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PB Predictions Competition 2025 – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,236
edited January 4 in General
imagePB Predictions Competition 2025 – politicalbetting.com

Picture – Matthaeus Loder – The Card Layer – Germanisches Nationalmuseum, Nuremberg

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  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,577
    edited January 4
    Second

    (First excluding people who stole the contest)
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,024
    Given my horse race tipping, no I don’t.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,385
    I do enjoy this. But given Ben Pointers tough marking scheme, and the numerical nature of many of the answers, the median score looks set to be zero I think.

    Interesting you didn't want to go with any like... who will be the leader of party x or who will be chancellor...
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,720
    This is a tough one. “How volatile is 2025?” is the question behind the questions. If the answer is very, then basically any set of answers is possible. Alternatively, things might settle down.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,256
    Good questions Ben, well done. The economic ones especially require a bit of thought and digging, plus a fair amount of contingency for ‘events’.

    Can be pretty sure the US$/Ruble rate will be double what it is now by this time next year - if they’re lucky! Even if the war ends, Europe’s not buying their gas again.

    I think I’ll place a large bet on the Ashes going 5-0 or 4-0 to Australia, as at least there will be something to look forward to when England get whitewashed!
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,217
    On question 7 worth noting that there will be a fixed 630 members in the Bundestag, which makes it a bit easier
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,582
    (FPT)

    Nigelb said:

    A tough front page for Starmer, without any need to invoke Musk.

    image

    Wasn't Leon just calling for her to be put in charge of an enquiry into the affair ?
    To be fair to her, her words do seem to have been manipulated by those with a particular agenda and the Musk narrative fanboyed by Max, Leon and William.

    Of course it might well work, but those masterbating over Trump appointee Musk's rants would be outraged if it was a Democrat politician interfering with our politics.

    I wasn't criticising Maggie Oliver; whether or not she's right, it's entirely fair for her to express such a view.
    It was Leon's suggestion that she be put in change of an enquiry, "with sweeping powers" that was absurd.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,774
    Sandpit said:

    Good questions Ben, well done. The economic ones especially require a bit of thought and digging, plus a fair amount of contingency for ‘events’.

    Can be pretty sure the US$/Ruble rate will be double what it is now by this time next year - if they’re lucky! Even if the war ends, Europe’s not buying their gas again.

    I think I’ll place a large bet on the Ashes going 5-0 or 4-0 to Australia, as at least there will be something to look forward to when England get whitewashed!

    It is the economic ones I find most daunting. I am not a City trader!
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,225
    Slipping a cricket question in at the end isn’t cricket!
  • MattWMattW Posts: 24,152
    Thank-you for the quiz, Ben.

    I'll might have added a couple of Govt performance metrics - perhaps NHS waiting lists at the end of 2025 would have been a good one. But these are tricky enough.

    It's pretty cool here at the top of Nottinghamshire. 0C with a predicted maximum of 2C today. A miserable several days incoming.

    Let me put my personal goals for this year here, so I can find them in 12 months time.

    Average of 5k steps per day.
    1500 km of cycling.
    25 anti-wheelchair barriers to be removed from local thoroughfares. Ideally a further 25 to be promised to be removed.
    Lose 6kg of weight *.

    * For Imperialists, that is one stone.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 24,152
    Nigelb said:

    (FPT)

    Nigelb said:

    A tough front page for Starmer, without any need to invoke Musk.

    image

    Wasn't Leon just calling for her to be put in charge of an enquiry into the affair ?
    To be fair to her, her words do seem to have been manipulated by those with a particular agenda and the Musk narrative fanboyed by Max, Leon and William.

    Of course it might well work, but those masterbating over Trump appointee Musk's rants would be outraged if it was a Democrat politician interfering with our politics.

    I wasn't criticising Maggie Oliver; whether or not she's right, it's entirely fair for her to express such a view.
    It was Leon's suggestion that she be put in change of an enquiry, "with sweeping powers" that was absurd.
    Perhaps he meant as Janitor? :smile:
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,035
    From a Guardian article on Luke Littler, the new 17 year old darts world champion.

    "Comparisons with other teenage prodigies are obviously inevitable. But this isn’t Emma Raducanu, because Littler is actually really good."

    Ouch.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,119

    From a Guardian article on Luke Littler, the new 17 year old darts world champion.

    "Comparisons with other teenage prodigies are obviously inevitable. But this isn’t Emma Raducanu, because Littler is actually really good."

    Ouch.

    To quote the late great Sid Waddell

    ‘When Alexander of Macedonia was 33, he cried salt tears because there were no more worlds to conquer, Littler’s only 17.’
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,594
    stodge said:

    Given my horse race tipping, no I don’t.

    Keep up your great work on the horses Stodge, for me at least
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,329
    The 'wisdom of the crowd' did very well on many of last year’s questions. So perhaps the best strategy is to wait until near the submission deadline and post the average of everyone else's entries?

    Of course, this fails if we all try the same approach!
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,024
    malcolmg said:

    stodge said:

    Given my horse race tipping, no I don’t.

    Keep up your great work on the horses Stodge, for me at least
    Thanks, I think. Going to be a quiet day on that front.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,275
    Morning PBers!


    Reform UK is just six points away from becoming the biggest party in parliament, an election predictor has found.

    Nigel Farage’s insurgent party could leapfrog both the Conservatives and Labour by gaining a few more percentage points of support, according to the analysis by polling firm Electoral Calculus.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/01/04/reform-six-points-off-biggest-party-election-prediction/
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,985
    Pondering these questions I've come up with a very gloomy set of answers. The only cheer I can find is wondering whether the ruble will even exist at the end of the year.

    I think I'll have to revisit what I've got so far on a sunnier morning.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,594
    stodge said:

    malcolmg said:

    stodge said:

    Given my horse race tipping, no I don’t.

    Keep up your great work on the horses Stodge, for me at least
    Thanks, I think. Going to be a quiet day on that front.
    Yes not a lot on today, I have done a small bet on Nicholls winning first 3 races at Sandown just for fun
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,841
    Thanks for posting up the competition TSE. I appreciate the questions are tricky but I reckon the PB collective can do as well at these as any body of 'experts'.

    I'm thinking that at the end I may try to see which entrant has the lowest average deviation from the to actual result - that' will test my spreadsheet skills.

    I will keep a watch through January for the entries, and post up regular reminders of the questions.

    Happy predicting!
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,774

    I see Andrew Tate is on the rape gang bandwagon.
    Most unfair that satire having been murdered several years ago that its corpse is now being repeatedly run over by a supercar driven by a weak chinned pervert.

    https://x.com/leftwinggc/status/1875106943548924128?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    Quite.

    Musk also vocally backed Matt Gaetz, with his stream of teenage prostitutes, at least one underage. Their confected outrage has nothing to do with protecting women or children.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,594
    @Benpointer Great questions again Ben, I did mine on first thoughts and sent via pm to you
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,256

    Sandpit said:

    Good questions Ben, well done. The economic ones especially require a bit of thought and digging, plus a fair amount of contingency for ‘events’.

    Can be pretty sure the US$/Ruble rate will be double what it is now by this time next year - if they’re lucky! Even if the war ends, Europe’s not buying their gas again.

    I think I’ll place a large bet on the Ashes going 5-0 or 4-0 to Australia, as at least there will be something to look forward to when England get whitewashed!

    It is the economic ones I find most daunting. I am not a City trader!
    I’m not a City trader either, but my initial thoughts are as follows:

    UK: benign economy, growth c.1% and inflation c.2%, a couple of rate cuts, borrowing down a bit.

    EU: flat to recessionary.

    China: very recessionary, lots of money printing.

