NYT - Speaker Kevin McCarthy has lost the vote to kill Representatives Matt Gaetz’s bid to oust him, 208 to 218. That tees an up-or-down vote to remove McCarthy.
He doesn’t deserve support. His futile attempts to ameliorate these nutters condemns him.
But what comes next?
Hopefully a mess where the GOP cannot select a new Speaker until they are thrown out of office.
So the Government shuts down in about 42 days and stays shut down for 15 months?
The continuance that McCarthy passed was for 45 days.
Sounds like they made up on the back of a post-it note over morning coffee....
How will they fit all these extra trains on existing track??
What about freight?
If they could fit more trains on existing track why is there a capacity fucking issue?
Jeez. It is enough to make you weep.
A PM pulls an all-nighter with a couple of spreadsheets and a coke and wrecks an entire generation of rail capacity planning.
How do you get to a conference having not made a decision over a huge complicated infrastructure project, then make up a replacement on the spot.....Its Boris level COVID policy planning.
@HYUFD has predicted the conservative party will turn right post GE24 defeat and we are seeing it on full view in Manchester
This is the bit I don't get. Parties, after long periods in power, go into opposition and seem hippo-like to enjoy a good wallow in the comfy futility thereof.
There comes a point when a party collectively "comes to its senses" and realises the point isn't self-indulgence but trying to provide good governance to improve the lot of the country and every citizen.
It wouldn't surprise me if a future Conservative leader threw Braverman out of the party for being too extreme.
If after multiple defeats but remember Thatcher was thought unelectable and too rightwing in 1975 but won in 1979 given the state of the economy and even Foot also had poll leads in 1980 and 1981 as unemployment rose.
Corbyn too, though well beaten in 2019, got much closer than expected in 2017 and Michael Howard, a hard rightwinger, won most votes in England in 2005 despite overall UK defeat
NYT - Speaker Kevin McCarthy has lost the vote to kill Representatives Matt Gaetz’s bid to oust him, 208 to 218. That tees an up-or-down vote to remove McCarthy.
He doesn’t deserve support. His futile attempts to ameliorate these nutters condemns him.
I don't agree.
He tried to ameliorate the nutters, but he didn't let America go over the cliff and ultimately sided with the Democrats to get a bill through before time ran out even though he couldn't carry Gaetz and other loons.
A bill that had financial support for Ukraine struck out. An utter disgrace.
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 20m Large numbers of people leaving Tory conference tonight because there are no trains tomorrow. Thereby missing the PM’s speech announcing the axing of the Manchester rail upgrade. Historians will write entire chapters on the events of the past two weeks…
Americans certainly do like cheese. If you go to a Walmart there will be aisles and aisles of it - but it will all be about 3 varieties - Jack, Monterey Jack, versions of cheddar. “Philadelphia” - the rest will be different forms of this with different shapes, processing and added bits
What they don’t have is a sophisticated market for cheese nor a taste for runny, pungent, blue, or goaty cheese - ie all the best stuff
But this used to be true of American beer. It used to be universally shit and gassy and pasteurised. Now they have one of the best beer cultures in the world and you can get excellent craft IPA anywhere in the country - a much better selection than most European countries (which will have 3 or 4 predictable beers)
So they may wise up to cheese in a similar way
I think when it comes to food, it is like a lot of US, the two extremes with the "middle" not being great. You have your rich that shop at Whole Foods or regional chains like Publix, which are often a better form of Waitrose...then the other extreme of Walmart / Dollar Tree where they might not even carry any fresh food. The middle like Albertsons are quite shitty in comparison to what we have here.
Our midmarket has traditionally been pretty decent. The US doesn't seem to have the equivalent of Sainsburys, or M&S, or even Tesco.
Likewise on the continent, certainly in France and Spain (Germany a bit more of a fractured market plus Aldi and Lidl). And in France it's really difficult to discern which are the u or non-u chains. Much less of a class system in French supermarkets: Auchan, Leclerc, Carrefour, Intermarche: more variation between stores than between chains.
The US has Ralph’s, Vons and Trader Joe’s
Trader Joe's is literally Aldi. Its a limited selection of every changing goods made under licensing agreements to white label goods. All supermarkets do this to some extent now, but that isn't comparable to say a Sainsbury's supermarket.
If I remember correctly Vons is just Safeway, but in California.
Trader Joe's is not Aldi.
Trader Joe's is - price-wise - only a small step down from Whole Foods. It's customer base is young urban professionals, and if you look where they have stores it is in the wealthier parts of large US cities.
It is owned by one of the Albrecht brothers - Theo maybe?
NYT - Speaker Kevin McCarthy has lost the vote to kill Representatives Matt Gaetz’s bid to oust him, 208 to 218. That tees an up-or-down vote to remove McCarthy.
He doesn’t deserve support. His futile attempts to ameliorate these nutters condemns him.
I don't agree.
He tried to ameliorate the nutters, but he didn't let America go over the cliff and ultimately sided with the Democrats to get a bill through before time ran out even though he couldn't carry Gaetz and other loons.
A bill that had financial support for Ukraine struck out. An utter disgrace.
Yes it is a disgrace, but at least they didn't shut down, and didn't he say he'd bring a Ukraine bill forward separately?
Perhaps the Democrats should say they'll back McCarthy but only if he brings forwards a 15 month bill not a 45 days one, and a Ukraine bill.
NYT - Speaker Kevin McCarthy has lost the vote to kill Representatives Matt Gaetz’s bid to oust him, 208 to 218. That tees an up-or-down vote to remove McCarthy.
He doesn’t deserve support. His futile attempts to ameliorate these nutters condemns him.
But what comes next?
Hopefully a mess where the GOP cannot select a new Speaker until they are thrown out of office.
So the Government shuts down in about 42 days and stays shut down for 15 months?
The continuance that McCarthy passed was for 45 days.
Or the sane part of the GOP says enough and nominates a democrat.
Are any Conservative MPs likely to defect to another party?
My view is this is relatively unlikely.
A lot of free thinking moderates were purged or simply retired in 2019.
Anyone tempted to follow Christian Wakeford has possibly missed their chance as Labour/Lib Dems have candidates in most targets (Wakeford went before a Labour candidate was selected in his seat, and indeed now is the Labour candidate).
Andrew Bridgen has had some kind of breakdown, and joined the party for middle aged men with significant personal demons, so I don't see anyone following him.
I think at this stage, if you're really p1ssed off as a Tory MP, you just call it a day at the election.
More likely than defection is a Faragiste entryism and subsequent civil war - potentially splitting the party in half.
I’m not sure it would lead to civil war anymore. The Tory centre is much weaker vs the hard right than the Labour centre were vs the Corbynites. The latter were able to achieve a counterrevolution pretty quickly. I can’t see any way back for the centre-right in the Tory party, it seems to have achieved GOP escape velocity.
'A counterrevolution pretty quickly?' Starmer only got elected after FOUR consecutive Labour general election defeats and a Labour party moving progressively left from Blair to Brown to Ed Miliband to Corbyn who was not only elected Labour leader in 2015 but won re election as leader in 2016 despite most Labour MPs opposing him (which wouldn't be possible in the Tory party as Truss and IDS discovered) and despite leading Labour to defeat in 2017 stayed on as leader until leadlng them to landslide defeat in 2019
There was only a far left takeover when Corbyn took the leadership. If we were running the clock the way you suggest then the Tories have already gone from Cameron to May to Johnson to the weird hallucination last autumn to Rishi. So they’ve arguably already been in the equivalent of the Corbyn years since 2019.
NYT - Speaker Kevin McCarthy has lost the vote to kill Representatives Matt Gaetz’s bid to oust him, 208 to 218. That tees an up-or-down vote to remove McCarthy.
He doesn’t deserve support. His futile attempts to ameliorate these nutters condemns him.
I don't agree.
He tried to ameliorate the nutters, but he didn't let America go over the cliff and ultimately sided with the Democrats to get a bill through before time ran out even though he couldn't carry Gaetz and other loons.
A bill that had financial support for Ukraine struck out. An utter disgrace.
