Another irritating gotcha interview on the Today programme with the chief exec of water UK.
I know water companies aren’t hugely popular but the interview was ridiculous. It was more like a tetchy exchange on PB than an enlightening interview.
It was an expression of the frustration at the way in which no one - regulator or the industry owners - face of have any consequences for their decades of mismanagement.
And the consumer is expected to find the capital expansion of the industry fur the benefit of shareholders.
You can hardly blame an interviewer for a failure to grasp how to hold the industry to account, when four decades of government effort has done worse.
While there's been far too much greed and mismanagement in the water companies and regulators water bills don't seem to have increased for decades.
And Yorkshire doesn't have semi-permanent water restrictions as it did through much of the 1990s.
Some data about the water industry can be downloaded here.
Public water supplied by the industry peaked in 1990. Water meters were almost unheard of in the early 1980s, and today over 60 per cent of properties have one. Average water bills have fallen from a peak of £440 per year in 2014/15 to £426 per year in 2020/21. Capital expenditure by the water industry was in decline until the mid-1980s and increased substantially following privatisation.
Based on data from Ofwat, we can see how average bills have changed over recent years. And it shows that, remarkably, water bills have in fact decreased in real terms nearly every year since 2010.
...
Going further back in time, we can see that while water bills increased substantially in the first decade or so after privatisation – largely to meet new legal environmental requirements and overcome the systemic underfunding under the previous water authorities – they are broadly at the same level today that they were in the early 2000s.
Additionally, the chances of America ceasing to be an active ally and turning its attention away from Europe and NATO are not negligible. Wait and see. We are only 10 days in to the new reality.
The security concerns aren't going to drive the UK back to the EU. Even if NATO disbanded ,SKS would tongue DJT's tattered old hole to get a bilateral defence treaty with the US that reasserts British submission.
We will never Rejoin because it will never be worth any UK government expending the political capital required (and this is setting aside problems like the euro, Schenghen, a decade of negotiation, fisheries, migration, possible veto by any one of 27 EU nations)
Think about it. Why would you call a Rejoin referendum if you are doing well and you're high in the polls? You wouldn't take the risk, referendums are horribly risky, pointless
But then, why would you call a Rejoin referendum if you are doing badly and everyone hates you, again you are simply offering the voters a chance to give you a kicking and vote against anything you desire
The only way we might Rejoin is if we are literally starving to death and some national coalition proposes it as the only solution, but then the Europeans will surely veto us as a basket case that will drag down the EU economy
We are never going to Rejoin. It is not practical politics in the real world. Better to accept it
I think this looked to be true pre-Trump, and pre the time when Trumpism might shape the USA for the long term. I don't think it looks certain now.
Why? I know TRIP, the Rory and Campbell show, is not universally popular but the most recent discussion is pretty chilling on the evidence for the direction the USA is going in
Rory fucking Stewart is a fucking imbecile. Really. Alistair Campbell is a depressed alcoholic with a huge guilt trip about Iraq. Together they have the political acuity of a cheese toastie
However, I said 95% certain we won't rejoin and not 100% because, black swans
A massive world war, or the USA become a hostile dictatorship would indeed be a very black swan and easily enough to see us back in the EU (and there would probably be even greater sequelae)
But, I don't any of these as more than 5% possibilities, combined
Point taken, though it is possible to miss the wood for your ad hominem trees. (And Rory was my MP, and I wish he still was, and he is genuinely interesting. They are both, in TS Eliot's words 'wounded surgeons').
In probabilities, I think the chance of straight Rejoin EU is fairly small, but the chance (say in the next generation) of some sort of deal, the Switzerland or Norway sort, is more like 30%.
Additionally, the chances of America ceasing to be an active ally and turning its attention away from Europe and NATO are not negligible. Wait and see. We are only 10 days in to the new reality.
Their analysis of Trump (I just watched ten minutes of it) is on the level of a quite bright sixth former. I am regularly astonished by the way apparently clever people - such as you - buy this intellectual pap tricked out as powerful insight
Says the guy who voted for Starmer.
I'm watching more of it now, it's pure midwittery and entirely shite
Stewart has just said "Trump is calling for the ethnic cleansing of Gaza" which is such a ridiculous misreading it is either a deliberate lie OR more evidence that they really are quite dim
Trump thinks outside the box. He is saying "maybe the Gazans would be better off giving up on their shit lives in Gaza and having a much richer, more peaceful life elsewhere". And, of course, Trump has a very good point. Hamas wants the Palestinians trapped in Gaza forever, their misery endless, their suffering a constant source of grevance and militancy - because we all know Israel will never agree to a 2 state solution, not now
And yet Trump saying "Hey here's a better choice for Gazans than the endless pain that Hamas offers" is somehow Trump calling for ethnic cleansing?! According to Rory "wow who knew immigration was so high" Stewart?
Enuff. Only idiots are taken in by this pabulum. I am disappointed @algarkirk is one of them
We will never Rejoin because it will never be worth any UK government expending the political capital required (and this is setting aside problems like the euro, Schenghen, a decade of negotiation, fisheries, migration, possible veto by any one of 27 EU nations)
Think about it. Why would you call a Rejoin referendum if you are doing well and you're high in the polls? You wouldn't take the risk, referendums are horribly risky, pointless
But then, why would you call a Rejoin referendum if you are doing badly and everyone hates you, again you are simply offering the voters a chance to give you a kicking and vote against anything you desire
The only way we might Rejoin is if we are literally starving to death and some national coalition proposes it as the only solution, but then the Europeans will surely veto us as a basket case that will drag down the EU economy
We are never going to Rejoin. It is not practical politics in the real world. Better to accept it
I think this looked to be true pre-Trump, and pre the time when Trumpism might shape the USA for the long term. I don't think it looks certain now.
Why? I know TRIP, the Rory and Campbell show, is not universally popular but the most recent discussion is pretty chilling on the evidence for the direction the USA is going in
Rory fucking Stewart is a fucking imbecile. Really. Alistair Campbell is a depressed alcoholic with a huge guilt trip about Iraq. Together they have the political acuity of a cheese toastie
However, I said 95% certain we won't rejoin and not 100% because, black swans
A massive world war, or the USA become a hostile dictatorship would indeed be a very black swan and easily enough to see us back in the EU (and there would probably be even greater sequelae)
But, I don't any of these as more than 5% possibilities, combined
Point taken, though it is possible to miss the wood for your ad hominem trees. (And Rory was my MP, and I wish he still was, and he is genuinely interesting. They are both, in TS Eliot's words 'wounded surgeons').
In probabilities, I think the chance of straight Rejoin EU is fairly small, but the chance (say in the next generation) of some sort of deal, the Switzerland or Norway sort, is more like 30%.
Additionally, the chances of America ceasing to be an active ally and turning its attention away from Europe and NATO are not negligible. Wait and see. We are only 10 days in to the new reality.
Their analysis of Trump (I just watched ten minutes of it) is on the level of a quite bright sixth former. I am regularly astonished by the way apparently clever people - such as you - buy this intellectual pap tricked out as powerful insight
Says the guy who voted for Starmer.
It'll have to be a slow convergence back to where we almost were, that way Leavers can pretend "we've left and it's a success" while allowing everyone else to gradually regain the benefits and freedoms we used to enjoy.
So the question is do you want another million immigrants to reduce wages, increase housing costs and wander aimlessly around your town centre ?
Is immigration "better or worse" since Brexit?
I know the racists won the vote, but this was a discussion about economics.
Brexit is a failure on both.
The question is do you want more immigration because rejoining the single market will lead to more immigration.
But if you want to talk about economics are you happy or unhappy that we now have full employment and pay rises rather than the mass unemployment and pay cuts you predicted leaving the EU would bring ?
Where is the question "join the EU as a full member including the euro and Schengen"?
Judging by recent polling surely it should be "join the EU as a full member including the euro and Schengen, which Grant Shapps describes as a ridiculous idea"
So the question is do you want another million immigrants to reduce wages, increase housing costs and wander aimlessly around your town centre ?
Is immigration "better or worse" since Brexit?
I know the racists won the vote, but this was a discussion about economics.
Brexit is a failure on both.
The question is do you want more immigration because rejoining the single market will lead to more immigration.
But if you want to talk about economics are you happy or unhappy that we now have full employment and pay rises rather than the mass unemployment and pay cuts you predicted leaving the EU would bring ?
Seeing as we have had more immigration since leaving the single market your confidence in your assertion seems misplaced.
We will never Rejoin because it will never be worth any UK government expending the political capital required (and this is setting aside problems like the euro, Schenghen, a decade of negotiation, fisheries, migration, possible veto by any one of 27 EU nations)
Think about it. Why would you call a Rejoin referendum if you are doing well and you're high in the polls? You wouldn't take the risk, referendums are horribly risky, pointless
But then, why would you call a Rejoin referendum if you are doing badly and everyone hates you, again you are simply offering the voters a chance to give you a kicking and vote against anything you desire
The only way we might Rejoin is if we are literally starving to death and some national coalition proposes it as the only solution, but then the Europeans will surely veto us as a basket case that will drag down the EU economy
We are never going to Rejoin. It is not practical politics in the real world. Better to accept it
I think this looked to be true pre-Trump, and pre the time when Trumpism might shape the USA for the long term. I don't think it looks certain now.
Why? I know TRIP, the Rory and Campbell show, is not universally popular but the most recent discussion is pretty chilling on the evidence for the direction the USA is going in
Rory fucking Stewart is a fucking imbecile. Really. Alistair Campbell is a depressed alcoholic with a huge guilt trip about Iraq. Together they have the political acuity of a cheese toastie
However, I said 95% certain we won't rejoin and not 100% because, black swans
A massive world war, or the USA become a hostile dictatorship would indeed be a very black swan and easily enough to see us back in the EU (and there would probably be even greater sequelae)
But, I don't any of these as more than 5% possibilities, combined
Point taken, though it is possible to miss the wood for your ad hominem trees. (And Rory was my MP, and I wish he still was, and he is genuinely interesting. They are both, in TS Eliot's words 'wounded surgeons').
In probabilities, I think the chance of straight Rejoin EU is fairly small, but the chance (say in the next generation) of some sort of deal, the Switzerland or Norway sort, is more like 30%.
Additionally, the chances of America ceasing to be an active ally and turning its attention away from Europe and NATO are not negligible. Wait and see. We are only 10 days in to the new reality.
Their analysis of Trump (I just watched ten minutes of it) is on the level of a quite bright sixth former. I am regularly astonished by the way apparently clever people - such as you - buy this intellectual pap tricked out as powerful insight
Says the guy who voted for Starmer.
I'm watching more of it now, it's pure midwittery and entirely shite
Stewart has just said "Trump is calling for the ethnic cleansing of Gaza" which is such a ridiculous misreading it is either a deliberate lie OR more evidence that they really are quite dim
Trump thinks outside the box. He is saying "maybe the Gazans would be better off giving up on their shit lives in Gaza and having a much richer, more peaceful life elsewhere". And, of course, Trump has a very good point. Hamas wants the Palestinians trapped in Gaza forever, their misery endless, their suffering a constant source of grevance and militancy - because we all know Israel will never agree to a 2 state solution, not now
And yet Trump saying "Hey here's a better choice for Gazans than the endless pain that Hamas offers" is somehow Trump calling for ethnic cleansing?! According to Rory "wow who knew immigration was so high" Stewart?
Enuff. Only idiots are taken in by this pabulum. I am disappointed @algarkirk is one of them
I know two otherwise-sensible people who have paid actual money to see Stewart and Campbell in a theatre.
We will never Rejoin because it will never be worth any UK government expending the political capital required (and this is setting aside problems like the euro, Schenghen, a decade of negotiation, fisheries, migration, possible veto by any one of 27 EU nations)
Think about it. Why would you call a Rejoin referendum if you are doing well and you're high in the polls? You wouldn't take the risk, referendums are horribly risky, pointless
But then, why would you call a Rejoin referendum if you are doing badly and everyone hates you, again you are simply offering the voters a chance to give you a kicking and vote against anything you desire
The only way we might Rejoin is if we are literally starving to death and some national coalition proposes it as the only solution, but then the Europeans will surely veto us as a basket case that will drag down the EU economy
We are never going to Rejoin. It is not practical politics in the real world. Better to accept it
I think this looked to be true pre-Trump, and pre the time when Trumpism might shape the USA for the long term. I don't think it looks certain now.
Why? I know TRIP, the Rory and Campbell show, is not universally popular but the most recent discussion is pretty chilling on the evidence for the direction the USA is going in
Rory fucking Stewart is a fucking imbecile. Really. Alistair Campbell is a depressed alcoholic with a huge guilt trip about Iraq. Together they have the political acuity of a cheese toastie
However, I said 95% certain we won't rejoin and not 100% because, black swans
A massive world war, or the USA become a hostile dictatorship would indeed be a very black swan and easily enough to see us back in the EU (and there would probably be even greater sequelae)
But, I don't any of these as more than 5% possibilities, combined
Point taken, though it is possible to miss the wood for your ad hominem trees. (And Rory was my MP, and I wish he still was, and he is genuinely interesting. They are both, in TS Eliot's words 'wounded surgeons').
In probabilities, I think the chance of straight Rejoin EU is fairly small, but the chance (say in the next generation) of some sort of deal, the Switzerland or Norway sort, is more like 30%.
