Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Trump as Corbyn, Biden as May, and Harris as Johnson? – politicalbetting.com

2456

Comments

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,508
    “We’re getting out of the fact business.”

    CBS News Says It Will Be Up To Vance And Walz To Fact-Check Each Other. https://apnews.com/article/cbs-debate-vice-president-fact-check-7a3b31c98ab092dd44915df57a359d10

    ABC showed it could be done. Now:

    "CBS News is clearly indicating it wants to take a step back from the heat generated by calling attention to misleading statements by candidates."

    https://x.com/jayrosen_nyu/status/1840213823099126003
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    edited September 29
    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Israel has just killed ANOTHER Hezbollah leader

    War is horrific, but as horrors go this is impressively efficient

    But it also begs the question: why was this chilling accuracy not used against Hamas, why instead did they carpet bomb civilians?

    Because Bibi wants to commit genocide/ethnic cleansing in the occupied territories, if you follow that, he's not interested in a greater Israel.
    Yes, that is my suspicion
    If you look at some of the stuff his cabinet have said publicly, such as the below, you can only imagine what they say/do in private.

    The EU, France and UK have condemned a senior Israeli minister for suggesting it might be “justified and moral” to starve people in Gaza.

    Israel’s finance minister, Bezalel Smotrich, sparked international outrage after he said on Wednesday: “No one in the world will allow us to starve 2 million people, even though it might be justified and moral in order to free the hostages.”

    Separately on Wednesday, Israel’s Channel 12 broadcasted security camera footage that reportedly showed the sexual assault of a Palestinian detainee from Gaza at Sde Teiman military detention camp. Last week, the detention of the soldiers accused of involvement in the alleged abuse sparked violent riots.


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/aug/08/israel-finance-minister-bezalel-smotrich-gaza-starve-2m-people-comments
    I said at the beginning I suspected this of Israel. It’s the only logic behind their behaviour in Gaza - a “final solution” to the Palestinian problem. Just cleanse them entirely: make Gaza uninhabitable and terrify them out of the West Bank

    And if you’re an Israeli looking at October 7 I can see why you might feel that way. The Jewish state cannot tolerate the mere possibility it might happen again - it is existential. AND if you’re going to do this you have to get it done before Iran acquires nukes

    So: this will end either with the elimination of any Palestinian homeland or the destruction of Israel
    Israel can't defeat Hamas by invading and occupying the Palestinian Authority any more than the UK could defeat the IRA by invading and occupying the Republic of Ireland and West Belfast
    Of course they can, if they press their advantages until the enemies surrender unconditionally.

    Just as we pressed our advantages until the Nazis surrendered unconditionally.
    Just as the Americans pressed theirs until the Japanese surrendered unconditionally.
    Just as the Sri Lankans pressed theirs until the Tamil Tigers surrendered unconditionally.

    Unconditional surrender ends wars.
    Ethnic cleansing also ends historic conflicts. Cf Turkey/Greece

    This is what Israel is pursuing. They just can’t say it
    Indeed they can’t.

    The Gaza Strip would make for some first class seaside real estate when redeveloped.
    Pretty much everyone with coastline in the Middle East is now planning to copy Dubai and build hotels on the beaches.

    Tourism should be a large attraction for the whole region, especially as it’s mostly off-season for European visitors, somewhere to find sun in winter. Doesn’t work too well if there’s a war on though.
  • TresTres Posts: 2,685
    Andy_JS said:

    Why do people think most of the attempts to seriously dent Trump's support haven't worked?

    Same reason the Taliban keep being popular in Afghanistan - many ppl are aresholes.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,344
    Nigelb said:

    “We’re getting out of the fact business.”

    CBS News Says It Will Be Up To Vance And Walz To Fact-Check Each Other. https://apnews.com/article/cbs-debate-vice-president-fact-check-7a3b31c98ab092dd44915df57a359d10

    ABC showed it could be done. Now:

    "CBS News is clearly indicating it wants to take a step back from the heat generated by calling attention to misleading statements by candidates."

    https://x.com/jayrosen_nyu/status/1840213823099126003

    Takes too much time, as far as Vance is concerned?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    Nigelb said:

    “We’re getting out of the fact business.”

    CBS News Says It Will Be Up To Vance And Walz To Fact-Check Each Other. https://apnews.com/article/cbs-debate-vice-president-fact-check-7a3b31c98ab092dd44915df57a359d10

    ABC showed it could be done. Now:

    "CBS News is clearly indicating it wants to take a step back from the heat generated by calling attention to misleading statements by candidates."

    https://x.com/jayrosen_nyu/status/1840213823099126003

    This is all because ABC only fact-checked one side, made mistakes as they did so, and let a load of untruths from the other candidate go totally unchallenged.

    https://www.factcheck.org/2024/09/factchecking-the-harris-trump-debate/

    Given how long that list is, they both said more that was wrong about each other, than was correct.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,825
    edited September 29
    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Israel has just killed ANOTHER Hezbollah leader

    War is horrific, but as horrors go this is impressively efficient

    But it also begs the question: why was this chilling accuracy not used against Hamas, why instead did they carpet bomb civilians?

    Because Bibi wants to commit genocide/ethnic cleansing in the occupied territories, if you follow that, he's not interested in a greater Israel.
    Yes, that is my suspicion
    If you look at some of the stuff his cabinet have said publicly, such as the below, you can only imagine what they say/do in private.

    The EU, France and UK have condemned a senior Israeli minister for suggesting it might be “justified and moral” to starve people in Gaza.

    Israel’s finance minister, Bezalel Smotrich, sparked international outrage after he said on Wednesday: “No one in the world will allow us to starve 2 million people, even though it might be justified and moral in order to free the hostages.”

    Separately on Wednesday, Israel’s Channel 12 broadcasted security camera footage that reportedly showed the sexual assault of a Palestinian detainee from Gaza at Sde Teiman military detention camp. Last week, the detention of the soldiers accused of involvement in the alleged abuse sparked violent riots.


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/aug/08/israel-finance-minister-bezalel-smotrich-gaza-starve-2m-people-comments
    I said at the beginning I suspected this of Israel. It’s the only logic behind their behaviour in Gaza - a “final solution” to the Palestinian problem. Just cleanse them entirely: make Gaza uninhabitable and terrify them out of the West Bank

    And if you’re an Israeli looking at October 7 I can see why you might feel that way. The Jewish state cannot tolerate the mere possibility it might happen again - it is existential. AND if you’re going to do this you have to get it done before Iran acquires nukes

    So: this will end either with the elimination of any Palestinian homeland or the destruction of Israel
    Israel can't defeat Hamas by invading and occupying the Palestinian Authority any more than the UK could defeat the IRA by invading and occupying the Republic of Ireland and West Belfast
    Of course they can, if they press their advantages until the enemies surrender unconditionally.

    Just as we pressed our advantages until the Nazis surrendered unconditionally.
    Just as the Americans pressed theirs until the Japanese surrendered unconditionally.
    Just as the Sri Lankans pressed theirs until the Tamil Tigers surrendered unconditionally.

    Unconditional surrender ends wars.
    Ethnic cleansing also ends historic conflicts. Cf Turkey/Greece

    This is what Israel is pursuing. They just can’t say it
    Indeed they can’t.

    The Gaza Strip would make for some first class seaside real estate when redeveloped.
    Pretty much everyone with coastline in the Middle East is now planning to copy Dubai and build hotels on the beaches.

    Tourism should be a large attraction for the whole region, especially as it’s mostly off-season for European visitors, somewhere to find sun in winter.
    If it dropped the violence and distaste for alcohol and women then the Middle East would be beautifully situated to make a fortune from tourism.

    Sharm el-Sheikh was itself of course developed by Israel while it occupied the land, and it became a very successful tourist area which it remains to this day after Egypt accepted peace with Israel.

    Egypt accepting it had lost the war ended the cycle of violence with Israel and has led to much more prosperity since, even if not great amounts of freedom. Far better than what the Palestinians have under Hamas.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,205

    Andy_JS said:

    "If Starmer, Lammy and Miliband are the best our elites can produce, Britain is surely ripe for revolution.
    Tom Slater"

    https://www.spiked-online.com/2024/09/28/led-by-pygmies/

    That's the very last thing we need, and what scares me the most.

    I can see situations when I'm forced to defend or even vote Labour to stop it.
    It's also quite funny. Our media - both old and new - are part of the problem, and often part of the elite. The travails of the country are not just caused by politicians, but the media as well.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Israel has just killed ANOTHER Hezbollah leader

    War is horrific, but as horrors go this is impressively efficient

    But it also begs the question: why was this chilling accuracy not used against Hamas, why instead did they carpet bomb civilians?

    Because Bibi wants to commit genocide/ethnic cleansing in the occupied territories, if you follow that, he's not interested in a greater Israel.
    Yes, that is my suspicion
    If you look at some of the stuff his cabinet have said publicly, such as the below, you can only imagine what they say/do in private.

    The EU, France and UK have condemned a senior Israeli minister for suggesting it might be “justified and moral” to starve people in Gaza.

    Israel’s finance minister, Bezalel Smotrich, sparked international outrage after he said on Wednesday: “No one in the world will allow us to starve 2 million people, even though it might be justified and moral in order to free the hostages.”

    Separately on Wednesday, Israel’s Channel 12 broadcasted security camera footage that reportedly showed the sexual assault of a Palestinian detainee from Gaza at Sde Teiman military detention camp. Last week, the detention of the soldiers accused of involvement in the alleged abuse sparked violent riots.


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/aug/08/israel-finance-minister-bezalel-smotrich-gaza-starve-2m-people-comments
    I said at the beginning I suspected this of Israel. It’s the only logic behind their behaviour in Gaza - a “final solution” to the Palestinian problem. Just cleanse them entirely: make Gaza uninhabitable and terrify them out of the West Bank

    And if you’re an Israeli looking at October 7 I can see why you might feel that way. The Jewish state cannot tolerate the mere possibility it might happen again - it is existential. AND if you’re going to do this you have to get it done before Iran acquires nukes

    So: this will end either with the elimination of any Palestinian homeland or the destruction of Israel
    Israel can't defeat Hamas by invading and occupying the Palestinian Authority any more than the UK could defeat the IRA by invading and occupying the Republic of Ireland and West Belfast
    Of course they can, if they press their advantages until the enemies surrender unconditionally.

    Just as we pressed our advantages until the Nazis surrendered unconditionally.
    Just as the Americans pressed theirs until the Japanese surrendered unconditionally.
    Just as the Sri Lankans pressed theirs until the Tamil Tigers surrendered unconditionally.

    Unconditional surrender ends wars.
    Ethnic cleansing also ends historic conflicts. Cf Turkey/Greece

    This is what Israel is pursuing. They just can’t say it
    Indeed they can’t.

    The Gaza Strip would make for some first class seaside real estate when redeveloped.
    Pretty much everyone with coastline in the Middle East is now planning to copy Dubai and build hotels on the beaches.

    Tourism should be a large attraction for the whole region, especially as it’s mostly off-season for European visitors, somewhere to find sun in winter.
    If it dropped the violence and distaste for alcohol and women then the Middle East would be beautifully situated to make a fortune from tourism.

    Sharm el-Sheikh was itself of course developed by Israel while it occupied the land, and it became a very successful tourist area which it remains to this day after Egypt accepted peace with Israel.

    Egypt accepting it had lost the war ended the cycle of violence with Israel and has led to much more prosperity since, even if not great amounts of freedom. Far better than what the Palestinians have under Hamas.
    Sharm-el-Sheikh is lovely, a good example of what they could all be doing. If you stop the war, you start attracting tourists.

    Even the Saudis are preparing to relax rules on alcohol and women’s dress in their new resort city on the Red Sea. It’ll be a ‘closed city’ with no locals there. Just across the sea from Sharm, as it happens.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,508
    If you build it, will they come? Insect community responses to habitat establishment at solar energy facilities in Minnesota, USA

    https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/ad0f72
    Global declines in insect populations have important implications for biodiversity and food security. To offset these declines, habitat restoration and enhancement in agricultural landscapes could mutually safeguard insect populations and their pollination services for crop production. The expansion of utility-scale solar energy development in agricultural landscapes presents an opportunity for the dual use of the land for energy production and biodiversity conservation through the establishment of grasses and forbs planted among and between the photovoltaic solar arrays ('solar-pollinator habitat'). We conducted a longitudinal field study across 5 years (2018–2022) to understand how insect communities responded to newly established habitat on solar energy facilities in agricultural landscapes by evaluating (1) temporal changes in flowering plant abundance and diversity; (2) temporal changes in insect abundance and diversity; and (3) the pollination services of solar-pollinator habitat by comparing pollinator visitation to agricultural fields near solar-pollinator habitat with other agricultural field locations. We found increases over time for all habitat and biodiversity metrics: floral rank, flowering plant species richness, insect group diversity, native bee abundance, and total insect abundance, with the most noticeable temporal increases in native bee abundance. We also found positive effects of proximity to solar-pollinator habitat on bee visitation to nearby soybean (Glycine max) fields. Bee visitation to soybean flowers adjacent to solar-pollinator habitat were comparable to bee visitation to soybeans adjacent to grassland areas enrolled in the Conservation Reserve Program, and greater than bee visitation to soybean field interior and roadside soybean flowers. Our observations highlight the relatively rapid (<4 year) insect community responses to grassland restoration activities and provide support for solar-pollinator habitat as a feasible conservation practice to safeguard biodiversity and increase food security in agricultural landscapes...</i>
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,342
    Penny Mordaunt has taken on the role of increasing Conservative Party membership.
  • Crikey.

    Former deputy prime minister Sir Oliver Dowden has become the most senior ally of Rishi Sunak to be interviewed in the official investigation into betting on the date of the general election, Sky News understands.

    He follows Mr Sunak's former parliamentary aide Craig Williams and former Downing Street chief of staff Liam Booth-Smith in being questioned by the Gambling Commission, the statutory body that regulates betting in the UK.

    Mr Sunak has not yet been interviewed, Sky News understands, though "numerous people" including Conservative Party officials have been.

    The inquiry - launched in June - is set to continue for another three to six months.

    News of Sir Oliver's interview, along with the seizing of "hundreds of documents" from Tory HQ by the commission, has emerged on the day the Conservative Party Conference opened in Birmingham.

    Ironically, the Gambling Commission's head office, on the fourth floor of Victoria Square House, Victoria Square, Birmingham, is just a half-mile, 10-minute walk from the ICC, where the Tory conference is taking place.


    https://news.sky.com/story/former-deputy-pm-oliver-dowden-interviewed-in-election-day-betting-probe-13224498
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,583
    theProle said:

    theProle said:

    MaxPB said:

    I think Kemi is unfit to be leader having just read her comments on maternity leave/pay. It's absolutely idiotic, in a country where we have a birth rate lower than the replacement rate we need for families to have an extra child, not have fewer because they can't afford the time off.

    If anything maternity pay and early years childcare funding needs to go up substantially so that parents don't feel as though they can't have 2 kids instead of 1 or decide that 2 is enough and not go for a third one etc...

    I don't know if it plays well with members, perhaps it does because they're all old fuckers who "didn't have that in our day and we raised a family of 17 on a single salary" but this shows she doesn't understand the major demographic issue facing the nation and a big driver of migration in the last 10 years.

    The best fix for larger family sizes is to sort the housing market, so buying a decent house doesn't require both parents to be out at work and the child dumped in childcare from 6 months old.

    Maternity pay is a side-show compared to this.

    Educated women want to use their education.
    I'm not sure I'd assume that. The issue is that in large swathes of the country, house prices mean they don't have a choice.

    I don't want to make people into stay at home mums (or dads) if they actually want to go back to work (although I don't really get why people want to have kids and then spend no time with them). What I really dislike is that we're setting up a society where that is the only option, unless you are stinking rich.
    Absolutely. The number of people, male or female, who love their job enough to do it over whatever else might fill their time is pretty small - that's why they have to pay you to do it - though unfortunately seems to include most policymakers and pundits.
    I'm lucky enough to have a job which I find interesting and which isn't stressful. Is it a good way to earn a living? Sure. Would it be top of my list of things to do, given a free choice? Of course not.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,344
    theProle said:

    theProle said:

    MaxPB said:

    I think Kemi is unfit to be leader having just read her comments on maternity leave/pay. It's absolutely idiotic, in a country where we have a birth rate lower than the replacement rate we need for families to have an extra child, not have fewer because they can't afford the time off.

    If anything maternity pay and early years childcare funding needs to go up substantially so that parents don't feel as though they can't have 2 kids instead of 1 or decide that 2 is enough and not go for a third one etc...

    I don't know if it plays well with members, perhaps it does because they're all old fuckers who "didn't have that in our day and we raised a family of 17 on a single salary" but this shows she doesn't understand the major demographic issue facing the nation and a big driver of migration in the last 10 years.

    The best fix for larger family sizes is to sort the housing market, so buying a decent house doesn't require both parents to be out at work and the child dumped in childcare from 6 months old.

    Maternity pay is a side-show compared to this.

    Educated women want to use their education.
    I'm not sure I'd assume that. The issue is that in large swathes of the country, house prices mean they don't have a choice.

    I don't want to make people into stay at home mums (or dads) if they actually want to go back to work (although I don't really get why people want to have kids and then spend no time with them). What I really dislike is that we're setting up a society where that is the only option, unless you are stinking rich.
    I’m not sure either! I’ve worked with plenty of degree-holding women who didn’t, apparently ‘need’ to work but who did, but they tended to be older, and therefore to have older children and/or have paid for their houses.
    Or, of course, they were single!
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    The Aussies know the weather is coming, and are pushing hard to get the runs. That six puts them ahead on the DLS, but they need to get to 20 overs before the rain.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,700
    Catching up with the Saturday Rawnsley. This seems about right (though TBF he's mainly repeating what I said the other day :wink: ):

    Cabinet members with initiatives they’re itching to take are chafing against the restraints imposed by Rachel Reeves’ powerful bailiwick because it is blocking any announcements with a cost implication before the budget at the end of October.

    There’s plenty to commend about the candour of the chancellor and the prime minister when they ask for patience because a better Britain won’t be built in a day. But after committing too many avoidable own goals, the government could now do with some quick wins.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/sep/28/keir-starmer-no-10-ministers
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,305
    Click the link to read Musk’s explanation for the claim below:

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1840409051357696324

    Very few Americans realize that, if Trump is NOT elected, this will be the last election. Far from being a threat to democracy, he is the only way to save it!
  • Absolute shithousery from England here.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,700
    edited September 29

    theProle said:

    theProle said:

    MaxPB said:

    I think Kemi is unfit to be leader having just read her comments on maternity leave/pay. It's absolutely idiotic, in a country where we have a birth rate lower than the replacement rate we need for families to have an extra child, not have fewer because they can't afford the time off.

    If anything maternity pay and early years childcare funding needs to go up substantially so that parents don't feel as though they can't have 2 kids instead of 1 or decide that 2 is enough and not go for a third one etc...

    I don't know if it plays well with members, perhaps it does because they're all old fuckers who "didn't have that in our day and we raised a family of 17 on a single salary" but this shows she doesn't understand the major demographic issue facing the nation and a big driver of migration in the last 10 years.

    The best fix for larger family sizes is to sort the housing market, so buying a decent house doesn't require both parents to be out at work and the child dumped in childcare from 6 months old.

    Maternity pay is a side-show compared to this.

    Educated women want to use their education.
    I'm not sure I'd assume that. The issue is that in large swathes of the country, house prices mean they don't have a choice.

    I don't want to make people into stay at home mums (or dads) if they actually want to go back to work (although I don't really get why people want to have kids and then spend no time with them). What I really dislike is that we're setting up a society where that is the only option, unless you are stinking rich.
    I’m not sure either! I’ve worked with plenty of degree-holding women who didn’t, apparently ‘need’ to work but who did, but they tended to be older, and therefore to have older children and/or have paid for their houses.
    Or, of course, they were single!
    I'd be interested in what @viewcode says on this exchange and Kemi's comments on how maternity pay has 'gone too far' (my characterisation).

    As I see it that will probably damage Kemi from the point of view of the National Conservatives (aka NatCons, the intellectualised version of part of Mogg's PopCon agenda, one aspect of which @viewcode featured in his recent piece), who have a bee in their bonnet about fertility rates amongst natives from the UK - mirroring to an extent a UK version of the factors behind JD Vance's comments about the existential threat posed by single cat-ladies.

    We perhaps aren't in the 'chained to the kitchen sink' territory that 2nd Wave feminists used to shout about, but is this a push in that direction from Kemi?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314

    Crikey.

    Former deputy prime minister Sir Oliver Dowden has become the most senior ally of Rishi Sunak to be interviewed in the official investigation into betting on the date of the general election, Sky News understands.

    He follows Mr Sunak's former parliamentary aide Craig Williams and former Downing Street chief of staff Liam Booth-Smith in being questioned by the Gambling Commission, the statutory body that regulates betting in the UK.

    Mr Sunak has not yet been interviewed, Sky News understands, though "numerous people" including Conservative Party officials have been.

    The inquiry - launched in June - is set to continue for another three to six months.

    News of Sir Oliver's interview, along with the seizing of "hundreds of documents" from Tory HQ by the commission, has emerged on the day the Conservative Party Conference opened in Birmingham.

