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This poll is barking – politicalbetting.com

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  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,608
    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    Musk backed Germany's AFD today and with Trump' co campaign director's derogatory comments about Mandelson and add in millions given to Farage by Musk, will this help or hinder Reform?

    The US billionaries, not just Musk, are going to throw their money around in Europe now to finish off democracy aided by Putin and the middle eastern royal dictators. They won't find it particularly hard to win.
    On the big questions, what we have in Europe can't really be called democracy. In this country people have consistently voted for reductions in immigration and got the opposite. Polls show substantial majorities in favour of the death penalty but it's become a political taboo to mention it. This disconnect can't hold forever and if the existing system collapses, it won't be the end of democracy but it's rebirth.
    What voters want is low taxes, high public spending, no immigration but full capacity in healthcare, care and other jobs natives don't want to do. Delivering that mix isn't democracy, it is fantasy.
    I note that you ignored the point about the death penalty. Do you think the idea of reintroducing it is a fantasy?
    Do you think Letby should have gone to the gallows last year?

    The polling for the death penalty is strongest for convicted child killers.
    That would have been a question for the judge. We have decided to accept the risk of people being improperly euthanised so I don't think the potential for miscarriages of justice is decisive as an argument against the death penalty.
    What's an acceptable number of dead innocents per year?
    Well that is a decision people in government already makes with NICE making decisions on treatments to sanction....people die from those denials.

    NICE currently defines it as 20k per qualy year....how do you therefore justify 50k a year to keep a child killer in prison?
    There's a fundamental difference between action to kill someone, and inaction killing someone.

    Hence the trolley problem.

    In any case, support for the death penalty varies. When crime is seen as out of control, and there is no death penalty, then people are generally in favour.

    And when there are high profile examples of it not looking so great (like Derek Bentley), then public opinion tends to go the other way.
    So explain to someone innocent they wont get treatment because it cost's 21k a year so they will have to either go private or die but we will spend 50k a year to keep a child killer alive then probably spend a load more if they are released because not like they are getting a job plus they will no doubt need security cover
    There's no reason why we can't introduce a greater element of work in our prisons to ensure prisoners pay for their upkeep. And it probably results in those released having greater skills and employability than would otherwise be the case.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,161
    Pagan2 said:

    A vote-winning policy from Reform:

    https://x.com/rupertlowe10/status/1870156993463247262

    Look at these threats from the BBC mafia - expect the thugs on Christmas Day!

    When we win in 2029, the licence fee is gone on day one.


    image

    There’s actually a really unpleasant tone to that letter. Not one which a quasi governmental agency should be adopting
    The licence fee demand letters are one of the best arguments in favour of abolishing the licence fee. They're vile.
    Eastenders is the best argument
    Eastenders is one long argument.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,268
    This question needs to be asked of in relation to the attack in Germany:
    rcs1000 said:

    What's an acceptable number of dead innocents per year?

  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,990
    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    Musk backed Germany's AFD today and with Trump' co campaign director's derogatory comments about Mandelson and add in millions given to Farage by Musk, will this help or hinder Reform?

    The US billionaries, not just Musk, are going to throw their money around in Europe now to finish off democracy aided by Putin and the middle eastern royal dictators. They won't find it particularly hard to win.
    On the big questions, what we have in Europe can't really be called democracy. In this country people have consistently voted for reductions in immigration and got the opposite. Polls show substantial majorities in favour of the death penalty but it's become a political taboo to mention it. This disconnect can't hold forever and if the existing system collapses, it won't be the end of democracy but it's rebirth.
    What voters want is low taxes, high public spending, no immigration but full capacity in healthcare, care and other jobs natives don't want to do. Delivering that mix isn't democracy, it is fantasy.
    I note that you ignored the point about the death penalty. Do you think the idea of reintroducing it is a fantasy?
    Do you think Letby should have gone to the gallows last year?

    The polling for the death penalty is strongest for convicted child killers.
    That would have been a question for the judge. We have decided to accept the risk of people being improperly euthanised so I don't think the potential for miscarriages of justice is decisive as an argument against the death penalty.
    What's an acceptable number of dead innocents per year?
    Well that is a decision people in government already makes with NICE making decisions on treatments to sanction....people die from those denials.

    NICE currently defines it as 20k per qualy year....how do you therefore justify 50k a year to keep a child killer in prison?
    There's a fundamental difference between action to kill someone, and inaction killing someone.

    Hence the trolley problem.

    In any case, support for the death penalty varies. When crime is seen as out of control, and there is no death penalty, then people are generally in favour.

    And when there are high profile examples of it not looking so great (like Derek Bentley), then public opinion tends to go the other way.
    So explain to someone innocent they wont get treatment because it cost's 21k a year so they will have to either go private or die but we will spend 50k a year to keep a child killer alive then probably spend a load more if they are released because not like they are getting a job plus they will no doubt need security cover
    There's no reason why we can't introduce a greater element of work in our prisons to ensure prisoners pay for their upkeep. And it probably results in those released having greater skills and employability than would otherwise be the case.
    We could make a lot more by auctioning off execution rights and televisual rights and take some money of the billionaires
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,608

    A vote-winning policy from Reform:

    https://x.com/rupertlowe10/status/1870156993463247262

    Look at these threats from the BBC mafia - expect the thugs on Christmas Day!

    When we win in 2029, the licence fee is gone on day one.


    image

    There’s actually a really unpleasant tone to that letter. Not one which a quasi governmental agency should be adopting
    The licence fee demand letters are one of the best arguments in favour of abolishing the licence fee. They're vile.
    They have the equivalent of the license fee in Japan, and it resulted in an anti-NHK party standing and winning seats in the Japanese Senate.

    Then the party went mad and started ranting about Jews controlling everyhing.

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,082
    Carnyx said:

    A vote-winning policy from Reform:

    https://x.com/rupertlowe10/status/1870156993463247262

    Look at these threats from the BBC mafia - expect the thugs on Christmas Day!

    When we win in 2029, the licence fee is gone on day one.


    image

    There’s actually a really unpleasant tone to that letter. Not one which a quasi governmental agency should be adopting
    It's not. It's the contractors. As I said earlier, they remind me of car park operators.

    Edit: but very much up to the BBC to choose their contractors ...
    The BBC have moral responsibility for the actions of their contractors.

    The idea that contracting something out, contracts the moral risk out, is the mentality of a gangster.

    “I just told Joey to go see Micky and give him a message….”
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    I don't think my Greyhound is Prime Ministerial material.

    Mind you that also goes for all the PMs since 1975
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,443
    Foxy said:

    CHart said:

    Foxy said:

    Musk backed Germany's AFD today and with Trump' co campaign director's derogatory comments about Mandelson and add in millions given to Farage by Musk, will this help or hinder Reform?

    The US billionaries, not just Musk, are going to throw their money around in Europe now to finish off democracy aided by Putin and the middle eastern royal dictators. They won't find it particularly hard to win.
    We will miss democracy when it's gone.
    This man did well out of democracy.

    Two Chinese Students come across Rishi Sunak now living the good life in Santa Monica


    https://x.com/kunley_drukpa/status/1870054757311623644
    I think he got the place in California by marrying well rather than politics.
    Everyone is entitled to some time off.

    Socal is gorgeous though.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,030
    The NDP will now vote for a no confidence motion in Trudeau's government.

    Key ally propping up Canada's Trudeau says he will vote to topple him

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c4glpxpke91o
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,990
    I am aware I am coming of as extreme tonight, I am however upset right now once again have a friend being told there treatment doesn't meet criteria for their illness yet we spend more keeping people like hindley and brady alive
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,172
    We need better gravity wave detectors.

    Could we tell whether anyone in our galaxy uses a warp drive?

    This sounds like a crazy question, but it can be answered using numerical GR …

    https://x.com/martinmbauer/status/1869763981059228072
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    What absolute lunatic has made Toby Young a peer?

    Oh, I see now.

    FPT

    Toby Young, if I rightly remember the Channel 4 docudrama When Boris Met Dave, was at Oxford with Boris and David Cameron. Accepted by mistake, Tobes got a first in PPE like Dave and was sacked from the Times like Boris. He is the quintessential Conservative.
    I know Tobes reasonably well. OOOOH the stories I could tell, but shan't

    He used to be quite a lad, but these days is much more sensible. He is doing genuinely good work with the Free Speech Union, taking on very deserving cases, he has also been cancelled at least twice, quite nastily, generally by people who hate the idea of Academies, or indeed of anyone rightwing

    For the Free Speech Union alone it's a good appointment, far more deserved that 90% of these fucking time wasters on the left. Have you seen Starmer's list? Fucksake Well done Kemi
    I agree. The fact he provokes billious attacks from our lefties says everything about his politics, nothing about his suitability. Do you folks want the Lords rammed to the rafters with centrist drones nodding through every bit of authoritarian lunacy that Sir Helmet dreams up? - Wait don't answer that.
    Look at Starmer's list, and weep for Britain


    Steamer’s new peerages:

    Professor Wendy Alexander
    Sir Brendan Barber
    Luciana Berger
    Mary Bousted
    Kevin Brennan
    Lyn Brown
    Dinah Caine
    Kay Carberry
    Margaret Curran
    Thangam Debbonaire
    Julie Elliott
    David Evans
    Sue Gray
    Theresa Griffin
    Anji Hunter
    Carwyn Jones
    Mike Katz
    Gerard Lemos
    Alison Levitt KC
    Anne Longfield
    Deborah Mattinson
    Steve McCabe
    Claude Morae
    Wendy Nichols
    Simon Pitkeathley
    Dame Anne Marie Rafferty
    Krish Raval
    Marvin Rees

    Revd Dr Russell David Rook
    Phil Wilson
    At the same time they got rid of 42 Conservative peers this is a massive stacking of parliament on party political grounds.

    And narry a whisper from the hypocrite who accused the Tories of electoral malfeasance for asking for voter ID or redistricting
    Starmer is loathsome from basically every angle. Not only grossly incompetent, terrible at politics, a greedy lying grifter, and a charmless egotist, he is also a reeking hypocrite
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,443
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    What absolute lunatic has made Toby Young a peer?

    Oh, I see now.

    FPT

    Toby Young, if I rightly remember the Channel 4 docudrama When Boris Met Dave, was at Oxford with Boris and David Cameron. Accepted by mistake, Tobes got a first in PPE like Dave and was sacked from the Times like Boris. He is the quintessential Conservative.
    I know Tobes reasonably well. OOOOH the stories I could tell, but shan't

    He used to be quite a lad, but these days is much more sensible. He is doing genuinely good work with the Free Speech Union, taking on very deserving cases, he has also been cancelled at least twice, quite nastily, generally by people who hate the idea of Academies, or indeed of anyone rightwing

    For the Free Speech Union alone it's a good appointment, far more deserved that 90% of these fucking time wasters on the left. Have you seen Starmer's list? Fucksake Well done Kemi
    I agree. The fact he provokes billious attacks from our lefties says everything about his politics, nothing about his suitability. Do you folks want the Lords rammed to the rafters with centrist drones nodding through every bit of authoritarian lunacy that Sir Helmet dreams up? - Wait don't answer that.
    Look at Starmer's list, and weep for Britain


    Steamer’s new peerages:

    Professor Wendy Alexander
    Sir Brendan Barber
    Luciana Berger
    Mary Bousted
    Kevin Brennan
    Lyn Brown
    Dinah Caine
    Kay Carberry
    Margaret Curran
    Thangam Debbonaire
    Julie Elliott
    David Evans
    Sue Gray
    Theresa Griffin
    Anji Hunter
    Carwyn Jones
    Mike Katz
    Gerard Lemos
    Alison Levitt KC
    Anne Longfield
    Deborah Mattinson
    Steve McCabe
    Claude Morae
    Wendy Nichols
    Simon Pitkeathley
    Dame Anne Marie Rafferty
    Krish Raval
    Marvin Rees

    Revd Dr Russell David Rook
    Phil Wilson
    At the same time they got rid of 42 Conservative peers this is a massive stacking of parliament on party political grounds.

    And narry a whisper from the hypocrite who accused the Tories of electoral malfeasance for asking for voter ID or redistricting

    They didn't get rid of Conservative peers. They got rid of hereditaries. Not the same thing.

    The Tories are still the largest party in the Lords as I understand it.
    42 of the life peers were elected by conservatives vs 2 elected by labour peers.

    Grant that that is wrong (I was in favour a proper reform of the lords to get rid of the hereditaries) but this is a massive change in the composition of the house by executive fiat
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736

    I don't think my Greyhound is Prime Ministerial material.

