Braverman set to defect to Reform (no, not that one, yet) – politicalbetting.com

Luckyguy1983 said:

JosiasJessop said:

HYUFD said:

JosiasJessop said:

HYUFD said:

williamglenn said:

JD Vance on events in Syria:

https://x.com/jdvance/status/1865761239802036283

As President Trump said, this is not our fight and we should stay out of it.

Aside from that, opinions like the below make me nervous. The last time this guy was celebrating events in Syria we saw the mass slaughter of Christians and a refugee crisis that destabilized Europe.

Many of "the rebels" are a literal offshoot of ISIS. One can hope they've moderated. Time will tell.

Sensible comments from Vance. If the rebels do start attacking the few remaining Christians in Syria we and other western nations must take them in as refugees.

Lebanon must also take in refugees from Assad's Alawite community if the rebels start persecuting and slaughtering them

Whereas you would have had Assad's Alawite community (*) persecuting and slaughtering muslims.

(*) And if you actually followed this, you would realise many alawites were *against* Assad...

No I wouldn't. Assad didn't go around massacring Sunni Muslims for starters as most of Syria is Sunni Muslim and he is a Shia Alawite, he wouldn't even have lasted as long as he did had he done so

You are absolutely clueless. Totally and utterly clueless. Read some of those documents I posted yesterday to see exactly what he, and his dad, did.

In fact, you're worse than clueless.

And you are a grotesque apologist for Islamic extremism and a pompom waver for our disastrous Middle East policy over the past 18 years.

No, I am not.

I refer other readers to your various pro-Russian positions over MH17, which you spammed us with.

I'm also amused by the fact your post was liked by PB's very own Christian fundamentalist, who in some ways is indistinguishable from Muslim fundamentalists.

turbotubbs said:

Leon said:

The Big Flap continues


“Have YOU seen the mysterious #drones in the night sky over #NewJersey?

EXCLUSIVE @News12NJ video from the @OceanCounty911 shows their first captured encounter with what they believe to be one of those drones.”

https://x.com/n12tkrosnowski/status/1865597595428479460?s=46

It’s not “one kid with a toy” and then a load of contagion. My best guess is still Russia or China

That looks suspiciously like a plane.

How come the New Jersey authorities can’t just call Air Traffic Control and say ‘guys, is this a plane?’

THAT is one of the mysteries here. If all these drones are misidentified planes, toys, balloons, surely it takes one person with an IQ north of 120 to prove all this??

Leon said:

turbotubbs said:

Leon said:

The Big Flap continues


“Have YOU seen the mysterious #drones in the night sky over #NewJersey?

EXCLUSIVE @News12NJ video from the @OceanCounty911 shows their first captured encounter with what they believe to be one of those drones.”

https://x.com/n12tkrosnowski/status/1865597595428479460?s=46

It’s not “one kid with a toy” and then a load of contagion. My best guess is still Russia or China

That looks suspiciously like a plane.

How come the New Jersey authorities can’t just call Air Traffic Control and say ‘guys, is this a plane?’

THAT is one of the mysteries here. If all these drones are misidentified planes, toys, balloons, surely it takes one person with an IQ north of 120 to prove all this??

Well this is America.

...

JosiasJessop said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

JosiasJessop said:

HYUFD said:

JosiasJessop said:

HYUFD said:

williamglenn said:

JD Vance on events in Syria:

https://x.com/jdvance/status/1865761239802036283

As President Trump said, this is not our fight and we should stay out of it.

Aside from that, opinions like the below make me nervous. The last time this guy was celebrating events in Syria we saw the mass slaughter of Christians and a refugee crisis that destabilized Europe.

Many of "the rebels" are a literal offshoot of ISIS. One can hope they've moderated. Time will tell.

Sensible comments from Vance. If the rebels do start attacking the few remaining Christians in Syria we and other western nations must take them in as refugees.

Lebanon must also take in refugees from Assad's Alawite community if the rebels start persecuting and slaughtering them

Whereas you would have had Assad's Alawite community (*) persecuting and slaughtering muslims.

(*) And if you actually followed this, you would realise many alawites were *against* Assad...

No I wouldn't. Assad didn't go around massacring Sunni Muslims for starters as most of Syria is Sunni Muslim and he is a Shia Alawite, he wouldn't even have lasted as long as he did had he done so

You are absolutely clueless. Totally and utterly clueless. Read some of those documents I posted yesterday to see exactly what he, and his dad, did.

In fact, you're worse than clueless.

And you are a grotesque apologist for Islamic extremism and a pompom waver for our disastrous Middle East policy over the past 18 years.

No, I am not.

I refer other readers to your various pro-Russian positions over MH17, which you spammed us with.

I'm also amused by the fact your post was liked by PB's very own Christian fundamentalist, who in some ways is indistinguishable from Muslim fundamentalists.

I think your own fairly repugnant posts make my argument for me.

The government wants to introduce a digital ID that lives on your phone rather than a physical card. You can then verify your identity that way.

Seems eminently sensible to me.

Luckyguy1983 said:

...

JosiasJessop said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

JosiasJessop said:

HYUFD said:

JosiasJessop said:

HYUFD said:

williamglenn said:

JD Vance on events in Syria:

https://x.com/jdvance/status/1865761239802036283

As President Trump said, this is not our fight and we should stay out of it.

Aside from that, opinions like the below make me nervous. The last time this guy was celebrating events in Syria we saw the mass slaughter of Christians and a refugee crisis that destabilized Europe.

Many of "the rebels" are a literal offshoot of ISIS. One can hope they've moderated. Time will tell.

Sensible comments from Vance. If the rebels do start attacking the few remaining Christians in Syria we and other western nations must take them in as refugees.

Lebanon must also take in refugees from Assad's Alawite community if the rebels start persecuting and slaughtering them

Whereas you would have had Assad's Alawite community (*) persecuting and slaughtering muslims.

(*) And if you actually followed this, you would realise many alawites were *against* Assad...

No I wouldn't. Assad didn't go around massacring Sunni Muslims for starters as most of Syria is Sunni Muslim and he is a Shia Alawite, he wouldn't even have lasted as long as he did had he done so

You are absolutely clueless. Totally and utterly clueless. Read some of those documents I posted yesterday to see exactly what he, and his dad, did.

In fact, you're worse than clueless.

And you are a grotesque apologist for Islamic extremism and a pompom waver for our disastrous Middle East policy over the past 18 years.

No, I am not.

I refer other readers to your various pro-Russian positions over MH17, which you spammed us with.

I'm also amused by the fact your post was liked by PB's very own Christian fundamentalist, who in some ways is indistinguishable from Muslim fundamentalists.

I think your own fairly repugnant posts make my argument for me.

Please explain why my posts are 'fairly repugnant', whereas yours shilling for Putin over MH17 or 'Ukrainian biolabs' are perfectly fine.

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

The government wants to introduce a digital ID that lives on your phone rather than a physical card. You can then verify your identity that way.

Seems eminently sensible to me.

I wouldn't trust them to develop such a thing that worked, was safe, and didn't cost 5 times more than whatever they would claim it will cost.

That's leaving aside the pro or anti arguments over the principle.

rcs1000 said:

viewcode said:

Some of you may be aware of the problems of autocratic states as described in the works of Anne Applebaum. One of the aspects of those problems is the social contract between autocrat and the people: the autocrat provides security and safety, the people give up the desire to get involved in politics. The Simon Whistler channel "Warfronts" has done a brief explainer

The Social Contract: How Autocrats Stay in Power: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdmZhVmP2z0 (27 mins)

British people find it difficult to understand that Putin does have the support of the Russian people, and he genuinely does. But it's not expressed via the democratic process, and he may fall if he cannot maintain his side of the deal.

There's also the fact that if you stand up to the dictator you mysteriously die. Or, if you're lucky, get shipped off to a labor camp in Siberia. And then die.

It kinda discourages people from sticking their neck out, unless they are really, really unhappy.

Of all the ways of organising society it is, after democracy, the next least worst.

I think in the democratic west we sort of forget that there aren't a lot of options somewhere between the miraculous construction of a multi party democracy 'strong man' as we have, with its amazing power to replace the 'strong man' nicely, and the old fashioned strong man of powerful autocracy, open to every possibility except opposition to itself.

Sean_F said:

algarkirk said:

viewcode said:

Some of you may be aware of the problems of autocratic states as described in the works of Anne Applebaum. One of the aspects of those problems is the social contract between autocrat and the people: the autocrat provides security and safety, the people give up the desire to get involved in politics. The Simon Whistler channel "Warfronts" has done a brief explainer

The Social Contract: How Autocrats Stay in Power: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdmZhVmP2z0 (27 mins)

British people find it difficult to understand that Putin does have the support of the Russian people, and he genuinely does. But it's not expressed via the democratic process, and he may fall if he cannot maintain his side of the deal.

