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Getting the non voters out – politicalbetting.com

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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,832
    edited September 2024
    Hmmmm



  • Cookie said:

    Free bus doesn't really cost the state anything. The buses would run anyway. In almost no cases is the freely-bussed pensioner depriving a fare-paying 16-65 year old of a seat.
    And some pensioners would pay a bus fare if they had to. But my bet is the majority
    would drive, taxi or not travel.
    I believe that “free bus travel” is really “prepaid bus travel” with the government paying free bus companies for it
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,520
    edited September 2024
    Andy_JS said:

    New John Gray article in the New Statesman, about JG Ballard.

    "11 September 2024

    JG Ballard’s apocalyptic art
    In Empire of the Sun, published 40 years ago, the great novelist turned his childhood experiences in a Japanese prisoner-of-war camp into a form of personal liberation.

    By John Gray"

    https://www.newstatesman.com/culture/2024/09/jg-ballards-apocalyptic-art

    One of my favourite authors.

    Ballard, I mean, not so much John Gray.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,825
    Leon said:

    Back to THREADS

    I’m driving up beautiful Myra Canyon and a sudden conundrum has struck me. Why do we LIKE being scared? Being scared is not obviously fun. Your heart pounds, you perspire, you cower away and shriek

    And yet we seek it out. We love roller coasters and off piste skiing and ghost stories and horror movies

    But WHY?

    Not everyone likes being scared. Loads don't. Those who do seem to fall into two unequal groups: the distanced scared - roller coasters carefully conformed to safety standards, horror films, war films, ghost stories. These are a sort of substitution activity and is a form of entertainment. The much smaller group likes real unfiltered scary danger, the sort where you clearly may or may not die.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,534
    kamski said:

    I think I saw polling that showed potential Libertarian voters breaking for Harris in forced Harris-Trump choice. I guess they are difficult to poll though. Trump got a hostile reception at their convention I think.
    Libertarian party President prefers Trump

    "'Very scary territory': Libertarian Party president fears what Harris could do to American Dream | Fox News" https://www.foxnews.com/politics/very-scary-territory-libertarian-party-president-fears-what-harris-could-do-american-dream.amp
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,294
    algarkirk said:

    Not everyone likes being scared. Loads don't. Those who do seem to fall into two unequal groups: the distanced scared - roller coasters carefully conformed to safety standards, horror films, war films, ghost stories. These are a sort of substitution activity and is a form of entertainment. The much smaller group likes real unfiltered scary danger, the sort where you clearly may or may not die.
    But….. WHY?

    I’m in both groups so this is personal. I like scary movies and roller coasters but I also like warzones and scuba

    I’m trying to map out some ev psych explanation but it is not obvious
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,773
    HYUFD said:

    Absolutely not, NI funds should be ringfenced for the state pension and JSA and some NHS funds and social care costs
    Pensioners are big users of the NHS and Social Care.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,051

    It stinks of corruption. After what's gone on with the previous government, this Labour government is showing it's not any better. And the stink is coming from the very top.

    Why, Starmer, why? What the **** were you thinking? You're supposed to be the sensible adult in the room. And then you accept this sort of 'deal', and 'forget' to declare it.

    You're no better than the last lot.
    I’m not sure it’s corruption just stupidity. He probably thought that it was such small beer and had justified it to himself that it wasn’t a problem. His problem is he’s such a twatty puritanical preachy knob. If Boris and Carrie did it then everyone would raise an eyebrow or shrug but Sir Keir Cromwell was such a pious prick that he needed to be whiter than white.

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,832
    Omnium said:

    I've never quite understood why he disliked us so, given all the help we gave him personally. (Open to biography suggestions - in English)
    He was trying to rebuild France as a great power. He saw the U.K. as attempting to turn France into a satellite.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,051
    Leon said:

    But….. WHY?

    I’m in both groups so this is personal. I like scary movies and roller coasters but I also like warzones and scuba

    I’m trying to map out some ev psych explanation but it is not obvious
    I strangely find I’m not scared of anything anymore except for dying alone naked in bed and being found a while later. Otherwise ghosts, fights, operations, not so much.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,400
    HYUFD said:

    Libertarian party President prefers Trump

    "'Very scary territory': Libertarian Party president fears what Harris could do to American Dream | Fox News" https://www.foxnews.com/politics/very-scary-territory-libertarian-party-president-fears-what-harris-could-do-american-dream.amp
    Do you have any idea quite what they think is 'very scary'?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,773

    He was trying to rebuild France as a great power. He saw the U.K. as attempting to turn France into a satellite.
    More simply, he though Britain would never be a good partner. Something that Brexiteers agree on.
  • boulay said:

    I’m not sure it’s corruption just stupidity. He probably thought that it was such small beer and had justified it to himself that it wasn’t a problem. His problem is he’s such a twatty puritanical preachy knob. If Boris and Carrie did it then everyone would raise an eyebrow or shrug but Sir Keir Cromwell was such a pious prick that he needed to be whiter than white.

    If this was a Conservative MP, let alone Conservative leader, Starmer would not be saying "It's just stupidity, not corruption".

