Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Great expectations for 2025 – politicalbetting.com

123578

Comments

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,112
    edited December 21

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    This horror in Germany.

    Just imagine the kind of reaction on social media if that had happened in the U.K. I fear the usual suspects would be gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tension and cleiming conspiracies if challenged.

    I hope Germany is spared that.

    We’ve already got the usual suspects here gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tensions and claiming conspiracies if challenged. I’m absolutely sure there are German equivalents doing the same on German social media, sadly.
    Yes, the convolutions have been remarkable. Last night the usual suspects assumed that the unhinged Saudi doctor carried out the atrocity in the name of jihad. But the narrative had to change slightly when it became reasonably clear that this was unlikely to be the case, and his apparent influences included AfD etc. Not to be defeated, it turns out that it was a double bluff, as he was obviously hiding his jidahism in other guises. Stunning.
    Like everybody else, I've no idea what his motives were at the moment.
    If you’ve got no idea what his motives are, how come you nonetheless KNOW he’s not anyway influenced by jihadism?
    Rather than jumping to conclusions here and on twitter and where ever else, which can and does stimulate reactions, some of which can be quite serious eg riot, arson, murder, etc why not just wait for the facts to become clear and then one can be justifiably outraged at whatever is the cause, whether that be jihadi, fascist or whatever tenancies.
    At the end of the day it was a failure of the state to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence. Attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game.
    You don't know that. You are also jumping to conclusions. He could be a jihadist, he could be a right wing zealot or as in many cases in the past it could simply be someone will mental problems. However rushing to conclusions of either the first two often starts riots, arson and even murder.
    Yes I do know that, and so do you. You seem to be in denial.
    In the very unlikely event I am ever tried for something I hope to god you are not on the jury. I like to rely on facts and not internet trolls.
    My comment was that the state had failed to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence and that attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game. It's a fact that an act of inter-ethnic violence occured and it's a fact that the state failed to prevent it.
    Again you can't know that. It might well be so. It only happened yesterday and you are just reading posts from people you have no idea you can rely on. The guy clearly has a conflicting background and actions. How do you know he isn't schizophrenic or suffering from some other mental issues?

    You just don't know, yet we tolerate people stirring up potential racist violence who don't have the facts. Why can't people wait for the facts.
    The only way in which it could not be true is if they've apprehended the wrong man, which seems highly unlikely. For whatever reason, this person developed a murderous rage against Germans - whether this was islamism, anti-islamism or mental issues doesn't change this fact. It also doesn't change the fact that the authorities were aware of it and failed to act.
    In particular Twitter did nothing about his postings, which were in plain sight, and indeed still are.

    Take this one from August this year, which seems very much not Islamist:

    https://x.com/DrTalebJawad/status/1821207118617203097

    Indeed so far as I can understand his train of thought it is not that he wants to Islamise Germany, but that his grievance against Germany is because they are deporting Saudi asylum seekers, particularly women, back to Saudi to be imprisoned or killed.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    This horror in Germany.

    Just imagine the kind of reaction on social media if that had happened in the U.K. I fear the usual suspects would be gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tension and cleiming conspiracies if challenged.

    I hope Germany is spared that.

    We’ve already got the usual suspects here gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tensions and claiming conspiracies if challenged. I’m absolutely sure there are German equivalents doing the same on German social media, sadly.
    Yes, the convolutions have been remarkable. Last night the usual suspects assumed that the unhinged Saudi doctor carried out the atrocity in the name of jihad. But the narrative had to change slightly when it became reasonably clear that this was unlikely to be the case, and his apparent influences included AfD etc. Not to be defeated, it turns out that it was a double bluff, as he was obviously hiding his jidahism in other guises. Stunning.
    Like everybody else, I've no idea what his motives were at the moment.
    If you’ve got no idea what his motives are, how come you nonetheless KNOW he’s not anyway influenced by jihadism?
    That's a fair point.

    Which could also be directed at your "I'm pretty sure that.." comment upthread.
    No, because we have clear evidence from an informed source that he was on the run from Saudi criminal charges and “strategically” became an apostate. However this is still not certain, hence my “pretty sure”

    Next
    And @Northern_Al said 'reasonably clear' and 'unlikely' and 'apparent'. All equally not quite as definite as 'KNOW' which you accused @Northern_Al saying incorrectly and all pretty equivalent as a level of certainty as 'pretty sure'.

    Bit of pot and kettle there as you exagerate @Northern_Al words.

    How about if I quote your 'pretty sure' as 'KNOW' as you did to @Northern_Al.

    Honestly for someone with such a command of the English language and a huge IQ this is pretty poor.

    At least PB - after a painful, attenuated period of embarrasingly futile denial - is now acknowledging that I have a "huge IQ"

    On a somewhat depressing day, that - I guess - is progress
    So huge that you appear to need AI assistance to unpack your shopping.
    What ARE you talking about? Are you actually outside my house? I know you are weirdly obsessed with me, and it verges on tragic, but actual stalking takes it to a new level

    I have just done some shopping, as it happens, I'm not sure I now require robotic help
    Simply reflecting back what you told us here, the other day. Maybe you were too drunk to remember.
    You ARE obsessed with me, tho, aren't you? You and a few others. Even if I go away for a wihile, you will vent about me

    It's quite pleasing. Especially as I never think about you, ever, apart from when we are directly chatting and I want to wind you up (not hard)
    Not me. The level of discussion on this site elevates considerably during those periods when you are away from it.
    Yeah. Sure. You’ve made about 726 comments about me to other PBers today alone. But whatever. I’ll just file it under “weirdo”
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,112

    Carnyx said:

    Sean_F said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    https://kyivindependent.com/for-first-time-ukraine-attacks-russian-positions-using-solely-ground-fpv-drones/

    "Ukrainian forces successfully attacked Russian positions using only ground and first person view (FPV) drones instead of infantry, an army spokesperson claimed on Dec. 20."

    If Russia is defeated in Ukraine they will be chased out by a veritable horde of drones. Britain won WWI with technological innovation, and Ukraine can still win this war the same way.

    In addition to supporting Ukraine we should, and must, learn all we can about drone warfare in both offensive and defensive terms.
    The MoD should probably rent a dvd of Terminator 2 ( I am assuming their technology would at least be up to that).
    Did we win WW1 with technical innovation? I thought it was more that the US came in with lots of fresh troops and tipped the balance in our favour.
    I think there were three main factors - the naval blockade, US entry into the war, British advances in using the new technologies of the tank and the warplane.

    You can argue about the relative importance of each, but I think Germany would have been defeated without the Americans.
    And new tactics from Australian and Canadian generals.

    The First World War was odd in that it came almost from nowhere, and ended very quickly with the Hundred Days Offensive. It's the four years in between that were problematic.

    The BBC produced two excellent dramadoc series, 37 Days (the countdown to war) and 100 Days (the victory) but neither is on iplayer at the moment.
    Both show up on PBS from time to time, which comes on Freeview.
    Nobody has mentioned the Eastern Front. Austria-Hungary lost badly. And it cost Russian royals their lives and led to soviet revolution.
    A couple of years ago I watched a YouTube series on WW1. It surprised me quite how much of the war was away from the Western Front. Yes, I knew about Russia, and the Dardanelles, and Lawrence of Arabia; but I was unaware quite how much of the war was in those and other campaigns. They were far from being minor parts in the war, which is how I think many people think of them compared to the Western Front.
    The experience of the Italians fighting the Austrians in the mountains of Veneto and what is now Slovenia was objectively worse than the tales from the trenches, with which we are all so familiar. Yet go mostly unremarked by popular history. The reason why Italy became the first fascist country derive from its terrible experience during WW1.

    By way of partial relief for what is a very grim period of history, here’s the dog in the remains of a shallow trench that was eked out by Italian troops during WW1 in the frozen mountains above the Soca valley, taken in summer. Where, incidentally, a young German named Rommel first made his name.



    Marshal Luigi Cardorna, who sent Italian soldiers to their deaths, in their tens of thousands, at the Isonzo, was a monster, who honestly ought to have been shot for his callous incompetence.
    Reading about the mountain war in the Alps is also terrifying. Even - especially - today, with glacier recession, bodies are emerging from the ice up there.
    The fighting conditions on the eastern front at times were just appalling.
    The destruction of the Austro-Hungarians at the siege of Przymsyl in the winter of 14-15 is as epic as the battle of Stalingrad. That and the Brusilov offensive shows the Russians were quite capable, apart from when fighting the much better equipped and led German Army.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,888
    ...

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    This horror in Germany.

    Just imagine the kind of reaction on social media if that had happened in the U.K. I fear the usual suspects would be gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tension and cleiming conspiracies if challenged.

    I hope Germany is spared that.

    We’ve already got the usual suspects here gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tensions and claiming conspiracies if challenged. I’m absolutely sure there are German equivalents doing the same on German social media, sadly.
    Yes, the convolutions have been remarkable. Last night the usual suspects assumed that the unhinged Saudi doctor carried out the atrocity in the name of jihad. But the narrative had to change slightly when it became reasonably clear that this was unlikely to be the case, and his apparent influences included AfD etc. Not to be defeated, it turns out that it was a double bluff, as he was obviously hiding his jidahism in other guises. Stunning.
    Like everybody else, I've no idea what his motives were at the moment.
    If you’ve got no idea what his motives are, how come you nonetheless KNOW he’s not anyway influenced by jihadism?
    Rather than jumping to conclusions here and on twitter and where ever else, which can and does stimulate reactions, some of which can be quite serious eg riot, arson, murder, etc why not just wait for the facts to become clear and then one can be justifiably outraged at whatever is the cause, whether that be jihadi, fascist or whatever tenancies.
    At the end of the day it was a failure of the state to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence. Attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game.
    You don't know that. You are also jumping to conclusions. He could be a jihadist, he could be a right wing zealot or as in many cases in the past it could simply be someone will mental problems. However rushing to conclusions of either the first two often starts riots, arson and even murder.
    Yes I do know that, and so do you. You seem to be in denial.
    In the very unlikely event I am ever tried for something I hope to god you are not on the jury. I like to rely on facts and not internet trolls.
    My comment was that the state had failed to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence and that attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game. It's a fact that an act of inter-ethnic violence occured and it's a fact that the state failed to prevent it.
    Are you sure writing your excitable racially charged bollocks on here is the right platform for you? We seem to have decided which side of the fence we sit on, some are with you whilst the rest view the German massacre as a tragedy rather than a political opportunity.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,330

    Carnyx said:

    Sean_F said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    https://kyivindependent.com/for-first-time-ukraine-attacks-russian-positions-using-solely-ground-fpv-drones/

    "Ukrainian forces successfully attacked Russian positions using only ground and first person view (FPV) drones instead of infantry, an army spokesperson claimed on Dec. 20."

    If Russia is defeated in Ukraine they will be chased out by a veritable horde of drones. Britain won WWI with technological innovation, and Ukraine can still win this war the same way.

    In addition to supporting Ukraine we should, and must, learn all we can about drone warfare in both offensive and defensive terms.
    The MoD should probably rent a dvd of Terminator 2 ( I am assuming their technology would at least be up to that).
    Did we win WW1 with technical innovation? I thought it was more that the US came in with lots of fresh troops and tipped the balance in our favour.
    I think there were three main factors - the naval blockade, US entry into the war, British advances in using the new technologies of the tank and the warplane.

    You can argue about the relative importance of each, but I think Germany would have been defeated without the Americans.
    And new tactics from Australian and Canadian generals.

    The First World War was odd in that it came almost from nowhere, and ended very quickly with the Hundred Days Offensive. It's the four years in between that were problematic.

    The BBC produced two excellent dramadoc series, 37 Days (the countdown to war) and 100 Days (the victory) but neither is on iplayer at the moment.
    Both show up on PBS from time to time, which comes on Freeview.
    Nobody has mentioned the Eastern Front. Austria-Hungary lost badly. And it cost Russian royals their lives and led to soviet revolution.
    A couple of years ago I watched a YouTube series on WW1. It surprised me quite how much of the war was away from the Western Front. Yes, I knew about Russia, and the Dardanelles, and Lawrence of Arabia; but I was unaware quite how much of the war was in those and other campaigns. They were far from being minor parts in the war, which is how I think many people think of them compared to the Western Front.
    The experience of the Italians fighting the Austrians in the mountains of Veneto and what is now Slovenia was objectively worse than the tales from the trenches, with which we are all so familiar. Yet go mostly unremarked by popular history. The reason why Italy became the first fascist country derive from its terrible experience during WW1.

    By way of partial relief for what is a very grim period of history, here’s the dog in the remains of a shallow trench that was eked out by Italian troops during WW1 in the frozen mountains above the Soca valley, taken in summer. Where, incidentally, a young German named Rommel first made his name.



    Marshal Luigi Cardorna, who sent Italian soldiers to their deaths, in their tens of thousands, at the Isonzo, was a monster, who honestly ought to have been shot for his callous incompetence.
    Reading about the mountain war in the Alps is also terrifying. Even - especially - today, with glacier recession, bodies are emerging from the ice up there.
    The fighting conditions on the eastern front at times were just appalling.
    The British army on the Western Front seems to have had a remarkably regular life by comparison.

    Though I was looking again the other day at the War Office letter *after* Armistice Day to a relative letting her know that her husband had a bad wound in the knee, on 9 November 1918. (I think he survived, and ended up as the local bank manager. But I wonder if that wound affected his life. Nobody now to ask.)

    And I've discovered that *both* grandfathers served in the Great War, in Scots infantry battalions. No trace of it for one of them - no medals (presumably never claimed), no letters or souvenirs, no demob chit, nothing except a single photo showing him training on a Hotchkiss Portative and wearing a LG = Lewis Gunner badge on his sleeve.

    He must have washed his hands of it all and just got on with his life. Though he died early, of stomach cancer. I do wonder about mustard gas, but I never heard any stories of him in the war.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,268
    Foxy said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    This horror in Germany.

    Just imagine the kind of reaction on social media if that had happened in the U.K. I fear the usual suspects would be gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tension and cleiming conspiracies if challenged.

    I hope Germany is spared that.

    We’ve already got the usual suspects here gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tensions and claiming conspiracies if challenged. I’m absolutely sure there are German equivalents doing the same on German social media, sadly.
    Yes, the convolutions have been remarkable. Last night the usual suspects assumed that the unhinged Saudi doctor carried out the atrocity in the name of jihad. But the narrative had to change slightly when it became reasonably clear that this was unlikely to be the case, and his apparent influences included AfD etc. Not to be defeated, it turns out that it was a double bluff, as he was obviously hiding his jidahism in other guises. Stunning.
    Like everybody else, I've no idea what his motives were at the moment.
    If you’ve got no idea what his motives are, how come you nonetheless KNOW he’s not anyway influenced by jihadism?
    Rather than jumping to conclusions here and on twitter and where ever else, which can and does stimulate reactions, some of which can be quite serious eg riot, arson, murder, etc why not just wait for the facts to become clear and then one can be justifiably outraged at whatever is the cause, whether that be jihadi, fascist or whatever tenancies.
    At the end of the day it was a failure of the state to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence. Attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game.
    You don't know that. You are also jumping to conclusions. He could be a jihadist, he could be a right wing zealot or as in many cases in the past it could simply be someone will mental problems. However rushing to conclusions of either the first two often starts riots, arson and even murder.
    Yes I do know that, and so do you. You seem to be in denial.
    In the very unlikely event I am ever tried for something I hope to god you are not on the jury. I like to rely on facts and not internet trolls.
    My comment was that the state had failed to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence and that attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game. It's a fact that an act of inter-ethnic violence occured and it's a fact that the state failed to prevent it.
    Again you can't know that. It might well be so. It only happened yesterday and you are just reading posts from people you have no idea you can rely on. The guy clearly has a conflicting background and actions. How do you know he isn't schizophrenic or suffering from some other mental issues?

