The Return of the King at 100/1? – politicalbetting.com

Casino_Royale said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

This is why the Starmer government will be a disaster and makes me afraid.



https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/class-war-is-back-in-fashion-for-labour-gnzgk79hl

I did warn you about this last year.

https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2023/11/06/class-warfare/

Euch, working class people with political power, how awful.

The final paragraph is instructive, though, in that it seems to be gleefully anticipating a bit of class war.

That's not healthy. If it does this then it might entrench division. I can't see anything that would promote a more rapid recovery of the Tories in their base than this. And that's almost regardless of who they select as LoTO:


"The first working-class government in decades will speak that language. It will also be chippy. It will squeeze private schools and spray concrete newbuild homes all over the shires. It will go after companies who make the same mistakes as P&O. It may struggle to hide the pleasure it takes in doing so."

Benpointer said:

ydoethur said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Nigelb said:

I'm just surprised that TSE hasn't noticed Shrove Tuesday has creped up on us.

My other half regularly tells me I am a useless tosser so I try and ignore Shrove Tuesday.

I don't think she was panning you.

One of your crêpier puns.

Peter_the_Punter said:

JosiasJessop said:

Peter_the_Punter said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

bigjohnowls said:

MoonRabbit said:

RochdalePioneers said:

JosiasJessop said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Good morning from Aberdeen airport. Could I please offer my congratulations to @NickPalmer ? His attempted smear of the Liberal Democrat’s over Cyril Smith in response to his own candidate being thrown out in disgrace was quality entertainment.

It’s pretty clear in this by election. We have a choice of disgraced former Labour candidates - Ali, Galloway, Danczuk. We have a disgraced party - the Tories. Or we have the LibDems.

We know that people want to Get The Tories Out. Happily in Rochdale they don’t have a chance. Plenty of people also seem to want to vote for foaming dog fever. If you want to stop both, vote LibDem.

On this topic; ages ago I argued that Labour were going to get such a stonking majority, that they would be inundated with new, untested MPs. And therefore there might be more examples of (ahem) 'poor' MPs, such as the ex-member for Sheffield Hallam (and I don't mean Clegg...).

It seems this is coming true much earlier than I expected. There's something rotten in the way Labour chooses candidates. The same might be true for the other parties, as well.

I’ve been a candidate. I’ve interviewed candidates. I’ve discussed candidates with regional office staff. I cannot understand how they managed to miss this.

Worst thing is that it would appear that at least some local party members had heard the comments - and voted for Ali anyway. Which means the CLP needs suspending. This wasn’t an HQ parachute candidate, the CLP actively chose him.

What have they actually missed though. The only thing the mail on Sunday came up with are remarks the Israeli government allowed the Hamas attack so they could have the war they wanted - not the most blisteringly anti semitic of statements, unless you disagree?

The latest remarks that have come to light are that he said Israel wanted to ethnically cleanse Gaza.

Obviously Labour thinks that even saying that is unacceptable!

I think we just have to accept that all criticism of Israel is a thought crime in Britain. If the Israelis want to kill another 12000 Gazan children who are we to question them?

I think we just have to be very careful what we say on the subject, and to whom, because a lot of people are very touchy about it and desperate to portray their side as victims and the other side as monsters.

Both sides have victims, and both sides have monsters. That's why it's so difficult to speak about without upsetting people.

In comparison, the Ukraine war is exceedingly simple morally: Russia is in the wrong, and Ukraine is in the right.

It's more than that with Ukraine, JJ.

We have a dog in the fight. If Ukraine goes, where next? We stop Putin now, we save ourselves a lot of problems later. That is all very simple.

Casino_Royale said:

OK, I'm going to say it: I find the whole Israel/Gaza/Palestine thing deeply deeply boring and I'm not sure I care.

Next.

JosiasJessop said:

Peter_the_Punter said:

JosiasJessop said:

Peter_the_Punter said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

bigjohnowls said:

MoonRabbit said:

RochdalePioneers said:

JosiasJessop said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Good morning from Aberdeen airport. Could I please offer my congratulations to @NickPalmer ? His attempted smear of the Liberal Democrat’s over Cyril Smith in response to his own candidate being thrown out in disgrace was quality entertainment.

It’s pretty clear in this by election. We have a choice of disgraced former Labour candidates - Ali, Galloway, Danczuk. We have a disgraced party - the Tories. Or we have the LibDems.

We know that people want to Get The Tories Out. Happily in Rochdale they don’t have a chance. Plenty of people also seem to want to vote for foaming dog fever. If you want to stop both, vote LibDem.

On this topic; ages ago I argued that Labour were going to get such a stonking majority, that they would be inundated with new, untested MPs. And therefore there might be more examples of (ahem) 'poor' MPs, such as the ex-member for Sheffield Hallam (and I don't mean Clegg...).

It seems this is coming true much earlier than I expected. There's something rotten in the way Labour chooses candidates. The same might be true for the other parties, as well.

I’ve been a candidate. I’ve interviewed candidates. I’ve discussed candidates with regional office staff. I cannot understand how they managed to miss this.

Worst thing is that it would appear that at least some local party members had heard the comments - and voted for Ali anyway. Which means the CLP needs suspending. This wasn’t an HQ parachute candidate, the CLP actively chose him.

What have they actually missed though. The only thing the mail on Sunday came up with are remarks the Israeli government allowed the Hamas attack so they could have the war they wanted - not the most blisteringly anti semitic of statements, unless you disagree?

The latest remarks that have come to light are that he said Israel wanted to ethnically cleanse Gaza.

Obviously Labour thinks that even saying that is unacceptable!

I think we just have to accept that all criticism of Israel is a thought crime in Britain. If the Israelis want to kill another 12000 Gazan children who are we to question them?

I think we just have to be very careful what we say on the subject, and to whom, because a lot of people are very touchy about it and desperate to portray their side as victims and the other side as monsters.

Both sides have victims, and both sides have monsters. That's why it's so difficult to speak about without upsetting people.

In comparison, the Ukraine war is exceedingly simple morally: Russia is in the wrong, and Ukraine is in the right.

It's more than that with Ukraine, JJ.

We have a dog in the fight. If Ukraine goes, where next? We stop Putin now, we save ourselves a lot of problems later. That is all very simple.

Totally agree.

ydoethur said:

another_richard said:

So does anyone have any thoughts about the special election to replace George Santos in New York ?

It's a swing seat. It will be interesting to see who wins. The Republican candidate is an Israeli who is registered as a Democrat. The Democrat candidate is the former Rep.

If the Democrats retake the seat it would suggest that they are not doing as badly among their core vote as one or two here have suggested.

JosiasJessop said:

Remember that we have someone on here who supports the Houthis:

"A Houthi-run court in Yemen has sentenced 13 people to executed, on charges relating to homosexuality, a judicial court confirmed this week."

https://www.thepinknews.com/2024/02/08/houthi-rebels-death-penalty-homosexuality-charges/

"Yemen: Huthi authorities sentence seven to stoning and two to crucifixion for homosexual 'crimes'
Separately, 13 students sentenced to death for ‘spreading homosexuality’"

https://www.amnesty.org.uk/press-releases/yemen-huthi-authorities-sentence-seven-stoning-and-two-crucifixion-homosexual-crimes

Leon said:

Something different to talk about

Modern pop music is rubbish: and it is scientifically proven

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/its-official-modern-music-is-bad/

No_Offence_Alan said:

Scott_xP said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

This is why the Starmer government will be a disaster and makes me afraid.

Why are you afraid?

"Up the workers" will be a welcome change from the "right up the workers" mentality of the posh Brexiteer twats in government the last few years.

Except the working class will still be subsidising the wealthy pensioner class.

MikeL said:

It may seem a laughable idea but the reality is that it is almost certain that the Conservatives would do better at the next GE with Cameron as leader than they would with anybody else.

How you arrange the mechanics I don't know. It would have to be along the lines of Sunak remaining PM until the GE, Cameron giving up his Peerage, Cameron fighting a safe seat at the GE on the basis he would then become leader post GE.

