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If it were done when ’tis done, then ’twere wellIt were done quickly – politicalbetting.com

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  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,468

    TOPPING said:

    As all here may be aware, I yield to no one in my left wing, bring 'em all over, that mug is not in my name, sure I may have been at war with and dropping bombs on them but now I am a big fan and support their struggle against the evil oppressor, pro-immigration stance.

    But Ireland may inadvertently be giving Rishi the support he needs wrt his immigration/Rwanda policy. Pass a law saying they must go back to the last country they came from, eh? Well I never.

    Ireland is in La Francophonie, so Im sure President Macron will do his utmost to help out.
    Perhaps I missed it, but I don't think any French government minister was so dim as to claim credit for asylum seekers crossing the Channel in small boats. None of them said, "you see, our policy to scare asylum seekers to go elsewhere is working," and thereby accept responsibility for it.

    Sunak has accepted that his policy dumps asylum seekers on Ireland, that he is essentially in the same position as Belarus, shoving people across the Polish border, and so that puts Ireland in a much stronger position to demand that he does something about it.

    If he hadn't been so stupid he would have responded to the Irish claims with a gallic shrug, said that the Rwanda policy was intended to stop the boat crossings, and left British voters to join the dots. But he couldn't help himself.
    A key problem with the Rwanda scheme is that it seems unlikely to work, so Sunak and the policy's supporters have fallen on the Irish government's comments like a thirsty man in a desert finding a spring. The value of someone saying "it's working" (even though they are doing so for their own political reasons) is worth more to Sunak than the cost of having to clear up the mess that follows admitting he's shoving people across the Irish border.
    I can understand opponents to the Rwanda scheme dismissing the Irish development but this is a real issue between Ireland and UK that will draw France and the EU into it and hopefully see cooperation and more importantly determination across thee countries to stop the boats once and for all and make Rwanda scheme redundant

    Of course this would be a political result for Sunak but for me stopping the boats is about saving lives at sea not least because our family have lost several family members at sea and why our youngest son is an active RNLI sea going volunteer

    Rwanda is all about political posturing. Wasn't it Cummings who suggested it was a smoke screen to cover up another Johnson scandal?

    I doubt very much the scheme will stop the boats. There were far more robust mechanisms that could have been explored, but a political win is a political win. The Irish issue which has become an unexpected by product is a Daily Mail win for Sunak. Will the boats stop? Very unlikely, but if 6 boats a day becomes five, Sunak will consider that a win.
    What is has done is highlight to Ireland a problem that hadn't existed before and that is now causing them real issues, not least with demonstrations across Ireland, and their need to address it and of course that extends to France and the wider EU

    Everyone should hope that tangible and determined efforts will follow and in time end the need for Rwanda
    You talk about "a problem that hadn't existed before". I'm unclear what you mean. There have long been discussions in Ireland around asylum seekers and other immigration issues, and the Northern Ireland border has always been part of that. It was a hot topic in the 2000s, and led to the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-seventh_Amendment_of_the_Constitution_of_Ireland in 2004. It's heated up again more recently. None of this is a result of Rwanda.
    The issue of asylum seekers moving to Ireland citing Rwanda as the reason

    This is very much a developing news story which hopefully in time will see a positive outcome and reduce if not eliminate the channel crossings in everyone's interests
    The evidence that asylum seekers moving to Ireland are citing Rwanda as the reason is minimal. Micheál Martin said this. I'm not aware of his citing any actual evidence. It is convenient for the Irish government to blame the UK, as it is convenient for the UK government to blame Labour peers, the ECHR, woke, the Blob, activist judges etc. etc. etc.

    Yes, hopefully this will see a positive outcome. The rhetoric exchanged so far doesn't give one much hope of that!
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,146
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    One lesson from Humza Yousaf’s fate: don’t make coalition agreements that rest on deeply unpopular & unscientific ideologies, in this case that gender identity can replace sex and that gender-questioning children benefit from unevidenced and irreversible medical pathways.

    https://x.com/soniasodha/status/1784877200665092145

    Or another lesson: Don't try and pander to reactionaries, stick to your principles.

    https://x.com/kuntibula/status/1375597555186549
    Principles? Bit like the account you quoted.
    Just kidding with that. My real account is in my real name with a real photo so I can't link it on here.

    But my point is - just as anti-trans-activists can shoehorn Gender in as the reason for Humza's downfall so others can shoehorn in whatever suits their agenda.
    Is it anti-trans-activists or anti-trans-activists-activists? Or are they just concerned people imbued with common sense and goodwill, with only an occasional need to flash a fake fanny or wave a 'Trump Won' sign at Holyrood?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,468
    Selebian said:

    kinabalu said:

    One lesson from Humza Yousaf’s fate: don’t make coalition agreements that rest on deeply unpopular & unscientific ideologies, in this case that gender identity can replace sex and that gender-questioning children benefit from unevidenced and irreversible medical pathways.

    https://x.com/soniasodha/status/1784877200665092145

    Or another lesson: Don't try and pander to reactionaries, stick to your principles.

    https://x.com/kuntibula/status/1375597555186549
    Or at the very least, don't try and put incompatible groups into your coalition at the same time. It makes your tent huge for a bit, but then it's liable to blow up.
    Yes, I'm confused by those claiming that the gender identity politics was the problem, as such. Breaking the agreement with the Greens, over climate targets and/or the GRR/response to Cass Review in England etc seems to be the immediate issue.

    The simplistic lesson,* if taken at face value, is that going gender critical brings down governments :wink:

    *There's clearly a lot more to it than that, but it's one available interpretation. If the Greens had walked due to disagreeing with SNP's gender-affirmative agenda then there'd be more of an argument that those policies sank Yousaf. A more gender critical leader following after Sturgeon might have collapsed the agreement and government more quickly than Yousaf.
    It was the climate targets being dropped that seemed a more important trigger.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,177
    Stocky said:

    Nigelb said:

    Stocky said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Humza will be remembered for his infamous "white" speech.

    Re Humza's policies, Carl Sagan's words should be noted:

    “I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time ... when awesome technological powers are in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.”
    Today's GOP.

    The Democrats are not immune, of course, but they are far less likely to dismiss science.
    I disagree. The pseudoscience we are seeing is from a narrow cohort of the left. Previously it was the province of the stupid and ignorant, far more in number. You could, of course, equate the stupid and ignorant with the right/GOP, but I'll refrain from comment!!
    I rather suspected you would.
    But the policy difference between the two parties is quite clear.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,704
    eek said:

    Have we done this delightful anti- Lib Dem bar chart from a Tory party leaflet in Eastbourne

    Are they canvassing for Labour?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,909

    TOPPING said:

    As all here may be aware, I yield to no one in my left wing, bring 'em all over, that mug is not in my name, sure I may have been at war with and dropping bombs on them but now I am a big fan and support their struggle against the evil oppressor, pro-immigration stance.