    You just don't know, yet we tolerate people stirring up potential racist violence who don't have the facts. Why can't people wait for the facts.
    The only way in which it could not be true is if they've apprehended the wrong man, which seems highly unlikely. For whatever reason, this person developed a murderous rage against Germans - whether this was islamism, anti-islamism or mental issues doesn't change this fact. It also doesn't change the fact that the authorities were aware of it and failed to act.
    In particular Twitter did nothing about his postings, which were in plain sight, and indeed still are.

    Take this one from August this year, which seems very much not Islamist:

    https://x.com/DrTalebJawad/status/1821207118617203097

    Indeed so far as I can understand his train of thought it is not that he wants to Islamise Germany, but that Germany is deporting Saudi asylum seekers, particularly women, back to Saudi to be imprisoned or killed.
    It's quite common for idealisation to mutate into hatred when the object of someone's affections fails to live up to the fantasy. He idealised the secular west, but it let him down in his eyes, so it deserved to be punished. It shows how integration can sometimes be an illusion.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,888

    Elon Musk is still promoting the AfD:

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1870488903452676105

    The traditional political parties in Germany have utterly failed the people.

    🇩🇪 AfD is the only hope for Germany 🇩🇪

    That might be a masturbatory revelation to you but most on here would apply Mandy Rice Davies's observation.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,144
    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    This horror in Germany.

    Just imagine the kind of reaction on social media if that had happened in the U.K. I fear the usual suspects would be gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tension and cleiming conspiracies if challenged.

    I hope Germany is spared that.

    We’ve already got the usual suspects here gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tensions and claiming conspiracies if challenged. I’m absolutely sure there are German equivalents doing the same on German social media, sadly.
    Yes, the convolutions have been remarkable. Last night the usual suspects assumed that the unhinged Saudi doctor carried out the atrocity in the name of jihad. But the narrative had to change slightly when it became reasonably clear that this was unlikely to be the case, and his apparent influences included AfD etc. Not to be defeated, it turns out that it was a double bluff, as he was obviously hiding his jidahism in other guises. Stunning.
    Like everybody else, I've no idea what his motives were at the moment.
    If you’ve got no idea what his motives are, how come you nonetheless KNOW he’s not anyway influenced by jihadism?
    That's a fair point.

    Which could also be directed at your "I'm pretty sure that.." comment upthread.
    No, because we have clear evidence from an informed source that he was on the run from Saudi criminal charges and “strategically” became an apostate. However this is still not certain, hence my “pretty sure”

    Next
    And @Northern_Al said 'reasonably clear' and 'unlikely' and 'apparent'. All equally not quite as definite as 'KNOW' which you accused @Northern_Al saying incorrectly and all pretty equivalent as a level of certainty as 'pretty sure'.

    Bit of pot and kettle there as you exagerate @Northern_Al words.

    How about if I quote your 'pretty sure' as 'KNOW' as you did to @Northern_Al.

    Honestly for someone with such a command of the English language and a huge IQ this is pretty poor.

    At least PB - after a painful, attenuated period of embarrasingly futile denial - is now acknowledging that I have a "huge IQ"

    On a somewhat depressing day, that - I guess - is progress
    So huge that you appear to need AI assistance to unpack your shopping.
    What ARE you talking about? Are you actually outside my house? I know you are weirdly obsessed with me, and it verges on tragic, but actual stalking takes it to a new level

    I have just done some shopping, as it happens, I'm not sure I now require robotic help
    Simply reflecting back what you told us here, the other day. Maybe you were too drunk to remember.
    You ARE obsessed with me, tho, aren't you? You and a few others. Even if I go away for a wihile, you will vent about me

    It's quite pleasing. Especially as I never think about you, ever, apart from when we are directly chatting and I want to wind you up (not hard)
    Not me. The level of discussion on this site elevates considerably during those periods when you are away from it.
    Yeah. Sure. You’ve made about 726 comments about me to other PBers today alone. But whatever. I’ll just file it under “weirdo”
    Save the filing until you've sobered up.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    Foxy said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    This horror in Germany.

    Just imagine the kind of reaction on social media if that had happened in the U.K. I fear the usual suspects would be gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tension and cleiming conspiracies if challenged.

    I hope Germany is spared that.

    We’ve already got the usual suspects here gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tensions and claiming conspiracies if challenged. I’m absolutely sure there are German equivalents doing the same on German social media, sadly.
    Yes, the convolutions have been remarkable. Last night the usual suspects assumed that the unhinged Saudi doctor carried out the atrocity in the name of jihad. But the narrative had to change slightly when it became reasonably clear that this was unlikely to be the case, and his apparent influences included AfD etc. Not to be defeated, it turns out that it was a double bluff, as he was obviously hiding his jidahism in other guises. Stunning.
    Like everybody else, I've no idea what his motives were at the moment.
    If you’ve got no idea what his motives are, how come you nonetheless KNOW he’s not anyway influenced by jihadism?
    Rather than jumping to conclusions here and on twitter and where ever else, which can and does stimulate reactions, some of which can be quite serious eg riot, arson, murder, etc why not just wait for the facts to become clear and then one can be justifiably outraged at whatever is the cause, whether that be jihadi, fascist or whatever tenancies.
    At the end of the day it was a failure of the state to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence. Attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game.
    You don't know that. You are also jumping to conclusions. He could be a jihadist, he could be a right wing zealot or as in many cases in the past it could simply be someone will mental problems. However rushing to conclusions of either the first two often starts riots, arson and even murder.
    Yes I do know that, and so do you. You seem to be in denial.
    In the very unlikely event I am ever tried for something I hope to god you are not on the jury. I like to rely on facts and not internet trolls.
    My comment was that the state had failed to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence and that attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game. It's a fact that an act of inter-ethnic violence occured and it's a fact that the state failed to prevent it.
    Again you can't know that. It might well be so. It only happened yesterday and you are just reading posts from people you have no idea you can rely on. The guy clearly has a conflicting background and actions. How do you know he isn't schizophrenic or suffering from some other mental issues?

    You just don't know, yet we tolerate people stirring up potential racist violence who don't have the facts. Why can't people wait for the facts.
    The only way in which it could not be true is if they've apprehended the wrong man, which seems highly unlikely. For whatever reason, this person developed a murderous rage against Germans - whether this was islamism, anti-islamism or mental issues doesn't change this fact. It also doesn't change the fact that the authorities were aware of it and failed to act.
    In particular Twitter did nothing about his postings, which were in plain sight, and indeed still are.

    Take this one from August this year, which seems very much not Islamist:

    https://x.com/DrTalebJawad/status/1821207118617203097

    Indeed so far as I can understand his train of thought it is not that he wants to Islamise Germany, but that Germany is deporting Saudi asylum seekers, particularly women, back to Saudi to be imprisoned or killed.
    It’s impossible to follow his train of thought. He’s made some comments in Arabic which directly contradict stuff he’s said in English. I think he might simply be a criminal nutter who PROBABLY faked apostasy to avoid extradition, and he has developed a bizarre, murderous grudge against Germany and Germans


    If he was that anti-Islam or Saudi surely he would have attacked a mosque or an embassy

    Instead he attacked a Christmas market?! He also did it on the anniversary - I think - of a known jihadi attack against a German Xmas market
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    This horror in Germany.

    Just imagine the kind of reaction on social media if that had happened in the U.K. I fear the usual suspects would be gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tension and cleiming conspiracies if challenged.

    I hope Germany is spared that.

    We’ve already got the usual suspects here gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tensions and claiming conspiracies if challenged. I’m absolutely sure there are German equivalents doing the same on German social media, sadly.
    Yes, the convolutions have been remarkable. Last night the usual suspects assumed that the unhinged Saudi doctor carried out the atrocity in the name of jihad. But the narrative had to change slightly when it became reasonably clear that this was unlikely to be the case, and his apparent influences included AfD etc. Not to be defeated, it turns out that it was a double bluff, as he was obviously hiding his jidahism in other guises. Stunning.
    Like everybody else, I've no idea what his motives were at the moment.
    If you’ve got no idea what his motives are, how come you nonetheless KNOW he’s not anyway influenced by jihadism?
    That's a fair point.

    Which could also be directed at your "I'm pretty sure that.." comment upthread.
    No, because we have clear evidence from an informed source that he was on the run from Saudi criminal charges and “strategically” became an apostate. However this is still not certain, hence my “pretty sure”

    Next
    And @Northern_Al said 'reasonably clear' and 'unlikely' and 'apparent'. All equally not quite as definite as 'KNOW' which you accused @Northern_Al saying incorrectly and all pretty equivalent as a level of certainty as 'pretty sure'.

    Bit of pot and kettle there as you exagerate @Northern_Al words.

    How about if I quote your 'pretty sure' as 'KNOW' as you did to @Northern_Al.

    Honestly for someone with such a command of the English language and a huge IQ this is pretty poor.

    At least PB - after a painful, attenuated period of embarrasingly futile denial - is now acknowledging that I have a "huge IQ"

    On a somewhat depressing day, that - I guess - is progress
    So huge that you appear to need AI assistance to unpack your shopping.
    What ARE you talking about? Are you actually outside my house? I know you are weirdly obsessed with me, and it verges on tragic, but actual stalking takes it to a new level

    I have just done some shopping, as it happens, I'm not sure I now require robotic help
    Simply reflecting back what you told us here, the other day. Maybe you were too drunk to remember.
    You ARE obsessed with me, tho, aren't you? You and a few others. Even if I go away for a wihile, you will vent about me

    It's quite pleasing. Especially as I never think about you, ever, apart from when we are directly chatting and I want to wind you up (not hard)
    Not me. The level of discussion on this site elevates considerably during those periods when you are away from it.
    Yeah. Sure. You’ve made about 726 comments about me to other PBers today alone. But whatever. I’ll just file it under “weirdo”
    Save the filing until you've sobered up.
    If I ever did quit PB you’d probably go into some weird spasm of mourning. I dominate your thoughts so much it would be, for you, like heartbreak or grief. I imagine you walking around ventnor, crying, as everyone in ventnor tries to avoid you even more than normal

    It’s a bit of a burden, frankly. I’ve got a lot on my plate right now - travel, family, new flint projects - but now I have to keep posting on here just so you don’t tip over into psychosis
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,433
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    This horror in Germany.

    Just imagine the kind of reaction on social media if that had happened in the U.K. I fear the usual suspects would be gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tension and cleiming conspiracies if challenged.

    I hope Germany is spared that.

    We’ve already got the usual suspects here gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tensions and claiming conspiracies if challenged. I’m absolutely sure there are German equivalents doing the same on German social media, sadly.
    Yes, the convolutions have been remarkable. Last night the usual suspects assumed that the unhinged Saudi doctor carried out the atrocity in the name of jihad. But the narrative had to change slightly when it became reasonably clear that this was unlikely to be the case, and his apparent influences included AfD etc. Not to be defeated, it turns out that it was a double bluff, as he was obviously hiding his jidahism in other guises. Stunning.
    Like everybody else, I've no idea what his motives were at the moment.
    If you’ve got no idea what his motives are, how come you nonetheless KNOW he’s not anyway influenced by jihadism?
    Rather than jumping to conclusions here and on twitter and where ever else, which can and does stimulate reactions, some of which can be quite serious eg riot, arson, murder, etc why not just wait for the facts to become clear and then one can be justifiably outraged at whatever is the cause, whether that be jihadi, fascist or whatever tenancies.
    At the end of the day it was a failure of the state to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence. Attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game.
    You don't know that. You are also jumping to conclusions. He could be a jihadist, he could be a right wing zealot or as in many cases in the past it could simply be someone will mental problems. However rushing to conclusions of either the first two often starts riots, arson and even murder.
    Yes I do know that, and so do you. You seem to be in denial.
    In the very unlikely event I am ever tried for something I hope to god you are not on the jury. I like to rely on facts and not internet trolls.
    My comment was that the state had failed to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence and that attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game. It's a fact that an act of inter-ethnic violence occured and it's a fact that the state failed to prevent it.
    Again you can't know that. It might well be so. It only happened yesterday and you are just reading posts from people you have no idea you can rely on. The guy clearly has a conflicting background and actions. How do you know he isn't schizophrenic or suffering from some other mental issues?

    You just don't know, yet we tolerate people stirring up potential racist violence who don't have the facts. Why can't people wait for the facts.
    The only way in which it could not be true is if they've apprehended the wrong man, which seems highly unlikely. For whatever reason, this person developed a murderous rage against Germans - whether this was islamism, anti-islamism or mental issues doesn't change this fact. It also doesn't change the fact that the authorities were aware of it and failed to act.
    In particular Twitter did nothing about his postings, which were in plain sight, and indeed still are.

    Take this one from August this year, which seems very much not Islamist:

    https://x.com/DrTalebJawad/status/1821207118617203097

    Indeed so far as I can understand his train of thought it is not that he wants to Islamise Germany, but that Germany is deporting Saudi asylum seekers, particularly women, back to Saudi to be imprisoned or killed.
    It’s impossible to follow his train of thought. He’s made some comments in Arabic which directly contradict stuff he’s said in English. I think he might simply be a criminal nutter who PROBABLY faked apostasy to avoid extradition, and he has developed a bizarre, murderous grudge against Germany and Germans

    If he was that anti-Islam or Saudi surely he would have attacked a mosque or an embassy

    Instead he attacked a Christmas market?! He also did it on the anniversary - I think - of a known jihadi attack against a German Xmas market
    As I said below: you are assuming there is just one motivation. It might be that he was just angry about a whole bunch of grievances. Very, very angry.

    I think much will depend on how much planning went into this attack. Weeks of planning would indicate a certainty of purpose and motivation. Little or no planning would indicate uncertainty of purpose. "Sod it; I'm bloody annoyed. Let's ****ing do it!"
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,433

    Elon Musk is still promoting the AfD:

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1870488903452676105

    The traditional political parties in Germany have utterly failed the people.

    🇩🇪 AfD is the only hope for Germany 🇩🇪

    Much of AfD is very pro-Russia...
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,376
    Plenty of Christmas spirit on here this afternoon I see 😂
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,709

    Elon Musk is still promoting the AfD:

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1870488903452676105

    The traditional political parties in Germany have utterly failed the people.

    🇩🇪 AfD is the only hope for Germany 🇩🇪

    Much of AfD is very pro-Russia...
    So that is where the support Musk go?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,709
    edited December 21
    GIN1138 said:

    Plenty of Christmas spirit on here this afternoon I see 😂

    It's about 99 proof.

    Although your username is even stronger...
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    This horror in Germany.

    Just imagine the kind of reaction on social media if that had happened in the U.K. I fear the usual suspects would be gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tension and cleiming conspiracies if challenged.

    I hope Germany is spared that.

    We’ve already got the usual suspects here gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tensions and claiming conspiracies if challenged. I’m absolutely sure there are German equivalents doing the same on German social media, sadly.
    Yes, the convolutions have been remarkable. Last night the usual suspects assumed that the unhinged Saudi doctor carried out the atrocity in the name of jihad. But the narrative had to change slightly when it became reasonably clear that this was unlikely to be the case, and his apparent influences included AfD etc. Not to be defeated, it turns out that it was a double bluff, as he was obviously hiding his jidahism in other guises. Stunning.
    Like everybody else, I've no idea what his motives were at the moment.
    If you’ve got no idea what his motives are, how come you nonetheless KNOW he’s not anyway influenced by jihadism?
    Rather than jumping to conclusions here and on twitter and where ever else, which can and does stimulate reactions, some of which can be quite serious eg riot, arson, murder, etc why not just wait for the facts to become clear and then one can be justifiably outraged at whatever is the cause, whether that be jihadi, fascist or whatever tenancies.
    At the end of the day it was a failure of the state to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence. Attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game.
    You don't know that. You are also jumping to conclusions. He could be a jihadist, he could be a right wing zealot or as in many cases in the past it could simply be someone will mental problems. However rushing to conclusions of either the first two often starts riots, arson and even murder.
    Yes I do know that, and so do you. You seem to be in denial.
    In the very unlikely event I am ever tried for something I hope to god you are not on the jury. I like to rely on facts and not internet trolls.
    My comment was that the state had failed to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence and that attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game. It's a fact that an act of inter-ethnic violence occured and it's a fact that the state failed to prevent it.
    Again you can't know that. It might well be so. It only happened yesterday and you are just reading posts from people you have no idea you can rely on. The guy clearly has a conflicting background and actions. How do you know he isn't schizophrenic or suffering from some other mental issues?