    US: a lot of change coming from the new administration, for which the outcome in the short term is difficult to predict. Their borrowing in 2024 was 50% of the size of the UK economy! A pessimist would say stagflation from tariffs and reduced government spending, and an optimist would say a turbocharged economy from tax cuts and a clampdown on predatory business.

    ROW: better than all of the above.

    Oil price: down closer to $60

    Markets: S&P probably down as ‘big’ industry gets taken on, FTSE probably flat, Germany and China in trouble.

    Currencies: buy Greenbacks, sell Euros.

    The biggest unknowns are the building situation between China and Taiwan, and the war between Russia and Ukraine.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,774

    Morning PBers!


    Reform UK is just six points away from becoming the biggest party in parliament, an election predictor has found.

    Nigel Farage’s insurgent party could leapfrog both the Conservatives and Labour by gaining a few more percentage points of support, according to the analysis by polling firm Electoral Calculus.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/01/04/reform-six-points-off-biggest-party-election-prediction/

    Just six points away? Harris was less than six points away from winning the US presidency. Ditto Romney in 2012. Corbyn was less than six points away from winning the 2017 election, Howard less than six points away from the 2005 election.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,256

    From a Guardian article on Luke Littler, the new 17 year old darts world champion.

    "Comparisons with other teenage prodigies are obviously inevitable. But this isn’t Emma Raducanu, because Littler is actually really good."

    Ouch.

    Littler will win more prize money but will get fewer opportunities for fashion magazine photoshoots, being the less photogenic of the pair!
  • The more people say Labour is finished, the more I feel like they really aren’t. You could transplant this commentary back to 2021 and be confident in your prediction that one Boris Johnson would be PM until 2030. Which as we all know, is exactly what came to pass.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,164
    edited January 4
    Sandpit said:

    From a Guardian article on Luke Littler, the new 17 year old darts world champion.

    "Comparisons with other teenage prodigies are obviously inevitable. But this isn’t Emma Raducanu, because Littler is actually really good."

    Ouch.

    Littler will win more prize money but will get fewer opportunities for fashion magazine photoshoots, being the less photogenic of the pair!
    Also he is white, male and British, (and probably straight and working class) so gets zero woke points.

    Nobody will present him as a "a model of British diversity", or praise his "multicultural, multi-market resonance" or whatever embarassing drivel they spouted over the tennis player, as if the fact that somebody can hit a ball or throw a dart slightly better than someone else shows anything at all about a country.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,234
    Something for just about everyone here.
    Love the Tesla fluffer popping up in the replies.

    https://x.com/CitizenLenz/status/1875000088659124612
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,023
    Starmer won't fight the next GE as PM for a second term, and I've bet on that.
  • Starmer won't fight the next GE as PM for a second term, and I've bet on that.

    I tend to agree with this analysis but any replacement is likely to do significantly better on the charisma stakes and to rebuild the coalition so I would not be betting on the basis that it will result in a Labour loss.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,256

    Something for just about everyone here.
    Love the Tesla fluffer popping up in the replies.

    https://x.com/CitizenLenz/status/1875000088659124612

    He absolutely ended up in Las Vegas, New Mexico by mistake, then on to Las Vegas, Nevada.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,774
    Washington Post cartoonist resigns


  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,234

    From a Guardian article on Luke Littler, the new 17 year old darts world champion.

    "Comparisons with other teenage prodigies are obviously inevitable. But this isn’t Emma Raducanu, because Littler is actually really good."

    Ouch.

    PB obsessing about which nationality the colours of Raducanu's top represented (British! Chinese! Romanian! Canadian!) seems a very long time ago. Though I daresay at least one PBer could still manage a letch over her.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,588

    The more people say Labour is finished, the more I feel like they really aren’t. You could transplant this commentary back to 2021 and be confident in your prediction that one Boris Johnson would be PM until 2030. Which as we all know, is exactly what came to pass.

    I think that some on the left thought they were getting 1997 Part Deux.

    The honeymoon period evaporated really rapidly.

    For the next election, it’s all up in the air. The issue for Labour is that they are seen as part of the problem - along with the Conservatives and Lib Dem’s, the parties of the Consensus.

    Hence the wet fish slap from Starmer against the Blob. He needs to change things to move that needle. And it’s proving very, very difficult.
  • @BloombergUK Saturday read

    Keir Starmer’s new year message to his team was drown out the criticism, keep calm, stay focused on delivery

    But Labour insiders wonder if a steady-as-she-goes approach can weather the headwinds coming in a pivotal 2025

    https://x.com/alexwickham/status/1875467379104514394

    Again this is made out to be some superb analysis but this is what SKS has been doing since 2021. He has one strategy and he never diverges from it.

    Not getting involved with Elon Musk IMHO is sensible. He can’t win that war and can only win by showing delivery. If he does that, the voters will reward him.

    If not, it is Wes Streeting and New Labour is back.
  • The more people say Labour is finished, the more I feel like they really aren’t. You could transplant this commentary back to 2021 and be confident in your prediction that one Boris Johnson would be PM until 2030. Which as we all know, is exactly what came to pass.

    I think that some on the left thought they were getting 1997 Part Deux.

    The honeymoon period evaporated really rapidly.

    For the next election, it’s all up in the air. The issue for Labour is that they are seen as part of the problem - along with the Conservatives and Lib Dem’s, the parties of the Consensus.

    Hence the wet fish slap from Starmer against the Blob. He needs to change things to move that needle. And it’s proving very, very difficult.
    If you’ll forgive me, I don’t think I said this would be like 1997 beyond the scale of the victory. It’s very different.

    Do I think SKS has a strategy. Yes I do.

    Will it be successful? Not sure.

    But any potential replacement will increase the odds of Labour winning again/continuing to govern IMHO.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,623

    From a Guardian article on Luke Littler, the new 17 year old darts world champion.

    "Comparisons with other teenage prodigies are obviously inevitable. But this isn’t Emma Raducanu, because Littler is actually really good."

    Ouch.

    PB obsessing about which nationality the colours of Raducanu's top represented (British! Chinese! Romanian! Canadian!) seems a very long time ago. Though I daresay at least one PBer could still manage a letch over her.
    There are those on PB who would lech over a picture of the Virgin Mary. Hell, I've read PBTories lech over SNP politicians.

    #emetic
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,225

    The more people say Labour is finished, the more I feel like they really aren’t. You could transplant this commentary back to 2021 and be confident in your prediction that one Boris Johnson would be PM until 2030. Which as we all know, is exactly what came to pass.

    I can’t remember what time of day it was when he resigned, myself.
  • Sir Tony in government by 2029? Doesn’t seem implausible.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,810

    Morning PBers!


    Reform UK is just six points away from becoming the biggest party in parliament, an election predictor has found.

    Nigel Farage’s insurgent party could leapfrog both the Conservatives and Labour by gaining a few more percentage points of support, according to the analysis by polling firm Electoral Calculus.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/01/04/reform-six-points-off-biggest-party-election-prediction/

    Just six points away? Harris was less than six points away from winning the US presidency. Ditto Romney in 2012. Corbyn was less than six points away from winning the 2017 election, Howard less than six points away from the 2005 election.
    Anyone else remember the Alliance in the v. early’80’s?

    Good Morning everyone!
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,234
    Carnyx said:

    From a Guardian article on Luke Littler, the new 17 year old darts world champion.

    "Comparisons with other teenage prodigies are obviously inevitable. But this isn’t Emma Raducanu, because Littler is actually really good."

    Ouch.

    PB obsessing about which nationality the colours of Raducanu's top represented (British! Chinese! Romanian! Canadian!) seems a very long time ago. Though I daresay at least one PBer could still manage a letch over her.
    There are those on PB who would lech over a picture of the Virgin Mary. Hell, I've read PBTories lech over SNP politicians.