    But Ireland may inadvertently be giving Rishi the support he needs wrt his immigration/Rwanda policy. Pass a law saying they must go back to the last country they came from, eh? Well I never.

    Ireland is in La Francophonie, so Im sure President Macron will do his utmost to help out.
    Perhaps I missed it, but I don't think any French government minister was so dim as to claim credit for asylum seekers crossing the Channel in small boats. None of them said, "you see, our policy to scare asylum seekers to go elsewhere is working," and thereby accept responsibility for it.

    Sunak has accepted that his policy dumps asylum seekers on Ireland, that he is essentially in the same position as Belarus, shoving people across the Polish border, and so that puts Ireland in a much stronger position to demand that he does something about it.

    If he hadn't been so stupid he would have responded to the Irish claims with a gallic shrug, said that the Rwanda policy was intended to stop the boat crossings, and left British voters to join the dots. But he couldn't help himself.
    A key problem with the Rwanda scheme is that it seems unlikely to work, so Sunak and the policy's supporters have fallen on the Irish government's comments like a thirsty man in a desert finding a spring. The value of someone saying "it's working" (even though they are doing so for their own political reasons) is worth more to Sunak than the cost of having to clear up the mess that follows admitting he's shoving people across the Irish border.
    I can understand opponents to the Rwanda scheme dismissing the Irish development but this is a real issue between Ireland and UK that will draw France and the EU into it and hopefully see cooperation and more importantly determination across thee countries to stop the boats once and for all and make Rwanda scheme redundant

    Of course this would be a political result for Sunak but for me stopping the boats is about saving lives at sea not least because our family have lost several family members at sea and why our youngest son is an active RNLI sea going volunteer

    Rwanda is all about political posturing. Wasn't it Cummings who suggested it was a smoke screen to cover up another Johnson scandal?

    I doubt very much the scheme will stop the boats. There were far more robust mechanisms that could have been explored, but a political win is a political win. The Irish issue which has become an unexpected by product is a Daily Mail win for Sunak. Will the boats stop? Very unlikely, but if 6 boats a day becomes five, Sunak will consider that a win.
    What is has done is highlight to Ireland a problem that hadn't existed before and that is now causing them real issues, not least with demonstrations across Ireland, and their need to address it and of course that extends to France and the wider EU

    Everyone should hope that tangible and determined efforts will follow and in time end the need for Rwanda
    You talk about "a problem that hadn't existed before". I'm unclear what you mean. There have long been discussions in Ireland around asylum seekers and other immigration issues, and the Northern Ireland border has always been part of that. It was a hot topic in the 2000s, and led to the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-seventh_Amendment_of_the_Constitution_of_Ireland in 2004. It's heated up again more recently. None of this is a result of Rwanda.
    The issue of asylum seekers moving to Ireland citing Rwanda as the reason

    This is very much a developing news story which hopefully in time will see a positive outcome and reduce if not eliminate the channel crossings in everyone's interests
    The evidence that asylum seekers moving to Ireland are citing Rwanda as the reason is minimal. Micheál Martin said this. I'm not aware of his citing any actual evidence. It is convenient for the Irish government to blame the UK, as it is convenient for the UK government to blame Labour peers, the ECHR, woke, the Blob, activist judges etc. etc. etc.

    Yes, hopefully this will see a positive outcome. The rhetoric exchanged so far doesn't give one much hope of that!
    A planned meeting between the British Home Secretary and the Irish Justice Minister has been cancelled as a result.

    I think it suits both sides to grandstand for the benefit of their voters for a bit, rather than to talk.
  • Who do the SNP have who can recover their fortunes? Anyone obvious? The fact they found a Humza isn't promising - very reminiscent of the Cons and La Truss.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,832

    Selebian said:

    kinabalu said:

    One lesson from Humza Yousaf’s fate: don’t make coalition agreements that rest on deeply unpopular & unscientific ideologies, in this case that gender identity can replace sex and that gender-questioning children benefit from unevidenced and irreversible medical pathways.

    https://x.com/soniasodha/status/1784877200665092145

    Or another lesson: Don't try and pander to reactionaries, stick to your principles.

    https://x.com/kuntibula/status/1375597555186549
    Or at the very least, don't try and put incompatible groups into your coalition at the same time. It makes your tent huge for a bit, but then it's liable to blow up.
    Yes, I'm confused by those claiming that the gender identity politics was the problem, as such. Breaking the agreement with the Greens, over climate targets and/or the GRR/response to Cass Review in England etc seems to be the immediate issue.

    The simplistic lesson,* if taken at face value, is that going gender critical brings down governments :wink:

    *There's clearly a lot more to it than that, but it's one available interpretation. If the Greens had walked due to disagreeing with SNP's gender-affirmative agenda then there'd be more of an argument that those policies sank Yousaf. A more gender critical leader following after Sturgeon might have collapsed the agreement and government more quickly than Yousaf.
    It was the climate targets being dropped that seemed a more important trigger.
    I must admit I thought that (being more central to the Green Party, one would think) but not being a PB Scotch Expert(TM) I've been reluctant to commit myself too much. There have been posts here assuring everyone that it's all gender-related.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,949
    Not enough money for new trains on the Central Line.

    https://www.mylondon.news/news/transport/exactly-london-underground-revamped-central-28845199

    "TfL has revealed when the next revamped Central line trains will enter service on the London Underground. The 1992 stock is being upgraded as part of a £500 million programme.

    The Mayor of London, Sadiq Khan, and TfL bosses say a brand new fleet of trains is not possible as they have not been given enough cash by central government. Instead, carriages are being renovated with new seats, LED lighting, CCTV and IT systems.

    A new moquette, wheels and motors are also being installed. However, engineers told MyLondon in November that technical constraints mean that it is not possible to fit air conditioning."
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,650

    kinabalu said:

    One lesson from Humza Yousaf’s fate: don’t make coalition agreements that rest on deeply unpopular & unscientific ideologies, in this case that gender identity can replace sex and that gender-questioning children benefit from unevidenced and irreversible medical pathways.

    https://x.com/soniasodha/status/1784877200665092145

    Or another lesson: Don't try and pander to reactionaries, stick to your principles.

    https://x.com/kuntibula/status/1375597555186549
    Or at the very least, don't try and put incompatible groups into your coalition at the same time. It makes your tent huge for a bit, but then it's liable to blow up.
    It'll be interesting where the SNP go from here. IMO the big thing they have to avoid is Independence becoming more of a gentle long-term aspiration than a real live Get Sindy Done fight in the here & now.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,805

    Who do the SNP have who can recover their fortunes? Anyone obvious? The fact they found a Humza isn't promising - very reminiscent of the Cons and La Truss.

