An interesting observation – politicalbetting.com

TimS said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Starmer accused of ‘fudging the facts’ over his education
Former Blair adviser and Sutton Trust founder criticises Prime Minister for ‘pretending’ he went to state school
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/01/31/keir-starmer-accused-fudging-facts-education-vat-raid/

But he did, to all intents and purposes. It was free when he arrived and that was kept the case for any pupils present before the decision to go feepaying.

Basically Starmer started off in a grammar school which became a private school when he reached its sixth form.

So Sir Keir had a very Tory education essentially and never set foot in the local comp even if his initial secondary education was in a state grammar

If we’re back to the donkey sanctuary level of Keir attacks then maybe Labour isn’t doing as badly as I thought.

HYUFD said:

TimS said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Starmer accused of ‘fudging the facts’ over his education
Former Blair adviser and Sutton Trust founder criticises Prime Minister for ‘pretending’ he went to state school
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/01/31/keir-starmer-accused-fudging-facts-education-vat-raid/

But he did, to all intents and purposes. It was free when he arrived and that was kept the case for any pupils present before the decision to go feepaying.

Basically Starmer started off in a grammar school which became a private school when he reached its sixth form.

So Sir Keir had a very Tory education essentially and never set foot in the local comp even if his initial secondary education was in a state grammar

If we’re back to the donkey sanctuary level of Keir attacks then maybe Labour isn’t doing as badly as I thought.

It remains a fact though that we have never had a Labour PM elected at a comprehensive school, whereas we have had a Tory PM educated at their local comp, Liz Truss.

Badenoch is also comp educated unlike grammar and private school educated Starmer and privately educated Farage and Davey

HYUFD said:

TimS said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Starmer accused of ‘fudging the facts’ over his education
Former Blair adviser and Sutton Trust founder criticises Prime Minister for ‘pretending’ he went to state school
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/01/31/keir-starmer-accused-fudging-facts-education-vat-raid/

But he did, to all intents and purposes. It was free when he arrived and that was kept the case for any pupils present before the decision to go feepaying.

Basically Starmer started off in a grammar school which became a private school when he reached its sixth form.

So Sir Keir had a very Tory education essentially and never set foot in the local comp even if his initial secondary education was in a state grammar

If we’re back to the donkey sanctuary level of Keir attacks then maybe Labour isn’t doing as badly as I thought.

It remains a fact though that we have never had a Labour PM fully educated at a comprehensive school (closest was Brown but he was hot housed in separate classes), whereas we have had a Tory PM fully educated at their local comp, Liz Truss.

Badenoch went to a state FE college for her UK secondary education unlike grammar and private school educated Starmer and privately educated Farage and Davey

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

TimS said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Starmer accused of ‘fudging the facts’ over his education
Former Blair adviser and Sutton Trust founder criticises Prime Minister for ‘pretending’ he went to state school
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/01/31/keir-starmer-accused-fudging-facts-education-vat-raid/

But he did, to all intents and purposes. It was free when he arrived and that was kept the case for any pupils present before the decision to go feepaying.

Basically Starmer started off in a grammar school which became a private school when he reached its sixth form.

So Sir Keir had a very Tory education essentially and never set foot in the local comp even if his initial secondary education was in a state grammar

If we’re back to the donkey sanctuary level of Keir attacks then maybe Labour isn’t doing as badly as I thought.

It remains a fact though that we have never had a Labour PM elected at a comprehensive school, whereas we have had a Tory PM educated at their local comp, Liz Truss.

Badenoch is also comp educated unlike grammar and private school educated Starmer and privately educated Farage and Davey

That's being rather narrowly worded.

(a) we've had very few Labour PMs [edit!] in the UK full stop
(b) comprehensive schools didn't exist for much of that period
(c) you're excluding Ramsay MacDonald because of your definitions. And ditto Jim Callaghan. So that's 2 out of 5 Labour PMs straight away.

If you just look at general election winning Labour PMs ie MacDonald, Attlee, Wilson, Blair and Starmer 3/5 of them went to a private school for at least part of their education

CJohn said:

Neither Le Pen's Rassemblement in France nor Reform are "far right".

Rassemblement has leftish socio-economic policies; Reform's are mere make believe: tax cuts, spending increases and decreased borrowimg and deficit.

But unlike MAGA, Reform has shown no signs of wanting to assault democracy.

Unfortunately, it also shows no sign of any idea of how to wean the UK off immigration.

rcs1000 said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Omnium said:

Casino_Royale said:

Mexicanpete said:

MoonRabbit said:

williamglenn said:

SouthamObserver said:

MaxPB said:

SouthamObserver said:

MaxPB said:

Eabhal said:

MaxPB said:

Leon said:

Fishing said:

Leon said:

Jonathan said:

If a paradigm has shifted, it’s the fall of the free trade pro business conservative centre right replaced by the nationalist, protectionist “fuck business” populist right.

Yes, I think that's correct

Britain has enjoyed or endured spectacular levels of immigration in the last 10-20 years. We are constantly assured this contributes to growth. Yet, as @Sandpit shows, the reality is that GDP per capita has not grown at all even as our population has exploded by many millions, putting pressure on everything - from sewage systems to landscapes, from education to health. Meanwhile our cities crumble and we have very real and unpleasant social problems stemming from the migration

Now we are told "another 5 million must come in the next ten years". Why? What the fuck? We don't want any more. Polls show that voters - by almost 2 to 1 - would rather have LESS immigration EVEN IF IT COMES AT THE EXPENSE OF GROWTH

https://x.com/GideonSkinner/status/1884199390463799730/photo/1

No one buys the "growth" shit any more, and even if they do, they are past caring

I think that's true. There are exceptions for very highly motivated or wealthy individuals, but generally per capita growth does not generally come from opening the floodgates to unskilled or semi-skilled immigration - it comes from low taxes, low but efficient government spending and light but effective regulation.

In short the exact opposite of the route we've been following for more than twenty years.

Yes. And the public has finally woken up to this reality. Hence the paradigm shift

Here's a good thought experiment - imagine a scenario where we get a Reform/Tory government next time out and they get serious about immigration, not only do we pause inwards migration from people with income under £50-60k we also pause visa renewals and revoke visas for immigrants who earn under £35k. This results in net emigration of 300-400k per year as low wage workers and their dependents are forced to leave the country. It will result in overall growth falling due to falling aggregate demand from those 400k leaving but per capita GDP will rise as there's 400k fewer low and no wage people in the country.

