Brexit, the UK’s prohibition era? – politicalbetting.com

The owner of Hinkley Point C in Somerset has warned that the much-delayed construction of Britain’s first new nuclear power plant in a generation could face further hold-ups due to a row over its impact on local fish.

The nuclear developer, EDF Energy, warned that the “lengthy process” to agree to a solution with local communities to protect fish in the River Severn had “the potential to delay the operation of the power station”.

http://theguardian.com/business/2025/jan/30/hinkley-point-c-owner-warns-fish-row-may-further-delay-nuclear-plant

First it was bat tunnels, now fish discos.

TimS said:

Another irritating gotcha interview on the Today programme with the chief exec of water UK.

I know water companies aren’t hugely popular but the interview was ridiculous. It was more like a tetchy exchange on PB than an enlightening interview.

Absolutely standard for media in 2020s...

The Brexit numbers are pretty fucking amazing but we're going to need another three or four bad flu seasons to cull the leaver herd even more before the ever-cautious SKS will move to a new policy position. It's coming. Just not yet.

FrancisUrquhart said:

The owner of Hinkley Point C in Somerset has warned that the much-delayed construction of Britain’s first new nuclear power plant in a generation could face further hold-ups due to a row over its impact on local fish.

The nuclear developer, EDF Energy, warned that the “lengthy process” to agree to a solution with local communities to protect fish in the River Severn had “the potential to delay the operation of the power station”.

http://theguardian.com/business/2025/jan/30/hinkley-point-c-owner-warns-fish-row-may-further-delay-nuclear-plant

First it was bat tunnels, now fish discos.

All the credibility of £2/week avocado expenditure being the reason youngsters can't save a £50k deposit.
Clearly HPC is going to be even later than the last confession due to incompetence and they've found some silly story to excite our stupid press. Just like a £100m bat tunnel isn't why HS2 is £bns over budget, at worse it could be why it was £100m over budget.

Dura_Ace said:

The Brexit numbers are pretty fucking amazing but we're going to need another three or four bad flu seasons to cull the leaver herd even more before the ever-cautious SKS will move to a new policy position. It's coming. Just not yet.

It is interesting to see that full Rejoin is more popular than rejoining just the Single Market or Customs Union.

It won't be on the cards for this Parliament, but at the 2029 GE it may well be.

Battlebus said:

Open question from a Remainer.

Hasn't the time to rejoin past? The effort to get up to speed again to rejoin would simply take cash and political bandwidth we don't have. Politics is difficult but reorienting business back to EU market would be even more so.

Time for some internal capacity building of state and business infrastructure before we relaunch into the wide, wide world again.

It's never the wrong time to reverse a major mistake, and it is clear that the British public sees Brexit as a major mistake.

FrancisUrquhart said:

The owner of Hinkley Point C in Somerset has warned that the much-delayed construction of Britain’s first new nuclear power plant in a generation could face further hold-ups due to a row over its impact on local fish.

The nuclear developer, EDF Energy, warned that the “lengthy process” to agree to a solution with local communities to protect fish in the River Severn had “the potential to delay the operation of the power station”.

http://theguardian.com/business/2025/jan/30/hinkley-point-c-owner-warns-fish-row-may-further-delay-nuclear-plant

First it was bat tunnels, now fish discos.

Either crapulent design or have regulations been changed?

The issues with fish vs inlet and outlet water for power stations have been known and designed for, for over a hundred years.

Foxy said:

Dura_Ace said:

The Brexit numbers are pretty fucking amazing but we're going to need another three or four bad flu seasons to cull the leaver herd even more before the ever-cautious SKS will move to a new policy position. It's coming. Just not yet.

It is interesting to see that full Rejoin is more popular than rejoining just the Single Market or Customs Union.

It won't be on the cards for this Parliament, but at the 2029 GE it may well be.

For all people said "we just wanted the trade, not the politics", a country has to have a really really good reason to opt out of the politics. Because messy as politics is, it's also how democracy happens. I can sort of see how that opt out works for Switzerland and Norway as small nations with something specific they want to protect. Harder for the UK.

As for Starmer, he probably will keep to his red lines. But his successor isn't tied to them, and it's hard to see how anyone wins a Labour leadership election without going a lot further.

TimS said:

Another irritating gotcha interview on the Today programme with the chief exec of water UK.

I know water companies aren’t hugely popular but the interview was ridiculous. It was more like a tetchy exchange on PB than an enlightening interview.

