The far right aren’t stopping - and neither are we. Yesterday showed when we come out in big numbers we can beat them back. And we need to continue that today:
Do the dick heads on the left need the dick heads on the right to feel relevant or what? A pox on both of them.
If this continues it is only going to become worse with extremes of right and left taking each other on on the streets and cities of our country
I believe the media are not helping and as an example Sky broadcast live from Southport every day last week and frankly, IMHO, the journalists would have been better returning to their studios and turning down the dial
Looking at the make up of the demonstrators what is worrying is just how many young people are at the forefront and, despite the widespread criticism which is justified, it needs to be asked why are these people so angry and, yes the police can arrest and imprison some of them but it looks like the genie is out of the bottle and serious questions how to address these issues need to be considered and not for mps to stand aloof in Westminster
Whats the longest we ever go without some summer riots? Seems to happen every 5-10 years.
Wikipedia implies it’s a quasi-decadal event, like the sunspot cycle.
Though I expect that page may be a bit selective. And that’s England. Add Northern Ireland and it’s somewhat more regular.
There’s definitely a tendency for people to think everything is much more dramatic and unprecedented than in the past. We see it with geopolitics and economics. When in fact every few years at least there’s something that makes everyone fear the end of the world.
2021 summer riots delayed by covid, I guess?
Probably just government planning going to pot as usual. Everything is delayed these days, ask the Scottish islands about ferries (and stand well back).
These riots are quite different from what we've seen in the recent past in England, as they are mainly not carried out by an ethnic minority who see themselves marginalised.
Therefore I expect they will have a much larger political impact i.e. the violence will impact policy whether we like it or not.
I think the evidence is that they are exactly the same in that they are being carried out by an ethnic minority (at least locally) who consider themselves marginalised and ignored by the establishment.
They look very like the pissed up, pilled up blokes who spend most Saturday afternoons from September to May looking for fights in and around football grounds.
Yes, because the BBC and other media outlets are very happy to show the angry white blokes, but don't want to show images of the Muslims with machetes for fear of "stoking tensions".
But that doesn’t work any more because everyone can see the Muslims with machetes on TwiX. Some of the videos have had several millions of views - possibly more impact than if they’d gone out on the TV
The lack of impartiality is astonishing. It was the same with the triple stabbing in Dublin when it happened. The media makes very clear when it is "far right" violence (knowing everyone correctly reads that as angry white guys) but skims over the background of the other side, or who committed the initial attack.
We are also paying the price for no major action ever happening over the tens of thousands of white children that got raped by a certain background of street grooming gangs. There was a brief moment of openness when the sheer scale of government failure became apparent, but it was quickly moved on from by the media. If the public don't trust the authorities to be fair, they sadly take action into their own hands.
There haven't been "tens of thousands of white children that got raped by a certain background of street grooming gangs". That's a Tommy Robinson talking point and the sort of disinformation that has stoked these riots. The problem is people like you.
The Labour MP for Rotherham reckoned it could have been a million:
Would be surprised and very disappointed if Cleverly backed Trump. Will cost him one vote if he does and makes it to the final two. Could be a spoilt ballot then.
As a Tory-leaning voter, I will never vote Tory if the leader backs Trump. It shows they fundamentally don't understand conservatism. And are generally a scummy person.
Perhaps a true Tory backs Trump so that the rebellious colonies see the error of their ways though?
(I'd strongly prefer all of our politicians to never comment on US politics.)
A true North American Tory would have moved to what became Canada after the US War of Independence and retained the King as their head of state!
I imagine some few did. But mostly the war of Independence would have washed over the populace. The disagreements were after all slight. (Just happen to be reading about this, so feel some small confidence in pontificating)
Tommeh is claiming 10,000 protestors at Rotherham. If so that’s an awful lot - but who knows
Police clearly outnumbered
What happens if the starmer clampdown doesn’t work and thousands keep on rioting? He can’t lock up the entire white working class much as he’d like to
Jeez, I wonder what possibly could have caused mass latent anger in Rotherham. Did anything major happen over the last decade or so where the authorities failed horrifically and the media swiftly moved on?
I see you're in the Jews were responsible for Kristallnacht phase.
That is horseshit. I have never blamed the victims of riots. I was clearly criticizing the authorities.
I think giving British governments more control is a legitimate reason to vote Leave and not stupid. Voting Leave to reduce immigration, which is what we we are talking about here, might be a legitimate reason to vote Leave. It was a mistake in that case because the opposite happened. I can to go into the reasons why, and some of them are directly related to Brexit. What people assumed would happen didn't happen. You make mistakes when you don't check your assumptions. Intelligent people are perfectly capable of making mistakes. Intelligent or not, I make them all the time.
Brexit is the ultimate British expression of Fuck Around and Find Out.
Ending FoM increased immigration.
Anyone crying "that's not what we voted for" can fuck off. You voted for Brexit? This is your reward...
With respect, you are talking shite.
Brexit significantly reduced immigration from the EU. That is all it could influence.
The Tory government then chose to enact policies that vastly increased immigration from the rest of the world.
Government policy. Not a result of Brexit.
Freedom of movement provided flexibility for the labour market, with people coming and going to fill vacancies. Without that, we have seen more long-term immigration.
No, that isn't what happened. We decided to let in Ukrainian and Hong Kong asylum seekers and we reduced the restrictions on skilled worker visas. But all immigration law is now under HMG control, relaxations can be reversed and new controls have been put in place. Which is what Sunak has now done.
I don't know if you saw the news a few weeks back, but we had an election and Sunak lost...
Tommeh is claiming 10,000 protestors at Rotherham. If so that’s an awful lot - but who knows
Police clearly outnumbered
What happens if the starmer clampdown doesn’t work and thousands keep on rioting? He can’t lock up the entire white working class much as he’d like to
Jeez, I wonder what possibly could have caused mass latent anger in Rotherham. Did anything major happen over the last decade or so where the authorities failed horrifically and the media swiftly moved on?
I see you're in the Jews were responsible for Kristallnacht phase.
That is horseshit. I have never blamed the victims of riots. I was clearly criticizing the authorities.
I think giving British governments more control is a legitimate reason to vote Leave and not stupid. Voting Leave to reduce immigration, which is what we we are talking about here, might be a legitimate reason to vote Leave. It was a mistake in that case because the opposite happened. I can to go into the reasons why, and some of them are directly related to Brexit. What people assumed would happen didn't happen. You make mistakes when you don't check your assumptions. Intelligent people are perfectly capable of making mistakes. Intelligent or not, I make them all the time.
Brexit is the ultimate British expression of Fuck Around and Find Out.
Ending FoM increased immigration.
Anyone crying "that's not what we voted for" can fuck off. You voted for Brexit? This is your reward...
With respect, you are talking shite.
Brexit significantly reduced immigration from the EU. That is all it could influence.
The Tory government then chose to enact policies that vastly increased immigration from the rest of the world.
Government policy. Not a result of Brexit.
Freedom of movement provided flexibility for the labour market, with people coming and going to fill vacancies. Without that, we have seen more long-term immigration.
No, that isn't what happened. We decided to let in Ukrainian and Hong Kong asylum seekers and we reduced the restrictions on skilled worker visas. But all immigration law is now under HMG control, relaxations can be reversed and new controls have been put in place. Which is what Sunak has now done.
I don't know if you saw the news a few weeks back, but we had an election and Sunak lost...
Yes, Starmer won on a nationalist ticket of plastering the Union Jack everywhere, cutting immigration and deporting people to Bangladesh.
Indeed in the Brexit vote the people - in the biggest vote ever - said Stop. Reduce immigration.
Are you really saying the Brexit vote was won by anti-immigrants?
Every time we pointed that out over the last 8 years you lot were whining some bollocks about Sovereignty.
The closet racists and swivel-eyed loons are out and about now...
No, you tedious fuck, I said that I MYSELF voted on the grounds of democracy and sovereignty. I wholly accept millions of Brits voted Leave on the grounds of restricting immigration - as is their right
You know this. Maybe grow up, finally?
Surprised that the Leave vote of somebody so passionately opposed to immigration wasn't influenced by a desire to restrict immigration.
Because I don’t have an issue with Polish plumbers. Never did
But many Leave voters did, is what you're saying.
And you're also saying that due to being thick as bricks they thought Brexit meant less immigration from Africa and Asia.
I think there's much truth in that. Still, done now. No point re-litigating.
The far right aren’t stopping - and neither are we. Yesterday showed when we come out in big numbers we can beat them back. And we need to continue that today:
Do the dick heads on the left need the dick heads on the right to feel relevant or what? A pox on both of them.
If this continues it is only going to become worse with extremes of right and left taking each other on on the streets and cities of our country
I believe the media are not helping and as an example Sky broadcast live from Southport every day last week and frankly, IMHO, the journalists would have been better returning to their studios and turning down the dial
Looking at the make up of the demonstrators what is worrying is just how many young people are at the forefront and, despite the widespread criticism which is justified, it needs to be asked why are these people so angry and, yes the police can arrest and imprison some of them but it looks like the genie is out of the bottle and serious questions how to address these issues need to be considered and not for mps to stand aloof in Westminster
Whats the longest we ever go without some summer riots? Seems to happen every 5-10 years.
Wikipedia implies it’s a quasi-decadal event, like the sunspot cycle.
Though I expect that page may be a bit selective. And that’s England. Add Northern Ireland and it’s somewhat more regular.
There’s definitely a tendency for people to think everything is much more dramatic and unprecedented than in the past. We see it with geopolitics and economics. When in fact every few years at least there’s something that makes everyone fear the end of the world.
2021 summer riots delayed by covid, I guess?
Probably just government planning going to pot as usual. Everything is delayed these days, ask the Scottish islands about ferries (and stand well back).
These riots are quite different from what we've seen in the recent past in England, as they are mainly not carried out by an ethnic minority who see themselves marginalised.
Therefore I expect they will have a much larger political impact i.e. the violence will impact policy whether we like it or not.
I think the evidence is that they are exactly the same in that they are being carried out by an ethnic minority (at least locally) who consider themselves marginalised and ignored by the establishment.
They look very like the pissed up, pilled up blokes who spend most Saturday afternoons from September to May looking for fights in and around football grounds.
Yes, because the BBC and other media outlets are very happy to show the angry white blokes, but don't want to show images of the Muslims with machetes for fear of "stoking tensions".
But that doesn’t work any more because everyone can see the Muslims with machetes on TwiX. Some of the videos have had several millions of views - possibly more impact than if they’d gone out on the TV
The lack of impartiality is astonishing. It was the same with the triple stabbing in Dublin when it happened. The media makes very clear when it is "far right" violence (knowing everyone correctly reads that as angry white guys) but skims over the background of the other side, or who committed the initial attack.
We are also paying the price for no major action ever happening over the tens of thousands of white children that got raped by a certain background of street grooming gangs. There was a brief moment of openness when the sheer scale of government failure became apparent, but it was quickly moved on from by the media. If the public don't trust the authorities to be fair, they sadly take action into their own hands.
There haven't been "tens of thousands of white children that got raped by a certain background of street grooming gangs". That's a Tommy Robinson talking point and the sort of disinformation that has stoked these riots. The problem is people like you.
The Labour MP for Rotherham reckoned it could have been a million:
She was wrong then and, as far as I know, hasn't put forth such claims recently.
1,400 girls were raped in and around of one town of 70,000. And yet you think it's plausible that that town represented 1/7th of all street grooming victims by such gangs. Even though we have had confirmed gangs of such type in two dozen towns, and that's just the ones we know about.
Yes. Its absolutely brain dead and no one buys this lying bullshit anymore. The fact is - as Sarah champion said - wherever they looked for this grooming they found it. And it went on over decades all over the country. “Tens of thousands” is a conservative estimate
Tommeh is claiming 10,000 protestors at Rotherham. If so that’s an awful lot - but who knows
Police clearly outnumbered
What happens if the starmer clampdown doesn’t work and thousands keep on rioting? He can’t lock up the entire white working class much as he’d like to
Jeez, I wonder what possibly could have caused mass latent anger in Rotherham. Did anything major happen over the last decade or so where the authorities failed horrifically and the media swiftly moved on?
I see you're in the Jews were responsible for Kristallnacht phase.
That is horseshit. I have never blamed the victims of riots. I was clearly criticizing the authorities.
Of course you were.
This reminds of the slur campaign against Andrew Norfolk when he was reporting on the cover up of grooming gangs. You have an ideology you want to push, you can't refute my points, and so you throw Nazi accusations out. There is not a single quote of mine where I attacked the victims of this violence. The only criticisms I have made on this topic have been of the authorities, the media's refusal to cover properly, and some of the idiots on this forum.
The far right aren’t stopping - and neither are we. Yesterday showed when we come out in big numbers we can beat them back. And we need to continue that today:
Do the dick heads on the left need the dick heads on the right to feel relevant or what? A pox on both of them.
If this continues it is only going to become worse with extremes of right and left taking each other on on the streets and cities of our country
I believe the media are not helping and as an example Sky broadcast live from Southport every day last week and frankly, IMHO, the journalists would have been better returning to their studios and turning down the dial
Looking at the make up of the demonstrators what is worrying is just how many young people are at the forefront and, despite the widespread criticism which is justified, it needs to be asked why are these people so angry and, yes the police can arrest and imprison some of them but it looks like the genie is out of the bottle and serious questions how to address these issues need to be considered and not for mps to stand aloof in Westminster
Whats the longest we ever go without some summer riots? Seems to happen every 5-10 years.
Wikipedia implies it’s a quasi-decadal event, like the sunspot cycle.
Though I expect that page may be a bit selective. And that’s England. Add Northern Ireland and it’s somewhat more regular.
There’s definitely a tendency for people to think everything is much more dramatic and unprecedented than in the past. We see it with geopolitics and economics. When in fact every few years at least there’s something that makes everyone fear the end of the world.
2021 summer riots delayed by covid, I guess?
Probably just government planning going to pot as usual. Everything is delayed these days, ask the Scottish islands about ferries (and stand well back).
These riots are quite different from what we've seen in the recent past in England, as they are mainly not carried out by an ethnic minority who see themselves marginalised.
Therefore I expect they will have a much larger political impact i.e. the violence will impact policy whether we like it or not.
I think the evidence is that they are exactly the same in that they are being carried out by an ethnic minority (at least locally) who consider themselves marginalised and ignored by the establishment.
They look very like the pissed up, pilled up blokes who spend most Saturday afternoons from September to May looking for fights in and around football grounds.
Yes, because the BBC and other media outlets are very happy to show the angry white blokes, but don't want to show images of the Muslims with machetes for fear of "stoking tensions".
But that doesn’t work any more because everyone can see the Muslims with machetes on TwiX. Some of the videos have had several millions of views - possibly more impact than if they’d gone out on the TV
The lack of impartiality is astonishing. It was the same with the triple stabbing in Dublin when it happened. The media makes very clear when it is "far right" violence (knowing everyone correctly reads that as angry white guys) but skims over the background of the other side, or who committed the initial attack.
We are also paying the price for no major action ever happening over the tens of thousands of white children that got raped by a certain background of street grooming gangs. There was a brief moment of openness when the sheer scale of government failure became apparent, but it was quickly moved on from by the media. If the public don't trust the authorities to be fair, they sadly take action into their own hands.
There haven't been "tens of thousands of white children that got raped by a certain background of street grooming gangs". That's a Tommy Robinson talking point and the sort of disinformation that has stoked these riots. The problem is people like you.
The Labour MP for Rotherham reckoned it could have been a million:
She was wrong then and, as far as I know, hasn't put forth such claims recently.
1,400 girls were raped in and around of one town of 70,000. And yet you think it's plausible that that town represented 1/7th of all street grooming victims by such gangs. Even though we have had confirmed gangs of such type in two dozen towns, and that's just the ones we know about.
Yes. Its absolutely brain dead and no one buys this lying bullshit anymore. The fact is - as Sarah champion said - wherever they looked for this grooming they found it. And it went on over decades all over the country. “Tens of thousands” is a conservative estimate
I think giving British governments more control is a legitimate reason to vote Leave and not stupid. Voting Leave to reduce immigration, which is what we we are talking about here, might be a legitimate reason to vote Leave. It was a mistake in that case because the opposite happened. I can to go into the reasons why, and some of them are directly related to Brexit. What people assumed would happen didn't happen. You make mistakes when you don't check your assumptions. Intelligent people are perfectly capable of making mistakes. Intelligent or not, I make them all the time.
Brexit is the ultimate British expression of Fuck Around and Find Out.
Ending FoM increased immigration.
Anyone crying "that's not what we voted for" can fuck off. You voted for Brexit? This is your reward...
With respect, you are talking shite.
Brexit significantly reduced immigration from the EU. That is all it could influence.
The Tory government then chose to enact policies that vastly increased immigration from the rest of the world.
Government policy. Not a result of Brexit.
Freedom of movement provided flexibility for the labour market, with people coming and going to fill vacancies. Without that, we have seen more long-term immigration.
No, that isn't what happened. We decided to let in Ukrainian and Hong Kong asylum seekers and we reduced the restrictions on skilled worker visas. But all immigration law is now under HMG control, relaxations can be reversed and new controls have been put in place. Which is what Sunak has now done.
I don't know if you saw the news a few weeks back, but we had an election and Sunak lost...
Yes, and the way law and policy works is that stuff remains in place until government changes it. If that happens, the voters can kick out Starmer next election.
The scenes in Rotherham aren’t a protest, they aren’t even a far right riot, they are an ongoing attempt to murder the men, women & children inside by burning them alive.
The stench of these days will hang around those who incited and justified it for the rest of their lives.
Watching fucking thick chavs and cops beat the shit out of each is great. It's the same sort of relaxed vibe you get from watching a good football match where you really don't care who wins or loses.
Best take tbh.
Like the 2011 riots this might well be symptomatic of something or other, but really to most of the participants (and spectators) it's just a chance for a ruck. The weather's hot.