    Mind you that also goes for all the PMs since 1975

    Speaking of hounds. Not sure if it's true Harvey Proctor owned a Whippet
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    Sweet Jesus

    "Reports of at least 11 Killed and over 60 Injured, after a Car drove Full-Speed into a Christmas Market in the Eastern German City of Magdeburg, with Police investigating the Incident as a Terrorist Attack"

    https://x.com/sentdefender/status/1870186579282841869

    Far Right parties are going to be elected across Europe. Le Pen in France, possibly a CDU/AfD Coalition in Germany. And so on
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,420
    kle4 said:

    1. Attendance requirements - it's not full time, but it's more than an occasional hobby
    2. No ex-MPs/political staffers/donors right away - it's not a retirement home, reward for being a loser, or to be a prize to be bought
    3. Greater time for scrutiny
    Simple and straightforward.


    What’s wrong with ex-MPs? They are surely among the most qualified for the role.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    Pagan2 said:

    I am aware I am coming of as extreme tonight, I am however upset right now once again have a friend being told there treatment doesn't meet criteria for their illness yet we spend more keeping people like hindley and brady alive

    There are many extreme thoughts, tonight
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,990

    kle4 said:

    1. Attendance requirements - it's not full time, but it's more than an occasional hobby
    2. No ex-MPs/political staffers/donors right away - it's not a retirement home, reward for being a loser, or to be a prize to be bought
    3. Greater time for scrutiny
    Simple and straightforward.


    What’s wrong with ex-MPs? They are surely among the most qualified for the role.
    If they are ex mp's voters have judged them unfit to govern so you put them back in a government role in the lords....thats what is wrong
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    Oh my god there's a video

    Fucking hell

    Will not even link
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,420
    BBC report:

    “A car has crashed into a crowd at a Christmas market in east Germany, local media report.

    “A least one person has been killed and several injured in the incident in Magdeburg, according to German public broadcaster MDR.”
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,378

    viewcode said:

    Musk backed Germany's AFD today and with Trump' co campaign director's derogatory comments about Mandelson and add in millions given to Farage by Musk, will this help or hinder Reform?

    The US billionaries, not just Musk, are going to throw their money around in Europe now to finish off democracy aided by Putin and the middle eastern royal dictators. They won't find it particularly hard to win.
    On the big questions, what we have in Europe can't really be called democracy. In this country people have consistently voted for reductions in immigration and got the opposite. Polls show substantial majorities in favour of the death penalty but it's become a political taboo to mention it. This disconnect can't hold forever and if the existing system collapses, it won't be the end of democracy but it's rebirth.
    What voters want is low taxes, high public spending, no immigration but full capacity in healthcare, care and other jobs natives don't want to do. Delivering that mix isn't democracy, it is fantasy.
    I note that you ignored the point about the death penalty. Do you think the idea of reintroducing it is a fantasy?
    Clearly democracies can have the death penalty, USA and Japan as examples. It is up to parties to put it into a manifesto and get elected. I don't think it a particular barrier to being elected here.
    It clearly is a barrier because among other things, reinstating the death penalty would involve withdrawing from the ECHR which on its own would provoke hysterical opposition.
    You are confusing what is possible within the legacy of the Conservative party and what is possible within the UK. Yes the Conservative party establishment are too divided on leaving ECHR or the death penalty to make it sensible to make it part of their pitch. That doesn't stop others doing so and winning, if the voters want it, nor the Conservative party changing further over time.
    So you would argue that if a party with such a platform came to power in the UK or another European country, it would simply be democracy working as it should?
    It would be democratic. US and Japan up until now have the death penalty and are not in the ECHR, they are democracies.

    A caveat would be that such parties tend to (not always) have a taste for the authoritarian in general which would weaken democracy. But on their own, there is nothing undemocratic about the death penalty or membership of the ECHR.
    We have polling evidence that there is a disconnect between public opinion, and a stipulation of membership of the ECHR, yet membership of the ECHR is woven into constitutional legislation like the Good Friday Agreement. It acts as a brake on democracy by design.
    As repeatedly pointed out public opinion is not internally logically consistent nor is it static or always deliverable.

    And democracy is as much about the rule of law, independent judiciary as it is about the will of the people.
    We had the rule of law and an independent judiciary long before we had universal suffrage.
    Putins Russia has elections and he wins. He exagerrates the totals but he would win anyway. It is not what people mean by democracy.
    Saying that he would win anyway is Putinist propaganda. Nobody in a freely-contested system could retain power for 25 years.
    Japan's LDP would beg to differ:

    As I pointed out in my Parties article , it is entirely possible to hold power indefinitely in a democracy. You just say which parties can exist, and ensure that you have a veto over which candidates they can field. The votes are real, the results accurate, but the 'wrong' people never get to stand.
    It's not democracy in that case, because such a scheme would not be possible if you had the freedom to protest, freedom of the Press, an independent judiciary, etc.

    Democratic elections are a consequence of more fundamental elements of democracy - law and dissent. You can trivially have meaningless elections if there is not the rule of law or freedom to dissent, but in that case you don't have democracy.

    Edit: I've been disappointed that the rhetoric on Syria from some in the West doesn't recognise this, and there is too much emphasis on elections, and not enough on the rule of law and freedom of speech.
    You're redefining "democracy" to win your case. Although I agree with you that freedom of the press (now freedom of speech), freedom to create a party that represents your position and to recruit others to that cause, freedom to advocate positions currently illegal, etc are highly desirable, they are not necessary for democracy, and this deficit is democracy's Achilles heel.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496

    BBC report:

    “A car has crashed into a crowd at a Christmas market in east Germany, local media report.

    “A least one person has been killed and several injured in the incident in Magdeburg, according to German public broadcaster MDR.”

    Watch the video. At your moral peril

    If only one person has died it is a genuine Christmas miracle; I fear that has not happened
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,818
    edited December 20
    Leon said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Nearly finished a week of doing my taxes. Just a couple of hours needed now, after Christmas

    What gets me REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY QUITE RESENTFUL is the fact that: if I am a day late filing my returns, I get INSTANTLY fined. But HMRC, all working from home, are now taking A YEAR to process Tax Exemption forms, despite multiple calls, and feeble promises, thereby costing me serious money

    Utter state of this country

    I'm not joking. A YEAR. AT LEAST

    To process one form
    Bureacracies tend to be more concerned with adherence to their own rules by others than their own compliance with standards, rules, or the law.
    It's making me quite irritable. I spoke to my Knapping Foreign Tax Accountant today, and she said the only tax authority in the world that is as fucked up as the UK's is....Germany's

    And it just so happens that my much-needed tax form is for exemption from tax by.... Germany

    She said "the whole thing could take easily two years, or more"

    I've already waited one year for the UK - AND THEY STILL HAVEN'T DELIVERED - and even when I get the form, perhaps when I am dead, I have to wait at least another year for the fucking krauts to be as shite as the British

    It is emblematic of the two sick men of Europe. Germany and the UK
    We sent a form to reclaim some German VAT (MwSt) (Well our German accountants did) a few weeks back. I reckon it'll be at least a couple of years we're out of pocket (If we're lucky) on it
    Fucking maddening. I reckon HMRC's pitiful chaos - along with that of Germany's - is costing me thousands. Maybe tens of thousands if for some reason I keel over in the interim

    WTF am I meant to do? My government no longer serves its purpose, it cannot run an efficient state. And yet when I vote for the other lot, they are just as bad, indeed significantly worse

    For this reason alone I will vote Reform, to terrify the shit out of ALL the Establishment. I want them frightened for their jobs and I want half of them sacked
    still waiting for a refund from HMRC from April - all it says is "pending" -apparently referred to a special department despite them accepting evidence of the pension contributions that caused the refund. Can you get to talk to that department? -nah of course not - the only conversation you will have (after about 30 minutes of infuriating nannying messages about finding out online any query ) is with yourself saying "Fing hell" when it then cuts you off.

    Jim Harra (the CEO of HMRC) should have been sacked years ago due to this abysmal customer service
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,420
    Pagan2 said:

    kle4 said:

    1. Attendance requirements - it's not full time, but it's more than an occasional hobby
    2. No ex-MPs/political staffers/donors right away - it's not a retirement home, reward for being a loser, or to be a prize to be bought
    3. Greater time for scrutiny
    Simple and straightforward.


    What’s wrong with ex-MPs? They are surely among the most qualified for the role.
    If they are ex mp's voters have judged them unfit to govern so you put them back in a government role in the lords....thats what is wrong
    An ex-MP hasn’t necessarily lost an election. They may have chosen not to stand again.

    I think we should have an elected upper house. But if we’re going to have appointments, then why not appoint experienced legislators?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,877
    edited December 20
    I'll make this my photo quota for today. I've been threatening PB wiyh a Vorrangsplein junction, and this is the first in the UK, in Sheffield.

    It's a way of simplifying a junction between a minor, and major, road, such that decisions are made in sequence rather than all at once, by drivers especially. For motor traffic, a driver from the minor road addresses pedestrians and cycles, then traffic one way, then the other way, rather than all at once. A driver on the major route slows down a little. And cycles and pedestrians have their own more easily readable routes to follow.


    Video and Chatter on Bluesky:
    https://bsky.app/profile/harryhamishgray.bsky.social/post/3ldbmgz5uvc2s

    I wasn't familiar with these until yesterday, so am still reflecting. Here's a detailed blog post:
    https://therantyhighwayman.blogspot.com/2021/02/voorrangsplein-part-1.html
    https://therantyhighwayman.blogspot.com/2021/03/voorrangsplein-part-2.html
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    edited December 20

    Leon said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Nearly finished a week of doing my taxes. Just a couple of hours needed now, after Christmas

    What gets me REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY QUITE RESENTFUL is the fact that: if I am a day late filing my returns, I get INSTANTLY fined. But HMRC, all working from home, are now taking A YEAR to process Tax Exemption forms, despite multiple calls, and feeble promises, thereby costing me serious money

    Utter state of this country

    I'm not joking. A YEAR. AT LEAST

    To process one form
    Bureacracies tend to be more concerned with adherence to their own rules by others than their own compliance with standards, rules, or the law.
    It's making me quite irritable. I spoke to my Knapping Foreign Tax Accountant today, and she said the only tax authority in the world that is as fucked up as the UK's is....Germany's

    And it just so happens that my much-needed tax form is for exemption from tax by.... Germany

    She said "the whole thing could take easily two years, or more"

    I've already waited one year for the UK - AND THEY STILL HAVEN'T DELIVERED - and even when I get the form, perhaps when I am dead, I have to wait at least another year for the fucking krauts to be as shite as the British

    It is emblematic of the two sick men of Europe. Germany and the UK
    We sent a form to reclaim some German VAT (MwSt) (Well our German accountants did) a few weeks back. I reckon it'll be at least a couple of years we're out of pocket (If we're lucky) on it
    Fucking maddening. I reckon HMRC's pitiful chaos - along with that of Germany's - is costing me thousands. Maybe tens of thousands if for some reason I keel over in the interim

    WTF am I meant to do? My government no longer serves its purpose, it cannot run an efficient state. And yet when I vote for the other lot, they are just as bad, indeed significantly worse

    For this reason alone I will vote Reform, to terrify the shit out of ALL the Establishment. I want them frightened for their jobs and I want half of them sacked
    still waiting for a refund from HMRC from April - all it says is "pending" -apparently referred to a special department despite them accepting evidence of the pension contributions that caused the refund. Can you get to talk to that department -nah of course not - the only conversation you will have (after about 30 minutes of infuriating nannying messages about finding out online any query ) is with yourself saying "Fing hell" when it then cuts you off
    They're all at home. When I call them I can literally hear their fucking pets and kids kicking off, and then they say "Oh I can't find the file, let me get back to you in a few days"

    Well maybe you can't find it because you are sitting on your obese butt in your fucking house in Newent, you pathetic lazy bint

    I have honestly had HMRC twats say to me, "We understand we have failed you, we are now expediting your case"

    EXPEDITING

    And then - nothing. She goes and has another biscuit. If I ran my life like this I'd be out of work in weeks

    It is utterly pathetic. Get them back in the office and halve their pay with the threat of instant dismissal and replacement by a keen, eager, articulate robot
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,091
    8

    A vote-winning policy from Reform:

    https://x.com/rupertlowe10/status/1870156993463247262

    Look at these threats from the BBC mafia - expect the thugs on Christmas Day!