Completely agree. Very poor journalism

Dura_Ace said:

The Brexit numbers are pretty fucking amazing but we're going to need another three or four bad flu seasons to cull the leaver herd even more before the ever-cautious SKS will move to a new policy position. It's coming. Just not yet.

I think they're amazing for Leave - the 30% sticking to their guns is pretty remarkable for a result that's been dumped on and disastrously mishandled by all and sundry since the vote was announced. I'm very buoyed up by these numbers actually - and us about to enter the Farage era too. Thanks TSE!

FF43 said:

Battlebus said:

Open question from a Remainer.

Hasn't the time to rejoin past? The effort to get up to speed again to rejoin would simply take cash and political bandwidth we don't have. Politics is difficult but reorienting business back to EU market would be even more so.

Time for some internal capacity building of state and business infrastructure before we relaunch into the wide, wide world again.

You can do two things when you make a mistake. You can correct it or you can live with it and move on. We're doing neither. We can't do either until we recognise as a country we screwed up and now need to do something different. None of the major parties is prepared to accept reality on this but the Lib Dems are probably the closest.

So what do you do about the lack of sovereignty? And the lack of direct control over immigration or trade policy?

All this polling shows is that things are a bit shit and people blame what the media writes about. Not necessarily the facts.

StillWaters said:

Malmesbury said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

The owner of Hinkley Point C in Somerset has warned that the much-delayed construction of Britain’s first new nuclear power plant in a generation could face further hold-ups due to a row over its impact on local fish.

The nuclear developer, EDF Energy, warned that the “lengthy process” to agree to a solution with local communities to protect fish in the River Severn had “the potential to delay the operation of the power station”.

http://theguardian.com/business/2025/jan/30/hinkley-point-c-owner-warns-fish-row-may-further-delay-nuclear-plant

First it was bat tunnels, now fish discos.

Either crapulent design or have regulations been changed?

The issues with fish vs inlet and outlet water for power stations have been known and designed for, for over a hundred years.

Probably just a local campaign with a head of steam. As it were.

A local campaign to try and avoid a head of steam!

Foxy said:

Dura_Ace said:

The Brexit numbers are pretty fucking amazing but we're going to need another three or four bad flu seasons to cull the leaver herd even more before the ever-cautious SKS will move to a new policy position. It's coming. Just not yet.

It is interesting to see that full Rejoin is more popular than rejoining just the Single Market or Customs Union.

It won't be on the cards for this Parliament, but at the 2029 GE it may well be.

The actual numbers will be even more adverse because many leavers, for reasons of pride and vanity, will be lying about thinking brexit is shit hot instead of just shit.

FrancisUrquhart said:

The owner of Hinkley Point C in Somerset has warned that the much-delayed construction of Britain’s first new nuclear power plant in a generation could face further hold-ups due to a row over its impact on local fish.

The nuclear developer, EDF Energy, warned that the “lengthy process” to agree to a solution with local communities to protect fish in the River Severn had “the potential to delay the operation of the power station”.

http://theguardian.com/business/2025/jan/30/hinkley-point-c-owner-warns-fish-row-may-further-delay-nuclear-plant

First it was bat tunnels, now fish discos.

Piling into NIMBY's is in vogue and everyone is using it to excuse for failure.

StillWaters said:

FF43 said:

Battlebus said:

Open question from a Remainer.

Hasn't the time to rejoin past? The effort to get up to speed again to rejoin would simply take cash and political bandwidth we don't have. Politics is difficult but reorienting business back to EU market would be even more so.

Time for some internal capacity building of state and business infrastructure before we relaunch into the wide, wide world again.

You can do two things when you make a mistake. You can correct it or you can live with it and move on. We're doing neither. We can't do either until we recognise as a country we screwed up and now need to do something different. None of the major parties is prepared to accept reality on this but the Lib Dems are probably the closest.

So what do you do about the lack of sovereignty? And the lack of direct control over immigration or trade policy?

All this polling shows is that things are a bit shit and people blame what the media writes about. Not necessarily the facts.

Do we have sovereignty now? Having Taken Back Control of our border do we have the sovereignty to simply deport the forrin back to France? Or even slow the flow of boats? How about trade - we imposed UKCA rules on everyone else, that showed 'em. Oh, yeah.

Compared to the megalith trading blocks the UK is a small market. We no more get to dictate our small rules to the giant than JLR gets to dictate which parts it has to fit to vehicles sold in the US. Leave the EU? Sure. Leave the marketplace? Bonkers - and doubly so when the plan was no plan. Even "Lets Go WTO" suggested that they thought we would dictate the rules to the WTO. The opposite - we are already the supplicants.