    Ironically, the Gambling Commission's head office, on the fourth floor of Victoria Square House, Victoria Square, Birmingham, is just a half-mile, 10-minute walk from the ICC, where the Tory conference is taking place.


    https://news.sky.com/story/former-deputy-pm-oliver-dowden-interviewed-in-election-day-betting-probe-13224498

    How much money is being spent investigating this, vs how much money was actually staked on the election date?

    It shouldn’t take long to work out if anyone put money on a certain date, and then afterwards was in the meeting where they lobbied for that date, which would certainly be a problem.

    It’s possible that people had an idea of when the date would be, from inside information, but it wasn’t the date until the PM actually announced it. That’s no different from a horse trainer giving tips to their friends about which are the fit and which are the lame animals.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231
    Scott_xP said:

    @GavinBarwell
    Today's Conservative Party:

    "Immigration is too high"

    "But our population is ageing, we need immigration"

    "Nah, women need to have more kids"

    "And we should encourage mums to stay at home to look after their kids"

    "Yeah and slash maternity pay"


    @Number10cat
    If Badenoch gets elected as Tory leader every Labour MP is going to have to register it as a gift


    @MrHarryCole
    Kemi camp in full damage control mode now:

    Source; “Infighting and internal conflicts helped take our party to an historic defeat. We need to be better, we need our politics to be better. Kemi obviously supports maternity pay and was making a case for lower regulation - something she always aimed for as business secretary. For other leadership campaigns to be seeking to use selective quotes from an interview to score political hits, shows they’re still wedded to the old politics and simply aren’t serious about getting back to government.”

    Good response from Kemi's team.

    I don’t particularly agree with her about maternity pay, and I am still broadly in favour of Jenrick, but I do detest these infantile 'gotcha' moments when someone departs from the blandest views on something.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,487
    Austria projection from initial results. Freedom party just on top.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8rdygy5888o
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,305
    carnforth said:

    Austria projection from initial results. Freedom party just on top.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8rdygy5888o

    2.1% appear to have voted for the Beer Party.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,888

    Good response from Kemi's team.

    Not really

    She has form. Say something batshit, then when she gets called out, instead of defending what she said accuse others of attacking her right to say it.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,644

    Click the link to read Musk’s explanation for the claim below:

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1840409051357696324

    Very few Americans realize that, if Trump is NOT elected, this will be the last election. Far from being a threat to democracy, he is the only way to save it!

    White South African billionaire has opinion on brown people, the opinion will not surprise you.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314

    carnforth said:

    Austria projection from initial results. Freedom party just on top.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8rdygy5888o

    2.1% appear to have voted for the Beer Party.
    The Party Party?
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,644

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Israel has just killed ANOTHER Hezbollah leader

    War is horrific, but as horrors go this is impressively efficient

    But it also begs the question: why was this chilling accuracy not used against Hamas, why instead did they carpet bomb civilians?

    Because Bibi wants to commit genocide/ethnic cleansing in the occupied territories, if you follow that, he's not interested in a greater Israel.
    Yes, that is my suspicion
    If you look at some of the stuff his cabinet have said publicly, such as the below, you can only imagine what they say/do in private.

    The EU, France and UK have condemned a senior Israeli minister for suggesting it might be “justified and moral” to starve people in Gaza.

    Israel’s finance minister, Bezalel Smotrich, sparked international outrage after he said on Wednesday: “No one in the world will allow us to starve 2 million people, even though it might be justified and moral in order to free the hostages.”

    Separately on Wednesday, Israel’s Channel 12 broadcasted security camera footage that reportedly showed the sexual assault of a Palestinian detainee from Gaza at Sde Teiman military detention camp. Last week, the detention of the soldiers accused of involvement in the alleged abuse sparked violent riots.


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/aug/08/israel-finance-minister-bezalel-smotrich-gaza-starve-2m-people-comments
    I said at the beginning I suspected this of Israel. It’s the only logic behind their behaviour in Gaza - a “final solution” to the Palestinian problem. Just cleanse them entirely: make Gaza uninhabitable and terrify them out of the West Bank

    And if you’re an Israeli looking at October 7 I can see why you might feel that way. The Jewish state cannot tolerate the mere possibility it might happen again - it is existential. AND if you’re going to do this you have to get it done before Iran acquires nukes

    So: this will end either with the elimination of any Palestinian homeland or the destruction of Israel
    Israel can't defeat Hamas by invading and occupying the Palestinian Authority any more than the UK could defeat the IRA by invading and occupying the Republic of Ireland and West Belfast
    Of course they can, if they press their advantages until the enemies surrender unconditionally.

    Just as we pressed our advantages until the Nazis surrendered unconditionally.
    Just as the Americans pressed theirs until the Japanese surrendered unconditionally.
    Just as the Sri Lankans pressed theirs until the Tamil Tigers surrendered unconditionally.

    Unconditional surrender ends wars.
    Ethnic cleansing also ends historic conflicts. Cf Turkey/Greece

    This is what Israel is pursuing. They just can’t say it
    Indeed they can’t.

    The Gaza Strip would make for some first class seaside real estate when redeveloped.
    Pretty much everyone with coastline in the Middle East is now planning to copy Dubai and build hotels on the beaches.

    Tourism should be a large attraction for the whole region, especially as it’s mostly off-season for European visitors, somewhere to find sun in winter.
    If it dropped the violence and distaste for alcohol and women then the Middle East would be beautifully situated to make a fortune from tourism.

    Sharm el-Sheikh was itself of course developed by Israel while it occupied the land, and it became a very successful tourist area which it remains to this day after Egypt accepted peace with Israel.

    Egypt accepting it had lost the war ended the cycle of violence with Israel and has led to much more prosperity since, even if not great amounts of freedom. Far better than what the Palestinians have under Hamas.
    Which in turn is because your favourite country thinks it has the right to murder Palestinians.
  • Sandpit said:

    Crikey.

    Former deputy prime minister Sir Oliver Dowden has become the most senior ally of Rishi Sunak to be interviewed in the official investigation into betting on the date of the general election, Sky News understands.

    He follows Mr Sunak's former parliamentary aide Craig Williams and former Downing Street chief of staff Liam Booth-Smith in being questioned by the Gambling Commission, the statutory body that regulates betting in the UK.

    Mr Sunak has not yet been interviewed, Sky News understands, though "numerous people" including Conservative Party officials have been.

    The inquiry - launched in June - is set to continue for another three to six months.

    News of Sir Oliver's interview, along with the seizing of "hundreds of documents" from Tory HQ by the commission, has emerged on the day the Conservative Party Conference opened in Birmingham.

    Ironically, the Gambling Commission's head office, on the fourth floor of Victoria Square House, Victoria Square, Birmingham, is just a half-mile, 10-minute walk from the ICC, where the Tory conference is taking place.


    https://news.sky.com/story/former-deputy-pm-oliver-dowden-interviewed-in-election-day-betting-probe-13224498

    How much money is being spent investigating this, vs how much money was actually staked on the election date?

    It shouldn’t take long to work out if anyone put money on a certain date, and then afterwards was in the meeting where they lobbied for that date, which would certainly be a problem.

    It’s possible that people had an idea of when the date would be, from inside information, but it wasn’t the date until the PM actually announced it. That’s no different from a horse trainer giving tips to their friends about which are the fit and which are the lame animals.
    I suspect it is like Operation Branchform which branched out to other things following the investigation of the original allegations.

    As OGH said to me earlier on this week, it wouldn't shock him to know these people were betting on other things given how much of PB's traffic comes from Westminster IP addresses.

    There's a very fine line on the ethics of betting on private/embargoed polling.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    Six more. They’re going to get the runs even if it doesn’t rain. Nearly half way there in 20 overs with only two wickets down.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,700
    edited September 29
    Sandpit said:

    Crikey.

    Former deputy prime minister Sir Oliver Dowden has become the most senior ally of Rishi Sunak to be interviewed in the official investigation into betting on the date of the general election, Sky News understands.

    He follows Mr Sunak's former parliamentary aide Craig Williams and former Downing Street chief of staff Liam Booth-Smith in being questioned by the Gambling Commission, the statutory body that regulates betting in the UK.

    Mr Sunak has not yet been interviewed, Sky News understands, though "numerous people" including Conservative Party officials have been.

    The inquiry - launched in June - is set to continue for another three to six months.

    News of Sir Oliver's interview, along with the seizing of "hundreds of documents" from Tory HQ by the commission, has emerged on the day the Conservative Party Conference opened in Birmingham.

    Ironically, the Gambling Commission's head office, on the fourth floor of Victoria Square House, Victoria Square, Birmingham, is just a half-mile, 10-minute walk from the ICC, where the Tory conference is taking place.


    https://news.sky.com/story/former-deputy-pm-oliver-dowden-interviewed-in-election-day-betting-probe-13224498

    How much money is being spent investigating this, vs how much money was actually staked on the election date?

    It shouldn’t take long to work out if anyone put money on a certain date, and then afterwards was in the meeting where they lobbied for that date, which would certainly be a problem.

    It’s possible that people had an idea of when the date would be, from inside information, but it wasn’t the date until the PM actually announced it. That’s no different from a horse trainer giving tips to their friends about which are the fit and which are the lame animals.
    Various Consertive-tinged media going for Labour's Fabulous Four weakens the possibility of a De Minimus argument here, perhaps.

    Do Reform have clean hands holding their dog whistle, the world wonders?
  • Sandpit said:

    Six more. They’re going to get the runs even if it doesn’t rain. Nearly half way there in 20 overs with only two wickets down.

    I've switched over to the banter clubs match, Manchester United v Spurs.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,668

    carnforth said:

    Austria projection from initial results. Freedom party just on top.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8rdygy5888o

    2.1% appear to have voted for the Beer Party.
    Beer or Freedom. Why do you have to choose?
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,487

    carnforth said:

    Austria projection from initial results. Freedom party just on top.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8rdygy5888o

    2.1% appear to have voted for the Beer Party.
    Apparently it's a thing:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_BIER_party

    "Beer Parties exist throughout the world, especially in Eastern Europe. Already in the last 1990 East German general election, the electoral list of the "German Beer Drinkers' Union" (Deutsche Biertrinker Union) had been presented in the constituency of Rostock, which had only obtained 2,534 votes and no elected persons, in addition to a handful of votes in five other local elections in the German federal states. Another well-known example was the Polish Beer-Lovers' Party, which started as a prank and won 2.97% of the vote and 16 seats in the Sejm after Poland's 1991 parliamentary elections, even joining the government of Hanna Suchocka with its own minister.[9] Such parties are satirical as a general rule, though they can develop more serious platforms, as was the case for the Polish Beer-Lover's Party."
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314

    Sandpit said:

    Crikey.

    Former deputy prime minister Sir Oliver Dowden has become the most senior ally of Rishi Sunak to be interviewed in the official investigation into betting on the date of the general election, Sky News understands.

    He follows Mr Sunak's former parliamentary aide Craig Williams and former Downing Street chief of staff Liam Booth-Smith in being questioned by the Gambling Commission, the statutory body that regulates betting in the UK.

    Mr Sunak has not yet been interviewed, Sky News understands, though "numerous people" including Conservative Party officials have been.

    The inquiry - launched in June - is set to continue for another three to six months.

    News of Sir Oliver's interview, along with the seizing of "hundreds of documents" from Tory HQ by the commission, has emerged on the day the Conservative Party Conference opened in Birmingham.

    Ironically, the Gambling Commission's head office, on the fourth floor of Victoria Square House, Victoria Square, Birmingham, is just a half-mile, 10-minute walk from the ICC, where the Tory conference is taking place.


    https://news.sky.com/story/former-deputy-pm-oliver-dowden-interviewed-in-election-day-betting-probe-13224498

    How much money is being spent investigating this, vs how much money was actually staked on the election date?

    It shouldn’t take long to work out if anyone put money on a certain date, and then afterwards was in the meeting where they lobbied for that date, which would certainly be a problem.

    It’s possible that people had an idea of when the date would be, from inside information, but it wasn’t the date until the PM actually announced it. That’s no different from a horse trainer giving tips to their friends about which are the fit and which are the lame animals.
    I suspect it is like Operation Branchform which branched out to other things following the investigation of the original allegations.

    As OGH said to me earlier on this week, it wouldn't shock him to know these people were betting on other things given how much of PB's traffic comes from Westminster IP addresses.

    There's a very fine line on the ethics of betting on private/embargoed polling.
    That’s not a fine line at all, I thought you did ethics for a living?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,472
    Sandpit said:

    carnforth said:

    Austria projection from initial results. Freedom party just on top.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8rdygy5888o

    2.1% appear to have voted for the Beer Party.
    The Party Party?
    Best film of the Eighties!

    https://youtu.be/cHQ0BNZPVTM?feature=shared
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,700
    edited September 29

    Scott_xP said:

    @GavinBarwell
    Today's Conservative Party:

    "Immigration is too high"

    "But our population is ageing, we need immigration"

    "Nah, women need to have more kids"

    "And we should encourage mums to stay at home to look after their kids"

    "Yeah and slash maternity pay"


    @Number10cat
    If Badenoch gets elected as Tory leader every Labour MP is going to have to register it as a gift


    @MrHarryCole
    Kemi camp in full damage control mode now:

    Source; “Infighting and internal conflicts helped take our party to an historic defeat. We need to be better, we need our politics to be better. Kemi obviously supports maternity pay and was making a case for lower regulation - something she always aimed for as business secretary. For other leadership campaigns to be seeking to use selective quotes from an interview to score political hits, shows they’re still wedded to the old politics and simply aren’t serious about getting back to government.”

    Good response from Kemi's team.

    I don’t particularly agree with her about maternity pay, and I am still broadly in favour of Jenrick, but I do detest these infantile 'gotcha' moments when someone departs from the blandest views on something.
    Serious question - does Jenrick identify as a Nat Con? I've been surprised by some who do, who I would (my opinion) expect to know better than to tangle up religion with their political identity in the UK. Ultimately imo it won't be effective here for cultural reasons.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    edited September 29

    Sandpit said:

    Six more. They’re going to get the runs even if it doesn’t rain. Nearly half way there in 20 overs with only two wickets down.

    I've switched over to the banter clubs match, Manchester United v Spurs.
    My pub has just switched the big screen with the sound from the cricket to the football.

    Right on time, becuase there comes the rain in Bristol.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,226
    carnforth said:

    Austria projection from initial results. Freedom party just on top.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8rdygy5888o

    Far right Freedom party looks to have come first in Austria yes but the centre right OVP may prefer coalition with the centre left SPO who are projected to come 3rd than with them
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231
    Scott_xP said:

    Good response from Kemi's team.

    Not really

    She has form. Say something batshit, then when she gets called out, instead of defending what she said accuse others of attacking her right to say it.
    None of that means it's not a good response.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    Good start from Spurs!
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231
    MattW said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @GavinBarwell
    Today's Conservative Party:

    "Immigration is too high"

    "But our population is ageing, we need immigration"

    "Nah, women need to have more kids"

    "And we should encourage mums to stay at home to look after their kids"

    "Yeah and slash maternity pay"


    @Number10cat
    If Badenoch gets elected as Tory leader every Labour MP is going to have to register it as a gift


    @MrHarryCole
    Kemi camp in full damage control mode now:

    Source; “Infighting and internal conflicts helped take our party to an historic defeat. We need to be better, we need our politics to be better. Kemi obviously supports maternity pay and was making a case for lower regulation - something she always aimed for as business secretary. For other leadership campaigns to be seeking to use selective quotes from an interview to score political hits, shows they’re still wedded to the old politics and simply aren’t serious about getting back to government.”

    Good response from Kemi's team.

    I don’t particularly agree with her about maternity pay, and I am still broadly in favour of Jenrick, but I do detest these infantile 'gotcha' moments when someone departs from the blandest views on something.
    Serious question - does Jenrick identify as a Nat Con? I've been surprised by some who do, who I would (my opinion) expect to know better than to tangle up religion with their political identity in the UK. Ultimately imo it won't be effective here for cultural reasons.
    If I knew what you meant by that definition, particularly with reference to religion, then I could hazard a guess.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,226
    MattW said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @GavinBarwell
    Today's Conservative Party:

    "Immigration is too high"

    "But our population is ageing, we need immigration"

    "Nah, women need to have more kids"

    "And we should encourage mums to stay at home to look after their kids"

    "Yeah and slash maternity pay"


    @Number10cat
    If Badenoch gets elected as Tory leader every Labour MP is going to have to register it as a gift


    @MrHarryCole
    Kemi camp in full damage control mode now:

    Source; “Infighting and internal conflicts helped take our party to an historic defeat. We need to be better, we need our politics to be better. Kemi obviously supports maternity pay and was making a case for lower regulation - something she always aimed for as business secretary. For other leadership campaigns to be seeking to use selective quotes from an interview to score political hits, shows they’re still wedded to the old politics and simply aren’t serious about getting back to government.”

    Good response from Kemi's team.

    I don’t particularly agree with her about maternity pay, and I am still broadly in favour of Jenrick, but I do detest these infantile 'gotcha' moments when someone departs from the blandest views on something.
    Serious question - does Jenrick identify as a Nat Con? I've been surprised by some who do, who I would (my opinion) expect to know better than to tangle up religion with their political identity in the UK. Ultimately imo it won't be effective here for cultural reasons.
    Jenrick's wife is Jewish and they are bringing up their children in that faith
  • Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Crikey.

    Former deputy prime minister Sir Oliver Dowden has become the most senior ally of Rishi Sunak to be interviewed in the official investigation into betting on the date of the general election, Sky News understands.

    He follows Mr Sunak's former parliamentary aide Craig Williams and former Downing Street chief of staff Liam Booth-Smith in being questioned by the Gambling Commission, the statutory body that regulates betting in the UK.

    Mr Sunak has not yet been interviewed, Sky News understands, though "numerous people" including Conservative Party officials have been.

    The inquiry - launched in June - is set to continue for another three to six months.

    News of Sir Oliver's interview, along with the seizing of "hundreds of documents" from Tory HQ by the commission, has emerged on the day the Conservative Party Conference opened in Birmingham.

    Ironically, the Gambling Commission's head office, on the fourth floor of Victoria Square House, Victoria Square, Birmingham, is just a half-mile, 10-minute walk from the ICC, where the Tory conference is taking place.


    https://news.sky.com/story/former-deputy-pm-oliver-dowden-interviewed-in-election-day-betting-probe-13224498

    How much money is being spent investigating this, vs how much money was actually staked on the election date?

    It shouldn’t take long to work out if anyone put money on a certain date, and then afterwards was in the meeting where they lobbied for that date, which would certainly be a problem.

    It’s possible that people had an idea of when the date would be, from inside information, but it wasn’t the date until the PM actually announced it. That’s no different from a horse trainer giving tips to their friends about which are the fit and which are the lame animals.
    I suspect it is like Operation Branchform which branched out to other things following the investigation of the original allegations.

    As OGH said to me earlier on this week, it wouldn't shock him to know these people were betting on other things given how much of PB's traffic comes from Westminster IP addresses.

    There's a very fine line on the ethics of betting on private/embargoed polling.
    That’s not a fine line at all, I thought you did ethics for a living?
    MPs come under the aegis of misconduct in a public office, it's a fine line for them.

    For the record I have never bet on an embargoed poll.

    It has cost me money, once I was planning on putting more money on the Tories as the largest party at GE2015 as I was about to do so an embargoed poll from ComRes dropped showing the Tories were doing better in the marginals.

    Never been a fan of ComRes since then.

    Something similar happened during the Indyref.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,297
    edited September 29
    Okay, I love Tom Tugendhat even more.

    I've only discovered this story from 2022

    Security minister and Tory MP Tom Tugendhat has denied using his phone while driving his car.

    He was spotted in Wandsworth High Street on 4 April by Met Police officer PC Joseph Robson, who pulled him over.

    In a written guilty plea, the Tonbridge and Malling MP said he was holding the phone but not using it and had later taken a driving course.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-63573882
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    So who controls the rain in Bristol, which arrived four balls after the 20-over minimum for a match to be declared? Is there an Australian cloud-seeding plane up there?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,668
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Israel has just killed ANOTHER Hezbollah leader

    War is horrific, but as horrors go this is impressively efficient

    But it also begs the question: why was this chilling accuracy not used against Hamas, why instead did they carpet bomb civilians?

    Because Bibi wants to commit genocide/ethnic cleansing in the occupied territories, if you follow that, he's not interested in a greater Israel.
    Yes, that is my suspicion
    If you look at some of the stuff his cabinet have said publicly, such as the below, you can only imagine what they say/do in private.

    The EU, France and UK have condemned a senior Israeli minister for suggesting it might be “justified and moral” to starve people in Gaza.

    Israel’s finance minister, Bezalel Smotrich, sparked international outrage after he said on Wednesday: “No one in the world will allow us to starve 2 million people, even though it might be justified and moral in order to free the hostages.”

    Separately on Wednesday, Israel’s Channel 12 broadcasted security camera footage that reportedly showed the sexual assault of a Palestinian detainee from Gaza at Sde Teiman military detention camp. Last week, the detention of the soldiers accused of involvement in the alleged abuse sparked violent riots.


