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PM for PM – politicalbetting.com

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  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,201

    Scott_xP said:

    @KevinASchofield

    🚨 The HuffPost UK weekend political read on why Tory MPs believe Rishi Sunak is “certain” to face a leadership challenge in weeks.

    One said: “This feels like the week where it’s started to fall apart completely.”

    Even if he did he would win it easily
    Boris Johnson and Theresa May won their VONCs and were gone within weeks.
    Not this close to a GE
    Irrelevant.

    We changed Prime Ministers during both World Wars, changing a PM a few months before an election is no biggie.
    It is when you have already done it twice

    Anyway not sure why I am arguing because no matter the conservatives are going into opposition and likely for a long time no matter what they do
    A huge difference in opposition with 215 MPs and LOTO Penny, and in opposition with 125 MPs and LOTO Braverman.

    That’s what the argument and growing emotion around six more months of PM Sunak is about - that Tory members and voters and goodness knows how many MPs till proved by the coming VONC don’t want PM Sunak too, as well as everyone else in the country.
    I think any new leader will have to submit themselves to a full leadership election if the GE is lost. A small loss would give them momentum going into it, but it shouldn't be enough for them to be kept on. Only a win should do that.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,159
    That’s not a fecking penalty. He was trying to catch it. Rubbish from the ref.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,343

    TimS said:

    Not going to lie but La Marseillaise is the best national anthem in the world.

    I cannot tell you how much it pains me to say that.

    Even my loins girded there.

    You mean the words about thicko revolutionaries marching on the next town to chop everyone up with scythes? The Marseillaise is gibberish, one of the worst national anthems out there as it doesn’t represent a nation at all if it’s not repressing the life, love and philosophies are those all chopped up by scythes when all they were doing was out shopping for onions.

    The USA has the best anthem ever.
    The US anthem has the same faults as the British. Ends on a low note, no final instrumental, and is a bit dirgy throughout.

    This debate has been had countless times on PB so there’s no need to re-argue it here, but simply stated the best national anthems in descending order are:

    1. Wales - land of my fathers
    2. Germany - Deutschland Uber allés
    3. The Marseillaise
    4. South Africa - Nkosi sikelel iAfrica
    5. Norniron - Danny boy
    GSTQ (it's not GSTK) is simple, with nice neat rhymes, and it's got a good climax. The Marseillaise falters off after a strong start. The Star Spangled Banner starts off very similar to the Marseillaise to my ears, but has a great climax.
    And the fact the US used a British tune for starters, and messily tried to spread their great Freedom poem over the top of it, says so much about them.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,159
    Justice.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,273

    That’s not a fecking penalty. He was trying to catch it. Rubbish from the ref.

    Even shitter from the TMO.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,563

    FFS

    Are the French winning?

    :innocent:
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,867
    Carnyx said:

    Further to the developing schools meals crisis ... one school has ended up giving free breakfasts to the *parents*.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/mar/16/if-a-child-is-hungry-it-doesnt-matter-if-youre-a-bloody-good-teacher

    Before I retired as a Childrens Panel member in 2012, children coming to school hungry and needing to be fed, and needing to sleep, having lain awake with empty tummies, was a big issue. I don’t suppose it has changed since. The other hidden issue was children acting as carers for their parents, mostly their mothers. We are a heartless society.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,201

    TimS said:

    Not going to lie but La Marseillaise is the best national anthem in the world.

    I cannot tell you how much it pains me to say that.

    Even my loins girded there.

    You mean the words about thicko revolutionaries marching on the next town to chop everyone up with scythes? The Marseillaise is gibberish, one of the worst national anthems out there as it doesn’t represent a nation at all if it’s not repressing the life, love and philosophies are those all chopped up by scythes when all they were doing was out shopping for onions.

    The USA has the best anthem ever.
    The US anthem has the same faults as the British. Ends on a low note, no final instrumental, and is a bit dirgy throughout.

    This debate has been had countless times on PB so there’s no need to re-argue it here, but simply stated the best national anthems in descending order are:

    1. Wales - land of my fathers
    2. Germany - Deutschland Uber allés
    3. The Marseillaise
    4. South Africa - Nkosi sikelel iAfrica
    5. Norniron - Danny boy
    GSTQ (it's not GSTK) is simple, with nice neat rhymes, and it's got a good climax. The Marseillaise falters off after a strong start. The Star Spangled Banner starts off very similar to the Marseillaise to my ears, but has a great climax.
    And the fact the US used a British tune for starters, and messily tried to spread their great Freedom poem over the top of it, says so much about them.
    They nicked GST(K) and called it something else with their own lyrics.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,273
    edited March 16

    FFS

    Are the French winning?

    :innocent:
    Not if this conversion goes in.

    Edit - It does.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,343

    Scott_xP said:

    @KevinASchofield

    🚨 The HuffPost UK weekend political read on why Tory MPs believe Rishi Sunak is “certain” to face a leadership challenge in weeks.

    One said: “This feels like the week where it’s started to fall apart completely.”

    Even if he did he would win it easily
    Boris Johnson and Theresa May won their VONCs and were gone within weeks.
    Not this close to a GE
    Irrelevant.

    We changed Prime Ministers during both World Wars, changing a PM a few months before an election is no biggie.
    It is when you have already done it twice

    Anyway not sure why I am arguing because no matter the conservatives are going into opposition and likely for a long time no matter what they do
    A huge difference in opposition with 215 MPs and LOTO Penny, and in opposition with 125 MPs and LOTO Braverman.

    That’s what the argument and growing emotion around six more months of PM Sunak is about - that Tory members and voters and goodness knows how many MPs till proved by the coming VONC don’t want PM Sunak too, as well as everyone else in the country.
    I think any new leader will have to submit themselves to a full leadership election if the GE is lost. A small loss would give them momentum going into it, but it shouldn't be enough for them to be kept on. Only a win should do that.
    Any Sunak replacement who gets 200+ MPs will be chaired around for a few years and given a chance of showing what they can do as LOTO.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,702

    Not going to lie but La Marseillaise is the best national anthem in the world.

    I cannot tell you how much it pains me to say that.

    Even my loins girded there.

    You mean the words about thicko revolutionaries marching on the next town to chop everyone up with scythes? The Marseillaise is gibberish, one of the worst national anthems out there as it doesn’t represent a nation at all if it’s not repressing the life, love and philosophies are those all chopped up by scythes when all they were doing was out shopping for onions.

    The USA has the best anthem ever.
    I always suspected you were an idiot. Now I know that you are an idiot without soul. Hearing La Marseillaise makes me wish I were French, and that’s even without the cheese, the wine, the sensible attitude to lunch and the healthy disregard for their “betters”.
    We French and British have a healthy love for each others’ patriotism. One of the most spine tingling moments of my life was Bastille day in 1993 outside les invalides when, to the sound of a thousand fireworks, they played Elgar’s land of hope and glory at trouser vibrating volume, sung along to by all the assembled French, followed by La Marseillaise.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,439

    DavidL said:

    TimS said:

    ohnotnow said:

    darkage said:

    HYUFD said:

    darkage said:

    isam said:

    Stocky said:

    isam said:

    In the Lord Ashcroft poll, 2019 Tories have Boris in second place behind Penny Mourdant. It doesn’t really matter that Labour and Lib Dem voters hate (fear?) other potential Tory leaders less

    What do you make of Patel and Badenoch, Isam?
    I don’t know a lot about Badenoch really. I used to quite like Patel. To be honest I don’t follow politics as obsessively as I used to, hence my only real opinion is the Tories made a mistake getting rid of Boris.

    I listened to a good interview with Suella Braverman the other day. Matt Forde’s Political Party Podcast, but that was from 2019 - she came across really well, and the hate she gets from people I disagree with on almost everything means I’d prob quite like her as PM.

    https://shows.acast.com/the-political-party/episodes/suella-braverman-replay

    I just wish Sir Keir wasn’t Labour leader, then I could happily take no interest in who wins


    Both Patel and Braverman have a massive authoritarian streak and are not afraid to go way beyond what is either necessary or decent to get their way. Neither of them deserve to be anywhere near power.

    Badenoch has not shown that streak in my mind as yet so I am willing to consider her. I don't see Mordant as being anywhere near as 'woke' as some like to claim. She strikes me as being far more of a 'live and let live' sort of politician unemcumbered by the bigotries of too many others in herparty.
    Apart from the Post Office handling, this was the red flag for me about Badenoch.

    Florida’s rightwing governor, Ron DeSantis, has backed UK business secretary Kemi Badenoch in taking on what he calls “the woke”.

    DeSantis, who is expected to challenge Donald Trump for the Republican nomination for the 2024 presidential election, met Badenoch and foreign secretary James Cleverly on a visit to London this week.

    Florida’s rightwing governor, Ron DeSantis, has backed UK business secretary Kemi Badenoch in taking on what he calls “the woke”.

    DeSantis, who is expected to challenge Donald Trump for the Republican nomination for the 2024 presidential election, met Badenoch and foreign secretary James Cleverly on a visit to London this week....

    ...Some of DeSantis’s views would be considered far outside mainstream UK politics – he recently signed a law to ban abortion in Florida after six weeks of pregnancy, for example.

    So-called parental rights legislation passed under his governorship has also led to the removal of hundreds of books from school libraries in the state.

    DeSantis insists only books that are “pornographic, violent or inappropriate” have been banned, but some school districts have responded to the new laws by removing books including The Handmaid’s Tale by Margaret Atwood and Judy Blume’s Forever from circulation.


    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/apr/30/ron-desantis-backs-kemi-badenochs-war-on-woke
    People will regret DeSantis not succeeding, when Trump wins the presidency later this year (as seems likely)
    Assuming Trump isn't convicted and jailed in his criminal cases by November of course, handing Biden re election on a plate.

    If he is, then DeSantis, having ruled out being Trump's VP nominee today, will likely battle it out with Haley for the 2028 GOP nomination
    If Trump gets jailed then surely there is a high risk of civil war?
    Certainly ups the risk of some reddit users who live off supplements and protein shakes being mown down by Apache attack helicopters, if that's what you mean?
    I consulted Reddit this afternoon on the vexed question of why IKEA doesn’t sell duvets or covers that fit a superking bed, despite displaying 2 singles joined together into a superking in their bed section.

    But their widest duvet is 240cm. Bastards.
    The psychological and indeed psychiatric underpinning of IKEA is profoundly subtle but there is no doubt that it is designed to drive their customers insane.
    IKEA was founded by an actual Nazi.

    So it is part of his plan to slowly torment Western Europeans until they smash all the wardrobes, and start building flat pack searchlights for recreation of the Cathedral Of Light.
    Yes, but the Poäng is the best chair ever, and the meatballs are good.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,201

    Scott_xP said:

    @KevinASchofield

    🚨 The HuffPost UK weekend political read on why Tory MPs believe Rishi Sunak is “certain” to face a leadership challenge in weeks.

    One said: “This feels like the week where it’s started to fall apart completely.”

    Even if he did he would win it easily
    Boris Johnson and Theresa May won their VONCs and were gone within weeks.
    Not this close to a GE
    Irrelevant.

    We changed Prime Ministers during both World Wars, changing a PM a few months before an election is no biggie.
    It is when you have already done it twice

    Anyway not sure why I am arguing because no matter the conservatives are going into opposition and likely for a long time no matter what they do
    A huge difference in opposition with 215 MPs and LOTO Penny, and in opposition with 125 MPs and LOTO Braverman.

