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What we think about Reform – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • Roger said:

    Starmer should auction all the gifts he was given and give the prooeeds to charity. You should get a good premium for provenance

    There is a demand that Starmer, Reeves, Rayner and others repay the donations which is rather inevitable
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485

    Ed Davey has declared a total of £29,500 from 6 donors, and…

    Name of donor: Sudhir Choudhrie
    Address of donor: private
    Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: £25,000 this donation is for the sole purpose of providing additional personal care support to my young son, who has an undiagnosed neurological disorder resulting in severe physical and learning disabilities.
    Date received: 22 March 2024 to 31 October 2024
    Date accepted: 22 March 2024
    Donor status: individual

    Plus

    National Liberal Club Honorary life membership as Leader of the Liberal Democrats (value provided is that in 2023), value £798

    A seat at Viaro Energy's table at the London Air Ambulance Charity Gala, value £2,500

    And…

    Name of donor: The Football Association
    Address of donor: Wembley Stadium, Wembley, London HA9 0WS
    Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: Two hospitality tickets for me and a family member to attend Taylor Swift's "The Eras Tour", value £584

    It will probably be quicker to highlight the MPs that did NOT get football and Swift tickets
    There are some less well known MPs who declare nil, e.g. Kirsty Blackman (SNP) and Sorcha Eastwood (Alliance). Lots only declare small change, or expenses for Parliamentary group visits, or outside earnings that seem very reasonable (also being a councillor, final payments from employee before they were elected).
    I admire you two doing your best to justify Starmer and others freebies, but look at tonight's survation poll and realise this has cut through and the public do not like it
    Starmer and others… you are starting to twig!!

    How would you change the rules?

    Would you extend these rules to other businesses?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,644
    HYUFD said:

    Yes @williamglenn has hacked my account.

    Gold standard Gallup.poll has Trump two ahead of Harris but just look at Harris's underwater (-25) figures with independents. Bet accordingly.

    The end of US democracy starts on January 20, 2025. Brace, brace!

    Morning Consult meanwhile has Harris ahead in Wisconsin, Maryland, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Nevada, Virginia and Minnesota while Trump only leads in Texas, Florida, Ohio and Georgia.

    https://pro.morningconsult.com/trackers/2024-election-state-polls

    Could Trump be the first Republican presidential candidate to win the national popular vote but lose the EC?
    No.

    Interesting polling on the economy and immigration. Harris still behind Trump but has closed the gap substantially.

    https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/1837217861313458273?t=3PqozdMAdgPT31k-pvQS8g&s=19

    https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/1837216604578365488?t=0hozyFJmQXMSggC_M3Huiw&s=19

    While Harris is way ahead on other issues like abortion.

    https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/1837216742356992439?t=pVDfPM5MLDCKc3ImbMSTBA&s=19
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,714

    Roger said:

    Starmer should auction all the gifts he was given and give the prooeeds to charity. You should get a good premium for provenance

    There is a demand that Starmer, Reeves, Rayner and others repay the donations which is rather inevitable
    What were they thinking?

    How does this happen?

    Just gave a speech about being a new government that is ethical and an end to tory years of corruption and dodges and sleaze.

    Walk off stage.

    Then trouser the £2k donation for a new set of high fashion trousers.

    I just cannot understand why anyone can be this stupid.

  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,052

    Ed Davey has declared a total of £29,500 from 6 donors, and…

    Name of donor: Sudhir Choudhrie
    Address of donor: private
    Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: £25,000 this donation is for the sole purpose of providing additional personal care support to my young son, who has an undiagnosed neurological disorder resulting in severe physical and learning disabilities.
    Date received: 22 March 2024 to 31 October 2024
    Date accepted: 22 March 2024
    Donor status: individual

    Plus

    National Liberal Club Honorary life membership as Leader of the Liberal Democrats (value provided is that in 2023), value £798

    A seat at Viaro Energy's table at the London Air Ambulance Charity Gala, value £2,500

    And…

    Name of donor: The Football Association
    Address of donor: Wembley Stadium, Wembley, London HA9 0WS
    Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: Two hospitality tickets for me and a family member to attend Taylor Swift's "The Eras Tour", value £584

    It will probably be quicker to highlight the MPs that did NOT get football and Swift tickets
    There are some less well known MPs who declare nil, e.g. Kirsty Blackman (SNP) and Sorcha Eastwood (Alliance). Lots only declare small change, or expenses for Parliamentary group visits, or outside earnings that seem very reasonable (also being a councillor, final payments from employee before they were elected).
    I admire you two doing your best to justify Starmer and others freebies, but look at tonight's survation poll and realise this has cut through and the public do not like it
    I didn’t vote for Starmer/Labour. I don’t think he’s handled this well. I don’t expect public opinion to be particularly rational. I don’t think anything (yet!) has really made a Partygate-sized splash.

    Am I getting confused or do you support the Greens? Did you like Sian Berry’s list of donations? Carla Denyer’s is long too, as is Ellie Chowns’ and Adrian Ramsay’s.
  • Ed Davey has declared a total of £29,500 from 6 donors, and…

    Name of donor: Sudhir Choudhrie
    Address of donor: private
    Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: £25,000 this donation is for the sole purpose of providing additional personal care support to my young son, who has an undiagnosed neurological disorder resulting in severe physical and learning disabilities.
    Date received: 22 March 2024 to 31 October 2024
    Date accepted: 22 March 2024
    Donor status: individual

    Plus

    National Liberal Club Honorary life membership as Leader of the Liberal Democrats (value provided is that in 2023), value £798

    A seat at Viaro Energy's table at the London Air Ambulance Charity Gala, value £2,500

    And…

    Name of donor: The Football Association
    Address of donor: Wembley Stadium, Wembley, London HA9 0WS
    Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: Two hospitality tickets for me and a family member to attend Taylor Swift's "The Eras Tour", value £584

    It will probably be quicker to highlight the MPs that did NOT get football and Swift tickets
    There are some less well known MPs who declare nil, e.g. Kirsty Blackman (SNP) and Sorcha Eastwood (Alliance). Lots only declare small change, or expenses for Parliamentary group visits, or outside earnings that seem very reasonable (also being a councillor, final payments from employee before they were elected).
    I admire you two doing your best to justify Starmer and others freebies, but look at tonight's survation poll and realise this has cut through and the public do not like it
    Starmer and others… you are starting to twig!!

    How would you change the rules?

    Would you extend these rules to other businesses?
    I would ban all gifts and freebies to elected politicians and increase their salaries

    Starmer salary is far too low but then Gordon Brown was behind the reduction in PM salaries

    As far as the private sector is concerned that is a matter for them and their shareholders
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    Andy_JS said:

    This is why people voted Labour. To hear this.

    "PM will no longer accept donations to pay for clothes"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwyvpv1lzq6o

    No I didn't. I voted to punish the incompetent, venal Conservative Party.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,644
    edited September 20

    Roger said:

    Starmer should auction all the gifts he was given and give the prooeeds to charity. You should get a good premium for provenance

    There is a demand that Starmer, Reeves, Rayner and others repay the donations which is rather inevitable
    Labour should up the ante and ban all donations to Individual MPs, then we can see the likes of Farage and other tougher squeal.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    edited September 20
    Bad Enoch likes a hearty donation. Some chunky monkeys there, by Jove! Plus £800 of tickets for the Jingle Bell Ball… ho, ho, ho!

    Edit:

    Kemi, Sir Keir and Dr Rosena all went to the Jingle Bell Ball. What a night!
  • Foxy said:

    Roger said:

    Starmer should auction all the gifts he was given and give the prooeeds to charity. You should get a good premium for provenance

    There is a demand that Starmer, Reeves, Rayner and others repay the donations which is rather inevitable
    Labour should up the ante and ban all donations to Individual MPs, then we can see the likes of Farage and other tougher squeal.
    I genuine believe all donations to mps should be banned from whatever source
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    Roger said:

    Starmer should auction all the gifts he was given and give the prooeeds to charity. You should get a good premium for provenance

    There is a demand that Starmer, Reeves, Rayner and others repay the donations which is rather inevitable
    I'll raise you, Johnson pays back Brownlow and Bamford! Oh and all the Tory PPE grifters pay back the NHS.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    Foxy said:

    Roger said:

    Starmer should auction all the gifts he was given and give the prooeeds to charity. You should get a good premium for provenance

    There is a demand that Starmer, Reeves, Rayner and others repay the donations which is rather inevitable
    Labour should up the ante and ban all donations to Individual MPs, then we can see the likes of Farage and other tougher squeal.
    That would be quite funny!
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485

    Foxy said:

    Roger said:

    Starmer should auction all the gifts he was given and give the prooeeds to charity. You should get a good premium for provenance

    There is a demand that Starmer, Reeves, Rayner and others repay the donations which is rather inevitable
    Labour should up the ante and ban all donations to Individual MPs, then we can see the likes of Farage and other tougher squeal.
    I genuine believe all donations to mps should be banned from whatever source
    Aha! So now we are getting somewhere!
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,052

    Ed Davey has declared a total of £29,500 from 6 donors, and…

    Name of donor: Sudhir Choudhrie
    Address of donor: private
    Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: £25,000 this donation is for the sole purpose of providing additional personal care support to my young son, who has an undiagnosed neurological disorder resulting in severe physical and learning disabilities.
    Date received: 22 March 2024 to 31 October 2024
    Date accepted: 22 March 2024
    Donor status: individual

    Plus

    National Liberal Club Honorary life membership as Leader of the Liberal Democrats (value provided is that in 2023), value £798

    A seat at Viaro Energy's table at the London Air Ambulance Charity Gala, value £2,500

    And…

    Name of donor: The Football Association
    Address of donor: Wembley Stadium, Wembley, London HA9 0WS
    Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: Two hospitality tickets for me and a family member to attend Taylor Swift's "The Eras Tour", value £584

    It will probably be quicker to highlight the MPs that did NOT get football and Swift tickets
    There are some less well known MPs who declare nil, e.g. Kirsty Blackman (SNP) and Sorcha Eastwood (Alliance). Lots only declare small change, or expenses for Parliamentary group visits, or outside earnings that seem very reasonable (also being a councillor, final payments from employee before they were elected).
    I admire you two doing your best to justify Starmer and others freebies, but look at tonight's survation poll and realise this has cut through and the public do not like it
    Starmer and others… you are starting to twig!!

    How would you change the rules?

    Would you extend these rules to other businesses?
    I would ban all gifts and freebies to elected politicians and increase their salaries

    Starmer salary is far too low but then Gordon Brown was behind the reduction in PM salaries

    As far as the private sector is concerned that is a matter for them and their shareholders
    A lot of gifts being declared now were given to pay for campaigning costs. Lots of today’s MPs weren’t MPs until the election. Increasing MPs’ salaries doesn’t help those people. What is someone like Adrian Ramsay meant to do if he wants to get elected? How can democracy work without donations to political parties and would-be politicians?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Right now I'd vote for PM Farage over Galloway

    And Jenrick

    And Starmer

    Went to Essex hustings tonight with the Tory leadership candidates. Cleverly was affable as ever and wanted to reach out to the nation as a whole and see off Reform by being true to Conservative values not becoming Reform while projecting party unity too.

    Badenoch was sharper than I expected, thoughtful and emphasised the need for the party to sell itself again based on conservative values not just be managerial. Jackie Doyle Price was representing Tugendhat who had another engagement and made clear that the party couldn’t just speak to itself but needed to reach out to the whole country and those Tories who stayed home more than Reform.

    Jenrick was the most slick and polished, a strong speaker and orator and told a few jokes. My main fear is he could be Hague2, excellent at Question Time and his conference speech but maybe got the role too young. Jenrick was also the most rightwing, wanted to move away from Net Zero to protect our industrial base, wanted to leave the ECHR and deport immigrants etc. however he was saying some good things about building new homes for younger people too
    I'd probably choose Badenoch. It's a strong and crowded field, granted.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,033
    edited September 20

    Ed Davey has declared a total of £29,500 from 6 donors, and…

    Name of donor: Sudhir Choudhrie
    Address of donor: private
    Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: £25,000 this donation is for the sole purpose of providing additional personal care support to my young son, who has an undiagnosed neurological disorder resulting in severe physical and learning disabilities.
    Date received: 22 March 2024 to 31 October 2024
    Date accepted: 22 March 2024
    Donor status: individual

    Plus

    National Liberal Club Honorary life membership as Leader of the Liberal Democrats (value provided is that in 2023), value £798

    A seat at Viaro Energy's table at the London Air Ambulance Charity Gala, value £2,500

    And…

    Name of donor: The Football Association
    Address of donor: Wembley Stadium, Wembley, London HA9 0WS
    Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: Two hospitality tickets for me and a family member to attend Taylor Swift's "The Eras Tour", value £584

    It will probably be quicker to highlight the MPs that did NOT get football and Swift tickets
    There are some less well known MPs who declare nil, e.g. Kirsty Blackman (SNP) and Sorcha Eastwood (Alliance). Lots only declare small change, or expenses for Parliamentary group visits, or outside earnings that seem very reasonable (also being a councillor, final payments from employee before they were elected).
    I admire you two doing your best to justify Starmer and others freebies, but look at tonight's survation poll and realise this has cut through and the public do not like it
    I didn’t vote for Starmer/Labour. I don’t think he’s handled this well. I don’t expect public opinion to be particularly rational. I don’t think anything (yet!) has really made a Partygate-sized splash.

