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PM for PM – politicalbetting.com

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  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,549
    edited March 16

    On Boeing, one more time. It is obvious, to me, anyway, that the problems with the 737 Max were the fault of the management.

    It is not obvious to me that the latest problem, a door falling off, is the fault of management.

    (That retired Boeing workers in Seattle might say so does not surprise me. In fact, I would be surprised if they did not say something like that.)

    Boeing have got themselves into the situation where every little issue with a plane now gets reported internationally. It's a reputation-killer. Much of the time it will be down to maintenance snafus by the airline, not the manufacturer. These things happen to planes from all manufacturers from time to time; it's just that with Boeing it's now newsworthy.

    To the extent that there was images of a mishap on Twitter reported as Boeing, when it was, in fact, an Airbus plane.

    But I have little sympathy with Boeing. They've had years of warnings about the structural and organisational problems they face, and they don't seem to be keen on addressing them.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,986
    @mikeysmith

    STORY

    Rishi Sunak chickening out of May 2 election is set to cost taxpayers £33.2 million

    Tory ex-minister says "everything was lined up" for May 2 election - but PM "bottled it".

    Another source believes Sunak dithered for so long because he wanted to go in May but was talked out of it.

    "They've given up. He wants it to be over."

    Source adds "many more" MPs are open to the idea of replacing Sunak before the election after the last fortnight.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,407
    Leon said:

    The AI I currently use at work can get me to a 65% ok first draft in about 2 minutes, as opposed to 2 hours.

    But, it does require me to feed it the key points & prompts, and then edit and correct the draft.

    It's not a mindreader.

    So does it actually save you time and/or other resources (such as your nerves) compared to just pounding it out?

    Certainly the advent of the "word processor" increased my personal productivity AND preserved (a wee bit of) my sanity, compared with typewriters no matter how fancy.
    Yeah, a bit. Sometimes I think: I want to write an article and make these five points. So it saves me doing all the boring drafting.

    It doesn't save you thinking about the five points.
    In about 2-4 years it will do all that. GPT6 or 7 or so

    And then your job is gone

    This is not personal, this is something we must all face, artists very much included
    You think everyone's job will be gone.

    This is utterly ludicrous, for obvious reasons.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,700
    Surely if looks like enough letters have gone in then Sunak just drives straight to the Palace?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,399
    The loony on the bus is talking to the couple in front of me for once.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653
    CatMan said:

    Don't give Sunak ideas
    Voter ID to be restricted to Conservative Party membership card?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,407
    Scott_xP said:

    The Tories should ditch Richi for being generally useless, but maybe they will do it for stuff like this...

    @guardian

    Revealed: Sunak flown to Leeds for private tour of Frank Hester’s office weeks after £5m donation

    The biggest problem with Sunak is that he has no political antennae for how stuff like this will look.

    Cameron did.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239
    One day there will be something like this for me. A great Sepulchre of the Flint Knapper

    Silent and pensive. Grandiose yet tranquil





    People will quietly pace the gravelled precincts, thinking of my work, my writings, my great endeavours, perhaps consoling themselves that I may be dead, yet somehow I scorned death

    An avenue of exotic trees will be hung with flags, barely shifting in the sunlit breeze, denoting all the countries where I spanked a hooker




  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,986

    The biggest problem with Sunak is that he has no political antennae for how stuff like this will look.

    He is just really, really bad at politics.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,213

    On Boeing, one more time. It is obvious, to me, anyway, that the problems with the 737 Max were the fault of the management.

    It is not obvious to me that the latest problem, a door falling off, is the fault of management.

    (That retired Boeing workers in Seattle might say so does not surprise me. In fact, I would be surprised if they did not say something like that.)

    Management setup up the bullshit separation of Spirit from Boeing so that they could manage costs in the manner of morons - demanding stuff to be cheaper, just because.

    They setup the multiple systems or recording work. And encourage a culture of doing work without properly recording it. To hide the fact that QA was being used to fix planes that were being delivered broken.

    And now it turns out that an end run, quick fix, wasn’t recorded at all? That’s what Boeing management setup. The morons.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    edited March 16

    isam said:

    Stocky said:

    isam said:

    In the Lord Ashcroft poll, 2019 Tories have Boris in second place behind Penny Mourdant. It doesn’t really matter that Labour and Lib Dem voters hate (fear?) other potential Tory leaders less

    What do you make of Patel and Badenoch, Isam?
    I don’t know a lot about Badenoch really. I used to quite like Patel. To be honest I don’t follow politics as obsessively as I used to, hence my only real opinion is the Tories made a mistake getting rid of Boris.

    I listened to a good interview with Suella Braverman the other day. Matt Forde’s Political Party Podcast, but that was from 2019 - she came across really well, and the hate she gets from people I disagree with on almost everything means I’d prob quite like her as PM.

    https://shows.acast.com/the-political-party/episodes/suella-braverman-replay

    I just wish Sir Keir wasn’t Labour leader, then I could happily take no interest in who wins


    Both Patel and Braverman have a massive authoritarian streak and are not afraid to go way beyond what is either necessary or decent to get their way. Neither of them deserve to be anywhere near power.

    Badenoch has not shown that streak in my mind as yet so I am willing to consider her. I don't see Mordant as being anywhere near as 'woke' as some like to claim. She strikes me as being far more of a 'live and let live' sort of politician unemcumbered by the bigotries of too many others in herparty.
    Apart from the Post Office handling, this was the red flag for me about Badenoch.

    Florida’s rightwing governor, Ron DeSantis, has backed UK business secretary Kemi Badenoch in taking on what he calls “the woke”.

    DeSantis, who is expected to challenge Donald Trump for the Republican nomination for the 2024 presidential election, met Badenoch and foreign secretary James Cleverly on a visit to London this week.

    Florida’s rightwing governor, Ron DeSantis, has backed UK business secretary Kemi Badenoch in taking on what he calls “the woke”.

    DeSantis, who is expected to challenge Donald Trump for the Republican nomination for the 2024 presidential election, met Badenoch and foreign secretary James Cleverly on a visit to London this week....

    ...Some of DeSantis’s views would be considered far outside mainstream UK politics – he recently signed a law to ban abortion in Florida after six weeks of pregnancy, for example.

    So-called parental rights legislation passed under his governorship has also led to the removal of hundreds of books from school libraries in the state.

    DeSantis insists only books that are “pornographic, violent or inappropriate” have been banned, but some school districts have responded to the new laws by removing books including The Handmaid’s Tale by Margaret Atwood and Judy Blume’s Forever from circulation.


    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/apr/30/ron-desantis-backs-kemi-badenochs-war-on-woke
    People will regret DeSantis not succeeding, when Trump wins the presidency later this year (as seems likely)
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,009

    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    According to Steve Richards, a politician out of step with the Party on something important will not become leader. The example he gave was Ken Clarke, whose Europhilia did not mesh with the party. From this I assume Penny's pro-trans ness, albeit rowed back, will similarly disqualify her. Other examples I have thought of include Peter Walker (one-nation Tory in the Thatcher years) and Denis Healey (pro-military Labour in the Benn years). Given this and her lacklustre speech history, I would be very surprised if they can get her past the members.

    Can't she just lie that she is in step.

    Worked for SKS
    I think they went for SKS because they wanted to win. I'm not sure the Tory party, at bottom, want to win. They don't know how to do politics any more and are a bit mizz. It's the equivalent of sulky teens whining about the world but never going outside. Casino is right about the upturn and in normal circs it would be enough but they don't seem to want it enough.
    Suspect an improving economy will do Team 2024 about as much good as it did Team 1997; not zero but not enough to change things.

    There's clearly something not right with the Conservatives at the moment, which means they really need a long holiday somewhere quiet. It's not quite that they don't want to win (or this conversation wouldn't be happening)... is it more that they have forgotten why they want to win?

    Apart from not being Rishi, what would Penny do with six months of running the country?
    They adopted Blairism and it has screwed up the economy.

    They need to go back to being conservatives.
    Indeed, apart from being softer on Brexit and a bit closer to the EU but still out of it what difference would a Starmer government make to a Sunak government? VAT on school fees, even more woke and maybe spending and taxing and building houses in the greenbelt a bit more but that is about it.

