Only those in exclusion zones outside abortion clinics.
We really don't want that US practice of intimidating picketing of clinics here.
Ooh thats a tough one.
What if we go all BLM , take the knee, and say Babies Lives Matter ?
As long as it's not within an exclusion zone go right ahead.
Women deserve to be able to seek legal healthcare without intimidation.
When I worked in Chritchurch NZ there was a more or less permanent picket of evangelicals outside the abortion clinic. It was unpleasant for staff to run the gauntlet, but far more so for vulnerable patients.
But probably not as unpleasant as for the baby that was about to get snuffed
Perfectly legal healthcare in GB. In Ireland too, and rightly so.
Whether you or I would want one is beside the point. It's for women to choose what to do with their bodies, not middle aged men.
At least we now know who’d be in favour of Islamists praying for divine conversion therapy outside gay clubs.
Well it is a free country, gay pride marches often go past churches and mosques
Still spitting the dummy out because your team were well beaten?
Oh now your just plain boring. I didnt vote in the last election. But its for you to justify the failures of this government for the next 5 years.
Massive public sector pay rises with no productivity attached ? We all know the outcome.
But I'll leave to you to justify closing down the North Sea and putting Scots out of work. Off you go.
How well do you think productivity was rolling along with train strikes, NHS strikes and academics striking?
LOL youre only debating how fast public sector productivity will fall.
No I am not. I am suggesting that with improved morale comes improved performance
Morale is about objectives and leadership. Pay rises buy people off temporarily but if nothing else improves it soon sinks back. In this case nothing has changed.
That's a very narrow minded view, particularly in the light that in many of these cases safety was also an issue on the table.
When it comes down to doctors, nurses and teachers, pissing them off so royally that they leave the sector and even the country, is doing nothing for productivity.
You see pay as the issue I dont. The pay is a symptom of poor organisation. If we trained enough doctors and nurses we wouldnt have the problems we have. A 22% pay rise will not solve the doctor problem. Training more doctors will.
You are seeing supply and demand economics as an answer to, for example, a shortage of Junior Doctors. Adding to the supply would indeed in theory bring wages down. In the same way Stellantis have built lots of Vauxhall cars that they can't sell, so to sell them they discount the prices, but that doesn't work with Junior Doctors. If the demand in the UK for Doctors decreases they **** off to somewhere else to achieve their self-perceived value.
Actually I dont. I see a government prepared to raise its labour bill by 22%. It will spend the money and nothing will change the doctors have already said they will be back for more. If they re going to spend the money they should give them a pay rise in line with inflation and spend say 12% on more doctors. With more doctors they can then treat more patients and also address the ridiculous working hours some doctors have to work to keep the system functioning. And if they are recruiting they should perhaps consider recruiting less women doctors.
Yes, I'm sure paying less and alienating half the potential workforce will work wonders for recruitment and retention.
Shows how little you know what goes on.
Over 50% of those recruited are female. As a good GP friend of mine pointed out the new intake aim to secure a position and then work 3 days a week. My daughter has two friends both female doctors who are aiming to do precisely this. So if we are paying for full time training but getting part time employees it would make sense to look at this.
Consider availablity, though.
There are about 60 thousand young people who do A Level Chemistry each year, which is the core qualification to go on to do a medical degree.
We currently have about 7500 places on medical degree courses each year, with plans to increase that. So as it stands, we're taking a bit more than ten percent of available eighteen year olds. (And trust me, there are many reasons why we don't want all of them doing medicine.) Besides, we need lots of them to do other things with their lives as well. The more you squeeze women out, the higher percentage of men you need. At some point, it stops being sensible.
It would be great to have more doctors, especially if you want to use a "treat 'em mean, keep 'em keen" model of management. But the time and cost of training and the human limit on people who can effectively practice medicine, put limits on that.
Besides, if the pay fails to keep up with the alternatives, why would people choose to study medicine?
That I think is part of the problem. Pay. For a long time, the highest status, best paid career open to scientifically-inclined sixth formers was medicine, and by a long way. Recently, working in computers or even more so in the City has taken over, so junior doctors now look at their old school chums and see how much better some are doing. They then are tempted by Australia for twice the money, or management consultancy.
As an aside, this might ease the path of those for whom medicine is a vocation not just a pay packet.
There is an interesting argument that the feminisation of medicine in the UK is because of the declining prestige of the profession. The line is that ambitious intelligent young men go into tech or the city as these are now more prestigious and financially rewarding, leaving medicine to equally intelligent but more socially skilled and rounded women. It's not that men have been pushed out, more that they left a vacuum.
My GP mates son is also a GP. He found Birmingham had no interest in candidates unless they were Asian women
It's simply that they score better at interview. I would guess that in Leicester half our Medical Students are Asian females.
Leicester and Brum are particularly popular with Asian applicants as seen as Asian friendly cities, compared with places like Middlesborough.
And I bet most people in Middlesbrough can't spell Lester either.
The nearest village to Marlborough is Mildenhall
For some reason it’s pronounced Minal
The village hall is signposted as Minal Village Hall
For some reason the people of North Norfolk pronounce Stiffkey as Stookey.
I believe this is an example of a shibboleth.
Well known, *including pronunciation*, to military vehicle nerds as the name of a sighting attachment for a Bofors gun in WW2 which obviated the need for director control at the cost of having a brown job standing at the gun to tweak it now and then. (There was a training area at the village.)
Washington Post (via Seattle Times) - Kamala Harris is among 1 in 8 Americans who have worked at McDonald’s
Democratic presidential candidate Kamala Harris is emphasizing her middle-class bona fides, and one of the lines she’s coming to rely on in public appearances to make that case is a lesser-known entry on her résumé: former McDonald’s worker.
In an ad that debuted Friday, the Harris campaign highlighted her stint at the Golden Arches. As the camera pans across a set of vintage family photos, the narrator intones: “She grew up in a middle-class home. She was the daughter of a working mom. And she worked at McDonald’s while she got her degree.”
Harris also mentioned the job at Saturday’s rally in Las Vegas, where she told an enthusiastic crowd that “only in America” could two middle-class kids — referring to herself and her running mate, Minnesota Gov. Tim Walz — grow up to be on a ballot for the nation’s highest offices. “I had a summer job at McDonald’s,” she said, by way of underscoring her humble background. . . .
. . . . [McDonald's] said it surveyed a representative sample of American adults and found that 13.7% of people said they had worked or currently work for the chain. . . .
Of course, Trump is no stranger to McDonald’s, although his experience is on the other side of the register. . . . Campaign-finance disclosures have shown Trump’s presidential campaign is spending heavily at the chain. He had delivery orders brought in during both his fraud trial in October and his hush-money trial in April. And he famously served Big Macs several times to athletes visiting the White House. . . .
SSI - Can anyone produce ANY evidence, that Donald Trump has ever done a honest day's work in his entire life?'
Don't bet on it!
"only in America" can educated people be so ignorant. Tbf I doubt she believes it herself but her audience laps it up, ridiculous!
There at least 2 people on here who demonstrate that educated people can be incredibly ignorant
We are all ignorant about lots of things I suppose. But could Starmer get away with "only in Britain could the son of a toolmaker get to be head of government"? It would be adsurd.
An American friend was visiting and I answered his phone when his mother rang and she was all "ooh I love your accent where are you from?" "England" "where did you learn to speak English?" "Um, England" "What language do people speak in England?" "Err, English"
Only those in exclusion zones outside abortion clinics.
We really don't want that US practice of intimidating picketing of clinics here.
Ooh thats a tough one.
What if we go all BLM , take the knee, and say Babies Lives Matter ?
As long as it's not within an exclusion zone go right ahead.
Women deserve to be able to seek legal healthcare without intimidation.
When I worked in Chritchurch NZ there was a more or less permanent picket of evangelicals outside the abortion clinic. It was unpleasant for staff to run the gauntlet, but far more so for vulnerable patients.
But probably not as unpleasant as for the baby that was about to get snuffed
Perfectly legal healthcare in GB. In Ireland too, and rightly so.
Whether you or I would want one is beside the point. It's for women to choose what to do with their bodies, not middle aged men.
At least we now know who’d be in favour of Islamists praying for divine conversion therapy outside gay clubs.
Well it is a free country, gay pride marches often go past churches and mosques
But they don't permanently picket them or atrempt to stop people worshipping in them.
(Many churches are very happy for gays to worship with them).
Only those in exclusion zones outside abortion clinics.
We really don't want that US practice of intimidating picketing of clinics here.
Ooh thats a tough one.
What if we go all BLM , take the knee, and say Babies Lives Matter ?
As long as it's not within an exclusion zone go right ahead.
Women deserve to be able to seek legal healthcare without intimidation.
When I worked in Chritchurch NZ there was a more or less permanent picket of evangelicals outside the abortion clinic. It was unpleasant for staff to run the gauntlet, but far more so for vulnerable patients.
But probably not as unpleasant as for the baby that was about to get snuffed
Perfectly legal healthcare in GB. In Ireland too, and rightly so.
Whether you or I would want one is beside the point. It's for women to choose what to do with their bodies, not middle aged men.
At least we now know who’d be in favour of Islamists praying for divine conversion therapy outside gay clubs.
Well it is a free country, gay pride marches often go past churches and mosques
I don’t think the gay pride marchers are chanting that the occupants of those churches and mosques should turn away from their monotheism and take up buggery.
Only those in exclusion zones outside abortion clinics.
We really don't want that US practice of intimidating picketing of clinics here.
Ooh thats a tough one.
What if we go all BLM , take the knee, and say Babies Lives Matter ?
That feels a little virtue-signally. And very difficult to word. What does "a person praying silently" look like, and how does Constable Savage or PC Copper detect one?
Surely Councils can already ban this via a PSPO, which are essentially designed to allow anything to be banned with no need for evidence as the Council just has to assert that some exists, and open a consultation for 6 weeks, with a very small number of people allowed to challenge and they have do a challenge in I think the High Court, and then implement it?
My Council (I discovered last week) thinks it can use a PSPO to close Public Rights of Way to the Public, on pain of a £100 fine.
Frankly, anyone who has been concerned about how Jews feel during Gaza protests should apoplectic about how women, many of whom are in deep distress, have to make their way past groups of people who tell them they are going to hell on the way to sexual health clinic.
It's not just abortion - an ex of mine had to put up with it on the way to get a dodgy IUD sorted out. It's anything to do with sex.
Oh I agree. I lost my further thoughts to timeout, reading the Telegraph piece.
I'd describe it as styling of a silent protest as "silent prayer" to try and manipulate human rights law - and the T is driving a wedge.
They won't be banning "silent prayer", they'll be banning assemblies and gatherings.
It's very notable - unless I have misread something - that even the previous Conservative Govt had been moving in this direction.
Under the Tories, the Home Office consultation ended in January. Finalised guidance was expected in the spring, but was not published before July’s election.
It could still be done via PSPO, though - even though PSPOs are inherently almost designed to be abused.
Only those in exclusion zones outside abortion clinics.
We really don't want that US practice of intimidating picketing of clinics here.
Ooh thats a tough one.
What if we go all BLM , take the knee, and say Babies Lives Matter ?
As long as it's not within an exclusion zone go right ahead.
Women deserve to be able to seek legal healthcare without intimidation.
When I worked in Chritchurch NZ there was a more or less permanent picket of evangelicals outside the abortion clinic. It was unpleasant for staff to run the gauntlet, but far more so for vulnerable patients.
But probably not as unpleasant as for the baby that was about to get snuffed
Perfectly legal healthcare in GB. In Ireland too, and rightly so.
Whether you or I would want one is beside the point. It's for women to choose what to do with their bodies, not middle aged men.
At least we now know who’d be in favour of Islamists praying for divine conversion therapy outside gay clubs.
Well it is a free country, gay pride marches often go past churches and mosques
I don’t think the gay pride marchers are chanting that the occupants of those churches and mosques should turn away from their monotheism and take up buggery.
Good to see we’re getting an acknowledgment of unity among the mediaeval religions this evening though. They deserve each other.
Only those in exclusion zones outside abortion clinics.
We really don't want that US practice of intimidating picketing of clinics here.
Ooh thats a tough one.
What if we go all BLM , take the knee, and say Babies Lives Matter ?
As long as it's not within an exclusion zone go right ahead.
Women deserve to be able to seek legal healthcare without intimidation.
When I worked in Chritchurch NZ there was a more or less permanent picket of evangelicals outside the abortion clinic. It was unpleasant for staff to run the gauntlet, but far more so for vulnerable patients.
But probably not as unpleasant as for the baby that was about to get snuffed
Perfectly legal healthcare in GB. In Ireland too, and rightly so.
Whether you or I would want one is beside the point. It's for women to choose what to do with their bodies, not middle aged men.
At least we now know who’d be in favour of Islamists praying for divine conversion therapy outside gay clubs.
Well it is a free country, gay pride marches often go past churches and mosques
Cheeky bastards deliberately having marches go down streets!
Still spitting the dummy out because your team were well beaten?
Oh now your just plain boring. I didnt vote in the last election. But its for you to justify the failures of this government for the next 5 years.
Massive public sector pay rises with no productivity attached ? We all know the outcome.
But I'll leave to you to justify closing down the North Sea and putting Scots out of work. Off you go.
How well do you think productivity was rolling along with train strikes, NHS strikes and academics striking?
LOL youre only debating how fast public sector productivity will fall.
No I am not. I am suggesting that with improved morale comes improved performance
Morale is about objectives and leadership. Pay rises buy people off temporarily but if nothing else improves it soon sinks back. In this case nothing has changed.
That's a very narrow minded view, particularly in the light that in many of these cases safety was also an issue on the table.
When it comes down to doctors, nurses and teachers, pissing them off so royally that they leave the sector and even the country, is doing nothing for productivity.
You see pay as the issue I dont. The pay is a symptom of poor organisation. If we trained enough doctors and nurses we wouldnt have the problems we have. A 22% pay rise will not solve the doctor problem. Training more doctors will.
You are seeing supply and demand economics as an answer to, for example, a shortage of Junior Doctors. Adding to the supply would indeed in theory bring wages down. In the same way Stellantis have built lots of Vauxhall cars that they can't sell, so to sell them they discount the prices, but that doesn't work with Junior Doctors. If the demand in the UK for Doctors decreases they **** off to somewhere else to achieve their self-perceived value.