Much of this is the great political philosopher Thomas Hobbes, who correctly discerned that the 'strong man' theory of politics is sound. Most people will and should support the one who will grant them basic protection by being the strong man/leader for them, even though he is horrible to those who oppose him. Within that limit the 'strong man' can give lots of sub freedoms - of religion, thought, assembly, way of life. Assad and Saddam were classic instances of these.

The genius of western democracy is that it created a 'strong man' theory and system where the ruling state itself could be challenged by a peaceful process called voting - as we saw on 4th July in the UK.

The problem is that it’s a one or two generation form of government.

The strong man is succeeded by incompetents, or his successor is.

Or the initial strong man decides to concentrate more on personal enrichment than on his people's welfare.

People love a strong man, so long as that strong man agrees with all their views. When it turns out that the strong man has some very different views, it turns out there is no painless mechanism for replacement.

Which why democracy is worst form of government, except for all the others that have been tried.

...

HYUFD said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

HYUFD said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

HYUFD said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

malcolmg said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

rottenborough said:

This. 100x this.

Either Reeves needs to back down/ameliorate or Starmer needs to sack her before she ends their 2028-29 chances with four years to go.

It's a bloody disaster as PBers like me said on the day it was announced.


" ‘It’s only a matter of time until we get some terrible case,’ a minister confided to me. ‘It happens every year, some tragedy where a pensioner dies alone. But this year it will be blamed on us – for winter fuel allowance cuts. And then we’re going to be in the midst of a full-blown crisis.’ "

"But they cannot align the relatively small saving with the potentially catastrophic political cost of being seen to target some of the most vulnerable in society in wintertime."

"I’ve spoken to Cabinet ministers, junior ministers, MPs, councillors, party officials, activists, trade union officials. I have yet to find a single person within Labour’s ranks who genuinely believes in the winter fuel benefit cut. Or thinks it is politically sustainable."

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-14168519/DAN-HODGES-Pensioners-die-freezing-minister-confided-winter-fuel-axe-Labours-ranks-tell-fear-worse-come.html

Cut the self-entitled spoilt crap.

Featherbedded spoilt people expecting others to give them money they haven't earned and don't need deserve zero sympathy. None whatsoever.

Pensioners are not the "most vulnerable" in society, that is pig ignorant. 75% own their own home without a mortgage and they aren't even the most vulnerable to the cold, that is infants under 1 year of age who are far more vulnerable than pensioners but have never had such entitlement.

Welfare should be a safety net for those who need it.

You are not even at the level of a halfwit. Plenty of pensioners are poor you absolute unfeeling twat , an excuse for a human being.

Plenty of people of all ages are poor - why do only pensioners matter to you?

If poor people need welfare, then it should be targeted at those who need it, not those who don't.

And the most in need are poor babies, not pensioners. Contrary to received myths on here, pensioners have never been the most vulnerable to the cold.

Compared to the average Briton pensioners are more vulnerable to the cold, what a stupid post

Why are you comparing to "average"?

Compared to infants under 1 year of age pensioners are LESS vulnerable to the cold.

So give me one damned reason why the hell should we give pensioners universal payments for winter fuel while their more vulnerable (great-)grandchildren are left to freeze in their cots without it.

For starters as their parents are likely to be on higher incomes as still earning a wage while many pensioners will be on little more than state pensions

Shows how ignorant you are.

Most pensioners are on both more than state pension and not paying either rent or mortgage.

Almost every parent of an infant is paying either rent or a mortgage and most are not on high incomes.

If you want to support the needy universally then infants are more needy than pensioners, universally. If you want it to be means tested, then support means testing. Supporting universality to the less needy is just preposterous.

A substantial proportion are not.

State pension is £9k a year, large numbers of state pensioners renting privately or in council homes while even minimum wage is £20k a year now full time and WFA been cut even for pensioner incomes thousands less than that

To put that £9k state pension into a different context, the threshold for getting free school meals is a household income of £7400 per annum, so £1600 per year below the state pension level, and a quarter of school age children are on free school meals.

A quarter also being the proportion of state pensioners who don't own their own home without a mortgage.

I don't have a figure available to hand as to what proportion of households with infants are on an income of less than the state pension, but I see no reason why it will be substantially different.

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

kle4 said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

The government wants to introduce a digital ID that lives on your phone rather than a physical card. You can then verify your identity that way.

Seems eminently sensible to me.

I wouldn't trust them to develop such a thing that worked, was safe, and didn't cost 5 times more than whatever they would claim it will cost.

That's leaving aside the pro or anti arguments over the principle.

Gov.uk was one of the few successes of the Tory period. Why can’t this also be a success?

Statistical chance. You said it: "one of the few successes".

And actually, gov.uk wasn't particularly, for us. It took *years* before Mrs C could actually log on and deal with her tax. Because the system thought she didn't exist. And HMRC wouldn't let us do a paper form, because she had to log on and ask for one ...

We *think* the problem might have been an apostrophe in the street address. That's pretty basic.

Edit: there are also other issues with it, such as the poor way in which the tax pages are laid out for one's personal tax, and the confusing statements therein. And anyone who has had to try and deail with additional payments to their pensions ... Though that is perhaps more to do with the customer department, that is still all part of the government, so that's not really an excuse.

algarkirk said:

rcs1000 said:

viewcode said:

Some of you may be aware of the problems of autocratic states as described in the works of Anne Applebaum. One of the aspects of those problems is the social contract between autocrat and the people: the autocrat provides security and safety, the people give up the desire to get involved in politics. The Simon Whistler channel "Warfronts" has done a brief explainer

The Social Contract: How Autocrats Stay in Power: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdmZhVmP2z0 (27 mins)

British people find it difficult to understand that Putin does have the support of the Russian people, and he genuinely does. But it's not expressed via the democratic process, and he may fall if he cannot maintain his side of the deal.

There's also the fact that if you stand up to the dictator you mysteriously die. Or, if you're lucky, get shipped off to a labor camp in Siberia. And then die.

It kinda discourages people from sticking their neck out, unless they are really, really unhappy.

Of all the ways of organising society it is, after democracy, the next least worst.

I think in the democratic west we sort of forget that there aren't a lot of options somewhere between the miraculous construction of a multi party democracy 'strong man' as we have, with its amazing power to replace the 'strong man' nicely, and the old fashioned strong man of powerful autocracy, open to every possibility except opposition to itself.

Strong government is probably better than utterly chaotic weak government, which is often the alternative open to people unfortunately, so it's not a surprise when people would go for it.

The generational issue mentioned is an interesting one, there's probably studies of how long such regimes in general can maintain the beneficial side of the equation before corruption/abuse, and reset/collapse. Take a place like Oman, which seems to have benefited very well under Sultan Qaboos for decades, now gone but will his style continue on this generation? The next?

FF43 said:

rottenborough said:

Leon said:

Shecorns88 said:

The more narcissistic basically evil, I the case of Braverman, nut jobs join Reform, better for Labour.

Reform go further and further to the Rabid Right and the more Badenochs Tories and her disgraced Right flank and Reform tear strips off each other trying to be worker than woke and more anti anti establishment.

Keir meanwhile gets his head down and grafts grafts grafts boringly but relentless steady slow improvement.

Turning the NHS around, increasing House Building, reducing net migration, clearing the Tory Asylum backlogs.

Interest rates slip quietly down, mortgage base rate slips in the 3.somethings, god forbid a few tax reductions in the form of slowly increasing tax thresholds, wealth and windfall taxes on the greedy for the needy.

The massive UK tanker, slowly turned around.

By 2028 what is the solution, rabid Right or steady solid dependable Left...

Nah, Labour are fucked. Look how they are already cratering in Scotland. Starmer hasn’t the charisma, wit or ideas to get anything done. One term

He might get loads done but it wont be enough. The message from Biden loss is loud and clear: being able to point at a long list of technocratic things you've done and how good the GDP is, or how high the % of widgets produced this term is not worth gnats piss in the new political era.

Thing is, if Labour goes, it means we're done with liberal democracy. Conservatives won't be able to convince anyone, actually we're fine now. So we end up with Reform. And if anyone thinks that's a recipe for sorting things out, I would have a bridge to sell you.

Except Nigel is selling it already.

Piling speculation upon a heapm of them, it would be interesting to see what happened if Reform had the chance to show us that simple answers are not available to intractable questions thrown up by modernity.

