I do hope public sector workers have now stfu from justifying the enormous ENIC increase
The entire twenty-five billion employment tax is coming from the private sector
That's £25b of redundancies, and of cancelled payrises and future hires
And businesses folding
It looks like an anti-growth economic plan to me
I think the private:public sector thing is a red herring. I appreciate that's kinda your thing, but the real issue that this is a tax on "working people" whether they are sorting the bins out for the council or making soy lattes for a private sector business.
The OBR have set out their expectations about pass-through to employment, wages, hours worked and so on - most of it to wages. It's chunky.There are interesting interactions at the bottom - the minimum wage cannot be squeezed so that must impact on employment and hours instead.
And the change in the secondary threshold means the impact is much, much higher for part-time workers earning in and around £10,000 - that's single parents etc.
The change in the employment allowance is great for very small businesses.
But my challenge to you and others: if employer NICs is so pernicious, why do we have it all? And why didn't the Tories abolish it?
They've decided not to bother charging the increased jobs tax on the public sector
I've been railing against employer NICs as a dishonest tax since I first understood them
What an employer pays to pay an employee should be the wage
The whole tax should be honestly shown on the payslip, ie the difference between what an employer pays and the employee receives
To pretend that some of it is paid by the employer is to treat as us fuckwits
Why not abolish income tax, and turn it all into employer NICs?
You could raise exactly the same revenue, from exactly the same jobs, but just say the companies are paying it
I do hope public sector workers have now stfu from justifying the enormous ENIC increase
The entire twenty-five billion employment tax is coming from the private sector
That's £25b of redundancies, and of cancelled payrises and future hires
And businesses folding
It looks like an anti-growth economic plan to me
Let’s not forget international context here. We still have one of the lowest rates of employers NI in the rich world. Netherlands 23%, Germany 20%, Poland 22%, everyone’s favourite Meloni’s Italy 30%, Spain 30%, France up to 50%. Even Singapore 17%. Puts our 15% in perspective. It’s pretty much bang on the global average.
What is the employee rate in these countries?
Making any sort of comparison is difficult due to the massive complexity of taxation country-by-country. The only way you can do it is by %age of GDP, and even then things like employer NICs won't show up as a tax on personal taxation even though so much is passed onto wages.
'Spreadsheet man' Rishi Sunak ran the Tory train into the buffers - he's to blame for the Conservative Party's worst defeat in two centuries, writes LIZ TRUSS
I do hope public sector workers have now stfu from justifying the enormous ENIC increase
The entire twenty-five billion employment tax is coming from the private sector
That's £25b of redundancies, and of cancelled payrises and future hires
And businesses folding
It looks like an anti-growth economic plan to me
Let’s not forget international context here. We still have one of the lowest rates of employers NI in the rich world. Netherlands 23%, Germany 20%, Poland 22%, everyone’s favourite Meloni’s Italy 30%, Spain 30%, France up to 50%. Even Singapore 17%. Puts our 15% in perspective. It’s pretty much bang on the global average.
Uniform swing, so you know the song... But it does highlight the right's problem.
There is a Lib-Lab split, but (at least for now) it's a helpful efficient split; the two parties don't trip over each other in many places.
The RefCon split just hurts each party. And I don't see how they get even as far as non-aggression without a slice of centrish-right votes peeling off the Conservatives.
There are few centre right swing voters left to peel off the Tories, they are down to their core vote. Indeed arguably if Badenoch or Jenrick doesn't work out at the next GE they might even be better with Rees Mogg, he really would unite the Right and collapse the Reform vote to the Tories and with a Labour vote already under 30% would have a shot at PM even with FPTP. Rees Mogg would regain his Somerset seat on the BMG poll today.
Remember too many centrists mocked Jezza but they weren't laughing on election night 2017 when he united the left behind Labour and got 40% of the vote, a hung parliament and 262 Labour MPs.
Even in 2019 when he lost heavily Labour got a higher voteshare under Corbyn than it had under Brown or Ed Miliband
Rees Mogg is a dinosaur and not an mp anyway
If Sunak and Dowden bow out we could see Mogg AND Truss.back in the saddle.
No, Truss is gone had her day. Mogg however is certainly a possible future Tory leader and on tonight's BMG poll would win his seat back
I was joking. They say the returnees are Mogg, Mordaunt and Shapps.
I still think Mordaunt is a good shout against Keir. She has, and I know this will sound pejorative, a bit of 'normal' about her. Somewhat gives me an Alan Johnson feeling when I hear her interviewed. And Keir has that somewhat odd Professor Yaffle tone.
As I understand it, the older crowd like it because when they put their bins out the neighbours don't see a ton of empty wine bottles in the recycling.
They just need to invent box champagne and I’ll be sorted.
'Spreadsheet man' Rishi Sunak ran the Tory train into the buffers - he's to blame for the Conservative Party's worst defeat in two centuries, writes LIZ TRUSS
I do hope public sector workers have now stfu from justifying the enormous ENIC increase
The entire twenty-five billion employment tax is coming from the private sector
That's £25b of redundancies, and of cancelled payrises and future hires
And businesses folding
It looks like an anti-growth economic plan to me
Let’s not forget international context here. We still have one of the lowest rates of employers NI in the rich world. Netherlands 23%, Germany 20%, Poland 22%, everyone’s favourite Meloni’s Italy 30%, Spain 30%, France up to 50%. Even Singapore 17%. Puts our 15% in perspective. It’s pretty much bang on the global average.
I do hope public sector workers have now stfu from justifying the enormous ENIC increase
The entire twenty-five billion employment tax is coming from the private sector
That's £25b of redundancies, and of cancelled payrises and future hires
And businesses folding
It looks like an anti-growth economic plan to me
I think the private:public sector thing is a red herring. I appreciate that's kinda your thing, but the real issue that this is a tax on "working people" whether they are sorting the bins out for the council or making soy lattes for a private sector business.
