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What we think about Reform – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,047
edited September 20 in General
What we think about Reform – politicalbetting.com

As the Reform UK conference begins in Birmingham, what terms do Britons pick to describe the party?Extremist: 39%Should not be near power: 39%Nasty: 33%Dishonest: 31%Only interested in themselves: 29%Has unworkable policies: 27%Unprofessional: 26%Has a clear sense of… pic.twitter.com/IoGwxYOArE

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Comments

  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 17,444
    Last.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 17,444
    If, say, pro-Trump Jenrick becomes leader of the opposition, then he might be successful in making Trumpism the mainstream position on the British Right.

    I think people are missing the profound consequences that such a change might have on British politics.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,112
    LostPassword said:

    If, say, pro-Trump Jenrick becomes leader of the opposition, then he might be successful in making Trumpism the mainstream position on the British Right.

    I think people are missing the profound consequences that such a change might have on British politics.

    A lot will depend on how Trump himself does. If he wins, and probably thereby consolidates power for a generation, the right wing in other Anglo Saxon countries will inevitably become Trumpist through natural selection. If he loses, especially if he loses badly, then I think there will be some sort of backlash in the GOP and an attempt over here to create some distance.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 21,866
    Is this a new thread, or is no one interested in the Leeanderthal Man?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,358
    ...
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,349
    LostPassword said:

    If, say, pro-Trump Jenrick becomes leader of the opposition, then he might be successful in making Trumpism the mainstream position on the British Right.

    I think people are missing the profound consequences that such a change might have on British politics.

    The new Tory leader will be announced on 2nd November, three days before Trump loses.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,380
    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    So, even Lee Anderson thinks Jim D is history? That's got to hurt.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,380
    Got to love those Lib Dems who are also Reform-lovers :heart:
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 27,674
    LostPassword said:

    If, say, pro-Trump Jenrick becomes leader of the opposition, then he might be successful in making Trumpism the mainstream position on the British Right.

    I think people are missing the profound consequences that such a change might have on British politics.

    It wouldn't be a change at all - it would be a continuation of the Tories supporting the Republican candidate as the fellow right wing party. The 'change' is in the Tories siding with the Democrats because Trump is just too ghastly and they're too concerned about being placed 'beyond the pale' by the prevailing liberal consensus. Jenrick is resuming the status quo.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,455
    Selebian said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    So, even Lee Anderson thinks Jim D is history? That's got to hurt.
    I would have thought Bernard Manning was the Reform comedy legend of choice?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,455
    MattW said:

    Is this a new thread, or is no one interested in the Leeanderthal Man?

    Both.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,455
    LostPassword said:

    If, say, pro-Trump Jenrick becomes leader of the opposition, then he might be successful in making Trumpism the mainstream position on the British Right.

    I think people are missing the profound consequences that such a change might have on British politics.

    Indeed. It is a huge worry. On the other hand LibDems in their new yellow wall in SE/W will be delighted if Jenrick is elected leader and carries on with his Trump act.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 17,444
    TimS said:

    LostPassword said:

    If, say, pro-Trump Jenrick becomes leader of the opposition, then he might be successful in making Trumpism the mainstream position on the British Right.

    I think people are missing the profound consequences that such a change might have on British politics.

    A lot will depend on how Trump himself does. If he wins, and probably thereby consolidates power for a generation, the right wing in other Anglo Saxon countries will inevitably become Trumpist through natural selection. If he loses, especially if he loses badly, then I think there will be some sort of backlash in the GOP and an attempt over here to create some distance.
    That's what everyone said would happen after Trump lost in 2020.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,159
    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Anabobazina said:

    Leon said:

    Anabobazina said:

    Leon said:

    Everyone citing tbat Techne poll is wilfully ignoring the movement from the last Techne poll (which is the only movement that counts)

    Here’s their last poll on election day

    Lab 40% (-1)
    Cons 21% (+2)
    Lib Dems 11% (-1)
    Reform 16% (-1)
    Greens 6% (+1)
    SNP 3% (=)
    Others 3% (=)


    https://x.com/techneuk/status/1808413756679930254?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    So Labour have actually plunged SEVEN points in 10 weeks. Given that Techne seem to wildly overstate Labour (40% on election day??) then Labour in reality might be down in the 20s

    Are you "unskewing" the polls now?

    Remember Mike's golden rule: an outlier is a poll you don't like.
    Actually it’s not an outlier. It shows Labour down seven since the GE - a dramatic fall

    Opinium in Scotland shows a similar fall, albeit even greater. Ten points (albeit using the GE as a marker)


    New Scotland Only Westminster poll, Opinium 5-11 Sep (changes vs GE 2024):

    SNP ~ 32% (+2)
    Lab ~ 25% (-10)
    Con ~ 14% (+1)
    RUK ~ 11% (+4)
    LD ~ 8% (-2)
    Grn ~ 7% (+3)
    The poll shows Labour well ahead despite doing unpopular stuff. It is an excellent poll for Labour.

    Again – again! – Labour are not courting popularity. Indeed they would be mad to do so FIVE YEARS from an election.

    They are scraping the barnacles off the boat. Get the shit out of the way early and take the hit.

    Yet they remain streets ahead of the Tories, nevertheless.

    Good for them.

    What are these amazingly unpopular decisions they’ve taken that are nonetheless gonna steer UK into prosperity?

    They’ve taken winter fuel off pensioners. Saving £1.5bn. That’s it. That’s the barnacle removed, now, following that immensely brave choice we can look forward to the sunny uplands. Right?

    They are dreadful. Venal, petty, woke, puritan, hypocritical, talentless and devoid of any ideas at all
    I agree. A clear improvement on the last lot.
    I don't see how you can say that. They're just as incompetent and apparently about as dodgy with their donors plus they've just about managed to talk the nation into a recession after inheriting an annualised growth rate of 2.5%, you're a sensible person and I expect there's a level of buyer's remorse here that you're unwilling to face right now but you and a couple of million others abandoned the Tories and the nation is going to pay a very steep price.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,753
    Nice visual joke from Farage re his glasses
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,369
    Just heard something unusual - three French chaps jabbering away in French but with almost comedy German accents. I now know what a French version of Allo Allo would sound like.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,037
    boulay said:

    Just heard something unusual - three French chaps jabbering away in French but with almost comedy German accents. I now know what a French version of Allo Allo would sound like.

    Alsatians?
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,705
    state_go_away said:

    Nice visual joke from Farage re his glasses

    Ein joke, ein pint, ein fuerher.....
  • MattWMattW Posts: 21,866
    Interesting policy proposal from Anne Widdicombe at the Reform Rally:

    Put prisoners in disused holiday camps, Ann Widdecombe tells Reform conference
    Prisoners should be put in disused holiday camps, Ann Widdecombe has told the Reform UK conference.

    I wonder how that will go down with voters in Clacton, Skegness, Boston and Great Yarmouth ? :wink:
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,369
    edited September 20
    Alphabet_Soup said:

    boulay said:

    Just heard something unusual - three French chaps jabbering away in French but with almost comedy German accents. I now know what a French version of Allo Allo would sound like.