We may have headlines showing the country in recession or zero growth but people will feel better off because within a few years of such action there will be a couple of million fewer people relying on the state for welfare for their dependents (education for many kids, NHS care for families, in some insane cases housing benefits) while removing net negative tax contributions from them.

In a falling or stagnating economy, we can achieve pretty strong net growth in per capita GDP if the government halts low wage immigration and revokes visa status for low wage migrants already in the country. It is within our power to fix this and send these people home unless they have a significant contribution to the tax base of the country which we know only starts at about £45k.

That's entirely true, but it would be enormously disruptive and the market wage for shelf stackers and social care workers would rocket. The NHS in particular would come under huge funding pressure, particularly as it already suffers from Baumol's cost disease. And if you thought the reaction to employer NICs was bad....

But we would finally fix our unusually bad problem with (relative) in-work poverty. PB doesn't like relative measures, but it's really important here for making work at the bottom of the labour market pay for a half decent lifestyle, with median wages the price setter for stuff like eating out.

So it would need to be brought in very gradually. In the long term, it must be accompanied with something that makes having children very attractive - income tax break allowances, council tax exemptions, stamp duty abolished etc. Otherwise the dependency ratio - which isn't too bad with current immigration levels - would spiral out of control.

Immigration drives up rent and property prices and makes it much more difficult for middle income families to have more children. Net emigration of 2-3m of low wage people and their dependents over 5 years would see a huge drop in property demand which would lower rent and stall house prices while also increasing GDP per capita so people will feel better off.

Immigration is a bit like a heroin addict thinking that one more hit will make them feel better. That's the situation we're in right now, we don't want to go through the short term pain of cold turkey which will make a lot of headline numbers look bad but in 5-7 years rebalance the whole economy with, as you point out, pay at the bottom of the scale looking liveable, lower rents, more affordable housing, falling demand leading to lower inflation overall. The country is at breaking point, we simply don't have the capacity in infrastructure to take another 5m people, in fact with the infrastructure we have the country is probably about 3m overpopulated. People including us, talk about lack of infrastructure investment over the last 20 years but the maths of our low wage immigration is the cause of this. We've grown the population from 60m to about 68m, but the economy has grown by far, far less than that population growth should be worth. That has left little to no money for infrastructure, the migrants that have arrived all have dependents and need welfare spending (healthcare, education) which means the government has had to increase spending in these areas more than the tax that those people generate, hence borrowing rising and taxe rates increasing and the overall proportion of the economy accounted for by state spending continually rising.

Immigration must fall rapidly and, I think, in the next government term it must move into a prolonged period of net emigration of low wage and low skill workers. A minimum salary bar of £55-60k for migrants should be implemented for people with dependents and £45-50k for single people. If that causes a labour shortage in healthcare it will force wages to rise and the lazy unemployed/"sick" can actually do some work for once.

Or, put another way, I'll be fine but good luck if you require public services.

But immigration hugely increases demand for public services and welfare. They increase overall aggregate demand by a much larger amount than their contribution. It is why immigration has resulting in falling GDP per capita so no, reducing immigration and moving into net emigration of low skill and low wage workers will reduce demand more than it reduces their contribution meaning more overall resource per person.

You have completely ignored the actual result of immigration for the past decade to draw your pithy one liner which makes you a fool.

I am very aware that non-EU immigration has soared since we left the EU and that non-EU migrants do tend to be lower paid, are more likely to have dependents and may not generate as much taxable income as EU migrants did. However, the new arrivals are here because we need them to keep aspects of the country that you do not need or notice going.

So your argument is that Boris Johnson was acting altruistically out of concern for the less well off?

Not at all. I think he has always been and always will be a bullshitter, interested only in mugging a living, and lying his way to the trappings of power.

Brexit allows UK government control of migration into UK? But at what impact to the size and nature of the British economy? The same British Economy that puts money in everybody’s pocket and pays the public service bills and pensions at the end of the day. That key element of Brexit implementation was never clearly spelt out amongst all Boris and Farage big promises and bluster.

The UK government can only stop importing migration by saying fuck business, and apart from muttering it, those in power implementing Brexit have left the reigns free on business to do pretty much what ever they like, with a “this is caps and stringent rules now post Brexit… apart these billion opt outs.” Swiftly followed by another tranche of loosening, and another tranche of loosening until, guess what, back in exactly the same place as before Brexit implementation.

Brexit is already a dead duck - it was based on the twin whoppers it generates money for public services like NHS, and that it will allow UK to control immigration. Both these lies are already politically coming home to roost in just five years!

We entered the EEC to generate money by removing hidden and admin costs on business, and on exit we reversed exactly that. We lost far more than we gained.

And back in the day @williamglenn knew this. He used to make a compelling case that the UK had, in 2016, voted to impose absurd economic sanctions on itself. And then having climbed out of the Trump rabbit hole he fell back down again.

Williamglenn is quite consistent in believing in empires and federalism, be they European, American or Anglospheric.

He's just changed his mind on which is/should be in the ascendancy.

I've always quite liked @williamglenn. Why are you @Mexicanpete and @Casino_Royale and others ganging up on him?

I like him for the LOLs

I like him for his alternate perspective.
I find his whataboutery, and answering every question with a question, irritating.

williamglenn said:

CJohn said:

Neither Le Pen's Rassemblement in France nor Reform are "far right".

Rassemblement has leftish socio-economic policies; Reform's are mere make believe: tax cuts, spending increases and decreased borrowimg and deficit.

But unlike MAGA, Reform has shown no signs of wanting to assault democracy.

Unfortunately, it also shows no sign of any idea of how to wean the UK off immigration.

Le Pen gave an interview this week where she dismissed the idea of cutting the public sector as "right-wing stuff" and said that the focus should be on whether the state can carry out its functions properly first.

https://x.com/jl7508/status/1884746858800566448

Fishing said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

TimS said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Starmer accused of ‘fudging the facts’ over his education
Former Blair adviser and Sutton Trust founder criticises Prime Minister for ‘pretending’ he went to state school
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/01/31/keir-starmer-accused-fudging-facts-education-vat-raid/

But he did, to all intents and purposes. It was free when he arrived and that was kept the case for any pupils present before the decision to go feepaying.

Basically Starmer started off in a grammar school which became a private school when he reached its sixth form.

So Sir Keir had a very Tory education essentially and never set foot in the local comp even if his initial secondary education was in a state grammar

If we’re back to the donkey sanctuary level of Keir attacks then maybe Labour isn’t doing as badly as I thought.