Additionally, the chances of America ceasing to be an active ally and turning its attention away from Europe and NATO are not negligible. Wait and see. We are only 10 days in to the new reality.
Their analysis of Trump (I just watched ten minutes of it) is on the level of a quite bright sixth former. I am regularly astonished by the way apparently clever people - such as you - buy this intellectual pap tricked out as powerful insight
Says the guy who voted for Starmer.
It'll have to be a slow convergence back to where we almost were, that way Leavers can pretend "we've left and it's a success" while allowing everyone else to gradually regain the benefits and freedoms we used to enjoy.
A bespoke deal, similar to membership, is a lot easier to sell politically both here and within the EU. Timeline, confident 2030s, not before, not after.
Where is the question "join the EU as a full member including the euro and Schengen"?
That's not a relevant question. Getting the UK back in, with the eurosceptics more humiliated than they already are, would be such a victory and validation of The Project that the EU would bend or outright abandon the rules to make it happen.
The Prince of Wales was subjected to chants of “Lizzie’s in a box” and “If you hate the Royal family, clap your hands” by Celtic fans during Aston Villa’s Champions League clash with the Scottish club.
Away supporters also displayed a banner in the stands glorifying an intruder who found his way into Queen Elizabeth II’s Buckingham Palace bedroom, days after Prince William was born.
The Prince of Wales, Villa’s most famous fan, attended Wednesday night’s match and was seen celebrating wildly as Villa raced into a 2-0 lead.
I see the Celtic fans are chatting about Michael Fagan, the intruder who made his way into the Late Queen's Buck House bedroom
I used to do smack with Michael Fagan, he told me all about it multiple times. Which raises the question, Am I the only PB-er that's done heroin with a notorious intruder into the Queen's boudoir. or maybe there are several of us and we could set up a WhatsApp group, Smacked Up Friends Of Royal Bedroom Prowlers?
DM me if you want to join, but it has to be a senior member of the royal family and it has to be heroin or one of the major opioids, crack cocaine at a push
"I used to do shrooms with a guy who snuck into Princess Eugenie's hot tub" simply doesn't cut it, not in this day and age
The Prince of Wales was subjected to chants of “Lizzie’s in a box” and “If you hate the Royal family, clap your hands” by Celtic fans during Aston Villa’s Champions League clash with the Scottish club.
Away supporters also displayed a banner in the stands glorifying an intruder who found his way into Queen Elizabeth II’s Buckingham Palace bedroom, days after Prince William was born.
The Prince of Wales, Villa’s most famous fan, attended Wednesday night’s match and was seen celebrating wildly as Villa raced into a 2-0 lead.
Even if you're into that sort of thing. It's a crap chant. Yeah she is in a box, she died in her late 90s of natural causes nearly 3 years ago. Unless they believe Liz Truss genuinely did bump her off.
As a fair minded and objective republican I am disgusted at the chant, fuck’s sake the guy’s granny died and you’re taking the piss, wind your necks in, there’s an inherent lack of class on the part of some Scots.
So the question is do you want another million immigrants to reduce wages, increase housing costs and wander aimlessly around your town centre ?
Is immigration "better or worse" since Brexit?
I know the racists won the vote, but this was a discussion about economics.
Brexit is a failure on both.
The question is do you want more immigration because rejoining the single market will lead to more immigration.
But if you want to talk about economics are you happy or unhappy that we now have full employment and pay rises rather than the mass unemployment and pay cuts you predicted leaving the EU would bring ?
Net migration was hovering around 200-300,000. Once we left it went up to 900,000.
We were getting about 400,000 EU nationals coming in every year. That's fallen off to less than 200,000 - but now have 1.1 million non-EU immigrants a year.
60 pax and 4 crew on the commercial flight on approach to the airport. Three crew in the military helicopter departing.
How the Hell does that ever happen? Are the mil and civvy traffic at Reagan on different frequencies and speaking to different controllers, mil aircraft with no transponder etc?
Edit: just seen the picture posted above, not good. But it does show that both aircraft had serviceable transponders switched on.
18 confirmed dead, it will be a lot higher, likely no more than a handful of survivors if any.
We know US government is in staff meltdown, I'd expect ATC as a safety critical function to be somewhat immune, but what if this crash can, in DC no less, be attributed in some way to the immediate effects of Project 2025 dicking about?
There’s a long history of near-misses at Reagan, two or three in the last year alone. It’s a very complex piece of airspace and operation, that keeps getting busier.
Sorry, if Executive Orders have had any effect on the staffing rotas of that control tower today, then Trump is directly in line for this one, whatever other complex mix of causes comes to light. Especially because, not despite, the points you make about this particular bit of dangerous airspace.
To govern is to make life and death and life affecting decisions daily and anyone who isn't prepared for that shouldn't be there. It is in that context that the Trump administration is playing wildly fast and loose and if this is in part a consequence of that it should be highlighted.
As for politicisation of a disaster, I'll brook absolutely zero lecturing on that from PB Tories who joined the misinformational pile in for Southport, and that ramp MAGA. Sorry, but Trump is not just asking questions, he is straight up blaming ATC, so dead on valid, even at this early stage, to ask about the ATC set up that day and Trump's effect on it.
There was a good discussion, and some valid criticism, on that academic paper about the factualness of statements across the political spectrum, and I hope other academics approach that in different ways. But for all that, the high level results passed the sniff test with flying colours. Reform do bulk misinformational stuff and the Tories are heading that way. Fact. So don't take the Leeds United fan line of "I'll dish it out, but I'm not taking any of that". As Big G's apologia for all this went "it's politics, you're so naive". To your boys there is no such thing as "no time for politics"
The question of Trump's role in this stands asked, whatever the answer that eventually comes.
No, absolutely not.
The reason the aviation industry is as safe as it is, is because the politics has been completely removed from it.
This was the first fatal commercial plane crash in 15 years. The investigation will be a very long way removed from politics, despite its location and the likelyhood of well-known people being among the victims.
Whilst I agree with your substantive point, Air Asiana 214 was the last fatal commercial plane crash in the USA before today; and it was 12 years ago. Only three died; one in a particularly tragic manner.
But I don't expect politics to remain out if civil aviation with Trump's lot in charge.
On the Trump aspect, he has frozen aiui essentially all communications from Federal agencies under his authoritarian brainstorm ("for review").
In addition to closing down Medicaid until he's copped what he's actually done, one example of something that did not go out was Centres for Disease Control Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report - for the first time in 60+ years. He's reckless as to the basic wellbeing of the country.
If you are going to create a pile of wreckage, it is always helpful personally to control any comms going out identifying the pile of wreckage. Which works except where the comms, or the staff, are important to preventing the thing happening in the first place.
It's the attempted cover up that will get him as per; it's a question of how far it has to go before MAGA Goons wake up.
So the question is do you want another million immigrants to reduce wages, increase housing costs and wander aimlessly around your town centre ?
Is immigration "better or worse" since Brexit?
I know the racists won the vote, but this was a discussion about economics.
Brexit is a failure on both.
The question is do you want more immigration because rejoining the single market will lead to more immigration.
But if you want to talk about economics are you happy or unhappy that we now have full employment and pay rises rather than the mass unemployment and pay cuts you predicted leaving the EU would bring ?
Well leaving the EU has demonstrably led to more immigration.
So either rejoining the EU would reduce it or membership of the EU does not significantly affect the level of immigration into the UK
When @Scott_xP sees this thread he's going to be so excited I reckon he has to bang one out at least three times, followed by a shower, before he can compose himself to "contribute".
The Prince of Wales was subjected to chants of “Lizzie’s in a box” and “If you hate the Royal family, clap your hands” by Celtic fans during Aston Villa’s Champions League clash with the Scottish club.
Away supporters also displayed a banner in the stands glorifying an intruder who found his way into Queen Elizabeth II’s Buckingham Palace bedroom, days after Prince William was born.
The Prince of Wales, Villa’s most famous fan, attended Wednesday night’s match and was seen celebrating wildly as Villa raced into a 2-0 lead.
Even if you're into that sort of thing. It's a crap chant. Yeah she is in a box, she died in her late 90s of natural causes nearly 3 years ago. Unless they believe Liz Truss genuinely did bump her off.
As a fair minded and objective republican I am disgusted at the chant, fuck’s sack the guy’s granny died and you’re taking the piss, wind your necks in, there’s an inherent lack of class on the part of some Scots.
The weird thing about Celtic fans isn't that so many of them are twats - that's true of fans of lots of teams - but that they have this weird tendency to take the moral high ground as if Rangers fans are unspeakably awful and Celtic fans are paragons of virtue.
The North West of England is not short of its share of twattish football fans, but AFAICS there is at least a smidgen of self-awareness about them all.
Where is the question "join the EU as a full member including the euro and Schengen"?
Judging by recent polling surely it should be "join the EU as a full member including the euro and Schengen, which Grant Shapps describes as a ridiculous idea"
I’m not sure which part of that changes my answer to yes. But the Grant Shapps bit is a clincher he’s as wrong as Ambrose Evans-Pritchard is
The Prince of Wales was subjected to chants of “Lizzie’s in a box” and “If you hate the Royal family, clap your hands” by Celtic fans during Aston Villa’s Champions League clash with the Scottish club.
Away supporters also displayed a banner in the stands glorifying an intruder who found his way into Queen Elizabeth II’s Buckingham Palace bedroom, days after Prince William was born.
The Prince of Wales, Villa’s most famous fan, attended Wednesday night’s match and was seen celebrating wildly as Villa raced into a 2-0 lead.
Even if you're into that sort of thing. It's a crap chant. Yeah she is in a box, she died in her late 90s of natural causes nearly 3 years ago. Unless they believe Liz Truss genuinely did bump her off.
As a fair minded and objective republican I am disgusted at the chant, fuck’s sack the guy’s granny died and you’re taking the piss, wind your necks in, there’s an inherent lack of class on the part of some Scots.
The weird thing about Celtic fans isn't that so many of them are twats - that's true of fans of lots of teams - but that they have this weird tendency to take the moral high ground as if Rangers fans are unspeakably awful and Celtic fans are paragons of virtue.
The North West of England is not short of its share of twattish football fans, but AFAICS there is at least a smidgen of self-awareness about them all.
Same for for Scot Nats in toto, and indeed quite a lot of Irish people
It stems from an historial inferiority complex which has been psychologically compensated by the self-delusion that "Yeah, but we are still morally better than them"
Given that Celtic FC exist at the intersection of Irishness and Scot Nattery its stance is therefore predictable
We will never Rejoin because it will never be worth any UK government expending the political capital required (and this is setting aside problems like the euro, Schenghen, a decade of negotiation, fisheries, migration, possible veto by any one of 27 EU nations)
Think about it. Why would you call a Rejoin referendum if you are doing well and you're high in the polls? You wouldn't take the risk, referendums are horribly risky, pointless
But then, why would you call a Rejoin referendum if you are doing badly and everyone hates you, again you are simply offering the voters a chance to give you a kicking and vote against anything you desire
The only way we might Rejoin is if we are literally starving to death and some national coalition proposes it as the only solution, but then the Europeans will surely veto us as a basket case that will drag down the EU economy
We are never going to Rejoin. It is not practical politics in the real world. Better to accept it
I think this looked to be true pre-Trump, and pre the time when Trumpism might shape the USA for the long term. I don't think it looks certain now.
Why? I know TRIP, the Rory and Campbell show, is not universally popular but the most recent discussion is pretty chilling on the evidence for the direction the USA is going in
Rory fucking Stewart is a fucking imbecile. Really. Alistair Campbell is a depressed alcoholic with a huge guilt trip about Iraq. Together they have the political acuity of a cheese toastie
However, I said 95% certain we won't rejoin and not 100% because, black swans
A massive world war, or the USA become a hostile dictatorship would indeed be a very black swan and easily enough to see us back in the EU (and there would probably be even greater sequelae)
But, I don't any of these as more than 5% possibilities, combined
Point taken, though it is possible to miss the wood for your ad hominem trees. (And Rory was my MP, and I wish he still was, and he is genuinely interesting. They are both, in TS Eliot's words 'wounded surgeons').
In probabilities, I think the chance of straight Rejoin EU is fairly small, but the chance (say in the next generation) of some sort of deal, the Switzerland or Norway sort, is more like 30%.
Additionally, the chances of America ceasing to be an active ally and turning its attention away from Europe and NATO are not negligible. Wait and see. We are only 10 days in to the new reality.
Their analysis of Trump (I just watched ten minutes of it) is on the level of a quite bright sixth former. I am regularly astonished by the way apparently clever people - such as you - buy this intellectual pap tricked out as powerful insight
Says the guy who voted for Starmer.
I'm watching more of it now, it's pure midwittery and entirely shite
Stewart has just said "Trump is calling for the ethnic cleansing of Gaza" which is such a ridiculous misreading it is either a deliberate lie OR more evidence that they really are quite dim
Trump thinks outside the box. He is saying "maybe the Gazans would be better off giving up on their shit lives in Gaza and having a much richer, more peaceful life elsewhere". And, of course, Trump has a very good point. Hamas wants the Palestinians trapped in Gaza forever, their misery endless, their suffering a constant source of grevance and militancy - because we all know Israel will never agree to a 2 state solution, not now
And yet Trump saying "Hey here's a better choice for Gazans than the endless pain that Hamas offers" is somehow Trump calling for ethnic cleansing?! According to Rory "wow who knew immigration was so high" Stewart?