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/aug/08/israel-finance-minister-bezalel-smotrich-gaza-starve-2m-people-comments
    I said at the beginning I suspected this of Israel. It’s the only logic behind their behaviour in Gaza - a “final solution” to the Palestinian problem. Just cleanse them entirely: make Gaza uninhabitable and terrify them out of the West Bank

    And if you’re an Israeli looking at October 7 I can see why you might feel that way. The Jewish state cannot tolerate the mere possibility it might happen again - it is existential. AND if you’re going to do this you have to get it done before Iran acquires nukes

    So: this will end either with the elimination of any Palestinian homeland or the destruction of Israel
    Israel can't defeat Hamas by invading and occupying the Palestinian Authority any more than the UK could defeat the IRA by invading and occupying the Republic of Ireland and West Belfast
    Of course they can, if they press their advantages until the enemies surrender unconditionally.

    Just as we pressed our advantages until the Nazis surrendered unconditionally.
    Just as the Americans pressed theirs until the Japanese surrendered unconditionally.
    Just as the Sri Lankans pressed theirs until the Tamil Tigers surrendered unconditionally.

    Unconditional surrender ends wars.
    Ethnic cleansing also ends historic conflicts. Cf Turkey/Greece

    This is what Israel is pursuing. They just can’t say it
    Indeed they can’t.

    The Gaza Strip would make for some first class seaside real estate when redeveloped.
    Pretty much everyone with coastline in the Middle East is now planning to copy Dubai and build hotels on the beaches.

    Tourism should be a large attraction for the whole region, especially as it’s mostly off-season for European visitors, somewhere to find sun in winter.
    If it dropped the violence and distaste for alcohol and women then the Middle East would be beautifully situated to make a fortune from tourism.

    Sharm el-Sheikh was itself of course developed by Israel while it occupied the land, and it became a very successful tourist area which it remains to this day after Egypt accepted peace with Israel.

    Egypt accepting it had lost the war ended the cycle of violence with Israel and has led to much more prosperity since, even if not great amounts of freedom. Far better than what the Palestinians have under Hamas.
    Sharm-el-Sheikh is lovely, a good example of what they could all be doing. If you stop the war, you start attracting tourists.

    Even the Saudis are preparing to relax rules on alcohol and women’s dress in their new resort city on the Red Sea. It’ll be a ‘closed city’ with no locals there. Just across the sea from Sharm, as it happens.
    NARRATOR: Sharm-el-Sheikh is not "lovely", unless you you enjoy sterile, dessicated resort-cities inexplicably plonked in hostile desert by a windy coast
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Israel has just killed ANOTHER Hezbollah leader

    War is horrific, but as horrors go this is impressively efficient

    But it also begs the question: why was this chilling accuracy not used against Hamas, why instead did they carpet bomb civilians?

    Because Bibi wants to commit genocide/ethnic cleansing in the occupied territories, if you follow that, he's not interested in a greater Israel.
    Yes, that is my suspicion
    If you look at some of the stuff his cabinet have said publicly, such as the below, you can only imagine what they say/do in private.

    The EU, France and UK have condemned a senior Israeli minister for suggesting it might be “justified and moral” to starve people in Gaza.

    Israel’s finance minister, Bezalel Smotrich, sparked international outrage after he said on Wednesday: “No one in the world will allow us to starve 2 million people, even though it might be justified and moral in order to free the hostages.”

    Separately on Wednesday, Israel’s Channel 12 broadcasted security camera footage that reportedly showed the sexual assault of a Palestinian detainee from Gaza at Sde Teiman military detention camp. Last week, the detention of the soldiers accused of involvement in the alleged abuse sparked violent riots.


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/aug/08/israel-finance-minister-bezalel-smotrich-gaza-starve-2m-people-comments
    I said at the beginning I suspected this of Israel. It’s the only logic behind their behaviour in Gaza - a “final solution” to the Palestinian problem. Just cleanse them entirely: make Gaza uninhabitable and terrify them out of the West Bank

    And if you’re an Israeli looking at October 7 I can see why you might feel that way. The Jewish state cannot tolerate the mere possibility it might happen again - it is existential. AND if you’re going to do this you have to get it done before Iran acquires nukes

    So: this will end either with the elimination of any Palestinian homeland or the destruction of Israel
    Israel can't defeat Hamas by invading and occupying the Palestinian Authority any more than the UK could defeat the IRA by invading and occupying the Republic of Ireland and West Belfast
    Of course they can, if they press their advantages until the enemies surrender unconditionally.

    Just as we pressed our advantages until the Nazis surrendered unconditionally.
    Just as the Americans pressed theirs until the Japanese surrendered unconditionally.
    Just as the Sri Lankans pressed theirs until the Tamil Tigers surrendered unconditionally.

    Unconditional surrender ends wars.
    Ethnic cleansing also ends historic conflicts. Cf Turkey/Greece

    This is what Israel is pursuing. They just can’t say it
    Indeed they can’t.

    The Gaza Strip would make for some first class seaside real estate when redeveloped.
    Pretty much everyone with coastline in the Middle East is now planning to copy Dubai and build hotels on the beaches.

    Tourism should be a large attraction for the whole region, especially as it’s mostly off-season for European visitors, somewhere to find sun in winter.
    If it dropped the violence and distaste for alcohol and women then the Middle East would be beautifully situated to make a fortune from tourism.

    Sharm el-Sheikh was itself of course developed by Israel while it occupied the land, and it became a very successful tourist area which it remains to this day after Egypt accepted peace with Israel.

    Egypt accepting it had lost the war ended the cycle of violence with Israel and has led to much more prosperity since, even if not great amounts of freedom. Far better than what the Palestinians have under Hamas.
    Sharm-el-Sheikh is lovely, a good example of what they could all be doing. If you stop the war, you start attracting tourists.

    Even the Saudis are preparing to relax rules on alcohol and women’s dress in their new resort city on the Red Sea. It’ll be a ‘closed city’ with no locals there. Just across the sea from Sharm, as it happens.
    NARRATOR: Sharm-el-Sheikh is not "lovely", unless you you enjoy sterile, dessicated resort-cities inexplicably plonked in hostile desert by a windy coast
    If all you want to do is lie on the beach for a week in the middle of British winter…

    Remember that most Brits have to experience winter, rather than decamp to the brothels of Bangkok for months on end.
  • HYUFD said:

    carnforth said:

    Austria projection from initial results. Freedom party just on top.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8rdygy5888o

    Far right Freedom party looks to have come first in Austria yes but the centre right OVP may prefer coalition with the centre left SPO who are projected to come 3rd than with them
    Also yet another dismal failure of the strategy of mainstream centre-right parties co-opting language of populist right. Few have been as accommodating as the ÖVP have been of the FPÖ, yet this is the end result (as it has been pretty much everywhere).

    https://bsky.app/profile/dylandifford.bsky.social/post/3l5ciuifkg22h
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,226

    Okay, I love Tom Tugendhat even more.

    I've only discovered this story from 2022

    Security minister and Tory MP Tom Tugendhat has denied using his phone while driving his car.

    He was spotted in Wandsworth High Street on 4 April by Met Police officer PC Joseph Robson, who pulled him over.

    In a written guilty plea, the Tonbridge and Malling MP said he was holding the phone but not using it and had later taken a driving course.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-63573882

    Both Tugendhat and Jenrick received driving bans a year apart
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/nov/17/security-minister-tom-tugendhat-given-six-month-driving-ban
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/apr/04/robert-jenrick-banned-from-driving-for-six-months-for-speeding
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,800
    HYUFD said:

    carnforth said:

    Austria projection from initial results. Freedom party just on top.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8rdygy5888o

    Far right Freedom party looks to have come first in Austria yes but the centre right OVP may prefer coalition with the centre left SPO who are projected to come 3rd than with them
    The OVP and SPO combined are right on the cusp of a Parliamentary majority (92 in the Nationalrat). Current projection has them on 92 with the Freedom Party on 57, NEOS on 17 and the Greens on 17. There's always the issue of rounding in proportional elections so it may be 183 or 184 seats in the Nationalrat.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,668
    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Israel has just killed ANOTHER Hezbollah leader

    War is horrific, but as horrors go this is impressively efficient

    But it also begs the question: why was this chilling accuracy not used against Hamas, why instead did they carpet bomb civilians?

    Because Bibi wants to commit genocide/ethnic cleansing in the occupied territories, if you follow that, he's not interested in a greater Israel.
    Yes, that is my suspicion
    If you look at some of the stuff his cabinet have said publicly, such as the below, you can only imagine what they say/do in private.

    The EU, France and UK have condemned a senior Israeli minister for suggesting it might be “justified and moral” to starve people in Gaza.

    Israel’s finance minister, Bezalel Smotrich, sparked international outrage after he said on Wednesday: “No one in the world will allow us to starve 2 million people, even though it might be justified and moral in order to free the hostages.”

    Separately on Wednesday, Israel’s Channel 12 broadcasted security camera footage that reportedly showed the sexual assault of a Palestinian detainee from Gaza at Sde Teiman military detention camp. Last week, the detention of the soldiers accused of involvement in the alleged abuse sparked violent riots.


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/aug/08/israel-finance-minister-bezalel-smotrich-gaza-starve-2m-people-comments
    I said at the beginning I suspected this of Israel. It’s the only logic behind their behaviour in Gaza - a “final solution” to the Palestinian problem. Just cleanse them entirely: make Gaza uninhabitable and terrify them out of the West Bank

    And if you’re an Israeli looking at October 7 I can see why you might feel that way. The Jewish state cannot tolerate the mere possibility it might happen again - it is existential. AND if you’re going to do this you have to get it done before Iran acquires nukes

    So: this will end either with the elimination of any Palestinian homeland or the destruction of Israel
    Israel can't defeat Hamas by invading and occupying the Palestinian Authority any more than the UK could defeat the IRA by invading and occupying the Republic of Ireland and West Belfast
    Of course they can, if they press their advantages until the enemies surrender unconditionally.

    Just as we pressed our advantages until the Nazis surrendered unconditionally.
    Just as the Americans pressed theirs until the Japanese surrendered unconditionally.
    Just as the Sri Lankans pressed theirs until the Tamil Tigers surrendered unconditionally.

    Unconditional surrender ends wars.
    Ethnic cleansing also ends historic conflicts. Cf Turkey/Greece

    This is what Israel is pursuing. They just can’t say it
    Indeed they can’t.

    The Gaza Strip would make for some first class seaside real estate when redeveloped.
    Pretty much everyone with coastline in the Middle East is now planning to copy Dubai and build hotels on the beaches.

    Tourism should be a large attraction for the whole region, especially as it’s mostly off-season for European visitors, somewhere to find sun in winter.
    If it dropped the violence and distaste for alcohol and women then the Middle East would be beautifully situated to make a fortune from tourism.

    Sharm el-Sheikh was itself of course developed by Israel while it occupied the land, and it became a very successful tourist area which it remains to this day after Egypt accepted peace with Israel.

    Egypt accepting it had lost the war ended the cycle of violence with Israel and has led to much more prosperity since, even if not great amounts of freedom. Far better than what the Palestinians have under Hamas.
    Sharm-el-Sheikh is lovely, a good example of what they could all be doing. If you stop the war, you start attracting tourists.

    Even the Saudis are preparing to relax rules on alcohol and women’s dress in their new resort city on the Red Sea. It’ll be a ‘closed city’ with no locals there. Just across the sea from Sharm, as it happens.
    NARRATOR: Sharm-el-Sheikh is not "lovely", unless you you enjoy sterile, dessicated resort-cities inexplicably plonked in hostile desert by a windy coast
    If all you want to do is lie on the beach for a week in the middle of British winter…

    Remember that most Brits have to experience winter, rather than decamp to the brothels of Bangkok for months on end.
    What fools they are

    I can barely tolerate September in the New British Climate (TM)

    I just walked out to buy some food and a wintry wind was gusting down Parkway and everyone was hunched in winter coats. "Feels like" about 9C? This is Sept 29
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,528

    MaxPB said:

    I think Kemi is unfit to be leader having just read her comments on maternity leave/pay. It's absolutely idiotic, in a country where we have a birth rate lower than the replacement rate we need for families to have an extra child, not have fewer because they can't afford the time off.

    If anything maternity pay and early years childcare funding needs to go up substantially so that parents don't feel as though they can't have 2 kids instead of 1 or decide that 2 is enough and not go for a third one etc...

    I don't know if it plays well with members, perhaps it does because they're all old fuckers who "didn't have that in our day and we raised a family of 17 on a single salary" but this shows she doesn't understand the major demographic issue facing the nation and a big driver of migration in the last 10 years.

    Why are you being so dramatic about it - she has one opinion that you don't agree with and she is 'unfit to be leader'? Do you expect to agree with every opinion?
    It's not dramatic, it shows she's got poor judgement on one of the biggest issues of our era and for my generation and the one that follows.
  • Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Israel has just killed ANOTHER Hezbollah leader

    War is horrific, but as horrors go this is impressively efficient

    But it also begs the question: why was this chilling accuracy not used against Hamas, why instead did they carpet bomb civilians?

    Because Bibi wants to commit genocide/ethnic cleansing in the occupied territories, if you follow that, he's not interested in a greater Israel.
    Yes, that is my suspicion
    If you look at some of the stuff his cabinet have said publicly, such as the below, you can only imagine what they say/do in private.

    The EU, France and UK have condemned a senior Israeli minister for suggesting it might be “justified and moral” to starve people in Gaza.

    Israel’s finance minister, Bezalel Smotrich, sparked international outrage after he said on Wednesday: “No one in the world will allow us to starve 2 million people, even though it might be justified and moral in order to free the hostages.”

    Separately on Wednesday, Israel’s Channel 12 broadcasted security camera footage that reportedly showed the sexual assault of a Palestinian detainee from Gaza at Sde Teiman military detention camp. Last week, the detention of the soldiers accused of involvement in the alleged abuse sparked violent riots.


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/aug/08/israel-finance-minister-bezalel-smotrich-gaza-starve-2m-people-comments
    I said at the beginning I suspected this of Israel. It’s the only logic behind their behaviour in Gaza - a “final solution” to the Palestinian problem. Just cleanse them entirely: make Gaza uninhabitable and terrify them out of the West Bank

    And if you’re an Israeli looking at October 7 I can see why you might feel that way. The Jewish state cannot tolerate the mere possibility it might happen again - it is existential. AND if you’re going to do this you have to get it done before Iran acquires nukes

    So: this will end either with the elimination of any Palestinian homeland or the destruction of Israel
    Israel can't defeat Hamas by invading and occupying the Palestinian Authority any more than the UK could defeat the IRA by invading and occupying the Republic of Ireland and West Belfast
    Of course they can, if they press their advantages until the enemies surrender unconditionally.

    Just as we pressed our advantages until the Nazis surrendered unconditionally.
    Just as the Americans pressed theirs until the Japanese surrendered unconditionally.
    Just as the Sri Lankans pressed theirs until the Tamil Tigers surrendered unconditionally.

    Unconditional surrender ends wars.
    Ethnic cleansing also ends historic conflicts. Cf Turkey/Greece

    This is what Israel is pursuing. They just can’t say it
    Indeed they can’t.

    The Gaza Strip would make for some first class seaside real estate when redeveloped.
    Pretty much everyone with coastline in the Middle East is now planning to copy Dubai and build hotels on the beaches.

    Tourism should be a large attraction for the whole region, especially as it’s mostly off-season for European visitors, somewhere to find sun in winter.
    If it dropped the violence and distaste for alcohol and women then the Middle East would be beautifully situated to make a fortune from tourism.

    Sharm el-Sheikh was itself of course developed by Israel while it occupied the land, and it became a very successful tourist area which it remains to this day after Egypt accepted peace with Israel.

    Egypt accepting it had lost the war ended the cycle of violence with Israel and has led to much more prosperity since, even if not great amounts of freedom. Far better than what the Palestinians have under Hamas.
    Sharm-el-Sheikh is lovely, a good example of what they could all be doing. If you stop the war, you start attracting tourists.

    Even the Saudis are preparing to relax rules on alcohol and women’s dress in their new resort city on the Red Sea. It’ll be a ‘closed city’ with no locals there. Just across the sea from Sharm, as it happens.
    NARRATOR: Sharm-el-Sheikh is not "lovely", unless you you enjoy sterile, dessicated resort-cities inexplicably plonked in hostile desert by a windy coast
    If all you want to do is lie on the beach for a week in the middle of British winter…

    Remember that most Brits have to experience winter, rather than decamp to the brothels of Bangkok for months on end.
    What fools they are

    I can barely tolerate September in the New British Climate (TM)

    I just walked out to buy some food and a wintry wind was gusting down Parkway and everyone was hunched in winter coats. "Feels like" about 9C? This is Sept 29
    The cold weather is God's reminder to burn more Catholics at the stake.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231
    edited September 29
    From the summary of Laura K's programme, here's the key difference between Jenrick and Kemi:

    Jenrick says he'd introduce a legally binding cap on migration in the tens of thousands "or lower"

    Badenoch says some people have brought views that "have no place here" - and also says some cultures are less valid than others

    Both are expressing an immigration-skeptic viewpoint. But Kemi just says something fruity, cultural, and potentially annoying to the sensitive, about immigration. She says nothing about what she would do - what policies she would put in place to support her (perhaps valid) views. Jenrick - what do we need to do? Get net migration below 100,000. How would you do it? Legally-binding migration cap. Now, it may be bollocks, as bollocks as Boris' manifesto, but at least he has committed, so it will be exposed as a u-turn if abandoned. Kemi has given nothing except some punchy commentary. That's a Spectator writer, not a PM.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,583
    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Israel has just killed ANOTHER Hezbollah leader

    War is horrific, but as horrors go this is impressively efficient

    But it also begs the question: why was this chilling accuracy not used against Hamas, why instead did they carpet bomb civilians?

    Because Bibi wants to commit genocide/ethnic cleansing in the occupied territories, if you follow that, he's not interested in a greater Israel.
    Yes, that is my suspicion
    If you look at some of the stuff his cabinet have said publicly, such as the below, you can only imagine what they say/do in private.

    The EU, France and UK have condemned a senior Israeli minister for suggesting it might be “justified and moral” to starve people in Gaza.

    Israel’s finance minister, Bezalel Smotrich, sparked international outrage after he said on Wednesday: “No one in the world will allow us to starve 2 million people, even though it might be justified and moral in order to free the hostages.”

    Separately on Wednesday, Israel’s Channel 12 broadcasted security camera footage that reportedly showed the sexual assault of a Palestinian detainee from Gaza at Sde Teiman military detention camp. Last week, the detention of the soldiers accused of involvement in the alleged abuse sparked violent riots.


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/aug/08/israel-finance-minister-bezalel-smotrich-gaza-starve-2m-people-comments
    I said at the beginning I suspected this of Israel. It’s the only logic behind their behaviour in Gaza - a “final solution” to the Palestinian problem. Just cleanse them entirely: make Gaza uninhabitable and terrify them out of the West Bank

    And if you’re an Israeli looking at October 7 I can see why you might feel that way. The Jewish state cannot tolerate the mere possibility it might happen again - it is existential. AND if you’re going to do this you have to get it done before Iran acquires nukes

    So: this will end either with the elimination of any Palestinian homeland or the destruction of Israel
    Israel can't defeat Hamas by invading and occupying the Palestinian Authority any more than the UK could defeat the IRA by invading and occupying the Republic of Ireland and West Belfast
    Of course they can, if they press their advantages until the enemies surrender unconditionally.

    Just as we pressed our advantages until the Nazis surrendered unconditionally.
    Just as the Americans pressed theirs until the Japanese surrendered unconditionally.
    Just as the Sri Lankans pressed theirs until the Tamil Tigers surrendered unconditionally.

    Unconditional surrender ends wars.
    Ethnic cleansing also ends historic conflicts. Cf Turkey/Greece

    This is what Israel is pursuing. They just can’t say it
    Indeed they can’t.

    The Gaza Strip would make for some first class seaside real estate when redeveloped.
    Pretty much everyone with coastline in the Middle East is now planning to copy Dubai and build hotels on the beaches.

    Tourism should be a large attraction for the whole region, especially as it’s mostly off-season for European visitors, somewhere to find sun in winter.
    If it dropped the violence and distaste for alcohol and women then the Middle East would be beautifully situated to make a fortune from tourism.

    Sharm el-Sheikh was itself of course developed by Israel while it occupied the land, and it became a very successful tourist area which it remains to this day after Egypt accepted peace with Israel.

    Egypt accepting it had lost the war ended the cycle of violence with Israel and has led to much more prosperity since, even if not great amounts of freedom. Far better than what the Palestinians have under Hamas.
    Sharm-el-Sheikh is lovely, a good example of what they could all be doing. If you stop the war, you start attracting tourists.