    #emetic
    Tbf John Swinney is a bit phwoaaar.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,588

    The more people say Labour is finished, the more I feel like they really aren’t. You could transplant this commentary back to 2021 and be confident in your prediction that one Boris Johnson would be PM until 2030. Which as we all know, is exactly what came to pass.

    I think that some on the left thought they were getting 1997 Part Deux.

    The honeymoon period evaporated really rapidly.

    For the next election, it’s all up in the air. The issue for Labour is that they are seen as part of the problem - along with the Conservatives and Lib Dem’s, the parties of the Consensus.

    Hence the wet fish slap from Starmer against the Blob. He needs to change things to move that needle. And it’s proving very, very difficult.
    If you’ll forgive me, I don’t think I said this would be like 1997 beyond the scale of the victory. It’s very different.

    Do I think SKS has a strategy. Yes I do.

    Will it be successful? Not sure.

    But any potential replacement will increase the odds of Labour winning again/continuing to govern IMHO.
    I didn’t say you - I said “some”. I think that includes a few at the top of the Labour Party, though.

    Merely changing leaders doesn’t improve your chances. Changing to a better leader makes them better. See some recent history for the reverse happening.
  • BatteryCorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorse Posts: 4,316
    edited January 4

    The more people say Labour is finished, the more I feel like they really aren’t. You could transplant this commentary back to 2021 and be confident in your prediction that one Boris Johnson would be PM until 2030. Which as we all know, is exactly what came to pass.

    I think that some on the left thought they were getting 1997 Part Deux.

    The honeymoon period evaporated really rapidly.

    For the next election, it’s all up in the air. The issue for Labour is that they are seen as part of the problem - along with the Conservatives and Lib Dem’s, the parties of the Consensus.

    Hence the wet fish slap from Starmer against the Blob. He needs to change things to move that needle. And it’s proving very, very difficult.
    If you’ll forgive me, I don’t think I said this would be like 1997 beyond the scale of the victory. It’s very different.

    Do I think SKS has a strategy. Yes I do.

    Will it be successful? Not sure.

    But any potential replacement will increase the odds of Labour winning again/continuing to govern IMHO.
    I didn’t say you - I said “some”. I think that includes a few at the top of the Labour Party, though.

    Merely changing leaders doesn’t improve your chances. Changing to a better leader makes them better. See some recent history for the reverse happening.
    You’re right about changing leader doesn’t always help but in the case of Labour any replacement will resolve any of the issues that Keir Starmer has. I’m not as convinced about the Tories or Reform who are basically stuck.

    You are also right that some did think this 1997 part two. Whilst I was surprised that SKS’s ratings dropped quite as quickly as they did, I was under no illusion that he was ever really very popular. But I don’t think he’s really hated either, I am more confident in that analysis every day just purely from PB.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,594

    @BloombergUK Saturday read

    Keir Starmer’s new year message to his team was drown out the criticism, keep calm, stay focused on delivery

    But Labour insiders wonder if a steady-as-she-goes approach can weather the headwinds coming in a pivotal 2025

    https://x.com/alexwickham/status/1875467379104514394

    Again this is made out to be some superb analysis but this is what SKS has been doing since 2021. He has one strategy and he never diverges from it.

    Not getting involved with Elon Musk IMHO is sensible. He can’t win that war and can only win by showing delivery. If he does that, the voters will reward him.

    If not, it is Wes Streeting and New Labour is back.

    The dud will crash and burn and Streeting is just as crap.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 24,152
    edited January 4
    Speeches at the Reform UK East Midlands conference in Leicester yesterday:

    The Leeanderthal Man - imo worth a listen to see the current style:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDSOooaibMo

    (15 minutes. Pure populism, emotion not reason, and doubling down on many of the things he said before - such as his claim that Sadiq Khan has been controlled by Islamists. He's funny on renewable energy - 'They are burning wood pellets in Drax Power Station, and at the same time they are cutting down trees, they are telling us to plant more trees - it's madness'.

    Claims 160k RefUK members, and 1000 'fully vetted' candidates in place for the local elections, which is more than half the seats up for election.)

    Mr Farage ( I haven't listened yet):
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1A-FHX2dAI
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,344

    From a Guardian article on Luke Littler, the new 17 year old darts world champion.

    "Comparisons with other teenage prodigies are obviously inevitable. But this isn’t Emma Raducanu, because Littler is actually really good."

    Ouch.

    Radicanu is young and may come back, but has done little of note since her grand slam win.

    Littler has consistently won competitions since he burst onto the scene and has just got better and better.

    He also seems to have the respect and friendship of his fellow professionals too.
  • Taz said:

    From a Guardian article on Luke Littler, the new 17 year old darts world champion.

    "Comparisons with other teenage prodigies are obviously inevitable. But this isn’t Emma Raducanu, because Littler is actually really good."

    Ouch.

    Radicanu is young and may come back, but has done little of note since her grand slam win.

    Littler has consistently won competitions since he burst onto the scene and has just got better and better.

    He also seems to have the respect and friendship of his fellow professionals too.
    I recall when she first won that I said she was pretty overrated and I couldn’t understand the hype.

    “She’s going to make millions”, “deal with Vodafone”. I’m sure she did very well out of it but as far as I can tell most of the brands have either dropped her or in the case of Vodafone she’s essentially been relegated to invisible.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,588

    The more people say Labour is finished, the more I feel like they really aren’t. You could transplant this commentary back to 2021 and be confident in your prediction that one Boris Johnson would be PM until 2030. Which as we all know, is exactly what came to pass.

    I think that some on the left thought they were getting 1997 Part Deux.

    The honeymoon period evaporated really rapidly.

    For the next election, it’s all up in the air. The issue for Labour is that they are seen as part of the problem - along with the Conservatives and Lib Dem’s, the parties of the Consensus.

    Hence the wet fish slap from Starmer against the Blob. He needs to change things to move that needle. And it’s proving very, very difficult.
    If you’ll forgive me, I don’t think I said this would be like 1997 beyond the scale of the victory. It’s very different.

    Do I think SKS has a strategy. Yes I do.

    Will it be successful? Not sure.

    But any potential replacement will increase the odds of Labour winning again/continuing to govern IMHO.
    I didn’t say you - I said “some”. I think that includes a few at the top of the Labour Party, though.

    Merely changing leaders doesn’t improve your chances. Changing to a better leader makes them better. See some recent history for the reverse happening.
    You’re right about changing leader doesn’t always help but in the case of Labour any replacement will resolve any of the issues that Keir Starmer has. I’m not as convinced about the Tories or Reform who are basically stuck.

    You are also right that some did think this 1997 part two. Whilst I was surprised that SKS’s ratings dropped quite as quickly as they did, I was under no illusion that he was ever really very popular. But I don’t think he’s really hated either, I am more confident in that analysis every day just purely from PB.
    I don’t think Reform are stuck, unfortunately.

    What they are dependent on, is further failure from the big two. Which seems quite likely to be delivered.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 24,152
    MattW said:

    Speeches at the Reform UK East Midlands conference in Leicester yesterday:

    The Leeanderthal Man - imo worth a listen to see the current style:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDSOooaibMo

    (15 minutes. Pure populism, emotion not reason, and doubling down on many of the things he said before - such as his claim that Sadiq Khan has been controlled by Islamists. He's funny on renewable energy - 'They are burning wood pellets in Drax Power Station, and at the same time they are cutting down trees, they are telling us to plant more trees - it's madness'.

    Claims 160k RefUK members, and 1000 'fully vetted' candidates in place for the local elections, which is more than half the seats up for election.)