    This all interrelates as well: it's not the first time he's forgotten to declare free gifts; and AIUI this time it's connected with the donor getting a No. 10 pass.

    One of his few selling points was that he was an adult in the room; someone who could get things done properly without fuss, as he apparently did during his time as DPP.

    It stinks. And the amounts make it worse.

    Boris was (rightly) brought down by a cake. SKS will get away with this, but he should not.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,051

    He was trying to rebuild France as a great power. He saw the U.K. as attempting to turn France into a satellite.
    The allies should never have let French forces “liberate” Paris. They should have made it clear who had done the heavy lifting. I think they were so worried about a communist streak in France that they didn’t want a humiliated France. De Gaulle was an absolute truly chauvinistic French man but probably what the French needed to avoid turmoil after the war.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,832
    Foxy said:

    More simply, he though Britain would never be a good partner. Something that Brexiteers agree on.
    Even simpler. France was The Great Power in Europe. West Germany was far behind France, and still occupied.

    De Gaulle’s vision was that Europe would be run by France, which would therefore increase French power.

    If the U.K. joined Europe the. France would have a rival/equal in Europe.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,051
    edited September 2024

    If this was a Conservative MP, let alone Conservative leader, Starmer would not be saying "It's just stupidity, not corruption".

    This all interrelates as well: it's not the first time he's forgotten to declare free gifts; and AIUI this time it's connected with the donor getting a No. 10 pass.

    One of his few selling points was that he was an adult in the room; someone who could get things done properly without fuss, as he apparently did during his time as DPP.

    It stinks. And the amounts make it worse.

    Boris was (rightly) brought down by a cake. SKS will get away with this, but he should not.
    To be fair if we don’t have to see this dreadful suit again it might be good for the country.




    And the “son of a toolmaker” shoes.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,895
    Andy_JS said:

    33 secs.

    "Visa's gone. Everything's dead."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrHoMSRZOS4
    Not that CASH would be much use, either.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,170
    Foxy said:

    More simply, he though Britain would never be a good partner. Something that Brexiteers agree on.
    He thought we'd ultimately favour America over Europe, and he was right.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,895
    Omnium said:

    I've never quite understood why he disliked us so, given all the help we gave him personally. (Open to biography suggestions - in English)
    Because he was a vain, arrogant nationalist fucker who never got over the humiliation of France's defeat and Britain's survival.

    Ted Heath's longest fit of pique had nothing on De Gaulle.

    Still, at least he didn't collaborate.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,895
    Leon said:

    But….. WHY?

    I’m in both groups so this is personal. I like scary movies and roller coasters but I also like warzones and scuba

    I’m trying to map out some ev psych explanation but it is not obvious
    We're probably programmed to want to habituate ourselves to fear. Just as animals play hunting.
    There's an obvious evolutionary survival advantage in that.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,913
    edited September 2024
    HYUFD said:

    Absolutely not, NI funds should be ringfenced for the state pension and JSA and some NHS funds and social care costs
    The sensible thing to do would be to apply a 25% standard rate tax band with comparative increases in the higher rates and abolish NI altogether

    At the same time increase the tax threshold to £15,000 and then fairness applies to all parts of the electorate
  • boulay said:

    To be fair if we don’t have to see this dreadful suit again it might be good for the country.




    And the “son of a toolmaker” shoes.
    Lammy apparently met Biden with Starmer wearing trainers
  • Leon said:

    But….. WHY?

    I’m in both groups so this is personal. I like scary movies and roller coasters but I also like warzones and scuba

    I’m trying to map out some ev psych explanation but it is not obvious
    Good cure for boredom and depression

    Exhilaration at survival

    Peer pressure (shame at not participating/kudos for success)

    Sense of mastery

    There's a dreadful fascination for those who do this sort of shit in the writing of the likes of Melanie Reid (horses) or this guy https://www.2arms1head.com/ (motorbike) or this guy https://diaryofapunter.substack.com/about (rock climbing) who are alive but tetraplegic as a result of their sport. We tell ourselves all the risks are worth it. I think they are trying to tell us the opposite.

    2arms1head is literally a suicide note btw. Trigger warning.
  • boulay said:

    My phone has the unfortunate habit of changing a particular word so whenever I’m firing off a message about a “new bank” it sends as “Jew bank” which is really quite unfortunate.
    Oy vey!!
  • Leon said:

    Jesus fucking Christ YES

    In 2019 the country wanted Brexit done and they had Boris to do it. So they chose Boris. Also STOP BREXIT was mad. It was treasonous. It was Revoke. It was FUCK DEMOCRACY

    In 2024 you had a massively unpopular government but also a dislikeable opposition and a unique chance to surge through the middle with one radical, profound, democratic policy: REJOIN

    You blew it. The dim witted commentary on here shows why. Too stupid and too timid
    I know too many Remainers who are sick of Brexit as a topic of discussion that they certainly wouldn't vote for a party that wanted to spend years reopening that can of worms, to think that it would have helped the Lib Dems at the last election.