I guess technically he could become leader as soon as Parliament is dissolved because at that point there are no Conervative MPs and someone has to be leader if Rishi resigned as leader.

But I think it would be best for Rishi to remain PM until GE day to avoid charges of an unelected PM. But the Conservative Party would campaign on the basis that Cameron would take over the day after the GE.

148grss said:

JosiasJessop said:

Remember that we have someone on here who supports the Houthis:

"A Houthi-run court in Yemen has sentenced 13 people to executed, on charges relating to homosexuality, a judicial court confirmed this week."

https://www.thepinknews.com/2024/02/08/houthi-rebels-death-penalty-homosexuality-charges/

"Yemen: Huthi authorities sentence seven to stoning and two to crucifixion for homosexual 'crimes'
Separately, 13 students sentenced to death for ‘spreading homosexuality’"

https://www.amnesty.org.uk/press-releases/yemen-huthi-authorities-sentence-seven-stoning-and-two-crucifixion-homosexual-crimes

Who supports one action that the Houthis took. Once again, there is a difference between saying "this one thing they did was good, actually" and "everything they do is good".

ydoethur said:

Benpointer said:

ydoethur said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Nigelb said:

I'm just surprised that TSE hasn't noticed Shrove Tuesday has creped up on us.

My other half regularly tells me I am a useless tosser so I try and ignore Shrove Tuesday.

I don't think she was panning you.

One of your crêpier puns.

It's hardly a lemon. Do you want jam on it or something?

Malmesbury said:

JosiasJessop said:

Peter_the_Punter said:

JosiasJessop said:

Peter_the_Punter said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

bigjohnowls said:

MoonRabbit said:

RochdalePioneers said:

JosiasJessop said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Good morning from Aberdeen airport. Could I please offer my congratulations to @NickPalmer ? His attempted smear of the Liberal Democrat’s over Cyril Smith in response to his own candidate being thrown out in disgrace was quality entertainment.

It’s pretty clear in this by election. We have a choice of disgraced former Labour candidates - Ali, Galloway, Danczuk. We have a disgraced party - the Tories. Or we have the LibDems.

We know that people want to Get The Tories Out. Happily in Rochdale they don’t have a chance. Plenty of people also seem to want to vote for foaming dog fever. If you want to stop both, vote LibDem.

On this topic; ages ago I argued that Labour were going to get such a stonking majority, that they would be inundated with new, untested MPs. And therefore there might be more examples of (ahem) 'poor' MPs, such as the ex-member for Sheffield Hallam (and I don't mean Clegg...).

It seems this is coming true much earlier than I expected. There's something rotten in the way Labour chooses candidates. The same might be true for the other parties, as well.

I’ve been a candidate. I’ve interviewed candidates. I’ve discussed candidates with regional office staff. I cannot understand how they managed to miss this.

Worst thing is that it would appear that at least some local party members had heard the comments - and voted for Ali anyway. Which means the CLP needs suspending. This wasn’t an HQ parachute candidate, the CLP actively chose him.

What have they actually missed though. The only thing the mail on Sunday came up with are remarks the Israeli government allowed the Hamas attack so they could have the war they wanted - not the most blisteringly anti semitic of statements, unless you disagree?

The latest remarks that have come to light are that he said Israel wanted to ethnically cleanse Gaza.

Obviously Labour thinks that even saying that is unacceptable!

I think we just have to accept that all criticism of Israel is a thought crime in Britain. If the Israelis want to kill another 12000 Gazan children who are we to question them?

I think we just have to be very careful what we say on the subject, and to whom, because a lot of people are very touchy about it and desperate to portray their side as victims and the other side as monsters.

Both sides have victims, and both sides have monsters. That's why it's so difficult to speak about without upsetting people.

In comparison, the Ukraine war is exceedingly simple morally: Russia is in the wrong, and Ukraine is in the right.

It's more than that with Ukraine, JJ.

We have a dog in the fight. If Ukraine goes, where next? We stop Putin now, we save ourselves a lot of problems later. That is all very simple.

Totally agree.

It's pretty crude and simple - either you stop him in Ukraine, or he'll be looking at the next bit - which is the Baltics. Russian Irredentism regards everything that used to be in the Russian Empire as part of Russia.

Malmesbury said:

Mexicanpete said:

Peter_the_Punter said:

JosiasJessop said:

Peter_the_Punter said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

bigjohnowls said:

MoonRabbit said:

RochdalePioneers said:

JosiasJessop said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Good morning from Aberdeen airport. Could I please offer my congratulations to @NickPalmer ? His attempted smear of the Liberal Democrat’s over Cyril Smith in response to his own candidate being thrown out in disgrace was quality entertainment.

It’s pretty clear in this by election. We have a choice of disgraced former Labour candidates - Ali, Galloway, Danczuk. We have a disgraced party - the Tories. Or we have the LibDems.

We know that people want to Get The Tories Out. Happily in Rochdale they don’t have a chance. Plenty of people also seem to want to vote for foaming dog fever. If you want to stop both, vote LibDem.

On this topic; ages ago I argued that Labour were going to get such a stonking majority, that they would be inundated with new, untested MPs. And therefore there might be more examples of (ahem) 'poor' MPs, such as the ex-member for Sheffield Hallam (and I don't mean Clegg...).

It seems this is coming true much earlier than I expected. There's something rotten in the way Labour chooses candidates. The same might be true for the other parties, as well.

I’ve been a candidate. I’ve interviewed candidates. I’ve discussed candidates with regional office staff. I cannot understand how they managed to miss this.

Worst thing is that it would appear that at least some local party members had heard the comments - and voted for Ali anyway. Which means the CLP needs suspending. This wasn’t an HQ parachute candidate, the CLP actively chose him.

What have they actually missed though. The only thing the mail on Sunday came up with are remarks the Israeli government allowed the Hamas attack so they could have the war they wanted - not the most blisteringly anti semitic of statements, unless you disagree?

The latest remarks that have come to light are that he said Israel wanted to ethnically cleanse Gaza.

Obviously Labour thinks that even saying that is unacceptable!

I think we just have to accept that all criticism of Israel is a thought crime in Britain. If the Israelis want to kill another 12000 Gazan children who are we to question them?

I think we just have to be very careful what we say on the subject, and to whom, because a lot of people are very touchy about it and desperate to portray their side as victims and the other side as monsters.

Both sides have victims, and both sides have monsters. That's why it's so difficult to speak about without upsetting people.

In comparison, the Ukraine war is exceedingly simple morally: Russia is in the wrong, and Ukraine is in the right.

It's more than that with Ukraine, JJ.

We have a dog in the fight. If Ukraine goes, where next? We stop Putin now, we save ourselves a lot of problems later. That is all very simple.

Indeed. I doubt Putin will stop at Calais because of all the hassle to complete post-Brexit paperwork.

IIRC T-55s have issues at certain speeds. Something to do with the way the gearbox is set up. So, if he tries to invade the UK with his old rust pile, the 20mph zones may prove a problem.

OldKingCole said:

Just watching BBC News and a report on ambulance services in Gaza. I’m not sure how much more anti-Israeli, or at least Gazan-sympathetic anything could be.

Mexicanpete said:

Malmesbury said:

Mexicanpete said:

Peter_the_Punter said:

JosiasJessop said:

Peter_the_Punter said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

bigjohnowls said:

MoonRabbit said:

RochdalePioneers said:

JosiasJessop said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Good morning from Aberdeen airport. Could I please offer my congratulations to @NickPalmer ? His attempted smear of the Liberal Democrat’s over Cyril Smith in response to his own candidate being thrown out in disgrace was quality entertainment.

It’s pretty clear in this by election. We have a choice of disgraced former Labour candidates - Ali, Galloway, Danczuk. We have a disgraced party - the Tories. Or we have the LibDems.

We know that people want to Get The Tories Out. Happily in Rochdale they don’t have a chance. Plenty of people also seem to want to vote for foaming dog fever. If you want to stop both, vote LibDem.

