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The Eurovision open thread – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,114
edited June 8 in General
imageThe Eurovision open thread – politicalbetting.com

Since the voting system changed I haven’t bet heavily on Eurovision other than to occasionally lay Le Royaume-Uni. I cannot see any value on current prices but I will enjoy the annual bit of European unity and cultural enrichment.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • The UK chose a terrible song and a terrible performer. Get rid.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,188
    On the eve of her husband’s criminal trial for sex offences in July 2020, Natalie Elphicke arrived at the parliamentary office of Robert Buckland, who as lord chancellor and justice secretary was responsible for upholding the rule of law.

    Elphicke had secured the meeting through Sir Mark Spencer, the Conservative Party chief whip. She assured him she did not wish to discuss the plight of her partner, Charlie, whom she had recently succeeded as MP for Dover and whose innocence she had spent years publicly protesting even as several women made claims of sexual assault to the police. She wished to discuss only some general concerns about the justice system.

    The opposite was true.

    Immediately after entering Buckland’s room on the ministerial corridor, she turned to the topic of her husband: the man who, in a newspaper article three years earlier, she had described as a victim of “injustice heaped upon injustice” having been “thrown to the wolves”.

    To the shock of those present, Elphicke, 53, lobbied Buckland to interfere in the upcoming hearing of the case. She told him she felt it was unfair that his case was the first to be heard at Southwark crown court after lockdown and that was being overseen by Lady Justice Whipple, who, as presiding judge of the southeastern circuit, was one of the most senior judges in the land.

    Her comments were interpreted by one person in the room as an attempt to have the case moved to a lower-profile court to spare her husband public scrutiny. Another saw it as an effort to replace Whipple, who Elphicke apparently felt would be overly-strict. It is claimed that she spoke with an air of entitlement and as though Buckland should intervene to stop him being “singled out”.

    Buckland immediately objected, insisting the conversation could go no further, and declined to help. He feared it would be “outrageous” for him to interfere with the administration of justice by helping a fellow Conservative MP or her husband, also a former colleague. A key constitutional doctrine is that there should be a separation of powers between the principal institutions of state — including parliament and the judiciary.

    The MP for South Swindon said today: “She was told in no uncertain terms that it would have been completely inappropriate to speak to the judge about the trial at all.”

    A Labour Party spokesman said: “Natalie Elphicke totally rejects that characterisation of the meeting. If Robert Buckland had any genuine concerns about the meeting, then he should have raised them at the time, rather than making claims to the newspapers now Natalie has chosen to join the Labour Party.”


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/natalie-elphicke-lobbied-lord-chancellor-husband-charlie-kv68bvd7f
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,872
    Watching this is the closest I'll get to going on a Gay Pride march without actually going on a Gay Pride march.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,163
    I'm not particularly interested in it.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,188

    Watching this is the closest I'll get to going on a Gay Pride march without actually going on a Gay Pride march.

    You should go on gay pride marches, you'd love it.

    I've been going to them since I was 19, the music is awesome, the dancing even better. The booze is cheap.

    I even ended up with my own fag hags as I was seen as an ally of the LGBT community.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,872
    Can someone please explain the new voting system to me?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Vote early, vote often:

    https://eurovision.tv/app
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366

    The UK chose a terrible song and a terrible performer. Get rid.

    Because its a joke contest that serious musicians don't enter.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,631

    I'm not particularly interested in it.

    Good evening

    I would rather watch paint dry
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366

    I'm not particularly interested in it.

    Good evening

    I would rather watch paint dry
    I want a real Brexit where we no longer have to be involved.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,188
    edited May 11
    Anyhoo, I am not joking, but I have been told the genuine reason why Natalie Elphicke defected.

    She's trying to get planning permission to convert a garage into flats that she owns in her constituency but locals have objected to her plans.

    The Labour run council can overrule the local objections so defecting to Labour she thinks they will support one of their own.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,872

    Watching this is the closest I'll get to going on a Gay Pride march without actually going on a Gay Pride march.

    You should go on gay pride marches, you'd love it.

    I've been going to them since I was 19, the music is awesome, the dancing even better. The booze is cheap.

    I even ended up with my own fag hags as I was seen as an ally of the LGBT community.
    I once went to a gay club for the music, and had my bottom-pinched all night.

    I had a difficult job explaining all-night I wasn't gay, and the vibe was a bit off as a result.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,527

    I'm not particularly interested in it.

    Thanks. One likes to be kept abreast of these developments.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,872

    Can someone please explain the new voting system to me?

    It's not as good as the alternative vote system.
    I walked into that one, didn't I.
  • megasaurmegasaur Posts: 586

    On the eve of her husband’s criminal trial for sex offences in July 2020, Natalie Elphicke arrived at the parliamentary office of Robert Buckland, who as lord chancellor and justice secretary was responsible for upholding the rule of law.

    Elphicke had secured the meeting through Sir Mark Spencer, the Conservative Party chief whip. She assured him she did not wish to discuss the plight of her partner, Charlie, whom she had recently succeeded as MP for Dover and whose innocence she had spent years publicly protesting even as several women made claims of sexual assault to the police. She wished to discuss only some general concerns about the justice system.

    The opposite was true.

    Immediately after entering Buckland’s room on the ministerial corridor, she turned to the topic of her husband: the man who, in a newspaper article three years earlier, she had described as a victim of “injustice heaped upon injustice” having been “thrown to the wolves”.

    To the shock of those present, Elphicke, 53, lobbied Buckland to interfere in the upcoming hearing of the case. She told him she felt it was unfair that his case was the first to be heard at Southwark crown court after lockdown and that was being overseen by Lady Justice Whipple, who, as presiding judge of the southeastern circuit, was one of the most senior judges in the land.

    Her comments were interpreted by one person in the room as an attempt to have the case moved to a lower-profile court to spare her husband public scrutiny. Another saw it as an effort to replace Whipple, who Elphicke apparently felt would be overly-strict. It is claimed that she spoke with an air of entitlement and as though Buckland should intervene to stop him being “singled out”.