    If anything Labour has just moved to the centre with Starmer where the Tories have largely been for the last decade, even Brexit got 52% of the voters behind it. In opposition the Conservatives might move right again as they were post 1997 pre Cameron but they aren't now
    If Starmer is really a Tory, what point is there in voting actual Tory, given Starmer seems to want the job and isn't distracted by all this nonsense?
    You are forgetting that there are two intersecting dimensions to modern politics. One dimension is the traditional left right right on economic policy. There is no taste for communism or libertarianism in the majority of the electorate, so the two parties naturally align there. However, intersecting that at 90 degrees is the nationalist/internationalist dimension. And here there are clear differences with real impact on the economy and security of this country. Just wait till labour come in: there will be a large range of deals on security, trade (food and manufacturing), finance , immigration that go well beyond anything the tories would participate in. And what is more: the aim of all these deals will be to prepare the country for sm and cu in a second term. This will radically transform the framework of the economy in a way that popcons would resist tooth and nail..... thank goodness their time has passed.
    Libertarianism isnot on the edge of the left-right axis. It is on a separate axis, with authoritarianism at the other end.

    You get both left-libertarianism and right-libertarianism. The primary difference being whether social or economic freedom is priotised.

    However, these days the focus tends to be on the right wing version, exemplified by loons in the GOP and our very own The Truss.

    Perhaps because much left-libertarianism is now mainstream policy?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,950
    Leon said:

    One day there will be something like this for me. A great Sepulchre of the Flint Knapper

    Silent and pensive. Grandiose yet tranquil





    People will quietly pace the gravelled precincts, thinking of my work, my writings, my great endeavours, perhaps consoling themselves that I may be dead, yet somehow I scorned death

    An avenue of exotic trees will be hung with flags, barely shifting in the sunlit breeze, denoting all the countries where I spanked a hooker




    A phallic obelisk would be more fitting.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,814
    Penny looks OK :blush:
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,517
    Leon said:

    One day there will be something like this for me. A great Sepulchre of the Flint Knapper

    Silent and pensive. Grandiose yet tranquil





    People will quietly pace the gravelled precincts, thinking of my work, my writings, my great endeavours, perhaps consoling themselves that I may be dead, yet somehow I scorned death

    An avenue of exotic trees will be hung with flags, barely shifting in the sunlit breeze, denoting all the countries where I spanked a hooker




    It will need to be that big to contain all your PB nom de plumes ;)
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,574
    Lenny Henry was my favourite as a child. But he hasn't been funny since the mid 90s. And the BBC have given him chance after chance after chance. And then he has a chutzpah to claim the BBC won't commision him because he's black.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    darkage said:

    isam said:

    Stocky said:

    isam said:

    In the Lord Ashcroft poll, 2019 Tories have Boris in second place behind Penny Mourdant. It doesn’t really matter that Labour and Lib Dem voters hate (fear?) other potential Tory leaders less

    What do you make of Patel and Badenoch, Isam?
    I don’t know a lot about Badenoch really. I used to quite like Patel. To be honest I don’t follow politics as obsessively as I used to, hence my only real opinion is the Tories made a mistake getting rid of Boris.

    I listened to a good interview with Suella Braverman the other day. Matt Forde’s Political Party Podcast, but that was from 2019 - she came across really well, and the hate she gets from people I disagree with on almost everything means I’d prob quite like her as PM.

    https://shows.acast.com/the-political-party/episodes/suella-braverman-replay

    I just wish Sir Keir wasn’t Labour leader, then I could happily take no interest in who wins


    Both Patel and Braverman have a massive authoritarian streak and are not afraid to go way beyond what is either necessary or decent to get their way. Neither of them deserve to be anywhere near power.

    Badenoch has not shown that streak in my mind as yet so I am willing to consider her. I don't see Mordant as being anywhere near as 'woke' as some like to claim. She strikes me as being far more of a 'live and let live' sort of politician unemcumbered by the bigotries of too many others in herparty.
    Apart from the Post Office handling, this was the red flag for me about Badenoch.

    Florida’s rightwing governor, Ron DeSantis, has backed UK business secretary Kemi Badenoch in taking on what he calls “the woke”.

    DeSantis, who is expected to challenge Donald Trump for the Republican nomination for the 2024 presidential election, met Badenoch and foreign secretary James Cleverly on a visit to London this week.

    Florida’s rightwing governor, Ron DeSantis, has backed UK business secretary Kemi Badenoch in taking on what he calls “the woke”.

    DeSantis, who is expected to challenge Donald Trump for the Republican nomination for the 2024 presidential election, met Badenoch and foreign secretary James Cleverly on a visit to London this week....

    ...Some of DeSantis’s views would be considered far outside mainstream UK politics – he recently signed a law to ban abortion in Florida after six weeks of pregnancy, for example.

    So-called parental rights legislation passed under his governorship has also led to the removal of hundreds of books from school libraries in the state.

    DeSantis insists only books that are “pornographic, violent or inappropriate” have been banned, but some school districts have responded to the new laws by removing books including The Handmaid’s Tale by Margaret Atwood and Judy Blume’s Forever from circulation.


    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/apr/30/ron-desantis-backs-kemi-badenochs-war-on-woke
    People will regret DeSantis not succeeding, when Trump wins the presidency later this year (as seems likely)
    DeSantis already regrets DeSantis not succeeding . . . and will regret it even more when Trump & his Sunshine State MAGA-maniacs get finished tearing RDS a new one, from Key West to Pensacola.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,986
    Following arguably his worst week in office, senior Conservatives are now openly questioning Sunak’s authority, which seems to be ebbing away.

    Paralysis in No 10 was blamed by MPs last week for the failure, over several days, to close down the story about the Conservative Party’s biggest donor, Frank Hester, making racist remarks. The Yorkshire businessman, who has given the Tories more than £10 million, told colleagues that Labour’s Diane Abbott makes you “want to hate all black women” and that she “should be shot”. First No 10 defended him, then — with Hester unable to recall what he had said — refused to say the comments were racist.

    For others, the problem is not the decisions Sunak fails to make, but those he does. The defection of Lee Anderson, also on Monday, appointed a deputy chairman of the Conservative Party by Sunak, prompted those on the left of the party to wonder why he was ever given a platform. Others blamed No 10 for leaving Anderson with nowhere to go after taking the whip from him.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rishi-sunak-prime-minister-tories-patience-5gq7kn3q7
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,627

    Leon said:

    The AI I currently use at work can get me to a 65% ok first draft in about 2 minutes, as opposed to 2 hours.

    But, it does require me to feed it the key points & prompts, and then edit and correct the draft.

    It's not a mindreader.

    So does it actually save you time and/or other resources (such as your nerves) compared to just pounding it out?

    Certainly the advent of the "word processor" increased my personal productivity AND preserved (a wee bit of) my sanity, compared with typewriters no matter how fancy.
    Yeah, a bit. Sometimes I think: I want to write an article and make these five points. So it saves me doing all the boring drafting.

    It doesn't save you thinking about the five points.
    In about 2-4 years it will do all that. GPT6 or 7 or so

    And then your job is gone

    This is not personal, this is something we must all face, artists very much included
    You think everyone's job will be gone.

    This is utterly ludicrous, for obvious reasons.
    Some people's jobs maybe...

    ChatGPT 3.5

    User
    Write a short travel piece on Colombia and Simon Bolivar in the style of Sean Thomas of The Spectator

    ChatGPT
    Colombia: A Journey Through Bolivar's Land

    In the sultry embrace of Colombia's vibrant cities and lush landscapes, one cannot escape the palpable spirit of Simon Bolivar, the liberator whose vision shaped a nation. As I wandered through Bogotá's cobbled streets, I found myself enraptured by the echoes of history that reverberate through its colonial facades.

    From the bustling plazas to the tranquil retreats of Cartagena, Colombia's tapestry of contrasts bewitches the senses. Here, amidst the rhythmic pulse of salsa and the aroma of freshly brewed coffee, one can't help but feel the pulse of a nation steeped in resilience.

    Venturing into the verdant valleys of Boyacá, where Bolivar's army once triumphed against tyranny, I couldn't shake the sense of awe at the landscapes that bore witness to his valiant struggle. Each step felt like a pilgrimage through the annals of Colombian history, where the legacy of El Libertador lives on in the hearts of its people.

    As I stood atop the majestic peaks of the Andes, gazing out over a land of untold beauty and boundless potential, I couldn't help but reflect on Bolivar's unwavering determination to forge a nation united in liberty and justice. In Colombia, his spirit endures, a beacon of hope amidst the tumult of the modern world.