New funding, the US has already given by far the most amount of aid to Ukraine of any nation and Gaetz is far more hostile to Zelensky than McCarthy
That’s interesting spin by them. HS2 will go to Manchester, but on the existing WCML and not at high speed. But it’ll still be HS2, honest.
To bw fair, Crossrail (the Elizabeth Line) runs on pre-exiting track from Shenfield to Stratford and then diverts on to the "new bit" to Paddington and rejoins the pre-existing line west of Paddington.
It's a common tactic (Croydon Tramlink did the same in places). The suggestions for the north-south cross-London link (HS3?) use a lot of existing track with the main construction new tunnels in the capital.
That's true, but both Crossrail and Tramlink have (near) exclusive use of those lines. There's a few bits of freight on the GWML when you get some way out of Paddington, and the occasional GWR semi-fasts cross over from the mains to the reliefs at Slough, but Crossrail absolutely dominates the reliefs.
That isn't going to be the case for Birmingham-Manchester, which is already congested. The HS2 express, after travelling on an alignment engineered for 400km/h between London and Birmingham, will have to follow the 60mph Northern stopper along the suburban lines into Manchester. Absolutely ludicrous.
Interesting - we travelled back from Southampton to Waterloo which is about 70 miles by rail and with stops at Southampton Airport, Winchester and Woking we did the trip in 1 hour 20 minutes. South Western build in so much redundancy (to prevent being fined) it's clear the journey "could" be much quicker - perhaps an hour. I assume it's the infrastructure not the trains which are the problem. We crossed on to a faster line after Micheldever and I'm just wondering whether improving what we have might be better and cheaper than building new lines.
That’s interesting spin by them. HS2 will go to Manchester, but on the existing WCML and not at high speed. But it’ll still be HS2, honest.
To bw fair, Crossrail (the Elizabeth Line) runs on pre-exiting track from Shenfield to Stratford and then diverts on to the "new bit" to Paddington and rejoins the pre-existing line west of Paddington.
It's a common tactic (Croydon Tramlink did the same in places). The suggestions for the north-south cross-London link (HS3?) use a lot of existing track with the main construction new tunnels in the capital.
That's true, but both Crossrail and Tramlink have (near) exclusive use of those lines. There's a few bits of freight on the GWML when you get some way out of Paddington, and the occasional GWR semi-fasts cross over from the mains to the reliefs at Slough, but Crossrail absolutely dominates the reliefs.
That isn't going to be the case for Birmingham-Manchester, which is already congested. The HS2 express, after travelling on an alignment engineered for 400km/h between London and Birmingham, will have to follow the 60mph Northern stopper along the suburban lines into Manchester. Absolutely ludicrous.
Interesting - we travelled back from Southampton to Waterloo which is about 70 miles by rail and with stops at Southampton Airport, Winchester and Woking we did the trip in 1 hour 20 minutes. South Western build in so much redundancy (to prevent being fined) it's clear the journey "could" be much quicker - perhaps an hour. I assume it's the infrastructure not the trains which are the problem. We crossed on to a faster line after Micheldever and I'm just wondering whether improving what we have might be better and cheaper than building new lines.
The issue is capacity. It doesn’t matter how fast a track can potentially be, if it has to be shared with commuter stopper trains then it can’t run that fast. That’s why your journey took longer than it seemed it should.
It’s an over-engineered version of a standard Dutch roundabout. They do work really well. But this one (and the same design in Manchester) do look a bit like someone gave a Dutch blueprint to a bunch of HS2 engineers and said “here, build one of these”.
LOL! 😂
It probably can be done better, considering its an early adoption in the UK of what the Dutch have been doing for years no doubt it will evolve over time and future ones might be better.
But functionally? Its a good idea and works well.
The Dutch have nailed this for years. Build more roads, design well for active travel, everyone wins.
Its great to see parts of the UK adopting the Dutch approach. Hopefully more do over time. Evolving the aesthetics to look better is a secondary priority over functionality.
Yes, let’s all prioritise “functionality”. Eventually that way the whole of Britain can become a motorway and no one need ever get stuck in traffic because NO ONE WILL EVER WANT TO LIVE IN UGLY DEPRESSING BRITAIN
This is, by the way, exactly what happened to thousands of American downtowns. They prioritised the functionality of driving and parking. By destroying millions of lovely old buildings to make way for car lots and wide roads
Now no one wants to drive to the downtowns because they are hideous dystopias full of homeless people and empty car lots. = zero traffic. Problem solved
That's funny because towns like Warrington and cities like Preston that are facilitating both driving and active travel, along with getting new builds, are rapidly growing in population not shrinking.
Oh and home ownership rates are far higher than in miserably depressing London where most people have to work to pay rent with no hope of a home of their own.
And the roads are free flowing. As are the cycle paths. With plenty of trees also along the routes too, even if not shown at the junctions.
You have a very different idea of depressing to me. I find 21 people being forced into one two bedroom flat as they have nowhere else to live far more depressing: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-66941965
I'm sorry but no one wants to live in Warrington. That's why it's affordable, and why BTL landlords haven't come sniffing.
Most of the UK lives in towns like Warrington. Only there's hundreds of Warringtons dotted around the country each with a different name.
Its only a tiny minority that lives in cities (and even in cities most still drive).
Its an even smaller minority that lives in London, the only city where most have been forced off the road due to chronic overcrowding.
38% of the UK population lives in a city (defined as a populous urban area with a population over 500k people). Not a majority, but not tiny either. (Source: http://www.demographia.com/db-worldua.pdf )
We should neither ignore cities (which are, after all, the economic engines of the UK) nor ignore the majority of people who live in towns & the wider countryside.
That data is only that high by merging neighbouring towns into built up urban areas. Here is the real data:
Cities excluding London make up 6.9 million people in England and Wales.
The majority of England and Wales live in towns.
You can’t exclude the population of London from “people who live in cities in England & Wales”. Come on.
Fair but even including London you only get to 17m people (correction exc London is 8m, I copied off wrong column).
Whereas 32.9 million live in towns.
Towns dramatically exceed cities in England, nearly 2:1, not that you'd know it from our city based correspondents and media.
For planning purposes, those areas that are contiguously built up with no rural / agricultural land around a city are really part of the city though. Hence my point that, according to a measure of those areas 38% of the UK population live in them.
You might (reasonably) argue that these hinterlands have differing needs to the city cores & I wouldn’t argue with that, but I would argue that they are not going to be the same as rural towns, so lumping them in with the rural town population & calling them “non city” residents seems wrong to me.
I never said rural towns though, rural was not part of the equation.
Most towns absolutely are urban/suburban and are neither rural nor city.
In the North West Liverpool/Manchester conurbation for instance I believe far more people live in towns like Wigan, Widnes, Warrington, Runcorn, Leigh, Stockport, Northwich, Altrincham etc, etc, etc than either Liverpool or Manchester.
Why do you differentiate say Altrincham from Manchester ?
It's part of the same urban lump, there is no rural gap.
Metrolink takes you from Alty to St Peters Sq in 25mins, every 6mins.
Historically yes Alty was very much a separate town and no doubt many still 'feel' it is in Cheshire and not an urban area.
Yet the government measures of Primary Urban Area and Travel to Work Areas both include Alty in the Manchester urban area as they are economically and socially one urban area.
Because Altrincham simply isn't in the city of Manchester.
Its very much a town. Yes the Metrolink goes there, but Metrolink does not a city make, people going from Altrincham into Manchester are commuting into the city, not from one.
Altrincham very much has a town feeling and town statistics same as the other towns I named. 76% of Altrincham own their own home, versus barely over 50% in Manchester. Altrincham is predominantly houses not flats. Etc, etc
Most of the people who live in Manchester's urban area live in a town, not the City. That's kind of the point!
Eh ???
The vast majority of people who live in the local authority called Manchester live in houses, not flats, they are just poorer so fewer own them.
The ONS have gone to the effort of telling you 2.5m people live in the Greater Manchester urban area, that urban area includes Alty, Stockport, Sale etc. But not Wigan.
You can walk from Alty (Trafford) to Middleton (Rochdale) without leaving urban areas, that is what makes it all feel like a city.
You seem a little to focused on local authorities, come to Manchester, you will see that they are meaningless.
