MoD tells soldiers not to wear uniform in public until further notice. I can understand this but its a terrible indictment that our forces feel the need to hide what they do because of this.
The currant MOD is a pathetic organisation.
I agree. I much prefer the sultana MOD, which tastes much better in porridge.
You must eat some strange foods with your porridge.
@tim As we know, the number of foreign University students increased in the last period I've seen figures for (by 2%). This class of falling students, if that is what it is, must be further education and adult education colleges which don't make our "international reputation" so much.
"The Woolwich murderer's impromptu claim to be acting on behalf of the grievances of Muslims everywhere echoes the statements made by the 7/7 bombers. "Your democratically elected governments continue to perpetuate atrocities against my people all over the world", said chief bomber Mohammad Siddique Khan. "My people" – what extraordinary arrogance and self-righteousness. Did Khan ever talk to "his people" or win a mandate from them? Of course not, no more than the knife-wielding nutter in Woolwich engaged with the inhabitants of what he thinks of as "his lands". Rather, in this era in which any old fool can claim to be a "community spokesperson", and can be treated seriously as such, these murderous loners seem to be trying a psychotic version of the same trick – claiming that by dint of shared skin colour or common religious sentiment they have the authority to speak on behalf of millions of people they have never met or whose lands they have never visited.
Sadly, observers and even politicians have tended to treat seriously homegrown Islamic terrorists' claims to represent Muslim grievance. Certainly after 7/7, there was a discussion about needing to change British foreign policy lest more angry British Muslims launch terror attacks at home. That is, the bombers' claims to be expressing some kind of natural Muslim anger, some deeply ingrained, culturally derived fury about the "persecution" of their "fellow Muslims abroad", as the Observer put it, was taken seriously. Their bloody attack was denounced, but their presumed moral authority to launch the attack was implicitly accepted. As Muslims, they were presumed to have some special insight into the grievance felt by "fellow Muslims", some kind of identity connection with the ummah. Identity politics allows one to circumvent the pesky business of actually thinking or engaging with people and grants one the automatic authority to speak for anyone who has the same cultural or ethnic origins.
Identity politics breeds narcissism and arrogance, a belief that one is special because of where one comes from or looks like. It fosters petty grievances, too, inviting people to think of themselves as a threatened little cultural corner, being walked over by the ignorant, culture-lacking mainstream. In some cases, these feelings, it seems, can become completely unhinged, to the extent that we have recently seen horrific acts of violence carried out by people who really, passionately believe that they are global community spokespeople." http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/brendanoneill2/100218364/woolwich-attack-the-savagery-of-identity-politics/
Is it possible that these young men are clinically insane and have therefore grossly misunderstood what has been said to them?
They certainly didn't appear rational, by any normal definition.
In other words it's a random act, not part of any campaign, or as the result of an organisation, Possibly comparable with the Boston bombing, although it requires considerably more planning to build bombs than find a couple of knives and machetes.
We should be extremely wary of this line of argument. It sounds superficially attractive and indeed reassuring - 'they're not really evil; they're mad' - but its consequences lead us to dark places.
Firstly, as with Breivik, apart from the act itself, there doesn't appear to be any evidence that they are insane, which is to say they could not understand what they were doing or the consequences of their actions. On the contrary: they appear to have understood all too well and accepted those consequences.
To argue then that they were insane rather than evil means that it must be the act itself which is the mark of insanity. However, was not the act the logical and rationalised consequence of a belief system? In that case, the belief system the individual holds must itself be a mark of insanity as the one followed from the other.
At which point, how are the authorities to distinguish between what is an insane belief and what is not - and what are they to do about those who hold them? The KGB under Andropov followed precisely that logic for those who opposed communism, which to them was the perfect system (hence anyone opposed to a perfect system must either be mad or at least require re-educating if gullible). It comes far too close to mind-control by the state to be comfortable.
Those who commit belief-motivated crimes, whether religious or political, are not insane unless they cannot comprehend what they are doing. We should not excuse behaviour as that of the mad when the reality is uncomfortably different.
... at Windsor barracks there are armed troops on the main gate, presumably to deter and respond to threats. Are there similar at Woolwich and, if so, why didn't they respond? Are they prohibited from responding beyond the barracks perimeter and would that apply regardless of the scale of the incident?
MoD tells soldiers not to wear uniform in public until further notice. I can understand this but its a terrible indictment that our forces feel the need to hide what they do because of this.
There's been a report that soldiers and ex soldiers are changing their social media picture to ones where they are in uniform. I personally think that off duty soldiers should wear uniforms, dress uniform if possible. This happens in the US and they are honoured wherever they go!
@tim As we know, the number of foreign University students increased in the last period I've seen figures for (by 2%). This class of falling students, if that is what it is, must be further education and adult education colleges which don't make our "international reputation" so much.