    That’s what the argument and growing emotion around six more months of PM Sunak is about - that Tory members and voters and goodness knows how many MPs till proved by the coming VONC don’t want PM Sunak too, as well as everyone else in the country.
    I think any new leader will have to submit themselves to a full leadership election if the GE is lost. A small loss would give them momentum going into it, but it shouldn't be enough for them to be kept on. Only a win should do that.
    Any Sunak replacement who gets 200+ MPs will be chaired around for a few years and given a chance of showing what they can do as LOTO.
    Perhaps, but they shouldn't.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,273
    FFS
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,273
    kle4 said:

    Best Six Nations in years.

    Yup, Wales win the wooden spoon.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,686
    What a game.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,635
    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    TimS said:

    ohnotnow said:

    darkage said:

    HYUFD said:

    darkage said:

    isam said:

    Stocky said:

    isam said:

    In the Lord Ashcroft poll, 2019 Tories have Boris in second place behind Penny Mourdant. It doesn’t really matter that Labour and Lib Dem voters hate (fear?) other potential Tory leaders less

    What do you make of Patel and Badenoch, Isam?
    I don’t know a lot about Badenoch really. I used to quite like Patel. To be honest I don’t follow politics as obsessively as I used to, hence my only real opinion is the Tories made a mistake getting rid of Boris.

    I listened to a good interview with Suella Braverman the other day. Matt Forde’s Political Party Podcast, but that was from 2019 - she came across really well, and the hate she gets from people I disagree with on almost everything means I’d prob quite like her as PM.

    https://shows.acast.com/the-political-party/episodes/suella-braverman-replay

    I just wish Sir Keir wasn’t Labour leader, then I could happily take no interest in who wins


    Both Patel and Braverman have a massive authoritarian streak and are not afraid to go way beyond what is either necessary or decent to get their way. Neither of them deserve to be anywhere near power.

    Badenoch has not shown that streak in my mind as yet so I am willing to consider her. I don't see Mordant as being anywhere near as 'woke' as some like to claim. She strikes me as being far more of a 'live and let live' sort of politician unemcumbered by the bigotries of too many others in herparty.
    Apart from the Post Office handling, this was the red flag for me about Badenoch.

    Florida’s rightwing governor, Ron DeSantis, has backed UK business secretary Kemi Badenoch in taking on what he calls “the woke”.

    DeSantis, who is expected to challenge Donald Trump for the Republican nomination for the 2024 presidential election, met Badenoch and foreign secretary James Cleverly on a visit to London this week.

    Florida’s rightwing governor, Ron DeSantis, has backed UK business secretary Kemi Badenoch in taking on what he calls “the woke”.

    DeSantis, who is expected to challenge Donald Trump for the Republican nomination for the 2024 presidential election, met Badenoch and foreign secretary James Cleverly on a visit to London this week....

    ...Some of DeSantis’s views would be considered far outside mainstream UK politics – he recently signed a law to ban abortion in Florida after six weeks of pregnancy, for example.

    So-called parental rights legislation passed under his governorship has also led to the removal of hundreds of books from school libraries in the state.

    DeSantis insists only books that are “pornographic, violent or inappropriate” have been banned, but some school districts have responded to the new laws by removing books including The Handmaid’s Tale by Margaret Atwood and Judy Blume’s Forever from circulation.


    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/apr/30/ron-desantis-backs-kemi-badenochs-war-on-woke
    People will regret DeSantis not succeeding, when Trump wins the presidency later this year (as seems likely)
    Assuming Trump isn't convicted and jailed in his criminal cases by November of course, handing Biden re election on a plate.

    If he is, then DeSantis, having ruled out being Trump's VP nominee today, will likely battle it out with Haley for the 2028 GOP nomination
    If Trump gets jailed then surely there is a high risk of civil war?
    Certainly ups the risk of some reddit users who live off supplements and protein shakes being mown down by Apache attack helicopters, if that's what you mean?
    I consulted Reddit this afternoon on the vexed question of why IKEA doesn’t sell duvets or covers that fit a superking bed, despite displaying 2 singles joined together into a superking in their bed section.

    But their widest duvet is 240cm. Bastards.
    The psychological and indeed psychiatric underpinning of IKEA is profoundly subtle but there is no doubt that it is designed to drive their customers insane.
    IKEA was founded by an actual Nazi.

    So it is part of his plan to slowly torment Western Europeans until they smash all the wardrobes, and start building flat pack searchlights for recreation of the Cathedral Of Light.
    Yes, but the Poäng is the best chair ever, and the meatballs are good.
    Seriously? We're needing new chairs, so I'm interested.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,702
    Good game, good game.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,731

    kle4 said:

    Best Six Nations in years.

    Yup, Wales win the wooden spoon.
    I'm just loving the points differences - England almost won 4 games with a negative points difference, even for winning three it's strange.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,731

    Scott_xP said:

    @KevinASchofield

    🚨 The HuffPost UK weekend political read on why Tory MPs believe Rishi Sunak is “certain” to face a leadership challenge in weeks.

    One said: “This feels like the week where it’s started to fall apart completely.”

    Even if he did he would win it easily
    Boris Johnson and Theresa May won their VONCs and were gone within weeks.
    Not this close to a GE
    Irrelevant.

    We changed Prime Ministers during both World Wars, changing a PM a few months before an election is no biggie.
    It is when you have already done it twice

    Anyway not sure why I am arguing because no matter the conservatives are going into opposition and likely for a long time no matter what they do
    A huge difference in opposition with 215 MPs and LOTO Penny, and in opposition with 125 MPs and LOTO Braverman.

    That’s what the argument and growing emotion around six more months of PM Sunak is about - that Tory members and voters and goodness knows how many MPs till proved by the coming VONC don’t want PM Sunak too, as well as everyone else in the country.
    I think any new leader will have to submit themselves to a full leadership election if the GE is lost. A small loss would give them momentum going into it, but it shouldn't be enough for them to be kept on. Only a win should do that.
    I don't think the Members being involved in a full leadership election makes any electoral difference, but it would probably be wise on a party basis to make sure they have won next time.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,623
    That is why rugby will never grow as a major professional sport.

    France won by kicking a penalty which 99% of viewers haven't got the faintest idea why it was awarded.

    You are just never going to grow wide appeal with rules like that.

    Imagine every time a foul was committed in football you had a free kick with an open goal and you got half a goal for kicking it into the open net.

    Completely bonkers.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,554

    Jacob Rees-Mogg still does not believe Boris Johnson did anything wrong during Partygate. Goodness gracious me.

    Please God let JRM be the Portillo moment at the General Election.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,046
    I did not expect that the thing I would miss most about Britain was the more bellicose and warlike attitude of the British compared to the excuse-mongering that is peddled in Ireland to justify not standing up to Putin.

    I am very glad that Britain is still standing beside Ukraine in the war, and there's a fair number of countries, or politicians, who should be ashamed of standing to one side.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,285

    Not going to lie but La Marseillaise is the best national anthem in the world.

    I cannot tell you how much it pains me to say that.

    Even my loins girded there.

    You mean the words about thicko revolutionaries marching on the next town to chop everyone up with scythes? The Marseillaise is gibberish, one of the worst national anthems out there as it doesn’t represent a nation at all if it’s not repressing the life, love and philosophies are those all chopped up by scythes when all they were doing was out shopping for onions.

    The USA has the best anthem ever.
    I always suspected you were an idiot. Now I know that you are an idiot without soul. Hearing La Marseillaise makes me wish I were French, and that’s even without the cheese, the wine, the sensible attitude to lunch and the healthy disregard for their “betters”.
    I also like the French approach to horizontal jogging love.
    What - saving your best for your mistress?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,343

    Not going to lie but La Marseillaise is the best national anthem in the world.

    I cannot tell you how much it pains me to say that.

    Even my loins girded there.

    You mean the words about thicko revolutionaries marching on the next town to chop everyone up with scythes? The Marseillaise is gibberish, one of the worst national anthems out there as it doesn’t represent a nation at all if it’s not repressing the life, love and philosophies are those all chopped up by scythes when all they were doing was out shopping for onions.

    The USA has the best anthem ever.
    I always suspected you were an idiot. Now I know that you are an idiot without soul. Hearing La Marseillaise makes me wish I were French, and that’s even without the cheese, the wine, the sensible attitude to lunch and the healthy disregard for their “betters”.
    “I always suspected you were an idiot. Now I know that you are an idiot without soul.‘

    For an anthem, especially National anthem, words matter far more than tune. It’s as simple as that.

    Both Jerusalem and Land of Hope and Glory don’t count either, as both are fake and hideous. One was words, poetic and largely without meaning to you unless you shared the meaning with the poet, later set to music. The second was a conceptual piece of music utterly bastardised and vandalised by those who didn’t have a clue about the artists concept, and put pompous words to it ignorant of capturing the Yang to the ying circumstance.

    I never suspected you to be an idiot, but if you disagree with my reply you certainly are, and one devoid of understanding what makes a good anthem.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,731

    The great irony of the MoS's headline is that if they weren't so determined to have killed her chances, we could have had Penny Mordaunt PM replacing Boris.

    As I remember it, Team Sunak lent Truss votes in final round, because they Feared Penny would beat Rishi, whilst Truss would be easier.
    I seem to recall the polling was pretty clear whoever got in against Rishi would beat him with the Members, but I imagine his team felt otherwise so it would make sense.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    TimS said:

    Not going to lie but La Marseillaise is the best national anthem in the world.

    I cannot tell you how much it pains me to say that.

    Even my loins girded there.

    You mean the words about thicko revolutionaries marching on the next town to chop everyone up with scythes? The Marseillaise is gibberish, one of the worst national anthems out there as it doesn’t represent a nation at all if it’s not repressing the life, love and philosophies are those all chopped up by scythes when all they were doing was out shopping for onions.

    The USA has the best anthem ever.
    The US anthem has the same faults as the British. Ends on a low note, no final instrumental, and is a bit dirgy throughout.

    This debate has been had countless times on PB so there’s no need to re-argue it here, but simply stated the best national anthems in descending order are:

    1. Wales - land of my fathers
    2. Germany - Deutschland Uber allés
    3. The Marseillaise
    4. South Africa - Nkosi sikelel iAfrica
    5. Norniron - Danny boy
    I love Star Spangled Banner, which is hilariously unsingable: Say can you see by d -uh ugh cough - awns early light. Having negotiated the ascending melody you then have to navigate the convoluted lyrics.

    Fratelli d'Italia is a rousing song if you have a military band. Of course they should have chosen Va Pensiero because Verdi was Mr Italy and no-one does a better tune.

    La Marseillaise is the most national anthem of them all. If you complain about the bloodthirsty lyrics you are missing the point.

    But Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau is the best. It's sincere and moving, the reason why people sing. I
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,046

    I did not expect that the thing I would miss most about Britain was the more bellicose and warlike attitude of the British compared to the excuse-mongering that is peddled in Ireland to justify not standing up to Putin.

    I am very glad that Britain is still standing beside Ukraine in the war, and there's a fair number of countries, or politicians, who should be ashamed of standing to one side.

    The last time this came up at home I think I rather upset my father-in-law by dating that Russia had as much right to Crimea as Britain had to Cork. Fuxsake.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,273
    edited March 16

    Not going to lie but La Marseillaise is the best national anthem in the world.

    I cannot tell you how much it pains me to say that.

