In this discussion people who wouldn't Green with a gun to their head tell the Greens to adopt a different set of policies that they also wouldn't vote for.
Get to fuck, the lot of you.
I've enjoyed all the concern about Abbott too - Starmer is 20 points ahead largely because he's ruthless.
The Arteta of UK politics.
Ah yes, Arteta, well known for taking the top prize every season. A real winner. How many titles is it now ?
Like Starmer, he hasn't won yet.
So you think he will fall at the final hurdle too and be a well celebrated loser.
I think Arteta will get his title. But no complacency,
@JulianGallie What policies do each age group want to see in a manifesto?
Younger voters
Love the fact that immigration is an issue for the age group who need the immigrants most, because no-one else wants to look after old people because of how little that type of work pays.
Rather worrying that 'living' figures quite highly as a standalone.
'cost' is same size as 'living' in all four, so looks as if the actual phrase used is 'cost of living' and the algorithm has split it up and binned the 'of' (sorry Biggles).
Word clouds usually suck but that is riveting. Why do the youngest cohort (and nobody else) want truth, and what about? And note how cozzie livs completely evaporates for 65 plus and even pensions gets subordinate billing. Perhaps they really are as rich as everyone says.
The obvious question is where are 'woke' and 'trans', the key issues - as we all surely agree - of this election?
More pointedly, apart from the under 34s, “immigration” is prominent in every cloud
And yet where is the debate? The country has just experienced the most profound spate of immigration in its history. 2 MILLION people in 3 years. What do Labour intend to do about this? Why aren’t the Tories being challenged on this? Is it the national intention for this to continue? If not why not? If so, how do we house and educate and look after them all? Our public services are already breaking under the strain
It’s like this enormous issue does not exist. Madness
It’s still rather astonishing that the young can’t see the correlation between population increases and cost of housing increases.
Indeed. I believe it’s our education system. Anti racism and Not Talking About Immigration has been drummed into them from the age of 5 so they don’t even have the language or bandwidth to talk about it or even conceive that it is an issue
Plus they can see the intense social pain inflicted on anyone that tries to talk about it, so their aversion is logical
Comparisons with education in the communist era of Eastern Europe are not entirely inapt. The guides here in Moldova have been explaining to me how they were brainwashed as kids to believe in the Soviet system even when it was clearly failing
You are a fucking dolt.
It is successive governments not building enough houses or schools or hospitals or whatnot that is the issue. Not immigration. The education and its detested focus on "anti-racism" has been hugely successful and means that the vast majority of our children are colour-blind (and XXX-blind also). Not everyone but broadly.
They - and you - should be campaigning for the government to be able to accommodate us all, not stopping some of us from being here.
That said, if you could do us all a favour and stay in the undoubted paradise that is Moldova rather than ever coming to the UK that would mean one more immigrant family able to move in to NW1. Hurrah!
Not enough housing for whom?
Everyone.
Everyone plus 2 million over the next 3 years?
You can leave if you think it might help.
You see how easily you slip into thoughts about excluding people due to competition for resources? The level of immigration is the biggest threat to the colour-blind (or anything-blind) society you want to protect.
We can never build enough for 'everyone' if 'everyone' continues to expand at such a rapid rate.
I was more thinking of self-exclusion.
We sort of can build enough for "everyone" unless you have an idea to restrict population growth. What was the stat the other day? Some ridiculously small percentage of the UK is built upon.
But that's not the point. The point, as small children from Hartlepool understand - and our very own Dura upthread pointed out - is that it is wholly within our power to cut immigration. But government after government has refused to do so. Governments are elected on a popular mandate to do stuff and we quite simply haven't asked ours in recent times to prioritise restricting immigration.
Richard Tice was on the radio this morning saying legal and illegal immigration needs attention so come July 4th we will see if the Great British Public, with a golden opportunity finally to do something about it, agrees with him and votes for Reform.
I wouldn't say "government after government has refused to do so". Immigration hasn't been consistently high for decades. See figure 2 at https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/long-term-international-migration-flows-to-and-from-the-uk/ It was not particularly high under Thatcher/Major. It rose somewhat under New Labour, dropped a little bit with the global crash, inched higher under Cameron, a bit lower under May, collapsed because of COVID-19, and then went stratospheric after Brexit. So, that reflects both global trends and government policies. When people talk about millions of immigrants, that's a post-Brexit thing. The EU allowed for labour mobility, but people came and went. After Brexit, the pattern of immigration is very different.
The vast majority of immigration even pre-Brexit was from outside the EU. EU membership was a scapegoat because free movement was used as a scapegoat for not restricting migration more generally.
There has clearly been a change in immigration numbers and pattern since we Brexited. The really big increases are since Brexit. Feel free to offer an explanation for what has happened. I suggest freedom of movement meant labour shortages could be filled without as much long term immigration.
I hate to say it but (gulp) I can see the sense in the Reform policy of a higher employer’s NI rate for immigrant labour. If really needed, and the sums add up, they will still come, but it moves the incentive towards growing talent.
I am sure Reform has many other bad policies I can continue to look down upon.
@JulianGallie What policies do each age group want to see in a manifesto?
Younger voters
Love the fact that immigration is an issue for the age group who need the immigrants most, because no-one else wants to look after old people because of how little that type of work pays.
Rather worrying that 'living' figures quite highly as a standalone.
'cost' is same size as 'living' in all four, so looks as if the actual phrase used is 'cost of living' and the algorithm has split it up and binned the 'of' (sorry Biggles).
Word clouds usually suck but that is riveting. Why do the youngest cohort (and nobody else) want truth, and what about? And note how cozzie livs completely evaporates for 65 plus and even pensions gets subordinate billing. Perhaps they really are as rich as everyone says.
The obvious question is where are 'woke' and 'trans', the key issues - as we all surely agree - of this election?
More pointedly, apart from the under 34s, “immigration” is prominent in every cloud
And yet where is the debate? The country has just experienced the most profound spate of immigration in its history. 2 MILLION people in 3 years. What do Labour intend to do about this? Why aren’t the Tories being challenged on this? Is it the national intention for this to continue? If not why not? If so, how do we house and educate and look after them all? Our public services are already breaking under the strain
It’s like this enormous issue does not exist. Madness
It’s still rather astonishing that the young can’t see the correlation between population increases and cost of housing increases.
Indeed. I believe it’s our education system. Anti racism and Not Talking About Immigration has been drummed into them from the age of 5 so they don’t even have the language or bandwidth to talk about it or even conceive that it is an issue
Plus they can see the intense social pain inflicted on anyone that tries to talk about it, so their aversion is logical
Comparisons with education in the communist era of Eastern Europe are not entirely inapt. The guides here in Moldova have been explaining to me how they were brainwashed as kids to believe in the Soviet system even when it was clearly failing
You are a fucking dolt.
It is successive governments not building enough houses or schools or hospitals or whatnot that is the issue. Not immigration. The education and its detested focus on "anti-racism" has been hugely successful and means that the vast majority of our children are colour-blind (and XXX-blind also). Not everyone but broadly.
They - and you - should be campaigning for the government to be able to accommodate us all, not stopping some of us from being here.
That said, if you could do us all a favour and stay in the undoubted paradise that is Moldova rather than ever coming to the UK that would mean one more immigrant family able to move in to NW1. Hurrah!
Not enough housing for whom?
Everyone.
Everyone plus 2 million over the next 3 years?
You can leave if you think it might help.
You see how easily you slip into thoughts about excluding people due to competition for resources? The level of immigration is the biggest threat to the colour-blind (or anything-blind) society you want to protect.
We can never build enough for 'everyone' if 'everyone' continues to expand at such a rapid rate.
I was more thinking of self-exclusion.
We sort of can build enough for "everyone" unless you have an idea to restrict population growth. What was the stat the other day? Some ridiculously small percentage of the UK is built upon.
But that's not the point. The point, as small children from Hartlepool understand - and our very own Dura upthread pointed out - is that it is wholly within our power to cut immigration. But government after government has refused to do so. Governments are elected on a popular mandate to do stuff and we quite simply haven't asked ours in recent times to prioritise restricting immigration.
Richard Tice was on the radio this morning saying legal and illegal immigration needs attention so come July 4th we will see if the Great British Public, with a golden opportunity finally to do something about it, agrees with him and votes for Reform.
I wouldn't say "government after government has refused to do so". Immigration hasn't been consistently high for decades. See figure 2 at https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/long-term-international-migration-flows-to-and-from-the-uk/ It was not particularly high under Thatcher/Major. It rose somewhat under New Labour, dropped a little bit with the global crash, inched higher under Cameron, a bit lower under May, collapsed because of COVID-19, and then went stratospheric after Brexit. So, that reflects both global trends and government policies. When people talk about millions of immigrants, that's a post-Brexit thing. The EU allowed for labour mobility, but people came and went. After Brexit, the pattern of immigration is very different.
The vast majority of immigration even pre-Brexit was from outside the EU. EU membership was a scapegoat because free movement was used as a scapegoat for not restricting migration more generally.
There has clearly been a change in immigration numbers and pattern since we Brexited. The really big increases are since Brexit. Feel free to offer an explanation for what has happened. I suggest freedom of movement meant labour shortages could be filled without as much long term immigration.
The reason that non-EU migration exploded since Brexit is that it coincided with an extremely liberal government being elected, combined with the schemes for people from Ukraine and Hong Kong.
A government effectively being run by Mark Francois and Bill Cash I don't think can be described as "liberal".
All the "liberal" Tories fucked off after/over Brexit.
You're confusing One Nation/patrician with liberal. Johnson was radically liberal on immigration.
• Renationalising our NHS • £70bn Wealth Tax • 500,000 Council Homes • £16 per hour min wage • Universal Basic Income • Rent Controls • Abolishing Tuition Fees • Recognition of Palestine • Free Secondary School Meals • Axe Two-Child Cap
That's why I will Vote 💚
Looking forward to NHS brand Ibuprofen.
4 & 5, in combination, would simply end a rather large chunk of jobs in the U.K.
Assuming a £12k UBI, that’s £40k a year for the lowest paid job.
The whole point of a UBI is that you can abolish the minimum wage and all the means-tested benefits, tax credits etc, along with the huge bureaucracy that supports the welfare state.
Indeed. A UBI plus a minimum wage is a farce.
Why? You could argue that a minimum wage incentivises companies to keep innovating and investing. Otherwise, they essentially get cheap subsidised labour from the government.
For me the main benefit of a UBI is that people will be happier to take on risks like starting a small business.
Because it makes a whole swathe of jobs uneconomic.
I was gonna do a long impassioned comment about our blindness on migration but fuck it. The debate is so warped and stupid it’s not even worth it
Also I have just been to the world’s second largest wine cellar
And here you go, you utter, utter bellend.
With time peoples' attitudes become more progressive. Why this shouldn't happen with 2nd, 3rd, 4th generation muslims (or orthodox Jews) is not at all clear.
People's attitudes do not always become more progressive with time. You're extrapolating too much from your own lifetime.
Maybe. In Afghan they haven't (in the sixties the women were going around in mini-skirts). But they have in western liberal democracies and we are in a western liberal democracies.
In Britain, the number of 18-24 year olds who support the death penalty for cases of multiple murder has risen to 56%.
Not 100% sure what that proves - my point to our Moldovan emigrant is that he quoted a stat about Muslims disapproving of homosexuality. I simply posted a survey that shows that non-trivial numbers of anglicans and catholics think the same way.
Now if we could abolish religion then we might be moving in the right direction.
@JulianGallie What policies do each age group want to see in a manifesto?
Younger voters
Love the fact that immigration is an issue for the age group who need the immigrants most, because no-one else wants to look after old people because of how little that type of work pays.
Rather worrying that 'living' figures quite highly as a standalone.
'cost' is same size as 'living' in all four, so looks as if the actual phrase used is 'cost of living' and the algorithm has split it up and binned the 'of' (sorry Biggles).
Word clouds usually suck but that is riveting. Why do the youngest cohort (and nobody else) want truth, and what about? And note how cozzie livs completely evaporates for 65 plus and even pensions gets subordinate billing. Perhaps they really are as rich as everyone says.
The obvious question is where are 'woke' and 'trans', the key issues - as we all surely agree - of this election?
More pointedly, apart from the under 34s, “immigration” is prominent in every cloud
And yet where is the debate? The country has just experienced the most profound spate of immigration in its history. 2 MILLION people in 3 years. What do Labour intend to do about this? Why aren’t the Tories being challenged on this? Is it the national intention for this to continue? If not why not? If so, how do we house and educate and look after them all? Our public services are already breaking under the strain
It’s like this enormous issue does not exist. Madness
It’s still rather astonishing that the young can’t see the correlation between population increases and cost of housing increases.
Indeed. I believe it’s our education system. Anti racism and Not Talking About Immigration has been drummed into them from the age of 5 so they don’t even have the language or bandwidth to talk about it or even conceive that it is an issue
Plus they can see the intense social pain inflicted on anyone that tries to talk about it, so their aversion is logical
Comparisons with education in the communist era of Eastern Europe are not entirely inapt. The guides here in Moldova have been explaining to me how they were brainwashed as kids to believe in the Soviet system even when it was clearly failing
You are a fucking dolt.
It is successive governments not building enough houses or schools or hospitals or whatnot that is the issue. Not immigration. The education and its detested focus on "anti-racism" has been hugely successful and means that the vast majority of our children are colour-blind (and XXX-blind also). Not everyone but broadly.
They - and you - should be campaigning for the government to be able to accommodate us all, not stopping some of us from being here.
That said, if you could do us all a favour and stay in the undoubted paradise that is Moldova rather than ever coming to the UK that would mean one more immigrant family able to move in to NW1. Hurrah!
Not enough housing for whom?
Everyone.
Everyone plus 2 million over the next 3 years?
You can leave if you think it might help.
You see how easily you slip into thoughts about excluding people due to competition for resources? The level of immigration is the biggest threat to the colour-blind (or anything-blind) society you want to protect.
We can never build enough for 'everyone' if 'everyone' continues to expand at such a rapid rate.
I was more thinking of self-exclusion.
We sort of can build enough for "everyone" unless you have an idea to restrict population growth. What was the stat the other day? Some ridiculously small percentage of the UK is built upon.
But that's not the point. The point, as small children from Hartlepool understand - and our very own Dura upthread pointed out - is that it is wholly within our power to cut immigration. But government after government has refused to do so. Governments are elected on a popular mandate to do stuff and we quite simply haven't asked ours in recent times to prioritise restricting immigration.
Richard Tice was on the radio this morning saying legal and illegal immigration needs attention so come July 4th we will see if the Great British Public, with a golden opportunity finally to do something about it, agrees with him and votes for Reform.
I wouldn't say "government after government has refused to do so". Immigration hasn't been consistently high for decades. See figure 2 at https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/long-term-international-migration-flows-to-and-from-the-uk/ It was not particularly high under Thatcher/Major. It rose somewhat under New Labour, dropped a little bit with the global crash, inched higher under Cameron, a bit lower under May, collapsed because of COVID-19, and then went stratospheric after Brexit. So, that reflects both global trends and government policies. When people talk about millions of immigrants, that's a post-Brexit thing. The EU allowed for labour mobility, but people came and went. After Brexit, the pattern of immigration is very different.
The vast majority of immigration even pre-Brexit was from outside the EU. EU membership was a scapegoat because free movement was used as a scapegoat for not restricting migration more generally.
There has clearly been a change in immigration numbers and pattern since we Brexited. The really big increases are since Brexit. Feel free to offer an explanation for what has happened. I suggest freedom of movement meant labour shortages could be filled without as much long term immigration.
