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Life after Starmer – politicalbetting.com

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  • TazTaz Posts: 17,612

    I didn't vote Labour

    I don't regret that either!
    Regrets, I've had a few, but then again too few to mention.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,674
    HYUFD said:

    The only party leaders who the public gave general election majorities to this century, Blair, Cameron, Johnson and Starmer were also voted for by party members to be their leader. Corbyn in 2017 got 40%, more than the 33% Starmer got last month
    The danger of excluding the membership is that one elects a managerial fixer of limited public appeal. Perhaps we should go the other way and choose leaders through regional primaries, the only qualification for which would be stating that one supported the party - some people would lie, but relatively few.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,018
    edited August 2024
    Good morning

    I have to say that Starmer has misjudged this by painting such a depressing and negative message when the country needs optimism and hope

    He is the very antithesis of Blair who had charisma, optimism and flair

    Also he is being engulfed in sleeze and cronyism just weeks into office
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,641
    Is Keir going to use the £22bn 'black hole' as an excuse not to stick with the pledge not to increase income tax or NI??
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,181

    They are going to be judged in 4 years time. What the polls show in the next year is pretty irrelevant. I hope we go back to governments doing unpopular stuff in the first year, dipping in popularity mid term before a recovery. It is still a bit too cyclical for proper long term investment but it is far better than a government too scared to ever do unpopular stuff as it is hard to sell politically.
    If you want a multi term government, you need to set out where you are going and why. Pain because that's all there is, is a ticket to defeat.

    Thatcher won, repeatedly, by saying that while various policies were painful, there was a vision of what she was trying to achieve.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,560
    stodge said:

    To be fair, the Conservatives in Government were still talking about the Winter of Discontent well into the mid-90s as a reason for not voting for Blair. I think there's a good bit of mileage in blaming the previous Conservative-led Governments - the prison system crisis can be laid entirely at the Conservative door for example.

    I don't disagree with much of your analysis of the Coalition - in order to get to No.10, Cameron had to make some promises on not cutting the NHS or Education which were as deleterious as the LD commitment on tuition fees.

    The public finances were in a bad state in 2010 - no one is arguing that - but Osborne and Alexander should have raised taxes more than they did and made shallower but broader cuts to public spending. The origins of the current crisis in local Government finance can be found here - in sheer headcount, the local Government sector has shrunk by a third since 2012 yet it has taken on increasing burdens such as public health and the growing demands on care for vulnerable adults and children.

    To be fair, progress was made on reducing the deficit (the likes of Braverman trumpet that at every opportunity) but the way it was done was counter productive.
    Agree with much of that; it's not just the prisons either; the whole 'crime and justice' sector is a clause to being wrecked as it is possible to be without actually collapsing.
    Lansley's 'reorganisation' of the NHS has given local government a lot of problems, too.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,507

    Perhaps you should be working for Donald Trump as he also sees what he wants as opposed to what is actually visible.

    Jack Russell is clearly standing about two years from first slip and about fifteen yards behind the stumps.

    Might I recommend you watch a cricket match from square leg - it would help you understand how the standard TV position foreshortens the distance behind the stumps.
    I note you don't have an answer on the Hundred, or to the abundant evidence from Mr Eagles that Russell stumped players off bowlers you swore he didn't stand up to...
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,612

    That's quite a low threshold, seven to eight weeks in and the best you can say is you are not impressed but dont regret.
    A tricky cold hard winter will really test any government and its support. But your support seems at best lukewarm.
    I have always voted labour at general elections. I did say prior to this one I did not feel like voting. I was uninspired by the safety first campaign of Starmer.

    I voted labour partly because I found Luke Akehurst quite personable on social media and I really did not like people outside the area telling us how we should vote based on his past association with Pro Israel groups, secondly I did not want a chance of Reform winning the seat (they came second) although I do not regard them with the same level of disdain as others, and also with labour I liked some of what they were proposing on planning, building, getting the economy going again. I am happy to become enthusiastic for them.

    I guess if SKS cannot inspire in an election he is unlikely to inspire in every day politics.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,667

    I think it’s very possible that a lot of the electorate will have a “I voted for a Labour government but I wasn’t expecting this kind of Labour government” moment in the coming months. Whether that will matter in 4/5 years time will depend very much on what happens in the next couple of years or so. If optimism starts to return then Labour have a good chance. They are not, however, setting the stage very well for a perky national optimism by constantly telling us how awful everything is going to be.
    If they have to piss off the electorate, then now is the time to do it.
    Whether or not the policies pay off is a separate matter, which public opinion over the next few months isn't going to tell us much about.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,667

    Perhaps you should be working for Donald Trump as he also sees what he wants as opposed to what is actually visible.