On this topic; ages ago I argued that Labour were going to get such a stonking majority, that they would be inundated with new, untested MPs. And therefore there might be more examples of (ahem) 'poor' MPs, such as the ex-member for Sheffield Hallam (and I don't mean Clegg...).

It seems this is coming true much earlier than I expected. There's something rotten in the way Labour chooses candidates. The same might be true for the other parties, as well.

I’ve been a candidate. I’ve interviewed candidates. I’ve discussed candidates with regional office staff. I cannot understand how they managed to miss this.

Worst thing is that it would appear that at least some local party members had heard the comments - and voted for Ali anyway. Which means the CLP needs suspending. This wasn’t an HQ parachute candidate, the CLP actively chose him.

What have they actually missed though. The only thing the mail on Sunday came up with are remarks the Israeli government allowed the Hamas attack so they could have the war they wanted - not the most blisteringly anti semitic of statements, unless you disagree?

The latest remarks that have come to light are that he said Israel wanted to ethnically cleanse Gaza.

Obviously Labour thinks that even saying that is unacceptable!

I think we just have to accept that all criticism of Israel is a thought crime in Britain. If the Israelis want to kill another 12000 Gazan children who are we to question them?

I think we just have to be very careful what we say on the subject, and to whom, because a lot of people are very touchy about it and desperate to portray their side as victims and the other side as monsters.

Both sides have victims, and both sides have monsters. That's why it's so difficult to speak about without upsetting people.

In comparison, the Ukraine war is exceedingly simple morally: Russia is in the wrong, and Ukraine is in the right.

It's more than that with Ukraine, JJ.

We have a dog in the fight. If Ukraine goes, where next? We stop Putin now, we save ourselves a lot of problems later. That is all very simple.

Indeed. I doubt Putin will stop at Calais because of all the hassle to complete post-Brexit paperwork.

IIRC T-55s have issues at certain speeds. Something to do with the way the gearbox is set up. So, if he tries to invade the UK with his old rust pile, the 20mph zones may prove a problem.

As the Russian tanks grind to a halt at Monmouth because of the 20 mph limits at the Monnow Bridge that's a relief for me here in Wales, but you are still all f***** in England.

148grss said:

Casino_Royale said:

OK, I'm going to say it: I find the whole Israel/Gaza/Palestine thing deeply deeply boring and I'm not sure I care.

Next.

Almost 13,000 dead kids - *yawns*
One old man with sausage fingers gets bum cancer - hold my beer!

Most moral monarchist in the world!

Mexicanpete said:

Malmesbury said:

Mexicanpete said:

Peter_the_Punter said:

JosiasJessop said:

Peter_the_Punter said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

bigjohnowls said:

MoonRabbit said:

RochdalePioneers said:

JosiasJessop said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Good morning from Aberdeen airport. Could I please offer my congratulations to @NickPalmer ? His attempted smear of the Liberal Democrat’s over Cyril Smith in response to his own candidate being thrown out in disgrace was quality entertainment.

It’s pretty clear in this by election. We have a choice of disgraced former Labour candidates - Ali, Galloway, Danczuk. We have a disgraced party - the Tories. Or we have the LibDems.

We know that people want to Get The Tories Out. Happily in Rochdale they don’t have a chance. Plenty of people also seem to want to vote for foaming dog fever. If you want to stop both, vote LibDem.

On this topic; ages ago I argued that Labour were going to get such a stonking majority, that they would be inundated with new, untested MPs. And therefore there might be more examples of (ahem) 'poor' MPs, such as the ex-member for Sheffield Hallam (and I don't mean Clegg...).

It seems this is coming true much earlier than I expected. There's something rotten in the way Labour chooses candidates. The same might be true for the other parties, as well.

I’ve been a candidate. I’ve interviewed candidates. I’ve discussed candidates with regional office staff. I cannot understand how they managed to miss this.

Worst thing is that it would appear that at least some local party members had heard the comments - and voted for Ali anyway. Which means the CLP needs suspending. This wasn’t an HQ parachute candidate, the CLP actively chose him.

What have they actually missed though. The only thing the mail on Sunday came up with are remarks the Israeli government allowed the Hamas attack so they could have the war they wanted - not the most blisteringly anti semitic of statements, unless you disagree?

The latest remarks that have come to light are that he said Israel wanted to ethnically cleanse Gaza.

Obviously Labour thinks that even saying that is unacceptable!

I think we just have to accept that all criticism of Israel is a thought crime in Britain. If the Israelis want to kill another 12000 Gazan children who are we to question them?

I think we just have to be very careful what we say on the subject, and to whom, because a lot of people are very touchy about it and desperate to portray their side as victims and the other side as monsters.

Both sides have victims, and both sides have monsters. That's why it's so difficult to speak about without upsetting people.

In comparison, the Ukraine war is exceedingly simple morally: Russia is in the wrong, and Ukraine is in the right.

It's more than that with Ukraine, JJ.

We have a dog in the fight. If Ukraine goes, where next? We stop Putin now, we save ourselves a lot of problems later. That is all very simple.

Indeed. I doubt Putin will stop at Calais because of all the hassle to complete post-Brexit paperwork.

IIRC T-55s have issues at certain speeds. Something to do with the way the gearbox is set up. So, if he tries to invade the UK with his old rust pile, the 20mph zones may prove a problem.

As the Russian tanks grind to a halt at Monmouth because of the 20 mph limits at the Monnow Bridge that's a relief for me here in Wales, but you are still all f***** in England.

stjohn said:

Malmesbury said:

JosiasJessop said:

Peter_the_Punter said:

JosiasJessop said:

Peter_the_Punter said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

bigjohnowls said:

MoonRabbit said:

RochdalePioneers said:

JosiasJessop said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Good morning from Aberdeen airport. Could I please offer my congratulations to @NickPalmer ? His attempted smear of the Liberal Democrat’s over Cyril Smith in response to his own candidate being thrown out in disgrace was quality entertainment.

It’s pretty clear in this by election. We have a choice of disgraced former Labour candidates - Ali, Galloway, Danczuk. We have a disgraced party - the Tories. Or we have the LibDems.

We know that people want to Get The Tories Out. Happily in Rochdale they don’t have a chance. Plenty of people also seem to want to vote for foaming dog fever. If you want to stop both, vote LibDem.

On this topic; ages ago I argued that Labour were going to get such a stonking majority, that they would be inundated with new, untested MPs. And therefore there might be more examples of (ahem) 'poor' MPs, such as the ex-member for Sheffield Hallam (and I don't mean Clegg...).

It seems this is coming true much earlier than I expected. There's something rotten in the way Labour chooses candidates. The same might be true for the other parties, as well.

I’ve been a candidate. I’ve interviewed candidates. I’ve discussed candidates with regional office staff. I cannot understand how they managed to miss this.

Worst thing is that it would appear that at least some local party members had heard the comments - and voted for Ali anyway. Which means the CLP needs suspending. This wasn’t an HQ parachute candidate, the CLP actively chose him.

What have they actually missed though. The only thing the mail on Sunday came up with are remarks the Israeli government allowed the Hamas attack so they could have the war they wanted - not the most blisteringly anti semitic of statements, unless you disagree?

The latest remarks that have come to light are that he said Israel wanted to ethnically cleanse Gaza.

Obviously Labour thinks that even saying that is unacceptable!

I think we just have to accept that all criticism of Israel is a thought crime in Britain. If the Israelis want to kill another 12000 Gazan children who are we to question them?

I think we just have to be very careful what we say on the subject, and to whom, because a lot of people are very touchy about it and desperate to portray their side as victims and the other side as monsters.

Both sides have victims, and both sides have monsters. That's why it's so difficult to speak about without upsetting people.

In comparison, the Ukraine war is exceedingly simple morally: Russia is in the wrong, and Ukraine is in the right.

It's more than that with Ukraine, JJ.

We have a dog in the fight. If Ukraine goes, where next? We stop Putin now, we save ourselves a lot of problems later. That is all very simple.

Totally agree.

It's pretty crude and simple - either you stop him in Ukraine, or he'll be looking at the next bit - which is the Baltics. Russian Irredentism regards everything that used to be in the Russian Empire as part of Russia.