    Rejoin doesn't build any houses. It doesn't build any hospitals, or train any doctors. The Tory government just past forgot how to get anything done, because it spent at least five years or so transfixed with the process of leaving the EU. By the time it got to the other side it had forgotten what else it was supposed to be doing and how to do it.

    If Britain could rejoin at the stroke of a pen then I'd do it in a flash, but the thought of spending the rest of the decade doing nothing other than negotiating and implementing British re-entry makes me recoil.

    I think you've badly misjudged the mood of Remainers.
  • Leon said:

    I think the Tories can win easily. Not because they are about to elect a brilliant leader but because I predict Labour are gonna fuck up on multiple fronts and people
    will want to punish them severely

    The way to do that is to vote Tory again

    However, there are several caveats, and top of the list is Reform. How to neutralise that threat without alienating centrists? Not easy but has to be done
    Farage is 60 today. He will be 65 by the next election. He will also have been front and centre in politics for 20 years. I’m not sure I see Reform having the same energy and appeal next time
  • Nigelb said:

    Not that CASH would be much use, either.
    In the final scene DEAD RATS are the medium of exchange.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,400
    boulay said:

    To be fair if we don’t have to see this dreadful suit again it might be good for the country.




    And the “son of a toolmaker” shoes.
    It's the 'lights off' thinking that worries me. He's doing ok, but if he does anything like this as PM the game is over.
  • Leon said:

    Back to THREADS

    I’m driving up beautiful Myra Canyon and a sudden conundrum has struck me. Why do we LIKE being scared? Being scared is not obviously fun. Your heart pounds, you perspire, you cower away and shriek

    And yet we seek it out. We love roller coasters and off piste skiing and ghost stories and horror movies

    But WHY?

    We also enjoy watching people suffer hugely painful, cruel and brutal deaths that are as imaginative and nasty as possible. Because we can imagine it being done to us as well.

    Which is even more weird.
  • Lammy apparently met Biden with Starmer wearing trainers
    Joe Biden would have approved.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-13214321/joe-biden-hoka-trainers-pippa-middleton-harry-styles-reese-witherspoon.html
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,051

    Lammy apparently met Biden with Starmer wearing trainers
    It’s just tragic wankery. Grown adults thinking they are edgy by dressing badly. You have people praising Angela Rayner for dressing like a student - she’s a sodding cabinet member, Deputy PM of the UK. Scruffy politicians for a scruffy country.
  • Nigelb said:

    Because he was a vain, arrogant nationalist fucker who never got over the humiliation of France's defeat and Britain's survival.

    Ted Heath's longest fit of pique had nothing on De Gaulle.

    Still, at least he didn't collaborate.
    Didn't deGaulle take umbrage at being snubbed by Churchill?
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,400

    We also enjoy watching people suffer hugely painful, cruel and brutal deaths that are as imaginative and nasty as possible. Because we can imagine it being done to us as well.

    Which is even more weird.
    I'm entirely sure that at least some of us don't. Really?
  • Lammy apparently met Biden with Starmer wearing trainers
    Grammatically fascinating. Any one of the 3 could be the trainer wearer. If it's Biden I doubt he makes the choice these days
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,895
    I've been around to see a lot of violent and hateful episodes in American life. Eg the widespread unrest, crackdowns, killings, bombings, etc of late 1960s - early 1970s.

    But for me this has a parallel only in early/mid 1960s — Bull Connor, Philadelphia Mississippi, Lester Maddox, the Selma Bridge. And this time it is egged on by *national* candidates and "leaders" (Trump and Vance), rather than die-hard regional resisters.

    And the national GOP stands behind them.

    https://x.com/JamesFallows/status/1835084099645850017
  • boulay said:

    The allies should never have let French forces “liberate” Paris. They should have made it clear who had done the heavy lifting. I think they were so worried about a communist streak in France that they didn’t want a humiliated France. De Gaulle was an absolute truly chauvinistic French man but probably what the French needed to avoid turmoil after the war.
    Depends what you mean by heavy lifting, the UK suffered c.450k deaths in total during WWII, France c.600k. Of course a shitload of French civvy deaths were caused by the Allies, but I think that could still be described fairly as a sacrifice to the cause.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,051
    edited September 2024

    Didn't deGaulle take umbrage at being snubbed by Churchill?
    He was rightly snubbed as he was an obstructive and vain arsehole. He’s very lucky there was no better French leader to coalesce the free French around. The Americans were also exasperated by his posturing and positioning.
  • Nigelb said:

    Not that CASH would be much use, either.
    Only a barter economy would work. Possibly you'd get to a point where gold could act as a store of value/status symbol again, due to shinyness and rarety, but not initially.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,697
    algarkirk said:

    Not everyone likes being scared. Loads don't. Those who do seem to fall into two unequal groups: the distanced scared - roller coasters carefully conformed to safety standards, horror films, war films, ghost stories. These are a sort of substitution activity and is a form of entertainment. The much smaller group likes real unfiltered scary danger, the sort where you clearly may or may not die.
    I enjoy roller coasters, but just for the speed and the cheap thrill - I don't find them scary.

    I don't enjoy horror films (or, actually, most non-comedy fiction) at all - because they're scary.

