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Rishi Sunak is the new Boris Johnson and that’s not a good thing – politicalbetting.com

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  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,668
    It is the End of Days. The only question is what will kill us first: the heat, the aliens, the robots or the Wokeness


    HISTORIC
    For the first time in March a minimum temperature >30C in recorded in South America
    TMIN 30.4C Las Lomitas ARGENTINA
    TMIN 29.0 Mariscal Estigarribia and Concepcion HOTTEST MARCH NIGHT IN PARAGUAY
    Hundreds of records are being brutalized from Colombia to Argentina
    tbc

    https://x.com/extremetemps/status/1768043128550727768?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    148grss said:

    I see Patriotic Alternative are one of the far-right groups being labelled as extremist today. I have no sympathy with their politics, but as far as I've been able to tell they've pursued an entirely peaceful electoral strategy, which they've persisted with despite achieving very little success. In a way they're a bit endearingly naive*.

    Do we really want to drive such a group underground? What does the government designating then as extremist achieve?

    It's better to have this sort of group as part of the democratic process (where I'd hope they'd continue to fail miserably) rather than shut out and driven to further extremes.

    Does this mean they won't qualify for a free mailshot at the general election?

    And really, can we really hold Patriotic Alternative responsible for making our public debate more extreme? Surely the way in which we've tolerated more mainstream voices in the media who have completely disregarded the difference between fact and fiction has had more of an impact.

    * Although it's possible I've confused them with some other group. There are a lot out there.

    PA like to peddle that they're just an electoral movement, but they are just street fash. I've been at demos opposing PA where their members are swinging fists and sieg heiling - they aren't just another further right wing group. They have also been associated heavily with the riots outside hotels hosting migrants, and the burning of cop cars and the like.
    I thought burning stuff wasn't threatening - just a bit of the rich tapestry of the People sticking it to The Man.

    Or was that a different memo?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,785
    ...
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,751
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    TOPPING said:

    malcolmg said:

    The Festival Day 3 🐎
    having assembled a team of returning Cheltenham winners and up and coming future megastars, I feel much more confident about my chances of adding to my 3 winners today,
    Cheltenham 1.30 - Colonel Harry
    Cheltenham 2.10 - Gaoth Chuil
    Cheltenham 2.50 - Stage Star
    Cheltenham 3:30 - Teahupoo
    Cheltenham 4:10 - In Excelsis Deo
    Cheltenham 4:50 - Jade De Grugy*
    Cheltenham 5.30 - Whacker Clan

    *I never pick horses just because of my or family names in it, this horse will finish somewhere in the top 2, call me out if it doesn’t

    Have a good day.

    Mine for today , not much time so will just have trixie/singles on 1:30, 2:50 and 3:30
    Cheltenham 1.30 - Iroko
    Cheltenham 2.10 - Cuthbert Dibble
    Cheltenham 2.50 - Stage Star
    Cheltenham 3:30 - Sire Du Berlais
    Cheltenham 4:10 - Crebilly
    Cheltenham 4:50 - Jade De Grugy
    Cheltenham 5.30 - Where it all Began
    Great days racing yesterday, Malc - what a Champion Chase. Rachel Blackmore is a monster. She has joined that group of jocks who people know will get every last inch out of their horse and find the win if it is anywhere in there. Awesome.

    They might have changed the name but yesterday really was Ladies' Day and Rachel was the lady.
    Glad you enjoyed it Topping. I was too busy yesterday and did not even get a chance to get a bet.
    As an aside my ticket for Scottish National meeting has arrived, looking forward to that.
    Nice
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,668

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    An interesting coincidence

    “Ayahuasca was found to speed up the extinction of fear memories in rats by affecting serotonin receptors in the brain. This effect, consistent across new and old memories, points to potential therapeutic uses for anxiety and trauma-related conditions.”

    https://x.com/psypost/status/1766177843267195099?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    For one Spectator writer, it certainly reduced his fear of death

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-secret-to-taking-ayahuasca/

    So... that Spectator writer is a rat, you think? :wink:
    Certain shared characteristics, for sure. The desire to flee incoming danger and take refuge in far away places.
    Also a kind of basic ruthless cunning. And bringer of bad news about plagues
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,080
    edited March 14
    eek said:

    Reasons why this Government is going to do badly up north No 154365

    https://www.bromley.gov.uk/news/article/669/made-possible-by-reallocated-hs2-funding

    Yes that is leafy Bromley council (in south London/ Kent) getting money from the cancellation of train route from Manchester to North London

    They're using some of the money to resurface the road by Orpington War Memorial. How could you object to that?

    And also, what a contrast of ambition. On the one hand a new, modern, fast rail line connecting the capital to Manchester. On the other hand, resurfacing the road by a suburban war memorial.
  • TrumanTruman Posts: 279

    Leon said:

    Fear not, our state broadcaster is ready to pour soothing oil upon the stormy 'shooting a black woman in a rude not racist way' waters.


    Whereas Sky News invited Shakeel Afsar to say that the law will 'vilify the wrong people'.

    https://news.sky.com/story/governments-new-extremism-definition-will-vilify-the-wrong-people-warn-muslim-organisations-13094043

    He was previously in the news for leading protests against LGBT education in schools:

    https://news.sky.com/story/parents-against-lgbt-lessons-in-school-being-pushed-into-corner-11731820

    And for storming the screening of a film:

    https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/muslim-activists-storm-birmingham-screening-kerala-story/
    That news item is extraordinary. For opinions, they went to CAGE, 5Pillars and Friends of Al Aqsa, which is like writing an article on immigration law then seeking out the wisdom of the KKK, the BNP and Friends of Andrew Tate
    I think the technique there is “allow the extremists some rope and they will find a tree branch to throw it over, tie an noose and place it round their own necks”
    Perhaps inviting them back for the Xth time might suggest this isn't an entirely efficent strategy.
    I am not aware of Melanie Phillips being shown to be a racist - she does have very firm right wing views. This shows the danger of the 'extremism' tag - we are apparently never again supposed to hear from people who express anything more than anodyne central office approved platitudes. Both Melanie Phillips and Diane Abbot should continue to be heard, and screw the stupid people who imply otherwise.
    The establishment are pretty terrified I think of the free speech on twitter and tiktok now. Hence this move and the move to ban tiktok in the US.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639
    edited March 14
    AlsoLei said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Donkeys said:

    Taz said:

    isam said:

    Lord Ashcroft’s latest poll asks 2019 Tory Voters who they think would be an electoral asset

    Penny Mourdant top with 45
    Boris second with 37
    Cameron 31
    Sunak 29

    http://lordashcroftpolls.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/Lord-Ashcroft-Polls-Political-survey-March-2024-Full-tables.xls

    The Tories are absolutely doomed but to be honest a campaign led by Mordaunt might be their best chance of avoiding oblivion right now. She surely can’t do any worse.
    Does she know what a woman or, or more to the point would that issue become a millstone around her neck in the campaign ?

    Also why would she take it to lead them to oblivion unless she was going to stay as leader post election on the assumption she holds her seat.
    Re your second paragraph, well, that would be the potential prize for her.

    I’m not saying this is at all likely, but I do wonder if strategically she might be the best shot they’ve got. She stands a very good chance of losing her seat on current polling, so doesn’t have much to lose right now. She’s not running a government department so doesn’t have a lot of record to attack. And she is by far the Tories’ best communicator. She could make a play for the contrast against Starmer. She’s also the only one who could plausibly run a “we’ve messed up and we need to do better” narrative.

    I mean, look, nobody’s going to stop the Tories from losing the next election and it’s entirely plausible the whole thing would backfire and they go down to a humongous defeat. But given it’s staring them in the face anyway, what’s the harm in trying?
    The Penny d'Arc scenario?
    By far the best communicator is the key factor.
    It's not true that nobody can stop the Tories from losing. Probably half the polling gap disappears the moment she takes over.
    There is also the chance that the rapid process of putting together a manifesto and presenting it to the country shows her up as out of her depth, befuddled, inconsistent.

    She has a turn of phrase, a waving generality, a manner, and a relationship with fact that makes her the closest thing to a replacement Boris the Conservatives have, but I'm not sure she has the outright feral self-centred self-preservation instinct that brought Boris to the top.

    Her ceiling is higher than Sunak's, but her floor a lot, lot lower.

    At worst she could prove herself to be a pale imitation of Jo Swinson.
    She has been accused of wearing military medals to which she was not entitled - I do not recall if this was proved, or disproved, but there always seem to have been suggestions that she might have some rather ugly skeletons in her cupboard,
    I think the medals thing turned out to be misinformation:

    Image of Penny Mordaunt wearing military medals is digitally altered
    https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSL1N2YZ1EO/
    No, she's admitted it for the submarine dolphins, but did say it was with permission for RN related events. She's MP for Pompey, remember, which is still (just about) a naval base with rather more in the way of HM Ships than Victory, Warrior and Mary Rose, if much reduced from the glory days.

    Service medals is different, though there was a tradition where widows/relatives could wear their deceased relatives' medals (as miniatures?) on the right breast I think (was something in the 1920s I believe, with all the Armistice Day services)
  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,415

    148grss said:

    I see Patriotic Alternative are one of the far-right groups being labelled as extremist today. I have no sympathy with their politics, but as far as I've been able to tell they've pursued an entirely peaceful electoral strategy, which they've persisted with despite achieving very little success. In a way they're a bit endearingly naive*.

    Do we really want to drive such a group underground? What does the government designating then as extremist achieve?

    It's better to have this sort of group as part of the democratic process (where I'd hope they'd continue to fail miserably) rather than shut out and driven to further extremes.

    Does this mean they won't qualify for a free mailshot at the general election?

    And really, can we really hold Patriotic Alternative responsible for making our public debate more extreme? Surely the way in which we've tolerated more mainstream voices in the media who have completely disregarded the difference between fact and fiction has had more of an impact.

    * Although it's possible I've confused them with some other group. There are a lot out there.

    PA like to peddle that they're just an electoral movement, but they are just street fash. I've been at demos opposing PA where their members are swinging fists and sieg heiling - they aren't just another further right wing group. They have also been associated heavily with the riots outside hotels hosting migrants, and the burning of cop cars and the like.
    I thought burning stuff wasn't threatening - just a bit of the rich tapestry of the People sticking it to The Man.

    Or was that a different memo?
    IDS reckons it's fine:

    Sir Iain Duncan Smith backs 'blade runner' ULEZ vandals: Tory MP says he is 'happy' for residents of his east London constituency to destroy cameras because they have been 'lied to'
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12458065/Sir-Iain-Smith-ULEZ-vandals-Tory-MP.html

    Police hunt 'blade runner' vigilante who blew up ULEZ camera using a home made bomb - sending metal shrapnel blasting into cars and homes
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12836717/Mystery-ULEZ-camera-EXPLODES-street-cut-vigilantes-police-launch-probe.html

    (for some reason, the Mail is the only source for about 90% of anti-Ulez stories...)
  • TrumanTruman Posts: 279
    148grss said:

    I see Patriotic Alternative are one of the far-right groups being labelled as extremist today. I have no sympathy with their politics, but as far as I've been able to tell they've pursued an entirely peaceful electoral strategy, which they've persisted with despite achieving very little success. In a way they're a bit endearingly naive*.