The reason that non-EU migration exploded since Brexit is that it coincided with an extremely liberal government being elected, combined with the schemes for people from Ukraine and Hong Kong.
A government effectively being run by Mark Francois and Bill Cash I don't think can be described as "liberal".
All the "liberal" Tories fucked off after/over Brexit.
Rather depends what you mean by “liberal”. It’s hard not to see Boris as very socially liberal. Probably the most liberal PM since Blair. And even that’s a fight.
@JulianGallie What policies do each age group want to see in a manifesto?
Younger voters
Love the fact that immigration is an issue for the age group who need the immigrants most, because no-one else wants to look after old people because of how little that type of work pays.
Rather worrying that 'living' figures quite highly as a standalone.
'cost' is same size as 'living' in all four, so looks as if the actual phrase used is 'cost of living' and the algorithm has split it up and binned the 'of' (sorry Biggles).
Word clouds usually suck but that is riveting. Why do the youngest cohort (and nobody else) want truth, and what about? And note how cozzie livs completely evaporates for 65 plus and even pensions gets subordinate billing. Perhaps they really are as rich as everyone says.
The obvious question is where are 'woke' and 'trans', the key issues - as we all surely agree - of this election?
More pointedly, apart from the under 34s, “immigration” is prominent in every cloud
And yet where is the debate? The country has just experienced the most profound spate of immigration in its history. 2 MILLION people in 3 years. What do Labour intend to do about this? Why aren’t the Tories being challenged on this? Is it the national intention for this to continue? If not why not? If so, how do we house and educate and look after them all? Our public services are already breaking under the strain
It’s like this enormous issue does not exist. Madness
It’s still rather astonishing that the young can’t see the correlation between population increases and cost of housing increases.
Indeed. I believe it’s our education system. Anti racism and Not Talking About Immigration has been drummed into them from the age of 5 so they don’t even have the language or bandwidth to talk about it or even conceive that it is an issue
Plus they can see the intense social pain inflicted on anyone that tries to talk about it, so their aversion is logical
Comparisons with education in the communist era of Eastern Europe are not entirely inapt. The guides here in Moldova have been explaining to me how they were brainwashed as kids to believe in the Soviet system even when it was clearly failing
You are a fucking dolt.
It is successive governments not building enough houses or schools or hospitals or whatnot that is the issue. Not immigration. The education and its detested focus on "anti-racism" has been hugely successful and means that the vast majority of our children are colour-blind (and XXX-blind also). Not everyone but broadly.
They - and you - should be campaigning for the government to be able to accommodate us all, not stopping some of us from being here.
That said, if you could do us all a favour and stay in the undoubted paradise that is Moldova rather than ever coming to the UK that would mean one more immigrant family able to move in to NW1. Hurrah!
Not enough housing for whom?
Everyone.
Everyone plus 2 million over the next 3 years?
You can leave if you think it might help.
You see how easily you slip into thoughts about excluding people due to competition for resources? The level of immigration is the biggest threat to the colour-blind (or anything-blind) society you want to protect.
We can never build enough for 'everyone' if 'everyone' continues to expand at such a rapid rate.
I was more thinking of self-exclusion.
We sort of can build enough for "everyone" unless you have an idea to restrict population growth. What was the stat the other day? Some ridiculously small percentage of the UK is built upon.
But that's not the point. The point, as small children from Hartlepool understand - and our very own Dura upthread pointed out - is that it is wholly within our power to cut immigration. But government after government has refused to do so. Governments are elected on a popular mandate to do stuff and we quite simply haven't asked ours in recent times to prioritise restricting immigration.
Richard Tice was on the radio this morning saying legal and illegal immigration needs attention so come July 4th we will see if the Great British Public, with a golden opportunity finally to do something about it, agrees with him and votes for Reform.
I wouldn't say "government after government has refused to do so". Immigration hasn't been consistently high for decades. See figure 2 at https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/long-term-international-migration-flows-to-and-from-the-uk/ It was not particularly high under Thatcher/Major. It rose somewhat under New Labour, dropped a little bit with the global crash, inched higher under Cameron, a bit lower under May, collapsed because of COVID-19, and then went stratospheric after Brexit. So, that reflects both global trends and government policies. When people talk about millions of immigrants, that's a post-Brexit thing. The EU allowed for labour mobility, but people came and went. After Brexit, the pattern of immigration is very different.
The vast majority of immigration even pre-Brexit was from outside the EU. EU membership was a scapegoat because free movement was used as a scapegoat for not restricting migration more generally.
There has clearly been a change in immigration numbers and pattern since we Brexited. The really big increases are since Brexit. Feel free to offer an explanation for what has happened. I suggest freedom of movement meant labour shortages could be filled without as much long term immigration.
The reason that non-EU migration exploded since Brexit is that it coincided with an extremely liberal government being elected, combined with the schemes for people from Ukraine and Hong Kong.
A government effectively being run by Mark Francois and Bill Cash I don't think can be described as "liberal".
All the "liberal" Tories fucked off after/over Brexit.
You're confusing One Nation/patrician with liberal. Johnson was radically liberal on immigration.
While the Greek Coastguard literally sank a ship full of migrants, the U.K. block booked the kind of three star hotels that have the treadmills next to the indoor pool.
I was gonna do a long impassioned comment about our blindness on migration but fuck it. The debate is so warped and stupid it’s not even worth it
Also I have just been to the world’s second largest wine cellar
And here you go, you utter, utter bellend.
With time peoples' attitudes become more progressive. Why this shouldn't happen with 2nd, 3rd, 4th generation muslims (or orthodox Jews) is not at all clear.
People's attitudes do not always become more progressive with time. You're extrapolating too much from your own lifetime.
Maybe. In Afghan they haven't (in the sixties the women were going around in mini-skirts). But they have in western liberal democracies and we are in a western liberal democracies.
In Britain, the number of 18-24 year olds who support the death penalty for cases of multiple murder has risen to 56%.
Not 100% sure what that proves - my point to our Moldovan emigrant is that he quoted a stat about Muslims disapproving of homosexuality. I simply posted a survey that shows that non-trivial numbers of anglicans and catholics think the same way.
Now if we could abolish religion then we might be moving in the right direction.
Even Richard Dawkins has lost his faith in that prescription.
• Renationalising our NHS • £70bn Wealth Tax • 500,000 Council Homes • £16 per hour min wage • Universal Basic Income • Rent Controls • Abolishing Tuition Fees • Recognition of Palestine • Free Secondary School Meals • Axe Two-Child Cap
That's why I will Vote 💚
Looking forward to NHS brand Ibuprofen.
4 & 5, in combination, would simply end a rather large chunk of jobs in the U.K.
Assuming a £12k UBI, that’s £40k a year for the lowest paid job.
The whole point of a UBI is that you can abolish the minimum wage and all the means-tested benefits, tax credits etc, along with the huge bureaucracy that supports the welfare state.
Indeed. A UBI plus a minimum wage is a farce.
Why? You could argue that a minimum wage incentivises companies to keep innovating and investing. Otherwise, they essentially get cheap subsidised labour from the government.
For me the main benefit of a UBI is that people will be happier to take on risks like starting a small business.
Because it makes a whole swathe of jobs uneconomic.
Isn't that just the original argument against minimum wage?
I was gonna do a long impassioned comment about our blindness on migration but fuck it. The debate is so warped and stupid it’s not even worth it
Also I have just been to the world’s second largest wine cellar
And here you go, you utter, utter bellend.
With time peoples' attitudes become more progressive. Why this shouldn't happen with 2nd, 3rd, 4th generation muslims (or orthodox Jews) is not at all clear.
People's attitudes do not always become more progressive with time. You're extrapolating too much from your own lifetime.
Maybe. In Afghan they haven't (in the sixties the women were going around in mini-skirts). But they have in western liberal democracies and we are in a western liberal democracies.
No they haven’t. Again you’re provably wrong
Here’s the latest poll on Muslim attitudes. More 18-24 year olds than 55+ year olds want to make it illegal to show the prophet Mohammad in any form. Younger Muslims are much more anti Isreal and anti Jewish. And so on
The attitudes to homosexuality have barely budged in a decade. A 50/50 split on whether it should be illegal. Large minorities or actual majorities want sharia law across the UK, compulsory halal food everywhere, more traditional roles for women
It’s deeply depressing. This is what we are importing. This is incompatible with the liberal western democracy you proclaim to cherish
I can only conclude that you are literary too dumb and incurious to grasp all this, because I don’t believe you are that intellectually dishonest
I was gonna do a long impassioned comment about our blindness on migration but fuck it. The debate is so warped and stupid it’s not even worth it
Also I have just been to the world’s second largest wine cellar
And here you go, you utter, utter bellend.
With time peoples' attitudes become more progressive. Why this shouldn't happen with 2nd, 3rd, 4th generation muslims (or orthodox Jews) is not at all clear.
People's attitudes do not always become more progressive with time. You're extrapolating too much from your own lifetime.
Maybe. In Afghan they haven't (in the sixties the women were going around in mini-skirts). But they have in western liberal democracies and we are in a western liberal democracies.
In Britain, the number of 18-24 year olds who support the death penalty for cases of multiple murder has risen to 56%.
Not 100% sure what that proves - my point to our Moldovan emigrant is that he quoted a stat about Muslims disapproving of homosexuality. I simply posted a survey that shows that non-trivial numbers of anglicans and catholics think the same way.
Now if we could abolish religion then we might be moving in the right direction.
I was gonna do a long impassioned comment about our blindness on migration but fuck it. The debate is so warped and stupid it’s not even worth it
Also I have just been to the world’s second largest wine cellar
And here you go, you utter, utter bellend.
With time peoples' attitudes become more progressive. Why this shouldn't happen with 2nd, 3rd, 4th generation muslims (or orthodox Jews) is not at all clear.
People's attitudes do not always become more progressive with time. You're extrapolating too much from your own lifetime.
Maybe. In Afghan they haven't (in the sixties the women were going around in mini-skirts). But they have in western liberal democracies and we are in a western liberal democracies.
In Britain, the number of 18-24 year olds who support the death penalty for cases of multiple murder has risen to 56%.
What's interesting about those charts is how consistent they are across age profiles. Only 65+ is significantly different. And they are almost identical by gender. Which surprised me. I do think a referendum is smart politics for the Tories. If not now then in Opposition. I wouldn't have to give it a second thought.
I was gonna do a long impassioned comment about our blindness on migration but fuck it. The debate is so warped and stupid it’s not even worth it
Also I have just been to the world’s second largest wine cellar
And here you go, you utter, utter bellend.
With time peoples' attitudes become more progressive. Why this shouldn't happen with 2nd, 3rd, 4th generation muslims (or orthodox Jews) is not at all clear.
People's attitudes do not always become more progressive with time. You're extrapolating too much from your own lifetime.
Maybe. In Afghan they haven't (in the sixties the women were going around in mini-skirts). But they have in western liberal democracies and we are in a western liberal democracies.
In Britain, the number of 18-24 year olds who support the death penalty for cases of multiple murder has risen to 56%.
@JulianGallie What policies do each age group want to see in a manifesto?
Younger voters
Love the fact that immigration is an issue for the age group who need the immigrants most, because no-one else wants to look after old people because of how little that type of work pays.
Rather worrying that 'living' figures quite highly as a standalone.
'cost' is same size as 'living' in all four, so looks as if the actual phrase used is 'cost of living' and the algorithm has split it up and binned the 'of' (sorry Biggles).
Word clouds usually suck but that is riveting. Why do the youngest cohort (and nobody else) want truth, and what about? And note how cozzie livs completely evaporates for 65 plus and even pensions gets subordinate billing. Perhaps they really are as rich as everyone says.
The obvious question is where are 'woke' and 'trans', the key issues - as we all surely agree - of this election?
More pointedly, apart from the under 34s, “immigration” is prominent in every cloud
And yet where is the debate? The country has just experienced the most profound spate of immigration in its history. 2 MILLION people in 3 years. What do Labour intend to do about this? Why aren’t the Tories being challenged on this? Is it the national intention for this to continue? If not why not? If so, how do we house and educate and look after them all? Our public services are already breaking under the strain
It’s like this enormous issue does not exist. Madness
It’s still rather astonishing that the young can’t see the correlation between population increases and cost of housing increases.
Indeed. I believe it’s our education system. Anti racism and Not Talking About Immigration has been drummed into them from the age of 5 so they don’t even have the language or bandwidth to talk about it or even conceive that it is an issue
Plus they can see the intense social pain inflicted on anyone that tries to talk about it, so their aversion is logical
Comparisons with education in the communist era of Eastern Europe are not entirely inapt. The guides here in Moldova have been explaining to me how they were brainwashed as kids to believe in the Soviet system even when it was clearly failing
You are a fucking dolt.
It is successive governments not building enough houses or schools or hospitals or whatnot that is the issue. Not immigration. The education and its detested focus on "anti-racism" has been hugely successful and means that the vast majority of our children are colour-blind (and XXX-blind also). Not everyone but broadly.
They - and you - should be campaigning for the government to be able to accommodate us all, not stopping some of us from being here.
That said, if you could do us all a favour and stay in the undoubted paradise that is Moldova rather than ever coming to the UK that would mean one more immigrant family able to move in to NW1. Hurrah!
Not enough housing for whom?
Everyone.
Everyone plus 2 million over the next 3 years?
You can leave if you think it might help.
You see how easily you slip into thoughts about excluding people due to competition for resources? The level of immigration is the biggest threat to the colour-blind (or anything-blind) society you want to protect.
We can never build enough for 'everyone' if 'everyone' continues to expand at such a rapid rate.
I was more thinking of self-exclusion.
We sort of can build enough for "everyone" unless you have an idea to restrict population growth. What was the stat the other day? Some ridiculously small percentage of the UK is built upon.
But that's not the point. The point, as small children from Hartlepool understand - and our very own Dura upthread pointed out - is that it is wholly within our power to cut immigration. But government after government has refused to do so. Governments are elected on a popular mandate to do stuff and we quite simply haven't asked ours in recent times to prioritise restricting immigration.
Richard Tice was on the radio this morning saying legal and illegal immigration needs attention so come July 4th we will see if the Great British Public, with a golden opportunity finally to do something about it, agrees with him and votes for Reform.
I wouldn't say "government after government has refused to do so". Immigration hasn't been consistently high for decades. See figure 2 at https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/long-term-international-migration-flows-to-and-from-the-uk/ It was not particularly high under Thatcher/Major. It rose somewhat under New Labour, dropped a little bit with the global crash, inched higher under Cameron, a bit lower under May, collapsed because of COVID-19, and then went stratospheric after Brexit. So, that reflects both global trends and government policies. When people talk about millions of immigrants, that's a post-Brexit thing. The EU allowed for labour mobility, but people came and went. After Brexit, the pattern of immigration is very different.
The vast majority of immigration even pre-Brexit was from outside the EU. EU membership was a scapegoat because free movement was used as a scapegoat for not restricting migration more generally.
There has clearly been a change in immigration numbers and pattern since we Brexited. The really big increases are since Brexit. Feel free to offer an explanation for what has happened. I suggest freedom of movement meant labour shortages could be filled without as much long term immigration.
The reason that non-EU migration exploded since Brexit is that it coincided with an extremely liberal government being elected, combined with the schemes for people from Ukraine and Hong Kong.
Boris Johnson took his finger out the dyke.
