I am 100% serious in suggesting that @Keir_Starmer announce that HS2 will be built to Manchester and that Labour will rename it the King Charles Railway
Ugh. We could name it after someone who's done something better for the country. Brunel, Pankhurst, Lineker, Austen. Anything but some fucking sausage-fingered monarch.
I sense we are in for a complex philosophical debate over whether, if a high speed rail line from point A stops being high speed past point B, it can still be claimed to be a high speed rail line to point C.
My instinct is no…
My dim memory recalls that the definition of a 'high speed' railway for upgraded lines is 124 MPH; for new lines 155 MPH. Might be wrong, though.
One of the earliest and most lifelike examples of a human sculpture – depicting a man holding his phallus with both hands – has been uncovered by archaeologists in Turkey.
The unusual 7.5ft (2.3m)-tall statue was discovered at a prehistoric site known as Karahan Tepe
The DM has a remarkably astute observation about the meaning of these things, especially startling because no-one would ever have thought it before:
"Phalluses typically symbolises fertility or potency."
The grammar is original DM, not mine. It does raise an interesting issue about the plural of phallus which I am sure PBers can sort.
Phalluses is fine. You can use Latin plurals if you like, but they tend to make people feel a bit disconcerted and it takes away from what you're trying to communicate by causing the reader to focus on the grammar. Linguists call this phenomenon the "uncanny phalli".
You do need to check if it is second or fourth declension. It's second declension, so the plural is phalli, not phallus.
I bow before your towering phallus grammatical knowledge
in Our Nation's Capital approx 20 minutes until debate ends and voting begins in US House, on motion to vacate the office of Speaker thus removing Kevin McCarthy.
This roll call will be a voice vote, in alpha order, as per vote to elected KMcC in the first place.
You give them too much credit. Most of Birmingham-Manchester is 110mph.
Not quite correct. HS stock has such rapid acceleration they could still do 125mph.
I think the linespeed is substantially 110mph, though, isn't it? I haven't really got the energy to look through the Sectional Appendix after a pint and a half of Cotswold Voodoo cider, but a quick google suggests that Coven-southern Stafford and Sandbach-Cheadle Hulme are 125mph, and the rest is 110mph or less.
I am 100% serious in suggesting that @Keir_Starmer announce that HS2 will be built to Manchester and that Labour will rename it the King Charles Railway
Ugh. We could name it after someone who's done something better for the country. Brunel, Pankhurst, Lineker, Austen. Anything but some fucking sausage-fingered monarch.
To Manchester? Not Austen. Name it after the Manchester based author of North and South: welcome to The Mrs Gaskell Line.
One of the earliest and most lifelike examples of a human sculpture – depicting a man holding his phallus with both hands – has been uncovered by archaeologists in Turkey.
The unusual 7.5ft (2.3m)-tall statue was discovered at a prehistoric site known as Karahan Tepe
The DM has a remarkably astute observation about the meaning of these things, especially startling because no-one would ever have thought it before:
"Phalluses typically symbolises fertility or potency."
The grammar is original DM, not mine. It does raise an interesting issue about the plural of phallus which I am sure PBers can sort.
Phalluses is fine. You can use Latin plurals if you like, but they tend to make people feel a bit disconcerted and it takes away from what you're trying to communicate by causing the reader to focus on the grammar. Linguists call this phenomenon the "uncanny phalli".
Does this work with non Latin irregulars? Oxes, gooses, louses, foots, sheeps? These irregulars work their way into the language unnoticed and as quiet as mouses.
I am 100% serious in suggesting that @Keir_Starmer announce that HS2 will be built to Manchester and that Labour will rename it the King Charles Railway
Ugh. We could name it after someone who's done something better for the country. Brunel, Pankhurst, Lineker, Austen. Anything but some fucking sausage-fingered monarch.
Stephenson or Smeaton would make sense.
Make it Stephenson G and John Locke *together*. They did the Grand Junction Railway (Brum to L&M). Smeaton was a canal chappie wasn't he?
That’s interesting spin by them. HS2 will go to Manchester, but on the existing WCML and not at high speed. But it’ll still be HS2, honest.
To bw fair, Crossrail (the Elizabeth Line) runs on pre-exiting track from Shenfield to Stratford and then diverts on to the "new bit" to Paddington and rejoins the pre-existing line west of Paddington.
