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This poll is barking – politicalbetting.com

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  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,047
    Pagan2 said:

    So explain to someone innocent they wont get treatment because it cost's 21k a year so they will have to either go private or die but we will spend 50k a year to keep a child killer alive then probably spend a load more if they are released because not like they are getting a job plus they will no doubt need security cover
    There's no reason why we can't introduce a greater element of work in our prisons to ensure prisoners pay for their upkeep. And it probably results in those released having greater skills and employability than would otherwise be the case.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,613
    Pagan2 said:

    Eastenders is the best argument
    Eastenders is one long argument.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,493
    This question needs to be asked of in relation to the attack in Germany:
    rcs1000 said:

    What's an acceptable number of dead innocents per year?

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,047

    The licence fee demand letters are one of the best arguments in favour of abolishing the licence fee. They're vile.
    They have the equivalent of the license fee in Japan, and it resulted in an anti-NHK party standing and winning seats in the Japanese Senate.

    Then the party went mad and started ranting about Jews controlling everyhing.

  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,656
    rcs1000 said:

    There's no reason why we can't introduce a greater element of work in our prisons to ensure prisoners pay for their upkeep. And it probably results in those released having greater skills and employability than would otherwise be the case.
    We could make a lot more by auctioning off execution rights and televisual rights and take some money of the billionaires
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,858
    Carnyx said:

    It's not. It's the contractors. As I said earlier, they remind me of car park operators.

    Edit: but very much up to the BBC to choose their contractors ...
    The BBC have moral responsibility for the actions of their contractors.

    The idea that contracting something out, contracts the moral risk out, is the mentality of a gangster.

    “I just told Joey to go see Micky and give him a message….”
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,924
    I don't think my Greyhound is Prime Ministerial material.

    Mind you that also goes for all the PMs since 1975
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 9,615
    Foxy said:

    I think he got the place in California by marrying well rather than politics.
    Everyone is entitled to some time off.

    Socal is gorgeous though.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,313
    The NDP will now vote for a no confidence motion in Trudeau's government.

    Key ally propping up Canada's Trudeau says he will vote to topple him

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c4glpxpke91o
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,656
    I am aware I am coming of as extreme tonight, I am however upset right now once again have a friend being told there treatment doesn't meet criteria for their illness yet we spend more keeping people like hindley and brady alive
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,927
    We need better gravity wave detectors.

    Could we tell whether anyone in our galaxy uses a warp drive?

    This sounds like a crazy question, but it can be answered using numerical GR …

    https://x.com/martinmbauer/status/1869763981059228072
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,297

    At the same time they got rid of 42 Conservative peers this is a massive stacking of parliament on party political grounds.

    And narry a whisper from the hypocrite who accused the Tories of electoral malfeasance for asking for voter ID or redistricting
    Starmer is loathsome from basically every angle. Not only grossly incompetent, terrible at politics, a greedy lying grifter, and a charmless egotist, he is also a reeking hypocrite
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 9,615
    Carnyx said:


    They didn't get rid of Conservative peers. They got rid of hereditaries. Not the same thing.

    The Tories are still the largest party in the Lords as I understand it.
    42 of the life peers were elected by conservatives vs 2 elected by labour peers.

    Grant that that is wrong (I was in favour a proper reform of the lords to get rid of the hereditaries) but this is a massive change in the composition of the house by executive fiat
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,924

    I don't think my Greyhound is Prime Ministerial material.

    Mind you that also goes for all the PMs since 1975

    Speaking of hounds. Not sure if it's true Harvey Proctor owned a Whippet
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,297
    Sweet Jesus

    "Reports of at least 11 Killed and over 60 Injured, after a Car drove Full-Speed into a Christmas Market in the Eastern German City of Magdeburg, with Police investigating the Incident as a Terrorist Attack"

    https://x.com/sentdefender/status/1870186579282841869

    Far Right parties are going to be elected across Europe. Le Pen in France, possibly a CDU/AfD Coalition in Germany. And so on
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,375
    kle4 said:

    1. Attendance requirements - it's not full time, but it's more than an occasional hobby
    2. No ex-MPs/political staffers/donors right away - it's not a retirement home, reward for being a loser, or to be a prize to be bought
    3. Greater time for scrutiny
    Simple and straightforward.


    What’s wrong with ex-MPs? They are surely among the most qualified for the role.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,297
    Pagan2 said:

    I am aware I am coming of as extreme tonight, I am however upset right now once again have a friend being told there treatment doesn't meet criteria for their illness yet we spend more keeping people like hindley and brady alive

    There are many extreme thoughts, tonight
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,656

    What’s wrong with ex-MPs? They are surely among the most qualified for the role.
    If they are ex mp's voters have judged them unfit to govern so you put them back in a government role in the lords....thats what is wrong
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,297
    Oh my god there's a video

    Fucking hell

    Will not even link
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,375
    BBC report:

    “A car has crashed into a crowd at a Christmas market in east Germany, local media report.