Tommeh is claiming 10,000 protestors at Rotherham. If so that’s an awful lot - but who knows
Police clearly outnumbered
What happens if the starmer clampdown doesn’t work and thousands keep on rioting? He can’t lock up the entire white working class much as he’d like to
Jeez, I wonder what possibly could have caused mass latent anger in Rotherham. Did anything major happen over the last decade or so where the authorities failed horrifically and the media swiftly moved on?
I see you're in the Jews were responsible for Kristallnacht phase.
That is horseshit. I have never blamed the victims of riots. I was clearly criticizing the authorities.
Of course you were.
This reminds of the slur campaign against Andrew Norfolk when he was reporting on the cover up of grooming gangs. You have an ideology you want to push, you can't refute my points, and so you throw Nazi accusations out. There is not a single quote of mine where I attacked the victims of this violence. The only criticisms I have made on this topic have been of the authorities, the media's refusal to cover properly, and some of the idiots on this forum.
I live next door to Rotherham, a lot has gone on since the Jay Report came out, the town was healing. The people have had four opportunities to send a message to the authorities since the Jay report, most recently when the Tories ballsed things up, they've rejected the language of hatred of Farage and others.
The far right aren’t stopping - and neither are we. Yesterday showed when we come out in big numbers we can beat them back. And we need to continue that today:
Do the dick heads on the left need the dick heads on the right to feel relevant or what? A pox on both of them.
If this continues it is only going to become worse with extremes of right and left taking each other on on the streets and cities of our country
I believe the media are not helping and as an example Sky broadcast live from Southport every day last week and frankly, IMHO, the journalists would have been better returning to their studios and turning down the dial
Looking at the make up of the demonstrators what is worrying is just how many young people are at the forefront and, despite the widespread criticism which is justified, it needs to be asked why are these people so angry and, yes the police can arrest and imprison some of them but it looks like the genie is out of the bottle and serious questions how to address these issues need to be considered and not for mps to stand aloof in Westminster
Whats the longest we ever go without some summer riots? Seems to happen every 5-10 years.
Wikipedia implies it’s a quasi-decadal event, like the sunspot cycle.
Though I expect that page may be a bit selective. And that’s England. Add Northern Ireland and it’s somewhat more regular.
There’s definitely a tendency for people to think everything is much more dramatic and unprecedented than in the past. We see it with geopolitics and economics. When in fact every few years at least there’s something that makes everyone fear the end of the world.
2021 summer riots delayed by covid, I guess?
Probably just government planning going to pot as usual. Everything is delayed these days, ask the Scottish islands about ferries (and stand well back).
These riots are quite different from what we've seen in the recent past in England, as they are mainly not carried out by an ethnic minority who see themselves marginalised.
Therefore I expect they will have a much larger political impact i.e. the violence will impact policy whether we like it or not.
I think the evidence is that they are exactly the same in that they are being carried out by an ethnic minority (at least locally) who consider themselves marginalised and ignored by the establishment.
They look very like the pissed up, pilled up blokes who spend most Saturday afternoons from September to May looking for fights in and around football grounds.
Yes, because the BBC and other media outlets are very happy to show the angry white blokes, but don't want to show images of the Muslims with machetes for fear of "stoking tensions".
But that doesn’t work any more because everyone can see the Muslims with machetes on TwiX. Some of the videos have had several millions of views - possibly more impact than if they’d gone out on the TV
The lack of impartiality is astonishing. It was the same with the triple stabbing in Dublin when it happened. The media makes very clear when it is "far right" violence (knowing everyone correctly reads that as angry white guys) but skims over the background of the other side, or who committed the initial attack.
We are also paying the price for no major action ever happening over the tens of thousands of white children that got raped by a certain background of street grooming gangs. There was a brief moment of openness when the sheer scale of government failure became apparent, but it was quickly moved on from by the media. If the public don't trust the authorities to be fair, they sadly take action into their own hands.
There haven't been "tens of thousands of white children that got raped by a certain background of street grooming gangs". That's a Tommy Robinson talking point and the sort of disinformation that has stoked these riots. The problem is people like you.
The Labour MP for Rotherham reckoned it could have been a million:
She was wrong then and, as far as I know, hasn't put forth such claims recently.
1,400 girls were raped in and around of one town of 70,000. And yet you think it's plausible that that town represented 1/7th of all street grooming victims by such gangs. Even though we have had confirmed gangs of such type in two dozen towns, and that's just the ones we know about.
Tragically, we don't know how many victims there were in Rotherham. 1400 was the Jay report's estimate; other estimates have been lower and others, sadly, have been even higher (the NCA estimated 2000). The scale of what happened in Rotherham appears to have been an outlier, much higher than elsewhere. There is no reason to presume that one can just scale up what happened in Rotherham to the rest of the country.
There are significant problems with child sexual exploitation. The government's own report found that most grooming gangs are white, while also noting problems with poor quality data. You are just posting Tommy Robinson propaganda. Your behaviour does nothing to help those at risk of grooming.
Watching fucking thick chavs and cops beat the shit out of each is great. It's the same sort of relaxed vibe you get from watching a good football match where you really don't care who wins or loses.
Best take tbh.
Like the 2011 riots this might well be symptomatic of something or other, but really to most of the participants (and spectators) it's just a chance for a ruck. The weather's hot.
Except when you start burning down buildings then people die. Didn’t that happen in 2011? IIRC
Violent racists setting fire to a hotel with people in it are not "the working class"
How many of them actually work?
It’s a bit like PJ O’Rourkes comment on the Iraqi Republican Guard - “How do we know if any of them are still Republicans?”
I suspect the immigrants are economically more productive and better skilled than the wwc morons and reform supporters rampaging through the streets. I know who I would like to kick out of the country.
Watching fucking thick chavs and cops beat the shit out of each is great. It's the same sort of relaxed vibe you get from watching a good football match where you really don't care who wins or loses.
Best take tbh.
Like the 2011 riots this might well be symptomatic of something or other, but really to most of the participants (and spectators) it's just a chance for a ruck. The weather's hot.
Except when you start burning down buildings then people die. Didn’t that happen in 2011? IIRC
Wrong, there were plenty of buildings set on fire, such as this one.
((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 1m People are currently attempting to burn down a hotel housing migrants. This is not a “protest”. It’s racist thuggery on a par with what we saw in Nazi Germany in the 1930’s. We need unequivocal condemnation and forceful police intervention on a commensurate scale.
Watching fucking thick chavs and cops beat the shit out of each is great. It's the same sort of relaxed vibe you get from watching a good football match where you really don't care who wins or loses.
Best take tbh.
Like the 2011 riots this might well be symptomatic of something or other, but really to most of the participants (and spectators) it's just a chance for a ruck. The weather's hot.
Except when you start burning down buildings then people die. Didn’t that happen in 2011? IIRC
Wrong, there were plenty of buildings set on fire, such as this one.
Muslims and immigrants fair game for lynching apparently...
Connor Tomlinson @Con_Tomlinson Even this conciliatory statement by Donna Jones misreads the public mood
It is not a matter of illegal or "irregular" migration
Both the Southport stabber and the subsequent Islamic settlements targeted by the riots were imported legally into Britain
Rubber-stamping citizenship, as Starmer and Rayner have promised to do, will not stop the indigenous population from feeling culturally displaced from their homeland
A houseguest is not entitled to rearrange the furniture against the wishes of the homeowners
The Southport murders, though not an Islsmic terror attack (as far as we all know), have become a lightning rod for public discontent about Islam and immigration more broadly for this exact reason
Mass immigration of all kinds must end
Foreign criminals must be deported
Islam must not be appeased by laws which privilege the feelings of Muslims over the rights of an Englishman to freely speak his mind
The far right aren’t stopping - and neither are we. Yesterday showed when we come out in big numbers we can beat them back. And we need to continue that today:
Do the dick heads on the left need the dick heads on the right to feel relevant or what? A pox on both of them.
If this continues it is only going to become worse with extremes of right and left taking each other on on the streets and cities of our country
I believe the media are not helping and as an example Sky broadcast live from Southport every day last week and frankly, IMHO, the journalists would have been better returning to their studios and turning down the dial
Looking at the make up of the demonstrators what is worrying is just how many young people are at the forefront and, despite the widespread criticism which is justified, it needs to be asked why are these people so angry and, yes the police can arrest and imprison some of them but it looks like the genie is out of the bottle and serious questions how to address these issues need to be considered and not for mps to stand aloof in Westminster
Whats the longest we ever go without some summer riots? Seems to happen every 5-10 years.
Wikipedia implies it’s a quasi-decadal event, like the sunspot cycle.
Though I expect that page may be a bit selective. And that’s England. Add Northern Ireland and it’s somewhat more regular.
There’s definitely a tendency for people to think everything is much more dramatic and unprecedented than in the past. We see it with geopolitics and economics. When in fact every few years at least there’s something that makes everyone fear the end of the world.
2021 summer riots delayed by covid, I guess?
Probably just government planning going to pot as usual. Everything is delayed these days, ask the Scottish islands about ferries (and stand well back).
These riots are quite different from what we've seen in the recent past in England, as they are mainly not carried out by an ethnic minority who see themselves marginalised.
Therefore I expect they will have a much larger political impact i.e. the violence will impact policy whether we like it or not.
I think the evidence is that they are exactly the same in that they are being carried out by an ethnic minority (at least locally) who consider themselves marginalised and ignored by the establishment.
They look very like the pissed up, pilled up blokes who spend most Saturday afternoons from September to May looking for fights in and around football grounds.
Yes, because the BBC and other media outlets are very happy to show the angry white blokes, but don't want to show images of the Muslims with machetes for fear of "stoking tensions".
But that doesn’t work any more because everyone can see the Muslims with machetes on TwiX. Some of the videos have had several millions of views - possibly more impact than if they’d gone out on the TV
The lack of impartiality is astonishing. It was the same with the triple stabbing in Dublin when it happened. The media makes very clear when it is "far right" violence (knowing everyone correctly reads that as angry white guys) but skims over the background of the other side, or who committed the initial attack.
We are also paying the price for no major action ever happening over the tens of thousands of white children that got raped by a certain background of street grooming gangs. There was a brief moment of openness when the sheer scale of government failure became apparent, but it was quickly moved on from by the media. If the public don't trust the authorities to be fair, they sadly take action into their own hands.
There haven't been "tens of thousands of white children that got raped by a certain background of street grooming gangs". That's a Tommy Robinson talking point and the sort of disinformation that has stoked these riots. The problem is people like you.
The Labour MP for Rotherham reckoned it could have been a million:
She was wrong then and, as far as I know, hasn't put forth such claims recently.
1,400 girls were raped in and around of one town of 70,000. And yet you think it's plausible that that town represented 1/7th of all street grooming victims by such gangs. Even though we have had confirmed gangs of such type in two dozen towns, and that's just the ones we know about.
Yes. Its absolutely brain dead and no one buys this lying bullshit anymore. The fact is - as Sarah champion said - wherever they looked for this grooming they found it. And it went on over decades all over the country. “Tens of thousands” is a conservative estimate
Right-wing commentators in the press and elsewhere, and politicians, including several from Conservatives and Reform, spend years demonising and 'othering' asylum seekers as a threat to our way of life.
Right-wing thugs respond to this incitement by attacking asylum seekers, or indeed anybody with a skin colour that they interpret could constitute that of an asylum seeker.
It's not difficult, and is fuck all to do with grooming gangs, which is a separate story unless you're mendacious enough to conflate the two.
Tommeh is claiming 10,000 protestors at Rotherham. If so that’s an awful lot - but who knows
Police clearly outnumbered
What happens if the starmer clampdown doesn’t work and thousands keep on rioting? He can’t lock up the entire white working class much as he’d like to
Jeez, I wonder what possibly could have caused mass latent anger in Rotherham. Did anything major happen over the last decade or so where the authorities failed horrifically and the media swiftly moved on?
I see you're in the Jews were responsible for Kristallnacht phase.
That is horseshit. I have never blamed the victims of riots. I was clearly criticizing the authorities.
Of course you were.
This reminds of the slur campaign against Andrew Norfolk when he was reporting on the cover up of grooming gangs. You have an ideology you want to push, you can't refute my points, and so you throw Nazi accusations out. There is not a single quote of mine where I attacked the victims of this violence. The only criticisms I have made on this topic have been of the authorities, the media's refusal to cover properly, and some of the idiots on this forum.
I live next door to Rotherham, a lot has gone on since the Jay Report came out, the town was healing. The people have had four opportunities to send a message to the authorities since the Jay report, most recently when the Tories ballsed things up, they've rejected the language of hatred of Farage and others.
Racist scum have whipped up a nasty atmosphere.
You seem intent on giving them an excuse.
When was the last time you visited Rotherham?
Haven't been in Rotherham for a while, but I have good friends in Doncaster and Barnsley who I speak to regularly. What is the "lot has gone on", exactly? Because the patchy coverage we manage to get shows it's not really happening elsewhere.
For example, in Rochdale, a similar town an hour away, grooming is 'categorically' still happening.
Or nation-wide, police still blame young girls for being groomed by gangs. Oh, and nobody is bothering to improve the data to find out an accurate view of grooming gangs. Almost like they don't want an accurate view to be known publicly.
((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 1m People are currently attempting to burn down a hotel housing migrants. This is not a “protest”. It’s racist thuggery on a par with what we saw in Nazi Germany in the 1930’s. We need unequivocal condemnation and forceful police intervention on a commensurate scale.
The far right aren’t stopping - and neither are we. Yesterday showed when we come out in big numbers we can beat them back. And we need to continue that today:
Do the dick heads on the left need the dick heads on the right to feel relevant or what? A pox on both of them.
If this continues it is only going to become worse with extremes of right and left taking each other on on the streets and cities of our country
I believe the media are not helping and as an example Sky broadcast live from Southport every day last week and frankly, IMHO, the journalists would have been better returning to their studios and turning down the dial
Looking at the make up of the demonstrators what is worrying is just how many young people are at the forefront and, despite the widespread criticism which is justified, it needs to be asked why are these people so angry and, yes the police can arrest and imprison some of them but it looks like the genie is out of the bottle and serious questions how to address these issues need to be considered and not for mps to stand aloof in Westminster
Whats the longest we ever go without some summer riots? Seems to happen every 5-10 years.
Wikipedia implies it’s a quasi-decadal event, like the sunspot cycle.
Though I expect that page may be a bit selective. And that’s England. Add Northern Ireland and it’s somewhat more regular.
There’s definitely a tendency for people to think everything is much more dramatic and unprecedented than in the past. We see it with geopolitics and economics. When in fact every few years at least there’s something that makes everyone fear the end of the world.
2021 summer riots delayed by covid, I guess?
Probably just government planning going to pot as usual. Everything is delayed these days, ask the Scottish islands about ferries (and stand well back).
These riots are quite different from what we've seen in the recent past in England, as they are mainly not carried out by an ethnic minority who see themselves marginalised.
Therefore I expect they will have a much larger political impact i.e. the violence will impact policy whether we like it or not.
I think the evidence is that they are exactly the same in that they are being carried out by an ethnic minority (at least locally) who consider themselves marginalised and ignored by the establishment.
They look very like the pissed up, pilled up blokes who spend most Saturday afternoons from September to May looking for fights in and around football grounds.
Yes, because the BBC and other media outlets are very happy to show the angry white blokes, but don't want to show images of the Muslims with machetes for fear of "stoking tensions".
But that doesn’t work any more because everyone can see the Muslims with machetes on TwiX. Some of the videos have had several millions of views - possibly more impact than if they’d gone out on the TV
The lack of impartiality is astonishing. It was the same with the triple stabbing in Dublin when it happened. The media makes very clear when it is "far right" violence (knowing everyone correctly reads that as angry white guys) but skims over the background of the other side, or who committed the initial attack.
We are also paying the price for no major action ever happening over the tens of thousands of white children that got raped by a certain background of street grooming gangs. There was a brief moment of openness when the sheer scale of government failure became apparent, but it was quickly moved on from by the media. If the public don't trust the authorities to be fair, they sadly take action into their own hands.
There haven't been "tens of thousands of white children that got raped by a certain background of street grooming gangs". That's a Tommy Robinson talking point and the sort of disinformation that has stoked these riots. The problem is people like you.
The Labour MP for Rotherham reckoned it could have been a million:
She was wrong then and, as far as I know, hasn't put forth such claims recently.
1,400 girls were raped in and around of one town of 70,000. And yet you think it's plausible that that town represented 1/7th of all street grooming victims by such gangs. Even though we have had confirmed gangs of such type in two dozen towns, and that's just the ones we know about.
Yes. Its absolutely brain dead and no one buys this lying bullshit anymore. The fact is - as Sarah champion said - wherever they looked for this grooming they found it. And it went on over decades all over the country. “Tens of thousands” is a conservative estimate
Watching fucking thick chavs and cops beat the shit out of each is great. It's the same sort of relaxed vibe you get from watching a good football match where you really don't care who wins or loses.
Best take tbh.
Like the 2011 riots this might well be symptomatic of something or other, but really to most of the participants (and spectators) it's just a chance for a ruck. The weather's hot.
Except when you start burning down buildings then people die. Didn’t that happen in 2011? IIRC
Wrong, there were plenty of buildings set on fire, such as this one.
Tommeh is claiming 10,000 protestors at Rotherham. If so that’s an awful lot - but who knows
Police clearly outnumbered
What happens if the starmer clampdown doesn’t work and thousands keep on rioting? He can’t lock up the entire white working class much as he’d like to
Jeez, I wonder what possibly could have caused mass latent anger in Rotherham. Did anything major happen over the last decade or so where the authorities failed horrifically and the media swiftly moved on?
I see you're in the Jews were responsible for Kristallnacht phase.
That is horseshit. I have never blamed the victims of riots. I was clearly criticizing the authorities.
Of course you were.
