Nikki Haley could be the Republican that stops Trump – politicalbetting.com
Nikki Haley moves to a 5.8% net favourability lead over both Trump and Biden. She's the only one surely who can beat Trump for the GOP nomination https://t.co/mlmH50AOxC pic.twitter.com/qJfZP8bzFk
Comments
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FPT
I would say Biden landslide. Once the voters know who he is, Kennedy takes from the edgy contrarian vote that would otherwise mostly go to Trump or DNV. Trump and Haley split the GOP vote. Haley cleaves off a little bit of no-Trumper ex-GOP vote off from Biden but not much, as she has to sound quite Trumpist to avoid getting squeezed by Trump. So I think Biden hangs on to close to 40% which is easily enough if the rest is split like that.moonshine said:What does a 4-way race loon like in the electoral college? (Biden, Haley, and independent runs from Kennedy and Trump).
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Second like Haley.0
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I posted this discussion on Biden's chances a few days ago with Nate Silver on the New Liberal podcast. One of the things the Neoliberal guy mentions is that net favourability ratings seem to be best if you're only somewhat known; If nobody's heard of you then you don't get many favourables, but once you get to the other end of the scale and become very well-known you also get a lot of unfavourables. This is also the thing to be careful about with some of the highly-rated Biden alternatives like Gretchen Whitmer.
https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9uZW9saWJwb2RjYXN0LmxpYnN5bi5jb20vcnNz/episode/M2QyMjZhNTMtNjlkYS00NTFjLWFkNDItZjgzMzM5NWY0MmJj?sa=X&ved=0CAQQ8qgGahcKEwjQs9f_2fKCAxUAAAAAHQAAAAAQAQ
So I think there's a good reason to think that Haley's ratings would drop if ended up in a head-to-head with Donald Trump. But I do think she's impressive; She was one of the only people to come out of a job with the Trump administration with her reputation intact. And although Trump is obviously the favourite for the primary, early states often surprise and if she beats him in a couple of those then we're off to the races.3 -
Yes, I think that true. Its the same here.edmundintokyo said:I posted this discussion on Biden's chances a few days ago with Nate Silver on the New Liberal podcast. One of the things the Neoliberal guy mentions is that net favourability ratings seem to be best if you're only somewhat known; If nobody's heard of you then you don't get many favourables, but once you get to the other end of the scale and become very well-known you also get a lot of unfavourables. This is also the thing to be careful about with some of the highly-rated Biden alternatives like Gretchen Whitmer.
https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9uZW9saWJwb2RjYXN0LmxpYnN5bi5jb20vcnNz/episode/M2QyMjZhNTMtNjlkYS00NTFjLWFkNDItZjgzMzM5NWY0MmJj?sa=X&ved=0CAQQ8qgGahcKEwjQs9f_2fKCAxUAAAAAHQAAAAAQAQ
So I think there's a good reason to think that Haley's ratings would drop if ended up in a head-to-head with Donald Trump. But I do think she's impressive; She was one of the only people to come out of a job with the Trump administration with her reputation intact. And although Trump is obviously the favourite for the primary, early states often surprise and if she beats him in a couple of those then we're off to the races.0 -
If Haley defeats (or looks on course to defeat) Trump do we seriously think he will accept that with quiet dignity? He will throw his rattle out of the pram and cause complete havoc. I am not sure primary system can contain that.2
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The quest to find the clitoris of the English electorate is unending.
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He suddenly looks like he’s wearing a weird multicoloured toupeeTheuniondivvie said:The quest to find the clitoris of the English electorate is unending.
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The dogs bark but the caravan moves on? Obviously he'd say he woz robbed and it would be a fun convention, but if he hasn't got the votes then he hasn't got the votes.Jonathan said:If Haley defeats (or looks on course to defeat) Trump do we seriously think he will accept that with quiet dignity? He will throw his rattle out of the pram and cause complete havoc. I am not sure primary system can contain that.
The real question would be whether he tried to run as an independent, but even if he wants to that seems hard because of the sore loser laws and so forth. The rational thing to do would be to bargain with Haley for a pardon, but at that point I guess we'd find out how rational he is.0 -
Yeah because sucking up to Mrs Thatcher really boosted Gordon Brown. Not. FFS stop listening to Peter bloody Mandelson. He was wrong then; he is wrong now.Theuniondivvie said:The quest to find the clitoris of the English electorate is unending.
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From the Times this morning. This is it. The eschaton is here and all will be judged according to their gnosis and worldly actions.
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Had the weird experience of thinking about you yesterday at a birthday lunch. I didn’t know your favourite knife-makers made knives for dining purposes but they were every bit as sharp as their fold up fun knives.Leon said:
He suddenly looks like he’s wearing a weird multicoloured toupeeTheuniondivvie said:The quest to find the clitoris of the English electorate is unending.
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Preparing for the big change. No surgery involved I hope.Leon said:
He suddenly looks like he’s wearing a weird multicoloured toupeeTheuniondivvie said:The quest to find the clitoris of the English electorate is unending.
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Even if he doesn’t run as an independent, he will constantly distract from Haley (or whoever), criticise her, drive down Republican turnout, launch quixotic lawsuits, demand loyalty pledges from House and Senate candidates, etc. etc. All great news for the Dems.edmundintokyo said:
The dogs bark but the caravan moves on? Obviously he'd say he woz robbed and it would be a fun convention, but if he hasn't got the votes then he hasn't got the votes.Jonathan said:If Haley defeats (or looks on course to defeat) Trump do we seriously think he will accept that with quiet dignity? He will throw his rattle out of the pram and cause complete havoc. I am not sure primary system can contain that.
The real question would be whether he tried to run as an independent, but even if he wants to that seems hard because of the sore loser laws and so forth. The rational thing to do would be to bargain with Haley for a pardon, but at that point I guess we'd find out how rational he is.
The idea that he’ll bargain for a pardon, as I’ve said before, I’m not buying it. Even if he made some sort of agreement, it would take less than a week for him to break whatever terms were agreed. He cannot stop himself bloviating.2 -
The "generic Republican" (or Democrat) usually outpolls their flesh and blood competition.edmundintokyo said:I posted this discussion on Biden's chances a few days ago with Nate Silver on the New Liberal podcast. One of the things the Neoliberal guy mentions is that net favourability ratings seem to be best if you're only somewhat known; If nobody's heard of you then you don't get many favourables, but once you get to the other end of the scale and become very well-known you also get a lot of unfavourables. This is also the thing to be careful about with some of the highly-rated Biden alternatives like Gretchen Whitmer.
https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9uZW9saWJwb2RjYXN0LmxpYnN5bi5jb20vcnNz/episode/M2QyMjZhNTMtNjlkYS00NTFjLWFkNDItZjgzMzM5NWY0MmJj?sa=X&ved=0CAQQ8qgGahcKEwjQs9f_2fKCAxUAAAAAHQAAAAAQAQ
So I think there's a good reason to think that Haley's ratings would drop if ended up in a head-to-head with Donald Trump. But I do think she's impressive; She was one of the only people to come out of a job with the Trump administration with her reputation intact. And although Trump is obviously the favourite for the primary, early states often surprise and if she beats him in a couple of those then we're off to the races.2 -
Schnapps with Shapps is zingy.Dura_Ace said:From the Times this morning. This is it. The eschaton is here and all will be judged according to their gnosis and worldly actions.
Bevvy with Cleverly
Fizz with Liz
Perry with Penny
Glűhwein with Gove
Arak with Jack
Punch up with Cameron
The last is just a bit of advice,2 -
Going on about Thatcher for either good or bad just typifies how backward looking our country can be. Revisiting the history of 40 years ago when the economics and challenges of today are very different is just pointless.DecrepiterJohnL said:
Yeah because sucking up to Mrs Thatcher really boosted Gordon Brown. Not. FFS stop listening to Peter bloody Mandelson. He was wrong then; he is wrong now.Theuniondivvie said:The quest to find the clitoris of the English electorate is unending.
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Lovely knivesboulay said:
Had the weird experience of thinking about you yesterday at a birthday lunch. I didn’t know your favourite knife-makers made knives for dining purposes but they were every bit as sharp as their fold up fun knives.Leon said:
He suddenly looks like he’s wearing a weird multicoloured toupeeTheuniondivvie said:The quest to find the clitoris of the English electorate is unending.
Tho technically my favourite knives are these
Wolf and Dingo. Hand forged on Bodmin Moor. I have three. Superb
https://www.atkinson-art.co.uk/product-category/wolf-dingo-chef-knives-for-valhalla/
Only problem is they are 25 times the price of Opinel0 -
Thatcher was the greatest peacetime prime minister in the modern era, by a distance - to my mind - but even I agree it is quite odd how everyone references her 4 decades laterFoxy said:
Going on about Thatcher for either good or bad just typifies how backward looking our country can be. Revisiting the history of 40 years ago when the economics and challenges of today are very different is just pointless.DecrepiterJohnL said:
Yeah because sucking up to Mrs Thatcher really boosted Gordon Brown. Not. FFS stop listening to Peter bloody Mandelson. He was wrong then; he is wrong now.Theuniondivvie said:The quest to find the clitoris of the English electorate is unending.
Is there any other other major democracy so obsessed with such an historically distant politician?
I can’t think of one. Not Reagan or Clinton. Not Schroeder or kohl. Not Mitterrand or giscard
Thatcher seems unique. She is also hero worshipped by the right in the USA, no other UK politician (with the obvious exception of Churchill) merits a passing glance0 -
The Russians have missed a trick when it comes toTheuniondivvie said:
Schnapps with Shapps is zingy.Dura_Ace said:From the Times this morning. This is it. The eschaton is here and all will be judged according to their gnosis and worldly actions.