    Even the Saudis are preparing to relax rules on alcohol and women’s dress in their new resort city on the Red Sea. It’ll be a ‘closed city’ with no locals there. Just across the sea from Sharm, as it happens.
    NARRATOR: Sharm-el-Sheikh is not "lovely", unless you you enjoy sterile, dessicated resort-cities inexplicably plonked in hostile desert by a windy coast
    If all you want to do is lie on the beach for a week in the middle of British winter…

    Remember that most Brits have to experience winter, rather than decamp to the brothels of Bangkok for months on end.
    What fools they are

    I can barely tolerate September in the New British Climate (TM)

    I just walked out to buy some food and a wintry wind was gusting down Parkway and everyone was hunched in winter coats. "Feels like" about 9C? This is Sept 29
    Barely coat weather. Very much enjoying the greens turning to golds and anticipating a lovely Autumn here.
    In a world in which school holidays were not an issue, I wouldn't mind missing the British January. But I don't think the Middle East would ever come top of the list, or even seem preferable to Britain, climatically.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,668

    HYUFD said:

    carnforth said:

    Austria projection from initial results. Freedom party just on top.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8rdygy5888o

    Far right Freedom party looks to have come first in Austria yes but the centre right OVP may prefer coalition with the centre left SPO who are projected to come 3rd than with them
    Also yet another dismal failure of the strategy of mainstream centre-right parties co-opting language of populist right. Few have been as accommodating as the ÖVP have been of the FPÖ, yet this is the end result (as it has been pretty much everywhere).

    https://bsky.app/profile/dylandifford.bsky.social/post/3l5ciuifkg22h
    That's bollocks. The Danish Social Democrats have done very well by adopting the immigration/asylum policies of the hard right

    Denmark literally bulldozes ethnic ghettoes:

    https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/20/europe/denmark-ghetto-relocation-intl/index.html

    https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2024/06/26/justice-must-prevail-against-denmarks-ghetto-laws

    Result? In 2022 the Social Democrats got their best results in 20 years, and they lead the government

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Danish_general_election

    This is going to happen across Europe, you simply need the ability to extrapolate. Europeans have had enough of migration/asylum and they've made it plain they will now vote the far right into power unless mainstream parties deal with it. So, unless you want the far right in power, you have to get very tough on migration/asylum
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,706

    From the summary of Laura K's programme, here's the key difference between Jenrick and Kemi:

    Jenrick says he'd introduce a legally binding cap on migration in the tens of thousands "or lower"

    Badenoch says some people have brought views that "have no place here" - and also says some cultures are less valid than others

    Both are expressing an immigration-skeptic viewpoint. But Kemi just says something fruity, cultural, and potentially annoying to the sensitive, about immigration. She says nothing about what she would do - what policies she would put in place to support her (perhaps valid) views. Jenrick - what do we need to do? Get net migration below 100,000. How would you do it? Legally-binding migration cap. Now, it may be bollocks, as bollocks as Boris' manifesto, but at least he has committed, so it will be exposed as a u-turn if abandoned. Kemi has given nothing except some punchy commentary. That's a Spectator writer, not a PM.
    Or alternatively, all Jenrick is talking about is numbers....... Not bothering with the thorny but necessary subject of who is most likely to be able to integrate into UK society.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,134
    edited September 29
    Austrian election

    "Official result site of the Ministry for Internal Affairs:
    https://www.bmi.gv.at/412/Nationalratswahlen/Nationalratswahl_2024/start.aspx

    Public broadCaster ORF (i am certain, You will need VPN; left-leaning):
    https://on.orf.at/live?channel=orf2

    Mentioned private broadCaster ServusTV (will also require VPN; is perhaps at YouTube; FPÖVP-leaning):
    https://www.servustv.com/jetzt-live/

    Another private channel (very left-leaning; Puls4 & ATV belong also to this group):
    https://www.puls24.at/live "
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    edited September 29
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Israel has just killed ANOTHER Hezbollah leader

    War is horrific, but as horrors go this is impressively efficient

    But it also begs the question: why was this chilling accuracy not used against Hamas, why instead did they carpet bomb civilians?

    Because Bibi wants to commit genocide/ethnic cleansing in the occupied territories, if you follow that, he's not interested in a greater Israel.
    Yes, that is my suspicion
    If you look at some of the stuff his cabinet have said publicly, such as the below, you can only imagine what they say/do in private.

    The EU, France and UK have condemned a senior Israeli minister for suggesting it might be “justified and moral” to starve people in Gaza.

    Israel’s finance minister, Bezalel Smotrich, sparked international outrage after he said on Wednesday: “No one in the world will allow us to starve 2 million people, even though it might be justified and moral in order to free the hostages.”

    Separately on Wednesday, Israel’s Channel 12 broadcasted security camera footage that reportedly showed the sexual assault of a Palestinian detainee from Gaza at Sde Teiman military detention camp. Last week, the detention of the soldiers accused of involvement in the alleged abuse sparked violent riots.


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/aug/08/israel-finance-minister-bezalel-smotrich-gaza-starve-2m-people-comments
    I said at the beginning I suspected this of Israel. It’s the only logic behind their behaviour in Gaza - a “final solution” to the Palestinian problem. Just cleanse them entirely: make Gaza uninhabitable and terrify them out of the West Bank

    And if you’re an Israeli looking at October 7 I can see why you might feel that way. The Jewish state cannot tolerate the mere possibility it might happen again - it is existential. AND if you’re going to do this you have to get it done before Iran acquires nukes

    So: this will end either with the elimination of any Palestinian homeland or the destruction of Israel
    Israel can't defeat Hamas by invading and occupying the Palestinian Authority any more than the UK could defeat the IRA by invading and occupying the Republic of Ireland and West Belfast
    Of course they can, if they press their advantages until the enemies surrender unconditionally.

    Just as we pressed our advantages until the Nazis surrendered unconditionally.
    Just as the Americans pressed theirs until the Japanese surrendered unconditionally.
    Just as the Sri Lankans pressed theirs until the Tamil Tigers surrendered unconditionally.

    Unconditional surrender ends wars.
    Ethnic cleansing also ends historic conflicts. Cf Turkey/Greece

    This is what Israel is pursuing. They just can’t say it
    Indeed they can’t.

    The Gaza Strip would make for some first class seaside real estate when redeveloped.
    Pretty much everyone with coastline in the Middle East is now planning to copy Dubai and build hotels on the beaches.

    Tourism should be a large attraction for the whole region, especially as it’s mostly off-season for European visitors, somewhere to find sun in winter.
    If it dropped the violence and distaste for alcohol and women then the Middle East would be beautifully situated to make a fortune from tourism.

    Sharm el-Sheikh was itself of course developed by Israel while it occupied the land, and it became a very successful tourist area which it remains to this day after Egypt accepted peace with Israel.

    Egypt accepting it had lost the war ended the cycle of violence with Israel and has led to much more prosperity since, even if not great amounts of freedom. Far better than what the Palestinians have under Hamas.
    Sharm-el-Sheikh is lovely, a good example of what they could all be doing. If you stop the war, you start attracting tourists.

    Even the Saudis are preparing to relax rules on alcohol and women’s dress in their new resort city on the Red Sea. It’ll be a ‘closed city’ with no locals there. Just across the sea from Sharm, as it happens.
    NARRATOR: Sharm-el-Sheikh is not "lovely", unless you you enjoy sterile, dessicated resort-cities inexplicably plonked in hostile desert by a windy coast
    If all you want to do is lie on the beach for a week in the middle of British winter…

    Remember that most Brits have to experience winter, rather than decamp to the brothels of Bangkok for months on end.
    What fools they are

    I can barely tolerate September in the New British Climate (TM)

    I just walked out to buy some food and a wintry wind was gusting down Parkway and everyone was hunched in winter coats. "Feels like" about 9C? This is Sept 29
    Barely coat weather. Very much enjoying the greens turning to golds and anticipating a lovely Autumn here.
    In a world in which school holidays were not an issue, I wouldn't mind missing the British January. But I don't think the Middle East would ever come top of the list, or even seem preferable to Britain, climatically.
    The trick is to find a way of spending the summer in the UK, and the winter somewhere hotter, either the Middle East or Southern Hemisphere.

    An old friend of mine had the best job ever, he was a professional gliding instructor who for two decades was in the UK in the summer and New Zealand in the ‘winter’. Oh, and ‘work’ in most cases meant going flying at least five days a week, and being paid to do so.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,700
    HYUFD said:

    MattW said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @GavinBarwell
    Today's Conservative Party:

    "Immigration is too high"

    "But our population is ageing, we need immigration"

    "Nah, women need to have more kids"

    "And we should encourage mums to stay at home to look after their kids"

    "Yeah and slash maternity pay"


    @Number10cat
    If Badenoch gets elected as Tory leader every Labour MP is going to have to register it as a gift


    @MrHarryCole
    Kemi camp in full damage control mode now:

    Source; “Infighting and internal conflicts helped take our party to an historic defeat. We need to be better, we need our politics to be better. Kemi obviously supports maternity pay and was making a case for lower regulation - something she always aimed for as business secretary. For other leadership campaigns to be seeking to use selective quotes from an interview to score political hits, shows they’re still wedded to the old politics and simply aren’t serious about getting back to government.”

    Good response from Kemi's team.

    I don’t particularly agree with her about maternity pay, and I am still broadly in favour of Jenrick, but I do detest these infantile 'gotcha' moments when someone departs from the blandest views on something.
    Serious question - does Jenrick identify as a Nat Con? I've been surprised by some who do, who I would (my opinion) expect to know better than to tangle up religion with their political identity in the UK. Ultimately imo it won't be effective here for cultural reasons.
    Jenrick's wife is Jewish and they are bringing up their children in that faith
    Interesting - thanks.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,134
    HYUFD said:

    carnforth said:

    Austria projection from initial results. Freedom party just on top.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8rdygy5888o

    Far right Freedom party looks to have come first in Austria yes but the centre right OVP may prefer coalition with the centre left SPO who are projected to come 3rd than with them
    They might have to do a 3 party coalition with the Greens as well.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,696

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Israel has just killed ANOTHER Hezbollah leader

    War is horrific, but as horrors go this is impressively efficient

    But it also begs the question: why was this chilling accuracy not used against Hamas, why instead did they carpet bomb civilians?

    Because Bibi wants to commit genocide/ethnic cleansing in the occupied territories, if you follow that, he's not interested in a greater Israel.
    Yes, that is my suspicion
    If you look at some of the stuff his cabinet have said publicly, such as the below, you can only imagine what they say/do in private.

    The EU, France and UK have condemned a senior Israeli minister for suggesting it might be “justified and moral” to starve people in Gaza.

    Israel’s finance minister, Bezalel Smotrich, sparked international outrage after he said on Wednesday: “No one in the world will allow us to starve 2 million people, even though it might be justified and moral in order to free the hostages.”

    Separately on Wednesday, Israel’s Channel 12 broadcasted security camera footage that reportedly showed the sexual assault of a Palestinian detainee from Gaza at Sde Teiman military detention camp. Last week, the detention of the soldiers accused of involvement in the alleged abuse sparked violent riots.


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/aug/08/israel-finance-minister-bezalel-smotrich-gaza-starve-2m-people-comments
    I said at the beginning I suspected this of Israel. It’s the only logic behind their behaviour in Gaza - a “final solution” to the Palestinian problem. Just cleanse them entirely: make Gaza uninhabitable and terrify them out of the West Bank

    And if you’re an Israeli looking at October 7 I can see why you might feel that way. The Jewish state cannot tolerate the mere possibility it might happen again - it is existential. AND if you’re going to do this you have to get it done before Iran acquires nukes

    So: this will end either with the elimination of any Palestinian homeland or the destruction of Israel
    Israel can't defeat Hamas by invading and occupying the Palestinian Authority any more than the UK could defeat the IRA by invading and occupying the Republic of Ireland and West Belfast
    They won’t occupy. They will just make Gaza an unliveable wasteland
    It already was anyway largely, the West Bank however was perfectly liveable in
    I don’t think the Israelis care any more. After October 7 they want to expel all Palestinians because they see them as an existential threat to Jews (and the October 7 attackers made it very clear they wanted to kill every Jew they encountered)

    The logic is pretty brutal if you’re an Israeli. Israel can only continue if “Palestine” is extinguished. Hence Gaza. At the same time Israel is now securing its northern border with Lebanon and maybe even taking out the Iranian leadership: might as well get it all done in one go

    This all makes perfect sense IF your overwhelming concern is the survival of Israel as a Jewish ethno-state. It is also horrendously cruel
    It is also disastrous, if they kill lots of Palestinians, many of them innocent of any terrorist links and add lots of innocent Lebanese to the death toll too they will be creating generations of pro Hamas and pro Hezbollah terrorists who weren't there before.

    We also need to remember 30% of the population of Lebanon are Christian and 6% of Palestinians are Christian too, they should be naturally pro Israel but won't be if all their churches are bombed and their families driven from their homes
    Cut the crap, as long as Hamas and Hezbollah exist there will always be more people joining Hamas and Hezbollah.

    As long as they exist, those regions will be blockaded and impoverished and as long as people are impoverished the only way out of poverty or to have any hope is to unfortunately join with Hamas and Hezbollah respectively.

    The only way to end the cycle of violence is to metaphorically stuff people's faces with gold, the Marshall Plan works, but the prerequisite of that even being an option is to end the threat from Hamas and Hezbollah.

    Not reduce it, not a temporary ceasefire, but to end the threat by destroying those organisations completely.

    If that is done the cycle of violence can end, but if there's a ceasefire then it is inevitable that the fighting will resume as without a lasting peace, without development, without opportunities people will see no alternative but to continue the violence.
    That isn't going to come from Bibi and/or Smotrich. Bibi is interested in starting in power and avoiding corruption charges: endless war suits him. Smotrich wants genocide, to clear out the non-Jewish populations and create a greater Israel.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,668

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Israel has just killed ANOTHER Hezbollah leader

    War is horrific, but as horrors go this is impressively efficient

    But it also begs the question: why was this chilling accuracy not used against Hamas, why instead did they carpet bomb civilians?

    Because Bibi wants to commit genocide/ethnic cleansing in the occupied territories, if you follow that, he's not interested in a greater Israel.
    Yes, that is my suspicion
    If you look at some of the stuff his cabinet have said publicly, such as the below, you can only imagine what they say/do in private.

    The EU, France and UK have condemned a senior Israeli minister for suggesting it might be “justified and moral” to starve people in Gaza.

    Israel’s finance minister, Bezalel Smotrich, sparked international outrage after he said on Wednesday: “No one in the world will allow us to starve 2 million people, even though it might be justified and moral in order to free the hostages.”

    Separately on Wednesday, Israel’s Channel 12 broadcasted security camera footage that reportedly showed the sexual assault of a Palestinian detainee from Gaza at Sde Teiman military detention camp. Last week, the detention of the soldiers accused of involvement in the alleged abuse sparked violent riots.


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/aug/08/israel-finance-minister-bezalel-smotrich-gaza-starve-2m-people-comments
    I said at the beginning I suspected this of Israel. It’s the only logic behind their behaviour in Gaza - a “final solution” to the Palestinian problem. Just cleanse them entirely: make Gaza uninhabitable and terrify them out of the West Bank

    And if you’re an Israeli looking at October 7 I can see why you might feel that way. The Jewish state cannot tolerate the mere possibility it might happen again - it is existential. AND if you’re going to do this you have to get it done before Iran acquires nukes

    So: this will end either with the elimination of any Palestinian homeland or the destruction of Israel
    Israel can't defeat Hamas by invading and occupying the Palestinian Authority any more than the UK could defeat the IRA by invading and occupying the Republic of Ireland and West Belfast
    Of course they can, if they press their advantages until the enemies surrender unconditionally.

    Just as we pressed our advantages until the Nazis surrendered unconditionally.
    Just as the Americans pressed theirs until the Japanese surrendered unconditionally.
    Just as the Sri Lankans pressed theirs until the Tamil Tigers surrendered unconditionally.

    Unconditional surrender ends wars.
    Ethnic cleansing also ends historic conflicts. Cf Turkey/Greece

    This is what Israel is pursuing. They just can’t say it
    Indeed they can’t.

    The Gaza Strip would make for some first class seaside real estate when redeveloped.
    Pretty much everyone with coastline in the Middle East is now planning to copy Dubai and build hotels on the beaches.

    Tourism should be a large attraction for the whole region, especially as it’s mostly off-season for European visitors, somewhere to find sun in winter.
    If it dropped the violence and distaste for alcohol and women then the Middle East would be beautifully situated to make a fortune from tourism.

    Sharm el-Sheikh was itself of course developed by Israel while it occupied the land, and it became a very successful tourist area which it remains to this day after Egypt accepted peace with Israel.

    Egypt accepting it had lost the war ended the cycle of violence with Israel and has led to much more prosperity since, even if not great amounts of freedom. Far better than what the Palestinians have under Hamas.
    Sharm-el-Sheikh is lovely, a good example of what they could all be doing. If you stop the war, you start attracting tourists.

    Even the Saudis are preparing to relax rules on alcohol and women’s dress in their new resort city on the Red Sea. It’ll be a ‘closed city’ with no locals there. Just across the sea from Sharm, as it happens.
    NARRATOR: Sharm-el-Sheikh is not "lovely", unless you you enjoy sterile, dessicated resort-cities inexplicably plonked in hostile desert by a windy coast
    If all you want to do is lie on the beach for a week in the middle of British winter…

    Remember that most Brits have to experience winter, rather than decamp to the brothels of Bangkok for months on end.
    What fools they are

    I can barely tolerate September in the New British Climate (TM)

    I just walked out to buy some food and a wintry wind was gusting down Parkway and everyone was hunched in winter coats. "Feels like" about 9C? This is Sept 29
    The cold weather is God's reminder to burn more Catholics at the stake.

    My fractious mood might be related to this: yesterday I discovered that you're never too old to learn new things

    I went out on the lash with some old uni friends. The evening conclued at chucking out time at the Groucho. Around 1am we came up with a new game of: "inventing hideous cocktails for the other person to drink"

    From this I have learned: "never start inventing cocktails, at the Groucho, at 1am"
  • Sandpit said:

    Crikey.

    Former deputy prime minister Sir Oliver Dowden has become the most senior ally of Rishi Sunak to be interviewed in the official investigation into betting on the date of the general election, Sky News understands.

    He follows Mr Sunak's former parliamentary aide Craig Williams and former Downing Street chief of staff Liam Booth-Smith in being questioned by the Gambling Commission, the statutory body that regulates betting in the UK.

    Mr Sunak has not yet been interviewed, Sky News understands, though "numerous people" including Conservative Party officials have been.

    The inquiry - launched in June - is set to continue for another three to six months.

    News of Sir Oliver's interview, along with the seizing of "hundreds of documents" from Tory HQ by the commission, has emerged on the day the Conservative Party Conference opened in Birmingham.

    Ironically, the Gambling Commission's head office, on the fourth floor of Victoria Square House, Victoria Square, Birmingham, is just a half-mile, 10-minute walk from the ICC, where the Tory conference is taking place.


    https://news.sky.com/story/former-deputy-pm-oliver-dowden-interviewed-in-election-day-betting-probe-13224498

    How much money is being spent investigating this, vs how much money was actually staked on the election date?

    It shouldn’t take long to work out if anyone put money on a certain date, and then afterwards was in the meeting where they lobbied for that date, which would certainly be a problem.

    It’s possible that people had an idea of when the date would be, from inside information, but it wasn’t the date until the PM actually announced it. That’s no different from a horse trainer giving tips to their friends about which are the fit and which are the lame animals.
    It is barely worth investigating except to establish a precedent. Presumably the Gambling Commission has already been told who staked what and when.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,226

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Israel has just killed ANOTHER Hezbollah leader

    War is horrific, but as horrors go this is impressively efficient

    But it also begs the question: why was this chilling accuracy not used against Hamas, why instead did they carpet bomb civilians?

    Because Bibi wants to commit genocide/ethnic cleansing in the occupied territories, if you follow that, he's not interested in a greater Israel.
    Yes, that is my suspicion
    If you look at some of the stuff his cabinet have said publicly, such as the below, you can only imagine what they say/do in private.

    The EU, France and UK have condemned a senior Israeli minister for suggesting it might be “justified and moral” to starve people in Gaza.

    Israel’s finance minister, Bezalel Smotrich, sparked international outrage after he said on Wednesday: “No one in the world will allow us to starve 2 million people, even though it might be justified and moral in order to free the hostages.”

    Separately on Wednesday, Israel’s Channel 12 broadcasted security camera footage that reportedly showed the sexual assault of a Palestinian detainee from Gaza at Sde Teiman military detention camp. Last week, the detention of the soldiers accused of involvement in the alleged abuse sparked violent riots.


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/aug/08/israel-finance-minister-bezalel-smotrich-gaza-starve-2m-people-comments
    I said at the beginning I suspected this of Israel. It’s the only logic behind their behaviour in Gaza - a “final solution” to the Palestinian problem. Just cleanse them entirely: make Gaza uninhabitable and terrify them out of the West Bank

    And if you’re an Israeli looking at October 7 I can see why you might feel that way. The Jewish state cannot tolerate the mere possibility it might happen again - it is existential. AND if you’re going to do this you have to get it done before Iran acquires nukes

    So: this will end either with the elimination of any Palestinian homeland or the destruction of Israel
    Israel can't defeat Hamas by invading and occupying the Palestinian Authority any more than the UK could defeat the IRA by invading and occupying the Republic of Ireland and West Belfast
    Of course they can, if they press their advantages until the enemies surrender unconditionally.