In practice we already do what the EEA does because its expensive insanity not to - as witnessed by the UKCA debacle as one example. Most voters have no clue about any of this stuff other than what has been weaponised to them - on both sides. The LDs are right because we're looking at how we improve things now, not being bound by arguments of the past. We're *already* dynamically aligned with the EEA in most things. Imposing bullshit red tape and bureaucracy on ourselves is the biggest act of self harm since...

...

Nigelb said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

The owner of Hinkley Point C in Somerset has warned that the much-delayed construction of Britain’s first new nuclear power plant in a generation could face further hold-ups due to a row over its impact on local fish.

The nuclear developer, EDF Energy, warned that the “lengthy process” to agree to a solution with local communities to protect fish in the River Severn had “the potential to delay the operation of the power station”.

http://theguardian.com/business/2025/jan/30/hinkley-point-c-owner-warns-fish-row-may-further-delay-nuclear-plant

First it was bat tunnels, now fish discos.

Absurd.

European Union law. I am glad you (and Labour it would appear) are coming round to using our Brexit freedoms.

Foxy said:

Dura_Ace said:

The Brexit numbers are pretty fucking amazing but we're going to need another three or four bad flu seasons to cull the leaver herd even more before the ever-cautious SKS will move to a new policy position. It's coming. Just not yet.

It is interesting to see that full Rejoin is more popular than rejoining just the Single Market or Customs Union.

It won't be on the cards for this Parliament, but at the 2029 GE it may well be.

We need to prove we have come to our senses and rejoin the single market and customs union. At the moment there’s no way the EU would accept us back in. We need to show we have overcome British exceptionalism first. That means stopping our media undermining the will of the majority.

So the government has failed the Leon Test on…. day 1


Far from their being “spades in the dirt” at Heathrow in the next couple of years, the best they can offer is “planning permission” - PLANNING PERMISSION - HOW LONG HAVE WE BEEN PLANNING THIS - by 2029 ...“maybe”

Utterly shit. Complete failure. We now know this government will be a total failure - guaranteed - so all we can do is sit and grit our teeth and wait for it to end and Nigel to enter number 10

FrancisUrquhart said:

The owner of Hinkley Point C in Somerset has warned that the much-delayed construction of Britain’s first new nuclear power plant in a generation could face further hold-ups due to a row over its impact on local fish.

The nuclear developer, EDF Energy, warned that the “lengthy process” to agree to a solution with local communities to protect fish in the River Severn had “the potential to delay the operation of the power station”.

http://theguardian.com/business/2025/jan/30/hinkley-point-c-owner-warns-fish-row-may-further-delay-nuclear-plant

First it was bat tunnels, now fish discos.

This seems utterly crazy. I wonder if the fish have been recently "introduced"

Brexit has proven to be, well, a bit rubbish. Lots of queues and paperwork. A bureaucrats dream.

I don’t see what we have to lose from signing us back up to the market Thatcher created as part of the growth plan.

RochdalePioneers said:

StillWaters said:

FF43 said:

Battlebus said:

Open question from a Remainer.

Hasn't the time to rejoin past? The effort to get up to speed again to rejoin would simply take cash and political bandwidth we don't have. Politics is difficult but reorienting business back to EU market would be even more so.

Time for some internal capacity building of state and business infrastructure before we relaunch into the wide, wide world again.

You can do two things when you make a mistake. You can correct it or you can live with it and move on. We're doing neither. We can't do either until we recognise as a country we screwed up and now need to do something different. None of the major parties is prepared to accept reality on this but the Lib Dems are probably the closest.

So what do you do about the lack of sovereignty? And the lack of direct control over immigration or trade policy?

All this polling shows is that things are a bit shit and people blame what the media writes about. Not necessarily the facts.

Do we have sovereignty now? Having Taken Back Control of our border do we have the sovereignty to simply deport the forrin back to France? Or even slow the flow of boats? How about trade - we imposed UKCA rules on everyone else, that showed 'em. Oh, yeah.

Compared to the megalith trading blocks the UK is a small market. We no more get to dictate our small rules to the giant than JLR gets to dictate which parts it has to fit to vehicles sold in the US. Leave the EU? Sure. Leave the marketplace? Bonkers - and doubly so when the plan was no plan. Even "Lets Go WTO" suggested that they thought we would dictate the rules to the WTO. The opposite - we are already the supplicants.