Bevvy with Cleverly
Fizz with Liz
Perry with Penny
Glűhwein with Gove
Arak with Jack
Punch up with Cameron
The last is just a bit of advice,
Hootin’ with Putin
Going round to Vlad’s dacha for a massive coke bender0 -
I never had you down as a rustle something up oh where's the asafoetida kind of guy.Leon said:
Lovely knivesboulay said:
Had the weird experience of thinking about you yesterday at a birthday lunch. I didn’t know your favourite knife-makers made knives for dining purposes but they were every bit as sharp as their fold up fun knives.Leon said:
He suddenly looks like he’s wearing a weird multicoloured toupeeTheuniondivvie said:The quest to find the clitoris of the English electorate is unending.
Tho technically my favourite knives are these
Wolf and Dingo. Hand forged on Bodmin Moor. I have three. Superb
https://www.atkinson-art.co.uk/product-category/wolf-dingo-chef-knives-for-valhalla/
Only problem is they are 25 times the price of Opinel0 -
I have a mild knife obsessionTOPPING said:
I never had you down as a rustle something up oh where's the asafoetida kind of guy.Leon said:
Lovely knivesboulay said:
Had the weird experience of thinking about you yesterday at a birthday lunch. I didn’t know your favourite knife-makers made knives for dining purposes but they were every bit as sharp as their fold up fun knives.Leon said:
He suddenly looks like he’s wearing a weird multicoloured toupeeTheuniondivvie said:The quest to find the clitoris of the English electorate is unending.
Tho technically my favourite knives are these
Wolf and Dingo. Hand forged on Bodmin Moor. I have three. Superb
https://www.atkinson-art.co.uk/product-category/wolf-dingo-chef-knives-for-valhalla/
Only problem is they are 25 times the price of Opinel
Coincidentally I am reading a book about forensic psychiatry and “an obsession with knives” is one of the top 20 primary indicators of psychopathy
I also tick several other boxes. Odd sensation0 -
Chemsex with KemiTheuniondivvie said:
Schnapps with Shapps is zingy.Dura_Ace said:From the Times this morning. This is it. The eschaton is here and all will be judged according to their gnosis and worldly actions.
Bevvy with Cleverly
Fizz with Liz
Perry with Penny
Glűhwein with Gove
Arak with Jack
Punch up with Cameron
The last is just a bit of advice,
Jenkem with Jenrick
Assisted Suicide with Sunak
Take Your Library Books Back with Steve Barclay4 -
We have grey politicians right now. Because we wanted them after a period of lunatics.Foxy said:
Going on about Thatcher for either good or bad just typifies how backward looking our country can be. Revisiting the history of 40 years ago when the economics and challenges of today are very different is just pointless.DecrepiterJohnL said:
Yeah because sucking up to Mrs Thatcher really boosted Gordon Brown. Not. FFS stop listening to Peter bloody Mandelson. He was wrong then; he is wrong now.Theuniondivvie said:The quest to find the clitoris of the English electorate is unending.
Trying to associate oneself with a non-grey, charismatic leader is a classic grey man ploy.0 -
The next PB CEO. Or was that sociopath.Leon said:
I have a mild knife obsessionTOPPING said:
I never had you down as a rustle something up oh where's the asafoetida kind of guy.Leon said:
Lovely knivesboulay said:
Had the weird experience of thinking about you yesterday at a birthday lunch. I didn’t know your favourite knife-makers made knives for dining purposes but they were every bit as sharp as their fold up fun knives.Leon said:
He suddenly looks like he’s wearing a weird multicoloured toupeeTheuniondivvie said:The quest to find the clitoris of the English electorate is unending.
Tho technically my favourite knives are these
Wolf and Dingo. Hand forged on Bodmin Moor. I have three. Superb
https://www.atkinson-art.co.uk/product-category/wolf-dingo-chef-knives-for-valhalla/
Only problem is they are 25 times the price of Opinel
Coincidentally I am reading a book about forensic psychiatry and “an obsession with knives” is one of the top 20 primary indicators of psychopathy
I also tick several other boxes. Odd sensation0 -
This ever happen to DA ?
https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/17311145442050787130 -
Macron is visiting Doha
“Macron had planned to make an extensive tour of the Middle East but instead held meetings about the conflict on the sidelines of UN climate talks.
Neither Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu nor Palestinian Authority leader Mahmoud Abbas attended the Dubai summit.
In October, Macron met with Netanyahu in Israel.
Analysts say Macron’s visits to Dubai and Doha illustrate the difficulty his government faces in finding a way to influence the conflict.
“France and Macron are not really finding their place in this crisis,” said Agnes Levallois, vice-president of the Institute for Mediterranean Middle East Research and Studies.”
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2023/dec/03/israel-hamas-war-live-israeli-attacks-on-gaza-continue-overnight-macron-warns-israels-plan-to-eliminate-hamas-risks-decade-of-war
At least the UK is not alone in its cringeworthy delusions of post-imperial importance0 -
Associating SKS with Mrs Thatcher, whom half the country hated even as the other half loved her, is a special kind of Mandelsonian stupidity, especially when SKS needs the votes of the first group. And do you know where Mrs Thatcher is most hated, and where Labour most needs votes to defeat the Scottish National Party?TOPPING said:
We have grey politicians right now. Because we wanted them after a period of lunatics.Foxy said:
Going on about Thatcher for either good or bad just typifies how backward looking our country can be. Revisiting the history of 40 years ago when the economics and challenges of today are very different is just pointless.DecrepiterJohnL said:
Yeah because sucking up to Mrs Thatcher really boosted Gordon Brown. Not. FFS stop listening to Peter bloody Mandelson. He was wrong then; he is wrong now.Theuniondivvie said:The quest to find the clitoris of the English electorate is unending.
Trying to associate oneself with a non-grey, charismatic leader is a classic grey man ploy.4 -
You are missing the politics of it. She was voted into power several times and enacted policies she said she was going to enact. "Hated" is language from the JCR. Most people will acknowledge a principled politician and a woman leader at a time when there weren't many around.DecrepiterJohnL said:
Associating SKS with Mrs Thatcher, whom half the country hated even as the other half loved her, is a special kind of Mandelsonian stupidity, especially when SKS needs the votes of the first group. And do you know where Mrs Thatcher is most hated, and where Labour most needs votes to defeat the Scottish National Party?TOPPING said:
We have grey politicians right now. Because we wanted them after a period of lunatics.Foxy said:
Going on about Thatcher for either good or bad just typifies how backward looking our country can be. Revisiting the history of 40 years ago when the economics and challenges of today are very different is just pointless.DecrepiterJohnL said:
Yeah because sucking up to Mrs Thatcher really boosted Gordon Brown. Not. FFS stop listening to Peter bloody Mandelson. He was wrong then; he is wrong now.Theuniondivvie said:The quest to find the clitoris of the English electorate is unending.
Trying to associate oneself with a non-grey, charismatic leader is a classic grey man ploy.1 -
A sensible point to consider is that she managed to move The System to a new equilibrium point.Foxy said:
Going on about Thatcher for either good or bad just typifies how backward looking our country can be. Revisiting the history of 40 years ago when the economics and challenges of today are very different is just pointless.DecrepiterJohnL said:
Yeah because sucking up to Mrs Thatcher really boosted Gordon Brown. Not. FFS stop listening to Peter bloody Mandelson. He was wrong then; he is wrong now.Theuniondivvie said:The quest to find the clitoris of the English electorate is unending.
Getting environmental concerns embedded into the structure of government, for example. To read the minutes of civil servants sneering about acid rain mitigation….
Even if you don’t like the policies, it is worth considering how you create long lasting change.1 -
Completely snowed in now. Cannot open front door. Managed to open back door and collect wood for fire. It is quite beautiful outside. There is a magical stillness in a snow covered landscape.
Fortunately the main road nearby seems to have been cleared. So at least we can walk to the town, even it will take an hour or so.
Anyway, this article is well worth reading.
https://www.thenational.scot/politics/23964156.questions-remain-scottish-handling-post-office-horizon-scandal/
It makes 3 important points:-
1. Scotland does not have the same rebuttable presumption that computer evidence is reliable unless the defendant proves otherwise.
2. Scottish prosecutors had doubts about Horizon evidence and did not therefore prosecute.
3. The Post Office in Scotland could not run its own prosecutions so there was some independent review - and attempt to comply with the rules - of the type so dismally lacking in England & Wales.
Bluntly the PO was not able to subvert the Scottish criminal justice system in the way that it did elsewhere. Though the evidence in recent days suggests that the PO did try to by trying to bully Scottish prosecutors.
It makes Ministers' refusal to look again at the computer evidence presumption even more unconscionable than it is.