    Just as we pressed our advantages until the Nazis surrendered unconditionally.
    Just as the Americans pressed theirs until the Japanese surrendered unconditionally.
    Just as the Sri Lankans pressed theirs until the Tamil Tigers surrendered unconditionally.

    Unconditional surrender ends wars.
    Ethnic cleansing also ends historic conflicts. Cf Turkey/Greece

    This is what Israel is pursuing. They just can’t say it
    Indeed they can’t.

    The Gaza Strip would make for some first class seaside real estate when redeveloped.
    Pretty much everyone with coastline in the Middle East is now planning to copy Dubai and build hotels on the beaches.

    Tourism should be a large attraction for the whole region, especially as it’s mostly off-season for European visitors, somewhere to find sun in winter.
    If it dropped the violence and distaste for alcohol and women then the Middle East would be beautifully situated to make a fortune from tourism.

    Sharm el-Sheikh was itself of course developed by Israel while it occupied the land, and it became a very successful tourist area which it remains to this day after Egypt accepted peace with Israel.

    Egypt accepting it had lost the war ended the cycle of violence with Israel and has led to much more prosperity since, even if not great amounts of freedom. Far better than what the Palestinians have under Hamas.
    Sharm-el-Sheikh is lovely, a good example of what they could all be doing. If you stop the war, you start attracting tourists.

    Even the Saudis are preparing to relax rules on alcohol and women’s dress in their new resort city on the Red Sea. It’ll be a ‘closed city’ with no locals there. Just across the sea from Sharm, as it happens.
    NARRATOR: Sharm-el-Sheikh is not "lovely", unless you you enjoy sterile, dessicated resort-cities inexplicably plonked in hostile desert by a windy coast
    If all you want to do is lie on the beach for a week in the middle of British winter…

    Remember that most Brits have to experience winter, rather than decamp to the brothels of Bangkok for months on end.
    What fools they are

    I can barely tolerate September in the New British Climate (TM)

    I just walked out to buy some food and a wintry wind was gusting down Parkway and everyone was hunched in winter coats. "Feels like" about 9C? This is Sept 29
    The cold weather is God's reminder to burn more Catholics at the stake.
    Mary Tudor did the burnings to Protestants instead
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,696

    Click the link to read Musk’s explanation for the claim below:

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1840409051357696324

    Very few Americans realize that, if Trump is NOT elected, this will be the last election. Far from being a threat to democracy, he is the only way to save it!

    Musk routinely posts antisemitism and conspiracy theories. I presume this is just more of the same.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,226

    HYUFD said:

    carnforth said:

    Austria projection from initial results. Freedom party just on top.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8rdygy5888o

    Far right Freedom party looks to have come first in Austria yes but the centre right OVP may prefer coalition with the centre left SPO who are projected to come 3rd than with them
    Also yet another dismal failure of the strategy of mainstream centre-right parties co-opting language of populist right. Few have been as accommodating as the ÖVP have been of the FPÖ, yet this is the end result (as it has been pretty much everywhere).

    https://bsky.app/profile/dylandifford.bsky.social/post/3l5ciuifkg22h
    The centre right were still second though and will probably end up in a coalition government with the centre left. If they were truly accommodating of the far right FPO they would be going into government with them instead
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231
    edited September 29
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    I think Kemi is unfit to be leader having just read her comments on maternity leave/pay. It's absolutely idiotic, in a country where we have a birth rate lower than the replacement rate we need for families to have an extra child, not have fewer because they can't afford the time off.

    If anything maternity pay and early years childcare funding needs to go up substantially so that parents don't feel as though they can't have 2 kids instead of 1 or decide that 2 is enough and not go for a third one etc...

    I don't know if it plays well with members, perhaps it does because they're all old fuckers who "didn't have that in our day and we raised a family of 17 on a single salary" but this shows she doesn't understand the major demographic issue facing the nation and a big driver of migration in the last 10 years.

    Why are you being so dramatic about it - she has one opinion that you don't agree with and she is 'unfit to be leader'? Do you expect to agree with every opinion?
    It's not dramatic, it shows she's got poor judgement on one of the biggest issues of our era and for my generation and the one that follows.
    It is a single issue where you have a disagreement. She has her reasons and you have yours. The silly media uproar circus whenever someone departs from the mumsnet script is what's landing us with shit politicians like Keir Starmer who've spent their entire career not going off-message and think that's all it takes to be PM.

    I do not agree with Badenoch on maternity leave specifically, but there is a general point to be made that successive Governments heaping obligations like high levels of paid holiday, minimum wage/living wage, maternity/paternity leave, workplace pensions etc. etc. etc. all come with a price, which is that many companies don't make it. Chancellors just like to outbid each other in these changes because it's 'free'. Which it isn't.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,472
    edited September 29
    Sandpit said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Israel has just killed ANOTHER Hezbollah leader

    War is horrific, but as horrors go this is impressively efficient

    But it also begs the question: why was this chilling accuracy not used against Hamas, why instead did they carpet bomb civilians?

    Because Bibi wants to commit genocide/ethnic cleansing in the occupied territories, if you follow that, he's not interested in a greater Israel.
    Yes, that is my suspicion
    If you look at some of the stuff his cabinet have said publicly, such as the below, you can only imagine what they say/do in private.

    The EU, France and UK have condemned a senior Israeli minister for suggesting it might be “justified and moral” to starve people in Gaza.

    Israel’s finance minister, Bezalel Smotrich, sparked international outrage after he said on Wednesday: “No one in the world will allow us to starve 2 million people, even though it might be justified and moral in order to free the hostages.”

    Separately on Wednesday, Israel’s Channel 12 broadcasted security camera footage that reportedly showed the sexual assault of a Palestinian detainee from Gaza at Sde Teiman military detention camp. Last week, the detention of the soldiers accused of involvement in the alleged abuse sparked violent riots.


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/aug/08/israel-finance-minister-bezalel-smotrich-gaza-starve-2m-people-comments
    I said at the beginning I suspected this of Israel. It’s the only logic behind their behaviour in Gaza - a “final solution” to the Palestinian problem. Just cleanse them entirely: make Gaza uninhabitable and terrify them out of the West Bank

    And if you’re an Israeli looking at October 7 I can see why you might feel that way. The Jewish state cannot tolerate the mere possibility it might happen again - it is existential. AND if you’re going to do this you have to get it done before Iran acquires nukes

    So: this will end either with the elimination of any Palestinian homeland or the destruction of Israel
    Israel can't defeat Hamas by invading and occupying the Palestinian Authority any more than the UK could defeat the IRA by invading and occupying the Republic of Ireland and West Belfast
    Of course they can, if they press their advantages until the enemies surrender unconditionally.

    Just as we pressed our advantages until the Nazis surrendered unconditionally.
    Just as the Americans pressed theirs until the Japanese surrendered unconditionally.
    Just as the Sri Lankans pressed theirs until the Tamil Tigers surrendered unconditionally.

    Unconditional surrender ends wars.
    Ethnic cleansing also ends historic conflicts. Cf Turkey/Greece

    This is what Israel is pursuing. They just can’t say it
    Indeed they can’t.

    The Gaza Strip would make for some first class seaside real estate when redeveloped.
    Pretty much everyone with coastline in the Middle East is now planning to copy Dubai and build hotels on the beaches.

    Tourism should be a large attraction for the whole region, especially as it’s mostly off-season for European visitors, somewhere to find sun in winter.
    If it dropped the violence and distaste for alcohol and women then the Middle East would be beautifully situated to make a fortune from tourism.

    Sharm el-Sheikh was itself of course developed by Israel while it occupied the land, and it became a very successful tourist area which it remains to this day after Egypt accepted peace with Israel.

    Egypt accepting it had lost the war ended the cycle of violence with Israel and has led to much more prosperity since, even if not great amounts of freedom. Far better than what the Palestinians have under Hamas.
    Sharm-el-Sheikh is lovely, a good example of what they could all be doing. If you stop the war, you start attracting tourists.

    Even the Saudis are preparing to relax rules on alcohol and women’s dress in their new resort city on the Red Sea. It’ll be a ‘closed city’ with no locals there. Just across the sea from Sharm, as it happens.
    NARRATOR: Sharm-el-Sheikh is not "lovely", unless you you enjoy sterile, dessicated resort-cities inexplicably plonked in hostile desert by a windy coast
    If all you want to do is lie on the beach for a week in the middle of British winter…

    Remember that most Brits have to experience winter, rather than decamp to the brothels of Bangkok for months on end.
    What fools they are

    I can barely tolerate September in the New British Climate (TM)

    I just walked out to buy some food and a wintry wind was gusting down Parkway and everyone was hunched in winter coats. "Feels like" about 9C? This is Sept 29
    Barely coat weather. Very much enjoying the greens turning to golds and anticipating a lovely Autumn here.
    In a world in which school holidays were not an issue, I wouldn't mind missing the British January. But I don't think the Middle East would ever come top of the list, or even seem preferable to Britain, climatically.
    The trick is to find a way of spending the summer in the UK, and the winter somewhere hotter, either the Middle East or Southern Hemisphere.

    An old friend of mine had the best job ever, he was a professional gliding instructor who for two decades was in the UK in the summer and New Zealand in the ‘winter’. Oh, and ‘work’ in most cases meant going flying at least five days a week, and being paid to do so.
    A colleague of mines son is a pilot. In the summer he flies Canadians to remote fishing and hunting lodges in a float plane, then when the weather changes he flies supplies to remote missions in the DRC, including occasional scrapes with various guerilla.

    He has some amazing photos and stories.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,668
    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Israel has just killed ANOTHER Hezbollah leader

    War is horrific, but as horrors go this is impressively efficient

    But it also begs the question: why was this chilling accuracy not used against Hamas, why instead did they carpet bomb civilians?

    Because Bibi wants to commit genocide/ethnic cleansing in the occupied territories, if you follow that, he's not interested in a greater Israel.
    Yes, that is my suspicion
    If you look at some of the stuff his cabinet have said publicly, such as the below, you can only imagine what they say/do in private.

    The EU, France and UK have condemned a senior Israeli minister for suggesting it might be “justified and moral” to starve people in Gaza.

    Israel’s finance minister, Bezalel Smotrich, sparked international outrage after he said on Wednesday: “No one in the world will allow us to starve 2 million people, even though it might be justified and moral in order to free the hostages.”

    Separately on Wednesday, Israel’s Channel 12 broadcasted security camera footage that reportedly showed the sexual assault of a Palestinian detainee from Gaza at Sde Teiman military detention camp. Last week, the detention of the soldiers accused of involvement in the alleged abuse sparked violent riots.


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/aug/08/israel-finance-minister-bezalel-smotrich-gaza-starve-2m-people-comments
    I said at the beginning I suspected this of Israel. It’s the only logic behind their behaviour in Gaza - a “final solution” to the Palestinian problem. Just cleanse them entirely: make Gaza uninhabitable and terrify them out of the West Bank

    And if you’re an Israeli looking at October 7 I can see why you might feel that way. The Jewish state cannot tolerate the mere possibility it might happen again - it is existential. AND if you’re going to do this you have to get it done before Iran acquires nukes

    So: this will end either with the elimination of any Palestinian homeland or the destruction of Israel
    Israel can't defeat Hamas by invading and occupying the Palestinian Authority any more than the UK could defeat the IRA by invading and occupying the Republic of Ireland and West Belfast
    Of course they can, if they press their advantages until the enemies surrender unconditionally.

    Just as we pressed our advantages until the Nazis surrendered unconditionally.
    Just as the Americans pressed theirs until the Japanese surrendered unconditionally.
    Just as the Sri Lankans pressed theirs until the Tamil Tigers surrendered unconditionally.

    Unconditional surrender ends wars.
    Ethnic cleansing also ends historic conflicts. Cf Turkey/Greece

    This is what Israel is pursuing. They just can’t say it
    Indeed they can’t.

    The Gaza Strip would make for some first class seaside real estate when redeveloped.
    Pretty much everyone with coastline in the Middle East is now planning to copy Dubai and build hotels on the beaches.

    Tourism should be a large attraction for the whole region, especially as it’s mostly off-season for European visitors, somewhere to find sun in winter.
    If it dropped the violence and distaste for alcohol and women then the Middle East would be beautifully situated to make a fortune from tourism.

    Sharm el-Sheikh was itself of course developed by Israel while it occupied the land, and it became a very successful tourist area which it remains to this day after Egypt accepted peace with Israel.

    Egypt accepting it had lost the war ended the cycle of violence with Israel and has led to much more prosperity since, even if not great amounts of freedom. Far better than what the Palestinians have under Hamas.
    Sharm-el-Sheikh is lovely, a good example of what they could all be doing. If you stop the war, you start attracting tourists.

    Even the Saudis are preparing to relax rules on alcohol and women’s dress in their new resort city on the Red Sea. It’ll be a ‘closed city’ with no locals there. Just across the sea from Sharm, as it happens.
    NARRATOR: Sharm-el-Sheikh is not "lovely", unless you you enjoy sterile, dessicated resort-cities inexplicably plonked in hostile desert by a windy coast
    If all you want to do is lie on the beach for a week in the middle of British winter…

    Remember that most Brits have to experience winter, rather than decamp to the brothels of Bangkok for months on end.
    If you want hot sun in the deeps of winter then Sharm should not be on your list. Because it's not reliably hot and sunny in January: the average high is 19C and it can be grey and cool. Very disappointing if you want proper sun

    https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/travel/holiday-weather/africa/egypt/sharm-el-sheikh

    Aswan is a few degrees warmer, but evenings are sharp


  • Sandpit said:

    Crikey.

    Former deputy prime minister Sir Oliver Dowden has become the most senior ally of Rishi Sunak to be interviewed in the official investigation into betting on the date of the general election, Sky News understands.

    He follows Mr Sunak's former parliamentary aide Craig Williams and former Downing Street chief of staff Liam Booth-Smith in being questioned by the Gambling Commission, the statutory body that regulates betting in the UK.

    Mr Sunak has not yet been interviewed, Sky News understands, though "numerous people" including Conservative Party officials have been.

    The inquiry - launched in June - is set to continue for another three to six months.

    News of Sir Oliver's interview, along with the seizing of "hundreds of documents" from Tory HQ by the commission, has emerged on the day the Conservative Party Conference opened in Birmingham.

    Ironically, the Gambling Commission's head office, on the fourth floor of Victoria Square House, Victoria Square, Birmingham, is just a half-mile, 10-minute walk from the ICC, where the Tory conference is taking place.


    https://news.sky.com/story/former-deputy-pm-oliver-dowden-interviewed-in-election-day-betting-probe-13224498

    How much money is being spent investigating this, vs how much money was actually staked on the election date?

    It shouldn’t take long to work out if anyone put money on a certain date, and then afterwards was in the meeting where they lobbied for that date, which would certainly be a problem.

    It’s possible that people had an idea of when the date would be, from inside information, but it wasn’t the date until the PM actually announced it. That’s no different from a horse trainer giving tips to their friends about which are the fit and which are the lame animals.
    I suspect it is like Operation Branchform which branched out to other things following the investigation of the original allegations.

    As OGH said to me earlier on this week, it wouldn't shock him to know these people were betting on other things given how much of PB's traffic comes from Westminster IP addresses.

    There's a very fine line on the ethics of betting on private/embargoed polling.
    Are you and the other mods worried that it could bring quite a lot of scrutiny and press interest to the site? If political betting becomes a bit of a stick to beat politicians with, might Political Betting feel a bit of stick as well?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,205

    Click the link to read Musk’s explanation for the claim below:

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1840409051357696324

    Very few Americans realize that, if Trump is NOT elected, this will be the last election. Far from being a threat to democracy, he is the only way to save it!

    I mean, that sorta ignores the entire history of the USA. A country that was built on mass immigration.

    As so much Musk comes out with, it's BS.
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Israel has just killed ANOTHER Hezbollah leader

    War is horrific, but as horrors go this is impressively efficient

    But it also begs the question: why was this chilling accuracy not used against Hamas, why instead did they carpet bomb civilians?

    Because Bibi wants to commit genocide/ethnic cleansing in the occupied territories, if you follow that, he's not interested in a greater Israel.
    Yes, that is my suspicion
    If you look at some of the stuff his cabinet have said publicly, such as the below, you can only imagine what they say/do in private.

    The EU, France and UK have condemned a senior Israeli minister for suggesting it might be “justified and moral” to starve people in Gaza.

    Israel’s finance minister, Bezalel Smotrich, sparked international outrage after he said on Wednesday: “No one in the world will allow us to starve 2 million people, even though it might be justified and moral in order to free the hostages.”

    Separately on Wednesday, Israel’s Channel 12 broadcasted security camera footage that reportedly showed the sexual assault of a Palestinian detainee from Gaza at Sde Teiman military detention camp. Last week, the detention of the soldiers accused of involvement in the alleged abuse sparked violent riots.


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/aug/08/israel-finance-minister-bezalel-smotrich-gaza-starve-2m-people-comments
    I said at the beginning I suspected this of Israel. It’s the only logic behind their behaviour in Gaza - a “final solution” to the Palestinian problem. Just cleanse them entirely: make Gaza uninhabitable and terrify them out of the West Bank

    And if you’re an Israeli looking at October 7 I can see why you might feel that way. The Jewish state cannot tolerate the mere possibility it might happen again - it is existential. AND if you’re going to do this you have to get it done before Iran acquires nukes

    So: this will end either with the elimination of any Palestinian homeland or the destruction of Israel
    Israel can't defeat Hamas by invading and occupying the Palestinian Authority any more than the UK could defeat the IRA by invading and occupying the Republic of Ireland and West Belfast
    Of course they can, if they press their advantages until the enemies surrender unconditionally.

    Just as we pressed our advantages until the Nazis surrendered unconditionally.
    Just as the Americans pressed theirs until the Japanese surrendered unconditionally.
    Just as the Sri Lankans pressed theirs until the Tamil Tigers surrendered unconditionally.

    Unconditional surrender ends wars.
    Ethnic cleansing also ends historic conflicts. Cf Turkey/Greece

    This is what Israel is pursuing. They just can’t say it
    Indeed they can’t.

    The Gaza Strip would make for some first class seaside real estate when redeveloped.
    Pretty much everyone with coastline in the Middle East is now planning to copy Dubai and build hotels on the beaches.

    Tourism should be a large attraction for the whole region, especially as it’s mostly off-season for European visitors, somewhere to find sun in winter.
    If it dropped the violence and distaste for alcohol and women then the Middle East would be beautifully situated to make a fortune from tourism.

    Sharm el-Sheikh was itself of course developed by Israel while it occupied the land, and it became a very successful tourist area which it remains to this day after Egypt accepted peace with Israel.

    Egypt accepting it had lost the war ended the cycle of violence with Israel and has led to much more prosperity since, even if not great amounts of freedom. Far better than what the Palestinians have under Hamas.
    Sharm-el-Sheikh is lovely, a good example of what they could all be doing. If you stop the war, you start attracting tourists.

    Even the Saudis are preparing to relax rules on alcohol and women’s dress in their new resort city on the Red Sea. It’ll be a ‘closed city’ with no locals there. Just across the sea from Sharm, as it happens.
    NARRATOR: Sharm-el-Sheikh is not "lovely", unless you you enjoy sterile, dessicated resort-cities inexplicably plonked in hostile desert by a windy coast
    If all you want to do is lie on the beach for a week in the middle of British winter…

    Remember that most Brits have to experience winter, rather than decamp to the brothels of Bangkok for months on end.
    What fools they are

    I can barely tolerate September in the New British Climate (TM)

    I just walked out to buy some food and a wintry wind was gusting down Parkway and everyone was hunched in winter coats. "Feels like" about 9C? This is Sept 29
    The cold weather is God's reminder to burn more Catholics at the stake.

    My fractious mood might be related to this: yesterday I discovered that you're never too old to learn new things

    I went out on the lash with some old uni friends. The evening conclued at chucking out time at the Groucho. Around 1am we came up with a new game of: "inventing hideous cocktails for the other person to drink"

    From this I have learned: "never start inventing cocktails, at the Groucho, at 1am"
    The annoying thing is you're indoors and you think oh it looks nice outside and you go out and you find, fuck it is cold, I need to put on my The North Face arctic gear.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,472
    HYUFD said:

    MattW said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @GavinBarwell
    Today's Conservative Party:

    "Immigration is too high"

    "But our population is ageing, we need immigration"

    "Nah, women need to have more kids"

    "And we should encourage mums to stay at home to look after their kids"

    "Yeah and slash maternity pay"


    @Number10cat
    If Badenoch gets elected as Tory leader every Labour MP is going to have to register it as a gift


    @MrHarryCole
    Kemi camp in full damage control mode now:

    Source; “Infighting and internal conflicts helped take our party to an historic defeat. We need to be better, we need our politics to be better. Kemi obviously supports maternity pay and was making a case for lower regulation - something she always aimed for as business secretary. For other leadership campaigns to be seeking to use selective quotes from an interview to score political hits, shows they’re still wedded to the old politics and simply aren’t serious about getting back to government.”

    Good response from Kemi's team.

