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The changing face of the electorate – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,246
    kle4 said:

    So much principal in foreign affairs

    So they're at the haggling stage? Should be OK. Everyone in this business is transactional. Not just Mauritius.
  • Dura_Ace said:

    I never tip anybody as it reinforces the bourgeois social hierarchy and master/servant relationships.

    "It's a lot like life..."
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsvfofcIE1Q
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,147
    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    I believe we've reached Christmas without the annual tradition of the media forecasting a pigs-in-blankets shortage.

    I was having a conversation with our nursing staff over the bring and share Christmas buffet. One of our Somali nurses is having Halal Turkey and Turkey sausages wrapped in Turkey blankets.

    Does that show assimilation? or that she should be deported? I need the PB opinion.
    What is a turkey blanket?
    Turkey bacon used to wrap the sausage.
    Correct.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,137
    edited December 23
    The petition about a General Election, which now has 3 million signatures and will be debated in parliament in early Jan., merely says: "I would like there to be another General Election."

    LOL.

    There will be. It will be in fours years time.

  • rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    CatMan said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    This is imbecility, but imbecility that we have to take seriously.

    Trump says US owning Greenland ‘absolute necessity’
    https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/5053319-trump-greenland-purchase/

    Greenland might say Yes
    It’s not up to them. It’s up to people on random bulletin boards.
    Hah

    If Trump offered the UK American statehood, and we were allowed to swerve American gun law, avoid the American healthcare system, and find some compromise over the monarchy where we get to keep it but they don't have to adopt it, I would absolutely say Yes

    Probably I'm alone in PB. on that
    I will never get over the propensity of the rich to be patriotic to every country but their own. What was the point of Brexit if the first thing you do is to kneel to another country? First it was CANZUK, now it's USA.
    There's a sense in which CANZ and the USA are not really foreign but part of Greater Britain.
    Yes. And that sense was "we used to be close in the past but aren't any more". There is a difference between alliances and identities, and the British aren't American, Canadian, whatevs. May and Goodhart were correct about "citizens of nowhere", but since when was being right an advantage in politics?
    On the other hand, the growth of the internet means that we have never been closer. We share memes on social media and are part of the same political conversation. In addition the rise of China means that we will inevitably be pushed closer together geopolitically as well.
    The UK becoming part of the USA would guarantee 70 or so electoral college votes for the Democrats. Let's do it!
    Would have kept Trump out. I think I'd give up our sovereignty for that. Just as a temporary emergency measure you understand.
    No, Trump would still have won 312 to 296 for Harris even with 70 UK EC votes. It would have needed Canada or Australia/NZ too to defeat him
    Just for a bit of fun:

    USA including DC 538
    Puerto Rico 5
    Guam, Marianas, etc. 2
    Canadia 60
    England 92
    Scotland 9
    Wales 5
    Northern Ireland 3
    UK Dependencies & Territories 1
    Ireland 8
    Australia and territories 43
    New Zealand and territories 9

    Remember, this is just for a bit of fun!
    I think you have to divide Australia into its states and territories. And maybe NZ into North Island and South Island. And Canada into its parts. Way more Senators then.
    Compliance!

    Ontario 23 Electors
    Quebec 14
    New South Wales 14
    Victoria 11
    Queensland 9
    Northern Columbia & Yukon Terr. 8
    Alberta & Northwest Territories 7
    Western Australia & Northern Terr. 5
    South Australia 3
    Manitoba & Nunavut 2
    Saskatchewan 2
    Nova Scotia & Prince Edward Isl. 2
    New Brunswick 1
    Tasmania 1
    Newfoundland and Labrador 1

    NZ isn't federal, sadly, so leaving it 9 Electors for both islands.
    Surely Quebec would rejoin France in this scenario?
    Possibly! Much as Puerto Rico would in all likelihood rejoin Spain!

    Having said that, according to my reading, "54.5%" of people in Quebec are "conversant" in English...
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,914

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    CatMan said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    This is imbecility, but imbecility that we have to take seriously.

    Trump says US owning Greenland ‘absolute necessity’
    https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/5053319-trump-greenland-purchase/

    Greenland might say Yes
    It’s not up to them. It’s up to people on random bulletin boards.
    Hah

    If Trump offered the UK American statehood, and we were allowed to swerve American gun law, avoid the American healthcare system, and find some compromise over the monarchy where we get to keep it but they don't have to adopt it, I would absolutely say Yes

    Probably I'm alone in PB. on that
    I will never get over the propensity of the rich to be patriotic to every country but their own. What was the point of Brexit if the first thing you do is to kneel to another country? First it was CANZUK, now it's USA.
    There's a sense in which CANZ and the USA are not really foreign but part of Greater Britain.
    Yes. And that sense was "we used to be close in the past but aren't any more". There is a difference between alliances and identities, and the British aren't American, Canadian, whatevs. May and Goodhart were correct about "citizens of nowhere", but since when was being right an advantage in politics?
    On the other hand, the growth of the internet means that we have never been closer. We share memes on social media and are part of the same political conversation. In addition the rise of China means that we will inevitably be pushed closer together geopolitically as well.
    The UK becoming part of the USA would guarantee 70 or so electoral college votes for the Democrats. Let's do it!
    Would have kept Trump out. I think I'd give up our sovereignty for that. Just as a temporary emergency measure you understand.
    No, Trump would still have won 312 to 296 for Harris even with 70 UK EC votes. It would have needed Canada or Australia/NZ too to defeat him
    Just for a bit of fun:

    USA including DC 538
    Puerto Rico 5
    Guam, Marianas, etc. 2
    Canadia 60
    England 92
    Scotland 9
    Wales 5
    Northern Ireland 3
    UK Dependencies & Territories 1
    Ireland 8
    Australia and territories 43
    New Zealand and territories 9

    Remember, this is just for a bit of fun!
    ...and Greenland.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,034
    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    I believe we've reached Christmas without the annual tradition of the media forecasting a pigs-in-blankets shortage.

    I was having a conversation with our nursing staff over the bring and share Christmas buffet. One of our Somali nurses is having Halal Turkey and Turkey sausages wrapped in Turkey blankets.

    Does that show assimilation? or that she should be deported? I need the PB opinion.
    What is a turkey blanket?
    Turkey bacon used to wrap the sausage.
    I was only just getting my head around 'lamb bacon'. Between this and AI, I'm not sure I'm going to make it through 2025.
  • ohnotnow said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    I believe we've reached Christmas without the annual tradition of the media forecasting a pigs-in-blankets shortage.

    I was having a conversation with our nursing staff over the bring and share Christmas buffet. One of our Somali nurses is having Halal Turkey and Turkey sausages wrapped in Turkey blankets.

    Does that show assimilation? or that she should be deported? I need the PB opinion.
    What is a turkey blanket?
    Turkey bacon used to wrap the sausage.
    I was only just getting my head around 'lamb bacon'. Between this and AI, I'm not sure I'm going to make it through 2025.
    Is it vegan???
  • Foxy said:

    I believe we've reached Christmas without the annual tradition of the media forecasting a pigs-in-blankets shortage.

    I was having a conversation with our nursing staff over the bring and share Christmas buffet. One of our Somali nurses is having Halal Turkey and Turkey sausages wrapped in Turkey blankets.

    Does that show assimilation? or that she should be deported? I need the PB opinion.
    As long as its not vegan turkey and vegan sausages wrapped in vegan blankets.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,034

    Taz said:

    Christmas TV is shite but @ydoethur @viewcode @bondegezou dont forget War Games in colour is on BBC4 tonight and after it is a ghost story for Xmas from the truly magnificent Mark Gatiss.

    Why would War Games not be in colour? It was only released in 1983.

    How about a nice game of chess?
    ""The only winning move is not to play."
    Just to chime in with my perennial recommendation of "Colossus: The Forbin Project". Very of it's time, but very overlooked.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colossus:_The_Forbin_Project

  • HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    CatMan said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    This is imbecility, but imbecility that we have to take seriously.

    Trump says US owning Greenland ‘absolute necessity’
    https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/5053319-trump-greenland-purchase/

    Greenland might say Yes
    It’s not up to them. It’s up to people on random bulletin boards.
    Hah

    If Trump offered the UK American statehood, and we were allowed to swerve American gun law, avoid the American healthcare system, and find some compromise over the monarchy where we get to keep it but they don't have to adopt it, I would absolutely say Yes

    Probably I'm alone in PB. on that
    I will never get over the propensity of the rich to be patriotic to every country but their own. What was the point of Brexit if the first thing you do is to kneel to another country? First it was CANZUK, now it's USA.
    There's a sense in which CANZ and the USA are not really foreign but part of Greater Britain.
    Yes. And that sense was "we used to be close in the past but aren't any more". There is a difference between alliances and identities, and the British aren't American, Canadian, whatevs. May and Goodhart were correct about "citizens of nowhere", but since when was being right an advantage in politics?
    On the other hand, the growth of the internet means that we have never been closer. We share memes on social media and are part of the same political conversation. In addition the rise of China means that we will inevitably be pushed closer together geopolitically as well.
    The UK becoming part of the USA would guarantee 70 or so electoral college votes for the Democrats. Let's do it!
    Would have kept Trump out. I think I'd give up our sovereignty for that. Just as a temporary emergency measure you understand.
    No, Trump would still have won 312 to 296 for Harris even with 70 UK EC votes. It would have needed Canada or Australia/NZ too to defeat him
    Just for a bit of fun:

    USA including DC 538
    Puerto Rico 5
    Guam, Marianas, etc. 2
    Canadia 60
    England 92
    Scotland 9
    Wales 5
    Northern Ireland 3
    UK Dependencies & Territories 1
    Ireland 8
    Australia and territories 43
    New Zealand and territories 9

    Remember, this is just for a bit of fun!
    ...and Greenland.
    Not yet! Though the US did "administer" Greenland from 1941 to 1945.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,281
    .
    Dura_Ace said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    The leaders of @eurofighter and #NETMA (the @NATO Eurofighter and Tornado Management Agency) today signed the contract for up to 24 @ItalianAirForce Eurofighters in #Rome. The announcement comes at a strategically important time for the Eurofighter programme and follows the contract signing last Friday (20 December) for 25 Eurofighters for the Spanish Air Force. The new Italian Eurofighter Typhoon jets will replace Italian Tranche 1 versions that are currently in service.
    https://x.com/Leonardo_live/status/1871239691758104867

    The tranche 1 Eurofighters aren't *that* old - surely their airframes are serviceable, and their avionics could be upgraded to the latest version.

    There are still some Block 15 (early 80s) F-16s in use, albeit mostly for training purposes. And I believe Israel still flies some of the very earliest F-16s made.
    TR1 EFs would need a structural change in the forward fuselage to accommodate the newest computing hardware. They certainly would be obsolete by the time that was negotiated, contracted, designed, certified and implemented. Also... money.

    The new ones are finally going to get an AESA radar, aren't they ? Which makes them reasonably useful.

    OTOH, the F35 is now actually cheaper to build, and considerably more capable.

    But given Trump, Europe needs its own military aircraft production.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,034

    Foxy said:

    I believe we've reached Christmas without the annual tradition of the media forecasting a pigs-in-blankets shortage.

    I was having a conversation with our nursing staff over the bring and share Christmas buffet. One of our Somali nurses is having Halal Turkey and Turkey sausages wrapped in Turkey blankets.