    Alsatians?
    No, definitely humans.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,705
    MattW said:

    Interesting policy proposal from Anne Widdicombe at the Reform Rally:

    Put prisoners in disused holiday camps, Ann Widdecombe tells Reform conference
    Prisoners should be put in disused holiday camps, Ann Widdecombe has told the Reform UK conference.

    I wonder how that will go down with voters in Clacton, Skegness, Boston and Great Yarmouth ? :wink:

    Hi de hi...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 120,999
    27% with a high favourable rating for Reform though is a reasonably high ceiling for Farage. Almost double the 14% it got at the general election. Higher than the Tories general election voteshare and not much below Labour’s current voteshare.

    Interesting though that slightly more 2024 Tories have a negative than positive view of the party. Suggesting most of the 2019 Boris voters who might have voted Reform have already left for it.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 17,444
    MattW said:

    Interesting policy proposal from Anne Widdicombe at the Reform Rally:

    Put prisoners in disused holiday camps, Ann Widdecombe tells Reform conference
    Prisoners should be put in disused holiday camps, Ann Widdecombe has told the Reform UK conference.

    I wonder how that will go down with voters in Clacton, Skegness, Boston and Great Yarmouth ? :wink:

    That's the sort of policy where, if Labour proposed it, Reform would deride it as Labour sending prisoners on holiday.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,705
    LostPassword said:

    MattW said:

    Interesting policy proposal from Anne Widdicombe at the Reform Rally:

    Put prisoners in disused holiday camps, Ann Widdecombe tells Reform conference
    Prisoners should be put in disused holiday camps, Ann Widdecombe has told the Reform UK conference.

    I wonder how that will go down with voters in Clacton, Skegness, Boston and Great Yarmouth ? :wink:

    That's the sort of policy where, if Labour proposed it, Reform would deride it as Labour sending prisoners on holiday.
    Who would be the prison officers? Ted Bovis and Mavis Pugh?
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,037
    edited September 20
    MattW said:

    Interesting policy proposal from Anne Widdicombe at the Reform Rally:

    Put prisoners in disused holiday camps, Ann Widdecombe tells Reform conference
    Prisoners should be put in disused holiday camps, Ann Widdecombe has told the Reform UK conference.

    I wonder how that will go down with voters in Clacton, Skegness, Boston and Great Yarmouth ? :wink:


    Or Clwyd East?

    There's an ideal punishment block in Prestatyn with vacant possession:

    https://www.rhyljournal.co.uk/news/24542029.pontins-prestatyn-horrendous-state-left-rot/
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,743
    South Carolina to execute man despite bombshell admission from key witness
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/sep/20/south-carolina-death-row-prisoner-execution
    South Carolina is set to execute a man on death row on Friday, days after the key witness for the prosecution came forward to say he lied at trial and the state was putting to death an innocent man.

    Khalil Divine Black Sun Allah, 46, is due to be killed by lethal injection at 6pm. His lawyers filed emergency motions for a delay this week, citing new testimony suggesting he was wrongfully convicted. But the state supreme court ruled Thursday that the execution should proceed.

    The last hope for Allah, who was previously known as Freddie Owens, is a grant of clemency from the state’s Republican governor, who has said he would announce a decision just before the execution is set to start.

    Allah’s execution would be the first in 13 years in South Carolina and could be the start of a rapid series of executions in the coming months...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,419
    Daveyboy1961 said:

    LostPassword said:

    MattW said:

    Interesting policy proposal from Anne Widdicombe at the Reform Rally:

    Put prisoners in disused holiday camps, Ann Widdecombe tells Reform conference
    Prisoners should be put in disused holiday camps, Ann Widdecombe has told the Reform UK conference.

    I wonder how that will go down with voters in Clacton, Skegness, Boston and Great Yarmouth ? :wink:

    That's the sort of policy where, if Labour proposed it, Reform would deride it as Labour sending prisoners on holiday.
    Who would be the prison officers? Ted Bovis and Mavis Pugh?
    The idea is obvious nonsense.

    Put them in Portmeirion.

    The guard required will be a weather balloon.

    Be seeing you.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 120,999
    LostPassword said:

    If, say, pro-Trump Jenrick becomes leader of the opposition, then he might be successful in making Trumpism the mainstream position on the British Right.

    I think people are missing the profound consequences that such a change might have on British politics.

    Farage is a Trumpite. Jenrick, a Cameroon ex Remainer isn’t really he is just anti Harris. Indeed Badenoch with her meetings with DeSantis has closer GOP links than him.

    Jenrick with his push to get the Tories delivering more affordable housing is actually closer to Canadian Conservative leader Poilivre who he has met unlike Trump.

    Am heading to a hustings for Essex Conservatives tonight with Jenrick, Cleverly and Badenoch and Doyle Price representing Tugendhat who has another engagement. Will report back later


  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,014
    Starmer, Reeves and Rayner will not accept any further donations for clothes

    Closing the stable door after the horse has bolted springs to mind
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,112
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Starmer, Reeves and Rayner will not accept any further donations for clothes

    Closing the stable door after the horse has bolted springs to mind

    Better optics than continuing to try to explain it. Trouble is the journos will now turn to the Arsenal box. They were more sure footed on this kind of thing pre-election, maybe they will rediscover the art of killing a story early.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 41,460
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Starmer, Reeves and Rayner will not accept any further donations for clothes

    Closing the stable door after the horse has bolted springs to mind

    Just clothes? That leaves *a lot* open for donation.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,860
    Off topic, but I think many of you will find this of interest: "An AP-NORC poll released Thursday showed voters said by double digits (38-28) that they expect Harris to win. That’s reversed from shortly after her entry into the race in late July, when voters said by double digits (56-42) that Trump would win.

    An Economist-YouGov poll released Wednesday showed much the same thing. Voters by double digits (42-32) expected Harris to win, after saying so by just three points in YouGov polling last month and saying by 19 points that Trump would win back in July.
    . . .
    A 2012 paper from economists David Rothschild of Microsoft Research and Justin Wolfers of the University of Michigan actually found that this question was more predictive of election outcomes than polls of voting intent.

    Looking at 60 years of state polls that asked such questions, it found that the presidential candidates people expected to win won those states 81 percent of the time, while the polling leaders won 69 percent of the time."
    (Links omitted.)
    source$: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/09/19/more-voters-expect-harris-win-heres-why-that-could-actually-matter/

    For the record: I haven't read the paper, or even had time to think hard about this argument. But, if I were a serious bettor, I think I would spend some time doing both. Be interesting to know whether a similar pattern could be found in the UK.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 21,866
    Alphabet_Soup said:

    MattW said:

    Interesting policy proposal from Anne Widdicombe at the Reform Rally:

    Put prisoners in disused holiday camps, Ann Widdecombe tells Reform conference
    Prisoners should be put in disused holiday camps, Ann Widdecombe has told the Reform UK conference.

    I wonder how that will go down with voters in Clacton, Skegness, Boston and Great Yarmouth ? :wink:


    Or Clwyd East?