Enuff. Only idiots are taken in by this pabulum. I am disappointed @algarkirk is one of them
Meanwhile I shall reflect on Aristotle's golden mean. PB is a good training.
Where is the question "join the EU as a full member including the euro and Schengen"?
That's not a relevant question. Getting the UK back in, with the eurosceptics more humiliated than they already are, would be such a victory and validation of The Project that the EU would bend or outright abandon the rules to make it happen.
Anybody who thinks otherwise doesn't know the EU.
Britain gets an opt-out from Schengen because Ireland has one. Britain commits to joining the euro when the time is right. Which is never.
We will never Rejoin because it will never be worth any UK government expending the political capital required (and this is setting aside problems like the euro, Schenghen, a decade of negotiation, fisheries, migration, possible veto by any one of 27 EU nations)
Think about it. Why would you call a Rejoin referendum if you are doing well and you're high in the polls? You wouldn't take the risk, referendums are horribly risky, pointless
But then, why would you call a Rejoin referendum if you are doing badly and everyone hates you, again you are simply offering the voters a chance to give you a kicking and vote against anything you desire
The only way we might Rejoin is if we are literally starving to death and some national coalition proposes it as the only solution, but then the Europeans will surely veto us as a basket case that will drag down the EU economy
We are never going to Rejoin. It is not practical politics in the real world. Better to accept it
I think this looked to be true pre-Trump, and pre the time when Trumpism might shape the USA for the long term. I don't think it looks certain now.
Why? I know TRIP, the Rory and Campbell show, is not universally popular but the most recent discussion is pretty chilling on the evidence for the direction the USA is going in
Rory fucking Stewart is a fucking imbecile. Really. Alistair Campbell is a depressed alcoholic with a huge guilt trip about Iraq. Together they have the political acuity of a cheese toastie
However, I said 95% certain we won't rejoin and not 100% because, black swans
A massive world war, or the USA become a hostile dictatorship would indeed be a very black swan and easily enough to see us back in the EU (and there would probably be even greater sequelae)
But, I don't any of these as more than 5% possibilities, combined
Point taken, though it is possible to miss the wood for your ad hominem trees. (And Rory was my MP, and I wish he still was, and he is genuinely interesting. They are both, in TS Eliot's words 'wounded surgeons').
In probabilities, I think the chance of straight Rejoin EU is fairly small, but the chance (say in the next generation) of some sort of deal, the Switzerland or Norway sort, is more like 30%.
Additionally, the chances of America ceasing to be an active ally and turning its attention away from Europe and NATO are not negligible. Wait and see. We are only 10 days in to the new reality.
Their analysis of Trump (I just watched ten minutes of it) is on the level of a quite bright sixth former. I am regularly astonished by the way apparently clever people - such as you - buy this intellectual pap tricked out as powerful insight
Says the guy who voted for Starmer.
I'm watching more of it now, it's pure midwittery and entirely shite
Stewart has just said "Trump is calling for the ethnic cleansing of Gaza" which is such a ridiculous misreading it is either a deliberate lie OR more evidence that they really are quite dim
Trump thinks outside the box. He is saying "maybe the Gazans would be better off giving up on their shit lives in Gaza and having a much richer, more peaceful life elsewhere". And, of course, Trump has a very good point. Hamas wants the Palestinians trapped in Gaza forever, their misery endless, their suffering a constant source of grevance and militancy - because we all know Israel will never agree to a 2 state solution, not now
And yet Trump saying "Hey here's a better choice for Gazans than the endless pain that Hamas offers" is somehow Trump calling for ethnic cleansing?! According to Rory "wow who knew immigration was so high" Stewart?
Enuff. Only idiots are taken in by this pabulum. I am disappointed @algarkirk is one of them
I know two otherwise-sensible people who have paid actual money to see Stewart and Campbell in a theatre.
Destroying a region's infrastructure, blocking supplies and encouraging the inhabitants to seek refuge elsewhere so that other people (of a different ethnicity) can move in and build their own homes and infrastructure funded by government isn't ethnic cleansing? He may not be directly calling for it but he is tacitly supporting it.
So the question is do you want another million immigrants to reduce wages, increase housing costs and wander aimlessly around your town centre ?
Is immigration "better or worse" since Brexit?
I know the racists won the vote, but this was a discussion about economics.
Brexit is a failure on both.
The question is do you want more immigration because rejoining the single market will lead to more immigration.
But if you want to talk about economics are you happy or unhappy that we now have full employment and pay rises rather than the mass unemployment and pay cuts you predicted leaving the EU would bring ?
Seeing as we have had more immigration since leaving the single market your confidence in your assertion seems misplaced.
So what ? Do you think any of that wouldn't have happened if we were in the EU ? Do you think that Hong Kongers or Ukrainians refugees or Chinese students or Nigerian nurses would not have migrated to the UK ?
So the questions are:
Do you think more people would move from the EU to the UK to work or vice versa ?
Do you think more people would move from the EU to the UK to aimlessly wander around town centres or vice versa ?
Now its possible to think that increased migration from the EU is overall a good thing - it might well be if you benefit from lower pay rates and higher housing costs.
But lets not have any pretending that re-joining the single market would not lead to substantially higher net immigration.
The Prince of Wales was subjected to chants of “Lizzie’s in a box” and “If you hate the Royal family, clap your hands” by Celtic fans during Aston Villa’s Champions League clash with the Scottish club.
Away supporters also displayed a banner in the stands glorifying an intruder who found his way into Queen Elizabeth II’s Buckingham Palace bedroom, days after Prince William was born.
The Prince of Wales, Villa’s most famous fan, attended Wednesday night’s match and was seen celebrating wildly as Villa raced into a 2-0 lead.
Even if you're into that sort of thing. It's a crap chant. Yeah she is in a box, she died in her late 90s of natural causes nearly 3 years ago. Unless they believe Liz Truss genuinely did bump her off.
As a fair minded and objective republican I am disgusted at the chant, fuck’s sack the guy’s granny died and you’re taking the piss, wind your necks in, there’s an inherent lack of class on the part of some Scots.
The weird thing about Celtic fans isn't that so many of them are twats - that's true of fans of lots of teams - but that they have this weird tendency to take the moral high ground as if Rangers fans are unspeakably awful and Celtic fans are paragons of virtue.
The North West of England is not short of its share of twattish football fans, but AFAICS there is at least a smidgen of self-awareness about them all.
Just heard about the plane crash. How could something like this happen?
As I said on the previous thread, I would be very surprised if there had not been previous near-misses of this sort of incident before. The Swiss-cheese model probably applies: a series of small mistakes by individuals and inapt processes all coincided at the same time. How much weight is put on each causal factor will hopefully come out in the inquiry - and the NTSB are usually excellent in that regard.
Another irritating gotcha interview on the Today programme with the chief exec of water UK.
I know water companies aren’t hugely popular but the interview was ridiculous. It was more like a tetchy exchange on PB than an enlightening interview.
It was an expression of the frustration at the way in which no one - regulator or the industry owners - face of have any consequences for their decades of mismanagement.
And the consumer is expected to find the capital expansion of the industry fur the benefit of shareholders.
You can hardly blame an interviewer for a failure to grasp how to hold the industry to account, when four decades of government effort has done worse.
Labour need to empower the regulator to break up the existing stupid and reimagine these utility sectors. They were privatised with the goal of profiting from ageing infrastructure - hence the minimal investment in renewal and modernisation. Great for them, less great for the country.
But they are regulated - so regulate them. You will deliver x levels of service or we withdraw your rights to run this infrastructure. That means the company raising the capital needed or getting ousted and presumably losing all of the value of the company.
They were regulated. For decades, the policy was
1) tap water quality 2) hold prices down 3) infrastructure bad - to the point of government blocking new reservoirs. 4) snore - that’s the regulator falling asleep at this point
So the water companies had big profits and made the shareholders happy.
And since the population was stable, a rolling program of replacing existing infrastructure was all that was required.
Where is the question "join the EU as a full member including the euro and Schengen"?
The Euro that Sweden still hasn't joined after 29 years?
If we ever did try to Rejoin (highly unlikely but let's run with it) the EU would want the absolute guarantee - and fair enough - that we aren't going to sit there carping and moaning and asking for opt-outs, before voting to quit again in five years
The one obvious way to do that is to demand euro membership, for us, from day 1. Because once you are in the euro you can never leave. We would have to join the euro if we ever want back in the EU
The Prince of Wales was subjected to chants of “Lizzie’s in a box” and “If you hate the Royal family, clap your hands” by Celtic fans during Aston Villa’s Champions League clash with the Scottish club.
Away supporters also displayed a banner in the stands glorifying an intruder who found his way into Queen Elizabeth II’s Buckingham Palace bedroom, days after Prince William was born.
The Prince of Wales, Villa’s most famous fan, attended Wednesday night’s match and was seen celebrating wildly as Villa raced into a 2-0 lead.
Even if you're into that sort of thing. It's a crap chant. Yeah she is in a box, she died in her late 90s of natural causes nearly 3 years ago. Unless they believe Liz Truss genuinely did bump her off.
As a fair minded and objective republican I am disgusted at the chant, fuck’s sack the guy’s granny died and you’re taking the piss, wind your necks in, there’s an inherent lack of class on the part of some Scots.
I think Her late Maj be more exorcised about Charlie going against her wishes with HMS Achilles tbh
We will never Rejoin because it will never be worth any UK government expending the political capital required (and this is setting aside problems like the euro, Schenghen, a decade of negotiation, fisheries, migration, possible veto by any one of 27 EU nations)
Think about it. Why would you call a Rejoin referendum if you are doing well and you're high in the polls? You wouldn't take the risk, referendums are horribly risky, pointless
But then, why would you call a Rejoin referendum if you are doing badly and everyone hates you, again you are simply offering the voters a chance to give you a kicking and vote against anything you desire
The only way we might Rejoin is if we are literally starving to death and some national coalition proposes it as the only solution, but then the Europeans will surely veto us as a basket case that will drag down the EU economy
We are never going to Rejoin. It is not practical politics in the real world. Better to accept it
I think this looked to be true pre-Trump, and pre the time when Trumpism might shape the USA for the long term. I don't think it looks certain now.
Why? I know TRIP, the Rory and Campbell show, is not universally popular but the most recent discussion is pretty chilling on the evidence for the direction the USA is going in
Rory fucking Stewart is a fucking imbecile. Really. Alistair Campbell is a depressed alcoholic with a huge guilt trip about Iraq. Together they have the political acuity of a cheese toastie
However, I said 95% certain we won't rejoin and not 100% because, black swans
A massive world war, or the USA become a hostile dictatorship would indeed be a very black swan and easily enough to see us back in the EU (and there would probably be even greater sequelae)
But, I don't any of these as more than 5% possibilities, combined
Point taken, though it is possible to miss the wood for your ad hominem trees. (And Rory was my MP, and I wish he still was, and he is genuinely interesting. They are both, in TS Eliot's words 'wounded surgeons').
In probabilities, I think the chance of straight Rejoin EU is fairly small, but the chance (say in the next generation) of some sort of deal, the Switzerland or Norway sort, is more like 30%.
Additionally, the chances of America ceasing to be an active ally and turning its attention away from Europe and NATO are not negligible. Wait and see. We are only 10 days in to the new reality.
Their analysis of Trump (I just watched ten minutes of it) is on the level of a quite bright sixth former. I am regularly astonished by the way apparently clever people - such as you - buy this intellectual pap tricked out as powerful insight
Says the guy who voted for Starmer.
I'm watching more of it now, it's pure midwittery and entirely shite
Stewart has just said "Trump is calling for the ethnic cleansing of Gaza" which is such a ridiculous misreading it is either a deliberate lie OR more evidence that they really are quite dim
Trump thinks outside the box. He is saying "maybe the Gazans would be better off giving up on their shit lives in Gaza and having a much richer, more peaceful life elsewhere". And, of course, Trump has a very good point. Hamas wants the Palestinians trapped in Gaza forever, their misery endless, their suffering a constant source of grevance and militancy - because we all know Israel will never agree to a 2 state solution, not now
And yet Trump saying "Hey here's a better choice for Gazans than the endless pain that Hamas offers" is somehow Trump calling for ethnic cleansing?! According to Rory "wow who knew immigration was so high" Stewart?
Enuff. Only idiots are taken in by this pabulum. I am disappointed @algarkirk is one of them
I know two otherwise-sensible people who have paid actual money to see Stewart and Campbell in a theatre.
I'd be more likely to go and hear Bad Al and Rory the Tory than I would say the News Agents.
I know that in some areas they have significant specialist and personal knowledge beyond what I have, whereas Maitlis, Lewis Goodall et al seem to be repeating fairly general current affairs stuff I was aware of a fortnight previously.
The News Agents are more like a "Portrait of the Week" column, with relatively little depth.
I'm more questioning of the format than the quality.
The Prince of Wales was subjected to chants of “Lizzie’s in a box” and “If you hate the Royal family, clap your hands” by Celtic fans during Aston Villa’s Champions League clash with the Scottish club.
Away supporters also displayed a banner in the stands glorifying an intruder who found his way into Queen Elizabeth II’s Buckingham Palace bedroom, days after Prince William was born.
The Prince of Wales, Villa’s most famous fan, attended Wednesday night’s match and was seen celebrating wildly as Villa raced into a 2-0 lead.
