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When will the 32 counties reunite? – politicalbetting.com

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  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,919
    algarkirk said:

    That looks like a dog not a turkey.
    He’s just for scale. You must be new here?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,786
    Sandpit said:

    Most expensive holiday in history?

    They were supposed to be home in 10 days, now it’s going to be 10 months. The Starliner that took them up there cost $2bn to design and build but couldn’t bring them home, and the Falcon that will collect them costs around $150m - plus their food and lodgings for the ten months, living in the most expensive object that man has ever built.

    I’d sign up for that tomorrow! :D
    Far too expensive. Every year you get a six hundred million mile trip round the sun just by staying put, and it is free. Life is one long free holiday cruise.

    Merry Christmas
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,054
    HYUFD said:

    Highest GOP voteshare for their presidential candidate since the 50.7% for George W Bush in 2004 when he was re elected as President.

    Though on the positive side for Democrats they took Congress two years later in the 2006 midterms and won back the White House with Obama and Biden in 2008 with a big win over McCain and Palin
    https://www.thegreenpapers.com/G24/President-Details.phtml
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,073
    Mortimer said:

    I swear it always used to be 'Merry Christmas' in the UK - that is how I remember childhood anyway....
    Happy Winterval ?
  • Mortimer said:

    I swear it always used to be 'Merry Christmas' in the UK - that is how I remember childhood anyway....
    Happy Winterval.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,919
    Taz said:

    Happy Winterval ?
    Weird how the Americans are both way more religious than us, yet way more careful not to mention religion at Christmas time.

    Xmas is a good compromise, I think?
  • IanB2 said:

    Weird how the Americans are both way more religious than us, yet way more careful not to mention religion at Christmas time.

    Xmas is a good compromise, I think?
    It'll be Happy Birth of Trump's Best Prophet Day in a couple of years or so.
  • Mortimer said:

    I swear it always used to be 'Merry Christmas' in the UK - that is how I remember childhood anyway....
    The two were both used.

    'Happy Christmas' was a 19th century religious / behaviourist campaign that wanted people to be more abstemious and less 'merry' in an inebriated sense. To them, wishing people a Merry Christmas was tantamount to concentrating on all the wrong things.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,697

    The two were both used.

    'Happy Christmas' was a 19th century religious / behaviourist campaign that wanted people to be more abstemious and less 'merry' in an inebriated sense. To them, wishing people a Merry Christmas was tantamount to concentrating on all the wrong things.
    Merry Xmas.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,919
    A musical interlude, for those of you who don’t already have Chilean rap in your playlist, meet Ana Tijoux:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiQ7S38nKog
  • boulay said:

    Can Biden pardon Liz Cheney for any “crimes” she might have committed to prevent Trump and his winged Monkeys going after her?

    Yes. But they will just come after her with something made up she has done since the pardoning.

    America was warned this guy would destroy the rule of law and still they voted for him.

    They didn't care enough about living in a democracy nor about the rule of law to keep them.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,228
    IanB2 said:

    Free-range turkey is indeed tasty, especially if you go for a black one.

    The extra mile I’ve gone - that none of you have - is to keep my Christmas dinner entertained during the autumn months, because the farm turkeys grazed in the next field to our weekly dog agility get together, and often used to line up by the fence to enjoy the show.

    Until one week late in the year when, suddenly, they all weren’t there….




    I swear that dog always has a cheeky grin on his face.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,438

    Happy Winterval.
    If you refuse to call it Christmas for Christians who celebrate it, why wouldn't Christians call Ramadan Happy Arrival Of Spring Arab celebration?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,126
    DavidL said:

    They have a large dod of cash that they didn't really want courtesy of the EU's rules on tax avoidance but even although it is large it is also finite.
    The Irish government were running a large budget surplus because of windfall corporation tax receipts before the Apple tax judgement. No-one knows how long the corporation tax bonanza will last.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,919
    kle4 said:

    I swear that dog always has a cheeky grin on his face.
    He knows that one of those black turkeys in the background has our name on it….
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,438
    edited December 2024
    Pulpstar said:

    https://www.thegreenpapers.com/G24/President-Details.phtml
    Mr Brown got literally one vote across the entire USA
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,228
    Sandpit said:

    NASA are keeping them busy with the various experiments and daily tasks on board, and there’s a whole team of people back on Earth dedicated to their physical and mental health. There’s quite a few who have done a year on the ISS, although most of them were at least expecting to be up for a few months when they launched!