The OBR have set out their expectations about pass-through to employment, wages, hours worked and so on - most of it to wages. It's chunky.There are interesting interactions at the bottom - the minimum wage cannot be squeezed so that must impact on employment and hours instead.
And the change in the secondary threshold means the impact is much, much higher for part-time workers earning in and around £10,000 - that's single parents etc.
The change in the employment allowance is great for very small businesses.
But my challenge to you and others: if employer NICs is so pernicious, why do we have it all? And why didn't the Tories abolish it?
They've decided not to bother charging the increased jobs tax on the public sector
I've been railing against employer NICs as a dishonest tax since I first understood them
What an employer pays to pay an employee should be the wage
The whole tax should be honestly shown on the payslip, ie the difference between what an employer pays and the employee receives
To pretend that some of it is paid by the employer is to treat as us fuckwits
Why not abolish income tax, and turn it all into employer NICs?
You could raise exactly the same revenue, from exactly the same jobs, but just say the companies are paying it
I can't argue with most of that. In terms of the public sector, it would have all netted off eventually for the same effect; it's part of the labour market too so if not a mitigation of NICs, it would have ended up as more pay rises.
The one thing that is curious about NICs in general is how it's either flat (employer) or actually regressive (employee), and favours self-employment too. A merger of income tax and NICs would be quite complex as a result.
I do hope public sector workers have now stfu from justifying the enormous ENIC increase
The entire twenty-five billion employment tax is coming from the private sector
That's £25b of redundancies, and of cancelled payrises and future hires
And businesses folding
It looks like an anti-growth economic plan to me
Let’s not forget international context here. We still have one of the lowest rates of employers NI in the rich world. Netherlands 23%, Germany 20%, Poland 22%, everyone’s favourite Meloni’s Italy 30%, Spain 30%, France up to 50%. Even Singapore 17%. Puts our 15% in perspective. It’s pretty much bang on the global average.
Let’s be fair - somewhat - to Labour (not something you’ll often hear me say).
The increases in Defence and Justice budgets are good things. Long overdue. @TSE was right that successive Conservative PM’s might be branded “guilty men” if we end up in a shooting war.
Scrapping the WFA is correct. And, the triple lock must go.
The last government was awful, and handed a ton of problems to Labour.
Labour has 412 MP’s. They can take any decision they wish. Let’s pray they make the right ones.
A noble sentiment but the Budget was fiscally and economically reckless, the increases in Defence and Justice are pitiful, and, sadly, they aren't making the right calls on the rest; they haven't touched the triple lock and are splurging on their client groups. And they're actively working against British interests in foreign policy.
You're right they can do what they like though. Let's just hope the judgement of the electorate rapidly chastens them.
'Spreadsheet man' Rishi Sunak ran the Tory train into the buffers - he's to blame for the Conservative Party's worst defeat in two centuries, writes LIZ TRUSS
As I understand it, the older crowd like it because when they put their bins out the neighbours don't see a ton of empty wine bottles in the recycling.
I'd be more concerned as to why a neighbour is going through our bins.
I do hope public sector workers have now stfu from justifying the enormous ENIC increase
The entire twenty-five billion employment tax is coming from the private sector
That's £25b of redundancies, and of cancelled payrises and future hires
And businesses folding
It looks like an anti-growth economic plan to me
Let’s not forget international context here. We still have one of the lowest rates of employers NI in the rich world. Netherlands 23%, Germany 20%, Poland 22%, everyone’s favourite Meloni’s Italy 30%, Spain 30%, France up to 50%. Even Singapore 17%. Puts our 15% in perspective. It’s pretty much bang on the global average.
'Spreadsheet man' Rishi Sunak ran the Tory train into the buffers - he's to blame for the Conservative Party's worst defeat in two centuries, writes LIZ TRUSS
Didn't she previously say she had no idea and was delayed to the election count due to getting some junk food for her kids? Possibly that was a different Liz Truss. The bold one. The one with The Plan For Growth. Not the very, very rubbish one who was in parliament cosplaying a prime minister for a few weeks.
'Spreadsheet man' Rishi Sunak ran the Tory train into the buffers - he's to blame for the Conservative Party's worst defeat in two centuries, writes LIZ TRUSS
Uniform swing, so you know the song... But it does highlight the right's problem.
There is a Lib-Lab split, but (at least for now) it's a helpful efficient split; the two parties don't trip over each other in many places.
The RefCon split just hurts each party. And I don't see how they get even as far as non-aggression without a slice of centrish-right votes peeling off the Conservatives.
There are few centre right swing voters left to peel off the Tories, they are down to their core vote. Indeed arguably if Badenoch or Jenrick doesn't work out at the next GE they might even be better with Rees Mogg, he really would unite the Right and collapse the Reform vote to the Tories and with a Labour vote already under 30% would have a shot at PM even with FPTP. Rees Mogg would regain his Somerset seat on the BMG poll today.
Remember too many centrists mocked Jezza but they weren't laughing on election night 2017 when he united the left behind Labour and got 40% of the vote, a hung parliament and 262 Labour MPs.
Even in 2019 when he lost heavily Labour got a higher voteshare under Corbyn than it had under Brown or Ed Miliband
Rees Mogg is a dinosaur and not an mp anyway
If Sunak and Dowden bow out we could see Mogg AND Truss.back in the saddle.
No, Truss is gone had her day. Mogg however is certainly a possible future Tory leader and on tonight's BMG poll would win his seat back
I was joking. They say the returnees are Mogg, Mordaunt and Shapps.
I still think Mordaunt is a good shout against Keir. She has, and I know this will sound pejorative, a bit of 'normal' about her. Somewhat gives me an Alan Johnson feeling when I hear her interviewed. And Keir has that somewhat odd Professor Yaffle tone.
