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Can you spot the trend? – politicalbetting.com

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  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,970
    WillG said:

    And of course Sarah Champion was marginalized from Labour leadership consideration based on her truth telling here.
    Yes. Her career was crushed and she was told to STFU
  • Paediatricians should be assessing their security.
    That was a terrifying time if your father was a paediatric consultant.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,334
    HYUFD said:

    A true North American Tory would have moved to what became Canada after the US War of Independence and retained the King as their head of state!
    I imagine some few did. But mostly the war of Independence would have washed over the populace. The disagreements were after all slight. (Just happen to be reading about this, so feel some small confidence in pontificating)
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366

    I see you're in the Jews were responsible for Kristallnacht phase.
    That is horseshit. I have never blamed the victims of riots. I was clearly criticizing the authorities.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,108
    WillG said:

    No, that isn't what happened. We decided to let in Ukrainian and Hong Kong asylum seekers and we reduced the restrictions on skilled worker visas. But all immigration law is now under HMG control, relaxations can be reversed and new controls have been put in place. Which is what Sunak has now done.
    I don't know if you saw the news a few weeks back, but we had an election and Sunak lost...
  • WillG said:

    That is horseshit. I have never blamed the victims of riots. I was clearly criticizing the authorities.
    Of course you were.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,202

    I don't know if you saw the news a few weeks back, but we had an election and Sunak lost...
    Yes, Starmer won on a nationalist ticket of plastering the Union Jack everywhere, cutting immigration and deporting people to Bangladesh.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,347
    Leon said:

    Because I don’t have an issue with Polish plumbers. Never did
    But many Leave voters did, is what you're saying.

    And you're also saying that due to being thick as bricks they thought Brexit meant less immigration from Africa and Asia.

    I think there's much truth in that. Still, done now. No point re-litigating.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,970
    WillG said:

    1,400 girls were raped in and around of one town of 70,000. And yet you think it's plausible that that town represented 1/7th of all street grooming victims by such gangs. Even though we have had confirmed gangs of such type in two dozen towns, and that's just the ones we know about.
    Yes. Its absolutely brain dead and no one buys this lying bullshit anymore. The fact is - as Sarah champion said - wherever they looked for this grooming they found it. And it went on over decades all over the country. “Tens of thousands” is a conservative estimate

    Eg 1000 in Telford alone

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telford_child_sexual_exploitation_scandal
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366

    Of course you were.
    This reminds of the slur campaign against Andrew Norfolk when he was reporting on the cover up of grooming gangs. You have an ideology you want to push, you can't refute my points, and so you throw Nazi accusations out. There is not a single quote of mine where I attacked the victims of this violence. The only criticisms I have made on this topic have been of the authorities, the media's refusal to cover properly, and some of the idiots on this forum.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617

    That was a terrifying time if your father was a paediatric consultant.
    Liked in commiseration ...
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    Leon said:

    Yes. Its absolutely brain dead and no one buys this lying bullshit anymore. The fact is - as Sarah champion said - wherever they looked for this grooming they found it. And it went on over decades all over the country. “Tens of thousands” is a conservative estimate

    Eg 1000 in Telford alone

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telford_child_sexual_exploitation_scandal
    Be careful, you will be accused of engaging in medieval pogroms in a minute.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,970

    Purge them all; God will know his own.
    I was hoping someone would spot the reference! I’m on an Albigensian crusade against vanilla glitches
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,138
    @MrBrendanCox

    The scenes in Rotherham aren’t a protest, they aren’t even a far right riot, they are an ongoing attempt to murder the men, women & children inside by burning them alive.

    The stench of these days will hang around those who incited and justified it for the rest of their lives.






    And the keyboard warriors who cheered them on...
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366

    I don't know if you saw the news a few weeks back, but we had an election and Sunak lost...
    Yes, and the way law and policy works is that stuff remains in place until government changes it. If that happens, the voters can kick out Starmer next election.
  • Dura_Ace said:

    Watching fucking thick chavs and cops beat the shit out of each is great. It's the same sort of relaxed vibe you get from watching a good football match where you really don't care who wins or loses.

    Best take tbh.