    Even my loins girded there.

    You mean the words about thicko revolutionaries marching on the next town to chop everyone up with scythes? The Marseillaise is gibberish, one of the worst national anthems out there as it doesn’t represent a nation at all if it’s not repressing the life, love and philosophies are those all chopped up by scythes when all they were doing was out shopping for onions.

    The USA has the best anthem ever.
    I always suspected you were an idiot. Now I know that you are an idiot without soul. Hearing La Marseillaise makes me wish I were French, and that’s even without the cheese, the wine, the sensible attitude to lunch and the healthy disregard for their “betters”.
    I also like the French approach to horizontal jogging love.
    What - saving your best for your mistress?
    Singular?

    I think you mean mistresses.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,617
    England have grounds for optimism. Stopped playing quite such stodgy rugby. Have an amazing array of young talent. They just won the under 20s

    For England the rugby future is bright. For Scotland it is bright but frustrating. For Ireland I detect the first dimming of the dazzle. For Wales it is dark as the devil’s arse
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,550
    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    TimS said:

    ohnotnow said:

    darkage said:

    HYUFD said:

    darkage said:

    isam said:

    Stocky said:

    isam said:

    In the Lord Ashcroft poll, 2019 Tories have Boris in second place behind Penny Mourdant. It doesn’t really matter that Labour and Lib Dem voters hate (fear?) other potential Tory leaders less

    What do you make of Patel and Badenoch, Isam?
    I don’t know a lot about Badenoch really. I used to quite like Patel. To be honest I don’t follow politics as obsessively as I used to, hence my only real opinion is the Tories made a mistake getting rid of Boris.

    I listened to a good interview with Suella Braverman the other day. Matt Forde’s Political Party Podcast, but that was from 2019 - she came across really well, and the hate she gets from people I disagree with on almost everything means I’d prob quite like her as PM.

    https://shows.acast.com/the-political-party/episodes/suella-braverman-replay

    I just wish Sir Keir wasn’t Labour leader, then I could happily take no interest in who wins


    Both Patel and Braverman have a massive authoritarian streak and are not afraid to go way beyond what is either necessary or decent to get their way. Neither of them deserve to be anywhere near power.

    Badenoch has not shown that streak in my mind as yet so I am willing to consider her. I don't see Mordant as being anywhere near as 'woke' as some like to claim. She strikes me as being far more of a 'live and let live' sort of politician unemcumbered by the bigotries of too many others in herparty.
    Apart from the Post Office handling, this was the red flag for me about Badenoch.

    Florida’s rightwing governor, Ron DeSantis, has backed UK business secretary Kemi Badenoch in taking on what he calls “the woke”.

    DeSantis, who is expected to challenge Donald Trump for the Republican nomination for the 2024 presidential election, met Badenoch and foreign secretary James Cleverly on a visit to London this week.

    Florida’s rightwing governor, Ron DeSantis, has backed UK business secretary Kemi Badenoch in taking on what he calls “the woke”.

    DeSantis, who is expected to challenge Donald Trump for the Republican nomination for the 2024 presidential election, met Badenoch and foreign secretary James Cleverly on a visit to London this week....

    ...Some of DeSantis’s views would be considered far outside mainstream UK politics – he recently signed a law to ban abortion in Florida after six weeks of pregnancy, for example.

    So-called parental rights legislation passed under his governorship has also led to the removal of hundreds of books from school libraries in the state.

    DeSantis insists only books that are “pornographic, violent or inappropriate” have been banned, but some school districts have responded to the new laws by removing books including The Handmaid’s Tale by Margaret Atwood and Judy Blume’s Forever from circulation.


    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/apr/30/ron-desantis-backs-kemi-badenochs-war-on-woke
    People will regret DeSantis not succeeding, when Trump wins the presidency later this year (as seems likely)
    Assuming Trump isn't convicted and jailed in his criminal cases by November of course, handing Biden re election on a plate.

    If he is, then DeSantis, having ruled out being Trump's VP nominee today, will likely battle it out with Haley for the 2028 GOP nomination
    If Trump gets jailed then surely there is a high risk of civil war?
    Certainly ups the risk of some reddit users who live off supplements and protein shakes being mown down by Apache attack helicopters, if that's what you mean?
    I consulted Reddit this afternoon on the vexed question of why IKEA doesn’t sell duvets or covers that fit a superking bed, despite displaying 2 singles joined together into a superking in their bed section.

    But their widest duvet is 240cm. Bastards.
    The psychological and indeed psychiatric underpinning of IKEA is profoundly subtle but there is no doubt that it is designed to drive their customers insane.
    IKEA was founded by an actual Nazi.

    So it is part of his plan to slowly torment Western Europeans until they smash all the wardrobes, and start building flat pack searchlights for recreation of the Cathedral Of Light.
    Yes, but the Poäng is the best chair ever, and the meatballs are good.
    Seriously? We're needing new chairs, so I'm interested.
    Careful

    That’s how it starts.

    First the new chairs.

    Then you realise you need a bigger living room….
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,731

    Jacob Rees-Mogg still does not believe Boris Johnson did anything wrong during Partygate. Goodness gracious me.

    Please God let JRM be the Portillo moment at the General Election.
    We will have plenty of options to choose such a moment from.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,159
    MikeL said:

    That is why rugby will never grow as a major professional sport.

    France won by kicking a penalty which 99% of viewers haven't got the faintest idea why it was awarded.

    You are just never going to grow wide appeal with rules like that.

    Imagine every time a foul was committed in football you had a free kick with an open goal and you got half a goal for kicking it into the open net.

    Completely bonkers.

    No arm tackle. What wasn’t clear about that?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,635

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    TimS said:

    ohnotnow said:

    darkage said:

    HYUFD said:

    darkage said:

    isam said:

    Stocky said:

    isam said:

    In the Lord Ashcroft poll, 2019 Tories have Boris in second place behind Penny Mourdant. It doesn’t really matter that Labour and Lib Dem voters hate (fear?) other potential Tory leaders less

    What do you make of Patel and Badenoch, Isam?
    I don’t know a lot about Badenoch really. I used to quite like Patel. To be honest I don’t follow politics as obsessively as I used to, hence my only real opinion is the Tories made a mistake getting rid of Boris.

    I listened to a good interview with Suella Braverman the other day. Matt Forde’s Political Party Podcast, but that was from 2019 - she came across really well, and the hate she gets from people I disagree with on almost everything means I’d prob quite like her as PM.

    https://shows.acast.com/the-political-party/episodes/suella-braverman-replay

    I just wish Sir Keir wasn’t Labour leader, then I could happily take no interest in who wins


    Both Patel and Braverman have a massive authoritarian streak and are not afraid to go way beyond what is either necessary or decent to get their way. Neither of them deserve to be anywhere near power.

    Badenoch has not shown that streak in my mind as yet so I am willing to consider her. I don't see Mordant as being anywhere near as 'woke' as some like to claim. She strikes me as being far more of a 'live and let live' sort of politician unemcumbered by the bigotries of too many others in herparty.
    Apart from the Post Office handling, this was the red flag for me about Badenoch.

    Florida’s rightwing governor, Ron DeSantis, has backed UK business secretary Kemi Badenoch in taking on what he calls “the woke”.

    DeSantis, who is expected to challenge Donald Trump for the Republican nomination for the 2024 presidential election, met Badenoch and foreign secretary James Cleverly on a visit to London this week.

    Florida’s rightwing governor, Ron DeSantis, has backed UK business secretary Kemi Badenoch in taking on what he calls “the woke”.

    DeSantis, who is expected to challenge Donald Trump for the Republican nomination for the 2024 presidential election, met Badenoch and foreign secretary James Cleverly on a visit to London this week....

    ...Some of DeSantis’s views would be considered far outside mainstream UK politics – he recently signed a law to ban abortion in Florida after six weeks of pregnancy, for example.

    So-called parental rights legislation passed under his governorship has also led to the removal of hundreds of books from school libraries in the state.

    DeSantis insists only books that are “pornographic, violent or inappropriate” have been banned, but some school districts have responded to the new laws by removing books including The Handmaid’s Tale by Margaret Atwood and Judy Blume’s Forever from circulation.


    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/apr/30/ron-desantis-backs-kemi-badenochs-war-on-woke
    People will regret DeSantis not succeeding, when Trump wins the presidency later this year (as seems likely)
    Assuming Trump isn't convicted and jailed in his criminal cases by November of course, handing Biden re election on a plate.

    If he is, then DeSantis, having ruled out being Trump's VP nominee today, will likely battle it out with Haley for the 2028 GOP nomination
    If Trump gets jailed then surely there is a high risk of civil war?
    Certainly ups the risk of some reddit users who live off supplements and protein shakes being mown down by Apache attack helicopters, if that's what you mean?
    I consulted Reddit this afternoon on the vexed question of why IKEA doesn’t sell duvets or covers that fit a superking bed, despite displaying 2 singles joined together into a superking in their bed section.

    But their widest duvet is 240cm. Bastards.
    The psychological and indeed psychiatric underpinning of IKEA is profoundly subtle but there is no doubt that it is designed to drive their customers insane.
    IKEA was founded by an actual Nazi.

    So it is part of his plan to slowly torment Western Europeans until they smash all the wardrobes, and start building flat pack searchlights for recreation of the Cathedral Of Light.
    Yes, but the Poäng is the best chair ever, and the meatballs are good.
    Seriously? We're needing new chairs, so I'm interested.
    Careful

    That’s how it starts.

    First the new chairs.

    Then you realise you need a bigger living room….
    It will take some real discipline. But the chairs are about 50 years old.
  • Dianne Abbott was reportedly offered the Whip back if she went on an anti-Semitism course.

    She refused.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,309
    Sunak goes on about sticking to "the plan".

    Only two years ago the Tory plan included 1p on NI to pay for social care.

    Now the plan is to get rid of NI altogether via the blue magic money tree.

    And he slags Labour off for having no plan. Jeez.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,731

    Dianne Abbott was reportedly offered the Whip back if she went on an anti-Semitism course.

    She refused.

    It is rather surprising to me that she has not gotten the whip back by now, same with Corbyn to an extent, but it's not clear to me that they really want it back anyway - the official reason both have not they could simply resolve, and as both have been MPs for decades perhaps they are looking for a way to go out as martyrs rather than being accused even among their fans of sticking around way too long.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,159

    Dianne Abbott was reportedly offered the Whip back if she went on an anti-Semitism course.

    She refused.

    She knows all about anti semitism and it’s nothing like what sh3 has had to endure, so why go on a course?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,127
    ...
    Leon said:

    England have grounds for optimism. Stopped playing quite such stodgy rugby. Have an amazing array of young talent. They just won the under 20s

    For England the rugby future is bright. For Scotland it is bright but frustrating. For Ireland I detect the first dimming of the dazzle. For Wales it is dark as the devil’s arse

    Two years after the last Welsh wooden spoon a young Gavin Henson converted the penalty to beat England setting in motion a Grand Slam season.

    The only way is up.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,731

    Sunak goes on about sticking to "the plan".

    Only two years ago the Tory plan included 1p on NI to pay for social care.

    Now the plan is to get rid of NI altogether via the blue magic money tree.

    And he slags Labour off for having no plan. Jeez.

    Do you mean to tell me that having a plan involves more than just saying the word plan occasionally?

    Start that kind of thinking and our politics will need to be rebuilt from the ground up.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,309
    Mail reporting a poll that shows Lab majority of only 250.

