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The woman who lost to a lettuce wants to comeback as Tory leader – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,691
edited April 28 in General
The woman who lost to a lettuce wants to comeback as Tory leader – politicalbetting.com

Liz Truss refuses to rule out running for Tory leader again in her #LBC interview with @IainDale tonight."I have unfinished business, and I think the Conservative party has unfinished business".Expect to see that on Labour leaflets come the general election…

Read the full story here

«13456

Comments

  • Options
    LennonLennon Posts: 1,735
    First. Unlike Truss
  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,561
    Second. Like Arsenal
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,780
    She has gone full on Trumpite saying Trump must win in November. Other Tories saying Trump must not win and some saying nothing to do with us guv.

    The Tories are really idiotic if they think November is a good time to hold an election here. The main attention will go to Trump. The Tories are deeply and irreconcilably divided on Trump, so they will inevitably look like the divided party they are. And the Tories need attention domestically to somehow catch up in the polling.

    As they are indeed idiotic expect a November election.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,334
    edited April 15
    Truss is in denial and seems to think leaving the Supreme Court, EHRC and other International bodies will see her rise to power again

    Indeed Farage and Braverman are off to a far right conference with Orban

    The one nation conservative party seems a long way off but apparently Sunak is seeking accreditation for their Conference this year at the end of September- early October, all pointing to a GE in November

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1779871215936532781?t=jU44qQWg8ZUuksJ-WmhVlw&s=19
  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,561
    Absolute template for how to do Nimbyism when you are the Guardian and your readership includes the moralising wealthy who want to keep out the wrong sort of both poor and rich and ensure that property in their patch is expensively scarce and feel good about it. Textbook stuff.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/apr/15/hampshire-village-little-london-fears-country-pads-new-homes-wealthy
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,020

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Trump Media stock down at $28 today.

    Pity the true believers who invested their nest eggs at £70.

    So the shares are only overvalued now by a factor of 100 or so?
    Depends how you look at it. What are the shares worth if Trump loses? Probably zero. What are the shares worth if Trump wins and behaves within or close to democratic norms? Probably zero.

    But what are the shares worth if Trump wins and goes full on autocrat? Quite a lot. What would Putin or Xis private media company be worth?

    Now plenty will say Trump successfully being a full on autocrat is a neglible chance, but I dont think it unreasonable to think it is a 10% or so chance that he succeeds in that, and in those circumstances it would have a good shot at becoming a valuable business. I don't think it is a ridiculous hedge against a Trump win and the economic shocks from that even though I would expect it to fairly quickly tend to zero over 90% of the time.
    Actually, I think the shares are worth more if Trump loses. If he wins, he'll probably go back on Twitter using the POTUS tag, and that means that Truth Social is essentially worthless.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,024
    Interesting story. The clever money has been on Truss for some time now, a great leader, mother and queen of the nation and indeed the world.

    Surely now it's not a case of if, but when. It's Truss's time. In fact, many people say this is The Age of Truss.

    TRUSS.
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,780
    ToryJim said:

    If only the Turnip Taliban had succeeded…

    Let us pray that the public will finish the job.
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,669

    She has gone full on Trumpite saying Trump must win in November. Other Tories saying Trump must not win and some saying nothing to do with us guv.

    The Tories are really idiotic if they think November is a good time to hold an election here. The main attention will go to Trump. The Tories are deeply and irreconcilably divided on Trump, so they will inevitably look like the divided party they are. And the Tories need attention domestically to somehow catch up in the polling.

    As they are indeed idiotic expect a November election.

    When push comes to shove the Conservative leadership will decide to be nice to Trump unless Biden looks like winning by a landslide. They will be too keen to get his reciprocal support and (more importantly) avoid his insults and get them trained on Labour.

    This will of course be a mistake because Trump just doesn't translate here. He's too exotic. But I think it'll happen. Trump will then say a few nice things about Sunak and the Tories, because a journalist somewhere will ask him, and he'll say some disparaging things about Starmer. That won't be a positive for Labour - an insult is an insult and tends to stick a bit no matter where it comes from - but it will also be a negative for the Tories.
  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,561

    She has gone full on Trumpite saying Trump must win in November. Other Tories saying Trump must not win and some saying nothing to do with us guv.

    The Tories are really idiotic if they think November is a good time to hold an election here. The main attention will go to Trump. The Tories are deeply and irreconcilably divided on Trump, so they will inevitably look like the divided party they are. And the Tories need attention domestically to somehow catch up in the polling.

    As they are indeed idiotic expect a November election.

    Yes but expect Sunak to steer well clear of 5th November and announce a late September election early, sometime in July or earlier if he has to, spiking various guns along the way.
  • Options
    Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,311
    edited April 15
    Someone should have a quiet word. But the thing to consider is how many on the British Right actually share her analysis - that hers was a wonder potion, which was egregiously smashed from her hand by a secret cabal of Tories, civil servants, financiers and assorted Lefties who refused to allow the introduction of economic growth? If this view is widespread then she might be in with a shout.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,332
    edited April 15
    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Trump Media stock down at $28 today.

    Pity the true believers who invested their nest eggs at £70.

    So the shares are only overvalued now by a factor of 100 or so?
    Depends how you look at it. What are the shares worth if Trump loses? Probably zero. What are the shares worth if Trump wins and behaves within or close to democratic norms? Probably zero.

    But what are the shares worth if Trump wins and goes full on autocrat? Quite a lot. What would Putin or Xis private media company be worth?

    Now plenty will say Trump successfully being a full on autocrat is a neglible chance, but I dont think it unreasonable to think it is a 10% or so chance that he succeeds in that, and in those circumstances it would have a good shot at becoming a valuable business. I don't think it is a ridiculous hedge against a Trump win and the economic shocks from that even though I would expect it to fairly quickly tend to zero over 90% of the time.
    Actually, I think the shares are worth more if Trump loses. If he wins, he'll probably go back on Twitter using the POTUS tag, and that means that Truth Social is essentially worthless.
    You can watch the share price falling in real time https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/DJT/

    Down to $27.15 now. Question must be how many MAGAs are willing to keep buying as the price falls. Down roughly `16% in a day.
  • Options
    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,513
    ToryJim said:

    If only the Turnip Taliban had succeeded…

    One of them is having another go;

    James Bagge looks like a Tory. The retired army officer, barrister and former high sheriff of Norfolk sounds like a Tory. He cheerfully confirms that he is a Tory and he drives a deeply Tory car, a beaten-up silver Volvo A70 with 160,000 miles on the clock and a quietly farting golden retriever recumbent on the back seat. His great-great-grandfather was a Tory MP. But at the next general election Bagge, 71, wants to destroy the Conservative Party.

    He is standing as an independent candidate in rural South West Norfolk, the seat where blink-and-you-missed-her ex-prime ministerial disaster zone Liz Truss commanded a majority of 26,195 votes in 2019...


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/why-norfolks-true-blue-tories-are-on-a-mission-to-unseat-liz-truss-crh8m8dhs

    As for Liz Truss and "unfinished business", haven't she and Kwasi K finished off enough businesses already? (He, at least, seems to have the sense and decency to keep his head down.)
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,024
    edited April 15
    Question for PBers.

    Who is the greatest leader in world history?

    Is it:

    a) MARY ELIZABETH TRUSS
    b) MARY ELIZABETH TRUSS
    c) MARY ELIZABETH TRUSS
    d) All of the above
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,949
    edited April 15
    Have to feel a bit sorry for Liz Truss; to fail so terribly in a high profile job like that must be excruciating. But she can’t really complain. It’s a joke that we are able to have PMs who haven’t won General Elections, new leaders should have to call one within six months of their appointment
  • Options
    ToryJimToryJim Posts: 3,422

    ToryJim said:

    If only the Turnip Taliban had succeeded…

    She’s a Lib Dem sleeper agent, it is the only explanation.
    They’re welcome to officially take her back…
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190
    isam said:

    Have to feel a bit sorry for Liz Truss; to fail so terribly in a high profile job like that must be excruciating. But she can’t really complain. It’s a joke that we are able to have PMs who haven’t won General Elections, new leaders should have to call one within six months of their appointment

    I disagree, we elects MPs not PMs. However, I would advise any politician that should they wish to deviate significantly from the status quo on becoming PM, then they need to call an election. To her credit, Theresa May recognized this. Sadly, she didn't achieve the outcome she needed to get her reforms through.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,352
    Truss re-elected as leader ain't gonna happen :lol:
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,053
    @DeltapollUK
    🚨New Voting Intention🚨
    Labour lead widens to twenty points in our latest results.
    Con 25% (-1)
    Lab 45% (+1)
    Lib Dem 9% (-)
    Reform 11% (-)
    SNP 3% (-)
    Green 5% (-1)
    Other 4% (+2)
    Fieldwork: 12th-15th April 2024
    Sample: 1,944 GB adults
    (Changes from 22nd-25th March 2024)
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,707
    All I can say is, where is that lettuce now ?
    Long since yesterday's compost.