    Am I getting confused or do you support the Greens? Did you like Sian Berry’s list of donations? Carla Denyer’s is long too, as is Ellie Chowns’ and Adrian Ramsay’s.
    You are completely missing the point

    Starmer was elected on cleaning up politics and it seems he and his fellow cabinet have been taking tens of thousands of pounds in gifts

    I do not support any party at present and though I have voted Labour twice I have been a conservative activist at election time though 2010 was my last election in that role
  • Foxy said:

    Roger said:

    Starmer should auction all the gifts he was given and give the prooeeds to charity. You should get a good premium for provenance

    There is a demand that Starmer, Reeves, Rayner and others repay the donations which is rather inevitable
    Labour should up the ante and ban all donations to Individual MPs, then we can see the likes of Farage and other tougher squeal.
    I genuine believe all donations to mps should be banned from whatever source
    Aha! So now we are getting somewhere!
    I have been consistent in that for years but attempts to excuse Starmer and his cabinet are falling on deaf ears
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    ...

    Ed Davey has declared a total of £29,500 from 6 donors, and…

    Name of donor: Sudhir Choudhrie
    Address of donor: private
    Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: £25,000 this donation is for the sole purpose of providing additional personal care support to my young son, who has an undiagnosed neurological disorder resulting in severe physical and learning disabilities.
    Date received: 22 March 2024 to 31 October 2024
    Date accepted: 22 March 2024
    Donor status: individual

    Plus

    National Liberal Club Honorary life membership as Leader of the Liberal Democrats (value provided is that in 2023), value £798

    A seat at Viaro Energy's table at the London Air Ambulance Charity Gala, value £2,500

    And…

    Name of donor: The Football Association
    Address of donor: Wembley Stadium, Wembley, London HA9 0WS
    Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: Two hospitality tickets for me and a family member to attend Taylor Swift's "The Eras Tour", value £584

    It will probably be quicker to highlight the MPs that did NOT get football and Swift tickets
    There are some less well known MPs who declare nil, e.g. Kirsty Blackman (SNP) and Sorcha Eastwood (Alliance). Lots only declare small change, or expenses for Parliamentary group visits, or outside earnings that seem very reasonable (also being a councillor, final payments from employee before they were elected).
    I admire you two doing your best to justify Starmer and others freebies, but look at tonight's survation poll and realise this has cut through and the public do not like it
    Starmer and others… you are starting to twig!!

    How would you change the rules?

    Would you extend these rules to other businesses?
    I would ban all gifts and freebies to elected politicians and increase their salaries

    Starmer salary is far too low but then Gordon Brown was behind the reduction in PM salaries

    As far as the private sector is concerned that is a matter for them and their shareholders
    Unless you state fund election campaigns you won't stop donations to parties and campaigns. I suppose we could stagger the rollout. Ban donations to Labour first and see how that pans out.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,052

    Ed Davey has declared a total of £29,500 from 6 donors, and…

    Name of donor: Sudhir Choudhrie
    Address of donor: private
    Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: £25,000 this donation is for the sole purpose of providing additional personal care support to my young son, who has an undiagnosed neurological disorder resulting in severe physical and learning disabilities.
    Date received: 22 March 2024 to 31 October 2024
    Date accepted: 22 March 2024
    Donor status: individual

    Plus

    National Liberal Club Honorary life membership as Leader of the Liberal Democrats (value provided is that in 2023), value £798

    A seat at Viaro Energy's table at the London Air Ambulance Charity Gala, value £2,500

    And…

    Name of donor: The Football Association
    Address of donor: Wembley Stadium, Wembley, London HA9 0WS
    Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: Two hospitality tickets for me and a family member to attend Taylor Swift's "The Eras Tour", value £584

    It will probably be quicker to highlight the MPs that did NOT get football and Swift tickets
    There are some less well known MPs who declare nil, e.g. Kirsty Blackman (SNP) and Sorcha Eastwood (Alliance). Lots only declare small change, or expenses for Parliamentary group visits, or outside earnings that seem very reasonable (also being a councillor, final payments from employee before they were elected).
    I admire you two doing your best to justify Starmer and others freebies, but look at tonight's survation poll and realise this has cut through and the public do not like it
    I didn’t vote for Starmer/Labour. I don’t think he’s handled this well. I don’t expect public opinion to be particularly rational. I don’t think anything (yet!) has really made a Partygate-sized splash.

    Am I getting confused or do you support the Greens? Did you like Sian Berry’s list of donations? Carla Denyer’s is long too, as is Ellie Chowns’ and Adrian Ramsay’s.
    You are completely missing the point

    Starmer was elected on cleaning up politics and it seems he and his fellow cabinet have been taking tens of thousands of pounds in gifts

    I do not support any party at present and though I have voted Labour twice I have been a conservative activist at election time 2010 was my last election in that role
    Lots of MPs from multiple parties have reported tens of thousands of pounds in gifts, although Starmer’s accepted more than most. Politics costs money, even in the UK with our limits on spending in an election. Do we only let rich people fight elections, or do we let candidates accept donations? I don’t see any way around politicians accepting donations.

    That said, one could reform the rules in various ways and whatever the rules, parties need to think about the optics. I’m not excusing Starmer or Labour. But there’s a lot of people up in arms about something that has gone on for centuries!
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    Foxy said:

    Roger said:

    Starmer should auction all the gifts he was given and give the prooeeds to charity. You should get a good premium for provenance

    There is a demand that Starmer, Reeves, Rayner and others repay the donations which is rather inevitable
    Labour should up the ante and ban all donations to Individual MPs, then we can see the likes of Farage and other tougher squeal.
    I genuine believe all donations to mps should be banned from whatever source
    Aha! So now we are getting somewhere!
    Wake up and smell the curry!
  • ...

    Ed Davey has declared a total of £29,500 from 6 donors, and…

    Name of donor: Sudhir Choudhrie
    Address of donor: private
    Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: £25,000 this donation is for the sole purpose of providing additional personal care support to my young son, who has an undiagnosed neurological disorder resulting in severe physical and learning disabilities.
    Date received: 22 March 2024 to 31 October 2024
    Date accepted: 22 March 2024
    Donor status: individual

    Plus

    National Liberal Club Honorary life membership as Leader of the Liberal Democrats (value provided is that in 2023), value £798

    A seat at Viaro Energy's table at the London Air Ambulance Charity Gala, value £2,500

    And…

    Name of donor: The Football Association
    Address of donor: Wembley Stadium, Wembley, London HA9 0WS
    Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: Two hospitality tickets for me and a family member to attend Taylor Swift's "The Eras Tour", value £584

    It will probably be quicker to highlight the MPs that did NOT get football and Swift tickets
    There are some less well known MPs who declare nil, e.g. Kirsty Blackman (SNP) and Sorcha Eastwood (Alliance). Lots only declare small change, or expenses for Parliamentary group visits, or outside earnings that seem very reasonable (also being a councillor, final payments from employee before they were elected).
    I admire you two doing your best to justify Starmer and others freebies, but look at tonight's survation poll and realise this has cut through and the public do not like it
    Starmer and others… you are starting to twig!!

    How would you change the rules?

    Would you extend these rules to other businesses?
    I would ban all gifts and freebies to elected politicians and increase their salaries

    Starmer salary is far too low but then Gordon Brown was behind the reduction in PM salaries

    As far as the private sector is concerned that is a matter for them and their shareholders
    Unless you state fund election campaigns you won't stop donations to parties and campaigns. I suppose we could stagger the rollout. Ban donations to Labour first and see how that pans out.
    Parties yes but individual politicians no
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,779
    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Right now I'd vote for PM Farage over Galloway

    And Jenrick

    And Starmer

    Went to Essex hustings tonight with the Tory leadership candidates. Cleverly was affable as ever and wanted to reach out to the nation as a whole and see off Reform by being true to Conservative values not becoming Reform while projecting party unity too.

    Badenoch was sharper than I expected, thoughtful and emphasised the need for the party to sell itself again based on conservative values not just be managerial. Jackie Doyle Price was representing Tugendhat who had another engagement and made clear that the party couldn’t just speak to itself but needed to reach out to the whole country and those Tories who stayed home more than Reform.

    Jenrick was the most slick and polished, a strong speaker and orator and told a few jokes. My main fear is he could be Hague2, excellent at Question Time and his conference speech but maybe got the role too young. Jenrick was also the most rightwing, wanted to move away from Net Zero to protect our industrial base, wanted to leave the ECHR and deport immigrants etc. however he was saying some good things about building new homes for younger people too
    I'd probably choose Badenoch. It's a strong and crowded field, granted.
    Strong field lol.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yes @williamglenn has hacked my account.

    Gold standard Gallup.poll has Trump two ahead of Harris but just look at Harris's underwater (-25) figures with independents. Bet accordingly.

    The end of US democracy starts on January 20, 2025. Brace, brace!

    Morning Consult meanwhile has Harris ahead in Wisconsin, Maryland, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Nevada, Virginia and Minnesota while Trump only leads in Texas, Florida, Ohio and Georgia.

    https://pro.morningconsult.com/trackers/2024-election-state-polls

    Could Trump be the first Republican presidential candidate to win the national popular vote but lose the EC?
    No.

    Interesting polling on the economy and immigration. Harris still behind Trump but has closed the gap substantially.

    https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/1837217861313458273?t=3PqozdMAdgPT31k-pvQS8g&s=19

    https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/1837216604578365488?t=0hozyFJmQXMSggC_M3Huiw&s=19

    While Harris is way ahead on other issues like abortion.

    https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/1837216742356992439?t=pVDfPM5MLDCKc3ImbMSTBA&s=19
    Indeed, and other recent polls have shown Harris close or even ahead on the economy. It does appear there has been a shift.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    "I took cash for clothes too, admits Rachel Reeves

    Rachel Reeves has admitted she accepted money for clothes, as the backlash over gifts from donors threatened to overshadow the Labour Party conference this weekend. The Chancellor has received almost £7,500 for clothing since 2023 from a friend called Juliet Rosenfeld, the widow of a Labour donor caught up in the 2006 cash for honours scandal."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/09/20/i-took-cash-for-clothes-too-admits-rachel-reeves/
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,052
    Helen Morgan (LD):

    Name of donor: Publisher’s Association
    As part of a draw for MPs held by the Publisher’s Association, I received seventy children’s books with an approximate value of £900 to donate to schools and organisations in my constituency.
    Date interest arose: 21 December 2023
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485

    Roger said:

    Starmer should auction all the gifts he was given and give the prooeeds to charity. You should get a good premium for provenance

    There is a demand that Starmer, Reeves, Rayner and others repay the donations which is rather inevitable
    What were they thinking?

    How does this happen?

    Just gave a speech about being a new government that is ethical and an end to tory years of corruption and dodges and sleaze.

    Walk off stage.

    Then trouser the £2k donation for a new set of high fashion trousers.

    I just cannot understand why anyone can be this stupid.

    Lots of MPs get gifts and donations. The important thing is that they declare them.

    https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm/cmregmem/240902/240902.pdf
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,052
    This is the full entry for Taiwo Owatemi (Labour):

    1. Employment and earnings
    Role, work or services: Locum Pharmacist for Tesco
    From: 5 June 2021. Until: 6 June 2021.
    Payer: Tesco, Shire Park, Kestrel Way, Welwyn Garden City AL7 1GA
    Additional information: I worked shifts on an ad hoc basis as required.
    (Registered 7 June 2021; updated 16 May 2024)

    3. Gifts, benefits and hospitality from UK sources
    Name of donor: Coventry City Football Club
    Address of donor: Sky Blue Lodge, Leamington Road, Ryton on Dunsmore CV8 3FL
    Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: Two tickets to the Royal Box at Wembley for the FA Cup Semi-final match Coventry City vs Man Utd, value £540
    Date received: 21 April 2024
    Date accepted: 21 April 2024
    Donor status: company, registration 07612487
    (Registered 16 May 2024)

    7. (i) Shareholdings: over 15% of issued share capital
    Name of company or organisation: Afrika Connekt Ltd
    Nature of business: A clothing company
    (Registered 7 January 2020)

    8. Miscellaneous
    Unpaid director of Afrika Connekt Ltd; a clothing company.
    Date interest ended: 15 June 2023
    (Registered 7 January 2020; updated 16 May 2024)
    Pharmacist registered with the General Pharmaceutical Council.
    Date interest arose: 24 April 2021
    (Registered 21 May 2021)
    Director of the Albany Theatre Trust. This is an unpaid role.
    Date interest arose: 21 April 2021
    (Registered 3 August 2023)
    Director of the Holocaust Memorial Day Trust. This is an unpaid role.
    Date interest arose: 18 July 2023
    (Registered 3 August 2023)
    A Director of Sky Blues in the Community. This is an unpaid role.
    Date interest arose: 9 August 2021
    (Registered 3 August 2023)
    A Director of the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association (United Kingdom Branch). This is an unpaid role.
    Date interest arose: 23 March 2023
    (Registered 3 August 2023)
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    Foxy said:

    Roger said:

    Starmer should auction all the gifts he was given and give the prooeeds to charity. You should get a good premium for provenance

    There is a demand that Starmer, Reeves, Rayner and others repay the donations which is rather inevitable
    Labour should up the ante and ban all donations to Individual MPs, then we can see the likes of Farage and other tougher squeal.
    I genuine believe all donations to mps should be banned from whatever source
    Aha! So now we are getting somewhere!
    I have been consistent in that for years but attempts to excuse Starmer and his cabinet are falling on deaf ears
    You're on fire tonight BigG. Do you remember when a beer and a curry at the miner's welfare in Durham was worse than multiple lockdown (I didn't think they were) parties in Downing Street?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Seems like they’re all “at it”, with honourable exceptions.

