Obviously not the most-read article on the Spectator, that has remained the same for the last 72 hours, but still good. It hints that the Syrian drama may actually menace the Tehran regime in the end (emphasis on “may”)
If the toppling of Assad really does lead to the end of the hideous Iranian regime then I will genuinely celebrate, as that would be an uncontestable victory for humanity
Less likely, as Assad was a Shia leader in a majority Sunni nation (as Saddam on the other side was a Sunni leader in a majority Shia nation). The Iranian regime though are Shia leaders of a majority Shia nation
You make the facile assumption that for most people, religion matters more than other matters in life.
You make that assumption because you are a religious fundamentalist.
I think you are perhaps trying to apply Western European assumptions in a Middle Eastern culture, and perhaps imagining that Islam in the ME exists separately to polity / society; not so - it encompasses it.
The religious bigots try to make religion the society. That is not the natural case. Iran was a fairly western country before 1979, and it has taken the regime a heck of a lot of effort to maintain that lie.
If it comes to a choice between putting food on the table and going to church, most people will choose the food.
You're stuck in your mindset and your worldview, I think.
Religion (even Western religion) does not comprise "going to church".
AFAIK, Islam as it has existed since the 7C in the ME incorporates the social and political order. That's what exists, and overwhelmingly continues to exist. You will find different views on the edges, for example the three of four countries on the Western end of North Africa having rejected or suspended the death penalty whilst maintaining the line that they follow Sharia. And you will find syncretism in some places outside the ME including I think in Iran, but that process is not far down the track yet in that core region.
As I see it, the Shah was an overhang of a puppet regime set up by the British Empire. We made no serious provision for how the countries we created would develop in the future.
The simple version of the Middle East - many countries, post colonially, took to variants on Bathtubism - or imitators thereof. That is - Arab National Socialism. This in turn owed a debt to Atatürk - even where Turkey was hated, he was seen a successful.
Some retained the colonial monarchical setups.
Bathtubism and its relatives failed. They were crappy dictatorships which didn’t deliver anything. Israel repeatedly knocking the stuffing out of some of them, emphasised their uselessness.
Syria was the last stand of the Tubists
So politics around secular government was see to have failed. Into this gap stepped variations on revivalist Islam - Come Back To God and all will be spiffing. If it doesn’t work, we obviously need More God.
Most of the monarchies still standing have trimmed their sails towards More God.
There’s not much you can do about the More God types, apart from let it burn itself out - as in Iran.
Has it not dawned on anyone that there may actually be a completely independent largely left of centre but with a few actually right wing views who has legitimately joined this platform having watched from a distance for some time.
From a distance largely because I wasn't receiving joining confirmation mails to my Gmail account, caused I believe by a known technical blip
Sean, I know you like to come on here with multiple accounts with different personalities and different political views and frankly I found it very annoying initially but now find it quite entertaining.
But it just means I have no idea if what you say, you believe. So you'll forgive me for taking literally anything you say with a pinch of salt.
I think literally the only legitimate SKS supporter on this board, is me.
This is getting annoying now. Please don't do it.
I agree
There is no evidence connecting @Leon to @Shecorns88 as I have already posted
Time to move on
There’s one infallible test.
Ask Shecorns88 a question in Welsh.
If S/he can understand it, s/he is not Leon.
Unless you run it through translation AI, like asking Alexa to translate 'coffee bean 100' into Welsh.
That didn’t end well for Leon last week.
I have news for you on that. More to come
You're going to further demonstrate you have the critical judgement of Sir Keir Starmer?
Want a Job in the Trump Administration? Be Prepared for the Loyalty Test.
"The interviewers asked which candidate the applicants had supported in the three most recent elections, what they thought about the events of Jan. 6, 2021, and whether they believed the 2020 election was stolen. The sense they got was that there was only one right answer to each question."
"In the end, there was very little to Merkel-worship. Just a vague sense that she was a nice person and — crucially — that conservatives disliked her. Puddle-deep and tribal: the cult of Merkel was modern liberalism at its worst."
Janan Ganesh on the Merkel-Anbeter, and her new book.
"For a sense of the tribal shallowness that can overcome smart people, remember that Brits who hated “austerity” swore by this fiscal hawk. Not only did the tension not bother them, I’m not sure it occurred to them in the first place. What mattered was that Merkel, in some ineffable way, seemed to be on the right team. From there, the rest could be backfilled. Her policies? Her track record of judgment? Such a bore."
I didn't particularly like Angela Merkel (although I always liked her kind face) until she made that brave and humane decision to let 1m refugees into Germany. After that I very much did and I still do.
Of course this is not to say she didn't make some big mistakes. All big political figures make big mistakes. It comes with the territory. And people can debate that for Merkel, the weighted average scorecard, if they are so inclined.
"In the end, there was very little to Merkel-worship. Just a vague sense that she was a nice person and — crucially — that conservatives disliked her. Puddle-deep and tribal: the cult of Merkel was modern liberalism at its worst."
Janan Ganesh on the Merkel-Anbeter, and her new book.
"For a sense of the tribal shallowness that can overcome smart people, remember that Brits who hated “austerity” swore by this fiscal hawk. Not only did the tension not bother them, I’m not sure it occurred to them in the first place. What mattered was that Merkel, in some ineffable way, seemed to be on the right team. From there, the rest could be backfilled. Her policies? Her track record of judgment? Such a bore."
I didn't particularly like Angela Merkel (although I always liked her kind face) until she made that brave and humane decision to let 1m refugees into Germany. After that I very much did and I still do. Of course this is not to say she didn't make some big mistakes. All big political figures make big mistakes. It comes with the territory. And people can debate that if they are so inclined.
Would Merkel erase her credit with you if she now came out in favour of repatriating the asylum seekers she let in?
Obviously not the most-read article on the Spectator, that has remained the same for the last 72 hours, but still good. It hints that the Syrian drama may actually menace the Tehran regime in the end (emphasis on “may”)
If the toppling of Assad really does lead to the end of the hideous Iranian regime then I will genuinely celebrate, as that would be an uncontestable victory for humanity
Less likely, as Assad was a Shia leader in a majority Sunni nation (as Saddam on the other side was a Sunni leader in a majority Shia nation). The Iranian regime though are Shia leaders of a majority Shia nation
You make the facile assumption that for most people, religion matters more than other matters in life.
You make that assumption because you are a religious fundamentalist.
In the Middle East it does, whether you are a Shia Muslim or Sunni Muslim (or in relation to Israel a Jew) matters far more than whether you want a socialist or capitalist run economy or even the nation state
You see, you are seeing this from the perspective of a religious bigot.
Most people are not religious bigots, even in the ME.
That is your mistake.
Yes most people in the ME are flocking to gay pride parades, women wandering around the streets in very little with the authorities not batting an eye lid. They certainly don't have public beheadings, floggings or public hangings in half the ME nations either. Oh wait...
You are mistaking the people with the regimes. A mistake Assad has made over the last couple of decades.
Assad was toppled because he was a Shia dictator in a majority Sunni nation. Not because he wasn't pro LGBT enough or too socially conservative and there weren't enough women in his regime.
In reality Assad was relatively secular in ME terms, the rebels who have toppled his regime are rather more rigorous in their following of the Koran than he is
Assad was toppled for many reasons. Because you are a religious bigot, you view events through a religious prism.
You don't care for the tens of thousands he held in prisons without trial *before* the civil war started in 2011. In your mind, they are irrelevant to people's motivations. Ditto other matters. For you, religion is paramount.
I'd argue the motivations of most people are much wider than the religious viewpoint you aspire to.
You are entirely wrong on this, @HYUFD is a believer. Because of that he is able to understand the religious mindset whereas you, a non-believer (IIRC) cannot
For many people religion is not some pleasant add-on, a collection of social rituals, and it is nothing like a political opinion or a tribal affiliation. It goes to the very core of their being, such that they will endure poverty, suffering, adversity, if they are still allowed to believe and worship (if the choice is that stark), indeed some are willing to die for their faith. This may seem so weird to you that you cannot comprehend it, but it shouldn’t be so. The west was like this until the Enlightenment, hence the wars of religion, the burning of martyrs, and so forth
Islam has not had “an Enlightenment” so very many Muslims still believe in the way that Christians believed up until the late 17th century: their religion is bound up with their identity, it gives their life purpose and meaning, going without it would be unbearably painful
The inability of westerners to “get” Islam, in this manner, is at the root of many of our problems with the MENA
Has it not dawned on anyone that there may actually be a completely independent largely left of centre but with a few actually right wing views who has legitimately joined this platform having watched from a distance for some time.
From a distance largely because I wasn't receiving joining confirmation mails to my Gmail account, caused I believe by a known technical blip
Sean, I know you like to come on here with multiple accounts with different personalities and different political views and frankly I found it very annoying initially but now find it quite entertaining.
But it just means I have no idea if what you say, you believe. So you'll forgive me for taking literally anything you say with a pinch of salt.
I think literally the only legitimate SKS supporter on this board, is me.
This is getting annoying now. Please don't do it.
I agree
There is no evidence connecting @Leon to @Shecorns88 as I have already posted
Time to move on
There’s one infallible test.
Ask Shecorns88 a question in Welsh.
If S/he can understand it, s/he is not Leon.
Unless you run it through translation AI, like asking Alexa to translate 'coffee bean 100' into Welsh.
That didn’t end well for Leon last week.
I have news for you on that. More to come
You're going to further demonstrate you have the critical judgement of Sir Keir Starmer?
"In the end, there was very little to Merkel-worship. Just a vague sense that she was a nice person and — crucially — that conservatives disliked her. Puddle-deep and tribal: the cult of Merkel was modern liberalism at its worst."
Janan Ganesh on the Merkel-Anbeter, and her new book.
"For a sense of the tribal shallowness that can overcome smart people, remember that Brits who hated “austerity” swore by this fiscal hawk. Not only did the tension not bother them, I’m not sure it occurred to them in the first place. What mattered was that Merkel, in some ineffable way, seemed to be on the right team. From there, the rest could be backfilled. Her policies? Her track record of judgment? Such a bore."
I didn't particularly like Angela Merkel (although I always liked her kind face) until she made that brave and humane decision to let 1m refugees into Germany. After that I very much did and I still do. Of course this is not to say she didn't make some big mistakes. All big political figures make big mistakes. It comes with the territory. And people can debate that if they are so inclined.
Would Merkel erase her credit with you if she now came out in favour of repatriating the asylum seekers she let in?
Obviously not the most-read article on the Spectator, that has remained the same for the last 72 hours, but still good. It hints that the Syrian drama may actually menace the Tehran regime in the end (emphasis on “may”)
If the toppling of Assad really does lead to the end of the hideous Iranian regime then I will genuinely celebrate, as that would be an uncontestable victory for humanity
Less likely, as Assad was a Shia leader in a majority Sunni nation (as Saddam on the other side was a Sunni leader in a majority Shia nation). The Iranian regime though are Shia leaders of a majority Shia nation
You make the facile assumption that for most people, religion matters more than other matters in life.
You make that assumption because you are a religious fundamentalist.
In the Middle East it does, whether you are a Shia Muslim or Sunni Muslim (or in relation to Israel a Jew) matters far more than whether you want a socialist or capitalist run economy or even the nation state
You see, you are seeing this from the perspective of a religious bigot.
Most people are not religious bigots, even in the ME.
That is your mistake.
Yes most people in the ME are flocking to gay pride parades, women wandering around the streets in very little with the authorities not batting an eye lid. They certainly don't have public beheadings, floggings or public hangings in half the ME nations either. Oh wait...
You are mistaking the people with the regimes. A mistake Assad has made over the last couple of decades.
Assad was toppled because he was a Shia dictator in a majority Sunni nation. Not because he wasn't pro LGBT enough or too socially conservative and there weren't enough women in his regime.
In reality Assad was relatively secular in ME terms, the rebels who have toppled his regime are rather more rigorous in their following of the Koran than he is
Assad is an Alawite, which is a very specific sect: they believe in a form of Trinity and consecrate wine in their ceremonies- It is a fascinating and little understood group unique to the Levant. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alawites
A friend of mine did much research on them and found them an endless source of fascination.
"In the end, there was very little to Merkel-worship. Just a vague sense that she was a nice person and — crucially — that conservatives disliked her. Puddle-deep and tribal: the cult of Merkel was modern liberalism at its worst."
Janan Ganesh on the Merkel-Anbeter, and her new book.
"For a sense of the tribal shallowness that can overcome smart people, remember that Brits who hated “austerity” swore by this fiscal hawk. Not only did the tension not bother them, I’m not sure it occurred to them in the first place. What mattered was that Merkel, in some ineffable way, seemed to be on the right team. From there, the rest could be backfilled. Her policies? Her track record of judgment? Such a bore."
I didn't particularly like Angela Merkel (although I always liked her kind face) until she made that brave and humane decision to let 1m refugees into Germany. After that I very much did and I still do. Of course this is not to say she didn't make some big mistakes. All big political figures make big mistakes. It comes with the territory. And people can debate that if they are so inclined.
Would Merkel erase her credit with you if she now came out in favour of repatriating the asylum seekers she let in?
Yes that would deplete her account with me.
She hasn't, has she?
Not yet, but it could happen. Why is providing temporary refuge not enough for you?
Kremlin to TASS: “Russian officials are in touch with representatives of armed Syrian opposition, whose leaders have guaranteed security of Russian military bases and diplomatic missions on the Syrian territory” tass.com/world/1884227
Phillips OBrien @phillipspobrien.bsky.social · 8m Looks like Assad wanted a ride and not ammunition.
That's not entirely fair to the mass-murdering old tyrant as I understand he asked the Russians and Iranians for the latter, but only the former was offered.
Of course I can see why. There wil lbe a lot of innocent victims of Assad in there. But there will also be lots of radicals and ISIS members. And I wonder what now happens to Shamima Begum
Whatever the duller people on here choose to believe, I am NOT @Shecorns88 - perhaps there is some way of the mods proving that
So stop being rude to her/him, this site needs new blood and @Shecorns88 brings an interesting, articulate and fresh point of view. Also, we need avowed Starmerites, there aren’t many wiling to put up a proper fight, and @Shecorns88 does
I just do not understand why some on here have suggested you are
Frankly, he/she comes over as a trainee labour intern who seems to shout a lot and uses swearing to try to justify himself/herself
It's striking how you and Leon both eschew full stops at the end of sentences.
🤔🤔🤔
If you look down the thread you will find this is becoming quite common (as I once predicted). Once you get used to it, then it feels and looks more elegant. The final period at the end of a statement which has obviously finished, anyway, is not needed
Generally not using full stops, at the end of utterances, also means you have the choice to add one for extra effect if you want to be emphatic or otherwise mark out a sentence or phrase
Just. Accept. It.
What, so you're denying that you are BigG and BigG is you?
Obviously not the most-read article on the Spectator, that has remained the same for the last 72 hours, but still good. It hints that the Syrian drama may actually menace the Tehran regime in the end (emphasis on “may”)
If the toppling of Assad really does lead to the end of the hideous Iranian regime then I will genuinely celebrate, as that would be an uncontestable victory for humanity
Less likely, as Assad was a Shia leader in a majority Sunni nation (as Saddam on the other side was a Sunni leader in a majority Shia nation). The Iranian regime though are Shia leaders of a majority Shia nation
You make the facile assumption that for most people, religion matters more than other matters in life.
You make that assumption because you are a religious fundamentalist.
In the Middle East it does, whether you are a Shia Muslim or Sunni Muslim (or in relation to Israel a Jew) matters far more than whether you want a socialist or capitalist run economy or even the nation state
You see, you are seeing this from the perspective of a religious bigot.
Most people are not religious bigots, even in the ME.
That is your mistake.
Yes most people in the ME are flocking to gay pride parades, women wandering around the streets in very little with the authorities not batting an eye lid. They certainly don't have public beheadings, floggings or public hangings in half the ME nations either. Oh wait...
You are mistaking the people with the regimes. A mistake Assad has made over the last couple of decades.
Assad was toppled because he was a Shia dictator in a majority Sunni nation. Not because he wasn't pro LGBT enough or too socially conservative and there weren't enough women in his regime.
In reality Assad was relatively secular in ME terms, the rebels who have toppled his regime are rather more rigorous in their following of the Koran than he is
Assad is an Alawite, which is a very specific sect: they believe in a form of Trinity and consecrate wine in their ceremonies- It is a fascinating and little understood group unique to the Levant. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alawites
A friend of mine did much research on them and found them an endless source of fascination.
That’s fascinating. I had no idea they were so exotic
Notable that they are thought to derive, in part, from Sinjar province in Iraq. That’s also the home of the Yazidi….
"In the end, there was very little to Merkel-worship. Just a vague sense that she was a nice person and — crucially — that conservatives disliked her. Puddle-deep and tribal: the cult of Merkel was modern liberalism at its worst."
Janan Ganesh on the Merkel-Anbeter, and her new book.
"For a sense of the tribal shallowness that can overcome smart people, remember that Brits who hated “austerity” swore by this fiscal hawk. Not only did the tension not bother them, I’m not sure it occurred to them in the first place. What mattered was that Merkel, in some ineffable way, seemed to be on the right team. From there, the rest could be backfilled. Her policies? Her track record of judgment? Such a bore."
I didn't particularly like Angela Merkel (although I always liked her kind face) until she made that brave and humane decision to let 1m refugees into Germany. After that I very much did and I still do. Of course this is not to say she didn't make some big mistakes. All big political figures make big mistakes. It comes with the territory. And people can debate that if they are so inclined.
