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Thursday’s Sun front page – “We killed this British soldier. It’s an eye for an eye” #tomorrowspaperstoday #Woolwich twitter.com/suttonnick/sta…
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" I find the speculation about the political fortunes of Dave & the Tories as a result of this horrific murder distasteful."
I agree. Yes this is a betting site but it's plain indecent. These incidents really show up the instant comment culture of today for its tastelessness. At the end of the day a life has been lost for no reason- terribly sad and no way a betting matter.
Britons feeling less worried about their economic prospects as concerns about the speed and size of austerity continue to subside, while perception of austerity's impact on personal lives hits an all-time low
In its annual report on the British Economy, the International Monetary Fund (IMF) praised "nascent signs of momentum" but warned the British government that it was "still a long way from a strong and sustainable recovery". It also said that while the country's fiscal policies had gained its government credibility, the "planned fiscal tightening will be a drag on growth" and Britain should speed up infrastructure spending to "offset" austerity.
YouGov has run polls tracking public perception of austerity measures since they became central to coalition government economic policy in 2010. In a previous study, these polls showed public concerns about government spending cuts had begun to thaw, if slowly, and more recent data has shown this trend continuing. New data also suggests that people are becoming less worried about their own financial situation.
Austerity
In fact, the most recent polling on the effects of austerity finds 54% of Britons perceive the spending cuts as impacting their lives, it's lowest point since YouGov began asking the question in June 2010. This marks a drop of 18 points from the tracker's peak, which occured when 72% said the cuts were having an impact on their lives for three consecutive weeks in March 2011.
The percentage of Britons who think that the cuts are "too deep" has also continued to trend downwards, at 40% most recently after reaching its lowest point since 2010 in March, days before the 2013 Budget was announced.
Economic well-being
Polls tracking the British public's economic outlook outside of the context of austerity reveal that worries about personal economic well-being and job security have also begun to wane.
Britons are still broadly worried about what kind of personal financial situation awaits them in a couple years time. 63% say they worry about about whether in the next two or three years they will have enough money to live comfortably, while 32% say they do not. In comparison, at one point in July of 2011, 76% were worried about their personal financial prospects.
This slight improvement comes one week after the ONS announced that for the first quarter of 2013 UK earnings excluding bonuses grew at the slowest rate (0.8) since the record-taking begain in 2001.
Employment
The quarterly report from the ONS also brought news of an uptick in unemployment, to 2.52 million, leading an ONS spokesperson to tell the BBC that while unemployment had been falling, that period "seems to have come to an end".
Again, public sentiment appears to defy economic trends. In recent weeks, worry about losing their jobs amongs British adults has fallen to two-year lows. As of May 19-20, only 57% worry about losing their jobs or not finding work, down from a highpoint of 67% in 2011.
Improvement in the Britons' views on their own financial prospects has clearly lagged behind rising confidence in austerity measures. However, much of the slight change in personal outlook has occured in the last six months, suggesting that despite the recent uptick in unemployment, "nascent signs of momentum" are present in public opinion too.
In response to the IMF report, Osborne said he would make infrastructure investment "the focus of the spending round next month."
For tracking graphs see:
http://yougov.co.uk/news/2013/05/22/brits-not-feeling-austeritys-bite/
The Woolwich murders were a political act and have political consequences. The authorities are well aware of that and so should we be.
I am a bit surprised to discover (from reports yesterday) that David McGreavy has not been given a whole-life tariff for his crimes. He was originally (in 1973) given a minimum tariff of 20 years, but his crimes were so serious that - in comparison with other similar cases - it would have been reasonable for his tariff to have been increased since then to 40 or 50 years, or whole-life. But he has applied (unsuccessfully) for parole a number of times since 2007, and even spent some time in 2006-7 in a half-way house / parole hostel / in preparation for eventual release
While baby-sitting for three small children (aged 4, 2 and 9 months), he strangled one, stabbed another, and smashed in the skull of a third, and then impaled all three bodies on garden railings.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/david-mcgreavy-monster-worcester-sadistic-1903878
Whether this was specific to Cameron I think unlikely, I suspect he is no more keen on Ed Milliband.
The murder was political.
It is interesting for the purposes of this thread that through most of history negative numbers have been thought "absurd" and results requiring them ignored.
There never was going to be a challenge to Cameron and this has made no difference to that. He will go if and probably when he loses the next election.
As for "rising to the occasion" even in our 24 hour news hysteria Cameron is going to have to watch that the Cobra meeting this morning does not seem an absurd over reaction to a horrific murder. Personally I would cancel it.
They certainly didn't appear rational, by any normal definition.
