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The Trump dynasty – politicalbetting.com

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  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,629
    Leon said:

    For bluesky to truly succeed it desperately needs a lot of centrist and, especially, right wing accounts to move

    I see no sign of that. Bluesky is actively hostile to these people

    So we will end up with two different but similar Twitter-like places and even less interaction between left and right. Not good
    All I can say is ... we'll see.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,688
    Sandpit said:

    I know that to many he can do nothing right, but Trump asking his assistant to give the pen with which he signed the order to release the documents related to the deaths of his father and his uncle, to RFK Jr, was a class move.

    https://x.com/robbystarbuck/status/1882529493652484309

    He pardoned large numbers of Jan 6 rioters who had violently assaulted police officers (having said he wouldn't). Giving a pen to his political ally doesn't re-balance the scales all that much.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,735
    Leon said:

    Indeed so. That’s my experience. Which is why I don’t think it will make the leap from sizeable niche to global public square

    It is also incredibly hostile to certain *subjects*
    I wouldn’t say hostile, it’s just that Bluesky has an easy to use block / nuke button an people use it to block people who they see as arsey
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    edited January 24
    Eabhal said:

    Laura Loomer has also been banned by:

    CPAC
    Paypal
    Uber
    Lyft
    GoFundMe
    Venmo
    Instagram
    Facebook
    A court (evicted by US Marshal Service)
    Pretty much a perfect example of how someone can be removed from society for their opinions.

    Which isn’t a good thing.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,560
    F1: I hope the drivers go full Marshawn Lynch.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,180


    Raylan Givens : You run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. You run into assholes all day, you're the asshole.
    I thought that was a superb series.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,011
    edited January 24
    If Trump dies or is assassinated the VP might have something to say about it...
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,154
    Leon said:

    Myanmar is one of those countries where they’d almost certainly be better off if the British had stayed - and some people will say it (it’s a popular sentiment amongst the minority peoples in Myanmar)

    Sri Lanka is another candidate

    That said, the idea might be less appealing now it means being ultimately governed by Keir Starmer. As he’d probably try and give them - plus a free pot noodle - to Pyongyang
    I was wondering, whilst extremely bored admittedly, if you could show those in power in the US in the 1940s the world now without the British Empire (and the French I grudgingly suppose) whether their determined hatred of European Empires might suddenly seem like a bad idea.

    If the US today had an ally with a huge empire to counterweight China and Russia as well as a temperamental French ally it would possibly make their lives easier.

    Perhaps the Middle East wouldn’t be a huge problem for them if still under mandate or empire.

    But at least they got to smack our imperialist bottoms over Suez.

    (And yes I get that those countries in the Empires might have broken free anyway but was just some lazy bored thinking.)
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 24,287

    3 of the 12 tube lines were named after just one family.....
    Ah yes, the triplets Victoria, Elizabeth and the wacky "Picca" Dilly. Not forgetting their wayward cousin Jubilee.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,198
    DavidL said:

    I thought that was a superb series.
    "Wonderful things can happen when you sow seeds of distrust in a garden of assholes”
  • glwglw Posts: 10,366
    Sandpit said:

    She’s a high-profile Trump supporter. Banning her for who she is, rather than anything she actually said on the platform, is indicative of how the platform wants to run themselves, much like old Twitter.
    It's not being a Trump supporter that is the issue, it's the endless stream of crackpot opinions that have caused her trouble. She has been banned from lots of other services before due to the things she has said and done.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,502
    glw said:

    That's the end of the American era, which frankly appears to be on the cards right now anyway.
    I don’t see the US era ending any time soon.

    But, it would be the end of the US Republic, and the beginning of a much more overt US Empire.
  • glwglw Posts: 10,366
    Eabhal said:

    Laura Loomer has also been banned by:

    CPAC
    Paypal
    Uber
    Lyft
    GoFundMe
    Venmo
    Instagram
    Facebook
    A court (evicted by US Marshal Service)

    You start to wonder if it's a Laura Loomer problem rather than a Bluesky one.

    Yeah those radical leftists at CPAC banned her.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,688

    The Left need a reality check. If you want a world-class NHS, you need rich people to pay for it (even if they don't use it).