Would Merkel erase her credit with you if she now came out in favour of repatriating the asylum seekers she let in?
Yes that would deplete her account with me.
She hasn't, has she?
Not yet, but it could happen. Why is providing temporary refuge not enough for you?
I think we can defer the crossing of this bridge until we come to it which in all likelihood we never will.
Whatever the duller people on here choose to believe, I am NOT @Shecorns88 - perhaps there is some way of the mods proving that
So stop being rude to her/him, this site needs new blood and @Shecorns88 brings an interesting, articulate and fresh point of view. Also, we need avowed Starmerites, there aren’t many wiling to put up a proper fight, and @Shecorns88 does
I just do not understand why some on here have suggested you are
Frankly, he/she comes over as a trainee labour intern who seems to shout a lot and uses swearing to try to justify himself/herself
It's striking how you and Leon both eschew full stops at the end of sentences.
🤔🤔🤔
If you look down the thread you will find this is becoming quite common (as I once predicted). Once you get used to it, then it feels and looks more elegant. The final period at the end of a statement which has obviously finished, anyway, is not needed
Generally not using full stops, at the end of utterances, also means you have the choice to add one for extra effect if you want to be emphatic or otherwise mark out a sentence or phrase
Just. Accept. It.
What, so you're denying that you are BigG and BigG is you?
Hmm, ok. But Mandy Rice Davies applies
What on earth
@Leon and I have travelled the world extensively [ not together ] over the years but we most definitely do not have any other connections
Reminder that @HYUFD was certain that the majority Alawite coastal region of Syria was going to fight until the bitter end and refused to entertain any suggestion otherwise. They didn’t.
Of course I can see why. There wil lbe a lot of innocent victims of Assad in there. But there will also be lots of radicals and ISIS members. And I wonder what now happens to Shamima Begum
Reminder that HYUFD was certain that the majority Alawite coastal region of Syria was going to fight until the bitter end and refused to entertain any suggestion otherwise. They didn’t.
HYUFD was certain about something? Sounds a bit out of character to me.
Whatever the duller people on here choose to believe, I am NOT @Shecorns88 - perhaps there is some way of the mods proving that
So stop being rude to her/him, this site needs new blood and @Shecorns88 brings an interesting, articulate and fresh point of view. Also, we need avowed Starmerites, there aren’t many wiling to put up a proper fight, and @Shecorns88 does
I just do not understand why some on here have suggested you are
Frankly, he/she comes over as a trainee labour intern who seems to shout a lot and uses swearing to try to justify himself/herself
It's striking how you and Leon both eschew full stops at the end of sentences.
🤔🤔🤔
If you look down the thread you will find this is becoming quite common (as I once predicted). Once you get used to it, then it feels and looks more elegant. The final period at the end of a statement which has obviously finished, anyway, is not needed
Generally not using full stops, at the end of utterances, also means you have the choice to add one for extra effect if you want to be emphatic or otherwise mark out a sentence or phrase
Just. Accept. It.
What, so you're denying that you are BigG and BigG is you?
Hmm, ok. But Mandy Rice Davies applies
What on earth
@Leon and I have travelled the world extensively [ not together ] over the years but we most definitely do not have any other connections
You've probably bumped into each other though. All that gadding about. Odds say you have.
Whatever the duller people on here choose to believe, I am NOT @Shecorns88 - perhaps there is some way of the mods proving that
So stop being rude to her/him, this site needs new blood and @Shecorns88 brings an interesting, articulate and fresh point of view. Also, we need avowed Starmerites, there aren’t many wiling to put up a proper fight, and @Shecorns88 does
I just do not understand why some on here have suggested you are
Frankly, he/she comes over as a trainee labour intern who seems to shout a lot and uses swearing to try to justify himself/herself
It's striking how you and Leon both eschew full stops at the end of sentences.
🤔🤔🤔
If you look down the thread you will find this is becoming quite common (as I once predicted). Once you get used to it, then it feels and looks more elegant. The final period at the end of a statement which has obviously finished, anyway, is not needed
Generally not using full stops, at the end of utterances, also means you have the choice to add one for extra effect if you want to be emphatic or otherwise mark out a sentence or phrase
Just. Accept. It.
What, so you're denying that you are BigG and BigG is you?
Hmm, ok. But Mandy Rice Davies applies
What on earth
@Leon and I have travelled the world extensively [ not together ] over the years but we most definitely do not have any other connections
Obviously not the most-read article on the Spectator, that has remained the same for the last 72 hours, but still good. It hints that the Syrian drama may actually menace the Tehran regime in the end (emphasis on “may”)
If the toppling of Assad really does lead to the end of the hideous Iranian regime then I will genuinely celebrate, as that would be an uncontestable victory for humanity
Less likely, as Assad was a Shia leader in a majority Sunni nation (as Saddam on the other side was a Sunni leader in a majority Shia nation). The Iranian regime though are Shia leaders of a majority Shia nation
You make the facile assumption that for most people, religion matters more than other matters in life.
You make that assumption because you are a religious fundamentalist.
In the Middle East it does, whether you are a Shia Muslim or Sunni Muslim (or in relation to Israel a Jew) matters far more than whether you want a socialist or capitalist run economy or even the nation state
You see, you are seeing this from the perspective of a religious bigot.
Most people are not religious bigots, even in the ME.
That is your mistake.
Yes most people in the ME are flocking to gay pride parades, women wandering around the streets in very little with the authorities not batting an eye lid. They certainly don't have public beheadings, floggings or public hangings in half the ME nations either. Oh wait...
You are mistaking the people with the regimes. A mistake Assad has made over the last couple of decades.
Assad was toppled because he was a Shia dictator in a majority Sunni nation. Not because he wasn't pro LGBT enough or too socially conservative and there weren't enough women in his regime.
In reality Assad was relatively secular in ME terms, the rebels who have toppled his regime are rather more rigorous in their following of the Koran than he is
Assad was toppled for many reasons. Because you are a religious bigot, you view events through a religious prism.
You don't care for the tens of thousands he held in prisons without trial *before* the civil war started in 2011. In your mind, they are irrelevant to people's motivations. Ditto other matters. For you, religion is paramount.
I'd argue the motivations of most people are much wider than the religious viewpoint you aspire to.
You are entirely wrong on this, @HYUFD is a believer. Because of that he is able to understand the religious mindset whereas you, a non-believer (IIRC) cannot
For many people religion is not some pleasant add-on, a collection of social rituals, and it is nothing like a political opinion or a tribal affiliation. It goes to the very core of their being, such that they will endure poverty, suffering, adversity, if they are still allowed to believe and worship (if the choice is that stark), indeed some are willing to die for their faith. This may seem so weird to you that you cannot comprehend it, but it shouldn’t be so. The west was like this until the Enlightenment, hence the wars of religion, the burning of martyrs, and so forth
Islam has not had “an Enlightenment” so very many Muslims still believe in the way that Christians believed up until the late 17th century: their religion is bound up with their identity, it gives their life purpose and meaning, going without it would be unbearably painful
The inability of westerners to “get” Islam, in this manner, is at the root of many of our problems with the MENA
A couple of qualifications. In suspect that the great majority of ordinary people, even in pre enlightenment times would have no interest at all in killing others for the faith, even many of those willing to be killed. But I am pretty sure most wanted neither but for particular reasons are less well heard by history.
Secondly, an interesting feature on the whole of pre Constantinian Christianity (up to early 4th century) is that is seems to have little record of killing for its principles. This accords well with the tone and direction of the New Testament. It is possible then and now for religion and identity to be utterly bound together as the core of your being but have no desire for this to be a ground for killing or being killed.
Whatever the duller people on here choose to believe, I am NOT @Shecorns88 - perhaps there is some way of the mods proving that
So stop being rude to her/him, this site needs new blood and @Shecorns88 brings an interesting, articulate and fresh point of view. Also, we need avowed Starmerites, there aren’t many wiling to put up a proper fight, and @Shecorns88 does
I just do not understand why some on here have suggested you are
Frankly, he/she comes over as a trainee labour intern who seems to shout a lot and uses swearing to try to justify himself/herself
It's striking how you and Leon both eschew full stops at the end of sentences.
🤔🤔🤔
If you look down the thread you will find this is becoming quite common (as I once predicted). Once you get used to it, then it feels and looks more elegant. The final period at the end of a statement which has obviously finished, anyway, is not needed
Generally not using full stops, at the end of utterances, also means you have the choice to add one for extra effect if you want to be emphatic or otherwise mark out a sentence or phrase
Just. Accept. It.
What, so you're denying that you are BigG and BigG is you?
Hmm, ok. But Mandy Rice Davies applies
What on earth
@Leon and I have travelled the world extensively [ not together ] over the years but we most definitely do not have any other connections
OK this is now objectively VERY WEIRD and also hugely entertaining
“Swarms of large drones, some described as big as cars, are flying over neighborhoods in New Jersey and New York. One even flew over a meeting of Pentagon leaders in California. NBC News' George Solis has the latest.”
What the F is going on
This is not “misidentified planes, or a kid with a toy”
Obviously not the most-read article on the Spectator, that has remained the same for the last 72 hours, but still good. It hints that the Syrian drama may actually menace the Tehran regime in the end (emphasis on “may”)
If the toppling of Assad really does lead to the end of the hideous Iranian regime then I will genuinely celebrate, as that would be an uncontestable victory for humanity
Less likely, as Assad was a Shia leader in a majority Sunni nation (as Saddam on the other side was a Sunni leader in a majority Shia nation). The Iranian regime though are Shia leaders of a majority Shia nation
You make the facile assumption that for most people, religion matters more than other matters in life.
You make that assumption because you are a religious fundamentalist.
In the Middle East it does, whether you are a Shia Muslim or Sunni Muslim (or in relation to Israel a Jew) matters far more than whether you want a socialist or capitalist run economy or even the nation state
You see, you are seeing this from the perspective of a religious bigot.
Most people are not religious bigots, even in the ME.
That is your mistake.
Yes most people in the ME are flocking to gay pride parades, women wandering around the streets in very little with the authorities not batting an eye lid. They certainly don't have public beheadings, floggings or public hangings in half the ME nations either. Oh wait...
You are mistaking the people with the regimes. A mistake Assad has made over the last couple of decades.
Assad was toppled because he was a Shia dictator in a majority Sunni nation. Not because he wasn't pro LGBT enough or too socially conservative and there weren't enough women in his regime.
In reality Assad was relatively secular in ME terms, the rebels who have toppled his regime are rather more rigorous in their following of the Koran than he is
Assad was toppled for many reasons. Because you are a religious bigot, you view events through a religious prism.
You don't care for the tens of thousands he held in prisons without trial *before* the civil war started in 2011. In your mind, they are irrelevant to people's motivations. Ditto other matters. For you, religion is paramount.
I'd argue the motivations of most people are much wider than the religious viewpoint you aspire to.
You are entirely wrong on this, @HYUFD is a believer. Because of that he is able to understand the religious mindset whereas you, a non-believer (IIRC) cannot
For many people religion is not some pleasant add-on, a collection of social rituals, and it is nothing like a political opinion or a tribal affiliation. It goes to the very core of their being, such that they will endure poverty, suffering, adversity, if they are still allowed to believe and worship (if the choice is that stark), indeed some are willing to die for their faith. This may seem so weird to you that you cannot comprehend it, but it shouldn’t be so. The west was like this until the Enlightenment, hence the wars of religion, the burning of martyrs, and so forth
Islam has not had “an Enlightenment” so very many Muslims still believe in the way that Christians believed up until the late 17th century: their religion is bound up with their identity, it gives their life purpose and meaning, going without it would be unbearably painful
The inability of westerners to “get” Islam, in this manner, is at the root of many of our problems with the MENA
"whereas you, a non-believer (IIRC) cannot"
I am agnostic, not atheist. Which adds a certain complexity to your argument.
If someone 'believed' they should murder all sinister people (left-handers...), I would be aghast. Even as a right-hander.
So whilst someone like HYUFD might have their 'religious' beliefs down to their core, it does not make them right. And it gives them no right to force their beliefs on others. which is the way religions have kept check on societies in the past, and which is increasingly hard in a modern society. Which is why Latin was used for bibles in the Middle Ages - control.
HYUFD sees women as second-class citizens, who should not work and be baby-bearers. In that attitude, he is not so far away from the Muslim fanatics he hates. He is as much a religious bigot as they are, kept in check by social mores in this country.
I am married to someone raised as a Muslim. As such, I think I 'understand' Islam better than an out-and-out hater such as you. It has many attractive aspects; but as with all religions, the adherents turn what should be good into something that can be very, very bad. Like communism it is good in theory. In practice, it is terrible.
Obviously not the most-read article on the Spectator, that has remained the same for the last 72 hours, but still good. It hints that the Syrian drama may actually menace the Tehran regime in the end (emphasis on “may”)
If the toppling of Assad really does lead to the end of the hideous Iranian regime then I will genuinely celebrate, as that would be an uncontestable victory for humanity
Less likely, as Assad was a Shia leader in a majority Sunni nation (as Saddam on the other side was a Sunni leader in a majority Shia nation). The Iranian regime though are Shia leaders of a majority Shia nation
You make the facile assumption that for most people, religion matters more than other matters in life.
You make that assumption because you are a religious fundamentalist.
In the Middle East it does, whether you are a Shia Muslim or Sunni Muslim (or in relation to Israel a Jew) matters far more than whether you want a socialist or capitalist run economy or even the nation state
You see, you are seeing this from the perspective of a religious bigot.
Most people are not religious bigots, even in the ME.
That is your mistake.
Yes most people in the ME are flocking to gay pride parades, women wandering around the streets in very little with the authorities not batting an eye lid. They certainly don't have public beheadings, floggings or public hangings in half the ME nations either. Oh wait...
You are mistaking the people with the regimes. A mistake Assad has made over the last couple of decades.
Assad was toppled because he was a Shia dictator in a majority Sunni nation. Not because he wasn't pro LGBT enough or too socially conservative and there weren't enough women in his regime.
In reality Assad was relatively secular in ME terms, the rebels who have toppled his regime are rather more rigorous in their following of the Koran than he is
Assad was toppled for many reasons. Because you are a religious bigot, you view events through a religious prism.
You don't care for the tens of thousands he held in prisons without trial *before* the civil war started in 2011. In your mind, they are irrelevant to people's motivations. Ditto other matters. For you, religion is paramount.
I'd argue the motivations of most people are much wider than the religious viewpoint you aspire to.
You are entirely wrong on this, @HYUFD is a believer. Because of that he is able to understand the religious mindset whereas you, a non-believer (IIRC) cannot
For many people religion is not some pleasant add-on, a collection of social rituals, and it is nothing like a political opinion or a tribal affiliation. It goes to the very core of their being, such that they will endure poverty, suffering, adversity, if they are still allowed to believe and worship (if the choice is that stark), indeed some are willing to die for their faith. This may seem so weird to you that you cannot comprehend it, but it shouldn’t be so. The west was like this until the Enlightenment, hence the wars of religion, the burning of martyrs, and so forth
Islam has not had “an Enlightenment” so very many Muslims still believe in the way that Christians believed up until the late 17th century: their religion is bound up with their identity, it gives their life purpose and meaning, going without it would be unbearably painful
The inability of westerners to “get” Islam, in this manner, is at the root of many of our problems with the MENA
A couple of qualifications. In suspect that the great majority of ordinary people, even in pre enlightenment times would have no interest at all in killing others for the faith, even many of those willing to be killed. But I am pretty sure most wanted neither but for particular reasons are less well heard by history.
Secondly, an interesting feature on the whole of pre Constantinian Christianity (up to early 4th century) is that is seems to have little record of killing for its principles. This accords well with the tone and direction of the New Testament. It is possible then and now for religion and identity to be utterly bound together as the core of your being but have no desire for this to be a ground for killing or being killed.
You can have strong faith, but not wish to inflict your faith on others.
Whatever the duller people on here choose to believe, I am NOT @Shecorns88 - perhaps there is some way of the mods proving that
So stop being rude to her/him, this site needs new blood and @Shecorns88 brings an interesting, articulate and fresh point of view. Also, we need avowed Starmerites, there aren’t many wiling to put up a proper fight, and @Shecorns88 does
I just do not understand why some on here have suggested you are
Frankly, he/she comes over as a trainee labour intern who seems to shout a lot and uses swearing to try to justify himself/herself
It's striking how you and Leon both eschew full stops at the end of sentences.
🤔🤔🤔
If you look down the thread you will find this is becoming quite common (as I once predicted). Once you get used to it, then it feels and looks more elegant. The final period at the end of a statement which has obviously finished, anyway, is not needed
Generally not using full stops, at the end of utterances, also means you have the choice to add one for extra effect if you want to be emphatic or otherwise mark out a sentence or phrase
Just. Accept. It.
What, so you're denying that you are BigG and BigG is you?
Hmm, ok. But Mandy Rice Davies applies
What on earth
@Leon and I have travelled the world extensively [ not together ] over the years but we most definitely do not have any other connections
You've probably bumped into each other though. All that gadding about. Odds say you have.
A decade ago, I was in contact with another coastal walker I've never met. It turned out we both 'collected' trig pillars, and we had both been at the same trig pillar in Wales within an hour or so of each other, yet never met.
We still haven't, but his travels are far more entertaining than @Leon's...