    Keir’s (and Rachel’s, and Angela’s) stupidity was to think that because they are Labour, it doesn’t count.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,052

    ...

    Ed Davey has declared a total of £29,500 from 6 donors, and…

    Name of donor: Sudhir Choudhrie
    Address of donor: private
    Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: £25,000 this donation is for the sole purpose of providing additional personal care support to my young son, who has an undiagnosed neurological disorder resulting in severe physical and learning disabilities.
    Date received: 22 March 2024 to 31 October 2024
    Date accepted: 22 March 2024
    Donor status: individual

    Plus

    National Liberal Club Honorary life membership as Leader of the Liberal Democrats (value provided is that in 2023), value £798

    A seat at Viaro Energy's table at the London Air Ambulance Charity Gala, value £2,500

    And…

    Name of donor: The Football Association
    Address of donor: Wembley Stadium, Wembley, London HA9 0WS
    Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: Two hospitality tickets for me and a family member to attend Taylor Swift's "The Eras Tour", value £584

    It will probably be quicker to highlight the MPs that did NOT get football and Swift tickets
    There are some less well known MPs who declare nil, e.g. Kirsty Blackman (SNP) and Sorcha Eastwood (Alliance). Lots only declare small change, or expenses for Parliamentary group visits, or outside earnings that seem very reasonable (also being a councillor, final payments from employee before they were elected).
    I admire you two doing your best to justify Starmer and others freebies, but look at tonight's survation poll and realise this has cut through and the public do not like it
    Starmer and others… you are starting to twig!!

    How would you change the rules?

    Would you extend these rules to other businesses?
    I would ban all gifts and freebies to elected politicians and increase their salaries

    Starmer salary is far too low but then Gordon Brown was behind the reduction in PM salaries

    As far as the private sector is concerned that is a matter for them and their shareholders
    Unless you state fund election campaigns you won't stop donations to parties and campaigns. I suppose we could stagger the rollout. Ban donations to Labour first and see how that pans out.
    Parties yes but individual politicians no
    5 independent MPs were elected at the general election. What about them?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    Andy_JS said:

    "I took cash for clothes too, admits Rachel Reeves

    Rachel Reeves has admitted she accepted money for clothes, as the backlash over gifts from donors threatened to overshadow the Labour Party conference this weekend. The Chancellor has received almost £7,500 for clothing since 2023 from a friend called Juliet Rosenfeld, the widow of a Labour donor caught up in the 2006 cash for honours scandal."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/09/20/i-took-cash-for-clothes-too-admits-rachel-reeves/

    Why is ladieswear any different to any other gift or donation? A very cruel cynic might submit that it’s because PB is full of lots of slobby middle-aged men with no dress-sense nor interest in fashion.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,625

    ...

    Ed Davey has declared a total of £29,500 from 6 donors, and…

    Name of donor: Sudhir Choudhrie
    Address of donor: private
    Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: £25,000 this donation is for the sole purpose of providing additional personal care support to my young son, who has an undiagnosed neurological disorder resulting in severe physical and learning disabilities.
    Date received: 22 March 2024 to 31 October 2024
    Date accepted: 22 March 2024
    Donor status: individual

    Plus

    National Liberal Club Honorary life membership as Leader of the Liberal Democrats (value provided is that in 2023), value £798

    A seat at Viaro Energy's table at the London Air Ambulance Charity Gala, value £2,500

    And…

    Name of donor: The Football Association
    Address of donor: Wembley Stadium, Wembley, London HA9 0WS
    Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: Two hospitality tickets for me and a family member to attend Taylor Swift's "The Eras Tour", value £584

    It will probably be quicker to highlight the MPs that did NOT get football and Swift tickets
    There are some less well known MPs who declare nil, e.g. Kirsty Blackman (SNP) and Sorcha Eastwood (Alliance). Lots only declare small change, or expenses for Parliamentary group visits, or outside earnings that seem very reasonable (also being a councillor, final payments from employee before they were elected).
    I admire you two doing your best to justify Starmer and others freebies, but look at tonight's survation poll and realise this has cut through and the public do not like it
    Starmer and others… you are starting to twig!!

    How would you change the rules?

    Would you extend these rules to other businesses?
    I would ban all gifts and freebies to elected politicians and increase their salaries

    Starmer salary is far too low but then Gordon Brown was behind the reduction in PM salaries

    As far as the private sector is concerned that is a matter for them and their shareholders
    Unless you state fund election campaigns you won't stop donations to parties and campaigns. I suppose we could stagger the rollout. Ban donations to Labour first and see how that pans out.
    Just ban elections and let parties compete for favour from the king instead.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Good to see Jenrick re-tweet the “Foundations” report earlier today.

    I’ve been saying much of this for years and years and years, even during peak New Labour. It’s long been notable that Britain is uniquely scruffy and run-down, outside of marquee projects like Crossrail 2 and the King’s Cross St Pancras redevelopment.

    The absurd price of housing, and the inability to “get ahead” - along with Brexit - eventually led to my leaving the country. Collectively, my wife and I earn arpoximately double what we did in the UK. Perhaps 50% more once you account for living costs.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708

    Yes @williamglenn has hacked my account.

    Gold standard Gallup.poll has Trump two ahead of Harris but just look at Harris's underwater (-25) figures with independents. Bet accordingly.

    The end of US democracy starts on January 20, 2025. Brace, brace!

    Gallup is definitely not "gold standard". It's not garbage but it's not among the best. Just stick it in the average with everything else.
  • Foxy said:

    Roger said:

    Starmer should auction all the gifts he was given and give the prooeeds to charity. You should get a good premium for provenance

    There is a demand that Starmer, Reeves, Rayner and others repay the donations which is rather inevitable
    Labour should up the ante and ban all donations to Individual MPs, then we can see the likes of Farage and other tougher squeal.
    I genuine believe all donations to mps should be banned from whatever source
    Aha! So now we are getting somewhere!
    I have been consistent in that for years but attempts to excuse Starmer and his cabinet are falling on deaf ears
    You're on fire tonight BigG. Do you remember when a beer and a curry at the miner's welfare in Durham was worse than multiple lockdown (I didn't think they were) parties in Downing Street?
    There are many who think Starmer got away with that night but that was then and this is now with a new government promising to clean up politics and has a serious crisis on its hands due to the extent of the largesse the PM and cabinet have been involved in so much so the anger is coming from within Starmer own party
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,052

    ...

    Ed Davey has declared a total of £29,500 from 6 donors, and…

    Name of donor: Sudhir Choudhrie
    Address of donor: private
    Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: £25,000 this donation is for the sole purpose of providing additional personal care support to my young son, who has an undiagnosed neurological disorder resulting in severe physical and learning disabilities.
    Date received: 22 March 2024 to 31 October 2024
    Date accepted: 22 March 2024
    Donor status: individual

    Plus

    National Liberal Club Honorary life membership as Leader of the Liberal Democrats (value provided is that in 2023), value £798

    A seat at Viaro Energy's table at the London Air Ambulance Charity Gala, value £2,500

    And…

    Name of donor: The Football Association
    Address of donor: Wembley Stadium, Wembley, London HA9 0WS
    Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: Two hospitality tickets for me and a family member to attend Taylor Swift's "The Eras Tour", value £584

    It will probably be quicker to highlight the MPs that did NOT get football and Swift tickets
    There are some less well known MPs who declare nil, e.g. Kirsty Blackman (SNP) and Sorcha Eastwood (Alliance). Lots only declare small change, or expenses for Parliamentary group visits, or outside earnings that seem very reasonable (also being a councillor, final payments from employee before they were elected).
    I admire you two doing your best to justify Starmer and others freebies, but look at tonight's survation poll and realise this has cut through and the public do not like it
    Starmer and others… you are starting to twig!!

    How would you change the rules?

    Would you extend these rules to other businesses?
    I would ban all gifts and freebies to elected politicians and increase their salaries

    Starmer salary is far too low but then Gordon Brown was behind the reduction in PM salaries

    As far as the private sector is concerned that is a matter for them and their shareholders
    Unless you state fund election campaigns you won't stop donations to parties and campaigns. I suppose we could stagger the rollout. Ban donations to Labour first and see how that pans out.
    Parties yes but individual politicians no
    5 independent MPs were elected at the general election. What about them?
    Alex Easton, one of those independents, made a nil declaration, but all the others had declarations… OK, going through them, Ayoub Khan had things to declare but no donations. The other 3 independents all had accepted donations.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    ...

    Ed Davey has declared a total of £29,500 from 6 donors, and…

    Name of donor: Sudhir Choudhrie
    Address of donor: private
    Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: £25,000 this donation is for the sole purpose of providing additional personal care support to my young son, who has an undiagnosed neurological disorder resulting in severe physical and learning disabilities.
    Date received: 22 March 2024 to 31 October 2024
    Date accepted: 22 March 2024
    Donor status: individual

    Plus

    National Liberal Club Honorary life membership as Leader of the Liberal Democrats (value provided is that in 2023), value £798

    A seat at Viaro Energy's table at the London Air Ambulance Charity Gala, value £2,500

    And…

    Name of donor: The Football Association
    Address of donor: Wembley Stadium, Wembley, London HA9 0WS
    Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: Two hospitality tickets for me and a family member to attend Taylor Swift's "The Eras Tour", value £584

    It will probably be quicker to highlight the MPs that did NOT get football and Swift tickets
    There are some less well known MPs who declare nil, e.g. Kirsty Blackman (SNP) and Sorcha Eastwood (Alliance). Lots only declare small change, or expenses for Parliamentary group visits, or outside earnings that seem very reasonable (also being a councillor, final payments from employee before they were elected).
    I admire you two doing your best to justify Starmer and others freebies, but look at tonight's survation poll and realise this has cut through and the public do not like it
    Starmer and others… you are starting to twig!!

    How would you change the rules?

    Would you extend these rules to other businesses?
    I would ban all gifts and freebies to elected politicians and increase their salaries

    Starmer salary is far too low but then Gordon Brown was behind the reduction in PM salaries

    As far as the private sector is concerned that is a matter for them and their shareholders
    Unless you state fund election campaigns you won't stop donations to parties and campaigns. I suppose we could stagger the rollout. Ban donations to Labour first and see how that pans out.
    Just ban elections and let parties compete for favour from the king instead.
    Ah ha! So you are actually Donald Trump! That explains a lot.
  • ...

    Ed Davey has declared a total of £29,500 from 6 donors, and…

    Name of donor: Sudhir Choudhrie
    Address of donor: private
    Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: £25,000 this donation is for the sole purpose of providing additional personal care support to my young son, who has an undiagnosed neurological disorder resulting in severe physical and learning disabilities.
    Date received: 22 March 2024 to 31 October 2024
    Date accepted: 22 March 2024
    Donor status: individual

    Plus

    National Liberal Club Honorary life membership as Leader of the Liberal Democrats (value provided is that in 2023), value £798

    A seat at Viaro Energy's table at the London Air Ambulance Charity Gala, value £2,500

    And…

    Name of donor: The Football Association
    Address of donor: Wembley Stadium, Wembley, London HA9 0WS
    Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: Two hospitality tickets for me and a family member to attend Taylor Swift's "The Eras Tour", value £584

    It will probably be quicker to highlight the MPs that did NOT get football and Swift tickets
    There are some less well known MPs who declare nil, e.g. Kirsty Blackman (SNP) and Sorcha Eastwood (Alliance). Lots only declare small change, or expenses for Parliamentary group visits, or outside earnings that seem very reasonable (also being a councillor, final payments from employee before they were elected).
    I admire you two doing your best to justify Starmer and others freebies, but look at tonight's survation poll and realise this has cut through and the public do not like it
    Starmer and others… you are starting to twig!!

    How would you change the rules?

    Would you extend these rules to other businesses?
    I would ban all gifts and freebies to elected politicians and increase their salaries

    Starmer salary is far too low but then Gordon Brown was behind the reduction in PM salaries

    As far as the private sector is concerned that is a matter for them and their shareholders
    Unless you state fund election campaigns you won't stop donations to parties and campaigns. I suppose we could stagger the rollout. Ban donations to Labour first and see how that pans out.
    Parties yes but individual politicians no
    5 independent MPs were elected at the general election. What about them?
    The salary needs to be sufficient to prevent this abuse
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485

    Seems like they’re all “at it”, with honourable exceptions.

    Keir’s (and Rachel’s, and Angela’s) stupidity was to think that because they are Labour, it doesn’t count.

    Did they think that? They declared the clothes. What’s the problem?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,052

    ...