In practice we already do what the EEA does because its expensive insanity not to - as witnessed by the UKCA debacle as one example. Most voters have no clue about any of this stuff other than what has been weaponised to them - on both sides. The LDs are right because we're looking at how we improve things now, not being bound by arguments of the past. We're *already* dynamically aligned with the EEA in most things. Imposing bullshit red tape and bureaucracy on ourselves is the biggest act of self harm since...

It's ironic really. The Brexiteers naively thought they were voting to take control when, in reality, they were voting for us to give up most of what control we had. Cheers, guys. We tried to tell you, but you wouldn't listen.

Casino_Royale said:

There's a real danger in conflating two positions here.

If you ask Britons if anything was the "right" decision in hindsight they are unlikely to say yes, unless it was something like 'standing up to Hitler in WWII'. We had some very strong figures on the death penalty only this week. And, within this, there could be buried all sorts of thinking, including from many Brexiteers that it hasn't succeeded in controlling immigration properly rather than the lazy assumption, as far too many believe out of confirmation bias, that it's a hankering for at least the single market and, fingers crossed, full reversal.

Pro-Brexit parties (Reform plus the Conservatives) are now regularly clocking a combined 50%+ in the polls, and are very able to strip away Starmer's majority and kick him very clearly into opposition.

It'd be a very brave move on his part to think that just because it was a psychodrama the first time round that people want an overturn to the status quo ante bellum and that'd make both them happy and him popular.

You make a very good point - "did you vote wrong" is never a good question to ask. The "Pro-Brexit" and anti-Brexit" labels still get used even though we're almost a decade beyond that argument. Brexit IS Brexit - it happened. The debate has to be what we do next - and that is the part where nobody seems to have a clue.

Dispassionately our existing trade and border model today does not work. Never mind Take Back Control, we have lost control. An example. Foot and Mouth outbreak in Germany, DEFRA rightly imposes import restrictions. Because we no longer have an operating agreement with the EEA we can't restrict to the affected region we have to ban Germany as a whole.

How do we enforce that? We have control of our borders, right? Wrong. Load sent in error from France with some German meat on board. Load arrives at Sevington BCP with paperwork showing Germany. Load is cleared for entry (and note that a dodgy operator could do anything on the run from Dover to Ashford before arriving at the Border Control Point...) and the truck departs Sevington.

One Whole Week Later an email demands the load be embargoed because it left Sevington with German meat on board. "It illegally left the BCP" claims the email "without the required import paperwork". Except that it left the BCP having had the paperwork - showing German meat - cleared and stamped by the BCP. One Whole Week Earlier.

What we have today patently does not work. Importers and exporters spend a lot of time and money preparing paperwork - especially faffy with food imports of which we have an awful lot. Paperwork which we have to check inland because nobody considered how we could build a physical border at Dover. At a facility incapable of doing the basics much of the time and incapable of doing them properly. With a management infrastructure that takes a whole week to flag any issues.

The status quo is unsustainable so we need to move to something else. Once you accept that statement of reality then the conversation about replacing it with something fit for purpose is easier.

Pro_Rata said:

Sandpit said:

Pro_Rata said:

Sandpit said:

carnforth said:

"Passenger plane collides with Army helicopter near Reagan Airport":

https://edition.cnn.com/us/live-news/plane-crash-dca-potomac-washington-dc-01-29-25/index.html

Oh sh!t, that looks terrible.

60 pax and 4 crew on the commercial flight on approach to the airport.
Three crew in the military helicopter departing.

How the Hell does that ever happen? Are the mil and civvy traffic at Reagan on different frequencies and speaking to different controllers, mil aircraft with no transponder etc?

Edit: just seen the picture posted above, not good. But it does show that both aircraft had serviceable transponders switched on.

18 confirmed dead, it will be a lot higher, likely no more than a handful of survivors if any.

We know US government is in staff meltdown, I'd expect ATC as a safety critical function to be somewhat immune, but what if this crash can, in DC no less, be attributed in some way to the immediate effects of Project 2025 dicking about?

There’s a long history of near-misses at Reagan, two or three in the last year alone. It’s a very complex piece of airspace and operation, that keeps getting busier.

Here’s a summary of one from last year:
https://x.com/theinsiderpaper/status/1796154851577000108

And another one:
https://x.com/flyinghighryan/status/1795984887301706199

Let’s wait and see, plane crashes really aren’t a time for politics.

