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Could Liz Truss improve Tory fortunes? – politicalbetting.com

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  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,488
    kle4 said:

    carnforth said:

    Government loses tainted blood commons vote.

    It is the first defeat in the House of Commons on a whipped vote since the last general election in 2019.

    I should bloody well hope so given they have a big majority.
    Apparently it's down to 56 now, from 80.
  • kle4 said:

    carnforth said:

    Government loses tainted blood commons vote.

    It is the first defeat in the House of Commons on a whipped vote since the last general election in 2019.

    I should bloody well hope so given they have a big majority.
    Nice use of the word 'bloody' there. :smiley:
  • Scott_xP said:

    ...

    I dont get it.
  • pm215pm215 Posts: 1,118

    Because they pay through the nose to come here, universities and the national balance of payments need the fee income, and if we tell them they can't bring their families, they will go elsewhere?

    Besides, aren't the Conservatives meant to be the Party Of Family Values?

    As much coming from Nigeria and India each as from the Rest of the World combined suggests there is something fishy going on though.
    Didn't somebody here point out the other day that the "something fishy" was that government policy was specifically targeting Nigeria and India as priorities as part of their international education strategy?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,829

    kle4 said:

    carnforth said:

    Government loses tainted blood commons vote.

    It is the first defeat in the House of Commons on a whipped vote since the last general election in 2019.

    I should bloody well hope so given they have a big majority.
    Nice use of the word 'bloody' there. :smiley:
    Sadly it was unintentional so I cannot claim any degree of wit.
  • Republicans against Trump
    @RpsAgainstTrump
    This Muslim fundamentalist who leads the campaign against Biden in swing states, says he’s not worried about Trump getting elected president:

    “We have to send an important message...It may take 12 years, 20 years but at least we’ll send a message so in the future, next time there’s a Democrat in the WH he won't take our votes for granted.”

    https://twitter.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1731719610737570002


    ===

    I think you'll find you've been deported mate, long, long before the next Democrat.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,255
    carnforth said:

    kle4 said:

    carnforth said:

    Government loses tainted blood commons vote.

    It is the first defeat in the House of Commons on a whipped vote since the last general election in 2019.

    I should bloody well hope so given they have a big majority.
    Apparently it's down to 56 now, from 80.
    Per Wikipedia, working majority at 57 from 87 (80 + SF absences) - see Progression of the Government majority tab.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-border-target-operating-model-august-2023/the-border-target-operating-model-august-2023#:~:text=Instead of the originally planned,rather than 31 January 2024.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,720

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    I dont get it.
    I think it’s a reference to the fact they keep announcing “major packages” of reforms on immigration every few weeks.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,509

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    Nigelb said:

    image
    "And you say the ordinary people have ice cubes too? Amazing."

    First Light Fusion's target, I think ?
    Yep which meant trying to come up with a realistic quip has taken some time - that “ice cube” is the target designed to focus the energy to reach critical temperatures and densities

    This focusses things so that come the next election you will get the votes of just the true believers.
    I thought you might have done something with their fusion technique being inspired by a shrimp...
    Well, the SHRIMP device did quite a bit of fusion in the Castle Bravo test.

    Rather more than was wanted, actually.

    Lithium 7 says hello.
    Different shrimp.

    https://firstlightfusion.com/technology/targets
    ...First Light’s journey to a new method for fusion started in nature, with the pistol shrimp. The pistol shrimp has an oversized claw, which it can “click” shut at very high speed. The motion is so fast that it launches a shock wave into the water and stresses it so much that it rips apart and forms a bubble. The shock wave and the bubble interact and the bubble collapses just as quickly as it forms. The vapour inside is heated to tens of thousands of degrees and emits a bright flash of light...

    Of course the energies are vastly higher, and methods of much greater complexity, but the principle of focusing pressure waves is similar.
  • TimS said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    I dont get it.
    I think it’s a reference to the fact they keep announcing “major packages” of reforms on immigration every few weeks.
    I thought it was some kind of reference to John Major final days.
  • This is a really interesting point.


    Tim Montgomerie 🇬🇧
    @montie
    ·
    4h
    The Tories repeatedly promised controlled immigration and didn't deliver. Meanwhile Starmer is promising pound-sized economic change with penny-sized half measures. Both parties are playing dangerous games with our democracy.



    If Starmer fails to turn things around in a couple of years could we see Farage Party at 30% in polls?
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,707
    edited December 2023
    I have a problem. I'm worried my friend might be an antisemite. I went round to his house yesterday and we chatted about all sorts of things like we usually do. He's much more left wing than me and we eventually got onto the issue of Starmer, about whom he was most displeased. Not surprisingly we then started to discuss Gaza. He's expressed before his strong feelings about the Palestinian cause. I tend to feel there are an awful lot of other causes as well. It wasn't so much that he saw Starmer as a warmonger but thought he had opportunistically got rid of some of his more left wing frontbenchers and was enjoying rubbing the Corbynites' noses in the dirt.

    I'm generally fairly calm in debate, even a little humourous, but even I found the blood pressure rising as we went back and forth. I asked who he blamed the current situation on and he said Netanyahu. Now I wouldn't want to defend the man but I said I thought the fundamental problem was Iran, an enormously larger neighbour (sort of) that was committed to Israel's destruction. He then asked if Iran was actually capable of destroying Israel. I didn't think so and so for him this made it all academic. I tried again with 110m people in Egypt not so long ago under the control of the Muslim Brotherhood but he wasn't shifting.

    We then come to the issue of solutions. For him what mattered was ending the indiscriminate killing of people in Gaza and a one state solution as an end goal. He made the point that there would be an Arab majority eventually to which I suggested that might not be great for the Jews. However since it was impossible to say what would happen in future he didn't think my concerns were valid. Whatever the evils of the Holocaust Jews had not been seriously persecuted in the west since 1945. I took that as a suggestion that even if the Jews were forced out of Israel they could always re-settle in western countries. But that seemed to display a remarkable indifference to me, an explanation for which I couldn't put my finger on.
  • Unison: 'you can earn two or three £ more an hour down the road at a supermarket than the local care home"

    THIS. 1000x this.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,829

    Unison: 'you can earn two or three £ more an hour down the road at a supermarket than the local care home"

    THIS. 1000x this.

    A relative of mine left their job at a McDonalds to go back into care work, which they'd worked in before. Big mistake, financially speaking.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,829

    I have a problem. I'm worried my friend might be an antisemite. I went round to his house yesterday and we chatted about all sorts of things like we usually do. He's much more left wing than me and we eventually got onto the issue of Starmer, about whom he was most displeased. Not surprisingly we then started to discuss Gaza. He's expressed before his strong feelings about the Palestinian cause. I tend to feel there are an awful lot of other causes as well. It wasn't so much that he saw Starmer as a warmonger but thought he had opportunistically got rid of some of his more left wing frontbenchers and was enjoying rubbing the Corbynites' noses in the dirt.

    I'm generally fairly calm in debate, even a little humourous, but even I found the blood pressure rising as we went back and forth. I asked who he blamed the current situation on and he said Netanyahu. Now I wouldn't want to defend the man but I said I thought the fundamental problem was Iran, an enormously larger neighbour (sort of) that was committed to Israel's destruction. He then asked if Iran was actually capable of destroying Israel. I didn't think so and so for him this made it all academic. I tried again with 110m people in Egypt not so long ago under the control of the Muslim Brotherhood but he wasn't shifting.

    We then come to the issue of solutions. For him what mattered was ending the indiscriminate killing of people in Gaza and a one state solution as an end goal. He made the point that there would be an Arab majority eventually to which I suggested that might not be great for the Jews. However since it was impossible to say what would happen in future he didn't think my concerns were valid. Whatever the evils of the Holocaust Jews had not been seriously persecuted in the west since 1945. I took that as a suggestion that even if the Jews were forced out of Israel they could always re-settle in western countries. But that seemed to display a remarkable indifference to me, an explanation for which I couldn't put my finger on.

    Never a pleasant experience to encounter fundamental differences of opinion with friends (not over trivial matters), even if it not felt to to rise to the level of antisemitism.

    For me the most awkwardness has been visiting inlaw relations whose default 'jokes' seems to frequently involve wishing the death of anybody who has ever voted Tory. But at least that does not involve getting into distressing arguments about matters.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,829

    Republicans against Trump
    @RpsAgainstTrump
    This Muslim fundamentalist who leads the campaign against Biden in swing states, says he’s not worried about Trump getting elected president:

    “We have to send an important message...It may take 12 years, 20 years but at least we’ll send a message so in the future, next time there’s a Democrat in the WH he won't take our votes for granted.”

    https://twitter.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1731719610737570002


    ===

    I think you'll find you've been deported mate, long, long before the next Democrat.

    Voting for the least worst option is not a great experience, but there's a reason it often happens - sometimes sitting it out will be even worse.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,707
    kle4 said:

    I have a problem. I'm worried my friend might be an antisemite. I went round to his house yesterday and we chatted about all sorts of things like we usually do. He's much more left wing than me and we eventually got onto the issue of Starmer, about whom he was most displeased. Not surprisingly we then started to discuss Gaza. He's expressed before his strong feelings about the Palestinian cause. I tend to feel there are an awful lot of other causes as well. It wasn't so much that he saw Starmer as a warmonger but thought he had opportunistically got rid of some of his more left wing frontbenchers and was enjoying rubbing the Corbynites' noses in the dirt.