I have no idea what Reform would do, and nor do they, but its current policies consist of: continuation of post 1945 social democracy (at the moment there is nothing else that can get voters voting), + national populism + stop importing the workers who produce the laborious work of that social democracy UK residents don't feel like doing + funding done by milking unicorns.

Best guess: have a look at Italy and Argentina

BartholomewRoberts said:

...

HYUFD said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

HYUFD said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

HYUFD said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

malcolmg said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

rottenborough said:

This. 100x this.

Either Reeves needs to back down/ameliorate or Starmer needs to sack her before she ends their 2028-29 chances with four years to go.

It's a bloody disaster as PBers like me said on the day it was announced.


" ‘It’s only a matter of time until we get some terrible case,’ a minister confided to me. ‘It happens every year, some tragedy where a pensioner dies alone. But this year it will be blamed on us – for winter fuel allowance cuts. And then we’re going to be in the midst of a full-blown crisis.’ "

"But they cannot align the relatively small saving with the potentially catastrophic political cost of being seen to target some of the most vulnerable in society in wintertime."

"I’ve spoken to Cabinet ministers, junior ministers, MPs, councillors, party officials, activists, trade union officials. I have yet to find a single person within Labour’s ranks who genuinely believes in the winter fuel benefit cut. Or thinks it is politically sustainable."

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-14168519/DAN-HODGES-Pensioners-die-freezing-minister-confided-winter-fuel-axe-Labours-ranks-tell-fear-worse-come.html

Cut the self-entitled spoilt crap.

Featherbedded spoilt people expecting others to give them money they haven't earned and don't need deserve zero sympathy. None whatsoever.

Pensioners are not the "most vulnerable" in society, that is pig ignorant. 75% own their own home without a mortgage and they aren't even the most vulnerable to the cold, that is infants under 1 year of age who are far more vulnerable than pensioners but have never had such entitlement.

Welfare should be a safety net for those who need it.

You are not even at the level of a halfwit. Plenty of pensioners are poor you absolute unfeeling twat , an excuse for a human being.

Plenty of people of all ages are poor - why do only pensioners matter to you?

If poor people need welfare, then it should be targeted at those who need it, not those who don't.

And the most in need are poor babies, not pensioners. Contrary to received myths on here, pensioners have never been the most vulnerable to the cold.

Compared to the average Briton pensioners are more vulnerable to the cold, what a stupid post

Why are you comparing to "average"?

Compared to infants under 1 year of age pensioners are LESS vulnerable to the cold.

So give me one damned reason why the hell should we give pensioners universal payments for winter fuel while their more vulnerable (great-)grandchildren are left to freeze in their cots without it.

For starters as their parents are likely to be on higher incomes as still earning a wage while many pensioners will be on little more than state pensions

Shows how ignorant you are.

Most pensioners are on both more than state pension and not paying either rent or mortgage.

Almost every parent of an infant is paying either rent or a mortgage and most are not on high incomes.

If you want to support the needy universally then infants are more needy than pensioners, universally. If you want it to be means tested, then support means testing. Supporting universality to the less needy is just preposterous.

A substantial proportion are not.

State pension is £9k a year, large numbers of state pensioners renting privately or in council homes while even minimum wage is £20k a year now full time and WFA been cut even for pensioner incomes thousands less than that

To put that £9k state pension into a different context, the threshold for getting free school meals is a household income of £7400 per annum, so £1600 per year below the state pension level, and a quarter of school age children are on free school meals.

A quarter also being the proportion of state pensioners who don't own their own home without a mortgage.

I don't have a figure available to hand as to what proportion of households with infants are on an income of less than the state pension, but I see no reason why it will be substantially different.

That is free school meals for children of school age who will certainly be healthier than an 80 to 90 year old pensioner who won't get a free meal a day and won't even get their heating in winter funded too now even if on a pretty low income.

Unless both parents of the infant are on UC and don't work even a minimum wage job (which will certainly be well under 5% miles less than a quarter) of course they will be earning more than a state pensioner

algarkirk said:

FF43 said:

rottenborough said:

Leon said:

Shecorns88 said:

The more narcissistic basically evil, I the case of Braverman, nut jobs join Reform, better for Labour.

Reform go further and further to the Rabid Right and the more Badenochs Tories and her disgraced Right flank and Reform tear strips off each other trying to be worker than woke and more anti anti establishment.

Keir meanwhile gets his head down and grafts grafts grafts boringly but relentless steady slow improvement.

Turning the NHS around, increasing House Building, reducing net migration, clearing the Tory Asylum backlogs.

Interest rates slip quietly down, mortgage base rate slips in the 3.somethings, god forbid a few tax reductions in the form of slowly increasing tax thresholds, wealth and windfall taxes on the greedy for the needy.

The massive UK tanker, slowly turned around.

By 2028 what is the solution, rabid Right or steady solid dependable Left...

Nah, Labour are fucked. Look how they are already cratering in Scotland. Starmer hasn’t the charisma, wit or ideas to get anything done. One term

He might get loads done but it wont be enough. The message from Biden loss is loud and clear: being able to point at a long list of technocratic things you've done and how good the GDP is, or how high the % of widgets produced this term is not worth gnats piss in the new political era.

Thing is, if Labour goes, it means we're done with liberal democracy. Conservatives won't be able to convince anyone, actually we're fine now. So we end up with Reform. And if anyone thinks that's a recipe for sorting things out, I would have a bridge to sell you.

Except Nigel is selling it already.

Piling speculation upon a heapm of them, it would be interesting to see what happened if Reform had the chance to show us that simple answers are not available to intractable questions thrown up by modernity.

I have no idea what Reform would do, and nor do they, but its current policies consist of: continuation of post 1945 social democracy (at the moment there is nothing else that can get voters voting), + national populism + stop importing the workers who produce the laborious work of that social democracy UK residents don't feel like doing + funding done by milking unicorns.

Best guess: have a look at Italy and Argentina

I just wonder if we have to accept a Reform government now. Hope it’s a success in which case I’ll cheer it on, otherwise they’ll crash and burn and something will hopefully recover from the ashes.

kle4 said:

algarkirk said:

rcs1000 said:

viewcode said:

Some of you may be aware of the problems of autocratic states as described in the works of Anne Applebaum. One of the aspects of those problems is the social contract between autocrat and the people: the autocrat provides security and safety, the people give up the desire to get involved in politics. The Simon Whistler channel "Warfronts" has done a brief explainer

The Social Contract: How Autocrats Stay in Power: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdmZhVmP2z0 (27 mins)

British people find it difficult to understand that Putin does have the support of the Russian people, and he genuinely does. But it's not expressed via the democratic process, and he may fall if he cannot maintain his side of the deal.

There's also the fact that if you stand up to the dictator you mysteriously die. Or, if you're lucky, get shipped off to a labor camp in Siberia. And then die.

It kinda discourages people from sticking their neck out, unless they are really, really unhappy.

Of all the ways of organising society it is, after democracy, the next least worst.

I think in the democratic west we sort of forget that there aren't a lot of options somewhere between the miraculous construction of a multi party democracy 'strong man' as we have, with its amazing power to replace the 'strong man' nicely, and the old fashioned strong man of powerful autocracy, open to every possibility except opposition to itself.

Strong government is probably better than utterly chaotic weak government, which is often the alternative open to people unfortunately, so it's not a surprise when people would go for it.

The generational issue mentioned is an interesting one, there's probably studies of how long such regimes in general can maintain the beneficial side of the equation before corruption/abuse, and reset/collapse. Take a place like Oman, which seems to have benefited very well under Sultan Qaboos for decades, now gone but will his style continue on this generation? The next?

Maybe the best solution, if only you thought of it at the right time, is to have an ever changing powerful state called the government/ parliament, + a powerless state alongside it which as it happens can trace its direct descent to and beyond the person of Alfred the Great (b 848). Don't tell our French or USA friends.

I guess the question is whether you fundamentally think a Reform UK Government would be good for the UK.

I really, really don’t. But if they make a success of it then who am I to argue.

Stuartinromford said:

Jim_Miller said:

Section 1 of the 14th Amendment seems clear enough: "Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_the_United_States

There we go then. Nothing to stop the President doing any of those things.

Indeed, it seems to explicitly reserve the power to fuck over citizens to the Federal government

Shecorns88 said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

algarkirk said:

FF43 said:

rottenborough said:

Leon said:

Shecorns88 said:

The more narcissistic basically evil, I the case of Braverman, nut jobs join Reform, better for Labour.

Reform go further and further to the Rabid Right and the more Badenochs Tories and her disgraced Right flank and Reform tear strips off each other trying to be worker than woke and more anti anti establishment.

