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Braverman set to defect to Reform (no, not that one, yet) – politicalbetting.com

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  • Sandpit said:

    The government wants to introduce a digital ID that lives on your phone rather than a physical card. You can then verify your identity that way.

    Seems eminently sensible to me.

    Isn’t there already enough phone theft, without wanting to encourage a lot more of it?

    Just imagine how good bad life would be if your monthly benefits payment relied on not having your phone stolen.
    In 10 years, people will say it's very odd that everything isn't on your phone. Like with cash, things are going one way. Accept it, or get left behind.
  • xyzxyzxyz said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    The government wants to introduce a digital ID that lives on your phone rather than a physical card. You can then verify your identity that way.

    Seems eminently sensible to me.

    Amazing what we seem to have money for - someone told me there was a £22bn black hole.
    This would be really quite cheap to produce, as it is digital. No doubt HMG will find some way to make it cost 8 trillion, but it shouldn’t

    I used to be fiercely anti-ID cards, but given how much data we now yield to tech corporations on an hourly basis, including our precise LOCATION, I can’t be arsed to oppose them any more. A digital ID that allows you to access government online, and prove your entitlement to NHS care, benefits, etc, makes a load of sense

    It will also be an excellent way of beginning the long overdue crackdown on migration and asylum
    FFS, it's not like the physical cost of something is ever the reason it's expensive. GTA VI is going to cost $2 billion to make, and that's just a downloadable game.
    No, digital should be cheaper. You just assign a QR code for every UK citizen, along with some unique password stored elsewhere. Put it on a digital card on your phone, also stored it the cloud, Pay amazon to host it. Add a what3words to tell HMG where you sleep, what corner of the bed etc

    That’s it. You gotta have that to access anything to do with HMG, hospital care, doctors, benefits, crossing unsold bridges, using motorways, being protected by the British army. The added advantage of this is that old and stupid people without smartphones or who can’t cope with digital stuff will be refused medical care and they will gradually be winnowed out, thus decreasing the burden on the state of the old and the stupid
    It is UN digital id so the software probably already exists.

    Dystopian fascism comes alive on pb.com..🥴 Why should I be forced to obey the state..the state is supposed to be subservient to the voters, not the other way round..as V In Vendetta might say ."People should not be afraid of their government.. government should be afraid of the people..🧐

  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,268

    Leon said:

    Quite honestly I hate to say it but at this point I’d vote Reform UK over the Tories. They at least made some attempt to appeal to me even if all of their solutions are wrong.

    All the way from Corbyn to Farage is some journey !!!!!
    A lot of young people are making that journey. They despair at their lack of opportunities, particularly re housing. Corbyn sounded like he might solve that, but it turned out he was a pitiful nutter

    Now Nigel offers a solution, and at least his has the power of logic. If you stop 1 million people entering the country every year, the pressure on house prices will dissipate fast
    No, it won’t.

    We are 8 million homes short. If we had new zero immigration it would take multiple decades for population decrease to close the gap.
    Net zero isn’t a floor. Until Blair we had net emigration most of the time and there’s no reason we can’t follow Sweden and do it now.

    To start with, anyone given asylum from the Assad regime can now go back.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496

    Leon said:

    Good article on the Syrian Implications for Iran

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/this-is-irans-annus-horribilis/

    Obviously not the most-read article on the Spectator, that has remained the same for the last 72 hours, but still good. It hints that the Syrian drama may actually menace the Tehran regime in the end (emphasis on “may”)

    If the toppling of Assad really does lead to the end of the hideous Iranian regime then I will genuinely celebrate, as that would be an uncontestable victory for humanity

    We simply don't know where this is going to end up in the short, medium or long term. We can hope, but not know.

    We can also encourage the new regime(s) in a pro-western direction; but that is all we can do: encourage.

    It is up to Syrians. And that, in a sad way, is progress.

    (I'm still interested in what is going to happen to Russian and Iranian/Hezbollah troops in Syria)
    Agreed on the Russians. What is happening right now in that Russian port? Tartus? That must be quite intense right now, as the Russians are - I presume - forced to flee like the Yanks out of Nam
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,942
    edited December 8

    Leon said:

    Quite honestly I hate to say it but at this point I’d vote Reform UK over the Tories. They at least made some attempt to appeal to me even if all of their solutions are wrong.

    All the way from Corbyn to Farage is some journey !!!!!
    A lot of young people are making that journey. They despair at their lack of opportunities, particularly re housing. Corbyn sounded like he might solve that, but it turned out he was a pitiful nutter

    Now Nigel offers a solution, and at least his has the power of logic. If you stop 1 million people entering the country every year, the pressure on house prices will dissipate fast
    No, it won’t.

    We are 8 million homes short. If we had new zero immigration it would take multiple decades for population decrease to close the gap.
    Don't make me post the French stats again ;)

    I've already demonstrated that, despite having that many more homes, their costs are the same or even higher. And our homebuilding has been even faster than our population growth.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,442

    Leon said:

    Quite honestly I hate to say it but at this point I’d vote Reform UK over the Tories. They at least made some attempt to appeal to me even if all of their solutions are wrong.

    All the way from Corbyn to Farage is some journey !!!!!
    A lot of young people are making that journey. They despair at their lack of opportunities, particularly re housing. Corbyn sounded like he might solve that, but it turned out he was a pitiful nutter

    Now Nigel offers a solution, and at least his has the power of logic. If you stop 1 million people entering the country every year, the pressure on house prices will dissipate fast
    No, it won’t.

    We are 8 million homes short. If we had new zero immigration it would take multiple decades for population decrease to close the gap.
    Hard right governments are pretty good at doing things that reduce the population.

    After all, they need some sort of distraction when their first few years in power fail to solve the problems of the nation.
  • Shecorns88Shecorns88 Posts: 279

    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    FF43 said:

    Leon said:

    The more narcissistic basically evil, I the case of Braverman, nut jobs join Reform, better for Labour.

    Reform go further and further to the Rabid Right and the more Badenochs Tories and her disgraced Right flank and Reform tear strips off each other trying to be worker than woke and more anti anti establishment.

    Keir meanwhile gets his head down and grafts grafts grafts boringly but relentless steady slow improvement.

    Turning the NHS around, increasing House Building, reducing net migration, clearing the Tory Asylum backlogs.

    Interest rates slip quietly down, mortgage base rate slips in the 3.somethings, god forbid a few tax reductions in the form of slowly increasing tax thresholds, wealth and windfall taxes on the greedy for the needy.

    The massive UK tanker, slowly turned around.

    By 2028 what is the solution, rabid Right or steady solid dependable Left...

    Nah, Labour are fucked. Look how they are already cratering in Scotland. Starmer hasn’t the charisma, wit or ideas to get anything done. One term
    He might get loads done but it wont be enough. The message from Biden loss is loud and clear: being able to point at a long list of technocratic things you've done and how good the GDP is, or how high the % of widgets produced this term is not worth gnats piss in the new political era.

    Thing is, if Labour goes, it means we're done with liberal democracy. Conservatives won't be able to convince anyone, actually we're fine now. So we end up with Reform. And if anyone thinks that's a recipe for sorting things out, I would have a bridge to sell you.

    Except Nigel is selling it already.
    Piling speculation upon a heapm of them, it would be interesting to see what happened if Reform had the chance to show us that simple answers are not available to intractable questions thrown up by modernity.

    I have no idea what Reform would do, and nor do they, but its current policies consist of: continuation of post 1945 social democracy (at the moment there is nothing else that can get voters voting), + national populism + stop importing the workers who produce the laborious work of that social democracy UK residents don't feel like doing + funding done by milking unicorns.

    Best guess: have a look at Italy and Argentina
    I just wonder if we have to accept a Reform government now. Hope it’s a success in which case I’ll cheer it on, otherwise they’ll crash and burn and something will hopefully recover from the ashes.
    Thats just what Germans and Italians said in the 1930s

    We cannot allow Fascism to entrench in the UK.
    And yet you have a well known fascist calling card in your username, which isn't a coincidence given who is behind your account.
    oooh, Sherlock!

    Who is behind @Shecorns88???
    You.

    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    FF43 said:

    Leon said:

    The more narcissistic basically evil, I the case of Braverman, nut jobs join Reform, better for Labour.

    Reform go further and further to the Rabid Right and the more Badenochs Tories and her disgraced Right flank and Reform tear strips off each other trying to be worker than woke and more anti anti establishment.

    Keir meanwhile gets his head down and grafts grafts grafts boringly but relentless steady slow improvement.

    Turning the NHS around, increasing House Building, reducing net migration, clearing the Tory Asylum backlogs.

    Interest rates slip quietly down, mortgage base rate slips in the 3.somethings, god forbid a few tax reductions in the form of slowly increasing tax thresholds, wealth and windfall taxes on the greedy for the needy.

    The massive UK tanker, slowly turned around.

    By 2028 what is the solution, rabid Right or steady solid dependable Left...

    Nah, Labour are fucked. Look how they are already cratering in Scotland. Starmer hasn’t the charisma, wit or ideas to get anything done. One term
    He might get loads done but it wont be enough. The message from Biden loss is loud and clear: being able to point at a long list of technocratic things you've done and how good the GDP is, or how high the % of widgets produced this term is not worth gnats piss in the new political era.

    Thing is, if Labour goes, it means we're done with liberal democracy. Conservatives won't be able to convince anyone, actually we're fine now. So we end up with Reform. And if anyone thinks that's a recipe for sorting things out, I would have a bridge to sell you.

    Except Nigel is selling it already.
    Piling speculation upon a heapm of them, it would be interesting to see what happened if Reform had the chance to show us that simple answers are not available to intractable questions thrown up by modernity.

    I have no idea what Reform would do, and nor do they, but its current policies consist of: continuation of post 1945 social democracy (at the moment there is nothing else that can get voters voting), + national populism + stop importing the workers who produce the laborious work of that social democracy UK residents don't feel like doing + funding done by milking unicorns.

    Best guess: have a look at Italy and Argentina
    I just wonder if we have to accept a Reform government now. Hope it’s a success in which case I’ll cheer it on, otherwise they’ll crash and burn and something will hopefully recover from the ashes.
    Thats just what Germans and Italians said in the 1930s

    We cannot allow Fascism to entrench in the UK.
    And yet you have a well known fascist calling card in your username, which isn't a coincidence given who is behind your account.
    oooh, Sherlock!

    Who is behind @Shecorns88???
    You.
    Has it not dawned on anyone that there may actually be a completely independent largely left of centre but with a few actually right wing views who has legitimately joined this platform having watched from a distance for some time.

    From a distance largely because I wasn't receiving joining confirmation mails to my Gmail account, caused I believe by a known technical blip
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,268
    Assad not dead.

    https://x.com/sentdefender/status/1865816946123366614

    Russian State Media Agency, TASS reports that Former Syrian President Bashar al-Assad and his Family have arrived in Moscow, where they have been granted Political Asylum.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Quite honestly I hate to say it but at this point I’d vote Reform UK over the Tories. They at least made some attempt to appeal to me even if all of their solutions are wrong.

    All the way from Corbyn to Farage is some journey !!!!!
    A lot of young people are making that journey. They despair at their lack of opportunities, particularly re housing. Corbyn sounded like he might solve that, but it turned out he was a pitiful nutter

    Now Nigel offers a solution, and at least his has the power of logic. If you stop 1 million people entering the country every year, the pressure on house prices will dissipate fast
    No, it won’t.

    We are 8 million homes short. If we had new zero immigration it would take multiple decades for population decrease to close the gap.
    But it would certainly help, and make our house building target much more achievable. If the population is not increasing by 1m a year then suddenly you don’t have to build a trillion homes just to stay still
    Even if so, we should still build a lot more right now, as no point in waiting on the immigration issue given that won't itself resolve the problem, even if some would use the latter to delay the former.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972

    Leon said:

    Quite honestly I hate to say it but at this point I’d vote Reform UK over the Tories. They at least made some attempt to appeal to me even if all of their solutions are wrong.

    All the way from Corbyn to Farage is some journey !!!!!
    A lot of young people are making that journey. They despair at their lack of opportunities, particularly re housing. Corbyn sounded like he might solve that, but it turned out he was a pitiful nutter

    Now Nigel offers a solution, and at least his has the power of logic. If you stop 1 million people entering the country every year, the pressure on house prices will dissipate fast
    No, it won’t.

    We are 8 million homes short. If we had new zero immigration it would take multiple decades for population decrease to close the gap.
    But every single immigrant who isn’t a net contributor only makes the problem worse.