    That's a bit harsh on Humza, surely he's the SNP Sunak - not totally crazy but not very good at politics. Their Truss is yet to come.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,650
    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    What a miscalculation from Yousaf then. The "reset" he was seeking will be taking place without him.

    Does the SNP have a structural problem in that Scots who are for Independence do not share much of a political identity beyond that?

    There does seem to be a much broader left-right axis among the SNP than most other parties, united instead by their desire for self-rule. I suspect that Reform are similar, more united by social than economic policy.
    My sense is that the core of Reform are people who voted "Boris not Tory" in 2019.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,899

    eek said:

    Have we done this delightful anti- Lib Dem bar chart from a Tory party leaflet in Eastbourne

    Are they canvassing for Labour?
    I think they are aiming for the sub-11 IQ vote.

    Lib Dem target seat No 9. Won by the Tories last time on an LD->C swing of 5%, with a 4,8% majority.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,832
    Nigelb said:

    This is an absolute disgrace.

    Wake up Europe, the digital age is bypassing you. You have no Google , Amazon, Meta, Apple. You arrogantly called SpaceX a fanciful dream and it wiped out the European Space Agency. You have no Nvidia and your response to AI has been to regulate before you have anything domestic to regulate. Your car industry is about to be wiped out by the Chinese. Your biggest economy shut down nuclear out of spite and with fraud. Your capital markets have no liquidity and your startups are drowning in bureaucracy. Your border is being attacked by Russia and your defence spending will have to triple just to be where it was with US subsidy given that part of the former Soviet Union and the Eastern bloc is now part of the EU. Your economy has slumped from the world’s largest to way behind the US. Your pensions are paid by three times less people and cost five times as much as people live longer. Your infrastructure is a model for the world but is configured for rail over self drive. Your electricity grid needs half a trillion of investment to cope with planned capacity and replacements, for the switch to renewables, within a decade. There are bright spots such as pharma and your healthcare system is a model for what civilisation looks like it. But to afford it, you need to completely transform from the industrial to digital age, to reform your institutions and rout the sclerotic bureaucratic system.
    https://twitter.com/daveg/status/1784835703743881256

    It's fewer.

    Also, even if you correct that: three times less/fewer? So a negative population twice the (negative) size of the original population. 1M becomes -2M?
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,124

    eek said:

    Have we done this delightful anti- Lib Dem bar chart from a Tory party leaflet in Eastbourne

    Are they canvassing for Labour?
    One thing I can pretty much guarantee: the chances of the Lib Dems voting to keep the Tories in power is nil.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,145
    Andy_JS said:

    Not enough money for new trains on the Central Line.

    https://www.mylondon.news/news/transport/exactly-london-underground-revamped-central-28845199

    "TfL has revealed when the next revamped Central line trains will enter service on the London Underground. The 1992 stock is being upgraded as part of a £500 million programme.

    The Mayor of London, Sadiq Khan, and TfL bosses say a brand new fleet of trains is not possible as they have not been given enough cash by central government. Instead, carriages are being renovated with new seats, LED lighting, CCTV and IT systems.

    A new moquette, wheels and motors are also being installed. However, engineers told MyLondon in November that technical constraints mean that it is not possible to fit air conditioning."

    So basically the old 1992 trains are self certifying as 2024 trains? This could get very messy indeed.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,568
    Good riddance and fuck off to Humza “WHITE!!” Yousaf. An odious race baiter and a piece of dreck

  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,920

    eek said:

    Have we done this delightful anti- Lib Dem bar chart from a Tory party leaflet in Eastbourne

    Are they canvassing for Labour?
    Of course the Conservatives are cnvassing for Labour!!! They know the threat in Eastbourne is from the Liberal Democrats. This is something that the Conservatives always do, when they are worried.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,390
    Although I know full well this will be ignored, may I suggest the word "people" instead of "activists"....

    [EDIT: and "person" instead of "activist"]
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,899
    Latest Sunak make life more difficult for disabled people policy.

    There may (or may not) be an issue - but the application process is horrible and a mess; around half of all Appeals have the decision reversed aiui. The stats are complex enough that they will take a lot of disentangling; I think in his quoting of a % rate only, Sunak is fudging the denominator.

    I'd say it's a normal Hail Mary Hula Hoop rather than Governing the country thoughtfully.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn0ry09d50wo

    https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/personal-independence-payment-statistics-to-july-2023/

  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,942
    eek said:

    Have we done this delightful anti- Lib Dem bar chart from a Tory party leaflet in Eastbourne

    Excellent piece by the Tories telling the electors of Eastbourne who the challengers are.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,919
    edited April 29

    Who do the SNP have who can recover their fortunes? Anyone obvious? The fact they found a Humza isn't promising - very reminiscent of the Cons and La Truss.

    I don’t think there is anyone. Like the Tories in Westminster they need to go into opposition now for a bit. Some time away might actually help them, particularly if Labour lead the UK and Scottish governments - they stand a good chance of capitalising when they come unstuck.

    People seem to really rate Forbes on here. I think she’s OK, I just don’t think she’s going to do anything to help them right now, she will just start a big debate in the party over social policy and there’ll be a risk that they lose support on the left to the Greens and Labour… she also can’t command a majority.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,899
    On topic.

    What would the expectation of outcome be if a Holyrood Election were held now?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,586
    MattW said:

    Latest Sunak make life more difficult for disabled people policy.

    There may (or may not) be an issue - but the application process is horrible and a mess; around half of all Appeals have the decision reversed aiui. The stats are complex enough that they will take a lot of disentangling; I think in his quoting of a % rate only, Sunak is fudging the denominator.

    I'd say it's a normal Hail Mary Hula Hoop rather than Governing the country thoughtfully.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn0ry09d50wo

    https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/personal-independence-payment-statistics-to-july-2023/

    And yet the example they use is someone for whom suitable jobs exist and are available.

    I could highlight a whole set of people who have failed PIPs for utterly stupid reasons and yet this person seems well enough to have truely played the system to get a decent “retirement” in the North East
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,949
    edited April 29
    MattW said:

    On topic.

    What would the expectation of outcome be if a Holyrood Election were held now?