    Do we really want to drive such a group underground? What does the government designating then as extremist achieve?

    It's better to have this sort of group as part of the democratic process (where I'd hope they'd continue to fail miserably) rather than shut out and driven to further extremes.

    Does this mean they won't qualify for a free mailshot at the general election?

    And really, can we really hold Patriotic Alternative responsible for making our public debate more extreme? Surely the way in which we've tolerated more mainstream voices in the media who have completely disregarded the difference between fact and fiction has had more of an impact.

    * Although it's possible I've confused them with some other group. There are a lot out there.

    PA like to peddle that they're just an electoral movement, but they are just street fash. I've been at demos opposing PA where their members are swinging fists and sieg heiling - they aren't just another further right wing group. They have also been associated heavily with the riots outside hotels hosting migrants, and the burning of cop cars and the like.
    Led by former bnp member Mark Collett I think.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,177
    Leon said:

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    An interesting coincidence

    “Ayahuasca was found to speed up the extinction of fear memories in rats by affecting serotonin receptors in the brain. This effect, consistent across new and old memories, points to potential therapeutic uses for anxiety and trauma-related conditions.”

    https://x.com/psypost/status/1766177843267195099?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    For one Spectator writer, it certainly reduced his fear of death

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-secret-to-taking-ayahuasca/

    So... that Spectator writer is a rat, you think? :wink:
    Certain shared characteristics, for sure. The desire to flee incoming danger and take refuge in far away places.
    Also a kind of basic ruthless cunning. And bringer of bad news about plagues
    A tendency to persistent incontinence such that birds of prey can spot their passage by the urine trails? Or is that mice?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,353

    Leon said:

    £3,000? To go to Rwanda? Leon - how much would you charge the Flintknapper's Gazette to go on a reporting mission? Can't we just hire asylum seekers like that?

    I would absolutely go to Rwanda for £3k!

    You could fly out Business (£1500 one way on Turkish airlines) then have a nice week of holiday; fly back Economy (£500) and still have a couple of hundred left
    Who said anything about you coming back?
    The whole point is you stay there. Get processed. And then what? Given a work permit to do… what?
    Knap flints obviously.

    The whole point is to send the dirty foreign invasion away. What they do there is their problem not ours. Etc.
    “The whole point is to send the dirty foreign invasion away.”

    Community flag for Dale. That’s not true. They can only process 200 at £1.5 million each - we Can’t send the whole dirty foreign invasion away - and there’s another thirty thousand coming across between now and Autumn!
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,080
    148grss said:

    I see Patriotic Alternative are one of the far-right groups being labelled as extremist today. I have no sympathy with their politics, but as far as I've been able to tell they've pursued an entirely peaceful electoral strategy, which they've persisted with despite achieving very little success. In a way they're a bit endearingly naive*.

    Do we really want to drive such a group underground? What does the government designating then as extremist achieve?

    It's better to have this sort of group as part of the democratic process (where I'd hope they'd continue to fail miserably) rather than shut out and driven to further extremes.

    Does this mean they won't qualify for a free mailshot at the general election?

    And really, can we really hold Patriotic Alternative responsible for making our public debate more extreme? Surely the way in which we've tolerated more mainstream voices in the media who have completely disregarded the difference between fact and fiction has had more of an impact.

    * Although it's possible I've confused them with some other group. There are a lot out there.

    PA like to peddle that they're just an electoral movement, but they are just street fash. I've been at demos opposing PA where their members are swinging fists and sieg heiling - they aren't just another further right wing group. They have also been associated heavily with the riots outside hotels hosting migrants, and the burning of cop cars and the like.
    Yes. Looks like I mixed them up with my memory of this former party, so quite a lot of what I said was wrong, where it applied to that group specifically.

    https://twitter.com/psp_sw
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,577
    eek said:

    Reasons why this Government is going to do badly up north No 154365

    https://www.bromley.gov.uk/news/article/669/made-possible-by-reallocated-hs2-funding

    Yes that is leafy Bromley council (in south London/ Kent) getting money from the cancellation of train route from Manchester to North London

    Part of Greater London since 1965.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    TOPPING said:

    malcolmg said:

    The Festival Day 3 🐎
    having assembled a team of returning Cheltenham winners and up and coming future megastars, I feel much more confident about my chances of adding to my 3 winners today,
    Cheltenham 1.30 - Colonel Harry
    Cheltenham 2.10 - Gaoth Chuil
    Cheltenham 2.50 - Stage Star
    Cheltenham 3:30 - Teahupoo
    Cheltenham 4:10 - In Excelsis Deo
    Cheltenham 4:50 - Jade De Grugy*
    Cheltenham 5.30 - Whacker Clan

    *I never pick horses just because of my or family names in it, this horse will finish somewhere in the top 2, call me out if it doesn’t

    Have a good day.

    Mine for today , not much time so will just have trixie/singles on 1:30, 2:50 and 3:30
    Cheltenham 1.30 - Iroko
    Cheltenham 2.10 - Cuthbert Dibble
    Cheltenham 2.50 - Stage Star
    Cheltenham 3:30 - Sire Du Berlais
    Cheltenham 4:10 - Crebilly
    Cheltenham 4:50 - Jade De Grugy
    Cheltenham 5.30 - Where it all Began
    Great days racing yesterday, Malc - what a Champion Chase. Rachel Blackmore is a monster. She has joined that group of jocks who people know will get every last inch out of their horse and find the win if it is anywhere in there. Awesome.

    They might have changed the name but yesterday really was Ladies' Day and Rachel was the lady.
    Glad you enjoyed it Topping. I was too busy yesterday and did not even get a chance to get a bet.
    As an aside my ticket for Scottish National meeting has arrived, looking forward to that.
    I take it it doesn't finish with a Party?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639
    edited March 14

    eek said:

    Reasons why this Government is going to do badly up north No 154365

    https://www.bromley.gov.uk/news/article/669/made-possible-by-reallocated-hs2-funding

    Yes that is leafy Bromley council (in south London/ Kent) getting money from the cancellation of train route from Manchester to North London

    They're using some of the money to resurface the road by Orpington War Memorial. How could you object to that?

    And also, what a contrast of ambition. On the one hand a new, modern, fast rail line connecting the capital to Manchester. On the other hand, resurfacing the road by a suburban war memorial.
    Not just Orpy's memorial, though, so it's not the usual Tory thing of grabbing a very sad episode of history (which we should all remember) and making it into death and UJ cult stuff. Crystal Parade is being done up, so we can get to the dinos more quickly. .
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,353

    No one saw that coming 🐎

    Kinabalu about to say, this Cheltenham is so one sided - can’t the Irish compete 😈
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,305

    Medvedev's 7 points for the capitulation of Ukraine.

    https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1768206863881888195/photo/1

    Russia really is an imperialist, fascist state. Shame on those who excuse its actions.

    It’s interesting that he’s now talking about reunification of the whole country.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,080
    Leon said:

    It is the End of Days. The only question is what will kill us first: the heat, the aliens, the robots or the Wokeness


    HISTORIC
    For the first time in March a minimum temperature >30C in recorded in South America
    TMIN 30.4C Las Lomitas ARGENTINA
    TMIN 29.0 Mariscal Estigarribia and Concepcion HOTTEST MARCH NIGHT IN PARAGUAY
    Hundreds of records are being brutalized from Colombia to Argentina
    tbc

    https://x.com/extremetemps/status/1768043128550727768?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Keep an eye on the wet-bulb temperatures and let us know if they reach 30C. ECMWF forecast suggests you will be fine.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,796
    edited March 14

    Leon said:

    Fear not, our state broadcaster is ready to pour soothing oil upon the stormy 'shooting a black woman in a rude not racist way' waters.


    Whereas Sky News invited Shakeel Afsar to say that the law will 'vilify the wrong people'.

    https://news.sky.com/story/governments-new-extremism-definition-will-vilify-the-wrong-people-warn-muslim-organisations-13094043

    He was previously in the news for leading protests against LGBT education in schools:

    https://news.sky.com/story/parents-against-lgbt-lessons-in-school-being-pushed-into-corner-11731820

    And for storming the screening of a film:

    https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/muslim-activists-storm-birmingham-screening-kerala-story/
    That news item is extraordinary. For opinions, they went to CAGE, 5Pillars and Friends of Al Aqsa, which is like writing an article on immigration law then seeking out the wisdom of the KKK, the BNP and Friends of Andrew Tate
    I think the technique there is “allow the extremists some rope and they will find a tree branch to throw it over, tie an noose and place it round their own necks”
    Perhaps inviting them back for the Xth time might suggest this isn't an entirely efficent strategy.
    I am not aware of Melanie Phillips being shown to be a racist - she does have very firm right wing views. This shows the danger of the 'extremism' tag - we are apparently never again supposed to hear from people who express anything more than anodyne central office approved platitudes. Both Melanie Phillips and Diane Abbot should continue to be heard, and screw the stupid people who imply otherwise.
    You think 'Londonistan' doesn't have certain connotations?
    In any case I've no problem with the being heard bit, it's the endless amplification. People like Phillips don't get repeatedly invited onto QT for the measured insights, it's her contributions to the freak show that she's there for.
  • DM_AndyDM_Andy Posts: 1,127

    Leon said:

    Fear not, our state broadcaster is ready to pour soothing oil upon the stormy 'shooting a black woman in a rude not racist way' waters.


    Whereas Sky News invited Shakeel Afsar to say that the law will 'vilify the wrong people'.

    https://news.sky.com/story/governments-new-extremism-definition-will-vilify-the-wrong-people-warn-muslim-organisations-13094043

    He was previously in the news for leading protests against LGBT education in schools:

    https://news.sky.com/story/parents-against-lgbt-lessons-in-school-being-pushed-into-corner-11731820

    And for storming the screening of a film:

    https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/muslim-activists-storm-birmingham-screening-kerala-story/
    That news item is extraordinary. For opinions, they went to CAGE, 5Pillars and Friends of Al Aqsa, which is like writing an article on immigration law then seeking out the wisdom of the KKK, the BNP and Friends of Andrew Tate
    I think the technique there is “allow the extremists some rope and they will find a tree branch to throw it over, tie an noose and place it round their own necks”
    Perhaps inviting them back for the Xth time might suggest this isn't an entirely efficent strategy.
    I am not aware of Melanie Phillips being shown to be a racist - she does have very firm right wing views. This shows the danger of the 'extremism' tag - we are apparently never again supposed to hear from people who express anything more than anodyne central office approved platitudes. Both Melanie Phillips and Diane Abbot should continue to be heard, and screw the stupid people who imply otherwise.
    But only one gets the BBC platform and it's not the one that's actually democratically elected.

  • TrumanTruman Posts: 279

    148grss said:

    I see Patriotic Alternative are one of the far-right groups being labelled as extremist today. I have no sympathy with their politics, but as far as I've been able to tell they've pursued an entirely peaceful electoral strategy, which they've persisted with despite achieving very little success. In a way they're a bit endearingly naive*.

    Do we really want to drive such a group underground? What does the government designating then as extremist achieve?

    It's better to have this sort of group as part of the democratic process (where I'd hope they'd continue to fail miserably) rather than shut out and driven to further extremes.