Yes. But try getting an appointment with an NHS irridentist.

(Not my joke. Made by a PBer a couple of days ago. Redolent of the "as rich as creases" glory days of PB.)

Malmesbury said:

Mexicanpete said:

Malmesbury said:

Mexicanpete said:

Peter_the_Punter said:

JosiasJessop said:

Peter_the_Punter said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

bigjohnowls said:

MoonRabbit said:

RochdalePioneers said:

JosiasJessop said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Good morning from Aberdeen airport. Could I please offer my congratulations to @NickPalmer ? His attempted smear of the Liberal Democrat’s over Cyril Smith in response to his own candidate being thrown out in disgrace was quality entertainment.

It’s pretty clear in this by election. We have a choice of disgraced former Labour candidates - Ali, Galloway, Danczuk. We have a disgraced party - the Tories. Or we have the LibDems.

We know that people want to Get The Tories Out. Happily in Rochdale they don’t have a chance. Plenty of people also seem to want to vote for foaming dog fever. If you want to stop both, vote LibDem.

On this topic; ages ago I argued that Labour were going to get such a stonking majority, that they would be inundated with new, untested MPs. And therefore there might be more examples of (ahem) 'poor' MPs, such as the ex-member for Sheffield Hallam (and I don't mean Clegg...).

It seems this is coming true much earlier than I expected. There's something rotten in the way Labour chooses candidates. The same might be true for the other parties, as well.

I’ve been a candidate. I’ve interviewed candidates. I’ve discussed candidates with regional office staff. I cannot understand how they managed to miss this.

Worst thing is that it would appear that at least some local party members had heard the comments - and voted for Ali anyway. Which means the CLP needs suspending. This wasn’t an HQ parachute candidate, the CLP actively chose him.

What have they actually missed though. The only thing the mail on Sunday came up with are remarks the Israeli government allowed the Hamas attack so they could have the war they wanted - not the most blisteringly anti semitic of statements, unless you disagree?

The latest remarks that have come to light are that he said Israel wanted to ethnically cleanse Gaza.

Obviously Labour thinks that even saying that is unacceptable!

I think we just have to accept that all criticism of Israel is a thought crime in Britain. If the Israelis want to kill another 12000 Gazan children who are we to question them?

I think we just have to be very careful what we say on the subject, and to whom, because a lot of people are very touchy about it and desperate to portray their side as victims and the other side as monsters.

Both sides have victims, and both sides have monsters. That's why it's so difficult to speak about without upsetting people.

In comparison, the Ukraine war is exceedingly simple morally: Russia is in the wrong, and Ukraine is in the right.

It's more than that with Ukraine, JJ.

We have a dog in the fight. If Ukraine goes, where next? We stop Putin now, we save ourselves a lot of problems later. That is all very simple.

Indeed. I doubt Putin will stop at Calais because of all the hassle to complete post-Brexit paperwork.

IIRC T-55s have issues at certain speeds. Something to do with the way the gearbox is set up. So, if he tries to invade the UK with his old rust pile, the 20mph zones may prove a problem.

As the Russian tanks grind to a halt at Monmouth because of the 20 mph limits at the Monnow Bridge that's a relief for me here in Wales, but you are still all f***** in England.

They got rid of the Cones Hotline. So the Russian armour will be stuck in a contra-flow at some abandoned traffic works. For years.

ydoethur said:

TimS said:

ydoethur said:

Benpointer said:

ydoethur said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Nigelb said:

I'm just surprised that TSE hasn't noticed Shrove Tuesday has creped up on us.

My other half regularly tells me I am a useless tosser so I try and ignore Shrove Tuesday.

I don't think she was panning you.

One of your crêpier puns.

It's hardly a lemon. Do you want jam on it or something?

Wait till the PB Scotch pancake experts get started.

That maple the conversation in another way.

148grss said:

Leon said:

148grss said:

Casino_Royale said:

OK, I'm going to say it: I find the whole Israel/Gaza/Palestine thing deeply deeply boring and I'm not sure I care.

Next.

Almost 13,000 dead kids - *yawns*
One old man with sausage fingers gets bum cancer - hold my beer!

Most moral monarchist in the world!

You want to talk numbers?


"More than 7 million displaced by Sudan fighting as safe zones shrink

More than seven million people have been displaced by fighting in Sudan, the United Nations said on Thursday as more displaced people continued to flee a former safe haven."

https://www.france24.com/en/france/20231222-more-than-7-million-displaced-by-sudan-fighting-as-safe-zones-shrink

SEVEN MILLION

And yet not a peep from the likes of you about Sudan. Nothing. Nothing at all. What is it about the Israel-Gaza conflict that so exercises you, whereas stuff in Africa, on an epically greater scale, makes you yawn?

i mean, what could it be? Why isn't Azhar Ali going on about Sudan in Rochdale? Why aren't there marches in London? What a mystery

Does my government actively support and sell weapons to the aggressors in Sudan? Is my government, in my name, running cover for the atrocities happening in Sudan? Is my government actively defending a genocide in Sudan? No. So why would we need to march - there is no policy change we need to demand. I have talked about it, although not here, with other peace activists, friends and family (as I talk about many things outside of this forum) - but it is something where the power of the state is already doing what it will in roughly the right direction (even if like me you are inherently distrustful of our state's motives for doing so).

Why was South Africa such a target for outrage by many people - it certainly wasn't the most oppressive government at the time. It was because the obvious injustice and horrors that were being committed were being committed with the support of people we are supposed to be able to have influence over because they represent us. The same goes for Israel.

Casino_Royale said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

This is why the Starmer government will be a disaster and makes me afraid.



https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/class-war-is-back-in-fashion-for-labour-gnzgk79hl

I did warn you about this last year.

https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2023/11/06/class-warfare/

Euch, working class people with political power, how awful.

The final paragraph is instructive, though, in that it seems to be gleefully anticipating a bit of class war.

That's not healthy. If it does this then it might entrench division. I can't see anything that would promote a more rapid recovery of the Tories in their base than this. And that's almost regardless of who they select as LoTO:


"The first working-class government in decades will speak that language. It will also be chippy. It will squeeze private schools and spray concrete newbuild homes all over the shires. It will go after companies who make the same mistakes as P&O. It may struggle to hide the pleasure it takes in doing so."

Luckyguy1983 said:

TOPPING said:

Mexicanpete said:

Malmesbury said:

Mexicanpete said:

Peter_the_Punter said:

JosiasJessop said:

Peter_the_Punter said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

bigjohnowls said:

MoonRabbit said:

RochdalePioneers said:

JosiasJessop said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Good morning from Aberdeen airport. Could I please offer my congratulations to @NickPalmer ? His attempted smear of the Liberal Democrat’s over Cyril Smith in response to his own candidate being thrown out in disgrace was quality entertainment.

It’s pretty clear in this by election. We have a choice of disgraced former Labour candidates - Ali, Galloway, Danczuk. We have a disgraced party - the Tories. Or we have the LibDems.

We know that people want to Get The Tories Out. Happily in Rochdale they don’t have a chance. Plenty of people also seem to want to vote for foaming dog fever. If you want to stop both, vote LibDem.

On this topic; ages ago I argued that Labour were going to get such a stonking majority, that they would be inundated with new, untested MPs. And therefore there might be more examples of (ahem) 'poor' MPs, such as the ex-member for Sheffield Hallam (and I don't mean Clegg...).

It seems this is coming true much earlier than I expected. There's something rotten in the way Labour chooses candidates. The same might be true for the other parties, as well.

I’ve been a candidate. I’ve interviewed candidates. I’ve discussed candidates with regional office staff. I cannot understand how they managed to miss this.

Worst thing is that it would appear that at least some local party members had heard the comments - and voted for Ali anyway. Which means the CLP needs suspending. This wasn’t an HQ parachute candidate, the CLP actively chose him.

What have they actually missed though. The only thing the mail on Sunday came up with are remarks the Israeli government allowed the Hamas attack so they could have the war they wanted - not the most blisteringly anti semitic of statements, unless you disagree?