    Jack Russell is clearly standing about two years from first slip and about fifteen yards behind the stumps.

    Might I recommend you watch a cricket match from square leg - it would help you understand how the standard TV position foreshortens the distance behind the stumps.
    No wonder England had problems if they were fielding in such different time zones.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,783
    Sir Keir Pinnochio
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,612

    Good morning

    I have to say that Starmer has misjudged this by painting such a depressing and negative message when the country needs optimism and hope

    He is the very antithesis of Blair who had charisma, optimism and flair

    Also he is being engulfed in sleeze and cronyism just weeks into office

    Morning Big G, thanks for your tips prior to my long weekend in North Wales.
    What a stunning part of the UK you live in.

    Visiting Portmeirion was an absolute highlight.

    The traffic was okay apart from in Kirkby Stephen, I was stuck there an hour.

    Thanks also to the others who offered some useful pointers on the journey.

    It took seven and a half hours to get there and six hours to get back.
  • Taz said:

    Morning Big G, thanks for your tips prior to my long weekend in North Wales.
    What a stunning part of the UK you live in.

    Visiting Portmeirion was an absolute highlight.

    The traffic was okay apart from in Kirkby Stephen, I was stuck there an hour.

    Thanks also to the others who offered some useful pointers on the journey.

    It took seven and a half hours to get there and six hours to get back.
    Really pleased you enjoyed our lovely North Wales and also the traffic was ok
  • Good morning

    I have to say that Starmer has misjudged this by painting such a depressing and negative message when the country needs optimism and hope

    He is the very antithesis of Blair who had charisma, optimism and flair

    Also he is being engulfed in sleeze and cronyism just weeks into office

    What the country needs is cold, hard truth.
    You Tories pissing and moaning about a seven week old Labour government after the last decade your lot put in really makes me smile.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,746

    I'm not quite sure that working in a warehouse and working in a store are as similar as the lady in the BBC article states. It would be interesting for her to work in the warehouse for a while to see.

    More importantly: how did the judge measure the equal value of these roles? How do you measure it?
    An entire industry exists assessing job equivalency. I think it's snakeoil myself but their expert reports form the basis of the decision in most cases.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,018
    edited August 2024

    What the country needs is cold, hard truth.
    You Tories pissing and moaning about a seven week old Labour government after the last decade your lot put in really makes me smile.
    Not moaning - just saying as it is and if that upsets that's politics
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,703
    edited August 2024
    Nigelb said:

    Topping probably has it confused with an army batman.

    After all, I'm sure he knows that 'batter' has been the preferred term in Australia for a long time now.
    Valet not batman ffs.

    And no, as @Sunil_Prasannan so acutely noted with arguably the most famous cricket quote (ie there are no others), it was and is batsman.

    wtf does it matter what it's been in "Australia" for a long time now. Australia as a country in its current form doesn't have a long time, historically, in any case.

    It's batsman.

    Batter is just nonsensical virtue-signalling woke nonsense.
  • stodge said:

    To be fair, the Conservatives in Government were still talking about the Winter of Discontent well into the mid-90s as a reason for not voting for Blair. I think there's a good bit of mileage in blaming the previous Conservative-led Governments - the prison system crisis can be laid entirely at the Conservative door for example.

    I don't disagree with much of your analysis of the Coalition - in order to get to No.10, Cameron had to make some promises on not cutting the NHS or Education which were as deleterious as the LD commitment on tuition fees.

    The public finances were in a bad state in 2010 - no one is arguing that - but Osborne and Alexander should have raised taxes more than they did and made shallower but broader cuts to public spending. The origins of the current crisis in local Government finance can be found here - in sheer headcount, the local Government sector has shrunk by a third since 2012 yet it has taken on increasing burdens such as public health and the growing demands on care for vulnerable adults and children.

    To be fair, progress was made on reducing the deficit (the likes of Braverman trumpet that at every opportunity) but the way it was done was counter productive.
    In 2010 the economy was already recovering until George Osborne imposed Plan A (austerity). Remember Ed Balls' (not Balls's) flatline hand gestures?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,507

    Does Starmer every take a decision that isnt tough ?

    "Tea or coffee Sir Keir ?

    Ooh thats a tough one, if it wasnt for the failure of Tories hot beverage policy etc etc"

    Surely that's easy.

