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Could Liz Truss improve Tory fortunes? – politicalbetting.com

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  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,070

    Space comedy

    https://arstechnica.com/space/2023/12/italian-rocket-maker-has-a-problem-key-parts-of-final-vega-booster-were-trashed/

    “So, you lost some major components of the $35 million rocket?”

    "...The European Spaceflight newsletter reports that two of the four propellant tanks on the fourth stage of the Vega rocket—the upper stage, which is powered by dimethylhydrazine and nitrogen tetroxide solid fuel..."

    Three points
    • dimethylhydrazine and nitrogen tetroxide isn't solid fuel, it's two liquids
    • It's a hypergolic mix: when it mixes it explodes
    • It's extremely nasty
    So if they want the thieves, just look for the ones who are screaming with melting faces. On fire.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Skilled worker threshold for immigrants to rise to £38,700 from £26,000 as now Cleverly announces and health and social care workers will be unable to bring their families and dependents with them if they come to work here.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-67612152

    Should finally bring the immigration numbers down and maybe start winning back some ReformUK voters to the Tories

    You fail to mention that health and social care workers are exempt from the £38,700 threshold, and most will therefore continue to be paid appallingly low wages.

    Watch this space: it won't be long until employer pressure leads to other groups of workers 'needing' to be exempt. Nobody's going to pay that salary for many of the jobs that current migrants fill.
    And the government will hold the line, their priority is winning back Leave voters lost to ReformUK not containing bleets from some industries too reliant on foreign labour with less than a year until a general election
    The problem with that argument is that, in many of the sectors most dependent on foreign labour being paid less than 38k- health, social care, education, the direct or indirect employer is the government.
    Left hand and right hand not knowing what each other want is way too complicated for this government. Left hand doesn't even know what left hand wants, or remember what it wanted last month, which was probably the opposite.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,631
    Ratters said:

    New visa stuff is a bloody disaster for care sector imho.

    Have they any idea what is happening, staff-wise, in care homes?

    See:

    Mike Padgham, the chair of the Independent Care Group which runs several care homes in North Yorkshire tells us: “Well I think we are going to find more businesses fail, care homes closing.

    BBC News

    I agree it's a disaster as things stand, but should it be?

    Should these jobs not be well paid enough to attract UK residents to take them? E.g. a material step up from stacking shelves at supermarkets or other low skill jobs at or above minimum wage.

    Of course the implication is the cost of care would rise, and the state or those under care would shoulder the cost of that, but that's how things should be.

    Our migration policy shouldn't be determined just because there are business models that are reliant on an endless stream of cheap labour from overseas.
    Without adequate staffing in Social Care we wind up with people fit enough to discharge occupying an acute hospital bed.

    If only we had had a Prime Minister pledged to sort out Social Care...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,079
    edited December 2023

    New visa stuff is a bloody disaster for care sector imho.

    Have they any idea what is happening, staff-wise, in care homes?

    See:

    Mike Padgham, the chair of the Independent Care Group which runs several care homes in North Yorkshire tells us: “Well I think we are going to find more businesses fail, care homes closing.

    BBC News

    Isn't the stereotype that people of an age most likely to need care home assistance are the ones most in favour of restricting the arrival of people needed to staff said care homes?

    That may not match up exactly at the individual level, but I think we're in a place where the country needs to make a decision and take the consequences to see if it really can cope or not. We won't resolve the question any other way, and it will only get more rancrous.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,786
    Ratters said:

    New visa stuff is a bloody disaster for care sector imho.

    Have they any idea what is happening, staff-wise, in care homes?

    See:

    Mike Padgham, the chair of the Independent Care Group which runs several care homes in North Yorkshire tells us: “Well I think we are going to find more businesses fail, care homes closing.

    BBC News

    I agree it's a disaster as things stand, but should it be?

    Should these jobs not be well paid enough to attract UK residents to take them? E.g. a material step up from stacking shelves at supermarkets or other low skill jobs at or above minimum wage.

    Of course the implication is the cost of care would rise, and the state or those under care would shoulder the cost of that, but that's how things should be.

    Our migration policy shouldn't be determined just because there are business models that are reliant on an endless stream of cheap labour from overseas.
    Very well put. I was trying to find the words to articulate this and you've saved me the bother.
    Immigration is a bit of a ponzi scheme. It will be expensive to get out of it but tge longer we leave it the more expensive it will be.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368

    Pulpstar said:

    The Premier League has concluded deals with Sky Sports and TNT Sports for five UK live packages and with BBC Sport for the free-to-air highlights package. All three agreements will cover the four-year period starting Season 2025/26 and are the largest sports media rights deals ever concluded in the UK.

    Sky Sports has been awarded live rights packages B, C, D and E, covering a minimum of 215 live matches per season, which will include more than 140 matches played at weekends, evening matches on Fridays and Mondays, and full coverage of three midweek match rounds. For the first time, Sky Sports will also broadcast all 10 matches on the final day of each season.

    TNT Sports has been awarded live rights package A, covering 52 live matches per season, including exclusive coverage of matches played on Saturdays at 12.30pm and full coverage of two midweek match rounds.

    For the first time in the UK, all matches taking place outside of the Saturday 3pm "closed period", including those displaced to Sunday 2pm because of club participation in European competitions, will be broadcast live.


    https://www.premierleague.com/news/3807882

    I assume that means Amazon/Prime have lost out completely (or not bid)? Good news. This week's round of matches are all on Prime - a pain.
    Is it ?
    Prime is much cheaper than Sky
    Their coverage is absolutely awful.
    Hardly surprising given the fact anyone half decent is tied to a TNT / Sky exclusive contract
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,818
    edited December 2023
    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    Three quarters of Brits now too poor to marry a foreigner

    https://twitter.com/Smyth_Chris/status/1731732325401047354

    No any Brit can marry a foreigner provided the foreigner earns over £38k a year or is in a shortage occupation
    So someone like my father - a doctor - marrying a foreign woman who chooses to stay at home to bring up children would now be unable to do so. If such a rule had been in place, he would have left England. So rather than gain a skilled migrant Britain would have lost one and 2 skilled children who have also contributed a load of taxes to this country.

    Brilliant. Just brilliant.

    I thought you lot were in favour of traditional stable families.

    Is there anyone left in the Tory party able to think through the consequences of what they announce? Anyone at all?
    Motherhood is supposedly not a "shortage occupation", presumably. We can all see how daft that is.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653
    Ratters said:

    New visa stuff is a bloody disaster for care sector imho.

    Have they any idea what is happening, staff-wise, in care homes?

    See:

    Mike Padgham, the chair of the Independent Care Group which runs several care homes in North Yorkshire tells us: “Well I think we are going to find more businesses fail, care homes closing.

    BBC News

    I agree it's a disaster as things stand, but should it be?

    Should these jobs not be well paid enough to attract UK residents to take them? E.g. a material step up from stacking shelves at supermarkets or other low skill jobs at or above minimum wage.

    Of course the implication is the cost of care would rise, and the state or those under care would shoulder the cost of that, but that's how things should be.

    Our migration policy shouldn't be determined just because there are business models that are reliant on an endless stream of cheap labour from overseas.
    This is true but the government is driving up the costs without providing the means for those services which are government funded to cover those costs.

    It's a recipe for utter disaster.

    Sunak is like the man sat on the branch he is sawing off.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,138
    edited December 2023
    Ratters said:

    New visa stuff is a bloody disaster for care sector imho.

    Have they any idea what is happening, staff-wise, in care homes?

    See:

    Mike Padgham, the chair of the Independent Care Group which runs several care homes in North Yorkshire tells us: “Well I think we are going to find more businesses fail, care homes closing.

    BBC News

    I agree it's a disaster as things stand, but should it be?

    Should these jobs not be well paid enough to attract UK residents to take them? E.g. a material step up from stacking shelves at supermarkets or other low skill jobs at or above minimum wage.

    Of course the implication is the cost of care would rise, and the state or those under care would shoulder the cost of that, but that's how things should be.
    In the absence of Short-Term-Rishi's Short-Term-Predecessors having done anything useful about the Dilnot proposals, or anything else since, how will the resultant funding vs costs circle be squared at this point?
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,748
    algarkirk said:

    Chris said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Skilled worker threshold for immigrants to rise to £38,700 from £26,000 as now Cleverly announces and health and social care workers will be unable to bring their families and dependents with them if they come to work here.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-67612152

    Should finally bring the immigration numbers down and maybe start winning back some ReformUK voters to the Tories

    The next annual net figures are due at the end of November 2024. Another January 2025 election indicator?

    Certainly an indicator of a late autumn election at the earliest to give the immigration figures time to fall before the poll
    If that were the case, don't you think they'd be clamouring for the Rwanda flights to begin by then, rather than saying it's vital for them to begin by the Spring?
    For flights to happen, as oppose to being flights of fancy, new legislation needs to be in place in all probability. This would then (whatever it says) be tested in court both generically and by each individual involved.

    a) This can't happen before an election because the Lords will be able to delay long enough

    b) This can't happen before an election because only a court can decide the meaning and scope of legislation, including the meaning and scope of legislation purporting to be ousting the court's jurisdiction. Put 2026/7 into the diary for the SC hearing. (OTOH don't, as it will be abandoned by then).
    I suspect the fact that they know it's impossible for it to happen by the Spring is the reason they are saying it is so vital that it happens by the Spring.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,873
    Evening all :)

    Glancing at the R&W data tonight - 71% either certain or very likely to vote with only 6% Definite non voters and 7% Probable non voters so another pollster suggesting a very hight turnout.

    Among the 94% (excluding the Definite non voters), it's 37% Labour, 23% Conservative, 11% LD, 11% DK. 9% Reform and 5% Green.

    The 2019 Conservative vote splits 55% Conservative, 15% Reform, 13% Labour and 12% DK.

    Deltapoll keeps with the current herding and a 16-point Labour lead (43-27) with the LDs on 13.

    The last four polls have all come in about the same - Labour have slipped back from the mid 40s to the low 40s while the Conservatives remain in the mid 20s.

    With barely a third of Reform voters likely to return to the Conservatives, it still looks like around 30% at best for Sunak's party.

    14% swing Conservative to Labour on the R&W headline figures.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,908
    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    Glancing at the R&W data tonight - 71% either certain or very likely to vote with only 6% Definite non voters and 7% Probable non voters so another pollster suggesting a very hight turnout.

    Among the 94% (excluding the Definite non voters), it's 37% Labour, 23% Conservative, 11% LD, 11% DK. 9% Reform and 5% Green.

    The 2019 Conservative vote splits 55% Conservative, 15% Reform, 13% Labour and 12% DK.

    Deltapoll keeps with the current herding and a 16-point Labour lead (43-27) with the LDs on 13.

    The last four polls have all come in about the same - Labour have slipped back from the mid 40s to the low 40s while the Conservatives remain in the mid 20s.

    With barely a third of Reform voters likely to return to the Conservatives, it still looks like around 30% at best for Sunak's party.

    14% swing Conservative to Labour on the R&W headline figures.

    Today's measures to cut immigration targeted at Reform voters
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,375
    Ratters said:

    New visa stuff is a bloody disaster for care sector imho.

    Have they any idea what is happening, staff-wise, in care homes?

    See:

    Mike Padgham, the chair of the Independent Care Group which runs several care homes in North Yorkshire tells us: “Well I think we are going to find more businesses fail, care homes closing.

    BBC News

    I agree it's a disaster as things stand, but should it be?

    Should these jobs not be well paid enough to attract UK residents to take them? E.g. a material step up from stacking shelves at supermarkets or other low skill jobs at or above minimum wage.

    Of course the implication is the cost of care would rise, and the state or those under care would shoulder the cost of that, but that's how things should be.

    Our migration policy shouldn't be determined just because there are business models that are reliant on an endless stream of cheap labour from overseas.
    I agree with all of that. But the problem is that there is zero chance of the government funding councils well enough to finance higher wages in state-funded care. So the two-tier system (private vs. state-funded care) will become even more divided.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,138

    Chris said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Skilled worker threshold for immigrants to rise to £38,700 from £26,000 as now Cleverly announces and health and social care workers will be unable to bring their families and dependents with them if they come to work here.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-67612152

    Should finally bring the immigration numbers down and maybe start winning back some ReformUK voters to the Tories

    The next annual net figures are due at the end of November 2024. Another January 2025 election indicator?