In other words it's a random act, not part of any campaign, or as the result of an organisation, Possibly comparable with the Boston bombing, although it requires considerably more planning to build bombs than find a couple of knives and machetes.
Are the actions of the cub leader worthy of a George Cross?
It is awarded in recognition of acts of the greatest heroism or of the most conspicuous courage in circumstances of extreme danger.
A civilian walking towards two men who have just committed a brutal murder and who are still armed in order to try to talk to them, is certainly conspicuous courage.
I'd also direct the site toward SSAFA - an excellent and historic services charity doing fine work :
http://www.ssafa.org.uk/get-involved/donate/
It certainly looks a random act by what seem to have been fairly random and delusional people. It is a concern that we have sub sets within our society which are capable of rationalising such behaviour or indeed the far more serious behaviour of 7/7 and the recent bomb threat. Rejection of the more extreme precepts of mulitculturalism and finding ways to properly integrate those communities so they have a sense of belonging and commitment to the values of this country is a long term priority.
But I agree with Southam Observer. This sort of obscene behaviour is designed to evoke responses which can trigger counter responses. My fear is that if we show that two idiots with knives can bring the UK government to a halt we give them a credibility, noteriety and status that they do not deserve and which inspires similarly deluded souls. It should be business as usual this morning for all except the poor, poor family of that dead soldier whose lives will never be the same.
"In order that they should be worthily and promptly recognised, I have decided to create, at once, a new mark of honour for men and women in all walks of civilian life. I propose to give my name to this new distinction, which will consist of the George Cross, which will rank next to the Victoria Cross, and the George Medal for wider distribution."
I think today would be reasonably prompt and appropriate.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/10073042/Prime-number-breakthrough-by-unknown-professor.html
I am confused because, if the report is accurate, then it would mean that the conjecture has been proved - not merely that it has been shown to be more likely.
"Mathematicians have long theorised that there is an infinite number of twin primes [...] but have never been able to prove it.
Dr Zhang took a major step towards doing so, however, by demonstrating that no matter how large a twin prime is, there will always be another pair of primes separated from it by less than 70 million.
Although his paper does not conclusively show that there is an infinite number of twin primes, it effectively proves that the gaps between prime pairs does not keep on growing to an infinite size."
IIRC the brave baggage handler at the Glasgow Airport terrorist incident in 2007 was awarded the QGM.
Edited :
John Smeaton QGM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Smeaton_ (born_1976)
Apologies the link for some reason directs to the wrong John Smeaton but itself links to the correct one !!
"Rejection of the more extreme precepts of mulitculturalism and finding ways to properly integrate those communities so they have a sense of belonging and commitment to the values of this country is a long term priority."
Sadly, it is a feature of islam in many of it's forms, including what is sold to us as
moderate, that a sharp distinction is drawn between believer and unbelievers. The concept of all believers being brothers sounds very nice and friendly, but the downside of course is that the rest of us aren't - humanity is split into 2.
This lead to British youths of Pakistani parentage in Luton taking sides emphatically in land disputes in the Middle East. I'd like to see this challenged more, from within islam and from outside, but I dont expect it to happen. Our leaders, in Tony Blair fashion, tend to cherry-pick the islamic ideas that they like, and then tell us what true islam is.
Discipline is a party leadership not abusing its memebers and voters.
Discipline is a Chancellor properly preparing his budget rather than poncing around the USA.
Discipline is a party leader appointing people on merit not background.
Discipline is like loyalty, a two way process.
To earn it you have to show it and a leader needs to set an example.
Without that then demanding discipling is nothing more than demanding forelock tugging and cheerleading.
"The root of the problem is that Cameron, for all his laudable courage over gay marriage, has an ambiguous relationship with his party. For Blair, the relationship was no such thing: he thought that the Labour movement was full of “unreconstructed wankers”. In contrast, Cameron was a cradle Tory and, in his manner, appearance and background, soothed the party as its prospective leader.
“He’ll win because they [the members] want their daughters to marry someone like him,” is how one of Cameron’s supporters in 2005, now a senior Cabinet minister, described his chances to me. The activists heard a moderniser — “change to win” — but saw one of their own.
It is too easily forgotten that Cameron’s victory seven-and-a-half years ago was partly made possible by the support of many members of the deeply traditionalist Cornerstone Group of Tory MPs (president: E Leigh) who were convinced that, beneath all the fancy metropolitan “rebranding”, he was a social conservative, “compassionate” like Iain Duncan Smith, rather than exotic and “modernising” like Michael Portillo. They also believed he was a true Eurosceptic..."
