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Will Ed Miliband’s time finally arrive? – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,047
edited September 26 in General
imageWill Ed Miliband’s time finally arrive? – politicalbetting.com

It’s not going terribly well for Sir Keir Starmer KC as Prime Minister and whilst I think the recent revelations about Lord Alli’s donations by the next general election will cost Labour as much the Ecclestone scandal did at the 2001 general election it is worth pondering who might succeed Sir Keir if he were to fall under the metaphorical bus or stand down quicker than anticipated.

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Comments

  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,112
    (Chaos with)
  • If this tip does become a winner then I promise to be modest and self effacing about it.
  • FossFoss Posts: 894
    Leon said:

    The mere possibility of Ed Miliband as PM is by itself a very good reason to keep Kier Starmer as PM

    There are a lot worse possibilities just in that screenshot.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 16,959
    Ed Miliband - the most underrated leader of recent times, and much better than his brother.

    The first major politician to recognise ever increasing house prices are not aspirational and to reach out to Generation Rent.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 50,604
    Ed Miliband would deliver unimaginable levels of cringe:

    https://x.com/maxtempers/status/1838942680950170092
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,019
    I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that this post is not entirely serious :smirk:
  • TazTaz Posts: 13,604
    God I hope not.

    I do wonder if this thread will trigger Rogerdamus after his mini meltdown on the last thread over SKS's longevity.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,313
    QTWTAIN.

    Perhaps the most dangerous minister in the cabinet after the Chancellor.

    Will no journalist ask him just how much energy prices should rise for the average household compared to a 2021 baseline, to fund his accelerated Net Zero fantasy?

    He clearly doesn’t care about the energy cost to the average manufacturing business, he’s happy to see those all offshored on the altar of reducing UK carbon emissions.
  • CatMan said:

    I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that this post is not entirely serious :smirk:

    I am entirely serious, I would never joke when offering a betting tip.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,003
    Leon said:

    The mere possibility of Ed Miliband as PM is by itself a very good reason to keep Kier Starmer as PM

    Boris would be better
  • MattWMattW Posts: 21,866
    Good afternoon everyone.

    Ed Milliband.

    " "

    I promise to be modest and self effacing about it.

    " "
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 16,959
    edited September 26

    CatMan said:

    I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that this post is not entirely serious :smirk:

    I am entirely serious, I would never joke when offering a betting tip.
    Tying into your previous header, Ed Miliband would be doing a John Swinney for Labour. I don't see it but a 1% probability isn't a high bar.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,018
    I can't prove it, but I reckon a tornado may have just gone through Canary Wharf.
  • FF43 said:

    CatMan said:

    I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that this post is not entirely serious :smirk:

    I am entirely serious, I would never joke when offering a betting tip.
    Tying into your previous header, Ed Miliband would be doing a John Swinney for Labour. I don't see it but a 1% probability isn't a high bar.
    He might do an Alex Salmond.

    Quit as leader then came back and took the SNP to power.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 7,903
    Miliband is getting rave reviews for his speech at the conference and is responsible for the government's most popular policies around renewables and GB Energy.

    Interesting.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 16,959
    Eabhal said:

    Miliband is getting rave reviews for his speech at the conference and is responsible for the government's most popular policies around renewables and GB Energy.

    Interesting.

    Miliband is great.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 17,444
    edited September 26
    Not sure about this one. At 100/1 Ed Miliband does at least have the advantage of being eligible, but I'm not particularly convinced it's value.

    I think it's notable that Ed is back being Energy and Climate Secretary. I get the impression that this is the policy area he cares most about and that he's accepted the failure of his time as leader and wouldn't want to go back there.

    You also have to consider that Labour Party rules would make a full contest very likely, while Starmer, or Rayner as his deputy, acted as a caretaker. If you ignore Labour Party rules you can just about imagine a scenario where Cabinet agrees on Ed as the safe pair of hands, but I'd have thought he would want to lose a leadership contest even less than become leader again - and the most likely outcome is that he would lose, because he lost in 2015, and he'd be up against younger Cabinet ministers like Streeting or Phillipson.

    The use of it as a trading bet is much diminished when he isn't even listed on Betfair.

    Superficially appealing, but a bad value bet is my view on this.
  • Not sure about this one. At 100/1 Ed Miliband does at least have the advantage of being eligible, but I'm not particularly convinced it's value.

    I think it's notable that Ed is back being Energy and Climate Secretary. I get the impression that this is the policy area he cares most about and that he's accepted the failure of his time as leader and wouldn't want to go back there.

    You also have to consider that Labour Party rules would make a full contest very likely, while Starmer, or Rayner as his deputy, acted as a caretaker. If you ignore Labour Party rules you can just about imagine a scenario where Cabinet agrees on Ed as the safe pair of hands, but I'd have thought he would want to lose a leadership contest even less than become leader again - and the most likely outcome is that he would lose, because he lost in 2015, and he'd be up against younger Cabinet ministers like Streeting or Phillipson.

    The use of it as a trading bet is much diminished when he isn't even listed on Betfair.

    Superficially appealing, but a bad value bet is my view on this.

    I’m asking for him to be added on the Betfair next PM/next Lab leader markets.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 31,357
    At this point I'd take Ed as PM.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,053
    The verbal version of that Speccie article: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rR_zkLYpd6I
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,053

    viewcode said:

    eek said:

    All these problems facing Labour are utterly unforced, and of their own making.

    How will they react when real events come and bash them in the face?
    Got to agree there - Sue Gray may be solving issues on the civil service / delivery side of things.