    Buckland immediately objected, insisting the conversation could go no further, and declined to help. He feared it would be “outrageous” for him to interfere with the administration of justice by helping a fellow Conservative MP or her husband, also a former colleague. A key constitutional doctrine is that there should be a separation of powers between the principal institutions of state — including parliament and the judiciary.

    The MP for South Swindon said today: “She was told in no uncertain terms that it would have been completely inappropriate to speak to the judge about the trial at all.”

    A Labour Party spokesman said: “Natalie Elphicke totally rejects that characterisation of the meeting. If Robert Buckland had any genuine concerns about the meeting, then he should have raised them at the time, rather than making claims to the newspapers now Natalie has chosen to join the Labour Party.”


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/natalie-elphicke-lobbied-lord-chancellor-husband-charlie-kv68bvd7f

    A Lady Justice Whipple who is overly strict sounds like all my BDSM Christmases come at once
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,163
    Loving the 0.5m cube of solid beige that is the PC on the stage there doing some background stuff or other.

    Good times!!
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,037
    Can I just say to all of you watching Eurovision this evening or attending a party........
    Maaaaaaaaate
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,163

    Anyhoo, I am not joking, but I have been told the genuine reason why Natalie Elphicke defected.

    She's trying to get planning permission to convert a garage into flats that she owns in her constituency but locals have objected to her plans.

    The Labour run council can overrule the local objections so defecting to Labour she thinks they will support one of their own.

    I have said from the minute this happened that this was a really shit idea from Starmer.

    WTF was he thinking?

    Mail are claiming it is all down to Sue Gray but I can't read the paywalled detail of that story.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,163
    WillG said:

    The UK chose a terrible song and a terrible performer. Get rid.

    Because its a joke contest that serious musicians don't enter.
    Abba.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,872
    On topic, I've laid Israel.

    Might be a good song but my guess is anti-Semitism or anti-Zionism (take your pick) wins out in much of the viewers voting and maybe, subjectively, the judges too.

    I think the change to the voting system to allow voters around the world to vote 24 hours in advance can only but hurt them too; it's not big in the US but the Middle East will hugely downvote them.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,631
    edited May 11

    Anyhoo, I am not joking, but I have been told the genuine reason why Natalie Elphicke defected.

    She's trying to get planning permission to convert a garage into flats that she owns in her constituency but locals have objected to her plans.

    The Labour run council can overrule the local objections so defecting to Labour she thinks they will support one of their own.

    I have said from the minute this happened that this was a really shit idea from Starmer.

    WTF was he thinking?

    Mail are claiming it is all down to Sue Gray but I can't read the paywalled detail of that story.
    I would suggest Labour are very welcome to her, especially if this becomes the story
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,163

    Watching this is the closest I'll get to going on a Gay Pride march without actually going on a Gay Pride march.

    You should go on gay pride marches, you'd love it.

    I've been going to them since I was 19, the music is awesome, the dancing even better. The booze is cheap.

    I even ended up with my own fag hags as I was seen as an ally of the LGBT community.
    How come the booze is cheap?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,188

    Watching this is the closest I'll get to going on a Gay Pride march without actually going on a Gay Pride march.

    You should go on gay pride marches, you'd love it.

    I've been going to them since I was 19, the music is awesome, the dancing even better. The booze is cheap.

    I even ended up with my own fag hags as I was seen as an ally of the LGBT community.
    How come the booze is cheap?
    They have pride offers, every hour is happy hour.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 27,995
    edited May 11
    Don't forget to vote for your favourite nation. Don't worry about the song.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,163
    Give it rest Laura...


    Laura Kuenssberg
    @bbclaurak
    What could go wrong for Keir Starmer? A lot! Last week’s success in the local elections doesn’t mean it’s a done deal 👇🏼
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,006

    Give it rest Laura...


    Laura Kuenssberg
    @bbclaurak
    What could go wrong for Keir Starmer? A lot! Last week’s success in the local elections doesn’t mean it’s a done deal 👇🏼

    Obviously a Prof Thrasher fan.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,163

    Watching this is the closest I'll get to going on a Gay Pride march without actually going on a Gay Pride march.

    You should go on gay pride marches, you'd love it.

    I've been going to them since I was 19, the music is awesome, the dancing even better. The booze is cheap.

    I even ended up with my own fag hags as I was seen as an ally of the LGBT community.
    How come the booze is cheap?
    They have pride offers, every hour is happy hour.
    "It's happy hour again, and again, and again"
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 4,353

    On topic, I've laid Israel.

    Might be a good song but my guess is anti-Semitism or anti-Zionism (take your pick) wins out in much of the viewers voting and maybe, subjectively, the judges too.

    I think the change to the voting system to allow voters around the world to vote 24 hours in advance can only but hurt them too; it's not big in the US but the Middle East will hugely downvote them.

    Surely though that is outweighed by the fact that there is no Palestinian entry, so anti-Israel votes have nowhere to coalesce. If everyone were to vote politically re Gaza, then Israel would still win even if only 1 in 20 votes were for Israel and the rest were evenly distributed among the other countries.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,531
    Everyone knows the UK's finest entry is Scooch (2007):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XT6yOIC6ihI
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,001

    Anyhoo, I am not joking, but I have been told the genuine reason why Natalie Elphicke defected.

    She's trying to get planning permission to convert a garage into flats that she owns in her constituency but locals have objected to her plans.

    The Labour run council can overrule the local objections so defecting to Labour she thinks they will support one of their own.

    I have said from the minute this happened that this was a really shit idea from Starmer.

    WTF was he thinking?

    Mail are claiming it is all down to Sue Gray but I can't read the paywalled detail of that story.
    I would suggest Labour are very welcome to her, especially if this becomes the story
    How many of the last ten anti-Labour stories the Mail has run have turned into actual stories?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,531

    Can someone please explain the new voting system to me?