    You just don't know, yet we tolerate people stirring up potential racist violence who don't have the facts. Why can't people wait for the facts.
    The only way in which it could not be true is if they've apprehended the wrong man, which seems highly unlikely. For whatever reason, this person developed a murderous rage against Germans - whether this was islamism, anti-islamism or mental issues doesn't change this fact. It also doesn't change the fact that the authorities were aware of it and failed to act.
    In particular Twitter did nothing about his postings, which were in plain sight, and indeed still are.

    Take this one from August this year, which seems very much not Islamist:

    https://x.com/DrTalebJawad/status/1821207118617203097

    Indeed so far as I can understand his train of thought it is not that he wants to Islamise Germany, but that Germany is deporting Saudi asylum seekers, particularly women, back to Saudi to be imprisoned or killed.
    It’s impossible to follow his train of thought. He’s made some comments in Arabic which directly contradict stuff he’s said in English. I think he might simply be a criminal nutter who PROBABLY faked apostasy to avoid extradition, and he has developed a bizarre, murderous grudge against Germany and Germans

    If he was that anti-Islam or Saudi surely he would have attacked a mosque or an embassy

    Instead he attacked a Christmas market?! He also did it on the anniversary - I think - of a known jihadi attack against a German Xmas market
    As I said below: you are assuming there is just one motivation. It might be that he was just angry about a whole bunch of grievances. Very, very angry.

    I think much will depend on how much planning went into this attack. Weeks of planning would indicate a certainty of purpose and motivation. Little or no planning would indicate uncertainty of purpose. "Sod it; I'm bloody annoyed. Let's ****ing do it!"
    Fair point about planning. Who knows. However it is clear he’s had it in his mind to slaughter lots of Germans for many months. Some woman tried to warn the authorities a couple of years ago
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,433
    GIN1138 said:

    Plenty of Christmas spirit on here this afternoon I see 😂

    Bah, humbug.

    I was quite ill a month ago, and have only just started running and swimming again. Then my father-in-law died a couple of weeks ago. He was an honest, humble and humorous man. Sadly, I did not know him too well. Mrs J is understandably devastated, though the turn-out to his funeral (and the people who turned out at the airport to see his body away) have warmed her. He was thrice the man I am.

    It's not been a very good run-up to Christmas...
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,807
    It's very interesting how Musk is protecting his business interests by riding the tiger of the progressive right all the way into power.

    I actually support donationa from businessmen like Nick Candy and Jim Ratcliffe who've read the writing on the wall and realise if we want a working economy we have to get someone radically different in - Musk I have more reservations about, because he just wants everyone to buy his electric cars. I like his support for free speech a lot, and I find his political activities a great deal less troubling than what I see as the more insidious political patronage of Blackrock, but let's be honest that he has a huge commercial agenda.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496

    GIN1138 said:

    Plenty of Christmas spirit on here this afternoon I see 😂

    Bah, humbug.

    I was quite ill a month ago, and have only just started running and swimming again. Then my father-in-law died a couple of weeks ago. He was an honest, humble and humorous man. Sadly, I did not know him too well. Mrs J is understandably devastated, though the turn-out to his funeral (and the people who turned out at the airport to see his body away) have warmed her. He was thrice the man I am.

    It's not been a very good run-up to Christmas...
    That’s unpleasant. Sympathies

    Why does all this stuff happen around Christmas?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,709

    GIN1138 said:

    Plenty of Christmas spirit on here this afternoon I see 😂

    Bah, humbug.

    I was quite ill a month ago, and have only just started running and swimming again. Then my father-in-law died a couple of weeks ago. He was an honest, humble and humorous man. Sadly, I did not know him too well. Mrs J is understandably devastated, though the turn-out to his funeral (and the people who turned out at the airport to see his body away) have warmed her. He was thrice the man I am.

    It's not been a very good run-up to Christmas...
    OK, not fun.

    Can we rally round to cheer this man up? Some proper Christmas spirit?

    Does the original poster have a good snifter of Gin at proof 1138 that would help?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    I’m in Shoreditch. Everyone else is about 17.

    Sigh
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,632

    Elon Musk is still promoting the AfD:

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1870488903452676105

    The traditional political parties in Germany have utterly failed the people.

    🇩🇪 AfD is the only hope for Germany 🇩🇪

    It's becoming ever clearer what he is.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,330
    edited December 21
    ydoethur said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Plenty of Christmas spirit on here this afternoon I see 😂

    Bah, humbug.

    I was quite ill a month ago, and have only just started running and swimming again. Then my father-in-law died a couple of weeks ago. He was an honest, humble and humorous man. Sadly, I did not know him too well. Mrs J is understandably devastated, though the turn-out to his funeral (and the people who turned out at the airport to see his body away) have warmed her. He was thrice the man I am.

    It's not been a very good run-up to Christmas...
    OK, not fun.

    Can we rally round to cheer this man up? Some proper Christmas spirit?

    Does the original poster have a good snifter of Gin at proof 1138 that would help?
    Agreed. Commiserations. Had that happen to me in the past (family death before Christmas).

    No spare gin but maybe this bit of engineering history of the Crystal Palace would help? Just noticed it, and it's open access.

    https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/17581206.2024.2391984#d1e154
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,709
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Plenty of Christmas spirit on here this afternoon I see 😂

    Bah, humbug.

    I was quite ill a month ago, and have only just started running and swimming again. Then my father-in-law died a couple of weeks ago. He was an honest, humble and humorous man. Sadly, I did not know him too well. Mrs J is understandably devastated, though the turn-out to his funeral (and the people who turned out at the airport to see his body away) have warmed her. He was thrice the man I am.

    It's not been a very good run-up to Christmas...
    OK, not fun.

    Can we rally round to cheer this man up? Some proper Christmas spirit?

    Does the original poster have a good snifter of Gin at proof 1138 that would help?
    Agreed. Commiserations. Had that happen to me in the past (family death before Christmas).

    No spare gin but maybe this bit of engineering history of the Crystal Palace would help? Just noticed it, and it's open access.

    https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/17581206.2024.2391984#d1e154
    Is that a different way of raising a glass?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,376

    GIN1138 said:

    Plenty of Christmas spirit on here this afternoon I see 😂

    Bah, humbug.

    I was quite ill a month ago, and have only just started running and swimming again. Then my father-in-law died a couple of weeks ago. He was an honest, humble and humorous man. Sadly, I did not know him too well. Mrs J is understandably devastated, though the turn-out to his funeral (and the people who turned out at the airport to see his body away) have warmed her. He was thrice the man I am.

    It's not been a very good run-up to Christmas...
    Oh, how awful! RIP to you FIL.

    I've been sick with various bugs and thought I was having a bad pre-Christmas period, but your post puts things in perspective.

    There's always someone having a worse time than you...

    Hope you and Mrs J manage to have a peaceful Christmas, even if it's a sad one.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,608
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    This horror in Germany.

    Just imagine the kind of reaction on social media if that had happened in the U.K. I fear the usual suspects would be gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tension and cleiming conspiracies if challenged.

    I hope Germany is spared that.

    We’ve already got the usual suspects here gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tensions and claiming conspiracies if challenged. I’m absolutely sure there are German equivalents doing the same on German social media, sadly.
    Yes, the convolutions have been remarkable. Last night the usual suspects assumed that the unhinged Saudi doctor carried out the atrocity in the name of jihad. But the narrative had to change slightly when it became reasonably clear that this was unlikely to be the case, and his apparent influences included AfD etc. Not to be defeated, it turns out that it was a double bluff, as he was obviously hiding his jidahism in other guises. Stunning.
    Like everybody else, I've no idea what his motives were at the moment.
    If you’ve got no idea what his motives are, how come you nonetheless KNOW he’s not anyway influenced by jihadism?
    Rather than jumping to conclusions here and on twitter and where ever else, which can and does stimulate reactions, some of which can be quite serious eg riot, arson, murder, etc why not just wait for the facts to become clear and then one can be justifiably outraged at whatever is the cause, whether that be jihadi, fascist or whatever tenancies.
    At the end of the day it was a failure of the state to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence. Attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game.
    You don't know that. You are also jumping to conclusions. He could be a jihadist, he could be a right wing zealot or as in many cases in the past it could simply be someone will mental problems. However rushing to conclusions of either the first two often starts riots, arson and even murder.
    Yes I do know that, and so do you. You seem to be in denial.
    In the very unlikely event I am ever tried for something I hope to god you are not on the jury. I like to rely on facts and not internet trolls.
    My comment was that the state had failed to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence and that attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game. It's a fact that an act of inter-ethnic violence occured and it's a fact that the state failed to prevent it.
    Again you can't know that. It might well be so. It only happened yesterday and you are just reading posts from people you have no idea you can rely on. The guy clearly has a conflicting background and actions. How do you know he isn't schizophrenic or suffering from some other mental issues?

    You just don't know, yet we tolerate people stirring up potential racist violence who don't have the facts. Why can't people wait for the facts.
    The only way in which it could not be true is if they've apprehended the wrong man, which seems highly unlikely. For whatever reason, this person developed a murderous rage against Germans - whether this was islamism, anti-islamism or mental issues doesn't change this fact. It also doesn't change the fact that the authorities were aware of it and failed to act.
    In particular Twitter did nothing about his postings, which were in plain sight, and indeed still are.

    Take this one from August this year, which seems very much not Islamist:

    https://x.com/DrTalebJawad/status/1821207118617203097

    Indeed so far as I can understand his train of thought it is not that he wants to Islamise Germany, but that Germany is deporting Saudi asylum seekers, particularly women, back to Saudi to be imprisoned or killed.
    It’s impossible to follow his train of thought. He’s made some comments in Arabic which directly contradict stuff he’s said in English. I think he might simply be a criminal nutter who PROBABLY faked apostasy to avoid extradition, and he has developed a bizarre, murderous grudge against Germany and Germans


    If he was that anti-Islam or Saudi surely he would have attacked a mosque or an embassy

    Instead he attacked a Christmas market?! He also did it on the anniversary - I think - of a known jihadi attack against a German Xmas market
    Remember kids:

    If a white Christian kills a bunch of people, it's because he's mentally ill.

    If a brown Muslim does it, it's because he's motivated by Islam.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,330
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Plenty of Christmas spirit on here this afternoon I see 😂

    Bah, humbug.

    I was quite ill a month ago, and have only just started running and swimming again. Then my father-in-law died a couple of weeks ago. He was an honest, humble and humorous man. Sadly, I did not know him too well. Mrs J is understandably devastated, though the turn-out to his funeral (and the people who turned out at the airport to see his body away) have warmed her. He was thrice the man I am.

    It's not been a very good run-up to Christmas...
    OK, not fun.

    Can we rally round to cheer this man up? Some proper Christmas spirit?

    Does the original poster have a good snifter of Gin at proof 1138 that would help?
    Agreed. Commiserations. Had that happen to me in the past (family death before Christmas).

    No spare gin but maybe this bit of engineering history of the Crystal Palace would help? Just noticed it, and it's open access.

    https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/17581206.2024.2391984#d1e154
    Is that a different way of raising a glass?
    Indeed, with a screw rather than a cork involved.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,082
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    This horror in Germany.

    Just imagine the kind of reaction on social media if that had happened in the U.K. I fear the usual suspects would be gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tension and cleiming conspiracies if challenged.

    I hope Germany is spared that.

    We’ve already got the usual suspects here gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tensions and claiming conspiracies if challenged. I’m absolutely sure there are German equivalents doing the same on German social media, sadly.
    Yes, the convolutions have been remarkable. Last night the usual suspects assumed that the unhinged Saudi doctor carried out the atrocity in the name of jihad. But the narrative had to change slightly when it became reasonably clear that this was unlikely to be the case, and his apparent influences included AfD etc. Not to be defeated, it turns out that it was a double bluff, as he was obviously hiding his jidahism in other guises. Stunning.
    Like everybody else, I've no idea what his motives were at the moment.
    If you’ve got no idea what his motives are, how come you nonetheless KNOW he’s not anyway influenced by jihadism?
    Rather than jumping to conclusions here and on twitter and where ever else, which can and does stimulate reactions, some of which can be quite serious eg riot, arson, murder, etc why not just wait for the facts to become clear and then one can be justifiably outraged at whatever is the cause, whether that be jihadi, fascist or whatever tenancies.
    At the end of the day it was a failure of the state to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence. Attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game.
    You don't know that. You are also jumping to conclusions. He could be a jihadist, he could be a right wing zealot or as in many cases in the past it could simply be someone will mental problems. However rushing to conclusions of either the first two often starts riots, arson and even murder.
    Yes I do know that, and so do you. You seem to be in denial.
    In the very unlikely event I am ever tried for something I hope to god you are not on the jury. I like to rely on facts and not internet trolls.
    My comment was that the state had failed to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence and that attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game. It's a fact that an act of inter-ethnic violence occured and it's a fact that the state failed to prevent it.
    Again you can't know that. It might well be so. It only happened yesterday and you are just reading posts from people you have no idea you can rely on. The guy clearly has a conflicting background and actions. How do you know he isn't schizophrenic or suffering from some other mental issues?

    You just don't know, yet we tolerate people stirring up potential racist violence who don't have the facts. Why can't people wait for the facts.
    The only way in which it could not be true is if they've apprehended the wrong man, which seems highly unlikely. For whatever reason, this person developed a murderous rage against Germans - whether this was islamism, anti-islamism or mental issues doesn't change this fact. It also doesn't change the fact that the authorities were aware of it and failed to act.
    In particular Twitter did nothing about his postings, which were in plain sight, and indeed still are.

    Take this one from August this year, which seems very much not Islamist:

    https://x.com/DrTalebJawad/status/1821207118617203097

    Indeed so far as I can understand his train of thought it is not that he wants to Islamise Germany, but that Germany is deporting Saudi asylum seekers, particularly women, back to Saudi to be imprisoned or killed.
    It’s impossible to follow his train of thought. He’s made some comments in Arabic which directly contradict stuff he’s said in English. I think he might simply be a criminal nutter who PROBABLY faked apostasy to avoid extradition, and he has developed a bizarre, murderous grudge against Germany and Germans


    If he was that anti-Islam or Saudi surely he would have attacked a mosque or an embassy

    Instead he attacked a Christmas market?! He also did it on the anniversary - I think - of a known jihadi attack against a German Xmas market
    Remember kids:

    If a white Christian kills a bunch of people, it's because he's mentally ill.

    If a brown Muslim does it, it's because he's motivated by Islam.
    Ahem.


  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,945
    This is slightly ridiculous.

    "A 77-year-old environmental activist will spend Christmas in prison despite having been released on an electronic tag, because the authorities cannot find an electronic device small enough to fit her wrists.

    Gaie Delap, a retired teacher and a Quaker from Bristol, was jailed in August, along with four co-defendants, for her part in a campaign of disruptive Just Stop Oil protests on the M25 in November 2022.