    Mr Farage ( I haven't listened yet):
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1A-FHX2dAI

    Deep link to Farage Speech, dodging the warm-ups.
    https://youtu.be/M1A-FHX2dAI?t=2650
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,385

    Starmer won't fight the next GE as PM for a second term, and I've bet on that.

    Where and what odds?
  • The more people say Labour is finished, the more I feel like they really aren’t. You could transplant this commentary back to 2021 and be confident in your prediction that one Boris Johnson would be PM until 2030. Which as we all know, is exactly what came to pass.

    I think that some on the left thought they were getting 1997 Part Deux.

    The honeymoon period evaporated really rapidly.

    For the next election, it’s all up in the air. The issue for Labour is that they are seen as part of the problem - along with the Conservatives and Lib Dem’s, the parties of the Consensus.

    Hence the wet fish slap from Starmer against the Blob. He needs to change things to move that needle. And it’s proving very, very difficult.
    If you’ll forgive me, I don’t think I said this would be like 1997 beyond the scale of the victory. It’s very different.

    Do I think SKS has a strategy. Yes I do.

    Will it be successful? Not sure.

    But any potential replacement will increase the odds of Labour winning again/continuing to govern IMHO.
    I didn’t say you - I said “some”. I think that includes a few at the top of the Labour Party, though.

    Merely changing leaders doesn’t improve your chances. Changing to a better leader makes them better. See some recent history for the reverse happening.
    You’re right about changing leader doesn’t always help but in the case of Labour any replacement will resolve any of the issues that Keir Starmer has. I’m not as convinced about the Tories or Reform who are basically stuck.

    You are also right that some did think this 1997 part two. Whilst I was surprised that SKS’s ratings dropped quite as quickly as they did, I was under no illusion that he was ever really very popular. But I don’t think he’s really hated either, I am more confident in that analysis every day just purely from PB.
    I don’t think Reform are stuck, unfortunately.

    What they are dependent on, is further failure from the big two. Which seems quite likely to be delivered.
    I think Reform are going to do very well but I just can’t buy them being in government. It feels too easy, too obvious.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,567

    The more people say Labour is finished, the more I feel like they really aren’t. You could transplant this commentary back to 2021 and be confident in your prediction that one Boris Johnson would be PM until 2030. Which as we all know, is exactly what came to pass.

    I think that some on the left thought they were getting 1997 Part Deux.

    The honeymoon period evaporated really rapidly.

    For the next election, it’s all up in the air. The issue for Labour is that they are seen as part of the problem - along with the Conservatives and Lib Dem’s, the parties of the Consensus.

    Hence the wet fish slap from Starmer against the Blob. He needs to change things to move that needle. And it’s proving very, very difficult.
    Though that's in part because it is difficult- hence the global kicking of incumbents. In addition, there's the UK thing where we're used to getting something for (apparently) nothing, and lots of the bills from previous decades are now coming due.

    And yes, there have been some bad mistakes on the way. One of the things 2025 will reveal is how much they are teething trouble and how much they are fundamental.

    But a little of the noise we're hearing (and yesterday was an especially unedifying example) is howls of rage from people who didn't get the election result they wanted. Possibly for the first time since 1974- in other words, basically forever.

    Something something get over it, as I believe the advice goes.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,839
    edited January 4


    Not getting involved with Elon Musk IMHO is sensible. He can’t win that war and can only win by showing delivery. If he does that, the voters will reward him.

    SKS would only legitimise fuckface by clapping back at him. He should have deniable underlings shitting on Musk at every opportunity though. MI6 must have something on the c-nt. Musk is only rich; but SKS has the power of nation state at his disposal, if he is enough of a prick to deploy it.
  • Foxy said:

    A tough front page for Starmer, without any need to invoke Musk.

    Hysterical nonsense.

    Is he as guilty as the actual rapists? Why?

    Utterly absurd.
    Talking of hysteria, have you seen PB this evening? You'd never guess Leon is back and on fire!
    It was a sewer last night. PB is getting as bad as Twitter at times.

    It's going to kill the site as a place for polite and respectful political debate.

    It's time to check out for a bit.
    Astute as always @Foxy. This site really has gone down a lot of levels since Labour won. It wasn’t at all like this after Johnson won in 2019 which is a shame as there are a lot of good people still here - but I note posting less - from both sides of the aisle.

    But “insert politician here is crap” and “Elon Musk is fabulous” and “Nigel for PM” makes this site less and less interesting. I can go to Twitter and get the same analysis.

    I still like to post here as I do value hearing from those who oppose me but I have to concede, it’s way less good than it was.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,582

    From a Guardian article on Luke Littler, the new 17 year old darts world champion.

    "Comparisons with other teenage prodigies are obviously inevitable. But this isn’t Emma Raducanu, because Littler is actually really good."

    Ouch.

    To quote the late great Sid Waddell

    ‘When Alexander of Macedonia was 33, he cried salt tears because there were no more worlds to conquer, Littler’s only 17.’
    There's still SPOTY...
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,810
    Taz said:

    From a Guardian article on Luke Littler, the new 17 year old darts world champion.

    "Comparisons with other teenage prodigies are obviously inevitable. But this isn’t Emma Raducanu, because Littler is actually really good."

    Ouch.

    Radicanu is young and may come back, but has done little of note since her grand slam win.

    Littler has consistently won competitions since he burst onto the scene and has just got better and better.

    He also seems to have the respect and friendship of his fellow professionals too.
    Raducanu is also bright ..... several good A levels IIRC. She should go to somewhere like Loughborough where should slowly return to fitness, keep her tennis going and prepare for a world after sport.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,870
    Good morning

    This forum became very heated last night and I do wonder just where all of this is going

    The problem as I see it is Starmer is increasingly unpopular, as is his government, but the conservative party is moribund, the Lib Dems anonymous, and in this vacuum steps Farage, Reform, Musk and Trump

    Starmer is yet again to make another resetting speech on Monday, but I expect anything he says will be drowned out by the media who seem obsessed by Musk and Trump who aren't even in office yet

    It has been said they intend intervening in the trial of the Southport attacker, as they cannot be prevented in commentating on it

    This does raise profound implications and as much as I am opposed to Starmer and Labour, it makes one very uneasy as to where this is all going

    Some on here critise Kemi Badenoch, but the real danger to our politics is not from her but Farage and the far right

    It seems at his Leicester conference last night that when he rejected Robinson joining, he was heckled by some present

    Labour supporters are experiencing a similar period to the anti Johnson post partygate time, and frankly I do not see it getting any easier for them whilst Starmer and Reeves are in charge
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,567

    The more people say Labour is finished, the more I feel like they really aren’t. You could transplant this commentary back to 2021 and be confident in your prediction that one Boris Johnson would be PM until 2030. Which as we all know, is exactly what came to pass.

    I think that some on the left thought they were getting 1997 Part Deux.

    The honeymoon period evaporated really rapidly.

    For the next election, it’s all up in the air. The issue for Labour is that they are seen as part of the problem - along with the Conservatives and Lib Dem’s, the parties of the Consensus.

    Hence the wet fish slap from Starmer against the Blob. He needs to change things to move that needle. And it’s proving very, very difficult.
    If you’ll forgive me, I don’t think I said this would be like 1997 beyond the scale of the victory. It’s very different.

    Do I think SKS has a strategy. Yes I do.

    Will it be successful? Not sure.

    But any potential replacement will increase the odds of Labour winning again/continuing to govern IMHO.
    I didn’t say you - I said “some”. I think that includes a few at the top of the Labour Party, though.

    Merely changing leaders doesn’t improve your chances. Changing to a better leader makes them better. See some recent history for the reverse happening.
    You’re right about changing leader doesn’t always help but in the case of Labour any replacement will resolve any of the issues that Keir Starmer has. I’m not as convinced about the Tories or Reform who are basically stuck.