    I'm generally fairly calm in debate, even a little humourous, but even I found the blood pressure rising as we went back and forth. I asked who he blamed the current situation on and he said Netanyahu. Now I wouldn't want to defend the man but I said I thought the fundamental problem was Iran, an enormously larger neighbour (sort of) that was committed to Israel's destruction. He then asked if Iran was actually capable of destroying Israel. I didn't think so and so for him this made it all academic. I tried again with 110m people in Egypt not so long ago under the control of the Muslim Brotherhood but he wasn't shifting.

    We then come to the issue of solutions. For him what mattered was ending the indiscriminate killing of people in Gaza and a one state solution as an end goal. He made the point that there would be an Arab majority eventually to which I suggested that might not be great for the Jews. However since it was impossible to say what would happen in future he didn't think my concerns were valid. Whatever the evils of the Holocaust Jews had not been seriously persecuted in the west since 1945. I took that as a suggestion that even if the Jews were forced out of Israel they could always re-settle in western countries. But that seemed to display a remarkable indifference to me, an explanation for which I couldn't put my finger on.

    Never a pleasant experience to encounter fundamental differences of opinion with friends (not over trivial matters), even if it not felt to to rise to the level of antisemitism.

    For me the most awkwardness has been visiting inlaw relations whose default 'jokes' seems to frequently involve wishing the death of anybody who has ever voted Tory. But at least that does not involve getting into distressing arguments about matters.
    We parted on perfectly good terms but it has stuck in my mind.
  • eek said:

    eek said:

    https://twitter.com/SimonFRCox/status/1731729555096834189
    Simon Cox
    @SimonFRCox
    Cleverly’s complaint that 75% of care workers dependants aren’t working is deliberate deceit - dependants includes *children*.

    It does undermine the idea that immigration can be used as a quick fix for the dependency ratio.
    Worth pulling in some figures



    Remember it's 65,000 visas for partners out of 1.3million immigrants into the country.
    Those figures can't be the full picture because there were 152,980 visas given to dependants of students alone.

    image
    Out of interest is there anything in Cleverly's announcement to stop students bringing dependents into the country?

    (Am I alone in wondering why we ever allow that anyway?)
    Because they pay through the nose to come here, universities and the national balance of payments need the fee income, and if we tell them they can't bring their families, they will go elsewhere?

    Besides, aren't the Conservatives meant to be the Party Of Family Values?
    As much coming from Nigeria and India each as from the Rest of the World combined suggests there is something fishy going on though.
    Nigeria and India have the 2nd and 3rd largest English-speaking populations in the world.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,829
    I'm not generally a fan of elected representatives spending much time engaging in petty trolling, but Fetterman has seemed to display both integrity and humour effectively at times.

    Former Congressman George Santos is now offering personalized video messages through the website Cameo, and it appears one of his first customers is Senator John Fetterman (D-PA).

    Fetterman posted the support video he commissioned from the expelled congressman on X (formerly known as Twitter), where he noted that the video was to give 'some encouragement' to Senator Bob Menendez (D-NJ) 'given his substantial legal problems.'

    https://www.meidastouch.com/news/fetterman-trolls-menendez-with-santos-cameo
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,789

    I have a problem. I'm worried my friend might be an antisemite. I went round to his house yesterday and we chatted about all sorts of things like we usually do. He's much more left wing than me and we eventually got onto the issue of Starmer, about whom he was most displeased. Not surprisingly we then started to discuss Gaza. He's expressed before his strong feelings about the Palestinian cause. I tend to feel there are an awful lot of other causes as well. It wasn't so much that he saw Starmer as a warmonger but thought he had opportunistically got rid of some of his more left wing frontbenchers and was enjoying rubbing the Corbynites' noses in the dirt.

    I'm generally fairly calm in debate, even a little humourous, but even I found the blood pressure rising as we went back and forth. I asked who he blamed the current situation on and he said Netanyahu. Now I wouldn't want to defend the man but I said I thought the fundamental problem was Iran, an enormously larger neighbour (sort of) that was committed to Israel's destruction. He then asked if Iran was actually capable of destroying Israel. I didn't think so and so for him this made it all academic. I tried again with 110m people in Egypt not so long ago under the control of the Muslim Brotherhood but he wasn't shifting.

    We then come to the issue of solutions. For him what mattered was ending the indiscriminate killing of people in Gaza and a one state solution as an end goal. He made the point that there would be an Arab majority eventually to which I suggested that might not be great for the Jews. However since it was impossible to say what would happen in future he didn't think my concerns were valid. Whatever the evils of the Holocaust Jews had not been seriously persecuted in the west since 1945. I took that as a suggestion that even if the Jews were forced out of Israel they could always re-settle in western countries. But that seemed to display a remarkable indifference to me, an explanation for which I couldn't put my finger on.

    The rise of social media and sharing has meant that we know more about people these days, and that means more we don't like. It is improbable that other people will share exactly the same views as oneself. You have to decide where the cutoff line is. I have had friends whose views I found reprehensible or even disgusting. As I grew older they fell away, usually thru my neglect. Now I have fewer friends, and I think that is better. But other people have a greater need for socialisation and you may draw the line differently.

    But whatever decision you take, it is your decision and your responsibility. Keep them or drop them, it's up to you. But it is up to you. Good luck.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,314

    I have a problem. I'm worried my friend might be an antisemite. I went round to his house yesterday and we chatted about all sorts of things like we usually do. He's much more left wing than me and we eventually got onto the issue of Starmer, about whom he was most displeased. Not surprisingly we then started to discuss Gaza. He's expressed before his strong feelings about the Palestinian cause. I tend to feel there are an awful lot of other causes as well. It wasn't so much that he saw Starmer as a warmonger but thought he had opportunistically got rid of some of his more left wing frontbenchers and was enjoying rubbing the Corbynites' noses in the dirt.

    I'm generally fairly calm in debate, even a little humourous, but even I found the blood pressure rising as we went back and forth. I asked who he blamed the current situation on and he said Netanyahu. Now I wouldn't want to defend the man but I said I thought the fundamental problem was Iran, an enormously larger neighbour (sort of) that was committed to Israel's destruction. He then asked if Iran was actually capable of destroying Israel. I didn't think so and so for him this made it all academic. I tried again with 110m people in Egypt not so long ago under the control of the Muslim Brotherhood but he wasn't shifting.

    We then come to the issue of solutions. For him what mattered was ending the indiscriminate killing of people in Gaza and a one state solution as an end goal. He made the point that there would be an Arab majority eventually to which I suggested that might not be great for the Jews. However since it was impossible to say what would happen in future he didn't think my concerns were valid. Whatever the evils of the Holocaust Jews had not been seriously persecuted in the west since 1945. I took that as a suggestion that even if the Jews were forced out of Israel they could always re-settle in western countries. But that seemed to display a remarkable indifference to me, an explanation for which I couldn't put my finger on.

    The fact that your friend doesn't agree with you doesn't make him an antisemite.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,706
    kle4 said:

    Unison: 'you can earn two or three £ more an hour down the road at a supermarket than the local care home"

    THIS. 1000x this.

    A relative of mine left their job at a McDonalds to go back into care work, which they'd worked in before. Big mistake, financially speaking.
    Back in the days when I did photography I worked with a model who was a heroin addict (unknown to me at the time). She regaled me with stories of working in the care home sector which largely involved being sex-pested by the elderly female patients who claimed they needed various 'bits' extra soapy-cleaned.

    Which made me doubly shudder once I knew she had been shooting up during her breaks.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,706

    This is a really interesting point.


    Tim Montgomerie 🇬🇧
    @montie
    ·
    4h
    The Tories repeatedly promised controlled immigration and didn't deliver. Meanwhile Starmer is promising pound-sized economic change with penny-sized half measures. Both parties are playing dangerous games with our democracy.



    If Starmer fails to turn things around in a couple of years could we see Farage Party at 30% in polls?

    On the upside - if he burns down the Reichstag Houses of Parliament it would save us a few billion in repair bills.

    Look on the bright side!
  • kle4 said:

    Unison: 'you can earn two or three £ more an hour down the road at a supermarket than the local care home"

    THIS. 1000x this.

    A relative of mine left their job at a McDonalds to go back into care work, which they'd worked in before. Big mistake, financially speaking.
    I know far more than I would like about the care sector.

    Seems to me there are three classes of worker: Vocational - they do it for the love of their fellow man and the emotional side of looking after the vulnerable (they stay for years and are probably now middle aged); just there temporarily for quick cash before they move on in six months; and, a few, torn between the two sides.

    If the final set were given another £4 a hour they might become the first set.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753

    I have a problem. I'm worried my friend might be an antisemite. I went round to his house yesterday and we chatted about all sorts of things like we usually do. He's much more left wing than me and we eventually got onto the issue of Starmer, about whom he was most displeased. Not surprisingly we then started to discuss Gaza. He's expressed before his strong feelings about the Palestinian cause. I tend to feel there are an awful lot of other causes as well. It wasn't so much that he saw Starmer as a warmonger but thought he had opportunistically got rid of some of his more left wing frontbenchers and was enjoying rubbing the Corbynites' noses in the dirt.

    I'm generally fairly calm in debate, even a little humourous, but even I found the blood pressure rising as we went back and forth. I asked who he blamed the current situation on and he said Netanyahu. Now I wouldn't want to defend the man but I said I thought the fundamental problem was Iran, an enormously larger neighbour (sort of) that was committed to Israel's destruction. He then asked if Iran was actually capable of destroying Israel. I didn't think so and so for him this made it all academic. I tried again with 110m people in Egypt not so long ago under the control of the Muslim Brotherhood but he wasn't shifting.