    I quite like overcoming something scary. Like when I went coasteering last year. That was quite satisfying. Oh,and snowboarding at the limit of my capabilities. I suppose I like the moment after the fear goes away.
  • Didn't deGaulle take umbrage at being snubbed by Churchill?
    It stems from Vichy.

    Even up to a few days before D-Day de Gaulle kept on denying Jews were being rounded up

    It also stems from the fact that Churchill and de Gaulle were both captured in earlier wars but Churchill was fine with it and de Gaulle was sensitive to the accusations he surrendered.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,051

    Depends what you mean by heavy lifting, the UK suffered c.450k deaths in total during WWII, France c.600k. Of course a shitload of French civvy deaths were caused by the Allies, but I think that could still be described fairly as a sacrifice to the cause.
    Absolutely - Normandy suffered in particular but the point remains that it was largely the US, the UK, Canada and other allies who got France out from Nazi control and by allowing the French forces and De Gaulle to have such a prominent and symbolic role in liberating Paris allowed the French self delusion legs. Anyway, lovely country so alls well that ends well.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,277

    I know too many Remainers who are sick of Brexit as a topic of discussion that they certainly wouldn't vote for a party that wanted to spend years reopening that can of worms, to think that it would have helped the Lib Dems at the last election.

    Rejoin doesn't build any houses. It doesn't build any hospitals, or train any doctors. The Tory government just past forgot how to get anything done, because it spent at least five years or so transfixed with the process of leaving the EU. By the time it got to the other side it had forgotten what else it was supposed to be doing and how to do it.

    If Britain could rejoin at the stroke of a pen then I'd do it in a flash, but the thought of spending the rest of the decade doing nothing other than negotiating and implementing British re-entry makes me recoil.

    I think you've badly misjudged the mood of Remainers.
    Most Remainers I know don’t want more years of drama and division and certainly don’t want another EU referendum . I would of course though want closer links with the EU and I’d like to see a youth mobility scheme set up and going back into Erasmus . If there’s a huge increase in support for re-joining then a new vote might happen but it’s for future generations and many years away if it ever happens .
  • boulay said:

    It’s just tragic wankery. Grown adults thinking they are edgy by dressing badly. You have people praising Angela Rayner for dressing like a student - she’s a sodding cabinet member, Deputy PM of the UK. Scruffy politicians for a scruffy country.
    The country's gone to the dogs ever since PMs stopped wearing morning suits as standard.

    If I ever became PM I would insist on morning suits to be worn during all official events/meetings.
  • If this was a Conservative MP, let alone Conservative leader, Starmer would not be saying "It's just stupidity, not corruption".

    This all interrelates as well: it's not the first time he's forgotten to declare free gifts; and AIUI this time it's connected with the donor getting a No. 10 pass.

    One of his few selling points was that he was an adult in the room; someone who could get things done properly without fuss, as he apparently did during his time as DPP.

    It stinks. And the amounts make it worse.

    Boris was (rightly) brought down by a cake. SKS will get away with this, but he should not.
    This is probably a disgraceful piece of snobbery, but my revulsion is for the underlying transaction - hey Mr Rich Guy, please dress up my wife. I don't give a toss about late notification to anyone. It's extraordinary. A possible theory: the world of PMs and billionaires is as high above the world of DPPs as the world of DPPs is above me. He is out of his social depth and thought it would be unacceptably gauche to decline a frock offer.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,400

    It stems from Vichy.

    Even up to a few days before D-Day de Gaulle kept on denying Jews were being rounded up

    It also stems from the fact that Churchill and de Gaulle were both captured in earlier wars but Churchill was fine with it and de Gaulle was sensitive to the accusations he surrendered.
    I don't really believe any of the explanations. However maybe your 'it stems from Vichy' is a big factor.
  • de Gaulle was the primary reason why I voted Remain.

    The French never wanted us in the first place and wanted us to leave, so like all patriotic Brits I voted Remain.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,520
    Nigelb said:

    We're probably programmed to want to habituate ourselves to fear. Just as animals play hunting.
    There's an obvious evolutionary survival advantage in that.
    My cat behaves like a jungle predator when he spots a squirrel in the garden. Low crouch, slow motion creep forward, then LEAP. Never catches one, not even close, so it's not rational behaviour. Nor is it driven by fear or hunger. It is, yes, play. He's playing hunting.
  • Omnium said:

    I don't really believe any of the explanations. However maybe your 'it stems from Vichy' is a big factor.
    This also pissed off de Gaulle.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_on_Mers-el-Kébir
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,520
    edited September 2024
    boulay said:

    I strangely find I’m not scared of anything anymore except for dying alone naked in bed and being found a while later. Otherwise ghosts, fights, operations, not so much.
    Wear pyjamas then. Take that last one off the table.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,051
    mercator said:

    This is probably a disgraceful piece of snobbery, but my revulsion is for the underlying transaction - hey Mr Rich Guy, please dress up my wife. I don't give a toss about late notification to anyone. It's extraordinary. A possible theory: the world of PMs and billionaires is as high above the world of DPPs as the world of DPPs is above me. He is out of his social depth and thought it would be unacceptably gauche to decline a frock offer.
    I think there is a huge social chip on Starmer’s shoulders. He thinks he’s special because he did well but can’t escape the fear that he doesn’t quite fit in. You can see it in his shoes. Neither correct nor stylish. Dull.
  • This also pissed off de Gaulle.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_on_Mers-el-Kébir
    So, is your entire political philosophy guided by what would piss off de Gaulle?
  • boulay said:

    He was rightly snubbed as he was an obstructive and vain arsehole. He’s very lucky there was no better French leader to coalesce the free French around. The Americans were also exasperated by his posturing and positioning.
    There is a lovely anecdote about Churchill insisting that on his death, after the funeral ceremony, his coffin should be taken on its journey to Blenheim by train from Waterloo. This was to ensure that de Gaulle and his French entourage would have to pass through the station named after the battle of 1815 where Napoleon got second prize.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,045

    I know too many Remainers who are sick of Brexit as a topic of discussion that they certainly wouldn't vote for a party that wanted to spend years reopening that can of worms, to think that it would have helped the Lib Dems at the last election.

    Rejoin doesn't build any houses. It doesn't build any hospitals, or train any doctors. The Tory government just past forgot how to get anything done, because it spent at least five years or so transfixed with the process of leaving the EU. By the time it got to the other side it had forgotten what else it was supposed to be doing and how to do it.

    If Britain could rejoin at the stroke of a pen then I'd do it in a flash, but the thought of spending the rest of the decade doing nothing other than negotiating and implementing British re-entry makes me recoil.

    I think you've badly misjudged the mood of Remainers.
    Yep.

    To expand upon that - a very important (and, IMHO opinion, completely correct) lesson that the LDs took away from the entire Brexit/Remain debacle was this: any Rejoin can only happen and be sustained with widespread public support. You have to bring the public with you first. And that's where their Europe stance now comes from: to work towards closer co-operation, show the benefits of closer co-operation, and get people to want to rejoin. Single Market membership being a good first step. But NOT a big pendulum swing to "Rejoin!"

    But we can interpret Leon's suggestion not as a policy for the LDs to believe in but as pure electoral calculation, I suppose. And in that case - no, it wouldn't have worked. Which seats would have fallen due to this siren call that didn't fall before? And would they more than offset the seats that wouldn't have been taken due to it? After all, the South West is the least Remainery area, and that's one reason the LDs evaporated there. St Ives would have fallen back into the LD fold in 2019 without the massive focus on Europe, and there were others like it.

    Best guess, maybe 10-20 of the 72 wouldn't be orange now if the LDs had done that. Maybe more (maybe fewer), but that's where I'm leaning. And maybe 4-5 more would have fallen - if that. I mean, I can't really see Cotswolds North, or Shropshire South screaming out so loudly for Rejoin that they'd have romped into the fold. And, of course, it would have diverted the message from social care, water state, the NHS, the environment, and so on, and given the impression that the LDs were nothing more than Europe-obsessives. After 2019 and 2017 were so big on Europe (especially 2019); this was an opportunity to demonstrate that the LDs weren't just a pro-EU pressure group.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,051
    kinabalu said:

    Wear pyjamas then. Take that last one off the table.
    Grim - pyjamas are what you throw on that first morning with a new girl when you get up to make her tea and it’s all a bit awks. And even then it’s just the bottoms you wear. Terrible for a comfortable sleep.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,045
    On fear: it's because adrenaline is a hell of a drug. And there's good evolutionary arguments that can be made for that.

    "Fear" and "thrill" are very close together because of that. It's why we have adrenaline junkies, and many of us are on that spectrum to one degree or another. Ways to trigger off the adrenaline without putting ourselves into actual danger are therefore attractive.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,294
    Talking of scary, I am right now cycling the Kettle Valley Railway Trail

    Sounds a bit humdrum. Something you’d do on a weekend in Evesham. Or Newent

    It is incredible. It’s the great Canadian railway that linked east to west Canada right through the Manashee mountains via a sequence of remarkable trestle bridges and blasted tunnels. It’s now disused so they’ve turned it into a cycle path

    But what a cycle path. It’s dead flat (railway) so it’s easy but often you are one foot from a 4000 foot drop. No fences. They give you a helmet but I don’t think that would help much

    One skid and over you’d go. And there are parents with 5 year old kids on wobbly bikes


  • So, is your entire political philosophy guided by what would piss off de Gaulle?
    Well the French in general, but my philosophy was guided by this woman as she governed.


  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,400

    This also pissed off de Gaulle.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_on_Mers-el-Kébir
    That was well before de Gaulle was of any great importance.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,520
    Further to JG Ballard. I read Super Cannes, his novel set in a business park in Cannes, when I was working in a business park in Cannes. In the year it was published too.

    Doubt anybody can beat that.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,895
    .