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Labour needs votes, not acknowledgement. It is you, Starmer and Mandelson who have the politics wrong. And take your JCR sneer and shove it up your google search for Thatcher Loved and Hated or some such.TOPPING said:
You are missing the politics of it. She was voted into power several times and enacted policies she said she was going to enact. "Hated" is language from the JCR. Most people will acknowledge a principled politician and a woman leader at a time when there weren't many around.DecrepiterJohnL said:
Associating SKS with Mrs Thatcher, whom half the country hated even as the other half loved her, is a special kind of Mandelsonian stupidity, especially when SKS needs the votes of the first group. And do you know where Mrs Thatcher is most hated, and where Labour most needs votes to defeat the Scottish National Party?TOPPING said:
We have grey politicians right now. Because we wanted them after a period of lunatics.Foxy said:
Going on about Thatcher for either good or bad just typifies how backward looking our country can be. Revisiting the history of 40 years ago when the economics and challenges of today are very different is just pointless.DecrepiterJohnL said:
Yeah because sucking up to Mrs Thatcher really boosted Gordon Brown. Not. FFS stop listening to Peter bloody Mandelson. He was wrong then; he is wrong now.Theuniondivvie said:The quest to find the clitoris of the English electorate is unending.
Trying to associate oneself with a non-grey, charismatic leader is a classic grey man ploy.1 -
Russia and Stalin.Leon said:
Thatcher was the greatest peacetime prime minister in the modern era, by a distance - to my mind - but even I agree it is quite odd how everyone references her 4 decades laterFoxy said:
Going on about Thatcher for either good or bad just typifies how backward looking our country can be. Revisiting the history of 40 years ago when the economics and challenges of today are very different is just pointless.DecrepiterJohnL said:
Yeah because sucking up to Mrs Thatcher really boosted Gordon Brown. Not. FFS stop listening to Peter bloody Mandelson. He was wrong then; he is wrong now.Theuniondivvie said:The quest to find the clitoris of the English electorate is unending.
Is there any other other major democracy so obsessed with such an historically distant politician?
I can’t think of one. Not Reagan or Clinton. Not Schroeder or kohl. Not Mitterrand or giscard
Thatcher seems unique. She is also hero worshipped by the right in the USA, no other UK politician (with the obvious exception of Churchill) merits a passing glance
Despite its disinterested voters, it is still a democracy. Just not one you'd want to live in.0 -
I have always felt that part of the US love affair with Thatcher stems from the 1st Gulf War. The US, even nearly 20 years on, was still suffering from doubts after Vietnam. However, with remarkably bad timing for him, Saddam invaded Kuwait whilst MT was visiting the US. She was widely credited at the time with the initial robustness of the Bush response - and keeping him on track when the crunches came, e.g. the "No time to go wobbly" phone call.Leon said:
Thatcher was the greatest peacetime prime minister in the modern era, by a distance - to my mind - but even I agree it is quite odd how everyone references her 4 decades laterFoxy said:
Going on about Thatcher for either good or bad just typifies how backward looking our country can be. Revisiting the history of 40 years ago when the economics and challenges of today are very different is just pointless.DecrepiterJohnL said:
Yeah because sucking up to Mrs Thatcher really boosted Gordon Brown. Not. FFS stop listening to Peter bloody Mandelson. He was wrong then; he is wrong now.Theuniondivvie said:The quest to find the clitoris of the English electorate is unending.
Is there any other other major democracy so obsessed with such an historically distant politician?
I can’t think of one. Not Reagan or Clinton. Not Schroeder or kohl. Not Mitterrand or giscard
Thatcher seems unique. She is also hero worshipped by the right in the USA, no other UK politician (with the obvious exception of Churchill) merits a passing glance
Trump might keep claiming to Make America Great Again but, in a very real sense Thatcher contributed to that 30 years ago and many still recall that time.2 -
Checkbox metrics are not good, being inherently subjective.Leon said:
I have a mild knife obsessionTOPPING said:
I never had you down as a rustle something up oh where's the asafoetida kind of guy.Leon said:
Lovely knivesboulay said:
Had the weird experience of thinking about you yesterday at a birthday lunch. I didn’t know your favourite knife-makers made knives for dining purposes but they were every bit as sharp as their fold up fun knives.Leon said:
He suddenly looks like he’s wearing a weird multicoloured toupeeTheuniondivvie said:The quest to find the clitoris of the English electorate is unending.
Tho technically my favourite knives are these
Wolf and Dingo. Hand forged on Bodmin Moor. I have three. Superb
https://www.atkinson-art.co.uk/product-category/wolf-dingo-chef-knives-for-valhalla/
Only problem is they are 25 times the price of Opinel
Coincidentally I am reading a book about forensic psychiatry and “an obsession with knives” is one of the top 20 primary indicators of psychopathy
I also tick several other boxes. Odd sensation0 -
In net favourability terms Haley may be slightly better but in actual favourability terms she trails even DeSantis, as well as Biden and Trump.
She doesn't have the core supporters she needs it seems that Trump does to win the Republican primaries and caucuses. Even if she did Trump would almost certainly run as an Independent anyway, handing re election to Biden on a plate under the US FPTP EC system0 -
If Keir actually admired Thatcher he wouldn't be in the bloody Labour Party. All he is doing is annoying his own members, and demonstrating to every right thinking person that he's no better than the rest of political class.2
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Not an obsession, but I too love pocket knives and similar. I think it stems from a childhood spent camping.Leon said:
I have a mild knife obsessionTOPPING said:
I never had you down as a rustle something up oh where's the asafoetida kind of guy.Leon said:
Lovely knivesboulay said:
Had the weird experience of thinking about you yesterday at a birthday lunch. I didn’t know your favourite knife-makers made knives for dining purposes but they were every bit as sharp as their fold up fun knives.Leon said:
He suddenly looks like he’s wearing a weird multicoloured toupeeTheuniondivvie said:The quest to find the clitoris of the English electorate is unending.
Tho technically my favourite knives are these
Wolf and Dingo. Hand forged on Bodmin Moor. I have three. Superb
https://www.atkinson-art.co.uk/product-category/wolf-dingo-chef-knives-for-valhalla/
Only problem is they are 25 times the price of Opinel
Coincidentally I am reading a book about forensic psychiatry and “an obsession with knives” is one of the top 20 primary indicators of psychopathy
I also tick several other boxes. Odd sensation
I have a beautiful Laguiole corkscrew that I simply love to handle too.
My most evil knife is my sailors knife, designed for cutting ropes in an emergency, which I keep on a cord in my buoyancy aid.0 -
His target is Tory 2019 voters in marginal seats not Labour core voters. Even Brown invited Thatcher to teaglw said:If Keir actually admired Thatcher he wouldn't be in the bloody Labour Party. All he is doing is annoying his own members, and demonstrating to every right thinking person that he's no better than the rest of political class.
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...0
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Will Mellor, Toby Jones and Monica Dolan in new ITV drama on Post Office scandalCyclefree said:Completely snowed in now. Cannot open front door. Managed to open back door and collect wood for fire. It is quite beautiful outside. There is a magical stillness in a snow covered landscape.
Fortunately the main road nearby seems to have been cleared. So at least we can walk to the town, even it will take an hour or so.
Anyway, this article is well worth reading.
https://www.thenational.scot/politics/23964156.questions-remain-scottish-handling-post-office-horizon-scandal/
It makes 3 important points:-
1. Scotland does not have the same rebuttable presumption that computer evidence is reliable unless the defendant proves otherwise.
2. Scottish prosecutors had doubts about Horizon evidence and did not therefore prosecute.
3. The Post Office in Scotland could not run its own prosecutions so there was some independent review - and attempt to comply with the rules - of the type so dismally lacking in England & Wales.
Bluntly the PO was not able to subvert the Scottish criminal justice system in the way that it did elsewhere. Though the evidence in recent days suggests that the PO did try to by trying to bully Scottish prosecutors.
It makes Ministers' refusal to look again at the computer evidence presumption even more unconscionable than it is.
"‘You can’t believe it’s true’ - Will Mellor on the frightening real-life story behind Mr Bates vs the Post Office | Virgin Radio UK" https://virginradio.co.uk/entertainment/128150/will-mellor-mr-bates-vs-the-post-office-unbelievable-story
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I know what he thinks he is doing, I just don't believe people will fall for it. "He so admired Thatcher that he joined to the Labour Party in order to do the exact opposite of what she would have done."HYUFD said:
His target is Tory 2019 voters in marginal seats not Labour core voters. Even Brown invited Thatcher to teaglw said:If Keir actually admired Thatcher he wouldn't be in the bloody Labour Party. All he is doing is annoying his own members, and demonstrating to every right thinking person that he's no better than the rest of political class.
I'll be quite surprised if some enterprising journalist hasn't found quotes of Starmer slating Thatcher by lunchtime.1 -
Dame Keiri di Thatchawa.Theuniondivvie said:
Preparing for the big change. No surgery involved I hope.Leon said:
He suddenly looks like he’s wearing a weird multicoloured toupeeTheuniondivvie said:The quest to find the clitoris of the English electorate is unending.
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Leave aside the audience Starmer is writing for... People who Labour could do with winning over, remember?glw said:If Keir actually admired Thatcher he wouldn't be in the bloody Labour Party. All he is doing is annoying his own members, and demonstrating to every right thinking person that he's no better than the rest of political class.
One of the gotcha questions in debates is "what do you respect/admire about your opponent?" It's always dismal when Cox can't think of anything good to say about Box.
And the bottom line is that la Thatch did change things, initially in the face of a not great inheritance. Much of it was disliked, and thoughtful Conservatives ought to admit that some of it planted seeds for our current woes.