    It's not as good as the alternative vote system.
    The same AV that was rejected by UK voters by 68% to 32%? That AV?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,006

    Don't forget to vote for your favourite nation. Don't worry about the song.

    Does that mean the UK was a popular country in 1976, 1981 and 1997
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,163

    On topic, I've laid Israel.

    Might be a good song but my guess is anti-Semitism or anti-Zionism (take your pick) wins out in much of the viewers voting and maybe, subjectively, the judges too.

    I think the change to the voting system to allow voters around the world to vote 24 hours in advance can only but hurt them too; it's not big in the US but the Middle East will hugely downvote them.

    Surely though that is outweighed by the fact that there is no Palestinian entry, so anti-Israel votes have nowhere to coalesce. If everyone were to vote politically re Gaza, then Israel would still win even if only 1 in 20 votes were for Israel and the rest were evenly distributed among the other countries.
    FWIW, I have laid Israel as well.

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,531
    WillG said:

    The UK chose a terrible song and a terrible performer. Get rid.

    Because its a joke contest that serious musicians don't enter.
    Celine Dion.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,573

    WillG said:

    The UK chose a terrible song and a terrible performer. Get rid.

    Because its a joke contest that serious musicians don't enter.
    Abba.
    To counter - Brotherhood of Man.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1Lp3QFFvJE
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,531
    I am ready, man! Ready to get it on!
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,163

    Can I just say to all of you watching Eurovision this evening or attending a party........
    Maaaaaaaaate

    Moderator.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,411

    WillG said:

    The UK chose a terrible song and a terrible performer. Get rid.

    Because its a joke contest that serious musicians don't enter.
    Celine Dion.
    Thank you for proving the point with an example.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,477

    On topic, I've laid Israel.

    Might be a good song but my guess is anti-Semitism or anti-Zionism (take your pick) wins out in much of the viewers voting and maybe, subjectively, the judges too.

    I think the change to the voting system to allow voters around the world to vote 24 hours in advance can only but hurt them too; it's not big in the US but the Middle East will hugely downvote them.

    Israel is drawn 5 and generally the early slots do badly as by the end, after people have listened to all of them in order to make a voting decision, they have forgotten the early songs. The new early voting might help here.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,646
    MattW said:

    WillG said:

    The UK chose a terrible song and a terrible performer. Get rid.

    Because its a joke contest that serious musicians don't enter.
    Abba.
    To counter - Brotherhood of Man.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1Lp3QFFvJE
    I'm noit entirely sure that's a counter-example, tbh
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,531

    WillG said:

    The UK chose a terrible song and a terrible performer. Get rid.

    Because its a joke contest that serious musicians don't enter.
    Celine Dion.
    Thank you for proving the point with an example.
    Sir Cliff.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,163
    Going well so far.

    LOL
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,531

    Going well so far.

    LOL

    Fixed the sound - so far!
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,037

    WillG said:

    The UK chose a terrible song and a terrible performer. Get rid.

    Because its a joke contest that serious musicians don't enter.
    Abba.
    We nil pointed them iirc, because we Brits know our oats
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,646
    viewcode said:

    MattW said:

    WillG said:

    The UK chose a terrible song and a terrible performer. Get rid.

    Because its a joke contest that serious musicians don't enter.
    Abba.
    To counter - Brotherhood of Man.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1Lp3QFFvJE
    I'm noit entirely sure that's a counter-example, tbh
    This, however, would be a counter-counter-example

    https://youtu.be/hRDQmsfHpEI?si=eWWqgjbkYPVhEEOE&t=24
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,903
    Outstanding start. Bjorn Skiffs - can't believe I haven't heard of him.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,037

    WillG said:

    The UK chose a terrible song and a terrible performer. Get rid.

    Because its a joke contest that serious musicians don't enter.
    Celine Dion.
    She knows that the heart does go on. The wise old Canuck
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,163

    WillG said:

    The UK chose a terrible song and a terrible performer. Get rid.

    Because its a joke contest that serious musicians don't enter.
    Abba.
    We nil pointed them iirc, because we Brits know our oats
    I have a feeling that the UK was always their biggest sales market. I could be wrong. LOL
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,163
    I am on Serbia for £2.

    DYOR.

  • megasaurmegasaur Posts: 586

    I am ready, man! Ready to get it on!

    It won't make any difference
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,325
    edited May 11

    Give it rest Laura...


    Laura Kuenssberg
    @bbclaurak
    What could go wrong for Keir Starmer? A lot! Last week’s success in the local elections doesn’t mean it’s a done deal 👇🏼

    I don't suppose it will but the Elphicke mistake could stay being a story for a bit, and the longer it is around, the bigger this completely unforced error becomes. It is very surprising really. The two million Tory voters he needs are not voting Tory because of people like Elphicke.

    10 more mistakes like that, a bit of bad luck, stick Burgon on the front bench, SNP recover a bit, Tories release a few choice stories and some media rally round Sunak. It could all change to the point where Labour only win an extra 100 seats.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,037

    WillG said:

    The UK chose a terrible song and a terrible performer. Get rid.

    Because its a joke contest that serious musicians don't enter.
    Abba.
    We nil pointed them iirc, because we Brits know our oats
    I have a feeling that the UK was always their biggest sales market. I could be wrong. LOL
    We normally get to the party late and say we'd been there since the first canapés
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366

    WillG said:

    The UK chose a terrible song and a terrible performer. Get rid.

    Because its a joke contest that serious musicians don't enter.
    Abba.
    Ditzy kitch eurotrash.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 27,995
    Andy_JS said:

    Don't forget to vote for your favourite nation. Don't worry about the song.

    Does that mean the UK was a popular country in 1976, 1981 and 1997
    No it's a modern phenomenon except for when Franco stole the win from Cliff. Congratulations General!