    Certainly an indicator of a late autumn election at the earliest to give the immigration figures time to fall before the poll
    If that were the case, don't you think they'd be clamouring for the Rwanda flights to begin by then, rather than saying it's vital for them to begin by the Spring?
    "Certainly an indicator of a late autumn election at the earliest to give the immigration figures time to fall before the poll"

    As has been pointed out on Twix: the migration stats are lagged so nothing done now will make blind difference to the figures being seen at autumn election.

    In the New Statesman, Kevin Maguire reckons Cameron's appointment is a surefire sign any election won't be Autumn
    Why?
    It won't be the spring, as lambing season means no Battle Shepherds' Huts are available.
  • Foxy said:

    Ratters said:

    New visa stuff is a bloody disaster for care sector imho.

    Have they any idea what is happening, staff-wise, in care homes?

    See:

    Mike Padgham, the chair of the Independent Care Group which runs several care homes in North Yorkshire tells us: “Well I think we are going to find more businesses fail, care homes closing.

    BBC News

    I agree it's a disaster as things stand, but should it be?

    Should these jobs not be well paid enough to attract UK residents to take them? E.g. a material step up from stacking shelves at supermarkets or other low skill jobs at or above minimum wage.

    Of course the implication is the cost of care would rise, and the state or those under care would shoulder the cost of that, but that's how things should be.

    Our migration policy shouldn't be determined just because there are business models that are reliant on an endless stream of cheap labour from overseas.
    Without adequate staffing in Social Care we wind up with people fit enough to discharge occupying an acute hospital bed.

    If only we had had a Prime Minister pledged to sort out Social Care...
    Of course the care sector should pay wages that are sufficient to attract non-migrants.

    Social Care sector is an absolute disgrace. It shows an utter and total failure of the political class of both main parties to solve this over the last twenty odd years at least.

  • eekeek Posts: 28,368
    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    Glancing at the R&W data tonight - 71% either certain or very likely to vote with only 6% Definite non voters and 7% Probable non voters so another pollster suggesting a very hight turnout.

    Among the 94% (excluding the Definite non voters), it's 37% Labour, 23% Conservative, 11% LD, 11% DK. 9% Reform and 5% Green.

    The 2019 Conservative vote splits 55% Conservative, 15% Reform, 13% Labour and 12% DK.

    Deltapoll keeps with the current herding and a 16-point Labour lead (43-27) with the LDs on 13.

    The last four polls have all come in about the same - Labour have slipped back from the mid 40s to the low 40s while the Conservatives remain in the mid 20s.

    With barely a third of Reform voters likely to return to the Conservatives, it still looks like around 30% at best for Sunak's party.

    14% swing Conservative to Labour on the R&W headline figures.

    Today's measures to cut immigration targeted at Reform voters
    If that is the reason - it ain’t enough.

    It cuts the figure from 750,000 to 400,000 (say).

    Which to your typical reform voter is still 400,000 too many so an abject failure
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,984

    Hasn't the Labour lead in the polls been shrinking a bit, if only marginally?

    Not really:

    image
    LLG vs RefCon has shrunk a bit. In this one it’s 60 vs 36. Still a huge gap but not as big as the mid 60s we were seeing a month or so before.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067

    I feel sorry for @DougSeal, two Truss threads today and he’s nowhere to be seen.

    The idea of cloning Liz might appeal to him, though.
    An entire cabinet of Trusses could work real wonders.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,908

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    New visa stuff is a bloody disaster for care sector imho.

    Have they any idea what is happening, staff-wise, in care homes?

    See:

    Mike Padgham, the chair of the Independent Care Group which runs several care homes in North Yorkshire tells us: “Well I think we are going to find more businesses fail, care homes closing.

    BBC News

    Well if they are reliant on foreign workers bringing their extended families over that is their problem
    Well they are reliant on foreign workers because UK workers want more money than the foreign workers are willing to work for.

    And care home wages need to be kept low as councils cannot afford to pay more for the residents they pay for while privately paid for residents can’t be charged enough to make up the shortfall.

    And UK unemployed will lose all their benefits after 6 months if they do not look for and take any paid job offered to them regardless of salary as Hunt announced
    And what proportion of them do we, as a nation, actually want working in health and in social care?

    Caring for your parents, for example?
    Unless they are convicted violent criminals no reason why not
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,748
    edited December 2023
    HYUFD said:

    Three quarters of Brits now too poor to marry a foreigner

    https://twitter.com/Smyth_Chris/status/1731732325401047354

    No any Brit can marry a foreigner provided the foreigner earns over £38k a year or is in a shortage occupation
    I suppose we should be thankful that the government isn't making it illegal for us to marry foreigners at all.

    I sometimes wonder how traditional Conservatives can stomach any of this stuff.

    All this miserable crew cares about is desperately trying to salvage their own careers. They don't care what damage they do in the process. And it's doomed to failure anyway. Why can't they just go now?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653
    edited December 2023
    That picture in the header is surely deserving of a caption competition:

    image
    "Our chances of winning the next election are about this big." ?
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,078
    Nigelb said:

    I feel sorry for @DougSeal, two Truss threads today and he’s nowhere to be seen.

    The idea of cloning Liz might appeal to him, though.
    An entire cabinet of Trusses could work real wonders.
    I am still not sure that it would bolster Conservative support...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,079
    Chris said:

    HYUFD said:

    Three quarters of Brits now too poor to marry a foreigner

    https://twitter.com/Smyth_Chris/status/1731732325401047354

    No any Brit can marry a foreigner provided the foreigner earns over £38k a year or is in a shortage occupation
    I suppose we should be thankful that the government isn't making it illegal for us to marry foreigners at all.

    I sometimes wonder how traditional Conservatives can stomach any of this stuff.

    All this miserable crew cares about is desperately trying to salvage their own careers. They don't care what damage they do in the process. And it's doomed to failure anyway. Why can't they just go now?
    And let dangerous radical Sir Keir of Starmer take over?!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    Did we already do this ?
    If true, it ought to be possible to find out those implicated.

    People who made giant gambles against Israel on the markets in Tel Aviv and Wall Street days before Hamas’ attack made billions.

    Somebody seems to have known about the plan in advance

    https://twitter.com/haaretzcom/status/1731723790680530996
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,908
    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    Three quarters of Brits now too poor to marry a foreigner

    https://twitter.com/Smyth_Chris/status/1731732325401047354

    No any Brit can marry a foreigner provided the foreigner earns over £38k a year or is in a shortage occupation
    So someone like my father - a doctor - marrying a foreign woman who chooses to stay at home to bring up children would now be unable to do so. If such a rule had been in place, he would have left England. So rather than gain a skilled migrant Britain would have lost one and 2 skilled children who have also contributed a load of taxes to this country.

    Brilliant. Just brilliant.

    I thought you lot were in favour of traditional stable families.

    Is there anyone left in the Tory party able to think through the consequences of what they announce? Anyone at all?
    Well would have freed up some housing and demand for public services.

    Seriously though I think the annual minimum gross income for the foreign spouse and their UK partner so the spouse gets a visa stays at £18,600.

    This is just foreign workers in the UK being banned from bringing over family members unless those family members earn over £38k
  • Ratters said:

    New visa stuff is a bloody disaster for care sector imho.

    Have they any idea what is happening, staff-wise, in care homes?

    See:

    Mike Padgham, the chair of the Independent Care Group which runs several care homes in North Yorkshire tells us: “Well I think we are going to find more businesses fail, care homes closing.

    BBC News

    I agree it's a disaster as things stand, but should it be?

    Should these jobs not be well paid enough to attract UK residents to take them? E.g. a material step up from stacking shelves at supermarkets or other low skill jobs at or above minimum wage.

    Of course the implication is the cost of care would rise, and the state or those under care would shoulder the cost of that, but that's how things should be.

    Our migration policy shouldn't be determined just because there are business models that are reliant on an endless stream of cheap labour from overseas.
    I agree with all of that. But the problem is that there is zero chance of the government funding councils well enough to finance higher wages in state-funded care. So the two-tier system (private vs. state-funded care) will become even more divided.
    At least Boris saw there was a problem and attempted to do something.

    Never thought I would say this, but I'm beginning to miss him.

    If it wasn't for those stupid covid parties...
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,748
    Cookie said:

    Ratters said:

    New visa stuff is a bloody disaster for care sector imho.

    Have they any idea what is happening, staff-wise, in care homes?

    See:

    Mike Padgham, the chair of the Independent Care Group which runs several care homes in North Yorkshire tells us: “Well I think we are going to find more businesses fail, care homes closing.

    BBC News

    I agree it's a disaster as things stand, but should it be?

    Should these jobs not be well paid enough to attract UK residents to take them? E.g. a material step up from stacking shelves at supermarkets or other low skill jobs at or above minimum wage.

    Of course the implication is the cost of care would rise, and the state or those under care would shoulder the cost of that, but that's how things should be.

    Our migration policy shouldn't be determined just because there are business models that are reliant on an endless stream of cheap labour from overseas.
    Very well put. I was trying to find the words to articulate this and you've saved me the bother.
    Immigration is a bit of a ponzi scheme. It will be expensive to get out of it but tge longer we leave it the more expensive it will be.
    Well, Sunak and his cronies have an easy answer: abolish reliance on cheap foreign labour by cutting off the supply of cheap foreign labour, and ignore the problem of where better wages are going to come from. Fine as long as you're a multi-billionaire. Not so good for anyone needing care in the foreseeable future.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368
    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    Three quarters of Brits now too poor to marry a foreigner

    https://twitter.com/Smyth_Chris/status/1731732325401047354

    No any Brit can marry a foreigner provided the foreigner earns over £38k a year or is in a shortage occupation
    So someone like my father - a doctor - marrying a foreign woman who chooses to stay at home to bring up children would now be unable to do so. If such a rule had been in place, he would have left England. So rather than gain a skilled migrant Britain would have lost one and 2 skilled children who have also contributed a load of taxes to this country.

    Brilliant. Just brilliant.

    I thought you lot were in favour of traditional stable families.

    Is there anyone left in the Tory party able to think through the consequences of what they announce? Anyone at all?
    Well would have freed up some housing and demand for public services.

    Seriously though I think the annual minimum gross income for the foreign spouse and their UK partner so the spouse gets a visa stays at £18,600.

    This is just foreign workers in the UK being banned from bringing over family members unless those family members earn over £38k
    No it doesn’t - if you want to bring your foreign wife here you need to earn £38,700 or start thinking about a life abroad
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,079
    The difficult thing for the Tories is they can announce these policies and the target audience no longer trusts them (or Sunak specifically) to deliver on it, so they like it but still won't change their voting intentions as a result.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653
    edited December 2023
    image
    "And you say the ordinary people have ice cubes too? Amazing."

  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,590
    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    Glancing at the R&W data tonight - 71% either certain or very likely to vote with only 6% Definite non voters and 7% Probable non voters so another pollster suggesting a very hight turnout.

    Among the 94% (excluding the Definite non voters), it's 37% Labour, 23% Conservative, 11% LD, 11% DK. 9% Reform and 5% Green.

    The 2019 Conservative vote splits 55% Conservative, 15% Reform, 13% Labour and 12% DK.

    Deltapoll keeps with the current herding and a 16-point Labour lead (43-27) with the LDs on 13.

    The last four polls have all come in about the same - Labour have slipped back from the mid 40s to the low 40s while the Conservatives remain in the mid 20s.

    With barely a third of Reform voters likely to return to the Conservatives, it still looks like around 30% at best for Sunak's party.

    14% swing Conservative to Labour on the R&W headline figures.

    Today's measures to cut immigration targeted at Reform voters
    If that is the reason - it ain’t enough.

    It cuts the figure from 750,000 to 400,000 (say).

    Which to your typical reform voter is still 400,000 too many so an abject failure
    That's exactly the problem with these policies. They further alienate people on the center right, while utterly failing to address the desires of the RefUK end of the spectrum.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,748
    kle4 said:

    Chris said:

    HYUFD said:

    Three quarters of Brits now too poor to marry a foreigner

    https://twitter.com/Smyth_Chris/status/1731732325401047354

    No any Brit can marry a foreigner provided the foreigner earns over £38k a year or is in a shortage occupation
    I suppose we should be thankful that the government isn't making it illegal for us to marry foreigners at all.

    I sometimes wonder how traditional Conservatives can stomach any of this stuff.