    The physical recovery will be horrible when they get back though, after that long in zero G you pretty much have to learn to stand and walk again because of muscle atrophy. No matter how much time you spend in the onboard gym, it’s not enough but better than the alternative.
    I always find it interesting in sci-fi whether the author leans into the practical difficulties of living in space on the human body, ignores it completely, or just comes up with a handwave explanation.

    Just read some Honor Harrington the other day.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,462
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5yx234gx15o

    Southport stabbing suspect Axel Rudakubana, 18, has denied murdering three young girls - Elsie Dot Stancombe, Alice da Silva Aguiar and Bebe King - in the attack at a Taylor Swift-themed dance class.

    Mr Rudakubana appeared at Liverpool Crown Court via a video link but refused to speak when asked to confirm his name and enter his pleas, so the judge Mr Justice Goose entered them on his behalf.


    An odd way to report this.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,919
    HYUFD said:

    If you refuse to call it Christmas for Christians who celebrate it, why wouldn't Christians call Ramadan Happy Arrival Of Spring Arab celebration?
    ‘Paedomas’ clearly wouldn’t be acceptable.

    Ramadan cycles through the year, just to let you know.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,027
    IanB2 said:

    A musical interlude, for those of you who don’t already have Chilean rap in your playlist, meet Ana Tijoux:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiQ7S38nKog

    She did a good album called Vengo where she first came on my radar. Not on my Christmas listening list but works well for drinks in the summer.
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,073
    IanB2 said:

    ‘Paedomas’ clearly wouldn’t be acceptable.

    Ramadan cycles through the year, just to let you know.
    Is Ramadan into active travel then ?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,919

    The two were both used.

    'Happy Christmas' was a 19th century religious / behaviourist campaign that wanted people to be more abstemious and less 'merry' in an inebriated sense. To them, wishing people a Merry Christmas was tantamount to concentrating on all the wrong things.
    How can that be, when Xmas is all about eating, drinking, watching rubbish television and forgetting that it gets dark nowadays around the same time that Leon comes round from his hangover?
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,436
    TimS said:

    The distortive effect of corporate profits on Irish GDP is pretty much the biggest example of this in the world, or at least in relatively large developed economies. There's some of that in the very high Singaporean GDP per capita too, Singapore being (alongside Switzerland) the other major hub location for IP, regional HQs and principal trading companies. It looks like the effect is also now very visible in the Danish GDP stats thanks to Novo Nordisk.

    There has probably been a similar, smaller but still present effect flattering UK GDP given the number of regional value chains that have the UK as a profit centre.
    Yes, if you look at Irish GDP/head it is about twice the UK's. Hooray. Good for them.

    But if you look at household consumption/head, it's about 10% less than the UK. And indirect indicators like electricity consumption show similar results.

    They've made progress over the last generation, but it's extremely risky - they had a much worse setback than we did in 2007-10, and nobody knows how long the US and the UK will let Ireland get away with poaching so much of its tax revenue.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,126
    HYUFD said:

    If you refuse to call it Christmas for Christians who celebrate it, why wouldn't Christians call Ramadan Happy Arrival Of Spring Arab celebration?
    Surely Ramadan is a movable lack of feast?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,054
    HYUFD said:

    Mr Brown got literally one vote across the entire USA
    Some candidates didn't even vote for themselves !
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,732
    tlg86 said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5yx234gx15o

    Southport stabbing suspect Axel Rudakubana, 18, has denied murdering three young girls - Elsie Dot Stancombe, Alice da Silva Aguiar and Bebe King - in the attack at a Taylor Swift-themed dance class.

    Mr Rudakubana appeared at Liverpool Crown Court via a video link but refused to speak when asked to confirm his name and enter his pleas, so the judge Mr Justice Goose entered them on his behalf.


    An odd way to report this.