Your desire for "discipline" is noted. Pass your details onto "Peter the Punter" for appropriate enforcement.
The brutal killing in Woolwich of a man thought to be a serving soldier has chilling echoes of a foiled 2007 plot by a fanatic to kidnap and behead a British Muslim soldier "like a pig". http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/10074888/Woolwich-attack-echoes-of-foiled-2007-plot-to-behead-soldier-like-a-pig.html
Is 'Louise' still used or would 'Mensch' now be more fashionable ?
Johnson Beharry was awarded one in Afghanistan for extreme bravery:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnson_Beharry
Whether the GC or QGM, from what I have heard so far, she deserves some recognition.
My favourite GC (if you can have a 'favourite') is the one awarded to John Axon, a train driver who remained in his cab after his train brakes failed, trying to shut the regulator to stop the train despite scalding steam. He could have joined his fireman in jumping off the footplate, but he kept on trying to stop the train.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Axon
The BBC wrote a ballad about him.
"This is a truly barbaric act that has no basis in Islam and we condemn this unreservedly. Our thoughts are with the victim and his family. We understand the victim is a serving member of the armed forces. Muslims have long served in this country’s armed forces, proudly and with honour. This attack on a member of the armed forces is dishonourable, and no cause justifies this murder.
This action will no doubt heighten tensions on the streets of the United Kingdom. We call on all our communities, Muslim and non-Muslim, to come together in solidarity to ensure the forces of hatred do not prevail. It is important we allow our police authorities to do their job without speculation. We also urge the utmost vigilance and ask the police authorities to calm tensions."
An award to the scout leader is absolutely obvious, and it's not really true that it's impossible to get the VC equivalent of the GC without dying - there was at least one VC for a survivor on the Falklands as I recall (for that matter my godfather got it for attacking the Scharnhorst in a Swordfish plane, and he lived to a ripe old age). There are times for restraint in generosity but in this case I think a GC would be a good gesture which would make a lot of people feel better.
Well Plato, those conservative grandees were completely wrong about their man, and they are completely wrong of how to change and advance this country.
Regarding earlier talk about that woman who went up to and spoke to one of the killers yesterday. I don't think that this woman knew what had happened exactly, (confirmed my the news sheets) so it wasn't bravery, rather naivety and ignorance that caused her to talk to the man. Mind you, medals have been won for less.
"An award to the scout leader is absolutely obvious, and it's not really true that it's impossible to get the VC equivalent of the GC without dying - there was at least one VC for a survivor on the Falklands as I recall (for that matter my godfather got it for attacking the Scharnhorst in a Swordfish plane, and he lived to a ripe old age). There are times for restraint in generosity but in this case I think a GC would be a good gesture which would make a lot of people feel better."
That's incorrect Nick.
Both Falkland VC's - Col H Jones and Sgt Ian Mckay perished in action.
You might be thinking of Private Johnson Beharry who survived the 2005 action in Iraq that saw him awarded the VC.
11 comments on pb2's early Monaco discussion, 3 of which are genuine. Here's mine:
"Di Resta's a maybe for me, but I'd not back your Vettel tip. Perez looks interesting. Here's the Spain sector 3 times, apparently a good guide to Monaco:
http://www.formula1.com/results/season/2013/897/7298/best_sector_times.html
Perez is 4th, behind only the Mercedes and Vettel."
Incidentally, if Monaco has a safety car (highly likely) then it'd be the first of the year.
"When the old pistol was shot towards police it backfired and blew the thumb off one of the men."
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2329089/Woolwich-attack-Two-men-hack-soldier-wearing-Help-Heroes-T-shirt-death-machetes-suspected-terror-attack.html#ixzz2U683Oq6H
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
The disclosure came as the Department for Education granted approval for one military-style school in Oldham – the first of its kind in the UK.
Under plans, The Phoenix Free School will open from September 2014 staffed by former members of the Armed Forces and led by a serving Army captain.
...Under plans, the Phoenix school will open in Oldham in September 2014 as the first such venture in the UK. It will take children aged 11-to-18.
Its main backers include Captain AK Burki, a member of the Army’s Counterinsurgency Centre, who recently served in Afghanistan, and Tom Burkard, professor of education policy at Derby University and a former instructor in the Royal Pioneer Corps.
The school says it will provide a full curriculum and adopt a zero-tolerance approach to behaviour.
“Our teachers will embody the Army’s core values of moral courage, self-discipline, respect for others, integrity, and loyalty,” the school’s website says. “They will all be trained in the military ‘Methods of Instruction’ syllabus – and they will all know their jobs.” " http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/10020710/Coalition-plan-for-network-of-military-style-state-schools.html
Many of his backbenchers seem to conveniently forget this.
