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Oh dear, oh dear – politicalbetting.com

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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 52,941
    edited February 19

    On Topic

    SKS FANS PLEASE EXPLAIN

    On Ukraine

    Trump calls Zelenskyy a ‘dictator’ who should ‘move fast’ or lose country as row with Ukraine leader worsens

    VZ FANS PLEASE EXPLAIN

    BJO Fans please explain why we didn't have an election between 1935 and 1945.
    The Ukrainian Constitution specifically defers elections in a time of war, IIRC.

    And no, Zelensky didn’t write that bit.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,599

    I think I'm going to just focus on getting pissed again.

    World's gone mad.

    I’m not a big drinker so instead will watch the football and indulge in loads of unhealthy comfort food !
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 52,941

    On Topic

    SKS FANS PLEASE EXPLAIN

    On Ukraine

    Trump calls Zelenskyy a ‘dictator’ who should ‘move fast’ or lose country as row with Ukraine leader worsens

    VZ FANS PLEASE EXPLAIN

    BJO Fans please explain why we didn't have an election between 1935 and 1945.
    SWC fans please explain?
    You should be more concerned with the cokehead from Kiev's behaviour that is totally counter productive than asking explanations from 90 years ago.
    Interesting that you think repeating MAGA talking points is the way to go.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,793

    nico67 said:

    At least Starmers EU reset has been given a boost !

    How many sane Brits now think it’s a good idea to hitch your wagon to the US .

    We don't need to hitch wagons.

    We need to confidently lead in British interests as a nation that believes in itself.
    Too bloody right.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,911
    Nigelb said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    I think we now need to stop pretending that this guy has any noble intentions at heart here and it’s all just a clever negotiating ruse.

    The man clearly holds democratic Europe in distain and we should shape our policy accordingly.
    Maybe it's a little unfair to take the statements of someone with dementia at face value.
    I would just say and having had experience of dementia Trump is not suffering dementia but certainly is causing great concern across the west
    Maybe all those of us here with experience of dementia should take a vote on it.
    Having visited my dad in a care home for several years, I can only say that dementia symptoms seem to very considerably between individuals.
    And in the early stages, doctors aren't all that good at diagnosing it with any degree of certainty either.

    I've no idea either way with Trump. But I'm comfortable with the colloquial diagnosis of a screw loose.
    It's bad not mad, I think. He's a nasty nasty guy.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,793

    algarkirk said:

    Where exactly does the party leading in the polls stand on today's extraordinary events? At least I have an idea of where Lab and LDs stand; and where the Tories stand has ceased to matter much. But domestically where Reform stands matters a lot. I think it is silence so far.

    Kemi has put out a statement in support of Zelensky, Ukraine and increased defence spending

    Farage and Reform are silent and that cannot continue
    I thought Kemi got her statement about right.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,911

    Scott_xP said:

    @KemiBadenoch
    President Zelenskyy is not a dictator. He is the democratically elected leader of Ukraine who bravely stood up to Putin’s illegal invasion. Under my leadership, and under successive Conservative Prime Ministers, we have and always will stand with Ukraine.

    President Trump is right that Europe needs to pull its weight - and that includes the UK. We need to get serious. The PM will have my support to increase defence spending - there is a fully funded plan to get to 2.5% sitting on his desk. That should be the bare minimum. Starmer should get on with it, get on a plane to Washington and show some leadership. We cannot afford to get this wrong.

    That's something.
    Good to see Kemi confirming conservatives support for Ukraine in view of Trumps incendiary comments this pm , and seeking increased defence spending
    But note how she feels she has to include a prominent "President Trump is right that ..." para.

    It's a gangster dynamic he's established and it's totally deliberate.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 5,173

    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @KemiBadenoch
    President Zelenskyy is not a dictator. He is the democratically elected leader of Ukraine who bravely stood up to Putin’s illegal invasion. Under my leadership, and under successive Conservative Prime Ministers, we have and always will stand with Ukraine.

    President Trump is right that Europe needs to pull its weight - and that includes the UK. We need to get serious. The PM will have my support to increase defence spending - there is a fully funded plan to get to 2.5% sitting on his desk. That should be the bare minimum. Starmer should get on with it, get on a plane to Washington and show some leadership. We cannot afford to get this wrong.

    That's something.
    Good to see Kemi confirming conservatives support for Ukraine in view of Trumps incendiary comments this pm , and seeking increased defence spending
    Except she claims there is a fully funded plan to raise Defence spending to 2.5% - if you believe that I have a bridge to sell you.
    There has to be now though
    The obvious concern is that the notion of raising defence spending only lasts as long as the Government doesn't have to make a decision on who pays the bill.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,613
    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    Zelensky should visit the new German Chancellor, likely the more hardline anti Putin Merz, after the German elections next week then follow that with a visit to Beijing and Xi.

    He needs to show Trump cannot dictate peace terms to Ukraine with Putin but he has world powers also demanding he be involved
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,434
    TimS said:

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/1892261032870994064

    Vance warns Zelensky he will regret "badmouthing" Trump and condemns his "atrocious" response to peace talks — DailyMail

    Tell Trump to read up on his history: Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014 AND 2022, not the other way round.
    The Vance tweet is incredibly childish. Are these people 9 years old?
    They're not nine years old. They're brutes. Thugs. Or, to be more polite, people with a brutal realist view of power and how to apply it. And if we are to survive in this brave new world we have to do one of the following
    • i) fight: Get strong fast, build up the armed forces, compete as near-peers
    • ii) run/hide. Leave NATO et al and leave the world to its own devices
    • iii) kneel. Agree and obey Trump at every opportunity
    I hope for i). I fear iii). Looking at Starmer, Badenoch and Farage I believe iii) will come to pass. If anybody can offer me a better prognosis I will be pleased to listen... :(
  • Foxy said:

    I see 8% of Reform voters think Ukraine mostly or entirely responsible for the war, so the burger eating surrender monkey is not alone.

    https://bsky.app/profile/yougov.co.uk/post/3lik5xmervk26

    2% of Lib Dems think Ukraine are mostly responsible for the war

    All parties have their extremes
    Going off a couple of comments I'm getting on my YouTube I must be in the 0.2% of LibDems who isn't just pro Putin but is also pro-Nazi...
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,220
    Nigelb said:

    Do it.

    The European Union is considering the possibility of redirecting unused funds in the amount of €93 billion, intended for recovery from the coronavirus pandemic, to defense, - FT
    https://x.com/Maks_NAFO_FELLA/status/1892208656600408172

    Would that be the EU leadership can decide, QMV or Unanimity?