    Probably a Labour minority government with confidence and supply provided by LDs and Tories.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_Scottish_Parliament_election#Regional_vote
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,146
    edited April 29
    Leon said:

    Good riddance and fuck off to Humza “WHITE!!” Yousaf. An odious race baiter and a piece of dreck

    I thought as a self confessed racist apparently in fear of being cancelled that you would have some sympathy?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,390
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-68908558

    It's a Roman D&D dice (OK, "die" :) ) for many happy hours arguing about whether the Dungeon Master can rule that.

    Obviously
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,568

    Who do the SNP have who can recover their fortunes? Anyone obvious? The fact they found a Humza isn't promising - very reminiscent of the Cons and La Truss.

    I don’t think there is anyone. Like the Tories in Westminster they need to go into opposition now for a bit. Some time away might actually help them, particularly if Labour lead the UK and Scottish governments - they stand a good chance of capitalising when they come unstuck.

    People seem to really rate Forbes on here. I think she’s OK, I just don’t think she’s going to do anything to help them right now, she will just start a big debate in the party over social policy and there’ll be a risk that they lose support on the left to the Greens and Labour… she also can’t command a majority.
    I really rate Forbes but then I would. She’s obviously centre right and quite unwoke. I fear she’d be good and intelligent and drive Indy again; I console myself that the Nats are too bats and too left wing to tolerate her. Also she’s better off waiting for the two election defeats to pass before making another bid: if she is so minded

    So who else?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,909
    The main problem the SNP face is that there's no progress towards achieving independence. Any new leader will need to have a strategy for achieving independence that has more chance of success than asking Westminster for a second referendum based on whatever arbitrary pretext they can manufacture.

    It's the only way to reconcile people who otherwise disagree on so much. It was the promise that Sturgeon would assemble an irresistible level of support for Independence that kept a lid on the disagreements for so long.

    The pro-Treaty side in Ireland defended the concessions they'd made to Britain by saying that it at least gave Ireland the "freedom to achieve freedom."

    Something of that same spirit in relation to devolution would, I think, be in the SNP's best interests.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,704
    Cicero said:

    eek said:

    Have we done this delightful anti- Lib Dem bar chart from a Tory party leaflet in Eastbourne

    Are they canvassing for Labour?
    One thing I can pretty much guarantee: the chances of the Lib Dems voting to keep the Tories in power is nil.
    Yes; being treated, effectively, as Cameron's main opponents in 2015 will be remembered for quite a while, I suspect. There were quite a few LibDems who regretted that the maths in 2010 didn't allow for another Lib/Lab deal, too.
    Whether they're still about in the party I don't know. I'm not, but at least part of the reason is health.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,277
    edited April 29
    So the Tories answer to the increasing cost of welfare is to make life much harder for those who might be on an NHS waiting list .

    The waiting lists they have presided over . And Mel Stride does that really fxcking annoying thing by stating that the British people support this latest attempt at othering .

    The Tories are becoming more loathsome by the day .
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,593
    Andy_JS said:

    Humza will be remembered for his infamous "white" speech.

    For me, it was his Holocaust Memorial Day speech when he couldn't bring himself to say the words "Jew" or "Jewish".
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,899
    edited April 29
    eek said:

    MattW said:

    Latest Sunak make life more difficult for disabled people policy.

    There may (or may not) be an issue - but the application process is horrible and a mess; around half of all Appeals have the decision reversed aiui. The stats are complex enough that they will take a lot of disentangling; I think in his quoting of a % rate only, Sunak is fudging the denominator.

    I'd say it's a normal Hail Mary Hula Hoop rather than Governing the country thoughtfully.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn0ry09d50wo

    https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/personal-independence-payment-statistics-to-july-2023/

    And yet the example they use is someone for whom suitable jobs exist and are available.

    I could highlight a whole set of people who have failed PIPs for utterly stupid reasons and yet this person seems well enough to have truely played the system to get a decent “retirement” in the North East
    It's a strange one. I know people who can only walk around the house who have been refused.

    The BBC piece does not address any Higher Rate claimants, and the single mental health case highlighted only receives £72 per week, so it's hardly 'retirement'.

    But the solution is abuse is to fix the system for right-use, not to attack everyone.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,390
    MattW said:

    Latest Sunak make life more difficult for disabled people policy.

    There may (or may not) be an issue - but the application process is horrible and a mess; around half of all Appeals have the decision reversed aiui. The stats are complex enough that they will take a lot of disentangling; I think in his quoting of a % rate only, Sunak is fudging the denominator.

    I'd say it's a normal Hail Mary Hula Hoop rather than Governing the country thoughtfully.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn0ry09d50wo

    https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/personal-independence-payment-statistics-to-july-2023/

    The problem with the current British government (and, let's be honest, the next one) is that it thinks the working class is there to serve them and the economy, and if they don't well then they're just slacking.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,468
    MattW said:

    On topic.

    What would the expectation of outcome be if a Holyrood Election were held now?

    The polling, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_Scottish_Parliament_election , suggests big SNP losses, moderate Tory losses, Labour gains, small LibDem gains, maybe small Green gains, maybe Reform UK get something, Alba nowhere.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,326

    I've just reached Sahagún, the official halfway mark, in nine days, two hours and twenty minutes


    Glorious. I really admire you for doing this and love reading your reports.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,919

    The main problem the SNP face is that there's no progress towards achieving independence. Any new leader will need to have a strategy for achieving independence that has more chance of success than asking Westminster for a second referendum based on whatever arbitrary pretext they can manufacture.

    It's the only way to reconcile people who otherwise disagree on so much. It was the promise that Sturgeon would assemble an irresistible level of support for Independence that kept a lid on the disagreements for so long.

    The pro-Treaty side in Ireland defended the concessions they'd made to Britain by saying that it at least gave Ireland the "freedom to achieve freedom."

    Something of that same spirit in relation to devolution would, I think, be in the SNP's best interests.

    Fundamentally, they need to make an agreement with the Westminster government about the conditions under which a new referendum would be held. There is no other way forward other than UDI.

    Labour might sign up to this if it gets it off the agenda for a decade or so. While it will infuriate the more belligerent Nats, what else can they do?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,650

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    One lesson from Humza Yousaf’s fate: don’t make coalition agreements that rest on deeply unpopular & unscientific ideologies, in this case that gender identity can replace sex and that gender-questioning children benefit from unevidenced and irreversible medical pathways.

    https://x.com/soniasodha/status/1784877200665092145

    Or another lesson: Don't try and pander to reactionaries, stick to your principles.

    https://x.com/kuntibula/status/1375597555186549
    Principles? Bit like the account you quoted.
    Just kidding with that. My real account is in my real name with a real photo so I can't link it on here.

