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A LAB majority stays at a near 65% betting chance – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,161
edited October 2023 in General
imageA LAB majority stays at a near 65% betting chance – politicalbetting.com

Starmer’s party, which hasn’t been getting much attention recently, is retaining its position in the next general election betting and is rated as a 65% chance of achieving an overall majority.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155
    edited October 2023
    I've been saying this for a while - the evidence of our eyes is a decent chunk of Tory voters abstaining, and Labour getting back some voters they lost at the last GE - leading to a Labour win via default. I guess we'll see if conferences and the new defence of cars politics by the Tories changes any of that...

    Edit: First
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,058
    https://x.com/peterwalker99/status/1709162281861370153?s=20

    London Tory mayoral candidate Susan Hall was due to be on a conference fringe right now - but is mysteriously not. I wonder if it’s linked to her much-criticised comments last night that London’s Jewish communities are “frightened” about “divisive” Sadiq Khan.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,376
    CatMan said:

    https://x.com/peterwalker99/status/1709162281861370153?s=20

    London Tory mayoral candidate Susan Hall was due to be on a conference fringe right now - but is mysteriously not. I wonder if it’s linked to her much-criticised comments last night that London’s Jewish communities are “frightened” about “divisive” Sadiq Khan.

    Lots of fake offence around over this. When similar comments were made about Jeremy Corbyn before the last election there was barely a murmur.
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155
    I would be really interested in the % of the electorate who are likely to vote tactically at the next GE - and what information they plan to base their vote on (GE 2019 results, poll predictions, gut feelings, etc.). I think that understanding how much of the Labour / LD vote share is just a tactical vote to kick out the local Tory would be more useful at the moment at predicting majorities and their size than just the percentage figure.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Fpt

    Americans certainly do like cheese. If you go to a Walmart there will be aisles and aisles of it - but it will all be about 3 varieties - Jack, Monterey Jack, versions of cheddar. “Philadelphia” - the rest will be different forms of this with different shapes, processing and added bits

    What they don’t have is a sophisticated market for cheese nor a taste for runny, pungent, blue, or goaty cheese - ie all the best stuff

    But this used to be true of American beer. It used to be universally shit and gassy and pasteurised. Now they have one of the best beer cultures in the world and you can get excellent craft IPA anywhere in the country - a much better selection than most European countries (which will have 3 or 4 predictable beers)

    So they may wise up to cheese in a similar way
  • Taz said:

    CatMan said:

    https://x.com/peterwalker99/status/1709162281861370153?s=20

    London Tory mayoral candidate Susan Hall was due to be on a conference fringe right now - but is mysteriously not. I wonder if it’s linked to her much-criticised comments last night that London’s Jewish communities are “frightened” about “divisive” Sadiq Khan.

    Lots of fake offence around over this. When similar comments were made about Jeremy Corbyn before the last election there was barely a murmur.
    Err, did you not remember several MPs leaving the Labour party, some stating that they were intimidated and threatened?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited October 2023
    Leon said:

    Fpt

    Americans certainly do like cheese. If you go to a Walmart there will be aisles and aisles of it - but it will all be about 3 varieties - Jack, Monterey Jack, versions of cheddar. “Philadelphia” - the rest will be different forms of this with different shapes, processing and added bits

    What they don’t have is a sophisticated market for cheese nor a taste for runny, pungent, blue, or goaty cheese - ie all the best stuff

    But this used to be true of American beer. It used to be universally shit and gassy and pasteurised. Now they have one of the best beer cultures in the world and you can get excellent craft IPA anywhere in the country - a much better selection than most European countries (which will have 3 or 4 predictable beers)

    So they may wise up to cheese in a similar way

    The speed of that transition was also quite astounding. It felt like it went from only crap like Bud being available through the weird "Pabst Blue Ribbon is cool / hipster" phase, to craft IPA being everywhere from big brands like Sierra Nevada / Lagunitas (unfortunately owned by Heineken now) to regional ones in the matter of a few years...all the supermarkets are filled with massive aisles of choice on this front.
  • carnforth said:

    On beef imports it's pretty simple. Australia could literally swamp the UK market and put most of our farmers out of business. The meat won't be as good - not after blast freezing and shipping half way round the world. But it will be cheap, and where price is all that matters it would take over.

    The challenge is two-fold: our farmers can't compete (scale) so there is no free market argument for letting Australia shut down UK producers. Secondly, we will have to face into a huge increase in the price of (imported) milk and the end of the cheese industry as we know it.

    The ghost of David Ricardo wants to know what the problem with that is?

    If milk is cheaper domestically then it would be farmed, not imported.
    The joy of a free market dominated by a small number of big food producers. You will eat what we tell you to eat, because what we sell will be all you can afford.

    cf American "Cheese"

    You're a libertarian. What liberty is there in allowing food megaliths to crush the competition and reduce people's choices?
    I lived downunder.

    They have plenty of good quality meat and cheeses.

    Just because Americans don't like cheese, that's cultural not economic.

    Liberty is in letting people make their own choices. If people choose Australian beef, and I would, then so be it. That's free choice in action.

    Protectionism is illiberal.
    No, there won't be a choice. There will be Australian beef or Australian beef. What is left of the UK beef industry will be small scale and posh because it can survive with few consumers willing to pay lots.