It's a common tactic (Croydon Tramlink did the same in places). The suggestions for the north-south cross-London link (HS3?) use a lot of existing track with the main construction new tunnels in the capital.
The question then becomes whether you can offer something better than what currently exists - it doesn't have to be quicker butn it has to be reliable and a decent experience for the passenger.
Immediate question comes to mind - are the two systems compatible signalling wise? IANAE so don't have a clue, but high speed trains do tend to have modern signalling kit, communications, automatic train protection, etc. which the existing line may well not.
Ditto catenaries and power supplies.
And what happens about the existing Manc-London trains? What happens to the stations en route?
This is too much like the original pissing about with HS1 - it went ultra fast in Franve and then trundled slowly through Kent to Waterloo, as President Mitterrand said to admire the English scenery.
HS2 was always planned to have two fleets of trains - one for the high-speed route only ('captive'), and 'classic-compatible' ones that could run to other places on the wider railway network.
I am 100% serious in suggesting that @Keir_Starmer announce that HS2 will be built to Manchester and that Labour will rename it the King Charles Railway
NYT - Speaker Kevin McCarthy has lost the vote to kill Representatives Matt Gaetz’s bid to oust him, 208 to 218. That tees an up-or-down vote to remove McCarthy.
He doesn’t deserve support. His futile attempts to ameliorate these nutters condemns him.
But what comes next?
Hopefully a mess where the GOP cannot select a new Speaker until they are thrown out of office.
So the Government shuts down in about 42 days and stays shut down for 15 months?
The continuance that McCarthy passed was for 45 days.
Worst party conference from a ruling party ever? Has to be in the running.
2017 Tory one takes some beating. The P45, the falling letters, the cough sweets.
Yeah, this is worse. The May conference I seem to recall feeling a mix of bemusement and a little bit of sympathy to May. This one is just disdain and counting down the days til they are kicked out.
I am 100% serious in suggesting that @Keir_Starmer announce that HS2 will be built to Manchester and that Labour will rename it the King Charles Railway
Ugh. We could name it after someone who's done something better for the country. Brunel, Pankhurst, Lineker, Austen. Anything but some fucking sausage-fingered monarch.
Stephenson or Smeaton would make sense.
Make it Stephenson G and John Locke *together*. They did the Grand Junction Railway (Brum to L&M). Smeaton was a canal chappie wasn't he?
Name it after the developer of one of the first railways, obvs. I mean, one that linked two sides of the Pennines might come to mind. 'Josias Jessop', perhaps?
That’s interesting spin by them. HS2 will go to Manchester, but on the existing WCML and not at high speed. But it’ll still be HS2, honest.
To bw fair, Crossrail (the Elizabeth Line) runs on pre-exiting track from Shenfield to Stratford and then diverts on to the "new bit" to Paddington and rejoins the pre-existing line west of Paddington.
It's a common tactic (Croydon Tramlink did the same in places). The suggestions for the north-south cross-London link (HS3?) use a lot of existing track with the main construction new tunnels in the capital.
The question then becomes whether you can offer something better than what currently exists - it doesn't have to be quicker butn it has to be reliable and a decent experience for the passenger.
Immediate question comes to mind - are the two systems compatible signalling wise? IANAE so don't have a clue, but high speed trains do tend to have modern signalling kit, communications, automatic train protection, etc. which the existing line may well not.
Ditto catenaries and power supplies.
And what happens about the existing Manc-London trains? What happens to the stations en route?
This is too much like the original pissing about with HS1 - it went ultra fast in Franve and then trundled slowly through Kent to Waterloo, as President Mitterrand said to admire the English scenery.
HS2 was always planned to have two fleets of trains - one for the high-speed route only ('captive'), and 'classic-compatible' ones that could run to other places on the wider railway network.
That makes sense for the longer distance runs north of Wigan Pier and York. But this? They'll be tearing up the contracts, which costs in itself, and making all the trains more expensive now, like when they CBA to electrify [edit] all of the GW main line and had to insist that electric tyrains effectively carry a diesel loco around with them all the time.
I am 100% serious in suggesting that @Keir_Starmer announce that HS2 will be built to Manchester and that Labour will rename it the King Charles Railway
Ugh. We could name it after someone who's done something better for the country. Brunel, Pankhurst, Lineker, Austen. Anything but some fucking sausage-fingered monarch.