The latest remarks that have come to light are that he said Israel wanted to ethnically cleanse Gaza.

Obviously Labour thinks that even saying that is unacceptable!

I think we just have to accept that all criticism of Israel is a thought crime in Britain. If the Israelis want to kill another 12000 Gazan children who are we to question them?

I think we just have to be very careful what we say on the subject, and to whom, because a lot of people are very touchy about it and desperate to portray their side as victims and the other side as monsters.

Both sides have victims, and both sides have monsters. That's why it's so difficult to speak about without upsetting people.

In comparison, the Ukraine war is exceedingly simple morally: Russia is in the wrong, and Ukraine is in the right.

It's more than that with Ukraine, JJ.

We have a dog in the fight. If Ukraine goes, where next? We stop Putin now, we save ourselves a lot of problems later. That is all very simple.

Indeed. I doubt Putin will stop at Calais because of all the hassle to complete post-Brexit paperwork.

IIRC T-55s have issues at certain speeds. Something to do with the way the gearbox is set up. So, if he tries to invade the UK with his old rust pile, the 20mph zones may prove a problem.

As the Russian tanks grind to a halt at Monmouth because of the 20 mph limits at the Monnow Bridge that's a relief for me here in Wales, but you are still all f***** in England.

We'll remove all the road signs. That will stop them in their tracks.

As many have pointed out, given the difficulty they seem to have had taking Kiev, it seems vanishingly unlikely that Russia will be driving tanks up the Champs Elysee any time soon. And if they were, it's debatable whether it would be our job to do some kind of British Expeditionary Force of the 21st century to stop them.

We need a strong navy, with masses of drones, firstly to protect our land, secondly to try to keep trading routes open, thirdly to help supply our allies and blockade naughty people. That's all we need to do, and it's a lot more than most do.

Mexicanpete said:

...

Luckyguy1983 said:

TOPPING said:

Mexicanpete said:

Malmesbury said:

Mexicanpete said:

Peter_the_Punter said:

JosiasJessop said:

Peter_the_Punter said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

bigjohnowls said:

MoonRabbit said:

RochdalePioneers said:

JosiasJessop said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Good morning from Aberdeen airport. Could I please offer my congratulations to @NickPalmer ? His attempted smear of the Liberal Democrat’s over Cyril Smith in response to his own candidate being thrown out in disgrace was quality entertainment.

It’s pretty clear in this by election. We have a choice of disgraced former Labour candidates - Ali, Galloway, Danczuk. We have a disgraced party - the Tories. Or we have the LibDems.

We know that people want to Get The Tories Out. Happily in Rochdale they don’t have a chance. Plenty of people also seem to want to vote for foaming dog fever. If you want to stop both, vote LibDem.

On this topic; ages ago I argued that Labour were going to get such a stonking majority, that they would be inundated with new, untested MPs. And therefore there might be more examples of (ahem) 'poor' MPs, such as the ex-member for Sheffield Hallam (and I don't mean Clegg...).

It seems this is coming true much earlier than I expected. There's something rotten in the way Labour chooses candidates. The same might be true for the other parties, as well.

I’ve been a candidate. I’ve interviewed candidates. I’ve discussed candidates with regional office staff. I cannot understand how they managed to miss this.

Worst thing is that it would appear that at least some local party members had heard the comments - and voted for Ali anyway. Which means the CLP needs suspending. This wasn’t an HQ parachute candidate, the CLP actively chose him.

What have they actually missed though. The only thing the mail on Sunday came up with are remarks the Israeli government allowed the Hamas attack so they could have the war they wanted - not the most blisteringly anti semitic of statements, unless you disagree?

The latest remarks that have come to light are that he said Israel wanted to ethnically cleanse Gaza.

Obviously Labour thinks that even saying that is unacceptable!

I think we just have to accept that all criticism of Israel is a thought crime in Britain. If the Israelis want to kill another 12000 Gazan children who are we to question them?

I think we just have to be very careful what we say on the subject, and to whom, because a lot of people are very touchy about it and desperate to portray their side as victims and the other side as monsters.

Both sides have victims, and both sides have monsters. That's why it's so difficult to speak about without upsetting people.

In comparison, the Ukraine war is exceedingly simple morally: Russia is in the wrong, and Ukraine is in the right.

It's more than that with Ukraine, JJ.

We have a dog in the fight. If Ukraine goes, where next? We stop Putin now, we save ourselves a lot of problems later. That is all very simple.

Indeed. I doubt Putin will stop at Calais because of all the hassle to complete post-Brexit paperwork.

IIRC T-55s have issues at certain speeds. Something to do with the way the gearbox is set up. So, if he tries to invade the UK with his old rust pile, the 20mph zones may prove a problem.

As the Russian tanks grind to a halt at Monmouth because of the 20 mph limits at the Monnow Bridge that's a relief for me here in Wales, but you are still all f***** in England.

We'll remove all the road signs. That will stop them in their tracks.

As many have pointed out, given the difficulty they seem to have had taking Kiev, it seems vanishingly unlikely that Russia will be driving tanks up the Champs Elysee any time soon. And if they were, it's debatable whether it would be our job to do some kind of British Expeditionary Force of the 21st century to stop them.

We need a strong navy, with masses of drones, firstly to protect our land, secondly to try to keep trading routes open, thirdly to help supply our allies and blockade naughty people. That's all we need to do, and it's a lot more than most do.

It'll be fine! We have HMS Prince of Wales on standby.

ydoethur said:

Malmesbury said:

Mexicanpete said:

Malmesbury said:

Mexicanpete said:

Peter_the_Punter said:

JosiasJessop said:

Peter_the_Punter said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

bigjohnowls said:

MoonRabbit said:

RochdalePioneers said:

JosiasJessop said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Good morning from Aberdeen airport. Could I please offer my congratulations to @NickPalmer ? His attempted smear of the Liberal Democrat’s over Cyril Smith in response to his own candidate being thrown out in disgrace was quality entertainment.

It’s pretty clear in this by election. We have a choice of disgraced former Labour candidates - Ali, Galloway, Danczuk. We have a disgraced party - the Tories. Or we have the LibDems.

We know that people want to Get The Tories Out. Happily in Rochdale they don’t have a chance. Plenty of people also seem to want to vote for foaming dog fever. If you want to stop both, vote LibDem.

On this topic; ages ago I argued that Labour were going to get such a stonking majority, that they would be inundated with new, untested MPs. And therefore there might be more examples of (ahem) 'poor' MPs, such as the ex-member for Sheffield Hallam (and I don't mean Clegg...).

It seems this is coming true much earlier than I expected. There's something rotten in the way Labour chooses candidates. The same might be true for the other parties, as well.

I’ve been a candidate. I’ve interviewed candidates. I’ve discussed candidates with regional office staff. I cannot understand how they managed to miss this.

Worst thing is that it would appear that at least some local party members had heard the comments - and voted for Ali anyway. Which means the CLP needs suspending. This wasn’t an HQ parachute candidate, the CLP actively chose him.

What have they actually missed though. The only thing the mail on Sunday came up with are remarks the Israeli government allowed the Hamas attack so they could have the war they wanted - not the most blisteringly anti semitic of statements, unless you disagree?

The latest remarks that have come to light are that he said Israel wanted to ethnically cleanse Gaza.

Obviously Labour thinks that even saying that is unacceptable!

I think we just have to accept that all criticism of Israel is a thought crime in Britain. If the Israelis want to kill another 12000 Gazan children who are we to question them?

I think we just have to be very careful what we say on the subject, and to whom, because a lot of people are very touchy about it and desperate to portray their side as victims and the other side as monsters.

Both sides have victims, and both sides have monsters. That's why it's so difficult to speak about without upsetting people.

In comparison, the Ukraine war is exceedingly simple morally: Russia is in the wrong, and Ukraine is in the right.

It's more than that with Ukraine, JJ.

We have a dog in the fight. If Ukraine goes, where next? We stop Putin now, we save ourselves a lot of problems later. That is all very simple.