    Chasing the rich away may give warm fuzzy feelings to the Left. Until they have to start explaining the closure of hospital wards. Utter pillocks.
    It's not true that the rich pay for the NHS. The rich pay a significant proportion of income tax, but income tax is not the only tax. See https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-8513/ "The 10% of income taxpayers with the largest incomes contribute over 60% of income tax receipts." But, "The Institute for Fiscal Studies (IFS) – an economic think tank – has analysed how much households pay in tax. Their analysis – which covers around three quarters of tax revenues (including income tax, NICs, VAT, excise duties and council tax) – found that, in 2017/18, the 50% of households with the largest incomes contributed around 78% of taxes." And then, of course, there is also corporation tax and business rates, which raise about half as much as income tax.

    What we need is a broad tax base and greater economic equality, not failed trickle down economics.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,560
    edited January 24
    Taz said:

    Much much worse and consumer confidence has tumbled too.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/other/steep-drop-in-consumer-confidence-amid-concerns-of-dark-days-ahead/ar-AA1xKINy?ocid=BingNewsSerp

    I am leaving end of next month where I work, Yesterday due to fallin order book and no real sign of an uptick they announced compulsory redundancies. I have been there over a decade and this has never happened before. The assumption is orders will pick up but this has been said for 12 months and it just does not happen and no sign of it happening.

    We sell consumables and equipment. We have not had an order for a piece of equipment for over 12 months now. Our customers have simply got no capex expenditure at the moment. We have only had a few enquiries too.

    The equipment we sell is the route to market for alot of our consumables. The razor and the razorblades analogy and it is just not happening.

    Reeves is definitely now making the right noises about growth and seems to be pivoting into the right approach however the damage has been done in the past 6 months.
    Really sorry to hear that, I feel for you. Hopefully you can pick up something pretty soon.

    We've been forced to replace one of our main production machines because the old one is EOL and the engineer visits have just become too frequent, but it's absolutely a gamble based on the work coming in. Thankfully I've been working on a Plan B for the last 18 months that will hopefully come to fruition in the summer.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,214

    The Left need a reality check. If you want a world-class NHS, you need rich people to pay for it (even if they don't use it).

    Chasing the rich away may give warm fuzzy feelings to the Left. Until they have to start explaining the closure of hospital wards. Utter pillocks.
    Isn't the point that rich (foreign) people weren't paying?

    Yes, they spend money here which does boost the economy, and there'll be some tax take on that too. However, depending on wealthy individuals who make money elsewhere (or indeed even wealthy individuals here) is not a very sustainable tax base. It would be much better to create a faster-growing economy that spreads its growth more evenly - which is also good politics as excessive inequality is a recipe for resentment, division and radicalism, not to mention slower growth anyway as people don't feel a stake in what they're doing.

    So far, Labour has given distinctly mixed messages on improving growth and its actions are having a lot more effect than its words.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    Ryazan power station, somewhat East of Moscow, properly on fire.

    https://x.com/igorsushko/status/1882558154384584904
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,688
    Taz said:

    Their solution will be "wealth tax now" and demand the rich pay their "fair share"

    TUSC on Twitter was one of the strongest critics. We need a new party of the left apparently, as Reeves is a Tory.

    There is a view on the left, or a part of it, that the wealthy pay no tax at all.

    Some rich people pay a lot of tax... and some don't. https://www.lse.ac.uk/research/research-for-the-world/economics/how-much-tax-do-the-rich-really-pay has a nice analysis. High-earning employees tend to be paying lots of tax, but those making money from investments and capital gains are paying a lot less.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,330
    Leon said:

    Indeed so. That’s my experience. Which is why I don’t think it will make the leap from sizeable niche to global public square

    It is also incredibly hostile to certain *subjects*
    *Subjects* like Haitians eating pets and brown people smelling of curry? What will we do without such Socratic debate?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,629
    MattW said:

    All I can say is ... we'll see.
    Your view is similar to Rory Stewart - he is currently sticking it out for the same reasons, whilst his podcast other half Bad Al has moved.

    As someone basically from the centre-right, I was quite happy on Twitter for 15 years, but I feel the proprietor wants a megaphone not a debating community - and has taken it out of the civil space. I've always put a very strong emphasis on encouraging cross-partisan debate, and I don't think that is possible on Twitter any more.

    So I'm doing my bit to build something I hope will be better.

    But now I'm also after more of an activist platform than previously.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,688
    Sandpit said:

    Jeez, why do you make things personal again?

    If someone close to me was running for office and made a specific pledge to me about something to do with my family, being presented with the pen used to sign the order would be a massive privilege.