This reminds of the slur campaign against Andrew Norfolk when he was reporting on the cover up of grooming gangs. You have an ideology you want to push, you can't refute my points, and so you throw Nazi accusations out. There is not a single quote of mine where I attacked the victims of this violence. The only criticisms I have made on this topic have been of the authorities, the media's refusal to cover properly, and some of the idiots on this forum.
I live next door to Rotherham, a lot has gone on since the Jay Report came out, the town was healing. The people have had four opportunities to send a message to the authorities since the Jay report, most recently when the Tories ballsed things up, they've rejected the language of hatred of Farage and others.
Racist scum have whipped up a nasty atmosphere.
You seem intent on giving them an excuse.
When was the last time you visited Rotherham?
Haven't been in Rotherham for a while, but I have good friends in Doncaster and Barnsley who I speak to regularly. What is the "lot has gone on", exactly? Because the patchy coverage we manage to get shows it's not really happening elsewhere.
For example, in Rochdale, a similar town an hour away, grooming is 'categorically' still happening.
Or nation-wide, police still blame young girls for being groomed by gangs. Oh, and nobody is bothering to improve the data to find out an accurate view of grooming gangs. Almost like they don't want an accurate view to be known publicly.
Some weird England flag with Anarchist symbols on it in Rotherham, an unusual combination. Frankly just looking at the mix of people rioting it doesn't look vastly different from previous summer riots, seems to be that any excuse for violence and looting will do.
Watching fucking thick chavs and cops beat the shit out of each is great. It's the same sort of relaxed vibe you get from watching a good football match where you really don't care who wins or loses.
Best take tbh.
Like the 2011 riots this might well be symptomatic of something or other, but really to most of the participants (and spectators) it's just a chance for a ruck. The weather's hot.
Except when you start burning down buildings then people die. Didn’t that happen in 2011? IIRC
Wrong, there were plenty of buildings set on fire, such as this one.
The BBC shouldn't be trying to alter their archives imo. They can't pretend that Edwards wasn't presenting the news nearly every day for about 15 years or whatever it was.
It's absurd. I occasionally like to rewatch the King's coronation. Are the BBC now saying I can never do that again?
They're doing it out of a pathetic weakness; a fear they'll be seen as protecting nonces and one of their own, with hysterical hyperbolic criticism to go with it, so are simply wiping the tapes "just in case".
The far right aren’t stopping - and neither are we. Yesterday showed when we come out in big numbers we can beat them back. And we need to continue that today:
Do the dick heads on the left need the dick heads on the right to feel relevant or what? A pox on both of them.
If this continues it is only going to become worse with extremes of right and left taking each other on on the streets and cities of our country
I believe the media are not helping and as an example Sky broadcast live from Southport every day last week and frankly, IMHO, the journalists would have been better returning to their studios and turning down the dial
Looking at the make up of the demonstrators what is worrying is just how many young people are at the forefront and, despite the widespread criticism which is justified, it needs to be asked why are these people so angry and, yes the police can arrest and imprison some of them but it looks like the genie is out of the bottle and serious questions how to address these issues need to be considered and not for mps to stand aloof in Westminster
Whats the longest we ever go without some summer riots? Seems to happen every 5-10 years.
Wikipedia implies it’s a quasi-decadal event, like the sunspot cycle.
Though I expect that page may be a bit selective. And that’s England. Add Northern Ireland and it’s somewhat more regular.
There’s definitely a tendency for people to think everything is much more dramatic and unprecedented than in the past. We see it with geopolitics and economics. When in fact every few years at least there’s something that makes everyone fear the end of the world.
2021 summer riots delayed by covid, I guess?
Probably just government planning going to pot as usual. Everything is delayed these days, ask the Scottish islands about ferries (and stand well back).
These riots are quite different from what we've seen in the recent past in England, as they are mainly not carried out by an ethnic minority who see themselves marginalised.
Therefore I expect they will have a much larger political impact i.e. the violence will impact policy whether we like it or not.
I think the evidence is that they are exactly the same in that they are being carried out by an ethnic minority (at least locally) who consider themselves marginalised and ignored by the establishment.
They look very like the pissed up, pilled up blokes who spend most Saturday afternoons from September to May looking for fights in and around football grounds.
Yes, because the BBC and other media outlets are very happy to show the angry white blokes, but don't want to show images of the Muslims with machetes for fear of "stoking tensions".
But that doesn’t work any more because everyone can see the Muslims with machetes on TwiX. Some of the videos have had several millions of views - possibly more impact than if they’d gone out on the TV
The lack of impartiality is astonishing. It was the same with the triple stabbing in Dublin when it happened. The media makes very clear when it is "far right" violence (knowing everyone correctly reads that as angry white guys) but skims over the background of the other side, or who committed the initial attack.
We are also paying the price for no major action ever happening over the tens of thousands of white children that got raped by a certain background of street grooming gangs. There was a brief moment of openness when the sheer scale of government failure became apparent, but it was quickly moved on from by the media. If the public don't trust the authorities to be fair, they sadly take action into their own hands.
There haven't been "tens of thousands of white children that got raped by a certain background of street grooming gangs". That's a Tommy Robinson talking point and the sort of disinformation that has stoked these riots. The problem is people like you.
The Labour MP for Rotherham reckoned it could have been a million:
She was wrong then and, as far as I know, hasn't put forth such claims recently.
1,400 girls were raped in and around of one town of 70,000. And yet you think it's plausible that that town represented 1/7th of all street grooming victims by such gangs. Even though we have had confirmed gangs of such type in two dozen towns, and that's just the ones we know about.
Yes. Its absolutely brain dead and no one buys this lying bullshit anymore. The fact is - as Sarah champion said - wherever they looked for this grooming they found it. And it went on over decades all over the country. “Tens of thousands” is a conservative estimate
((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 1m People are currently attempting to burn down a hotel housing migrants. This is not a “protest”. It’s racist thuggery on a par with what we saw in Nazi Germany in the 1930’s. We need unequivocal condemnation and forceful police intervention on a commensurate scale.
Remarkably, I agree with Dan.
More sense from Dan
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 6h There's no political justification for the disorder we've seen. But if people want to get into the blame game, these are the facts. The Tories were in power for 14 years. Labour have been in power for 4 weeks. Blaming Keir Starmer and Yvette Cooper for this is just ridiculous.
The far right aren’t stopping - and neither are we. Yesterday showed when we come out in big numbers we can beat them back. And we need to continue that today:
Do the dick heads on the left need the dick heads on the right to feel relevant or what? A pox on both of them.
If this continues it is only going to become worse with extremes of right and left taking each other on on the streets and cities of our country
I believe the media are not helping and as an example Sky broadcast live from Southport every day last week and frankly, IMHO, the journalists would have been better returning to their studios and turning down the dial
Looking at the make up of the demonstrators what is worrying is just how many young people are at the forefront and, despite the widespread criticism which is justified, it needs to be asked why are these people so angry and, yes the police can arrest and imprison some of them but it looks like the genie is out of the bottle and serious questions how to address these issues need to be considered and not for mps to stand aloof in Westminster
Whats the longest we ever go without some summer riots? Seems to happen every 5-10 years.
Wikipedia implies it’s a quasi-decadal event, like the sunspot cycle.
Though I expect that page may be a bit selective. And that’s England. Add Northern Ireland and it’s somewhat more regular.
There’s definitely a tendency for people to think everything is much more dramatic and unprecedented than in the past. We see it with geopolitics and economics. When in fact every few years at least there’s something that makes everyone fear the end of the world.
2021 summer riots delayed by covid, I guess?
Probably just government planning going to pot as usual. Everything is delayed these days, ask the Scottish islands about ferries (and stand well back).
These riots are quite different from what we've seen in the recent past in England, as they are mainly not carried out by an ethnic minority who see themselves marginalised.
Therefore I expect they will have a much larger political impact i.e. the violence will impact policy whether we like it or not.
I think the evidence is that they are exactly the same in that they are being carried out by an ethnic minority (at least locally) who consider themselves marginalised and ignored by the establishment.
They look very like the pissed up, pilled up blokes who spend most Saturday afternoons from September to May looking for fights in and around football grounds.
Yes, because the BBC and other media outlets are very happy to show the angry white blokes, but don't want to show images of the Muslims with machetes for fear of "stoking tensions".
But that doesn’t work any more because everyone can see the Muslims with machetes on TwiX. Some of the videos have had several millions of views - possibly more impact than if they’d gone out on the TV
The lack of impartiality is astonishing. It was the same with the triple stabbing in Dublin when it happened. The media makes very clear when it is "far right" violence (knowing everyone correctly reads that as angry white guys) but skims over the background of the other side, or who committed the initial attack.
We are also paying the price for no major action ever happening over the tens of thousands of white children that got raped by a certain background of street grooming gangs. There was a brief moment of openness when the sheer scale of government failure became apparent, but it was quickly moved on from by the media. If the public don't trust the authorities to be fair, they sadly take action into their own hands.
There haven't been "tens of thousands of white children that got raped by a certain background of street grooming gangs". That's a Tommy Robinson talking point and the sort of disinformation that has stoked these riots. The problem is people like you.
The Labour MP for Rotherham reckoned it could have been a million:
She was wrong then and, as far as I know, hasn't put forth such claims recently.
1,400 girls were raped in and around of one town of 70,000. And yet you think it's plausible that that town represented 1/7th of all street grooming victims by such gangs. Even though we have had confirmed gangs of such type in two dozen towns, and that's just the ones we know about.
Tragically, we don't know how many victims there were in Rotherham. 1400 was the Jay report's estimate; other estimates have been lower and others, sadly, have been even higher (the NCA estimated 2000). The scale of what happened in Rotherham appears to have been an outlier, much higher than elsewhere. There is no reason to presume that one can just scale up what happened in Rotherham to the rest of the country.
There are significant problems with child sexual exploitation. The government's own report found that most grooming gangs are white, while also noting problems with poor quality data. You are just posting Tommy Robinson propaganda. Your behaviour does nothing to help those at risk of grooming.
Appears to be an outlier, based on what, exactly? Your desire to obscure what is happening? Because here is the Muslim owned publication Al-Jazeera saying Rotherham is "not an anomaly".
And as Leon has linked, there were a thousand victims in Telford. Oh, and you repeat the deliberately misleading crap about "most abusers were white". Even ignoring the fact that 80% of the population are white, these numbers deliberately conflated all types of child grooming so as to obscure the reality and demographic involved in street grooming.
Just like the attacks on Andrew Norfolk, this is a case of people launching verbal slurs on those drawing attention to an outrageous scandal and cover-up, because the facts are inconvenient to your view of reality.
I also think the new government should find the £800 million for the supercomputer when the previous one didn't. It's not a huge sum in the scheme of things. It seems worthwhile on its own terms and maintains credibility in UK scientific projects when others have invested in this project on the understanding the computer would be in place.
The thing I don't get about this decision is that if flies in the face of Labour's growth and industries of the future message.
Labour's been in a month and they are cutting science and technology investment, cutting univeral benefits, getting rid of the social care cap, cutting transport projects, and throwing money at the union led public sector in pay rises. How the hell does that produce the business growth that's meant to pay for everything?
Maybe it will all change come the autumn, but I expect a damp squib now, and we will soon be wondering what happened to Labour's campaign promises.
On your point about cutting Winter Fuel Allowance for better off pensioners and removing the social care cap while increasing public sector pay, I think it just shows public sector workers are a key constituency for Labour while the wealthy retired are not. The Conservatives constituencies are the other way round.
I wouldn't read anything more into it than that.
Poor retired will have something to say about it, not all pensioners are rich
Poor retired keep the winter fuel allowance. Even the rich pensioners get more state handouts next year than last due to the massive pension increase far outweighting the fuel allowance.
Only the "poor retired" who claim it can keep the winter fuel allowance.
Well sorry but I don't see why we should spend £1bn or so on wealthy pensioners because a few of the poorer ones are unwilling to claim what they are entitled to. By all means put some of the savings into a campaign to increase take up.
I don’t think their messaging was right on this and I think they could’ve done with laying the groundwork for it.
It felt a little bit like a bit of a reactive tantrum: “look what the Tories have done! Because of this you can’t have this nice thing anymore. And by the way your taxes are also going up in the budget.”
They’d have perhaps been better at testing the water first and mentioning some universal benefits would need to be restricted. And coupling it with some of the messaging as you have said above. It was very curious why they decided to come out with it at the same time as the public sector pay rise news because then the two are linked (the “I am not getting my money because rich doctors are getting a pay rise” narrative is starting already).
Reeves has had a dreadful start imho.
The trouble is no-one believes her lies. And she's actually given a platform for Jeremy Hunt, a decent man, to take the moral high ground.
Less than one month in and it's already very clear: this Labour government is not going to be a happy one.
The far right aren’t stopping - and neither are we. Yesterday showed when we come out in big numbers we can beat them back. And we need to continue that today:
Do the dick heads on the left need the dick heads on the right to feel relevant or what? A pox on both of them.
If this continues it is only going to become worse with extremes of right and left taking each other on on the streets and cities of our country
I believe the media are not helping and as an example Sky broadcast live from Southport every day last week and frankly, IMHO, the journalists would have been better returning to their studios and turning down the dial
Looking at the make up of the demonstrators what is worrying is just how many young people are at the forefront and, despite the widespread criticism which is justified, it needs to be asked why are these people so angry and, yes the police can arrest and imprison some of them but it looks like the genie is out of the bottle and serious questions how to address these issues need to be considered and not for mps to stand aloof in Westminster
Whats the longest we ever go without some summer riots? Seems to happen every 5-10 years.
Wikipedia implies it’s a quasi-decadal event, like the sunspot cycle.
Though I expect that page may be a bit selective. And that’s England. Add Northern Ireland and it’s somewhat more regular.
There’s definitely a tendency for people to think everything is much more dramatic and unprecedented than in the past. We see it with geopolitics and economics. When in fact every few years at least there’s something that makes everyone fear the end of the world.
2021 summer riots delayed by covid, I guess?
Probably just government planning going to pot as usual. Everything is delayed these days, ask the Scottish islands about ferries (and stand well back).
These riots are quite different from what we've seen in the recent past in England, as they are mainly not carried out by an ethnic minority who see themselves marginalised.
Therefore I expect they will have a much larger political impact i.e. the violence will impact policy whether we like it or not.
I think the evidence is that they are exactly the same in that they are being carried out by an ethnic minority (at least locally) who consider themselves marginalised and ignored by the establishment.
They look very like the pissed up, pilled up blokes who spend most Saturday afternoons from September to May looking for fights in and around football grounds.
Yes, because the BBC and other media outlets are very happy to show the angry white blokes, but don't want to show images of the Muslims with machetes for fear of "stoking tensions".
But that doesn’t work any more because everyone can see the Muslims with machetes on TwiX. Some of the videos have had several millions of views - possibly more impact than if they’d gone out on the TV
The lack of impartiality is astonishing. It was the same with the triple stabbing in Dublin when it happened. The media makes very clear when it is "far right" violence (knowing everyone correctly reads that as angry white guys) but skims over the background of the other side, or who committed the initial attack.
We are also paying the price for no major action ever happening over the tens of thousands of white children that got raped by a certain background of street grooming gangs. There was a brief moment of openness when the sheer scale of government failure became apparent, but it was quickly moved on from by the media. If the public don't trust the authorities to be fair, they sadly take action into their own hands.
There haven't been "tens of thousands of white children that got raped by a certain background of street grooming gangs". That's a Tommy Robinson talking point and the sort of disinformation that has stoked these riots. The problem is people like you.
The Labour MP for Rotherham reckoned it could have been a million:
She was wrong then and, as far as I know, hasn't put forth such claims recently.
1,400 girls were raped in and around of one town of 70,000. And yet you think it's plausible that that town represented 1/7th of all street grooming victims by such gangs. Even though we have had confirmed gangs of such type in two dozen towns, and that's just the ones we know about.
Yes. Its absolutely brain dead and no one buys this lying bullshit anymore. The fact is - as Sarah champion said - wherever they looked for this grooming they found it. And it went on over decades all over the country. “Tens of thousands” is a conservative estimate
Watching fucking thick chavs and cops beat the shit out of each is great. It's the same sort of relaxed vibe you get from watching a good football match where you really don't care who wins or loses.
Best take tbh.
Like the 2011 riots this might well be symptomatic of something or other, but really to most of the participants (and spectators) it's just a chance for a ruck. The weather's hot.
Except when you start burning down buildings then people die. Didn’t that happen in 2011? IIRC
Wrong, there were plenty of buildings set on fire, such as this one.
I think that counts as home improvement in Croydon.
You are aware that there are flats above such shops in London? Arson to such shops carries a high risk of trapping people in a burning flat.
Just like setting fire to a hotel.
Only murderous scum do things like that.
"On the night of 28–29 May 1993, four young German men (ages 16–23) belonging to the far right skinhead scene, with neo-Nazi ties, set fire to the house of a large Turkish family in Solingen in North Rhine-Westphalia, Germany. Three girls and two women died; fourteen other family members, including several children, were injured, some of them severely. "
Watching fucking thick chavs and cops beat the shit out of each is great. It's the same sort of relaxed vibe you get from watching a good football match where you really don't care who wins or loses.
Best take tbh.
Like the 2011 riots this might well be symptomatic of something or other, but really to most of the participants (and spectators) it's just a chance for a ruck. The weather's hot.
Except when you start burning down buildings then people die. Didn’t that happen in 2011? IIRC
Wrong, there were plenty of buildings set on fire, such as this one.
Tommeh is claiming 10,000 protestors at Rotherham. If so that’s an awful lot - but who knows
Police clearly outnumbered
What happens if the starmer clampdown doesn’t work and thousands keep on rioting? He can’t lock up the entire white working class much as he’d like to
Jeez, I wonder what possibly could have caused mass latent anger in Rotherham. Did anything major happen over the last decade or so where the authorities failed horrifically and the media swiftly moved on?
I see you're in the Jews were responsible for Kristallnacht phase.
That is horseshit. I have never blamed the victims of riots. I was clearly criticizing the authorities.
Of course you were.