    Ed Davey has declared a total of £29,500 from 6 donors, and…

    Name of donor: Sudhir Choudhrie
    Address of donor: private
    Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: £25,000 this donation is for the sole purpose of providing additional personal care support to my young son, who has an undiagnosed neurological disorder resulting in severe physical and learning disabilities.
    Date received: 22 March 2024 to 31 October 2024
    Date accepted: 22 March 2024
    Donor status: individual

    Plus

    National Liberal Club Honorary life membership as Leader of the Liberal Democrats (value provided is that in 2023), value £798

    A seat at Viaro Energy's table at the London Air Ambulance Charity Gala, value £2,500

    And…

    Name of donor: The Football Association
    Address of donor: Wembley Stadium, Wembley, London HA9 0WS
    Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: Two hospitality tickets for me and a family member to attend Taylor Swift's "The Eras Tour", value £584

    It will probably be quicker to highlight the MPs that did NOT get football and Swift tickets
    There are some less well known MPs who declare nil, e.g. Kirsty Blackman (SNP) and Sorcha Eastwood (Alliance). Lots only declare small change, or expenses for Parliamentary group visits, or outside earnings that seem very reasonable (also being a councillor, final payments from employee before they were elected).
    I admire you two doing your best to justify Starmer and others freebies, but look at tonight's survation poll and realise this has cut through and the public do not like it
    Starmer and others… you are starting to twig!!

    How would you change the rules?

    Would you extend these rules to other businesses?
    I would ban all gifts and freebies to elected politicians and increase their salaries

    Starmer salary is far too low but then Gordon Brown was behind the reduction in PM salaries

    As far as the private sector is concerned that is a matter for them and their shareholders
    Unless you state fund election campaigns you won't stop donations to parties and campaigns. I suppose we could stagger the rollout. Ban donations to Labour first and see how that pans out.
    Parties yes but individual politicians no
    5 independent MPs were elected at the general election. What about them?
    The salary needs to be sufficient to prevent this abuse
    But what do you do before you’re elected an MP? Only 1 of the independents was an MP before the election. What happens if you don’t get elected?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    ...

    Ed Davey has declared a total of £29,500 from 6 donors, and…

    Name of donor: Sudhir Choudhrie
    Address of donor: private
    Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: £25,000 this donation is for the sole purpose of providing additional personal care support to my young son, who has an undiagnosed neurological disorder resulting in severe physical and learning disabilities.
    Date received: 22 March 2024 to 31 October 2024
    Date accepted: 22 March 2024
    Donor status: individual

    Plus

    National Liberal Club Honorary life membership as Leader of the Liberal Democrats (value provided is that in 2023), value £798

    A seat at Viaro Energy's table at the London Air Ambulance Charity Gala, value £2,500

    And…

    Name of donor: The Football Association
    Address of donor: Wembley Stadium, Wembley, London HA9 0WS
    Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: Two hospitality tickets for me and a family member to attend Taylor Swift's "The Eras Tour", value £584

    It will probably be quicker to highlight the MPs that did NOT get football and Swift tickets
    There are some less well known MPs who declare nil, e.g. Kirsty Blackman (SNP) and Sorcha Eastwood (Alliance). Lots only declare small change, or expenses for Parliamentary group visits, or outside earnings that seem very reasonable (also being a councillor, final payments from employee before they were elected).
    I admire you two doing your best to justify Starmer and others freebies, but look at tonight's survation poll and realise this has cut through and the public do not like it
    Starmer and others… you are starting to twig!!

    How would you change the rules?

    Would you extend these rules to other businesses?
    I would ban all gifts and freebies to elected politicians and increase their salaries

    Starmer salary is far too low but then Gordon Brown was behind the reduction in PM salaries

    As far as the private sector is concerned that is a matter for them and their shareholders
    Unless you state fund election campaigns you won't stop donations to parties and campaigns. I suppose we could stagger the rollout. Ban donations to Labour first and see how that pans out.
    Parties yes but individual politicians no
    5 independent MPs were elected at the general election. What about them?
    The salary needs to be sufficient to prevent this abuse
    It wouldn’t. Since the money is available, and people always want more.

    But MPs are paid absurdly low wages.
    There’s a charm to Britain’s puritanical public service compensation culture, but it’s gone way too far.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    Seems like they’re all “at it”, with honourable exceptions.

    Keir’s (and Rachel’s, and Angela’s) stupidity was to think that because they are Labour, it doesn’t count.

    Did they think that? They declared the clothes. What’s the problem?
    Only because they were caught out.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485

    Seems like they’re all “at it”, with honourable exceptions.

    Keir’s (and Rachel’s, and Angela’s) stupidity was to think that because they are Labour, it doesn’t count.

    Did they think that? They declared the clothes. What’s the problem?
    Only because they were caught out.

    Seems like they’re all “at it”, with honourable exceptions.

    Keir’s (and Rachel’s, and Angela’s) stupidity was to think that because they are Labour, it doesn’t count.

    Did they think that? They declared the clothes. What’s the problem?
    Only because they were caught out.

    Seems like they’re all “at it”, with honourable exceptions.

    Keir’s (and Rachel’s, and Angela’s) stupidity was to think that because they are Labour, it doesn’t count.

    Did they think that? They declared the clothes. What’s the problem?
    Only because they were caught out.
    Nope. They are all there in the register and they declared them before any media interest.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    Seems like they’re all “at it”, with honourable exceptions.

    Keir’s (and Rachel’s, and Angela’s) stupidity was to think that because they are Labour, it doesn’t count.

    Did they think that? They declared the clothes. What’s the problem?
    Only because they were caught out.

    Seems like they’re all “at it”, with honourable exceptions.

    Keir’s (and Rachel’s, and Angela’s) stupidity was to think that because they are Labour, it doesn’t count.

    Did they think that? They declared the clothes. What’s the problem?
    Only because they were caught out.

    Seems like they’re all “at it”, with honourable exceptions.

    Keir’s (and Rachel’s, and Angela’s) stupidity was to think that because they are Labour, it doesn’t count.

    Did they think that? They declared the clothes. What’s the problem?
    Only because they were caught out.
    Nope. They are all there in the register and they declared them before any media interest.
    Did they declare them as clothing, or merely as “donations to the office”?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,052

    ...

    Ed Davey has declared a total of £29,500 from 6 donors, and…

    Name of donor: Sudhir Choudhrie
    Address of donor: private
    Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: £25,000 this donation is for the sole purpose of providing additional personal care support to my young son, who has an undiagnosed neurological disorder resulting in severe physical and learning disabilities.
    Date received: 22 March 2024 to 31 October 2024
    Date accepted: 22 March 2024
    Donor status: individual

    Plus

    National Liberal Club Honorary life membership as Leader of the Liberal Democrats (value provided is that in 2023), value £798

    A seat at Viaro Energy's table at the London Air Ambulance Charity Gala, value £2,500

    And…

    Name of donor: The Football Association
    Address of donor: Wembley Stadium, Wembley, London HA9 0WS
    Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: Two hospitality tickets for me and a family member to attend Taylor Swift's "The Eras Tour", value £584

    It will probably be quicker to highlight the MPs that did NOT get football and Swift tickets
    There are some less well known MPs who declare nil, e.g. Kirsty Blackman (SNP) and Sorcha Eastwood (Alliance). Lots only declare small change, or expenses for Parliamentary group visits, or outside earnings that seem very reasonable (also being a councillor, final payments from employee before they were elected).
    I admire you two doing your best to justify Starmer and others freebies, but look at tonight's survation poll and realise this has cut through and the public do not like it
    Starmer and others… you are starting to twig!!

    How would you change the rules?

    Would you extend these rules to other businesses?
    I would ban all gifts and freebies to elected politicians and increase their salaries

    Starmer salary is far too low but then Gordon Brown was behind the reduction in PM salaries

    As far as the private sector is concerned that is a matter for them and their shareholders
    Unless you state fund election campaigns you won't stop donations to parties and campaigns. I suppose we could stagger the rollout. Ban donations to Labour first and see how that pans out.
    Parties yes but individual politicians no
    5 independent MPs were elected at the general election. What about them?
    The salary needs to be sufficient to prevent this abuse
    It wouldn’t. Since the money is available, and people always want more.

    But MPs are paid absurdly low wages.
    There’s a charm to Britain’s puritanical public service compensation culture, but it’s gone way too far.
    UK MPs are paid similar to their French counterparts, I believe, and not much below Irish ones, but way below some countries, e.g. Germany, Italy. Spanish ones get less than UK MPs.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    edited September 20

    ...

    Ed Davey has declared a total of £29,500 from 6 donors, and…

    Name of donor: Sudhir Choudhrie
    Address of donor: private
    Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: £25,000 this donation is for the sole purpose of providing additional personal care support to my young son, who has an undiagnosed neurological disorder resulting in severe physical and learning disabilities.
    Date received: 22 March 2024 to 31 October 2024
    Date accepted: 22 March 2024
    Donor status: individual

    Plus

    National Liberal Club Honorary life membership as Leader of the Liberal Democrats (value provided is that in 2023), value £798

    A seat at Viaro Energy's table at the London Air Ambulance Charity Gala, value £2,500

    And…

    Name of donor: The Football Association
    Address of donor: Wembley Stadium, Wembley, London HA9 0WS
    Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: Two hospitality tickets for me and a family member to attend Taylor Swift's "The Eras Tour", value £584

    It will probably be quicker to highlight the MPs that did NOT get football and Swift tickets
    There are some less well known MPs who declare nil, e.g. Kirsty Blackman (SNP) and Sorcha Eastwood (Alliance). Lots only declare small change, or expenses for Parliamentary group visits, or outside earnings that seem very reasonable (also being a councillor, final payments from employee before they were elected).
    I admire you two doing your best to justify Starmer and others freebies, but look at tonight's survation poll and realise this has cut through and the public do not like it
    Starmer and others… you are starting to twig!!

    How would you change the rules?

    Would you extend these rules to other businesses?
    I would ban all gifts and freebies to elected politicians and increase their salaries

    Starmer salary is far too low but then Gordon Brown was behind the reduction in PM salaries

    As far as the private sector is concerned that is a matter for them and their shareholders
    Unless you state fund election campaigns you won't stop donations to parties and campaigns. I suppose we could stagger the rollout. Ban donations to Labour first and see how that pans out.
    Parties yes but individual politicians no
    5 independent MPs were elected at the general election. What about them?
    The salary needs to be sufficient to prevent this abuse
    How did you expect poor Boris (how much per year did he say he needed to remain solvent?) to put food on the Downing Street family table and feed those innocent bairns without Lady Bamford's bountiful benevolence? You can be heartless!
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    ...

    Ed Davey has declared a total of £29,500 from 6 donors, and…

    Name of donor: Sudhir Choudhrie
    Address of donor: private
    Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: £25,000 this donation is for the sole purpose of providing additional personal care support to my young son, who has an undiagnosed neurological disorder resulting in severe physical and learning disabilities.
    Date received: 22 March 2024 to 31 October 2024
    Date accepted: 22 March 2024
    Donor status: individual

    Plus

    National Liberal Club Honorary life membership as Leader of the Liberal Democrats (value provided is that in 2023), value £798

    A seat at Viaro Energy's table at the London Air Ambulance Charity Gala, value £2,500

    And…

    Name of donor: The Football Association
    Address of donor: Wembley Stadium, Wembley, London HA9 0WS
    Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: Two hospitality tickets for me and a family member to attend Taylor Swift's "The Eras Tour", value £584

    It will probably be quicker to highlight the MPs that did NOT get football and Swift tickets
    There are some less well known MPs who declare nil, e.g. Kirsty Blackman (SNP) and Sorcha Eastwood (Alliance). Lots only declare small change, or expenses for Parliamentary group visits, or outside earnings that seem very reasonable (also being a councillor, final payments from employee before they were elected).
    I admire you two doing your best to justify Starmer and others freebies, but look at tonight's survation poll and realise this has cut through and the public do not like it
    Starmer and others… you are starting to twig!!

    How would you change the rules?

    Would you extend these rules to other businesses?
    I would ban all gifts and freebies to elected politicians and increase their salaries

    Starmer salary is far too low but then Gordon Brown was behind the reduction in PM salaries

    As far as the private sector is concerned that is a matter for them and their shareholders
    Unless you state fund election campaigns you won't stop donations to parties and campaigns. I suppose we could stagger the rollout. Ban donations to Labour first and see how that pans out.
    Parties yes but individual politicians no
    5 independent MPs were elected at the general election. What about them?
    The salary needs to be sufficient to prevent this abuse
    It wouldn’t. Since the money is available, and people always want more.

    But MPs are paid absurdly low wages.
    There’s a charm to Britain’s puritanical public service compensation culture, but it’s gone way too far.
    UK MPs are paid similar to their French counterparts, I believe, and not much below Irish ones, but way below some countries, e.g. Germany, Italy. Spanish ones get less than UK MPs.
    More fool the Spanish.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485

    Seems like they’re all “at it”, with honourable exceptions.

    Keir’s (and Rachel’s, and Angela’s) stupidity was to think that because they are Labour, it doesn’t count.

    Did they think that? They declared the clothes. What’s the problem?
    Only because they were caught out.

    Seems like they’re all “at it”, with honourable exceptions.