The general asylum right to any who make it here worldwide needs to end and, instead, we need to democratically choose how many and from where- like we did for Ukraine and HK.
That's where this battle is going next. Because it's really atm another form of free movement tempered by a little bit of cash and physical intrepidness.
I was gonna do a long impassioned comment about our blindness on migration but fuck it. The debate is so warped and stupid it’s not even worth it
Also I have just been to the world’s second largest wine cellar
And here you go, you utter, utter bellend.
With time peoples' attitudes become more progressive. Why this shouldn't happen with 2nd, 3rd, 4th generation muslims (or orthodox Jews) is not at all clear.
People's attitudes do not always become more progressive with time. You're extrapolating too much from your own lifetime.
Maybe. In Afghan they haven't (in the sixties the women were going around in mini-skirts). But they have in western liberal democracies and we are in a western liberal democracies.
No they haven’t. Again you’re provably wrong
Here’s the latest poll on Muslim attitudes. More 18-24 year olds than 55+ year olds want to make it illegal to show the prophet Mohammad in any form. Younger Muslims are much more anti Isreal and anti Jewish. And so on
The attitudes to homosexuality have barely budged in a decade. A 50/50 split on whether it should be illegal. Large minorities or actual majorities want sharia law across the UK, compulsory halal food everywhere, more traditional roles for women
It’s deeply depressing. This is what we are importing. This is incompatible with the liberal western democracy you proclaim to cherish
I can only conclude that you are literary too dumb and incurious to grasp all this, because I don’t believe you are that intellectually dishonest
What worse is that those of us over a certain age will ensure their views are marginalised. That’s the right thing to do but will radicalise them further, and 30 years from now there will be an issue.
I do worry about the current 18-21 demographic when it’s in power.
I somehow ended up on a Christian mailing list and their emails are getting more apocalyptic by the day.
The UK has fallen prey to chaos. Consider – a hopelessly fractured and no longer fit for purpose NHS; economic shambles and the ever-looming threat of financial collapse; the disintegration of the family and accompanying epidemic of mental illness; a country increasingly having to give way to immigrants; an unprecedented climate of antisemitism and racial intimidation; growing violence on our streets … and, to cap it all, we are warned that we shall soon be a nation at war. Indeed, some say that war has already started.
But while politicians come up with endless plans and strategies that they promise will make everything right, the real question – that they are failing dismally to address, let alone answer – is why are we in such a mess in the first place? And unless we answer that, we can’t hope to find a solution.
To Christians the answer is clear, even if, to many, it remains unacceptable. Because of the choices we have made over the last century, God has withdrawn His hand of protection, and we are now a nation under judgement. Unless and until we repent, there will be no improvement. Indeed, things will get worse. The general election called for 4th July comes then at a crucial time. Without any shadow of doubt, our nation is at a tipping point and, if we jump the wrong way, we shall spill over into disaster. So what must we do, and who can lead us through this time of societal collapse and threatened war? Who, or what, can save us?
I was hoping that the answer was TRUSS but it turns out that it's God.
And whose side is He on?
The meek.
But they'll still have to pay IHT.
I can see why you weren't a scriptwriter for Life of Brian.
• Renationalising our NHS • £70bn Wealth Tax • 500,000 Council Homes • £16 per hour min wage • Universal Basic Income • Rent Controls • Abolishing Tuition Fees • Recognition of Palestine • Free Secondary School Meals • Axe Two-Child Cap
That's why I will Vote 💚
Looking forward to NHS brand Ibuprofen.
4 & 5, in combination, would simply end a rather large chunk of jobs in the U.K.
Assuming a £12k UBI, that’s £40k a year for the lowest paid job.
The whole point of a UBI is that you can abolish the minimum wage and all the means-tested benefits, tax credits etc, along with the huge bureaucracy that supports the welfare state.
Indeed. A UBI plus a minimum wage is a farce.
Its also why for all its theoretical positives, it won't work in the real world, because politicians will quickly go oh we need UBI+ for those that live in London, UBI++ for those from generational poor backgrounds....
Being tolerant of views you don't agree with has definitely declined over the last few years. If that's one of the definitions of being progressive, it's in decline.
• Renationalising our NHS • £70bn Wealth Tax • 500,000 Council Homes • £16 per hour min wage • Universal Basic Income • Rent Controls • Abolishing Tuition Fees • Recognition of Palestine • Free Secondary School Meals • Axe Two-Child Cap
That's why I will Vote 💚
Looking forward to NHS brand Ibuprofen.
4 & 5, in combination, would simply end a rather large chunk of jobs in the U.K.
Assuming a £12k UBI, that’s £40k a year for the lowest paid job.
The whole point of a UBI is that you can abolish the minimum wage and all the means-tested benefits, tax credits etc, along with the huge bureaucracy that supports the welfare state.
Indeed. A UBI plus a minimum wage is a farce.
Why? You could argue that a minimum wage incentivises companies to keep innovating and investing. Otherwise, they essentially get cheap subsidised labour from the government.
For me the main benefit of a UBI is that people will be happier to take on risks like starting a small business.
Because it makes a whole swathe of jobs uneconomic.
Isn't that just the original argument against minimum wage?
The minimum wage does make jobs uneconomic. The balance between the societal benefits of higher wages be reduced employment is the key.
A UBI plus minimum wage makes a serious percentage of the jobs non economic, over night.
I was gonna do a long impassioned comment about our blindness on migration but fuck it. The debate is so warped and stupid it’s not even worth it
Also I have just been to the world’s second largest wine cellar
And here you go, you utter, utter bellend.
With time peoples' attitudes become more progressive. Why this shouldn't happen with 2nd, 3rd, 4th generation muslims (or orthodox Jews) is not at all clear.
People's attitudes do not always become more progressive with time. You're extrapolating too much from your own lifetime.
Maybe. In Afghan they haven't (in the sixties the women were going around in mini-skirts). But they have in western liberal democracies and we are in a western liberal democracies.
In Britain, the number of 18-24 year olds who support the death penalty for cases of multiple murder has risen to 56%.
What's interesting about those charts is how consistent they are across age profiles. Only 65+ is significantly different. And they are almost identical by gender. Which surprised me. I do think a referendum is smart politics for the Tories. If not now then in Opposition. I wouldn't have to give it a second thought.
I am totally opposed to the death penalty and it’s one of the few issues I would deeply care about if it went to a vote. But if the public ends up in favour then there should be a vote, and my side should make the arguments and try to win.
Introducing the death penalty would also presumably mean leaving the ECHR (and maybe the OECD - though the U.S. is a member)?
I was gonna do a long impassioned comment about our blindness on migration but fuck it. The debate is so warped and stupid it’s not even worth it
Also I have just been to the world’s second largest wine cellar
And here you go, you utter, utter bellend.
With time peoples' attitudes become more progressive. Why this shouldn't happen with 2nd, 3rd, 4th generation muslims (or orthodox Jews) is not at all clear.
People's attitudes do not always become more progressive with time. You're extrapolating too much from your own lifetime.
Maybe. In Afghan they haven't (in the sixties the women were going around in mini-skirts). But they have in western liberal democracies and we are in a western liberal democracies.
In Britain, the number of 18-24 year olds who support the death penalty for cases of multiple murder has risen to 56%.
• Renationalising our NHS • £70bn Wealth Tax • 500,000 Council Homes • £16 per hour min wage • Universal Basic Income • Rent Controls • Abolishing Tuition Fees • Recognition of Palestine • Free Secondary School Meals • Axe Two-Child Cap
That's why I will Vote 💚
Looking forward to NHS brand Ibuprofen.
4 & 5, in combination, would simply end a rather large chunk of jobs in the U.K.
Assuming a £12k UBI, that’s £40k a year for the lowest paid job.
The whole point of a UBI is that you can abolish the minimum wage and all the means-tested benefits, tax credits etc, along with the huge bureaucracy that supports the welfare state.
Indeed. A UBI plus a minimum wage is a farce.
Why? You could argue that a minimum wage incentivises companies to keep innovating and investing. Otherwise, they essentially get cheap subsidised labour from the government.
For me the main benefit of a UBI is that people will be happier to take on risks like starting a small business.
Because it makes a whole swathe of jobs uneconomic.
Isn't that just the original argument against minimum wage?
The minimum wage does make jobs uneconomic. The balance between the societal benefits of higher wages be reduced employment is the key.
A UBI plus minimum wage makes a serious percentage of the jobs non economic, over night.
Or possibly creates hyper-inflation? I would still want to eat out and go to the pub, but the prices would go through the roof so I’d want paying more. And then the rate would increase to match - cue vicious cycle.
Doesn't seem helpful for Labour to be having this row but what do I know!? I do worry Starmer has miscalculated here...
It wasn't Starmer who miscalculated - someone has been both leaking and playing games to the extent that Diane's quiet retirement is no longer on the table...
I was gonna do a long impassioned comment about our blindness on migration but fuck it. The debate is so warped and stupid it’s not even worth it
Also I have just been to the world’s second largest wine cellar
And here you go, you utter, utter bellend.
With time peoples' attitudes become more progressive. Why this shouldn't happen with 2nd, 3rd, 4th generation muslims (or orthodox Jews) is not at all clear.
People's attitudes do not always become more progressive with time. You're extrapolating too much from your own lifetime.
Maybe. In Afghan they haven't (in the sixties the women were going around in mini-skirts). But they have in western liberal democracies and we are in a western liberal democracies.
No they haven’t. Again you’re provably wrong
Here’s the latest poll on Muslim attitudes. More 18-24 year olds than 55+ year olds want to make it illegal to show the prophet Mohammad in any form. Younger Muslims are much more anti Isreal and anti Jewish. And so on
The attitudes to homosexuality have barely budged in a decade. A 50/50 split on whether it should be illegal. Large minorities or actual majorities want sharia law across the UK, compulsory halal food everywhere, more traditional roles for women
It’s deeply depressing. This is what we are importing. This is incompatible with the liberal western democracy you proclaim to cherish
I can only conclude that you are literary too dumb and incurious to grasp all this, because I don’t believe you are that intellectually dishonest
What worse is that those of us over a certain age will ensure their views are marginalised. That’s the right thing to do but will radicalise them further, and 30 years from now there will be an issue.
I do worry about the current 18-21 demographic when it’s in power.
I’m 97% certain young white Britons will shift firmly to the right in the next decade - as they are doing across Europe. We are not immune to this trend we are merely 5-10 years behind it
Personally I’d prefer it if that wasn’t inevitable. If we hadn’t had so much immigration and we hadn’t pursued insane woke policies and if we hadn’t made young white men in particular such a target we wouldn’t have banked all this trouble. But we have and we did and the interest is slowly but surely accruing
When Labour fails to change the world, which they will, what happens then?
I was gonna do a long impassioned comment about our blindness on migration but fuck it. The debate is so warped and stupid it’s not even worth it
Also I have just been to the world’s second largest wine cellar
And here you go, you utter, utter bellend.
With time peoples' attitudes become more progressive. Why this shouldn't happen with 2nd, 3rd, 4th generation muslims (or orthodox Jews) is not at all clear.
People's attitudes do not always become more progressive with time. You're extrapolating too much from your own lifetime.
Maybe. In Afghan they haven't (in the sixties the women were going around in mini-skirts). But they have in western liberal democracies and we are in a western liberal democracies.
In Britain, the number of 18-24 year olds who support the death penalty for cases of multiple murder has risen to 56%.
What's interesting about those charts is how consistent they are across age profiles. Only 65+ is significantly different. And they are almost identical by gender. Which surprised me. I do think a referendum is smart politics for the Tories. If not now then in Opposition. I wouldn't have to give it a second thought.
Nor I would - the risk of killing someone who is innocent is way too great...
• Renationalising our NHS • £70bn Wealth Tax • 500,000 Council Homes • £16 per hour min wage • Universal Basic Income • Rent Controls • Abolishing Tuition Fees • Recognition of Palestine • Free Secondary School Meals • Axe Two-Child Cap
That's why I will Vote 💚
Looking forward to NHS brand Ibuprofen.
4 & 5, in combination, would simply end a rather large chunk of jobs in the U.K.
Assuming a £12k UBI, that’s £40k a year for the lowest paid job.
The whole point of a UBI is that you can abolish the minimum wage and all the means-tested benefits, tax credits etc, along with the huge bureaucracy that supports the welfare state.
Indeed. A UBI plus a minimum wage is a farce.
Its also why for all its theoretical positives, it won't work in the real world, because politicians will quickly go oh we need UBI+ for those that live in London, UBI++ for those from generational poor backgrounds....
How much are they up to for reparations in California now ? Last thing I recall a million dollars was considered not nearly enough
I was gonna do a long impassioned comment about our blindness on migration but fuck it. The debate is so warped and stupid it’s not even worth it
Also I have just been to the world’s second largest wine cellar
And here you go, you utter, utter bellend.
With time peoples' attitudes become more progressive. Why this shouldn't happen with 2nd, 3rd, 4th generation muslims (or orthodox Jews) is not at all clear.
People's attitudes do not always become more progressive with time. You're extrapolating too much from your own lifetime.
Maybe. In Afghan they haven't (in the sixties the women were going around in mini-skirts). But they have in western liberal democracies and we are in a western liberal democracies.
In Britain, the number of 18-24 year olds who support the death penalty for cases of multiple murder has risen to 56%.
What's interesting about those charts is how consistent they are across age profiles. Only 65+ is significantly different. And they are almost identical by gender. Which surprised me. I do think a referendum is smart politics for the Tories. If not now then in Opposition. I wouldn't have to give it a second thought.
Nor I would - the risk of killing someone who is innocent is way too great...
The Post Office scandal should be enough to put anyone off the idea.
In much happier news I am now lodged in an ancient Bessarabian farmhouse overlooking the Dniester river and the farmer who owns the place wants me to taste every single form of alcohol he has made in the last 30 years
Moldova is great. They get so few tourists they basically have a festival if one shows up
I was gonna do a long impassioned comment about our blindness on migration but fuck it. The debate is so warped and stupid it’s not even worth it
Also I have just been to the world’s second largest wine cellar
And here you go, you utter, utter bellend.
With time peoples' attitudes become more progressive. Why this shouldn't happen with 2nd, 3rd, 4th generation muslims (or orthodox Jews) is not at all clear.
People's attitudes do not always become more progressive with time. You're extrapolating too much from your own lifetime.
Maybe. In Afghan they haven't (in the sixties the women were going around in mini-skirts). But they have in western liberal democracies and we are in a western liberal democracies.
In Britain, the number of 18-24 year olds who support the death penalty for cases of multiple murder has risen to 56%.
I was gonna do a long impassioned comment about our blindness on migration but fuck it. The debate is so warped and stupid it’s not even worth it
Also I have just been to the world’s second largest wine cellar
And here you go, you utter, utter bellend.
With time peoples' attitudes become more progressive. Why this shouldn't happen with 2nd, 3rd, 4th generation muslims (or orthodox Jews) is not at all clear.
People's attitudes do not always become more progressive with time. You're extrapolating too much from your own lifetime.
Maybe. In Afghan they haven't (in the sixties the women were going around in mini-skirts). But they have in western liberal democracies and we are in a western liberal democracies.