But the change was real.0 -
Tactical votes from the Scottish Tories most of whom liked Thatcher?DecrepiterJohnL said:
Associating SKS with Mrs Thatcher, whom half the country hated even as the other half loved her, is a special kind of Mandelsonian stupidity, especially when SKS needs the votes of the first group. And do you know where Mrs Thatcher is most hated, and where Labour most needs votes to defeat the Scottish National Party?TOPPING said:
We have grey politicians right now. Because we wanted them after a period of lunatics.Foxy said:
Going on about Thatcher for either good or bad just typifies how backward looking our country can be. Revisiting the history of 40 years ago when the economics and challenges of today are very different is just pointless.DecrepiterJohnL said:
Yeah because sucking up to Mrs Thatcher really boosted Gordon Brown. Not. FFS stop listening to Peter bloody Mandelson. He was wrong then; he is wrong now.Theuniondivvie said:The quest to find the clitoris of the English electorate is unending.
Trying to associate oneself with a non-grey, charismatic leader is a classic grey man ploy.1 -
I wonder if Thatcher is iconic because she is the primary post WW2 example of a democratic leader who took a country in decline, arrested that decline, and then reversed it (or at least that is the perception)StaffordKnot said:
I have always felt that part of the US love affair with Thatcher stems from the 1st Gulf War. The US, even nearly 20 years on, was still suffering from doubts after Vietnam. However, with remarkably bad timing for him, Saddam invaded Kuwait whilst MT was visiting the US. She was widely credited at the time with the initial robustness of the Bush response - and keeping him on track when the crunches came, e.g. the "No time to go wobbly" phone call.Leon said:
Thatcher was the greatest peacetime prime minister in the modern era, by a distance - to my mind - but even I agree it is quite odd how everyone references her 4 decades laterFoxy said:
Going on about Thatcher for either good or bad just typifies how backward looking our country can be. Revisiting the history of 40 years ago when the economics and challenges of today are very different is just pointless.DecrepiterJohnL said:
Yeah because sucking up to Mrs Thatcher really boosted Gordon Brown. Not. FFS stop listening to Peter bloody Mandelson. He was wrong then; he is wrong now.Theuniondivvie said:The quest to find the clitoris of the English electorate is unending.
Is there any other other major democracy so obsessed with such an historically distant politician?
I can’t think of one. Not Reagan or Clinton. Not Schroeder or kohl. Not Mitterrand or giscard
Thatcher seems unique. She is also hero worshipped by the right in the USA, no other UK politician (with the obvious exception of Churchill) merits a passing glance
Trump might keep claiming to Make America Great Again but, in a very real sense Thatcher contributed to that 30 years ago and many still recall that time.
Now the whole western world is in decline so a Thatcher figure seems even more attractive, to many
A kind of Rex Quondam, Rex Futurae1 -
Yes and inviting Mrs Thatcher to tea did Brown no good, and the voters Labour needs in Scotland, the Red Wall and possibly even the Blue Wall did not vote for Mrs Thatcher. We can see why SKS is doing it but it is likely to be counterproductive for fairly obvious reasons.HYUFD said:
His target is Tory 2019 voters in marginal seats not Labour core voters. Even Brown invited Thatcher to teaglw said:If Keir actually admired Thatcher he wouldn't be in the bloody Labour Party. All he is doing is annoying his own members, and demonstrating to every right thinking person that he's no better than the rest of political class.
1 -
It strikes me as me as also a bit false, annoying his own party members and failing to convince Tories.glw said:If Keir actually admired Thatcher he wouldn't be in the bloody Labour Party. All he is doing is annoying his own members, and demonstrating to every right thinking person that he's no better than the rest of political class.
Starmer has spoken of his time in the Young Socialits youth wing of the Labour Party, and was editor of the hard left "Socialist Alternatives" paper in the late Eighties, so must have campaigned against Thatcherism at every opportunity.
If its merely about achieving change than there are plenty of Labour leaders to cite, from Attlee to Blair.1 -
Delighted albeit surprised to see Ipswich tussling with your team for second tier top spot this Christmas, FoxyFoxy said:
Not an obsession, but I too love pocket knives and similar. I think it stems from a childhood spent camping.Leon said:
I have a mild knife obsessionTOPPING said:
I never had you down as a rustle something up oh where's the asafoetida kind of guy.Leon said:
Lovely knivesboulay said:
Had the weird experience of thinking about you yesterday at a birthday lunch. I didn’t know your favourite knife-makers made knives for dining purposes but they were every bit as sharp as their fold up fun knives.Leon said:
He suddenly looks like he’s wearing a weird multicoloured toupeeTheuniondivvie said:The quest to find the clitoris of the English electorate is unending.
Tho technically my favourite knives are these
Wolf and Dingo. Hand forged on Bodmin Moor. I have three. Superb
https://www.atkinson-art.co.uk/product-category/wolf-dingo-chef-knives-for-valhalla/
Only problem is they are 25 times the price of Opinel
Coincidentally I am reading a book about forensic psychiatry and “an obsession with knives” is one of the top 20 primary indicators of psychopathy
I also tick several other boxes. Odd sensation
I have a beautiful Laguiole corkscrew that I simply love to handle too.
My most evil knife is my sailors knife, designed for cutting ropes in an emergency, which I keep on a cord in my buoyancy aid.1 -
Many people brought meaningful change to the UK. Attlee. Blair. Goering. Change is not the same as good.Theuniondivvie said:The quest to find the clitoris of the English electorate is unending.
3 -
Many thanks - I'd missed it. I'd been wondering what the situation was up here. Were there really no prosecutions in Scotland?Cyclefree said:Completely snowed in now. Cannot open front door. Managed to open back door and collect wood for fire. It is quite beautiful outside. There is a magical stillness in a snow covered landscape.
Fortunately the main road nearby seems to have been cleared. So at least we can walk to the town, even it will take an hour or so.
Anyway, this article is well worth reading.
https://www.thenational.scot/politics/23964156.questions-remain-scottish-handling-post-office-horizon-scandal/
It makes 3 important points:-
1. Scotland does not have the same rebuttable presumption that computer evidence is reliable unless the defendant proves otherwise.
2. Scottish prosecutors had doubts about Horizon evidence and did not therefore prosecute.
3. The Post Office in Scotland could not run its own prosecutions so there was some independent review - and attempt to comply with the rules - of the type so dismally lacking in England & Wales.
Bluntly the PO was not able to subvert the Scottish criminal justice system in the way that it did elsewhere. Though the evidence in recent days suggests that the PO did try to by trying to bully Scottish prosecutors.
It makes Ministers' refusal to look again at the computer evidence presumption even more unconscionable than it is.
Presumably the PF and Crown Office might have had their suspicions - but without looking into it in detail they couldn't be sure. And it would be unfair to expect them to spend the time to do so (which they couldn't, without a case, anyway, which meant a formal complaint from the PO) or to go public - unless, that was, there was an actual case in Scotland and expert witnesses could go to town on the prosecution evidence and the whole laundry-basket could be emptied out in court.
I do wonder however how many Scottish subPMs had to pay the losses the system reportedly magicked out of thin air, and lost their livelihoods on the quiet, even if they did not go to court.
I'm now beginning to wonder just why at least one supermarket I know closed its subPO.
0 -
You heard it here first, ladies and gentlemen.Leon said:
I have a mild knife obsessionTOPPING said:
I never had you down as a rustle something up oh where's the asafoetida kind of guy.Leon said:
Lovely knivesboulay said:
Had the weird experience of thinking about you yesterday at a birthday lunch. I didn’t know your favourite knife-makers made knives for dining purposes but they were every bit as sharp as their fold up fun knives.Leon said:
He suddenly looks like he’s wearing a weird multicoloured toupeeTheuniondivvie said:The quest to find the clitoris of the English electorate is unending.
Tho technically my favourite knives are these
Wolf and Dingo. Hand forged on Bodmin Moor. I have three. Superb
https://www.atkinson-art.co.uk/product-category/wolf-dingo-chef-knives-for-valhalla/
Only problem is they are 25 times the price of Opinel
Coincidentally I am reading a book about forensic psychiatry and “an obsession with knives” is one of the top 20 primary indicators of psychopathy
I also tick several other boxes. Odd sensation2 -
Yes the Boxing Day match away is going to be an interesting one. Fortunately its televised as I will be on the Isle of Wight with Mrs Foxy's family. Ipswich going great at present.DougSeal said:
Delighted albeit surprised to see Ipswich tussling with your team for second tier top spot this Christmas, FoxyFoxy said:
Not an obsession, but I too love pocket knives and similar. I think it stems from a childhood spent camping.Leon said:
I have a mild knife obsessionTOPPING said:
I never had you down as a rustle something up oh where's the asafoetida kind of guy.Leon said:
Lovely knivesboulay said:
Had the weird experience of thinking about you yesterday at a birthday lunch. I didn’t know your favourite knife-makers made knives for dining purposes but they were every bit as sharp as their fold up fun knives.Leon said:
He suddenly looks like he’s wearing a weird multicoloured toupeeTheuniondivvie said:The quest to find the clitoris of the English electorate is unending.
Tho technically my favourite knives are these
Wolf and Dingo. Hand forged on Bodmin Moor. I have three. Superb
https://www.atkinson-art.co.uk/product-category/wolf-dingo-chef-knives-for-valhalla/
Only problem is they are 25 times the price of Opinel
Coincidentally I am reading a book about forensic psychiatry and “an obsession with knives” is one of the top 20 primary indicators of psychopathy
I also tick several other boxes. Odd sensation
I have a beautiful Laguiole corkscrew that I simply love to handle too.
My most evil knife is my sailors knife, designed for cutting ropes in an emergency, which I keep on a cord in my buoyancy aid.
Leicester not playing well but grinding out points, conceding an equaliser at Wednesday on Wednesday night and lucky to get an injury time winner yesterday at WBA.