    Love Shine a Light was the greatest winning song since Waterloo! Kimberley Rew is a vastly underrated songwriter.
  • megasaurmegasaur Posts: 586

    WillG said:

    The UK chose a terrible song and a terrible performer. Get rid.

    Because its a joke contest that serious musicians don't enter.
    Abba.
    We nil pointed them iirc, because we Brits know our oats
    I have always thought that Rasputin by Boney M left Waterloo in the dust when it came to preposterously silly history based songs.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,163

    WillG said:

    The UK chose a terrible song and a terrible performer. Get rid.

    Because its a joke contest that serious musicians don't enter.
    Abba.
    We nil pointed them iirc, because we Brits know our oats
    I have a feeling that the UK was always their biggest sales market. I could be wrong. LOL
    We normally get to the party late and say we'd been there since the first canapés
    Hold on - ABBA won when the UK hosted the competition.

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,163
    algarkirk said:

    Give it rest Laura...


    Laura Kuenssberg
    @bbclaurak
    What could go wrong for Keir Starmer? A lot! Last week’s success in the local elections doesn’t mean it’s a done deal 👇🏼

    I don't suppose it will but the Elphicke mistake could stay being a story for a bit, and the longer it is around, the bigger this completely unforced error becomes. It is very surprising really. The two million Tory voters he needs are not voting Tory because of people like Elphicke.

    10 more mistakes like that, a bit of bad luck, stick Burgon on the front bench, SNP recover a bit, Tories release a few choice stories and some media rally round Sunak. It could all change to the point where Labour only win an extra 100 seats.
    IMHO it is by far Starmer's biggest unforced error.

    I guess it all sounded fantastic in a sweaty room with shit coffee late in the evening talking it all through.

    But it is a crap decision.

    There is no gain imho whatsoever.

  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,037

    WillG said:

    The UK chose a terrible song and a terrible performer. Get rid.

    Because its a joke contest that serious musicians don't enter.
    Abba.
    We nil pointed them iirc, because we Brits know our oats
    I have a feeling that the UK was always their biggest sales market. I could be wrong. LOL
    We normally get to the party late and say we'd been there since the first canapés
    Hold on - ABBA won when the UK hosted the competition.

    This is a truthful statement, yes
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,872

    On topic, I've laid Israel.

    Might be a good song but my guess is anti-Semitism or anti-Zionism (take your pick) wins out in much of the viewers voting and maybe, subjectively, the judges too.

    I think the change to the voting system to allow voters around the world to vote 24 hours in advance can only but hurt them too; it's not big in the US but the Middle East will hugely downvote them.

    Surely though that is outweighed by the fact that there is no Palestinian entry, so anti-Israel votes have nowhere to coalesce. If everyone were to vote politically re Gaza, then Israel would still win even if only 1 in 20 votes were for Israel and the rest were evenly distributed among the other countries.
    Why wouldn't they coalesce around Croatia as the favourite?
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,253

    Give it rest Laura...


    Laura Kuenssberg
    @bbclaurak
    What could go wrong for Keir Starmer? A lot! Last week’s success in the local elections doesn’t mean it’s a done deal 👇🏼

    She's right of course. It could. But it won't, no matter how much she might wish for it.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    On the eve of her husband’s criminal trial for sex offences in July 2020, Natalie Elphicke arrived at the parliamentary office of Robert Buckland, who as lord chancellor and justice secretary was responsible for upholding the rule of law.

    Elphicke had secured the meeting through Sir Mark Spencer, the Conservative Party chief whip. She assured him she did not wish to discuss the plight of her partner, Charlie, whom she had recently succeeded as MP for Dover and whose innocence she had spent years publicly protesting even as several women made claims of sexual assault to the police. She wished to discuss only some general concerns about the justice system.

    The opposite was true.

    Immediately after entering Buckland’s room on the ministerial corridor, she turned to the topic of her husband: the man who, in a newspaper article three years earlier, she had described as a victim of “injustice heaped upon injustice” having been “thrown to the wolves”.

    To the shock of those present, Elphicke, 53, lobbied Buckland to interfere in the upcoming hearing of the case. She told him she felt it was unfair that his case was the first to be heard at Southwark crown court after lockdown and that was being overseen by Lady Justice Whipple, who, as presiding judge of the southeastern circuit, was one of the most senior judges in the land.

    Her comments were interpreted by one person in the room as an attempt to have the case moved to a lower-profile court to spare her husband public scrutiny. Another saw it as an effort to replace Whipple, who Elphicke apparently felt would be overly-strict. It is claimed that she spoke with an air of entitlement and as though Buckland should intervene to stop him being “singled out”.

    Buckland immediately objected, insisting the conversation could go no further, and declined to help. He feared it would be “outrageous” for him to interfere with the administration of justice by helping a fellow Conservative MP or her husband, also a former colleague. A key constitutional doctrine is that there should be a separation of powers between the principal institutions of state — including parliament and the judiciary.

    The MP for South Swindon said today: “She was told in no uncertain terms that it would have been completely inappropriate to speak to the judge about the trial at all.”

    A Labour Party spokesman said: “Natalie Elphicke totally rejects that characterisation of the meeting. If Robert Buckland had any genuine concerns about the meeting, then he should have raised them at the time, rather than making claims to the newspapers now Natalie has chosen to join the Labour Party.”


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/natalie-elphicke-lobbied-lord-chancellor-husband-charlie-kv68bvd7f

    Seems a bit petty, and too nakedly self interested of the Tories to only leak this story now
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,872

    algarkirk said:

    Give it rest Laura...


    Laura Kuenssberg
    @bbclaurak
    What could go wrong for Keir Starmer? A lot! Last week’s success in the local elections doesn’t mean it’s a done deal 👇🏼

    I don't suppose it will but the Elphicke mistake could stay being a story for a bit, and the longer it is around, the bigger this completely unforced error becomes. It is very surprising really. The two million Tory voters he needs are not voting Tory because of people like Elphicke.