"Sponsored student visas applications fell 10% in the year ending March 2013. This change was not uniform, with a 5% increase for the university sector and falls of 46%, 46% and 7% for further education, English language schools and independent schools, respectively"
Woolwich terror attack: Former leader of banned Al Muhajiroun, Anjem Choudary, tells @Independent: I knew knifeman independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/…
9:59am · 23 May 13 · web Woolwich attacker was known to banned Islamist organisation
One of the two men involved in the Woolwich terror attack was known to a banned Islamist organisation and went by the name of Mujahid, The Independent has learned. The Independent @Independent
@TOPPING I understand that UKIP are fully in favour of a massive housebuilding policy so long as they are not actually built on any available land. An Englishman's home is his castle, and his castle is in the air.
MoD tells soldiers not to wear uniform in public until further notice. I can understand this but its a terrible indictment that our forces feel the need to hide what they do because of this.
There's been a report that soldiers and ex soldiers are changing their social media picture to ones where they are in uniform. I personally think that off duty soldiers should wear uniforms, dress uniform if possible. This happens in the US and they are honoured wherever they go!
Personally, I'm all in favour of the Armed Services wearing uniform when off-duty if they want to. If you've the guts to wear it in war-zones when on active service - why be told to be in civvies when on UK soil? I don't know any personnel who want to hide what they do, they've very proud of it.
Fraser Nelson @frasernelson Eyewitness to the beheading, amazing tweets: RT @BOYADEE: Mate ive seen alot of shit im my time but that has to rank sumwhere in the top 3.
Saw this quote yesterday. Top 3???!
At least he cant be accused of hysterical overreaction
Technically, first place is within the top three, though it'd be an unusual way of putting it.
"How did you get on at your competition?" "Very well, thanks. I won a medal." "Oh, congratulations. Which one?" "Gold."
Paul Waugh @paulwaugh Migration stats also show 5% inc in student visas for unis, but falls of 46%, 46%, 7% for FE, Eng language schools + independent schools
That's the difference between top drawer education and fake education.
MoD tells soldiers not to wear uniform in public until further notice. I can understand this but its a terrible indictment that our forces feel the need to hide what they do because of this.
There's been a report that soldiers and ex soldiers are changing their social media picture to ones where they are in uniform. I personally think that off duty soldiers should wear uniforms, dress uniform if possible. This happens in the US and they are honoured wherever they go!
Personally, I'm all in favour of the Armed Services wearing uniform when off-duty if they want to. If you've the guts to wear it in war-zones when on active service - why be told to be in civvies when on UK soil? I don't know any personnel who want to hide what they do, they've very proud of it.
If a soldier want to wear uniform off duty then I think they should be allowed. But I can't see why would want to, in much the same way as a copper not wanting to be defined by the job off-duty. Or a nurse for that matter.
MoD tells soldiers not to wear uniform in public until further notice. I can understand this but its a terrible indictment that our forces feel the need to hide what they do because of this.
There's been a report that soldiers and ex soldiers are changing their social media picture to ones where they are in uniform. I personally think that off duty soldiers should wear uniforms, dress uniform if possible. This happens in the US and they are honoured wherever they go!
Personally, I'm all in favour of the Armed Services wearing uniform when off-duty if they want to. If you've the guts to wear it in war-zones when on active service - why be told to be in civvies when on UK soil? I don't know any personnel who want to hide what they do, they've very proud of it.
Soldiers ! Don't wear your uniforms. It sounds like the kind of advice the MoD would get from its lawyers. Chickenshit advice.
lucy manning @lucymanning Anjem Choudray tells ITV News (& The Independent it seems) he knows 1 of attackers. Attended Al Muhajiroun events. Is Muslim convert.
The Honorable Artillery Company last night had a heavy police presence outside its gates. The bouncer on the door of the lapdancing club opposite looked very confused.
... at Windsor barracks there are armed troops on the main gate, presumably to deter and respond to threats. Are there similar at Woolwich and, if so, why didn't they respond? Are they prohibited from responding beyond the barracks perimeter and would that apply regardless of the scale of the incident?
They can prevent incidents 'on site'. But soldiers drawing weapons on the streets of Britain without authority would pose an interesting problem; not sure rules of engagement extend to that.
MoD tells soldiers not to wear uniform in public until further notice. I can understand this but its a terrible indictment that our forces feel the need to hide what they do because of this.
There's been a report that soldiers and ex soldiers are changing their social media picture to ones where they are in uniform. I personally think that off duty soldiers should wear uniforms, dress uniform if possible. This happens in the US and they are honoured wherever they go!
Personally, I'm all in favour of the Armed Services wearing uniform when off-duty if they want to. If you've the guts to wear it in war-zones when on active service - why be told to be in civvies when on UK soil? I don't know any personnel who want to hide what they do, they've very proud of it.
If a soldier want to wear uniform off duty then I think they should be allowed. But I can't see why would want to, in much the same way as a copper not wanting to be defined by the job off-duty. Or a nurse for that matter.