    The answer's a hot chocolate.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,009

    Good morning

    I have to say that Starmer has misjudged this by painting such a depressing and negative message when the country needs optimism and hope

    He is the very antithesis of Blair who had charisma, optimism and flair

    Also he is being engulfed in sleeze and cronyism just weeks into office

    Yes, Starmer is a more organised and polite Gordon Brown but without the intellectual heft and oratory
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,009
    edited August 2024

    The danger of excluding the membership is that one elects a managerial fixer of limited public appeal. Perhaps we should go the other way and choose leaders through regional primaries, the only qualification for which would be stating that one supported the party - some people would lie, but relatively few.
    If we had an elected President we would certainly have primaries for the main party leaders as France and the US do. However their primaries produced Trump and Melenchon and Le Pen and nearly Sanders in 2020 so that does not mean they always produce centrist candidates either
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795
    Taz said:

    I have always voted labour at general elections. I did say prior to this one I did not feel like voting. I was uninspired by the safety first campaign of Starmer.

    I voted labour partly because I found Luke Akehurst quite personable on social media and I really did not like people outside the area telling us how we should vote based on his past association with Pro Israel groups, secondly I did not want a chance of Reform winning the seat (they came second) although I do not regard them with the same level of disdain as others, and also with labour I liked some of what they were proposing on planning, building, getting the economy going again. I am happy to become enthusiastic for them.

    I guess if SKS cannot inspire in an election he is unlikely to inspire in every day politics.
    I agree with you that the opening salvos of this government have been somewhat downbeat! But, it's summer, and no bugger is listening. Is there not some science in scraping the barnacles off the boat, getting all the negative stuff out of the way then going for the visionary stuff when everyone is back in mid-September (and at Conference?).

    Not saying that is the plan, but it would make some sort of sense.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,794
    Barnesian said:

    Haslam 9?
    The original grading was haslam then they decided to change to something else with fewer grades
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,783
    HYUFD said:

    Yes, Starmer is a more organised and polite Gordon Brown but without the intellectual heft and oratory
    His speech is more about steadying the Labour faithful after a shaky start than addressing the nation.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,667
    TOPPING said:

    Valet not batman ffs.

    And no, as @Sunil_Prasannan so acutely noted with arguably the most famous cricket quote (ie there are no others), it was and is batsman.

    wtf does it matter what it's been in "Australia" for a long time now. Australia as a country in its current form doesn't have a long time, historically, in any case.

    It's batsman.

    Batter is just nonsensical virtue-signalling woke nonsense.
    You might not have noticed, but Bradman was Australian.

    I amend my previous comment; you're simply confused.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,979
    OT - definitely sensible to leave it to MPs when in Government. If Starmer fell under a bus is there any guarantee the Labour membership wouldn't go for a Corbynite particularly if the party was polling badly? Would cause absolute turmoil.

    In opposition, quite different. Members should have a vote. There are, obviously, fewer MPs, and the survivors will hold safe seats, which means that the more marginal areas which are necessary for electoral recovery are unrepresented. For instance, at the moment, the Tories don't have a single seat in Wales and just one in NE England. And if the leader doesn't work out they can be dropped without too much harm done in opposition, a case in point being the defenestration of IDS who lacked support among MPs.

    A sensible reform from Starmer if he can get away with it.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,507

    Tempura is the preferred term in more refined circles
    Aussie players have many preferred terms, but I've not hear that one before. Most of them seem to be four letters.
  • HYUFD said:

    Yes, Starmer is a more organised and polite Gordon Brown but without the intellectual heft and oratory
    I get the sense Starmer (and also Rachel Reeves) has technocrat leanings, if that is quite the right word for the belief that for every problem there is a right answer. Maybe that aligns him with Dominic Cummings.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,078

    The danger of excluding the membership is that one elects a managerial fixer of limited public appeal. Perhaps we should go the other way and choose leaders through regional primaries, the only qualification for which would be stating that one supported the party - some people would lie, but relatively few.
    I think that MPs are better judges of the public appeal of a PM candidate than the membership!

    I think it is outrageous that the Tory membership were able to choose the PM. At least Tory MPs are elected and more in touch with the electorate than members.

    The only downside from excluding the membership is you might demotivate activists who you need to deliver leaflets. A small risk worth taking.

    Choosing a LOTO is different from choosing the PM. It is an internal party matter and I think the membership should have a say.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,979

    In 2010 the economy was already recovering until George Osborne imposed Plan A (austerity). Remember Ed Balls' (not Balls's) flatline hand gestures?
    Why Ed Balls' (not Balls's)? Just curious. Balls' is wrong, but I've never heard anything authoritative says that it's right.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,078
    TOPPING said:

    Valet not batman ffs.