Of course it took CNN about three minutes to start blaming Trump. Let’s not do that while they are still pulling bodies out of the water.
https://x.com/steveguest/status/1884811003252064419

Sorry, if Executive Orders have had any effect on the staffing rotas of that control tower today, then Trump is directly in line for this one, whatever other complex mix of causes comes to light. Especially because, not despite, the points you make about this particular bit of dangerous airspace.

To govern is to make life and death and life affecting decisions daily and anyone who isn't prepared for that shouldn't be there. It is in that context that the Trump administration is playing wildly fast and loose and if this is in part a consequence of that it should be highlighted.

As for politicisation of a disaster, I'll brook absolutely zero lecturing on that
from PB Tories who joined the
misinformational pile in for Southport, and that ramp MAGA. Sorry, but Trump is not just asking questions, he is straight up blaming ATC, so dead on valid, even at this early stage, to ask about the ATC set up that day and Trump's effect on it.

There was a good discussion, and some valid criticism, on that academic paper about the factualness of statements across the political spectrum, and I hope other academics approach that in different ways. But for all that, the high level results passed the sniff test with flying colours. Reform do bulk misinformational stuff and the Tories are heading that way. Fact. So don't take the Leeds United fan line of "I'll dish it out, but I'm not taking any of that". As Big G's apologia for all this went "it's politics, you're so naive". To your boys there is no such thing as "no time for politics"

The question of Trump's role in this stands asked, whatever the answer that eventually comes.

No, absolutely not.

The reason the aviation industry is as safe as it is, is because the politics has been completely removed from it.

This was the first fatal commercial plane crash in 15 years. The investigation will be a very long way removed from politics, despite its location and the likelyhood of well-known people being among the victims.

Taz said:

Dura_Ace said:

The Brexit numbers are pretty fucking amazing but we're going to need another three or four bad flu seasons to cull the leaver herd even more before the ever-cautious SKS will move to a new policy position. It's coming. Just not yet.

That would also help the affordability of the state pension.

I don't think rejoin will happen in our lifetime though.

If the nutty right take power on the continent, and Fresit or Dexit, there might not be much left to rejoin.

RochdalePioneers said:

The status quo is unsustainable so we need to move to something else. Once you accept that statement of reality then the conversation about replacing it with something fit for purpose is easier.

Except that is what got us into this mess

Brexit was a vote against the status quo with no clue what came next

The specific argument here is whether the original status quo (EU membership) is better than the current status quo (Brexit)

That's an unequivocal yes

Casino_Royale said:

When @Scott_xP sees this thread he's going to be so excited I reckon he has to bang one out at least three times, followed by a shower, before he can compose himself to "contribute".

Fuck off.

StillWaters said:

FF43 said:

Battlebus said:

Open question from a Remainer.

Hasn't the time to rejoin past? The effort to get up to speed again to rejoin would simply take cash and political bandwidth we don't have. Politics is difficult but reorienting business back to EU market would be even more so.

Time for some internal capacity building of state and business infrastructure before we relaunch into the wide, wide world again.

You can do two things when you make a mistake. You can correct it or you can live with it and move on. We're doing neither. We can't do either until we recognise as a country we screwed up and now need to do something different. None of the major parties is prepared to accept reality on this but the Lib Dems are probably the closest.

So what do you do about the lack of sovereignty? And the lack of direct control over immigration or trade policy?

All this polling shows is that things are a bit shit and people blame what the media writes about. Not necessarily the facts.

What do I think about sovereignty? An arrangement that ensures people don't get what they want, as implied by the poll, is a strange form of sovereignty. They could instead choose an arrangement that gives more of what they want.

Nobody cares about directly controlling trade policy only the effect of it, which is entirely damaged by Brexit. And by the way we still don't have border controls on goods entering the UK, just the other way round, for practical reasons. Not being able to limit our freedom of movement within Europe is a reasonable trade off people may or may not be willing to make.

Sandpit said:

This was the first fatal commercial plane crash in 15 years. The investigation will be a very long way removed from politics, despite its location and the likelyhood of well-known people being among the victims.

Politics is a key contributor

@alexkirshner.com‬
classic DCA thing is that it has a lot of routes that definitely only exist because some senator doesn't wanna fly through Dulles

@dreyesceron.bsky.social‬
right on cue during the first presser: Jerry Moran (R), Senator from Kansas, just said that he lobbied the hill for a direct flight from Kansas to DC which has been active for about a year now

Scott_xP said:

Casino_Royale said:

When @Scott_xP sees this thread he's going to be so excited I reckon he has to bang one out at least three times, followed by a shower, before he can compose himself to "contribute".