Keir meanwhile gets his head down and grafts grafts grafts boringly but relentless steady slow improvement.

Turning the NHS around, increasing House Building, reducing net migration, clearing the Tory Asylum backlogs.

Interest rates slip quietly down, mortgage base rate slips in the 3.somethings, god forbid a few tax reductions in the form of slowly increasing tax thresholds, wealth and windfall taxes on the greedy for the needy.

The massive UK tanker, slowly turned around.

By 2028 what is the solution, rabid Right or steady solid dependable Left...

Nah, Labour are fucked. Look how they are already cratering in Scotland. Starmer hasn’t the charisma, wit or ideas to get anything done. One term

He might get loads done but it wont be enough. The message from Biden loss is loud and clear: being able to point at a long list of technocratic things you've done and how good the GDP is, or how high the % of widgets produced this term is not worth gnats piss in the new political era.

Thing is, if Labour goes, it means we're done with liberal democracy. Conservatives won't be able to convince anyone, actually we're fine now. So we end up with Reform. And if anyone thinks that's a recipe for sorting things out, I would have a bridge to sell you.

Except Nigel is selling it already.

Piling speculation upon a heapm of them, it would be interesting to see what happened if Reform had the chance to show us that simple answers are not available to intractable questions thrown up by modernity.

I have no idea what Reform would do, and nor do they, but its current policies consist of: continuation of post 1945 social democracy (at the moment there is nothing else that can get voters voting), + national populism + stop importing the workers who produce the laborious work of that social democracy UK residents don't feel like doing + funding done by milking unicorns.

Best guess: have a look at Italy and Argentina

I just wonder if we have to accept a Reform government now. Hope it’s a success in which case I’ll cheer it on, otherwise they’ll crash and burn and something will hopefully recover from the ashes.

Thats just what Germans and Italians said in the 1930s

We cannot allow Fascism to entrench in the UK.

Yes but Leon you actively support Reform UK.

Leon said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

The government wants to introduce a digital ID that lives on your phone rather than a physical card. You can then verify your identity that way.

Seems eminently sensible to me.

Amazing what we seem to have money for - someone told me there was a £22bn black hole.

This would be really quite cheap to produce, as it is digital. No doubt HMG will find some way to make it cost 8 trillion, but it shouldn’t

I used to be fiercely anti-ID cards, but given how much data we now yield to tech corporations on an hourly basis, including our precise LOCATION, I can’t be arsed to oppose them any more. A digital ID that allows you to accesss government online, and prove your entitlement to NHS care, benefits, etc, makes a load of sense

It will also be an excellent way of beginning the long overdue crackdown on migration and asylum

The actual physical cards are trivially cheap.

The cost is down to how demented to connection to absolutely all other government data is. And how stupid the verification on sign up system is.

On both counts, the previous attempt was a disaster.

The previous system was illegal under current European data protection law, by the way. So would be extremely problematic if we tried to do the same thing again. But we will, of course.

Additionally, your phone has a unique credit card number/token assigned to each transaction, so they can’t clone your card and reuse it, if you use your phone.

Your phone is a much, much safer way to pay than any other form of payment ever invented. It’s why I solely use Apple Pay.

Quite honestly I hate to say it but at this point I’d vote Reform UK over the Tories. They at least made some attempt to appeal to me even if all of their solutions are wrong.

Shecorns88 said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

algarkirk said:

FF43 said:

rottenborough said:

Leon said:

Shecorns88 said:

The more narcissistic basically evil, I the case of Braverman, nut jobs join Reform, better for Labour.

Reform go further and further to the Rabid Right and the more Badenochs Tories and her disgraced Right flank and Reform tear strips off each other trying to be worker than woke and more anti anti establishment.

Keir meanwhile gets his head down and grafts grafts grafts boringly but relentless steady slow improvement.

Turning the NHS around, increasing House Building, reducing net migration, clearing the Tory Asylum backlogs.

Interest rates slip quietly down, mortgage base rate slips in the 3.somethings, god forbid a few tax reductions in the form of slowly increasing tax thresholds, wealth and windfall taxes on the greedy for the needy.

The massive UK tanker, slowly turned around.

By 2028 what is the solution, rabid Right or steady solid dependable Left...

Nah, Labour are fucked. Look how they are already cratering in Scotland. Starmer hasn’t the charisma, wit or ideas to get anything done. One term

He might get loads done but it wont be enough. The message from Biden loss is loud and clear: being able to point at a long list of technocratic things you've done and how good the GDP is, or how high the % of widgets produced this term is not worth gnats piss in the new political era.

Thing is, if Labour goes, it means we're done with liberal democracy. Conservatives won't be able to convince anyone, actually we're fine now. So we end up with Reform. And if anyone thinks that's a recipe for sorting things out, I would have a bridge to sell you.

Except Nigel is selling it already.

Piling speculation upon a heapm of them, it would be interesting to see what happened if Reform had the chance to show us that simple answers are not available to intractable questions thrown up by modernity.

I have no idea what Reform would do, and nor do they, but its current policies consist of: continuation of post 1945 social democracy (at the moment there is nothing else that can get voters voting), + national populism + stop importing the workers who produce the laborious work of that social democracy UK residents don't feel like doing + funding done by milking unicorns.

Best guess: have a look at Italy and Argentina

I just wonder if we have to accept a Reform government now. Hope it’s a success in which case I’ll cheer it on, otherwise they’ll crash and burn and something will hopefully recover from the ashes.

Thats just what Germans and Italians said in the 1930s

We cannot allow Fascism to entrench in the UK.

And yet you have a well known fascist calling card in your username, which isn't a coincidence given who is behind your account.

Leon said:

Eabhal said:

Leon said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

The government wants to introduce a digital ID that lives on your phone rather than a physical card. You can then verify your identity that way.

Seems eminently sensible to me.

Amazing what we seem to have money for - someone told me there was a £22bn black hole.

This would be really quite cheap to produce, as it is digital. No doubt HMG will find some way to make it cost 8 trillion, but it shouldn’t

I used to be fiercely anti-ID cards, but given how much data we now yield to tech corporations on an hourly basis, including our precise LOCATION, I can’t be arsed to oppose them any more. A digital ID that allows you to accesss government online, and prove your entitlement to NHS care, benefits, etc, makes a load of sense

It will also be an excellent way of beginning the long overdue crackdown on migration and asylum

FFS, it's not like the physical cost of something is ever the reason it's expensive. GTA VI is going to cost $2 billion to make, and that's just a downloadable game.

No, digital should be cheaper. You just assign a QR code for every UK citizen, along with some unique password stored elsewhere. Put it on a digital card on your phone, also stored it the cloud, Pay amazon to host it. Add a what3words to tell HMG where you sleep, what corner of the bed etc

That’s it. You gotta have that to access anything to do with HMG, hospital care, doctors, benefits, crossing unsold bridges, using motorways, being protected by the British army. The added advantage of this is that old and stupid people without smartphones or who can’t cope with digital stuff will be refused medical care and they will gradually be winnowed out, thus decreasing the burden on the state of the old and the stupid

A little factoid: data from digital films costs far more for the production companies to store than 'traditional' models.

Data storage can be cheap. Data storage where you can guarantee retrieval? expensive.

BartholomewRoberts said:

Shecorns88 said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

algarkirk said:

FF43 said:

rottenborough said:

Leon said:

Shecorns88 said:

The more narcissistic basically evil, I the case of Braverman, nut jobs join Reform, better for Labour.

Reform go further and further to the Rabid Right and the more Badenochs Tories and her disgraced Right flank and Reform tear strips off each other trying to be worker than woke and more anti anti establishment.

Keir meanwhile gets his head down and grafts grafts grafts boringly but relentless steady slow improvement.

Turning the NHS around, increasing House Building, reducing net migration, clearing the Tory Asylum backlogs.

Interest rates slip quietly down, mortgage base rate slips in the 3.somethings, god forbid a few tax reductions in the form of slowly increasing tax thresholds, wealth and windfall taxes on the greedy for the needy.

The massive UK tanker, slowly turned around.

By 2028 what is the solution, rabid Right or steady solid dependable Left...

Nah, Labour are fucked. Look how they are already cratering in Scotland. Starmer hasn’t the charisma, wit or ideas to get anything done. One term

He might get loads done but it wont be enough. The message from Biden loss is loud and clear: being able to point at a long list of technocratic things you've done and how good the GDP is, or how high the % of widgets produced this term is not worth gnats piss in the new political era.

Thing is, if Labour goes, it means we're done with liberal democracy. Conservatives won't be able to convince anyone, actually we're fine now. So we end up with Reform. And if anyone thinks that's a recipe for sorting things out, I would have a bridge to sell you.