Unless they're on uniformdating.com that is ;-)
Mate of mine went on uniform dating and said they were hopeless
He told them he wanted a date with a girl dressed in school uniform and they sent a bloke dressed up as a copper to his house
Anjem Choudary (Urdu: انجم چودری; born 1967 in England) is a British former solicitor, and, before it was proscribed, spokesman for the Islamist group Islam4UK. He is married, has four children, and lives in Ilford, London.
"... The French Interior Ministry has also permanently banned him from entering France."
Question - Doesn't that violate the freedom of movement of European peoples ?
Nick Robinson @bbcnickrobinson Advice not to wear their uniforms in public set to be reversed. PM said believes was "an understandable reaction" but people should go about daily lives
... at Windsor barracks there are armed troops on the main gate, presumably to deter and respond to threats. Are there similar at Woolwich and, if so, why didn't they respond? Are they prohibited from responding beyond the barracks perimeter and would that apply regardless of the scale of the incident?
They can prevent incidents 'on site'. But soldiers drawing weapons on the streets of Britain without authority would pose an interesting problem; not sure rules of engagement extend to that.
It would require "MacP" powers - military aid to the Civil Power. When the police (and the HS would have to sanction) request military aid for the maintenance of public order, etc. ie frontline policing duties but with the army.
The next one down is "MacA" - military aid to the civil authority eg. helping out such as the green goddesses.
And a resounding "yes" to the wearing of uniform, as you say together with a personal weapon.
I'm not one to provoke, but no wonder extremists hate Britain when argumentative young white girls go walking the streets of their home towns with nothing on. Tut, tut*
*It's doing the rounds of Facebook. She's quite brave actually!
Google tells me that: "The 50 most intense British hailstorms (TORRO intensity H5-6 or more) since 1650 have all occurred between the months of May and September with a well-defined peak during July."
I find the speculation about the political fortunes of Dave & the Tories as a result of this horrific murder distasteful.
Whether it's distasteful or not, events like this have consequences. Remember all the fuss about whether Bush really won the 2000 election? That stopped pretty much absolutely as soon as the trade center towers were hit.
The Woolwich murders were a political act and have political consequences. The authorities are well aware of that and so should we be.
The blood soaked Woolwich killer specifically stated that he wanted the British to remove their leaders.
Whether this was specific to Cameron I think unlikely, I suspect he is no more keen on Ed Milliband.
The murder was political.
"Crime is crime is crime. It is not political, it is crime."
"Sources told The Daily Telegraph that British officials were sympathetic to the measure because it is part of the "benefits of food labelling" and Defra has admitted it will impose the ban."
I was sure that "As a father" David Cameron was against this nannying, despite everything he ever said about chocolate oranges and Rihanna's corset. And now I have been betrayed by the olive oil in jug ban.
Google tells me that: "The 50 most intense British hailstorms (TORRO intensity H5-6 or more) since 1650 have all occurred between the months of May and September with a well-defined peak during July."
Unsurprising. Hailstones develop in intense storms and they require atmospheric energy, which is a great deal more plentiful in summer than winter.
I find the speculation about the political fortunes of Dave & the Tories as a result of this horrific murder distasteful.
Whether it's distasteful or not, events like this have consequences. Remember all the fuss about whether Bush really won the 2000 election? That stopped pretty much absolutely as soon as the trade center towers were hit.
The Woolwich murders were a political act and have political consequences. The authorities are well aware of that and so should we be.
The blood soaked Woolwich killer specifically stated that he wanted the British to remove their leaders.
Whether this was specific to Cameron I think unlikely, I suspect he is no more keen on Ed Milliband.
The murder was political.
"Crime is crime is crime. It is not political, it is crime."
No. When a murder is carried out to advance a political cause or to seek to change policy or behaviour, it is political. That doesn't stop it being a crime too.
Interview with the woman who intervened. I think it's very endearingly British that she was calm in talking to two machete-wielding murderers, but "really annoyed" that her bus was diverted!
"endearingly British"? Come, come Mr Palmer. `Completely crazy, if you ask me. She could have been headless and was damn lucky she wasn't.
Well, yes, that was the risk, but taking risks in a good cause is not crazy. Courage when it matters + petty grumbling when it doesn't sums a lot of people up.
Why do they not publish the immigration data by country? They have some rather random groups. They break the EU into the EU15 and EU8, which only totals 23 of 27 nations. Then they have the rather outdated groups of new commonwealth and old commonwealth, while grouping everyone from the USA to Somalia in "other foreign".
It is understood that the British decision to abstain during the EU vote, effectively opening the door to the ban, was taken by a head of department level official in the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, raising questions over whether ministerial consent was given
It's hard to tell exactly what's going on from the immigration data, but a few things I pulled out:
- Those coming for work reasons is largely unchanged, down just 4%. (This data seems to be inconsistent between worksheets for some reason...) - Those coming for family reasons have fallen by 19,000, or 23%. Most of this (11,000) was from the New Commonwealth, a category down by 33% - Students coming from the New Commonwealth have also dropped off strongly, by 49%. As people in Further Ed colleges typically come from the New Commonwealth, this makes sense.