Fuck off.

Was it only twice, then?

Fishing said:

Jonathan said:

Brexit has proven to be, well, a bit rubbish. Lots of queues and paperwork. A bureaucrats dream.

I don’t see what we have to lose from signing us back up to the market Thatcher created as part of the growth plan.

The same reason that Mrs Thatcher turned heavily against it when she realised how rubbish it was.

We'd have no democratic control of the around 50-80% of legislation that passed through Parliament.

Even worse with full Rejoin, as we'd have to adopt the Euro, thereby losing control over our economic policy as well as our regulatory policy, and, as a debtor country, ending up with an unending series of economic crises.

And why would the EU even want us, despite our gigantic net contributions (from health? defence? education? where?), especially if the referendum result was very narrow, and we'd probably just want to leave again in a couple more years?

We were better off when we were in. So were they.

@BBCBreakfast

'The biggest disaster in my lifetime was us leaving the EU'

Ahead of a new series of The Apprentice, businessman Alan Sugar told #BBCBreakfast if he was Prime Minister he would 'get on his bended knees to be allowed back in'

https://x.com/BBCBreakfast/status/1884859159763451940

Leon said:

We will never Rejoin because it will never be worth any UK government expending the political capital required (and this is setting aside problems like the euro, Schenghen, a decade of negotiation, fisheries, migration, possible veto by any one of 27 EU nations)

Think about it. Why would you call a Rejoin referendum if you are doing well and you're high in the polls? You wouldn't take the risk, referendums are horribly risky, pointless

But then, why would you call a Rejoin referendum if you are doing badly and everyone hates you, again you are simply offering the voters a chance to give you a kicking and vote against anything you desire

The only way we might Rejoin is if we are literally starving to death and some national coalition proposes it as the only solution, but then the Europeans will surely veto us as a basket case that will drag down the EU economy

We are never going to Rejoin. It is not practical politics in the real world. Better to accept it

I think this looked to be true pre-Trump, and pre the time when Trumpism might shape the USA for the long term. I don't think it looks certain now.

Why? I know TRIP, the Rory and Campbell show, is not universally popular but the most recent discussion is pretty chilling on the evidence for the direction the USA is going in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0fdoOxkN4o

Leon said:

We will never Rejoin because it will never be worth any UK government expending the political capital required (and this is setting aside problems like the euro, Schenghen, a decade of negotiation, fisheries, migration, possible veto by any one of 27 EU nations)

Think about it. Why would you call a Rejoin referendum if you are doing well and you're high in the polls? You wouldn't take the risk, referendums are horribly risky, pointless

But then, why would you call a Rejoin referendum if you are doing badly and everyone hates you, again you are simply offering the voters a chance to give you a kicking and vote against anything you desire

The only way we might Rejoin is if we are literally starving to death and some national coalition proposes it as the only solution, but then the Europeans will surely veto us as a basket case that will drag down the EU economy

We are never going to Rejoin. It is not practical politics in the real world. Better to accept it

I can see rejoin. The nation is going to grow by over 5 million by 2032 and all of that will be driven by migration according to the ONS.

We will be a radically different country and Labour is considering expanding the right to vote to EU citizens. Why wouldn't they vote to rejoin if offered in a few years.

Leon said:

Scott_xP said:

Casino_Royale said:

When @Scott_xP sees this thread he's going to be so excited I reckon he has to bang one out at least three times, followed by a shower, before he can compose himself to "contribute".

Fuck off.

Was it only twice, then?

I was more surprised by the shower part.

Scott_xP said:

@BBCBreakfast

'The biggest disaster in my lifetime was us leaving the EU'

Ahead of a new series of The Apprentice, businessman Alan Sugar told #BBCBreakfast if he was Prime Minister he would 'get on his bended knees to be allowed back in'

https://x.com/BBCBreakfast/status/1884859159763451940

I just do not accept that leaving the EU is the biggest disaster in Sugar's lifetime and 'begging to rejoin' is hardly going to win votes

Brexit isn’t working, Rejoin is inevitable. It’s a question of how, how far, and when.

Might as well just get on with it.

Jonathan said:

Brexit isn’t working, Rejoin is inevitable. It’s a question of how, how far, and when.

Might as well just get on with it.

Rejoin is simply not inevitable

another_richard said:

If you want to use the 'Thatcher supported it' line then you need to recreate the socioeconomic situation of Thatcher's era.

Not really. The economic argument remains the same.