    There's an ideal punishment block in Prestatyn with vacant possession:

    https://www.rhyljournal.co.uk/news/24542029.pontins-prestatyn-horrendous-state-left-rot/
    That one could have been used - I know it quite will. That's around the corner from where one set of grandparents retired.

    Enclosed, full facilities etc, and only just closed under a year ago.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,380
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Starmer, Reeves and Rayner will not accept any further donations for clothes

    Closing the stable door after the horse has bolted springs to mind

    All donations now to be processed through Streeting, Lammy & Cooper? :innocent:

    (Starmer Reeves Rayner sounds like a firm of country solicitors. So does Streeting Lammy Cooper, I guess... Maybe it works for any three names put together?)
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,112
    Alphabet_Soup said:

    MattW said:

    Interesting policy proposal from Anne Widdicombe at the Reform Rally:

    Put prisoners in disused holiday camps, Ann Widdecombe tells Reform conference
    Prisoners should be put in disused holiday camps, Ann Widdecombe has told the Reform UK conference.

    I wonder how that will go down with voters in Clacton, Skegness, Boston and Great Yarmouth ? :wink:


    Or Clwyd East?

    There's an ideal punishment block in Prestatyn with vacant possession:

    https://www.rhyljournal.co.uk/news/24542029.pontins-prestatyn-horrendous-state-left-rot/
    Put the white collar criminals in Center Parcs, the older convicts in HPB properties, and any Dutch nationals in our prison system can be shipped off to Eurocamp.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,112
    Selebian said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Starmer, Reeves and Rayner will not accept any further donations for clothes

    Closing the stable door after the horse has bolted springs to mind

    All donations now to be processed through Streeting, Lammy & Cooper? :innocent:

    (Starmer Reeves Rayner sounds like a firm of country solicitors. So does Streeting Lammy Cooper, I guess... Maybe it works for any three names put together?)
    Reeves Rayner sounds similar to Reeds Rains (estate agents)
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 50,603
    JosiasJessop said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Starmer, Reeves and Rayner will not accept any further donations for clothes

    Closing the stable door after the horse has bolted springs to mind

    Just clothes? That leaves *a lot* open for donation.
    Handbags?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,743
    Malmesbury said:

    Daveyboy1961 said:

    LostPassword said:

    MattW said:

    Interesting policy proposal from Anne Widdicombe at the Reform Rally:

    Put prisoners in disused holiday camps, Ann Widdecombe tells Reform conference
    Prisoners should be put in disused holiday camps, Ann Widdecombe has told the Reform UK conference.

    I wonder how that will go down with voters in Clacton, Skegness, Boston and Great Yarmouth ? :wink:

    That's the sort of policy where, if Labour proposed it, Reform would deride it as Labour sending prisoners on holiday.
    Who would be the prison officers? Ted Bovis and Mavis Pugh?
    The idea is obvious nonsense.

    Put them in Portmeirion.

    The guard required will be a weather balloon.

    Be seeing you.

    Somewhat insecure.

    The nearby, noom-free Harlech Castle, on the other hand...


  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,380
    Nigelb said:

    South Carolina to execute man despite bombshell admission from key witness
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/sep/20/south-carolina-death-row-prisoner-execution
    South Carolina is set to execute a man on death row on Friday, days after the key witness for the prosecution came forward to say he lied at trial and the state was putting to death an innocent man.

    Khalil Divine Black Sun Allah, 46, is due to be killed by lethal injection at 6pm. His lawyers filed emergency motions for a delay this week, citing new testimony suggesting he was wrongfully convicted. But the state supreme court ruled Thursday that the execution should proceed.

    The last hope for Allah, who was previously known as Freddie Owens, is a grant of clemency from the state’s Republican governor, who has said he would announce a decision just before the execution is set to start.

    Allah’s execution would be the first in 13 years in South Carolina and could be the start of a rapid series of executions in the coming months...

    Apart from the more fundamental issue, "the state’s Republican governor, who has said he would announce a decision just before the execution is set to start", is seriously fucked up. We might kill you, we might not. We'll make you wait until just before you're going to die (or maybe not) before we tell you. Why not go the whole way and not even announce it before the jab - just inject him with some saline if they decide to spare him? Maximum lolz.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,380
    TimS said:

    Alphabet_Soup said:

    MattW said:

    Interesting policy proposal from Anne Widdicombe at the Reform Rally:

    Put prisoners in disused holiday camps, Ann Widdecombe tells Reform conference
    Prisoners should be put in disused holiday camps, Ann Widdecombe has told the Reform UK conference.

    I wonder how that will go down with voters in Clacton, Skegness, Boston and Great Yarmouth ? :wink:


    Or Clwyd East?

    There's an ideal punishment block in Prestatyn with vacant possession:

    https://www.rhyljournal.co.uk/news/24542029.pontins-prestatyn-horrendous-state-left-rot/
    Put the white collar criminals in Center Parcs, the older convicts in HPB properties, and any Dutch nationals in our prison system can be shipped off to Eurocamp.
    Prostitutes/pimps to be sent to Ho Seasons lodges?
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,380
    JosiasJessop said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Starmer, Reeves and Rayner will not accept any further donations for clothes

    Closing the stable door after the horse has bolted springs to mind

    Just clothes? That leaves *a lot* open for donation.
    The whole thing makes them sound like an Oxfam shop. "We're currently not accepting clothes donations, but bring us your old DVDs"
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,643
    HYUFD said:

    LostPassword said:

    If, say, pro-Trump Jenrick becomes leader of the opposition, then he might be successful in making Trumpism the mainstream position on the British Right.

    I think people are missing the profound consequences that such a change might have on British politics.

    Farage is a Trumpite. Jenrick, a Cameroon ex Remainer isn’t really he is just anti Harris. Indeed Badenoch with her meetings with DeSantis has closer GOP links than him.

    Jenrick with his push to get the Tories delivering more affordable housing is actually closer to Canadian Conservative leader Poilivre who he has met unlike Trump.

    Am heading to a hustings for Essex Conservatives tonight with Jenrick, Cleverly and Badenoch and Doyle Price representing Tugendhat who has another engagement. Will report back later
    I have been long of the view Jenrick is Britain's Poilievre though the parallels are far from exact.

    Poilievre uses a combination of humour and anger which probably works well in Canada but may not be so useful in Britain where we already have humour (Davey) and anger (Farage). Jenrick has also to quickly develop and articulate alternative positions to Labour across the spectrum of policies and I see little signs of the Conservatives having got to grips with the policy implications of their electoral disaster.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,743
    Unambiguous evidence that there is a market for SMRs, if they can be delivered promptly.

    Three Mile Island is pretty knackered, and they are paying top dollar.

    BREAKING: BLOCKBUSTER MICROSOFT DATACENTER DEAL RESURRECTING THREE MILE ISLAND NUCLEAR PLANT

    Microsoft and nuclear plant owner Constellation have agreed to a massive, unprecedented deal to restart the closed Three Mile Island by 2028 to power its datacenters, per the New York Times.