I find the speculation about the political fortunes of Dave & the Tories as a result of this horrific murder distasteful.
Whether it's distasteful or not, events like this have consequences. Remember all the fuss about whether Bush really won the 2000 election? That stopped pretty much absolutely as soon as the trade center towers were hit.
The Woolwich murders were a political act and have political consequences. The authorities are well aware of that and so should we be.
The blood soaked Woolwich killer specifically stated that he wanted the British to remove their leaders.
Whether this was specific to Cameron I think unlikely, I suspect he is no more keen on Ed Milliband.
The murder was political.
"Crime is crime is crime. It is not political, it is crime."
No. When a murder is carried out to advance a political cause or to seek to change policy or behaviour, it is political. That doesn't stop it being a crime too.
"Sources told The Daily Telegraph that British officials were sympathetic to the measure because it is part of the "benefits of food labelling" and Defra has admitted it will impose the ban."
I was sure that "As a father" David Cameron was against this nannying, despite everything he ever said about chocolate oranges and Rihanna's corset. And now I have been betrayed by the olive oil in jug ban.
1) Cameron is against it. 2) The British government abstained, that doesn't make them "behind it" 3) Sympathetic officials is just a sign that our civil servants in Brussels have gone native
Google tells me that: "The 50 most intense British hailstorms (TORRO intensity H5-6 or more) since 1650 have all occurred between the months of May and September with a well-defined peak during July."
Unsurprising. Hailstones develop in intense storms and they require atmospheric energy, which is a great deal more plentiful in summer than winter.
Indeed, but many people make the mistaken connection of hail = ice = cold = winter = why is there hail falling in summer?!!1! What happened to global warming?? LOL!
I know sam didn't do that in this case, but it happens so often that I like to nip it in the bud.
Mrs T appearing on the conf platform after the Brighton Bombing was the bravest thing I've ever seen a living politician do. It was incredible given what'd gone on the night before and the deaths/injuries to her own cabinet colleagues/family.
Many of those are forgotten nowadays - even Mrs Tebbit is rarely mentioned.
There seems to be some confusion re the identity of the dead soldier - he's been named by Sky, and as serving in the Royal Fusillers by ITV but BBC and Met are saying he's not being identified at all.
Robin Brant @robindbrant sky reports that #woolowich attack suspect michael adebolajo was born in lambeth, grew up in east london. went to greenwich uni.
Mrs T appearing on the conf platform after the Brighton Bombing was the bravest thing I've ever seen a living politician do. It was incredible given what'd gone on the night before and the deaths/injuries to her own cabinet colleagues/family.
Many of those are forgotten nowadays - even Mrs Tebbit is rarely mentioned.
I was only 8 when the bombing happened but I do remember clearly the footage of the survivors being pulled out of the rubble,
Google tells me that: "The 50 most intense British hailstorms (TORRO intensity H5-6 or more) since 1650 have all occurred between the months of May and September with a well-defined peak during July."
Unsurprising. Hailstones develop in intense storms and they require atmospheric energy, which is a great deal more plentiful in summer than winter.
Indeed, but many people make the mistaken connection of hail = ice = cold = winter = why is there hail falling in summer?!!1! What happened to global warming?? LOL!
I know sam didn't do that in this case, but it happens so often that I like to nip it in the bud.
Oh no ha I wasnt making a point about global warming!
Just a very sad boring observation that I needlessly shared on here!
Can anyone watch that video and not believe this young woman's home town has been wrecked by mass immigration? That may be a minority of Muslims marching to the sound of "UK go to hell", but it's certainly not a tiny one. They are barbaric savages with no appreciation of morality or decency. Where are the establishment politicians speaking out about rallies like this? Nowhere. They prefer to turn a blind eye so as not to raise tension, just as the police turned a blind eye to Muslim men raping white children.
Mrs T appearing on the conf platform after the Brighton Bombing was the bravest thing I've ever seen a living politician do. It was incredible given what'd gone on the night before and the deaths/injuries to her own cabinet colleagues/family.
Many of those are forgotten nowadays - even Mrs Tebbit is rarely mentioned.
I was only 8 when the bombing happened but I do remember clearly the footage of the survivors being pulled out of the rubble,
Mr. Dugarbandier, calling for their own country, and for the police of that country, to burn in hell is absolutely shocking and unacceptable, as was their suggestion that the young presenter was practically naked and looking to seduce someone because she had the temerity to bare more skin than someone wearing a burkha.
Google tells me that: "The 50 most intense British hailstorms (TORRO intensity H5-6 or more) since 1650 have all occurred between the months of May and September with a well-defined peak during July."
Unsurprising. Hailstones develop in intense storms and they require atmospheric energy, which is a great deal more plentiful in summer than winter.
Indeed, but many people make the mistaken connection of hail = ice = cold = winter = why is there hail falling in summer?!!1! What happened to global warming?? LOL!
I know sam didn't do that in this case, but it happens so often that I like to nip it in the bud.