    10 more mistakes like that, a bit of bad luck, stick Burgon on the front bench, SNP recover a bit, Tories release a few choice stories and some media rally round Sunak. It could all change to the point where Labour only win an extra 100 seats.
    IMHO it is by far Starmer's biggest unforced error.

    I guess it all sounded fantastic in a sweaty room with shit coffee late in the evening talking it all through.

    But it is a crap decision.

    There is no gain imho whatsoever.

    Maybe it takes a Tory to spot what a brilliant move it is.

    I think it's his best yet. He's entirely disingenuous of course but also ruthless.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,037

    algarkirk said:

    Give it rest Laura...


    Laura Kuenssberg
    @bbclaurak
    What could go wrong for Keir Starmer? A lot! Last week’s success in the local elections doesn’t mean it’s a done deal 👇🏼

    I don't suppose it will but the Elphicke mistake could stay being a story for a bit, and the longer it is around, the bigger this completely unforced error becomes. It is very surprising really. The two million Tory voters he needs are not voting Tory because of people like Elphicke.

    10 more mistakes like that, a bit of bad luck, stick Burgon on the front bench, SNP recover a bit, Tories release a few choice stories and some media rally round Sunak. It could all change to the point where Labour only win an extra 100 seats.
    IMHO it is by far Starmer's biggest unforced error.

    I guess it all sounded fantastic in a sweaty room with shit coffee late in the evening talking it all through.

    But it is a crap decision.

    There is no gain imho whatsoever.

    Strict no returns policy needs enforcing
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,477
    algarkirk said:

    Give it rest Laura...


    Laura Kuenssberg
    @bbclaurak
    What could go wrong for Keir Starmer? A lot! Last week’s success in the local elections doesn’t mean it’s a done deal 👇🏼

    I don't suppose it will but the Elphicke mistake could stay being a story for a bit, and the longer it is around, the bigger this completely unforced error becomes. It is very surprising really. The two million Tory voters he needs are not voting Tory because of people like Elphicke.

    10 more mistakes like that, a bit of bad luck, stick Burgon on the front bench, SNP recover a bit, Tories release a few choice stories and some media rally round Sunak. It could all change to the point where Labour only win an extra 100 seats.
    Elphicke is reminiscent of Gordon Brown inviting Mrs Thatcher for tea. An unforced error probably inspired by Lord Mandelson. It alienates Labour supporters and does not attract, as you say, moderate Tories.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    The tide continues to turn:

    The Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) has rewritten advice suggesting misgendering your partner or refusing them money for gender surgery constitutes domestic abuse.

    The CPS has ditched and redrafted the advice for prosecutors after criticism from women’s campaigners who claimed it was “detrimental to women’s trust and confidence” in the service.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/05/10/misgendering-your-partner-is-not-domestic-abuse-says-cps/
  • gettingbettergettingbetter Posts: 535

    On topic, I've laid Israel.

    Might be a good song but my guess is anti-Semitism or anti-Zionism (take your pick) wins out in much of the viewers voting and maybe, subjectively, the judges too.

    I think the change to the voting system to allow voters around the world to vote 24 hours in advance can only but hurt them too; it's not big in the US but the Middle East will hugely downvote them.

    Surely though that is outweighed by the fact that there is no Palestinian entry, so anti-Israel votes have nowhere to coalesce. If everyone were to vote politically re Gaza, then Israel would still win even if only 1 in 20 votes were for Israel and the rest were evenly distributed among the other countries.
    FWIW, I have laid Israel as well.

    Me too. I'm stopping now as I have done 4k and the wife will be stressed if she finds out I stand to lose 16k.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 27,995

    Give it rest Laura...


    Laura Kuenssberg
    @bbclaurak
    What could go wrong for Keir Starmer? A lot! Last week’s success in the local elections doesn’t mean it’s a done deal 👇🏼

    She's right of course. It could. But it won't, no matter how much she might wish for it.
    We've finally got a partisan editorial stance from the BBC. It was inevitable after CeeGeebies have been allowed to shill for a political party/ cause without real sanction.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,872

    On topic, I've laid Israel.

    Might be a good song but my guess is anti-Semitism or anti-Zionism (take your pick) wins out in much of the viewers voting and maybe, subjectively, the judges too.

    I think the change to the voting system to allow voters around the world to vote 24 hours in advance can only but hurt them too; it's not big in the US but the Middle East will hugely downvote them.

    Surely though that is outweighed by the fact that there is no Palestinian entry, so anti-Israel votes have nowhere to coalesce. If everyone were to vote politically re Gaza, then Israel would still win even if only 1 in 20 votes were for Israel and the rest were evenly distributed among the other countries.
    FWIW, I have laid Israel as well.

    Me too. I'm stopping now as I have done 4k and the wife will be stressed if she finds out I stand to lose 16k.
    Jesus. I only play with my pecker, not the bank.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,356
    Lots of vote ramping on the net so anything could happen. I have Italy for top 5 eq it has been very popular on streaming platforms.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,631

    Anyhoo, I am not joking, but I have been told the genuine reason why Natalie Elphicke defected.

    She's trying to get planning permission to convert a garage into flats that she owns in her constituency but locals have objected to her plans.

    The Labour run council can overrule the local objections so defecting to Labour she thinks they will support one of their own.

    I have said from the minute this happened that this was a really shit idea from Starmer.

    WTF was he thinking?

    Mail are claiming it is all down to Sue Gray but I can't read the paywalled detail of that story.
    I would suggest Labour are very welcome to her, especially if this becomes the story
    How many of the last ten anti-Labour stories the Mail has run have turned into actual stories?
    I didn't see it in the mail to be fair
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 27,995

    On topic, I've laid Israel.

    Might be a good song but my guess is anti-Semitism or anti-Zionism (take your pick) wins out in much of the viewers voting and maybe, subjectively, the judges too.

    I think the change to the voting system to allow voters around the world to vote 24 hours in advance can only but hurt them too; it's not big in the US but the Middle East will hugely downvote them.

