Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

If it were done when ’tis done, then ’twere wellIt were done quickly – politicalbetting.com

24567

Comments

  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,200
    All Yousaf had to do was agree jointly with the Greens to dissolve the Bute agreement. Not sure what he was thinking when he dumped them unceremoniously . To then expect them to back him was delusional.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,473

    This is disturbing.

    A former minister sanctioned by China was detained and deported by an East African country with close ties to the Chinese state, The Telegraph can reveal.

    Tim Loughton, a senior member of the Commons’ home affairs committee, believes his unprecedented and “intimidating” detention and expulsion by the Djibouti authorities was a “direct consequence” of his criticism of the Chinese regime.

    It is understood the Foreign Office is seeking an explanation from the Djiboutis over his treatment. Mr Loughton has raised the affair with Andrew Mitchell, the deputy Foreign Secretary, and written to the Djibouti ambassador via the Foreign Office to protest about the “outrageous” behaviour.

    Mr Loughton arrived in Djibouti on April 8 for a 24-hour visit including meeting the British ambassador, but was detained for more than seven hours at the airport, barred entry to the country and told he was being removed on the next available flight.

    Mr Loughton is one of seven parliamentarians sanctioned by the Chinese more than three years ago for speaking out against the “industrial scale” of human rights abuses by China against the Uighurs, Tibetans and Hong Kongers.

    Djibouti, Africa’s smallest nation, has received billions of dollars of investment from China, including a new stadium, hospital and $1 billion (£791 million) space port. China has built a naval base in the country, stationed 2,000 troops there and holds more than $1.4 billion of Djibouti’s debt, 45 per cent of its GDP.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/04/28/tim-loughton-djibouti-detained-deported-china-sanctions/

    I'm pretty sure its been warned on here that a significant number of African countries are once again colonies, just economic colonies and not European powers but the Chinese now.

    How and where this ends up, I've no idea, as these countries themselves are one day going to wake up and suddenly realise (if they haven't already) that they're just Chinese puppets rather than European ones.
    I think that's pretty simplistic. Chinese interests in Africa go back to Mao's times, and are not particularly driven by mineral interests, or at least no more than Western interests are. African exports are primary products in the main so inevitably agricultural or mineral. There is some central direction by the CCP, but not much, more a surplus of savings looking for good areas to invest. They are buying up other places like SE Asia, Latin America and of course UK assets. Are we also a Chinese colony now?

    Chinese investment is welcome in much of Africa, and must of it is on commercial rather than aid terms, because it comes with few strings other than the One China policy of not recognising Taiwan. No pesky requirements for democratic accountability or human rights for example
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,696

    Scott_xP said:

    @akmaciver

    Quiet news day @STVNews #HumzaYousaf #RishiSunak


    Rebels plotting against Rishi is barely newsworthy. It's as regular as the ticking of a clock.
    Are rebels plotting against Rishi, or are a few excitable backbenchers (and would-be leadership candidates) noisily hoping that someone, somewhere is plotting to bring down and replace the Prime Minister?
    Maybe Kate Forbes could become the new Conservative Party leader?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,749
    edited April 29

    TOPPING said:

    As all here may be aware, I yield to no one in my left wing, bring 'em all over, that mug is not in my name, sure I may have been at war with and dropping bombs on them but now I am a big fan and support their struggle against the evil oppressor, pro-immigration stance.

    But Ireland may inadvertently be giving Rishi the support he needs wrt his immigration/Rwanda policy. Pass a law saying they must go back to the last country they came from, eh? Well I never.

    Ireland is in La Francophonie, so Im sure President Macron will do his utmost to help out.
    Perhaps I missed it, but I don't think any French government minister was so dim as to claim credit for asylum seekers crossing the Channel in small boats. None of them said, "you see, our policy to scare asylum seekers to go elsewhere is working," and thereby accept responsibility for it.

    Sunak has accepted that his policy dumps asylum seekers on Ireland, that he is essentially in the same position as Belarus, shoving people across the Polish border, and so that puts Ireland in a much stronger position to demand that he does something about it.

    If he hadn't been so stupid he would have responded to the Irish claims with a gallic shrug, said that the Rwanda policy was intended to stop the boat crossings, and left British voters to join the dots. But he couldn't help himself.
    A key problem with the Rwanda scheme is that it seems unlikely to work, so Sunak and the policy's supporters have fallen on the Irish government's comments like a thirsty man in a desert finding a spring. The value of someone saying "it's working" (even though they are doing so for their own political reasons) is worth more to Sunak than the cost of having to clear up the mess that follows admitting he's shoving people across the Irish border.
    I can understand opponents to the Rwanda scheme dismissing the Irish development but this is a real issue between Ireland and UK that will draw France and the EU into it and hopefully see cooperation and more importantly determination across thee countries to stop the boats once and for all and make Rwanda scheme redundant

    Of course this would be a political result for Sunak but for me stopping the boats is about saving lives at sea not least because our family have lost several family members at sea and why our youngest son is an active RNLI sea going volunteer

  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,796
    Icarus said:

    Possible replacement for Humza, Kate Forbes, is another Marmite politician. But more serious is the possibility of an SNP MSP being suspended (Nicola Sturgeon?) or resigning which would make governing impossible.

    If they’re a list MSP (not Sturgeon obvs) the next person on the party list is shunted in. Since unlike SLab & SCons whose MSPs are mainly on the list, this is perhaps a disadvantage for the SNP.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,185

    Scott_xP said:

    @akmaciver

    Quiet news day @STVNews #HumzaYousaf #RishiSunak


    Rebels plotting against Rishi is barely newsworthy. It's as regular as the ticking of a clock.
    Are rebels plotting against Rishi, or are a few excitable backbenchers (and would-be leadership candidates) noisily hoping that someone, somewhere is plotting to bring down and replace the Prime Minister?
    Maybe Kate Forbes could become the new Conservative Party leader?
    Two slight issues with that:

    1) She isn’t a Unionist
    2) She gives the impression of being a bit too competent for the Tories at present.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    edited April 29
    ToryJim said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @akmaciver

    Quiet news day @STVNews #HumzaYousaf #RishiSunak


    Rebels plotting against Rishi is barely newsworthy. It's as regular as the ticking of a clock.
    Are rebels plotting against Rishi, or are a few excitable backbenchers (and would-be leadership candidates) noisily hoping that someone, somewhere is plotting to bring down and replace the Prime Minister?
    Maybe Kate Forbes could become the new Conservative Party leader?
    Two slight issues with that:

    1) She isn’t a Unionist
    2) She gives the impression of being a bit too competent for the Tories at present.
    I'm not convinced Forbes is competent. She manages to piss everyone off, which is a main reason she lost to Humza let's not forget. A leader needs to carry people with them.

    On your point 1, doing what you can to break the Union seems to be a necessary qualification for a Conservative these days.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190

    TOPPING said:

    As all here may be aware, I yield to no one in my left wing, bring 'em all over, that mug is not in my name, sure I may have been at war with and dropping bombs on them but now I am a big fan and support their struggle against the evil oppressor, pro-immigration stance.

    But Ireland may inadvertently be giving Rishi the support he needs wrt his immigration/Rwanda policy. Pass a law saying they must go back to the last country they came from, eh? Well I never.

    Ireland is in La Francophonie, so Im sure President Macron will do his utmost to help out.
    Perhaps I missed it, but I don't think any French government minister was so dim as to claim credit for asylum seekers crossing the Channel in small boats. None of them said, "you see, our policy to scare asylum seekers to go elsewhere is working," and thereby accept responsibility for it.

    Sunak has accepted that his policy dumps asylum seekers on Ireland, that he is essentially in the same position as Belarus, shoving people across the Polish border, and so that puts Ireland in a much stronger position to demand that he does something about it.

    If he hadn't been so stupid he would have responded to the Irish claims with a gallic shrug, said that the Rwanda policy was intended to stop the boat crossings, and left British voters to join the dots. But he couldn't help himself.
    A key problem with the Rwanda scheme is that it seems unlikely to work, so Sunak and the policy's supporters have fallen on the Irish government's comments like a thirsty man in a desert finding a spring. The value of someone saying "it's working" (even though they are doing so for their own political reasons) is worth more to Sunak than the cost of having to clear up the mess that follows admitting he's shoving people across the Irish border.
    I can understand opponents to the Rwanda scheme dismissing the Irish development but this is a real issue between Ireland and UK that will draw France and the EU into it and hopefully see cooperation and more importantly determination across thee countries to stop the boats once and for all and make Rwanda scheme redundant

    Of course this would be a political result for Sunak but for me stopping the boats is about saving lives at sea not least because our family have lost several family members at sea and why our youngest son is an active RNLI sea going volunteer

    Rwanda is all about political posturing. Wasn't it Cummings who suggested it was a smoke screen to cover up another Johnson scandal?

    I doubt very much the scheme will stop the boats. There were far more robust mechanisms that could have been explored, but a political win is a political win. The Irish issue which has become an unexpected by product is a Daily Mail win for Sunak. Will the boats stop? Very unlikely, but if 6 boats a day becomes five, Sunak will consider that a win.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    I know this isn't all about me BUT my long-arranged 2:30pm interview with Humza Yousaf this afternoon has just been cancelled...

    https://x.com/holyroodmandy/status/1784861826750030213
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,473

    TOPPING said:

    As all here may be aware, I yield to no one in my left wing, bring 'em all over, that mug is not in my name, sure I may have been at war with and dropping bombs on them but now I am a big fan and support their struggle against the evil oppressor, pro-immigration stance.

    But Ireland may inadvertently be giving Rishi the support he needs wrt his immigration/Rwanda policy. Pass a law saying they must go back to the last country they came from, eh? Well I never.

    Ireland is in La Francophonie, so Im sure President Macron will do his utmost to help out.
    Perhaps I missed it, but I don't think any French government minister was so dim as to claim credit for asylum seekers crossing the Channel in small boats. None of them said, "you see, our policy to scare asylum seekers to go elsewhere is working," and thereby accept responsibility for it.

    Sunak has accepted that his policy dumps asylum seekers on Ireland, that he is essentially in the same position as Belarus, shoving people across the Polish border, and so that puts Ireland in a much stronger position to demand that he does something about it.