    She was released in November to serve the rest of her sentence under a home detention curfew. But the private company contracted to fit the tag to Delap was unable to attach one to her ankle because of a health condition and did not have a tag available small enough to fit wrists her size."

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/dec/21/elderly-activist-to-spend-christmas-in-prison-because-tag-does-not-fit
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,709
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    This horror in Germany.

    Just imagine the kind of reaction on social media if that had happened in the U.K. I fear the usual suspects would be gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tension and cleiming conspiracies if challenged.

    I hope Germany is spared that.

    We’ve already got the usual suspects here gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tensions and claiming conspiracies if challenged. I’m absolutely sure there are German equivalents doing the same on German social media, sadly.
    Yes, the convolutions have been remarkable. Last night the usual suspects assumed that the unhinged Saudi doctor carried out the atrocity in the name of jihad. But the narrative had to change slightly when it became reasonably clear that this was unlikely to be the case, and his apparent influences included AfD etc. Not to be defeated, it turns out that it was a double bluff, as he was obviously hiding his jidahism in other guises. Stunning.
    Like everybody else, I've no idea what his motives were at the moment.
    If you’ve got no idea what his motives are, how come you nonetheless KNOW he’s not anyway influenced by jihadism?
    Rather than jumping to conclusions here and on twitter and where ever else, which can and does stimulate reactions, some of which can be quite serious eg riot, arson, murder, etc why not just wait for the facts to become clear and then one can be justifiably outraged at whatever is the cause, whether that be jihadi, fascist or whatever tenancies.
    At the end of the day it was a failure of the state to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence. Attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game.
    You don't know that. You are also jumping to conclusions. He could be a jihadist, he could be a right wing zealot or as in many cases in the past it could simply be someone will mental problems. However rushing to conclusions of either the first two often starts riots, arson and even murder.
    Yes I do know that, and so do you. You seem to be in denial.
    In the very unlikely event I am ever tried for something I hope to god you are not on the jury. I like to rely on facts and not internet trolls.
    My comment was that the state had failed to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence and that attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game. It's a fact that an act of inter-ethnic violence occured and it's a fact that the state failed to prevent it.
    Again you can't know that. It might well be so. It only happened yesterday and you are just reading posts from people you have no idea you can rely on. The guy clearly has a conflicting background and actions. How do you know he isn't schizophrenic or suffering from some other mental issues?

    You just don't know, yet we tolerate people stirring up potential racist violence who don't have the facts. Why can't people wait for the facts.
    The only way in which it could not be true is if they've apprehended the wrong man, which seems highly unlikely. For whatever reason, this person developed a murderous rage against Germans - whether this was islamism, anti-islamism or mental issues doesn't change this fact. It also doesn't change the fact that the authorities were aware of it and failed to act.
    In particular Twitter did nothing about his postings, which were in plain sight, and indeed still are.

    Take this one from August this year, which seems very much not Islamist:

    https://x.com/DrTalebJawad/status/1821207118617203097

    Indeed so far as I can understand his train of thought it is not that he wants to Islamise Germany, but that Germany is deporting Saudi asylum seekers, particularly women, back to Saudi to be imprisoned or killed.
    It’s impossible to follow his train of thought. He’s made some comments in Arabic which directly contradict stuff he’s said in English. I think he might simply be a criminal nutter who PROBABLY faked apostasy to avoid extradition, and he has developed a bizarre, murderous grudge against Germany and Germans


    If he was that anti-Islam or Saudi surely he would have attacked a mosque or an embassy

    Instead he attacked a Christmas market?! He also did it on the anniversary - I think - of a known jihadi attack against a German Xmas market
    Remember kids:

    If a white Christian kills a bunch of people, it's because he's mentally ill.

    If a brown Muslim does it, it's because he's motivated by Islam.
    What about if it's a brown atheist?

    Or, indeed, a white atheist?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,030
    Andy_JS said:

    This is slightly ridiculous.

    "A 77-year-old environmental activist will spend Christmas in prison despite having been released on an electronic tag, because the authorities cannot find an electronic device small enough to fit her wrists.

    Gaie Delap, a retired teacher and a Quaker from Bristol, was jailed in August, along with four co-defendants, for her part in a campaign of disruptive Just Stop Oil protests on the M25 in November 2022.

    She was released in November to serve the rest of her sentence under a home detention curfew. But the private company contracted to fit the tag to Delap was unable to attach one to her ankle because of a health condition and did not have a tag available small enough to fit wrists her size."

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/dec/21/elderly-activist-to-spend-christmas-in-prison-because-tag-does-not-fit

    Yeah, just have them report to the police station once a day. They are hardly going to run away.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    This horror in Germany.

    Just imagine the kind of reaction on social media if that had happened in the U.K. I fear the usual suspects would be gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tension and cleiming conspiracies if challenged.

    I hope Germany is spared that.

    We’ve already got the usual suspects here gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tensions and claiming conspiracies if challenged. I’m absolutely sure there are German equivalents doing the same on German social media, sadly.
    Yes, the convolutions have been remarkable. Last night the usual suspects assumed that the unhinged Saudi doctor carried out the atrocity in the name of jihad. But the narrative had to change slightly when it became reasonably clear that this was unlikely to be the case, and his apparent influences included AfD etc. Not to be defeated, it turns out that it was a double bluff, as he was obviously hiding his jidahism in other guises. Stunning.
    Like everybody else, I've no idea what his motives were at the moment.
    If you’ve got no idea what his motives are, how come you nonetheless KNOW he’s not anyway influenced by jihadism?
    Rather than jumping to conclusions here and on twitter and where ever else, which can and does stimulate reactions, some of which can be quite serious eg riot, arson, murder, etc why not just wait for the facts to become clear and then one can be justifiably outraged at whatever is the cause, whether that be jihadi, fascist or whatever tenancies.
    At the end of the day it was a failure of the state to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence. Attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game.
    You don't know that. You are also jumping to conclusions. He could be a jihadist, he could be a right wing zealot or as in many cases in the past it could simply be someone will mental problems. However rushing to conclusions of either the first two often starts riots, arson and even murder.
    Yes I do know that, and so do you. You seem to be in denial.
    In the very unlikely event I am ever tried for something I hope to god you are not on the jury. I like to rely on facts and not internet trolls.
    My comment was that the state had failed to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence and that attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game. It's a fact that an act of inter-ethnic violence occured and it's a fact that the state failed to prevent it.
    Again you can't know that. It might well be so. It only happened yesterday and you are just reading posts from people you have no idea you can rely on. The guy clearly has a conflicting background and actions. How do you know he isn't schizophrenic or suffering from some other mental issues?

    You just don't know, yet we tolerate people stirring up potential racist violence who don't have the facts. Why can't people wait for the facts.
    The only way in which it could not be true is if they've apprehended the wrong man, which seems highly unlikely. For whatever reason, this person developed a murderous rage against Germans - whether this was islamism, anti-islamism or mental issues doesn't change this fact. It also doesn't change the fact that the authorities were aware of it and failed to act.
    In particular Twitter did nothing about his postings, which were in plain sight, and indeed still are.

    Take this one from August this year, which seems very much not Islamist:

    https://x.com/DrTalebJawad/status/1821207118617203097

    Indeed so far as I can understand his train of thought it is not that he wants to Islamise Germany, but that Germany is deporting Saudi asylum seekers, particularly women, back to Saudi to be imprisoned or killed.
    It’s impossible to follow his train of thought. He’s made some comments in Arabic which directly contradict stuff he’s said in English. I think he might simply be a criminal nutter who PROBABLY faked apostasy to avoid extradition, and he has developed a bizarre, murderous grudge against Germany and Germans


    If he was that anti-Islam or Saudi surely he would have attacked a mosque or an embassy

    Instead he attacked a Christmas market?! He also did it on the anniversary - I think - of a known jihadi attack against a German Xmas market
    Remember kids:

    If a white Christian kills a bunch of people, it's because he's mentally ill.

    If a brown Muslim does it, it's because he's motivated by Islam.
    I’ve literally just said the opposite. That he’s probably a nutter
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,974

    Elon Musk is still promoting the AfD:

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1870488903452676105

    The traditional political parties in Germany have utterly failed the people.

    🇩🇪 AfD is the only hope for Germany 🇩🇪

    That might be a masturbatory revelation to you but most on here would apply Mandy Rice Davies's observation.
    Plus it's more likely to backfire than help.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,807
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    This horror in Germany.

    Just imagine the kind of reaction on social media if that had happened in the U.K. I fear the usual suspects would be gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tension and cleiming conspiracies if challenged.

    I hope Germany is spared that.

    We’ve already got the usual suspects here gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tensions and claiming conspiracies if challenged. I’m absolutely sure there are German equivalents doing the same on German social media, sadly.
    Yes, the convolutions have been remarkable. Last night the usual suspects assumed that the unhinged Saudi doctor carried out the atrocity in the name of jihad. But the narrative had to change slightly when it became reasonably clear that this was unlikely to be the case, and his apparent influences included AfD etc. Not to be defeated, it turns out that it was a double bluff, as he was obviously hiding his jidahism in other guises. Stunning.
    Like everybody else, I've no idea what his motives were at the moment.
    If you’ve got no idea what his motives are, how come you nonetheless KNOW he’s not anyway influenced by jihadism?
    Rather than jumping to conclusions here and on twitter and where ever else, which can and does stimulate reactions, some of which can be quite serious eg riot, arson, murder, etc why not just wait for the facts to become clear and then one can be justifiably outraged at whatever is the cause, whether that be jihadi, fascist or whatever tenancies.
    At the end of the day it was a failure of the state to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence. Attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game.
    You don't know that. You are also jumping to conclusions. He could be a jihadist, he could be a right wing zealot or as in many cases in the past it could simply be someone will mental problems. However rushing to conclusions of either the first two often starts riots, arson and even murder.
    Yes I do know that, and so do you. You seem to be in denial.
    In the very unlikely event I am ever tried for something I hope to god you are not on the jury. I like to rely on facts and not internet trolls.
    My comment was that the state had failed to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence and that attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game. It's a fact that an act of inter-ethnic violence occured and it's a fact that the state failed to prevent it.
    Again you can't know that. It might well be so. It only happened yesterday and you are just reading posts from people you have no idea you can rely on. The guy clearly has a conflicting background and actions. How do you know he isn't schizophrenic or suffering from some other mental issues?

    You just don't know, yet we tolerate people stirring up potential racist violence who don't have the facts. Why can't people wait for the facts.
    The only way in which it could not be true is if they've apprehended the wrong man, which seems highly unlikely. For whatever reason, this person developed a murderous rage against Germans - whether this was islamism, anti-islamism or mental issues doesn't change this fact. It also doesn't change the fact that the authorities were aware of it and failed to act.
    In particular Twitter did nothing about his postings, which were in plain sight, and indeed still are.

    Take this one from August this year, which seems very much not Islamist:

    https://x.com/DrTalebJawad/status/1821207118617203097

    Indeed so far as I can understand his train of thought it is not that he wants to Islamise Germany, but that Germany is deporting Saudi asylum seekers, particularly women, back to Saudi to be imprisoned or killed.
    It’s impossible to follow his train of thought. He’s made some comments in Arabic which directly contradict stuff he’s said in English. I think he might simply be a criminal nutter who PROBABLY faked apostasy to avoid extradition, and he has developed a bizarre, murderous grudge against Germany and Germans


    If he was that anti-Islam or Saudi surely he would have attacked a mosque or an embassy

    Instead he attacked a Christmas market?! He also did it on the anniversary - I think - of a known jihadi attack against a German Xmas market
    Remember kids:

    If a white Christian kills a bunch of people, it's because he's mentally ill.

    If a brown Muslim does it, it's because he's motivated by Islam.
    I am not sure why you find that dichotomy so strange. Christianity is a faith based around the central tenets of forgiveness and loving thine enemies. Killing is strictly prohibited in the faith. Christians have been warlike peoples but they are not commanded in the Bible to spread their faith at the point of the sword, and it has been many hundreds of years since there were wars to spread Christianity. There is no sect of Christianity that advocates the violent spreading of the faith. None of that is true of Islam.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,114
    edited December 21
    Interesting point of view from history professor Heather Cox Richardson on the dividing line in America between MAGA voters and the rest. It isn't 'left behind' social and economic issues, it's simply which media they consume.

    The information space/silo people live in. In one they are fed "lies in order to make bank".

    "the difference is whether or not they consume Fox News and listen to talk radio. That's it. That's the dividing line. Everyone is like 'whoa, they're left behind' and all that. No they are not."


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMQSs45oXow (≈ 21mins)
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,433

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    This horror in Germany.

    Just imagine the kind of reaction on social media if that had happened in the U.K. I fear the usual suspects would be gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tension and cleiming conspiracies if challenged.

    I hope Germany is spared that.

    We’ve already got the usual suspects here gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tensions and claiming conspiracies if challenged. I’m absolutely sure there are German equivalents doing the same on German social media, sadly.
    Yes, the convolutions have been remarkable. Last night the usual suspects assumed that the unhinged Saudi doctor carried out the atrocity in the name of jihad. But the narrative had to change slightly when it became reasonably clear that this was unlikely to be the case, and his apparent influences included AfD etc. Not to be defeated, it turns out that it was a double bluff, as he was obviously hiding his jidahism in other guises. Stunning.
    Like everybody else, I've no idea what his motives were at the moment.
    If you’ve got no idea what his motives are, how come you nonetheless KNOW he’s not anyway influenced by jihadism?
    Rather than jumping to conclusions here and on twitter and where ever else, which can and does stimulate reactions, some of which can be quite serious eg riot, arson, murder, etc why not just wait for the facts to become clear and then one can be justifiably outraged at whatever is the cause, whether that be jihadi, fascist or whatever tenancies.
    At the end of the day it was a failure of the state to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence. Attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game.
    You don't know that. You are also jumping to conclusions. He could be a jihadist, he could be a right wing zealot or as in many cases in the past it could simply be someone will mental problems. However rushing to conclusions of either the first two often starts riots, arson and even murder.
    Yes I do know that, and so do you. You seem to be in denial.
    In the very unlikely event I am ever tried for something I hope to god you are not on the jury. I like to rely on facts and not internet trolls.
    My comment was that the state had failed to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence and that attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game. It's a fact that an act of inter-ethnic violence occured and it's a fact that the state failed to prevent it.
    Again you can't know that. It might well be so. It only happened yesterday and you are just reading posts from people you have no idea you can rely on. The guy clearly has a conflicting background and actions. How do you know he isn't schizophrenic or suffering from some other mental issues?

    You just don't know, yet we tolerate people stirring up potential racist violence who don't have the facts. Why can't people wait for the facts.
    The only way in which it could not be true is if they've apprehended the wrong man, which seems highly unlikely. For whatever reason, this person developed a murderous rage against Germans - whether this was islamism, anti-islamism or mental issues doesn't change this fact. It also doesn't change the fact that the authorities were aware of it and failed to act.
    In particular Twitter did nothing about his postings, which were in plain sight, and indeed still are.

    Take this one from August this year, which seems very much not Islamist:

    https://x.com/DrTalebJawad/status/1821207118617203097

    Indeed so far as I can understand his train of thought it is not that he wants to Islamise Germany, but that Germany is deporting Saudi asylum seekers, particularly women, back to Saudi to be imprisoned or killed.
    It’s impossible to follow his train of thought. He’s made some comments in Arabic which directly contradict stuff he’s said in English. I think he might simply be a criminal nutter who PROBABLY faked apostasy to avoid extradition, and he has developed a bizarre, murderous grudge against Germany and Germans


    If he was that anti-Islam or Saudi surely he would have attacked a mosque or an embassy

    Instead he attacked a Christmas market?! He also did it on the anniversary - I think - of a known jihadi attack against a German Xmas market
    Remember kids:

    If a white Christian kills a bunch of people, it's because he's mentally ill.