    QED
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,949
    tlg86 said:

    isam said:

    Have to feel a bit sorry for Liz Truss; to fail so terribly in a high profile job like that must be excruciating. But she can’t really complain. It’s a joke that we are able to have PMs who haven’t won General Elections, new leaders should have to call one within six months of their appointment

    I disagree, we elects MPs not PMs. However, I would advise any politician that should they wish to deviate significantly from the status quo on becoming PM, then they need to call an election. To her credit, Theresa May recognized this. Sadly, she didn't achieve the outcome she needed to get her reforms through.
    In theory, but I would say most people don’t even know who their MP is - it is the leader and the manifesto they vote for really.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,914
    tlg86 said:

    isam said:

    Have to feel a bit sorry for Liz Truss; to fail so terribly in a high profile job like that must be excruciating. But she can’t really complain. It’s a joke that we are able to have PMs who haven’t won General Elections, new leaders should have to call one within six months of their appointment

    I disagree, we elects MPs not PMs. However, I would advise any politician that should they wish to deviate significantly from the status quo on becoming PM, then they need to call an election. To her credit, Theresa May recognized this. Sadly, she didn't achieve the outcome she needed to get her reforms through.
    That’s exactly what LT should have done, all the problems started from the sad and unfortunate event 48 hours after her investiture.
  • Options
    MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,449
    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Trump Media stock down at $28 today.

    Pity the true believers who invested their nest eggs at £70.

    So the shares are only overvalued now by a factor of 100 or so?
    Depends how you look at it. What are the shares worth if Trump loses? Probably zero. What are the shares worth if Trump wins and behaves within or close to democratic norms? Probably zero.

    But what are the shares worth if Trump wins and goes full on autocrat? Quite a lot. What would Putin or Xis private media company be worth?

    Now plenty will say Trump successfully being a full on autocrat is a neglible chance, but I dont think it unreasonable to think it is a 10% or so chance that he succeeds in that, and in those circumstances it would have a good shot at becoming a valuable business. I don't think it is a ridiculous hedge against a Trump win and the economic shocks from that even though I would expect it to fairly quickly tend to zero over 90% of the time.
    Actually, I think the shares are worth more if Trump loses. If he wins, he'll probably go back on Twitter using the POTUS tag, and that means that Truth Social is essentially worthless.
    Why wouldn't he exclusively use what he owns? Make the worlds media sign up if they want to hear about the invasion of Mexico.
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,347
    I'm not sure that Truss as Tory leader would be that great for Starmer. He benefits from a split opposition, and a Truss leadership would ensure the opposition was united around whatever right-wing alternative existed.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Trump Media stock down at $28 today.

    Pity the true believers who invested their nest eggs at £70.

    So the shares are only overvalued now by a factor of 100 or so?
    Depends how you look at it. What are the shares worth if Trump loses? Probably zero. What are the shares worth if Trump wins and behaves within or close to democratic norms? Probably zero.

    But what are the shares worth if Trump wins and goes full on autocrat? Quite a lot. What would Putin or Xis private media company be worth?

    Now plenty will say Trump successfully being a full on autocrat is a neglible chance, but I dont think it unreasonable to think it is a 10% or so chance that he succeeds in that, and in those circumstances it would have a good shot at becoming a valuable business. I don't think it is a ridiculous hedge against a Trump win and the economic shocks from that even though I would expect it to fairly quickly tend to zero over 90% of the time.
    Actually, I think the shares are worth more if Trump loses. If he wins, he'll probably go back on Twitter using the POTUS tag, and that means that Truth Social is essentially worthless.
    2 cents as against 1 cent? You have to include something for Trump's brand...

    Doing the perp walk does not seem to a great look for the investors though. Down 16% today.
  • Options
    ToryJimToryJim Posts: 3,422
    isam said:

    Have to feel a bit sorry for Liz Truss; to fail so terribly in a high profile job like that must be excruciating. But she can’t really complain. It’s a joke that we are able to have PMs who haven’t won General Elections, new leaders should have to call one within six months of their appointment

    I pity her for her utter lack of self awareness. Anyone that deluded about their own capacity deserves to fail spectacularly. That she ploughed her career into the ground in an epic manner and still is unacquainted with the limits of her ability is beyond comprehension. It also beggars belief that such a significant chunk of the Tory party looked at her and agreed with her delusional self appraisal.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,352
    THIS will be my ultimate vindication, bigger than lab leak or Covid, greater than the Necklace or AI: Liz Truss finally surprising on the upside
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,707
    edited April 15
    Pre jury selection rulings from the judge.

    The judge rehashes Trump's other arguments, including claims about his daughter.
    "To say that these claims are attenuated is an understatement," Merchan adds.

    https://twitter.com/KlasfeldReports/status/1779874108416655465

    Over the defense's objections:
    The judge ALLOWS prosecutors to show jurors evidence about Trump's arrangement with AMI's David Pecker that he would publish flattering stories about Trump and negative stories about his opponents before the 2016 election.

    https://twitter.com/KlasfeldReports/status/1779880491883098552

    Prosecutors note that the judge already allowed that in during a pre-trial ruling.
    Justice Merchan says that ruling stands — but for now, on a separate matter, he won't let prosecutors mention that Melania was pregnant at the time of the alleged affair with Daniels.

    https://twitter.com/KlasfeldReports/status/1779882369861771686
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    ToryJim said:

    isam said:

    Have to feel a bit sorry for Liz Truss; to fail so terribly in a high profile job like that must be excruciating. But she can’t really complain. It’s a joke that we are able to have PMs who haven’t won General Elections, new leaders should have to call one within six months of their appointment

    I pity her for her utter lack of self awareness. Anyone that deluded about their own capacity deserves to fail spectacularly. That she ploughed her career into the ground in an epic manner and still is unacquainted with the limits of her ability is beyond comprehension. It also beggars belief that such a significant chunk of the Tory party looked at her and agreed with her delusional self appraisal.
    "Fool me twice" applies to the Tory membership.

    I don't know a single party member who would vote for her again.
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,654
    ToryJim said:

    ToryJim said:

    If only the Turnip Taliban had succeeded…

    She’s a Lib Dem sleeper agent, it is the only explanation.
    They’re welcome to officially take her back…
    Her job is not finished yet.
  • Options
    SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,458

    Question for PBers.

    Who is the greatest leader in world history?

    Is it:

    a) MARY ELIZABETH TRUSS
    b) MARY ELIZABETH TRUSS
    c) MARY ELIZABETH TRUSS
    d) All of the above

    I don't know who they are (former Queens?) but I'm going for either Mary or Elizabeth. Not Truss.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,024

    Question for PBers.

    Who is the greatest leader in world history?

    Is it:

    a) MARY ELIZABETH TRUSS
    b) MARY ELIZABETH TRUSS
    c) MARY ELIZABETH TRUSS
    d) All of the above

    Thanks for your answers so far.

    I'll publish the results of the poll later.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,874
    "Who Would REALLY Win A Civil War?" Monsieur Z, YouTube, Apr 9, 2024

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcYYgcGjrP0

    AI Summary:
    The text discusses the fear of a second American Civil War due to the social divide between left and right. The upcoming election is seen as crucial, with Biden supporters fighting for democracy and Trump supporters fighting to save the country. The text also explores potential outcomes, including a focus on domestic issues and centralization of power. It highlights the weaknesses of the conservative faction, both physically and psychologically, in a civil war scenario. The text addresses the issue of insurgency and the challenges the right may face. It contrasts the right's civilian preparation with the left's strategic preparations. The text debunks false examples of asymmetrical warfare and provides a relevant example in Ukraine's war with Russia. Overall, it presents a detailed analysis of the risks and outcomes of a second Civil War, emphasizing the need for a realistic and strategic approach to conflict resolution.