    Does this mean they won't qualify for a free mailshot at the general election?

    And really, can we really hold Patriotic Alternative responsible for making our public debate more extreme? Surely the way in which we've tolerated more mainstream voices in the media who have completely disregarded the difference between fact and fiction has had more of an impact.

    * Although it's possible I've confused them with some other group. There are a lot out there.

    PA like to peddle that they're just an electoral movement, but they are just street fash. I've been at demos opposing PA where their members are swinging fists and sieg heiling - they aren't just another further right wing group. They have also been associated heavily with the riots outside hotels hosting migrants, and the burning of cop cars and the like.
    Yes. Looks like I mixed them up with my memory of this former party, so quite a lot of what I said was wrong, where it applied to that group specifically.

    https://twitter.com/psp_sw
    Patriotic Alternative are supposed to be non violent. They are certainly no EDL. It is better i think to allow groups fighting for the interests of the ethnic majority in the uk.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586

    148grss said:

    I see Patriotic Alternative are one of the far-right groups being labelled as extremist today. I have no sympathy with their politics, but as far as I've been able to tell they've pursued an entirely peaceful electoral strategy, which they've persisted with despite achieving very little success. In a way they're a bit endearingly naive*.

    Do we really want to drive such a group underground? What does the government designating then as extremist achieve?

    It's better to have this sort of group as part of the democratic process (where I'd hope they'd continue to fail miserably) rather than shut out and driven to further extremes.

    Does this mean they won't qualify for a free mailshot at the general election?

    And really, can we really hold Patriotic Alternative responsible for making our public debate more extreme? Surely the way in which we've tolerated more mainstream voices in the media who have completely disregarded the difference between fact and fiction has had more of an impact.

    * Although it's possible I've confused them with some other group. There are a lot out there.

    PA like to peddle that they're just an electoral movement, but they are just street fash. I've been at demos opposing PA where their members are swinging fists and sieg heiling - they aren't just another further right wing group. They have also been associated heavily with the riots outside hotels hosting migrants, and the burning of cop cars and the like.
    Yes. Looks like I mixed them up with my memory of this former party, so quite a lot of what I said was wrong, where it applied to that group specifically.

    https://twitter.com/psp_sw
    When I was at university, the Spontaneously Exploding Community did Death To The West quite openly. The Far Right kept on rebranding themselves every five minutes. It was like the scene in Holy Grail - each new organisation had a name that was a variation on the last one.

    We used to keep a list of the variations - both lots were trying to recruit students, so we tried to keep up with the latest fashions in fuckwittery.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    edited March 14

    148grss said:

    I see Patriotic Alternative are one of the far-right groups being labelled as extremist today. I have no sympathy with their politics, but as far as I've been able to tell they've pursued an entirely peaceful electoral strategy, which they've persisted with despite achieving very little success. In a way they're a bit endearingly naive*.

    Do we really want to drive such a group underground? What does the government designating then as extremist achieve?

    It's better to have this sort of group as part of the democratic process (where I'd hope they'd continue to fail miserably) rather than shut out and driven to further extremes.

    Does this mean they won't qualify for a free mailshot at the general election?

    And really, can we really hold Patriotic Alternative responsible for making our public debate more extreme? Surely the way in which we've tolerated more mainstream voices in the media who have completely disregarded the difference between fact and fiction has had more of an impact.

    * Although it's possible I've confused them with some other group. There are a lot out there.

    PA like to peddle that they're just an electoral movement, but they are just street fash. I've been at demos opposing PA where their members are swinging fists and sieg heiling - they aren't just another further right wing group. They have also been associated heavily with the riots outside hotels hosting migrants, and the burning of cop cars and the like.
    Yes. Looks like I mixed them up with my memory of this former party, so quite a lot of what I said was wrong, where it applied to that group specifically.

    https://twitter.com/psp_sw
    When I was at university, the Spontaneously Exploding Community did Death To The West quite openly. The Far Right kept on rebranding themselves every five minutes. It was like the scene in Holy Grail - each new organisation had a name that was a variation on the last one.

    We used to keep a list of the variations - both lots were trying to recruit students, so we tried to keep up with the latest fashions in fuckwittery.
    D'you mean Life of Brian, or is that a rather obscure reference to the Knights Who Say Ni?
  • TrumanTruman Posts: 279

    148grss said:

    I see Patriotic Alternative are one of the far-right groups being labelled as extremist today. I have no sympathy with their politics, but as far as I've been able to tell they've pursued an entirely peaceful electoral strategy, which they've persisted with despite achieving very little success. In a way they're a bit endearingly naive*.

    Do we really want to drive such a group underground? What does the government designating then as extremist achieve?

    It's better to have this sort of group as part of the democratic process (where I'd hope they'd continue to fail miserably) rather than shut out and driven to further extremes.

    Does this mean they won't qualify for a free mailshot at the general election?

    And really, can we really hold Patriotic Alternative responsible for making our public debate more extreme? Surely the way in which we've tolerated more mainstream voices in the media who have completely disregarded the difference between fact and fiction has had more of an impact.

    * Although it's possible I've confused them with some other group. There are a lot out there.

    PA like to peddle that they're just an electoral movement, but they are just street fash. I've been at demos opposing PA where their members are swinging fists and sieg heiling - they aren't just another further right wing group. They have also been associated heavily with the riots outside hotels hosting migrants, and the burning of cop cars and the like.
    Yes. Looks like I mixed them up with my memory of this former party, so quite a lot of what I said was wrong, where it applied to that group specifically.

    https://twitter.com/psp_sw
    When I was at university, the Spontaneously Exploding Community did Death To The West quite openly. The Far Right kept on rebranding themselves every five minutes. It was like the scene in Holy Grail - each new organisation had a name that was a variation on the last one.

    We used to keep a list of the variations - both lots were trying to recruit students, so we tried to keep up with the latest fashions in fuckwittery.
    They allowed the far right at your university. Where was that.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    Truman said:

    148grss said:

    I see Patriotic Alternative are one of the far-right groups being labelled as extremist today. I have no sympathy with their politics, but as far as I've been able to tell they've pursued an entirely peaceful electoral strategy, which they've persisted with despite achieving very little success. In a way they're a bit endearingly naive*.

    Do we really want to drive such a group underground? What does the government designating then as extremist achieve?

    It's better to have this sort of group as part of the democratic process (where I'd hope they'd continue to fail miserably) rather than shut out and driven to further extremes.

    Does this mean they won't qualify for a free mailshot at the general election?

    And really, can we really hold Patriotic Alternative responsible for making our public debate more extreme? Surely the way in which we've tolerated more mainstream voices in the media who have completely disregarded the difference between fact and fiction has had more of an impact.

    * Although it's possible I've confused them with some other group. There are a lot out there.

    PA like to peddle that they're just an electoral movement, but they are just street fash. I've been at demos opposing PA where their members are swinging fists and sieg heiling - they aren't just another further right wing group. They have also been associated heavily with the riots outside hotels hosting migrants, and the burning of cop cars and the like.
    Yes. Looks like I mixed them up with my memory of this former party, so quite a lot of what I said was wrong, where it applied to that group specifically.

    https://twitter.com/psp_sw
    When I was at university, the Spontaneously Exploding Community did Death To The West quite openly. The Far Right kept on rebranding themselves every five minutes. It was like the scene in Holy Grail - each new organisation had a name that was a variation on the last one.

    We used to keep a list of the variations - both lots were trying to recruit students, so we tried to keep up with the latest fashions in fuckwittery.
    They allowed the far right at your university. Where was that.
    We banned them as they popped up. The University authorities didn't want us to ban the head choppers. And they got irate when the Far Left got claimed by the Polish Society.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,668

    Leon said:

    It is the End of Days. The only question is what will kill us first: the heat, the aliens, the robots or the Wokeness


    HISTORIC
    For the first time in March a minimum temperature >30C in recorded in South America
    TMIN 30.4C Las Lomitas ARGENTINA
    TMIN 29.0 Mariscal Estigarribia and Concepcion HOTTEST MARCH NIGHT IN PARAGUAY
    Hundreds of records are being brutalized from Colombia to Argentina
    tbc

    https://x.com/extremetemps/status/1768043128550727768?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Keep an eye on the wet-bulb temperatures and let us know if they reach 30C. ECMWF forecast suggests you will be fine.
    Apparently Santa Marta in particular (ie: where I am) has just broken its March temperature record

    So this is genuinely unusual. It’s fucking HOT
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    ydoethur said:

    148grss said:

    I see Patriotic Alternative are one of the far-right groups being labelled as extremist today. I have no sympathy with their politics, but as far as I've been able to tell they've pursued an entirely peaceful electoral strategy, which they've persisted with despite achieving very little success. In a way they're a bit endearingly naive*.

    Do we really want to drive such a group underground? What does the government designating then as extremist achieve?

    It's better to have this sort of group as part of the democratic process (where I'd hope they'd continue to fail miserably) rather than shut out and driven to further extremes.

    Does this mean they won't qualify for a free mailshot at the general election?

    And really, can we really hold Patriotic Alternative responsible for making our public debate more extreme? Surely the way in which we've tolerated more mainstream voices in the media who have completely disregarded the difference between fact and fiction has had more of an impact.

    * Although it's possible I've confused them with some other group. There are a lot out there.

    PA like to peddle that they're just an electoral movement, but they are just street fash. I've been at demos opposing PA where their members are swinging fists and sieg heiling - they aren't just another further right wing group. They have also been associated heavily with the riots outside hotels hosting migrants, and the burning of cop cars and the like.
    Yes. Looks like I mixed them up with my memory of this former party, so quite a lot of what I said was wrong, where it applied to that group specifically.

    https://twitter.com/psp_sw
    When I was at university, the Spontaneously Exploding Community did Death To The West quite openly. The Far Right kept on rebranding themselves every five minutes. It was like the scene in Holy Grail - each new organisation had a name that was a variation on the last one.

    We used to keep a list of the variations - both lots were trying to recruit students, so we tried to keep up with the latest fashions in fuckwittery.
    D'you mean Life of Brian, or is that a rather obscure reference to the Knights Who Say Ni?
    Sorry, yes.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154

    Truman said:

    148grss said:

    I see Patriotic Alternative are one of the far-right groups being labelled as extremist today. I have no sympathy with their politics, but as far as I've been able to tell they've pursued an entirely peaceful electoral strategy, which they've persisted with despite achieving very little success. In a way they're a bit endearingly naive*.

    Do we really want to drive such a group underground? What does the government designating then as extremist achieve?

    It's better to have this sort of group as part of the democratic process (where I'd hope they'd continue to fail miserably) rather than shut out and driven to further extremes.

    Does this mean they won't qualify for a free mailshot at the general election?

    And really, can we really hold Patriotic Alternative responsible for making our public debate more extreme? Surely the way in which we've tolerated more mainstream voices in the media who have completely disregarded the difference between fact and fiction has had more of an impact.

    * Although it's possible I've confused them with some other group. There are a lot out there.