    You are also right that some did think this 1997 part two. Whilst I was surprised that SKS’s ratings dropped quite as quickly as they did, I was under no illusion that he was ever really very popular. But I don’t think he’s really hated either, I am more confident in that analysis every day just purely from PB.
    I don’t think Reform are stuck, unfortunately.

    What they are dependent on, is further failure from the big two. Which seems quite likely to be delivered.
    Also- how long does Farage keep it up? How long is he able to, how long does he want to? Does he actually want to be PM, or is croaking from the sidelines more fun and less work?

    Without him as figurehead, I'm not sure it works.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,234
    Dura_Ace said:


    Not getting involved with Elon Musk IMHO is sensible. He can’t win that war and can only win by showing delivery. If he does that, the voters will reward him.

    SKS would only legitimise fuckface by clapping back at him. He should have deniable underlings shitting on Musk at every opportunity though. MI6 must have something on the c-nt. Musk is only rich; but SKS has the power of nation state at his disposal, if he is enough of a prick to deploy it.
    Instead the underlings are queueing up to 'suck the cock of a creep'. Not a paticular fan of Jess Phillips but I hope she's had her personal security ramped up.

    https://x.com/IrvineWelsh/status/1875479743250018354

  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,130
    A 'somewhat' biased source, but this stuff does seem to be taking an awfully long time :

    https://www.inkl.com/news/nicola-sturgeon-won-t-get-charged-as-police-probe-snp-finances-kc-predicts

    (original paywalled at https://www.thenational.scot/news/24816132.operation-branchform-nicola-sturgeon-wont-get-charged-kc-predicts/ )

    NICOLA Sturgeon is not likely to face any charges under the Police Scotland probe into SNP finances, a top Scottish KC has said.

    Thomas Leonard Ross, a criminal defence lawyer and former president of the Scottish Bar Association, also said he did not expect to see any charges brought against Colin Beattie, the former treasurer of the SNP.

    Both Beattie and Sturgeon were arrested, questioned, and released without charge in 2023 as part of the ongoing Operation Branchform, which has seen police investigate what happened to some £600,000 raised by the SNP to fight a second independence campaign.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 24,152

    Good morning

    This forum became very heated last night and I do wonder just where all of this is going

    The problem as I see it is Starmer is increasingly unpopular, as is his government, but the conservative party is moribund, the Lib Dems anonymous, and in this vacuum steps Farage, Reform, Musk and Trump

    Starmer is yet again to make another resetting speech on Monday, but I expect anything he says will be drowned out by the media who seem obsessed by Musk and Trump who aren't even in office yet

    It has been said they intend intervening in the trial of the Southport attacker, as they cannot be prevented in commentating on it

    This does raise profound implications and as much as I am opposed to Starmer and Labour, it makes one very uneasy as to where this is all going

    Some on here critise Kemi Badenoch, but the real danger to our politics is not from her but Farage and the far right

    It seems at his Leicester conference last night that when he rejected Robinson joining, he was heckled by some present

    Labour supporters are experiencing a similar period to the anti Johnson post partygate time, and frankly I do not see it getting any easier for them whilst Starmer and Reeves are in charge

    I've linked the speech.

    The chat has a fair bit of "Tommy" in it, although these tend to be buried in bots if there is no moderation team appointed.

    https://youtu.be/M1A-FHX2dAI?t=2650
  • MattWMattW Posts: 24,152
    ohnotnow said:

    A 'somewhat' biased source, but this stuff does seem to be taking an awfully long time :

    https://www.inkl.com/news/nicola-sturgeon-won-t-get-charged-as-police-probe-snp-finances-kc-predicts

    (original paywalled at https://www.thenational.scot/news/24816132.operation-branchform-nicola-sturgeon-wont-get-charged-kc-predicts/ )

    NICOLA Sturgeon is not likely to face any charges under the Police Scotland probe into SNP finances, a top Scottish KC has said.

    Thomas Leonard Ross, a criminal defence lawyer and former president of the Scottish Bar Association, also said he did not expect to see any charges brought against Colin Beattie, the former treasurer of the SNP.

    Both Beattie and Sturgeon were arrested, questioned, and released without charge in 2023 as part of the ongoing Operation Branchform, which has seen police investigate what happened to some £600,000 raised by the SNP to fight a second independence campaign.

    Full piece:
    https://archive.is/20250104070339/https://www.thenational.scot/news/24816132.operation-branchform-nicola-sturgeon-wont-get-charged-kc-predicts/
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,774

    Foxy said:

    A tough front page for Starmer, without any need to invoke Musk.

    Hysterical nonsense.

    Is he as guilty as the actual rapists? Why?

    Utterly absurd.
    Talking of hysteria, have you seen PB this evening? You'd never guess Leon is back and on fire!
    It was a sewer last night. PB is getting as bad as Twitter at times.

    It's going to kill the site as a place for polite and respectful political debate.

    It's time to check out for a bit.
    Astute as always @Foxy. This site really has gone down a lot of levels since Labour won. It wasn’t at all like this after Johnson won in 2019 which is a shame as there are a lot of good people still here - but I note posting less - from both sides of the aisle.

    But “insert politician here is crap” and “Elon Musk is fabulous” and “Nigel for PM” makes this site less and less interesting. I can go to Twitter and get the same analysis.

    I still like to post here as I do value hearing from those who oppose me but I have to concede, it’s way less good than it was.
    The US has a three strikes rule. If PB had a rule that, say, anyone banned 6 times should be permanently banned, we’d have a much nicer environment.
  • Dura_Ace said:


    Not getting involved with Elon Musk IMHO is sensible. He can’t win that war and can only win by showing delivery. If he does that, the voters will reward him.

    SKS would only legitimise fuckface by clapping back at him. He should have deniable underlings shitting on Musk at every opportunity though. MI6 must have something on the c-nt. Musk is only rich; but SKS has the power of nation state at his disposal, if he is enough of a prick to deploy it.
    Instead the underlings are queueing up to 'suck the cock of a creep'. Not a paticular fan of Jess Phillips but I hope she's had her personal security ramped up.

    https://x.com/IrvineWelsh/status/1875479743250018354

    I'm sorry, but that's a ridiculous point from Irvine Welsh.

    Whilst it's true that comments like Musk's are awful and create a risk for others like Phillips, you clearly don't reduce that risk by getting into a flame war with the troll. However much it sticks in the throat, you try to take some of the heat out of the situation.
  • Foxy said:

    A tough front page for Starmer, without any need to invoke Musk.

    Hysterical nonsense.

    Is he as guilty as the actual rapists? Why?

    Utterly absurd.
    Talking of hysteria, have you seen PB this evening? You'd never guess Leon is back and on fire!
    It was a sewer last night. PB is getting as bad as Twitter at times.

    It's going to kill the site as a place for polite and respectful political debate.

    It's time to check out for a bit.
    Astute as always @Foxy. This site really has gone down a lot of levels since Labour won. It wasn’t at all like this after Johnson won in 2019 which is a shame as there are a lot of good people still here - but I note posting less - from both sides of the aisle.

    But “insert politician here is crap” and “Elon Musk is fabulous” and “Nigel for PM” makes this site less and less interesting. I can go to Twitter and get the same analysis.

    I still like to post here as I do value hearing from those who oppose me but I have to concede, it’s way less good than it was.
    The US has a three strikes rule. If PB had a rule that, say, anyone banned 6 times should be permanently banned, we’d have a much nicer environment.
    I would be close to being gone but I would accept that if the site improved for others.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,774
    ohnotnow said:

    A 'somewhat' biased source, but this stuff does seem to be taking an awfully long time :

    https://www.inkl.com/news/nicola-sturgeon-won-t-get-charged-as-police-probe-snp-finances-kc-predicts

    (original paywalled at https://www.thenational.scot/news/24816132.operation-branchform-nicola-sturgeon-wont-get-charged-kc-predicts/ )

    NICOLA Sturgeon is not likely to face any charges under the Police Scotland probe into SNP finances, a top Scottish KC has said.