    When we win in 2029, the licence fee is gone on day one.


    image

    There’s actually a really unpleasant tone to that letter. Not one which a quasi governmental agency should be adopting
    The licence fee demand letters are one of the best arguments in favour of abolishing the licence fee. They're vile.
    I have a long history of not having a television, so a long history of getting these threatening letters. Recently I heard of a new one I haven't seen personally. Apparently they start legal proceedings and if you don't reply to their letter (eg you've just recycled it unopened) you can be found guilty in absentia. So you have to pay the fine even if you genuinely don't need a license.

    Good evening, everybody.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,220
    Leon said:

    BBC report:

    “A car has crashed into a crowd at a Christmas market in east Germany, local media report.

    “A least one person has been killed and several injured in the incident in Magdeburg, according to German public broadcaster MDR.”

    Watch the video. At your moral peril

    If only one person has died it is a genuine Christmas miracle; I fear that has not happened
    It's awful. Surely the Germans have road blocks like we have at Arsenal:

    https://l450v.alamy.com/450v/2c70p5w/harrogate-uk-23-september-2019-temporary-hostile-vehicle-management-anti-ram-safety-barrier-2c70p5w.jpg

    Obviously, these things shouldn't be needed, but come on, they're not difficult to set up in the required spots.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,694
    Pagan2 said:

    kle4 said:

    1. Attendance requirements - it's not full time, but it's more than an occasional hobby
    2. No ex-MPs/political staffers/donors right away - it's not a retirement home, reward for being a loser, or to be a prize to be bought
    3. Greater time for scrutiny
    Simple and straightforward.


    What’s wrong with ex-MPs? They are surely among the most qualified for the role.
    If they are ex mp's voters have judged them unfit to govern so you put them back in a government role in the lords....thats what is wrong
    I was thinking about that when I saw Thangam Debbonaire’s (sp?) name on the list. I’d rather see her back in the Commons, but she seems to be a sensible woman and an asset to Parliament.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,895
    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Musk backed Germany's AFD today and with Trump' co campaign director's derogatory comments about Mandelson and add in millions given to Farage by Musk, will this help or hinder Reform?

    The US billionaries, not just Musk, are going to throw their money around in Europe now to finish off democracy aided by Putin and the middle eastern royal dictators. They won't find it particularly hard to win.
    On the big questions, what we have in Europe can't really be called democracy. In this country people have consistently voted for reductions in immigration and got the opposite. Polls show substantial majorities in favour of the death penalty but it's become a political taboo to mention it. This disconnect can't hold forever and if the existing system collapses, it won't be the end of democracy but it's rebirth.
    What voters want is low taxes, high public spending, no immigration but full capacity in healthcare, care and other jobs natives don't want to do. Delivering that mix isn't democracy, it is fantasy.
    I note that you ignored the point about the death penalty. Do you think the idea of reintroducing it is a fantasy?
    Clearly democracies can have the death penalty, USA and Japan as examples. It is up to parties to put it into a manifesto and get elected. I don't think it a particular barrier to being elected here.
    It clearly is a barrier because among other things, reinstating the death penalty would involve withdrawing from the ECHR which on its own would provoke hysterical opposition.
    You are confusing what is possible within the legacy of the Conservative party and what is possible within the UK. Yes the Conservative party establishment are too divided on leaving ECHR or the death penalty to make it sensible to make it part of their pitch. That doesn't stop others doing so and winning, if the voters want it, nor the Conservative party changing further over time.
    So you would argue that if a party with such a platform came to power in the UK or another European country, it would simply be democracy working as it should?
    It would be democratic. US and Japan up until now have the death penalty and are not in the ECHR, they are democracies.

    A caveat would be that such parties tend to (not always) have a taste for the authoritarian in general which would weaken democracy. But on their own, there is nothing undemocratic about the death penalty or membership of the ECHR.
    We have polling evidence that there is a disconnect between public opinion, and a stipulation of membership of the ECHR, yet membership of the ECHR is woven into constitutional legislation like the Good Friday Agreement. It acts as a brake on democracy by design.
    As repeatedly pointed out public opinion is not internally logically consistent nor is it static or always deliverable.

    And democracy is as much about the rule of law, independent judiciary as it is about the will of the people.
    We had the rule of law and an independent judiciary long before we had universal suffrage.
    Putins Russia has elections and he wins. He exagerrates the totals but he would win anyway. It is not what people mean by democracy.
    Saying that he would win anyway is Putinist propaganda. Nobody in a freely-contested system could retain power for 25 years.
    Japan's LDP would beg to differ:

    As I pointed out in my Parties article , it is entirely possible to hold power indefinitely in a democracy. You just say which parties can exist, and ensure that you have a veto over which candidates they can field. The votes are real, the results accurate, but the 'wrong' people never get to stand.
    It's not democracy in that case, because such a scheme would not be possible if you had the freedom to protest, freedom of the Press, an independent judiciary, etc.

    Democratic elections are a consequence of more fundamental elements of democracy - law and dissent. You can trivially have meaningless elections if there is not the rule of law or freedom to dissent, but in that case you don't have democracy.

    Edit: I've been disappointed that the rhetoric on Syria from some in the West doesn't recognise this, and there is too much emphasis on elections, and not enough on the rule of law and freedom of speech.
    You're redefining "democracy" to win your case. Although I agree with you that freedom of the press (now freedom of speech), freedom to create a party that represents your position and to recruit others to that cause, freedom to advocate positions currently illegal, etc are highly desirable, they are not necessary for democracy, and this deficit is democracy's Achilles heel.
    On one level all definitions are arbitrary, but the definition I'm using has long-standing. It's why Britain is generally considered to be a democracy in the 19th century, despite being well short of universal suffrage, and it also didn't have full freedom of assembly for much of that period either.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    edited December 20

    kle4 said:

    1. Attendance requirements - it's not full time, but it's more than an occasional hobby
    2. No ex-MPs/political staffers/donors right away - it's not a retirement home, reward for being a loser, or to be a prize to be bought
    3. Greater time for scrutiny
    Simple and straightforward.


    What’s wrong with ex-MPs? They are surely among the most qualified for the role.
    My problem with ex-MPs is how they are appointed, as compensation when they lose, or to convince some old duffer to stand aside in their seat to get in some new blood. Being appointed right after not being an MP also means they are still immersed in the day to day political psychodrama of the Commons, and therefore not in the right frame of mind for the more scrutiny minded focus of the Lords. You will get some decent ones, but you will also get a bunch of the most useless political lapdogs that exist.

    That's why I favour a delay before they can go to the Lords of 2 parliaments/10 years - so that they have demonstrated a) additional achievements/skills beyond merely being an MP, and b) gain a level of seperation and perspective on politics because they have been away from it for a little while.
  • Shecorns88Shecorns88 Posts: 279

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Musk backed Germany's AFD today and with Trump' co campaign director's derogatory comments about Mandelson and add in millions given to Farage by Musk, will this help or hinder Reform?

    The US billionaries, not just Musk, are going to throw their money around in Europe now to finish off democracy aided by Putin and the middle eastern royal dictators. They won't find it particularly hard to win.
    We will miss democracy when it's gone.
    Funny that the Lib Dems literally campaigned to Revoke democracy, ie the Brexit referendum, and most of the Left wanted to annul democracy, by not enacting Brexit and having a 2nd vote to reverse it without even implementing it, ie telling the voters they don't count

    Didn't see many lefties and Lib Dems "missing democracy" back then
    Don't forget shecorns missive here advocating a grand coalition to keep out reform if they polled most
    The abolishing elections (temporarily) to save democracy was the corker…
    In 1939 all Parties in the UK united to fight Hitler. Hitler and the right wing British Press wanted to install Moseley and the ex King to give Hitler power

    Now we have another Trojan Horse like Moseley in Farage Trump is not Hitler he is a mere puppet. The Fuhrer of 21st century fascism is Musk.

    Musk poses far greater threat to the world than Hitler.

    Idiots saying they will vote Reform because they can't be arsed to fill in a Tax Return on time, having had 9 months warning, may think they are funny, but make no mistake Reform as a Musk puppet would destroy Britain.

    Imagine London like Damascus or Beirut in 2030...its real and Reform are a cancer within
    ..
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,990
    AnneJGP said:

    8

    A vote-winning policy from Reform:

    https://x.com/rupertlowe10/status/1870156993463247262

    Look at these threats from the BBC mafia - expect the thugs on Christmas Day!

    When we win in 2029, the licence fee is gone on day one.


    image

    There’s actually a really unpleasant tone to that letter. Not one which a quasi governmental agency should be adopting
    The licence fee demand letters are one of the best arguments in favour of abolishing the licence fee. They're vile.
    I have a long history of not having a television, so a long history of getting these threatening letters. Recently I heard of a new one I haven't seen personally. Apparently they start legal proceedings and if you don't reply to their letter (eg you've just recycled it unopened) you can be found guilty in absentia. So you have to pay the fine even if you genuinely don't need a license.

    Good evening, everybody.
    If you can be tried and convicted without being ever told you are told you are on trial then this is not a country of law and justice
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    edited December 20

    Pagan2 said:

    kle4 said:

    1. Attendance requirements - it's not full time, but it's more than an occasional hobby
    2. No ex-MPs/political staffers/donors right away - it's not a retirement home, reward for being a loser, or to be a prize to be bought
    3. Greater time for scrutiny
    Simple and straightforward.


    What’s wrong with ex-MPs? They are surely among the most qualified for the role.
    If they are ex mp's voters have judged them unfit to govern so you put them back in a government role in the lords....thats what is wrong
    An ex-MP hasn’t necessarily lost an election. They may have chosen not to stand again.

    I think we should have an elected upper house. But if we’re going to have appointments, then why not appoint experienced legislators?
    As per my other reply the issue for me is the cronyism means you get a mix of decent ex-MPs, and a bunch of timeserving nonentities, but more its because I think the Lords serves a slightly different role than the Commons, and ex-MPs should show additional reason they deserve to be reappointed to the legislature (for life), and a separation of time enables that and allows for them to take a step back from being immersed in toe dogfights of national top level politics, and so approach the new role in a better frame of mind.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,990
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    1. Attendance requirements - it's not full time, but it's more than an occasional hobby
    2. No ex-MPs/political staffers/donors right away - it's not a retirement home, reward for being a loser, or to be a prize to be bought
    3. Greater time for scrutiny
    Simple and straightforward.


    What’s wrong with ex-MPs? They are surely among the most qualified for the role.
    My problem with ex-MPs is how they are appointed, as compensation when they lose, or to convince some old duffer to stand aside in their seat to get in some new blood. Being appointed right after not being an MP also means they are still immersed in the day to day political psychodrama of the Commons, and therefore not in the right frame of mind for the more scrutiny minded focus of the Lords. You will get some decent ones, but you will also get a bunch of the most useless political lapdogs that exist.

    That's why I favour a delay before they can go to the Lords of 2 parliaments/10 years - so that they have demonstrated a) additional achievements/skills beyond merely being an MP, and b) gain a level of seperation and perspective on politics because they have been away from it for a little while.
    Also given the last few decades arguing ex mp's are most qualified to govern is somewhat risible they are the ones that landed us in this mess
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    tlg86 said:

    Leon said:

    BBC report:

    “A car has crashed into a crowd at a Christmas market in east Germany, local media report.

    “A least one person has been killed and several injured in the incident in Magdeburg, according to German public broadcaster MDR.”

    Watch the video. At your moral peril

    If only one person has died it is a genuine Christmas miracle; I fear that has not happened
    It's awful. Surely the Germans have road blocks like we have at Arsenal:

    https://l450v.alamy.com/450v/2c70p5w/harrogate-uk-23-september-2019-temporary-hostile-vehicle-management-anti-ram-safety-barrier-2c70p5w.jpg

    Obviously, these things shouldn't be needed, but come on, they're not difficult to set up in the required spots.
    Apparently they did have them and it wasn't enough. Who knows. Maybe - maybe - we will find out

    Why should we have to live in fear at our own Christmas markets, in Christian countries? With militarised police and massive barriers? Which arguably don't work?

    We should not. We need change
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,433
    Leon said:

    tlg86 said:

    Leon said:

    BBC report:

    “A car has crashed into a crowd at a Christmas market in east Germany, local media report.

    “A least one person has been killed and several injured in the incident in Magdeburg, according to German public broadcaster MDR.”