    If he hadn't been so stupid he would have responded to the Irish claims with a gallic shrug, said that the Rwanda policy was intended to stop the boat crossings, and left British voters to join the dots. But he couldn't help himself.
    A key problem with the Rwanda scheme is that it seems unlikely to work, so Sunak and the policy's supporters have fallen on the Irish government's comments like a thirsty man in a desert finding a spring. The value of someone saying "it's working" (even though they are doing so for their own political reasons) is worth more to Sunak than the cost of having to clear up the mess that follows admitting he's shoving people across the Irish border.
    I can understand opponents to the Rwanda scheme dismissing the Irish development but this is a real issue between Ireland and UK that will draw France and the EU into it and hopefully see cooperation and more importantly determination across thee countries to stop the boats once and for all and make Rwanda scheme redundant

    Of course this would be a political result for Sunak but for me stopping the boats is about saving lives at sea not least because our family have lost several family members at sea and why our youngest son is an active RNLI sea going volunteer

    Rwanda is all about political posturing. Wasn't it Cummings who suggested it was a smoke screen to cover up another Johnson scandal?

    I doubt very much the scheme will stop the boats. There were far more robust mechanisms that could have been explored, but a political win is a political win. The Irish issue which has become an unexpected by product is a Daily Mail win for Sunak. Will the boats stop? Very unlikely, but if 6 boats a day becomes five, Sunak will consider that a win.
    On Friday and Saturday there were 500 recorded small boat arrivals so evidence of a deterrent effect seems rather absent!

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/migrants-detected-crossing-the-english-channel-in-small-boats/migrants-detected-crossing-the-english-channel-in-small-boats-last-7-days
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,700

    Stocky said:

    Good morning

    I just cannot see any way out for Yousaf than resignation and what follows next is anyone's guess

    This may trigger some but it does seem the Irish are seeking legislation to return asylum seekers to UK who are currently crossing into Ireland from Northern Ireland citing the Rwanda policy and UK is not a safe country

    Meetings are to take place between Irish and UK officials but UK has affirmed it will not accept return asylum seekers from Ireland unless France accepts them from the UK

    This is developing into an Irish - UK - France - EU issue and let's hope that it sees joint action to stop the boats and further cooperation across Europe and UK in addressing the wider problem of asylum seekers

    I assume flights to Rwanda will commence, but it would be an excellent outcome if the deterrent effect of the Rwanda programme sees joint cooperation on this problem and makes the Rwanda scheme unnecessary

    "... UK has affirmed it will not accept return asylum seekers from Ireland unless France accepts them from the UK"

    Yep.
    Does the Government understand how the border between Northern and Southern Ireland works?
    Sunak's next Hail Mary Pass is to bring back the border in the Irish Sea :wink: .
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,873

    This is disturbing.

    A former minister sanctioned by China was detained and deported by an East African country with close ties to the Chinese state, The Telegraph can reveal.

    Tim Loughton, a senior member of the Commons’ home affairs committee, believes his unprecedented and “intimidating” detention and expulsion by the Djibouti authorities was a “direct consequence” of his criticism of the Chinese regime.

    It is understood the Foreign Office is seeking an explanation from the Djiboutis over his treatment. Mr Loughton has raised the affair with Andrew Mitchell, the deputy Foreign Secretary, and written to the Djibouti ambassador via the Foreign Office to protest about the “outrageous” behaviour.

    Mr Loughton arrived in Djibouti on April 8 for a 24-hour visit including meeting the British ambassador, but was detained for more than seven hours at the airport, barred entry to the country and told he was being removed on the next available flight.

    Mr Loughton is one of seven parliamentarians sanctioned by the Chinese more than three years ago for speaking out against the “industrial scale” of human rights abuses by China against the Uighurs, Tibetans and Hong Kongers.

    Djibouti, Africa’s smallest nation, has received billions of dollars of investment from China, including a new stadium, hospital and $1 billion (£791 million) space port. China has built a naval base in the country, stationed 2,000 troops there and holds more than $1.4 billion of Djibouti’s debt, 45 per cent of its GDP.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/04/28/tim-loughton-djibouti-detained-deported-china-sanctions/

    China and David Cameron agree that foreign aid brings soft power. It is small-minded to have chopped the DfID budget and then the department itself.
    I am a great fan of the foreign aid budget, and have sometimes felt like a lone voice in praising it on here!
    It is good, but I'm always slightly worried about what it gets spent on.

    Schools, hospitals, accountancy practices in the foreign country, obviously good.
    Yachts, holidays and brothels for the higher ups.... less so.

    I know we attach conditions, but I strongly suspect they're never even investigated, let alone enforced.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,185
    FF43 said:

    ToryJim said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @akmaciver

    Quiet news day @STVNews #HumzaYousaf #RishiSunak


    Rebels plotting against Rishi is barely newsworthy. It's as regular as the ticking of a clock.
    Are rebels plotting against Rishi, or are a few excitable backbenchers (and would-be leadership candidates) noisily hoping that someone, somewhere is plotting to bring down and replace the Prime Minister?
    Maybe Kate Forbes could become the new Conservative Party leader?
    Two slight issues with that:

    1) She isn’t a Unionist
    2) She gives the impression of being a bit too competent for the Tories at present.
    I'm not convinced Forbes is competent. She manages to piss everyone off, which is a main reason she lost to Humza let's not forget. A leader needs to carry people with them.
    I never said she ‘was’ competent just that she gives off the impression that she is. Another factor is how low the excess competence threshold for the present iteration of Tories is.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,360
    ToryJim said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @akmaciver

    Quiet news day @STVNews #HumzaYousaf #RishiSunak


    Rebels plotting against Rishi is barely newsworthy. It's as regular as the ticking of a clock.
    Are rebels plotting against Rishi, or are a few excitable backbenchers (and would-be leadership candidates) noisily hoping that someone, somewhere is plotting to bring down and replace the Prime Minister?
    Maybe Kate Forbes could become the new Conservative Party leader?
    Two slight issues with that:

    1) She isn’t a Unionist
    2) She gives the impression of being a bit too competent for the Tories at present.
    K Forbes gives the impression of being the potential leader who understands what the independence campaign is actually about. It isn't about which brand of progressive policies is to be followed. It is about showing a significant majority of people of all general political persuasions that Scotland and its politics are capable of independence.

    This requires moderation, centrism and above all massive competence and grownupness in the powers you possess.

    Her remaining challenge when she becomes leader (which in time she will) is how well she addresses and answers the hard independence questions, of which currency, nuclear defence and the EU are just three.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,473
    FF43 said:

    ToryJim said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @akmaciver

    Quiet news day @STVNews #HumzaYousaf #RishiSunak


    Rebels plotting against Rishi is barely newsworthy. It's as regular as the ticking of a clock.
    Are rebels plotting against Rishi, or are a few excitable backbenchers (and would-be leadership candidates) noisily hoping that someone, somewhere is plotting to bring down and replace the Prime Minister?
    Maybe Kate Forbes could become the new Conservative Party leader?
    Two slight issues with that:

    1) She isn’t a Unionist
    2) She gives the impression of being a bit too competent for the Tories at present.
    I'm not convinced Forbes is competent. She manages to piss everyone off, which is a main reason she lost to Humza let's not forget. A leader needs to carry people with them.

    On your point 1, doing what you can to break the Union seems to be a necessary qualification for a Conservative these days.
    The problem is that the SNP is as factional and divided as the Conservative Party. Both are ungovernable at present.

    Forbes would flop in such a scenario whatever her competencies.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    MattW said:

    Stocky said:

    Good morning

    I just cannot see any way out for Yousaf than resignation and what follows next is anyone's guess

    This may trigger some but it does seem the Irish are seeking legislation to return asylum seekers to UK who are currently crossing into Ireland from Northern Ireland citing the Rwanda policy and UK is not a safe country

    Meetings are to take place between Irish and UK officials but UK has affirmed it will not accept return asylum seekers from Ireland unless France accepts them from the UK

    This is developing into an Irish - UK - France - EU issue and let's hope that it sees joint action to stop the boats and further cooperation across Europe and UK in addressing the wider problem of asylum seekers

    I assume flights to Rwanda will commence, but it would be an excellent outcome if the deterrent effect of the Rwanda programme sees joint cooperation on this problem and makes the Rwanda scheme unnecessary

    "... UK has affirmed it will not accept return asylum seekers from Ireland unless France accepts them from the UK"

    Yep.
    Does the Government understand how the border between Northern and Southern Ireland works?
    Sunak's next Hail Mary Pass is to bring back the border in the Irish Sea :wink: .
    Exactly. If the Irish government was struggling for an incentive for reunification, this is it.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,749
    edited April 29

    TOPPING said:

    As all here may be aware, I yield to no one in my left wing, bring 'em all over, that mug is not in my name, sure I may have been at war with and dropping bombs on them but now I am a big fan and support their struggle against the evil oppressor, pro-immigration stance.

    But Ireland may inadvertently be giving Rishi the support he needs wrt his immigration/Rwanda policy. Pass a law saying they must go back to the last country they came from, eh? Well I never.

    Ireland is in La Francophonie, so Im sure President Macron will do his utmost to help out.
    Perhaps I missed it, but I don't think any French government minister was so dim as to claim credit for asylum seekers crossing the Channel in small boats. None of them said, "you see, our policy to scare asylum seekers to go elsewhere is working," and thereby accept responsibility for it.

    Sunak has accepted that his policy dumps asylum seekers on Ireland, that he is essentially in the same position as Belarus, shoving people across the Polish border, and so that puts Ireland in a much stronger position to demand that he does something about it.

    If he hadn't been so stupid he would have responded to the Irish claims with a gallic shrug, said that the Rwanda policy was intended to stop the boat crossings, and left British voters to join the dots. But he couldn't help himself.
    A key problem with the Rwanda scheme is that it seems unlikely to work, so Sunak and the policy's supporters have fallen on the Irish government's comments like a thirsty man in a desert finding a spring. The value of someone saying "it's working" (even though they are doing so for their own political reasons) is worth more to Sunak than the cost of having to clear up the mess that follows admitting he's shoving people across the Irish border.
    I can understand opponents to the Rwanda scheme dismissing the Irish development but this is a real issue between Ireland and UK that will draw France and the EU into it and hopefully see cooperation and more importantly determination across thee countries to stop the boats once and for all and make Rwanda scheme redundant

    Of course this would be a political result for Sunak but for me stopping the boats is about saving lives at sea not least because our family have lost several family members at sea and why our youngest son is an active RNLI sea going volunteer

    Rwanda is all about political posturing. Wasn't it Cummings who suggested it was a smoke screen to cover up another Johnson scandal?