    Like the 2011 riots this might well be symptomatic of something or other, but really to most of the participants (and spectators) it's just a chance for a ruck. The weather's hot.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,108
    WillG said:

    1,400 girls were raped in and around of one town of 70,000. And yet you think it's plausible that that town represented 1/7th of all street grooming victims by such gangs. Even though we have had confirmed gangs of such type in two dozen towns, and that's just the ones we know about.
    Tragically, we don't know how many victims there were in Rotherham. 1400 was the Jay report's estimate; other estimates have been lower and others, sadly, have been even higher (the NCA estimated 2000). The scale of what happened in Rotherham appears to have been an outlier, much higher than elsewhere. There is no reason to presume that one can just scale up what happened in Rotherham to the rest of the country.

    There are significant problems with child sexual exploitation. The government's own report found that most grooming gangs are white, while also noting problems with poor quality data. You are just posting Tommy Robinson propaganda. Your behaviour does nothing to help those at risk of grooming.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,504
    Scott_xP said:

    Violent racists setting fire to a hotel with people in it are not "the working class"

    How many of them actually work?

    It’s a bit like PJ O’Rourkes comment on the Iraqi Republican Guard - “How do we know if any of them are still Republicans?”
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,970

    Best take tbh.

    Like the 2011 riots this might well be symptomatic of something or other, but really to most of the participants (and spectators) it's just a chance for a ruck. The weather's hot.
    Except when you start burning down buildings then people die. Didn’t that happen in 2011? IIRC
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 4,339

    How many of them actually work?

    It’s a bit like PJ O’Rourkes comment on the Iraqi Republican Guard - “How do we know if any of them are still Republicans?”
    I suspect the immigrants are economically more productive and better skilled than the wwc morons and reform supporters rampaging through the streets. I know who I would like to kick out of the country.
  • Leon said:

    Except when you start burning down buildings then people die. Didn’t that happen in 2011? IIRC
    Wrong, there were plenty of buildings set on fire, such as this one.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/apr/11/looter-jailed-croydon-fire-riots
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,504

    That’s irrelevant. Thickos in search of a rammy don’t need the truth.
    You are mistaken. We like in Post Truth World.

    This is where mere facts can be Wrong. What I Feelz is The Truth.

    Imposing mere facts on people is Aggression Against Their Feelings.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,712
    ((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    1m
    People are currently attempting to burn down a hotel housing migrants. This is not a “protest”. It’s racist thuggery on a par with what we saw in Nazi Germany in the 1930’s. We need unequivocal condemnation and forceful police intervention on a commensurate scale.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,334

    Wrong, there were plenty of buildings set on fire, such as this one.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/apr/11/looter-jailed-croydon-fire-riots
    I think that counts as home improvement in Croydon.
  • RandallFlaggRandallFlagg Posts: 1,378
    edited August 2024
    Muslims and immigrants fair game for lynching apparently...

    Connor Tomlinson
    @Con_Tomlinson
    Even this conciliatory statement by Donna Jones misreads the public mood

    It is not a matter of illegal or "irregular" migration

    Both the Southport stabber and the subsequent Islamic settlements targeted by the riots were imported legally into Britain

    Rubber-stamping citizenship, as Starmer and Rayner have promised to do, will not stop the indigenous population from feeling culturally displaced from their homeland

    A houseguest is not entitled to rearrange the furniture against the wishes of the homeowners

    The Southport murders, though not an Islsmic terror attack (as far as we all know), have become a lightning rod for public discontent about Islam and immigration more broadly for this exact reason

    Mass immigration of all kinds must end

    Foreign criminals must be deported

    Islam must not be appeased by laws which privilege the feelings of Muslims over the rights of an Englishman to freely speak his mind
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,347
    WillG said:

    Be careful, you will be accused of engaging in medieval pogroms in a minute.
    Leon is only a hardcore islamophobe not the devil.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,712
    Nick Lowles
    @lowles_nick
    ·
    33m
    These protesters know that there are people inside the hotel. This is nothing less than attempted murder…
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,714
    edited August 2024
    Right-wing commentators in the press and elsewhere, and politicians, including several from Conservatives and Reform, spend years demonising and 'othering' asylum seekers as a threat to our way of life.