    So, as the sun sets over the Caribbean coast, casting its golden hues upon the tranquil shores of Santa Marta, I find solace in the enduring legacy of Simon Bolivar. For in Colombia, his legacy is not merely confined to the pages of history but is woven into the very fabric of a nation's identity, a testament to the enduring power of vision and sacrifice.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,517

    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    According to Steve Richards, a politician out of step with the Party on something important will not become leader. The example he gave was Ken Clarke, whose Europhilia did not mesh with the party. From this I assume Penny's pro-trans ness, albeit rowed back, will similarly disqualify her. Other examples I have thought of include Peter Walker (one-nation Tory in the Thatcher years) and Denis Healey (pro-military Labour in the Benn years). Given this and her lacklustre speech history, I would be very surprised if they can get her past the members.

    Can't she just lie that she is in step.

    Worked for SKS
    I think they went for SKS because they wanted to win. I'm not sure the Tory party, at bottom, want to win. They don't know how to do politics any more and are a bit mizz. It's the equivalent of sulky teens whining about the world but never going outside. Casino is right about the upturn and in normal circs it would be enough but they don't seem to want it enough.
    Suspect an improving economy will do Team 2024 about as much good as it did Team 1997; not zero but not enough to change things.

    There's clearly something not right with the Conservatives at the moment, which means they really need a long holiday somewhere quiet. It's not quite that they don't want to win (or this conversation wouldn't be happening)... is it more that they have forgotten why they want to win?

    Apart from not being Rishi, what would Penny do with six months of running the country?
    They adopted Blairism and it has screwed up the economy.

    They need to go back to being conservatives.
    Indeed, apart from being softer on Brexit and a bit closer to the EU but still out of it what difference would a Starmer government make to a Sunak government? VAT on school fees, even more woke and maybe spending and taxing and building houses in the greenbelt a bit more but that is about it.

    If anything Labour has just moved to the centre with Starmer where the Tories have largely been for the last decade, even Brexit got 52% of the voters behind it. In opposition the Conservatives might move right again as they were post 1997 pre Cameron but they aren't now
    If Starmer is really a Tory, what point is there in voting actual Tory, given Starmer seems to want the job and isn't distracted by all this nonsense?
    You are forgetting that there are two intersecting dimensions to modern politics. One dimension is the traditional left right right on economic policy. There is no taste for communism or libertarianism in the majority of the electorate, so the two parties naturally align there. However, intersecting that at 90 degrees is the nationalist/internationalist dimension. And here there are clear differences with real impact on the economy and security of this country. Just wait till labour come in: there will be a large range of deals on security, trade (food and manufacturing), finance , immigration that go well beyond anything the tories would participate in. And what is more: the aim of all these deals will be to prepare the country for sm and cu in a second term. This will radically transform the framework of the economy in a way that popcons would resist tooth and nail..... thank goodness their time has passed.
    Libertarianism isnot on the edge of the left-right axis. It is on a separate axis, with authoritarianism at the other end.

    You get both left-libertarianism and right-libertarianism. The primary difference being whether social or economic freedom is priotised.

    However, these days the focus tends to be on the right wing version, exemplified by loons in the GOP and our very own The Truss.

    Perhaps because much left-libertarianism is now mainstream policy?
    Not sure your last sentance is true. At least not in Britain where the State is still regarded as responsible for everything.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071
    You missed your shot Penny, let it go.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,889
    edited March 16
    Leon said:

    Can you imagine the BANTZ if Farage takes over reform and buries the Tories forever

    Oh my days. It is the right end for this wretched government

    If Farage returned as Reform leader and Reform overtook the Tories on voteshare and seats, the only way the Tories would likely survive as an independent party would ironically be PR, with maybe a coalition deal post election with Reform.

    Otherwise under FPTP, Reform, if it became the main party of the right, would merge with the Tories and take them over within a decade much as the populist Canadian Reform Party merged with the Canadian Tories ten years after their 1993 landslide defeat to form today's Conservative Party of Canada
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,952
    carnforth said:

    Lenny Henry was my favourite as a child. But he hasn't been funny since the mid 90s. And the BBC have given him chance after chance after chance. And then he has a chutzpah to claim the BBC won't commision him because he's black.

    He's primarily not a New Faces comedy turn now. He is a serious actor and a bloody good one.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071
    edited March 16
    Scott_xP said:

    @mikeysmith

    STORY

    Rishi Sunak chickening out of May 2 election is set to cost taxpayers £33.2 million

    Tory ex-minister says "everything was lined up" for May 2 election - but PM "bottled it".

    Another source believes Sunak dithered for so long because he wanted to go in May but was talked out of it.

    "They've given up. He wants it to be over."

    Source adds "many more" MPs are open to the idea of replacing Sunak before the election after the last fortnight.

    I need more context to this claim it has cost taxpayers anything - elections teams around the country read the news, they knew they might have to spring into action, but it's not as though they had everything booked and arranged for a GE in May, so what was the cost being talked about specifically?
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,895

    Surely if looks like enough letters have gone in then Sunak just drives straight to the Palace?

    Lascelles Principles. Chaz would implement it with a massive grin on his face.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,798

    isam said:

    Stocky said:

    isam said:

    In the Lord Ashcroft poll, 2019 Tories have Boris in second place behind Penny Mourdant. It doesn’t really matter that Labour and Lib Dem voters hate (fear?) other potential Tory leaders less

    What do you make of Patel and Badenoch, Isam?
    I don’t know a lot about Badenoch really. I used to quite like Patel. To be honest I don’t follow politics as obsessively as I used to, hence my only real opinion is the Tories made a mistake getting rid of Boris.

    I listened to a good interview with Suella Braverman the other day. Matt Forde’s Political Party Podcast, but that was from 2019 - she came across really well, and the hate she gets from people I disagree with on almost everything means I’d prob quite like her as PM.

    https://shows.acast.com/the-political-party/episodes/suella-braverman-replay

    I just wish Sir Keir wasn’t Labour leader, then I could happily take no interest in who wins


    Both Patel and Braverman have a massive authoritarian streak and are not afraid to go way beyond what is either necessary or decent to get their way. Neither of them deserve to be anywhere near power.

    Badenoch has not shown that streak in my mind as yet so I am willing to consider her. I don't see Mordant as being anywhere near as 'woke' as some like to claim. She strikes me as being far more of a 'live and let live' sort of politician unemcumbered by the bigotries of too many others in herparty.
    Apart from the Post Office handling, this was the red flag for me about Badenoch.

    Florida’s rightwing governor, Ron DeSantis, has backed UK business secretary Kemi Badenoch in taking on what he calls “the woke”.

    DeSantis, who is expected to challenge Donald Trump for the Republican nomination for the 2024 presidential election, met Badenoch and foreign secretary James Cleverly on a visit to London this week.

    Florida’s rightwing governor, Ron DeSantis, has backed UK business secretary Kemi Badenoch in taking on what he calls “the woke”.

    DeSantis, who is expected to challenge Donald Trump for the Republican nomination for the 2024 presidential election, met Badenoch and foreign secretary James Cleverly on a visit to London this week....

    ...Some of DeSantis’s views would be considered far outside mainstream UK politics – he recently signed a law to ban abortion in Florida after six weeks of pregnancy, for example.

    So-called parental rights legislation passed under his governorship has also led to the removal of hundreds of books from school libraries in the state.

    DeSantis insists only books that are “pornographic, violent or inappropriate” have been banned, but some school districts have responded to the new laws by removing books including The Handmaid’s Tale by Margaret Atwood and Judy Blume’s Forever from circulation.


    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/apr/30/ron-desantis-backs-kemi-badenochs-war-on-woke
    Surely A Handsmaid's Tale is an essential guidebook for your modern, forward thinking Republican in the same way so many dictators took instruction from 1984?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071
    Scott_xP said:

    Following arguably his worst week in office, senior Conservatives are now openly questioning Sunak’s authority, which seems to be ebbing away.

    Paralysis in No 10 was blamed by MPs last week for the failure, over several days, to close down the story about the Conservative Party’s biggest donor, Frank Hester, making racist remarks. The Yorkshire businessman, who has given the Tories more than £10 million, told colleagues that Labour’s Diane Abbott makes you “want to hate all black women” and that she “should be shot”. First No 10 defended him, then — with Hester unable to recall what he had said — refused to say the comments were racist.