    Didn't deGaulle take umbrage at being snubbed by Churchill?
    At just about everything, I think.
  • Only a barter economy would work. Possibly you'd get to a point where gold could act as a store of value/status symbol again, due to shinyness and rarety, but not initially.
    Would gold be that rare? A lot of gold has been mined since it was a principal store of value.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,051

    There is a lovely anecdote about Churchill insisting that on his death, after the funeral ceremony, his coffin should be taken on its journey to Blenheim by train from Waterloo. This was to ensure that de Gaulle and his French entourage would have to pass through the station named after the battle of 1815 where Napoleon got second prize.
    Lovely stuff, although being a pedant Waterloo station isn’t named after the Battle but after Waterloo Bridge, so it works as cocking a snook. Also Blenheim is named after the battle of Blenheim where we also joined a few euro mates to slap the French which is nice.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,294
    I JUST SAW A PIKA
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,051

    Would gold be that rare? A lot of gold has been mined since it was a principal store of value.
    I’m always slightly sceptical that the amount of gold that’s available on the market and owned matches the amount that’s ever been mined. Tried to work it out once when I wasn’t so lazy but gave up but it’s a close run thing. Is there really the gold in storage that matches the amount “held” in gold funds etc.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,520
    boulay said:

    I think there is a huge social chip on Starmer’s shoulders. He thinks he’s special because he did well but can’t escape the fear that he doesn’t quite fit in. You can see it in his shoes. Neither correct nor stylish. Dull.
    Ah the 'chip on the shoulder'. A favoured slight amongst those on the right side of class privilege seeking to wield it.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,277
    The EU isn’t as toxic now as many people realize the problems of the country are down to governments here . Even with the alleged taking back control of the border immigration went up .

    Those who voted Leave thinking it would solve a lot of problems realize they have been duped . So suggesting closer ties with the EU shouldn’t be controversial now .

    Labour shouldn’t fear the right wing media hysteria about getting closer to the EU.
  • This also pissed off de Gaulle.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_on_Mers-el-Kébir
    It was the Yalta conference that really pissed him off. Just winners, not losers.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,697
    boulay said:

    Grim - pyjamas are what you throw on that first morning with a new girl when you get up to make her tea and it’s all a bit awks. And even then it’s just the bottoms you wear. Terrible for a comfortable sleep.
    Agreed. But naked is too cold, for me - and I must be at least a bit dressed in case I need to get anywhere in a hurry. My solution os boxers and an ancient t-shirt which has been retired from regular circulation but is still comfortable. The one currently under my pillow was bought in a low cost clothing store on The Moor, Sheffield, in 1993. I'm obscurely proud to still be getting use out of it.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,051
    kinabalu said:

    Ah the 'chip on the shoulder'. A favoured slight amongst those on the right side of class privilege seeking to wield it.
    Having a chip on the shoulder isn’t a right/class thing, people have chips about many things. I think he is a classic chap who thinks he is better than those who had what he considers privileged backgrounds, and justifiably so in most cases, but instead of being at one with his ability he carries it like a weight on him. He doesn’t need to. Would make him a better PM if he chilled.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,294
    This is the best cycle path in the world. Completely flat but magnificently exhilarating
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,520
    edited September 2024
    boulay said:

    Grim - pyjamas are what you throw on that first morning with a new girl when you get up to make her tea and it’s all a bit awks. And even then it’s just the bottoms you wear. Terrible for a comfortable sleep.
    I don't find that actually. It's more loosies and tee shirt with me but I'd wear peejays if I was less lazy.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,955
    boulay said:

    It’s just tragic wankery. Grown adults thinking they are edgy by dressing badly. You have people praising Angela Rayner for dressing like a student - she’s a sodding cabinet member, Deputy PM of the UK. Scruffy politicians for a scruffy country.
    coughcoughBorisJohnsoncoughcough
  • Would gold be that rare? A lot of gold has been mined since it was a principal store of value.
    I wear an exorl (anagram) watch partly because James Bond did, but also as a barterable item when the balloon goes up.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,270
    Nigelb said:

    Yes, well done LuckyG.
    The solution for Casino ought to be obvious - offer free Union flags on the other side of the door.
    My guess is they did and the audience made their choice.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,697
    Leon said:

    This is the best cycle path in the world. Completely flat but magnificently exhilarating

    Sounds splendid, if alarming.
    You ought to have a go at the Monsal Trail in Derbyshire, which is Britain's answer to that trail. Implausibly pleasant, on a sunny day. Not so precipitous, but a similar idea.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,294
    If anyone wants to join me, I’m here

    I’m on Trestle 6

    https://www.hellobc.com/stories/5-places-to-experience-bcs-kettle-valley-rail-trail/
  • boulay said:

    I’m always slightly sceptical that the amount of gold that’s available on the market and owned matches the amount that’s ever been mined. Tried to work it out once when I wasn’t so lazy but gave up but it’s a close run thing. Is there really the gold in storage that matches the amount “held” in gold funds etc.
    That's a slightly different issue to do with the way current gold markets operate, and makes me a little bit nervous about the small percentage of my pension supposedly invested in physical gold.

    But, according to one estimate I've seen, 86% of all the gold that's ever been mined has been mined in the last 200 years. And, post-apocalypse, I'd expect economic activity to be much below the level of 200 years ago. So, relatively speaking, if we compare to, say, the economy of 1000AD, a post-apocalypse world would be awash with gold, absolutely swimming in the stuff.