It remains a fact though that we have never had a Labour PM elected at a comprehensive school, whereas we have had a Tory PM educated at their local comp, Liz Truss.

Badenoch is also comp educated unlike grammar and private school educated Starmer and privately educated Farage and Davey

That's being rather narrowly worded.

(a) we've had very few Labour PMs [edit!] in the UK full stop
(b) comprehensive schools didn't exist for much of that period
(c) you're excluding Ramsay MacDonald because of your definitions. And ditto Jim Callaghan. So that's 2 out of 5 Labour PMs straight away.

If you just look at general election winning Labour PMs ie MacDonald, Attlee, Wilson, Blair and Starmer 3/5 of them went to a private school for at least part of their education

Not allowed to change the goalposts! I'm glad you aren't in charge of any clinical trials for anything important.

MacDonalds, Callaghan, Brown went to comps or the equivalent. That is 3 out of 6. And one who began in a state school even if they changed it under his feet - and the transition period was barely halfway when he left. Only 2 out of 6 in private education. Infinitely better ratio than the Tories.

It is so ridiculous and British to obsess over where people went to school forty years ago as though that matters a damn compared to trivia like what policies they have for the future of the country.

I don't care in the slightest whether somebody went to Eton or the worst sink school in the country as long as they have some idea how to make it a better place.

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

TimS said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Starmer accused of ‘fudging the facts’ over his education
Former Blair adviser and Sutton Trust founder criticises Prime Minister for ‘pretending’ he went to state school
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/01/31/keir-starmer-accused-fudging-facts-education-vat-raid/

But he did, to all intents and purposes. It was free when he arrived and that was kept the case for any pupils present before the decision to go feepaying.

Basically Starmer started off in a grammar school which became a private school when he reached its sixth form.

So Sir Keir had a very Tory education essentially and never set foot in the local comp even if his initial secondary education was in a state grammar

If we’re back to the donkey sanctuary level of Keir attacks then maybe Labour isn’t doing as badly as I thought.

It remains a fact though that we have never had a Labour PM elected at a comprehensive school, whereas we have had a Tory PM educated at their local comp, Liz Truss.

Badenoch is also comp educated unlike grammar and private school educated Starmer and privately educated Farage and Davey

That's being rather narrowly worded.

(a) we've had very few Labour PMs [edit!] in the UK full stop
(b) comprehensive schools didn't exist for much of that period
(c) you're excluding Ramsay MacDonald because of your definitions. And ditto Jim Callaghan. So that's 2 out of 5 Labour PMs straight away.

If you just look at general election winning Labour PMs ie MacDonald, Attlee, Wilson, Blair and Starmer 3/5 of them went to a private school for at least part of their education

Not allowed to change the goalposts! I'm glad you aren't in charge of any clinical trials for anything important.

MacDonalds, Callaghan, Brown went to comps or the equivalent. That is 3 out of 6. And one who began in a state school even if they changed it under his feet - and the transition period was barely halfway when he left. Only 2 out of 6 in private education. Infinitely better ratio than the Tories.

StillWaters said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

TimS said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Starmer accused of ‘fudging the facts’ over his education
Former Blair adviser and Sutton Trust founder criticises Prime Minister for ‘pretending’ he went to state school
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/01/31/keir-starmer-accused-fudging-facts-education-vat-raid/

But he did, to all intents and purposes. It was free when he arrived and that was kept the case for any pupils present before the decision to go feepaying.

Basically Starmer started off in a grammar school which became a private school when he reached its sixth form.

So Sir Keir had a very Tory education essentially and never set foot in the local comp even if his initial secondary education was in a state grammar

If we’re back to the donkey sanctuary level of Keir attacks then maybe Labour isn’t doing as badly as I thought.

It remains a fact though that we have never had a Labour PM elected at a comprehensive school, whereas we have had a Tory PM educated at their local comp, Liz Truss.

Badenoch is also comp educated unlike grammar and private school educated Starmer and privately educated Farage and Davey

That's being rather narrowly worded.

(a) we've had very few Labour PMs [edit!] in the UK full stop
(b) comprehensive schools didn't exist for much of that period
(c) you're excluding Ramsay MacDonald because of your definitions. And ditto Jim Callaghan. So that's 2 out of 5 Labour PMs straight away.

If you just look at general election winning Labour PMs ie MacDonald, Attlee, Wilson, Blair and Starmer 3/5 of them went to a private school for at least part of their education

Not allowed to change the goalposts! I'm glad you aren't in charge of any clinical trials for anything important.

MacDonalds, Callaghan, Brown went to comps or the equivalent. That is 3 out of 6. And one who began in a state school even if they changed it under his feet - and the transition period was barely halfway when he left. Only 2 out of 6 in private education. Infinitely better ratio than the Tories.

Why is it a “better” ratio?

That implies bias. Surely we would want our PM to be the best educated irrespective o the governance structure of their school?

Gallowgate said:

StillWaters said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

TimS said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Starmer accused of ‘fudging the facts’ over his education
Former Blair adviser and Sutton Trust founder criticises Prime Minister for ‘pretending’ he went to state school
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/01/31/keir-starmer-accused-fudging-facts-education-vat-raid/

But he did, to all intents and purposes. It was free when he arrived and that was kept the case for any pupils present before the decision to go feepaying.

Basically Starmer started off in a grammar school which became a private school when he reached its sixth form.

So Sir Keir had a very Tory education essentially and never set foot in the local comp even if his initial secondary education was in a state grammar

If we’re back to the donkey sanctuary level of Keir attacks then maybe Labour isn’t doing as badly as I thought.

It remains a fact though that we have never had a Labour PM elected at a comprehensive school, whereas we have had a Tory PM educated at their local comp, Liz Truss.

Badenoch is also comp educated unlike grammar and private school educated Starmer and privately educated Farage and Davey

That's being rather narrowly worded.

(a) we've had very few Labour PMs [edit!] in the UK full stop
(b) comprehensive schools didn't exist for much of that period
(c) you're excluding Ramsay MacDonald because of your definitions. And ditto Jim Callaghan. So that's 2 out of 5 Labour PMs straight away.

If you just look at general election winning Labour PMs ie MacDonald, Attlee, Wilson, Blair and Starmer 3/5 of them went to a private school for at least part of their education

Not allowed to change the goalposts! I'm glad you aren't in charge of any clinical trials for anything important.