    Not really - refusing to plead invokes a not guilty plea by default.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    edited December 2024

    Surely Ramadan is a movable lack of feast?
    I’ve been to some pretty good Ramadan feasts over the years, but waiting for them to start is excruciating!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,228

    Not really - refusing to plead invokes a not guilty plea by default.
    Didn't use to be that way of course. Ask Charles I.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,371
    Fishing said:

    Yes, if you look at Irish GDP/head it is about twice the UK's. Hooray. Good for them.

    But if you look at household consumption/head, it's about 10% less than the UK. And indirect indicators like electricity consumption show similar results.

    They've made progress over the last generation, but it's extremely risky - they had a much worse setback than we did in 2007-10, and nobody knows how long the US and the UK will let Ireland get away with poaching so much of its tax revenue.
    They may have Ratnered themselves a bit in the US by picking a fight with Israel.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,228
    Sean_F said:

    https://1drv.ms/b/s!ApCloHjkv6JKt1N8CDdSQm06S7LC?e=vFjg68

    This is my first article in an academic publication, on Mina the Elder, the Uncrowned King of Navarre. It can be downloaded in PDF format.


    I am not surprised to see that weapons procurement is impossible. Can't say that 'hodge-podge governance' has really changed either, I should think.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,794
    edited December 2024
    Happy Christmas, snowflake, is my preferred festive greeting to @BlancheLivermore and perhaps @Taz. My seasonal puns are wasted on others.
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,073
    Well done Rachel, another winner. Insane self inflicted wound. They overdid the doom and gloom.

    British manufacturers reported the biggest fall in output in late 2024 since the COVID-19 pandemic and they are even more downbeat about the start of next year, according to a survey that adds to signs of a loss of momentum in the economy.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/uk-factories-report-plunge-in-output-adding-to-economic-slowdown-signs/ar-AA1w59m2?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=996f1e3205e04f9aa9638680c8bac376&ei=16


    The Confederation of British Industry said a gauge of output over the three months to December in its monthly industrial trends survey - published on Wednesday - fell to -25, its lowest since August 2020, down from -12 in the three months to November.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,309
    kle4 said:


    I am not surprised to see that weapons procurement is impossible. Can't say that 'hodge-podge governance' has really changed either, I should think.
    The author is more sympathetic to defence procurers and contractors than they deserve, IMHO, but he does make the good point that it is a particular problem for powers that are significant, but not superpowers, like the UK or France. Superpowers can achieve economies in scale. Minor powers concentrate on one or two functions, and essentially rely upon powerful allies.

    The UK and France can make big savings by buying stuff off the shelf (mostly from the USA), but then you're always at risk of their imposing restrictions on its use or cutting off the supply.
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,073

    Happy Christmas, snowflake, is my preferred festive greeting to @BlancheLivermore and perhaps @Taz. My puns are wasted on others.

    Snowflake

    How very "Love Thy Neighbour"
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,462

    Not really - refusing to plead invokes a not guilty plea by default.
    I'd have thought it should say:

    Southport stabbing suspect Axel Rudakubana, 18, refused to submit a plea when asked...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,732
    kle4 said:


    I am not surprised to see that weapons procurement is impossible. Can't say that 'hodge-podge governance' has really changed either, I should think.
    Mind you, Henry V managed to turn up at Agincourt with 1/2 a million arrows. So ammunition procurement has been solved once (at least) in the last thousand years.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,347

    Happy Christmas, snowflake, is my preferred festive greeting to @BlancheLivermore and perhaps @Taz. My seasonal puns are wasted on others.

    When in doubt I use 'Compliments of the Season'.
    And sometimes I just use it!
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,732
    kle4 said:

    Didn't use to be that way of course. Ask Charles I.
    Progress.

    Then again…

    “… and as for Progress, it was at one time quite a nuisance, but it never progressed.”
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,794
    Cookie said:

    No, the first one is a city centre and a town centre. *

    The second one is indeed two city centres. I don't see a problem with this.
    Your position appears to be that municipal boundaries can only be in fields. It's not obvious to me that this should be the case.