    But their need someone to quickly get control of the media / presentation side of things because it's running away from them...
    I'm not sure that one person can dictate their way to a reform of the Civil Service. They are more likely to generate a tidal wave of hostility in the system. Which is what we have seen.

    You need a broader and deeper change.
    Hmm. If only somebody had written an article about the reasons for the Blob and what is necessary to tackle it... :)
    Have you finished it?

    Was writing my own.....
    Yup: final draft submitted yesterday. Will be published at the discretion of the mods.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,139
    EMICIPM
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,745
    edited September 26
    It's pretty funny that Betfair have both Ed Balls and Jeremy Corbyn in the next Labour leader market - and not the current Energy Secretary.

    And Graham Brady is still an option for next PM.

    WAKE UP, BETFAIR.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,759
    FPT I thought Tugenhadt's joke was quite blackly funny. Rather like @TSE 's joke about what do Barbie and Robert Oppenheimer have in common?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,112

    Not sure about this one. At 100/1 Ed Miliband does at least have the advantage of being eligible, but I'm not particularly convinced it's value.

    I think it's notable that Ed is back being Energy and Climate Secretary. I get the impression that this is the policy area he cares most about and that he's accepted the failure of his time as leader and wouldn't want to go back there.

    You also have to consider that Labour Party rules would make a full contest very likely, while Starmer, or Rayner as his deputy, acted as a caretaker. If you ignore Labour Party rules you can just about imagine a scenario where Cabinet agrees on Ed as the safe pair of hands, but I'd have thought he would want to lose a leadership contest even less than become leader again - and the most likely outcome is that he would lose, because he lost in 2015, and he'd be up against younger Cabinet ministers like Streeting or Phillipson.

    The use of it as a trading bet is much diminished when he isn't even listed on Betfair.

    Superficially appealing, but a bad value bet is my view on this.

    Yes, I agree with that. He's really into his brief and has been on it for years. This is his dream job. He really cares about making radical changes to the UK's energy mix, and pushing Reeves and others to be less cautious about stumping up some cash. I don't think he looks back fondly on his time as Labour leader and doubt he would be overly keen to go back there.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,380
    viewcode said:

    The verbal version of that Speccie article: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rR_zkLYpd6I

    Cleverly speaks best, in that format, but his answer to the 'naughty' question came across a bit dour.

    Tugendhat's naughty answer is even worse on seeing it. Badenoch's refusal was done with a lot more charm on screen than comes out from reading the page. Jenrick actually makes you warm to him with his answer.

    But Cleverly comes across as generally the most human/normal and maybe with an ability to think about things, whether or not he actually has any answers.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,500
    edited September 26

    Not sure about this one. At 100/1 Ed Miliband does at least have the advantage of being eligible, but I'm not particularly convinced it's value.

    I think it's notable that Ed is back being Energy and Climate Secretary. I get the impression that this is the policy area he cares most about and that he's accepted the failure of his time as leader and wouldn't want to go back there.

    You also have to consider that Labour Party rules would make a full contest very likely, while Starmer, or Rayner as his deputy, acted as a caretaker. If you ignore Labour Party rules you can just about imagine a scenario where Cabinet agrees on Ed as the safe pair of hands, but I'd have thought he would want to lose a leadership contest even less than become leader again - and the most likely outcome is that he would lose, because he lost in 2015, and he'd be up against younger Cabinet ministers like Streeting or Phillipson.

    The use of it as a trading bet is much diminished when he isn't even listed on Betfair.

    Superficially appealing, but a bad value bet is my view on this.

    I’m asking for him to be added on the Betfair next PM/next Lab leader markets.
    Of course his brother is always amongst the first to be added!

    PS There's another Ed that they should add to next PM too!

  • Ed Miliband is even less impressive than Ed Davey
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,661
    Surely, there will be enormous pressure for Labour to elect its first woman leader whenever Starmer goes. Yet another stale pale male really won't be acceptable to the wokey massed ranks.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,018
    https://order-order.com/2024/09/26/exclusive-electoral-law-issues-for-starmer-over-penthouse-campaign-stay/

    Nuttall was investigated by police. He managed to prove to them that he used his house regularly as a “base” in the campaign for the 2017 Stoke By-Election. Starmer has accidentally admitted that he lived in a different property to the one on his declaration – did he campaign from his Kentish Town house? Downing Street will have to say so…
  • Damn. As I said on the last thread, Ed Miliband has at least done something in the couple of months Labour has been in power, but that advantage will fade with time.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,019
    Sean_F said:

    FPT I thought Tugenhadt's joke was quite blackly funny. Rather like @TSE 's joke about what do Barbie and Robert Oppenheimer have in common?

    What do Oscar Schindler and Mr Burns have in common? They both made shells for the Nazis (although Burns's worked).
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,462

    EMICIPM

    Those were the days.
  • tlg86 said:

    https://order-order.com/2024/09/26/exclusive-electoral-law-issues-for-starmer-over-penthouse-campaign-stay/

    Nuttall was investigated by police. He managed to prove to them that he used his house regularly as a “base” in the campaign for the 2017 Stoke By-Election. Starmer has accidentally admitted that he lived in a different property to the one on his declaration – did he campaign from his Kentish Town house? Downing Street will have to say so…

    Guido will be sadly disappointed if he imagines any of this nonsense will lead to cancellation of the results and re-running the general election.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,019

    tlg86 said:

    https://order-order.com/2024/09/26/exclusive-electoral-law-issues-for-starmer-over-penthouse-campaign-stay/

    Nuttall was investigated by police. He managed to prove to them that he used his house regularly as a “base” in the campaign for the 2017 Stoke By-Election. Starmer has accidentally admitted that he lived in a different property to the one on his declaration – did he campaign from his Kentish Town house? Downing Street will have to say so…

    Guido will be sadly disappointed if he imagines any of this nonsense will lead to cancellation of the results and re-running the general election.
    Would be nice if Paul Staines, as a prominent Brexit supporter, would cancel his EU/Irish passport.
  • Ed Miliband is even less impressive than Ed Davey

    Taylor Swift certainly thought so, as the LibDem leader was one of a select 500-odd MPs at her concerts, or so it seemed.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 22,458
    Leon said:

    The mere possibility of Ed Miliband as PM is by itself a very good reason to keep Kier Starmer as PM

    KEIR

    K-E-I-R.