    Watch the video. At your moral peril

    If only one person has died it is a genuine Christmas miracle; I fear that has not happened
    It's awful. Surely the Germans have road blocks like we have at Arsenal:

    https://l450v.alamy.com/450v/2c70p5w/harrogate-uk-23-september-2019-temporary-hostile-vehicle-management-anti-ram-safety-barrier-2c70p5w.jpg

    Obviously, these things shouldn't be needed, but come on, they're not difficult to set up in the required spots.
    Apparently they did have them and it wasn't enough. Who knows. Maybe - maybe - we will find out

    Why should we have to live in fear at our own Christmas markets, in Christian countries? With militarised police and massive barriers? Which arguably don't work?

    We should not. We need change
    What sort of 'change' are you suggesting?
  • AnneJGP said:

    8

    A vote-winning policy from Reform:

    https://x.com/rupertlowe10/status/1870156993463247262

    Look at these threats from the BBC mafia - expect the thugs on Christmas Day!

    When we win in 2029, the licence fee is gone on day one.


    image

    There’s actually a really unpleasant tone to that letter. Not one which a quasi governmental agency should be adopting
    The licence fee demand letters are one of the best arguments in favour of abolishing the licence fee. They're vile.
    I have a long history of not having a television, so a long history of getting these threatening letters. Recently I heard of a new one I haven't seen personally. Apparently they start legal proceedings and if you don't reply to their letter (eg you've just recycled it unopened) you can be found guilty in absentia. So you have to pay the fine even if you genuinely don't need a license.

    Good evening, everybody.
    Thanks Anne, that's very helpful and informative. Our next door neighbour has been getting these letters for years. He's blind.

    I'll be watching out for the arrival of any such threats now.

    They really are quite vile letters.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,268
    The hysterical response from many to Musk's AfD tweet couldn't have had worse timing.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,895
    AnneJGP said:

    8

    A vote-winning policy from Reform:

    https://x.com/rupertlowe10/status/1870156993463247262

    Look at these threats from the BBC mafia - expect the thugs on Christmas Day!

    When we win in 2029, the licence fee is gone on day one.


    image

    There’s actually a really unpleasant tone to that letter. Not one which a quasi governmental agency should be adopting
    The licence fee demand letters are one of the best arguments in favour of abolishing the licence fee. They're vile.
    I have a long history of not having a television, so a long history of getting these threatening letters. Recently I heard of a new one I haven't seen personally. Apparently they start legal proceedings and if you don't reply to their letter (eg you've just recycled it unopened) you can be found guilty in absentia. So you have to pay the fine even if you genuinely don't need a license.

    Good evening, everybody.
    A lot of cases are decided in the absence of the householder.

    According to Wikipedia the BBC are heavily involved in the language used in the TV licensing letters.

    According to the BBC: "Customer service is the brand experience we create for customers who are currently licensed, unknowingly unlicensed or who don't need a licence", whereas "Collections is the brand experience we create for those customers whose television licence has expired and whom TV Licensing wants to motivate to renew." Finally, the enforcement tone is used for households who have been unlicensed for a longer period.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_licensing_in_the_United_Kingdom

    I believe a previous poster was severely mistaken to put the blame on the contractors. Also worth noting that Wikipedia states that the BBC have a statutory duty to ensure that all households requiring a TV licence have one, so ultimately the responsibility is Parliament's.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,420
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    1. Attendance requirements - it's not full time, but it's more than an occasional hobby
    2. No ex-MPs/political staffers/donors right away - it's not a retirement home, reward for being a loser, or to be a prize to be bought
    3. Greater time for scrutiny
    Simple and straightforward.


    What’s wrong with ex-MPs? They are surely among the most qualified for the role.
    My problem with ex-MPs is how they are appointed, as compensation when they lose, or to convince some old duffer to stand aside in their seat to get in some new blood. Being appointed right after not being an MP also means they are still immersed in the day to day political psychodrama of the Commons, and therefore not in the right frame of mind for the more scrutiny minded focus of the Lords. You will get some decent ones, but you will also get a bunch of the most useless political lapdogs that exist.

    That's why I favour a delay before they can go to the Lords of 2 parliaments/10 years - so that they have demonstrated a) additional achievements/skills beyond merely being an MP, and b) gain a level of seperation and perspective on politics because they have been away from it for a little while.
    Seems pointlessly complicated. No-one else getting elevated to the Lords is judged on their additional achievements, level of separation or perspective.

    The obvious approach is to do what nearly every other democracy does and have elections. If you’re going to appoint, then tinkering around with rules like this is make-work.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,330
    edited December 20
    Pagan2 said:

    AnneJGP said:

    8

    A vote-winning policy from Reform:

    https://x.com/rupertlowe10/status/1870156993463247262

    Look at these threats from the BBC mafia - expect the thugs on Christmas Day!

    When we win in 2029, the licence fee is gone on day one.


    image

    There’s actually a really unpleasant tone to that letter. Not one which a quasi governmental agency should be adopting
    The licence fee demand letters are one of the best arguments in favour of abolishing the licence fee. They're vile.
    I have a long history of not having a television, so a long history of getting these threatening letters. Recently I heard of a new one I haven't seen personally. Apparently they start legal proceedings and if you don't reply to their letter (eg you've just recycled it unopened) you can be found guilty in absentia. So you have to pay the fine even if you genuinely don't need a license.

    Good evening, everybody.
    If you can be tried and convicted without being ever told you are told you are on trial then this is not a country of law and justice
    That's normal with civil court cases, isn't it? You're called to court, you don't defend yourself ... you lose. But that isn't 'conviction'.

    It's only criminal if you don't pay up the ensuing charge/penalty [edit], I believe. Then you do get convicted.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,990
    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    AnneJGP said:

    8

    A vote-winning policy from Reform:

    https://x.com/rupertlowe10/status/1870156993463247262

    Look at these threats from the BBC mafia - expect the thugs on Christmas Day!

    When we win in 2029, the licence fee is gone on day one.


    image

    There’s actually a really unpleasant tone to that letter. Not one which a quasi governmental agency should be adopting
    The licence fee demand letters are one of the best arguments in favour of abolishing the licence fee. They're vile.
    I have a long history of not having a television, so a long history of getting these threatening letters. Recently I heard of a new one I haven't seen personally. Apparently they start legal proceedings and if you don't reply to their letter (eg you've just recycled it unopened) you can be found guilty in absentia. So you have to pay the fine even if you genuinely don't need a license.

    Good evening, everybody.
    If you can be tried and convicted without being ever told you are told you are on trial then this is not a country of law and justice
    That's normal with civil court cases, isn't it? You're called to court, you don't defend yourself ... you lose. But that isn't 'conviction'.

    It's only criminal if you don't pay up, I believe. Then you do get convicted.
    Which is fine if you know and don't turn up. The implication was they weren't told of a court summons
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,632
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Nearly finished a week of doing my taxes. Just a couple of hours needed now, after Christmas

    What gets me REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY QUITE RESENTFUL is the fact that: if I am a day late filing my returns, I get INSTANTLY fined. But HMRC, all working from home, are now taking A YEAR to process Tax Exemption forms, despite multiple calls, and feeble promises, thereby costing me serious money

    Utter state of this country

    I'm not joking. A YEAR. AT LEAST

    To process one form
    Bureacracies tend to be more concerned with adherence to their own rules by others than their own compliance with standards, rules, or the law.
    It's making me quite irritable. I spoke to my Knapping Foreign Tax Accountant today, and she said the only tax authority in the world that is as fucked up as the UK's is....Germany's

    And it just so happens that my much-needed tax form is for exemption from tax by.... Germany

    She said "the whole thing could take easily two years, or more"

    I've already waited one year for the UK - AND THEY STILL HAVEN'T DELIVERED - and even when I get the form, perhaps when I am dead, I have to wait at least another year for the fucking krauts to be as shite as the British

    It is emblematic of the two sick men of Europe. Germany and the UK
    We sent a form to reclaim some German VAT (MwSt) (Well our German accountants did) a few weeks back. I reckon it'll be at least a couple of years we're out of pocket (If we're lucky) on it
    Fucking maddening. I reckon HMRC's pitiful chaos - along with that of Germany's - is costing me thousands. Maybe tens of thousands if for some reason I keel over in the interim

    WTF am I meant to do? My government no longer serves its purpose, it cannot run an efficient state. And yet when I vote for the other lot, they are just as bad, indeed significantly worse

    For this reason alone I will vote Reform, to terrify the shit out of ALL the Establishment. I want them frightened for their jobs and I want half of them sacked
    still waiting for a refund from HMRC from April - all it says is "pending" -apparently referred to a special department despite them accepting evidence of the pension contributions that caused the refund. Can you get to talk to that department -nah of course not - the only conversation you will have (after about 30 minutes of infuriating nannying messages about finding out online any query ) is with yourself saying "Fing hell" when it then cuts you off
    They're all at home. When I call them I can literally hear their fucking pets and kids kicking off, and then they say "Oh I can't find the file, let me get back to you in a few days"

    Well maybe you can't find it because you are sitting on your obese butt in your fucking house in Newent, you pathetic lazy bint

    I have honestly had HMRC twats say to me, "We understand we have failed you, we are now expediting your case"

    EXPEDITING

    And then - nothing. She goes and has another biscuit. If I ran my life like this I'd be out of work in weeks

    It is utterly pathetic. Get them back in the office and halve their pay with the threat of instant dismissal and replacement by a keen, eager, articulate robot
    I've always found them quite good. Maybe I'm just lucky.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,433

    The hysterical response from many to Musk's AfD tweet couldn't have had worse timing.

    'Hysterical' ?

    Not really. Perhaps we should actually wait and see what's happened, and by who.

    Playing political games with this sort of event is really shitty.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    edited December 20

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    1. Attendance requirements - it's not full time, but it's more than an occasional hobby
    2. No ex-MPs/political staffers/donors right away - it's not a retirement home, reward for being a loser, or to be a prize to be bought
    3. Greater time for scrutiny
    Simple and straightforward.


    What’s wrong with ex-MPs? They are surely among the most qualified for the role.
    My problem with ex-MPs is how they are appointed, as compensation when they lose, or to convince some old duffer to stand aside in their seat to get in some new blood. Being appointed right after not being an MP also means they are still immersed in the day to day political psychodrama of the Commons, and therefore not in the right frame of mind for the more scrutiny minded focus of the Lords. You will get some decent ones, but you will also get a bunch of the most useless political lapdogs that exist.

    That's why I favour a delay before they can go to the Lords of 2 parliaments/10 years - so that they have demonstrated a) additional achievements/skills beyond merely being an MP, and b) gain a level of seperation and perspective on politics because they have been away from it for a little while.
    Seems pointlessly complicated. No-one else getting elevated to the Lords is judged on their additional achievements, level of separation or perspective.

    The obvious approach is to do what nearly every other democracy does and have elections. If you’re going to appoint, then tinkering around with rules like this is make-work.
    Which is a fair argument to make, and one reason many support an elected chamber.

    But I disagree tinkering with such rules is make work, I would argue it is improving what is there, and that is worth doing even if you prefer to go fully elected. Other people are getting judged on their additional achievements, separation, and perspective, by the very fact that they are not politicians that is the sole things they are getting judged on - excellence in their fields, good works, etc. They are being judged, ostensibly, on what they have to offer the legislature.

    What do ex-MPs offer the legislature that anyone else does not offer better? We have the Commons to offer the openly political perspective. Most MPs are no good at scrutinising or drafting legislation, as it is not something working in the Commons incentivizes, and those who get appointed to the Lords are more likely to be loyal footsoldiers than potentially troublemaking legislation drafters.

    I think it would remove a corrupting element of our politics wherein PMs can buy out some of their MPs or reward cronies by giving them a title and job for life.

    We can improve the Lords without going fully elected or abolishing, if that is a step too far for many people.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,330
    Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    AnneJGP said:

    8

    A vote-winning policy from Reform:

    https://x.com/rupertlowe10/status/1870156993463247262

    Look at these threats from the BBC mafia - expect the thugs on Christmas Day!

    When we win in 2029, the licence fee is gone on day one.


    image

    There’s actually a really unpleasant tone to that letter. Not one which a quasi governmental agency should be adopting
    The licence fee demand letters are one of the best arguments in favour of abolishing the licence fee. They're vile.
    I have a long history of not having a television, so a long history of getting these threatening letters. Recently I heard of a new one I haven't seen personally. Apparently they start legal proceedings and if you don't reply to their letter (eg you've just recycled it unopened) you can be found guilty in absentia. So you have to pay the fine even if you genuinely don't need a license.