This reminds of the slur campaign against Andrew Norfolk when he was reporting on the cover up of grooming gangs. You have an ideology you want to push, you can't refute my points, and so you throw Nazi accusations out. There is not a single quote of mine where I attacked the victims of this violence. The only criticisms I have made on this topic have been of the authorities, the media's refusal to cover properly, and some of the idiots on this forum.
I live next door to Rotherham, a lot has gone on since the Jay Report came out, the town was healing. The people have had four opportunities to send a message to the authorities since the Jay report, most recently when the Tories ballsed things up, they've rejected the language of hatred of Farage and others.
Racist scum have whipped up a nasty atmosphere.
You seem intent on giving them an excuse.
When was the last time you visited Rotherham?
Haven't been in Rotherham for a while, but I have good friends in Doncaster and Barnsley who I speak to regularly. What is the "lot has gone on", exactly? Because the patchy coverage we manage to get shows it's not really happening elsewhere.
For example, in Rochdale, a similar town an hour away, grooming is 'categorically' still happening.
Or nation-wide, police still blame young girls for being groomed by gangs. Oh, and nobody is bothering to improve the data to find out an accurate view of grooming gangs. Almost like they don't want an accurate view to be known publicly.
These 'friends' you should speak to them in more detail.
So you've not been in Rotherham for a while, so stop talking about that which you know not.
I am always happy to talk to people and find out information I do not know. Unlike some on here, I am not afraid to hear new arguments and evidence and debate it head on.
So what is the "lot that has gone on" in Rotherham, that contravenes the facts I have put forward?
Watching fucking thick chavs and cops beat the shit out of each is great. It's the same sort of relaxed vibe you get from watching a good football match where you really don't care who wins or loses.
Best take tbh.
Like the 2011 riots this might well be symptomatic of something or other, but really to most of the participants (and spectators) it's just a chance for a ruck. The weather's hot.
Except when you start burning down buildings then people die. Didn’t that happen in 2011? IIRC
Wrong, there were plenty of buildings set on fire, such as this one.
I think that counts as home improvement in Croydon.
You are aware that there are flats above such shops in London? Arson to such shops carries a high risk of trapping people in a burning flat.
Just like setting fire to a hotel.
Only murderous scum do things like that.
"On the night of 28–29 May 1993, four young German men (ages 16–23) belonging to the far right skinhead scene, with neo-Nazi ties, set fire to the house of a large Turkish family in Solingen in North Rhine-Westphalia, Germany. Three girls and two women died; fourteen other family members, including several children, were injured, some of them severely. "
Watching fucking thick chavs and cops beat the shit out of each is great. It's the same sort of relaxed vibe you get from watching a good football match where you really don't care who wins or loses.
Best take tbh.
Like the 2011 riots this might well be symptomatic of something or other, but really to most of the participants (and spectators) it's just a chance for a ruck. The weather's hot.
Except when you start burning down buildings then people die. Didn’t that happen in 2011? IIRC
Wrong, there were plenty of buildings set on fire, such as this one.
I think that counts as home improvement in Croydon.
You are aware that there are flats above such shops in London? Arson to such shops carries a high risk of trapping people in a burning flat.
Just like setting fire to a hotel.
Only murderous scum do things like that.
"On the night of 28–29 May 1993, four young German men (ages 16–23) belonging to the far right skinhead scene, with neo-Nazi ties, set fire to the house of a large Turkish family in Solingen in North Rhine-Westphalia, Germany. Three girls and two women died; fourteen other family members, including several children, were injured, some of them severely. "
The far right aren’t stopping - and neither are we. Yesterday showed when we come out in big numbers we can beat them back. And we need to continue that today:
Do the dick heads on the left need the dick heads on the right to feel relevant or what? A pox on both of them.
If this continues it is only going to become worse with extremes of right and left taking each other on on the streets and cities of our country
I believe the media are not helping and as an example Sky broadcast live from Southport every day last week and frankly, IMHO, the journalists would have been better returning to their studios and turning down the dial
Looking at the make up of the demonstrators what is worrying is just how many young people are at the forefront and, despite the widespread criticism which is justified, it needs to be asked why are these people so angry and, yes the police can arrest and imprison some of them but it looks like the genie is out of the bottle and serious questions how to address these issues need to be considered and not for mps to stand aloof in Westminster
Whats the longest we ever go without some summer riots? Seems to happen every 5-10 years.
Wikipedia implies it’s a quasi-decadal event, like the sunspot cycle.
Though I expect that page may be a bit selective. And that’s England. Add Northern Ireland and it’s somewhat more regular.
There’s definitely a tendency for people to think everything is much more dramatic and unprecedented than in the past. We see it with geopolitics and economics. When in fact every few years at least there’s something that makes everyone fear the end of the world.
2021 summer riots delayed by covid, I guess?
Probably just government planning going to pot as usual. Everything is delayed these days, ask the Scottish islands about ferries (and stand well back).
These riots are quite different from what we've seen in the recent past in England, as they are mainly not carried out by an ethnic minority who see themselves marginalised.
Therefore I expect they will have a much larger political impact i.e. the violence will impact policy whether we like it or not.
I think the evidence is that they are exactly the same in that they are being carried out by an ethnic minority (at least locally) who consider themselves marginalised and ignored by the establishment.
They look very like the pissed up, pilled up blokes who spend most Saturday afternoons from September to May looking for fights in and around football grounds.
Yes, because the BBC and other media outlets are very happy to show the angry white blokes, but don't want to show images of the Muslims with machetes for fear of "stoking tensions".
But that doesn’t work any more because everyone can see the Muslims with machetes on TwiX. Some of the videos have had several millions of views - possibly more impact than if they’d gone out on the TV
The lack of impartiality is astonishing. It was the same with the triple stabbing in Dublin when it happened. The media makes very clear when it is "far right" violence (knowing everyone correctly reads that as angry white guys) but skims over the background of the other side, or who committed the initial attack.
We are also paying the price for no major action ever happening over the tens of thousands of white children that got raped by a certain background of street grooming gangs. There was a brief moment of openness when the sheer scale of government failure became apparent, but it was quickly moved on from by the media. If the public don't trust the authorities to be fair, they sadly take action into their own hands.
There haven't been "tens of thousands of white children that got raped by a certain background of street grooming gangs". That's a Tommy Robinson talking point and the sort of disinformation that has stoked these riots. The problem is people like you.
The Labour MP for Rotherham reckoned it could have been a million:
She was wrong then and, as far as I know, hasn't put forth such claims recently.
1,400 girls were raped in and around of one town of 70,000. And yet you think it's plausible that that town represented 1/7th of all street grooming victims by such gangs. Even though we have had confirmed gangs of such type in two dozen towns, and that's just the ones we know about.
Yes. Its absolutely brain dead and no one buys this lying bullshit anymore. The fact is - as Sarah champion said - wherever they looked for this grooming they found it. And it went on over decades all over the country. “Tens of thousands” is a conservative estimate
The far right aren’t stopping - and neither are we. Yesterday showed when we come out in big numbers we can beat them back. And we need to continue that today:
Do the dick heads on the left need the dick heads on the right to feel relevant or what? A pox on both of them.
If this continues it is only going to become worse with extremes of right and left taking each other on on the streets and cities of our country
I believe the media are not helping and as an example Sky broadcast live from Southport every day last week and frankly, IMHO, the journalists would have been better returning to their studios and turning down the dial
Looking at the make up of the demonstrators what is worrying is just how many young people are at the forefront and, despite the widespread criticism which is justified, it needs to be asked why are these people so angry and, yes the police can arrest and imprison some of them but it looks like the genie is out of the bottle and serious questions how to address these issues need to be considered and not for mps to stand aloof in Westminster
Whats the longest we ever go without some summer riots? Seems to happen every 5-10 years.
Wikipedia implies it’s a quasi-decadal event, like the sunspot cycle.
Though I expect that page may be a bit selective. And that’s England. Add Northern Ireland and it’s somewhat more regular.
There’s definitely a tendency for people to think everything is much more dramatic and unprecedented than in the past. We see it with geopolitics and economics. When in fact every few years at least there’s something that makes everyone fear the end of the world.
2021 summer riots delayed by covid, I guess?
Probably just government planning going to pot as usual. Everything is delayed these days, ask the Scottish islands about ferries (and stand well back).
These riots are quite different from what we've seen in the recent past in England, as they are mainly not carried out by an ethnic minority who see themselves marginalised.
Therefore I expect they will have a much larger political impact i.e. the violence will impact policy whether we like it or not.
I think the evidence is that they are exactly the same in that they are being carried out by an ethnic minority (at least locally) who consider themselves marginalised and ignored by the establishment.
They look very like the pissed up, pilled up blokes who spend most Saturday afternoons from September to May looking for fights in and around football grounds.
Yes, because the BBC and other media outlets are very happy to show the angry white blokes, but don't want to show images of the Muslims with machetes for fear of "stoking tensions".
But that doesn’t work any more because everyone can see the Muslims with machetes on TwiX. Some of the videos have had several millions of views - possibly more impact than if they’d gone out on the TV
The lack of impartiality is astonishing. It was the same with the triple stabbing in Dublin when it happened. The media makes very clear when it is "far right" violence (knowing everyone correctly reads that as angry white guys) but skims over the background of the other side, or who committed the initial attack.
We are also paying the price for no major action ever happening over the tens of thousands of white children that got raped by a certain background of street grooming gangs. There was a brief moment of openness when the sheer scale of government failure became apparent, but it was quickly moved on from by the media. If the public don't trust the authorities to be fair, they sadly take action into their own hands.
There haven't been "tens of thousands of white children that got raped by a certain background of street grooming gangs". That's a Tommy Robinson talking point and the sort of disinformation that has stoked these riots. The problem is people like you.
The Labour MP for Rotherham reckoned it could have been a million:
She was wrong then and, as far as I know, hasn't put forth such claims recently.
1,400 girls were raped in and around of one town of 70,000. And yet you think it's plausible that that town represented 1/7th of all street grooming victims by such gangs. Even though we have had confirmed gangs of such type in two dozen towns, and that's just the ones we know about.
Yes. Its absolutely brain dead and no one buys this lying bullshit anymore. The fact is - as Sarah champion said - wherever they looked for this grooming they found it. And it went on over decades all over the country. “Tens of thousands” is a conservative estimate
"On the night of 28–29 May 1993, four young German men (ages 16–23) belonging to the far right skinhead scene, with neo-Nazi ties, set fire to the house of a large Turkish family in Solingen in North Rhine-Westphalia, Germany. Three girls and two women died; fourteen other family members, including several children, were injured, some of them severely. "
The far right aren’t stopping - and neither are we. Yesterday showed when we come out in big numbers we can beat them back. And we need to continue that today:
Do the dick heads on the left need the dick heads on the right to feel relevant or what? A pox on both of them.
If this continues it is only going to become worse with extremes of right and left taking each other on on the streets and cities of our country
I believe the media are not helping and as an example Sky broadcast live from Southport every day last week and frankly, IMHO, the journalists would have been better returning to their studios and turning down the dial
Looking at the make up of the demonstrators what is worrying is just how many young people are at the forefront and, despite the widespread criticism which is justified, it needs to be asked why are these people so angry and, yes the police can arrest and imprison some of them but it looks like the genie is out of the bottle and serious questions how to address these issues need to be considered and not for mps to stand aloof in Westminster
Whats the longest we ever go without some summer riots? Seems to happen every 5-10 years.
Wikipedia implies it’s a quasi-decadal event, like the sunspot cycle.
Though I expect that page may be a bit selective. And that’s England. Add Northern Ireland and it’s somewhat more regular.
There’s definitely a tendency for people to think everything is much more dramatic and unprecedented than in the past. We see it with geopolitics and economics. When in fact every few years at least there’s something that makes everyone fear the end of the world.
2021 summer riots delayed by covid, I guess?
Probably just government planning going to pot as usual. Everything is delayed these days, ask the Scottish islands about ferries (and stand well back).
These riots are quite different from what we've seen in the recent past in England, as they are mainly not carried out by an ethnic minority who see themselves marginalised.
Therefore I expect they will have a much larger political impact i.e. the violence will impact policy whether we like it or not.
I think the evidence is that they are exactly the same in that they are being carried out by an ethnic minority (at least locally) who consider themselves marginalised and ignored by the establishment.
They look very like the pissed up, pilled up blokes who spend most Saturday afternoons from September to May looking for fights in and around football grounds.
Yes, because the BBC and other media outlets are very happy to show the angry white blokes, but don't want to show images of the Muslims with machetes for fear of "stoking tensions".
But that doesn’t work any more because everyone can see the Muslims with machetes on TwiX. Some of the videos have had several millions of views - possibly more impact than if they’d gone out on the TV
The lack of impartiality is astonishing. It was the same with the triple stabbing in Dublin when it happened. The media makes very clear when it is "far right" violence (knowing everyone correctly reads that as angry white guys) but skims over the background of the other side, or who committed the initial attack.
We are also paying the price for no major action ever happening over the tens of thousands of white children that got raped by a certain background of street grooming gangs. There was a brief moment of openness when the sheer scale of government failure became apparent, but it was quickly moved on from by the media. If the public don't trust the authorities to be fair, they sadly take action into their own hands.
There haven't been "tens of thousands of white children that got raped by a certain background of street grooming gangs". That's a Tommy Robinson talking point and the sort of disinformation that has stoked these riots. The problem is people like you.
The Labour MP for Rotherham reckoned it could have been a million:
She was wrong then and, as far as I know, hasn't put forth such claims recently.
1,400 girls were raped in and around of one town of 70,000. And yet you think it's plausible that that town represented 1/7th of all street grooming victims by such gangs. Even though we have had confirmed gangs of such type in two dozen towns, and that's just the ones we know about.
Yes. Its absolutely brain dead and no one buys this lying bullshit anymore. The fact is - as Sarah champion said - wherever they looked for this grooming they found it. And it went on over decades all over the country. “Tens of thousands” is a conservative estimate
The BBC shouldn't be trying to alter their archives imo. They can't pretend that Edwards wasn't presenting the news nearly every day for about 15 years or whatever it was.
It's absurd. I occasionally like to rewatch the King's coronation. Are the BBC now saying I can never do that again?
They're doing it out of a pathetic weakness; a fear they'll be seen as protecting nonces and one of their own, with hysterical hyperbolic criticism to go with it, so are simply wiping the tapes "just in case".
It's pathetic.
Not wiping tapes, one hopes: just limiting access.
The far right aren’t stopping - and neither are we. Yesterday showed when we come out in big numbers we can beat them back. And we need to continue that today:
Do the dick heads on the left need the dick heads on the right to feel relevant or what? A pox on both of them.
If this continues it is only going to become worse with extremes of right and left taking each other on on the streets and cities of our country
I believe the media are not helping and as an example Sky broadcast live from Southport every day last week and frankly, IMHO, the journalists would have been better returning to their studios and turning down the dial
Looking at the make up of the demonstrators what is worrying is just how many young people are at the forefront and, despite the widespread criticism which is justified, it needs to be asked why are these people so angry and, yes the police can arrest and imprison some of them but it looks like the genie is out of the bottle and serious questions how to address these issues need to be considered and not for mps to stand aloof in Westminster
Whats the longest we ever go without some summer riots? Seems to happen every 5-10 years.
Wikipedia implies it’s a quasi-decadal event, like the sunspot cycle.
Though I expect that page may be a bit selective. And that’s England. Add Northern Ireland and it’s somewhat more regular.
There’s definitely a tendency for people to think everything is much more dramatic and unprecedented than in the past. We see it with geopolitics and economics. When in fact every few years at least there’s something that makes everyone fear the end of the world.
2021 summer riots delayed by covid, I guess?
Probably just government planning going to pot as usual. Everything is delayed these days, ask the Scottish islands about ferries (and stand well back).
These riots are quite different from what we've seen in the recent past in England, as they are mainly not carried out by an ethnic minority who see themselves marginalised.
Therefore I expect they will have a much larger political impact i.e. the violence will impact policy whether we like it or not.
I think the evidence is that they are exactly the same in that they are being carried out by an ethnic minority (at least locally) who consider themselves marginalised and ignored by the establishment.
They look very like the pissed up, pilled up blokes who spend most Saturday afternoons from September to May looking for fights in and around football grounds.
Yes, because the BBC and other media outlets are very happy to show the angry white blokes, but don't want to show images of the Muslims with machetes for fear of "stoking tensions".
But that doesn’t work any more because everyone can see the Muslims with machetes on TwiX. Some of the videos have had several millions of views - possibly more impact than if they’d gone out on the TV
The lack of impartiality is astonishing. It was the same with the triple stabbing in Dublin when it happened. The media makes very clear when it is "far right" violence (knowing everyone correctly reads that as angry white guys) but skims over the background of the other side, or who committed the initial attack.
We are also paying the price for no major action ever happening over the tens of thousands of white children that got raped by a certain background of street grooming gangs. There was a brief moment of openness when the sheer scale of government failure became apparent, but it was quickly moved on from by the media. If the public don't trust the authorities to be fair, they sadly take action into their own hands.
There haven't been "tens of thousands of white children that got raped by a certain background of street grooming gangs". That's a Tommy Robinson talking point and the sort of disinformation that has stoked these riots. The problem is people like you.
The Labour MP for Rotherham reckoned it could have been a million:
She was wrong then and, as far as I know, hasn't put forth such claims recently.
1,400 girls were raped in and around of one town of 70,000. And yet you think it's plausible that that town represented 1/7th of all street grooming victims by such gangs. Even though we have had confirmed gangs of such type in two dozen towns, and that's just the ones we know about.
Tragically, we don't know how many victims there were in Rotherham. 1400 was the Jay report's estimate; other estimates have been lower and others, sadly, have been even higher (the NCA estimated 2000). The scale of what happened in Rotherham appears to have been an outlier, much higher than elsewhere. There is no reason to presume that one can just scale up what happened in Rotherham to the rest of the country.