    For others, the problem is not the decisions Sunak fails to make, but those he does. The defection of Lee Anderson, also on Monday, appointed a deputy chairman of the Conservative Party by Sunak, prompted those on the left of the party to wonder why he was ever given a platform. Others blamed No 10 for leaving Anderson with nowhere to go after taking the whip from him.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rishi-sunak-prime-minister-tories-patience-5gq7kn3q7

    Anderson was a ticking time bomb. Like or hate him his brand is the guy who mouths off about things, this was bound to happen.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071

    Leon said:

    One day there will be something like this for me. A great Sepulchre of the Flint Knapper

    Silent and pensive. Grandiose yet tranquil





    People will quietly pace the gravelled precincts, thinking of my work, my writings, my great endeavours, perhaps consoling themselves that I may be dead, yet somehow I scorned death

    An avenue of exotic trees will be hung with flags, barely shifting in the sunlit breeze, denoting all the countries where I spanked a hooker




    A phallic obelisk would be more fitting.
    Those can prove underwhelming in person...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,889
    darkage said:

    isam said:

    Stocky said:

    isam said:

    In the Lord Ashcroft poll, 2019 Tories have Boris in second place behind Penny Mourdant. It doesn’t really matter that Labour and Lib Dem voters hate (fear?) other potential Tory leaders less

    What do you make of Patel and Badenoch, Isam?
    I don’t know a lot about Badenoch really. I used to quite like Patel. To be honest I don’t follow politics as obsessively as I used to, hence my only real opinion is the Tories made a mistake getting rid of Boris.

    I listened to a good interview with Suella Braverman the other day. Matt Forde’s Political Party Podcast, but that was from 2019 - she came across really well, and the hate she gets from people I disagree with on almost everything means I’d prob quite like her as PM.

    https://shows.acast.com/the-political-party/episodes/suella-braverman-replay

    I just wish Sir Keir wasn’t Labour leader, then I could happily take no interest in who wins


    Both Patel and Braverman have a massive authoritarian streak and are not afraid to go way beyond what is either necessary or decent to get their way. Neither of them deserve to be anywhere near power.

    Badenoch has not shown that streak in my mind as yet so I am willing to consider her. I don't see Mordant as being anywhere near as 'woke' as some like to claim. She strikes me as being far more of a 'live and let live' sort of politician unemcumbered by the bigotries of too many others in herparty.
    Apart from the Post Office handling, this was the red flag for me about Badenoch.

    Florida’s rightwing governor, Ron DeSantis, has backed UK business secretary Kemi Badenoch in taking on what he calls “the woke”.

    DeSantis, who is expected to challenge Donald Trump for the Republican nomination for the 2024 presidential election, met Badenoch and foreign secretary James Cleverly on a visit to London this week.

    Florida’s rightwing governor, Ron DeSantis, has backed UK business secretary Kemi Badenoch in taking on what he calls “the woke”.

    DeSantis, who is expected to challenge Donald Trump for the Republican nomination for the 2024 presidential election, met Badenoch and foreign secretary James Cleverly on a visit to London this week....

    ...Some of DeSantis’s views would be considered far outside mainstream UK politics – he recently signed a law to ban abortion in Florida after six weeks of pregnancy, for example.

    So-called parental rights legislation passed under his governorship has also led to the removal of hundreds of books from school libraries in the state.

    DeSantis insists only books that are “pornographic, violent or inappropriate” have been banned, but some school districts have responded to the new laws by removing books including The Handmaid’s Tale by Margaret Atwood and Judy Blume’s Forever from circulation.


    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/apr/30/ron-desantis-backs-kemi-badenochs-war-on-woke
    People will regret DeSantis not succeeding, when Trump wins the presidency later this year (as seems likely)
    Assuming Trump isn't convicted and jailed in his criminal cases by November of course, handing Biden re election on a plate.

    If he is, then DeSantis, having ruled out being Trump's VP nominee today, will likely battle it out with Haley for the 2028 GOP nomination
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239

    Leon said:

    One day there will be something like this for me. A great Sepulchre of the Flint Knapper

    Silent and pensive. Grandiose yet tranquil





    People will quietly pace the gravelled precincts, thinking of my work, my writings, my great endeavours, perhaps consoling themselves that I may be dead, yet somehow I scorned death

    An avenue of exotic trees will be hung with flags, barely shifting in the sunlit breeze, denoting all the countries where I spanked a hooker




    It will need to be that big to contain all your PB nom de plumes ;)
    I’m not DEMANDING a memorial like this. That would be presumptuous. Just trying to give some pointers - maybe use this place as a kind of template, combined with something like the Arc de Triomphe

    I imagine - I cannot say for sure - a lot of people will want to weep. So there should be a small quiet room set aside for them, with tissues; this could also be used by people who want to wank over my private porn collection

    And perhaps a statue of me, like this, but offering a butt plug instead of some weird stupid thing that looks like a fucking custard apple, South Americans are such twats





    These are just my initial sombre thoughts, memento mori of a kind, as I confront the cenotaph of The Liberator
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,986
    Not even Richi thinks he can remain PM till the Autumn...

    Sunak himself wobbled last week about the plan, drawn up with Levido, to hold the election in November. “What has been occupying Rishi in particular is that he doesn’t think this whole situation is sustainable till November,” a Tory close to No 10 said. “He thinks it’s an ungovernable party and he might have to go in June or July, simply because it all collapses. They want the election to be in November.”
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,354
    Scott_xP said:

    @mikeysmith

    STORY

    Rishi Sunak chickening out of May 2 election is set to cost taxpayers £33.2 million

    Tory ex-minister says "everything was lined up" for May 2 election - but PM "bottled it".

    Another source believes Sunak dithered for so long because he wanted to go in May but was talked out of it.

    "They've given up. He wants it to be over."

    Source adds "many more" MPs are open to the idea of replacing Sunak before the election after the last fortnight.

    Dorries really is bitter, isn't she? So is Mogg.
    dixiedean said:

    The loony on the bus is talking to the couple in front of me for once.

    What is Michael Fabricant doing on a bus?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,620
    FYI - I am rather busy tomorrow, so will not have much chance to comment, but the choice of the photo for the morning thread is my revenge for all of you have ever

    1) Said rude things about David Cameron ever

    and/or

    2) Put pineapple on pizza
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,354
    kle4 said:

    You missed your shot Penny, let it go.

    Stroke, shurely?
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,895
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Can you imagine the BANTZ if Farage takes over reform and buries the Tories forever

    Oh my days. It is the right end for this wretched government

    If Farage returned as Reform leader and Reform overtook the Tories on voteshare and seats, the only way the Tories would likely survive as an independent party would ironically be PR, with maybe a coalition deal post election with Reform.

    Otherwise under FPTP, Reform, if it became the main party of the right, would merge with the Tories and take them over within a decade much as the populist Canadian Reform Party merged with the Canadian Tories ten years after their 1993 landslide defeat to form today's Conservative Party of Canada
    No party has the absolute right to exist, never mind be in power...
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,986
    kle4 said:

    I need more context to this claim it has cost taxpayers anything - elections teams around the country read the news, they knew they might have to spring into action, but it's not as though they had everything booked and arranged for a GE in May, so what was the cost being talked about specifically?

    They have everything booked for an election May already, and now they will have to book everything again for another election on another date.

    That costs money...
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Is *anyone* on this Board planning to vote Tory at the next election?

    Chortle.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,814

    Is *anyone* on this Board planning to vote Tory at the next election?

    Chortle.

    Casino
    HYUFD

    er...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071
    edited March 16
    Scott_xP said:

    kle4 said:

    I need more context to this claim it has cost taxpayers anything - elections teams around the country read the news, they knew they might have to spring into action, but it's not as though they had everything booked and arranged for a GE in May, so what was the cost being talked about specifically?

    They have everything booked for an election May already, and now they will have to book everything again for another election on another date.

    That costs money...
    Well I can tell you for a fact (as I know many people working in Electons) that they did not all have everything booked for a May election, they do not book out venues so widely on unconfirmed dates based on media reporting, so if that is the cost being talked about it must be calculated based on a proportion of them doing so, and would not even be Rishi's fault because no one officially said the election was on 2 May.

    I don't pull my punches on criticising Rishi, but councils should not have been making definitive decisions based on media reporting - they needed to be ready to act as soon as it was confirmed, and they are as prepared as they can be for one to be called at any time (the current worry is that it might be June/July instead) but that is not the same thing. It's also why elections staff mostly hated the repeal of the FTPA, because the uncertainty has always been an issue.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,798

    Is *anyone* on this Board planning to vote Tory at the next election?