    PA like to peddle that they're just an electoral movement, but they are just street fash. I've been at demos opposing PA where their members are swinging fists and sieg heiling - they aren't just another further right wing group. They have also been associated heavily with the riots outside hotels hosting migrants, and the burning of cop cars and the like.
    Yes. Looks like I mixed them up with my memory of this former party, so quite a lot of what I said was wrong, where it applied to that group specifically.

    https://twitter.com/psp_sw
    When I was at university, the Spontaneously Exploding Community did Death To The West quite openly. The Far Right kept on rebranding themselves every five minutes. It was like the scene in Holy Grail - each new organisation had a name that was a variation on the last one.

    We used to keep a list of the variations - both lots were trying to recruit students, so we tried to keep up with the latest fashions in fuckwittery.
    They allowed the far right at your university. Where was that.
    We banned them as they popped up. The University authorities didn't want us to ban the head choppers. And they got irate when the Far Left got claimed by the Polish Society.
    Did they take a shine to them?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,080
    Another mess of a government computer system making people's lives a misery.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/mar/14/home-office-immigration-database-errors-hit-more-than-76000-people

    Now imagine that, but for the population born in Britain, and you have a sense of the catastrofuck that would have followed the creation of a National ID card database.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639
    ydoethur said:

    Truman said:

    148grss said:

    I see Patriotic Alternative are one of the far-right groups being labelled as extremist today. I have no sympathy with their politics, but as far as I've been able to tell they've pursued an entirely peaceful electoral strategy, which they've persisted with despite achieving very little success. In a way they're a bit endearingly naive*.

    Do we really want to drive such a group underground? What does the government designating then as extremist achieve?

    It's better to have this sort of group as part of the democratic process (where I'd hope they'd continue to fail miserably) rather than shut out and driven to further extremes.

    Does this mean they won't qualify for a free mailshot at the general election?

    And really, can we really hold Patriotic Alternative responsible for making our public debate more extreme? Surely the way in which we've tolerated more mainstream voices in the media who have completely disregarded the difference between fact and fiction has had more of an impact.

    * Although it's possible I've confused them with some other group. There are a lot out there.

    PA like to peddle that they're just an electoral movement, but they are just street fash. I've been at demos opposing PA where their members are swinging fists and sieg heiling - they aren't just another further right wing group. They have also been associated heavily with the riots outside hotels hosting migrants, and the burning of cop cars and the like.
    Yes. Looks like I mixed them up with my memory of this former party, so quite a lot of what I said was wrong, where it applied to that group specifically.

    https://twitter.com/psp_sw
    When I was at university, the Spontaneously Exploding Community did Death To The West quite openly. The Far Right kept on rebranding themselves every five minutes. It was like the scene in Holy Grail - each new organisation had a name that was a variation on the last one.

    We used to keep a list of the variations - both lots were trying to recruit students, so we tried to keep up with the latest fashions in fuckwittery.
    They allowed the far right at your university. Where was that.
    We banned them as they popped up. The University authorities didn't want us to ban the head choppers. And they got irate when the Far Left got claimed by the Polish Society.
    Did they take a shine to them?
    Gave them a dusting, more like, by the sound of it.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,851
    edited March 14

    Lord Ashcroft has published a poll. I missed it if it was shared here.
    Fieldwork 7-11th March, changes with 8-12th Feb
    CON 23% (-4)
    LAB 45% (+2)
    LDM 6% (-1)
    GRN 8% (nc)
    RFM 11% (+1)

    Good lord!
    We know what is going on, but do we know why? Why down and down against backdrop of giveaway budget warmly received, and inflation beaten, report yesterday of economic growth and mortgage costs falling?

    Is it electorate anger at not getting spring election, or is it Sunak is so not rated now it’s pulling the party to new depths?

    If you know why, let number 10 know, because they can’t do anything about it unless they know why.
    Fwiw I think a backdrop of somewhat better economic news in the next couple of quarters will lift the Tory fortunes enough to rule out some of the more lurid electoral outcomes but not enough to prevent a significant defeat.
    Okay.

    Can you be more specific on the good economic news that shifts the dial upwards for Tories, that’s actually being forecasted and expected?

    Correct me where wrong,

    the growth forecasts are to blip out of technical recession but only by the odd blip we blipped into it - up mere blips hardly supports “we have turned a corner and achieved growth” slogans. In fact the OBR 0.8 growth in 2024 is cherry picking the most optimistic of other forcasts for less, such as by BoE. Also, as we go on through summer and autumn, there is even danger of blipping down into recession again for election day - if it wasn’t for Taylor Swift coming. What if she slipped off stage in typical English summer, could we still expect economic growth. The way you are telling it, her visit is vital to Tory polling, they need to wrap Tay in cotton wool between performances, and Sunak stand with an umbrella over her, like the scene in WALL-E.

    Interest rate cuts. Correct me where wrong, 5.25 to 5 in June. Rejoice! And 4.5 by years end. That doesn’t shift the political dial on switching to higher mortgage deals quickly enough though does it? in fact quite the opposite those higher deals will have on voters.
    And even those forecasts could go pear shaped. The interest rate forecast is 3 cuts this year, first one in June, taking it from 5.25 to 4.50. But to what extent does this help a government having an election this year, not next spring or next summer, as the switching to higher painful payment plans pissing people properly off happening this year. And that’s even if change isn’t slower than forecast.When it comes to setting internet rates they won’t look solely at inflation moves. Other data to consider is core inflation, wage inflation, and at the moment the £ is too strong, beating 90% of currencies, and this is a problem for the government because our economy is weak at the same time meaning inflationary over demand. One of the problems with economic forecasting is forecasting lag. Like knowing how long will the impact of reboot after covid, like a big cost of living crisis how long till it works out the system with things like wages (inflationary) still going up.

    Energy prices and inflation. Both forecast to be at their sweetest this spring and early summer, and showing upward trends in time for late autumn election.

    What good economic news are you predicting outside of these measures?
    I'm not predicting the broad sunlit uplands! But I'm guessing we will have seen a couple of quarters of low but positive growth, lower inflation than currently, and one rate cut, maybe two. That's not going to move the needle much but to the extent it does it will probably be in the government's favour.
    As you describe it, why not.

    However, what about things moving the needle the other way, to compete with your positive news? Waiting for autumn election for this economic news, it doesn’t come alone. You hold on till later in the year to enjoy the months of better economic news, but it comes with record boat crossings, an interim Covid report, and a million more households saying “how much bigger my mortgage deal?”

    How does it balance on the scales?
    I know the country's full of screwballs but is there any evidence that a single vote will be altered by whether or not these rubber boats get stopped?

    I'm pretty sure it's a hoax.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    ydoethur said:

    Truman said:

    148grss said:

    I see Patriotic Alternative are one of the far-right groups being labelled as extremist today. I have no sympathy with their politics, but as far as I've been able to tell they've pursued an entirely peaceful electoral strategy, which they've persisted with despite achieving very little success. In a way they're a bit endearingly naive*.

    Do we really want to drive such a group underground? What does the government designating then as extremist achieve?

    It's better to have this sort of group as part of the democratic process (where I'd hope they'd continue to fail miserably) rather than shut out and driven to further extremes.

    Does this mean they won't qualify for a free mailshot at the general election?

    And really, can we really hold Patriotic Alternative responsible for making our public debate more extreme? Surely the way in which we've tolerated more mainstream voices in the media who have completely disregarded the difference between fact and fiction has had more of an impact.

    * Although it's possible I've confused them with some other group. There are a lot out there.

    PA like to peddle that they're just an electoral movement, but they are just street fash. I've been at demos opposing PA where their members are swinging fists and sieg heiling - they aren't just another further right wing group. They have also been associated heavily with the riots outside hotels hosting migrants, and the burning of cop cars and the like.
    Yes. Looks like I mixed them up with my memory of this former party, so quite a lot of what I said was wrong, where it applied to that group specifically.

    https://twitter.com/psp_sw
    When I was at university, the Spontaneously Exploding Community did Death To The West quite openly. The Far Right kept on rebranding themselves every five minutes. It was like the scene in Holy Grail - each new organisation had a name that was a variation on the last one.

    We used to keep a list of the variations - both lots were trying to recruit students, so we tried to keep up with the latest fashions in fuckwittery.
    They allowed the far right at your university. Where was that.
    We banned them as they popped up. The University authorities didn't want us to ban the head choppers. And they got irate when the Far Left got claimed by the Polish Society.
    Did they take a shine to them?
    The Polish Society thing was funny. The leader of the Tankies knew I had Polish ancestry, so on the day that later became the Katyn Massacre anniversary (IIRC), he tried coming up to me in the student union and making jokes about murdering Poles. I kept on asking him to speak up.

    Sadly, it turned out the head of the Polish Society was having a quiet drink with a number of friends, just behind the Tankie. guy. Sadly for said Tankies, that is.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639

    Another mess of a government computer system making people's lives a misery.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/mar/14/home-office-immigration-database-errors-hit-more-than-76000-people

    Now imagine that, but for the population born in Britain, and you have a sense of the catastrofuck that would have followed the creation of a National ID card database.

    I don't think the HO quite understand.

    'Such errors are described in the internal Home Office documents as “reputationally damaging for the Home Office and worrying for affected customers when presented with a stranger’s facial image and personal details”.'

    And remember the discussion we had some months back over similar crossed lines when it comes to NI and state pension, and how it was seemingly impossible to un-cross.

  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,551

    Lord Ashcroft has published a poll. I missed it if it was shared here.
    Fieldwork 7-11th March, changes with 8-12th Feb
    CON 23% (-4)
    LAB 45% (+2)
    LDM 6% (-1)
    GRN 8% (nc)
    RFM 11% (+1)

    The LibDem overall national share is meaningless in prediction terms.

    A. If it were 6% in every seat they would get zero seats.
    cf Greens and Reform

    B. If it were 50% in 50 seats and 5% in the other 600, then the average would still be around 6% but they would get about 50 seats.

    The reality is nearer B than A.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    DM_Andy said:

    Leon said:

    Fear not, our state broadcaster is ready to pour soothing oil upon the stormy 'shooting a black woman in a rude not racist way' waters.


    Whereas Sky News invited Shakeel Afsar to say that the law will 'vilify the wrong people'.

    https://news.sky.com/story/governments-new-extremism-definition-will-vilify-the-wrong-people-warn-muslim-organisations-13094043

    He was previously in the news for leading protests against LGBT education in schools:

    https://news.sky.com/story/parents-against-lgbt-lessons-in-school-being-pushed-into-corner-11731820

    And for storming the screening of a film:

    https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/muslim-activists-storm-birmingham-screening-kerala-story/
    That news item is extraordinary. For opinions, they went to CAGE, 5Pillars and Friends of Al Aqsa, which is like writing an article on immigration law then seeking out the wisdom of the KKK, the BNP and Friends of Andrew Tate
    I think the technique there is “allow the extremists some rope and they will find a tree branch to throw it over, tie an noose and place it round their own necks”
    Perhaps inviting them back for the Xth time might suggest this isn't an entirely efficent strategy.
    I am not aware of Melanie Phillips being shown to be a racist - she does have very firm right wing views. This shows the danger of the 'extremism' tag - we are apparently never again supposed to hear from people who express anything more than anodyne central office approved platitudes. Both Melanie Phillips and Diane Abbot should continue to be heard, and screw the stupid people who imply otherwise.
    But only one gets the BBC platform and it's not the one that's actually democratically elected.