    *Actually, to be pedantic, Gateshead Town Centre is about half a mile away from Baltic Quay, so not really in that pic. But that changes neither your argument nor mine. I'm happy to concede a little poetic license for the sake of a pretty picture.
    Lol. No. They are wholly functioning parts of the same city. Simple geography. That someone called them something different hundreds of years ago doesn’t change that. Are the Houses of Parliament and St Paul’s in different cities?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,462
    Yeah, this is how it should be done:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-37550060

    A man accused of killing the Labour MP Jo Cox refused to enter pleas as he appeared in court.

    Thomas Mair, 53, from Birstall, remained silent when asked to plead at the Old Bailey on four charges relating to Mrs Cox's death.

    Mrs Cox, 41, who was a married mother-of-two, was shot and stabbed in Birstall, West Yorkshire, in June.

    In the light of Mr Mair's silence, the judge ordered that not guilty pleas should be entered on his behalf.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617

    Mind you, Henry V managed to turn up at Agincourt with 1/2 a million arrows. So ammunition procurement has been solved once (at least) in the last thousand years.
    He does seem to have been very efficient. I'm in the middle of rereading N A M Rodger Safeguard of the Sea which basically argues that he was one of the few effective usewrs of sea power in English history - both in employing it but also creating and supporting it.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617
    Sean_F said:

    https://1drv.ms/b/s!ApCloHjkv6JKt1N8CDdSQm06S7LC?e=vFjg68

    This is my first article in an academic publication, on Mina the Elder, the Uncrowned King of Navarre. It can be downloaded in PDF format.

    Congrats! Downloaded already for reading later.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,228
    edited December 2024

    Lol. No. They are wholly functioning parts of the same city. Simple geography. That someone called them something different hundreds of years ago doesn’t change that. Are the Houses of Parliament and St Paul’s in different cities?
    Someone is about to say yes - City of London and City of Westminster, but that's just because of our peculiar definition of city (anything the monarch calls a city).
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,213
    Carnyx - You were right to add a milk allergy to my point about Farage and lactose intolerance. I should have said something like: "lactose intolerant or, far worse, allergic to anything in the milkshake". Small boys often would be pleased by the possibility of licking up part of a milkshake.

    (For the record: I have been lactose intolerant for decades. It's been a nuisance, but no more than that, now that I know what the problem is. Food allergies are much worse, and can even be deadly.)
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,054
    edited December 2024

    Lol. No. They are wholly functioning parts of the same city. Simple geography. That someone called them something different hundreds of years ago doesn’t change that. Are the Houses of Parliament and St Paul’s in different cities?
    Are the Houses of Parliament and St Paul’s in different cities?

    Well.. technically...

    & they are in different council areas.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617
    edited December 2024

    Progress.

    Then again…

    “… and as for Progress, it was at one time quite a nuisance, but it never progressed.”
    And Chas 1 was lucky not to get the peine forte et dure treatment - being tortured till he agreed to plead guilty [edit] or not guilty.

    Definitely two-tier justice.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peine_forte_et_dure
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,732
    Carnyx said:

    He does seem to have been very efficient. I'm in the middle of rereading N A M Rodger Safeguard of the Sea which basically argues that he was one of the few effective usewrs of sea power in English history - both in employing it but also creating and supporting it.
    Though he did follow the trend of building a mega ship that was basically useless - the Grace Dieu
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022

    Lol. No. They are wholly functioning parts of the same city. Simple geography. That someone called them something different hundreds of years ago doesn’t change that. Are the Houses of Parliament and St Paul’s in different cities?
    Yes, absolutely!
  • Hey, kids. After endless faffing about finally got the audio for a review of the F1 2024 title fights up here:
    https://undercutters.podbean.com/e/f1-2024-title-fight-undercutters-ep1/

    Hope you give it a listen. Second episode will be about the battle for sixth between RB, Haas, and Alpine.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,228

    Though he did follow the trend of building a mega ship that was basically useless - the Grace Dieu
    Well, Monarchs will monarch.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617

    Though he did follow the trend of building a mega ship that was basically useless - the Grace Dieu
    Not sure about that. Apparently at least one successful cruise. That triple skinned clinker planking might have been worth it.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617
    Sandpit said:

    Yes, absolutely!
    Complete with different police forces, no?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,309
    Carnyx said:

    Congrats! Downloaded already for reading later.
    Thank you.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,732
    Carnyx said:

    Not sure about that. Apparently at least one successful cruise. That triple skinned clinker planking might have been worth it.
    One voyage, complete with a mutiny. Even by modern procurement standards, a failure.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,673
    kle4 said:

    Someone is about to say yes - City of London and City of Westminster, but that's just because of our peculiar definition of city (anything the monarch calls a city).
    You're walrusing here! We have an agreed definition of a city. It's not wildly cnotroversial.