    My Commentary
    Realistic assessment by a right-wing US YouTuber and historian of the odds of a Civil War and who would win. TLDR: it's a stupid idea and the faction that starts it will lose.

    https://ahrefs.com/writing-tools/summarizer

  • Options
    SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,458
    edited April 15
    Ed Davey has more gross* favourables than Truss. More people have both heard of and have a favourable opinion of Ed Davey than have a favourable opinion of Liz Truss!

    *net is a given, he's not very offensive - but gross?
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,156
    I'm just going to link to my closing post of 2023...

    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/4638643#Comment_4638643

    So you all know how to refer to me from now on.

    Yours,

    The Master
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,024

    ToryJim said:

    isam said:

    Have to feel a bit sorry for Liz Truss; to fail so terribly in a high profile job like that must be excruciating. But she can’t really complain. It’s a joke that we are able to have PMs who haven’t won General Elections, new leaders should have to call one within six months of their appointment

    I pity her for her utter lack of self awareness. Anyone that deluded about their own capacity deserves to fail spectacularly. That she ploughed her career into the ground in an epic manner and still is unacquainted with the limits of her ability is beyond comprehension. It also beggars belief that such a significant chunk of the Tory party looked at her and agreed with her delusional self appraisal.
    "Fool me twice" applies to the Tory membership.

    I don't know a single party member who would vote for her again.
    Perhaps she will stage a coup? You could call it a coronation.

    TRUSS.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,352
    ToryJim said:

    isam said:

    Have to feel a bit sorry for Liz Truss; to fail so terribly in a high profile job like that must be excruciating. But she can’t really complain. It’s a joke that we are able to have PMs who haven’t won General Elections, new leaders should have to call one within six months of their appointment

    I pity her for her utter lack of self awareness. Anyone that deluded about their own capacity deserves to fail spectacularly. That she ploughed her career into the ground in an epic manner and still is unacquainted with the limits of her ability is beyond comprehension. It also beggars belief that such a significant chunk of the Tory party looked at her and agreed with her delusional self appraisal.
    I think it's La Thatch. She's still haunting the Tories, and her ghost is particularly scary because it was the Tories wot toppled her - Britain's greatest peacetime prime minister since whenever. The Tories keep looking for a new Thatcher in the hope of exorcising the last - Theresa May, Liz Truss - but every time they come up fearfully short. Those are the two worst prime ministers I've known

    Now they will try again, with Badenoch or Braverman, and almost certainly fail again. Eventually they will break out of this psychic loop but by the time they do the party may be entirely defunct as an electoral force
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,352
    Scott_xP said:

    @DeltapollUK
    🚨New Voting Intention🚨
    Labour lead widens to twenty points in our latest results.
    Con 25% (-1)
    Lab 45% (+1)
    Lib Dem 9% (-)
    Reform 11% (-)
    SNP 3% (-)
    Green 5% (-1)
    Other 4% (+2)
    Fieldwork: 12th-15th April 2024
    Sample: 1,944 GB adults
    (Changes from 22nd-25th March 2024)

    Broken, sleazy Tories and Greens on the slide!
  • Options
    SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,458
    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    isam said:

    Have to feel a bit sorry for Liz Truss; to fail so terribly in a high profile job like that must be excruciating. But she can’t really complain. It’s a joke that we are able to have PMs who haven’t won General Elections, new leaders should have to call one within six months of their appointment

    I disagree, we elects MPs not PMs. However, I would advise any politician that should they wish to deviate significantly from the status quo on becoming PM, then they need to call an election. To her credit, Theresa May recognized this. Sadly, she didn't achieve the outcome she needed to get her reforms through.
    That’s exactly what LT should have done, all the problems started from the sad and unfortunate event 48 hours after her investiture.
    I'd suggest that the problems started 48 hours before the sad and unfortunate event 48 hours after her investiture.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,472
    algarkirk said:

    Absolute template for how to do Nimbyism when you are the Guardian and your readership includes the moralising wealthy who want to keep out the wrong sort of both poor and rich and ensure that property in their patch is expensively scarce and feel good about it. Textbook stuff.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/apr/15/hampshire-village-little-london-fears-country-pads-new-homes-wealthy

    In times gone by, your village becoming a town was an awesome thing.
  • Options
    CleitophonCleitophon Posts: 222

    Scott_xP said:

    @DeltapollUK
    🚨New Voting Intention🚨
    Labour lead widens to twenty points in our latest results.
    Con 25% (-1)
    Lab 45% (+1)
    Lib Dem 9% (-)
    Reform 11% (-)
    SNP 3% (-)
    Green 5% (-1)
    Other 4% (+2)
    Fieldwork: 12th-15th April 2024
    Sample: 1,944 GB adults
    (Changes from 22nd-25th March 2024)

    Broken, sleazy Tories and Greens on the slide!
    The politico poll of polls has a 22 point labour lead.... what a wonderful and fascinating age we live in.
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,156

    ToryJim said:

    isam said:

    Have to feel a bit sorry for Liz Truss; to fail so terribly in a high profile job like that must be excruciating. But she can’t really complain. It’s a joke that we are able to have PMs who haven’t won General Elections, new leaders should have to call one within six months of their appointment

    I pity her for her utter lack of self awareness. Anyone that deluded about their own capacity deserves to fail spectacularly. That she ploughed her career into the ground in an epic manner and still is unacquainted with the limits of her ability is beyond comprehension. It also beggars belief that such a significant chunk of the Tory party looked at her and agreed with her delusional self appraisal.
    "Fool me twice" applies to the Tory membership.

    I don't know a single party member who would vote for her again.
    Perhaps she will stage a coup? You could call it a coronation.

    TRUSS.
    Get your tanks off my lawn!
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    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,280
    edited April 15
    Afternoon everyone. When this happened a week ago, along came two polls to mess it up but this time I think it will stand:

    As of today 5 consecutive opinion polls have been published with Labour leads of 20%+ which is the first time this sequence has occurred since last September. The steady trend away from the Conservatives continues. For Rishi ‘things can only get worser’




  • Options
    SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,458
    Selebian said:

    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    isam said:

    Have to feel a bit sorry for Liz Truss; to fail so terribly in a high profile job like that must be excruciating. But she can’t really complain. It’s a joke that we are able to have PMs who haven’t won General Elections, new leaders should have to call one within six months of their appointment

    I disagree, we elects MPs not PMs. However, I would advise any politician that should they wish to deviate significantly from the status quo on becoming PM, then they need to call an election. To her credit, Theresa May recognized this. Sadly, she didn't achieve the outcome she needed to get her reforms through.
    That’s exactly what LT should have done, all the problems started from the sad and unfortunate event 48 hours after her investiture.
    I'd suggest that the problems started 48 hours before the sad and unfortunate event 48 hours after her investiture.
    Maybe I'm not enough of a royalist, but I had to think about what that sad and unfortunate event was - and it took a while! Was thinking the KamiKwasi budget wasn't that soon!
  • Options
    StonehengeStonehenge Posts: 80
    Leon said:

    ToryJim said:

    isam said:

    Have to feel a bit sorry for Liz Truss; to fail so terribly in a high profile job like that must be excruciating. But she can’t really complain. It’s a joke that we are able to have PMs who haven’t won General Elections, new leaders should have to call one within six months of their appointment

    I pity her for her utter lack of self awareness. Anyone that deluded about their own capacity deserves to fail spectacularly. That she ploughed her career into the ground in an epic manner and still is unacquainted with the limits of her ability is beyond comprehension. It also beggars belief that such a significant chunk of the Tory party looked at her and agreed with her delusional self appraisal.
    I think it's La Thatch. She's still haunting the Tories, and her ghost is particularly scary because it was the Tories wot toppled her - Britain's greatest peacetime prime minister since whenever. The Tories keep looking for a new Thatcher in the hope of exorcising the last - Theresa May, Liz Truss - but every time they come up fearfully short. Those are the two worst prime ministers I've known

    Now they will try again, with Badenoch or Braverman, and almost certainly fail again. Eventually they will break out of this psychic loop but by the time they do the party may be entirely defunct as an electoral force
    People forget when thatcher came to power north sea oil was coming onstream and house prices were low. So plenty of room to grow.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,053
    @DeltapollUK

    Net approval for @Keir_Starmer increases by seven points, while net approval for the Prime Minister @RishiSunak falls by one point.


  • Options
    numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 5,478
    edited April 15
    Liz Truss is largely a figure of pity and derision. She isn’t going to have a future in politics. Even the populist right will disown her (as much as she tries to hitch herself to their bandwagon) because she’ll be a drag on their fortunes.