    But my point is - just as anti-trans-activists can shoehorn Gender in as the reason for Humza's downfall so others can shoehorn in whatever suits their agenda.
    Is it anti-trans-activists or anti-trans-activists-activists? Or are they just concerned people imbued with common sense and goodwill, with only an occasional need to flash a fake fanny or wave a 'Trump Won' sign at Holyrood?
    Funny looking "realists" they are and no mistake.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,277
    ClippP said:

    eek said:

    Have we done this delightful anti- Lib Dem bar chart from a Tory party leaflet in Eastbourne

    Are they canvassing for Labour?
    Of course the Conservatives are cnvassing for Labour!!! They know the threat in Eastbourne is from the Liberal Democrats. This is something that the Conservatives always do, when they are worried.
    I live in Eastbourne and it would be a huge shock if the Tories hold this seat . This should be an easy Lib Dem win .
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,568

    Leon said:

    Good riddance and fuck off to Humza “WHITE!!” Yousaf. An odious race baiter and a piece of dreck

    I thought as a self confessed racist apparently in fear of being cancelled that you would have some sympathy?
    Tut tut

    Also *points and sniggers at your party and cause*
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,704
    MattW said:

    eek said:

    MattW said:

    Latest Sunak make life more difficult for disabled people policy.

    There may (or may not) be an issue - but the application process is horrible and a mess; around half of all Appeals have the decision reversed aiui. The stats are complex enough that they will take a lot of disentangling; I think in his quoting of a % rate only, Sunak is fudging the denominator.

    I'd say it's a normal Hail Mary Hula Hoop rather than Governing the country thoughtfully.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn0ry09d50wo

    https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/personal-independence-payment-statistics-to-july-2023/

    And yet the example they use is someone for whom suitable jobs exist and are available.

    I could highlight a whole set of people who have failed PIPs for utterly stupid reasons and yet this person seems well enough to have truely played the system to get a decent “retirement” in the North East
    It's a strange one. I know people who can only walk around the house who have been refused.

    But the solution is abuse is to fix the system for right-use, not to attack everyone.
    We are still waiting for the Attendance Allowance we applied for back in January. Our current grant runs out in May!
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,593

    eek said:

    Have we done this delightful anti- Lib Dem bar chart from a Tory party leaflet in Eastbourne

    Are they canvassing for Labour?
    The point of bar-charts is to make the election look "close".
    This one shows the Tories so far ahead that "Oh, one more LD MP won't hurt".
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,919
    Leon said:

    Who do the SNP have who can recover their fortunes? Anyone obvious? The fact they found a Humza isn't promising - very reminiscent of the Cons and La Truss.

    I don’t think there is anyone. Like the Tories in Westminster they need to go into opposition now for a bit. Some time away might actually help them, particularly if Labour lead the UK and Scottish governments - they stand a good chance of capitalising when they come unstuck.

    People seem to really rate Forbes on here. I think she’s OK, I just don’t think she’s going to do anything to help them right now, she will just start a big debate in the party over social policy and there’ll be a risk that they lose support on the left to the Greens and Labour… she also can’t command a majority.
    I really rate Forbes but then I would. She’s obviously centre right and quite unwoke. I fear she’d be good and intelligent and drive Indy again; I console myself that the Nats are too bats and too left wing to tolerate her. Also she’s better off waiting for the two election defeats to pass before making another bid: if she is so minded

    So who else?
    Forbes might help the cause in the long term by galvanising a more centrist vision of independence away from Nicola’s Coalition of All The Social Justice Warriors, but I don’t foresee her being a success in the short term.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,146
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Good riddance and fuck off to Humza “WHITE!!” Yousaf. An odious race baiter and a piece of dreck

    I thought as a self confessed racist apparently in fear of being cancelled that you would have some sympathy?
    Tut tut

    Also *points and sniggers at your party and cause*
    Since you hate your party and think your main 'cause', the UK, is a shithole, there's quite a lot of sniggering going on.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,899

    MattW said:

    eek said:

    MattW said:

    Latest Sunak make life more difficult for disabled people policy.

    There may (or may not) be an issue - but the application process is horrible and a mess; around half of all Appeals have the decision reversed aiui. The stats are complex enough that they will take a lot of disentangling; I think in his quoting of a % rate only, Sunak is fudging the denominator.

    I'd say it's a normal Hail Mary Hula Hoop rather than Governing the country thoughtfully.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn0ry09d50wo

    https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/personal-independence-payment-statistics-to-july-2023/

    And yet the example they use is someone for whom suitable jobs exist and are available.

    I could highlight a whole set of people who have failed PIPs for utterly stupid reasons and yet this person seems well enough to have truely played the system to get a decent “retirement” in the North East
    It's a strange one. I know people who can only walk around the house who have been refused.

    But the solution is abuse is to fix the system for right-use, not to attack everyone.
    We are still waiting for the Attendance Allowance we applied for back in January. Our current grant runs out in May!
    TBH I'm surprised you are not being transferred to something else; I thought that AA had gone.

    Are you .. er .. "grandfathered" in?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,861

    Who do the SNP have who can recover their fortunes? Anyone obvious? The fact they found a Humza isn't promising - very reminiscent of the Cons and La Truss.

    I don’t think there is anyone. Like the Tories in Westminster they need to go into opposition now for a bit. Some time away might actually help them, particularly if Labour lead the UK and Scottish governments - they stand a good chance of capitalising when they come unstuck.

    People seem to really rate Forbes on here. I think she’s OK, I just don’t think she’s going to do anything to help them right now, she will just start a big debate in the party over social policy and there’ll be a risk that they lose support on the left to the Greens and Labour… she also can’t command a majority.
    Whether there is anyone who can help the SNP depends on what outcomes are intended. They seem oblivious to the fact that they lost the referendum only 10 years ago. So a rapid fresh vote is more or less impossible. Do they want to be a political party like any other - and run such stuff as is given to them to run by the electors? Or do they want independence.

    To do both (most would give that answer) requires two things: High levels of competence so that we all look at Scotland as a shining example of how to run democracy, schools, hospitals, roads, transport, social care, universities, ag and fish and so on. And also great persuasive powers to show that they can also be brilliant at all the other stuff, like defence, fiscal policy, balancing the books, taxation, European policy, diplomacy and all that.

    Lastly, to achieve independence they need the referendum votes of those who would not vote for the party. This requires grown up, centrist, consensus politics.

    The battering ram approach has failed. Step forward K Forbes. Except I hope not, as I am a unionist.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,145
    edited April 29
    I haven't eaten here, right by the basilica in Assisi, for over twenty years yet it's still as good as I remember. An exception to the usually sensible advice to avoid places overlooking major tourist spots.