    And no, as @Sunil_Prasannan so acutely noted with arguably the most famous cricket quote (ie there are no others), it was and is batsman.

    wtf does it matter what it's been in "Australia" for a long time now. Australia as a country in its current form doesn't have a long time, historically, in any case.

    It's batsman.

    Batter is just nonsensical virtue-signalling woke nonsense.
    How about bowler?
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,612

    I agree with you that the opening salvos of this government have been somewhat downbeat! But, it's summer, and no bugger is listening. Is there not some science in scraping the barnacles off the boat, getting all the negative stuff out of the way then going for the visionary stuff when everyone is back in mid-September (and at Conference?).

    Not saying that is the plan, but it would make some sort of sense.
    Yes, absolutely, get the bad news out of the way in the first 18 months or so and focus on re-election after that. I just think it is all too gloomy and I worry that it will undermine returning confidence in the economy.
  • Barnesian said:

    I think that MPs are better judges of the public appeal of a PM candidate than the membership!

    I think it is outrageous that the Tory membership were able to choose the PM. At least Tory MPs are elected and more in touch with the electorate than members.

    The only downside from excluding the membership is you might demotivate activists who you need to deliver leaflets. A small risk worth taking.

    Choosing a LOTO is different from choosing the PM. It is an internal party matter and I think the membership should have a say.
    Another problem members choosing the PM gives rise to is shown by Liz Truss talking about her mandate.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,703
    Nigelb said:

    You might not have noticed, but Bradman was Australian.

    I amend my previous comment; you're simply confused.
    I definitely didn't notice. Not that it matters. The term for the person in the middle with the Gray Nicolls is a batsman. But for goodness sake carry on with "batter". At least with an internet chatroom you can't see people laughing at you.
  • Why Ed Balls' (not Balls's)? Just curious. Balls' is wrong, but I've never heard anything authoritative says that it's right.
    tbh it was a tongue in cheek riff back to yesterday's pb debate.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,703
    Barnesian said:

    How about bowler?
    Bowler is indeed the correct term. As is wicket keeper. As is batsman.

    I didn't think this would be a point of contention on PB where there are interminable posts about cricket, suggesting people know what they are talking about and which bore people senseless, but here we are.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,161

    Does Starmer every take a decision that isnt tough ?

    "Tea or coffee Sir Keir ?

    Ooh thats a tough one, if it wasnt for the failure of Tories hot beverage policy etc etc"

    It started with Boris wanting both tea AND coffee, a completely unsustainable position Sunk did nothing to fix.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,667

    Why Ed Balls' (not Balls's)? Just curious. Balls' is wrong, but I've never heard anything authoritative says that it's right.
    There's no particular rule.
    It's what you think sounds right, and then spell it as you say it.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,009
    edited August 2024
    Barnesian said:

    I think that MPs are better judges of the public appeal of a PM candidate than the membership!

    I think it is outrageous that the Tory membership were able to choose the PM. At least Tory MPs are elected and more in touch with the electorate than members.

    The only downside from excluding the membership is you might demotivate activists who you need to deliver leaflets. A small risk worth taking.

    Choosing a LOTO is different from choosing the PM. It is an internal party matter and I think the membership should have a say.
    Yes MPs are fantastic judges of public appeal, who can forget the famous Foot landslide of 1983, the Hague triumph of 2001, the huge Brown victory in 2010 or the massive endorsement from the voters for May in 2017 and Rishi in 2024 after MPs alone elected them to be their party's leader!!

    I do agree with you though in power MPs alone should have the final say on the PM as the PM needs a majority of their support to pass laws and budgets
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,353

    I cannot find the footage on YouTube but here’s evidence that Russell stood up when Gooch was bowling when he stumped Wasim Akram in the first innings.

    https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/pakistan-tour-of-england-1992-61462/england-vs-pakistan-3rd-test-63577/full-scorecard
    Ah, that well known fast bowler, Graham Gooch.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,560

    In 2010 the economy was already recovering until George Osborne imposed Plan A (austerity). Remember Ed Balls' (not Balls's) flatline hand gestures?
    Surely both statements are true; the economy was recovering in 2010 but it was still in a bad state.
    Trouble was, Osborne's (and Laws/Alexander's) solution wasn't the best. In particular, as I've argued, cutting Sure Start and the like, and, as Mr Stodge has pointed out, loading more, although unfunded, onto local government created more problems.
    If the politics had allowed, and they didn't, a LibDem/Lab Coalition might have been better. Has to be conceded though that Brown and his Government had run out of energy.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,078

    Is Keir going to use the £22bn 'black hole' as an excuse not to stick with the pledge not to increase income tax or NI??