    Again, the challenge is what happens to dairy. At least we could still eat burgers. And drink imported milk. But is Cheddar cheese still Cheddar when the milk is imported frozen from Germany?
    Australia, 24.4 million head of cattle, 15 million of which exported.
    UK, 9.4 million
    RoI, 7.5 million

    The only way Australia could replace the entire UK production of cheaper beef, and replace our imports of cheap RoI beef would be to export here, and nowhere else in the world. Doesn't seem very likely.
    Well said. But protectionists don't let petty things like facts or logic get in the way of their protectionism.

    Kiwi protectionists used to make the same arguments as to why scrapping agricultural subsidies would be a terrible idea. Instead they're major exporters without subsidies now.

    If protectionism and subsidies were abolished then the land our farmers use won't suddenly and magically vanish overnight. They'll find productive ways to use the land, just as the Kiwis have, and there will always be some willing to pay for a union flag to be stamped on their product anyway.

    More choice is good for consumers, and our land being used productively is good for us as a country and ultimately for farmers too, even if they want to take the easy way out of protectionism instead.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    @Samfr

    When I did my one of these "corrupt" was much bigger and "useless" much smaller. Which suggests people now think they're too incompetent to manage much corruption.


  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    No need for a vote - just hand me the nomination already.

    Trump campaign calls on RNC to cancel third GOP debate
    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4235076-trump-campaign-calls-on-rnc-to-cancel-third-gop-debate/

    Expect the same for the general election.
    If he's the nominee.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited October 2023
    Leon said:

    Fpt

    Americans certainly do like cheese. If you go to a Walmart there will be aisles and aisles of it - but it will all be about 3 varieties - Jack, Monterey Jack, versions of cheddar. “Philadelphia” - the rest will be different forms of this with different shapes, processing and added bits

    What they don’t have is a sophisticated market for cheese nor a taste for runny, pungent, blue, or goaty cheese - ie all the best stuff

    But this used to be true of American beer. It used to be universally shit and gassy and pasteurised. Now they have one of the best beer cultures in the world and you can get excellent craft IPA anywhere in the country - a much better selection than most European countries (which will have 3 or 4 predictable beers)

    So they may wise up to cheese in a similar way

    I think when it comes to food, it is like a lot of US, the two extremes with the "middle" not being great. You have your rich that shop at Whole Foods or regional chains like Publix, which are often a better form of Waitrose...then the other extreme of Walmart / Dollar Tree where they might not even carry any fresh food. The middle like Albertsons are quite shitty in comparison to what we have here.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    @BethRigby

    On
    @skynews
    now. Our sitdown with the PM
    - GE is "not what the country wants"
    - On HS2, PM is "not going to get forced into making premature decisions"
    - PM denies conf been chaotic & says people have "a spring in their step
    - Will you be PM after the next election? “Of course"
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,243
    Fpt @IanB2
    IanB2 said:

    On beef imports it's pretty simple. Australia could literally swamp the UK market and put most of our farmers out of business. The meat won't be as good - not after blast freezing and shipping half way round the world. But it will be cheap, and where price is all that matters it would take over.

    The challenge is two-fold: our farmers can't compete (scale) so there is no free market argument for letting Australia shut down UK producers. Secondly, we will have to face into a huge increase in the price of (imported) milk and the end of the cheese industry as we know it.

    The ghost of David Ricardo wants to know what the problem with that is?

    If milk is cheaper domestically then it would be farmed, not imported.
    The joy of a free market dominated by a small number of big food producers. You will eat what we tell you to eat, because what we sell will be all you can afford.

    cf American "Cheese"

    You're a libertarian. What liberty is there in allowing food megaliths to crush the competition and reduce people's choices?
    I lived downunder.

    They have plenty of good quality meat and cheeses.

    Just because Americans don't like cheese, that's cultural not economic.

    Liberty is in letting people make their own choices. If people choose Australian beef, and I would, then so be it. That's free choice in action.

    Protectionism is illiberal.
    You can’t buy proper cheese in the US, it seems.

    I went to a cheese tasting by an artisan cheese maker once, in upstate NY. They were all basically the same cheese, just with bits of different things in them, herbs, ginger, garlic, cranberry, etc.
    It’s worse than that.

    Last time I was there someone tried to sell me Gruyere-style Cheddar

    *shudders*


  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited October 2023
    On what the US does crap in supermarkets #1204243....bread....so much of it is like cake.
  • Leon said:

    Fpt

    Americans certainly do like cheese. If you go to a Walmart there will be aisles and aisles of it - but it will all be about 3 varieties - Jack, Monterey Jack, versions of cheddar. “Philadelphia” - the rest will be different forms of this with different shapes, processing and added bits

    What they don’t have is a sophisticated market for cheese nor a taste for runny, pungent, blue, or goaty cheese - ie all the best stuff

    But this used to be true of American beer. It used to be universally shit and gassy and pasteurised. Now they have one of the best beer cultures in the world and you can get excellent craft IPA anywhere in the country - a much better selection than most European countries (which will have 3 or 4 predictable beers)

    So they may wise up to cheese in a similar way

    When I first visited the US in 1978 there were two types of cheese readily available: American (which was as dire as it sounds) and Swiss (which was American with air bubbles). It's a lot better now, thanks to ageing hippy upstate goat-herders.
  • theProletheProle Posts: 1,206
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    @Eabhal , @BartholomewRoberts I wish to check the reality of south/north car ownership but...