    Six Chinese or Korean tourists have just left, having been told there is no pizza and then having their request for one plate of spaghetti to share between them refused. Meanwhile it's early on a beautiful lunchtime; a lazier day today as the dog was knackered in the hot sun yesterday and is still recovering from a broken nail.


  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    I am the very model of a modern Guardian columnist
    I’ve all the personality and charm of a sebaceous cyst
    I like to think I’m something of a public intellectual
    I’m deeply superficial and completely ineffectual (contd)



    https://x.com/QueensSpeechUK/status/1784846107169669331
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,568

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    This is disturbing.

    A former minister sanctioned by China was detained and deported by an East African country with close ties to the Chinese state, The Telegraph can reveal.

    Tim Loughton, a senior member of the Commons’ home affairs committee, believes his unprecedented and “intimidating” detention and expulsion by the Djibouti authorities was a “direct consequence” of his criticism of the Chinese regime.

    It is understood the Foreign Office is seeking an explanation from the Djiboutis over his treatment. Mr Loughton has raised the affair with Andrew Mitchell, the deputy Foreign Secretary, and written to the Djibouti ambassador via the Foreign Office to protest about the “outrageous” behaviour.

    Mr Loughton arrived in Djibouti on April 8 for a 24-hour visit including meeting the British ambassador, but was detained for more than seven hours at the airport, barred entry to the country and told he was being removed on the next available flight.

    Mr Loughton is one of seven parliamentarians sanctioned by the Chinese more than three years ago for speaking out against the “industrial scale” of human rights abuses by China against the Uighurs, Tibetans and Hong Kongers.

    Djibouti, Africa’s smallest nation, has received billions of dollars of investment from China, including a new stadium, hospital and $1 billion (£791 million) space port. China has built a naval base in the country, stationed 2,000 troops there and holds more than $1.4 billion of Djibouti’s debt, 45 per cent of its GDP.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/04/28/tim-loughton-djibouti-detained-deported-china-sanctions/

    That is disturbing. Also: wow. Djibouti is completely absorbed. It is a protectorate and a dependency. The Chinese have built a Stealth Empire. Cf Sri Lanka

    The Indian Ocean is theirs, as it was once Britain’s
    Not while they lack blue water capability

    Leon making his usual, nonsensical 'let's panic' analysis.
    China doesn't even have an Indian Ocean coastline.

    Djibouti, which houses US and European military bases, is not "completely absorbed", either.
    Country with 1 in 6 of the global population and similar share of global GDP has global influence shocker.
    In what possible way am I panicking?! lol. I’m sitting in a car park at Camaret-sur-Mer eating a supermarket picnic as I got bored of nice patisserie

    (NB to travelers: always pack salt pepper soy Tabasco and sriracha; and two knives - one Swiss and one folder like opinel)

    China is slowly taking over the Indian Ocean. It is a fact not some mind burp of my hysterical brain. They do it by huge investment and at the same time debt bondage. Sri Lanka is the prime example. China basically owns Sri Lanka and they just elected a China friendly PM (to the chagrin of India). Sri Lanka as a base unlocks the whole ocean - roughly equidistant between China and Chinese interests in Africa (like Djibouti)

    https://www.thehindu.com/news/international/china-to-develop-strategic-infrastructure-sri-lanka-pm/article67998716.ece


    https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/chinas-sinopec-charts-global-expansion-with-refinery-rival-indias-backyard-2024-04-25/
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,453
    Andy_JS said:

    Nigelb said:

    This is an interesting POV; is it true ?

    We see the cutthroat competition as cruel and unfair. Yet, for an immigrant it looks the other way around. For a social elevator to really go up, it must be also going down (for someone else). Therefore, the US *and even the UK* offer the opportunities that France/Germany don’t...
    https://twitter.com/kamilkazani/status/1784659090158875080

    Those figures for France are horrible, if correct. Most immigrant groups going backwards compared to their parents.
    Nah it’s not true

    It assumes that “opportunity” is a zero sum game and that if an immigrant is doing better then someone else is doing worse

    We need a structure and environment where everyone can achieve their full potential

  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,568
    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Nigelb said:

    This is an absolute disgrace.

    Wake up Europe, the digital age is bypassing you. You have no Google , Amazon, Meta, Apple. You arrogantly called SpaceX a fanciful dream and it wiped out the European Space Agency. You have no Nvidia and your response to AI has been to regulate before you have anything domestic to regulate. Your car industry is about to be wiped out by the Chinese. Your biggest economy shut down nuclear out of spite and with fraud. Your capital markets have no liquidity and your startups are drowning in bureaucracy. Your border is being attacked by Russia and your defence spending will have to triple just to be where it was with US subsidy given that part of the former Soviet Union and the Eastern bloc is now part of the EU. Your economy has slumped from the world’s largest to way behind the US. Your pensions are paid by three times less people and cost five times as much as people live longer. Your infrastructure is a model for the world but is configured for rail over self drive. Your electricity grid needs half a trillion of investment to cope with planned capacity and replacements, for the switch to renewables, within a decade. There are bright spots such as pharma and your healthcare system is a model for what civilisation looks like it. But to afford it, you need to completely transform from the industrial to digital age, to reform your institutions and rout the sclerotic bureaucratic system.
    https://twitter.com/daveg/status/1784835703743881256

    It's fewer.

    The United States is a better place to live if you're in the top 20 or 30%, but worse for everyone else. The writer of this quote is probably in the top 1%.
    No doubt.
    I'm pretty sure I don't share his politics either; but he has an entirely valid point about economic and technological development.
    He does. AI in particular

    Tho I would still far rather live in Europe than the USA. Europe is so beautiful and varied and interesting

    *sets off for Dinan*
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,909
    edited April 29

    The main problem the SNP face is that there's no progress towards achieving independence. Any new leader will need to have a strategy for achieving independence that has more chance of success than asking Westminster for a second referendum based on whatever arbitrary pretext they can manufacture.

    It's the only way to reconcile people who otherwise disagree on so much. It was the promise that Sturgeon would assemble an irresistible level of support for Independence that kept a lid on the disagreements for so long.

    The pro-Treaty side in Ireland defended the concessions they'd made to Britain by saying that it at least gave Ireland the "freedom to achieve freedom."

    Something of that same spirit in relation to devolution would, I think, be in the SNP's best interests.

    Fundamentally, they need to make an agreement with the Westminster government about the conditions under which a new referendum would be held. There is no other way forward other than UDI.