Yes they have and they've also gone to the effect of breaking that urban area into towns and cities. The ONS agrees with me, Altrincham is a town, in Manchester's urban area. It is not part of the City of Manchester.
you agree the English definition of a city is based on a local authority which is utterly meaningless when talking about urban planning I assume ?
Yes multiple cities in England, such as Doncaster or Preston, really ought to be classed as large towns.
I don't know of any towns in England that should be classed as cities.
Colchester’s designation as a city is long overdue, given it’s history!
It needs moving towards London. It’s in Essex, for ***** sake, yet whenever you go there you think, surely it can’t be this far?
@HYUFD has predicted the conservative party will turn right post GE24 defeat and we are seeing it on full view in Manchester
This is the bit I don't get. Parties, after long periods in power, go into opposition and seem hippo-like to enjoy a good wallow in the comfy futility thereof.
There comes a point when a party collectively "comes to its senses" and realises the point isn't self-indulgence but trying to provide good governance to improve the lot of the country and every citizen.
It wouldn't surprise me if a future Conservative leader threw Braverman out of the party for being too extreme.
If after multiple defeats but remember Thatcher was thought unelectable and too rightwing in 1975 but won in 1979 given the state of the economy and even Foot also had poll leads in 1980 and 1981 as unemployment rose.
Corbyn too, though well beaten in 2019, got much closer than expected in 2017 and Michael Howard, a hard rightwinger, won most votes in England in 2005 despite overall UK defeat
Yes - most floating voters don't think of themselves as left/right - often they want someone with impressive confidence and a clear plan, not necessarily a moderate one. I can imagine Braverman winning.
Are any Conservative MPs likely to defect to another party?
My view is this is relatively unlikely.
A lot of free thinking moderates were purged or simply retired in 2019.
Anyone tempted to follow Christian Wakeford has possibly missed their chance as Labour/Lib Dems have candidates in most targets (Wakeford went before a Labour candidate was selected in his seat, and indeed now is the Labour candidate).
Andrew Bridgen has had some kind of breakdown, and joined the party for middle aged men with significant personal demons, so I don't see anyone following him.
I think at this stage, if you're really p1ssed off as a Tory MP, you just call it a day at the election.
More likely than defection is a Faragiste entryism and subsequent civil war - potentially splitting the party in half.
I’m not sure it would lead to civil war anymore. The Tory centre is much weaker vs the hard right than the Labour centre were vs the Corbynites. The latter were able to achieve a counterrevolution pretty quickly. I can’t see any way back for the centre-right in the Tory party, it seems to have achieved GOP escape velocity.
'A counterrevolution pretty quickly?' Starmer only got elected after FOUR consecutive Labour general election defeats and a Labour party moving progressively left from Blair to Brown to Ed Miliband to Corbyn who was not only elected Labour leader in 2015 but won re election as leader in 2016 despite most Labour MPs opposing him (which wouldn't be possible in the Tory party as Truss and IDS discovered) and despite leading Labour to defeat in 2017 stayed on as leader until leadlng them to landslide defeat in 2019
There was only a far left takeover when Corbyn took the leadership. If we were running the clock the way you suggest then the Tories have already gone from Cameron to May to Johnson to the weird hallucination last autumn to Rishi. So they’ve arguably already been in the equivalent of the Corbyn years since 2019.
Brown was left of Blair and Ed Miliband shifted Labour well to the left when he beat his more centrist brother too.
If anything Rishi is the Tory equivalent of David Miliband, they haven't even got to their Ed Miliband yet let alone a Corbyn as leader
So the PM, despite telling me today he wasn’t going to be forced into making premature decisions’ about HS2, had made the decision (which I put directly to him in our i/v)
@HYUFD has predicted the conservative party will turn right post GE24 defeat and we are seeing it on full view in Manchester
This is the bit I don't get. Parties, after long periods in power, go into opposition and seem hippo-like to enjoy a good wallow in the comfy futility thereof.
There comes a point when a party collectively "comes to its senses" and realises the point isn't self-indulgence but trying to provide good governance to improve the lot of the country and every citizen.
It wouldn't surprise me if a future Conservative leader threw Braverman out of the party for being too extreme.
If after multiple defeats but remember Thatcher was thought unelectable and too rightwing in 1975 but won in 1979 given the state of the economy and even Foot also had poll leads in 1980 and 1981 as unemployment rose.
Corbyn too, though well beaten in 2019, got much closer than expected in 2017 and Michael Howard, a hard rightwinger, won most votes in England in 2005 despite overall UK defeat
Yes - most floating voters don't think of themselves as left/right - often they want someone with impressive confidence and a clear plan, not necessarily a moderate one. I can imagine Braverman winning.
If the economy is poor certainly even Braverman or Badenoch or Mogg might have a chance
I have now had a chance to watch the Suella Braverman speech.
I do not take pleasure in saying this because it was full of the usual divisive rhetoric she has taken to delivering, but it was very, very well delivered. That is not a speech she could have delivered that well 18 months ago. She has clearly taken coaching, and learned from it.
I suspect, rather worryingly, we are looking at the next Tory leader. The narrative is there - ‘I wanted to sort all this out, Rishi stopped me. I said all this at the time I was Home Secretary, the Blob was too squeamish.’ If you’d asked me 6 months ago who I thought would win in a contest between Braverman, Mordaunt and Badenoch I’d have suggested the latter. Now I’m pretty convinced Braverman will be able to sell the culture war stuff to the membership even better than Badenoch can. Buckle in.
I will not vote for a Braverman led Conservative Party. It’s not so much a step too far as a different planet.
"...You know, I've spent the last ten years detoxifying this party. It's been a bit like renovating an old, old house. Oh, you can take out a sexist beam here, a callous window there, replace the odd homophobic roof-tile, but after a while you begin to realize that this renovation is doomed. Because the foundation is built on what I can only describe as a solid bed of [We know the rest of the quote - Ed]"
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 20m Large numbers of people leaving Tory conference tonight because there are no trains tomorrow. Thereby missing the PM’s speech announcing the axing of the Manchester rail upgrade. Historians will write entire chapters on the events of the past two weeks…
What’s Rishi going to say that will get the audience to its feet?
Except perhaps, “the last train to London leaves in fifteen minutes….”
Are any Conservative MPs likely to defect to another party?
My view is this is relatively unlikely.
A lot of free thinking moderates were purged or simply retired in 2019.
Anyone tempted to follow Christian Wakeford has possibly missed their chance as Labour/Lib Dems have candidates in most targets (Wakeford went before a Labour candidate was selected in his seat, and indeed now is the Labour candidate).
Andrew Bridgen has had some kind of breakdown, and joined the party for middle aged men with significant personal demons, so I don't see anyone following him.
I think at this stage, if you're really p1ssed off as a Tory MP, you just call it a day at the election.
More likely than defection is a Faragiste entryism and subsequent civil war - potentially splitting the party in half.
I’m not sure it would lead to civil war anymore. The Tory centre is much weaker vs the hard right than the Labour centre were vs the Corbynites. The latter were able to achieve a counterrevolution pretty quickly. I can’t see any way back for the centre-right in the Tory party, it seems to have achieved GOP escape velocity.
'A counterrevolution pretty quickly?' Starmer only got elected after FOUR consecutive Labour general election defeats and a Labour party moving progressively left from Blair to Brown to Ed Miliband to Corbyn who was not only elected Labour leader in 2015 but won re election as leader in 2016 despite most Labour MPs opposing him (which wouldn't be possible in the Tory party as Truss and IDS discovered) and despite leading Labour to defeat in 2017 stayed on as leader until leadlng them to landslide defeat in 2019
There was only a far left takeover when Corbyn took the leadership. If we were running the clock the way you suggest then the Tories have already gone from Cameron to May to Johnson to the weird hallucination last autumn to Rishi. So they’ve arguably already been in the equivalent of the Corbyn years since 2019.
Brown was left of Blair and Ed Miliband shifted Labour well to the left when he beat his more centrist brother too.
If anything Rishi is the Tory equivalent of David Miliband, they haven't even got to their Ed Miliband yet let alone a Corbyn as leader
LOL as if Rishi's only problem is how to hold a banana. Rishi is much worse than either Miliband.