    RFK Jr saw both his father and his uncle assassinated.
    And Trump pardons political violence. If my relatives had been assassinated, I'd be more worried about that.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 6,322
    a
    Sandpit said:

    She’s a high-profile Trump supporter. Banning her for who she is, rather than anything she actually said on the platform, is indicative of how the platform wants to run themselves, much like old Twitter.
    Laura Loomer has accused Musk and X of censorship

    “It’s greedy and it’s morally wrong, and it’s downright UNETHICAL AND UNAMERICAN,” Loomer wrote.

    She said it was “outrageous and un-American” that someone as close to Trump as Musk is engaging in “this egregious retaliatory censorship” and “trying to harm my livelihood by cutting off my subscriptions and shadow banning my account.”

    “The fact that this has gone on for a MONTH now with no recourse is a slap in my face after everything I have done to help President Trump @JDVance and all of their staff,” Loomer wrote.

    “It’s already recognized in our country that MONEY IS SPEECH. Thus, the demonetization of my account is truly an abomination, and we clearly do not have free speech in our country when a WHITE HOUSE OFFICIAL can get away with attacking and silencing one of President Trump’s biggest Allies,” she continued.

    “If they can do it to me after how hard I worked and how loyal I was to President @realDonaldTrump, they will do it to all of you as well,” she added.


    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/5101369-laura-loomer-elon-musk-x-donald-trump/
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,560
    Sandpit said:

    I know that to many he can do nothing right, but Trump asking his assistant to give the pen with which he signed the order to release the documents related to the deaths of his father and his uncle, to RFK Jr, was a class move.

    https://x.com/robbystarbuck/status/1882529493652484309

    It looked completely off the cuff too, as he put the pen down first.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022

    Isn't the point that rich (foreign) people weren't paying?

    Yes, they spend money here which does boost the economy, and there'll be some tax take on that too. However, depending on wealthy individuals who make money elsewhere (or indeed even wealthy individuals here) is not a very sustainable tax base. It would be much better to create a faster-growing economy that spreads its growth more evenly - which is also good politics as excessive inequality is a recipe for resentment, division and radicalism, not to mention slower growth anyway as people don't feel a stake in what they're doing.

    So far, Labour has given distinctly mixed messages on improving growth and its actions are having a lot more effect than its words.
    The current government has been telling those rich foreign people to f**k off, and then f**k off some more, so they’re no longer spending any money in London, preferring to enjoy their wealth in Dubai and Singapore.

    Meanwhile UK payroll taxes are going up, so those wanting to invest are looking elsewhere.

    The only positive is that the EU is doing even better at killing investment, so the UK might become the least-worst destination in the region.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,782

    *Subjects* like Haitians eating pets and brown people smelling of curry? What will we do without such Socratic debate?
    No. Other things
  • Leon said:

    And yet Myanmar is poorer or much poorer than all of its neighbours, despite being overly blessed with resources
    Yet Singapore has few resources, apart from a deep water harbour, and is rich.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,560
    Taz said:

    I am quite happy with twitter. I think there is much ramping of bluesky going on but twitter has first mover advantage.

    We will see but I think it is a lot of hoping from Bluesky fans and Bluesky does not seem especially welcoming of diverse views.
    Twitter is definitely getting harder to use. Maybe it's more obvious to me as I'm not on there every day, but following conversations of replies seems much more difficult than it used to be.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,171

    3 of the 12 tube lines were named after just one family.....
    Named after women. Go woke, go broke underground.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,296
    Dura_Ace said:

    Dunno if DJTJ, who is basically Hunter Biden not on crack, has the sort of energy and work ethic required for a presidential campaign. If he's going to do it, then he should have a PAC set up now and be raising money, schmoozing donors, etc. He conspicuously isn't. The other road block is the guylinered psycho JDV who will, without doubt, run against DJTJ if there is an open primary.

    Ivanka is more likely, as DJT at least seems to like her.

    Guyliner will be persona non grata by 2028, shirley?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,688
    Sandpit said:

    Except that Blusky has no intention of hosting a debate.

    One of Trump’s supporters had her account blocked within minutes of her creating it, having posted precisely nothing.

    https://x.com/lauraloomer/status/1873538332308992320
    Well, that's because of all the far right content and conspiracies theory she has vomited over other social media. Seems entirely sensible to me!