Even if you're into that sort of thing. It's a crap chant. Yeah she is in a box, she died in her late 90s of natural causes nearly 3 years ago. Unless they believe Liz Truss genuinely did bump her off.
As a fair minded and objective republican I am disgusted at the chant, fuck’s sack the guy’s granny died and you’re taking the piss, wind your necks in, there’s an inherent lack of class on the part of some Scots.
The weird thing about Celtic fans isn't that so many of them are twats - that's true of fans of lots of teams - but that they have this weird tendency to take the moral high ground as if Rangers fans are unspeakably awful and Celtic fans are paragons of virtue.
The North West of England is not short of its share of twattish football fans, but AFAICS there is at least a smidgen of self-awareness about them all.
They seem to have an element of self-pitying bitterness in the same way some scousers do.
I wonder if it is affected by how both Liverpool and Glasgow have fallen behind their rivals of Manchester and Edinburgh in affluence and importance.
Didn't both Liverpool and Glasgow once claim to be 'second city of the Empire' ?
Well going from second city of the Empire to second city of their region is a heavy relegation.
So the question is do you want another million immigrants to reduce wages, increase housing costs and wander aimlessly around your town centre ?
Is immigration "better or worse" since Brexit?
I know the racists won the vote, but this was a discussion about economics.
Brexit is a failure on both.
The question is do you want more immigration because rejoining the single market will lead to more immigration.
But if you want to talk about economics are you happy or unhappy that we now have full employment and pay rises rather than the mass unemployment and pay cuts you predicted leaving the EU would bring ?
Seeing as we have had more immigration since leaving the single market your confidence in your assertion seems misplaced.
So what ? Do you think any of that wouldn't have happened if we were in the EU ? Do you think that Hong Kongers or Ukrainians refugees or Chinese students or Nigerian nurses would not have migrated to the UK ?
So the questions are:
Do you think more people would move from the EU to the UK to work or vice versa ?
Do you think more people would move from the EU to the UK to aimlessly wander around town centres or vice versa ?
Now its possible to think that increased migration from the EU is overall a good thing - it might well be if you benefit from lower pay rates and higher housing costs.
But lets not have any pretending that re-joining the single market would not lead to substantially higher net immigration.
I think students and workers from the EU are much more likely to return to where they came from in the long run - and you can see that in the emigration stats. So our universities enjoy the same fees and our businesses a very strong talent pool, but perhaps not on a permanent basis, reducing pressure on housing on public services and housing.
Where is the question "join the EU as a full member including the euro and Schengen"?
That's not a relevant question. Getting the UK back in, with the eurosceptics more humiliated than they already are, would be such a victory and validation of The Project that the EU would bend or outright abandon the rules to make it happen.
Anybody who thinks otherwise doesn't know the EU.
Agree. And it's nothing to do with humiliating anyone, they need the cash. They'd be waiting for it with a long sliver of drool like a labrador waiting for his biscuit.
Sadly for our euroloon contingent, I don’t think it's at the top of Prime Minister Farage's prority list.
We will never Rejoin because it will never be worth any UK government expending the political capital required (and this is setting aside problems like the euro, Schenghen, a decade of negotiation, fisheries, migration, possible veto by any one of 27 EU nations)
Think about it. Why would you call a Rejoin referendum if you are doing well and you're high in the polls? You wouldn't take the risk, referendums are horribly risky, pointless
But then, why would you call a Rejoin referendum if you are doing badly and everyone hates you, again you are simply offering the voters a chance to give you a kicking and vote against anything you desire
The only way we might Rejoin is if we are literally starving to death and some national coalition proposes it as the only solution, but then the Europeans will surely veto us as a basket case that will drag down the EU economy
We are never going to Rejoin. It is not practical politics in the real world. Better to accept it
I think this looked to be true pre-Trump, and pre the time when Trumpism might shape the USA for the long term. I don't think it looks certain now.
Why? I know TRIP, the Rory and Campbell show, is not universally popular but the most recent discussion is pretty chilling on the evidence for the direction the USA is going in
Rory fucking Stewart is a fucking imbecile. Really. Alistair Campbell is a depressed alcoholic with a huge guilt trip about Iraq. Together they have the political acuity of a cheese toastie
However, I said 95% certain we won't rejoin and not 100% because, black swans
A massive world war, or the USA become a hostile dictatorship would indeed be a very black swan and easily enough to see us back in the EU (and there would probably be even greater sequelae)
But, I don't any of these as more than 5% possibilities, combined
Point taken, though it is possible to miss the wood for your ad hominem trees. (And Rory was my MP, and I wish he still was, and he is genuinely interesting. They are both, in TS Eliot's words 'wounded surgeons').
In probabilities, I think the chance of straight Rejoin EU is fairly small, but the chance (say in the next generation) of some sort of deal, the Switzerland or Norway sort, is more like 30%.
Additionally, the chances of America ceasing to be an active ally and turning its attention away from Europe and NATO are not negligible. Wait and see. We are only 10 days in to the new reality.
Their analysis of Trump (I just watched ten minutes of it) is on the level of a quite bright sixth former. I am regularly astonished by the way apparently clever people - such as you - buy this intellectual pap tricked out as powerful insight
Says the guy who voted for Starmer.
I'm watching more of it now, it's pure midwittery and entirely shite
Stewart has just said "Trump is calling for the ethnic cleansing of Gaza" which is such a ridiculous misreading it is either a deliberate lie OR more evidence that they really are quite dim
Trump thinks outside the box. He is saying "maybe the Gazans would be better off giving up on their shit lives in Gaza and having a much richer, more peaceful life elsewhere". And, of course, Trump has a very good point. Hamas wants the Palestinians trapped in Gaza forever, their misery endless, their suffering a constant source of grevance and militancy - because we all know Israel will never agree to a 2 state solution, not now
And yet Trump saying "Hey here's a better choice for Gazans than the endless pain that Hamas offers" is somehow Trump calling for ethnic cleansing?! According to Rory "wow who knew immigration was so high" Stewart?
Enuff. Only idiots are taken in by this pabulum. I am disappointed @algarkirk is one of them
I know two otherwise-sensible people who have paid actual money to see Stewart and Campbell in a theatre.
Destroying a region's infrastructure, blocking supplies and encouraging the inhabitants to seek refuge elsewhere so that other people (of a different ethnicity) can move in and build their own homes and infrastructure funded by government isn't ethnic cleansing? He may not be directly calling for it but he is tacitly supporting it.
Trump is offering a better future for Gazans than Hamas or the Palestinian Authority are offering. Its realpolitik
Also, it's not like this is some unprecedented evil; deliberate population movements - to solve intractable problems - happen all the time. Greeks and Turks after WW1, Muslims and Hindus at Partition, Germans after WW2, and many others
The alternative is that the Palestinians continue to squat there in perpetual misery because
1. Israel now won't ever yield to a two state solution
and
2. The Palestinians cannot defeat Israel, and nor can anyone else without nuking them (and getting nuked in return) and thereby rendering the entire Levant uninhabitable for 20,000 years
The Prince of Wales was subjected to chants of “Lizzie’s in a box” and “If you hate the Royal family, clap your hands” by Celtic fans during Aston Villa’s Champions League clash with the Scottish club.
Away supporters also displayed a banner in the stands glorifying an intruder who found his way into Queen Elizabeth II’s Buckingham Palace bedroom, days after Prince William was born.
The Prince of Wales, Villa’s most famous fan, attended Wednesday night’s match and was seen celebrating wildly as Villa raced into a 2-0 lead.
Even if you're into that sort of thing. It's a crap chant. Yeah she is in a box, she died in her late 90s of natural causes nearly 3 years ago. Unless they believe Liz Truss genuinely did bump her off.
As a fair minded and objective republican I am disgusted at the chant, fuck’s sack the guy’s granny died and you’re taking the piss, wind your necks in, there’s an inherent lack of class on the part of some Scots.
The weird thing about Celtic fans isn't that so many of them are twats - that's true of fans of lots of teams - but that they have this weird tendency to take the moral high ground as if Rangers fans are unspeakably awful and Celtic fans are paragons of virtue.
The North West of England is not short of its share of twattish football fans, but AFAICS there is at least a smidgen of self-awareness about them all.
Hung out a lot at McChuils have you? As an Aberdeen fan for my sins, on the moral high ground thing I can observe a difference is that Rangers fans tend to be the ones who live the dream, eg actually being up to their knees in Fenian blood after stabbing people with green and white on.
The Prince of Wales was subjected to chants of “Lizzie’s in a box” and “If you hate the Royal family, clap your hands” by Celtic fans during Aston Villa’s Champions League clash with the Scottish club.
Away supporters also displayed a banner in the stands glorifying an intruder who found his way into Queen Elizabeth II’s Buckingham Palace bedroom, days after Prince William was born.
The Prince of Wales, Villa’s most famous fan, attended Wednesday night’s match and was seen celebrating wildly as Villa raced into a 2-0 lead.
Even if you're into that sort of thing. It's a crap chant. Yeah she is in a box, she died in her late 90s of natural causes nearly 3 years ago. Unless they believe Liz Truss genuinely did bump her off.
As a fair minded and objective republican I am disgusted at the chant, fuck’s sack the guy’s granny died and you’re taking the piss, wind your necks in, there’s an inherent lack of class on the part of some Scots.
I think Her late Maj be more exorcised about Charlie going against her wishes with HMS Achilles tbh
I was broadly in favour of us rejoining the EU as a long-term project, sometime in the 2030s. However, now I've read that Alan Sugar is also in favour of rejoining, I'm having second thoughts.
We will never Rejoin because it will never be worth any UK government expending the political capital required (and this is setting aside problems like the euro, Schenghen, a decade of negotiation, fisheries, migration, possible veto by any one of 27 EU nations)
Think about it. Why would you call a Rejoin referendum if you are doing well and you're high in the polls? You wouldn't take the risk, referendums are horribly risky, pointless
But then, why would you call a Rejoin referendum if you are doing badly and everyone hates you, again you are simply offering the voters a chance to give you a kicking and vote against anything you desire
The only way we might Rejoin is if we are literally starving to death and some national coalition proposes it as the only solution, but then the Europeans will surely veto us as a basket case that will drag down the EU economy
We are never going to Rejoin. It is not practical politics in the real world. Better to accept it
I think this looked to be true pre-Trump, and pre the time when Trumpism might shape the USA for the long term. I don't think it looks certain now.
Why? I know TRIP, the Rory and Campbell show, is not universally popular but the most recent discussion is pretty chilling on the evidence for the direction the USA is going in
Rory fucking Stewart is a fucking imbecile. Really. Alistair Campbell is a depressed alcoholic with a huge guilt trip about Iraq. Together they have the political acuity of a cheese toastie
However, I said 95% certain we won't rejoin and not 100% because, black swans
A massive world war, or the USA become a hostile dictatorship would indeed be a very black swan and easily enough to see us back in the EU (and there would probably be even greater sequelae)
But, I don't any of these as more than 5% possibilities, combined
Point taken, though it is possible to miss the wood for your ad hominem trees. (And Rory was my MP, and I wish he still was, and he is genuinely interesting. They are both, in TS Eliot's words 'wounded surgeons').
In probabilities, I think the chance of straight Rejoin EU is fairly small, but the chance (say in the next generation) of some sort of deal, the Switzerland or Norway sort, is more like 30%.
Additionally, the chances of America ceasing to be an active ally and turning its attention away from Europe and NATO are not negligible. Wait and see. We are only 10 days in to the new reality.
Their analysis of Trump (I just watched ten minutes of it) is on the level of a quite bright sixth former. I am regularly astonished by the way apparently clever people - such as you - buy this intellectual pap tricked out as powerful insight
Says the guy who voted for Starmer.
I'm watching more of it now, it's pure midwittery and entirely shite
Stewart has just said "Trump is calling for the ethnic cleansing of Gaza" which is such a ridiculous misreading it is either a deliberate lie OR more evidence that they really are quite dim
Trump thinks outside the box. He is saying "maybe the Gazans would be better off giving up on their shit lives in Gaza and having a much richer, more peaceful life elsewhere". And, of course, Trump has a very good point. Hamas wants the Palestinians trapped in Gaza forever, their misery endless, their suffering a constant source of grevance and militancy - because we all know Israel will never agree to a 2 state solution, not now
And yet Trump saying "Hey here's a better choice for Gazans than the endless pain that Hamas offers" is somehow Trump calling for ethnic cleansing?! According to Rory "wow who knew immigration was so high" Stewart?
Enuff. Only idiots are taken in by this pabulum. I am disappointed @algarkirk is one of them
I know two otherwise-sensible people who have paid actual money to see Stewart and Campbell in a theatre.
Destroying a region's infrastructure, blocking supplies and encouraging the inhabitants to seek refuge elsewhere so that other people (of a different ethnicity) can move in and build their own homes and infrastructure funded by government isn't ethnic cleansing? He may not be directly calling for it but he is tacitly supporting it.
Trump is offering a better future for Gazans than Hamas or the Palestinian Authority are offering. Its realpolitik
Also, it's not like this is some unprecedented evil; deliberate population movements - to solve intractable problems - happen all the time. Greeks and Turks after WW1, Muslims and Hindus at Partition, Germans after WW2, and many others
The alternative is that the Palestinians continue to squat there in perpetual misery because
1. Israel now won't ever yield to a two state solution
and
2. The Palestinians cannot defeat Israel, and nor can anyone else without nuking them (and getting nuked in return) and thereby rendering the entire Levant uninhabitable for 20,000 years
What wonderful examples of things that aren't 'ethnic cleansing'. Idiot.