    She will probably eke out a career giving her opinion on all and sundry; which will help convince people actually in power that they need to do the exact opposite.
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,669

    Scott_xP said:

    @DeltapollUK
    🚨New Voting Intention🚨
    Labour lead widens to twenty points in our latest results.
    Con 25% (-1)
    Lab 45% (+1)
    Lib Dem 9% (-)
    Reform 11% (-)
    SNP 3% (-)
    Green 5% (-1)
    Other 4% (+2)
    Fieldwork: 12th-15th April 2024
    Sample: 1,944 GB adults
    (Changes from 22nd-25th March 2024)

    Broken, sleazy Tories and Greens on the slide!
    The Reform surge is definitely at a hiatus at the moment. It's impressive how well they are hanging on though, with virtually no actually known policies, hardly any news coverage and a very low profile leader.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,332
    From the DA at the trial

    “Shortly, we will be seeking an order to show cause why Defendant should not be held in contempt” for violating the gag order."
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,614
    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Trump Media stock down at $28 today.

    Pity the true believers who invested their nest eggs at £70.

    So the shares are only overvalued now by a factor of 100 or so?
    Depends how you look at it. What are the shares worth if Trump loses? Probably zero. What are the shares worth if Trump wins and behaves within or close to democratic norms? Probably zero.

    But what are the shares worth if Trump wins and goes full on autocrat? Quite a lot. What would Putin or Xis private media company be worth?

    Now plenty will say Trump successfully being a full on autocrat is a neglible chance, but I dont think it unreasonable to think it is a 10% or so chance that he succeeds in that, and in those circumstances it would have a good shot at becoming a valuable business. I don't think it is a ridiculous hedge against a Trump win and the economic shocks from that even though I would expect it to fairly quickly tend to zero over 90% of the time.
    Actually, I think the shares are worth more if Trump loses. If he wins, he'll probably go back on Twitter using the POTUS tag, and that means that Truth Social is essentially worthless.
    You can watch the share price falling in real time https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/DJT/

    Down to $27.15 now. Question must be how many MAGAs are willing to keep buying as the price falls. Down roughly `16% in a day.
    REAL question is, how many foreign BAD actors are willing to keep on subsidizing Trump in anticipation of (potential) future returns?
  • Options
    numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 5,478
    edited April 15
    Leon said:

    ToryJim said:

    isam said:

    Have to feel a bit sorry for Liz Truss; to fail so terribly in a high profile job like that must be excruciating. But she can’t really complain. It’s a joke that we are able to have PMs who haven’t won General Elections, new leaders should have to call one within six months of their appointment

    I pity her for her utter lack of self awareness. Anyone that deluded about their own capacity deserves to fail spectacularly. That she ploughed her career into the ground in an epic manner and still is unacquainted with the limits of her ability is beyond comprehension. It also beggars belief that such a significant chunk of the Tory party looked at her and agreed with her delusional self appraisal.
    I think it's La Thatch. She's still haunting the Tories, and her ghost is particularly scary because it was the Tories wot toppled her - Britain's greatest peacetime prime minister since whenever. The Tories keep looking for a new Thatcher in the hope of exorcising the last - Theresa May, Liz Truss - but every time they come up fearfully short. Those are the two worst prime ministers I've known

    Now they will try again, with Badenoch or Braverman, and almost certainly fail again. Eventually they will break out of this psychic loop but by the time they do the party may be entirely defunct as an electoral force
    The problem the Thatcher pretenders have is that next to Thatcher they are political minnows.

    They pretend to have her conviction, her intellect, her strength of character - but they’re weak, unconvincing, superficial. Whatever your views of Thatcher, she is in a completely different league to the leading politicians of this generation.

    We could do with a politician of the calibre of Thatcher. But yes, the Thatcher mythos needs consigning to history now.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,332

    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Trump Media stock down at $28 today.

    Pity the true believers who invested their nest eggs at £70.

    So the shares are only overvalued now by a factor of 100 or so?
    Depends how you look at it. What are the shares worth if Trump loses? Probably zero. What are the shares worth if Trump wins and behaves within or close to democratic norms? Probably zero.

    But what are the shares worth if Trump wins and goes full on autocrat? Quite a lot. What would Putin or Xis private media company be worth?

    Now plenty will say Trump successfully being a full on autocrat is a neglible chance, but I dont think it unreasonable to think it is a 10% or so chance that he succeeds in that, and in those circumstances it would have a good shot at becoming a valuable business. I don't think it is a ridiculous hedge against a Trump win and the economic shocks from that even though I would expect it to fairly quickly tend to zero over 90% of the time.
    Actually, I think the shares are worth more if Trump loses. If he wins, he'll probably go back on Twitter using the POTUS tag, and that means that Truth Social is essentially worthless.
    You can watch the share price falling in real time https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/DJT/

    Down to $27.15 now. Question must be how many MAGAs are willing to keep buying as the price falls. Down roughly `16% in a day.
    REAL question is, how many foreign BAD actors are willing to keep on subsidizing Trump in anticipation of (potential) future returns?
    And whether Trump has managed to create the largest hole in the Election Finance rules in history with virtually no accountability for who is providing the money that indirectly funds him.
  • Options
    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,513
    Leon said:

    ToryJim said:

    isam said:

    Have to feel a bit sorry for Liz Truss; to fail so terribly in a high profile job like that must be excruciating. But she can’t really complain. It’s a joke that we are able to have PMs who haven’t won General Elections, new leaders should have to call one within six months of their appointment

    I pity her for her utter lack of self awareness. Anyone that deluded about their own capacity deserves to fail spectacularly. That she ploughed her career into the ground in an epic manner and still is unacquainted with the limits of her ability is beyond comprehension. It also beggars belief that such a significant chunk of the Tory party looked at her and agreed with her delusional self appraisal.
    I think it's La Thatch. She's still haunting the Tories, and her ghost is particularly scary because it was the Tories wot toppled her - Britain's greatest peacetime prime minister since whenever. The Tories keep looking for a new Thatcher in the hope of exorcising the last - Theresa May, Liz Truss - but every time they come up fearfully short. Those are the two worst prime ministers I've known

    Now they will try again, with Badenoch or Braverman, and almost certainly fail again. Eventually they will break out of this psychic loop but by the time they do the party may be entirely defunct as an electoral force
    The psychology is strange and fascinating. Partly the worship of an idealised Thatch- the real thing was quite a bit subtler and more interesting, whereas the current generation of Conservatives are only really interested in the cartoon version. And partly the guilt in toppling her.

    And yet... since then, the Conservative leadership has been really unstable. The lesson the party took from 1990 was to dump the leader when things are going badly. Even when they aren't actively having a leadership election, Conservative leaders are clearly paranoid that there's about to be one.
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,669
    viewcode said:

    "Who Would REALLY Win A Civil War?" Monsieur Z, YouTube, Apr 9, 2024

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcYYgcGjrP0

    AI Summary:
    The text discusses the fear of a second American Civil War due to the social divide between left and right. The upcoming election is seen as crucial, with Biden supporters fighting for democracy and Trump supporters fighting to save the country. The text also explores potential outcomes, including a focus on domestic issues and centralization of power. It highlights the weaknesses of the conservative faction, both physically and psychologically, in a civil war scenario. The text addresses the issue of insurgency and the challenges the right may face. It contrasts the right's civilian preparation with the left's strategic preparations. The text debunks false examples of asymmetrical warfare and provides a relevant example in Ukraine's war with Russia. Overall, it presents a detailed analysis of the risks and outcomes of a second Civil War, emphasizing the need for a realistic and strategic approach to conflict resolution.

    My Commentary
    Realistic assessment by a right-wing US YouTuber and historian of the odds of a Civil War and who would win. TLDR: it's a stupid idea and the faction that starts it will lose.

    https://ahrefs.com/writing-tools/summarizer

    They are looking at the wrong precedents. The second US civil war will not be an asymmetrical guerrilla war. Nor will it be a Russia:Ukraine style near-peer conflagration. It will be - indeed maybe already is - a cold war.

    The US states are already lining up into broadly partisan parallel worlds separated by ideology, religion and way of life. Lawmakers are diverging from any kind of federal consensus on how to run things. Although voters are putting the brakes on some of this, notably on abortion rights, it continues to happen. In a cold war you get proxy battles in border states. In this US cold civil war the Vietnams or Afghanistans are taking place in courtrooms or on the Mexican border or outside abortion clinics.