    Loomer claimed that a winter storm that disrupted the 2024 Iowa Republican presidential caucuses was weather manipulation to support Nikki Haley's campaign. She made false claims about family members of Arthur Engoron and of Juan Merchan, judges overseeing Trump cases. Etc.

    She has claimed that the Parkland and Santa Fe school shootings were staged, by crisis actors. I think it's acceptable for a social media campaign to block that such horrendous comments. Do you?
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,319
    We should definitely be banning Twitter links on here. #noplatform
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,560

    3 of the 12 tube lines were named after just one family.....
    Victoria, I assume you're counting Jubilee... what's the other one? Am I being dense this morning?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,838

    And Trump pardons political violence. If my relatives had been assassinated, I'd be more worried about that.
    Carter, Clinton and Obama all freed people for acts of political violence and terrorism.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,629
    Interesting Focusalike newspaper from the Ashfield Indies this morning.

    It sounds like they have an idea to team up with other Independents to try and take control of Notts CC.

    Their first promise is to abandon a section of the strategic mobility track between Kirkby-in-Ashfield and Mansfield / District Hospital / University Campus / Shopping / Employment / Leisure areas.

    Current numbers are :

    Lab 14, Tory 31, Ash Ind 10, other Ind 6, Reform 1.

    It's an interesting idea, but I don't see it surviving if Zadrozny their leader is found guilty in March of his various charges,
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022

    He pardoned large numbers of Jan 6 rioters who had violently assaulted police officers (having said he wouldn't). Giving a pen to his political ally doesn't re-balance the scales all that much.
    The vast majority of those pardoned were not violent, and those who were violent and arrested on the day had already spent four years incarcerated.

    Many others were guilty of nothing except possibly a misdemeanour trespassing, but have been held in custody without trial for years,

    One investigator picked what she says was a case at random, and went into the details.
    https://x.com/defiyantlyfree/status/1882268997606945260
  • kamski said:

    a

    Laura Loomer has accused Musk and X of censorship

    “It’s greedy and it’s morally wrong, and it’s downright UNETHICAL AND UNAMERICAN,” Loomer wrote.

    She said it was “outrageous and un-American” that someone as close to Trump as Musk is engaging in “this egregious retaliatory censorship” and “trying to harm my livelihood by cutting off my subscriptions and shadow banning my account.”

    “The fact that this has gone on for a MONTH now with no recourse is a slap in my face after everything I have done to help President Trump @JDVance and all of their staff,” Loomer wrote.

    “It’s already recognized in our country that MONEY IS SPEECH. Thus, the demonetization of my account is truly an abomination, and we clearly do not have free speech in our country when a WHITE HOUSE OFFICIAL can get away with attacking and silencing one of President Trump’s biggest Allies,” she continued.

    “If they can do it to me after how hard I worked and how loyal I was to President @realDonaldTrump, they will do it to all of you as well,” she added.


    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/5101369-laura-loomer-elon-musk-x-donald-trump/
    Morning all in PB.

    This is a wonderful encapsulation of Varoufakis's thesis of Big Tech as feudal gatekeepers, rather than tycoons.

    And with the added delicious irony of l the MAGA base here being the one that's targeted.

    Annoy the laird, because he's trying to to pass different immigration legislation at court to you ? No income for you, as he controls the digital land.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,629

    Well, that's because of all the far right content and conspiracies theory she has vomited over other social media. Seems entirely sensible to me!

    Loomer claimed that a winter storm that disrupted the 2024 Iowa Republican presidential caucuses was weather manipulation to support Nikki Haley's campaign. She made false claims about family members of Arthur Engoron and of Juan Merchan, judges overseeing Trump cases. Etc.

    She has claimed that the Parkland and Santa Fe school shootings were staged, by crisis actors. I think it's acceptable for a social media campaign to block that such horrendous comments. Do you?
    Blocking Laura Loomer is in the same neighbourhood as blocking Tommy Robinson or Andrew Tate imo.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,144
    edited January 24
    Driver said:

    It looked completely off the cuff too, as he put the pen down first.
    Hitler was charming and generous to his friends. Full Godwin but you guys are getting ridiculous.

    Edit: Just seen Sandpit's post on the Jan 6th rioters. This almost exactly how my brilliant Higher History teacher described the onset of fascism - the normalisation of violent seditious behaviour.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,038
    edited January 24

    If Trump dies or is assassinated the VP might have something to say about it...

    Vance is more intelligent than the Trumps but he has less charisma, as indeed do most of the top tier GOP.