    The deal? Microsoft purchasing as much power as possible from its 880 MW reactor over 20 years for prices rumored to be above $100 per MWh.

    Most famous for its 1979 meltdown, TMI closed in 2019 because of cheap fossil fuels and tech companies refusing at the time to consider buying its electricity to meet clean energy goals.
    https://x.com/energybants/status/1837087635208294640
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 80,350
    Selebian said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Starmer, Reeves and Rayner will not accept any further donations for clothes

    Closing the stable door after the horse has bolted springs to mind

    Just clothes? That leaves *a lot* open for donation.
    The whole thing makes them sound like an Oxfam shop. "We're currently not accepting clothes donations, but bring us your old DVDs"
    There was quite a funny meme on social media where somebody has superimposed one of the clothes bank donation bins you see in supermarket car parks outside the doors of #10.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 80,350
    edited September 20
    Starmer's initial response, go f##k yourself, I will still take clothes donations didn't last long. However, again the response is very lawyerly. It leaves open possibility of still happy to take all sorts of other personal donations. If you really want to shut this down, you say no personal donations (however unfair, because plenty of other previous leaders have been happy to take them and MPs will continue to do so), any donations must be to the party.

    I am still interested in that Ange trip to NYC that she claims cost basically buttons for staying in a super high end apartment. How often are MP's pulling this trick of coming up with the least possible figure for such a donation in kind?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 16,540
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Starmer, Reeves and Rayner will not accept any further donations for clothes

    Closing the stable door after the horse has bolted springs to mind

    Bit graceless, if I may say so.

    Yes, the best time to do this would have been before accepting the donation. The next best would have been when the story broke. The best time available to them was now.

    And for those of us expecting "mediocre but a lot better than the last lot", Starmer's performance here is pretty much what we might have expected.

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,327
    MaxPB said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Anabobazina said:

    Leon said:

    Anabobazina said:

    Leon said:

    Everyone citing tbat Techne poll is wilfully ignoring the movement from the last Techne poll (which is the only movement that counts)

    Here’s their last poll on election day

    Lab 40% (-1)
    Cons 21% (+2)
    Lib Dems 11% (-1)
    Reform 16% (-1)
    Greens 6% (+1)
    SNP 3% (=)
    Others 3% (=)


    https://x.com/techneuk/status/1808413756679930254?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    So Labour have actually plunged SEVEN points in 10 weeks. Given that Techne seem to wildly overstate Labour (40% on election day??) then Labour in reality might be down in the 20s

    Are you "unskewing" the polls now?

    Remember Mike's golden rule: an outlier is a poll you don't like.
    Actually it’s not an outlier. It shows Labour down seven since the GE - a dramatic fall

    Opinium in Scotland shows a similar fall, albeit even greater. Ten points (albeit using the GE as a marker)


    New Scotland Only Westminster poll, Opinium 5-11 Sep (changes vs GE 2024):

    SNP ~ 32% (+2)
    Lab ~ 25% (-10)
    Con ~ 14% (+1)
    RUK ~ 11% (+4)
    LD ~ 8% (-2)
    Grn ~ 7% (+3)
    The poll shows Labour well ahead despite doing unpopular stuff. It is an excellent poll for Labour.

    Again – again! – Labour are not courting popularity. Indeed they would be mad to do so FIVE YEARS from an election.

    They are scraping the barnacles off the boat. Get the shit out of the way early and take the hit.

    Yet they remain streets ahead of the Tories, nevertheless.

    Good for them.

    What are these amazingly unpopular decisions they’ve taken that are nonetheless gonna steer UK into prosperity?

    They’ve taken winter fuel off pensioners. Saving £1.5bn. That’s it. That’s the barnacle removed, now, following that immensely brave choice we can look forward to the sunny uplands. Right?

    They are dreadful. Venal, petty, woke, puritan, hypocritical, talentless and devoid of any ideas at all
    I agree. A clear improvement on the last lot.
    I don't see how you can say that. They're just as incompetent and apparently about as dodgy with their donors plus they've just about managed to talk the nation into a recession after inheriting an annualised growth rate of 2.5%, you're a sensible person and I expect there's a level of buyer's remorse here that you're unwilling to face right now but you and a couple of million others abandoned the Tories and the nation is going to pay a very steep price.
    One, it was a joke. Two, @Leon made the point that they were devoid of ideas. The Tories had some terrible ideas, such as Rwanda. Three, as a matter of fact I did vote Tory at the election for Unionist reasons given what seat I am in. They lost my constituency. Four, our growth in the first half of this year, although welcome, was being driven by a frankly insane deficit artificially and unsustainably boosting demand. Getting to 100% of GDP today is the consequence of that profligacy.

    Basically, it was a joke with enough truth in it to be mildly amusing. And that is the best we can hope for right now.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,014
    edited September 20
    Stuartinromford said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Starmer, Reeves and Rayner will not accept any further donations for clothes

    Closing the stable door after the horse has bolted springs to mind

    Bit graceless, if I may say so.

    Yes, the best time to do this would have been before accepting the donation. The next best would have been when the story broke. The best time available to them was now.

    And for those of us expecting "mediocre but a lot better than the last lot", Starmer's performance here is pretty much what we might have expected.

    It certainly wasn't what I expected and in truth I did not have great hopes for him but certainly his £100,000 of freebies has undermined all his rhetoric of cleaning up politics
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 22,457
    ….
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 80,350
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Stuartinromford said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Starmer, Reeves and Rayner will not accept any further donations for clothes

    Closing the stable door after the horse has bolted springs to mind

    Bit graceless, if I may say so.

    Yes, the best time to do this would have been before accepting the donation. The next best would have been when the story broke. The best time available to them was now.

    And for those of us expecting "mediocre but a lot better than the last lot", Starmer's performance here is pretty much what we might have expected.

    It certainly wasn't what I expected and in truth I did not have great hopes for him but certainly his £100,000 of freebies has undermined all his rhetoric of cleaning up politics
    Going to be interesting the reaction of MPs if they go through and try and ban second jobs.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 21,866
    Selebian said:

    TimS said:

    Alphabet_Soup said:

    MattW said:

    Interesting policy proposal from Anne Widdicombe at the Reform Rally:

    Put prisoners in disused holiday camps, Ann Widdecombe tells Reform conference
    Prisoners should be put in disused holiday camps, Ann Widdecombe has told the Reform UK conference.

    I wonder how that will go down with voters in Clacton, Skegness, Boston and Great Yarmouth ? :wink:


    Or Clwyd East?

    There's an ideal punishment block in Prestatyn with vacant possession:

    https://www.rhyljournal.co.uk/news/24542029.pontins-prestatyn-horrendous-state-left-rot/
    Put the white collar criminals in Center Parcs, the older convicts in HPB properties, and any Dutch nationals in our prison system can be shipped off to Eurocamp.
    Prostitutes/pimps to be sent to Ho Seasons lodges?
    I thought Hoseasons did .. er .. small boats for hire.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,860
    Nigelb may be interested in this story -- which supports his argument: https://www.cnbc.com/2024/09/10/oracle-is-designing-a-data-center-that-would-be-powered-by-three-small-nuclear-reactors.html
  • partypoliticalorphanpartypoliticalorphan Posts: 348
    This news rather puts Boris' Partygate misdemeanours in the shade.