    Sort out the housing problem then allow more immigration. In that order.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,864
    Leon said:

    Good article on the Syrian Implications for Iran

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/this-is-irans-annus-horribilis/

    Obviously not the most-read article on the Spectator, that has remained the same for the last 72 hours, but still good. It hints that the Syrian drama may actually menace the Tehran regime in the end (emphasis on “may”)

    If the toppling of Assad really does lead to the end of the hideous Iranian regime then I will genuinely celebrate, as that would be an uncontestable victory for humanity

    Less likely, as Assad was a Shia leader in a majority Sunni nation (as Saddam on the other side was a Sunni leader in a majority Shia nation). The Iranian regime though are Shia leaders of a majority Shia nation
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,990
    Leon said:

    The government wants to introduce a digital ID that lives on your phone rather than a physical card. You can then verify your identity that way.

    Seems eminently sensible to me.

    Amazing what we seem to have money for - someone told me there was a £22bn black hole.
    This would be really quite cheap to produce, as it is digital. No doubt HMG will find some way to make it cost 8 trillion, but it shouldn’t

    I used to be fiercely anti-ID cards, but given how much data we now yield to tech corporations on an hourly basis, including our precise LOCATION, I can’t be arsed to oppose them any more. A digital ID that allows you to accesss government online, and prove your entitlement to NHS care, benefits, etc, makes a load of sense

    It will also be an excellent way of beginning the long overdue crackdown on migration and asylum
    Clue you choose to yield it....many of us tell these companies to fuck off. I have a mobile phone...location data is off....I don't carry it with me in any case when I go out and this is the only social media I do. I don't have a facebook account, a twitter account....just because you give your data away like a dockside hooker gives her stds away doesn't mean the rest of us have to
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578

    Assad not dead.

    https://x.com/sentdefender/status/1865816946123366614

    Russian State Media Agency, TASS reports that Former Syrian President Bashar al-Assad and his Family have arrived in Moscow, where they have been granted Political Asylum.

    Viktor Yanukovych and Bashar al-Assad about to start a podcast together called “2 Losers in Moscow”
    https://nitter.poast.org/OzKaterji/status/1865726082152063215#m
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,433
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Good article on the Syrian Implications for Iran

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/this-is-irans-annus-horribilis/

    Obviously not the most-read article on the Spectator, that has remained the same for the last 72 hours, but still good. It hints that the Syrian drama may actually menace the Tehran regime in the end (emphasis on “may”)

    If the toppling of Assad really does lead to the end of the hideous Iranian regime then I will genuinely celebrate, as that would be an uncontestable victory for humanity

    We simply don't know where this is going to end up in the short, medium or long term. We can hope, but not know.

    We can also encourage the new regime(s) in a pro-western direction; but that is all we can do: encourage.

    It is up to Syrians. And that, in a sad way, is progress.

    (I'm still interested in what is going to happen to Russian and Iranian/Hezbollah troops in Syria)
    Agreed on the Russians. What is happening right now in that Russian port? Tartus? That must be quite intense right now, as the Russians are - I presume - forced to flee like the Yanks out of Nam
    If whoever is in charge of that area is wise, he might allow an orderly withdrawal - if the Russians allow that option.

    At a larger level: there is a chance that Russia might be allowed to keep their bases in the medium term. That would be an indication - a negative one IMV - of the new regime's priorities, given Russia has been their enemy.
  • Has it not dawned on anyone that there may actually be a completely independent largely left of centre but with a few actually right wing views who has legitimately joined this platform having watched from a distance for some time.

    From a distance largely because I wasn't receiving joining confirmation mails to my Gmail account, caused I believe by a known technical blip

    Sean, I know you like to come on here with multiple accounts with different personalities and different political views and frankly I found it very annoying initially but now find it quite entertaining.

    But it just means I have no idea if what you say, you believe. So you'll forgive me for taking literally anything you say with a pinch of salt.

    I think literally the only legitimate SKS supporter on this board, is me.
  • xyzxyzxyzxyzxyzxyz Posts: 76

    xyzxyzxyz said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    The government wants to introduce a digital ID that lives on your phone rather than a physical card. You can then verify your identity that way.

    Seems eminently sensible to me.

    Amazing what we seem to have money for - someone told me there was a £22bn black hole.
    This would be really quite cheap to produce, as it is digital. No doubt HMG will find some way to make it cost 8 trillion, but it shouldn’t

    I used to be fiercely anti-ID cards, but given how much data we now yield to tech corporations on an hourly basis, including our precise LOCATION, I can’t be arsed to oppose them any more. A digital ID that allows you to access government online, and prove your entitlement to NHS care, benefits, etc, makes a load of sense

    It will also be an excellent way of beginning the long overdue crackdown on migration and asylum
    FFS, it's not like the physical cost of something is ever the reason it's expensive. GTA VI is going to cost $2 billion to make, and that's just a downloadable game.
    No, digital should be cheaper. You just assign a QR code for every UK citizen, along with some unique password stored elsewhere. Put it on a digital card on your phone, also stored it the cloud, Pay amazon to host it. Add a what3words to tell HMG where you sleep, what corner of the bed etc

    That’s it. You gotta have that to access anything to do with HMG, hospital care, doctors, benefits, crossing unsold bridges, using motorways, being protected by the British army. The added advantage of this is that old and stupid people without smartphones or who can’t cope with digital stuff will be refused medical care and they will gradually be winnowed out, thus decreasing the burden on the state of the old and the stupid
    It is UN digital id so the software probably already exists.

    Dystopian fascism comes alive on pb.com..🥴 Why should I be forced to obey the state..the state is supposed to be subservient to the voters, not the other way round..as V In Vendetta might say ."People should not be afraid of their government.. government should be afraid of the people..🧐

    Why is the government of any colour subservient to the UN?

  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496

    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    FF43 said:

    Leon said:

    The more narcissistic basically evil, I the case of Braverman, nut jobs join Reform, better for Labour.

    Reform go further and further to the Rabid Right and the more Badenochs Tories and her disgraced Right flank and Reform tear strips off each other trying to be worker than woke and more anti anti establishment.

    Keir meanwhile gets his head down and grafts grafts grafts boringly but relentless steady slow improvement.

    Turning the NHS around, increasing House Building, reducing net migration, clearing the Tory Asylum backlogs.

    Interest rates slip quietly down, mortgage base rate slips in the 3.somethings, god forbid a few tax reductions in the form of slowly increasing tax thresholds, wealth and windfall taxes on the greedy for the needy.

    The massive UK tanker, slowly turned around.

    By 2028 what is the solution, rabid Right or steady solid dependable Left...

    Nah, Labour are fucked. Look how they are already cratering in Scotland. Starmer hasn’t the charisma, wit or ideas to get anything done. One term
    He might get loads done but it wont be enough. The message from Biden loss is loud and clear: being able to point at a long list of technocratic things you've done and how good the GDP is, or how high the % of widgets produced this term is not worth gnats piss in the new political era.

    Thing is, if Labour goes, it means we're done with liberal democracy. Conservatives won't be able to convince anyone, actually we're fine now. So we end up with Reform. And if anyone thinks that's a recipe for sorting things out, I would have a bridge to sell you.

    Except Nigel is selling it already.
    Piling speculation upon a heapm of them, it would be interesting to see what happened if Reform had the chance to show us that simple answers are not available to intractable questions thrown up by modernity.

    I have no idea what Reform would do, and nor do they, but its current policies consist of: continuation of post 1945 social democracy (at the moment there is nothing else that can get voters voting), + national populism + stop importing the workers who produce the laborious work of that social democracy UK residents don't feel like doing + funding done by milking unicorns.

    Best guess: have a look at Italy and Argentina
    I just wonder if we have to accept a Reform government now. Hope it’s a success in which case I’ll cheer it on, otherwise they’ll crash and burn and something will hopefully recover from the ashes.
    Thats just what Germans and Italians said in the 1930s

    We cannot allow Fascism to entrench in the UK.
    And yet you have a well known fascist calling card in your username, which isn't a coincidence given who is behind your account.
    oooh, Sherlock!

    Who is behind @Shecorns88???
    You.

    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    FF43 said:

    Leon said:

    The more narcissistic basically evil, I the case of Braverman, nut jobs join Reform, better for Labour.

    Reform go further and further to the Rabid Right and the more Badenochs Tories and her disgraced Right flank and Reform tear strips off each other trying to be worker than woke and more anti anti establishment.

    Keir meanwhile gets his head down and grafts grafts grafts boringly but relentless steady slow improvement.

    Turning the NHS around, increasing House Building, reducing net migration, clearing the Tory Asylum backlogs.

    Interest rates slip quietly down, mortgage base rate slips in the 3.somethings, god forbid a few tax reductions in the form of slowly increasing tax thresholds, wealth and windfall taxes on the greedy for the needy.

    The massive UK tanker, slowly turned around.

    By 2028 what is the solution, rabid Right or steady solid dependable Left...

    Nah, Labour are fucked. Look how they are already cratering in Scotland. Starmer hasn’t the charisma, wit or ideas to get anything done. One term
    He might get loads done but it wont be enough. The message from Biden loss is loud and clear: being able to point at a long list of technocratic things you've done and how good the GDP is, or how high the % of widgets produced this term is not worth gnats piss in the new political era.

    Thing is, if Labour goes, it means we're done with liberal democracy. Conservatives won't be able to convince anyone, actually we're fine now. So we end up with Reform. And if anyone thinks that's a recipe for sorting things out, I would have a bridge to sell you.

    Except Nigel is selling it already.
    Piling speculation upon a heapm of them, it would be interesting to see what happened if Reform had the chance to show us that simple answers are not available to intractable questions thrown up by modernity.

    I have no idea what Reform would do, and nor do they, but its current policies consist of: continuation of post 1945 social democracy (at the moment there is nothing else that can get voters voting), + national populism + stop importing the workers who produce the laborious work of that social democracy UK residents don't feel like doing + funding done by milking unicorns.

    Best guess: have a look at Italy and Argentina
    I just wonder if we have to accept a Reform government now. Hope it’s a success in which case I’ll cheer it on, otherwise they’ll crash and burn and something will hopefully recover from the ashes.
    Thats just what Germans and Italians said in the 1930s

    We cannot allow Fascism to entrench in the UK.
    And yet you have a well known fascist calling card in your username, which isn't a coincidence given who is behind your account.
    oooh, Sherlock!

    Who is behind @Shecorns88???
    You.
    Has it not dawned on anyone that there may actually be a completely independent largely left of centre but with a few actually right wing views who has legitimately joined this platform having watched from a distance for some time.

    From a distance largely because I wasn't receiving joining confirmation mails to my Gmail account, caused I believe by a known technical blip
    @Shecorns88 - tell me about it. I’m doing my best to convince them you’re real, but some of them are not the brightest. Their endless doubt of you is actually quite rude

    And by the way, welcome! I enjoy your new perspective. I disagree with much of it but you express it with concise eloquence, and it is refreshing
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Good article on the Syrian Implications for Iran

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/this-is-irans-annus-horribilis/

    Obviously not the most-read article on the Spectator, that has remained the same for the last 72 hours, but still good. It hints that the Syrian drama may actually menace the Tehran regime in the end (emphasis on “may”)

    If the toppling of Assad really does lead to the end of the hideous Iranian regime then I will genuinely celebrate, as that would be an uncontestable victory for humanity

    We simply don't know where this is going to end up in the short, medium or long term. We can hope, but not know.

    We can also encourage the new regime(s) in a pro-western direction; but that is all we can do: encourage.

    It is up to Syrians. And that, in a sad way, is progress.

    (I'm still interested in what is going to happen to Russian and Iranian/Hezbollah troops in Syria)
    Agreed on the Russians. What is happening right now in that Russian port? Tartus? That must be quite intense right now, as the Russians are - I presume - forced to flee like the Yanks out of Nam
    If whoever is in charge of that area is wise, he might allow an orderly withdrawal - if the Russians allow that option.

    At a larger level: there is a chance that Russia might be allowed to keep their bases in the medium term. That would be an indication - a negative one IMV - of the new regime's priorities, given Russia has been their enemy.
    My ignorant view would be the new regime, finding its feet, would want to do as little to provoke external powers as is possible (given by defeating Assad they've already provoked Russia's ire).
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,835
    edited December 8
    "In the end, there was very little to Merkel-worship. Just a vague sense that she was a nice person and — crucially — that conservatives disliked her. Puddle-deep and tribal: the cult of Merkel was modern liberalism at its worst."

    https://archive.is/xfeIZ

    Janan Ganesh on the Merkel-Anbeter, and her new book.

    "For a sense of the tribal shallowness that can overcome smart people, remember that Brits who hated “austerity” swore by this fiscal hawk. Not only did the tension not bother them, I’m not sure it occurred to them in the first place. What mattered was that Merkel, in some ineffable way, seemed to be on the right team. From there, the rest could be backfilled. Her policies? Her track record of judgment? Such a bore."
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,433
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Good article on the Syrian Implications for Iran

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/this-is-irans-annus-horribilis/

    Obviously not the most-read article on the Spectator, that has remained the same for the last 72 hours, but still good. It hints that the Syrian drama may actually menace the Tehran regime in the end (emphasis on “may”)

    If the toppling of Assad really does lead to the end of the hideous Iranian regime then I will genuinely celebrate, as that would be an uncontestable victory for humanity

    Less likely, as Assad was a Shia leader in a majority Sunni nation (as Saddam on the other side was a Sunni leader in a majority Shia nation). The Iranian regime though are Shia leaders of a majority Shia nation
    You make the facile assumption that for most people, religion matters more than other matters in life.