I am 100% serious in suggesting that @Keir_Starmer announce that HS2 will be built to Manchester and that Labour will rename it the King Charles Railway
Are any Conservative MPs likely to defect to another party?
My view is this is relatively unlikely.
A lot of free thinking moderates were purged or simply retired in 2019.
Anyone tempted to follow Christian Wakeford has possibly missed their chance as Labour/Lib Dems have candidates in most targets (Wakeford went before a Labour candidate was selected in his seat, and indeed now is the Labour candidate).
Andrew Bridgen has had some kind of breakdown, and joined the party for middle aged men with significant personal demons, so I don't see anyone following him.
I think at this stage, if you're really p1ssed off as a Tory MP, you just call it a day at the election.
More likely than defection is a Faragiste entryism and subsequent civil war - potentially splitting the party in half.
I’m not sure it would lead to civil war anymore. The Tory centre is much weaker vs the hard right than the Labour centre were vs the Corbynites. The latter were able to achieve a counterrevolution pretty quickly. I can’t see any way back for the centre-right in the Tory party, it seems to have achieved GOP escape velocity.
'A counterrevolution pretty quickly?' Starmer only got elected after FOUR consecutive Labour general election defeats and a Labour party moving progressively left from Blair to Brown to Ed Miliband to Corbyn who was not only elected Labour leader in 2015 but won re election as leader in 2016 despite most Labour MPs opposing him (which wouldn't be possible in the Tory party as Truss and IDS discovered) and despite leading Labour to defeat in 2017 stayed on as leader until leadlng them to landslide defeat in 2019
There was only a far left takeover when Corbyn took the leadership. If we were running the clock the way you suggest then the Tories have already gone from Cameron to May to Johnson to the weird hallucination last autumn to Rishi. So they’ve arguably already been in the equivalent of the Corbyn years since 2019.
Brown was left of Blair and Ed Miliband shifted Labour well to the left when he beat his more centrist brother too.
If anything Rishi is the Tory equivalent of David Miliband, they haven't even got to their Ed Miliband yet let alone a Corbyn as leader
The logic behind what you’ve just written is frightening.
@HYUFD has predicted the conservative party will turn right post GE24 defeat and we are seeing it on full view in Manchester
This is the bit I don't get. Parties, after long periods in power, go into opposition and seem hippo-like to enjoy a good wallow in the comfy futility thereof.
There comes a point when a party collectively "comes to its senses" and realises the point isn't self-indulgence but trying to provide good governance to improve the lot of the country and every citizen.
It wouldn't surprise me if a future Conservative leader threw Braverman out of the party for being too extreme.
If after multiple defeats but remember Thatcher was thought unelectable and too rightwing in 1975 but won in 1979 given the state of the economy and even Foot also had poll leads in 1980 and 1981 as unemployment rose.
Corbyn too, though well beaten in 2019, got much closer than expected in 2017 and Michael Howard, a hard rightwinger, won most votes in England in 2005 despite overall UK defeat
Yes - most floating voters don't think of themselves as left/right - often they want someone with impressive confidence and a clear plan, not necessarily a moderate one. I can imagine Braverman winning.
Yes and no. There are enough voters repelled by the British instinctive suspicion of a fanatic to deprive more extreme politicians of critical support, and despite HY’s argument, he has essentially presented a list of losers. Thatcher being the exception, and she was largely a blank canvas until well into her first term.
Speaker Kevin McCarthy has lost the vote to kill Representative Matt Gaetz’s bid to oust him, 208 to 218. That tees an up-or-down vote to remove McCarthy.
NY Times blog
Why would the Democrats side with Gaetz?
Embarrass McCarthy by voting en-bloc with him.
It’s a bit frustrating that the Dems are playing this for shits and giggles. At some point right thinking Americans need to stand up and say “Enough!”
I am 100% serious in suggesting that @Keir_Starmer announce that HS2 will be built to Manchester and that Labour will rename it the King Charles Railway
@HYUFD has predicted the conservative party will turn right post GE24 defeat and we are seeing it on full view in Manchester
This is the bit I don't get. Parties, after long periods in power, go into opposition and seem hippo-like to enjoy a good wallow in the comfy futility thereof.
There comes a point when a party collectively "comes to its senses" and realises the point isn't self-indulgence but trying to provide good governance to improve the lot of the country and every citizen.
It wouldn't surprise me if a future Conservative leader threw Braverman out of the party for being too extreme.
If after multiple defeats but remember Thatcher was thought unelectable and too rightwing in 1975 but won in 1979 given the state of the economy and even Foot also had poll leads in 1980 and 1981 as unemployment rose.
Corbyn too, though well beaten in 2019, got much closer than expected in 2017 and Michael Howard, a hard rightwinger, won most votes in England in 2005 despite overall UK defeat
Yes - most floating voters don't think of themselves as left/right - often they want someone with impressive confidence and a clear plan, not necessarily a moderate one. I can imagine Braverman winning.
If the economy is poor certainly even Braverman or Badenoch or Mogg might have a chance
Today was like a Nuremberg Rally. Braverman is completely bonkers. High on her own supply, and goodness knows what she does next. Very concerning.
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 20m Large numbers of people leaving Tory conference tonight because there are no trains tomorrow. Thereby missing the PM’s speech announcing the axing of the Manchester rail upgrade. Historians will write entire chapters on the events of the past two weeks…
What’s Rishi going to say that will get the audience to its feet?
Except perhaps, “the last train to London leaves in fifteen minutes….”
Are any Conservative MPs likely to defect to another party?
My view is this is relatively unlikely.
A lot of free thinking moderates were purged or simply retired in 2019.
Anyone tempted to follow Christian Wakeford has possibly missed their chance as Labour/Lib Dems have candidates in most targets (Wakeford went before a Labour candidate was selected in his seat, and indeed now is the Labour candidate).
Andrew Bridgen has had some kind of breakdown, and joined the party for middle aged men with significant personal demons, so I don't see anyone following him.
I think at this stage, if you're really p1ssed off as a Tory MP, you just call it a day at the election.
More likely than defection is a Faragiste entryism and subsequent civil war - potentially splitting the party in half.
I’m not sure it would lead to civil war anymore. The Tory centre is much weaker vs the hard right than the Labour centre were vs the Corbynites. The latter were able to achieve a counterrevolution pretty quickly. I can’t see any way back for the centre-right in the Tory party, it seems to have achieved GOP escape velocity.
'A counterrevolution pretty quickly?' Starmer only got elected after FOUR consecutive Labour general election defeats and a Labour party moving progressively left from Blair to Brown to Ed Miliband to Corbyn who was not only elected Labour leader in 2015 but won re election as leader in 2016 despite most Labour MPs opposing him (which wouldn't be possible in the Tory party as Truss and IDS discovered) and despite leading Labour to defeat in 2017 stayed on as leader until leadlng them to landslide defeat in 2019
There was only a far left takeover when Corbyn took the leadership. If we were running the clock the way you suggest then the Tories have already gone from Cameron to May to Johnson to the weird hallucination last autumn to Rishi. So they’ve arguably already been in the equivalent of the Corbyn years since 2019.
Brown was left of Blair and Ed Miliband shifted Labour well to the left when he beat his more centrist brother too.
If anything Rishi is the Tory equivalent of David Miliband, they haven't even got to their Ed Miliband yet let alone a Corbyn as leader
The logic behind what you’ve just written is frightening.
Barclay based on his speech today maybe Ed Miliband, then Mogg as leader as Tory Corbyn?
I am 100% serious in suggesting that @Keir_Starmer announce that HS2 will be built to Manchester and that Labour will rename it the King Charles Railway
NYT - Speaker Kevin McCarthy has lost the vote to kill Representatives Matt Gaetz’s bid to oust him, 208 to 218. That tees an up-or-down vote to remove McCarthy.
He doesn’t deserve support. His futile attempts to ameliorate these nutters condemns him.
I don't agree.
He tried to ameliorate the nutters, but he didn't let America go over the cliff and ultimately sided with the Democrats to get a bill through before time ran out even though he couldn't carry Gaetz and other loons.