    Former NYC Covid-19 czar partied while preaching social distancing

    https://www.straitstimes.com/world/united-states/former-nyc-covid-19-czar-partied-while-preaching-social-distancing
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 120,999
    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    LostPassword said:

    If, say, pro-Trump Jenrick becomes leader of the opposition, then he might be successful in making Trumpism the mainstream position on the British Right.

    I think people are missing the profound consequences that such a change might have on British politics.

    Farage is a Trumpite. Jenrick, a Cameroon ex Remainer isn’t really he is just anti Harris. Indeed Badenoch with her meetings with DeSantis has closer GOP links than him.

    Jenrick with his push to get the Tories delivering more affordable housing is actually closer to Canadian Conservative leader Poilivre who he has met unlike Trump.

    Am heading to a hustings for Essex Conservatives tonight with Jenrick, Cleverly and Badenoch and Doyle Price representing Tugendhat who has another engagement. Will report back later
    I have been long of the view Jenrick is Britain's Poilievre though the parallels are far from exact.

    Poilievre uses a combination of humour and anger which probably works well in Canada but may not be so useful in Britain where we already have humour (Davey) and anger (Farage). Jenrick has also to quickly develop and articulate alternative positions to Labour across the spectrum of policies and I see little signs of the Conservatives having got to grips with the policy implications of their electoral disaster.
    Poilievre is helped by the Canadian Conservatives having been in opposition for 9 years and time for a change mood. Though at the rate Starmer is going he could soon be as unpopular as Trudeau despite Labour only having been in government a few months
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 80,350
    edited September 20
    Have we done this?

    Angela Rayner and Rachel Reeves declared clothing donations as office support

    UK deputy prime minister Angela Rayner has refused to say whether an opaque £3,550 donation from Lord Waheed Alli in June was free clothing, despite parliamentary rules saying the nature of any such donations “in kind” should be declared.

    https://www.ft.com/content/2a218255-c08e-4091-8c7a-f51dd46795be

    It seems they again haven't been totally honest about what these donations were. Again, like the under-estimating the value, is this a common tactic?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 22,457
    edited September 20
    On topic: not much.

    Lee Anderson is just the sort of scruffy, nasty little bigot who populated the pubs in the industrial town I grew up in. One of the big advantages of his moving to Reform is we rarely see him on the telly now: he simply preaches to the converted at gatherings of the cult.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,743
    Jim_Miller said:

    Nigelb may be interested in this story -- which supports his argument: https://www.cnbc.com/2024/09/10/oracle-is-designing-a-data-center-that-would-be-powered-by-three-small-nuclear-reactors.html

    Thanks, Jim. I did see that.

    The TMI story is perhaps even more remarkable, as it's a four decade old plant, with one of the more notorious histories. And Microsoft are paying big money to keep it operational for another twenty years.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 21,866
    edited September 20
    The Leeanderthal Man is giving a few couple of testable predictions.

    "Nigel in Number Ten in 2029". A bit David Steel-escue.
    "Next year we are going to win hundreds of Council seats across the country. That's a fact."

    I can't spot a single positive thing in his entire speech.

    The one thing it reminds me of is the televised darts tournaments. Where's Sid Waddell?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,327
    The Reform Acts of 1832, 1867 and 1918 in particular were a good thing. The latest manifestation not so much.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,695
    Slalom originally declared his and Vic's free gear as "other office expenses"

    He's corrected it now, but was he incompetently wrong, or dishonestly so, when he made the first declaration?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 80,350
    edited September 20
    BlancheLivermore said:

    Slalom originally declared his and Vic's free gear as "other office expenses"

    He's corrected it now, but was he incompetently wrong, or dishonestly so, when he made the first declaration?

    For Mr forensic lawyer he is very sloppy with paperwork. Glad he isn't my legal counsel.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 120,999
    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    LostPassword said:

    If, say, pro-Trump Jenrick becomes leader of the opposition, then he might be successful in making Trumpism the mainstream position on the British Right.

    I think people are missing the profound consequences that such a change might have on British politics.

    Farage is a Trumpite. Jenrick, a Cameroon ex Remainer isn’t really he is just anti Harris. Indeed Badenoch with her meetings with DeSantis has closer GOP links than him.

    Jenrick with his push to get the Tories delivering more affordable housing is actually closer to Canadian Conservative leader Poilivre who he has met unlike Trump.

    Am heading to a hustings for Essex Conservatives tonight with Jenrick, Cleverly and Badenoch and Doyle Price representing Tugendhat who has another engagement. Will report back later
    I have been long of the view Jenrick is Britain's Poilievre though the parallels are far from exact.

    Poilievre uses a combination of humour and anger which probably works well in Canada but may not be so useful in Britain where we already have humour (Davey) and anger (Farage). Jenrick has also to quickly develop and articulate alternative positions to Labour across the spectrum of policies and I see little signs of the Conservatives having got to grips with the policy implications of their electoral disaster.
    Poilievre is helped by the Canadian Conservatives having been in opposition for 9 years and time for a change mood. Though at the rate Starmer is going he could soon be as unpopular as Trudeau despite Labour only having been in government a few months
    Jenrick also has some similarities to Merz, German CDU Leader, another ex corporate lawyer trying to harden his party line on immigration
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,014
    It appears Reeves and Rayner have both accepted thousands of pounds worth of free clothes which weren't labelled as such in the register of Interests, apparently because they were registered as support for work duties

    How on earth have Labour got into this mess ?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 80,350
    edited September 20
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    It appears Reeves and Rayner have both accepted thousands of pounds worth of free clothes which weren't labelled as such in the register of Interests, apparently because they were registered as support for work duties

    How on earth have Labour got into this mess ?

    Greed.

    They have acted like z-list celebs from a reality show, anybody offers any sort of freebie, and they happily take it.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,695
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    It appears Reeves and Rayner have both accepted thousands of pounds worth of free clothes which weren't labelled as such in the register of Interests, apparently because they were registered as support for work duties

    How on earth have Labour got into this mess ?

    They were just following the Leader
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,092
    Selebian said:

    Nigelb said:

    South Carolina to execute man despite bombshell admission from key witness
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/sep/20/south-carolina-death-row-prisoner-execution
    South Carolina is set to execute a man on death row on Friday, days after the key witness for the prosecution came forward to say he lied at trial and the state was putting to death an innocent man.

    Khalil Divine Black Sun Allah, 46, is due to be killed by lethal injection at 6pm. His lawyers filed emergency motions for a delay this week, citing new testimony suggesting he was wrongfully convicted. But the state supreme court ruled Thursday that the execution should proceed.

    The last hope for Allah, who was previously known as Freddie Owens, is a grant of clemency from the state’s Republican governor, who has said he would announce a decision just before the execution is set to start.

    Allah’s execution would be the first in 13 years in South Carolina and could be the start of a rapid series of executions in the coming months...