    We then come to the issue of solutions. For him what mattered was ending the indiscriminate killing of people in Gaza and a one state solution as an end goal. He made the point that there would be an Arab majority eventually to which I suggested that might not be great for the Jews. However since it was impossible to say what would happen in future he didn't think my concerns were valid. Whatever the evils of the Holocaust Jews had not been seriously persecuted in the west since 1945. I took that as a suggestion that even if the Jews were forced out of Israel they could always re-settle in western countries. But that seemed to display a remarkable indifference to me, an explanation for which I couldn't put my finger on.

    Your own damn fool fault for discussing Israel/Gaza with anyone in particular a friend.
  • ohnotnow said:

    This is a really interesting point.


    Tim Montgomerie 🇬🇧
    @montie
    ·
    4h
    The Tories repeatedly promised controlled immigration and didn't deliver. Meanwhile Starmer is promising pound-sized economic change with penny-sized half measures. Both parties are playing dangerous games with our democracy.



    If Starmer fails to turn things around in a couple of years could we see Farage Party at 30% in polls?

    On the upside - if he burns down the Reichstag Houses of Parliament it would save us a few billion in repair bills.

    Look on the bright side!
    Always look on the bright side...
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118


    I assume this photo was on here earlier… pretty mental of Jezza?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,789
    TOPPING said:

    I have a problem. I'm worried my friend might be an antisemite. I went round to his house yesterday and we chatted about all sorts of things like we usually do. He's much more left wing than me and we eventually got onto the issue of Starmer, about whom he was most displeased. Not surprisingly we then started to discuss Gaza. He's expressed before his strong feelings about the Palestinian cause. I tend to feel there are an awful lot of other causes as well. It wasn't so much that he saw Starmer as a warmonger but thought he had opportunistically got rid of some of his more left wing frontbenchers and was enjoying rubbing the Corbynites' noses in the dirt.

    I'm generally fairly calm in debate, even a little humourous, but even I found the blood pressure rising as we went back and forth. I asked who he blamed the current situation on and he said Netanyahu. Now I wouldn't want to defend the man but I said I thought the fundamental problem was Iran, an enormously larger neighbour (sort of) that was committed to Israel's destruction. He then asked if Iran was actually capable of destroying Israel. I didn't think so and so for him this made it all academic. I tried again with 110m people in Egypt not so long ago under the control of the Muslim Brotherhood but he wasn't shifting.

    We then come to the issue of solutions. For him what mattered was ending the indiscriminate killing of people in Gaza and a one state solution as an end goal. He made the point that there would be an Arab majority eventually to which I suggested that might not be great for the Jews. However since it was impossible to say what would happen in future he didn't think my concerns were valid. Whatever the evils of the Holocaust Jews had not been seriously persecuted in the west since 1945. I took that as a suggestion that even if the Jews were forced out of Israel they could always re-settle in western countries. But that seemed to display a remarkable indifference to me, an explanation for which I couldn't put my finger on.

    Your own damn fool fault for discussing Israel/Gaza with anyone in particular a friend.
    Fair point. It should be on PB instead where people can discuss it calmly and dispassionately.

    (ducks)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,829
    isam said:



    I assume this photo was on here earlier… pretty mental of Jezza?

    The man has very strong branding.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    Nigelb said:

    image
    "And you say the ordinary people have ice cubes too? Amazing."

    First Light Fusion's target, I think ?
    Yep which meant trying to come up with a realistic quip has taken some time - that “ice cube” is the target designed to focus the energy to reach critical temperatures and densities

    This focusses things so that come the next election you will get the votes of just the true believers.
    I thought you might have done something with their fusion technique being inspired by a shrimp...
    Well, the SHRIMP device did quite a bit of fusion in the Castle Bravo test.

    Rather more than was wanted, actually.

    Lithium 7 says hello.
    Different shrimp.

    https://firstlightfusion.com/technology/targets
    ...First Light’s journey to a new method for fusion started in nature, with the pistol shrimp. The pistol shrimp has an oversized claw, which it can “click” shut at very high speed. The motion is so fast that it launches a shock wave into the water and stresses it so much that it rips apart and forms a bubble. The shock wave and the bubble interact and the bubble collapses just as quickly as it forms. The vapour inside is heated to tens of thousands of degrees and emits a bright flash of light...

    Of course the energies are vastly higher, and methods of much greater complexity, but the principle of focusing pressure waves is similar.
    Indeed - implosion triggered another way…

  • Paul Brand
    @PaulBrandITV
    ·
    5h
    NEW: Older people's charity
    @age_uk
    on the new immigration rules.

    "It is an open secret that inward migration effectively 'saved' the social care workforce last year and, as things stand, anything that undermines that source of support must be a real concern."
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    kle4 said:

    isam said:



    I assume this photo was on here earlier… pretty mental of Jezza?

    The man has very strong branding.
    Interviewing a band called Kneecap, no less

    https://x.com/corbyn_project/status/1731623117804413093?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
  • kle4 said:

    isam said:



    I assume this photo was on here earlier… pretty mental of Jezza?

    The man has very strong branding.
    Shoring up the core vote in Islington??

  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269
    carnforth said:

    Government loses tainted blood commons vote.

    Good.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,595
    edited December 2023

    Unison: 'you can earn two or three £ more an hour down the road at a supermarket than the local care home"

    THIS. 1000x this.

    I'm not sure populating care homes with high turnover foreign workers is a terribly good solution to a staff shortage in such a sensitive job.

    Care at home would be better than care homes, but care visitors suffer from a high turnover too, so none of them really get to know the 'patient' or what they need. The council don't pay enough but somehow the cost to the end user who does pay is upwards of £25 / hr, despite the minimum wage staff - even here in the cheap seats.

    We have 'solved' this by doing the job ourselves but obviously that has a big downside.

    The whole business needs a massive shakeup. Though it would appear to be an election loser, so nobody wants to touch it.

  • I have a problem. I'm worried my friend might be an antisemite. I went round to his house yesterday and we chatted about all sorts of things like we usually do. He's much more left wing than me and we eventually got onto the issue of Starmer, about whom he was most displeased. Not surprisingly we then started to discuss Gaza. He's expressed before his strong feelings about the Palestinian cause. I tend to feel there are an awful lot of other causes as well. It wasn't so much that he saw Starmer as a warmonger but thought he had opportunistically got rid of some of his more left wing frontbenchers and was enjoying rubbing the Corbynites' noses in the dirt.

    I'm generally fairly calm in debate, even a little humourous, but even I found the blood pressure rising as we went back and forth. I asked who he blamed the current situation on and he said Netanyahu. Now I wouldn't want to defend the man but I said I thought the fundamental problem was Iran, an enormously larger neighbour (sort of) that was committed to Israel's destruction. He then asked if Iran was actually capable of destroying Israel. I didn't think so and so for him this made it all academic. I tried again with 110m people in Egypt not so long ago under the control of the Muslim Brotherhood but he wasn't shifting.

    We then come to the issue of solutions. For him what mattered was ending the indiscriminate killing of people in Gaza and a one state solution as an end goal. He made the point that there would be an Arab majority eventually to which I suggested that might not be great for the Jews. However since it was impossible to say what would happen in future he didn't think my concerns were valid. Whatever the evils of the Holocaust Jews had not been seriously persecuted in the west since 1945. I took that as a suggestion that even if the Jews were forced out of Israel they could always re-settle in western countries. But that seemed to display a remarkable indifference to me, an explanation for which I couldn't put my finger on.

    The fact that your friend doesn't agree with you doesn't make him an antisemite.
    Forcing on a one state solution on Israel even if they don't want it and being indifferent to how a future Palestinian government treated Jews in such a state does seem like something an anti-Semite would believe.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,878

    I have a problem. I'm worried my friend might be an antisemite. I went round to his house yesterday and we chatted about all sorts of things like we usually do. He's much more left wing than me and we eventually got onto the issue of Starmer, about whom he was most displeased. Not surprisingly we then started to discuss Gaza. He's expressed before his strong feelings about the Palestinian cause. I tend to feel there are an awful lot of other causes as well. It wasn't so much that he saw Starmer as a warmonger but thought he had opportunistically got rid of some of his more left wing frontbenchers and was enjoying rubbing the Corbynites' noses in the dirt.

    I'm generally fairly calm in debate, even a little humourous, but even I found the blood pressure rising as we went back and forth. I asked who he blamed the current situation on and he said Netanyahu. Now I wouldn't want to defend the man but I said I thought the fundamental problem was Iran, an enormously larger neighbour (sort of) that was committed to Israel's destruction. He then asked if Iran was actually capable of destroying Israel. I didn't think so and so for him this made it all academic. I tried again with 110m people in Egypt not so long ago under the control of the Muslim Brotherhood but he wasn't shifting.

    We then come to the issue of solutions. For him what mattered was ending the indiscriminate killing of people in Gaza and a one state solution as an end goal. He made the point that there would be an Arab majority eventually to which I suggested that might not be great for the Jews. However since it was impossible to say what would happen in future he didn't think my concerns were valid. Whatever the evils of the Holocaust Jews had not been seriously persecuted in the west since 1945. I took that as a suggestion that even if the Jews were forced out of Israel they could always re-settle in western countries. But that seemed to display a remarkable indifference to me, an explanation for which I couldn't put my finger on.