No they haven’t. Again you’re provably wrong
Here’s the latest poll on Muslim attitudes. More 18-24 year olds than 55+ year olds want to make it illegal to show the prophet Mohammad in any form. Younger Muslims are much more anti Isreal and anti Jewish. And so on
The attitudes to homosexuality have barely budged in a decade. A 50/50 split on whether it should be illegal. Large minorities or actual majorities want sharia law across the UK, compulsory halal food everywhere, more traditional roles for women
It’s deeply depressing. This is what we are importing. This is incompatible with the liberal western democracy you proclaim to cherish
I can only conclude that you are literary too dumb and incurious to grasp all this, because I don’t believe you are that intellectually dishonest
What worse is that those of us over a certain age will ensure their views are marginalised. That’s the right thing to do but will radicalise them further, and 30 years from now there will be an issue.
I do worry about the current 18-21 demographic when it’s in power.
I’m 97% certain young white Britons will shift firmly to the right in the next decade - as they are doing across Europe. We are not immune to this trend we are merely 5-10 years behind it
Personally I’d prefer it if that wasn’t inevitable. If we hadn’t had so much immigration and we hadn’t pursued insane woke policies and if we hadn’t made young white men in particular such a target we wouldn’t have banked all this trouble. But we have and we did and the interest is slowly but surely accruing
When Labour fails to change the world, which they will, what happens then?
Oh I agree with that. One of the main reasons I caution people to go slow on things like Net Zero and Trans-rights (on both of which there’s a perfectly sensible way of meeting people half way and getting consensus) is that if you push these things too far then there will be an equal and opposite reaction, and it won’t be pretty.
I was gonna do a long impassioned comment about our blindness on migration but fuck it. The debate is so warped and stupid it’s not even worth it
Also I have just been to the world’s second largest wine cellar
And here you go, you utter, utter bellend.
With time peoples' attitudes become more progressive. Why this shouldn't happen with 2nd, 3rd, 4th generation muslims (or orthodox Jews) is not at all clear.
People's attitudes do not always become more progressive with time. You're extrapolating too much from your own lifetime.
Maybe. In Afghan they haven't (in the sixties the women were going around in mini-skirts). But they have in western liberal democracies and we are in a western liberal democracies.
No they haven’t. Again you’re provably wrong
Here’s the latest poll on Muslim attitudes. More 18-24 year olds than 55+ year olds want to make it illegal to show the prophet Mohammad in any form. Younger Muslims are much more anti Isreal and anti Jewish. And so on
The attitudes to homosexuality have barely budged in a decade. A 50/50 split on whether it should be illegal. Large minorities or actual majorities want sharia law across the UK, compulsory halal food everywhere, more traditional roles for women
It’s deeply depressing. This is what we are importing. This is incompatible with the liberal western democracy you proclaim to cherish
I can only conclude that you are literary too dumb and incurious to grasp all this, because I don’t believe you are that intellectually dishonest
Eyeballing it, it seems that around 30-40% of anglicans and catholics have the same views.
Doesn't seem helpful for Labour to be having this row but what do I know!? I do worry Starmer has miscalculated here...
It wasn't Starmer who miscalculated - someone has been both leaking and playing games to the extent that Diane's quiet retirement is no longer on the table...
Yes possibly. But I would think Starmer does have some influence over decision not to allow left wing candidates to stand, but maybe it really is a fully independent process...
I was gonna do a long impassioned comment about our blindness on migration but fuck it. The debate is so warped and stupid it’s not even worth it
Also I have just been to the world’s second largest wine cellar
And here you go, you utter, utter bellend.
With time peoples' attitudes become more progressive. Why this shouldn't happen with 2nd, 3rd, 4th generation muslims (or orthodox Jews) is not at all clear.
People's attitudes do not always become more progressive with time. You're extrapolating too much from your own lifetime.
Maybe. In Afghan they haven't (in the sixties the women were going around in mini-skirts). But they have in western liberal democracies and we are in a western liberal democracies.
No they haven’t. Again you’re provably wrong
Here’s the latest poll on Muslim attitudes. More 18-24 year olds than 55+ year olds want to make it illegal to show the prophet Mohammad in any form. Younger Muslims are much more anti Isreal and anti Jewish. And so on
The attitudes to homosexuality have barely budged in a decade. A 50/50 split on whether it should be illegal. Large minorities or actual majorities want sharia law across the UK, compulsory halal food everywhere, more traditional roles for women
It’s deeply depressing. This is what we are importing. This is incompatible with the liberal western democracy you proclaim to cherish
I can only conclude that you are literary too dumb and incurious to grasp all this, because I don’t believe you are that intellectually dishonest
What worse is that those of us over a certain age will ensure their views are marginalised. That’s the right thing to do but will radicalise them further, and 30 years from now there will be an issue.
I do worry about the current 18-21 demographic when it’s in power.
I’m 97% certain young white Britons will shift firmly to the right in the next decade - as they are doing across Europe. We are not immune to this trend we are merely 5-10 years behind it
Personally I’d prefer it if that wasn’t inevitable. If we hadn’t had so much immigration and we hadn’t pursued insane woke policies and if we hadn’t made young white men in particular such a target we wouldn’t have banked all this trouble. But we have and we did and the interest is slowly but surely accruing
When Labour fails to change the world, which they will, what happens then?
They aren't really, most young people voted for Melenchon in France, in Germany they tend to vote Green, here they are more likely to vote Labour or Green too. In Australia and NZ they tend to vote Labor or Green and in Canada NDP, even in the US they voted for Biden last time albeit Trump has made inroads with the young.
The young may be more likely to vote populist right than traditionalist right though eg Le Pen and Meloni both poll higher with under 35s than Les Republicains and Forza Italia too. Poilievre though in Canada now leads Trudeau with the young mainly as he promises to build more homes, especially near stations
Being tolerant of views you don't agree with has definitely declined over the last few years. If that's one of the definitions of being progressive, it's in decline.
True, but - so far - societally that hasn't been the case. The opposite, if anything, hence the outrage on here about eg the BBC's woke correctness gone mad and the fact that every advert for washing powder has an obligatory mixed race family.
I was gonna do a long impassioned comment about our blindness on migration but fuck it. The debate is so warped and stupid it’s not even worth it
Also I have just been to the world’s second largest wine cellar
And here you go, you utter, utter bellend.
With time peoples' attitudes become more progressive. Why this shouldn't happen with 2nd, 3rd, 4th generation muslims (or orthodox Jews) is not at all clear.
People's attitudes do not always become more progressive with time. You're extrapolating too much from your own lifetime.
Maybe. In Afghan they haven't (in the sixties the women were going around in mini-skirts). But they have in western liberal democracies and we are in a western liberal democracies.
No they haven’t. Again you’re provably wrong
Here’s the latest poll on Muslim attitudes. More 18-24 year olds than 55+ year olds want to make it illegal to show the prophet Mohammad in any form. Younger Muslims are much more anti Isreal and anti Jewish. And so on
The attitudes to homosexuality have barely budged in a decade. A 50/50 split on whether it should be illegal. Large minorities or actual majorities want sharia law across the UK, compulsory halal food everywhere, more traditional roles for women
It’s deeply depressing. This is what we are importing. This is incompatible with the liberal western democracy you proclaim to cherish
I can only conclude that you are literary too dumb and incurious to grasp all this, because I don’t believe you are that intellectually dishonest
What worse is that those of us over a certain age will ensure their views are marginalised. That’s the right thing to do but will radicalise them further, and 30 years from now there will be an issue.
I do worry about the current 18-21 demographic when it’s in power.
I’m 97% certain young white Britons will shift firmly to the right in the next decade - as they are doing across Europe. We are not immune to this trend we are merely 5-10 years behind it
Personally I’d prefer it if that wasn’t inevitable. If we hadn’t had so much immigration and we hadn’t pursued insane woke policies and if we hadn’t made young white men in particular such a target we wouldn’t have banked all this trouble. But we have and we did and the interest is slowly but surely accruing
When Labour fails to change the world, which they will, what happens then?
I can assure you that young Britons care a lot less about "woke" stuff than you do.
• Renationalising our NHS • £70bn Wealth Tax • 500,000 Council Homes • £16 per hour min wage • Universal Basic Income • Rent Controls • Abolishing Tuition Fees • Recognition of Palestine • Free Secondary School Meals • Axe Two-Child Cap
That's why I will Vote 💚
Looking forward to NHS brand Ibuprofen.
4 & 5, in combination, would simply end a rather large chunk of jobs in the U.K.
Assuming a £12k UBI, that’s £40k a year for the lowest paid job.
The whole point of a UBI is that you can abolish the minimum wage and all the means-tested benefits, tax credits etc, along with the huge bureaucracy that supports the welfare state.
Indeed. A UBI plus a minimum wage is a farce.
Its also why for all its theoretical positives, it won't work in the real world, because politicians will quickly go oh we need UBI+ for those that live in London, UBI++ for those from generational poor backgrounds....
How much are they up to for reparations in California now ? Last thing I recall a million dollars was considered not nearly enough
At present a UBI is too costly and unrealistic. If AI causes mass unemployment though and few permanent jobs no government will ever get elected again without backing a UBI funded by a tax on robots used by corporations
In much happier news I am now lodged in an ancient Bessarabian farmhouse overlooking the Dniester river and the farmer who owns the place wants me to taste every single form of alcohol he has made in the last 30 years
Moldova is great. They get so few tourists they basically have a festival if one shows up
I was gonna do a long impassioned comment about our blindness on migration but fuck it. The debate is so warped and stupid it’s not even worth it
Also I have just been to the world’s second largest wine cellar
And here you go, you utter, utter bellend.
With time peoples' attitudes become more progressive. Why this shouldn't happen with 2nd, 3rd, 4th generation muslims (or orthodox Jews) is not at all clear.
People's attitudes do not always become more progressive with time. You're extrapolating too much from your own lifetime.
Maybe. In Afghan they haven't (in the sixties the women were going around in mini-skirts). But they have in western liberal democracies and we are in a western liberal democracies.
No they haven’t. Again you’re provably wrong
Here’s the latest poll on Muslim attitudes. More 18-24 year olds than 55+ year olds want to make it illegal to show the prophet Mohammad in any form. Younger Muslims are much more anti Isreal and anti Jewish. And so on
The attitudes to homosexuality have barely budged in a decade. A 50/50 split on whether it should be illegal. Large minorities or actual majorities want sharia law across the UK, compulsory halal food everywhere, more traditional roles for women
It’s deeply depressing. This is what we are importing. This is incompatible with the liberal western democracy you proclaim to cherish
I can only conclude that you are literary too dumb and incurious to grasp all this, because I don’t believe you are that intellectually dishonest
What worse is that those of us over a certain age will ensure their views are marginalised. That’s the right thing to do but will radicalise them further, and 30 years from now there will be an issue.
I do worry about the current 18-21 demographic when it’s in power.
I’m 97% certain young white Britons will shift firmly to the right in the next decade - as they are doing across Europe. We are not immune to this trend we are merely 5-10 years behind it
Personally I’d prefer it if that wasn’t inevitable. If we hadn’t had so much immigration and we hadn’t pursued insane woke policies and if we hadn’t made young white men in particular such a target we wouldn’t have banked all this trouble. But we have and we did and the interest is slowly but surely accruing
When Labour fails to change the world, which they will, what happens then?
I hope they don't shift to the nasty right, but I'm not confident.
I was gonna do a long impassioned comment about our blindness on migration but fuck it. The debate is so warped and stupid it’s not even worth it
Also I have just been to the world’s second largest wine cellar
And here you go, you utter, utter bellend.
With time peoples' attitudes become more progressive. Why this shouldn't happen with 2nd, 3rd, 4th generation muslims (or orthodox Jews) is not at all clear.
People's attitudes do not always become more progressive with time. You're extrapolating too much from your own lifetime.
Maybe. In Afghan they haven't (in the sixties the women were going around in mini-skirts). But they have in western liberal democracies and we are in a western liberal democracies.
In Britain, the number of 18-24 year olds who support the death penalty for cases of multiple murder has risen to 56%.
What's interesting about those charts is how consistent they are across age profiles. Only 65+ is significantly different. And they are almost identical by gender. Which surprised me. I do think a referendum is smart politics for the Tories. If not now then in Opposition. I wouldn't have to give it a second thought.
Nor I would - the risk of killing someone who is innocent is way too great...
The Post Office scandal should be enough to put anyone off the idea.
Especially in the UK whether the proof threshold for murder is far less than it is for shoplifting.
• Renationalising our NHS • £70bn Wealth Tax • 500,000 Council Homes • £16 per hour min wage • Universal Basic Income • Rent Controls • Abolishing Tuition Fees • Recognition of Palestine • Free Secondary School Meals • Axe Two-Child Cap
That's why I will Vote 💚
Looking forward to NHS brand Ibuprofen.
4 & 5, in combination, would simply end a rather large chunk of jobs in the U.K.
Assuming a £12k UBI, that’s £40k a year for the lowest paid job.
The whole point of a UBI is that you can abolish the minimum wage and all the means-tested benefits, tax credits etc, along with the huge bureaucracy that supports the welfare state.
Indeed. A UBI plus a minimum wage is a farce.
Its also why for all its theoretical positives, it won't work in the real world, because politicians will quickly go oh we need UBI+ for those that live in London, UBI++ for those from generational poor backgrounds....
How much are they up to for reparations in California now ? Last thing I recall a million dollars was considered not nearly enough
At present a UBI is too costly and unrealistic. If AI causes mass unemployment though and few permanent jobs no government will ever get elected again without backing a UBI funded by a tax on robots used by corporations
AI plus robotics won’t cause mass unemployment as some suggest. At its absolute best, it will be a mini-industrial revolution where we all become 5x as productive with the help of AI and although some jobs die around the edges, others will be born.
Most people instinctively like the idea. After about 5 minutes, the awful implications of it start to become apparent. The death penalty, even after what happened to the Post Office folk? If the polling reaction to NS is anything to go by, after a lot of noise, no change.
Though it would support my idea that this is an arsehole manifesto that only attracts arseholes. The negative vibes around the Conservatives are so bad I'm starting to wonder if Ed Davey's strategy of just *smiling* might really pay off.
Most people instinctively like the idea. After about 5 minutes, the awful implications of it start to become apparent. The death penalty, even after what happened to the Post Office folk? If the polling reaction to NS is anything to go by, after a lot of noise, no change.
Though it would support my idea that this is an arsehole manifesto that only attracts arseholes. The negative vibes around the Conservatives are so bad I'm starting to wonder if Ed Davey's strategy of just *smiling* might really pay off.
"That nice Mr Davey how bad could it [LD 500+ seats] be?"
• Renationalising our NHS • £70bn Wealth Tax • 500,000 Council Homes • £16 per hour min wage • Universal Basic Income • Rent Controls • Abolishing Tuition Fees • Recognition of Palestine • Free Secondary School Meals • Axe Two-Child Cap
That's why I will Vote 💚
Bit weak on the environment.
500,000 council homes built where exactly?
Got to say it's great to see a manifesto where not a single thought has been given as to how do we achieve this / pay for it...
The 2019 Green Party manifesto included an appendix 'How it all adds up'. It probably didn't, but hey it was more than most bothered to do. (The 2015 manifesto had actual tables and everything on the finances, just to really reassure people, but they didn't bother for 2017).
They also hyperlinked the chapters within the document, which earned it some bonus points compared to most parties.
But let's be honest, the Palestine point is probably the biggest draw for many of its supporters anyway, the rest is not that stand out thesedays.
Most people instinctively like the idea. After about 5 minutes, the awful implications of it start to become apparent. The death penalty, even after what happened to the Post Office folk? If the polling reaction to NS is anything to go by, after a lot of noise, no change.
Though it would support my idea that this is an arsehole manifesto that only attracts arseholes. The negative vibes around the Conservatives are so bad I'm starting to wonder if Ed Davey's strategy of just *smiling* might really pay off.