I think we are clear enough to get promotion but it's tight margins, winning or losing by a single goal. We rarely score freely or concede more than one.
1 -
Indeed, notwithstanding 13 years of New Labour in-between, many of Thatchers Friedman economics chickens are coming home to roost as we speak. Failed privatised utilities and the current housing crisis can be traced back to the 1980s. Her Euroscepticism coupled with her client press boosted reputation unwittingly made her the Godmother of Brexit.viewcode said:
Many people brought meaningful change to the UK. Attlee. Blair. Goering. Change is not the same as good.Theuniondivvie said:The quest to find the clitoris of the English electorate is unending.
4 -
It will absolutely work, for the reasons the posts on here demonstrate this morning.Foxy said:
It strikes me as me as also a bit false, annoying his own party members and failing to convince Tories.glw said:If Keir actually admired Thatcher he wouldn't be in the bloody Labour Party. All he is doing is annoying his own members, and demonstrating to every right thinking person that he's no better than the rest of political class.
Starmer has spoken of his time in the Young Socialits youth wing of the Labour Party, and was editor of the hard left "Socialist Alternatives" paper in the late Eighties, so must have campaigned against Thatcherism at every opportunity.
If its merely about achieving change than there are plenty of Labour leaders to cite, from Attlee to Blair.
His left-wing critics will fear he's sincere and floating voters will want to believe such objectivity is true.
So, it will work.0 -
...but Fatcha? She was hugely divisive and such eulogising makes non -Conservatives of my era want to vote Green or LD. The true flag carriers of the centre- left?Casino_Royale said:
It will absolutely work, for the reasons the posts on here demonstrate this morning.Foxy said:
It strikes me as me as also a bit false, annoying his own party members and failing to convince Tories.glw said:If Keir actually admired Thatcher he wouldn't be in the bloody Labour Party. All he is doing is annoying his own members, and demonstrating to every right thinking person that he's no better than the rest of political class.
Starmer has spoken of his time in the Young Socialits youth wing of the Labour Party, and was editor of the hard left "Socialist Alternatives" paper in the late Eighties, so must have campaigned against Thatcherism at every opportunity.
If its merely about achieving change than there are plenty of Labour leaders to cite, from Attlee to Blair.
His left-wing critics will fear he's sincere and floating voters will want to believe such objectivity is true.
So, it will work.0 -
He mentioned Attlee and Blair tooviewcode said:
Many people brought meaningful change to the UK. Attlee. Blair. Goering. Change is not the same as good.Theuniondivvie said:The quest to find the clitoris of the English electorate is unending.
0 -
What about Goering?HYUFD said:
He mentioned Attlee and Blair tooviewcode said:
Many people brought meaningful change to the UK. Attlee. Blair. Goering. Change is not the same as good.Theuniondivvie said:The quest to find the clitoris of the English electorate is unending.
0 -
Brown won a comfortable majority in Scotland in 2010 and got a hung parliament in the UK overall.DecrepiterJohnL said:
Yes and inviting Mrs Thatcher to tea did Brown no good, and the voters Labour needs in Scotland, the Red Wall and possibly even the Blue Wall did not vote for Mrs Thatcher. We can see why SKS is doing it but it is likely to be counterproductive for fairly obvious reasons.HYUFD said:
His target is Tory 2019 voters in marginal seats not Labour core voters. Even Brown invited Thatcher to teaglw said:If Keir actually admired Thatcher he wouldn't be in the bloody Labour Party. All he is doing is annoying his own members, and demonstrating to every right thinking person that he's no better than the rest of political class.
Most of the marginal seats though that did switch from Labour to Conservative in 2010 and have voted Tory since did vote for Thatcher as did some of the redwall seats and all the bluewall seats1 -
Deregulation of the City and handing the economy over to financial speculators hasn't been an unequivocal long term success either.Mexicanpete said:
Indeed, notwithstanding 13 years of New Labour in-between, many of Thatchers Friedman economics chickens are coming home to roost as we speak. Failed privatised utilities and the current housing crisis can be traced back to the 1980s. Her Euroscepticism coupled with her client press boosted reputation unwittingly made her the Godmother of Brexit.viewcode said:
Many people brought meaningful change to the UK. Attlee. Blair. Goering. Change is not the same as good.Theuniondivvie said:The quest to find the clitoris of the English electorate is unending.
Without North Sea oil nor "selling off the family silver" by privatisations, Thatcherism style remodeling of the country is no longer possible, even if the challenges weren't so different.7 -
“the Godmother of Brexit.”Mexicanpete said:
Indeed, notwithstanding 13 years of New Labour in-between, many of Thatchers Friedman economics chickens are coming home to roost as we speak. Failed privatised utilities and the current housing crisis can be traced back to the 1980s. Her Euroscepticism coupled with her client press boosted reputation unwittingly made her the Godmother of Brexit.viewcode said:
Many people brought meaningful change to the UK. Attlee. Blair. Goering. Change is not the same as good.Theuniondivvie said:The quest to find the clitoris of the English electorate is unending.
You say that like it’s a bad thing0 -
I don't know the answer to your first question. The key point is that Scots law required corroboration and there was no such evidence.Carnyx said:
Many thanks - I'd missed it. I'd been wondering what the situation was up here. Were there really no prosecutions in Scotland?Cyclefree said:Completely snowed in now. Cannot open front door. Managed to open back door and collect wood for fire. It is quite beautiful outside. There is a magical stillness in a snow covered landscape.
Fortunately the main road nearby seems to have been cleared. So at least we can walk to the town, even it will take an hour or so.
Anyway, this article is well worth reading.
https://www.thenational.scot/politics/23964156.questions-remain-scottish-handling-post-office-horizon-scandal/
It makes 3 important points:-
1. Scotland does not have the same rebuttable presumption that computer evidence is reliable unless the defendant proves otherwise.
2. Scottish prosecutors had doubts about Horizon evidence and did not therefore prosecute.
3. The Post Office in Scotland could not run its own prosecutions so there was some independent review - and attempt to comply with the rules - of the type so dismally lacking in England & Wales.
Bluntly the PO was not able to subvert the Scottish criminal justice system in the way that it did elsewhere. Though the evidence in recent days suggests that the PO did try to by trying to bully Scottish prosecutors.
It makes Ministers' refusal to look again at the computer evidence presumption even more unconscionable than it is.
Presumably the PF and Crown Office might have had their suspicions - but without looking into it in detail they couldn't be sure. And it would be unfair to expect them to spend the time to do so (which they couldn't, without a case, anyway, which meant a formal complaint from the PO) or to go public - unless, that was, there was an actual case in Scotland and expert witnesses could go to town on the prosecution evidence and the whole laundry-basket could be emptied out in court.
I do wonder however how many Scottish subPMs had to pay the losses the system reportedly magicked out of thin air, and lost their livelihoods on the quiet, even if they did not go to court.
I'm now beginning to wonder just why at least one supermarket I know closed its subPO.
But you make an important point which is often overlooked: many SPMs were pursued for the money but not prosecuted. So the injustice goes wider than the prosecutions - all the debt recovery proceedings are also fundamentally flawed. And all the monies SPMs paid out of their own pockets to resolve discrepancies were obtained under false pretences.
Basically nothing the PO legal department did in relation to the SPM - whether civil or criminal - from 2000 onwards - can be relied on.
I wouldn't rely on anything they say or do now, frankly, given the ongoing disclosure failings. The entire legal and investigative function at the PO is discredited.
One of the PO investigation managers who recently gave evidence is now an internal investigator at Sellafield, which is a tad worrying. She boasts about her time at the PO on her LinkedIn page which shows an alarming lack of awareness.1 -
You keep telling me it's going well. Who am I to question a recently self- diagnosed psychopath?Leon said:
“the Godmother of Brexit.”Mexicanpete said:
Indeed, notwithstanding 13 years of New Labour in-between, many of Thatchers Friedman economics chickens are coming home to roost as we speak. Failed privatised utilities and the current housing crisis can be traced back to the 1980s. Her Euroscepticism coupled with her client press boosted reputation unwittingly made her the Godmother of Brexit.viewcode said:
Many people brought meaningful change to the UK. Attlee. Blair. Goering. Change is not the same as good.Theuniondivvie said:The quest to find the clitoris of the English electorate is unending.
You say that like it’s a bad thing3 -
Yes, Nikki Haley, even as piece of radical woke lefty progressive vermin I say go go go. Beat Trump, tame MAGA, then whup Joe and break that infernal Glass Ceiling!0
-
That's a second-term thingMexicanpete said:
What about Goering?HYUFD said:
He mentioned Attlee and Blair tooviewcode said:
Many people brought meaningful change to the UK. Attlee. Blair. Goering. Change is not the same as good.Theuniondivvie said:The quest to find the clitoris of the English electorate is unending.
3 -
And such knee-jerk reactions explain exactly why SKS is doing it.Mexicanpete said:
...but Fatcha? She was hugely divisive and such eulogising makes non -Conservatives of my era want to vote Green or LD. The true flag carriers of the centre- left?Casino_Royale said:
It will absolutely work, for the reasons the posts on here demonstrate this morning.Foxy said:
It strikes me as me as also a bit false, annoying his own party members and failing to convince Tories.glw said:If Keir actually admired Thatcher he wouldn't be in the bloody Labour Party. All he is doing is annoying his own members, and demonstrating to every right thinking person that he's no better than the rest of political class.