    Does that show assimilation? or that she should be deported? I need the PB opinion.
    As long as its not vegan turkey and vegan sausages wrapped in vegan blankets.
    Or, god forfend, venison blankets.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,164
    DavidL said:

    Re: votes at 16. I teach too many 16 year olds to think giving them the vote is a good idea.

    You should try speaking to the rest of the electorate.
    All my experience of visiting schools as a councillor is that sixth form pupils are generally much more thoughtful and aware of both national and local political issues, and more motivated to get involved, than young adults in their 20s. Because as a pupil or student their full time activity is thinking and learning about stuff; it’s when jobs and housing and relationships intervene that they lose interest in politics.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,803
    edited December 23
    ohnotnow said:

    Taz said:

    Christmas TV is shite but @ydoethur @viewcode @bondegezou dont forget War Games in colour is on BBC4 tonight and after it is a ghost story for Xmas from the truly magnificent Mark Gatiss.

    Why would War Games not be in colour? It was only released in 1983.

    How about a nice game of chess?
    ""The only winning move is not to play."
    Just to chime in with my perennial recommendation of "Colossus: The Forbin Project". Very of it's time, but very overlooked.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colossus:_The_Forbin_Project

    20 Forgotten 1970s Sci-Fi Movies That Deserves a Comeback!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAoMmZFm5x8

    Recommend:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase_IV_(1974_film)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    FF43 said:

    kle4 said:

    So much principal in foreign affairs

    So they're at the haggling stage? Should be OK. Everyone in this business is transactional. Not just Mauritius.
    Undoubtedly, though apparently we're desperate to get it done before Trump takes over, which presumably undercuts our haggling position.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,034

    ohnotnow said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    I believe we've reached Christmas without the annual tradition of the media forecasting a pigs-in-blankets shortage.

    I was having a conversation with our nursing staff over the bring and share Christmas buffet. One of our Somali nurses is having Halal Turkey and Turkey sausages wrapped in Turkey blankets.

    Does that show assimilation? or that she should be deported? I need the PB opinion.
    What is a turkey blanket?
    Turkey bacon used to wrap the sausage.
    I was only just getting my head around 'lamb bacon'. Between this and AI, I'm not sure I'm going to make it through 2025.
    Is it vegan???
    I imagine somewhere in vegan 'plant-based' marketing world, there is someone off their t**s on cocaine drawing logo's for "Laaaaaam-bi not-bacon" made of salted, nitrite-packed ultra-processed lentils. Which are probably fine as long as your primary goal is making money for food conglomerates rather than animal welfare.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    IanB2 said:

    DavidL said:

    Re: votes at 16. I teach too many 16 year olds to think giving them the vote is a good idea.

    You should try speaking to the rest of the electorate.
    All my experience of visiting schools as a councillor is that sixth form pupils are generally much more thoughtful and aware of both national and local political issues, and more motivated to get involved, than young adults in their 20s. Because as a pupil or student their full time activity is thinking and learning about stuff; it’s when jobs and housing and relationships intervene that they lose interest in politics.
    Whilst I don't think complete consistency is possible, I'd be more comfortable with votes at 16 if we were generally moving towards treating them more as adults at that age, but despite a few obvious discrepencies I think societal attitudes, other than re voting, is to treat them as children. Which they mostly hate of course.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,871
    Dura_Ace said:

    I never tip anybody as it reinforces the bourgeois social hierarchy and master/servant relationships.

    I will lend our postman a copy of Marx's Der Bürgerkrieg in Frankreich if he wants thought.

    Happily we are past the days of loo paper shortages, so the gesture would seem unnecessary.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,281
    edited December 23
    The GOP efforts to bury this report make their six year pursuit of private citizen Hunter Biden utterly hypocritical.

    Ethics releases Matt Gaetz report
    https://thehill.com/homenews/house/5054176-house-ethics-committee-gaetz-report/

    Gaetz report renews debate about how he escaped federal charges
    https://www.politico.com/news/2024/12/23/matt-gaetz-ethics-report-doj-criminal-charges-00195955
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,424
    viewcode said:

    They're playing one of the Master's themes when the War Chief's on screen. Oh the joy of fanon... :)

    Well that was surprisingly good. Regeneration sound when the War Chief died, downstream versions of the Doctor when he was given a choice, Season 6B not contradicted, the Troughton/Pertwee regeneration shown (which buggers up the Fugitive Doctor, but there y'go), colorisation worked well, all in all pretty good. Thoroughly enjoyed.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,962
    "Lucy Burton
    The long, boozy lunch is no more – we’re turning into America
    Conversation is the lifeblood of the City but regulation threatens to cut off its supply"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/12/23/the-long-boozy-lunch-is-no-more-were-turning-into-america/
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    edited December 23
    Nigelb said:

    The GOP efforts to bury this report make their six year pursuit of private citizen Hunter Biden utterly hypocritical.

    Ethics releases Matt Gaetz report
    https://thehill.com/homenews/house/5054176-house-ethics-committee-gaetz-report/

    A lot of this was pretty much known already, albeit through leaks, such that it almost lends credence to the idea Trump nominated him initially knowing he'd have to drop out, and replacements would look better, since surely even Trump had to know a scumbag like Gaetz wasn't going to get confirmed? Not that he would care about the accusations, which in fairness are not proven in a court of law, but even at the height of Trump's power only he could get away with things, not useless hangers on like Gaetz.

    "gifts in excess of permissible amounts" is a bit of a laugh though, given what others get away with. You have to be bribed with literal gold bars to get convicted, and I'd bet even then Menendez has a good shot at getting his conviction overturned.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,914

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    CatMan said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    This is imbecility, but imbecility that we have to take seriously.

    Trump says US owning Greenland ‘absolute necessity’
    https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/5053319-trump-greenland-purchase/

    Greenland might say Yes
    It’s not up to them. It’s up to people on random bulletin boards.
    Hah

    If Trump offered the UK American statehood, and we were allowed to swerve American gun law, avoid the American healthcare system, and find some compromise over the monarchy where we get to keep it but they don't have to adopt it, I would absolutely say Yes

    Probably I'm alone in PB. on that
    I will never get over the propensity of the rich to be patriotic to every country but their own. What was the point of Brexit if the first thing you do is to kneel to another country? First it was CANZUK, now it's USA.
    There's a sense in which CANZ and the USA are not really foreign but part of Greater Britain.
    Yes. And that sense was "we used to be close in the past but aren't any more". There is a difference between alliances and identities, and the British aren't American, Canadian, whatevs. May and Goodhart were correct about "citizens of nowhere", but since when was being right an advantage in politics?
    On the other hand, the growth of the internet means that we have never been closer. We share memes on social media and are part of the same political conversation. In addition the rise of China means that we will inevitably be pushed closer together geopolitically as well.
    The UK becoming part of the USA would guarantee 70 or so electoral college votes for the Democrats. Let's do it!
    Would have kept Trump out. I think I'd give up our sovereignty for that. Just as a temporary emergency measure you understand.
    No, Trump would still have won 312 to 296 for Harris even with 70 UK EC votes. It would have needed Canada or Australia/NZ too to defeat him
    Just for a bit of fun:

    USA including DC 538
    Puerto Rico 5
    Guam, Marianas, etc. 2
    Canadia 60
    England 92
    Scotland 9
    Wales 5
    Northern Ireland 3
    UK Dependencies & Territories 1
    Ireland 8
    Australia and territories 43
    New Zealand and territories 9

    Remember, this is just for a bit of fun!
    ...and Greenland.
    Not yet! Though the US did "administer" Greenland from 1941 to 1945.
    Trump plans on a compulsory purchase from Denmark.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,694
    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    They're playing one of the Master's themes when the War Chief's on screen. Oh the joy of fanon... :)

    Well that was surprisingly good. Regeneration sound when the War Chief died, downstream versions of the Doctor when he was given a choice, Season 6B not contradicted, the Troughton/Pertwee regeneration shown (which buggers up the Fugitive Doctor, but there y'go), colorisation worked well, all in all pretty good. Thoroughly enjoyed.
    I’ll be honest I watched the original many years ago in B and W and it felt obviously padded, as if 6 episodes might have been right. Watching this it felt very rushed in places, certainly the first half. Might have been better just a bit longer. But the colourisation is great and the use of future images was fun too. Is the War Chief the master an accepted piece of canon now?
  • Nigelb said:

    The GOP efforts to bury this report make their six year pursuit of private citizen Hunter Biden utterly hypocritical.

    Ethics releases Matt Gaetz report
    https://thehill.com/homenews/house/5054176-house-ethics-committee-gaetz-report/

    Gaetz report renews debate about how he escaped federal charges
    https://www.politico.com/news/2024/12/23/matt-gaetz-ethics-report-doj-criminal-charges-00195955

    Gaetz is a horrible person but he's not a multiple felon with excessive influence over the President.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,034

    ohnotnow said:

    Taz said:

    Christmas TV is shite but @ydoethur @viewcode @bondegezou dont forget War Games in colour is on BBC4 tonight and after it is a ghost story for Xmas from the truly magnificent Mark Gatiss.

    Why would War Games not be in colour? It was only released in 1983.

    How about a nice game of chess?
    ""The only winning move is not to play."
    Just to chime in with my perennial recommendation of "Colossus: The Forbin Project". Very of it's time, but very overlooked.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colossus:_The_Forbin_Project

    20 Forgotten 1970s Sci-Fi Movies That Deserves a Comeback!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAoMmZFm5x8

    Recommend:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase_IV_(1974_film)
    Glad(?) to see "A boy and his dog" in there. I'd put it up with 1993's "Falling Down" as one of those "oh, so this is how we ended up in a 4chan incel hellscape?" films.

    For a related UK rarity en vogue - "A.D.A.M" is worth a shot (part of a quite 'of it's time' but fascinating anthology series) :

    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0191759/

    "Roger Empson builds a house for his disabled wife Jean that is completely automated and monitored by a computer called A.D.A.M. "
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,164

    Foxy said:

    I believe we've reached Christmas without the annual tradition of the media forecasting a pigs-in-blankets shortage.

    I was having a conversation with our nursing staff over the bring and share Christmas buffet. One of our Somali nurses is having Halal Turkey and Turkey sausages wrapped in Turkey blankets.

    Does that show assimilation? or that she should be deported? I need the PB opinion.
    As long as its not vegan turkey and vegan sausages wrapped in vegan blankets.
    As long as it’s not American turkey, which only comes in plastic-wrapped squares…
  • ohnotnow said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Taz said:

    Christmas TV is shite but @ydoethur @viewcode @bondegezou dont forget War Games in colour is on BBC4 tonight and after it is a ghost story for Xmas from the truly magnificent Mark Gatiss.

    Why would War Games not be in colour? It was only released in 1983.

    How about a nice game of chess?
    ""The only winning move is not to play."
    Just to chime in with my perennial recommendation of "Colossus: The Forbin Project". Very of it's time, but very overlooked.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colossus:_The_Forbin_Project

    20 Forgotten 1970s Sci-Fi Movies That Deserves a Comeback!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAoMmZFm5x8

    Recommend:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase_IV_(1974_film)
    Glad(?) to see "A boy and his dog" in there. I'd put it up with 1993's "Falling Down" as one of those "oh, so this is how we ended up in a 4chan incel hellscape?" films.