    You make that assumption because you are a religious fundamentalist.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,877
    Omnium said:

    MattW said:

    Omnium said:

    On topic, it wouldn’t take many defections, plus a few by-elections and the LibDems become the Official Opposition.

    Well Ed Davey will have to sponge and press his trousers then.
    Once the rivers are de-sewaged, he can just use drip-dry.
    Has his name on it after all.

    Joking aside surely the LDs have some plan to do something or other?
    They will have plans, but they require the Conservatives to lose 50 MPs first, and at present they have only lost the Leeanderthal Man.

    That's quite a buffer. I think factors against are that Farage has declared he will destroy the Conservative Oarty, as we know, which perhaps demotivates, and that it's still 4 years to the next Election.

    I'd say there's far more incentive for those MPs whom the voters flushed away into the dustbin of history. They have lost it all already, so they have nothing to lose.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972

    Assad not dead.

    https://x.com/sentdefender/status/1865816946123366614

    Russian State Media Agency, TASS reports that Former Syrian President Bashar al-Assad and his Family have arrived in Moscow, where they have been granted Political Asylum.

    Awesome, now there’s the opportunity for a bunch of ME States who have been neutral on Russia until now, to join with European and NATO sanctions.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,632
    Leon said:

    Good article on the Syrian Implications for Iran

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/this-is-irans-annus-horribilis/

    Obviously not the most-read article on the Spectator, that has remained the same for the last 72 hours, but still good. It hints that the Syrian drama may actually menace the Tehran regime in the end (emphasis on “may”)

    If the toppling of Assad really does lead to the end of the hideous Iranian regime then I will genuinely celebrate, as that would be an uncontestable victory for humanity

    But it could be replaced by something worse, directly or indirectly, either in and of itself or specifically through the prism of UK and wider western interests, so it's best to avoid celebrating until at least 50 years have passed and a full geopolitical assessment, informed by hard evidence of the consequences, can be made.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,877
    edited December 8

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Good article on the Syrian Implications for Iran

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/this-is-irans-annus-horribilis/

    Obviously not the most-read article on the Spectator, that has remained the same for the last 72 hours, but still good. It hints that the Syrian drama may actually menace the Tehran regime in the end (emphasis on “may”)

    If the toppling of Assad really does lead to the end of the hideous Iranian regime then I will genuinely celebrate, as that would be an uncontestable victory for humanity

    Less likely, as Assad was a Shia leader in a majority Sunni nation (as Saddam on the other side was a Sunni leader in a majority Shia nation). The Iranian regime though are Shia leaders of a majority Shia nation
    You make the facile assumption that for most people, religion matters more than other matters in life.

    You make that assumption because you are a religious fundamentalist.
    I think you are perhaps trying to apply Western European assumptions in a Middle Eastern culture, and perhaps imagining that Islam in the ME exists separately to polity / society; not so - it encompasses it.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,352
    A couple of bylines:

    Dutch security minister suggests 'indicatiobs of a crime' in The Hague apartment explosion that, with search ongoing, has killed 5 and injured 4. Not much indication of what might have happened in this case, but plenty of Reddits in the last year on a spate of Dutch explosions (TL;Dr usually Polish fireworks used by drug and extortion gangs to intimidate and close down rivals)

    https://www.telegraaf.nl/nieuws/1082757231/live-minister-van-weel-aanwijzingen-voor-een-misdrijf-bij-explosies-tarwekamp

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Netherlands/comments/1alube3/question_what_is_the_cause_of_explosions/


    Second, Italy:
    First suspected case from the Congolese flu outbreak, a Congolese national hospitalised in Lucca, Tuscany between 22/Nov and 3/Dec. Lab investigations ongoing.

    https://tg24.sky.it/cronaca/2024/12/08/malattia-congo-virus-paziente-lucca
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Good article on the Syrian Implications for Iran

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/this-is-irans-annus-horribilis/

    Obviously not the most-read article on the Spectator, that has remained the same for the last 72 hours, but still good. It hints that the Syrian drama may actually menace the Tehran regime in the end (emphasis on “may”)

    If the toppling of Assad really does lead to the end of the hideous Iranian regime then I will genuinely celebrate, as that would be an uncontestable victory for humanity

    Less likely, as Assad was a Shia leader in a majority Sunni nation (as Saddam on the other side was a Sunni leader in a majority Shia nation). The Iranian regime though are Shia leaders of a majority Shia nation
    The wider point is that this is merely one of a number of setbacks for Tehran - their alliance of odiousness is in tatters. Hamas has been hammered, Hezbollah have been literally blinded and emasculated. Now Assad falls. They begin to look isolated and at the same time they are dealing with a restive population at home

    The article also makes the good point that Tehran pumped tens of billions into Syria, to keep Assad going. Now all that has gone and will not be repaid, in any form
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,888
    edited December 8
    ...

    algarkirk said:

    FF43 said:

    Leon said:

    The more narcissistic basically evil, I the case of Braverman, nut jobs join Reform, better for Labour.

    Reform go further and further to the Rabid Right and the more Badenochs Tories and her disgraced Right flank and Reform tear strips off each other trying to be worker than woke and more anti anti establishment.

    Keir meanwhile gets his head down and grafts grafts grafts boringly but relentless steady slow improvement.

    Turning the NHS around, increasing House Building, reducing net migration, clearing the Tory Asylum backlogs.

    Interest rates slip quietly down, mortgage base rate slips in the 3.somethings, god forbid a few tax reductions in the form of slowly increasing tax thresholds, wealth and windfall taxes on the greedy for the needy.

    The massive UK tanker, slowly turned around.

    By 2028 what is the solution, rabid Right or steady solid dependable Left...

    Nah, Labour are fucked. Look how they are already cratering in Scotland. Starmer hasn’t the charisma, wit or ideas to get anything done. One term
    He might get loads done but it wont be enough. The message from Biden loss is loud and clear: being able to point at a long list of technocratic things you've done and how good the GDP is, or how high the % of widgets produced this term is not worth gnats piss in the new political era.

    Thing is, if Labour goes, it means we're done with liberal democracy. Conservatives won't be able to convince anyone, actually we're fine now. So we end up with Reform. And if anyone thinks that's a recipe for sorting things out, I would have a bridge to sell you.

    Except Nigel is selling it already.
    Piling speculation upon a heapm of them, it would be interesting to see what happened if Reform had the chance to show us that simple answers are not available to intractable questions thrown up by modernity.

    I have no idea what Reform would do, and nor do they, but its current policies consist of: continuation of post 1945 social democracy (at the moment there is nothing else that can get voters voting), + national populism + stop importing the workers who produce the laborious work of that social democracy UK residents don't feel like doing + funding done by milking unicorns.

    Best guess: have a look at Italy and Argentina
    I just wonder if we have to accept a Reform government now. Hope it’s a success in which case I’ll cheer it on, otherwise they’ll crash and burn and something will hopefully recover from the ashes.
    Thats just what Germans and Italians said in the 1930s

    We cannot allow Fascism to entrench in the UK.
    Whistle while you work Farage is a twerp...

    What is your name? Don't tell him Leon!
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,433
    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Good article on the Syrian Implications for Iran

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/this-is-irans-annus-horribilis/

    Obviously not the most-read article on the Spectator, that has remained the same for the last 72 hours, but still good. It hints that the Syrian drama may actually menace the Tehran regime in the end (emphasis on “may”)

    If the toppling of Assad really does lead to the end of the hideous Iranian regime then I will genuinely celebrate, as that would be an uncontestable victory for humanity

    We simply don't know where this is going to end up in the short, medium or long term. We can hope, but not know.

    We can also encourage the new regime(s) in a pro-western direction; but that is all we can do: encourage.

    It is up to Syrians. And that, in a sad way, is progress.

    (I'm still interested in what is going to happen to Russian and Iranian/Hezbollah troops in Syria)
    Agreed on the Russians. What is happening right now in that Russian port? Tartus? That must be quite intense right now, as the Russians are - I presume - forced to flee like the Yanks out of Nam
    If whoever is in charge of that area is wise, he might allow an orderly withdrawal - if the Russians allow that option.

    At a larger level: there is a chance that Russia might be allowed to keep their bases in the medium term. That would be an indication - a negative one IMV - of the new regime's priorities, given Russia has been their enemy.
    My ignorant view would be the new regime, finding its feet, would want to do as little to provoke external powers as is possible (given by defeating Assad they've already provoked Russia's ire).
    This may be a sign of the new regime, or regimes, intention. Are the new crowd in Damascus (are they there yet?) in charge of the people on the ground? Will they allow an orderly Russian withdrawal, or fight? What do the local groups want? Want does al-whatever want? What do the Russians want?

    And sometimes events get out of hand, whatever all sides want.

    I'm unsure Russia's ire means much any more. This is a massive embarrassment for Russia. Keeping the bases might be a slight face-saving measure for them. Will the new regime allow it?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Good article on the Syrian Implications for Iran

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/this-is-irans-annus-horribilis/

    Obviously not the most-read article on the Spectator, that has remained the same for the last 72 hours, but still good. It hints that the Syrian drama may actually menace the Tehran regime in the end (emphasis on “may”)

    If the toppling of Assad really does lead to the end of the hideous Iranian regime then I will genuinely celebrate, as that would be an uncontestable victory for humanity

    But it could be replaced by something worse, directly or indirectly, either in and of itself or specifically through the prism of UK and wider western interests, so it's best to avoid celebrating until at least 50 years have passed and a full geopolitical assessment, informed by hard evidence of the consequences, can be made.
    I see the point you are toiling to make, but it is misconceived. If the Tehran regime falls it will NOT be toppled by even nastier Islamists. It would almost certainly be something much friendlier to the west and way less fundamentalist

    So it would be worthy of pretty instant celebration
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,433
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Good article on the Syrian Implications for Iran

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/this-is-irans-annus-horribilis/

    Obviously not the most-read article on the Spectator, that has remained the same for the last 72 hours, but still good. It hints that the Syrian drama may actually menace the Tehran regime in the end (emphasis on “may”)

    If the toppling of Assad really does lead to the end of the hideous Iranian regime then I will genuinely celebrate, as that would be an uncontestable victory for humanity

    Less likely, as Assad was a Shia leader in a majority Sunni nation (as Saddam on the other side was a Sunni leader in a majority Shia nation). The Iranian regime though are Shia leaders of a majority Shia nation
    The wider point is that this is merely one of a number of setbacks for Tehran - their alliance of odiousness is in tatters. Hamas has been hammered, Hezbollah have been literally blinded and emasculated. Now Assad falls. They begin to look isolated and at the same time they are dealing with a restive population at home

    The article also makes the good point that Tehran pumped tens of billions into Syria, to keep Assad going. Now all that has gone and will not be repaid, in any form
    And Russia. They failed to stand up for their CSTO (Russia's NATO) obligations to protect Armenia. They are being embarrassed in Ukraine. They nearly suffered a coup. Embarrassment after embarrassment.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    SERIOUS POINT

    Whatever the duller people on here choose to believe, I am NOT @Shecorns88 - perhaps there is some way of the mods proving that

    So stop being rude to her/him, this site needs new blood and @Shecorns88 brings an interesting, articulate and fresh point of view. Also, we need avowed Starmerites, there aren’t many wiling to put up a proper fight, and @Shecorns88 does
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,433
    MattW said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Good article on the Syrian Implications for Iran

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/this-is-irans-annus-horribilis/

    Obviously not the most-read article on the Spectator, that has remained the same for the last 72 hours, but still good. It hints that the Syrian drama may actually menace the Tehran regime in the end (emphasis on “may”)

    If the toppling of Assad really does lead to the end of the hideous Iranian regime then I will genuinely celebrate, as that would be an uncontestable victory for humanity

    Less likely, as Assad was a Shia leader in a majority Sunni nation (as Saddam on the other side was a Sunni leader in a majority Shia nation). The Iranian regime though are Shia leaders of a majority Shia nation
    You make the facile assumption that for most people, religion matters more than other matters in life.

    You make that assumption because you are a religious fundamentalist.
    I think you are perhaps trying to apply Western European assumptions in a Middle Eastern culture, and perhaps imagining that Islam in the ME exists separately to polity / society; not so - it encompasses it.
    The religious bigots try to make religion the society. That is not the natural case. Iran was a fairly western country before 1979, and it has taken the regime a heck of a lot of effort to maintain that lie.

    If it comes to a choice between putting food on the table and going to church, most people will choose the food.
  • Shecorns88Shecorns88 Posts: 279
    MattW said:

    Omnium said:

    MattW said:

    Omnium said:

    On topic, it wouldn’t take many defections, plus a few by-elections and the LibDems become the Official Opposition.