Actually I dont. I see a government prepared to raise its labour bill by 22%. It will spend the money and nothing will change the doctors have already said they will be back for more. If they re going to spend the money they should give them a pay rise in line with inflation and spend say 12% on more doctors. With more doctors they can then treat more patients and also address the ridiculous working hours some doctors have to work to keep the system functioning. And if they are recruiting they should perhaps consider recruiting less women doctors.
Yes, I'm sure paying less and alienating half the potential workforce will work wonders for recruitment and retention.
Shows how little you know what goes on.
Over 50% of those recruited are female. As a good GP friend of mine pointed out the new intake aim to secure a position and then work 3 days a week. My daughter has two friends both female doctors who are aiming to do precisely this. So if we are paying for full time training but getting part time employees it would make sense to look at this.
Consider availablity, though.
There are about 60 thousand young people who do A Level Chemistry each year, which is the core qualification to go on to do a medical degree.
We currently have about 7500 places on medical degree courses each year, with plans to increase that. So as it stands, we're taking a bit more than ten percent of available eighteen year olds. (And trust me, there are many reasons why we don't want all of them doing medicine.) Besides, we need lots of them to do other things with their lives as well. The more you squeeze women out, the higher percentage of men you need. At some point, it stops being sensible.
It would be great to have more doctors, especially if you want to use a "treat 'em mean, keep 'em keen" model of management. But the time and cost of training and the human limit on people who can effectively practice medicine, put limits on that.
Besides, if the pay fails to keep up with the alternatives, why would people choose to study medicine?
That I think is part of the problem. Pay. For a long time, the highest status, best paid career open to scientifically-inclined sixth formers was medicine, and by a long way. Recently, working in computers or even more so in the City has taken over, so junior doctors now look at their old school chums and see how much better some are doing. They then are tempted by Australia for twice the money, or management consultancy.
As an aside, this might ease the path of those for whom medicine is a vocation not just a pay packet.
There is an interesting argument that the feminisation of medicine in the UK is because of the declining prestige of the profession. The line is that ambitious intelligent young men go into tech or the city as these are now more prestigious and financially rewarding, leaving medicine to equally intelligent but more socially skilled and rounded women. It's not that men have been pushed out, more that they left a vacuum.
Isn't it the case that very competent/able men are drawn in to things that are more entrepreneurial, and less bureaucratic/rule based? It seems like medicine has tilted significantly towards the latter in the last 20 years.
I am not sure about this idea that the decline of medicine is really about 'declining prestige', if it was correct, wouldn't women be quitting/avoid the industry as well? Why would women be drawn to something that has 'declining prestige'?
The argument is that Medicine is still relatively prestigious for women still, retaining a feminist aura.
Also because of institutionalised patriarchy, that women have a high rate of "Imposter Syndrome" so more willing to accept inferior posts. The same reason that women are often passed over for promotion.
It's noticeable that while most specialities are now female dominated, the ones thought more prestigious by wider society (incidentally also the specialities with highest earnings) such as the surgical specialities remain male dominated. It isn't down simply to sexism at appointment as female scores at BST are higher than the males, but that fewer apply for Higher Specialist Training (years ST4-7).
Just out of interest, has the idea of 'getting more men in to the industry, particularly where they are underrepresented' entered the discourse yet? Or is the tendency to look for and find societal explanations (ie the 'patriarchy') to explain the situation.
In my own (similarly female dominated) public sector field I just find these discussions to be quite inauthentic and fake, so I don't really get involved in them. We did have an equalities report which I read all 60 pages of, it had mostly quite ok ideas, but somewhat buried in the report was the fact that my department - below very senior management level - was overrepresented by women and ethnic minorities, a particular problem being that the 'white british', which still form a majority of the local population, were significantly under-represented. There are actually only 3 out of about 30 people that meet this definition (including me).
How many manperson-days were involved in compiling this 60-page report, and how many more manperson-days were spent reading it and responding to it?
Incredible that these two once wrote a book together.
Rob Ford @robfordmancs · 5h Professor Haw-Haw suddenly very touchy about criticism of Hungary, a country he has suddenly started visiting and praising a lot…🤔
Only those in exclusion zones outside abortion clinics.
We really don't want that US practice of intimidating picketing of clinics here.
Ooh thats a tough one.
What if we go all BLM , take the knee, and say Babies Lives Matter ?
As long as it's not within an exclusion zone go right ahead.
Women deserve to be able to seek legal healthcare without intimidation.
When I worked in Chritchurch NZ there was a more or less permanent picket of evangelicals outside the abortion clinic. It was unpleasant for staff to run the gauntlet, but far more so for vulnerable patients.
But probably not as unpleasant as for the baby that was about to get snuffed
Perfectly legal healthcare in GB. In Ireland too, and rightly so.
Whether you or I would want one is beside the point. It's for women to choose what to do with their bodies, not middle aged men.
At least we now know who’d be in favour of Islamists praying for divine conversion therapy outside gay clubs.
Well it is a free country, gay pride marches often go past churches and mosques
I don’t think the gay pride marchers are chanting that the occupants of those churches and mosques should turn away from their monotheism and take up buggery.
Socially conservative mosques and Roman Catholic, Orthodox churches and indeed Orthodox Jewish synagogues and conservative evangelical churches would certainly take offense at gay pride being pushed past their doors and trans marchers etc. They take the line those of same sex attraction should remain celibate and marriage reserved for heterosexual couples and sex is the gender you are born with
Still spitting the dummy out because your team were well beaten?
Oh now your just plain boring. I didnt vote in the last election. But its for you to justify the failures of this government for the next 5 years.
Massive public sector pay rises with no productivity attached ? We all know the outcome.
But I'll leave to you to justify closing down the North Sea and putting Scots out of work. Off you go.
How well do you think productivity was rolling along with train strikes, NHS strikes and academics striking?
LOL youre only debating how fast public sector productivity will fall.
No I am not. I am suggesting that with improved morale comes improved performance
Morale is about objectives and leadership. Pay rises buy people off temporarily but if nothing else improves it soon sinks back. In this case nothing has changed.
That's a very narrow minded view, particularly in the light that in many of these cases safety was also an issue on the table.
When it comes down to doctors, nurses and teachers, pissing them off so royally that they leave the sector and even the country, is doing nothing for productivity.
You see pay as the issue I dont. The pay is a symptom of poor organisation. If we trained enough doctors and nurses we wouldnt have the problems we have. A 22% pay rise will not solve the doctor problem. Training more doctors will.
You are seeing supply and demand economics as an answer to, for example, a shortage of Junior Doctors. Adding to the supply would indeed in theory bring wages down. In the same way Stellantis have built lots of Vauxhall cars that they can't sell, so to sell them they discount the prices, but that doesn't work with Junior Doctors. If the demand in the UK for Doctors decreases they **** off to somewhere else to achieve their self-perceived value.
Actually I dont. I see a government prepared to raise its labour bill by 22%. It will spend the money and nothing will change the doctors have already said they will be back for more. If they re going to spend the money they should give them a pay rise in line with inflation and spend say 12% on more doctors. With more doctors they can then treat more patients and also address the ridiculous working hours some doctors have to work to keep the system functioning. And if they are recruiting they should perhaps consider recruiting less women doctors.
Yes, I'm sure paying less and alienating half the potential workforce will work wonders for recruitment and retention.
Shows how little you know what goes on.
Over 50% of those recruited are female. As a good GP friend of mine pointed out the new intake aim to secure a position and then work 3 days a week. My daughter has two friends both female doctors who are aiming to do precisely this. So if we are paying for full time training but getting part time employees it would make sense to look at this.
Consider availablity, though.
There are about 60 thousand young people who do A Level Chemistry each year, which is the core qualification to go on to do a medical degree.
We currently have about 7500 places on medical degree courses each year, with plans to increase that. So as it stands, we're taking a bit more than ten percent of available eighteen year olds. (And trust me, there are many reasons why we don't want all of them doing medicine.) Besides, we need lots of them to do other things with their lives as well. The more you squeeze women out, the higher percentage of men you need. At some point, it stops being sensible.
It would be great to have more doctors, especially if you want to use a "treat 'em mean, keep 'em keen" model of management. But the time and cost of training and the human limit on people who can effectively practice medicine, put limits on that.
Besides, if the pay fails to keep up with the alternatives, why would people choose to study medicine?
That I think is part of the problem. Pay. For a long time, the highest status, best paid career open to scientifically-inclined sixth formers was medicine, and by a long way. Recently, working in computers or even more so in the City has taken over, so junior doctors now look at their old school chums and see how much better some are doing. They then are tempted by Australia for twice the money, or management consultancy.
As an aside, this might ease the path of those for whom medicine is a vocation not just a pay packet.
There is an interesting argument that the feminisation of medicine in the UK is because of the declining prestige of the profession. The line is that ambitious intelligent young men go into tech or the city as these are now more prestigious and financially rewarding, leaving medicine to equally intelligent but more socially skilled and rounded women. It's not that men have been pushed out, more that they left a vacuum.
Isn't it the case that very competent/able men are drawn in to things that are more entrepreneurial, and less bureaucratic/rule based? It seems like medicine has tilted significantly towards the latter in the last 20 years.
I am not sure about this idea that the decline of medicine is really about 'declining prestige', if it was correct, wouldn't women be quitting/avoid the industry as well? Why would women be drawn to something that has 'declining prestige'?
The argument is that Medicine is still relatively prestigious for women still, retaining a feminist aura.
Also because of institutionalised patriarchy, that women have a high rate of "Imposter Syndrome" so more willing to accept inferior posts. The same reason that women are often passed over for promotion.
It's noticeable that while most specialities are now female dominated, the ones thought more prestigious by wider society (incidentally also the specialities with highest earnings) such as the surgical specialities remain male dominated. It isn't down simply to sexism at appointment as female scores at BST are higher than the males, but that fewer apply for Higher Specialist Training (years ST4-7).
Just out of interest, has the idea of 'getting more men in to the industry, particularly where they are underrepresented' entered the discourse yet? Or is the tendency to look for and find societal explanations (ie the 'patriarchy') to explain the situation.
In my own (similarly female dominated) public sector field I just find these discussions to be quite inauthentic and fake, so I don't really get involved in them. We did have an equalities report which I read all 60 pages of, it had mostly quite ok ideas, but somewhat buried in the report was the fact that my department - below very senior management level - was overrepresented by women and ethnic minorities, a particular problem being that the 'white british', which still form a majority of the local population, were significantly under-represented. There are actually only 3 out of about 30 people that meet this definition (including me).
Yes, my Medical School changed the interview format (8 mini interviews) because the existing format seemed to favour women over equally academically distinguished and motivated men. We analyse in course achievement to look for predictive factors at interview, and modify the process by this feedback.
We did the same for sections of scoring that indirectly favoured the privately educated too.
Only those in exclusion zones outside abortion clinics.
We really don't want that US practice of intimidating picketing of clinics here.
Ooh thats a tough one.
What if we go all BLM , take the knee, and say Babies Lives Matter ?
As long as it's not within an exclusion zone go right ahead.
Women deserve to be able to seek legal healthcare without intimidation.
When I worked in Chritchurch NZ there was a more or less permanent picket of evangelicals outside the abortion clinic. It was unpleasant for staff to run the gauntlet, but far more so for vulnerable patients.
But probably not as unpleasant as for the baby that was about to get snuffed
Perfectly legal healthcare in GB. In Ireland too, and rightly so.
Whether you or I would want one is beside the point. It's for women to choose what to do with their bodies, not middle aged men.
It isn't fully, otherwise we would allow abortion until birth
Quite rightly once the foetus is old enough to survive without the mother, the mother cannot freely choose for them to die once in the outside world.
'Aborting' at 35 weeks makes no sense. Simply delivery the baby via C-Section and put into paediatric care.
Prior to viability it remains the mother's right to choose what to do. Which is late enough to cover 99%+ of cases.
Only those in exclusion zones outside abortion clinics.
We really don't want that US practice of intimidating picketing of clinics here.
Ooh thats a tough one.
What if we go all BLM , take the knee, and say Babies Lives Matter ?
As long as it's not within an exclusion zone go right ahead.
Women deserve to be able to seek legal healthcare without intimidation.
When I worked in Chritchurch NZ there was a more or less permanent picket of evangelicals outside the abortion clinic. It was unpleasant for staff to run the gauntlet, but far more so for vulnerable patients.
But probably not as unpleasant as for the baby that was about to get snuffed
Perfectly legal healthcare in GB. In Ireland too, and rightly so.
Whether you or I would want one is beside the point. It's for women to choose what to do with their bodies, not middle aged men.
At least we now know who’d be in favour of Islamists praying for divine conversion therapy outside gay clubs.
Well it is a free country, gay pride marches often go past churches and mosques
But they don't permanently picket them or atrempt to stop people worshipping in them.
(Many churches are very happy for gays to worship with them).
A prayer outside doesn't block women going into abortion clinics either
Incredible that these two once wrote a book together.
Rob Ford @robfordmancs · 5h Professor Haw-Haw suddenly very touchy about criticism of Hungary, a country he has suddenly started visiting and praising a lot…🤔
Only those in exclusion zones outside abortion clinics.
We really don't want that US practice of intimidating picketing of clinics here.
Ooh thats a tough one.
What if we go all BLM , take the knee, and say Babies Lives Matter ?
As long as it's not within an exclusion zone go right ahead.
Women deserve to be able to seek legal healthcare without intimidation.
When I worked in Chritchurch NZ there was a more or less permanent picket of evangelicals outside the abortion clinic. It was unpleasant for staff to run the gauntlet, but far more so for vulnerable patients.
But probably not as unpleasant as for the baby that was about to get snuffed
Perfectly legal healthcare in GB. In Ireland too, and rightly so.
Whether you or I would want one is beside the point. It's for women to choose what to do with their bodies, not middle aged men.
At least we now know who’d be in favour of Islamists praying for divine conversion therapy outside gay clubs.
Well it is a free country, gay pride marches often go past churches and mosques
I don’t think the gay pride marchers are chanting that the occupants of those churches and mosques should turn away from their monotheism and take up buggery.
Only those in exclusion zones outside abortion clinics.
We really don't want that US practice of intimidating picketing of clinics here.
Ooh thats a tough one.
What if we go all BLM , take the knee, and say Babies Lives Matter ?
As long as it's not within an exclusion zone go right ahead.
Women deserve to be able to seek legal healthcare without intimidation.