    I would have hoped you of all people would be able to spell.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,759

    Sean_F said:

    FPT I thought Tugenhadt's joke was quite blackly funny. Rather like @TSE 's joke about what do Barbie and Robert Oppenheimer have in common?

    In visual form.


    You can imagine Oppenheimer saying "hold my beer."
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,695
    edited September 26

    tlg86 said:

    https://order-order.com/2024/09/26/exclusive-electoral-law-issues-for-starmer-over-penthouse-campaign-stay/

    Nuttall was investigated by police. He managed to prove to them that he used his house regularly as a “base” in the campaign for the 2017 Stoke By-Election. Starmer has accidentally admitted that he lived in a different property to the one on his declaration – did he campaign from his Kentish Town house? Downing Street will have to say so…

    Guido will be sadly disappointed if he imagines any of this nonsense will lead to cancellation of the results and re-running the general election.
    If it's the big penthouse sequel, it's very weak sauce
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 22,458
    Omnium said:

    Not sure about this one. At 100/1 Ed Miliband does at least have the advantage of being eligible, but I'm not particularly convinced it's value.

    I think it's notable that Ed is back being Energy and Climate Secretary. I get the impression that this is the policy area he cares most about and that he's accepted the failure of his time as leader and wouldn't want to go back there.

    You also have to consider that Labour Party rules would make a full contest very likely, while Starmer, or Rayner as his deputy, acted as a caretaker. If you ignore Labour Party rules you can just about imagine a scenario where Cabinet agrees on Ed as the safe pair of hands, but I'd have thought he would want to lose a leadership contest even less than become leader again - and the most likely outcome is that he would lose, because he lost in 2015, and he'd be up against younger Cabinet ministers like Streeting or Phillipson.

    The use of it as a trading bet is much diminished when he isn't even listed on Betfair.

    Superficially appealing, but a bad value bet is my view on this.

    I’m asking for him to be added on the Betfair next PM/next Lab leader markets.
    Of course his brother is always amongst the first to be added!

    PS There's another Ed that they should add to next PM too!

    Ed Balls would be great
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 7,903

    tlg86 said:

    https://order-order.com/2024/09/26/exclusive-electoral-law-issues-for-starmer-over-penthouse-campaign-stay/

    Nuttall was investigated by police. He managed to prove to them that he used his house regularly as a “base” in the campaign for the 2017 Stoke By-Election. Starmer has accidentally admitted that he lived in a different property to the one on his declaration – did he campaign from his Kentish Town house? Downing Street will have to say so…

    Guido will be sadly disappointed if he imagines any of this nonsense will lead to cancellation of the results and re-running the general election.
    And Starmer's appointment as PM does not rely on him being an MP.

    Lord Cameron has shown the way.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,500

    Omnium said:

    Not sure about this one. At 100/1 Ed Miliband does at least have the advantage of being eligible, but I'm not particularly convinced it's value.

    I think it's notable that Ed is back being Energy and Climate Secretary. I get the impression that this is the policy area he cares most about and that he's accepted the failure of his time as leader and wouldn't want to go back there.

    You also have to consider that Labour Party rules would make a full contest very likely, while Starmer, or Rayner as his deputy, acted as a caretaker. If you ignore Labour Party rules you can just about imagine a scenario where Cabinet agrees on Ed as the safe pair of hands, but I'd have thought he would want to lose a leadership contest even less than become leader again - and the most likely outcome is that he would lose, because he lost in 2015, and he'd be up against younger Cabinet ministers like Streeting or Phillipson.

    The use of it as a trading bet is much diminished when he isn't even listed on Betfair.

    Superficially appealing, but a bad value bet is my view on this.

    I’m asking for him to be added on the Betfair next PM/next Lab leader markets.
    Of course his brother is always amongst the first to be added!

    PS There's another Ed that they should add to next PM too!

    Ed Balls would be great
    If only there was a bookmaker offering odds on likely PB responses :)
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,139

    Leon said:

    The mere possibility of Ed Miliband as PM is by itself a very good reason to keep Kier Starmer as PM

    KEIR

    K-E-I-R.

    I would have hoped you of all people would be able to spell.
    Who are you? His mum?

    Don't give a fuck if people misspell his name.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,573

    Surely, there will be enormous pressure for Labour to elect its first woman leader whenever Starmer goes. Yet another stale pale male really won't be acceptable to the wokey massed ranks.

    Next February it'll be 50 years since Thatch took over the Tories.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,705

    Leon said:

    The mere possibility of Ed Miliband as PM is by itself a very good reason to keep Kier Starmer as PM

    KEIR

    K-E-I-R.

    I would have hoped you of all people would be able to spell.
    Who are you? His mum?

    Don't give a fuck if people misspell his name.
    ...what stage are you at again CR?
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,500

    Leon said:

    The mere possibility of Ed Miliband as PM is by itself a very good reason to keep Kier Starmer as PM

    KEIR

    K-E-I-R.