    For a related UK rarity en vogue - "A.D.A.M" is worth a shot (part of a quite 'of it's time' but fascinating anthology series) :

    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0191759/

    "Roger Empson builds a house for his disabled wife Jean that is completely automated and monitored by a computer called A.D.A.M. "
    Sadly George Lucas's THX 1138 isn't on that list.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/THX_1138
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,871
    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    I believe we've reached Christmas without the annual tradition of the media forecasting a pigs-in-blankets shortage.

    I was having a conversation with our nursing staff over the bring and share Christmas buffet. One of our Somali nurses is having Halal Turkey and Turkey sausages wrapped in Turkey blankets.

    Does that show assimilation? or that she should be deported? I need the PB opinion.
    As long as its not vegan turkey and vegan sausages wrapped in vegan blankets.
    As long as it’s not American turkey, which only comes in plastic-wrapped squares…
    It doesn't sound very nice, but I suppose needs must.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,164

    Dura_Ace said:

    I never tip anybody as it reinforces the bourgeois social hierarchy and master/servant relationships.

    I will lend our postman a copy of Marx's Der Bürgerkrieg in Frankreich if he wants thought.

    Happily we are past the days of loo paper shortages, so the gesture would seem unnecessary.
    I haven’t bought any toilet paper since the pandemic
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,778
    Nigelb said:

    .

    Dura_Ace said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    The leaders of @eurofighter and #NETMA (the @NATO Eurofighter and Tornado Management Agency) today signed the contract for up to 24 @ItalianAirForce Eurofighters in #Rome. The announcement comes at a strategically important time for the Eurofighter programme and follows the contract signing last Friday (20 December) for 25 Eurofighters for the Spanish Air Force. The new Italian Eurofighter Typhoon jets will replace Italian Tranche 1 versions that are currently in service.
    https://x.com/Leonardo_live/status/1871239691758104867

    The tranche 1 Eurofighters aren't *that* old - surely their airframes are serviceable, and their avionics could be upgraded to the latest version.

    There are still some Block 15 (early 80s) F-16s in use, albeit mostly for training purposes. And I believe Israel still flies some of the very earliest F-16s made.
    TR1 EFs would need a structural change in the forward fuselage to accommodate the newest computing hardware. They certainly would be obsolete by the time that was negotiated, contracted, designed, certified and implemented. Also... money.

    The new ones are finally going to get an AESA radar, aren't they ? Which makes them reasonably useful.

    40 a/c only by 2030. We are back to the 'fleets-within-fleets' situation that everybody swore blind would never happen again after the Tornado GR1/4 fiasco which saw 230 a/c procured but only 12 in a mission capable config by the end of its life.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,034

    ohnotnow said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Taz said:

    Christmas TV is shite but @ydoethur @viewcode @bondegezou dont forget War Games in colour is on BBC4 tonight and after it is a ghost story for Xmas from the truly magnificent Mark Gatiss.

    Why would War Games not be in colour? It was only released in 1983.

    How about a nice game of chess?
    ""The only winning move is not to play."
    Just to chime in with my perennial recommendation of "Colossus: The Forbin Project". Very of it's time, but very overlooked.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colossus:_The_Forbin_Project

    20 Forgotten 1970s Sci-Fi Movies That Deserves a Comeback!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAoMmZFm5x8

    Recommend:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase_IV_(1974_film)
    Glad(?) to see "A boy and his dog" in there. I'd put it up with 1993's "Falling Down" as one of those "oh, so this is how we ended up in a 4chan incel hellscape?" films.

    For a related UK rarity en vogue - "A.D.A.M" is worth a shot (part of a quite 'of it's time' but fascinating anthology series) :

    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0191759/

    "Roger Empson builds a house for his disabled wife Jean that is completely automated and monitored by a computer called A.D.A.M. "
    Sadly George Lucas's THX 1138 isn't on that list.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/THX_1138
    A very good film. It's often come to mind of late - the "personal Jesus" part in particular reminds me of some LLM offerings.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,034
    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    I believe we've reached Christmas without the annual tradition of the media forecasting a pigs-in-blankets shortage.

    I was having a conversation with our nursing staff over the bring and share Christmas buffet. One of our Somali nurses is having Halal Turkey and Turkey sausages wrapped in Turkey blankets.

    Does that show assimilation? or that she should be deported? I need the PB opinion.
    As long as its not vegan turkey and vegan sausages wrapped in vegan blankets.
    As long as it’s not American turkey, which only comes in plastic-wrapped squares…
    If you are dissing square sausage, I'm afraid we shall have to duel at dawn.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591

    ohnotnow said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Taz said:

    Christmas TV is shite but @ydoethur @viewcode @bondegezou dont forget War Games in colour is on BBC4 tonight and after it is a ghost story for Xmas from the truly magnificent Mark Gatiss.

    Why would War Games not be in colour? It was only released in 1983.

    How about a nice game of chess?
    ""The only winning move is not to play."
    Just to chime in with my perennial recommendation of "Colossus: The Forbin Project". Very of it's time, but very overlooked.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colossus:_The_Forbin_Project

    20 Forgotten 1970s Sci-Fi Movies That Deserves a Comeback!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAoMmZFm5x8

    Recommend:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase_IV_(1974_film)
    Glad(?) to see "A boy and his dog" in there. I'd put it up with 1993's "Falling Down" as one of those "oh, so this is how we ended up in a 4chan incel hellscape?" films.

    For a related UK rarity en vogue - "A.D.A.M" is worth a shot (part of a quite 'of it's time' but fascinating anthology series) :

    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0191759/

    "Roger Empson builds a house for his disabled wife Jean that is completely automated and monitored by a computer called A.D.A.M. "
    Sadly George Lucas's THX 1138 isn't on that list.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/THX_1138
    The title does not help, a retitled re-release might get more attention.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,962
    Interesting blog detailing the locations of phone boxes around the country.

    https://www.thek6project.co.uk/where-are-all-the-boxes/
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,509
    ohnotnow said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    I believe we've reached Christmas without the annual tradition of the media forecasting a pigs-in-blankets shortage.

    I was having a conversation with our nursing staff over the bring and share Christmas buffet. One of our Somali nurses is having Halal Turkey and Turkey sausages wrapped in Turkey blankets.

    Does that show assimilation? or that she should be deported? I need the PB opinion.
    What is a turkey blanket?
    Turkey bacon used to wrap the sausage.
    I was only just getting my head around 'lamb bacon'. Between this and AI, I'm not sure I'm going to make it through 2025.
    people making these abominations should be shot, worse than vegan venison
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,281
    edited December 23

    Nigelb said:

    The GOP efforts to bury this report make their six year pursuit of private citizen Hunter Biden utterly hypocritical.

    Ethics releases Matt Gaetz report
    https://thehill.com/homenews/house/5054176-house-ethics-committee-gaetz-report/

    Gaetz report renews debate about how he escaped federal charges
    https://www.politico.com/news/2024/12/23/matt-gaetz-ethics-report-doj-criminal-charges-00195955

    Gaetz is a horrible person but he's not a multiple felon with excessive influence over the President.
    He might well have been a multiple felon had he ever been charged, and he undeniably had sufficient political influence to be first choice as Trump's Attorney General.

    And there's zero evidence - despite the Republicans in Congress spending six years, and tens of millions of dollars investigating him - that Biden Jnr had any substantive political influence at all.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,034
    kle4 said:

    ohnotnow said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Taz said:

    Christmas TV is shite but @ydoethur @viewcode @bondegezou dont forget War Games in colour is on BBC4 tonight and after it is a ghost story for Xmas from the truly magnificent Mark Gatiss.

    Why would War Games not be in colour? It was only released in 1983.

    How about a nice game of chess?
    ""The only winning move is not to play."
    Just to chime in with my perennial recommendation of "Colossus: The Forbin Project". Very of it's time, but very overlooked.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colossus:_The_Forbin_Project

    20 Forgotten 1970s Sci-Fi Movies That Deserves a Comeback!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAoMmZFm5x8

    Recommend:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase_IV_(1974_film)
    Glad(?) to see "A boy and his dog" in there. I'd put it up with 1993's "Falling Down" as one of those "oh, so this is how we ended up in a 4chan incel hellscape?" films.

    For a related UK rarity en vogue - "A.D.A.M" is worth a shot (part of a quite 'of it's time' but fascinating anthology series) :

    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0191759/

    "Roger Empson builds a house for his disabled wife Jean that is completely automated and monitored by a computer called A.D.A.M. "
    Sadly George Lucas's THX 1138 isn't on that list.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/THX_1138
    The title does not help, a retitled re-release might get more attention.
    I offer, as a marketing genius, "Waiting for stuff in a big white room".

    Beckett would have been proud.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,509

    Nigelb said:

    The GOP efforts to bury this report make their six year pursuit of private citizen Hunter Biden utterly hypocritical.

    Ethics releases Matt Gaetz report
    https://thehill.com/homenews/house/5054176-house-ethics-committee-gaetz-report/

    Gaetz report renews debate about how he escaped federal charges
    https://www.politico.com/news/2024/12/23/matt-gaetz-ethics-report-doj-criminal-charges-00195955

    Gaetz is a horrible person but he's not a multiple felon with excessive influence over the President.
    it does show their calibre though, lower than rattlesnake's belly in a rut
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,914

    Starmer spending Christmas abroad seems to fit the narrative he would rather be abroad than in the UK

    Mind you, when one of his former councillors pen's a letter like this you do have to wonder just how much unhappiness there is in Labour’s ranks at present

    https://www.instagram.com/p/DD4fLSKt7iT/?igsh=MTQ3ajI4eWVudDN0cQ==

    Maybe the Indian Subcontinent. He likes a beer and a curry.
  • Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    The GOP efforts to bury this report make their six year pursuit of private citizen Hunter Biden utterly hypocritical.

    Ethics releases Matt Gaetz report
    https://thehill.com/homenews/house/5054176-house-ethics-committee-gaetz-report/

    Gaetz report renews debate about how he escaped federal charges
    https://www.politico.com/news/2024/12/23/matt-gaetz-ethics-report-doj-criminal-charges-00195955

    Gaetz is a horrible person but he's not a multiple felon with excessive influence over the President.
    He might well have been a multiple felon had he ever been charged, and he undeniably had sufficient political influence to be first choice as Trump's Attorney General.

    And there's zero evidence - despite the Republicans in Congress spending six years, and tens of millions of dollars investigating him - that Biden Jnr had any substantive political influence at all.
    If Gaetz had been charged.

    Remind us who has been in power for the last four years.

    Boy Biden had enough influence to get a presidential pardon stretched over a suspiciously large period in addition to the things he had been convicted of. Who knows what other influence he has had and how much influence he would have had if Senile Joe had managed to keep his decline hidden for a few more months.

    Hunter Biden is scum
    Matt Gaetz is scum
    Joe Biden wasn't fit to be president
    Donald Trump isn't fit to be president

    I don't know why people cannot accept all four statements as fact but instead pretend that only the ones of the 'other side' matter.
  • Starmer spending Christmas abroad seems to fit the narrative he would rather be abroad than in the UK

    Mind you, when one of his former councillors pen's a letter like this you do have to wonder just how much unhappiness there is in Labour’s ranks at present

    https://www.instagram.com/p/DD4fLSKt7iT/?igsh=MTQ3ajI4eWVudDN0cQ==

    Maybe the Indian Subcontinent. He likes a beer and a curry.
    May I take this opportunity of wishing you and yours a Happy Christmas and New Year

    There is more to life than politics
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    edited December 23

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    The GOP efforts to bury this report make their six year pursuit of private citizen Hunter Biden utterly hypocritical.