There are significant problems with child sexual exploitation. The government's own report found that most grooming gangs are white, while also noting problems with poor quality data. You are just posting Tommy Robinson propaganda. Your behaviour does nothing to help those at risk of grooming.
Appears to be an outlier, based on what, exactly? Your desire to obscure what is happening? Because here is the Muslim owned publication Al-Jazeera saying Rotherham is "not an anomaly".
And as Leon has linked, there were a thousand victims in Telford. Oh, and you repeat the deliberately misleading crap about "most abusers were white". Even ignoring the fact that 80% of the population are white, these numbers deliberately conflated all types of child grooming so as to obscure the reality and demographic involved in street grooming.
Just like the attacks on Andrew Norfolk, this is a case of people launching verbal slurs on those drawing attention to an outrageous scandal and cover-up, because the facts are inconvenient to your view of reality.
The figure of 1000 in Telford came from a tabloid and has been widely disputed. The true figure seems to be about 100. I've linked to the government report on grooming gangs. It describes its methodology clearly. You don't describe your methodology clearly. You just repeat Tommy Robinson talking points and make wild claims. You are doing nothing to 'save our children' and are effectively cheering on the rioters.
"On the night of 28–29 May 1993, four young German men (ages 16–23) belonging to the far right skinhead scene, with neo-Nazi ties, set fire to the house of a large Turkish family in Solingen in North Rhine-Westphalia, Germany. Three girls and two women died; fourteen other family members, including several children, were injured, some of them severely. "
The far right aren’t stopping - and neither are we. Yesterday showed when we come out in big numbers we can beat them back. And we need to continue that today:
Do the dick heads on the left need the dick heads on the right to feel relevant or what? A pox on both of them.
If this continues it is only going to become worse with extremes of right and left taking each other on on the streets and cities of our country
I believe the media are not helping and as an example Sky broadcast live from Southport every day last week and frankly, IMHO, the journalists would have been better returning to their studios and turning down the dial
Looking at the make up of the demonstrators what is worrying is just how many young people are at the forefront and, despite the widespread criticism which is justified, it needs to be asked why are these people so angry and, yes the police can arrest and imprison some of them but it looks like the genie is out of the bottle and serious questions how to address these issues need to be considered and not for mps to stand aloof in Westminster
Whats the longest we ever go without some summer riots? Seems to happen every 5-10 years.
Wikipedia implies it’s a quasi-decadal event, like the sunspot cycle.
Though I expect that page may be a bit selective. And that’s England. Add Northern Ireland and it’s somewhat more regular.
There’s definitely a tendency for people to think everything is much more dramatic and unprecedented than in the past. We see it with geopolitics and economics. When in fact every few years at least there’s something that makes everyone fear the end of the world.
2021 summer riots delayed by covid, I guess?
Probably just government planning going to pot as usual. Everything is delayed these days, ask the Scottish islands about ferries (and stand well back).
These riots are quite different from what we've seen in the recent past in England, as they are mainly not carried out by an ethnic minority who see themselves marginalised.
Therefore I expect they will have a much larger political impact i.e. the violence will impact policy whether we like it or not.
I think the evidence is that they are exactly the same in that they are being carried out by an ethnic minority (at least locally) who consider themselves marginalised and ignored by the establishment.
They look very like the pissed up, pilled up blokes who spend most Saturday afternoons from September to May looking for fights in and around football grounds.
Yes, because the BBC and other media outlets are very happy to show the angry white blokes, but don't want to show images of the Muslims with machetes for fear of "stoking tensions".
But that doesn’t work any more because everyone can see the Muslims with machetes on TwiX. Some of the videos have had several millions of views - possibly more impact than if they’d gone out on the TV
The lack of impartiality is astonishing. It was the same with the triple stabbing in Dublin when it happened. The media makes very clear when it is "far right" violence (knowing everyone correctly reads that as angry white guys) but skims over the background of the other side, or who committed the initial attack.
We are also paying the price for no major action ever happening over the tens of thousands of white children that got raped by a certain background of street grooming gangs. There was a brief moment of openness when the sheer scale of government failure became apparent, but it was quickly moved on from by the media. If the public don't trust the authorities to be fair, they sadly take action into their own hands.
There haven't been "tens of thousands of white children that got raped by a certain background of street grooming gangs". That's a Tommy Robinson talking point and the sort of disinformation that has stoked these riots. The problem is people like you.
The Labour MP for Rotherham reckoned it could have been a million:
She was wrong then and, as far as I know, hasn't put forth such claims recently.
1,400 girls were raped in and around of one town of 70,000. And yet you think it's plausible that that town represented 1/7th of all street grooming victims by such gangs. Even though we have had confirmed gangs of such type in two dozen towns, and that's just the ones we know about.
Yes. Its absolutely brain dead and no one buys this lying bullshit anymore. The fact is - as Sarah champion said - wherever they looked for this grooming they found it. And it went on over decades all over the country. “Tens of thousands” is a conservative estimate
Be careful, you will be accused of engaging in medieval pogroms in a minute.
Leon is only a hardcore islamophobe not the devil.
I am seriously thinking of standing down from PB as Sean's Islamophobic/anti immigrant bullshit is wearing me down.
Oh, please don't do that. It's your site. Ban him for a while if you've had enough. He's use to it and can amuse himself in France.
Ah yes, the classic preference of the cultural left. Deal with arguments you can't logically defeat by censorship.
It's a political betting blog not GB News.
And it has always been Mike's site and his rules and now TSE's.
Yes, and political betters are best informed by an open debate of all the relevant facts of a situation, so they can judge how situations are likely to develop. One of the best things about this forum is being two months ahead of the public debate on a topic, being well informed on who has the strongest arguments and how people of different political views are being influenced. Chasing everyone right of centre, which is what left-wingers want to do, is not helpful to those ends.
And also, trying to censor viewpoints you dislike is a generally twatty thing to do and you should be called out for it.
The far right aren’t stopping - and neither are we. Yesterday showed when we come out in big numbers we can beat them back. And we need to continue that today:
Do the dick heads on the left need the dick heads on the right to feel relevant or what? A pox on both of them.
If this continues it is only going to become worse with extremes of right and left taking each other on on the streets and cities of our country
I believe the media are not helping and as an example Sky broadcast live from Southport every day last week and frankly, IMHO, the journalists would have been better returning to their studios and turning down the dial
Looking at the make up of the demonstrators what is worrying is just how many young people are at the forefront and, despite the widespread criticism which is justified, it needs to be asked why are these people so angry and, yes the police can arrest and imprison some of them but it looks like the genie is out of the bottle and serious questions how to address these issues need to be considered and not for mps to stand aloof in Westminster
Whats the longest we ever go without some summer riots? Seems to happen every 5-10 years.
Wikipedia implies it’s a quasi-decadal event, like the sunspot cycle.
Though I expect that page may be a bit selective. And that’s England. Add Northern Ireland and it’s somewhat more regular.
There’s definitely a tendency for people to think everything is much more dramatic and unprecedented than in the past. We see it with geopolitics and economics. When in fact every few years at least there’s something that makes everyone fear the end of the world.
2021 summer riots delayed by covid, I guess?
Probably just government planning going to pot as usual. Everything is delayed these days, ask the Scottish islands about ferries (and stand well back).
These riots are quite different from what we've seen in the recent past in England, as they are mainly not carried out by an ethnic minority who see themselves marginalised.
Therefore I expect they will have a much larger political impact i.e. the violence will impact policy whether we like it or not.
I think the evidence is that they are exactly the same in that they are being carried out by an ethnic minority (at least locally) who consider themselves marginalised and ignored by the establishment.
They look very like the pissed up, pilled up blokes who spend most Saturday afternoons from September to May looking for fights in and around football grounds.
Yes, because the BBC and other media outlets are very happy to show the angry white blokes, but don't want to show images of the Muslims with machetes for fear of "stoking tensions".
But that doesn’t work any more because everyone can see the Muslims with machetes on TwiX. Some of the videos have had several millions of views - possibly more impact than if they’d gone out on the TV
The lack of impartiality is astonishing. It was the same with the triple stabbing in Dublin when it happened. The media makes very clear when it is "far right" violence (knowing everyone correctly reads that as angry white guys) but skims over the background of the other side, or who committed the initial attack.
We are also paying the price for no major action ever happening over the tens of thousands of white children that got raped by a certain background of street grooming gangs. There was a brief moment of openness when the sheer scale of government failure became apparent, but it was quickly moved on from by the media. If the public don't trust the authorities to be fair, they sadly take action into their own hands.
There haven't been "tens of thousands of white children that got raped by a certain background of street grooming gangs". That's a Tommy Robinson talking point and the sort of disinformation that has stoked these riots. The problem is people like you.
The Labour MP for Rotherham reckoned it could have been a million:
She was wrong then and, as far as I know, hasn't put forth such claims recently.
1,400 girls were raped in and around of one town of 70,000. And yet you think it's plausible that that town represented 1/7th of all street grooming victims by such gangs. Even though we have had confirmed gangs of such type in two dozen towns, and that's just the ones we know about.
Yes. Its absolutely brain dead and no one buys this lying bullshit anymore. The fact is - as Sarah champion said - wherever they looked for this grooming they found it. And it went on over decades all over the country. “Tens of thousands” is a conservative estimate
The far right aren’t stopping - and neither are we. Yesterday showed when we come out in big numbers we can beat them back. And we need to continue that today:
Do the dick heads on the left need the dick heads on the right to feel relevant or what? A pox on both of them.
If this continues it is only going to become worse with extremes of right and left taking each other on on the streets and cities of our country
I believe the media are not helping and as an example Sky broadcast live from Southport every day last week and frankly, IMHO, the journalists would have been better returning to their studios and turning down the dial
Looking at the make up of the demonstrators what is worrying is just how many young people are at the forefront and, despite the widespread criticism which is justified, it needs to be asked why are these people so angry and, yes the police can arrest and imprison some of them but it looks like the genie is out of the bottle and serious questions how to address these issues need to be considered and not for mps to stand aloof in Westminster
Whats the longest we ever go without some summer riots? Seems to happen every 5-10 years.
Wikipedia implies it’s a quasi-decadal event, like the sunspot cycle.
Though I expect that page may be a bit selective. And that’s England. Add Northern Ireland and it’s somewhat more regular.
There’s definitely a tendency for people to think everything is much more dramatic and unprecedented than in the past. We see it with geopolitics and economics. When in fact every few years at least there’s something that makes everyone fear the end of the world.
2021 summer riots delayed by covid, I guess?
Probably just government planning going to pot as usual. Everything is delayed these days, ask the Scottish islands about ferries (and stand well back).
These riots are quite different from what we've seen in the recent past in England, as they are mainly not carried out by an ethnic minority who see themselves marginalised.
Therefore I expect they will have a much larger political impact i.e. the violence will impact policy whether we like it or not.
I think the evidence is that they are exactly the same in that they are being carried out by an ethnic minority (at least locally) who consider themselves marginalised and ignored by the establishment.
They look very like the pissed up, pilled up blokes who spend most Saturday afternoons from September to May looking for fights in and around football grounds.
Yes, because the BBC and other media outlets are very happy to show the angry white blokes, but don't want to show images of the Muslims with machetes for fear of "stoking tensions".
But that doesn’t work any more because everyone can see the Muslims with machetes on TwiX. Some of the videos have had several millions of views - possibly more impact than if they’d gone out on the TV
The lack of impartiality is astonishing. It was the same with the triple stabbing in Dublin when it happened. The media makes very clear when it is "far right" violence (knowing everyone correctly reads that as angry white guys) but skims over the background of the other side, or who committed the initial attack.
We are also paying the price for no major action ever happening over the tens of thousands of white children that got raped by a certain background of street grooming gangs. There was a brief moment of openness when the sheer scale of government failure became apparent, but it was quickly moved on from by the media. If the public don't trust the authorities to be fair, they sadly take action into their own hands.
There haven't been "tens of thousands of white children that got raped by a certain background of street grooming gangs". That's a Tommy Robinson talking point and the sort of disinformation that has stoked these riots. The problem is people like you.
The Labour MP for Rotherham reckoned it could have been a million:
She was wrong then and, as far as I know, hasn't put forth such claims recently.
1,400 girls were raped in and around of one town of 70,000. And yet you think it's plausible that that town represented 1/7th of all street grooming victims by such gangs. Even though we have had confirmed gangs of such type in two dozen towns, and that's just the ones we know about.
Yes. Its absolutely brain dead and no one buys this lying bullshit anymore. The fact is - as Sarah champion said - wherever they looked for this grooming they found it. And it went on over decades all over the country. “Tens of thousands” is a conservative estimate
Be careful, you will be accused of engaging in medieval pogroms in a minute.
Leon is only a hardcore islamophobe not the devil.
I am seriously thinking of standing down from PB as Sean's Islamophobic/anti immigrant bullshit is wearing me down.
Oh, please don't do that. It's your site. Ban him for a while if you've had enough. He's use to it and can amuse himself in France.
Ah yes, the classic preference of the cultural left. Deal with arguments you can't logically defeat by censorship.
It's a political betting blog not GB News.
And it has always been Mike's site and his rules and now TSE's.
Yes, and political betters are best informed by an open debate of all the relevant facts of a situation, so they can judge how situations are likely to develop. One of the best things about this forum is being two months ahead of the public debate on a topic, being well informed on who has the strongest arguments and how people of different political views are being influenced. Chasing everyone right of centre, which is what left-wingers want to do, is not helpful to those ends.
And also, trying to censor viewpoints you dislike is a generally twatty thing to do and you should be called out for it.
I've not seen you bring any relevant facts to the conversation.
The far right aren’t stopping - and neither are we. Yesterday showed when we come out in big numbers we can beat them back. And we need to continue that today:
Do the dick heads on the left need the dick heads on the right to feel relevant or what? A pox on both of them.
If this continues it is only going to become worse with extremes of right and left taking each other on on the streets and cities of our country
I believe the media are not helping and as an example Sky broadcast live from Southport every day last week and frankly, IMHO, the journalists would have been better returning to their studios and turning down the dial
Looking at the make up of the demonstrators what is worrying is just how many young people are at the forefront and, despite the widespread criticism which is justified, it needs to be asked why are these people so angry and, yes the police can arrest and imprison some of them but it looks like the genie is out of the bottle and serious questions how to address these issues need to be considered and not for mps to stand aloof in Westminster
Whats the longest we ever go without some summer riots? Seems to happen every 5-10 years.
Wikipedia implies it’s a quasi-decadal event, like the sunspot cycle.
Though I expect that page may be a bit selective. And that’s England. Add Northern Ireland and it’s somewhat more regular.
There’s definitely a tendency for people to think everything is much more dramatic and unprecedented than in the past. We see it with geopolitics and economics. When in fact every few years at least there’s something that makes everyone fear the end of the world.
2021 summer riots delayed by covid, I guess?
Probably just government planning going to pot as usual. Everything is delayed these days, ask the Scottish islands about ferries (and stand well back).
These riots are quite different from what we've seen in the recent past in England, as they are mainly not carried out by an ethnic minority who see themselves marginalised.
Therefore I expect they will have a much larger political impact i.e. the violence will impact policy whether we like it or not.
I think the evidence is that they are exactly the same in that they are being carried out by an ethnic minority (at least locally) who consider themselves marginalised and ignored by the establishment.
They look very like the pissed up, pilled up blokes who spend most Saturday afternoons from September to May looking for fights in and around football grounds.
Yes, because the BBC and other media outlets are very happy to show the angry white blokes, but don't want to show images of the Muslims with machetes for fear of "stoking tensions".
But that doesn’t work any more because everyone can see the Muslims with machetes on TwiX. Some of the videos have had several millions of views - possibly more impact than if they’d gone out on the TV
The lack of impartiality is astonishing. It was the same with the triple stabbing in Dublin when it happened. The media makes very clear when it is "far right" violence (knowing everyone correctly reads that as angry white guys) but skims over the background of the other side, or who committed the initial attack.
We are also paying the price for no major action ever happening over the tens of thousands of white children that got raped by a certain background of street grooming gangs. There was a brief moment of openness when the sheer scale of government failure became apparent, but it was quickly moved on from by the media. If the public don't trust the authorities to be fair, they sadly take action into their own hands.
There haven't been "tens of thousands of white children that got raped by a certain background of street grooming gangs". That's a Tommy Robinson talking point and the sort of disinformation that has stoked these riots. The problem is people like you.
The Labour MP for Rotherham reckoned it could have been a million:
She was wrong then and, as far as I know, hasn't put forth such claims recently.
1,400 girls were raped in and around of one town of 70,000. And yet you think it's plausible that that town represented 1/7th of all street grooming victims by such gangs. Even though we have had confirmed gangs of such type in two dozen towns, and that's just the ones we know about.
Tragically, we don't know how many victims there were in Rotherham. 1400 was the Jay report's estimate; other estimates have been lower and others, sadly, have been even higher (the NCA estimated 2000). The scale of what happened in Rotherham appears to have been an outlier, much higher than elsewhere. There is no reason to presume that one can just scale up what happened in Rotherham to the rest of the country.
There are significant problems with child sexual exploitation. The government's own report found that most grooming gangs are white, while also noting problems with poor quality data. You are just posting Tommy Robinson propaganda. Your behaviour does nothing to help those at risk of grooming.
Appears to be an outlier, based on what, exactly? Your desire to obscure what is happening? Because here is the Muslim owned publication Al-Jazeera saying Rotherham is "not an anomaly".
And as Leon has linked, there were a thousand victims in Telford. Oh, and you repeat the deliberately misleading crap about "most abusers were white". Even ignoring the fact that 80% of the population are white, these numbers deliberately conflated all types of child grooming so as to obscure the reality and demographic involved in street grooming.
Just like the attacks on Andrew Norfolk, this is a case of people launching verbal slurs on those drawing attention to an outrageous scandal and cover-up, because the facts are inconvenient to your view of reality.