    “A least one person has been killed and several injured in the incident in Magdeburg, according to German public broadcaster MDR.”
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,959

    It's not democracy in that case, because such a scheme would not be possible if you had the freedom to protest, freedom of the Press, an independent judiciary, etc.

    Democratic elections are a consequence of more fundamental elements of democracy - law and dissent. You can trivially have meaningless elections if there is not the rule of law or freedom to dissent, but in that case you don't have democracy.

    Edit: I've been disappointed that the rhetoric on Syria from some in the West doesn't recognise this, and there is too much emphasis on elections, and not enough on the rule of law and freedom of speech.
    You're redefining "democracy" to win your case. Although I agree with you that freedom of the press (now freedom of speech), freedom to create a party that represents your position and to recruit others to that cause, freedom to advocate positions currently illegal, etc are highly desirable, they are not necessary for democracy, and this deficit is democracy's Achilles heel.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,297

    BBC report:

    “A car has crashed into a crowd at a Christmas market in east Germany, local media report.

    “A least one person has been killed and several injured in the incident in Magdeburg, according to German public broadcaster MDR.”

    Watch the video. At your moral peril

    If only one person has died it is a genuine Christmas miracle; I fear that has not happened
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,850
    edited December 2024
    Leon said:

    Fucking maddening. I reckon HMRC's pitiful chaos - along with that of Germany's - is costing me thousands. Maybe tens of thousands if for some reason I keel over in the interim

    WTF am I meant to do? My government no longer serves its purpose, it cannot run an efficient state. And yet when I vote for the other lot, they are just as bad, indeed significantly worse

    For this reason alone I will vote Reform, to terrify the shit out of ALL the Establishment. I want them frightened for their jobs and I want half of them sacked
    still waiting for a refund from HMRC from April - all it says is "pending" -apparently referred to a special department despite them accepting evidence of the pension contributions that caused the refund. Can you get to talk to that department? -nah of course not - the only conversation you will have (after about 30 minutes of infuriating nannying messages about finding out online any query ) is with yourself saying "Fing hell" when it then cuts you off.

    Jim Harra (the CEO of HMRC) should have been sacked years ago due to this abysmal customer service
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,375
    Pagan2 said:

    If they are ex mp's voters have judged them unfit to govern so you put them back in a government role in the lords....thats what is wrong
    An ex-MP hasn’t necessarily lost an election. They may have chosen not to stand again.

    I think we should have an elected upper house. But if we’re going to have appointments, then why not appoint experienced legislators?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,207
    edited December 2024
    I'll make this my photo quota for today. I've been threatening PB wiyh a Vorrangsplein junction, and this is the first in the UK, in Sheffield.

    It's a way of simplifying a junction between a minor, and major, road, such that decisions are made in sequence rather than all at once, by drivers especially. For motor traffic, a driver from the minor road addresses pedestrians and cycles, then traffic one way, then the other way, rather than all at once. A driver on the major route slows down a little. And cycles and pedestrians have their own more easily readable routes to follow.


    Video and Chatter on Bluesky:
    https://bsky.app/profile/harryhamishgray.bsky.social/post/3ldbmgz5uvc2s

    I wasn't familiar with these until yesterday, so am still reflecting. Here's a detailed blog post:
    https://therantyhighwayman.blogspot.com/2021/02/voorrangsplein-part-1.html
    https://therantyhighwayman.blogspot.com/2021/03/voorrangsplein-part-2.html
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,297
    edited December 2024

    still waiting for a refund from HMRC from April - all it says is "pending" -apparently referred to a special department despite them accepting evidence of the pension contributions that caused the refund. Can you get to talk to that department -nah of course not - the only conversation you will have (after about 30 minutes of infuriating nannying messages about finding out online any query ) is with yourself saying "Fing hell" when it then cuts you off
    They're all at home. When I call them I can literally hear their fucking pets and kids kicking off, and then they say "Oh I can't find the file, let me get back to you in a few days"

    Well maybe you can't find it because you are sitting on your obese butt in your fucking house in Newent, you pathetic lazy bint

    I have honestly had HMRC twats say to me, "We understand we have failed you, we are now expediting your case"

    EXPEDITING

    And then - nothing. She goes and has another biscuit. If I ran my life like this I'd be out of work in weeks

    It is utterly pathetic. Get them back in the office and halve their pay with the threat of instant dismissal and replacement by a keen, eager, articulate robot
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,311
    8

    The licence fee demand letters are one of the best arguments in favour of abolishing the licence fee. They're vile.
    I have a long history of not having a television, so a long history of getting these threatening letters. Recently I heard of a new one I haven't seen personally. Apparently they start legal proceedings and if you don't reply to their letter (eg you've just recycled it unopened) you can be found guilty in absentia. So you have to pay the fine even if you genuinely don't need a license.