    All this miserable crew cares about is desperately trying to salvage their own careers. They don't care what damage they do in the process. And it's doomed to failure anyway. Why can't they just go now?
    And let dangerous radical Sir Keir of Starmer take over?!
    It can't happen too soon!
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,873
    I see the BBC has once again been discussed ad nauseam on here.

    For those without the wherewithal to sign up to multiple streaming services, Freeview or Freesat at least provides something and supporting radio and specialist channels is no bad thing. The obvious step would be for the BBC to take advertising and no doubt it could charge the same rates as ITV for primetime slots. I used to quite like Westward and Ulster and Thames television and it's a pity regional programming has gone the way of notions of what makes a proper Christmas film.

    Perhaps the ultimate would be to make everything on all channels available to everyone but charge per programme perhaps based not on what the channel would like us to pay but what we are prepared to pay....
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,908
    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    Glancing at the R&W data tonight - 71% either certain or very likely to vote with only 6% Definite non voters and 7% Probable non voters so another pollster suggesting a very hight turnout.

    Among the 94% (excluding the Definite non voters), it's 37% Labour, 23% Conservative, 11% LD, 11% DK. 9% Reform and 5% Green.

    The 2019 Conservative vote splits 55% Conservative, 15% Reform, 13% Labour and 12% DK.

    Deltapoll keeps with the current herding and a 16-point Labour lead (43-27) with the LDs on 13.

    The last four polls have all come in about the same - Labour have slipped back from the mid 40s to the low 40s while the Conservatives remain in the mid 20s.

    With barely a third of Reform voters likely to return to the Conservatives, it still looks like around 30% at best for Sunak's party.

    14% swing Conservative to Labour on the R&W headline figures.

    Today's measures to cut immigration targeted at Reform voters
    If that is the reason - it ain’t enough.

    It cuts the figure from 750,000 to 400,000 (say).

    Which to your typical reform voter is still 400,000 too many so an abject failure
    ReformUK voters just want to cut and control immigration, if they wanted to kick out all the foreigners and end immigration they would vote for the BNP or the British Democrats
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,748
    edited December 2023
    HYUFD said:


    Seriously though I think the annual minimum gross income for the foreign spouse and their UK partner so the spouse gets a visa stays at £18,600.

    Jesus. Literally 40 minutes ago you wrote "No any Brit can marry a foreigner provided the foreigner earns over £38k a year or is in a shortage occupation".
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653
    Cookie said:

    Ratters said:

    New visa stuff is a bloody disaster for care sector imho.

    Have they any idea what is happening, staff-wise, in care homes?

    See:

    Mike Padgham, the chair of the Independent Care Group which runs several care homes in North Yorkshire tells us: “Well I think we are going to find more businesses fail, care homes closing.

    BBC News

    I agree it's a disaster as things stand, but should it be?

    Should these jobs not be well paid enough to attract UK residents to take them? E.g. a material step up from stacking shelves at supermarkets or other low skill jobs at or above minimum wage.

    Of course the implication is the cost of care would rise, and the state or those under care would shoulder the cost of that, but that's how things should be.

    Our migration policy shouldn't be determined just because there are business models that are reliant on an endless stream of cheap labour from overseas.
    Very well put. I was trying to find the words to articulate this and you've saved me the bother.
    Immigration is a bit of a ponzi scheme. It will be expensive to get out of it but tge longer we leave it the more expensive it will be.
    You're happy to see taxes and/or borrowing go up to cover the sharp increase in social care costs that the state necessarily has to cover for the majority (63%) who cannot afford their own?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067

    image
    "And you say the ordinary people have ice cubes too? Amazing."

    First Light Fusion's target, I think ?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,618
    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    New visa stuff is a bloody disaster for care sector imho.

    Have they any idea what is happening, staff-wise, in care homes?

    See:

    Mike Padgham, the chair of the Independent Care Group which runs several care homes in North Yorkshire tells us: “Well I think we are going to find more businesses fail, care homes closing.

    BBC News

    Well if they are reliant on foreign workers bringing their extended families over that is their problem
    Well they are reliant on foreign workers because UK workers want more money than the foreign workers are willing to work for.

    And care home wages need to be kept low as councils cannot afford to pay more for the residents they pay for while privately paid for residents can’t be charged enough to make up the shortfall.
    An enterprising council needs to come up with its own version of the Rwanda scheme so people can live out their days in the sun. Then we wouldn't need to import care workers.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,590
    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    Glancing at the R&W data tonight - 71% either certain or very likely to vote with only 6% Definite non voters and 7% Probable non voters so another pollster suggesting a very hight turnout.

    Among the 94% (excluding the Definite non voters), it's 37% Labour, 23% Conservative, 11% LD, 11% DK. 9% Reform and 5% Green.

    The 2019 Conservative vote splits 55% Conservative, 15% Reform, 13% Labour and 12% DK.

    Deltapoll keeps with the current herding and a 16-point Labour lead (43-27) with the LDs on 13.

    The last four polls have all come in about the same - Labour have slipped back from the mid 40s to the low 40s while the Conservatives remain in the mid 20s.

    With barely a third of Reform voters likely to return to the Conservatives, it still looks like around 30% at best for Sunak's party.

    14% swing Conservative to Labour on the R&W headline figures.

    Today's measures to cut immigration targeted at Reform voters
    If that is the reason - it ain’t enough.

    It cuts the figure from 750,000 to 400,000 (say).

    Which to your typical reform voter is still 400,000 too many so an abject failure
    ReformUK voters just want to cut and control immigration, if they wanted to kick out all the foreigners and end immigration they would vote for the BNP or the British Democrats
    I'm not sure that's entirely true. If you don't have a concrete idea of what the "right" level is, where do the "cuts" end? And RefUK frequently talk about having let in "too many" people from various sources - so what policies will address that view?

    And whatever most/many RefUK supporters want from a policy perspective, I am sure they don't see themselves as being as extreme as the BNP.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,129
    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    DavidL said:

    malcolmg said:

    148grss said:

    Pagan2 said:

    148grss said:

    Pagan2 said:

    algarkirk said:

    viewcode said:

    All the complaints about the BBC may or may not be justified. I'll just say what I've always said on the matter


    • We need something to unite us as a nation
    • Given the change in the way we watch, a drop in its viewing figures is inevitable
    • If we were still forced to watch television in the way we used to - one set, three/four/five channels - we would think it was a golden age on the BBC
    • PB is dependent on the BBC's political coverage, and we would really miss programmes like Laura Kuenssberg: State of Chaos
    • Every other non-UK alternative (Netflix, CNN, YouTube) cannot replace it because of its parochial nature
    So although I am comfortable with discussions of alternate funding models and its scope, I would regret the departure of the BBC. In fact, given their recent gutting of its news programmes and journalist staff, its news/current affairs/documentaries funding should be expanded not contracted.

    Having now definitively settled the matter, you can now speak of something else. You're welcome. :)

    See also
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/genres/factual/politics
    The direction of travel of the BBC and its fate is not only a cause and consequence of something but also a symptom.

    Viewcode says we need something to unite us as a nation. Maybe. But it does not follow that this will actually occur.

    The BBC was a candidate for this. PB alone indicates this is no more. Other candidates abound or once did; each person can make their own commentary:

    The Crown/Crown in Parliament
    Christian culture/church
    The NHS
    Effortless superiority of being top dog
    The good chaps theory of government
    Empire
    The anglophone world
    Common law and legal system
    An incorruptible civil order
    'No sex please we're British'
    Our traditions of policing by consent
    A locally spread out aristocracy with obligations as well as rights
    Stiff upper lip/reserve
    John Stuart Mill 'On Liberty'
    The Times/Oxford/Cambridge
    'Fair play' or 'It's not cricket'
    The threat from Vikings/Normans/The French/The Germans/The Russians/Johnny Foreigner.

    FWIW I struggle to identify now what would hold us together as a nation, unless it is a literati writing endless articles Why Oh Why on the loss of one or more of the above. Because of reasons.
    What should hold us together is a tolerance of difference as long as you comply to the british values which i would list as believing we are all equally human and worthy of respect regardless of colour, creed ,sexuality or biological sex. A belief that the same law should apply to all and last but not least in my view not trying to make others conform to our views unless they violate the previous
    Lol - when have those ever been universal British values?
    I didn't claim they were universal, I stated what I believed are british values and I do believe most here hold pretty much those views. The fact there are exceptions means nothing. You won't find universal values anywhere....but I do think probably 80% of people would nod along to those I stated
    What about Britishness holds those values? Like - even modern Britain does not have a society or even a social norm to uphold those values.

    Britishness - in my mind - has as core values a deference to power (whether that be working class crab bucket mentality, or elitist arrogance), a weird exceptionalism (typically based in the Empire, but also as a kind of semi-mythic figure of enlightenment and giver of natural justice to the world) as well as a general view that "things are shit, they deserve to be shit", and "it was shit when I was young and it didn't do me any harm".
    Stick your Britishness up yer jacksie
    LOL. Malcolm, we'd miss you.
    I rarely agree with Malcolm however on this he is right....I don't recognise any of this crap 148grss came out with in anyone I have ever known
    You haven't come across elite arrogance or weird exceptionalism or crab bucket mentality in anyone you have ever known? Really? That's great news if true.
    I don't think I have. Well not the first two, anyway. I'm not sure what crab bucket mentality is.
    I had to google it tbf. But c'mon, no elite arrogance in anybody you've ever met? I can only think you've got a special aura that stops any of that nonsense when you're around. Like they say Nelson Mandela had.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    New visa stuff is a bloody disaster for care sector imho.

    Have they any idea what is happening, staff-wise, in care homes?

    See:

    Mike Padgham, the chair of the Independent Care Group which runs several care homes in North Yorkshire tells us: “Well I think we are going to find more businesses fail, care homes closing.

    BBC News

    Well if they are reliant on foreign workers bringing their extended families over that is their problem
    Well they are reliant on foreign workers because UK workers want more money than the foreign workers are willing to work for.

    And care home wages need to be kept low as councils cannot afford to pay more for the residents they pay for while privately paid for residents can’t be charged enough to make up the shortfall.
    An enterprising council needs to come up with its own version of the Rwanda scheme so people can live out their days in the sun. Then we wouldn't need to import care workers.
    The 'enterprising' councils have all gone bust following dodgy investment decisions.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,079

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    New visa stuff is a bloody disaster for care sector imho.

    Have they any idea what is happening, staff-wise, in care homes?

    See:

    Mike Padgham, the chair of the Independent Care Group which runs several care homes in North Yorkshire tells us: “Well I think we are going to find more businesses fail, care homes closing.

    BBC News

    Well if they are reliant on foreign workers bringing their extended families over that is their problem
    Well they are reliant on foreign workers because UK workers want more money than the foreign workers are willing to work for.

    And care home wages need to be kept low as councils cannot afford to pay more for the residents they pay for while privately paid for residents can’t be charged enough to make up the shortfall.
    An enterprising council needs to come up with its own version of the Rwanda scheme so people can live out their days in the sun. Then we wouldn't need to import care workers.
    The 'enterprising' councils have all gone bust following dodgy investment decisions.
    The next round of ones to go bust won't even have done dodgy stuff, that's how we'll know how screwed things are.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,307
    Nigelb said:

    Did we already do this ?
    If true, it ought to be possible to find out those implicated.

    People who made giant gambles against Israel on the markets in Tel Aviv and Wall Street days before Hamas’ attack made billions.

    Somebody seems to have known about the plan in advance

    https://twitter.com/haaretzcom/status/1731723790680530996

    They will - in my experience - have done their trading through Lebanese entities and banks. And it is bloody difficult to get that information. Though not impossible.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,748
    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    Three quarters of Brits now too poor to marry a foreigner

    https://twitter.com/Smyth_Chris/status/1731732325401047354

    No any Brit can marry a foreigner provided the foreigner earns over £38k a year or is in a shortage occupation
    So someone like my father - a doctor - marrying a foreign woman who chooses to stay at home to bring up children would now be unable to do so. If such a rule had been in place, he would have left England. So rather than gain a skilled migrant Britain would have lost one and 2 skilled children who have also contributed a load of taxes to this country.

    Brilliant. Just brilliant.

    I thought you lot were in favour of traditional stable families.

    Is there anyone left in the Tory party able to think through the consequences of what they announce? Anyone at all?
    Well would have freed up some housing and demand for public services.

    Seriously though I think the annual minimum gross income for the foreign spouse and their UK partner so the spouse gets a visa stays at £18,600.
    As usual, you've come up with a pile of ill-informed crap.