    Diane Abbott appeared around 20 times on Question Time in the last decade, and co-hosted a politics programme with Andrew Neil and Michael Portillo from 2003 to 2010.

    She stopped appearing on Question Time because she had a falling out with the BBC over the amount of heckling, not because she was not invited.

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/excl-diane-abbott-could-boycott-bbc-question-time-over-abuse-row
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,851
    The credits on the 'likes' have come back.

    Shame.

    We were half way to getting rid of the Mark Anthonys
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,353
    Roger said:

    Lord Ashcroft has published a poll. I missed it if it was shared here.
    Fieldwork 7-11th March, changes with 8-12th Feb
    CON 23% (-4)
    LAB 45% (+2)
    LDM 6% (-1)
    GRN 8% (nc)
    RFM 11% (+1)

    Good lord!
    We know what is going on, but do we know why? Why down and down against backdrop of giveaway budget warmly received, and inflation beaten, report yesterday of economic growth and mortgage costs falling?

    Is it electorate anger at not getting spring election, or is it Sunak is so not rated now it’s pulling the party to new depths?

    If you know why, let number 10 know, because they can’t do anything about it unless they know why.
    Fwiw I think a backdrop of somewhat better economic news in the next couple of quarters will lift the Tory fortunes enough to rule out some of the more lurid electoral outcomes but not enough to prevent a significant defeat.
    Okay.

    Can you be more specific on the good economic news that shifts the dial upwards for Tories, that’s actually being forecasted and expected?

    Correct me where wrong,

    the growth forecasts are to blip out of technical recession but only by the odd blip we blipped into it - up mere blips hardly supports “we have turned a corner and achieved growth” slogans. In fact the OBR 0.8 growth in 2024 is cherry picking the most optimistic of other forcasts for less, such as by BoE. Also, as we go on through summer and autumn, there is even danger of blipping down into recession again for election day - if it wasn’t for Taylor Swift coming. What if she slipped off stage in typical English summer, could we still expect economic growth. The way you are telling it, her visit is vital to Tory polling, they need to wrap Tay in cotton wool between performances, and Sunak stand with an umbrella over her, like the scene in WALL-E.

    Interest rate cuts. Correct me where wrong, 5.25 to 5 in June. Rejoice! And 4.5 by years end. That doesn’t shift the political dial on switching to higher mortgage deals quickly enough though does it? in fact quite the opposite those higher deals will have on voters.
    And even those forecasts could go pear shaped. The interest rate forecast is 3 cuts this year, first one in June, taking it from 5.25 to 4.50. But to what extent does this help a government having an election this year, not next spring or next summer, as the switching to higher painful payment plans pissing people properly off happening this year. And that’s even if change isn’t slower than forecast.When it comes to setting internet rates they won’t look solely at inflation moves. Other data to consider is core inflation, wage inflation, and at the moment the £ is too strong, beating 90% of currencies, and this is a problem for the government because our economy is weak at the same time meaning inflationary over demand. One of the problems with economic forecasting is forecasting lag. Like knowing how long will the impact of reboot after covid, like a big cost of living crisis how long till it works out the system with things like wages (inflationary) still going up.

    Energy prices and inflation. Both forecast to be at their sweetest this spring and early summer, and showing upward trends in time for late autumn election.

    What good economic news are you predicting outside of these measures?
    I'm not predicting the broad sunlit uplands! But I'm guessing we will have seen a couple of quarters of low but positive growth, lower inflation than currently, and one rate cut, maybe two. That's not going to move the needle much but to the extent it does it will probably be in the government's favour.
    As you describe it, why not.

    However, what about things moving the needle the other way, to compete with your positive news? Waiting for autumn election for this economic news, it doesn’t come alone. You hold on till later in the year to enjoy the months of better economic news, but it comes with record boat crossings, an interim Covid report, and a million more households saying “how much bigger my mortgage deal?”

    How does it balance on the scales?
    I know the country's full of screwballs but is there any evidence that a single vote will be altered by whether or not these rubber boats get stopped?
    Good question, serious answer - as a political party on 24% in the polls it’s not 76% of voters you are concentrating on, just the the 8% of them whose votes can still be altered over this. On the last forced choice poll, the Conservatives are on 31% - so pollsters already giving these 8% back, but cheese off that 8% this summer and you stay at 25% for the election.

    I don’t think I can describe how it’s going to work, any better than that.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    Roger said:

    The credits on the 'likes' have come back.

    Shame.

    We were half way to getting rid of the Mark Anthonys

    Are you asking us to cease a desist?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,668
    Amazing thread on “lucky” photographs

    https://x.com/jameslucasit/status/1764356873564594511?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    “Photographs taken in the right place at the right time, intentionally or by chance - a thread 🧵

    1. Wilma Hurskainen”
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,177
    Roger said:

    The credits on the 'likes' have come back.

    Shame.

    We were half way to getting rid of the Mark Anthonys

    Is that a term in common use? Never heard of it and have no idea what it means!
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,898

    It looks like Starship didn't survive reentry. Not too surprising, I think. It must be very difficult to accurately simulate the conditions that a large, unusually shaped vehicle will encounter at reentry speeds, and is obviously impossible to recreate them experimentally.

    Edit: Hopefully they got enough data during reentry to be able to figure out why the ship didn't manage it.

    Are they planning on clearing up all the mess they've made?
    NASA too, littering all over the Moon's surface!
  • TrumanTruman Posts: 279
    Just seen this from Nadine Dorries.

    Rumours are spreading that Rishi about to call a GE. Could be Westminster frenzy or maybe he’s going to jump before he’s pushed?

    If he did jump, MPs would move against him before he reached the palace gates.

    https://x.com/NadineDorries/status/1768254046488428706?s=20
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,678
    Truman said:

    Just seen this from Nadine Dorries.

    Rumours are spreading that Rishi about to call a GE. Could be Westminster frenzy or maybe he’s going to jump before he’s pushed?

    If he did jump, MPs would move against him before he reached the palace gates.

    https://x.com/NadineDorries/status/1768254046488428706?s=20

    Dorries living in her own world again.

    If Sunak was going to be pushed, why wait? And calling an election you're going to get hammered in is an odd way of 'not being pushed', given that he would be pushed by both country and party.

    Plus, she's completely wrong on the second point. If Sunak did call an election, MPs would rally to the flag; they wouldn't really have an option.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,668
    It is now 10am and 31C and “feels like” 43C

    It is deeply uncomfortable. It is also profoundly strange because I am 100 yards from the sea. I don’t think I’ve ever experienced such intense heat right by the ocean. It should always be a cooling influence?

    Fuck knows what it is like inland
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,353
    edited March 14
    I got a winner! 🐎

    Phew. That was hard work though.

    Thursday afternoon for just my 4th winner of the festival. 🫣 This is hard work.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,668
    So my take on climate change is this: everywhere in the world is going to get hotter and hotter… apart from the UK which will, uniquely, contrive to get greyer and rainier and even more dismal

    Oh well. At least it should discourage the boat people
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,080
    edited March 14
    Leon said:

    It is now 10am and 31C and “feels like” 43C

    It is deeply uncomfortable. It is also profoundly strange because I am 100 yards from the sea. I don’t think I’ve ever experienced such intense heat right by the ocean. It should always be a cooling influence?

    Fuck knows what it is like inland

    SSTs off the northern coast of Colombia are ~28C, so the air temperature certainly isn't much warmer.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639
    Leon said:

    So my take on climate change is this: everywhere in the world is going to get hotter and hotter… apart from the UK which will, uniquely, contrive to get greyer and rainier and even more dismal

    Oh well. At least it should discourage the boat people

    Er ...
  • DonkeysDonkeys Posts: 723
    Leon said:

    It is now 10am and 31C and “feels like” 43C

    It is deeply uncomfortable. It is also profoundly strange because I am 100 yards from the sea. I don’t think I’ve ever experienced such intense heat right by the ocean. It should always be a cooling influence?

    Fuck knows what it is like inland

    Keep us posted on how you feel as the day goes on.
    Or maybe better, bottle it all up.
    FFS!
  • TrumanTruman Posts: 279
    Leon said:

    So my take on climate change is this: everywhere in the world is going to get hotter and hotter… apart from the UK which will, uniquely, contrive to get greyer and rainier and even more dismal

    Oh well. At least it should discourage the boat people

    I agree. Our winters are getting warmer but wetter and more miserable and our summers warmer but cloudier. Still one of the most dismal climates for its latitude in the world is Lima which despite being in the Tropics manages to be under constant grey 8 months of the year.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,313

    Truman said:

    Just seen this from Nadine Dorries.

    Rumours are spreading that Rishi about to call a GE. Could be Westminster frenzy or maybe he’s going to jump before he’s pushed?

    If he did jump, MPs would move against him before he reached the palace gates.

    https://x.com/NadineDorries/status/1768254046488428706?s=20

    Dorries living in her own world again.

    If Sunak was going to be pushed, why wait? And calling an election you're going to get hammered in is an odd way of 'not being pushed', given that he would be pushed by both country and party.

    Plus, she's completely wrong on the second point. If Sunak did call an election, MPs would rally to the flag; they wouldn't really have an option.
    I fear you've fallen into the trap of thinking that anything tweeted by Dorries is even worthy of a response. It isn't.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,080
    Leon said:

    So my take on climate change is this: everywhere in the world is going to get hotter and hotter… apart from the UK which will, uniquely, contrive to get greyer and rainier and even more dismal

    Oh well. At least it should discourage the boat people

    In all seriousness that is a very possible scenario if the Atlantic Meridional Overturning Circulation collapses.

    One plus point of Britain's location is that we're close enough to Greenland that we won't suffer much sea level rise from it melting (because the gravitational effect will cancel out).
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,720
    Leon said:

    So my take on climate change is this: everywhere in the world is going to get hotter and hotter… apart from the UK which will, uniquely, contrive to get greyer and rainier and even more dismal

    Oh well. At least it should discourage the boat people

    We are also getting hotter. And moderately sunnier, but from a low base. But slightly rainier though in more intense bursts.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,182

    eek said:

    Reasons why this Government is going to do badly up north No 154365

    https://www.bromley.gov.uk/news/article/669/made-possible-by-reallocated-hs2-funding

    Yes that is leafy Bromley council (in south London/ Kent) getting money from the cancellation of train route from Manchester to North London

    Part of Greater London since 1965.
    Far too often, after the dread phrase "my nephew lives in London", the answer to the next obvious question turns out to be "Bromley".
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,305

    Truman said:

    Just seen this from Nadine Dorries.

    Rumours are spreading that Rishi about to call a GE. Could be Westminster frenzy or maybe he’s going to jump before he’s pushed?

    If he did jump, MPs would move against him before he reached the palace gates.

    https://x.com/NadineDorries/status/1768254046488428706?s=20

    Dorries living in her own world again.

    If Sunak was going to be pushed, why wait? And calling an election you're going to get hammered in is an odd way of 'not being pushed', given that he would be pushed by both country and party.