    I don’t particularly agree with her about maternity pay, and I am still broadly in favour of Jenrick, but I do detest these infantile 'gotcha' moments when someone departs from the blandest views on something.
    Serious question - does Jenrick identify as a Nat Con? I've been surprised by some who do, who I would (my opinion) expect to know better than to tangle up religion with their political identity in the UK. Ultimately imo it won't be effective here for cultural reasons.
    Jenrick's wife is Jewish and they are bringing up their children in that faith
    HYUFD said:

    MattW said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @GavinBarwell
    Today's Conservative Party:

    "Immigration is too high"

    "But our population is ageing, we need immigration"

    "Nah, women need to have more kids"

    "And we should encourage mums to stay at home to look after their kids"

    "Yeah and slash maternity pay"


    @Number10cat
    If Badenoch gets elected as Tory leader every Labour MP is going to have to register it as a gift


    @MrHarryCole
    Kemi camp in full damage control mode now:

    Source; “Infighting and internal conflicts helped take our party to an historic defeat. We need to be better, we need our politics to be better. Kemi obviously supports maternity pay and was making a case for lower regulation - something she always aimed for as business secretary. For other leadership campaigns to be seeking to use selective quotes from an interview to score political hits, shows they’re still wedded to the old politics and simply aren’t serious about getting back to government.”

    Good response from Kemi's team.

    I don’t particularly agree with her about maternity pay, and I am still broadly in favour of Jenrick, but I do detest these infantile 'gotcha' moments when someone departs from the blandest views on something.
    Serious question - does Jenrick identify as a Nat Con? I've been surprised by some who do, who I would (my opinion) expect to know better than to tangle up religion with their political identity in the UK. Ultimately imo it won't be effective here for cultural reasons.
    Jenrick's wife is Jewish and they are bringing up their children in that faith
    So the same as Starmer and Harris.

    There's a lot of it about.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,700

    Okay, I love Tom Tugendhat even more.

    I've only discovered this story from 2022

    Security minister and Tory MP Tom Tugendhat has denied using his phone while driving his car.

    He was spotted in Wandsworth High Street on 4 April by Met Police officer PC Joseph Robson, who pulled him over.

    In a written guilty plea, the Tonbridge and Malling MP said he was holding the phone but not using it and had later taken a driving course.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-63573882

    I did that one for all the candidates the other day; you need to follow my comments :smile: .

    He was being disingenuous, and failing to take personal responsibility for himself. He is pretending "I was not making a phone call" means "I was not using my phone". It's the kind of circumlocution used by Mr Poophole.

    He was using his phone in his hand for satellite navigation whilst driving. In law that meets the definition of "using a phone". Since it was one of a series of offences that took him over the top, he got himself banned.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-63662624

    My expectation is that he would do it again if he thought he could get away with it.
  • Sandpit said:

    Crikey.

    Former deputy prime minister Sir Oliver Dowden has become the most senior ally of Rishi Sunak to be interviewed in the official investigation into betting on the date of the general election, Sky News understands.

    He follows Mr Sunak's former parliamentary aide Craig Williams and former Downing Street chief of staff Liam Booth-Smith in being questioned by the Gambling Commission, the statutory body that regulates betting in the UK.

    Mr Sunak has not yet been interviewed, Sky News understands, though "numerous people" including Conservative Party officials have been.

    The inquiry - launched in June - is set to continue for another three to six months.

    News of Sir Oliver's interview, along with the seizing of "hundreds of documents" from Tory HQ by the commission, has emerged on the day the Conservative Party Conference opened in Birmingham.

    Ironically, the Gambling Commission's head office, on the fourth floor of Victoria Square House, Victoria Square, Birmingham, is just a half-mile, 10-minute walk from the ICC, where the Tory conference is taking place.


    https://news.sky.com/story/former-deputy-pm-oliver-dowden-interviewed-in-election-day-betting-probe-13224498

    How much money is being spent investigating this, vs how much money was actually staked on the election date?

    It shouldn’t take long to work out if anyone put money on a certain date, and then afterwards was in the meeting where they lobbied for that date, which would certainly be a problem.

    It’s possible that people had an idea of when the date would be, from inside information, but it wasn’t the date until the PM actually announced it. That’s no different from a horse trainer giving tips to their friends about which are the fit and which are the lame animals.
    I suspect it is like Operation Branchform which branched out to other things following the investigation of the original allegations.

    As OGH said to me earlier on this week, it wouldn't shock him to know these people were betting on other things given how much of PB's traffic comes from Westminster IP addresses.

    There's a very fine line on the ethics of betting on private/embargoed polling.
    Are you and the other mods worried that it could bring quite a lot of scrutiny and press interest to the site? If political betting becomes a bit of a stick to beat politicians with, might Political Betting feel a bit of stick as well?
    I am limited to what I can say but we're already on the radar, so modest fellow tipped a July election at 20/1.

    Did I have inside information? Nope, I just thought Sunak looked knackered.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231

    From the summary of Laura K's programme, here's the key difference between Jenrick and Kemi:

    Jenrick says he'd introduce a legally binding cap on migration in the tens of thousands "or lower"

    Badenoch says some people have brought views that "have no place here" - and also says some cultures are less valid than others

    Both are expressing an immigration-skeptic viewpoint. But Kemi just says something fruity, cultural, and potentially annoying to the sensitive, about immigration. She says nothing about what she would do - what policies she would put in place to support her (perhaps valid) views. Jenrick - what do we need to do? Get net migration below 100,000. How would you do it? Legally-binding migration cap. Now, it may be bollocks, as bollocks as Boris' manifesto, but at least he has committed, so it will be exposed as a u-turn if abandoned. Kemi has given nothing except some punchy commentary. That's a Spectator writer, not a PM.
    Or alternatively, all Jenrick is talking about is numbers....... Not bothering with the thorny but necessary subject of who is most likely to be able to integrate into UK society.
    So what is Kemi saying then? Quotas from Muslim countries? Not a chance in hell. She has made absolutely no policy proposals of any kind to my knowledge.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,053
    theProle said:

    MaxPB said:

    I think Kemi is unfit to be leader having just read her comments on maternity leave/pay. It's absolutely idiotic, in a country where we have a birth rate lower than the replacement rate we need for families to have an extra child, not have fewer because they can't afford the time off.

    If anything maternity pay and early years childcare funding needs to go up substantially so that parents don't feel as though they can't have 2 kids instead of 1 or decide that 2 is enough and not go for a third one etc...

    I don't know if it plays well with members, perhaps it does because they're all old fuckers who "didn't have that in our day and we raised a family of 17 on a single salary" but this shows she doesn't understand the major demographic issue facing the nation and a big driver of migration in the last 10 years.

    The best fix for larger family sizes is to sort the housing market, so buying a decent house doesn't require both parents to be out at work and the child dumped in childcare from 6 months old.

    Maternity pay is a side-show compared to this.

    Don't forget the people at the bottom - we need millions more houses in council-style housing too. There is or was an incentive for couples in that range to have at least 3 children. Whatever the child benefit limit, it's that third child qualifies/qualified you for a 3-bed house (and probably garden) rather than a 2-bed flat in a huge block.

    And then the couple splits up, Dad probably gets pushed out to make way for the new boyfriend, and Dad needs a place that will accommodate the three chdren for 50% of the time.

    Good eve, everybody

  • Okay, I love Tom Tugendhat even more.

    I've only discovered this story from 2022

    Security minister and Tory MP Tom Tugendhat has denied using his phone while driving his car.

    He was spotted in Wandsworth High Street on 4 April by Met Police officer PC Joseph Robson, who pulled him over.

    In a written guilty plea, the Tonbridge and Malling MP said he was holding the phone but not using it and had later taken a driving course.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-63573882

    Reminds me of when Bill Clinton said he did NOT inhale the joint he was holding.

    Slightly MORE believable than Tom Tugendhat saying he was driving while holding a phone he was NOT using.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Israel has just killed ANOTHER Hezbollah leader

    War is horrific, but as horrors go this is impressively efficient

    But it also begs the question: why was this chilling accuracy not used against Hamas, why instead did they carpet bomb civilians?

    Because Bibi wants to commit genocide/ethnic cleansing in the occupied territories, if you follow that, he's not interested in a greater Israel.
    Yes, that is my suspicion
    If you look at some of the stuff his cabinet have said publicly, such as the below, you can only imagine what they say/do in private.

    The EU, France and UK have condemned a senior Israeli minister for suggesting it might be “justified and moral” to starve people in Gaza.

    Israel’s finance minister, Bezalel Smotrich, sparked international outrage after he said on Wednesday: “No one in the world will allow us to starve 2 million people, even though it might be justified and moral in order to free the hostages.”

    Separately on Wednesday, Israel’s Channel 12 broadcasted security camera footage that reportedly showed the sexual assault of a Palestinian detainee from Gaza at Sde Teiman military detention camp. Last week, the detention of the soldiers accused of involvement in the alleged abuse sparked violent riots.


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/aug/08/israel-finance-minister-bezalel-smotrich-gaza-starve-2m-people-comments
    I said at the beginning I suspected this of Israel. It’s the only logic behind their behaviour in Gaza - a “final solution” to the Palestinian problem. Just cleanse them entirely: make Gaza uninhabitable and terrify them out of the West Bank

    And if you’re an Israeli looking at October 7 I can see why you might feel that way. The Jewish state cannot tolerate the mere possibility it might happen again - it is existential. AND if you’re going to do this you have to get it done before Iran acquires nukes

    So: this will end either with the elimination of any Palestinian homeland or the destruction of Israel
    Israel can't defeat Hamas by invading and occupying the Palestinian Authority any more than the UK could defeat the IRA by invading and occupying the Republic of Ireland and West Belfast
    Of course they can, if they press their advantages until the enemies surrender unconditionally.

    Just as we pressed our advantages until the Nazis surrendered unconditionally.
    Just as the Americans pressed theirs until the Japanese surrendered unconditionally.
    Just as the Sri Lankans pressed theirs until the Tamil Tigers surrendered unconditionally.

    Unconditional surrender ends wars.
    Ethnic cleansing also ends historic conflicts. Cf Turkey/Greece

    This is what Israel is pursuing. They just can’t say it
    Indeed they can’t.

    The Gaza Strip would make for some first class seaside real estate when redeveloped.
    Pretty much everyone with coastline in the Middle East is now planning to copy Dubai and build hotels on the beaches.

    Tourism should be a large attraction for the whole region, especially as it’s mostly off-season for European visitors, somewhere to find sun in winter.
    If it dropped the violence and distaste for alcohol and women then the Middle East would be beautifully situated to make a fortune from tourism.

    Sharm el-Sheikh was itself of course developed by Israel while it occupied the land, and it became a very successful tourist area which it remains to this day after Egypt accepted peace with Israel.

    Egypt accepting it had lost the war ended the cycle of violence with Israel and has led to much more prosperity since, even if not great amounts of freedom. Far better than what the Palestinians have under Hamas.
    Sharm-el-Sheikh is lovely, a good example of what they could all be doing. If you stop the war, you start attracting tourists.

    Even the Saudis are preparing to relax rules on alcohol and women’s dress in their new resort city on the Red Sea. It’ll be a ‘closed city’ with no locals there. Just across the sea from Sharm, as it happens.
    NARRATOR: Sharm-el-Sheikh is not "lovely", unless you you enjoy sterile, dessicated resort-cities inexplicably plonked in hostile desert by a windy coast
    If all you want to do is lie on the beach for a week in the middle of British winter…

    Remember that most Brits have to experience winter, rather than decamp to the brothels of Bangkok for months on end.
    What fools they are

    I can barely tolerate September in the New British Climate (TM)

    I just walked out to buy some food and a wintry wind was gusting down Parkway and everyone was hunched in winter coats. "Feels like" about 9C? This is Sept 29
    Barely coat weather. Very much enjoying the greens turning to golds and anticipating a lovely Autumn here.
    In a world in which school holidays were not an issue, I wouldn't mind missing the British January. But I don't think the Middle East would ever come top of the list, or even seem preferable to Britain, climatically.
    The trick is to find a way of spending the summer in the UK, and the winter somewhere hotter, either the Middle East or Southern Hemisphere.

    An old friend of mine had the best job ever, he was a professional gliding instructor who for two decades was in the UK in the summer and New Zealand in the ‘winter’. Oh, and ‘work’ in most cases meant going flying at least five days a week, and being paid to do so.
    A colleague of mines son is a pilot. In the summer he flies Canadians to remote fishing and hunting lodges in a float plane, then when the weather changes he flies supplies to remote missions in the DRC, including occasional scrapes with various guerilla.

    He has some amazing photos and stories.
    Awesome. If I lived my life again I think that’s what I would do.

    The problem is that a commercial pilot’s licence costs close to £100k, and you can’t get a student loan for it. Most pilots are financed by the bank of Mum and Dad, who often remortgage their houses to do so.

    Meanwhile, the airlines complain about a pilot shortage while sponsoring no more than dozens of pilots every year.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,472

    Sandpit said:

    Crikey.

    Former deputy prime minister Sir Oliver Dowden has become the most senior ally of Rishi Sunak to be interviewed in the official investigation into betting on the date of the general election, Sky News understands.

    He follows Mr Sunak's former parliamentary aide Craig Williams and former Downing Street chief of staff Liam Booth-Smith in being questioned by the Gambling Commission, the statutory body that regulates betting in the UK.

    Mr Sunak has not yet been interviewed, Sky News understands, though "numerous people" including Conservative Party officials have been.

    The inquiry - launched in June - is set to continue for another three to six months.

    News of Sir Oliver's interview, along with the seizing of "hundreds of documents" from Tory HQ by the commission, has emerged on the day the Conservative Party Conference opened in Birmingham.

    Ironically, the Gambling Commission's head office, on the fourth floor of Victoria Square House, Victoria Square, Birmingham, is just a half-mile, 10-minute walk from the ICC, where the Tory conference is taking place.


    https://news.sky.com/story/former-deputy-pm-oliver-dowden-interviewed-in-election-day-betting-probe-13224498

    How much money is being spent investigating this, vs how much money was actually staked on the election date?

    It shouldn’t take long to work out if anyone put money on a certain date, and then afterwards was in the meeting where they lobbied for that date, which would certainly be a problem.

    It’s possible that people had an idea of when the date would be, from inside information, but it wasn’t the date until the PM actually announced it. That’s no different from a horse trainer giving tips to their friends about which are the fit and which are the lame animals.
    I suspect it is like Operation Branchform which branched out to other things following the investigation of the original allegations.

    As OGH said to me earlier on this week, it wouldn't shock him to know these people were betting on other things given how much of PB's traffic comes from Westminster IP addresses.

    There's a very fine line on the ethics of betting on private/embargoed polling.
    Are you and the other mods worried that it could bring quite a lot of scrutiny and press interest to the site? If political betting becomes a bit of a stick to beat politicians with, might Political Betting feel a bit of stick as well?
    I am limited to what I can say but we're already on the radar, so modest fellow tipped a July election at 20/1.

    Did I have inside information? Nope, I just thought Sunak looked knackered.
    I don't think we still know any other reason that Sunak called the election.

    Maybe it was just to spoil Starmers honeymoon with the recess and silly season. If so, it worked.
  • So I've discovered something really shocking about Kemi Badenoch which should disqualify her from being an MP let alone Tory leader or PM.

    Her husband works Deutsche Bank.
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Israel has just killed ANOTHER Hezbollah leader

    War is horrific, but as horrors go this is impressively efficient

    But it also begs the question: why was this chilling accuracy not used against Hamas, why instead did they carpet bomb civilians?

    Because Bibi wants to commit genocide/ethnic cleansing in the occupied territories, if you follow that, he's not interested in a greater Israel.
    Yes, that is my suspicion
    If you look at some of the stuff his cabinet have said publicly, such as the below, you can only imagine what they say/do in private.

    The EU, France and UK have condemned a senior Israeli minister for suggesting it might be “justified and moral” to starve people in Gaza.

    Israel’s finance minister, Bezalel Smotrich, sparked international outrage after he said on Wednesday: “No one in the world will allow us to starve 2 million people, even though it might be justified and moral in order to free the hostages.”

    Separately on Wednesday, Israel’s Channel 12 broadcasted security camera footage that reportedly showed the sexual assault of a Palestinian detainee from Gaza at Sde Teiman military detention camp. Last week, the detention of the soldiers accused of involvement in the alleged abuse sparked violent riots.


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/aug/08/israel-finance-minister-bezalel-smotrich-gaza-starve-2m-people-comments
    I said at the beginning I suspected this of Israel. It’s the only logic behind their behaviour in Gaza - a “final solution” to the Palestinian problem. Just cleanse them entirely: make Gaza uninhabitable and terrify them out of the West Bank

    And if you’re an Israeli looking at October 7 I can see why you might feel that way. The Jewish state cannot tolerate the mere possibility it might happen again - it is existential. AND if you’re going to do this you have to get it done before Iran acquires nukes

    So: this will end either with the elimination of any Palestinian homeland or the destruction of Israel
    Israel can't defeat Hamas by invading and occupying the Palestinian Authority any more than the UK could defeat the IRA by invading and occupying the Republic of Ireland and West Belfast
    Of course they can, if they press their advantages until the enemies surrender unconditionally.

    Just as we pressed our advantages until the Nazis surrendered unconditionally.
    Just as the Americans pressed theirs until the Japanese surrendered unconditionally.
    Just as the Sri Lankans pressed theirs until the Tamil Tigers surrendered unconditionally.

    Unconditional surrender ends wars.
    Ethnic cleansing also ends historic conflicts. Cf Turkey/Greece

    This is what Israel is pursuing. They just can’t say it
    Indeed they can’t.

    The Gaza Strip would make for some first class seaside real estate when redeveloped.
    Pretty much everyone with coastline in the Middle East is now planning to copy Dubai and build hotels on the beaches.

    Tourism should be a large attraction for the whole region, especially as it’s mostly off-season for European visitors, somewhere to find sun in winter.
    If it dropped the violence and distaste for alcohol and women then the Middle East would be beautifully situated to make a fortune from tourism.

    Sharm el-Sheikh was itself of course developed by Israel while it occupied the land, and it became a very successful tourist area which it remains to this day after Egypt accepted peace with Israel.

    Egypt accepting it had lost the war ended the cycle of violence with Israel and has led to much more prosperity since, even if not great amounts of freedom. Far better than what the Palestinians have under Hamas.
    Sharm-el-Sheikh is lovely, a good example of what they could all be doing. If you stop the war, you start attracting tourists.

    Even the Saudis are preparing to relax rules on alcohol and women’s dress in their new resort city on the Red Sea. It’ll be a ‘closed city’ with no locals there. Just across the sea from Sharm, as it happens.
    NARRATOR: Sharm-el-Sheikh is not "lovely", unless you you enjoy sterile, dessicated resort-cities inexplicably plonked in hostile desert by a windy coast
    If all you want to do is lie on the beach for a week in the middle of British winter…

    Remember that most Brits have to experience winter, rather than decamp to the brothels of Bangkok for months on end.
    What fools they are

    I can barely tolerate September in the New British Climate (TM)

    I just walked out to buy some food and a wintry wind was gusting down Parkway and everyone was hunched in winter coats. "Feels like" about 9C? This is Sept 29
    The cold weather is God's reminder to burn more Catholics at the stake.

    My fractious mood might be related to this: yesterday I discovered that you're never too old to learn new things

    I went out on the lash with some old uni friends. The evening conclued at chucking out time at the Groucho. Around 1am we came up with a new game of: "inventing hideous cocktails for the other person to drink"

    From this I have learned: "never start inventing cocktails, at the Groucho, at 1am"
    The candied salmon Martini definitely a wrong ‘un.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,979
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Israel has just killed ANOTHER Hezbollah leader

    War is horrific, but as horrors go this is impressively efficient

    But it also begs the question: why was this chilling accuracy not used against Hamas, why instead did they carpet bomb civilians?

    Because Bibi wants to commit genocide/ethnic cleansing in the occupied territories, if you follow that, he's not interested in a greater Israel.
    Yes, that is my suspicion
    If you look at some of the stuff his cabinet have said publicly, such as the below, you can only imagine what they say/do in private.

    The EU, France and UK have condemned a senior Israeli minister for suggesting it might be “justified and moral” to starve people in Gaza.

    Israel’s finance minister, Bezalel Smotrich, sparked international outrage after he said on Wednesday: “No one in the world will allow us to starve 2 million people, even though it might be justified and moral in order to free the hostages.”

    Separately on Wednesday, Israel’s Channel 12 broadcasted security camera footage that reportedly showed the sexual assault of a Palestinian detainee from Gaza at Sde Teiman military detention camp. Last week, the detention of the soldiers accused of involvement in the alleged abuse sparked violent riots.


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/aug/08/israel-finance-minister-bezalel-smotrich-gaza-starve-2m-people-comments
    I said at the beginning I suspected this of Israel. It’s the only logic behind their behaviour in Gaza - a “final solution” to the Palestinian problem. Just cleanse them entirely: make Gaza uninhabitable and terrify them out of the West Bank

    And if you’re an Israeli looking at October 7 I can see why you might feel that way. The Jewish state cannot tolerate the mere possibility it might happen again - it is existential. AND if you’re going to do this you have to get it done before Iran acquires nukes

    So: this will end either with the elimination of any Palestinian homeland or the destruction of Israel
    Israel can't defeat Hamas by invading and occupying the Palestinian Authority any more than the UK could defeat the IRA by invading and occupying the Republic of Ireland and West Belfast
    Of course they can, if they press their advantages until the enemies surrender unconditionally.