Stephenson or Smeaton would make sense.
Make it Stephenson G and John Locke *together*. They did the Grand Junction Railway (Brum to L&M). Smeaton was a canal chappie wasn't he?
Name it after the developer of one of the first railways, obvs. I mean, one that linked two sides of the Pennines might come to mind. 'Josias Jessop', perhaps?
I am 100% serious in suggesting that @Keir_Starmer announce that HS2 will be built to Manchester and that Labour will rename it the King Charles Railway
Yes, it was meant to be a provocation. Last-but-one position is always the most effective, and you need at least (in fact ideally) four in the list. Two before to establish the list, one after to mask what you've just done.
I thought about using Letby or West, which would have been funnier but would have weakened the point I'm trying to make.
Lastly, I stand by the list. Lineker has done more for this country than Chucky Three. But I don't really think I'd name a train line after him.
You give them too much credit. Most of Birmingham-Manchester is 110mph.
Not quite correct. HS stock has such rapid acceleration they could still do 125mph.
I think the linespeed is substantially 110mph, though, isn't it? I haven't really got the energy to look through the Sectional Appendix after a pint and a half of Cotswold Voodoo cider, but a quick google suggests that Coven-southern Stafford and Sandbach-Cheadle Hulme are 125mph, and the rest is 110mph or less.
Surely even Sunak wouldn't be mad enough to pretend he could send trains through HS trains through Coven. You'd have to path them through New Street or build tracks round it, both of which are about as plausible as Dominic Cummings having an intelligent idea on any given topic.
I am 100% serious in suggesting that @Keir_Starmer announce that HS2 will be built to Manchester and that Labour will rename it the King Charles Railway
Ugh. We could name it after someone who's done something better for the country. Brunel, Pankhurst, Lineker, Austen. Anything but some fucking sausage-fingered monarch.
Stephenson or Smeaton would make sense.
Make it Stephenson G and John Locke *together*. They did the Grand Junction Railway (Brum to L&M). Smeaton was a canal chappie wasn't he?
A great civil engineer, if not a railway engineer. Northern lad too.
I am 100% serious in suggesting that @Keir_Starmer announce that HS2 will be built to Manchester and that Labour will rename it the King Charles Railway
Ugh. We could name it after someone who's done something better for the country. Brunel, Pankhurst, Lineker, Austen. Anything but some fucking sausage-fingered monarch.
Stephenson or Smeaton would make sense.
Make it Stephenson G and John Locke *together*. They did the Grand Junction Railway (Brum to L&M). Smeaton was a canal chappie wasn't he?
A great civil engineer, if not a railway engineer. Northern lad too.
Locke was great too. Especially for the shareholders. IIRC he didn't make the screwups Stephenson G and Brunel IK sometiomes did.
I am 100% serious in suggesting that @Keir_Starmer announce that HS2 will be built to Manchester and that Labour will rename it the King Charles Railway
Ugh. We could name it after someone who's done something better for the country. Brunel, Pankhurst, Lineker, Austen. Anything but some fucking sausage-fingered monarch.
Stephenson or Smeaton would make sense.
Make it Stephenson G and John Locke *together*. They did the Grand Junction Railway (Brum to L&M). Smeaton was a canal chappie wasn't he?
Smeaton was one of those annoying people who was good at everything. Around Newark he is known for building 'Smeaton's Arches' - a raised section of the Great North road which crosses the Trent floodplain. But he also built canals, bridges, harbours, mills and lighthouses as well as devising some of the equations which would eventually help the Wright Brothers to take to the air. A remarkable and largely unsung hero of the industrial revolution.
I am 100% serious in suggesting that @Keir_Starmer announce that HS2 will be built to Manchester and that Labour will rename it the King Charles Railway
Ugh. We could name it after someone who's done something better for the country. Brunel, Pankhurst, Lineker, Austen. Anything but some fucking sausage-fingered monarch.
Stephenson or Smeaton would make sense.
Make it Stephenson G and John Locke *together*. They did the Grand Junction Railway (Brum to L&M). Smeaton was a canal chappie wasn't he?
Smeaton was one of those annoying people who was good at everything. Around Newark he is known for building 'Smeaton's Arches' - a raised section of the Great North road which crosses the Trent floodplain. But he also built canals, bridges, harbous, mills and lighthouses as well as devising some of the equations which would eventually help the Wright Brothers to take to the air. A remarkable and largely unsung hero of the industrial revolution.