"That nice Mr Davey how bad could it [LD 500+ seats] be?"
The other weird thing about Davey is he looks more comfortable in his wetsuit than Sunak and Starmer do in their suits.
I was gonna do a long impassioned comment about our blindness on migration but fuck it. The debate is so warped and stupid it’s not even worth it
Also I have just been to the world’s second largest wine cellar
And here you go, you utter, utter bellend.
With time peoples' attitudes become more progressive. Why this shouldn't happen with 2nd, 3rd, 4th generation muslims (or orthodox Jews) is not at all clear.
People's attitudes do not always become more progressive with time. You're extrapolating too much from your own lifetime.
Maybe. In Afghan they haven't (in the sixties the women were going around in mini-skirts). But they have in western liberal democracies and we are in a western liberal democracies.
No they haven’t. Again you’re provably wrong
Here’s the latest poll on Muslim attitudes. More 18-24 year olds than 55+ year olds want to make it illegal to show the prophet Mohammad in any form. Younger Muslims are much more anti Isreal and anti Jewish. And so on
The attitudes to homosexuality have barely budged in a decade. A 50/50 split on whether it should be illegal. Large minorities or actual majorities want sharia law across the UK, compulsory halal food everywhere, more traditional roles for women
It’s deeply depressing. This is what we are importing. This is incompatible with the liberal western democracy you proclaim to cherish
I can only conclude that you are literary too dumb and incurious to grasp all this, because I don’t believe you are that intellectually dishonest
What worse is that those of us over a certain age will ensure their views are marginalised. That’s the right thing to do but will radicalise them further, and 30 years from now there will be an issue.
I do worry about the current 18-21 demographic when it’s in power.
I’m 97% certain young white Britons will shift firmly to the right in the next decade - as they are doing across Europe. We are not immune to this trend we are merely 5-10 years behind it
Personally I’d prefer it if that wasn’t inevitable. If we hadn’t had so much immigration and we hadn’t pursued insane woke policies and if we hadn’t made young white men in particular such a target we wouldn’t have banked all this trouble. But we have and we did and the interest is slowly but surely accruing
When Labour fails to change the world, which they will, what happens then?
The real risk is that many give up on democracy and go to the extremes.
Most people instinctively like the idea. After about 5 minutes, the awful implications of it start to become apparent. The death penalty, even after what happened to the Post Office folk? If the polling reaction to NS is anything to go by, after a lot of noise, no change.
Though it would support my idea that this is an arsehole manifesto that only attracts arseholes. The negative vibes around the Conservatives are so bad I'm starting to wonder if Ed Davey's strategy of just *smiling* might really pay off.
I love how 25 days of service helping grannies has become the death penalty.
I was gonna do a long impassioned comment about our blindness on migration but fuck it. The debate is so warped and stupid it’s not even worth it
Also I have just been to the world’s second largest wine cellar
And here you go, you utter, utter bellend.
With time peoples' attitudes become more progressive. Why this shouldn't happen with 2nd, 3rd, 4th generation muslims (or orthodox Jews) is not at all clear.
People's attitudes do not always become more progressive with time. You're extrapolating too much from your own lifetime.
Maybe. In Afghan they haven't (in the sixties the women were going around in mini-skirts). But they have in western liberal democracies and we are in a western liberal democracies.
No they haven’t. Again you’re provably wrong
Here’s the latest poll on Muslim attitudes. More 18-24 year olds than 55+ year olds want to make it illegal to show the prophet Mohammad in any form. Younger Muslims are much more anti Isreal and anti Jewish. And so on
The attitudes to homosexuality have barely budged in a decade. A 50/50 split on whether it should be illegal. Large minorities or actual majorities want sharia law across the UK, compulsory halal food everywhere, more traditional roles for women
It’s deeply depressing. This is what we are importing. This is incompatible with the liberal western democracy you proclaim to cherish
I can only conclude that you are literary too dumb and incurious to grasp all this, because I don’t believe you are that intellectually dishonest
What worse is that those of us over a certain age will ensure their views are marginalised. That’s the right thing to do but will radicalise them further, and 30 years from now there will be an issue.
I do worry about the current 18-21 demographic when it’s in power.
I’m 97% certain young white Britons will shift firmly to the right in the next decade - as they are doing across Europe. We are not immune to this trend we are merely 5-10 years behind it
Personally I’d prefer it if that wasn’t inevitable. If we hadn’t had so much immigration and we hadn’t pursued insane woke policies and if we hadn’t made young white men in particular such a target we wouldn’t have banked all this trouble. But we have and we did and the interest is slowly but surely accruing
When Labour fails to change the world, which they will, what happens then?
The real risk is that many give up on democracy and go to the extremes.
As long as they only vote for the extremes that is still democracy, even if centrism gets squeezed.
• Renationalising our NHS • £70bn Wealth Tax • 500,000 Council Homes • £16 per hour min wage • Universal Basic Income • Rent Controls • Abolishing Tuition Fees • Recognition of Palestine • Free Secondary School Meals • Axe Two-Child Cap
That's why I will Vote 💚
Looking forward to NHS brand Ibuprofen.
4 & 5, in combination, would simply end a rather large chunk of jobs in the U.K.
Assuming a £12k UBI, that’s £40k a year for the lowest paid job.
The whole point of a UBI is that you can abolish the minimum wage and all the means-tested benefits, tax credits etc, along with the huge bureaucracy that supports the welfare state.
Indeed. A UBI plus a minimum wage is a farce.
Its also why for all its theoretical positives, it won't work in the real world, because politicians will quickly go oh we need UBI+ for those that live in London, UBI++ for those from generational poor backgrounds....
How much are they up to for reparations in California now ? Last thing I recall a million dollars was considered not nearly enough
At present a UBI is too costly and unrealistic. If AI causes mass unemployment though and few permanent jobs no government will ever get elected again without backing a UBI funded by a tax on robots used by corporations
AI plus robotics won’t cause mass unemployment as some suggest. At its absolute best, it will be a mini-industrial revolution where we all become 5x as productive with the help of AI and although some jobs die around the edges, others will be born.
Most people instinctively like the idea. After about 5 minutes, the awful implications of it start to become apparent. The death penalty, even after what happened to the Post Office folk? If the polling reaction to NS is anything to go by, after a lot of noise, no change.
Though it would support my idea that this is an arsehole manifesto that only attracts arseholes. The negative vibes around the Conservatives are so bad I'm starting to wonder if Ed Davey's strategy of just *smiling* might really pay off.
I love how 25 days of service helping grannies has become the death penalty.
Possibly for the Grannies, if it replaces trained social care workers. Preventing falls is no simple task.
I was gonna do a long impassioned comment about our blindness on migration but fuck it. The debate is so warped and stupid it’s not even worth it
Also I have just been to the world’s second largest wine cellar
And here you go, you utter, utter bellend.
With time peoples' attitudes become more progressive. Why this shouldn't happen with 2nd, 3rd, 4th generation muslims (or orthodox Jews) is not at all clear.
People's attitudes do not always become more progressive with time. You're extrapolating too much from your own lifetime.
Maybe. In Afghan they haven't (in the sixties the women were going around in mini-skirts). But they have in western liberal democracies and we are in a western liberal democracies.
No they haven’t. Again you’re provably wrong
Here’s the latest poll on Muslim attitudes. More 18-24 year olds than 55+ year olds want to make it illegal to show the prophet Mohammad in any form. Younger Muslims are much more anti Isreal and anti Jewish. And so on
The attitudes to homosexuality have barely budged in a decade. A 50/50 split on whether it should be illegal. Large minorities or actual majorities want sharia law across the UK, compulsory halal food everywhere, more traditional roles for women
It’s deeply depressing. This is what we are importing. This is incompatible with the liberal western democracy you proclaim to cherish
I can only conclude that you are literary too dumb and incurious to grasp all this, because I don’t believe you are that intellectually dishonest
What worse is that those of us over a certain age will ensure their views are marginalised. That’s the right thing to do but will radicalise them further, and 30 years from now there will be an issue.
I do worry about the current 18-21 demographic when it’s in power.
I’m 97% certain young white Britons will shift firmly to the right in the next decade - as they are doing across Europe. We are not immune to this trend we are merely 5-10 years behind it
Personally I’d prefer it if that wasn’t inevitable. If we hadn’t had so much immigration and we hadn’t pursued insane woke policies and if we hadn’t made young white men in particular such a target we wouldn’t have banked all this trouble. But we have and we did and the interest is slowly but surely accruing
When Labour fails to change the world, which they will, what happens then?
The real risk is that many give up on democracy and go to the extremes.
You mean because of policies enacted by the Conservative Party over the past 14 years? Yes scary.
Most people instinctively like the idea. After about 5 minutes, the awful implications of it start to become apparent. The death penalty, even after what happened to the Post Office folk? If the polling reaction to NS is anything to go by, after a lot of noise, no change.
Though it would support my idea that this is an arsehole manifesto that only attracts arseholes. The negative vibes around the Conservatives are so bad I'm starting to wonder if Ed Davey's strategy of just *smiling* might really pay off.
There's a lot to be said for it. The 1992 version of John Major had a lovely smile.
Whatever your politics at least we get to decide here. 14 convicted of a "vicious" plan to stand for election:
"Fourteen of the defendants — collectively known as the Hong Kong 47 — were found guilty of what prosecutors called a “vicious” plan to win a majority of seats in Hong Kong’s legislature and to force out the territory’s chief executive by blocking laws and budgets."
I was gonna do a long impassioned comment about our blindness on migration but fuck it. The debate is so warped and stupid it’s not even worth it
Also I have just been to the world’s second largest wine cellar
And here you go, you utter, utter bellend.
With time peoples' attitudes become more progressive. Why this shouldn't happen with 2nd, 3rd, 4th generation muslims (or orthodox Jews) is not at all clear.
People's attitudes do not always become more progressive with time. You're extrapolating too much from your own lifetime.
Maybe. In Afghan they haven't (in the sixties the women were going around in mini-skirts). But they have in western liberal democracies and we are in a western liberal democracies.
No they haven’t. Again you’re provably wrong
Here’s the latest poll on Muslim attitudes. More 18-24 year olds than 55+ year olds want to make it illegal to show the prophet Mohammad in any form. Younger Muslims are much more anti Isreal and anti Jewish. And so on
The attitudes to homosexuality have barely budged in a decade. A 50/50 split on whether it should be illegal. Large minorities or actual majorities want sharia law across the UK, compulsory halal food everywhere, more traditional roles for women
It’s deeply depressing. This is what we are importing. This is incompatible with the liberal western democracy you proclaim to cherish
I can only conclude that you are literary too dumb and incurious to grasp all this, because I don’t believe you are that intellectually dishonest
What worse is that those of us over a certain age will ensure their views are marginalised. That’s the right thing to do but will radicalise them further, and 30 years from now there will be an issue.
I do worry about the current 18-21 demographic when it’s in power.
I’m 97% certain young white Britons will shift firmly to the right in the next decade - as they are doing across Europe. We are not immune to this trend we are merely 5-10 years behind it
Personally I’d prefer it if that wasn’t inevitable. If we hadn’t had so much immigration and we hadn’t pursued insane woke policies and if we hadn’t made young white men in particular such a target we wouldn’t have banked all this trouble. But we have and we did and the interest is slowly but surely accruing
When Labour fails to change the world, which they will, what happens then?
They aren't really, most young people voted for Melenchon in France, in Germany they tend to vote Green, here they are more likely to vote Labour or Green too. In Australia and NZ they tend to vote Labor or Green and in Canada NDP, even in the US they voted for Biden last time albeit Trump has made inroads with the young.
The young may be more likely to vote populist right than traditionalist right though eg Le Pen and Meloni both poll higher with under 35s than Les Republicains and Forza Italia too. Poilievre though in Canada now leads Trudeau with the young mainly as he promises to build more homes, especially near stations
Doesn’t seem much point building homes near stations, when most Canadian stations only have a train three days a week, at 2.37am.
— only 17% of voters think he’s too old to be PM — that falls to 5% among swing voters — only 26% of Tories say his age is an issue — and core vote may be offended
I was gonna do a long impassioned comment about our blindness on migration but fuck it. The debate is so warped and stupid it’s not even worth it
Also I have just been to the world’s second largest wine cellar
And here you go, you utter, utter bellend.
With time peoples' attitudes become more progressive. Why this shouldn't happen with 2nd, 3rd, 4th generation muslims (or orthodox Jews) is not at all clear.
People's attitudes do not always become more progressive with time. You're extrapolating too much from your own lifetime.
Maybe. In Afghan they haven't (in the sixties the women were going around in mini-skirts). But they have in western liberal democracies and we are in a western liberal democracies.
No they haven’t. Again you’re provably wrong
Here’s the latest poll on Muslim attitudes. More 18-24 year olds than 55+ year olds want to make it illegal to show the prophet Mohammad in any form. Younger Muslims are much more anti Isreal and anti Jewish. And so on
The attitudes to homosexuality have barely budged in a decade. A 50/50 split on whether it should be illegal. Large minorities or actual majorities want sharia law across the UK, compulsory halal food everywhere, more traditional roles for women
It’s deeply depressing. This is what we are importing. This is incompatible with the liberal western democracy you proclaim to cherish
I can only conclude that you are literary too dumb and incurious to grasp all this, because I don’t believe you are that intellectually dishonest
What worse is that those of us over a certain age will ensure their views are marginalised. That’s the right thing to do but will radicalise them further, and 30 years from now there will be an issue.
I do worry about the current 18-21 demographic when it’s in power.
I’m 97% certain young white Britons will shift firmly to the right in the next decade - as they are doing across Europe. We are not immune to this trend we are merely 5-10 years behind it
Personally I’d prefer it if that wasn’t inevitable. If we hadn’t had so much immigration and we hadn’t pursued insane woke policies and if we hadn’t made young white men in particular such a target we wouldn’t have banked all this trouble. But we have and we did and the interest is slowly but surely accruing
When Labour fails to change the world, which they will, what happens then?
The real risk is that many give up on democracy and go to the extremes.
One week in and you're already conjuring up a neo-fascist revolution led by 18 year olds. I suppose everyone has their safe space.
Most people instinctively like the idea. After about 5 minutes, the awful implications of it start to become apparent. The death penalty, even after what happened to the Post Office folk? If the polling reaction to NS is anything to go by, after a lot of noise, no change.
Though it would support my idea that this is an arsehole manifesto that only attracts arseholes. The negative vibes around the Conservatives are so bad I'm starting to wonder if Ed Davey's strategy of just *smiling* might really pay off.
I love how 25 days of service helping grannies has become the death penalty.
Are you criticising the nature of the analogy or of analogies in general?
Most people instinctively like the idea. After about 5 minutes, the awful implications of it start to become apparent. The death penalty, even after what happened to the Post Office folk? If the polling reaction to NS is anything to go by, after a lot of noise, no change.
Though it would support my idea that this is an arsehole manifesto that only attracts arseholes. The negative vibes around the Conservatives are so bad I'm starting to wonder if Ed Davey's strategy of just *smiling* might really pay off.
It's an absurd proposal. Lets set aside for a moment the practical elements of (a) the armed forces don't have the capacity to do this and (b) there isn't a framework of companies / providers to manage the mandatory "volunteering" program. Lets just look at the optics.
My daughter is a few weeks off her 13th birthday. So is in the firing line (geddit?) of this proposal assuming a Royal Commission does its job and puts recommendations in place.