    So the second civil war is here, and it's a cold war.
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,780
    DavidL said:

    From the DA at the trial

    “Shortly, we will be seeking an order to show cause why Defendant should not be held in contempt” for violating the gag order."

    Is it because he is a billionaire ex President?
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,048

    Leon said:

    ToryJim said:

    isam said:

    Have to feel a bit sorry for Liz Truss; to fail so terribly in a high profile job like that must be excruciating. But she can’t really complain. It’s a joke that we are able to have PMs who haven’t won General Elections, new leaders should have to call one within six months of their appointment

    I pity her for her utter lack of self awareness. Anyone that deluded about their own capacity deserves to fail spectacularly. That she ploughed her career into the ground in an epic manner and still is unacquainted with the limits of her ability is beyond comprehension. It also beggars belief that such a significant chunk of the Tory party looked at her and agreed with her delusional self appraisal.
    I think it's La Thatch. She's still haunting the Tories, and her ghost is particularly scary because it was the Tories wot toppled her - Britain's greatest peacetime prime minister since whenever. The Tories keep looking for a new Thatcher in the hope of exorcising the last - Theresa May, Liz Truss - but every time they come up fearfully short. Those are the two worst prime ministers I've known

    Now they will try again, with Badenoch or Braverman, and almost certainly fail again. Eventually they will break out of this psychic loop but by the time they do the party may be entirely defunct as an electoral force
    The problem the Thatcher pretenders have is that next to Thatcher they are political minnows.

    They pretend to have her conviction, her intellect, her strength of character - but they’re weak, unconvincing, superficial. Whatever your views of Thatcher, she is in a completely different league to the leading politicians of this generation.

    We could do with a politician of the calibre of Thatcher. But yes, the Thatcher mythos needs consigning to history now.
    If you go back to 1978, 1979 or 1980, how many people would have been applauding Thatcher's conviction, intellect or strength of character? These things often only show when tested to extremes.

    Basically: in my view, you cannot fully see if someone would be a great PM until they get the job. I was expecting Johnson to be a terrible PM, and I was right, unusually for the right reasons. But he could have changed and surprised me.

    Likewise, I'm expecting Starmer to be dull but competent. I hope that's the case; but we won't know if he surprises on the downside or upside until he is tested (although it would be hard for him to go further on the downside than Sunak...)
  • Options
    Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 13,790
    Leon said:

    ToryJim said:

    isam said:

    Have to feel a bit sorry for Liz Truss; to fail so terribly in a high profile job like that must be excruciating. But she can’t really complain. It’s a joke that we are able to have PMs who haven’t won General Elections, new leaders should have to call one within six months of their appointment

    I pity her for her utter lack of self awareness. Anyone that deluded about their own capacity deserves to fail spectacularly. That she ploughed her career into the ground in an epic manner and still is unacquainted with the limits of her ability is beyond comprehension. It also beggars belief that such a significant chunk of the Tory party looked at her and agreed with her delusional self appraisal.
    I think it's La Thatch. She's still haunting the Tories, and her ghost is particularly scary because it was the Tories wot toppled her - Britain's greatest peacetime prime minister since whenever. The Tories keep looking for a new Thatcher in the hope of exorcising the last - Theresa May, Liz Truss - but every time they come up fearfully short. Those are the two worst prime ministers I've known

    Now they will try again, with Badenoch or Braverman, and almost certainly fail again. Eventually they will break out of this psychic loop but by the time they do the party may be entirely defunct as an electoral force
    Nah, even TMay wasn't that awful, except when she started to pretend to be a brainless Brexit adherent.

    Liz Truss was put on this planet to attempt to prove that someone could actually be a more ridiculous PM than Boris Johnson. Even in this she failed.

    Boris Johnson's position as most preposterous premier is, and always will be, unassailable.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,332

    DavidL said:

    From the DA at the trial

    “Shortly, we will be seeking an order to show cause why Defendant should not be held in contempt” for violating the gag order."

    Is it because he is a billionaire ex President?
    No, I think it is because he can't keep his mouth shut or be kept away from his keyboard. Apparently, the argument is coming up now. May take a while.
  • Options
    PJHPJH Posts: 487
    TimS said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @DeltapollUK
    🚨New Voting Intention🚨
    Labour lead widens to twenty points in our latest results.
    Con 25% (-1)
    Lab 45% (+1)
    Lib Dem 9% (-)
    Reform 11% (-)
    SNP 3% (-)
    Green 5% (-1)
    Other 4% (+2)
    Fieldwork: 12th-15th April 2024
    Sample: 1,944 GB adults
    (Changes from 22nd-25th March 2024)

    Broken, sleazy Tories and Greens on the slide!
    The Reform surge is definitely at a hiatus at the moment. It's impressive how well they are hanging on though, with virtually no actually known policies, hardly any news coverage and a very low profile leader.
    I always forget about them and I'm a politics nerd. Although not today because I just received my GLA leaflet from them. 2nd so far after the Tories.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,874
    TimS said:

    viewcode said:

    "Who Would REALLY Win A Civil War?" Monsieur Z, YouTube, Apr 9, 2024

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcYYgcGjrP0

    AI Summary:
    The text discusses the fear of a second American Civil War due to the social divide between left and right. The upcoming election is seen as crucial, with Biden supporters fighting for democracy and Trump supporters fighting to save the country. The text also explores potential outcomes, including a focus on domestic issues and centralization of power. It highlights the weaknesses of the conservative faction, both physically and psychologically, in a civil war scenario. The text addresses the issue of insurgency and the challenges the right may face. It contrasts the right's civilian preparation with the left's strategic preparations. The text debunks false examples of asymmetrical warfare and provides a relevant example in Ukraine's war with Russia. Overall, it presents a detailed analysis of the risks and outcomes of a second Civil War, emphasizing the need for a realistic and strategic approach to conflict resolution.

    My Commentary
    Realistic assessment by a right-wing US YouTuber and historian of the odds of a Civil War and who would win. TLDR: it's a stupid idea and the faction that starts it will lose.

    https://ahrefs.com/writing-tools/summarizer

    They are looking at the wrong precedents. The second US civil war will not be an asymmetrical guerrilla war. Nor will it be a Russia:Ukraine style near-peer conflagration. It will be - indeed maybe already is - a cold war.

    The US states are already lining up into broadly partisan parallel worlds separated by ideology, religion and way of life. Lawmakers are diverging from any kind of federal consensus on how to run things. Although voters are putting the brakes on some of this, notably on abortion rights, it continues to happen. In a cold war you get proxy battles in border states. In this US cold civil war the Vietnams or Afghanistans are taking place in courtrooms or on the Mexican border or outside abortion clinics.

    So the second civil war is here, and it's a cold war.
    Slow motion divorce
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,707
    "A complaint has been made" says the Tory MP who made the complaint.

    Which he can't explain.

    Jo Coburn: What crime do you think Angela Rayner committed?

    James Daly(Tory MP): We should allow the police investigation to proceed

    JC: But what do you think she's done?

    JD: We should allow them to carry out that investigation

    JC: What's the offense?..

    https://twitter.com/Haggis_UK/status/1779836620297953392
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,780

    Leon said:

    ToryJim said:

    isam said:

    Have to feel a bit sorry for Liz Truss; to fail so terribly in a high profile job like that must be excruciating. But she can’t really complain. It’s a joke that we are able to have PMs who haven’t won General Elections, new leaders should have to call one within six months of their appointment

    I pity her for her utter lack of self awareness. Anyone that deluded about their own capacity deserves to fail spectacularly. That she ploughed her career into the ground in an epic manner and still is unacquainted with the limits of her ability is beyond comprehension. It also beggars belief that such a significant chunk of the Tory party looked at her and agreed with her delusional self appraisal.
    I think it's La Thatch. She's still haunting the Tories, and her ghost is particularly scary because it was the Tories wot toppled her - Britain's greatest peacetime prime minister since whenever. The Tories keep looking for a new Thatcher in the hope of exorcising the last - Theresa May, Liz Truss - but every time they come up fearfully short. Those are the two worst prime ministers I've known

    Now they will try again, with Badenoch or Braverman, and almost certainly fail again. Eventually they will break out of this psychic loop but by the time they do the party may be entirely defunct as an electoral force
    The problem the Thatcher pretenders have is that next to Thatcher they are political minnows.

    They pretend to have her conviction, her intellect, her strength of character - but they’re weak, unconvincing, superficial. Whatever your views of Thatcher, she is in a completely different league to the leading politicians of this generation.