    Good evening, everybody.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,502
    Leon said:

    Watch the video. At your moral peril

    If only one person has died it is a genuine Christmas miracle; I fear that has not happened
    It's awful. Surely the Germans have road blocks like we have at Arsenal:

    https://l450v.alamy.com/450v/2c70p5w/harrogate-uk-23-september-2019-temporary-hostile-vehicle-management-anti-ram-safety-barrier-2c70p5w.jpg

    Obviously, these things shouldn't be needed, but come on, they're not difficult to set up in the required spots.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,406
    Pagan2 said:

    If they are ex mp's voters have judged them unfit to govern so you put them back in a government role in the lords....thats what is wrong
    I was thinking about that when I saw Thangam Debbonaire’s (sp?) name on the list. I’d rather see her back in the Commons, but she seems to be a sensible woman and an asset to Parliament.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,135
    viewcode said:

    You're redefining "democracy" to win your case. Although I agree with you that freedom of the press (now freedom of speech), freedom to create a party that represents your position and to recruit others to that cause, freedom to advocate positions currently illegal, etc are highly desirable, they are not necessary for democracy, and this deficit is democracy's Achilles heel.
    On one level all definitions are arbitrary, but the definition I'm using has long-standing. It's why Britain is generally considered to be a democracy in the 19th century, despite being well short of universal suffrage, and it also didn't have full freedom of assembly for much of that period either.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,307
    edited December 2024

    What’s wrong with ex-MPs? They are surely among the most qualified for the role.
    My problem with ex-MPs is how they are appointed, as compensation when they lose, or to convince some old duffer to stand aside in their seat to get in some new blood. Being appointed right after not being an MP also means they are still immersed in the day to day political psychodrama of the Commons, and therefore not in the right frame of mind for the more scrutiny minded focus of the Lords. You will get some decent ones, but you will also get a bunch of the most useless political lapdogs that exist.

    That's why I favour a delay before they can go to the Lords of 2 parliaments/10 years - so that they have demonstrated a) additional achievements/skills beyond merely being an MP, and b) gain a level of seperation and perspective on politics because they have been away from it for a little while.
  • The abolishing elections (temporarily) to save democracy was the corker…
    In 1939 all Parties in the UK united to fight Hitler. Hitler and the right wing British Press wanted to install Moseley and the ex King to give Hitler power

    Now we have another Trojan Horse like Moseley in Farage Trump is not Hitler he is a mere puppet. The Fuhrer of 21st century fascism is Musk.

    Musk poses far greater threat to the world than Hitler.

    Idiots saying they will vote Reform because they can't be arsed to fill in a Tax Return on time, having had 9 months warning, may think they are funny, but make no mistake Reform as a Musk puppet would destroy Britain.

    Imagine London like Damascus or Beirut in 2030...its real and Reform are a cancer within
    ..
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,656
    AnneJGP said:

    8

    I have a long history of not having a television, so a long history of getting these threatening letters. Recently I heard of a new one I haven't seen personally. Apparently they start legal proceedings and if you don't reply to their letter (eg you've just recycled it unopened) you can be found guilty in absentia. So you have to pay the fine even if you genuinely don't need a license.

    Good evening, everybody.
    If you can be tried and convicted without being ever told you are told you are on trial then this is not a country of law and justice
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,307
    edited December 2024

    An ex-MP hasn’t necessarily lost an election. They may have chosen not to stand again.

    I think we should have an elected upper house. But if we’re going to have appointments, then why not appoint experienced legislators?
    As per my other reply the issue for me is the cronyism means you get a mix of decent ex-MPs, and a bunch of timeserving nonentities, but more its because I think the Lords serves a slightly different role than the Commons, and ex-MPs should show additional reason they deserve to be reappointed to the legislature (for life), and a separation of time enables that and allows for them to take a step back from being immersed in toe dogfights of national top level politics, and so approach the new role in a better frame of mind.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,656
    kle4 said:

    My problem with ex-MPs is how they are appointed, as compensation when they lose, or to convince some old duffer to stand aside in their seat to get in some new blood. Being appointed right after not being an MP also means they are still immersed in the day to day political psychodrama of the Commons, and therefore not in the right frame of mind for the more scrutiny minded focus of the Lords. You will get some decent ones, but you will also get a bunch of the most useless political lapdogs that exist.