    Well Ed Davey will have to sponge and press his trousers then.
    Once the rivers are de-sewaged, he can just use drip-dry.
    Has his name on it after all.

    Joking aside surely the LDs have some plan to do something or other?
    They will have plans, but they require the Conservatives to lose 50 MPs first, and at present they have only lost the Leeanderthal Man.

    That's quite a buffer. I think factors against are that Farage has declared he will destroy the Conservative Oarty, as we know, which perhaps demotivates, and that it's still 4 years to the next Election.

    I'd say there's far more incentive for those MPs whom the voters flushed away into the dustbin of history. They have lost it all already, so they have nothing to lose.
    I'd welcome a serious answer to a serious question

    Could Reform survive without Farage?

    Could Farage remain as an MP without Reform

    You really need to consider how this charlatan works. He's had more blue shade coats than Joseph.

    What will kill Reform and/or Farage

    His boredom
    His ego
    His work shy DNA
    Fags
    Booze

    It's a cult both ways built on ego.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578

    MattW said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Good article on the Syrian Implications for Iran

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/this-is-irans-annus-horribilis/

    Obviously not the most-read article on the Spectator, that has remained the same for the last 72 hours, but still good. It hints that the Syrian drama may actually menace the Tehran regime in the end (emphasis on “may”)

    If the toppling of Assad really does lead to the end of the hideous Iranian regime then I will genuinely celebrate, as that would be an uncontestable victory for humanity

    Less likely, as Assad was a Shia leader in a majority Sunni nation (as Saddam on the other side was a Sunni leader in a majority Shia nation). The Iranian regime though are Shia leaders of a majority Shia nation
    You make the facile assumption that for most people, religion matters more than other matters in life.

    You make that assumption because you are a religious fundamentalist.
    I think you are perhaps trying to apply Western European assumptions in a Middle Eastern culture, and perhaps imagining that Islam in the ME exists separately to polity / society; not so - it encompasses it.
    The religious bigots try to make religion the society. That is not the natural case. Iran was a fairly western country before 1979, and it has taken the regime a heck of a lot of effort to maintain that lie.

    If it comes to a choice between putting food on the table and going to church, most people will choose the food.
    The answer may be somewhere in the middle, but it seems true that the greater centrality of religion in places like the Middle East is treated as some kind of unchangeable fact, when even if it was still greater than in, saym W. Europe, even in the ME it waxes and wanes.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578

    MattW said:

    Omnium said:

    MattW said:

    Omnium said:

    On topic, it wouldn’t take many defections, plus a few by-elections and the LibDems become the Official Opposition.

    Well Ed Davey will have to sponge and press his trousers then.
    Once the rivers are de-sewaged, he can just use drip-dry.
    Has his name on it after all.

    Joking aside surely the LDs have some plan to do something or other?
    They will have plans, but they require the Conservatives to lose 50 MPs first, and at present they have only lost the Leeanderthal Man.

    That's quite a buffer. I think factors against are that Farage has declared he will destroy the Conservative Oarty, as we know, which perhaps demotivates, and that it's still 4 years to the next Election.

    I'd say there's far more incentive for those MPs whom the voters flushed away into the dustbin of history. They have lost it all already, so they have nothing to lose.
    Could Reform survive without Farage?
    That would depend on if he set up something else.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,877
    Pagan2 said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    The government wants to introduce a digital ID that lives on your phone rather than a physical card. You can then verify your identity that way.

    Seems eminently sensible to me.

    I wouldn't trust them to develop such a thing that worked, was safe, and didn't cost 5 times more than whatever they would claim it will cost.

    That's leaving aside the pro or anti arguments over the principle.
    Gov.uk was one of the few successes of the Tory period. Why can’t this also be a success?
    'Few successes' makes the point for me, as would many a government IT project for a start.
    Yes but the point is that the government can produce good IT projects if they want to.

    The sensible thing would be to look at why Gov.uk was a success.
    Gov.uk wasn't a success it was a steaming pile of shit and gets worse year by year
    AFAIK it is regarded as a major success. If I am right, Tom Steinberg was one of the people involved - he of My Society, What Do They Know, They Work for You etc.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/BritishSuccess/comments/15p1db9/the_govuk_website_somehow_unfathomably_the/
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,877
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Good article on the Syrian Implications for Iran

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/this-is-irans-annus-horribilis/

    Obviously not the most-read article on the Spectator, that has remained the same for the last 72 hours, but still good. It hints that the Syrian drama may actually menace the Tehran regime in the end (emphasis on “may”)

    If the toppling of Assad really does lead to the end of the hideous Iranian regime then I will genuinely celebrate, as that would be an uncontestable victory for humanity

    We simply don't know where this is going to end up in the short, medium or long term. We can hope, but not know.

    We can also encourage the new regime(s) in a pro-western direction; but that is all we can do: encourage.

    It is up to Syrians. And that, in a sad way, is progress.

    (I'm still interested in what is going to happen to Russian and Iranian/Hezbollah troops in Syria)
    Agreed on the Russians. What is happening right now in that Russian port? Tartus? That must be quite intense right now, as the Russians are - I presume - forced to flee like the Yanks out of Nam
    The Russian ships were gone 2 or 3 days ago.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Good article on the Syrian Implications for Iran

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/this-is-irans-annus-horribilis/

    Obviously not the most-read article on the Spectator, that has remained the same for the last 72 hours, but still good. It hints that the Syrian drama may actually menace the Tehran regime in the end (emphasis on “may”)

    If the toppling of Assad really does lead to the end of the hideous Iranian regime then I will genuinely celebrate, as that would be an uncontestable victory for humanity

    We simply don't know where this is going to end up in the short, medium or long term. We can hope, but not know.

    We can also encourage the new regime(s) in a pro-western direction; but that is all we can do: encourage.

    It is up to Syrians. And that, in a sad way, is progress.

    (I'm still interested in what is going to happen to Russian and Iranian/Hezbollah troops in Syria)
    Agreed on the Russians. What is happening right now in that Russian port? Tartus? That must be quite intense right now, as the Russians are - I presume - forced to flee like the Yanks out of Nam
    If whoever is in charge of that area is wise, he might allow an orderly withdrawal - if the Russians allow that option.

    At a larger level: there is a chance that Russia might be allowed to keep their bases in the medium term. That would be an indication - a negative one IMV - of the new regime's priorities, given Russia has been their enemy.
    My ignorant view would be the new regime, finding its feet, would want to do as little to provoke external powers as is possible (given by defeating Assad they've already provoked Russia's ire).
    This may be a sign of the new regime, or regimes, intention. Are the new crowd in Damascus (are they there yet?) in charge of the people on the ground? Will they allow an orderly Russian withdrawal, or fight? What do the local groups want? Want does al-whatever want? What do the Russians want?

    And sometimes events get out of hand, whatever all sides want.

    I'm unsure Russia's ire means much any more. This is a massive embarrassment for Russia. Keeping the bases might be a slight face-saving measure for them. Will the new regime allow it?
    I don’t see how Russia can maintain an important naval base in such a hostile and volatile environment; even if some weird “government” in Damascus makes an agreement there will be millions of Syrians who want revenge on Putin for bombing the fuck out of them, and they will make the base untenable. Is my amateur guess
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,864

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Good article on the Syrian Implications for Iran

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/this-is-irans-annus-horribilis/

    Obviously not the most-read article on the Spectator, that has remained the same for the last 72 hours, but still good. It hints that the Syrian drama may actually menace the Tehran regime in the end (emphasis on “may”)

    If the toppling of Assad really does lead to the end of the hideous Iranian regime then I will genuinely celebrate, as that would be an uncontestable victory for humanity

    Less likely, as Assad was a Shia leader in a majority Sunni nation (as Saddam on the other side was a Sunni leader in a majority Shia nation). The Iranian regime though are Shia leaders of a majority Shia nation
    You make the facile assumption that for most people, religion matters more than other matters in life.

    You make that assumption because you are a religious fundamentalist.
    In the Middle East it does, whether you are a Shia Muslim or Sunni Muslim (or in relation to Israel a Jew) matters far more than whether you want a socialist or capitalist run economy or even the nation state
  • Leon said:

    SERIOUS POINT

    Whatever the duller people on here choose to believe, I am NOT @Shecorns88 - perhaps there is some way of the mods proving that

    So stop being rude to her/him, this site needs new blood and @Shecorns88 brings an interesting, articulate and fresh point of view. Also, we need avowed Starmerites, there aren’t many wiling to put up a proper fight, and @Shecorns88 does

    I just do not understand why some on here have suggested you are

    Frankly, he/she comes over as a trainee labour intern who seems to shout a lot and uses swearing to try to justify himself/herself

    Best to just ignore, but it is not you @Leon
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,433
    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Good article on the Syrian Implications for Iran

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/this-is-irans-annus-horribilis/

    Obviously not the most-read article on the Spectator, that has remained the same for the last 72 hours, but still good. It hints that the Syrian drama may actually menace the Tehran regime in the end (emphasis on “may”)

    If the toppling of Assad really does lead to the end of the hideous Iranian regime then I will genuinely celebrate, as that would be an uncontestable victory for humanity

    We simply don't know where this is going to end up in the short, medium or long term. We can hope, but not know.

    We can also encourage the new regime(s) in a pro-western direction; but that is all we can do: encourage.

    It is up to Syrians. And that, in a sad way, is progress.

    (I'm still interested in what is going to happen to Russian and Iranian/Hezbollah troops in Syria)
    Agreed on the Russians. What is happening right now in that Russian port? Tartus? That must be quite intense right now, as the Russians are - I presume - forced to flee like the Yanks out of Nam
    The Russian ships were gone 2 or 3 days ago.
    Not according to HYUFD... ;)
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Good article on the Syrian Implications for Iran

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/this-is-irans-annus-horribilis/

    Obviously not the most-read article on the Spectator, that has remained the same for the last 72 hours, but still good. It hints that the Syrian drama may actually menace the Tehran regime in the end (emphasis on “may”)

    If the toppling of Assad really does lead to the end of the hideous Iranian regime then I will genuinely celebrate, as that would be an uncontestable victory for humanity

    We simply don't know where this is going to end up in the short, medium or long term. We can hope, but not know.

    We can also encourage the new regime(s) in a pro-western direction; but that is all we can do: encourage.

    It is up to Syrians. And that, in a sad way, is progress.

    (I'm still interested in what is going to happen to Russian and Iranian/Hezbollah troops in Syria)
    Agreed on the Russians. What is happening right now in that Russian port? Tartus? That must be quite intense right now, as the Russians are - I presume - forced to flee like the Yanks out of Nam
    The Russian ships were gone 2 or 3 days ago.
    Yes, that’s what I expect, they will flee entirely, taking whatever they can. Like America in Saigon
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,433
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Good article on the Syrian Implications for Iran

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/this-is-irans-annus-horribilis/

    Obviously not the most-read article on the Spectator, that has remained the same for the last 72 hours, but still good. It hints that the Syrian drama may actually menace the Tehran regime in the end (emphasis on “may”)

    If the toppling of Assad really does lead to the end of the hideous Iranian regime then I will genuinely celebrate, as that would be an uncontestable victory for humanity

    Less likely, as Assad was a Shia leader in a majority Sunni nation (as Saddam on the other side was a Sunni leader in a majority Shia nation). The Iranian regime though are Shia leaders of a majority Shia nation
    You make the facile assumption that for most people, religion matters more than other matters in life.

    You make that assumption because you are a religious fundamentalist.
    In the Middle East it does, whether you are a Shia Muslim or Sunni Muslim (or in relation to Israel a Jew) matters far more than whether you want a socialist or capitalist run economy or even the nation state
    You see, you are seeing this from the perspective of a religious bigot.

    Most people are not religious bigots, even in the ME.

    That is your mistake.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,864

    MattW said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Good article on the Syrian Implications for Iran

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/this-is-irans-annus-horribilis/

    Obviously not the most-read article on the Spectator, that has remained the same for the last 72 hours, but still good. It hints that the Syrian drama may actually menace the Tehran regime in the end (emphasis on “may”)

    If the toppling of Assad really does lead to the end of the hideous Iranian regime then I will genuinely celebrate, as that would be an uncontestable victory for humanity

    Less likely, as Assad was a Shia leader in a majority Sunni nation (as Saddam on the other side was a Sunni leader in a majority Shia nation). The Iranian regime though are Shia leaders of a majority Shia nation
    You make the facile assumption that for most people, religion matters more than other matters in life.

    You make that assumption because you are a religious fundamentalist.
    I think you are perhaps trying to apply Western European assumptions in a Middle Eastern culture, and perhaps imagining that Islam in the ME exists separately to polity / society; not so - it encompasses it.
    The religious bigots try to make religion the society. That is not the natural case. Iran was a fairly western country before 1979, and it has taken the regime a heck of a lot of effort to maintain that lie.