I must find a decent biog of him - I seem to have one of most of the others.
I am 100% serious in suggesting that @Keir_Starmer announce that HS2 will be built to Manchester and that Labour will rename it the King Charles Railway
Ugh. We could name it after someone who's done something better for the country. Brunel, Pankhurst, Lineker, Austen. Anything but some fucking sausage-fingered monarch.
To Manchester? Not Austen. Name it after the Manchester based author of North and South: welcome to The Mrs Gaskell Line.
Cranford “The railway is coming!” Manchester “No it isn’t!”
I am 100% serious in suggesting that @Keir_Starmer announce that HS2 will be built to Manchester and that Labour will rename it the King Charles Railway
Ugh. We could name it after someone who's done something better for the country. Brunel, Pankhurst, Lineker, Austen. Anything but some fucking sausage-fingered monarch.
Stephenson or Smeaton would make sense.
Poor old Joseph Locke, who actually built the line from Birmingham to Manchester and north to Glasgow, being unfairly neglected yet again.
I am 100% serious in suggesting that @Keir_Starmer announce that HS2 will be built to Manchester and that Labour will rename it the King Charles Railway
I am 100% serious in suggesting that @Keir_Starmer announce that HS2 will be built to Manchester and that Labour will rename it the King Charles Railway
Ugh. We could name it after someone who's done something better for the country. Brunel, Pankhurst, Lineker, Austen. Anything but some fucking sausage-fingered monarch.
Stephenson or Smeaton would make sense.
Poor old Joseph Locke, who actually built the line from Birmingham to Manchester and north to Glasgow, being unfairly neglected yet again.
I am 100% serious in suggesting that @Keir_Starmer announce that HS2 will be built to Manchester and that Labour will rename it the King Charles Railway
Ugh. We could name it after someone who's done something better for the country. Brunel, Pankhurst, Lineker, Austen. Anything but some fucking sausage-fingered monarch.
Stephenson or Smeaton would make sense.
Make it Stephenson G and John Locke *together*. They did the Grand Junction Railway (Brum to L&M). Smeaton was a canal chappie wasn't he?
Stephenson didn't build the Grand Junction. He was fired as chief engineer before building commenced for incompetence.
I am 100% serious in suggesting that @Keir_Starmer announce that HS2 will be built to Manchester and that Labour will rename it the King Charles Railway
Ugh. We could name it after someone who's done something better for the country. Brunel, Pankhurst, Lineker, Austen. Anything but some fucking sausage-fingered monarch.
Stephenson or Smeaton would make sense.
Make it Stephenson G and John Locke *together*. They did the Grand Junction Railway (Brum to L&M). Smeaton was a canal chappie wasn't he?
Stephenson didn't build the Grand Junction. He was fired as chief engineer before building commenced for incompetence.
I did remember something of the sort but not the details so thanks!
I am 100% serious in suggesting that @Keir_Starmer announce that HS2 will be built to Manchester and that Labour will rename it the King Charles Railway
Ugh. We could name it after someone who's done something better for the country. Brunel, Pankhurst, Lineker, Austen. Anything but some fucking sausage-fingered monarch.
Stephenson or Smeaton would make sense.
Poor old Joseph Locke, who actually built the line from Birmingham to Manchester and north to Glasgow, being unfairly neglected yet again.
I know just how he felt.
Poor old Carnyx, the man who first mentioned Joseph Locke on this thread, being unfairly usurped yet again.
I think Sunak is going to have to reveal his plan in advance of the speech - how can he possibly do a leader's speech AND do a pitch of his new plan for Northern infrastructure at the same time? Will he do a powerpoint? He almost needs to do two speeches.
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 20m Large numbers of people leaving Tory conference tonight because there are no trains tomorrow. Thereby missing the PM’s speech announcing the axing of the Manchester rail upgrade. Historians will write entire chapters on the events of the past two weeks…
What’s Rishi going to say that will get the audience to its feet?
Except perhaps, “the last train to London leaves in fifteen minutes….”
I am 100% serious in suggesting that @Keir_Starmer announce that HS2 will be built to Manchester and that Labour will rename it the King Charles Railway
Ugh. We could name it after someone who's done something better for the country. Brunel, Pankhurst, Lineker, Austen. Anything but some fucking sausage-fingered monarch.