MacDonalds, Callaghan, Brown went to comps or the equivalent. That is 3 out of 6. And one who began in a state school even if they changed it under his feet - and the transition period was barely halfway when he left. Only 2 out of 6 in private education. Infinitely better ratio than the Tories.

Why is it a “better” ratio?

That implies bias. Surely we would want our PM to be the best educated irrespective o the governance structure of their school?

Not really. Private school does not equal "better educated" nor does it equal "more intelligent" or "better suited to the job".

Gallowgate said:

Reform will be found out in government because they do not have a coherent plan. The same reason Labour are being found out, and the Conservatives were found out. There has been no coherent plan since the coalition.

Gallowgate said:

StillWaters said:

Gallowgate said:

StillWaters said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

TimS said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Starmer accused of ‘fudging the facts’ over his education
Former Blair adviser and Sutton Trust founder criticises Prime Minister for ‘pretending’ he went to state school
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/01/31/keir-starmer-accused-fudging-facts-education-vat-raid/

But he did, to all intents and purposes. It was free when he arrived and that was kept the case for any pupils present before the decision to go feepaying.

Basically Starmer started off in a grammar school which became a private school when he reached its sixth form.

So Sir Keir had a very Tory education essentially and never set foot in the local comp even if his initial secondary education was in a state grammar

If we’re back to the donkey sanctuary level of Keir attacks then maybe Labour isn’t doing as badly as I thought.

It remains a fact though that we have never had a Labour PM elected at a comprehensive school, whereas we have had a Tory PM educated at their local comp, Liz Truss.

Badenoch is also comp educated unlike grammar and private school educated Starmer and privately educated Farage and Davey

That's being rather narrowly worded.

(a) we've had very few Labour PMs [edit!] in the UK full stop
(b) comprehensive schools didn't exist for much of that period
(c) you're excluding Ramsay MacDonald because of your definitions. And ditto Jim Callaghan. So that's 2 out of 5 Labour PMs straight away.

If you just look at general election winning Labour PMs ie MacDonald, Attlee, Wilson, Blair and Starmer 3/5 of them went to a private school for at least part of their education

Not allowed to change the goalposts! I'm glad you aren't in charge of any clinical trials for anything important.

MacDonalds, Callaghan, Brown went to comps or the equivalent. That is 3 out of 6. And one who began in a state school even if they changed it under his feet - and the transition period was barely halfway when he left. Only 2 out of 6 in private education. Infinitely better ratio than the Tories.

Why is it a “better” ratio?

That implies bias. Surely we would want our PM to be the best educated irrespective o the governance structure of their school?

Not really. Private school does not equal "better educated" nor does it equal "more intelligent" or "better suited to the job".

I wasn’t implying that private education means any of that.

I was saying that the governance structure of the school someone goes to is irrelevant to their ability to be PM.

My apologies. I agree with that statement.

StillWaters said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

TimS said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Starmer accused of ‘fudging the facts’ over his education
Former Blair adviser and Sutton Trust founder criticises Prime Minister for ‘pretending’ he went to state school
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/01/31/keir-starmer-accused-fudging-facts-education-vat-raid/

But he did, to all intents and purposes. It was free when he arrived and that was kept the case for any pupils present before the decision to go feepaying.

Basically Starmer started off in a grammar school which became a private school when he reached its sixth form.

So Sir Keir had a very Tory education essentially and never set foot in the local comp even if his initial secondary education was in a state grammar

If we’re back to the donkey sanctuary level of Keir attacks then maybe Labour isn’t doing as badly as I thought.

It remains a fact though that we have never had a Labour PM elected at a comprehensive school, whereas we have had a Tory PM educated at their local comp, Liz Truss.

Badenoch is also comp educated unlike grammar and private school educated Starmer and privately educated Farage and Davey

That's being rather narrowly worded.

(a) we've had very few Labour PMs [edit!] in the UK full stop
(b) comprehensive schools didn't exist for much of that period
(c) you're excluding Ramsay MacDonald because of your definitions. And ditto Jim Callaghan. So that's 2 out of 5 Labour PMs straight away.

If you just look at general election winning Labour PMs ie MacDonald, Attlee, Wilson, Blair and Starmer 3/5 of them went to a private school for at least part of their education

Not allowed to change the goalposts! I'm glad you aren't in charge of any clinical trials for anything important.

MacDonalds, Callaghan, Brown went to comps or the equivalent. That is 3 out of 6. And one who began in a state school even if they changed it under his feet - and the transition period was barely halfway when he left. Only 2 out of 6 in private education. Infinitely better ratio than the Tories.

Why is it a “better” ratio?

That implies bias. Surely we would want our PM to be the best educated irrespective o the governance structure of their school?

Gallowgate said:

StillWaters said:

Gallowgate said:

StillWaters said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

TimS said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Starmer accused of ‘fudging the facts’ over his education
Former Blair adviser and Sutton Trust founder criticises Prime Minister for ‘pretending’ he went to state school
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/01/31/keir-starmer-accused-fudging-facts-education-vat-raid/

But he did, to all intents and purposes. It was free when he arrived and that was kept the case for any pupils present before the decision to go feepaying.

Basically Starmer started off in a grammar school which became a private school when he reached its sixth form.

So Sir Keir had a very Tory education essentially and never set foot in the local comp even if his initial secondary education was in a state grammar

If we’re back to the donkey sanctuary level of Keir attacks then maybe Labour isn’t doing as badly as I thought.

It remains a fact though that we have never had a Labour PM elected at a comprehensive school, whereas we have had a Tory PM educated at their local comp, Liz Truss.

Badenoch is also comp educated unlike grammar and private school educated Starmer and privately educated Farage and Davey

That's being rather narrowly worded.

(a) we've had very few Labour PMs [edit!] in the UK full stop
(b) comprehensive schools didn't exist for much of that period
(c) you're excluding Ramsay MacDonald because of your definitions. And ditto Jim Callaghan. So that's 2 out of 5 Labour PMs straight away.

If you just look at general election winning Labour PMs ie MacDonald, Attlee, Wilson, Blair and Starmer 3/5 of them went to a private school for at least part of their education

Not allowed to change the goalposts! I'm glad you aren't in charge of any clinical trials for anything important.

MacDonalds, Callaghan, Brown went to comps or the equivalent. That is 3 out of 6. And one who began in a state school even if they changed it under his feet - and the transition period was barely halfway when he left. Only 2 out of 6 in private education. Infinitely better ratio than the Tories.