Bagpuss = Rayner Gabriel the Frog = Ed Miliband Madeline = Lucy Powell The mice = the PLP
Let’s be fair - somewhat - to Labour (not something you’ll often hear me say).
The increases in Defence and Justice budgets are good things. Long overdue. @TSE was right that successive Conservative PM’s might be branded “guilty men” if we end up in a shooting war.
Scrapping the WFA is correct. And, the triple lock must go.
The last government was awful, and handed a ton of problems to Labour.
Labour has 412 MP’s. They can take any decision they wish. Let’s pray they make the right ones.
A noble sentiment but the Budget was fiscally and economically reckless, the increases in Defence and Justice are pitiful, and, sadly, they aren't making the right calls on the rest; they haven't touched the triple lock and are splurging on their client groups. And they're actively working against British interests in foreign policy.
You're right they can do what they like though. Let's just hope the judgement of the electorate rapidly chastens them.
In part, it’s directed at Conservatives. We have to own our mistakes, before we can expect the public to vote for us.
I do hope public sector workers have now stfu from justifying the enormous ENIC increase
The entire twenty-five billion employment tax is coming from the private sector
That's £25b of redundancies, and of cancelled payrises and future hires
And businesses folding
It looks like an anti-growth economic plan to me
Let’s not forget international context here. We still have one of the lowest rates of employers NI in the rich world. Netherlands 23%, Germany 20%, Poland 22%, everyone’s favourite Meloni’s Italy 30%, Spain 30%, France up to 50%. Even Singapore 17%. Puts our 15% in perspective. It’s pretty much bang on the global average.
Incidentally the countries with the highest top rates of income tax are an interesting group. The following all have top rates over 50%:
Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, Israel, Japan, Slovenia. Finland “wins” with 57%. That’s even higher than my own effective tax rate.
What unites those countries? They’re all very neat and tidy. Except some bits of Belgium.
Any tax rate is difficult to interpret in isolation. What are the thresholds for example? And how do other taxes pan out?
Those are all also countries with high overall tax burden. Denmark has the highest overall. They tend to have higher rates for the lower and mid paid too - something we’ve moved away from in the UK which is one reason it’s harder to get as much tax yield here as we used to.
The highest tax countries, with one or two exceptions, also tend to have relatively low rates of corporation tax. They’ve realised it’s a poor way of collecting revenue and a little counter productive.
Let’s be fair - somewhat - to Labour (not something you’ll often hear me say).
The increases in Defence and Justice budgets are good things. Long overdue. @TSE was right that successive Conservative PM’s might be branded “guilty men” if we end up in a shooting war.
Scrapping the WFA is correct. And, the triple lock must go.
The last government was awful, and handed a ton of problems to Labour.
Labour has 412 MP’s. They can take any decision they wish. Let’s pray they make the right ones.
A noble sentiment but the Budget was fiscally and economically reckless, the increases in Defence and Justice are pitiful, and, sadly, they aren't making the right calls on the rest; they haven't touched the triple lock and are splurging on their client groups. And they're actively working against British interests in foreign policy.
You're right they can do what they like though. Let's just hope the judgement of the electorate rapidly chastens them.
So they’re spending more than the Tories on defence and justice priorities, they’ve tackled the cost of pensions just not in the way you prefer (again aligning with Tory policy) and wrt foreign policy they’ve completed plans set out by Cleverly.
Elon Musk lost a bid to move a lawsuit challenging his daily million-dollar giveaway to voters to federal court, putting the lawsuit filed by a progressive Philadelphia district attorney back in front of a state court judge.
As I understand it, the older crowd like it because when they put their bins out the neighbours don't see a ton of empty wine bottles in the recycling.
Slackers.
Real drinkers put the 4.5ltr magnums out with pride.
I do hope public sector workers have now stfu from justifying the enormous ENIC increase
The entire twenty-five billion employment tax is coming from the private sector
That's £25b of redundancies, and of cancelled payrises and future hires
And businesses folding
It looks like an anti-growth economic plan to me
Let’s not forget international context here. We still have one of the lowest rates of employers NI in the rich world. Netherlands 23%, Germany 20%, Poland 22%, everyone’s favourite Meloni’s Italy 30%, Spain 30%, France up to 50%. Even Singapore 17%. Puts our 15% in perspective. It’s pretty much bang on the global average.
Incidentally the countries with the highest top rates of income tax are an interesting group. The following all have top rates over 50%:
Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, Israel, Japan, Slovenia. Finland “wins” with 57%. That’s even higher than my own effective tax rate.
What unites those countries? They’re all very neat and tidy. Except some bits of Belgium.
Any tax rate is difficult to interpret in isolation. What are the thresholds for example? And how do other taxes pan out?
Those are all also countries with high overall tax burden. Denmark has the highest overall. They tend to have higher rates for the lower and mid paid too - something we’ve moved away from in the UK which is one reason it’s harder to get as much tax yield here as we used to.
The highest tax countries, with one or two exceptions, also tend to have relatively low rates of corporation tax. They’ve realised it’s a poor way of collecting revenue and a little counter productive.
I found this interesting chart on how different countries raise their funds:
The USA raises quite a high percentage via income tax etc, it's taxes on goods and services that they are lighter on.
'Spreadsheet man' Rishi Sunak ran the Tory train into the buffers - he's to blame for the Conservative Party's worst defeat in two centuries, writes LIZ TRUSS
'Spreadsheet man' Rishi Sunak ran the Tory train into the buffers - he's to blame for the Conservative Party's worst defeat in two centuries, writes LIZ TRUSS
Liz Truss is - by any measure - an idiot. The worst leader in the Conservatives' history.
I'll raise you Alexander Johnson. He did of course facilitate Truss.
It's a pretty competitive field for worst ever Tory leader, but surely Sunak has the unique accolade of the heaviest defeat for the party since universal suffrage?