    "Someone is about to say this orange is different from this lemon, but that's just because of our peculiar definition of citrus fruit."

  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,512
    edited December 2024
    Hope I haven't missed the boat with this but on the Merry v Happy point. Merry Christmas works better because it's usually followed (even if just in the mind) by Happy New Year. You don't want two Merrys or two Happys (obviously) and wishing somebody a "Merry New Year" sounds all wrong. So "Merry Christmas" is what you go with.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,131
    edited December 2024
    A Turkish crime boss said to be one of Britain’s biggest drug dealers has won his human rights battle against deportation.

    The man, who was jailed for 16 years for plotting to supply heroin across the UK, won the right to remain in the UK on the basis that it would breach his human right to a family life, even though he had an extra-marital affair with a woman in Turkey who he married to “preserve her honour”.

    The 70-year-old drug dealer, who was granted anonymity, also claimed that as an Alevi Kurd he would be persecuted if he was deported to Turkey.

    However, the immigration tribunal was told that he had returned to his homeland eight times since he came to Britain without facing any persecution.

    The man’s claim to remain in the UK was backed by the UN Refugee Agency, despite the Home Office saying that he was a “danger to the community” and that his continued presence in the UK was “not conducive to the public good” because of his criminal history.

    The tribunal was told that he was believed to be the head of an organised crime gang responsible at the time for 90 per cent of the UK heroin trade.

    ...even getting a Turkish passport...

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/12/18/turkish-crime-boss-jailed-heroin-offences-allowed-to-stay/
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,298
    edited December 2024
    kinabalu said:

    Hope I haven't missed the boat with this but on the Merry v Happy point. Merry Christmas works better because it's usually followed (even if just in the mind) by Happy New Year. You don't want two Merrys or two Happys (obviously) and wishing somebody a "Merry New Year" sounds all wrong. So "Merry Christmas" is what you go with.

    Happy Christmas and Merry New Year has a nice ring to it.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022

    A Turkish crime boss said to be one of Britain’s biggest drug dealers has won his human rights battle against deportation.

    The man, who was jailed for 16 years for plotting to supply heroin across the UK, won the right to remain in the UK on the basis that it would breach his human right to a family life, even though he had an extra-marital affair with a woman in Turkey who he married to “preserve her honour”.

    The 70-year-old drug dealer, who was granted anonymity, also claimed that as an Alevi Kurd he would be persecuted if he was deported to Turkey.

    However, the immigration tribunal was told that he had returned to his homeland eight times since he came to Britain without facing any persecution.

    The man’s claim to remain in the UK was backed by the UN Refugee Agency, despite the Home Office saying that he was a “danger to the community” and that his continued presence in the UK was “not conducive to the public good” because of his criminal history.

    The tribunal was told that he was believed to be the head of an organised crime gang responsible at the time for 90 per cent of the UK heroin trade.

    ...even getting a Turkish passport...

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/12/18/turkish-crime-boss-jailed-heroin-offences-allowed-to-stay/

    LOL.

    The contrast between the European and American approach to such mattersis about to become very clear indeed.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,126
    kinabalu said:

    Hope I haven't missed the boat with this but on the Merry v Happy point. Merry Christmas works better because it's usually followed (even if just in the mind) by Happy New Year. You don't want two Merrys or two Happys (obviously) and wishing somebody a "Merry New Year" sounds all wrong. So "Merry Christmas" is what you go with.

    That is what I think George Orwell would call a miserable cliché. Try sprucing it up with something a bit different or whimsical. How about,
    Joyful No-eel
    Howly Christmas
    Merry Christmoose
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,371

    A Turkish crime boss said to be one of Britain’s biggest drug dealers has won his human rights battle against deportation.