    From the BBC:
    A UK citizen who marries a non-UK citizen will not be able to being their new spouse to the UK to live with them unless the UK citizen is earning £38,700.
    “We will ensure people only bring dependants whom they can support financially, by raising the minimum income for family visas to the same threshold as the minimum salary threshold for Skilled Workers, £38,700,” he said.


    Google "family visa" if you don't understand what it is.
  • HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    New visa stuff is a bloody disaster for care sector imho.

    Have they any idea what is happening, staff-wise, in care homes?

    See:

    Mike Padgham, the chair of the Independent Care Group which runs several care homes in North Yorkshire tells us: “Well I think we are going to find more businesses fail, care homes closing.

    BBC News

    Well if they are reliant on foreign workers bringing their extended families over that is their problem
    Well they are reliant on foreign workers because UK workers want more money than the foreign workers are willing to work for.

    And care home wages need to be kept low as councils cannot afford to pay more for the residents they pay for while privately paid for residents can’t be charged enough to make up the shortfall.

    And UK unemployed will lose all their benefits after 6 months if they do not look for and take any paid job offered to them regardless of salary as Hunt announced
    You've cracked it. Forced labour in care homes will work a treat. Make those sofa-surfing scroungers wipe old people's arses for a living.
    Oh, well! [Sunil puts feet up on coffee table]
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,908
    mwadams said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    Glancing at the R&W data tonight - 71% either certain or very likely to vote with only 6% Definite non voters and 7% Probable non voters so another pollster suggesting a very hight turnout.

    Among the 94% (excluding the Definite non voters), it's 37% Labour, 23% Conservative, 11% LD, 11% DK. 9% Reform and 5% Green.

    The 2019 Conservative vote splits 55% Conservative, 15% Reform, 13% Labour and 12% DK.

    Deltapoll keeps with the current herding and a 16-point Labour lead (43-27) with the LDs on 13.

    The last four polls have all come in about the same - Labour have slipped back from the mid 40s to the low 40s while the Conservatives remain in the mid 20s.

    With barely a third of Reform voters likely to return to the Conservatives, it still looks like around 30% at best for Sunak's party.

    14% swing Conservative to Labour on the R&W headline figures.

    Today's measures to cut immigration targeted at Reform voters
    If that is the reason - it ain’t enough.

    It cuts the figure from 750,000 to 400,000 (say).

    Which to your typical reform voter is still 400,000 too many so an abject failure
    That's exactly the problem with these policies. They further alienate people on the center right, while utterly failing to address the desires of the RefUK end of the spectrum.
    The vast majority of centre right voters want to reduce immigration like ReformUK voters, even many working class Labour voters want to cut immigration
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    Nigelb said:

    Did we already do this ?
    If true, it ought to be possible to find out those implicated.

    People who made giant gambles against Israel on the markets in Tel Aviv and Wall Street days before Hamas’ attack made billions.

    Somebody seems to have known about the plan in advance

    https://twitter.com/haaretzcom/status/1731723790680530996

    The evidence seems pretty strong.

    https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4652027
    Recent scholarship shows that informed traders increasingly disguise trades in economically linked securities such as exchange-traded funds (ETFs). Linking that work to longstanding literature on financial markets’ reactions to military conflict, we document a significant spike in short selling in the principal Israeli-company ETF days before the October 7 Hamas attack. The short selling that day far exceeded the short selling that occurred during numerous other periods of crisis, including the recession following the financial crisis, the 2014 Israel-Gaza war, and the COVID-19 pandemic. Similarly, we identify increases in short selling before the attack in dozens of Israeli companies traded in Tel Aviv....
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,908
    Chris said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    Three quarters of Brits now too poor to marry a foreigner

    https://twitter.com/Smyth_Chris/status/1731732325401047354

    No any Brit can marry a foreigner provided the foreigner earns over £38k a year or is in a shortage occupation
    So someone like my father - a doctor - marrying a foreign woman who chooses to stay at home to bring up children would now be unable to do so. If such a rule had been in place, he would have left England. So rather than gain a skilled migrant Britain would have lost one and 2 skilled children who have also contributed a load of taxes to this country.

    Brilliant. Just brilliant.

    I thought you lot were in favour of traditional stable families.

    Is there anyone left in the Tory party able to think through the consequences of what they announce? Anyone at all?
    Well would have freed up some housing and demand for public services.

    Seriously though I think the annual minimum gross income for the foreign spouse and their UK partner so the spouse gets a visa stays at £18,600.
    As usual, you've come up with a pile of ill-informed crap.

    From the BBC:
    A UK citizen who marries a non-UK citizen will not be able to being their new spouse to the UK to live with them unless the UK citizen is earning £38,700.
    “We will ensure people only bring dependants whom they can support financially, by raising the minimum income for family visas to the same threshold as the minimum salary threshold for Skilled Workers, £38,700,” he said.


    Google "family visa" if you don't understand what it is.
    Well I was wrong on that then, should cut immigration even further as well then or if they really love them the UK citizen can move to the non UK citizen's nation if they earn under £38k
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    Chris said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    Three quarters of Brits now too poor to marry a foreigner

    https://twitter.com/Smyth_Chris/status/1731732325401047354

    No any Brit can marry a foreigner provided the foreigner earns over £38k a year or is in a shortage occupation
    So someone like my father - a doctor - marrying a foreign woman who chooses to stay at home to bring up children would now be unable to do so. If such a rule had been in place, he would have left England. So rather than gain a skilled migrant Britain would have lost one and 2 skilled children who have also contributed a load of taxes to this country.

    Brilliant. Just brilliant.

    I thought you lot were in favour of traditional stable families.

    Is there anyone left in the Tory party able to think through the consequences of what they announce? Anyone at all?
    Well would have freed up some housing and demand for public services.

    Seriously though I think the annual minimum gross income for the foreign spouse and their UK partner so the spouse gets a visa stays at £18,600.
    As usual, you've come up with a pile of ill-informed crap.

    From the BBC:
    A UK citizen who marries a non-UK citizen will not be able to being their new spouse to the UK to live with them unless the UK citizen is earning £38,700.
    “We will ensure people only bring dependants whom they can support financially, by raising the minimum income for family visas to the same threshold as the minimum salary threshold for Skilled Workers, £38,700,” he said.


    Google "family visa" if you don't understand what it is.
    Absolutely appalling . Punishing UK citizens for falling in love with a non Brit .
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368
    edited December 2023
    Nigelb said:

    image
    "And you say the ordinary people have ice cubes too? Amazing."

    First Light Fusion's target, I think ?
    Yep which meant trying to come up with a realistic quip has taken some time - that “ice cube” is the target designed to focus the energy to reach critical temperatures and densities

    This focusses things so that come the next election you will get the votes of just the true believers.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368
    kle4 said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    New visa stuff is a bloody disaster for care sector imho.

    Have they any idea what is happening, staff-wise, in care homes?

    See:

    Mike Padgham, the chair of the Independent Care Group which runs several care homes in North Yorkshire tells us: “Well I think we are going to find more businesses fail, care homes closing.

    BBC News

    Well if they are reliant on foreign workers bringing their extended families over that is their problem
    Well they are reliant on foreign workers because UK workers want more money than the foreign workers are willing to work for.

    And care home wages need to be kept low as councils cannot afford to pay more for the residents they pay for while privately paid for residents can’t be charged enough to make up the shortfall.
    An enterprising council needs to come up with its own version of the Rwanda scheme so people can live out their days in the sun. Then we wouldn't need to import care workers.
    The 'enterprising' councils have all gone bust following dodgy investment decisions.
    The next round of ones to go bust won't even have done dodgy stuff, that's how we'll know how screwed things are.
    The next ones are I suspect Kent and Medway - although I suspect you could take a map of England throw a dart and chances are you would be correct
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    Glancing at the R&W data tonight - 71% either certain or very likely to vote with only 6% Definite non voters and 7% Probable non voters so another pollster suggesting a very hight turnout.

    Among the 94% (excluding the Definite non voters), it's 37% Labour, 23% Conservative, 11% LD, 11% DK. 9% Reform and 5% Green.

    The 2019 Conservative vote splits 55% Conservative, 15% Reform, 13% Labour and 12% DK.

    Deltapoll keeps with the current herding and a 16-point Labour lead (43-27) with the LDs on 13.

    The last four polls have all come in about the same - Labour have slipped back from the mid 40s to the low 40s while the Conservatives remain in the mid 20s.

    With barely a third of Reform voters likely to return to the Conservatives, it still looks like around 30% at best for Sunak's party.

    14% swing Conservative to Labour on the R&W headline figures.

    Today's measures to cut immigration targeted at Reform voters
    The client media are loving it. Suella, not so much. And I expect Suella is more in tune with Reform voters than you or me.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,748
    HYUFD said:

    Chris said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    Three quarters of Brits now too poor to marry a foreigner

    https://twitter.com/Smyth_Chris/status/1731732325401047354

    No any Brit can marry a foreigner provided the foreigner earns over £38k a year or is in a shortage occupation
    So someone like my father - a doctor - marrying a foreign woman who chooses to stay at home to bring up children would now be unable to do so. If such a rule had been in place, he would have left England. So rather than gain a skilled migrant Britain would have lost one and 2 skilled children who have also contributed a load of taxes to this country.

    Brilliant. Just brilliant.

    I thought you lot were in favour of traditional stable families.

    Is there anyone left in the Tory party able to think through the consequences of what they announce? Anyone at all?
    Well would have freed up some housing and demand for public services.

    Seriously though I think the annual minimum gross income for the foreign spouse and their UK partner so the spouse gets a visa stays at £18,600.
    As usual, you've come up with a pile of ill-informed crap.

    From the BBC:
    A UK citizen who marries a non-UK citizen will not be able to being their new spouse to the UK to live with them unless the UK citizen is earning £38,700.
    “We will ensure people only bring dependants whom they can support financially, by raising the minimum income for family visas to the same threshold as the minimum salary threshold for Skilled Workers, £38,700,” he said.


    Google "family visa" if you don't understand what it is.
    Well I was wrong on that then, should cut immigration even further as well then or if they really love them the UK citizen can move to the non UK citizen's nation if they earn under £38k
    Why don't you just fuck off?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368
    HYUFD said:

    mwadams said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    Glancing at the R&W data tonight - 71% either certain or very likely to vote with only 6% Definite non voters and 7% Probable non voters so another pollster suggesting a very hight turnout.

    Among the 94% (excluding the Definite non voters), it's 37% Labour, 23% Conservative, 11% LD, 11% DK. 9% Reform and 5% Green.

    The 2019 Conservative vote splits 55% Conservative, 15% Reform, 13% Labour and 12% DK.

    Deltapoll keeps with the current herding and a 16-point Labour lead (43-27) with the LDs on 13.

    The last four polls have all come in about the same - Labour have slipped back from the mid 40s to the low 40s while the Conservatives remain in the mid 20s.

    With barely a third of Reform voters likely to return to the Conservatives, it still looks like around 30% at best for Sunak's party.

    14% swing Conservative to Labour on the R&W headline figures.

    Today's measures to cut immigration targeted at Reform voters
    If that is the reason - it ain’t enough.

    It cuts the figure from 750,000 to 400,000 (say).

    Which to your typical reform voter is still 400,000 too many so an abject failure
    That's exactly the problem with these policies. They further alienate people on the center right, while utterly failing to address the desires of the RefUK end of the spectrum.
    The vast majority of centre right voters want to reduce immigration like ReformUK voters, even many working class Labour voters want to cut immigration
    You seem to have confused Centre with far / facist
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    edited December 2023
    eek said:

    Nigelb said:

    image
    "And you say the ordinary people have ice cubes too? Amazing."

    First Light Fusion's target, I think ?
    Yep which meant trying to come up with a realistic quip has taken some time - that “ice cube” is the target designed to focus the energy to reach critical temperatures and densities

    This focusses things so that come the next election you will get the votes of just the true believers.
    I thought you might have done something with their fusion technique being inspired by a shrimp...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,079

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    Glancing at the R&W data tonight - 71% either certain or very likely to vote with only 6% Definite non voters and 7% Probable non voters so another pollster suggesting a very hight turnout.

    Among the 94% (excluding the Definite non voters), it's 37% Labour, 23% Conservative, 11% LD, 11% DK. 9% Reform and 5% Green.

    The 2019 Conservative vote splits 55% Conservative, 15% Reform, 13% Labour and 12% DK.

    Deltapoll keeps with the current herding and a 16-point Labour lead (43-27) with the LDs on 13.