Why is it a “better” ratio?

That implies bias. Surely we would want our PM to be the best educated irrespective o the governance structure of their school?

Not really. Private school does not equal "better educated" nor does it equal "more intelligent" or "better suited to the job".

I wasn’t implying that private education means any of that.

I was saying that the governance structure of the school someone goes to is irrelevant to their ability to be PM.

My apologies. I agree with that statement.

Gardenwalker said:

TimS said:

I’ve read enough material on TwiX in the last couple of weeks to convince me that the USA isn’t just going through one of its periodic conniptions. It’s actually embracing fascist ideas. Now, it’s possible that’s just Elon’s algorithm wanting me to believe so, but the belief seems heartfelt. Belief like, for example in geopolitics and sovereignty, “what’s mine is mine, what’s yours is negotiable”. Putin logic.

Fascist ideas are one thing. If they remain ideas, then that’s manageable. The question is will they turn into actions? So far there’s nothing beyond tetchy culture war yah boo stuff. The test cases for me will include:

- Greenland, Panama or Canada turning military
- Imprisonment of anti-Trump journalists or politicians
- Extra-judicial killings

I think we’re a way off for now. But the sentiment seems to be there.

Excitingly, I get to live it, like one of those “Travellers in the Third Reich”.

Gardenwalker said:

Excitingly, I get to live it, like one of those “Travellers in the Third Reich”.

Gardenwalker said:

MattW said:

What are the odds on Canada bringing in tariffs on Teslas?

They seek 50k per year.

Hopefully, 100% tariff.
And the shutdown of X (and, why not, Meta).
Co-ordinated with Mexico.

rottenborough said:

Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump

This morning I ordered precision Military air strikes on the Senior ISIS Attack Planner and other terrorists he recruited and led in Somalia. These killers, who we found hiding in caves, threatened the United States and our Allies. The strikes destroyed the caves they live in, and killed many terrorists without, in any way, harming civilians. Our Military has targeted this ISIS Attack Planner for years, but Biden and his cronies wouldn’t act quickly enough to get the job done. I did! The message to ISIS and all others who would attack Americans is that “WE WILL FIND YOU, AND WE WILL KILL YOU!”

rottenborough said:

Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump

This morning I ordered precision Military air strikes on the Senior ISIS Attack Planner and other terrorists he recruited and led in Somalia. These killers, who we found hiding in caves, threatened the United States and our Allies. The strikes destroyed the caves they live in, and killed many terrorists without, in any way, harming civilians. Our Military has targeted this ISIS Attack Planner for years, but Biden and his cronies wouldn’t act quickly enough to get the job done. I did! The message to ISIS and all others who would attack Americans is that “WE WILL FIND YOU, AND WE WILL KILL YOU!”

algarkirk said:

TimS said:

I’ve read enough material on TwiX in the last couple of weeks to convince me that the USA isn’t just going through one of its periodic conniptions. It’s actually embracing fascist ideas. Now, it’s possible that’s just Elon’s algorithm wanting me to believe so, but the belief seems heartfelt. Belief like, for example in geopolitics and sovereignty, “what’s mine is mine, what’s yours is negotiable”. Putin logic.

Fascist ideas are one thing. If they remain ideas, then that’s manageable. The question is will they turn into actions? So far there’s nothing beyond tetchy culture war yah boo stuff. The test cases for me will include:

- Greenland, Panama or Canada turning military
- Imprisonment of anti-Trump journalists or politicians
- Extra-judicial killings

I think we’re a way off for now. But the sentiment seems to be there.

Not so way off.

-Release of large numbers of violent men who savagely assaulted people and sought to overturn the democratic process?
-Large numbers of former opponents falling into line as they see the lie of the land
-Placemen of no ability put in high position for which they have no qualification
-Systematic use of the lie direct.

More to follow no doubt.

Pagan2 said:

Gardenwalker said:

Stuartinromford said:

Gardenwalker said:

TimS said:

I’ve read enough material on TwiX in the last couple of weeks to convince me that the USA isn’t just going through one of its periodic conniptions. It’s actually embracing fascist ideas. Now, it’s possible that’s just Elon’s algorithm wanting me to believe so, but the belief seems heartfelt. Belief like, for example in geopolitics and sovereignty, “what’s mine is mine, what’s yours is negotiable”. Putin logic.

Fascist ideas are one thing. If they remain ideas, then that’s manageable. The question is will they turn into actions? So far there’s nothing beyond tetchy culture war yah boo stuff. The test cases for me will include:

- Greenland, Panama or Canada turning military
- Imprisonment of anti-Trump journalists or politicians
- Extra-judicial killings

I think we’re a way off for now. But the sentiment seems to be there.

Excitingly, I get to live it, like one of those “Travellers in the Third Reich”.

Interesting good excitement, or "oh [rude word deleted]" excitement?

It’s exciting and of course highly disturbing.
Also, I am an immigrant and although no doubt a privilged one, we all know such niceties stop mattering when a culture turns fash.

Also, economically I may well be affected by the tariffs, let’s see.

To be honest not sure you can claim to be an immigrant of anywhere...you were in NZ then UK now the states......seems you flit where suits you best...more a citizen of nowhere

Gardenwalker said:

Pagan2 said:

Gardenwalker said:

Stuartinromford said:

Gardenwalker said:

TimS said:

I’ve read enough material on TwiX in the last couple of weeks to convince me that the USA isn’t just going through one of its periodic conniptions. It’s actually embracing fascist ideas. Now, it’s possible that’s just Elon’s algorithm wanting me to believe so, but the belief seems heartfelt. Belief like, for example in geopolitics and sovereignty, “what’s mine is mine, what’s yours is negotiable”. Putin logic.

Fascist ideas are one thing. If they remain ideas, then that’s manageable. The question is will they turn into actions? So far there’s nothing beyond tetchy culture war yah boo stuff. The test cases for me will include:

- Greenland, Panama or Canada turning military
- Imprisonment of anti-Trump journalists or politicians
- Extra-judicial killings

I think we’re a way off for now. But the sentiment seems to be there.

Excitingly, I get to live it, like one of those “Travellers in the Third Reich”.

Interesting good excitement, or "oh [rude word deleted]" excitement?

It’s exciting and of course highly disturbing.
Also, I am an immigrant and although no doubt a privilged one, we all know such niceties stop mattering when a culture turns fash.