    Keir’s (and Rachel’s, and Angela’s) stupidity was to think that because they are Labour, it doesn’t count.

    Did they think that? They declared the clothes. What’s the problem?
    Only because they were caught out.

    Seems like they’re all “at it”, with honourable exceptions.

    Keir’s (and Rachel’s, and Angela’s) stupidity was to think that because they are Labour, it doesn’t count.

    Did they think that? They declared the clothes. What’s the problem?
    Only because they were caught out.
    Nope. They are all there in the register and they declared them before any media interest.
    Did they declare them as clothing, or merely as “donations to the office”?
    Why does it matter? What’s the problem with clothing - they wear it to work.

    (Ange did name it as clothing FWIW, but who cares?)
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    edited September 20

    Foxy said:

    Roger said:

    Starmer should auction all the gifts he was given and give the prooeeds to charity. You should get a good premium for provenance

    There is a demand that Starmer, Reeves, Rayner and others repay the donations which is rather inevitable
    Labour should up the ante and ban all donations to Individual MPs, then we can see the likes of Farage and other tougher squeal.
    I genuine believe all donations to mps should be banned from whatever source
    Aha! So now we are getting somewhere!
    I have been consistent in that for years but attempts to excuse Starmer and his cabinet are falling on deaf ears
    You're on fire tonight BigG. Do you remember when a beer and a curry at the miner's welfare in Durham was worse than multiple lockdown (I didn't think they were) parties in Downing Street?
    There are many who think Starmer got away with that night (cut)
    Well you did for starters. (or should I say bhajis).
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,033
    edited September 20

    Seems like they’re all “at it”, with honourable exceptions.

    Keir’s (and Rachel’s, and Angela’s) stupidity was to think that because they are Labour, it doesn’t count.

    Did they think that? They declared the clothes. What’s the problem?
    Only because they were caught out.
    Nope. They are all there in the register and they declared them before any media interest.

    Actually that is not true as it was Starmer's failure to declare the freebies to Lady Starmer that resulted in his late declarations and brought everything down around him
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    Seems like they’re all “at it”, with honourable exceptions.

    Keir’s (and Rachel’s, and Angela’s) stupidity was to think that because they are Labour, it doesn’t count.

    Did they think that? They declared the clothes. What’s the problem?
    Only because they were caught out.

    Seems like they’re all “at it”, with honourable exceptions.

    Keir’s (and Rachel’s, and Angela’s) stupidity was to think that because they are Labour, it doesn’t count.

    Did they think that? They declared the clothes. What’s the problem?
    Only because they were caught out.

    Seems like they’re all “at it”, with honourable exceptions.

    Keir’s (and Rachel’s, and Angela’s) stupidity was to think that because they are Labour, it doesn’t count.

    Did they think that? They declared the clothes. What’s the problem?
    Only because they were caught out.
    Nope. They are all there in the register and they declared them before any media interest.
    Did they declare them as clothing, or merely as “donations to the office”?
    Why does it matter? What’s the problem with clothing - they wear it to work.

    (Ange did name it as clothing FWIW, but who cares?)
    It wouldn’t matter if they were more transparent.
    I actually have no issue with political leaders freshening themselves up before the enter office. I posted a few days ago that it was totally natural.

    If Angela was open about it, great.
    The luxury apartment in Manhattan is downright odd, though.
  • O/t Never usually a fan of changing the format of international football tournaments ,but the new Champions League is a great change

    Celtic score 5, Bayern Munich score 9, clearly too many mismatches.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,052
    edited September 20



    Seems like they’re all “at it”, with honourable exceptions.

    Keir’s (and Rachel’s, and Angela’s) stupidity was to think that because they are Labour, it doesn’t count.

    Did they think that? They declared the clothes. What’s the problem?
    Only because they were caught out.
    Nope. They are all there in the register and they declared them before any media interest.
    Actually that is not true as it was Starmer's failure to declare the freebies to Lady Starmer that resulted in his late declarations and brought everything down around him
    Didn’t Starmer declare that, albeit late, and then the media took notice because it was late?

    (Quoting’s gotten broken somewhere)
  • Foxy said:

    Roger said:

    Starmer should auction all the gifts he was given and give the prooeeds to charity. You should get a good premium for provenance

    There is a demand that Starmer, Reeves, Rayner and others repay the donations which is rather inevitable
    Labour should up the ante and ban all donations to Individual MPs, then we can see the likes of Farage and other tougher squeal.
    I genuine believe all donations to mps should be banned from whatever source
    Aha! So now we are getting somewhere!
    I have been consistent in that for years but attempts to excuse Starmer and his cabinet are falling on deaf ears
    You're on fire tonight BigG. Do you remember when a beer and a curry at the miner's welfare in Durham was worse than multiple lockdown (I didn't think they were) parties in Downing Street?
    There are many who think Starmer got away with that night (cut)
    Well you did for starters.
    Please show me where I came to that conclusion
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485



    Seems like they’re all “at it”, with honourable exceptions.

    Keir’s (and Rachel’s, and Angela’s) stupidity was to think that because they are Labour, it doesn’t count.

    Did they think that? They declared the clothes. What’s the problem?
    Only because they were caught out.
    Nope. They are all there in the register and they declared them before any media interest.
    Actually that is not true as it was Starmer's failure to declare the freebies to Lady Starmer that resulted in his late declarations and brought everything down around him

    It is true. Starmer did declare Lady Vic’s clothes late - the one exception that led to this silly bun fight - but did so voluntarily and before any media interest (he realised his office had made a mistake by not declaring it).


  • Seems like they’re all “at it”, with honourable exceptions.

    Keir’s (and Rachel’s, and Angela’s) stupidity was to think that because they are Labour, it doesn’t count.

    Did they think that? They declared the clothes. What’s the problem?
    Only because they were caught out.
    Nope. They are all there in the register and they declared them before any media interest.
    Actually that is not true as it was Starmer's failure to declare the freebies to Lady Starmer that resulted in his late declarations and brought everything down around him
    Didn’t Starmer declare that, albeit late, and then the media took notice because it was late?

    Yes - that was where this crisis originated
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    edited September 20

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yes @williamglenn has hacked my account.

    Gold standard Gallup.poll has Trump two ahead of Harris but just look at Harris's underwater (-25) figures with independents. Bet accordingly.

    The end of US democracy starts on January 20, 2025. Brace, brace!

    Morning Consult meanwhile has Harris ahead in Wisconsin, Maryland, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Nevada, Virginia and Minnesota while Trump only leads in Texas, Florida, Ohio and Georgia.

    https://pro.morningconsult.com/trackers/2024-election-state-polls

    Could Trump be the first Republican presidential candidate to win the national popular vote but lose the EC?
    No.

    Interesting polling on the economy and immigration. Harris still behind Trump but has closed the gap substantially.

    https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/1837217861313458273?t=3PqozdMAdgPT31k-pvQS8g&s=19

    https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/1837216604578365488?t=0hozyFJmQXMSggC_M3Huiw&s=19

    While Harris is way ahead on other issues like abortion.

    https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/1837216742356992439?t=pVDfPM5MLDCKc3ImbMSTBA&s=19
    Indeed, and other recent polls have shown Harris close or even ahead on the economy. It does appear there has been a shift.
    I posted this a couple of threads back but when they did this very scripted appearance on Oprah they opened with voter questions about all the topics where she's weakest: Border security, cost of living etc. And she managed to get the thing in about how she owns a gun and if someone broke into her house she'd use it.

    This is quite different from the Hillary Clinton strategy where she'd try to stay off the weak topics and increase the salience of the strong ones. They may have realized that you can't rely on keeping your topics salient, because the media will follow Donald Trump's trolling in whatever direction he chooses like a cat chasing a laser pointer.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485

    Seems like they’re all “at it”, with honourable exceptions.

    Keir’s (and Rachel’s, and Angela’s) stupidity was to think that because they are Labour, it doesn’t count.

    Did they think that? They declared the clothes. What’s the problem?
    Only because they were caught out.

    Seems like they’re all “at it”, with honourable exceptions.

    Keir’s (and Rachel’s, and Angela’s) stupidity was to think that because they are Labour, it doesn’t count.

    Did they think that? They declared the clothes. What’s the problem?
    Only because they were caught out.

    Seems like they’re all “at it”, with honourable exceptions.

    Keir’s (and Rachel’s, and Angela’s) stupidity was to think that because they are Labour, it doesn’t count.

    Did they think that? They declared the clothes. What’s the problem?
    Only because they were caught out.
    Nope. They are all there in the register and they declared them before any media interest.
    Did they declare them as clothing, or merely as “donations to the office”?
    Why does it matter? What’s the problem with clothing - they wear it to work.

    (Ange did name it as clothing FWIW, but who cares?)
    It wouldn’t matter if they were more transparent.
    I actually have no issue with political leaders freshening themselves up before the enter office. I posted a few days ago that it was totally natural.

    If Angela was open about it, great.
    The luxury apartment in Manhattan is downright odd, though.
    Business clothes seem to be an obsession of some. Why is it any worse than spending the cash on laptops, or iPhones?
  • Leon said:

    Just checked the Guardian’s two minute highlight reel of the Reform Conference

    Ok, wow. They look like the real deal. Like a more moderate British but equally slick version of RN or AfD

    Also, it looks like they have money. And Farage looks hungry to do this. I wonder if they actually can

    The local elections in May will be the first test.


  • Seems like they’re all “at it”, with honourable exceptions.

    Keir’s (and Rachel’s, and Angela’s) stupidity was to think that because they are Labour, it doesn’t count.

    Did they think that? They declared the clothes. What’s the problem?
    Only because they were caught out.
    Nope. They are all there in the register and they declared them before any media interest.
    Actually that is not true as it was Starmer's failure to declare the freebies to Lady Starmer that resulted in his late declarations and brought everything down around him
    It is true. Starmer did declare Lady Vic’s clothes late - the one exception that led to this silly bun fight - but did so voluntarily and before any media interest (he realised his office had made a mistake by not declaring it).

    I would suggest this is far from silly as his mps are making clear
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485

    Foxy said:

    Roger said:

    Starmer should auction all the gifts he was given and give the prooeeds to charity. You should get a good premium for provenance

    There is a demand that Starmer, Reeves, Rayner and others repay the donations which is rather inevitable
    Labour should up the ante and ban all donations to Individual MPs, then we can see the likes of Farage and other tougher squeal.
    I genuine believe all donations to mps should be banned from whatever source
    Aha! So now we are getting somewhere!
    I have been consistent in that for years but attempts to excuse Starmer and his cabinet are falling on deaf ears
    You're on fire tonight BigG. Do you remember when a beer and a curry at the miner's welfare in Durham was worse than multiple lockdown (I didn't think they were) parties in Downing Street?
    There are many who think Starmer got away with that night (cut)
    Well you did for starters. (or should I say bhajis).
    The dopiaza was the main
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,052
    Last one for the night… https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm/cmregmem/240902/siddiq_tulip.htm

    Tulip Siddiq also made a late declaration, having missed off ownership of a London flat with her husband that they’re renting out.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485



    Seems like they’re all “at it”, with honourable exceptions.

    Keir’s (and Rachel’s, and Angela’s) stupidity was to think that because they are Labour, it doesn’t count.

    Did they think that? They declared the clothes. What’s the problem?
    Only because they were caught out.
    Nope. They are all there in the register and they declared them before any media interest.
    Actually that is not true as it was Starmer's failure to declare the freebies to Lady Starmer that resulted in his late declarations and brought everything down around him
    Didn’t Starmer declare that, albeit late, and then the media took notice because it was late?

    (Quoting’s gotten broken somewhere)
    Indeed that is exactly correct. No wonder Toryherd have got their knickers in a twist - they don’t even grasp the basic facts of the matter.


  • Seems like they’re all “at it”, with honourable exceptions.

    Keir’s (and Rachel’s, and Angela’s) stupidity was to think that because they are Labour, it doesn’t count.

    Did they think that? They declared the clothes. What’s the problem?
    Only because they were caught out.
    Nope. They are all there in the register and they declared them before any media interest.
    Actually that is not true as it was Starmer's failure to declare the freebies to Lady Starmer that resulted in his late declarations and brought everything down around him
    Didn’t Starmer declare that, albeit late, and then the media took notice because it was late?

    (Quoting’s gotten broken somewhere)
    Indeed that is exactly correct. No wonder Toryherd have got their knickers in a twist - they don’t even grasp the basic facts of the matter.
    Toryherd - try the Labour Party itself who are furious and you are in denial

    Anyway it is past my bedtime but I can honestly say nobody has ever bought clothes for my wife or I as we have our pride, and would suggest if it were offered it be given to charity
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    Foxy said:

    Roger said:

    Starmer should auction all the gifts he was given and give the prooeeds to charity. You should get a good premium for provenance

    There is a demand that Starmer, Reeves, Rayner and others repay the donations which is rather inevitable
    Labour should up the ante and ban all donations to Individual MPs, then we can see the likes of Farage and other tougher squeal.
    I genuine believe all donations to mps should be banned from whatever source
    Aha! So now we are getting somewhere!
    I have been consistent in that for years but attempts to excuse Starmer and his cabinet are falling on deaf ears
    You're on fire tonight BigG. Do you remember when a beer and a curry at the miner's welfare in Durham was worse than multiple lockdown (I didn't think they were) parties in Downing Street?
    There are many who think Starmer got away with that night (cut)
    Well you did for starters.
    Please show me where I came to that conclusion
    By the very fact you wrote your post before last.
  • theProletheProle Posts: 1,206

    Andy_JS said:

    This is why people voted Labour. To hear this.