    I doubt very much the scheme will stop the boats. There were far more robust mechanisms that could have been explored, but a political win is a political win. The Irish issue which has become an unexpected by product is a Daily Mail win for Sunak. Will the boats stop? Very unlikely, but if 6 boats a day becomes five, Sunak will consider that a win.
    What is has done is highlight to Ireland a problem that hadn't existed before and that is now causing them real issues, not least with demonstrations across Ireland, and their need to address it and of course that extends to France and the wider EU

    Everyone should hope that tangible and determined efforts will follow and in time end the need for Rwanda
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,796
    algarkirk said:

    ToryJim said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @akmaciver

    Quiet news day @STVNews #HumzaYousaf #RishiSunak


    Rebels plotting against Rishi is barely newsworthy. It's as regular as the ticking of a clock.
    Are rebels plotting against Rishi, or are a few excitable backbenchers (and would-be leadership candidates) noisily hoping that someone, somewhere is plotting to bring down and replace the Prime Minister?
    Maybe Kate Forbes could become the new Conservative Party leader?
    Two slight issues with that:

    1) She isn’t a Unionist
    2) She gives the impression of being a bit too competent for the Tories at present.
    K Forbes gives the impression of being the potential leader who understands what the independence campaign is actually about. It isn't about which brand of progressive policies is to be followed. It is about showing a significant majority of people of all general political persuasions that Scotland and its politics are capable of independence.

    This requires moderation, centrism and above all massive competence and grownupness in the powers you possess.

    Her remaining challenge when she becomes leader (which in time she will) is how well she addresses and answers the hard independence questions, of which currency, nuclear defence and the EU are just three.
    Is ‘Forbesy’ the PB equivalent of Swifties?
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,657
    So what was the point of all that?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,749
    Foxy said:

    TOPPING said:

    As all here may be aware, I yield to no one in my left wing, bring 'em all over, that mug is not in my name, sure I may have been at war with and dropping bombs on them but now I am a big fan and support their struggle against the evil oppressor, pro-immigration stance.

    But Ireland may inadvertently be giving Rishi the support he needs wrt his immigration/Rwanda policy. Pass a law saying they must go back to the last country they came from, eh? Well I never.

    Ireland is in La Francophonie, so Im sure President Macron will do his utmost to help out.
    Perhaps I missed it, but I don't think any French government minister was so dim as to claim credit for asylum seekers crossing the Channel in small boats. None of them said, "you see, our policy to scare asylum seekers to go elsewhere is working," and thereby accept responsibility for it.

    Sunak has accepted that his policy dumps asylum seekers on Ireland, that he is essentially in the same position as Belarus, shoving people across the Polish border, and so that puts Ireland in a much stronger position to demand that he does something about it.

    If he hadn't been so stupid he would have responded to the Irish claims with a gallic shrug, said that the Rwanda policy was intended to stop the boat crossings, and left British voters to join the dots. But he couldn't help himself.
    A key problem with the Rwanda scheme is that it seems unlikely to work, so Sunak and the policy's supporters have fallen on the Irish government's comments like a thirsty man in a desert finding a spring. The value of someone saying "it's working" (even though they are doing so for their own political reasons) is worth more to Sunak than the cost of having to clear up the mess that follows admitting he's shoving people across the Irish border.
    I can understand opponents to the Rwanda scheme dismissing the Irish development but this is a real issue between Ireland and UK that will draw France and the EU into it and hopefully see cooperation and more importantly determination across thee countries to stop the boats once and for all and make Rwanda scheme redundant

    Of course this would be a political result for Sunak but for me stopping the boats is about saving lives at sea not least because our family have lost several family members at sea and why our youngest son is an active RNLI sea going volunteer

    Rwanda is all about political posturing. Wasn't it Cummings who suggested it was a smoke screen to cover up another Johnson scandal?

    I doubt very much the scheme will stop the boats. There were far more robust mechanisms that could have been explored, but a political win is a political win. The Irish issue which has become an unexpected by product is a Daily Mail win for Sunak. Will the boats stop? Very unlikely, but if 6 boats a day becomes five, Sunak will consider that a win.
    On Friday and Saturday there were 500 recorded small boat arrivals so evidence of a deterrent effect seems rdispute ather absent!

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/migrants-detected-crossing-the-english-channel-in-small-boats/migrants-detected-crossing-the-english-channel-in-small-boats-last-7-days
    I find it extraordinary that anyone would expect to see an immediate reduction in boat crossings when the smugglers will be desperate to send over as many as possible before the consequences of the legislation become obvious not least as this Irish problem develops and flights take off
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,360

    algarkirk said:

    ToryJim said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @akmaciver

    Quiet news day @STVNews #HumzaYousaf #RishiSunak


    Rebels plotting against Rishi is barely newsworthy. It's as regular as the ticking of a clock.
    Are rebels plotting against Rishi, or are a few excitable backbenchers (and would-be leadership candidates) noisily hoping that someone, somewhere is plotting to bring down and replace the Prime Minister?
    Maybe Kate Forbes could become the new Conservative Party leader?
    Two slight issues with that:

    1) She isn’t a Unionist
    2) She gives the impression of being a bit too competent for the Tories at present.
    K Forbes gives the impression of being the potential leader who understands what the independence campaign is actually about. It isn't about which brand of progressive policies is to be followed. It is about showing a significant majority of people of all general political persuasions that Scotland and its politics are capable of independence.

    This requires moderation, centrism and above all massive competence and grownupness in the powers you possess.

    Her remaining challenge when she becomes leader (which in time she will) is how well she addresses and answers the hard independence questions, of which currency, nuclear defence and the EU are just three.
    Is ‘Forbesy’ the PB equivalent of Swifties?
    Not really. K Forbes is perfect in every way except for the error of supporting an independent Scotland. Whereas T Swift is perfect in every way. (As my Swiftie daughter will explain at length).
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,509
    This is an interesting POV; is it true ?

    We see the cutthroat competition as cruel and unfair. Yet, for an immigrant it looks the other way around. For a social elevator to really go up, it must be also going down (for someone else). Therefore, the US *and even the UK* offer the opportunities that France/Germany don’t...
    https://twitter.com/kamilkazani/status/1784659090158875080
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,095
    Leon said:

    This is disturbing.

    A former minister sanctioned by China was detained and deported by an East African country with close ties to the Chinese state, The Telegraph can reveal.

    Tim Loughton, a senior member of the Commons’ home affairs committee, believes his unprecedented and “intimidating” detention and expulsion by the Djibouti authorities was a “direct consequence” of his criticism of the Chinese regime.

    It is understood the Foreign Office is seeking an explanation from the Djiboutis over his treatment. Mr Loughton has raised the affair with Andrew Mitchell, the deputy Foreign Secretary, and written to the Djibouti ambassador via the Foreign Office to protest about the “outrageous” behaviour.

    Mr Loughton arrived in Djibouti on April 8 for a 24-hour visit including meeting the British ambassador, but was detained for more than seven hours at the airport, barred entry to the country and told he was being removed on the next available flight.

    Mr Loughton is one of seven parliamentarians sanctioned by the Chinese more than three years ago for speaking out against the “industrial scale” of human rights abuses by China against the Uighurs, Tibetans and Hong Kongers.

    Djibouti, Africa’s smallest nation, has received billions of dollars of investment from China, including a new stadium, hospital and $1 billion (£791 million) space port. China has built a naval base in the country, stationed 2,000 troops there and holds more than $1.4 billion of Djibouti’s debt, 45 per cent of its GDP.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/04/28/tim-loughton-djibouti-detained-deported-china-sanctions/

    That is disturbing. Also: wow. Djibouti is completely absorbed. It is a protectorate and a dependency. The Chinese have built a Stealth Empire. Cf Sri Lanka

    The Indian Ocean is theirs, as it was once Britain’s
    Not while they lack blue water capability

  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,069
    algarkirk said:

    ToryJim said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @akmaciver

    Quiet news day @STVNews #HumzaYousaf #RishiSunak


    Rebels plotting against Rishi is barely newsworthy. It's as regular as the ticking of a clock.
    Are rebels plotting against Rishi, or are a few excitable backbenchers (and would-be leadership candidates) noisily hoping that someone, somewhere is plotting to bring down and replace the Prime Minister?
    Maybe Kate Forbes could become the new Conservative Party leader?
    Two slight issues with that:

    1) She isn’t a Unionist
    2) She gives the impression of being a bit too competent for the Tories at present.
    K Forbes gives the impression of being the potential leader who understands what the independence campaign is actually about. It isn't about which brand of progressive policies is to be followed. It is about showing a significant majority of people of all general political persuasions that Scotland and its politics are capable of independence.

    This requires moderation, centrism and above all massive competence and grownupness in the powers you possess.

    Her remaining challenge when she becomes leader (which in time she will) is how well she addresses and answers the hard independence questions, of which currency, nuclear defence and the EU are just three.
    Trouble with moderate centre-rightist Scottish Nationalism is that, while it exists, it's nowhere near a majority. Without all those ghastly urban progressives with their green woke obsessions, the SNP goes back to being what it was in the noughties- broadly irrelevant.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,509
    Lying is now the GOP orthodoxy.

    Notable moment in today’s @atlpressclub debate in the GOP race for Georgia’s open 3rd District: All five Republican candidates raise their hand when @russfox5 asks if they believe Trump was the “rightful” winner of Georgia’s 2020 race, which he lost to President Biden.
    https://twitter.com/bluestein/status/1784640224313708948
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,080

    TOPPING said:

    As all here may be aware, I yield to no one in my left wing, bring 'em all over, that mug is not in my name, sure I may have been at war with and dropping bombs on them but now I am a big fan and support their struggle against the evil oppressor, pro-immigration stance.

    But Ireland may inadvertently be giving Rishi the support he needs wrt his immigration/Rwanda policy. Pass a law saying they must go back to the last country they came from, eh? Well I never.

    Ireland is in La Francophonie, so Im sure President Macron will do his utmost to help out.
    Perhaps I missed it, but I don't think any French government minister was so dim as to claim credit for asylum seekers crossing the Channel in small boats. None of them said, "you see, our policy to scare asylum seekers to go elsewhere is working," and thereby accept responsibility for it.

    Sunak has accepted that his policy dumps asylum seekers on Ireland, that he is essentially in the same position as Belarus, shoving people across the Polish border, and so that puts Ireland in a much stronger position to demand that he does something about it.

    If he hadn't been so stupid he would have responded to the Irish claims with a gallic shrug, said that the Rwanda policy was intended to stop the boat crossings, and left British voters to join the dots. But he couldn't help himself.
    A key problem with the Rwanda scheme is that it seems unlikely to work, so Sunak and the policy's supporters have fallen on the Irish government's comments like a thirsty man in a desert finding a spring. The value of someone saying "it's working" (even though they are doing so for their own political reasons) is worth more to Sunak than the cost of having to clear up the mess that follows admitting he's shoving people across the Irish border.
    I can understand opponents to the Rwanda scheme dismissing the Irish development but this is a real issue between Ireland and UK that will draw France and the EU into it and hopefully see cooperation and more importantly determination across thee countries to stop the boats once and for all and make Rwanda scheme redundant

    Of course this would be a political result for Sunak but for me stopping the boats is about saving lives at sea not least because our family have lost several family members at sea and why our youngest son is an active RNLI sea going volunteer

    Rwanda is all about political posturing. Wasn't it Cummings who suggested it was a smoke screen to cover up another Johnson scandal?