    The fact that your friend doesn't agree with you doesn't make him an antisemite.
    Forcing on a one state solution on Israel even if they don't want it and being indifferent to how a future Palestinian government treated Jews in such a state does seem like something an anti-Semite would believe.
    Isn't there a single state now? Israel?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,829
    Is Corbyn going to throw his hat in the ring for London mayor or not? It's time to take the plunge, his Labour opponents are going to win big nationally despite the anger of his supporters, so might as well go out with a bang.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,226
    @Austmonarchist
    BREAKING NEWS: #KingCharlesIII and #QueenCamilla, will be travelling to #Australia & #NewZealand in October 2024.

    This Royal visit will coincide with the Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting, which is happening in Apia, Tuamasaga, Samoa from the 21st to the 25th of October
    https://x.com/Austmonarchist/status/1731767450906046815?s=20
  • MJWMJW Posts: 1,723
    TOPPING said:

    I have a problem. I'm worried my friend might be an antisemite. I went round to his house yesterday and we chatted about all sorts of things like we usually do. He's much more left wing than me and we eventually got onto the issue of Starmer, about whom he was most displeased. Not surprisingly we then started to discuss Gaza. He's expressed before his strong feelings about the Palestinian cause. I tend to feel there are an awful lot of other causes as well. It wasn't so much that he saw Starmer as a warmonger but thought he had opportunistically got rid of some of his more left wing frontbenchers and was enjoying rubbing the Corbynites' noses in the dirt.

    I'm generally fairly calm in debate, even a little humourous, but even I found the blood pressure rising as we went back and forth. I asked who he blamed the current situation on and he said Netanyahu. Now I wouldn't want to defend the man but I said I thought the fundamental problem was Iran, an enormously larger neighbour (sort of) that was committed to Israel's destruction. He then asked if Iran was actually capable of destroying Israel. I didn't think so and so for him this made it all academic. I tried again with 110m people in Egypt not so long ago under the control of the Muslim Brotherhood but he wasn't shifting.

    We then come to the issue of solutions. For him what mattered was ending the indiscriminate killing of people in Gaza and a one state solution as an end goal. He made the point that there would be an Arab majority eventually to which I suggested that might not be great for the Jews. However since it was impossible to say what would happen in future he didn't think my concerns were valid. Whatever the evils of the Holocaust Jews had not been seriously persecuted in the west since 1945. I took that as a suggestion that even if the Jews were forced out of Israel they could always re-settle in western countries. But that seemed to display a remarkable indifference to me, an explanation for which I couldn't put my finger on.

    Your own damn fool fault for discussing Israel/Gaza with anyone in particular a friend.
    It's a fair point - never discuss Gaza with friends. There also is unlikely to be any animus to his ignorant (and dangerous if it were acted on) indifference though. It's just a certain completely callous attitude towards Israel (and more widely Jews, by implication once one gets through the weeds of what that means and results in) has become so unquestioned and embedded in specific parts of the left, those saying these things don't really quite understand the horrors they're advocating or tacitly accepting as the price for ending other, admitted horrors.

    And perhaps why those who might be on the end of said horrors (and were on 7 October), might take a rather different view to someone who never will be from the comfort of their fashionable, distant opinions.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,467
    kle4 said:

    Is Corbyn going to throw his hat in the ring for London mayor or not? It's time to take the plunge, his Labour opponents are going to win big nationally despite the anger of his supporters, so might as well go out with a bang.

    Please no. Don’t even joke about it.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,467
    HYUFD said:

    @Austmonarchist
    BREAKING NEWS: #KingCharlesIII and #QueenCamilla, will be travelling to #Australia & #NewZealand in October 2024.

    This Royal visit will coincide with the Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting, which is happening in Apia, Tuamasaga, Samoa from the 21st to the 25th of October
    https://x.com/Austmonarchist/status/1731767450906046815?s=20

    Who cares?
  • MJWMJW Posts: 1,723
    kle4 said:

    Is Corbyn going to throw his hat in the ring for London mayor or not? It's time to take the plunge, his Labour opponents are going to win big nationally despite the anger of his supporters, so might as well go out with a bang.

    It would really get quite ugly if he did, given his best hope would be to run a horrible Gallowayesque campaign aimed at pitting people against each other while claiming to stand for 'peace'.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,135

    HYUFD said:

    @Austmonarchist
    BREAKING NEWS: #KingCharlesIII and #QueenCamilla, will be travelling to #Australia & #NewZealand in October 2024.

    This Royal visit will coincide with the Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting, which is happening in Apia, Tuamasaga, Samoa from the 21st to the 25th of October
    https://x.com/Austmonarchist/status/1731767450906046815?s=20

    Who cares?
    Indeed.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,657
    edited December 2023
    rcs1000 said:

    I have a problem. I'm worried my friend might be an antisemite. I went round to his house yesterday and we chatted about all sorts of things like we usually do. He's much more left wing than me and we eventually got onto the issue of Starmer, about whom he was most displeased. Not surprisingly we then started to discuss Gaza. He's expressed before his strong feelings about the Palestinian cause. I tend to feel there are an awful lot of other causes as well. It wasn't so much that he saw Starmer as a warmonger but thought he had opportunistically got rid of some of his more left wing frontbenchers and was enjoying rubbing the Corbynites' noses in the dirt.

    I'm generally fairly calm in debate, even a little humourous, but even I found the blood pressure rising as we went back and forth. I asked who he blamed the current situation on and he said Netanyahu. Now I wouldn't want to defend the man but I said I thought the fundamental problem was Iran, an enormously larger neighbour (sort of) that was committed to Israel's destruction. He then asked if Iran was actually capable of destroying Israel. I didn't think so and so for him this made it all academic. I tried again with 110m people in Egypt not so long ago under the control of the Muslim Brotherhood but he wasn't shifting.

    We then come to the issue of solutions. For him what mattered was ending the indiscriminate killing of people in Gaza and a one state solution as an end goal. He made the point that there would be an Arab majority eventually to which I suggested that might not be great for the Jews. However since it was impossible to say what would happen in future he didn't think my concerns were valid. Whatever the evils of the Holocaust Jews had not been seriously persecuted in the west since 1945. I took that as a suggestion that even if the Jews were forced out of Israel they could always re-settle in western countries. But that seemed to display a remarkable indifference to me, an explanation for which I couldn't put my finger on.

    The fact that your friend doesn't agree with you doesn't make him an antisemite.
    Forcing on a one state solution on Israel even if they don't want it and being indifferent to how a future Palestinian government treated Jews in such a state does seem like something an anti-Semite would believe.
    Isn't there a single state now? Israel?
    Yes, but there are two large chunks of land called Gaza and the West Bank which are controlled by Israel but whose inhabitants don't exactly get the full-citizens-of-Israel treatment. The 'One State Solution' means that everyone in Israel, Gaza and the West Bank would become equal under the sun. But Israel tends to reject this approach for reasons of demographics.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,423
    edited December 2023

    That picture in the header is surely deserving of a caption competition:

    image
    "Our chances of winning the next election are about this big." ?

    "Ice* Ice Baby"

    *Internal combustion engine
  • Unison: 'you can earn two or three £ more an hour down the road at a supermarket than the local care home"

    THIS. 1000x this.

    I'm not sure populating care homes with high turnover foreign workers is a terribly good solution to a staff shortage in such a sensitive job.

    Care at home would be better than care homes, but care visitors suffer from a high turnover too, so none of them really get to know the 'patient' or what they need. The council don't pay enough but somehow the cost to the end user who does pay is upwards of £25 / hr, despite the minimum wage staff - even here in the cheap seats.

    We have 'solved' this by doing the job ourselves but obviously that has a big downside.

    The whole business needs a massive shakeup. Though it would appear to be an election loser, so nobody wants to touch it.

    In my local town I've seen the impact of this migration just inside the last 18 months.

    There are a significant number of extra Indian and African care workers pushing around disabled and elderly people than there were pre-Covid, when many were European and here on a temporary basis.
  • This is a really interesting point.


    Tim Montgomerie 🇬🇧
    @montie
    ·
    4h
    The Tories repeatedly promised controlled immigration and didn't deliver. Meanwhile Starmer is promising pound-sized economic change with penny-sized half measures. Both parties are playing dangerous games with our democracy.



    If Starmer fails to turn things around in a couple of years could we see Farage Party at 30% in polls?

    So, I'm not a Labour supporter but I think it's very important for the future stability of our democracy that they deliver for their base if they take office.

    I don't want a radical left-wing party taking over that might end up attacking private property rights, or extra-democratic "action" that causes mass disruption to our way of life.

    Nor do I want the hard-right counterreaction to that.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314

    The Premier League has concluded deals with Sky Sports and TNT Sports for five UK live packages and with BBC Sport for the free-to-air highlights package. All three agreements will cover the four-year period starting Season 2025/26 and are the largest sports media rights deals ever concluded in the UK.

    Sky Sports has been awarded live rights packages B, C, D and E, covering a minimum of 215 live matches per season, which will include more than 140 matches played at weekends, evening matches on Fridays and Mondays, and full coverage of three midweek match rounds. For the first time, Sky Sports will also broadcast all 10 matches on the final day of each season.

    TNT Sports has been awarded live rights package A, covering 52 live matches per season, including exclusive coverage of matches played on Saturdays at 12.30pm and full coverage of two midweek match rounds.

    For the first time in the UK, all matches taking place outside of the Saturday 3pm "closed period", including those displaced to Sunday 2pm because of club participation in European competitions, will be broadcast live.


    https://www.premierleague.com/news/3807882

    So they’ve managed to not sort out the 3pm issue for at least another six years, past May 2030?