'Spreadsheet man' Rishi Sunak ran the Tory train into the buffers - he's to blame for the Conservative Party's worst defeat in two centuries, writes LIZ TRUSS
'Spreadsheet man' Rishi Sunak ran the Tory train into the buffers - he's to blame for the Conservative Party's worst defeat in two centuries, writes LIZ TRUSS
Liz Truss is - by any measure - an idiot. The worst leader in the Conservatives' history.
I'll raise you Alexander Johnson. He did of course facilitate Truss.
It's a pretty competitive field for worst ever Tory leader, but surely Sunak has the unique accolade of the heaviest defeat for the party since universal suffrage?
'Spreadsheet man' Rishi Sunak ran the Tory train into the buffers - he's to blame for the Conservative Party's worst defeat in two centuries, writes LIZ TRUSS
I do hope public sector workers have now stfu from justifying the enormous ENIC increase
The entire twenty-five billion employment tax is coming from the private sector
That's £25b of redundancies, and of cancelled payrises and future hires
And businesses folding
It looks like an anti-growth economic plan to me
Let’s not forget international context here. We still have one of the lowest rates of employers NI in the rich world. Netherlands 23%, Germany 20%, Poland 22%, everyone’s favourite Meloni’s Italy 30%, Spain 30%, France up to 50%. Even Singapore 17%. Puts our 15% in perspective. It’s pretty much bang on the global average.
Incidentally the countries with the highest top rates of income tax are an interesting group. The following all have top rates over 50%:
Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, Israel, Japan, Slovenia. Finland “wins” with 57%. That’s even higher than my own effective tax rate.
What unites those countries? They’re all very neat and tidy. Except some bits of Belgium.
Any tax rate is difficult to interpret in isolation. What are the thresholds for example? And how do other taxes pan out?
Those are all also countries with high overall tax burden. Denmark has the highest overall. They tend to have higher rates for the lower and mid paid too - something we’ve moved away from in the UK which is one reason it’s harder to get as much tax yield here as we used to.
The highest tax countries, with one or two exceptions, also tend to have relatively low rates of corporation tax. They’ve realised it’s a poor way of collecting revenue and a little counter productive.
I found this interesting chart on how different countries raise their funds:
The USA raises quite a high percentage via income tax etc, it's taxes on goods and services that they are lighter on.
'Spreadsheet man' Rishi Sunak ran the Tory train into the buffers - he's to blame for the Conservative Party's worst defeat in two centuries, writes LIZ TRUSS
Liz Truss is - by any measure - an idiot. The worst leader in the Conservatives' history.
I'll raise you Alexander Johnson. He did of course facilitate Truss.
It's a pretty competitive field for worst ever Tory leader, but surely Sunak has the unique accolade of the heaviest defeat for the party since universal suffrage?
That would mean Churchill would be one of the worst Tory leaders ever too. Good luck arguing that case...
'Spreadsheet man' Rishi Sunak ran the Tory train into the buffers - he's to blame for the Conservative Party's worst defeat in two centuries, writes LIZ TRUSS
'Spreadsheet man' Rishi Sunak ran the Tory train into the buffers - he's to blame for the Conservative Party's worst defeat in two centuries, writes LIZ TRUSS
Liz Truss is - by any measure - an idiot. The worst leader in the Conservatives' history.
I'll raise you Alexander Johnson. He did of course facilitate Truss.
It's a pretty competitive field for worst ever Tory leader, but surely Sunak has the unique accolade of the heaviest defeat for the party since universal suffrage?
True, but also a bit unfair. He was just the poor sod left holding the baby after it had done an enormous poo. A dream team hybrid of the best bits of every Conservative leader ever couldn't have saved them in 2022.
I've not got that much sympathy for him- he chose to shill for Brexit and Boris before it was strictly necessary, and was more than happy to let Boris'n'Dom drive a bus over the Saj in early 2020. But he has suffered enough and taken his punishment.
'Spreadsheet man' Rishi Sunak ran the Tory train into the buffers - he's to blame for the Conservative Party's worst defeat in two centuries, writes LIZ TRUSS
Let’s be fair - somewhat - to Labour (not something you’ll often hear me say).
The increases in Defence and Justice budgets are good things. Long overdue. @TSE was right that successive Conservative PM’s might be branded “guilty men” if we end up in a shooting war.
Scrapping the WFA is correct. And, the triple lock must go.
The last government was awful, and handed a ton of problems to Labour.
Labour has 412 MP’s. They can take any decision they wish. Let’s pray they make the right ones.
A noble sentiment but the Budget was fiscally and economically reckless, the increases in Defence and Justice are pitiful, and, sadly, they aren't making the right calls on the rest; they haven't touched the triple lock and are splurging on their client groups. And they're actively working against British interests in foreign policy.
You're right they can do what they like though. Let's just hope the judgement of the electorate rapidly chastens them.
So patients needing healthcare and children needing education are Labour's "client groups"?
'Spreadsheet man' Rishi Sunak ran the Tory train into the buffers - he's to blame for the Conservative Party's worst defeat in two centuries, writes LIZ TRUSS
Liz Truss is - by any measure - an idiot. The worst leader in the Conservatives' history.
I'll raise you Alexander Johnson. He did of course facilitate Truss.
It's a pretty competitive field for worst ever Tory leader, but surely Sunak has the unique accolade of the heaviest defeat for the party since universal suffrage?
He came off the bench with twenty minutes 'til the whistle. He was already six nil down and only let a couple more howlers into the back of the net. The NI cuts and HS2 were unforgivable own goals.