    The problem the GOP will have is like the Tories had post Boris, Boris and Trump had charisma and real appeal to white working class ex Labour and ex Democrat voters others in their party don't match to the same extent.

    Indeed, if Vance won the GOP nomination ie the GOP Rishi, I would not put it past Trump Jr to try and form his own Reform like party with Daddy's backing, even if Don Jr and Vance are close now so were Boris and Rishi once
  • Driver said:

    Victoria, I assume you're counting Jubilee... what's the other one? Am I being dense this morning?
    The Liz Line?
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,214
    Sandpit said:

    The current government has been telling those rich foreign people to f**k off, and then f**k off some more, so they’re no longer spending any money in London, preferring to enjoy their wealth in Dubai and Singapore.

    Meanwhile UK payroll taxes are going up, so those wanting to invest are looking elsewhere.

    The only positive is that the EU is doing even better at killing investment, so the UK might become the least-worst destination in the region.
    That's not a positive. Britain needs a stable and growing EU, both to trade with and because political disruptions there affect here.

    The ultra-rich f'ing off to Dubai is a feature not a bug. Personally, I don't have a problem with pandering to them with special favours. Deflating the London property bubble would be no bad thing either.

    But there will be some initial tax loss, so that makes it all the more important that you get the rest of the economy producing.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    MattW said:

    Blocking Laura Loomer is in the same neighbourhood as blocking Tommy Robinson or Andrew Tate imo.
    The difference being that Laura actually has the ear of the president.

    If you disagree with her, then let her metaphorically hang herself in public.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,560

    The Liz Line?
    Not a tube line.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,729

    Carter, Clinton and Obama all freed people for acts of political violence and terrorism.
    Lone wolves, or attempts to overturn federal democratic institutions. Your man supported the latter.
  • Sandpit said:

    The difference being that Laura actually has the ear of the president.

    If you disagree with her, then let her metaphorically hang herself in public.
    She's also only being banned because Elon Musk wants Indian immigrants for his workforce, which she opposes.

    Otherwise, he loves Tommy.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,688

    Carter, Clinton and Obama all freed people for acts of political violence and terrorism.
    The number of people freed by Carter, Clinton and Obama for acts of political violence put together is considerably smaller than Trump has pardoned. Another key difference is that Trump pardoned those who committed political violence recently in support of his attempt to overthrow democracy. Carter, Clinton and Obama pardoned historical cases.
  • ManOfGwentManOfGwent Posts: 150
    Driver said:

    Not a tube line.
    And the Victoria line is named for Victoria train station and not Queen Victoria.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,038
    Sandpit said:

    The current government has been telling those rich foreign people to f**k off, and then f**k off some more, so they’re no longer spending any money in London, preferring to enjoy their wealth in Dubai and Singapore.

    Meanwhile UK payroll taxes are going up, so those wanting to invest are looking elsewhere.

    The only positive is that the EU is doing even better at killing investment, so the UK might become the least-worst destination in the region.
    The EU maybe but Switzerland isn't and even the EU has Meloni's government cutting taxes in Italy unlike Starmer's tax raising government here. Even Macron and Bayrou are more pro business and pro rich than Starmer is and Germany's next Chancellor is a tax and regulation cutting ex corporate lawyer in Merz.

    Indeed, by the end of the year Starmer will likely be the most left of centre leader left in the G7 and of the major nations in Europe only Spain will have a Socialist led government still more anti wealth than we are
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,814

    That's not a positive. Britain needs a stable and growing EU, both to trade with and because political disruptions there affect here.

    The ultra-rich f'ing off to Dubai is a feature not a bug. Personally, I don't have a problem with pandering to them with special favours. Deflating the London property bubble would be no bad thing either.

    But there will be some initial tax loss, so that makes it all the more important that you get the rest of the economy producing.
    No, we need it all. We need millionaires to spend money here and put down roots (or stay here), AND we need to revive the manufacturing economy. And a lot else besides. Getting rid of millionaires is lunacy, and doesn’t help the 'rest of the economy' one iota.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,330

    And the Victoria line is named for Victoria train station and not Queen Victoria.
    And what's the train station named after, sponge cake?
  • kamskikamski Posts: 6,322
    .

    Morning all in PB.

    This is a wonderful encapsulation of Varoufakis's thesis of Big Tech as feudal gatekeepers, rather than tycoons.

    And with the added delicious irony of l the MAGA base here being the one that's targeted.