    Plus, she's completely wrong on the second point. If Sunak did call an election, MPs would rally to the flag; they wouldn't really have an option.
    I fear you've fallen into the trap of thinking that anything tweeted by Dorries is even worthy of a response. It isn't.
    The only slightly interesting question is whether she's stirring the pot at the behest of Boris.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,353
    edited March 14

    No one saw that coming 🐎

    Kinabalu about to say, this Cheltenham is so one sided - can’t the Irish compete 😈
    And arn’t I pleased the Irish have turned up on Thursday 😆
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,668
    Donkeys said:

    Leon said:

    It is now 10am and 31C and “feels like” 43C

    It is deeply uncomfortable. It is also profoundly strange because I am 100 yards from the sea. I don’t think I’ve ever experienced such intense heat right by the ocean. It should always be a cooling influence?

    Fuck knows what it is like inland

    Keep us posted on how you feel as the day goes on.
    Or maybe better, bottle it all up.
    FFS!
    Wilko

    It’s still 31C as of now but I’ll let you know as soon as it changes

    It’s so hot the locals are just “standing in the sea”. Not swimming or disporting, just trying to keep cool


  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,415
    Donkeys said:
    Oh, so that's why they didn't try spinning a "we'll refuse any further donations" line...

    FFS.

    It also demonstrates that there's no firewall between fundraising and the leadership - Sunak clearly knew about this.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,177
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    So my take on climate change is this: everywhere in the world is going to get hotter and hotter… apart from the UK which will, uniquely, contrive to get greyer and rainier and even more dismal

    Oh well. At least it should discourage the boat people

    We are also getting hotter. And moderately sunnier, but from a low base. But slightly rainier though in more intense bursts.
    I know its weather and not climate but my god we could do with some sunshine in the UK right now. Feels like its been grey and overcast for months.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,668
    edited March 14
    Truman said:

    Leon said:

    So my take on climate change is this: everywhere in the world is going to get hotter and hotter… apart from the UK which will, uniquely, contrive to get greyer and rainier and even more dismal

    Oh well. At least it should discourage the boat people

    I agree. Our winters are getting warmer but wetter and more miserable and our summers warmer but cloudier. Still one of the most dismal climates for its latitude in the world is Lima which despite being in the Tropics manages to be under constant grey 8 months of the year.
    Indeed. Lima manages to be climatically way more miserable than anywhere in the UK, which is quite a feat given its location. It always annoys me when I read history books or guide books that reference Lima and don’t mention this fairly notable affliction

    Why the fuck did the Spanish build their capital there? The incans very sensibly chose sunny and refreshing Cusco

    Possibly the worst “place” I have ever been - in terms of climate meeting geography - is the desert north of Lima. The Sechura. It’s a dismal grey sand desert, strewn with trash, and cursed with that same cruel and depressing climate - chilly grey cloud like Glasgow but without the chirpy locals

    Also shit food and a history of urgent child sacrifice

  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,177

    Leon said:

    So my take on climate change is this: everywhere in the world is going to get hotter and hotter… apart from the UK which will, uniquely, contrive to get greyer and rainier and even more dismal

    Oh well. At least it should discourage the boat people

    In all seriousness that is a very possible scenario if the Atlantic Meridional Overturning Circulation collapses.

    One plus point of Britain's location is that we're close enough to Greenland that we won't suffer much sea level rise from it melting (because the gravitational effect will cancel out).
    I think more recent work has cast doubt on the AMOC overturning any time soon (and 2012 was very out).
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,313
    Donkeys said:
    From that Sky report:

    Businessman Frank Hester allegedly told staff that the MP made him "want to hate all black women" and "should be shot".
    Mr Hester said he was "deeply sorry" for the remarks, but insisted they had "nothing to do with her gender nor colour of skin".


    Mr Hester clearly believes that the phrase "black women" has nothing to do with gender or colour of skin. Baffling.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,571

    NON-ANONYMOUS "LIKES" ARE BACK!

    Indeed, thanks to TSE. A good day indeed.

    Now if I could just get Command & F working again for PB.com in Safari, I'd be nearly as happy as I hope to be on election night.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,720
    edited March 14

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    So my take on climate change is this: everywhere in the world is going to get hotter and hotter… apart from the UK which will, uniquely, contrive to get greyer and rainier and even more dismal

    Oh well. At least it should discourage the boat people

    We are also getting hotter. And moderately sunnier, but from a low base. But slightly rainier though in more intense bursts.
    I know its weather and not climate but my god we could do with some sunshine in the UK right now. Feels like its been grey and overcast for months.
    You’re not wrong, if you live England or Wales.

    This page shows just how wet and cloudy it’s been this winter, despite (or indeed contributing to) the unusual warmth.

    https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/about-us/press-office/news/weather-and-climate/2024/february-2024-warm-and-wet-for-the-uk
  • DonkeysDonkeys Posts: 723
    edited March 14
    So this is the Frank Hester that everyone's talking about:

    image

    (This hasn't been Kated. Source: https://news.sky.com/story/healthcare-tycoon-hester-swells-tory-election-warchest-with-5m-donation-12955621 ).
  • TrumanTruman Posts: 279
    Leon said:

    Truman said:

    Leon said:

    So my take on climate change is this: everywhere in the world is going to get hotter and hotter… apart from the UK which will, uniquely, contrive to get greyer and rainier and even more dismal

    Oh well. At least it should discourage the boat people

    I agree. Our winters are getting warmer but wetter and more miserable and our summers warmer but cloudier. Still one of the most dismal climates for its latitude in the world is Lima which despite being in the Tropics manages to be under constant grey 8 months of the year.
    Indeed. Lima manages to be climatically way more miserable than anywhere in the UK, which is quite a feat given its location. It always annoys me when I read history books or guide books that reference Lima and don’t mention this fairly notable affliction

    Why the fuck did the Spanish build their capital there? The incans very sensibly chose sunny and refreshing Cusco

    Possibly the worst “place” I have ever been - in terms of climate meeting geography - is the desert north of Lima. The Sechura. It’s a dismal grey sand desert, strewn with trash, and cursed with that same cruel and depressing climate - chilly grey cloud like Glasgow but without the chirpy locals

    Also shit food and a history of urgent child sacrifice

    One of the worst drives of my life was in the desert north of lima stuck with a mad driver driving like a maniac on a narrow road and swerving at the last minute to avoid oncoming traffic. And yes its bleak and the locals are miserable.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,736
    Barnesian said:

    Lord Ashcroft has published a poll. I missed it if it was shared here.
    Fieldwork 7-11th March, changes with 8-12th Feb
    CON 23% (-4)
    LAB 45% (+2)
    LDM 6% (-1)
    GRN 8% (nc)
    RFM 11% (+1)

    The LibDem overall national share is meaningless in prediction terms.

    A. If it were 6% in every seat they would get zero seats.
    cf Greens and Reform

    B. If it were 50% in 50 seats and 5% in the other 600, then the average would still be around 6% but they would get about 50 seats.

    The reality is nearer B than A.
    Given that the Lib Dem share of the vote in that poll is about half of what it was in 2019, when the Lib Dems won just 11 seats, perhaps you need to provide some evidence to back up your clain.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639
    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    So my take on climate change is this: everywhere in the world is going to get hotter and hotter… apart from the UK which will, uniquely, contrive to get greyer and rainier and even more dismal

    Oh well. At least it should discourage the boat people

    We are also getting hotter. And moderately sunnier, but from a low base. But slightly rainier though in more intense bursts.
    I know its weather and not climate but my god we could do with some sunshine in the UK right now. Feels like its been grey and overcast for months.
    You’re not wrong, if you live in the South or Midlands.

    This page shows just how wet and cloudy it’s been this winter, despite (or indeed contributing to) the unusual warmth.

    https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/about-us/press-office/news/weather-and-climate/2024/february-2024-warm-and-wet-for-the-uk
    *notices how much of Scotland has been actually sunnier and drier than usual, pace Glaswegist abuse on PB*
  • TrumanTruman Posts: 279
    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    So my take on climate change is this: everywhere in the world is going to get hotter and hotter… apart from the UK which will, uniquely, contrive to get greyer and rainier and even more dismal

    Oh well. At least it should discourage the boat people

    We are also getting hotter. And moderately sunnier, but from a low base. But slightly rainier though in more intense bursts.
    I know its weather and not climate but my god we could do with some sunshine in the UK right now. Feels like its been grey and overcast for months.
    You’re not wrong, if you live England or Wales.

    This page shows just how wet and cloudy it’s been this winter, despite (or indeed contributing to) the unusual warmth.

    https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/about-us/press-office/news/weather-and-climate/2024/february-2024-warm-and-wet-for-the-uk
    Conspiracy theorists reckon the govt are spraying the skies to create these miserable weather patterns to lower our mood.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947

    Truman said:

    Just seen this from Nadine Dorries.

    Rumours are spreading that Rishi about to call a GE. Could be Westminster frenzy or maybe he’s going to jump before he’s pushed?

    If he did jump, MPs would move against him before he reached the palace gates.

    https://x.com/NadineDorries/status/1768254046488428706?s=20

    Dorries living in her own world again.

    If Sunak was going to be pushed, why wait? And calling an election you're going to get hammered in is an odd way of 'not being pushed', given that he would be pushed by both country and party.

    Plus, she's completely wrong on the second point. If Sunak did call an election, MPs would rally to the flag; they wouldn't really have an option.
    I fear you've fallen into the trap of thinking that anything tweeted by Dorries is even worthy of a response. It isn't.
    The only slightly interesting question is whether she's stirring the pot at the behest of Boris.
    I'd have thought so. Or at least what she guesses would be his behest even if he hasn't actually behested. Nadine Dorries has a Great Love for Boris. Such a love does not behave within rational parameters. It is wild. An unchained melody.
  • Donkeys said:
    Hester made page one of private eye this week. His company has a profit margin of circa 50% and most (if not all) of its revenue is from the NHS. Funnily enough he has enough cash to punt to the party of Government.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,668
    Truman said:

    Leon said:

    Truman said:

    Leon said:

    So my take on climate change is this: everywhere in the world is going to get hotter and hotter… apart from the UK which will, uniquely, contrive to get greyer and rainier and even more dismal

    Oh well. At least it should discourage the boat people

    I agree. Our winters are getting warmer but wetter and more miserable and our summers warmer but cloudier. Still one of the most dismal climates for its latitude in the world is Lima which despite being in the Tropics manages to be under constant grey 8 months of the year.
    Indeed. Lima manages to be climatically way more miserable than anywhere in the UK, which is quite a feat given its location. It always annoys me when I read history books or guide books that reference Lima and don’t mention this fairly notable affliction

    Why the fuck did the Spanish build their capital there? The incans very sensibly chose sunny and refreshing Cusco

    Possibly the worst “place” I have ever been - in terms of climate meeting geography - is the desert north of Lima. The Sechura. It’s a dismal grey sand desert, strewn with trash, and cursed with that same cruel and depressing climate - chilly grey cloud like Glasgow but without the chirpy locals

    Also shit food and a history of urgent child sacrifice

    One of the worst drives of my life was in the desert north of lima stuck with a mad driver driving like a maniac on a narrow road and swerving at the last minute to avoid oncoming traffic. And yes its bleak and the locals are miserable.
    I took this photo on a beach in deserty northern Peru as it seemed to summarise the whole place



    However the little colonial towns do have a certain charm, under those sparkling blue skies



  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947

    No one saw that coming 🐎

    Kinabalu about to say, this Cheltenham is so one sided - can’t the Irish compete 😈
    And arn’t I pleased the Irish have turned up on Thursday 😆
    I had that one too. I'm up now (just).
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,313
    edited March 14
    kinabalu said:

    Truman said:

    Just seen this from Nadine Dorries.