Except Nigel is selling it already.

Piling speculation upon a heapm of them, it would be interesting to see what happened if Reform had the chance to show us that simple answers are not available to intractable questions thrown up by modernity.

I have no idea what Reform would do, and nor do they, but its current policies consist of: continuation of post 1945 social democracy (at the moment there is nothing else that can get voters voting), + national populism + stop importing the workers who produce the laborious work of that social democracy UK residents don't feel like doing + funding done by milking unicorns.

Best guess: have a look at Italy and Argentina

I just wonder if we have to accept a Reform government now. Hope it’s a success in which case I’ll cheer it on, otherwise they’ll crash and burn and something will hopefully recover from the ashes.

Thats just what Germans and Italians said in the 1930s

We cannot allow Fascism to entrench in the UK.

And yet you have a well known fascist calling card in your username, which isn't a coincidence given who is behind your account.

oooh, Sherlock!

Who is behind @Shecorns88???

BartholomewRoberts said:

Leon said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Shecorns88 said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

algarkirk said:

FF43 said:

rottenborough said:

Leon said:

Shecorns88 said:

The more narcissistic basically evil, I the case of Braverman, nut jobs join Reform, better for Labour.

Reform go further and further to the Rabid Right and the more Badenochs Tories and her disgraced Right flank and Reform tear strips off each other trying to be worker than woke and more anti anti establishment.

Keir meanwhile gets his head down and grafts grafts grafts boringly but relentless steady slow improvement.

Turning the NHS around, increasing House Building, reducing net migration, clearing the Tory Asylum backlogs.

Interest rates slip quietly down, mortgage base rate slips in the 3.somethings, god forbid a few tax reductions in the form of slowly increasing tax thresholds, wealth and windfall taxes on the greedy for the needy.

The massive UK tanker, slowly turned around.

By 2028 what is the solution, rabid Right or steady solid dependable Left...

Nah, Labour are fucked. Look how they are already cratering in Scotland. Starmer hasn’t the charisma, wit or ideas to get anything done. One term

He might get loads done but it wont be enough. The message from Biden loss is loud and clear: being able to point at a long list of technocratic things you've done and how good the GDP is, or how high the % of widgets produced this term is not worth gnats piss in the new political era.

Thing is, if Labour goes, it means we're done with liberal democracy. Conservatives won't be able to convince anyone, actually we're fine now. So we end up with Reform. And if anyone thinks that's a recipe for sorting things out, I would have a bridge to sell you.

Except Nigel is selling it already.

Piling speculation upon a heapm of them, it would be interesting to see what happened if Reform had the chance to show us that simple answers are not available to intractable questions thrown up by modernity.

I have no idea what Reform would do, and nor do they, but its current policies consist of: continuation of post 1945 social democracy (at the moment there is nothing else that can get voters voting), + national populism + stop importing the workers who produce the laborious work of that social democracy UK residents don't feel like doing + funding done by milking unicorns.

Best guess: have a look at Italy and Argentina

I just wonder if we have to accept a Reform government now. Hope it’s a success in which case I’ll cheer it on, otherwise they’ll crash and burn and something will hopefully recover from the ashes.

Thats just what Germans and Italians said in the 1930s

We cannot allow Fascism to entrench in the UK.

And yet you have a well known fascist calling card in your username, which isn't a coincidence given who is behind your account.

oooh, Sherlock!

Who is behind @Shecorns88???

Doxxing users is forbidden so I won't say so, but there's one fasc-friendly 88 fan here.

On a completely unrelated note Leon, are you a fan of this song? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PivWY9wn5ps

Thanks for the final proof that you’re a delusional halfwit

Leon said:

Eabhal said:

Leon said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

The government wants to introduce a digital ID that lives on your phone rather than a physical card. You can then verify your identity that way.

Seems eminently sensible to me.

Amazing what we seem to have money for - someone told me there was a £22bn black hole.

This would be really quite cheap to produce, as it is digital. No doubt HMG will find some way to make it cost 8 trillion, but it shouldn’t

I used to be fiercely anti-ID cards, but given how much data we now yield to tech corporations on an hourly basis, including our precise LOCATION, I can’t be arsed to oppose them any more. A digital ID that allows you to accesss government online, and prove your entitlement to NHS care, benefits, etc, makes a load of sense

It will also be an excellent way of beginning the long overdue crackdown on migration and asylum

FFS, it's not like the physical cost of something is ever the reason it's expensive. GTA VI is going to cost $2 billion to make, and that's just a downloadable game.

No, digital should be cheaper. You just assign a QR code for every UK citizen, along with some unique password stored elsewhere. Put it on a digital card on your phone, also stored it the cloud, Pay amazon to host it. Add a what3words to tell HMG where you sleep, what corner of the bed etc

That’s it. You gotta have that to access anything to do with HMG, hospital care, doctors, benefits, crossing unsold bridges, using motorways, being protected by the British army. The added advantage of this is that old and stupid people without smartphones or who can’t cope with digital stuff will be refused medical care and they will gradually be winnowed out, thus decreasing the burden on the state of the old and the stupid

It is UN digital id so the software probably already exists.

BartholomewRoberts said:

Shecorns88 said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

algarkirk said:

FF43 said:

rottenborough said:

Leon said:

Shecorns88 said:

The more narcissistic basically evil, I the case of Braverman, nut jobs join Reform, better for Labour.

Reform go further and further to the Rabid Right and the more Badenochs Tories and her disgraced Right flank and Reform tear strips off each other trying to be worker than woke and more anti anti establishment.

Keir meanwhile gets his head down and grafts grafts grafts boringly but relentless steady slow improvement.

Turning the NHS around, increasing House Building, reducing net migration, clearing the Tory Asylum backlogs.

Interest rates slip quietly down, mortgage base rate slips in the 3.somethings, god forbid a few tax reductions in the form of slowly increasing tax thresholds, wealth and windfall taxes on the greedy for the needy.

The massive UK tanker, slowly turned around.

By 2028 what is the solution, rabid Right or steady solid dependable Left...

Nah, Labour are fucked. Look how they are already cratering in Scotland. Starmer hasn’t the charisma, wit or ideas to get anything done. One term

He might get loads done but it wont be enough. The message from Biden loss is loud and clear: being able to point at a long list of technocratic things you've done and how good the GDP is, or how high the % of widgets produced this term is not worth gnats piss in the new political era.

Thing is, if Labour goes, it means we're done with liberal democracy. Conservatives won't be able to convince anyone, actually we're fine now. So we end up with Reform. And if anyone thinks that's a recipe for sorting things out, I would have a bridge to sell you.

Except Nigel is selling it already.

Piling speculation upon a heapm of them, it would be interesting to see what happened if Reform had the chance to show us that simple answers are not available to intractable questions thrown up by modernity.

I have no idea what Reform would do, and nor do they, but its current policies consist of: continuation of post 1945 social democracy (at the moment there is nothing else that can get voters voting), + national populism + stop importing the workers who produce the laborious work of that social democracy UK residents don't feel like doing + funding done by milking unicorns.

Best guess: have a look at Italy and Argentina

I just wonder if we have to accept a Reform government now. Hope it’s a success in which case I’ll cheer it on, otherwise they’ll crash and burn and something will hopefully recover from the ashes.

Thats just what Germans and Italians said in the 1930s

We cannot allow Fascism to entrench in the UK.

And yet you have a well known fascist calling card in your username, which isn't a coincidence given who is behind your account.

I just assumed it was 36 year old who hadn't bothered to look up the nasty connotation.

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

Leon said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Shecorns88 said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

algarkirk said:

FF43 said:

rottenborough said:

Leon said:

Shecorns88 said:

The more narcissistic basically evil, I the case of Braverman, nut jobs join Reform, better for Labour.

Reform go further and further to the Rabid Right and the more Badenochs Tories and her disgraced Right flank and Reform tear strips off each other trying to be worker than woke and more anti anti establishment.

Keir meanwhile gets his head down and grafts grafts grafts boringly but relentless steady slow improvement.

Turning the NHS around, increasing House Building, reducing net migration, clearing the Tory Asylum backlogs.

Interest rates slip quietly down, mortgage base rate slips in the 3.somethings, god forbid a few tax reductions in the form of slowly increasing tax thresholds, wealth and windfall taxes on the greedy for the needy.

The massive UK tanker, slowly turned around.

By 2028 what is the solution, rabid Right or steady solid dependable Left...

Nah, Labour are fucked. Look how they are already cratering in Scotland. Starmer hasn’t the charisma, wit or ideas to get anything done. One term

He might get loads done but it wont be enough. The message from Biden loss is loud and clear: being able to point at a long list of technocratic things you've done and how good the GDP is, or how high the % of widgets produced this term is not worth gnats piss in the new political era.