    NE, NW, Yorks & Humber are obviously northern regions and SW, SE & London obviously southern.

    But I need to know how are you counting the East of England, East & West Midlands in your South/North discussion.

    Are either of you including Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland ?

    No, I mean England.

    I'd class East of England and East & West Midlands as Midlands, neither North nor South personally.
    Righty-ho.

    I'll check for 'control by density' too. I'll have to assume all households are the same size...

    No car/van %

    https://view.officeapps.live.com/op/view.aspx?src=https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1180877/nts9902.ods&wdOrigin=BROWSELINK

    2022 North East 28% 2.7M Area: 8579 km2
    2022 North West 20% 7.3M Area 14108 km2
    2022 Yorkshire and the Humber 23% 5.5M 15405 km2

    2022 London 41% 9M 1572 km2
    2022 South East 15% 9.2M 19072 km2
    2022 South West 13% 5.6M 23836 km2

    North: 15.5M people, NO cars 22.4% 38092 km2 1 or more car 77.6%
    South: 23.8M people, NO cars 24.3% 44480 km2 1 or more car 75.7%

    Northern car use a bit higher than southern. I expect the difference is probably explained by income.
    Isn't the ownership rate a really poor proxy for use rates? My car does ~20k miles a year. My wife's car does about ~4k miles a year.

    I suspect that the big North - South divide isn't so much in the rates of ownership as in the milages driven. I'd expect to discover that many more people actually use their cars to commute every day in the North, as opposed cars just used for the odd run out to the shops and to take the kids to see the grandparents at the weekend.

    My maternal grandparents lived in Bexleyheath, had a car, and only really used it on the weekend - they caught the train to work. That's going to be much more typical in the South than the North.

    As an aside - my town has a good train service to Manchester. Thanks to perverse ticket pricing structures, most Manchester bound commuters drive parallel to the railway for 5 miles and then catch the train from a station slightly nearer Manchester, as the season tickets from there are around half the price...

  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155
    Nigelb said:

    No need for a vote - just hand me the nomination already.

    Trump campaign calls on RNC to cancel third GOP debate
    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4235076-trump-campaign-calls-on-rnc-to-cancel-third-gop-debate/

    Expect the same for the general election.
    If he's the nominee.

    Trump gains nothing from the GOP debates - he is well ahead and can only slip up (also he might need a judge's permission to be on stage with Mike Pence as he is a witness in an open case against him).

    I think Trump will be more than happy to debate Biden - I think Trump views himself as more capable a debater than Biden, and it would be a useful way to show that Biden is older than Trump in a way that goes into how they present each other. Part of that is energy levels, and in that sense Trump (and even other old politicians like Sanders) does come across as significantly younger than Biden.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011
    "Craft" = over-priced keg

    And what is it with Americans and IPA? Do they have a history of exporting ale to the sub-continent?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited October 2023
    One of the most disappointing foods visits I have done in the US was to Tillamook, supposed famed for it cheese...Been going 115 years, farmer-owned dairy cooperative, ticks all the Jezza Corbyn responsible capitalism, so you would think well it must be half decent right...Tillamook, more like Tallamuck.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    @SkyNews

    "This was meant to be the Rishi reset, but it's turning into the Rishi shambles" - Sky's
    @BethRigby


    "I just don't agree with that characterisation" -
    @RishiSunak


    The prime minister adds that people he's met "have got a spring in their step".

    http://trib.al/YKanzN3
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    On what the US does crap in supermarkets #1204243....bread....so much of it is like cake.

    Yes the bread is appalling. Likewise the charcuterie

    In fact most supermarket food in America is seriously bad compared to the west European equivalent. Even if you go to whole foods or a deli you can struggle (and you will pay $$$$$)

    The beer is great tho. And the wine is good
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011

    On what the US does crap in supermarkets #1204243....bread....so much of it is like cake.

    See also:

    Milk in plastic bags
    Sticks of butter
  • Scott_xP said:

    @BethRigby

    On
    @skynews
    now. Our sitdown with the PM
    - GE is "not what the country wants"
    - On HS2, PM is "not going to get forced into making premature decisions"
    - PM denies conf been chaotic & says people have "a spring in their step
    - Will you be PM after the next election? “Of course"

    Well, the polls close at ten and it takes a couple of hours for the results to be declared, I guess.

    (But honestly. What else was he going to say?)

    On topic, isn't Labour needing a 7% lead very sensitive to the tactical and Scottish situations?

    Both of those were almost as bad as they could be for the red team in 2019.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited October 2023

    On what the US does crap in supermarkets #1204243....bread....so much of it is like cake.

    See also:

    Milk in plastic bags
    Sticks of butter
    Milk in plastic bags <- Isn't that more a Canadian thing? Normally US its those mega sized gallon bottles of milk that unless you have an Amirsh sized family you won't get through before it goes off.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,706
    Why, then, do MAGA politicians want to cut Ukraine off?

    The answer is, unfortunately, obvious. Whatever Republican hard-liners may say, they want Putin to win. They view the Putin regime’s cruelty and repression as admirable features that America should emulate. They support a wannabe dictator at home and are sympathetic to actual dictators abroad.