    Rumours are spreading that Rishi about to call a GE. Could be Westminster frenzy or maybe he’s going to jump before he’s pushed?

    If he did jump, MPs would move against him before he reached the palace gates.

    https://x.com/NadineDorries/status/1768254046488428706?s=20

    Dorries living in her own world again.

    If Sunak was going to be pushed, why wait? And calling an election you're going to get hammered in is an odd way of 'not being pushed', given that he would be pushed by both country and party.

    Plus, she's completely wrong on the second point. If Sunak did call an election, MPs would rally to the flag; they wouldn't really have an option.
    I fear you've fallen into the trap of thinking that anything tweeted by Dorries is even worthy of a response. It isn't.
    The only slightly interesting question is whether she's stirring the pot at the behest of Boris.
    I'd have thought so. Or at least what she guesses would be his behest even if he hasn't actually behested. Nadine Dorries has a Great Love for Boris. Such a love does not behave within rational parameters. It is wild. An unchained melody.
    Yes, the love between Dorries and Boris is only rivalled in modern times by that between our very own TSE and Dave Cameron.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,076
    Interesting idea at https://unherd.com/newsroom/are-the-tories-ready-for-rishis-resignation/

    What happens if instead of fighting a no confidence vote (or even before the letters are in) Rishi walks away
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,863
    Truman said:

    148grss said:

    I see Patriotic Alternative are one of the far-right groups being labelled as extremist today. I have no sympathy with their politics, but as far as I've been able to tell they've pursued an entirely peaceful electoral strategy, which they've persisted with despite achieving very little success. In a way they're a bit endearingly naive*.

    Do we really want to drive such a group underground? What does the government designating then as extremist achieve?

    It's better to have this sort of group as part of the democratic process (where I'd hope they'd continue to fail miserably) rather than shut out and driven to further extremes.

    Does this mean they won't qualify for a free mailshot at the general election?

    And really, can we really hold Patriotic Alternative responsible for making our public debate more extreme? Surely the way in which we've tolerated more mainstream voices in the media who have completely disregarded the difference between fact and fiction has had more of an impact.

    * Although it's possible I've confused them with some other group. There are a lot out there.

    PA like to peddle that they're just an electoral movement, but they are just street fash. I've been at demos opposing PA where their members are swinging fists and sieg heiling - they aren't just another further right wing group. They have also been associated heavily with the riots outside hotels hosting migrants, and the burning of cop cars and the like.
    Yes. Looks like I mixed them up with my memory of this former party, so quite a lot of what I said was wrong, where it applied to that group specifically.

    https://twitter.com/psp_sw
    When I was at university, the Spontaneously Exploding Community did Death To The West quite openly. The Far Right kept on rebranding themselves every five minutes. It was like the scene in Holy Grail - each new organisation had a name that was a variation on the last one.

    We used to keep a list of the variations - both lots were trying to recruit students, so we tried to keep up with the latest fashions in fuckwittery.
    They allowed the far right at your university. Where was that.
    They allow the far right in every university. What tends to happen, though, is that universities tend to be excessively cautious about renting out facilities to more right wing organizations.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,851
    edited March 14
    OT. A few weeks ago I recommended 'Zone of Interest' as one of my favourite films of the year. A film about the holocaust without actually seeing any direct horror. A particularly intelligent and thought provoking film which won the Palme d'Or at Cannes and a Best Foreign Language Oscar. I would put it in the top two films about the holocaust that I've seen.

    The English director Jonathan Glazer made what most people would consider a very passionate acceptance speech where he asked people to remember October 7th and what the Gazans are going through now. Jonathan Glazer being Jewish has apparently not understood his own film and the Jewish lobby and fellow travellers are now metaphorically crucifying him

    https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/jonathan-glazer-oscar-speech-israel-hamas-b2512400.html

  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,720
    Carnyx said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    So my take on climate change is this: everywhere in the world is going to get hotter and hotter… apart from the UK which will, uniquely, contrive to get greyer and rainier and even more dismal

    Oh well. At least it should discourage the boat people

    We are also getting hotter. And moderately sunnier, but from a low base. But slightly rainier though in more intense bursts.
    I know its weather and not climate but my god we could do with some sunshine in the UK right now. Feels like its been grey and overcast for months.
    You’re not wrong, if you live in the South or Midlands.

    This page shows just how wet and cloudy it’s been this winter, despite (or indeed contributing to) the unusual warmth.

    https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/about-us/press-office/news/weather-and-climate/2024/february-2024-warm-and-wet-for-the-uk
    *notices how much of Scotland has been actually sunnier and drier than usual, pace Glaswegist abuse on PB*
    “Than usual” being an important qualifier here.

    Actual sunshine hours for Scotland 138.4, vs 153.3 for England. Both abject of course, though not as bad as Wales’ 122.7. Duller even than 20mph zone discourse.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,863
    Leon said:

    Truman said:

    Leon said:

    Truman said:

    Leon said:

    So my take on climate change is this: everywhere in the world is going to get hotter and hotter… apart from the UK which will, uniquely, contrive to get greyer and rainier and even more dismal

    Oh well. At least it should discourage the boat people

    I agree. Our winters are getting warmer but wetter and more miserable and our summers warmer but cloudier. Still one of the most dismal climates for its latitude in the world is Lima which despite being in the Tropics manages to be under constant grey 8 months of the year.
    Indeed. Lima manages to be climatically way more miserable than anywhere in the UK, which is quite a feat given its location. It always annoys me when I read history books or guide books that reference Lima and don’t mention this fairly notable affliction

    Why the fuck did the Spanish build their capital there? The incans very sensibly chose sunny and refreshing Cusco

    Possibly the worst “place” I have ever been - in terms of climate meeting geography - is the desert north of Lima. The Sechura. It’s a dismal grey sand desert, strewn with trash, and cursed with that same cruel and depressing climate - chilly grey cloud like Glasgow but without the chirpy locals

    Also shit food and a history of urgent child sacrifice

    One of the worst drives of my life was in the desert north of lima stuck with a mad driver driving like a maniac on a narrow road and swerving at the last minute to avoid oncoming traffic. And yes its bleak and the locals are miserable.
    I took this photo on a beach in deserty northern Peru as it seemed to summarise the whole place



    However the little colonial towns do have a certain charm, under those sparkling blue skies



    Very Quantum of Solace.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,668
    edited March 14
    TimS said:

    Carnyx said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    So my take on climate change is this: everywhere in the world is going to get hotter and hotter… apart from the UK which will, uniquely, contrive to get greyer and rainier and even more dismal

    Oh well. At least it should discourage the boat people

    We are also getting hotter. And moderately sunnier, but from a low base. But slightly rainier though in more intense bursts.
    I know its weather and not climate but my god we could do with some sunshine in the UK right now. Feels like its been grey and overcast for months.
    You’re not wrong, if you live in the South or Midlands.

    This page shows just how wet and cloudy it’s been this winter, despite (or indeed contributing to) the unusual warmth.

    https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/about-us/press-office/news/weather-and-climate/2024/february-2024-warm-and-wet-for-the-uk
    *notices how much of Scotland has been actually sunnier and drier than usual, pace Glaswegist abuse on PB*
    “Than usual” being an important qualifier here.

    Actual sunshine hours for Scotland 138.4, vs 153.3 for England. Both abject of course, though not as bad as Wales’ 122.7. Duller even than 20mph zone discourse.
    I just read your MetOffice link. So I’m not imagining it. The British climate is actually getting WORSE

    lol

    On the other hand I have only spent 2 days there since the end of December so I should perhaps not moan

    And it is still nicer than northern Peru. Visit Britain should use that as a slogan

  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,668
    edited March 14
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Truman said:

    Leon said:

    Truman said:

    Leon said:

    So my take on climate change is this: everywhere in the world is going to get hotter and hotter… apart from the UK which will, uniquely, contrive to get greyer and rainier and even more dismal

    Oh well. At least it should discourage the boat people

    I agree. Our winters are getting warmer but wetter and more miserable and our summers warmer but cloudier. Still one of the most dismal climates for its latitude in the world is Lima which despite being in the Tropics manages to be under constant grey 8 months of the year.
    Indeed. Lima manages to be climatically way more miserable than anywhere in the UK, which is quite a feat given its location. It always annoys me when I read history books or guide books that reference Lima and don’t mention this fairly notable affliction

    Why the fuck did the Spanish build their capital there? The incans very sensibly chose sunny and refreshing Cusco

    Possibly the worst “place” I have ever been - in terms of climate meeting geography - is the desert north of Lima. The Sechura. It’s a dismal grey sand desert, strewn with trash, and cursed with that same cruel and depressing climate - chilly grey cloud like Glasgow but without the chirpy locals

    Also shit food and a history of urgent child sacrifice

    One of the worst drives of my life was in the desert north of lima stuck with a mad driver driving like a maniac on a narrow road and swerving at the last minute to avoid oncoming traffic. And yes its bleak and the locals are miserable.
    I took this photo on a beach in deserty northern Peru as it seemed to summarise the whole place



    However the little colonial towns do have a certain charm, under those sparkling blue skies



    Very Quantum of Solace.
    Imagine living on that street in the second photo. Wake up, put your head out of the door, hang yourself

    A pre-Colombian culture flourished there. The Moche. The most hideous of all South American civilisations. They used to mutilate themselves by cutting off their own lips, noses, feet

    They would have prolonged gay anal sex in groups while watching their own relatives get slowly sacrificed. Also fond of forcing pumas to rape their women

    I’ve always wondered how much influence the climate played in this. If Britain does develop the climate of northern Peru we can expect a lot more forced bestiality, it will probably start in Oban or Ullapool
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,853
    TimS said:

    Carnyx said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    So my take on climate change is this: everywhere in the world is going to get hotter and hotter… apart from the UK which will, uniquely, contrive to get greyer and rainier and even more dismal

    Oh well. At least it should discourage the boat people

    We are also getting hotter. And moderately sunnier, but from a low base. But slightly rainier though in more intense bursts.
    I know its weather and not climate but my god we could do with some sunshine in the UK right now. Feels like its been grey and overcast for months.
    You’re not wrong, if you live in the South or Midlands.

    This page shows just how wet and cloudy it’s been this winter, despite (or indeed contributing to) the unusual warmth.

    https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/about-us/press-office/news/weather-and-climate/2024/february-2024-warm-and-wet-for-the-uk
    *notices how much of Scotland has been actually sunnier and drier than usual, pace Glaswegist abuse on PB*
    “Than usual” being an important qualifier here.