    "PM will no longer accept donations to pay for clothes"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwyvpv1lzq6o

    No I didn't. I voted to punish the incompetent, venal Conservative Party.
    And replace it in government with the incompetent, venal Labour Party.

    Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
  • Foxy said:

    Roger said:

    Starmer should auction all the gifts he was given and give the prooeeds to charity. You should get a good premium for provenance

    There is a demand that Starmer, Reeves, Rayner and others repay the donations which is rather inevitable
    Labour should up the ante and ban all donations to Individual MPs, then we can see the likes of Farage and other tougher squeal.
    I genuine believe all donations to mps should be banned from whatever source
    Aha! So now we are getting somewhere!
    I have been consistent in that for years but attempts to excuse Starmer and his cabinet are falling on deaf ears
    You're on fire tonight BigG. Do you remember when a beer and a curry at the miner's welfare in Durham was worse than multiple lockdown (I didn't think they were) parties in Downing Street?
    There are many who think Starmer got away with that night (cut)
    Well you did for starters.
    Please show me where I came to that conclusion
    By the very fact you wrote your post before last.
    Because I pass a comment that is general knowledge does not mean I concur with it

    Starmer was found to have behaved inpecabibly but unfortunately for him that cannot be said now in this crisis
  • Seems like they’re all “at it”, with honourable exceptions.

    Keir’s (and Rachel’s, and Angela’s) stupidity was to think that because they are Labour, it doesn’t count.

    Did they think that? They declared the clothes. What’s the problem?
    Only because they were caught out.

    Seems like they’re all “at it”, with honourable exceptions.

    Keir’s (and Rachel’s, and Angela’s) stupidity was to think that because they are Labour, it doesn’t count.

    Did they think that? They declared the clothes. What’s the problem?
    Only because they were caught out.

    Seems like they’re all “at it”, with honourable exceptions.

    Keir’s (and Rachel’s, and Angela’s) stupidity was to think that because they are Labour, it doesn’t count.

    Did they think that? They declared the clothes. What’s the problem?
    Only because they were caught out.
    Nope. They are all there in the register and they declared them before any media interest.
    Did they declare them as clothing, or merely as “donations to the office”?
    Why does it matter? What’s the problem with clothing - they wear it to work.

    (Ange did name it as clothing FWIW, but who cares?)
    It wouldn’t matter if they were more transparent.
    I actually have no issue with political leaders freshening themselves up before the enter office. I posted a few days ago that it was totally natural.

    If Angela was open about it, great.
    The luxury apartment in Manhattan is downright odd, though.
    Transparent clothing would be an odd thing to expect a politician to wear.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    edited September 20

    Foxy said:

    Roger said:

    Starmer should auction all the gifts he was given and give the prooeeds to charity. You should get a good premium for provenance

    There is a demand that Starmer, Reeves, Rayner and others repay the donations which is rather inevitable
    Labour should up the ante and ban all donations to Individual MPs, then we can see the likes of Farage and other tougher squeal.
    I genuine believe all donations to mps should be banned from whatever source
    Aha! So now we are getting somewhere!
    I have been consistent in that for years but attempts to excuse Starmer and his cabinet are falling on deaf ears
    You're on fire tonight BigG. Do you remember when a beer and a curry at the miner's welfare in Durham was worse than multiple lockdown (I didn't think they were) parties in Downing Street?
    There are many who think Starmer got away with that night (cut)
    Well you did for starters.
    Please show me where I came to that conclusion
    By the very fact you wrote your post before last.
    Because I pass a comment that is general knowledge does not mean I concur with it

    Starmer was found to have behaved inpecabibly but unfortunately for him that cannot be said now in this crisis
    What has he done wrong, other than declaring Lady Vic’s clothes late? (which he rectified before any media interest)
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    theProle said:

    Andy_JS said:

    This is why people voted Labour. To hear this.

    "PM will no longer accept donations to pay for clothes"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwyvpv1lzq6o

    No I didn't. I voted to punish the incompetent, venal Conservative Party.
    And replace it in government with the incompetent, venal Labour Party.

    Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
    Come back to me in a year or two and I might agree. Although, I doubt however hard you spin it, any government could be worse than the previous five years (at least).

    Mind you the new Government's start isn't fast as they struggle out of the blocks.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,033
    edited September 20

    Foxy said:

    Roger said:

    Starmer should auction all the gifts he was given and give the prooeeds to charity. You should get a good premium for provenance

    There is a demand that Starmer, Reeves, Rayner and others repay the donations which is rather inevitable
    Labour should up the ante and ban all donations to Individual MPs, then we can see the likes of Farage and other tougher squeal.
    I genuine believe all donations to mps should be banned from whatever source
    Aha! So now we are getting somewhere!
    I have been consistent in that for years but attempts to excuse Starmer and his cabinet are falling on deaf ears
    You're on fire tonight BigG. Do you remember when a beer and a curry at the miner's welfare in Durham was worse than multiple lockdown (I didn't think they were) parties in Downing Street?
    There are many who think Starmer got away with that night (cut)
    Well you did for starters.
    Please show me where I came to that conclusion
    By the very fact you wrote your post before last.
    Because I pass a comment that is general knowledge does not mean I concur with it

    Starmer was found to have behaved inpecabibly but unfortunately for him that cannot be said now in this crisis
    What has he done wrong?
    Trashed his brand

    I would just add Ratner didn't do anything wrong but his brand never recovered
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,971
    edited September 20

    ...

    Ed Davey has declared a total of £29,500 from 6 donors, and…

    Name of donor: Sudhir Choudhrie
    Address of donor: private
    Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: £25,000 this donation is for the sole purpose of providing additional personal care support to my young son, who has an undiagnosed neurological disorder resulting in severe physical and learning disabilities.
    Date received: 22 March 2024 to 31 October 2024
    Date accepted: 22 March 2024
    Donor status: individual

    Plus

    National Liberal Club Honorary life membership as Leader of the Liberal Democrats (value provided is that in 2023), value £798

    A seat at Viaro Energy's table at the London Air Ambulance Charity Gala, value £2,500

    And…

    Name of donor: The Football Association
    Address of donor: Wembley Stadium, Wembley, London HA9 0WS
    Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: Two hospitality tickets for me and a family member to attend Taylor Swift's "The Eras Tour", value £584

    It will probably be quicker to highlight the MPs that did NOT get football and Swift tickets
    There are some less well known MPs who declare nil, e.g. Kirsty Blackman (SNP) and Sorcha Eastwood (Alliance). Lots only declare small change, or expenses for Parliamentary group visits, or outside earnings that seem very reasonable (also being a councillor, final payments from employee before they were elected).
    I admire you two doing your best to justify Starmer and others freebies, but look at tonight's survation poll and realise this has cut through and the public do not like it
    Starmer and others… you are starting to twig!!

    How would you change the rules?

    Would you extend these rules to other businesses?
    I would ban all gifts and freebies to elected politicians and increase their salaries

    Starmer salary is far too low but then Gordon Brown was behind the reduction in PM salaries

    As far as the private sector is concerned that is a matter for them and their shareholders
    Unless you state fund election campaigns you won't stop donations to parties and campaigns. I suppose we could stagger the rollout. Ban donations to Labour first and see how that pans out.
    Parties yes but individual politicians no
    5 independent MPs were elected at the general election. What about them?
    The salary needs to be sufficient to prevent this abuse
    It wouldn’t. Since the money is available, and people always want more.

    But MPs are paid absurdly low wages.
    There’s a charm to Britain’s puritanical public service compensation culture, but it’s gone way too far.
    MPs are paid more than 99% of the population, that's not absurdly low.

    MP wages have risen far, far higher than median wages for years now.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,860
    A California department of forestry and fire protection employee was arrested on Friday on suspicion of starting five brush fires in northern California in recent weeks, officials said.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    edited September 20

    Foxy said:

    Roger said:

    Starmer should auction all the gifts he was given and give the prooeeds to charity. You should get a good premium for provenance

    There is a demand that Starmer, Reeves, Rayner and others repay the donations which is rather inevitable
    Labour should up the ante and ban all donations to Individual MPs, then we can see the likes of Farage and other tougher squeal.
    I genuine believe all donations to mps should be banned from whatever source
    Aha! So now we are getting somewhere!
    I have been consistent in that for years but attempts to excuse Starmer and his cabinet are falling on deaf ears
    You're on fire tonight BigG. Do you remember when a beer and a curry at the miner's welfare in Durham was worse than multiple lockdown (I didn't think they were) parties in Downing Street?
    There are many who think Starmer got away with that night (cut)
    Well you did for starters.
    Please show me where I came to that conclusion
    By the very fact you wrote your post before last.
    Because I pass a comment that is general knowledge does not mean I concur with it

    Starmer was found to have behaved inpecabibly but unfortunately for him that cannot be said now in this crisis
    It may gain traction and it may harm him, but the very fact that those who believed Johnson "got all the big calls right" are the ones caning the Starmer story for all it's worth diminishes their argument. Johnson's wallpaper and Mrs Bamford's home cooking don't worry me either. I have only introduced them to indicate the double standard.

    Not a good look for Starmer, but so far not even scratching the surface of the corruption that went before.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,908

    ...

    Ed Davey has declared a total of £29,500 from 6 donors, and…

    Name of donor: Sudhir Choudhrie
    Address of donor: private
    Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: £25,000 this donation is for the sole purpose of providing additional personal care support to my young son, who has an undiagnosed neurological disorder resulting in severe physical and learning disabilities.
    Date received: 22 March 2024 to 31 October 2024
    Date accepted: 22 March 2024
    Donor status: individual

    Plus

    National Liberal Club Honorary life membership as Leader of the Liberal Democrats (value provided is that in 2023), value £798

    A seat at Viaro Energy's table at the London Air Ambulance Charity Gala, value £2,500

    And…

    Name of donor: The Football Association
    Address of donor: Wembley Stadium, Wembley, London HA9 0WS
    Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: Two hospitality tickets for me and a family member to attend Taylor Swift's "The Eras Tour", value £584

    It will probably be quicker to highlight the MPs that did NOT get football and Swift tickets
    There are some less well known MPs who declare nil, e.g. Kirsty Blackman (SNP) and Sorcha Eastwood (Alliance). Lots only declare small change, or expenses for Parliamentary group visits, or outside earnings that seem very reasonable (also being a councillor, final payments from employee before they were elected).
    I admire you two doing your best to justify Starmer and others freebies, but look at tonight's survation poll and realise this has cut through and the public do not like it
    Starmer and others… you are starting to twig!!

    How would you change the rules?

    Would you extend these rules to other businesses?
    I would ban all gifts and freebies to elected politicians and increase their salaries

    Starmer salary is far too low but then Gordon Brown was behind the reduction in PM salaries

    As far as the private sector is concerned that is a matter for them and their shareholders
    Unless you state fund election campaigns you won't stop donations to parties and campaigns. I suppose we could stagger the rollout. Ban donations to Labour first and see how that pans out.
    Parties yes but individual politicians no
    5 independent MPs were elected at the general election. What about them?
    The salary needs to be sufficient to prevent this abuse
    It wouldn’t. Since the money is available, and people always want more.

    But MPs are paid absurdly low wages.
    There’s a charm to Britain’s puritanical public service compensation culture, but it’s gone way too far.
    MPs are paid more than 99% of the population, that's not absurdly low.

    MP wages have risen far, far higher than median wages for years now.
    £80,000 ish is more than 99% of the population? I think you've got that a bit wrong
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    Foxy said:

    Roger said:

    Starmer should auction all the gifts he was given and give the prooeeds to charity. You should get a good premium for provenance

    There is a demand that Starmer, Reeves, Rayner and others repay the donations which is rather inevitable
    Labour should up the ante and ban all donations to Individual MPs, then we can see the likes of Farage and other tougher squeal.
    I genuine believe all donations to mps should be banned from whatever source
    Aha! So now we are getting somewhere!
    I have been consistent in that for years but attempts to excuse Starmer and his cabinet are falling on deaf ears
    You're on fire tonight BigG. Do you remember when a beer and a curry at the miner's welfare in Durham was worse than multiple lockdown (I didn't think they were) parties in Downing Street?
    There are many who think Starmer got away with that night (cut)
    Well you did for starters.
    Please show me where I came to that conclusion
    By the very fact you wrote your post before last.
    Because I pass a comment that is general knowledge does not mean I concur with it

    Starmer was found to have behaved inpecabibly but unfortunately for him that cannot be said now in this crisis
    What has he done wrong?
    Trashed his brand

    I would just add Ratner didn't do anything wrong but his brand never recovered
    You may be correct, or you may be wishcasting.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,587
    Roger said:

    ...