What does that mean? As the Telegraph confirmed there is no room in the plan for people to have plans. No room for a gap year. No room for university. No room for a job, or even to start a business. You will "volunteer" and it will make you a better person. Because at 18 you would otherwise be a worse person and we will fix you.
No way is that going to happen. And that's assuming they fix the capacity issues in the armed forces and the voluntary sector. And we know what that will mean in reality - conscripts with little function in overstretched armed forces in horrible conditions, and an army of Tory contractors taking a ton of our money to create volunteering opportunities at the highest possible invoice price and the lowest possible cost.
In much happier news I am now lodged in an ancient Bessarabian farmhouse overlooking the Dniester river and the farmer who owns the place wants me to taste every single form of alcohol he has made in the last 30 years
Moldova is great. They get so few tourists they basically have a festival if one shows up
I was gonna do a long impassioned comment about our blindness on migration but fuck it. The debate is so warped and stupid it’s not even worth it
Also I have just been to the world’s second largest wine cellar
And here you go, you utter, utter bellend.
With time peoples' attitudes become more progressive. Why this shouldn't happen with 2nd, 3rd, 4th generation muslims (or orthodox Jews) is not at all clear.
People's attitudes do not always become more progressive with time. You're extrapolating too much from your own lifetime.
Maybe. In Afghan they haven't (in the sixties the women were going around in mini-skirts). But they have in western liberal democracies and we are in a western liberal democracies.
No they haven’t. Again you’re provably wrong
Here’s the latest poll on Muslim attitudes. More 18-24 year olds than 55+ year olds want to make it illegal to show the prophet Mohammad in any form. Younger Muslims are much more anti Isreal and anti Jewish. And so on
The attitudes to homosexuality have barely budged in a decade. A 50/50 split on whether it should be illegal. Large minorities or actual majorities want sharia law across the UK, compulsory halal food everywhere, more traditional roles for women
It’s deeply depressing. This is what we are importing. This is incompatible with the liberal western democracy you proclaim to cherish
I can only conclude that you are literary too dumb and incurious to grasp all this, because I don’t believe you are that intellectually dishonest
What worse is that those of us over a certain age will ensure their views are marginalised. That’s the right thing to do but will radicalise them further, and 30 years from now there will be an issue.
I do worry about the current 18-21 demographic when it’s in power.
I’m 97% certain young white Britons will shift firmly to the right in the next decade - as they are doing across Europe. We are not immune to this trend we are merely 5-10 years behind it
Personally I’d prefer it if that wasn’t inevitable. If we hadn’t had so much immigration and we hadn’t pursued insane woke policies and if we hadn’t made young white men in particular such a target we wouldn’t have banked all this trouble. But we have and we did and the interest is slowly but surely accruing
When Labour fails to change the world, which they will, what happens then?
The real risk is that many give up on democracy and go to the extremes.
Agreed. It would be safer for democracy to actually try to include young people, defined as anyone under 60.
— only 17% of voters think he’s too old to be PM — that falls to 5% among swing voters — only 26% of Tories say his age is an issue — and core vote may be offended
I must have blinked and missed the attacks - it seemed to come out of nowhere and I've not noticed anything sustained, so was it an official thing?
The man is 61 and broadly looks his age, he's obviously not too old or decrepit.
I was gonna do a long impassioned comment about our blindness on migration but fuck it. The debate is so warped and stupid it’s not even worth it
Also I have just been to the world’s second largest wine cellar
And here you go, you utter, utter bellend.
With time peoples' attitudes become more progressive. Why this shouldn't happen with 2nd, 3rd, 4th generation muslims (or orthodox Jews) is not at all clear.
People's attitudes do not always become more progressive with time. You're extrapolating too much from your own lifetime.
Maybe. In Afghan they haven't (in the sixties the women were going around in mini-skirts). But they have in western liberal democracies and we are in a western liberal democracies.
No they haven’t. Again you’re provably wrong
Here’s the latest poll on Muslim attitudes. More 18-24 year olds than 55+ year olds want to make it illegal to show the prophet Mohammad in any form. Younger Muslims are much more anti Isreal and anti Jewish. And so on
The attitudes to homosexuality have barely budged in a decade. A 50/50 split on whether it should be illegal. Large minorities or actual majorities want sharia law across the UK, compulsory halal food everywhere, more traditional roles for women
It’s deeply depressing. This is what we are importing. This is incompatible with the liberal western democracy you proclaim to cherish
I can only conclude that you are literary too dumb and incurious to grasp all this, because I don’t believe you are that intellectually dishonest
What worse is that those of us over a certain age will ensure their views are marginalised. That’s the right thing to do but will radicalise them further, and 30 years from now there will be an issue.
I do worry about the current 18-21 demographic when it’s in power.
I’m 97% certain young white Britons will shift firmly to the right in the next decade - as they are doing across Europe. We are not immune to this trend we are merely 5-10 years behind it
Personally I’d prefer it if that wasn’t inevitable. If we hadn’t had so much immigration and we hadn’t pursued insane woke policies and if we hadn’t made young white men in particular such a target we wouldn’t have banked all this trouble. But we have and we did and the interest is slowly but surely accruing
When Labour fails to change the world, which they will, what happens then?
The real risk is that many give up on democracy and go to the extremes.
As long as they only vote for the extremes that is still democracy, even if centrism gets squeezed.
• Renationalising our NHS • £70bn Wealth Tax • 500,000 Council Homes • £16 per hour min wage • Universal Basic Income • Rent Controls • Abolishing Tuition Fees • Recognition of Palestine • Free Secondary School Meals • Axe Two-Child Cap
That's why I will Vote 💚
Looking forward to NHS brand Ibuprofen.
4 & 5, in combination, would simply end a rather large chunk of jobs in the U.K.
Assuming a £12k UBI, that’s £40k a year for the lowest paid job.
The whole point of a UBI is that you can abolish the minimum wage and all the means-tested benefits, tax credits etc, along with the huge bureaucracy that supports the welfare state.
Indeed. A UBI plus a minimum wage is a farce.
Its also why for all its theoretical positives, it won't work in the real world, because politicians will quickly go oh we need UBI+ for those that live in London, UBI++ for those from generational poor backgrounds....
How much are they up to for reparations in California now ? Last thing I recall a million dollars was considered not nearly enough
At present a UBI is too costly and unrealistic. If AI causes mass unemployment though and few permanent jobs no government will ever get elected again without backing a UBI funded by a tax on robots used by corporations
AI plus robotics won’t cause mass unemployment as some suggest. At its absolute best, it will be a mini-industrial revolution where we all become 5x as productive with the help of AI and although some jobs die around the edges, others will be born.
At its worst, sod all will happen.
I think a more realistic issue is a bit of a middle ground to Leon's the AI will take over everything and the AI is crap nothing to see. I think a danger is that we see a repeat of the scars of heavy industry closing down. Lots of people trained to do a specific job and on the wrong end of the age scale to easily retrain and start again, and a potential for a gap between the obselete jobs and new jobs appearing.
The difference is this time is won't just be smelly northerners down pit or in the ship yard, lots of lower end / mid white collar jobs that are filled with middle class will be in the firing line. It won't be all the jobs go, rather one person can do what it currently requires say 5 people.
Government failed when it was mining / ship building etc, and now no party talks about potential impacts of AI (i doubt they understand it tbh).
I was gonna do a long impassioned comment about our blindness on migration but fuck it. The debate is so warped and stupid it’s not even worth it
Also I have just been to the world’s second largest wine cellar
And here you go, you utter, utter bellend.
With time peoples' attitudes become more progressive. Why this shouldn't happen with 2nd, 3rd, 4th generation muslims (or orthodox Jews) is not at all clear.
People's attitudes do not always become more progressive with time. You're extrapolating too much from your own lifetime.
Maybe. In Afghan they haven't (in the sixties the women were going around in mini-skirts). But they have in western liberal democracies and we are in a western liberal democracies.
No they haven’t. Again you’re provably wrong
Here’s the latest poll on Muslim attitudes. More 18-24 year olds than 55+ year olds want to make it illegal to show the prophet Mohammad in any form. Younger Muslims are much more anti Isreal and anti Jewish. And so on
The attitudes to homosexuality have barely budged in a decade. A 50/50 split on whether it should be illegal. Large minorities or actual majorities want sharia law across the UK, compulsory halal food everywhere, more traditional roles for women
It’s deeply depressing. This is what we are importing. This is incompatible with the liberal western democracy you proclaim to cherish
I can only conclude that you are literary too dumb and incurious to grasp all this, because I don’t believe you are that intellectually dishonest
What worse is that those of us over a certain age will ensure their views are marginalised. That’s the right thing to do but will radicalise them further, and 30 years from now there will be an issue.
I do worry about the current 18-21 demographic when it’s in power.
I’m 97% certain young white Britons will shift firmly to the right in the next decade - as they are doing across Europe. We are not immune to this trend we are merely 5-10 years behind it
Personally I’d prefer it if that wasn’t inevitable. If we hadn’t had so much immigration and we hadn’t pursued insane woke policies and if we hadn’t made young white men in particular such a target we wouldn’t have banked all this trouble. But we have and we did and the interest is slowly but surely accruing
When Labour fails to change the world, which they will, what happens then?
The real risk is that many give up on democracy and go to the extremes.
Agreed. It would be safer for democracy to actually try to include young people, defined as anyone under 60.
Compulsory voting instead of compulsory volunteering, perhaps?
I was gonna do a long impassioned comment about our blindness on migration but fuck it. The debate is so warped and stupid it’s not even worth it
Also I have just been to the world’s second largest wine cellar
And here you go, you utter, utter bellend.
With time peoples' attitudes become more progressive. Why this shouldn't happen with 2nd, 3rd, 4th generation muslims (or orthodox Jews) is not at all clear.
People's attitudes do not always become more progressive with time. You're extrapolating too much from your own lifetime.
Maybe. In Afghan they haven't (in the sixties the women were going around in mini-skirts). But they have in western liberal democracies and we are in a western liberal democracies.
No they haven’t. Again you’re provably wrong
Here’s the latest poll on Muslim attitudes. More 18-24 year olds than 55+ year olds want to make it illegal to show the prophet Mohammad in any form. Younger Muslims are much more anti Isreal and anti Jewish. And so on
The attitudes to homosexuality have barely budged in a decade. A 50/50 split on whether it should be illegal. Large minorities or actual majorities want sharia law across the UK, compulsory halal food everywhere, more traditional roles for women
It’s deeply depressing. This is what we are importing. This is incompatible with the liberal western democracy you proclaim to cherish
I can only conclude that you are literary too dumb and incurious to grasp all this, because I don’t believe you are that intellectually dishonest
What worse is that those of us over a certain age will ensure their views are marginalised. That’s the right thing to do but will radicalise them further, and 30 years from now there will be an issue.
I do worry about the current 18-21 demographic when it’s in power.
I’m 97% certain young white Britons will shift firmly to the right in the next decade - as they are doing across Europe. We are not immune to this trend we are merely 5-10 years behind it
Personally I’d prefer it if that wasn’t inevitable. If we hadn’t had so much immigration and we hadn’t pursued insane woke policies and if we hadn’t made young white men in particular such a target we wouldn’t have banked all this trouble. But we have and we did and the interest is slowly but surely accruing
When Labour fails to change the world, which they will, what happens then?
The real risk is that many give up on democracy and go to the extremes.
One week in and you're already conjuring up a neo-fascist revolution led by 18 year olds. I suppose everyone has their safe space.
Starmer's plan to give the vote to 16-year-olds could backfire if they go all Tomorrow Belongs To Me.
I was gonna do a long impassioned comment about our blindness on migration but fuck it. The debate is so warped and stupid it’s not even worth it
Also I have just been to the world’s second largest wine cellar
And here you go, you utter, utter bellend.
With time peoples' attitudes become more progressive. Why this shouldn't happen with 2nd, 3rd, 4th generation muslims (or orthodox Jews) is not at all clear.
People's attitudes do not always become more progressive with time. You're extrapolating too much from your own lifetime.
Maybe. In Afghan they haven't (in the sixties the women were going around in mini-skirts). But they have in western liberal democracies and we are in a western liberal democracies.
No they haven’t. Again you’re provably wrong
Here’s the latest poll on Muslim attitudes. More 18-24 year olds than 55+ year olds want to make it illegal to show the prophet Mohammad in any form. Younger Muslims are much more anti Isreal and anti Jewish. And so on
The attitudes to homosexuality have barely budged in a decade. A 50/50 split on whether it should be illegal. Large minorities or actual majorities want sharia law across the UK, compulsory halal food everywhere, more traditional roles for women
It’s deeply depressing. This is what we are importing. This is incompatible with the liberal western democracy you proclaim to cherish
I can only conclude that you are literary too dumb and incurious to grasp all this, because I don’t believe you are that intellectually dishonest
What worse is that those of us over a certain age will ensure their views are marginalised. That’s the right thing to do but will radicalise them further, and 30 years from now there will be an issue.
I do worry about the current 18-21 demographic when it’s in power.
I’m 97% certain young white Britons will shift firmly to the right in the next decade - as they are doing across Europe. We are not immune to this trend we are merely 5-10 years behind it
Personally I’d prefer it if that wasn’t inevitable. If we hadn’t had so much immigration and we hadn’t pursued insane woke policies and if we hadn’t made young white men in particular such a target we wouldn’t have banked all this trouble. But we have and we did and the interest is slowly but surely accruing
When Labour fails to change the world, which they will, what happens then?
The real risk is that many give up on democracy and go to the extremes.
One week in and you're already conjuring up a neo-fascist revolution led by 18 year olds. I suppose everyone has their safe space.
Starmer's plan to give the vote to 16-year-olds could backfire if they go all Tomorrow Belongs To Me.
I was gonna do a long impassioned comment about our blindness on migration but fuck it. The debate is so warped and stupid it’s not even worth it
Also I have just been to the world’s second largest wine cellar
And here you go, you utter, utter bellend.
With time peoples' attitudes become more progressive. Why this shouldn't happen with 2nd, 3rd, 4th generation muslims (or orthodox Jews) is not at all clear.
People's attitudes do not always become more progressive with time. You're extrapolating too much from your own lifetime.
Maybe. In Afghan they haven't (in the sixties the women were going around in mini-skirts). But they have in western liberal democracies and we are in a western liberal democracies.
Most people instinctively like the idea. After about 5 minutes, the awful implications of it start to become apparent. The death penalty, even after what happened to the Post Office folk? If the polling reaction to NS is anything to go by, after a lot of noise, no change.
Though it would support my idea that this is an arsehole manifesto that only attracts arseholes. The negative vibes around the Conservatives are so bad I'm starting to wonder if Ed Davey's strategy of just *smiling* might really pay off.
It's an absurd proposal. Lets set aside for a moment the practical elements of (a) the armed forces don't have the capacity to do this and (b) there isn't a framework of companies / providers to manage the mandatory "volunteering" program. Lets just look at the optics.
My daughter is a few weeks off her 13th birthday. So is in the firing line (geddit?) of this proposal assuming a Royal Commission does its job and puts recommendations in place.
What does that mean? As the Telegraph confirmed there is no room in the plan for people to have plans. No room for a gap year. No room for university. No room for a job, or even to start a business. You will "volunteer" and it will make you a better person. Because at 18 you would otherwise be a worse person and we will fix you.
No way is that going to happen. And that's assuming they fix the capacity issues in the armed forces and the voluntary sector. And we know what that will mean in reality - conscripts with little function in overstretched armed forces in horrible conditions, and an army of Tory contractors taking a ton of our money to create volunteering opportunities at the highest possible invoice price and the lowest possible cost.