Also, economically I may well be affected by the tariffs, let’s see.

To be honest not sure you can claim to be an immigrant of anywhere...you were in NZ then UK now the states......seems you flit where suits you best...more a citizen of nowhere

You seem jealous.

Gardenwalker said:

MattW said:

What are the odds on Canada bringing in tariffs on Teslas?

They seek 50k per year.

Hopefully, 100% tariff.
And the shutdown of X (and, why not, Meta).
Co-ordinated with Mexico.

DecrepiterJohnL said:

williamglenn said:

Interesting attack line against Kemi Badenoch from a Lib Dem MP:

https://x.com/threshedthought/status/1885589822372208922

The UK is not a ‘project’.

It’s our country.

I've no idea what that means.

rottenborough said:

Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump

This morning I ordered precision Military air strikes on the Senior ISIS Attack Planner and other terrorists he recruited and led in Somalia. These killers, who we found hiding in caves, threatened the United States and our Allies. The strikes destroyed the caves they live in, and killed many terrorists without, in any way, harming civilians. Our Military has targeted this ISIS Attack Planner for years, but Biden and his cronies wouldn’t act quickly enough to get the job done. I did! The message to ISIS and all others who would attack Americans is that “WE WILL FIND YOU, AND WE WILL KILL YOU!”

Pagan2 said:

Gardenwalker said:

Pagan2 said:

Gardenwalker said:

Stuartinromford said:

Gardenwalker said:

TimS said:

I’ve read enough material on TwiX in the last couple of weeks to convince me that the USA isn’t just going through one of its periodic conniptions. It’s actually embracing fascist ideas. Now, it’s possible that’s just Elon’s algorithm wanting me to believe so, but the belief seems heartfelt. Belief like, for example in geopolitics and sovereignty, “what’s mine is mine, what’s yours is negotiable”. Putin logic.

Fascist ideas are one thing. If they remain ideas, then that’s manageable. The question is will they turn into actions? So far there’s nothing beyond tetchy culture war yah boo stuff. The test cases for me will include:

- Greenland, Panama or Canada turning military
- Imprisonment of anti-Trump journalists or politicians
- Extra-judicial killings

I think we’re a way off for now. But the sentiment seems to be there.

Excitingly, I get to live it, like one of those “Travellers in the Third Reich”.

Interesting good excitement, or "oh [rude word deleted]" excitement?

It’s exciting and of course highly disturbing.
Also, I am an immigrant and although no doubt a privilged one, we all know such niceties stop mattering when a culture turns fash.

Also, economically I may well be affected by the tariffs, let’s see.

To be honest not sure you can claim to be an immigrant of anywhere...you were in NZ then UK now the states......seems you flit where suits you best...more a citizen of nowhere

You seem jealous.

Not at all just pointing out what you are rather than what you claim to be...no doubt if you as you say be affected by tariffs you will flit somewhere else

MattW said:

Gardenwalker said:

TimS said:

Gardenwalker said:

MattW said:

What are the odds on Canada bringing in tariffs on Teslas?

They seek 50k per year.

Hopefully, 100% tariff.
And the shutdown of X (and, why not, Meta).
Co-ordinated with Mexico.

My idea is a sticker with Elon doing his salute, distributed in its tens of thousands to be stuck on Teslas parked on the street.

That’s superb.

The fly in that ointment is that Teslas have external vibration-triggered cameras, so you'd better take care.

Pagan2 said:

Gardenwalker said:

Pagan2 said:

Gardenwalker said:

Pagan2 said:

Gardenwalker said:

Stuartinromford said:

Gardenwalker said:

TimS said:

I’ve read enough material on TwiX in the last couple of weeks to convince me that the USA isn’t just going through one of its periodic conniptions. It’s actually embracing fascist ideas. Now, it’s possible that’s just Elon’s algorithm wanting me to believe so, but the belief seems heartfelt. Belief like, for example in geopolitics and sovereignty, “what’s mine is mine, what’s yours is negotiable”. Putin logic.

Fascist ideas are one thing. If they remain ideas, then that’s manageable. The question is will they turn into actions? So far there’s nothing beyond tetchy culture war yah boo stuff. The test cases for me will include:

- Greenland, Panama or Canada turning military
- Imprisonment of anti-Trump journalists or politicians
- Extra-judicial killings

I think we’re a way off for now. But the sentiment seems to be there.

Excitingly, I get to live it, like one of those “Travellers in the Third Reich”.

Interesting good excitement, or "oh [rude word deleted]" excitement?

It’s exciting and of course highly disturbing.
Also, I am an immigrant and although no doubt a privilged one, we all know such niceties stop mattering when a culture turns fash.

Also, economically I may well be affected by the tariffs, let’s see.

To be honest not sure you can claim to be an immigrant of anywhere...you were in NZ then UK now the states......seems you flit where suits you best...more a citizen of nowhere

You seem jealous.

Not at all just pointing out what you are rather than what you claim to be...no doubt if you as you say be affected by tariffs you will flit somewhere else

And no doubt, you’ll still be Slough, dribbling.

Nope moved but still in the uk, see I don't tend to move based on whats more tax efficient for me

Gardenwalker said:

Pagan2 said:

Gardenwalker said:

Pagan2 said:

Gardenwalker said:

Pagan2 said:

Gardenwalker said:

Stuartinromford said:

Gardenwalker said:

TimS said:

I’ve read enough material on TwiX in the last couple of weeks to convince me that the USA isn’t just going through one of its periodic conniptions. It’s actually embracing fascist ideas. Now, it’s possible that’s just Elon’s algorithm wanting me to believe so, but the belief seems heartfelt. Belief like, for example in geopolitics and sovereignty, “what’s mine is mine, what’s yours is negotiable”. Putin logic.

Fascist ideas are one thing. If they remain ideas, then that’s manageable. The question is will they turn into actions? So far there’s nothing beyond tetchy culture war yah boo stuff. The test cases for me will include:

- Greenland, Panama or Canada turning military
- Imprisonment of anti-Trump journalists or politicians
- Extra-judicial killings

I think we’re a way off for now. But the sentiment seems to be there.

Excitingly, I get to live it, like one of those “Travellers in the Third Reich”.

Interesting good excitement, or "oh [rude word deleted]" excitement?

It’s exciting and of course highly disturbing.
Also, I am an immigrant and although no doubt a privilged one, we all know such niceties stop mattering when a culture turns fash.

Also, economically I may well be affected by the tariffs, let’s see.