    Good evening, everybody.
    If you can be tried and convicted without being ever told you are told you are on trial then this is not a country of law and justice
    That's normal with civil court cases, isn't it? You're called to court, you don't defend yourself ... you lose. But that isn't 'conviction'.

    It's only criminal if you don't pay up, I believe. Then you do get convicted.
    Which is fine if you know and don't turn up. The implication was they weren't told of a court summons
    Not the implication of AnneJGP's post: just that if it comes and you ignore it ... The court summons will be valid if properly registered by the postman etc.

    It's an extremely annoying system. I had lots of letters to deal with as the executor of an elderly relative whose house clearance and sale got held up. Even when I'd told them the house was empty I kept getting the letters. I had to write another formal statement.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Nearly finished a week of doing my taxes. Just a couple of hours needed now, after Christmas

    What gets me REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY QUITE RESENTFUL is the fact that: if I am a day late filing my returns, I get INSTANTLY fined. But HMRC, all working from home, are now taking A YEAR to process Tax Exemption forms, despite multiple calls, and feeble promises, thereby costing me serious money

    Utter state of this country

    I'm not joking. A YEAR. AT LEAST

    To process one form
    Bureacracies tend to be more concerned with adherence to their own rules by others than their own compliance with standards, rules, or the law.
    It's making me quite irritable. I spoke to my Knapping Foreign Tax Accountant today, and she said the only tax authority in the world that is as fucked up as the UK's is....Germany's

    And it just so happens that my much-needed tax form is for exemption from tax by.... Germany

    She said "the whole thing could take easily two years, or more"

    I've already waited one year for the UK - AND THEY STILL HAVEN'T DELIVERED - and even when I get the form, perhaps when I am dead, I have to wait at least another year for the fucking krauts to be as shite as the British

    It is emblematic of the two sick men of Europe. Germany and the UK
    We sent a form to reclaim some German VAT (MwSt) (Well our German accountants did) a few weeks back. I reckon it'll be at least a couple of years we're out of pocket (If we're lucky) on it
    Fucking maddening. I reckon HMRC's pitiful chaos - along with that of Germany's - is costing me thousands. Maybe tens of thousands if for some reason I keel over in the interim

    WTF am I meant to do? My government no longer serves its purpose, it cannot run an efficient state. And yet when I vote for the other lot, they are just as bad, indeed significantly worse

    For this reason alone I will vote Reform, to terrify the shit out of ALL the Establishment. I want them frightened for their jobs and I want half of them sacked
    still waiting for a refund from HMRC from April - all it says is "pending" -apparently referred to a special department despite them accepting evidence of the pension contributions that caused the refund. Can you get to talk to that department -nah of course not - the only conversation you will have (after about 30 minutes of infuriating nannying messages about finding out online any query ) is with yourself saying "Fing hell" when it then cuts you off
    They're all at home. When I call them I can literally hear their fucking pets and kids kicking off, and then they say "Oh I can't find the file, let me get back to you in a few days"

    Well maybe you can't find it because you are sitting on your obese butt in your fucking house in Newent, you pathetic lazy bint

    I have honestly had HMRC twats say to me, "We understand we have failed you, we are now expediting your case"

    EXPEDITING

    And then - nothing. She goes and has another biscuit. If I ran my life like this I'd be out of work in weeks

    It is utterly pathetic. Get them back in the office and halve their pay with the threat of instant dismissal and replacement by a keen, eager, articulate robot
    I've always found them quite good. Maybe I'm just lucky.
    This is a fairly recent evolution - during and post pandemic. HMRC were reasonably efficient before. But ever since, Jeez

    It was forgivable, perhaps, in 2022, in 2024? No. FFS. It is clearly a drag on the economy

    I wonder when you last filed a significent self assessment return, my guess is a while, and maybe never a return with an element of foreign income, which seems to be a particular deficiency
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    For balance, I should say this CAN be fixed

    The UKPO - the passport office - was fricking terrible for a while. Now they are super efficient. I've heard this from multiple sources, and experienced it myself. Personal phone calls the next day, and results within a week

    Whatever happened at the UKPO, apply it to the HMRC
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,857
    AnneJGP said:

    8

    A vote-winning policy from Reform:

    https://x.com/rupertlowe10/status/1870156993463247262

    Look at these threats from the BBC mafia - expect the thugs on Christmas Day!

    When we win in 2029, the licence fee is gone on day one.


    image

    There’s actually a really unpleasant tone to that letter. Not one which a quasi governmental agency should be adopting
    The licence fee demand letters are one of the best arguments in favour of abolishing the licence fee. They're vile.
    I have a long history of not having a television, so a long history of getting these threatening letters. Recently I heard of a new one I haven't seen personally. Apparently they start legal proceedings and if you don't reply to their letter (eg you've just recycled it unopened) you can be found guilty in absentia. So you have to pay the fine even if you genuinely don't need a license.

    Good evening, everybody.
    I also have no time at all for the harrassing TV licence protection racket, it is a total scandal, as is the confused law about who needs a TV licence, but there is a misjudgment here.

    A civil society depends upon being able to deem that receiving a letter according to a statutory and lawful procedure means you are on notice of its contents. Eg a Notice of Intended Prosecution for motoring offences. It's not enough to argue that you throw letters away unopened and therefore you don't know what is going on.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,268

    The hysterical response from many to Musk's AfD tweet couldn't have had worse timing.

    'Hysterical' ?

    Not really. Perhaps we should actually wait and see what's happened, and by who.

    Playing political games with this sort of event is really shitty.
    Yes it was fairly hysterical. 'Serious' people were saying it was illegal for him to state his opinion and that he should be sanctioned by the EU.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,990
    algarkirk said:

    AnneJGP said:

    8

    A vote-winning policy from Reform:

    https://x.com/rupertlowe10/status/1870156993463247262

    Look at these threats from the BBC mafia - expect the thugs on Christmas Day!

    When we win in 2029, the licence fee is gone on day one.


    image

    There’s actually a really unpleasant tone to that letter. Not one which a quasi governmental agency should be adopting
    The licence fee demand letters are one of the best arguments in favour of abolishing the licence fee. They're vile.
    I have a long history of not having a television, so a long history of getting these threatening letters. Recently I heard of a new one I haven't seen personally. Apparently they start legal proceedings and if you don't reply to their letter (eg you've just recycled it unopened) you can be found guilty in absentia. So you have to pay the fine even if you genuinely don't need a license.

    Good evening, everybody.
    I also have no time at all for the harrassing TV licence protection racket, it is a total scandal, as is the confused law about who needs a TV licence, but there is a misjudgment here.

    A civil society depends upon being able to deem that receiving a letter according to a statutory and lawful procedure means you are on notice of its contents. Eg a Notice of Intended Prosecution for motoring offences. It's not enough to argue that you throw letters away unopened and therefore you don't know what is going on.
    I would argue given the amount of post that I am told I have been sent and never received that something like a notice of court proceedings needs more than just a "Well we sent it"...should require a signature of receipt too
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,091
    Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    AnneJGP said:

    8

    A vote-winning policy from Reform:

    https://x.com/rupertlowe10/status/1870156993463247262

    Look at these threats from the BBC mafia - expect the thugs on Christmas Day!

    When we win in 2029, the licence fee is gone on day one.


    image

    There’s actually a really unpleasant tone to that letter. Not one which a quasi governmental agency should be adopting
    The licence fee demand letters are one of the best arguments in favour of abolishing the licence fee. They're vile.
    I have a long history of not having a television, so a long history of getting these threatening letters. Recently I heard of a new one I haven't seen personally. Apparently they start legal proceedings and if you don't reply to their letter (eg you've just recycled it unopened) you can be found guilty in absentia. So you have to pay the fine even if you genuinely don't need a license.

    Good evening, everybody.
    If you can be tried and convicted without being ever told you are told you are on trial then this is not a country of law and justice
    That's normal with civil court cases, isn't it? You're called to court, you don't defend yourself ... you lose. But that isn't 'conviction'.

    It's only criminal if you don't pay up, I believe. Then you do get convicted.
    Which is fine if you know and don't turn up. The implication was they weren't told of a court summons


    That's the point. They tell you in what you believe is junk mail, so you chuck it away unopened.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    algarkirk said:

    AnneJGP said:

    8

    A vote-winning policy from Reform:

    https://x.com/rupertlowe10/status/1870156993463247262

    Look at these threats from the BBC mafia - expect the thugs on Christmas Day!

    When we win in 2029, the licence fee is gone on day one.


    image

    There’s actually a really unpleasant tone to that letter. Not one which a quasi governmental agency should be adopting
    The licence fee demand letters are one of the best arguments in favour of abolishing the licence fee. They're vile.
    I have a long history of not having a television, so a long history of getting these threatening letters. Recently I heard of a new one I haven't seen personally. Apparently they start legal proceedings and if you don't reply to their letter (eg you've just recycled it unopened) you can be found guilty in absentia. So you have to pay the fine even if you genuinely don't need a license.

    Good evening, everybody.
    I also have no time at all for the harrassing TV licence protection racket, it is a total scandal, as is the confused law about who needs a TV licence, but there is a misjudgment here.

    A civil society depends upon being able to deem that receiving a letter according to a statutory and lawful procedure means you are on notice of its contents. Eg a Notice of Intended Prosecution for motoring offences. It's not enough to argue that you throw letters away unopened and therefore you don't know what is going on.
    Have you not noticed how shit the Royal Mail is now? I reckon 10% of my promised letter and parcels, if sent by Royal Mail, do not make it
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,433

    The hysterical response from many to Musk's AfD tweet couldn't have had worse timing.

    'Hysterical' ?

    Not really. Perhaps we should actually wait and see what's happened, and by who.

    Playing political games with this sort of event is really shitty.
    Yes it was fairly hysterical. 'Serious' people were saying it was illegal for him to state his opinion and that he should be sanctioned by the EU.
    Why don't you think Musk is a danger to democracy, in the USA and abroad?
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,942
    Leon said:

    BBC report:

    “A car has crashed into a crowd at a Christmas market in east Germany, local media report.

    “A least one person has been killed and several injured in the incident in Magdeburg, according to German public broadcaster MDR.”

    Watch the video. At your moral peril

    If only one person has died it is a genuine Christmas miracle; I fear that has not happened
    A cursory glance at "the video" shows it has already been sped up to make it look more dramatic.

    Given there have been previous similar incidents across Europe, I wouldn't be so sure this is footage from this particular event.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,857
    Pagan2 said:

    algarkirk said:

    AnneJGP said:

    8

    A vote-winning policy from Reform:

    https://x.com/rupertlowe10/status/1870156993463247262

    Look at these threats from the BBC mafia - expect the thugs on Christmas Day!

    When we win in 2029, the licence fee is gone on day one.


    image

    There’s actually a really unpleasant tone to that letter. Not one which a quasi governmental agency should be adopting
    The licence fee demand letters are one of the best arguments in favour of abolishing the licence fee. They're vile.
    I have a long history of not having a television, so a long history of getting these threatening letters. Recently I heard of a new one I haven't seen personally. Apparently they start legal proceedings and if you don't reply to their letter (eg you've just recycled it unopened) you can be found guilty in absentia. So you have to pay the fine even if you genuinely don't need a license.

    Good evening, everybody.
    I also have no time at all for the harrassing TV licence protection racket, it is a total scandal, as is the confused law about who needs a TV licence, but there is a misjudgment here.

    A civil society depends upon being able to deem that receiving a letter according to a statutory and lawful procedure means you are on notice of its contents. Eg a Notice of Intended Prosecution for motoring offences. It's not enough to argue that you throw letters away unopened and therefore you don't know what is going on.
    I would argue given the amount of post that I am told I have been sent and never received that something like a notice of court proceedings needs more than just a "Well we sent it"...should require a signature of receipt too
    Agree in part. Though of course this turns the system into one where the evasive have the upper hand. Proof of delivery should be sufficient.
  • Leon said:

    For balance, I should say this CAN be fixed

    The UKPO - the passport office - was fricking terrible for a while. Now they are super efficient. I've heard this from multiple sources, and experienced it myself. Personal phone calls the next day, and results within a week

    Whatever happened at the UKPO, apply it to the HMRC

    Yep, earlier this year it was just 8 days from taking my picture at the printing shop to receiving my new passport in the post.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    BBC report:

    “A car has crashed into a crowd at a Christmas market in east Germany, local media report.

    “A least one person has been killed and several injured in the incident in Magdeburg, according to German public broadcaster MDR.”

    Watch the video. At your moral peril

    If only one person has died it is a genuine Christmas miracle; I fear that has not happened
    A cursory glance at "the video" shows it has already been sped up to make it look more dramatic.