    That's why I favour a delay before they can go to the Lords of 2 parliaments/10 years - so that they have demonstrated a) additional achievements/skills beyond merely being an MP, and b) gain a level of seperation and perspective on politics because they have been away from it for a little while.
    Also given the last few decades arguing ex mp's are most qualified to govern is somewhat risible they are the ones that landed us in this mess
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,297
    tlg86 said:

    It's awful. Surely the Germans have road blocks like we have at Arsenal:

    https://l450v.alamy.com/450v/2c70p5w/harrogate-uk-23-september-2019-temporary-hostile-vehicle-management-anti-ram-safety-barrier-2c70p5w.jpg

    Obviously, these things shouldn't be needed, but come on, they're not difficult to set up in the required spots.
    Apparently they did have them and it wasn't enough. Who knows. Maybe - maybe - we will find out

    Why should we have to live in fear at our own Christmas markets, in Christian countries? With militarised police and massive barriers? Which arguably don't work?

    We should not. We need change
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,116
    Leon said:

    Apparently they did have them and it wasn't enough. Who knows. Maybe - maybe - we will find out

    Why should we have to live in fear at our own Christmas markets, in Christian countries? With militarised police and massive barriers? Which arguably don't work?

    We should not. We need change
    What sort of 'change' are you suggesting?
  • AnneJGP said:

    8

    I have a long history of not having a television, so a long history of getting these threatening letters. Recently I heard of a new one I haven't seen personally. Apparently they start legal proceedings and if you don't reply to their letter (eg you've just recycled it unopened) you can be found guilty in absentia. So you have to pay the fine even if you genuinely don't need a license.

    Good evening, everybody.
    Thanks Anne, that's very helpful and informative. Our next door neighbour has been getting these letters for years. He's blind.

    I'll be watching out for the arrival of any such threats now.

    They really are quite vile letters.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,493
    The hysterical response from many to Musk's AfD tweet couldn't have had worse timing.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,135
    AnneJGP said:

    8

    I have a long history of not having a television, so a long history of getting these threatening letters. Recently I heard of a new one I haven't seen personally. Apparently they start legal proceedings and if you don't reply to their letter (eg you've just recycled it unopened) you can be found guilty in absentia. So you have to pay the fine even if you genuinely don't need a license.

    Good evening, everybody.
    A lot of cases are decided in the absence of the householder.

    According to Wikipedia the BBC are heavily involved in the language used in the TV licensing letters.

    According to the BBC: "Customer service is the brand experience we create for customers who are currently licensed, unknowingly unlicensed or who don't need a licence", whereas "Collections is the brand experience we create for those customers whose television licence has expired and whom TV Licensing wants to motivate to renew." Finally, the enforcement tone is used for households who have been unlicensed for a longer period.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_licensing_in_the_United_Kingdom

    I believe a previous poster was severely mistaken to put the blame on the contractors. Also worth noting that Wikipedia states that the BBC have a statutory duty to ensure that all households requiring a TV licence have one, so ultimately the responsibility is Parliament's.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,375
    kle4 said:

    My problem with ex-MPs is how they are appointed, as compensation when they lose, or to convince some old duffer to stand aside in their seat to get in some new blood. Being appointed right after not being an MP also means they are still immersed in the day to day political psychodrama of the Commons, and therefore not in the right frame of mind for the more scrutiny minded focus of the Lords. You will get some decent ones, but you will also get a bunch of the most useless political lapdogs that exist.

    That's why I favour a delay before they can go to the Lords of 2 parliaments/10 years - so that they have demonstrated a) additional achievements/skills beyond merely being an MP, and b) gain a level of seperation and perspective on politics because they have been away from it for a little while.
    Seems pointlessly complicated. No-one else getting elevated to the Lords is judged on their additional achievements, level of separation or perspective.

    The obvious approach is to do what nearly every other democracy does and have elections. If you’re going to appoint, then tinkering around with rules like this is make-work.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617
    edited December 2024
    Pagan2 said:

    If you can be tried and convicted without being ever told you are told you are on trial then this is not a country of law and justice
    That's normal with civil court cases, isn't it? You're called to court, you don't defend yourself ... you lose. But that isn't 'conviction'.

    It's only criminal if you don't pay up the ensuing charge/penalty [edit], I believe. Then you do get convicted.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,656
    Carnyx said:

    That's normal with civil court cases, isn't it? You're called to court, you don't defend yourself ... you lose. But that isn't 'conviction'.