Already falling apart, at least for some. (Yes, it's the Mail, but the headline tells you all you need to know.)
I was gonna do a long impassioned comment about our blindness on migration but fuck it. The debate is so warped and stupid it’s not even worth it
Also I have just been to the world’s second largest wine cellar
And here you go, you utter, utter bellend.
With time peoples' attitudes become more progressive. Why this shouldn't happen with 2nd, 3rd, 4th generation muslims (or orthodox Jews) is not at all clear.
People's attitudes do not always become more progressive with time. You're extrapolating too much from your own lifetime.
Maybe. In Afghan they haven't (in the sixties the women were going around in mini-skirts). But they have in western liberal democracies and we are in a western liberal democracies.
No they haven’t. Again you’re provably wrong
Here’s the latest poll on Muslim attitudes. More 18-24 year olds than 55+ year olds want to make it illegal to show the prophet Mohammad in any form. Younger Muslims are much more anti Isreal and anti Jewish. And so on
The attitudes to homosexuality have barely budged in a decade. A 50/50 split on whether it should be illegal. Large minorities or actual majorities want sharia law across the UK, compulsory halal food everywhere, more traditional roles for women
It’s deeply depressing. This is what we are importing. This is incompatible with the liberal western democracy you proclaim to cherish
I can only conclude that you are literary too dumb and incurious to grasp all this, because I don’t believe you are that intellectually dishonest
What worse is that those of us over a certain age will ensure their views are marginalised. That’s the right thing to do but will radicalise them further, and 30 years from now there will be an issue.
I do worry about the current 18-21 demographic when it’s in power.
I’m 97% certain young white Britons will shift firmly to the right in the next decade - as they are doing across Europe. We are not immune to this trend we are merely 5-10 years behind it
Personally I’d prefer it if that wasn’t inevitable. If we hadn’t had so much immigration and we hadn’t pursued insane woke policies and if we hadn’t made young white men in particular such a target we wouldn’t have banked all this trouble. But we have and we did and the interest is slowly but surely accruing
When Labour fails to change the world, which they will, what happens then?
The real risk is that many give up on democracy and go to the extremes.
As long as they only vote for the extremes that is still democracy, even if centrism gets squeezed.
Most people instinctively like the idea. After about 5 minutes, the awful implications of it start to become apparent. The death penalty, even after what happened to the Post Office folk? If the polling reaction to NS is anything to go by, after a lot of noise, no change.
Though it would support my idea that this is an arsehole manifesto that only attracts arseholes. The negative vibes around the Conservatives are so bad I'm starting to wonder if Ed Davey's strategy of just *smiling* might really pay off.
It's an absurd proposal. Lets set aside for a moment the practical elements of (a) the armed forces don't have the capacity to do this and (b) there isn't a framework of companies / providers to manage the mandatory "volunteering" program. Lets just look at the optics.
My daughter is a few weeks off her 13th birthday. So is in the firing line (geddit?) of this proposal assuming a Royal Commission does its job and puts recommendations in place.
What does that mean? As the Telegraph confirmed there is no room in the plan for people to have plans. No room for a gap year. No room for university. No room for a job, or even to start a business. You will "volunteer" and it will make you a better person. Because at 18 you would otherwise be a worse person and we will fix you.
No way is that going to happen. And that's assuming they fix the capacity issues in the armed forces and the voluntary sector. And we know what that will mean in reality - conscripts with little function in overstretched armed forces in horrible conditions, and an army of Tory contractors taking a ton of our money to create volunteering opportunities at the highest possible invoice price and the lowest possible cost.
One thing that does stand out about the proposal is that as the overwhelming majority will be doing the "compulsory volunteering"/community service version, there's no real need to limit it to any particular age.
So if it's good enough for 18-year-olds and fosters community spirit, connections across demographics, pride in Britain, etc, surely it would be even better if rolled out universally?
Why not everyone? Every adult in the UK should be required to give up one full weekend per month for a year for compulsory unpaid labour in the community. The Government get to tell you when your number is up for this (say 10% of the country every year). It would enhance people of all ages interacting with others, offset loneliness in the elderly, and so on.
I do wonder how many of those who say they agree with the prospect would still agree with it if it were rolled out to include them as well. After all, there's no real reason why not.
I was gonna do a long impassioned comment about our blindness on migration but fuck it. The debate is so warped and stupid it’s not even worth it
Also I have just been to the world’s second largest wine cellar
And here you go, you utter, utter bellend.
With time peoples' attitudes become more progressive. Why this shouldn't happen with 2nd, 3rd, 4th generation muslims (or orthodox Jews) is not at all clear.
People's attitudes do not always become more progressive with time. You're extrapolating too much from your own lifetime.
Maybe. In Afghan they haven't (in the sixties the women were going around in mini-skirts). But they have in western liberal democracies and we are in a western liberal democracies.
No they haven’t. Again you’re provably wrong
Here’s the latest poll on Muslim attitudes. More 18-24 year olds than 55+ year olds want to make it illegal to show the prophet Mohammad in any form. Younger Muslims are much more anti Isreal and anti Jewish. And so on
The attitudes to homosexuality have barely budged in a decade. A 50/50 split on whether it should be illegal. Large minorities or actual majorities want sharia law across the UK, compulsory halal food everywhere, more traditional roles for women
It’s deeply depressing. This is what we are importing. This is incompatible with the liberal western democracy you proclaim to cherish
I can only conclude that you are literary too dumb and incurious to grasp all this, because I don’t believe you are that intellectually dishonest
What worse is that those of us over a certain age will ensure their views are marginalised. That’s the right thing to do but will radicalise them further, and 30 years from now there will be an issue.
I do worry about the current 18-21 demographic when it’s in power.
I’m 97% certain young white Britons will shift firmly to the right in the next decade - as they are doing across Europe. We are not immune to this trend we are merely 5-10 years behind it
Personally I’d prefer it if that wasn’t inevitable. If we hadn’t had so much immigration and we hadn’t pursued insane woke policies and if we hadn’t made young white men in particular such a target we wouldn’t have banked all this trouble. But we have and we did and the interest is slowly but surely accruing
When Labour fails to change the world, which they will, what happens then?
They aren't really, most young people voted for Melenchon in France, in Germany they tend to vote Green, here they are more likely to vote Labour or Green too. In Australia and NZ they tend to vote Labor or Green and in Canada NDP, even in the US they voted for Biden last time albeit Trump has made inroads with the young.
The young may be more likely to vote populist right than traditionalist right though eg Le Pen and Meloni both poll higher with under 35s than Les Republicains and Forza Italia too. Poilievre though in Canada now leads Trudeau with the young mainly as he promises to build more homes, especially near stations
Doesn’t seem much point building homes near stations, when most Canadian stations only have a train three days a week, at 2.37am.
In urban and suburban areas there is and better than on greenbelt land
Day 2 of the jury deliberations in the Trump trial .
If they haven’t reached a verdict by the end of the day then I think it will end up a mistrial.
Yesterday’s request by the jury to hear certain testimonies again was seen by some legal experts as bad news for Trump. We can only hope !
There’s quite a few charges to plod through; aren’t there? I know little of the New York jury system but assuming they are running through all the charges and the evidence presumably that will take a bit of time?
There is one local by-election today. It is in Birmingham and on paper should be a Lab gain from Con. But there are some obvious local factors that might change that e.g. the local councils financial difficulties.
I was gonna do a long impassioned comment about our blindness on migration but fuck it. The debate is so warped and stupid it’s not even worth it
Also I have just been to the world’s second largest wine cellar
And here you go, you utter, utter bellend.
With time peoples' attitudes become more progressive. Why this shouldn't happen with 2nd, 3rd, 4th generation muslims (or orthodox Jews) is not at all clear.
People's attitudes do not always become more progressive with time. You're extrapolating too much from your own lifetime.
Maybe. In Afghan they haven't (in the sixties the women were going around in mini-skirts). But they have in western liberal democracies and we are in a western liberal democracies.
No they haven’t. Again you’re provably wrong
Here’s the latest poll on Muslim attitudes. More 18-24 year olds than 55+ year olds want to make it illegal to show the prophet Mohammad in any form. Younger Muslims are much more anti Isreal and anti Jewish. And so on
The attitudes to homosexuality have barely budged in a decade. A 50/50 split on whether it should be illegal. Large minorities or actual majorities want sharia law across the UK, compulsory halal food everywhere, more traditional roles for women
It’s deeply depressing. This is what we are importing. This is incompatible with the liberal western democracy you proclaim to cherish
I can only conclude that you are literary too dumb and incurious to grasp all this, because I don’t believe you are that intellectually dishonest
What worse is that those of us over a certain age will ensure their views are marginalised. That’s the right thing to do but will radicalise them further, and 30 years from now there will be an issue.
I do worry about the current 18-21 demographic when it’s in power.
I was gonna do a long impassioned comment about our blindness on migration but fuck it. The debate is so warped and stupid it’s not even worth it
Also I have just been to the world’s second largest wine cellar
And here you go, you utter, utter bellend.
With time peoples' attitudes become more progressive. Why this shouldn't happen with 2nd, 3rd, 4th generation muslims (or orthodox Jews) is not at all clear.
People's attitudes do not always become more progressive with time. You're extrapolating too much from your own lifetime.
Maybe. In Afghan they haven't (in the sixties the women were going around in mini-skirts). But they have in western liberal democracies and we are in a western liberal democracies.
No they haven’t. Again you’re provably wrong
Here’s the latest poll on Muslim attitudes. More 18-24 year olds than 55+ year olds want to make it illegal to show the prophet Mohammad in any form. Younger Muslims are much more anti Isreal and anti Jewish. And so on
The attitudes to homosexuality have barely budged in a decade. A 50/50 split on whether it should be illegal. Large minorities or actual majorities want sharia law across the UK, compulsory halal food everywhere, more traditional roles for women
It’s deeply depressing. This is what we are importing. This is incompatible with the liberal western democracy you proclaim to cherish
I can only conclude that you are literary too dumb and incurious to grasp all this, because I don’t believe you are that intellectually dishonest
What worse is that those of us over a certain age will ensure their views are marginalised. That’s the right thing to do but will radicalise them further, and 30 years from now there will be an issue.
I do worry about the current 18-21 demographic when it’s in power.
I’m 97% certain young white Britons will shift firmly to the right in the next decade - as they are doing across Europe. We are not immune to this trend we are merely 5-10 years behind it
Personally I’d prefer it if that wasn’t inevitable. If we hadn’t had so much immigration and we hadn’t pursued insane woke policies and if we hadn’t made young white men in particular such a target we wouldn’t have banked all this trouble. But we have and we did and the interest is slowly but surely accruing
When Labour fails to change the world, which they will, what happens then?
The real risk is that many give up on democracy and go to the extremes.
As long as they only vote for the extremes that is still democracy, even if centrism gets squeezed.
@JulianGallie What policies do each age group want to see in a manifesto?
Younger voters
Love the fact that immigration is an issue for the age group who need the immigrants most, because no-one else wants to look after old people because of how little that type of work pays.
Rather worrying that 'living' figures quite highly as a standalone.
'cost' is same size as 'living' in all four, so looks as if the actual phrase used is 'cost of living' and the algorithm has split it up and binned the 'of' (sorry Biggles).
Word clouds usually suck but that is riveting. Why do the youngest cohort (and nobody else) want truth, and what about? And note how cozzie livs completely evaporates for 65 plus and even pensions gets subordinate billing. Perhaps they really are as rich as everyone says.
The obvious question is where are 'woke' and 'trans', the key issues - as we all surely agree - of this election?
More pointedly, apart from the under 34s, “immigration” is prominent in every cloud
And yet where is the debate? The country has just experienced the most profound spate of immigration in its history. 2 MILLION people in 3 years. What do Labour intend to do about this? Why aren’t the Tories being challenged on this? Is it the national intention for this to continue? If not why not? If so, how do we house and educate and look after them all? Our public services are already breaking under the strain
It’s like this enormous issue does not exist. Madness
It’s still rather astonishing that the young can’t see the correlation between population increases and cost of housing increases.
Because it doesn't exist. The problem is a lack of construction. We need construction even if population level is stable due to ageing.
The problem is that the population is increasing faster than housebuilding completions, leading to increased scarcity of housing, leading to price rises and overcrowding.
Yes, everything starts with building millions more houses, on that we are in complete agreement. But the housebuilding needs to come before the population increase, otherwise prices keep going up and the NIMBYs keep winning.
But this just isn't true, however much you wish to ignore it:
Number of dwellings +8.2% Population +6.3% Households +6.1%
I was gonna do a long impassioned comment about our blindness on migration but fuck it. The debate is so warped and stupid it’s not even worth it
Also I have just been to the world’s second largest wine cellar
And here you go, you utter, utter bellend.
With time peoples' attitudes become more progressive. Why this shouldn't happen with 2nd, 3rd, 4th generation muslims (or orthodox Jews) is not at all clear.
People's attitudes do not always become more progressive with time. You're extrapolating too much from your own lifetime.
Maybe. In Afghan they haven't (in the sixties the women were going around in mini-skirts). But they have in western liberal democracies and we are in a western liberal democracies.
No they haven’t. Again you’re provably wrong
Here’s the latest poll on Muslim attitudes. More 18-24 year olds than 55+ year olds want to make it illegal to show the prophet Mohammad in any form. Younger Muslims are much more anti Isreal and anti Jewish. And so on
The attitudes to homosexuality have barely budged in a decade. A 50/50 split on whether it should be illegal. Large minorities or actual majorities want sharia law across the UK, compulsory halal food everywhere, more traditional roles for women
It’s deeply depressing. This is what we are importing. This is incompatible with the liberal western democracy you proclaim to cherish
I can only conclude that you are literary too dumb and incurious to grasp all this, because I don’t believe you are that intellectually dishonest
What worse is that those of us over a certain age will ensure their views are marginalised. That’s the right thing to do but will radicalise them further, and 30 years from now there will be an issue.
I do worry about the current 18-21 demographic when it’s in power.
I’m 97% certain young white Britons will shift firmly to the right in the next decade - as they are doing across Europe. We are not immune to this trend we are merely 5-10 years behind it
Personally I’d prefer it if that wasn’t inevitable. If we hadn’t had so much immigration and we hadn’t pursued insane woke policies and if we hadn’t made young white men in particular such a target we wouldn’t have banked all this trouble. But we have and we did and the interest is slowly but surely accruing
When Labour fails to change the world, which they will, what happens then?
The real risk is that many give up on democracy and go to the extremes.
As long as they only vote for the extremes that is still democracy, even if centrism gets squeezed.
Doesn't seem helpful for Labour to be having this row but what do I know!? I do worry Starmer has miscalculated here...
Technically Rayner and Starmer are on the same page. There is no reason Diane Abbott cannot stand. And until the NEC announces it has blocked her, as she expects it will, Diane is the candidate presumptive.
I was gonna do a long impassioned comment about our blindness on migration but fuck it. The debate is so warped and stupid it’s not even worth it
Also I have just been to the world’s second largest wine cellar
And here you go, you utter, utter bellend.
With time peoples' attitudes become more progressive. Why this shouldn't happen with 2nd, 3rd, 4th generation muslims (or orthodox Jews) is not at all clear.
People's attitudes do not always become more progressive with time. You're extrapolating too much from your own lifetime.
Maybe. In Afghan they haven't (in the sixties the women were going around in mini-skirts). But they have in western liberal democracies and we are in a western liberal democracies.
