Great expectations for 2025 – politicalbetting.com

williamglenn said:

rcs1000 said:

LostPassword said:

DavidL said:

LostPassword said:

DavidL said:

rcs1000 said:

williamglenn said:

rcs1000 said:

Nigelb said:

williamglenn said:

Elon Musk is still promoting the AfD:

https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1870488903452676105

The traditional political parties in Germany have utterly failed the people.

🇩🇪 AfD is the only hope for Germany 🇩🇪

Do we really need hourly updates on that ?

It's also bizarre:

German people live longer than Americans, they're less likely to be murdered or medicated or depressed. They are far less likely to be homeless.

America is an amazing place to be rich. Germany is a much, much better place to be lower or middle income.

American statistics are heavily distorted by its demographics so it can be misleading to compare them directly with European countries. For example a *majority* of murder victims are black:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/251877/murder-victims-in-the-us-by-race-ethnicity-and-gender/

Now would you like to check out what the German murder rate is?

It's about 0.8 per 100,000 people.

The murder rate for white, non-Hispanic, in the US is more than 4. (Which is a hell of a lot better than the 30-32 for African Americans.)

But... even picking the lowest likelihood of getting murdered ethnic group, the US homicide rate is 5x the German rate.

So, the murder rate for African Americans in the US is nearly 40x the German rate? Bloody hell. That's incredible.

What's the murder rate for Jews in Germany?

Now? No idea. There has been a rise in anti Semitic attacks since Gaza started but I am not aware of how many involve murder.

What's your point? That the US is better that Nazi Germany?

Well, obviously, the much higher murder rate for Black people in the US, along with much else, is a sign of how the US has failed to deal with the legacies of slavery. This should be a stain upon that nation's conscience.

Since the comparison is between the US and Germany it's natural to think about how Germany has dealt with the Holocaust and its legacy. But then, of course, the Jewish population in Germany is no longer high enough to calculate a statistically meaningful murder rate. So Germany doesn't have to deal with the legacy of its history in as difficult a way as the US does.

So perhaps the US deserves to be cut some slack? What they are trying to do - in recovering from a monumental historical wrong like race-based slavery, without an external power forcing them to face up to it, and without the two sides separating into different polities - is really very difficult, and I don't think it has been achieved by any country before.

Maybe they've done quite well to get as far as they have?

I do cut the US some slack. Indeed, I love the US.

But what I take exception to is the absurd claims of Musk and others that Germany is some kind of hell hole that needs rescuing.

Based on similar reasoning you could have argued against the idea that communist Eastern Europe was some kind of hell hole that needed rescuing.

williamglenn said:

rcs1000 said:

williamglenn said:

rcs1000 said:

LostPassword said:

DavidL said:

LostPassword said:

DavidL said:

rcs1000 said:

williamglenn said:

rcs1000 said:

Nigelb said:

williamglenn said:

Elon Musk is still promoting the AfD:

https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1870488903452676105

The traditional political parties in Germany have utterly failed the people.

🇩🇪 AfD is the only hope for Germany 🇩🇪

Do we really need hourly updates on that ?

It's also bizarre:

German people live longer than Americans, they're less likely to be murdered or medicated or depressed. They are far less likely to be homeless.

America is an amazing place to be rich. Germany is a much, much better place to be lower or middle income.

American statistics are heavily distorted by its demographics so it can be misleading to compare them directly with European countries. For example a *majority* of murder victims are black:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/251877/murder-victims-in-the-us-by-race-ethnicity-and-gender/

Now would you like to check out what the German murder rate is?

It's about 0.8 per 100,000 people.

The murder rate for white, non-Hispanic, in the US is more than 4. (Which is a hell of a lot better than the 30-32 for African Americans.)

But... even picking the lowest likelihood of getting murdered ethnic group, the US homicide rate is 5x the German rate.

So, the murder rate for African Americans in the US is nearly 40x the German rate? Bloody hell. That's incredible.

What's the murder rate for Jews in Germany?

Now? No idea. There has been a rise in anti Semitic attacks since Gaza started but I am not aware of how many involve murder.

What's your point? That the US is better that Nazi Germany?

Well, obviously, the much higher murder rate for Black people in the US, along with much else, is a sign of how the US has failed to deal with the legacies of slavery. This should be a stain upon that nation's conscience.

Since the comparison is between the US and Germany it's natural to think about how Germany has dealt with the Holocaust and its legacy. But then, of course, the Jewish population in Germany is no longer high enough to calculate a statistically meaningful murder rate. So Germany doesn't have to deal with the legacy of its history in as difficult a way as the US does.

So perhaps the US deserves to be cut some slack? What they are trying to do - in recovering from a monumental historical wrong like race-based slavery, without an external power forcing them to face up to it, and without the two sides separating into different polities - is really very difficult, and I don't think it has been achieved by any country before.

Maybe they've done quite well to get as far as they have?

I do cut the US some slack. Indeed, I love the US.

But what I take exception to is the absurd claims of Musk and others that Germany is some kind of hell hole that needs rescuing.

Based on similar reasoning you could have argued against the idea that communist Eastern Europe was some kind of hell hole that needed rescuing.

I think Rawl's Veil of Ignorance applies, don't you?

Assume you have no knowedge as to your race, intelligence, social stature; which country would you choose to be born in?

I think most people, given that choice right now, would go with Norway or Australia or Canada or New Zealand or Singapore or Denmark.

But would you really have chosen Eastern Europe in communist days over the US?

I certainly wouldn't.

Are you fully applying the veil of ignorance though or are you assuming you would be a 'cishet white male'? You might choose Denmark, but by a stroke of bad luck it turns out that you are a persecuted minority who is having their 'ghetto' bulldozed by the state.

rcs1000 said:

williamglenn said:

rcs1000 said:

williamglenn said:

rcs1000 said:

LostPassword said:

DavidL said:

LostPassword said:

DavidL said:

rcs1000 said:

williamglenn said:

rcs1000 said:

Nigelb said:

williamglenn said:

Elon Musk is still promoting the AfD:

https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1870488903452676105

The traditional political parties in Germany have utterly failed the people.

🇩🇪 AfD is the only hope for Germany 🇩🇪

Do we really need hourly updates on that ?

It's also bizarre:

German people live longer than Americans, they're less likely to be murdered or medicated or depressed. They are far less likely to be homeless.

America is an amazing place to be rich. Germany is a much, much better place to be lower or middle income.

American statistics are heavily distorted by its demographics so it can be misleading to compare them directly with European countries. For example a *majority* of murder victims are black:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/251877/murder-victims-in-the-us-by-race-ethnicity-and-gender/

Now would you like to check out what the German murder rate is?

It's about 0.8 per 100,000 people.

The murder rate for white, non-Hispanic, in the US is more than 4. (Which is a hell of a lot better than the 30-32 for African Americans.)

But... even picking the lowest likelihood of getting murdered ethnic group, the US homicide rate is 5x the German rate.

So, the murder rate for African Americans in the US is nearly 40x the German rate? Bloody hell. That's incredible.

What's the murder rate for Jews in Germany?

Now? No idea. There has been a rise in anti Semitic attacks since Gaza started but I am not aware of how many involve murder.

What's your point? That the US is better that Nazi Germany?

Well, obviously, the much higher murder rate for Black people in the US, along with much else, is a sign of how the US has failed to deal with the legacies of slavery. This should be a stain upon that nation's conscience.

Since the comparison is between the US and Germany it's natural to think about how Germany has dealt with the Holocaust and its legacy. But then, of course, the Jewish population in Germany is no longer high enough to calculate a statistically meaningful murder rate. So Germany doesn't have to deal with the legacy of its history in as difficult a way as the US does.

So perhaps the US deserves to be cut some slack? What they are trying to do - in recovering from a monumental historical wrong like race-based slavery, without an external power forcing them to face up to it, and without the two sides separating into different polities - is really very difficult, and I don't think it has been achieved by any country before.

Maybe they've done quite well to get as far as they have?

I do cut the US some slack. Indeed, I love the US.

But what I take exception to is the absurd claims of Musk and others that Germany is some kind of hell hole that needs rescuing.

Based on similar reasoning you could have argued against the idea that communist Eastern Europe was some kind of hell hole that needed rescuing.