    Apart from the more fundamental issue, "the state’s Republican governor, who has said he would announce a decision just before the execution is set to start", is seriously fucked up. We might kill you, we might not. We'll make you wait until just before you're going to die (or maybe not) before we tell you. Why not go the whole way and not even announce it before the jab - just inject him with some saline if they decide to spare him? Maximum lolz.
    "Your sentence has been commuted from Certain Death to Probable Death!"
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,014
    edited September 20
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    It appears Reeves and Rayner have both accepted thousands of pounds worth of free clothes which weren't labelled as such in the register of Interests, apparently because they were registered as support for work duties

    How on earth have Labour got into this mess ?

    Greed.
    Entitlement?
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,437
    edited September 20
    Jim_Miller said:

    Nigelb may be interested in this story -- which supports his argument: https://www.cnbc.com/2024/09/10/oracle-is-designing-a-data-center-that-would-be-powered-by-three-small-nuclear-reactors.html

    Rolls Royce need to get their backside in gear...

    On the same subject:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvglxne40p4o

    Nuclear power stations to be built in the Flatlands it seems. The picture in the Telegraph is of the wrong site (that's the land formerly used by ICI Fibres and International Harvesters), but hey.

    That's an airship factory and now a nuclear power factory in Doncaster. Interesting times.

    [Surprised it isn't nearer to Sheffield/Rotherham where the special steels manufacturing is]
  • mercatormercator Posts: 815
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Have we done this?

    Angela Rayner and Rachel Reeves declared clothing donations as office support

    UK deputy prime minister Angela Rayner has refused to say whether an opaque £3,550 donation from Lord Waheed Alli in June was free clothing, despite parliamentary rules saying the nature of any such donations “in kind” should be declared.

    https://www.ft.com/content/2a218255-c08e-4091-8c7a-f51dd46795be

    It seems they again haven't been totally honest about what these donations were. Again, like the under-estimating the value, is this a common tactic?


    .
    https://www.ft.com/content/2a218255-c08e-4091-8c7a-f51dd46795be

    'Rayner is one of seven cabinet ministers that received donations and gifts from Alli in the run-up to the July 4 general election, including foreign secretary David Lammy, health secretary Wes Streeting, and energy secretary Ed Miliband.

    The deputy prime minister has taken three other donations from the entrepreneur in the past year in addition to the £3,550 “donation in kind” in June.

    Rayner received £8,500 last October, £8,250 in March and £900 in April, all of which were declared as money “to support me in my capacity as deputy leader of the Labour party”.'

    One of seven. £17,650 (tax free?) in half a year plus 10k for the NY junket. Goodies for both Starmer and Rayner argues against personal friendship as the basis for these presents. He has set out to buy the government, who have behaved with all the dignity of everything in your trolley for free shoppers in a supermarket.

    This is almost not funny any more, but only almost.

    I said yesterday that Cooper was the only non joke GoS holder, and good for her for having apparently held back.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 80,350
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    It appears Reeves and Rayner have both accepted thousands of pounds worth of free clothes which weren't labelled as such in the register of Interests, apparently because they were registered as support for work duties

    How on earth have Labour got into this mess ?

    Its the cover-up that gets you.
  • mercatormercator Posts: 815
    BlancheLivermore said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    It appears Reeves and Rayner have both accepted thousands of pounds worth of free clothes which weren't labelled as such in the register of Interests, apparently because they were registered as support for work duties

    How on earth have Labour got into this mess ?

    They were just following the Leader
    Did you see my Essay on Portable Nutrition yesterday?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 50,603
    edited September 20
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    It appears Reeves and Rayner have both accepted thousands of pounds worth of free clothes which weren't labelled as such in the register of Interests, apparently because they were registered as support for work duties

    How on earth have Labour got into this mess ?

    Its the cover-up that gets you.
    Surely they can manage to cover up without free clothes?
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,695
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    It appears Reeves and Rayner have both accepted thousands of pounds worth of free clothes which weren't labelled as such in the register of Interests, apparently because they were registered as support for work duties

    How on earth have Labour got into this mess ?

    Greed.

    They have acted like z-list celebs from a reality show, anybody offers any sort of freebie, and they happily take it.
    I'm reminded of this supermarket sweep

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/greedy-cherie-has-a-lack-of-judgment-537763
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 27,674
    LostPassword said:

    MattW said:

    Interesting policy proposal from Anne Widdicombe at the Reform Rally:

    Put prisoners in disused holiday camps, Ann Widdecombe tells Reform conference
    Prisoners should be put in disused holiday camps, Ann Widdecombe has told the Reform UK conference.

    I wonder how that will go down with voters in Clacton, Skegness, Boston and Great Yarmouth ? :wink:

    That's the sort of policy where, if Labour proposed it, Reform would deride it as Labour sending prisoners on holiday.
    Moving on from Ann's policy, which I can't really judge given the rather scant information, I am a little surprised at the apparent storms of protests that are said to accompany proposed prison building in 'x' poor consitituencies. Why? Successful prison breaks seem vanishingly rare, and if successful, the escapees would hardly be likely to make a protracted nuisance of themselves - it would seem to be the best way to lose their newfound freedom.

    Apart from that rare negative, isn't the rest of it pretty much good to very good for the local economy?
  • mercatormercator Posts: 815
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    It appears Reeves and Rayner have both accepted thousands of pounds worth of free clothes which weren't labelled as such in the register of Interests, apparently because they were registered as support for work duties

    How on earth have Labour got into this mess ?

    Reeves. Chancellor. Monitor in charge of not lying to officials on money matters. I'm going to label my capital gains as insignificant fluctuations.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,014
    Luckyguy1983 said:

    LostPassword said:

    MattW said:

    Interesting policy proposal from Anne Widdicombe at the Reform Rally:

    Put prisoners in disused holiday camps, Ann Widdecombe tells Reform conference
    Prisoners should be put in disused holiday camps, Ann Widdecombe has told the Reform UK conference.

    I wonder how that will go down with voters in Clacton, Skegness, Boston and Great Yarmouth ? :wink:

    That's the sort of policy where, if Labour proposed it, Reform would deride it as Labour sending prisoners on holiday.
    Moving on from Ann's policy, which I can't really judge given the rather scant information, I am a little surprised at the apparent storms of protests that are said to accompany proposed prison building in 'x' poor consitituencies. Why? Successful prison breaks seem vanishingly rare, and if successful, the escapees would hardly be likely to make a protracted nuisance of themselves - it would seem to be the best way to lose their newfound freedom.

    Apart from that rare negative, isn't the rest of it pretty much good to very good for the local economy?
    I think most every community objects to prisons in their area
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 27,674
    ...
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Luckyguy1983 said:

    LostPassword said:

    MattW said:

    Interesting policy proposal from Anne Widdicombe at the Reform Rally:

    Put prisoners in disused holiday camps, Ann Widdecombe tells Reform conference
    Prisoners should be put in disused holiday camps, Ann Widdecombe has told the Reform UK conference.