    Ethics releases Matt Gaetz report
    https://thehill.com/homenews/house/5054176-house-ethics-committee-gaetz-report/

    Gaetz report renews debate about how he escaped federal charges
    https://www.politico.com/news/2024/12/23/matt-gaetz-ethics-report-doj-criminal-charges-00195955

    Gaetz is a horrible person but he's not a multiple felon with excessive influence over the President.
    He might well have been a multiple felon had he ever been charged, and he undeniably had sufficient political influence to be first choice as Trump's Attorney General.

    And there's zero evidence - despite the Republicans in Congress spending six years, and tens of millions of dollars investigating him - that Biden Jnr had any substantive political influence at all.
    If Gaetz had been charged.

    Remind us who has been in power for the last four years.

    Boy Biden had enough influence to get a presidential pardon stretched over a suspiciously large period in addition to the things he had been convicted of. Who knows what other influence he has had and how much influence he would have had if Senile Joe had managed to keep his decline hidden for a few more months.

    Hunter Biden is scum
    Matt Gaetz is scum
    Joe Biden wasn't fit to be president
    Donald Trump isn't fit to be president

    I don't know why people cannot accept all four statements as fact but instead pretend that only the ones of the 'other side' matter.
    They might all be true, without being equal. Joe Biden I'm unsure if he was doing mostly alright until the last 1.5 years or not.

    Hunter Biden, though, is a piece of sh*t. Though that is different from how many crimes he may or may not have committed, which they spent a lot on.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,281
    edited December 23

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    The GOP efforts to bury this report make their six year pursuit of private citizen Hunter Biden utterly hypocritical.

    Ethics releases Matt Gaetz report
    https://thehill.com/homenews/house/5054176-house-ethics-committee-gaetz-report/

    Gaetz report renews debate about how he escaped federal charges
    https://www.politico.com/news/2024/12/23/matt-gaetz-ethics-report-doj-criminal-charges-00195955

    Gaetz is a horrible person but he's not a multiple felon with excessive influence over the President.
    He might well have been a multiple felon had he ever been charged, and he undeniably had sufficient political influence to be first choice as Trump's Attorney General.

    And there's zero evidence - despite the Republicans in Congress spending six years, and tens of millions of dollars investigating him - that Biden Jnr had any substantive political influence at all.
    If Gaetz had been charged.

    Remind us who has been in power for the last four years.


    Boy Biden had enough influence to get a presidential pardon stretched over a suspiciously large period in addition to the things he had been convicted of. Who knows what other influence he has had and how much influence he would have had if Senile Joe had managed to keep his decline hidden for a few more months.

    Hunter Biden is scum
    Matt Gaetz is scum
    Joe Biden wasn't fit to be president
    Donald Trump isn't fit to be president

    I don't know why people cannot accept all four statements as fact but instead pretend that only the ones of the 'other side' matter.
    Hunter Biden is not a politician,
    Matt Gaetz is - and was in line to be the country's chief law officer.

    That you can't see the difference between the two things speaks volumes.

    Biden's AG was even handed to the point of massively frustrating his own party.

    Meanwhile, Congressional Republicans spent tens of millions investigating a private citizen - who had already pled guilty to two felonies - and years covering up the misfeasance of one of their own.

  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,870
    edited December 23
    FT sticking the boot in:



    "Fuck business" indeed.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,045
    carnforth said:

    FT sticking the boot in:



    "Fuck business" indeed.

    They are feeling about the same as they were at the start of a once-in-a-century global pandemic.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    Majority of WASPI women have defected to Reform UK, a poll of 11,000 suggests.
    https://x.com/Inevitablewest/status/1871188682927112694
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,281
    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    The GOP efforts to bury this report make their six year pursuit of private citizen Hunter Biden utterly hypocritical.

    Ethics releases Matt Gaetz report
    https://thehill.com/homenews/house/5054176-house-ethics-committee-gaetz-report/

    Gaetz report renews debate about how he escaped federal charges
    https://www.politico.com/news/2024/12/23/matt-gaetz-ethics-report-doj-criminal-charges-00195955

    Gaetz is a horrible person but he's not a multiple felon with excessive influence over the President.
    He might well have been a multiple felon had he ever been charged, and he undeniably had sufficient political influence to be first choice as Trump's Attorney General.

    And there's zero evidence - despite the Republicans in Congress spending six years, and tens of millions of dollars investigating him - that Biden Jnr had any substantive political influence at all.
    If Gaetz had been charged.

    Remind us who has been in power for the last four years.

    Boy Biden had enough influence to get a presidential pardon stretched over a suspiciously large period in addition to the things he had been convicted of. Who knows what other influence he has had and how much influence he would have had if Senile Joe had managed to keep his decline hidden for a few more months.

    Hunter Biden is scum
    Matt Gaetz is scum
    Joe Biden wasn't fit to be president
    Donald Trump isn't fit to be president

    I don't know why people cannot accept all four statements as fact but instead pretend that only the ones of the 'other side' matter.
    They might all be true, without being equal. Joe Biden I'm unsure if he was doing mostly alright until the last 1.5 years or not.

    Hunter Biden, though, is a piece of sh*t. Though that is different from how many crimes he may or may not have committed, which they spent a lot on.
    So what ?
    He has zero involvement in politics.

    The point isn't whether he's a decent human being - he very likely isn't.
    It's that he's utterly irrelevant to the political process, and has been pursued in a way that an ordinary felon simply would not have been.

  • kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    The GOP efforts to bury this report make their six year pursuit of private citizen Hunter Biden utterly hypocritical.

    Ethics releases Matt Gaetz report
    https://thehill.com/homenews/house/5054176-house-ethics-committee-gaetz-report/

    Gaetz report renews debate about how he escaped federal charges
    https://www.politico.com/news/2024/12/23/matt-gaetz-ethics-report-doj-criminal-charges-00195955

    Gaetz is a horrible person but he's not a multiple felon with excessive influence over the President.
    He might well have been a multiple felon had he ever been charged, and he undeniably had sufficient political influence to be first choice as Trump's Attorney General.

    And there's zero evidence - despite the Republicans in Congress spending six years, and tens of millions of dollars investigating him - that Biden Jnr had any substantive political influence at all.
    If Gaetz had been charged.

    Remind us who has been in power for the last four years.

    Boy Biden had enough influence to get a presidential pardon stretched over a suspiciously large period in addition to the things he had been convicted of. Who knows what other influence he has had and how much influence he would have had if Senile Joe had managed to keep his decline hidden for a few more months.

    Hunter Biden is scum
    Matt Gaetz is scum
    Joe Biden wasn't fit to be president
    Donald Trump isn't fit to be president

    I don't know why people cannot accept all four statements as fact but instead pretend that only the ones of the 'other side' matter.
    They might all be true, without being equal. Joe Biden I'm unsure if he was doing mostly alright until the last 1.5 years or not.

    Hunter Biden, though, is a piece of sh*t. Though that is different from how many crimes he may or may not have committed, which they spent a lot on.
    I'm sure Joe has lucid periods among the senile ones.

    What the proportions were and how the pattern changed over the four years we don't know.

    But we do know that Biden's administration and various Dem leaders went along with it, lied about it and even claimed he was good for another four years.

    The Biden administration really needs to be investigated for this with the likes of Blinkin and Garland being publicly disgraced.

    And its Dem voters who should be the angriest - because of this they've now got another four years of Demented Don.
  • HYUFD said:

    Majority of WASPI women have defected to Reform UK, a poll of 11,000 suggests.
    https://x.com/Inevitablewest/status/1871188682927112694

    Link to polling company please
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,281

    HYUFD said:

    Majority of WASPI women have defected to Reform UK, a poll of 11,000 suggests.
    https://x.com/Inevitablewest/status/1871188682927112694

    Link to polling company please
    Sounds made up.
  • Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Majority of WASPI women have defected to Reform UK, a poll of 11,000 suggests.
    https://x.com/Inevitablewest/status/1871188682927112694

    Link to polling company please
    Sounds made up.
    It needs a link to the polling company
  • Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    The GOP efforts to bury this report make their six year pursuit of private citizen Hunter Biden utterly hypocritical.

    Ethics releases Matt Gaetz report
    https://thehill.com/homenews/house/5054176-house-ethics-committee-gaetz-report/

    Gaetz report renews debate about how he escaped federal charges
    https://www.politico.com/news/2024/12/23/matt-gaetz-ethics-report-doj-criminal-charges-00195955

    Gaetz is a horrible person but he's not a multiple felon with excessive influence over the President.
    He might well have been a multiple felon had he ever been charged, and he undeniably had sufficient political influence to be first choice as Trump's Attorney General.

    And there's zero evidence - despite the Republicans in Congress spending six years, and tens of millions of dollars investigating him - that Biden Jnr had any substantive political influence at all.
    If Gaetz had been charged.

    Remind us who has been in power for the last four years.


    Boy Biden had enough influence to get a presidential pardon stretched over a suspiciously large period in addition to the things he had been convicted of. Who knows what other influence he has had and how much influence he would have had if Senile Joe had managed to keep his decline hidden for a few more months.

    Hunter Biden is scum
    Matt Gaetz is scum
    Joe Biden wasn't fit to be president
    Donald Trump isn't fit to be president

    I don't know why people cannot accept all four statements as fact but instead pretend that only the ones of the 'other side' matter.
    Hunter Biden is not a politician,
    Matt Gaetz is - and was in line to be the country's chief law officer.

    That you can't see the difference between the two things speaks volumes.

    Biden's AG was even handed to the point of massively frustrating his own party.

    Meanwhile, Congressional Republicans spent tens of millions investigating a private citizen - who had already pled guilty to two felonies - and years covering up the misfeasance of one of their own.

    HE HAD ENOUGH INFLUENCE TO GET A PRESIDENTIAL PARDON STRETCHED OVER ELEVEN YEARS

    Do you not see that by the act of giving such a time specific pardon that all the investigations into Hunter Biden have now been justified ?

    And please stop this pathetic 'my side good, their side bad' line.

    One of the reasons why American politics is in such a shocking state is the manichaean refusal to criticise people on their own side.

    And as Gaetz, Trump and the GOP as a whole are deserving of criticism so are Hunter, Joe and the Dems as a whole.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,137
    RobD said:

    carnforth said:

    FT sticking the boot in:



    "Fuck business" indeed.

    They are feeling about the same as they were at the start of a once-in-a-century global pandemic.
    Which shows there's been a ridiculous over reaction.

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,147

    RobD said:

    carnforth said:

    FT sticking the boot in:



    "Fuck business" indeed.

    They are feeling about the same as they were at the start of a once-in-a-century global pandemic.
    Which shows there's been a ridiculous over reaction.

    Almost certainly so, and the corollary is that there will be a steep recovery in the Spring.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,147
    HYUFD said:

    Majority of WASPI women have defected to Reform UK, a poll of 11,000 suggests.
    https://x.com/Inevitablewest/status/1871188682927112694

    Are Reform planning to bunk the Waspi women 10 billion pounds? If so more fool them.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,147
    RobD said:

    carnforth said:

    FT sticking the boot in:



    "Fuck business" indeed.

    They are feeling about the same as they were at the start of a once-in-a-century global pandemic.
    Or after the Tory October 2022 budget.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,281
    edited December 24

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    The GOP efforts to bury this report make their six year pursuit of private citizen Hunter Biden utterly hypocritical.