    If a brown Muslim does it, it's because he's motivated by Islam.
    I am not sure why you find that dichotomy so strange. Christianity is a faith based around the central tenets of forgiveness and loving thine enemies. Killing is strictly prohibited in the faith. Christians have been warlike peoples but they are not commanded in the Bible to spread their faith at the point of the sword, and it has been many hundreds of years since there were wars to spread Christianity. There is no sect of Christianity that advocates the violent spreading of the faith. None of that is true of Islam.
    "Christianity is a faith based around the central tenets of forgiveness and loving thine enemies. Killing is strictly prohibited in the faith."

    I think this ignores the way 'Christians' have behaved over the last couple of Millenia in the name of their 'faith'.

    And I disagree about Islam as well. Both are faiths that *could* be good for the world. Both have caused massive amounts of pain and death. It's not the faith: it's the followers and, especially, the people who put themselves in charge.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,420

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    This horror in Germany.

    Just imagine the kind of reaction on social media if that had happened in the U.K. I fear the usual suspects would be gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tension and cleiming conspiracies if challenged.

    I hope Germany is spared that.

    We’ve already got the usual suspects here gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tensions and claiming conspiracies if challenged. I’m absolutely sure there are German equivalents doing the same on German social media, sadly.
    Yes, the convolutions have been remarkable. Last night the usual suspects assumed that the unhinged Saudi doctor carried out the atrocity in the name of jihad. But the narrative had to change slightly when it became reasonably clear that this was unlikely to be the case, and his apparent influences included AfD etc. Not to be defeated, it turns out that it was a double bluff, as he was obviously hiding his jidahism in other guises. Stunning.
    Like everybody else, I've no idea what his motives were at the moment.
    If you’ve got no idea what his motives are, how come you nonetheless KNOW he’s not anyway influenced by jihadism?
    Rather than jumping to conclusions here and on twitter and where ever else, which can and does stimulate reactions, some of which can be quite serious eg riot, arson, murder, etc why not just wait for the facts to become clear and then one can be justifiably outraged at whatever is the cause, whether that be jihadi, fascist or whatever tenancies.
    At the end of the day it was a failure of the state to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence. Attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game.
    You don't know that. You are also jumping to conclusions. He could be a jihadist, he could be a right wing zealot or as in many cases in the past it could simply be someone will mental problems. However rushing to conclusions of either the first two often starts riots, arson and even murder.
    Yes I do know that, and so do you. You seem to be in denial.
    In the very unlikely event I am ever tried for something I hope to god you are not on the jury. I like to rely on facts and not internet trolls.
    My comment was that the state had failed to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence and that attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game. It's a fact that an act of inter-ethnic violence occured and it's a fact that the state failed to prevent it.
    Again you can't know that. It might well be so. It only happened yesterday and you are just reading posts from people you have no idea you can rely on. The guy clearly has a conflicting background and actions. How do you know he isn't schizophrenic or suffering from some other mental issues?

    You just don't know, yet we tolerate people stirring up potential racist violence who don't have the facts. Why can't people wait for the facts.
    The only way in which it could not be true is if they've apprehended the wrong man, which seems highly unlikely. For whatever reason, this person developed a murderous rage against Germans - whether this was islamism, anti-islamism or mental issues doesn't change this fact. It also doesn't change the fact that the authorities were aware of it and failed to act.
    In particular Twitter did nothing about his postings, which were in plain sight, and indeed still are.

    Take this one from August this year, which seems very much not Islamist:

    https://x.com/DrTalebJawad/status/1821207118617203097

    Indeed so far as I can understand his train of thought it is not that he wants to Islamise Germany, but that Germany is deporting Saudi asylum seekers, particularly women, back to Saudi to be imprisoned or killed.
    It’s impossible to follow his train of thought. He’s made some comments in Arabic which directly contradict stuff he’s said in English. I think he might simply be a criminal nutter who PROBABLY faked apostasy to avoid extradition, and he has developed a bizarre, murderous grudge against Germany and Germans


    If he was that anti-Islam or Saudi surely he would have attacked a mosque or an embassy

    Instead he attacked a Christmas market?! He also did it on the anniversary - I think - of a known jihadi attack against a German Xmas market
    Remember kids:

    If a white Christian kills a bunch of people, it's because he's mentally ill.

    If a brown Muslim does it, it's because he's motivated by Islam.
    I am not sure why you find that dichotomy so strange. Christianity is a faith based around the central tenets of forgiveness and loving thine enemies. Killing is strictly prohibited in the faith. Christians have been warlike peoples but they are not commanded in the Bible to spread their faith at the point of the sword, and it has been many hundreds of years since there were wars to spread Christianity. There is no sect of Christianity that advocates the violent spreading of the faith. None of that is true of Islam.
    Deuteronomy 17:12

    Leviticus 20:13

    2 Chronicles 15:12-13

    Deuteronomy 13:13-19

    Romans 1:24-32

    Exodus 31:12-15

    2 Kings 2:23-24

    Isaiah 14:21

    Ezekiel 9:5-7

    Acts 5:1-11
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,433
    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Plenty of Christmas spirit on here this afternoon I see 😂

    Bah, humbug.

    I was quite ill a month ago, and have only just started running and swimming again. Then my father-in-law died a couple of weeks ago. He was an honest, humble and humorous man. Sadly, I did not know him too well. Mrs J is understandably devastated, though the turn-out to his funeral (and the people who turned out at the airport to see his body away) have warmed her. He was thrice the man I am.

    It's not been a very good run-up to Christmas...
    Oh, how awful! RIP to you FIL.

    I've been sick with various bugs and thought I was having a bad pre-Christmas period, but your post puts things in perspective.

    There's always someone having a worse time than you...

    Hope you and Mrs J manage to have a peaceful Christmas, even if it's a sad one.
    Thanks to you and everyone else.

    2024's been slightly worse than that; our son was rushed into intensive care over Easter. As many ten-year olds do though, he bounced back brilliantly. Horrid to experience though.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    I’m here



  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,376

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Plenty of Christmas spirit on here this afternoon I see 😂

    Bah, humbug.

    I was quite ill a month ago, and have only just started running and swimming again. Then my father-in-law died a couple of weeks ago. He was an honest, humble and humorous man. Sadly, I did not know him too well. Mrs J is understandably devastated, though the turn-out to his funeral (and the people who turned out at the airport to see his body away) have warmed her. He was thrice the man I am.

    It's not been a very good run-up to Christmas...
    Oh, how awful! RIP to you FIL.

    I've been sick with various bugs and thought I was having a bad pre-Christmas period, but your post puts things in perspective.

    There's always someone having a worse time than you...

    Hope you and Mrs J manage to have a peaceful Christmas, even if it's a sad one.
    Thanks to you and everyone else.

    2024's been slightly worse than that; our son was rushed into intensive care over Easter. As many ten-year olds do though, he bounced back brilliantly. Horrid to experience though.
    Kids do bounce back amazingly well.

    A peaceful Christmas to you all.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,835
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    This horror in Germany.

    Just imagine the kind of reaction on social media if that had happened in the U.K. I fear the usual suspects would be gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tension and cleiming conspiracies if challenged.

    I hope Germany is spared that.

    We’ve already got the usual suspects here gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tensions and claiming conspiracies if challenged. I’m absolutely sure there are German equivalents doing the same on German social media, sadly.
    Yes, the convolutions have been remarkable. Last night the usual suspects assumed that the unhinged Saudi doctor carried out the atrocity in the name of jihad. But the narrative had to change slightly when it became reasonably clear that this was unlikely to be the case, and his apparent influences included AfD etc. Not to be defeated, it turns out that it was a double bluff, as he was obviously hiding his jidahism in other guises. Stunning.
    Like everybody else, I've no idea what his motives were at the moment.
    If you’ve got no idea what his motives are, how come you nonetheless KNOW he’s not anyway influenced by jihadism?
    Rather than jumping to conclusions here and on twitter and where ever else, which can and does stimulate reactions, some of which can be quite serious eg riot, arson, murder, etc why not just wait for the facts to become clear and then one can be justifiably outraged at whatever is the cause, whether that be jihadi, fascist or whatever tenancies.
    At the end of the day it was a failure of the state to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence. Attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game.
    You don't know that. You are also jumping to conclusions. He could be a jihadist, he could be a right wing zealot or as in many cases in the past it could simply be someone will mental problems. However rushing to conclusions of either the first two often starts riots, arson and even murder.
    Yes I do know that, and so do you. You seem to be in denial.
    In the very unlikely event I am ever tried for something I hope to god you are not on the jury. I like to rely on facts and not internet trolls.
    My comment was that the state had failed to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence and that attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game. It's a fact that an act of inter-ethnic violence occured and it's a fact that the state failed to prevent it.
    Again you can't know that. It might well be so. It only happened yesterday and you are just reading posts from people you have no idea you can rely on. The guy clearly has a conflicting background and actions. How do you know he isn't schizophrenic or suffering from some other mental issues?

    You just don't know, yet we tolerate people stirring up potential racist violence who don't have the facts. Why can't people wait for the facts.
    The only way in which it could not be true is if they've apprehended the wrong man, which seems highly unlikely. For whatever reason, this person developed a murderous rage against Germans - whether this was islamism, anti-islamism or mental issues doesn't change this fact. It also doesn't change the fact that the authorities were aware of it and failed to act.
    In particular Twitter did nothing about his postings, which were in plain sight, and indeed still are.

    Take this one from August this year, which seems very much not Islamist:

    https://x.com/DrTalebJawad/status/1821207118617203097

    Indeed so far as I can understand his train of thought it is not that he wants to Islamise Germany, but that Germany is deporting Saudi asylum seekers, particularly women, back to Saudi to be imprisoned or killed.
    It’s impossible to follow his train of thought. He’s made some comments in Arabic which directly contradict stuff he’s said in English. I think he might simply be a criminal nutter who PROBABLY faked apostasy to avoid extradition, and he has developed a bizarre, murderous grudge against Germany and Germans


    If he was that anti-Islam or Saudi surely he would have attacked a mosque or an embassy

    Instead he attacked a Christmas market?! He also did it on the anniversary - I think - of a known jihadi attack against a German Xmas market
    Remember kids:

    If a white Christian kills a bunch of people, it's because he's mentally ill.

    If a brown Muslim does it, it's because he's motivated by Islam.
    Hey, we wouldn't want to dwell too much on the crossover between mental illness and religious fervor. A touchy subject I would have thought.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,835
    Leon said:

    I’m here



    I thought opium dens were behind you.
  • Shecorns88Shecorns88 Posts: 279
    Be very interesting to find out what Companies Back Bench Nigel from Clacton has set up in the past 30 years and run. After all he received 250k a year as a Full Time Euro MP and 250k expenses.

    We know Reform is a PL not a Political Party.

    The serial spiv may just have opened up a can of worms having been put firmly in his place by The Right Honourable Chancellor of the Exchequer.

  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,143
    carnforth said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    This horror in Germany.

    Just imagine the kind of reaction on social media if that had happened in the U.K. I fear the usual suspects would be gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tension and cleiming conspiracies if challenged.

    I hope Germany is spared that.

    We’ve already got the usual suspects here gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tensions and claiming conspiracies if challenged. I’m absolutely sure there are German equivalents doing the same on German social media, sadly.
    Yes, the convolutions have been remarkable. Last night the usual suspects assumed that the unhinged Saudi doctor carried out the atrocity in the name of jihad. But the narrative had to change slightly when it became reasonably clear that this was unlikely to be the case, and his apparent influences included AfD etc. Not to be defeated, it turns out that it was a double bluff, as he was obviously hiding his jidahism in other guises. Stunning.
    Like everybody else, I've no idea what his motives were at the moment.
    If you’ve got no idea what his motives are, how come you nonetheless KNOW he’s not anyway influenced by jihadism?
    Rather than jumping to conclusions here and on twitter and where ever else, which can and does stimulate reactions, some of which can be quite serious eg riot, arson, murder, etc why not just wait for the facts to become clear and then one can be justifiably outraged at whatever is the cause, whether that be jihadi, fascist or whatever tenancies.
    At the end of the day it was a failure of the state to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence. Attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game.
    You don't know that. You are also jumping to conclusions. He could be a jihadist, he could be a right wing zealot or as in many cases in the past it could simply be someone will mental problems. However rushing to conclusions of either the first two often starts riots, arson and even murder.
    Yes I do know that, and so do you. You seem to be in denial.
    In the very unlikely event I am ever tried for something I hope to god you are not on the jury. I like to rely on facts and not internet trolls.
    My comment was that the state had failed to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence and that attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game. It's a fact that an act of inter-ethnic violence occured and it's a fact that the state failed to prevent it.
    Again you can't know that. It might well be so. It only happened yesterday and you are just reading posts from people you have no idea you can rely on. The guy clearly has a conflicting background and actions. How do you know he isn't schizophrenic or suffering from some other mental issues?

    You just don't know, yet we tolerate people stirring up potential racist violence who don't have the facts. Why can't people wait for the facts.
    The only way in which it could not be true is if they've apprehended the wrong man, which seems highly unlikely. For whatever reason, this person developed a murderous rage against Germans - whether this was islamism, anti-islamism or mental issues doesn't change this fact. It also doesn't change the fact that the authorities were aware of it and failed to act.
    In particular Twitter did nothing about his postings, which were in plain sight, and indeed still are.

    Take this one from August this year, which seems very much not Islamist:

    https://x.com/DrTalebJawad/status/1821207118617203097

    Indeed so far as I can understand his train of thought it is not that he wants to Islamise Germany, but that Germany is deporting Saudi asylum seekers, particularly women, back to Saudi to be imprisoned or killed.
    It’s impossible to follow his train of thought. He’s made some comments in Arabic which directly contradict stuff he’s said in English. I think he might simply be a criminal nutter who PROBABLY faked apostasy to avoid extradition, and he has developed a bizarre, murderous grudge against Germany and Germans


    If he was that anti-Islam or Saudi surely he would have attacked a mosque or an embassy

    Instead he attacked a Christmas market?! He also did it on the anniversary - I think - of a known jihadi attack against a German Xmas market
    Remember kids:

    If a white Christian kills a bunch of people, it's because he's mentally ill.

    If a brown Muslim does it, it's because he's motivated by Islam.
    Hey, we wouldn't want to dwell too much on the crossover between mental illness and religious fervor. A touchy subject I would have thought.
    Indeed, the mentally ill may not wish to be associated with religious fundamentalists.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,114

    ‪Timothy Snyder‬ ‪@timothysnyder.bsky.social‬
    ·
    1h
    The most that can be said about the present moment is that there is disagreement within the Leopards Eating People’s Faces Party about which faces to eat in what order.

    https://bsky.app/profile/timothysnyder.bsky.social/post/3ldtbvdgor22u
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,143

    Interesting point of view from history professor Heather Cox Richardson on the dividing line in America between MAGA voters and the rest. It isn't 'left behind' social and economic issues, it's simply which media they consume.

    The information space/silo people live in. In one they are fed "lies in order to make bank".

    "the difference is whether or not they consume Fox News and listen to talk radio. That's it. That's the dividing line. Everyone is like 'whoa, they're left behind' and all that. No they are not."


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMQSs45oXow (≈ 21mins)

    Hence GBeebies and the dumbing down of the Telegraph and Mail. A cheap way to buy political power and control of trillions of budget allocations.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,778

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    This horror in Germany.

    Just imagine the kind of reaction on social media if that had happened in the U.K. I fear the usual suspects would be gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tension and cleiming conspiracies if challenged.

    I hope Germany is spared that.