Rejoining the EU would clearly give us an economic boost, & we're obviously a nation that can't take advantage of any of the benefits of leaving given the shitshow that's happened since we left.
Rachel Reeves has been repeating for 24 hours that no full length runways have been built and opened since the 1940s. Both humans and AI chatbots say she is mistaken. In fact, says Mr Smith and Ms DeepSeek
“The last full-length runway built and opened in the UK was at **Manchester Airport**. The **second runway**, which is 3,048 meters (10,000 feet) long, was completed and officially opened in **February 2001**. This project marked the first full-length runway constructed at a major UK airport in over 50 years, designed to accommodate large commercial aircraft and increase capacity.”
Rachel Reeves has been repeating for 24 hours that no full length runways have been built and opened since the 1940s. Both humans and AI chatbots say she is mistaken. In fact, says Mr Smith and Ms DeepSeek
“The last full-length runway built and opened in the UK was at **Manchester Airport**. The **second runway**, which is 3,048 meters (10,000 feet) long, was completed and officially opened in **February 2001**. This project marked the first full-length runway constructed at a major UK airport in over 50 years, designed to accommodate large commercial aircraft and increase capacity.”
I heard her say that on the radio, and it sounded odd at the time.
The Prince of Wales was subjected to chants of “Lizzie’s in a box” and “If you hate the Royal family, clap your hands” by Celtic fans during Aston Villa’s Champions League clash with the Scottish club.
Away supporters also displayed a banner in the stands glorifying an intruder who found his way into Queen Elizabeth II’s Buckingham Palace bedroom, days after Prince William was born.
The Prince of Wales, Villa’s most famous fan, attended Wednesday night’s match and was seen celebrating wildly as Villa raced into a 2-0 lead.
Even if you're into that sort of thing. It's a crap chant. Yeah she is in a box, she died in her late 90s of natural causes nearly 3 years ago. Unless they believe Liz Truss genuinely did bump her off.
As a fair minded and objective republican I am disgusted at the chant, fuck’s sack the guy’s granny died and you’re taking the piss, wind your necks in, there’s an inherent lack of class on the part of some Scots.
I think Her late Maj be more exorcised about Charlie going against her wishes with HMS Achilles tbh
She probably didn't know anything about it. It was only renamed from Ajax to Agincourt in 2018 by the Fireplace Salesman as the tories were going through a bout of who-can-be-the-most-brexitiest at the time. She was 90% gaga in 2018.
The Prince of Wales was subjected to chants of “Lizzie’s in a box” and “If you hate the Royal family, clap your hands” by Celtic fans during Aston Villa’s Champions League clash with the Scottish club.
Away supporters also displayed a banner in the stands glorifying an intruder who found his way into Queen Elizabeth II’s Buckingham Palace bedroom, days after Prince William was born.
The Prince of Wales, Villa’s most famous fan, attended Wednesday night’s match and was seen celebrating wildly as Villa raced into a 2-0 lead.
Even if you're into that sort of thing. It's a crap chant. Yeah she is in a box, she died in her late 90s of natural causes nearly 3 years ago. Unless they believe Liz Truss genuinely did bump her off.
As a fair minded and objective republican I am disgusted at the chant, fuck’s sack the guy’s granny died and you’re taking the piss, wind your necks in, there’s an inherent lack of class on the part of some Scots.
I think Her late Maj be more exorcised about Charlie going against her wishes with HMS Achilles tbh
Republic now!
HMS Agincourt
HMS Waterloo
HMS Trafalgar
HMS Mers-el-Kébir
HMS You’d Be Speaking German If It Wasn’t For Us
Are the names I want.
If you want to announce superiority over the French.
HMS Quiberon Bay HMS Lagos HMS Quebec HMS Plassey
Personally I'm not bothered.
I'd rather the discussion be how small the RN is rather than what names we use.
We will never Rejoin because it will never be worth any UK government expending the political capital required (and this is setting aside problems like the euro, Schenghen, a decade of negotiation, fisheries, migration, possible veto by any one of 27 EU nations)
Think about it. Why would you call a Rejoin referendum if you are doing well and you're high in the polls? You wouldn't take the risk, referendums are horribly risky, pointless
But then, why would you call a Rejoin referendum if you are doing badly and everyone hates you, again you are simply offering the voters a chance to give you a kicking and vote against anything you desire
The only way we might Rejoin is if we are literally starving to death and some national coalition proposes it as the only solution, but then the Europeans will surely veto us as a basket case that will drag down the EU economy
We are never going to Rejoin. It is not practical politics in the real world. Better to accept it
I think this looked to be true pre-Trump, and pre the time when Trumpism might shape the USA for the long term. I don't think it looks certain now.
Why? I know TRIP, the Rory and Campbell show, is not universally popular but the most recent discussion is pretty chilling on the evidence for the direction the USA is going in
Rory fucking Stewart is a fucking imbecile. Really. Alistair Campbell is a depressed alcoholic with a huge guilt trip about Iraq. Together they have the political acuity of a cheese toastie
However, I said 95% certain we won't rejoin and not 100% because, black swans
A massive world war, or the USA become a hostile dictatorship would indeed be a very black swan and easily enough to see us back in the EU (and there would probably be even greater sequelae)
But, I don't any of these as more than 5% possibilities, combined
Point taken, though it is possible to miss the wood for your ad hominem trees. (And Rory was my MP, and I wish he still was, and he is genuinely interesting. They are both, in TS Eliot's words 'wounded surgeons').
In probabilities, I think the chance of straight Rejoin EU is fairly small, but the chance (say in the next generation) of some sort of deal, the Switzerland or Norway sort, is more like 30%.
Additionally, the chances of America ceasing to be an active ally and turning its attention away from Europe and NATO are not negligible. Wait and see. We are only 10 days in to the new reality.
Their analysis of Trump (I just watched ten minutes of it) is on the level of a quite bright sixth former. I am regularly astonished by the way apparently clever people - such as you - buy this intellectual pap tricked out as powerful insight
Says the guy who voted for Starmer.
I'm watching more of it now, it's pure midwittery and entirely shite
Stewart has just said "Trump is calling for the ethnic cleansing of Gaza" which is such a ridiculous misreading it is either a deliberate lie OR more evidence that they really are quite dim
Trump thinks outside the box. He is saying "maybe the Gazans would be better off giving up on their shit lives in Gaza and having a much richer, more peaceful life elsewhere". And, of course, Trump has a very good point. Hamas wants the Palestinians trapped in Gaza forever, their misery endless, their suffering a constant source of grevance and militancy - because we all know Israel will never agree to a 2 state solution, not now
And yet Trump saying "Hey here's a better choice for Gazans than the endless pain that Hamas offers" is somehow Trump calling for ethnic cleansing?! According to Rory "wow who knew immigration was so high" Stewart?
Enuff. Only idiots are taken in by this pabulum. I am disappointed @algarkirk is one of them
I know two otherwise-sensible people who have paid actual money to see Stewart and Campbell in a theatre.
Destroying a region's infrastructure, blocking supplies and encouraging the inhabitants to seek refuge elsewhere so that other people (of a different ethnicity) can move in and build their own homes and infrastructure funded by government isn't ethnic cleansing? He may not be directly calling for it but he is tacitly supporting it.
Trump is offering a better future for Gazans than Hamas or the Palestinian Authority are offering. Its realpolitik
Also, it's not like this is some unprecedented evil; deliberate population movements - to solve intractable problems - happen all the time. Greeks and Turks after WW1, Muslims and Hindus at Partition, Germans after WW2, and many others
The alternative is that the Palestinians continue to squat there in perpetual misery because
1. Israel now won't ever yield to a two state solution
and
2. The Palestinians cannot defeat Israel, and nor can anyone else without nuking them (and getting nuked in return) and thereby rendering the entire Levant uninhabitable for 20,000 years
What wonderful examples of things that aren't 'ethnic cleansing'. Idiot.
Which is why I called it a “ridiculous misreading” of Trump
I mean, go ahead and call it “ethnic cleansing” if you want, that enables you to ignore the fact it’s actually an imaginative and humane solution to this hideous 70 year nightmare
In an ideal world Israelis would get over October 7 and ask for 2 states and Gazans would not be enraged anti Semites. But this is not an ideal world, and Trump has bruited the only possible solution that might make Palestinian lives a lot better and fast while giving Israel security
Where is the question "join the EU as a full member including the euro and Schengen"?
That's not a relevant question. Getting the UK back in, with the eurosceptics more humiliated than they already are, would be such a victory and validation of The Project that the EU would bend or outright abandon the rules to make it happen.
Anybody who thinks otherwise doesn't know the EU.
Agree. And it's nothing to do with humiliating anyone, they need the cash. They'd be waiting for it with a long sliver of drool like a labrador waiting for his biscuit.
Sadly for our euroloon contingent, I don’t think it's at the top of Prime Minister Farage's prority list.
Given the wide range of political views in the EU and more importantly, the perception of sacrifice, I would disagree.
By sacrifice, I mean the perception among politicians and people that they have removed local tariffs and protectionism in the EU, and all kinds of other local politico-economic stuff. All to make the Single Market.
This is why there is a unanimous voice against concessions on such things.
“We’ve all sacrificed to make this work. Nobody gets an out, otherwise everyone would want a little exception.”
So I would expect that any future Rejoin would be on the standard, existing process to join the EU.
Which I think is utterly reasonable, from the EU point of view.
The numbers for closer ties, looser ties and stay the same add up to 110%. 10% of people want both closer ties and not closer ties.
That is essentially what polling has shown quite consistently. The EU that British people want to be a member of does not exist. Maybe the EEC was close, before Masstricht and the EU, and of course we have had Lisbon since then too.
EFTA might be a good compromise, if not for the indivisible four freedoms, where free movement has been consistenly unpopular in the UK.
I expect we will have closer relations with the EU, but it's probably going to require some bending of the rules. In an increasingly hostile world the EU should be trying to get the UK back on side as far as is possible. When it comes to things like defence and security, science, and trade the EU and UK should put aside some of the ideology and focus on pratical aims that can be delivered ASAP.
Status Quo Ante is impossible. Even if we said "Mea Culpa, let us back in", it won't happen. Both sides need to agree, and there is a process for countries to follow. We're not stable on this topic - only the LibDems are clearly in favour, the Tories are against, Reform are on the rise and are heavily against.
If you were the EU would you welcome us back in with open arms?
A market deal - trade and not politics - is possible. But even that is likely hard with Reform on the rise.
However unworkable the current arrangements are, we seem to be heading further along the path towards further barriers. And politically it will be difficult to avoid this because large parts of our economy are broken and we're sliding further to the populist right.
I often imagine when you post your edgy, anarchist adjacent posts, that you are really a retired corner shop keeper, a little podgy, who dresses like whichever of Wallace and Gromit is the human.
You spend your weekends carefully driving your showroom condition Honda Accord out of your wooden garage behind your former mining town terrace and polishing it lovingly dreaming of one day owning a Jag XK8 if you see one in burgundy for £2,500.
I like to think you spend your days on those chat sites for ex military, absorbing the stories and the lingo and dreaming of the shower scene from top gun.
It’s just so much more believable that the cringey, try-hard edgelord character you project on here.
Rejoining the EU would clearly give us an economic boost, & we're obviously a nation that can't take advantage of any of the benefits of leaving given the shitshow that's happened since we left.
I think it would perhaps add 0.3-0.4% GDP from the removal of some frictional barriers, in exchange for free movement again, budget contributions and all the political problems of a confederal union focused on unity. We'd also lose regulatory control over emerging tech, such as AI
Frustration, both on economic growth and migration, would continue together with our domestic political discourse being dominated by machinations in Brussels all over again.
I often imagine when you post your edgy, anarchist adjacent posts, that you are really a retired corner shop keeper, a little podgy, who dresses like whichever of Wallace and Gromit is the human.
You spend your weekends carefully driving your showroom condition Honda Accord out of your wooden garage behind your former mining town terrace and polishing it lovingly dreaming of one day owning a Jag XK8 if you see one in burgundy for £2,500.
I like to think you spend your days on those chat sites for ex military, absorbing the stories and the lingo and dreaming of the shower scene from top gun.
It’s just so much more believable that the cringey, try-hard edgelord character you project on here.
Were you not here on the day @Dura_Ace inadvertently revealed he’s a big fan of One Foot in the Grave?
It was quite the moment of unexpected clarity and new perspective on a PBer. Almost as good as NPXMP quietly mic-dropping The Swissnick
Status Quo Ante is impossible. Even if we said "Mea Culpa, let us back in", it won't happen. Both sides need to agree, and there is a process for countries to follow. We're not stable on this topic - only the LibDems are clearly in favour, the Tories are against, Reform are on the rise and are heavily against.
If you were the EU would you welcome us back in with open arms?
A market deal - trade and not politics - is possible. But even that is likely hard with Reform on the rise.
However unworkable the current arrangements are, we seem to be heading further along the path towards further barriers. And politically it will be difficult to avoid this because large parts of our economy are broken and we're sliding further to the populist right.
Indeed all this talk about rejoining the EU is mince, if Labour don't perform an economic miracle we could easily end up with a Reform government. And before that I expect a full-blown crisis courtesy of Trump, it seems almost inevitable given what we have seen in the last 10 days or so.