    Ethics releases Matt Gaetz report
    https://thehill.com/homenews/house/5054176-house-ethics-committee-gaetz-report/

    Gaetz report renews debate about how he escaped federal charges
    https://www.politico.com/news/2024/12/23/matt-gaetz-ethics-report-doj-criminal-charges-00195955

    Gaetz is a horrible person but he's not a multiple felon with excessive influence over the President.
    He might well have been a multiple felon had he ever been charged, and he undeniably had sufficient political influence to be first choice as Trump's Attorney General.

    And there's zero evidence - despite the Republicans in Congress spending six years, and tens of millions of dollars investigating him - that Biden Jnr had any substantive political influence at all.
    If Gaetz had been charged.

    Remind us who has been in power for the last four years.


    Boy Biden had enough influence to get a presidential pardon stretched over a suspiciously large period in addition to the things he had been convicted of. Who knows what other influence he has had and how much influence he would have had if Senile Joe had managed to keep his decline hidden for a few more months.

    Hunter Biden is scum
    Matt Gaetz is scum
    Joe Biden wasn't fit to be president
    Donald Trump isn't fit to be president

    I don't know why people cannot accept all four statements as fact but instead pretend that only the ones of the 'other side' matter.
    Hunter Biden is not a politician,
    Matt Gaetz is - and was in line to be the country's chief law officer.

    That you can't see the difference between the two things speaks volumes.

    Biden's AG was even handed to the point of massively frustrating his own party.

    Meanwhile, Congressional Republicans spent tens of millions investigating a private citizen - who had already pled guilty to two felonies - and years covering up the misfeasance of one of their own.

    HE HAD ENOUGH INFLUENCE TO GET A PRESIDENTIAL PARDON STRETCHED OVER ELEVEN YEARS

    Do you not see that by the act of giving such a time specific pardon that all the investigations into Hunter Biden have now been justified ?

    And please stop this pathetic 'my side good, their side bad' line.

    One of the reasons why American politics is in such a shocking state is the manichaean refusal to criticise people on their own side.

    And as Gaetz, Trump and the GOP as a whole are deserving of criticism so are Hunter, Joe and the Dems as a whole.
    You missed the whole Congress silent SIX YEARS INVESTIGATING HIM DESPITE THERE BEING NO REASON TO DO SO.

    You think that might have promoted his ageing dad to pardon him?

    You are clearly equating two sets of things which aren't the same.

    What's your critique of Hunter Biden beyond his having fiddled his taxes and owned a gun guy a week while a drug user ?
    Because that's all that he's criminally liable for.

    And it's fuck all to do with politics.
  • Foxy said:

    RobD said:

    carnforth said:

    FT sticking the boot in:



    "Fuck business" indeed.

    They are feeling about the same as they were at the start of a once-in-a-century global pandemic.
    Which shows there's been a ridiculous over reaction.

    Almost certainly so, and the corollary is that there will be a steep recovery in the Spring.
    Hopefully.

    But possibly not if we enter a negative feedback loop of loss of confidence -> reduced economic activity -> reduction in tax revenues -> government cuts -> further loss of confidence.

    Whatever happens the economic bad mouthing and allowing a vacuum before the delayed budget to be filled by taxation scare stories were mistakes by the government.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,137
    Former President Bill Clinton has been hospitalized in Washington after developing a fever.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2024/12/23/bill-clinton-hospitalized-after-fever-00195962
  • Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    The GOP efforts to bury this report make their six year pursuit of private citizen Hunter Biden utterly hypocritical.

    Ethics releases Matt Gaetz report
    https://thehill.com/homenews/house/5054176-house-ethics-committee-gaetz-report/

    Gaetz report renews debate about how he escaped federal charges
    https://www.politico.com/news/2024/12/23/matt-gaetz-ethics-report-doj-criminal-charges-00195955

    Gaetz is a horrible person but he's not a multiple felon with excessive influence over the President.
    He might well have been a multiple felon had he ever been charged, and he undeniably had sufficient political influence to be first choice as Trump's Attorney General.

    And there's zero evidence - despite the Republicans in Congress spending six years, and tens of millions of dollars investigating him - that Biden Jnr had any substantive political influence at all.
    If Gaetz had been charged.

    Remind us who has been in power for the last four years.


    Boy Biden had enough influence to get a presidential pardon stretched over a suspiciously large period in addition to the things he had been convicted of. Who knows what other influence he has had and how much influence he would have had if Senile Joe had managed to keep his decline hidden for a few more months.

    Hunter Biden is scum
    Matt Gaetz is scum
    Joe Biden wasn't fit to be president
    Donald Trump isn't fit to be president

    I don't know why people cannot accept all four statements as fact but instead pretend that only the ones of the 'other side' matter.
    Hunter Biden is not a politician,
    Matt Gaetz is - and was in line to be the country's chief law officer.

    That you can't see the difference between the two things speaks volumes.

    Biden's AG was even handed to the point of massively frustrating his own party.

    Meanwhile, Congressional Republicans spent tens of millions investigating a private citizen - who had already pled guilty to two felonies - and years covering up the misfeasance of one of their own.

    HE HAD ENOUGH INFLUENCE TO GET A PRESIDENTIAL PARDON STRETCHED OVER ELEVEN YEARS

    Do you not see that by the act of giving such a time specific pardon that all the investigations into Hunter Biden have now been justified ?

    And please stop this pathetic 'my side good, their side bad' line.

    One of the reasons why American politics is in such a shocking state is the manichaean refusal to criticise people on their own side.

    And as Gaetz, Trump and the GOP as a whole are deserving of criticism so are Hunter, Joe and the Dems as a whole.
    You missed the whole Congress silent SIX YEARS INVESTIGATING HIM DESPITE THERE BEING NO READIN TO DO SO.

    You think that might have promoted his ageing dad to pardon him?

    You are clearly equating two sets of things which aren't the same.

    What's your critique of Hunter Biden beyond his having fiddled his taxes and owned a gun guy a week while a drug user ?
    Because that's all that he's criminally liable for.

    And it's fuck all to do with politics.
    So why does Hunter Biden need a presidential pardon for an eleven year period ?

    You don't know and I don't know but Hunter Biden certainly does.

    And the worst of this is that its given justification to the Trump clan.

    All the self-serving crap that Trump has spouted about being unfair prosecutions and political witch-hunts were replicated by Joe Biden in his presidential pardon statement.
  • Former President Bill Clinton has been hospitalized in Washington after developing a fever.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2024/12/23/bill-clinton-hospitalized-after-fever-00195962

    Bill Clinton is younger than Joe Biden.

    Even more amazing is that Joe Biden's birthdate was nearer Abraham Lincoln's presidency than his own.

    Six months ago the US government, and Dem leadership, were still covering up Joe Biden's infirmities and claiming he was good for another four years as President.

    A shameful legacy of deceit which has had the immediate consequence of a second Trump presidency.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,281

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    The GOP efforts to bury this report make their six year pursuit of private citizen Hunter Biden utterly hypocritical.

    Ethics releases Matt Gaetz report
    https://thehill.com/homenews/house/5054176-house-ethics-committee-gaetz-report/

    Gaetz report renews debate about how he escaped federal charges
    https://www.politico.com/news/2024/12/23/matt-gaetz-ethics-report-doj-criminal-charges-00195955

    Gaetz is a horrible person but he's not a multiple felon with excessive influence over the President.
    He might well have been a multiple felon had he ever been charged, and he undeniably had sufficient political influence to be first choice as Trump's Attorney General.

    And there's zero evidence - despite the Republicans in Congress spending six years, and tens of millions of dollars investigating him - that Biden Jnr had any substantive political influence at all.
    If Gaetz had been charged.

    Remind us who has been in power for the last four years.


    Boy Biden had enough influence to get a presidential pardon stretched over a suspiciously large period in addition to the things he had been convicted of. Who knows what other influence he has had and how much influence he would have had if Senile Joe had managed to keep his decline hidden for a few more months.

    Hunter Biden is scum
    Matt Gaetz is scum
    Joe Biden wasn't fit to be president
    Donald Trump isn't fit to be president

    I don't know why people cannot accept all four statements as fact but instead pretend that only the ones of the 'other side' matter.
    Hunter Biden is not a politician,
    Matt Gaetz is - and was in line to be the country's chief law officer.

    That you can't see the difference between the two things speaks volumes.

    Biden's AG was even handed to the point of massively frustrating his own party.

    Meanwhile, Congressional Republicans spent tens of millions investigating a private citizen - who had already pled guilty to two felonies - and years covering up the misfeasance of one of their own.

    HE HAD ENOUGH INFLUENCE TO GET A PRESIDENTIAL PARDON STRETCHED OVER ELEVEN YEARS

    Do you not see that by the act of giving such a time specific pardon that all the investigations into Hunter Biden have now been justified ?

    And please stop this pathetic 'my side good, their side bad' line.

    One of the reasons why American politics is in such a shocking state is the manichaean refusal to criticise people on their own side.

    And as Gaetz, Trump and the GOP as a whole are deserving of criticism so are Hunter, Joe and the Dems as a whole.
    You missed the whole Congress silent SIX YEARS INVESTIGATING HIM DESPITE THERE BEING NO READIN TO DO SO.

    You think that might have promoted his ageing dad to pardon him?

    You are clearly equating two sets of things which aren't the same.

    What's your critique of Hunter Biden beyond his having fiddled his taxes and owned a gun guy a week while a drug user ?
    Because that's all that he's criminally liable for.

    And it's fuck all to do with politics.
    So why does Hunter Biden need a presidential pardon for an eleven year period ?

    I've just explained why.
    His father dissent want to see his son subject to another four years of pointless persecution.

    Is it politically adviseable ? Probably not.

    But it's bugger all to do with anything he might have done. The six years of Congressional investigation turned up nothing. And you've just demonstrated that you have no substantive reason to investigate him, either.

    But the ongoing Republican show would have otherwise been inevitable.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    edited December 24

    HYUFD said:

    Majority of WASPI women have defected to Reform UK, a poll of 11,000 suggests.
    https://x.com/Inevitablewest/status/1871188682927112694

    Link to polling company please
    https://www.gbnews.com/politics/waspi-women-swarm-farage-reform-uk

    'WASPI’s SurveyMonkey poll of affected 1950s-born women received 10,994 responses between December 11 – 20, 2024.'
    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/waspi-women-flock-nigel-farages-34360135
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,870
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Majority of WASPI women have defected to Reform UK, a poll of 11,000 suggests.
    https://x.com/Inevitablewest/status/1871188682927112694

    Link to polling company please
    https://www.gbnews.com/politics/waspi-women-swarm-farage-reform-uk

    'WASPI’s SurveyMonkey poll of affected 1950s-born women received 10,994 responses between December 11 – 20, 2024.'
    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/waspi-women-flock-nigel-farages-34360135
    So the WASPI campaign email list, then.

    Surveymonkey is not a polling company, it's a way of making little online polls and collating the results.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,870
    Nevetheless, since the survey asked who they voted for last time, there is some value.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,962
    Reform are idiots if they're advocating that the WASPI women should get their money.
  • DumbosaurusDumbosaurus Posts: 813
    edited December 24
    viewcode said:

    All together now... "One of Viewcode's Rants is infantilised adults and adultised children. We need a bright shining line between adult and child, and that cutoff should be by age".