    TLDR: can Hungary stop it?

    I might be quite inclined to say send most of it straight to Ukraine not to EU members, if they like with a condition to spend on European or Ukrainian defence equipment.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,924
    nico67 said:

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/1892261032870994064

    Vance warns Zelensky he will regret "badmouthing" Trump and condemns his "atrocious" response to peace talks — DailyMail

    Tell Trump to read up on his history: Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014 AND 2022, not the other way round.
    Methinks The cokehead from Kiev is history.

    Perhaps SKS can change Trumps mind LOL
    Celebrating the fall of Zelenskyy is shameful.
    Not my fault its his.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,648
    These people cannot fuck far enough off

    @MrHarryCole
    Now Vance piles in on “disgraceful ” Zelensky — tells
    @RaheemKassam


    “The idea that he’s going to litigate his disagreements with the president in the public square…. This is not a good way to deal with President Trump”

    Adds: “Of course, the Ukrainians are going to have their perspective. The way to surface that is in a private discussion with American diplomats… he’s attacking the only reason this country exists, publicly, right now. And it’s disgraceful. And it’s not something that is going to move the President of the United States. In fact, it’s going to have the opposite effect.”
  • I think I'm going to just focus on getting pissed again.

    World's gone mad.

    Please stay off the Madri.

    It isn't worth it.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,468
    edited February 19
    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @KemiBadenoch
    President Zelenskyy is not a dictator. He is the democratically elected leader of Ukraine who bravely stood up to Putin’s illegal invasion. Under my leadership, and under successive Conservative Prime Ministers, we have and always will stand with Ukraine.

    President Trump is right that Europe needs to pull its weight - and that includes the UK. We need to get serious. The PM will have my support to increase defence spending - there is a fully funded plan to get to 2.5% sitting on his desk. That should be the bare minimum. Starmer should get on with it, get on a plane to Washington and show some leadership. We cannot afford to get this wrong.

    That's something.
    Good to see Kemi confirming conservatives support for Ukraine in view of Trumps incendiary comments this pm , and seeking increased defence spending
    But note how she feels she has to include a prominent "President Trump is right that ..." para.

    It's a gangster dynamic he's established and it's totally deliberate.
    Nothing Kemi said about Trump was anything but accurate and as a conservative I am pleased with her statement and of course, Farage and Reform look increasingly on the wrong side of history
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 5,173

    Scott_xP said:

    The Trump statement reads like somebody asked AI to write Putin talking points in the style of Trump

    A Russian-speaking friend, who keeps an eye on the Russian media, just asked me, "Why is Trump repeating the same wording as Russia uses?"
    Probably because he likes and agrees with Vladimir Putin. Putin has built the kind of autocracy to which Trump aspires.

    Lifting sanctions on Russia ought also to knock a couple of dollars off the price of a barrel of crude.


  • Eabhal said:

    JohnO said:

    Why has the Conservative Party remained mute on this unfolding nightmare?

    Why has it not expressed 100% support for Zelenskyy and Ukraine?

    (My email is bombarded daily with CCHQ crap, but nothing so far on something so existential. But maybe I’ve missed it).

    For some of us, it’s now make or break time with the party.

    Yes, quite.
    Why aren't they taking a hard line and putting pressure on Starmer over this? Are they seriously worried about the 37% of Reform voters who have an unfavourable view of Zelensky? Everyone else is massively in favour.
    Politically it would be the sensible thing to do and would be the kind of issue that could help them steal votes from Labour and the Lib Dems.
    I get the sincere impression that Kemi wants to ignore all of the geopolitics because its too hard & too divisive. Why get into Ukraine when you can fight a war against woke? The threat to people is bathrooms, not bombs...
    Don't forget the nice people who get church roofs fixed. They're just as bad.

    (Which of the voices in her head fed her that line? Has any politician ever risen to the top via a sucsessful fundraising campaign for St Edward's?)
    The omnishambles budget clobbered them with VAT. First George Osborne came for the pasty-eaters, then for ‘the Conservative Party at prayer’ maintaining their churches.
  • MJWMJW Posts: 1,958

    nico67 said:

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/1892261032870994064

    Vance warns Zelensky he will regret "badmouthing" Trump and condemns his "atrocious" response to peace talks — DailyMail

    Tell Trump to read up on his history: Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014 AND 2022, not the other way round.
    Methinks The cokehead from Kiev is history.

    Perhaps SKS can change Trumps mind LOL
    Celebrating the fall of Zelenskyy is shameful.
    Not my fault its his.
    A scumbag when backing Corbyn's antisemitism then, a scumbag backing Putin now.
  • Scott_xP said:

    @KemiBadenoch
    President Zelenskyy is not a dictator. He is the democratically elected leader of Ukraine who bravely stood up to Putin’s illegal invasion. Under my leadership, and under successive Conservative Prime Ministers, we have and always will stand with Ukraine.

    President Trump is right that Europe needs to pull its weight - and that includes the UK. We need to get serious. The PM will have my support to increase defence spending - there is a fully funded plan to get to 2.5% sitting on his desk. That should be the bare minimum. Starmer should get on with it, get on a plane to Washington and show some leadership. We cannot afford to get this wrong.

    That's something.
    Good to see Kemi confirming conservatives support for Ukraine in view of Trumps incendiary comments this pm , and seeking increased defence spending

    She has given unconditional backing to increased defence spending. Politically, that could turn out to matter a lot. Could the Tories now vote against a tax rise to fund it, for example?

  • eekeek Posts: 29,138

    Scott_xP said:

    The Trump statement reads like somebody asked AI to write Putin talking points in the style of Trump

    A Russian-speaking friend, who keeps an eye on the Russian media, just asked me, "Why is Trump repeating the same wording as Russia uses?"
    Because that is why Trump has got his Ukraine world view from...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 74,117
    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    Do it.

    The European Union is considering the possibility of redirecting unused funds in the amount of €93 billion, intended for recovery from the coronavirus pandemic, to defense, - FT
    https://x.com/Maks_NAFO_FELLA/status/1892208656600408172

    Would that be the EU leadership can decide, QMV or Unanimity?

    TLDR: can Hungary stop it?