    We could do with a politician of the calibre of Thatcher. But yes, the Thatcher mythos needs consigning to history now.
    If you go back to 1978, 1979 or 1980, how many people would have been applauding Thatcher's conviction, intellect or strength of character? These things often only show when tested to extremes.

    Basically: in my view, you cannot fully see if someone would be a great PM until they get the job. I was expecting Johnson to be a terrible PM, and I was right, unusually for the right reasons. But he could have changed and surprised me.

    Likewise, I'm expecting Starmer to be dull but competent. I hope that's the case; but we won't know if he surprises on the downside or upside until he is tested (although it would be hard for him to go further on the downside than Sunak...)
    You can't tell that reliably but you can you tell reasonably. Pretty sure Ken Clarke, Rory Stewart, Paddy Ashdown, Alan Johnson, Michael Heseltine would be better than Michael Fabricant, Richard Burgon, Dawn Butler or Jacob Rees-Mogg for example.

    Sunak is the one I have been most wrong on, thought he could be the new John Major, even share a love of cricket. Others broadly been as expected.
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,347
    Heathener said:

    Afternoon everyone. When this happened a week ago, along came two polls to mess it up but this time I think it will stand:

    As of today 5 consecutive opinion polls have been published with Labour leads of 20%+ which is the first time this sequence has occurred since last September. The steady trend away from the Conservatives continues. For Rishi ‘things can only get worser’




    This is silly. There's no huge change in the lead, and as soon as one of the pollsters who report a smaller lead than the other firms releases a new poll then your pattern will be broken.

    If Opinium, or Savanta, release a poll with a >20% lead then that would be a change and would indicate a new pattern.
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,780
    Nigelb said:

    "A complaint has been made" says the Tory MP who made the complaint.

    Which he can't explain.

    Jo Coburn: What crime do you think Angela Rayner committed?

    James Daly(Tory MP): We should allow the police investigation to proceed

    JC: But what do you think she's done?

    JD: We should allow them to carry out that investigation

    JC: What's the offense?..

    https://twitter.com/Haggis_UK/status/1779836620297953392

    Wasting police time.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,707
    This is very hopeful news for anyone with Parkinson's.

    There's never been a disease-modifying drug for Parkinson's disease to slow its progression. Now there may be two emerging.
    —GLP-1
    https://nejm.org/doi/abs/10.1056/NEJMoa2312323
    @NEJM

    —anti-synuclein antibody
    https://nature.com/articles/s41591-024-02886-y
    @NatureMed

    https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1779898447224844527
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,020

    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Trump Media stock down at $28 today.

    Pity the true believers who invested their nest eggs at £70.

    So the shares are only overvalued now by a factor of 100 or so?
    Depends how you look at it. What are the shares worth if Trump loses? Probably zero. What are the shares worth if Trump wins and behaves within or close to democratic norms? Probably zero.

    But what are the shares worth if Trump wins and goes full on autocrat? Quite a lot. What would Putin or Xis private media company be worth?

    Now plenty will say Trump successfully being a full on autocrat is a neglible chance, but I dont think it unreasonable to think it is a 10% or so chance that he succeeds in that, and in those circumstances it would have a good shot at becoming a valuable business. I don't think it is a ridiculous hedge against a Trump win and the economic shocks from that even though I would expect it to fairly quickly tend to zero over 90% of the time.
    Actually, I think the shares are worth more if Trump loses. If he wins, he'll probably go back on Twitter using the POTUS tag, and that means that Truth Social is essentially worthless.
    Why wouldn't he exclusively use what he owns? Make the worlds media sign up if they want to hear about the invasion of Mexico.
    Ah, but that's a little bit of a problem. You aren't supposed to profit from the Presidency. And there is a company with standing to bring a case: Twitter.

    I suspect this is the kind of case where the Supreme Court (with the exception of Thomas and possibly Alito) will be keen to demonstrate their independence.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,874

    Leon said:

    ToryJim said:

    isam said:

    Have to feel a bit sorry for Liz Truss; to fail so terribly in a high profile job like that must be excruciating. But she can’t really complain. It’s a joke that we are able to have PMs who haven’t won General Elections, new leaders should have to call one within six months of their appointment

    I pity her for her utter lack of self awareness. Anyone that deluded about their own capacity deserves to fail spectacularly. That she ploughed her career into the ground in an epic manner and still is unacquainted with the limits of her ability is beyond comprehension. It also beggars belief that such a significant chunk of the Tory party looked at her and agreed with her delusional self appraisal.
    I think it's La Thatch. She's still haunting the Tories, and her ghost is particularly scary because it was the Tories wot toppled her - Britain's greatest peacetime prime minister since whenever. The Tories keep looking for a new Thatcher in the hope of exorcising the last - Theresa May, Liz Truss - but every time they come up fearfully short. Those are the two worst prime ministers I've known

    Now they will try again, with Badenoch or Braverman, and almost certainly fail again. Eventually they will break out of this psychic loop but by the time they do the party may be entirely defunct as an electoral force
    Nah, even TMay wasn't that awful, except when she started to pretend to be a brainless Brexit adherent.

    Liz Truss was put on this planet to attempt to prove that someone could actually be a more ridiculous PM than Boris Johnson. Even in this she failed.

    Boris Johnson's position as most preposterous premier is, and always will be, unassailable.
    With regards to Margaret Thatcher, every church ends up killing its god. By reducing a complex woman with a set of principles and knowledge of statecraft to a set of actions in the 1980s, they turned her into an icon to be paid lip-service to and then ignored.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,024
    ....
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,780
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    From the DA at the trial

    “Shortly, we will be seeking an order to show cause why Defendant should not be held in contempt” for violating the gag order."

    Is it because he is a billionaire ex President?
    No, I think it is because he can't keep his mouth shut or be kept away from his keyboard. Apparently, the argument is coming up now. May take a while.
    I was answering the slightly different question of why he won't be held in contempt (or at least suffer the standard consequences for repeared severe offences). Irrelevant fines I suspect that change his total punishment across his caseload by much less than 1% rather than being locked up as anyone "normal" would.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,024

    Leon said:

    ToryJim said:

    isam said:

    Have to feel a bit sorry for Liz Truss; to fail so terribly in a high profile job like that must be excruciating. But she can’t really complain. It’s a joke that we are able to have PMs who haven’t won General Elections, new leaders should have to call one within six months of their appointment

    I pity her for her utter lack of self awareness. Anyone that deluded about their own capacity deserves to fail spectacularly. That she ploughed her career into the ground in an epic manner and still is unacquainted with the limits of her ability is beyond comprehension. It also beggars belief that such a significant chunk of the Tory party looked at her and agreed with her delusional self appraisal.
    I think it's La Thatch. She's still haunting the Tories, and her ghost is particularly scary because it was the Tories wot toppled her - Britain's greatest peacetime prime minister since whenever. The Tories keep looking for a new Thatcher in the hope of exorcising the last - Theresa May, Liz Truss - but every time they come up fearfully short. Those are the two worst prime ministers I've known

    Now they will try again, with Badenoch or Braverman, and almost certainly fail again. Eventually they will break out of this psychic loop but by the time they do the party may be entirely defunct as an electoral force
    The problem the Truss pretenders have is that next to Truss they are political minnows.

    They pretend to have her conviction, her intellect, her strength of character - but they’re weak, unconvincing, superficial. Whatever your views of Truss, she is in a completely different league to the leading politicians of this generation.

    We could do with a politician of the calibre of Truss. But yes, the Truss mythos needs consigning to history now.
    Interesting thoughts, astute many would say.

    TRUSS.
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    Truss certainly seems to want to add to the nations gaiety.

    But, I can only agree with all those who’ve already commented. Letting Truss back to the frontline would be an act of electoral suicide for the Conservative Party. My mates who don’t talk politics much always bring her up when they grumble about their mortgage costs.

    The worst thing is I almost want to defend Truss - rates couldn’t stay at near zero and inflation hit eleven. But by god she sped up the process of rate increases when she and Kwatang bypassed the OBR and the markets with their crazy budget. And “you broke it you own” rules apply I guess.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,707
    edited April 15
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Trump Media stock down at $28 today.

    Pity the true believers who invested their nest eggs at £70.

    So the shares are only overvalued now by a factor of 100 or so?
    Depends how you look at it. What are the shares worth if Trump loses? Probably zero. What are the shares worth if Trump wins and behaves within or close to democratic norms? Probably zero.