    Given there have been previous similar incidents across Europe, I wouldn't be so sure this is footage from this particular event.
    What are you talking about? Are you claming this event is "faked"??
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,990
    algarkirk said:

    Pagan2 said:

    algarkirk said:

    AnneJGP said:

    8

    A vote-winning policy from Reform:

    https://x.com/rupertlowe10/status/1870156993463247262

    Look at these threats from the BBC mafia - expect the thugs on Christmas Day!

    When we win in 2029, the licence fee is gone on day one.


    image

    There’s actually a really unpleasant tone to that letter. Not one which a quasi governmental agency should be adopting
    The licence fee demand letters are one of the best arguments in favour of abolishing the licence fee. They're vile.
    I have a long history of not having a television, so a long history of getting these threatening letters. Recently I heard of a new one I haven't seen personally. Apparently they start legal proceedings and if you don't reply to their letter (eg you've just recycled it unopened) you can be found guilty in absentia. So you have to pay the fine even if you genuinely don't need a license.

    Good evening, everybody.
    I also have no time at all for the harrassing TV licence protection racket, it is a total scandal, as is the confused law about who needs a TV licence, but there is a misjudgment here.

    A civil society depends upon being able to deem that receiving a letter according to a statutory and lawful procedure means you are on notice of its contents. Eg a Notice of Intended Prosecution for motoring offences. It's not enough to argue that you throw letters away unopened and therefore you don't know what is going on.
    I would argue given the amount of post that I am told I have been sent and never received that something like a notice of court proceedings needs more than just a "Well we sent it"...should require a signature of receipt too
    Agree in part. Though of course this turns the system into one where the evasive have the upper hand. Proof of delivery should be sufficient.
    99.99 percent of mail I get is junk mail...pod isnt enough you need signature for receipt...the evasive easy...put the letter in an amazon box
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,161
    How is not having a licence sufficient evidence to convict someone of watching TV illegally?

    That is equivalent to being convicted of driving without a licence just because you have not passed your test.
  • tlg86 said:

    Leon said:

    BBC report:

    “A car has crashed into a crowd at a Christmas market in east Germany, local media report.

    “A least one person has been killed and several injured in the incident in Magdeburg, according to German public broadcaster MDR.”

    Watch the video. At your moral peril

    If only one person has died it is a genuine Christmas miracle; I fear that has not happened
    It's awful. Surely the Germans have road blocks like we have at Arsenal:

    https://l450v.alamy.com/450v/2c70p5w/harrogate-uk-23-september-2019-temporary-hostile-vehicle-management-anti-ram-safety-barrier-2c70p5w.jpg

    Obviously, these things shouldn't be needed, but come on, they're not difficult to set up in the required spots.
    Where are the required spots? A Ford Transit that swerved into the bus queue outside a school could kill a dozen children and the odd parent. Are we to place barriers by every bus stop in the country? Look at fans converging on a football ground. Central London is full of tourists looking at Christmas decorations.

    The trouble with lone wolf nutters is that kitchen knives and cars are freely available and can kill lots of people provided the attacker does not mind being captured or killed. And people convinced God is on their side often welcome that as a shortcut to heaven.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,161

    Leon said:

    For balance, I should say this CAN be fixed

    The UKPO - the passport office - was fricking terrible for a while. Now they are super efficient. I've heard this from multiple sources, and experienced it myself. Personal phone calls the next day, and results within a week

    Whatever happened at the UKPO, apply it to the HMRC

    Yep, earlier this year it was just 8 days from taking my picture at the printing shop to receiving my new passport in the post.
    You don't need a passport to go to Ashington.
  • Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    BBC report:

    “A car has crashed into a crowd at a Christmas market in east Germany, local media report.

    “A least one person has been killed and several injured in the incident in Magdeburg, according to German public broadcaster MDR.”

    Watch the video. At your moral peril

    If only one person has died it is a genuine Christmas miracle; I fear that has not happened
    A cursory glance at "the video" shows it has already been sped up to make it look more dramatic.

    Given there have been previous similar incidents across Europe, I wouldn't be so sure this is footage from this particular event.
    I have seen the video and the car speed is horrific but what makes you think it is speeded up ?
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,125
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    What absolute lunatic has made Toby Young a peer?

    Oh, I see now.

    FPT

    Toby Young, if I rightly remember the Channel 4 docudrama When Boris Met Dave, was at Oxford with Boris and David Cameron. Accepted by mistake, Tobes got a first in PPE like Dave and was sacked from the Times like Boris. He is the quintessential Conservative.
    I know Tobes reasonably well. OOOOH the stories I could tell, but shan't

    He used to be quite a lad, but these days is much more sensible. He is doing genuinely good work with the Free Speech Union, taking on very deserving cases, he has also been cancelled at least twice, quite nastily, generally by people who hate the idea of Academies, or indeed of anyone rightwing

    For the Free Speech Union alone it's a good appointment, far more deserved that 90% of these fucking time wasters on the left. Have you seen Starmer's list? Fucksake Well done Kemi
    I agree. The fact he provokes billious attacks from our lefties says everything about his politics, nothing about his suitability. Do you folks want the Lords rammed to the rafters with centrist drones nodding through every bit of authoritarian lunacy that Sir Helmet dreams up? - Wait don't answer that.
    Look at Starmer's list, and weep for Britain


    Steamer’s new peerages:

    Professor Wendy Alexander
    Sir Brendan Barber
    Luciana Berger
    Mary Bousted
    Kevin Brennan
    Lyn Brown
    Dinah Caine
    Kay Carberry
    Margaret Curran
    Thangam Debbonaire
    Julie Elliott
    David Evans
    Sue Gray
    Theresa Griffin
    Anji Hunter
    Carwyn Jones
    Mike Katz
    Gerard Lemos
    Alison Levitt KC
    Anne Longfield
    Deborah Mattinson
    Steve McCabe
    Claude Morae
    Wendy Nichols
    Simon Pitkeathley
    Dame Anne Marie Rafferty
    Krish Raval
    Marvin Rees

    Revd Dr Russell David Rook
    Phil Wilson
    At the same time they got rid of 42 Conservative peers this is a massive stacking of parliament on party political grounds.

    And narry a whisper from the hypocrite who accused the Tories of electoral malfeasance for asking for voter ID or redistricting
    Starmer is loathsome from basically every angle. Not only grossly incompetent, terrible at politics, a greedy lying grifter, and a charmless egotist, he is also a reeking hypocrite
    Shall I put you down as a Maybe, then?
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,990
    Pagan2 said:

    algarkirk said:

    Pagan2 said:

    algarkirk said:

    AnneJGP said:

    8

    A vote-winning policy from Reform:

    https://x.com/rupertlowe10/status/1870156993463247262

    Look at these threats from the BBC mafia - expect the thugs on Christmas Day!

    When we win in 2029, the licence fee is gone on day one.


    image

    There’s actually a really unpleasant tone to that letter. Not one which a quasi governmental agency should be adopting
    The licence fee demand letters are one of the best arguments in favour of abolishing the licence fee. They're vile.
    I have a long history of not having a television, so a long history of getting these threatening letters. Recently I heard of a new one I haven't seen personally. Apparently they start legal proceedings and if you don't reply to their letter (eg you've just recycled it unopened) you can be found guilty in absentia. So you have to pay the fine even if you genuinely don't need a license.

    Good evening, everybody.
    I also have no time at all for the harrassing TV licence protection racket, it is a total scandal, as is the confused law about who needs a TV licence, but there is a misjudgment here.

    A civil society depends upon being able to deem that receiving a letter according to a statutory and lawful procedure means you are on notice of its contents. Eg a Notice of Intended Prosecution for motoring offences. It's not enough to argue that you throw letters away unopened and therefore you don't know what is going on.
    I would argue given the amount of post that I am told I have been sent and never received that something like a notice of court proceedings needs more than just a "Well we sent it"...should require a signature of receipt too
    Agree in part. Though of course this turns the system into one where the evasive have the upper hand. Proof of delivery should be sufficient.
    99.99 percent of mail I get is junk mail...pod isnt enough you need signature for receipt...the evasive easy...put the letter in an amazon box
    Plus had proof of delivery photo's for parcels where gone back to the company and said yeah but that photo isnt where I live....no idea who they delivered it to but it wasn't me....also had plenty of mail from RM which wasnt addressed to my house but a different one so no proof of delivery sorry that fails
  • kle4 said:

    1. Attendance requirements - it's not full time, but it's more than an occasional hobby
    2. No ex-MPs/political staffers/donors right away - it's not a retirement home, reward for being a loser, or to be a prize to be bought
    3. Greater time for scrutiny
    Simple and straightforward.


    What’s wrong with ex-MPs? They are surely among the most qualified for the role.
    UNELECTED HAS-BEENS, as mentioned up-thread.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496

    Leon said:

    For balance, I should say this CAN be fixed

    The UKPO - the passport office - was fricking terrible for a while. Now they are super efficient. I've heard this from multiple sources, and experienced it myself. Personal phone calls the next day, and results within a week

    Whatever happened at the UKPO, apply it to the HMRC

    Yep, earlier this year it was just 8 days from taking my picture at the printing shop to receiving my new passport in the post.
    Yes, I need two passports because job and I had a lovely Scottish lady personally call me and discuss my case and she was charming and efficient (Glasgow passport office?) and both arrived about 5 days later, and considerably earlier than the official ETA

    V pleasing. But HMRC is much more important than UKPO and fucksake they need to sort themselves out. My internatinal flint accountant is not given to swearing or hyperbole but she was cussing the UK and German tax authorities today
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,091

    AnneJGP said:

    8

    A vote-winning policy from Reform:

    https://x.com/rupertlowe10/status/1870156993463247262

    Look at these threats from the BBC mafia - expect the thugs on Christmas Day!

    When we win in 2029, the licence fee is gone on day one.


    image

    There’s actually a really unpleasant tone to that letter. Not one which a quasi governmental agency should be adopting
    The licence fee demand letters are one of the best arguments in favour of abolishing the licence fee. They're vile.
    I have a long history of not having a television, so a long history of getting these threatening letters. Recently I heard of a new one I haven't seen personally. Apparently they start legal proceedings and if you don't reply to their letter (eg you've just recycled it unopened) you can be found guilty in absentia. So you have to pay the fine even if you genuinely don't need a license.

    Good evening, everybody.
    A lot of cases are decided in the absence of the householder.

    According to Wikipedia the BBC are heavily involved in the language used in the TV licensing letters.

    According to the BBC: "Customer service is the brand experience we create for customers who are currently licensed, unknowingly unlicensed or who don't need a licence", whereas "Collections is the brand experience we create for those customers whose television licence has expired and whom TV Licensing wants to motivate to renew." Finally, the enforcement tone is used for households who have been unlicensed for a longer period.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_licensing_in_the_United_Kingdom

    I believe a previous poster was severely mistaken to put the blame on the contractors. Also worth noting that Wikipedia states that the BBC have a statutory duty to ensure that all households requiring a TV licence have one, so ultimately the responsibility is Parliament's.
    If you tell them you don't need a licence, the certificate is supposed to cover you for 2 years, but the enforcement letters start before even one year has passed.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,268

    The hysterical response from many to Musk's AfD tweet couldn't have had worse timing.

    'Hysterical' ?

    Not really. Perhaps we should actually wait and see what's happened, and by who.

    Playing political games with this sort of event is really shitty.
    Yes it was fairly hysterical. 'Serious' people were saying it was illegal for him to state his opinion and that he should be sanctioned by the EU.
    Why don't you think Musk is a danger to democracy, in the USA and abroad?
    I disagree with the framing entirely. Why is Musk a 'danger' but conducting an open borders experiment against the wishes of the people is sensible and moderate?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,161
    Off topic: What the feck have illuminated walking sticks got to do with Christmas? These monstrosities have appeared in several nearby gardens.
  • Off topic: What the feck have illuminated walking sticks got to do with Christmas? These monstrosities have appeared in several nearby gardens.

    Candy canes? American.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,030

    Off topic: What the feck have illuminated walking sticks got to do with Christmas? These monstrosities have appeared in several nearby gardens.

    Probably related to this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candy_cane
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,990
    AnneJGP said:

    AnneJGP said:

    8

    A vote-winning policy from Reform:

    https://x.com/rupertlowe10/status/1870156993463247262

    Look at these threats from the BBC mafia - expect the thugs on Christmas Day!