    Labour might sign up to this if it gets it off the agenda for a decade or so. While it will infuriate the more belligerent Nats, what else can they do?
    If they can make a case for Independence that wins support of 60-70% of the Scottish population than a referendum becomes an inevitable formality, rather than a massive risk for a UK PM.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Humza Yousaf’s resignation speech bingo:

    Racism blamed.
    Not mentioning the Cass report.
    Not mentioning GRR/identity politics.
    Hot air about all he has achieved as FM with no specifics as to what.
    Dig at Alba.
    New leader must continue in progressive direction blah blah blah.


    https://x.com/CleverclogsNina/status/1784886852748558517
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065
    eek said:

    Have we done this delightful anti- Lib Dem bar chart from a Tory party leaflet in Eastbourne

    It's wierd that by "here" they mean "all of the UK", because the barchart is the UK wide seats for the last GE.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,704
    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    eek said:

    MattW said:

    Latest Sunak make life more difficult for disabled people policy.

    There may (or may not) be an issue - but the application process is horrible and a mess; around half of all Appeals have the decision reversed aiui. The stats are complex enough that they will take a lot of disentangling; I think in his quoting of a % rate only, Sunak is fudging the denominator.

    I'd say it's a normal Hail Mary Hula Hoop rather than Governing the country thoughtfully.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn0ry09d50wo

    https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/personal-independence-payment-statistics-to-july-2023/

    And yet the example they use is someone for whom suitable jobs exist and are available.

    I could highlight a whole set of people who have failed PIPs for utterly stupid reasons and yet this person seems well enough to have truely played the system to get a decent “retirement” in the North East
    It's a strange one. I know people who can only walk around the house who have been refused.

    But the solution is abuse is to fix the system for right-use, not to attack everyone.
    We are still waiting for the Attendance Allowance we applied for back in January. Our current grant runs out in May!
    TBH I'm surprised you are not being transferred to something else; I thought that AA had gone.

    Are you .. er .. "grandfathered" in?
    Great-grandfather, actually! No, Attendance Allowance still exists for pensioners.
  • tpfkartpfkar Posts: 1,565
    kjh said:

    eek said:

    Have we done this delightful anti- Lib Dem bar chart from a Tory party leaflet in Eastbourne

    Excellent piece by the Tories telling the electors of Eastbourne who the challengers are.
    It's The RanDom Capital Letters THat Add Nothing To The Story But Make It Harder To Read Sentences That's The REAL Crime Here!
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,919

    The main problem the SNP face is that there's no progress towards achieving independence. Any new leader will need to have a strategy for achieving independence that has more chance of success than asking Westminster for a second referendum based on whatever arbitrary pretext they can manufacture.

    It's the only way to reconcile people who otherwise disagree on so much. It was the promise that Sturgeon would assemble an irresistible level of support for Independence that kept a lid on the disagreements for so long.

    The pro-Treaty side in Ireland defended the concessions they'd made to Britain by saying that it at least gave Ireland the "freedom to achieve freedom."

    Something of that same spirit in relation to devolution would, I think, be in the SNP's best interests.

    Fundamentally, they need to make an agreement with the Westminster government about the conditions under which a new referendum would be held. There is no other way forward other than UDI.

    Labour might sign up to this if it gets it off the agenda for a decade or so. While it will infuriate the more belligerent Nats, what else can they do?
    If they can make a case for Independence that wins support of 60-70% of the Scottish population than a referendum becomes an inevitable formality, rather than a massive risk for a UK PM.
    I agree. However, they have so far failed to grasp this.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,390
    tpfkar said:

    kjh said:

    eek said:

    Have we done this delightful anti- Lib Dem bar chart from a Tory party leaflet in Eastbourne

    Excellent piece by the Tories telling the electors of Eastbourne who the challengers are.
    It's The RanDom Capital Letters THat Add Nothing To The Story But Make It Harder To Read Sentences That's The REAL Crime Here!
    Welcome back :)
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,121
    I see it is Hammer the Disabled Day on Sunak's news grid.

  • tpfkartpfkar Posts: 1,565
    viewcode said:

    tpfkar said:

    kjh said:

    eek said:

    Have we done this delightful anti- Lib Dem bar chart from a Tory party leaflet in Eastbourne

    Excellent piece by the Tories telling the electors of Eastbourne who the challengers are.
    It's The RanDom Capital Letters THat Add Nothing To The Story But Make It Harder To Read Sentences That's The REAL Crime Here!
    Welcome back :)
    Thank you. Often lurking, but rarely posting these days.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,586
    edited April 29
    eristdoof said:

    eek said:

    Have we done this delightful anti- Lib Dem bar chart from a Tory party leaflet in Eastbourne

    It's wierd that by "here" they mean "all of the UK", because the barchart is the UK wide seats for the last GE.
    There are so many directions you can take your thinking (all bad for the Tory candidate) that I don’t know what they were thinking when they published that bar chart. Unless the idea was to troll dodgy Lib Dem bar charts for the lols
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,568
    edited April 29

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Good riddance and fuck off to Humza “WHITE!!” Yousaf. An odious race baiter and a piece of dreck

    I thought as a self confessed racist apparently in fear of being cancelled that you would have some sympathy?
    Tut tut

    Also *points and sniggers at your party and cause*
    Since you hate your party and think your main 'cause', the UK, is a shithole, there's quite a lot of sniggering going on.
    Er, they’re really not “my party” not remotely. And absolutely not in the way the SNP is yours

    As for “shit-hole” hmm sometimes. Britain can be dreary and yet it can also be sublime. France is definitely more beautiful; British people are funnier; France has nicer towns; we have the English language. England also owns Scotland with its fabulous islands and mountains so yah boo sucks to France

  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,919
    Get the popcorn ready…
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,376

    I see it is Hammer the Disabled Day on Sunak's news grid.

    A multi-millionaire (with an even richer wife) hammering the the sick and disabled isn't a good look, is it?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,145
    They've just rearranged for a booking for thirteen - perhaps not the luckiest number in San Francesco's restaurant - and it's another load of Koreans ...
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,027
    Useless speaking. Voice out of sync on the BBC feed. Piss poor from the technical side.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Some SNP trivia:

    Since 22 September 1990, when Gordon Wilson stood down, the SNP has been led by Alex Salmond, someone who was Alex Salmond’s deputy, or someone who was Alex Salmond’s assistant.


    https://x.com/JournoStephen/status/1784899997898596733
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,899
    GIN1138 said:

    I see it is Hammer the Disabled Day on Sunak's news grid.