I think Rawl's Veil of Ignorance applies, don't you?

Assume you have no knowedge as to your race, intelligence, social stature; which country would you choose to be born in?

I think most people, given that choice right now, would go with Norway or Australia or Canada or New Zealand or Singapore or Denmark.

But would you really have chosen Eastern Europe in communist days over the US?

I certainly wouldn't.

Are you fully applying the veil of ignorance though or are you assuming you would be a 'cishet white male'? You might choose Denmark, but by a stroke of bad luck it turns out that you are a persecuted minority who is having their 'ghetto' bulldozed by the state.

The whole point is that you don't know.

Pro_Rata said:

williamglenn said:

rcs1000 said:

LostPassword said:

DavidL said:

LostPassword said:

DavidL said:

rcs1000 said:

williamglenn said:

rcs1000 said:

Nigelb said:

williamglenn said:

Elon Musk is still promoting the AfD:

https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1870488903452676105

The traditional political parties in Germany have utterly failed the people.

🇩🇪 AfD is the only hope for Germany 🇩🇪

Do we really need hourly updates on that ?

It's also bizarre:

German people live longer than Americans, they're less likely to be murdered or medicated or depressed. They are far less likely to be homeless.

America is an amazing place to be rich. Germany is a much, much better place to be lower or middle income.

American statistics are heavily distorted by its demographics so it can be misleading to compare them directly with European countries. For example a *majority* of murder victims are black:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/251877/murder-victims-in-the-us-by-race-ethnicity-and-gender/

Now would you like to check out what the German murder rate is?

It's about 0.8 per 100,000 people.

The murder rate for white, non-Hispanic, in the US is more than 4. (Which is a hell of a lot better than the 30-32 for African Americans.)

But... even picking the lowest likelihood of getting murdered ethnic group, the US homicide rate is 5x the German rate.

So, the murder rate for African Americans in the US is nearly 40x the German rate? Bloody hell. That's incredible.

What's the murder rate for Jews in Germany?

Now? No idea. There has been a rise in anti Semitic attacks since Gaza started but I am not aware of how many involve murder.

What's your point? That the US is better that Nazi Germany?

Well, obviously, the much higher murder rate for Black people in the US, along with much else, is a sign of how the US has failed to deal with the legacies of slavery. This should be a stain upon that nation's conscience.

Since the comparison is between the US and Germany it's natural to think about how Germany has dealt with the Holocaust and its legacy. But then, of course, the Jewish population in Germany is no longer high enough to calculate a statistically meaningful murder rate. So Germany doesn't have to deal with the legacy of its history in as difficult a way as the US does.

So perhaps the US deserves to be cut some slack? What they are trying to do - in recovering from a monumental historical wrong like race-based slavery, without an external power forcing them to face up to it, and without the two sides separating into different polities - is really very difficult, and I don't think it has been achieved by any country before.

Maybe they've done quite well to get as far as they have?

I do cut the US some slack. Indeed, I love the US.

But what I take exception to is the absurd claims of Musk and others that Germany is some kind of hell hole that needs rescuing.

Based on similar reasoning you could have argued against the idea that communist Eastern Europe was some kind of hell hole that needed rescuing.

Or against the idea that Elon Musk is a "he'll heil" that we all need rescuing from.

MaxPB said:

rottenborough said:

Christopher Webb
@cwebbonline
·
16h
Whew! A major Tesla investor, @GerberKawasaki
Ross Gerber, holding over $100 million in Tesla stock, slams Elon Musk for backing a Neo-Nazi-linked party in Germany.

https://x.com/cwebbonline/status/1870325355686531578

Major = 0.007% of outstanding shares apparently.

rcs1000 said:

Gardenwalker said:

rcs1000 said:

Gardenwalker said:

I don’t think I’ve seen anyone mention the superlative “Say Nothing” on here.

Along with “Shogun”, one of the shows of the year.

No love for the (formulaic but fun) Matlock?

I haven’t seen it, but I’m pretty wary of reboots.

Instead, I have introduced my 10 yo daughter to the delights of the original “Murder She Wrote”, which at a distance of 40 years is hilariously camp and kitsch.

Angela Lansbury used to shop at my local grocery store well into her 90s. Sadly she passed a few years ago.

rottenborough said:

Politics UK
@PolitlcsUK
·
12m
🚨 NEW: Ministers are resisting calls to stop Elon Musk donating to Nigel Farage over fears they'll use it to claim Reform is being sabotaged

"We’ll beat Reform by defeating their arguments rather than changing the rules to stop them getting money from Elon Musk"

[
@guardian
]

Luckyguy1983 said:

DavidL said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

ohnotnow said:

Gardenwalker said:

rcs1000 said:

Gardenwalker said:

I don’t think I’ve seen anyone mention the superlative “Say Nothing” on here.

Along with “Shogun”, one of the shows of the year.

No love for the (formulaic but fun) Matlock?

I haven’t seen it, but I’m pretty wary of reboots.

Instead, I have introduced my 10 yo daughter to the delights of the original “Murder She Wrote”, which at a distance of 40 years is hilariously camp and kitsch.

I have this as a cushion cover :

Great fun show. Continued for such a long time too.

Yeah but it was pretty obvious that no one could ever happen upon so many murders. Greatest mass murderer in history. Clear as day.

Still quite watchable I think. The exception being the 'Irish' set ones with all the American actors doing their best cod-Oirish accents.

bondegezou said:

rottenborough said:

Politics UK
@PolitlcsUK
·
12m
🚨 NEW: Ministers are resisting calls to stop Elon Musk donating to Nigel Farage over fears they'll use it to claim Reform is being sabotaged

"We’ll beat Reform by defeating their arguments rather than changing the rules to stop them getting money from Elon Musk"

[
@guardian
]

It's great news for the other parties. Any time Farage says something, you just respond, "That's what Musk paid him to say."

carnforth said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

DavidL said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

ohnotnow said:

Gardenwalker said:

rcs1000 said:

Gardenwalker said:

I don’t think I’ve seen anyone mention the superlative “Say Nothing” on here.

Along with “Shogun”, one of the shows of the year.

No love for the (formulaic but fun) Matlock?

I haven’t seen it, but I’m pretty wary of reboots.

Instead, I have introduced my 10 yo daughter to the delights of the original “Murder She Wrote”, which at a distance of 40 years is hilariously camp and kitsch.

I have this as a cushion cover :

Great fun show. Continued for such a long time too.

Yeah but it was pretty obvious that no one could ever happen upon so many murders. Greatest mass murderer in history. Clear as day.

Still quite watchable I think. The exception being the 'Irish' set ones with all the American actors doing their best cod-Oirish accents.

Plus the wierd one where Lansbury plays a singer in London as well as herself. Actually, most of the episodes involving showpeople are a bit tiresome.

Gardenwalker said:

rcs1000 said:

Gardenwalker said:

I don’t think I’ve seen anyone mention the superlative “Say Nothing” on here.

Along with “Shogun”, one of the shows of the year.

No love for the (formulaic but fun) Matlock?

I haven’t seen it, but I’m pretty wary of reboots.

Instead, I have introduced my 10 yo daughter to the delights of the original “Murder She Wrote”, which at a distance of 40 years is hilariously camp and kitsch.

bondegezou said:

Trump has said in a press conference that he would reverse the current administration’s decision to let Ukraine fire long-range missiles at Russia. I'm sure @williamglenn will be able to explain how this actually helps Ukraine.

bondegezou said:

Trump has said in a press conference that he would reverse the current administration’s decision to let Ukraine fire long-range missiles at Russia. I'm sure @williamglenn will be able to explain how this actually helps Ukraine.

MaxPB said:

Gardenwalker said:

Taz said:

Gardenwalker said:

Taz said:

Client journalism at its best, or worst.

https://x.com/pippacrerar/status/1870499937743745082?s=61

Would you prefer the journalist provided their own sneering commentary?

No

I’d prefer it if the article wasn’t, essentially, a PR puff piece.

Just a silly comment.
It’s just a straightforward account of Reeves’s comments. It’s not unfriendly, but nor is it “puffery”.

So you are simply moaning that of all places the Guardian should print an interview with of all people the Labour Chancellor of the Exchequer.