    So pay no attention to all those complaints about how much we’re spending in Ukraine. They aren’t justified by the actual cost of aid, and the people claiming to be worried about the cost don’t really care about the money. What they are, basically, is enemies of democracy, both abroad and at home.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/02/opinion/columnists/maga-republicans-ukraine.html
  • theProle said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    @Eabhal , @BartholomewRoberts I wish to check the reality of south/north car ownership but...

    NE, NW, Yorks & Humber are obviously northern regions and SW, SE & London obviously southern.

    But I need to know how are you counting the East of England, East & West Midlands in your South/North discussion.

    Are either of you including Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland ?

    No, I mean England.

    I'd class East of England and East & West Midlands as Midlands, neither North nor South personally.
    Righty-ho.

    I'll check for 'control by density' too. I'll have to assume all households are the same size...

    No car/van %

    https://view.officeapps.live.com/op/view.aspx?src=https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1180877/nts9902.ods&amp;wdOrigin=BROWSELINK

    2022 North East 28% 2.7M Area: 8579 km2
    2022 North West 20% 7.3M Area 14108 km2
    2022 Yorkshire and the Humber 23% 5.5M 15405 km2

    2022 London 41% 9M 1572 km2
    2022 South East 15% 9.2M 19072 km2
    2022 South West 13% 5.6M 23836 km2

    North: 15.5M people, NO cars 22.4% 38092 km2 1 or more car 77.6%
    South: 23.8M people, NO cars 24.3% 44480 km2 1 or more car 75.7%

    Northern car use a bit higher than southern. I expect the difference is probably explained by income.
    Isn't the ownership rate a really poor proxy for use rates? My car does ~20k miles a year. My wife's car does about ~4k miles a year.

    I suspect that the big North - South divide isn't so much in the rates of ownership as in the milages driven. I'd expect to discover that many more people actually use their cars to commute every day in the North, as opposed cars just used for the odd run out to the shops and to take the kids to see the grandparents at the weekend.

    My maternal grandparents lived in Bexleyheath, had a car, and only really used it on the weekend - they caught the train to work. That's going to be much more typical in the South than the North.

    As an aside - my town has a good train service to Manchester. Thanks to perverse ticket pricing structures, most Manchester bound commuters drive parallel to the railway for 5 miles and then catch the train from a station slightly nearer Manchester, as the season tickets from there are around half the price...

    Excellent point.

    Yes and using the same definition of North (North West, North East, Yorkshire and the Humber) and South (South West, South East and London) we get the following for commuters.

    North: 74.3% drive
    South: 57.3% drive

    Proving conclusively once and for all that Northerners primarily drive. Though incidentally so too do Southerners.

    Incidentally once more its not a North/South divide as much as a London/everyone else divide. South West and South East exc London are almost indistinguishable from the North (even including Liverpool/Manchester) at 75% too.

    Realistically, three quarters drive around the entire country (with walking being primary alternative for non-drivers) everywhere except London where the roads are appalling.

    Thankfully here in the North we aren't herded about like cattle in London and piled high with most being unable to either have their own transportation or a home of their own.
  • On what the US does crap in supermarkets #1204243....bread....so much of it is like cake.

    See also:

    Milk in plastic bags
    Sticks of butter
    Milk in plastic bags ... Isn't that more a Canadian thing? Normally US its those mega sized gallon bottles of milk that unless you have an Amirsh sized family you won't get through before it goes off.
    Milk in plastic bags is common in the Southern hemisphere too. We had it in Australia and my wife had it in South Africa.

    Not sure why its not done here, although notably it is for commercial usage (eg Starbucks etc)
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,188
    edited October 2023
    theProle said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    @Eabhal , @BartholomewRoberts I wish to check the reality of south/north car ownership but...

    NE, NW, Yorks & Humber are obviously northern regions and SW, SE & London obviously southern.

    But I need to know how are you counting the East of England, East & West Midlands in your South/North discussion.

    Are either of you including Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland ?

    No, I mean England.

    I'd class East of England and East & West Midlands as Midlands, neither North nor South personally.
    Righty-ho.

    I'll check for 'control by density' too. I'll have to assume all households are the same size...

    No car/van %

    https://view.officeapps.live.com/op/view.aspx?src=https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1180877/nts9902.ods&amp;wdOrigin=BROWSELINK

    2022 North East 28% 2.7M Area: 8579 km2
    2022 North West 20% 7.3M Area 14108 km2
    2022 Yorkshire and the Humber 23% 5.5M 15405 km2

    2022 London 41% 9M 1572 km2
    2022 South East 15% 9.2M 19072 km2
    2022 South West 13% 5.6M 23836 km2

    North: 15.5M people, NO cars 22.4% 38092 km2 1 or more car 77.6%
    South: 23.8M people, NO cars 24.3% 44480 km2 1 or more car 75.7%

    Northern car use a bit higher than southern. I expect the difference is probably explained by income.
    Isn't the ownership rate a really poor proxy for use rates? My car does ~20k miles a year. My wife's car does about ~4k miles a year.

    I suspect that the big North - South divide isn't so much in the rates of ownership as in the milages driven. I'd expect to discover that many more people actually use their cars to commute every day in the North, as opposed cars just used for the odd run out to the shops and to take the kids to see the grandparents at the weekend.