    Right-wing thugs respond to this incitement by attacking asylum seekers, or indeed anybody with a skin colour that they interpret could constitute that of an asylum seeker.

    It's not difficult, and is fuck all to do with grooming gangs, which is a separate story unless you're mendacious enough to conflate the two.
  • Nick Lowles
    @lowles_nick
    ·
    33m
    These protesters know that there are people inside the hotel. This is nothing less than attempted murder…

    This isn't taking that far from the Battle of Orgreave.
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366

    I live next door to Rotherham, a lot has gone on since the Jay Report came out, the town was healing. The people have had four opportunities to send a message to the authorities since the Jay report, most recently when the Tories ballsed things up, they've rejected the language of hatred of Farage and others.

    Racist scum have whipped up a nasty atmosphere.

    You seem intent on giving them an excuse.

    When was the last time you visited Rotherham?
    Haven't been in Rotherham for a while, but I have good friends in Doncaster and Barnsley who I speak to regularly. What is the "lot has gone on", exactly? Because the patchy coverage we manage to get shows it's not really happening elsewhere.

    For example, in Rochdale, a similar town an hour away, grooming is 'categorically' still happening.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12963855/amp/Rochdale-grooming-gangs-report-officials-failed-prioritise-children-didnt-act-evidence.html

    Or nation-wide, police still blame young girls for being groomed by gangs. Oh, and nobody is bothering to improve the data to find out an accurate view of grooming gangs. Almost like they don't want an accurate view to be known publicly.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/dec/08/police-still-victim-blaming-child-grooming-gang-cases-watchdog-finds-inspection-england-and-wales


  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,714
    edited August 2024

    ((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    1m
    People are currently attempting to burn down a hotel housing migrants. This is not a “protest”. It’s racist thuggery on a par with what we saw in Nazi Germany in the 1930’s. We need unequivocal condemnation and forceful police intervention on a commensurate scale.

    Remarkably, I agree with Dan.
  • kinabalu said:

    Leon is only a hardcore islamophobe not the devil.
    I am seriously thinking of standing down from PB as Sean's Islamophobic/anti immigrant bullshit is wearing me down.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,712


    Nick Lowles
    @lowles_nick
    ·
    5m
    Now trouble breaking out in Middlesbrough. Far right mob are fighting with police
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,970

    Wrong, there were plenty of buildings set on fire, such as this one.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/apr/11/looter-jailed-croydon-fire-riots
    No, wrong; there was a death in Ealing. Fire related

    “Tragedy struck as one resident, Richard Mannington Bowes, was killed by a blow to his head as he was putting a fire out in a bin.”

    https://www.ealingtimes.co.uk/news/14607525.i-just-got-out-of-there-it-was-so-scary-ealing-five-years-on-from-the-london-riots/
  • WillG said:

    Haven't been in Rotherham for a while, but I have good friends in Doncaster and Barnsley who I speak to regularly. What is the "lot has gone on", exactly? Because the patchy coverage we manage to get shows it's not really happening elsewhere.

    For example, in Rochdale, a similar town an hour away, grooming is 'categorically' still happening.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12963855/amp/Rochdale-grooming-gangs-report-officials-failed-prioritise-children-didnt-act-evidence.html

    Or nation-wide, police still blame young girls for being groomed by gangs. Oh, and nobody is bothering to improve the data to find out an accurate view of grooming gangs. Almost like they don't want an accurate view to be known publicly.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/dec/08/police-still-victim-blaming-child-grooming-gang-cases-watchdog-finds-inspection-england-and-wales


    These 'friends' you should speak to them in more detail.

    So you've not been in Rotherham for a while, so stop talking about that which you know not.
  • glwglw Posts: 10,255
    Some weird England flag with Anarchist symbols on it in Rotherham, an unusual combination. Frankly just looking at the mix of people rioting it doesn't look vastly different from previous summer riots, seems to be that any excuse for violence and looting will do.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,504
    Omnium said:

    I think that counts as home improvement in Croydon.
    You are aware that there are flats above such shops in London? Arson to such shops carries a high risk of trapping people in a burning flat.