"Do you want to be able to buy and sell easily to a market of 500 million people?"

Hell yes...

Nigelb said:

TimS said:

Another irritating gotcha interview on the Today programme with the chief exec of water UK.

I know water companies aren’t hugely popular but the interview was ridiculous. It was more like a tetchy exchange on PB than an enlightening interview.

It was an expression of the frustration at the way in which no one - regulator or the industry owners - face of have any consequences for their decades of mismanagement.

And the consumer is expected to find the capital expansion of the industry fur the benefit of shareholders.

You can hardly blame an interviewer for a failure to grasp how to hold the industry to account, when four decades of government effort has done worse.

While there's been far too much greed and mismanagement in the water companies and regulators water bills don't seem to have increased for decades.

And Yorkshire doesn't have semi-permanent water restrictions as it did through much of the 1990s.

Mystified that the Will Of The People lads seem to think it only applies in certain contexts.

Leon said:

algarkirk said:

Leon said:

We will never Rejoin because it will never be worth any UK government expending the political capital required (and this is setting aside problems like the euro, Schenghen, a decade of negotiation, fisheries, migration, possible veto by any one of 27 EU nations)

Think about it. Why would you call a Rejoin referendum if you are doing well and you're high in the polls? You wouldn't take the risk, referendums are horribly risky, pointless

But then, why would you call a Rejoin referendum if you are doing badly and everyone hates you, again you are simply offering the voters a chance to give you a kicking and vote against anything you desire

The only way we might Rejoin is if we are literally starving to death and some national coalition proposes it as the only solution, but then the Europeans will surely veto us as a basket case that will drag down the EU economy

We are never going to Rejoin. It is not practical politics in the real world. Better to accept it

I think this looked to be true pre-Trump, and pre the time when Trumpism might shape the USA for the long term. I don't think it looks certain now.

Why? I know TRIP, the Rory and Campbell show, is not universally popular but the most recent discussion is pretty chilling on the evidence for the direction the USA is going in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0fdoOxkN4o

Rory fucking Stewart is a fucking imbecile. Really. Alistair Campbell is a depressed alcoholic with a huge guilt trip about Iraq. Together they have the political acuity of a cheese toastie

However, I said 95% certain we won't rejoin and not 100% because, black swans

A massive world war, or the USA become a hostile dictatorship would indeed be a very black swan and easily enough to see us back in the EU (and there would probably be even greater sequelae)

But, I don't any of these as more than 5% possibilities, combined

Point taken, though it is possible to miss the wood for your ad hominem trees. (And Rory was my MP, and I wish he still was, and he is genuinely interesting. They are both, in TS Eliot's words 'wounded surgeons').

In probabilities, I think the chance of straight Rejoin EU is fairly small, but the chance (say in the next generation) of some sort of deal, the Switzerland or Norway sort, is more like 30%.

Additionally, the chances of America ceasing to be an active ally and turning its attention away from Europe and NATO are not negligible. Wait and see. We are only 10 days in to the new reality.

Ah, another Remonaner thread on PB!

See you all tomorrow! Have fun!

algarkirk said:

Leon said:

algarkirk said:

Leon said:

We will never Rejoin because it will never be worth any UK government expending the political capital required (and this is setting aside problems like the euro, Schenghen, a decade of negotiation, fisheries, migration, possible veto by any one of 27 EU nations)

Think about it. Why would you call a Rejoin referendum if you are doing well and you're high in the polls? You wouldn't take the risk, referendums are horribly risky, pointless

But then, why would you call a Rejoin referendum if you are doing badly and everyone hates you, again you are simply offering the voters a chance to give you a kicking and vote against anything you desire

The only way we might Rejoin is if we are literally starving to death and some national coalition proposes it as the only solution, but then the Europeans will surely veto us as a basket case that will drag down the EU economy

We are never going to Rejoin. It is not practical politics in the real world. Better to accept it

I think this looked to be true pre-Trump, and pre the time when Trumpism might shape the USA for the long term. I don't think it looks certain now.

Why? I know TRIP, the Rory and Campbell show, is not universally popular but the most recent discussion is pretty chilling on the evidence for the direction the USA is going in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0fdoOxkN4o

Rory fucking Stewart is a fucking imbecile. Really. Alistair Campbell is a depressed alcoholic with a huge guilt trip about Iraq. Together they have the political acuity of a cheese toastie

However, I said 95% certain we won't rejoin and not 100% because, black swans

A massive world war, or the USA become a hostile dictatorship would indeed be a very black swan and easily enough to see us back in the EU (and there would probably be even greater sequelae)

But, I don't any of these as more than 5% possibilities, combined

Point taken, though it is possible to miss the wood for your ad hominem trees. (And Rory was my MP, and I wish he still was, and he is genuinely interesting. They are both, in TS Eliot's words 'wounded surgeons').