    We’ve already got the usual suspects here gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tensions and claiming conspiracies if challenged. I’m absolutely sure there are German equivalents doing the same on German social media, sadly.
    Yes, the convolutions have been remarkable. Last night the usual suspects assumed that the unhinged Saudi doctor carried out the atrocity in the name of jihad. But the narrative had to change slightly when it became reasonably clear that this was unlikely to be the case, and his apparent influences included AfD etc. Not to be defeated, it turns out that it was a double bluff, as he was obviously hiding his jidahism in other guises. Stunning.
    Like everybody else, I've no idea what his motives were at the moment.
    If you’ve got no idea what his motives are, how come you nonetheless KNOW he’s not anyway influenced by jihadism?
    Rather than jumping to conclusions here and on twitter and where ever else, which can and does stimulate reactions, some of which can be quite serious eg riot, arson, murder, etc why not just wait for the facts to become clear and then one can be justifiably outraged at whatever is the cause, whether that be jihadi, fascist or whatever tenancies.
    At the end of the day it was a failure of the state to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence. Attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game.
    You don't know that. You are also jumping to conclusions. He could be a jihadist, he could be a right wing zealot or as in many cases in the past it could simply be someone will mental problems. However rushing to conclusions of either the first two often starts riots, arson and even murder.
    Yes I do know that, and so do you. You seem to be in denial.
    In the very unlikely event I am ever tried for something I hope to god you are not on the jury. I like to rely on facts and not internet trolls.
    My comment was that the state had failed to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence and that attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game. It's a fact that an act of inter-ethnic violence occured and it's a fact that the state failed to prevent it.
    Again you can't know that. It might well be so. It only happened yesterday and you are just reading posts from people you have no idea you can rely on. The guy clearly has a conflicting background and actions. How do you know he isn't schizophrenic or suffering from some other mental issues?

    You just don't know, yet we tolerate people stirring up potential racist violence who don't have the facts. Why can't people wait for the facts.
    The only way in which it could not be true is if they've apprehended the wrong man, which seems highly unlikely. For whatever reason, this person developed a murderous rage against Germans - whether this was islamism, anti-islamism or mental issues doesn't change this fact. It also doesn't change the fact that the authorities were aware of it and failed to act.
    In particular Twitter did nothing about his postings, which were in plain sight, and indeed still are.

    Take this one from August this year, which seems very much not Islamist:

    https://x.com/DrTalebJawad/status/1821207118617203097

    Indeed so far as I can understand his train of thought it is not that he wants to Islamise Germany, but that Germany is deporting Saudi asylum seekers, particularly women, back to Saudi to be imprisoned or killed.
    It’s impossible to follow his train of thought. He’s made some comments in Arabic which directly contradict stuff he’s said in English. I think he might simply be a criminal nutter who PROBABLY faked apostasy to avoid extradition, and he has developed a bizarre, murderous grudge against Germany and Germans


    If he was that anti-Islam or Saudi surely he would have attacked a mosque or an embassy

    Instead he attacked a Christmas market?! He also did it on the anniversary - I think - of a known jihadi attack against a German Xmas market
    Remember kids:

    If a white Christian kills a bunch of people, it's because he's mentally ill.

    If a brown Muslim does it, it's because he's motivated by Islam.
    I am not sure why you find that dichotomy so strange. Christianity is a faith based around the central tenets of forgiveness and loving thine enemies. Killing is strictly prohibited in the faith. Christians have been warlike peoples but they are not commanded in the Bible to spread their faith at the point of the sword, and it has been many hundreds of years since there were wars to spread Christianity. There is no sect of Christianity that advocates the violent spreading of the faith. None of that is true of Islam.
    Deuteronomy 17:12

    Leviticus 20:13

    2 Chronicles 15:12-13

    Deuteronomy 13:13-19

    Romans 1:24-32

    Exodus 31:12-15

    2 Kings 2:23-24

    Isaiah 14:21

    Ezekiel 9:5-7

    Acts 5:1-11
    Don't forget that beautiful psalm, number 137, ending:
    "O daughter of Babylon, who art to be destroyed; happy shall he be, that rewardeth thee as thou hast served us. Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones."
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,082

    Be very interesting to find out what Companies Back Bench Nigel from Clacton has set up in the past 30 years and run. After all he received 250k a year as a Full Time Euro MP and 250k expenses.

    We know Reform is a PL not a Political Party.

    The serial spiv may just have opened up a can of worms having been put firmly in his place by The Right Honourable Chancellor of the Exchequer.

    MEPs are not full time. In fact some of them have set records for non attendance.

    They did react very fast to deal with the potential fallout of the U.K. Parliamentary Expenses Scandal. They passed a law, in a day, making leaking MEPs expenses illegal.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,082

    carnforth said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    This horror in Germany.

    Just imagine the kind of reaction on social media if that had happened in the U.K. I fear the usual suspects would be gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tension and cleiming conspiracies if challenged.

    I hope Germany is spared that.

    We’ve already got the usual suspects here gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tensions and claiming conspiracies if challenged. I’m absolutely sure there are German equivalents doing the same on German social media, sadly.
    Yes, the convolutions have been remarkable. Last night the usual suspects assumed that the unhinged Saudi doctor carried out the atrocity in the name of jihad. But the narrative had to change slightly when it became reasonably clear that this was unlikely to be the case, and his apparent influences included AfD etc. Not to be defeated, it turns out that it was a double bluff, as he was obviously hiding his jidahism in other guises. Stunning.
    Like everybody else, I've no idea what his motives were at the moment.
    If you’ve got no idea what his motives are, how come you nonetheless KNOW he’s not anyway influenced by jihadism?
    Rather than jumping to conclusions here and on twitter and where ever else, which can and does stimulate reactions, some of which can be quite serious eg riot, arson, murder, etc why not just wait for the facts to become clear and then one can be justifiably outraged at whatever is the cause, whether that be jihadi, fascist or whatever tenancies.
    At the end of the day it was a failure of the state to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence. Attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game.
    You don't know that. You are also jumping to conclusions. He could be a jihadist, he could be a right wing zealot or as in many cases in the past it could simply be someone will mental problems. However rushing to conclusions of either the first two often starts riots, arson and even murder.
    Yes I do know that, and so do you. You seem to be in denial.
    In the very unlikely event I am ever tried for something I hope to god you are not on the jury. I like to rely on facts and not internet trolls.
    My comment was that the state had failed to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence and that attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game. It's a fact that an act of inter-ethnic violence occured and it's a fact that the state failed to prevent it.
    Again you can't know that. It might well be so. It only happened yesterday and you are just reading posts from people you have no idea you can rely on. The guy clearly has a conflicting background and actions. How do you know he isn't schizophrenic or suffering from some other mental issues?

    You just don't know, yet we tolerate people stirring up potential racist violence who don't have the facts. Why can't people wait for the facts.
    The only way in which it could not be true is if they've apprehended the wrong man, which seems highly unlikely. For whatever reason, this person developed a murderous rage against Germans - whether this was islamism, anti-islamism or mental issues doesn't change this fact. It also doesn't change the fact that the authorities were aware of it and failed to act.
    In particular Twitter did nothing about his postings, which were in plain sight, and indeed still are.

    Take this one from August this year, which seems very much not Islamist:

    https://x.com/DrTalebJawad/status/1821207118617203097

    Indeed so far as I can understand his train of thought it is not that he wants to Islamise Germany, but that Germany is deporting Saudi asylum seekers, particularly women, back to Saudi to be imprisoned or killed.
    It’s impossible to follow his train of thought. He’s made some comments in Arabic which directly contradict stuff he’s said in English. I think he might simply be a criminal nutter who PROBABLY faked apostasy to avoid extradition, and he has developed a bizarre, murderous grudge against Germany and Germans


    If he was that anti-Islam or Saudi surely he would have attacked a mosque or an embassy

    Instead he attacked a Christmas market?! He also did it on the anniversary - I think - of a known jihadi attack against a German Xmas market
    Remember kids:

    If a white Christian kills a bunch of people, it's because he's mentally ill.

    If a brown Muslim does it, it's because he's motivated by Islam.
    Hey, we wouldn't want to dwell too much on the crossover between mental illness and religious fervor. A touchy subject I would have thought.
    Indeed, the mentally ill may not wish to be associated with religious fundamentalists.
    +36

    That is 36 of my personalities agree with this statement.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,268

    Interesting point of view from history professor Heather Cox Richardson on the dividing line in America between MAGA voters and the rest. It isn't 'left behind' social and economic issues, it's simply which media they consume.

    The information space/silo people live in. In one they are fed "lies in order to make bank".

    "the difference is whether or not they consume Fox News and listen to talk radio. That's it. That's the dividing line. Everyone is like 'whoa, they're left behind' and all that. No they are not."


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMQSs45oXow (≈ 21mins)

    It's not very objective if you start from the premise that voting for the Republicans/Trump is a pathology that needs to be diagnosed.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,744


    ‪Timothy Snyder‬ ‪@timothysnyder.bsky.social‬
    ·
    1h
    The most that can be said about the present moment is that there is disagreement within the Leopards Eating People’s Faces Party about which faces to eat in what order.

    https://bsky.app/profile/timothysnyder.bsky.social/post/3ldtbvdgor22u

    It's hard to get them to agree because it's like herding cats.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,495

    2025 is the big five o for me so I imagine I'll be having a midlife crisis next year.

    Lucky you I am 20 ahead
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,778
    Driver said:

    Louisiana forbids public health workers from promoting COVID, flu and mpox shots https://www.npr.org/sections/shots-health-news/2024/12/20/nx-s1-5223440/louisiana-ban-public-health-promoting-covid-flu-mpox-vaccines-landry-rfk-jr-anti-vaccine

    How many Americans are the Republican Party going to kill?

    Interesting bit in that, showing the bias that calls the entire article into question:

    The statement said that the flu vaccine can reduce illness severity and therefore may help high-risk patients — but falsely claimed "the flu vaccine does not prevent one from getting the influenza virus." According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the vaccine reduces the risk of getting the flu.

    What on earth is the word "falsely" doing there? Something which reduces but does not eliminate the risk of X cannot fairly be said to prevent X.
    Of course it will prevent it, in many cases, if it reduces the probability of its happening.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,143

    carnforth said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    This horror in Germany.

    Just imagine the kind of reaction on social media if that had happened in the U.K. I fear the usual suspects would be gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tension and cleiming conspiracies if challenged.

    I hope Germany is spared that.

    We’ve already got the usual suspects here gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tensions and claiming conspiracies if challenged. I’m absolutely sure there are German equivalents doing the same on German social media, sadly.
    Yes, the convolutions have been remarkable. Last night the usual suspects assumed that the unhinged Saudi doctor carried out the atrocity in the name of jihad. But the narrative had to change slightly when it became reasonably clear that this was unlikely to be the case, and his apparent influences included AfD etc. Not to be defeated, it turns out that it was a double bluff, as he was obviously hiding his jidahism in other guises. Stunning.
    Like everybody else, I've no idea what his motives were at the moment.
    If you’ve got no idea what his motives are, how come you nonetheless KNOW he’s not anyway influenced by jihadism?
    Rather than jumping to conclusions here and on twitter and where ever else, which can and does stimulate reactions, some of which can be quite serious eg riot, arson, murder, etc why not just wait for the facts to become clear and then one can be justifiably outraged at whatever is the cause, whether that be jihadi, fascist or whatever tenancies.
    At the end of the day it was a failure of the state to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence. Attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game.
    You don't know that. You are also jumping to conclusions. He could be a jihadist, he could be a right wing zealot or as in many cases in the past it could simply be someone will mental problems. However rushing to conclusions of either the first two often starts riots, arson and even murder.
    Yes I do know that, and so do you. You seem to be in denial.
    In the very unlikely event I am ever tried for something I hope to god you are not on the jury. I like to rely on facts and not internet trolls.
    My comment was that the state had failed to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence and that attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game. It's a fact that an act of inter-ethnic violence occured and it's a fact that the state failed to prevent it.
    Again you can't know that. It might well be so. It only happened yesterday and you are just reading posts from people you have no idea you can rely on. The guy clearly has a conflicting background and actions. How do you know he isn't schizophrenic or suffering from some other mental issues?

    You just don't know, yet we tolerate people stirring up potential racist violence who don't have the facts. Why can't people wait for the facts.
    The only way in which it could not be true is if they've apprehended the wrong man, which seems highly unlikely. For whatever reason, this person developed a murderous rage against Germans - whether this was islamism, anti-islamism or mental issues doesn't change this fact. It also doesn't change the fact that the authorities were aware of it and failed to act.
    In particular Twitter did nothing about his postings, which were in plain sight, and indeed still are.

    Take this one from August this year, which seems very much not Islamist:

    https://x.com/DrTalebJawad/status/1821207118617203097

    Indeed so far as I can understand his train of thought it is not that he wants to Islamise Germany, but that Germany is deporting Saudi asylum seekers, particularly women, back to Saudi to be imprisoned or killed.
    It’s impossible to follow his train of thought. He’s made some comments in Arabic which directly contradict stuff he’s said in English. I think he might simply be a criminal nutter who PROBABLY faked apostasy to avoid extradition, and he has developed a bizarre, murderous grudge against Germany and Germans


    If he was that anti-Islam or Saudi surely he would have attacked a mosque or an embassy

    Instead he attacked a Christmas market?! He also did it on the anniversary - I think - of a known jihadi attack against a German Xmas market
    Remember kids:

    If a white Christian kills a bunch of people, it's because he's mentally ill.

    If a brown Muslim does it, it's because he's motivated by Islam.
    Hey, we wouldn't want to dwell too much on the crossover between mental illness and religious fervor. A touchy subject I would have thought.
    Indeed, the mentally ill may not wish to be associated with religious fundamentalists.
    +36

    That is 36 of my personalities agree with this statement.
    They may not with to be associated with Leon either.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,495
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    This horror in Germany.

    Just imagine the kind of reaction on social media if that had happened in the U.K. I fear the usual suspects would be gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tension and cleiming conspiracies if challenged.

    I hope Germany is spared that.

    We’ve already got the usual suspects here gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tensions and claiming conspiracies if challenged. I’m absolutely sure there are German equivalents doing the same on German social media, sadly.
    Yes, the convolutions have been remarkable. Last night the usual suspects assumed that the unhinged Saudi doctor carried out the atrocity in the name of jihad. But the narrative had to change slightly when it became reasonably clear that this was unlikely to be the case, and his apparent influences included AfD etc. Not to be defeated, it turns out that it was a double bluff, as he was obviously hiding his jidahism in other guises. Stunning.
    Like everybody else, I've no idea what his motives were at the moment.
    If you’ve got no idea what his motives are, how come you nonetheless KNOW he’s not anyway influenced by jihadism?
    Rather than jumping to conclusions here and on twitter and where ever else, which can and does stimulate reactions, some of which can be quite serious eg riot, arson, murder, etc why not just wait for the facts to become clear and then one can be justifiably outraged at whatever is the cause, whether that be jihadi, fascist or whatever tenancies.
    At the end of the day it was a failure of the state to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence. Attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game.
    You don't know that. You are also jumping to conclusions. He could be a jihadist, he could be a right wing zealot or as in many cases in the past it could simply be someone will mental problems. However rushing to conclusions of either the first two often starts riots, arson and even murder.
    Yes I do know that, and so do you. You seem to be in denial.
    In the very unlikely event I am ever tried for something I hope to god you are not on the jury. I like to rely on facts and not internet trolls.
    My comment was that the state had failed to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence and that attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game. It's a fact that an act of inter-ethnic violence occured and it's a fact that the state failed to prevent it.
    Again you can't know that. It might well be so. It only happened yesterday and you are just reading posts from people you have no idea you can rely on. The guy clearly has a conflicting background and actions. How do you know he isn't schizophrenic or suffering from some other mental issues?