    Annoy the laird, because he's trying to to pass different immigration legislation at court to you ? No income for you, as he controls the digital land.
    What's also funny is she thinks it's outrageous that a Trump supporter is 'censored' - she seems to think Musk should stick to silencing Trump's opponents. It's the usual definition of 'free speech' for people like her.
  • ManOfGwentManOfGwent Posts: 150

    And what's the train station named after, sponge cake?
    Victoria Street actually....
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,330

    Victoria Street actually....
    And what's Victoria St named after, sponge cake?
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,394
    One day something is going to Twitter but I don't think it's going to be Bluesky. Bluesky's inauguration week core stats - unique daily likers, unique daily posters, total likes, total posts - are about 15% to 20% down on the late November peak. Those numbers don't feel like the numbers of a platform in the mists of going exponential off the back of a wave of outrage.

    People may be creating accounts, but they don't seem to be doing that much with them.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    edited January 24
    Driver said:

    It looked completely off the cuff too, as he put the pen down first.
    Yes, he thought in the moment that RFK Jr might actually want to be gifted the pen.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,838
    EPG said:

    Lone wolves, or attempts to overturn federal democratic institutions. Your man supported the latter.
    Left wing political violence in the US was rather more serious than you imply.

    https://www.fbi.gov/history/famous-cases/weather-underground-bombings
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,688
    Sandpit said:

    The vast majority of those pardoned were not violent, and those who were violent and arrested on the day had already spent four years incarcerated.

    Many others were guilty of nothing except possibly a misdemeanour trespassing, but have been held in custody without trial for years,

    One investigator picked what she says was a case at random, and went into the details.
    https://x.com/defiyantlyfree/status/1882268997606945260
    As I said, he pardoned large numbers of Jan 6 rioters who had violently assaulted police officers. That some Jan 6 rioters had been less violent does not excuse Trump's pardon of those who were.

    defiyantlyfree on Twitter, who you describe as "One investigator", calls herself "Insurrection Barbie". She's a hardcore, hard right, MAGA activist. She's not exactly some independent commentator.
  • ManOfGwentManOfGwent Posts: 150

    And what's Victoria St named after, sponge cake?
    Well you may have got to Queen Victoria there. But 100 years and two steps away from the Tube line.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 939
    Sandpit said:

    The vast majority of those pardoned were not violent, and those who were violent and arrested on the day had already spent four years incarcerated.

    Many others were guilty of nothing except possibly a misdemeanour trespassing, but have been held in custody without trial for years,

    One investigator picked what she says was a case at random, and went into the details.
    https://x.com/defiyantlyfree/status/1882268997606945260
    Under UK law that would be covered by "common purpose", if you've joined a riot then you're rioting.
    Understandable as definitively proving individual actions is difficult.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022

    As I said, he pardoned large numbers of Jan 6 rioters who had violently assaulted police officers. That some Jan 6 rioters had been less violent does not excuse Trump's pardon of those who were.

    defiyantlyfree on Twitter, who you describe as "One investigator", calls herself "Insurrection Barbie". She's a hardcore, hard right, MAGA activist. She's not exactly some independent commentator.
    There were a few dozen rioters, and 1,500 non-violent people who have just received pardons.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,688
    Sandpit said:

    The difference being that Laura actually has the ear of the president.

    If you disagree with her, then let her metaphorically hang herself in public.
    So, your argument is that Laura Loomer has been wrongly censored, but that also she has the "ear of the president". (Somewhat lower down than his ear, the rumours say.) It's hard to see someone with the ear of the president as also having been cruelly cut out from society by censorship. Laura Loomer is not a victim.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,782
    Foss said:

    One day something is going to Twitter but I don't think it's going to be Bluesky. Bluesky's inauguration week core stats - unique daily likers, unique daily posters, total likes, total posts - are about 15% to 20% down on the late November peak. Those numbers don't feel like the numbers of a platform in the mists of going exponential off the back of a wave of outrage.

    People may be creating accounts, but they don't seem to be doing that much with them.

    That sounds about right. I made an account - and even tried to use it for a while - but it is really quite boring if you want debate

    I look at it for 15 mins every few days because some of the people I really liked on Twitter have decamped there, sadly. So I check them out for jokes and memes

    Then I go back to TwiX
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,659
    Everyone in the Red Warning Zone - Stay safe!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,038
    'Donald Trump signed pardons for anti-abortion activists on Thursday, during another round of executive orders from the Oval Office

    The president pardoned 23 people who had been convicted for blocking access to abortion clinics.