    The man, who was jailed for 16 years for plotting to supply heroin across the UK, won the right to remain in the UK on the basis that it would breach his human right to a family life, even though he had an extra-marital affair with a woman in Turkey who he married to “preserve her honour”.

    The 70-year-old drug dealer, who was granted anonymity, also claimed that as an Alevi Kurd he would be persecuted if he was deported to Turkey.

    However, the immigration tribunal was told that he had returned to his homeland eight times since he came to Britain without facing any persecution.

    The man’s claim to remain in the UK was backed by the UN Refugee Agency, despite the Home Office saying that he was a “danger to the community” and that his continued presence in the UK was “not conducive to the public good” because of his criminal history.

    The tribunal was told that he was believed to be the head of an organised crime gang responsible at the time for 90 per cent of the UK heroin trade.

    ...even getting a Turkish passport...

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/12/18/turkish-crime-boss-jailed-heroin-offences-allowed-to-stay/

    Human rights law - ¡Afuera!
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,054
    edited December 2024

    A Turkish crime boss said to be one of Britain’s biggest drug dealers has won his human rights battle against deportation.

    The man, who was jailed for 16 years for plotting to supply heroin across the UK, won the right to remain in the UK on the basis that it would breach his human right to a family life, even though he had an extra-marital affair with a woman in Turkey who he married to “preserve her honour”.

    The 70-year-old drug dealer, who was granted anonymity, also claimed that as an Alevi Kurd he would be persecuted if he was deported to Turkey.

    However, the immigration tribunal was told that he had returned to his homeland eight times since he came to Britain without facing any persecution.

    The man’s claim to remain in the UK was backed by the UN Refugee Agency, despite the Home Office saying that he was a “danger to the community” and that his continued presence in the UK was “not conducive to the public good” because of his criminal history.

    The tribunal was told that he was believed to be the head of an organised crime gang responsible at the time for 90 per cent of the UK heroin trade.

    ...even getting a Turkish passport...

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/12/18/turkish-crime-boss-jailed-heroin-offences-allowed-to-stay/

    Brilliantly this now creates case law for the next wrong'un to stay after his sentence is up. The judiciary in this country has collectively lost it.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,270
    IanB2 said:

    A musical interlude, for those of you who don’t already have Chilean rap in your playlist, meet Ana Tijoux:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiQ7S38nKog

    I had been insufficiently exposed to Chilean rap before today. Thank you.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,512
    RobD said:

    Happy Christmas and Merry New Year has a nice ring to it.
    It doesn't, Rob, not if you think about it. The "year" wish is for the duration not just for seeing it in. So you're effectively saying to somebody you hope they are constantly 24/7 "merry" for the whole of the next 12 months.

    See the problem?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,298

    A Turkish crime boss said to be one of Britain’s biggest drug dealers has won his human rights battle against deportation.

    The man, who was jailed for 16 years for plotting to supply heroin across the UK, won the right to remain in the UK on the basis that it would breach his human right to a family life, even though he had an extra-marital affair with a woman in Turkey who he married to “preserve her honour”.

    The 70-year-old drug dealer, who was granted anonymity, also claimed that as an Alevi Kurd he would be persecuted if he was deported to Turkey.

    However, the immigration tribunal was told that he had returned to his homeland eight times since he came to Britain without facing any persecution.

    The man’s claim to remain in the UK was backed by the UN Refugee Agency, despite the Home Office saying that he was a “danger to the community” and that his continued presence in the UK was “not conducive to the public good” because of his criminal history.

    The tribunal was told that he was believed to be the head of an organised crime gang responsible at the time for 90 per cent of the UK heroin trade.

    ...even getting a Turkish passport...

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/12/18/turkish-crime-boss-jailed-heroin-offences-allowed-to-stay/

    Why can't he have a family life in Turkey?
  • eekeek Posts: 29,443
    16:10 and it’s light in Reykjavik
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,298
    kinabalu said:

    It doesn't, Rob, not if you think about it. The "year" wish is for the duration not just for seeing it in. So you're effectively saying to somebody you hope they are constantly 24/7 "merry" for the whole of the next 12 months.