Thing is, if Labour goes, it means we're done with liberal democracy. Conservatives won't be able to convince anyone, actually we're fine now. So we end up with Reform. And if anyone thinks that's a recipe for sorting things out, I would have a bridge to sell you.

Except Nigel is selling it already.

Piling speculation upon a heapm of them, it would be interesting to see what happened if Reform had the chance to show us that simple answers are not available to intractable questions thrown up by modernity.

I have no idea what Reform would do, and nor do they, but its current policies consist of: continuation of post 1945 social democracy (at the moment there is nothing else that can get voters voting), + national populism + stop importing the workers who produce the laborious work of that social democracy UK residents don't feel like doing + funding done by milking unicorns.

Best guess: have a look at Italy and Argentina

I just wonder if we have to accept a Reform government now. Hope it’s a success in which case I’ll cheer it on, otherwise they’ll crash and burn and something will hopefully recover from the ashes.

Thats just what Germans and Italians said in the 1930s

We cannot allow Fascism to entrench in the UK.

And yet you have a well known fascist calling card in your username, which isn't a coincidence given who is behind your account.

oooh, Sherlock!

Who is behind @Shecorns88???

You.

i mean, I’m flattered, don’t get me wrong

I’m like the Mossad of PB. Everything devious, new and clever is ascribed to me, and I am credited with astonishing levels of cunning and wiliness, almost magical powers - so, heh, ta

But only the thick credulous people really fall for it, well done for outing yourself

Eabhal said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Shecorns88 said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

algarkirk said:

FF43 said:

rottenborough said:

Leon said:

Shecorns88 said:

The more narcissistic basically evil, I the case of Braverman, nut jobs join Reform, better for Labour.

Reform go further and further to the Rabid Right and the more Badenochs Tories and her disgraced Right flank and Reform tear strips off each other trying to be worker than woke and more anti anti establishment.

Keir meanwhile gets his head down and grafts grafts grafts boringly but relentless steady slow improvement.

Turning the NHS around, increasing House Building, reducing net migration, clearing the Tory Asylum backlogs.

Interest rates slip quietly down, mortgage base rate slips in the 3.somethings, god forbid a few tax reductions in the form of slowly increasing tax thresholds, wealth and windfall taxes on the greedy for the needy.

The massive UK tanker, slowly turned around.

By 2028 what is the solution, rabid Right or steady solid dependable Left...

Nah, Labour are fucked. Look how they are already cratering in Scotland. Starmer hasn’t the charisma, wit or ideas to get anything done. One term

He might get loads done but it wont be enough. The message from Biden loss is loud and clear: being able to point at a long list of technocratic things you've done and how good the GDP is, or how high the % of widgets produced this term is not worth gnats piss in the new political era.

Thing is, if Labour goes, it means we're done with liberal democracy. Conservatives won't be able to convince anyone, actually we're fine now. So we end up with Reform. And if anyone thinks that's a recipe for sorting things out, I would have a bridge to sell you.

Except Nigel is selling it already.

Piling speculation upon a heapm of them, it would be interesting to see what happened if Reform had the chance to show us that simple answers are not available to intractable questions thrown up by modernity.

I have no idea what Reform would do, and nor do they, but its current policies consist of: continuation of post 1945 social democracy (at the moment there is nothing else that can get voters voting), + national populism + stop importing the workers who produce the laborious work of that social democracy UK residents don't feel like doing + funding done by milking unicorns.

Best guess: have a look at Italy and Argentina

I just wonder if we have to accept a Reform government now. Hope it’s a success in which case I’ll cheer it on, otherwise they’ll crash and burn and something will hopefully recover from the ashes.

Thats just what Germans and Italians said in the 1930s

We cannot allow Fascism to entrench in the UK.

And yet you have a well known fascist calling card in your username, which isn't a coincidence given who is behind your account.

I just assumed it was 36 year old who hadn't bothered to look up the nasty connotation.

I don't think its a coincidence.

I assumed it was someone whom I believe is in their fifties (not 100% sure on that) with a history of fascist leanings, creating multiple new accounts on this site and deliberate trolling.

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

The government wants to introduce a digital ID that lives on your phone rather than a physical card. You can then verify your identity that way.

Seems eminently sensible to me.

I haven't got a smartphone. I'm not going to buy one so the Government can install a tracking device on it.

BartholomewRoberts said:

.

Leon said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

Leon said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Shecorns88 said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

algarkirk said:

FF43 said:

rottenborough said:

Leon said:

Shecorns88 said:

The more narcissistic basically evil, I the case of Braverman, nut jobs join Reform, better for Labour.

Reform go further and further to the Rabid Right and the more Badenochs Tories and her disgraced Right flank and Reform tear strips off each other trying to be worker than woke and more anti anti establishment.

Keir meanwhile gets his head down and grafts grafts grafts boringly but relentless steady slow improvement.

Turning the NHS around, increasing House Building, reducing net migration, clearing the Tory Asylum backlogs.

Interest rates slip quietly down, mortgage base rate slips in the 3.somethings, god forbid a few tax reductions in the form of slowly increasing tax thresholds, wealth and windfall taxes on the greedy for the needy.

The massive UK tanker, slowly turned around.

By 2028 what is the solution, rabid Right or steady solid dependable Left...

Nah, Labour are fucked. Look how they are already cratering in Scotland. Starmer hasn’t the charisma, wit or ideas to get anything done. One term

He might get loads done but it wont be enough. The message from Biden loss is loud and clear: being able to point at a long list of technocratic things you've done and how good the GDP is, or how high the % of widgets produced this term is not worth gnats piss in the new political era.

Thing is, if Labour goes, it means we're done with liberal democracy. Conservatives won't be able to convince anyone, actually we're fine now. So we end up with Reform. And if anyone thinks that's a recipe for sorting things out, I would have a bridge to sell you.

Except Nigel is selling it already.

Piling speculation upon a heapm of them, it would be interesting to see what happened if Reform had the chance to show us that simple answers are not available to intractable questions thrown up by modernity.

I have no idea what Reform would do, and nor do they, but its current policies consist of: continuation of post 1945 social democracy (at the moment there is nothing else that can get voters voting), + national populism + stop importing the workers who produce the laborious work of that social democracy UK residents don't feel like doing + funding done by milking unicorns.

Best guess: have a look at Italy and Argentina

I just wonder if we have to accept a Reform government now. Hope it’s a success in which case I’ll cheer it on, otherwise they’ll crash and burn and something will hopefully recover from the ashes.

Thats just what Germans and Italians said in the 1930s

We cannot allow Fascism to entrench in the UK.

And yet you have a well known fascist calling card in your username, which isn't a coincidence given who is behind your account.

oooh, Sherlock!

Who is behind @Shecorns88???

You.

i mean, I’m flattered, don’t get me wrong

I’m like the Mossad of PB. Everything devious, new and clever is ascribed to me, and I am credited with astonishing levels of cunning and wiliness, almost magical powers - so, heh, ta

But only the thick credulous people really fall for it, well done for outing yourself

Trolling is neither astonishing, nor wily, nor cunning, nor magical.

Its merely trolling.

Not your best day. What you’re accusing me of isn’t even “trolling” = you don’t have the vocabulary to precisely express your own thoughts

What you’re accusing me of, re Ms Shecorns, is “sock-puppetry” - creating fake internet personae for amusement, manipulation, or whatever

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sock_puppet_account

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Leon said:

turbotubbs said:

Leon said:

The Big Flap continues


“Have YOU seen the mysterious #drones in the night sky over #NewJersey?

EXCLUSIVE @News12NJ video from the @OceanCounty911 shows their first captured encounter with what they believe to be one of those drones.”

https://x.com/n12tkrosnowski/status/1865597595428479460?s=46

It’s not “one kid with a toy” and then a load of contagion. My best guess is still Russia or China

That looks suspiciously like a plane.

How come the New Jersey authorities can’t just call Air Traffic Control and say ‘guys, is this a plane?’

THAT is one of the mysteries here. If all these drones are misidentified planes, toys, balloons, surely it takes one person with an IQ north of 120 to prove all this??

Otoh if the US authorities are genuinely worried, why can't they lay their hands on a decent camera lens and a drone to mount it on?

Oh, I agree. The whole thing is fucking weird, in multiple ways. I love it

Leon said:

turbotubbs said:

Leon said:

The Big Flap continues


“Have YOU seen the mysterious #drones in the night sky over #NewJersey?