Indeed. I doubt Putin will stop at Calais because of all the hassle to complete post-Brexit paperwork.

IIRC T-55s have issues at certain speeds. Something to do with the way the gearbox is set up. So, if he tries to invade the UK with his old rust pile, the 20mph zones may prove a problem.

As the Russian tanks grind to a halt at Monmouth because of the 20 mph limits at the Monnow Bridge that's a relief for me here in Wales, but you are still all f***** in England.

They got rid of the Cones Hotline. So the Russian armour will be stuck in a contra-flow at some abandoned traffic works. For years.

Junction 10 of the M6.

Meant to be finished two years ago.

Final deadline was last August.

Still a coned-off shambles.

And I've not seen anyone actually working there for a good six months.

Mexicanpete said:

...

Luckyguy1983 said:

TOPPING said:

Mexicanpete said:

Malmesbury said:

Mexicanpete said:

Peter_the_Punter said:

JosiasJessop said:

Peter_the_Punter said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

bigjohnowls said:

MoonRabbit said:

RochdalePioneers said:

JosiasJessop said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Good morning from Aberdeen airport. Could I please offer my congratulations to @NickPalmer ? His attempted smear of the Liberal Democrat’s over Cyril Smith in response to his own candidate being thrown out in disgrace was quality entertainment.

It’s pretty clear in this by election. We have a choice of disgraced former Labour candidates - Ali, Galloway, Danczuk. We have a disgraced party - the Tories. Or we have the LibDems.

We know that people want to Get The Tories Out. Happily in Rochdale they don’t have a chance. Plenty of people also seem to want to vote for foaming dog fever. If you want to stop both, vote LibDem.

On this topic; ages ago I argued that Labour were going to get such a stonking majority, that they would be inundated with new, untested MPs. And therefore there might be more examples of (ahem) 'poor' MPs, such as the ex-member for Sheffield Hallam (and I don't mean Clegg...).

It seems this is coming true much earlier than I expected. There's something rotten in the way Labour chooses candidates. The same might be true for the other parties, as well.

I’ve been a candidate. I’ve interviewed candidates. I’ve discussed candidates with regional office staff. I cannot understand how they managed to miss this.

Worst thing is that it would appear that at least some local party members had heard the comments - and voted for Ali anyway. Which means the CLP needs suspending. This wasn’t an HQ parachute candidate, the CLP actively chose him.

What have they actually missed though. The only thing the mail on Sunday came up with are remarks the Israeli government allowed the Hamas attack so they could have the war they wanted - not the most blisteringly anti semitic of statements, unless you disagree?

The latest remarks that have come to light are that he said Israel wanted to ethnically cleanse Gaza.

Obviously Labour thinks that even saying that is unacceptable!

I think we just have to accept that all criticism of Israel is a thought crime in Britain. If the Israelis want to kill another 12000 Gazan children who are we to question them?

I think we just have to be very careful what we say on the subject, and to whom, because a lot of people are very touchy about it and desperate to portray their side as victims and the other side as monsters.

Both sides have victims, and both sides have monsters. That's why it's so difficult to speak about without upsetting people.

In comparison, the Ukraine war is exceedingly simple morally: Russia is in the wrong, and Ukraine is in the right.

It's more than that with Ukraine, JJ.

We have a dog in the fight. If Ukraine goes, where next? We stop Putin now, we save ourselves a lot of problems later. That is all very simple.

Indeed. I doubt Putin will stop at Calais because of all the hassle to complete post-Brexit paperwork.

IIRC T-55s have issues at certain speeds. Something to do with the way the gearbox is set up. So, if he tries to invade the UK with his old rust pile, the 20mph zones may prove a problem.

As the Russian tanks grind to a halt at Monmouth because of the 20 mph limits at the Monnow Bridge that's a relief for me here in Wales, but you are still all f***** in England.

We'll remove all the road signs. That will stop them in their tracks.

As many have pointed out, given the difficulty they seem to have had taking Kiev, it seems vanishingly unlikely that Russia will be driving tanks up the Champs Elysee any time soon. And if they were, it's debatable whether it would be our job to do some kind of British Expeditionary Force of the 21st century to stop them.

We need a strong navy, with masses of drones, firstly to protect our land, secondly to try to keep trading routes open, thirdly to help supply our allies and blockade naughty people. That's all we need to do, and it's a lot more than most do.

It'll be fine! We have HMS Prince of Wales on standby.

Leon said:

148grss said:

Leon said:

148grss said:

Casino_Royale said:

OK, I'm going to say it: I find the whole Israel/Gaza/Palestine thing deeply deeply boring and I'm not sure I care.

Next.

Almost 13,000 dead kids - *yawns*
One old man with sausage fingers gets bum cancer - hold my beer!

Most moral monarchist in the world!

You want to talk numbers?


"More than 7 million displaced by Sudan fighting as safe zones shrink

More than seven million people have been displaced by fighting in Sudan, the United Nations said on Thursday as more displaced people continued to flee a former safe haven."

https://www.france24.com/en/france/20231222-more-than-7-million-displaced-by-sudan-fighting-as-safe-zones-shrink

SEVEN MILLION

And yet not a peep from the likes of you about Sudan. Nothing. Nothing at all. What is it about the Israel-Gaza conflict that so exercises you, whereas stuff in Africa, on an epically greater scale, makes you yawn?

i mean, what could it be? Why isn't Azhar Ali going on about Sudan in Rochdale? Why aren't there marches in London? What a mystery

Does my government actively support and sell weapons to the aggressors in Sudan? Is my government, in my name, running cover for the atrocities happening in Sudan? Is my government actively defending a genocide in Sudan? No. So why would we need to march - there is no policy change we need to demand. I have talked about it, although not here, with other peace activists, friends and family (as I talk about many things outside of this forum) - but it is something where the power of the state is already doing what it will in roughly the right direction (even if like me you are inherently distrustful of our state's motives for doing so).

Why was South Africa such a target for outrage by many people - it certainly wasn't the most oppressive government at the time. It was because the obvious injustice and horrors that were being committed were being committed with the support of people we are supposed to be able to have influence over because they represent us. The same goes for Israel.

Still, seven million, eh?

You are so exercised by injustice and suffering, yet you just forgot to mention this. Not even once. Not a peep. Zilchoroonie. Nada. Nillissimo. Nuffink. Weird, huh

But then, there's no Jews doing it, so I guess it's less important?

TheValiant said:

MikeL said:

It may seem a laughable idea but the reality is that it is almost certain that the Conservatives would do better at the next GE with Cameron as leader than they would with anybody else.

How you arrange the mechanics I don't know. It would have to be along the lines of Sunak remaining PM until the GE, Cameron giving up his Peerage, Cameron fighting a safe seat at the GE on the basis he would then become leader post GE.

I guess technically he could become leader as soon as Parliament is dissolved because at that point there are no Conervative MPs and someone has to be leader if Rishi resigned as leader.

But I think it would be best for Rishi to remain PM until GE day to avoid charges of an unelected PM. But the Conservative Party would campaign on the basis that Cameron would take over the day after the GE.

It's a good idea, and I prefer Cameron to Sunak, but what's in it for Sunak?
What backroom deal would he need to be offered to accept that?

148grss said:

Casino_Royale said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

This is why the Starmer government will be a disaster and makes me afraid.



https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/class-war-is-back-in-fashion-for-labour-gnzgk79hl

I did warn you about this last year.

https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2023/11/06/class-warfare/

Euch, working class people with political power, how awful.

The final paragraph is instructive, though, in that it seems to be gleefully anticipating a bit of class war.

That's not healthy. If it does this then it might entrench division. I can't see anything that would promote a more rapid recovery of the Tories in their base than this. And that's almost regardless of who they select as LoTO:


"The first working-class government in decades will speak that language. It will also be chippy. It will squeeze private schools and spray concrete newbuild homes all over the shires. It will go after companies who make the same mistakes as P&O. It may struggle to hide the pleasure it takes in doing so."