I have with sympathy with the John Redwood's of this world who probably wouldn't have entered into a coalition in the first place (for economic reasons, rather than - at that stage - EU or gay marriage ones) because he has always been consistent in his ideology. There are many like him. But there are also plenty of dumb, emotional agitators who wanted power, hailed the coalition with the Lib Dems and are now disgusted at the lack of right-wing policies. Well, duh?!
If the Conservative party gets together and decides it wants OUT of the EU, garners a wing-to-wing agreement about it and puts forwards and in/out bill for this parliament, then fair enough, all power to them. But it will end the coalition. And after that, there will be no confidence and supply, so the government will effectively cease to operate properly. And then, to top it all off, they would lose a vote in parliament over offering an in/out referendum because they don't have enough MPs to carry it.
Ergo, I can see quite clearly why Cameron is doing what he's doing. He's taken the emotion out of it. He's taken ideology out of it. He's just trying to keep the coalition together for a parliament, hoping he'll have an economic story to sell come April 2015, and hopes to win the next GE. After that, he can give his backbenchers the referendum.
That's what I think anyway, and I'm no Cameron cheerleader. Politics is as much about compromise as it is about ideology. Especially in a democracy as tolerant and subtle and so lacking in extremes as ours.
If one group belonging to islam sees itself as soldiers of faith then it means that stereotyping will sadly become necessary.
Hate the idea but cannot see how it can be ignored. If I was a soldier and I saw two "foreign" people walking towards me then I suspect I would now cross the road.
Norwegian nuns are less dangerous than young Islamic men. And need to be judged as such. Wearing Territorial Army uniforms looks a brave move in some areas. All sad but true.
What on earth is Lord Ashcroft talking about?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eBT6OSr1TI
Some other thoughts. The LD's probably feel that they are in quite a comfortable position. They can agitate against and block any legislation they don't like with the knowledge that this stance puts them more in the labour camp and more attractive as a coalition partner after the next GE. I think they have already discounted the possibility of a Tory major party after the GE and are therefore positioning themselves to stay with some fingernails on the reins of power.
On a day to day basis in the British armed forces the holder of a VC enjoys no seniority outside of their rank. It has become a custom, although not in QR's for a VC holder to receive a salute from any rank. A similar situation occurs in the US armed forces with Medal of Honour holders of which there are many more surviving members and some still serving.
No wonder the British people are sick to the back teeth of politicians.
It is inevitable that at some point actual cuts will need to be made in the big sacred cows of health, education and welfare. Whether that happens before or after 2015 remains to be seen but politically it wont be popular.
Meanwhile events in Japan show yet again that you can't fix a solvency crisis with extra liquidity. The extra liquidity merely acts as a drug while the fundamental problem worsens.
(I might be thinking of a few of the Australian and New Zealanders who have won the Australian and New Zealand VCs since 1991).
Perhaps he'd like to put his inheritance tax planning history up for public perusal.
That it was *only one soldier* is missing the point of it all - it was an execution of the most vile kind,on a public st in the middle of the afternoon.
It is of course quite easy to work out a region of numbers where there are no primes for 70 million successive numbers. (multiply all the prime numbers less than 70 million together and then add 2 - proof left to student) - however this is not a contra-example to the proof since there is no evidence that this number -1 and this number -3 are twin primes.
if this is not clear, consider 2 * 3 * 5 * 7 = 210. This caters for all numbers less than 11
211 is either prime or divisible by primes greater than 7 (Euclid)
212 divides by 2
213 divides by 3
214 divides by 2
215 divides by 5
216 divides by 6
217 divides by 7
218 divides by 2
219 divides by 3
220 divides by 10
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Payne
EZ GDP and Comp #PMI compared. Recession seems to be extending into Q2 twitpic.com/csk35v
https://twitpic.com/show/full/csk35v
Suffice to say that it would make it quite complicated on a day-to-day in barracks or public duties situation.
On the battlefield/in wartime/on operations it is a different kettle of badgers.
JIHADISTS said the idea of a woman being in charge of young males in uniform was driving them crazy.
As cub scout leader Ingrid Loyau-Kennett stood in for the police in Woolwich yesterday, militant Islamists said she was ‘probably a symbol of western depravity, or something’.
Ahmed Tareen, from the Peshawar branch of Al Qaeda, said: “It shows just how low your society has sunk when a woman can be cheeky to a brave jihadist in a public street and then tell young men what to do, as if they were little girls.