To be honest not sure you can claim to be an immigrant of anywhere...you were in NZ then UK now the states......seems you flit where suits you best...more a citizen of nowhere

You seem jealous.

Not at all just pointing out what you are rather than what you claim to be...no doubt if you as you say be affected by tariffs you will flit somewhere else

And no doubt, you’ll still be Slough, dribbling.

Nope moved but still in the uk, see I don't tend to move based on whats more tax efficient for me

You think I moved to New York for tax efficiency? Lol.

Gardenwalker said:

Pagan2 said:

Gardenwalker said:

Pagan2 said:

Gardenwalker said:

Pagan2 said:

Gardenwalker said:

Pagan2 said:

Gardenwalker said:

Stuartinromford said:

Gardenwalker said:

TimS said:

I’ve read enough material on TwiX in the last couple of weeks to convince me that the USA isn’t just going through one of its periodic conniptions. It’s actually embracing fascist ideas. Now, it’s possible that’s just Elon’s algorithm wanting me to believe so, but the belief seems heartfelt. Belief like, for example in geopolitics and sovereignty, “what’s mine is mine, what’s yours is negotiable”. Putin logic.

Fascist ideas are one thing. If they remain ideas, then that’s manageable. The question is will they turn into actions? So far there’s nothing beyond tetchy culture war yah boo stuff. The test cases for me will include:

- Greenland, Panama or Canada turning military
- Imprisonment of anti-Trump journalists or politicians
- Extra-judicial killings

I think we’re a way off for now. But the sentiment seems to be there.

Excitingly, I get to live it, like one of those “Travellers in the Third Reich”.

Interesting good excitement, or "oh [rude word deleted]" excitement?

It’s exciting and of course highly disturbing.
Also, I am an immigrant and although no doubt a privilged one, we all know such niceties stop mattering when a culture turns fash.

Also, economically I may well be affected by the tariffs, let’s see.

To be honest not sure you can claim to be an immigrant of anywhere...you were in NZ then UK now the states......seems you flit where suits you best...more a citizen of nowhere

You seem jealous.

Not at all just pointing out what you are rather than what you claim to be...no doubt if you as you say be affected by tariffs you will flit somewhere else

And no doubt, you’ll still be Slough, dribbling.

Nope moved but still in the uk, see I don't tend to move based on whats more tax efficient for me

You think I moved to New York for tax efficiency? Lol.

I think you flit from country to country as it suits you and have loyalty to none.....therefore as Mistress May named you....citizen of nowhere

Well one advantage of living here is that there’s absolutely no chance of bumping into you.

I’m 100% convinced that you have incredibly bad body odour.

StillWaters said:

Gardenwalker said:

Pagan2 said:

Gardenwalker said:

Pagan2 said:

Gardenwalker said:

Pagan2 said:

Gardenwalker said:

Pagan2 said:

Gardenwalker said:

Stuartinromford said:

Gardenwalker said:

TimS said:

I’ve read enough material on TwiX in the last couple of weeks to convince me that the USA isn’t just going through one of its periodic conniptions. It’s actually embracing fascist ideas. Now, it’s possible that’s just Elon’s algorithm wanting me to believe so, but the belief seems heartfelt. Belief like, for example in geopolitics and sovereignty, “what’s mine is mine, what’s yours is negotiable”. Putin logic.

Fascist ideas are one thing. If they remain ideas, then that’s manageable. The question is will they turn into actions? So far there’s nothing beyond tetchy culture war yah boo stuff. The test cases for me will include:

- Greenland, Panama or Canada turning military
- Imprisonment of anti-Trump journalists or politicians
- Extra-judicial killings

I think we’re a way off for now. But the sentiment seems to be there.

Excitingly, I get to live it, like one of those “Travellers in the Third Reich”.

Interesting good excitement, or "oh [rude word deleted]" excitement?

It’s exciting and of course highly disturbing.
Also, I am an immigrant and although no doubt a privilged one, we all know such niceties stop mattering when a culture turns fash.

Also, economically I may well be affected by the tariffs, let’s see.

To be honest not sure you can claim to be an immigrant of anywhere...you were in NZ then UK now the states......seems you flit where suits you best...more a citizen of nowhere

You seem jealous.

Not at all just pointing out what you are rather than what you claim to be...no doubt if you as you say be affected by tariffs you will flit somewhere else

And no doubt, you’ll still be Slough, dribbling.

Nope moved but still in the uk, see I don't tend to move based on whats more tax efficient for me

You think I moved to New York for tax efficiency? Lol.

I think you flit from country to country as it suits you and have loyalty to none.....therefore as Mistress May named you....citizen of nowhere

Well one advantage of living here is that there’s absolutely no chance of bumping into you.

I’m 100% convinced that you have incredibly bad body odour.

Knock it off @Gardenwalker

StillWaters said:

Gardenwalker said:

Pagan2 said:

Gardenwalker said:

Pagan2 said:

Gardenwalker said:

Pagan2 said:

Gardenwalker said:

Pagan2 said:

Gardenwalker said:

Stuartinromford said:

Gardenwalker said:

TimS said:

I’ve read enough material on TwiX in the last couple of weeks to convince me that the USA isn’t just going through one of its periodic conniptions. It’s actually embracing fascist ideas. Now, it’s possible that’s just Elon’s algorithm wanting me to believe so, but the belief seems heartfelt. Belief like, for example in geopolitics and sovereignty, “what’s mine is mine, what’s yours is negotiable”. Putin logic.

Fascist ideas are one thing. If they remain ideas, then that’s manageable. The question is will they turn into actions? So far there’s nothing beyond tetchy culture war yah boo stuff. The test cases for me will include:

- Greenland, Panama or Canada turning military
- Imprisonment of anti-Trump journalists or politicians
- Extra-judicial killings

I think we’re a way off for now. But the sentiment seems to be there.

Excitingly, I get to live it, like one of those “Travellers in the Third Reich”.

Interesting good excitement, or "oh [rude word deleted]" excitement?

It’s exciting and of course highly disturbing.
Also, I am an immigrant and although no doubt a privilged one, we all know such niceties stop mattering when a culture turns fash.

Also, economically I may well be affected by the tariffs, let’s see.

To be honest not sure you can claim to be an immigrant of anywhere...you were in NZ then UK now the states......seems you flit where suits you best...more a citizen of nowhere

You seem jealous.