    It's only criminal if you don't pay up, I believe. Then you do get convicted.
    Which is fine if you know and don't turn up. The implication was they weren't told of a court summons
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,522
    Leon said:

    They're all at home. When I call them I can literally hear their fucking pets and kids kicking off, and then they say "Oh I can't find the file, let me get back to you in a few days"

    Well maybe you can't find it because you are sitting on your obese butt in your fucking house in Newent, you pathetic lazy bint

    I have honestly had HMRC twats say to me, "We understand we have failed you, we are now expediting your case"

    EXPEDITING

    And then - nothing. She goes and has another biscuit. If I ran my life like this I'd be out of work in weeks

    It is utterly pathetic. Get them back in the office and halve their pay with the threat of instant dismissal and replacement by a keen, eager, articulate robot
    I've always found them quite good. Maybe I'm just lucky.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,116

    The hysterical response from many to Musk's AfD tweet couldn't have had worse timing.

    'Hysterical' ?

    Not really. Perhaps we should actually wait and see what's happened, and by who.

    Playing political games with this sort of event is really shitty.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,307
    edited December 2024

    Seems pointlessly complicated. No-one else getting elevated to the Lords is judged on their additional achievements, level of separation or perspective.

    The obvious approach is to do what nearly every other democracy does and have elections. If you’re going to appoint, then tinkering around with rules like this is make-work.
    Which is a fair argument to make, and one reason many support an elected chamber.

    But I disagree tinkering with such rules is make work, I would argue it is improving what is there, and that is worth doing even if you prefer to go fully elected. Other people are getting judged on their additional achievements, separation, and perspective, by the very fact that they are not politicians that is the sole things they are getting judged on - excellence in their fields, good works, etc. They are being judged, ostensibly, on what they have to offer the legislature.

    What do ex-MPs offer the legislature that anyone else does not offer better? We have the Commons to offer the openly political perspective. Most MPs are no good at scrutinising or drafting legislation, as it is not something working in the Commons incentivizes, and those who get appointed to the Lords are more likely to be loyal footsoldiers than potentially troublemaking legislation drafters.

    I think it would remove a corrupting element of our politics wherein PMs can buy out some of their MPs or reward cronies by giving them a title and job for life.

    We can improve the Lords without going fully elected or abolishing, if that is a step too far for many people.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617
    Pagan2 said:

    Which is fine if you know and don't turn up. The implication was they weren't told of a court summons
    Not the implication of AnneJGP's post: just that if it comes and you ignore it ... The court summons will be valid if properly registered by the postman etc.

    It's an extremely annoying system. I had lots of letters to deal with as the executor of an elderly relative whose house clearance and sale got held up. Even when I'd told them the house was empty I kept getting the letters. I had to write another formal statement.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,297
    kinabalu said:

    I've always found them quite good. Maybe I'm just lucky.
    This is a fairly recent evolution - during and post pandemic. HMRC were reasonably efficient before. But ever since, Jeez

    It was forgivable, perhaps, in 2022, in 2024? No. FFS. It is clearly a drag on the economy

    I wonder when you last filed a significent self assessment return, my guess is a while, and maybe never a return with an element of foreign income, which seems to be a particular deficiency
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,297
    For balance, I should say this CAN be fixed

    The UKPO - the passport office - was fricking terrible for a while. Now they are super efficient. I've heard this from multiple sources, and experienced it myself. Personal phone calls the next day, and results within a week

    Whatever happened at the UKPO, apply it to the HMRC
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,836
    AnneJGP said:

    8

    I have a long history of not having a television, so a long history of getting these threatening letters. Recently I heard of a new one I haven't seen personally. Apparently they start legal proceedings and if you don't reply to their letter (eg you've just recycled it unopened) you can be found guilty in absentia. So you have to pay the fine even if you genuinely don't need a license.

    Good evening, everybody.
    I also have no time at all for the harrassing TV licence protection racket, it is a total scandal, as is the confused law about who needs a TV licence, but there is a misjudgment here.

    A civil society depends upon being able to deem that receiving a letter according to a statutory and lawful procedure means you are on notice of its contents. Eg a Notice of Intended Prosecution for motoring offences. It's not enough to argue that you throw letters away unopened and therefore you don't know what is going on.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,493

    'Hysterical' ?

    Not really. Perhaps we should actually wait and see what's happened, and by who.

    Playing political games with this sort of event is really shitty.
    Yes it was fairly hysterical. 'Serious' people were saying it was illegal for him to state his opinion and that he should be sanctioned by the EU.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,656
    algarkirk said:

    I also have no time at all for the harrassing TV licence protection racket, it is a total scandal, as is the confused law about who needs a TV licence, but there is a misjudgment here.