    Ed Davey has declared a total of £29,500 from 6 donors, and…

    Name of donor: Sudhir Choudhrie
    Address of donor: private
    Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: £25,000 this donation is for the sole purpose of providing additional personal care support to my young son, who has an undiagnosed neurological disorder resulting in severe physical and learning disabilities.
    Date received: 22 March 2024 to 31 October 2024
    Date accepted: 22 March 2024
    Donor status: individual

    Plus

    National Liberal Club Honorary life membership as Leader of the Liberal Democrats (value provided is that in 2023), value £798

    A seat at Viaro Energy's table at the London Air Ambulance Charity Gala, value £2,500

    And…

    Name of donor: The Football Association
    Address of donor: Wembley Stadium, Wembley, London HA9 0WS
    Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: Two hospitality tickets for me and a family member to attend Taylor Swift's "The Eras Tour", value £584

    It will probably be quicker to highlight the MPs that did NOT get football and Swift tickets
    There are some less well known MPs who declare nil, e.g. Kirsty Blackman (SNP) and Sorcha Eastwood (Alliance). Lots only declare small change, or expenses for Parliamentary group visits, or outside earnings that seem very reasonable (also being a councillor, final payments from employee before they were elected).
    I admire you two doing your best to justify Starmer and others freebies, but look at tonight's survation poll and realise this has cut through and the public do not like it
    Starmer and others… you are starting to twig!!

    How would you change the rules?

    Would you extend these rules to other businesses?
    I would ban all gifts and freebies to elected politicians and increase their salaries

    Starmer salary is far too low but then Gordon Brown was behind the reduction in PM salaries

    As far as the private sector is concerned that is a matter for them and their shareholders
    Unless you state fund election campaigns you won't stop donations to parties and campaigns. I suppose we could stagger the rollout. Ban donations to Labour first and see how that pans out.
    Parties yes but individual politicians no
    5 independent MPs were elected at the general election. What about them?
    The salary needs to be sufficient to prevent this abuse
    It wouldn’t. Since the money is available, and people always want more.

    But MPs are paid absurdly low wages.
    There’s a charm to Britain’s puritanical public service compensation culture, but it’s gone way too far.
    MPs are paid more than 99% of the population, that's not absurdly low.

    MP wages have risen far, far higher than median wages for years now.
    £80,000 ish is more than 99% of the population? I think you've got that a bit wrong
    81000 is top 5%
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,625
    Is @ydoethur available to mark David Lammy’s homework?

    https://x.com/bbcpolitics/status/1513915874008252423

    "Churchill replaced Chamberlain just days before the Second World War, Lloyd George replaced Asquith weeks into Somme, Eden lost his job during the Suez crisis"
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,587
    carnforth said:

    Roger said:

    ...

    Ed Davey has declared a total of £29,500 from 6 donors, and…

    Name of donor: Sudhir Choudhrie
    Address of donor: private
    Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: £25,000 this donation is for the sole purpose of providing additional personal care support to my young son, who has an undiagnosed neurological disorder resulting in severe physical and learning disabilities.
    Date received: 22 March 2024 to 31 October 2024
    Date accepted: 22 March 2024
    Donor status: individual

    Plus

    National Liberal Club Honorary life membership as Leader of the Liberal Democrats (value provided is that in 2023), value £798

    A seat at Viaro Energy's table at the London Air Ambulance Charity Gala, value £2,500

    And…

    Name of donor: The Football Association
    Address of donor: Wembley Stadium, Wembley, London HA9 0WS
    Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: Two hospitality tickets for me and a family member to attend Taylor Swift's "The Eras Tour", value £584

    It will probably be quicker to highlight the MPs that did NOT get football and Swift tickets
    There are some less well known MPs who declare nil, e.g. Kirsty Blackman (SNP) and Sorcha Eastwood (Alliance). Lots only declare small change, or expenses for Parliamentary group visits, or outside earnings that seem very reasonable (also being a councillor, final payments from employee before they were elected).
    I admire you two doing your best to justify Starmer and others freebies, but look at tonight's survation poll and realise this has cut through and the public do not like it
    Starmer and others… you are starting to twig!!

    How would you change the rules?

    Would you extend these rules to other businesses?
    I would ban all gifts and freebies to elected politicians and increase their salaries

    Starmer salary is far too low but then Gordon Brown was behind the reduction in PM salaries

    As far as the private sector is concerned that is a matter for them and their shareholders
    Unless you state fund election campaigns you won't stop donations to parties and campaigns. I suppose we could stagger the rollout. Ban donations to Labour first and see how that pans out.
    Parties yes but individual politicians no
    5 independent MPs were elected at the general election. What about them?
    The salary needs to be sufficient to prevent this abuse
    It wouldn’t. Since the money is available, and people always want more.

    But MPs are paid absurdly low wages.
    There’s a charm to Britain’s puritanical public service compensation culture, but it’s gone way too far.
    MPs are paid more than 99% of the population, that's not absurdly low.

    MP wages have risen far, far higher than median wages for years now.
    £80,000 ish is more than 99% of the population? I think you've got that a bit wrong
    81000 is top 5%
    159000 is top 1%
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,033
    edited September 20

    Foxy said:

    Roger said:

    Starmer should auction all the gifts he was given and give the prooeeds to charity. You should get a good premium for provenance

    There is a demand that Starmer, Reeves, Rayner and others repay the donations which is rather inevitable
    Labour should up the ante and ban all donations to Individual MPs, then we can see the likes of Farage and other tougher squeal.
    I genuine believe all donations to mps should be banned from whatever source
    Aha! So now we are getting somewhere!
    I have been consistent in that for years but attempts to excuse Starmer and his cabinet are falling on deaf ears
    You're on fire tonight BigG. Do you remember when a beer and a curry at the miner's welfare in Durham was worse than multiple lockdown (I didn't think they were) parties in Downing Street?
    There are many who think Starmer got away with that night (cut)
    Well you did for starters.
    Please show me where I came to that conclusion
    By the very fact you wrote your post before last.
    Because I pass a comment that is general knowledge does not mean I concur with it

    Starmer was found to have behaved inpecabibly but unfortunately for him that cannot be said now in this crisis
    It may gain traction and it may harm him, but the very fact that those who believed Johnson "got all the big calls right" are the ones caning the Starmer story for all it's worth diminish their argument. Johnson's wallpaper and Mrs Bamford's home cooking don't worry me either. I have only introduced them to indicate the double standard.

    Not a good look for Starmer, but so far not even scratching the surface of the corruption that went before.
    In fairness I didn't vote for Johnson when I was a member, resigned my membership over Johnson's behaviour, and didn't support Truss v Sunak

    I really think those trying to say this is the Tories are simply trying to deflect from the fact Starmer’s biggest critics are in his own party and as for the media, Kay Burley and Sam Coates are delivered the hatchet job on Sky, let alone the Guardian in the print media
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,250

    Ed Davey has declared a total of £29,500 from 6 donors, and…

    Name of donor: Sudhir Choudhrie
    Address of donor: private
    Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: £25,000 this donation is for the sole purpose of providing additional personal care support to my young son, who has an undiagnosed neurological disorder resulting in severe physical and learning disabilities.
    Date received: 22 March 2024 to 31 October 2024
    Date accepted: 22 March 2024
    Donor status: individual

    Plus

    National Liberal Club Honorary life membership as Leader of the Liberal Democrats (value provided is that in 2023), value £798

    A seat at Viaro Energy's table at the London Air Ambulance Charity Gala, value £2,500

    And…

    Name of donor: The Football Association
    Address of donor: Wembley Stadium, Wembley, London HA9 0WS
    Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: Two hospitality tickets for me and a family member to attend Taylor Swift's "The Eras Tour", value £584

    It will probably be quicker to highlight the MPs that did NOT get football and Swift tickets
    There are some less well known MPs who declare nil, e.g. Kirsty Blackman (SNP) and Sorcha Eastwood (Alliance). Lots only declare small change, or expenses for Parliamentary group visits, or outside earnings that seem very reasonable (also being a councillor, final payments from employee before they were elected).
    I admire you two doing your best to justify Starmer and others freebies, but look at tonight's survation poll and realise this has cut through and the public do not like it
    Starmer and others… you are starting to twig!!

    How would you change the rules?

    Would you extend these rules to other businesses?
    I would ban all gifts and freebies to elected politicians and increase their salaries

    Starmer salary is far too low but then Gordon Brown was behind the reduction in PM salaries

    As far as the private sector is concerned that is a matter for them and their shareholders
    I work in finance. If I accepted £100k of freebies from people I was even thinking about doing business with, I would be in the shit. There are specific laws on relating to bribery that have been carefully toughened over the years on this.

    The fact that, as is *still* the case with expenses, the politicians have carved out some exemptions for themselves cuts no ice with me. Even if it is nice and legal.
  • Foxy said:

    Roger said:

    Starmer should auction all the gifts he was given and give the prooeeds to charity. You should get a good premium for provenance

    There is a demand that Starmer, Reeves, Rayner and others repay the donations which is rather inevitable
    Labour should up the ante and ban all donations to Individual MPs, then we can see the likes of Farage and other tougher squeal.
    I genuine believe all donations to mps should be banned from whatever source
    Aha! So now we are getting somewhere!
    I have been consistent in that for years but attempts to excuse Starmer and his cabinet are falling on deaf ears
    You're on fire tonight BigG. Do you remember when a beer and a curry at the miner's welfare in Durham was worse than multiple lockdown (I didn't think they were) parties in Downing Street?
    There are many who think Starmer got away with that night (cut)
    Well you did for starters.
    Please show me where I came to that conclusion
    By the very fact you wrote your post before last.
    Because I pass a comment that is general knowledge does not mean I concur with it

    Starmer was found to have behaved inpecabibly but unfortunately for him that cannot be said now in this crisis
    What has he done wrong?
    Trashed his brand

    I would just add Ratner didn't do anything wrong but his brand never recovered
    You may be correct, or you may be wishcasting.
    Not wishcasting - just my own intuition on how it looks and a real personal disappointment that Starmer was going to be better
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    edited September 20

    Ed Davey has declared a total of £29,500 from 6 donors, and…

    Name of donor: Sudhir Choudhrie
    Address of donor: private
    Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: £25,000 this donation is for the sole purpose of providing additional personal care support to my young son, who has an undiagnosed neurological disorder resulting in severe physical and learning disabilities.
    Date received: 22 March 2024 to 31 October 2024
    Date accepted: 22 March 2024
    Donor status: individual

    Plus

    National Liberal Club Honorary life membership as Leader of the Liberal Democrats (value provided is that in 2023), value £798

    A seat at Viaro Energy's table at the London Air Ambulance Charity Gala, value £2,500

    And…

    Name of donor: The Football Association
    Address of donor: Wembley Stadium, Wembley, London HA9 0WS
    Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: Two hospitality tickets for me and a family member to attend Taylor Swift's "The Eras Tour", value £584

    It will probably be quicker to highlight the MPs that did NOT get football and Swift tickets
    There are some less well known MPs who declare nil, e.g. Kirsty Blackman (SNP) and Sorcha Eastwood (Alliance). Lots only declare small change, or expenses for Parliamentary group visits, or outside earnings that seem very reasonable (also being a councillor, final payments from employee before they were elected).
    I admire you two doing your best to justify Starmer and others freebies, but look at tonight's survation poll and realise this has cut through and the public do not like it
    Starmer and others… you are starting to twig!!

    How would you change the rules?

    Would you extend these rules to other businesses?
    I would ban all gifts and freebies to elected politicians and increase their salaries

    Starmer salary is far too low but then Gordon Brown was behind the reduction in PM salaries

    As far as the private sector is concerned that is a matter for them and their shareholders
    I work in finance. If I accepted £100k of freebies from people I was even thinking about doing business with, I would be in the shit. There are specific laws on relating to bribery that have been carefully toughened over the years on this.

    The fact that, as is *still* the case with expenses, the politicians have carved out some exemptions for themselves cuts no ice with me. Even if it is nice and legal.
    I don't work in finance but I lose customers because I don't have a box at the Principality Stadium. My business partner has two debentures and we give tickets away for the lesser Autumn Internationals. Face value £70 each, currency value on the day, a fiver.
  • carnforth said:

    Roger said:

    ...

    Ed Davey has declared a total of £29,500 from 6 donors, and…

    Name of donor: Sudhir Choudhrie
    Address of donor: private
    Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: £25,000 this donation is for the sole purpose of providing additional personal care support to my young son, who has an undiagnosed neurological disorder resulting in severe physical and learning disabilities.
    Date received: 22 March 2024 to 31 October 2024
    Date accepted: 22 March 2024
    Donor status: individual

    Plus

    National Liberal Club Honorary life membership as Leader of the Liberal Democrats (value provided is that in 2023), value £798

    A seat at Viaro Energy's table at the London Air Ambulance Charity Gala, value £2,500

    And…

    Name of donor: The Football Association
    Address of donor: Wembley Stadium, Wembley, London HA9 0WS
    Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: Two hospitality tickets for me and a family member to attend Taylor Swift's "The Eras Tour", value £584

    It will probably be quicker to highlight the MPs that did NOT get football and Swift tickets
    There are some less well known MPs who declare nil, e.g. Kirsty Blackman (SNP) and Sorcha Eastwood (Alliance). Lots only declare small change, or expenses for Parliamentary group visits, or outside earnings that seem very reasonable (also being a councillor, final payments from employee before they were elected).
    I admire you two doing your best to justify Starmer and others freebies, but look at tonight's survation poll and realise this has cut through and the public do not like it
    Starmer and others… you are starting to twig!!