When I worked in Chritchurch NZ there was a more or less permanent picket of evangelicals outside the abortion clinic. It was unpleasant for staff to run the gauntlet, but far more so for vulnerable patients.
But probably not as unpleasant as for the baby that was about to get snuffed
Perfectly legal healthcare in GB. In Ireland too, and rightly so.
Whether you or I would want one is beside the point. It's for women to choose what to do with their bodies, not middle aged men.
At least we now know who’d be in favour of Islamists praying for divine conversion therapy outside gay clubs.
Well it is a free country, gay pride marches often go past churches and mosques
I don’t think the gay pride marchers are chanting that the occupants of those churches and mosques should turn away from their monotheism and take up buggery.
Socially conservative mosques and Roman Catholic, Orthodox churches and indeed Orthodox Jewish synagogues and conservative evangelical churches would certainly take offense at gay pride being pushed past their doors and trans marchers etc. They take the line those of same sex attraction should remain celibate and marriage reserved for heterosexual couples and sex is the gender you are born with
Only those in exclusion zones outside abortion clinics.
We really don't want that US practice of intimidating picketing of clinics here.
Ooh thats a tough one.
What if we go all BLM , take the knee, and say Babies Lives Matter ?
As long as it's not within an exclusion zone go right ahead.
Women deserve to be able to seek legal healthcare without intimidation.
When I worked in Chritchurch NZ there was a more or less permanent picket of evangelicals outside the abortion clinic. It was unpleasant for staff to run the gauntlet, but far more so for vulnerable patients.
But probably not as unpleasant as for the baby that was about to get snuffed
Perfectly legal healthcare in GB. In Ireland too, and rightly so.
Whether you or I would want one is beside the point. It's for women to choose what to do with their bodies, not middle aged men.
At least we now know who’d be in favour of Islamists praying for divine conversion therapy outside gay clubs.
Well it is a free country, gay pride marches often go past churches and mosques
I don’t think the gay pride marchers are chanting that the occupants of those churches and mosques should turn away from their monotheism and take up buggery.
Still spitting the dummy out because your team were well beaten?
Oh now your just plain boring. I didnt vote in the last election. But its for you to justify the failures of this government for the next 5 years.
Massive public sector pay rises with no productivity attached ? We all know the outcome.
But I'll leave to you to justify closing down the North Sea and putting Scots out of work. Off you go.
How well do you think productivity was rolling along with train strikes, NHS strikes and academics striking?
LOL youre only debating how fast public sector productivity will fall.
No I am not. I am suggesting that with improved morale comes improved performance
Morale is about objectives and leadership. Pay rises buy people off temporarily but if nothing else improves it soon sinks back. In this case nothing has changed.
That's a very narrow minded view, particularly in the light that in many of these cases safety was also an issue on the table.
When it comes down to doctors, nurses and teachers, pissing them off so royally that they leave the sector and even the country, is doing nothing for productivity.
You see pay as the issue I dont. The pay is a symptom of poor organisation. If we trained enough doctors and nurses we wouldnt have the problems we have. A 22% pay rise will not solve the doctor problem. Training more doctors will.
You are seeing supply and demand economics as an answer to, for example, a shortage of Junior Doctors. Adding to the supply would indeed in theory bring wages down. In the same way Stellantis have built lots of Vauxhall cars that they can't sell, so to sell them they discount the prices, but that doesn't work with Junior Doctors. If the demand in the UK for Doctors decreases they **** off to somewhere else to achieve their self-perceived value.
Actually I dont. I see a government prepared to raise its labour bill by 22%. It will spend the money and nothing will change the doctors have already said they will be back for more. If they re going to spend the money they should give them a pay rise in line with inflation and spend say 12% on more doctors. With more doctors they can then treat more patients and also address the ridiculous working hours some doctors have to work to keep the system functioning. And if they are recruiting they should perhaps consider recruiting less women doctors.
Yes, I'm sure paying less and alienating half the potential workforce will work wonders for recruitment and retention.
Shows how little you know what goes on.
Over 50% of those recruited are female. As a good GP friend of mine pointed out the new intake aim to secure a position and then work 3 days a week. My daughter has two friends both female doctors who are aiming to do precisely this. So if we are paying for full time training but getting part time employees it would make sense to look at this.
Consider availablity, though.
There are about 60 thousand young people who do A Level Chemistry each year, which is the core qualification to go on to do a medical degree.
We currently have about 7500 places on medical degree courses each year, with plans to increase that. So as it stands, we're taking a bit more than ten percent of available eighteen year olds. (And trust me, there are many reasons why we don't want all of them doing medicine.) Besides, we need lots of them to do other things with their lives as well. The more you squeeze women out, the higher percentage of men you need. At some point, it stops being sensible.
It would be great to have more doctors, especially if you want to use a "treat 'em mean, keep 'em keen" model of management. But the time and cost of training and the human limit on people who can effectively practice medicine, put limits on that.
Besides, if the pay fails to keep up with the alternatives, why would people choose to study medicine?
That I think is part of the problem. Pay. For a long time, the highest status, best paid career open to scientifically-inclined sixth formers was medicine, and by a long way. Recently, working in computers or even more so in the City has taken over, so junior doctors now look at their old school chums and see how much better some are doing. They then are tempted by Australia for twice the money, or management consultancy.
As an aside, this might ease the path of those for whom medicine is a vocation not just a pay packet.
There is an interesting argument that the feminisation of medicine in the UK is because of the declining prestige of the profession. The line is that ambitious intelligent young men go into tech or the city as these are now more prestigious and financially rewarding, leaving medicine to equally intelligent but more socially skilled and rounded women. It's not that men have been pushed out, more that they left a vacuum.
Isn't it the case that very competent/able men are drawn in to things that are more entrepreneurial, and less bureaucratic/rule based? It seems like medicine has tilted significantly towards the latter in the last 20 years.
I am not sure about this idea that the decline of medicine is really about 'declining prestige', if it was correct, wouldn't women be quitting/avoid the industry as well? Why would women be drawn to something that has 'declining prestige'?
The argument is that Medicine is still relatively prestigious for women still, retaining a feminist aura.
Also because of institutionalised patriarchy, that women have a high rate of "Imposter Syndrome" so more willing to accept inferior posts. The same reason that women are often passed over for promotion.
It's noticeable that while most specialities are now female dominated, the ones thought more prestigious by wider society (incidentally also the specialities with highest earnings) such as the surgical specialities remain male dominated. It isn't down simply to sexism at appointment as female scores at BST are higher than the males, but that fewer apply for Higher Specialist Training (years ST4-7).
Just out of interest, has the idea of 'getting more men in to the industry, particularly where they are underrepresented' entered the discourse yet? Or is the tendency to look for and find societal explanations (ie the 'patriarchy') to explain the situation.
In my own (similarly female dominated) public sector field I just find these discussions to be quite inauthentic and fake, so I don't really get involved in them. We did have an equalities report which I read all 60 pages of, it had mostly quite ok ideas, but somewhat buried in the report was the fact that my department - below very senior management level - was overrepresented by women and ethnic minorities, a particular problem being that the 'white british', which still form a majority of the local population, were significantly under-represented. There are actually only 3 out of about 30 people that meet this definition (including me).
How many manperson-days were involved in compiling this 60-page report, and how many more manperson-days were spent reading it and responding to it?
I have no idea but it is far from a pointless exercise. Following the intervention of a couple of colleagues and a senior director, one of the conclusions was that the organisation should now pay our professional fees, which they have resisted doing until now, but it was 'discovered' that there was an EDI justification/imperative.
Incredible that these two once wrote a book together.
Rob Ford @robfordmancs · 5h Professor Haw-Haw suddenly very touchy about criticism of Hungary, a country he has suddenly started visiting and praising a lot…🤔
Switching to my musings earlier, approval of European democracies of an authoritarian stripe is a National Conservative trait, such as Orban and sometimes the previous Polish regime, as is admiration of Singapore.
Only those in exclusion zones outside abortion clinics.
We really don't want that US practice of intimidating picketing of clinics here.
Ooh thats a tough one.
What if we go all BLM , take the knee, and say Babies Lives Matter ?
As long as it's not within an exclusion zone go right ahead.
Women deserve to be able to seek legal healthcare without intimidation.
When I worked in Chritchurch NZ there was a more or less permanent picket of evangelicals outside the abortion clinic. It was unpleasant for staff to run the gauntlet, but far more so for vulnerable patients.
But probably not as unpleasant as for the baby that was about to get snuffed
Perfectly legal healthcare in GB. In Ireland too, and rightly so.
Whether you or I would want one is beside the point. It's for women to choose what to do with their bodies, not middle aged men.
At least we now know who’d be in favour of Islamists praying for divine conversion therapy outside gay clubs.
Well it is a free country, gay pride marches often go past churches and mosques
I don’t think the gay pride marchers are chanting that the occupants of those churches and mosques should turn away from their monotheism and take up buggery.
Socially conservative mosques and Roman Catholic, Orthodox churches and indeed Orthodox Jewish synagogues and conservative evangelical churches would certainly take offense at gay pride being pushed past their doors and trans marchers etc. They take the line those of same sex attraction should remain celibate and marriage reserved for heterosexual couples and sex is the gender you are born with
Are you seriously objecting to gay people openly walking down a street that happens to contain a fundamentalist church?
Incredible that these two once wrote a book together.
Rob Ford @robfordmancs · 5h Professor Haw-Haw suddenly very touchy about criticism of Hungary, a country he has suddenly started visiting and praising a lot…🤔
Suzda is still pumping gas through the pipeline to Hungary, Slovakia and Austria, about 15% of Russian gas exports to Europe. The deal for Ukraine to permit this pipeline runs out fairly soon, and currently Ukraine gets a small tariff for allowing the gas through.
They could of course simply destroy the pipeline in Ukraine, but much better for Russia to destroy the pipeline in Kursk, thereby reducing supply to those countries, in one of its characteristically heavy handed bombardment. It would mean Putin cutting off his own finances and the gas of his European allies
Only those in exclusion zones outside abortion clinics.
We really don't want that US practice of intimidating picketing of clinics here.
Ooh thats a tough one.
What if we go all BLM , take the knee, and say Babies Lives Matter ?
As long as it's not within an exclusion zone go right ahead.
Women deserve to be able to seek legal healthcare without intimidation.
When I worked in Chritchurch NZ there was a more or less permanent picket of evangelicals outside the abortion clinic. It was unpleasant for staff to run the gauntlet, but far more so for vulnerable patients.
But probably not as unpleasant as for the baby that was about to get snuffed
Perfectly legal healthcare in GB. In Ireland too, and rightly so.
Whether you or I would want one is beside the point. It's for women to choose what to do with their bodies, not middle aged men.
At least we now know who’d be in favour of Islamists praying for divine conversion therapy outside gay clubs.
Well it is a free country, gay pride marches often go past churches and mosques
I don’t think the gay pride marchers are chanting that the occupants of those churches and mosques should turn away from their monotheism and take up buggery.
Socially conservative mosques and Roman Catholic, Orthodox churches and indeed Orthodox Jewish synagogues and conservative evangelical churches would certainly take offense at gay pride being pushed past their doors and trans marchers etc. They take the line those of same sex attraction should remain celibate and marriage reserved for heterosexual couples and sex is the gender you are born with
Hmm, you've even adopted American spelling.
He's a Colonial now. It's fine. We (and The King!) shall mourn him in our own correctly spelled way. May he throw tea into the sea forever. I salute his memory.
Only those in exclusion zones outside abortion clinics.
We really don't want that US practice of intimidating picketing of clinics here.
Ooh thats a tough one.
What if we go all BLM , take the knee, and say Babies Lives Matter ?
As long as it's not within an exclusion zone go right ahead.
Women deserve to be able to seek legal healthcare without intimidation.
When I worked in Chritchurch NZ there was a more or less permanent picket of evangelicals outside the abortion clinic. It was unpleasant for staff to run the gauntlet, but far more so for vulnerable patients.
But probably not as unpleasant as for the baby that was about to get snuffed
Perfectly legal healthcare in GB. In Ireland too, and rightly so.
Whether you or I would want one is beside the point. It's for women to choose what to do with their bodies, not middle aged men.
At least we now know who’d be in favour of Islamists praying for divine conversion therapy outside gay clubs.
Well it is a free country, gay pride marches often go past churches and mosques
But they don't permanently picket them or atrempt to stop people worshipping in them.
(Many churches are very happy for gays to worship with them).
A prayer outside doesn't block women going into abortion clinics either
It is intimidating as part of a picket. I know, I have seen it done in NZ.
Only those in exclusion zones outside abortion clinics.
We really don't want that US practice of intimidating picketing of clinics here.
Ooh thats a tough one.
What if we go all BLM , take the knee, and say Babies Lives Matter ?
As long as it's not within an exclusion zone go right ahead.
Women deserve to be able to seek legal healthcare without intimidation.
When I worked in Chritchurch NZ there was a more or less permanent picket of evangelicals outside the abortion clinic. It was unpleasant for staff to run the gauntlet, but far more so for vulnerable patients.
But probably not as unpleasant as for the baby that was about to get snuffed
Perfectly legal healthcare in GB. In Ireland too, and rightly so.
Whether you or I would want one is beside the point. It's for women to choose what to do with their bodies, not middle aged men.
At least we now know who’d be in favour of Islamists praying for divine conversion therapy outside gay clubs.
Well it is a free country, gay pride marches often go past churches and mosques
I don’t think the gay pride marchers are chanting that the occupants of those churches and mosques should turn away from their monotheism and take up buggery.
Socially conservative mosques and Roman Catholic, Orthodox churches and indeed Orthodox Jewish synagogues and conservative evangelical churches would certainly take offense at gay pride being pushed past their doors and trans marchers etc. They take the line those of same sex attraction should remain celibate and marriage reserved for heterosexual couples and sex is the gender you are born with
Only those in exclusion zones outside abortion clinics.
We really don't want that US practice of intimidating picketing of clinics here.
Ooh thats a tough one.
What if we go all BLM , take the knee, and say Babies Lives Matter ?
As long as it's not within an exclusion zone go right ahead.
Women deserve to be able to seek legal healthcare without intimidation.
When I worked in Chritchurch NZ there was a more or less permanent picket of evangelicals outside the abortion clinic. It was unpleasant for staff to run the gauntlet, but far more so for vulnerable patients.
But probably not as unpleasant as for the baby that was about to get snuffed
Perfectly legal healthcare in GB. In Ireland too, and rightly so.