    A multi-millionaire (with an even richer wife) hammering the the sick and disabled isn't a good look, is it?
    if he pursues this one, I think it would go the same way as ticket offices, where they (aiui) set up the closure of ticket offices to look like an industry initiative, and organisation representing disabled people were excluded from any consultation in designing the proposals.

    So they received 750k public submissions, and backed down.

    This will help Rishi in his aim to dig his political to Australia.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,779
    So basically blaming the Greens for throwing their toys out of the pram....lols....never change useless.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,650

    The main problem the SNP face is that there's no progress towards achieving independence. Any new leader will need to have a strategy for achieving independence that has more chance of success than asking Westminster for a second referendum based on whatever arbitrary pretext they can manufacture.

    It's the only way to reconcile people who otherwise disagree on so much. It was the promise that Sturgeon would assemble an irresistible level of support for Independence that kept a lid on the disagreements for so long.

    The pro-Treaty side in Ireland defended the concessions they'd made to Britain by saying that it at least gave Ireland the "freedom to achieve freedom."

    Something of that same spirit in relation to devolution would, I think, be in the SNP's best interests.

    Fundamentally, they need to make an agreement with the Westminster government about the conditions under which a new referendum would be held. There is no other way forward other than UDI.

    Labour might sign up to this if it gets it off the agenda for a decade or so. While it will infuriate the more belligerent Nats, what else can they do?
    If they can make a case for Independence that wins support of 60-70% of the Scottish population than a referendum becomes an inevitable formality, rather than a massive risk for a UK PM.
    Similar dynamic for Rejoin. Perhaps the 2 things can be dovetailed given the conceptual and practical synergy.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,568
    edited April 29
    It’s like some awful political tragedy. Whatever your feelings about Humza Yousaf, you can’t forget that inside there is a human being with human feeli

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAAHAHAH
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,027
    He’s mentioned Gaza.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,919
    He didn’t just blame the culture war did he?!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,568

    He didn’t just blame the culture war did he?!

    He’s so toxic
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,779
    Still banging on about independence,,, it's so close lads...so close you can smell it
    hahahahahahahaha
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,779
    Any kids wanting to be First Minster for a day would do it better than Humza!
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,650
    edited April 29
    He sounds very down. As I always do, regardless of their politics or their competence, when a political leader who I judge to be driven primarily by public service rather than ego and powerlust crashes and burns I feel sad for the person.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,919
    Now onto an appeal for everyone to work together.

    The hypocrisy is staggering
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,832

    Some SNP trivia:

    Since 22 September 1990, when Gordon Wilson stood down, the SNP has been led by Alex Salmond, someone who was Alex Salmond’s deputy, or someone who was Alex Salmond’s assistant.


    https://x.com/JournoStephen/status/1784899997898596733

    Yes, they've had remarkable consistency and stability in leadership, haven't they? Not many parties where you can say 'since 1990' and then list three people. The Cons managed three leaders in two months!
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,650
    Who next then? No betfair market yet.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,899

    Humza Yousaf’s resignation speech bingo:

    1 Racism blamed.
    2 Not mentioning the Cass report.
    3 Not mentioning GRR/identity politics.
    4 Hot air about all he has achieved as FM with no specifics as to what.
    5 Dig at Alba.
    6 New leader must continue in progressive direction blah blah blah.


    https://x.com/CleverclogsNina/status/1784886852748558517

    1 - Nearly - culture wars.
    2 - Yes
    3 - Yes
    4 - Yes
    5 - Nearly - culture wars.
    6 - Yes

    Plus

    'Multiculturalism has succeeded'.
    SNP politician decrying populism, which imo defines them.
    Sindy.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,109
    From Reddit, on the subject of the MAGA pol who shot her dog. The one who Trump is thinking of picking… Seems she also shot 3 horses.

    Comment - “One neighed too loud, one got fat and one had a flatulence problem”

    Reply1 - “Jeez, I hope she hasn’t been keeping up with her potential running mate”

    Reply2 - “ Low key hoping that’s actually her end game…”

    Reply3 - “And the great news is, she will probably have legal immunity by then!”
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,614

    Now onto an appeal for everyone to work together.

    The hypocrisy is staggering

    Hard to listen to him but for Scotland a new beginning
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,568
    kinabalu said:

    Who next then? No betfair market yet.

    The guardian is claiming Forbes would be “overwhelming favourite” to win with the members. Is that true? She’s really quite right and the party is quite left

    But I do not understand the inner workings of the Nats. She would struggle to form a government without the greens and then she’d surely have to call an election which she would likely lose
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,027
    Starting to choke when he spoke about his wife. He clearly has a deep and caring relationship with her. There is always a person behind the politician.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,046
    WILL SOMEBODY PLEASE MAKE THIS WHOLE WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN TO SCOTLAND THING GO AWAY.

    No one cares ffs.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,099
    Yousless in office.

    Graceless in defeat.

    That speech was truly unedifying.

    Don't let the door hit you on the arse on the way oot...
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,099
    @JAHeale

    At 39, Humza Yousaf will become the youngest ever ex-First Minister in UK history
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,614
    If the SNP can find a sensible leader then they may yet recover but they need to avoid a Holyrood election
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,099
    @blairmcdougall

    If Swinney takes over it is an acknowledgment that the SNP is headed for significant losses. A year ago he said he’d been trying to step down front the frontline since 2016. A new leader would immediately face disaster, Swinney is expendable as he’s already resigned.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,121
    Be alert for bad news being sneaked out today by HMG as the Scottish play swallows the news.

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,997
    That’ll be that then. Bye bye Yousless.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,650
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Who next then? No betfair market yet.

    The guardian is claiming Forbes would be “overwhelming favourite” to win with the members. Is that true? She’s really quite right and the party is quite left

    But I do not understand the inner workings of the Nats. She would struggle to form a government without the greens and then she’d surely have to call an election which she would likely lose
    Perhaps somebody non-divisive who can quieten things down for a period while the party decides where it wants to go on independence strategy and general political positioning.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,949
    Jim Sillars on Sky News: Humza a follower, not a leader.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,468
    So, leadership contests for the 3rd and 5th largest parties in the Commons. Perhaps for the 1st too?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,909
    Scott_xP said:

    @blairmcdougall

    If Swinney takes over it is an acknowledgment that the SNP is headed for significant losses. A year ago he said he’d been trying to step down front the frontline since 2016. A new leader would immediately face disaster, Swinney is expendable as he’s already resigned.

    There are other explanations. Everyone can see that he's a temporary leader, and so it gives the SNP time to work out who should hear them for the long term, rather than making the decision in a hurry and an atmosphere of crisis.
This discussion has been closed.