    He can half fill the black hole by removing the higher rate tax deduction for pension contributions. That would save around £10bn. It should be done anyway. High earners don't need an incentive to save for their pension and it certainly shouldn't be a higher incentive than for standard rate earners.

    This will be a central part of the Reeves package and doesn't break any manifesto commitments.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,667
    TOPPING said:

    I definitely didn't notice. Not that it matters. The term for the person in the middle with the Gray Nicolls is a batsman. But for goodness sake carry on with "batter". At least with an internet chatroom you can't see people laughing at you.
    Check your copy of the Laws of Cricket.

    Valet, FFS...
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,703
    Nigelb said:

    Check your copy of the Laws of Cricket.

    Valet, FFS...
    a) no

    b) soldiers have batmen, officers have orderlies or valets or indeed soldier servants at one point.
  • IcarusIcarus Posts: 1,002
    Reeve isn't stupid. The budget will surely have some tax grabs from the well off - pension tax relief on higher earners for example and goodies for everyone else - increase the basic tax threshold for example.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,181
    DavidL said:

    It started with Boris wanting both tea AND coffee, a completely unsustainable position Sunk did nothing to fix.
    I thought Boris was about having tea, coffee, cake, not cake, giving the cake away, selling the cake, all at the same time?
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,979
    Nigelb said:

    There's no particular rule.
    It's what you think sounds right, and then spell it as you say it.
    I'd say there is a particular rule: a few trivial exceptions aside, to make the possessive of the singular noun you write the singular noun and then put 's at the end.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,161

    I thought Boris was about having tea, coffee, cake, not cake, giving the cake away, selling the cake, all at the same time?
    If you are going to confuse things with cake both the coffee and the tea will be stone cold before a decision is made.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    edited August 2024
    Barnesian said:

    He can half fill the black hole by removing the higher rate tax deduction for pension contributions. That would save around £10bn. It should be done anyway. High earners don't need an incentive to save for their pension and it certainly shouldn't be a higher incentive than for standard rate earners.

    This will be a central part of the Reeves package and doesn't break any manifesto commitments.
    Dropping higher rate income tax relief on pension contributions has been talked about forever. I’ll believe it when it actually happens.

    (It comes with the unintended consequence of making the four-days-a-week option more popular, to avoid the various cliff edges, which is likely not in the Treasury model)
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,507
    Some interesting footage of Russell here as well:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quJ7Sn2I17o

    Not only does it show him a long way from the slips(!) but it shows him catching Geoff Marsh while standing up to Ian Botham. In fact, Russell seems to have initially appealed for a stumping.

    I remember in his later years he was once standing up to James Averis, who was pretty quick (certainly north of 80mph) and he stumped Peter Martin. Magnificent piece of work: he took the ball, and then waited just two seconds until Martin had overbalanced and dragged his foot from the crease. *Then* he stumped him.

    Stewart was good - but not that good.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,560
    Nigelb said:

    Check your copy of the Laws of Cricket.

    Valet, FFS...
    'Batter' allows for women's cricket. Surely no-one is going to argue for 'batswoman'?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,273

    I read an article only last year where Noel Gallagher was saying he would never reform Oasis and he hated his brother. Liam was a c@#t who had threatened Noel's family, was talentless, unreliable, arrogant and he had nothing good to say to him.
    I guess a couple of hundred million quid can change anyone's mind.

    Isn't that just siblings?

    So many love and hate each other at the same time.

    Bros were the same.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,295

    I cannot find the footage on YouTube but here’s evidence that Russell stood up when Gooch was bowling when he stumped Wasim Akram in the first innings.

    https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/pakistan-tour-of-england-1992-61462/england-vs-pakistan-3rd-test-63577/full-scorecard
    17 mins.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdxGuujx-C4
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,560
    DavidL said:

    If you are going to confuse things with cake both the coffee and the tea will be stone cold before a decision is made.
    Dominic Cummins will have the cake before Boris has made a decision.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,507

    'Batter' allows for women's cricket. Surely no-one is going to argue for 'batswoman'?
    The preferred term used to be 'bat.'
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,078
    Icarus said:

    Reeve isn't stupid. The budget will surely have some tax grabs from the well off - pension tax relief on higher earners for example and goodies for everyone else - increase the basic tax threshold for example.

    She should raise personal allowance marginally to ensure people on a basic state pension and a bit of interest from savings don't need to pay income tax. The increase in personal allowance should be restricted to pensioners and would part offset the removal of the winter fuel allowance.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,251
    edited August 2024
    ...