Whatever the duller people on here choose to believe, I am NOT @Shecorns88 - perhaps there is some way of the mods proving that
So stop being rude to her/him, this site needs new blood and @Shecorns88 brings an interesting, articulate and fresh point of view. Also, we need avowed Starmerites, there aren’t many wiling to put up a proper fight, and @Shecorns88 does
I just do not understand why some on here have suggested you are
Frankly, he/she comes over as a trainee labour intern who seems to shout a lot and uses swearing to try to justify himself/herself
It's striking how you and Leon both eschew full stops at the end of sentences.
🤔🤔🤔
If you look down the thread you will find this is becoming quite common (as I once predicted). Once you get used to it, then it feels and looks more elegant. The final period at the end of a statement which has obviously finished, anyway, is not needed
Generally not using full stops, at the end of utterances, also means you have the choice to add one for extra effect if you want to be emphatic or otherwise mark out a sentence or phrase
Just. Accept. It.
What, so you're denying that you are BigG and BigG is you?
Hmm, ok. But Mandy Rice Davies applies
What on earth
@Leon and I have travelled the world extensively [ not together ] over the years but we most definitely do not have any other connections
Obviously not the most-read article on the Spectator, that has remained the same for the last 72 hours, but still good. It hints that the Syrian drama may actually menace the Tehran regime in the end (emphasis on “may”)
If the toppling of Assad really does lead to the end of the hideous Iranian regime then I will genuinely celebrate, as that would be an uncontestable victory for humanity
Less likely, as Assad was a Shia leader in a majority Sunni nation (as Saddam on the other side was a Sunni leader in a majority Shia nation). The Iranian regime though are Shia leaders of a majority Shia nation
You make the facile assumption that for most people, religion matters more than other matters in life.
You make that assumption because you are a religious fundamentalist.
In the Middle East it does, whether you are a Shia Muslim or Sunni Muslim (or in relation to Israel a Jew) matters far more than whether you want a socialist or capitalist run economy or even the nation state
You see, you are seeing this from the perspective of a religious bigot.
Most people are not religious bigots, even in the ME.
That is your mistake.
Yes most people in the ME are flocking to gay pride parades, women wandering around the streets in very little with the authorities not batting an eye lid. They certainly don't have public beheadings, floggings or public hangings in half the ME nations either. Oh wait...
You are mistaking the people with the regimes. A mistake Assad has made over the last couple of decades.
Assad was toppled because he was a Shia dictator in a majority Sunni nation. Not because he wasn't pro LGBT enough or too socially conservative and there weren't enough women in his regime.
In reality Assad was relatively secular in ME terms, the rebels who have toppled his regime are rather more rigorous in their following of the Koran than he is
Assad was toppled for many reasons. Because you are a religious bigot, you view events through a religious prism.
You don't care for the tens of thousands he held in prisons without trial *before* the civil war started in 2011. In your mind, they are irrelevant to people's motivations. Ditto other matters. For you, religion is paramount.
I'd argue the motivations of most people are much wider than the religious viewpoint you aspire to.
You are entirely wrong on this, @HYUFD is a believer. Because of that he is able to understand the religious mindset whereas you, a non-believer (IIRC) cannot
For many people religion is not some pleasant add-on, a collection of social rituals, and it is nothing like a political opinion or a tribal affiliation. It goes to the very core of their being, such that they will endure poverty, suffering, adversity, if they are still allowed to believe and worship (if the choice is that stark), indeed some are willing to die for their faith. This may seem so weird to you that you cannot comprehend it, but it shouldn’t be so. The west was like this until the Enlightenment, hence the wars of religion, the burning of martyrs, and so forth
Islam has not had “an Enlightenment” so very many Muslims still believe in the way that Christians believed up until the late 17th century: their religion is bound up with their identity, it gives their life purpose and meaning, going without it would be unbearably painful
The inability of westerners to “get” Islam, in this manner, is at the root of many of our problems with the MENA
"whereas you, a non-believer (IIRC) cannot"
I am agnostic, not atheist. Which adds a certain complexity to your argument.
If someone 'believed' they should murder all sinister people (left-handers...), I would be aghast. Even as a right-hander.
So whilst someone like HYUFD might have their 'religious' beliefs down to their core, it does not make them right. And it gives them no right to force their beliefs on others. which is the way religions have kept check on societies in the past, and which is increasingly hard in a modern society. Which is why Latin was used for bibles in the Middle Ages - control.
HYUFD sees women as second-class citizens, who should not work and be baby-bearers. In that attitude, he is not so far away from the Muslim fanatics he hates. He is as much a religious bigot as they are, kept in check by social mores in this country.
I am married to someone raised as a Muslim. As such, I think I 'understand' Islam better than an out-and-out hater such as you. It has many attractive aspects; but as with all religions, the adherents turn what should be good into something that can be very, very bad. Like communism it is good in theory. In practice, it is terrible.
Can’t even be bothered addressing such an intellectually mediocre take
Reminder that @HYUFD was certain that the majority Alawite coastal region of Syria was going to fight until the bitter end and refused to entertain any suggestion otherwise. They didn’t.
Well Latakia and Tartus, the 2 biggest cities in the coastal Alawite heartland of Syria, have still not yet fallen to the rebels.
Assuming they and the rest of the coastal region where the Alawites are based falls who knows what reprisals the rebels will then ultimately pursue against the Alawites and their links to the Assad family
What America, Britain or France need to say is: "Hey! That lovely base in Tartus, it might be really good for us. Whatever Russia's offering you, here's a little more..."
Obviously not the most-read article on the Spectator, that has remained the same for the last 72 hours, but still good. It hints that the Syrian drama may actually menace the Tehran regime in the end (emphasis on “may”)
If the toppling of Assad really does lead to the end of the hideous Iranian regime then I will genuinely celebrate, as that would be an uncontestable victory for humanity
Less likely, as Assad was a Shia leader in a majority Sunni nation (as Saddam on the other side was a Sunni leader in a majority Shia nation). The Iranian regime though are Shia leaders of a majority Shia nation
You make the facile assumption that for most people, religion matters more than other matters in life.
You make that assumption because you are a religious fundamentalist.
In the Middle East it does, whether you are a Shia Muslim or Sunni Muslim (or in relation to Israel a Jew) matters far more than whether you want a socialist or capitalist run economy or even the nation state
You see, you are seeing this from the perspective of a religious bigot.
Most people are not religious bigots, even in the ME.
That is your mistake.
Yes most people in the ME are flocking to gay pride parades, women wandering around the streets in very little with the authorities not batting an eye lid. They certainly don't have public beheadings, floggings or public hangings in half the ME nations either. Oh wait...
You are mistaking the people with the regimes. A mistake Assad has made over the last couple of decades.
Assad was toppled because he was a Shia dictator in a majority Sunni nation. Not because he wasn't pro LGBT enough or too socially conservative and there weren't enough women in his regime.
In reality Assad was relatively secular in ME terms, the rebels who have toppled his regime are rather more rigorous in their following of the Koran than he is
Assad was toppled for many reasons. Because you are a religious bigot, you view events through a religious prism.
You don't care for the tens of thousands he held in prisons without trial *before* the civil war started in 2011. In your mind, they are irrelevant to people's motivations. Ditto other matters. For you, religion is paramount.
I'd argue the motivations of most people are much wider than the religious viewpoint you aspire to.
You are entirely wrong on this, @HYUFD is a believer. Because of that he is able to understand the religious mindset whereas you, a non-believer (IIRC) cannot
For many people religion is not some pleasant add-on, a collection of social rituals, and it is nothing like a political opinion or a tribal affiliation. It goes to the very core of their being, such that they will endure poverty, suffering, adversity, if they are still allowed to believe and worship (if the choice is that stark), indeed some are willing to die for their faith. This may seem so weird to you that you cannot comprehend it, but it shouldn’t be so. The west was like this until the Enlightenment, hence the wars of religion, the burning of martyrs, and so forth
Islam has not had “an Enlightenment” so very many Muslims still believe in the way that Christians believed up until the late 17th century: their religion is bound up with their identity, it gives their life purpose and meaning, going without it would be unbearably painful
The inability of westerners to “get” Islam, in this manner, is at the root of many of our problems with the MENA
"whereas you, a non-believer (IIRC) cannot"
I am agnostic, not atheist. Which adds a certain complexity to your argument.
If someone 'believed' they should murder all sinister people (left-handers...), I would be aghast. Even as a right-hander.
So whilst someone like HYUFD might have their 'religious' beliefs down to their core, it does not make them right. And it gives them no right to force their beliefs on others. which is the way religions have kept check on societies in the past, and which is increasingly hard in a modern society. Which is why Latin was used for bibles in the Middle Ages - control.
HYUFD sees women as second-class citizens, who should not work and be baby-bearers. In that attitude, he is not so far away from the Muslim fanatics he hates. He is as much a religious bigot as they are, kept in check by social mores in this country.
I am married to someone raised as a Muslim. As such, I think I 'understand' Islam better than an out-and-out hater such as you. It has many attractive aspects; but as with all religions, the adherents turn what should be good into something that can be very, very bad. Like communism it is good in theory. In practice, it is terrible.
Can’t even be bothered addressing such an intellectually mediocre take
Obviously not the most-read article on the Spectator, that has remained the same for the last 72 hours, but still good. It hints that the Syrian drama may actually menace the Tehran regime in the end (emphasis on “may”)
If the toppling of Assad really does lead to the end of the hideous Iranian regime then I will genuinely celebrate, as that would be an uncontestable victory for humanity
Less likely, as Assad was a Shia leader in a majority Sunni nation (as Saddam on the other side was a Sunni leader in a majority Shia nation). The Iranian regime though are Shia leaders of a majority Shia nation
You make the facile assumption that for most people, religion matters more than other matters in life.
You make that assumption because you are a religious fundamentalist.
In the Middle East it does, whether you are a Shia Muslim or Sunni Muslim (or in relation to Israel a Jew) matters far more than whether you want a socialist or capitalist run economy or even the nation state
You see, you are seeing this from the perspective of a religious bigot.
Most people are not religious bigots, even in the ME.
That is your mistake.
Yes most people in the ME are flocking to gay pride parades, women wandering around the streets in very little with the authorities not batting an eye lid. They certainly don't have public beheadings, floggings or public hangings in half the ME nations either. Oh wait...
You are mistaking the people with the regimes. A mistake Assad has made over the last couple of decades.
Assad was toppled because he was a Shia dictator in a majority Sunni nation. Not because he wasn't pro LGBT enough or too socially conservative and there weren't enough women in his regime.
In reality Assad was relatively secular in ME terms, the rebels who have toppled his regime are rather more rigorous in their following of the Koran than he is
Assad was toppled for many reasons. Because you are a religious bigot, you view events through a religious prism.
You don't care for the tens of thousands he held in prisons without trial *before* the civil war started in 2011. In your mind, they are irrelevant to people's motivations. Ditto other matters. For you, religion is paramount.
I'd argue the motivations of most people are much wider than the religious viewpoint you aspire to.
You are entirely wrong on this, @HYUFD is a believer. Because of that he is able to understand the religious mindset whereas you, a non-believer (IIRC) cannot
For many people religion is not some pleasant add-on, a collection of social rituals, and it is nothing like a political opinion or a tribal affiliation. It goes to the very core of their being, such that they will endure poverty, suffering, adversity, if they are still allowed to believe and worship (if the choice is that stark), indeed some are willing to die for their faith. This may seem so weird to you that you cannot comprehend it, but it shouldn’t be so. The west was like this until the Enlightenment, hence the wars of religion, the burning of martyrs, and so forth
Islam has not had “an Enlightenment” so very many Muslims still believe in the way that Christians believed up until the late 17th century: their religion is bound up with their identity, it gives their life purpose and meaning, going without it would be unbearably painful
The inability of westerners to “get” Islam, in this manner, is at the root of many of our problems with the MENA
"whereas you, a non-believer (IIRC) cannot"
I am agnostic, not atheist. Which adds a certain complexity to your argument.
If someone 'believed' they should murder all sinister people (left-handers...), I would be aghast. Even as a right-hander.
So whilst someone like HYUFD might have their 'religious' beliefs down to their core, it does not make them right. And it gives them no right to force their beliefs on others. which is the way religions have kept check on societies in the past, and which is increasingly hard in a modern society. Which is why Latin was used for bibles in the Middle Ages - control.
HYUFD sees women as second-class citizens, who should not work and be baby-bearers. In that attitude, he is not so far away from the Muslim fanatics he hates. He is as much a religious bigot as they are, kept in check by social mores in this country.
I am married to someone raised as a Muslim. As such, I think I 'understand' Islam better than an out-and-out hater such as you. It has many attractive aspects; but as with all religions, the adherents turn what should be good into something that can be very, very bad. Like communism it is good in theory. In practice, it is terrible.
Can’t even be bothered addressing such an intellectually mediocre take
Please do; after all, people respond to you all the time...
Obviously not the most-read article on the Spectator, that has remained the same for the last 72 hours, but still good. It hints that the Syrian drama may actually menace the Tehran regime in the end (emphasis on “may”)
If the toppling of Assad really does lead to the end of the hideous Iranian regime then I will genuinely celebrate, as that would be an uncontestable victory for humanity
Less likely, as Assad was a Shia leader in a majority Sunni nation (as Saddam on the other side was a Sunni leader in a majority Shia nation). The Iranian regime though are Shia leaders of a majority Shia nation
You make the facile assumption that for most people, religion matters more than other matters in life.
You make that assumption because you are a religious fundamentalist.
In the Middle East it does, whether you are a Shia Muslim or Sunni Muslim (or in relation to Israel a Jew) matters far more than whether you want a socialist or capitalist run economy or even the nation state
You see, you are seeing this from the perspective of a religious bigot.
Most people are not religious bigots, even in the ME.
That is your mistake.
Yes most people in the ME are flocking to gay pride parades, women wandering around the streets in very little with the authorities not batting an eye lid. They certainly don't have public beheadings, floggings or public hangings in half the ME nations either. Oh wait...
You are mistaking the people with the regimes. A mistake Assad has made over the last couple of decades.
Assad was toppled because he was a Shia dictator in a majority Sunni nation. Not because he wasn't pro LGBT enough or too socially conservative and there weren't enough women in his regime.
In reality Assad was relatively secular in ME terms, the rebels who have toppled his regime are rather more rigorous in their following of the Koran than he is
Assad was toppled for many reasons. Because you are a religious bigot, you view events through a religious prism.
You don't care for the tens of thousands he held in prisons without trial *before* the civil war started in 2011. In your mind, they are irrelevant to people's motivations. Ditto other matters. For you, religion is paramount.
I'd argue the motivations of most people are much wider than the religious viewpoint you aspire to.
You are entirely wrong on this, @HYUFD is a believer. Because of that he is able to understand the religious mindset whereas you, a non-believer (IIRC) cannot
For many people religion is not some pleasant add-on, a collection of social rituals, and it is nothing like a political opinion or a tribal affiliation. It goes to the very core of their being, such that they will endure poverty, suffering, adversity, if they are still allowed to believe and worship (if the choice is that stark), indeed some are willing to die for their faith. This may seem so weird to you that you cannot comprehend it, but it shouldn’t be so. The west was like this until the Enlightenment, hence the wars of religion, the burning of martyrs, and so forth
Islam has not had “an Enlightenment” so very many Muslims still believe in the way that Christians believed up until the late 17th century: their religion is bound up with their identity, it gives their life purpose and meaning, going without it would be unbearably painful
The inability of westerners to “get” Islam, in this manner, is at the root of many of our problems with the MENA
"whereas you, a non-believer (IIRC) cannot"
I am agnostic, not atheist. Which adds a certain complexity to your argument.
If someone 'believed' they should murder all sinister people (left-handers...), I would be aghast. Even as a right-hander.
So whilst someone like HYUFD might have their 'religious' beliefs down to their core, it does not make them right. And it gives them no right to force their beliefs on others. which is the way religions have kept check on societies in the past, and which is increasingly hard in a modern society. Which is why Latin was used for bibles in the Middle Ages - control.
HYUFD sees women as second-class citizens, who should not work and be baby-bearers. In that attitude, he is not so far away from the Muslim fanatics he hates. He is as much a religious bigot as they are, kept in check by social mores in this country.
I am married to someone raised as a Muslim. As such, I think I 'understand' Islam better than an out-and-out hater such as you. It has many attractive aspects; but as with all religions, the adherents turn what should be good into something that can be very, very bad. Like communism it is good in theory. In practice, it is terrible.
Can’t even be bothered addressing such an intellectually mediocre take
Please do; after all, people respond to you all the time...
Reminder that @HYUFD was certain that the majority Alawite coastal region of Syria was going to fight until the bitter end and refused to entertain any suggestion otherwise. They didn’t.
Well Latakia and Tartus, the 2 biggest cities in the coastal Alawite heartland of Syria, have still not yet fallen to the rebels.
Assuming they and the rest of the coastal region where the Alawites are based falls who knows what reprisals the rebels will then ultimately pursue against the Alawites and their links to the Assad family
From "the Russians will bomb the rebel cowards" to "our small bases have not yet fallen!"
It's been quite a week for you, hasn't it? Wrong at every step.
What America, Britain or France need to say is: "Hey! That lovely base in Tartus, it might be really good for us. Whatever Russia's offering you, here's a little more..."
The USA is being swarmed by large numbers of CAR SIZED DRONES THAT NO ONE CAN UNDERSTAND
They have now been filmed and witnessed by hundreds if not thousands of people. There are now quite clear images
The USA - the USA! - seems at a loss. No one can explain them. I’m starting to wonder if this is connected with THE MASSIVE FUCKING OWL I saw, inexplicably, in the centre of Santa Cruz de Mompox - it would finally make sense
So what are they?
i see five explanations
1. This is a mass hallucination (across the USA and in the UK?) 2. This is American psy-ops to hide American super-tech 3. This is the Russians or the Chinese 4. This is some non state actor (criminal gangs? Elon Musk??) with amazing tech doing something we don’t understand 5. This is of non human origin
What America, Britain or France need to say is: "Hey! That lovely base in Tartus, it might be really good for us. Whatever Russia's offering you, here's a little more..."