But surely it's up to a journalist to ask difficult questions around how this stuff will be delivered. It's one thing to a bit off to be printing everything the chancellor says without even simple questions or even a tiny bit of pushback. Otherwise it's just a bit of PR for Rachel from customer service.

LostPassword said:

DavidL said:

LostPassword said:

DavidL said:

rcs1000 said:

williamglenn said:

rcs1000 said:

Nigelb said:

williamglenn said:

Elon Musk is still promoting the AfD:

https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1870488903452676105

The traditional political parties in Germany have utterly failed the people.

🇩🇪 AfD is the only hope for Germany 🇩🇪

Do we really need hourly updates on that ?

It's also bizarre:

German people live longer than Americans, they're less likely to be murdered or medicated or depressed. They are far less likely to be homeless.

America is an amazing place to be rich. Germany is a much, much better place to be lower or middle income.

American statistics are heavily distorted by its demographics so it can be misleading to compare them directly with European countries. For example a *majority* of murder victims are black:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/251877/murder-victims-in-the-us-by-race-ethnicity-and-gender/

Now would you like to check out what the German murder rate is?

It's about 0.8 per 100,000 people.

The murder rate for white, non-Hispanic, in the US is more than 4. (Which is a hell of a lot better than the 30-32 for African Americans.)

But... even picking the lowest likelihood of getting murdered ethnic group, the US homicide rate is 5x the German rate.

So, the murder rate for African Americans in the US is nearly 40x the German rate? Bloody hell. That's incredible.

What's the murder rate for Jews in Germany?

Now? No idea. There has been a rise in anti Semitic attacks since Gaza started but I am not aware of how many involve murder.

What's your point? That the US is better that Nazi Germany?

Well, obviously, the much higher murder rate for Black people in the US, along with much else, is a sign of how the US has failed to deal with the legacies of slavery. This should be a stain upon that nation's conscience.

Since the comparison is between the US and Germany it's natural to think about how Germany has dealt with the Holocaust and its legacy. But then, of course, the Jewish population in Germany is no longer high enough to calculate a statistically meaningful murder rate. So Germany doesn't have to deal with the legacy of its history in as difficult a way as the US does.

So perhaps the US deserves to be cut some slack? What they are trying to do - in recovering from a monumental historical wrong like race-based slavery, without an external power forcing them to face up to it, and without the two sides separating into different polities - is really very difficult, and I don't think it has been achieved by any country before.

Maybe they've done quite well to get as far as they have?

Nigelb said:

Leon said:

IanB2 said:

Leon said:

IanB2 said:

Leon said:

IanB2 said:

Leon said:

IanB2 said:

Leon said:

kjh said:

Leon said:

Nigelb said:

Leon said:

Northern_Al said:

bondegezou said:

Jonathan said:

This horror in Germany.

Just imagine the kind of reaction on social media if that had happened in the U.K. I fear the usual suspects would be gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tension and cleiming conspiracies if challenged.

I hope Germany is spared that.

We’ve already got the usual suspects here gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tensions and claiming conspiracies if challenged. I’m absolutely sure there are German equivalents doing the same on German social media, sadly.

Yes, the convolutions have been remarkable. Last night the usual suspects assumed that the unhinged Saudi doctor carried out the atrocity in the name of jihad. But the narrative had to change slightly when it became reasonably clear that this was unlikely to be the case, and his apparent influences included AfD etc. Not to be defeated, it turns out that it was a double bluff, as he was obviously hiding his jidahism in other guises. Stunning.
Like everybody else, I've no idea what his motives were at the moment.

If you’ve got no idea what his motives are, how come you nonetheless KNOW he’s not anyway influenced by jihadism?

That's a fair point.

Which could also be directed at your "I'm pretty sure that.." comment upthread.

No, because we have clear evidence from an informed source that he was on the run from Saudi criminal charges and “strategically” became an apostate. However this is still not certain, hence my “pretty sure”

Next

And @Northern_Al said 'reasonably clear' and 'unlikely' and 'apparent'. All equally not quite as definite as 'KNOW' which you accused @Northern_Al saying incorrectly and all pretty equivalent as a level of certainty as 'pretty sure'.

Bit of pot and kettle there as you exagerate @Northern_Al words.

How about if I quote your 'pretty sure' as 'KNOW' as you did to @Northern_Al.

Honestly for someone with such a command of the English language and a huge IQ this is pretty poor.

At least PB - after a painful, attenuated period of embarrasingly futile denial - is now acknowledging that I have a "huge IQ"

On a somewhat depressing day, that - I guess - is progress

So huge that you appear to need AI assistance to unpack your shopping.

What ARE you talking about? Are you actually outside my house? I know you are weirdly obsessed with me, and it verges on tragic, but actual stalking takes it to a new level

I have just done some shopping, as it happens, I'm not sure I now require robotic help

Simply reflecting back what you told us here, the other day. Maybe you were too drunk to remember.

You ARE obsessed with me, tho, aren't you? You and a few others. Even if I go away for a wihile, you will vent about me

It's quite pleasing. Especially as I never think about you, ever, apart from when we are directly chatting and I want to wind you up (not hard)

Not me. The level of discussion on this site elevates considerably during those periods when you are away from it.

Yeah. Sure. You’ve made about 726 comments about me to other PBers today alone. But whatever. I’ll just file it under “weirdo”

Save the filing until you've sobered up.

If I ever did quit PB you’d probably go into some weird spasm of mourning. I dominate your thoughts so much it would be, for you, like heartbreak or grief. I imagine you walking around ventnor, crying, as everyone in ventnor tries to avoid you even more than normal

It’s a bit of a burden, frankly. I’ve got a lot on my plate right now - travel, family, new flint projects - but now I have to keep posting on here just so you don’t tip over into psychosis

It's a very good joke, well done.
There is, of course, no one even a fiftieth as obsessed with you, as you.

CHart said:

williamglenn said:

rcs1000 said:

Nigelb said:

williamglenn said:

Elon Musk is still promoting the AfD:

https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1870488903452676105

The traditional political parties in Germany have utterly failed the people.

🇩🇪 AfD is the only hope for Germany 🇩🇪

Do we really need hourly updates on that ?

It's also bizarre:

German people live longer than Americans, they're less likely to be murdered or medicated or depressed. They are far less likely to be homeless.

America is an amazing place to be rich. Germany is a much, much better place to be lower or middle income.

American statistics are heavily distorted by its demographics so it can be misleading to compare them directly with European countries. For example a *majority* of murder victims are black:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/251877/murder-victims-in-the-us-by-race-ethnicity-and-gender/

Yes and if you go out at night in America there isnt the agrro you find in much of the uk. Its actually more civilized.

viewcode said:

rottenborough said:

Politics UK
@PolitlcsUK
·
12m
🚨 NEW: Ministers are resisting calls to stop Elon Musk donating to Nigel Farage over fears they'll use it to claim Reform is being sabotaged

"We’ll beat Reform by defeating their arguments rather than changing the rules to stop them getting money from Elon Musk"

[
@guardian
]

No. You beat parties by cutting them off from their funding and from their ability to function. And then you kick them when they are down. What is this sudden attack of gallantry? You shouldn't be being nice to Musk, you should be turning up in his bedroom at 3am and telling them not to fuck with us. Honestly, stupid parties (shakes my head)

Shecorns88 said:

Sean_F said:

viewcode said:

rottenborough said:

Politics UK
@PolitlcsUK
·
12m
🚨 NEW: Ministers are resisting calls to stop Elon Musk donating to Nigel Farage over fears they'll use it to claim Reform is being sabotaged

"We’ll beat Reform by defeating their arguments rather than changing the rules to stop them getting money from Elon Musk"

[
@guardian
]

No. You beat parties by cutting them off from their funding and from their ability to function. And then you kick them when they are down. What is this sudden attack of gallantry? You shouldn't be being nice to Musk, you should be turning up in his bedroom at 3am and telling them not to fuck with us. Honestly, stupid parties (shakes my head)

Why stop there? Why not just arrest or shoot, supporters of Reform?

Our leaders consider it entirely acceptable for Sinn Fein to receive vast amounts of money from abroad. Why should Reform be treated differently?