    I would have hoped you of all people would be able to spell.
    Who are you? His mum?

    Don't give a fuck if people misspell his name.
    I agree with Cashew Rogan Josh
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 41,462

    Leon said:

    The mere possibility of Ed Miliband as PM is by itself a very good reason to keep Kier Starmer as PM

    KEIR

    K-E-I-R.

    I would have hoped you of all people would be able to spell.
    No, you ignoramus. It's Kier.

    https://www.kier.co.uk/
  • Omnium said:

    Not sure about this one. At 100/1 Ed Miliband does at least have the advantage of being eligible, but I'm not particularly convinced it's value.

    I think it's notable that Ed is back being Energy and Climate Secretary. I get the impression that this is the policy area he cares most about and that he's accepted the failure of his time as leader and wouldn't want to go back there.

    You also have to consider that Labour Party rules would make a full contest very likely, while Starmer, or Rayner as his deputy, acted as a caretaker. If you ignore Labour Party rules you can just about imagine a scenario where Cabinet agrees on Ed as the safe pair of hands, but I'd have thought he would want to lose a leadership contest even less than become leader again - and the most likely outcome is that he would lose, because he lost in 2015, and he'd be up against younger Cabinet ministers like Streeting or Phillipson.

    The use of it as a trading bet is much diminished when he isn't even listed on Betfair.

    Superficially appealing, but a bad value bet is my view on this.

    I’m asking for him to be added on the Betfair next PM/next Lab leader markets.
    Of course his brother is always amongst the first to be added!

    PS There's another Ed that they should add to next PM too!

    Ed Balls would be great
    He's only been good as a retired politician

    His most notable political contribution was to undermine Blair as part of the Brownite cabal
  • Omnium said:

    Not sure about this one. At 100/1 Ed Miliband does at least have the advantage of being eligible, but I'm not particularly convinced it's value.

    I think it's notable that Ed is back being Energy and Climate Secretary. I get the impression that this is the policy area he cares most about and that he's accepted the failure of his time as leader and wouldn't want to go back there.

    You also have to consider that Labour Party rules would make a full contest very likely, while Starmer, or Rayner as his deputy, acted as a caretaker. If you ignore Labour Party rules you can just about imagine a scenario where Cabinet agrees on Ed as the safe pair of hands, but I'd have thought he would want to lose a leadership contest even less than become leader again - and the most likely outcome is that he would lose, because he lost in 2015, and he'd be up against younger Cabinet ministers like Streeting or Phillipson.

    The use of it as a trading bet is much diminished when he isn't even listed on Betfair.

    Superficially appealing, but a bad value bet is my view on this.

    I’m asking for him to be added on the Betfair next PM/next Lab leader markets.
    Of course his brother is always amongst the first to be added!

    PS There's another Ed that they should add to next PM too!

    Ed Balls would be great
    Perhaps he and his missus could do a job swap and she could do hard hitting interrogations of him on morning tv.
  • tlg86 said:

    https://order-order.com/2024/09/26/exclusive-electoral-law-issues-for-starmer-over-penthouse-campaign-stay/

    Nuttall was investigated by police. He managed to prove to them that he used his house regularly as a “base” in the campaign for the 2017 Stoke By-Election. Starmer has accidentally admitted that he lived in a different property to the one on his declaration – did he campaign from his Kentish Town house? Downing Street will have to say so…

    I seem to remember election petitions have to be issued within six months of the election being called. It is rare for successful candidates to be ousted after an election. I have seen police deliberately put such a petition into a drawer until it was out of date so my advice to an aggrieved elector from his constituency, make sure you seek a private prosecution.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,565
    On topic, I'm not convinced, even at 100/1. Maybe there's a case for him as an interim PM if Starmer went unexpectedly quickly but even the likes of Johnson and Truss stayed on for the subsequent leadership contest, and it even then it'd be difficult to keep Rayner out from her natural succession to Acting Leader (the PM doesn't have to be leader of course but we're talking Next Lab Leader here, not Next PM).

    In fact, on that point, punters should pay careful attention to the rules of the market. IIRC, an Acting Leader of Labour can serve for up to 18 months before a leadership election is required. What would count as a 'permanent' leader in those circumstances is anyone's guess. You'd assume they'd mean the winner of the next leadership contest but that's not 100% guaranteed.

    However, I think Labour really will want a female leader next time. It's very embarrassing for them that it'll be more than forty years since the Tories first chose a woman to lead them, and have done so twice more since then so far (with a realistic prospect of it become at least three times before the next Labour contest). They also have credible female candidates in senior roles now.

    100/1 does initially seem long odds for an ex-leader who's still an MP, in the cabinet and far from too old. But. The dynamics look wrong. How likely is a Labour leadership election this side of 2029? Not very. Labour leaders are far harder to push out than their Tory equivalents and all PMs tend to be highly reluctant to resign for just about any reason. Labour has a bomb-proof majority in parliament and the Tories are in a mess and have Reform snapping at them from the right. That's a scenario that favours Labour on tactical voting as long as it lasts. And when a leadership election does come, how likely is it that Miliband will even be a candidate, never mind win?