    I might be quite inclined to say send most of it straight to Ukraine not to EU members, if they like with a condition to spend on European or Ukrainian defence equipment.
    I don't know; we'll see.
    Either way, they don't have long to make their minds up. Act now, or face irrelevance. Or worse.
  • Foxy said:

    I see 8% of Reform voters think Ukraine mostly or entirely responsible for the war, so the burger eating surrender monkey is not alone.

    https://bsky.app/profile/yougov.co.uk/post/3lik5xmervk26

    2% of Lib Dems think Ukraine are mostly responsible for the war

    All parties have their extremes
    Going off a couple of comments I'm getting on my YouTube I must be in the 0.2% of LibDems who isn't just pro Putin but is also pro-Nazi...
    There is always someone isn't there
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,169

    Foxy said:

    I see 8% of Reform voters think Ukraine mostly or entirely responsible for the war, so the burger eating surrender monkey is not alone.

    https://bsky.app/profile/yougov.co.uk/post/3lik5xmervk26

    But 92% of Reform voters don't?

    I hold no candle for Reform but let's not pretend they're exactly the same as the praetorian guard of MAGA.
    Only 67% think Russia entirely or mostly responsible for the war.

    Reform in noticeably more pro-putin than the other parties.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,613
    edited February 19
    While Conservative and Reform voters prefer nearly every former Conservative PM to Starmer in that Yougov poll, only Reform voters prefer Truss to Starmer with Tory voters split. Maybe a Liz defection to Farage on the cards?

    Labour voters unsurprisingly prefer Starmer to every former Tory PM as do LD voters except for where John Major is the alternative, they split evenly between Major and Starmer

    https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/51645-how-do-britons-feel-keir-starmer-compares-to-previous-prime-ministers
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,066

    nico67 said:

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/1892261032870994064

    Vance warns Zelensky he will regret "badmouthing" Trump and condemns his "atrocious" response to peace talks — DailyMail

    Tell Trump to read up on his history: Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014 AND 2022, not the other way round.
    Methinks The cokehead from Kiev is history.

    Perhaps SKS can change Trumps mind LOL
    Celebrating the fall of Zelenskyy is shameful.
    Not my fault its his.
    Nor is it our fault that you’re a fascist, Jew-hating, piece of shit.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,169

    Scott_xP said:

    The Trump statement reads like somebody asked AI to write Putin talking points in the style of Trump

    A Russian-speaking friend, who keeps an eye on the Russian media, just asked me, "Why is Trump repeating the same wording as Russia uses?"
    If Trump really was a Russian agent what more would he do?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,434

    Foxy said:

    I see 8% of Reform voters think Ukraine mostly or entirely responsible for the war, so the burger eating surrender monkey is not alone.

    https://bsky.app/profile/yougov.co.uk/post/3lik5xmervk26

    2% of Lib Dems think Ukraine are mostly responsible for the war

    All parties have their extremes
    Going off a couple of comments I'm getting on my YouTube I must be in the 0.2% of LibDems who isn't just pro Putin but is also pro-Nazi...
    JustBuyAMercedesBenz770
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 74,117
    From a few days back.

    Spain reverses nuclear phase-out plans
    https://www.neimagazine.com/news/spain-reverses-nuclear-phase-out-plans/
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,648
    This fucking clown should pipe down as well

    @BorisJohnson
    When are we Europeans going to stop being scandalised about Donald Trump and start helping him to end this war?

    Of course Ukraine didn’t start the war. You might as well say that America attacked Japan at Pearl Harbor.

    Of course a country undergoing a violent invasion should not be staging elections. There was no general election in the UK from 1935 to 1945.

    Of course Zelenskyy’s ratings are not 4%. They are actually about the same as Trump’s.

    Trump’s statements are not intended to be historically accurate but to shock Europeans into action.

    In particular the US can see $300bn of frozen Russian assets - mainly in Belgium. That is cash that could and should be used to pay Ukraine and compensate the US for its support.

    Why is Europe preventing the unfreezing of Putin’s cash?

    The US believes Belgium, France and other countries are blocking. It’s absurd. We need to get serious and fast.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,868

    algarkirk said:

    Where exactly does the party leading in the polls stand on today's extraordinary events? At least I have an idea of where Lab and LDs stand; and where the Tories stand has ceased to matter much. But domestically where Reform stands matters a lot. I think it is silence so far.

    Kemi has put out a statement in support of Zelensky, Ukraine and increased defence spending

    Farage and Reform are silent and that cannot continue
    Nigel must feel he's in a frightful bind. He's been dining out on his friendship with Donald for years, but must know Donald will terminate it in a jiffy at the slightest hint of disloyalty. It's not as if Donald would even grant him some leeway for tactical reasons - it's either slavish loyalty with Donald or you're a sworn enemy. What to do?
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 4,160

    On Topic

    SKS FANS PLEASE EXPLAIN

    On Ukraine

    Trump calls Zelenskyy a ‘dictator’ who should ‘move fast’ or lose country as row with Ukraine leader worsens

    VZ FANS PLEASE EXPLAIN

    BJO Fans please explain why we didn't have an election between 1935 and 1945.
    SWC fans please explain?
    You should be more concerned with the cokehead from Kiev's behaviour that is totally counter productive than asking explanations from 90 years ago.
    I've flagged you for disgusting comments
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,081
    edited February 19
    viewcode said:

    TimS said:

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/1892261032870994064

    Vance warns Zelensky he will regret "badmouthing" Trump and condemns his "atrocious" response to peace talks — DailyMail

    Tell Trump to read up on his history: Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014 AND 2022, not the other way round.
    The Vance tweet is incredibly childish. Are these people 9 years old?
    They're not nine years old. They're brutes. Thugs. Or, to be more polite, people with a brutal realist view of power and how to apply it. And if we are to survive in this brave new world we have to do one of the following
    • i) fight: Get strong fast, build up the armed forces, compete as near-peers
    • ii) run/hide. Leave NATO et al and leave the world to its own devices
    • iii) kneel. Agree and obey Trump at every opportunity
    I hope for i). I fear iii). Looking at Starmer, Badenoch and Farage I believe iii) will come to pass. If anybody can offer me a better prognosis I will be pleased to listen... :(
    ii is a possibility for several currently very quiet Southern and Western European countries, and they’re in an enviable position in that respect, though not a particularly honourable one.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,722
    Scott_xP said:

    This fucking clown should pipe down as well

    @BorisJohnson
    When are we Europeans going to stop being scandalised about Donald Trump and start helping him to end this war?

    Of course Ukraine didn’t start the war. You might as well say that America attacked Japan at Pearl Harbor.

    Of course a country undergoing a violent invasion should not be staging elections. There was no general election in the UK from 1935 to 1945.

    Of course Zelenskyy’s ratings are not 4%. They are actually about the same as Trump’s.

    Trump’s statements are not intended to be historically accurate but to shock Europeans into action.

    In particular the US can see $300bn of frozen Russian assets - mainly in Belgium. That is cash that could and should be used to pay Ukraine and compensate the US for its support.