EXCLUSIVE @News12NJ video from the @OceanCounty911 shows their first captured encounter with what they believe to be one of those drones.”

https://x.com/n12tkrosnowski/status/1865597595428479460?s=46

It’s not “one kid with a toy” and then a load of contagion. My best guess is still Russia or China

That looks suspiciously like a plane.

How come the New Jersey authorities can’t just call Air Traffic Control and say ‘guys, is this a plane?’

THAT is one of the mysteries here. If all these drones are misidentified planes, toys, balloons, surely it takes one person with an IQ north of 120 to prove all this??

Because ATC do not rely on radars. They rely on *transmitters*, aka transponders, on the aircraft. Not all aircraft have transponders turned on; civils because of mistakes; military because of intent (they don't want people to know where they are, often even whilst training).

Also: ATC can be very busy. They concentrate on keeping airspace safe, not answering weird questions about UFOs.

Leon said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

.

Leon said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

Leon said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Shecorns88 said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

algarkirk said:

FF43 said:

rottenborough said:

Leon said:

Shecorns88 said:

The more narcissistic basically evil, I the case of Braverman, nut jobs join Reform, better for Labour.

Reform go further and further to the Rabid Right and the more Badenochs Tories and her disgraced Right flank and Reform tear strips off each other trying to be worker than woke and more anti anti establishment.

Keir meanwhile gets his head down and grafts grafts grafts boringly but relentless steady slow improvement.

Turning the NHS around, increasing House Building, reducing net migration, clearing the Tory Asylum backlogs.

Interest rates slip quietly down, mortgage base rate slips in the 3.somethings, god forbid a few tax reductions in the form of slowly increasing tax thresholds, wealth and windfall taxes on the greedy for the needy.

The massive UK tanker, slowly turned around.

By 2028 what is the solution, rabid Right or steady solid dependable Left...

Nah, Labour are fucked. Look how they are already cratering in Scotland. Starmer hasn’t the charisma, wit or ideas to get anything done. One term

He might get loads done but it wont be enough. The message from Biden loss is loud and clear: being able to point at a long list of technocratic things you've done and how good the GDP is, or how high the % of widgets produced this term is not worth gnats piss in the new political era.

Thing is, if Labour goes, it means we're done with liberal democracy. Conservatives won't be able to convince anyone, actually we're fine now. So we end up with Reform. And if anyone thinks that's a recipe for sorting things out, I would have a bridge to sell you.

Except Nigel is selling it already.

Piling speculation upon a heapm of them, it would be interesting to see what happened if Reform had the chance to show us that simple answers are not available to intractable questions thrown up by modernity.

I have no idea what Reform would do, and nor do they, but its current policies consist of: continuation of post 1945 social democracy (at the moment there is nothing else that can get voters voting), + national populism + stop importing the workers who produce the laborious work of that social democracy UK residents don't feel like doing + funding done by milking unicorns.

Best guess: have a look at Italy and Argentina

I just wonder if we have to accept a Reform government now. Hope it’s a success in which case I’ll cheer it on, otherwise they’ll crash and burn and something will hopefully recover from the ashes.

Thats just what Germans and Italians said in the 1930s

We cannot allow Fascism to entrench in the UK.

And yet you have a well known fascist calling card in your username, which isn't a coincidence given who is behind your account.

oooh, Sherlock!

Who is behind @Shecorns88???

You.

i mean, I’m flattered, don’t get me wrong

I’m like the Mossad of PB. Everything devious, new and clever is ascribed to me, and I am credited with astonishing levels of cunning and wiliness, almost magical powers - so, heh, ta

But only the thick credulous people really fall for it, well done for outing yourself

Trolling is neither astonishing, nor wily, nor cunning, nor magical.

Its merely trolling.

Not your best day. What you’re accusing me of isn’t even “trolling” = you don’t have the vocabulary to precisely express your own thoughts

What you’re accusing me of, re Ms Shecorns, is “sock-puppetry” - creating fake internet personae for amusement, manipulation, or whatever

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sock_puppet_account

Your attempts to simultaneously humblebrag and deflect are entirely unconvincing.

As are the fact that you don't realise sock puppets are commonly used by trolls, as said by your own link, which is contained within the "internet trolling" category. 🤦‍♂️

BartholomewRoberts said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

Quite honestly I hate to say it but at this point I’d vote Reform UK over the Tories. They at least made some attempt to appeal to me even if all of their solutions are wrong.

All the way from Corbyn to Farage is some journey !!!!!

Horseshoe theory.

There's not that big of a gap between far left and far right.

Original fascist theory was that the idea behind state direction of the economy and society was correct, but that it needed added nationalism in it’s goals

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

solarflare said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

The government wants to introduce a digital ID that lives on your phone rather than a physical card. You can then verify your identity that way.

Seems eminently sensible to me.

Nobody steals phones.

Actually, you’re much safer having your card on your phone as you can deactivate it remotely straight away.

With a physical card they can use it until the bank is told to block it.

Isn't that the same thing, with a different process. If your phone is stolen, you have to deactivate it. If your card is stolen, you have to deactivate it.

BartholomewRoberts said:

Leon said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

.

Leon said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

Leon said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Shecorns88 said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

algarkirk said:

FF43 said:

rottenborough said:

Leon said:

Shecorns88 said:

The more narcissistic basically evil, I the case of Braverman, nut jobs join Reform, better for Labour.

Reform go further and further to the Rabid Right and the more Badenochs Tories and her disgraced Right flank and Reform tear strips off each other trying to be worker than woke and more anti anti establishment.

Keir meanwhile gets his head down and grafts grafts grafts boringly but relentless steady slow improvement.

Turning the NHS around, increasing House Building, reducing net migration, clearing the Tory Asylum backlogs.

Interest rates slip quietly down, mortgage base rate slips in the 3.somethings, god forbid a few tax reductions in the form of slowly increasing tax thresholds, wealth and windfall taxes on the greedy for the needy.

The massive UK tanker, slowly turned around.

By 2028 what is the solution, rabid Right or steady solid dependable Left...

Nah, Labour are fucked. Look how they are already cratering in Scotland. Starmer hasn’t the charisma, wit or ideas to get anything done. One term

He might get loads done but it wont be enough. The message from Biden loss is loud and clear: being able to point at a long list of technocratic things you've done and how good the GDP is, or how high the % of widgets produced this term is not worth gnats piss in the new political era.

Thing is, if Labour goes, it means we're done with liberal democracy. Conservatives won't be able to convince anyone, actually we're fine now. So we end up with Reform. And if anyone thinks that's a recipe for sorting things out, I would have a bridge to sell you.

Except Nigel is selling it already.

Piling speculation upon a heapm of them, it would be interesting to see what happened if Reform had the chance to show us that simple answers are not available to intractable questions thrown up by modernity.

I have no idea what Reform would do, and nor do they, but its current policies consist of: continuation of post 1945 social democracy (at the moment there is nothing else that can get voters voting), + national populism + stop importing the workers who produce the laborious work of that social democracy UK residents don't feel like doing + funding done by milking unicorns.

Best guess: have a look at Italy and Argentina

I just wonder if we have to accept a Reform government now. Hope it’s a success in which case I’ll cheer it on, otherwise they’ll crash and burn and something will hopefully recover from the ashes.

Thats just what Germans and Italians said in the 1930s

We cannot allow Fascism to entrench in the UK.

And yet you have a well known fascist calling card in your username, which isn't a coincidence given who is behind your account.

oooh, Sherlock!

Who is behind @Shecorns88???

You.

i mean, I’m flattered, don’t get me wrong

I’m like the Mossad of PB. Everything devious, new and clever is ascribed to me, and I am credited with astonishing levels of cunning and wiliness, almost magical powers - so, heh, ta

But only the thick credulous people really fall for it, well done for outing yourself

Trolling is neither astonishing, nor wily, nor cunning, nor magical.

Its merely trolling.

Not your best day. What you’re accusing me of isn’t even “trolling” = you don’t have the vocabulary to precisely express your own thoughts

What you’re accusing me of, re Ms Shecorns, is “sock-puppetry” - creating fake internet personae for amusement, manipulation, or whatever

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sock_puppet_account

Your attempts to simultaneously humblebrag and deflect are entirely unconvincing.

As are the fact that you don't realise sock puppets are commonly used by trolls, as said by your own link, which is contained within the "internet trolling" category. 🤦‍♂️

OK, please continue, I was just trying to help

Also, it is genuinely flattering, tho I’d be annoyed if I was @Shecorns88 - in not being allowed to have my own identity

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Leon said:

turbotubbs said:

Leon said:

The Big Flap continues


“Have YOU seen the mysterious #drones in the night sky over #NewJersey?