    Chances are that there won't be a Labour leadership contest for 7+ years and when there is, the field will be very difficult to anticipate from today's position. Sure, 100/1 shots whose best chance is in the next few years mitigate the timeframe question quite a bit but this is not a market I'd be that keen to enter on behalf of anyone.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 31,357
    edited September 26
    Thanks to these idiots we're probably going to have to start paying for restaurant meals up-front.

    https://www.itv.com/news/2024-09-26/the-rise-of-dine-and-dash-a-third-of-hospitality-businesses-out-of-pocket
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,139

    Leon said:

    The mere possibility of Ed Miliband as PM is by itself a very good reason to keep Kier Starmer as PM

    KEIR

    K-E-I-R.

    I would have hoped you of all people would be able to spell.
    Who are you? His mum?

    Don't give a fuck if people misspell his name.
    ...what stage are you at again CR?
    Cup of tea
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 16,959
    Selebian said:

    viewcode said:

    The verbal version of that Speccie article: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rR_zkLYpd6I

    Cleverly speaks best, in that format, but his answer to the 'naughty' question came across a bit dour.

    Tugendhat's naughty answer is even worse on seeing it. Badenoch's refusal was done with a lot more charm on screen than comes out from reading the page. Jenrick actually makes you warm to him with his answer.

    But Cleverly comes across as generally the most human/normal and maybe with an ability to think about things, whether or not he actually has any answers.
    Badenoch comes across as completely batty in that video. The most interesting question to me, but not it seems to any of the candidates: why did you lose the election? Cleverly at least sounded plausible.

    In principle Starmer shouldn't be worried by any of these.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,040
    How many more silly errors is Sir Keir going to have to confess to? This is getting ridiculous.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,695
    edited September 26
    FF43 said:

    Selebian said:

    viewcode said:

    The verbal version of that Speccie article: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rR_zkLYpd6I

    Cleverly speaks best, in that format, but his answer to the 'naughty' question came across a bit dour.

    Tugendhat's naughty answer is even worse on seeing it. Badenoch's refusal was done with a lot more charm on screen than comes out from reading the page. Jenrick actually makes you warm to him with his answer.

    But Cleverly comes across as generally the most human/normal and maybe with an ability to think about things, whether or not he actually has any answers.
    Badenoch comes across as completely batty in that video. The most interesting question to me, but not it seems to any of the candidates: why did you lose the election? Cleverly at least sounded plausible.

    In principle Starmer shouldn't be worried by any of these.
    Should any of them be worried by Starmer?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,053
    FF43 said:

    Selebian said:

    viewcode said:

    The verbal version of that Speccie article: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rR_zkLYpd6I

    Cleverly speaks best, in that format, but his answer to the 'naughty' question came across a bit dour.

    Tugendhat's naughty answer is even worse on seeing it. Badenoch's refusal was done with a lot more charm on screen than comes out from reading the page. Jenrick actually makes you warm to him with his answer.

    But Cleverly comes across as generally the most human/normal and maybe with an ability to think about things, whether or not he actually has any answers.
    Badenoch comes across as completely batty in that video. The most interesting question to me, but not it seems to any of the candidates: why did you lose the election? Cleverly at least sounded plausible.

    In principle Starmer shouldn't be worried by any of these.
    They could elect God Himself but until they manage to reconcile their aspirations for growth (requiring high immigration) with the aspirations of their voters (requiring low immigration) , Reform will continue to cut them off at the knees. They can wander thru fields of wheat as much as they like.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 31,357
    "Wilders: PVV could pull out of coalition over emergency law row

    Geert Wilders has hinted he could withdraw his support for the Dutch government if other coalition parties fail to back the use of emergency powers to declare a “crisis” in the asylum system."

    https://www.dutchnews.nl/2024/09/wilders-pvv-could-pull-out-of-coalition-over-emergency-law-row/
  • TazTaz Posts: 13,604

    Ed Miliband is even less impressive than Ed Davey

    Give Ed Davey is a bit of a Pratt that is damning indeed
  • TazTaz Posts: 13,604

    Omnium said:

    Not sure about this one. At 100/1 Ed Miliband does at least have the advantage of being eligible, but I'm not particularly convinced it's value.

    I think it's notable that Ed is back being Energy and Climate Secretary. I get the impression that this is the policy area he cares most about and that he's accepted the failure of his time as leader and wouldn't want to go back there.

    You also have to consider that Labour Party rules would make a full contest very likely, while Starmer, or Rayner as his deputy, acted as a caretaker. If you ignore Labour Party rules you can just about imagine a scenario where Cabinet agrees on Ed as the safe pair of hands, but I'd have thought he would want to lose a leadership contest even less than become leader again - and the most likely outcome is that he would lose, because he lost in 2015, and he'd be up against younger Cabinet ministers like Streeting or Phillipson.

    The use of it as a trading bet is much diminished when he isn't even listed on Betfair.

    Superficially appealing, but a bad value bet is my view on this.

    I’m asking for him to be added on the Betfair next PM/next Lab leader markets.
    Of course his brother is always amongst the first to be added!

    PS There's another Ed that they should add to next PM too!

    Ed Balls would be great
    Would he want it. He’s carved out a successful post politics career in TV.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 41,462
    I do wonder what internal battles are currently going on within the parliamentary, and wider, Labour Party?

    It doesn't seem very happy at the moment, or coherent.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 16,959

    FF43 said:

    Selebian said:

    viewcode said:

    The verbal version of that Speccie article: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rR_zkLYpd6I

    Cleverly speaks best, in that format, but his answer to the 'naughty' question came across a bit dour.

    Tugendhat's naughty answer is even worse on seeing it. Badenoch's refusal was done with a lot more charm on screen than comes out from reading the page. Jenrick actually makes you warm to him with his answer.