Of course I can see why. There wil lbe a lot of innocent victims of Assad in there. But there will also be lots of radicals and ISIS members. And I wonder what now happens to Shamima Begum
Isn't Begum held by the Kurds?
I expect nothing changes for her.
She is. Send her to the Hague to answer for her war crimes.
Reminder that @HYUFD was certain that the majority Alawite coastal region of Syria was going to fight until the bitter end and refused to entertain any suggestion otherwise. They didn’t.
Well Latakia and Tartus, the 2 biggest cities in the coastal Alawite heartland of Syria, have still not yet fallen to the rebels.
Assuming they and the rest of the coastal region where the Alawites are based falls who knows what reprisals the rebels will then ultimately pursue against the Alawites and their links to the Assad family
Yes they have. Rebels are in both of those places and statues have even been pulled down
The USA is being swarmed by large numbers of CAR SIZED DRONES THAT NO ONE CAN UNDERSTAND
They have now been filmed and witnessed by hundreds if not thousands of people. There are now quite clear images
The USA - the USA! - seems at a loss. No one can explain them. I’m starting to wonder if this is connected with THE MASSIVE FUCKING OWL I saw, inexplicably, in the centre of Santa Cruz de Mompox - it would finally make sense
So what are they?
i see five explanations
1. This is a mass hallucination (across the USA and in the UK?) 2. This is American psy-ops to hide American super-tech 3. This is the Russians or the Chinese 4. This is some non state actor (criminal gangs? Elon Musk??) with amazing tech doing something we don’t understand 5. This is of non human origin
Does dragging the outline of a story through AI to try and make it sound vaguely plausible count as number 5?
The USA is being swarmed by large numbers of CAR SIZED DRONES THAT NO ONE CAN UNDERSTAND
They have now been filmed and witnessed by hundreds if not thousands of people. There are now quite clear images
The USA - the USA! - seems at a loss. No one can explain them. I’m starting to wonder if this is connected with THE MASSIVE FUCKING OWL I saw, inexplicably, in the centre of Santa Cruz de Mompox - it would finally make sense
So what are they?
i see five explanations
1. This is a mass hallucination (across the USA and in the UK?) 2. This is American psy-ops to hide American super-tech 3. This is the Russians or the Chinese 4. This is some non state actor (criminal gangs? Elon Musk??) with amazing tech doing something we don’t understand 5. This is of non human origin
How do you know these drones are 'car sized'? The size of distant objects are very hard to discern, especially for high-IQ individuals like Father Dougal.
What America, Britain or France need to say is: "Hey! That lovely base in Tartus, it might be really good for us. Whatever Russia's offering you, here's a little more..."
Obviously not the most-read article on the Spectator, that has remained the same for the last 72 hours, but still good. It hints that the Syrian drama may actually menace the Tehran regime in the end (emphasis on “may”)
If the toppling of Assad really does lead to the end of the hideous Iranian regime then I will genuinely celebrate, as that would be an uncontestable victory for humanity
Less likely, as Assad was a Shia leader in a majority Sunni nation (as Saddam on the other side was a Sunni leader in a majority Shia nation). The Iranian regime though are Shia leaders of a majority Shia nation
You make the facile assumption that for most people, religion matters more than other matters in life.
You make that assumption because you are a religious fundamentalist.
In the Middle East it does, whether you are a Shia Muslim or Sunni Muslim (or in relation to Israel a Jew) matters far more than whether you want a socialist or capitalist run economy or even the nation state
You see, you are seeing this from the perspective of a religious bigot.
Most people are not religious bigots, even in the ME.
That is your mistake.
Yes most people in the ME are flocking to gay pride parades, women wandering around the streets in very little with the authorities not batting an eye lid. They certainly don't have public beheadings, floggings or public hangings in half the ME nations either. Oh wait...
You are mistaking the people with the regimes. A mistake Assad has made over the last couple of decades.
Assad was toppled because he was a Shia dictator in a majority Sunni nation. Not because he wasn't pro LGBT enough or too socially conservative and there weren't enough women in his regime.
In reality Assad was relatively secular in ME terms, the rebels who have toppled his regime are rather more rigorous in their following of the Koran than he is
Assad was toppled for many reasons. Because you are a religious bigot, you view events through a religious prism.
You don't care for the tens of thousands he held in prisons without trial *before* the civil war started in 2011. In your mind, they are irrelevant to people's motivations. Ditto other matters. For you, religion is paramount.
I'd argue the motivations of most people are much wider than the religious viewpoint you aspire to.
You are entirely wrong on this, @HYUFD is a believer. Because of that he is able to understand the religious mindset whereas you, a non-believer (IIRC) cannot
For many people religion is not some pleasant add-on, a collection of social rituals, and it is nothing like a political opinion or a tribal affiliation. It goes to the very core of their being, such that they will endure poverty, suffering, adversity, if they are still allowed to believe and worship (if the choice is that stark), indeed some are willing to die for their faith. This may seem so weird to you that you cannot comprehend it, but it shouldn’t be so. The west was like this until the Enlightenment, hence the wars of religion, the burning of martyrs, and so forth
Islam has not had “an Enlightenment” so very many Muslims still believe in the way that Christians believed up until the late 17th century: their religion is bound up with their identity, it gives their life purpose and meaning, going without it would be unbearably painful
The inability of westerners to “get” Islam, in this manner, is at the root of many of our problems with the MENA
"whereas you, a non-believer (IIRC) cannot"
I am agnostic, not atheist. Which adds a certain complexity to your argument.
If someone 'believed' they should murder all sinister people (left-handers...), I would be aghast. Even as a right-hander.
So whilst someone like HYUFD might have their 'religious' beliefs down to their core, it does not make them right. And it gives them no right to force their beliefs on others. which is the way religions have kept check on societies in the past, and which is increasingly hard in a modern society. Which is why Latin was used for bibles in the Middle Ages - control.
HYUFD sees women as second-class citizens, who should not work and be baby-bearers. In that attitude, he is not so far away from the Muslim fanatics he hates. He is as much a religious bigot as they are, kept in check by social mores in this country.
I am married to someone raised as a Muslim. As such, I think I 'understand' Islam better than an out-and-out hater such as you. It has many attractive aspects; but as with all religions, the adherents turn what should be good into something that can be very, very bad. Like communism it is good in theory. In practice, it is terrible.
"I put no stock in religion. By the word religion I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called the will of god. Holiness is in right action, and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves, and goodness."
Since I've had my heating on again, I haven't turned the thermostat higher than 18⁰C
It's reached 18 once; I turn it down to 12 when I go to work and 15 when I go to bed
I did the same before it all got more expensive
What temperatures do you do?
I'm on 18, but I have had to turn it up to 19 at the weekend if I have been at home for lengthy periods. I have noticed that 18 with the radiators on feels warmer than 19 without them on, as you get the radiated heat from the radiators.
When I am at work, and overnight (9pm to about 6am) the heating is off.
Reminder that @HYUFD was certain that the majority Alawite coastal region of Syria was going to fight until the bitter end and refused to entertain any suggestion otherwise. They didn’t.
Well Latakia and Tartus, the 2 biggest cities in the coastal Alawite heartland of Syria, have still not yet fallen to the rebels.
Assuming they and the rest of the coastal region where the Alawites are based falls who knows what reprisals the rebels will then ultimately pursue against the Alawites and their links to the Assad family
Yes they have. Rebels are in both of those places and statues have even been pulled down
No they haven't. A few statues pulled down by non Alawites there means nothing.
What America, Britain or France need to say is: "Hey! That lovely base in Tartus, it might be really good for us. Whatever Russia's offering you, here's a little more..."
But we shouldn’t have done this with Assad?
Why are you asking another question?
You are advocating cutting deals with unsavoury people in pursuit of our interests which seems to be a departure from your previous position.
The USA is being swarmed by large numbers of CAR SIZED DRONES THAT NO ONE CAN UNDERSTAND
They have now been filmed and witnessed by hundreds if not thousands of people. There are now quite clear images
The USA - the USA! - seems at a loss. No one can explain them. I’m starting to wonder if this is connected with THE MASSIVE FUCKING OWL I saw, inexplicably, in the centre of Santa Cruz de Mompox - it would finally make sense
So what are they?
i see five explanations
1. This is a mass hallucination (across the USA and in the UK?) 2. This is American psy-ops to hide American super-tech 3. This is the Russians or the Chinese 4. This is some non state actor (criminal gangs? Elon Musk??) with amazing tech doing something we don’t understand 5. This is of non human origin
How do you know these drones are 'car sized'? The size of distant objects are very hard to discern, especially for high-IQ individuals like Father Dougal.
Reminder that @HYUFD was certain that the majority Alawite coastal region of Syria was going to fight until the bitter end and refused to entertain any suggestion otherwise. They didn’t.
Well Latakia and Tartus, the 2 biggest cities in the coastal Alawite heartland of Syria, have still not yet fallen to the rebels.
Assuming they and the rest of the coastal region where the Alawites are based falls who knows what reprisals the rebels will then ultimately pursue against the Alawites and their links to the Assad family
From "the Russians will bomb the rebel cowards" to "our small bases have not yet fallen!"
It's been quite a week for you, hasn't it? Wrong at every step.
Far from it, come back this time next year and we will see if Syria is the liberal peaceful nirvana you insist it will be or full of jihadis again.
I am in this argument for the long haul, even if it takes a year, 5 years or a decade
Since I've had my heating on again, I haven't turned the thermostat higher than 18⁰C
It's reached 18 once; I turn it down to 12 when I go to work and 15 when I go to bed
I did the same before it all got more expensive
What temperatures do you do?
I'm on 18, but I have had to turn it up to 19 at the weekend if I have been at home for lengthy periods. I have noticed that 18 with the radiators on feels warmer than 19 without them on, as you get the radiated heat from the radiators.
When I am at work, and overnight (9pm to about 6am) the heating is off.
One nice feature of under floor heating is that because of the broad radiative surface, and heating via the surface we are in constant contact with, it feels warmer than other systems.
What America, Britain or France need to say is: "Hey! That lovely base in Tartus, it might be really good for us. Whatever Russia's offering you, here's a little more..."
But we shouldn’t have done this with Assad?
The price of operating bases in Syria is being prepared to bomb hospitals, and drop barrel-bomb on civilians
Reminder that @HYUFD was certain that the majority Alawite coastal region of Syria was going to fight until the bitter end and refused to entertain any suggestion otherwise. They didn’t.
Well Latakia and Tartus, the 2 biggest cities in the coastal Alawite heartland of Syria, have still not yet fallen to the rebels.
Assuming they and the rest of the coastal region where the Alawites are based falls who knows what reprisals the rebels will then ultimately pursue against the Alawites and their links to the Assad family
Yes they have. Rebels are in both of those places and statues have even been pulled down
No they haven't. A few statues pulled down by non Alawites there means nothing.
Since I've had my heating on again, I haven't turned the thermostat higher than 18⁰C
It's reached 18 once; I turn it down to 12 when I go to work and 15 when I go to bed
I did the same before it all got more expensive
What temperatures do you do?
19.
It used to be 18, but be warned damp can become a bit of an issue over a long period at that temperature.
18, 15 overnight. I have the dehumidifier running 24/7 and it's a revelation - clothes dry overnight, heating is much more efficient. Up there with electric toothbrushes, Garmin smartwatches and microspikes as brilliant purchases I should have made earlier.
After 10 years of living in mouldy tenements, I think it's the perfect example of how a little capital investment (£200) can improve your life significantly.
Reminder that @HYUFD was certain that the majority Alawite coastal region of Syria was going to fight until the bitter end and refused to entertain any suggestion otherwise. They didn’t.
Well Latakia and Tartus, the 2 biggest cities in the coastal Alawite heartland of Syria, have still not yet fallen to the rebels.
Assuming they and the rest of the coastal region where the Alawites are based falls who knows what reprisals the rebels will then ultimately pursue against the Alawites and their links to the Assad family
Yes they have. Rebels are in both of those places and statues have even been pulled down
No they haven't. A few statues pulled down by non Alawites there means nothing.
The USA is being swarmed by large numbers of CAR SIZED DRONES THAT NO ONE CAN UNDERSTAND
They have now been filmed and witnessed by hundreds if not thousands of people. There are now quite clear images
The USA - the USA! - seems at a loss. No one can explain them. I’m starting to wonder if this is connected with THE MASSIVE FUCKING OWL I saw, inexplicably, in the centre of Santa Cruz de Mompox - it would finally make sense
So what are they?
i see five explanations
1. This is a mass hallucination (across the USA and in the UK?) 2. This is American psy-ops to hide American super-tech 3. This is the Russians or the Chinese 4. This is some non state actor (criminal gangs? Elon Musk??) with amazing tech doing something we don’t understand 5. This is of non human origin
The USA is being swarmed by large numbers of CAR SIZED DRONES THAT NO ONE CAN UNDERSTAND
They have now been filmed and witnessed by hundreds if not thousands of people. There are now quite clear images
The USA - the USA! - seems at a loss. No one can explain them. I’m starting to wonder if this is connected with THE MASSIVE FUCKING OWL I saw, inexplicably, in the centre of Santa Cruz de Mompox - it would finally make sense
So what are they?
i see five explanations
1. This is a mass hallucination (across the USA and in the UK?) 2. This is American psy-ops to hide American super-tech 3. This is the Russians or the Chinese 4. This is some non state actor (criminal gangs? Elon Musk??) with amazing tech doing something we don’t understand 5. This is of non human origin
How do you know these drones are 'car sized'? The size of distant objects are very hard to discern, especially for high-IQ individuals like Father Dougal.
Some might note that in the 19th Cent, the UFOs were balloon shaped. Then they became airplane (advanced) shaped (early 20th Cent.). Then spaceship shaped (mid 20th Cent.). Now super drone shaped.
Obviously the Aliens ravenously absorb Earth Culture. It's probably why they are here.
"Dude - your ship looks like a aluminium disc. That's so 60s retro, man. Get with the program, or you'll be one of those sad types with driving gloves on 8 of your tentacles, polishing your disc at vintage rallies off Beta Reticula."
Headline story is obviously the fact one third of 2024 Labour voters currently say they wouldn't vote Labour, but also notable just 13% of Labour 'defectors' are switching to the Conservatives.
The largest chunk of Labour losses are 'out of voting', i.e., to Don't Know or Would Not Vote, which comprise more than 40% of the 'defections'.
The rest is largely made up of four similarly sized chunks moving to the Tories, Lib Dems, Reform and Greens.
This is the story seen in fundamentals polling too. There is clear public dissatisfaction with the Labour government, with ratings falling on leadership, economy, wider issues, etc. But Tory numbers aren't really rising and it is others - primarily Reform - who are benefitting.
Though, while true that Reform are taking some voters from Labour, the idea that Labour down, Reform up is solely down to Lab -> Ref movement is wrong. Reform are still - both in raw and proportional terms - gaining more voters from the Tories, at least at the moment.
Reminder that @HYUFD was certain that the majority Alawite coastal region of Syria was going to fight until the bitter end and refused to entertain any suggestion otherwise. They didn’t.
Well Latakia and Tartus, the 2 biggest cities in the coastal Alawite heartland of Syria, have still not yet fallen to the rebels.
Assuming they and the rest of the coastal region where the Alawites are based falls who knows what reprisals the rebels will then ultimately pursue against the Alawites and their links to the Assad family
Yes they have. Rebels are in both of those places and statues have even been pulled down
No they haven't. A few statues pulled down by non Alawites there means nothing.
Makes the very good point, if these drones are “the size of SUVs” and they are “hovering for hours” why doesn’t someone in the US - the USAF or a police chopper. - simply follow where they go when they stop their creepy-ass hovering. Presumably if they land in the garden of a drone hobbyist you have your man. If they go out to sea to a Chinese submarine, equally
And if they morph into a ball of cyberplasm and shoot up into the sky towards Betelgeuse at 39,000 mph, we also have a new clue
Since I've had my heating on again, I haven't turned the thermostat higher than 18⁰C
It's reached 18 once; I turn it down to 12 when I go to work and 15 when I go to bed
I did the same before it all got more expensive
What temperatures do you do?
I'm on 18, but I have had to turn it up to 19 at the weekend if I have been at home for lengthy periods. I have noticed that 18 with the radiators on feels warmer than 19 without them on, as you get the radiated heat from the radiators.
When I am at work, and overnight (9pm to about 6am) the heating is off.
Pah! 21 all year round, except the en-suite, which is set to 23*.
But I bet our heating costs were lower than most: Insulation, Insulation, Air-tightness.
(*That's our old house tbf - not the one we are currently renting while we build our new one.)
Since I've had my heating on again, I haven't turned the thermostat higher than 18⁰C
It's reached 18 once; I turn it down to 12 when I go to work and 15 when I go to bed
I did the same before it all got more expensive
What temperatures do you do?
I'm on 18, but I have had to turn it up to 19 at the weekend if I have been at home for lengthy periods. I have noticed that 18 with the radiators on feels warmer than 19 without them on, as you get the radiated heat from the radiators.
When I am at work, and overnight (9pm to about 6am) the heating is off.
One nice feature of under floor heating is that because of the broad radiative surface, and heating via the surface we are in constant contact with, it feels warmer than other systems.