    You just don't know, yet we tolerate people stirring up potential racist violence who don't have the facts. Why can't people wait for the facts.
    The only way in which it could not be true is if they've apprehended the wrong man, which seems highly unlikely. For whatever reason, this person developed a murderous rage against Germans - whether this was islamism, anti-islamism or mental issues doesn't change this fact. It also doesn't change the fact that the authorities were aware of it and failed to act.
    In particular Twitter did nothing about his postings, which were in plain sight, and indeed still are.

    Take this one from August this year, which seems very much not Islamist:

    https://x.com/DrTalebJawad/status/1821207118617203097

    Indeed so far as I can understand his train of thought it is not that he wants to Islamise Germany, but that Germany is deporting Saudi asylum seekers, particularly women, back to Saudi to be imprisoned or killed.
    It’s impossible to follow his train of thought. He’s made some comments in Arabic which directly contradict stuff he’s said in English. I think he might simply be a criminal nutter who PROBABLY faked apostasy to avoid extradition, and he has developed a bizarre, murderous grudge against Germany and Germans


    If he was that anti-Islam or Saudi surely he would have attacked a mosque or an embassy

    Instead he attacked a Christmas market?! He also did it on the anniversary - I think - of a known jihadi attack against a German Xmas market
    Remember kids:

    If a white Christian kills a bunch of people, it's because he's mentally ill.

    If a brown Muslim does it, it's because he's motivated by Islam.
    Confucious says
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,974
    edited December 21
    Chris said:

    Driver said:

    Louisiana forbids public health workers from promoting COVID, flu and mpox shots https://www.npr.org/sections/shots-health-news/2024/12/20/nx-s1-5223440/louisiana-ban-public-health-promoting-covid-flu-mpox-vaccines-landry-rfk-jr-anti-vaccine

    How many Americans are the Republican Party going to kill?

    Interesting bit in that, showing the bias that calls the entire article into question:

    The statement said that the flu vaccine can reduce illness severity and therefore may help high-risk patients — but falsely claimed "the flu vaccine does not prevent one from getting the influenza virus." According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the vaccine reduces the risk of getting the flu.

    What on earth is the word "falsely" doing there? Something which reduces but does not eliminate the risk of X cannot fairly be said to prevent X.
    Of course it will prevent it, in many cases, if it reduces the probability of its happening.
    But not in any specific case.

    And, of course, note Foxy's comment on the difference between contracting a virus and developing a clinical disease - this distinction does still exist, no matter how hard the "experts" tried to erase it during the panic.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,495

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Plenty of Christmas spirit on here this afternoon I see 😂

    Bah, humbug.

    I was quite ill a month ago, and have only just started running and swimming again. Then my father-in-law died a couple of weeks ago. He was an honest, humble and humorous man. Sadly, I did not know him too well. Mrs J is understandably devastated, though the turn-out to his funeral (and the people who turned out at the airport to see his body away) have warmed her. He was thrice the man I am.

    It's not been a very good run-up to Christmas...
    Oh, how awful! RIP to you FIL.

    I've been sick with various bugs and thought I was having a bad pre-Christmas period, but your post puts things in perspective.

    There's always someone having a worse time than you...

    Hope you and Mrs J manage to have a peaceful Christmas, even if it's a sad one.
    Thanks to you and everyone else.

    2024's been slightly worse than that; our son was rushed into intensive care over Easter. As many ten-year olds do though, he bounced back brilliantly. Horrid to experience though.
    You will be looking forward to seeing the backend of 2024 then. Hopefully a better 2025 awaits.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    This is stunning
  • Shecorns88Shecorns88 Posts: 279

    Be very interesting to find out what Companies Back Bench Nigel from Clacton has set up in the past 30 years and run. After all he received 250k a year as a Full Time Euro MP and 250k expenses.

    We know Reform is a PL not a Political Party.

    The serial spiv may just have opened up a can of worms having been put firmly in his place by The Right Honourable Chancellor of the Exchequer.

    MEPs are not full time. In fact some of them have set records for non attendance.

    They did react very fast to deal with the potential fallout of the U.K. Parliamentary Expenses Scandal. They passed a law, in a day, making leaking MEPs expenses illegal.
    Nigel might have opened up a can of worms with his lie that he's been running businesses successfully for 30 years.

    Massive exaggeration

    Secretary and Director of Farage Ltd both positions resigned

    Director of Go Movement Ltd lasted 3 months

    Director of UKIP resigned

    Currently a Director of

    Farage Media Ltd
    Reform Party UK
    Thorn in the Side*

    Alleged a tax evasion company set up by the Daily Mail no less.

    So the spiv cancer con man is just that.

    A lying spiv cancer con man.

    Never had a proper job in his life.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,709
    Very close to breaking Wednesday's record for wind power - 22.17 GW against 22.5.

    Which in turn broke last Sunday's record of 22.4 GW.

    Been a funny few weeks for wind power.
  • malcolmg said:

    2025 is the big five o for me so I imagine I'll be having a midlife crisis next year.

    Lucky you I am 20 ahead
    I am 30 ahead !!!!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    I’m here



    I thought opium dens were behind you.
    It’s “Lost in Light” - really magnificent conceptual art exhibition


    https://www.shortlist.com/news/londons-lost-in-light-immersive-art-installation-has-big-close-encounters-energy-404947
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,495
    Leon said:

    This is stunning

    Is it a secret
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,012
    One thing we don't have enough of in our politics is people who really know their brief inside out. And in choosing Siddiq to be our anti corruption Minister Starmer has gone for a member of a family who know everything there is to know about corruption. The family is facing corruption allegations of £3.4bn in Bangladesh. I mean that is professional, no wonder he has expressed confidence in her expertise.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp3zqen209go
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,495

    malcolmg said:

    2025 is the big five o for me so I imagine I'll be having a midlife crisis next year.

    Lucky you I am 20 ahead
    I am 30 ahead !!!!
    G not a competition we want to win, I would much prefer 50
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,433

    malcolmg said:

    2025 is the big five o for me so I imagine I'll be having a midlife crisis next year.

    Lucky you I am 20 ahead
    I am 30 ahead !!!!
    I'll be a mere two years ahead. I'm aiming to do a few Olympic-distance triathlons, so you're never too old"
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    This is the closest I’ve got to drugs without actual drugs
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,877
    edited December 21
    Let me repeat a question from yesterday, since you had nearly gone to bed early.

    What exactly is a decent, mid range restaurant chain in the UK? Can you name say 6 or 8 such chains? And how do you define the price point - in London and in the provinces?

    Are we saying £20-30 per head for 3 (or perhaps 2) courses, or £40-50? (Without wine).

    20 years when I was living off Chiswick High Road I would reach for names like Zizzi, iTs Italian, at a £13-20 price level, and several others at somewhat higher prices. And I would expect to get something more interesting at local independents if I knew the area.

    Now I think the best mid-range attractive chain, according to me, I can come up with, is probably Bill's Restaurant. Otherwise, what about Carluccio or Gaucho? I'm tempted to add Wagamama, which is reliable but samey, and a place where you - or at least I - can suddenly spend an extra 50% before I notice.

    I'd like to hear some more suggestions.

    I see that we are still missing full stops ∴ here's an ellipsis ...
  • Be very interesting to find out what Companies Back Bench Nigel from Clacton has set up in the past 30 years and run. After all he received 250k a year as a Full Time Euro MP and 250k expenses.

    We know Reform is a PL not a Political Party.

    The serial spiv may just have opened up a can of worms having been put firmly in his place by The Right Honourable Chancellor of the Exchequer.

    I assume you are referring to this comment and her self awareness is astonishing having produced a jobs and growth destroying budget

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/1870507547892850931?t=c4uLAziiOIvSUTCBm_Wxww&s=19
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,709
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    2025 is the big five o for me so I imagine I'll be having a midlife crisis next year.

    Lucky you I am 20 ahead
    I am 30 ahead !!!!
    G not a competition we want to win, I would much prefer 50
    A man of my acquaintance was once told by an elderly friend, 'You don't want to be 85, believe me.'

    'Well, not at the moment,' replied my friend, 'but I bet I change my mind when I'm 84.'
  • Shecorns88Shecorns88 Posts: 279
    DavidL said:

    One thing we don't have enough of in our politics is people who really know their brief inside out. And in choosing Siddiq to be our anti corruption Minister Starmer has gone for a member of a family who know everything there is to know about corruption. The family is facing corruption allegations of £3.4bn in Bangladesh. I mean that is professional, no wonder he has expressed confidence in her expertise.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp3zqen209go

    An allegation made by a political rival of one of her relatives.

    Never registered on radar until repeated by colleague of Musk on X
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,082
    DavidL said:

    One thing we don't have enough of in our politics is people who really know their brief inside out. And in choosing Siddiq to be our anti corruption Minister Starmer has gone for a member of a family who know everything there is to know about corruption. The family is facing corruption allegations of £3.4bn in Bangladesh. I mean that is professional, no wonder he has expressed confidence in her expertise.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp3zqen209go

    As I said the other day that reminds me of Charles II appointing Henry Morgan to get rid of piracy.

    “What’s your plan?”
    “Arrest all my friends”
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,032
    Leon said:

    On another note - I did a post on a subreddit the other day, and it was read by..... two million people

    This is not so aberrant, either. I've had quite a few posts hit the 100,000s, even high 100,000s

    This is not to blow my own trumpet, or even to get my own horn section into the recording studio, it's a measure of how powerful Reddit has become. We ignore it as we discuss, X, Facebook. Insta, and all the weirdo Woke creepy sandal-wearing pervs on Bluesky, and yet Reddit has quietly become intensely influential

    It has been for ages, in 2016 it was r/thedonald which really helped Trump supporters organise and coordinate their messaging. Again while Hilary was doing traditional media Bernie and Trump were harnessing social media, Bernie almost did it too even with the whole Democratic establishment sabotaging his campaign and fixing it for Hilary. In retrospect it was such a huge error because Bernie probably would have beaten Trump.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,609
    edited December 21
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    2025 is the big five o for me so I imagine I'll be having a midlife crisis next year.

    Lucky you I am 20 ahead
    I am 30 ahead !!!!
    G not a competition we want to win, I would much prefer 50
    I don't know Malc

    Tempus fugit and we just need to adapt though this last year has been difficult health wise for me, and especially my very special wife who has carried so much worry but been fantastic to me
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,709

    DavidL said:

    One thing we don't have enough of in our politics is people who really know their brief inside out. And in choosing Siddiq to be our anti corruption Minister Starmer has gone for a member of a family who know everything there is to know about corruption. The family is facing corruption allegations of £3.4bn in Bangladesh. I mean that is professional, no wonder he has expressed confidence in her expertise.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp3zqen209go

    As I said the other day that reminds me of Charles II appointing Henry Morgan to get rid of piracy.

    “What’s your plan?”
    “Arrest all my friends”
    He knew where they hung out.
  • ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    2025 is the big five o for me so I imagine I'll be having a midlife crisis next year.

    Lucky you I am 20 ahead
    I am 30 ahead !!!!
    G not a competition we want to win, I would much prefer 50
    A man of my acquaintance was once told by an elderly friend, 'You don't want to be 85, believe me.'

    'Well, not at the moment,' replied my friend, 'but I bet I change my mind when I'm 84.'
    My wife has just having had her 85th
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,895
    edited December 21

    Interesting point of view from history professor Heather Cox Richardson on the dividing line in America between MAGA voters and the rest. It isn't 'left behind' social and economic issues, it's simply which media they consume.

    The information space/silo people live in. In one they are fed "lies in order to make bank".

    "the difference is whether or not they consume Fox News and listen to talk radio. That's it. That's the dividing line. Everyone is like 'whoa, they're left behind' and all that. No they are not."


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMQSs45oXow (≈ 21mins)

    Is not the causality likely to be the other way round, to an extent? People with MAGA views will find CNN and the New York Times intolerable and vice versa.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,433
    malcolmg said:

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Plenty of Christmas spirit on here this afternoon I see 😂

    Bah, humbug.

    I was quite ill a month ago, and have only just started running and swimming again. Then my father-in-law died a couple of weeks ago. He was an honest, humble and humorous man. Sadly, I did not know him too well. Mrs J is understandably devastated, though the turn-out to his funeral (and the people who turned out at the airport to see his body away) have warmed her. He was thrice the man I am.

    It's not been a very good run-up to Christmas...
    Oh, how awful! RIP to you FIL.

    I've been sick with various bugs and thought I was having a bad pre-Christmas period, but your post puts things in perspective.

    There's always someone having a worse time than you...

    Hope you and Mrs J manage to have a peaceful Christmas, even if it's a sad one.
    Thanks to you and everyone else.

    2024's been slightly worse than that; our son was rushed into intensive care over Easter. As many ten-year olds do though, he bounced back brilliantly. Horrid to experience though.
    You will be looking forward to seeing the backend of 2024 then. Hopefully a better 2025 awaits.
    Thanks. But you won't believe that 2024 has had another minor kick in the teeth. We've had our son's best friend, and his best friend's sister, around for a playdate this afternoon, as their parents get ready to go away for Christmas. Because I've been ill, it's the first time they've been around since we got the kittens.

    And over time, our son's best friend started coughing. Then had the sniffles. Then his eyes started watering.

    Yes, it appears he is allergic to cats. Despite having been around cats at other friends' houses...

    Mrs J is really, really upset.

    I'm "well, at least he's okay, at home, and he now knows to avoid cats." I don't think there's much we could have done aside from what we did. Although it makes future play dates problematic...
  • DavidL said:

    One thing we don't have enough of in our politics is people who really know their brief inside out. And in choosing Siddiq to be our anti corruption Minister Starmer has gone for a member of a family who know everything there is to know about corruption. The family is facing corruption allegations of £3.4bn in Bangladesh. I mean that is professional, no wonder he has expressed confidence in her expertise.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp3zqen209go

    An allegation made by a political rival of one of her relatives.

    Never registered on radar until repeated by colleague of Musk on X
    The BBC have the story

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cp3zqen209go
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,433
    ydoethur said:

    Reminds me of the grand Soviet joke about God:

    A peasant was working on a collective farm, when Stalin drove up. 'Are you well, have you enough potatoes?' Stalin barked.

    'Enough?' said the peasant. 'Why, if we made a line of our potatoes this year they would stretch to the foot of God!'

    'Comrade Peasant, there is no God!' snapped Stalin.

    'Well, maybe,' said the peasant, 'but that's fine, there are no potatoes either.'
    An old 'Soviet' joke my dad would tell me as a kid:

    A commissar visits a small household plot. "Comrade!" He asks the owner, "what would you do if you had two houses?"
    "I'd give one to the state!"
    "And if you had two tractors?"
    "I'd give one to the state!"
    "And if you had two cows?"
    "I'd keep them!"
    "Why, comrade?"
    "Because I have two cows!"
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,895
    edited December 21
    ydoethur said:

    Very close to breaking Wednesday's record for wind power - 22.17 GW against 22.5.

    Which in turn broke last Sunday's record of 22.4 GW.

    Been a funny few weeks for wind power.

    Wind on the Irish grid was forecast to reach nearly 20% above the previous record, but it can't make it that high because it seems to be limited to 75% of the grid supply, and there isn't enough storage to soak up the excess.

    It's a nice problem to have, but it's been like this for years now, and precious little is being done about it, and that slowly. It will be interesting to see whether Britain manages that more adroitly.

    https://www.smartgriddashboard.com/#all/wind
  • sladeslade Posts: 2,080

    malcolmg said:

    2025 is the big five o for me so I imagine I'll be having a midlife crisis next year.

    Lucky you I am 20 ahead
    I am 30 ahead !!!!
    So am I.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,142
    MattW said:

    Let me repeat a question from yesterday, since you had nearly gone to bed early.