    See the problem?
    I see no problem with that. ;)
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,309
    RobD said:

    Why can't he have a family life in Turkey?
    I think that some human rights lawyers and judges feel a positive glow of virtue, by endangering the public, in the cause of abstract principles.
  • F1: if you prefer words, there are many here, and about nine delightful graphs. Marvel at the graphics. Gosh, they are lovely:
    https://morrisf1.blogspot.com/2024/12/f1-2024-title-fight.html
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,726
    Given all the doom and gloom on here, I would have thought that Have an Austere Christmas and a Miserable New Year would be just the ticket.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,298

    Given all the doom and gloom on here, I would have thought that Have an Austere Christmas and a Miserable New Year would be just the ticket.

    You've just received a card from Reeves, haven't you?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,732
    Sean_F said:

    I think that some human rights lawyers and judges feel a positive glow of virtue, by endangering the public, in the cause of abstract principles.
    I met some of the people involved in Capn’ Hooks (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Hamza_al-Masri) fight against extradition. They were quite clear that they believed that all extradition and repatriation was wrong and they wanted to set precedents to stop all of it.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617

    One voyage, complete with a mutiny. Even by modern procurement standards, a failure.
    Oh, do you have a decent reference for that, please?
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,726
    RobD said:

    You've just received a card from Reeves, haven't you?
    Shucks. Found out.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,309

    I met some of the people involved in Capn’ Hooks (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Hamza_al-Masri) fight against extradition. They were quite clear that they believed that all extradition and repatriation was wrong and they wanted to set precedents to stop all of it.
    Such people are unhinged. Unfortunately, they are absurdly influential.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,732
    edited December 2024
    RobD said:

    Why can't he have a family life in Turkey?
    The French government would have had him on a plane to Turkey seven to eight seconds after finishing his sentence.

    When told they were naughty, by the courts, the government would have replied with a shrug and “Je suis desolate”. Followed by accidentally never letting him back in the country.
  • Sean_F said:

    https://1drv.ms/b/s!ApCloHjkv6JKt1N8CDdSQm06S7LC?e=vFjg68

    This is my first article in an academic publication, on Mina the Elder, the Uncrowned King of Navarre. It can be downloaded in PDF format.

    Look forward to reading this later. Rather tired/eyes going fuzzy after faffing with technical crap (and rapidly making logos) right now. Spain's got a fascinating history, and congrats on getting that published.
  • NEW THREAD

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,054
    Sean_F said:

    Such people are unhinged. Unfortunately, they are absurdly influential.
    How have they attained so much influence ? What sort of thought processes do the relevant judges go through to reach their increasingly ridiculous conclusions ?
    It's precisely the same de haut en bas mindset that excluded the 2nd round of presidential elections going ahead in Romania.
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,073

    A Turkish crime boss said to be one of Britain’s biggest drug dealers has won his human rights battle against deportation.

    The man, who was jailed for 16 years for plotting to supply heroin across the UK, won the right to remain in the UK on the basis that it would breach his human right to a family life, even though he had an extra-marital affair with a woman in Turkey who he married to “preserve her honour”.

    The 70-year-old drug dealer, who was granted anonymity, also claimed that as an Alevi Kurd he would be persecuted if he was deported to Turkey.

    However, the immigration tribunal was told that he had returned to his homeland eight times since he came to Britain without facing any persecution.

    The man’s claim to remain in the UK was backed by the UN Refugee Agency, despite the Home Office saying that he was a “danger to the community” and that his continued presence in the UK was “not conducive to the public good” because of his criminal history.

    The tribunal was told that he was believed to be the head of an organised crime gang responsible at the time for 90 per cent of the UK heroin trade.

    ...even getting a Turkish passport...

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/12/18/turkish-crime-boss-jailed-heroin-offences-allowed-to-stay/

    The man’s claim to remain in the UK was backed by the UN Refugee Agency, despite the Home Office saying that he was a “danger to the community”

    Of course it was. Fuck the community. The rights of the criminal and all that.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,309
    Pulpstar said:

    How have they attained so much influence ? What sort of thought processes do the relevant judges go through to reach their increasingly ridiculous conclusions ?
    It's precisely the same de haut en bas mindset that excluded the 2nd round of presidential elections going ahead in Romania.
    As Madame de Merteuille put it, "Like most intellectuals, he is quite stupid."