    The last four polls have all come in about the same - Labour have slipped back from the mid 40s to the low 40s while the Conservatives remain in the mid 20s.

    With barely a third of Reform voters likely to return to the Conservatives, it still looks like around 30% at best for Sunak's party.

    14% swing Conservative to Labour on the R&W headline figures.

    Today's measures to cut immigration targeted at Reform voters
    The client media are loving it. Suella, not so much. And I expect Suella is more in tune with Reform voters than you or me.
    What's her gripe about it?
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,873
    The immigration debate in truth hasn't moved much in the past 60 years.

    It comes down to who does the jobs none of us wants to do - whether it's working in care homes or cleaning offices or sweeping the streets or a myriad of other low-paid low-skill "menial" tasks each of which contributes in its way to making our communities and societies more tolerable?

    That's why first the Windush Generation and subsequently others were brought here - to do the jobs we either can't or won't do, many of which won't be replaced by AI. The paradox then becomes we want the people to do the jobs but we don't want them to come here to live (it seems).

    The demographics are also pushing for this - as we age, the requirement for care (and all that goes with it) increases. In addition, as we've got more prosperous, we can afford nice things and go to nice places where we need staff to serve our nice food and clean our nice hotel rooms etc, etc.

    The diminishing replacement pool of workers can pick and choose - they don't have to or need to take the menial tasks - any number of other opportunities exist.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,984
    edited December 2023
    Just a thought, looking at recent polls. Could the increase in Reform have been partly at the expense of Labour? Labour have gone down a few points and Ref have increased by a similar amount.

    Not necessarily because they are put off by Starmer or his real or perceived position on immigration, but because they have been pissed off by the Tories for over a year but over different things. With immigration being the latest salient issue, the anti-Tory option of choice is Reform. If the economy or NHS becomes top of the list again they return to Labour.

    It would certainly explain the recent odd polling maths that’s consistently shown Labour declines with flat Tories. It would undermine the idea of LLG vs RefCon voting blocs of course. If it means Ref is essentially a protest vote and a way of expressing anger at a particular government policy then those votes might not be shifting over to the Tories later, but back to Labour.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    HYUFD said:

    Chris said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    Three quarters of Brits now too poor to marry a foreigner

    https://twitter.com/Smyth_Chris/status/1731732325401047354

    No any Brit can marry a foreigner provided the foreigner earns over £38k a year or is in a shortage occupation
    So someone like my father - a doctor - marrying a foreign woman who chooses to stay at home to bring up children would now be unable to do so. If such a rule had been in place, he would have left England. So rather than gain a skilled migrant Britain would have lost one and 2 skilled children who have also contributed a load of taxes to this country.

    Brilliant. Just brilliant.

    I thought you lot were in favour of traditional stable families.

    Is there anyone left in the Tory party able to think through the consequences of what they announce? Anyone at all?
    Well would have freed up some housing and demand for public services.

    Seriously though I think the annual minimum gross income for the foreign spouse and their UK partner so the spouse gets a visa stays at £18,600.
    As usual, you've come up with a pile of ill-informed crap.

    From the BBC:
    A UK citizen who marries a non-UK citizen will not be able to being their new spouse to the UK to live with them unless the UK citizen is earning £38,700.
    “We will ensure people only bring dependants whom they can support financially, by raising the minimum income for family visas to the same threshold as the minimum salary threshold for Skilled Workers, £38,700,” he said.


    Google "family visa" if you don't understand what it is.
    Well I was wrong on that then, should cut immigration even further as well then or if they really love them the UK citizen can move to the non UK citizen's nation if they earn under £38k
    With any luck, your lot, and those attitudes, will soon be decisively rejected at the ballot box.
  • Test cricket will never die 🏏
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,870
    edited December 2023
    nico679 said:

    Chris said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    Three quarters of Brits now too poor to marry a foreigner

    https://twitter.com/Smyth_Chris/status/1731732325401047354

    No any Brit can marry a foreigner provided the foreigner earns over £38k a year or is in a shortage occupation
    So someone like my father - a doctor - marrying a foreign woman who chooses to stay at home to bring up children would now be unable to do so. If such a rule had been in place, he would have left England. So rather than gain a skilled migrant Britain would have lost one and 2 skilled children who have also contributed a load of taxes to this country.

    Brilliant. Just brilliant.

    I thought you lot were in favour of traditional stable families.

    Is there anyone left in the Tory party able to think through the consequences of what they announce? Anyone at all?
    Well would have freed up some housing and demand for public services.

    Seriously though I think the annual minimum gross income for the foreign spouse and their UK partner so the spouse gets a visa stays at £18,600.
    As usual, you've come up with a pile of ill-informed crap.

    From the BBC:
    A UK citizen who marries a non-UK citizen will not be able to being their new spouse to the UK to live with them unless the UK citizen is earning £38,700.
    “We will ensure people only bring dependants whom they can support financially, by raising the minimum income for family visas to the same threshold as the minimum salary threshold for Skilled Workers, £38,700,” he said.


    Google "family visa" if you don't understand what it is.
    Absolutely appalling . Punishing UK citizens for falling in love with a non Brit .
    Absolutely appalling its not punishing anyone simple fact is people cost the state money in nhs costs, policing costs , housing costs etc.

    If you set the bar low and people are coming over costing more in services and infrastructre like housing than the primary is paying in tax then do you expect all those things to be less strained or more strained?

    People like you are always complaining services are underfunded and I agree.....adding to the burden by allowing people to come which compared to tax paid by them increases the costs of services and infrastructure than there primary pays in tax merely adds to the strain. You can't have it both ways sorry
  • Test cricket will never die 🏏

    Zzzzzzzzzz...
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,307
    Anyway, off topic - any recommendations for the best in-shower speaker, please.

    Ta muchly.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,984
    stodge said:

    The immigration debate in truth hasn't moved much in the past 60 years.

    It comes down to who does the jobs none of us wants to do - whether it's working in care homes or cleaning offices or sweeping the streets or a myriad of other low-paid low-skill "menial" tasks each of which contributes in its way to making our communities and societies more tolerable?

    That's why first the Windush Generation and subsequently others were brought here - to do the jobs we either can't or won't do, many of which won't be replaced by AI. The paradox then becomes we want the people to do the jobs but we don't want them to come here to live (it seems).

    The demographics are also pushing for this - as we age, the requirement for care (and all that goes with it) increases. In addition, as we've got more prosperous, we can afford nice things and go to nice places where we need staff to serve our nice food and clean our nice hotel rooms etc, etc.

    The diminishing replacement pool of workers can pick and choose - they don't have to or need to take the menial tasks - any number of other opportunities exist.

    A more protectionist but socially dodgy policy would be the opposite of what’s been announced. Have a maximum salary for migrants. Let people come and do the low skill jobs while protecting higher paid jobs.

    It’s essentially what post war Germany did with gastarbeiter. The trouble is it creates in effect a nationality caste system with a poverty-line migrant underclass, as practised in its most extreme form in the Gulf states. I’m very glad that’s not how we do immigration policy, but I’m surprised nobody in government is pushing it.
  • Here we go. Employers paying peanuts is a terrible thing, unless the peanut purveyor is the government.

    The Home Office said: “Those coming on the health and care visa route will be exempted from the increase to the salary threshold for Skilled Worker visas, so we can continue to bring the healthcare workers that our care sector and NHS need, and we will exempt those on national pay scales, for example teachers.”

    https://schoolsweek.co.uk/overseas-teachers-exempt-from-new-visa-crackdown/

    Inevitable in terms of public services, but pretty shoddy behaviour.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368
    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway, off topic - any recommendations for the best in-shower speaker, please.

    Ta muchly.

    Listening to what? The radio or something coming from your phone?

    Also do you need to do anything like skip tracks or are you happy to listen to whatever is coming through the speaker until you’ve finished the shower?

    Finally how do you plan to charge it?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,984
    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway, off topic - any recommendations for the best in-shower speaker, please.

    Ta muchly.

    John Bercow? “Orderrrr”.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    Glancing at the R&W data tonight - 71% either certain or very likely to vote with only 6% Definite non voters and 7% Probable non voters so another pollster suggesting a very hight turnout.

    Among the 94% (excluding the Definite non voters), it's 37% Labour, 23% Conservative, 11% LD, 11% DK. 9% Reform and 5% Green.

    The 2019 Conservative vote splits 55% Conservative, 15% Reform, 13% Labour and 12% DK.

    Deltapoll keeps with the current herding and a 16-point Labour lead (43-27) with the LDs on 13.

    The last four polls have all come in about the same - Labour have slipped back from the mid 40s to the low 40s while the Conservatives remain in the mid 20s.

    With barely a third of Reform voters likely to return to the Conservatives, it still looks like around 30% at best for Sunak's party.

    14% swing Conservative to Labour on the R&W headline figures.

    Today's measures to cut immigration targeted at Reform voters
    The client media are loving it. Suella, not so much. And I expect Suella is more in tune with Reform voters than you or me.
    What's her gripe about it?
    I only read the headline. Not enough gratuitous violence exacted on foreigners perhaps.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,908

    Here we go. Employers paying peanuts is a terrible thing, unless the peanut purveyor is the government.

    The Home Office said: “Those coming on the health and care visa route will be exempted from the increase to the salary threshold for Skilled Worker visas, so we can continue to bring the healthcare workers that our care sector and NHS need, and we will exempt those on national pay scales, for example teachers.”

    https://schoolsweek.co.uk/overseas-teachers-exempt-from-new-visa-crackdown/

    Inevitable in terms of public services, but pretty shoddy behaviour.

    No, the minimum wage applies to public and private sector workers.

    Plus 'In 2020, the median full-time salary for someone working in the private sector in the UK was £30,973, while those in the public sector earned a median wage of £32,743'
    https://uk.indeed.com/career-advice/pay-salary/average-uk-salary#:~:text=Public or private sector&text=In 2020, the median full,median wage of £32,743.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    .
    TimS said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway, off topic - any recommendations for the best in-shower speaker, please.

    Ta muchly.

    John Bercow? “Orderrrr”.
    I thought it might be a racy sideline for the after dinner speakers.
    Though the idea of Boris in the shower... shudders.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,307
    eek said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway, off topic - any recommendations for the best in-shower speaker, please.

    Ta muchly.

    Listening to what? The radio or something coming from your phone?

    Also do you need to do anything like skip tracks or are you happy to listen to whatever is coming through the speaker until you’ve finished the shower?

    Finally how do you plan to charge it?
    Music

    From phone. Skipping tracks not essential.

    No idea. In the normal way.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,908
    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    mwadams said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    Glancing at the R&W data tonight - 71% either certain or very likely to vote with only 6% Definite non voters and 7% Probable non voters so another pollster suggesting a very hight turnout.

    Among the 94% (excluding the Definite non voters), it's 37% Labour, 23% Conservative, 11% LD, 11% DK. 9% Reform and 5% Green.

    The 2019 Conservative vote splits 55% Conservative, 15% Reform, 13% Labour and 12% DK.

    Deltapoll keeps with the current herding and a 16-point Labour lead (43-27) with the LDs on 13.

    The last four polls have all come in about the same - Labour have slipped back from the mid 40s to the low 40s while the Conservatives remain in the mid 20s.

    With barely a third of Reform voters likely to return to the Conservatives, it still looks like around 30% at best for Sunak's party.

    14% swing Conservative to Labour on the R&W headline figures.

    Today's measures to cut immigration targeted at Reform voters
    If that is the reason - it ain’t enough.

    It cuts the figure from 750,000 to 400,000 (say).

    Which to your typical reform voter is still 400,000 too many so an abject failure
    That's exactly the problem with these policies. They further alienate people on the center right, while utterly failing to address the desires of the RefUK end of the spectrum.
    The vast majority of centre right voters want to reduce immigration like ReformUK voters, even many working class Labour voters want to cut immigration
    You seem to have confused Centre with far / facist
    Calling anyone who wants to reduce immigration 'Fascist' is why Leave won the referendum in 2016
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,307
    TimS said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway, off topic - any recommendations for the best in-shower speaker, please.

    Ta muchly.

    John Bercow? “Orderrrr”.
    What an absolutely hideous idea.
  • Here we go. Employers paying peanuts is a terrible thing, unless the peanut purveyor is the government.