    But Cleverly comes across as generally the most human/normal and maybe with an ability to think about things, whether or not he actually has any answers.
    Badenoch comes across as completely batty in that video. The most interesting question to me, but not it seems to any of the candidates: why did you lose the election? Cleverly at least sounded plausible.

    In principle Starmer shouldn't be worried by any of these.
    Should any of them be worried by Starmer?
    Fair point. They are all irrelevant to each other. Labour problems in government have nothing to do with the Conservatives problems outside of government.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,068
    On topic, the chances of Labour turning to Ed Miliband for leader is precisely, to two decimal places, zero. 100/1 is not value. Value is 10/1 or thereabouts for Cleverly to be next Tory leader.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,112
    edited September 26

    I do wonder what internal battles are currently going on within the parliamentary, and wider, Labour Party?

    It doesn't seem very happy at the moment, or coherent.

    Colleagues who were at the conference this week say it was nowhere near as downbeat or fractious as the media make out, and was by and large a pretty happy affair. But on the other hand nowhere near as celebratory as the Lib Dem conference.

    I'm in Birmingham for the Tories next week. I get the sense they're actually enjoying a bit of a break from the spotlight and not tearing each other apart either.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 31,357
    Interesting how politicians aren't asked what the most virtuous thing they've ever done is.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,500

    I do wonder what internal battles are currently going on within the parliamentary, and wider, Labour Party?

    It doesn't seem very happy at the moment, or coherent.

    I doubt any battles. The Starmer government is busy getting its feet under the table, the MPs not in government are split between making themselves known or gently feeling out the landscape of the left.
  • 'Ed Miliband would fancy his chances against most of the remaining four Tory leadership candidates.'

    Really, TSE? So would Larry the cat.

    I expect HM Opposition will have come up with something a bit better by the next GE, as would Labour, if necessary.

    Meanwhile, no bet is no problem.
  • 'Ed Miliband would fancy his chances against most of the remaining four Tory leadership candidates.'

    Really, TSE? So would Larry the cat.

    I expect HM Opposition will have come up with something a bit better by the next GE, as would Labour, if necessary.

    Meanwhile, no bet is no problem.

    You think Ed or Keir might beat Larry?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 41,462
    Off-topic:

    This story has resurfaced. Perhaps unlike the submarine...

    "China’s newest nuclear-powered attack submarine sank in the spring, a major setback for one of the country’s priority weapons programs, U.S. officials said.

    The episode, which Chinese authorities scrambled to cover up and hasn’t previously been disclosed, occurred at a shipyard near Wuhan in late May or early June."

    https://www.wsj.com/world/china/chinas-newest-nuclear-submarine-sank-setting-back-its-military-modernization-785b4d37
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,462
    Taz said:

    Omnium said:

    Not sure about this one. At 100/1 Ed Miliband does at least have the advantage of being eligible, but I'm not particularly convinced it's value.

    I think it's notable that Ed is back being Energy and Climate Secretary. I get the impression that this is the policy area he cares most about and that he's accepted the failure of his time as leader and wouldn't want to go back there.

    You also have to consider that Labour Party rules would make a full contest very likely, while Starmer, or Rayner as his deputy, acted as a caretaker. If you ignore Labour Party rules you can just about imagine a scenario where Cabinet agrees on Ed as the safe pair of hands, but I'd have thought he would want to lose a leadership contest even less than become leader again - and the most likely outcome is that he would lose, because he lost in 2015, and he'd be up against younger Cabinet ministers like Streeting or Phillipson.

    The use of it as a trading bet is much diminished when he isn't even listed on Betfair.

    Superficially appealing, but a bad value bet is my view on this.

    I’m asking for him to be added on the Betfair next PM/next Lab leader markets.
    Of course his brother is always amongst the first to be added!

    PS There's another Ed that they should add to next PM too!

    Ed Balls would be great
    Would he want it. He’s carved out a successful post politics career in TV.
    Ed Balls is not going to be Labour leader.

    It will be Philipson imho.

    You can all bookmark this one.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 31,357
    "New York Mayor Eric Adams charged with wire fraud and bribery | BBC News"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25ouDZ16CXU
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 27,674

    EMICIPM

    Wasn't it EIC? So big he needs no surname.
  • Off-topic:

    This story has resurfaced. Perhaps unlike the submarine...

    "China’s newest nuclear-powered attack submarine sank in the spring, a major setback for one of the country’s priority weapons programs, U.S. officials said.

    The episode, which Chinese authorities scrambled to cover up and hasn’t previously been disclosed, occurred at a shipyard near Wuhan in late May or early June."

    https://www.wsj.com/world/china/chinas-newest-nuclear-submarine-sank-setting-back-its-military-modernization-785b4d37

    Conversely, I've also seen it suggested that China has more submarines than it has declared.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,327
    Andy_JS said:

    Interesting how politicians aren't asked what the most virtuous thing they've ever done is.

    I thought that there was an understanding that politicians won't come back on your show if you ask them next to impossible questions.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 16,959
    algarkirk said:

    On topic, the chances of Labour turning to Ed Miliband for leader is precisely, to two decimal places, zero. 100/1 is not value. Value is 10/1 or thereabouts for Cleverly to be next Tory leader.

    Good call. On the basis Cleverly is obviously the best option available to the Conservative Party. I don't expect the Party to pay an iota of attention to what I think and I do expect them to be just as stupid in their selection this time as previously. But a 1 in 10 possiblity they will be sensible surely has to be value?
  • Weirdly weird, amid bland, politician (6,8)
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,848

    Ed Miliband would deliver unimaginable levels of cringe:

    https://x.com/maxtempers/status/1838942680950170092

    Slay!