A bill that had financial support for Ukraine struck out. An utter disgrace.
Yes it is a disgrace, but at least they didn't shut down, and didn't he say he'd bring a Ukraine bill forward separately?
Perhaps the Democrats should say they'll back McCarthy but only if he brings forwards a 15 month bill not a 45 days one, and a Ukraine bill.
McCarthy says he won't negotiate with the Dems for their votes.
You give them too much credit. Most of Birmingham-Manchester is 110mph.
Bloody hell Beth. We don't care about the units. It's the track we need. Because it's not about speed, it's about capacity. So this isn't HS2 going to Manchester. Mind you, this is one of the journos who still hadn't grasped 18 months into the pandemic that death figures went up on a Tuesday.
I am 100% serious in suggesting that @Keir_Starmer announce that HS2 will be built to Manchester and that Labour will rename it the King Charles Railway
You give them too much credit. Most of Birmingham-Manchester is 110mph.
Bloody hell Beth. We don't care about the units. It's the track we need. Because it's not about speed, it's about capacity. So this isn't HS2 going to Manchester. Mind you, this is one of the journos who still hadn't grasped 18 months into the pandemic that death figures went up on a Tuesday.
Our politicians are useless, but f##k me the journalists aren't much better....and they never learn / do any homework. Dunning Kruger effect in action.
That’s interesting spin by them. HS2 will go to Manchester, but on the existing WCML and not at high speed. But it’ll still be HS2, honest.
To bw fair, Crossrail (the Elizabeth Line) runs on pre-exiting track from Shenfield to Stratford and then diverts on to the "new bit" to Paddington and rejoins the pre-existing line west of Paddington.
It's a common tactic (Croydon Tramlink did the same in places). The suggestions for the north-south cross-London link (HS3?) use a lot of existing track with the main construction new tunnels in the capital.
That's true, but both Crossrail and Tramlink have (near) exclusive use of those lines. There's a few bits of freight on the GWML when you get some way out of Paddington, and the occasional GWR semi-fasts cross over from the mains to the reliefs at Slough, but Crossrail absolutely dominates the reliefs.
That isn't going to be the case for Birmingham-Manchester, which is already congested. The HS2 express, after travelling on an alignment engineered for 400km/h between London and Birmingham, will have to follow the 60mph Northern stopper along the suburban lines into Manchester. Absolutely ludicrous.
Interesting - we travelled back from Southampton to Waterloo which is about 70 miles by rail and with stops at Southampton Airport, Winchester and Woking we did the trip in 1 hour 20 minutes. South Western build in so much redundancy (to prevent being fined) it's clear the journey "could" be much quicker - perhaps an hour. I assume it's the infrastructure not the trains which are the problem. We crossed on to a faster line after Micheldever and I'm just wondering whether improving what we have might be better and cheaper than building new lines.
I used to do that route. If you travel from Bournemouth to Waterloo in the early morn there used to be all the judges and posh whatnot who lived in Sandbanks and worked in London. I don't know what it (the route) is like now, but it used to be plagued with delays due to suic***s, broken down trains and signalling failures. The trains were nice enough, Southern/SouthWestTrains/CrossCountry are goodish franchises, Waterloo's got a nice book shop and (had?) a nice sushi place, so no ginormous complaints tbh, but the trains were packed and unreliable. I hope it's got better now.
@HYUFD has predicted the conservative party will turn right post GE24 defeat and we are seeing it on full view in Manchester
This is the bit I don't get. Parties, after long periods in power, go into opposition and seem hippo-like to enjoy a good wallow in the comfy futility thereof.
There comes a point when a party collectively "comes to its senses" and realises the point isn't self-indulgence but trying to provide good governance to improve the lot of the country and every citizen.
It wouldn't surprise me if a future Conservative leader threw Braverman out of the party for being too extreme.
If after multiple defeats but remember Thatcher was thought unelectable and too rightwing in 1975 but won in 1979 given the state of the economy and even Foot also had poll leads in 1980 and 1981 as unemployment rose.
Corbyn too, though well beaten in 2019, got much closer than expected in 2017 and Michael Howard, a hard rightwinger, won most votes in England in 2005 despite overall UK defeat
Yes - most floating voters don't think of themselves as left/right - often they want someone with impressive confidence and a clear plan, not necessarily a moderate one. I can imagine Braverman winning.
Yes and no. There are enough voters repelled by the British instinctive suspicion of a fanatic to deprive more extreme politicians of critical support, and despite HY’s argument, he has essentially presented a list of losers. Thatcher being the exception, and she was largely a blank canvas until well into her first term.
Callaghan would probably have won if he had gone for an autumn 1978 General Election, and Maggie would be a footnote in history.
I am 100% serious in suggesting that @Keir_Starmer announce that HS2 will be built to Manchester and that Labour will rename it the King Charles Railway
One of the earliest and most lifelike examples of a human sculpture – depicting a man holding his phallus with both hands – has been uncovered by archaeologists in Turkey.
The unusual 7.5ft (2.3m)-tall statue was discovered at a prehistoric site known as Karahan Tepe
To be fair to @RishiSunak , a lot of people were annoyed when he tried to scrap the 20mph speed limit. He’s listened, he’s heard, and he’s introduced it on the rail network instead.
NYT - Speaker Kevin McCarthy has lost the vote to kill Representatives Matt Gaetz’s bid to oust him, 208 to 218. That tees an up-or-down vote to remove McCarthy.
He doesn’t deserve support. His futile attempts to ameliorate these nutters condemns him.
I don't agree.
He tried to ameliorate the nutters, but he didn't let America go over the cliff and ultimately sided with the Democrats to get a bill through before time ran out even though he couldn't carry Gaetz and other loons.
A bill that had financial support for Ukraine struck out. An utter disgrace.
Yes it is a disgrace, but at least they didn't shut down, and didn't he say he'd bring a Ukraine bill forward separately?
Perhaps the Democrats should say they'll back McCarthy but only if he brings forwards a 15 month bill not a 45 days one, and a Ukraine bill.
McCarthy says he won't negotiate with the Dems for their votes.
For a gerontocracy American politics is bloody childish.
Is this like the horseshoe theory but for maturity? Their politicians have become so old they've reverted back to being children.
One of the earliest and most lifelike examples of a human sculpture – depicting a man holding his phallus with both hands – has been uncovered by archaeologists in Turkey.
The unusual 7.5ft (2.3m)-tall statue was discovered at a prehistoric site known as Karahan Tepe
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 20m Large numbers of people leaving Tory conference tonight because there are no trains tomorrow. Thereby missing the PM’s speech announcing the axing of the Manchester rail upgrade. Historians will write entire chapters on the events of the past two weeks…
What’s Rishi going to say that will get the audience to its feet?
Except perhaps, “the last train to London leaves in fifteen minutes….”
That’s interesting spin by them. HS2 will go to Manchester, but on the existing WCML and not at high speed. But it’ll still be HS2, honest.
To bw fair, Crossrail (the Elizabeth Line) runs on pre-exiting track from Shenfield to Stratford and then diverts on to the "new bit" to Paddington and rejoins the pre-existing line west of Paddington.
It's a common tactic (Croydon Tramlink did the same in places). The suggestions for the north-south cross-London link (HS3?) use a lot of existing track with the main construction new tunnels in the capital.
That's true, but both Crossrail and Tramlink have (near) exclusive use of those lines. There's a few bits of freight on the GWML when you get some way out of Paddington, and the occasional GWR semi-fasts cross over from the mains to the reliefs at Slough, but Crossrail absolutely dominates the reliefs.
That isn't going to be the case for Birmingham-Manchester, which is already congested. The HS2 express, after travelling on an alignment engineered for 400km/h between London and Birmingham, will have to follow the 60mph Northern stopper along the suburban lines into Manchester. Absolutely ludicrous.
Interesting - we travelled back from Southampton to Waterloo which is about 70 miles by rail and with stops at Southampton Airport, Winchester and Woking we did the trip in 1 hour 20 minutes. South Western build in so much redundancy (to prevent being fined) it's clear the journey "could" be much quicker - perhaps an hour. I assume it's the infrastructure not the trains which are the problem. We crossed on to a faster line after Micheldever and I'm just wondering whether improving what we have might be better and cheaper than building new lines.