    Just like setting fire to a hotel.

    Only murderous scum do things like that.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,771
    Civilised off topic.

    Submarines by Perun.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPd_AL004mE
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,051
    Andy_JS said:

    The BBC shouldn't be trying to alter their archives imo. They can't pretend that Edwards wasn't presenting the news nearly every day for about 15 years or whatever it was.

    It's absurd. I occasionally like to rewatch the King's coronation. Are the BBC now saying I can never do that again?

    They're doing it out of a pathetic weakness; a fear they'll be seen as protecting nonces and one of their own, with hysterical hyperbolic criticism to go with it, so are simply wiping the tapes "just in case".

    It's pathetic.
  • RandallFlaggRandallFlagg Posts: 1,378

    Remarkably, I agree with Dan.
    More sense from Dan

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    6h
    There's no political justification for the disorder we've seen. But if people want to get into the blame game, these are the facts. The Tories were in power for 14 years. Labour have been in power for 4 weeks. Blaming Keir Starmer and Yvette Cooper for this is just ridiculous.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,347
    Scott_xP said:

    Violent racists setting fire to a hotel with people in it are not "the working class"

    The rancid right have a peculiar trick of simultaneously demonising and romanticising the "white working class".
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366

    Tragically, we don't know how many victims there were in Rotherham. 1400 was the Jay report's estimate; other estimates have been lower and others, sadly, have been even higher (the NCA estimated 2000). The scale of what happened in Rotherham appears to have been an outlier, much higher than elsewhere. There is no reason to presume that one can just scale up what happened in Rotherham to the rest of the country.

    There are significant problems with child sexual exploitation. The government's own report found that most grooming gangs are white, while also noting problems with poor quality data. You are just posting Tommy Robinson propaganda. Your behaviour does nothing to help those at risk of grooming.
    Appears to be an outlier, based on what, exactly? Your desire to obscure what is happening? Because here is the Muslim owned publication Al-Jazeera saying Rotherham is "not an anomaly".

    https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/opinions/2024/2/23/the-uks-grooming-gangs-and-the-lessons-never-learned

    And as Leon has linked, there were a thousand victims in Telford. Oh, and you repeat the deliberately misleading crap about "most abusers were white". Even ignoring the fact that 80% of the population are white, these numbers deliberately conflated all types of child grooming so as to obscure the reality and demographic involved in street grooming.

    Just like the attacks on Andrew Norfolk, this is a case of people launching verbal slurs on those drawing attention to an outrageous scandal and cover-up, because the facts are inconvenient to your view of reality.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,051

    Reeves has had a dreadful start imho.

    The trouble is no-one believes her lies. And she's actually given a platform for Jeremy Hunt, a decent man, to take the moral high ground.

    Less than one month in and it's already very clear: this Labour government is not going to be a happy one.
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366

    Oh, please don't do that. It's your site. Ban him for a while if you've had enough. He's use to it and can amuse himself in France.
    Ah yes, the classic preference of the cultural left. Deal with arguments you can't logically defeat by censorship.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,888

    You are aware that there are flats above such shops in London? Arson to such shops carries a high risk of trapping people in a burning flat.

    Just like setting fire to a hotel.

    Only murderous scum do things like that.
    "On the night of 28–29 May 1993, four young German men (ages 16–23) belonging to the far right skinhead scene, with neo-Nazi ties, set fire to the house of a large Turkish family in Solingen in North Rhine-Westphalia, Germany. Three girls and two women died; fourteen other family members, including several children, were injured, some of them severely. "

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_Solingen_arson_attack
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,334

    You are aware that there are flats above such shops in London? Arson to such shops carries a high risk of trapping people in a burning flat.

    Just like setting fire to a hotel.

    Only murderous scum do things like that.
    Obviously.
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366

    These 'friends' you should speak to them in more detail.

    So you've not been in Rotherham for a while, so stop talking about that which you know not.
    I am always happy to talk to people and find out information I do not know. Unlike some on here, I am not afraid to hear new arguments and evidence and debate it head on.