    This also has some implications, though relatively long-term ones, if the global population does soon start to decline, and that decline gathers pace and becomes entrenched. Lots of assets lose a lot of value in a world with a lower population. On the one hand that's great - land and so much else is no longer scarce - but the current capitalist economy that sits on huge piles of debt is not going to function in such a future.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,270
    viewcode said:

    In fairness, the LibDems achieved their highest MP count since 1923, achieved an improvement in seats from 12 to 72(!) (3 taxis to 18 taxis) and piloted a revolutionary new campaigning technique that I think Harris/Walz are copying. I think they'll be happy with that... :)
    What's the new campaigning technique?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,170
    edited September 2024
    nico679 said:

    The EU isn’t as toxic now as many people realize the problems of the country are down to governments here . Even with the alleged taking back control of the border immigration went up .

    Those who voted Leave thinking it would solve a lot of problems realize they have been duped . So suggesting closer ties with the EU shouldn’t be controversial now .

    Labour shouldn’t fear the right wing media hysteria about getting closer to the EU.

    For the next few years, Brapprochment and Brejoin look exactly the same. The Frost/Cummings/Johnson model of Brexit pinged us so far away, and burnt through so much trust, that baby steps are all that can be taken for now.

    Now there may come a point where we, as a nation, conclude "this close and no closer", but I'm not quite sure where that is. Each incremental step seems to make sense on its own terms as a something-for-something.

    And I can't help noticing that those urging something faster tend to not wish non-Conservative politicians well.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,277
    Apparently Trump is safe after gunshots in his vicinity .

    In the USA aren’t you always hearing gunshots ! Looks like a concocted attempt to elicit some sympathy after Trumps bad week.

    Sorry to be so cynical ....
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,294
    Cookie said:

    Sounds splendid, if alarming.
    You ought to have a go at the Monsal Trail in Derbyshire, which is Britain's answer to that trail. Implausibly pleasant, on a sunny day. Not so precipitous, but a similar idea.
    In the Peaks? I love the Peak District. It’s so peculiar - that wildness tucked away amidst urban/industrial Britain

    I’ve now decided this is actually the SECOND best cycle path in the world. There is an even more stimulating one - also completely flat - in the Everglades National Park, where you are expected to calmly cycle around all the wild alligators (that like to bask on the tarmac)

    It was terrifying but the rangers at the gates assured me it was safe. I still wonder if they were hoping I would get eaten
  • Hmmmm



    Clearly photo-shopped! Or AI-ed!!

    As I quasi-recollect, "Alf" preferred HIS cats plump and well-aged . . . NOT small and/or scrawny . . .
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,520
    Cookie said:

    Agreed. But naked is too cold, for me - and I must be at least a bit dressed in case I need to get anywhere in a hurry. My solution os boxers and an ancient t-shirt which has been retired from regular circulation but is still comfortable. The one currently under my pillow was bought in a low cost clothing store on The Moor, Sheffield, in 1993. I'm obscurely proud to still be getting use out of it.
    The third way. Same as me. But if pushed on the binary extremes which do you opt for?

    Pyjamas? Or butt raw naked? Don't wish to polarise but that, I think, is the question.

    Are you with boulay, naked? Or with me in pyjamas?
  • Roger said:

    What's the new campaigning technique?
    Being positive?
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,277
    Apparently two people were firing shots at each other and weren’t targeting Trump . But I expect Trump will milk it regardless and play the martyr .
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,051

    Clearly photo-shopped! Or AI-ed!!

    As I quasi-recollect, "Alf" preferred HIS cats plump and well-aged . . . NOT small and/or scrawny . . .
    Weirdly he has Trump’s hair.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,480
    edited September 2024

    For the next few years, Brapprochment and Brejoin look exactly the same. The Frost/Cummings/Johnson model of Brexit pinged us so far away, and burnt through so much trust, that baby steps are all that can be taken for now.

    Now there may come a point where we, as a nation, conclude "this close and no closer", but I'm not quite sure where that is. Each incremental step seems to make sense on its own terms as a something-for-something.

    And I can't help noticing that those urging something faster tend to not wish non-Conservative politicians well.
    "Hard Brexit" is really a myth. Our relationship is qualitatively about as close as is possible without being part of the SM/CU.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,697
    Leon said:

    In the Peaks? I love the Peak District. It’s so peculiar - that wildness tucked away amidst urban/industrial Britain

    I’ve now decided this is actually the SECOND best cycle path in the world. There is an even more stimulating one - also completely flat - in the Everglades National Park, where you are expected to calmly cycle around all the wild alligators (that like to bask on the tarmac)

    It was terrifying but the rangers at the gates assured me it was safe. I still wonder if they were hoping I would get eaten
    Yes - ISTR the Monsal Trail is actually in the top two of Peak District visitor attractions (vying with Chatsworth). It's well worth a visit - with an early start you can do there-and-back in a morning before a late lunch at the Blind Bull in Great Hucklow. Or else stop in Bakewell for a Bakewell-pudding-based elevenses.