“In jihadist philosophy the woggle is a symbol of man’s dominion over woman.
“Then again, if your men were like this I suppose everything might be different. Tareen then sat under a tree for half an hour before adding: “No, I’ve thought about it, and it is clear that this woman is insolent and disgusting.
“And she was wearing what I think you call a ‘body-warmer’. She may as well have been naked. You live in a sewer.”
“I don’t know. I’m really confused now. Tareen then paused and said: “But actually, d’you know what? I could really do with someone as calm and sensible as that in my life. ” http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/war/idea-of-female-cub-scout-leader-is-doing-al-qaedas-head-in-2013052369726
Which word do you use with Matron ;-)
The one exception to this was the fuel crisis in 2000, but I think that was because the public held the Government to be responsible for the crisis due to the large increases in fuel duty/lack of a response.
It is very unlikely that the Government will be blamed for what happened yesterday.
As @SeanT noted on FPT, he got shedloads of very angry emails and comments on his DT article about grooming et al - there's still many angry people out there who are understandably very unhappy at what they feel has been a culture of appeasement by many politicians. Whether they are correct or not is neither here nor there as they feel its true.
They were differentiating between what, in their warped minds, were 'legitimate' targets (people employed by the military/police) and 'illegitimate' targets (people who happen to be wandering past.
In the past (7/7) terrorist attacks deliberately targeted areas packed with civilians to maximise the death toll.
The resurgence in Irish terrorism has also closely targeted members of the police and military. I wonder if the shooting outside a barracks in Northern Ireland influenced the tactics of this attack.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/may/22/woolwich-first-person-account
It's thought that by tinkering with the proof, that 70 million can be reduced, possibly down to double digits, but not all the way to two.
On Woolwich, a significant political impact seems unlikely, because all the major parties are pretty sound on anti-terrorism. At most, the tabloids might be able to find some local councillor willing to say something outrageous, which their party will condemn, but even that would soon blow over.
@MotoClark
Help for Heroes collecting at Piccadilly Circus tube. They're gonna need extra buckets. Amazing response.
There is the George Cross and George Medal which is for 'bravery not in the face of the enemy', the medal does get awarded to civilians in situations like the one yesterday.
That's the one thing that reassures me about yesterday: person gets off a bus, tries to do the best they can in the face of, well, carnage.
Clearly VC's that were awarded before Australia and New Zealand awarded their own were simply VC's as there were no other.
It gave a whole new meaning to Keep Calm and Carry On...
It is probably not as rare as you think. For a quick example of the 6 VCs awarded to men from my alma mater 3 died in the action they were awarded for and three survived (although one was unfortunately shot by a sniper soon after).
My expectation is that in the immediate aftermath of the event itself, over the next few days, they'll be a certain amount of instinctive rallying to the flag which will express itself as a polling bump for the Government.
ONS @statisticsONS
#GDP grew 0.3% in Q1 2013, unrevised from previous estimate bit.ly/12LCWGg
"The VCs were awarded on the recommendation of the C-in-C Mediterranean, Admiral Sir Andrew Cunningham, but were opposed by the Honours and Awards Committee in London, which argued that the acts of bravery had not been performed in the presence of the enemy, as VC Warrants stipulated, and that the George Cross would be more appropriate. Cunningham, however, retorted that two large enemy bombs, in a submarine off an enemy coastline, constituted quite enough enemy presence."
Ben @00mydriatic
In 2012 lefties justified a week of rioting after a gangster was shot by police, but today vilify 150 protesters after a street beheading
Men in Balaclavas Offer Soothing Prospect of War
Professor Henry Brubaker said: “History, and also common sense, tells us that in any situation the person whose features are disguised by a stupid hat is not the person you should listen to.
“In fact masks in general, whether tight-fitting on part of a white pointy hat, are a good indicator of insanity, unless it’s Halloween or you’re at an elite fictional orgy.
Muslim father-of-two Rafi Ahmed said: “As far as I’m aware, I’ve got no plans to bring Western civilisation to its knees.
“I’ll probably go to work, come home and eat my tea.”
They've some very good writers, taking a hideous event and producing two articles that are satirical, funny, and thought-provoking without seeming ghoulish or insensitive.
I was saying the opposite! At the idiotic risk of continuing this wholly fatuous discussion, I'm not sure about the SOPs in your regiment but in mine the presence of a VC holder in peacetime in barracks would, we speculated, have been a cause of some complication.
That'd be my definition - not crazy at all.
At least he cant be accused of hysterical overreaction
http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/67764000/jpg/_67764726_woolwich.jpg definitely worth a medal. Selfless actions to save others.