    I wonder how that will go down with voters in Clacton, Skegness, Boston and Great Yarmouth ? :wink:

    That's the sort of policy where, if Labour proposed it, Reform would deride it as Labour sending prisoners on holiday.
    Moving on from Ann's policy, which I can't really judge given the rather scant information, I am a little surprised at the apparent storms of protests that are said to accompany proposed prison building in 'x' poor consitituencies. Why? Successful prison breaks seem vanishingly rare, and if successful, the escapees would hardly be likely to make a protracted nuisance of themselves - it would seem to be the best way to lose their newfound freedom.

    Apart from that rare negative, isn't the rest of it pretty much good to very good for the local economy?
    I think most every community objects to prisons in their area
    So I understand - I'm just trying to work out why.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 51,715
    Daveyboy1961 said:

    MattW said:

    Interesting policy proposal from Anne Widdicombe at the Reform Rally:

    Put prisoners in disused holiday camps, Ann Widdecombe tells Reform conference
    Prisoners should be put in disused holiday camps, Ann Widdecombe has told the Reform UK conference.

    I wonder how that will go down with voters in Clacton, Skegness, Boston and Great Yarmouth ? :wink:

    Hi de hi...
    Reform would actually put them on Maplin Sands....
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,014
    Luckyguy1983 said:

    ...

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Luckyguy1983 said:

    LostPassword said:

    MattW said:

    Interesting policy proposal from Anne Widdicombe at the Reform Rally:

    Put prisoners in disused holiday camps, Ann Widdecombe tells Reform conference
    Prisoners should be put in disused holiday camps, Ann Widdecombe has told the Reform UK conference.

    I wonder how that will go down with voters in Clacton, Skegness, Boston and Great Yarmouth ? :wink:

    That's the sort of policy where, if Labour proposed it, Reform would deride it as Labour sending prisoners on holiday.
    Moving on from Ann's policy, which I can't really judge given the rather scant information, I am a little surprised at the apparent storms of protests that are said to accompany proposed prison building in 'x' poor consitituencies. Why? Successful prison breaks seem vanishingly rare, and if successful, the escapees would hardly be likely to make a protracted nuisance of themselves - it would seem to be the best way to lose their newfound freedom.

    Apart from that rare negative, isn't the rest of it pretty much good to very good for the local economy?
    I think most every community objects to prisons in their area
    So I understand - I'm just trying to work out why.
    I think it is to do with their perceived safety for them and their children and effect on house prices but, maybe other factors come in to play
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,500
    DavidL said:

    The Reform Acts of 1832, 1867 and 1918 in particular were a good thing. The latest manifestation not so much.

    I do think it's a bit of an act still on the part of Farage and co. Whilst I thought quite well of Farage when he was championing the ills of the EU, I think he and his friends are now just seeking power for power's sake.
  • mercatormercator Posts: 815
    Luckyguy1983 said:

    ...

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Luckyguy1983 said:

    LostPassword said:

    MattW said:

    Interesting policy proposal from Anne Widdicombe at the Reform Rally:

    Put prisoners in disused holiday camps, Ann Widdecombe tells Reform conference
    Prisoners should be put in disused holiday camps, Ann Widdecombe has told the Reform UK conference.

    I wonder how that will go down with voters in Clacton, Skegness, Boston and Great Yarmouth ? :wink:

    That's the sort of policy where, if Labour proposed it, Reform would deride it as Labour sending prisoners on holiday.
    Moving on from Ann's policy, which I can't really judge given the rather scant information, I am a little surprised at the apparent storms of protests that are said to accompany proposed prison building in 'x' poor consitituencies. Why? Successful prison breaks seem vanishingly rare, and if successful, the escapees would hardly be likely to make a protracted nuisance of themselves - it would seem to be the best way to lose their newfound freedom.

    Apart from that rare negative, isn't the rest of it pretty much good to very good for the local economy?
    I think most every community objects to prisons in their area
    So I understand - I'm just trying to work out why.
    Families staying in the local B&Bs? Too many warders as neighbours? Encourages local drug trade?

    Just suggestions. I think I'd feel rather safe living near a prison.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 27,674
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Luckyguy1983 said:

    ...

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Luckyguy1983 said:

    LostPassword said:

    MattW said:

    Interesting policy proposal from Anne Widdicombe at the Reform Rally:

    Put prisoners in disused holiday camps, Ann Widdecombe tells Reform conference
    Prisoners should be put in disused holiday camps, Ann Widdecombe has told the Reform UK conference.

    I wonder how that will go down with voters in Clacton, Skegness, Boston and Great Yarmouth ? :wink:

    That's the sort of policy where, if Labour proposed it, Reform would deride it as Labour sending prisoners on holiday.
    Moving on from Ann's policy, which I can't really judge given the rather scant information, I am a little surprised at the apparent storms of protests that are said to accompany proposed prison building in 'x' poor consitituencies. Why? Successful prison breaks seem vanishingly rare, and if successful, the escapees would hardly be likely to make a protracted nuisance of themselves - it would seem to be the best way to lose their newfound freedom.

    Apart from that rare negative, isn't the rest of it pretty much good to very good for the local economy?
    I think most every community objects to prisons in their area
    So I understand - I'm just trying to work out why.
    I think it is to do with their perceived safety for them and their children and effect on house prices but, maybe other factors come in to play
    Perhaps. I can understand that in the case of an open prison, or asylum centre, or similar, but the defining feature of a prison is surely that the prisoners are shut in. Then it's just money.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 2,944
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Starmer, Reeves and Rayner will not accept any further donations for clothes

    Closing the stable door after the horse has bolted springs to mind

    That phraseology makes them sound like an overstocked charity shop.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,014
    Luckyguy1983 said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Luckyguy1983 said:

    ...

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Luckyguy1983 said:

    LostPassword said:

    MattW said:

    Interesting policy proposal from Anne Widdicombe at the Reform Rally:

    Put prisoners in disused holiday camps, Ann Widdecombe tells Reform conference
    Prisoners should be put in disused holiday camps, Ann Widdecombe has told the Reform UK conference.

    I wonder how that will go down with voters in Clacton, Skegness, Boston and Great Yarmouth ? :wink:

    That's the sort of policy where, if Labour proposed it, Reform would deride it as Labour sending prisoners on holiday.
    Moving on from Ann's policy, which I can't really judge given the rather scant information, I am a little surprised at the apparent storms of protests that are said to accompany proposed prison building in 'x' poor consitituencies. Why? Successful prison breaks seem vanishingly rare, and if successful, the escapees would hardly be likely to make a protracted nuisance of themselves - it would seem to be the best way to lose their newfound freedom.

    Apart from that rare negative, isn't the rest of it pretty much good to very good for the local economy?
    I think most every community objects to prisons in their area
    So I understand - I'm just trying to work out why.
    I think it is to do with their perceived safety for them and their children and effect on house prices but, maybe other factors come in to play
    Perhaps. I can understand that in the case of an open prison, or asylum centre, or similar, but the defining feature of a prison is surely that the prisoners are shut in. Then it's just money.
    Prisoners escape though
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,695
    mercator said:

    BlancheLivermore said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    It appears Reeves and Rayner have both accepted thousands of pounds worth of free clothes which weren't labelled as such in the register of Interests, apparently because they were registered as support for work duties

    How on earth have Labour got into this mess ?