    The Home Office said: “Those coming on the health and care visa route will be exempted from the increase to the salary threshold for Skilled Worker visas, so we can continue to bring the healthcare workers that our care sector and NHS need, and we will exempt those on national pay scales, for example teachers.”

    https://schoolsweek.co.uk/overseas-teachers-exempt-from-new-visa-crackdown/

    Inevitable in terms of public services, but pretty shoddy behaviour.

    That is fantastic news for care sector.

    Disaster was looming.

    But there needs to be a plan to finance care so that it does not totally stand or fall on migrant workers.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,748
    Pagan2 said:

    nico679 said:

    Chris said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    Three quarters of Brits now too poor to marry a foreigner

    https://twitter.com/Smyth_Chris/status/1731732325401047354

    No any Brit can marry a foreigner provided the foreigner earns over £38k a year or is in a shortage occupation
    So someone like my father - a doctor - marrying a foreign woman who chooses to stay at home to bring up children would now be unable to do so. If such a rule had been in place, he would have left England. So rather than gain a skilled migrant Britain would have lost one and 2 skilled children who have also contributed a load of taxes to this country.

    Brilliant. Just brilliant.

    I thought you lot were in favour of traditional stable families.

    Is there anyone left in the Tory party able to think through the consequences of what they announce? Anyone at all?
    Well would have freed up some housing and demand for public services.

    Seriously though I think the annual minimum gross income for the foreign spouse and their UK partner so the spouse gets a visa stays at £18,600.
    As usual, you've come up with a pile of ill-informed crap.

    From the BBC:
    A UK citizen who marries a non-UK citizen will not be able to being their new spouse to the UK to live with them unless the UK citizen is earning £38,700.
    “We will ensure people only bring dependants whom they can support financially, by raising the minimum income for family visas to the same threshold as the minimum salary threshold for Skilled Workers, £38,700,” he said.


    Google "family visa" if you don't understand what it is.
    Absolutely appalling . Punishing UK citizens for falling in love with a non Brit .
    Absolutely appalling its not punishing anyone simple fact is people cost the state money in nhs costs, policing costs , housing costs etc.

    If you set the bar low and people are coming over costing more in services and infrastructre like housing than the primary is paying in tax then do you expect all those things to be less strained or more strained?

    People like you are always complaining services are underfunded and I agree.....adding to the burden by allowing people to come which compared to tax paid by them increases the costs of services and infrastructure than there primary pays in tax merely adds to the strain. You can't have it both ways sorry
    Perhaps it would be a good idea to make it illegal for couples earning less that £38,000 to have children?

    Why should the poor be allowed to being people into the world "costing more in services and infrastructure"?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368
    Cyclefree said:

    eek said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway, off topic - any recommendations for the best in-shower speaker, please.

    Ta muchly.

    Listening to what? The radio or something coming from your phone?

    Also do you need to do anything like skip tracks or are you happy to listen to whatever is coming through the speaker until you’ve finished the shower?

    Finally how do you plan to charge it?
    Music

    From phone. Skipping tracks not essential.

    No idea. In the normal way.
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bluetooth-Portable-Speakers-Wireless-Waterproof/dp/B08TBXB2TL/
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    Pagan2 said:

    nico679 said:

    Chris said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    Three quarters of Brits now too poor to marry a foreigner

    https://twitter.com/Smyth_Chris/status/1731732325401047354

    No any Brit can marry a foreigner provided the foreigner earns over £38k a year or is in a shortage occupation
    So someone like my father - a doctor - marrying a foreign woman who chooses to stay at home to bring up children would now be unable to do so. If such a rule had been in place, he would have left England. So rather than gain a skilled migrant Britain would have lost one and 2 skilled children who have also contributed a load of taxes to this country.

    Brilliant. Just brilliant.

    I thought you lot were in favour of traditional stable families.

    Is there anyone left in the Tory party able to think through the consequences of what they announce? Anyone at all?
    Well would have freed up some housing and demand for public services.

    Seriously though I think the annual minimum gross income for the foreign spouse and their UK partner so the spouse gets a visa stays at £18,600.
    As usual, you've come up with a pile of ill-informed crap.

    From the BBC:
    A UK citizen who marries a non-UK citizen will not be able to being their new spouse to the UK to live with them unless the UK citizen is earning £38,700.
    “We will ensure people only bring dependants whom they can support financially, by raising the minimum income for family visas to the same threshold as the minimum salary threshold for Skilled Workers, £38,700,” he said.


    Google "family visa" if you don't understand what it is.
    Absolutely appalling . Punishing UK citizens for falling in love with a non Brit .
    Absolutely appalling its not punishing anyone simple fact is people cost the state money in nhs costs, policing costs , housing costs etc.

    If you set the bar low and people are coming over costing more in services and infrastructre like housing than the primary is paying in tax then do you expect all those things to be less strained or more strained?

    People like you are always complaining services are underfunded and I agree.....adding to the burden by allowing people to come which compared to tax paid by them increases the costs of services and infrastructure than there primary pays in tax merely adds to the strain. You can't have it both ways sorry
    The proposal is punishing UK citizens who commit the alleged crime of falling in love with a non-Brit . We don’t choose who to fall in love with. And why aren’t the dependents earnings allowed to be added to the total .

    It’s yet more cruelty emanating from the cesspit Home Office .
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,079
    This attempt at a twitter game thing feels almost like an attempt to subtly get people's personal info on age and birth for nefarious purposes.

    The PM, President, and MP I was born under.

    https://nitter.net/Rob_n3wmalden/status/1731408231036080564#m
  • Pagan2 said:

    nico679 said:

    Chris said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    Three quarters of Brits now too poor to marry a foreigner

    https://twitter.com/Smyth_Chris/status/1731732325401047354

    No any Brit can marry a foreigner provided the foreigner earns over £38k a year or is in a shortage occupation
    So someone like my father - a doctor - marrying a foreign woman who chooses to stay at home to bring up children would now be unable to do so. If such a rule had been in place, he would have left England. So rather than gain a skilled migrant Britain would have lost one and 2 skilled children who have also contributed a load of taxes to this country.

    Brilliant. Just brilliant.

    I thought you lot were in favour of traditional stable families.

    Is there anyone left in the Tory party able to think through the consequences of what they announce? Anyone at all?
    Well would have freed up some housing and demand for public services.

    Seriously though I think the annual minimum gross income for the foreign spouse and their UK partner so the spouse gets a visa stays at £18,600.
    As usual, you've come up with a pile of ill-informed crap.

    From the BBC:
    A UK citizen who marries a non-UK citizen will not be able to being their new spouse to the UK to live with them unless the UK citizen is earning £38,700.
    “We will ensure people only bring dependants whom they can support financially, by raising the minimum income for family visas to the same threshold as the minimum salary threshold for Skilled Workers, £38,700,” he said.


    Google "family visa" if you don't understand what it is.
    Absolutely appalling . Punishing UK citizens for falling in love with a non Brit .
    Absolutely appalling its not punishing anyone simple fact is people cost the state money in nhs costs, policing costs , housing costs etc.

    If you set the bar low and people are coming over costing more in services and infrastructre like housing than the primary is paying in tax then do you expect all those things to be less strained or more strained?

    People like you are always complaining services are underfunded and I agree.....adding to the burden by allowing people to come which compared to tax paid by them increases the costs of services and infrastructure than there primary pays in tax merely adds to the strain. You can't have it both ways sorry

    Why is it costing the state anything if a British citizen earning £30,000 a year marries someone with the capacity to earn the same amount or more?

  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,870
    Chris said:

    Pagan2 said:

    nico679 said:

    Chris said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    Three quarters of Brits now too poor to marry a foreigner

    https://twitter.com/Smyth_Chris/status/1731732325401047354

    No any Brit can marry a foreigner provided the foreigner earns over £38k a year or is in a shortage occupation
    So someone like my father - a doctor - marrying a foreign woman who chooses to stay at home to bring up children would now be unable to do so. If such a rule had been in place, he would have left England. So rather than gain a skilled migrant Britain would have lost one and 2 skilled children who have also contributed a load of taxes to this country.

    Brilliant. Just brilliant.

    I thought you lot were in favour of traditional stable families.

    Is there anyone left in the Tory party able to think through the consequences of what they announce? Anyone at all?
    Well would have freed up some housing and demand for public services.

    Seriously though I think the annual minimum gross income for the foreign spouse and their UK partner so the spouse gets a visa stays at £18,600.
    As usual, you've come up with a pile of ill-informed crap.

    From the BBC:
    A UK citizen who marries a non-UK citizen will not be able to being their new spouse to the UK to live with them unless the UK citizen is earning £38,700.
    “We will ensure people only bring dependants whom they can support financially, by raising the minimum income for family visas to the same threshold as the minimum salary threshold for Skilled Workers, £38,700,” he said.


    Google "family visa" if you don't understand what it is.
    Absolutely appalling . Punishing UK citizens for falling in love with a non Brit .
    Absolutely appalling its not punishing anyone simple fact is people cost the state money in nhs costs, policing costs , housing costs etc.

    If you set the bar low and people are coming over costing more in services and infrastructre like housing than the primary is paying in tax then do you expect all those things to be less strained or more strained?

    People like you are always complaining services are underfunded and I agree.....adding to the burden by allowing people to come which compared to tax paid by them increases the costs of services and infrastructure than there primary pays in tax merely adds to the strain. You can't have it both ways sorry
    Perhaps it would be a good idea to make it illegal for couples earning less that £38,000 to have children?

    Why should the poor be allowed to being people into the world "costing more in services and infrastructure"?
    If you can't afford children you shouldn't have them I agree. I have a son. We only had the one because this was before the time of tax credits etc and we could not afford another child.

    Why therefore do you as you seem to believe someone should be able to come here with a wife and two children and earning minimum wage when our services are already underfunded. Sorry public services need to be funded. I don't see it as a big ask to ensure migrants are paying enough to fund the people they want to bring over....if they can great bring them over.

    It is attitudes like yours that have landed us with heavily underfunded services as we have had continually brought in people who cost us more than they contribute. This is why people are pissed off with the let them all come brigade
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,274
    On Topic:

    The Tories are going to lose the next election.

    And in breaking news, the Pope remains Catholic.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,908
    edited December 2023
    Chris said:

    Pagan2 said:

    nico679 said:

    Chris said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    Three quarters of Brits now too poor to marry a foreigner

    https://twitter.com/Smyth_Chris/status/1731732325401047354

    No any Brit can marry a foreigner provided the foreigner earns over £38k a year or is in a shortage occupation
    So someone like my father - a doctor - marrying a foreign woman who chooses to stay at home to bring up children would now be unable to do so. If such a rule had been in place, he would have left England. So rather than gain a skilled migrant Britain would have lost one and 2 skilled children who have also contributed a load of taxes to this country.

    Brilliant. Just brilliant.

    I thought you lot were in favour of traditional stable families.

    Is there anyone left in the Tory party able to think through the consequences of what they announce? Anyone at all?
    Well would have freed up some housing and demand for public services.

    Seriously though I think the annual minimum gross income for the foreign spouse and their UK partner so the spouse gets a visa stays at £18,600.
    As usual, you've come up with a pile of ill-informed crap.

    From the BBC:
    A UK citizen who marries a non-UK citizen will not be able to being their new spouse to the UK to live with them unless the UK citizen is earning £38,700.
    “We will ensure people only bring dependants whom they can support financially, by raising the minimum income for family visas to the same threshold as the minimum salary threshold for Skilled Workers, £38,700,” he said.


    Google "family visa" if you don't understand what it is.
    Absolutely appalling . Punishing UK citizens for falling in love with a non Brit .
    Absolutely appalling its not punishing anyone simple fact is people cost the state money in nhs costs, policing costs , housing costs etc.

    If you set the bar low and people are coming over costing more in services and infrastructre like housing than the primary is paying in tax then do you expect all those things to be less strained or more strained?

    People like you are always complaining services are underfunded and I agree.....adding to the burden by allowing people to come which compared to tax paid by them increases the costs of services and infrastructure than there primary pays in tax merely adds to the strain. You can't have it both ways sorry
    Perhaps it would be a good idea to make it illegal for couples earning less that £38,000 to have children?

    Why should the poor be allowed to being people into the world "costing more in services and infrastructure"?
    Well they can't get UC and tax credits now for more than 2 children
  • Stock up on battery devices in case of grid meltdown, Britons told
    Deputy prime minister urges public to imagine analogue era to prepare for digital or power blackouts

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/stock-up-on-batteries-in-case-of-grid-meltdown-britons-told-hpdwhlfql (£££)

    Oliver Dowden's State of the Nation address after 13 years in office.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,070

    That picture in the header is surely deserving of a caption competition:

    image

    "...To hold in my hand a capsule that contains such power, to know that life and death on such a scale was my choice... To know that the tiny pressure of my thumb, enough to break the glass, would end everything... Yes, I would do it! That power would set me up above the gods!..."