Next time Farage and Musk incite riots on the streets off Southport, Tamworth, Rotherham, Plymouth etc it might be wise for Starmer to call for other democratic parties to call a state of emergency and to attack these fascists with the kind of response they deserve.

Fire bombing a hotel with 400 men, women and children in it deserves life, not 3 years.

The instigators like Farage, Musk, Robinson, Oajshott and Co should be arrested and charged with Treason.

Leon said:

Sitrep City of London

After the Lost in Light exhibitions (genuinely beautiful, modern art at its best) we walked all the way through the City from Shoreditch to Monument, to a nice dinner at the Wolseley (the scampi are fantastic)

It it such a world away from anywhere else in the UK, or indeed Europe. It feels remarkably rich, swaggering, prosperous and unique. Skyscrapers are still climbing, the pubs were full, the streets were festive. No city in Europe matches it for this in-the-moment verve mixed with historicity and modernity, Paris isn't even close, I am not quite sure NYC has the buzz despite being wealthier and more powerful (because the City has the ancient meets now vibe, absent in NYC). The City does NOT feel like a place in decline, it feels like the financial capital of a massively confident world power

The challenge, as ever in the UK, is to spread that City of London buzz - or some of it - across the UK (or at least bits of it). How long have we been trying to do this?! So far we have failed. Perhaps it is impossible

rottenborough said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

kinabalu said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

An irony of the fear about Musk's agenda is that what he really wants to do is sell us loads of his ugly electric cars. The econutters amongst us should be ecstatic.

Selling electric cars requires promoting far right politics in Germany?

No, the theory would be that Elon has identified the political trend, and is ingratiating himself with the future rulers of the West (as he has done with Trump). It's very clever really. Otherwise his business interests might have been compromised severely. For example, the ban on petrol and diesel cars could be shitcanned.

Nah, I think he just gets high on the kicks of seeing what he can get away with next.

Move fast and break things is the mantra.

Leon said:

Sitrep City of London

After the Lost in Light exhibitions (genuinely beautiful, modern art at its best) we walked all the way through the City from Shoreditch to Monument, to a nice dinner at the Wolseley (the scampi are fantastic)

It it such a world away from anywhere else in the UK, or indeed Europe. It feels remarkably rich, swaggering, prosperous and unique. Skyscrapers are still climbing, the pubs were full, the streets were festive. No city in Europe matches it for this in-the-moment verve mixed with historicity and modernity, Paris isn't even close, I am not quite sure NYC has the buzz despite being wealthier and more powerful (because the City has the ancient meets now vibe, absent in NYC). The City does NOT feel like a place in decline, it feels like the financial capital of a massively confident world power

The challenge, as ever in the UK, is to spread that City of London buzz - or some of it - across the UK (or at least bits of it). How long have we been trying to do this?! So far we have failed. Perhaps it is impossible

Leon said:

I can also report after today that my sometimes mega-shy older daughter, down from her first term at St Andrews, is apparently having a lovely time, has made a bunch of great friends, and goes "rewilding" every weekend (I've no idea what this entails)

So thankyou Scotland, you are showing my eldest a good time

And my younger daughter is also swooningly content and in love with a handsome Brazilian pianist and they are now shacked up together in Adelaide, where they play musical riffs in their tiny apartment - him piano, her guitar - when they aren't copping off

That's it, isn't it? That's the best present you can get as a parent. Happy, healthy children

Praise be to the Lord

Leon said:

rottenborough said:

Leon said:

Sitrep City of London

After the Lost in Light exhibitions (genuinely beautiful, modern art at its best) we walked all the way through the City from Shoreditch to Monument, to a nice dinner at the Wolseley (the scampi are fantastic)

It it such a world away from anywhere else in the UK, or indeed Europe. It feels remarkably rich, swaggering, prosperous and unique. Skyscrapers are still climbing, the pubs were full, the streets were festive. No city in Europe matches it for this in-the-moment verve mixed with historicity and modernity, Paris isn't even close, I am not quite sure NYC has the buzz despite being wealthier and more powerful (because the City has the ancient meets now vibe, absent in NYC). The City does NOT feel like a place in decline, it feels like the financial capital of a massively confident world power

The challenge, as ever in the UK, is to spread that City of London buzz - or some of it - across the UK (or at least bits of it). How long have we been trying to do this?! So far we have failed. Perhaps it is impossible

Seems a long time ago since, erm probably last week, when you said emphatically this country is finished and you are moving abroad.

Marvellous thing alcohol.

More seriously, why don't we have our Barcelona? We need more devolution.

Yep. Apparently Manchester is OK but I find it hard to believe it is a UK Barcelona

The UK desperately needs four or five regional cities with some of the buzz of the City of London: Bristol, Edinburgh or Glasgae, Brum, and maybe and especially some northern multi-city with integrated contactless transport: Liverpool, Salford, Manc, Leeds, Sheffield - this last cluster could be the Osaka of the UK. This is where the density of our population and the small size of the UKis a massive ADVANTAGE - we have the geographical clustering and the people

I thought Labour would do this. It was my big hope alongside massive NHS reform. But alas. Nada

MaxPB said:

Leon said:

On another note - I did a post on a subreddit the other day, and it was read by..... two million people

This is not so aberrant, either. I've had quite a few posts hit the 100,000s, even high 100,000s

This is not to blow my own trumpet, or even to get my own horn section into the recording studio, it's a measure of how powerful Reddit has become. We ignore it as we discuss, X, Facebook. Insta, and all the weirdo Woke creepy sandal-wearing pervs on Bluesky, and yet Reddit has quietly become intensely influential

It has been for ages, in 2016 it was r/thedonald which really helped Trump supporters organise and coordinate their messaging. Again while Hilary was doing traditional media Bernie and Trump were harnessing social media, Bernie almost did it too even with the whole Democratic establishment sabotaging his campaign and fixing it for Hilary. In retrospect it was such a huge error because Bernie probably would have beaten Trump.

Luckyguy1983 said:

Leon said:

I can also report after today that my sometimes mega-shy older daughter, down from her first term at St Andrews, is apparently having a lovely time, has made a bunch of great friends, and goes "rewilding" every weekend (I've no idea what this entails)

So thankyou Scotland, you are showing my eldest a good time

And my younger daughter is also swooningly content and in love with a handsome Brazilian pianist and they are now shacked up together in Adelaide, where they play musical riffs in their tiny apartment - him piano, her guitar - when they aren't copping off

That's it, isn't it? That's the best present you can get as a parent. Happy, healthy children

Praise be to the Lord

St Andrews is a nice place for a shy kid. Nice crowd, nice pubs and cafes - not too big city-ish. It's a bit like Guildford-on-sea-in-Scotland. Rewilding at the weekend sounds shit though. Let's hope she grows out of it.

Nigelb said:

Leon said:

IanB2 said:

Leon said:

IanB2 said:

Leon said:

IanB2 said:

Leon said:

IanB2 said:

Leon said:

kjh said:

Leon said:

Nigelb said:

Leon said:

Northern_Al said:

bondegezou said:

Jonathan said:

This horror in Germany.

Just imagine the kind of reaction on social media if that had happened in the U.K. I fear the usual suspects would be gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tension and cleiming conspiracies if challenged.

I hope Germany is spared that.

We’ve already got the usual suspects here gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tensions and claiming conspiracies if challenged. I’m absolutely sure there are German equivalents doing the same on German social media, sadly.

Yes, the convolutions have been remarkable. Last night the usual suspects assumed that the unhinged Saudi doctor carried out the atrocity in the name of jihad. But the narrative had to change slightly when it became reasonably clear that this was unlikely to be the case, and his apparent influences included AfD etc. Not to be defeated, it turns out that it was a double bluff, as he was obviously hiding his jidahism in other guises. Stunning.
Like everybody else, I've no idea what his motives were at the moment.

If you’ve got no idea what his motives are, how come you nonetheless KNOW he’s not anyway influenced by jihadism?

That's a fair point.

Which could also be directed at your "I'm pretty sure that.." comment upthread.

No, because we have clear evidence from an informed source that he was on the run from Saudi criminal charges and “strategically” became an apostate. However this is still not certain, hence my “pretty sure”

Next

And @Northern_Al said 'reasonably clear' and 'unlikely' and 'apparent'. All equally not quite as definite as 'KNOW' which you accused @Northern_Al saying incorrectly and all pretty equivalent as a level of certainty as 'pretty sure'.