    I'm pleased you like the Peaks. For me, it's one of those situations where we don't value highly enough what's right on our doorstep; I enjoy the Peaks, but I can see them from the motorway bridge at the end of the road, so are a bit unexotic - I get much more excited about the Lakes and the Yorkshire Dales.

    But I remember a night away at a hotel in the Peaks a couple of years back, at which there was a wedding the next day, and lots of 20 somethings from London were turning up - I very much enjoyed the genuine awe they were expressing at the scenery in what I kind of consider my back yard.

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,773

    For the next few years, Brapprochment and Brejoin look exactly the same. The Frost/Cummings/Johnson model of Brexit pinged us so far away, and burnt through so much trust, that baby steps are all that can be taken for now.

    Now there may come a point where we, as a nation, conclude "this close and no closer", but I'm not quite sure where that is. Each incremental step seems to make sense on its own terms as a something-for-something.

    And I can't help noticing that those urging something faster tend to not wish non-Conservative politicians well.
    Yes the salami treatment is the way, and LDs are quite open about our intentions. Join the various programmes, agricultural agreements then Single Market. By the time we apply to Rejoin there will barely be a stub of Brexit left.
  • Foxy said:

    Yes the salami treatment is the way, and LDs are quite open about our intentions. Join the various programmes, agricultural agreements then Single Market. By the time we apply to Rejoin there will barely be a stub of Brexit left.
    You've glossed over the improbability of stage one: the election of a Lib Dem government.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,832

    The country's gone to the dogs ever since PMs stopped wearing morning suits as standard.

    If I ever became PM I would insist on morning suits to be worn during all official events/meetings.


    Indeed
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,832
    boulay said:

    Lovely stuff, although being a pedant Waterloo station isn’t named after the Battle but after Waterloo Bridge, so it works as cocking a snook. Also Blenheim is named after the battle of Blenheim where we also joined a few euro mates to slap the French which is nice.
    Blenheim Palace is a magnificent testimony to some of the most egotistical people to have ever lived.

    Imagine building a place where you have a state room with a tapestry covering a vast wall - showing yourself winning battle. You move to the next state room with a giant tapestry showing you winning another battle…. You proceed thus to the front of your house to look up a driveway to a triumphal column dedicated to yourself…

    It makes the Kardassians appear entirely uninterested in themselves….
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,832
    nico679 said:

    Apparently Trump is safe after gunshots in his vicinity .

    In the USA aren’t you always hearing gunshots ! Looks like a concocted attempt to elicit some sympathy after Trumps bad week.

    Sorry to be so cynical ....

    Shirley that depends how close to a school you are?
  • Tim_in_RuislipTim_in_Ruislip Posts: 439
    edited September 2024
    I'm still puzzled by the Henry Jackson Society polling that had such a big impact on our election.

    It was done by J L Partners and it used "River Sampling for British Muslims, Online panel sample for General Public"

    Why?

    And why different sample sizes? And the fieldwork is 4 weeks for British muslims vs 2 days for the general public.

    It doesn't appear to have been part of a series on, for example, British Hindus and British Jews.

    And the question framing is very... odd.

    And what did their "river sampling" actually look like, in reality?

    They say they're registered with the BPC, so, presumably they are transparent about this stuff?

    Was it actually a random sample, or did they seek out British muslims with extreme views?

    Surely the BPC haven't allowed themselves to be so manipulated? And JL Partners is reputable, no?
  • Nunu5Nunu5 Posts: 981

    It's probably a really bad time to bet on Harris right now.

    Wait for the post debate glow to fade. There are still nearly 2 months to go.

    Well it's REALLY a bad time to bet on Harris now..........
  • ‘I’m selling 35 of my 65 rental homes – this is only the beginning under Labour’

    For many fed-up landlords, the Renters’ Rights Bill is the final straw


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/property/buy-to-let/selling-35-rental-homes-labour-not-only-one/
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,195
    ydoethur said:

    Trump loses yet another lawsuit:

    Trump loses Electric Avenue song legal fight
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c1488zz8jnzo

    That sounds potentially expensive. It was viewed 14 million times.

    Perhaps now all the others will be going after him as well.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,520
    nico679 said:

    Apparently Trump is safe after gunshots in his vicinity .

    In the USA aren’t you always hearing gunshots ! Looks like a concocted attempt to elicit some sympathy after Trumps bad week.

    Sorry to be so cynical ....

    You're right to be. They're desperate and will try anything. They know they're losing.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,832

    I'm still puzzled by the Henry Jackson Society polling that had such a big impact on our election.

    It was done by J L Partners and it used "River Sampling for British Muslims, Online panel sample for General Public"

    Why?

    And why different sample sizes? And the fieldwork is 4 weeks for British muslims vs 2 days for the general public.

    It doesn't appear to have been part of a series on, for example, British Hindus and British Jews.

    And the question framing is very... odd.

    And what did their "river sampling" actually look like, in reality?

    They say they're registered with the BPC, so, presumably they are transparent about this stuff?

    Was it actually a random sample, or did they seek out British muslims with extreme views?

    Surely the BPC haven't allowed themselves to be so manipulated? And JL Partners is reputable, no?

    Links?
This discussion has been closed.