In probabilities, I think the chance of straight Rejoin EU is fairly small, but the chance (say in the next generation) of some sort of deal, the Switzerland or Norway sort, is more like 30%.

Additionally, the chances of America ceasing to be an active ally and turning its attention away from Europe and NATO are not negligible. Wait and see. We are only 10 days in to the new reality.

Their analysis of Trump (I just watched ten minutes of it) is on the level of a quite bright sixth former. I am regularly astonished by the way apparently clever people - such as you - buy this intellectual pap tricked out as powerful insight

Scott_xP said:

another_richard said:

If you want to use the 'Thatcher supported it' line then you need to recreate the socioeconomic situation of Thatcher's era.

Not really. The economic argument remains the same.

"Do you want to be able to buy and sell easily to a market of 500 million people?"

Hell yes...

We already can.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/nationalaccounts/balanceofpayments/timeseries/n3c5/ukea

Being in the single market might make it fractionally easier but at a cost of making it harder to trade with the rest of the world.

It would also allow unrestricted immigration from the EU.

So the question is do you want another million immigrants to reduce wages, increase housing costs and wander aimlessly around your town centre ?

another_richard said:

Nigelb said:

TimS said:

Another irritating gotcha interview on the Today programme with the chief exec of water UK.

I know water companies aren’t hugely popular but the interview was ridiculous. It was more like a tetchy exchange on PB than an enlightening interview.

It was an expression of the frustration at the way in which no one - regulator or the industry owners - face of have any consequences for their decades of mismanagement.

And the consumer is expected to find the capital expansion of the industry fur the benefit of shareholders.

You can hardly blame an interviewer for a failure to grasp how to hold the industry to account, when four decades of government effort has done worse.

While there's been far too much greed and mismanagement in the water companies and regulators water bills don't seem to have increased for decades.

And Yorkshire doesn't have semi-permanent water restrictions as it did through much of the 1990s.

Some data about the water industry can be downloaded here.

Public water supplied by the industry peaked in 1990. Water meters were almost unheard of in the early 1980s, and today over 60 per cent of properties have one. Average water bills have fallen from a peak of £440 per year in 2014/15 to £426 per year in 2020/21. Capital expenditure by the water industry was in decline until the mid-1980s and increased substantially following privatisation.

https://nic.org.uk/insights/long-term-trends-in-the-water-industry/#:~:text=Average water bills have fallen,and increased substantially following privatisation.

The numbers for closer ties, looser ties and stay the same add up to 110%. 10% of people want both closer ties and not closer ties.

Smart51 said:

The numbers for closer ties, looser ties and stay the same add up to 110%. 10% of people want both closer ties and not closer ties.

Very British

The Prince of Wales was subjected to chants of “Lizzie’s in a box” and “If you hate the Royal family, clap your hands” by Celtic fans during Aston Villa’s Champions League clash with the Scottish club.

Away supporters also displayed a banner in the stands glorifying an intruder who found his way into Queen Elizabeth II’s Buckingham Palace bedroom, days after Prince William was born.

The Prince of Wales, Villa’s most famous fan, attended Wednesday night’s match and was seen celebrating wildly as Villa raced into a 2-0 lead.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2025/01/29/celtic-fans-anti-royal-banners-in-front-of-prince-william/

Where is the question "join the EU as a full member including the euro and Schengen"?

TheScreamingEagles said:

The Prince of Wales was subjected to chants of “Lizzie’s in a box” and “If you hate the Royal family, clap your hands” by Celtic fans during Aston Villa’s Champions League clash with the Scottish club.

Away supporters also displayed a banner in the stands glorifying an intruder who found his way into Queen Elizabeth II’s Buckingham Palace bedroom, days after Prince William was born.

The Prince of Wales, Villa’s most famous fan, attended Wednesday night’s match and was seen celebrating wildly as Villa raced into a 2-0 lead.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2025/01/29/celtic-fans-anti-royal-banners-in-front-of-prince-william/

Even if you're into that sort of thing. It's a crap chant. Yeah she is in a box, she died in her late 90s of natural causes nearly 3 years ago. Unless they believe Liz Truss genuinely did bump her off.