    If it comes to a choice between putting food on the table and going to church, most people will choose the food.
    Muslims go to mosque not church (and of course many churches and mosques provide foodbanks for those out of work or on low incomes).

  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    carnforth said:

    "In the end, there was very little to Merkel-worship. Just a vague sense that she was a nice person and — crucially — that conservatives disliked her. Puddle-deep and tribal: the cult of Merkel was modern liberalism at its worst."

    https://archive.is/xfeIZ

    Janan Ganesh on the Merkel-Anbeter, and her new book.

    "For a sense of the tribal shallowness that can overcome smart people, remember that Brits who hated “austerity” swore by this fiscal hawk. Not only did the tension not bother them, I’m not sure it occurred to them in the first place. What mattered was that Merkel, in some ineffable way, seemed to be on the right team. From there, the rest could be backfilled. Her policies? Her track record of judgment? Such a bore."

    He’s been off form, recently, Janan Ganesh. I almost stopped reading him. But that’s a really sharp article
  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,500

    The government wants to introduce a digital ID that lives on your phone rather than a physical card. You can then verify your identity that way.

    Seems eminently sensible to me.

    I think you're probably referring to the stuff in the Data (Use and Access) Bill, which is currently going through the Lords.

    Essentially, it's just providing a basis for consumer use of digital verification services - and isn't itself a digital ID system.

    It might be best to think of it as a replacement for the parts of the old Gov.uk Verify program that weren't rolled into the (partial) replacement One Login for Government system. More info here: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/digital-identity
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,864
    edited December 8

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Good article on the Syrian Implications for Iran

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/this-is-irans-annus-horribilis/

    Obviously not the most-read article on the Spectator, that has remained the same for the last 72 hours, but still good. It hints that the Syrian drama may actually menace the Tehran regime in the end (emphasis on “may”)

    If the toppling of Assad really does lead to the end of the hideous Iranian regime then I will genuinely celebrate, as that would be an uncontestable victory for humanity

    Less likely, as Assad was a Shia leader in a majority Sunni nation (as Saddam on the other side was a Sunni leader in a majority Shia nation). The Iranian regime though are Shia leaders of a majority Shia nation
    You make the facile assumption that for most people, religion matters more than other matters in life.

    You make that assumption because you are a religious fundamentalist.
    In the Middle East it does, whether you are a Shia Muslim or Sunni Muslim (or in relation to Israel a Jew) matters far more than whether you want a socialist or capitalist run economy or even the nation state
    You see, you are seeing this from the perspective of a religious bigot.

    Most people are not religious bigots, even in the ME.

    That is your mistake.
    Yes most people in the ME are flocking to gay pride parades, women wandering around the streets in very little with the authorities not batting an eye lid. They certainly don't have public beheadings, floggings or public hangings in half the ME nations either. Oh wait...
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,826
    edited December 8
    Spurs commit hari kiri after being 2 0 up.
  • Sky

    Assad granted asylum in Moscow
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,433
    HYUFD said:

    MattW said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Good article on the Syrian Implications for Iran

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/this-is-irans-annus-horribilis/

    Obviously not the most-read article on the Spectator, that has remained the same for the last 72 hours, but still good. It hints that the Syrian drama may actually menace the Tehran regime in the end (emphasis on “may”)

    If the toppling of Assad really does lead to the end of the hideous Iranian regime then I will genuinely celebrate, as that would be an uncontestable victory for humanity

    Less likely, as Assad was a Shia leader in a majority Sunni nation (as Saddam on the other side was a Sunni leader in a majority Shia nation). The Iranian regime though are Shia leaders of a majority Shia nation
    You make the facile assumption that for most people, religion matters more than other matters in life.

    You make that assumption because you are a religious fundamentalist.
    I think you are perhaps trying to apply Western European assumptions in a Middle Eastern culture, and perhaps imagining that Islam in the ME exists separately to polity / society; not so - it encompasses it.
    The religious bigots try to make religion the society. That is not the natural case. Iran was a fairly western country before 1979, and it has taken the regime a heck of a lot of effort to maintain that lie.

    If it comes to a choice between putting food on the table and going to church, most people will choose the food.
    Muslims go to mosque not church (and of course many churches and mosques provide foodbanks for those out of work or on low incomes).
    You know my point. And I'm unconvinced your foodbanks comment is one that sells your worldview. "Look! We're keeping you hungry! But here's some food, my slaves!"
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,877
    edited December 8

    MattW said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Good article on the Syrian Implications for Iran

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/this-is-irans-annus-horribilis/

    Obviously not the most-read article on the Spectator, that has remained the same for the last 72 hours, but still good. It hints that the Syrian drama may actually menace the Tehran regime in the end (emphasis on “may”)

    If the toppling of Assad really does lead to the end of the hideous Iranian regime then I will genuinely celebrate, as that would be an uncontestable victory for humanity

    Less likely, as Assad was a Shia leader in a majority Sunni nation (as Saddam on the other side was a Sunni leader in a majority Shia nation). The Iranian regime though are Shia leaders of a majority Shia nation
    You make the facile assumption that for most people, religion matters more than other matters in life.

    You make that assumption because you are a religious fundamentalist.
    I think you are perhaps trying to apply Western European assumptions in a Middle Eastern culture, and perhaps imagining that Islam in the ME exists separately to polity / society; not so - it encompasses it.
    The religious bigots try to make religion the society. That is not the natural case. Iran was a fairly western country before 1979, and it has taken the regime a heck of a lot of effort to maintain that lie.

    If it comes to a choice between putting food on the table and going to church, most people will choose the food.
    You're stuck in your mindset and your worldview, I think.

    Religion (even Western religion) does not comprise "going to church".

    AFAIK, Islam as it has existed since the 7C in the ME incorporates the social and political order. That's what exists, and overwhelmingly continues to exist. You will find different views on the edges, for example the three of four countries on the Western end of North Africa having rejected or suspended the death penalty whilst maintaining the line that they follow Sharia. And you will find syncretism in some places outside the ME including I think in Iran, but that process is not far down the track yet in that core region.

    As I see it, the Shah was an overhang of a puppet regime set up by the British Empire. We made no serious provision for how the countries we created would develop in the future.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,433
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Good article on the Syrian Implications for Iran

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/this-is-irans-annus-horribilis/

    Obviously not the most-read article on the Spectator, that has remained the same for the last 72 hours, but still good. It hints that the Syrian drama may actually menace the Tehran regime in the end (emphasis on “may”)

    If the toppling of Assad really does lead to the end of the hideous Iranian regime then I will genuinely celebrate, as that would be an uncontestable victory for humanity

    Less likely, as Assad was a Shia leader in a majority Sunni nation (as Saddam on the other side was a Sunni leader in a majority Shia nation). The Iranian regime though are Shia leaders of a majority Shia nation
    You make the facile assumption that for most people, religion matters more than other matters in life.

    You make that assumption because you are a religious fundamentalist.
    In the Middle East it does, whether you are a Shia Muslim or Sunni Muslim (or in relation to Israel a Jew) matters far more than whether you want a socialist or capitalist run economy or even the nation state
    You see, you are seeing this from the perspective of a religious bigot.

    Most people are not religious bigots, even in the ME.

    That is your mistake.
    Yes most people in the ME are flocking to gay pride parades, women wandering around the streets in very little with the authorities not batting an eye lid. They certainly don't have public beheadings, floggings or public hangings in half the ME nations either. Oh wait...
    You are mistaking the people with the regimes. A mistake Assad has made over the last couple of decades.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    HYUFD said:

    MattW said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Good article on the Syrian Implications for Iran

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/this-is-irans-annus-horribilis/

    Obviously not the most-read article on the Spectator, that has remained the same for the last 72 hours, but still good. It hints that the Syrian drama may actually menace the Tehran regime in the end (emphasis on “may”)

    If the toppling of Assad really does lead to the end of the hideous Iranian regime then I will genuinely celebrate, as that would be an uncontestable victory for humanity

    Less likely, as Assad was a Shia leader in a majority Sunni nation (as Saddam on the other side was a Sunni leader in a majority Shia nation). The Iranian regime though are Shia leaders of a majority Shia nation
    You make the facile assumption that for most people, religion matters more than other matters in life.

    You make that assumption because you are a religious fundamentalist.
    I think you are perhaps trying to apply Western European assumptions in a Middle Eastern culture, and perhaps imagining that Islam in the ME exists separately to polity / society; not so - it encompasses it.
    The religious bigots try to make religion the society. That is not the natural case. Iran was a fairly western country before 1979, and it has taken the regime a heck of a lot of effort to maintain that lie.

    If it comes to a choice between putting food on the table and going to church, most people will choose the food.
    Muslims go to mosque not church (and of course many churches and mosques provide foodbanks for those out of work or on low incomes).

    What the heck does any of that (or a metaphor using the word church) have to do with the question of whether the level of religiosity in the ME is capable of adjustment, or if it is, as you appear to insist, utterly fixed in place?

    And it could be argued it isn't fixed, since the level of religiosity has perhaps increased in the last few decades. And if it can increase, it can also decrease.

    I don't see that happening in the short to medium term, but no society is incapable of changing - Islamic societies in the world today are already varied, and the ME is not the same place it was 500 years ago either.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578

    Spurs commit hari kiri after being 2 0 up.

    That's an unpleasant description. Have they fully Assaded yet?

    Too soon?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,864

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Good article on the Syrian Implications for Iran

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/this-is-irans-annus-horribilis/

    Obviously not the most-read article on the Spectator, that has remained the same for the last 72 hours, but still good. It hints that the Syrian drama may actually menace the Tehran regime in the end (emphasis on “may”)

    If the toppling of Assad really does lead to the end of the hideous Iranian regime then I will genuinely celebrate, as that would be an uncontestable victory for humanity

    Less likely, as Assad was a Shia leader in a majority Sunni nation (as Saddam on the other side was a Sunni leader in a majority Shia nation). The Iranian regime though are Shia leaders of a majority Shia nation
    You make the facile assumption that for most people, religion matters more than other matters in life.

    You make that assumption because you are a religious fundamentalist.
    In the Middle East it does, whether you are a Shia Muslim or Sunni Muslim (or in relation to Israel a Jew) matters far more than whether you want a socialist or capitalist run economy or even the nation state
    You see, you are seeing this from the perspective of a religious bigot.

    Most people are not religious bigots, even in the ME.

    That is your mistake.
    Yes most people in the ME are flocking to gay pride parades, women wandering around the streets in very little with the authorities not batting an eye lid. They certainly don't have public beheadings, floggings or public hangings in half the ME nations either. Oh wait...
    You are mistaking the people with the regimes. A mistake Assad has made over the last couple of decades.
    Assad was toppled because he was a Shia dictator in a majority Sunni nation. Not because he wasn't pro LGBT enough or too socially conservative and there weren't enough women in his regime.

    In reality Assad was relatively secular in ME terms, the rebels who have toppled his regime are rather more rigorous in their following of the Koran than he is
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,632
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Good article on the Syrian Implications for Iran

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/this-is-irans-annus-horribilis/

    Obviously not the most-read article on the Spectator, that has remained the same for the last 72 hours, but still good. It hints that the Syrian drama may actually menace the Tehran regime in the end (emphasis on “may”)

    If the toppling of Assad really does lead to the end of the hideous Iranian regime then I will genuinely celebrate, as that would be an uncontestable victory for humanity

    But it could be replaced by something worse, directly or indirectly, either in and of itself or specifically through the prism of UK and wider western interests, so it's best to avoid celebrating until at least 50 years have passed and a full geopolitical assessment, informed by hard evidence of the consequences, can be made.
    I see the point you are toiling to make, but it is misconceived. If the Tehran regime falls it will NOT be toppled by even nastier Islamists. It would almost certainly be something much friendlier to the west and way less fundamentalist

    So it would be worthy of pretty instant celebration
    Not such a toil that one. One of those where the pen moved itself and all I had to do was not interfere.

    But anyway, yes, you got it. Do not let biases and cod geopolitical forecasting stand in the way of celebrating the good things in life like the end of heinous dictators.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,864

    Sky

    Assad granted asylum in Moscow

    Indeed. So his regime has fallen but he looks to have avoided being executed or killed like Saddam or Gaddafi.

    'Syria's ousted President Bashar al Assad has arrived in Moscow, Russian state media has confirmed.

    Mr Assad and members of his family arrived in the city on Sunday, a Kremlin source told the TASS news agency.

    The source said: "Assad and his family members have arrived in Moscow. Russia, for humanitarian reasons, has granted them asylum."'
    https://news.sky.com/story/syrias-president-bashar-al-assad-is-in-moscow-and-has-been-granted-asylum-confirms-russian-state-media-13269955
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,632

    Sky

    Assad granted asylum in Moscow

    Is Philby's old flat available?
  • HYUFD said:

    Sky

    Assad granted asylum in Moscow

    Indeed. So his regime has fallen but he looks to have avoided being executed or killed like Saddam or Gaddafi.