    "They should not have been prosecuted. Many of them are elderly people. They should not have been prosecuted," he said. "This is a great honour to sign this. They’ll be very happy."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/ce8y3yk00yjt
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,319



    I'm sorry but it's the same with Ukraine. We are so determined to 'lead' with our contributions to the cause, we will do it until our own army is fighting with pitchforks. There's no concept of the national interest, none.

    You have to remember the context at the start of the SMO. It looked like it was going to be meme laden LOLfest and be over quickly. Boris was swept along with the euphoria of being in a war but without the politically troublesome cavalcade of fleg draped coffins landing at Brize that so marred the end of the Afghan adventure.

    Now it's turned into The Battle of the Heodenings, the UK government (among others) is balls deep in it with no exit strategy so all they can do is keep shoveling the cash and weapons in, to the great detriment of the British armed forces, while hoping for the best.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,838
    The practice of giving friendly names to storms has the serious downside of making it harder to remember when they happened, whereas if you call it 'the great storm of 1987', the clue is in the name.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,330
    edited January 24
    Sandpit said:


    Yes, he thought in the moment that RFK Jr might actually want to be gifted the pen.

    ❤️❤️❤️❤️ Nobel peace prize incoming.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,688
    Sandpit said:

    There were a few dozen rioters, and 1,500 non-violent people who have just received pardons.


    I will use my daily image allowance on this picture showing how non-violent the protestors were. Just people innocently caught up in the moment.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,171
    edited January 24
    Driver said:

    It looked completely off the cuff too, as he put the pen down first.
    Yes, he thought in the moment that RFK Jr might actually want to be gifted the pen.

    Aiui (possibly from pb) Trump used a different pen for each signature, as is usual for presidents, which would then be given to supporters (in this case, via the medium of chucking them into the MAGA crowd). So the question is not, will the pen be given away, but to whom.
  • Sean_F said:

    I don’t see the US era ending any time soon.

    But, it would be the end of the US Republic, and the beginning of a much more overt US Empire.
    Following in the footsteps of the Romans.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,659
    Driver said:

    Not a tube line.
    Deep level tube between Westbourne Park and Stratford/Canary Wharf (and through Woolwich).

    So there!
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,144



    I will use my daily image allowance on this picture showing how non-violent the protestors were. Just people innocently caught up in the moment.
    I still chuckle at RichardT's "found themselves inside the Capitol" line.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,560
    Foss said:

    One day something is going to Twitter but I don't think it's going to be Bluesky. Bluesky's inauguration week core stats - unique daily likers, unique daily posters, total likes, total posts - are about 15% to 20% down on the late November peak. Those numbers don't feel like the numbers of a platform in the mists of going exponential off the back of a wave of outrage.

    People may be creating accounts, but they don't seem to be doing that much with them.

    Bluesky has, whether intentionally or not, positioned itself as the platform for the left. I don't see how it breaks out of that to become actually significant.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    Fallout incoming betweeen Trump, Musk, and Altman.

    https://x.com/marionawfal/status/1882716853379764345
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,154

    Well you may have got to Queen Victoria there. But 100 years and two steps away from the Tube line.
    It’s a bit of a Waterloo Station thing, the station is named after Waterloo Bridge not the Battle so technically the old amusement about Frenchies arriving on Eurostar in those days was misplaced but still amusing really.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,330



    I will use my daily image allowance on this picture showing how non-violent the protestors were. Just people innocently caught up in the moment.
    What's that line that folk of a certain political outlook love?

    'I was present but not involved'
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,170
    Sandpit said:

    Fallout incoming betweeen Trump, Musk, and Altman.

    https://x.com/marionawfal/status/1882716853379764345

    @Big_G_NorthWales was in hard self pleasure mode when this was first announced
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,530
    Natasha Kaneva, head of commodities at JP Morgan, said US output of oil and gas over the next four years will be determined by the price signal and would have been much the same whoever had won the election. “We are agnostic to who sits in the White House,” she said.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/01/24/when-it-comes-to-energy-donald-trump-is-chinas-useful-idiot/
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,038
    Driver said:

    Bluesky has, whether intentionally or not, positioned itself as the platform for the left. I don't see how it breaks out of that to become actually significant.
    Yes you still have Truth Social on the right and Bluesky now on the left, X is still more of both sides than either
  • @Big_G_NorthWales was in hard self pleasure mode when this was first announced
    What a horrible thing to say

    I am in favour of all forms of investment to further growth and prosperity and that is very much needed across the west

    Unfortunately Reeves has driven the wealth creators away
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,688

    What's that line that folk of a certain political outlook love?