Starmer has spoken of his time in the Young Socialits youth wing of the Labour Party, and was editor of the hard left "Socialist Alternatives" paper in the late Eighties, so must have campaigned against Thatcherism at every opportunity.
If its merely about achieving change than there are plenty of Labour leaders to cite, from Attlee to Blair.
His left-wing critics will fear he's sincere and floating voters will want to believe such objectivity is true.
So, it will work.
You will whine like a mule but still vote Labour in the GE.
You are one of his useful idiots.1 -
Particularly one carrying a knife...Mexicanpete said:
You keep telling me it's going well. Who am I to question a recently self- diagnosed psychopath?Leon said:
“the Godmother of Brexit.”Mexicanpete said:
Indeed, notwithstanding 13 years of New Labour in-between, many of Thatchers Friedman economics chickens are coming home to roost as we speak. Failed privatised utilities and the current housing crisis can be traced back to the 1980s. Her Euroscepticism coupled with her client press boosted reputation unwittingly made her the Godmother of Brexit.viewcode said:
Many people brought meaningful change to the UK. Attlee. Blair. Goering. Change is not the same as good.Theuniondivvie said:The quest to find the clitoris of the English electorate is unending.
You say that like it’s a bad thing1 -
In tune with the current view of the people, then.Leon said:
“the Godmother of Brexit.”Mexicanpete said:
Indeed, notwithstanding 13 years of New Labour in-between, many of Thatchers Friedman economics chickens are coming home to roost as we speak. Failed privatised utilities and the current housing crisis can be traced back to the 1980s. Her Euroscepticism coupled with her client press boosted reputation unwittingly made her the Godmother of Brexit.viewcode said:
Many people brought meaningful change to the UK. Attlee. Blair. Goering. Change is not the same as good.Theuniondivvie said:The quest to find the clitoris of the English electorate is unending.
You say that like it’s a bad thing1 -
But she followed The Process. Which grants absolution and indeed entry* to Kingdom Of Heaven.Cyclefree said:
I don't know the answer to your first question. The key point is that Scots law required corroboration and there was no such evidence.Carnyx said:
Many thanks - I'd missed it. I'd been wondering what the situation was up here. Were there really no prosecutions in Scotland?Cyclefree said:Completely snowed in now. Cannot open front door. Managed to open back door and collect wood for fire. It is quite beautiful outside. There is a magical stillness in a snow covered landscape.
Fortunately the main road nearby seems to have been cleared. So at least we can walk to the town, even it will take an hour or so.
Anyway, this article is well worth reading.
https://www.thenational.scot/politics/23964156.questions-remain-scottish-handling-post-office-horizon-scandal/
It makes 3 important points:-
1. Scotland does not have the same rebuttable presumption that computer evidence is reliable unless the defendant proves otherwise.
2. Scottish prosecutors had doubts about Horizon evidence and did not therefore prosecute.
3. The Post Office in Scotland could not run its own prosecutions so there was some independent review - and attempt to comply with the rules - of the type so dismally lacking in England & Wales.
Bluntly the PO was not able to subvert the Scottish criminal justice system in the way that it did elsewhere. Though the evidence in recent days suggests that the PO did try to by trying to bully Scottish prosecutors.
It makes Ministers' refusal to look again at the computer evidence presumption even more unconscionable than it is.
Presumably the PF and Crown Office might have had their suspicions - but without looking into it in detail they couldn't be sure. And it would be unfair to expect them to spend the time to do so (which they couldn't, without a case, anyway, which meant a formal complaint from the PO) or to go public - unless, that was, there was an actual case in Scotland and expert witnesses could go to town on the prosecution evidence and the whole laundry-basket could be emptied out in court.
I do wonder however how many Scottish subPMs had to pay the losses the system reportedly magicked out of thin air, and lost their livelihoods on the quiet, even if they did not go to court.
I'm now beginning to wonder just why at least one supermarket I know closed its subPO.
But you make an important point which is often overlooked: many SPMs were pursued for the money but not prosecuted. So the injustice goes wider than the prosecutions - all the debt recovery proceedings are also fundamentally flawed. And all the monies SPMs paid out of their own pockets to resolve discrepancies were obtained under false pretences.
Basically nothing the PO legal department did in relation to the SPM - whether civil or criminal - from 2000 onwards - can be relied on.
I wouldn't rely on anything they say or do now, frankly, given the ongoing disclosure failings. The entire legal and investigative function at the PO is discredited.
One of the PO investigation managers who recently gave evidence is now an internal investigator at Sellafield, which is a tad worrying. She boasts about her time at the PO on her LinkedIn page which shows an alarming lack of awareness.
*the Premium Business Class Lounge, no less.1 -
It will not be counterproductive. It's carefully psephologically calculated.DecrepiterJohnL said:
Yes and inviting Mrs Thatcher to tea did Brown no good, and the voters Labour needs in Scotland, the Red Wall and possibly even the Blue Wall did not vote for Mrs Thatcher. We can see why SKS is doing it but it is likely to be counterproductive for fairly obvious reasons.HYUFD said:
His target is Tory 2019 voters in marginal seats not Labour core voters. Even Brown invited Thatcher to teaglw said:If Keir actually admired Thatcher he wouldn't be in the bloody Labour Party. All he is doing is annoying his own members, and demonstrating to every right thinking person that he's no better than the rest of political class.
You have to remember that before you ever see any public move like this it's been carefully polled, focus-grouped and tested for months.1 -
Must be a bit alarming for your patients.Foxy said:
Not an obsession, but I too love pocket knives and similar. I think it stems from a childhood spent camping.Leon said:
I have a mild knife obsessionTOPPING said:
I never had you down as a rustle something up oh where's the asafoetida kind of guy.Leon said:
Lovely knivesboulay said:
Had the weird experience of thinking about you yesterday at a birthday lunch. I didn’t know your favourite knife-makers made knives for dining purposes but they were every bit as sharp as their fold up fun knives.Leon said:
He suddenly looks like he’s wearing a weird multicoloured toupeeTheuniondivvie said:The quest to find the clitoris of the English electorate is unending.
Tho technically my favourite knives are these
Wolf and Dingo. Hand forged on Bodmin Moor. I have three. Superb
https://www.atkinson-art.co.uk/product-category/wolf-dingo-chef-knives-for-valhalla/
Only problem is they are 25 times the price of Opinel
Coincidentally I am reading a book about forensic psychiatry and “an obsession with knives” is one of the top 20 primary indicators of psychopathy
I also tick several other boxes. Odd sensation
I have a beautiful Laguiole corkscrew that I simply love to handle too.
My most evil knife is my sailors knife, designed for cutting ropes in an emergency, which I keep on a cord in my buoyancy aid.1 -
No one has ever before accused me of being "useful"!Casino_Royale said:
And such knee-jerk reactions explain exactly why SKS is doing it.Mexicanpete said:
...but Fatcha? She was hugely divisive and such eulogising makes non -Conservatives of my era want to vote Green or LD. The true flag carriers of the centre- left?Casino_Royale said:
It will absolutely work, for the reasons the posts on here demonstrate this morning.Foxy said:
It strikes me as me as also a bit false, annoying his own party members and failing to convince Tories.glw said:If Keir actually admired Thatcher he wouldn't be in the bloody Labour Party. All he is doing is annoying his own members, and demonstrating to every right thinking person that he's no better than the rest of political class.
Starmer has spoken of his time in the Young Socialits youth wing of the Labour Party, and was editor of the hard left "Socialist Alternatives" paper in the late Eighties, so must have campaigned against Thatcherism at every opportunity.
If its merely about achieving change than there are plenty of Labour leaders to cite, from Attlee to Blair.
His left-wing critics will fear he's sincere and floating voters will want to believe such objectivity is true.
So, it will work.
You will whine like a mule but still vote Labour in the GE.
You are one of his useful idiots.3 -
You might have a point in his second term BTW, as I said the other day I expect his left flank to crumble quickly, but not until the Tories are safely out.Mexicanpete said:
No one has ever before accused me of being "useful"!Casino_Royale said:
And such knee-jerk reactions explain exactly why SKS is doing it.Mexicanpete said:
...but Fatcha? She was hugely divisive and such eulogising makes non -Conservatives of my era want to vote Green or LD. The true flag carriers of the centre- left?Casino_Royale said:
It will absolutely work, for the reasons the posts on here demonstrate this morning.Foxy said:
It strikes me as me as also a bit false, annoying his own party members and failing to convince Tories.glw said:If Keir actually admired Thatcher he wouldn't be in the bloody Labour Party. All he is doing is annoying his own members, and demonstrating to every right thinking person that he's no better than the rest of political class.
Starmer has spoken of his time in the Young Socialits youth wing of the Labour Party, and was editor of the hard left "Socialist Alternatives" paper in the late Eighties, so must have campaigned against Thatcherism at every opportunity.
If its merely about achieving change than there are plenty of Labour leaders to cite, from Attlee to Blair.
His left-wing critics will fear he's sincere and floating voters will want to believe such objectivity is true.
So, it will work.
You will whine like a mule but still vote Labour in the GE.
You are one of his useful idiots.1 -
Some of my colleagues make a good living out of sticking knives into people!Theuniondivvie said:
Must be a bit alarming for your patients.Foxy said:
Not an obsession, but I too love pocket knives and similar. I think it stems from a childhood spent camping.Leon said:
I have a mild knife obsessionTOPPING said:
I never had you down as a rustle something up oh where's the asafoetida kind of guy.Leon said:
Lovely knivesboulay said:
Had the weird experience of thinking about you yesterday at a birthday lunch. I didn’t know your favourite knife-makers made knives for dining purposes but they were every bit as sharp as their fold up fun knives.Leon said:
He suddenly looks like he’s wearing a weird multicoloured toupeeTheuniondivvie said:The quest to find the clitoris of the English electorate is unending.