    Starmer must go.
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,591

    Mail reporting a poll that shows Lab majority of only 250.

    Starmer must go.

    .😊
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,273
    FFS

    Too many Tory MPs “of colour” are happy to “pull the ladder up” behind them and not help other ethnic minorities now they have been successful, Humza Yousaf has said.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/humza-yousaf-tory-mps-of-colour-pulling-ladder-up-behind-them-drtdfsvpc
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,731
    edited March 16

    FFS

    Too many Tory MPs “of colour” are happy to “pull the ladder up” behind them and not help other ethnic minorities now they have been successful, Humza Yousaf has said.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/humza-yousaf-tory-mps-of-colour-pulling-ladder-up-behind-them-drtdfsvpc

    Ah, we're pulling out the old race traitor tropes are we?

    As a white man on behalf of minorities everywhere, that's just not on.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,867

    Not going to lie but La Marseillaise is the best national anthem in the world.

    I cannot tell you how much it pains me to say that.

    Even my loins girded there.

    You mean the words about thicko revolutionaries marching on the next town to chop everyone up with scythes? The Marseillaise is gibberish, one of the worst national anthems out there as it doesn’t represent a nation at all if it’s not repressing the life, love and philosophies are those all chopped up by scythes when all they were doing was out shopping for onions.

    The USA has the best anthem ever.
    I always suspected you were an idiot. Now I know that you are an idiot without soul. Hearing La Marseillaise makes me wish I were French, and that’s even without the cheese, the wine, the sensible attitude to lunch and the healthy disregard for their “betters”.
    “I always suspected you were an idiot. Now I know that you are an idiot without soul.‘

    For an anthem, especially National anthem, words matter far more than tune. It’s as simple as that.

    Both Jerusalem and Land of Hope and Glory don’t count either, as both are fake and hideous. One was words, poetic and largely without meaning to you unless you shared the meaning with the poet, later set to music. The second was a conceptual piece of music utterly bastardised and vandalised by those who didn’t have a clue about the artists concept, and put pompous words to it ignorant of capturing the Yang to the ying circumstance.

    I never suspected you to be an idiot, but if you disagree with my reply you certainly are, and one devoid of understanding what makes a good anthem.
    Neither Jerusalem or Land of Hope and Glory are national anthems, although Land of Hope and Glory would be a better English national anthem than the current dirge to an irrelevant bunch of parasites.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,309
    Acyn
    @Acyn
    ·
    1h
    Trump: Now, If I don't get elected, it's gonna be a bloodbath. It's going to be a bloodbath for the country.

    https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1769102618213638350
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,554

    MikeL said:

    That is why rugby will never grow as a major professional sport.

    France won by kicking a penalty which 99% of viewers haven't got the faintest idea why it was awarded.

    You are just never going to grow wide appeal with rules like that.

    Imagine every time a foul was committed in football you had a free kick with an open goal and you got half a goal for kicking it into the open net.

    Completely bonkers.

    No arm tackle. What wasn’t clear about that?
    We never saw it on the TV and I bet none of the fans in the stadium did either.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,127
    kle4 said:

    Sunak goes on about sticking to "the plan".

    Only two years ago the Tory plan included 1p on NI to pay for social care.

    Now the plan is to get rid of NI altogether via the blue magic money tree.

    And he slags Labour off for having no plan. Jeez.

    Do you mean to tell me that having a plan involves more than just saying the word plan occasionally?

    Start that kind of thinking and our politics will need to be rebuilt from the ground up.
    Do you want to go back to square one?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,731

    Acyn
    @Acyn
    ·
    1h
    Trump: Now, If I don't get elected, it's gonna be a bloodbath. It's going to be a bloodbath for the country.

    https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1769102618213638350

    He wanted violence last time and didn't get as much as he would have liked. He will probably get more this time.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,439
    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    TimS said:

    ohnotnow said:

    darkage said:

    HYUFD said:

    darkage said:

    isam said:

    Stocky said:

    isam said:

    In the Lord Ashcroft poll, 2019 Tories have Boris in second place behind Penny Mourdant. It doesn’t really matter that Labour and Lib Dem voters hate (fear?) other potential Tory leaders less

    What do you make of Patel and Badenoch, Isam?
    I don’t know a lot about Badenoch really. I used to quite like Patel. To be honest I don’t follow politics as obsessively as I used to, hence my only real opinion is the Tories made a mistake getting rid of Boris.

    I listened to a good interview with Suella Braverman the other day. Matt Forde’s Political Party Podcast, but that was from 2019 - she came across really well, and the hate she gets from people I disagree with on almost everything means I’d prob quite like her as PM.

    https://shows.acast.com/the-political-party/episodes/suella-braverman-replay

    I just wish Sir Keir wasn’t Labour leader, then I could happily take no interest in who wins


    Both Patel and Braverman have a massive authoritarian streak and are not afraid to go way beyond what is either necessary or decent to get their way. Neither of them deserve to be anywhere near power.

    Badenoch has not shown that streak in my mind as yet so I am willing to consider her. I don't see Mordant as being anywhere near as 'woke' as some like to claim. She strikes me as being far more of a 'live and let live' sort of politician unemcumbered by the bigotries of too many others in herparty.
    Apart from the Post Office handling, this was the red flag for me about Badenoch.

    Florida’s rightwing governor, Ron DeSantis, has backed UK business secretary Kemi Badenoch in taking on what he calls “the woke”.

    DeSantis, who is expected to challenge Donald Trump for the Republican nomination for the 2024 presidential election, met Badenoch and foreign secretary James Cleverly on a visit to London this week.

    Florida’s rightwing governor, Ron DeSantis, has backed UK business secretary Kemi Badenoch in taking on what he calls “the woke”.

    DeSantis, who is expected to challenge Donald Trump for the Republican nomination for the 2024 presidential election, met Badenoch and foreign secretary James Cleverly on a visit to London this week....

    ...Some of DeSantis’s views would be considered far outside mainstream UK politics – he recently signed a law to ban abortion in Florida after six weeks of pregnancy, for example.

    So-called parental rights legislation passed under his governorship has also led to the removal of hundreds of books from school libraries in the state.

    DeSantis insists only books that are “pornographic, violent or inappropriate” have been banned, but some school districts have responded to the new laws by removing books including The Handmaid’s Tale by Margaret Atwood and Judy Blume’s Forever from circulation.


    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/apr/30/ron-desantis-backs-kemi-badenochs-war-on-woke
    People will regret DeSantis not succeeding, when Trump wins the presidency later this year (as seems likely)
    Assuming Trump isn't convicted and jailed in his criminal cases by November of course, handing Biden re election on a plate.

    If he is, then DeSantis, having ruled out being Trump's VP nominee today, will likely battle it out with Haley for the 2028 GOP nomination
    If Trump gets jailed then surely there is a high risk of civil war?
    Certainly ups the risk of some reddit users who live off supplements and protein shakes being mown down by Apache attack helicopters, if that's what you mean?
    I consulted Reddit this afternoon on the vexed question of why IKEA doesn’t sell duvets or covers that fit a superking bed, despite displaying 2 singles joined together into a superking in their bed section.

    But their widest duvet is 240cm. Bastards.
    The psychological and indeed psychiatric underpinning of IKEA is profoundly subtle but there is no doubt that it is designed to drive their customers insane.
    IKEA was founded by an actual Nazi.

    So it is part of his plan to slowly torment Western Europeans until they smash all the wardrobes, and start building flat pack searchlights for recreation of the Cathedral Of Light.
    Yes, but the Poäng is the best chair ever, and the meatballs are good.
    Seriously? We're needing new chairs, so I'm interested.
    Yep, I love my Poäng. Comfy and springy, a design classic, and great value. I bought one in 1990 and only replaced it last year.

    https://www.ikea.com/gb/en/cat/poaeng-series-07472/

  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,058

    Scott_xP said:

    The Sun says the plot is on.

    The Guardian says it is not.

    I wonder which paper has better sources in the Tory Party...

    Two things that are probably both true:
    1 The plot is on.
    2 The plot is ridiculous.

    Most likely outcome is that the VONC is bad enough to wound Sunak without toppling him (100, maybe 120 against).

    May limped on for six months after a similar disastrous win, which takes Sunak safely close to a late election.

    No particular insight or information, but the Conservatives are clearly in the "everything that can go wrong will go wrong" zone
    “ The plot is ridiculous.‘

    What’s ridiculous about exchanging a crap General Election result for a better one?

    Another swap out doesn’t come without cost, but the cost is more than matched by the electorates delight the hated Sunak is removed. The fact the well liked Penny replaces him only adds to the poll bounce.

    I’m 100% sure, Labour don’t want the Sunak to Penny swan event.
    I think any change will deliver an even worse result. The opposition will paste the Tories even if they selected the Archangel Gabriel. The VONC will knock 20 seats off the Tories just by happening, and if Sunak is not the answer, Mordaunt is unlikely to be any better... just another Tory...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,731

    kle4 said:

    Sunak goes on about sticking to "the plan".

    Only two years ago the Tory plan included 1p on NI to pay for social care.

    Now the plan is to get rid of NI altogether via the blue magic money tree.

    And he slags Labour off for having no plan. Jeez.

    Do you mean to tell me that having a plan involves more than just saying the word plan occasionally?

    Start that kind of thinking and our politics will need to be rebuilt from the ground up.
    Do you want to go back to square one?
    Not particularly, but I also cannot see an easy fix for our politics, as the way it is built and the way we react to it does not incentivise our political leaders to do so.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,439

    kle4 said:

    Sunak goes on about sticking to "the plan".

    Only two years ago the Tory plan included 1p on NI to pay for social care.

    Now the plan is to get rid of NI altogether via the blue magic money tree.

    And he slags Labour off for having no plan. Jeez.

    Do you mean to tell me that having a plan involves more than just saying the word plan occasionally?

    Start that kind of thinking and our politics will need to be rebuilt from the ground up.
    Do you want to go back to square one?
    Rebooting the country seems an excellent idea.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,702
    kle4 said:

    FFS

    Too many Tory MPs “of colour” are happy to “pull the ladder up” behind them and not help other ethnic minorities now they have been successful, Humza Yousaf has said.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/humza-yousaf-tory-mps-of-colour-pulling-ladder-up-behind-them-drtdfsvpc

    Ah, we're pulling out the old race traitor tropes are we?

    As a white man on behalf of minorities everywhere, that's just not on.
    https://x.com/thefastshow1/status/1766385127054028822?s=46
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,867

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    TimS said:

    ohnotnow said:

    darkage said:

    HYUFD said:

    darkage said:

    isam said:

    Stocky said:

    isam said:

    In the Lord Ashcroft poll, 2019 Tories have Boris in second place behind Penny Mourdant. It doesn’t really matter that Labour and Lib Dem voters hate (fear?) other potential Tory leaders less

    What do you make of Patel and Badenoch, Isam?
    I don’t know a lot about Badenoch really. I used to quite like Patel. To be honest I don’t follow politics as obsessively as I used to, hence my only real opinion is the Tories made a mistake getting rid of Boris.

    I listened to a good interview with Suella Braverman the other day. Matt Forde’s Political Party Podcast, but that was from 2019 - she came across really well, and the hate she gets from people I disagree with on almost everything means I’d prob quite like her as PM.

    https://shows.acast.com/the-political-party/episodes/suella-braverman-replay

    I just wish Sir Keir wasn’t Labour leader, then I could happily take no interest in who wins


    Both Patel and Braverman have a massive authoritarian streak and are not afraid to go way beyond what is either necessary or decent to get their way. Neither of them deserve to be anywhere near power.