    'Syria's ousted President Bashar al Assad has arrived in Moscow, Russian state media has confirmed.

    Mr Assad and members of his family arrived in the city on Sunday, a Kremlin source told the TASS news agency.

    The source said: "Assad and his family members have arrived in Moscow. Russia, for humanitarian reasons, has granted them asylum."'
    https://news.sky.com/story/syrias-president-bashar-al-assad-is-in-moscow-and-has-been-granted-asylum-confirms-russian-state-media-13269955
    You seem pleased
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,895

    Has it not dawned on anyone that there may actually be a completely independent largely left of centre but with a few actually right wing views who has legitimately joined this platform having watched from a distance for some time.

    From a distance largely because I wasn't receiving joining confirmation mails to my Gmail account, caused I believe by a known technical blip

    Sean, I know you like to come on here with multiple accounts with different personalities and different political views and frankly I found it very annoying initially but now find it quite entertaining.

    But it just means I have no idea if what you say, you believe. So you'll forgive me for taking literally anything you say with a pinch of salt.

    I think literally the only legitimate SKS supporter on this board, is me.
    This is getting annoying now. Please don't do it.
  • Shecorns88Shecorns88 Posts: 279

    Sky

    Assad granted asylum in Moscow

    2/5 on Richard Madeley
    Evens Beth Rigby
    5/4 Robert Peston

    Blame Starmer for not intercepting the Plane and taking him to The Hague

    Oh hang on...they don't like The Hague...
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Good article on the Syrian Implications for Iran

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/this-is-irans-annus-horribilis/

    Obviously not the most-read article on the Spectator, that has remained the same for the last 72 hours, but still good. It hints that the Syrian drama may actually menace the Tehran regime in the end (emphasis on “may”)

    If the toppling of Assad really does lead to the end of the hideous Iranian regime then I will genuinely celebrate, as that would be an uncontestable victory for humanity

    But it could be replaced by something worse, directly or indirectly, either in and of itself or specifically through the prism of UK and wider western interests, so it's best to avoid celebrating until at least 50 years have passed and a full geopolitical assessment, informed by hard evidence of the consequences, can be made.
    I see the point you are toiling to make, but it is misconceived. If the Tehran regime falls it will NOT be toppled by even nastier Islamists. It would almost certainly be something much friendlier to the west and way less fundamentalist

    So it would be worthy of pretty instant celebration
    Not such a toil that one. One of those where the pen moved itself and all I had to do was not interfere.

    But anyway, yes, you got it. Do not let biases and cod geopolitical forecasting stand in the way of celebrating the good things in life like the end of heinous dictators.
    It also turns out I might be wrong. Amazingly there is a nastier even-more-Islamist element in Iran seeking to overthrow the old Islamists for not being beheady enough

    Fascinating thread

    https://x.com/kasraaarabi/status/1865807232027222312?s=61&t=GGp3Vs1t1kTWDiyA-odnZg

    We need to quarantine the Islamic world, and protect ourselves, as it goes through these apparently endless convulsions of evermore extremism. Surely it must end?

    It’s so bad I now look at Saudi Arabia as a source of relative moderation and hope
  • Has it not dawned on anyone that there may actually be a completely independent largely left of centre but with a few actually right wing views who has legitimately joined this platform having watched from a distance for some time.

    From a distance largely because I wasn't receiving joining confirmation mails to my Gmail account, caused I believe by a known technical blip

    Sean, I know you like to come on here with multiple accounts with different personalities and different political views and frankly I found it very annoying initially but now find it quite entertaining.

    But it just means I have no idea if what you say, you believe. So you'll forgive me for taking literally anything you say with a pinch of salt.

    I think literally the only legitimate SKS supporter on this board, is me.
    This is getting annoying now. Please don't do it.
    I agree

    There is no evidence connecting @Leon to @Shecorns88 as I have already posted

    Time to move on
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,632

    Leon said:

    SERIOUS POINT

    Whatever the duller people on here choose to believe, I am NOT @Shecorns88 - perhaps there is some way of the mods proving that

    So stop being rude to her/him, this site needs new blood and @Shecorns88 brings an interesting, articulate and fresh point of view. Also, we need avowed Starmerites, there aren’t many wiling to put up a proper fight, and @Shecorns88 does

    I just do not understand why some on here have suggested you are

    Frankly, he/she comes over as a trainee labour intern who seems to shout a lot and uses swearing to try to justify himself/herself

    Best to just ignore, but it is not you @Leon
    It's striking how you and Leon both eschew full stops at the end of sentences.

    🤔🤔🤔
  • Sky

    Assad granted asylum in Moscow

    2/5 on Richard Madeley
    Evens Beth Rigby
    5/4 Robert Peston

    Blame Starmer for not intercepting the Plane and taking him to The Hague

    Oh hang on...they don't like The Hague...
    What on earth are you on about?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,895

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Good article on the Syrian Implications for Iran

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/this-is-irans-annus-horribilis/

    Obviously not the most-read article on the Spectator, that has remained the same for the last 72 hours, but still good. It hints that the Syrian drama may actually menace the Tehran regime in the end (emphasis on “may”)

    If the toppling of Assad really does lead to the end of the hideous Iranian regime then I will genuinely celebrate, as that would be an uncontestable victory for humanity

    We simply don't know where this is going to end up in the short, medium or long term. We can hope, but not know.

    We can also encourage the new regime(s) in a pro-western direction; but that is all we can do: encourage.

    It is up to Syrians. And that, in a sad way, is progress.

    (I'm still interested in what is going to happen to Russian and Iranian/Hezbollah troops in Syria)
    Agreed on the Russians. What is happening right now in that Russian port? Tartus? That must be quite intense right now, as the Russians are - I presume - forced to flee like the Yanks out of Nam
    If whoever is in charge of that area is wise, he might allow an orderly withdrawal - if the Russians allow that option.

    At a larger level: there is a chance that Russia might be allowed to keep their bases in the medium term. That would be an indication - a negative one IMV - of the new regime's priorities, given Russia has been their enemy.
    My ignorant view would be the new regime, finding its feet, would want to do as little to provoke external powers as is possible (given by defeating Assad they've already provoked Russia's ire).
    This may be a sign of the new regime, or regimes, intention. Are the new crowd in Damascus (are they there yet?) in charge of the people on the ground? Will they allow an orderly Russian withdrawal, or fight? What do the local groups want? Want does al-whatever want? What do the Russians want?

    And sometimes events get out of hand, whatever all sides want.

    I'm unsure Russia's ire means much any more. This is a massive embarrassment for Russia. Keeping the bases might be a slight face-saving measure for them. Will the new regime allow it?
    If the Russians could offer investment in upgraded civilian port facilities in exchange for keeping the naval base, then there would be a reason for the new government to do a deal. Rebuilding the economy of Syria, even in the rosy scenario that the civil war is over (which it might not be), is going to be difficult.

    However, Russia isn't really in a position to make such a deal. They don't have anything to offer.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,709
    HYUFD said:

    Sky

    Assad granted asylum in Moscow

    Indeed. So his regime has fallen but he looks to have avoided being executed or killed like Saddam or Gaddafi.

    'Syria's ousted President Bashar al Assad has arrived in Moscow, Russian state media has confirmed.

    Mr Assad and members of his family arrived in the city on Sunday, a Kremlin source told the TASS news agency.

    The source said: "Assad and his family members have arrived in Moscow. Russia, for humanitarian reasons, has granted them asylum."'
    https://news.sky.com/story/syrias-president-bashar-al-assad-is-in-moscow-and-has-been-granted-asylum-confirms-russian-state-media-13269955
    A major crisis in the irony meter industry has just been declared, after a colossal simultaneous explosion of every irony meter on the planet left 4000 dead and half a million wounded.

    Industry spokeswoman S R Chasm said, ‘Obviously, we are very alarmed by this turn of events and at a loss to explain it. Such products as we have been able to examine look to have been working fine and then suddenly overloaded. It was as if somebody said something so outrageous the circuitry just couldn’t take it.’

    Iran has already claimed it is terrorism and blamed Israel, who declined to comment.

    Survivors have vowed to replace their meters. ‘Whatever happens, we mos go on.’

  • kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    SERIOUS POINT

    Whatever the duller people on here choose to believe, I am NOT @Shecorns88 - perhaps there is some way of the mods proving that

    So stop being rude to her/him, this site needs new blood and @Shecorns88 brings an interesting, articulate and fresh point of view. Also, we need avowed Starmerites, there aren’t many wiling to put up a proper fight, and @Shecorns88 does

    I just do not understand why some on here have suggested you are

    Frankly, he/she comes over as a trainee labour intern who seems to shout a lot and uses swearing to try to justify himself/herself

    Best to just ignore, but it is not you @Leon


    It's striking how you and Leon both eschew full stops at the end of sentences.
    🤔🤔🤔
    Now you are being silly

    It is a very long time since I passed my English o level [1959] so I do err sometimes
  • This is getting annoying now. Please don't do it.

    I just find it ridiculous that somebody is able to come on here and take the piss out of legitimate left wing posters and get away with it. Pointing that out is surely not a problem. I'd say just the same if they were cosplaying a Tory.

    At any rate, I have said my piece and I stand by it.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,394
    carnforth said:

    "In the end, there was very little to Merkel-worship. Just a vague sense that she was a nice person and — crucially — that conservatives disliked her. Puddle-deep and tribal: the cult of Merkel was modern liberalism at its worst."

    https://archive.is/xfeIZ

    Janan Ganesh on the Merkel-Anbeter, and her new book.

    "For a sense of the tribal shallowness that can overcome smart people, remember that Brits who hated “austerity” swore by this fiscal hawk. Not only did the tension not bother them, I’m not sure it occurred to them in the first place. What mattered was that Merkel, in some ineffable way, seemed to be on the right team. From there, the rest could be backfilled. Her policies? Her track record of judgment? Such a bore."

    Was it? iirc it was those on the right who lauded Merkel. Meanwhile, on this very PB it was pointed out that one reason Osborne's austerity failed was EU austerity, led by Germany. It was also pointed out that Germany was screwing over Greece.

    TRiP Leading will soon be putting up its Angela Merkel video.
  • This is getting annoying now. Please don't do it.

    I just find it ridiculous that somebody is able to come on here and take the piss out of legitimate left wing posters and get away with it. Pointing that out is surely not a problem. I'd say just the same if they were cosplaying a Tory.

    At any rate, I have said my piece and I stand by it.
    Time to move on from it
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,709

    Has it not dawned on anyone that there may actually be a completely independent largely left of centre but with a few actually right wing views who has legitimately joined this platform having watched from a distance for some time.

    From a distance largely because I wasn't receiving joining confirmation mails to my Gmail account, caused I believe by a known technical blip

    Sean, I know you like to come on here with multiple accounts with different personalities and different political views and frankly I found it very annoying initially but now find it quite entertaining.

    But it just means I have no idea if what you say, you believe. So you'll forgive me for taking literally anything you say with a pinch of salt.

    I think literally the only legitimate SKS supporter on this board, is me.
    This is getting annoying now. Please don't do it.
    I agree

    There is no evidence connecting @Leon to @Shecorns88 as I have already posted

    Time to move on
    There’s one infallible test.

    Ask Shecorns88 a question in Welsh.

    If S/he can understand it, s/he is not Leon.
  • I've managed to downgrade this iPhone 12 back to iOS 17. It's running a lot better now, thankfully I've done it just before Apple stopped signing the update.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,864
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Good article on the Syrian Implications for Iran

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/this-is-irans-annus-horribilis/

    Obviously not the most-read article on the Spectator, that has remained the same for the last 72 hours, but still good. It hints that the Syrian drama may actually menace the Tehran regime in the end (emphasis on “may”)

    If the toppling of Assad really does lead to the end of the hideous Iranian regime then I will genuinely celebrate, as that would be an uncontestable victory for humanity

    But it could be replaced by something worse, directly or indirectly, either in and of itself or specifically through the prism of UK and wider western interests, so it's best to avoid celebrating until at least 50 years have passed and a full geopolitical assessment, informed by hard evidence of the consequences, can be made.
    I see the point you are toiling to make, but it is misconceived. If the Tehran regime falls it will NOT be toppled by even nastier Islamists. It would almost certainly be something much friendlier to the west and way less fundamentalist

    So it would be worthy of pretty instant celebration
    Not such a toil that one. One of those where the pen moved itself and all I had to do was not interfere.

    But anyway, yes, you got it. Do not let biases and cod geopolitical forecasting stand in the way of celebrating the good things in life like the end of heinous dictators.
    It also turns out I might be wrong. Amazingly there is a nastier even-more-Islamist element in Iran seeking to overthrow the old Islamists for not being beheady enough

    Fascinating thread

    https://x.com/kasraaarabi/status/1865807232027222312?s=61&t=GGp3Vs1t1kTWDiyA-odnZg

    We need to quarantine the Islamic world, and protect ourselves, as it goes through these apparently endless convulsions of evermore extremism. Surely it must end?