    So what is the "lot that has gone on" in Rotherham, that contravenes the facts I have put forward?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,504

    "On the night of 28–29 May 1993, four young German men (ages 16–23) belonging to the far right skinhead scene, with neo-Nazi ties, set fire to the house of a large Turkish family in Solingen in North Rhine-Westphalia, Germany. Three girls and two women died; fourteen other family members, including several children, were injured, some of them severely. "

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_Solingen_arson_attack

    "On the night of 28–29 May 1993, four young German men (ages 16–23) belonging to the far right skinhead scene, with neo-Nazi ties, set fire to the house of a large Turkish family in Solingen in North Rhine-Westphalia, Germany. Three girls and two women died; fourteen other family members, including several children, were injured, some of them severely. "

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_Solingen_arson_attack
    Exactly. Further, in that case, IIRC, at the trial, evidence was given that the fire was set to trap those in the building, deliberately
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,712
    edited August 2024
    WillG said:

    Ah yes, the classic preference of the cultural left. Deal with arguments you can't logically defeat by censorship.
    It's a political betting blog not GB News.

    And it has always been Mike's site and his rules and now TSE's.

    Edit: And you also 'liked' my original post! Eh?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,888
    edited August 2024

    Exactly. Further, in that case, IIRC, at the trial, evidence was given that the fire was set to trap those in the building, deliberately
    The event is still well-remembered in the Turkish diaspora.

    Incidentally, the only time I have seen overt racism towards Mrs J was our first night on a trip to Germany.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,429

    I am seriously thinking of standing down from PB as Sean's Islamophobic/anti immigrant bullshit is wearing me down.
    Just Sean? I come here for civilised discussion. There’s not much of that just now.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,138
    @gabrielmilland

    A hotel is on fire. With people in it. And a Shadow Cabinet member says this?


    Lord Davies of Gower
    @Byron_Davies
    But Labour blocked the Rwanda Bill 130+ times, of course it’s politically justified!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617

    It's absurd. I occasionally like to rewatch the King's coronation. Are the BBC now saying I can never do that again?

    They're doing it out of a pathetic weakness; a fear they'll be seen as protecting nonces and one of their own, with hysterical hyperbolic criticism to go with it, so are simply wiping the tapes "just in case".

    It's pathetic.
    Not wiping tapes, one hopes: just limiting access.


  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,108
    WillG said:

    Appears to be an outlier, based on what, exactly? Your desire to obscure what is happening? Because here is the Muslim owned publication Al-Jazeera saying Rotherham is "not an anomaly".

    https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/opinions/2024/2/23/the-uks-grooming-gangs-and-the-lessons-never-learned

    And as Leon has linked, there were a thousand victims in Telford. Oh, and you repeat the deliberately misleading crap about "most abusers were white". Even ignoring the fact that 80% of the population are white, these numbers deliberately conflated all types of child grooming so as to obscure the reality and demographic involved in street grooming.

    Just like the attacks on Andrew Norfolk, this is a case of people launching verbal slurs on those drawing attention to an outrageous scandal and cover-up, because the facts are inconvenient to your view of reality.
    The figure of 1000 in Telford came from a tabloid and has been widely disputed. The true figure seems to be about 100. I've linked to the government report on grooming gangs. It describes its methodology clearly. You don't describe your methodology clearly. You just repeat Tommy Robinson talking points and make wild claims. You are doing nothing to 'save our children' and are effectively cheering on the rioters.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,504

    The event is still well-remembered in the Turkish diaspora.

    Incidentally, the only time I have seen overt racism towards Mrs J was our first night on a trip to Germany.
    IIRC (again), there was an attempt to portray the arson as a bit of a kids jape gone wrong. Which it definitely wasn't.
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366

    It's a political betting blog not GB News.

    And it has always been Mike's site and his rules and now TSE's.
    Yes, and political betters are best informed by an open debate of all the relevant facts of a situation, so they can judge how situations are likely to develop. One of the best things about this forum is being two months ahead of the public debate on a topic, being well informed on who has the strongest arguments and how people of different political views are being influenced. Chasing everyone right of centre, which is what left-wingers want to do, is not helpful to those ends.