  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,870
    Chris said:

    Pagan2 said:

    nico679 said:

    Chris said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    Three quarters of Brits now too poor to marry a foreigner

    https://twitter.com/Smyth_Chris/status/1731732325401047354

    No any Brit can marry a foreigner provided the foreigner earns over £38k a year or is in a shortage occupation
    So someone like my father - a doctor - marrying a foreign woman who chooses to stay at home to bring up children would now be unable to do so. If such a rule had been in place, he would have left England. So rather than gain a skilled migrant Britain would have lost one and 2 skilled children who have also contributed a load of taxes to this country.

    Brilliant. Just brilliant.

    I thought you lot were in favour of traditional stable families.

    Is there anyone left in the Tory party able to think through the consequences of what they announce? Anyone at all?
    Well would have freed up some housing and demand for public services.

    Seriously though I think the annual minimum gross income for the foreign spouse and their UK partner so the spouse gets a visa stays at £18,600.
    As usual, you've come up with a pile of ill-informed crap.

    From the BBC:
    A UK citizen who marries a non-UK citizen will not be able to being their new spouse to the UK to live with them unless the UK citizen is earning £38,700.
    “We will ensure people only bring dependants whom they can support financially, by raising the minimum income for family visas to the same threshold as the minimum salary threshold for Skilled Workers, £38,700,” he said.


    Google "family visa" if you don't understand what it is.
    Absolutely appalling . Punishing UK citizens for falling in love with a non Brit .
    Absolutely appalling its not punishing anyone simple fact is people cost the state money in nhs costs, policing costs , housing costs etc.

    If you set the bar low and people are coming over costing more in services and infrastructre like housing than the primary is paying in tax then do you expect all those things to be less strained or more strained?

    People like you are always complaining services are underfunded and I agree.....adding to the burden by allowing people to come which compared to tax paid by them increases the costs of services and infrastructure than there primary pays in tax merely adds to the strain. You can't have it both ways sorry
    Perhaps it would be a good idea to make it illegal for couples earning less that £38,000 to have children?

    Why should the poor be allowed to being people into the world "costing more in services and infrastructure"?
    If you can't afford children you

    Pagan2 said:

    nico679 said:

    Chris said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    Three quarters of Brits now too poor to marry a foreigner

    https://twitter.com/Smyth_Chris/status/1731732325401047354

    No any Brit can marry a foreigner provided the foreigner earns over £38k a year or is in a shortage occupation
    So someone like my father - a doctor - marrying a foreign woman who chooses to stay at home to bring up children would now be unable to do so. If such a rule had been in place, he would have left England. So rather than gain a skilled migrant Britain would have lost one and 2 skilled children who have also contributed a load of taxes to this country.

    Brilliant. Just brilliant.

    I thought you lot were in favour of traditional stable families.

    Is there anyone left in the Tory party able to think through the consequences of what they announce? Anyone at all?
    Well would have freed up some housing and demand for public services.

    Seriously though I think the annual minimum gross income for the foreign spouse and their UK partner so the spouse gets a visa stays at £18,600.
    As usual, you've come up with a pile of ill-informed crap.

    From the BBC:
    A UK citizen who marries a non-UK citizen will not be able to being their new spouse to the UK to live with them unless the UK citizen is earning £38,700.
    “We will ensure people only bring dependants whom they can support financially, by raising the minimum income for family visas to the same threshold as the minimum salary threshold for Skilled Workers, £38,700,” he said.


    Google "family visa" if you don't understand what it is.
    Absolutely appalling . Punishing UK citizens for falling in love with a non Brit .
    Absolutely appalling its not punishing anyone simple fact is people cost the state money in nhs costs, policing costs , housing costs etc.

    If you set the bar low and people are coming over costing more in services and infrastructre like housing than the primary is paying in tax then do you expect all those things to be less strained or more strained?

    People like you are always complaining services are underfunded and I agree.....adding to the burden by allowing people to come which compared to tax paid by them increases the costs of services and infrastructure than there primary pays in tax merely adds to the strain. You can't have it both ways sorry

    Why is it costing the state anything if a British citizen earning £30,000 a year marries someone with the capacity to earn the same amount or more?

    Because that has not been the case up to now and still isnt necessarily. I lived in slough had a couple in the flat above from poland. Lovely people had no problem with them as people. However both on min wage and moved over with two schoolage children......now they were both earning but I am betting there combined tax didn't even cover the schooling for one child let alone two. That is before you add in nhs costs etc. How does that help public service funding?
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,748
    Pagan2 said:

    Chris said:

    Pagan2 said:

    nico679 said:

    Chris said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    Three quarters of Brits now too poor to marry a foreigner

    https://twitter.com/Smyth_Chris/status/1731732325401047354

    No any Brit can marry a foreigner provided the foreigner earns over £38k a year or is in a shortage occupation
    So someone like my father - a doctor - marrying a foreign woman who chooses to stay at home to bring up children would now be unable to do so. If such a rule had been in place, he would have left England. So rather than gain a skilled migrant Britain would have lost one and 2 skilled children who have also contributed a load of taxes to this country.

    Brilliant. Just brilliant.

    I thought you lot were in favour of traditional stable families.

    Is there anyone left in the Tory party able to think through the consequences of what they announce? Anyone at all?
    Well would have freed up some housing and demand for public services.

    Seriously though I think the annual minimum gross income for the foreign spouse and their UK partner so the spouse gets a visa stays at £18,600.
    As usual, you've come up with a pile of ill-informed crap.

    From the BBC:
    A UK citizen who marries a non-UK citizen will not be able to being their new spouse to the UK to live with them unless the UK citizen is earning £38,700.
    “We will ensure people only bring dependants whom they can support financially, by raising the minimum income for family visas to the same threshold as the minimum salary threshold for Skilled Workers, £38,700,” he said.


    Google "family visa" if you don't understand what it is.
    Absolutely appalling . Punishing UK citizens for falling in love with a non Brit .
    Absolutely appalling its not punishing anyone simple fact is people cost the state money in nhs costs, policing costs , housing costs etc.

    If you set the bar low and people are coming over costing more in services and infrastructre like housing than the primary is paying in tax then do you expect all those things to be less strained or more strained?

    People like you are always complaining services are underfunded and I agree.....adding to the burden by allowing people to come which compared to tax paid by them increases the costs of services and infrastructure than there primary pays in tax merely adds to the strain. You can't have it both ways sorry
    Perhaps it would be a good idea to make it illegal for couples earning less that £38,000 to have children?

    Why should the poor be allowed to being people into the world "costing more in services and infrastructure"?
    If you can't afford children you shouldn't have them I agree. I have a son. We only had the one because this was before the time of tax credits etc and we could not afford another child.

    Why therefore do you as you seem to believe someone should be able to come here with a wife and two children and earning minimum wage when our services are already underfunded. Sorry public services need to be funded. I don't see it as a big ask to ensure migrants are paying enough to fund the people they want to bring over....if they can great bring them over.

    It is attitudes like yours that have landed us with heavily underfunded services as we have had continually brought in people who cost us more than they contribute. This is why people are pissed off with the let them all come brigade
    You think the minimum wage is £38k? I know some Tories are a bit out of touch, but boy oh boy ...
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653
    eek said:

    Cyclefree said:

    eek said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway, off topic - any recommendations for the best in-shower speaker, please.

    Ta muchly.

    Listening to what? The radio or something coming from your phone?

    Also do you need to do anything like skip tracks or are you happy to listen to whatever is coming through the speaker until you’ve finished the shower?

    Finally how do you plan to charge it?
    Music

    From phone. Skipping tracks not essential.

    No idea. In the normal way.
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bluetooth-Portable-Speakers-Wireless-Waterproof/dp/B08TBXB2TL/
    Seriously, how can anyone listen to music in the shower? The noise of the shower for one thing and how long are you in the shower for to listen to tracks plural?

    The bath, I could understand.
  • Jacob Rees-Mogg’s investment manager firm hit by loss of client

    The City firm founded by Sir Jacob Rees-Mogg ... has suffered a drastic loss of business after St James’s Place pulled plum mandates worth more than £2 billion.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/jacob-rees-mogg-somerset-capital-management-jb9vn7hnx (£££)
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    Pagan2 said:

    Chris said:

    Pagan2 said:

    nico679 said:

    Chris said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    Three quarters of Brits now too poor to marry a foreigner

    https://twitter.com/Smyth_Chris/status/1731732325401047354

    No any Brit can marry a foreigner provided the foreigner earns over £38k a year or is in a shortage occupation
    So someone like my father - a doctor - marrying a foreign woman who chooses to stay at home to bring up children would now be unable to do so. If such a rule had been in place, he would have left England. So rather than gain a skilled migrant Britain would have lost one and 2 skilled children who have also contributed a load of taxes to this country.

    Brilliant. Just brilliant.

    I thought you lot were in favour of traditional stable families.

    Is there anyone left in the Tory party able to think through the consequences of what they announce? Anyone at all?
    Well would have freed up some housing and demand for public services.

    Seriously though I think the annual minimum gross income for the foreign spouse and their UK partner so the spouse gets a visa stays at £18,600.
    As usual, you've come up with a pile of ill-informed crap.

    From the BBC:
    A UK citizen who marries a non-UK citizen will not be able to being their new spouse to the UK to live with them unless the UK citizen is earning £38,700.
    “We will ensure people only bring dependants whom they can support financially, by raising the minimum income for family visas to the same threshold as the minimum salary threshold for Skilled Workers, £38,700,” he said.


    Google "family visa" if you don't understand what it is.
    Absolutely appalling . Punishing UK citizens for falling in love with a non Brit .
    Absolutely appalling its not punishing anyone simple fact is people cost the state money in nhs costs, policing costs , housing costs etc.

    If you set the bar low and people are coming over costing more in services and infrastructre like housing than the primary is paying in tax then do you expect all those things to be less strained or more strained?

    People like you are always complaining services are underfunded and I agree.....adding to the burden by allowing people to come which compared to tax paid by them increases the costs of services and infrastructure than there primary pays in tax merely adds to the strain. You can't have it both ways sorry
    Perhaps it would be a good idea to make it illegal for couples earning less that £38,000 to have children?

    Why should the poor be allowed to being people into the world "costing more in services and infrastructure"?
    If you can't afford children you shouldn't have them I agree. I have a son. We only had the one because this was before the time of tax credits etc and we could not afford another child.

    Why therefore do you as you seem to believe someone should be able to come here with a wife and two children and earning minimum wage when our services are already underfunded. Sorry public services need to be funded. I don't see it as a big ask to ensure migrants are paying enough to fund the people they want to bring over....if they can great bring them over.

    It is attitudes like yours that have landed us with heavily underfunded services as we have had continually brought in people who cost us more than they contribute. This is why people are pissed off with the let them all come brigade
    Should have stayed in the EU .

    EU nationals were a net plus for the Treasury. Aswell as that those working in social care didn’t tend to bring family because they could see them more often , they also tended to be young and fit .

    It’s funny how the issue of family members has happened since Brexit .



  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,870
    Chris said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Chris said:

    Pagan2 said:

    nico679 said:

    Chris said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    Three quarters of Brits now too poor to marry a foreigner

    https://twitter.com/Smyth_Chris/status/1731732325401047354

    No any Brit can marry a foreigner provided the foreigner earns over £38k a year or is in a shortage occupation
    So someone like my father - a doctor - marrying a foreign woman who chooses to stay at home to bring up children would now be unable to do so. If such a rule had been in place, he would have left England. So rather than gain a skilled migrant Britain would have lost one and 2 skilled children who have also contributed a load of taxes to this country.

    Brilliant. Just brilliant.

    I thought you lot were in favour of traditional stable families.

    Is there anyone left in the Tory party able to think through the consequences of what they announce? Anyone at all?
    Well would have freed up some housing and demand for public services.

    Seriously though I think the annual minimum gross income for the foreign spouse and their UK partner so the spouse gets a visa stays at £18,600.
    As usual, you've come up with a pile of ill-informed crap.