    Just as we pressed our advantages until the Nazis surrendered unconditionally.
    Just as the Americans pressed theirs until the Japanese surrendered unconditionally.
    Just as the Sri Lankans pressed theirs until the Tamil Tigers surrendered unconditionally.

    Unconditional surrender ends wars.
    Ethnic cleansing also ends historic conflicts. Cf Turkey/Greece

    This is what Israel is pursuing. They just can’t say it
    Indeed they can’t.

    The Gaza Strip would make for some first class seaside real estate when redeveloped.
    Pretty much everyone with coastline in the Middle East is now planning to copy Dubai and build hotels on the beaches.

    Tourism should be a large attraction for the whole region, especially as it’s mostly off-season for European visitors, somewhere to find sun in winter.
    If it dropped the violence and distaste for alcohol and women then the Middle East would be beautifully situated to make a fortune from tourism.

    Sharm el-Sheikh was itself of course developed by Israel while it occupied the land, and it became a very successful tourist area which it remains to this day after Egypt accepted peace with Israel.

    Egypt accepting it had lost the war ended the cycle of violence with Israel and has led to much more prosperity since, even if not great amounts of freedom. Far better than what the Palestinians have under Hamas.
    Sharm-el-Sheikh is lovely, a good example of what they could all be doing. If you stop the war, you start attracting tourists.

    Even the Saudis are preparing to relax rules on alcohol and women’s dress in their new resort city on the Red Sea. It’ll be a ‘closed city’ with no locals there. Just across the sea from Sharm, as it happens.
    NARRATOR: Sharm-el-Sheikh is not "lovely", unless you you enjoy sterile, dessicated resort-cities inexplicably plonked in hostile desert by a windy coast
    If all you want to do is lie on the beach for a week in the middle of British winter…

    Remember that most Brits have to experience winter, rather than decamp to the brothels of Bangkok for months on end.
    What fools they are

    I can barely tolerate September in the New British Climate (TM)

    I just walked out to buy some food and a wintry wind was gusting down Parkway and everyone was hunched in winter coats. "Feels like" about 9C? This is Sept 29
    The cold weather is God's reminder to burn more Catholics at the stake.
    Mary Tudor did the burnings to Protestants instead
    And Lady Whiteadder insisted Nathaniel sat on a spike.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,472
    edited September 29
    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Israel has just killed ANOTHER Hezbollah leader

    War is horrific, but as horrors go this is impressively efficient

    But it also begs the question: why was this chilling accuracy not used against Hamas, why instead did they carpet bomb civilians?

    Because Bibi wants to commit genocide/ethnic cleansing in the occupied territories, if you follow that, he's not interested in a greater Israel.
    Yes, that is my suspicion
    If you look at some of the stuff his cabinet have said publicly, such as the below, you can only imagine what they say/do in private.

    The EU, France and UK have condemned a senior Israeli minister for suggesting it might be “justified and moral” to starve people in Gaza.

    Israel’s finance minister, Bezalel Smotrich, sparked international outrage after he said on Wednesday: “No one in the world will allow us to starve 2 million people, even though it might be justified and moral in order to free the hostages.”

    Separately on Wednesday, Israel’s Channel 12 broadcasted security camera footage that reportedly showed the sexual assault of a Palestinian detainee from Gaza at Sde Teiman military detention camp. Last week, the detention of the soldiers accused of involvement in the alleged abuse sparked violent riots.


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/aug/08/israel-finance-minister-bezalel-smotrich-gaza-starve-2m-people-comments
    I said at the beginning I suspected this of Israel. It’s the only logic behind their behaviour in Gaza - a “final solution” to the Palestinian problem. Just cleanse them entirely: make Gaza uninhabitable and terrify them out of the West Bank

    And if you’re an Israeli looking at October 7 I can see why you might feel that way. The Jewish state cannot tolerate the mere possibility it might happen again - it is existential. AND if you’re going to do this you have to get it done before Iran acquires nukes

    So: this will end either with the elimination of any Palestinian homeland or the destruction of Israel
    Israel can't defeat Hamas by invading and occupying the Palestinian Authority any more than the UK could defeat the IRA by invading and occupying the Republic of Ireland and West Belfast
    Of course they can, if they press their advantages until the enemies surrender unconditionally.

    Just as we pressed our advantages until the Nazis surrendered unconditionally.
    Just as the Americans pressed theirs until the Japanese surrendered unconditionally.
    Just as the Sri Lankans pressed theirs until the Tamil Tigers surrendered unconditionally.

    Unconditional surrender ends wars.
    Ethnic cleansing also ends historic conflicts. Cf Turkey/Greece

    This is what Israel is pursuing. They just can’t say it
    Indeed they can’t.

    The Gaza Strip would make for some first class seaside real estate when redeveloped.
    Pretty much everyone with coastline in the Middle East is now planning to copy Dubai and build hotels on the beaches.

    Tourism should be a large attraction for the whole region, especially as it’s mostly off-season for European visitors, somewhere to find sun in winter.
    If it dropped the violence and distaste for alcohol and women then the Middle East would be beautifully situated to make a fortune from tourism.

    Sharm el-Sheikh was itself of course developed by Israel while it occupied the land, and it became a very successful tourist area which it remains to this day after Egypt accepted peace with Israel.

    Egypt accepting it had lost the war ended the cycle of violence with Israel and has led to much more prosperity since, even if not great amounts of freedom. Far better than what the Palestinians have under Hamas.
    Sharm-el-Sheikh is lovely, a good example of what they could all be doing. If you stop the war, you start attracting tourists.

    Even the Saudis are preparing to relax rules on alcohol and women’s dress in their new resort city on the Red Sea. It’ll be a ‘closed city’ with no locals there. Just across the sea from Sharm, as it happens.
    NARRATOR: Sharm-el-Sheikh is not "lovely", unless you you enjoy sterile, dessicated resort-cities inexplicably plonked in hostile desert by a windy coast
    If all you want to do is lie on the beach for a week in the middle of British winter…

    Remember that most Brits have to experience winter, rather than decamp to the brothels of Bangkok for months on end.
    What fools they are

    I can barely tolerate September in the New British Climate (TM)

    I just walked out to buy some food and a wintry wind was gusting down Parkway and everyone was hunched in winter coats. "Feels like" about 9C? This is Sept 29
    Barely coat weather. Very much enjoying the greens turning to golds and anticipating a lovely Autumn here.
    In a world in which school holidays were not an issue, I wouldn't mind missing the British January. But I don't think the Middle East would ever come top of the list, or even seem preferable to Britain, climatically.
    The trick is to find a way of spending the summer in the UK, and the winter somewhere hotter, either the Middle East or Southern Hemisphere.

    An old friend of mine had the best job ever, he was a professional gliding instructor who for two decades was in the UK in the summer and New Zealand in the ‘winter’. Oh, and ‘work’ in most cases meant going flying at least five days a week, and being paid to do so.
    A colleague of mines son is a pilot. In the summer he flies Canadians to remote fishing and hunting lodges in a float plane, then when the weather changes he flies supplies to remote missions in the DRC, including occasional scrapes with various guerilla.

    He has some amazing photos and stories.
    Awesome. If I lived my life again I think that’s what I would do.

    The problem is that a commercial pilot’s licence costs close to £100k, and you can’t get a student loan for it. Most pilots are financed by the bank of Mum and Dad, who often remortgage their houses to do so.

    Meanwhile, the airlines complain about a pilot shortage while sponsoring no more than dozens of pilots every year.
    His are small light planes, the Canadians in effect pay for the mission work.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,668

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Israel has just killed ANOTHER Hezbollah leader

    War is horrific, but as horrors go this is impressively efficient

    But it also begs the question: why was this chilling accuracy not used against Hamas, why instead did they carpet bomb civilians?

    Because Bibi wants to commit genocide/ethnic cleansing in the occupied territories, if you follow that, he's not interested in a greater Israel.
    Yes, that is my suspicion
    If you look at some of the stuff his cabinet have said publicly, such as the below, you can only imagine what they say/do in private.

    The EU, France and UK have condemned a senior Israeli minister for suggesting it might be “justified and moral” to starve people in Gaza.

    Israel’s finance minister, Bezalel Smotrich, sparked international outrage after he said on Wednesday: “No one in the world will allow us to starve 2 million people, even though it might be justified and moral in order to free the hostages.”

    Separately on Wednesday, Israel’s Channel 12 broadcasted security camera footage that reportedly showed the sexual assault of a Palestinian detainee from Gaza at Sde Teiman military detention camp. Last week, the detention of the soldiers accused of involvement in the alleged abuse sparked violent riots.


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/aug/08/israel-finance-minister-bezalel-smotrich-gaza-starve-2m-people-comments
    I said at the beginning I suspected this of Israel. It’s the only logic behind their behaviour in Gaza - a “final solution” to the Palestinian problem. Just cleanse them entirely: make Gaza uninhabitable and terrify them out of the West Bank

    And if you’re an Israeli looking at October 7 I can see why you might feel that way. The Jewish state cannot tolerate the mere possibility it might happen again - it is existential. AND if you’re going to do this you have to get it done before Iran acquires nukes

    So: this will end either with the elimination of any Palestinian homeland or the destruction of Israel
    Israel can't defeat Hamas by invading and occupying the Palestinian Authority any more than the UK could defeat the IRA by invading and occupying the Republic of Ireland and West Belfast
    Of course they can, if they press their advantages until the enemies surrender unconditionally.

    Just as we pressed our advantages until the Nazis surrendered unconditionally.
    Just as the Americans pressed theirs until the Japanese surrendered unconditionally.
    Just as the Sri Lankans pressed theirs until the Tamil Tigers surrendered unconditionally.

    Unconditional surrender ends wars.
    Ethnic cleansing also ends historic conflicts. Cf Turkey/Greece

    This is what Israel is pursuing. They just can’t say it
    Indeed they can’t.

    The Gaza Strip would make for some first class seaside real estate when redeveloped.
    Pretty much everyone with coastline in the Middle East is now planning to copy Dubai and build hotels on the beaches.

    Tourism should be a large attraction for the whole region, especially as it’s mostly off-season for European visitors, somewhere to find sun in winter.
    If it dropped the violence and distaste for alcohol and women then the Middle East would be beautifully situated to make a fortune from tourism.

    Sharm el-Sheikh was itself of course developed by Israel while it occupied the land, and it became a very successful tourist area which it remains to this day after Egypt accepted peace with Israel.

    Egypt accepting it had lost the war ended the cycle of violence with Israel and has led to much more prosperity since, even if not great amounts of freedom. Far better than what the Palestinians have under Hamas.
    Sharm-el-Sheikh is lovely, a good example of what they could all be doing. If you stop the war, you start attracting tourists.

    Even the Saudis are preparing to relax rules on alcohol and women’s dress in their new resort city on the Red Sea. It’ll be a ‘closed city’ with no locals there. Just across the sea from Sharm, as it happens.
    NARRATOR: Sharm-el-Sheikh is not "lovely", unless you you enjoy sterile, dessicated resort-cities inexplicably plonked in hostile desert by a windy coast
    If all you want to do is lie on the beach for a week in the middle of British winter…

    Remember that most Brits have to experience winter, rather than decamp to the brothels of Bangkok for months on end.
    What fools they are

    I can barely tolerate September in the New British Climate (TM)

    I just walked out to buy some food and a wintry wind was gusting down Parkway and everyone was hunched in winter coats. "Feels like" about 9C? This is Sept 29
    The cold weather is God's reminder to burn more Catholics at the stake.

    My fractious mood might be related to this: yesterday I discovered that you're never too old to learn new things

    I went out on the lash with some old uni friends. The evening conclued at chucking out time at the Groucho. Around 1am we came up with a new game of: "inventing hideous cocktails for the other person to drink"

    From this I have learned: "never start inventing cocktails, at the Groucho, at 1am"
    The annoying thing is you're indoors and you think oh it looks nice outside and you go out and you find, fuck it is cold, I need to put on my The North Face arctic gear.
    I'm sure in the past it only got "proper cold" in late October. That was always the time I would fish out winter coats. Scarves and hats. It was OK then. Late October. Halloween coming. Fireworks and sparklers. Apple bobbing. Misty Bloomsbury mornings, like echoes of the Holborn marshes beneath

    Not fucking September, thanksvmuch
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Israel has just killed ANOTHER Hezbollah leader

    War is horrific, but as horrors go this is impressively efficient

    But it also begs the question: why was this chilling accuracy not used against Hamas, why instead did they carpet bomb civilians?

    Because Bibi wants to commit genocide/ethnic cleansing in the occupied territories, if you follow that, he's not interested in a greater Israel.
    Yes, that is my suspicion
    If you look at some of the stuff his cabinet have said publicly, such as the below, you can only imagine what they say/do in private.

    The EU, France and UK have condemned a senior Israeli minister for suggesting it might be “justified and moral” to starve people in Gaza.

    Israel’s finance minister, Bezalel Smotrich, sparked international outrage after he said on Wednesday: “No one in the world will allow us to starve 2 million people, even though it might be justified and moral in order to free the hostages.”

    Separately on Wednesday, Israel’s Channel 12 broadcasted security camera footage that reportedly showed the sexual assault of a Palestinian detainee from Gaza at Sde Teiman military detention camp. Last week, the detention of the soldiers accused of involvement in the alleged abuse sparked violent riots.


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/aug/08/israel-finance-minister-bezalel-smotrich-gaza-starve-2m-people-comments
    I said at the beginning I suspected this of Israel. It’s the only logic behind their behaviour in Gaza - a “final solution” to the Palestinian problem. Just cleanse them entirely: make Gaza uninhabitable and terrify them out of the West Bank

    And if you’re an Israeli looking at October 7 I can see why you might feel that way. The Jewish state cannot tolerate the mere possibility it might happen again - it is existential. AND if you’re going to do this you have to get it done before Iran acquires nukes

    So: this will end either with the elimination of any Palestinian homeland or the destruction of Israel
    Israel can't defeat Hamas by invading and occupying the Palestinian Authority any more than the UK could defeat the IRA by invading and occupying the Republic of Ireland and West Belfast
    Of course they can, if they press their advantages until the enemies surrender unconditionally.

    Just as we pressed our advantages until the Nazis surrendered unconditionally.
    Just as the Americans pressed theirs until the Japanese surrendered unconditionally.
    Just as the Sri Lankans pressed theirs until the Tamil Tigers surrendered unconditionally.

    Unconditional surrender ends wars.
    Ethnic cleansing also ends historic conflicts. Cf Turkey/Greece

    This is what Israel is pursuing. They just can’t say it
    Indeed they can’t.

    The Gaza Strip would make for some first class seaside real estate when redeveloped.
    Pretty much everyone with coastline in the Middle East is now planning to copy Dubai and build hotels on the beaches.

    Tourism should be a large attraction for the whole region, especially as it’s mostly off-season for European visitors, somewhere to find sun in winter.
    If it dropped the violence and distaste for alcohol and women then the Middle East would be beautifully situated to make a fortune from tourism.

    Sharm el-Sheikh was itself of course developed by Israel while it occupied the land, and it became a very successful tourist area which it remains to this day after Egypt accepted peace with Israel.

    Egypt accepting it had lost the war ended the cycle of violence with Israel and has led to much more prosperity since, even if not great amounts of freedom. Far better than what the Palestinians have under Hamas.
    Sharm-el-Sheikh is lovely, a good example of what they could all be doing. If you stop the war, you start attracting tourists.

    Even the Saudis are preparing to relax rules on alcohol and women’s dress in their new resort city on the Red Sea. It’ll be a ‘closed city’ with no locals there. Just across the sea from Sharm, as it happens.
    NARRATOR: Sharm-el-Sheikh is not "lovely", unless you you enjoy sterile, dessicated resort-cities inexplicably plonked in hostile desert by a windy coast
    If all you want to do is lie on the beach for a week in the middle of British winter…

    Remember that most Brits have to experience winter, rather than decamp to the brothels of Bangkok for months on end.
    What fools they are

    I can barely tolerate September in the New British Climate (TM)

    I just walked out to buy some food and a wintry wind was gusting down Parkway and everyone was hunched in winter coats. "Feels like" about 9C? This is Sept 29
    Barely coat weather. Very much enjoying the greens turning to golds and anticipating a lovely Autumn here.
    In a world in which school holidays were not an issue, I wouldn't mind missing the British January. But I don't think the Middle East would ever come top of the list, or even seem preferable to Britain, climatically.
    The trick is to find a way of spending the summer in the UK, and the winter somewhere hotter, either the Middle East or Southern Hemisphere.

    An old friend of mine had the best job ever, he was a professional gliding instructor who for two decades was in the UK in the summer and New Zealand in the ‘winter’. Oh, and ‘work’ in most cases meant going flying at least five days a week, and being paid to do so.
    A colleague of mines son is a pilot. In the summer he flies Canadians to remote fishing and hunting lodges in a float plane, then when the weather changes he flies supplies to remote missions in the DRC, including occasional scrapes with various guerilla.

    He has some amazing photos and stories.
    Awesome. If I lived my life again I think that’s what I would do.

    The problem is that a commercial pilot’s licence costs close to £100k, and you can’t get a student loan for it. Most pilots are financed by the bank of Mum and Dad, who often remortgage their houses to do so.

    Meanwhile, the airlines complain about a pilot shortage while sponsoring no more than dozens of pilots every year.
    His are small light planes, the Canadians pay for the mission work.
    Yep, much more fun than airline work.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,472

    So I've discovered something really shocking about Kemi Badenoch which should disqualify her from being an MP let alone Tory leader or PM.

    Her husband works Deutsche Bank.

    A financier husband makes no maternity pay so much more tolerable.
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Israel has just killed ANOTHER Hezbollah leader

    War is horrific, but as horrors go this is impressively efficient

    But it also begs the question: why was this chilling accuracy not used against Hamas, why instead did they carpet bomb civilians?

    Because Bibi wants to commit genocide/ethnic cleansing in the occupied territories, if you follow that, he's not interested in a greater Israel.
    Yes, that is my suspicion
    If you look at some of the stuff his cabinet have said publicly, such as the below, you can only imagine what they say/do in private.

    The EU, France and UK have condemned a senior Israeli minister for suggesting it might be “justified and moral” to starve people in Gaza.

    Israel’s finance minister, Bezalel Smotrich, sparked international outrage after he said on Wednesday: “No one in the world will allow us to starve 2 million people, even though it might be justified and moral in order to free the hostages.”

    Separately on Wednesday, Israel’s Channel 12 broadcasted security camera footage that reportedly showed the sexual assault of a Palestinian detainee from Gaza at Sde Teiman military detention camp. Last week, the detention of the soldiers accused of involvement in the alleged abuse sparked violent riots.


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/aug/08/israel-finance-minister-bezalel-smotrich-gaza-starve-2m-people-comments
    I said at the beginning I suspected this of Israel. It’s the only logic behind their behaviour in Gaza - a “final solution” to the Palestinian problem. Just cleanse them entirely: make Gaza uninhabitable and terrify them out of the West Bank

    And if you’re an Israeli looking at October 7 I can see why you might feel that way. The Jewish state cannot tolerate the mere possibility it might happen again - it is existential. AND if you’re going to do this you have to get it done before Iran acquires nukes

    So: this will end either with the elimination of any Palestinian homeland or the destruction of Israel
    Israel can't defeat Hamas by invading and occupying the Palestinian Authority any more than the UK could defeat the IRA by invading and occupying the Republic of Ireland and West Belfast
    Of course they can, if they press their advantages until the enemies surrender unconditionally.

    Just as we pressed our advantages until the Nazis surrendered unconditionally.
    Just as the Americans pressed theirs until the Japanese surrendered unconditionally.
    Just as the Sri Lankans pressed theirs until the Tamil Tigers surrendered unconditionally.

    Unconditional surrender ends wars.
    Ethnic cleansing also ends historic conflicts. Cf Turkey/Greece

    This is what Israel is pursuing. They just can’t say it
    Indeed they can’t.

    The Gaza Strip would make for some first class seaside real estate when redeveloped.
    Pretty much everyone with coastline in the Middle East is now planning to copy Dubai and build hotels on the beaches.

    Tourism should be a large attraction for the whole region, especially as it’s mostly off-season for European visitors, somewhere to find sun in winter.
    If it dropped the violence and distaste for alcohol and women then the Middle East would be beautifully situated to make a fortune from tourism.

    Sharm el-Sheikh was itself of course developed by Israel while it occupied the land, and it became a very successful tourist area which it remains to this day after Egypt accepted peace with Israel.

    Egypt accepting it had lost the war ended the cycle of violence with Israel and has led to much more prosperity since, even if not great amounts of freedom. Far better than what the Palestinians have under Hamas.
    Sharm-el-Sheikh is lovely, a good example of what they could all be doing. If you stop the war, you start attracting tourists.