Rachel Reeves has been repeating for 24 hours that no full length runways have been built and opened since the 1940s. Both humans and AI chatbots say she is mistaken. In fact, says Mr Smith and Ms DeepSeek
“The last full-length runway built and opened in the UK was at **Manchester Airport**. The **second runway**, which is 3,048 meters (10,000 feet) long, was completed and officially opened in **February 2001**. This project marked the first full-length runway constructed at a major UK airport in over 50 years, designed to accommodate large commercial aircraft and increase capacity.”
I heard her say that on the radio, and it sounded odd at the time.
Without checking, what about Stansted?
And Good Morning one and all; Bright and sunny here, if a touch chilly.
Where is the question "join the EU as a full member including the euro and Schengen"?
That's not a relevant question. Getting the UK back in, with the eurosceptics more humiliated than they already are, would be such a victory and validation of The Project that the EU would bend or outright abandon the rules to make it happen.
Anybody who thinks otherwise doesn't know the EU.
Hah. If we ask to Rejoin, they're going to make damn sure we can never try to Leave again. That means euro and Schengen membership.
The owner of Hinkley Point C in Somerset has warned that the much-delayed construction of Britain’s first new nuclear power plant in a generation could face further hold-ups due to a row over its impact on local fish.
The nuclear developer, EDF Energy, warned that the “lengthy process” to agree to a solution with local communities to protect fish in the River Severn had “the potential to delay the operation of the power station”.
European Union law. I am glad you (and Labour it would appear) are coming round to using our Brexit freedoms.
You come out with this every time this sort of thing happens. It is the classic straight banana fallacy:
a) I don't know whether you have noticed but we left and it wasn't yesterday. So not the EU then. They have no say over this.
b) It is being built by a French company who have built quite a few in France, who are in the EU. So again not an EU issue is it, if it isn't a problem for France?
It is either not an EU issue at all (like the straight banana and many other false claims), or if it is most likely gold plated like we did with many of the regulations, or it is for very good reasons that we actually agree with.
As Andrew Tyrie said to Boris when being questioned on just this stuff in the Treasury Select Committee 'All very interesting Boris. Except none of it is really true, is it?'
Just heard about the plane crash. How could something like this happen?
Until you actually fly to/from Reagan airport you don’t appreciate how close/frequent military helicopters are to the flight routes.
First I saw it I got all worried but the stewardesses and other passengers said it was a regular occurrence.
It was like the first time I flew to land at Kai Tak.
We flew with friends who regularly visited Hong Kong and as a joke my friend’s father said to sit by the window and there’s nothing to worry about unless I see buildings and water.
My first landing at Kai Tak I thought "Gosh! Those buildings are close! And I'm on the upper deck....."
I was broadly in favour of us rejoining the EU as a long-term project, sometime in the 2030s. However, now I've read that Alan Sugar is also in favour of rejoining, I'm having second thoughts.
Alan Sugar might be Britain's most well known businessman.
Although some might say Richard Branson.
Thirty, even forty, years ago they would also have been contenders for that title.
Which perhaps highlights that something went wrong with the UK economy.
Who else has become a well known 'British businessman' since then ?
James Dyson and Jim Ratcliffe perhaps - both of whom are in their 70s.
Where is the question "join the EU as a full member including the euro and Schengen"?
That's not a relevant question. Getting the UK back in, with the eurosceptics more humiliated than they already are, would be such a victory and validation of The Project that the EU would bend or outright abandon the rules to make it happen.
Anybody who thinks otherwise doesn't know the EU.
Britain gets an opt-out from Schengen because Ireland has one. Britain commits to joining the euro when the time is right. Which is never.
Still not happening any time soon, if ever.
Ireland has an opt out from Schengen because the UK had one. If we Rejoin, they'll lose their opt out too.
On topic. I was a Brexit voter, still would be. Being shackled to a corpse which has the ability to pass silly regulations still isn't appealing to me.
However, if someone wants to put a referendum in a manifesto, win the election, then win a referendum, they should go for it. That can surely be the only way we rejoin. So won't happen before 2032 at the earliest.
Rejoining the EU would clearly give us an economic boost, & we're obviously a nation that can't take advantage of any of the benefits of leaving given the shitshow that's happened since we left.
So the Tory governments of 2019-2024 are the best possible governments? Possibly true, but deeply worrying if so.
The owner of Hinkley Point C in Somerset has warned that the much-delayed construction of Britain’s first new nuclear power plant in a generation could face further hold-ups due to a row over its impact on local fish.
The nuclear developer, EDF Energy, warned that the “lengthy process” to agree to a solution with local communities to protect fish in the River Severn had “the potential to delay the operation of the power station”.
Rachel Reeves has been repeating for 24 hours that no full length runways have been built and opened since the 1940s. Both humans and AI chatbots say she is mistaken. In fact, says Mr Smith and Ms DeepSeek
“The last full-length runway built and opened in the UK was at **Manchester Airport**. The **second runway**, which is 3,048 meters (10,000 feet) long, was completed and officially opened in **February 2001**. This project marked the first full-length runway constructed at a major UK airport in over 50 years, designed to accommodate large commercial aircraft and increase capacity.”
I heard her say that on the radio, and it sounded odd at the time.
Without checking, what about Stansted?
And Good Morning one and all; Bright and sunny here, if a touch chilly.
Stansted was an old WW2 airfield, RAF Stansted Mounftichet, named after the nearby ancient Mountfitchet castle. The castle itself was built conveniently right beside Stansted Mounftichet railway station.
(Some facts in this comment are deliberately wrong, but not necessarily in the way you might think...)
I was broadly in favour of us rejoining the EU as a long-term project, sometime in the 2030s. However, now I've read that Alan Sugar is also in favour of rejoining, I'm having second thoughts.
I hear you, we’ve also got Piers Morgan on our side too.
Just heard about the plane crash. How could something like this happen?
Until you actually fly to/from Reagan airport you don’t appreciate how close/frequent military helicopters are to the flight routes.
First I saw it I got all worried but the stewardesses and other passengers said it was a regular occurrence.
It was like the first time I flew to land at Kai Tak.
We flew with friends who regularly visited Hong Kong and as a joke my friend’s father said to sit by the window and there’s nothing to worry about unless I see buildings and water.
My first landing at Kai Tak I thought "Gosh! Those buildings are close! And I'm on the upper deck....."
Rejoining the EU would clearly give us an economic boost, & we're obviously a nation that can't take advantage of any of the benefits of leaving given the shitshow that's happened since we left.
So the Tory governments of 2019-2024 are the best possible governments? Possibly true, but deeply worrying if so.
I'm sure we could and should have done better.
But its easy to imagine governments which would have done worse.
A Corbyn-McDonnell government would certainly have been worse.
Rejoining the EU would clearly give us an economic boost, & we're obviously a nation that can't take advantage of any of the benefits of leaving given the shitshow that's happened since we left.
That being the issue. If we haven't been able to benefit from being out, why would you think we'd benefit by being in? Our fiscal position would be worsened, and we would continue to see vast trade imbalances due to the untrammelled free market in goods, and the lack of a free market in services.
The solution clearly lies internally. The EU is like sticking an elastoplast over hernia, and always has been. Didn't reverse our decline in the 70's, and wouldn't now.
Where is the question "join the EU as a full member including the euro and Schengen"?
That's not a relevant question. Getting the UK back in, with the eurosceptics more humiliated than they already are, would be such a victory and validation of The Project that the EU would bend or outright abandon the rules to make it happen.
Anybody who thinks otherwise doesn't know the EU.
Britain gets an opt-out from Schengen because Ireland has one. Britain commits to joining the euro when the time is right. Which is never.
Still not happening any time soon, if ever.
Ireland has an opt out from Schengen because the UK had one. If we Rejoin, they'll lose their opt out too.
Why? I mean this Rejoin speculation is all a complete fantasy, but Ireland certainly can't be compelled to give up its optout, even if the rest of the EU for some reason wanted it to (which they wouldn't if they wanted the UK to rejoin). The argument that the EU would insist on Schengen to make sure the UK never leaves again (also made on PB today) makes no sense to me, leaving Schengen would be just about the simplest bit of leaving the EU.
Besides, if Germany actually introduces 'permanent' border controls rather than the 'temporary' ones in place now as Merz is promising, Schengen will be finished by the end of this year anyway.
The Prince of Wales was subjected to chants of “Lizzie’s in a box” and “If you hate the Royal family, clap your hands” by Celtic fans during Aston Villa’s Champions League clash with the Scottish club.
Away supporters also displayed a banner in the stands glorifying an intruder who found his way into Queen Elizabeth II’s Buckingham Palace bedroom, days after Prince William was born.
The Prince of Wales, Villa’s most famous fan, attended Wednesday night’s match and was seen celebrating wildly as Villa raced into a 2-0 lead.
Even if you're into that sort of thing. It's a crap chant. Yeah she is in a box, she died in her late 90s of natural causes nearly 3 years ago. Unless they believe Liz Truss genuinely did bump her off.
As a fair minded and objective republican I am disgusted at the chant, fuck’s sack the guy’s granny died and you’re taking the piss, wind your necks in, there’s an inherent lack of class on the part of some Scots.
I think Her late Maj be more exorcised about Charlie going against her wishes with HMS Achilles tbh
Republic now!
HMS Agincourt
HMS Waterloo
HMS Trafalgar
HMS Mers-el-Kébir
HMS You’d Be Speaking German If It Wasn’t For Us
Are the names I want.
HMS Cromwell (see Churchill vs the King on that)
Also rename the Ministry of Defence, The War Office
Rejoining the EU would clearly give us an economic boost, & we're obviously a nation that can't take advantage of any of the benefits of leaving given the shitshow that's happened since we left.
That being the issue. If we haven't been able to benefit from being out, why would you think we'd benefit by being in? Our fiscal position would be worsened, and we would continue to see vast trade imbalances due to the untrammelled free market in goods, and the lack of a free market in services.
The solution clearly lies internally. The EU is like sticking an elastoplast over hernia, and always has been. Didn't reverse our decline in the 70's, and wouldn't now.
On an immediate point it'd lower our costs and usage of various EU based accountants as an SME. Having said that, the rise in sterling wouldn't be great for us as a business
So the question is do you want another million immigrants to reduce wages, increase housing costs and wander aimlessly around your town centre ?
Is immigration "better or worse" since Brexit?
I know the racists won the vote, but this was a discussion about economics.
Brexit is a failure on both.
The question is do you want more immigration because rejoining the single market will lead to more immigration.
But if you want to talk about economics are you happy or unhappy that we now have full employment and pay rises rather than the mass unemployment and pay cuts you predicted leaving the EU would bring ?
Seeing as we have had more immigration since leaving the single market your confidence in your assertion seems misplaced.
So what ? Do you think any of that wouldn't have happened if we were in the EU ? Do you think that Hong Kongers or Ukrainians refugees or Chinese students or Nigerian nurses would not have migrated to the UK ?
So the questions are:
Do you think more people would move from the EU to the UK to work or vice versa ?
Do you think more people would move from the EU to the UK to aimlessly wander around town centres or vice versa ?
Now its possible to think that increased migration from the EU is overall a good thing - it might well be if you benefit from lower pay rates and higher housing costs.
But lets not have any pretending that re-joining the single market would not lead to substantially higher net immigration.
I think students and workers from the EU are much more likely to return to where they came from in the long run - and you can see that in the emigration stats. So our universities enjoy the same fees and our businesses a very strong talent pool, but perhaps not on a permanent basis, reducing pressure on housing on public services and housing.
Yes, immigration happened because of our demographics, not our EU membership. Leaving the EU changed the nature of our immigration far more than it has changed the number. It is an open and arguable question whether the number would have been higher or lower if we still had EU membership. I'm skeptical of those who claim to know the answer to this hypothetical either way.
Just heard about the plane crash. How could something like this happen?
Until you actually fly to/from Reagan airport you don’t appreciate how close/frequent military helicopters are to the flight routes.
First I saw it I got all worried but the stewardesses and other passengers said it was a regular occurrence.
It was like the first time I flew to land at Kai Tak.
We flew with friends who regularly visited Hong Kong and as a joke my friend’s father said to sit by the window and there’s nothing to worry about unless I see buildings and water.
My first landing at Kai Tak I thought "Gosh! Those buildings are close! And I'm on the upper deck....."
Is that you Leon?
I much prefer it in the back with the hoi poloi.
“Hoi polloi” means “the masses”. So you’ve just said
I was broadly in favour of us rejoining the EU as a long-term project, sometime in the 2030s. However, now I've read that Alan Sugar is also in favour of rejoining, I'm having second thoughts.
Alan Sugar might be Britain's most well known businessman.
Although some might say Richard Branson.
Thirty, even forty, years ago they would also have been contenders for that title.
Which perhaps highlights that something went wrong with the UK economy.
Who else has become a well known 'British businessman' since then ?
James Dyson and Jim Ratcliffe perhaps - both of whom are in their 70s.
Any others ?
We’ve gone from Laura Ashley or Anita Roddick to Michelle Mone…
Rachel Reeves has been repeating for 24 hours that no full length runways have been built and opened since the 1940s. Both humans and AI chatbots say she is mistaken. In fact, says Mr Smith and Ms DeepSeek
“The last full-length runway built and opened in the UK was at **Manchester Airport**. The **second runway**, which is 3,048 meters (10,000 feet) long, was completed and officially opened in **February 2001**. This project marked the first full-length runway constructed at a major UK airport in over 50 years, designed to accommodate large commercial aircraft and increase capacity.”