Tho technically my favourite knives are these
Wolf and Dingo. Hand forged on Bodmin Moor. I have three. Superb
https://www.atkinson-art.co.uk/product-category/wolf-dingo-chef-knives-for-valhalla/
Only problem is they are 25 times the price of Opinel
Coincidentally I am reading a book about forensic psychiatry and “an obsession with knives” is one of the top 20 primary indicators of psychopathy
I also tick several other boxes. Odd sensation
I have a beautiful Laguiole corkscrew that I simply love to handle too.
My most evil knife is my sailors knife, designed for cutting ropes in an emergency, which I keep on a cord in my buoyancy aid.0 -
...
Primary and tertiary industrial policy too. All but gone.Foxy said:
Deregulation of the City and handing the economy over to financial speculators hasn't been an unequivocal long term success either.Mexicanpete said:
Indeed, notwithstanding 13 years of New Labour in-between, many of Thatchers Friedman economics chickens are coming home to roost as we speak. Failed privatised utilities and the current housing crisis can be traced back to the 1980s. Her Euroscepticism coupled with her client press boosted reputation unwittingly made her the Godmother of Brexit.viewcode said:
Many people brought meaningful change to the UK. Attlee. Blair. Goering. Change is not the same as good.Theuniondivvie said:The quest to find the clitoris of the English electorate is unending.
Without North Sea oil nor "selling off the family silver" by privatisations, Thatcherism style remodeling of the country is no longer possible, even if the challenges weren't so different.0 -
Is a psychopathic fear of being thought 'normal' one of the boxes?Leon said:
I have a mild knife obsessionTOPPING said:
I never had you down as a rustle something up oh where's the asafoetida kind of guy.Leon said:
Lovely knivesboulay said:
Had the weird experience of thinking about you yesterday at a birthday lunch. I didn’t know your favourite knife-makers made knives for dining purposes but they were every bit as sharp as their fold up fun knives.Leon said:
He suddenly looks like he’s wearing a weird multicoloured toupeeTheuniondivvie said:The quest to find the clitoris of the English electorate is unending.
Tho technically my favourite knives are these
Wolf and Dingo. Hand forged on Bodmin Moor. I have three. Superb
https://www.atkinson-art.co.uk/product-category/wolf-dingo-chef-knives-for-valhalla/
Only problem is they are 25 times the price of Opinel
Coincidentally I am reading a book about forensic psychiatry and “an obsession with knives” is one of the top 20 primary indicators of psychopathy
I also tick several other boxes. Odd sensation1 -
Not really as Trump would go Independent and hand Biden re electionFoxy said:
She certainly is the best chance to break the prospect of Trump vs Biden 2: Battle of the Zombies.kinabalu said:Yes, Nikki Haley, even as piece of radical woke lefty progressive vermin I say go go go. Beat Trump, tame MAGA, then whup Joe and break that infernal Glass Ceiling!
0 -
Nope. We never did much AAR in the Sea Harrier because we didn't have any tankers and the jet wouldn't turn to port with the probe on - typically considered not ideal for a combat aircraft.Nigelb said:This ever happen to DA ?
https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1731114544205078713
Did loads of prodding in the F-14 but the probe, like every other part of the aircraft, was built tough.
I have seen it happen from inside a KC-130 though. The HH-60 driver said he'd mail the receptacle back to them once he had RTBed.1 -
The Greens maybe, the LDs actually were in government with the ToriesMexicanpete said:
...but Fatcha? She was hugely divisive and such eulogising makes non -Conservatives of my era want to vote Green or LD. The true flag carriers of the centre- left?Casino_Royale said:
It will absolutely work, for the reasons the posts on here demonstrate this morning.Foxy said:
It strikes me as me as also a bit false, annoying his own party members and failing to convince Tories.glw said:If Keir actually admired Thatcher he wouldn't be in the bloody Labour Party. All he is doing is annoying his own members, and demonstrating to every right thinking person that he's no better than the rest of political class.
Starmer has spoken of his time in the Young Socialits youth wing of the Labour Party, and was editor of the hard left "Socialist Alternatives" paper in the late Eighties, so must have campaigned against Thatcherism at every opportunity.
If its merely about achieving change than there are plenty of Labour leaders to cite, from Attlee to Blair.
His left-wing critics will fear he's sincere and floating voters will want to believe such objectivity is true.
So, it will work.1 -
By Mandelson, the electoral genius who got Neil Kinnock stuffed in 1992.Casino_Royale said:
It will not be counterproductive. It's carefully psephologically calculated.DecrepiterJohnL said:
Yes and inviting Mrs Thatcher to tea did Brown no good, and the voters Labour needs in Scotland, the Red Wall and possibly even the Blue Wall did not vote for Mrs Thatcher. We can see why SKS is doing it but it is likely to be counterproductive for fairly obvious reasons.HYUFD said:
His target is Tory 2019 voters in marginal seats not Labour core voters. Even Brown invited Thatcher to teaglw said:If Keir actually admired Thatcher he wouldn't be in the bloody Labour Party. All he is doing is annoying his own members, and demonstrating to every right thinking person that he's no better than the rest of political class.
You have to remember that before you ever see any public move like this it's been carefully polled, focus-grouped and tested for months.0 -
For connoisseurs of lefty hypocrisy:
https://www.cop28accommodationdubai.com/charter-private-jet-to-cop28-dubai/
I particularly love the first line on that page:
"If you’re looking to charter a private jet to COP28 in Dubai, we can help organize this and more." As if it's the most obvious and natural thing in the world.
Also:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/oliverwilliams1/2021/11/05/118-private-jets-take-leaders-to-cop26-climate-summit-burning-over-1000-tons-of-co2/?sh=289865c653d90 -
On topic: no, she couldn't. Trump is the only Republican that could stop Trump. If Trump does stop Trump, Haley could then win.
Trump's favourability among Democrats is of supreme unimportance in the primaries, and his favourability among independents only of marginal consequence.
What matters is Trump's favourability among the relatively small proportion of the US population who will vote in the Republican primaries - and that's hugely positive.
Plus, there is clearly the pro-Trump and anti-Trump Republican vote. For now, the pro-Trump vote is not only larger than the anti-Trump vote but the pro-Trump vote is united and the anti-Trump one hopelessly divided. Generally, any candidate getting 30% in New Hampshire will be on for a comfortable win. Trump will probably get double that and the rest will be scrambling for scraps. Haley should (has to) do a lot better than that in South Carolina but even a comfortable second would be deeply inadequate to propel her into a position where she could defeat Trump at the ballot box; for that she'd need a convincing win, backed up by other wins outside her home state. And that ain't happening.6 -
I'm not sure that's lefty hypocrisy, given that the three people cited in the second article as availing themselves of a private jet are Jeff Bezos, Prince (?) Charles and Boris Johnson. Righty hypocrisy?Fishing said:For connoisseurs of lefty hypocrisy:
https://www.cop28accommodationdubai.com/charter-private-jet-to-cop28-dubai/
I particularly love the first line on that page:
"If you’re looking to charter a private jet to COP28 in Dubai, we can help organize this and more."
Also:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/oliverwilliams1/2021/11/05/118-private-jets-take-leaders-to-cop26-climate-summit-burning-over-1000-tons-of-co2/?sh=289865c653d95 -
I think you're too hysterical to be a psychopath.Leon said:
I have a mild knife obsessionTOPPING said:
I never had you down as a rustle something up oh where's the asafoetida kind of guy.Leon said:
Lovely knivesboulay said:
Had the weird experience of thinking about you yesterday at a birthday lunch. I didn’t know your favourite knife-makers made knives for dining purposes but they were every bit as sharp as their fold up fun knives.Leon said:
He suddenly looks like he’s wearing a weird multicoloured toupeeTheuniondivvie said:The quest to find the clitoris of the English electorate is unending.
Tho technically my favourite knives are these
Wolf and Dingo. Hand forged on Bodmin Moor. I have three. Superb
https://www.atkinson-art.co.uk/product-category/wolf-dingo-chef-knives-for-valhalla/
Only problem is they are 25 times the price of Opinel
Coincidentally I am reading a book about forensic psychiatry and “an obsession with knives” is one of the top 20 primary indicators of psychopathy
I also tick several other boxes. Odd sensation1 -
He couldn't.HYUFD said:
Not really as Trump would go Independent and hand Biden re electionFoxy said:
She certainly is the best chance to break the prospect of Trump vs Biden 2: Battle of the Zombies.kinabalu said:Yes, Nikki Haley, even as piece of radical woke lefty progressive vermin I say go go go. Beat Trump, tame MAGA, then whup Joe and break that infernal Glass Ceiling!
I'll keep making this point: understand the bloody rules.
There are legal impediments in place to prevent sore-loser candidacies - filing deadlines, restrictions on running under different flags in the same election, and so on, in enough states as to fatally hobble any serious candidate attempting it. Citing 1912 as a precedent (or even 1980) is pointless if it can't be done under current rules.
And yes, those rules could be changed but only with the support of the various state officials - and would they really be willing to do that, against the interests of their own party in many cases, for a candidate who had just *lost* in the popular vote?