    My maternal grandparents lived in Bexleyheath, had a car, and only really used it on the weekend - they caught the train to work. That's going to be much more typical in the South than the North.

    As an aside - my town has a good train service to Manchester. Thanks to perverse ticket pricing structures, most Manchester bound commuters drive parallel to the railway for 5 miles and then catch the train from a station slightly nearer Manchester, as the season tickets from there are around half the price...

    No real difference between car commute %s south and north, ex London. Bexleyheath is considered part of the London region.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Leon said:

    Fpt

    Americans certainly do like cheese. If you go to a Walmart there will be aisles and aisles of it - but it will all be about 3 varieties - Jack, Monterey Jack, versions of cheddar. “Philadelphia” - the rest will be different forms of this with different shapes, processing and added bits

    What they don’t have is a sophisticated market for cheese nor a taste for runny, pungent, blue, or goaty cheese - ie all the best stuff

    But this used to be true of American beer. It used to be universally shit and gassy and pasteurised. Now they have one of the best beer cultures in the world and you can get excellent craft IPA anywhere in the country - a much better selection than most European countries (which will have 3 or 4 predictable beers)

    So they may wise up to cheese in a similar way

    The speed of that transition was also quite astounding. It felt like it went from only crap like Bud being available through the weird "Pabst Blue Ribbon is cool / hipster" phase, to craft IPA being everywhere from big brands like Sierra Nevada / Lagunitas (unfortunately owned by Heineken now) to regional ones in the matter of a few years...all the supermarkets are filled with massive aisles of choice on this front.
    Yes it was a bit like the British food revolution. Except even quicker. What took us 30 years they did in about 10-15 for beer
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155

    Why, then, do MAGA politicians want to cut Ukraine off?

    The answer is, unfortunately, obvious. Whatever Republican hard-liners may say, they want Putin to win. They view the Putin regime’s cruelty and repression as admirable features that America should emulate. They support a wannabe dictator at home and are sympathetic to actual dictators abroad.

    So pay no attention to all those complaints about how much we’re spending in Ukraine. They aren’t justified by the actual cost of aid, and the people claiming to be worried about the cost don’t really care about the money. What they are, basically, is enemies of democracy, both abroad and at home.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/02/opinion/columnists/maga-republicans-ukraine.html

    The GOP have been more positive about Russia and Putin since the Obama years - during the time where equal marriage was being secured, Russia was often presented as the real saviour of traditional living and the western way of life. Homophobia, high rates of religiosity, a feeling that men are the head of the family, etc. They look at Putin (and Orban) as the kind of leader they want because they are doing the kind of "anti woke" politics the right wing want.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,706

    Scott_xP said:

    @BethRigby

    On
    @skynews
    now. Our sitdown with the PM
    - GE is "not what the country wants"
    - On HS2, PM is "not going to get forced into making premature decisions"
    - PM denies conf been chaotic & says people have "a spring in their step
    - Will you be PM after the next election? “Of course"

    Well, the polls close at ten and it takes a couple of hours for the results to be declared, I guess.

    (But honestly. What else was he going to say?)

    On topic, isn't Labour needing a 7% lead very sensitive to the tactical and Scottish situations?

    Both of those were almost as bad as they could be for the red team in 2019.
    "On HS2, PM is "not going to get forced into making premature decisions" "

    But of course it wont be "premature" when he announces it in 24 hours time.

  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,647
    theProle said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    @Eabhal , @BartholomewRoberts I wish to check the reality of south/north car ownership but...

    NE, NW, Yorks & Humber are obviously northern regions and SW, SE & London obviously southern.

    But I need to know how are you counting the East of England, East & West Midlands in your South/North discussion.

    Are either of you including Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland ?

    No, I mean England.

    I'd class East of England and East & West Midlands as Midlands, neither North nor South personally.
    Righty-ho.

    I'll check for 'control by density' too. I'll have to assume all households are the same size...

    No car/van %

    https://view.officeapps.live.com/op/view.aspx?src=https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1180877/nts9902.ods&amp;wdOrigin=BROWSELINK

    2022 North East 28% 2.7M Area: 8579 km2
    2022 North West 20% 7.3M Area 14108 km2
    2022 Yorkshire and the Humber 23% 5.5M 15405 km2

    2022 London 41% 9M 1572 km2
    2022 South East 15% 9.2M 19072 km2
    2022 South West 13% 5.6M 23836 km2

    North: 15.5M people, NO cars 22.4% 38092 km2 1 or more car 77.6%
    South: 23.8M people, NO cars 24.3% 44480 km2 1 or more car 75.7%

    Northern car use a bit higher than southern. I expect the difference is probably explained by income.
    Isn't the ownership rate a really poor proxy for use rates? My car does ~20k miles a year. My wife's car does about ~4k miles a year.

    I suspect that the big North - South divide isn't so much in the rates of ownership as in the milages driven. I'd expect to discover that many more people actually use their cars to commute every day in the North, as opposed cars just used for the odd run out to the shops and to take the kids to see the grandparents at the weekend.

    My maternal grandparents lived in Bexleyheath, had a car, and only really used it on the weekend - they caught the train to work. That's going to be much more typical in the South than the North.

    As an aside - my town has a good train service to Manchester. Thanks to perverse ticket pricing structures, most Manchester bound commuters drive parallel to the railway for 5 miles and then catch the train from a station slightly nearer Manchester, as the season tickets from there are around half the price...