The figure of 1000 in Telford came from a tabloid and has been widely disputed. The true figure seems to be about 100. I've linked to the government report on grooming gangs. It describes its methodology clearly. You don't describe your methodology clearly. You just repeat Tommy Robinson talking points and make wild claims. You are doing nothing to 'save our children' and are effectively cheering on the rioters.
I haven't said a single thing to cheer on rioters. I described the flaws in the methodology clearly, which you are unable to refute. You are part of the horrible effort to sweep the rape of children under the carpet, because you care about maintaining the ideological narrative more than protecting kids. Just like the horrible leadership of the Catholic church.
The BBC shouldn't be trying to alter their archives imo. They can't pretend that Edwards wasn't presenting the news nearly every day for about 15 years or whatever it was.
It's absurd. I occasionally like to rewatch the King's coronation. Are the BBC now saying I can never do that again?
They're doing it out of a pathetic weakness; a fear they'll be seen as protecting nonces and one of their own, with hysterical hyperbolic criticism to go with it, so are simply wiping the tapes "just in case".
It's pathetic.
Not wiping tapes, one hopes: just limiting access.
Why? I want to watch the Queens funeral and the King's Coronation, and now I can't? Two of the most significant constitutional events in the last 50 years?
Anybody who doesn't know the dynamics, history and supposed pretexts of murderous pogroms, in the UK and elsewhere, should be informing themselves, sharpish. Call this what it is.
The far right aren’t stopping - and neither are we. Yesterday showed when we come out in big numbers we can beat them back. And we need to continue that today:
Do the dick heads on the left need the dick heads on the right to feel relevant or what? A pox on both of them.
If this continues it is only going to become worse with extremes of right and left taking each other on on the streets and cities of our country
I believe the media are not helping and as an example Sky broadcast live from Southport every day last week and frankly, IMHO, the journalists would have been better returning to their studios and turning down the dial
Looking at the make up of the demonstrators what is worrying is just how many young people are at the forefront and, despite the widespread criticism which is justified, it needs to be asked why are these people so angry and, yes the police can arrest and imprison some of them but it looks like the genie is out of the bottle and serious questions how to address these issues need to be considered and not for mps to stand aloof in Westminster
Whats the longest we ever go without some summer riots? Seems to happen every 5-10 years.
Wikipedia implies it’s a quasi-decadal event, like the sunspot cycle.
Though I expect that page may be a bit selective. And that’s England. Add Northern Ireland and it’s somewhat more regular.
There’s definitely a tendency for people to think everything is much more dramatic and unprecedented than in the past. We see it with geopolitics and economics. When in fact every few years at least there’s something that makes everyone fear the end of the world.
2021 summer riots delayed by covid, I guess?
Probably just government planning going to pot as usual. Everything is delayed these days, ask the Scottish islands about ferries (and stand well back).
These riots are quite different from what we've seen in the recent past in England, as they are mainly not carried out by an ethnic minority who see themselves marginalised.
Therefore I expect they will have a much larger political impact i.e. the violence will impact policy whether we like it or not.
I think the evidence is that they are exactly the same in that they are being carried out by an ethnic minority (at least locally) who consider themselves marginalised and ignored by the establishment.
They look very like the pissed up, pilled up blokes who spend most Saturday afternoons from September to May looking for fights in and around football grounds.
Yes, because the BBC and other media outlets are very happy to show the angry white blokes, but don't want to show images of the Muslims with machetes for fear of "stoking tensions".
But that doesn’t work any more because everyone can see the Muslims with machetes on TwiX. Some of the videos have had several millions of views - possibly more impact than if they’d gone out on the TV
The lack of impartiality is astonishing. It was the same with the triple stabbing in Dublin when it happened. The media makes very clear when it is "far right" violence (knowing everyone correctly reads that as angry white guys) but skims over the background of the other side, or who committed the initial attack.
We are also paying the price for no major action ever happening over the tens of thousands of white children that got raped by a certain background of street grooming gangs. There was a brief moment of openness when the sheer scale of government failure became apparent, but it was quickly moved on from by the media. If the public don't trust the authorities to be fair, they sadly take action into their own hands.
There haven't been "tens of thousands of white children that got raped by a certain background of street grooming gangs". That's a Tommy Robinson talking point and the sort of disinformation that has stoked these riots. The problem is people like you.
The Labour MP for Rotherham reckoned it could have been a million:
She was wrong then and, as far as I know, hasn't put forth such claims recently.
1,400 girls were raped in and around of one town of 70,000. And yet you think it's plausible that that town represented 1/7th of all street grooming victims by such gangs. Even though we have had confirmed gangs of such type in two dozen towns, and that's just the ones we know about.
Yes. Its absolutely brain dead and no one buys this lying bullshit anymore. The fact is - as Sarah champion said - wherever they looked for this grooming they found it. And it went on over decades all over the country. “Tens of thousands” is a conservative estimate
Be careful, you will be accused of engaging in medieval pogroms in a minute.
Leon is only a hardcore islamophobe not the devil.
I am seriously thinking of standing down from PB as Sean's Islamophobic/anti immigrant bullshit is wearing me down.
Oh, please don't do that. It's your site. Ban him for a while if you've had enough. He's use to it and can amuse himself in France.
Ah yes, the classic preference of the cultural left. Deal with arguments you can't logically defeat by censorship.
It's a political betting blog not GB News.
And it has always been Mike's site and his rules and now TSE's.
Yes, and political betters are best informed by an open debate of all the relevant facts of a situation, so they can judge how situations are likely to develop. One of the best things about this forum is being two months ahead of the public debate on a topic, being well informed on who has the strongest arguments and how people of different political views are being influenced. Chasing everyone right of centre, which is what left-wingers want to do, is not helpful to those ends.
And also, trying to censor viewpoints you dislike is a generally twatty thing to do and you should be called out for it.
I've not seen you bring any relevant facts to the conversation.
Because you don't accept anything outside your narrow view as "relevant".
The far right aren’t stopping - and neither are we. Yesterday showed when we come out in big numbers we can beat them back. And we need to continue that today:
Do the dick heads on the left need the dick heads on the right to feel relevant or what? A pox on both of them.
If this continues it is only going to become worse with extremes of right and left taking each other on on the streets and cities of our country
I believe the media are not helping and as an example Sky broadcast live from Southport every day last week and frankly, IMHO, the journalists would have been better returning to their studios and turning down the dial
Looking at the make up of the demonstrators what is worrying is just how many young people are at the forefront and, despite the widespread criticism which is justified, it needs to be asked why are these people so angry and, yes the police can arrest and imprison some of them but it looks like the genie is out of the bottle and serious questions how to address these issues need to be considered and not for mps to stand aloof in Westminster
Whats the longest we ever go without some summer riots? Seems to happen every 5-10 years.
Wikipedia implies it’s a quasi-decadal event, like the sunspot cycle.
Though I expect that page may be a bit selective. And that’s England. Add Northern Ireland and it’s somewhat more regular.
There’s definitely a tendency for people to think everything is much more dramatic and unprecedented than in the past. We see it with geopolitics and economics. When in fact every few years at least there’s something that makes everyone fear the end of the world.
2021 summer riots delayed by covid, I guess?
Probably just government planning going to pot as usual. Everything is delayed these days, ask the Scottish islands about ferries (and stand well back).
These riots are quite different from what we've seen in the recent past in England, as they are mainly not carried out by an ethnic minority who see themselves marginalised.
Therefore I expect they will have a much larger political impact i.e. the violence will impact policy whether we like it or not.
I think the evidence is that they are exactly the same in that they are being carried out by an ethnic minority (at least locally) who consider themselves marginalised and ignored by the establishment.
They look very like the pissed up, pilled up blokes who spend most Saturday afternoons from September to May looking for fights in and around football grounds.
Yes, because the BBC and other media outlets are very happy to show the angry white blokes, but don't want to show images of the Muslims with machetes for fear of "stoking tensions".
But that doesn’t work any more because everyone can see the Muslims with machetes on TwiX. Some of the videos have had several millions of views - possibly more impact than if they’d gone out on the TV
The lack of impartiality is astonishing. It was the same with the triple stabbing in Dublin when it happened. The media makes very clear when it is "far right" violence (knowing everyone correctly reads that as angry white guys) but skims over the background of the other side, or who committed the initial attack.
We are also paying the price for no major action ever happening over the tens of thousands of white children that got raped by a certain background of street grooming gangs. There was a brief moment of openness when the sheer scale of government failure became apparent, but it was quickly moved on from by the media. If the public don't trust the authorities to be fair, they sadly take action into their own hands.
There haven't been "tens of thousands of white children that got raped by a certain background of street grooming gangs". That's a Tommy Robinson talking point and the sort of disinformation that has stoked these riots. The problem is people like you.
The Labour MP for Rotherham reckoned it could have been a million:
She was wrong then and, as far as I know, hasn't put forth such claims recently.
1,400 girls were raped in and around of one town of 70,000. And yet you think it's plausible that that town represented 1/7th of all street grooming victims by such gangs. Even though we have had confirmed gangs of such type in two dozen towns, and that's just the ones we know about.
Yes. Its absolutely brain dead and no one buys this lying bullshit anymore. The fact is - as Sarah champion said - wherever they looked for this grooming they found it. And it went on over decades all over the country. “Tens of thousands” is a conservative estimate
Be careful, you will be accused of engaging in medieval pogroms in a minute.
Leon is only a hardcore islamophobe not the devil.
I am seriously thinking of standing down from PB as Sean's Islamophobic/anti immigrant bullshit is wearing me down.
Please don't. It's not just Leon, though, is it?
I've detected a notable shift in the amount of quasi-racist rhetoric on this site in recent weeks, combined with some quite unhinged attacks on the current government. I reckon it started on July 5th. Can't imagine why.
The BBC shouldn't be trying to alter their archives imo. They can't pretend that Edwards wasn't presenting the news nearly every day for about 15 years or whatever it was.
It's absurd. I occasionally like to rewatch the King's coronation. Are the BBC now saying I can never do that again?
They're doing it out of a pathetic weakness; a fear they'll be seen as protecting nonces and one of their own, with hysterical hyperbolic criticism to go with it, so are simply wiping the tapes "just in case".
It's pathetic.
Not wiping tapes, one hopes: just limiting access.
Why? I want to watch the Queens funeral and the King's Coronation, and now I can't? Two of the most significant constitutional events in the last 50 years?
Absurd. Let me make that decision please.
This is the repeating pattern - it used to be that cultural artefacts that were a bit "salacious" were hidden from public view unless you were given special access.
The BBC shouldn't be trying to alter their archives imo. They can't pretend that Edwards wasn't presenting the news nearly every day for about 15 years or whatever it was.
It's absurd. I occasionally like to rewatch the King's coronation. Are the BBC now saying I can never do that again?
They're doing it out of a pathetic weakness; a fear they'll be seen as protecting nonces and one of their own, with hysterical hyperbolic criticism to go with it, so are simply wiping the tapes "just in case".
It's pathetic.
Not wiping tapes, one hopes: just limiting access.
Why? I want to watch the Queens funeral and the King's Coronation, and now I can't? Two of the most significant constitutional events in the last 50 years?
The far right aren’t stopping - and neither are we. Yesterday showed when we come out in big numbers we can beat them back. And we need to continue that today:
Do the dick heads on the left need the dick heads on the right to feel relevant or what? A pox on both of them.
If this continues it is only going to become worse with extremes of right and left taking each other on on the streets and cities of our country
I believe the media are not helping and as an example Sky broadcast live from Southport every day last week and frankly, IMHO, the journalists would have been better returning to their studios and turning down the dial
Looking at the make up of the demonstrators what is worrying is just how many young people are at the forefront and, despite the widespread criticism which is justified, it needs to be asked why are these people so angry and, yes the police can arrest and imprison some of them but it looks like the genie is out of the bottle and serious questions how to address these issues need to be considered and not for mps to stand aloof in Westminster
Whats the longest we ever go without some summer riots? Seems to happen every 5-10 years.
Wikipedia implies it’s a quasi-decadal event, like the sunspot cycle.
Though I expect that page may be a bit selective. And that’s England. Add Northern Ireland and it’s somewhat more regular.
There’s definitely a tendency for people to think everything is much more dramatic and unprecedented than in the past. We see it with geopolitics and economics. When in fact every few years at least there’s something that makes everyone fear the end of the world.
2021 summer riots delayed by covid, I guess?
Probably just government planning going to pot as usual. Everything is delayed these days, ask the Scottish islands about ferries (and stand well back).
These riots are quite different from what we've seen in the recent past in England, as they are mainly not carried out by an ethnic minority who see themselves marginalised.
Therefore I expect they will have a much larger political impact i.e. the violence will impact policy whether we like it or not.
I think the evidence is that they are exactly the same in that they are being carried out by an ethnic minority (at least locally) who consider themselves marginalised and ignored by the establishment.
They look very like the pissed up, pilled up blokes who spend most Saturday afternoons from September to May looking for fights in and around football grounds.
Yes, because the BBC and other media outlets are very happy to show the angry white blokes, but don't want to show images of the Muslims with machetes for fear of "stoking tensions".
But that doesn’t work any more because everyone can see the Muslims with machetes on TwiX. Some of the videos have had several millions of views - possibly more impact than if they’d gone out on the TV
The lack of impartiality is astonishing. It was the same with the triple stabbing in Dublin when it happened. The media makes very clear when it is "far right" violence (knowing everyone correctly reads that as angry white guys) but skims over the background of the other side, or who committed the initial attack.
We are also paying the price for no major action ever happening over the tens of thousands of white children that got raped by a certain background of street grooming gangs. There was a brief moment of openness when the sheer scale of government failure became apparent, but it was quickly moved on from by the media. If the public don't trust the authorities to be fair, they sadly take action into their own hands.
There haven't been "tens of thousands of white children that got raped by a certain background of street grooming gangs". That's a Tommy Robinson talking point and the sort of disinformation that has stoked these riots. The problem is people like you.
The Labour MP for Rotherham reckoned it could have been a million:
She was wrong then and, as far as I know, hasn't put forth such claims recently.
1,400 girls were raped in and around of one town of 70,000. And yet you think it's plausible that that town represented 1/7th of all street grooming victims by such gangs. Even though we have had confirmed gangs of such type in two dozen towns, and that's just the ones we know about.
Yes. Its absolutely brain dead and no one buys this lying bullshit anymore. The fact is - as Sarah champion said - wherever they looked for this grooming they found it. And it went on over decades all over the country. “Tens of thousands” is a conservative estimate
Be careful, you will be accused of engaging in medieval pogroms in a minute.
Leon is only a hardcore islamophobe not the devil.
I am seriously thinking of standing down from PB as Sean's Islamophobic/anti immigrant bullshit is wearing me down.
Please don't. It's not just Leon, though, is it?
I've detected a notable shift in the amount of quasi-racist rhetoric on this site in recent weeks, combined with some quite unhinged attacks on the current government. I reckon it started on July 5th. Can't imagine why.
I can't understand *some* of the criticism of the government. I've said they've made a couple of wrong moves, but they've only been in power for a few weeks, and most of their mistakes (if they are mistakes...) will take months, years or decades to show.
Yet some are speaking as though they've had it already.
There's gonna be a lot of people crying for their mothers on that first night in the cell at the start of an eight year stretch.
Jordan @_jrdnp · 10m Young rioters in Middlesbrough live streaming themselves on TikTok smashing up new build homes and random cars
It's pretty obvious that the anti-immigration cranks who were at the initial protests have been joined by a lot of scrotes looking for trouble. As well as gawping idiots, some of whom seem to have brought their kids to watch the rioting.
Anybody who doesn't know the dynamics, history and supposed pretexts of murderous pogroms, in the UK and elsewhere, should be informing themselves, sharpish. Call this what it is.
Hmmm could @rcs1000 code up the following - When @Leon posts, his IP gets directed to a special version of PB. He sees his posts and everyone else's...
However, the rest of us don't actually see @Leon's posts. We see a list of comments free of all SeanTs....
The far right aren’t stopping - and neither are we. Yesterday showed when we come out in big numbers we can beat them back. And we need to continue that today:
Do the dick heads on the left need the dick heads on the right to feel relevant or what? A pox on both of them.
If this continues it is only going to become worse with extremes of right and left taking each other on on the streets and cities of our country
I believe the media are not helping and as an example Sky broadcast live from Southport every day last week and frankly, IMHO, the journalists would have been better returning to their studios and turning down the dial
Looking at the make up of the demonstrators what is worrying is just how many young people are at the forefront and, despite the widespread criticism which is justified, it needs to be asked why are these people so angry and, yes the police can arrest and imprison some of them but it looks like the genie is out of the bottle and serious questions how to address these issues need to be considered and not for mps to stand aloof in Westminster
Whats the longest we ever go without some summer riots? Seems to happen every 5-10 years.
Wikipedia implies it’s a quasi-decadal event, like the sunspot cycle.
Though I expect that page may be a bit selective. And that’s England. Add Northern Ireland and it’s somewhat more regular.
There’s definitely a tendency for people to think everything is much more dramatic and unprecedented than in the past. We see it with geopolitics and economics. When in fact every few years at least there’s something that makes everyone fear the end of the world.
2021 summer riots delayed by covid, I guess?
Probably just government planning going to pot as usual. Everything is delayed these days, ask the Scottish islands about ferries (and stand well back).
These riots are quite different from what we've seen in the recent past in England, as they are mainly not carried out by an ethnic minority who see themselves marginalised.
Therefore I expect they will have a much larger political impact i.e. the violence will impact policy whether we like it or not.
I think the evidence is that they are exactly the same in that they are being carried out by an ethnic minority (at least locally) who consider themselves marginalised and ignored by the establishment.
They look very like the pissed up, pilled up blokes who spend most Saturday afternoons from September to May looking for fights in and around football grounds.
Yes, because the BBC and other media outlets are very happy to show the angry white blokes, but don't want to show images of the Muslims with machetes for fear of "stoking tensions".