    Surely though that is outweighed by the fact that there is no Palestinian entry, so anti-Israel votes have nowhere to coalesce. If everyone were to vote politically re Gaza, then Israel would still win even if only 1 in 20 votes were for Israel and the rest were evenly distributed among the other countries.
    FWIW, I have laid Israel as well.

    Me too. I'm stopping now as I have done 4k and the wife will be stressed if she finds out I stand to lose 16k.
    That's hardcore for something as subjective as Eurovision, particularly as form and quality don't count for ****.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,872

    On topic, I've laid Israel.

    Might be a good song but my guess is anti-Semitism or anti-Zionism (take your pick) wins out in much of the viewers voting and maybe, subjectively, the judges too.

    I think the change to the voting system to allow voters around the world to vote 24 hours in advance can only but hurt them too; it's not big in the US but the Middle East will hugely downvote them.

    Surely though that is outweighed by the fact that there is no Palestinian entry, so anti-Israel votes have nowhere to coalesce. If everyone were to vote politically re Gaza, then Israel would still win even if only 1 in 20 votes were for Israel and the rest were evenly distributed among the other countries.
    FWIW, I have laid Israel as well.

    Me too. I'm stopping now as I have done 4k and the wife will be stressed if she finds out I stand to lose 16k.
    That's hardcore for something as subjective as Eurovision, particularly as form and quality don't count for ****.
    It's stressing me out and I'm not even part of his family.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,646

    On topic, I've laid Israel.

    Might be a good song but my guess is anti-Semitism or anti-Zionism (take your pick) wins out in much of the viewers voting and maybe, subjectively, the judges too.

    I think the change to the voting system to allow voters around the world to vote 24 hours in advance can only but hurt them too; it's not big in the US but the Middle East will hugely downvote them.

    Surely though that is outweighed by the fact that there is no Palestinian entry, so anti-Israel votes have nowhere to coalesce. If everyone were to vote politically re Gaza, then Israel would still win even if only 1 in 20 votes were for Israel and the rest were evenly distributed among the other countries.
    FWIW, I have laid Israel as well.

    Me too. I'm stopping now as I have done 4k and the wife will be stressed if she finds out I stand to lose 16k.
    Well, good luck. Quick check: can you cover the loss?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,518
    £3 for 20 votes for Israel. I've spent £3 on a lot worse stuff... I think it's 60 votes from this household, two UK numbers and one Swiss phone number.
  • The_WoodpeckerThe_Woodpecker Posts: 450

    algarkirk said:

    Give it rest Laura...


    Laura Kuenssberg
    @bbclaurak
    What could go wrong for Keir Starmer? A lot! Last week’s success in the local elections doesn’t mean it’s a done deal 👇🏼

    I don't suppose it will but the Elphicke mistake could stay being a story for a bit, and the longer it is around, the bigger this completely unforced error becomes. It is very surprising really. The two million Tory voters he needs are not voting Tory because of people like Elphicke.

    10 more mistakes like that, a bit of bad luck, stick Burgon on the front bench, SNP recover a bit, Tories release a few choice stories and some media rally round Sunak. It could all change to the point where Labour only win an extra 100 seats.
    Elphicke is reminiscent of Gordon Brown inviting Mrs Thatcher for tea. An unforced error probably inspired by Lord Mandelson. It alienates Labour supporters and does not attract, as you say, moderate Tories.
    I agree it alienates Labour supporters BUT it undercuts Rishi's small boats policy too.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,531
    megasaur said:

    WillG said:

    The UK chose a terrible song and a terrible performer. Get rid.

    Because its a joke contest that serious musicians don't enter.
    Abba.
    We nil pointed them iirc, because we Brits know our oats
    I have always thought that Rasputin by Boney M left Waterloo in the dust when it came to preposterously silly history based songs.
    OH, those Russians!
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,872
    Luxembourg not awful. Particularly since it's not Juncker on stage tonight.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,531
    Israel!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,028
    edited May 11

    megasaur said:

    WillG said:

    The UK chose a terrible song and a terrible performer. Get rid.

    Because its a joke contest that serious musicians don't enter.
    Abba.
    We nil pointed them iirc, because we Brits know our oats
    I have always thought that Rasputin by Boney M left Waterloo in the dust when it came to preposterously silly history based songs.
    OH, those Russians!
    Shame the Russians didn't have Freddie Mercury's band.

    Then their fans would be 'lover of Russian Queen.'
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,903

    On topic, I've laid Israel.

    Might be a good song but my guess is anti-Semitism or anti-Zionism (take your pick) wins out in much of the viewers voting and maybe, subjectively, the judges too.

    I think the change to the voting system to allow voters around the world to vote 24 hours in advance can only but hurt them too; it's not big in the US but the Middle East will hugely downvote them.

    Surely though that is outweighed by the fact that there is no Palestinian entry, so anti-Israel votes have nowhere to coalesce. If everyone were to vote politically re Gaza, then Israel would still win even if only 1 in 20 votes were for Israel and the rest were evenly distributed among the other countries.
    That's why I'm on them. I wish I'd done the 66 though. By the time I thought about it they were 5.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,001
    isam said:

    On the eve of her husband’s criminal trial for sex offences in July 2020, Natalie Elphicke arrived at the parliamentary office of Robert Buckland, who as lord chancellor and justice secretary was responsible for upholding the rule of law.

    Elphicke had secured the meeting through Sir Mark Spencer, the Conservative Party chief whip. She assured him she did not wish to discuss the plight of her partner, Charlie, whom she had recently succeeded as MP for Dover and whose innocence she had spent years publicly protesting even as several women made claims of sexual assault to the police. She wished to discuss only some general concerns about the justice system.

    The opposite was true.

    Immediately after entering Buckland’s room on the ministerial corridor, she turned to the topic of her husband: the man who, in a newspaper article three years earlier, she had described as a victim of “injustice heaped upon injustice” having been “thrown to the wolves”.