Whether you or I would want one is beside the point. It's for women to choose what to do with their bodies, not middle aged men.
At least we now know who’d be in favour of Islamists praying for divine conversion therapy outside gay clubs.
Well it is a free country, gay pride marches often go past churches and mosques
But they don't permanently picket them or atrempt to stop people worshipping in them.
(Many churches are very happy for gays to worship with them).
A prayer outside doesn't block women going into abortion clinics either
I don't think that's a fair description TBH - often such gatherings involve considerably more physical things than silent prayer.
Incredible that these two once wrote a book together.
Rob Ford @robfordmancs · 5h Professor Haw-Haw suddenly very touchy about criticism of Hungary, a country he has suddenly started visiting and praising a lot…🤔
As a near victim of a scam right in the centre of Budapest undoubtedly set up with the connivance of the police, I'm doubtful about claims of Hungary being crime free The scam as I discovered later involved official seeming people demanding to see your papers and only returning them when you pay a "fine". Fortunately I had the wit to refuse to hand them over.
I also see the official victimisation rates for murder etc are higher in Hungary than the UK.
Incredible that these two once wrote a book together.
Rob Ford @robfordmancs · 5h Professor Haw-Haw suddenly very touchy about criticism of Hungary, a country he has suddenly started visiting and praising a lot…🤔
Suzda is still pumping gas through the pipeline to Hungary, Slovakia and Austria, about 15% of Russian gas exports to Europe. The deal for Ukraine to permit this pipeline runs out fairly soon, and currently Ukraine gets a small tariff for allowing the gas through.
They could of course simply destroy the pipeline in Ukraine, but much better for Russia to destroy the pipeline in Kursk, thereby reducing supply to those countries, in one of its characteristically heavy handed bombardment. It would mean Putin cutting off his own finances and the gas of his European allies
I think you're underestimating how much of a master-stroke that would be by Putin. Blind side the West by this one act of genius. Didn't see that coming, did you? Like his totally planned fake "We'll take Ukraine in three days" plan which you all fell for while he secretly knew it would take 20+ years and the collapse of Mother Russia.
Only those in exclusion zones outside abortion clinics.
We really don't want that US practice of intimidating picketing of clinics here.
Ooh thats a tough one.
What if we go all BLM , take the knee, and say Babies Lives Matter ?
As long as it's not within an exclusion zone go right ahead.
Women deserve to be able to seek legal healthcare without intimidation.
When I worked in Chritchurch NZ there was a more or less permanent picket of evangelicals outside the abortion clinic. It was unpleasant for staff to run the gauntlet, but far more so for vulnerable patients.
But probably not as unpleasant as for the baby that was about to get snuffed
Perfectly legal healthcare in GB. In Ireland too, and rightly so.
Whether you or I would want one is beside the point. It's for women to choose what to do with their bodies, not middle aged men.
At least we now know who’d be in favour of Islamists praying for divine conversion therapy outside gay clubs.
Well it is a free country, gay pride marches often go past churches and mosques
I don’t think the gay pride marchers are chanting that the occupants of those churches and mosques should turn away from their monotheism and take up buggery.
Socially conservative mosques and Roman Catholic, Orthodox churches and indeed Orthodox Jewish synagogues and conservative evangelical churches would certainly take offense at gay pride being pushed past their doors and trans marchers etc. They take the line those of same sex attraction should remain celibate and marriage reserved for heterosexual couples and sex is the gender you are born with
Hmm, you've even adopted American spelling.
He's a Colonial now. It's fine. We (and The King!) shall mourn him in our own correctly spelled way. May he throw tea into the sea forever. I salute his memory.
Only those in exclusion zones outside abortion clinics.
We really don't want that US practice of intimidating picketing of clinics here.
Ooh thats a tough one.
What if we go all BLM , take the knee, and say Babies Lives Matter ?
As long as it's not within an exclusion zone go right ahead.
Women deserve to be able to seek legal healthcare without intimidation.
When I worked in Chritchurch NZ there was a more or less permanent picket of evangelicals outside the abortion clinic. It was unpleasant for staff to run the gauntlet, but far more so for vulnerable patients.
But probably not as unpleasant as for the baby that was about to get snuffed
Perfectly legal healthcare in GB. In Ireland too, and rightly so.
Whether you or I would want one is beside the point. It's for women to choose what to do with their bodies, not middle aged men.
At least we now know who’d be in favour of Islamists praying for divine conversion therapy outside gay clubs.
Well it is a free country, gay pride marches often go past churches and mosques
But they don't permanently picket them or atrempt to stop people worshipping in them.
(Many churches are very happy for gays to worship with them).
A prayer outside doesn't block women going into abortion clinics either
I don't think that's a fair description TBH - often such gatherings involve considerably more physical things than silent prayer.
Which can already be dealt with under existing assault, public order act laws etc without banning prayer
Only those in exclusion zones outside abortion clinics.
We really don't want that US practice of intimidating picketing of clinics here.
Ooh thats a tough one.
What if we go all BLM , take the knee, and say Babies Lives Matter ?
As long as it's not within an exclusion zone go right ahead.
Women deserve to be able to seek legal healthcare without intimidation.
When I worked in Chritchurch NZ there was a more or less permanent picket of evangelicals outside the abortion clinic. It was unpleasant for staff to run the gauntlet, but far more so for vulnerable patients.
But probably not as unpleasant as for the baby that was about to get snuffed
Perfectly legal healthcare in GB. In Ireland too, and rightly so.
Whether you or I would want one is beside the point. It's for women to choose what to do with their bodies, not middle aged men.
At least we now know who’d be in favour of Islamists praying for divine conversion therapy outside gay clubs.
Well it is a free country, gay pride marches often go past churches and mosques
I don’t think the gay pride marchers are chanting that the occupants of those churches and mosques should turn away from their monotheism and take up buggery.
Socially conservative mosques and Roman Catholic, Orthodox churches and indeed Orthodox Jewish synagogues and conservative evangelical churches would certainly take offense at gay pride being pushed past their doors and trans marchers etc. They take the line those of same sex attraction should remain celibate and marriage reserved for heterosexual couples and sex is the gender you are born with
Are you seriously objecting to gay people openly walking down a street that happens to contain a fundamentalist church?
Seek urgent help
No as they are just a normal citizen then it is not a gay pride march
Only those in exclusion zones outside abortion clinics.
We really don't want that US practice of intimidating picketing of clinics here.
Ooh thats a tough one.
What if we go all BLM , take the knee, and say Babies Lives Matter ?
As long as it's not within an exclusion zone go right ahead.
Women deserve to be able to seek legal healthcare without intimidation.
When I worked in Chritchurch NZ there was a more or less permanent picket of evangelicals outside the abortion clinic. It was unpleasant for staff to run the gauntlet, but far more so for vulnerable patients.
But probably not as unpleasant as for the baby that was about to get snuffed
Perfectly legal healthcare in GB. In Ireland too, and rightly so.
Whether you or I would want one is beside the point. It's for women to choose what to do with their bodies, not middle aged men.
At least we now know who’d be in favour of Islamists praying for divine conversion therapy outside gay clubs.
Well it is a free country, gay pride marches often go past churches and mosques
I don’t think the gay pride marchers are chanting that the occupants of those churches and mosques should turn away from their monotheism and take up buggery.
Socially conservative mosques and Roman Catholic, Orthodox churches and indeed Orthodox Jewish synagogues and conservative evangelical churches would certainly take offense at gay pride being pushed past their doors and trans marchers etc. They take the line those of same sex attraction should remain celibate and marriage reserved for heterosexual couples and sex is the gender you are born with
Are you seriously objecting to gay people openly walking down a street that happens to contain a fundamentalist church?
Seek urgent help
No as they are just a normal citizen then it is not a gay pride march
Incredible that these two once wrote a book together.
Rob Ford @robfordmancs · 5h Professor Haw-Haw suddenly very touchy about criticism of Hungary, a country he has suddenly started visiting and praising a lot…🤔
As a near victim of a scam right in the centre of Budapest undoubtedly set up with the connivance of the police, I'm doubtful about claims of Hungary being crime free The scam as I discovered later involved official seeming people demanding to see your papers and only returning them when you pay a "fine". Fortunately I had the wit to refuse to hand them over.
I also see the official victimisation rates for murder etc are higher in Hungary than the UK.
Only those in exclusion zones outside abortion clinics.
We really don't want that US practice of intimidating picketing of clinics here.
Ooh thats a tough one.
What if we go all BLM , take the knee, and say Babies Lives Matter ?
As long as it's not within an exclusion zone go right ahead.
Women deserve to be able to seek legal healthcare without intimidation.
When I worked in Chritchurch NZ there was a more or less permanent picket of evangelicals outside the abortion clinic. It was unpleasant for staff to run the gauntlet, but far more so for vulnerable patients.
But probably not as unpleasant as for the baby that was about to get snuffed
Perfectly legal healthcare in GB. In Ireland too, and rightly so.
Whether you or I would want one is beside the point. It's for women to choose what to do with their bodies, not middle aged men.
At least we now know who’d be in favour of Islamists praying for divine conversion therapy outside gay clubs.
Well it is a free country, gay pride marches often go past churches and mosques
I don’t think the gay pride marchers are chanting that the occupants of those churches and mosques should turn away from their monotheism and take up buggery.
Socially conservative mosques and Roman Catholic, Orthodox churches and indeed Orthodox Jewish synagogues and conservative evangelical churches would certainly take offense at gay pride being pushed past their doors and trans marchers etc. They take the line those of same sex attraction should remain celibate and marriage reserved for heterosexual couples and sex is the gender you are born with
Are you seriously objecting to gay people openly walking down a street that happens to contain a fundamentalist church?
Seek urgent help
No as they are just a normal citizen then it is not a gay pride march
Only those in exclusion zones outside abortion clinics.
We really don't want that US practice of intimidating picketing of clinics here.
Ooh thats a tough one.
What if we go all BLM , take the knee, and say Babies Lives Matter ?
As long as it's not within an exclusion zone go right ahead.
Women deserve to be able to seek legal healthcare without intimidation.
When I worked in Chritchurch NZ there was a more or less permanent picket of evangelicals outside the abortion clinic. It was unpleasant for staff to run the gauntlet, but far more so for vulnerable patients.
But probably not as unpleasant as for the baby that was about to get snuffed
Perfectly legal healthcare in GB. In Ireland too, and rightly so.
Whether you or I would want one is beside the point. It's for women to choose what to do with their bodies, not middle aged men.
At least we now know who’d be in favour of Islamists praying for divine conversion therapy outside gay clubs.
Well it is a free country, gay pride marches often go past churches and mosques
But they don't permanently picket them or atrempt to stop people worshipping in them.
(Many churches are very happy for gays to worship with them).
A prayer outside doesn't block women going into abortion clinics either
No but it does intimidate them otherwise they wouldn't do it. Prayer isn't location specific and if Christians want to pray for women considering an abortion then they can do so in a way that doesn't intimidate emotionally vulnerable women.
Only those in exclusion zones outside abortion clinics.
We really don't want that US practice of intimidating picketing of clinics here.
Ooh thats a tough one.
What if we go all BLM , take the knee, and say Babies Lives Matter ?
As long as it's not within an exclusion zone go right ahead.
Women deserve to be able to seek legal healthcare without intimidation.
When I worked in Chritchurch NZ there was a more or less permanent picket of evangelicals outside the abortion clinic. It was unpleasant for staff to run the gauntlet, but far more so for vulnerable patients.
But probably not as unpleasant as for the baby that was about to get snuffed
Perfectly legal healthcare in GB. In Ireland too, and rightly so.
Whether you or I would want one is beside the point. It's for women to choose what to do with their bodies, not middle aged men.
At least we now know who’d be in favour of Islamists praying for divine conversion therapy outside gay clubs.
Well it is a free country, gay pride marches often go past churches and mosques
I don’t think the gay pride marchers are chanting that the occupants of those churches and mosques should turn away from their monotheism and take up buggery.
Socially conservative mosques and Roman Catholic, Orthodox churches and indeed Orthodox Jewish synagogues and conservative evangelical churches would certainly take offense at gay pride being pushed past their doors and trans marchers etc. They take the line those of same sex attraction should remain celibate and marriage reserved for heterosexual couples and sex is the gender you are born with
Are you seriously objecting to gay people openly walking down a street that happens to contain a fundamentalist church?
Seek urgent help
No as they are just a normal citizen then it is not a gay pride march
Amazing that these people's faith is so weak, flimsy that it can be threatened by a few people in fancy dress happening to walk near their church.
Also - stop harassing women going to abortion clinics, where the hell is your compassion? You want to protest abortion do it somewhere else for Christ's sake
Only those in exclusion zones outside abortion clinics.
We really don't want that US practice of intimidating picketing of clinics here.
Ooh thats a tough one.
What if we go all BLM , take the knee, and say Babies Lives Matter ?
As long as it's not within an exclusion zone go right ahead.
Women deserve to be able to seek legal healthcare without intimidation.
When I worked in Chritchurch NZ there was a more or less permanent picket of evangelicals outside the abortion clinic. It was unpleasant for staff to run the gauntlet, but far more so for vulnerable patients.
But probably not as unpleasant as for the baby that was about to get snuffed
Perfectly legal healthcare in GB. In Ireland too, and rightly so.
Whether you or I would want one is beside the point. It's for women to choose what to do with their bodies, not middle aged men.
At least we now know who’d be in favour of Islamists praying for divine conversion therapy outside gay clubs.
Well it is a free country, gay pride marches often go past churches and mosques
But they don't permanently picket them or atrempt to stop people worshipping in them.
(Many churches are very happy for gays to worship with them).
A prayer outside doesn't block women going into abortion clinics either
No but it does intimidate them otherwise they wouldn't do it. Prayer isn't location specific and if Christians want to pray for women considering an abortion then they can do so in a way that doesn't intimidate emotionally vulnerable women.
Silent prayer doesn't and now this Labour government even want to ban that!
A propos of nowt much. I see Ajax beat Panathinaikos on penalties to make the final qualifying round for the Europa League group stage. Only mention it because that's the first European Cup Final I remember seeing on TV. How the mighty have fallen!
Only those in exclusion zones outside abortion clinics.
We really don't want that US practice of intimidating picketing of clinics here.
Ooh thats a tough one.
What if we go all BLM , take the knee, and say Babies Lives Matter ?
As long as it's not within an exclusion zone go right ahead.