The issue is capacity. It doesn’t matter how fast a track can potentially be, if it has to be shared with commuter stopper trains then it can’t run that fast. That’s why your journey took longer than it seemed it should.
Yes, I understand that and we were stuck behind a late running Cross Country for a while. I'd be looking at where we can build faster lines for longer distance non-stopping trains which can have those lines so there's less sharing of lines and fewer delays.
Does the statement mean 'existing tracks' or could 'normal tracks' mean new, but lower specced 'low speed rail' tracks, so cheaper? If it's the latter, it doesn't sound like a terrible loss. If it's the former, it's bad for HS2 but we'd have to see what sweeties Rishi will dangle instead.
I am 100% serious in suggesting that @Keir_Starmer announce that HS2 will be built to Manchester and that Labour will rename it the King Charles Railway
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 20m Large numbers of people leaving Tory conference tonight because there are no trains tomorrow. Thereby missing the PM’s speech announcing the axing of the Manchester rail upgrade. Historians will write entire chapters on the events of the past two weeks…
What’s Rishi going to say that will get the audience to its feet?
Except perhaps, “the last train to London leaves in fifteen minutes….”
Does the statement mean 'existing tracks' or could 'normal tracks' mean new, but lower specced 'low speed rail' tracks, so cheaper? If it's the latter, it doesn't sound like a terrible loss. If it's the former, it's bad for HS2 but we'd have to see what sweeties Rishi will dangle instead.
NYT - Speaker Kevin McCarthy has lost the vote to kill Representatives Matt Gaetz’s bid to oust him, 208 to 218. That tees an up-or-down vote to remove McCarthy.
He doesn’t deserve support. His futile attempts to ameliorate these nutters condemns him.
I don't agree.
He tried to ameliorate the nutters, but he didn't let America go over the cliff and ultimately sided with the Democrats to get a bill through before time ran out even though he couldn't carry Gaetz and other loons.
A bill that had financial support for Ukraine struck out. An utter disgrace.
Yes it is a disgrace, but at least they didn't shut down, and didn't he say he'd bring a Ukraine bill forward separately?
Perhaps the Democrats should say they'll back McCarthy but only if he brings forwards a 15 month bill not a 45 days one, and a Ukraine bill.
McCarthy says he won't negotiate with the Dems for their votes.
For a gerontocracy American politics is bloody childish.
Is this like the horseshoe theory but for maturity? Their politicians have become so old they've reverted back to being children.
The House aren't *that* old. (IIUC both houses are staffed by kids, because they don't pay much and once you have a bit of experience you can make more money as a lobbyist.)
I am 100% serious in suggesting that @Keir_Starmer announce that HS2 will be built to Manchester and that Labour will rename it the King Charles Railway
Ugh. We could name it after someone who's done something better for the country. Brunel, Pankhurst, Lineker, Austen. Anything but some fucking sausage-fingered monarch.
To Manchester? Not Austen. Name it after the Manchester based author of North and South: welcome to The Mrs Gaskell Line.
That’s interesting spin by them. HS2 will go to Manchester, but on the existing WCML and not at high speed. But it’ll still be HS2, honest.
To bw fair, Crossrail (the Elizabeth Line) runs on pre-exiting track from Shenfield to Stratford and then diverts on to the "new bit" to Paddington and rejoins the pre-existing line west of Paddington.
It's a common tactic (Croydon Tramlink did the same in places). The suggestions for the north-south cross-London link (HS3?) use a lot of existing track with the main construction new tunnels in the capital.
That's true, but both Crossrail and Tramlink have (near) exclusive use of those lines. There's a few bits of freight on the GWML when you get some way out of Paddington, and the occasional GWR semi-fasts cross over from the mains to the reliefs at Slough, but Crossrail absolutely dominates the reliefs.
That isn't going to be the case for Birmingham-Manchester, which is already congested. The HS2 express, after travelling on an alignment engineered for 400km/h between London and Birmingham, will have to follow the 60mph Northern stopper along the suburban lines into Manchester. Absolutely ludicrous.
Interesting - we travelled back from Southampton to Waterloo which is about 70 miles by rail and with stops at Southampton Airport, Winchester and Woking we did the trip in 1 hour 20 minutes. South Western build in so much redundancy (to prevent being fined) it's clear the journey "could" be much quicker - perhaps an hour. I assume it's the infrastructure not the trains which are the problem. We crossed on to a faster line after Micheldever and I'm just wondering whether improving what we have might be better and cheaper than building new lines.
The issue is capacity. It doesn’t matter how fast a track can potentially be, if it has to be shared with commuter stopper trains then it can’t run that fast. That’s why your journey took longer than it seemed it should.
Yes, I understand that and we were stuck behind a late running Cross Country for a while. I'd be looking at where we can build faster lines for longer distance non-stopping trains which can have those lines so there's less sharing of lines and fewer delays.
There were plans for this; a fifth track between Clapham and Surbiton to separate out fast/medium/slow better. Proposed in 2011, but hasn't happened- presumably for the same dismal reason that so little else has happened.
I am 100% serious in suggesting that @Keir_Starmer announce that HS2 will be built to Manchester and that Labour will rename it the King Charles Railway
Paid for by a tax on hedge fund 'carry over' or whatever it is called.
Carried interest (or carry for short). Mainly relevant to private equity. Your fund buys companies, holds them for a few years, then flips them. The question is whether you are a long term investor (in which case when you sell your gains are taxed at the lower CGT rate), or a trader in shares (in which case you’re subject to income tax at a higher rate). Carried interest is generally treated as capital gains.
If Labour change this it’ll either be through changing the interpretation and guidance HMRC need to follow (difficult given years of precedent), introducing some kind of bright line test eg it’s only capital if you hold for 5 years or more (issue would be collateral damage to other industries and individuals), or doing something specific to the funds industry (most likely, but might be open to being planned around).
NYT - Speaker Kevin McCarthy has lost the vote to kill Representatives Matt Gaetz’s bid to oust him, 208 to 218. That tees an up-or-down vote to remove McCarthy.
He doesn’t deserve support. His futile attempts to ameliorate these nutters condemns him.
I don't agree.
He tried to ameliorate the nutters, but he didn't let America go over the cliff and ultimately sided with the Democrats to get a bill through before time ran out even though he couldn't carry Gaetz and other loons.
A bill that had financial support for Ukraine struck out. An utter disgrace.
Yes it is a disgrace, but at least they didn't shut down, and didn't he say he'd bring a Ukraine bill forward separately?
Perhaps the Democrats should say they'll back McCarthy but only if he brings forwards a 15 month bill not a 45 days one, and a Ukraine bill.
McCarthy says he won't negotiate with the Dems for their votes.
For a gerontocracy American politics is bloody childish.
Is this like the horseshoe theory but for maturity? Their politicians have become so old they've reverted back to being children.
The House aren't *that* old. (IIUC both houses are staffed by kids, because they don't pay much and once you have a bit of experience you can make more money as a lobbyist.)
Well when you look at the likes of Pelosi and McCarthy then kids isn't the first thing that comes to mind.
Pelosi's successor hasn't seemed to make much of a name for himself yet.
That’s interesting spin by them. HS2 will go to Manchester, but on the existing WCML and not at high speed. But it’ll still be HS2, honest.
To bw fair, Crossrail (the Elizabeth Line) runs on pre-exiting track from Shenfield to Stratford and then diverts on to the "new bit" to Paddington and rejoins the pre-existing line west of Paddington.
It's a common tactic (Croydon Tramlink did the same in places). The suggestions for the north-south cross-London link (HS3?) use a lot of existing track with the main construction new tunnels in the capital.
The question then becomes whether you can offer something better than what currently exists - it doesn't have to be quicker butn it has to be reliable and a decent experience for the passenger.
Immediate question comes to mind - are the two systems compatible signalling wise? IANAE so don't have a clue, but high speed trains do tend to have modern signalling kit, communications, automatic train protection, etc. which the existing line may well not.
Ditto catenaries and power supplies.
And what happens about the existing Manc-London trains? What happens to the stations en route?