    Commute distances are remarkably consistent across the country, including London.

    So it basically boils down to a lack of decent public transport provision if mileage is greater in the north (I assume so). If we also assume that public transport needs a certain level of population density to be sustainable, then we find huge variance across England. Birmingham and suburbs bad, Newcastle and suburbs good.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited October 2023

    "Craft" = over-priced keg

    And what is it with Americans and IPA? Do they have a history of exporting ale to the sub-continent?

    https://aeronautbrewing.wordpress.com/2020/04/02/history-of-the-india-pale-ale/

    Basically it was people on the west coast of US that brought this type of beer back to life in the 70/80s, and incorporated varieties of hops that can grown abundantly there.

    Then NEIPA, is obviously New England's / East Coast version of this that came much more recently.

    Compared to the watered down crap like Bud they had been drinking for past 100+ years, not surprising it took hold.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,647
    Pulpstar said:

    theProle said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    @Eabhal , @BartholomewRoberts I wish to check the reality of south/north car ownership but...

    NE, NW, Yorks & Humber are obviously northern regions and SW, SE & London obviously southern.

    But I need to know how are you counting the East of England, East & West Midlands in your South/North discussion.

    Are either of you including Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland ?

    No, I mean England.

    I'd class East of England and East & West Midlands as Midlands, neither North nor South personally.
    Righty-ho.

    I'll check for 'control by density' too. I'll have to assume all households are the same size...

    No car/van %

    https://view.officeapps.live.com/op/view.aspx?src=https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1180877/nts9902.ods&amp;wdOrigin=BROWSELINK

    2022 North East 28% 2.7M Area: 8579 km2
    2022 North West 20% 7.3M Area 14108 km2
    2022 Yorkshire and the Humber 23% 5.5M 15405 km2

    2022 London 41% 9M 1572 km2
    2022 South East 15% 9.2M 19072 km2
    2022 South West 13% 5.6M 23836 km2

    North: 15.5M people, NO cars 22.4% 38092 km2 1 or more car 77.6%
    South: 23.8M people, NO cars 24.3% 44480 km2 1 or more car 75.7%

    Northern car use a bit higher than southern. I expect the difference is probably explained by income.
    Isn't the ownership rate a really poor proxy for use rates? My car does ~20k miles a year. My wife's car does about ~4k miles a year.

    I suspect that the big North - South divide isn't so much in the rates of ownership as in the milages driven. I'd expect to discover that many more people actually use their cars to commute every day in the North, as opposed cars just used for the odd run out to the shops and to take the kids to see the grandparents at the weekend.

    My maternal grandparents lived in Bexleyheath, had a car, and only really used it on the weekend - they caught the train to work. That's going to be much more typical in the South than the North.

    As an aside - my town has a good train service to Manchester. Thanks to perverse ticket pricing structures, most Manchester bound commuters drive parallel to the railway for 5 miles and then catch the train from a station slightly nearer Manchester, as the season tickets from there are around half the price...

    No real difference between car commute %s south and north, ex London. Bexleyheath is considered part of the London region.
    London commutes are surprisingly long too, I found.
  • .
    Eabhal said:

    theProle said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    @Eabhal , @BartholomewRoberts I wish to check the reality of south/north car ownership but...

    NE, NW, Yorks & Humber are obviously northern regions and SW, SE & London obviously southern.

    But I need to know how are you counting the East of England, East & West Midlands in your South/North discussion.

    Are either of you including Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland ?

    No, I mean England.

    I'd class East of England and East & West Midlands as Midlands, neither North nor South personally.
    Righty-ho.

    I'll check for 'control by density' too. I'll have to assume all households are the same size...

    No car/van %

    https://view.officeapps.live.com/op/view.aspx?src=https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1180877/nts9902.ods&amp;wdOrigin=BROWSELINK

    2022 North East 28% 2.7M Area: 8579 km2
    2022 North West 20% 7.3M Area 14108 km2
    2022 Yorkshire and the Humber 23% 5.5M 15405 km2

    2022 London 41% 9M 1572 km2
    2022 South East 15% 9.2M 19072 km2
    2022 South West 13% 5.6M 23836 km2

    North: 15.5M people, NO cars 22.4% 38092 km2 1 or more car 77.6%
    South: 23.8M people, NO cars 24.3% 44480 km2 1 or more car 75.7%

    Northern car use a bit higher than southern. I expect the difference is probably explained by income.
    Isn't the ownership rate a really poor proxy for use rates? My car does ~20k miles a year. My wife's car does about ~4k miles a year.

    I suspect that the big North - South divide isn't so much in the rates of ownership as in the milages driven. I'd expect to discover that many more people actually use their cars to commute every day in the North, as opposed cars just used for the odd run out to the shops and to take the kids to see the grandparents at the weekend.

    My maternal grandparents lived in Bexleyheath, had a car, and only really used it on the weekend - they caught the train to work. That's going to be much more typical in the South than the North.

    As an aside - my town has a good train service to Manchester. Thanks to perverse ticket pricing structures, most Manchester bound commuters drive parallel to the railway for 5 miles and then catch the train from a station slightly nearer Manchester, as the season tickets from there are around half the price...

    Commute distances are remarkably consistent across the country, including London.