    Over the past, what, 20? years, that line has become blurred and seems to move up and down depending on whatever. Last time I bought this up people were kind enough to explain that a wide range is historically not unusual, and I take the point, but we should be making it narrower, not wider. I knew about the Catholic Age of Reason (7? 8?) which is frankly ridiculous (apologies to my Marian colleagues). I'd go for 16 or 18: younger than that is child abuse, older than that is stupid. If a child becomes an adult at 16, then a voting age of 16 is valid. If 17 or more, than a voting age of 16 is invalid.

    This is it for me. I want one age (although I would set your range anywhere between 14 and 21 with a pretty neutral view). For fucking, porning, voting, smoking, drinking, driving, contracting, fighting, not-truanting, businessing, invading, imprisoning, murdering, shooting, marrying, trolling... I personally think that 15 or 16 is probably the best age for this but I'm very chilled about precisely what it is and I can see that in our infanitalised treatment of teenagers maybe only 21 would be accepted. I can live with that. The important thing is that it is bloody consistent. These different ages are very silly indeed.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,424
    There's a little film on BBC. It's called "Lost at Christmas". It's a proper little sweet little romantic film. It's also packed full of Scottish sci-fi alumni - Sylvester McCoy! Frasier Hines! Claire Grogan! Caitlin Blackwood! And I'm watching it and thoroughly enjoying it...

    ...but it must of cost hundreds of thousands to make, it's on a dying TV channel, and if I hadn't left iPlayer on to watch The War Games I'd've never had seen it. What will we do when neat little things like this are a thing of the past :(
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,662

    viewcode said:

    All together now... "One of Viewcode's Rants is infantilised adults and adultised children. We need a bright shining line between adult and child, and that cutoff should be by age".

    Over the past, what, 20? years, that line has become blurred and seems to move up and down depending on whatever. Last time I bought this up people were kind enough to explain that a wide range is historically not unusual, and I take the point, but we should be making it narrower, not wider. I knew about the Catholic Age of Reason (7? 8?) which is frankly ridiculous (apologies to my Marian colleagues). I'd go for 16 or 18: younger than that is child abuse, older than that is stupid. If a child becomes an adult at 16, then a voting age of 16 is valid. If 17 or more, than a voting age of 16 is invalid.

    This is it for me. I want one age (although I would set your range anywhere between 14 and 21 with a pretty neutral view). For fucking, porning, voting, smoking, drinking, driving, contracting, fighting, not-truanting, businessing, invading, imprisoning, murdering, shooting, marrying, trolling... I personally think that 15 or 16 is probably the best age for this but I'm very chilled about precisely what it is and I can see that in our infanitalised treatment of teenagers maybe only 21 would be accepted. I can live with that. The important thing is that it is bloody consistent. These different ages are very silly indeed.
    Are they inconsistent?

    Many of us have kids. Some of us even have kids that we know about.

    And you know what, they don't go from one day a baby, the next able to be Prime Minister. They grow and they evolve and they mature.

    As parents, we expand the perimeter of their responsibilities gradually. We say "yes, you can walk to and from the shops on your own", "yes, you can stay home overnight on your own", "no, you can't smoke that in the house", "yes, you can bring your girlfriend for your birthday dinner", "no, she can't stay overnight in your bedroom", "yes, you can choose your A Levels and University", etc etc etc.

    Now, different people mature at different rates, and sadly simplicity is necessary for laws.

    But kids gain responsibilities one bit at a time, not in some sudden rush of maturity.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,164
    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    All together now... "One of Viewcode's Rants is infantilised adults and adultised children. We need a bright shining line between adult and child, and that cutoff should be by age".

    Over the past, what, 20? years, that line has become blurred and seems to move up and down depending on whatever. Last time I bought this up people were kind enough to explain that a wide range is historically not unusual, and I take the point, but we should be making it narrower, not wider. I knew about the Catholic Age of Reason (7? 8?) which is frankly ridiculous (apologies to my Marian colleagues). I'd go for 16 or 18: younger than that is child abuse, older than that is stupid. If a child becomes an adult at 16, then a voting age of 16 is valid. If 17 or more, than a voting age of 16 is invalid.

    This is it for me. I want one age (although I would set your range anywhere between 14 and 21 with a pretty neutral view). For fucking, porning, voting, smoking, drinking, driving, contracting, fighting, not-truanting, businessing, invading, imprisoning, murdering, shooting, marrying, trolling... I personally think that 15 or 16 is probably the best age for this but I'm very chilled about precisely what it is and I can see that in our infanitalised treatment of teenagers maybe only 21 would be accepted. I can live with that. The important thing is that it is bloody consistent. These different ages are very silly indeed.
    Are they inconsistent?

    Many of us have kids. Some of us even have kids that we know about.

    And you know what, they don't go from one day a baby, the next able to be Prime Minister. They grow and they evolve and they mature.

    As parents, we expand the perimeter of their responsibilities gradually. We say "yes, you can walk to and from the shops on your own", "yes, you can stay home overnight on your own", "no, you can't smoke that in the house", "yes, you can bring your girlfriend for your birthday dinner", "no, she can't stay overnight in your bedroom", "yes, you can choose your A Levels and University", etc etc etc.

    Now, different people mature at different rates, and sadly simplicity is necessary for laws.

    But kids gain responsibilities one bit at a time, not in some sudden rush of maturity.
    Nevertheless getting married, joining the army, having a full-time job, flying a glider and having sex are of rather more consequence and risk, both to you and others, than voting for your local councillor or MP.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,424
    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    All together now... "One of Viewcode's Rants is infantilised adults and adultised children. We need a bright shining line between adult and child, and that cutoff should be by age".

    Over the past, what, 20? years, that line has become blurred and seems to move up and down depending on whatever. Last time I bought this up people were kind enough to explain that a wide range is historically not unusual, and I take the point, but we should be making it narrower, not wider. I knew about the Catholic Age of Reason (7? 8?) which is frankly ridiculous (apologies to my Marian colleagues). I'd go for 16 or 18: younger than that is child abuse, older than that is stupid. If a child becomes an adult at 16, then a voting age of 16 is valid. If 17 or more, than a voting age of 16 is invalid.

    This is it for me. I want one age (although I would set your range anywhere between 14 and 21 with a pretty neutral view). For fucking, porning, voting, smoking, drinking, driving, contracting, fighting, not-truanting, businessing, invading, imprisoning, murdering, shooting, marrying, trolling... I personally think that 15 or 16 is probably the best age for this but I'm very chilled about precisely what it is and I can see that in our infanitalised treatment of teenagers maybe only 21 would be accepted. I can live with that. The important thing is that it is bloody consistent. These different ages are very silly indeed.
    Are they inconsistent?

    Many of us have kids. Some of us even have kids that we know about.

    And you know what, they don't go from one day a baby, the next able to be Prime Minister. They grow and they evolve and they mature.

    As parents, we expand the perimeter of their responsibilities gradually. We say "yes, you can walk to and from the shops on your own", "yes, you can stay home overnight on your own", "no, you can't smoke that in the house", "yes, you can bring your girlfriend for your birthday dinner", "no, she can't stay overnight in your bedroom", "yes, you can choose your A Levels and University", etc etc etc.

    Now, different people mature at different rates, and sadly simplicity is necessary for laws.

    But kids gain responsibilities one bit at a time, not in some sudden rush of maturity.
    Ahem. May I introduce you to Loki's Wager https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loki's_wager
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,778
    Dura_Ace said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    The leaders of @eurofighter and #NETMA (the @NATO Eurofighter and Tornado Management Agency) today signed the contract for up to 24 @ItalianAirForce Eurofighters in #Rome. The announcement comes at a strategically important time for the Eurofighter programme and follows the contract signing last Friday (20 December) for 25 Eurofighters for the Spanish Air Force. The new Italian Eurofighter Typhoon jets will replace Italian Tranche 1 versions that are currently in service.
    https://x.com/Leonardo_live/status/1871239691758104867

    The tranche 1 Eurofighters aren't *that* old - surely their airframes are serviceable, and their avionics could be upgraded to the latest version.

    There are still some Block 15 (early 80s) F-16s in use, albeit mostly for training purposes. And I believe Israel still flies some of the very earliest F-16s made.
    TR1 EFs would need a structural change in the forward fuselage to accommodate the newest computing hardware. They certainly would be obsolete by the time that was negotiated, contracted, designed, certified and implemented. Also... money.

    I probably should have mentioned that it IS possible to put an AESA radar into a TR1 EF, just not the AESA radar that the UK are buying.

    Airbus have made a modification package to allow installation of CAPTOR-E into a TR1 EF. The EuroRadar consortium has split into two factions with two different radars. You have Spain and Germany (Hensoldt and Indra now in Airbus) doing CAPTOR-E which is a CAPTOR-M backend with software from the Raven in the Gripen. Then you have the UK and Italy (Selex and Finmeccanica now in Leonardo) who felt that at an AESA radar for Eurofighter had to be comparable in performance and features to the AN/APG-81 in F-35 so they are doing ECRS2.

    If NOTHING ELSE goes wrong, each radar set will cost £60m and be in service 27 years after the program to upgrade Typhoon's radar started but apparently giving the MoD more money is a great idea.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,546

    Dura_Ace said:

    I never tip anybody as it reinforces the bourgeois social hierarchy and master/servant relationships.

    I will lend our postman a copy of Marx's Der Bürgerkrieg in Frankreich if he wants thought.

    Happily we are past the days of loo paper shortages, so the gesture would seem unnecessary.
    To me, tipping people where appropriate, is like leaving an appreciative comment, or kudos, on an enjoyable piece of fanfiction. Simply good manners.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,546
    Foxy said:

    RobD said:

    carnforth said:

    FT sticking the boot in:



    "Fuck business" indeed.

    They are feeling about the same as they were at the start of a once-in-a-century global pandemic.
    Which shows there's been a ridiculous over reaction.

    Almost certainly so, and the corollary is that there will be a steep recovery in the Spring.
    Business investment numbers are in fact, not bad, up 1.9% on the quarter, and 5.8% on the year.

    But, I don’t know what the government has been playing at.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,952
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Majority of WASPI women have defected to Reform UK, a poll of 11,000 suggests.
    https://x.com/Inevitablewest/status/1871188682927112694

    Are Reform planning to bunk the Waspi women 10 billion pounds? If so more fool them.
    Reform will offer the voters their own personal moon on a stick.

    It is not a responsible party of government.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,281
    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    All together now... "One of Viewcode's Rants is infantilised adults and adultised children. We need a bright shining line between adult and child, and that cutoff should be by age".

    Over the past, what, 20? years, that line has become blurred and seems to move up and down depending on whatever. Last time I bought this up people were kind enough to explain that a wide range is historically not unusual, and I take the point, but we should be making it narrower, not wider. I knew about the Catholic Age of Reason (7? 8?) which is frankly ridiculous (apologies to my Marian colleagues). I'd go for 16 or 18: younger than that is child abuse, older than that is stupid. If a child becomes an adult at 16, then a voting age of 16 is valid. If 17 or more, than a voting age of 16 is invalid.

    This is it for me. I want one age (although I would set your range anywhere between 14 and 21 with a pretty neutral view). For fucking, porning, voting, smoking, drinking, driving, contracting, fighting, not-truanting, businessing, invading, imprisoning, murdering, shooting, marrying, trolling... I personally think that 15 or 16 is probably the best age for this but I'm very chilled about precisely what it is and I can see that in our infanitalised treatment of teenagers maybe only 21 would be accepted. I can live with that. The important thing is that it is bloody consistent. These different ages are very silly indeed.
    Are they inconsistent?