Bit of pot and kettle there as you exagerate @Northern_Al words.

How about if I quote your 'pretty sure' as 'KNOW' as you did to @Northern_Al.

Honestly for someone with such a command of the English language and a huge IQ this is pretty poor.

At least PB - after a painful, attenuated period of embarrasingly futile denial - is now acknowledging that I have a "huge IQ"

On a somewhat depressing day, that - I guess - is progress

So huge that you appear to need AI assistance to unpack your shopping.

What ARE you talking about? Are you actually outside my house? I know you are weirdly obsessed with me, and it verges on tragic, but actual stalking takes it to a new level

I have just done some shopping, as it happens, I'm not sure I now require robotic help

Simply reflecting back what you told us here, the other day. Maybe you were too drunk to remember.

You ARE obsessed with me, tho, aren't you? You and a few others. Even if I go away for a wihile, you will vent about me

It's quite pleasing. Especially as I never think about you, ever, apart from when we are directly chatting and I want to wind you up (not hard)

Not me. The level of discussion on this site elevates considerably during those periods when you are away from it.

Yeah. Sure. You’ve made about 726 comments about me to other PBers today alone. But whatever. I’ll just file it under “weirdo”

Save the filing until you've sobered up.

If I ever did quit PB you’d probably go into some weird spasm of mourning. I dominate your thoughts so much it would be, for you, like heartbreak or grief. I imagine you walking around ventnor, crying, as everyone in ventnor tries to avoid you even more than normal

It’s a bit of a burden, frankly. I’ve got a lot on my plate right now - travel, family, new flint projects - but now I have to keep posting on here just so you don’t tip over into psychosis

It's a very good joke, well done.
There is, of course, no one even a fiftieth as obsessed with you, as you.

Shecorns88 said:

Sean_F said:

viewcode said:

rottenborough said:

Politics UK
@PolitlcsUK
·
12m
🚨 NEW: Ministers are resisting calls to stop Elon Musk donating to Nigel Farage over fears they'll use it to claim Reform is being sabotaged

"We’ll beat Reform by defeating their arguments rather than changing the rules to stop them getting money from Elon Musk"

[
@guardian
]

No. You beat parties by cutting them off from their funding and from their ability to function. And then you kick them when they are down. What is this sudden attack of gallantry? You shouldn't be being nice to Musk, you should be turning up in his bedroom at 3am and telling them not to fuck with us. Honestly, stupid parties (shakes my head)

Why stop there? Why not just arrest or shoot, supporters of Reform?

Our leaders consider it entirely acceptable for Sinn Fein to receive vast amounts of money from abroad. Why should Reform be treated differently?

Next time Farage and Musk incite riots on the streets off Southport, Tamworth, Rotherham, Plymouth etc it might be wise for Starmer to call for other democratic parties to call a state of emergency and to attack these fascists with the kind of response they deserve.

Fire bombing a hotel with 400 men, women and children in it deserves life, not 3 years.

The instigators like Farage, Musk, Robinson, Oajshott and Co should be arrested and charged with Treason.

bondegezou said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Sean_F said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Gallowgate said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Gardenwalker said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Gardenwalker said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Gardenwalker said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Gallowgate said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

rcs1000 said:

Leon said:

Foxy said:

williamglenn said:

kjh said:

williamglenn said:

kjh said:

williamglenn said:

kjh said:

williamglenn said:

kjh said:

Leon said:

Northern_Al said:

bondegezou said:

Jonathan said:

This horror in Germany.

Just imagine the kind of reaction on social media if that had happened in the U.K. I fear the usual suspects would be gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tension and cleiming conspiracies if challenged.

I hope Germany is spared that.

We’ve already got the usual suspects here gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tensions and claiming conspiracies if challenged. I’m absolutely sure there are German equivalents doing the same on German social media, sadly.

Yes, the convolutions have been remarkable. Last night the usual suspects assumed that the unhinged Saudi doctor carried out the atrocity in the name of jihad. But the narrative had to change slightly when it became reasonably clear that this was unlikely to be the case, and his apparent influences included AfD etc. Not to be defeated, it turns out that it was a double bluff, as he was obviously hiding his jidahism in other guises. Stunning.
Like everybody else, I've no idea what his motives were at the moment.

If you’ve got no idea what his motives are, how come you nonetheless KNOW he’s not anyway influenced by jihadism?

Rather than jumping to conclusions here and on twitter and where ever else, which can and does stimulate reactions, some of which can be quite serious eg riot, arson, murder, etc why not just wait for the facts to become clear and then one can be justifiably outraged at whatever is the cause, whether that be jihadi, fascist or whatever tenancies.

At the end of the day it was a failure of the state to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence. Attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game.

You don't know that. You are also jumping to conclusions. He could be a jihadist, he could be a right wing zealot or as in many cases in the past it could simply be someone will mental problems. However rushing to conclusions of either the first two often starts riots, arson and even murder.

Yes I do know that, and so do you. You seem to be in denial.

In the very unlikely event I am ever tried for something I hope to god you are not on the jury. I like to rely on facts and not internet trolls.

My comment was that the state had failed to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence and that attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game. It's a fact that an act of inter-ethnic violence occured and it's a fact that the state failed to prevent it.

Again you can't know that. It might well be so. It only happened yesterday and you are just reading posts from people you have no idea you can rely on. The guy clearly has a conflicting background and actions. How do you know he isn't schizophrenic or suffering from some other mental issues?

You just don't know, yet we tolerate people stirring up potential racist violence who don't have the facts. Why can't people wait for the facts.

The only way in which it could not be true is if they've apprehended the wrong man, which seems highly unlikely. For whatever reason, this person developed a murderous rage against Germans - whether this was islamism, anti-islamism or mental issues doesn't change this fact. It also doesn't change the fact that the authorities were aware of it and failed to act.

In particular Twitter did nothing about his postings, which were in plain sight, and indeed still are.

Take this one from August this year, which seems very much not Islamist:

https://x.com/DrTalebJawad/status/1821207118617203097

Indeed so far as I can understand his train of thought it is not that he wants to Islamise Germany, but that Germany is deporting Saudi asylum seekers, particularly women, back to Saudi to be imprisoned or killed.

It’s impossible to follow his train of thought. He’s made some comments in Arabic which directly contradict stuff he’s said in English. I think he might simply be a criminal nutter who PROBABLY faked apostasy to avoid extradition, and he has developed a bizarre, murderous grudge against Germany and Germans


If he was that anti-Islam or Saudi surely he would have attacked a mosque or an embassy

Instead he attacked a Christmas market?! He also did it on the anniversary - I think - of a known jihadi attack against a German Xmas market

Remember kids:

If a white Christian kills a bunch of people, it's because he's mentally ill.

If a brown Muslim does it, it's because he's motivated by Islam.

I am not sure why you find that dichotomy so strange. Christianity is a faith based around the central tenets of forgiveness and loving thine enemies. Killing is strictly prohibited in the faith. Christians have been warlike peoples but they are not commanded in the Bible to spread their faith at the point of the sword, and it has been many hundreds of years since there were wars to spread Christianity. There is no sect of Christianity that advocates the violent spreading of the faith. None of that is true of Islam.

The absolute state of this comment

Great riposte numnuts.

Superlative counter-swipe!

This is why we keep coming back to PB.

Did it deserve the time to write something better?

There was no attempt to engage or contradict the point. Just an expression of the initial post apparently being beyond the pale for unknown reasons.

At least Bondegoozoo took time to Google "list of violent passages from the Bible".

Well, surely numbnuts has a b in it, for a start.

OK, and?

I thought a certain pedantry was encouraged on this forum.

Your pendantry (and Taz's) is welcome.

Dipshits wasting my time and everyone elses with asinine wastes of characters in response to reasonably argued lists of points I have to be in the mood for.

*two glasses of red wine at dinner - please excuse general illiteracy

Your comment was so ignorant on every possible level that it did not merit a response beyond what I posted. You are usually a reasonable a rational poster but that was simply xenophobic dross.