    Not that it bothers me of course, I can still watch every game live - and thanks to the internet, so can most fans if they really want to.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    Three quarters of Brits now too poor to marry a foreigner

    https://twitter.com/Smyth_Chris/status/1731732325401047354

    No any Brit can marry a foreigner provided the foreigner earns over £38k a year or is in a shortage occupation
    So someone like my father - a doctor - marrying a foreign woman who chooses to stay at home to bring up children would now be unable to do so. If such a rule had been in place, he would have left England. So rather than gain a skilled migrant Britain would have lost one and 2 skilled children who have also contributed a load of taxes to this country.

    Brilliant. Just brilliant.

    I thought you lot were in favour of traditional stable families.

    Is there anyone left in the Tory party able to think through the consequences of what they announce? Anyone at all?
    Well would have freed up some housing and demand for public services.

    Seriously though I think the annual minimum gross income for the foreign spouse and their UK partner so the spouse gets a visa stays at £18,600.

    This is just foreign workers in the UK being banned from bringing over family members unless those family members earn over £38k
    Still very much wrong, but slightly warmer than the previous answer.
  • MJWMJW Posts: 1,723

    rcs1000 said:

    I have a problem. I'm worried my friend might be an antisemite. I went round to his house yesterday and we chatted about all sorts of things like we usually do. He's much more left wing than me and we eventually got onto the issue of Starmer, about whom he was most displeased. Not surprisingly we then started to discuss Gaza. He's expressed before his strong feelings about the Palestinian cause. I tend to feel there are an awful lot of other causes as well. It wasn't so much that he saw Starmer as a warmonger but thought he had opportunistically got rid of some of his more left wing frontbenchers and was enjoying rubbing the Corbynites' noses in the dirt.

    I'm generally fairly calm in debate, even a little humourous, but even I found the blood pressure rising as we went back and forth. I asked who he blamed the current situation on and he said Netanyahu. Now I wouldn't want to defend the man but I said I thought the fundamental problem was Iran, an enormously larger neighbour (sort of) that was committed to Israel's destruction. He then asked if Iran was actually capable of destroying Israel. I didn't think so and so for him this made it all academic. I tried again with 110m people in Egypt not so long ago under the control of the Muslim Brotherhood but he wasn't shifting.

    We then come to the issue of solutions. For him what mattered was ending the indiscriminate killing of people in Gaza and a one state solution as an end goal. He made the point that there would be an Arab majority eventually to which I suggested that might not be great for the Jews. However since it was impossible to say what would happen in future he didn't think my concerns were valid. Whatever the evils of the Holocaust Jews had not been seriously persecuted in the west since 1945. I took that as a suggestion that even if the Jews were forced out of Israel they could always re-settle in western countries. But that seemed to display a remarkable indifference to me, an explanation for which I couldn't put my finger on.

    The fact that your friend doesn't agree with you doesn't make him an antisemite.
    Forcing on a one state solution on Israel even if they don't want it and being indifferent to how a future Palestinian government treated Jews in such a state does seem like something an anti-Semite would believe.
    Isn't there a single state now? Israel?
    Yes, but there are two large chunks of land called Gaza and the West Bank which are controlled by Israel but whose inhabitants don't exactly get the full-citizens-of-Israel treatment. The 'One State Solution' means that everyone in Israel, Gaza and the West Bank would become equal under the sun. But Israel tends to reject this approach for reasons of demographics.
    'Demographic reasons' is a hell of a euphemism for 'there's a strong chance they would end up living under a government intent on their extermination'.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154

    rcs1000 said:

    I have a problem. I'm worried my friend might be an antisemite. I went round to his house yesterday and we chatted about all sorts of things like we usually do. He's much more left wing than me and we eventually got onto the issue of Starmer, about whom he was most displeased. Not surprisingly we then started to discuss Gaza. He's expressed before his strong feelings about the Palestinian cause. I tend to feel there are an awful lot of other causes as well. It wasn't so much that he saw Starmer as a warmonger but thought he had opportunistically got rid of some of his more left wing frontbenchers and was enjoying rubbing the Corbynites' noses in the dirt.

    I'm generally fairly calm in debate, even a little humourous, but even I found the blood pressure rising as we went back and forth. I asked who he blamed the current situation on and he said Netanyahu. Now I wouldn't want to defend the man but I said I thought the fundamental problem was Iran, an enormously larger neighbour (sort of) that was committed to Israel's destruction. He then asked if Iran was actually capable of destroying Israel. I didn't think so and so for him this made it all academic. I tried again with 110m people in Egypt not so long ago under the control of the Muslim Brotherhood but he wasn't shifting.

    We then come to the issue of solutions. For him what mattered was ending the indiscriminate killing of people in Gaza and a one state solution as an end goal. He made the point that there would be an Arab majority eventually to which I suggested that might not be great for the Jews. However since it was impossible to say what would happen in future he didn't think my concerns were valid. Whatever the evils of the Holocaust Jews had not been seriously persecuted in the west since 1945. I took that as a suggestion that even if the Jews were forced out of Israel they could always re-settle in western countries. But that seemed to display a remarkable indifference to me, an explanation for which I couldn't put my finger on.

    The fact that your friend doesn't agree with you doesn't make him an antisemite.
    Forcing on a one state solution on Israel even if they don't want it and being indifferent to how a future Palestinian government treated Jews in such a state does seem like something an anti-Semite would believe.
    Isn't there a single state now? Israel?
    Yes, but there are two large chunks of land called Gaza and the West Bank which are controlled by Israel but whose inhabitants don't exactly get the full-citizens-of-Israel treatment. The 'One State Solution' means that everyone in Israel, Gaza and the West Bank would become equal under the sun. But Israel tends to reject this approach for reasons of demographics.
    It certainly would *not* mean that, for the aforesaid reasons of demographics.

    Anyone who talks glibly of a ‘one state solution’ is one of three things: (1) a rabid Zionist trying to pretend to be reasonable (2) a rabid antisemite trying to pretend to be reasonable (3) a complete idiot who doesn’t understand the blindingly obvious implications.

    The catch is Netanyahu is (1) and Hamas and their supporters are (2).
  • Penddu2Penddu2 Posts: 686
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I have a problem. I'm worried my friend might be an antisemite. I went round to his house yesterday and we chatted about all sorts of things like we usually do. He's much more left wing than me and we eventually got onto the issue of Starmer, about whom he was most displeased. Not surprisingly we then started to discuss Gaza. He's expressed before his strong feelings about the Palestinian cause. I tend to feel there are an awful lot of other causes as well. It wasn't so much that he saw Starmer as a warmonger but thought he had opportunistically got rid of some of his more left wing frontbenchers and was enjoying rubbing the Corbynites' noses in the dirt.

    I'm generally fairly calm in debate, even a little humourous, but even I found the blood pressure rising as we went back and forth. I asked who he blamed the current situation on and he said Netanyahu. Now I wouldn't want to defend the man but I said I thought the fundamental problem was Iran, an enormously larger neighbour (sort of) that was committed to Israel's destruction. He then asked if Iran was actually capable of destroying Israel. I didn't think so and so for him this made it all academic. I tried again with 110m people in Egypt not so long ago under the control of the Muslim Brotherhood but he wasn't shifting.

    We then come to the issue of solutions. For him what mattered was ending the indiscriminate killing of people in Gaza and a one state solution as an end goal. He made the point that there would be an Arab majority eventually to which I suggested that might not be great for the Jews. However since it was impossible to say what would happen in future he didn't think my concerns were valid. Whatever the evils of the Holocaust Jews had not been seriously persecuted in the west since 1945. I took that as a suggestion that even if the Jews were forced out of Israel they could always re-settle in western countries. But that seemed to display a remarkable indifference to me, an explanation for which I couldn't put my finger on.

    The fact that your friend doesn't agree with you doesn't make him an antisemite.
    Forcing on a one state solution on Israel even if they don't want it and being indifferent to how a future Palestinian government treated Jews in such a state does seem like something an anti-Semite would believe.
    Isn't there a single state now? Israel?
    Yes, but there are two large chunks of land called Gaza and the West Bank which are controlled by Israel but whose inhabitants don't exactly get the full-citizens-of-Israel treatment. The 'One State Solution' means that everyone in Israel, Gaza and the West Bank would become equal under the sun. But Israel tends to reject this approach for reasons of demographics.
    It certainly would *not* mean that, for the aforesaid reasons of demographics.

    Anyone who talks glibly of a ‘one state solution’ is one of three things: (1) a rabid Zionist trying to pretend to be reasonable (2) a rabid antisemite trying to pretend to be reasonable (3) a complete idiot who doesn’t understand the blindingly obvious implications.

    The catch is Netanyahu is (1) and Hamas and their supporters are (2).
    While American Presidents often fall into (3)
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,656
    edited December 2023
    HYUFD said:

    @Austmonarchist
    BREAKING NEWS: #KingCharlesIII and #QueenCamilla, will be travelling to #Australia & #NewZealand in October 2024.

    This Royal visit will coincide with the Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting, which is happening in Apia, Tuamasaga, Samoa from the 21st to the 25th of October
    https://x.com/Austmonarchist/status/1731767450906046815?s=20

    Wasn't October 24th seen as one of the most likely dates for the GE?

    This would appear to pretty much rule it out.