    Even the Saudis are preparing to relax rules on alcohol and women’s dress in their new resort city on the Red Sea. It’ll be a ‘closed city’ with no locals there. Just across the sea from Sharm, as it happens.
    NARRATOR: Sharm-el-Sheikh is not "lovely", unless you you enjoy sterile, dessicated resort-cities inexplicably plonked in hostile desert by a windy coast
    If all you want to do is lie on the beach for a week in the middle of British winter…

    Remember that most Brits have to experience winter, rather than decamp to the brothels of Bangkok for months on end.
    What fools they are

    I can barely tolerate September in the New British Climate (TM)

    I just walked out to buy some food and a wintry wind was gusting down Parkway and everyone was hunched in winter coats. "Feels like" about 9C? This is Sept 29
    The cold weather is God's reminder to burn more Catholics at the stake.

    My fractious mood might be related to this: yesterday I discovered that you're never too old to learn new things

    I went out on the lash with some old uni friends. The evening conclued at chucking out time at the Groucho. Around 1am we came up with a new game of: "inventing hideous cocktails for the other person to drink"

    From this I have learned: "never start inventing cocktails, at the Groucho, at 1am"
    The annoying thing is you're indoors and you think oh it looks nice outside and you go out and you find, fuck it is cold, I need to put on my The North Face arctic gear.
    I'm sure in the past it only got "proper cold" in late October. That was always the time I would fish out winter coats. Scarves and hats. It was OK then. Late October. Halloween coming. Fireworks and sparklers. Apple bobbing. Misty Bloomsbury mornings, like echoes of the Holborn marshes beneath

    Not fucking September, thanksvmuch
    Exactly.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,700
    AnneJGP said:

    theProle said:

    MaxPB said:

    I think Kemi is unfit to be leader having just read her comments on maternity leave/pay. It's absolutely idiotic, in a country where we have a birth rate lower than the replacement rate we need for families to have an extra child, not have fewer because they can't afford the time off.

    If anything maternity pay and early years childcare funding needs to go up substantially so that parents don't feel as though they can't have 2 kids instead of 1 or decide that 2 is enough and not go for a third one etc...

    I don't know if it plays well with members, perhaps it does because they're all old fuckers who "didn't have that in our day and we raised a family of 17 on a single salary" but this shows she doesn't understand the major demographic issue facing the nation and a big driver of migration in the last 10 years.

    The best fix for larger family sizes is to sort the housing market, so buying a decent house doesn't require both parents to be out at work and the child dumped in childcare from 6 months old.

    Maternity pay is a side-show compared to this.

    Don't forget the people at the bottom - we need millions more houses in council-style housing too. There is or was an incentive for couples in that range to have at least 3 children. Whatever the child benefit limit, it's that third child qualifies/qualified you for a 3-bed house (and probably garden) rather than a 2-bed flat in a huge block.

    And then the couple splits up, Dad probably gets pushed out to make way for the new boyfriend, and Dad needs a place that will accommodate the three chdren for 50% of the time.

    Good eve, everybody

    The system has been points-based since the time of Thatcher approx (I think), which means dad gets ignored if he does not have custody or a pre-existing tenancy.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    Man United a goal down and a man down, and it’s not even half time yet.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,668

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Israel has just killed ANOTHER Hezbollah leader

    War is horrific, but as horrors go this is impressively efficient

    But it also begs the question: why was this chilling accuracy not used against Hamas, why instead did they carpet bomb civilians?

    Because Bibi wants to commit genocide/ethnic cleansing in the occupied territories, if you follow that, he's not interested in a greater Israel.
    Yes, that is my suspicion
    If you look at some of the stuff his cabinet have said publicly, such as the below, you can only imagine what they say/do in private.

    The EU, France and UK have condemned a senior Israeli minister for suggesting it might be “justified and moral” to starve people in Gaza.

    Israel’s finance minister, Bezalel Smotrich, sparked international outrage after he said on Wednesday: “No one in the world will allow us to starve 2 million people, even though it might be justified and moral in order to free the hostages.”

    Separately on Wednesday, Israel’s Channel 12 broadcasted security camera footage that reportedly showed the sexual assault of a Palestinian detainee from Gaza at Sde Teiman military detention camp. Last week, the detention of the soldiers accused of involvement in the alleged abuse sparked violent riots.


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/aug/08/israel-finance-minister-bezalel-smotrich-gaza-starve-2m-people-comments
    I said at the beginning I suspected this of Israel. It’s the only logic behind their behaviour in Gaza - a “final solution” to the Palestinian problem. Just cleanse them entirely: make Gaza uninhabitable and terrify them out of the West Bank

    And if you’re an Israeli looking at October 7 I can see why you might feel that way. The Jewish state cannot tolerate the mere possibility it might happen again - it is existential. AND if you’re going to do this you have to get it done before Iran acquires nukes

    So: this will end either with the elimination of any Palestinian homeland or the destruction of Israel
    Israel can't defeat Hamas by invading and occupying the Palestinian Authority any more than the UK could defeat the IRA by invading and occupying the Republic of Ireland and West Belfast
    Of course they can, if they press their advantages until the enemies surrender unconditionally.

    Just as we pressed our advantages until the Nazis surrendered unconditionally.
    Just as the Americans pressed theirs until the Japanese surrendered unconditionally.
    Just as the Sri Lankans pressed theirs until the Tamil Tigers surrendered unconditionally.

    Unconditional surrender ends wars.
    Ethnic cleansing also ends historic conflicts. Cf Turkey/Greece

    This is what Israel is pursuing. They just can’t say it
    Indeed they can’t.

    The Gaza Strip would make for some first class seaside real estate when redeveloped.
    Pretty much everyone with coastline in the Middle East is now planning to copy Dubai and build hotels on the beaches.

    Tourism should be a large attraction for the whole region, especially as it’s mostly off-season for European visitors, somewhere to find sun in winter.
    If it dropped the violence and distaste for alcohol and women then the Middle East would be beautifully situated to make a fortune from tourism.

    Sharm el-Sheikh was itself of course developed by Israel while it occupied the land, and it became a very successful tourist area which it remains to this day after Egypt accepted peace with Israel.

    Egypt accepting it had lost the war ended the cycle of violence with Israel and has led to much more prosperity since, even if not great amounts of freedom. Far better than what the Palestinians have under Hamas.
    Sharm-el-Sheikh is lovely, a good example of what they could all be doing. If you stop the war, you start attracting tourists.

    Even the Saudis are preparing to relax rules on alcohol and women’s dress in their new resort city on the Red Sea. It’ll be a ‘closed city’ with no locals there. Just across the sea from Sharm, as it happens.
    NARRATOR: Sharm-el-Sheikh is not "lovely", unless you you enjoy sterile, dessicated resort-cities inexplicably plonked in hostile desert by a windy coast
    If all you want to do is lie on the beach for a week in the middle of British winter…

    Remember that most Brits have to experience winter, rather than decamp to the brothels of Bangkok for months on end.
    What fools they are

    I can barely tolerate September in the New British Climate (TM)

    I just walked out to buy some food and a wintry wind was gusting down Parkway and everyone was hunched in winter coats. "Feels like" about 9C? This is Sept 29
    The cold weather is God's reminder to burn more Catholics at the stake.

    My fractious mood might be related to this: yesterday I discovered that you're never too old to learn new things

    I went out on the lash with some old uni friends. The evening conclued at chucking out time at the Groucho. Around 1am we came up with a new game of: "inventing hideous cocktails for the other person to drink"

    From this I have learned: "never start inventing cocktails, at the Groucho, at 1am"
    The candied salmon Martini definitely a wrong ‘un.
    THE CANDIED SALMON

    Did I mention that, on here? Must have. It was a gift from the Vancouver Tourist Board, and I don't want to be mean but it is one of only two foodstuffs I have instantly spat out of my mouth in a reflex of disgust - the other was dried frog, in Cambodia

    Fermented silkworm larvae (Seoul, Korea) might have been worse but they never even reached my mouth. The smell. OMFG
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,700

    Sandpit said:

    Crikey.

    Former deputy prime minister Sir Oliver Dowden has become the most senior ally of Rishi Sunak to be interviewed in the official investigation into betting on the date of the general election, Sky News understands.

    He follows Mr Sunak's former parliamentary aide Craig Williams and former Downing Street chief of staff Liam Booth-Smith in being questioned by the Gambling Commission, the statutory body that regulates betting in the UK.

    Mr Sunak has not yet been interviewed, Sky News understands, though "numerous people" including Conservative Party officials have been.

    The inquiry - launched in June - is set to continue for another three to six months.

    News of Sir Oliver's interview, along with the seizing of "hundreds of documents" from Tory HQ by the commission, has emerged on the day the Conservative Party Conference opened in Birmingham.

    Ironically, the Gambling Commission's head office, on the fourth floor of Victoria Square House, Victoria Square, Birmingham, is just a half-mile, 10-minute walk from the ICC, where the Tory conference is taking place.


    https://news.sky.com/story/former-deputy-pm-oliver-dowden-interviewed-in-election-day-betting-probe-13224498

    How much money is being spent investigating this, vs how much money was actually staked on the election date?

    It shouldn’t take long to work out if anyone put money on a certain date, and then afterwards was in the meeting where they lobbied for that date, which would certainly be a problem.

    It’s possible that people had an idea of when the date would be, from inside information, but it wasn’t the date until the PM actually announced it. That’s no different from a horse trainer giving tips to their friends about which are the fit and which are the lame animals.
    I suspect it is like Operation Branchform which branched out to other things following the investigation of the original allegations.

    As OGH said to me earlier on this week, it wouldn't shock him to know these people were betting on other things given how much of PB's traffic comes from Westminster IP addresses.

    There's a very fine line on the ethics of betting on private/embargoed polling.
    Are you and the other mods worried that it could bring quite a lot of scrutiny and press interest to the site? If political betting becomes a bit of a stick to beat politicians with, might Political Betting feel a bit of stick as well?
    I could see some pols trying to use it as an excuse.

    PB on the blocklist at Westminster?
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,255
    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Israel has just killed ANOTHER Hezbollah leader

    War is horrific, but as horrors go this is impressively efficient

    But it also begs the question: why was this chilling accuracy not used against Hamas, why instead did they carpet bomb civilians?

    Because Bibi wants to commit genocide/ethnic cleansing in the occupied territories, if you follow that, he's not interested in a greater Israel.
    Yes, that is my suspicion
    If you look at some of the stuff his cabinet have said publicly, such as the below, you can only imagine what they say/do in private.

    The EU, France and UK have condemned a senior Israeli minister for suggesting it might be “justified and moral” to starve people in Gaza.

    Israel’s finance minister, Bezalel Smotrich, sparked international outrage after he said on Wednesday: “No one in the world will allow us to starve 2 million people, even though it might be justified and moral in order to free the hostages.”

    Separately on Wednesday, Israel’s Channel 12 broadcasted security camera footage that reportedly showed the sexual assault of a Palestinian detainee from Gaza at Sde Teiman military detention camp. Last week, the detention of the soldiers accused of involvement in the alleged abuse sparked violent riots.


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/aug/08/israel-finance-minister-bezalel-smotrich-gaza-starve-2m-people-comments
    I said at the beginning I suspected this of Israel. It’s the only logic behind their behaviour in Gaza - a “final solution” to the Palestinian problem. Just cleanse them entirely: make Gaza uninhabitable and terrify them out of the West Bank

    And if you’re an Israeli looking at October 7 I can see why you might feel that way. The Jewish state cannot tolerate the mere possibility it might happen again - it is existential. AND if you’re going to do this you have to get it done before Iran acquires nukes

    So: this will end either with the elimination of any Palestinian homeland or the destruction of Israel
    Israel can't defeat Hamas by invading and occupying the Palestinian Authority any more than the UK could defeat the IRA by invading and occupying the Republic of Ireland and West Belfast
    Of course they can, if they press their advantages until the enemies surrender unconditionally.

    Just as we pressed our advantages until the Nazis surrendered unconditionally.
    Just as the Americans pressed theirs until the Japanese surrendered unconditionally.
    Just as the Sri Lankans pressed theirs until the Tamil Tigers surrendered unconditionally.

    Unconditional surrender ends wars.
    Ethnic cleansing also ends historic conflicts. Cf Turkey/Greece

    This is what Israel is pursuing. They just can’t say it
    Indeed they can’t.

    The Gaza Strip would make for some first class seaside real estate when redeveloped.
    Pretty much everyone with coastline in the Middle East is now planning to copy Dubai and build hotels on the beaches.

    Tourism should be a large attraction for the whole region, especially as it’s mostly off-season for European visitors, somewhere to find sun in winter.
    If it dropped the violence and distaste for alcohol and women then the Middle East would be beautifully situated to make a fortune from tourism.

    Sharm el-Sheikh was itself of course developed by Israel while it occupied the land, and it became a very successful tourist area which it remains to this day after Egypt accepted peace with Israel.

    Egypt accepting it had lost the war ended the cycle of violence with Israel and has led to much more prosperity since, even if not great amounts of freedom. Far better than what the Palestinians have under Hamas.
    Sharm-el-Sheikh is lovely, a good example of what they could all be doing. If you stop the war, you start attracting tourists.

    Even the Saudis are preparing to relax rules on alcohol and women’s dress in their new resort city on the Red Sea. It’ll be a ‘closed city’ with no locals there. Just across the sea from Sharm, as it happens.
    NARRATOR: Sharm-el-Sheikh is not "lovely", unless you you enjoy sterile, dessicated resort-cities inexplicably plonked in hostile desert by a windy coast
    A reminder that the song "Why does it always rain on me" was inspired by a soggy holiday in Eilat

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_Does_It_Always_Rain_on_Me?#:~:text=Fran_Healy_started_writing_the,he_left_a_week_later.?wprov=sfla1
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,053
    Good evening, even.
  • This is utter woke nonsense from 'Kemi' Badenoch.

    Turns out she's not called Kemi at all, she is using a first name different from her assigned name.

    Her full name is Olukemi Olufunto Adegoke Badenoch.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,508
    EPG said:

    Click the link to read Musk’s explanation for the claim below:

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1840409051357696324

    Very few Americans realize that, if Trump is NOT elected, this will be the last election. Far from being a threat to democracy, he is the only way to save it!

    White South African billionaire has opinion on brown people, the opinion will not surprise you.
    South African immigrant deprecates immigrants.
    In a country of immigrants.

    I don’t think he gets the US.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,700
    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Israel has just killed ANOTHER Hezbollah leader

    War is horrific, but as horrors go this is impressively efficient

    But it also begs the question: why was this chilling accuracy not used against Hamas, why instead did they carpet bomb civilians?

    Because Bibi wants to commit genocide/ethnic cleansing in the occupied territories, if you follow that, he's not interested in a greater Israel.
    Yes, that is my suspicion
    If you look at some of the stuff his cabinet have said publicly, such as the below, you can only imagine what they say/do in private.

    The EU, France and UK have condemned a senior Israeli minister for suggesting it might be “justified and moral” to starve people in Gaza.

    Israel’s finance minister, Bezalel Smotrich, sparked international outrage after he said on Wednesday: “No one in the world will allow us to starve 2 million people, even though it might be justified and moral in order to free the hostages.”

    Separately on Wednesday, Israel’s Channel 12 broadcasted security camera footage that reportedly showed the sexual assault of a Palestinian detainee from Gaza at Sde Teiman military detention camp. Last week, the detention of the soldiers accused of involvement in the alleged abuse sparked violent riots.


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/aug/08/israel-finance-minister-bezalel-smotrich-gaza-starve-2m-people-comments
    I said at the beginning I suspected this of Israel. It’s the only logic behind their behaviour in Gaza - a “final solution” to the Palestinian problem. Just cleanse them entirely: make Gaza uninhabitable and terrify them out of the West Bank

    And if you’re an Israeli looking at October 7 I can see why you might feel that way. The Jewish state cannot tolerate the mere possibility it might happen again - it is existential. AND if you’re going to do this you have to get it done before Iran acquires nukes

    So: this will end either with the elimination of any Palestinian homeland or the destruction of Israel
    Israel can't defeat Hamas by invading and occupying the Palestinian Authority any more than the UK could defeat the IRA by invading and occupying the Republic of Ireland and West Belfast
    Of course they can, if they press their advantages until the enemies surrender unconditionally.

    Just as we pressed our advantages until the Nazis surrendered unconditionally.
    Just as the Americans pressed theirs until the Japanese surrendered unconditionally.
    Just as the Sri Lankans pressed theirs until the Tamil Tigers surrendered unconditionally.

    Unconditional surrender ends wars.
    Ethnic cleansing also ends historic conflicts. Cf Turkey/Greece

    This is what Israel is pursuing. They just can’t say it
    Indeed they can’t.

    The Gaza Strip would make for some first class seaside real estate when redeveloped.
    Pretty much everyone with coastline in the Middle East is now planning to copy Dubai and build hotels on the beaches.

    Tourism should be a large attraction for the whole region, especially as it’s mostly off-season for European visitors, somewhere to find sun in winter.
    If it dropped the violence and distaste for alcohol and women then the Middle East would be beautifully situated to make a fortune from tourism.

    Sharm el-Sheikh was itself of course developed by Israel while it occupied the land, and it became a very successful tourist area which it remains to this day after Egypt accepted peace with Israel.

    Egypt accepting it had lost the war ended the cycle of violence with Israel and has led to much more prosperity since, even if not great amounts of freedom. Far better than what the Palestinians have under Hamas.
    Sharm-el-Sheikh is lovely, a good example of what they could all be doing. If you stop the war, you start attracting tourists.

    Even the Saudis are preparing to relax rules on alcohol and women’s dress in their new resort city on the Red Sea. It’ll be a ‘closed city’ with no locals there. Just across the sea from Sharm, as it happens.
    NARRATOR: Sharm-el-Sheikh is not "lovely", unless you you enjoy sterile, dessicated resort-cities inexplicably plonked in hostile desert by a windy coast
    If all you want to do is lie on the beach for a week in the middle of British winter…

    Remember that most Brits have to experience winter, rather than decamp to the brothels of Bangkok for months on end.
    What fools they are

    I can barely tolerate September in the New British Climate (TM)

    I just walked out to buy some food and a wintry wind was gusting down Parkway and everyone was hunched in winter coats. "Feels like" about 9C? This is Sept 29
    Barely coat weather. Very much enjoying the greens turning to golds and anticipating a lovely Autumn here.
    In a world in which school holidays were not an issue, I wouldn't mind missing the British January. But I don't think the Middle East would ever come top of the list, or even seem preferable to Britain, climatically.
    The trick is to find a way of spending the summer in the UK, and the winter somewhere hotter, either the Middle East or Southern Hemisphere.

    An old friend of mine had the best job ever, he was a professional gliding instructor who for two decades was in the UK in the summer and New Zealand in the ‘winter’. Oh, and ‘work’ in most cases meant going flying at least five days a week, and being paid to do so.
    A colleague of mines son is a pilot. In the summer he flies Canadians to remote fishing and hunting lodges in a float plane, then when the weather changes he flies supplies to remote missions in the DRC, including occasional scrapes with various guerilla.

    He has some amazing photos and stories.
    Awesome. If I lived my life again I think that’s what I would do.

    The problem is that a commercial pilot’s licence costs close to £100k, and you can’t get a student loan for it. Most pilots are financed by the bank of Mum and Dad, who often remortgage their houses to do so.

    Meanwhile, the airlines complain about a pilot shortage while sponsoring no more than dozens of pilots every year.
    BA have been offering fully funded pathways to be a pilot:
    https://skyborne.com/uk/british-airways-speedbird-pilot-academy/

    I have an acquaintance who is senior there who pointed one of his children onto that route.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,053
    MattW said:

    AnneJGP said:

    theProle said:

    MaxPB said:

    I think Kemi is unfit to be leader having just read her comments on maternity leave/pay. It's absolutely idiotic, in a country where we have a birth rate lower than the replacement rate we need for families to have an extra child, not have fewer because they can't afford the time off.

    If anything maternity pay and early years childcare funding needs to go up substantially so that parents don't feel as though they can't have 2 kids instead of 1 or decide that 2 is enough and not go for a third one etc...

    I don't know if it plays well with members, perhaps it does because they're all old fuckers who "didn't have that in our day and we raised a family of 17 on a single salary" but this shows she doesn't understand the major demographic issue facing the nation and a big driver of migration in the last 10 years.

    The best fix for larger family sizes is to sort the housing market, so buying a decent house doesn't require both parents to be out at work and the child dumped in childcare from 6 months old.

    Maternity pay is a side-show compared to this.

    Don't forget the people at the bottom - we need millions more houses in council-style housing too. There is or was an incentive for couples in that range to have at least 3 children. Whatever the child benefit limit, it's that third child qualifies/qualified you for a 3-bed house (and probably garden) rather than a 2-bed flat in a huge block.

    And then the couple splits up, Dad probably gets pushed out to make way for the new boyfriend, and Dad needs a place that will accommodate the three chdren for 50% of the time.

    Good eve, everybody

    The system has been points-based since the time of Thatcher approx (I think), which means dad gets ignored if he does not have custody or a pre-existing tenancy.
    Yes, he does, but he still needs a roof over his head.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,297
    edited September 29
    My birthday is in September, so two things seem really alien to me compared to growing up.

    England's cricket team playing international matches in England after my birthday and needing by big winter coat in September.
This discussion has been closed.