Not at all just pointing out what you are rather than what you claim to be...no doubt if you as you say be affected by tariffs you will flit somewhere else

And no doubt, you’ll still be Slough, dribbling.

Nope moved but still in the uk, see I don't tend to move based on whats more tax efficient for me

You think I moved to New York for tax efficiency? Lol.

I think you flit from country to country as it suits you and have loyalty to none.....therefore as Mistress May named you....citizen of nowhere

Well one advantage of living here is that there’s absolutely no chance of bumping into you.

I’m 100% convinced that you have incredibly bad body odour.

Knock it off @Gardenwalker

kamski said:

RFK Jr to senators:

"All my kids are vaccinated. I believe vaccines have saved millions of lives and play a critical role in health care."

RFK Jr to his own anti-vax organisation in 2020 on being able to go back in time and not vaccinate his children:
“I would do anything for that. I would pay anything to be able to do that.”

https://live.childrenshealthdefense.org/chd-tv/shows/truth-with-robert-f-kennedy-jr/children8217s-health-epidemics-vaccine-injuries--more/

It's a 45 minute anti-vaccine rant full of things that are just not true eg "vaccine manufacturers themselves list autism as a possible side effect". Interspersed with videos of children with RFK's emotional voice over "they'll never write a poem they'll never go on a date.... If i could save just one of them I would give up everything" it's really sickening

The guy makes a lot of money peddling this bullshit he's utterly despicable. And a shameless liar.

TimS said:

I’ve read enough material on TwiX in the last couple of weeks to convince me that the USA isn’t just going through one of its periodic conniptions. It’s actually embracing fascist ideas. Now, it’s possible that’s just Elon’s algorithm wanting me to believe so, but the belief seems heartfelt. Belief like, for example in geopolitics and sovereignty, “what’s mine is mine, what’s yours is negotiable”. Putin logic.

Fascist ideas are one thing. If they remain ideas, then that’s manageable. The question is will they turn into actions? So far there’s nothing beyond tetchy culture war yah boo stuff. The test cases for me will include:

- Greenland, Panama or Canada turning military
- Imprisonment of anti-Trump journalists or politicians
- Extra-judicial killings

I think we’re a way off for now. But the sentiment seems to be there.

Malmesbury said:

a

MattW said:

Semi-serious question.

Does anyone have a decent impression where the various current senior Conservatives are in their attitudes to Mr Trump?

What about Kemi and her front-benchers, such as Chris Philp, or the more wing-swingers such as Jenrick? And about Braverman and Patel? And the others.

And what about the expelled but noisy, such as Truss, or the other I have forgotten, such as (checks) Mordaunt, Chalk, Keegan or Lucy Frazer?

I'm assuming that people like Tom Tugendhat or James Cleverly are behind the sofa somewhere looking in horror through their fingers - but what about Jeremy Hunt and Rishi Sunak?

And has Boris come slightly more to his senses? Though I hear (vaguely) that he has been chipping away at Trump's minions on behalf of Ukraine.

And what is someone like Miriam Cates' view now on Trump? I mention her because AIUI she is one of the enthusiasts for native fertility.

Notable that across the world, people are (pretending) to bend the knee.

Including Sir Keith “Kid Starver” & his government.

We’ve even seen The Mandelbrot saying nice things about Big Orange.

SandyRentool said:

Malmesbury said:

a

MattW said:

Semi-serious question.

Does anyone have a decent impression where the various current senior Conservatives are in their attitudes to Mr Trump?

What about Kemi and her front-benchers, such as Chris Philp, or the more wing-swingers such as Jenrick? And about Braverman and Patel? And the others.

And what about the expelled but noisy, such as Truss, or the other I have forgotten, such as (checks) Mordaunt, Chalk, Keegan or Lucy Frazer?

I'm assuming that people like Tom Tugendhat or James Cleverly are behind the sofa somewhere looking in horror through their fingers - but what about Jeremy Hunt and Rishi Sunak?

And has Boris come slightly more to his senses? Though I hear (vaguely) that he has been chipping away at Trump's minions on behalf of Ukraine.

And what is someone like Miriam Cates' view now on Trump? I mention her because AIUI she is one of the enthusiasts for native fertility.

Notable that across the world, people are (pretending) to bend the knee.

Including Sir Keith “Kid Starver” & his government.

We’ve even seen The Mandelbrot saying nice things about Big Orange.

Western politicians are happy to kiss the rings of China and Saudi. Trump is saintly in comparison.

kamski said:

RFK Jr to senators:

"All my kids are vaccinated. I believe vaccines have saved millions of lives and play a critical role in health care."

RFK Jr to his own anti-vax organisation in 2020 on being able to go back in time and not vaccinate his children:
“I would do anything for that. I would pay anything to be able to do that.”

https://live.childrenshealthdefense.org/chd-tv/shows/truth-with-robert-f-kennedy-jr/children8217s-health-epidemics-vaccine-injuries--more/

It's a 45 minute anti-vaccine rant full of things that are just not true eg "vaccine manufacturers themselves list autism as a possible side effect". Interspersed with videos of children with RFK's emotional voice over "they'll never write a poem they'll never go on a date.... If i could save just one of them I would give up everything" it's really sickening

The guy makes a lot of money peddling this bullshit he's utterly despicable. And a shameless liar.

Stuartinromford said:

Malmesbury said:

a

MattW said:

Semi-serious question.

Does anyone have a decent impression where the various current senior Conservatives are in their attitudes to Mr Trump?

What about Kemi and her front-benchers, such as Chris Philp, or the more wing-swingers such as Jenrick? And about Braverman and Patel? And the others.

And what about the expelled but noisy, such as Truss, or the other I have forgotten, such as (checks) Mordaunt, Chalk, Keegan or Lucy Frazer?

I'm assuming that people like Tom Tugendhat or James Cleverly are behind the sofa somewhere looking in horror through their fingers - but what about Jeremy Hunt and Rishi Sunak?

And has Boris come slightly more to his senses? Though I hear (vaguely) that he has been chipping away at Trump's minions on behalf of Ukraine.

And what is someone like Miriam Cates' view now on Trump? I mention her because AIUI she is one of the enthusiasts for native fertility.

Notable that across the world, people are (pretending) to bend the knee.

Including Sir Keith “Kid Starver” & his government.

We’ve even seen The Mandelbrot saying nice things about Big Orange.

The government kind of have to be diplomatic, thanks to the rules of diplomacy.

The Conservatives are free from that at the moment. Which is what makes their responses interesting.