    I doubt very much the scheme will stop the boats. There were far more robust mechanisms that could have been explored, but a political win is a political win. The Irish issue which has become an unexpected by product is a Daily Mail win for Sunak. Will the boats stop? Very unlikely, but if 6 boats a day becomes five, Sunak will consider that a win.
    What is has done is highlight to Ireland a problem that hadn't existed before and that is now causing them real issues, not least with demonstrations across Ireland, and their need to address it and of course that extends to France and the wider EU

    Everyone should hope that tangible and determined efforts will follow and in time end the need for Rwanda
    Um. Rwanda for the Irish government is a useful stick for them to use to beat the British government with so that they can deflect responsibility for their own long-standing problems with asylum seekers.

    The idea that it highlights to Ireland a problem that hadn't existed before is risible. An absurdly UK-centric view of the situation.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    "Both sides" (sic)

    A troll who threatened to kill JK Rowling 'with a big hammer' has been warned he faces jail. Glenn Mullen, 31, sent terrifying audio messages in Scottish Gaelic to the Harry Potter author and Labour MP Rosie Duffield on X, formerly Twitter, on 19 January last year.

    https://x.com/CourtNewsUK/status/1784867222566936603
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,134

    I've just reached Sahagún, the official halfway mark, in nine days, two hours and twenty minutes


    Have you visited this part of Spain before?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,891
    @paulhutcheon

    Two Swinney options circulating: caretaker, taking SNP through to GE; full-time leader
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,360

    algarkirk said:

    ToryJim said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @akmaciver

    Quiet news day @STVNews #HumzaYousaf #RishiSunak


    Rebels plotting against Rishi is barely newsworthy. It's as regular as the ticking of a clock.
    Are rebels plotting against Rishi, or are a few excitable backbenchers (and would-be leadership candidates) noisily hoping that someone, somewhere is plotting to bring down and replace the Prime Minister?
    Maybe Kate Forbes could become the new Conservative Party leader?
    Two slight issues with that:

    1) She isn’t a Unionist
    2) She gives the impression of being a bit too competent for the Tories at present.
    K Forbes gives the impression of being the potential leader who understands what the independence campaign is actually about. It isn't about which brand of progressive policies is to be followed. It is about showing a significant majority of people of all general political persuasions that Scotland and its politics are capable of independence.

    This requires moderation, centrism and above all massive competence and grownupness in the powers you possess.

    Her remaining challenge when she becomes leader (which in time she will) is how well she addresses and answers the hard independence questions, of which currency, nuclear defence and the EU are just three.
    Trouble with moderate centre-rightist Scottish Nationalism is that, while it exists, it's nowhere near a majority. Without all those ghastly urban progressives with their green woke obsessions, the SNP goes back to being what it was in the noughties- broadly irrelevant.
    Good point. I am a unionist about Scotland (living in England I can literally see Scotland from where I live) so I am quite happy about that. But for those who actually want independence, I suggest there is no route to it which does not go through the moderate centre.

    For this to get to first base you need perhaps 55-60% of Scots firmly persuaded of the project, both constitutionally and in terms of trust that there are parties that can competently deliver an independent Scotland. At the moment the nature of the SNP (rats in a sack) suggests they need to scrub the plan and think again.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586

    megasaur said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Is it true that Yousaf earns more than Sunak?

    If so, that's utterly ridiculous.

    I'm no starry-eyed admirer of our politicians but if we're paying the PM so little no wonder we struggle to attract anyone with actual talent.

    (Although plenty of firms pay millions and still can't get anyone good enough to deal with the problems their size cause.)
    Well paying more than us doesn't seem to have helped Scotland much.
    Paula Vennells was taking home more than either of them
    Suspicion.

    Only a fool would say that there's no correlation between renumeration and the quality of employee, but I suspect it's quite a lot weaker than the one most people carry in their mental map of how the world works.
    Paula Vennells and her ilk were carefully selected for their roles by their peers.

    You want someone who combines a love of process and rules with a complete lack of intellectual curiosity.

    And loyalty to the peer group against any outside threat as a fundamental belief.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,509

    Leon said:

    This is disturbing.

    A former minister sanctioned by China was detained and deported by an East African country with close ties to the Chinese state, The Telegraph can reveal.

    Tim Loughton, a senior member of the Commons’ home affairs committee, believes his unprecedented and “intimidating” detention and expulsion by the Djibouti authorities was a “direct consequence” of his criticism of the Chinese regime.

    It is understood the Foreign Office is seeking an explanation from the Djiboutis over his treatment. Mr Loughton has raised the affair with Andrew Mitchell, the deputy Foreign Secretary, and written to the Djibouti ambassador via the Foreign Office to protest about the “outrageous” behaviour.

    Mr Loughton arrived in Djibouti on April 8 for a 24-hour visit including meeting the British ambassador, but was detained for more than seven hours at the airport, barred entry to the country and told he was being removed on the next available flight.

    Mr Loughton is one of seven parliamentarians sanctioned by the Chinese more than three years ago for speaking out against the “industrial scale” of human rights abuses by China against the Uighurs, Tibetans and Hong Kongers.

    Djibouti, Africa’s smallest nation, has received billions of dollars of investment from China, including a new stadium, hospital and $1 billion (£791 million) space port. China has built a naval base in the country, stationed 2,000 troops there and holds more than $1.4 billion of Djibouti’s debt, 45 per cent of its GDP.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/04/28/tim-loughton-djibouti-detained-deported-china-sanctions/

    That is disturbing. Also: wow. Djibouti is completely absorbed. It is a protectorate and a dependency. The Chinese have built a Stealth Empire. Cf Sri Lanka

    The Indian Ocean is theirs, as it was once Britain’s
    Not while they lack blue water capability

    Leon making his usual, nonsensical 'let's panic' analysis.
    China doesn't even have an Indian Ocean coastline.

    Djibouti, which houses US and European military bases, is not "completely absorbed", either.
  • megasaurmegasaur Posts: 586

    TOPPING said:

    As all here may be aware, I yield to no one in my left wing, bring 'em all over, that mug is not in my name, sure I may have been at war with and dropping bombs on them but now I am a big fan and support their struggle against the evil oppressor, pro-immigration stance.

    But Ireland may inadvertently be giving Rishi the support he needs wrt his immigration/Rwanda policy. Pass a law saying they must go back to the last country they came from, eh? Well I never.

    Ireland is in La Francophonie, so Im sure President Macron will do his utmost to help out.
    Perhaps I missed it, but I don't think any French government minister was so dim as to claim credit for asylum seekers crossing the Channel in small boats. None of them said, "you see, our policy to scare asylum seekers to go elsewhere is working," and thereby accept responsibility for it.

    Sunak has accepted that his policy dumps asylum seekers on Ireland, that he is essentially in the same position as Belarus, shoving people across the Polish border, and so that puts Ireland in a much stronger position to demand that he does something about it.

    If he hadn't been so stupid he would have responded to the Irish claims with a gallic shrug, said that the Rwanda policy was intended to stop the boat crossings, and left British voters to join the dots. But he couldn't help himself.
    A key problem with the Rwanda scheme is that it seems unlikely to work, so Sunak and the policy's supporters have fallen on the Irish government's comments like a thirsty man in a desert finding a spring. The value of someone saying "it's working" (even though they are doing so for their own political reasons) is worth more to Sunak than the cost of having to clear up the mess that follows admitting he's shoving people across the Irish border.
    I can understand opponents to the Rwanda scheme dismissing the Irish development but this is a real issue between Ireland and UK that will draw France and the EU into it and hopefully see cooperation and more importantly determination across thee countries to stop the boats once and for all and make Rwanda scheme redundant

    Of course this would be a political result for Sunak but for me stopping the boats is about saving lives at sea not least because our family have lost several family members at sea and why our youngest son is an active RNLI sea going volunteer

    Rwanda is all about political posturing. Wasn't it Cummings who suggested it was a smoke screen to cover up another Johnson scandal?

    I doubt very much the scheme will stop the boats. There were far more robust mechanisms that could have been explored, but a political win is a political win. The Irish issue which has become an unexpected by product is a Daily Mail win for Sunak. Will the boats stop? Very unlikely, but if 6 boats a day becomes five, Sunak will consider that a win.
    What is has done is highlight to Ireland a problem that hadn't existed before and that is now causing them real issues, not least with demonstrations across Ireland, and their need to address it and of course that extends to France and the wider EU

    Everyone should hope that tangible and determined efforts will follow and in time end the need for Rwanda
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_anti-immigration_protests_(2022–present)

    Anti immigration violence in Ireland has been a thing since 2018 (if you look at the text not the title). What is new is the cunning ploy of blaming the UK for it.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,113

    Foxy said:

    TOPPING said:

    As all here may be aware, I yield to no one in my left wing, bring 'em all over, that mug is not in my name, sure I may have been at war with and dropping bombs on them but now I am a big fan and support their struggle against the evil oppressor, pro-immigration stance.

    But Ireland may inadvertently be giving Rishi the support he needs wrt his immigration/Rwanda policy. Pass a law saying they must go back to the last country they came from, eh? Well I never.

    Ireland is in La Francophonie, so Im sure President Macron will do his utmost to help out.
    Perhaps I missed it, but I don't think any French government minister was so dim as to claim credit for asylum seekers crossing the Channel in small boats. None of them said, "you see, our policy to scare asylum seekers to go elsewhere is working," and thereby accept responsibility for it.

    Sunak has accepted that his policy dumps asylum seekers on Ireland, that he is essentially in the same position as Belarus, shoving people across the Polish border, and so that puts Ireland in a much stronger position to demand that he does something about it.

    If he hadn't been so stupid he would have responded to the Irish claims with a gallic shrug, said that the Rwanda policy was intended to stop the boat crossings, and left British voters to join the dots. But he couldn't help himself.
    A key problem with the Rwanda scheme is that it seems unlikely to work, so Sunak and the policy's supporters have fallen on the Irish government's comments like a thirsty man in a desert finding a spring. The value of someone saying "it's working" (even though they are doing so for their own political reasons) is worth more to Sunak than the cost of having to clear up the mess that follows admitting he's shoving people across the Irish border.
    I can understand opponents to the Rwanda scheme dismissing the Irish development but this is a real issue between Ireland and UK that will draw France and the EU into it and hopefully see cooperation and more importantly determination across thee countries to stop the boats once and for all and make Rwanda scheme redundant

    Of course this would be a political result for Sunak but for me stopping the boats is about saving lives at sea not least because our family have lost several family members at sea and why our youngest son is an active RNLI sea going volunteer

    Rwanda is all about political posturing. Wasn't it Cummings who suggested it was a smoke screen to cover up another Johnson scandal?