    (My daughter changed my email user name to that and I don’t know how to change it back…)
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 5,905
    Some good polling so far today for Kamala Harris and Dem Senate candidates .

    Particularly encouraging for Gallego who leads the odious Lake by 10 points in Arizona .
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,500

    Weirdly weird, amid bland, politician (6,8)

    Politicians 6,8?

    Sounds like an exciting book of a previously uninteresting text!
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,327
    nico679 said:

    Some good polling so far today for Kamala Harris and Dem Senate candidates .

    Particularly encouraging for Gallego who leads the odious Lake by 10 points in Arizona .

    Lake's toast. The question is whether enthusiasm for Gallego pulls out a few more marginal Harris supporters to give her a narrow edge in the state. Lake will certainly not be encouraging Trump supporters, just like Mark Robinson in NC. But, if you surround yourself with idiots, that is the price you have to pay.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,507
    I think (think, mind, not of late because who knows), that in general the Cons are, were once, or should be in favour of a small state with support where necessary, individual responsibility, and free enterprise. After that it wants to let people do their thing.

    My impression of Lab, under Keir or EdM or anyone, is that they want us to behave and think in a particular way that conforms to a set of nebulous ideals that no one will articulate clearly beyond the buzzwords.

    Is why they are always so dangerous.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,327

    Off-topic:

    This story has resurfaced. Perhaps unlike the submarine...

    "China’s newest nuclear-powered attack submarine sank in the spring, a major setback for one of the country’s priority weapons programs, U.S. officials said.

    The episode, which Chinese authorities scrambled to cover up and hasn’t previously been disclosed, occurred at a shipyard near Wuhan in late May or early June."

    https://www.wsj.com/world/china/chinas-newest-nuclear-submarine-sank-setting-back-its-military-modernization-785b4d37

    But did it go to the wet market first? That is what we need to know.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 16,959
    TimS said:

    I do wonder what internal battles are currently going on within the parliamentary, and wider, Labour Party?

    It doesn't seem very happy at the moment, or coherent.

    Colleagues who were at the conference this week say it was nowhere near as downbeat or fractious as the media make out, and was by and large a pretty happy affair. But on the other hand nowhere near as celebratory as the Lib Dem conference.

    I'm in Birmingham for the Tories next week. I get the sense they're actually enjoying a bit of a break from the spotlight and not tearing each other apart either.
    Being in government is a good problem to have, as a politician.
  • Andy_JS said:

    At this point I'd take Ed as PM.

    Miliband or Davey?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,068
    TOPPING said:

    I think (think, mind, not of late because who knows), that in general the Cons are, were once, or should be in favour of a small state with support where necessary, individual responsibility, and free enterprise. After that it wants to let people do their thing.

    My impression of Lab, under Keir or EdM or anyone, is that they want us to behave and think in a particular way that conforms to a set of nebulous ideals that no one will articulate clearly beyond the buzzwords.

    Is why they are always so dangerous.

    There is no significant party in favour of the small state. Politics would be a good deal more interesting if there were. It could be a niche for Reform, but won't be.

    But a coherent costed programme of what UKplc would look like, and how it would function if, say, a very modest 10% (roughly £100 billion) were removed from State Managed Expenditure would be interesting. Anyone who thinks the Tories are either going there or have been there in the last 50 years are mistaken.

    For how difficult this is, contemplate the fuss over WFA, which might save £1.5 billion, and probably will save nothing as Pension credit and its accompanying perks, such as no council tax, kicks in.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,796
    I'm in France and I sense a lot of the news stories that have been turning posters brains into jelly have been lost on me. I've been listening rather than watching which also makes a difference. I've now heard all the main speeches and several interviews

    I didn't think Starmer's speech was well delivered or well written. It had no easy flow and I couldn't see much point in most of it. Even the bit about the racist rioters which was the best received was not well delivered. And as for his joke.....

    By contrast Rachel Reeves timing was excellent as was her delivery. It was also well constructed and even quite moving in parts. I feel she has much the best chance of changing the face of British politics and if everything aligns she could well be a star.

    My final tip is Wes Streeting. He reminds me of David Milliband. He's articulate authentic and can talk about any subject without appearing to be evasive. He's likable and all round a witty and engaging 'bloke'.

    So in answer to Eagles question "if the proverbial bus....." it would be between Reeves and Streeting. Maybe Reeves
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,228
    DavidL said:

    nico679 said:

    Some good polling so far today for Kamala Harris and Dem Senate candidates .

    Particularly encouraging for Gallego who leads the odious Lake by 10 points in Arizona .

    Lake's toast. The question is whether enthusiasm for Gallego pulls out a few more marginal Harris supporters to give her a narrow edge in the state. Lake will certainly not be encouraging Trump supporters, just like Mark Robinson in NC. But, if you surround yourself with idiots, that is the price you have to pay.
    Actually, I think the impact is slightly different.

    I think in 2016 and 2020, Donald Trump benefited from non-Trump supporting Republicans turning up to vote for - say - Ron Johnson in Wisconsin. And they got to the booths and said "well, I'm not a great fan of Trump, but he's better than Hillary, and I'm here anyway". In other words, he got a meaningful leg up from down ballot races bringing out Republican voters.

    The number of non-Trump enthused Republicans who will be making a special trek to the polling station to give Lake their support is... checks... none.

    And that - along with the abortion referendum, and the general demographic trends in the State - is why I think Arizona is a better Dem shot than, for example, Georgia.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 21,866
    edited September 26
    Naomi Campbell banned from being Charity Trustee after misappropriating funds, with other trustees. The sums are hundreds of thousands:

    The model Naomi Campbell has been banned from being a charity trustee after a watchdog found charity funds were spent on luxury hotels and spa treatments.