More realistically, if Trump actually lost, he'd launch a legal blizzard of cases against Haley (ow whoever), the GOP hierarchy, state officials and anyone else he perceived as having crossed his path. He'd also spout off like a madman. Would it make a difference? Yes, but there'd also be context: *why* had he lost a primary campaign he's currently cruising to victory in?3 -
All that Starmer article is telling me is that we are looking at the return of NuLab. Something I am not particularly convinced is a good thing.
We need impetus and fresh ideas, not retreads of pandering back to Thatcherism.0 -
Ah but you forget. "Righties" can't be guilty of hypocrisy because they never pretend to care about anything. It's one of the perks of being one.Northern_Al said:
I'm not sure that's lefty hypocrisy, given that the three people cited in the second article as availing themselves of a private jet are Jeff Bezos, Prince (?) Charles and Boris Johnson. Righty hypocrisy?Fishing said:For connoisseurs of lefty hypocrisy:
https://www.cop28accommodationdubai.com/charter-private-jet-to-cop28-dubai/
I particularly love the first line on that page:
"If you’re looking to charter a private jet to COP28 in Dubai, we can help organize this and more."
Also:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/oliverwilliams1/2021/11/05/118-private-jets-take-leaders-to-cop26-climate-summit-burning-over-1000-tons-of-co2/?sh=289865c653d94 -
Yes, but on the other hand if Haley did win the primaries, if she is facing Biden she will immediately contrast favourably with him. He loses his “saviour of democracy” piece and all of the queries around his mental acuity etc will come to the fore against someone who is clearly as sharp as a pin. I’m not saying he can’t win against Haley, but even with Trump as a thorn in her side she has to be favoured.bondegezou said:
Even if he doesn’t run as an independent, he will constantly distract from Haley (or whoever), criticise her, drive down Republican turnout, launch quixotic lawsuits, demand loyalty pledges from House and Senate candidates, etc. etc. All great news for the Dems.edmundintokyo said:
The dogs bark but the caravan moves on? Obviously he'd say he woz robbed and it would be a fun convention, but if he hasn't got the votes then he hasn't got the votes.Jonathan said:If Haley defeats (or looks on course to defeat) Trump do we seriously think he will accept that with quiet dignity? He will throw his rattle out of the pram and cause complete havoc. I am not sure primary system can contain that.
The real question would be whether he tried to run as an independent, but even if he wants to that seems hard because of the sore loser laws and so forth. The rational thing to do would be to bargain with Haley for a pardon, but at that point I guess we'd find out how rational he is.
The idea that he’ll bargain for a pardon, as I’ve said before, I’m not buying it. Even if he made some sort of agreement, it would take less than a week for him to break whatever terms were agreed. He cannot stop himself bloviating.
It is still a low probability she gets the nomination, though.0 -
My own view is that had we kept wide swathes of the economy nationalised, retained exchange controls, kept subsidising coal, ship, and car production, retained the closed shop, secondary picketing, and prices and incomes policies, our economic performance over the past 44 years would have been similar to that of Argentina, over the same period.Mexicanpete said:...
Primary and tertiary industrial policy too. All but gone.Foxy said:
Deregulation of the City and handing the economy over to financial speculators hasn't been an unequivocal long term success either.Mexicanpete said:
Indeed, notwithstanding 13 years of New Labour in-between, many of Thatchers Friedman economics chickens are coming home to roost as we speak. Failed privatised utilities and the current housing crisis can be traced back to the 1980s. Her Euroscepticism coupled with her client press boosted reputation unwittingly made her the Godmother of Brexit.viewcode said:
Many people brought meaningful change to the UK. Attlee. Blair. Goering. Change is not the same as good.Theuniondivvie said:The quest to find the clitoris of the English electorate is unending.
Without North Sea oil nor "selling off the family silver" by privatisations, Thatcherism style remodeling of the country is no longer possible, even if the challenges weren't so different.1 -
No likes?? I thought it was a good pun. Oh, well...Sunil_Prasannan said:
Dame Keiri di Thatchawa.Theuniondivvie said:
Preparing for the big change. No surgery involved I hope.Leon said:
He suddenly looks like he’s wearing a weird multicoloured toupeeTheuniondivvie said:The quest to find the clitoris of the English electorate is unending.
0 -
The whole comment misunderstands the Copp process, it's not a "lefty" project, it's a meeting organised by the entire global community to address the threat posed by climate change. The meeting in Dubai is attended by people of all political persuasion and none, including wealthy business people who may want to fly in by private jet. Of course one can point out the inherent absurdity of flying by private jet to a climate conference, but it's not a "lefty" hypocrisy. I guess there are a few on the right who misunderstand the scientific consensus on this issue - or are sufficiently nihilistic to pretend they do - but that doesn't make addressing climate change a "lefty" project, it is a mainstream goal that most of humanity has signed up to in the name of self-preservation.Northern_Al said:
I'm not sure that's lefty hypocrisy, given that the three people cited in the second article as availing themselves of a private jet are Jeff Bezos, Prince (?) Charles and Boris Johnson. Righty hypocrisy?Fishing said:For connoisseurs of lefty hypocrisy:
https://www.cop28accommodationdubai.com/charter-private-jet-to-cop28-dubai/
I particularly love the first line on that page:
"If you’re looking to charter a private jet to COP28 in Dubai, we can help organize this and more."
Also:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/oliverwilliams1/2021/11/05/118-private-jets-take-leaders-to-cop26-climate-summit-burning-over-1000-tons-of-co2/?sh=289865c653d93 -
Good morning
Starmer's praise for Thatcher is weird and seems to be part of him wanting to be all things to all people1 -
It's all...part...of the planOnlyLivingBoy said:
I think you're too hysterical to be a psychopath.Leon said:
I have a mild knife obsessionTOPPING said:
I never had you down as a rustle something up oh where's the asafoetida kind of guy.Leon said:
Lovely knivesboulay said:
Had the weird experience of thinking about you yesterday at a birthday lunch. I didn’t know your favourite knife-makers made knives for dining purposes but they were every bit as sharp as their fold up fun knives.Leon said:
He suddenly looks like he’s wearing a weird multicoloured toupeeTheuniondivvie said:The quest to find the clitoris of the English electorate is unending.
Tho technically my favourite knives are these
Wolf and Dingo. Hand forged on Bodmin Moor. I have three. Superb
https://www.atkinson-art.co.uk/product-category/wolf-dingo-chef-knives-for-valhalla/
Only problem is they are 25 times the price of Opinel
Coincidentally I am reading a book about forensic psychiatry and “an obsession with knives” is one of the top 20 primary indicators of psychopathy
I also tick several other boxes. Odd sensation
1 -
Rishi took a huge personal airliner there and back to spend just 12 hours in Dubai!Northern_Al said:
I'm not sure that's lefty hypocrisy, given that the three people cited in the second article as availing themselves of a private jet are Jeff Bezos, Prince (?) Charles and Boris Johnson. Righty hypocrisy?Fishing said:For connoisseurs of lefty hypocrisy:
https://www.cop28accommodationdubai.com/charter-private-jet-to-cop28-dubai/
I particularly love the first line on that page:
"If you’re looking to charter a private jet to COP28 in Dubai, we can help organize this and more."
Also:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/oliverwilliams1/2021/11/05/118-private-jets-take-leaders-to-cop26-climate-summit-burning-over-1000-tons-of-co2/?sh=289865c653d90 -
it's only weird to people who like to categorise people in boxes and get confounded when it turns out life isn't quite as simple as thatBig_G_NorthWales said:Good morning
Starmer's praise for Thatcher is weird and seems to be part of him wanting to be all things to all people3 -
Starmer chasing the votes of people who will never vote for Labour . At the same time pissing off many Labour voters . The biggest danger to Labour at the moment is Starmer !
And talking about Brexit possibilities . More stupid comments which will annoy the vast majority of Labour voters who think Brexit is a crusty white turd !0 -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylwMWpbv5Fk&t=1sviewcode said:
It's all...part...of the planOnlyLivingBoy said:
I think you're too hysterical to be a psychopath.Leon said:
I have a mild knife obsessionTOPPING said:
I never had you down as a rustle something up oh where's the asafoetida kind of guy.Leon said:
Lovely knivesboulay said:
Had the weird experience of thinking about you yesterday at a birthday lunch. I didn’t know your favourite knife-makers made knives for dining purposes but they were every bit as sharp as their fold up fun knives.Leon said:
He suddenly looks like he’s wearing a weird multicoloured toupeeTheuniondivvie said:The quest to find the clitoris of the English electorate is unending.
Tho technically my favourite knives are these
Wolf and Dingo. Hand forged on Bodmin Moor. I have three. Superb
https://www.atkinson-art.co.uk/product-category/wolf-dingo-chef-knives-for-valhalla/
Only problem is they are 25 times the price of Opinel
Coincidentally I am reading a book about forensic psychiatry and “an obsession with knives” is one of the top 20 primary indicators of psychopathy
I also tick several other boxes. Odd sensation1 -
Pootin!Leon said:
The Russians have missed a trick when it comes toTheuniondivvie said:
Schnapps with Shapps is zingy.Dura_Ace said:From the Times this morning. This is it. The eschaton is here and all will be judged according to their gnosis and worldly actions.
Bevvy with Cleverly
Fizz with Liz
Perry with Penny
Glűhwein with Gove
Arak with Jack
Punch up with Cameron
The last is just a bit of advice,
Hootin’ with Putin
Going round to Vlad’s dacha for a massive coke bender0 -
Haley actually sounds borderline sensible, relatively speaking.0