    And also, trying to censor viewpoints you dislike is a generally twatty thing to do and you should be called out for it.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,347

    I am seriously thinking of standing down from PB as Sean's Islamophobic/anti immigrant bullshit is wearing me down.
    Oh I hope not. But this 'exult in white riot' stuff is certainly not doing the board any favours. Not imo anyway.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,108
    WillG said:

    Yes, and political betters are best informed by an open debate of all the relevant facts of a situation, so they can judge how situations are likely to develop. One of the best things about this forum is being two months ahead of the public debate on a topic, being well informed on who has the strongest arguments and how people of different political views are being influenced. Chasing everyone right of centre, which is what left-wingers want to do, is not helpful to those ends.

    And also, trying to censor viewpoints you dislike is a generally twatty thing to do and you should be called out for it.
    I've not seen you bring any relevant facts to the conversation.
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366

    The figure of 1000 in Telford came from a tabloid and has been widely disputed. The true figure seems to be about 100. I've linked to the government report on grooming gangs. It describes its methodology clearly. You don't describe your methodology clearly. You just repeat Tommy Robinson talking points and make wild claims. You are doing nothing to 'save our children' and are effectively cheering on the rioters.
    I haven't said a single thing to cheer on rioters. I described the flaws in the methodology clearly, which you are unable to refute. You are part of the horrible effort to sweep the rape of children under the carpet, because you care about maintaining the ideological narrative more than protecting kids. Just like the horrible leadership of the Catholic church.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,051
    Carnyx said:

    Not wiping tapes, one hopes: just limiting access.


    Why? I want to watch the Queens funeral and the King's Coronation, and now I can't? Two of the most significant constitutional events in the last 50 years?

    Absurd. Let me make that decision please.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,051
    Scott_xP said:

    @gabrielmilland

    A hotel is on fire. With people in it. And a Shadow Cabinet member says this?


    Lord Davies of Gower
    @Byron_Davies
    But Labour blocked the Rwanda Bill 130+ times, of course it’s politically justified!

    It's interesting how some are more interested in using it to smear the Conservatives than anything else.
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366

    I've not seen you bring any relevant facts to the conversation.
    Because you don't accept anything outside your narrow view as "relevant".
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,714

    I am seriously thinking of standing down from PB as Sean's Islamophobic/anti immigrant bullshit is wearing me down.
    Please don't. It's not just Leon, though, is it?

    I've detected a notable shift in the amount of quasi-racist rhetoric on this site in recent weeks, combined with some quite unhinged attacks on the current government. I reckon it started on July 5th. Can't imagine why.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,712
    There's gonna be a lot of people crying for their mothers on that first night in the cell at the start of an eight year stretch.

    Jordan
    @_jrdnp
    ·
    10m
    Young rioters in Middlesbrough live streaming themselves on TikTok smashing up new build homes and random cars
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,504

    Why? I want to watch the Queens funeral and the King's Coronation, and now I can't? Two of the most significant constitutional events in the last 50 years?

    Absurd. Let me make that decision please.
    This is the repeating pattern - it used to be that cultural artefacts that were a bit "salacious" were hidden from public view unless you were given special access.

    We also have the long and illustrious history of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damnatio_memoriae

    There is nothing new, just variations on the old.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,334

    Why? I want to watch the Queens funeral and the King's Coronation, and now I can't? Two of the most significant constitutional events in the last 50 years?

    Absurd. Let me make that decision please.
    Yes the footage should just stand as it is.
  • NEW THREAD

  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,888

    Please don't. It's not just Leon, though, is it?

    I've detected a notable shift in the amount of quasi-racist rhetoric on this site in recent weeks, combined with some quite unhinged attacks on the current government. I reckon it started on July 5th. Can't imagine why.
    I can't understand *some* of the criticism of the government. I've said they've made a couple of wrong moves, but they've only been in power for a few weeks, and most of their mistakes (if they are mistakes...) will take months, years or decades to show.

    Yet some are speaking as though they've had it already.

    SKS is not Truss.

    Thank God.
  • glwglw Posts: 10,255

    There's gonna be a lot of people crying for their mothers on that first night in the cell at the start of an eight year stretch.