    A Charity Commission inquiry found Fashion for Relief was not passing on as much of the money raised as it was supposed to.

    Instead it was being spent on cigarettes and security for Campbell and other unauthorised payments to one of her fellow charity trustees.

    Campbell, 54, has been banned from charity involvement for five years with two other trustees, Bianka Hellmich and Veronica Chou, being banned for nine years and four years respectively.
    ..
    The inquiry, which looked at Fashion for Relief's expenses between April 2016 and July 2022, found that just 8.5% of funds raised were spent on grants to charity.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c70zn97q1n8o
  • Andy_JS said:

    Thanks to these idiots we're probably going to have to start paying for restaurant meals up-front.

    https://www.itv.com/news/2024-09-26/the-rise-of-dine-and-dash-a-third-of-hospitality-businesses-out-of-pocket

    Which you already do in KFC, McDonalds or Spoons.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,228
    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    FPT I thought Tugenhadt's joke was quite blackly funny. Rather like @TSE 's joke about what do Barbie and Robert Oppenheimer have in common?

    In visual form.


    You can imagine Oppenheimer saying "hold my beer."
    I think he'd probably say "hold my martini".
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 80,357
    edited September 26
    Roger said:

    I'm in France and I sense a lot of the news stories that have been turning posters brains into jelly have been lost on me. I've been listening rather than watching which also makes a difference. I've now heard all the main speeches and several interviews

    I didn't think Starmer's speech was well delivered or well written. It had no easy flow and I couldn't see much point in most of it. Even the bit about the racist rioters which was the best received was not well delivered. And as for his joke.....

    By contrast Rachel Reeves timing was excellent as was her delivery. It was also well constructed and even quite moving in parts. I feel she has much the best chance of changing the face of British politics and if everything aligns she could well be a star.

    My final tip is Wes Streeting. He reminds me of David Milliband. He's articulate authentic and can talk about any subject without appearing to be evasive. He's likable and all round a witty and engaging 'bloke'.

    So in answer to Eagles question "if the proverbial bus....." it would be between Reeves and Streeting. Maybe Reeves

    Damn, I also think Wes Streeting is the best of Labour's top team, but now Rog has given him the seal of approval, that's probably buggered that.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,228
    edited September 26
    Andy_JS said:

    "Wilders: PVV could pull out of coalition over emergency law row

    Geert Wilders has hinted he could withdraw his support for the Dutch government if other coalition parties fail to back the use of emergency powers to declare a “crisis” in the asylum system."

    https://www.dutchnews.nl/2024/09/wilders-pvv-could-pull-out-of-coalition-over-emergency-law-row/

    The Netherlands does a generally good job with rapidly processing applicants and then deporting failed asylum seekers, so this feels rather performative.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 80,357
    edited September 26
    Andy_JS said:

    Thanks to these idiots we're probably going to have to start paying for restaurant meals up-front.

    https://www.itv.com/news/2024-09-26/the-rise-of-dine-and-dash-a-third-of-hospitality-businesses-out-of-pocket

    Or they take a card and pre-approve a certain amount when ordering. Then they have got your details, a card number and some money in deposit. Its all a bit sad that it would have to come to this because of the action of a few.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 27,674
    FF43 said:

    algarkirk said:

    On topic, the chances of Labour turning to Ed Miliband for leader is precisely, to two decimal places, zero. 100/1 is not value. Value is 10/1 or thereabouts for Cleverly to be next Tory leader.

    Good call. On the basis Cleverly is obviously the best option available to the Conservative Party. I don't expect the Party to pay an iota of attention to what I think and I do expect them to be just as stupid in their selection this time as previously. But a 1 in 10 possiblity they will be sensible surely has to be value?
    Let me translate that for you:

    "On the basis that Cleverly is obviously the most aligned to my political opinions.."

    You're welcome.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,016
    edited September 26

    Roger said:

    I'm in France and I sense a lot of the news stories that have been turning posters brains into jelly have been lost on me. I've been listening rather than watching which also makes a difference. I've now heard all the main speeches and several interviews

    I didn't think Starmer's speech was well delivered or well written. It had no easy flow and I couldn't see much point in most of it. Even the bit about the racist rioters which was the best received was not well delivered. And as for his joke.....

    By contrast Rachel Reeves timing was excellent as was her delivery. It was also well constructed and even quite moving in parts. I feel she has much the best chance of changing the face of British politics and if everything aligns she could well be a star.

    My final tip is Wes Streeting. He reminds me of David Milliband. He's articulate authentic and can talk about any subject without appearing to be evasive. He's likable and all round a witty and engaging 'bloke'.

    So in answer to Eagles question "if the proverbial bus....." it would be between Reeves and Streeting. Maybe Reeves

    Damn, I also think Wes Streeting is the best of Labour's top team, but now Rog has given him the seal of approval, that's probably buggered that.
    I think it is unlikely but if the job came vacant then surely it has to be Reeves as first labour woman PM
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,573

    Andy_JS said:

    Thanks to these idiots we're probably going to have to start paying for restaurant meals up-front.

    https://www.itv.com/news/2024-09-26/the-rise-of-dine-and-dash-a-third-of-hospitality-businesses-out-of-pocket

    Or they take a card and pre-approve a certain amount when ordering. Then they have got your details, a card number and some money in deposit. Its all a bit sad that it would have to come to this because of the action of a few.
    A minor inconvenience to no longer have to subsidise those who steal.
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