    Thomas Leonard Ross, a criminal defence lawyer and former president of the Scottish Bar Association, also said he did not expect to see any charges brought against Colin Beattie, the former treasurer of the SNP.

    Both Beattie and Sturgeon were arrested, questioned, and released without charge in 2023 as part of the ongoing Operation Branchform, which has seen police investigate what happened to some £600,000 raised by the SNP to fight a second independence campaign.

    Is Ross party to any information that the rest of us are not?
  • Barnesian said:

    Good morning

    This forum became very heated last night and I do wonder just where all of this is going

    The problem as I see it is Starmer is increasingly unpopular, as is his government, but the conservative party is moribund, the Lib Dems anonymous, and in this vacuum steps Farage, Reform, Musk and Trump

    Starmer is yet again to make another resetting speech on Monday, but I expect anything he says will be drowned out by the media who seem obsessed by Musk and Trump who aren't even in office yet

    It has been said they intend intervening in the trial of the Southport attacker, as they cannot be prevented in commentating on it

    This does raise profound implications and as much as I am opposed to Starmer and Labour, it makes one very uneasy as to where this is all going

    Some on here critise Kemi Badenoch, but the real danger to our politics is not from her but Farage and the far right

    It seems at his Leicester conference last night that when he rejected Robinson joining, he was heckled by some present

    Labour supporters are experiencing a similar period to the anti Johnson post partygate time, and frankly I do not see it getting any easier for them whilst Starmer and Reeves are in charge

    I agree that last night was very unpleasant here.

    Part of the problem is the sloganising.

    "Starmer is useless" with no supporting argument
    "Musk is a xxxx" with no added insights or predictions or context.
    It's just venting and is of zero value. You can get it on X all the time if that's what you want.

    The bigger problem, and it's putting me off the site, is the personal invective.
    "You are a moron" repeatedly with no humour, simply to shout a contributor down.

    I'm going to start flagging posts of this nature, and if you care about the site, I suggest you do the same.
    The problem is, using the flag button now just results in abuse. I do think it would make more sense if we could see who has flagged a post and for what reason.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,567
    Interesting piece of research in Politics Home:

    Who are Reform members?

    Research by the Party Members Project shows they're...

    Older, very unlikely to be in London, and likely to identify as "fairly" or "very" right-wing

    Strongly opposed to net zero by 2050 and Thatcherite on tax and spend

    Very online — more than members of all other parties

    https://bsky.app/profile/politicshome.bsky.social/post/3levtfqwpjs2z
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,234

    Dura_Ace said:


    Not getting involved with Elon Musk IMHO is sensible. He can’t win that war and can only win by showing delivery. If he does that, the voters will reward him.

    SKS would only legitimise fuckface by clapping back at him. He should have deniable underlings shitting on Musk at every opportunity though. MI6 must have something on the c-nt. Musk is only rich; but SKS has the power of nation state at his disposal, if he is enough of a prick to deploy it.
    Instead the underlings are queueing up to 'suck the cock of a creep'. Not a paticular fan of Jess Phillips but I hope she's had her personal security ramped up.

    https://x.com/IrvineWelsh/status/1875479743250018354

    I'm sorry, but that's a ridiculous point from Irvine Welsh.

    Whilst it's true that comments like Musk's are awful and create a risk for others like Phillips, you clearly don't reduce that risk by getting into a flame war with the troll. However much it sticks in the throat, you try to take some of the heat out of the situation.
    Saying nothing is an option, particularly as I'm not sure what the increasingly Ket-addled Musk has to do with Streeting's remit Health.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,230

    Taz said:

    From a Guardian article on Luke Littler, the new 17 year old darts world champion.

    "Comparisons with other teenage prodigies are obviously inevitable. But this isn’t Emma Raducanu, because Littler is actually really good."

    Ouch.

    Radicanu is young and may come back, but has done little of note since her grand slam win.

    Littler has consistently won competitions since he burst onto the scene and has just got better and better.

    He also seems to have the respect and friendship of his fellow professionals too.
    Raducanu is also bright ..... several good A levels IIRC. She should go to somewhere like Loughborough where should slowly return to fitness, keep her tennis going and prepare for a world after sport.
    Her net worth will already be in the 5-10 million range, it is not like she needs a fall back career as a leisure centre manager or accountant. She will also easily be able to earn £250k per year plus from media without much time or effort for the rest of her life.

    She hasn't progressed because she has been injured persistenty, not an unusual occurence in young sportspeople. If she had stayed fit she would be comfortably top 10.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,130

    ohnotnow said:

    A 'somewhat' biased source, but this stuff does seem to be taking an awfully long time :

    https://www.inkl.com/news/nicola-sturgeon-won-t-get-charged-as-police-probe-snp-finances-kc-predicts

    (original paywalled at https://www.thenational.scot/news/24816132.operation-branchform-nicola-sturgeon-wont-get-charged-kc-predicts/ )

    NICOLA Sturgeon is not likely to face any charges under the Police Scotland probe into SNP finances, a top Scottish KC has said.

    Thomas Leonard Ross, a criminal defence lawyer and former president of the Scottish Bar Association, also said he did not expect to see any charges brought against Colin Beattie, the former treasurer of the SNP.

    Both Beattie and Sturgeon were arrested, questioned, and released without charge in 2023 as part of the ongoing Operation Branchform, which has seen police investigate what happened to some £600,000 raised by the SNP to fight a second independence campaign.

    Is Ross party to any information that the rest of us are not?
    Wouldn't have thought so - just a guess based on his past experience. But as a naive outsider - 18 months since the arrest and nothing from them? Even for the police that seems quite slow if they had some concrete evidence.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,870
    Barnesian said:

    Good morning

    This forum became very heated last night and I do wonder just where all of this is going

    The problem as I see it is Starmer is increasingly unpopular, as is his government, but the conservative party is moribund, the Lib Dems anonymous, and in this vacuum steps Farage, Reform, Musk and Trump

    Starmer is yet again to make another resetting speech on Monday, but I expect anything he says will be drowned out by the media who seem obsessed by Musk and Trump who aren't even in office yet

    It has been said they intend intervening in the trial of the Southport attacker, as they cannot be prevented in commentating on it

    This does raise profound implications and as much as I am opposed to Starmer and Labour, it makes one very uneasy as to where this is all going

    Some on here critise Kemi Badenoch, but the real danger to our politics is not from her but Farage and the far right

    It seems at his Leicester conference last night that when he rejected Robinson joining, he was heckled by some present

    Labour supporters are experiencing a similar period to the anti Johnson post partygate time, and frankly I do not see it getting any easier for them whilst Starmer and Reeves are in charge

    I agree that last night was very unpleasant here.

    Part of the problem is the sloganising.

    "Starmer is useless" with no supporting argument
    "Musk is a xxxx" with no added insights or predictions or context.
    It's just venting and is of zero value. You can get it on X all the time if that's what you want.

    The bigger problem, and it's putting me off the site, is the personal invective.
    "You are a moron" repeatedly with no humour, simply to shout a contributor down.

    I'm going to start flagging posts of this nature, and if you care about the site, I suggest you do the same.
    I wont flag anyone, though I agree the personal invective is unnecessary

    I hope it calms down,,but I am concerned for the wider implications to our democracy
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,582
    Cabinet members felt frozen with fear, unable to stop Yoon's martial law declaration

    https://m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.asp?newsIdx=389640
    Many Cabinet members felt "frozen" during the meeting held just before the martial law declaration, unable to oppose President Yoon Suk Yeol for fear that the military might encircle and control them.