I do hope public sector workers have now stfu from justifying the enormous ENIC increase
The entire twenty-five billion employment tax is coming from the private sector
That's £25b of redundancies, and of cancelled payrises and future hires
And businesses folding
It looks like an anti-growth economic plan to me
Let’s not forget international context here. We still have one of the lowest rates of employers NI in the rich world. Netherlands 23%, Germany 20%, Poland 22%, everyone’s favourite Meloni’s Italy 30%, Spain 30%, France up to 50%. Even Singapore 17%. Puts our 15% in perspective. It’s pretty much bang on the global average.
Incidentally the countries with the highest top rates of income tax are an interesting group. The following all have top rates over 50%:
Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, Israel, Japan, Slovenia. Finland “wins” with 57%. That’s even higher than my own effective tax rate.
What unites those countries? They’re all very neat and tidy. Except some bits of Belgium.
Any tax rate is difficult to interpret in isolation. What are the thresholds for example? And how do other taxes pan out?
Those are all also countries with high overall tax burden. Denmark has the highest overall. They tend to have higher rates for the lower and mid paid too - something we’ve moved away from in the UK which is one reason it’s harder to get as much tax yield here as we used to.
The highest tax countries, with one or two exceptions, also tend to have relatively low rates of corporation tax. They’ve realised it’s a poor way of collecting revenue and a little counter productive.
I found this interesting chart on how different countries raise their funds:
The USA raises quite a high percentage via income tax etc, it's taxes on goods and services that they are lighter on.
'Spreadsheet man' Rishi Sunak ran the Tory train into the buffers - he's to blame for the Conservative Party's worst defeat in two centuries, writes LIZ TRUSS
Liz Truss is - by any measure - an idiot. The worst leader in the Conservatives' history.
I'll raise you Alexander Johnson. He did of course facilitate Truss.
It's a pretty competitive field for worst ever Tory leader, but surely Sunak has the unique accolade of the heaviest defeat for the party since universal suffrage?
The music stopped when Sunak was in charge. It should have stopped years earlier. Rishi Sunak was a lot better than his two predecessors and probably about equal with Theresa May.
'Spreadsheet man' Rishi Sunak ran the Tory train into the buffers - he's to blame for the Conservative Party's worst defeat in two centuries, writes LIZ TRUSS
Liz Truss is - by any measure - an idiot. The worst leader in the Conservatives' history.
I'll raise you Alexander Johnson. He did of course facilitate Truss.
It's a pretty competitive field for worst ever Tory leader, but surely Sunak has the unique accolade of the heaviest defeat for the party since universal suffrage?
That would mean Churchill would be one of the worst Tory leaders ever too. Good luck arguing that case...
If Labour is going to spend more on defence, I'd like to see a proper strategic review which looks at why defence procurement, even by govt standards, is famously bad.
At why we have enormous white elephant aircraft carriers that don't seem to be of any use to... you know... defending the country as opposed to looking nice in pictures.
'Spreadsheet man' Rishi Sunak ran the Tory train into the buffers - he's to blame for the Conservative Party's worst defeat in two centuries, writes LIZ TRUSS
Liz Truss is - by any measure - an idiot. The worst leader in the Conservatives' history.
I'll raise you Alexander Johnson. He did of course facilitate Truss.
It's a pretty competitive field for worst ever Tory leader, but surely Sunak has the unique accolade of the heaviest defeat for the party since universal suffrage?
That's incorrect.
It was their worst defeat ever.
Previous low was 157 in 1906, of whom around 130 were Conservatives and the rest officially Liberal Unionists (definitions of party were a bit vaguer at the time).
It's the second-worst ever defeat for a party that had been in government during the previous parliament, behind Labour's imposing collapse to a mere 52 MPs in 1931.
'Spreadsheet man' Rishi Sunak ran the Tory train into the buffers - he's to blame for the Conservative Party's worst defeat in two centuries, writes LIZ TRUSS
If Labour is going to spend more on defence, I'd like to see a proper strategic review which looks at why defence procurement, even by govt standards, is famously bad.
At why we have enormous white elephant aircraft carriers that don't seem to be of any use to... you know... defending the country as opposed to looking nice in pictures.
To be fair, they are both currently seaworthy and crewed, which is a step up from our submarines.
If Labour is going to spend more on defence, I'd like to see a proper strategic review which looks at why defence procurement, even by govt standards, is famously bad.
At why we have enormous white elephant aircraft carriers that don't seem to be of any use to... you know... defending the country as opposed to looking nice in pictures.
To be fair, they are both currently seaworthy and crewed, which is a step up from our submarines.
{Bernard Wolley mode engaged}
Isn't it a good thing that our ships are a step up from our submarines?
'Spreadsheet man' Rishi Sunak ran the Tory train into the buffers - he's to blame for the Conservative Party's worst defeat in two centuries, writes LIZ TRUSS
Liz Truss is - by any measure - an idiot. The worst leader in the Conservatives' history.
I'll raise you Alexander Johnson. He did of course facilitate Truss.
It's a pretty competitive field for worst ever Tory leader, but surely Sunak has the unique accolade of the heaviest defeat for the party since universal suffrage?
That would mean Churchill would be one of the worst Tory leaders ever too. Good luck arguing that case...
Fought three elections, lost two. Spent most of his time obsessing about foreign affairs to the neglect of important domestic policy. Failed to groom his successor properly. Spent most of his last 18 months in power in such a state of mental decay that the Cabinet used to come out of meetings swearing at his confusion.
He did a few good things too, but yeah, you could make that case.
It was the unforced error of Truss’ demise that makes her standout as spectacularly abysmal. Sunak played a bad hand poorly, but Truss out of nowhere decided to destroy herself.
Obviously Boris is utterly malign, but within the narrow confines of his own standards by winning an election he stands ahead of both Sunak and Truss.
'Spreadsheet man' Rishi Sunak ran the Tory train into the buffers - he's to blame for the Conservative Party's worst defeat in two centuries, writes LIZ TRUSS
Liz Truss is - by any measure - an idiot. The worst leader in the Conservatives' history.