Stephenson or Smeaton would make sense.
Poor old Joseph Locke, who actually built the line from Birmingham to Manchester and north to Glasgow, being unfairly neglected yet again.
I know just how he felt.
Poor old Carnyx, the man who first mentioned Joseph Locke on this thread, being unfairly usurped yet again.
(Is that a good enough crawl?)
It's a serious point though that Brunel gets all the attention and Stephenson G too, but look where the Locke shareholders ended up.
I am 100% serious in suggesting that @Keir_Starmer announce that HS2 will be built to Manchester and that Labour will rename it the King Charles Railway
Ugh. We could name it after someone who's done something better for the country. Brunel, Pankhurst, Lineker, Austen. Anything but some fucking sausage-fingered monarch.
Stephenson or Smeaton would make sense.
Make it Stephenson G and John Locke *together*. They did the Grand Junction Railway (Brum to L&M). Smeaton was a canal chappie wasn't he?
Stephenson didn't build the Grand Junction. He was fired as chief engineer before building commenced for incompetence.
I did remember something of the sort but not the details so thanks!
As I recall the last straw was the Penk Viaduct, which he had estimated would cost £5,000 but for which the lowest tender received was slightly higher than his estimate for building the whole section of line he had been allocated.
You give them too much credit. Most of Birmingham-Manchester is 110mph.
Not quite correct. HS stock has such rapid acceleration they could still do 125mph on the WCML. Indeed, the current Hitachi 801s can, and I think the 745s can as well, although they're not currently allowed to.
The much bigger problem being there would need to be several changes:
1) There's no link at Birmingham. The link is at Handsacre near Lichfield. So there would need to be major and rather expensive changes to the layout of Curzon Street;
2) The section to Crewe has already been authorised and construction begun so primary legislation would be needed to halt it - the debate might be embarrassing for the government;
3) Without HS2 even the farcical IRP can't be honoured, revealing Grant Shapps to be an even bigger and more incompetent liar than we already all thought he was. That might lead to him being kicked out of Parliament (we can but hope. Makes Johnson look honest).
Don't follow 1. Birmingham was always on a branch off the main HS2 and will remain thus. No Hs2 trains were ever going to run through Brum to Manchester. Handsacre was always on the route to Manchester, now it will be where HS2 ends and ties in to existing WCML.
On 2 I'm not aware that any phase 2a work has started. That was paused months ago.
Considering OGH's many contributions AND ongoing struggles of UK to connect with itself, respectfully pray, that when my long-standing dream of a Pneumatic Tube connecting Woolwich with Wick in less than ten minutes - WOOSH! - that the Bedford way station be named the Smithson Spout.
Comments
The one where Gordo U-turned on the GE announcement had similar feel of yes, no, no decision, erhhhh..after briefing all the media there would be one.
new HS2 logo just dropped
This roll call will be a voice vote, in alpha order, as per vote to elected KMcC in the first place.
Hosting it in a city you have just decided to cut off from the nation’s biggest infrastructure project since the motorways.
A hero’s welcome for a man who has spent two decades campaigning against you from your right flank.
A policy platform based on opposition to your own party’s prior legislation.
The uncritical airing of actual conspiracy theories.
There are more.
Was that also the Dancing Queen one?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josias_Jessop
Er ... sorry, see the problem.
I thought about using Letby or West, which would have been funnier but would have weakened the point I'm trying to make.
Lastly, I stand by the list. Lineker has done more for this country than Chucky Three. But I don't really think I'd name a train line after him.
I suspect she wouldn’t, but I sure as hell don’t want to put that to the test.
We have to remember that politicians who trade on “saying the things others won’t” have done rather well for themselves globally in recent years…
In a way, 'incompetent Nazi' feels like a positive outcome of all this.
You have the ones who despair at his antics and are concerned that they will not win because he cannot win and will drag them down.
Then you have the ones who go 'No, he could win, and that's the problem'.
(Is that a good enough crawl?)
Don't follow 1. Birmingham was always on a branch off the main HS2 and will remain thus. No Hs2 trains were ever going to run through Brum to Manchester. Handsacre was always on the route to Manchester, now it will be where HS2 ends and ties in to existing WCML.
On 2 I'm not aware that any phase 2a work has started. That was paused months ago.
The Conservative party under Truss.