    There comes a point where a group of highly qualified people talk only to like-minded people, and come to increasingly stupid conclusions.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,794
    kle4 said:

    Someone is about to say yes - City of London and City of Westminster, but that's just because of our peculiar definition of city (anything the monarch calls a city).
    Yes, that was my trick question. Clearly there are part of one city – London. Just Newcastle & Gateshead Quaysides are one city, and Manchester and Salford are.
  • They may have Ratnered themselves a bit in the US by picking a fight with Israel.
    They'll pick a fight with anyone .... we love a good scrap now and then. Hasn't stopped Americans coming over. If you want to tour the whole of the island, they're everywhere. Had one farmer tell me about a group of guys in Stetsons coming over and offering to help a neighbouring farmer sell his farm and move to Montana. They help them move over and find a place as they are really, really keen on maintaining skills and the agricultural industry there. Perhaps I should send Clarkson the link?

    https://farmconnectmontana.org/land-link-program/
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,512

    That is what I think George Orwell would call a miserable cliché. Try sprucing it up with something a bit different or whimsical. How about,
    Joyful No-eel
    Howly Christmas
    Merry Christmoose
    Howly Christmas?

    I rather like that one. Pity I've already written all my cards.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,038
    Sean_F said:

    As Madame de Merteuille put it, "Like most intellectuals, he is quite stupid."

    There comes a point where a group of highly qualified people talk only to like-minded people, and come to increasingly stupid conclusions.
    Ah. that explains lawyers. :)
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,794
    Sandpit said:

    Yes, absolutely!
    You walked into my trap.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,732
    Sean_F said:

    Such people are unhinged. Unfortunately, they are absurdly influential.
    They are on a Moral Crusade.

    A psychiatrist friend had some interesting things to say about a prison visiting group she briefly worked with. They got very upset when she read trial transcripts instead of just believing what the prisoners said.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,038
    Sandpit said:

    LOL.

    The contrast between the European and American approach to such mattersis about to become very clear indeed.
    And you don't think, for even the minutest moment, that the 'American approach' might lead to injustices?

    Justice is a balance, as is well seen above the Old Bailey.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,371

    And you don't think, for even the minutest moment, that the 'American approach' might lead to injustices?

    Justice is a balance, as is well seen above the Old Bailey.
    It's an injustice that this person has not been deported.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,038

    It's an injustice that this person has not been deported.
    I agree, in this case.

    But to be sure: let's deport every criminal, eh? That way we can be *sure* that there are no criminals left (*). Australia should do.

    Or perhaps, just perhaps, there should be a balance? (**)

    (*) Not really...
    (**) Answering a post with a question, as you do, but unlike you, actually giving my view.,,
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,309

    It's an injustice that this person has not been deported.
    Supposedly, some British diplomat told Deng Xiao Ping, that "we believe that it is better that ten guilty men go free than that one innocent man be found guilty."

    To which the reply was, "better for whom?"
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022

    And you don't think, for even the minutest moment, that the 'American approach' might lead to injustices?

    Justice is a balance, as is well seen above the Old Bailey.
    If you’re a foreign national sentenced to imprisonment, then you should be deported when you have served your sentence. From the prison to the airport. If you wish to come back, then you appeal at your own expense from abroad.

    This isn’t controversial in 90% of the countries in the world.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,919
    So, despite (or, as a consequence of) the Daily Express having predicted a freezing white cold snap for Xmas, the forecast is now for Xmas Day to be markedly mild....
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,919
    edited December 2024
    ..
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,354

    They may have Ratnered themselves a bit in the US by picking a fight with Israel.
    Nothing to do with Ratnering.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,038
    Sandpit said:

    If you’re a foreign national sentenced to imprisonment, then you should be deported when you have served your sentence. From the prison to the airport. If you wish to come back, then you appeal at your own expense from abroad.

    This isn’t controversial in 90% of the countries in the world.
    If you also hold a British passport?
This discussion has been closed.