    Jordan
    @_jrdnp
    ·
    10m
    Young rioters in Middlesbrough live streaming themselves on TikTok smashing up new build homes and random cars

    It's pretty obvious that the anti-immigration cranks who were at the initial protests have been joined by a lot of scrotes looking for trouble. As well as gawping idiots, some of whom seem to have brought their kids to watch the rioting.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,504

    Anybody who doesn't know the dynamics, history and supposed pretexts of murderous pogroms, in the UK and elsewhere, should be informing themselves, sharpish. Call this what it is.

    https://x.com/hugorifkind/status/1820093646156271960

    Thinking about it....

    Hmmm could @rcs1000 code up the following - When @Leon posts, his IP gets directed to a special version of PB. He sees his posts and everyone else's...

    However, the rest of us don't actually see @Leon's posts. We see a list of comments free of all SeanTs....
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,888
    WillG said:

    Yes, and political betters are best informed by an open debate of all the relevant facts of a situation, so they can judge how situations are likely to develop. One of the best things about this forum is being two months ahead of the public debate on a topic, being well informed on who has the strongest arguments and how people of different political views are being influenced. Chasing everyone right of centre, which is what left-wingers want to do, is not helpful to those ends.

    And also, trying to censor viewpoints you dislike is a generally twatty thing to do and you should be called out for it.
    Leon is not exactly a good source for 'relevant facts' though. Bullshit, yes. Facts, no.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,504

    There's gonna be a lot of people crying for their mothers on that first night in the cell at the start of an eight year stretch.

    Jordan
    @_jrdnp
    ·
    10m
    Young rioters in Middlesbrough live streaming themselves on TikTok smashing up new build homes and random cars

    If you can't do time, don't do racist, thuggish, stupid crime.


  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366

    Leon is not exactly a good source for 'relevant facts' though. Bullshit, yes. Facts, no.
    Playing the man, not the ball. Address his arguments rather than try to ban. The reality is this forum has chased off the vast majority of right wing participants in recent years, leading to a rather stale centre-left group all agreeing with each other. It isn't a surprise that the first time a big hot topic debate happens, the ban calls start coming out. The centre-left really can't tolerate other perspectives existing.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,888
    WillG said:

    Playing the man, not the ball. Address his arguments rather than try to ban. The reality is this forum has chased off the vast majority of right wing participants in recent years, leading to a rather stale centre-left group all agreeing with each other. It isn't a surprise that the first time a big hot topic debate happens, the ban calls start coming out. The centre-left really can't tolerate other perspectives existing.
    You cannot address the ball as he's got a hundred others on the pitch at the time. And often he's playing both goals at the same time.

    As for left versus right: where would you put me on that spectrum?

    " the ban calls start coming out."

    Leon has been banned many times, in his various incarnations. He has also led directly to posters leaving (e.g. Tim). He adds to the site, but also detracts. He's a hard person to defend.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,204
    Reminder about the 1960 presidential vote: Because of the odd situation in Alabama, it is impossible to say for certain whether Nixon or Kennedy won the national popular vote.

    (The Democrats in Alabama put up a mixed set of electors, some pledged to vote for Kennedy, some "unpledged". All of these electors won, so the majority of Alabama voters in that election simultaneously voted for Kennedy -- and against him.

    I have been thinking about this problem for years, and have come to this tentative conclusion: The Democratic Party narrowly won the popular vote in 1960 -- and Nixon narrowly won the popular vote. Probably.

    But I wouldn't argue with anyone who came to a different conclusion -- if they had a reasonable argument, with numbers.

    I have read that Theodore White's "The Making of the President: 1960" later editions were changed to say Democratic Party, instead of Kennedy, when describing the popular vote.)
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,227
    Nunu5 said:

    https://x.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1820041010598027648

    Well this is very bad from Jenrick.