    Why is Europe preventing the unfreezing of Putin’s cash?

    The US believes Belgium, France and other countries are blocking. It’s absurd. We need to get serious and fast.

    When governments lie to people to get their way, as was his policy, it corrodes and degrades us all.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,125
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    I see 8% of Reform voters think Ukraine mostly or entirely responsible for the war, so the burger eating surrender monkey is not alone.

    https://bsky.app/profile/yougov.co.uk/post/3lik5xmervk26

    But 92% of Reform voters don't?

    I hold no candle for Reform but let's not pretend they're exactly the same as the praetorian guard of MAGA.
    Only 67% think Russia entirely or mostly responsible for the war.

    Reform in noticeably more pro-putin than the other parties.
    Presumably because they get their information from an online right wing echo chamber heavily shaped by Russian psyops operations.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,911
    Scott_xP said:

    These people cannot fuck far enough off

    @MrHarryCole
    Now Vance piles in on “disgraceful ” Zelensky — tells
    @RaheemKassam


    “The idea that he’s going to litigate his disagreements with the president in the public square…. This is not a good way to deal with President Trump”

    Adds: “Of course, the Ukrainians are going to have their perspective. The way to surface that is in a private discussion with American diplomats… he’s attacking the only reason this country exists, publicly, right now. And it’s disgraceful. And it’s not something that is going to move the President of the United States. In fact, it’s going to have the opposite effect.”

    But Trump can smear and slag off anybody and that's just fine.
  • Scott_xP said:

    @KemiBadenoch
    President Zelenskyy is not a dictator. He is the democratically elected leader of Ukraine who bravely stood up to Putin’s illegal invasion. Under my leadership, and under successive Conservative Prime Ministers, we have and always will stand with Ukraine.

    President Trump is right that Europe needs to pull its weight - and that includes the UK. We need to get serious. The PM will have my support to increase defence spending - there is a fully funded plan to get to 2.5% sitting on his desk. That should be the bare minimum. Starmer should get on with it, get on a plane to Washington and show some leadership. We cannot afford to get this wrong.

    That's something.
    Good to see Kemi confirming conservatives support for Ukraine in view of Trumps incendiary comments this pm , and seeking increased defence spending

    She has given unconditional backing to increased defence spending. Politically, that could turn out to matter a lot. Could the Tories now vote against a tax rise to fund it, for example?

    The problem with any tax rise is it is rare to be hypotecated and of course there are many different taxes, but we are approaching the time to address the tax and ni unfairness on the workers and increase taxes for those on unearned incomes

    But then, everyone is happy for tax rises as long as it is not them

    I have just noticed to add to the problems gilts seem to be rising
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,861

    I think I'm going to just focus on getting pissed again.

    World's gone mad.

    Please stay off the Madri.

    It isn't worth it.
    Pinot Noir.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,648
    edited February 19
    Musk wants to kick "retard" Zelensky off Twitter

    https://bsky.app/profile/paulsingh.bsky.social/post/3likeokj7rc2f
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,434
    Scott_xP said:

    @Mike_Pence
    Mr. President, Ukraine did not “start” this war. Russia launched an unprovoked and brutal invasion claiming hundreds of thousands of lives. The Road to Peace must be built on the Truth.🇺🇸🇺🇦

    “Russia Invades Ukraine in Largest European Attack Since WWII”

    https://x.com/Mike_Pence/status/1892271536394162229

    I'm beginning to really like him.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 5,173

    Scott_xP said:

    @KemiBadenoch
    President Zelenskyy is not a dictator. He is the democratically elected leader of Ukraine who bravely stood up to Putin’s illegal invasion. Under my leadership, and under successive Conservative Prime Ministers, we have and always will stand with Ukraine.

    President Trump is right that Europe needs to pull its weight - and that includes the UK. We need to get serious. The PM will have my support to increase defence spending - there is a fully funded plan to get to 2.5% sitting on his desk. That should be the bare minimum. Starmer should get on with it, get on a plane to Washington and show some leadership. We cannot afford to get this wrong.

    That's something.
    Good to see Kemi confirming conservatives support for Ukraine in view of Trumps incendiary comments this pm , and seeking increased defence spending

    She has given unconditional backing to increased defence spending. Politically, that could turn out to matter a lot. Could the Tories now vote against a tax rise to fund it, for example?

    Easily. They can demand defence be funded through cuts instead (provided, as always, that they that they don't affect the state pension, property or other assets - disability benefits and universal credit are the obvious targets.)
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,861
    Foss said:
    We need to know where it plans to land, and the convene a "conference" of the delinquent world leaders in the right place, at just the right time...
  • Scott_xP said:

    Musk wants to kick "retard" Zelensky off Twitter

    https://bsky.app/profile/paulsingh.bsky.social/post/3likeokj7rc2f

    Elon Musk = Leon Skum
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,648
    viewcode said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @Mike_Pence
    Mr. President, Ukraine did not “start” this war. Russia launched an unprovoked and brutal invasion claiming hundreds of thousands of lives. The Road to Peace must be built on the Truth.🇺🇸🇺🇦

    “Russia Invades Ukraine in Largest European Attack Since WWII”

    https://x.com/Mike_Pence/status/1892271536394162229

    I'm beginning to really like him.
    When the book of Trump is written, he will be a hero
  • On Topic

    SKS FANS PLEASE EXPLAIN

    On Ukraine

    Trump calls Zelenskyy a ‘dictator’ who should ‘move fast’ or lose country as row with Ukraine leader worsens

    VZ FANS PLEASE EXPLAIN

    BJO Fans please explain why we didn't have an election between 1935 and 1945.
    SWC fans please explain?
    You should be more concerned with the cokehead from Kiev's behaviour that is totally counter productive than asking explanations from 90 years ago.
    I've flagged you for disgusting comments
    I do not like flagging but @bigjohnowls has been utterly disgusting and is out of order
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,648

    Foss said:
    We need to know where it plans to land, and the convene a "conference" of the delinquent world leaders in the right place, at just the right time...
    Trump is apparently frustrated by delays to the replacement Air Force One jets.

    Musk has offered to speed up the process, by eliminating things like safety checks.

    Go ahead lads. Have at it. Soon as you like...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 52,941
    Scott_xP said:

    viewcode said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @Mike_Pence
    Mr. President, Ukraine did not “start” this war. Russia launched an unprovoked and brutal invasion claiming hundreds of thousands of lives. The Road to Peace must be built on the Truth.🇺🇸🇺🇦

    “Russia Invades Ukraine in Largest European Attack Since WWII”

    https://x.com/Mike_Pence/status/1892271536394162229

    I'm beginning to really like him.
    When the book of Trump is written, he will be a hero
    Er no. He was a shill who jumped ship.