Women deserve to be able to seek legal healthcare without intimidation.
When I worked in Chritchurch NZ there was a more or less permanent picket of evangelicals outside the abortion clinic. It was unpleasant for staff to run the gauntlet, but far more so for vulnerable patients.
But probably not as unpleasant as for the baby that was about to get snuffed
Perfectly legal healthcare in GB. In Ireland too, and rightly so.
Whether you or I would want one is beside the point. It's for women to choose what to do with their bodies, not middle aged men.
At least we now know who’d be in favour of Islamists praying for divine conversion therapy outside gay clubs.
Well it is a free country, gay pride marches often go past churches and mosques
But they don't permanently picket them or atrempt to stop people worshipping in them.
(Many churches are very happy for gays to worship with them).
A prayer outside doesn't block women going into abortion clinics either
No but it does intimidate them otherwise they wouldn't do it. Prayer isn't location specific and if Christians want to pray for women considering an abortion then they can do so in a way that doesn't intimidate emotionally vulnerable women.
Silent prayer doesn't and now this Labour government even want to ban that!
Then can you explain what theological reason there is to go and pray outside of an abortion clinic rather than doing it at home or in church?
Only those in exclusion zones outside abortion clinics.
We really don't want that US practice of intimidating picketing of clinics here.
Ooh thats a tough one.
What if we go all BLM , take the knee, and say Babies Lives Matter ?
As long as it's not within an exclusion zone go right ahead.
Women deserve to be able to seek legal healthcare without intimidation.
When I worked in Chritchurch NZ there was a more or less permanent picket of evangelicals outside the abortion clinic. It was unpleasant for staff to run the gauntlet, but far more so for vulnerable patients.
But probably not as unpleasant as for the baby that was about to get snuffed
Perfectly legal healthcare in GB. In Ireland too, and rightly so.
Whether you or I would want one is beside the point. It's for women to choose what to do with their bodies, not middle aged men.
At least we now know who’d be in favour of Islamists praying for divine conversion therapy outside gay clubs.
Well it is a free country, gay pride marches often go past churches and mosques
I don’t think the gay pride marchers are chanting that the occupants of those churches and mosques should turn away from their monotheism and take up buggery.
Socially conservative mosques and Roman Catholic, Orthodox churches and indeed Orthodox Jewish synagogues and conservative evangelical churches would certainly take offense at gay pride being pushed past their doors and trans marchers etc. They take the line those of same sex attraction should remain celibate and marriage reserved for heterosexual couples and sex is the gender you are born with
Are you seriously objecting to gay people openly walking down a street that happens to contain a fundamentalist church?
Seek urgent help
No as they are just a normal citizen then it is not a gay pride march
Amazing that these people's faith is so weak, flimsy that it can be threatened by a few people in fancy dress happening to walk near their church.
Also - stop harassing women going to abortion clinics, where the hell is your compassion? You want to protest abortion do it somewhere else for Christ's sake
'Amazing these women wanting an abortion are so weak willed about it they can be threatened by a few people silently praying nearby the clinic.'
Either you have free speech for gay pride marchers near places of worship which take a traditional view of sexuality and for those pro lifers silently praying near abortion clinics or you ban both
Only those in exclusion zones outside abortion clinics.
We really don't want that US practice of intimidating picketing of clinics here.
Ooh thats a tough one.
What if we go all BLM , take the knee, and say Babies Lives Matter ?
As long as it's not within an exclusion zone go right ahead.
Women deserve to be able to seek legal healthcare without intimidation.
When I worked in Chritchurch NZ there was a more or less permanent picket of evangelicals outside the abortion clinic. It was unpleasant for staff to run the gauntlet, but far more so for vulnerable patients.
But probably not as unpleasant as for the baby that was about to get snuffed
Perfectly legal healthcare in GB. In Ireland too, and rightly so.
Whether you or I would want one is beside the point. It's for women to choose what to do with their bodies, not middle aged men.
At least we now know who’d be in favour of Islamists praying for divine conversion therapy outside gay clubs.
Well it is a free country, gay pride marches often go past churches and mosques
I don’t think the gay pride marchers are chanting that the occupants of those churches and mosques should turn away from their monotheism and take up buggery.
Socially conservative mosques and Roman Catholic, Orthodox churches and indeed Orthodox Jewish synagogues and conservative evangelical churches would certainly take offense at gay pride being pushed past their doors and trans marchers etc. They take the line those of same sex attraction should remain celibate and marriage reserved for heterosexual couples and sex is the gender you are born with
Are you seriously objecting to gay people openly walking down a street that happens to contain a fundamentalist church?
Seek urgent help
No as they are just a normal citizen then it is not a gay pride march
Amazing that these people's faith is so weak, flimsy that it can be threatened by a few people in fancy dress happening to walk near their church.
Also - stop harassing women going to abortion clinics, where the hell is your compassion? You want to protest abortion do it somewhere else for Christ's sake
'Amazing these women wanting an abortion are so weak willed about it they can be threatened by a few people silently praying nearby the clinic.'
Either you have free speech for gay pride marchers near places of worship which take a traditional view of sexuality and for those pro lifers silently praying near abortion clinics or you ban both
Only those in exclusion zones outside abortion clinics.
We really don't want that US practice of intimidating picketing of clinics here.
Ooh thats a tough one.
What if we go all BLM , take the knee, and say Babies Lives Matter ?
As long as it's not within an exclusion zone go right ahead.
Women deserve to be able to seek legal healthcare without intimidation.
When I worked in Chritchurch NZ there was a more or less permanent picket of evangelicals outside the abortion clinic. It was unpleasant for staff to run the gauntlet, but far more so for vulnerable patients.
But probably not as unpleasant as for the baby that was about to get snuffed
Perfectly legal healthcare in GB. In Ireland too, and rightly so.
Whether you or I would want one is beside the point. It's for women to choose what to do with their bodies, not middle aged men.
At least we now know who’d be in favour of Islamists praying for divine conversion therapy outside gay clubs.
Well it is a free country, gay pride marches often go past churches and mosques
I don’t think the gay pride marchers are chanting that the occupants of those churches and mosques should turn away from their monotheism and take up buggery.
Socially conservative mosques and Roman Catholic, Orthodox churches and indeed Orthodox Jewish synagogues and conservative evangelical churches would certainly take offense at gay pride being pushed past their doors and trans marchers etc. They take the line those of same sex attraction should remain celibate and marriage reserved for heterosexual couples and sex is the gender you are born with
Are you seriously objecting to gay people openly walking down a street that happens to contain a fundamentalist church?
Seek urgent help
No as they are just a normal citizen then it is not a gay pride march
Amazing that these people's faith is so weak, flimsy that it can be threatened by a few people in fancy dress happening to walk near their church.
Also - stop harassing women going to abortion clinics, where the hell is your compassion? You want to protest abortion do it somewhere else for Christ's sake
'Amazing these women wanting an abortion are so weak willed about it they can be threatened by a few people silently praying nearby the clinic.'
Either you have free speech for gay pride marchers near places of worship which take a traditional view of sexuality and for those pro lifers silently praying near abortion clinics or you ban both
When do Pride marchers picket a Church? That never happens.
Walking past along a route != standing outside and picketing people who are getting healthcare.
I respect people with sincere principles even if I disagree with them. I could have respect for anti abortionists if they recognised women had painful choices while insisting on the principle. I have no respect when they are just vindictive. That is where the American anti abortion movement is at.
Only those in exclusion zones outside abortion clinics.
We really don't want that US practice of intimidating picketing of clinics here.
Ooh thats a tough one.
What if we go all BLM , take the knee, and say Babies Lives Matter ?
As long as it's not within an exclusion zone go right ahead.
Women deserve to be able to seek legal healthcare without intimidation.
When I worked in Chritchurch NZ there was a more or less permanent picket of evangelicals outside the abortion clinic. It was unpleasant for staff to run the gauntlet, but far more so for vulnerable patients.
But probably not as unpleasant as for the baby that was about to get snuffed
Perfectly legal healthcare in GB. In Ireland too, and rightly so.
Whether you or I would want one is beside the point. It's for women to choose what to do with their bodies, not middle aged men.
At least we now know who’d be in favour of Islamists praying for divine conversion therapy outside gay clubs.
Well it is a free country, gay pride marches often go past churches and mosques
I don’t think the gay pride marchers are chanting that the occupants of those churches and mosques should turn away from their monotheism and take up buggery.
Socially conservative mosques and Roman Catholic, Orthodox churches and indeed Orthodox Jewish synagogues and conservative evangelical churches would certainly take offense at gay pride being pushed past their doors and trans marchers etc. They take the line those of same sex attraction should remain celibate and marriage reserved for heterosexual couples and sex is the gender you are born with
Are you seriously objecting to gay people openly walking down a street that happens to contain a fundamentalist church?
Seek urgent help
No as they are just a normal citizen then it is not a gay pride march
Amazing that these people's faith is so weak, flimsy that it can be threatened by a few people in fancy dress happening to walk near their church.
Also - stop harassing women going to abortion clinics, where the hell is your compassion? You want to protest abortion do it somewhere else for Christ's sake
'Amazing these women wanting an abortion are so weak willed about it they can be threatened by a few people silently praying nearby the clinic.'
Either you have free speech for gay pride marchers near places of worship which take a traditional view of sexuality and for those pro lifers silently praying near abortion clinics or you ban both
Gay pride marches aren't standing outside churches in shifts silently mouthing the words to YMCA though are they.
Wrt female dominated professions. The role of Teaching Assistant to help SEN kids is specifically designed, by its hours, to attract only working mothers who need to pick their own kids up after school and look after them in the holidays. It's basically minimum wage around those conveniences. There is the odd single Dad. But it's 90-95% female. I don't think that helps the young people.
Only those in exclusion zones outside abortion clinics.
We really don't want that US practice of intimidating picketing of clinics here.
Ooh thats a tough one.
What if we go all BLM , take the knee, and say Babies Lives Matter ?
As long as it's not within an exclusion zone go right ahead.
Women deserve to be able to seek legal healthcare without intimidation.
When I worked in Chritchurch NZ there was a more or less permanent picket of evangelicals outside the abortion clinic. It was unpleasant for staff to run the gauntlet, but far more so for vulnerable patients.
But probably not as unpleasant as for the baby that was about to get snuffed
Perfectly legal healthcare in GB. In Ireland too, and rightly so.
Whether you or I would want one is beside the point. It's for women to choose what to do with their bodies, not middle aged men.
At least we now know who’d be in favour of Islamists praying for divine conversion therapy outside gay clubs.
Well it is a free country, gay pride marches often go past churches and mosques
I don’t think the gay pride marchers are chanting that the occupants of those churches and mosques should turn away from their monotheism and take up buggery.
Socially conservative mosques and Roman Catholic, Orthodox churches and indeed Orthodox Jewish synagogues and conservative evangelical churches would certainly take offense at gay pride being pushed past their doors and trans marchers etc. They take the line those of same sex attraction should remain celibate and marriage reserved for heterosexual couples and sex is the gender you are born with
Are you seriously objecting to gay people openly walking down a street that happens to contain a fundamentalist church?
Seek urgent help
No as they are just a normal citizen then it is not a gay pride march
Amazing that these people's faith is so weak, flimsy that it can be threatened by a few people in fancy dress happening to walk near their church.
Also - stop harassing women going to abortion clinics, where the hell is your compassion? You want to protest abortion do it somewhere else for Christ's sake
'Amazing these women wanting an abortion are so weak willed about it they can be threatened by a few people silently praying nearby the clinic.'
Either you have free speech for gay pride marchers near places of worship which take a traditional view of sexuality and for those pro lifers silently praying near abortion clinics or you ban both
Gay pride marches aren't standing outside churches in shifts silently mouthing the words to YMCA though are they.
Their arms and costumes would be a dead giveaway, mind.
Civil Rights leader Jesse Jackson once opposed abortion because he believed black lives, no matter how helpless, mattered. (And, in fact, many white racists did favor abortion -- for black babies.) At one time, about 30 percent of abortions were performed on black women. Oddly enough those numbers are no longer widely available, but it wouldn't surprise me if the percentage is still that high. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Jackson#Stance_on_abortion
(Why did Jackson change his position? Perhaps he was tempted because of his ambition to be a power in Democratic Party politics. Perhaps he changed his mind on this issue, though that seems less likely.
Only those in exclusion zones outside abortion clinics.
We really don't want that US practice of intimidating picketing of clinics here.
Ooh thats a tough one.
What if we go all BLM , take the knee, and say Babies Lives Matter ?
As long as it's not within an exclusion zone go right ahead.
Women deserve to be able to seek legal healthcare without intimidation.
When I worked in Chritchurch NZ there was a more or less permanent picket of evangelicals outside the abortion clinic. It was unpleasant for staff to run the gauntlet, but far more so for vulnerable patients.
But probably not as unpleasant as for the baby that was about to get snuffed
Perfectly legal healthcare in GB. In Ireland too, and rightly so.
Whether you or I would want one is beside the point. It's for women to choose what to do with their bodies, not middle aged men.
At least we now know who’d be in favour of Islamists praying for divine conversion therapy outside gay clubs.
Well it is a free country, gay pride marches often go past churches and mosques
I don’t think the gay pride marchers are chanting that the occupants of those churches and mosques should turn away from their monotheism and take up buggery.
Socially conservative mosques and Roman Catholic, Orthodox churches and indeed Orthodox Jewish synagogues and conservative evangelical churches would certainly take offense at gay pride being pushed past their doors and trans marchers etc. They take the line those of same sex attraction should remain celibate and marriage reserved for heterosexual couples and sex is the gender you are born with
Are you seriously objecting to gay people openly walking down a street that happens to contain a fundamentalist church?
Seek urgent help
No as they are just a normal citizen then it is not a gay pride march
Amazing that these people's faith is so weak, flimsy that it can be threatened by a few people in fancy dress happening to walk near their church.
Also - stop harassing women going to abortion clinics, where the hell is your compassion? You want to protest abortion do it somewhere else for Christ's sake
'Amazing these women wanting an abortion are so weak willed about it they can be threatened by a few people silently praying nearby the clinic.'
Either you have free speech for gay pride marchers near places of worship which take a traditional view of sexuality and for those pro lifers silently praying near abortion clinics or you ban both
Gay pride marches aren't standing outside churches in shifts silently mouthing the words to YMCA though are they.