I'm sorry, but it is you who is showing ignorance. Christianity has frequently been critiqued for it's lack of 'killer instinct' - for example blamed for making the Romans lose their cruel edge when they converted. Criticised by Hitler for its namby pamby attitude. Yes there's some fire and brimstone, particularly in the OT, but the Gospels, which are the overridingly important part of the Bible, because Christ was the fulfillment of the Old Testmanent, espouses a doctrine of love and forgiveness, and of faith being an inner grace, which allows 'rendering unto ceasar' - not demanding the violent overthrow of non-Christian authority.

Islam was developed by someone familiar with Christianity and is a response to it and in many ways a rebellion against it. The spread of Islam by the sword is advocated within the faith. Also Islam (which means submission) is all about the outward observance of faith, not about it being an inner matter.

The two faiths are absolutely different in their philosphical attitude to force, and that is why I made the comment I did. If you want to come at me with an interpretation that contradicts what I said, that might teach me something, go for it. If all you've got is a casual dismissal based on your own utter ignorance and assumptions of a lazy politically-correct position, expect to be casually dismissed in return.

It's an interesting point. There have been any number of brutal Christians and people who were willing to spread Christianity by force.

But, you get people like Gibbon, condemning Christianity as weak, cowardly, and soft, undermining a society's ability to defend itself, a view that the Nazis entirely bought into. Hitler said it was a disaster that Charles Martel won the Battle of Tours. To Himmler, Islam was "a fine religion for a soldier."

I don't think Christianity has been forcibly spread for a number of centuries. I feel the conquistadors, cowboys, colonists and various white people grabbing other peoples' lands pretty much used Christianity as a bit of philosophical presentation for what was simply a money-grab.

Empress Elizabeth of Russia was forcibly converting Muslims and Jews in the 18th century, so that’s 3 centuries ago.

Native Americans and slaves in the Americas were often forcibly converted to Christianity. There was forced conversion of slaves in the 19th century US. That’s only 2 centuries ago.

The Ustashe forcibly converted Orthodox believers to Catholicism in WW2, although that’s one Christian group to another.

Leon said:

Sitrep City of London

After the Lost in Light exhibitions (genuinely beautiful, modern art at its best) we walked all the way through the City from Shoreditch to Monument, to a nice dinner at the Wolseley (the scampi are fantastic)

It it such a world away from anywhere else in the UK, or indeed Europe. It feels remarkably rich, swaggering, prosperous and unique. Skyscrapers are still climbing, the pubs were full, the streets were festive. No city in Europe matches it for this in-the-moment verve mixed with historicity and modernity, Paris isn't even close, I am not quite sure NYC has the buzz despite being wealthier and more powerful (because the City has the ancient meets now vibe, absent in NYC). The City does NOT feel like a place in decline, it feels like the financial capital of a massively confident world power

The challenge, as ever in the UK, is to spread that City of London buzz - or some of it - across the UK (or at least bits of it). How long have we been trying to do this?! So far we have failed. Perhaps it is impossible

bondegezou said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Sean_F said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Gallowgate said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Gardenwalker said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Gardenwalker said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Gardenwalker said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Gallowgate said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

rcs1000 said:

Leon said:

Foxy said:

williamglenn said:

kjh said:

williamglenn said:

kjh said:

williamglenn said:

kjh said:

williamglenn said:

kjh said:

Leon said:

Northern_Al said:

bondegezou said:

Jonathan said:

This horror in Germany.

Just imagine the kind of reaction on social media if that had happened in the U.K. I fear the usual suspects would be gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tension and cleiming conspiracies if challenged.

I hope Germany is spared that.

We’ve already got the usual suspects here gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tensions and claiming conspiracies if challenged. I’m absolutely sure there are German equivalents doing the same on German social media, sadly.

Yes, the convolutions have been remarkable. Last night the usual suspects assumed that the unhinged Saudi doctor carried out the atrocity in the name of jihad. But the narrative had to change slightly when it became reasonably clear that this was unlikely to be the case, and his apparent influences included AfD etc. Not to be defeated, it turns out that it was a double bluff, as he was obviously hiding his jidahism in other guises. Stunning.
Like everybody else, I've no idea what his motives were at the moment.

If you’ve got no idea what his motives are, how come you nonetheless KNOW he’s not anyway influenced by jihadism?

Rather than jumping to conclusions here and on twitter and where ever else, which can and does stimulate reactions, some of which can be quite serious eg riot, arson, murder, etc why not just wait for the facts to become clear and then one can be justifiably outraged at whatever is the cause, whether that be jihadi, fascist or whatever tenancies.

At the end of the day it was a failure of the state to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence. Attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game.

You don't know that. You are also jumping to conclusions. He could be a jihadist, he could be a right wing zealot or as in many cases in the past it could simply be someone will mental problems. However rushing to conclusions of either the first two often starts riots, arson and even murder.

Yes I do know that, and so do you. You seem to be in denial.

In the very unlikely event I am ever tried for something I hope to god you are not on the jury. I like to rely on facts and not internet trolls.

My comment was that the state had failed to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence and that attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game. It's a fact that an act of inter-ethnic violence occured and it's a fact that the state failed to prevent it.

Again you can't know that. It might well be so. It only happened yesterday and you are just reading posts from people you have no idea you can rely on. The guy clearly has a conflicting background and actions. How do you know he isn't schizophrenic or suffering from some other mental issues?

You just don't know, yet we tolerate people stirring up potential racist violence who don't have the facts. Why can't people wait for the facts.

The only way in which it could not be true is if they've apprehended the wrong man, which seems highly unlikely. For whatever reason, this person developed a murderous rage against Germans - whether this was islamism, anti-islamism or mental issues doesn't change this fact. It also doesn't change the fact that the authorities were aware of it and failed to act.

In particular Twitter did nothing about his postings, which were in plain sight, and indeed still are.

Take this one from August this year, which seems very much not Islamist:

https://x.com/DrTalebJawad/status/1821207118617203097

Indeed so far as I can understand his train of thought it is not that he wants to Islamise Germany, but that Germany is deporting Saudi asylum seekers, particularly women, back to Saudi to be imprisoned or killed.

It’s impossible to follow his train of thought. He’s made some comments in Arabic which directly contradict stuff he’s said in English. I think he might simply be a criminal nutter who PROBABLY faked apostasy to avoid extradition, and he has developed a bizarre, murderous grudge against Germany and Germans


If he was that anti-Islam or Saudi surely he would have attacked a mosque or an embassy

Instead he attacked a Christmas market?! He also did it on the anniversary - I think - of a known jihadi attack against a German Xmas market

Remember kids:

If a white Christian kills a bunch of people, it's because he's mentally ill.

If a brown Muslim does it, it's because he's motivated by Islam.

I am not sure why you find that dichotomy so strange. Christianity is a faith based around the central tenets of forgiveness and loving thine enemies. Killing is strictly prohibited in the faith. Christians have been warlike peoples but they are not commanded in the Bible to spread their faith at the point of the sword, and it has been many hundreds of years since there were wars to spread Christianity. There is no sect of Christianity that advocates the violent spreading of the faith. None of that is true of Islam.

The absolute state of this comment

Great riposte numnuts.

Superlative counter-swipe!

This is why we keep coming back to PB.

Did it deserve the time to write something better?

There was no attempt to engage or contradict the point. Just an expression of the initial post apparently being beyond the pale for unknown reasons.

At least Bondegoozoo took time to Google "list of violent passages from the Bible".

Well, surely numbnuts has a b in it, for a start.

OK, and?

I thought a certain pedantry was encouraged on this forum.

Your pendantry (and Taz's) is welcome.

Dipshits wasting my time and everyone elses with asinine wastes of characters in response to reasonably argued lists of points I have to be in the mood for.

*two glasses of red wine at dinner - please excuse general illiteracy

Your comment was so ignorant on every possible level that it did not merit a response beyond what I posted. You are usually a reasonable a rational poster but that was simply xenophobic dross.

I'm sorry, but it is you who is showing ignorance. Christianity has frequently been critiqued for it's lack of 'killer instinct' - for example blamed for making the Romans lose their cruel edge when they converted. Criticised by Hitler for its namby pamby attitude. Yes there's some fire and brimstone, particularly in the OT, but the Gospels, which are the overridingly important part of the Bible, because Christ was the fulfillment of the Old Testmanent, espouses a doctrine of love and forgiveness, and of faith being an inner grace, which allows 'rendering unto ceasar' - not demanding the violent overthrow of non-Christian authority.