    I doubt very much the scheme will stop the boats. There were far more robust mechanisms that could have been explored, but a political win is a political win. The Irish issue which has become an unexpected by product is a Daily Mail win for Sunak. Will the boats stop? Very unlikely, but if 6 boats a day becomes five, Sunak will consider that a win.
    On Friday and Saturday there were 500 recorded small boat arrivals so evidence of a deterrent effect seems rdispute ather absent!

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/migrants-detected-crossing-the-english-channel-in-small-boats/migrants-detected-crossing-the-english-channel-in-small-boats-last-7-days
    I find it extraordinary that anyone would expect to see an immediate reduction in boat crossings when the smugglers will be desperate to send over as many as possible before the consequences of the legislation become obvious not least as this Irish problem develops and flights take off
    Of course. I think Foxy was joking.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited April 29
    I asked John Swinney back in 2014 if he would ever stand for SNP leader again:

    "Unreservedly, absolutely, in no circumstances, there is no way of you configuring any signal I am possibly giving you, to say anything other than 'no.'"

    That was then and this is now.


    https://x.com/paulhutcheon/status/1784867839423201474
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,205
    Just listening to Nicky Campbell's show as I do a little 'work', and the debate on Yousaf and the SNP has shades of the Scottish Free Church / Church of Scotland.

    One lady said that if you want independence, you need to vote for the SNP or Green. When Campbell pointed out that Alba are also a pro-independence party, she said that she didn't like them and supporters she knew had bad motives...
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,599
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    This is disturbing.

    A former minister sanctioned by China was detained and deported by an East African country with close ties to the Chinese state, The Telegraph can reveal.

    Tim Loughton, a senior member of the Commons’ home affairs committee, believes his unprecedented and “intimidating” detention and expulsion by the Djibouti authorities was a “direct consequence” of his criticism of the Chinese regime.

    It is understood the Foreign Office is seeking an explanation from the Djiboutis over his treatment. Mr Loughton has raised the affair with Andrew Mitchell, the deputy Foreign Secretary, and written to the Djibouti ambassador via the Foreign Office to protest about the “outrageous” behaviour.

    Mr Loughton arrived in Djibouti on April 8 for a 24-hour visit including meeting the British ambassador, but was detained for more than seven hours at the airport, barred entry to the country and told he was being removed on the next available flight.

    Mr Loughton is one of seven parliamentarians sanctioned by the Chinese more than three years ago for speaking out against the “industrial scale” of human rights abuses by China against the Uighurs, Tibetans and Hong Kongers.

    Djibouti, Africa’s smallest nation, has received billions of dollars of investment from China, including a new stadium, hospital and $1 billion (£791 million) space port. China has built a naval base in the country, stationed 2,000 troops there and holds more than $1.4 billion of Djibouti’s debt, 45 per cent of its GDP.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/04/28/tim-loughton-djibouti-detained-deported-china-sanctions/

    That is disturbing. Also: wow. Djibouti is completely absorbed. It is a protectorate and a dependency. The Chinese have built a Stealth Empire. Cf Sri Lanka

    The Indian Ocean is theirs, as it was once Britain’s
    Not while they lack blue water capability

    Leon making his usual, nonsensical 'let's panic' analysis.
    China doesn't even have an Indian Ocean coastline.

    Djibouti, which houses US and European military bases, is not "completely absorbed", either.
    Country with 1 in 6 of the global population and similar share of global GDP has global influence shocker.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,796

    I asked John Swinney back in 2014 if he would ever stand for SNP leader again:

    "Unreservedly, absolutely, in no circumstances, there is no way of you configuring any signal I am possibly giving you, to say anything other than 'no.'"

    That was then and this is now.


    https://x.com/paulhutcheon/status/1784867839423201474

    I hadn’t realised that you ‘stand’ to become a caretaker leader.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,080
    Apparently Coral are offering 8/1 on John Swinney as next SNP leader.

    Kate Forbes is a very short 1/2.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,830
    Andy_JS said:

    I've just reached Sahagún, the official halfway mark, in nine days, two hours and twenty minutes


    Have you visited this part of Spain before?
    I have a few times, but always on road trips to Portugal and only stopping in a few big cities on the way
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,599
    Nigelb said:

    Lying is now the GOP orthodoxy.

    Notable moment in today’s @atlpressclub debate in the GOP race for Georgia’s open 3rd District: All five Republican candidates raise their hand when @russfox5 asks if they believe Trump was the “rightful” winner of Georgia’s 2020 race, which he lost to President Biden.
    https://twitter.com/bluestein/status/1784640224313708948

    At some point it crosses from mendacious lying and spinning to ignorantly having convinced yourself you are telling the truth. From afar I suspect most Republicans were in the first in 2021 but are now in the latter scenario.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,134
    Humza will be remembered for his infamous "white" speech.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,599
    Andy_JS said:

    Humza will be remembered for his infamous "white" speech.

    Remind me?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,509

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    This is disturbing.

    A former minister sanctioned by China was detained and deported by an East African country with close ties to the Chinese state, The Telegraph can reveal.

    Tim Loughton, a senior member of the Commons’ home affairs committee, believes his unprecedented and “intimidating” detention and expulsion by the Djibouti authorities was a “direct consequence” of his criticism of the Chinese regime.

    It is understood the Foreign Office is seeking an explanation from the Djiboutis over his treatment. Mr Loughton has raised the affair with Andrew Mitchell, the deputy Foreign Secretary, and written to the Djibouti ambassador via the Foreign Office to protest about the “outrageous” behaviour.

    Mr Loughton arrived in Djibouti on April 8 for a 24-hour visit including meeting the British ambassador, but was detained for more than seven hours at the airport, barred entry to the country and told he was being removed on the next available flight.

    Mr Loughton is one of seven parliamentarians sanctioned by the Chinese more than three years ago for speaking out against the “industrial scale” of human rights abuses by China against the Uighurs, Tibetans and Hong Kongers.

    Djibouti, Africa’s smallest nation, has received billions of dollars of investment from China, including a new stadium, hospital and $1 billion (£791 million) space port. China has built a naval base in the country, stationed 2,000 troops there and holds more than $1.4 billion of Djibouti’s debt, 45 per cent of its GDP.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/04/28/tim-loughton-djibouti-detained-deported-china-sanctions/

    That is disturbing. Also: wow. Djibouti is completely absorbed. It is a protectorate and a dependency. The Chinese have built a Stealth Empire. Cf Sri Lanka

    The Indian Ocean is theirs, as it was once Britain’s
    Not while they lack blue water capability

    Leon making his usual, nonsensical 'let's panic' analysis.
    China doesn't even have an Indian Ocean coastline.

    Djibouti, which houses US and European military bases, is not "completely absorbed", either.
    Country with 1 in 6 of the global population and similar share of global GDP has global influence shocker.
    In some areas - both heavy industry and renewables capital equipment - it has world dominance.

    This is a great article looking at the current state of play for, and interrelationship between the two things.

    How China's carbon-intensive heavy industry powers its clean tech industry
    China's heavy industries like steel and aluminum are a huge emissions problem. Yet, they also provide key inputs into China's clean tech sector, like EVs, solar panels, and wind turbines.
    https://www.high-capacity.com/p/how-chinas-carbon-intensive-heavy

    The interesting question for the future of the world's climate is how quickly, and to what extent, China can decarbonise its heavy industry.

    Where China goes, India will follow.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,767

    Apparently Coral are offering 8/1 on John Swinney as next SNP leader.

    Kate Forbes is a very short 1/2.

    I really can't see large proportions of the SNP going with Forbes. I guess Regan might, but would she get the votes for FM?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,134
    edited April 29
    Nigelb said:

    This is an interesting POV; is it true ?

    We see the cutthroat competition as cruel and unfair. Yet, for an immigrant it looks the other way around. For a social elevator to really go up, it must be also going down (for someone else). Therefore, the US *and even the UK* offer the opportunities that France/Germany don’t...
    https://twitter.com/kamilkazani/status/1784659090158875080

    Those figures for France are horrible, if correct. Most immigrant groups going backwards compared to their parents.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,787

    Andy_JS said:

    Humza will be remembered for his infamous "white" speech.

    Remind me?
    I see what you did there. :)
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,696

    TOPPING said:

    As all here may be aware, I yield to no one in my left wing, bring 'em all over, that mug is not in my name, sure I may have been at war with and dropping bombs on them but now I am a big fan and support their struggle against the evil oppressor, pro-immigration stance.

    But Ireland may inadvertently be giving Rishi the support he needs wrt his immigration/Rwanda policy. Pass a law saying they must go back to the last country they came from, eh? Well I never.

    Ireland is in La Francophonie, so Im sure President Macron will do his utmost to help out.
    Perhaps I missed it, but I don't think any French government minister was so dim as to claim credit for asylum seekers crossing the Channel in small boats. None of them said, "you see, our policy to scare asylum seekers to go elsewhere is working," and thereby accept responsibility for it.

    Sunak has accepted that his policy dumps asylum seekers on Ireland, that he is essentially in the same position as Belarus, shoving people across the Polish border, and so that puts Ireland in a much stronger position to demand that he does something about it.

    If he hadn't been so stupid he would have responded to the Irish claims with a gallic shrug, said that the Rwanda policy was intended to stop the boat crossings, and left British voters to join the dots. But he couldn't help himself.
    A key problem with the Rwanda scheme is that it seems unlikely to work, so Sunak and the policy's supporters have fallen on the Irish government's comments like a thirsty man in a desert finding a spring. The value of someone saying "it's working" (even though they are doing so for their own political reasons) is worth more to Sunak than the cost of having to clear up the mess that follows admitting he's shoving people across the Irish border.
    I can understand opponents to the Rwanda scheme dismissing the Irish development but this is a real issue between Ireland and UK that will draw France and the EU into it and hopefully see cooperation and more importantly determination across thee countries to stop the boats once and for all and make Rwanda scheme redundant

    Of course this would be a political result for Sunak but for me stopping the boats is about saving lives at sea not least because our family have lost several family members at sea and why our youngest son is an active RNLI sea going volunteer

    There are clearly real problems with asylum seekers travelling between France, the UK and Ireland. These were greatly increased by Brexit undoing the existing agreements. It would be great to see increased cooperation between the three countries. Indeed, Sunak should have been spending his time working on that rather than the nonsense of the Rwanda scheme.