    What exactly is a decent, mid range restaurant chain in the UK? Can you name say 6 or 8 such chains? And how do you define the price point - in London and in the provinces?

    Are we saying £20-30 per head for 3 (or perhaps 2) courses, or £40-50? (Without wine).

    20 years when I was living off Chiswick High Road I would reach for names like Zizzi, iTs Italian, at a £13-20 price level, and several others at somewhat higher prices. And I would expect to get something more interesting at local independents if I knew the area.

    Now I think the best mid-range attractive chain, according to me, I can come up with, is probably Bill's Restaurant. Otherwise, what about Carluccio or Gaucho? I'm tempted to add Wagamama, which is reliable but samey, and a place where you - or at least I - can suddenly spend an extra 50% before I notice.

    I'd like to hear some more suggestions.

    I see that we are still missing full stops ∴ here's an ellipsis ...

    Cote - which is tremendous value, especially if you have their Prix Fixe.
  • Shecorns88Shecorns88 Posts: 279

    DavidL said:

    One thing we don't have enough of in our politics is people who really know their brief inside out. And in choosing Siddiq to be our anti corruption Minister Starmer has gone for a member of a family who know everything there is to know about corruption. The family is facing corruption allegations of £3.4bn in Bangladesh. I mean that is professional, no wonder he has expressed confidence in her expertise.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp3zqen209go

    An allegation made by a political rival of one of her relatives.

    Never registered on radar until repeated by colleague of Musk on X
    The BBC have the story

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cp3zqen209go
    Yes they got it off X...

    It's been in the public domain in Bangladesh for weeks.

    Chris Mason the BBC Chief Politicial Correspondent for Elon Musk and Farage Media was then ordered to push it over here.

  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,358

    DavidL said:

    One thing we don't have enough of in our politics is people who really know their brief inside out. And in choosing Siddiq to be our anti corruption Minister Starmer has gone for a member of a family who know everything there is to know about corruption. The family is facing corruption allegations of £3.4bn in Bangladesh. I mean that is professional, no wonder he has expressed confidence in her expertise.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp3zqen209go

    An allegation made by a political rival of one of her relatives.

    Never registered on radar until repeated by colleague of Musk on X
    It's pretty uncontroversial in Bangladeshi politics - everyone knows the AL govt (and the BNP one before it) were corrupt.
  • DavidL said:

    One thing we don't have enough of in our politics is people who really know their brief inside out. And in choosing Siddiq to be our anti corruption Minister Starmer has gone for a member of a family who know everything there is to know about corruption. The family is facing corruption allegations of £3.4bn in Bangladesh. I mean that is professional, no wonder he has expressed confidence in her expertise.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp3zqen209go

    An allegation made by a political rival of one of her relatives.

    Never registered on radar until repeated by colleague of Musk on X
    The BBC have the story

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cp3zqen209go
    Yes they got it off X...

    It's been in the public domain in Bangladesh for weeks.

    Chris Mason the BBC Chief Politicial Correspondent for Elon Musk and Farage Media was then ordered to push it over here.

    What a ridiculous comment wholly out of order, and no doubt of concern to the site's moderators
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,608
    Leon said:

    On another note - I did a post on a subreddit the other day, and it was read by..... two million people

    This is not so aberrant, either. I've had quite a few posts hit the 100,000s, even high 100,000s

    This is not to blow my own trumpet, or even to get my own horn section into the recording studio, it's a measure of how powerful Reddit has become. We ignore it as we discuss, X, Facebook. Insta, and all the weirdo Woke creepy sandal-wearing pervs on Bluesky, and yet Reddit has quietly become intensely influential

    Yes: Reddit has become the place for discussion and Q&A, completely eliminating most old school forums.

    XDA forums was -for decades- the place to discuss hacking Android phones. It's now been entirely supplanted by Reddit. Traffic is probably down 90%.

    PB is one of the few sites to have avoided being destroyed by Reddit. Largely because we have the single stream of consciousness flow, and no threaded comments.

    With that said, I am slightly sceptical of some of the Reddit counts: I've broken 10,000 views on some of my Brompton comments. And I'm not convinced that the Brompton community is *that* big.
  • slade said:

    My year has been interesting. In January I was diagnosed with cancer and in February my younger brother died and I was diagnosed with lateral stenosis of the spine. However in March I was told the basal cell carcinoma was operable and it was removed in April. In November, after chiropractic work, my sciatica was relieved. Now looking forward to the new year.

    That is tough and commiserations at the lose of your brother

    Good luck and best wishes for 2025
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,608
    edited December 21

    Interesting point of view from history professor Heather Cox Richardson on the dividing line in America between MAGA voters and the rest. It isn't 'left behind' social and economic issues, it's simply which media they consume.

    The information space/silo people live in. In one they are fed "lies in order to make bank".

    "the difference is whether or not they consume Fox News and listen to talk radio. That's it. That's the dividing line. Everyone is like 'whoa, they're left behind' and all that. No they are not."


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMQSs45oXow (≈ 21mins)

    Are you sure that's the correct direction of causality: is it not entirely possible that they consume that media because that is what reinforces their existing beliefs?
  • rkrkrk said:

    DavidL said:

    One thing we don't have enough of in our politics is people who really know their brief inside out. And in choosing Siddiq to be our anti corruption Minister Starmer has gone for a member of a family who know everything there is to know about corruption. The family is facing corruption allegations of £3.4bn in Bangladesh. I mean that is professional, no wonder he has expressed confidence in her expertise.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp3zqen209go

    An allegation made by a political rival of one of her relatives.

    Never registered on radar until repeated by colleague of Musk on X
    It's pretty uncontroversial in Bangladeshi politics - everyone knows the AL govt (and the BNP one before it) were corrupt.
    I didn't know Nick Griffin's lot were that popular in Bangladesh!
  • Interesting point of view from history professor Heather Cox Richardson on the dividing line in America between MAGA voters and the rest. It isn't 'left behind' social and economic issues, it's simply which media they consume.

    The information space/silo people live in. In one they are fed "lies in order to make bank".

    "the difference is whether or not they consume Fox News and listen to talk radio. That's it. That's the dividing line. Everyone is like 'whoa, they're left behind' and all that. No they are not."


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMQSs45oXow (≈ 21mins)

    Is not the causality likely to be the other way round, to an extent? People with MAGA views will find CNN and the New York Times intolerable and vice versa.
    Self-reinforcing doom loop.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,515

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    This horror in Germany.

    Just imagine the kind of reaction on social media if that had happened in the U.K. I fear the usual suspects would be gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tension and cleiming conspiracies if challenged.

    I hope Germany is spared that.

    We’ve already got the usual suspects here gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tensions and claiming conspiracies if challenged. I’m absolutely sure there are German equivalents doing the same on German social media, sadly.
    Yes, the convolutions have been remarkable. Last night the usual suspects assumed that the unhinged Saudi doctor carried out the atrocity in the name of jihad. But the narrative had to change slightly when it became reasonably clear that this was unlikely to be the case, and his apparent influences included AfD etc. Not to be defeated, it turns out that it was a double bluff, as he was obviously hiding his jidahism in other guises. Stunning.
    Like everybody else, I've no idea what his motives were at the moment.
    If you’ve got no idea what his motives are, how come you nonetheless KNOW he’s not anyway influenced by jihadism?
    Rather than jumping to conclusions here and on twitter and where ever else, which can and does stimulate reactions, some of which can be quite serious eg riot, arson, murder, etc why not just wait for the facts to become clear and then one can be justifiably outraged at whatever is the cause, whether that be jihadi, fascist or whatever tenancies.
    At the end of the day it was a failure of the state to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence. Attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game.
    You don't know that. You are also jumping to conclusions. He could be a jihadist, he could be a right wing zealot or as in many cases in the past it could simply be someone will mental problems. However rushing to conclusions of either the first two often starts riots, arson and even murder.
    Yes I do know that, and so do you. You seem to be in denial.
    In the very unlikely event I am ever tried for something I hope to god you are not on the jury. I like to rely on facts and not internet trolls.
    My comment was that the state had failed to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence and that attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game. It's a fact that an act of inter-ethnic violence occured and it's a fact that the state failed to prevent it.
    Again you can't know that. It might well be so. It only happened yesterday and you are just reading posts from people you have no idea you can rely on. The guy clearly has a conflicting background and actions. How do you know he isn't schizophrenic or suffering from some other mental issues?

    You just don't know, yet we tolerate people stirring up potential racist violence who don't have the facts. Why can't people wait for the facts.
    The only way in which it could not be true is if they've apprehended the wrong man, which seems highly unlikely. For whatever reason, this person developed a murderous rage against Germans - whether this was islamism, anti-islamism or mental issues doesn't change this fact. It also doesn't change the fact that the authorities were aware of it and failed to act.
    In particular Twitter did nothing about his postings, which were in plain sight, and indeed still are.

    Take this one from August this year, which seems very much not Islamist:

    https://x.com/DrTalebJawad/status/1821207118617203097

    Indeed so far as I can understand his train of thought it is not that he wants to Islamise Germany, but that Germany is deporting Saudi asylum seekers, particularly women, back to Saudi to be imprisoned or killed.
    It’s impossible to follow his train of thought. He’s made some comments in Arabic which directly contradict stuff he’s said in English. I think he might simply be a criminal nutter who PROBABLY faked apostasy to avoid extradition, and he has developed a bizarre, murderous grudge against Germany and Germans


    If he was that anti-Islam or Saudi surely he would have attacked a mosque or an embassy

    Instead he attacked a Christmas market?! He also did it on the anniversary - I think - of a known jihadi attack against a German Xmas market
    Remember kids:

    If a white Christian kills a bunch of people, it's because he's mentally ill.

    If a brown Muslim does it, it's because he's motivated by Islam.
    I am not sure why you find that dichotomy so strange. Christianity is a faith based around the central tenets of forgiveness and loving thine enemies. Killing is strictly prohibited in the faith. Christians have been warlike peoples but they are not commanded in the Bible to spread their faith at the point of the sword, and it has been many hundreds of years since there were wars to spread Christianity. There is no sect of Christianity that advocates the violent spreading of the faith. None of that is true of Islam.
    The absolute state of this comment
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,608

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    This horror in Germany.

    Just imagine the kind of reaction on social media if that had happened in the U.K. I fear the usual suspects would be gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tension and cleiming conspiracies if challenged.

    I hope Germany is spared that.

    We’ve already got the usual suspects here gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tensions and claiming conspiracies if challenged. I’m absolutely sure there are German equivalents doing the same on German social media, sadly.
    Yes, the convolutions have been remarkable. Last night the usual suspects assumed that the unhinged Saudi doctor carried out the atrocity in the name of jihad. But the narrative had to change slightly when it became reasonably clear that this was unlikely to be the case, and his apparent influences included AfD etc. Not to be defeated, it turns out that it was a double bluff, as he was obviously hiding his jidahism in other guises. Stunning.
    Like everybody else, I've no idea what his motives were at the moment.
    If you’ve got no idea what his motives are, how come you nonetheless KNOW he’s not anyway influenced by jihadism?
    Rather than jumping to conclusions here and on twitter and where ever else, which can and does stimulate reactions, some of which can be quite serious eg riot, arson, murder, etc why not just wait for the facts to become clear and then one can be justifiably outraged at whatever is the cause, whether that be jihadi, fascist or whatever tenancies.
    At the end of the day it was a failure of the state to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence. Attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game.
    You don't know that. You are also jumping to conclusions. He could be a jihadist, he could be a right wing zealot or as in many cases in the past it could simply be someone will mental problems. However rushing to conclusions of either the first two often starts riots, arson and even murder.
    Yes I do know that, and so do you. You seem to be in denial.
    In the very unlikely event I am ever tried for something I hope to god you are not on the jury. I like to rely on facts and not internet trolls.
    My comment was that the state had failed to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence and that attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game. It's a fact that an act of inter-ethnic violence occured and it's a fact that the state failed to prevent it.
    Again you can't know that. It might well be so. It only happened yesterday and you are just reading posts from people you have no idea you can rely on. The guy clearly has a conflicting background and actions. How do you know he isn't schizophrenic or suffering from some other mental issues?

    You just don't know, yet we tolerate people stirring up potential racist violence who don't have the facts. Why can't people wait for the facts.
    The only way in which it could not be true is if they've apprehended the wrong man, which seems highly unlikely. For whatever reason, this person developed a murderous rage against Germans - whether this was islamism, anti-islamism or mental issues doesn't change this fact. It also doesn't change the fact that the authorities were aware of it and failed to act.
    In particular Twitter did nothing about his postings, which were in plain sight, and indeed still are.

    Take this one from August this year, which seems very much not Islamist:

    https://x.com/DrTalebJawad/status/1821207118617203097

    Indeed so far as I can understand his train of thought it is not that he wants to Islamise Germany, but that Germany is deporting Saudi asylum seekers, particularly women, back to Saudi to be imprisoned or killed.
    It’s impossible to follow his train of thought. He’s made some comments in Arabic which directly contradict stuff he’s said in English. I think he might simply be a criminal nutter who PROBABLY faked apostasy to avoid extradition, and he has developed a bizarre, murderous grudge against Germany and Germans


    If he was that anti-Islam or Saudi surely he would have attacked a mosque or an embassy

    Instead he attacked a Christmas market?! He also did it on the anniversary - I think - of a known jihadi attack against a German Xmas market
    Remember kids:

    If a white Christian kills a bunch of people, it's because he's mentally ill.

    If a brown Muslim does it, it's because he's motivated by Islam.
    I am not sure why you find that dichotomy so strange. Christianity is a faith based around the central tenets of forgiveness and loving thine enemies. Killing is strictly prohibited in the faith. Christians have been warlike peoples but they are not commanded in the Bible to spread their faith at the point of the sword, and it has been many hundreds of years since there were wars to spread Christianity. There is no sect of Christianity that advocates the violent spreading of the faith. None of that is true of Islam.
    The absolute state of this comment
    What's frightening is the combination of staggering ignorance (errr, the Crusades? errr, the Conquistadors in Latin America) and utter certainty.
  • pm215pm215 Posts: 1,153
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    On another note - I did a post on a subreddit the other day, and it was read by..... two million people

    This is not so aberrant, either. I've had quite a few posts hit the 100,000s, even high 100,000s

    This is not to blow my own trumpet, or even to get my own horn section into the recording studio, it's a measure of how powerful Reddit has become. We ignore it as we discuss, X, Facebook. Insta, and all the weirdo Woke creepy sandal-wearing pervs on Bluesky, and yet Reddit has quietly become intensely influential

    Yes: Reddit has become the place for discussion and Q&A, completely eliminating most old school forums.

    XDA forums was -for decades- the place to discuss hacking Android phones. It's now been entirely supplanted by Reddit. Traffic is probably down 90%.

    PB is one of the few sites to have avoided being destroyed by Reddit. Largely because we have the single stream of consciousness flow, and no threaded comments.

    With that said, I am slightly sceptical of some of the Reddit counts: I've broken 10,000 views on some of my Brompton comments. And I'm not convinced that the Brompton community is *that* big.
    Some other non reddit forums I'm on that have survived have done so either because they're almost a closed community, where the central posters know each other well enough that they're there to talk to each other rather than for a particular discussion subject; and others where the forum is attached to and run as a user discussion and help forum for specific SaaS websites, so it's the place you go if you want to ask questions of the people developing the software and has a built in source of posters in the users of the software.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,172
    edited December 21

    Elon Musk is still promoting the AfD:

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1870488903452676105

    The traditional political parties in Germany have utterly failed the people.

    🇩🇪 AfD is the only hope for Germany 🇩🇪

    Do we really need hourly updates on that ?
Sign In or Register to comment.