Islam was developed by someone familiar with Christianity and is a response to it and in many ways a rebellion against it. The spread of Islam by the sword is advocated within the faith. Also Islam (which means submission) is all about the outward observance of faith, not about it being an inner matter.

The two faiths are absolutely different in their philosphical attitude to force, and that is why I made the comment I did. If you want to come at me with an interpretation that contradicts what I said, that might teach me something, go for it. If all you've got is a casual dismissal based on your own utter ignorance and assumptions of a lazy politically-correct position, expect to be casually dismissed in return.

It's an interesting point. There have been any number of brutal Christians and people who were willing to spread Christianity by force.

But, you get people like Gibbon, condemning Christianity as weak, cowardly, and soft, undermining a society's ability to defend itself, a view that the Nazis entirely bought into. Hitler said it was a disaster that Charles Martel won the Battle of Tours. To Himmler, Islam was "a fine religion for a soldier."

I don't think Christianity has been forcibly spread for a number of centuries. I feel the conquistadors, cowboys, colonists and various white people grabbing other peoples' lands pretty much used Christianity as a bit of philosophical presentation for what was simply a money-grab.

Empress Elizabeth of Russia was forcibly converting Muslims and Jews in the 18th century, so that’s 3 centuries ago.

Native Americans and slaves in the Americas were often forcibly converted to Christianity. There was forced conversion of slaves in the 19th century US. That’s only 2 centuries ago.

The Ustashe forcibly converted Orthodox believers to Catholicism in WW2, although that’s one Christian group to another.

Luckyguy1983 said:

Leon said:

I can also report after today that my sometimes mega-shy older daughter, down from her first term at St Andrews, is apparently having a lovely time, has made a bunch of great friends, and goes "rewilding" every weekend (I've no idea what this entails)

So thankyou Scotland, you are showing my eldest a good time

And my younger daughter is also swooningly content and in love with a handsome Brazilian pianist and they are now shacked up together in Adelaide, where they play musical riffs in their tiny apartment - him piano, her guitar - when they aren't copping off

That's it, isn't it? That's the best present you can get as a parent. Happy, healthy children

Praise be to the Lord

St Andrews is a nice place for a shy kid. Nice crowd, nice pubs and cafes - not too big city-ish. It's a bit like Guildford-on-sea-in-Scotland. Rewilding at the weekend sounds shit though. Let's hope she grows out of it.

Nigelb said:

Leon said:

Sitrep City of London

After the Lost in Light exhibitions (genuinely beautiful, modern art at its best) we walked all the way through the City from Shoreditch to Monument, to a nice dinner at the Wolseley (the scampi are fantastic)

It it such a world away from anywhere else in the UK, or indeed Europe. It feels remarkably rich, swaggering, prosperous and unique. Skyscrapers are still climbing, the pubs were full, the streets were festive. No city in Europe matches it for this in-the-moment verve mixed with historicity and modernity, Paris isn't even close, I am not quite sure NYC has the buzz despite being wealthier and more powerful (because the City has the ancient meets now vibe, absent in NYC). The City does NOT feel like a place in decline, it feels like the financial capital of a massively confident world power

The challenge, as ever in the UK, is to spread that City of London buzz - or some of it - across the UK (or at least bits of it). How long have we been trying to do this?! So far we have failed. Perhaps it is impossible

Have we ever actually tried ?

Andy_JS said:

Happy birthday to me today.

bondegezou said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Sean_F said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Gallowgate said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Gardenwalker said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Gardenwalker said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Gardenwalker said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Gallowgate said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

rcs1000 said:

Leon said:

Foxy said:

williamglenn said:

kjh said:

williamglenn said:

kjh said:

williamglenn said:

kjh said:

williamglenn said:

kjh said:

Leon said:

Northern_Al said:

bondegezou said:

Jonathan said:

This horror in Germany.

Just imagine the kind of reaction on social media if that had happened in the U.K. I fear the usual suspects would be gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tension and cleiming conspiracies if challenged.

I hope Germany is spared that.

We’ve already got the usual suspects here gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tensions and claiming conspiracies if challenged. I’m absolutely sure there are German equivalents doing the same on German social media, sadly.

Yes, the convolutions have been remarkable. Last night the usual suspects assumed that the unhinged Saudi doctor carried out the atrocity in the name of jihad. But the narrative had to change slightly when it became reasonably clear that this was unlikely to be the case, and his apparent influences included AfD etc. Not to be defeated, it turns out that it was a double bluff, as he was obviously hiding his jidahism in other guises. Stunning.
Like everybody else, I've no idea what his motives were at the moment.

If you’ve got no idea what his motives are, how come you nonetheless KNOW he’s not anyway influenced by jihadism?

Rather than jumping to conclusions here and on twitter and where ever else, which can and does stimulate reactions, some of which can be quite serious eg riot, arson, murder, etc why not just wait for the facts to become clear and then one can be justifiably outraged at whatever is the cause, whether that be jihadi, fascist or whatever tenancies.

At the end of the day it was a failure of the state to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence. Attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game.

You don't know that. You are also jumping to conclusions. He could be a jihadist, he could be a right wing zealot or as in many cases in the past it could simply be someone will mental problems. However rushing to conclusions of either the first two often starts riots, arson and even murder.

Yes I do know that, and so do you. You seem to be in denial.

In the very unlikely event I am ever tried for something I hope to god you are not on the jury. I like to rely on facts and not internet trolls.

My comment was that the state had failed to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence and that attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game. It's a fact that an act of inter-ethnic violence occured and it's a fact that the state failed to prevent it.

Again you can't know that. It might well be so. It only happened yesterday and you are just reading posts from people you have no idea you can rely on. The guy clearly has a conflicting background and actions. How do you know he isn't schizophrenic or suffering from some other mental issues?

You just don't know, yet we tolerate people stirring up potential racist violence who don't have the facts. Why can't people wait for the facts.

The only way in which it could not be true is if they've apprehended the wrong man, which seems highly unlikely. For whatever reason, this person developed a murderous rage against Germans - whether this was islamism, anti-islamism or mental issues doesn't change this fact. It also doesn't change the fact that the authorities were aware of it and failed to act.

In particular Twitter did nothing about his postings, which were in plain sight, and indeed still are.

Take this one from August this year, which seems very much not Islamist:

https://x.com/DrTalebJawad/status/1821207118617203097

Indeed so far as I can understand his train of thought it is not that he wants to Islamise Germany, but that Germany is deporting Saudi asylum seekers, particularly women, back to Saudi to be imprisoned or killed.

It’s impossible to follow his train of thought. He’s made some comments in Arabic which directly contradict stuff he’s said in English. I think he might simply be a criminal nutter who PROBABLY faked apostasy to avoid extradition, and he has developed a bizarre, murderous grudge against Germany and Germans


If he was that anti-Islam or Saudi surely he would have attacked a mosque or an embassy

Instead he attacked a Christmas market?! He also did it on the anniversary - I think - of a known jihadi attack against a German Xmas market

Remember kids:

If a white Christian kills a bunch of people, it's because he's mentally ill.

If a brown Muslim does it, it's because he's motivated by Islam.

I am not sure why you find that dichotomy so strange. Christianity is a faith based around the central tenets of forgiveness and loving thine enemies. Killing is strictly prohibited in the faith. Christians have been warlike peoples but they are not commanded in the Bible to spread their faith at the point of the sword, and it has been many hundreds of years since there were wars to spread Christianity. There is no sect of Christianity that advocates the violent spreading of the faith. None of that is true of Islam.

The absolute state of this comment

Great riposte numnuts.

Superlative counter-swipe!

This is why we keep coming back to PB.

Did it deserve the time to write something better?

There was no attempt to engage or contradict the point. Just an expression of the initial post apparently being beyond the pale for unknown reasons.

At least Bondegoozoo took time to Google "list of violent passages from the Bible".

Well, surely numbnuts has a b in it, for a start.

OK, and?

I thought a certain pedantry was encouraged on this forum.

Your pendantry (and Taz's) is welcome.

Dipshits wasting my time and everyone elses with asinine wastes of characters in response to reasonably argued lists of points I have to be in the mood for.