    If the Rwanda scheme acts as a catalyst for discussing these issues, that's welcome. However, it wasn't necessary to introduce the scheme in order for Sunak to talk to Ireland and France.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,599
    Nigelb said:

    This is an interesting POV; is it true ?

    We see the cutthroat competition as cruel and unfair. Yet, for an immigrant it looks the other way around. For a social elevator to really go up, it must be also going down (for someone else). Therefore, the US *and even the UK* offer the opportunities that France/Germany don’t...
    https://twitter.com/kamilkazani/status/1784659090158875080

    Language is probably part of it, also UK is on average less racist, I suspect those combined have a significantly bigger contribution than a perceived meritocracy. Especially as meritocracy has been declining here over the last couple of generations.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited April 29

    Andy_JS said:

    Humza will be remembered for his infamous "white" speech.

    Remind me?
    From 4.40'

    https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8w969e

    Scotland is 95.4% "White".
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,696

    TOPPING said:

    As all here may be aware, I yield to no one in my left wing, bring 'em all over, that mug is not in my name, sure I may have been at war with and dropping bombs on them but now I am a big fan and support their struggle against the evil oppressor, pro-immigration stance.

    But Ireland may inadvertently be giving Rishi the support he needs wrt his immigration/Rwanda policy. Pass a law saying they must go back to the last country they came from, eh? Well I never.

    Ireland is in La Francophonie, so Im sure President Macron will do his utmost to help out.
    Perhaps I missed it, but I don't think any French government minister was so dim as to claim credit for asylum seekers crossing the Channel in small boats. None of them said, "you see, our policy to scare asylum seekers to go elsewhere is working," and thereby accept responsibility for it.

    Sunak has accepted that his policy dumps asylum seekers on Ireland, that he is essentially in the same position as Belarus, shoving people across the Polish border, and so that puts Ireland in a much stronger position to demand that he does something about it.

    If he hadn't been so stupid he would have responded to the Irish claims with a gallic shrug, said that the Rwanda policy was intended to stop the boat crossings, and left British voters to join the dots. But he couldn't help himself.
    A key problem with the Rwanda scheme is that it seems unlikely to work, so Sunak and the policy's supporters have fallen on the Irish government's comments like a thirsty man in a desert finding a spring. The value of someone saying "it's working" (even though they are doing so for their own political reasons) is worth more to Sunak than the cost of having to clear up the mess that follows admitting he's shoving people across the Irish border.
    I can understand opponents to the Rwanda scheme dismissing the Irish development but this is a real issue between Ireland and UK that will draw France and the EU into it and hopefully see cooperation and more importantly determination across thee countries to stop the boats once and for all and make Rwanda scheme redundant

    Of course this would be a political result for Sunak but for me stopping the boats is about saving lives at sea not least because our family have lost several family members at sea and why our youngest son is an active RNLI sea going volunteer

    Rwanda is all about political posturing. Wasn't it Cummings who suggested it was a smoke screen to cover up another Johnson scandal?

    I doubt very much the scheme will stop the boats. There were far more robust mechanisms that could have been explored, but a political win is a political win. The Irish issue which has become an unexpected by product is a Daily Mail win for Sunak. Will the boats stop? Very unlikely, but if 6 boats a day becomes five, Sunak will consider that a win.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53699511

    How many people cross the Channel in small boats?
    As at 21 April, 6,265 people had crossed the English Channel in small boats since the start of 2024.

    That is up by nearly a quarter compared to the same period the year before.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,134
    If he resigns, the next question is whether or not Labour will press ahead with their motion of no confidence in the Scottish government, regardless of who the leader is. I assume they will.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Scotland’s First Minister Humza Yousaf is to hold a news conference at Bute House in Edinburgh at noon, at which he is expected to announce his resignation.

    https://x.com/BBCJamesCook/status/1784872196885684243
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,787
    Stocky said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Humza will be remembered for his infamous "white" speech.

    Re Humza's policies, Carl Sagan's words should be noted:

    “I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time ... when awesome technological powers are in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.”
    I'm going to steal that, thank you :)
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,700

    "Both sides" (sic)

    A troll who threatened to kill JK Rowling 'with a big hammer' has been warned he faces jail. Glenn Mullen, 31, sent terrifying audio messages in Scottish Gaelic to the Harry Potter author and Labour MP Rosie Duffield on X, formerly Twitter, on 19 January last year.

    https://x.com/CourtNewsUK/status/1784867222566936603

    He's a Social media Trans-Activist troll - some more background.
    https://reduxx.info/scottish-trans-activist-issues-chilling-death-threats-to-women-critical-of-gender-ideology/
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,696

    TOPPING said:

    As all here may be aware, I yield to no one in my left wing, bring 'em all over, that mug is not in my name, sure I may have been at war with and dropping bombs on them but now I am a big fan and support their struggle against the evil oppressor, pro-immigration stance.

    But Ireland may inadvertently be giving Rishi the support he needs wrt his immigration/Rwanda policy. Pass a law saying they must go back to the last country they came from, eh? Well I never.

    Ireland is in La Francophonie, so Im sure President Macron will do his utmost to help out.
    Perhaps I missed it, but I don't think any French government minister was so dim as to claim credit for asylum seekers crossing the Channel in small boats. None of them said, "you see, our policy to scare asylum seekers to go elsewhere is working," and thereby accept responsibility for it.

    Sunak has accepted that his policy dumps asylum seekers on Ireland, that he is essentially in the same position as Belarus, shoving people across the Polish border, and so that puts Ireland in a much stronger position to demand that he does something about it.

    If he hadn't been so stupid he would have responded to the Irish claims with a gallic shrug, said that the Rwanda policy was intended to stop the boat crossings, and left British voters to join the dots. But he couldn't help himself.
    A key problem with the Rwanda scheme is that it seems unlikely to work, so Sunak and the policy's supporters have fallen on the Irish government's comments like a thirsty man in a desert finding a spring. The value of someone saying "it's working" (even though they are doing so for their own political reasons) is worth more to Sunak than the cost of having to clear up the mess that follows admitting he's shoving people across the Irish border.
    I can understand opponents to the Rwanda scheme dismissing the Irish development but this is a real issue between Ireland and UK that will draw France and the EU into it and hopefully see cooperation and more importantly determination across thee countries to stop the boats once and for all and make Rwanda scheme redundant

    Of course this would be a political result for Sunak but for me stopping the boats is about saving lives at sea not least because our family have lost several family members at sea and why our youngest son is an active RNLI sea going volunteer

    Rwanda is all about political posturing. Wasn't it Cummings who suggested it was a smoke screen to cover up another Johnson scandal?

    I doubt very much the scheme will stop the boats. There were far more robust mechanisms that could have been explored, but a political win is a political win. The Irish issue which has become an unexpected by product is a Daily Mail win for Sunak. Will the boats stop? Very unlikely, but if 6 boats a day becomes five, Sunak will consider that a win.
    What is has done is highlight to Ireland a problem that hadn't existed before and that is now causing them real issues, not least with demonstrations across Ireland, and their need to address it and of course that extends to France and the wider EU

    Everyone should hope that tangible and determined efforts will follow and in time end the need for Rwanda
    You talk about "a problem that hadn't existed before". I'm unclear what you mean. There have long been discussions in Ireland around asylum seekers and other immigration issues, and the Northern Ireland border has always been part of that. It was a hot topic in the 2000s, and led to the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-seventh_Amendment_of_the_Constitution_of_Ireland in 2004. It's heated up again more recently. None of this is a result of Rwanda.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586

    Nigelb said:

    This is an interesting POV; is it true ?

    We see the cutthroat competition as cruel and unfair. Yet, for an immigrant it looks the other way around. For a social elevator to really go up, it must be also going down (for someone else). Therefore, the US *and even the UK* offer the opportunities that France/Germany don’t...
    https://twitter.com/kamilkazani/status/1784659090158875080

    Language is probably part of it, also UK is on average less racist, I suspect those combined have a significantly bigger contribution than a perceived meritocracy. Especially as meritocracy has been declining here over the last couple of generations.
    Hmmm. I think the biggest and most visible thing in the U.K. is the openness to people of immigrant origin joining the ruling/upper class.

    Take for example the heads of government(s) in the U.K.

    I work in the City. While some groups have low participation, senior managers being non white British is common.

    I’m not sure about levels of racism. But it strongly suggests that the racism that there is, does not hold back a number of immigrant groups.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,509

    Nigelb said:

    This is an interesting POV; is it true ?

    We see the cutthroat competition as cruel and unfair. Yet, for an immigrant it looks the other way around. For a social elevator to really go up, it must be also going down (for someone else). Therefore, the US *and even the UK* offer the opportunities that France/Germany don’t...
    https://twitter.com/kamilkazani/status/1784659090158875080

    Language is probably part of it, also UK is on average less racist, I suspect those combined have a significantly bigger contribution than a perceived meritocracy. Especially as meritocracy has been declining here over the last couple of generations.
    "Meritocracy' is probably the wrong way to describe it.

    While it's probably true that social mobility has declined in recent years - https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/sep/07/social-mobility-uk-worst-50-years-report-finds - it's the perceived rate compared with that of our European neighbours that counts.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,509
    Stocky said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Humza will be remembered for his infamous "white" speech.

    Re Humza's policies, Carl Sagan's words should be noted:

    “I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time ... when awesome technological powers are in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.”
    Today's GOP.

    The Democrats are not immune, of course, but they are far less likely to dismiss science.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,662
    When I read the header I wasn't sure if it referred to Humza or Rishi....
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,891
    @conor_matchett

    Humza Yousaf will narrowly - and boy is it tight - avoid being Scotland's shortest serving First Minister

    Henry McLeish lasted 392 days before being forced out in 2001

    Mr Yousaf will have lasted 398 if he resigns with immediate effect today.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,891
    Andy_JS said:

    Humza will be remembered for his infamous "white" speech.

    His replacement will of course be white...
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,360

    Apparently Coral are offering 8/1 on John Swinney as next SNP leader.

    Kate Forbes is a very short 1/2.

    That feels too short for Forbes at first sight - as she is the sort of politics not obviously associated with activism and SNP party membership. OTOH the result last time was (second round) 52/48 in favour of Yousef, so there must be a decent number of members who support her.

    Is it possible that SNP members will prove more grown up and centrist than the Tory membership?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,796
    Scott_xP said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Humza will be remembered for his infamous "white" speech.

    His replacement will of course be white...
    Or in the extremely unlikely event of it being Fergus Ewing, red.
  • DonkeysDonkeys Posts: 723
    edited April 29
    Stocky said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Humza will be remembered for his infamous "white" speech.