I'll raise you Alexander Johnson. He did of course facilitate Truss.
It's a pretty competitive field for worst ever Tory leader, but surely Sunak has the unique accolade of the heaviest defeat for the party since universal suffrage?
The music stopped when Sunak was in charge. It should have stopped years earlier. Rishi Sunak was a lot better than his two predecessors and probably about equal with Theresa May.
If they'd picked Sunak before Truss detonated a dirty bomb under the economy, he would probably have lost - the legacy of Partygate made that inevitable - but it is highly unlikely he would have lost so badly.
'Spreadsheet man' Rishi Sunak ran the Tory train into the buffers - he's to blame for the Conservative Party's worst defeat in two centuries, writes LIZ TRUSS
Liz Truss is - by any measure - an idiot. The worst leader in the Conservatives' history.
I'll raise you Alexander Johnson. He did of course facilitate Truss.
It's a pretty competitive field for worst ever Tory leader, but surely Sunak has the unique accolade of the heaviest defeat for the party since universal suffrage?
That would mean Churchill would be one of the worst Tory leaders ever too. Good luck arguing that case...
Fought three elections, lost two. Spent most of his time obsessing about foreign affairs to the neglect of important domestic policy. Failed to groom his successor properly. Spent most of his last 18 months in power in such a state of mental decay that the Cabinet used to come out of meetings swearing at his confusion.
He did a few good things too, but yeah, you could make that case.
Only competent when he was in a coalition with Labour and Liberals too.
'Spreadsheet man' Rishi Sunak ran the Tory train into the buffers - he's to blame for the Conservative Party's worst defeat in two centuries, writes LIZ TRUSS
Liz Truss is - by any measure - an idiot. The worst leader in the Conservatives' history.
I'll raise you Alexander Johnson. He did of course facilitate Truss.
It's a pretty competitive field for worst ever Tory leader, but surely Sunak has the unique accolade of the heaviest defeat for the party since universal suffrage?
That would mean Churchill would be one of the worst Tory leaders ever too. Good luck arguing that case...
Fought three elections, lost two. Spent most of his time obsessing about foreign affairs to the neglect of important domestic policy. Failed to groom his successor properly. Spent most of his last 18 months in power in such a state of mental decay that the Cabinet used to come out of meetings swearing at his confusion.
He did a few good things too, but yeah, you could make that case.
Yes, just merely saved Britain from Nazi invasion in 1940 and helped defeat Hitler. Not much of a legacy really
Have we worked out whether Kemi or Jenrick has won yet?
The results will be announced tomorrow.
I know that. That's why I want to know beforehand...😎
It was said that the winner would be revealed in behaviour, with the victor talking to conference attendees preparatory to taking formal command, and the loser...not. I was asking if anybody knew of such signs.
And the answer is yes, they have. They are well ahead of the electrification curve, with too many of the legacy car manufacturers dragged along behind it.
I Love You Maine. @StayWonked · 2h Trump is cooked in Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania when you compare data from @maristpoll examine who has YET to vote and those ALREADY voted.
I Love You Maine. @StayWonked · 2h Trump is going to lose all three- and this the electoral college is going to be a complete blowout.
Have we worked out whether Kemi or Jenrick has won yet?
The results will be announced tomorrow.
I know that. That's why I want to know beforehand...😎
It was said that the winner would be revealed in behaviour, with the victor talking to conference attendees preparatory to taking formal command, and the loser...not. I was asking if anybody knew of such signs.
On the publicly available info both are still acting as if it's all to play for.
The usual heuristic is that (if tomorrow is televised) the loser will be smiling the most as they're told just beforehand and they overcompensate. These two for various reasons I'm not so sure about that.
I've not been following the Royal soap opera but it is hard to see what Charles is up to with Prince Andrew. If the choice is between paying him to shut up, or have him trying to raise money privately, the King may have chosen the greater of two evils.
HIGNFY awful this evening. Barely a joke about Reeves and Starmer's budget beyond bus fares, still mainly at Tories expense.
Left leaning comedians still can't bring themselves to criticise an increasingly unpopular leftwing government
There was a whole round about the budget, and later they made fun of Starmer repeatedly calling Rishi Prime Minister. What do you want in half an hour?
Have we worked out whether Kemi or Jenrick has won yet?
The results will be announced tomorrow.
I know that. That's why I want to know beforehand...😎
It was said that the winner would be revealed in behaviour, with the victor talking to conference attendees preparatory to taking formal command, and the loser...not. I was asking if anybody knew of such signs.
On the publicly available info both are still acting as if it's all to play for.
The usual heuristic is that (if tomorrow is televised) the loser will be smiling the most as they're told just beforehand and they overcompensate. These two for various reasons I'm not so sure about that.
Turnout will be interesting. Could the average Conservative member be bothered even to vote?
Yet again. Just waffling utter nonsense about himself. No pretence that he has to win over people or argue a case.
Acyn @Acyn · 2m Trump: That beautiful white skin that I have would be nice and tan. I have the whitest skin because I never have time to go out in the sun. I have that beautiful white. It could’ve been beautiful tan.
I've not been following the Royal soap opera but it is hard to see what Charles is up to with Prince Andrew. If the choice is between paying him to shut up, or have him trying to raise money privately, the King may have chosen the greater of two evils.
If something bad is coming soon then turning the money off beforehand may be an attempt at preemptive separation and reputation management.
I Love You Maine. @StayWonked · 2h Trump is cooked in Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania when you compare data from @maristpoll examine who has YET to vote and those ALREADY voted.
I Love You Maine. @StayWonked · 2h Trump is going to lose all three- and this the electoral college is going to be a complete blowout.
I believe that my exact wording was "Harris will win - and it won't be close..."