I heard her say that on the radio, and it sounded odd at the time.
Without checking, what about Stansted?
And Good Morning one and all; Bright and sunny here, if a touch chilly.
Stansted was an old WW2 airfield, RAF Stansted Mounftichet, named after the nearby ancient Mountfitchet castle. The castle itself was built conveniently right beside Stansted Mounftichet railway station.
(Some facts in this comment are deliberately wrong, but not necessarily in the way you might think...)
Yes, after I posted (silly me) I went and checked. All the development seems to have been on the terminal and on making more parking and turning space for planes.
As far as the castle is concerned, it's a bit like Windsor, isn't it. As an American was heard to remark, you'd think they'd have built it away from the flight path to Heathrow! (Allegedly)
Rachel Reeves has been repeating for 24 hours that no full length runways have been built and opened since the 1940s. Both humans and AI chatbots say she is mistaken. In fact, says Mr Smith and Ms DeepSeek
“The last full-length runway built and opened in the UK was at **Manchester Airport**. The **second runway**, which is 3,048 meters (10,000 feet) long, was completed and officially opened in **February 2001**. This project marked the first full-length runway constructed at a major UK airport in over 50 years, designed to accommodate large commercial aircraft and increase capacity.”
I heard her say that on the radio, and it sounded odd at the time.
Without checking, what about Stansted?
And Good Morning one and all; Bright and sunny here, if a touch chilly.
Stansted was an old WW2 airfield, RAF Stansted Mounftichet, named after the nearby ancient Mountfitchet castle. The castle itself was built conveniently right beside Stansted Mounftichet railway station.
(Some facts in this comment are deliberately wrong, but not necessarily in the way you might think...)
Yes, this isn't suiting us. It's lonely. We're cold and scared. It's time to swallow our pride and go home. No need for apologies. The flounce happened for a reason. It was part of growing up.
I was broadly in favour of us rejoining the EU as a long-term project, sometime in the 2030s. However, now I've read that Alan Sugar is also in favour of rejoining, I'm having second thoughts.
Alan Sugar might be Britain's most well known businessman.
Although some might say Richard Branson.
Thirty, even forty, years ago they would also have been contenders for that title.
Which perhaps highlights that something went wrong with the UK economy.
Who else has become a well known 'British businessman' since then ?
James Dyson and Jim Ratcliffe perhaps - both of whom are in their 70s.
Any others ?
We’ve gone from Laura Ashley or Anita Roddick to Michelle Mone…
That BrewDog Tory guy with the trophy celebrity girlfriend is pretty high profile, plus all the newer faces on Dragons Den, and of course Gary Neville.
The owner of Hinkley Point C in Somerset has warned that the much-delayed construction of Britain’s first new nuclear power plant in a generation could face further hold-ups due to a row over its impact on local fish.
The nuclear developer, EDF Energy, warned that the “lengthy process” to agree to a solution with local communities to protect fish in the River Severn had “the potential to delay the operation of the power station”.
European Union law. I am glad you (and Labour it would appear) are coming round to using our Brexit freedoms.
You come out with this every time this sort of thing happens. It is the classic straight banana fallacy:
a) I don't know whether you have noticed but we left and it wasn't yesterday. So not the EU then. They have no say over this.
b) It is being built by a French company who have built quite a few in France, who are in the EU. So again not an EU issue is it, if it isn't a problem for France?
It is either not an EU issue at all (like the straight banana and many other false claims), or if it is most likely gold plated like we did with many of the regulations, or it is for very good reasons that we actually agree with.
As Andrew Tyrie said to Boris when being questioned on just this stuff in the Treasury Select Committee 'All very interesting Boris. Except none of it is really true, is it?'
I come out with it every time because it's true every time.
a) Yes we left, but EU retained law is still on our statute book and is still enforced by our agencies. If you agree that these laws should be revoked, that's great, but as of now they are still very much in force.
b) I don’t know, but I expect it is because the French agencies responsible are considerably less officious and more sensible than their British counterparts, and make their decisions based upon a looser interpretation of the law and a better grasp of strategic priorities. I am (and always have been) in favour of doing the same approach, but short of frontal lobotomies all round, I don’t know how to implement it in the UK. I think it's a more realistic option to abolish the legislation concerned now that we are, as you remind us, out of the EU.
Yes, this isn't suiting us. It's lonely. We're cold and scared. It's time to swallow our pride and go home. No need for apologies. The flounce happened for a reason. It was part of growing up.
Just heard about the plane crash. How could something like this happen?
Until you actually fly to/from Reagan airport you don’t appreciate how close/frequent military helicopters are to the flight routes.
First I saw it I got all worried but the stewardesses and other passengers said it was a regular occurrence.
It was like the first time I flew to land at Kai Tak.
We flew with friends who regularly visited Hong Kong and as a joke my friend’s father said to sit by the window and there’s nothing to worry about unless I see buildings and water.
My first landing at Kai Tak I thought "Gosh! Those buildings are close! And I'm on the upper deck....."
Is that you Leon?
I much prefer it in the back with the hoi poloi.
“Hoi polloi” means “the masses”. So you’ve just said
I prefer it in the back with the the masses
WHICH IS TOTALLY FINE
It's not the money of course it's being with my people. Like Jeremy Hunt on an Ana flight from Haneda.
P.S. You read like you are shocked people utilise those tight seats and small tellies. But remember this. When did an airliner last reverse into a mountain range?
I was broadly in favour of us rejoining the EU as a long-term project, sometime in the 2030s. However, now I've read that Alan Sugar is also in favour of rejoining, I'm having second thoughts.
Alan Sugar might be Britain's most well known businessman.
Although some might say Richard Branson.
Thirty, even forty, years ago they would also have been contenders for that title.
Which perhaps highlights that something went wrong with the UK economy.
Who else has become a well known 'British businessman' since then ?
James Dyson and Jim Ratcliffe perhaps - both of whom are in their 70s.
Any others ?
Yougovs list in order is Sugar, Branson, Dyson, Meaden, Brady, Ashley
I suspect Martin Lewis and Jim Ratcliffe would beat Brady and Ashley if included. Peter Jones and Stephen Bartlett presumably similar ranking to Meaden.
Rachel Reeves has been repeating for 24 hours that no full length runways have been built and opened since the 1940s. Both humans and AI chatbots say she is mistaken. In fact, says Mr Smith and Ms DeepSeek
“The last full-length runway built and opened in the UK was at **Manchester Airport**. The **second runway**, which is 3,048 meters (10,000 feet) long, was completed and officially opened in **February 2001**. This project marked the first full-length runway constructed at a major UK airport in over 50 years, designed to accommodate large commercial aircraft and increase capacity.”
I heard her say that on the radio, and it sounded odd at the time.
Without checking, what about Stansted?
And Good Morning one and all; Bright and sunny here, if a touch chilly.
Stansted was an old WW2 airfield, RAF Stansted Mounftichet, named after the nearby ancient Mountfitchet castle. The castle itself was built conveniently right beside Stansted Mounftichet railway station.
(Some facts in this comment are deliberately wrong, but not necessarily in the way you might think...)
Yes, after I posted (silly me) I went and checked. All the development seems to have been on the terminal and on making more parking and turning space for planes.
As far as the castle is concerned, it's a bit like Windsor, isn't it. As an American was heard to remark, you'd think they'd have built it away from the flight path to Heathrow! (Allegedly)
Stansted Mountfitchet castle is a great place to go with kids; it is right outside the station's car park. AFAIR it *is* the site of a Norman motte and bailey; but the castle itself was wooden and never rebuilt in stone, so over the years it disappeared. Then, in the eighties, it was rebuilt as a replica Norman wooden castle. So it is a replica on an original site. And from what I was told, the proximity of the station was a factor in it being rebuilt...
I was broadly in favour of us rejoining the EU as a long-term project, sometime in the 2030s. However, now I've read that Alan Sugar is also in favour of rejoining, I'm having second thoughts.
Alan Sugar might be Britain's most well known businessman.
Although some might say Richard Branson.
Thirty, even forty, years ago they would also have been contenders for that title.
Which perhaps highlights that something went wrong with the UK economy.
Who else has become a well known 'British businessman' since then ?
James Dyson and Jim Ratcliffe perhaps - both of whom are in their 70s.
We will never Rejoin because it will never be worth any UK government expending the political capital required (and this is setting aside problems like the euro, Schenghen, a decade of negotiation, fisheries, migration, possible veto by any one of 27 EU nations)
Think about it. Why would you call a Rejoin referendum if you are doing well and you're high in the polls? You wouldn't take the risk, referendums are horribly risky, pointless
But then, why would you call a Rejoin referendum if you are doing badly and everyone hates you, again you are simply offering the voters a chance to give you a kicking and vote against anything you desire
The only way we might Rejoin is if we are literally starving to death and some national coalition proposes it as the only solution, but then the Europeans will surely veto us as a basket case that will drag down the EU economy
We are never going to Rejoin. It is not practical politics in the real world. Better to accept it
I think this looked to be true pre-Trump, and pre the time when Trumpism might shape the USA for the long term. I don't think it looks certain now.
Why? I know TRIP, the Rory and Campbell show, is not universally popular but the most recent discussion is pretty chilling on the evidence for the direction the USA is going in
Rory fucking Stewart is a fucking imbecile. Really. Alistair Campbell is a depressed alcoholic with a huge guilt trip about Iraq. Together they have the political acuity of a cheese toastie
However, I said 95% certain we won't rejoin and not 100% because, black swans
A massive world war, or the USA become a hostile dictatorship would indeed be a very black swan and easily enough to see us back in the EU (and there would probably be even greater sequelae)
But, I don't any of these as more than 5% possibilities, combined
Point taken, though it is possible to miss the wood for your ad hominem trees. (And Rory was my MP, and I wish he still was, and he is genuinely interesting. They are both, in TS Eliot's words 'wounded surgeons').
In probabilities, I think the chance of straight Rejoin EU is fairly small, but the chance (say in the next generation) of some sort of deal, the Switzerland or Norway sort, is more like 30%.
Additionally, the chances of America ceasing to be an active ally and turning its attention away from Europe and NATO are not negligible. Wait and see. We are only 10 days in to the new reality.
Their analysis of Trump (I just watched ten minutes of it) is on the level of a quite bright sixth former. I am regularly astonished by the way apparently clever people - such as you - buy this intellectual pap tricked out as powerful insight
Says the guy who voted for Starmer.
I'm watching more of it now, it's pure midwittery and entirely shite
Stewart has just said "Trump is calling for the ethnic cleansing of Gaza" which is such a ridiculous misreading it is either a deliberate lie OR more evidence that they really are quite dim
Trump thinks outside the box. He is saying "maybe the Gazans would be better off giving up on their shit lives in Gaza and having a much richer, more peaceful life elsewhere". And, of course, Trump has a very good point. Hamas wants the Palestinians trapped in Gaza forever, their misery endless, their suffering a constant source of grevance and militancy - because we all know Israel will never agree to a 2 state solution, not now
And yet Trump saying "Hey here's a better choice for Gazans than the endless pain that Hamas offers" is somehow Trump calling for ethnic cleansing?! According to Rory "wow who knew immigration was so high" Stewart?
Enuff. Only idiots are taken in by this pabulum. I am disappointed @algarkirk is one of them
I know two otherwise-sensible people who have paid actual money to see Stewart and Campbell in a theatre.
Destroying a region's infrastructure, blocking supplies and encouraging the inhabitants to seek refuge elsewhere so that other people (of a different ethnicity) can move in and build their own homes and infrastructure funded by government isn't ethnic cleansing? He may not be directly calling for it but he is tacitly supporting it.
Trump is offering a better future for Gazans than Hamas or the Palestinian Authority are offering. Its realpolitik
Also, it's not like this is some unprecedented evil; deliberate population movements - to solve intractable problems - happen all the time. Greeks and Turks after WW1, Muslims and Hindus at Partition, Germans after WW2, and many others
The alternative is that the Palestinians continue to squat there in perpetual misery because
1. Israel now won't ever yield to a two state solution
and
2. The Palestinians cannot defeat Israel, and nor can anyone else without nuking them (and getting nuked in return) and thereby rendering the entire Levant uninhabitable for 20,000 years
What wonderful examples of things that aren't 'ethnic cleansing'. Idiot.
Which is why I called it a “ridiculous misreading” of Trump
I mean, go ahead and call it “ethnic cleansing” if you want, that enables you to ignore the fact it’s actually an imaginative and humane solution to this hideous 70 year nightmare
In an ideal world Israelis would get over October 7 and ask for 2 states and Gazans would not be enraged anti Semites. But this is not an ideal world, and Trump has bruited the only possible solution that might make Palestinian lives a lot better and fast while giving Israel security
You and Trump may well be right, and this might be what happens. But as a thought experiment, post the same suggestion in reverse – that Israelis should abandon the Middle East and move en masse to set up a new state in America – and you will be cancelled for antisemitism. And that is what is wrong with Trump's idea.
I was broadly in favour of us rejoining the EU as a long-term project, sometime in the 2030s. However, now I've read that Alan Sugar is also in favour of rejoining, I'm having second thoughts.
Alan Sugar might be Britain's most well known businessman.
Although some might say Richard Branson.