This is too much like the original pissing about with HS1 - it went ultra fast in Franve and then trundled slowly through Kent to Waterloo, as President Mitterrand said to admire the English scenery.
Does the statement mean 'existing tracks' or could 'normal tracks' mean new, but lower specced 'low speed rail' tracks, so cheaper? If it's the latter, it doesn't sound like a terrible loss. If it's the former, it's bad for HS2 but we'd have to see what sweeties Rishi will dangle instead.
it's the former
So a bit like ordering a Bugatti Veyron with Hillman Imp wheels and tyres.
I am 100% serious in suggesting that @Keir_Starmer announce that HS2 will be built to Manchester and that Labour will rename it the King Charles Railway
One of the earliest and most lifelike examples of a human sculpture – depicting a man holding his phallus with both hands – has been uncovered by archaeologists in Turkey.
The unusual 7.5ft (2.3m)-tall statue was discovered at a prehistoric site known as Karahan Tepe
The DM has a remarkably astute observation about the meaning of these things, especially startling because no-one would ever have thought it before:
"Phalluses typically symbolises fertility or potency."
The grammar is original DM, not mine. It does raise an interesting issue about the plural of phallus which I am sure PBers can sort.
Phalluses is fine. You can use Latin plurals if you like, but they tend to make people feel a bit disconcerted and it takes away from what you're trying to communicate by causing the reader to focus on the grammar. Linguists call this phenomenon the "uncanny phalli".
You do need to check if it is second or fourth declension. It's second declension, so the plural is phalli, not phallus.
I sense we are in for a complex philosophical debate over whether, if a high speed rail line from point A stops being high speed past point B, it can still be claimed to be a high speed rail line to point C.
I am 100% serious in suggesting that @Keir_Starmer announce that HS2 will be built to Manchester and that Labour will rename it the King Charles Railway
Ugh. We could name it after someone who's done something better for the country. Brunel, Pankhurst, Lineker, Austen. Anything but some fucking sausage-fingered monarch.
I think 'The Leon Line' has a certain ring about it? If not necklace.
You give them too much credit. Most of Birmingham-Manchester is 110mph.
Not quite correct. HS stock has such rapid acceleration they could still do 125mph on the WCML. Indeed, the current Hitachi 801s can, and I think the 745s can as well, although they're not currently allowed to.
The much bigger problem being there would need to be several changes:
1) There's no link at Birmingham. The link is at Handsacre near Lichfield. So there would need to be major and rather expensive changes to the layout of Curzon Street;
2) The section to Crewe has already been authorised and construction begun so primary legislation would be needed to halt it - the debate might be embarrassing for the government;
3) Without HS2 even the farcical IRP can't be honoured, revealing Grant Shapps to be an even bigger and more incompetent liar than we already all thought he was. That might lead to him being kicked out of Parliament (we can but hope. Makes Johnson look honest).
I am 100% serious in suggesting that @Keir_Starmer announce that HS2 will be built to Manchester and that Labour will rename it the King Charles Railway
I am 100% serious in suggesting that @Keir_Starmer announce that HS2 will be built to Manchester and that Labour will rename it the King Charles Railway
Ugh. We could name it after someone who's done something better for the country. Brunel, Pankhurst, Lineker, Austen. Anything but some fucking sausage-fingered monarch.
I sense we are in for a complex philosophical debate over whether, if a high speed rail line from point A stops being high speed past point B, it can still be claimed to be a high speed rail line to point C.
My instinct is no…
My dim memory recalls that the definition of a 'high speed' railway for upgraded lines is 124 MPH; for new lines 155 MPH. Might be wrong, though.
in Our Nation's Capital approx 20 minutes until debate ends and voting begins in US House, on motion to vacate the office of Speaker thus removing Kevin McCarthy.
This roll call will be a voice vote, in alpha order, as per vote to elected KMcC in the first place.
You give them too much credit. Most of Birmingham-Manchester is 110mph.
Not quite correct. HS stock has such rapid acceleration they could still do 125mph.
I think the linespeed is substantially 110mph, though, isn't it? I haven't really got the energy to look through the Sectional Appendix after a pint and a half of Cotswold Voodoo cider, but a quick google suggests that Coven-southern Stafford and Sandbach-Cheadle Hulme are 125mph, and the rest is 110mph or less.
I am 100% serious in suggesting that @Keir_Starmer announce that HS2 will be built to Manchester and that Labour will rename it the King Charles Railway
Ugh. We could name it after someone who's done something better for the country. Brunel, Pankhurst, Lineker, Austen. Anything but some fucking sausage-fingered monarch.
To Manchester? Not Austen. Name it after the Manchester based author of North and South: welcome to The Mrs Gaskell Line.
One of the earliest and most lifelike examples of a human sculpture – depicting a man holding his phallus with both hands – has been uncovered by archaeologists in Turkey.
The unusual 7.5ft (2.3m)-tall statue was discovered at a prehistoric site known as Karahan Tepe
The DM has a remarkably astute observation about the meaning of these things, especially startling because no-one would ever have thought it before:
"Phalluses typically symbolises fertility or potency."
The grammar is original DM, not mine. It does raise an interesting issue about the plural of phallus which I am sure PBers can sort.
Phalluses is fine. You can use Latin plurals if you like, but they tend to make people feel a bit disconcerted and it takes away from what you're trying to communicate by causing the reader to focus on the grammar. Linguists call this phenomenon the "uncanny phalli".
Does this work with non Latin irregulars? Oxes, gooses, louses, foots, sheeps? These irregulars work their way into the language unnoticed and as quiet as mouses.
I am 100% serious in suggesting that @Keir_Starmer announce that HS2 will be built to Manchester and that Labour will rename it the King Charles Railway
Ugh. We could name it after someone who's done something better for the country. Brunel, Pankhurst, Lineker, Austen. Anything but some fucking sausage-fingered monarch.
Stephenson or Smeaton would make sense.
Make it Stephenson G and John Locke *together*. They did the Grand Junction Railway (Brum to L&M). Smeaton was a canal chappie wasn't he?
That’s interesting spin by them. HS2 will go to Manchester, but on the existing WCML and not at high speed. But it’ll still be HS2, honest.
To bw fair, Crossrail (the Elizabeth Line) runs on pre-exiting track from Shenfield to Stratford and then diverts on to the "new bit" to Paddington and rejoins the pre-existing line west of Paddington.
It's a common tactic (Croydon Tramlink did the same in places). The suggestions for the north-south cross-London link (HS3?) use a lot of existing track with the main construction new tunnels in the capital.
The question then becomes whether you can offer something better than what currently exists - it doesn't have to be quicker butn it has to be reliable and a decent experience for the passenger.
Immediate question comes to mind - are the two systems compatible signalling wise? IANAE so don't have a clue, but high speed trains do tend to have modern signalling kit, communications, automatic train protection, etc. which the existing line may well not.
Ditto catenaries and power supplies.
And what happens about the existing Manc-London trains? What happens to the stations en route?
This is too much like the original pissing about with HS1 - it went ultra fast in Franve and then trundled slowly through Kent to Waterloo, as President Mitterrand said to admire the English scenery.
HS2 was always planned to have two fleets of trains - one for the high-speed route only ('captive'), and 'classic-compatible' ones that could run to other places on the wider railway network.
I am 100% serious in suggesting that @Keir_Starmer announce that HS2 will be built to Manchester and that Labour will rename it the King Charles Railway
NYT - Speaker Kevin McCarthy has lost the vote to kill Representatives Matt Gaetz’s bid to oust him, 208 to 218. That tees an up-or-down vote to remove McCarthy.
He doesn’t deserve support. His futile attempts to ameliorate these nutters condemns him.
But what comes next?
Hopefully a mess where the GOP cannot select a new Speaker until they are thrown out of office.
So the Government shuts down in about 42 days and stays shut down for 15 months?
The continuance that McCarthy passed was for 45 days.
Worst party conference from a ruling party ever? Has to be in the running.
2017 Tory one takes some beating. The P45, the falling letters, the cough sweets.
Yeah, this is worse. The May conference I seem to recall feeling a mix of bemusement and a little bit of sympathy to May. This one is just disdain and counting down the days til they are kicked out.