    Badenoch has not shown that streak in my mind as yet so I am willing to consider her. I don't see Mordant as being anywhere near as 'woke' as some like to claim. She strikes me as being far more of a 'live and let live' sort of politician unemcumbered by the bigotries of too many others in herparty.
    Apart from the Post Office handling, this was the red flag for me about Badenoch.

    Florida’s rightwing governor, Ron DeSantis, has backed UK business secretary Kemi Badenoch in taking on what he calls “the woke”.

    DeSantis, who is expected to challenge Donald Trump for the Republican nomination for the 2024 presidential election, met Badenoch and foreign secretary James Cleverly on a visit to London this week.

    Florida’s rightwing governor, Ron DeSantis, has backed UK business secretary Kemi Badenoch in taking on what he calls “the woke”.

    DeSantis, who is expected to challenge Donald Trump for the Republican nomination for the 2024 presidential election, met Badenoch and foreign secretary James Cleverly on a visit to London this week....

    ...Some of DeSantis’s views would be considered far outside mainstream UK politics – he recently signed a law to ban abortion in Florida after six weeks of pregnancy, for example.

    So-called parental rights legislation passed under his governorship has also led to the removal of hundreds of books from school libraries in the state.

    DeSantis insists only books that are “pornographic, violent or inappropriate” have been banned, but some school districts have responded to the new laws by removing books including The Handmaid’s Tale by Margaret Atwood and Judy Blume’s Forever from circulation.


    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/apr/30/ron-desantis-backs-kemi-badenochs-war-on-woke
    People will regret DeSantis not succeeding, when Trump wins the presidency later this year (as seems likely)
    Assuming Trump isn't convicted and jailed in his criminal cases by November of course, handing Biden re election on a plate.

    If he is, then DeSantis, having ruled out being Trump's VP nominee today, will likely battle it out with Haley for the 2028 GOP nomination
    If Trump gets jailed then surely there is a high risk of civil war?
    Certainly ups the risk of some reddit users who live off supplements and protein shakes being mown down by Apache attack helicopters, if that's what you mean?
    I consulted Reddit this afternoon on the vexed question of why IKEA doesn’t sell duvets or covers that fit a superking bed, despite displaying 2 singles joined together into a superking in their bed section.

    But their widest duvet is 240cm. Bastards.
    The psychological and indeed psychiatric underpinning of IKEA is profoundly subtle but there is no doubt that it is designed to drive their customers insane.
    IKEA was founded by an actual Nazi.

    So it is part of his plan to slowly torment Western Europeans until they smash all the wardrobes, and start building flat pack searchlights for recreation of the Cathedral Of Light.
    Yes, but the Poäng is the best chair ever, and the meatballs are good.
    Seriously? We're needing new chairs, so I'm interested.
    Careful

    That’s how it starts.

    First the new chairs.

    Then you realise you need a bigger living room….
    Then a bigger house …..
  • Penny Mordaunt is surely not the person to stem a 25 point deficit. So she’s sacrificing her own future prospects. Why would she do it, it just doesn’t make sense.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,159

    MikeL said:

    That is why rugby will never grow as a major professional sport.

    France won by kicking a penalty which 99% of viewers haven't got the faintest idea why it was awarded.

    You are just never going to grow wide appeal with rules like that.

    Imagine every time a foul was committed in football you had a free kick with an open goal and you got half a goal for kicking it into the open net.

    Completely bonkers.

    No arm tackle. What wasn’t clear about that?
    We never saw it on the TV and I bet none of the fans in the stadium did either.
    Comments on BBC website suggest it might have been harsh.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,867
    kle4 said:

    Jacob Rees-Mogg still does not believe Boris Johnson did anything wrong during Partygate. Goodness gracious me.

    Please God let JRM be the Portillo moment at the General Election.
    We will have plenty of options to choose such a moment from.
    If JRM loses his seat will he reinvent himself travelling the world by Sedan Chair?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,127
    Cicero said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The Sun says the plot is on.

    The Guardian says it is not.

    I wonder which paper has better sources in the Tory Party...

    Two things that are probably both true:
    1 The plot is on.
    2 The plot is ridiculous.

    Most likely outcome is that the VONC is bad enough to wound Sunak without toppling him (100, maybe 120 against).

    May limped on for six months after a similar disastrous win, which takes Sunak safely close to a late election.

    No particular insight or information, but the Conservatives are clearly in the "everything that can go wrong will go wrong" zone
    “ The plot is ridiculous.‘

    What’s ridiculous about exchanging a crap General Election result for a better one?

    Another swap out doesn’t come without cost, but the cost is more than matched by the electorates delight the hated Sunak is removed. The fact the well liked Penny replaces him only adds to the poll bounce.

    I’m 100% sure, Labour don’t want the Sunak to Penny swan event.
    I think any change will deliver an even worse result. The opposition will paste the Tories even if they selected the Archangel Gabriel. The VONC will knock 20 seats off the Tories just by happening, and if Sunak is not the answer, Mordaunt is unlikely to be any better... just another Tory...
    She's very good at opening community pantries.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,686

    FFS

    Too many Tory MPs “of colour” are happy to “pull the ladder up” behind them and not help other ethnic minorities now they have been successful, Humza Yousaf has said.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/humza-yousaf-tory-mps-of-colour-pulling-ladder-up-behind-them-drtdfsvpc

    https://www.gov.scot/about/who-runs-government/cabinet-and-ministers/
    This includes pictures of all the Scottish Ministers. Weirdly, Yousaf is the only one from an ethnic minority.

    “O, wad some Power the giftie gie us
    To see oursels as others see us!
    It wad frae monie a blunder free us,
    An' foolish notion.”
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,731
    Cicero said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The Sun says the plot is on.

    The Guardian says it is not.

    I wonder which paper has better sources in the Tory Party...

    Two things that are probably both true:
    1 The plot is on.
    2 The plot is ridiculous.

    Most likely outcome is that the VONC is bad enough to wound Sunak without toppling him (100, maybe 120 against).

    May limped on for six months after a similar disastrous win, which takes Sunak safely close to a late election.

    No particular insight or information, but the Conservatives are clearly in the "everything that can go wrong will go wrong" zone
    “ The plot is ridiculous.‘

    What’s ridiculous about exchanging a crap General Election result for a better one?

    Another swap out doesn’t come without cost, but the cost is more than matched by the electorates delight the hated Sunak is removed. The fact the well liked Penny replaces him only adds to the poll bounce.

    I’m 100% sure, Labour don’t want the Sunak to Penny swan event.
    I think any change will deliver an even worse result. The opposition will paste the Tories even if they selected the Archangel Gabriel. The VONC will knock 20 seats off the Tories just by happening, and if Sunak is not the answer, Mordaunt is unlikely to be any better... just another Tory...
    I'm not sure they'd win, but I feel like there will be at least one totally unexpected serious candidate for the post GE leadership contest.

    Obviously you will have a few who stayed in government but will try to present as the fresh new option for the future like Badenoch, a lame duck continuity candidate (probably Mordaunt), and a few people plying the 'We would have won if we had not ditched Boris/had stopped the boats' kind of approach, presumably Braverman or Patel.

    But someone with no senior role experience who will tell the Members what they want to hear about a dark changing world which is not their fault could steal the show if they are decent enough, playing up not having any experience as a plus point.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,439

    Penny Mordaunt is surely not the person to stem a 25 point deficit. So she’s sacrificing her own future prospects. Why would she do it, it just doesn’t make sense.

    It's her last chance to be PM. She will be using a zimmer next time the Tories form a government.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,867

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    TimS said:

    ohnotnow said:

    darkage said:

    HYUFD said:

    darkage said:

    isam said:

    Stocky said:

    isam said:

    In the Lord Ashcroft poll, 2019 Tories have Boris in second place behind Penny Mourdant. It doesn’t really matter that Labour and Lib Dem voters hate (fear?) other potential Tory leaders less

    What do you make of Patel and Badenoch, Isam?
    I don’t know a lot about Badenoch really. I used to quite like Patel. To be honest I don’t follow politics as obsessively as I used to, hence my only real opinion is the Tories made a mistake getting rid of Boris.

    I listened to a good interview with Suella Braverman the other day. Matt Forde’s Political Party Podcast, but that was from 2019 - she came across really well, and the hate she gets from people I disagree with on almost everything means I’d prob quite like her as PM.

    https://shows.acast.com/the-political-party/episodes/suella-braverman-replay

    I just wish Sir Keir wasn’t Labour leader, then I could happily take no interest in who wins


    Both Patel and Braverman have a massive authoritarian streak and are not afraid to go way beyond what is either necessary or decent to get their way. Neither of them deserve to be anywhere near power.

    Badenoch has not shown that streak in my mind as yet so I am willing to consider her. I don't see Mordant as being anywhere near as 'woke' as some like to claim. She strikes me as being far more of a 'live and let live' sort of politician unemcumbered by the bigotries of too many others in herparty.
    Apart from the Post Office handling, this was the red flag for me about Badenoch.

    Florida’s rightwing governor, Ron DeSantis, has backed UK business secretary Kemi Badenoch in taking on what he calls “the woke”.

    DeSantis, who is expected to challenge Donald Trump for the Republican nomination for the 2024 presidential election, met Badenoch and foreign secretary James Cleverly on a visit to London this week.

    Florida’s rightwing governor, Ron DeSantis, has backed UK business secretary Kemi Badenoch in taking on what he calls “the woke”.

    DeSantis, who is expected to challenge Donald Trump for the Republican nomination for the 2024 presidential election, met Badenoch and foreign secretary James Cleverly on a visit to London this week....

    ...Some of DeSantis’s views would be considered far outside mainstream UK politics – he recently signed a law to ban abortion in Florida after six weeks of pregnancy, for example.

    So-called parental rights legislation passed under his governorship has also led to the removal of hundreds of books from school libraries in the state.

    DeSantis insists only books that are “pornographic, violent or inappropriate” have been banned, but some school districts have responded to the new laws by removing books including The Handmaid’s Tale by Margaret Atwood and Judy Blume’s Forever from circulation.


    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/apr/30/ron-desantis-backs-kemi-badenochs-war-on-woke
    People will regret DeSantis not succeeding, when Trump wins the presidency later this year (as seems likely)
    Assuming Trump isn't convicted and jailed in his criminal cases by November of course, handing Biden re election on a plate.

    If he is, then DeSantis, having ruled out being Trump's VP nominee today, will likely battle it out with Haley for the 2028 GOP nomination
    If Trump gets jailed then surely there is a high risk of civil war?
    Certainly ups the risk of some reddit users who live off supplements and protein shakes being mown down by Apache attack helicopters, if that's what you mean?
    I consulted Reddit this afternoon on the vexed question of why IKEA doesn’t sell duvets or covers that fit a superking bed, despite displaying 2 singles joined together into a superking in their bed section.

    But their widest duvet is 240cm. Bastards.
    The psychological and indeed psychiatric underpinning of IKEA is profoundly subtle but there is no doubt that it is designed to drive their customers insane.
    IKEA was founded by an actual Nazi.