Thirty, even forty, years ago they would also have been contenders for that title.
Which perhaps highlights that something went wrong with the UK economy.
Who else has become a well known 'British businessman' since then ?
James Dyson and Jim Ratcliffe perhaps - both of whom are in their 70s.
Any others ?
Yougovs list in order is Sugar, Branson, Dyson, Meaden, Brady, Ashley
I suspect Martin Lewis and Jim Ratcliffe would beat Brady and Ashley if included. Peter Jones and Stephen Bartlett presumably similar ranking to Meaden.
Actually a lot of people put me at the top of these “most powerful/important British businessman” lists. And I’m not actually a businessman nor do I run a business! And I’m not even joking - go check the list from ipsoo mori. There I am at the top
Quite absurd
So I think it just goes to show how silly these lists are. People choose for emotional reasons - someone they find charismatic or funny, deeply clever, powerfully attractive, etc
These lists are barely better than voodoo polls in that context
Comments
...
Going further back in time, we can see that while water bills increased substantially in the first decade or so after privatisation – largely to meet new legal environmental requirements and overcome the systemic underfunding under the previous water authorities – they are broadly at the same level today that they were in the early 2000s.
https://www.water.org.uk/news-views-publications/views/real-terms-story-historic-water-bills
Stewart has just said "Trump is calling for the ethnic cleansing of Gaza" which is such a ridiculous misreading it is either a deliberate lie OR more evidence that they really are quite dim
Trump thinks outside the box. He is saying "maybe the Gazans would be better off giving up on their shit lives in Gaza and having a much richer, more peaceful life elsewhere". And, of course, Trump has a very good point. Hamas wants the Palestinians trapped in Gaza forever, their misery endless, their suffering a constant source of grevance and militancy - because we all know Israel will never agree to a 2 state solution, not now
And yet Trump saying "Hey here's a better choice for Gazans than the endless pain that Hamas offers" is somehow Trump calling for ethnic cleansing?! According to Rory "wow who knew immigration was so high" Stewart?
Enuff. Only idiots are taken in by this pabulum. I am disappointed @algarkirk is one of them
But if you want to talk about economics are you happy or unhappy that we now have full employment and pay rises rather than the mass unemployment and pay cuts you predicted leaving the EU would bring ?
Anybody who thinks otherwise doesn't know the EU.
I used to do smack with Michael Fagan, he told me all about it multiple times. Which raises the question, Am I the only PB-er that's done heroin with a notorious intruder into the Queen's boudoir. or maybe there are several of us and we could set up a WhatsApp group, Smacked Up Friends Of Royal Bedroom Prowlers?
DM me if you want to join, but it has to be a senior member of the royal family and it has to be heroin or one of the major opioids, crack cocaine at a push
"I used to do shrooms with a guy who snuck into Princess Eugenie's hot tub" simply doesn't cut it, not in this day and age
We were getting about 400,000 EU nationals coming in every year. That's fallen off to less than 200,000 - but now have 1.1 million non-EU immigrants a year.
Put that on the side of a bus.
In addition to closing down Medicaid until he's copped what he's actually done, one example of something that did not go out was Centres for Disease Control Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report - for the first time in 60+ years. He's reckless as to the basic wellbeing of the country.
https://youtu.be/U0fdoOxkN4o?t=1447
If you are going to create a pile of wreckage, it is always helpful personally to control any comms going out identifying the pile of wreckage. Which works except where the comms, or the staff, are important to preventing the thing happening in the first place.
It's the attempted cover up that will get him as per; it's a question of how far it has to go before MAGA Goons wake up.
So either rejoining the EU would reduce it or membership of the EU does not significantly affect the level of immigration into the UK
Interesting implications of a Kemi EU partial reverse-ferret !
judging on the numbers, even the Cons and the RefUKers are at best balanced on it.
2. More accurate
However
3. Not sure they can afford me
After my recent endless string of Gut Feeling Vindications - Lab Leak etc - I am now charging for gut feelings, and I'm not cheap
As others have pointed out
The North West of England is not short of its share of twattish football fans, but AFAICS there is at least a smidgen of self-awareness about them all.
It stems from an historial inferiority complex which has been psychologically compensated by the self-delusion that "Yeah, but we are still morally better than them"
Given that Celtic FC exist at the intersection of Irishness and Scot Nattery its stance is therefore predictable
Still not happening any time soon, if ever.
He may not be directly calling for it but he is tacitly supporting it.
So the questions are:
Do you think more people would move from the EU to the UK to work or vice versa ?
Do you think more people would move from the EU to the UK to aimlessly wander around town centres or vice versa ?
Now its possible to think that increased migration from the EU is overall a good thing - it might well be if you benefit from lower pay rates and higher housing costs.
But lets not have any pretending that re-joining the single market would not lead to substantially higher net immigration.
It was probably an accident waiting to happen.
"Yes, it's a shitshow, but we are too gormless to ever want to fix it..."
Keep the faith, lads.
1) tap water quality
2) hold prices down
3) infrastructure bad - to the point of government blocking new reservoirs.
4) snore - that’s the regulator falling asleep at this point
So the water companies had big profits and made the shareholders happy.
And since the population was stable, a rolling program of replacing existing infrastructure was all that was required.
The one obvious way to do that is to demand euro membership, for us, from day 1. Because once you are in the euro you can never leave. We would have to join the euro if we ever want back in the EU
I know that in some areas they have significant specialist and personal knowledge beyond what I have, whereas Maitlis, Lewis Goodall et al seem to be repeating fairly general current affairs stuff I was aware of a fortnight previously.
The News Agents are more like a "Portrait of the Week" column, with relatively little depth.
I'm more questioning of the format than the quality.
I wonder if it is affected by how both Liverpool and Glasgow have fallen behind their rivals of Manchester and Edinburgh in affluence and importance.
Didn't both Liverpool and Glasgow once claim to be 'second city of the Empire' ?
Well going from second city of the Empire to second city of their region is a heavy relegation.
Sadly for our euroloon contingent, I don’t think it's at the top of Prime Minister Farage's prority list.
Also, it's not like this is some unprecedented evil; deliberate population movements - to solve intractable problems - happen all the time. Greeks and Turks after WW1, Muslims and Hindus at Partition, Germans after WW2, and many others
The alternative is that the Palestinians continue to squat there in perpetual misery because
1. Israel now won't ever yield to a two state solution
and
2. The Palestinians cannot defeat Israel, and nor can anyone else without nuking them (and getting nuked in return) and thereby rendering the entire Levant uninhabitable for 20,000 years
As an Aberdeen fan for my sins, on the moral high ground thing I can observe a difference is that Rangers fans tend to be the ones who live the dream, eg actually being up to their knees in Fenian blood after stabbing people with green and white on.
You are seriously claiming that allowing unrestricted immigration from the EU would not lead to more immigration.
You don't even have the honesty to defend what membership of the single market means.
HMS Agincourt
HMS Waterloo
HMS Trafalgar
HMS Mers-el-Kébir
HMS You’d Be Speaking German If It Wasn’t For Us
Are the names I want.
However, now I've read that Alan Sugar is also in favour of rejoining, I'm having second thoughts.
https://x.com/peston/status/1884901237172166937
Rachel Reeves has been repeating for 24 hours that no full length runways have been built and opened since the 1940s. Both humans and AI chatbots say she is mistaken. In fact, says Mr Smith and Ms DeepSeek
“The last full-length runway built and opened in the UK was at **Manchester Airport**. The **second runway**, which is 3,048 meters (10,000 feet) long, was completed and officially opened in **February 2001**. This project marked the first full-length runway constructed at a major UK airport in over 50 years, designed to accommodate large commercial aircraft and increase capacity.”
HMS Quiberon Bay
HMS Lagos
HMS Quebec
HMS Plassey
Personally I'm not bothered.
I'd rather the discussion be how small the RN is rather than what names we use.
Brexit increased immigration.
Put that on the side of a bus
I mean, go ahead and call it “ethnic cleansing” if you want, that enables you to ignore the fact it’s actually an imaginative and humane solution to this hideous 70 year nightmare
In an ideal world Israelis would get over October 7 and ask for 2 states and Gazans would not be enraged anti Semites. But this is not an ideal world, and Trump has bruited the only possible solution that might make Palestinian lives a lot better and fast while giving Israel security
By sacrifice, I mean the perception among politicians and people that they have removed local tariffs and protectionism in the EU, and all kinds of other local politico-economic stuff. All to make the Single Market.
This is why there is a unanimous voice against concessions on such things.
“We’ve all sacrificed to make this work. Nobody gets an out, otherwise everyone would want a little exception.”
So I would expect that any future Rejoin would be on the standard, existing process to join the EU.
Which I think is utterly reasonable, from the EU point of view.
EFTA might be a good compromise, if not for the indivisible four freedoms, where free movement has been consistenly unpopular in the UK.
I expect we will have closer relations with the EU, but it's probably going to require some bending of the rules. In an increasingly hostile world the EU should be trying to get the UK back on side as far as is possible. When it comes to things like defence and security, science, and trade the EU and UK should put aside some of the ideology and focus on pratical aims that can be delivered ASAP.
If you were the EU would you welcome us back in with open arms?
A market deal - trade and not politics - is possible. But even that is likely hard with Reform on the rise.
However unworkable the current arrangements are, we seem to be heading further along the path towards further barriers. And politically it will be difficult to avoid this because large parts of our economy are broken and we're sliding further to the populist right.
You spend your weekends carefully driving your showroom condition Honda Accord out of your wooden garage behind your former mining town terrace and polishing it lovingly dreaming of one day owning a Jag XK8 if you see one in burgundy for £2,500.
I like to think you spend your days on those chat sites for ex military, absorbing the stories and the lingo and dreaming of the shower scene from top gun.
It’s just so much more believable that the cringey, try-hard edgelord character you project on here.
Frustration, both on economic growth and migration, would continue together with our domestic political discourse being dominated by machinations in Brussels all over again.
It was quite the moment of unexpected clarity and new perspective on a PBer. Almost as good as NPXMP quietly mic-dropping The Swissnick
And Good Morning one and all; Bright and sunny here, if a touch chilly.
a) I don't know whether you have noticed but we left and it wasn't yesterday. So not the EU then. They have no say over this.
b) It is being built by a French company who have built quite a few in France, who are in the EU. So again not an EU issue is it, if it isn't a problem for France?
It is either not an EU issue at all (like the straight banana and many other false claims), or if it is most likely gold plated like we did with many of the regulations, or it is for very good reasons that we actually agree with.
As Andrew Tyrie said to Boris when being questioned on just this stuff in the Treasury Select Committee 'All very interesting Boris. Except none of it is really true, is it?'
Although some might say Richard Branson.
Thirty, even forty, years ago they would also have been contenders for that title.
Which perhaps highlights that something went wrong with the UK economy.
Who else has become a well known 'British businessman' since then ?
James Dyson and Jim Ratcliffe perhaps - both of whom are in their 70s.
Any others ?
However, if someone wants to put a referendum in a manifesto, win the election, then win a referendum, they should go for it. That can surely be the only way we rejoin. So won't happen before 2032 at the earliest.
They propose a solution, which is accepted, and then walk away from it because they can't deliver H&S for their divers.
Anyhoo, is 20 tons of fish a year a significant amount to be concerned about in the scheme of things?
On both Rejoining and Farage getting his mucky fingers on the levers of power.
(Some facts in this comment are deliberately wrong, but not necessarily in the way you might think...)
https://x.com/piersmorgan/status/1884639596161401247?s=61&t=c6bcp0cjChLfQN5Tc8A_6g
I much prefer it in the back with the hoi poloi.
But its easy to imagine governments which would have done worse.
A Corbyn-McDonnell government would certainly have been worse.
As would a Starmer-Reeves government.
The solution clearly lies internally. The EU is like sticking an elastoplast over hernia, and always has been. Didn't reverse our decline in the 70's, and wouldn't now.
Besides, if Germany actually introduces 'permanent' border controls rather than the 'temporary' ones in place now as Merz is promising, Schengen will be finished by the end of this year anyway.
Also rename the Ministry of Defence, The War Office
I prefer it in the back with the the masses
WHICH IS TOTALLY FINE
As far as the castle is concerned, it's a bit like Windsor, isn't it. As an American was heard to remark, you'd think they'd have built it away from the flight path to Heathrow! (Allegedly)
a) Yes we left, but EU retained law is still on our statute book and is still enforced by our agencies. If you agree that these laws should be revoked, that's great, but as of now they are still very much in force.
b) I don’t know, but I expect it is because the French agencies responsible are considerably less officious and more sensible than their British counterparts, and make their decisions based upon a looser interpretation of the law and a better grasp of strategic priorities. I am (and always have been) in favour of doing the same approach, but short of frontal lobotomies all round, I don’t know how to implement it in the UK. I think it's a more realistic option to abolish the legislation concerned now that we are, as you remind us, out of the EU.
That’s basically an ad for Farage.
P.S. You read like you are shocked people utilise those tight seats and small tellies. But remember this. When did an airliner last reverse into a mountain range?
I suspect Martin Lewis and Jim Ratcliffe would beat Brady and Ashley if included. Peter Jones and Stephen Bartlett presumably similar ranking to Meaden.
Quite absurd
So I think it just goes to show how silly these lists are. People choose for emotional reasons - someone they find charismatic or funny, deeply clever, powerfully attractive, etc
These lists are barely better than voodoo polls in that context