Oh no ha I wasnt making a point about global warming!
Just a very sad boring observation that I needlessly shared on here!
Radio Scotland reported on my way to work this morning that several snow gates were shut because of very heavy snow including on the Cockbridge to Tommintoul road. She said "I can't believe I am saying this". Whilst I take the point about conditions that create hail such heavy snow towards the end of May at not much more than 2000 feet is truly remarkable.
Indeed, but many people make the mistaken connection of hail = ice = cold = winter = why is there hail falling in summer?!!1! What happened to global warming?? LOL!
And from Cricinfo at almost the same time you posted that:
"Gets heavier and the players are coming off Amazingly in May there are now a heavy shower of hailstones!"
Still, should clear soon and Ireland have made a good start!
Robin Brant @robindbrant sky reports that #woolowich attack suspect michael adebolajo was born in lambeth, grew up in east london. went to greenwich uni.
As I said it avoids any future possible deportation issues for the Gov't.
Can anyone watch that video and not believe this young woman's home town has been wrecked by mass immigration? That may be a minority of Muslims marching to the sound of "UK go to hell", but it's certainly not a tiny one. They are barbaric savages with no appreciation of morality or decency. Where are the establishment politicians speaking out about rallies like this? Nowhere. They prefer to turn a blind eye so as not to raise tension, just as the police turned a blind eye to Muslim men raping white children.
Anjem Choudary's mob turn up in a town, and somewhere on the internet someone reacts exactly as they were meant to. Exactly how some did last night.
And the EDL don't represent British culture either.
Are you claiming most of those marching aren't from Luton?
Mrs T appearing on the conf platform after the Brighton Bombing was the bravest thing I've ever seen a living politician do. It was incredible given what'd gone on the night before and the deaths/injuries to her own cabinet colleagues/family.
Many of those are forgotten nowadays - even Mrs Tebbit is rarely mentioned.
I was only 8 when the bombing happened but I do remember clearly the footage of the survivors being pulled out of the rubble,
Mrs T appearing on the conf platform after the Brighton Bombing was the bravest thing I've ever seen a living politician do. It was incredible given what'd gone on the night before and the deaths/injuries to her own cabinet colleagues/family.
Many of those are forgotten nowadays - even Mrs Tebbit is rarely mentioned.
I was only 8 when the bombing happened but I do remember clearly the footage of the survivors being pulled out of the rubble,
Yes that was a fine speech by a fine prime minister!
IIRC - she insisted that the local M&S opened up so attendees could find something to wear at conf as their own stuff was ruined in the blast. Now that takes a certain presence of mind.
Can anyone watch that video and not believe this young woman's home town has been wrecked by mass immigration? That may be a minority of Muslims marching to the sound of "UK go to hell", but it's certainly not a tiny one. They are barbaric savages with no appreciation of morality or decency. Where are the establishment politicians speaking out about rallies like this? Nowhere. They prefer to turn a blind eye so as not to raise tension, just as the police turned a blind eye to Muslim men raping white children.
Anjem Choudary's mob turn up in a town, and somewhere on the internet someone reacts exactly as they were meant to. Exactly how some did last night.
And the EDL don't represent British culture either.
Are you claiming most of those marching aren't from Luton?
I doubt it very much given that Choudary's mob AKA Islam4UK, Al Ghurabaa, the Saved Sect has a few hundred supporters who like marching around a lot.
Utterly bizzare bullet point 8 regarding 'Boris Johnson's philandering past' in an article involving a sick child murderer ? 'Second victory for Press freedom this week after Appeal Court ruled the public does have a right to know about Boris Johnson's philandering past' might be newsworthy, but to add it to this article ?! Jumped the shark.
Indeed, but many people make the mistaken connection of hail = ice = cold = winter = why is there hail falling in summer?!!1! What happened to global warming?? LOL!
And from Cricinfo at almost the same time you posted that:
"Gets heavier and the players are coming off Amazingly in May there are now a heavy shower of hailstones!"
Still, should clear soon and Ireland have made a good start!
Grr. Reminds me of a match I was playing in which was abandoned due to a heavy hailstorm after we'd scored 178 and had the opposition cold at 9-5. The ground was white after it passed over and while we were prepared to wait for it to thaw, for some reason our opponents (and more irritatingly, the umpire), weren't!
Can anyone watch that video and not believe this young woman's home town has been wrecked by mass immigration? That may be a minority of Muslims marching to the sound of "UK go to hell", but it's certainly not a tiny one. They are barbaric savages with no appreciation of morality or decency. Where are the establishment politicians speaking out about rallies like this? Nowhere. They prefer to turn a blind eye so as not to raise tension, just as the police turned a blind eye to Muslim men raping white children.
Anjem Choudary's mob turn up in a town, and somewhere on the internet someone reacts exactly as they were meant to. Exactly how some did last night.
And the EDL don't represent British culture either.
Are you claiming most of those marching aren't from Luton?
I doubt it very much given that Choudary's mob AKA Islam4UK, Al Ghurabaa, the Saved Sect has a few hundred supporters who like marching around a lot.