    I hope he isn't saying what he thinks he should to win

    Why?
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 9,364
    FF43 said:

    Relative size of markets. It's not worth investing in UK specific certifications for a small overall British fleet when UK facilities can no longer service the much larger EU fleets.
    You know this is all EU protectionism? Equivalence is the rational approach - as the US and UK have accepted - but the EU has rejected because they don’t want to open their domestic markets to UK competition

  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,347
    WillG said:

    Playing the man, not the ball. Address his arguments rather than try to ban. The reality is this forum has chased off the vast majority of right wing participants in recent years, leading to a rather stale centre-left group all agreeing with each other. It isn't a surprise that the first time a big hot topic debate happens, the ban calls start coming out. The centre-left really can't tolerate other perspectives existing.
    To do argument against racist rhetoric is admirable but it requires time and patience and is of questionable value since the rhetoric will just keep on coming.

    No easy answers here. My personal preference is 'ignore' or 'mock' since banning imbues a gravitas which is unmerited.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 9,364
    HYUFD said:

    Yes, legally the records manager can destroy any records not required under the organisation's retention schedule, whether for legal or operational reasons as you say. However some records will be transferred to the archives for historical research purposes for the archivist to maintain and these records include the ones with Huw Edwards on broadcasts of state events the BBC are
    now tampering with
    I thought the palace owned the copyright?

    Wasn’t it controversial at the time?

  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,227
    FPT

    Starmer very specifically separated protest from violence:

    Let me turn now to the actions of a tiny, mindless minority in our society. Because in the aftermath of this attack the community of Southport had to suffer twice.
    A gang of thugs, got on trains and busses went to a community that is not their own - a community grieving the most horrific tragedy - and then proceeded to throw bricks at police officers. Police officers who just 24 hours earlier had been having to deal with an attack on children in their community. Their community.
    And make no mistake, whether it’s in Southport, London – or Hartlepool…
    These people are showing our country exactly who they are.
    Mosques targeted because they are Mosques.
    Flares thrown at the statue of Winston Churchill.
    A Nazi salute at the Cenotaph.
    And so I’ve just held a meeting with senior police and law enforcement leaders, where we’ve resolved to show who we are. A country – that will not allow understandable fear to curdle into division and hate in our communities. And that will not permit, under any circumstances a breakdown in law and order on our streets.
    Because let’s be very clear about this. It’s not protest. It’s not legitimate. It’s crime. Violent disorder. An assault on the rule of law and the execution of justice.

    I genuinely struggle to see what the problem is with this.

    I see two issues with the speech. Firstly, as I said, it makes no attempt to separate those legitimately excerising their right to gather and protest - rights that I believe the Labour movement was founded upon, with those who were there to vandalise property and assault people. Secondly, I think it was simply inaccurate. The arrests made by the police have included many (if not an overwhelming majority) of Southport locals. So it wasn't just bussed in thugs (though I am sure they were there too), it was overheated locals.

    A more well-judged speech might have been to say that whilst anger at the horrifying crimes was understandable and that he understood concerns around recent migration, he needed time to work on these issues, and for now, given that protests were being hijacked by a lawless minority, he urged people to stay at home, and punish Labour at the ballot box in the next election if it had failed on immigration and security matters.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022

    It's absurd. I occasionally like to rewatch the King's coronation. Are the BBC now saying I can never do that again?

    They're doing it out of a pathetic weakness; a fear they'll be seen as protecting nonces and one of their own, with hysterical hyperbolic criticism to go with it, so are simply wiping the tapes "just in case".

    It's pathetic.
    Only a few years ago, we would all have bought the commemorative DVDs of these significant cultural events.
  • Babbage9Babbage9 Posts: 10
    Hello, am i on the wrong thread, how does this work….
  • Yes. Refresh page and click on the next thread called a fortnight on
  • "... the time of the next election it should be plain to far more people just how impactful these technologies will be"

    It's quite likely that the AI hype will prove to be a bubble, and lots of tech investors will lose a heck of a lot of money. That's certainly an impact.
    There's a tangible value in AI already. It may not be obvious to the general public but it is there.

    LLM's are increasingly displacing search engines. That's a very big deal in itself. About 40% of my search inquires now go through Claude. No one wants to waste time and AI is faster for many simple queries.

    Additionally, I can use it to create code. That's a big deal also since you essentially triple the number of people who can code in the general population.

    I can use it to create content: images, music etc, simple videos. This is invaluable for content creation. That makes a lot of people with something to contribute able to compete on social media.
This discussion has been closed.