    But what are the shares worth if Trump wins and goes full on autocrat? Quite a lot. What would Putin or Xis private media company be worth?

    Now plenty will say Trump successfully being a full on autocrat is a neglible chance, but I dont think it unreasonable to think it is a 10% or so chance that he succeeds in that, and in those circumstances it would have a good shot at becoming a valuable business. I don't think it is a ridiculous hedge against a Trump win and the economic shocks from that even though I would expect it to fairly quickly tend to zero over 90% of the time.
    Actually, I think the shares are worth more if Trump loses. If he wins, he'll probably go back on Twitter using the POTUS tag, and that means that Truth Social is essentially worthless.
    Why wouldn't he exclusively use what he owns? Make the worlds media sign up if they want to hear about the invasion of Mexico.
    Ah, but that's a little bit of a problem. You aren't supposed to profit from the Presidency. And there is a company with standing to bring a case: Twitter.

    I suspect this is the kind of case where the Supreme Court (with the exception of Thomas and possibly Alito) will be keen to demonstrate their independence.
    LOL

    I doubt it.

    Shares in blind trust managed by Don Jnr... 1st Amendment rights ... etc.
    5/4 ruling in favour of the President.

    Elon would probably suck it up, anyway, in exchange for his not crippling the EV industry.
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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,265

    Leon said:

    ToryJim said:

    isam said:

    Have to feel a bit sorry for Liz Truss; to fail so terribly in a high profile job like that must be excruciating. But she can’t really complain. It’s a joke that we are able to have PMs who haven’t won General Elections, new leaders should have to call one within six months of their appointment

    I pity her for her utter lack of self awareness. Anyone that deluded about their own capacity deserves to fail spectacularly. That she ploughed her career into the ground in an epic manner and still is unacquainted with the limits of her ability is beyond comprehension. It also beggars belief that such a significant chunk of the Tory party looked at her and agreed with her delusional self appraisal.
    I think it's La Thatch. She's still haunting the Tories, and her ghost is particularly scary because it was the Tories wot toppled her - Britain's greatest peacetime prime minister since whenever. The Tories keep looking for a new Thatcher in the hope of exorcising the last - Theresa May, Liz Truss - but every time they come up fearfully short. Those are the two worst prime ministers I've known

    Now they will try again, with Badenoch or Braverman, and almost certainly fail again. Eventually they will break out of this psychic loop but by the time they do the party may be entirely defunct as an electoral force
    Nah, even TMay wasn't that awful, except when she started to pretend to be a brainless Brexit adherent.

    Liz Truss was put on this planet to attempt to prove that someone could actually be a more ridiculous PM than Boris Johnson. Even in this she failed.

    Boris Johnson's position as most preposterous premier is, and always will be, unassailable.
    Her comeback tour as Trump's supporting artist is putting pay to that assertion. Although I am sure Johnson can pull a rabbit out the hat to snatch back his most preposterous premier crown.
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,828
    A loopy Liz comeback as LOTO really would take the Tories into the wilderness for a decade...

    She's be William Hague and IDS combined :D
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    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,347

    I remain a member of the Conservative Party and I live in Truss's constituency. I've voted for her at general elections, campaigned for her, and voted for her as party leader. NONE of these things will ever happen again even if it means voting Labour. Despite the seat being one of the safest Tory seats in the country, I wouldn't underestimate the level of revulsion constituents have for her. I would not be remotely surprised to see the swing against her break all records.

    Does anyone have the declaration times for Truss' constituency in past elections?
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,481

    She has gone full on Trumpite saying Trump must win in November. Other Tories saying Trump must not win and some saying nothing to do with us guv.

    The Tories are really idiotic if they think November is a good time to hold an election here. The main attention will go to Trump. The Tories are deeply and irreconcilably divided on Trump, so they will inevitably look like the divided party they are. And the Tories need attention domestically to somehow catch up in the polling.

    As they are indeed idiotic expect a November election.

    Trump is the Republican candidate, and the Republicans are the right of centre party. Furthermore, it is true that Biden has been one of the least supportive leaders to the UK, and that Trump has always been well-disposed toward the UK and has friends, business interests, and familial ties here. It seems a mark of polite society that we should all clutch our pearls at the very thought of him gaining the White House again - well that can fuck off.
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,334

    I remain a member of the Conservative Party and I live in Truss's constituency. I've voted for her at general elections, campaigned for her, and voted for her as party leader. NONE of these things will ever happen again even if it means voting Labour. Despite the seat being one of the safest Tory seats in the country, I wouldn't underestimate the level of revulsion constituents have for her. I would not be remotely surprised to see the swing against her break all records.

    Let's hope so
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    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,780

    She has gone full on Trumpite saying Trump must win in November. Other Tories saying Trump must not win and some saying nothing to do with us guv.

    The Tories are really idiotic if they think November is a good time to hold an election here. The main attention will go to Trump. The Tories are deeply and irreconcilably divided on Trump, so they will inevitably look like the divided party they are. And the Tories need attention domestically to somehow catch up in the polling.

    As they are indeed idiotic expect a November election.

    Trump is the Republican candidate, and the Republicans are the right of centre party. Furthermore, it is true that Biden has been one of the least supportive leaders to the UK, and that Trump has always been well-disposed toward the UK and has friends, business interests, and familial ties here. It seems a mark of polite society that we should all clutch our pearls at the very thought of him gaining the White House again - well that can fuck off.
    Not a question of politeness, more an indication of either a disdain for democratic norms or a lack of intelligence, or both, they often go together.
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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,265

    Leon said:

    ToryJim said:

    isam said:

    Have to feel a bit sorry for Liz Truss; to fail so terribly in a high profile job like that must be excruciating. But she can’t really complain. It’s a joke that we are able to have PMs who haven’t won General Elections, new leaders should have to call one within six months of their appointment

    I pity her for her utter lack of self awareness. Anyone that deluded about their own capacity deserves to fail spectacularly. That she ploughed her career into the ground in an epic manner and still is unacquainted with the limits of her ability is beyond comprehension. It also beggars belief that such a significant chunk of the Tory party looked at her and agreed with her delusional self appraisal.
    I think it's La Thatch. She's still haunting the Tories, and her ghost is particularly scary because it was the Tories wot toppled her - Britain's greatest peacetime prime minister since whenever. The Tories keep looking for a new Thatcher in the hope of exorcising the last - Theresa May, Liz Truss - but every time they come up fearfully short. Those are the two worst prime ministers I've known

    Now they will try again, with Badenoch or Braverman, and almost certainly fail again. Eventually they will break out of this psychic loop but by the time they do the party may be entirely defunct as an electoral force
    People forget when thatcher came to power north sea oil was coming onstream and house prices were low. So plenty of room to grow.
    For goodness sake! Proper nouns require capital letters.
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    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,280

    Heathener said:

    Afternoon everyone. When this happened a week ago, along came two polls to mess it up but this time I think it will stand:

    As of today 5 consecutive opinion polls have been published with Labour leads of 20%+ which is the first time this sequence has occurred since last September. The steady trend away from the Conservatives continues. For Rishi ‘things can only get worser’




    This is silly. There's no huge change in the lead, and as soon as one of the pollsters who report a smaller lead than the other firms releases a new poll then your pattern will be broken.

    If Opinium, or Savanta, release a poll with a >20% lead then that would be a change and would indicate a new pattern.
    I made no great claims about it. I merely noted that it’s the first time since last September that 5 consecutive polls have given Labour a 20%+ lead.

    So I don’t think it is “silly”. Sometimes when the pattern begins to form it takes a while for everyone to see it. Put more empirically, the Conservatives dropped another 2% in March. https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/prediction_main.html
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    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,280
    GIN1138 said:

    A loopy Liz comeback as LOTO really would take the Tories into the wilderness for a decade...

    She's be William Hague and IDS combined :D

    I think it’s almost a given that they will be in the political wilderness for a decade. I’m increasingly thinking it will be 20 years before anyone in this country dares trust them again with the keys to No. 10.

    People will look back on these as the Horror Years. Short of WWIII, which may yet happen, almost everything that could go wrong, did.
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,334
    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    Afternoon everyone. When this happened a week ago, along came two polls to mess it up but this time I think it will stand:

    As of today 5 consecutive opinion polls have been published with Labour leads of 20%+ which is the first time this sequence has occurred since last September. The steady trend away from the Conservatives continues. For Rishi ‘things can only get worser’




    This is silly. There's no huge change in the lead, and as soon as one of the pollsters who report a smaller lead than the other firms releases a new poll then your pattern will be broken.