*two glasses of red wine at dinner - please excuse general illiteracy

Your comment was so ignorant on every possible level that it did not merit a response beyond what I posted. You are usually a reasonable a rational poster but that was simply xenophobic dross.

I'm sorry, but it is you who is showing ignorance. Christianity has frequently been critiqued for it's lack of 'killer instinct' - for example blamed for making the Romans lose their cruel edge when they converted. Criticised by Hitler for its namby pamby attitude. Yes there's some fire and brimstone, particularly in the OT, but the Gospels, which are the overridingly important part of the Bible, because Christ was the fulfillment of the Old Testmanent, espouses a doctrine of love and forgiveness, and of faith being an inner grace, which allows 'rendering unto ceasar' - not demanding the violent overthrow of non-Christian authority.

Islam was developed by someone familiar with Christianity and is a response to it and in many ways a rebellion against it. The spread of Islam by the sword is advocated within the faith. Also Islam (which means submission) is all about the outward observance of faith, not about it being an inner matter.

The two faiths are absolutely different in their philosphical attitude to force, and that is why I made the comment I did. If you want to come at me with an interpretation that contradicts what I said, that might teach me something, go for it. If all you've got is a casual dismissal based on your own utter ignorance and assumptions of a lazy politically-correct position, expect to be casually dismissed in return.

It's an interesting point. There have been any number of brutal Christians and people who were willing to spread Christianity by force.

But, you get people like Gibbon, condemning Christianity as weak, cowardly, and soft, undermining a society's ability to defend itself, a view that the Nazis entirely bought into. Hitler said it was a disaster that Charles Martel won the Battle of Tours. To Himmler, Islam was "a fine religion for a soldier."

I don't think Christianity has been forcibly spread for a number of centuries. I feel the conquistadors, cowboys, colonists and various white people grabbing other peoples' lands pretty much used Christianity as a bit of philosophical presentation for what was simply a money-grab.

Empress Elizabeth of Russia was forcibly converting Muslims and Jews in the 18th century, so that’s 3 centuries ago.

Native Americans and slaves in the Americas were often forcibly converted to Christianity. There was forced conversion of slaves in the 19th century US. That’s only 2 centuries ago.

The Ustashe forcibly converted Orthodox believers to Catholicism in WW2, although that’s one Christian group to another.

TOPPING said:

Can't call the fight. Fury will think he can overwhelm Usyk but Usyk's camp will know this so will adapt. I've backed the draw at 19.5 (bf).

TimS said:

Carnyx said:

gettingbetter said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Leon said:

I can also report after today that my sometimes mega-shy older daughter, down from her first term at St Andrews, is apparently having a lovely time, has made a bunch of great friends, and goes "rewilding" every weekend (I've no idea what this entails)

So thankyou Scotland, you are showing my eldest a good time

And my younger daughter is also swooningly content and in love with a handsome Brazilian pianist and they are now shacked up together in Adelaide, where they play musical riffs in their tiny apartment - him piano, her guitar - when they aren't copping off

That's it, isn't it? That's the best present you can get as a parent. Happy, healthy children

Praise be to the Lord

St Andrews is a nice place for a shy kid. Nice crowd, nice pubs and cafes - not too big city-ish. It's a bit like Guildford-on-sea-in-Scotland. Rewilding at the weekend sounds shit though. Let's hope she grows out of it.

I think the rewilding is great idea tp get some fresh air and help the environment. I imagine she is planting trees and hedges, reintroducing wolves and culling deer.

Eating them I hope. We hav e just had mallard duck breasts pan fried with shallots and home grown blackcurrants for dinner.

We decided to have goose this year after Capon last time. I just bought the Christmas and Twixtmas food shop. First, 80 Euros for a goose and another 20 for “farce”. Farce indeed. But it was a local farm producer and I reasoned that this must be the price you pay for good lovingly raised foul.

Then the rest of it at Carrefour, including Christmas wines. €485. I gulped and the checkout lady looked nervous until the card went through. I was also nervous until the card went through.

I’ve never spent so much on a food shop before and I hope never to again.

Luckyguy1983 said:

Leon said:

I can also report after today that my sometimes mega-shy older daughter, down from her first term at St Andrews, is apparently having a lovely time, has made a bunch of great friends, and goes "rewilding" every weekend (I've no idea what this entails)

So thankyou Scotland, you are showing my eldest a good time

And my younger daughter is also swooningly content and in love with a handsome Brazilian pianist and they are now shacked up together in Adelaide, where they play musical riffs in their tiny apartment - him piano, her guitar - when they aren't copping off

That's it, isn't it? That's the best present you can get as a parent. Happy, healthy children

Praise be to the Lord

St Andrews is a nice place for a shy kid. Nice crowd, nice pubs and cafes - not too big city-ish. It's a bit like Guildford-on-sea-in-Scotland. Rewilding at the weekend sounds shit though. Let's hope she grows out of it.

williamglenn said:

rcs1000 said:

williamglenn said:

rcs1000 said:

williamglenn said:

rcs1000 said:

LostPassword said:

DavidL said:

LostPassword said:

DavidL said:

rcs1000 said:

williamglenn said:

rcs1000 said:

Nigelb said:

williamglenn said:

Elon Musk is still promoting the AfD:

https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1870488903452676105

The traditional political parties in Germany have utterly failed the people.

🇩🇪 AfD is the only hope for Germany 🇩🇪

Do we really need hourly updates on that ?

It's also bizarre:

German people live longer than Americans, they're less likely to be murdered or medicated or depressed. They are far less likely to be homeless.

America is an amazing place to be rich. Germany is a much, much better place to be lower or middle income.

American statistics are heavily distorted by its demographics so it can be misleading to compare them directly with European countries. For example a *majority* of murder victims are black:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/251877/murder-victims-in-the-us-by-race-ethnicity-and-gender/

Now would you like to check out what the German murder rate is?

It's about 0.8 per 100,000 people.

The murder rate for white, non-Hispanic, in the US is more than 4. (Which is a hell of a lot better than the 30-32 for African Americans.)

But... even picking the lowest likelihood of getting murdered ethnic group, the US homicide rate is 5x the German rate.

So, the murder rate for African Americans in the US is nearly 40x the German rate? Bloody hell. That's incredible.

What's the murder rate for Jews in Germany?

Now? No idea. There has been a rise in anti Semitic attacks since Gaza started but I am not aware of how many involve murder.

What's your point? That the US is better that Nazi Germany?

Well, obviously, the much higher murder rate for Black people in the US, along with much else, is a sign of how the US has failed to deal with the legacies of slavery. This should be a stain upon that nation's conscience.

Since the comparison is between the US and Germany it's natural to think about how Germany has dealt with the Holocaust and its legacy. But then, of course, the Jewish population in Germany is no longer high enough to calculate a statistically meaningful murder rate. So Germany doesn't have to deal with the legacy of its history in as difficult a way as the US does.

So perhaps the US deserves to be cut some slack? What they are trying to do - in recovering from a monumental historical wrong like race-based slavery, without an external power forcing them to face up to it, and without the two sides separating into different polities - is really very difficult, and I don't think it has been achieved by any country before.

Maybe they've done quite well to get as far as they have?

I do cut the US some slack. Indeed, I love the US.

But what I take exception to is the absurd claims of Musk and others that Germany is some kind of hell hole that needs rescuing.

Based on similar reasoning you could have argued against the idea that communist Eastern Europe was some kind of hell hole that needed rescuing.

I think Rawl's Veil of Ignorance applies, don't you?

Assume you have no knowedge as to your race, intelligence, social stature; which country would you choose to be born in?

I think most people, given that choice right now, would go with Norway or Australia or Canada or New Zealand or Singapore or Denmark.

But would you really have chosen Eastern Europe in communist days over the US?

I certainly wouldn't.

Are you fully applying the veil of ignorance though or are you assuming you would be a 'cishet white male'? You might choose Denmark, but by a stroke of bad luck it turns out that you are a persecuted minority who is having their 'ghetto' bulldozed by the state.

The whole point is that you don't know.

Precisely. Therefore aggregate statistics aren't decisive and you need to consider how minorities are treated. For better or worse that doesn't necessarily favour Europe.