    It took a phone call to Potato Boy to get Pence to do the right thing.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 74,117
    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    These people cannot fuck far enough off

    @MrHarryCole
    Now Vance piles in on “disgraceful ” Zelensky — tells
    @RaheemKassam


    “The idea that he’s going to litigate his disagreements with the president in the public square…. This is not a good way to deal with President Trump”

    Adds: “Of course, the Ukrainians are going to have their perspective. The way to surface that is in a private discussion with American diplomats… he’s attacking the only reason this country exists, publicly, right now. And it’s disgraceful. And it’s not something that is going to move the President of the United States. In fact, it’s going to have the opposite effect.”

    But Trump can smear and slag off anybody and that's just fine.
    Shorter Vance:
    "Pipe down while we sell you out."
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,861
    Scott_xP said:

    viewcode said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @Mike_Pence
    Mr. President, Ukraine did not “start” this war. Russia launched an unprovoked and brutal invasion claiming hundreds of thousands of lives. The Road to Peace must be built on the Truth.🇺🇸🇺🇦

    “Russia Invades Ukraine in Largest European Attack Since WWII”

    https://x.com/Mike_Pence/status/1892271536394162229

    I'm beginning to really like him.
    When the book of Trump is written, he will be a hero
    "Don't sit on the fence", by Mike Pence.
  • algarkirk said:

    Where exactly does the party leading in the polls stand on today's extraordinary events? At least I have an idea of where Lab and LDs stand; and where the Tories stand has ceased to matter much. But domestically where Reform stands matters a lot. I think it is silence so far.

    Kemi has put out a statement in support of Zelensky, Ukraine and increased defence spending

    Farage and Reform are silent and that cannot continue
    Nigel must feel he's in a frightful bind. He's been dining out on his friendship with Donald for years, but must know Donald will terminate it in a jiffy at the slightest hint of disloyalty. It's not as if Donald would even grant him some leeway for tactical reasons - it's either slavish loyalty with Donald or you're a sworn enemy. What to do?
    Whatever he decides, he has about forty minutes until he's on GB News to tell... not everyone, but a few thousand viewers.

    I'm sure that Mr Tell-It-Like-It-Is will have something to say.
  • glwglw Posts: 10,169

    Scott_xP said:

    The Trump statement reads like somebody asked AI to write Putin talking points in the style of Trump

    A Russian-speaking friend, who keeps an eye on the Russian media, just asked me, "Why is Trump repeating the same wording as Russia uses?"
    In all likelihood Trump doesn't read anything that says otherwise. He's vastly more likely to read promoted comments on social media, like Truth Social and Twitter that both swing heavily MAGA/Russia, than mere trifles like the top secret Daily Presidential Brief. In fact we know that's beyond him because we've been told the intelligence agencies had to dumb it down before.

    So the US President is manipulated or disinformed by social media like many of his followers, and you can be certain that all sorts of malign actors bend his ear, and those of his associates, as well.
  • pigeon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @KemiBadenoch
    President Zelenskyy is not a dictator. He is the democratically elected leader of Ukraine who bravely stood up to Putin’s illegal invasion. Under my leadership, and under successive Conservative Prime Ministers, we have and always will stand with Ukraine.

    President Trump is right that Europe needs to pull its weight - and that includes the UK. We need to get serious. The PM will have my support to increase defence spending - there is a fully funded plan to get to 2.5% sitting on his desk. That should be the bare minimum. Starmer should get on with it, get on a plane to Washington and show some leadership. We cannot afford to get this wrong.

    That's something.
    Good to see Kemi confirming conservatives support for Ukraine in view of Trumps incendiary comments this pm , and seeking increased defence spending

    She has given unconditional backing to increased defence spending. Politically, that could turn out to matter a lot. Could the Tories now vote against a tax rise to fund it, for example?

    Easily. They can demand defence be funded through cuts instead (provided, as always, that they that they don't affect the state pension, property or other assets - disability benefits and universal credit are the obvious targets.)

    Yes, they could. I am not sure the politics of it works, though. Saying you will back increased defence spending and then opposing it does not look great.

  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,014
    edited February 19

    Trump fans please explain!

    There's clearly some personal dislike for Zelensky. Maybe as someone who has always steered clear of drink and drugs, Trump doesn't like the rumours about Zelensky's habit.
    That is truly pathetic even by your standards as one of the few Trump apologists on PB.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,470

    I think I'm going to just focus on getting pissed again.

    World's gone mad.

    Please stay off the Madri.

    It isn't worth it.
    One of my colleagues genuinely believes that they've been drinking it in Madrid for decades. Bless.
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,077
    OllyT said:

    Trump fans please explain!

    There's clearly some personal dislike for Zelensky. Maybe as someone who has always steered clear of drink and drugs, Trump doesn't like the rumours about Zelensky's habit.
    That is truly pathetic even by your standards as one of the few Trump apologists on PB.
    @williamglenn is the site’s clown and a little sh*t. Nothing more, nothing less…
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,436
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    I see 8% of Reform voters think Ukraine mostly or entirely responsible for the war, so the burger eating surrender monkey is not alone.

    https://bsky.app/profile/yougov.co.uk/post/3lik5xmervk26

    But 92% of Reform voters don't?

    I hold no candle for Reform but let's not pretend they're exactly the same as the praetorian guard of MAGA.
    Only 67% think Russia entirely or mostly responsible for the war.

    Reform in noticeably more pro-putin than the other parties.
    Russia isn’t entirely responsible for the war

    NATO and the West promised not to push NATO to the frontiers of Russia, then we did exactly that. Then we wrestled over Ukraine itself, part of which is regarded as sacred Russia by Russians

    Is Putin an evil murderous autocrat who launched a barbarous invasion causing a European tragedy and killing half a million purple? Yes yes yes. Does the west have *some* responsibility for stupidly goading and mishandling Russia? Also yes
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 52,941
    a

    I think I'm going to just focus on getting pissed again.

    World's gone mad.

    Please stay off the Madri.

    It isn't worth it.
    One of my colleagues genuinely believes that they've been drinking it in Madrid for decades. Bless.
    Order a Stinger instead.

    I’ve made it a mission to reintroduce them in as many cocktail bars as I can.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,722
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    I see 8% of Reform voters think Ukraine mostly or entirely responsible for the war, so the burger eating surrender monkey is not alone.

    https://bsky.app/profile/yougov.co.uk/post/3lik5xmervk26

    But 92% of Reform voters don't?