EXCLUSIVE @News12NJ video from the @OceanCounty911 shows their first captured encounter with what they believe to be one of those drones.”

https://x.com/n12tkrosnowski/status/1865597595428479460?s=46

It’s not “one kid with a toy” and then a load of contagion. My best guess is still Russia or China

That looks suspiciously like a plane.

How come the New Jersey authorities can’t just call Air Traffic Control and say ‘guys, is this a plane?’

THAT is one of the mysteries here. If all these drones are misidentified planes, toys, balloons, surely it takes one person with an IQ north of 120 to prove all this??

Otoh if the US authorities are genuinely worried, why can't they lay their hands on a decent camera lens and a drone to mount it on?

A drone hobby building friend tells me that a project that a number of people have been working on is this - a drone that uses staring camera arrays (approaching 360 coverage) to detect other drones. They then approach automatically, using a Lidar to get range.

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Israel seizes Golan buffer zone after Syrian troops leave positions
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c77jrrxxn07o

Netanyahu’s read the art of the deal.

Leon said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Leon said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

.

Leon said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

Leon said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Shecorns88 said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

algarkirk said:

FF43 said:

rottenborough said:

Leon said:

Shecorns88 said:

The more narcissistic basically evil, I the case of Braverman, nut jobs join Reform, better for Labour.

Reform go further and further to the Rabid Right and the more Badenochs Tories and her disgraced Right flank and Reform tear strips off each other trying to be worker than woke and more anti anti establishment.

Keir meanwhile gets his head down and grafts grafts grafts boringly but relentless steady slow improvement.

Turning the NHS around, increasing House Building, reducing net migration, clearing the Tory Asylum backlogs.

Interest rates slip quietly down, mortgage base rate slips in the 3.somethings, god forbid a few tax reductions in the form of slowly increasing tax thresholds, wealth and windfall taxes on the greedy for the needy.

The massive UK tanker, slowly turned around.

By 2028 what is the solution, rabid Right or steady solid dependable Left...

Nah, Labour are fucked. Look how they are already cratering in Scotland. Starmer hasn’t the charisma, wit or ideas to get anything done. One term

He might get loads done but it wont be enough. The message from Biden loss is loud and clear: being able to point at a long list of technocratic things you've done and how good the GDP is, or how high the % of widgets produced this term is not worth gnats piss in the new political era.

Thing is, if Labour goes, it means we're done with liberal democracy. Conservatives won't be able to convince anyone, actually we're fine now. So we end up with Reform. And if anyone thinks that's a recipe for sorting things out, I would have a bridge to sell you.

Except Nigel is selling it already.

Piling speculation upon a heapm of them, it would be interesting to see what happened if Reform had the chance to show us that simple answers are not available to intractable questions thrown up by modernity.

I have no idea what Reform would do, and nor do they, but its current policies consist of: continuation of post 1945 social democracy (at the moment there is nothing else that can get voters voting), + national populism + stop importing the workers who produce the laborious work of that social democracy UK residents don't feel like doing + funding done by milking unicorns.

Best guess: have a look at Italy and Argentina

I just wonder if we have to accept a Reform government now. Hope it’s a success in which case I’ll cheer it on, otherwise they’ll crash and burn and something will hopefully recover from the ashes.

Thats just what Germans and Italians said in the 1930s

We cannot allow Fascism to entrench in the UK.

And yet you have a well known fascist calling card in your username, which isn't a coincidence given who is behind your account.

oooh, Sherlock!

Who is behind @Shecorns88???

You.

i mean, I’m flattered, don’t get me wrong

I’m like the Mossad of PB. Everything devious, new and clever is ascribed to me, and I am credited with astonishing levels of cunning and wiliness, almost magical powers - so, heh, ta

But only the thick credulous people really fall for it, well done for outing yourself

Trolling is neither astonishing, nor wily, nor cunning, nor magical.

Its merely trolling.

Not your best day. What you’re accusing me of isn’t even “trolling” = you don’t have the vocabulary to precisely express your own thoughts

What you’re accusing me of, re Ms Shecorns, is “sock-puppetry” - creating fake internet personae for amusement, manipulation, or whatever

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sock_puppet_account

Your attempts to simultaneously humblebrag and deflect are entirely unconvincing.

As are the fact that you don't realise sock puppets are commonly used by trolls, as said by your own link, which is contained within the "internet trolling" category. 🤦‍♂️

OK, please continue, I was just trying to help

Also, it is genuinely flattering, tho I’d be annoyed if I was @Shecorns88 - in not being allowed to have my own identity

You are allowed your own identity though. You're allowed many of them in fact.

Leon said:

kle4 said:

Leon said:

FF43 said:

rottenborough said:

Leon said:

Shecorns88 said:

The more narcissistic basically evil, I the case of Braverman, nut jobs join Reform, better for Labour.

Reform go further and further to the Rabid Right and the more Badenochs Tories and her disgraced Right flank and Reform tear strips off each other trying to be worker than woke and more anti anti establishment.

Keir meanwhile gets his head down and grafts grafts grafts boringly but relentless steady slow improvement.

Turning the NHS around, increasing House Building, reducing net migration, clearing the Tory Asylum backlogs.

Interest rates slip quietly down, mortgage base rate slips in the 3.somethings, god forbid a few tax reductions in the form of slowly increasing tax thresholds, wealth and windfall taxes on the greedy for the needy.

The massive UK tanker, slowly turned around.

By 2028 what is the solution, rabid Right or steady solid dependable Left...

Nah, Labour are fucked. Look how they are already cratering in Scotland. Starmer hasn’t the charisma, wit or ideas to get anything done. One term

He might get loads done but it wont be enough. The message from Biden loss is loud and clear: being able to point at a long list of technocratic things you've done and how good the GDP is, or how high the % of widgets produced this term is not worth gnats piss in the new political era.

Thing is, if Labour goes, it means we're done with liberal democracy. Conservatives won't be able to convince anyone, actually we're fine now. So we end up with Reform. And if anyone thinks that's a recipe for sorting things out, I would have a bridge to sell you.

Except Nigel is selling it already.

“I’ve got a bridge to sell you” really is the most terrible fucking cliche in English, it is so cringe and cliched it makes the oratory of Sir Keir Starmer look refreshingly witty

Stop using it

"I've got an AI tech start up to sell you"?

Better

I don’t trust people who use endless tired cliches, it is either a sign of stupidity, or a sign of a crabbed, narrow, midwit view of the world, devoid of imagination, ideas and the spark of hope, eg Sir Keir Starmer KC

It's efficient to use the old chestnuts. Why reinvent the wheel?

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

The government wants to introduce a digital ID that lives on your phone rather than a physical card. You can then verify your identity that way.

Seems eminently sensible to me.

Isn’t there already enough phone theft, without wanting to encourage a lot more of it?

Just imagine how good bad life would be if your monthly benefits payment relied on not having your phone stolen.

I am not saying I am going to vote Reform UK, I am saying I would vote for them over the Tories. That is how utterly useless the Tories are.

I am not and have never been, far left.

Leon said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

Quite honestly I hate to say it but at this point I’d vote Reform UK over the Tories. They at least made some attempt to appeal to me even if all of their solutions are wrong.

All the way from Corbyn to Farage is some journey !!!!!

A lot of young people are making that journey. They despair at their lack of opportunities, particularly re housing. Corbyn sounded like he might solve that, but it turned out he was a pitiful nutter

Now Nigel offers a solution, and at least his has the power of logic. If you stop 1 million people entering the country every year, the pressure on house prices will dissipate fast

No, it won’t.

We are 8 million homes short. If we had new zero immigration it would take multiple decades for population decrease to close the gap.

Just to make it clear, I will still currently be voting for Labour.

If a more leftist leader than SKS become leader, I'd probably abstain or vote Tory in protest.

If SKS crashes and burns I will not vote.

The odds I vote for Reform UK are essentially zero, they are just higher than the Tories.

Also, I've voted Tory before.

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

kle4 said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

kle4 said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

The government wants to introduce a digital ID that lives on your phone rather than a physical card. You can then verify your identity that way.

Seems eminently sensible to me.

I wouldn't trust them to develop such a thing that worked, was safe, and didn't cost 5 times more than whatever they would claim it will cost.

That's leaving aside the pro or anti arguments over the principle.

Gov.uk was one of the few successes of the Tory period. Why can’t this also be a success?

'Few successes' makes the point for me, as would many a government IT project for a start.

Yes but the point is that the government can produce good IT projects if they want to.

The sensible thing would be to look at why Gov.uk was a success.

Gov.uk wasn't a success it was a steaming pile of shit and gets worse year by year