I'm planning to go to bed and get up at 4am as if I'm on the early flight down to London. Which I will be the same time the week after. I'm not expecting that we'll have it concluded by then either. We're bound to get the mushroom one do some mentalist press conference around breakfast time and I want to be watching.
Meanwhile, in "not even bothering to get on the ship, which may say something for its seaworthiness" news,
Excellent lunch with the FT, you really get a sense of what Cleverly is like person-to-person. Plus Lucy gets an exclusive from him that he WON'T be staying in the Shadow Cabinet.
Gosh, that's quite the blow. What will frontline politics be without Jimmy Dimmly - a man so stupid he managed to lend enough voters to lose himself the election.
'Spreadsheet man' Rishi Sunak ran the Tory train into the buffers - he's to blame for the Conservative Party's worst defeat in two centuries, writes LIZ TRUSS
Liz Truss is - by any measure - an idiot. The worst leader in the Conservatives' history.
I don't think she's an idiot, but an idiot who tries her best to get the country back on its feet is someone I value 1000 times more than a genius who doesn't give a monkeys.
'Spreadsheet man' Rishi Sunak ran the Tory train into the buffers - he's to blame for the Conservative Party's worst defeat in two centuries, writes LIZ TRUSS
Liz Truss is - by any measure - an idiot. The worst leader in the Conservatives' history.
I'll raise you Alexander Johnson. He did of course facilitate Truss.
It's a pretty competitive field for worst ever Tory leader, but surely Sunak has the unique accolade of the heaviest defeat for the party since universal suffrage?
That would mean Churchill would be one of the worst Tory leaders ever too. Good luck arguing that case...
Churchill won in 1951
Although, sounding sadly Trumpish, he lost the popular vote!
Meanwhile, in "not even bothering to get on the ship, which may say something for its seaworthiness" news,
Excellent lunch with the FT, you really get a sense of what Cleverly is like person-to-person. Plus Lucy gets an exclusive from him that he WON'T be staying in the Shadow Cabinet.
Gosh, that's quite the blow. What will frontline politics be without Jimmy Dimmly - a man so stupid he managed to lend enough voters to lose himself the election.
It's going to be interesting to see who gets a place in Kemi's shadow cabinet. It's a pretty thin pool to draw on.
Meanwhile, in "not even bothering to get on the ship, which may say something for its seaworthiness" news,
Excellent lunch with the FT, you really get a sense of what Cleverly is like person-to-person. Plus Lucy gets an exclusive from him that he WON'T be staying in the Shadow Cabinet.
Gosh, that's quite the blow. What will frontline politics be without Jimmy Dimmly - a man so stupid he managed to lend enough voters to lose himself the election.
They asked Cleverly what he thought of the swanky restaurant that the FT took him to.
'Spreadsheet man' Rishi Sunak ran the Tory train into the buffers - he's to blame for the Conservative Party's worst defeat in two centuries, writes LIZ TRUSS
Liz Truss is - by any measure - an idiot. The worst leader in the Conservatives' history.
I'll raise you Alexander Johnson. He did of course facilitate Truss.
It's a pretty competitive field for worst ever Tory leader, but surely Sunak has the unique accolade of the heaviest defeat for the party since universal suffrage?
That would mean Churchill would be one of the worst Tory leaders ever too. Good luck arguing that case...
Fought three elections, lost two. Spent most of his time obsessing about foreign affairs to the neglect of important domestic policy. Failed to groom his successor properly. Spent most of his last 18 months in power in such a state of mental decay that the Cabinet used to come out of meetings swearing at his confusion.
He did a few good things too, but yeah, you could make that case.
Yes, just merely saved Britain from Nazi invasion in 1940 and helped defeat Hitler. Not much of a legacy really
Saved the country from the majority in the Tory Party that wanted to negotiate a surrender, I am sure you meant to say.
It is amusing that with all the billions of dollars spent on campaigning, I imagine hundreds of millions on polls and doubtless billions of words written and spoken, a fair few of them on here, nevertheless tossing a $0.01 coin would probably be as good a way of predicting the result at the moment.
'Spreadsheet man' Rishi Sunak ran the Tory train into the buffers - he's to blame for the Conservative Party's worst defeat in two centuries, writes LIZ TRUSS
Liz Truss is - by any measure - an idiot. The worst leader in the Conservatives' history.
I'll raise you Alexander Johnson. He did of course facilitate Truss.
It's a pretty competitive field for worst ever Tory leader, but surely Sunak has the unique accolade of the heaviest defeat for the party since universal suffrage?
That would mean Churchill would be one of the worst Tory leaders ever too. Good luck arguing that case...
Fought three elections, lost two. Spent most of his time obsessing about foreign affairs to the neglect of important domestic policy. Failed to groom his successor properly. Spent most of his last 18 months in power in such a state of mental decay that the Cabinet used to come out of meetings swearing at his confusion.
He did a few good things too, but yeah, you could make that case.
Yes, just merely saved Britain from Nazi invasion in 1940 and helped defeat Hitler. Not much of a legacy really
Saved the country from the majority in the Tory Party that wanted to negotiate a surrender, I am sure you meant to say.
Wouldn’t have been a surrender, just stopping being at war. There was never a hope of a sucessful German invasion/occupation. The poor French had no English Channel and huge navy to save them.
Comments
I've been railing against employer NICs as a dishonest tax since I first understood them
What an employer pays to pay an employee should be the wage
The whole tax should be honestly shown on the payslip, ie the difference between what an employer pays and the employee receives
To pretend that some of it is paid by the employer is to treat as us fuckwits
Why not abolish income tax, and turn it all into employer NICs?