It is odd how you perceive temperature. I have started wearing bedsocks, my circulation no longer seems as good as it used to be, but if I go to bed with cold feet I never seem to warm up. And if it was 18 or 19 degrees in March I would be outside in shorts and a T-shirt, yet in winter it seems cold indoors and I'm wearing a jumper
Reminder that @HYUFD was certain that the majority Alawite coastal region of Syria was going to fight until the bitter end and refused to entertain any suggestion otherwise. They didn’t.
Well Latakia and Tartus, the 2 biggest cities in the coastal Alawite heartland of Syria, have still not yet fallen to the rebels.
Assuming they and the rest of the coastal region where the Alawites are based falls who knows what reprisals the rebels will then ultimately pursue against the Alawites and their links to the Assad family
Yes they have. Rebels are in both of those places and statues have even been pulled down
No they haven't. A few statues pulled down by non Alawites there means nothing.
The USA is being swarmed by large numbers of CAR SIZED DRONES THAT NO ONE CAN UNDERSTAND
They have now been filmed and witnessed by hundreds if not thousands of people. There are now quite clear images
The USA - the USA! - seems at a loss. No one can explain them. I’m starting to wonder if this is connected with THE MASSIVE FUCKING OWL I saw, inexplicably, in the centre of Santa Cruz de Mompox - it would finally make sense
So what are they?
i see five explanations
1. This is a mass hallucination (across the USA and in the UK?) 2. This is American psy-ops to hide American super-tech 3. This is the Russians or the Chinese 4. This is some non state actor (criminal gangs? Elon Musk??) with amazing tech doing something we don’t understand 5. This is of non human origin
College fraternity pranks.
Not impossible. I’ll add it to the list
It would be one of the greatest student pranks in history. Also they managed to do it in the UK, as well (tho of course this may be contagion or coincidence)
Obviously not the most-read article on the Spectator, that has remained the same for the last 72 hours, but still good. It hints that the Syrian drama may actually menace the Tehran regime in the end (emphasis on “may”)
If the toppling of Assad really does lead to the end of the hideous Iranian regime then I will genuinely celebrate, as that would be an uncontestable victory for humanity
Less likely, as Assad was a Shia leader in a majority Sunni nation (as Saddam on the other side was a Sunni leader in a majority Shia nation). The Iranian regime though are Shia leaders of a majority Shia nation
You make the facile assumption that for most people, religion matters more than other matters in life.
You make that assumption because you are a religious fundamentalist.
In the Middle East it does, whether you are a Shia Muslim or Sunni Muslim (or in relation to Israel a Jew) matters far more than whether you want a socialist or capitalist run economy or even the nation state
You see, you are seeing this from the perspective of a religious bigot.
Most people are not religious bigots, even in the ME.
That is your mistake.
Yes most people in the ME are flocking to gay pride parades, women wandering around the streets in very little with the authorities not batting an eye lid. They certainly don't have public beheadings, floggings or public hangings in half the ME nations either. Oh wait...
You are mistaking the people with the regimes. A mistake Assad has made over the last couple of decades.
Assad was toppled because he was a Shia dictator in a majority Sunni nation. Not because he wasn't pro LGBT enough or too socially conservative and there weren't enough women in his regime.
In reality Assad was relatively secular in ME terms, the rebels who have toppled his regime are rather more rigorous in their following of the Koran than he is
Assad was toppled for many reasons. Because you are a religious bigot, you view events through a religious prism.
You don't care for the tens of thousands he held in prisons without trial *before* the civil war started in 2011. In your mind, they are irrelevant to people's motivations. Ditto other matters. For you, religion is paramount.
I'd argue the motivations of most people are much wider than the religious viewpoint you aspire to.
You are entirely wrong on this, @HYUFD is a believer. Because of that he is able to understand the religious mindset whereas you, a non-believer (IIRC) cannot
For many people religion is not some pleasant add-on, a collection of social rituals, and it is nothing like a political opinion or a tribal affiliation. It goes to the very core of their being, such that they will endure poverty, suffering, adversity, if they are still allowed to believe and worship (if the choice is that stark), indeed some are willing to die for their faith. This may seem so weird to you that you cannot comprehend it, but it shouldn’t be so. The west was like this until the Enlightenment, hence the wars of religion, the burning of martyrs, and so forth
Islam has not had “an Enlightenment” so very many Muslims still believe in the way that Christians believed up until the late 17th century: their religion is bound up with their identity, it gives their life purpose and meaning, going without it would be unbearably painful
The inability of westerners to “get” Islam, in this manner, is at the root of many of our problems with the MENA
"whereas you, a non-believer (IIRC) cannot"
I am agnostic, not atheist. Which adds a certain complexity to your argument.
If someone 'believed' they should murder all sinister people (left-handers...), I would be aghast. Even as a right-hander.
So whilst someone like HYUFD might have their 'religious' beliefs down to their core, it does not make them right. And it gives them no right to force their beliefs on others. which is the way religions have kept check on societies in the past, and which is increasingly hard in a modern society. Which is why Latin was used for bibles in the Middle Ages - control.
HYUFD sees women as second-class citizens, who should not work and be baby-bearers. In that attitude, he is not so far away from the Muslim fanatics he hates. He is as much a religious bigot as they are, kept in check by social mores in this country.
I am married to someone raised as a Muslim. As such, I think I 'understand' Islam better than an out-and-out hater such as you. It has many attractive aspects; but as with all religions, the adherents turn what should be good into something that can be very, very bad. Like communism it is good in theory. In practice, it is terrible.
What a load of crap. Firstly, I am not 'forcing' my religious beliefs on you. Heretics like you are not burnt at the stake any longer for denying the firm belief in God and Christ and the monarch being supreme governor of our church (or the Pope if it was Mary Tudor). Nor are you fined for not attending your local C of E Parish church every Sunday as you would have been in the 16th and most of the 17th centuries.
I never said women should never work, however there is no doubt that more women in full time work at peak fertility rate in their 20s and 30s and motherhood age has lowered our birthrate to below replacement level.
Since I've had my heating on again, I haven't turned the thermostat higher than 18⁰C
It's reached 18 once; I turn it down to 12 when I go to work and 15 when I go to bed
I did the same before it all got more expensive
What temperatures do you do?
I'm on 18, but I have had to turn it up to 19 at the weekend if I have been at home for lengthy periods. I have noticed that 18 with the radiators on feels warmer than 19 without them on, as you get the radiated heat from the radiators.
When I am at work, and overnight (9pm to about 6am) the heating is off.
Pah! 21 all year round, except the en-suite, which is set to 23*.
But I bet our heating costs were lower than most: Insulation, Insulation, Air-tightness.
(*That's our old house tbf - not the one we are currently renting while we build our new one.)
I used to be on 21 but a couple of years ago when fuel prices went up I slowly reduced the temperature by half a degree at a time to work out what I could cope with. If it's too warm to wear a jumper, I reckon I'm wasting my money.
Since I've had my heating on again, I haven't turned the thermostat higher than 18⁰C
It's reached 18 once; I turn it down to 12 when I go to work and 15 when I go to bed
I did the same before it all got more expensive
What temperatures do you do?
I'm on 18, but I have had to turn it up to 19 at the weekend if I have been at home for lengthy periods. I have noticed that 18 with the radiators on feels warmer than 19 without them on, as you get the radiated heat from the radiators.
When I am at work, and overnight (9pm to about 6am) the heating is off.
Pah! 21 all year round, except the en-suite, which is set to 23*.
But I bet our heating costs were lower than most: Insulation, Insulation, Air-tightness.
(*That's our old house tbf - not the one we are currently renting while we build our new one.)
I used to be on 21 but a couple of years ago when fuel prices went up I slowly reduced the temperature by half a degree at a time to work out what I could cope with. If it's too warm to wear a jumper, I reckon I'm wasting my money.
I try to sneak it down to 19 but my other half has special thermostat feet that instantly detect the 2 degree shift.
Since I've had my heating on again, I haven't turned the thermostat higher than 18⁰C
It's reached 18 once; I turn it down to 12 when I go to work and 15 when I go to bed
I did the same before it all got more expensive
What temperatures do you do?
I used to have my thermostat set to 17C, and turn it down overnight. Then we left it on 17C, but used the timer on the boiler to only have it come on for a few periods during the day - this was because our thermostat was rubbish, and the system wouldn't hold our home at a constant temperature anyway, it would have to get quite cold before clicking on and then it would stay on until it was too warm.
Then I measured the temperature by the thermostat with a proper thermometer, and found that when the thermostat was set to 17C, it actually turned the heating on when it fell below 20C.
Now I don't believe anyone's thermostat stories unless they've independently measured the temperature with a properly calibrated thermometer.
Obviously not the most-read article on the Spectator, that has remained the same for the last 72 hours, but still good. It hints that the Syrian drama may actually menace the Tehran regime in the end (emphasis on “may”)
If the toppling of Assad really does lead to the end of the hideous Iranian regime then I will genuinely celebrate, as that would be an uncontestable victory for humanity
Less likely, as Assad was a Shia leader in a majority Sunni nation (as Saddam on the other side was a Sunni leader in a majority Shia nation). The Iranian regime though are Shia leaders of a majority Shia nation
You make the facile assumption that for most people, religion matters more than other matters in life.
You make that assumption because you are a religious fundamentalist.
In the Middle East it does, whether you are a Shia Muslim or Sunni Muslim (or in relation to Israel a Jew) matters far more than whether you want a socialist or capitalist run economy or even the nation state
You see, you are seeing this from the perspective of a religious bigot.
Most people are not religious bigots, even in the ME.
That is your mistake.
Yes most people in the ME are flocking to gay pride parades, women wandering around the streets in very little with the authorities not batting an eye lid. They certainly don't have public beheadings, floggings or public hangings in half the ME nations either. Oh wait...
You are mistaking the people with the regimes. A mistake Assad has made over the last couple of decades.
Assad was toppled because he was a Shia dictator in a majority Sunni nation. Not because he wasn't pro LGBT enough or too socially conservative and there weren't enough women in his regime.
In reality Assad was relatively secular in ME terms, the rebels who have toppled his regime are rather more rigorous in their following of the Koran than he is
Assad was toppled for many reasons. Because you are a religious bigot, you view events through a religious prism.
You don't care for the tens of thousands he held in prisons without trial *before* the civil war started in 2011. In your mind, they are irrelevant to people's motivations. Ditto other matters. For you, religion is paramount.
I'd argue the motivations of most people are much wider than the religious viewpoint you aspire to.
You are entirely wrong on this, @HYUFD is a believer. Because of that he is able to understand the religious mindset whereas you, a non-believer (IIRC) cannot
For many people religion is not some pleasant add-on, a collection of social rituals, and it is nothing like a political opinion or a tribal affiliation. It goes to the very core of their being, such that they will endure poverty, suffering, adversity, if they are still allowed to believe and worship (if the choice is that stark), indeed some are willing to die for their faith. This may seem so weird to you that you cannot comprehend it, but it shouldn’t be so. The west was like this until the Enlightenment, hence the wars of religion, the burning of martyrs, and so forth
Islam has not had “an Enlightenment” so very many Muslims still believe in the way that Christians believed up until the late 17th century: their religion is bound up with their identity, it gives their life purpose and meaning, going without it would be unbearably painful
The inability of westerners to “get” Islam, in this manner, is at the root of many of our problems with the MENA
"whereas you, a non-believer (IIRC) cannot"
I am agnostic, not atheist. Which adds a certain complexity to your argument.
If someone 'believed' they should murder all sinister people (left-handers...), I would be aghast. Even as a right-hander.
So whilst someone like HYUFD might have their 'religious' beliefs down to their core, it does not make them right. And it gives them no right to force their beliefs on others. which is the way religions have kept check on societies in the past, and which is increasingly hard in a modern society. Which is why Latin was used for bibles in the Middle Ages - control.
HYUFD sees women as second-class citizens, who should not work and be baby-bearers. In that attitude, he is not so far away from the Muslim fanatics he hates. He is as much a religious bigot as they are, kept in check by social mores in this country.
I am married to someone raised as a Muslim. As such, I think I 'understand' Islam better than an out-and-out hater such as you. It has many attractive aspects; but as with all religions, the adherents turn what should be good into something that can be very, very bad. Like communism it is good in theory. In practice, it is terrible.
What a load of crap. Firstly, I am not 'forcing' my religious beliefs on you. Heretics like you are not burnt at the stake any longer for denying the firm belief in God and Christ and the monarch being supreme governor of our church (or the Pope if it was Mary Tudor). Nor are you fined for not attending your local C of E Parish church every Sunday as you would have been in the 16th and most of the 17th centuries.
I never said women should never work, however there is no doubt that more women in full time work at peak fertility rate in their 20s and 30s and motherhood age has lowered our birthrate to below replacement level.
If I get sick and want to end my own suffering through physician-assisted death you want to deny my right to do so, because of your religion that I do not share with you.
You want to impose your religious choices on others. You do all the time.
OK this is now objectively VERY WEIRD and also hugely entertaining
“Swarms of large drones, some described as big as cars, are flying over neighborhoods in New Jersey and New York. One even flew over a meeting of Pentagon leaders in California. NBC News' George Solis has the latest.”
What the F is going on
This is not “misidentified planes, or a kid with a toy”
Obviously not the most-read article on the Spectator, that has remained the same for the last 72 hours, but still good. It hints that the Syrian drama may actually menace the Tehran regime in the end (emphasis on “may”)
If the toppling of Assad really does lead to the end of the hideous Iranian regime then I will genuinely celebrate, as that would be an uncontestable victory for humanity
Less likely, as Assad was a Shia leader in a majority Sunni nation (as Saddam on the other side was a Sunni leader in a majority Shia nation). The Iranian regime though are Shia leaders of a majority Shia nation
You make the facile assumption that for most people, religion matters more than other matters in life.
You make that assumption because you are a religious fundamentalist.
In the Middle East it does, whether you are a Shia Muslim or Sunni Muslim (or in relation to Israel a Jew) matters far more than whether you want a socialist or capitalist run economy or even the nation state
You see, you are seeing this from the perspective of a religious bigot.
Most people are not religious bigots, even in the ME.
That is your mistake.
Yes most people in the ME are flocking to gay pride parades, women wandering around the streets in very little with the authorities not batting an eye lid. They certainly don't have public beheadings, floggings or public hangings in half the ME nations either. Oh wait...
You are mistaking the people with the regimes. A mistake Assad has made over the last couple of decades.
Assad was toppled because he was a Shia dictator in a majority Sunni nation. Not because he wasn't pro LGBT enough or too socially conservative and there weren't enough women in his regime.
In reality Assad was relatively secular in ME terms, the rebels who have toppled his regime are rather more rigorous in their following of the Koran than he is
Assad was toppled for many reasons. Because you are a religious bigot, you view events through a religious prism.
You don't care for the tens of thousands he held in prisons without trial *before* the civil war started in 2011. In your mind, they are irrelevant to people's motivations. Ditto other matters. For you, religion is paramount.
I'd argue the motivations of most people are much wider than the religious viewpoint you aspire to.
You are entirely wrong on this, @HYUFD is a believer. Because of that he is able to understand the religious mindset whereas you, a non-believer (IIRC) cannot
For many people religion is not some pleasant add-on, a collection of social rituals, and it is nothing like a political opinion or a tribal affiliation. It goes to the very core of their being, such that they will endure poverty, suffering, adversity, if they are still allowed to believe and worship (if the choice is that stark), indeed some are willing to die for their faith. This may seem so weird to you that you cannot comprehend it, but it shouldn’t be so. The west was like this until the Enlightenment, hence the wars of religion, the burning of martyrs, and so forth
Islam has not had “an Enlightenment” so very many Muslims still believe in the way that Christians believed up until the late 17th century: their religion is bound up with their identity, it gives their life purpose and meaning, going without it would be unbearably painful
The inability of westerners to “get” Islam, in this manner, is at the root of many of our problems with the MENA
"whereas you, a non-believer (IIRC) cannot"
I am agnostic, not atheist. Which adds a certain complexity to your argument.
If someone 'believed' they should murder all sinister people (left-handers...), I would be aghast. Even as a right-hander.
So whilst someone like HYUFD might have their 'religious' beliefs down to their core, it does not make them right. And it gives them no right to force their beliefs on others. which is the way religions have kept check on societies in the past, and which is increasingly hard in a modern society. Which is why Latin was used for bibles in the Middle Ages - control.
HYUFD sees women as second-class citizens, who should not work and be baby-bearers. In that attitude, he is not so far away from the Muslim fanatics he hates. He is as much a religious bigot as they are, kept in check by social mores in this country.
I am married to someone raised as a Muslim. As such, I think I 'understand' Islam better than an out-and-out hater such as you. It has many attractive aspects; but as with all religions, the adherents turn what should be good into something that can be very, very bad. Like communism it is good in theory. In practice, it is terrible.
What a load of crap. Firstly, I am not 'forcing' my religious beliefs on you. Heretics like you are not burnt at the stake any longer for denying the firm belief in God and Christ and the monarch being supreme governor of our church (or the Pope if it was Mary Tudor). Nor are you fined for not attending your local C of E Parish church every Sunday as you would have been in the 16th and most of the 17th centuries.
I never said women should never work, however there is no doubt that more women in full time work at peak fertility rate in their 20s and 30s and motherhood age has lowered our birthrate to below replacement level.
I am not sure Jesus would like anyone to be burnt at the stake, and certainly He would be far more forgiving, kind and generous than anything I have read you say about Christianity
Headline story is obviously the fact one third of 2024 Labour voters currently say they wouldn't vote Labour, but also notable just 13% of Labour 'defectors' are switching to the Conservatives.