What if class war, against the rich, is good actually? Like - taking their stuff, because they have an over abundance of it, and giving said stuff to people who don't have stuff, and actively need more stuff to live and such - is good. That is a good thing to do. Especially since many of the people who have lots of stuff - have it for no good reason. Like they inherited it, or managed to hide it in a tax haven, or they got lucky and invested in something at the right time and place.

Dealing with the average persons material reality - that life is shit and getting shitter - and making life less shit might be popular.

Mexicanpete said:

...

Luckyguy1983 said:

TOPPING said:

Mexicanpete said:

Malmesbury said:

Mexicanpete said:

Peter_the_Punter said:

JosiasJessop said:

Peter_the_Punter said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

bigjohnowls said:

MoonRabbit said:

RochdalePioneers said:

JosiasJessop said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Good morning from Aberdeen airport. Could I please offer my congratulations to @NickPalmer ? His attempted smear of the Liberal Democrat’s over Cyril Smith in response to his own candidate being thrown out in disgrace was quality entertainment.

It’s pretty clear in this by election. We have a choice of disgraced former Labour candidates - Ali, Galloway, Danczuk. We have a disgraced party - the Tories. Or we have the LibDems.

We know that people want to Get The Tories Out. Happily in Rochdale they don’t have a chance. Plenty of people also seem to want to vote for foaming dog fever. If you want to stop both, vote LibDem.

On this topic; ages ago I argued that Labour were going to get such a stonking majority, that they would be inundated with new, untested MPs. And therefore there might be more examples of (ahem) 'poor' MPs, such as the ex-member for Sheffield Hallam (and I don't mean Clegg...).

It seems this is coming true much earlier than I expected. There's something rotten in the way Labour chooses candidates. The same might be true for the other parties, as well.

I’ve been a candidate. I’ve interviewed candidates. I’ve discussed candidates with regional office staff. I cannot understand how they managed to miss this.

Worst thing is that it would appear that at least some local party members had heard the comments - and voted for Ali anyway. Which means the CLP needs suspending. This wasn’t an HQ parachute candidate, the CLP actively chose him.

What have they actually missed though. The only thing the mail on Sunday came up with are remarks the Israeli government allowed the Hamas attack so they could have the war they wanted - not the most blisteringly anti semitic of statements, unless you disagree?

The latest remarks that have come to light are that he said Israel wanted to ethnically cleanse Gaza.

Obviously Labour thinks that even saying that is unacceptable!

I think we just have to accept that all criticism of Israel is a thought crime in Britain. If the Israelis want to kill another 12000 Gazan children who are we to question them?

I think we just have to be very careful what we say on the subject, and to whom, because a lot of people are very touchy about it and desperate to portray their side as victims and the other side as monsters.

Both sides have victims, and both sides have monsters. That's why it's so difficult to speak about without upsetting people.

In comparison, the Ukraine war is exceedingly simple morally: Russia is in the wrong, and Ukraine is in the right.

It's more than that with Ukraine, JJ.

We have a dog in the fight. If Ukraine goes, where next? We stop Putin now, we save ourselves a lot of problems later. That is all very simple.

Indeed. I doubt Putin will stop at Calais because of all the hassle to complete post-Brexit paperwork.

IIRC T-55s have issues at certain speeds. Something to do with the way the gearbox is set up. So, if he tries to invade the UK with his old rust pile, the 20mph zones may prove a problem.

As the Russian tanks grind to a halt at Monmouth because of the 20 mph limits at the Monnow Bridge that's a relief for me here in Wales, but you are still all f***** in England.

We'll remove all the road signs. That will stop them in their tracks.

As many have pointed out, given the difficulty they seem to have had taking Kiev, it seems vanishingly unlikely that Russia will be driving tanks up the Champs Elysee any time soon. And if they were, it's debatable whether it would be our job to do some kind of British Expeditionary Force of the 21st century to stop them.

We need a strong navy, with masses of drones, firstly to protect our land, secondly to try to keep trading routes open, thirdly to help supply our allies and blockade naughty people. That's all we need to do, and it's a lot more than most do.

It'll be fine! We have HMS Prince of Wales on standby.

TOPPING said:

148grss said:

Casino_Royale said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

This is why the Starmer government will be a disaster and makes me afraid.



https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/class-war-is-back-in-fashion-for-labour-gnzgk79hl

I did warn you about this last year.

https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2023/11/06/class-warfare/

Euch, working class people with political power, how awful.

The final paragraph is instructive, though, in that it seems to be gleefully anticipating a bit of class war.

That's not healthy. If it does this then it might entrench division. I can't see anything that would promote a more rapid recovery of the Tories in their base than this. And that's almost regardless of who they select as LoTO:


"The first working-class government in decades will speak that language. It will also be chippy. It will squeeze private schools and spray concrete newbuild homes all over the shires. It will go after companies who make the same mistakes as P&O. It may struggle to hide the pleasure it takes in doing so."

What if class war, against the rich, is good actually? Like - taking their stuff, because they have an over abundance of it, and giving said stuff to people who don't have stuff, and actively need more stuff to live and such - is good. That is a good thing to do. Especially since many of the people who have lots of stuff - have it for no good reason. Like they inherited it, or managed to hide it in a tax haven, or they got lucky and invested in something at the right time and place.

Dealing with the average persons material reality - that life is shit and getting shitter - and making life less shit might be popular.

Sounds great. Can you please define "rich". Does it include those who own their homes mortgage-free?

148grss said:

Casino_Royale said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

This is why the Starmer government will be a disaster and makes me afraid.



https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/class-war-is-back-in-fashion-for-labour-gnzgk79hl

I did warn you about this last year.

https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2023/11/06/class-warfare/

Euch, working class people with political power, how awful.

The final paragraph is instructive, though, in that it seems to be gleefully anticipating a bit of class war.

That's not healthy. If it does this then it might entrench division. I can't see anything that would promote a more rapid recovery of the Tories in their base than this. And that's almost regardless of who they select as LoTO:


"The first working-class government in decades will speak that language. It will also be chippy. It will squeeze private schools and spray concrete newbuild homes all over the shires. It will go after companies who make the same mistakes as P&O. It may struggle to hide the pleasure it takes in doing so."

What if class war, against the rich, is good actually? Like - taking their stuff, because they have an over abundance of it, and giving said stuff to people who don't have stuff, and actively need more stuff to live and such - is good. That is a good thing to do. Especially since many of the people who have lots of stuff - have it for no good reason. Like they inherited it, or managed to hide it in a tax haven, or they got lucky and invested in something at the right time and place.

Dealing with the average persons material reality - that life is shit and getting shitter - and making life less shit might be popular.

JosiasJessop said:

148grss said:

JosiasJessop said:

Remember that we have someone on here who supports the Houthis:

"A Houthi-run court in Yemen has sentenced 13 people to executed, on charges relating to homosexuality, a judicial court confirmed this week."

https://www.thepinknews.com/2024/02/08/houthi-rebels-death-penalty-homosexuality-charges/

"Yemen: Huthi authorities sentence seven to stoning and two to crucifixion for homosexual 'crimes'
Separately, 13 students sentenced to death for ‘spreading homosexuality’"

https://www.amnesty.org.uk/press-releases/yemen-huthi-authorities-sentence-seven-stoning-and-two-crucifixion-homosexual-crimes

Who supports one action that the Houthis took. Once again, there is a difference between saying "this one thing they did was good, actually" and "everything they do is good".

No. To make it quite clear: you are so one-eyed about Palestine that you support *any* action by *any* actor that might harm Israel or us. Including by other regimes that kill and maim in ways you should condemn.

The lives of the sailors on the ships don't matter. The lives of gay Yemenis don't matter; just as long as Israel is defeated.

148grss said:

Leon said:

148grss said:

Casino_Royale said:

OK, I'm going to say it: I find the whole Israel/Gaza/Palestine thing deeply deeply boring and I'm not sure I care.

Next.

Almost 13,000 dead kids - *yawns*
One old man with sausage fingers gets bum cancer - hold my beer!

Most moral monarchist in the world!