I am 100% serious in suggesting that @Keir_Starmer announce that HS2 will be built to Manchester and that Labour will rename it the King Charles Railway
Ugh. We could name it after someone who's done something better for the country. Brunel, Pankhurst, Lineker, Austen. Anything but some fucking sausage-fingered monarch.
Stephenson or Smeaton would make sense.
Make it Stephenson G and John Locke *together*. They did the Grand Junction Railway (Brum to L&M). Smeaton was a canal chappie wasn't he?
Name it after the developer of one of the first railways, obvs. I mean, one that linked two sides of the Pennines might come to mind. 'Josias Jessop', perhaps?
That’s interesting spin by them. HS2 will go to Manchester, but on the existing WCML and not at high speed. But it’ll still be HS2, honest.
To bw fair, Crossrail (the Elizabeth Line) runs on pre-exiting track from Shenfield to Stratford and then diverts on to the "new bit" to Paddington and rejoins the pre-existing line west of Paddington.
It's a common tactic (Croydon Tramlink did the same in places). The suggestions for the north-south cross-London link (HS3?) use a lot of existing track with the main construction new tunnels in the capital.
The question then becomes whether you can offer something better than what currently exists - it doesn't have to be quicker butn it has to be reliable and a decent experience for the passenger.
Immediate question comes to mind - are the two systems compatible signalling wise? IANAE so don't have a clue, but high speed trains do tend to have modern signalling kit, communications, automatic train protection, etc. which the existing line may well not.
Ditto catenaries and power supplies.
And what happens about the existing Manc-London trains? What happens to the stations en route?
This is too much like the original pissing about with HS1 - it went ultra fast in Franve and then trundled slowly through Kent to Waterloo, as President Mitterrand said to admire the English scenery.
HS2 was always planned to have two fleets of trains - one for the high-speed route only ('captive'), and 'classic-compatible' ones that could run to other places on the wider railway network.
That makes sense for the longer distance runs north of Wigan Pier and York. But this? They'll be tearing up the contracts, which costs in itself, and making all the trains more expensive now, like when they CBA to electrify [edit] all of the GW main line and had to insist that electric tyrains effectively carry a diesel loco around with them all the time.
I am 100% serious in suggesting that @Keir_Starmer announce that HS2 will be built to Manchester and that Labour will rename it the King Charles Railway
Ugh. We could name it after someone who's done something better for the country. Brunel, Pankhurst, Lineker, Austen. Anything but some fucking sausage-fingered monarch.
Stephenson or Smeaton would make sense.
Make it Stephenson G and John Locke *together*. They did the Grand Junction Railway (Brum to L&M). Smeaton was a canal chappie wasn't he?
Name it after the developer of one of the first railways, obvs. I mean, one that linked two sides of the Pennines might come to mind. 'Josias Jessop', perhaps?
Comments
The continuance that McCarthy passed was for 45 days.
Corbyn too, though well beaten in 2019, got much closer than expected in 2017 and Michael Howard, a hard rightwinger, won most votes in England in 2005 despite overall UK defeat
(((Dan Hodges)))
@DPJHodges
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20m
Large numbers of people leaving Tory conference tonight because there are no trains tomorrow. Thereby missing the PM’s speech announcing the axing of the Manchester rail upgrade. Historians will write entire chapters on the events of the past two weeks…
Perhaps the Democrats should say they'll back McCarthy but only if he brings forwards a 15 month bill not a 45 days one, and a Ukraine bill.
PGMOL releases VAR audio from Liverpool's disallowed goal against Spurs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhpgelkcnJ8
The fact that Hawkeye requires an operator to manually draw a line is actually pretty piss poor technology in this day and age.
Not so much HS2 as InterCity125.
Or they could transfer freight from London onto handcarts somewhere in the Chilterns area and use existing old drovers tracks.
Sunak was supposed to be the bloody adult in the room.
If anything Rishi is the Tory equivalent of David Miliband, they haven't even got to their Ed Miliband yet let alone a Corbyn as leader
So the PM, despite telling me today he wasn’t going to be forced into making premature decisions’ about HS2, had made the decision (which I put directly to him in our i/v)
Except perhaps, “the last train to London leaves in fifteen minutes….”
Sophy Ridge
@SophyRidgeSky
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1h
Advocates of HS2 are unhappy because will put more pressure on existing (non high speed) line
Isn't maths fun?
I am 100% serious in suggesting that @Keir_Starmer announce that HS2 will be built to Manchester and that Labour will rename it the King Charles Railway
https://x.com/psythor/status/1709284488247746657?s=46
I'm just putting the line down....
Review complete....
Wait wait wait.....the original decision was different....
Well done boys....good process...carry on.....
Are you happy with this....
yeah all good....
Erhhh ok....
We don't care about the units. It's the track we need. Because it's not about speed, it's about capacity. So this isn't HS2 going to Manchester.
Mind you, this is one of the journos who still hadn't grasped 18 months into the pandemic that death figures went up on a Tuesday.
Lib Dems launch new digital attack ad in the “blue wall.”
On such things does history turn.
The Conservatives literally rubbished this idea in their own rail plan.
And GM warned it could actually make things worse by *increasing* delays on the West Coast Mainline
Only the Conservatives could draw up a plan that could actually make northern transport worse than before.
"Phalluses typically symbolises fertility or potency."
The grammar is original DM, not mine. It does raise an interesting issue about the plural of phallus which I am sure PBers can sort.
@tompeck
To be fair to
@RishiSunak
, a lot of people were annoyed when he tried to scrap the 20mph speed limit. He’s listened, he’s heard, and he’s introduced it on the rail network instead.
15 “Very well,” he said, “I will let you bake your bread over cow dung instead of human excrement.”
Is this like the horseshoe theory but for maturity? Their politicians have become so old they've reverted back to being children.
https://youtu.be/Up4WjdabA2c
But Sunak's delivery is more like the tannoy announcement towards the end.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_West_Main_Line#Future_development
If Labour change this it’ll either be through changing the interpretation and guidance HMRC need to follow (difficult given years of precedent), introducing some kind of bright line test eg it’s only capital if you hold for 5 years or more (issue would be collateral damage to other industries and individuals), or doing something specific to the funds industry (most likely, but might be open to being planned around).
Only about somewhat slow trains.
Pelosi's successor hasn't seemed to make much of a name for himself yet.
Ditto catenaries and power supplies.
And what happens about the existing Manc-London trains? What happens to the stations en route?
This is too much like the original pissing about with HS1 - it went ultra fast in Franve and then trundled slowly through Kent to Waterloo, as President Mitterrand said to admire the English scenery.
I sense we are in for a complex philosophical debate over whether, if a high speed rail line from point A stops being high speed past point B, it can still be claimed to be a high speed rail line to point C.
My instinct is no…
The much bigger problem being there would need to be several changes:
1) There's no link at Birmingham. The link is at Handsacre near Lichfield. So there would need to be major and rather expensive changes to the layout of Curzon Street;
2) The section to Crewe has already been authorised and construction begun so primary legislation would be needed to halt it - the debate might be embarrassing for the government;
3) Without HS2 even the farcical IRP can't be honoured, revealing Grant Shapps to be an even bigger and more incompetent liar than we already all thought he was. That might lead to him being kicked out of Parliament (we can but hope. Makes Johnson look honest).
Northern Powerhouse event at the Conservative Party conference cancelled abruptly at short notice
Metaphors take the rest of the decade off
or possibly
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EntertaininglyWrong
The one where Gordo U-turned on the GE announcement had similar feel of yes, no, no decision, erhhhh..after briefing all the media there would be one.
new HS2 logo just dropped
This roll call will be a voice vote, in alpha order, as per vote to elected KMcC in the first place.
Hosting it in a city you have just decided to cut off from the nation’s biggest infrastructure project since the motorways.
A hero’s welcome for a man who has spent two decades campaigning against you from your right flank.
A policy platform based on opposition to your own party’s prior legislation.
The uncritical airing of actual conspiracy theories.
There are more.
Was that also the Dancing Queen one?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josias_Jessop
Er ... sorry, see the problem.