The largest chunk of Labour losses are 'out of voting', i.e., to Don't Know or Would Not Vote, which comprise more than 40% of the 'defections'.
The rest is largely made up of four similarly sized chunks moving to the Tories, Lib Dems, Reform and Greens.
This is the story seen in fundamentals polling too. There is clear public dissatisfaction with the Labour government, with ratings falling on leadership, economy, wider issues, etc. But Tory numbers aren't really rising and it is others - primarily Reform - who are benefitting.
Though, while true that Reform are taking some voters from Labour, the idea that Labour down, Reform up is solely down to Lab -> Ref movement is wrong. Reform are still - both in raw and proportional terms - gaining more voters from the Tories, at least at the moment.
A personal electric aircraft with vertical take off and landing. Not from Neptune
How come I was able to work this out in 20 minutes in a hotel in Cartagena but the editorial staff of NBC news were not?
NBC want you to click on their site? You've been baited to do that.
If only there were a term for that.
How come I was able to work this out in 20 seconds and you could not?
I have just explained a global mystery while sitting in the golden lobby of my hotel in Cartagena, Colombia; you are wanking about in your y-fronts in a redbrick Barratt home new build semi in Newent
Obviously not the most-read article on the Spectator, that has remained the same for the last 72 hours, but still good. It hints that the Syrian drama may actually menace the Tehran regime in the end (emphasis on “may”)
If the toppling of Assad really does lead to the end of the hideous Iranian regime then I will genuinely celebrate, as that would be an uncontestable victory for humanity
Less likely, as Assad was a Shia leader in a majority Sunni nation (as Saddam on the other side was a Sunni leader in a majority Shia nation). The Iranian regime though are Shia leaders of a majority Shia nation
You make the facile assumption that for most people, religion matters more than other matters in life.
You make that assumption because you are a religious fundamentalist.
In the Middle East it does, whether you are a Shia Muslim or Sunni Muslim (or in relation to Israel a Jew) matters far more than whether you want a socialist or capitalist run economy or even the nation state
You see, you are seeing this from the perspective of a religious bigot.
Most people are not religious bigots, even in the ME.
That is your mistake.
Yes most people in the ME are flocking to gay pride parades, women wandering around the streets in very little with the authorities not batting an eye lid. They certainly don't have public beheadings, floggings or public hangings in half the ME nations either. Oh wait...
You are mistaking the people with the regimes. A mistake Assad has made over the last couple of decades.
Assad was toppled because he was a Shia dictator in a majority Sunni nation. Not because he wasn't pro LGBT enough or too socially conservative and there weren't enough women in his regime.
In reality Assad was relatively secular in ME terms, the rebels who have toppled his regime are rather more rigorous in their following of the Koran than he is
Assad was toppled for many reasons. Because you are a religious bigot, you view events through a religious prism.
You don't care for the tens of thousands he held in prisons without trial *before* the civil war started in 2011. In your mind, they are irrelevant to people's motivations. Ditto other matters. For you, religion is paramount.
I'd argue the motivations of most people are much wider than the religious viewpoint you aspire to.
You are entirely wrong on this, @HYUFD is a believer. Because of that he is able to understand the religious mindset whereas you, a non-believer (IIRC) cannot
For many people religion is not some pleasant add-on, a collection of social rituals, and it is nothing like a political opinion or a tribal affiliation. It goes to the very core of their being, such that they will endure poverty, suffering, adversity, if they are still allowed to believe and worship (if the choice is that stark), indeed some are willing to die for their faith. This may seem so weird to you that you cannot comprehend it, but it shouldn’t be so. The west was like this until the Enlightenment, hence the wars of religion, the burning of martyrs, and so forth
Islam has not had “an Enlightenment” so very many Muslims still believe in the way that Christians believed up until the late 17th century: their religion is bound up with their identity, it gives their life purpose and meaning, going without it would be unbearably painful
The inability of westerners to “get” Islam, in this manner, is at the root of many of our problems with the MENA
"whereas you, a non-believer (IIRC) cannot"
I am agnostic, not atheist. Which adds a certain complexity to your argument.
If someone 'believed' they should murder all sinister people (left-handers...), I would be aghast. Even as a right-hander.
So whilst someone like HYUFD might have their 'religious' beliefs down to their core, it does not make them right. And it gives them no right to force their beliefs on others. which is the way religions have kept check on societies in the past, and which is increasingly hard in a modern society. Which is why Latin was used for bibles in the Middle Ages - control.
HYUFD sees women as second-class citizens, who should not work and be baby-bearers. In that attitude, he is not so far away from the Muslim fanatics he hates. He is as much a religious bigot as they are, kept in check by social mores in this country.
I am married to someone raised as a Muslim. As such, I think I 'understand' Islam better than an out-and-out hater such as you. It has many attractive aspects; but as with all religions, the adherents turn what should be good into something that can be very, very bad. Like communism it is good in theory. In practice, it is terrible.
What a load of crap. Firstly, I am not 'forcing' my religious beliefs on you. Heretics like you are not burnt at the stake any longer for denying the firm belief in God and Christ and the monarch being supreme governor of our church (or the Pope if it was Mary Tudor). Nor are you fined for not attending your local C of E Parish church every Sunday as you would have been in the 16th and most of the 17th centuries.
I never said women should never work, however there is no doubt that more women in full time work at peak fertility rate in their 20s and 30s and motherhood age has lowered our birthrate to below replacement level.
I am not sure Jesus would like anyone to be burnt at the stake, and certainly He would be far more forgiving, kind and generous than anything I have read you say about Christianity
Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works. (2 John 1:7-11)
Obviously not the most-read article on the Spectator, that has remained the same for the last 72 hours, but still good. It hints that the Syrian drama may actually menace the Tehran regime in the end (emphasis on “may”)
If the toppling of Assad really does lead to the end of the hideous Iranian regime then I will genuinely celebrate, as that would be an uncontestable victory for humanity
Less likely, as Assad was a Shia leader in a majority Sunni nation (as Saddam on the other side was a Sunni leader in a majority Shia nation). The Iranian regime though are Shia leaders of a majority Shia nation
You make the facile assumption that for most people, religion matters more than other matters in life.
You make that assumption because you are a religious fundamentalist.
In the Middle East it does, whether you are a Shia Muslim or Sunni Muslim (or in relation to Israel a Jew) matters far more than whether you want a socialist or capitalist run economy or even the nation state
You see, you are seeing this from the perspective of a religious bigot.
Most people are not religious bigots, even in the ME.
That is your mistake.
Yes most people in the ME are flocking to gay pride parades, women wandering around the streets in very little with the authorities not batting an eye lid. They certainly don't have public beheadings, floggings or public hangings in half the ME nations either. Oh wait...
You are mistaking the people with the regimes. A mistake Assad has made over the last couple of decades.
Assad was toppled because he was a Shia dictator in a majority Sunni nation. Not because he wasn't pro LGBT enough or too socially conservative and there weren't enough women in his regime.
In reality Assad was relatively secular in ME terms, the rebels who have toppled his regime are rather more rigorous in their following of the Koran than he is
Assad is an Alawite, which is a very specific sect: they believe in a form of Trinity and consecrate wine in their ceremonies- It is a fascinating and little understood group unique to the Levant. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alawites
A friend of mine did much research on them and found them an endless source of fascination.
That’s fascinating. I had no idea they were so exotic
Notable that they are thought to derive, in part, from Sinjar province in Iraq. That’s also the home of the Yazidi….
Right up your street, all of that and Krak des Chevaliers too. Holiday in Western Syria next year? Latakia used to be very nice. Mind you so were Aleppo and Palmyra once. Still at least Damascus has survived mostly undestroyed... so far.
Obviously not the most-read article on the Spectator, that has remained the same for the last 72 hours, but still good. It hints that the Syrian drama may actually menace the Tehran regime in the end (emphasis on “may”)
If the toppling of Assad really does lead to the end of the hideous Iranian regime then I will genuinely celebrate, as that would be an uncontestable victory for humanity
Less likely, as Assad was a Shia leader in a majority Sunni nation (as Saddam on the other side was a Sunni leader in a majority Shia nation). The Iranian regime though are Shia leaders of a majority Shia nation
You make the facile assumption that for most people, religion matters more than other matters in life.
You make that assumption because you are a religious fundamentalist.
In the Middle East it does, whether you are a Shia Muslim or Sunni Muslim (or in relation to Israel a Jew) matters far more than whether you want a socialist or capitalist run economy or even the nation state
You see, you are seeing this from the perspective of a religious bigot.
Most people are not religious bigots, even in the ME.
That is your mistake.
Yes most people in the ME are flocking to gay pride parades, women wandering around the streets in very little with the authorities not batting an eye lid. They certainly don't have public beheadings, floggings or public hangings in half the ME nations either. Oh wait...
You are mistaking the people with the regimes. A mistake Assad has made over the last couple of decades.
Assad was toppled because he was a Shia dictator in a majority Sunni nation. Not because he wasn't pro LGBT enough or too socially conservative and there weren't enough women in his regime.
In reality Assad was relatively secular in ME terms, the rebels who have toppled his regime are rather more rigorous in their following of the Koran than he is
Assad was toppled for many reasons. Because you are a religious bigot, you view events through a religious prism.
You don't care for the tens of thousands he held in prisons without trial *before* the civil war started in 2011. In your mind, they are irrelevant to people's motivations. Ditto other matters. For you, religion is paramount.
I'd argue the motivations of most people are much wider than the religious viewpoint you aspire to.
You are entirely wrong on this, @HYUFD is a believer. Because of that he is able to understand the religious mindset whereas you, a non-believer (IIRC) cannot
For many people religion is not some pleasant add-on, a collection of social rituals, and it is nothing like a political opinion or a tribal affiliation. It goes to the very core of their being, such that they will endure poverty, suffering, adversity, if they are still allowed to believe and worship (if the choice is that stark), indeed some are willing to die for their faith. This may seem so weird to you that you cannot comprehend it, but it shouldn’t be so. The west was like this until the Enlightenment, hence the wars of religion, the burning of martyrs, and so forth
Islam has not had “an Enlightenment” so very many Muslims still believe in the way that Christians believed up until the late 17th century: their religion is bound up with their identity, it gives their life purpose and meaning, going without it would be unbearably painful
The inability of westerners to “get” Islam, in this manner, is at the root of many of our problems with the MENA
"whereas you, a non-believer (IIRC) cannot"
I am agnostic, not atheist. Which adds a certain complexity to your argument.
If someone 'believed' they should murder all sinister people (left-handers...), I would be aghast. Even as a right-hander.
So whilst someone like HYUFD might have their 'religious' beliefs down to their core, it does not make them right. And it gives them no right to force their beliefs on others. which is the way religions have kept check on societies in the past, and which is increasingly hard in a modern society. Which is why Latin was used for bibles in the Middle Ages - control.
HYUFD sees women as second-class citizens, who should not work and be baby-bearers. In that attitude, he is not so far away from the Muslim fanatics he hates. He is as much a religious bigot as they are, kept in check by social mores in this country.
I am married to someone raised as a Muslim. As such, I think I 'understand' Islam better than an out-and-out hater such as you. It has many attractive aspects; but as with all religions, the adherents turn what should be good into something that can be very, very bad. Like communism it is good in theory. In practice, it is terrible.
What a load of crap. Firstly, I am not 'forcing' my religious beliefs on you. Heretics like you are not burnt at the stake any longer for denying the firm belief in God and Christ and the monarch being supreme governor of our church (or the Pope if it was Mary Tudor). Nor are you fined for not attending your local C of E Parish church every Sunday as you would have been in the 16th and most of the 17th centuries.
I never said women should never work, however there is no doubt that more women in full time work at peak fertility rate in their 20s and 30s and motherhood age has lowered our birthrate to below replacement level.
I am not sure Jesus would like anyone to be burnt at the stake, and certainly He would be far more forgiving, kind and generous than anything I have read you say about Christianity
John 8:7 And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, “Let him who has sinned be burnt at the stake.”
Obviously not the most-read article on the Spectator, that has remained the same for the last 72 hours, but still good. It hints that the Syrian drama may actually menace the Tehran regime in the end (emphasis on “may”)
If the toppling of Assad really does lead to the end of the hideous Iranian regime then I will genuinely celebrate, as that would be an uncontestable victory for humanity
Less likely, as Assad was a Shia leader in a majority Sunni nation (as Saddam on the other side was a Sunni leader in a majority Shia nation). The Iranian regime though are Shia leaders of a majority Shia nation
You make the facile assumption that for most people, religion matters more than other matters in life.
You make that assumption because you are a religious fundamentalist.
In the Middle East it does, whether you are a Shia Muslim or Sunni Muslim (or in relation to Israel a Jew) matters far more than whether you want a socialist or capitalist run economy or even the nation state
You see, you are seeing this from the perspective of a religious bigot.
Most people are not religious bigots, even in the ME.
That is your mistake.
Yes most people in the ME are flocking to gay pride parades, women wandering around the streets in very little with the authorities not batting an eye lid. They certainly don't have public beheadings, floggings or public hangings in half the ME nations either. Oh wait...
You are mistaking the people with the regimes. A mistake Assad has made over the last couple of decades.
Assad was toppled because he was a Shia dictator in a majority Sunni nation. Not because he wasn't pro LGBT enough or too socially conservative and there weren't enough women in his regime.
In reality Assad was relatively secular in ME terms, the rebels who have toppled his regime are rather more rigorous in their following of the Koran than he is
Assad was toppled for many reasons. Because you are a religious bigot, you view events through a religious prism.
You don't care for the tens of thousands he held in prisons without trial *before* the civil war started in 2011. In your mind, they are irrelevant to people's motivations. Ditto other matters. For you, religion is paramount.
I'd argue the motivations of most people are much wider than the religious viewpoint you aspire to.
You are entirely wrong on this, @HYUFD is a believer. Because of that he is able to understand the religious mindset whereas you, a non-believer (IIRC) cannot
For many people religion is not some pleasant add-on, a collection of social rituals, and it is nothing like a political opinion or a tribal affiliation. It goes to the very core of their being, such that they will endure poverty, suffering, adversity, if they are still allowed to believe and worship (if the choice is that stark), indeed some are willing to die for their faith. This may seem so weird to you that you cannot comprehend it, but it shouldn’t be so. The west was like this until the Enlightenment, hence the wars of religion, the burning of martyrs, and so forth
Islam has not had “an Enlightenment” so very many Muslims still believe in the way that Christians believed up until the late 17th century: their religion is bound up with their identity, it gives their life purpose and meaning, going without it would be unbearably painful
The inability of westerners to “get” Islam, in this manner, is at the root of many of our problems with the MENA
"whereas you, a non-believer (IIRC) cannot"
I am agnostic, not atheist. Which adds a certain complexity to your argument.
If someone 'believed' they should murder all sinister people (left-handers...), I would be aghast. Even as a right-hander.
So whilst someone like HYUFD might have their 'religious' beliefs down to their core, it does not make them right. And it gives them no right to force their beliefs on others. which is the way religions have kept check on societies in the past, and which is increasingly hard in a modern society. Which is why Latin was used for bibles in the Middle Ages - control.
HYUFD sees women as second-class citizens, who should not work and be baby-bearers. In that attitude, he is not so far away from the Muslim fanatics he hates. He is as much a religious bigot as they are, kept in check by social mores in this country.
I am married to someone raised as a Muslim. As such, I think I 'understand' Islam better than an out-and-out hater such as you. It has many attractive aspects; but as with all religions, the adherents turn what should be good into something that can be very, very bad. Like communism it is good in theory. In practice, it is terrible.
What a load of crap. Firstly, I am not 'forcing' my religious beliefs on you. Heretics like you are not burnt at the stake any longer for denying the firm belief in God and Christ and the monarch being supreme governor of our church (or the Pope if it was Mary Tudor). Nor are you fined for not attending your local C of E Parish church every Sunday as you would have been in the 16th and most of the 17th centuries.
I never said women should never work, however there is no doubt that more women in full time work at peak fertility rate in their 20s and 30s and motherhood age has lowered our birthrate to below replacement level.
If I get sick and want to end my own suffering through physician-assisted death you want to deny my right to do so, because of your religion that I do not share with you.
You want to impose your religious choices on others. You do all the time.
Rightly so, I don't believe in state assisted killing of the innocent but then nor do many atheists like Baroness Tanni Grey Thompson.
In a democracy religious people are as entitled to exercise their vote based on what they believe as you atheists are
Obviously not the most-read article on the Spectator, that has remained the same for the last 72 hours, but still good. It hints that the Syrian drama may actually menace the Tehran regime in the end (emphasis on “may”)
If the toppling of Assad really does lead to the end of the hideous Iranian regime then I will genuinely celebrate, as that would be an uncontestable victory for humanity
Less likely, as Assad was a Shia leader in a majority Sunni nation (as Saddam on the other side was a Sunni leader in a majority Shia nation). The Iranian regime though are Shia leaders of a majority Shia nation
You make the facile assumption that for most people, religion matters more than other matters in life.
You make that assumption because you are a religious fundamentalist.
In the Middle East it does, whether you are a Shia Muslim or Sunni Muslim (or in relation to Israel a Jew) matters far more than whether you want a socialist or capitalist run economy or even the nation state
You see, you are seeing this from the perspective of a religious bigot.
Most people are not religious bigots, even in the ME.
That is your mistake.