You want to talk numbers?


"More than 7 million displaced by Sudan fighting as safe zones shrink

More than seven million people have been displaced by fighting in Sudan, the United Nations said on Thursday as more displaced people continued to flee a former safe haven."

https://www.france24.com/en/france/20231222-more-than-7-million-displaced-by-sudan-fighting-as-safe-zones-shrink

SEVEN MILLION

And yet not a peep from the likes of you about Sudan. Nothing. Nothing at all. What is it about the Israel-Gaza conflict that so exercises you, whereas stuff in Africa, on an epically greater scale, makes you yawn?

i mean, what could it be? Why isn't Azhar Ali going on about Sudan in Rochdale? Why aren't there marches in London? What a mystery

Does my government actively support and sell weapons to the aggressors in Sudan? Is my government, in my name, running cover for the atrocities happening in Sudan? Is my government actively defending a genocide in Sudan? No. So why would we need to march - there is no policy change we need to demand. I have talked about it, although not here, with other peace activists, friends and family (as I talk about many things outside of this forum) - but it is something where the power of the state is already doing what it will in roughly the right direction (even if like me you are inherently distrustful of our state's motives for doing so).

Why was South Africa such a target for outrage by many people - it certainly wasn't the most oppressive government at the time. It was because the obvious injustice and horrors that were being committed were being committed with the support of people we are supposed to be able to have influence over because they represent us. The same goes for Israel.

Casino_Royale said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

This is why the Starmer government will be a disaster and makes me afraid.



https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/class-war-is-back-in-fashion-for-labour-gnzgk79hl

I did warn you about this last year.

https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2023/11/06/class-warfare/

Euch, working class people with political power, how awful.

The final paragraph is instructive, though, in that it seems to be gleefully anticipating a bit of class war.

That's not healthy. If it does this then it might entrench division. I can't see anything that would promote a more rapid recovery of the Tories in their base than this. And that's almost regardless of who they select as LoTO:


"The first working-class government in decades will speak that language. It will also be chippy. (1) It will squeeze private schools and (2) spray concrete newbuild homes all over the shires. (3) It will go after companies who make the same mistakes as P&O. (4) It may struggle to hide the pleasure it takes in doing so."

twistedfirestopper3 said:

"Lord" Cameron. 🤣

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Mexicanpete said:

...

Luckyguy1983 said:

TOPPING said:

Mexicanpete said:

Malmesbury said:

Mexicanpete said:

Peter_the_Punter said:

JosiasJessop said:

Peter_the_Punter said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

bigjohnowls said:

MoonRabbit said:

RochdalePioneers said:

JosiasJessop said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Good morning from Aberdeen airport. Could I please offer my congratulations to @NickPalmer ? His attempted smear of the Liberal Democrat’s over Cyril Smith in response to his own candidate being thrown out in disgrace was quality entertainment.

It’s pretty clear in this by election. We have a choice of disgraced former Labour candidates - Ali, Galloway, Danczuk. We have a disgraced party - the Tories. Or we have the LibDems.

We know that people want to Get The Tories Out. Happily in Rochdale they don’t have a chance. Plenty of people also seem to want to vote for foaming dog fever. If you want to stop both, vote LibDem.

On this topic; ages ago I argued that Labour were going to get such a stonking majority, that they would be inundated with new, untested MPs. And therefore there might be more examples of (ahem) 'poor' MPs, such as the ex-member for Sheffield Hallam (and I don't mean Clegg...).

It seems this is coming true much earlier than I expected. There's something rotten in the way Labour chooses candidates. The same might be true for the other parties, as well.

I’ve been a candidate. I’ve interviewed candidates. I’ve discussed candidates with regional office staff. I cannot understand how they managed to miss this.

Worst thing is that it would appear that at least some local party members had heard the comments - and voted for Ali anyway. Which means the CLP needs suspending. This wasn’t an HQ parachute candidate, the CLP actively chose him.

What have they actually missed though. The only thing the mail on Sunday came up with are remarks the Israeli government allowed the Hamas attack so they could have the war they wanted - not the most blisteringly anti semitic of statements, unless you disagree?

The latest remarks that have come to light are that he said Israel wanted to ethnically cleanse Gaza.

Obviously Labour thinks that even saying that is unacceptable!

I think we just have to accept that all criticism of Israel is a thought crime in Britain. If the Israelis want to kill another 12000 Gazan children who are we to question them?

I think we just have to be very careful what we say on the subject, and to whom, because a lot of people are very touchy about it and desperate to portray their side as victims and the other side as monsters.

Both sides have victims, and both sides have monsters. That's why it's so difficult to speak about without upsetting people.

In comparison, the Ukraine war is exceedingly simple morally: Russia is in the wrong, and Ukraine is in the right.

It's more than that with Ukraine, JJ.

We have a dog in the fight. If Ukraine goes, where next? We stop Putin now, we save ourselves a lot of problems later. That is all very simple.

Indeed. I doubt Putin will stop at Calais because of all the hassle to complete post-Brexit paperwork.

IIRC T-55s have issues at certain speeds. Something to do with the way the gearbox is set up. So, if he tries to invade the UK with his old rust pile, the 20mph zones may prove a problem.

As the Russian tanks grind to a halt at Monmouth because of the 20 mph limits at the Monnow Bridge that's a relief for me here in Wales, but you are still all f***** in England.

We'll remove all the road signs. That will stop them in their tracks.

As many have pointed out, given the difficulty they seem to have had taking Kiev, it seems vanishingly unlikely that Russia will be driving tanks up the Champs Elysee any time soon. And if they were, it's debatable whether it would be our job to do some kind of British Expeditionary Force of the 21st century to stop them.

We need a strong navy, with masses of drones, firstly to protect our land, secondly to try to keep trading routes open, thirdly to help supply our allies and blockade naughty people. That's all we need to do, and it's a lot more than most do.

It'll be fine! We have HMS Prince of Wales on standby.

Namesake sunk by the Japs in 1941

MoonRabbit said:

RochdalePioneers said:

JosiasJessop said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Good morning from Aberdeen airport. Could I please offer my congratulations to @NickPalmer ? His attempted smear of the Liberal Democrat’s over Cyril Smith in response to his own candidate being thrown out in disgrace was quality entertainment.

It’s pretty clear in this by election. We have a choice of disgraced former Labour candidates - Ali, Galloway, Danczuk. We have a disgraced party - the Tories. Or we have the LibDems.

We know that people want to Get The Tories Out. Happily in Rochdale they don’t have a chance. Plenty of people also seem to want to vote for foaming dog fever. If you want to stop both, vote LibDem.

On this topic; ages ago I argued that Labour were going to get such a stonking majority, that they would be inundated with new, untested MPs. And therefore there might be more examples of (ahem) 'poor' MPs, such as the ex-member for Sheffield Hallam (and I don't mean Clegg...).

It seems this is coming true much earlier than I expected. There's something rotten in the way Labour chooses candidates. The same might be true for the other parties, as well.

I’ve been a candidate. I’ve interviewed candidates. I’ve discussed candidates with regional office staff. I cannot understand how they managed to miss this.

Worst thing is that it would appear that at least some local party members had heard the comments - and voted for Ali anyway. Which means the CLP needs suspending. This wasn’t an HQ parachute candidate, the CLP actively chose him.

What have they actually missed though. The only thing the mail on Sunday came up with are remarks the Israeli government allowed the Hamas attack so they could have the war they wanted - not the most blisteringly anti semitic of statements, unless you disagree?

TheScreamingEagles said:

twistedfirestopper3 said:

"Lord" Cameron. 🤣

His Excellency The Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton!

Show all due deference you pleb.

Theuniondivvie said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

twistedfirestopper3 said:

"Lord" Cameron. 🤣

His Excellency The Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton!

Show all due deference you pleb.

Peerages have been dreadfully devalued since some dumbass or other conferred one on Lady Money.

TheScreamingEagles said:

twistedfirestopper3 said:

"Lord" Cameron. 🤣

His Excellency The Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton!

Show all due deference you pleb.