    Chortle.

    Casino
    HYUFD

    er...
    I probably will but it will be a vote against the SNP rather than a vote for the Tories.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,700
    Scott_xP said:

    @mikeysmith

    STORY

    Rishi Sunak chickening out of May 2 election is set to cost taxpayers £33.2 million

    Tory ex-minister says "everything was lined up" for May 2 election - but PM "bottled it".

    Another source believes Sunak dithered for so long because he wanted to go in May but was talked out of it.

    "They've given up. He wants it to be over."

    Source adds "many more" MPs are open to the idea of replacing Sunak before the election after the last fortnight.

    Why has it cost taxpayers £33m?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,009
    Well I hope some PBers were able to make a few bob on my 2-0 to City prediction.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,243
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    The AI I currently use at work can get me to a 65% ok first draft in about 2 minutes, as opposed to 2 hours.

    But, it does require me to feed it the key points & prompts, and then edit and correct the draft.

    It's not a mindreader.

    So does it actually save you time and/or other resources (such as your nerves) compared to just pounding it out?

    Certainly the advent of the "word processor" increased my personal productivity AND preserved (a wee bit of) my sanity, compared with typewriters no matter how fancy.
    Yeah, a bit. Sometimes I think: I want to write an article and make these five points. So it saves me doing all the boring drafting.

    It doesn't save you thinking about the five points.
    In about 2-4 years it will do all that. GPT6 or 7 or so

    And then your job is gone

    This is not personal, this is something we must all face, artists very much included
    You think everyone's job will be gone.

    This is utterly ludicrous, for obvious reasons.
    Some people's jobs maybe...

    ChatGPT 3.5

    User
    Write a short travel piece on Colombia and Simon Bolivar in the style of Sean Thomas of The Spectator

    ChatGPT
    Colombia: A Journey Through Bolivar's Land

    In the sultry embrace of Colombia's vibrant cities and lush landscapes, one cannot escape the palpable spirit of Simon Bolivar, the liberator whose vision shaped a nation. As I wandered through Bogotá's cobbled streets, I found myself enraptured by the echoes of history that reverberate through its colonial facades.

    From the bustling plazas to the tranquil retreats of Cartagena, Colombia's tapestry of contrasts bewitches the senses. Here, amidst the rhythmic pulse of salsa and the aroma of freshly brewed coffee, one can't help but feel the pulse of a nation steeped in resilience.

    Venturing into the verdant valleys of Boyacá, where Bolivar's army once triumphed against tyranny, I couldn't shake the sense of awe at the landscapes that bore witness to his valiant struggle. Each step felt like a pilgrimage through the annals of Colombian history, where the legacy of El Libertador lives on in the hearts of its people.

    As I stood atop the majestic peaks of the Andes, gazing out over a land of untold beauty and boundless potential, I couldn't help but reflect on Bolivar's unwavering determination to forge a nation united in liberty and justice. In Colombia, his spirit endures, a beacon of hope amidst the tumult of the modern world.

    So, as the sun sets over the Caribbean coast, casting its golden hues upon the tranquil shores of Santa Marta, I find solace in the enduring legacy of Simon Bolivar. For in Colombia, his legacy is not merely confined to the pages of history but is woven into the very fabric of a nation's identity, a testament to the enduring power of vision and sacrifice.
    Whatever happened to "Feather-footed through the plashy fen..."
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,417

    Stocky said:

    Leon said:

    ALIENS!!!

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    They adopted Blairism and it has screwed up the economy.

    They need to go back to being conservatives.

    They adopted UKIPism and it has screwed up the Country
    Other than leaving the EU, which is also Labour party policy, in what way have they adopted UKIPism and how has it screwed up the country?
    Leaving the EU is not Labour policy.
    They should have a policy to rejoin then LEAVE ALL OVER AGAIN

    We all enjoyed it the first time. Absolute hoot
    Brexit has normalised in the last 9-12 months in a way I didn't expect it to do.

    We may well have a closer relationship with the EU in future, but it won't be in the EU.
    A lot of people living with the problems it’s caused. People hunting for an Irish ancestor to enable them to work in the EU.
    Then there’s the totally unnecessary, indeed savage, withdrawal from the Erasmus scheme.
    My daughter is working in France now. No need for Irish ancestor. Has a working visa which is about to get extended to three years meaning she can go back to work if she wants to for the next two winters with ease.
    The terms for staying in Erasmus were punitive, and I am still hosting on average four or five overseas exchange students each year, and our course sends out around 10 each year all around the world. Erasmus isn’t everything in the world of student exchange.
    Glad to read that. I’m all in favour of young people getting experience of other countries from living there, not just being tourists.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,986
    kle4 said:

    Well I can tell you for a fact (as I know many people working in Electons) that they did not all have everything booked for a May election

    There are elections in May

    Better get their skates on...
  • BournvilleBournville Posts: 309
    Scott_xP said:

    kle4 said:

    I need more context to this claim it has cost taxpayers anything - elections teams around the country read the news, they knew they might have to spring into action, but it's not as though they had everything booked and arranged for a GE in May, so what was the cost being talked about specifically?

    They have everything booked for an election May already, and now they will have to book everything again for another election on another date.

    That costs money...
    That isn't how it works. Various local authorities will already have booked venues for local and Mayoral election verification/counts, and hired temporary staff for May 2nd/3rd/4th. Having a general election on the same day means validating and counting more ballots - so you'd need to hire more staff and book the venues for longer, which would be expensive at short notice.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Ron DiSantis "ruling out" running as Trump's VP running mate in 2024?

    Ha! Ha! Ha!

    About as likely as Trump selecting Nigel Farage, albeit for different reason(s).

    One being fact the RDS and DJT inhabit/infest the same state (see US Constitution, Amendment XII).
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,068
    kle4 said:

    You missed your shot Penny, let it go.

    ...the cold never bothered her anyway.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    One day there will be something like this for me. A great Sepulchre of the Flint Knapper

    Silent and pensive. Grandiose yet tranquil





    People will quietly pace the gravelled precincts, thinking of my work, my writings, my great endeavours, perhaps consoling themselves that I may be dead, yet somehow I scorned death

    An avenue of exotic trees will be hung with flags, barely shifting in the sunlit breeze, denoting all the countries where I spanked a hooker




    It will need to be that big to contain all your PB nom de plumes ;)
    I’m not DEMANDING a memorial like this. That would be presumptuous. Just trying to give some pointers - maybe use this place as a kind of template, combined with something like the Arc de Triomphe

    I imagine - I cannot say for sure - a lot of people will want to weep. So there should be a small quiet room set aside for them, with tissues; this could also be used by people who want to wank over my private porn collection

    And perhaps a statue of me, like this, but offering a butt plug instead of some weird stupid thing that looks like a fucking custard apple, South Americans are such twats





    These are just my initial sombre thoughts, memento mori of a kind, as I confront the cenotaph of The Liberator
    Couldn’t we just have you preserved like Jeremy Bentham. People could visit our Alma mater and at one end of the cloister would be the promoter of Utilitarianism and opposite could be the promoter of Totalitarianism.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071
    edited March 16
    Scott_xP said:

    kle4 said:

    Well I can tell you for a fact (as I know many people working in Electons) that they did not all have everything booked for a May election

    There are elections in May

    Better get their skates on...
    Most places do not have elections in May (or have limited elections like PCC elections, which will not require the level of staffing or the same number of big count venues, though polling stations will usually be similar). If you believe that all councils all over the UK are (or should be) fully booked up for a GE level election in May, you are just plain wrong.

    It would not make any fiscal sense to do that, which is why that mooted cost will not be correct as they would not sign off on such based on media speculation. Believe me, the logistical difficulties of booking up council wide venues and resources for May elections now versus, say, 1-2 months ago, would not be massive, as it is still very little time either way.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,814

    FYI - I am rather busy tomorrow, so will not have much chance to comment, but the choice of the photo for the morning thread is my revenge for all of you have ever

    1) Said rude things about David Cameron ever

    and/or

    2) Put pineapple on pizza

    1) Lord Cameron = Unelected Has-Been

    2) Banana and strawberry are infinitely worse toppings than pineapple.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239
    There’s also massive great fucking iguanas everywhere as well. I want them too. Green ones like here


  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,986

    Having a general election on the same day means validating and counting more ballots - so you'd need to hire more staff and book the venues for longer, which would be expensive at short notice.