But that doesn’t work any more because everyone can see the Muslims with machetes on TwiX. Some of the videos have had several millions of views - possibly more impact than if they’d gone out on the TV
The lack of impartiality is astonishing. It was the same with the triple stabbing in Dublin when it happened. The media makes very clear when it is "far right" violence (knowing everyone correctly reads that as angry white guys) but skims over the background of the other side, or who committed the initial attack.
We are also paying the price for no major action ever happening over the tens of thousands of white children that got raped by a certain background of street grooming gangs. There was a brief moment of openness when the sheer scale of government failure became apparent, but it was quickly moved on from by the media. If the public don't trust the authorities to be fair, they sadly take action into their own hands.
There haven't been "tens of thousands of white children that got raped by a certain background of street grooming gangs". That's a Tommy Robinson talking point and the sort of disinformation that has stoked these riots. The problem is people like you.
The Labour MP for Rotherham reckoned it could have been a million:
She was wrong then and, as far as I know, hasn't put forth such claims recently.
1,400 girls were raped in and around of one town of 70,000. And yet you think it's plausible that that town represented 1/7th of all street grooming victims by such gangs. Even though we have had confirmed gangs of such type in two dozen towns, and that's just the ones we know about.
Yes. Its absolutely brain dead and no one buys this lying bullshit anymore. The fact is - as Sarah champion said - wherever they looked for this grooming they found it. And it went on over decades all over the country. “Tens of thousands” is a conservative estimate
Be careful, you will be accused of engaging in medieval pogroms in a minute.
Leon is only a hardcore islamophobe not the devil.
I am seriously thinking of standing down from PB as Sean's Islamophobic/anti immigrant bullshit is wearing me down.
Oh, please don't do that. It's your site. Ban him for a while if you've had enough. He's use to it and can amuse himself in France.
Ah yes, the classic preference of the cultural left. Deal with arguments you can't logically defeat by censorship.
It's a political betting blog not GB News.
And it has always been Mike's site and his rules and now TSE's.
Yes, and political betters are best informed by an open debate of all the relevant facts of a situation, so they can judge how situations are likely to develop. One of the best things about this forum is being two months ahead of the public debate on a topic, being well informed on who has the strongest arguments and how people of different political views are being influenced. Chasing everyone right of centre, which is what left-wingers want to do, is not helpful to those ends.
And also, trying to censor viewpoints you dislike is a generally twatty thing to do and you should be called out for it.
Leon is not exactly a good source for 'relevant facts' though. Bullshit, yes. Facts, no.
The far right aren’t stopping - and neither are we. Yesterday showed when we come out in big numbers we can beat them back. And we need to continue that today:
Do the dick heads on the left need the dick heads on the right to feel relevant or what? A pox on both of them.
If this continues it is only going to become worse with extremes of right and left taking each other on on the streets and cities of our country
I believe the media are not helping and as an example Sky broadcast live from Southport every day last week and frankly, IMHO, the journalists would have been better returning to their studios and turning down the dial
Looking at the make up of the demonstrators what is worrying is just how many young people are at the forefront and, despite the widespread criticism which is justified, it needs to be asked why are these people so angry and, yes the police can arrest and imprison some of them but it looks like the genie is out of the bottle and serious questions how to address these issues need to be considered and not for mps to stand aloof in Westminster
Whats the longest we ever go without some summer riots? Seems to happen every 5-10 years.
Wikipedia implies it’s a quasi-decadal event, like the sunspot cycle.
Though I expect that page may be a bit selective. And that’s England. Add Northern Ireland and it’s somewhat more regular.
There’s definitely a tendency for people to think everything is much more dramatic and unprecedented than in the past. We see it with geopolitics and economics. When in fact every few years at least there’s something that makes everyone fear the end of the world.
2021 summer riots delayed by covid, I guess?
Probably just government planning going to pot as usual. Everything is delayed these days, ask the Scottish islands about ferries (and stand well back).
These riots are quite different from what we've seen in the recent past in England, as they are mainly not carried out by an ethnic minority who see themselves marginalised.
Therefore I expect they will have a much larger political impact i.e. the violence will impact policy whether we like it or not.
I think the evidence is that they are exactly the same in that they are being carried out by an ethnic minority (at least locally) who consider themselves marginalised and ignored by the establishment.
They look very like the pissed up, pilled up blokes who spend most Saturday afternoons from September to May looking for fights in and around football grounds.
Yes, because the BBC and other media outlets are very happy to show the angry white blokes, but don't want to show images of the Muslims with machetes for fear of "stoking tensions".
But that doesn’t work any more because everyone can see the Muslims with machetes on TwiX. Some of the videos have had several millions of views - possibly more impact than if they’d gone out on the TV
The lack of impartiality is astonishing. It was the same with the triple stabbing in Dublin when it happened. The media makes very clear when it is "far right" violence (knowing everyone correctly reads that as angry white guys) but skims over the background of the other side, or who committed the initial attack.
We are also paying the price for no major action ever happening over the tens of thousands of white children that got raped by a certain background of street grooming gangs. There was a brief moment of openness when the sheer scale of government failure became apparent, but it was quickly moved on from by the media. If the public don't trust the authorities to be fair, they sadly take action into their own hands.
There haven't been "tens of thousands of white children that got raped by a certain background of street grooming gangs". That's a Tommy Robinson talking point and the sort of disinformation that has stoked these riots. The problem is people like you.
The Labour MP for Rotherham reckoned it could have been a million:
She was wrong then and, as far as I know, hasn't put forth such claims recently.
1,400 girls were raped in and around of one town of 70,000. And yet you think it's plausible that that town represented 1/7th of all street grooming victims by such gangs. Even though we have had confirmed gangs of such type in two dozen towns, and that's just the ones we know about.
Yes. Its absolutely brain dead and no one buys this lying bullshit anymore. The fact is - as Sarah champion said - wherever they looked for this grooming they found it. And it went on over decades all over the country. “Tens of thousands” is a conservative estimate
Be careful, you will be accused of engaging in medieval pogroms in a minute.
Leon is only a hardcore islamophobe not the devil.
I am seriously thinking of standing down from PB as Sean's Islamophobic/anti immigrant bullshit is wearing me down.
Oh, please don't do that. It's your site. Ban him for a while if you've had enough. He's use to it and can amuse himself in France.
Ah yes, the classic preference of the cultural left. Deal with arguments you can't logically defeat by censorship.
It's a political betting blog not GB News.
And it has always been Mike's site and his rules and now TSE's.
Yes, and political betters are best informed by an open debate of all the relevant facts of a situation, so they can judge how situations are likely to develop. One of the best things about this forum is being two months ahead of the public debate on a topic, being well informed on who has the strongest arguments and how people of different political views are being influenced. Chasing everyone right of centre, which is what left-wingers want to do, is not helpful to those ends.
And also, trying to censor viewpoints you dislike is a generally twatty thing to do and you should be called out for it.
Leon is not exactly a good source for 'relevant facts' though. Bullshit, yes. Facts, no.
Playing the man, not the ball. Address his arguments rather than try to ban. The reality is this forum has chased off the vast majority of right wing participants in recent years, leading to a rather stale centre-left group all agreeing with each other. It isn't a surprise that the first time a big hot topic debate happens, the ban calls start coming out. The centre-left really can't tolerate other perspectives existing.
The far right aren’t stopping - and neither are we. Yesterday showed when we come out in big numbers we can beat them back. And we need to continue that today:
Do the dick heads on the left need the dick heads on the right to feel relevant or what? A pox on both of them.
If this continues it is only going to become worse with extremes of right and left taking each other on on the streets and cities of our country
I believe the media are not helping and as an example Sky broadcast live from Southport every day last week and frankly, IMHO, the journalists would have been better returning to their studios and turning down the dial
Looking at the make up of the demonstrators what is worrying is just how many young people are at the forefront and, despite the widespread criticism which is justified, it needs to be asked why are these people so angry and, yes the police can arrest and imprison some of them but it looks like the genie is out of the bottle and serious questions how to address these issues need to be considered and not for mps to stand aloof in Westminster
Whats the longest we ever go without some summer riots? Seems to happen every 5-10 years.
Wikipedia implies it’s a quasi-decadal event, like the sunspot cycle.
Though I expect that page may be a bit selective. And that’s England. Add Northern Ireland and it’s somewhat more regular.
There’s definitely a tendency for people to think everything is much more dramatic and unprecedented than in the past. We see it with geopolitics and economics. When in fact every few years at least there’s something that makes everyone fear the end of the world.
2021 summer riots delayed by covid, I guess?
Probably just government planning going to pot as usual. Everything is delayed these days, ask the Scottish islands about ferries (and stand well back).
These riots are quite different from what we've seen in the recent past in England, as they are mainly not carried out by an ethnic minority who see themselves marginalised.
Therefore I expect they will have a much larger political impact i.e. the violence will impact policy whether we like it or not.
I think the evidence is that they are exactly the same in that they are being carried out by an ethnic minority (at least locally) who consider themselves marginalised and ignored by the establishment.
They look very like the pissed up, pilled up blokes who spend most Saturday afternoons from September to May looking for fights in and around football grounds.
Yes, because the BBC and other media outlets are very happy to show the angry white blokes, but don't want to show images of the Muslims with machetes for fear of "stoking tensions".
But that doesn’t work any more because everyone can see the Muslims with machetes on TwiX. Some of the videos have had several millions of views - possibly more impact than if they’d gone out on the TV
The lack of impartiality is astonishing. It was the same with the triple stabbing in Dublin when it happened. The media makes very clear when it is "far right" violence (knowing everyone correctly reads that as angry white guys) but skims over the background of the other side, or who committed the initial attack.
We are also paying the price for no major action ever happening over the tens of thousands of white children that got raped by a certain background of street grooming gangs. There was a brief moment of openness when the sheer scale of government failure became apparent, but it was quickly moved on from by the media. If the public don't trust the authorities to be fair, they sadly take action into their own hands.
There haven't been "tens of thousands of white children that got raped by a certain background of street grooming gangs". That's a Tommy Robinson talking point and the sort of disinformation that has stoked these riots. The problem is people like you.
The Labour MP for Rotherham reckoned it could have been a million:
She was wrong then and, as far as I know, hasn't put forth such claims recently.
1,400 girls were raped in and around of one town of 70,000. And yet you think it's plausible that that town represented 1/7th of all street grooming victims by such gangs. Even though we have had confirmed gangs of such type in two dozen towns, and that's just the ones we know about.
Yes. Its absolutely brain dead and no one buys this lying bullshit anymore. The fact is - as Sarah champion said - wherever they looked for this grooming they found it. And it went on over decades all over the country. “Tens of thousands” is a conservative estimate
Be careful, you will be accused of engaging in medieval pogroms in a minute.
Leon is only a hardcore islamophobe not the devil.
I am seriously thinking of standing down from PB as Sean's Islamophobic/anti immigrant bullshit is wearing me down.
Oh, please don't do that. It's your site. Ban him for a while if you've had enough. He's use to it and can amuse himself in France.
Ah yes, the classic preference of the cultural left. Deal with arguments you can't logically defeat by censorship.
It's a political betting blog not GB News.
And it has always been Mike's site and his rules and now TSE's.
Yes, and political betters are best informed by an open debate of all the relevant facts of a situation, so they can judge how situations are likely to develop. One of the best things about this forum is being two months ahead of the public debate on a topic, being well informed on who has the strongest arguments and how people of different political views are being influenced. Chasing everyone right of centre, which is what left-wingers want to do, is not helpful to those ends.
And also, trying to censor viewpoints you dislike is a generally twatty thing to do and you should be called out for it.
Leon is not exactly a good source for 'relevant facts' though. Bullshit, yes. Facts, no.
Playing the man, not the ball. Address his arguments rather than try to ban. The reality is this forum has chased off the vast majority of right wing participants in recent years, leading to a rather stale centre-left group all agreeing with each other. It isn't a surprise that the first time a big hot topic debate happens, the ban calls start coming out. The centre-left really can't tolerate other perspectives existing.
You cannot address the ball as he's got a hundred others on the pitch at the time. And often he's playing both goals at the same time.
As for left versus right: where would you put me on that spectrum?
" the ban calls start coming out."
Leon has been banned many times, in his various incarnations. He has also led directly to posters leaving (e.g. Tim). He adds to the site, but also detracts. He's a hard person to defend.
Reminder about the 1960 presidential vote: Because of the odd situation in Alabama, it is impossible to say for certain whether Nixon or Kennedy won the national popular vote.
(The Democrats in Alabama put up a mixed set of electors, some pledged to vote for Kennedy, some "unpledged". All of these electors won, so the majority of Alabama voters in that election simultaneously voted for Kennedy -- and against him.
I have been thinking about this problem for years, and have come to this tentative conclusion: The Democratic Party narrowly won the popular vote in 1960 -- and Nixon narrowly won the popular vote. Probably.
But I wouldn't argue with anyone who came to a different conclusion -- if they had a reasonable argument, with numbers.
I have read that Theodore White's "The Making of the President: 1960" later editions were changed to say Democratic Party, instead of Kennedy, when describing the popular vote.)
British airlines forced to fly planes to US for repairs because of Brexit rules ... The UK and EU, despite having largely identical safety rules, have two separate licensing systems for maintenance facilities. Following a two-year post-Brexit grace period which ended in 2023, any UK-registered aircraft cannot be legally repaired at EU-licensed facilities. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/08/03/british-airlines-forced-to-fly-planes-to-us-for-repairs-bec/ (£££)
Brexit or Boris? Either way, another item for Labour's to do list.
why don't we have repair facilities her in Britain. That is the real scandal of Brexit, we relied to heavily on European supply chains.
Relative size of markets. It's not worth investing in UK specific certifications for a small overall British fleet when UK facilities can no longer service the much larger EU fleets.
You know this is all EU protectionism? Equivalence is the rational approach - as the US and UK have accepted - but the EU has rejected because they don’t want to open their domestic markets to UK competition
The far right aren’t stopping - and neither are we. Yesterday showed when we come out in big numbers we can beat them back. And we need to continue that today:
Do the dick heads on the left need the dick heads on the right to feel relevant or what? A pox on both of them.
If this continues it is only going to become worse with extremes of right and left taking each other on on the streets and cities of our country
I believe the media are not helping and as an example Sky broadcast live from Southport every day last week and frankly, IMHO, the journalists would have been better returning to their studios and turning down the dial
Looking at the make up of the demonstrators what is worrying is just how many young people are at the forefront and, despite the widespread criticism which is justified, it needs to be asked why are these people so angry and, yes the police can arrest and imprison some of them but it looks like the genie is out of the bottle and serious questions how to address these issues need to be considered and not for mps to stand aloof in Westminster
Whats the longest we ever go without some summer riots? Seems to happen every 5-10 years.
Wikipedia implies it’s a quasi-decadal event, like the sunspot cycle.
Though I expect that page may be a bit selective. And that’s England. Add Northern Ireland and it’s somewhat more regular.
There’s definitely a tendency for people to think everything is much more dramatic and unprecedented than in the past. We see it with geopolitics and economics. When in fact every few years at least there’s something that makes everyone fear the end of the world.
2021 summer riots delayed by covid, I guess?
Probably just government planning going to pot as usual. Everything is delayed these days, ask the Scottish islands about ferries (and stand well back).
These riots are quite different from what we've seen in the recent past in England, as they are mainly not carried out by an ethnic minority who see themselves marginalised.
Therefore I expect they will have a much larger political impact i.e. the violence will impact policy whether we like it or not.
I think the evidence is that they are exactly the same in that they are being carried out by an ethnic minority (at least locally) who consider themselves marginalised and ignored by the establishment.
They look very like the pissed up, pilled up blokes who spend most Saturday afternoons from September to May looking for fights in and around football grounds.
Yes, because the BBC and other media outlets are very happy to show the angry white blokes, but don't want to show images of the Muslims with machetes for fear of "stoking tensions".
But that doesn’t work any more because everyone can see the Muslims with machetes on TwiX. Some of the videos have had several millions of views - possibly more impact than if they’d gone out on the TV
The lack of impartiality is astonishing. It was the same with the triple stabbing in Dublin when it happened. The media makes very clear when it is "far right" violence (knowing everyone correctly reads that as angry white guys) but skims over the background of the other side, or who committed the initial attack.
We are also paying the price for no major action ever happening over the tens of thousands of white children that got raped by a certain background of street grooming gangs. There was a brief moment of openness when the sheer scale of government failure became apparent, but it was quickly moved on from by the media. If the public don't trust the authorities to be fair, they sadly take action into their own hands.
There haven't been "tens of thousands of white children that got raped by a certain background of street grooming gangs". That's a Tommy Robinson talking point and the sort of disinformation that has stoked these riots. The problem is people like you.
The Labour MP for Rotherham reckoned it could have been a million:
She was wrong then and, as far as I know, hasn't put forth such claims recently.
1,400 girls were raped in and around of one town of 70,000. And yet you think it's plausible that that town represented 1/7th of all street grooming victims by such gangs. Even though we have had confirmed gangs of such type in two dozen towns, and that's just the ones we know about.
Yes. Its absolutely brain dead and no one buys this lying bullshit anymore. The fact is - as Sarah champion said - wherever they looked for this grooming they found it. And it went on over decades all over the country. “Tens of thousands” is a conservative estimate
Be careful, you will be accused of engaging in medieval pogroms in a minute.
Leon is only a hardcore islamophobe not the devil.
I am seriously thinking of standing down from PB as Sean's Islamophobic/anti immigrant bullshit is wearing me down.
Oh, please don't do that. It's your site. Ban him for a while if you've had enough. He's use to it and can amuse himself in France.
Ah yes, the classic preference of the cultural left. Deal with arguments you can't logically defeat by censorship.
It's a political betting blog not GB News.
And it has always been Mike's site and his rules and now TSE's.
Yes, and political betters are best informed by an open debate of all the relevant facts of a situation, so they can judge how situations are likely to develop. One of the best things about this forum is being two months ahead of the public debate on a topic, being well informed on who has the strongest arguments and how people of different political views are being influenced. Chasing everyone right of centre, which is what left-wingers want to do, is not helpful to those ends.