    From the BBC:
    A UK citizen who marries a non-UK citizen will not be able to being their new spouse to the UK to live with them unless the UK citizen is earning £38,700.
    “We will ensure people only bring dependants whom they can support financially, by raising the minimum income for family visas to the same threshold as the minimum salary threshold for Skilled Workers, £38,700,” he said.


    Google "family visa" if you don't understand what it is.
    Absolutely appalling . Punishing UK citizens for falling in love with a non Brit .
    Absolutely appalling its not punishing anyone simple fact is people cost the state money in nhs costs, policing costs , housing costs etc.

    If you set the bar low and people are coming over costing more in services and infrastructre like housing than the primary is paying in tax then do you expect all those things to be less strained or more strained?

    People like you are always complaining services are underfunded and I agree.....adding to the burden by allowing people to come which compared to tax paid by them increases the costs of services and infrastructure than there primary pays in tax merely adds to the strain. You can't have it both ways sorry
    Perhaps it would be a good idea to make it illegal for couples earning less that £38,000 to have children?

    Why should the poor be allowed to being people into the world "costing more in services and infrastructure"?
    If you can't afford children you shouldn't have them I agree. I have a son. We only had the one because this was before the time of tax credits etc and we could not afford another child.

    Why therefore do you as you seem to believe someone should be able to come here with a wife and two children and earning minimum wage when our services are already underfunded. Sorry public services need to be funded. I don't see it as a big ask to ensure migrants are paying enough to fund the people they want to bring over....if they can great bring them over.

    It is attitudes like yours that have landed us with heavily underfunded services as we have had continually brought in people who cost us more than they contribute. This is why people are pissed off with the let them all come brigade
    You think the minimum wage is £38k? I know some Tories are a bit out of touch, but boy oh boy ...
    Where did I say the min wage for 38k clue I didnt however the wage at which you become revenue neutral is about 38k and that is for one person not 2 or 3
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,274

    Stock up on battery devices in case of grid meltdown, Britons told
    Deputy prime minister urges public to imagine analogue era to prepare for digital or power blackouts

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/stock-up-on-batteries-in-case-of-grid-meltdown-britons-told-hpdwhlfql (£££)

    Oliver Dowden's State of the Nation address after 13 years in office.

    Total meltdown could be looming! Happy New Year! :D
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    I wonder if the way she drives has any impact in why she is stopped by the police so often?

    https://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-67613292
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368
    edited December 2023

    Stock up on battery devices in case of grid meltdown, Britons told
    Deputy prime minister urges public to imagine analogue era to prepare for digital or power blackouts

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/stock-up-on-batteries-in-case-of-grid-meltdown-britons-told-hpdwhlfql (£££)

    Oliver Dowden's State of the Nation address after 13 years in office.

    currently sorting out batteries and solar panels. if I want to add whole house backup in the case of a power cut it's a right faff and £1500 or so extra and if you don't do it properly with your house isolated from the rest of the grid because otherwise its x years in jail for sending power back into the grid while the grid is trying to fix the powercut.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,748
    Pagan2 said:

    Chris said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Chris said:

    Pagan2 said:

    nico679 said:

    Chris said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    Three quarters of Brits now too poor to marry a foreigner

    https://twitter.com/Smyth_Chris/status/1731732325401047354

    No any Brit can marry a foreigner provided the foreigner earns over £38k a year or is in a shortage occupation
    So someone like my father - a doctor - marrying a foreign woman who chooses to stay at home to bring up children would now be unable to do so. If such a rule had been in place, he would have left England. So rather than gain a skilled migrant Britain would have lost one and 2 skilled children who have also contributed a load of taxes to this country.

    Brilliant. Just brilliant.

    I thought you lot were in favour of traditional stable families.

    Is there anyone left in the Tory party able to think through the consequences of what they announce? Anyone at all?
    Well would have freed up some housing and demand for public services.

    Seriously though I think the annual minimum gross income for the foreign spouse and their UK partner so the spouse gets a visa stays at £18,600.
    As usual, you've come up with a pile of ill-informed crap.

    From the BBC:
    A UK citizen who marries a non-UK citizen will not be able to being their new spouse to the UK to live with them unless the UK citizen is earning £38,700.
    “We will ensure people only bring dependants whom they can support financially, by raising the minimum income for family visas to the same threshold as the minimum salary threshold for Skilled Workers, £38,700,” he said.


    Google "family visa" if you don't understand what it is.
    Absolutely appalling . Punishing UK citizens for falling in love with a non Brit .
    Absolutely appalling its not punishing anyone simple fact is people cost the state money in nhs costs, policing costs , housing costs etc.

    If you set the bar low and people are coming over costing more in services and infrastructre like housing than the primary is paying in tax then do you expect all those things to be less strained or more strained?

    People like you are always complaining services are underfunded and I agree.....adding to the burden by allowing people to come which compared to tax paid by them increases the costs of services and infrastructure than there primary pays in tax merely adds to the strain. You can't have it both ways sorry
    Perhaps it would be a good idea to make it illegal for couples earning less that £38,000 to have children?

    Why should the poor be allowed to being people into the world "costing more in services and infrastructure"?
    If you can't afford children you shouldn't have them I agree. I have a son. We only had the one because this was before the time of tax credits etc and we could not afford another child.

    Why therefore do you as you seem to believe someone should be able to come here with a wife and two children and earning minimum wage when our services are already underfunded. Sorry public services need to be funded. I don't see it as a big ask to ensure migrants are paying enough to fund the people they want to bring over....if they can great bring them over.

    It is attitudes like yours that have landed us with heavily underfunded services as we have had continually brought in people who cost us more than they contribute. This is why people are pissed off with the let them all come brigade
    You think the minimum wage is £38k? I know some Tories are a bit out of touch, but boy oh boy ...
    Where did I say the min wage for 38k ...
    If you don't remember where you said "minimum wage" all you have to do is use the "search" facility of your browser. If you can remember how to do that.
  • GIN1138 said:

    Stock up on battery devices in case of grid meltdown, Britons told
    Deputy prime minister urges public to imagine analogue era to prepare for digital or power blackouts

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/stock-up-on-batteries-in-case-of-grid-meltdown-britons-told-hpdwhlfql (£££)

    Oliver Dowden's State of the Nation address after 13 years in office.

    Total meltdown could be looming! Happy New Year! :D
    Is that for CON??
  • I've just seen a sneak preview of the key Tory slogan for the GE:

    British spouses for British workers.

    Poor Akshata :lol:
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,984

    I've just seen a sneak preview of the key Tory slogan for the GE:

    British spouses for British workers.

    Someone on TwiX should start calling this the new Tory anti-miscegenation law.
  • Pagan2 said:

    Chris said:

    Pagan2 said:

    nico679 said:

    Chris said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    Three quarters of Brits now too poor to marry a foreigner

    https://twitter.com/Smyth_Chris/status/1731732325401047354

    No any Brit can marry a foreigner provided the foreigner earns over £38k a year or is in a shortage occupation
    So someone like my father - a doctor - marrying a foreign woman who chooses to stay at home to bring up children would now be unable to do so. If such a rule had been in place, he would have left England. So rather than gain a skilled migrant Britain would have lost one and 2 skilled children who have also contributed a load of taxes to this country.

    Brilliant. Just brilliant.

    I thought you lot were in favour of traditional stable families.

    Is there anyone left in the Tory party able to think through the consequences of what they announce? Anyone at all?
    Well would have freed up some housing and demand for public services.

    Seriously though I think the annual minimum gross income for the foreign spouse and their UK partner so the spouse gets a visa stays at £18,600.
    As usual, you've come up with a pile of ill-informed crap.

    From the BBC:
    A UK citizen who marries a non-UK citizen will not be able to being their new spouse to the UK to live with them unless the UK citizen is earning £38,700.
    “We will ensure people only bring dependants whom they can support financially, by raising the minimum income for family visas to the same threshold as the minimum salary threshold for Skilled Workers, £38,700,” he said.


    Google "family visa" if you don't understand what it is.
    Absolutely appalling . Punishing UK citizens for falling in love with a non Brit .
    Absolutely appalling its not punishing anyone simple fact is people cost the state money in nhs costs, policing costs , housing costs etc.

    If you set the bar low and people are coming over costing more in services and infrastructre like housing than the primary is paying in tax then do you expect all those things to be less strained or more strained?

    People like you are always complaining services are underfunded and I agree.....adding to the burden by allowing people to come which compared to tax paid by them increases the costs of services and infrastructure than there primary pays in tax merely adds to the strain. You can't have it both ways sorry
    Perhaps it would be a good idea to make it illegal for couples earning less that £38,000 to have children?

    Why should the poor be allowed to being people into the world "costing more in services and infrastructure"?
    If you can't afford children you

    Pagan2 said:

    nico679 said:

    Chris said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    Three quarters of Brits now too poor to marry a foreigner

    https://twitter.com/Smyth_Chris/status/1731732325401047354

    No any Brit can marry a foreigner provided the foreigner earns over £38k a year or is in a shortage occupation
    So someone like my father - a doctor - marrying a foreign woman who chooses to stay at home to bring up children would now be unable to do so. If such a rule had been in place, he would have left England. So rather than gain a skilled migrant Britain would have lost one and 2 skilled children who have also contributed a load of taxes to this country.

    Brilliant. Just brilliant.

    I thought you lot were in favour of traditional stable families.

    Is there anyone left in the Tory party able to think through the consequences of what they announce? Anyone at all?
    Well would have freed up some housing and demand for public services.

    Seriously though I think the annual minimum gross income for the foreign spouse and their UK partner so the spouse gets a visa stays at £18,600.
    As usual, you've come up with a pile of ill-informed crap.

    From the BBC:
    A UK citizen who marries a non-UK citizen will not be able to being their new spouse to the UK to live with them unless the UK citizen is earning £38,700.
    “We will ensure people only bring dependants whom they can support financially, by raising the minimum income for family visas to the same threshold as the minimum salary threshold for Skilled Workers, £38,700,” he said.


    Google "family visa" if you don't understand what it is.
    Absolutely appalling . Punishing UK citizens for falling in love with a non Brit .
    Absolutely appalling its not punishing anyone simple fact is people cost the state money in nhs costs, policing costs , housing costs etc.

    If you set the bar low and people are coming over costing more in services and infrastructre like housing than the primary is paying in tax then do you expect all those things to be less strained or more strained?

    People like you are always complaining services are underfunded and I agree.....adding to the burden by allowing people to come which compared to tax paid by them increases the costs of services and infrastructure than there primary pays in tax merely adds to the strain. You can't have it both ways sorry

    Why is it costing the state anything if a British citizen earning £30,000 a year marries someone with the capacity to earn the same amount or more?

    Because that has not been the case up to now and still isnt necessarily. I lived in slough had a couple in the flat above from poland. Lovely people had no problem with them as people. However both on min wage and moved over with two schoolage children......now they were both earning but I am betting there combined tax didn't even cover the schooling for one child let alone two. That is before you add in nhs costs etc. How does that help public service funding?

    EU citizens were net contributors in terms of tax. You pay tax on more than your income and when you spend money in the local economy you increase the profitability of the businesses you use, which means they pay more tax. The OBR forecast provided at the time of the Autumn Statement was predicated on high levels of immigration. Without those growth and, therefore, tax take reduces.

  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,786

    Cookie said:

    Ratters said:

    New visa stuff is a bloody disaster for care sector imho.

    Have they any idea what is happening, staff-wise, in care homes?

    See:

    Mike Padgham, the chair of the Independent Care Group which runs several care homes in North Yorkshire tells us: “Well I think we are going to find more businesses fail, care homes closing.

    BBC News

    I agree it's a disaster as things stand, but should it be?

    Should these jobs not be well paid enough to attract UK residents to take them? E.g. a material step up from stacking shelves at supermarkets or other low skill jobs at or above minimum wage.

    Of course the implication is the cost of care would rise, and the state or those under care would shoulder the cost of that, but that's how things should be.

    Our migration policy shouldn't be determined just because there are business models that are reliant on an endless stream of cheap labour from overseas.
    Very well put. I was trying to find the words to articulate this and you've saved me the bother.
    Immigration is a bit of a ponzi scheme. It will be expensive to get out of it but tge longer we leave it the more expensive it will be.
    You're happy to see taxes and/or borrowing go up to cover the sharp increase in social care costs that the state necessarily has to cover for the majority (63%) who cannot afford their own?
    Well yes.
    Continually avoiding the problem by importing people is just putting off the problem, making it a bigger problem later.
This discussion has been closed.