    Good morning

    I have to say that Starmer has misjudged this by painting such a depressing and negative message when the country needs optimism and hope

    He is the very antithesis of Blair who had charisma, optimism and flair

    Also he is being engulfed in sleeze and cronyism just weeks into office

    But we are up S*** Street, despite the PB faithful assuring us the Conservatives bequeathed a golden legacy. Whether Starmer turns that around using appropriate measures remains to be seen. If he does, he gets a second term, if he doesn't we could well see PM Farage. I am personally not entirely convinced the Winter Fuel remedy is the right one.

    As to sleaze and cronyism, I am not sure of the details of the Lord Ali story. I understand it surrounds a party in No. 10, which of course is not a good precedent. But please, for those of you who were quite comfortable with the clown and the clown show that oversaw the son of a KGB officer's elevation to the House of Lords and as for a Foreign Secretary who shook off his minders in order to attend a party held by the self-same KGB Officer, where do we start? When you PB faithful have come to terms that all this corruption wasn't getting the big calls right, you will be entitled to call Lord Ali's No 10 pass sleaze and cronyism.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795
    Barnesian said:

    She should raise personal allowance marginally to ensure people on a basic state pension and a bit of interest from savings don't need to pay income tax. The increase in personal allowance should be restricted to pensioners and would part offset the removal of the winter fuel allowance.
    Why should the increase in PA be restricted to pensioners? They get enough goodies as it is. How did we enter a world where ageism in the tax system and benefit system is acceptable? See also lower minimum wage for 18 year olds.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,273

    First, most politicians are bad speakers and interviewees. These are learned skills but most spend their careers actively avoiding opportunities to learn them. Jeremy Corbyn was a good speaker not because he was naturally gifted but because he'd spent decades addressing crowds on street corners. Gordon Brown was rubbish in a studio because he'd dodged interviews for his whole career.

    We see this often in American presidential elections which are so long and involve so many rallies that often the candidates are noticeably better come election day.

    But Labour also has the self-imposed Brexit problem, which is that if a coherent case is not made before the ballot, no-one, not even on your side, knows what to say afterwards. The Brexiteers settled nothing beforehand, and Labour's Ming vase tactics mean that not even Keir Starmer knows what comes next.
    With Labour's negotiating skills if the Trade Union pay settlements are anything to go by they are likely to give the EU every concession they're asking for in access to the UK market whilst getting precisely nothing in return.
  • Andy_JS said:

    17 mins.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdxGuujx-C4
    Cheers.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,273
    Barnesian said:

    She should raise personal allowance marginally to ensure people on a basic state pension and a bit of interest from savings don't need to pay income tax. The increase in personal allowance should be restricted to pensioners and would part offset the removal of the winter fuel allowance.
    I've advise anyone with a pension or an isa to put away everything they can into it during September and October, as soon as they can.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,161

    ...

    But we are up S*** Street, despite the PB faithful assuring us the Conservatives bequeathed a golden legacy. Whether Starmer turns that around using appropriate measures remains to be seen. If he does, he gets a second term, if he doesn't we could well see PM Farage. I am personally not entirely convinced the Winter Fuel remedy is the right one.

    As to sleaze and cronyism, I am not sure of the details of the Lord Ali story. I understand it surrounds a party in No. 10, which of course is not a good precedent. But please, for those of you who were quite comfortable with the clown and the clown show that oversaw the son of a KGB officer's elevation to the House of Lords and as for a Foreign Secretary who shook off his minders in order to attend a party held by the self-same KGB Officer, where do we start. When you PB faithful have come to terms that all this corruption wasn't getting the big calls right, you will be entitled to call Lord Ali's No 10 pass sleaze and cronyism.
    It is of course possible to condemn both.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,589
    ydoethur said:

    Aussie players have many preferred terms, but I've not hear that one before. Most of them seem to be four letters.
    Aussies and refined circles are mutually exclusive terms.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,295
    edited August 2024
    Who had the bright idea of putting cladding on tower blocks? Beforehand it was impossible to have fires because concrete doesn't burn.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8er93k051xo
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,314

    Isn't that just siblings?

    So many love and hate each other at the same time.

    Bros were the same.
    Ray & Dave Davies
    The Everly Brothers
    Mike & Bernie Winters
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,295
    TOPPING said:

    batsman
    Batsman is the correct word. And fieldsman in Australia.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,783

    ...

    But we are up S*** Street, despite the PB faithful assuring us the Conservatives bequeathed a golden legacy. Whether Starmer turns that around using appropriate measures remains to be seen. If he does, he gets a second term, if he doesn't we could well see PM Farage. I am personally not entirely convinced the Winter Fuel remedy is the right one.