And also, trying to censor viewpoints you dislike is a generally twatty thing to do and you should be called out for it.
Leon is not exactly a good source for 'relevant facts' though. Bullshit, yes. Facts, no.
Playing the man, not the ball. Address his arguments rather than try to ban. The reality is this forum has chased off the vast majority of right wing participants in recent years, leading to a rather stale centre-left group all agreeing with each other. It isn't a surprise that the first time a big hot topic debate happens, the ban calls start coming out. The centre-left really can't tolerate other perspectives existing.
To do argument against racist rhetoric is admirable but it requires time and patience and is of questionable value since the rhetoric will just keep on coming.
No easy answers here. My personal preference is 'ignore' or 'mock' since banning imbues a gravitas which is unmerited.
Future generations will never enjoy his sonorous voice-over at Jimmy Savile's state funeral.
Which is ridiculous, archives are supposed to be objective and reflect the facts of the time and the record as it was. Not be brushed up because someone whose voice is present on it is no longer of benefit for the organisation's PR purposes
For once, I agree with you HYUFD. There's something a bit Soviet Russia about airbrushing history like this. It's a national archive, so at the very least there should be public debate before destroying bits if it.
The word 'archive' can be used in different ways in modern corporate speak. In some cases the main role of the corporate archivist is to destroy all records and paperwork that aren't strictly necessary under law or for operational reasons, lest they be have to be searched under legal demands for any evidence.
In the case of the BBC, is it really destroying the files or simply restricting public access?
Yes, legally the records manager can destroy any records not required under the organisation's retention schedule, whether for legal or operational reasons as you say. However some records will be transferred to the archives for historical research purposes for the archivist to maintain and these records include the ones with Huw Edwards on broadcasts of state events the BBC are now tampering with
The far right aren’t stopping - and neither are we. Yesterday showed when we come out in big numbers we can beat them back. And we need to continue that today:
Do the dick heads on the left need the dick heads on the right to feel relevant or what? A pox on both of them.
If this continues it is only going to become worse with extremes of right and left taking each other on on the streets and cities of our country
I believe the media are not helping and as an example Sky broadcast live from Southport every day last week and frankly, IMHO, the journalists would have been better returning to their studios and turning down the dial
Looking at the make up of the demonstrators what is worrying is just how many young people are at the forefront and, despite the widespread criticism which is justified, it needs to be asked why are these people so angry and, yes the police can arrest and imprison some of them but it looks like the genie is out of the bottle and serious questions how to address these issues need to be considered and not for mps to stand aloof in Westminster
Whats the longest we ever go without some summer riots? Seems to happen every 5-10 years.
Wikipedia implies it’s a quasi-decadal event, like the sunspot cycle.
Though I expect that page may be a bit selective. And that’s England. Add Northern Ireland and it’s somewhat more regular.
There’s definitely a tendency for people to think everything is much more dramatic and unprecedented than in the past. We see it with geopolitics and economics. When in fact every few years at least there’s something that makes everyone fear the end of the world.
2021 summer riots delayed by covid, I guess?
Probably just government planning going to pot as usual. Everything is delayed these days, ask the Scottish islands about ferries (and stand well back).
These riots are quite different from what we've seen in the recent past in England, as they are mainly not carried out by an ethnic minority who see themselves marginalised.
Therefore I expect they will have a much larger political impact i.e. the violence will impact policy whether we like it or not.
I think the evidence is that they are exactly the same in that they are being carried out by an ethnic minority (at least locally) who consider themselves marginalised and ignored by the establishment.
They look very like the pissed up, pilled up blokes who spend most Saturday afternoons from September to May looking for fights in and around football grounds.
Yes, because the BBC and other media outlets are very happy to show the angry white blokes, but don't want to show images of the Muslims with machetes for fear of "stoking tensions".
But that doesn’t work any more because everyone can see the Muslims with machetes on TwiX. Some of the videos have had several millions of views - possibly more impact than if they’d gone out on the TV
The police statemqent that 'nobody was stabbed in Stoke' yesterday ignores the eyewitness accounts of what actually happened, that a bunch of white youths were throwing bricks when a bunch of 'Muslim' youths came down the street and squared up to them, with at least one white youth being hit with a blunt object, possibly a hammer. 'Nobody was stabbed in Stoke' sounds disingenuous in that context.
There are other videos with Muslim men walking around with swords and baseball bats. There is video of a police officer telling Muslims to 'leave their weapons in the mosque'. As I said yesterday, they may be coming to the defence of their community, but the mainstream media spin that yesterday was just 'far right agitators' doesn't quite add up. I know a few Jewish people who patrolled their community after Jewish businesses were smashed up after October 7th. As far as I'm aware, none of them came out tooled up.
While my own view is that far right types like Tommy Robinson have been allowed to stoke up hate on social media, the mainstream media is also deliberately suppressing the very sectarian flavour - hat tip to MisterBedforshire - of the recent violence. We now have groups of people in the UK who are diametrically opposed in their race/religion and hate the other side.
Pinning the blame squarely on the white working class, when what we are seeing is at least a decade or more of failing multiculturalism, declining living standards, increased competition for social services, etc, is not going to cool things down, particularly in the context of the unprecedented mass migration of the last two or three years.
People are watching videos that don't fit the mainstream media narrative, some of them self-explanatory, others clearly pandering to those with a far right (or far left) worldview, but amplified by the social media algorithm that rewards controversy and polarisation. As long as that situation continues, and as long as successive governments continue to ignore legitimate concerns about migration and ignore the forming of parallel communities where people don't integrate at all, I fear there is more trouble ahead.
The only people pinning the blame for the rioting on the white working class are edgy metropolitan right wing commentators who assume that white working class people are racist, violent, intolerant and thick.
We do need to separate the people perpetrating vandalism and violence from those marching to register a protest. We seem very able to do this when BLM or the Gaza protestors have flashes of violence but less so here. It is the latter group we need to listen to. The former group deserve everything they get. I tend to agree with Dan Hannan that SKS's public utterances about the protests have just cast them all in the right wing 'deplorable' basket together, but I haven't heard everything he's said on the topic.
Starmer very specifically separated protest from violence:
Let me turn now to the actions of a tiny, mindless minority in our society. Because in the aftermath of this attack the community of Southport had to suffer twice. A gang of thugs, got on trains and busses went to a community that is not their own - a community grieving the most horrific tragedy - and then proceeded to throw bricks at police officers. Police officers who just 24 hours earlier had been having to deal with an attack on children in their community. Their community. And make no mistake, whether it’s in Southport, London – or Hartlepool… These people are showing our country exactly who they are. Mosques targeted because they are Mosques. Flares thrown at the statue of Winston Churchill. A Nazi salute at the Cenotaph. And so I’ve just held a meeting with senior police and law enforcement leaders, where we’ve resolved to show who we are. A country – that will not allow understandable fear to curdle into division and hate in our communities. And that will not permit, under any circumstances a breakdown in law and order on our streets. Because let’s be very clear about this. It’s not protest. It’s not legitimate. It’s crime. Violent disorder. An assault on the rule of law and the execution of justice.
I genuinely struggle to see what the problem is with this.
I see two issues with the speech. Firstly, as I said, it makes no attempt to separate those legitimately excerising their right to gather and protest - rights that I believe the Labour movement was founded upon, with those who were there to vandalise property and assault people. Secondly, I think it was simply inaccurate. The arrests made by the police have included many (if not an overwhelming majority) of Southport locals. So it wasn't just bussed in thugs (though I am sure they were there too), it was overheated locals.
A more well-judged speech might have been to say that whilst anger at the horrifying crimes was understandable and that he understood concerns around recent migration, he needed time to work on these issues, and for now, given that protests were being hijacked by a lawless minority, he urged people to stay at home, and punish Labour at the ballot box in the next election if it had failed on immigration and security matters.
The BBC shouldn't be trying to alter their archives imo. They can't pretend that Edwards wasn't presenting the news nearly every day for about 15 years or whatever it was.
It's absurd. I occasionally like to rewatch the King's coronation. Are the BBC now saying I can never do that again?
They're doing it out of a pathetic weakness; a fear they'll be seen as protecting nonces and one of their own, with hysterical hyperbolic criticism to go with it, so are simply wiping the tapes "just in case".
It's pathetic.
Only a few years ago, we would all have bought the commemorative DVDs of these significant cultural events.
Who could be opposed to better integration? But what does it look like and how do we get there?
How do we prepare the UK population and economy for the substantial pain a major reduction in immigration levels will entail?
Many of the cheap, shitty jobs are going to go.
The robots are already coming for the fruit pickers.
In many of the chain lunch places, rows of assistants at the tills have been replaced with rows of big screen ordering systems.
A relative does care assistance in a private hospital. They are involved in a trial for a Japanese robot that lifts people in/out of bed and other moves. Apparently arse wiping is on the way.
The biggest barrier is the ingrained belief that there is a right to infinite, minimum wage (or below) labour. As opposed to productivity investment.
FPT…
It has become trendy to say that AI is all fur coat and no knickers. I remember the same being said about the internet in general as the froth blew off dotcom.
The reality of it, is that by the time of the next election it should be plain to far more people just how impactful these technologies will be, most particularly machine learning incorporated into robots with humanoid form factor.
We are not going to have a labour shortage in the 2030s, far from it. We should be thinking right now about what that means.
"... the time of the next election it should be plain to far more people just how impactful these technologies will be"
It's quite likely that the AI hype will prove to be a bubble, and lots of tech investors will lose a heck of a lot of money. That's certainly an impact.
There's a tangible value in AI already. It may not be obvious to the general public but it is there.
LLM's are increasingly displacing search engines. That's a very big deal in itself. About 40% of my search inquires now go through Claude. No one wants to waste time and AI is faster for many simple queries.
Additionally, I can use it to create code. That's a big deal also since you essentially triple the number of people who can code in the general population.
I can use it to create content: images, music etc, simple videos. This is invaluable for content creation. That makes a lot of people with something to contribute able to compete on social media.
Comments
And you're also saying that due to being thick as bricks they thought Brexit meant less immigration from Africa and Asia.
I think there's much truth in that. Still, done now. No point re-litigating.
Eg 1000 in Telford alone
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telford_child_sexual_exploitation_scandal
The scenes in Rotherham aren’t a protest, they aren’t even a far right riot, they are an ongoing attempt to murder the men, women & children inside by burning them alive.
The stench of these days will hang around those who incited and justified it for the rest of their lives.
And the keyboard warriors who cheered them on...
Like the 2011 riots this might well be symptomatic of something or other, but really to most of the participants (and spectators) it's just a chance for a ruck. The weather's hot.
Racist scum have whipped up a nasty atmosphere.
You seem intent on giving them an excuse.
When was the last time you visited Rotherham?
There are significant problems with child sexual exploitation. The government's own report found that most grooming gangs are white, while also noting problems with poor quality data. You are just posting Tommy Robinson propaganda. Your behaviour does nothing to help those at risk of grooming.
It’s a bit like PJ O’Rourkes comment on the Iraqi Republican Guard - “How do we know if any of them are still Republicans?”
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/apr/11/looter-jailed-croydon-fire-riots
This is where mere facts can be Wrong. What I Feelz is The Truth.
Imposing mere facts on people is Aggression Against Their Feelings.
@DPJHodges
·
1m
People are currently attempting to burn down a hotel housing migrants. This is not a “protest”. It’s racist thuggery on a par with what we saw in Nazi Germany in the 1930’s. We need unequivocal condemnation and forceful police intervention on a commensurate scale.
Connor Tomlinson
@Con_Tomlinson
Even this conciliatory statement by Donna Jones misreads the public mood
It is not a matter of illegal or "irregular" migration
Both the Southport stabber and the subsequent Islamic settlements targeted by the riots were imported legally into Britain
Rubber-stamping citizenship, as Starmer and Rayner have promised to do, will not stop the indigenous population from feeling culturally displaced from their homeland
A houseguest is not entitled to rearrange the furniture against the wishes of the homeowners
The Southport murders, though not an Islsmic terror attack (as far as we all know), have become a lightning rod for public discontent about Islam and immigration more broadly for this exact reason
Mass immigration of all kinds must end
Foreign criminals must be deported
Islam must not be appeased by laws which privilege the feelings of Muslims over the rights of an Englishman to freely speak his mind
@lowles_nick
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33m
These protesters know that there are people inside the hotel. This is nothing less than attempted murder…
Right-wing thugs respond to this incitement by attacking asylum seekers, or indeed anybody with a skin colour that they interpret could constitute that of an asylum seeker.
It's not difficult, and is fuck all to do with grooming gangs, which is a separate story unless you're mendacious enough to conflate the two.
For example, in Rochdale, a similar town an hour away, grooming is 'categorically' still happening.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12963855/amp/Rochdale-grooming-gangs-report-officials-failed-prioritise-children-didnt-act-evidence.html
Or nation-wide, police still blame young girls for being groomed by gangs. Oh, and nobody is bothering to improve the data to find out an accurate view of grooming gangs. Almost like they don't want an accurate view to be known publicly.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/dec/08/police-still-victim-blaming-child-grooming-gang-cases-watchdog-finds-inspection-england-and-wales
Nick Lowles
@lowles_nick
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5m
Now trouble breaking out in Middlesbrough. Far right mob are fighting with police
“Tragedy struck as one resident, Richard Mannington Bowes, was killed by a blow to his head as he was putting a fire out in a bin.”
https://www.ealingtimes.co.uk/news/14607525.i-just-got-out-of-there-it-was-so-scary-ealing-five-years-on-from-the-london-riots/
So you've not been in Rotherham for a while, so stop talking about that which you know not.
Just like setting fire to a hotel.
Only murderous scum do things like that.
Submarines by Perun.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPd_AL004mE
They're doing it out of a pathetic weakness; a fear they'll be seen as protecting nonces and one of their own, with hysterical hyperbolic criticism to go with it, so are simply wiping the tapes "just in case".
It's pathetic.
(((Dan Hodges)))
@DPJHodges
·
6h
There's no political justification for the disorder we've seen. But if people want to get into the blame game, these are the facts. The Tories were in power for 14 years. Labour have been in power for 4 weeks. Blaming Keir Starmer and Yvette Cooper for this is just ridiculous.
https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/opinions/2024/2/23/the-uks-grooming-gangs-and-the-lessons-never-learned
And as Leon has linked, there were a thousand victims in Telford. Oh, and you repeat the deliberately misleading crap about "most abusers were white". Even ignoring the fact that 80% of the population are white, these numbers deliberately conflated all types of child grooming so as to obscure the reality and demographic involved in street grooming.
Just like the attacks on Andrew Norfolk, this is a case of people launching verbal slurs on those drawing attention to an outrageous scandal and cover-up, because the facts are inconvenient to your view of reality.
Less than one month in and it's already very clear: this Labour government is not going to be a happy one.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_Solingen_arson_attack
So what is the "lot that has gone on" in Rotherham, that contravenes the facts I have put forward?
And it has always been Mike's site and his rules and now TSE's.
Edit: And you also 'liked' my original post! Eh?
Incidentally, the only time I have seen overt racism towards Mrs J was our first night on a trip to Germany.
A hotel is on fire. With people in it. And a Shadow Cabinet member says this?
Lord Davies of Gower
@Byron_Davies
But Labour blocked the Rwanda Bill 130+ times, of course it’s politically justified!
And also, trying to censor viewpoints you dislike is a generally twatty thing to do and you should be called out for it.
Absurd. Let me make that decision please.
https://x.com/hugorifkind/status/1820093646156271960
I've detected a notable shift in the amount of quasi-racist rhetoric on this site in recent weeks, combined with some quite unhinged attacks on the current government. I reckon it started on July 5th. Can't imagine why.
Jordan
@_jrdnp
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10m
Young rioters in Middlesbrough live streaming themselves on TikTok smashing up new build homes and random cars
We also have the long and illustrious history of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damnatio_memoriae
There is nothing new, just variations on the old.
NEW THREAD
Yet some are speaking as though they've had it already.
SKS is not Truss.
Thank God.
Hmmm could @rcs1000 code up the following - When @Leon posts, his IP gets directed to a special version of PB. He sees his posts and everyone else's...
However, the rest of us don't actually see @Leon's posts. We see a list of comments free of all SeanTs....
As for left versus right: where would you put me on that spectrum?
" the ban calls start coming out."
Leon has been banned many times, in his various incarnations. He has also led directly to posters leaving (e.g. Tim). He adds to the site, but also detracts. He's a hard person to defend.
(The Democrats in Alabama put up a mixed set of electors, some pledged to vote for Kennedy, some "unpledged". All of these electors won, so the majority of Alabama voters in that election simultaneously voted for Kennedy -- and against him.
I have been thinking about this problem for years, and have come to this tentative conclusion: The Democratic Party narrowly won the popular vote in 1960 -- and Nixon narrowly won the popular vote. Probably.
But I wouldn't argue with anyone who came to a different conclusion -- if they had a reasonable argument, with numbers.
I have read that Theodore White's "The Making of the President: 1960" later editions were changed to say Democratic Party, instead of Kennedy, when describing the popular vote.)
No easy answers here. My personal preference is 'ignore' or 'mock' since banning imbues a gravitas which is unmerited.
Wasn’t it controversial at the time?
A more well-judged speech might have been to say that whilst anger at the horrifying crimes was understandable and that he understood concerns around recent migration, he needed time to work on these issues, and for now, given that protests were being hijacked by a lawless minority, he urged people to stay at home, and punish Labour at the ballot box in the next election if it had failed on immigration and security matters.
LLM's are increasingly displacing search engines. That's a very big deal in itself. About 40% of my search inquires now go through Claude. No one wants to waste time and AI is faster for many simple queries.
Additionally, I can use it to create code. That's a big deal also since you essentially triple the number of people who can code in the general population.
I can use it to create content: images, music etc, simple videos. This is invaluable for content creation. That makes a lot of people with something to contribute able to compete on social media.