    To the shock of those present, Elphicke, 53, lobbied Buckland to interfere in the upcoming hearing of the case. She told him she felt it was unfair that his case was the first to be heard at Southwark crown court after lockdown and that was being overseen by Lady Justice Whipple, who, as presiding judge of the southeastern circuit, was one of the most senior judges in the land.

    Her comments were interpreted by one person in the room as an attempt to have the case moved to a lower-profile court to spare her husband public scrutiny. Another saw it as an effort to replace Whipple, who Elphicke apparently felt would be overly-strict. It is claimed that she spoke with an air of entitlement and as though Buckland should intervene to stop him being “singled out”.

    Buckland immediately objected, insisting the conversation could go no further, and declined to help. He feared it would be “outrageous” for him to interfere with the administration of justice by helping a fellow Conservative MP or her husband, also a former colleague. A key constitutional doctrine is that there should be a separation of powers between the principal institutions of state — including parliament and the judiciary.

    The MP for South Swindon said today: “She was told in no uncertain terms that it would have been completely inappropriate to speak to the judge about the trial at all.”

    A Labour Party spokesman said: “Natalie Elphicke totally rejects that characterisation of the meeting. If Robert Buckland had any genuine concerns about the meeting, then he should have raised them at the time, rather than making claims to the newspapers now Natalie has chosen to join the Labour Party.”


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/natalie-elphicke-lobbied-lord-chancellor-husband-charlie-kv68bvd7f

    Seems a bit petty, and too nakedly self interested of the Tories to only leak this story now
    On one hand, the whips had no choice. Threatening to dish the dirt on errant MPs is one of the tools in their armoury, and you have to be prepared to carry out threats you make, or you lose credibility for the next encounter.

    On the other, the Elphicke farago shows the limits of the Whips' Black Book. If her behaviour was really that awful, why did the Conservative party do nothing about it before Wednesday lunchtime?

    And whilst it's unlikely that NE has brought many voters across from Conservative to Labour with her, depressing the Conservative vote (to either Reform or seeing what's on telly) is the next best thing for Team Keir.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 17,973
    I might have been a bit quick to dismiss the merits of the opening act given the ones that have followed.
  • DonkeysDonkeys Posts: 723
    edited May 11
    It seems the USA has already built a pier on the Gaza coast, at one end of the Netzarim corridor dividing the north and south that's already been taken over by the Israeli military. (And the Israelis are attacking in both north and south right now.) This map is from Al-Jazeera:

    image

    I wonder where on the island of Cyprus the detention camp will be located.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,646

    I might have been a bit quick to dismiss the merits of the opening act given the ones that have followed.

    I'm not sure Eurovision is judged on musical merit, tbh... :(
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,573
    viewcode said:

    MattW said:

    WillG said:

    The UK chose a terrible song and a terrible performer. Get rid.

    Because its a joke contest that serious musicians don't enter.
    Abba.
    To counter - Brotherhood of Man.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1Lp3QFFvJE
    I'm noit entirely sure that's a counter-example, tbh
    I question your judgement :smile:
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,179

    Luxembourg not awful. Particularly since it's not Juncker on stage tonight.

    They’re going for douze points from France.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,903

    On topic, I've laid Israel.

    Might be a good song but my guess is anti-Semitism or anti-Zionism (take your pick) wins out in much of the viewers voting and maybe, subjectively, the judges too.

    I think the change to the voting system to allow voters around the world to vote 24 hours in advance can only but hurt them too; it's not big in the US but the Middle East will hugely downvote them.

    Surely though that is outweighed by the fact that there is no Palestinian entry, so anti-Israel votes have nowhere to coalesce. If everyone were to vote politically re Gaza, then Israel would still win even if only 1 in 20 votes were for Israel and the rest were evenly distributed among the other countries.
    FWIW, I have laid Israel as well.

    Me too. I'm stopping now as I have done 4k and the wife will be stressed if she finds out I stand to lose 16k.
    Jeez. I hope I don't win my £5 to £25 then.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,477
    viewcode said:

    I might have been a bit quick to dismiss the merits of the opening act given the ones that have followed.

    I'm not sure Eurovision is judged on musical merit, tbh... :(
    That's the thing. It is. Well, sort of. Remember half the verdict comes from the Technical Jury, and half the public vote.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,872

    Luxembourg not awful. Particularly since it's not Juncker on stage tonight.

    They’re going for douze points from France.
    It's available at 1,000/1 - so I presume someone knows they've already lost, this isn't a clean fight - but I've still dropped £2 on it in case public voting surprises and they come in.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 17,973
    edited May 11
    viewcode said:

    I might have been a bit quick to dismiss the merits of the opening act given the ones that have followed.

    I'm not sure Eurovision is judged on musical merit, tbh... :(
    Eurovision has its own scale of merit which I try to get into the spirit of. I at least have some good beer for the evening.

    Lithuania I think are above par.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,477

    viewcode said:

    I might have been a bit quick to dismiss the merits of the opening act given the ones that have followed.

    I'm not sure Eurovision is judged on musical merit, tbh... :(
    That's the thing. It is. Well, sort of. Remember half the verdict comes from the Technical Jury, and half the public vote.
    Btw the jury votes are already decided on the basis of the rehearsal yesterday so will not be affected by audience reaction tonight.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,179
    viewcode said:

    I might have been a bit quick to dismiss the merits of the opening act given the ones that have followed.

    I'm not sure Eurovision is judged on musical merit, tbh... :(
    We need Dominic Cummings to organise the UK entry, with targeted Facebook ads across Europe.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,646
    edited May 11
    MattW said:

    viewcode said:

    MattW said:

    WillG said:

    The UK chose a terrible song and a terrible performer. Get rid.

    Because its a joke contest that serious musicians don't enter.
    Abba.
    To counter - Brotherhood of Man.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1Lp3QFFvJE
    I'm noit entirely sure that's a counter-example, tbh
    I question your judgement :smile:
    I've just sat thru two episodes of the new Doctor Who and I'm now looking at a political betting website with people waging £16k on a song. If I retaliate with "well I question your questioning, hah!" and flounce off, we may enter a camp event horizon so dense that even glitter could not escape its grasp...