    Many of us have kids. Some of us even have kids that we know about.

    And you know what, they don't go from one day a baby, the next able to be Prime Minister. They grow and they evolve and they mature.

    As parents, we expand the perimeter of their responsibilities gradually. We say "yes, you can walk to and from the shops on your own", "yes, you can stay home overnight on your own", "no, you can't smoke that in the house", "yes, you can bring your girlfriend for your birthday dinner", "no, she can't stay overnight in your bedroom", "yes, you can choose your A Levels and University", etc etc etc.

    Now, different people mature at different rates, and sadly simplicity is necessary for laws.

    But kids gain responsibilities one bit at a time, not in some sudden rush of maturity.
    Also physical, emotional and intellectual development don't all happen at the same rate. And laws aren't all there for exactly the same reasons.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,662
    viewcode said:

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    All together now... "One of Viewcode's Rants is infantilised adults and adultised children. We need a bright shining line between adult and child, and that cutoff should be by age".

    Over the past, what, 20? years, that line has become blurred and seems to move up and down depending on whatever. Last time I bought this up people were kind enough to explain that a wide range is historically not unusual, and I take the point, but we should be making it narrower, not wider. I knew about the Catholic Age of Reason (7? 8?) which is frankly ridiculous (apologies to my Marian colleagues). I'd go for 16 or 18: younger than that is child abuse, older than that is stupid. If a child becomes an adult at 16, then a voting age of 16 is valid. If 17 or more, than a voting age of 16 is invalid.

    This is it for me. I want one age (although I would set your range anywhere between 14 and 21 with a pretty neutral view). For fucking, porning, voting, smoking, drinking, driving, contracting, fighting, not-truanting, businessing, invading, imprisoning, murdering, shooting, marrying, trolling... I personally think that 15 or 16 is probably the best age for this but I'm very chilled about precisely what it is and I can see that in our infanitalised treatment of teenagers maybe only 21 would be accepted. I can live with that. The important thing is that it is bloody consistent. These different ages are very silly indeed.
    Are they inconsistent?

    Many of us have kids. Some of us even have kids that we know about.

    And you know what, they don't go from one day a baby, the next able to be Prime Minister. They grow and they evolve and they mature.

    As parents, we expand the perimeter of their responsibilities gradually. We say "yes, you can walk to and from the shops on your own", "yes, you can stay home overnight on your own", "no, you can't smoke that in the house", "yes, you can bring your girlfriend for your birthday dinner", "no, she can't stay overnight in your bedroom", "yes, you can choose your A Levels and University", etc etc etc.

    Now, different people mature at different rates, and sadly simplicity is necessary for laws.

    But kids gain responsibilities one bit at a time, not in some sudden rush of maturity.
    Ahem. May I introduce you to Loki's Wager https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loki's_wager
    I'm not insisting it cannot be discussed, merely that it is not inconsistent or unreasonable to have differing ages for (say) driving a car and voting.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,504
    Russia's lost another ship; this time a cargo ship in the Mediterranean:

    https://x.com/Osinttechnical/status/1871400348432085047
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,843
    IanB2 said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    I never tip anybody as it reinforces the bourgeois social hierarchy and master/servant relationships.

    I will lend our postman a copy of Marx's Der Bürgerkrieg in Frankreich if he wants thought.

    Happily we are past the days of loo paper shortages, so the gesture would seem unnecessary.
    I haven’t bought any toilet paper since the pandemic
    According to some stuff on the Internet..using toilet paper causes prostate trouble
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,662
    IanB2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    All together now... "One of Viewcode's Rants is infantilised adults and adultised children. We need a bright shining line between adult and child, and that cutoff should be by age".

    Over the past, what, 20? years, that line has become blurred and seems to move up and down depending on whatever. Last time I bought this up people were kind enough to explain that a wide range is historically not unusual, and I take the point, but we should be making it narrower, not wider. I knew about the Catholic Age of Reason (7? 8?) which is frankly ridiculous (apologies to my Marian colleagues). I'd go for 16 or 18: younger than that is child abuse, older than that is stupid. If a child becomes an adult at 16, then a voting age of 16 is valid. If 17 or more, than a voting age of 16 is invalid.

    This is it for me. I want one age (although I would set your range anywhere between 14 and 21 with a pretty neutral view). For fucking, porning, voting, smoking, drinking, driving, contracting, fighting, not-truanting, businessing, invading, imprisoning, murdering, shooting, marrying, trolling... I personally think that 15 or 16 is probably the best age for this but I'm very chilled about precisely what it is and I can see that in our infanitalised treatment of teenagers maybe only 21 would be accepted. I can live with that. The important thing is that it is bloody consistent. These different ages are very silly indeed.
    Are they inconsistent?

    Many of us have kids. Some of us even have kids that we know about.

    And you know what, they don't go from one day a baby, the next able to be Prime Minister. They grow and they evolve and they mature.

    As parents, we expand the perimeter of their responsibilities gradually. We say "yes, you can walk to and from the shops on your own", "yes, you can stay home overnight on your own", "no, you can't smoke that in the house", "yes, you can bring your girlfriend for your birthday dinner", "no, she can't stay overnight in your bedroom", "yes, you can choose your A Levels and University", etc etc etc.

    Now, different people mature at different rates, and sadly simplicity is necessary for laws.

    But kids gain responsibilities one bit at a time, not in some sudden rush of maturity.
    Nevertheless getting married, joining the army, having a full-time job, flying a glider and having sex are of rather more consequence and risk, both to you and others, than voting for your local councillor or MP.
    I disagree.

    When you vote, you stand in judgement over your fellow man, just as a magistrate and a juror does.

    It bears the same responsibility.

    I think the age of voting and the age of acting as a Juror should be the same, and should be 18.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,952
    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    Merry Christmas everyone.

    I’ve been travelling around the world, a circumnavigation, and haven’t been following the so-called News but I hope you’re all well.

    xx

    Great to see you back.

    Last day of work for me before the break, so I thought I would share some difficult sums:


    Is that a yule log?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,504
    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    All together now... "One of Viewcode's Rants is infantilised adults and adultised children. We need a bright shining line between adult and child, and that cutoff should be by age".

    Over the past, what, 20? years, that line has become blurred and seems to move up and down depending on whatever. Last time I bought this up people were kind enough to explain that a wide range is historically not unusual, and I take the point, but we should be making it narrower, not wider. I knew about the Catholic Age of Reason (7? 8?) which is frankly ridiculous (apologies to my Marian colleagues). I'd go for 16 or 18: younger than that is child abuse, older than that is stupid. If a child becomes an adult at 16, then a voting age of 16 is valid. If 17 or more, than a voting age of 16 is invalid.

    This is it for me. I want one age (although I would set your range anywhere between 14 and 21 with a pretty neutral view). For fucking, porning, voting, smoking, drinking, driving, contracting, fighting, not-truanting, businessing, invading, imprisoning, murdering, shooting, marrying, trolling... I personally think that 15 or 16 is probably the best age for this but I'm very chilled about precisely what it is and I can see that in our infanitalised treatment of teenagers maybe only 21 would be accepted. I can live with that. The important thing is that it is bloody consistent. These different ages are very silly indeed.
    Are they inconsistent?

    Many of us have kids. Some of us even have kids that we know about.

    And you know what, they don't go from one day a baby, the next able to be Prime Minister. They grow and they evolve and they mature.

    As parents, we expand the perimeter of their responsibilities gradually. We say "yes, you can walk to and from the shops on your own", "yes, you can stay home overnight on your own", "no, you can't smoke that in the house", "yes, you can bring your girlfriend for your birthday dinner", "no, she can't stay overnight in your bedroom", "yes, you can choose your A Levels and University", etc etc etc.

    Now, different people mature at different rates, and sadly simplicity is necessary for laws.

    But kids gain responsibilities one bit at a time, not in some sudden rush of maturity.
    Ahem. May I introduce you to Loki's Wager https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loki's_wager
    I'm not insisting it cannot be discussed, merely that it is not inconsistent or unreasonable to have differing ages for (say) driving a car and voting.
    I've been busy and not following the conversation, but I'm inclined to agree with you.

    But what fascinates me is the variability between, and within people. Someone might be sensible enough, and physically able to, drive a car at fourteen. Others may not be sensible enough at thirty. Likewise, whilst someone might be sexually mature enough to have sex at sixteen, they may not be mentally mature enough to cope with the responsibilities and consequences of sex. Others may be, much younger.

    Looking back at myself as a teenager, I matured faster and slower than my compatriots in different ways.

    Yet we legally need hard-and-fast ages for these things. One age may work for one kid, and it may be disastrous for another.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,281
    Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    The leaders of @eurofighter and #NETMA (the @NATO Eurofighter and Tornado Management Agency) today signed the contract for up to 24 @ItalianAirForce Eurofighters in #Rome. The announcement comes at a strategically important time for the Eurofighter programme and follows the contract signing last Friday (20 December) for 25 Eurofighters for the Spanish Air Force. The new Italian Eurofighter Typhoon jets will replace Italian Tranche 1 versions that are currently in service.
    https://x.com/Leonardo_live/status/1871239691758104867

    The tranche 1 Eurofighters aren't *that* old - surely their airframes are serviceable, and their avionics could be upgraded to the latest version.

    There are still some Block 15 (early 80s) F-16s in use, albeit mostly for training purposes. And I believe Israel still flies some of the very earliest F-16s made.
    TR1 EFs would need a structural change in the forward fuselage to accommodate the newest computing hardware. They certainly would be obsolete by the time that was negotiated, contracted, designed, certified and implemented. Also... money.

    I probably should have mentioned that it IS possible to put an AESA radar into a TR1 EF, just not the AESA radar that the UK are buying.

    Airbus have made a modification package to allow installation of CAPTOR-E into a TR1 EF. The EuroRadar consortium has split into two factions with two different radars. You have Spain and Germany (Hensoldt and Indra now in Airbus) doing CAPTOR-E which is a CAPTOR-M backend with software from the Raven in the Gripen. Then you have the UK and Italy (Selex and Finmeccanica now in Leonardo) who felt that at an AESA radar for Eurofighter had to be comparable in performance and features to the AN/APG-81 in F-35 so they are doing ECRS2.

    If NOTHING ELSE goes wrong, each radar set will cost £60m and be in service 27 years after the program to upgrade Typhoon's radar started but apparently giving the MoD more money is a great idea.
    Is that cost for each additional unit of production - or dues it include the development costs amortised over the number were actually fitting ?
    Because those aren't the same things all.

    On the former score, the incredibly complex and hugely expensive to develop F35, for example, is now one of the cheaper advanced fighters that you can buy.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,952

    Starmer spending Christmas abroad seems to fit the narrative he would rather be abroad than in the UK

    Mind you, when one of his former councillors pen's a letter like this you do have to wonder just how much unhappiness there is in Labour’s ranks at present

    https://www.instagram.com/p/DD4fLSKt7iT/?igsh=MTQ3ajI4eWVudDN0cQ==

    Maybe the Indian Subcontinent. He likes a beer and a curry.
    May I take this opportunity of wishing you and yours a Happy Christmas and New Year

    There is more to life than politics
    Merry Christmas to you and your good lady, Big_G.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,281
    Andy_JS said:

    Reform are idiots if they're advocating that the WASPI women should get their money.

    I'm not sure they are ?