You've never been to Luton, have you?
Luton is somewhere I never want to go to ever again - I was last there maybe 6 or 7 yrs ago and what a frighteningly unwelcoming place it was. There was an undercurrent of tension that I haven't felt so much anywhere else. The local residents in an unspoken stand-off with each other and taxi drivers that made me feel threatened just for being female and daring to get into their cabs without a chaperone.
A very weird experience and one I'd never expect to see here in the UK.
"Both the general law and its Gresham’s corollary point, in contemporary circumstances, towards the resort to physical violence, in the form of firearms or high explosive, as being so probable as to be predicted with virtual certainty. The experience of the last decade and more, all round the world, shows that acts of violence, however apparently irrational or inappropriate their targets, precipitate a frenzied search on the part of the society attacked to discover and remedy more and more grievances, real or imaginary, among those from whom the violence is supposed to emanate or on whose behalf it is supposed to be exercised... This is what produces the gearingeffect of terrorism in the contemporary world, yielding huge results from acts of violence perpetrated by minimal numbers. It is not, I repeat again and again, that the mass of a particular population are violently or criminally disposed. Far from it; that population soon becomes itself the prisoner of the violence and machinations of an infinitely small minority among it. Just a few thugs, a few shots, a few bombs at the right place and time—and that is enough for disproportionate consequences to follow."
Can anyone watch that video and not believe this young woman's home town has been wrecked by mass immigration? That may be a minority of Muslims marching to the sound of "UK go to hell", but it's certainly not a tiny one. They are barbaric savages with no appreciation of morality or decency. Where are the establishment politicians speaking out about rallies like this? Nowhere. They prefer to turn a blind eye so as not to raise tension, just as the police turned a blind eye to Muslim men raping white children.
Anjem Choudary's mob turn up in a town, and somewhere on the internet someone reacts exactly as they were meant to. Exactly how some did last night.
And the EDL don't represent British culture either.
Are you claiming most of those marching aren't from Luton?
I doubt it very much given that Choudary's mob AKA Islam4UK, Al Ghurabaa, the Saved Sect has a few hundred supporters who like marching around a lot.
You've never been to Luton, have you?
Luton is somewhere I never want to go to ever again - I was last there maybe 6 or 7 yrs ago and what a frighteningly unwelcoming place it was. There was an undercurrent of tension that I haven't felt so much anywhere else. The local residents in an unspoken stand-off with each other and taxi drivers that made me feel threatened just for being female and daring to get into their cabs without a chaperone.
A very weird experience and one I'd never expect to see here in the UK.
I know Luton very well. Pubs have closed down in the areas with high Muslim immigration. Women wearing niqabs, be it through fear or brainwashing, are very common in certain parts. Several of my friends come from the town and all have received abuse from Muslim youths. The bad parts of the town are the sorts of places where the left-liberals that like to celebrate diversity and multiculturalism have never been.
Indeed, but many people make the mistaken connection of hail = ice = cold = winter = why is there hail falling in summer?!!1! What happened to global warming?? LOL!
And from Cricinfo at almost the same time you posted that:
"Gets heavier and the players are coming off Amazingly in May there are now a heavy shower of hailstones!"
Still, should clear soon and Ireland have made a good start!
That's exactly what I am talking about. There's nothing unusual about hail in May.
Can anyone watch that video and not believe this young woman's home town has been wrecked by mass immigration? That may be a minority of Muslims marching to the sound of "UK go to hell", but it's certainly not a tiny one. They are barbaric savages with no appreciation of morality or decency. Where are the establishment politicians speaking out about rallies like this? Nowhere. They prefer to turn a blind eye so as not to raise tension, just as the police turned a blind eye to Muslim men raping white children.
Anjem Choudary's mob turn up in a town, and somewhere on the internet someone reacts exactly as they were meant to. Exactly how some did last night.
And the EDL don't represent British culture either.
Are you claiming most of those marching aren't from Luton?
I doubt it very much given that Choudary's mob AKA Islam4UK, Al Ghurabaa, the Saved Sect has a few hundred supporters who like marching around a lot.
You've never been to Luton, have you?
Luton is somewhere I never want to go to ever again - I was last there maybe 6 or 7 yrs ago and what a frighteningly unwelcoming place it was. There was an undercurrent of tension that I haven't felt so much anywhere else. The local residents in an unspoken stand-off with each other and taxi drivers that made me feel threatened just for being female and daring to get into their cabs without a chaperone.
A very weird experience and one I'd never expect to see here in the UK.
I know Luton very well. Pubs have closed down in the areas with high Muslim immigration. Women wearing niqabs, be it through fear or brainwashing, are very common in certain parts. Several of my friends come from the town and all have received abuse from Muslim youths. The bad parts of the town are the sorts of places where the left-liberals that like to celebrate diversity and multiculturalism have never been.
That Luton residents turn up with regularity in terrorism investigations doesn't surprise me at all - that the culture of appeasement has allowed it to happen is a disgrace.