    It’s so bad I now look at Saudi Arabia as a source of relative moderation and hope
    Yep '..With Khamenei’s encouragement, these younger gens—who regard themselves as “Islamist justice seekers”— have also gone after less “ideologically pure/corrupt” elements of the regime. This includes the likes of former president Hassan Rouhani and his team.But have efforts to nurture more radical gens backfired? The younger cohort have become “more catholic than the Pope.” In recent years, they’ve turned on the IRGC’s oligarchy, slamming their corruption, questioning commitment & hesitancy to strike at the regime’s enemies....

    “I spit on political leaders … they have to answer for the trampling on the blood of the martyrs” — a member of the Basij states. “If Haj Qassem was alive he would not have allowed the holy Shia shrines to fall into the hands of the Takfiris.The handling of Syria & fury amongst younger gens also makes it extremely hard for Khamenei to strike a deal with Trump (as a way out). Khamenei cannot be seen shaking hands with the man who killed Soleimani, who was akin to a messianic idol for the younger radicals.'
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,082
    edited December 8
    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Quite honestly I hate to say it but at this point I’d vote Reform UK over the Tories. They at least made some attempt to appeal to me even if all of their solutions are wrong.

    All the way from Corbyn to Farage is some journey !!!!!
    A lot of young people are making that journey. They despair at their lack of opportunities, particularly re housing. Corbyn sounded like he might solve that, but it turned out he was a pitiful nutter

    Now Nigel offers a solution, and at least his has the power of logic. If you stop 1 million people entering the country every year, the pressure on house prices will dissipate fast
    No, it won’t.

    We are 8 million homes short. If we had new zero immigration it would take multiple decades for population decrease to close the gap.
    Don't make me post the French stats again ;)

    I've already demonstrated that, despite having that many more homes, their costs are the same or even higher. And our homebuilding has been even faster than our population growth.
    No, you didn’t. Percentages are not absolute number.

    And forcing vast numbers of people to share properties under increasingly bad conditions doesn’t make for a happy society, either.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,895

    This is getting annoying now. Please don't do it.

    I just find it ridiculous that somebody is able to come on here and take the piss out of legitimate left wing posters and get away with it. Pointing that out is surely not a problem. I'd say just the same if they were cosplaying a Tory.

    At any rate, I have said my piece and I stand by it.
    One, you are doxxing a fellow poster who wishes to remain pseudonymous. Don't do that.

    Two, you're simply wrong. The posting style is very different.

    Three, it really doesn't matter.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,186

    On topic, it wouldn’t take many defections, plus a few by-elections and the LibDems become the Official Opposition.

    The more the rabid nutters flee the Conservatives for the comfort blanket of Reform, the sooner the Conservative Party might actually start to act like an Opposition again. Braverman, Badenoch, Jenrick and all the other closet fruitcakes and nutters should just get it over with and go.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,082
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sky

    Assad granted asylum in Moscow

    Indeed. So his regime has fallen but he looks to have avoided being executed or killed like Saddam or Gaddafi.

    'Syria's ousted President Bashar al Assad has arrived in Moscow, Russian state media has confirmed.

    Mr Assad and members of his family arrived in the city on Sunday, a Kremlin source told the TASS news agency.

    The source said: "Assad and his family members have arrived in Moscow. Russia, for humanitarian reasons, has granted them asylum."'
    https://news.sky.com/story/syrias-president-bashar-al-assad-is-in-moscow-and-has-been-granted-asylum-confirms-russian-state-media-13269955
    A major crisis in the irony meter industry has just been declared, after a colossal simultaneous explosion of every irony meter on the planet left 4000 dead and half a million wounded.

    Industry spokeswoman S R Chasm said, ‘Obviously, we are very alarmed by this turn of events and at a loss to explain it. Such products as we have been able to examine look to have been working fine and then suddenly overloaded. It was as if somebody said something so outrageous the circuitry just couldn’t take it.’

    Iran has already claimed it is terrorism and blamed Israel, who declined to comment.

    Survivors have vowed to replace their meters. ‘Whatever happens, we mos go on.’

    The irony meter’s involved were made in Taiwan, via Taiwan, under a contract for OFSTED.
  • This is getting annoying now. Please don't do it.

    I just find it ridiculous that somebody is able to come on here and take the piss out of legitimate left wing posters and get away with it. Pointing that out is surely not a problem. I'd say just the same if they were cosplaying a Tory.

    At any rate, I have said my piece and I stand by it.
    One, you are doxxing a fellow poster who wishes to remain pseudonymous. Don't do that.

    Two, you're simply wrong. The posting style is very different.

    Three, it really doesn't matter.
    People happily doxxed me.

    I don't think I am wrong.

    I'm happy to leave this at a rest here but I stand by what I said.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    edited December 8
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    SERIOUS POINT

    Whatever the duller people on here choose to believe, I am NOT @Shecorns88 - perhaps there is some way of the mods proving that

    So stop being rude to her/him, this site needs new blood and @Shecorns88 brings an interesting, articulate and fresh point of view. Also, we need avowed Starmerites, there aren’t many wiling to put up a proper fight, and @Shecorns88 does

    I just do not understand why some on here have suggested you are

    Frankly, he/she comes over as a trainee labour intern who seems to shout a lot and uses swearing to try to justify himself/herself

    Best to just ignore, but it is not you @Leon
    It's striking how you and Leon both eschew full stops at the end of sentences.

    🤔🤔🤔
    If you look down the thread you will find this is becoming quite common (as I once predicted). Once you get used to it, then it feels and looks more elegant. The final period at the end of a statement which has obviously finished, anyway, is not needed

    Generally not using full stops, at the end of utterances, also means you have the choice to add one for extra effect if you want to be emphatic or otherwise mark out a sentence or phrase

    Just. Accept. It.



  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,778
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sky

    Assad granted asylum in Moscow

    Indeed. So his regime has fallen but he looks to have avoided being executed or killed like Saddam or Gaddafi.

    'Syria's ousted President Bashar al Assad has arrived in Moscow, Russian state media has confirmed.

    Mr Assad and members of his family arrived in the city on Sunday, a Kremlin source told the TASS news agency.

    The source said: "Assad and his family members have arrived in Moscow. Russia, for humanitarian reasons, has granted them asylum."'
    https://news.sky.com/story/syrias-president-bashar-al-assad-is-in-moscow-and-has-been-granted-asylum-confirms-russian-state-media-13269955
    A major crisis in the irony meter industry has just been declared, after a colossal simultaneous explosion of every irony meter on the planet left 4000 dead and half a million wounded.

    Industry spokeswoman S R Chasm said, ‘Obviously, we are very alarmed by this turn of events and at a loss to explain it. Such products as we have been able to examine look to have been working fine and then suddenly overloaded. It was as if somebody said something so outrageous the circuitry just couldn’t take it.’

    Iran has already claimed it is terrorism and blamed Israel, who declined to comment.

    Survivors have vowed to replace their meters. ‘Whatever happens, we mos go on.’

    "Welcome to Moscow, Mr Assad. Your call-up papers are in the post."
  • I am very glad to see Assad gone. But the chances Syria gets better? Very low.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,709

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sky

    Assad granted asylum in Moscow

    Indeed. So his regime has fallen but he looks to have avoided being executed or killed like Saddam or Gaddafi.

    'Syria's ousted President Bashar al Assad has arrived in Moscow, Russian state media has confirmed.

    Mr Assad and members of his family arrived in the city on Sunday, a Kremlin source told the TASS news agency.

    The source said: "Assad and his family members have arrived in Moscow. Russia, for humanitarian reasons, has granted them asylum."'
    https://news.sky.com/story/syrias-president-bashar-al-assad-is-in-moscow-and-has-been-granted-asylum-confirms-russian-state-media-13269955
    A major crisis in the irony meter industry has just been declared, after a colossal simultaneous explosion of every irony meter on the planet left 4000 dead and half a million wounded.

    Industry spokeswoman S R Chasm said, ‘Obviously, we are very alarmed by this turn of events and at a loss to explain it. Such products as we have been able to examine look to have been working fine and then suddenly overloaded. It was as if somebody said something so outrageous the circuitry just couldn’t take it.’

    Iran has already claimed it is terrorism and blamed Israel, who declined to comment.

    Survivors have vowed to replace their meters. ‘Whatever happens, we mos go on.’

    The irony meter’s involved were made in Taiwan, via Taiwan, under a contract for OFSTED.
    Ofsted don’t do irony. Otherwise, they wouldn’t fail schools for imaginary safeguarding breaches while failing to train or certify their own staff in safeguarding.
  • ydoethur said:

    Has it not dawned on anyone that there may actually be a completely independent largely left of centre but with a few actually right wing views who has legitimately joined this platform having watched from a distance for some time.

    From a distance largely because I wasn't receiving joining confirmation mails to my Gmail account, caused I believe by a known technical blip

    Sean, I know you like to come on here with multiple accounts with different personalities and different political views and frankly I found it very annoying initially but now find it quite entertaining.

    But it just means I have no idea if what you say, you believe. So you'll forgive me for taking literally anything you say with a pinch of salt.

    I think literally the only legitimate SKS supporter on this board, is me.
    This is getting annoying now. Please don't do it.
    I agree

    There is no evidence connecting @Leon to @Shecorns88 as I have already posted

    Time to move on
    There’s one infallible test.

    Ask Shecorns88 a question in Welsh.

    If S/he can understand it, s/he is not Leon.
    Unless you run it through translation AI, like asking Alexa to translate 'coffee bean 100' into Welsh.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,433

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Good article on the Syrian Implications for Iran

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/this-is-irans-annus-horribilis/

    Obviously not the most-read article on the Spectator, that has remained the same for the last 72 hours, but still good. It hints that the Syrian drama may actually menace the Tehran regime in the end (emphasis on “may”)

    If the toppling of Assad really does lead to the end of the hideous Iranian regime then I will genuinely celebrate, as that would be an uncontestable victory for humanity

    We simply don't know where this is going to end up in the short, medium or long term. We can hope, but not know.

    We can also encourage the new regime(s) in a pro-western direction; but that is all we can do: encourage.

    It is up to Syrians. And that, in a sad way, is progress.

    (I'm still interested in what is going to happen to Russian and Iranian/Hezbollah troops in Syria)
    Agreed on the Russians. What is happening right now in that Russian port? Tartus? That must be quite intense right now, as the Russians are - I presume - forced to flee like the Yanks out of Nam
    If whoever is in charge of that area is wise, he might allow an orderly withdrawal - if the Russians allow that option.

    At a larger level: there is a chance that Russia might be allowed to keep their bases in the medium term. That would be an indication - a negative one IMV - of the new regime's priorities, given Russia has been their enemy.
    My ignorant view would be the new regime, finding its feet, would want to do as little to provoke external powers as is possible (given by defeating Assad they've already provoked Russia's ire).
    This may be a sign of the new regime, or regimes, intention. Are the new crowd in Damascus (are they there yet?) in charge of the people on the ground? Will they allow an orderly Russian withdrawal, or fight? What do the local groups want? Want does al-whatever want? What do the Russians want?

    And sometimes events get out of hand, whatever all sides want.

    I'm unsure Russia's ire means much any more. This is a massive embarrassment for Russia. Keeping the bases might be a slight face-saving measure for them. Will the new regime allow it?
    If the Russians could offer investment in upgraded civilian port facilities in exchange for keeping the naval base, then there would be a reason for the new government to do a deal. Rebuilding the economy of Syria, even in the rosy scenario that the civil war is over (which it might not be), is going to be difficult.

    However, Russia isn't really in a position to make such a deal. They don't have anything to offer.
    That's Russia's issue atm. What can they offer the regime they were actively fighting a few days ago, and are failing around the world?
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,186
    xyzxyzxyz said:
    Probably about a day before tinfoil hats are made compulsory....
  • I'm in awe of the hyndefatigability on show, from both hy and jj
  • This is getting annoying now. Please don't do it.

    I just find it ridiculous that somebody is able to come on here and take the piss out of legitimate left wing posters and get away with it. Pointing that out is surely not a problem. I'd say just the same if they were cosplaying a Tory.

    At any rate, I have said my piece and I stand by it.
    One, you are doxxing a fellow poster who wishes to remain pseudonymous. Don't do that.

    Two, you're simply wrong. The posting style is very different.

    Three, it really doesn't matter.
    People happily doxxed me.

    I don't think I am wrong.

    I'm happy to leave this at a rest here but I stand by what I said.
    Your last 7 words are unnecessary
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,709
    Chris said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sky

    Assad granted asylum in Moscow

    Indeed. So his regime has fallen but he looks to have avoided being executed or killed like Saddam or Gaddafi.