Yes most people in the ME are flocking to gay pride parades, women wandering around the streets in very little with the authorities not batting an eye lid. They certainly don't have public beheadings, floggings or public hangings in half the ME nations either. Oh wait...
You are mistaking the people with the regimes. A mistake Assad has made over the last couple of decades.
Assad was toppled because he was a Shia dictator in a majority Sunni nation. Not because he wasn't pro LGBT enough or too socially conservative and there weren't enough women in his regime.
In reality Assad was relatively secular in ME terms, the rebels who have toppled his regime are rather more rigorous in their following of the Koran than he is
Assad was toppled for many reasons. Because you are a religious bigot, you view events through a religious prism.
You don't care for the tens of thousands he held in prisons without trial *before* the civil war started in 2011. In your mind, they are irrelevant to people's motivations. Ditto other matters. For you, religion is paramount.
I'd argue the motivations of most people are much wider than the religious viewpoint you aspire to.
You are entirely wrong on this, @HYUFD is a believer. Because of that he is able to understand the religious mindset whereas you, a non-believer (IIRC) cannot
For many people religion is not some pleasant add-on, a collection of social rituals, and it is nothing like a political opinion or a tribal affiliation. It goes to the very core of their being, such that they will endure poverty, suffering, adversity, if they are still allowed to believe and worship (if the choice is that stark), indeed some are willing to die for their faith. This may seem so weird to you that you cannot comprehend it, but it shouldn’t be so. The west was like this until the Enlightenment, hence the wars of religion, the burning of martyrs, and so forth
Islam has not had “an Enlightenment” so very many Muslims still believe in the way that Christians believed up until the late 17th century: their religion is bound up with their identity, it gives their life purpose and meaning, going without it would be unbearably painful
The inability of westerners to “get” Islam, in this manner, is at the root of many of our problems with the MENA
"whereas you, a non-believer (IIRC) cannot"
I am agnostic, not atheist. Which adds a certain complexity to your argument.
If someone 'believed' they should murder all sinister people (left-handers...), I would be aghast. Even as a right-hander.
So whilst someone like HYUFD might have their 'religious' beliefs down to their core, it does not make them right. And it gives them no right to force their beliefs on others. which is the way religions have kept check on societies in the past, and which is increasingly hard in a modern society. Which is why Latin was used for bibles in the Middle Ages - control.
HYUFD sees women as second-class citizens, who should not work and be baby-bearers. In that attitude, he is not so far away from the Muslim fanatics he hates. He is as much a religious bigot as they are, kept in check by social mores in this country.
I am married to someone raised as a Muslim. As such, I think I 'understand' Islam better than an out-and-out hater such as you. It has many attractive aspects; but as with all religions, the adherents turn what should be good into something that can be very, very bad. Like communism it is good in theory. In practice, it is terrible.
What a load of crap. Firstly, I am not 'forcing' my religious beliefs on you. Heretics like you are not burnt at the stake any longer for denying the firm belief in God and Christ and the monarch being supreme governor of our church (or the Pope if it was Mary Tudor). Nor are you fined for not attending your local C of E Parish church every Sunday as you would have been in the 16th and most of the 17th centuries.
I never said women should never work, however there is no doubt that more women in full time work at peak fertility rate in their 20s and 30s and motherhood age has lowered our birthrate to below replacement level.
I am not sure Jesus would like anyone to be burnt at the stake, and certainly He would be far more forgiving, kind and generous than anything I have read you say about Christianity
"Let he who is without PB cast the first AV thread!"
A personal electric aircraft with vertical take off and landing. Not from Neptune
How come I was able to work this out in 20 minutes in a hotel in Cartagena but the editorial staff of NBC news were not?
NBC want you to click on their site? You've been baited to do that.
If only there were a term for that.
How come I was able to work this out in 20 seconds and you could not?
I have just explained a global mystery while sitting in the golden lobby of my hotel in Cartagena, Colombia; you are wanking about in your y-fronts in a redbrick Barratt home new build semi in Newent
A personal electric aircraft with vertical take off and landing. Not from Neptune
How come I was able to work this out in 20 minutes in a hotel in Cartagena but the editorial staff of NBC news were not?
NBC want you to click on their site? You've been baited to do that.
If only there were a term for that.
How come I was able to work this out in 20 seconds and you could not?
I have just explained a global mystery while sitting in the golden lobby of my hotel in Cartagena, Colombia; you are wanking about in your y-fronts in a redbrick Barratt home new build semi in Newent
You're the only one who finds clickbait a mystery.
Maybe one day you'll learn enough to realise why the rest of us aren't interested.
Obviously not the most-read article on the Spectator, that has remained the same for the last 72 hours, but still good. It hints that the Syrian drama may actually menace the Tehran regime in the end (emphasis on “may”)
If the toppling of Assad really does lead to the end of the hideous Iranian regime then I will genuinely celebrate, as that would be an uncontestable victory for humanity
Less likely, as Assad was a Shia leader in a majority Sunni nation (as Saddam on the other side was a Sunni leader in a majority Shia nation). The Iranian regime though are Shia leaders of a majority Shia nation
You make the facile assumption that for most people, religion matters more than other matters in life.
You make that assumption because you are a religious fundamentalist.
In the Middle East it does, whether you are a Shia Muslim or Sunni Muslim (or in relation to Israel a Jew) matters far more than whether you want a socialist or capitalist run economy or even the nation state
You see, you are seeing this from the perspective of a religious bigot.
Most people are not religious bigots, even in the ME.
That is your mistake.
Yes most people in the ME are flocking to gay pride parades, women wandering around the streets in very little with the authorities not batting an eye lid. They certainly don't have public beheadings, floggings or public hangings in half the ME nations either. Oh wait...
You are mistaking the people with the regimes. A mistake Assad has made over the last couple of decades.
Assad was toppled because he was a Shia dictator in a majority Sunni nation. Not because he wasn't pro LGBT enough or too socially conservative and there weren't enough women in his regime.
In reality Assad was relatively secular in ME terms, the rebels who have toppled his regime are rather more rigorous in their following of the Koran than he is
Assad was toppled for many reasons. Because you are a religious bigot, you view events through a religious prism.
You don't care for the tens of thousands he held in prisons without trial *before* the civil war started in 2011. In your mind, they are irrelevant to people's motivations. Ditto other matters. For you, religion is paramount.
I'd argue the motivations of most people are much wider than the religious viewpoint you aspire to.
You are entirely wrong on this, @HYUFD is a believer. Because of that he is able to understand the religious mindset whereas you, a non-believer (IIRC) cannot
For many people religion is not some pleasant add-on, a collection of social rituals, and it is nothing like a political opinion or a tribal affiliation. It goes to the very core of their being, such that they will endure poverty, suffering, adversity, if they are still allowed to believe and worship (if the choice is that stark), indeed some are willing to die for their faith. This may seem so weird to you that you cannot comprehend it, but it shouldn’t be so. The west was like this until the Enlightenment, hence the wars of religion, the burning of martyrs, and so forth
Islam has not had “an Enlightenment” so very many Muslims still believe in the way that Christians believed up until the late 17th century: their religion is bound up with their identity, it gives their life purpose and meaning, going without it would be unbearably painful
The inability of westerners to “get” Islam, in this manner, is at the root of many of our problems with the MENA
"whereas you, a non-believer (IIRC) cannot"
I am agnostic, not atheist. Which adds a certain complexity to your argument.
If someone 'believed' they should murder all sinister people (left-handers...), I would be aghast. Even as a right-hander.
So whilst someone like HYUFD might have their 'religious' beliefs down to their core, it does not make them right. And it gives them no right to force their beliefs on others. which is the way religions have kept check on societies in the past, and which is increasingly hard in a modern society. Which is why Latin was used for bibles in the Middle Ages - control.
HYUFD sees women as second-class citizens, who should not work and be baby-bearers. In that attitude, he is not so far away from the Muslim fanatics he hates. He is as much a religious bigot as they are, kept in check by social mores in this country.
I am married to someone raised as a Muslim. As such, I think I 'understand' Islam better than an out-and-out hater such as you. It has many attractive aspects; but as with all religions, the adherents turn what should be good into something that can be very, very bad. Like communism it is good in theory. In practice, it is terrible.
What a load of crap. Firstly, I am not 'forcing' my religious beliefs on you. Heretics like you are not burnt at the stake any longer for denying the firm belief in God and Christ and the monarch being supreme governor of our church (or the Pope if it was Mary Tudor). Nor are you fined for not attending your local C of E Parish church every Sunday as you would have been in the 16th and most of the 17th centuries.
I never said women should never work, however there is no doubt that more women in full time work at peak fertility rate in their 20s and 30s and motherhood age has lowered our birthrate to below replacement level.
You can't be a heretic for not believing in a false god....just saying....the word you were looking for instead was sane
Obviously not the most-read article on the Spectator, that has remained the same for the last 72 hours, but still good. It hints that the Syrian drama may actually menace the Tehran regime in the end (emphasis on “may”)
If the toppling of Assad really does lead to the end of the hideous Iranian regime then I will genuinely celebrate, as that would be an uncontestable victory for humanity
Less likely, as Assad was a Shia leader in a majority Sunni nation (as Saddam on the other side was a Sunni leader in a majority Shia nation). The Iranian regime though are Shia leaders of a majority Shia nation
You make the facile assumption that for most people, religion matters more than other matters in life.
You make that assumption because you are a religious fundamentalist.
In the Middle East it does, whether you are a Shia Muslim or Sunni Muslim (or in relation to Israel a Jew) matters far more than whether you want a socialist or capitalist run economy or even the nation state
You see, you are seeing this from the perspective of a religious bigot.
Most people are not religious bigots, even in the ME.
That is your mistake.
Yes most people in the ME are flocking to gay pride parades, women wandering around the streets in very little with the authorities not batting an eye lid. They certainly don't have public beheadings, floggings or public hangings in half the ME nations either. Oh wait...
You are mistaking the people with the regimes. A mistake Assad has made over the last couple of decades.
Assad was toppled because he was a Shia dictator in a majority Sunni nation. Not because he wasn't pro LGBT enough or too socially conservative and there weren't enough women in his regime.
In reality Assad was relatively secular in ME terms, the rebels who have toppled his regime are rather more rigorous in their following of the Koran than he is
Assad is an Alawite, which is a very specific sect: they believe in a form of Trinity and consecrate wine in their ceremonies- It is a fascinating and little understood group unique to the Levant. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alawites
A friend of mine did much research on them and found them an endless source of fascination.
That’s fascinating. I had no idea they were so exotic
Notable that they are thought to derive, in part, from Sinjar province in Iraq. That’s also the home of the Yazidi….
Right up your street, all of that and Krak des Chevaliers too. Holiday in Western Syria next year? Latakia used to be very nice. Mind you so were Aleppo and Palmyra once. Still at least Damascus has survived mostly undestroyed... so far.
Yes I went in the 90s twice and I loved Syria
The souk of old Aleppo
The great lost city of palmyra
Krak des chevaliers!
The shrine of Simeon stylites
The crusader island of arwad (where I bumped into Terry jones of Monty Python - quite unexpected)
Obviously not the most-read article on the Spectator, that has remained the same for the last 72 hours, but still good. It hints that the Syrian drama may actually menace the Tehran regime in the end (emphasis on “may”)
If the toppling of Assad really does lead to the end of the hideous Iranian regime then I will genuinely celebrate, as that would be an uncontestable victory for humanity
Less likely, as Assad was a Shia leader in a majority Sunni nation (as Saddam on the other side was a Sunni leader in a majority Shia nation). The Iranian regime though are Shia leaders of a majority Shia nation
You make the facile assumption that for most people, religion matters more than other matters in life.
You make that assumption because you are a religious fundamentalist.
In the Middle East it does, whether you are a Shia Muslim or Sunni Muslim (or in relation to Israel a Jew) matters far more than whether you want a socialist or capitalist run economy or even the nation state
You see, you are seeing this from the perspective of a religious bigot.
Most people are not religious bigots, even in the ME.
That is your mistake.
Yes most people in the ME are flocking to gay pride parades, women wandering around the streets in very little with the authorities not batting an eye lid. They certainly don't have public beheadings, floggings or public hangings in half the ME nations either. Oh wait...
You are mistaking the people with the regimes. A mistake Assad has made over the last couple of decades.
Assad was toppled because he was a Shia dictator in a majority Sunni nation. Not because he wasn't pro LGBT enough or too socially conservative and there weren't enough women in his regime.
In reality Assad was relatively secular in ME terms, the rebels who have toppled his regime are rather more rigorous in their following of the Koran than he is
Assad was toppled for many reasons. Because you are a religious bigot, you view events through a religious prism.
You don't care for the tens of thousands he held in prisons without trial *before* the civil war started in 2011. In your mind, they are irrelevant to people's motivations. Ditto other matters. For you, religion is paramount.
I'd argue the motivations of most people are much wider than the religious viewpoint you aspire to.
You are entirely wrong on this, @HYUFD is a believer. Because of that he is able to understand the religious mindset whereas you, a non-believer (IIRC) cannot
For many people religion is not some pleasant add-on, a collection of social rituals, and it is nothing like a political opinion or a tribal affiliation. It goes to the very core of their being, such that they will endure poverty, suffering, adversity, if they are still allowed to believe and worship (if the choice is that stark), indeed some are willing to die for their faith. This may seem so weird to you that you cannot comprehend it, but it shouldn’t be so. The west was like this until the Enlightenment, hence the wars of religion, the burning of martyrs, and so forth
Islam has not had “an Enlightenment” so very many Muslims still believe in the way that Christians believed up until the late 17th century: their religion is bound up with their identity, it gives their life purpose and meaning, going without it would be unbearably painful
The inability of westerners to “get” Islam, in this manner, is at the root of many of our problems with the MENA
"whereas you, a non-believer (IIRC) cannot"
I am agnostic, not atheist. Which adds a certain complexity to your argument.
If someone 'believed' they should murder all sinister people (left-handers...), I would be aghast. Even as a right-hander.
So whilst someone like HYUFD might have their 'religious' beliefs down to their core, it does not make them right. And it gives them no right to force their beliefs on others. which is the way religions have kept check on societies in the past, and which is increasingly hard in a modern society. Which is why Latin was used for bibles in the Middle Ages - control.
HYUFD sees women as second-class citizens, who should not work and be baby-bearers. In that attitude, he is not so far away from the Muslim fanatics he hates. He is as much a religious bigot as they are, kept in check by social mores in this country.
I am married to someone raised as a Muslim. As such, I think I 'understand' Islam better than an out-and-out hater such as you. It has many attractive aspects; but as with all religions, the adherents turn what should be good into something that can be very, very bad. Like communism it is good in theory. In practice, it is terrible.
What a load of crap. Firstly, I am not 'forcing' my religious beliefs on you. Heretics like you are not burnt at the stake any longer for denying the firm belief in God and Christ and the monarch being supreme governor of our church (or the Pope if it was Mary Tudor). Nor are you fined for not attending your local C of E Parish church every Sunday as you would have been in the 16th and most of the 17th centuries.
I never said women should never work, however there is no doubt that more women in full time work at peak fertility rate in their 20s and 30s and motherhood age has lowered our birthrate to below replacement level.
I am not sure Jesus would like anyone to be burnt at the stake, and certainly He would be far more forgiving, kind and generous than anything I have read you say about Christianity
"Let he who is without PB cast the first AV thread!"
That's Probabilities III isn't it? Or possibly Mike's letter to the bookmakers?
Obviously not the most-read article on the Spectator, that has remained the same for the last 72 hours, but still good. It hints that the Syrian drama may actually menace the Tehran regime in the end (emphasis on “may”)
If the toppling of Assad really does lead to the end of the hideous Iranian regime then I will genuinely celebrate, as that would be an uncontestable victory for humanity
Less likely, as Assad was a Shia leader in a majority Sunni nation (as Saddam on the other side was a Sunni leader in a majority Shia nation). The Iranian regime though are Shia leaders of a majority Shia nation
You make the facile assumption that for most people, religion matters more than other matters in life.
You make that assumption because you are a religious fundamentalist.
In the Middle East it does, whether you are a Shia Muslim or Sunni Muslim (or in relation to Israel a Jew) matters far more than whether you want a socialist or capitalist run economy or even the nation state
You see, you are seeing this from the perspective of a religious bigot.
Most people are not religious bigots, even in the ME.
That is your mistake.
Yes most people in the ME are flocking to gay pride parades, women wandering around the streets in very little with the authorities not batting an eye lid. They certainly don't have public beheadings, floggings or public hangings in half the ME nations either. Oh wait...
You are mistaking the people with the regimes. A mistake Assad has made over the last couple of decades.
Assad was toppled because he was a Shia dictator in a majority Sunni nation. Not because he wasn't pro LGBT enough or too socially conservative and there weren't enough women in his regime.
In reality Assad was relatively secular in ME terms, the rebels who have toppled his regime are rather more rigorous in their following of the Koran than he is
Assad was toppled for many reasons. Because you are a religious bigot, you view events through a religious prism.
You don't care for the tens of thousands he held in prisons without trial *before* the civil war started in 2011. In your mind, they are irrelevant to people's motivations. Ditto other matters. For you, religion is paramount.
I'd argue the motivations of most people are much wider than the religious viewpoint you aspire to.