    So it basically boils down to a lack of decent public transport provision if mileage is greater in the north (I assume so). If we also assume that public transport needs a certain level of population density to be sustainable, then we find huge variance across England. Birmingham and suburbs bad, Newcastle and suburbs good.
    No. It basically boils down to London's roads are shit, so Londoners are forced off them.

    Everyone else gets to drive, which is better.
  • .
    Eabhal said:

    Pulpstar said:

    theProle said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    @Eabhal , @BartholomewRoberts I wish to check the reality of south/north car ownership but...

    NE, NW, Yorks & Humber are obviously northern regions and SW, SE & London obviously southern.

    But I need to know how are you counting the East of England, East & West Midlands in your South/North discussion.

    Are either of you including Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland ?

    No, I mean England.

    I'd class East of England and East & West Midlands as Midlands, neither North nor South personally.
    Righty-ho.

    I'll check for 'control by density' too. I'll have to assume all households are the same size...

    No car/van %

    https://view.officeapps.live.com/op/view.aspx?src=https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1180877/nts9902.ods&amp;wdOrigin=BROWSELINK

    2022 North East 28% 2.7M Area: 8579 km2
    2022 North West 20% 7.3M Area 14108 km2
    2022 Yorkshire and the Humber 23% 5.5M 15405 km2

    2022 London 41% 9M 1572 km2
    2022 South East 15% 9.2M 19072 km2
    2022 South West 13% 5.6M 23836 km2

    North: 15.5M people, NO cars 22.4% 38092 km2 1 or more car 77.6%
    South: 23.8M people, NO cars 24.3% 44480 km2 1 or more car 75.7%

    Northern car use a bit higher than southern. I expect the difference is probably explained by income.
    Isn't the ownership rate a really poor proxy for use rates? My car does ~20k miles a year. My wife's car does about ~4k miles a year.

    I suspect that the big North - South divide isn't so much in the rates of ownership as in the milages driven. I'd expect to discover that many more people actually use their cars to commute every day in the North, as opposed cars just used for the odd run out to the shops and to take the kids to see the grandparents at the weekend.

    My maternal grandparents lived in Bexleyheath, had a car, and only really used it on the weekend - they caught the train to work. That's going to be much more typical in the South than the North.

    As an aside - my town has a good train service to Manchester. Thanks to perverse ticket pricing structures, most Manchester bound commuters drive parallel to the railway for 5 miles and then catch the train from a station slightly nearer Manchester, as the season tickets from there are around half the price...

    No real difference between car commute %s south and north, ex London. Bexleyheath is considered part of the London region.
    London commutes are surprisingly long too, I found.
    Almost as if low density driving might be a better way to live.

    Now look at home ownership rates?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    148grss said:

    I would be really interested in the % of the electorate who are likely to vote tactically at the next GE - and what information they plan to base their vote on (GE 2019 results, poll predictions, gut feelings, etc.). I think that understanding how much of the Labour / LD vote share is just a tactical vote to kick out the local Tory would be more useful at the moment at predicting majorities and their size than just the percentage figure.

    Interesting. It seems to me there is more than one account of what a tactical voter is in a GE.

    In the narrow sense a tactical voter is the one who votes for a party not their first choice because they wish to keep out another, third, party.

    In the wide sense it is everyone who when they vote, whatever their personal affiliations, in seats that can possibly change hands (so not Bootle, but at the moment is predicted to be a huge number of seats) will only vote for a candidate who can win. In most such seats that is two candidates.

    I think the first group is quite small, and the second group is many millions, including lots who hardly realise they are doing it. But that is only a guess.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,647

    .

    Eabhal said:

    theProle said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    @Eabhal , @BartholomewRoberts I wish to check the reality of south/north car ownership but...

    NE, NW, Yorks & Humber are obviously northern regions and SW, SE & London obviously southern.

    But I need to know how are you counting the East of England, East & West Midlands in your South/North discussion.

    Are either of you including Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland ?

    No, I mean England.

    I'd class East of England and East & West Midlands as Midlands, neither North nor South personally.
    Righty-ho.

    I'll check for 'control by density' too. I'll have to assume all households are the same size...

    No car/van %

    https://view.officeapps.live.com/op/view.aspx?src=https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1180877/nts9902.ods&amp;wdOrigin=BROWSELINK

    2022 North East 28% 2.7M Area: 8579 km2
    2022 North West 20% 7.3M Area 14108 km2
    2022 Yorkshire and the Humber 23% 5.5M 15405 km2

    2022 London 41% 9M 1572 km2
    2022 South East 15% 9.2M 19072 km2
    2022 South West 13% 5.6M 23836 km2

    North: 15.5M people, NO cars 22.4% 38092 km2 1 or more car 77.6%
    South: 23.8M people, NO cars 24.3% 44480 km2 1 or more car 75.7%

    Northern car use a bit higher than southern. I expect the difference is probably explained by income.
    Isn't the ownership rate a really poor proxy for use rates? My car does ~20k miles a year. My wife's car does about ~4k miles a year.

    I suspect that the big North - South divide isn't so much in the rates of ownership as in the milages driven. I'd expect to discover that many more people actually use their cars to commute every day in the North, as opposed cars just used for the odd run out to the shops and to take the kids to see the grandparents at the weekend.

    My maternal grandparents lived in Bexleyheath, had a car, and only really used it on the weekend - they caught the train to work. That's going to be much more typical in the South than the North.