    According to multiple government sources on Thursday, some Cabinet members expressed fears after the emergency Cabinet meeting, which was held at 10:17 p.m., Dec. 3.

    One member was quoted as saying, "What if the military seizes my home?" Another said, "I was frozen at the very mention of martial law."

    Yoon concluded the Cabinet meeting as a formality and immediately declared martial law...


  • I just don’t know where we draw the line on free speech.

    Elon Musk calling Jess Phillips a rape gang supporter is surely beyond the pale.

    Would he have been able to have that amplified or made that note if he didn’t own Twitter? It’s very worrying that people can just buy the ability to shout the loudest now.
  • Interesting piece of research in Politics Home:

    Who are Reform members?

    Research by the Party Members Project shows they're...

    Older, very unlikely to be in London, and likely to identify as "fairly" or "very" right-wing

    Strongly opposed to net zero by 2050 and Thatcherite on tax and spend

    Very online — more than members of all other parties

    https://bsky.app/profile/politicshome.bsky.social/post/3levtfqwpjs2z

    I thought Reform were former Labour voters and so would be more up for state spending? I thought this was followed up by their promising to nationalise water?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,230

    Interesting piece of research in Politics Home:

    Who are Reform members?

    Research by the Party Members Project shows they're...

    Older, very unlikely to be in London, and likely to identify as "fairly" or "very" right-wing

    Strongly opposed to net zero by 2050 and Thatcherite on tax and spend

    Very online — more than members of all other parties

    https://bsky.app/profile/politicshome.bsky.social/post/3levtfqwpjs2z

    Seeing as they are radicalised by fake news from facebook, twatter, Gbeebies, the mail and telegraph that is hardly surprising.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,582
    Presidential security officials snub police request for questioning

    https://m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.asp?newsIdx=389695
    The top two officials of the Presidential Security Service (PSS) snubbed a police request to appear for questioning Saturday, a day after foiling the state anti-corruption agency's attempt to arrest impeached President Yoon Suk Yeol.

    In a message to media, the PSS said neither its Chief Park Chong-jun nor Deputy Kim Seong-hoon could leave their positions "even for a moment," citing the gravity of the situation in providing security for Yoon.

    The PSS added they were in talks with police to reschedule the questioning session.

    On Friday, the Corruption Investigation Office for High-ranking Officials (CIO) sought to execute its warrant to arrest Yoon over his failed martial law bid from December. However, the CIO halted its attempt after a standoff with PSS officials and soldiers for some six hours, saying some 200 people had formed a human wall that blocked entry to the presidential residence...
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,214
    Dura_Ace said:


    Not getting involved with Elon Musk IMHO is sensible. He can’t win that war and can only win by showing delivery. If he does that, the voters will reward him.

    SKS would only legitimise fuckface by clapping back at him. He should have deniable underlings shitting on Musk at every opportunity though. MI6 must have something on the c-nt. Musk is only rich; but SKS has the power of nation state at his disposal, if he is enough of a prick to deploy it.
    As I said yesterday, Starmer was too weak to tell the President of Mauritius to get fucked. He's a full on beta male.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,069
    Dura_Ace said:


    Not getting involved with Elon Musk IMHO is sensible. He can’t win that war and can only win by showing delivery. If he does that, the voters will reward him.

    SKS would only legitimise fuckface by clapping back at him. He should have deniable underlings shitting on Musk at every opportunity though. MI6 must have something on the c-nt. Musk is only rich; but SKS has the power of nation state at his disposal, if he is enough of a prick to deploy it.
    The government should have a rebuttal team laughing at him. “He wants the King to overthrow our election - the King hams got the power, what’s a wazzock!”

    Keep going until President Musk is tweeting that Starmer can FUCK YOURSELF IN THE FACE
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,125

    Dura_Ace said:


    Not getting involved with Elon Musk IMHO is sensible. He can’t win that war and can only win by showing delivery. If he does that, the voters will reward him.

    SKS would only legitimise fuckface by clapping back at him. He should have deniable underlings shitting on Musk at every opportunity though. MI6 must have something on the c-nt. Musk is only rich; but SKS has the power of nation state at his disposal, if he is enough of a prick to deploy it.
    Instead the underlings are queueing up to 'suck the cock of a creep'. Not a paticular fan of Jess Phillips but I hope she's had her personal security ramped up.

    https://x.com/IrvineWelsh/status/1875479743250018354

    If some madcap lunatic did send her (or Starmer) the way of Cox and David Amess wouldn't Truss and Badenoch have some explaining to do having fanned the flames of Musk's incendiary operation against the UK government and Starmer and Phillips in particular? Or if it gets any sort of political win at all, is stoking ignorant hatred worth the punt?

    Of course our very own Max last evening excused Musk's intervention as "holding Starmer to account"

    Oh and FREE THE YAXLEY-LENNON ONE!
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,774
    .

    Interesting piece of research in Politics Home:

    Who are Reform members?

    Research by the Party Members Project shows they're...

    Older, very unlikely to be in London, and likely to identify as "fairly" or "very" right-wing

    Strongly opposed to net zero by 2050 and Thatcherite on tax and spend

    Very online — more than members of all other parties

    https://bsky.app/profile/politicshome.bsky.social/post/3levtfqwpjs2z

    I thought Reform were former Labour voters and so would be more up for state spending? I thought this was followed up by their promising to nationalise water?
    The article linked to in the skeet discusses the mismatch between Reform members and Reform voters.
  • Dura_Ace said:


    Not getting involved with Elon Musk IMHO is sensible. He can’t win that war and can only win by showing delivery. If he does that, the voters will reward him.

    SKS would only legitimise fuckface by clapping back at him. He should have deniable underlings shitting on Musk at every opportunity though. MI6 must have something on the c-nt. Musk is only rich; but SKS has the power of nation state at his disposal, if he is enough of a prick to deploy it.
    Instead the underlings are queueing up to 'suck the cock of a creep'. Not a paticular fan of Jess Phillips but I hope she's had her personal security ramped up.

    https://x.com/IrvineWelsh/status/1875479743250018354

    I'm sorry, but that's a ridiculous point from Irvine Welsh.

    Whilst it's true that comments like Musk's are awful and create a risk for others like Phillips, you clearly don't reduce that risk by getting into a flame war with the troll. However much it sticks in the throat, you try to take some of the heat out of the situation.
    Saying nothing is an option, particularly as I'm not sure what the increasingly Ket-addled Musk has to do with Streeting's remit Health.
    I'm struggling to see what's wrong with what Streeting said. He said that what Musk said was "misjudged and misinformed" but declined to stoop to his level.

    I agree that saying nothing is an option, but the UK Government as a whole pretending the owner of a major social media platform (indeed the one Welsh was posting on) does not exist is not a serious option.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,230
    MattW said:

    Interesting piece of research in Politics Home:

    Who are Reform members?

    Research by the Party Members Project shows they're...

    Older, very unlikely to be in London, and likely to identify as "fairly" or "very" right-wing

    Strongly opposed to net zero by 2050 and Thatcherite on tax and spend

    Very online — more than members of all other parties

    https://bsky.app/profile/politicshome.bsky.social/post/3levtfqwpjs2z

    That "very online" looks to me like the primary recruitment route.

    I don't see Reform as Thatcherite on tax and spend - I'd see that as a false self-image.

    I've been excoriating about RefUK, as I have about the current Conservative leadership, and I hope I explain why.