    It may also rule out October 17th as Charles would need to be here to appoint a new PM - likely on the 18th but wouldn't they have to allow for possibility of it dragging on if no clear cut result. And he might be leaving by the 18th anyway if they are doing a tour rather than just going to the meeting.

    It may also reduce the chances of October 31st because surely Sunak couldn't go all the way to Australia in the last 10 days of the campaign.

    So that meeting looks like it havs major implications for timing of GE.
  • swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,463
    MikeL said:

    HYUFD said:

    @Austmonarchist
    BREAKING NEWS: #KingCharlesIII and #QueenCamilla, will be travelling to #Australia & #NewZealand in October 2024.

    This Royal visit will coincide with the Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting, which is happening in Apia, Tuamasaga, Samoa from the 21st to the 25th of October
    https://x.com/Austmonarchist/status/1731767450906046815?s=20

    Wasn't October 24th seen as one of the most likely dates for the GE?

    This would appear to pretty much rule it out.

    It may also rule out October 17th as Charles would need to be here to appoint a new PM - likely on the 18th but wouldn't they have to allow for possibility of it dragging on if no clear cut result. And he might be leaving by the 18th anyway if they are doing a tour rather than just going to the meeting.

    It may also reduce the chances of October 31st because surely Sunak couldn't go all the way to Australia in the last 10 days of the campaign.

    So that meeting looks like it havs major implications for timing of GE.
    Oct just seems like agony for everyone.... my money is on Apr/May.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    Penddu2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I have a problem. I'm worried my friend might be an antisemite. I went round to his house yesterday and we chatted about all sorts of things like we usually do. He's much more left wing than me and we eventually got onto the issue of Starmer, about whom he was most displeased. Not surprisingly we then started to discuss Gaza. He's expressed before his strong feelings about the Palestinian cause. I tend to feel there are an awful lot of other causes as well. It wasn't so much that he saw Starmer as a warmonger but thought he had opportunistically got rid of some of his more left wing frontbenchers and was enjoying rubbing the Corbynites' noses in the dirt.

    I'm generally fairly calm in debate, even a little humourous, but even I found the blood pressure rising as we went back and forth. I asked who he blamed the current situation on and he said Netanyahu. Now I wouldn't want to defend the man but I said I thought the fundamental problem was Iran, an enormously larger neighbour (sort of) that was committed to Israel's destruction. He then asked if Iran was actually capable of destroying Israel. I didn't think so and so for him this made it all academic. I tried again with 110m people in Egypt not so long ago under the control of the Muslim Brotherhood but he wasn't shifting.

    We then come to the issue of solutions. For him what mattered was ending the indiscriminate killing of people in Gaza and a one state solution as an end goal. He made the point that there would be an Arab majority eventually to which I suggested that might not be great for the Jews. However since it was impossible to say what would happen in future he didn't think my concerns were valid. Whatever the evils of the Holocaust Jews had not been seriously persecuted in the west since 1945. I took that as a suggestion that even if the Jews were forced out of Israel they could always re-settle in western countries. But that seemed to display a remarkable indifference to me, an explanation for which I couldn't put my finger on.

    The fact that your friend doesn't agree with you doesn't make him an antisemite.
    Forcing on a one state solution on Israel even if they don't want it and being indifferent to how a future Palestinian government treated Jews in such a state does seem like something an anti-Semite would believe.
    Isn't there a single state now? Israel?
    Yes, but there are two large chunks of land called Gaza and the West Bank which are controlled by Israel but whose inhabitants don't exactly get the full-citizens-of-Israel treatment. The 'One State Solution' means that everyone in Israel, Gaza and the West Bank would become equal under the sun. But Israel tends to reject this approach for reasons of demographics.
    It certainly would *not* mean that, for the aforesaid reasons of demographics.

    Anyone who talks glibly of a ‘one state solution’ is one of three things: (1) a rabid Zionist trying to pretend to be reasonable (2) a rabid antisemite trying to pretend to be reasonable (3) a complete idiot who doesn’t understand the blindingly obvious implications.

    The catch is Netanyahu is (1) and Hamas and their supporters are (2).
    While American Presidents often fall into (3)
    To be fair, I can’t think of many US presidents in n recent years who have openly advocated one state solutions.

    That may just mean I haven’t been paying attention to their every word on Israel, of course.

    They are generally idiots in other ways, however.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,423
    GTA VI trailer up to 40 million views in 6 hours. Going to save up some Annual Leave for it (released in 2025...)
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    MikeL said:

    HYUFD said:

    @Austmonarchist
    BREAKING NEWS: #KingCharlesIII and #QueenCamilla, will be travelling to #Australia & #NewZealand in October 2024.

    This Royal visit will coincide with the Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting, which is happening in Apia, Tuamasaga, Samoa from the 21st to the 25th of October
    https://x.com/Austmonarchist/status/1731767450906046815?s=20

    Wasn't October 24th seen as one of the most likely dates for the GE?

    This would appear to pretty much rule it out.

    It may also rule out October 17th as Charles would need to be here to appoint a new PM - likely on the 18th but wouldn't they have to allow for possibility of it dragging on if no clear cut result. And he might be leaving by the 18th anyway if they are doing a tour rather than just going to the meeting.

    It may also reduce the chances of October 31st because surely Sunak couldn't go all the way to Australia in the last 10 days of the campaign.

    So that meeting looks like it havs major implications for timing of GE.
    Good points. Oct 24th has been the favourite date for a while now, but that Comonwealth meeting makes it somewhat unlikely. Oct 10th possibly, otherwise it’s looking like a return to spring elections. 2nd May, to coincide with the locals?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    Eabhal said:

    GTA VI trailer up to 40 million views in 6 hours. Going to save up some Annual Leave for it (released in 2025...)

    Biggest release in gaming media history I would have thought.

    There’s already 50m PS5s and 20m of the latest XBox out there, plus hundreds of millions of PCs - and pretty much everyone will want what’s undoubtedly the game of the decade.

    There’s going to be a couple of billion dollars in sales, in the first few weeks.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,656
    edited December 2023
    Sandpit said:

    MikeL said:

    HYUFD said:

    @Austmonarchist
    BREAKING NEWS: #KingCharlesIII and #QueenCamilla, will be travelling to #Australia & #NewZealand in October 2024.

    This Royal visit will coincide with the Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting, which is happening in Apia, Tuamasaga, Samoa from the 21st to the 25th of October
    https://x.com/Austmonarchist/status/1731767450906046815?s=20

    Wasn't October 24th seen as one of the most likely dates for the GE?

    This would appear to pretty much rule it out.

    It may also rule out October 17th as Charles would need to be here to appoint a new PM - likely on the 18th but wouldn't they have to allow for possibility of it dragging on if no clear cut result. And he might be leaving by the 18th anyway if they are doing a tour rather than just going to the meeting.

    It may also reduce the chances of October 31st because surely Sunak couldn't go all the way to Australia in the last 10 days of the campaign.

    So that meeting looks like it havs major implications for timing of GE.
    Good points. Oct 24th has been the favourite date for a while now, but that Comonwealth meeting makes it somewhat unlikely. Oct 10th possibly, otherwise it’s looking like a return to spring elections. 2nd May, to coincide with the locals?
    Charles would surely be at the Commonwealth meeting on the first day - ie Oct 21st.

    The meeting is in Samoa and he is doing a "tour" of Australia first.

    So on reflection I think he would be leaving the UK around about Oct 13th or 14th. I reckon that could easily rule out an Oct 10th GE as well.

    This is surely a massive consideration.

    Oct 17th, 24th and 31st all look definitely out.

    Oct 10th looks likely out - as Charles couldn't delay his tour and would have to be here if it took even 2 or 3 days for PM to emerge.

    Nov 7th is also probably out as Sunak couldn't go all the way to Australia mid campaign.

    I'm surprised nobody has spotted this before now.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    What on Earth would we do without Matt? Just brilliant! :smiley:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/0/matt-cartoons-december-2023/

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,509
    The latest wrinkle in the water utility scandal - the injection of funds which was spun as an equity injection was actually funded by more debt issued by the holding company.

    It's increasingly sounding as though Thames (for example) is insolvent - and are hoping that the regulator will bail them out at bill payers' expense.

    More investment in the infrastructure is needed, but funding that by what is going to be very expensive borrowing by a dodgy company is going to be far more expensive than it need be.
    Time for government to look at putting some of these companies into administration.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    MikeL said:



    So that meeting looks like it havs major implications for timing of GE.

    Big Rish can always just sack it off, it's only the Commonwealth. They can't even do the eBay Olympics anymore so what's it for?

    It's nothing compared to a GE. KC can send Baldy and his haggard Mrs.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,200
    Are the Tories confident of a poll bounce to get them within striking range of Labour by May ?

    I’m still not convinced that this May talk is realistic. Given the Royal visit , early October or November looks a bit more likely .

    Of course there’s always the chance Sunak could hang on right into January 2025 . That does look desperate though and not sure the public would be in a great mood after the Christmas come down .
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    nico679 said:

    Are the Tories confident of a poll bounce to get them within striking range of Labour by May ?

    I’m still not convinced that this May talk is realistic. Given the Royal visit , early October or November looks a bit more likely .

    Of course there’s always the chance Sunak could hang on right into January 2025 . That does look desperate though and not sure the public would be in a great mood after the Christmas come down .

    Recall Theresa May, get a poll bounce?

    Well, it might work. More likely to work than the current idiots in Cabinet are.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,853
    Sandpit said:

    Eabhal said:

    GTA VI trailer up to 40 million views in 6 hours. Going to save up some Annual Leave for it (released in 2025...)