    But if Reform can pull off the Trump trick* of attracting disaffected voters, despite offering no real solutions for them (and in many cases advocating policies which will likely make life actively worse for them), then Farsge is a decent bet for next PM.

    *See also, Brexit.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,662
    Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    The leaders of @eurofighter and #NETMA (the @NATO Eurofighter and Tornado Management Agency) today signed the contract for up to 24 @ItalianAirForce Eurofighters in #Rome. The announcement comes at a strategically important time for the Eurofighter programme and follows the contract signing last Friday (20 December) for 25 Eurofighters for the Spanish Air Force. The new Italian Eurofighter Typhoon jets will replace Italian Tranche 1 versions that are currently in service.
    https://x.com/Leonardo_live/status/1871239691758104867

    The tranche 1 Eurofighters aren't *that* old - surely their airframes are serviceable, and their avionics could be upgraded to the latest version.

    There are still some Block 15 (early 80s) F-16s in use, albeit mostly for training purposes. And I believe Israel still flies some of the very earliest F-16s made.
    TR1 EFs would need a structural change in the forward fuselage to accommodate the newest computing hardware. They certainly would be obsolete by the time that was negotiated, contracted, designed, certified and implemented. Also... money.

    I probably should have mentioned that it IS possible to put an AESA radar into a TR1 EF, just not the AESA radar that the UK are buying.

    Airbus have made a modification package to allow installation of CAPTOR-E into a TR1 EF. The EuroRadar consortium has split into two factions with two different radars. You have Spain and Germany (Hensoldt and Indra now in Airbus) doing CAPTOR-E which is a CAPTOR-M backend with software from the Raven in the Gripen. Then you have the UK and Italy (Selex and Finmeccanica now in Leonardo) who felt that at an AESA radar for Eurofighter had to be comparable in performance and features to the AN/APG-81 in F-35 so they are doing ECRS2.

    If NOTHING ELSE goes wrong, each radar set will cost £60m and be in service 27 years after the program to upgrade Typhoon's radar started but apparently giving the MoD more money is a great idea.
    A few years ago I was accidentally involved in hiring Indra to do some development work (they came in half the price of of any of the other bids, and their references checked out so we didn't really have any other choice).

    And I was staggered by how competent they were.

    I mean, they obviously didn't deliver on time (this is software development), but they communicated well. It was a contracting revelation. The difference with Accenture (expensive, late, no communication, heck noone over the age of 25 to even talk to) was stark.

    Obviously, I couldn't in all conscience recommend anyone uses a big IT/defence contractor. But Indra were -head and shoulders- better than anyone else I've been involved in.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,662
    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Reform are idiots if they're advocating that the WASPI women should get their money.

    I'm not sure they are ?

    But if Reform can pull off the Trump trick* of attracting disaffected voters, despite offering no real solutions for them (and in many cases advocating policies which will likely make life actively worse for them), then Farsge is a decent bet for next PM.

    *See also, Brexit.
    Surely the real trick to getting elected is opening up a massive gap between reality and belief.

    If you believe Elon Musk, Germany and New York are both crime infested hell holes.

    When the reality is that you are dramatically safer in either than -say- Texas.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,662

    Russia's lost another ship; this time a cargo ship in the Mediterranean:

    https://x.com/Osinttechnical/status/1871400348432085047

    Oh dear, what a shame. (Etc.)
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,780
    edited December 24

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    The GOP efforts to bury this report make their six year pursuit of private citizen Hunter Biden utterly hypocritical.

    Ethics releases Matt Gaetz report
    https://thehill.com/homenews/house/5054176-house-ethics-committee-gaetz-report/

    Gaetz report renews debate about how he escaped federal charges
    https://www.politico.com/news/2024/12/23/matt-gaetz-ethics-report-doj-criminal-charges-00195955

    Gaetz is a horrible person but he's not a multiple felon with excessive influence over the President.
    He might well have been a multiple felon had he ever been charged, and he undeniably had sufficient political influence to be first choice as Trump's Attorney General.

    And there's zero evidence - despite the Republicans in Congress spending six years, and tens of millions of dollars investigating him - that Biden Jnr had any substantive political influence at all.
    If Gaetz had been charged.

    Remind us who has been in power for the last four years.

    Boy Biden had enough influence to get a presidential pardon stretched over a suspiciously large period in addition to the things he had been convicted of. Who knows what other influence he has had and how much influence he would have had if Senile Joe had managed to keep his decline hidden for a few more months.

    Hunter Biden is scum
    Matt Gaetz is scum
    Joe Biden wasn't fit to be president
    Donald Trump isn't fit to be president

    I don't know why people cannot accept all four statements as fact but instead pretend that only the ones of the 'other side' matter.
    They might all be true, without being equal. Joe Biden I'm unsure if he was doing mostly alright until the last 1.5 years or not.

    Hunter Biden, though, is a piece of sh*t. Though that is different from how many crimes he may or may not have committed, which they spent a lot on.
    I'm sure Joe has lucid periods among the senile ones.

    What the proportions were and how the pattern changed over the four years we don't know.

    But we do know that Biden's administration and various Dem leaders went along with it, lied about it and even claimed he was good for another four years.
    We do not *know* that. We know it has been claimed by a well-known forger and liar with an axe to grind, who is clearly suffering from rapid mental decline himself. That is hardly the same thing.

    We also do not *know* that Hunter Biden had any influence over his father. (See above, but replace *advanced mental decline* with *appoints his son’s - ahem - closest friend as Vice President*.)

    Finally, when it comes to the pardon issued we know that Trump had threatened to act illegally to have a number of his ‘enemies’ locked up on trumped up (sic) charges and that there was an urgent need to forestall him by eliminating any legal route to do so. Hunter Biden is one individual for whom Trump has such a burning hatred.

    As for why Gaetz hasn’t been prosecuted, there may be a number of reasons, but I would point out most of the more serious crimes (e.g. trafficking) were committed by his associates, who *have* been prosecuted.

    Of course, your remarks may have been about Musk, but as far as I know he’s not been convicted yet.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036
    rcs1000 said:

    Russia's lost another ship; this time a cargo ship in the Mediterranean:

    https://x.com/Osinttechnical/status/1871400348432085047

    Oh dear, what a shame. (Etc.)
    It’s almost as if ancient and long-time unserviceable ships have a bit of a habit of ending up at the bottom of the sea.

    The oil tankers that sank last week left a massive oil slick on the beach at holiday resort. So a few emergency workers turned up with the media to clean up the beach and film segments for the news. Except that they had no plans to remove their begs of contaminated sand afterwards, so they all got swept back out to sea when the tide came in! https://x.com/jayinkyiv/status/1870941541696520662
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,780
    edited December 24
    rcs1000 said:

    Russia's lost another ship; this time a cargo ship in the Mediterranean:

    https://x.com/Osinttechnical/status/1871400348432085047

    Oh dear, what a shame. (Etc.)
    If this site is to be believed, it suffered a broken fuel line and lost power:

    https://www.vesseltracker.com/en/Ships/Ursa-Major-9538892.html

    I’m not quite sure why that would be terminal on its own - the weather in the Western Med doesn’t look very bad - but it may have been a sign of even more serious maintenance issues perhaps?

    Apparently it was on its way to Syria to retrieve Russian military equipment.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,662
    rcs1000 said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    The leaders of @eurofighter and #NETMA (the @NATO Eurofighter and Tornado Management Agency) today signed the contract for up to 24 @ItalianAirForce Eurofighters in #Rome. The announcement comes at a strategically important time for the Eurofighter programme and follows the contract signing last Friday (20 December) for 25 Eurofighters for the Spanish Air Force. The new Italian Eurofighter Typhoon jets will replace Italian Tranche 1 versions that are currently in service.
    https://x.com/Leonardo_live/status/1871239691758104867

    The tranche 1 Eurofighters aren't *that* old - surely their airframes are serviceable, and their avionics could be upgraded to the latest version.

    There are still some Block 15 (early 80s) F-16s in use, albeit mostly for training purposes. And I believe Israel still flies some of the very earliest F-16s made.
    TR1 EFs would need a structural change in the forward fuselage to accommodate the newest computing hardware. They certainly would be obsolete by the time that was negotiated, contracted, designed, certified and implemented. Also... money.

    I probably should have mentioned that it IS possible to put an AESA radar into a TR1 EF, just not the AESA radar that the UK are buying.

    Airbus have made a modification package to allow installation of CAPTOR-E into a TR1 EF. The EuroRadar consortium has split into two factions with two different radars. You have Spain and Germany (Hensoldt and Indra now in Airbus) doing CAPTOR-E which is a CAPTOR-M backend with software from the Raven in the Gripen. Then you have the UK and Italy (Selex and Finmeccanica now in Leonardo) who felt that at an AESA radar for Eurofighter had to be comparable in performance and features to the AN/APG-81 in F-35 so they are doing ECRS2.

    If NOTHING ELSE goes wrong, each radar set will cost £60m and be in service 27 years after the program to upgrade Typhoon's radar started but apparently giving the MoD more money is a great idea.
    A few years ago I was accidentally involved in hiring Indra to do some development work (they came in half the price of of any of the other bids, and their references checked out so we didn't really have any other choice).

    And I was staggered by how competent they were.

    I mean, they obviously didn't deliver on time (this is software development), but they communicated well. It was a contracting revelation. The difference with Accenture (expensive, late, no communication, heck noone over the age of 25 to even talk to) was stark.

    Obviously, I couldn't in all conscience recommend anyone uses a big IT/defence contractor. But Indra were -head and shoulders- better than anyone else I've been involved in.
    Yes, I realize saying something is "better than Accenture" is a little like saying that something is "better than AIDS". I mean, it rather goes without saying.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,662
    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Russia's lost another ship; this time a cargo ship in the Mediterranean:

    https://x.com/Osinttechnical/status/1871400348432085047

    Oh dear, what a shame. (Etc.)
    It’s almost as if ancient and long-time unserviceable ships have a bit of a habit of ending up at the bottom of the sea.

    The oil tankers that sank last week left a massive oil slick on the beach at holiday resort. So a few emergency workers turned up with the media to clean up the beach and film segments for the news. Except that they had no plans to remove their begs of contaminated sand afterwards, so they all got swept back out to sea when the tide came in! https://x.com/jayinkyiv/status/1870941541696520662
    Jeeesus...
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,914
    ...

    Starmer spending Christmas abroad seems to fit the narrative he would rather be abroad than in the UK

    Mind you, when one of his former councillors pen's a letter like this you do have to wonder just how much unhappiness there is in Labour’s ranks at present

    https://www.instagram.com/p/DD4fLSKt7iT/?igsh=MTQ3ajI4eWVudDN0cQ==

    Maybe the Indian Subcontinent. He likes a beer and a curry.
    May I take this opportunity of wishing you and yours a Happy Christmas and New Year

    There is more to life than politics
    And to you and yours BigG.
  • The “fixed pie” fallacy is at the heart of much wrong-headed economic thinking.

    There is essentially infinite potential for job and company creation.

    Think of all the things that didn’t exist 20 or 30 years ago!

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1871451701976412293
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,780

    The “fixed pie” fallacy is at the heart of much wrong-headed economic thinking.

    There is essentially infinite potential for job and company creation.

    Think of all the things that didn’t exist 20 or 30 years ago!

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1871451701976412293

    In a Daniel Craig fake southern accent…

    ‘I keep coming back to ‘inbreatheate.’ Not a word…’
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