But at least HYUFD is admitting that going to one of these fundamentalist churches is as traumatic as having an abortion
Only those in exclusion zones outside abortion clinics.
We really don't want that US practice of intimidating picketing of clinics here.
Ooh thats a tough one.
What if we go all BLM , take the knee, and say Babies Lives Matter ?
As long as it's not within an exclusion zone go right ahead.
Women deserve to be able to seek legal healthcare without intimidation.
When I worked in Chritchurch NZ there was a more or less permanent picket of evangelicals outside the abortion clinic. It was unpleasant for staff to run the gauntlet, but far more so for vulnerable patients.
But probably not as unpleasant as for the baby that was about to get snuffed
Perfectly legal healthcare in GB. In Ireland too, and rightly so.
Whether you or I would want one is beside the point. It's for women to choose what to do with their bodies, not middle aged men.
At least we now know who’d be in favour of Islamists praying for divine conversion therapy outside gay clubs.
Well it is a free country, gay pride marches often go past churches and mosques
I don’t think the gay pride marchers are chanting that the occupants of those churches and mosques should turn away from their monotheism and take up buggery.
Socially conservative mosques and Roman Catholic, Orthodox churches and indeed Orthodox Jewish synagogues and conservative evangelical churches would certainly take offense at gay pride being pushed past their doors and trans marchers etc. They take the line those of same sex attraction should remain celibate and marriage reserved for heterosexual couples and sex is the gender you are born with
Are you seriously objecting to gay people openly walking down a street that happens to contain a fundamentalist church?
Seek urgent help
No as they are just a normal citizen then it is not a gay pride march
Amazing that these people's faith is so weak, flimsy that it can be threatened by a few people in fancy dress happening to walk near their church.
Also - stop harassing women going to abortion clinics, where the hell is your compassion? You want to protest abortion do it somewhere else for Christ's sake
'Amazing these women wanting an abortion are so weak willed about it they can be threatened by a few people silently praying nearby the clinic.'
Either you have free speech for gay pride marchers near places of worship which take a traditional view of sexuality and for those pro lifers silently praying near abortion clinics or you ban both
Gay pride marches aren't standing outside churches in shifts silently mouthing the words to YMCA though are they.
Civil Rights leader Jesse Jackson once opposed abortion because he believed black lives, no matter how helpless, mattered. (And, in fact, many white racists did favor abortion -- for black babies.) At one time, about 30 percent of abortions were performed on black women. Oddly enough those numbers are no longer widely available, but it wouldn't surprise me if the percentage is still that high. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Jackson#Stance_on_abortion
(Why did Jackson change his position? Perhaps he was tempted because of his ambition to be a power in Democratic Party politics. Perhaps he changed his mind on this issue, though that seems less likely.
Perhaps he realised [black] women are better placed to make their own decisions over their own healthcare than [white] men are?
Only those in exclusion zones outside abortion clinics.
We really don't want that US practice of intimidating picketing of clinics here.
Ooh thats a tough one.
What if we go all BLM , take the knee, and say Babies Lives Matter ?
As long as it's not within an exclusion zone go right ahead.
Women deserve to be able to seek legal healthcare without intimidation.
When I worked in Chritchurch NZ there was a more or less permanent picket of evangelicals outside the abortion clinic. It was unpleasant for staff to run the gauntlet, but far more so for vulnerable patients.
But probably not as unpleasant as for the baby that was about to get snuffed
Perfectly legal healthcare in GB. In Ireland too, and rightly so.
Whether you or I would want one is beside the point. It's for women to choose what to do with their bodies, not middle aged men.
At least we now know who’d be in favour of Islamists praying for divine conversion therapy outside gay clubs.
Well it is a free country, gay pride marches often go past churches and mosques
I don’t think the gay pride marchers are chanting that the occupants of those churches and mosques should turn away from their monotheism and take up buggery.
Socially conservative mosques and Roman Catholic, Orthodox churches and indeed Orthodox Jewish synagogues and conservative evangelical churches would certainly take offense at gay pride being pushed past their doors and trans marchers etc. They take the line those of same sex attraction should remain celibate and marriage reserved for heterosexual couples and sex is the gender you are born with
Are you seriously objecting to gay people openly walking down a street that happens to contain a fundamentalist church?
Seek urgent help
No as they are just a normal citizen then it is not a gay pride march
Amazing that these people's faith is so weak, flimsy that it can be threatened by a few people in fancy dress happening to walk near their church.
Also - stop harassing women going to abortion clinics, where the hell is your compassion? You want to protest abortion do it somewhere else for Christ's sake
'Amazing these women wanting an abortion are so weak willed about it they can be threatened by a few people silently praying nearby the clinic.'
Either you have free speech for gay pride marchers near places of worship which take a traditional view of sexuality and for those pro lifers silently praying near abortion clinics or you ban both
When do Pride marchers picket a Church? That never happens.
Walking past along a route != standing outside and picketing people who are getting healthcare.
Walking past a church or mosque which takes a traditional view of sexuality proclaiming pride in homosexuality and trans would be offensive to the members of that place of worship, certainly at least as much as silent prayer by pro lifers would be offensive to women getting an abortion at a nearby clinic. Even if neither block entry to that place of worship or clinic and both the marchers and prayers are completely peaceful and non violent and not aggressive
Only those in exclusion zones outside abortion clinics.
We really don't want that US practice of intimidating picketing of clinics here.
Ooh thats a tough one.
What if we go all BLM , take the knee, and say Babies Lives Matter ?
As long as it's not within an exclusion zone go right ahead.
Women deserve to be able to seek legal healthcare without intimidation.
When I worked in Chritchurch NZ there was a more or less permanent picket of evangelicals outside the abortion clinic. It was unpleasant for staff to run the gauntlet, but far more so for vulnerable patients.
But probably not as unpleasant as for the baby that was about to get snuffed
Perfectly legal healthcare in GB. In Ireland too, and rightly so.
Whether you or I would want one is beside the point. It's for women to choose what to do with their bodies, not middle aged men.
At least we now know who’d be in favour of Islamists praying for divine conversion therapy outside gay clubs.
Well it is a free country, gay pride marches often go past churches and mosques
I don’t think the gay pride marchers are chanting that the occupants of those churches and mosques should turn away from their monotheism and take up buggery.
Socially conservative mosques and Roman Catholic, Orthodox churches and indeed Orthodox Jewish synagogues and conservative evangelical churches would certainly take offense at gay pride being pushed past their doors and trans marchers etc. They take the line those of same sex attraction should remain celibate and marriage reserved for heterosexual couples and sex is the gender you are born with
Are you seriously objecting to gay people openly walking down a street that happens to contain a fundamentalist church?
Seek urgent help
No as they are just a normal citizen then it is not a gay pride march
Amazing that these people's faith is so weak, flimsy that it can be threatened by a few people in fancy dress happening to walk near their church.
Also - stop harassing women going to abortion clinics, where the hell is your compassion? You want to protest abortion do it somewhere else for Christ's sake
'Amazing these women wanting an abortion are so weak willed about it they can be threatened by a few people silently praying nearby the clinic.'
Either you have free speech for gay pride marchers near places of worship which take a traditional view of sexuality and for those pro lifers silently praying near abortion clinics or you ban both
When do Pride marchers picket a Church? That never happens.
Walking past along a route != standing outside and picketing people who are getting healthcare.
Walking past a church or mosque which takes a traditional view of sexuality proclaiming pride in homosexuality and trans would be offensive to the members of that place of worship, certainly at least as much as silent prayer by pro lifers would be offensive to women getting an abortion at a nearby clinic. Even if neither block entry to that place or worship or clinic and both the marchers and prayers are completely peaceful and non violent and not aggressive
Walking past anything is not remotely as "offensive" as stopping outside it and picketing it.
If the people "praying" want to engage in a whole route and the clinic is a minor part of the route that they merely walk past along the route that might be comparable - but its not and you are utterly deranged to equate the two.
Only those in exclusion zones outside abortion clinics.
We really don't want that US practice of intimidating picketing of clinics here.
Ooh thats a tough one.
What if we go all BLM , take the knee, and say Babies Lives Matter ?
As long as it's not within an exclusion zone go right ahead.
Women deserve to be able to seek legal healthcare without intimidation.
When I worked in Chritchurch NZ there was a more or less permanent picket of evangelicals outside the abortion clinic. It was unpleasant for staff to run the gauntlet, but far more so for vulnerable patients.
But probably not as unpleasant as for the baby that was about to get snuffed
Perfectly legal healthcare in GB. In Ireland too, and rightly so.
Whether you or I would want one is beside the point. It's for women to choose what to do with their bodies, not middle aged men.
At least we now know who’d be in favour of Islamists praying for divine conversion therapy outside gay clubs.
Well it is a free country, gay pride marches often go past churches and mosques
I don’t think the gay pride marchers are chanting that the occupants of those churches and mosques should turn away from their monotheism and take up buggery.
Socially conservative mosques and Roman Catholic, Orthodox churches and indeed Orthodox Jewish synagogues and conservative evangelical churches would certainly take offense at gay pride being pushed past their doors and trans marchers etc. They take the line those of same sex attraction should remain celibate and marriage reserved for heterosexual couples and sex is the gender you are born with
Are you seriously objecting to gay people openly walking down a street that happens to contain a fundamentalist church?
Seek urgent help
No as they are just a normal citizen then it is not a gay pride march
Amazing that these people's faith is so weak, flimsy that it can be threatened by a few people in fancy dress happening to walk near their church.
Also - stop harassing women going to abortion clinics, where the hell is your compassion? You want to protest abortion do it somewhere else for Christ's sake
'Amazing these women wanting an abortion are so weak willed about it they can be threatened by a few people silently praying nearby the clinic.'
Either you have free speech for gay pride marchers near places of worship which take a traditional view of sexuality and for those pro lifers silently praying near abortion clinics or you ban both
When do Pride marchers picket a Church? That never happens.
Walking past along a route != standing outside and picketing people who are getting healthcare.
Walking past a church or mosque which takes a traditional view of sexuality proclaiming pride in homosexuality and trans would be offensive to the members of that place of worship, certainly at least as much as silent prayer by pro lifers would be offensive to women getting an abortion at a nearby clinic. Even if neither block entry to that place or worship or clinic and both the marchers and prayers are completely peaceful and non violent and not aggressive
Walking past anything is not remotely as "offensive" as stopping outside it and picketing it.
If the people "praying" want to engage in a whole route and the clinic is a minor part of the route that they merely walk past along the route that might be comparable - but its not and you are utterly deranged to equate the two.
An interesting question. What is meditation? The Buddhist definition is "single pointed concentration on a virtuous object." I've never managed to meditate in my life. Takes mens rea to a ludicrous extreme.
You get the feeling that somewhere in Moscow people are looking at a big table map and pushing around military formations that don't actually exist.
There appears to be a shocking lack of available reserves within Western Russia to push out what is now a proper invasion of two provinces. The Ukrainians are still moving forward with a mixture of advanced probing then rapid mechanized advance through gaps. It appears the Russians cant deal with the mobility and every time they try to put a holding line in, the Ukrainians have already gone round it.
Moscow is the obvious concentration of large scale forces on paper but either they are not really there or someone is worried about making sure they have protection close to home.
Only those in exclusion zones outside abortion clinics.
We really don't want that US practice of intimidating picketing of clinics here.
Ooh thats a tough one.
What if we go all BLM , take the knee, and say Babies Lives Matter ?
As long as it's not within an exclusion zone go right ahead.
Women deserve to be able to seek legal healthcare without intimidation.
When I worked in Chritchurch NZ there was a more or less permanent picket of evangelicals outside the abortion clinic. It was unpleasant for staff to run the gauntlet, but far more so for vulnerable patients.
But probably not as unpleasant as for the baby that was about to get snuffed
Perfectly legal healthcare in GB. In Ireland too, and rightly so.
Whether you or I would want one is beside the point. It's for women to choose what to do with their bodies, not middle aged men.
At least we now know who’d be in favour of Islamists praying for divine conversion therapy outside gay clubs.
Well it is a free country, gay pride marches often go past churches and mosques
I don’t think the gay pride marchers are chanting that the occupants of those churches and mosques should turn away from their monotheism and take up buggery.
Socially conservative mosques and Roman Catholic, Orthodox churches and indeed Orthodox Jewish synagogues and conservative evangelical churches would certainly take offense at gay pride being pushed past their doors and trans marchers etc. They take the line those of same sex attraction should remain celibate and marriage reserved for heterosexual couples and sex is the gender you are born with
Are you seriously objecting to gay people openly walking down a street that happens to contain a fundamentalist church?
Seek urgent help
No as they are just a normal citizen then it is not a gay pride march
Amazing that these people's faith is so weak, flimsy that it can be threatened by a few people in fancy dress happening to walk near their church.
Also - stop harassing women going to abortion clinics, where the hell is your compassion? You want to protest abortion do it somewhere else for Christ's sake
'Amazing these women wanting an abortion are so weak willed about it they can be threatened by a few people silently praying nearby the clinic.'
Either you have free speech for gay pride marchers near places of worship which take a traditional view of sexuality and for those pro lifers silently praying near abortion clinics or you ban both
Gay pride marches aren't standing outside churches in shifts silently mouthing the words to YMCA though are they.
Only those in exclusion zones outside abortion clinics.
We really don't want that US practice of intimidating picketing of clinics here.
Ooh thats a tough one.
What if we go all BLM , take the knee, and say Babies Lives Matter ?
As long as it's not within an exclusion zone go right ahead.
Women deserve to be able to seek legal healthcare without intimidation.
When I worked in Chritchurch NZ there was a more or less permanent picket of evangelicals outside the abortion clinic. It was unpleasant for staff to run the gauntlet, but far more so for vulnerable patients.
But probably not as unpleasant as for the baby that was about to get snuffed
Perfectly legal healthcare in GB. In Ireland too, and rightly so.
Whether you or I would want one is beside the point. It's for women to choose what to do with their bodies, not middle aged men.
At least we now know who’d be in favour of Islamists praying for divine conversion therapy outside gay clubs.
Well it is a free country, gay pride marches often go past churches and mosques
But they don't permanently picket them or atrempt to stop people worshipping in them.
(Many churches are very happy for gays to worship with them).
A prayer outside doesn't block women going into abortion clinics either
Seattle Times - USS Ronald Reagan aircraft carrier docks at Naval Base Kitsap
After nearly a decade deployed in the Indo-Pacific, the U.S. Navy aircraft carrier USS Ronald Reagan and its thousands of sailors returned to Bremerton’s Naval Base Kitsap on Tuesday.