    'Syria's ousted President Bashar al Assad has arrived in Moscow, Russian state media has confirmed.

    Mr Assad and members of his family arrived in the city on Sunday, a Kremlin source told the TASS news agency.

    The source said: "Assad and his family members have arrived in Moscow. Russia, for humanitarian reasons, has granted them asylum."'
    https://news.sky.com/story/syrias-president-bashar-al-assad-is-in-moscow-and-has-been-granted-asylum-confirms-russian-state-media-13269955
    A major crisis in the irony meter industry has just been declared, after a colossal simultaneous explosion of every irony meter on the planet left 4000 dead and half a million wounded.

    Industry spokeswoman S R Chasm said, ‘Obviously, we are very alarmed by this turn of events and at a loss to explain it. Such products as we have been able to examine look to have been working fine and then suddenly overloaded. It was as if somebody said something so outrageous the circuitry just couldn’t take it.’

    Iran has already claimed it is terrorism and blamed Israel, who declined to comment.

    Survivors have vowed to replace their meters. ‘Whatever happens, we mos go on.’

    "Welcome to Moscow, Mr Assad. Your call-up papers are in the post."
    From dumbarse to the Donbas?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,709

    ydoethur said:

    Has it not dawned on anyone that there may actually be a completely independent largely left of centre but with a few actually right wing views who has legitimately joined this platform having watched from a distance for some time.

    From a distance largely because I wasn't receiving joining confirmation mails to my Gmail account, caused I believe by a known technical blip

    Sean, I know you like to come on here with multiple accounts with different personalities and different political views and frankly I found it very annoying initially but now find it quite entertaining.

    But it just means I have no idea if what you say, you believe. So you'll forgive me for taking literally anything you say with a pinch of salt.

    I think literally the only legitimate SKS supporter on this board, is me.
    This is getting annoying now. Please don't do it.
    I agree

    There is no evidence connecting @Leon to @Shecorns88 as I have already posted

    Time to move on
    There’s one infallible test.

    Ask Shecorns88 a question in Welsh.

    If S/he can understand it, s/he is not Leon.
    Unless you run it through translation AI, like asking Alexa to translate 'coffee bean 100' into Welsh.
    That didn’t end well for Leon last week.
  • Let's hope that one of these new 50m masts gets built outside my flat. Go VodaThree!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Has it not dawned on anyone that there may actually be a completely independent largely left of centre but with a few actually right wing views who has legitimately joined this platform having watched from a distance for some time.

    From a distance largely because I wasn't receiving joining confirmation mails to my Gmail account, caused I believe by a known technical blip

    Sean, I know you like to come on here with multiple accounts with different personalities and different political views and frankly I found it very annoying initially but now find it quite entertaining.

    But it just means I have no idea if what you say, you believe. So you'll forgive me for taking literally anything you say with a pinch of salt.

    I think literally the only legitimate SKS supporter on this board, is me.
    This is getting annoying now. Please don't do it.
    I agree

    There is no evidence connecting @Leon to @Shecorns88 as I have already posted

    Time to move on
    There’s one infallible test.

    Ask Shecorns88 a question in Welsh.

    If S/he can understand it, s/he is not Leon.
    Unless you run it through translation AI, like asking Alexa to translate 'coffee bean 100' into Welsh.
    That didn’t end well for Leon last week.
    I have news for you on that. More to come
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,236
    Leon said:

    FF43 said:

    Leon said:

    The more narcissistic basically evil, I the case of Braverman, nut jobs join Reform, better for Labour.

    Reform go further and further to the Rabid Right and the more Badenochs Tories and her disgraced Right flank and Reform tear strips off each other trying to be worker than woke and more anti anti establishment.

    Keir meanwhile gets his head down and grafts grafts grafts boringly but relentless steady slow improvement.

    Turning the NHS around, increasing House Building, reducing net migration, clearing the Tory Asylum backlogs.

    Interest rates slip quietly down, mortgage base rate slips in the 3.somethings, god forbid a few tax reductions in the form of slowly increasing tax thresholds, wealth and windfall taxes on the greedy for the needy.

    The massive UK tanker, slowly turned around.

    By 2028 what is the solution, rabid Right or steady solid dependable Left...

    Nah, Labour are fucked. Look how they are already cratering in Scotland. Starmer hasn’t the charisma, wit or ideas to get anything done. One term
    He might get loads done but it wont be enough. The message from Biden loss is loud and clear: being able to point at a long list of technocratic things you've done and how good the GDP is, or how high the % of widgets produced this term is not worth gnats piss in the new political era.

    Thing is, if Labour goes, it means we're done with liberal democracy. Conservatives won't be able to convince anyone, actually we're fine now. So we end up with Reform. And if anyone thinks that's a recipe for sorting things out, I would have a bridge to sell you.

    Except Nigel is selling it already.
    “I’ve got a bridge to sell you” really is the most terrible fucking cliche in English, it is so cringe and cliched it makes the oratory of Sir Keir Starmer look refreshingly witty

    Stop using it
    I never use this cliche except when I can add a twist to it. I know it's boring to explain everything...
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,122

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Good article on the Syrian Implications for Iran

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/this-is-irans-annus-horribilis/

    Obviously not the most-read article on the Spectator, that has remained the same for the last 72 hours, but still good. It hints that the Syrian drama may actually menace the Tehran regime in the end (emphasis on “may”)

    If the toppling of Assad really does lead to the end of the hideous Iranian regime then I will genuinely celebrate, as that would be an uncontestable victory for humanity

    We simply don't know where this is going to end up in the short, medium or long term. We can hope, but not know.

    We can also encourage the new regime(s) in a pro-western direction; but that is all we can do: encourage.

    It is up to Syrians. And that, in a sad way, is progress.

    (I'm still interested in what is going to happen to Russian and Iranian/Hezbollah troops in Syria)
    Agreed on the Russians. What is happening right now in that Russian port? Tartus? That must be quite intense right now, as the Russians are - I presume - forced to flee like the Yanks out of Nam
    If whoever is in charge of that area is wise, he might allow an orderly withdrawal - if the Russians allow that option.

    At a larger level: there is a chance that Russia might be allowed to keep their bases in the medium term. That would be an indication - a negative one IMV - of the new regime's priorities, given Russia has been their enemy.
    My ignorant view would be the new regime, finding its feet, would want to do as little to provoke external powers as is possible (given by defeating Assad they've already provoked Russia's ire).
    This may be a sign of the new regime, or regimes, intention. Are the new crowd in Damascus (are they there yet?) in charge of the people on the ground? Will they allow an orderly Russian withdrawal, or fight? What do the local groups want? Want does al-whatever want? What do the Russians want?

    And sometimes events get out of hand, whatever all sides want.

    I'm unsure Russia's ire means much any more. This is a massive embarrassment for Russia. Keeping the bases might be a slight face-saving measure for them. Will the new regime allow it?
    If the Russians could offer investment in upgraded civilian port facilities in exchange for keeping the naval base, then there would be a reason for the new government to do a deal. Rebuilding the economy of Syria, even in the rosy scenario that the civil war is over (which it might not be), is going to be difficult.

    However, Russia isn't really in a position to make such a deal. They don't have anything to offer.
    That's Russia's issue atm. What can they offer the regime they were actively fighting a few days ago, and are failing around the world?
    You wouldn´t want any Russian sailors or soldiers on your territory at any price. When they leave, freedom is secure, if they stay you end up with Transdnistria or Abhazia. There is no economic benefit when the basic security of your state is under threat from the bad actors in the Moscow Kremlin.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,433
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Good article on the Syrian Implications for Iran

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/this-is-irans-annus-horribilis/

    Obviously not the most-read article on the Spectator, that has remained the same for the last 72 hours, but still good. It hints that the Syrian drama may actually menace the Tehran regime in the end (emphasis on “may”)

    If the toppling of Assad really does lead to the end of the hideous Iranian regime then I will genuinely celebrate, as that would be an uncontestable victory for humanity

    Less likely, as Assad was a Shia leader in a majority Sunni nation (as Saddam on the other side was a Sunni leader in a majority Shia nation). The Iranian regime though are Shia leaders of a majority Shia nation
    You make the facile assumption that for most people, religion matters more than other matters in life.

    You make that assumption because you are a religious fundamentalist.
    In the Middle East it does, whether you are a Shia Muslim or Sunni Muslim (or in relation to Israel a Jew) matters far more than whether you want a socialist or capitalist run economy or even the nation state
    You see, you are seeing this from the perspective of a religious bigot.

    Most people are not religious bigots, even in the ME.

    That is your mistake.
    Yes most people in the ME are flocking to gay pride parades, women wandering around the streets in very little with the authorities not batting an eye lid. They certainly don't have public beheadings, floggings or public hangings in half the ME nations either. Oh wait...
    You are mistaking the people with the regimes. A mistake Assad has made over the last couple of decades.
    Assad was toppled because he was a Shia dictator in a majority Sunni nation. Not because he wasn't pro LGBT enough or too socially conservative and there weren't enough women in his regime.

    In reality Assad was relatively secular in ME terms, the rebels who have toppled his regime are rather more rigorous in their following of the Koran than he is
    Assad was toppled for many reasons. Because you are a religious bigot, you view events through a religious prism.

    You don't care for the tens of thousands he held in prisons without trial *before* the civil war started in 2011. In your mind, they are irrelevant to people's motivations. Ditto other matters. For you, religion is paramount.

    I'd argue the motivations of most people are much wider than the religious viewpoint you aspire to.
  • I am not sure PB is aware but in 2025 we will have the largest mobile telecoms changes in a generation.

    All 3G networks will be completely turned off (only O2 to go) and Vodafone and Three will collectively merge their networks (or start to).

    Because of Beacon - the mast sharing arrangement between O2 and Vodafone which extends to the NewCo ("New Vodafone") - this new network will impact some 50 million people.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,433
    Cicero said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Good article on the Syrian Implications for Iran

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/this-is-irans-annus-horribilis/

    Obviously not the most-read article on the Spectator, that has remained the same for the last 72 hours, but still good. It hints that the Syrian drama may actually menace the Tehran regime in the end (emphasis on “may”)

    If the toppling of Assad really does lead to the end of the hideous Iranian regime then I will genuinely celebrate, as that would be an uncontestable victory for humanity

    We simply don't know where this is going to end up in the short, medium or long term. We can hope, but not know.

    We can also encourage the new regime(s) in a pro-western direction; but that is all we can do: encourage.

    It is up to Syrians. And that, in a sad way, is progress.

    (I'm still interested in what is going to happen to Russian and Iranian/Hezbollah troops in Syria)
    Agreed on the Russians. What is happening right now in that Russian port? Tartus? That must be quite intense right now, as the Russians are - I presume - forced to flee like the Yanks out of Nam
    If whoever is in charge of that area is wise, he might allow an orderly withdrawal - if the Russians allow that option.

    At a larger level: there is a chance that Russia might be allowed to keep their bases in the medium term. That would be an indication - a negative one IMV - of the new regime's priorities, given Russia has been their enemy.
    My ignorant view would be the new regime, finding its feet, would want to do as little to provoke external powers as is possible (given by defeating Assad they've already provoked Russia's ire).
    This may be a sign of the new regime, or regimes, intention. Are the new crowd in Damascus (are they there yet?) in charge of the people on the ground? Will they allow an orderly Russian withdrawal, or fight? What do the local groups want? Want does al-whatever want? What do the Russians want?

    And sometimes events get out of hand, whatever all sides want.

    I'm unsure Russia's ire means much any more. This is a massive embarrassment for Russia. Keeping the bases might be a slight face-saving measure for them. Will the new regime allow it?
    If the Russians could offer investment in upgraded civilian port facilities in exchange for keeping the naval base, then there would be a reason for the new government to do a deal. Rebuilding the economy of Syria, even in the rosy scenario that the civil war is over (which it might not be), is going to be difficult.

    However, Russia isn't really in a position to make such a deal. They don't have anything to offer.
    That's Russia's issue atm. What can they offer the regime they were actively fighting a few days ago, and are failing around the world?
    You wouldn´t want any Russian sailors or soldiers on your territory at any price. When they leave, freedom is secure, if they stay you end up with Transdnistria or Abhazia. There is no economic benefit when the basic security of your state is under threat from the bad actors in the Moscow Kremlin.
    Not helped by the Russian attitude that wherever there are Russians, is Russia...
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,826
    kle4 said:

    Spurs commit hari kiri after being 2 0 up.

    That's an unpleasant description. Have they fully Assaded yet?

    Too soon?
    A fair assessment imho....
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,826

    I am not sure PB is aware but in 2025 we will have the largest mobile telecoms changes in a generation.

    All 3G networks will be completely turned off (only O2 to go) and Vodafone and Three will collectively merge their networks (or start to).

    Because of Beacon - the mast sharing arrangement between O2 and Vodafone which extends to the NewCo ("New Vodafone") - this new network will impact some 50 million people.

    For the better or for the worse......
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