    I hold no candle for Reform but let's not pretend they're exactly the same as the praetorian guard of MAGA.
    Only 67% think Russia entirely or mostly responsible for the war.

    Reform in noticeably more pro-putin than the other parties.
    Russia isn’t entirely responsible for the war

    NATO and the West promised not to push NATO to the frontiers of Russia, then we did exactly that. Then we wrestled over Ukraine itself, part of which is regarded as sacred Russia by Russians

    Is Putin an evil murderous autocrat who launched a barbarous invasion causing a European tragedy and killing half a million purple? Yes yes yes. Does the west have *some* responsibility for stupidly goading and mishandling Russia? Also yes
    The soldiers just wandered into Ukraine on their own.

    You probably think pronouns justify a Russian invasion of the EU.
  • Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    I see 8% of Reform voters think Ukraine mostly or entirely responsible for the war, so the burger eating surrender monkey is not alone.

    https://bsky.app/profile/yougov.co.uk/post/3lik5xmervk26

    But 92% of Reform voters don't?

    I hold no candle for Reform but let's not pretend they're exactly the same as the praetorian guard of MAGA.
    Only 67% think Russia entirely or mostly responsible for the war.

    Reform in noticeably more pro-putin than the other parties.
    Russia isn’t entirely responsible for the war

    NATO and the West promised not to push NATO to the frontiers of Russia, then we did exactly that. Then we wrestled over Ukraine itself, part of which is regarded as sacred Russia by Russians

    Is Putin an evil murderous autocrat who launched a barbarous invasion causing a European tragedy and killing half a million purple? Yes yes yes. Does the west have *some* responsibility for stupidly goading and mishandling Russia? Also yes
    So does Putin have a right to invade Blighty for being a member of NATO?
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 5,173
    edited February 19
    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    These people cannot fuck far enough off

    @MrHarryCole
    Now Vance piles in on “disgraceful ” Zelensky — tells
    @RaheemKassam


    “The idea that he’s going to litigate his disagreements with the president in the public square…. This is not a good way to deal with President Trump”

    Adds: “Of course, the Ukrainians are going to have their perspective. The way to surface that is in a private discussion with American diplomats… he’s attacking the only reason this country exists, publicly, right now. And it’s disgraceful. And it’s not something that is going to move the President of the United States. In fact, it’s going to have the opposite effect.”

    But Trump can smear and slag off anybody and that's just fine.
    Trump and his acolytes like to slap America's ex-allies about the face. They don't treat the autocrats like that. By their friends shall ye know them.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,775
    Scott_xP said:

    This fucking clown should pipe down as well

    @BorisJohnson
    When are we Europeans going to stop being scandalised about Donald Trump and start helping him to end this war?

    Of course Ukraine didn’t start the war. You might as well say that America attacked Japan at Pearl Harbor.

    Of course a country undergoing a violent invasion should not be staging elections. There was no general election in the UK from 1935 to 1945.

    Of course Zelenskyy’s ratings are not 4%. They are actually about the same as Trump’s.

    Trump’s statements are not intended to be historically accurate but to shock Europeans into action.

    In particular the US can see $300bn of frozen Russian assets - mainly in Belgium. That is cash that could and should be used to pay Ukraine and compensate the US for its support.

    Why is Europe preventing the unfreezing of Putin’s cash?

    The US believes Belgium, France and other countries are blocking. It’s absurd. We need to get serious and fast.

    Man, that’s going to be my go to excuse when caught out.

    My suggestion that the dog was responsible for that dreadful fart was not intended to be historically accurate.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 386

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/1892261032870994064

    Vance warns Zelensky he will regret "badmouthing" Trump and condemns his "atrocious" response to peace talks — DailyMail

    To the tune of the Godfather.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 9,538

    Scott_xP said:

    @KemiBadenoch
    President Zelenskyy is not a dictator. He is the democratically elected leader of Ukraine who bravely stood up to Putin’s illegal invasion. Under my leadership, and under successive Conservative Prime Ministers, we have and always will stand with Ukraine.

    President Trump is right that Europe needs to pull its weight - and that includes the UK. We need to get serious. The PM will have my support to increase defence spending - there is a fully funded plan to get to 2.5% sitting on his desk. That should be the bare minimum. Starmer should get on with it, get on a plane to Washington and show some leadership. We cannot afford to get this wrong.

    That's something.
    Good to see Kemi confirming conservatives support for Ukraine in view of Trumps incendiary comments this pm , and seeking increased defence spending

    She has given unconditional backing to increased defence spending. Politically, that could turn out to matter a lot. Could the Tories now vote against a tax rise to fund it, for example?

    The problem with any tax rise is it is rare to be hypotecated and of course there are many different taxes, but we are approaching the time to address the tax and ni unfairness on the workers and increase taxes for those on unearned incomes

    But then, everyone is happy for tax rises as long as it is not them

    I have just noticed to add to the problems gilts seem to be rising

    Gilts are rising across Europe in anticipation of defence bonds. They do look like the best option as things stand. If we are serious about our defence, if we really do believe in the Blitz spirit stuff, we are all going to have accept a hit. Our grandparents sacrificed a hell of a lot more than it will cost us.

    I still don't understand this. What's the point in increase defence spending when there is no appetite to ever use it? We've had Salisbury, Ukraine, MH17, cables in the Baltic and we've done nothing at all.

    I think this sudden interest in increasing spending is a displacement activity, designed to make people feel good while having zero effect on Russia (but costing us billions).
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,470
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    I see 8% of Reform voters think Ukraine mostly or entirely responsible for the war, so the burger eating surrender monkey is not alone.

    https://bsky.app/profile/yougov.co.uk/post/3lik5xmervk26

    But 92% of Reform voters don't?

    I hold no candle for Reform but let's not pretend they're exactly the same as the praetorian guard of MAGA.
    Only 67% think Russia entirely or mostly responsible for the war.

    Reform in noticeably more pro-putin than the other parties.
    Russia isn’t entirely responsible for the war

    NATO and the West promised not to push NATO to the frontiers of Russia, then we did exactly that. Then we wrestled over Ukraine itself, part of which is regarded as sacred Russia by Russians

    Is Putin an evil murderous autocrat who launched a barbarous invasion causing a European tragedy and killing half a million purple? Yes yes yes. Does the west have *some* responsibility for stupidly goading and mishandling Russia? Also yes
    Bollocks we do.