No they haven’t. Again you’re provably wrong
Here’s the latest poll on Muslim attitudes. More 18-24 year olds than 55+ year olds want to make it illegal to show the prophet Mohammad in any form. Younger Muslims are much more anti Isreal and anti Jewish. And so on
The attitudes to homosexuality have barely budged in a decade. A 50/50 split on whether it should be illegal. Large minorities or actual majorities want sharia law across the UK, compulsory halal food everywhere, more traditional roles for women
It’s deeply depressing. This is what we are importing. This is incompatible with the liberal western democracy you proclaim to cherish
I can only conclude that you are literary too dumb and incurious to grasp all this, because I don’t believe you are that intellectually dishonest
What worse is that those of us over a certain age will ensure their views are marginalised. That’s the right thing to do but will radicalise them further, and 30 years from now there will be an issue.
I do worry about the current 18-21 demographic when it’s in power.
I’m 97% certain young white Britons will shift firmly to the right in the next decade - as they are doing across Europe. We are not immune to this trend we are merely 5-10 years behind it
Personally I’d prefer it if that wasn’t inevitable. If we hadn’t had so much immigration and we hadn’t pursued insane woke policies and if we hadn’t made young white men in particular such a target we wouldn’t have banked all this trouble. But we have and we did and the interest is slowly but surely accruing
When Labour fails to change the world, which they will, what happens then?
The real risk is that many give up on democracy and go to the extremes.
As long as they only vote for the extremes that is still democracy, even if centrism gets squeezed.
The England and Wales Cricket board will sell stakes in the eight Hundred teams later this year and says the competition “will play a vital role in the future of our sport”.
An agreement between the ECB and the 18 first-class counties has been reached over the distribution of funds from the sales, set to be worth hundreds of millions.
The eight hosts of the teams will be given a 51% stake, which they can sell or keep, with the remaining 49% in each team sold by the ECB.
Nice work, guys! And good for Oona in making it up (with a little help from her friends).
Oona Dooks is quite a name.
A nice story though.
I don't know if you've ever been to Edinburgh, Jim, but Arthur's Seat is well worth a climb. There aren't many mountains in the middle of cities.
A tip. Don’t do it on the hottest day of the year, wearing sandals because it “looks like quite a nice path and after all it’s in the middle of a city”.
Most people instinctively like the idea. After about 5 minutes, the awful implications of it start to become apparent. The death penalty, even after what happened to the Post Office folk? If the polling reaction to NS is anything to go by, after a lot of noise, no change.
Though it would support my idea that this is an arsehole manifesto that only attracts arseholes. The negative vibes around the Conservatives are so bad I'm starting to wonder if Ed Davey's strategy of just *smiling* might really pay off.
It's an absurd proposal. Lets set aside for a moment the practical elements of (a) the armed forces don't have the capacity to do this and (b) there isn't a framework of companies / providers to manage the mandatory "volunteering" program. Lets just look at the optics.
My daughter is a few weeks off her 13th birthday. So is in the firing line (geddit?) of this proposal assuming a Royal Commission does its job and puts recommendations in place.
What does that mean? As the Telegraph confirmed there is no room in the plan for people to have plans. No room for a gap year. No room for university. No room for a job, or even to start a business. You will "volunteer" and it will make you a better person. Because at 18 you would otherwise be a worse person and we will fix you.
No way is that going to happen. And that's assuming they fix the capacity issues in the armed forces and the voluntary sector. And we know what that will mean in reality - conscripts with little function in overstretched armed forces in horrible conditions, and an army of Tory contractors taking a ton of our money to create volunteering opportunities at the highest possible invoice price and the lowest possible cost.
Already falling apart, at least for some. (Yes, it's the Mail, but the headline tells you all you need to know.)
Most people instinctively like the idea. After about 5 minutes, the awful implications of it start to become apparent. The death penalty, even after what happened to the Post Office folk? If the polling reaction to NS is anything to go by, after a lot of noise, no change.
Though it would support my idea that this is an arsehole manifesto that only attracts arseholes. The negative vibes around the Conservatives are so bad I'm starting to wonder if Ed Davey's strategy of just *smiling* might really pay off.
It's an absurd proposal. Lets set aside for a moment the practical elements of (a) the armed forces don't have the capacity to do this and (b) there isn't a framework of companies / providers to manage the mandatory "volunteering" program. Lets just look at the optics.
My daughter is a few weeks off her 13th birthday. So is in the firing line (geddit?) of this proposal assuming a Royal Commission does its job and puts recommendations in place.
What does that mean? As the Telegraph confirmed there is no room in the plan for people to have plans. No room for a gap year. No room for university. No room for a job, or even to start a business. You will "volunteer" and it will make you a better person. Because at 18 you would otherwise be a worse person and we will fix you.
No way is that going to happen. And that's assuming they fix the capacity issues in the armed forces and the voluntary sector. And we know what that will mean in reality - conscripts with little function in overstretched armed forces in horrible conditions, and an army of Tory contractors taking a ton of our money to create volunteering opportunities at the highest possible invoice price and the lowest possible cost.
Already falling apart, at least for some. (Yes, it's the Mail, but the headline tells you all you need to know.)
Most people instinctively like the idea. After about 5 minutes, the awful implications of it start to become apparent. The death penalty, even after what happened to the Post Office folk? If the polling reaction to NS is anything to go by, after a lot of noise, no change.
Though it would support my idea that this is an arsehole manifesto that only attracts arseholes. The negative vibes around the Conservatives are so bad I'm starting to wonder if Ed Davey's strategy of just *smiling* might really pay off.
It's an absurd proposal. Lets set aside for a moment the practical elements of (a) the armed forces don't have the capacity to do this and (b) there isn't a framework of companies / providers to manage the mandatory "volunteering" program. Lets just look at the optics.
My daughter is a few weeks off her 13th birthday. So is in the firing line (geddit?) of this proposal assuming a Royal Commission does its job and puts recommendations in place.
What does that mean? As the Telegraph confirmed there is no room in the plan for people to have plans. No room for a gap year. No room for university. No room for a job, or even to start a business. You will "volunteer" and it will make you a better person. Because at 18 you would otherwise be a worse person and we will fix you.
No way is that going to happen. And that's assuming they fix the capacity issues in the armed forces and the voluntary sector. And we know what that will mean in reality - conscripts with little function in overstretched armed forces in horrible conditions, and an army of Tory contractors taking a ton of our money to create volunteering opportunities at the highest possible invoice price and the lowest possible cost.
Already falling apart, at least for some. (Yes, it's the Mail, but the headline tells you all you need to know.)
A man charged in Michigan with driving on a suspended licence, appears in court virtually - from behind the wheel of his car!
The judge didn’t see the funny side, looking at his record and knowing he didn’t have a driving licence, and ordered him to report to a police station that day. He was charged with another count of driving without a licence, and released on bail.
I was gonna do a long impassioned comment about our blindness on migration but fuck it. The debate is so warped and stupid it’s not even worth it
Also I have just been to the world’s second largest wine cellar
And here you go, you utter, utter bellend.
With time peoples' attitudes become more progressive. Why this shouldn't happen with 2nd, 3rd, 4th generation muslims (or orthodox Jews) is not at all clear.
People's attitudes do not always become more progressive with time. You're extrapolating too much from your own lifetime.
Maybe. In Afghan they haven't (in the sixties the women were going around in mini-skirts). But they have in western liberal democracies and we are in a western liberal democracies.
No they haven’t. Again you’re provably wrong
Here’s the latest poll on Muslim attitudes. More 18-24 year olds than 55+ year olds want to make it illegal to show the prophet Mohammad in any form. Younger Muslims are much more anti Isreal and anti Jewish. And so on
The attitudes to homosexuality have barely budged in a decade. A 50/50 split on whether it should be illegal. Large minorities or actual majorities want sharia law across the UK, compulsory halal food everywhere, more traditional roles for women
It’s deeply depressing. This is what we are importing. This is incompatible with the liberal western democracy you proclaim to cherish
I can only conclude that you are literary too dumb and incurious to grasp all this, because I don’t believe you are that intellectually dishonest
What worse is that those of us over a certain age will ensure their views are marginalised. That’s the right thing to do but will radicalise them further, and 30 years from now there will be an issue.
I do worry about the current 18-21 demographic when it’s in power.
I’m 97% certain young white Britons will shift firmly to the right in the next decade - as they are doing across Europe. We are not immune to this trend we are merely 5-10 years behind it
Personally I’d prefer it if that wasn’t inevitable. If we hadn’t had so much immigration and we hadn’t pursued insane woke policies and if we hadn’t made young white men in particular such a target we wouldn’t have banked all this trouble. But we have and we did and the interest is slowly but surely accruing
When Labour fails to change the world, which they will, what happens then?
The real risk is that many give up on democracy and go to the extremes.
One week in and you're already conjuring up a neo-fascist revolution led by 18 year olds. I suppose everyone has their safe space.
No, that was me commenting if Labour fail to deliver- something I've mentioned before.
Comments
I am sure Reform has many other bad policies I can continue to look down upon.
Now if we could abolish religion then we might be moving in the right direction.
Here’s the latest poll on Muslim attitudes. More 18-24 year olds than 55+ year olds want to make it illegal to show the prophet Mohammad in any form. Younger Muslims are much more anti Isreal and anti Jewish. And so on
https://unherd.com/newsroom/two-thirds-of-young-british-muslims-oppose-israels-right-to-exist/
The attitudes to homosexuality have barely budged in a decade. A 50/50 split on whether it should be illegal. Large minorities or actual majorities want sharia law across the UK, compulsory halal food everywhere, more traditional roles for women
It’s deeply depressing. This is what we are importing. This is incompatible with the liberal western democracy you proclaim to cherish
I can only conclude that you are literary too dumb and incurious to grasp all this, because I don’t believe you are that intellectually dishonest
And they are almost identical by gender. Which surprised me.
I do think a referendum is smart politics for the Tories. If not now then in Opposition.
I wouldn't have to give it a second thought.
https://news.sky.com/story/no-reason-diane-abbott-cant-stand-in-general-election-as-a-labour-candidate-says-angela-rayner-13145508
The general asylum right to any who make it here worldwide needs to end and, instead, we need to democratically choose how many and from where- like we did for Ukraine and HK.
That's where this battle is going next. Because it's really atm another form of free movement tempered by a little bit of cash and physical intrepidness.
I do worry about the current 18-21 demographic when it’s in power.
Don't have the facilities to build anything these days.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/may/30/genuinely-a-con-lego-enthusiasts-bemoan-half-empty-room-at-birmingham-nec-event
A UBI plus minimum wage makes a serious percentage of the jobs non economic, over night.
Introducing the death penalty would also presumably mean leaving the ECHR (and maybe the OECD - though the U.S. is a member)?
Personally I’d prefer it if that wasn’t inevitable. If we hadn’t had so much immigration and we hadn’t pursued insane woke policies and if we hadn’t made young white men in particular such a target we wouldn’t have banked all this trouble. But we have and we did and the interest is slowly but surely accruing
When Labour fails to change the world, which they will, what happens then?
Moldova is great. They get so few tourists they basically have a festival if one shows up
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/trackers/should-the-death-penalty-be-reintroduced-for-cases-of-multiple-murder?crossBreak=liberaldemocrat
What's your solution.
The young may be more likely to vote populist right than traditionalist right though eg Le Pen and Meloni both poll higher with under 35s than Les Republicains and Forza Italia too. Poilievre though in Canada now leads Trudeau with the young mainly as he promises to build more homes, especially near stations
Why does it matter if they're white or not.
source$: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/05/30/rugby-players-edinburgh-wheelchair-climb/
Nice work, guys! And good for Oona in making it up (with a little help from her friends).
At its worst, sod all will happen.
Most people instinctively like the idea. After about 5 minutes, the awful implications of it start to become apparent. The death penalty, even after what happened to the Post Office folk? If the polling reaction to NS is anything to go by, after a lot of noise, no change.
Though it would support my idea that this is an arsehole manifesto that only attracts arseholes. The negative vibes around the Conservatives are so bad I'm starting to wonder if Ed Davey's strategy of just *smiling* might really pay off.
They also hyperlinked the chapters within the document, which earned it some bonus points compared to most parties.
But let's be honest, the Palestine point is probably the biggest draw for many of its supporters anyway, the rest is not that stand out thesedays.
NEW: Trump-style Tory attacks on “Sleepy Keir” Starmer backfired,
@Moreincommon_
poll says
— only 17% of voters think he’s too old to be PM
— that falls to 5% among swing voters
— only 26% of Tories say his age is an issue
— and core vote may be offended
My daughter is a few weeks off her 13th birthday. So is in the firing line (geddit?) of this proposal assuming a Royal Commission does its job and puts recommendations in place.
What does that mean? As the Telegraph confirmed there is no room in the plan for people to have plans. No room for a gap year. No room for university. No room for a job, or even to start a business. You will "volunteer" and it will make you a better person. Because at 18 you would otherwise be a worse person and we will fix you.
No way is that going to happen. And that's assuming they fix the capacity issues in the armed forces and the voluntary sector. And we know what that will mean in reality - conscripts with little function in overstretched armed forces in horrible conditions, and an army of Tory contractors taking a ton of our money to create volunteering opportunities at the highest possible invoice price and the lowest possible cost.
(Also a joke.)
The man is 61 and broadly looks his age, he's obviously not too old or decrepit.
The difference is this time is won't just be smelly northerners down pit or in the ship yard, lots of lower end / mid white collar jobs that are filled with middle class will be in the firing line. It won't be all the jobs go, rather one person can do what it currently requires say 5 people.
Government failed when it was mining / ship building etc, and now no party talks about potential impacts of AI (i doubt they understand it tbh).
If they haven’t reached a verdict by the end of the day then I think it will end up a mistrial.
Yesterday’s request by the jury to hear certain testimonies again was seen by some legal experts as bad news for Trump. We can only hope !
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-13473461/England-football-stars-EXEMPT-national-service.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_1933_German_federal_election
So if it's good enough for 18-year-olds and fosters community spirit, connections across demographics, pride in Britain, etc, surely it would be even better if rolled out universally?
Why not everyone? Every adult in the UK should be required to give up one full weekend per month for a year for compulsory unpaid labour in the community. The Government get to tell you when your number is up for this (say 10% of the country every year). It would enhance people of all ages interacting with others, offset loneliness in the elderly, and so on.
I do wonder how many of those who say they agree with the prospect would still agree with it if it were rolled out to include them as well. After all, there's no real reason why not.
And now some might switch yet again. Fortunate devils.
And actually quite freeing.
EDIT: the scare quotes there make it look sarky/mocking - that’s not what I mean
But it's no beauty pagent.
(I have no regrets wasting my one image on this)
An agreement between the ECB and the 18 first-class counties has been reached over the distribution of funds from the sales, set to be worth hundreds of millions.
The eight hosts of the teams will be given a 51% stake, which they can sell or keep, with the remaining 49% in each team sold by the ECB.
A nice story though.
I don't know if you've ever been to Edinburgh, Jim, but Arthur's Seat is well worth a climb. There aren't many mountains in the middle of cities.
A man charged in Michigan with driving on a suspended licence, appears in court virtually - from behind the wheel of his car!
The judge didn’t see the funny side, looking at his record and knowing he didn’t have a driving licence, and ordered him to report to a police station that day. He was charged with another count of driving without a licence, and released on bail.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/news/2024/05/30/man-driving-without-licence-joins-court-call-from-car/
Don't be silly.