    If Opinium, or Savanta, release a poll with a >20% lead then that would be a change and would indicate a new pattern.
    I made no great claims about it. I merely noted that it’s the first time since last September that 5 consecutive polls have given Labour a 20%+ lead.

    So I don’t think it is “silly”. Sometimes when the pattern begins to form it takes a while for everyone to see it. Put more empirically, the Conservatives dropped another 2% in March. https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/prediction_main.html
    I would just comment that the polls seem remarkably steady with little overall change and Labour about 20% ahead

    I see no reason for them to change before the election is called in the autumn
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    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,347
    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    Afternoon everyone. When this happened a week ago, along came two polls to mess it up but this time I think it will stand:

    As of today 5 consecutive opinion polls have been published with Labour leads of 20%+ which is the first time this sequence has occurred since last September. The steady trend away from the Conservatives continues. For Rishi ‘things can only get worser’




    This is silly. There's no huge change in the lead, and as soon as one of the pollsters who report a smaller lead than the other firms releases a new poll then your pattern will be broken.

    If Opinium, or Savanta, release a poll with a >20% lead then that would be a change and would indicate a new pattern.
    I made no great claims about it. I merely noted that it’s the first time since last September that 5 consecutive polls have given Labour a 20%+ lead.

    So I don’t think it is “silly”. Sometimes when the pattern begins to form it takes a while for everyone to see it. Put more empirically, the Conservatives dropped another 2% in March. https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/prediction_main.html
    If a change happens then, thanks to you "noticing" it several previous times, you will claim to have greater perception than mundane other people. But at the moment all you have is an artifact of the publishing timetable of the forms with different biases. And so, yes, it is silly to make something of it, and particularly silly that you didn't learn your lesson from last week.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,053
    Truss has near zero chance of being next Tory leader. If a rightwinger succeeds Sunak it will likely be Badenoch or Braverman, if a relative moderate Barclay or Mordaunt (if she holds her seat).

    Neither MPs nor members would back her now
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    VerulamiusVerulamius Posts: 1,435
    edited April 15
    https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/latest-gb-voting-intention-14-april-2024




    Only 42% of those who voted Conservative in 2019 say they would vote Conservative again—the joint-lowest percentage we’ve recorded since Rishi Sunak became Prime Minister and just five points higher than the lowest percentage (37%) we’ve ever recorded (16 October 2022).

    24% of 2019 Conservative voters now say they would vote for Reform UK—a record high in our polling—18% would vote for Labour, and 7% would vote for other parties.
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    TazTaz Posts: 11,224
    Former Britishvolt site in Northumberland likely to become a data centre creating thousands of jobs.

    https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/former-britishvolt-site-house-data-28998765
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,481

    She has gone full on Trumpite saying Trump must win in November. Other Tories saying Trump must not win and some saying nothing to do with us guv.

    The Tories are really idiotic if they think November is a good time to hold an election here. The main attention will go to Trump. The Tories are deeply and irreconcilably divided on Trump, so they will inevitably look like the divided party they are. And the Tories need attention domestically to somehow catch up in the polling.

    As they are indeed idiotic expect a November election.

    Trump is the Republican candidate, and the Republicans are the right of centre party. Furthermore, it is true that Biden has been one of the least supportive leaders to the UK, and that Trump has always been well-disposed toward the UK and has friends, business interests, and familial ties here. It seems a mark of polite society that we should all clutch our pearls at the very thought of him gaining the White House again - well that can fuck off.
    Not a question of politeness, more an indication of either a disdain for democratic norms or a lack of intelligence, or both, they often go together.
    Democratic norms dictate to me that we should accept whoever the Americans choose, not leave a puddle on the floor about how awful it all is.

    Furthermore Liz Truss is absolutely right to bring the argument back to who has been more supportive to the UK - that's the only dog we have in this fight, and something too many of us are utterly blind to, either because we feel the national interest is a dirty concept, or because we're the sort of thicko who defaces the cenotaph because an American policman killed someone.
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,270
    On topic, I won't be betting on it but I can imagine Liz Truss going for Conservative leader again. Amazing to say but I don't think she sees her period as PM as any sort of personal failure. It's about self-care, I suppose. Letting in too much challenging reality too quickly can be harmful to a person. Plus why should she anyway? There's no shortage of people in the party who inhabit the same fantasy world she does.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,090
    GIN1138 said:

    A loopy Liz comeback as LOTO really would take the Tories into the wilderness for a decade...

    She's be William Hague and IDS combined :D

    "Do not underestimate the determination of a crazy woman."
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,481
    HYUFD said:

    Truss has near zero chance of being next Tory leader. If a rightwinger succeeds Sunak it will likely be Badenoch or Braverman, if a relative moderate Barclay or Mordaunt (if she holds her seat).

    Neither MPs nor members would back her now

    I agree. I am interested to hear that she's apparently not given up the idea - though I'd like to see the quote in its context.
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    numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 5,478
    Heathener said:

    GIN1138 said:

    A loopy Liz comeback as LOTO really would take the Tories into the wilderness for a decade...

    She's be William Hague and IDS combined :D

    I think it’s almost a given that they will be in the political wilderness for a decade. I’m increasingly thinking it will be 20 years before anyone in this country dares trust them again with the keys to No. 10.

    People will look back on these as the Horror Years. Short of WWIII, which may yet happen, almost everything that could go wrong, did.
    I’m still not entirely convinced that “The Conservative and Unionist Party” brand is going to survive. When a right wing party takes office again I could very much see it being under a different badge.
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    TazTaz Posts: 11,224
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    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,280

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    Afternoon everyone. When this happened a week ago, along came two polls to mess it up but this time I think it will stand:

    As of today 5 consecutive opinion polls have been published with Labour leads of 20%+ which is the first time this sequence has occurred since last September. The steady trend away from the Conservatives continues. For Rishi ‘things can only get worser’




    This is silly. There's no huge change in the lead, and as soon as one of the pollsters who report a smaller lead than the other firms releases a new poll then your pattern will be broken.

    If Opinium, or Savanta, release a poll with a >20% lead then that would be a change and would indicate a new pattern.
    I made no great claims about it. I merely noted that it’s the first time since last September that 5 consecutive polls have given Labour a 20%+ lead.

    So I don’t think it is “silly”. Sometimes when the pattern begins to form it takes a while for everyone to see it. Put more empirically, the Conservatives dropped another 2% in March. https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/prediction_main.html
    If a change happens then, thanks to you "noticing" it several previous times, you will claim to have greater perception than mundane other people. But at the moment all you have is an artifact of the publishing timetable of the forms with different biases. And so, yes, it is silly to make something of it, and particularly silly that you didn't learn your lesson from last week.
    There is something of a pattern here though at the moment. Have a look at it:



    I’m not saying it will continue to the point where there’s Reform-Conservative crossover but there is a pretty clear ongoing fall in support for the Conservatives.
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    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,513

    She has gone full on Trumpite saying Trump must win in November. Other Tories saying Trump must not win and some saying nothing to do with us guv.

    The Tories are really idiotic if they think November is a good time to hold an election here. The main attention will go to Trump. The Tories are deeply and irreconcilably divided on Trump, so they will inevitably look like the divided party they are. And the Tories need attention domestically to somehow catch up in the polling.

    As they are indeed idiotic expect a November election.

    Trump is the Republican candidate, and the Republicans are the right of centre party. Furthermore, it is true that Biden has been one of the least supportive leaders to the UK, and that Trump has always been well-disposed toward the UK and has friends, business interests, and familial ties here. It seems a mark of polite society that we should all clutch our pearls at the very thought of him gaining the White House again - well that can fuck off.
    It is a mark of a sane society that even those like myself who are right of centre regard the idea of having a POTUS who is a sociopath lunatic with numerous indictments for fraud, clearly incited riot and insurgency, is a misogynist who has been successfully sued for rape and who has lied about winning an election that he lost, find the idea of that Cnut holding the most powerful position on the planet thoroughly disturbing, even though I don't have any strings of pearls.

    What is equally disturbing is that anyone with half a brain would think that just because he is not "of the left" then he might be appropriate for high office. He should be locked up (usual innocent until proven guilty caveats even apply to him)
    Besides, just because US Democrats are their party of the left, doesn't mean that they are left-wing as we would understand it.
This discussion has been closed.