    As to sleaze and cronyism, I am not sure of the details of the Lord Ali story. I understand it surrounds a party in No. 10, which of course is not a good precedent. But please, for those of you who were quite comfortable with the clown and the clown show that oversaw the son of a KGB officer's elevation to the House of Lords and as for a Foreign Secretary who shook off his minders in order to attend a party held by the self-same KGB Officer, where do we start? When you PB faithful have come to terms that all this corruption wasn't getting the big calls right, you will be entitled to call Lord Ali's No 10 pass sleaze and cronyism.
    KSIC - I share your pain.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,507

    Aussies and refined circles are mutually exclusive terms.
    I do love the anecdote about Douglas Jardine.

    An Aussie player called him a fucking bastard.

    He went to the dressing room to demand an apology.

    Vic Richardson opened the door, and having heard the story, turned round and said, 'OK, which of you bastards called this fucking bastard a fucking bastard?'
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 5,685

    I've advise anyone with a pension or an isa to put away everything they can into it during September and October, as soon as they can.
    You think they'd really do "from midnight tonight" not "from April" on stuff this big?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,251
    DavidL said:

    It is of course possible to condemn both.
    That was my point, but those condemning the latter have to first concede the former and Johnson wasn't the Messiah, just a very naughty boy.

    My other implicit point is they aren't equitable examples.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,507
    edited August 2024

    Dominic Cummins will have the cake before Boris has made a decision.
    Will have the cake while Johnson is having the crumpet, shurely?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    carnforth said:

    You think they'd really do "from midnight tonight" not "from April" on stuff this big?
    Yes because they’ve already set a precedent with the VAT on school fees announcement.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,005

    His speech is more about steadying the Labour faithful after a shaky start than addressing the nation.
    Notably not a word on small boats, migration, refugees, returning illegal migrants, population rise, social care, debt, continued borrowing, the millions preferring not to work and a few other things.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,009
    edited August 2024

    ...

    But we are up S*** Street, despite the PB faithful assuring us the Conservatives bequeathed a golden legacy. Whether Starmer turns that around using appropriate measures remains to be seen. If he does, he gets a second term, if he doesn't we could well see PM Farage. I am personally not entirely convinced the Winter Fuel remedy is the right one.

    As to sleaze and cronyism, I am not sure of the details of the Lord Ali story. I understand it surrounds a party in No. 10, which of course is not a good precedent. But please, for those of you who were quite comfortable with the clown and the clown show that oversaw the son of a KGB officer's elevation to the House of Lords and as for a Foreign Secretary who shook off his minders in order to attend a party held by the self-same KGB Officer, where do we start? When you PB faithful have come to terms that all this corruption wasn't getting the big calls right, you will be entitled to call Lord Ali's No 10 pass sleaze and cronyism.
    Farage couldn't become PM without Tory support, certainly if we moved to PR or AV and probably if we kept FPTP too
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,254
    Barnesian said:

    She should raise personal allowance marginally to ensure people on a basic state pension and a bit of interest from savings don't need to pay income tax. The increase in personal allowance should be restricted to pensioners and would part offset the removal of the winter fuel allowance.
    Pensioners include the richest people in the country. We cannot sensibly indemnify them from sharing the tax burden.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 5,685
    Sandpit said:

    Yes because they’ve already set a precedent with the VAT on school fees announcement.
    Well, I don't pay higher rate tax. But I'll get the £4000 into my LISA (speaking of things which might be ripe for abolishment).
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,560
    ydoethur said:

    Will have the cake while Johnson is having the crumpet, shurely?
    Wouldn't have both at the same meal, surely?

    Oh I see what you mean.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,251
    HYUFD said:

    Farage couldn't become PM without Tory support, certainly if we moved to PR or AV and probably if we kept FPTP too
    If Labour collapse and the Conservatives remain as despised as they currently are, don't be so sure.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    ydoethur said:

    Will have the cake while Johnson is having the crumpet, shurely?
    Her name’s Carrie.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,507
    Sandpit said:

    Her name’s Carrie.
    I've heard lots of other suggestions...
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,085
    ydoethur said:

    If we're looking at that list, Reeves is a lay. So is Phillipson for the same reason. In fact, Phillipson may well be first out of the cabinet given the complete disaster that's unfolding in education and her complete lack of grasp of the issues that are about to engulf her. None of them are her fault, but her actions are going to make things much worse rather than better.