    One view which I do wonder about, based on local experience, is that they seem to try and wind followers up about things that are not happening where those followers live. It seems to me to be much about fear of the other, where there is relatively little experience of that "other". I don't have any nationwide analysis on that, but that's the impression I get.
    Social media has promoted visceral hatred of things that are exaggerated and low import as a bigger electoral force than things like investment and management of public services. I just can't see how this can end well for us.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,623
    Barnesian said:

    Good morning

    This forum became very heated last night and I do wonder just where all of this is going

    The problem as I see it is Starmer is increasingly unpopular, as is his government, but the conservative party is moribund, the Lib Dems anonymous, and in this vacuum steps Farage, Reform, Musk and Trump

    Starmer is yet again to make another resetting speech on Monday, but I expect anything he says will be drowned out by the media who seem obsessed by Musk and Trump who aren't even in office yet

    It has been said they intend intervening in the trial of the Southport attacker, as they cannot be prevented in commentating on it

    This does raise profound implications and as much as I am opposed to Starmer and Labour, it makes one very uneasy as to where this is all going

    Some on here critise Kemi Badenoch, but the real danger to our politics is not from her but Farage and the far right

    It seems at his Leicester conference last night that when he rejected Robinson joining, he was heckled by some present

    Labour supporters are experiencing a similar period to the anti Johnson post partygate time, and frankly I do not see it getting any easier for them whilst Starmer and Reeves are in charge

    I agree that last night was very unpleasant here.

    Part of the problem is the sloganising.

    "Starmer is useless" with no supporting argument
    "Musk is a xxxx" with no added insights or predictions or context.
    It's just venting and is of zero value. You can get it on X all the time if that's what you want.

    The bigger problem, and it's putting me off the site, is the personal invective.
    "You are a moron" repeatedly with no humour, simply to shout a contributor down.

    I'm going to start flagging posts of this nature, and if you care about the site, I suggest you do the same.
    Quite apart from anything else, some posts on here are already getting pretty iffy legally, and will be even more so when the new regs come in. For instance, the genre "You are a Ruritanian [or whatever] moron", or those which appear to advocate violence against named people.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,275

    Interesting piece of research in Politics Home:

    Who are Reform members?

    Research by the Party Members Project shows they're...

    Older, very unlikely to be in London, and likely to identify as "fairly" or "very" right-wing

    Strongly opposed to net zero by 2050 and Thatcherite on tax and spend

    Very online — more than members of all other parties

    https://bsky.app/profile/politicshome.bsky.social/post/3levtfqwpjs2z

    "Thatcherite on tax and spend"

    Yet they need to win seats in North, Midlands and Wales off Labour - places where they will need a 'levelling up, nationalise utilities, deal with cost of living message' to have a chance.

    Reform's contradictions may unravel in the four years.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,023
    rkrkrk said:

    Starmer won't fight the next GE as PM for a second term, and I've bet on that.

    Where and what odds?
    11/10 with Hills atm
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,588

    Dura_Ace said:


    Not getting involved with Elon Musk IMHO is sensible. He can’t win that war and can only win by showing delivery. If he does that, the voters will reward him.

    SKS would only legitimise fuckface by clapping back at him. He should have deniable underlings shitting on Musk at every opportunity though. MI6 must have something on the c-nt. Musk is only rich; but SKS has the power of nation state at his disposal, if he is enough of a prick to deploy it.
    Instead the underlings are queueing up to 'suck the cock of a creep'. Not a paticular fan of Jess Phillips but I hope she's had her personal security ramped up.

    https://x.com/IrvineWelsh/status/1875479743250018354

    I'm sorry, but that's a ridiculous point from Irvine Welsh.

    Whilst it's true that comments like Musk's are awful and create a risk for others like Phillips, you clearly don't reduce that risk by getting into a flame war with the troll. However much it sticks in the throat, you try to take some of the heat out of the situation.
    Saying nothing is an option, particularly as I'm not sure what the increasingly Ket-addled Musk has to do with Streeting's remit Health.
    I'm struggling to see what's wrong with what Streeting said. He said that what Musk said was "misjudged and misinformed" but declined to stoop to his level.

    I agree that saying nothing is an option, but the UK Government as a whole pretending the owner of a major social media platform (indeed the one Welsh was posting on) does not exist is not a serious option.
    The adage about wrestling with pigs comes to mind.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 24,152
    It's a surreal week. Did anyone hear this live?

    Otto English ‪@ottoenglish.bsky.social‬
    Suella Braverman has just told #lbc listeners that not only has Italy built a wall on "its border with Turkey" but that she has been there "and seen it."
    https://bsky.app/profile/ottoenglish.bsky.social/post/3leqvwjpkvk2w

  • Interesting piece of research in Politics Home:

    Who are Reform members?

    Research by the Party Members Project shows they're...

    Older, very unlikely to be in London, and likely to identify as "fairly" or "very" right-wing

    Strongly opposed to net zero by 2050 and Thatcherite on tax and spend

    Very online — more than members of all other parties

    https://bsky.app/profile/politicshome.bsky.social/post/3levtfqwpjs2z

    "Thatcherite on tax and spend"

    Yet they need to win seats in North, Midlands and Wales off Labour - places where they will need a 'levelling up, nationalise utilities, deal with cost of living message' to have a chance.

    Reform's contradictions may unravel in the four years.
    Aren’t they dealing with exactly the contradictions Johnson dealt with? Might be enough for one cycle, however.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,275
    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    A tough front page for Starmer, without any need to invoke Musk.

    Hysterical nonsense.

    Is he as guilty as the actual rapists? Why?

    Utterly absurd.
    Talking of hysteria, have you seen PB this evening? You'd never guess Leon is back and on fire!
    It was a sewer last night. PB is getting as bad as Twitter at times.

    It's going to kill the site as a place for polite and respectful political debate.

    It's time to check out for a bit.
    Astute as always @Foxy. This site really has gone down a lot of levels since Labour won. It wasn’t at all like this after Johnson won in 2019 which is a shame as there are a lot of good people still here - but I note posting less - from both sides of the aisle.

    But “insert politician here is crap” and “Elon Musk is fabulous” and “Nigel for PM” makes this site less and less interesting. I can go to Twitter and get the same analysis.

    I still like to post here as I do value hearing from those who oppose me but I have to concede, it’s way less good than it was.
    PB has always had its ups and downs.
    Same goes for individual posters.

    I'd be very sad to see Foxy leave.
    Yep. The ebb and flow will continue. And at end of the day the mods know well what works for the site after all these years and eventually the ban hammer will fall again I suspect.

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,023
    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    A tough front page for Starmer, without any need to invoke Musk.

    Hysterical nonsense.

    Is he as guilty as the actual rapists? Why?

    Utterly absurd.
    Talking of hysteria, have you seen PB this evening? You'd never guess Leon is back and on fire!
    It was a sewer last night. PB is getting as bad as Twitter at times.

    It's going to kill the site as a place for polite and respectful political debate.

    It's time to check out for a bit.
    Astute as always @Foxy. This site really has gone down a lot of levels since Labour won. It wasn’t at all like this after Johnson won in 2019 which is a shame as there are a lot of good people still here - but I note posting less - from both sides of the aisle.

    But “insert politician here is crap” and “Elon Musk is fabulous” and “Nigel for PM” makes this site less and less interesting. I can go to Twitter and get the same analysis.

    I still like to post here as I do value hearing from those who oppose me but I have to concede, it’s way less good than it was.
    PB has always had its ups and downs.
    Same goes for individual posters.

    I'd be very sad to see Foxy leave.
    I'll be said to see Foxy leave too.

    He really pisses me off at times - in fact, almost daily, particularly with his trolling - but there's no doubt he adds valuable perspective to this site and has some unique and interesting views at times too.
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