    Biggest release in gaming media history I would have thought.

    There’s already 50m PS5s and 20m of the latest XBox out there, plus hundreds of millions of PCs - and pretty much everyone will want what’s undoubtedly the game of the decade.

    There’s going to be a couple of billion dollars in sales, in the first few weeks.
    It's not going to be on PC almost unbelievably apparently
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,316
    Nigelb said:

    The latest wrinkle in the water utility scandal - the injection of funds which was spun as an equity injection was actually funded by more debt issued by the holding company.

    It's increasingly sounding as though Thames (for example) is insolvent - and are hoping that the regulator will bail them out at bill payers' expense.

    More investment in the infrastructure is needed, but funding that by what is going to be very expensive borrowing by a dodgy company is going to be far more expensive than it need be.
    Time for government to look at putting some of these companies into administration.

    Absolutely

    The water sector is a rip off. Time to make the shareholders face up to their responsibilities. Clearing out Ofwat is also needed.
  • Good morning, everyone.

    Got to admit, I'm far more interested in Dragon's Dogma 2 than GTA VI, although the latter will sell far more.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Eabhal said:

    GTA VI trailer up to 40 million views in 6 hours. Going to save up some Annual Leave for it (released in 2025...)

    Biggest release in gaming media history I would have thought.

    There’s already 50m PS5s and 20m of the latest XBox out there, plus hundreds of millions of PCs - and pretty much everyone will want what’s undoubtedly the game of the decade.

    There’s going to be a couple of billion dollars in sales, in the first few weeks.
    It's not going to be on PC almost unbelievably apparently
    In that case, there’s about to be another PS5 shortage!
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706
    edited December 2023

    Nigelb said:

    The latest wrinkle in the water utility scandal - the injection of funds which was spun as an equity injection was actually funded by more debt issued by the holding company.

    It's increasingly sounding as though Thames (for example) is insolvent - and are hoping that the regulator will bail them out at bill payers' expense.

    More investment in the infrastructure is needed, but funding that by what is going to be very expensive borrowing by a dodgy company is going to be far more expensive than it need be.
    Time for government to look at putting some of these companies into administration.

    Absolutely

    The water sector is a rip off. Time to make the shareholders face up to their responsibilities. Clearing out Ofwat is also needed.
    Those that bought the water companies were effectively buying a long term bond which paid a dividend financed by the customers bills. They then used this bonded income to release huge amounts of capital by borrowing on that bond at very low interest rates. Unfortunately, the cost of that borrowing has now gone up so either the income flow from the customers has to increase or they have to pay back some of the monies released to reduce the borrowing to a sustainable rate.

    All of this was fairly rational behaviour from those buying our assets. The assumption that they could continue to borrow indefinitely at such low interest rates was of course stupid but the capital they have been able to release from the companies means that they have got all or sometimes more than all their purchase price back already.

    What is far more unforgiveable is the incompetent buffoons in OFWAT that let the purchasers pile up the debt in these companies in the first place, essentially putting the cost of the risk of an increase in interest rates on the customer rather than the shareholder. Yet another regulator that has simply not been up to the mark.
  • MikeL said:

    Sandpit said:

    MikeL said:

    HYUFD said:

    @Austmonarchist
    BREAKING NEWS: #KingCharlesIII and #QueenCamilla, will be travelling to #Australia & #NewZealand in October 2024.

    This Royal visit will coincide with the Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting, which is happening in Apia, Tuamasaga, Samoa from the 21st to the 25th of October
    https://x.com/Austmonarchist/status/1731767450906046815?s=20

    Wasn't October 24th seen as one of the most likely dates for the GE?

    This would appear to pretty much rule it out.

    It may also rule out October 17th as Charles would need to be here to appoint a new PM - likely on the 18th but wouldn't they have to allow for possibility of it dragging on if no clear cut result. And he might be leaving by the 18th anyway if they are doing a tour rather than just going to the meeting.

    It may also reduce the chances of October 31st because surely Sunak couldn't go all the way to Australia in the last 10 days of the campaign.

    So that meeting looks like it havs major implications for timing of GE.
    Good points. Oct 24th has been the favourite date for a while now, but that Comonwealth meeting makes it somewhat unlikely. Oct 10th possibly, otherwise it’s looking like a return to spring elections. 2nd May, to coincide with the locals?
    Charles would surely be at the Commonwealth meeting on the first day - ie Oct 21st.

    The meeting is in Samoa and he is doing a "tour" of Australia first.

    So on reflection I think he would be leaving the UK around about Oct 13th or 14th. I reckon that could easily rule out an Oct 10th GE as well.

    This is surely a massive consideration.

    Oct 17th, 24th and 31st all look definitely out.

    Oct 10th looks likely out - as Charles couldn't delay his tour and would have to be here if it took even 2 or 3 days for PM to emerge.

    Nov 7th is also probably out as Sunak couldn't go all the way to Australia mid campaign.

    I'm surprised nobody has spotted this before now.
    It was mentioned in a Times column a few weeks back. How viable is early October? Doesn't it mean calling the election mid-recess?

    I'm reminded of that paradox about the man who is told he will be executed one morning next week, but not when...
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,316
    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    The latest wrinkle in the water utility scandal - the injection of funds which was spun as an equity injection was actually funded by more debt issued by the holding company.

    It's increasingly sounding as though Thames (for example) is insolvent - and are hoping that the regulator will bail them out at bill payers' expense.

    More investment in the infrastructure is needed, but funding that by what is going to be very expensive borrowing by a dodgy company is going to be far more expensive than it need be.
    Time for government to look at putting some of these companies into administration.

    Absolutely

    The water sector is a rip off. Time to make the shareholders face up to their responsibilities. Clearing out Ofwat is also needed.
    Those that bought the water companies were effectively buying a long term bond which paid a dividend financed by the customers bills. They then used this bonded income to release huge amounts of capital by borrowing on that bond at very low interest rates. Unfortunately, the cost of that borrowing has now gone up so either the income flow from the customers has to increase or they have to pay back some of the monies released to reduce the borrowing to a sustainable rate.

    All of this was fairly rational behaviour from those buying our assets. The assumption that they could continue to borrow indefinitely at such low interest rates was of course stupid but the capital they have been able to release from the companies means that they have got all or sometimes more than all their purchase price back already.

    What is far more unforgiveable is the incompetent buffoons in OFWAT that let the purchasers pile up the debt in these companies in the first place, essentially putting the cost of the risk of an increase in interest rates on the customer rather than the shareholder. Yet another regulator that has simply not been up to the mark.
    Very corporate David, but having recently spent 3 years working in the industry it is a bastion of poor practice, responsibility ducking and executive greed. The professional investors in the sector appear to have gone in for the wrong reasons and do not realise what they have taken on. The relationship between Ofwat and the water cos is lamentable with the regulator not being fit for purpose. Thames and some of the others are like Southern are on shaky finances. I suspect they will need to fall back in to public ownership.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190
    ...
    nico679 said:

    Are the Tories confident of a poll bounce to get them within striking range of Labour by May ?

    I’m still not convinced that this May talk is realistic. Given the Royal visit , early October or November looks a bit more likely .

    Of course there’s always the chance Sunak could hang on right into January 2025 . That does look desperate though and not sure the public would be in a great mood after the Christmas come down .

    May might be a good shout.

    If the ramifications of Cleverly's announcement yesterday have time to feed in, the NHS and the care sector will likely as not have imploded. Implementing the announcement in April on the other hand might get some good client media headlines before reality bites. Rwanda too, best to see the headlines rather than the reality.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706
    See that @Cyclefree seems to be getting one of her wish list from the fag end of this government, despite its best efforts not to do the right thing: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67615379

    The idea that having been shamed by this revolt they would use the Lords to modify it is almost beyond belief, even for Sunak. Not so much a tin ear as stone deaf.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,509
    edited December 2023
    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    The latest wrinkle in the water utility scandal - the injection of funds which was spun as an equity injection was actually funded by more debt issued by the holding company.

    It's increasingly sounding as though Thames (for example) is insolvent - and are hoping that the regulator will bail them out at bill payers' expense.

    More investment in the infrastructure is needed, but funding that by what is going to be very expensive borrowing by a dodgy company is going to be far more expensive than it need be.
    Time for government to look at putting some of these companies into administration.

    Absolutely

    The water sector is a rip off. Time to make the shareholders face up to their responsibilities. Clearing out Ofwat is also needed.
    Those that bought the water companies were effectively buying a long term bond which paid a dividend financed by the customers bills. They then used this bonded income to release huge amounts of capital by borrowing on that bond at very low interest rates. Unfortunately, the cost of that borrowing has now gone up so either the income flow from the customers has to increase or they have to pay back some of the monies released to reduce the borrowing to a sustainable rate.

    All of this was fairly rational behaviour from those buying our assets. The assumption that they could continue to borrow indefinitely at such low interest rates was of course stupid but the capital they have been able to release from the companies means that they have got all or sometimes more than all their purchase price back already. ..

    It was only rational if greed and irresponsibility are rational. They took an enormous gamble by borrowing using short term debt to fund long term obligations. The bill payers and taxpayers should not further pay for the outcome if that gamble. Bankrupt them and put them into public ownership (in the short term at least).

    I entirely agree that the regulator - and successive governments - have been useless at holding them to account. That doesn't let the thieves off the hook.