The base will serve as the home port for the aircraft carrier as it undergoes routine maintenance. . . .
Before arriving in Bremerton [WA], the USS Ronald Reagan had been the Navy’s only aircraft carrier with a home port in a foreign country. The ship departed from Yokosuka, Japan, on May 16, where it had been deployed since 2015.
During its tenure, the aircraft carrier participated in dozens of multilateral exercises and visited more than a dozen foreign ports, including a historic port call in Da Nang, Vietnam, last year. . . .
Friends, family and loved ones greeted more than 2,500 sailors onboard the aircraft carrier. . . .
I went on the Nimitz back around 1975 when it visited the Firth of Forth. Never forgotten that visit. Too big to come into port so we just got a boat ride out there and I had a wander around for an hour or two. All one had to do was to get a ticket from the US Consulate.
Not sure if they'd do that today. Last time I was in Plymouth a US submarine was in dock with orange buoys all around and, presumably, guarded by US people with automatic rifles and LMGs on the territory of the UK.
Back at the beginning of her career, my wife was the Nimitz’s mascot 😊
Only those in exclusion zones outside abortion clinics.
We really don't want that US practice of intimidating picketing of clinics here.
Ooh thats a tough one.
What if we go all BLM , take the knee, and say Babies Lives Matter ?
As long as it's not within an exclusion zone go right ahead.
Women deserve to be able to seek legal healthcare without intimidation.
When I worked in Chritchurch NZ there was a more or less permanent picket of evangelicals outside the abortion clinic. It was unpleasant for staff to run the gauntlet, but far more so for vulnerable patients.
But probably not as unpleasant as for the baby that was about to get snuffed
Perfectly legal healthcare in GB. In Ireland too, and rightly so.
Whether you or I would want one is beside the point. It's for women to choose what to do with their bodies, not middle aged men.
At least we now know who’d be in favour of Islamists praying for divine conversion therapy outside gay clubs.
Well it is a free country, gay pride marches often go past churches and mosques
I don’t think the gay pride marchers are chanting that the occupants of those churches and mosques should turn away from their monotheism and take up buggery.
Socially conservative mosques and Roman Catholic, Orthodox churches and indeed Orthodox Jewish synagogues and conservative evangelical churches would certainly take offense at gay pride being pushed past their doors and trans marchers etc. They take the line those of same sex attraction should remain celibate and marriage reserved for heterosexual couples and sex is the gender you are born with
Are you seriously objecting to gay people openly walking down a street that happens to contain a fundamentalist church?
Seek urgent help
No as they are just a normal citizen then it is not a gay pride march
Amazing that these people's faith is so weak, flimsy that it can be threatened by a few people in fancy dress happening to walk near their church.
Also - stop harassing women going to abortion clinics, where the hell is your compassion? You want to protest abortion do it somewhere else for Christ's sake
'Amazing these women wanting an abortion are so weak willed about it they can be threatened by a few people silently praying nearby the clinic.'
Either you have free speech for gay pride marchers near places of worship which take a traditional view of sexuality and for those pro lifers silently praying near abortion clinics or you ban both
When do Pride marchers picket a Church? That never happens.
Walking past along a route != standing outside and picketing people who are getting healthcare.
Walking past a church or mosque which takes a traditional view of sexuality proclaiming pride in homosexuality and trans would be offensive to the members of that place of worship, certainly at least as much as silent prayer by pro lifers would be offensive to women getting an abortion at a nearby clinic. Even if neither block entry to that place or worship or clinic and both the marchers and prayers are completely peaceful and non violent and not aggressive
Walking past anything is not remotely as "offensive" as stopping outside it and picketing it.
If the people "praying" want to engage in a whole route and the clinic is a minor part of the route that they merely walk past along the route that might be comparable - but its not and you are utterly deranged to equate the two.
Silent prayer is not picketing
What about silent prayer while wearing a sandwich board? Not part of any liturgy I'm aware of.
(Tradecraft, my dear. When someone says "I was just doing X", they are almost never just doing X, and the problematic detail is in the bit that hasn't been said.)
This weird is really interesting me. It seems to have totally changed the narrative. Like bowling Shane Warne at a whole team brought up on facing West Indies quicks.
You and the Telegraph have got it the wrong way round. The proposal is to remove mention of "silent prayer" from the rules, not to add it. Otherwise people can picket abortion clinics and nothing can be done if they claim to be doing "silent prayer". So it would just be removing a loophole.
You and the Telegraph have got it the wrong way round. The proposal is to remove mention of "silent prayer" from the rules, not to add it. Otherwise people can picket abortion clinics and nothing can be done if they claim to be doing "silent prayer". So it would just be removing a loophole.
Tbh I'm surprised Just Stop Oil don't try the "silent prayer" loophole.
It's not a law against silent prayer. It's a law against doing it in places that are likely to intimidate vulnerable people.
It is a law designed to restrict peaceful, non violent pro life campaigners of faith for ideological reasons
If you want a peaceful, non-violent prayer in a Church you are more than welcome to do so. Nobody is saying otherwise.
Besides, as the Man Himself put it,
When you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men … but when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your father who is unseen.
It's not a law against silent prayer. It's a law against doing it in places that are likely to intimidate vulnerable people.
It is a law designed to restrict peaceful, non violent pro life campaigners of faith for ideological reasons
If you want a peaceful, non-violent prayer in a Church you are more than welcome to do so. Nobody is saying otherwise.
'If you want a peaceful, non violent gay pride event in a gay bar or club you are more than welcome to do so. Nobody is saying otherwise'
If you want to march down Regent Street praying then go ahead. Just don't stand outside an abortion clinic for hours on end doing it.
If non violent and not blocking entrance to the clinic it shouldn't be an issue anymore than gay pride marches past churches or mosques with traditional views of sexuality, marches which often see thousands of marches go past those churches or mosques for hours on end
It's not a law against silent prayer. It's a law against doing it in places that are likely to intimidate vulnerable people.
It is a law designed to restrict peaceful, non violent pro life campaigners of faith for ideological reasons
If you want a peaceful, non-violent prayer in a Church you are more than welcome to do so. Nobody is saying otherwise.
'If you want a peaceful, non violent gay pride event in a gay bar or club you are more than welcome to do so. Nobody is saying otherwise'
If you want to march down Regent Street praying then go ahead. Just don't stand outside an abortion clinic for hours on end doing it.
If non violent and not blocking entrance to the clinic it shouldn't be an issue anymore than gay pride marches past churches or mosques with traditional views of sexuality, marches which often see thousands of marches go past those churches or mosques for hours on end
Can you really not see the difference? Gay pride marches aren't walking past churches with the specific intention of trying to stop people from going in there. People who pray outside abortion clinics are specifically hoping that their presence will stop women going inside. Otherwise they wouldn't be there. If they genuinely just wanted to pray about it they would do it at home or in church
"Cross-party MPs will meet with the home secretary today to query the government's plans allowing protesters to engage in "silent prayer" and approach women with leaflets inside buffer zones around abortion clinics.
Despite MPs voting over a year ago to ban these activities, draft guidance released by the Home Office now appears to water down the laws, campaigners have said.
"Safe access zones" were meant to be introduced to create a 150m-wide area outside clinics to stop anti-abortion campaigners from handing out leaflets, holding vigils and showing graphic images to women near the sites.
But under draft guidance from the government for councils, police and abortion providers, it appears protesters would still be able to approach vulnerable women seeking treatment on their way into clinics.
Another exception also allows for "silent prayer" within the 150m protection zones.
Labour's Rupa Huq and Conservative Sir Bernard Jenkin - who originally tabled the amendment to the Public Order Act on the issue - are meeting with Home Secretary James Cleverly to discuss the guidance, Sky News understands.
The MPs believe the exceptions in the draft guidance would still amount to the harassment of women who are seeking abortions and that it could risk undermining the original law agreed by parliament."
It's not a law against silent prayer. It's a law against doing it in places that are likely to intimidate vulnerable people.
It is a law designed to restrict peaceful, non violent pro life campaigners of faith for ideological reasons
If you want a peaceful, non-violent prayer in a Church you are more than welcome to do so. Nobody is saying otherwise.
'If you want a peaceful, non violent gay pride event in a gay bar or club you are more than welcome to do so. Nobody is saying otherwise'
If you want to march down Regent Street praying then go ahead. Just don't stand outside an abortion clinic for hours on end doing it.
If non violent and not blocking entrance to the clinic it shouldn't be an issue anymore than gay pride marches past churches or mosques with traditional views of sexuality, marches which often see thousands of marches go past those churches or mosques for hours on end
What rot, name a Church anywhere in the country which sees marches going solely past that Church for hours on end.
It's not a law against silent prayer. It's a law against doing it in places that are likely to intimidate vulnerable people.
It is a law designed to restrict peaceful, non violent pro life campaigners of faith for ideological reasons
If you want a peaceful, non-violent prayer in a Church you are more than welcome to do so. Nobody is saying otherwise.
'If you want a peaceful, non violent gay pride event in a gay bar or club you are more than welcome to do so. Nobody is saying otherwise'
If you want to march down Regent Street praying then go ahead. Just don't stand outside an abortion clinic for hours on end doing it.
If non violent and not blocking entrance to the clinic it shouldn't be an issue anymore than gay pride marches past churches or mosques with traditional views of sexuality, marches which often see thousands of marches go past those churches or mosques for hours on end
Can you really not see the difference? Gay pride marches aren't walking past churches with the specific intention of trying to stop people from going in there. People who pray outside abortion clinics are specifically hoping that their presence will stop women going inside. Otherwise they wouldn't be there. If they genuinely just wanted to pray about it they would do it at home or in church
I would imagine most gay pride marchers would also hope to stop people going to conservative churches and mosques they march past which are anti same sex marriage and oppose gender reassignment too even if like silent prayer pro lifers they don't actually block people entering those places of worship or clinics
It's not a law against silent prayer. It's a law against doing it in places that are likely to intimidate vulnerable people.
It is a law designed to restrict peaceful, non violent pro life campaigners of faith for ideological reasons
If you want a peaceful, non-violent prayer in a Church you are more than welcome to do so. Nobody is saying otherwise.
'If you want a peaceful, non violent gay pride event in a gay bar or club you are more than welcome to do so. Nobody is saying otherwise'
If you want to march down Regent Street praying then go ahead. Just don't stand outside an abortion clinic for hours on end doing it.
If non violent and not blocking entrance to the clinic it shouldn't be an issue anymore than gay pride marches past churches or mosques with traditional views of sexuality, marches which often see thousands of marches go past those churches or mosques for hours on end
What rot, name a Church anywhere in the country which sees marches going solely past that Church for hours on end.
You are making shit up.
Gay pride marchers walk past conservative evangelical All Souls Langham Place for hours on end every Pride weekend for starters
It's not a law against silent prayer. It's a law against doing it in places that are likely to intimidate vulnerable people.
It is a law designed to restrict peaceful, non violent pro life campaigners of faith for ideological reasons
If you want a peaceful, non-violent prayer in a Church you are more than welcome to do so. Nobody is saying otherwise.
'If you want a peaceful, non violent gay pride event in a gay bar or club you are more than welcome to do so. Nobody is saying otherwise'
If you want to march down Regent Street praying then go ahead. Just don't stand outside an abortion clinic for hours on end doing it.
If non violent and not blocking entrance to the clinic it shouldn't be an issue anymore than gay pride marches past churches or mosques with traditional views of sexuality, marches which often see thousands of marches go past those churches or mosques for hours on end
Can you really not see the difference? Gay pride marches aren't walking past churches with the specific intention of trying to stop people from going in there. People who pray outside abortion clinics are specifically hoping that their presence will stop women going inside. Otherwise they wouldn't be there. If they genuinely just wanted to pray about it they would do it at home or in church
I would imagine most gay pride marchers would also hope to stop people going to conservative churches and mosques they march past which are anti same sex marriage and oppose gender reassignment too even if like silent prayer pro lifers they don't actually block people entering those places of worship or clinics
you've never actually seen a gay pride march have you. It's not like the orange lodge peeps in northern ireland and scotland
Incredible that these two once wrote a book together.
Rob Ford @robfordmancs · 5h Professor Haw-Haw suddenly very touchy about criticism of Hungary, a country he has suddenly started visiting and praising a lot…🤔
It's not a law against silent prayer. It's a law against doing it in places that are likely to intimidate vulnerable people.
It is a law designed to restrict peaceful, non violent pro life campaigners of faith for ideological reasons
If you want a peaceful, non-violent prayer in a Church you are more than welcome to do so. Nobody is saying otherwise.
'If you want a peaceful, non violent gay pride event in a gay bar or club you are more than welcome to do so. Nobody is saying otherwise'
If you want to march down Regent Street praying then go ahead. Just don't stand outside an abortion clinic for hours on end doing it.
If non violent and not blocking entrance to the clinic it shouldn't be an issue anymore than gay pride marches past churches or mosques with traditional views of sexuality, marches which often see thousands of marches go past those churches or mosques for hours on end
What rot, name a Church anywhere in the country which sees marches going solely past that Church for hours on end.
You are making shit up.
Gay pride marchers walk past conservative evangelical All Souls Langham Place for hours on end every Pride weekend for starters
Again walking past as it happens to be along the route != stopping outside and picketing outside it.
"Cross-party MPs will meet with the home secretary today to query the government's plans allowing protesters to engage in "silent prayer" and approach women with leaflets inside buffer zones around abortion clinics.
Despite MPs voting over a year ago to ban these activities, draft guidance released by the Home Office now appears to water down the laws, campaigners have said.
"Safe access zones" were meant to be introduced to create a 150m-wide area outside clinics to stop anti-abortion campaigners from handing out leaflets, holding vigils and showing graphic images to women near the sites.
But under draft guidance from the government for councils, police and abortion providers, it appears protesters would still be able to approach vulnerable women seeking treatment on their way into clinics.
Another exception also allows for "silent prayer" within the 150m protection zones.
Labour's Rupa Huq and Conservative Sir Bernard Jenkin - who originally tabled the amendment to the Public Order Act on the issue - are meeting with Home Secretary James Cleverly to discuss the guidance, Sky News understands.
The MPs believe the exceptions in the draft guidance would still amount to the harassment of women who are seeking abortions and that it could risk undermining the original law agreed by parliament."