    When we win in 2029, the licence fee is gone on day one.


    image

    There’s actually a really unpleasant tone to that letter. Not one which a quasi governmental agency should be adopting
    The licence fee demand letters are one of the best arguments in favour of abolishing the licence fee. They're vile.
    I have a long history of not having a television, so a long history of getting these threatening letters. Recently I heard of a new one I haven't seen personally. Apparently they start legal proceedings and if you don't reply to their letter (eg you've just recycled it unopened) you can be found guilty in absentia. So you have to pay the fine even if you genuinely don't need a license.

    Good evening, everybody.
    A lot of cases are decided in the absence of the householder.

    According to Wikipedia the BBC are heavily involved in the language used in the TV licensing letters.

    According to the BBC: "Customer service is the brand experience we create for customers who are currently licensed, unknowingly unlicensed or who don't need a licence", whereas "Collections is the brand experience we create for those customers whose television licence has expired and whom TV Licensing wants to motivate to renew." Finally, the enforcement tone is used for households who have been unlicensed for a longer period.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_licensing_in_the_United_Kingdom

    I believe a previous poster was severely mistaken to put the blame on the contractors. Also worth noting that Wikipedia states that the BBC have a statutory duty to ensure that all households requiring a TV licence have one, so ultimately the responsibility is Parliament's.
    If you tell them you don't need a licence, the certificate is supposed to cover you for 2 years, but the enforcement letters start before even one year has passed.
    Also if they turn up to your door record the interaction, they have been known to both lie about what was said and fill out the form themselves that they are meant to ask you to fill out because guess what...they get commission
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,172
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Nearly finished a week of doing my taxes. Just a couple of hours needed now, after Christmas

    What gets me REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY QUITE RESENTFUL is the fact that: if I am a day late filing my returns, I get INSTANTLY fined. But HMRC, all working from home, are now taking A YEAR to process Tax Exemption forms, despite multiple calls, and feeble promises, thereby costing me serious money

    Utter state of this country

    I'm not joking. A YEAR. AT LEAST

    To process one form
    Bureacracies tend to be more concerned with adherence to their own rules by others than their own compliance with standards, rules, or the law.
    It's making me quite irritable. I spoke to my Knapping Foreign Tax Accountant today, and she said the only tax authority in the world that is as fucked up as the UK's is....Germany's

    And it just so happens that my much-needed tax form is for exemption from tax by.... Germany

    She said "the whole thing could take easily two years, or more"

    I've already waited one year for the UK - AND THEY STILL HAVEN'T DELIVERED - and even when I get the form, perhaps when I am dead, I have to wait at least another year for the fucking krauts to be as shite as the British

    It is emblematic of the two sick men of Europe. Germany and the UK
    We sent a form to reclaim some German VAT (MwSt) (Well our German accountants did) a few weeks back. I reckon it'll be at least a couple of years we're out of pocket (If we're lucky) on it
    Fucking maddening. I reckon HMRC's pitiful chaos - along with that of Germany's - is costing me thousands. Maybe tens of thousands if for some reason I keel over in the interim

    WTF am I meant to do? My government no longer serves its purpose, it cannot run an efficient state. And yet when I vote for the other lot, they are just as bad, indeed significantly worse

    For this reason alone I will vote Reform, to terrify the shit out of ALL the Establishment. I want them frightened for their jobs and I want half of them sacked
    still waiting for a refund from HMRC from April - all it says is "pending" -apparently referred to a special department despite them accepting evidence of the pension contributions that caused the refund. Can you get to talk to that department -nah of course not - the only conversation you will have (after about 30 minutes of infuriating nannying messages about finding out online any query ) is with yourself saying "Fing hell" when it then cuts you off
    They're all at home. When I call them I can literally hear their fucking pets and kids kicking off, and then they say "Oh I can't find the file, let me get back to you in a few days"

    Well maybe you can't find it because you are sitting on your obese butt in your fucking house in Newent, you pathetic lazy bint

    I have honestly had HMRC twats say to me, "We understand we have failed you, we are now expediting your case"

    EXPEDITING

    And then - nothing. She goes and has another biscuit. If I ran my life like this I'd be out of work in weeks

    It is utterly pathetic. Get them back in the office and halve their pay with the threat of instant dismissal and replacement by a keen, eager, articulate robot
    Hypothetically, if Starmer were to sort out HMRC (extremely unlikely, I know), would you vote for him … again ?
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,942
    edited December 20
    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    BBC report:

    “A car has crashed into a crowd at a Christmas market in east Germany, local media report.

    “A least one person has been killed and several injured in the incident in Magdeburg, according to German public broadcaster MDR.”

    Watch the video. At your moral peril

    If only one person has died it is a genuine Christmas miracle; I fear that has not happened
    A cursory glance at "the video" shows it has already been sped up to make it look more dramatic.

    Given there have been previous similar incidents across Europe, I wouldn't be so sure this is footage from this particular event.
    What are you talking about? Are you claming this event is "faked"??
    No. I'm just pointing out that the video doing the rounds has 1) been altered 2) might not be of the same event.

    It's a bit pathetic of you to suggest that my cautious take on this means I am some sort of terrorist attack denier. Indeed, my take relies on the fact there have been so many similar attacks in the past.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    "JUST IN - The Magdeburg terror attack perpetrator is a man from Saudi Arabia born in 1974, WELT learned from security sources."

  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,394
    edited December 20
    Wham are Christmas number one for a second time
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9dp6y31qppo

    Probably the same next year thanks to Spotify playlists!

    ETA you can see the playlist factor here (image from above page).


  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,433

    The hysterical response from many to Musk's AfD tweet couldn't have had worse timing.

    'Hysterical' ?

    Not really. Perhaps we should actually wait and see what's happened, and by who.

    Playing political games with this sort of event is really shitty.
    Yes it was fairly hysterical. 'Serious' people were saying it was illegal for him to state his opinion and that he should be sanctioned by the EU.
    Why don't you think Musk is a danger to democracy, in the USA and abroad?
    I disagree with the framing entirely. Why is Musk a 'danger' but conducting an open borders experiment against the wishes of the people is sensible and moderate?
    Why do you think the two are even remotely comparable?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    edited December 20
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Nearly finished a week of doing my taxes. Just a couple of hours needed now, after Christmas

    What gets me REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY QUITE RESENTFUL is the fact that: if I am a day late filing my returns, I get INSTANTLY fined. But HMRC, all working from home, are now taking A YEAR to process Tax Exemption forms, despite multiple calls, and feeble promises, thereby costing me serious money

    Utter state of this country

    I'm not joking. A YEAR. AT LEAST

    To process one form
    Bureacracies tend to be more concerned with adherence to their own rules by others than their own compliance with standards, rules, or the law.
    It's making me quite irritable. I spoke to my Knapping Foreign Tax Accountant today, and she said the only tax authority in the world that is as fucked up as the UK's is....Germany's

    And it just so happens that my much-needed tax form is for exemption from tax by.... Germany

    She said "the whole thing could take easily two years, or more"

    I've already waited one year for the UK - AND THEY STILL HAVEN'T DELIVERED - and even when I get the form, perhaps when I am dead, I have to wait at least another year for the fucking krauts to be as shite as the British

    It is emblematic of the two sick men of Europe. Germany and the UK
    We sent a form to reclaim some German VAT (MwSt) (Well our German accountants did) a few weeks back. I reckon it'll be at least a couple of years we're out of pocket (If we're lucky) on it
    Fucking maddening. I reckon HMRC's pitiful chaos - along with that of Germany's - is costing me thousands. Maybe tens of thousands if for some reason I keel over in the interim

    WTF am I meant to do? My government no longer serves its purpose, it cannot run an efficient state. And yet when I vote for the other lot, they are just as bad, indeed significantly worse

    For this reason alone I will vote Reform, to terrify the shit out of ALL the Establishment. I want them frightened for their jobs and I want half of them sacked
    still waiting for a refund from HMRC from April - all it says is "pending" -apparently referred to a special department despite them accepting evidence of the pension contributions that caused the refund. Can you get to talk to that department -nah of course not - the only conversation you will have (after about 30 minutes of infuriating nannying messages about finding out online any query ) is with yourself saying "Fing hell" when it then cuts you off
    They're all at home. When I call them I can literally hear their fucking pets and kids kicking off, and then they say "Oh I can't find the file, let me get back to you in a few days"

    Well maybe you can't find it because you are sitting on your obese butt in your fucking house in Newent, you pathetic lazy bint

    I have honestly had HMRC twats say to me, "We understand we have failed you, we are now expediting your case"

    EXPEDITING

    And then - nothing. She goes and has another biscuit. If I ran my life like this I'd be out of work in weeks

    It is utterly pathetic. Get them back in the office and halve their pay with the threat of instant dismissal and replacement by a keen, eager, articulate robot
    Hypothetically, if Starmer were to sort out HMRC (extremely unlikely, I know), would you vote for him … again ?
    lolno

    Edit to add: I don't blame this shit on Starmer. But I don't see him sorting out public sector inefficiency
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,942

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    BBC report:

    “A car has crashed into a crowd at a Christmas market in east Germany, local media report.

    “A least one person has been killed and several injured in the incident in Magdeburg, according to German public broadcaster MDR.”

    Watch the video. At your moral peril

    If only one person has died it is a genuine Christmas miracle; I fear that has not happened
    A cursory glance at "the video" shows it has already been sped up to make it look more dramatic.

    Given there have been previous similar incidents across Europe, I wouldn't be so sure this is footage from this particular event.
    I have seen the video and the car speed is horrific but what makes you think it is speeded up ?
    The speed at which people run away. Their cadence is way too fast.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,268
    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    BBC report:

    “A car has crashed into a crowd at a Christmas market in east Germany, local media report.

    “A least one person has been killed and several injured in the incident in Magdeburg, according to German public broadcaster MDR.”

    Watch the video. At your moral peril

    If only one person has died it is a genuine Christmas miracle; I fear that has not happened
    A cursory glance at "the video" shows it has already been sped up to make it look more dramatic.

    Given there have been previous similar incidents across Europe, I wouldn't be so sure this is footage from this particular event.
    What are you talking about? Are you claming this event is "faked"??
    No. I'm just pointing out that the video doing the rounds has 1) been altered 2) might not be of the same event.

    It's a bit pathetic of you to suggest that my cautious take on this suggests I am some sort of terrorist attack denier. Indeed, my take relies on the fact there have been so many similar attacks in the past.
    Footage recorded with a slower frame rate would appear to be sped up when played at normal speed. It wouldn't mean it's been altered.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,835
    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    AnneJGP said:

    8

    A vote-winning policy from Reform:

    https://x.com/rupertlowe10/status/1870156993463247262

    Look at these threats from the BBC mafia - expect the thugs on Christmas Day!

    When we win in 2029, the licence fee is gone on day one.


    image

    There’s actually a really unpleasant tone to that letter. Not one which a quasi governmental agency should be adopting
    The licence fee demand letters are one of the best arguments in favour of abolishing the licence fee. They're vile.
    I have a long history of not having a television, so a long history of getting these threatening letters. Recently I heard of a new one I haven't seen personally. Apparently they start legal proceedings and if you don't reply to their letter (eg you've just recycled it unopened) you can be found guilty in absentia. So you have to pay the fine even if you genuinely don't need a license.

    Good evening, everybody.
    I also have no time at all for the harrassing TV licence protection racket, it is a total scandal, as is the confused law about who needs a TV licence, but there is a misjudgment here.

    A civil society depends upon being able to deem that receiving a letter according to a statutory and lawful procedure means you are on notice of its contents. Eg a Notice of Intended Prosecution for motoring offences. It's not enough to argue that you throw letters away unopened and therefore you don't know what is going on.
    Have you not noticed how shit the Royal Mail is now? I reckon 10% of my promised letter and parcels, if sent by Royal Mail, do not make it
    If it cost the BBC's enforcers the same to send each of these letters as it costs us to send a second class letter, there would be fewer of them.

    I haven't had the Christmas one, but I get more than one a month.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    edited December 20

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    BBC report:

    “A car has crashed into a crowd at a Christmas market in east Germany, local media report.

    “A least one person has been killed and several injured in the incident in Magdeburg, according to German public broadcaster MDR.”

    Watch the video. At your moral peril

    If only one person has died it is a genuine Christmas miracle; I fear that has not happened
    A cursory glance at "the video" shows it has already been sped up to make it look more dramatic.

    Given there have been previous similar incidents across Europe, I wouldn't be so sure this is footage from this particular event.
    What are you talking about? Are you claming this event is "faked"??
    No. I'm just pointing out that the video doing the rounds has 1) been altered 2) might not be of the same event.