    Still much cheaper than doing it twice
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,814
    Leon said:

    There’s also massive great fucking iguanas everywhere as well. I want them too. Green ones like here


    "Sharks Iguanas with fricking laser beams on their heads!"
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071
    edited March 16

    Scott_xP said:

    kle4 said:

    I need more context to this claim it has cost taxpayers anything - elections teams around the country read the news, they knew they might have to spring into action, but it's not as though they had everything booked and arranged for a GE in May, so what was the cost being talked about specifically?

    They have everything booked for an election May already, and now they will have to book everything again for another election on another date.

    That costs money...
    That isn't how it works. Various local authorities will already have booked venues for local and Mayoral election verification/counts, and hired temporary staff for May 2nd/3rd/4th. Having a general election on the same day means validating and counting more ballots - so you'd need to hire more staff and book the venues for longer, which would be expensive at short notice.
    Without being a complete expert at the logistics of elections I have participated in various different roles at many different types of elections and know people in the field, and one thing that has become very apparent to me over the years is that many political experts, and even the elected, actually have little understanding of the logistical side of things.

    We still see the occasional pundit at an election think, for instance, that putting a tick instead of a cross in a box would not be valid, to take a very basic example.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,998
    Does this surprise you?

    'In an attempt to clean up comments he made this week about “cutting” entitlement programs, former president Donald Trump has vowed in recent days that he would reduce spending on Social Security and Medicare by targeting waste and fraud in those programs.

    However, a review of Trump’s record shows that, in the closing months of his presidency, he used his clemency powers to help several people convicted in major Medicare fraud cases, including commuting the sentence of a man the Justice Department had described as having “orchestrated one of the largest health care fraud schemes in U.S. history.”'
    source$:https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/03/16/trump-clemency-medicare-fraud/

    If so, you haven’t been paying attention. (And, no, you can’t solve the long-term spending problems with Social Security and Medicare by cutting waste and fraud.)

    Jim Miller (cf0b46) — 3/16/2024 @ 12:23 pm
  • TrumanTruman Posts: 279
    Scott_xP said:

    Not even Richi thinks he can remain PM till the Autumn...

    Sunak himself wobbled last week about the plan, drawn up with Levido, to hold the election in November. “What has been occupying Rishi in particular is that he doesn’t think this whole situation is sustainable till November,” a Tory close to No 10 said. “He thinks it’s an ungovernable party and he might have to go in June or July, simply because it all collapses. They want the election to be in November.”

    Poor Rishi must envy guys like Putin with their strong and stable mandates and love from the people.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,058

    Is *anyone* on this Board planning to vote Tory at the next election?

    Chortle.

    I think Tissue Price is toying with the idea
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,798

    Does this surprise you?

    'In an attempt to clean up comments he made this week about “cutting” entitlement programs, former president Donald Trump has vowed in recent days that he would reduce spending on Social Security and Medicare by targeting waste and fraud in those programs.

    However, a review of Trump’s record shows that, in the closing months of his presidency, he used his clemency powers to help several people convicted in major Medicare fraud cases, including commuting the sentence of a man the Justice Department had described as having “orchestrated one of the largest health care fraud schemes in U.S. history.”'
    source$:https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/03/16/trump-clemency-medicare-fraud/

    If so, you haven’t been paying attention. (And, no, you can’t solve the long-term spending problems with Social Security and Medicare by cutting waste and fraud.)

    Jim Miller (cf0b46) — 3/16/2024 @ 12:23 pm

    This is quite an amusing piece destroying Trump lies: https://youtu.be/5xCOQqARqa8
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,620
    CatMan said:

    Is *anyone* on this Board planning to vote Tory at the next election?

    Chortle.

    I think Tissue Price is toying with the idea
    I'm voting Tory to keep Lord Cameron as Foreign Secretary.

    He's our greatest Foreign Secretary since Lord Palmerston.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071
    edited March 16
    Scott_xP said:

    Having a general election on the same day means validating and counting more ballots - so you'd need to hire more staff and book the venues for longer, which would be expensive at short notice.

    Still much cheaper than doing it twice
    To a degree. But it simply isn't the case that everyone was prepared for some kind of election in May regardless which they can ramp up, which appears to be what the claim is based on - that it has cost money, not that it theoretically could. The PCC elections would have helped a bit as those are happening all over the place, but the claim itself just doesn't add up because local council's are far too cash strapped to set up for a May GE which was not even confirmed to be taking place.

    They don't have the level of funding to spend millions on that. They'd be ready to act, and face costs for last minute stuff, but anything prepared in 2024 would still have been last minute.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,009

    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    According to Steve Richards, a politician out of step with the Party on something important will not become leader. The example he gave was Ken Clarke, whose Europhilia did not mesh with the party. From this I assume Penny's pro-trans ness, albeit rowed back, will similarly disqualify her. Other examples I have thought of include Peter Walker (one-nation Tory in the Thatcher years) and Denis Healey (pro-military Labour in the Benn years). Given this and her lacklustre speech history, I would be very surprised if they can get her past the members.

    Can't she just lie that she is in step.

    Worked for SKS
    I think they went for SKS because they wanted to win. I'm not sure the Tory party, at bottom, want to win. They don't know how to do politics any more and are a bit mizz. It's the equivalent of sulky teens whining about the world but never going outside. Casino is right about the upturn and in normal circs it would be enough but they don't seem to want it enough.
    Suspect an improving economy will do Team 2024 about as much good as it did Team 1997; not zero but not enough to change things.

    There's clearly something not right with the Conservatives at the moment, which means they really need a long holiday somewhere quiet. It's not quite that they don't want to win (or this conversation wouldn't be happening)... is it more that they have forgotten why they want to win?

    Apart from not being Rishi, what would Penny do with six months of running the country?
    They adopted Blairism and it has screwed up the economy.

    They need to go back to being conservatives.
    Indeed, apart from being softer on Brexit and a bit closer to the EU but still out of it what difference would a Starmer government make to a Sunak government? VAT on school fees, even more woke and maybe spending and taxing and building houses in the greenbelt a bit more but that is about it.

    If anything Labour has just moved to the centre with Starmer where the Tories have largely been for the last decade, even Brexit got 52% of the voters behind it. In opposition the Conservatives might move right again as they were post 1997 pre Cameron but they aren't now
    If Starmer is really a Tory, what point is there in voting actual Tory, given Starmer seems to want the job and isn't distracted by all this nonsense?
    You are forgetting that there are two intersecting dimensions to modern politics. One dimension is the traditional left right right on economic policy. There is no taste for communism or libertarianism in the majority of the electorate, so the two parties naturally align there. However, intersecting that at 90 degrees is the nationalist/internationalist dimension. And here there are clear differences with real impact on the economy and security of this country. Just wait till labour come in: there will be a large range of deals on security, trade (food and manufacturing), finance , immigration that go well beyond anything the tories would participate in. And what is more: the aim of all these deals will be to prepare the country for sm and cu in a second term. This will radically transform the framework of the economy in a way that popcons would resist tooth and nail..... thank goodness their time has passed.
    Libertarianism isnot on the edge of the left-right axis. It is on a separate axis, with authoritarianism at the other end.

    You get both left-libertarianism and right-libertarianism. The primary difference being whether social or economic freedom is priotised.

    However, these days the focus tends to be on the right wing version, exemplified by loons in the GOP and our very own The Truss.

    Perhaps because much left-libertarianism is now mainstream policy?
    Not sure your last sentance is true. At least not in Britain where the State is still regarded as responsible for everything.
    I was thinking, for example, of the state no longer caring what goes on between consenting adults. Whereas not so long ago the state was locking men in prison.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,009
    TOPPING said:

    carnforth said:

    Lenny Henry was my favourite as a child. But he hasn't been funny since the mid 90s. And the BBC have given him chance after chance after chance. And then he has a chutzpah to claim the BBC won't commision him because he's black.

    He's primarily not a New Faces comedy turn now. He is a serious actor and a bloody good one.
    But it's called Comic Relief, not Serious Relief.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071
    CatMan said:

    Is *anyone* on this Board planning to vote Tory at the next election?

    Chortle.