    I'm surprised that you're able to post this evening after the unsavoury incident at the Raducanu match. I assume that was you?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,607
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    I see 8% of Reform voters think Ukraine mostly or entirely responsible for the war, so the burger eating surrender monkey is not alone.

    https://bsky.app/profile/yougov.co.uk/post/3lik5xmervk26

    But 92% of Reform voters don't?

    I hold no candle for Reform but let's not pretend they're exactly the same as the praetorian guard of MAGA.
    Only 67% think Russia entirely or mostly responsible for the war.

    Reform in noticeably more pro-putin than the other parties.
    Russia isn’t entirely responsible for the war

    NATO and the West promised not to push NATO to the frontiers of Russia, then we did exactly that. Then we wrestled over Ukraine itself, part of which is regarded as sacred Russia by Russians

    Is Putin an evil murderous autocrat who launched a barbarous invasion causing a European tragedy and killing half a million purple? Yes yes yes. Does the west have *some* responsibility for stupidly goading and mishandling Russia? Also yes
    "NATO and the West promised not to push NATO to the frontiers of Russia,"

    Is that actually the case? In which treaty or agreement is it mentioned?
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,955

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    I think we now need to stop pretending that this guy has any noble intentions at heart here and it’s all just a clever negotiating ruse.

    The man clearly holds democratic Europe in distain and we should shape our policy accordingly.
    Although the implication that a “modestly successful comedian” could talk the US into giving him $350bn gives the rest of us some hope…
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,924
    Zelenskyy may not have singlehandedly have canceled elections, but he definitely banned opposition parties, jailed critics, and shut down media he didn’t like but sure, let’s pretend he’s a beacon of democracy.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,395
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    I see 8% of Reform voters think Ukraine mostly or entirely responsible for the war, so the burger eating surrender monkey is not alone.

    https://bsky.app/profile/yougov.co.uk/post/3lik5xmervk26

    But 92% of Reform voters don't?

    I hold no candle for Reform but let's not pretend they're exactly the same as the praetorian guard of MAGA.
    Only 67% think Russia entirely or mostly responsible for the war.

    Reform in noticeably more pro-putin than the other parties.
    Russia isn’t entirely responsible for the war

    NATO and the West promised not to push NATO to the frontiers of Russia, then we did exactly that. Then we wrestled over Ukraine itself, part of which is regarded as sacred Russia by Russians

    Is Putin an evil murderous autocrat who launched a barbarous invasion causing a European tragedy and killing half a million purple? Yes yes yes. Does the west have *some* responsibility for stupidly goading and mishandling Russia? Also yes
    I didn't get round to replying to your previous post due to work. But it is worth pointing out that Kyiv has only been Russian since 1709. Before that it was Polish, and before that Lithuanian. Kyivan Rus broke up in the 11th century and then the assorted Slav grand duchies and principalities were occupied by Lithuania and then the Rzeczpospolita in the West, and the Golden Horse in the East. Which was the beginning of the cultural divide between Ukraine and Muscovy. To give any credence to the idea that Kyiv is the foundation stone of Russian culture is presposterous.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,861
    murali_s said:

    OllyT said:

    Trump fans please explain!

    There's clearly some personal dislike for Zelensky. Maybe as someone who has always steered clear of drink and drugs, Trump doesn't like the rumours about Zelensky's habit.
    That is truly pathetic even by your standards as one of the few Trump apologists on PB.
    @williamglenn is the site’s clown and a little sh*t. Nothing more, nothing less…
    Why do you two always wade in to put a nasty boot in from the left-wing to anyone who doesn't share your politics?

    Rather unedifying, to say the least.

    William is a professional devil's advocate. We don't need the abuse.
  • glwglw Posts: 10,169

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    I see 8% of Reform voters think Ukraine mostly or entirely responsible for the war, so the burger eating surrender monkey is not alone.

    https://bsky.app/profile/yougov.co.uk/post/3lik5xmervk26

    But 92% of Reform voters don't?

    I hold no candle for Reform but let's not pretend they're exactly the same as the praetorian guard of MAGA.
    Only 67% think Russia entirely or mostly responsible for the war.

    Reform in noticeably more pro-putin than the other parties.
    Russia isn’t entirely responsible for the war

    NATO and the West promised not to push NATO to the frontiers of Russia, then we did exactly that. Then we wrestled over Ukraine itself, part of which is regarded as sacred Russia by Russians

    Is Putin an evil murderous autocrat who launched a barbarous invasion causing a European tragedy and killing half a million purple? Yes yes yes. Does the west have *some* responsibility for stupidly goading and mishandling Russia? Also yes
    "NATO and the West promised not to push NATO to the frontiers of Russia,"

    Is that actually the case? In which treaty or agreement is it mentioned?
    No, it's another Russian lie. Frankly it should even need refuting, about 1 seconds thought ought to be enough to realise that NATO would never give Russia a veto on expansion, because if NATO did so Russia would block all expansion.

    https://www.nato.int/cps/ra/natohq/115204.htm

  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,618

    Zelenskyy may not have singlehandedly have canceled elections, but he definitely banned opposition parties, jailed critics, and shut down media he didn’t like but sure, let’s pretend he’s a beacon of democracy.

    Wait until you find out what Churchill and Chamberlain did in WW2…
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,395

    Zelenskyy may not have singlehandedly have canceled elections, but he definitely banned opposition parties, jailed critics, and shut down media he didn’t like but sure, let’s pretend he’s a beacon of democracy.

    He doesn't have to be. I'm happy with him killing more Russians, preferably until their army collapses
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,395

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    I see 8% of Reform voters think Ukraine mostly or entirely responsible for the war, so the burger eating surrender monkey is not alone.

    https://bsky.app/profile/yougov.co.uk/post/3lik5xmervk26

    But 92% of Reform voters don't?

    I hold no candle for Reform but let's not pretend they're exactly the same as the praetorian guard of MAGA.
    Only 67% think Russia entirely or mostly responsible for the war.

    Reform in noticeably more pro-putin than the other parties.
    Russia isn’t entirely responsible for the war

    NATO and the West promised not to push NATO to the frontiers of Russia, then we did exactly that. Then we wrestled over Ukraine itself, part of which is regarded as sacred Russia by Russians

    Is Putin an evil murderous autocrat who launched a barbarous invasion causing a European tragedy and killing half a million purple? Yes yes yes. Does the west have *some* responsibility for stupidly goading and mishandling Russia? Also yes
    "NATO and the West promised not to push NATO to the frontiers of Russia,"

    Is that actually the case? In which treaty or agreement is it mentioned?
    Gorbachev denied that the promise was ever made
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,435
    Eabhal said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @KemiBadenoch
    President Zelenskyy is not a dictator. He is the democratically elected leader of Ukraine who bravely stood up to Putin’s illegal invasion. Under my leadership, and under successive Conservative Prime Ministers, we have and always will stand with Ukraine.