    So it is part of his plan to slowly torment Western Europeans until they smash all the wardrobes, and start building flat pack searchlights for recreation of the Cathedral Of Light.
    Yes, but the Poäng is the best chair ever, and the meatballs are good.
    Seriously? We're needing new chairs, so I'm interested.
    Careful

    That’s how it starts.

    First the new chairs.

    Then you realise you need a bigger living room….
    Then a bigger house …..

    Which will require complete remodelling. (I assume you are married.)
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,635
    Foxy said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    TimS said:

    ohnotnow said:

    darkage said:

    HYUFD said:

    darkage said:

    isam said:

    Stocky said:

    isam said:

    In the Lord Ashcroft poll, 2019 Tories have Boris in second place behind Penny Mourdant. It doesn’t really matter that Labour and Lib Dem voters hate (fear?) other potential Tory leaders less

    What do you make of Patel and Badenoch, Isam?
    I don’t know a lot about Badenoch really. I used to quite like Patel. To be honest I don’t follow politics as obsessively as I used to, hence my only real opinion is the Tories made a mistake getting rid of Boris.

    I listened to a good interview with Suella Braverman the other day. Matt Forde’s Political Party Podcast, but that was from 2019 - she came across really well, and the hate she gets from people I disagree with on almost everything means I’d prob quite like her as PM.

    https://shows.acast.com/the-political-party/episodes/suella-braverman-replay

    I just wish Sir Keir wasn’t Labour leader, then I could happily take no interest in who wins


    Both Patel and Braverman have a massive authoritarian streak and are not afraid to go way beyond what is either necessary or decent to get their way. Neither of them deserve to be anywhere near power.

    Badenoch has not shown that streak in my mind as yet so I am willing to consider her. I don't see Mordant as being anywhere near as 'woke' as some like to claim. She strikes me as being far more of a 'live and let live' sort of politician unemcumbered by the bigotries of too many others in herparty.
    Apart from the Post Office handling, this was the red flag for me about Badenoch.

    Florida’s rightwing governor, Ron DeSantis, has backed UK business secretary Kemi Badenoch in taking on what he calls “the woke”.

    DeSantis, who is expected to challenge Donald Trump for the Republican nomination for the 2024 presidential election, met Badenoch and foreign secretary James Cleverly on a visit to London this week.

    Florida’s rightwing governor, Ron DeSantis, has backed UK business secretary Kemi Badenoch in taking on what he calls “the woke”.

    DeSantis, who is expected to challenge Donald Trump for the Republican nomination for the 2024 presidential election, met Badenoch and foreign secretary James Cleverly on a visit to London this week....

    ...Some of DeSantis’s views would be considered far outside mainstream UK politics – he recently signed a law to ban abortion in Florida after six weeks of pregnancy, for example.

    So-called parental rights legislation passed under his governorship has also led to the removal of hundreds of books from school libraries in the state.

    DeSantis insists only books that are “pornographic, violent or inappropriate” have been banned, but some school districts have responded to the new laws by removing books including The Handmaid’s Tale by Margaret Atwood and Judy Blume’s Forever from circulation.


    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/apr/30/ron-desantis-backs-kemi-badenochs-war-on-woke
    People will regret DeSantis not succeeding, when Trump wins the presidency later this year (as seems likely)
    Assuming Trump isn't convicted and jailed in his criminal cases by November of course, handing Biden re election on a plate.

    If he is, then DeSantis, having ruled out being Trump's VP nominee today, will likely battle it out with Haley for the 2028 GOP nomination
    If Trump gets jailed then surely there is a high risk of civil war?
    Certainly ups the risk of some reddit users who live off supplements and protein shakes being mown down by Apache attack helicopters, if that's what you mean?
    I consulted Reddit this afternoon on the vexed question of why IKEA doesn’t sell duvets or covers that fit a superking bed, despite displaying 2 singles joined together into a superking in their bed section.

    But their widest duvet is 240cm. Bastards.
    The psychological and indeed psychiatric underpinning of IKEA is profoundly subtle but there is no doubt that it is designed to drive their customers insane.
    IKEA was founded by an actual Nazi.

    So it is part of his plan to slowly torment Western Europeans until they smash all the wardrobes, and start building flat pack searchlights for recreation of the Cathedral Of Light.
    Yes, but the Poäng is the best chair ever, and the meatballs are good.
    Seriously? We're needing new chairs, so I'm interested.
    Yep, I love my Poäng. Comfy and springy, a design classic, and great value. I bought one in 1990 and only replaced it last year.

    https://www.ikea.com/gb/en/cat/poaeng-series-07472/

    Thank you. Will consider the options - they seem to have different sub-variants.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,635

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    TimS said:

    ohnotnow said:

    darkage said:

    HYUFD said:

    darkage said:

    isam said:

    Stocky said:

    isam said:

    In the Lord Ashcroft poll, 2019 Tories have Boris in second place behind Penny Mourdant. It doesn’t really matter that Labour and Lib Dem voters hate (fear?) other potential Tory leaders less

    What do you make of Patel and Badenoch, Isam?
    I don’t know a lot about Badenoch really. I used to quite like Patel. To be honest I don’t follow politics as obsessively as I used to, hence my only real opinion is the Tories made a mistake getting rid of Boris.

    I listened to a good interview with Suella Braverman the other day. Matt Forde’s Political Party Podcast, but that was from 2019 - she came across really well, and the hate she gets from people I disagree with on almost everything means I’d prob quite like her as PM.

    https://shows.acast.com/the-political-party/episodes/suella-braverman-replay

    I just wish Sir Keir wasn’t Labour leader, then I could happily take no interest in who wins


    Both Patel and Braverman have a massive authoritarian streak and are not afraid to go way beyond what is either necessary or decent to get their way. Neither of them deserve to be anywhere near power.

    Badenoch has not shown that streak in my mind as yet so I am willing to consider her. I don't see Mordant as being anywhere near as 'woke' as some like to claim. She strikes me as being far more of a 'live and let live' sort of politician unemcumbered by the bigotries of too many others in herparty.
    Apart from the Post Office handling, this was the red flag for me about Badenoch.

    Florida’s rightwing governor, Ron DeSantis, has backed UK business secretary Kemi Badenoch in taking on what he calls “the woke”.

    DeSantis, who is expected to challenge Donald Trump for the Republican nomination for the 2024 presidential election, met Badenoch and foreign secretary James Cleverly on a visit to London this week.

    Florida’s rightwing governor, Ron DeSantis, has backed UK business secretary Kemi Badenoch in taking on what he calls “the woke”.

    DeSantis, who is expected to challenge Donald Trump for the Republican nomination for the 2024 presidential election, met Badenoch and foreign secretary James Cleverly on a visit to London this week....

    ...Some of DeSantis’s views would be considered far outside mainstream UK politics – he recently signed a law to ban abortion in Florida after six weeks of pregnancy, for example.

    So-called parental rights legislation passed under his governorship has also led to the removal of hundreds of books from school libraries in the state.

    DeSantis insists only books that are “pornographic, violent or inappropriate” have been banned, but some school districts have responded to the new laws by removing books including The Handmaid’s Tale by Margaret Atwood and Judy Blume’s Forever from circulation.


    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/apr/30/ron-desantis-backs-kemi-badenochs-war-on-woke
    People will regret DeSantis not succeeding, when Trump wins the presidency later this year (as seems likely)
    Assuming Trump isn't convicted and jailed in his criminal cases by November of course, handing Biden re election on a plate.

    If he is, then DeSantis, having ruled out being Trump's VP nominee today, will likely battle it out with Haley for the 2028 GOP nomination
    If Trump gets jailed then surely there is a high risk of civil war?
    Certainly ups the risk of some reddit users who live off supplements and protein shakes being mown down by Apache attack helicopters, if that's what you mean?
    I consulted Reddit this afternoon on the vexed question of why IKEA doesn’t sell duvets or covers that fit a superking bed, despite displaying 2 singles joined together into a superking in their bed section.

    But their widest duvet is 240cm. Bastards.
    The psychological and indeed psychiatric underpinning of IKEA is profoundly subtle but there is no doubt that it is designed to drive their customers insane.
    IKEA was founded by an actual Nazi.

    So it is part of his plan to slowly torment Western Europeans until they smash all the wardrobes, and start building flat pack searchlights for recreation of the Cathedral Of Light.
    Yes, but the Poäng is the best chair ever, and the meatballs are good.
    Seriously? We're needing new chairs, so I'm interested.
    Careful

    That’s how it starts.

    First the new chairs.

    Then you realise you need a bigger living room….
    Then a bigger house …..

    Which will require complete remodelling. (I assume you are married.)
    The chairs are moveable.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,635

    kle4 said:

    Jacob Rees-Mogg still does not believe Boris Johnson did anything wrong during Partygate. Goodness gracious me.

    Please God let JRM be the Portillo moment at the General Election.
    We will have plenty of options to choose such a moment from.
    If JRM loses his seat will he reinvent himself travelling the world by Sedan Chair?
    Round the world in 80 months?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,046

    Penny Mordaunt is surely not the person to stem a 25 point deficit. So she’s sacrificing her own future prospects. Why would she do it, it just doesn’t make sense.

    I find it very hard to judge, but I'm fairly confident that Sunak doesn't have any intrinsic qualities that give him a decent chance of improving Tory prospects, and I'm struggling to think of any other Tory MP who would obviously be a better pick than Mordaunt.

    And, also, Starmer is vulnerable. The Tories don't necessarily need to find anyone that good, just someone better than Starmer could make a fair bit of difference.

    I thought that the Tories best chance was to go for a safe pair of hands approach and build up an air of competence that they could set aside fear of the unknown with Labour. But Sunak's erratic changes of policy, and other blunders, have kiboshed any attempt to create any air of competence. He's clearly not the safe pair of hands people hoped he would be when taking over from Truss.

    So rolling the dice on a new leader is the best available option. Better Mordaunt than Patel, Braverman, Badenoch, Shapps, etc.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    FF43 said:

    TimS said:

    Not going to lie but La Marseillaise is the best national anthem in the world.

    I cannot tell you how much it pains me to say that.

    Even my loins girded there.

    You mean the words about thicko revolutionaries marching on the next town to chop everyone up with scythes? The Marseillaise is gibberish, one of the worst national anthems out there as it doesn’t represent a nation at all if it’s not repressing the life, love and philosophies are those all chopped up by scythes when all they were doing was out shopping for onions.

    The USA has the best anthem ever.
    The US anthem has the same faults as the British. Ends on a low note, no final instrumental, and is a bit dirgy throughout.

    This debate has been had countless times on PB so there’s no need to re-argue it here, but simply stated the best national anthems in descending order are:

    1. Wales - land of my fathers
    2. Germany - Deutschland Uber allés
    3. The Marseillaise
    4. South Africa - Nkosi sikelel iAfrica
    5. Norniron - Danny boy
    I love Star Spangled Banner, which is hilariously unsingable: Say can you see by d -uh ugh cough - awns early light. Having negotiated the ascending melody you then have to navigate the convoluted lyrics.

    Fratelli d'Italia is a rousing song if you have a military band. Of course they should have chosen Va Pensiero because Verdi was Mr Italy and no-one does a better tune.

    La Marseillaise is the most national anthem of them all. If you complain about the bloodthirsty lyrics you are missing the point.

    But Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau is the best. It's sincere and moving, the reason why people sing. I
    Star Spangled Banner a song fit only for Georgian drinking clubs in England.

    Godt Erhalt Franz der Kaiser, Youtube has versions in Polish, Czech and Italian.