    It would be an outrage were the regulator to bail them out again.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,474

    ...

    nico679 said:

    Are the Tories confident of a poll bounce to get them within striking range of Labour by May ?

    I’m still not convinced that this May talk is realistic. Given the Royal visit , early October or November looks a bit more likely .

    Of course there’s always the chance Sunak could hang on right into January 2025 . That does look desperate though and not sure the public would be in a great mood after the Christmas come down .

    May might be a good shout.

    If the ramifications of Cleverly's announcement yesterday have time to feed in, the NHS and the care sector will likely as not have imploded. Implementing the announcement in April on the other hand might get some good client media headlines before reality bites. Rwanda too, best to see the headlines rather than the reality.
    I think May too.

    A budget that establishes clear blue water, and no chance for backbench unrest to cause a further leadership contest.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,668
    Gotta admire Larry Elliot on the Groaniad

    Telling its readers the UK economy is actually doing OK, Brexit is not a disaster, in some ways the EU is worse off = no way Rejoin will ever be a thing

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/dec/05/brexit-disaster-rejoining-channel-europe-economy
  • NEW THREAD

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,878

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    The latest wrinkle in the water utility scandal - the injection of funds which was spun as an equity injection was actually funded by more debt issued by the holding company.

    It's increasingly sounding as though Thames (for example) is insolvent - and are hoping that the regulator will bail them out at bill payers' expense.

    More investment in the infrastructure is needed, but funding that by what is going to be very expensive borrowing by a dodgy company is going to be far more expensive than it need be.
    Time for government to look at putting some of these companies into administration.

    Absolutely

    The water sector is a rip off. Time to make the shareholders face up to their responsibilities. Clearing out Ofwat is also needed.
    Those that bought the water companies were effectively buying a long term bond which paid a dividend financed by the customers bills. They then used this bonded income to release huge amounts of capital by borrowing on that bond at very low interest rates. Unfortunately, the cost of that borrowing has now gone up so either the income flow from the customers has to increase or they have to pay back some of the monies released to reduce the borrowing to a sustainable rate.

    All of this was fairly rational behaviour from those buying our assets. The assumption that they could continue to borrow indefinitely at such low interest rates was of course stupid but the capital they have been able to release from the companies means that they have got all or sometimes more than all their purchase price back already.

    What is far more unforgiveable is the incompetent buffoons in OFWAT that let the purchasers pile up the debt in these companies in the first place, essentially putting the cost of the risk of an increase in interest rates on the customer rather than the shareholder. Yet another regulator that has simply not been up to the mark.
    Very corporate David, but having recently spent 3 years working in the industry it is a bastion of poor practice, responsibility ducking and executive greed. The professional investors in the sector appear to have gone in for the wrong reasons and do not realise what they have taken on. The relationship between Ofwat and the water cos is lamentable with the regulator not being fit for purpose. Thames and some of the others are like Southern are on shaky finances. I suspect they will need to fall back in to public ownership.
    Just wait until I introduce you to the electricity supply companies.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,878
    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Eabhal said:

    GTA VI trailer up to 40 million views in 6 hours. Going to save up some Annual Leave for it (released in 2025...)

    Biggest release in gaming media history I would have thought.

    There’s already 50m PS5s and 20m of the latest XBox out there, plus hundreds of millions of PCs - and pretty much everyone will want what’s undoubtedly the game of the decade.

    There’s going to be a couple of billion dollars in sales, in the first few weeks.
    It's not going to be on PC almost unbelievably apparently
    The PC version of GTA5 followed six months later; I suspect it will be the same here.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,878
    edited December 2023
    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Eabhal said:

    GTA VI trailer up to 40 million views in 6 hours. Going to save up some Annual Leave for it (released in 2025...)

    Biggest release in gaming media history I would have thought.

    There’s already 50m PS5s and 20m of the latest XBox out there, plus hundreds of millions of PCs - and pretty much everyone will want what’s undoubtedly the game of the decade.

    There’s going to be a couple of billion dollars in sales, in the first few weeks.
    It's not going to be on PC almost unbelievably apparently
    The PC version of GTA5 followed six months later; I suspect it will be the same here.
    I was wrong:

    "Grand Theft Auto V" (GTA 5) was initially released for console platforms in September 2013. The game later launched on PC on April 14, 2015.
  • theProletheProle Posts: 1,178
    edited December 2023
    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    The latest wrinkle in the water utility scandal - the injection of funds which was spun as an equity injection was actually funded by more debt issued by the holding company.

    It's increasingly sounding as though Thames (for example) is insolvent - and are hoping that the regulator will bail them out at bill payers' expense.

    More investment in the infrastructure is needed, but funding that by what is going to be very expensive borrowing by a dodgy company is going to be far more expensive than it need be.
    Time for government to look at putting some of these companies into administration.

    Absolutely

    The water sector is a rip off. Time to make the shareholders face up to their responsibilities. Clearing out Ofwat is also needed.
    Those that bought the water companies were effectively buying a long term bond which paid a dividend financed by the customers bills. They then used this bonded income to release huge amounts of capital by borrowing on that bond at very low interest rates. Unfortunately, the cost of that borrowing has now gone up so either the income flow from the customers has to increase or they have to pay back some of the monies released to reduce the borrowing to a sustainable rate.

    All of this was fairly rational behaviour from those buying our assets. The assumption that they could continue to borrow indefinitely at such low interest rates was of course stupid but the capital they have been able to release from the companies means that they have got all or sometimes more than all their purchase price back already.

    What is far more unforgiveable is the incompetent buffoons in OFWAT that let the purchasers pile up the debt in these companies in the first place, essentially putting the cost of the risk of an increase in interest rates on the customer rather than the shareholder. Yet another regulator that has simply not been up to the mark.
    Why does this matter, unless OFWAT are as foolish as to let them increase their prices to service their unnecessary debts. The physical assets remain whatever happens. If they go broke, the administratiors will sell the business/physical assets (which is almost certainly profitable without the debt loading), return what it can to the lenders and that will be that. The owners get wiped out (who cares), the lenders will take a nasty haircut (that should teach them to do a bit more due diligence), and the business will continue belonging to someone or other else.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,080
    kinabalu said:

    Question To Which The Answer Is Yes.

    (@DougSeal can't make it so asked me to fill in)

    I feel I should point out that I didn't have advance notice of this polling analysis when I wrote my piece.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,080
    TOPPING said:

    She and KK will be kicking themselves but all they missed was a funding plan. Now, maybe there wasn't one in which case they could only not provide one.

    But I know there were a lot of Cons who liked the messaging but needed some detail on the numbers. For KK who has a PhD in this stuff it was unforgiveable but I hear from friends that he has a touch of the Borises about him wrt hard work.

    The baffling thing about it was that they could have made some unrealistic promises about efficiency savings in departmental spending - like every other government since the dawn of time - and it would have made the numbers add up sufficiently well to hide the nasty details in the small print.

    Quite why they thought forbidding the OBR from saying anything would be more convincing is the crucial unanswered question.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,080
    algarkirk said:

    viewcode said:

    All the complaints about the BBC may or may not be justified. I'll just say what I've always said on the matter


    • We need something to unite us as a nation
    • Given the change in the way we watch, a drop in its viewing figures is inevitable
    • If we were still forced to watch television in the way we used to - one set, three/four/five channels - we would think it was a golden age on the BBC
    • PB is dependent on the BBC's political coverage, and we would really miss programmes like Laura Kuenssberg: State of Chaos
    • Every other non-UK alternative (Netflix, CNN, YouTube) cannot replace it because of its parochial nature
    So although I am comfortable with discussions of alternate funding models and its scope, I would regret the departure of the BBC. In fact, given their recent gutting of its news programmes and journalist staff, its news/current affairs/documentaries funding should be expanded not contracted.

    Having now definitively settled the matter, you can now speak of something else. You're welcome. :)

    See also
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/genres/factual/politics
    The direction of travel of the BBC and its fate is not only a cause and consequence of something but also a symptom.

    Viewcode says we need something to unite us as a nation. Maybe. But it does not follow that this will actually occur.

    The BBC was a candidate for this. PB alone indicates this is no more. Other candidates abound or once did; each person can make their own commentary:

    The Crown/Crown in Parliament
    Christian culture/church
    The NHS
    Effortless superiority of being top dog
    The good chaps theory of government
    Empire
    The anglophone world
    Common law and legal system
    An incorruptible civil order
    'No sex please we're British'
    Our traditions of policing by consent
    A locally spread out aristocracy with obligations as well as rights
    Stiff upper lip/reserve
    John Stuart Mill 'On Liberty'
    The Times/Oxford/Cambridge
    'Fair play' or 'It's not cricket'
    The threat from Vikings/Normans/The French/The Germans/The Russians/Johnny Foreigner.

    FWIW I struggle to identify now what would hold us together as a nation, unless it is a literati writing endless articles Why Oh Why on the loss of one or more of the above. Because of reasons.
    One of the things that has become glaringly obvious since moving to Ireland is that every country is catastrophically badly run, but in its own unique and specific ways. I remember an erstwhile acquaintance who moved to Denmark who made essentially this point by blogging about the frustrations of life in Denmark as well.

    If you only ever compare the specific ways in which your own country is falling to pieces with other countries then it's easy to think that your country is performing particularly badly. But Britain is mostly okay in lots of ways, and notably decent in a few.

    I think it would probably make it easier to fix the things that are broken if people were able to feel a bit of pride in the things that weren't. Otherwise people become cynical and give up, and cynicism really is toxic.
This discussion has been closed.