    A civil society depends upon being able to deem that receiving a letter according to a statutory and lawful procedure means you are on notice of its contents. Eg a Notice of Intended Prosecution for motoring offences. It's not enough to argue that you throw letters away unopened and therefore you don't know what is going on.
    I would argue given the amount of post that I am told I have been sent and never received that something like a notice of court proceedings needs more than just a "Well we sent it"...should require a signature of receipt too
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,311
    Pagan2 said:

    Which is fine if you know and don't turn up. The implication was they weren't told of a court summons


    That's the point. They tell you in what you believe is junk mail, so you chuck it away unopened.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,297
    algarkirk said:

    I also have no time at all for the harrassing TV licence protection racket, it is a total scandal, as is the confused law about who needs a TV licence, but there is a misjudgment here.

    A civil society depends upon being able to deem that receiving a letter according to a statutory and lawful procedure means you are on notice of its contents. Eg a Notice of Intended Prosecution for motoring offences. It's not enough to argue that you throw letters away unopened and therefore you don't know what is going on.
    Have you not noticed how shit the Royal Mail is now? I reckon 10% of my promised letter and parcels, if sent by Royal Mail, do not make it
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,116

    Yes it was fairly hysterical. 'Serious' people were saying it was illegal for him to state his opinion and that he should be sanctioned by the EU.
    Why don't you think Musk is a danger to democracy, in the USA and abroad?
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 9,978
    Leon said:

    Watch the video. At your moral peril

    If only one person has died it is a genuine Christmas miracle; I fear that has not happened
    A cursory glance at "the video" shows it has already been sped up to make it look more dramatic.

    Given there have been previous similar incidents across Europe, I wouldn't be so sure this is footage from this particular event.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,836
    Pagan2 said:

    I would argue given the amount of post that I am told I have been sent and never received that something like a notice of court proceedings needs more than just a "Well we sent it"...should require a signature of receipt too
    Agree in part. Though of course this turns the system into one where the evasive have the upper hand. Proof of delivery should be sufficient.
  • Leon said:

    For balance, I should say this CAN be fixed

    The UKPO - the passport office - was fricking terrible for a while. Now they are super efficient. I've heard this from multiple sources, and experienced it myself. Personal phone calls the next day, and results within a week

    Whatever happened at the UKPO, apply it to the HMRC

    Yep, earlier this year it was just 8 days from taking my picture at the printing shop to receiving my new passport in the post.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,297
    Eabhal said:

    A cursory glance at "the video" shows it has already been sped up to make it look more dramatic.

    Given there have been previous similar incidents across Europe, I wouldn't be so sure this is footage from this particular event.
    What are you talking about? Are you claming this event is "faked"??
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,656
    algarkirk said:

    Agree in part. Though of course this turns the system into one where the evasive have the upper hand. Proof of delivery should be sufficient.
    99.99 percent of mail I get is junk mail...pod isnt enough you need signature for receipt...the evasive easy...put the letter in an amazon box
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,613
    How is not having a licence sufficient evidence to convict someone of watching TV illegally?

    That is equivalent to being convicted of driving without a licence just because you have not passed your test.
  • tlg86 said:

    It's awful. Surely the Germans have road blocks like we have at Arsenal:

    https://l450v.alamy.com/450v/2c70p5w/harrogate-uk-23-september-2019-temporary-hostile-vehicle-management-anti-ram-safety-barrier-2c70p5w.jpg

    Obviously, these things shouldn't be needed, but come on, they're not difficult to set up in the required spots.
    Where are the required spots? A Ford Transit that swerved into the bus queue outside a school could kill a dozen children and the odd parent. Are we to place barriers by every bus stop in the country? Look at fans converging on a football ground. Central London is full of tourists looking at Christmas decorations.

    The trouble with lone wolf nutters is that kitchen knives and cars are freely available and can kill lots of people provided the attacker does not mind being captured or killed. And people convinced God is on their side often welcome that as a shortcut to heaven.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,613

    Yep, earlier this year it was just 8 days from taking my picture at the printing shop to receiving my new passport in the post.
    You don't need a passport to go to Ashington.
  • Eabhal said:

    A cursory glance at "the video" shows it has already been sped up to make it look more dramatic.