No one but extremists and bullies win by turning a blind-eye to it.
Comments
David Chalk @davechalk
Hi @Official_EDL. I'm looking to change my energy supplier. Can I cancel my deal with you?
Or is housebuilding just something that individual members of UKIP (you) and the Labour Party (tim) agree on and support?
"The Woolwich murderer's impromptu claim to be acting on behalf of the grievances of Muslims everywhere echoes the statements made by the 7/7 bombers. "Your democratically elected governments continue to perpetuate atrocities against my people all over the world", said chief bomber Mohammad Siddique Khan. "My people" – what extraordinary arrogance and self-righteousness. Did Khan ever talk to "his people" or win a mandate from them? Of course not, no more than the knife-wielding nutter in Woolwich engaged with the inhabitants of what he thinks of as "his lands". Rather, in this era in which any old fool can claim to be a "community spokesperson", and can be treated seriously as such, these murderous loners seem to be trying a psychotic version of the same trick – claiming that by dint of shared skin colour or common religious sentiment they have the authority to speak on behalf of millions of people they have never met or whose lands they have never visited.
Sadly, observers and even politicians have tended to treat seriously homegrown Islamic terrorists' claims to represent Muslim grievance. Certainly after 7/7, there was a discussion about needing to change British foreign policy lest more angry British Muslims launch terror attacks at home. That is, the bombers' claims to be expressing some kind of natural Muslim anger, some deeply ingrained, culturally derived fury about the "persecution" of their "fellow Muslims abroad", as the Observer put it, was taken seriously. Their bloody attack was denounced, but their presumed moral authority to launch the attack was implicitly accepted. As Muslims, they were presumed to have some special insight into the grievance felt by "fellow Muslims", some kind of identity connection with the ummah. Identity politics allows one to circumvent the pesky business of actually thinking or engaging with people and grants one the automatic authority to speak for anyone who has the same cultural or ethnic origins.
Identity politics breeds narcissism and arrogance, a belief that one is special because of where one comes from or looks like. It fosters petty grievances, too, inviting people to think of themselves as a threatened little cultural corner, being walked over by the ignorant, culture-lacking mainstream. In some cases, these feelings, it seems, can become completely unhinged, to the extent that we have recently seen horrific acts of violence carried out by people who really, passionately believe that they are global community spokespeople." http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/brendanoneill2/100218364/woolwich-attack-the-savagery-of-identity-politics/
Firstly, as with Breivik, apart from the act itself, there doesn't appear to be any evidence that they are insane, which is to say they could not understand what they were doing or the consequences of their actions. On the contrary: they appear to have understood all too well and accepted those consequences.
To argue then that they were insane rather than evil means that it must be the act itself which is the mark of insanity. However, was not the act the logical and rationalised consequence of a belief system? In that case, the belief system the individual holds must itself be a mark of insanity as the one followed from the other.
At which point, how are the authorities to distinguish between what is an insane belief and what is not - and what are they to do about those who hold them? The KGB under Andropov followed precisely that logic for those who opposed communism, which to them was the perfect system (hence anyone opposed to a perfect system must either be mad or at least require re-educating if gullible). It comes far too close to mind-control by the state to be comfortable.
Those who commit belief-motivated crimes, whether religious or political, are not insane unless they cannot comprehend what they are doing. We should not excuse behaviour as that of the mad when the reality is uncomfortably different.
... at Windsor barracks there are armed troops on the main gate, presumably to deter and respond to threats. Are there similar at Woolwich and, if so, why didn't they respond? Are they prohibited from responding beyond the barracks perimeter and would that apply regardless of the scale of the incident?
"Sponsored student visas applications fell 10% in the year ending March 2013. This change was not uniform, with a 5% increase for the university sector and falls of 46%, 46% and 7% for further education, English language schools and independent schools, respectively"
http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/migration1/migration-statistics-quarterly-report/may-2013/index.html
My question remains: is housebuilding an official UKIP policy or just something you agree with tim on?
9:59am · 23 May 13 · web
Woolwich attacker was known to banned Islamist organisation
One of the two men involved in the Woolwich terror attack was known to a banned Islamist organisation and went by the name of Mujahid, The Independent has learned.
The Independent @Independent
"How did you get on at your competition?"
"Very well, thanks. I won a medal."
"Oh, congratulations. Which one?"
"Gold."
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Migration stats also show 5% inc in student visas for unis, but falls of 46%, 46%, 7% for FE, Eng language schools + independent schools
That's the difference between top drawer education and fake education.
But I can't see why would want to, in much the same way as a copper not wanting to be defined by the job off-duty. Or a nurse for that matter.
Unless they're on uniformdating.com that is ;-)
Anjem Choudray tells ITV News (& The Independent it seems) he knows 1 of attackers. Attended Al Muhajiroun events. Is Muslim convert.
He told them he wanted a date with a girl dressed in school uniform and they sent a bloke dressed up as a copper to his house
Would you, after yesterday?