So the last parliament passed a law making a 150m exclusion zone around abortion clinics to stop people being harrassed. The Home Office then produced guidelines which introduced an exemption fo "silent prayer".
The cross-party MPs have been complaining about this exemption for months.
MAGA types and other weirdos are pretending that the UK government is "banning silent prayer", in order to incite hatred.
Interesting comment under this Telegraph article. I don't know how accurate it is.
"I traced the “grossly offensive” offence in the Communications Act 2003 back via Hansard once. It was an offence grandfathered in from an old statute put on the books around the time telephone operators were a thing. The operators were usually women, and when the telephone was novel there was a spate of men calling the operator and ‘talking dirty’ to them. In discussing the Communications Bill, some Lord in the HoL basically said “oh, we should make sure that this offence is retained” and that was the extent of the Parliamentary debate on the topic. And that offence is now being used to lock people away for private message where no offence may have been intended or even caused in the recipient! It wasn’t Parliament’s intention to create an offence so wide ranging, but that’s the creeping nature of these things for you."
It's not a law against silent prayer. It's a law against doing it in places that are likely to intimidate vulnerable people.
It is a law designed to restrict peaceful, non violent pro life campaigners of faith for ideological reasons
If you want a peaceful, non-violent prayer in a Church you are more than welcome to do so. Nobody is saying otherwise.
'If you want a peaceful, non violent gay pride event in a gay bar or club you are more than welcome to do so. Nobody is saying otherwise'
If you want to march down Regent Street praying then go ahead. Just don't stand outside an abortion clinic for hours on end doing it.
If non violent and not blocking entrance to the clinic it shouldn't be an issue anymore than gay pride marches past churches or mosques with traditional views of sexuality, marches which often see thousands of marches go past those churches or mosques for hours on end
Can you really not see the difference? Gay pride marches aren't walking past churches with the specific intention of trying to stop people from going in there. People who pray outside abortion clinics are specifically hoping that their presence will stop women going inside. Otherwise they wouldn't be there. If they genuinely just wanted to pray about it they would do it at home or in church
I would imagine most gay pride marchers would also hope to stop people going to conservative churches and mosques they march past which are anti same sex marriage and oppose gender reassignment too even if like silent prayer pro lifers they don't actually block people entering those places of worship or clinics
Well I have matched in London Pride for many years and I can tell you that is not the case. It's function is to celebrate LGBTQ+ people not to annoy other people. This year I saw a group of about 5 people with signs telling us we were going to hell. Standing next to them was a group from a nearby church with signs saying "We are sorry about them, Jesus loves everyone".
Republicans against Trump @RpsAgainstTrump · 2h Republican pollster Frank Luntz: “There are people who had voted for Trump in 2020 that will not vote for him again because they are tired of his rude and abusive behavior. He is literally losing this election & I’m starting to wonder, does he want to lose?”
There can't be that many surely who voted for Trump in 2020 and then were amazed that he is a ghastly person? He had already been a tabloid fodder and a household name in America for more than thirty years by then, and active in politics for many years.
It's not a law against silent prayer. It's a law against doing it in places that are likely to intimidate vulnerable people.
It is a law designed to restrict peaceful, non violent pro life campaigners of faith for ideological reasons
If you want a peaceful, non-violent prayer in a Church you are more than welcome to do so. Nobody is saying otherwise.
'If you want a peaceful, non violent gay pride event in a gay bar or club you are more than welcome to do so. Nobody is saying otherwise'
If you want to march down Regent Street praying then go ahead. Just don't stand outside an abortion clinic for hours on end doing it.
If non violent and not blocking entrance to the clinic it shouldn't be an issue anymore than gay pride marches past churches or mosques with traditional views of sexuality, marches which often see thousands of marches go past those churches or mosques for hours on end
What rot, name a Church anywhere in the country which sees marches going solely past that Church for hours on end.
You are making shit up.
Gay pride marchers walk past conservative evangelical All Souls Langham Place for hours on end every Pride weekend for starters
I thought you right- wingers believed in free speech and being allowed to go about your business unhindered by dictatorial figures of authority. Hence your going on about restrictions for public prayer. And I believe you may have the wrong end of the stick anyway.
It strikes me that stuff the free- speech right like is the stuff that authority shouldn't interfere with, yet they are quite content for stuff they don't like to be nipped in the bud.
In contrast, Barack Obama's adopted state, Illinois has floundered: "The indispensable Illinois Policy Institute, a think tank, documents that although Illinois spends almost $24,000 per pupil (up 97 percent since 2007), only 35 percent of pupils read at grade level (1.2 million do not) and only 27 percent are proficient in math (1.4 million are not). In Decatur, 7 percent can read at grade level; in Peoria, 15 percent. In 67 schools, no child recently tested proficient in math; in 37, none were proficient in reading. Yet officials celebrate the state’s high (87.6 percent) graduation rate. The online publication Wirepoints reports that school administrators (18 superintendents made more than $300,000 in 2022) have increased 70 percent since 1998 while enrollments have declined about 100,000. No wonder Illinois ranks 40th among the states in social mobility measured by the likelihood of earning more than the previous generation." source$: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2024/08/14/democratic-convention-illinois-struggles/
(Illinois, by the way, is bankrupt in spite of high taxes, mostly because of the number of public employees, their high pay, and their astonishing pensions. And, of course, a fair amount of graft.)
Some, of course, are so emotionally committed to their hatred for Bush that they will ignore, or deny, those achievements.
Republicans against Trump @RpsAgainstTrump · 2h Republican pollster Frank Luntz: “There are people who had voted for Trump in 2020 that will not vote for him again because they are tired of his rude and abusive behavior. He is literally losing this election & I’m starting to wonder, does he want to lose?”
There can't be that many surely who voted for Trump in 2020 and then were amazed that he is a ghastly person? He had already been a tabloid fodder and a household name in America for more than thirty years by then, and active in politics for many years.
I can see how you could go from voting Trump to not so doing.
I think a lot of people want a change of direction in America. But god, Trump’s self-obsessive, grievance shtick is getting old.
A lot of people voted Trump is spite of him being a horrid person. This time you wonder if some are fed up of holding their noses.
Dave Leip's US prediction map has flipped to the Democrats. I know there aren't many people voting on this page, but it's the original prediction page from the year 2000 IIRC and it's usually pretty accurate.
Comments
An American friend was visiting and I answered his phone when his mother rang and she was all
"ooh I love your accent where are you from?"
"England"
"where did you learn to speak English?"
"Um, England"
"What language do people speak in England?"
"Err, English"
(Many churches are very happy for gays to worship with them).
The full Telegraph article is here:
https://archive.ph/eVPLd
I'd describe it as styling of a silent protest as "silent prayer" to try and manipulate human rights law - and the T is driving a wedge.
They won't be banning "silent prayer", they'll be banning assemblies and gatherings.
It's very notable - unless I have misread something - that even the previous Conservative Govt had been moving in this direction.
Under the Tories, the Home Office consultation ended in January. Finalised guidance was expected in the spring, but was not published before July’s election.
It could still be done via PSPO, though - even though PSPOs are inherently almost designed to be abused.
Rob Ford
@robfordmancs
·
5h
Professor Haw-Haw suddenly very touchy about criticism of Hungary, a country he has suddenly started visiting and praising a lot…🤔
https://x.com/robfordmancs/status/1824118250101186681
We did the same for sections of scoring that indirectly favoured the privately educated too.
'Aborting' at 35 weeks makes no sense. Simply delivery the baby via C-Section and put into paediatric care.
Prior to viability it remains the mother's right to choose what to do. Which is late enough to cover 99%+ of cases.
The song was never released but became a Stones’ song later
If you don’t know, guess which Beatle defected
https://x.com/XBusiness/status/1819392493781172403?t=0yXCmpqRs6G69FvByWgaNg
Seek urgent help
https://www.thedailybeast.com/even-the-kremlins-paid-liars-are-begging-putin-to-end-the-lies
Suzda is still pumping gas through the pipeline to Hungary, Slovakia and Austria, about 15% of Russian gas exports to Europe. The deal for Ukraine to permit this pipeline runs out fairly soon, and currently Ukraine gets a small tariff for allowing the gas through.
They could of course simply destroy the pipeline in Ukraine, but much better for Russia to destroy the pipeline in Kursk, thereby reducing supply to those countries, in one of its characteristically heavy handed bombardment. It would mean Putin cutting off his own finances and the gas of his European allies
Related :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nROK4cjQVXM
John Finnemore's Souvenir Programme. Fahrenheit v Celsius
And it became quite a famous Stones song
This quiz might require googling
I also see the official victimisation rates for murder etc are higher in Hungary than the UK.
Though his rival Fahrenheit insisted he was actually a little over 107.
Also - stop harassing women going to abortion clinics, where the hell is your compassion? You want to protest abortion do it somewhere else for Christ's sake
Only mention it because that's the first European Cup Final I remember seeing on TV.
How the mighty have fallen!
Either you have free speech for gay pride marchers near places of worship which take a traditional view of sexuality and for those pro lifers silently praying near abortion clinics or you ban both
Walking past along a route != standing outside and picketing people who are getting healthcare.
The role of Teaching Assistant to help SEN kids is specifically designed, by its hours, to attract only working mothers who need to pick their own kids up after school and look after them in the holidays.
It's basically minimum wage around those conveniences. There is the odd single Dad. But it's 90-95% female.
I don't think that helps the young people.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Jackson#Stance_on_abortion
(Why did Jackson change his position? Perhaps he was tempted because of his ambition to be a power in Democratic Party politics. Perhaps he changed his mind on this issue, though that seems less likely.
I'd love to see that!
If the people "praying" want to engage in a whole route and the clinic is a minor part of the route that they merely walk past along the route that might be comparable - but its not and you are utterly deranged to equate the two.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/08/15/home-office-review-ban-silent-prayer-abortion-clinics/
What is meditation?
The Buddhist definition is "single pointed concentration on a virtuous object."
I've never managed to meditate in my life.
Takes mens rea to a ludicrous extreme.
There appears to be a shocking lack of available reserves within Western Russia to push out what is now a proper invasion of two provinces. The Ukrainians are still moving forward with a mixture of advanced probing then rapid mechanized advance through gaps. It appears the Russians cant deal with the mobility and every time they try to put a holding line in, the Ukrainians have already gone round it.
Moscow is the obvious concentration of large scale forces on paper but either they are not really there or someone is worried about making sure they have protection close to home.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-dorset-67731454
(Tradecraft, my dear. When someone says "I was just doing X", they are almost never just doing X, and the problematic detail is in the bit that hasn't been said.)
Like bowling Shane Warne at a whole team brought up on facing West Indies quicks.
https://thenevadaindependent.com/article/harris-unveils-policy-proposals-to-address-affordable-housing-crisis
When you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men … but when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your father who is unseen.
Read this from February this year for example:
https://news.sky.com/story/mps-fear-watering-down-of-buffer-zone-rules-at-abortion-clinics-13060906
"Cross-party MPs will meet with the home secretary today to query the government's plans allowing protesters to engage in "silent prayer" and approach women with leaflets inside buffer zones around abortion clinics.
Despite MPs voting over a year ago to ban these activities, draft guidance released by the Home Office now appears to water down the laws, campaigners have said.
"Safe access zones" were meant to be introduced to create a 150m-wide area outside clinics to stop anti-abortion campaigners from handing out leaflets, holding vigils and showing graphic images to women near the sites.
But under draft guidance from the government for councils, police and abortion providers, it appears protesters would still be able to approach vulnerable women seeking treatment on their way into clinics.
Another exception also allows for "silent prayer" within the 150m protection zones.
Labour's Rupa Huq and Conservative Sir Bernard Jenkin - who originally tabled the amendment to the Public Order Act on the issue - are meeting with Home Secretary James Cleverly to discuss the guidance, Sky News understands.
The MPs believe the exceptions in the draft guidance would still amount to the harassment of women who are seeking abortions and that it could risk undermining the original law agreed by parliament."
You are making shit up.
The cross-party MPs have been complaining about this exemption for months.
MAGA types and other weirdos are pretending that the UK government is "banning silent prayer", in order to incite hatred.
"I traced the “grossly offensive” offence in the Communications Act 2003 back via Hansard once. It was an offence grandfathered in from an old statute put on the books around the time telephone operators were a thing. The operators were usually women, and when the telephone was novel there was a spate of men calling the operator and ‘talking dirty’ to them.
In discussing the Communications Bill, some Lord in the HoL basically said “oh, we should make sure that this offence is retained” and that was the extent of the Parliamentary debate on the topic.
And that offence is now being used to lock people away for private message where no offence may have been intended or even caused in the recipient! It wasn’t Parliament’s intention to create an offence so wide ranging, but that’s the creeping nature of these things for you."
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/08/15/we-can-no-longer-say-that-britain-is-a-free-country/
It strikes me that stuff the free- speech right like is the stuff that authority shouldn't interfere with, yet they are quite content for stuff they don't like to be nipped in the bud.
In contrast, Barack Obama's adopted state, Illinois has floundered: "The indispensable Illinois Policy Institute, a think tank, documents that although Illinois spends almost $24,000 per pupil (up 97 percent since 2007), only 35 percent of pupils read at grade level (1.2 million do not) and only 27 percent are proficient in math (1.4 million are not). In Decatur, 7 percent can read at grade level; in Peoria, 15 percent. In 67 schools, no child recently tested proficient in math; in 37, none were proficient in reading. Yet officials celebrate the state’s high (87.6 percent) graduation rate. The online publication Wirepoints reports that school administrators (18 superintendents made more than $300,000 in 2022) have increased 70 percent since 1998 while enrollments have declined about 100,000. No wonder Illinois ranks 40th among the states in social mobility measured by the likelihood of earning more than the previous generation."
source$: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2024/08/14/democratic-convention-illinois-struggles/
(Illinois, by the way, is bankrupt in spite of high taxes, mostly because of the number of public employees, their high pay, and their astonishing pensions. And, of course, a fair amount of graft.)
Some, of course, are so emotionally committed to their hatred for Bush that they will ignore, or deny, those achievements.
I think a lot of people want a change of direction in America. But god, Trump’s self-obsessive, grievance shtick is getting old.
A lot of people voted Trump is spite of him being a horrid person. This time you wonder if some are fed up of holding their noses.
https://uselectionatlas.org/PRED/PRESIDENT/2024/pred.php