    Given there have been previous similar incidents across Europe, I wouldn't be so sure this is footage from this particular event.
    I have seen the video and the car speed is horrific but what makes you think it is speeded up ?
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,459
    Leon said:

    Starmer is loathsome from basically every angle. Not only grossly incompetent, terrible at politics, a greedy lying grifter, and a charmless egotist, he is also a reeking hypocrite
    Shall I put you down as a Maybe, then?
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,656
    Pagan2 said:

    99.99 percent of mail I get is junk mail...pod isnt enough you need signature for receipt...the evasive easy...put the letter in an amazon box
    Plus had proof of delivery photo's for parcels where gone back to the company and said yeah but that photo isnt where I live....no idea who they delivered it to but it wasn't me....also had plenty of mail from RM which wasnt addressed to my house but a different one so no proof of delivery sorry that fails
  • What’s wrong with ex-MPs? They are surely among the most qualified for the role.
    UNELECTED HAS-BEENS, as mentioned up-thread.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,297

    Yep, earlier this year it was just 8 days from taking my picture at the printing shop to receiving my new passport in the post.
    Yes, I need two passports because job and I had a lovely Scottish lady personally call me and discuss my case and she was charming and efficient (Glasgow passport office?) and both arrived about 5 days later, and considerably earlier than the official ETA

    V pleasing. But HMRC is much more important than UKPO and fucksake they need to sort themselves out. My internatinal flint accountant is not given to swearing or hyperbole but she was cussing the UK and German tax authorities today
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,311

    A lot of cases are decided in the absence of the householder.

    According to Wikipedia the BBC are heavily involved in the language used in the TV licensing letters.

    According to the BBC: "Customer service is the brand experience we create for customers who are currently licensed, unknowingly unlicensed or who don't need a licence", whereas "Collections is the brand experience we create for those customers whose television licence has expired and whom TV Licensing wants to motivate to renew." Finally, the enforcement tone is used for households who have been unlicensed for a longer period.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_licensing_in_the_United_Kingdom

    I believe a previous poster was severely mistaken to put the blame on the contractors. Also worth noting that Wikipedia states that the BBC have a statutory duty to ensure that all households requiring a TV licence have one, so ultimately the responsibility is Parliament's.
    If you tell them you don't need a licence, the certificate is supposed to cover you for 2 years, but the enforcement letters start before even one year has passed.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,493

    Why don't you think Musk is a danger to democracy, in the USA and abroad?
    I disagree with the framing entirely. Why is Musk a 'danger' but conducting an open borders experiment against the wishes of the people is sensible and moderate?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,613
    Off topic: What the feck have illuminated walking sticks got to do with Christmas? These monstrosities have appeared in several nearby gardens.
  • Off topic: What the feck have illuminated walking sticks got to do with Christmas? These monstrosities have appeared in several nearby gardens.

    Candy canes? American.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,313

    Off topic: What the feck have illuminated walking sticks got to do with Christmas? These monstrosities have appeared in several nearby gardens.

    Probably related to this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candy_cane
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,656
    AnneJGP said:

    If you tell them you don't need a licence, the certificate is supposed to cover you for 2 years, but the enforcement letters start before even one year has passed.
    Also if they turn up to your door record the interaction, they have been known to both lie about what was said and fill out the form themselves that they are meant to ask you to fill out because guess what...they get commission
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,927
    Leon said:

    They're all at home. When I call them I can literally hear their fucking pets and kids kicking off, and then they say "Oh I can't find the file, let me get back to you in a few days"

    Well maybe you can't find it because you are sitting on your obese butt in your fucking house in Newent, you pathetic lazy bint

    I have honestly had HMRC twats say to me, "We understand we have failed you, we are now expediting your case"

    EXPEDITING

    And then - nothing. She goes and has another biscuit. If I ran my life like this I'd be out of work in weeks

    It is utterly pathetic. Get them back in the office and halve their pay with the threat of instant dismissal and replacement by a keen, eager, articulate robot
    Hypothetically, if Starmer were to sort out HMRC (extremely unlikely, I know), would you vote for him … again ?
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 9,978
    edited December 2024
    Leon said:

    What are you talking about? Are you claming this event is "faked"??
    No. I'm just pointing out that the video doing the rounds has 1) been altered 2) might not be of the same event.

    It's a bit pathetic of you to suggest that my cautious take on this means I am some sort of terrorist attack denier. Indeed, my take relies on the fact there have been so many similar attacks in the past.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,297
    "JUST IN - The Magdeburg terror attack perpetrator is a man from Saudi Arabia born in 1974, WELT learned from security sources."

  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 29,848
    edited December 2024
    Wham are Christmas number one for a second time
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9dp6y31qppo

    Probably the same next year thanks to Spotify playlists!

    ETA you can see the playlist factor here (image from above page).


  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,116

    I disagree with the framing entirely. Why is Musk a 'danger' but conducting an open borders experiment against the wishes of the people is sensible and moderate?
    Why do you think the two are even remotely comparable?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,297
    edited December 2024
    Nigelb said:

    Hypothetically, if Starmer were to sort out HMRC (extremely unlikely, I know), would you vote for him … again ?
    lolno

    Edit to add: I don't blame this shit on Starmer. But I don't see him sorting out public sector inefficiency
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 9,978

    I have seen the video and the car speed is horrific but what makes you think it is speeded up ?
    The speed at which people run away. Their cadence is way too fast.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,493
    Eabhal said:

    No. I'm just pointing out that the video doing the rounds has 1) been altered 2) might not be of the same event.