    😀😀😀
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,670
    ydoethur said:

    megasaur said:

    WillG said:

    The UK chose a terrible song and a terrible performer. Get rid.

    Because its a joke contest that serious musicians don't enter.
    Abba.
    We nil pointed them iirc, because we Brits know our oats
    I have always thought that Rasputin by Boney M left Waterloo in the dust when it came to preposterously silly history based songs.
    OH, those Russians!
    Shame the Russians didn't have Freddie Mercury's band.

    Then their fans would be 'lover of Russian Queen.'
    That reminds me of a random Youtube recommendation I had recently :

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maFlRR-zt4g

    "Dschinghis Khan - Dschinghis Khan (Disco 26.03.1979)"

    Think "Ra! Ra! Rasputin!", but much worse.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,477

    Luxembourg not awful. Particularly since it's not Juncker on stage tonight.

    They’re going for douze points from France.
    It's available at 1,000/1 - so I presume someone knows they've already lost, this isn't a clean fight - but I've still dropped £2 on it in case public voting surprises and they come in.
    You do know there is betting on who comes last? It is a very thin market on Betfair though. Luxembourg are 6/1.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,006

    The UK chose a terrible song and a terrible performer. Get rid.

    That description could have been used on quite a few occasions over the last 20 years.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,872

    viewcode said:

    I might have been a bit quick to dismiss the merits of the opening act given the ones that have followed.

    I'm not sure Eurovision is judged on musical merit, tbh... :(
    We need Dominic Cummings to organise the UK entry, with targeted Facebook ads across Europe.
    Has Cummings wargamed this?
  • gettingbettergettingbetter Posts: 535
    viewcode said:

    On topic, I've laid Israel.

    Might be a good song but my guess is anti-Semitism or anti-Zionism (take your pick) wins out in much of the viewers voting and maybe, subjectively, the judges too.

    I think the change to the voting system to allow voters around the world to vote 24 hours in advance can only but hurt them too; it's not big in the US but the Middle East will hugely downvote them.

    Surely though that is outweighed by the fact that there is no Palestinian entry, so anti-Israel votes have nowhere to coalesce. If everyone were to vote politically re Gaza, then Israel would still win even if only 1 in 20 votes were for Israel and the rest were evenly distributed among the other countries.
    FWIW, I have laid Israel as well.

    Me too. I'm stopping now as I have done 4k and the wife will be stressed if she finds out I stand to lose 16k.
    Well, good luck. Quick check: can you cover the loss?
    Yes I suppose so. I enjoy betting on these sort of things but I havent really enjoyed the Uk songs in recent years. As I child I loved Sandy Shaw's Puppet on a String.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited May 11

    isam said:

    On the eve of her husband’s criminal trial for sex offences in July 2020, Natalie Elphicke arrived at the parliamentary office of Robert Buckland, who as lord chancellor and justice secretary was responsible for upholding the rule of law.

    Elphicke had secured the meeting through Sir Mark Spencer, the Conservative Party chief whip. She assured him she did not wish to discuss the plight of her partner, Charlie, whom she had recently succeeded as MP for Dover and whose innocence she had spent years publicly protesting even as several women made claims of sexual assault to the police. She wished to discuss only some general concerns about the justice system.

    The opposite was true.

    Immediately after entering Buckland’s room on the ministerial corridor, she turned to the topic of her husband: the man who, in a newspaper article three years earlier, she had described as a victim of “injustice heaped upon injustice” having been “thrown to the wolves”.

    To the shock of those present, Elphicke, 53, lobbied Buckland to interfere in the upcoming hearing of the case. She told him she felt it was unfair that his case was the first to be heard at Southwark crown court after lockdown and that was being overseen by Lady Justice Whipple, who, as presiding judge of the southeastern circuit, was one of the most senior judges in the land.

    Her comments were interpreted by one person in the room as an attempt to have the case moved to a lower-profile court to spare her husband public scrutiny. Another saw it as an effort to replace Whipple, who Elphicke apparently felt would be overly-strict. It is claimed that she spoke with an air of entitlement and as though Buckland should intervene to stop him being “singled out”.

    Buckland immediately objected, insisting the conversation could go no further, and declined to help. He feared it would be “outrageous” for him to interfere with the administration of justice by helping a fellow Conservative MP or her husband, also a former colleague. A key constitutional doctrine is that there should be a separation of powers between the principal institutions of state — including parliament and the judiciary.

    The MP for South Swindon said today: “She was told in no uncertain terms that it would have been completely inappropriate to speak to the judge about the trial at all.”

    A Labour Party spokesman said: “Natalie Elphicke totally rejects that characterisation of the meeting. If Robert Buckland had any genuine concerns about the meeting, then he should have raised them at the time, rather than making claims to the newspapers now Natalie has chosen to join the Labour Party.”


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/natalie-elphicke-lobbied-lord-chancellor-husband-charlie-kv68bvd7f

    Seems a bit petty, and too nakedly self interested of the Tories to only leak this story now
    On one hand, the whips had no choice. Threatening to dish the dirt on errant MPs is one of the tools in their armoury, and you have to be prepared to carry out threats you make, or you lose credibility for the next encounter.

    On the other, the Elphicke farago shows the limits of the Whips' Black Book. If her behaviour was really that awful, why did the Conservative party do nothing about it before Wednesday lunchtime?

    And whilst it's unlikely that NE has brought many voters across from Conservative to Labour with her, depressing the Conservative vote (to either Reform or seeing what's on telly) is the next best thing for Team Keir.
    I laid Labour again upon seeing Sir Keir’s interview this morning about Elphicke; he is so stiff & awkward that it’s not a 6/1 shot he messes up the campaign a la Theresa May
This discussion has been closed.