    La Marseillaise v Fratelli d'Italia hard to decide which one has the more bloodthirsty lyrics.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,783
    There is no candidate that can prevent Armageddon for the Tories. They can't "outrun the electorate", but they don't need to, they just need to be able to outrun Richi, and Penny can do that with ease.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,731

    Penny Mordaunt is surely not the person to stem a 25 point deficit. So she’s sacrificing her own future prospects. Why would she do it, it just doesn’t make sense.

    Future prospects? She's 51, held senior positions on and off for 7 years, failed in two leadership elections and not been trusted with a decent Cabinet position (Leader of the House is not a great job to get I fear). Getting picked to rebuild after a potentially epic loss would be hard enough, but it's a lot of baggage to take into the next election even if she manages it. Even if she sticks around it is not easy to maintain a position at the top level of a party for a long time, and if the Tories get back in 4-5 years it will probably be with a lot of fresh faces.

    Unless she can pull off a Ken Clarke or (possibly) an Ed Miliband. Though the latter was a good 10 years younger when he had to go into an extended period of opposition (I forgot that he got into the Cabinet even quicker than Rishi or Truss did).
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,731
    Scott_xP said:

    There is no candidate that can prevent Armageddon for the Tories. They can't "outrun the electorate", but they don't need to, they just need to be able to outrun Richi, and Penny can do that with ease.

    That's what they said about Sunak viz a viz Truss. It seemed like it at the time, but time has not been kind to the theory.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    kle4 said:

    Dianne Abbott was reportedly offered the Whip back if she went on an anti-Semitism course.

    She refused.

    It is rather surprising to me that she has not gotten the whip back by now, same with Corbyn to an extent, but it's not clear to me that they really want it back anyway - the official reason both have not they could simply resolve, and as both have been MPs for decades perhaps they are looking for a way to go out as martyrs rather than being accused even among their fans of sticking around way too long.
    My suspicion this investigation is taking so long because the Labour Party don't have a watertight case to expel Diane Abbott. If they are offering anti-semitism courses as a face saving way out, that would also fit.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,049
    Foxy said:

    Penny Mordaunt is surely not the person to stem a 25 point deficit. So she’s sacrificing her own future prospects. Why would she do it, it just doesn’t make sense.

    It's her last chance to be PM. She will be using a zimmer next time the Tories form a government.
    That's probably true for all of them. Unless the next government seriously stuffs up, the next Conservative PM is likely not an MP yet and might not even be a candidate this time round. Consider the precedents of Blair, Cameron and Starmer.

    Basically, the public is going to want someone who can say that Johnson/Truss/Sunak were nothing to do with them.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,783
    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    There is no candidate that can prevent Armageddon for the Tories. They can't "outrun the electorate", but they don't need to, they just need to be able to outrun Richi, and Penny can do that with ease.

    That's what they said about Sunak viz a viz Truss. It seemed like it at the time, but time has not been kind to the theory.
    The relative closeness of the election is a feature in this case, not a bug...
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,591

    Scott_xP said:

    The Sun says the plot is on.

    The Guardian says it is not.

    I wonder which paper has better sources in the Tory Party...

    Two things that are probably both true:
    1 The plot is on.
    2 The plot is ridiculous.

    Most likely outcome is that the VONC is bad enough to wound Sunak without toppling him (100, maybe 120 against).

    May limped on for six months after a similar disastrous win, which takes Sunak safely close to a late election.

    No particular insight or information, but the Conservatives are clearly in the "everything that can go wrong will go wrong" zone
    “ The plot is ridiculous.‘

    What’s ridiculous about exchanging a crap General Election result for a better one?

    Another swap out doesn’t come without cost, but the cost is more than matched by the electorates delight the hated Sunak is removed. The fact the well liked Penny replaces him only adds to the poll bounce.

    I’m 100% sure, Labour don’t want the Sunak to Penny swan event.
    Mordaunt is not well-liked, she is a blank page. All most people know about her is that she held a sword at the coronation. If the Tories change leader again that would make four PMs in little more than 18 months. This is insanity.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,731
    edited March 16

    Foxy said:

    Penny Mordaunt is surely not the person to stem a 25 point deficit. So she’s sacrificing her own future prospects. Why would she do it, it just doesn’t make sense.

    It's her last chance to be PM. She will be using a zimmer next time the Tories form a government.
    That's probably true for all of them. Unless the next government seriously stuffs up, the next Conservative PM is likely not an MP yet and might not even be a candidate this time round. Consider the precedents of Blair, Cameron and Starmer.

    Basically, the public is going to want someone who can say that Johnson/Truss/Sunak were nothing to do with them.
    So someone new or someone totally unknown to the general public.

    It's time for Rehman Christi to have another go, he might gain traction this time.

    Yes, I had to look him up.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,439
    FF43 said:

    kle4 said:

    Dianne Abbott was reportedly offered the Whip back if she went on an anti-Semitism course.

    She refused.

    It is rather surprising to me that she has not gotten the whip back by now, same with Corbyn to an extent, but it's not clear to me that they really want it back anyway - the official reason both have not they could simply resolve, and as both have been MPs for decades perhaps they are looking for a way to go out as martyrs rather than being accused even among their fans of sticking around way too long.
    My suspicion this investigation is taking so long because the Labour Party don't have a watertight case to expel Diane Abbott. If they are offering anti-semitism courses as a face saving way out, that would also fit.
    Like Jezza, all she has to do is an unequivocal condemnation of anti-semitism, but that's beyond where she is willing to go.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,170
    Truman said:

    This tweet is causing quite a bit if anger on twitter.

    Its from Nazir Afzal.

    With
    @vaughangething
    becoming First Minister of Wales (congrats BTW) &
    @HumzaYousaf
    First Minister Scotland & Rishi Sunak PM & Michelle O’Neill as First Minister NI, there are now no white men leading the countries of the United Kingdom
    Representation matters, actions matter more
    10:45 AM · Mar 16, 2024
    ·
    216.1K
    Views

    https://x.com/nazirafzal/status/1768951785534767521?s=20

    So it would fall to Sir Keir Starmer to restore a white male to a leadership role in government in the UK
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,731
    Foxy said:

    FF43 said:

    kle4 said:

    Dianne Abbott was reportedly offered the Whip back if she went on an anti-Semitism course.

    She refused.

    It is rather surprising to me that she has not gotten the whip back by now, same with Corbyn to an extent, but it's not clear to me that they really want it back anyway - the official reason both have not they could simply resolve, and as both have been MPs for decades perhaps they are looking for a way to go out as martyrs rather than being accused even among their fans of sticking around way too long.
    My suspicion this investigation is taking so long because the Labour Party don't have a watertight case to expel Diane Abbott. If they are offering anti-semitism courses as a face saving way out, that would also fit.
    Like Jezza, all she has to do is an unequivocal condemnation of anti-semitism, but that's beyond where she is willing to go.
    It's that core of personal moral arrogance both have. Until the shock of the Corbyn elevation (a shock even to him I expect), it's part of why neither could cut it at the top level of the party before.

    Not that the pole climbers are inherently better people or anything, plenty of awful ones there, but though lack of principles entirely is an issue, the rigidity of Abbott and Corbyn is a part of their lack of political skill.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,554
    edited March 16
    Mordaunt made no public comment about the claims but her supporters said she was not party to, or aware of, any such plot, and that she believed the stories were an attempt by her detractors on the right to damage any potential challenge she may make in future, after a Tory election defeat.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/mar/16/conservatives-slam-bonkers-plot-to-topple-rishi-sunak-before-election

    Mordaunt's in a tricky position now - she either needs come out publicly against the idea of a plot or else resign, surely?

    "Penny, I need you to publicly denounce this plot and tell people you're behind me."

    "I'm sorry Rishi, I'm afraid I can't do that."
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,731

    kle4 said:

    Jacob Rees-Mogg still does not believe Boris Johnson did anything wrong during Partygate. Goodness gracious me.

    Please God let JRM be the Portillo moment at the General Election.
    We will have plenty of options to choose such a moment from.
    If JRM loses his seat will he reinvent himself travelling the world by Sedan Chair?
    That might actually be cool to see, so probably won't happen. Instead we'll get him bloviating on GB news about how Starmer is a communist or something.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,702
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Jacob Rees-Mogg still does not believe Boris Johnson did anything wrong during Partygate. Goodness gracious me.

    Please God let JRM be the Portillo moment at the General Election.
    We will have plenty of options to choose such a moment from.
    If JRM loses his seat will he reinvent himself travelling the world by Sedan Chair?
    That might actually be cool to see, so probably won't happen. Instead we'll get him bloviating on GB news about how Starmer is a communist or something.
    It would. If he could lean in fully to self parody I’d watch it.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,147

    kinabalu said:

    Is *anyone* on this Board planning to vote Tory at the next election?

    Chortle.

    Loads of people on here will vote Tory.
    But only two brave enough to admit it.
    Casino of course should be voting Lib Dem if he wants a “strong opposition”.
    I will vote Conservative
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,888
    Foxy said:

    Penny Mordaunt is surely not the person to stem a 25 point deficit. So she’s sacrificing her own future prospects. Why would she do it, it just doesn’t make sense.

    It's her last chance to be PM. She will be using a zimmer next time the Tories form a government.
    People were saying the Labour Party was doomed three years ago. Politics moves fast these days.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,170
    edited March 16

    Not going to lie but La Marseillaise is the best national anthem in the world.

    I cannot tell you how much it pains me to say that.

    Even my loins girded there.

    You mean the words about thicko revolutionaries marching on the next town to chop everyone up with scythes? The Marseillaise is gibberish, one of the worst national anthems out there as it doesn’t represent a nation at all if it’s not repressing the life, love and philosophies are those all chopped up by scythes when all they were doing was out shopping for onions.

    The USA has the best anthem ever.
    I always suspected you were an idiot. Now I know that you are an idiot without soul. Hearing La Marseillaise makes me wish I were French, and that’s even without the cheese, the wine, the sensible attitude to lunch and the healthy disregard for their “betters”.
    “I always suspected you were an idiot. Now I know that you are an idiot without soul.‘

    For an anthem, especially National anthem, words matter far more than tune. It’s as simple as that.

    Both Jerusalem and Land of Hope and Glory don’t count either, as both are fake and hideous. One was words, poetic and largely without meaning to you unless you shared the meaning with the poet, later set to music. The second was a conceptual piece of music utterly bastardised and vandalised by those who didn’t have a clue about the artists concept, and put pompous words to it ignorant of capturing the Yang to the ying circumstance.

    I never suspected you to be an idiot, but if you disagree with my reply you certainly are, and one devoid of understanding what makes a good anthem.
    Neither Jerusalem or Land of Hope and Glory are national anthems, although Land of Hope and Glory would be a better English national anthem than the current dirge to an irrelevant bunch of parasites.
    Much as I would like to disagree with you, you are right. The English and UK anthem is basically the royal anthem, it says nothing about England or the UK at all, it is all about wishing our monarch long life and a long reign.

    It is ridiculous it is still the English anthem when the King is also King of Wales, Scotland and NI too and not to mention Canada, NZ and Australia. So whenever we play those nations at rugby or football or cricket we are effectively singing a song that could just as well apply to their head of state too!