    It's a bit pathetic of you to suggest that my cautious take on this suggests I am some sort of terrorist attack denier. Indeed, my take relies on the fact there have been so many similar attacks in the past.
    Footage recorded with a slower frame rate would appear to be sped up when played at normal speed. It wouldn't mean it's been altered.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 5,542
    Leon said:

    Have you not noticed how shit the Royal Mail is now? I reckon 10% of my promised letter and parcels, if sent by Royal Mail, do not make it
    If it cost the BBC's enforcers the same to send each of these letters as it costs us to send a second class letter, there would be fewer of them.

    I haven't had the Christmas one, but I get more than one a month.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,297
    edited December 2024

    Footage recorded with a slower frame rate would appear to be sped up when played at normal speed. It wouldn't mean it's been altered.
    I'm really not sure that real-time real-speed footage of humans being brutally smashed and pulverised by a determined driver of a murderous car would be somehow "better". Less indicting of Islamists, is that your thinking? In what way? We can see the limbs flying more slowly?

    Do provide your reasoning
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 9,978

    Footage recorded with a slower frame rate would appear to be sped up when played at normal speed. It wouldn't mean it's been altered.
    That's true - if German CCTV is recording at 15 FPS or something. But to me the reaction times and distance look too fast as well.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,783
    edited December 2024

    Wham are Christmas number one for a second time
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9dp6y31qppo

    Probably the same next year thanks to Spotify playlists!

    ETA you can see the playlist factor here (image from above page).


    I remember 1994 and Mariah frolicking around in the snow... What a time for a 17 year old lad to be alive! 😂
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,297
    Eabhal said:

    That's true - if German CCTV is recording at 15 FPS or something. But to me the reaction times and distance look too fast as well.
    You're diseased. Many people have died and you are focusing on the speed of the CCTV footage, and whether it is "fake"
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,493
    Eabhal said:

    That's true - if German CCTV is recording at 15 FPS or something. But to me the reaction times and distance look too fast as well.
    So you're not just commenting on the speed of the film but also think it's faked in some way? That's a bit too conspiracy-minded.
  • The Rise of the Right is the Left's Fault - Stephen Fry
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5PR5S4xhXQ

    Stephen Fry agrees with Leon (well, partly)!

    (1 hour video)

    He seems also to have got a lot older recently.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 5,542
    From wikipedia, in happier times:



    Apparently it's a very well-known Christmas market.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 9,978
    Leon said:

    I'm really not sure that real-time real-speed footage of humans being brutally smashed and pulverised by a determined driver of a murderous car would be somehow "better". Less indicting of Islamists, is that your thinking? In what way? We can see the limbs flying more slowly?

    Do provide your reasoning
    Chill out, WG is just pointing out the weird jerky effect you get when you take a old silent film shot at 18fps and play it at 24fps. That might be the case here too, and explain why I thought it had been sped up.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 9,978

    So you're not just commenting on the speed of the film but also think it's faked in some way? That's a bit too conspiracy-minded.
    No, I just think it's been sped up a bit by whoever has shared it.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,297
    Eabhal said:

    Chill out, WG is just pointing out the weird jerky effect you get when you take a old silent film shot at 18fps and play it at 24fps. That might be the case here too, and explain why I thought it had been sped up.
    Your initial instincts were telling, and grotesque
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,564

    How is not having a licence sufficient evidence to convict someone of watching TV illegally?

    That is equivalent to being convicted of driving without a licence just because you have not passed your test.

    Because as I sometimes read BBC news and listen to BBC podcasts, I know that 100% of the nation are glued to every live broadcast update about Bake Off, Strictly and Masterchef.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,116
    Leon said:

    Your initial instincts were telling, and grotesque
    Pot. meet kettle, black.

    What sort of 'change' were you suggesting we need earlier?
  • Off topic: What the feck have illuminated walking sticks got to do with Christmas? These monstrosities have appeared in several nearby gardens.

    We have a few miniature sticks on our Christmas tree, albeit not illuminated.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,858
    Eabhal said:

    No, I just think it's been sped up a bit by whoever has shared it.
    CCTV, especially older systems, often has a lower frames rate than normal continuous filming. As mentioned above.

    This was to reduce storage issues.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,487

    I was thinking about that when I saw Thangam Debbonaire’s (sp?) name on the list. I’d rather see her back in the Commons, but she seems to be a sensible woman and an asset to Parliament.
    An indication that Labour don’t expect to win the seat back anytime soon.
This discussion has been closed.