You are entirely wrong on this, @HYUFD is a believer. Because of that he is able to understand the religious mindset whereas you, a non-believer (IIRC) cannot
For many people religion is not some pleasant add-on, a collection of social rituals, and it is nothing like a political opinion or a tribal affiliation. It goes to the very core of their being, such that they will endure poverty, suffering, adversity, if they are still allowed to believe and worship (if the choice is that stark), indeed some are willing to die for their faith. This may seem so weird to you that you cannot comprehend it, but it shouldn’t be so. The west was like this until the Enlightenment, hence the wars of religion, the burning of martyrs, and so forth
Islam has not had “an Enlightenment” so very many Muslims still believe in the way that Christians believed up until the late 17th century: their religion is bound up with their identity, it gives their life purpose and meaning, going without it would be unbearably painful
The inability of westerners to “get” Islam, in this manner, is at the root of many of our problems with the MENA
"whereas you, a non-believer (IIRC) cannot"
I am agnostic, not atheist. Which adds a certain complexity to your argument.
If someone 'believed' they should murder all sinister people (left-handers...), I would be aghast. Even as a right-hander.
So whilst someone like HYUFD might have their 'religious' beliefs down to their core, it does not make them right. And it gives them no right to force their beliefs on others. which is the way religions have kept check on societies in the past, and which is increasingly hard in a modern society. Which is why Latin was used for bibles in the Middle Ages - control.
HYUFD sees women as second-class citizens, who should not work and be baby-bearers. In that attitude, he is not so far away from the Muslim fanatics he hates. He is as much a religious bigot as they are, kept in check by social mores in this country.
I am married to someone raised as a Muslim. As such, I think I 'understand' Islam better than an out-and-out hater such as you. It has many attractive aspects; but as with all religions, the adherents turn what should be good into something that can be very, very bad. Like communism it is good in theory. In practice, it is terrible.
What a load of crap. Firstly, I am not 'forcing' my religious beliefs on you. Heretics like you are not burnt at the stake any longer for denying the firm belief in God and Christ and the monarch being supreme governor of our church (or the Pope if it was Mary Tudor). Nor are you fined for not attending your local C of E Parish church every Sunday as you would have been in the 16th and most of the 17th centuries.
I never said women should never work, however there is no doubt that more women in full time work at peak fertility rate in their 20s and 30s and motherhood age has lowered our birthrate to below replacement level.
I am not sure Jesus would like anyone to be burnt at the stake, and certainly He would be far more forgiving, kind and generous than anything I have read you say about Christianity
John 8:7 And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, “Let him who has sinned be burnt at the stake.”
~ The Bible, HYUFD-edition.
Sadly death by burning for extramarital sex is in Genesis.
I think the first documented death by burning for Christian heresy is from the 7th century (Eastern Roman Empire) and 1022 in Western Europe.
If Christ hadn't wanted this to happen then perhaps he ought to have sent a sign during the hundreds of years it continued for.
Obviously not the most-read article on the Spectator, that has remained the same for the last 72 hours, but still good. It hints that the Syrian drama may actually menace the Tehran regime in the end (emphasis on “may”)
If the toppling of Assad really does lead to the end of the hideous Iranian regime then I will genuinely celebrate, as that would be an uncontestable victory for humanity
Less likely, as Assad was a Shia leader in a majority Sunni nation (as Saddam on the other side was a Sunni leader in a majority Shia nation). The Iranian regime though are Shia leaders of a majority Shia nation
You make the facile assumption that for most people, religion matters more than other matters in life.
You make that assumption because you are a religious fundamentalist.
In the Middle East it does, whether you are a Shia Muslim or Sunni Muslim (or in relation to Israel a Jew) matters far more than whether you want a socialist or capitalist run economy or even the nation state
You see, you are seeing this from the perspective of a religious bigot.
Most people are not religious bigots, even in the ME.
That is your mistake.
Yes most people in the ME are flocking to gay pride parades, women wandering around the streets in very little with the authorities not batting an eye lid. They certainly don't have public beheadings, floggings or public hangings in half the ME nations either. Oh wait...
You are mistaking the people with the regimes. A mistake Assad has made over the last couple of decades.
Assad was toppled because he was a Shia dictator in a majority Sunni nation. Not because he wasn't pro LGBT enough or too socially conservative and there weren't enough women in his regime.
In reality Assad was relatively secular in ME terms, the rebels who have toppled his regime are rather more rigorous in their following of the Koran than he is
Assad is an Alawite, which is a very specific sect: they believe in a form of Trinity and consecrate wine in their ceremonies- It is a fascinating and little understood group unique to the Levant. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alawites
A friend of mine did much research on them and found them an endless source of fascination.
That’s fascinating. I had no idea they were so exotic
Notable that they are thought to derive, in part, from Sinjar province in Iraq. That’s also the home of the Yazidi….
Right up your street, all of that and Krak des Chevaliers too. Holiday in Western Syria next year? Latakia used to be very nice. Mind you so were Aleppo and Palmyra once. Still at least Damascus has survived mostly undestroyed... so far.
Yes I went in the 90s twice and I loved Syria
The souk of old Aleppo
The great lost city of palmyra
Krak des chevaliers!
The shrine of Simeon stylites
The crusader island of arwad (where I bumped into Terry jones of Monty Python - quite unexpected)
It was marvellous. Sigh….
Well, it's always possible that something wonderful and sensible might emerge from the mess. Look at France. There was a similar opportunity there. Just because that didn't work out...
Obviously not the most-read article on the Spectator, that has remained the same for the last 72 hours, but still good. It hints that the Syrian drama may actually menace the Tehran regime in the end (emphasis on “may”)
If the toppling of Assad really does lead to the end of the hideous Iranian regime then I will genuinely celebrate, as that would be an uncontestable victory for humanity
Less likely, as Assad was a Shia leader in a majority Sunni nation (as Saddam on the other side was a Sunni leader in a majority Shia nation). The Iranian regime though are Shia leaders of a majority Shia nation
You make the facile assumption that for most people, religion matters more than other matters in life.
You make that assumption because you are a religious fundamentalist.
In the Middle East it does, whether you are a Shia Muslim or Sunni Muslim (or in relation to Israel a Jew) matters far more than whether you want a socialist or capitalist run economy or even the nation state
You see, you are seeing this from the perspective of a religious bigot.
Most people are not religious bigots, even in the ME.
That is your mistake.
Yes most people in the ME are flocking to gay pride parades, women wandering around the streets in very little with the authorities not batting an eye lid. They certainly don't have public beheadings, floggings or public hangings in half the ME nations either. Oh wait...
You are mistaking the people with the regimes. A mistake Assad has made over the last couple of decades.
Assad was toppled because he was a Shia dictator in a majority Sunni nation. Not because he wasn't pro LGBT enough or too socially conservative and there weren't enough women in his regime.
In reality Assad was relatively secular in ME terms, the rebels who have toppled his regime are rather more rigorous in their following of the Koran than he is
Assad is an Alawite, which is a very specific sect: they believe in a form of Trinity and consecrate wine in their ceremonies- It is a fascinating and little understood group unique to the Levant. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alawites
A friend of mine did much research on them and found them an endless source of fascination.
That’s fascinating. I had no idea they were so exotic
Notable that they are thought to derive, in part, from Sinjar province in Iraq. That’s also the home of the Yazidi….
Right up your street, all of that and Krak des Chevaliers too. Holiday in Western Syria next year? Latakia used to be very nice. Mind you so were Aleppo and Palmyra once. Still at least Damascus has survived mostly undestroyed... so far.
Yes I went in the 90s twice and I loved Syria
The souk of old Aleppo
The great lost city of palmyra
Krak des chevaliers!
The shrine of Simeon stylites
The crusader island of arwad (where I bumped into Terry jones of Monty Python - quite unexpected)
It was marvellous. Sigh….
Yes, a beautiful place and generally pleasant people. Alas.
Comments
Some retained the colonial monarchical setups.
Bathtubism and its relatives failed. They were crappy dictatorships which didn’t deliver anything. Israel repeatedly knocking the stuffing out of some of them, emphasised their uselessness.
Syria was the last stand of the Tubists
So politics around secular government was see to have failed. Into this gap stepped variations on revivalist Islam - Come Back To God and all will be spiffing. If it doesn’t work, we obviously need More God.
Most of the monarchies still standing have trimmed their sails towards More God.
There’s not much you can do about the More God types, apart from let it burn itself out - as in Iran.
for one thing, I quite like women...
You think it needs demonstrating?
"The interviewers asked which candidate the applicants had supported in the three most recent elections, what they thought about the events of Jan. 6, 2021, and whether they believed the 2020 election was stolen. The sense they got was that there was only one right answer to each question."
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/07/us/politics/trump-administration-loyalty-test.html?smtyp=cur&smid=bsky-nytimes
Of course this is not to say she didn't make some big mistakes. All big political figures make big mistakes. It comes with the territory. And people can debate that for Merkel, the weighted average scorecard, if they are so inclined.
For many people religion is not some pleasant add-on, a collection of social rituals, and it is nothing like a political opinion or a tribal affiliation. It goes to the very core of their being, such that they will endure poverty, suffering, adversity, if they are still allowed to believe and worship (if the choice is that stark), indeed some are willing to die for their faith. This may seem so weird to you that you cannot comprehend it, but it shouldn’t be so. The west was like this until the Enlightenment, hence the wars of religion, the burning of martyrs, and so forth
Islam has not had “an Enlightenment” so very many Muslims still believe in the way that Christians believed up until the late 17th century: their religion is bound up with their identity, it gives their life purpose and meaning, going without it would be unbearably painful
The inability of westerners to “get” Islam, in this manner, is at the root of many of our problems with the MENA
She hasn't, has she?
A friend of mine did much research on them and found them an endless source of fascination.
Shashank Joshi @shashj.bsky.social
·
18m
Kremlin to TASS: “Russian officials are in touch with representatives of armed Syrian opposition, whose leaders have guaranteed security of Russian military bases and diplomatic missions on the Syrian territory” tass.com/world/1884227
Putin was clearly no Boris Johnson.
https://x.com/mylordbebo/status/1865836508084588669?s=61&t=GGp3Vs1t1kTWDiyA-odnZg
Of course I can see why. There wil lbe a lot of innocent victims of Assad in there. But there will also be lots of radicals and ISIS members. And I wonder what now happens to Shamima Begum
Hmm, ok. But Mandy Rice Davies applies
Notable that they are thought to derive, in part, from Sinjar province in Iraq. That’s also the home of the Yazidi….
@Leon and I have travelled the world extensively [ not together ] over the years but we most definitely do not have any other connections
I expect nothing changes for her.
Dictators & their choice of exile over the years
https://nitter.poast.org/shashj/status/1865819406644969760#m
Secondly, an interesting feature on the whole of pre Constantinian Christianity (up to early 4th century) is that is seems to have little record of killing for its principles. This accords well with the tone and direction of the New Testament. It is possible then and now for religion and identity to be utterly bound together as the core of your being but have no desire for this to be a ground for killing or being killed.
“Swarms of large drones, some described as big as cars, are flying over neighborhoods in New Jersey and New York. One even flew over a meeting of Pentagon leaders in California. NBC News' George Solis has the latest.”
What the F is going on
This is not “misidentified planes, or a kid with a toy”
https://x.com/rosscoulthart/status/1865838308708003877?s=61&t=GGp3Vs1t1kTWDiyA-odnZg
If it is a mass hallucination then….. it would be the biggest and most widespread in history. I don’t believe that
So what is it??
I am agnostic, not atheist. Which adds a certain complexity to your argument.
If someone 'believed' they should murder all sinister people (left-handers...), I would be aghast. Even as a right-hander.
So whilst someone like HYUFD might have their 'religious' beliefs down to their core, it does not make them right. And it gives them no right to force their beliefs on others. which is the way religions have kept check on societies in the past, and which is increasingly hard in a modern society. Which is why Latin was used for bibles in the Middle Ages - control.
HYUFD sees women as second-class citizens, who should not work and be baby-bearers. In that attitude, he is not so far away from the Muslim fanatics he hates. He is as much a religious bigot as they are, kept in check by social mores in this country.
I am married to someone raised as a Muslim. As such, I think I 'understand' Islam better than an out-and-out hater such as you. It has many attractive aspects; but as with all religions, the adherents turn what should be good into something that can be very, very bad. Like communism it is good in theory. In practice, it is terrible.
We still haven't, but his travels are far more entertaining than @Leon's...
Assuming they and the rest of the coastal region where the Alawites are based falls who knows what reprisals the rebels will then ultimately pursue against the Alawites and their links to the Assad family
He definitely did address it.
It's been quite a week for you, hasn't it? Wrong at every step.
It's reached 18 once; I turn it down to 12 when I go to work and 15 when I go to bed
I did the same before it all got more expensive
What temperatures do you do?
We can solve this
The USA is being swarmed by large numbers of CAR SIZED DRONES THAT NO ONE CAN UNDERSTAND
They have now been filmed and witnessed by hundreds if not thousands of people. There are now quite clear images
The USA - the USA! - seems at a loss. No one can explain them. I’m starting to wonder if this is connected with THE MASSIVE FUCKING OWL I saw, inexplicably, in the centre of Santa Cruz de Mompox - it would finally make sense
So what are they?
i see five explanations
1. This is a mass hallucination (across the USA and in the UK?)
2. This is American psy-ops to hide American super-tech
3. This is the Russians or the Chinese
4. This is some non state actor (criminal gangs? Elon Musk??) with amazing tech doing something we don’t understand
5. This is of non human origin
It used to be 18, but be warned damp can become a bit of an issue over a long period at that temperature.
When I am at work, and overnight (9pm to about 6am) the heating is off.
Indeed Hezbollah has been pulling forces out of the Damascus outskirts, sending some to Latakia
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/hezbollah-pulling-forces-out-of-damascus-outskirts-sending-some-to-latakia/
I am in this argument for the long haul, even if it takes a year, 5 years or a decade
After 10 years of living in mouldy tenements, I think it's the perfect example of how a little capital investment (£200) can improve your life significantly.
Obviously the Aliens ravenously absorb Earth Culture. It's probably why they are here.
"Dude - your ship looks like a aluminium disc. That's so 60s retro, man. Get with the program, or you'll be one of those sad types with driving gloves on 8 of your tentacles, polishing your disc at vintage rallies off Beta Reticula."
Headline story is obviously the fact one third of 2024 Labour voters currently say they wouldn't vote Labour, but also notable just 13% of Labour 'defectors' are switching to the Conservatives.
The largest chunk of Labour losses are 'out of voting', i.e., to Don't Know or Would Not Vote, which comprise more than 40% of the 'defections'.
The rest is largely made up of four similarly sized chunks moving to the Tories, Lib Dems, Reform and Greens.
This is the story seen in fundamentals polling too. There is clear public dissatisfaction with the Labour government, with ratings falling on leadership, economy, wider issues, etc. But Tory numbers aren't really rising and it is others - primarily Reform - who are benefitting.
Though, while true that Reform are taking some voters from Labour, the idea that Labour down, Reform up is solely down to Lab -> Ref movement is wrong. Reform are still - both in raw and proportional terms - gaining more voters from the Tories, at least at the moment.
https://x.com/Dylan_Difford/status/1865845620084187195
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/bZWNDcmhkug
https://youtu.be/cjGHpS1meFE?si=YewDCfKGM6J_3rVh
Makes the very good point, if these drones are “the size of SUVs” and they are “hovering for hours” why doesn’t someone in the US - the USAF or a police chopper. - simply follow where they go when they stop their creepy-ass hovering. Presumably if they land in the garden of a drone hobbyist you have your man. If they go out to sea to a Chinese submarine, equally
And if they morph into a ball of cyberplasm and shoot up into the sky towards Betelgeuse at 39,000 mph, we also have a new clue
But I bet our heating costs were lower than most: Insulation, Insulation, Air-tightness.
(*That's our old house tbf - not the one we are currently renting while we build our new one.)
It would be one of the greatest student pranks in history. Also they managed to do it in the UK, as well (tho of course this may be contagion or coincidence)
I never said women should never work, however there is no doubt that more women in full time work at peak fertility rate in their 20s and 30s and motherhood age has lowered our birthrate to below replacement level.
Then I measured the temperature by the thermostat with a proper thermometer, and found that when the thermostat was set to 17C, it actually turned the heating on when it fell below 20C.
Now I don't believe anyone's thermostat stories unless they've independently measured the temperature with a properly calibrated thermometer.
You want to impose your religious choices on others. You do all the time.
https://aviationweek.com/aerospace/advanced-air-mobility/pivotal-slips-helix-deliveries-improve-personal-evtol
A personal electric aircraft with vertical take off and landing. Not from Neptune
How come I was able to work this out in 20 minutes in a hotel in Cartagena but the editorial staff of NBC news were not?
If only there were a term for that.
How come I was able to work this out in 20 seconds and you could not?
Labour though losing almost as many July Labour voters to Reform as the Tories are but picking up no Reform voters in response.
For every 3 of their July voters lost to the Tories Labour also only picking up 1 July Tory voter in response.
Labour has also lost voters to the Greens and LDs
And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, “Let him who has sinned be burnt at the stake.”
~ The Bible, HYUFD-edition.
In a democracy religious people are as entitled to exercise their vote based on what they believe as you atheists are
They were built by Cotswold Oak not Barratt.
Maybe one day you'll learn enough to realise why the rest of us aren't interested.
The souk of old Aleppo
The great lost city of palmyra
Krak des chevaliers!
The shrine of Simeon stylites
The crusader island of arwad (where I bumped into Terry jones of Monty Python - quite unexpected)
It was marvellous. Sigh….
I think the first documented death by burning for Christian heresy is from the 7th century (Eastern Roman Empire) and 1022 in Western Europe.
If Christ hadn't wanted this to happen then perhaps he ought to have sent a sign during the hundreds of years it continued for.