    President Trump is right that Europe needs to pull its weight - and that includes the UK. We need to get serious. The PM will have my support to increase defence spending - there is a fully funded plan to get to 2.5% sitting on his desk. That should be the bare minimum. Starmer should get on with it, get on a plane to Washington and show some leadership. We cannot afford to get this wrong.

    That's something.
    Good to see Kemi confirming conservatives support for Ukraine in view of Trumps incendiary comments this pm , and seeking increased defence spending

    She has given unconditional backing to increased defence spending. Politically, that could turn out to matter a lot. Could the Tories now vote against a tax rise to fund it, for example?

    The problem with any tax rise is it is rare to be hypotecated and of course there are many different taxes, but we are approaching the time to address the tax and ni unfairness on the workers and increase taxes for those on unearned incomes

    But then, everyone is happy for tax rises as long as it is not them

    I have just noticed to add to the problems gilts seem to be rising

    Gilts are rising across Europe in anticipation of defence bonds. They do look like the best option as things stand. If we are serious about our defence, if we really do believe in the Blitz spirit stuff, we are all going to have accept a hit. Our grandparents sacrificed a hell of a lot more than it will cost us.

    I still don't understand this. What's the point in increase defence spending when there is no appetite to ever use it? We've had Salisbury, Ukraine, MH17, cables in the Baltic and we've done nothing at all.

    I think this sudden interest in increasing spending is a displacement activity, designed to make people feel good while having zero effect on Russia (but costing us billions).
    The world of tomorrow may not be the world of yesterday.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,825

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    I think we now need to stop pretending that this guy has any noble intentions at heart here and it’s all just a clever negotiating ruse.

    The man clearly holds democratic Europe in distain and we should shape our policy accordingly.
    Although the implication that a “modestly successful comedian” could talk the US into giving him $350bn gives the rest of us some hope…
    Imagine he was actually a really successful comedian. Could get that into the trillions.
  • sladeslade Posts: 2,114
    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The Trump statement reads like somebody asked AI to write Putin talking points in the style of Trump

    A Russian-speaking friend, who keeps an eye on the Russian media, just asked me, "Why is Trump repeating the same wording as Russia uses?"
    If Trump really was a Russian agent what more would he do?
    As well as Trump what about Hegseth and Gabbard?
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,599
    Perhaps the ridiculous idea spouted by the new Trump loving Mandelson of another state visit will bite the dust now !
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,435

    murali_s said:

    OllyT said:

    Trump fans please explain!

    There's clearly some personal dislike for Zelensky. Maybe as someone who has always steered clear of drink and drugs, Trump doesn't like the rumours about Zelensky's habit.
    That is truly pathetic even by your standards as one of the few Trump apologists on PB.
    @williamglenn is the site’s clown and a little sh*t. Nothing more, nothing less…
    Why do you two always wade in to put a nasty boot in from the left-wing to anyone who doesn't share your politics?

    Rather unedifying, to say the least.

    William is a professional devil's advocate. We don't need the abuse.
    Amateur devil's advocate, surely?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,607

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    I see 8% of Reform voters think Ukraine mostly or entirely responsible for the war, so the burger eating surrender monkey is not alone.

    https://bsky.app/profile/yougov.co.uk/post/3lik5xmervk26

    But 92% of Reform voters don't?

    I hold no candle for Reform but let's not pretend they're exactly the same as the praetorian guard of MAGA.
    Only 67% think Russia entirely or mostly responsible for the war.

    Reform in noticeably more pro-putin than the other parties.
    Russia isn’t entirely responsible for the war

    NATO and the West promised not to push NATO to the frontiers of Russia, then we did exactly that. Then we wrestled over Ukraine itself, part of which is regarded as sacred Russia by Russians

    Is Putin an evil murderous autocrat who launched a barbarous invasion causing a European tragedy and killing half a million purple? Yes yes yes. Does the west have *some* responsibility for stupidly goading and mishandling Russia? Also yes
    "NATO and the West promised not to push NATO to the frontiers of Russia,"

    Is that actually the case? In which treaty or agreement is it mentioned?
    Gorbachev denied that the promise was ever made
    I know, which was why I asked the question.

    It does sound like there was some discussion at one meeting back in the early nineties, but that's very different from a signed-and-sealed agreement or treaty. Especially given Russia's imperialist behaviour since.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 4,160

    Zelenskyy may not have singlehandedly have canceled elections, but he definitely banned opposition parties, jailed critics, and shut down media he didn’t like but sure, let’s pretend he’s a beacon of democracy.

    putin apologist!!
  • Just to add to the depression what happens next week if Germany elect a right leadership with AFD support ?

    Just extraordinary times we are living through
  • Zelenskyy may not have singlehandedly have canceled elections, but he definitely banned opposition parties, jailed critics, and shut down media he didn’t like but sure, let’s pretend he’s a beacon of democracy.

    putin apologist!!
    After today you have to ask the difference between Trump and Putin as I cannot detect any at all
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,077

    murali_s said:

    OllyT said:

    Trump fans please explain!

    There's clearly some personal dislike for Zelensky. Maybe as someone who has always steered clear of drink and drugs, Trump doesn't like the rumours about Zelensky's habit.
    That is truly pathetic even by your standards as one of the few Trump apologists on PB.
    @williamglenn is the site’s clown and a little sh*t. Nothing more, nothing less…
    Why do you two always wade in to put a nasty boot in from the left-wing to anyone who doesn't share your politics?

    Rather unedifying, to say the least.

    William is a professional devil's advocate. We don't need the abuse.
    If it a parody account then I apologise, if not then everything I have said about him holds…
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,599

    Just to add to the depression what happens next week if Germany elect a right leadership with AFD support ?

    Just extraordinary times we are living through

    The AFD are likely to come second but there’s no way the likely winners the CDU will do any deal with them to form a government.

  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 386
    Scott_xP said:

    @Mike_Pence
    Mr. President, Ukraine did not “start” this war. Russia launched an unprovoked and brutal invasion claiming hundreds of thousands of lives. The Road to Peace must be built on the Truth.🇺🇸🇺🇦

    “Russia Invades Ukraine in Largest European Attack Since WWII”

    https://x.com/Mike_Pence/status/1892271536394162229

    Interesting approach to the Cult but then he has inside knowledge. One politician to watch.
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