    'I was present but not involved'
    Sandpit should watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0OWDMv57cQ

    140 police officers were assaulted, Sandpit. And that's just fine and dandy with you, is it?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,782



    I will use my daily image allowance on this picture showing how non-violent the protestors were. Just people innocently caught up in the moment.
    That doesn’t show anything at all. That’s a pretty typical scene at any larger political rally where tempers are high; it certainly doesn’t show violent insurrection

    I personally witnessed far worse from the BLM rioters in Trafalgar Square during Covid - I saw attempted murder - and all that was briskly filed under “largely peaceful”

    I don’t doubt some bad shit happened on J6 but it’s not in your photo
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 664
    DavidL said:

    Strong evidence to support what you had been hearing about hospitality and retail: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9vmrpdrk4eo

    Record numbers of firms in distress, particularly in these sectors. It is really hard to see how we avoid a recession early this year and a significant jump in unemployment.
    Thought we had such a shortage of people we had to bring them in. MSM is so confusing these days.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,716
    Sandpit said:

    The West needs to quickly decide what to do about the Chinese cars. They’re good enough for people who just want transport, and about 20% cheaper than the Korean equivalents, 40% cheaper than the Japanese.
    We need to JV for domestic manufacturing.
    No way is the UK going to develop mass EV manufacturing which can compete with them independently.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,782
    Reform inching up

    Westminster Voting Intention:

    LAB: 25% (-1)
    CON: 24% (-1)
    RFM: 24% (+1)
    LDM: 14% (+1)
    GRN: 7% (=)
    SNP: 2% (=)

    Via @techneUK, 22-23 Jan.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,560

    Deep level tube between Westbourne Park and Stratford/Canary Wharf (and through Woolwich).

    So there!


    Otherwise the Channel Tunnel is a tube line...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,716
    boulay said:

    Ban them. A menace to society and a drain on A&E resources!
    Bit harsh on Network Rail Engineering there.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,924
    See its rumoured that 5 of the 7 MPs who lost the whip for voting against the 2 child benefit cap are to have the whip restored.

    Of course the 2 brown women are no longer welcome in SKS's racist, sexist, factional endeavour of a red Tory Party.

    TBF I think the 2 principled brown ladies are better off outside that cesspit of Zionism and Racism.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,716

    Also helped turn Orwell into one of the most important writers of the 20th century, so…
    I'm not sure he was there for a bit of paid tourism, though.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,506
    edited January 24

    In general, the number of rich people here, paying no/low tax, is quite low. Those that are, are generally foreigners who are here for limited periods of time.

    The belief that the rich pay no tax is about the Americanisation of internet discussion. So you can have a comic discussion with teenagers about healthcare - while they know the NHS exists, quite a few young people are radicalised on the subject of American style healthcare.

    For example, one friend of my daughter was adamant on the need for the law to change to allow the government to bargain with pharmaceutical companies over prices. She was slightly flummoxed when I pointed out that the UK does, on a massive scale. And gets quite good prices.
    You're absolutely right about drugs.

    When I was working for the government many years ago I went to a talk by the person in charge of crunching the numbers for this policy. He showed a schedule of average prices for non-generic drugs in the US compared to the UK. None was less than three times as expensive in the US and one was about a hundred times cheaper here.

    On this site people slag off our government a lot, myself included, but there are some things, like drug pricing or gun control, that this old country gets absolutely spot on, and it always feels good when I hear about one of those.

    If only we could extend it, to areas like the tax code, planning, energy policy or defence procurement.
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,624
    Leon said:

    Bluesky is the most echoey echo chamber I’ve ever encountered. I really don’t think it’s good for the left if they all hide over there, they will the be constantly surprised - in an unpleasant way - by the real world

    Because Bluesky is even less like reality than TwiX

    On the other hand it is definitely a nicer, calmer place to chat about fairly non contentious intellectual things. To meet archeologists and lexicologists

    It’s a terrible place to have a political argument
    I find for stuff I am interested in like old TV, Wrestling, Music and other things it is fine. Even the UK political commentary is fine. As soon as I switched to Following from For You it was fine.
This discussion has been closed.