    I think Tissue Price is toying with the idea
    I bet there's plenty of Tory MPs who don't plan to however. They are looking forward to Reform doing well too.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,407
    @Gardenwalker Yeop, I have no desire to give SKS a free pass - and I think it's good for the government and the country to have a strong opposition.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,837
    Latest housing news: first time buyers having to be propped up by parental gifts at a record high, planning permissions for new builds at a record low, and IIRC prices have resumed their relentless upward trajectory since late last year. The ongoing socio-economic catastrophe continues, although the Boomers will be delighted and that's all the useless politicians really care about.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,986
    kle4 said:

    But it simply isn't the case that everyone was prepared for some kind of election in May regardless which they can ramp up, which appears to be what the claim is based on - that it has cost money

    No

    Having the GE on the same day as the locals would cost X

    Having the GE on a different day will cost Y

    The claim is that Y is greater than X, to the tune of 33 mill

    Richi has ruled out X, therefore it will cost taxpayers Y
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239

    @Gardenwalker Yeop, I have no desire to give SKS a free pass - and I think it's good for the government and the country to have a strong opposition.

    Yes. And it should be Reform under Farage
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653
    edited March 16

    Ron DiSantis "ruling out" running as Trump's VP running mate in 2024?

    Ha! Ha! Ha!

    About as likely as Trump selecting Nigel Farage, albeit for different reason(s).

    One being fact the RDS and DJT inhabit/infest the same state (see US Constitution, Amendment XII).

    Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson is available. Born in Upper East Side Manhattan, a natural-born citizen of the United States (well ok but I am sure Trump could quickly make him a citizen, indeed the SC would probably rule he is so anyway if Trump asked).
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    HYUFD said:

    darkage said:

    isam said:

    Stocky said:

    isam said:

    In the Lord Ashcroft poll, 2019 Tories have Boris in second place behind Penny Mourdant. It doesn’t really matter that Labour and Lib Dem voters hate (fear?) other potential Tory leaders less

    What do you make of Patel and Badenoch, Isam?
    I don’t know a lot about Badenoch really. I used to quite like Patel. To be honest I don’t follow politics as obsessively as I used to, hence my only real opinion is the Tories made a mistake getting rid of Boris.

    I listened to a good interview with Suella Braverman the other day. Matt Forde’s Political Party Podcast, but that was from 2019 - she came across really well, and the hate she gets from people I disagree with on almost everything means I’d prob quite like her as PM.

    https://shows.acast.com/the-political-party/episodes/suella-braverman-replay

    I just wish Sir Keir wasn’t Labour leader, then I could happily take no interest in who wins


    Both Patel and Braverman have a massive authoritarian streak and are not afraid to go way beyond what is either necessary or decent to get their way. Neither of them deserve to be anywhere near power.

    Badenoch has not shown that streak in my mind as yet so I am willing to consider her. I don't see Mordant as being anywhere near as 'woke' as some like to claim. She strikes me as being far more of a 'live and let live' sort of politician unemcumbered by the bigotries of too many others in herparty.
    Apart from the Post Office handling, this was the red flag for me about Badenoch.

    Florida’s rightwing governor, Ron DeSantis, has backed UK business secretary Kemi Badenoch in taking on what he calls “the woke”.

    DeSantis, who is expected to challenge Donald Trump for the Republican nomination for the 2024 presidential election, met Badenoch and foreign secretary James Cleverly on a visit to London this week.

    Florida’s rightwing governor, Ron DeSantis, has backed UK business secretary Kemi Badenoch in taking on what he calls “the woke”.

    DeSantis, who is expected to challenge Donald Trump for the Republican nomination for the 2024 presidential election, met Badenoch and foreign secretary James Cleverly on a visit to London this week....

    ...Some of DeSantis’s views would be considered far outside mainstream UK politics – he recently signed a law to ban abortion in Florida after six weeks of pregnancy, for example.

    So-called parental rights legislation passed under his governorship has also led to the removal of hundreds of books from school libraries in the state.

    DeSantis insists only books that are “pornographic, violent or inappropriate” have been banned, but some school districts have responded to the new laws by removing books including The Handmaid’s Tale by Margaret Atwood and Judy Blume’s Forever from circulation.


    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/apr/30/ron-desantis-backs-kemi-badenochs-war-on-woke
    People will regret DeSantis not succeeding, when Trump wins the presidency later this year (as seems likely)
    Assuming Trump isn't convicted and jailed in his criminal cases by November of course, handing Biden re election on a plate.

    If he is, then DeSantis, having ruled out being Trump's VP nominee today, will likely battle it out with Haley for the 2028 GOP nomination
    If Trump gets jailed then surely there is a high risk of civil war?
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,058

    CatMan said:

    Is *anyone* on this Board planning to vote Tory at the next election?

    Chortle.

    I think Tissue Price is toying with the idea
    I'm voting Tory to keep Lord Cameron as Foreign Secretary.

    He's our greatest Foreign Secretary since Lord Palmerston.
    Was Pitt the Elder ever Foreign Secretary? If so, then this applies:

    https://youtu.be/YiYn8rNTutQ?si=9qdeD50q-9xGQlyU
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071
    edited March 16
    Scott_xP said:

    kle4 said:

    But it simply isn't the case that everyone was prepared for some kind of election in May regardless which they can ramp up, which appears to be what the claim is based on - that it has cost money

    No

    Having the GE on the same day as the locals would cost X

    Having the GE on a different day will cost Y

    The claim is that Y is greater than X, to the tune of 33 mill

    Richi has ruled out X, therefore it will cost taxpayers Y
    You claimed 25 minutes ago that they 'have everything booked for an election May already and now they will have to book everything again for another election on another date'.

    Not simply that it would cost X to do it in May, but that they had things booked already. That is, an actual cost incurred. You must have meant booked for a GE election, because you know that not everywhere has a local election in May.

    So you either reported the claim of the story incorrectly or are changing the claim.

    Look, I'd love for there to have been a GE in May as well, but no one ever officially said it would be, costs incurred for that would not be the government's fault.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,871
    My limited understanding of election logistics is, as @Bournville has suggested, those places with elections this May (most of England and Wales) will have the basic arrangements in place.

    In 2010, we had a GE and local elections on the same day in London - for Newham this meant two sets of ballot papers, two sets of boxes and two counts. The GE was counted first on the Thursday night so there would be declarations for East Ham and West Ham and then (presumably) a smaller set of counters returned on Friday afternoon to count the local votes.

    I recall Newham had declared by Friday evening but Tower Hamlets went into Saturday because of recounts.

    This year, we have the Mayoral and London Assembly votes but had a GE been also called for May 2nd there would have been three ballot papers, three sets of boxes and plenty for the polling officers to do to ensure the voters put the right paper in the right box.

    I don't know where the Mayoral and Assembly votes are being counted - the O2 perhaps - but had there been a GE they would count that first (possibly at the same venue). Logistically not impossible though I think the general preference is for one election at a time.
  • BournvilleBournville Posts: 309
    Scott_xP said:

    Having a general election on the same day means validating and counting more ballots - so you'd need to hire more staff and book the venues for longer, which would be expensive at short notice.

    Still much cheaper than doing it twice
    It isn't being done twice, the same number of ballots need to be verified and counted regardless of whether the general election takes place on May 2nd or November 21st. The only thing holding the election on May 2nd would achieve is giving returning officers across London stomach ulcers as they try to sort out the logistics of verifying three lots of ballots at the same time. There wouldn't be any savings in terms of man-hours of work, and you'd still need to hire additional time at the venues, so I don't understand why you think it would be cheaper.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,930
    Leon said:

    One day there will be something like this for me. A great Sepulchre of the Flint Knapper

    Silent and pensive. Grandiose yet tranquil





    People will quietly pace the gravelled precincts, thinking of my work, my writings, my great endeavours, perhaps consoling themselves that I may be dead, yet somehow I scorned death

    An avenue of exotic trees will be hung with flags, barely shifting in the sunlit breeze, denoting all the countries where I spanked a hooker




    It’s already been done.

    https://cadw.gov.wales/visit/places-to-visit/flint-castle#opening-times
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,986
    kle4 said:

    So you either reported the claim of the story incorrectly or are changing the claim.

    Nope

    Try reading it again. Maybe you will understand it next time.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,986

    I don't understand why you think it would be cheaper.

    Doing it once is cheaper than doing it twice
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,620
    CatMan said:

    CatMan said:

    Is *anyone* on this Board planning to vote Tory at the next election?

    Chortle.