    It is long since past time England sporting teams had Jerusalem or Land of Hope and Glory as their anthem, which they now do only in the Commonwealth games. Leave GSTK as the UK anthem for the Olympics, F1, Davis Cup etc and for any sporting, cultural or commemorative event a member of the royal family is in attendance at. Or even just for the latter and compose a new UK anthem too
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,687
    Foxy said:

    FF43 said:

    kle4 said:

    Dianne Abbott was reportedly offered the Whip back if she went on an anti-Semitism course.

    She refused.

    It is rather surprising to me that she has not gotten the whip back by now, same with Corbyn to an extent, but it's not clear to me that they really want it back anyway - the official reason both have not they could simply resolve, and as both have been MPs for decades perhaps they are looking for a way to go out as martyrs rather than being accused even among their fans of sticking around way too long.
    My suspicion this investigation is taking so long because the Labour Party don't have a watertight case to expel Diane Abbott. If they are offering anti-semitism courses as a face saving way out, that would also fit.
    Like Jezza, all she has to do is an unequivocal condemnation of anti-semitism, but that's beyond where she is willing to go.
    And of antiziganism.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,494

    CatMan said:

    CatMan said:

    Is *anyone* on this Board planning to vote Tory at the next election?

    Chortle.

    I think Tissue Price is toying with the idea
    I'm voting Tory to keep Lord Cameron as Foreign Secretary.

    He's our greatest Foreign Secretary since Lord Palmerston.
    Was Pitt the Elder ever Foreign Secretary? If so, then this applies:

    https://youtu.be/YiYn8rNTutQ?si=9qdeD50q-9xGQlyU
    Pitt the Elder was never Foreign Secretary.
    An office that did NOT yet exist in WPE's time.

    HOWEVER, he DID serve twice as

    "The Secretary of State for the Southern Department [which] was responsible for Ireland, the Channel Islands, France, Spain, Portugal, the Old Swiss Confederacy, the states of Italy, and the Ottoman Empire. He was also responsible for the American colonies until 1768 . . ."

    source wiki
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,201
    TimS said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Jacob Rees-Mogg still does not believe Boris Johnson did anything wrong during Partygate. Goodness gracious me.

    Please God let JRM be the Portillo moment at the General Election.
    We will have plenty of options to choose such a moment from.
    If JRM loses his seat will he reinvent himself travelling the world by Sedan Chair?
    That might actually be cool to see, so probably won't happen. Instead we'll get him bloviating on GB news about how Starmer is a communist or something.
    It would. If he could lean in fully to self parody I’d watch it.
    JRM doesn't take himself too seriously and does quite a good line in self parody. I liked his Tweet when canvassing with his son, seeing a Tattoo Parlour with 'Tories out' or something similar in the window, saying 'We'll be taking our business elsewhere'.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,554

    MikeL said:

    That is why rugby will never grow as a major professional sport.

    France won by kicking a penalty which 99% of viewers haven't got the faintest idea why it was awarded.

    You are just never going to grow wide appeal with rules like that.

    Imagine every time a foul was committed in football you had a free kick with an open goal and you got half a goal for kicking it into the open net.

    Completely bonkers.

    No arm tackle. What wasn’t clear about that?
    We never saw it on the TV and I bet none of the fans in the stadium did either.
    Comments on BBC website suggest it might have been harsh.
    This is the issue with penalties in rugby. They should remove the option to kick at goal. Kick to touch, take a tap penalty, or opt for a scrum - those should be the only options.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,888
    HYUFD said:

    Not going to lie but La Marseillaise is the best national anthem in the world.

    I cannot tell you how much it pains me to say that.

    Even my loins girded there.

    You mean the words about thicko revolutionaries marching on the next town to chop everyone up with scythes? The Marseillaise is gibberish, one of the worst national anthems out there as it doesn’t represent a nation at all if it’s not repressing the life, love and philosophies are those all chopped up by scythes when all they were doing was out shopping for onions.

    The USA has the best anthem ever.
    I always suspected you were an idiot. Now I know that you are an idiot without soul. Hearing La Marseillaise makes me wish I were French, and that’s even without the cheese, the wine, the sensible attitude to lunch and the healthy disregard for their “betters”.
    “I always suspected you were an idiot. Now I know that you are an idiot without soul.‘

    For an anthem, especially National anthem, words matter far more than tune. It’s as simple as that.

    Both Jerusalem and Land of Hope and Glory don’t count either, as both are fake and hideous. One was words, poetic and largely without meaning to you unless you shared the meaning with the poet, later set to music. The second was a conceptual piece of music utterly bastardised and vandalised by those who didn’t have a clue about the artists concept, and put pompous words to it ignorant of capturing the Yang to the ying circumstance.

    I never suspected you to be an idiot, but if you disagree with my reply you certainly are, and one devoid of understanding what makes a good anthem.
    Neither Jerusalem or Land of Hope and Glory are national anthems, although Land of Hope and Glory would be a better English national anthem than the current dirge to an irrelevant bunch of parasites.
    Much as I would like to disagree with you, you are right. The English and UK anthem is basically the royal anthem, it says nothing about England or the UK at all, it is all about wishing our monarch long life and a long reign.

    It is ridiculous it is still the English anthem when the King is also King of Wales, Scotland and NI too and not to mention Canada, NZ and Australia. So whenever we play those nations at rugby or football or cricket we are effectively singing a song that could just as well apply to their head of state too!

    It is long since past time England sporting teams had Jerusalem or Land of Hope and Glory as their anthem, which they now do only in the Commonwealth games. Leave GSTK as the UK anthem for the Olympics, F1, Davis Cup etc and for any sporting, cultural or commemorative event a member of the royal family is in attendance at. Or even just for the latter and compose a new UK anthem too
    We changed our national anthem in 2022. Changing it again so soon would be unseemly.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,617
    Today I saw

    The haunting death place of the great Liberator of Latin America: Bolivar
    The oldest European building in the Americas (allegedly)
    A collection of gold and ceramics made by a people that wanted to be vampires bats, who would literally live in darkened caves and take drugs until they felt like bats: the Tayrona
    The oldest cathedral in the Americas (almost certainly)
    Lots of massive iguanas just wandering about

    And most of it was quite lame, except when it was brilliant, and that’s all fine

    This is why I love travel. Even the lame things are brilliant and the brilliant things are super brilliant
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,686

    Foxy said:

    FF43 said:

    kle4 said:

    Dianne Abbott was reportedly offered the Whip back if she went on an anti-Semitism course.

    She refused.

    It is rather surprising to me that she has not gotten the whip back by now, same with Corbyn to an extent, but it's not clear to me that they really want it back anyway - the official reason both have not they could simply resolve, and as both have been MPs for decades perhaps they are looking for a way to go out as martyrs rather than being accused even among their fans of sticking around way too long.
    My suspicion this investigation is taking so long because the Labour Party don't have a watertight case to expel Diane Abbott. If they are offering anti-semitism courses as a face saving way out, that would also fit.
    Like Jezza, all she has to do is an unequivocal condemnation of anti-semitism, but that's beyond where she is willing to go.
    And of antiziganism.
    Not sure I knew that word before. I probably should have done. Thanks.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,494

    kle4 said:

    Jacob Rees-Mogg still does not believe Boris Johnson did anything wrong during Partygate. Goodness gracious me.

    Please God let JRM be the Portillo moment at the General Election.
    We will have plenty of options to choose such a moment from.
    If JRM loses his seat will he reinvent himself travelling the world by Sedan Chair?
    HEY! What's the big idea, appropriating MY big idea??

    However, when I checked into the details, turns out the International Personhood of Sedan Chair Operators (IPOSCO) has strict rule AGAINST members being employed in hauling toxic refuse.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,309
    Sam Freedman
    @Samfr
    Love that we're back to the Lascelles Principles for the third time this Parliament

    https://twitter.com/Samfr/status/1769122573692944564
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,789
    HYUFD said:

    Truman said:

    This tweet is causing quite a bit if anger on twitter.

    Its from Nazir Afzal.

    With
    @vaughangething
    becoming First Minister of Wales (congrats BTW) &
    @HumzaYousaf
    First Minister Scotland & Rishi Sunak PM & Michelle O’Neill as First Minister NI, there are now no white men leading the countries of the United Kingdom
    Representation matters, actions matter more
    10:45 AM · Mar 16, 2024
    ·
    216.1K
    Views

    https://x.com/nazirafzal/status/1768951785534767521?s=20

    So it would fall to Sir Keir Starmer to restore a white male to a leadership role in government in the UK
    Well, reddish pink really.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    Foxy said:

    FF43 said:

    kle4 said:

    Dianne Abbott was reportedly offered the Whip back if she went on an anti-Semitism course.

    She refused.

    It is rather surprising to me that she has not gotten the whip back by now, same with Corbyn to an extent, but it's not clear to me that they really want it back anyway - the official reason both have not they could simply resolve, and as both have been MPs for decades perhaps they are looking for a way to go out as martyrs rather than being accused even among their fans of sticking around way too long.
    My suspicion this investigation is taking so long because the Labour Party don't have a watertight case to expel Diane Abbott. If they are offering anti-semitism courses as a face saving way out, that would also fit.
    Like Jezza, all she has to do is an unequivocal condemnation of anti-semitism, but that's beyond where she is willing to go.
    If she hasn't broken any Labour Party rule, and a quick look at the Labour Party rule book suggests she's correct about that, why should she submit to disciplinary action to prevent an expulsion the Party has no legal cause to make? Political parties can't just make this stuff up. They have to follow due process and provide natural justice by the law.

    Personally I probably would go through with the charade, as I would see it in those circumstances, but I'm not Diane Abbott.
  • gettingbettergettingbetter Posts: 537
    Leon said:

    Today I saw

    The haunting death place of the great Liberator of Latin America: Bolivar
    The oldest European building in the Americas (allegedly)
    A collection of gold and ceramics made by a people that wanted to be vampires bats, who would literally live in darkened caves and take drugs until they felt like bats: the Tayrona
    The oldest cathedral in the Americas (almost certainly)
    Lots of massive iguanas just wandering about

    And most of it was quite lame, except when it was brilliant, and that’s all fine

    This is why I love travel. Even the lame things are brilliant and the brilliant things are super brilliant

    Are you going to do the Lost City Trek? It's about 4-5 days walking there and back but we'll worth it.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,888
    FF43 said:

    Foxy said:

    FF43 said:

    kle4 said:

    Dianne Abbott was reportedly offered the Whip back if she went on an anti-Semitism course.

    She refused.

    It is rather surprising to me that she has not gotten the whip back by now, same with Corbyn to an extent, but it's not clear to me that they really want it back anyway - the official reason both have not they could simply resolve, and as both have been MPs for decades perhaps they are looking for a way to go out as martyrs rather than being accused even among their fans of sticking around way too long.
    My suspicion this investigation is taking so long because the Labour Party don't have a watertight case to expel Diane Abbott. If they are offering anti-semitism courses as a face saving way out, that would also fit.
    Like Jezza, all she has to do is an unequivocal condemnation of anti-semitism, but that's beyond where she is willing to go.
    If she hasn't broken any Labour Party rule, and a quick look at the Labour Party rule book suggests she's correct about that, why should she submit to disciplinary action to prevent an expulsion the Party has no legal cause to make? Political parties can't just make this stuff up. They have to follow due process and provide natural justice by the law.

    Personally I probably would go through with the charade, as I would see it in those circumstances, but I'm not Diane Abbott.
    Clubs can throw out any member, for any reason, at any time. The rule book is never overly relevant.
This discussion has been closed.