    Re Humza's policies, Carl Sagan's words should be noted:

    “I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time ... when awesome technological powers are in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.”
    That quote is all over the place. I get it Sagan didn't like the way things were going, but he's not separating his ideation very well here, e.g. as regards technology, minority rule, and what the connection is; nor is he communicating why his foreboding is worthy of attention while other people's "superstition" is bad bad bad. What a silly gobby sod. Charismatic speaker, though. What did he think about psilocybin use in Silicon Valley?

    Here's an extract from Humza Yousaf's "white" speech:

    "Why are we so surprised when the most senior positions in Scotland are filled almost exclusively by people who are white? Take my portfolio, for example.

    The Lord President is white, the Lord Justice Clerk is white, every High Court judge is white, the Lord Advocate is white, the Solicitor General is white, the chief constable is white, every deputy chief constable is white, every assistant chief constable is white, the head of the Law Society is white, the head of the Faculty of Advocates is white and every prison governor is white.

    That is not the case only in justice. The chief medical officer is white, the chief nursing officer is white, the chief veterinary officer is white, the chief social work adviser is white and almost every trade union in the country is headed by white people. In the Scottish Government, every director general is white. Every chair of every public body is white. That is not good enough.
    "

    Nothing superstitious or backward sliding about any of that. The only thing I'd pull him up on is who is this "we" he's talking about? Some of us aren't surprised at all by the collection of facts that he cites.

    Look out for a Gaza reference in his resignation speech.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,796
    Oh dear, I see PB is a bit prudish about a pic published in the Mail and other organs. Fyi it was a pair of tights with a merkin taped to them. No pubic hair was harmed or exposed at this event.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,134
    Nigelb said:

    This is an absolute disgrace.

    Wake up Europe, the digital age is bypassing you. You have no Google , Amazon, Meta, Apple. You arrogantly called SpaceX a fanciful dream and it wiped out the European Space Agency. You have no Nvidia and your response to AI has been to regulate before you have anything domestic to regulate. Your car industry is about to be wiped out by the Chinese. Your biggest economy shut down nuclear out of spite and with fraud. Your capital markets have no liquidity and your startups are drowning in bureaucracy. Your border is being attacked by Russia and your defence spending will have to triple just to be where it was with US subsidy given that part of the former Soviet Union and the Eastern bloc is now part of the EU. Your economy has slumped from the world’s largest to way behind the US. Your pensions are paid by three times less people and cost five times as much as people live longer. Your infrastructure is a model for the world but is configured for rail over self drive. Your electricity grid needs half a trillion of investment to cope with planned capacity and replacements, for the switch to renewables, within a decade. There are bright spots such as pharma and your healthcare system is a model for what civilisation looks like it. But to afford it, you need to completely transform from the industrial to digital age, to reform your institutions and rout the sclerotic bureaucratic system.
    https://twitter.com/daveg/status/1784835703743881256

    It's fewer.

    The United States is a better place to live if you're in the top 20 or 30%, but worse for everyone else. The writer of this quote is probably in the top 1%.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,113
    Nigelb said:

    Stocky said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Humza will be remembered for his infamous "white" speech.

    Re Humza's policies, Carl Sagan's words should be noted:

    “I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time ... when awesome technological powers are in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.”
    Today's GOP.

    The Democrats are not immune, of course, but they are far less likely to dismiss science.
    I disagree. The pseudoscience we are seeing is from a narrow cohort of the left. Previously it was the province of the stupid and ignorant, far more in number. You could, of course, equate the stupid and ignorant with the right/GOP, but I'll refrain from comment!!
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Donkeys said:



    Here's an extract from Humza Yousaf's "white" speech:

    "Why are we so surprised when the most senior positions in Scotland are filled almost exclusively by people who are white? Take my portfolio, for example.

    The Lord President is white, the Lord Justice Clerk is white, every High Court judge is white, the Lord Advocate is white, the Solicitor General is white, the chief constable is white, every deputy chief constable is white, every assistant chief constable is white, the head of the Law Society is white, the head of the Faculty of Advocates is white and every prison governor is white.

    That is not the case only in justice. The chief medical officer is white, the chief nursing officer is white, the chief veterinary officer is white, the chief social work adviser is white and almost every trade union in the country is headed by white people. In the Scottish Government, every director general is white. Every chair of every public body is white. That is not good enough.
    "

    Nothing superstitious or backward sliding about any of that. The only thing I'd pull him up on is who is this "we" he's talking about? Some of us aren't surprised at all by the collection of facts that he cites.

    The Holyrood record is not correct. The Vicar of Bath has asked them why they doctored it but had no reply.

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,297

    Oh dear, I see PB is a bit prudish about a pic published in the Mail and other organs. Fyi it was a pair of tights with a merkin taped to them. No pubic hair was harmed or exposed at this event.

    The Vanilla spam trap classified it as nudity.

    AI eat your heart out.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,360
    Nigelb said:

    This is an absolute disgrace.

    Wake up Europe, the digital age is bypassing you. You have no Google , Amazon, Meta, Apple. You arrogantly called SpaceX a fanciful dream and it wiped out the European Space Agency. You have no Nvidia and your response to AI has been to regulate before you have anything domestic to regulate. Your car industry is about to be wiped out by the Chinese. Your biggest economy shut down nuclear out of spite and with fraud. Your capital markets have no liquidity and your startups are drowning in bureaucracy. Your border is being attacked by Russia and your defence spending will have to triple just to be where it was with US subsidy given that part of the former Soviet Union and the Eastern bloc is now part of the EU. Your economy has slumped from the world’s largest to way behind the US. Your pensions are paid by three times less people and cost five times as much as people live longer. Your infrastructure is a model for the world but is configured for rail over self drive. Your electricity grid needs half a trillion of investment to cope with planned capacity and replacements, for the switch to renewables, within a decade. There are bright spots such as pharma and your healthcare system is a model for what civilisation looks like it. But to afford it, you need to completely transform from the industrial to digital age, to reform your institutions and rout the sclerotic bureaucratic system.
    https://twitter.com/daveg/status/1784835703743881256

    It's fewer.

    A reminder that the articulation and listing of problems is easier than providing solutions. BTW most Europeans live lives of prosperous peaceful ordinariness.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,700

    Andy_JS said:

    I've just reached Sahagún, the official halfway mark, in nine days, two hours and twenty minutes


    Have you visited this part of Spain before?
    I have a few times, but always on road trips to Portugal and only stopping in a few big cities on the way
    I think this is a pilgrimage route?

    Have you done any of the similar routes in the UK - eg Winchester to Canterbury? Though TBF this is of fairly recent coinage, it does strike me as an excellent way to explore nooks and corners, and I don't think any other country has a set of public footpaths like the ones we have here (until the NFU persuade Sunak & friends to allow even more of them to be diverted). I have not tried any yet, but am thinking about it.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    One lesson from Humza Yousaf’s fate: don’t make coalition agreements that rest on deeply unpopular & unscientific ideologies, in this case that gender identity can replace sex and that gender-questioning children benefit from unevidenced and irreversible medical pathways.

    https://x.com/soniasodha/status/1784877200665092145
  • DonkeysDonkeys Posts: 723
    edited April 29
    Itamar Ben-Gvir, Israeli national security minister, member of the security cabinet, and convicted supporter of "terrorism"...

    ...asking the chief of staff why the army is arresting so many Palestinians in Gaza and why they don't just kill them:

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/ben-gvir-said-to-ask-idf-chief-why-so-many-gaza-gunmen-arrested-cant-you-kill-some/

    The way this is being reported in the Israeli press is that Ben-Gvir's cabinet colleagues including in the armed forces were aghast and saw his attitude as terribly un-Israeli.

    Okay so how many prisoners has Israel taken in Gaza during this war?

    And are they

    * allowed Red Cross parcels?
    * allowed to communicate with family?
    * free from degrading treatment?
    * free from compulsion to give info other than name, age, rank, service number?

    See the 3rd Geneva convention.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Something worth watching: when Humza Yousaf took over from Nicola Sturgeon, he barely changed her team of SpAds. Almost all of them kept their jobs. If whoever comes next says things are going to change, pay attention to what happens with the advisers.

    https://x.com/staylorish/status/1784875438088601779

  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,695
    Keep an eye on Woking on Thursday. There are only 4 Conservatives left. All 4 are up for election. The rest were eliminated in previous years. 3 are vulnerable to the LDs, the last is probably vulnerable to an independent. A once Tory council could be free of any Tories after Thursday. Of course the LDs will be defending a lot of seats.

    There are very thin pickings for the LDs in several Surrey boroughs now so on a positive note for the Tories there are going to be huge opportunities in years to come.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947

    One lesson from Humza Yousaf’s fate: don’t make coalition agreements that rest on deeply unpopular & unscientific ideologies, in this case that gender identity can replace sex and that gender-questioning children benefit from unevidenced and irreversible medical pathways.

    https://x.com/soniasodha/status/1784877200665092145

    Or another lesson: Don't try and pander to reactionaries, stick to your principles.

    https://x.com/kuntibula/status/1375597555186549
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,210
    MattW said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I've just reached Sahagún, the official halfway mark, in nine days, two hours and twenty minutes


    Have you visited this part of Spain before?
    I have a few times, but always on road trips to Portugal and only stopping in a few big cities on the way
    I think this is a pilgrimage route?

    Have you done any of the similar routes in the UK - eg Winchester to Canterbury? Though TBF this is of fairly recent coinage, it does strike me as an excellent way to explore nooks and corners, and I don't think any other country has a set of public footpaths like the ones we have here (until the NFU persuade Sunak & friends to allow even more of them to be diverted). I have not tried any yet, but am thinking about it.
    I have walked berween Salisbury and Canterbury although not in the same direction - basically, outwards from Farnham
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,599
    kinabalu said:

    One lesson from Humza Yousaf’s fate: don’t make coalition agreements that rest on deeply unpopular & unscientific ideologies, in this case that gender identity can replace sex and that gender-questioning children benefit from unevidenced and irreversible medical pathways.

    https://x.com/soniasodha/status/1784877200665092145

    Or another lesson: Don't try and pander to reactionaries, stick to your principles.

    https://x.com/kuntibula/status/1375597555186549
    My personal takeaway would be don't become leader of a party which is bankrupt after shenanigans and the former leaders husband is under police investigation. It makes it a tough gig.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,076
    Have we done this delightful anti- Lib Dem bar chart from a Tory party leaflet in Eastbourne
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    What a miscalculation from Yousaf then. The "reset" he was seeking will be taking place without him.