    If Starmer is forced out early, surely the value is Cooper? She's the most experienced member of the Cabinet and she's the highest profile role after the Treasury. Given her age I would have thought if Starmer stays for five years or more she probably won't be a candidate.

    fact she is totally and utterly useless does not help her case
  • Barnesian said:

    She should raise personal allowance marginally to ensure people on a basic state pension and a bit of interest from savings don't need to pay income tax. The increase in personal allowance should be restricted to pensioners and would part offset the removal of the winter fuel allowance.
    The 40% higher tax threshold should be reduced for pensioners to compensate.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,507
    malcolmg said:

    fact she is totally and utterly useless does not help her case
    Malc, you think that of all politicians.* So it isn't a deal breaker.

    *Often with good reason.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,161
    malcolmg said:

    fact she is totally and utterly useless does not help her case
    Come on Malcolm, if we are going to start ruling people out on that basis....
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,560
    ydoethur said:

    I've heard lots of other suggestions...
    Not since Carrie, to be fair. AFAIK, anyway. Although I don't move in circles that care much about either of their doings.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,251
    edited August 2024
    ydoethur said:

    Will have the cake while Johnson is having the crumpet, shurely?
    I like the double entendre, however in purely consumption terms, Bunter would have eaten both the cake and any other baked confections.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    carnforth said:

    Well, I don't pay higher rate tax. But I'll get the £4000 into my LISA (speaking of things which might be ripe for abolishment).
    Giving everyone six months to stuff pensions and ISAs before they get severely restricted, is something that could cause all sorts of weird behaviours and unintended consequences for the Treasury.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,009

    If Labour collapse and the Conservatives remain as despised as they currently are, don't be so sure.
    Reform would need to get to 35-40%+ most likely for a majority as tactical voting would be largely against them whereas it was for Starmer who managed one with just 33%.

    Even in the 2019 UK EU Parliament elections Farage's Brexit party only got 30.5% and that was despite the Tories having collapsed to just 8.8%
  • Andy_JS said:

    Who had the bright idea of putting cladding on tower blocks? Beforehand it was impossible to have fires because concrete doesn't burn.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8er93k051xo

    It all comes down to energy efficiency improvements...
  • ydoethur said:

    I do love the anecdote about Douglas Jardine.

    An Aussie player called him a fucking bastard.

    He went to the dressing room to demand an apology.

    Vic Richardson opened the door, and having heard the story, turned round and said, 'OK, which of you bastards called this fucking bastard a fucking bastard?'
    Not quite.

    During the third Test at Adelaide, Jardine went to the Australian dressing-room to demand an apology because one of the Australian players had called Harold Larwood “a bastard”. He was met by Vic Richardson. “OK,” he said, turning round to his team-mates, “which of you bastards called Larwood a bastard instead of this bastard?”

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/nov/20/the-long-history-of-ashes-sledging
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,251
    ydoethur said:

    I've heard lots of other suggestions...
    So not necessarily the solo First Violinist, but the entire string section?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,667

    'Batter' allows for women's cricket. Surely no-one is going to argue for 'batswoman'?
    It's the official nomenclature in the current Laws of Cricket.
    Topping's determination to play language policeman, for a sport he disdains, is distinctly odd.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,161
    Sandpit said:

    Giving everyone six months to stuff pensions and ISAs before they get severely restricted, is something that could cause all sorts of weird behaviours and unintended consequences for the Treasury.
    Yes, we certainly need more saving and less consumption but you can have too much of a good thing if you get it all at once. Sales of new cars, houses and holidays collapse.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,587

    It all comes down to energy efficiency improvements...
    And they look nicer too. Who'd buy a lease in a visibly crumbling 1960s council tower block?
  • TresTres Posts: 2,819

    Oasis at Reading. Long ago....

    The crowd was full of metalheads - Metallica were playing on Sunday night, and many had bought a ticket for the weekend, on the basis that the price wasn't far-off a one day ticket - and you could go in and out of the festival.

    Liam started insulting the crowd - he didn't think they were sufficiently worshipping or something. Stuff was flying at the stage. I was expecting a riot.

    Then James came on, the lead singer took one look, said "Sorry, but we have to do this" - and launched into Sit Down. Which was on every jukebox in the land - non fans knew it. The crowd went from lynch'in time to relaxed in about 3 seconds....
    That sounds very unlikely to me. Surely Oasis would be headlining.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 5,685
    DavidL said:

    Yes, we certainly need more saving and less consumption but you can have too much of a good thing if you get it all at once. Sales of new cars, houses and holidays collapse.
    Plus a lot of personal loans taken out on false premises, probably.
This discussion has been closed.