    They were just following the Leader
    Did you see my Essay on Portable Nutrition yesterday?
    I did. Thanks for the advice, which seems very sensible

    But I'm still going to take my three tins of soup with me! I plan to do most of my eating in pubs so I won't need much portable food

    I'm considering drinking whisky on camping nights, so I won't have to carry quite so much beer with me and I'll have the space and strength to bear the weight of the soup

    Cullen Skink and Scotch sounds like a pretty awesome camping dinner to me
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,092
    MarqueeMark said:

    Daveyboy1961 said:

    MattW said:

    Interesting policy proposal from Anne Widdicombe at the Reform Rally:

    Put prisoners in disused holiday camps, Ann Widdecombe tells Reform conference
    Prisoners should be put in disused holiday camps, Ann Widdecombe has told the Reform UK conference.

    I wonder how that will go down with voters in Clacton, Skegness, Boston and Great Yarmouth ? :wink:

    Hi de hi...
    Reform would actually put them on Maplin Sands....
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beAXN8sCv7Q
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 80,350
    edited September 20
    The statement says it is only freebie clothes, does this mean if Starmer wants some new specs or some Oasis tickets, Lord Alli is still on speed dial?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 27,674
    mercator said:

    Luckyguy1983 said:

    ...

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Luckyguy1983 said:

    LostPassword said:

    MattW said:

    Interesting policy proposal from Anne Widdicombe at the Reform Rally:

    Put prisoners in disused holiday camps, Ann Widdecombe tells Reform conference
    Prisoners should be put in disused holiday camps, Ann Widdecombe has told the Reform UK conference.

    I wonder how that will go down with voters in Clacton, Skegness, Boston and Great Yarmouth ? :wink:

    That's the sort of policy where, if Labour proposed it, Reform would deride it as Labour sending prisoners on holiday.
    Moving on from Ann's policy, which I can't really judge given the rather scant information, I am a little surprised at the apparent storms of protests that are said to accompany proposed prison building in 'x' poor consitituencies. Why? Successful prison breaks seem vanishingly rare, and if successful, the escapees would hardly be likely to make a protracted nuisance of themselves - it would seem to be the best way to lose their newfound freedom.

    Apart from that rare negative, isn't the rest of it pretty much good to very good for the local economy?
    I think most every community objects to prisons in their area
    So I understand - I'm just trying to work out why.
    Families staying in the local B&Bs? Too many warders as neighbours? Encourages local drug trade?

    Just suggestions. I think I'd feel rather safe living near a prison.
    Quite. Safer than a university, army base, or hospital frankly.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 47,731
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    It appears Reeves and Rayner have both accepted thousands of pounds worth of free clothes which weren't labelled as such in the register of Interests, apparently because they were registered as support for work duties

    How on earth have Labour got into this mess ?

    Its the cover-up that gets you.
    They shouldn't skirt the issue, no matter how it suits them not to do so.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 80,350
    edited September 20
    Given all the recent incidents, I think I would be more worried about the behaviour of the prison officers than the prisoners...
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,053
    Foxy said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    It appears Reeves and Rayner have both accepted thousands of pounds worth of free clothes which weren't labelled as such in the register of Interests, apparently because they were registered as support for work duties

    How on earth have Labour got into this mess ?

    Its the cover-up that gets you.
    They shouldn't skirt the issue, no matter how it suits them not to do so.
    But what if they are not cape-able?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 51,715
    BlancheLivermore said:

    Slalom originally declared his and Vic's free gear as "other office expenses"

    He's corrected it now, but was he incompetently wrong, or dishonestly so, when he made the first declaration?

    I think "Downhill" might become more the more appropriate moniker....
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,014
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    The statement says it is only freebie clothes, does this mean if Starmer wants some new specs or some Oasis tickets, Lord Alli is still on speed dial?

    This story will run and run as at each event or football match Starmer will be asked who paid for it

    Indeed, now Reeves and Rayner have admitted they have also been taking lots of freebies the questions will just keep coming as with Lammy, Streeting, Miliband and others

    This threatens to become Partygate 2 or Freebiegate 1
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,014
    Foxy said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    It appears Reeves and Rayner have both accepted thousands of pounds worth of free clothes which weren't labelled as such in the register of Interests, apparently because they were registered as support for work duties

    How on earth have Labour got into this mess ?

    Its the cover-up that gets you.
    They shouldn't skirt the issue, no matter how it suits them not to do so.
    Very good
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,860
    This joke, told in many American states, may amuse some of you:

    Here's the Washington state version: Why did Walla Walla get the state prison, and Pullman got Washington State University?

    Walla Walla had the first pick;

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walla_Walla,_Washington
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pullman,_Washington

    (Could there be a UK equivalent? I have no idea.)
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 2,944
    Luckyguy1983 said:

    ...

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Luckyguy1983 said:

    LostPassword said:

    MattW said:

    Interesting policy proposal from Anne Widdicombe at the Reform Rally:

    Put prisoners in disused holiday camps, Ann Widdecombe tells Reform conference
    Prisoners should be put in disused holiday camps, Ann Widdecombe has told the Reform UK conference.

    I wonder how that will go down with voters in Clacton, Skegness, Boston and Great Yarmouth ? :wink:

    That's the sort of policy where, if Labour proposed it, Reform would deride it as Labour sending prisoners on holiday.
    Moving on from Ann's policy, which I can't really judge given the rather scant information, I am a little surprised at the apparent storms of protests that are said to accompany proposed prison building in 'x' poor consitituencies. Why? Successful prison breaks seem vanishingly rare, and if successful, the escapees would hardly be likely to make a protracted nuisance of themselves - it would seem to be the best way to lose their newfound freedom.

    Apart from that rare negative, isn't the rest of it pretty much good to very good for the local economy?
    I think most every community objects to prisons in their area
    So I understand - I'm just trying to work out why.
    AIUI there can be a lot of noise at night particularly - shouting, screaming, banging, etc.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 22,457
    Alanbrooke said:

    Anabobazina said:

    On topic: not much.

    Lee Anderson is just the sort of scruffy, nasty little bigot who populated the pubs in the industrial town I grew up in. One of the big advantages of his moving to Reform is we rarely see him on the telly now: he simply preaches to the converted at gatherings of the cult.

    Ah yes, the white trash argument.

    Youre so superior
    Nothing to do with white trash. He’s a bigot. Pure and simple.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 22,457
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    The statement says it is only freebie clothes, does this mean if Starmer wants some new specs or some Oasis tickets, Lord Alli is still on speed dial?

    This story will run and run as at each event or football match Starmer will be asked who paid for it

    Indeed, now Reeves and Rayner have admitted they have also been taking lots of freebies the questions will just keep coming as with Lammy, Streeting, Miliband and others

    This threatens to become Partygate 2 or Freebiegate 1
    It’s more like Donkeygate 2
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