    I think Tissue Price is toying with the idea
    I'm voting Tory to keep Lord Cameron as Foreign Secretary.

    He's our greatest Foreign Secretary since Lord Palmerston.
    Was Pitt the Elder ever Foreign Secretary? If so, then this applies:

    https://youtu.be/YiYn8rNTutQ?si=9qdeD50q-9xGQlyU
    Pitt the Elder was never Foreign Secretary.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,549

    Leon said:

    One day there will be something like this for me. A great Sepulchre of the Flint Knapper

    Silent and pensive. Grandiose yet tranquil





    People will quietly pace the gravelled precincts, thinking of my work, my writings, my great endeavours, perhaps consoling themselves that I may be dead, yet somehow I scorned death

    An avenue of exotic trees will be hung with flags, barely shifting in the sunlit breeze, denoting all the countries where I spanked a hooker




    It’s already been done.

    https://cadw.gov.wales/visit/places-to-visit/flint-castle#opening-times
    I had a weird thing happen at Flint Castle during my coastal walk.

    I'd finished a day's walk and was exploring the castle's ruins. A man came up to me and said: "Are you the guy walking the coast?"
    "Yes,"
    "I saw your motorhome down there. I was going to steal it, but saw the charity sign so I didn't."

    Now I can understand: it was @Leon....
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,412
    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @mikeysmith

    STORY

    Rishi Sunak chickening out of May 2 election is set to cost taxpayers £33.2 million

    Tory ex-minister says "everything was lined up" for May 2 election - but PM "bottled it".

    Another source believes Sunak dithered for so long because he wanted to go in May but was talked out of it.

    "They've given up. He wants it to be over."

    Source adds "many more" MPs are open to the idea of replacing Sunak before the election after the last fortnight.

    Dorries really is bitter, isn't she? So is Mogg.
    dixiedean said:

    The loony on the bus is talking to the couple in front of me for once.

    What is Michael Fabricant doing on a bus?
    I highly doubt this is JRM - he has said a change in leadership would be bad and does not seem in any way the type to brief anonymously. Frankly, neither is Dorries.

    Given that they're supporting a Labour line of attack, the mythical 'bottled May election' I'd say more likely a TINA Osborne type figure.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,930

    Scott_xP said:

    kle4 said:

    I need more context to this claim it has cost taxpayers anything - elections teams around the country read the news, they knew they might have to spring into action, but it's not as though they had everything booked and arranged for a GE in May, so what was the cost being talked about specifically?

    They have everything booked for an election May already, and now they will have to book everything again for another election on another date.

    That costs money...
    That isn't how it works. Various local authorities will already have booked venues for local and Mayoral election verification/counts, and hired temporary staff for May 2nd/3rd/4th. Having a general election on the same day means validating and counting more ballots - so you'd need to hire more staff and book the venues for longer, which would be expensive at short notice.
    Then Richi will complain about increased local government expenditure, having caused it.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071
    stodge said:

    My limited understanding of election logistics is, as @Bournville has suggested, those places with elections this May (most of England and Wales) will have the basic arrangements in place.

    In 2010, we had a GE and local elections on the same day in London - for Newham this meant two sets of ballot papers, two sets of boxes and two counts. The GE was counted first on the Thursday night so there would be declarations for East Ham and West Ham and then (presumably) a smaller set of counters returned on Friday afternoon to count the local votes.

    I recall Newham had declared by Friday evening but Tower Hamlets went into Saturday because of recounts.

    This year, we have the Mayoral and London Assembly votes but had a GE been also called for May 2nd there would have been three ballot papers, three sets of boxes and plenty for the polling officers to do to ensure the voters put the right paper in the right box.

    I don't know where the Mayoral and Assembly votes are being counted - the O2 perhaps - but had there been a GE they would count that first (possibly at the same venue). Logistically not impossible though I think the general preference is for one election at a time.

    They definitely would prefer for one at a time (doing Parliamentary, Local, PCC, parishes, can be a slog), but having some level of logistics in place at least would have made May easier in some respects, though not in all cases - last minute notice may mean some additional bits are simply not available, and the additional staffing would be harder to get in place. But certainly they would have managed. In nationwide terms to cost difference is not hugely significant.

    It's just disappointment over the election not being in May (unless they change their minds over the weekend I guess) looking for additnional angles of criticism, but it's really not major in terms of logistical inconvenience - those I know without locals taking place weren't looking forward to potentially doing last minute prep for May, and would prefer Autumn even though that leaves the date uncertain still.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239
    Picture quiz. No googlissimo

    Why is this place genuinely of global importance (allegedly)?


  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,549
    edited March 16
    Leon said:

    Picture quiz. No googlissimo

    Why is this place genuinely of global importance (allegedly)?

    (Snip)

    Flint Castle.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,407
    I hope in this match we make Agincourt look like a picnic.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,620
    edited March 16
    Not going to lie but La Marseillaise is the best national anthem in the world.

    I cannot tell you how much it pains me to say that.

    Even my loins girded there.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,574
    Leon said:

    Picture quiz. No googlissimo

    Why is this place genuinely of global importance (allegedly)?


    Probably related to this, knowing you:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-13158339/truth-alien-Colombia-mysterious-corpse.html
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,412
    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    kle4 said:

    But it simply isn't the case that everyone was prepared for some kind of election in May regardless which they can ramp up, which appears to be what the claim is based on - that it has cost money

    No

    Having the GE on the same day as the locals would cost X

    Having the GE on a different day will cost Y

    The claim is that Y is greater than X, to the tune of 33 mill

    Richi has ruled out X, therefore it will cost taxpayers Y
    You claimed 25 minutes ago that they 'have everything booked for an election May already and now they will have to book everything again for another election on another date'.

    Not simply that it would cost X to do it in May, but that they had things booked already. That is, an actual cost incurred. You must have meant booked for a GE election, because you know that not everywhere has a local election in May.

    So you either reported the claim of the story incorrectly or are changing the claim.

    Look, I'd love for there to have been a GE in May as well, but no one ever officially said it would be, costs incurred for that would not be the government's fault.
    It is utter, utter crap. No venue is going to charge a client for a cancelled event in May, and workers being stood down for an event in May won't be paid anything either. As you suggest, if any council is stupid enough to have laid down some money for some undisclosed cost 'in May' that can't be recovered, on the basis of Westminster tittle tattle, they're idiots.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    Leon said:

    Picture quiz. No googlissimo

    Why is this place genuinely of global importance (allegedly)?


    It’s where Putin had his first of many gay experiences which sent him in a spiral of self loathing.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,620
    Well.

    Hedge fund paid for Boris Johnson’s trip to meet Maduro in Venezuela

    The former PM is on the payroll of Merlyn Advisors and its founder flew with him to Caracas


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/oris-johnson-consultant-hedge-fund-venezuela-jgzsz6ll2
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,986

    It is utter, utter crap. No venue is going to charge a client for a cancelled event in May, and workers being stood down for an event in May won't be paid anything either. As you suggest, if any council is stupid enough to have laid down some money for some undisclosed cost 'in May' that can't be recovered, on the basis of Westminster tittle tattle, they're idiots.

    That was never the claim.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,098

    Is *anyone* on this Board planning to vote Tory at the next election?

    Chortle.

    Loads of people on here will vote Tory.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,930

    CatMan said:

    Is *anyone* on this Board planning to vote Tory at the next election?

    Chortle.

    I think Tissue Price is toying with the idea
    I'm voting Tory to keep Lord Cameron as Foreign Secretary.

    He's our greatest Foreign Secretary since Lord Palmerston.
    You’re wasting your time voting for Lord Cameron as Foreign Secretary. He will probably be reshuffled to PM.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    kinabalu said:

    Is *anyone* on this Board planning to vote Tory at the next election?

    Chortle.

    Loads of people on here will vote Tory.
    But only two brave enough to admit it.
    Casino of course should be voting Lib Dem if he wants a “strong opposition”.
  • TrumanTruman Posts: 279
    kinabalu said:

    Is *anyone* on this Board planning to vote Tory at the next election?

    Chortle.

    Loads of people on here will vote Tory.
    Ah. My favourite Hampstead liberal speaks. Had a nice day strolling the village exchanging woke platitudes mate.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239
    edited March 16
    Answer. Its the casa aduana in Santa Marta (the customs house)

    They claim it is the oldest European building in the Americas

    It is certainly extremely old. Early 16th century

    Wiki, however, completely ignores it
This discussion has been closed.