    Does the SNP have a structural problem in that Scots who are for Independence do not share much of a political identity beyond that?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,151
    Humza really did turn out to be Useless, didn't he?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    eek said:

    Have we done this delightful anti- Lib Dem bar chart from a Tory party leaflet in Eastbourne img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/4h/3fwmq1tlzfvs.jpeg" alt="" />

    Well it wasn’t going to be a Lib Dem bar chart, all the bars are in proportion to the numbers on them!
  • TresTres Posts: 2,685
    eek said:

    Have we done this delightful anti- Lib Dem bar chart from a Tory party leaflet in Eastbourne

    Conservatives can't spell here. Still it nice to see a prospective Tory politician willing to be labelled as a Conservative, most of them are ashamed of the label these days.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,599
    kjh said:

    Keep an eye on Woking on Thursday. There are only 4 Conservatives left. All 4 are up for election. The rest were eliminated in previous years. 3 are vulnerable to the LDs, the last is probably vulnerable to an independent. A once Tory council could be free of any Tories after Thursday. Of course the LDs will be defending a lot of seats.

    There are very thin pickings for the LDs in several Surrey boroughs now so on a positive note for the Tories there are going to be huge opportunities in years to come.

    To be fair, after their war on woke it seems like it should be one of the least likely Tory places in the country.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,069
    kinabalu said:

    One lesson from Humza Yousaf’s fate: don’t make coalition agreements that rest on deeply unpopular & unscientific ideologies, in this case that gender identity can replace sex and that gender-questioning children benefit from unevidenced and irreversible medical pathways.

    https://x.com/soniasodha/status/1784877200665092145

    Or another lesson: Don't try and pander to reactionaries, stick to your principles.

    https://x.com/kuntibula/status/1375597555186549
    Or at the very least, don't try and put incompatible groups into your coalition at the same time. It makes your tent huge for a bit, but then it's liable to blow up.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited April 29
    kinabalu said:

    One lesson from Humza Yousaf’s fate: don’t make coalition agreements that rest on deeply unpopular & unscientific ideologies, in this case that gender identity can replace sex and that gender-questioning children benefit from unevidenced and irreversible medical pathways.

    https://x.com/soniasodha/status/1784877200665092145

    Or another lesson: Don't try and pander to reactionaries, stick to your principles.

    https://x.com/kuntibula/status/1375597555186549
    Principles? Bit like the account you quoted.



  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947

    kinabalu said:

    One lesson from Humza Yousaf’s fate: don’t make coalition agreements that rest on deeply unpopular & unscientific ideologies, in this case that gender identity can replace sex and that gender-questioning children benefit from unevidenced and irreversible medical pathways.

    https://x.com/soniasodha/status/1784877200665092145

    Or another lesson: Don't try and pander to reactionaries, stick to your principles.

    https://x.com/kuntibula/status/1375597555186549
    My personal takeaway would be don't become leader of a party which is bankrupt after shenanigans and the former leaders husband is under police investigation. It makes it a tough gig.
    Very. The 'poisoned chalice' predictions have come true. He seems to have rather screwed up here though. Made an enemy of his erstwhile partners the Greens without gaining anything elsewhere.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    kinabalu said:

    What a miscalculation from Yousaf then. The "reset" he was seeking will be taking place without him.

    Does the SNP have a structural problem in that Scots who are for Independence do not share much of a political identity beyond that?

    There does seem to be a much broader left-right axis among the SNP than most other parties, united instead by their desire for self-rule. I suspect that Reform are similar, more united by social than economic policy.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,151
    No sign of Rishi heading off the Palace, I take it?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,749

    TOPPING said:

    As all here may be aware, I yield to no one in my left wing, bring 'em all over, that mug is not in my name, sure I may have been at war with and dropping bombs on them but now I am a big fan and support their struggle against the evil oppressor, pro-immigration stance.

    But Ireland may inadvertently be giving Rishi the support he needs wrt his immigration/Rwanda policy. Pass a law saying they must go back to the last country they came from, eh? Well I never.

    Ireland is in La Francophonie, so Im sure President Macron will do his utmost to help out.
    Perhaps I missed it, but I don't think any French government minister was so dim as to claim credit for asylum seekers crossing the Channel in small boats. None of them said, "you see, our policy to scare asylum seekers to go elsewhere is working," and thereby accept responsibility for it.

    Sunak has accepted that his policy dumps asylum seekers on Ireland, that he is essentially in the same position as Belarus, shoving people across the Polish border, and so that puts Ireland in a much stronger position to demand that he does something about it.

    If he hadn't been so stupid he would have responded to the Irish claims with a gallic shrug, said that the Rwanda policy was intended to stop the boat crossings, and left British voters to join the dots. But he couldn't help himself.
    A key problem with the Rwanda scheme is that it seems unlikely to work, so Sunak and the policy's supporters have fallen on the Irish government's comments like a thirsty man in a desert finding a spring. The value of someone saying "it's working" (even though they are doing so for their own political reasons) is worth more to Sunak than the cost of having to clear up the mess that follows admitting he's shoving people across the Irish border.
    I can understand opponents to the Rwanda scheme dismissing the Irish development but this is a real issue between Ireland and UK that will draw France and the EU into it and hopefully see cooperation and more importantly determination across thee countries to stop the boats once and for all and make Rwanda scheme redundant

    Of course this would be a political result for Sunak but for me stopping the boats is about saving lives at sea not least because our family have lost several family members at sea and why our youngest son is an active RNLI sea going volunteer

    Rwanda is all about political posturing. Wasn't it Cummings who suggested it was a smoke screen to cover up another Johnson scandal?

    I doubt very much the scheme will stop the boats. There were far more robust mechanisms that could have been explored, but a political win is a political win. The Irish issue which has become an unexpected by product is a Daily Mail win for Sunak. Will the boats stop? Very unlikely, but if 6 boats a day becomes five, Sunak will consider that a win.
    What is has done is highlight to Ireland a problem that hadn't existed before and that is now causing them real issues, not least with demonstrations across Ireland, and their need to address it and of course that extends to France and the wider EU

    Everyone should hope that tangible and determined efforts will follow and in time end the need for Rwanda
    You talk about "a problem that hadn't existed before". I'm unclear what you mean. There have long been discussions in Ireland around asylum seekers and other immigration issues, and the Northern Ireland border has always been part of that. It was a hot topic in the 2000s, and led to the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-seventh_Amendment_of_the_Constitution_of_Ireland in 2004. It's heated up again more recently. None of this is a result of Rwanda.
    The issue of asylum seekers moving to Ireland citing Rwanda as the reason

    This is very much a developing news story which hopefully in time will see a positive outcome and reduce if not eliminate the channel crossings in everyone's interests
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947

    kinabalu said:

    One lesson from Humza Yousaf’s fate: don’t make coalition agreements that rest on deeply unpopular & unscientific ideologies, in this case that gender identity can replace sex and that gender-questioning children benefit from unevidenced and irreversible medical pathways.

    https://x.com/soniasodha/status/1784877200665092145

    Or another lesson: Don't try and pander to reactionaries, stick to your principles.

    https://x.com/kuntibula/status/1375597555186549
    Principles? Bit like the account you quoted.
    Just kidding with that. My real account is in my real name with a real photo so I can't link it on here.

    But my point is - just as anti-trans-activists can shoehorn Gender in as the reason for Humza's downfall so others can shoehorn in whatever suits their agenda.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited April 29
    One drama we won’t be having

    I am very pleased Pedro Sanchez has decided to stay on as Prime Minister of Spain. This is obviously good for Gibraltar. It is also good for decent politics. It is good for those who believe, as I do, that it is right to stand and fight for what is right and what is true in the face of lies, personal attacks and attacks in our close friends and families. People in Gibraltar should reflect on what we have seen play out in Spain as similar events surround us in modern politics around the world.

    https://x.com/fabianpicardo/status/1784876056177959031

  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,185
    GIN1138 said:

    No sign of Rishi heading off the Palace, I take it?

    Even if he’d planned to, you can forgive him changing his mind to just enjoy the SNP meltdown.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,599
    GIN1138 said:

    No sign of Rishi heading off the Palace, I take it?

    Think he is a Southampton fan.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,509
    Andy_JS said:

    Nigelb said:

    This is an absolute disgrace.

    Wake up Europe, the digital age is bypassing you. You have no Google , Amazon, Meta, Apple. You arrogantly called SpaceX a fanciful dream and it wiped out the European Space Agency. You have no Nvidia and your response to AI has been to regulate before you have anything domestic to regulate. Your car industry is about to be wiped out by the Chinese. Your biggest economy shut down nuclear out of spite and with fraud. Your capital markets have no liquidity and your startups are drowning in bureaucracy. Your border is being attacked by Russia and your defence spending will have to triple just to be where it was with US subsidy given that part of the former Soviet Union and the Eastern bloc is now part of the EU. Your economy has slumped from the world’s largest to way behind the US. Your pensions are paid by three times less people and cost five times as much as people live longer. Your infrastructure is a model for the world but is configured for rail over self drive. Your electricity grid needs half a trillion of investment to cope with planned capacity and replacements, for the switch to renewables, within a decade. There are bright spots such as pharma and your healthcare system is a model for what civilisation looks like it. But to afford it, you need to completely transform from the industrial to digital age, to reform your institutions and rout the sclerotic bureaucratic system.
    https://twitter.com/daveg/status/1784835703743881256

    It's fewer.

    The United States is a better place to live if you're in the top 20 or 30%, but worse for everyone else. The writer of this quote is probably in the top 1%.
    No doubt.
    I'm pretty sure I don't share his politics either; but he has an entirely valid point about economic and technological development.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,609

    kinabalu said:

    One lesson from Humza Yousaf’s fate: don’t make coalition agreements that rest on deeply unpopular & unscientific ideologies, in this case that gender identity can replace sex and that gender-questioning children benefit from unevidenced and irreversible medical pathways.

    https://x.com/soniasodha/status/1784877200665092145

    Or another lesson: Don't try and pander to reactionaries, stick to your principles.

    https://x.com/kuntibula/status/1375597555186549
    Or at the very least, don't try and put incompatible groups into your coalition at the same time. It makes your tent huge for a bit, but then it's liable to blow up.
    Yes, I'm confused by those claiming that the gender identity politics was the problem, as such. Breaking the agreement with the Greens, over climate targets and/or the GRR/response to Cass Review in England etc seems to be the immediate issue.

    The simplistic lesson,* if taken at face value, is that going gender critical brings down governments :wink:

    *There's clearly a lot more to it than that, but it's one available interpretation. If the Greens had walked due to disagreeing with SNP's gender-affirmative agenda then there'd be more of an argument that those policies sank Yousaf. A more gender critical leader following after Sturgeon might have collapsed the agreement and government more quickly than Yousaf.
This discussion has been closed.