    Actual sunshine hours for Scotland 138.4, vs 153.3 for England. Both abject of course, though not as bad as Wales’ 122.7. Duller even than 20mph zone discourse.
    By this point last year my panels had generated roughly 540 kwh of leccy. This year we're at 380.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,668
    However, if you FORCE a puma to rape your wife, is that technically rape? The puma doesn’t WANT to rape your wife so there is no mens rea, your wife is only “raped” by the puma because you bullied the puma into doing the rape thing

    Tricky. Perhaps @DavidL can enlighten us on the legal technicalities, he may have encountered a similar case in Dundee
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,080
    Leon said:

    However, if you FORCE a puma to rape your wife, is that technically rape? The puma doesn’t WANT to rape your wife so there is no mens rea, your wife is only “raped” by the puma because you bullied the puma into doing the rape thing

    Tricky. Perhaps @DavidL can enlighten us on the legal technicalities, he may have encountered a similar case in Dundee

    The Puma isn't considered to be criminally responsible (but would probably be summarily destroyed regardless) but you would be considered to have committed the rape using the Puma as your means of doing so.

    Anyway. I'm suddenly very glad you're divorced.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,353
    Is this horse racing, or a Football Premiership veterans contest 🤦‍♀️
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Truman said:

    Leon said:

    Truman said:

    Leon said:

    So my take on climate change is this: everywhere in the world is going to get hotter and hotter… apart from the UK which will, uniquely, contrive to get greyer and rainier and even more dismal

    Oh well. At least it should discourage the boat people

    I agree. Our winters are getting warmer but wetter and more miserable and our summers warmer but cloudier. Still one of the most dismal climates for its latitude in the world is Lima which despite being in the Tropics manages to be under constant grey 8 months of the year.
    Indeed. Lima manages to be climatically way more miserable than anywhere in the UK, which is quite a feat given its location. It always annoys me when I read history books or guide books that reference Lima and don’t mention this fairly notable affliction

    Why the fuck did the Spanish build their capital there? The incans very sensibly chose sunny and refreshing Cusco

    Possibly the worst “place” I have ever been - in terms of climate meeting geography - is the desert north of Lima. The Sechura. It’s a dismal grey sand desert, strewn with trash, and cursed with that same cruel and depressing climate - chilly grey cloud like Glasgow but without the chirpy locals

    Also shit food and a history of urgent child sacrifice

    One of the worst drives of my life was in the desert north of lima stuck with a mad driver driving like a maniac on a narrow road and swerving at the last minute to avoid oncoming traffic. And yes its bleak and the locals are miserable.
    I took this photo on a beach in deserty northern Peru as it seemed to summarise the whole place



    However the little colonial towns do have a certain charm, under those sparkling blue skies



    Very Quantum of Solace.
    Or Fistful of Dollars. I was looking for Clint and his mule.

    "My mistake. Four coffins."
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,412
    Leon said:

    However, if you FORCE a puma to rape your wife, is that technically rape? The puma doesn’t WANT to rape your wife so there is no mens rea, your wife is only “raped” by the puma because you bullied the puma into doing the rape thing

    Tricky. Perhaps @DavidL can enlighten us on the legal technicalities, he may have encountered a similar case in Dundee

    What happens if your wife is a bit of a cougar?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,751
    edited March 14
    Leon said:

    Truman said:

    Leon said:

    Truman said:

    Leon said:

    So my take on climate change is this: everywhere in the world is going to get hotter and hotter… apart from the UK which will, uniquely, contrive to get greyer and rainier and even more dismal

    Oh well. At least it should discourage the boat people

    I agree. Our winters are getting warmer but wetter and more miserable and our summers warmer but cloudier. Still one of the most dismal climates for its latitude in the world is Lima which despite being in the Tropics manages to be under constant grey 8 months of the year.
    Indeed. Lima manages to be climatically way more miserable than anywhere in the UK, which is quite a feat given its location. It always annoys me when I read history books or guide books that reference Lima and don’t mention this fairly notable affliction

    Why the fuck did the Spanish build their capital there? The incans very sensibly chose sunny and refreshing Cusco

    Possibly the worst “place” I have ever been - in terms of climate meeting geography - is the desert north of Lima. The Sechura. It’s a dismal grey sand desert, strewn with trash, and cursed with that same cruel and depressing climate - chilly grey cloud like Glasgow but without the chirpy locals

    Also shit food and a history of urgent child sacrifice

    One of the worst drives of my life was in the desert north of lima stuck with a mad driver driving like a maniac on a narrow road and swerving at the last minute to avoid oncoming traffic. And yes its bleak and the locals are miserable.
    I took this photo on a beach in deserty northern Peru as it seemed to summarise the whole place



    However the little colonial towns do have a certain charm, under those sparkling blue skies



    There is absolutely nothing charming about either picture. The bottom one looks like a set for some dystopian mini-series.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,353

    Donkeys said:
    Hester made page one of private eye this week. His company has a profit margin of circa 50% and most (if not all) of its revenue is from the NHS. Funnily enough he has enough cash to punt to the party of Government.
    Yes, and this illustrates why another PM would not help the Tories. It is quite incredible that the PM apparently sees nothing wrong with accepting money and even free helicopter ride from someone who has done so well out of contracts awarded by the public sector. There really has been nothing like this in British politics since the 18th century - government has become an exercise in ripping off the public for the personal enrichment of those on the inside track. And the public has rumbled them and is about to take revenge.
    18th Century Britannia? Nah. This is Soviet Union gangsterism.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,668

    Leon said:

    However, if you FORCE a puma to rape your wife, is that technically rape? The puma doesn’t WANT to rape your wife so there is no mens rea, your wife is only “raped” by the puma because you bullied the puma into doing the rape thing

    Tricky. Perhaps @DavidL can enlighten us on the legal technicalities, he may have encountered a similar case in Dundee

    The Puma isn't considered to be criminally responsible (but would probably be summarily destroyed regardless) but you would be considered to have committed the rape using the Puma as your means of doing so.

    Anyway. I'm suddenly very glad you're divorced.
    So you actually get the rap even tho the puma did the rape??

    Wow. That seems brutal. But better to know now than when it’s too late and I’m up in front of the beak. Again
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,736

    Donkeys said:
    Hester made page one of private eye this week. His company has a profit margin of circa 50% and most (if not all) of its revenue is from the NHS. Funnily enough he has enough cash to punt to the party of Government.
    Yes, and this illustrates why another PM would not help the Tories. It is quite incredible that the PM apparently sees nothing wrong with accepting money and even free helicopter ride from someone who has done so well out of contracts awarded by the public sector. There really has been nothing like this in British politics since the 18th century - government has become an exercise in ripping off the public for the personal enrichment of those on the inside track. And the public has rumbled them and is about to take revenge.
    But the political row is about a racist statement, not a rake-off. Perhaps the real moral of this issue is that the public hasn't cottoned on to the corruption, but is more interested in the things that excite interest on social media (which is probably no more than stating the obvious).
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    a
    rcs1000 said:

    Truman said:

    148grss said:

    I see Patriotic Alternative are one of the far-right groups being labelled as extremist today. I have no sympathy with their politics, but as far as I've been able to tell they've pursued an entirely peaceful electoral strategy, which they've persisted with despite achieving very little success. In a way they're a bit endearingly naive*.

    Do we really want to drive such a group underground? What does the government designating then as extremist achieve?

    It's better to have this sort of group as part of the democratic process (where I'd hope they'd continue to fail miserably) rather than shut out and driven to further extremes.

    Does this mean they won't qualify for a free mailshot at the general election?

    And really, can we really hold Patriotic Alternative responsible for making our public debate more extreme? Surely the way in which we've tolerated more mainstream voices in the media who have completely disregarded the difference between fact and fiction has had more of an impact.

    * Although it's possible I've confused them with some other group. There are a lot out there.

    PA like to peddle that they're just an electoral movement, but they are just street fash. I've been at demos opposing PA where their members are swinging fists and sieg heiling - they aren't just another further right wing group. They have also been associated heavily with the riots outside hotels hosting migrants, and the burning of cop cars and the like.
    Yes. Looks like I mixed them up with my memory of this former party, so quite a lot of what I said was wrong, where it applied to that group specifically.

    https://twitter.com/psp_sw
    When I was at university, the Spontaneously Exploding Community did Death To The West quite openly. The Far Right kept on rebranding themselves every five minutes. It was like the scene in Holy Grail - each new organisation had a name that was a variation on the last one.

    We used to keep a list of the variations - both lots were trying to recruit students, so we tried to keep up with the latest fashions in fuckwittery.
    They allowed the far right at your university. Where was that.
    They allow the far right in every university. What tends to happen, though, is that universities tend to be excessively cautious about renting out facilities to more right wing organizations.
    IIRC we banned organisation from using Student Union facilities. Non students were individually banned.

    Banning students was more complicated and quite rare.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,668
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Truman said:

    Leon said:

    Truman said:

    Leon said:

    So my take on climate change is this: everywhere in the world is going to get hotter and hotter… apart from the UK which will, uniquely, contrive to get greyer and rainier and even more dismal

    Oh well. At least it should discourage the boat people

    I agree. Our winters are getting warmer but wetter and more miserable and our summers warmer but cloudier. Still one of the most dismal climates for its latitude in the world is Lima which despite being in the Tropics manages to be under constant grey 8 months of the year.
    Indeed. Lima manages to be climatically way more miserable than anywhere in the UK, which is quite a feat given its location. It always annoys me when I read history books or guide books that reference Lima and don’t mention this fairly notable affliction

    Why the fuck did the Spanish build their capital there? The incans very sensibly chose sunny and refreshing Cusco

    Possibly the worst “place” I have ever been - in terms of climate meeting geography - is the desert north of Lima. The Sechura. It’s a dismal grey sand desert, strewn with trash, and cursed with that same cruel and depressing climate - chilly grey cloud like Glasgow but without the chirpy locals

    Also shit food and a history of urgent child sacrifice

    One of the worst drives of my life was in the desert north of lima stuck with a mad driver driving like a maniac on a narrow road and swerving at the last minute to avoid oncoming traffic. And yes its bleak and the locals are miserable.
    I took this photo on a beach in deserty northern Peru as it seemed to summarise the whole place



    However the little colonial towns do have a certain charm, under those sparkling blue skies



    There is absolutely nothing charming about either picture. The bottom one looks like a set for some dystopian mini-series.
    Er, that was the joke
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,668
    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    However, if you FORCE a puma to rape your wife, is that technically rape? The puma doesn’t WANT to rape your wife so there is no mens rea, your wife is only “raped” by the puma because you bullied the puma into doing the rape thing

    Tricky. Perhaps @DavidL can enlighten us on the legal technicalities, he may have encountered a similar case in Dundee

    What happens if your wife is a bit of a cougar?
    Hahahah

    Actual proper chuckle here on the sweltering Colombian coast

    Only on PB
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706

    Leon said:

    However, if you FORCE a puma to rape your wife, is that technically rape? The puma doesn’t WANT to rape your wife so there is no mens rea, your wife is only “raped” by the puma because you bullied the puma into doing the rape thing

    Tricky. Perhaps @DavidL can enlighten us on the legal technicalities, he may have encountered a similar case in Dundee

    The Puma isn't considered to be criminally responsible (but would probably be summarily destroyed regardless) but you would be considered to have committed the rape using the Puma as your means of doing so.

    Anyway. I'm suddenly very glad you're divorced.
    In Scots law it would not actually be rape because rape is the insertion of the male penis without consent. It would of course be bestiality. I don't recall a case with a puma. An Alsatian, on the other hand...
This discussion has been closed.