Maybe with a side-arm.
"... The French Interior Ministry has also permanently banned him from entering France."
Question - Doesn't that violate the freedom of movement of European peoples ?
IMF boss Christine Lagarde to be charged after 'abusing position with £270million fraud and embezzlement scam' - dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2…
@bbcnickrobinson
Advice not to wear their uniforms in public set to be reversed. PM said believes was "an understandable reaction" but people should go about daily lives
Good.
Answer, if it's on security grounds member states can still ban people, it's in the small print of the treaty.
The next one down is "MacA" - military aid to the civil authority eg. helping out such as the green goddesses.
And a resounding "yes" to the wearing of uniform, as you say together with a personal weapon.
I'm not one to provoke, but no wonder extremists hate Britain when argumentative young white girls go walking the streets of their home towns with nothing on. Tut, tut*
*It's doing the rounds of Facebook. She's quite brave actually!
'Oh good, the govt managed to reduce the number of students coming to the UK by 56,000 and it's a triumph.'
Surprised it's not more after the hundreds of bogus colleges Labour allowed to thrive have finally been closed.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BK7-iz4CAAAvvMj.jpg:large
It is understood that the British decision to abstain during the EU vote, effectively opening the door to the ban, was taken by a head of department level official in the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, raising questions over whether ministerial consent was given
Not exactly 'behind' the ban!
http://the-tap.blogspot.co.uk/2013/05/something-odd-about-woolwich-incident.html
- Those coming for work reasons is largely unchanged, down just 4%. (This data seems to be inconsistent between worksheets for some reason...)
- Those coming for family reasons have fallen by 19,000, or 23%. Most of this (11,000) was from the New Commonwealth, a category down by 33%
- Students coming from the New Commonwealth have also dropped off strongly, by 49%. As people in Further Ed colleges typically come from the New Commonwealth, this makes sense.
2) The British government abstained, that doesn't make them "behind it"
3) Sympathetic officials is just a sign that our civil servants in Brussels have gone native
I know sam didn't do that in this case, but it happens so often that I like to nip it in the bud.
Mrs T appearing on the conf platform after the Brighton Bombing was the bravest thing I've ever seen a living politician do. It was incredible given what'd gone on the night before and the deaths/injuries to her own cabinet colleagues/family.
Many of those are forgotten nowadays - even Mrs Tebbit is rarely mentioned.
What, 8 pints too many?
Twit.
sky reports that #woolowich attack suspect michael adebolajo was born in lambeth, grew up in east london. went to greenwich uni.
Just a very sad boring observation that I needlessly shared on here!
Can anyone watch that video and not believe this young woman's home town has been wrecked by mass immigration? That may be a minority of Muslims marching to the sound of "UK go to hell", but it's certainly not a tiny one. They are barbaric savages with no appreciation of morality or decency. Where are the establishment politicians speaking out about rallies like this? Nowhere. They prefer to turn a blind eye so as not to raise tension, just as the police turned a blind eye to Muslim men raping white children.
http://the-tap.blogspot.co.uk/2013/05/something-odd-about-woolwich-incident.html
Someone's been murdered.
Peddle your whackjob theories elsewhere Tapestry.
Edit. Whilst isolated snow showers are relatively common on the tops of hills even into June this is very widespread and persistent: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-22631483
This is going to be yet another cold month.
"Gets heavier and the players are coming off Amazingly in May there are now a heavy shower of hailstones!"
Still, should clear soon and Ireland have made a good start!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2328921/David-McGreavy-named-murdering-children-1973.html
Utterly bizzare bullet point 8 regarding 'Boris Johnson's philandering past' in an article involving a sick child murderer ?
'Second victory for Press freedom this week after Appeal Court ruled the public does have a right to know about Boris Johnson's philandering past' might be newsworthy, but to add it to this article ?! Jumped the shark.
Can't see the Top scoring team market up, which is a shame.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=64f_1369272177
Why did ITV news censor it, by talking over this part?
A very weird experience and one I'd never expect to see here in the UK.
circumstances, towards the resort to physical violence, in the form of firearms or
high explosive, as being so probable as to be predicted with virtual certainty. The
experience of the last decade and more, all round the world, shows that acts of
violence, however apparently irrational or inappropriate their targets, precipitate
a frenzied search on the part of the society attacked to discover and remedy more
and more grievances, real or imaginary, among those from whom the violence is
supposed to emanate or on whose behalf it is supposed to be exercised... This is what produces the gearingeffect of terrorism in the contemporary world, yielding huge results from acts of violence perpetrated by minimal numbers. It is not, I repeat again and again, that the mass of a particular population are violently or criminally disposed. Far from it; that
population soon becomes itself the prisoner of the violence and machinations of an
infinitely small minority among it. Just a few thugs, a few shots, a few bombs at the right
place and time—and that is enough for disproportionate consequences to follow."
[It is exciting, though, thanks for sharing sam]
No one but extremists and bullies win by turning a blind-eye to it.