    How would you change the rules?

    Would you extend these rules to other businesses?
    I would ban all gifts and freebies to elected politicians and increase their salaries

    Starmer salary is far too low but then Gordon Brown was behind the reduction in PM salaries

    As far as the private sector is concerned that is a matter for them and their shareholders
    Unless you state fund election campaigns you won't stop donations to parties and campaigns. I suppose we could stagger the rollout. Ban donations to Labour first and see how that pans out.
    Parties yes but individual politicians no
    5 independent MPs were elected at the general election. What about them?
    The salary needs to be sufficient to prevent this abuse
    It wouldn’t. Since the money is available, and people always want more.

    But MPs are paid absurdly low wages.
    There’s a charm to Britain’s puritanical public service compensation culture, but it’s gone way too far.
    MPs are paid more than 99% of the population, that's not absurdly low.

    MP wages have risen far, far higher than median wages for years now.
    £80,000 ish is more than 99% of the population? I think you've got that a bit wrong
    81000 is top 5%
    More than 95% of the population is not absurdly low either.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    Foxy said:

    Roger said:

    Starmer should auction all the gifts he was given and give the prooeeds to charity. You should get a good premium for provenance

    There is a demand that Starmer, Reeves, Rayner and others repay the donations which is rather inevitable
    Labour should up the ante and ban all donations to Individual MPs, then we can see the likes of Farage and other tougher squeal.
    I genuine believe all donations to mps should be banned from whatever source
    Aha! So now we are getting somewhere!
    I have been consistent in that for years but attempts to excuse Starmer and his cabinet are falling on deaf ears
    You're on fire tonight BigG. Do you remember when a beer and a curry at the miner's welfare in Durham was worse than multiple lockdown (I didn't think they were) parties in Downing Street?
    There are many who think Starmer got away with that night (cut)
    Well you did for starters.
    Please show me where I came to that conclusion
    By the very fact you wrote your post before last.
    Because I pass a comment that is general knowledge does not mean I concur with it

    Starmer was found to have behaved inpecabibly but unfortunately for him that cannot be said now in this crisis
    What has he done wrong?
    Trashed his brand

    I would just add Ratner didn't do anything wrong but his brand never recovered
    You may be correct, or you may be wishcasting.
    Not wishcasting - just my own intuition on how it looks and a real personal disappointment that Starmer was going to be better
    It isn't a good look, but it would seem to be the norm, perhaps it shouldn't be. Does this look any worse than Johnson taking his pole dancing American IT squeeze on official business whilst holding public office? Common knowledge yet he later won a landslide. Russian Violinists...
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,813
    What I don’t understand about the clothing row is that it doesn’t feel to me insurmountable to have a decent business wardrobe without having to be gifted it by political donors.

    Pre-covid I think I probably had around 7-8 decent suits, a few pairs of decent shoes, shirts and ties etc. Although I appreciate that for the average worker things are less formal now than a top politician, I’m not convinced you need thousands of pounds in clothing donations to maintain a regular, smart wardrobe. What am I missing?
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,998
    FWIW, here are the salaries of the US Congress. You can see that -- in real terms -- they peaked quite some time ago.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salaries_of_members_of_the_United_States_Congress

    Has the quality declined? You can be the judge of that, yourself.

    (Fun fact: In many US states the highest paid public employee is the football coach at the top state university.
    https://frontofficesports.com/who-are-highest-paid-college-football-coaches/ )
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    carnforth said:

    Roger said:

    ...

    Ed Davey has declared a total of £29,500 from 6 donors, and…

    Name of donor: Sudhir Choudhrie
    Address of donor: private
    Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: £25,000 this donation is for the sole purpose of providing additional personal care support to my young son, who has an undiagnosed neurological disorder resulting in severe physical and learning disabilities.
    Date received: 22 March 2024 to 31 October 2024
    Date accepted: 22 March 2024
    Donor status: individual

    Plus

    National Liberal Club Honorary life membership as Leader of the Liberal Democrats (value provided is that in 2023), value £798

    A seat at Viaro Energy's table at the London Air Ambulance Charity Gala, value £2,500

    And…

    Name of donor: The Football Association
    Address of donor: Wembley Stadium, Wembley, London HA9 0WS
    Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: Two hospitality tickets for me and a family member to attend Taylor Swift's "The Eras Tour", value £584

    It will probably be quicker to highlight the MPs that did NOT get football and Swift tickets
    There are some less well known MPs who declare nil, e.g. Kirsty Blackman (SNP) and Sorcha Eastwood (Alliance). Lots only declare small change, or expenses for Parliamentary group visits, or outside earnings that seem very reasonable (also being a councillor, final payments from employee before they were elected).
    I admire you two doing your best to justify Starmer and others freebies, but look at tonight's survation poll and realise this has cut through and the public do not like it
    Starmer and others… you are starting to twig!!

    How would you change the rules?

    Would you extend these rules to other businesses?
    I would ban all gifts and freebies to elected politicians and increase their salaries

    Starmer salary is far too low but then Gordon Brown was behind the reduction in PM salaries

    As far as the private sector is concerned that is a matter for them and their shareholders
    Unless you state fund election campaigns you won't stop donations to parties and campaigns. I suppose we could stagger the rollout. Ban donations to Labour first and see how that pans out.
    Parties yes but individual politicians no
    5 independent MPs were elected at the general election. What about them?
    The salary needs to be sufficient to prevent this abuse
    It wouldn’t. Since the money is available, and people always want more.

    But MPs are paid absurdly low wages.
    There’s a charm to Britain’s puritanical public service compensation culture, but it’s gone way too far.
    MPs are paid more than 99% of the population, that's not absurdly low.

    MP wages have risen far, far higher than median wages for years now.
    £80,000 ish is more than 99% of the population? I think you've got that a bit wrong
    81000 is top 5%
    More than 95% of the population is not absurdly low either.
    Now do it for professional jobs in London.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    GOP Senate candidate in Wisconsin.

    WisDems: BOMBSHELL – Banco Azteca, Mexican bank long reported to be used by drug cartels, flew $26M in cash over US-Mexico border directly to Eric Hovde’s bank
    https://www.wispolitics.com/2024/wisdems-bombshell-banco-azteca-mexican-bank-long-reported-to-be-used-by-drug-cartels-flew-26m-in-cash-over-us-mexico-border-directly-to-eric-hovdes-bank/
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    Harris probably just picked up a net half a percent of the vote in Nevada.

    With no noted dissents, #SCOTUS *rejects* the Nevada Green Party’s emergency application to have Jill Stein put on Nevada’s presidential election ballots:
    https://x.com/steve_vladeck/status/1837134554047406320
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    Republican governor of #Oklahoma just purged a fifth of state’s voters from the rolls (450,000+ of 2.3 million)

    7 weeks before election, and one week after
    @TheOklahoman_ reported Harris could win Oklahoma County.

    https://x.com/anelsona/status/1836839604554465608
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    edited September 21
    Nigelb said:

    Harris probably just picked up a net half a percent of the vote in Nevada.

    With no noted dissents, #SCOTUS *rejects* the Nevada Green Party’s emergency application to have Jill Stein put on Nevada’s presidential election ballots:
    https://x.com/steve_vladeck/status/1837134554047406320

    With the recent polling the straight head-to-heads seem to be looking better for Harris than the ones that includes Stein/West. I guess it's a combination of the major-party candidate being less problematic if you agree with them and the crank realignment.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,561

    Andy_JS said:

    "I took cash for clothes too, admits Rachel Reeves

    Rachel Reeves has admitted she accepted money for clothes, as the backlash over gifts from donors threatened to overshadow the Labour Party conference this weekend. The Chancellor has received almost £7,500 for clothing since 2023 from a friend called Juliet Rosenfeld, the widow of a Labour donor caught up in the 2006 cash for honours scandal."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/09/20/i-took-cash-for-clothes-too-admits-rachel-reeves/

    Why is ladieswear any different to any other gift or donation? A very cruel cynic might submit that it’s because PB is full of lots of slobby middle-aged men with no dress-sense nor interest in fashion.
    A very cruel cynic might submit you are slobby in your morals - when it comes to excusing stuff for which you would have happily crucified the last Government.

    There's no "the other lot did it too!" when you have just spent years calling out a Government that then got booted out by the voters. Dont expect those voters to cut your party any slack for similar shoddy attitudes to financial probity.
  • Penddu2Penddu2 Posts: 689

    Seems like they’re all “at it”, with honourable exceptions.

    Keir’s (and Rachel’s, and Angela’s) stupidity was to think that because they are Labour, it doesn’t count.

    Did they think that? They declared the clothes. What’s the problem?
    Only because they were caught out.

    Seems like they’re all “at it”, with honourable exceptions.

    Keir’s (and Rachel’s, and Angela’s) stupidity was to think that because they are Labour, it doesn’t count.

    Did they think that? They declared the clothes. What’s the problem?
    Only because they were caught out.

    Seems like they’re all “at it”, with honourable exceptions.

    Keir’s (and Rachel’s, and Angela’s) stupidity was to think that because they are Labour, it doesn’t count.

    Did they think that? They declared the clothes. What’s the problem?
    Only because they were caught out.
    Nope. They are all there in the register and they declared them before any media interest.
    Did they declare them as clothing, or merely as “donations to the office”?
    Why does it matter? What’s the problem with clothing - they wear it to work.

    (Ange did name it as clothing FWIW, but who cares?)
    It wouldn’t matter if they were more transparent.

    Sorry - I don't want to see Keith in a sheer negligee....
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    @Leon was asking why US urban spaces are so ugly.

    The most popular 'hoods in LA (Larchmont, Sunset Junction in Silver Lake, Abbot-Kinney in Venice, HLP along York & Fig) have one thing in common:

    They're centered around walkable retail corridors which would be illegal to build under our current zoning & building codes.

    https://x.com/moseskagan/status/1837107441177350502
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,860
    Nigelb said:

    @Leon was asking why US urban spaces are so ugly.

    The most popular 'hoods in LA (Larchmont, Sunset Junction in Silver Lake, Abbot-Kinney in Venice, HLP along York & Fig) have one thing in common:

    They're centered around walkable retail corridors which would be illegal to build under our current zoning & building codes.

    https://x.com/moseskagan/status/1837107441177350502

    It mostly that they were almost all built relatively recently. Had the retail and commercial centres of British towns all been built within living memory, I doubt they would look any better (cf. city centres rebuilt after wartime destruction).
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    Nigelb said:

    @Leon was asking why US urban spaces are so ugly.

    The most popular 'hoods in LA (Larchmont, Sunset Junction in Silver Lake, Abbot-Kinney in Venice, HLP along York & Fig) have one thing in common:

    They're centered around walkable retail corridors which would be illegal to build under our current zoning & building codes.

    https://x.com/moseskagan/status/1837107441177350502

    Errr: Montana in Santa Monica is massively more walkable and European than any of those.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,075
    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Right now I'd vote for PM Farage over Galloway

    And Jenrick

    And Starmer

    Went to Essex hustings tonight with the Tory leadership candidates. Cleverly was affable as ever and wanted to reach out to the nation as a whole and see off Reform by being true to Conservative values not becoming Reform while projecting party unity too.

    Badenoch was sharper than I expected, thoughtful and emphasised the need for the party to sell itself again based on conservative values not just be managerial. Jackie Doyle Price was representing Tugendhat who had another engagement and made clear that the party couldn’t just speak to itself but needed to reach out to the whole country and those Tories who stayed home more than Reform.

    Jenrick was the most slick and polished, a strong speaker and orator and told a few jokes. My main fear is he could be Hague2, excellent at Question Time and his conference speech but maybe got the role too young. Jenrick was also the most rightwing, wanted to move away from Net Zero to protect our industrial base, wanted to leave the ECHR and deport immigrants etc. however he was saying some good things about building new homes for younger people too
    I'd probably choose Badenoch. It's a strong and crowded field, granted.
    The image generated in my mind by "strong and crowded" is a selection of pungent cheeses, which is probably not what you intended. Although when you think of it, "Badenoch", "Jenrick", "Cleverly" and "Tugendhat" do sound like cheeses. "Would you like another slice of Badenoch?" "No thank you, one was quite enough"
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,075

    Helen Morgan (LD):

    Name of donor: Publisher’s Association
    As part of a draw for MPs held by the Publisher’s Association, I received seventy children’s books with an approximate value of £900 to donate to schools and organisations in my constituency.
    Date interest arose: 21 December 2023

    Helen Morgan for PM! For life!
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Andy_JS said:



    I'd probably choose Badenoch. It's a strong and crowded field, granted.

    If one ponders whom the tories would least like to fight in a GE; it's Jenners.

    Turdenhat is whey-faced fucking non-entity with mahou shoujo eyes. Badenoch is a dumpy weirdo who has proved to be an inconsistent campaigner.

    At least Temu Matt Gaetz has demonstrated that he understands that the tory route to victory is through seeing off the Fukkers by re-assembling the brexitard coalition and that he knows exactly what stupid shite he needs to spout to do that.
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