You could raise exactly the same revenue, from exactly the same jobs, but just say the companies are paying it
https://www.oecd.org/en/data/indicators/tax-on-personal-income.html
https://www.oecd.org/en/data/indicators/social-security-contributions.html
and so on
Germany 20%
Poland 14%
Italy 10%
Spain 6%
France 23%
Singapore 20%
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-14030337/BORIS-JOHNSON-Rachel-Theeves-taken-aim-UK-economy-sheer-cold-eyed-malevolence-socked-squarely-mazzard.html
Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, Israel, Japan, Slovenia. Finland “wins” with 57%. That’s even higher than my own effective tax rate.
What unites those countries? They’re all very neat and tidy. Except some bits of Belgium.
The one thing that is curious about NICs in general is how it's either flat (employer) or actually regressive (employee), and favours self-employment too. A merger of income tax and NICs would be quite complex as a result.
You're right they can do what they like though. Let's just hope the judgement of the electorate rapidly chastens them.
Gabriel the Frog = Ed Miliband
Madeline = Lucy Powell
The mice = the PLP
Emily = Lord Alli
Any better matches?
The highest tax countries, with one or two exceptions, also tend to have relatively low rates of corporation tax. They’ve realised it’s a poor way of collecting revenue and a little counter productive.
They must be a bit too right wing for you.
Elon Musk lost a bid to move a lawsuit challenging his daily million-dollar giveaway to voters to federal court, putting the lawsuit filed by a progressive Philadelphia district attorney back in front of a state court judge.
https://x.com/bpolitics/status/1852454129332896166
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cm20dv560j2o
Real drinkers put the 4.5ltr magnums out with pride.
The USA raises quite a high percentage via income tax etc, it's taxes on goods and services that they are lighter on.
Left leaning comedians still can't bring themselves to criticise an increasingly unpopular leftwing government
I've not got that much sympathy for him- he chose to shill for Brexit and Boris before it was strictly necessary, and was more than happy to let Boris'n'Dom drive a bus over the Saj in early 2020. But he has suffered enough and taken his punishment.
At why we have enormous white elephant aircraft carriers that don't seem to be of any use to... you know... defending the country as opposed to looking nice in pictures.
It was their worst defeat ever.
Previous low was 157 in 1906, of whom around 130 were Conservatives and the rest officially Liberal Unionists (definitions of party were a bit vaguer at the time).
It's the second-worst ever defeat for a party that had been in government during the previous parliament, behind Labour's imposing collapse to a mere 52 MPs in 1931.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geoff_Norcott#:~:text=He has previously claimed to,about six" right wing comedians.
Isn't it a good thing that our ships are a step up from our submarines?
Now we already have a poll tonight putting the Tories ahead of Labour with Starmer and Reeves both deep in net negative approval
He did a few good things too, but yeah, you could make that case.
We've seen a sustained move towards Kamala Harris in the last 24 hours.
She's now 11/8 (from 7/4) to win the US Election.
https://x.com/LadPolitics/status/1852461306118656492
Obviously Boris is utterly malign, but within the narrow confines of his own standards by winning an election he stands ahead of both Sunak and Truss.
Our final U.S. presidential election MRP has just dropped 👇
Harris 240 (-10 from mid-Oct)
Trump 218 (-1)
Tossups 80 (+11)
https://x.com/YouGov/status/1852460856979734974
It was said that the winner would be revealed in behaviour, with the victor talking to conference attendees preparatory to taking formal command, and the loser...not. I was asking if anybody knew of such signs.
https://today.yougov.com/elections/us/2024
Trump gets AZ and GA, Harris gets NV, NC, PA and WI
Hail to the first female POTUS.
https://www.ft.com/content/faa69e29-bc47-46ae-80c7-8240d0aae9e6
And the answer is yes, they have. They are well ahead of the electrification curve, with too many of the legacy car manufacturers dragged along behind it.
I Love You Maine.
@StayWonked
·
2h
Trump is cooked in Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania when you compare data from
@maristpoll
examine who has YET to vote and those ALREADY voted.
I Love You Maine.
@StayWonked
·
2h
Trump is going to lose all three- and this the electoral college is going to be a complete blowout.
https://x.com/StayWonked/status/1852434334478717147
The usual heuristic is that (if tomorrow is televised) the loser will be smiling the most as they're told just beforehand and they overcompensate. These two for various reasons I'm not so sure about that.
Luke Radel @lukeradel
BREAKING: I asked @SpeakerJohnson if he’ll try to repeal the CHIPS Act if Trump wins and they have control of Congress.
“I expect that we probably will.”
@RepWilliams responds: “I will remind him night and day how important the CHIPS Act is.” #NY22
James Singer @Jemsinger
Mike Johnson wants to lose Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, and North Carolina jobs
https://x.com/lukeradel/status/1852457020877582462
Yet again. Just waffling utter nonsense about himself. No pretence that he has to win over people or argue a case.
Acyn
@Acyn
·
2m
Trump: That beautiful white skin that I have would be nice and tan. I have the whitest skin because I never have time to go out in the sun. I have that beautiful white. It could’ve been beautiful tan.
https://x.com/Acyn/status/1852469023663091826
Kamala HQ
@KamalaHQ
·
6m
Trump announces he is considering raising taxes on imported goods to “400 percent”: “I don’t give a damn”
https://x.com/KamalaHQ
I'm planning to go to bed and get up at 4am as if I'm on the early flight down to London. Which I will be the same time the week after. I'm not expecting that we'll have it concluded by then either. We're bound to get the mushroom one do some mentalist press conference around breakfast time and I want to be watching.
@PpollingNumbers
General Election Poll
🔴 Arizona - Trump +1
🔴 Georgia - Trump +2
🔴 North Carolina - Trump +1
🔵 Nevada - Harris +1
🔵 Pennsylvania - Harris +2
🔵 Michigan - Harris +2
🔵 Wisconsin - Harris +3
YouGov (Times) #B - LV - 10/31
https://x.com/PpollingNumbers/status/1852444640181715175
"Its a shithole" said Cleverly.