    It's a bit pathetic of you to suggest that my cautious take on this suggests I am some sort of terrorist attack denier. Indeed, my take relies on the fact there have been so many similar attacks in the past.
    Footage recorded with a slower frame rate would appear to be sped up when played at normal speed. It wouldn't mean it's been altered.
    I'm really not sure that real-time real-speed footage of humans being brutally smashed and pulverised by a determined driver of a murderous car would be somehow "better". Less indicting of Islamists, is that your thinking? In what way? We can see the limbs flying more slowly?

    Do provide your reasoning
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,942

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    BBC report:

    “A car has crashed into a crowd at a Christmas market in east Germany, local media report.

    “A least one person has been killed and several injured in the incident in Magdeburg, according to German public broadcaster MDR.”

    Watch the video. At your moral peril

    If only one person has died it is a genuine Christmas miracle; I fear that has not happened
    A cursory glance at "the video" shows it has already been sped up to make it look more dramatic.

    Given there have been previous similar incidents across Europe, I wouldn't be so sure this is footage from this particular event.
    What are you talking about? Are you claming this event is "faked"??
    No. I'm just pointing out that the video doing the rounds has 1) been altered 2) might not be of the same event.

    It's a bit pathetic of you to suggest that my cautious take on this suggests I am some sort of terrorist attack denier. Indeed, my take relies on the fact there have been so many similar attacks in the past.
    Footage recorded with a slower frame rate would appear to be sped up when played at normal speed. It wouldn't mean it's been altered.
    That's true - if German CCTV is recording at 15 FPS or something. But to me the reaction times and distance look too fast as well.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,376
    edited December 20

    Wham are Christmas number one for a second time
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9dp6y31qppo

    Probably the same next year thanks to Spotify playlists!

    ETA you can see the playlist factor here (image from above page).


    I remember 1994 and Mariah frolicking around in the snow... What a time for a 17 year old lad to be alive! 😂
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    BBC report:

    “A car has crashed into a crowd at a Christmas market in east Germany, local media report.

    “A least one person has been killed and several injured in the incident in Magdeburg, according to German public broadcaster MDR.”

    Watch the video. At your moral peril

    If only one person has died it is a genuine Christmas miracle; I fear that has not happened
    A cursory glance at "the video" shows it has already been sped up to make it look more dramatic.

    Given there have been previous similar incidents across Europe, I wouldn't be so sure this is footage from this particular event.
    What are you talking about? Are you claming this event is "faked"??
    No. I'm just pointing out that the video doing the rounds has 1) been altered 2) might not be of the same event.

    It's a bit pathetic of you to suggest that my cautious take on this suggests I am some sort of terrorist attack denier. Indeed, my take relies on the fact there have been so many similar attacks in the past.
    Footage recorded with a slower frame rate would appear to be sped up when played at normal speed. It wouldn't mean it's been altered.
    That's true - if German CCTV is recording at 15 FPS or something. But to me the reaction times and distance look too fast as well.
    You're diseased. Many people have died and you are focusing on the speed of the CCTV footage, and whether it is "fake"
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,268
    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    BBC report:

    “A car has crashed into a crowd at a Christmas market in east Germany, local media report.

    “A least one person has been killed and several injured in the incident in Magdeburg, according to German public broadcaster MDR.”

    Watch the video. At your moral peril

    If only one person has died it is a genuine Christmas miracle; I fear that has not happened
    A cursory glance at "the video" shows it has already been sped up to make it look more dramatic.

    Given there have been previous similar incidents across Europe, I wouldn't be so sure this is footage from this particular event.
    What are you talking about? Are you claming this event is "faked"??
    No. I'm just pointing out that the video doing the rounds has 1) been altered 2) might not be of the same event.

    It's a bit pathetic of you to suggest that my cautious take on this suggests I am some sort of terrorist attack denier. Indeed, my take relies on the fact there have been so many similar attacks in the past.
    Footage recorded with a slower frame rate would appear to be sped up when played at normal speed. It wouldn't mean it's been altered.
    That's true - if German CCTV is recording at 15 FPS or something. But to me the reaction times and distance look too fast as well.
    So you're not just commenting on the speed of the film but also think it's faked in some way? That's a bit too conspiracy-minded.
  • The Rise of the Right is the Left's Fault - Stephen Fry
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5PR5S4xhXQ

    Stephen Fry agrees with Leon (well, partly)!

    (1 hour video)

    He seems also to have got a lot older recently.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,835
    From wikipedia, in happier times:



    Apparently it's a very well-known Christmas market.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,942
    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    BBC report:

    “A car has crashed into a crowd at a Christmas market in east Germany, local media report.

    “A least one person has been killed and several injured in the incident in Magdeburg, according to German public broadcaster MDR.”

    Watch the video. At your moral peril

    If only one person has died it is a genuine Christmas miracle; I fear that has not happened
    A cursory glance at "the video" shows it has already been sped up to make it look more dramatic.

    Given there have been previous similar incidents across Europe, I wouldn't be so sure this is footage from this particular event.
    What are you talking about? Are you claming this event is "faked"??
    No. I'm just pointing out that the video doing the rounds has 1) been altered 2) might not be of the same event.

    It's a bit pathetic of you to suggest that my cautious take on this suggests I am some sort of terrorist attack denier. Indeed, my take relies on the fact there have been so many similar attacks in the past.
    Footage recorded with a slower frame rate would appear to be sped up when played at normal speed. It wouldn't mean it's been altered.
    I'm really not sure that real-time real-speed footage of humans being brutally smashed and pulverised by a determined driver of a murderous car would be somehow "better". Less indicting of Islamists, is that your thinking? In what way? We can see the limbs flying more slowly?

    Do provide your reasoning
    Chill out, WG is just pointing out the weird jerky effect you get when you take a old silent film shot at 18fps and play it at 24fps. That might be the case here too, and explain why I thought it had been sped up.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,942

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    BBC report:

    “A car has crashed into a crowd at a Christmas market in east Germany, local media report.

    “A least one person has been killed and several injured in the incident in Magdeburg, according to German public broadcaster MDR.”

    Watch the video. At your moral peril

    If only one person has died it is a genuine Christmas miracle; I fear that has not happened
    A cursory glance at "the video" shows it has already been sped up to make it look more dramatic.

    Given there have been previous similar incidents across Europe, I wouldn't be so sure this is footage from this particular event.
    What are you talking about? Are you claming this event is "faked"??
    No. I'm just pointing out that the video doing the rounds has 1) been altered 2) might not be of the same event.

    It's a bit pathetic of you to suggest that my cautious take on this suggests I am some sort of terrorist attack denier. Indeed, my take relies on the fact there have been so many similar attacks in the past.
    Footage recorded with a slower frame rate would appear to be sped up when played at normal speed. It wouldn't mean it's been altered.
    That's true - if German CCTV is recording at 15 FPS or something. But to me the reaction times and distance look too fast as well.
    So you're not just commenting on the speed of the film but also think it's faked in some way? That's a bit too conspiracy-minded.
    No, I just think it's been sped up a bit by whoever has shared it.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    BBC report:

    “A car has crashed into a crowd at a Christmas market in east Germany, local media report.

    “A least one person has been killed and several injured in the incident in Magdeburg, according to German public broadcaster MDR.”

    Watch the video. At your moral peril

    If only one person has died it is a genuine Christmas miracle; I fear that has not happened
    A cursory glance at "the video" shows it has already been sped up to make it look more dramatic.

    Given there have been previous similar incidents across Europe, I wouldn't be so sure this is footage from this particular event.
    What are you talking about? Are you claming this event is "faked"??
    No. I'm just pointing out that the video doing the rounds has 1) been altered 2) might not be of the same event.

    It's a bit pathetic of you to suggest that my cautious take on this suggests I am some sort of terrorist attack denier. Indeed, my take relies on the fact there have been so many similar attacks in the past.
    Footage recorded with a slower frame rate would appear to be sped up when played at normal speed. It wouldn't mean it's been altered.
    I'm really not sure that real-time real-speed footage of humans being brutally smashed and pulverised by a determined driver of a murderous car would be somehow "better". Less indicting of Islamists, is that your thinking? In what way? We can see the limbs flying more slowly?

    Do provide your reasoning
    Chill out, WG is just pointing out the weird jerky effect you get when you take a old silent film shot at 18fps and play it at 24fps. That might be the case here too, and explain why I thought it had been sped up.
    Your initial instincts were telling, and grotesque
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,987

    How is not having a licence sufficient evidence to convict someone of watching TV illegally?

    That is equivalent to being convicted of driving without a licence just because you have not passed your test.

    Because as I sometimes read BBC news and listen to BBC podcasts, I know that 100% of the nation are glued to every live broadcast update about Bake Off, Strictly and Masterchef.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,433
    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    BBC report:

    “A car has crashed into a crowd at a Christmas market in east Germany, local media report.

    “A least one person has been killed and several injured in the incident in Magdeburg, according to German public broadcaster MDR.”

    Watch the video. At your moral peril

    If only one person has died it is a genuine Christmas miracle; I fear that has not happened
    A cursory glance at "the video" shows it has already been sped up to make it look more dramatic.

    Given there have been previous similar incidents across Europe, I wouldn't be so sure this is footage from this particular event.
    What are you talking about? Are you claming this event is "faked"??
    No. I'm just pointing out that the video doing the rounds has 1) been altered 2) might not be of the same event.

    It's a bit pathetic of you to suggest that my cautious take on this suggests I am some sort of terrorist attack denier. Indeed, my take relies on the fact there have been so many similar attacks in the past.
    Footage recorded with a slower frame rate would appear to be sped up when played at normal speed. It wouldn't mean it's been altered.
    I'm really not sure that real-time real-speed footage of humans being brutally smashed and pulverised by a determined driver of a murderous car would be somehow "better". Less indicting of Islamists, is that your thinking? In what way? We can see the limbs flying more slowly?

    Do provide your reasoning
    Chill out, WG is just pointing out the weird jerky effect you get when you take a old silent film shot at 18fps and play it at 24fps. That might be the case here too, and explain why I thought it had been sped up.
    Your initial instincts were telling, and grotesque
    Pot. meet kettle, black.

    What sort of 'change' were you suggesting we need earlier?
  • Off topic: What the feck have illuminated walking sticks got to do with Christmas? These monstrosities have appeared in several nearby gardens.

    We have a few miniature sticks on our Christmas tree, albeit not illuminated.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,082
    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    BBC report:

    “A car has crashed into a crowd at a Christmas market in east Germany, local media report.

    “A least one person has been killed and several injured in the incident in Magdeburg, according to German public broadcaster MDR.”

    Watch the video. At your moral peril

    If only one person has died it is a genuine Christmas miracle; I fear that has not happened
    A cursory glance at "the video" shows it has already been sped up to make it look more dramatic.

    Given there have been previous similar incidents across Europe, I wouldn't be so sure this is footage from this particular event.
    What are you talking about? Are you claming this event is "faked"??
    No. I'm just pointing out that the video doing the rounds has 1) been altered 2) might not be of the same event.

    It's a bit pathetic of you to suggest that my cautious take on this suggests I am some sort of terrorist attack denier. Indeed, my take relies on the fact there have been so many similar attacks in the past.
    Footage recorded with a slower frame rate would appear to be sped up when played at normal speed. It wouldn't mean it's been altered.
    That's true - if German CCTV is recording at 15 FPS or something. But to me the reaction times and distance look too fast as well.
    So you're not just commenting on the speed of the film but also think it's faked in some way? That's a bit too conspiracy-minded.
    No, I just think it's been sped up a bit by whoever has shared it.
    CCTV, especially older systems, often has a lower frames rate than normal continuous filming. As mentioned above.

    This was to reduce storage issues.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,053

    Pagan2 said:

    kle4 said:

    1. Attendance requirements - it's not full time, but it's more than an occasional hobby
    2. No ex-MPs/political staffers/donors right away - it's not a retirement home, reward for being a loser, or to be a prize to be bought
    3. Greater time for scrutiny
    Simple and straightforward.


    What’s wrong with ex-MPs? They are surely among the most qualified for the role.
    If they are ex mp's voters have judged them unfit to govern so you put them back in a government role in the lords....thats what is wrong
    I was thinking about that when I saw Thangam Debbonaire’s (sp?) name on the list. I’d rather see her back in the Commons, but she seems to be a sensible woman and an asset to Parliament.
    An indication that Labour don’t expect to win the seat back anytime soon.
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