    As an aside - my town has a good train service to Manchester. Thanks to perverse ticket pricing structures, most Manchester bound commuters drive parallel to the railway for 5 miles and then catch the train from a station slightly nearer Manchester, as the season tickets from there are around half the price...

    Commute distances are remarkably consistent across the country, including London.

    So it basically boils down to a lack of decent public transport provision if mileage is greater in the north (I assume so). If we also assume that public transport needs a certain level of population density to be sustainable, then we find huge variance across England. Birmingham and suburbs bad, Newcastle and suburbs good.
    No. It basically boils down to London's roads are shit, so Londoners are forced off them.

    Everyone else gets to drive, which is better.
    What's wrong with the roads in London?
  • theProletheProle Posts: 1,206
    Eabhal said:

    theProle said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    @Eabhal , @BartholomewRoberts I wish to check the reality of south/north car ownership but...

    NE, NW, Yorks & Humber are obviously northern regions and SW, SE & London obviously southern.

    But I need to know how are you counting the East of England, East & West Midlands in your South/North discussion.

    Are either of you including Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland ?

    No, I mean England.

    I'd class East of England and East & West Midlands as Midlands, neither North nor South personally.
    Righty-ho.

    I'll check for 'control by density' too. I'll have to assume all households are the same size...

    No car/van %

    https://view.officeapps.live.com/op/view.aspx?src=https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1180877/nts9902.ods&amp;wdOrigin=BROWSELINK

    2022 North East 28% 2.7M Area: 8579 km2
    2022 North West 20% 7.3M Area 14108 km2
    2022 Yorkshire and the Humber 23% 5.5M 15405 km2

    2022 London 41% 9M 1572 km2
    2022 South East 15% 9.2M 19072 km2
    2022 South West 13% 5.6M 23836 km2

    North: 15.5M people, NO cars 22.4% 38092 km2 1 or more car 77.6%
    South: 23.8M people, NO cars 24.3% 44480 km2 1 or more car 75.7%

    Northern car use a bit higher than southern. I expect the difference is probably explained by income.
    Isn't the ownership rate a really poor proxy for use rates? My car does ~20k miles a year. My wife's car does about ~4k miles a year.

    I suspect that the big North - South divide isn't so much in the rates of ownership as in the milages driven. I'd expect to discover that many more people actually use their cars to commute every day in the North, as opposed cars just used for the odd run out to the shops and to take the kids to see the grandparents at the weekend.

    My maternal grandparents lived in Bexleyheath, had a car, and only really used it on the weekend - they caught the train to work. That's going to be much more typical in the South than the North.

    As an aside - my town has a good train service to Manchester. Thanks to perverse ticket pricing structures, most Manchester bound commuters drive parallel to the railway for 5 miles and then catch the train from a station slightly nearer Manchester, as the season tickets from there are around half the price...

    Which would prove that public transport is rubbish up north. Commute distances are roughly the same.
    Or proves that the roads are so horrible down South that people have to use public transport.

    The truth is probably a bit of a mixture. If Manchester's suburbs had the quality of public transport that London has, probably more people would use it. At the same time, if the South had the largely useable roads we have in the North, far more people would drive instead of using public transport.

    FWIW, I commuted by train from Stockport to Macclesfield for a while around 2009. I had pretty much perfect circumstances - I lived 2 minutes walk from the station at one end, worked 5 mins walk at the other end. I eventually stopped and took to driving because the train cost about £7 a day, and it was actually cheaper (and no slower) to drive the journey in a 1970s diesel landrover.
  • Eabhal said:

    .

    Eabhal said:

    theProle said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    @Eabhal , @BartholomewRoberts I wish to check the reality of south/north car ownership but...

    NE, NW, Yorks & Humber are obviously northern regions and SW, SE & London obviously southern.

    But I need to know how are you counting the East of England, East & West Midlands in your South/North discussion.

    Are either of you including Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland ?

    No, I mean England.

    I'd class East of England and East & West Midlands as Midlands, neither North nor South personally.
    Righty-ho.

    I'll check for 'control by density' too. I'll have to assume all households are the same size...

    No car/van %

    https://view.officeapps.live.com/op/view.aspx?src=https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1180877/nts9902.ods&amp;wdOrigin=BROWSELINK

    2022 North East 28% 2.7M Area: 8579 km2
    2022 North West 20% 7.3M Area 14108 km2
    2022 Yorkshire and the Humber 23% 5.5M 15405 km2

    2022 London 41% 9M 1572 km2
    2022 South East 15% 9.2M 19072 km2
    2022 South West 13% 5.6M 23836 km2

    North: 15.5M people, NO cars 22.4% 38092 km2 1 or more car 77.6%
    South: 23.8M people, NO cars 24.3% 44480 km2 1 or more car 75.7%

    Northern car use a bit higher than southern. I expect the difference is probably explained by income.
    Isn't the ownership rate a really poor proxy for use rates? My car does ~20k miles a year. My wife's car does about ~4k miles a year.

    I suspect that the big North - South divide isn't so much in the rates of ownership as in the milages driven. I'd expect to discover that many more people actually use their cars to commute every day in the North, as opposed cars just used for the odd run out to the shops and to take the kids to see the grandparents at the weekend.

    My maternal grandparents lived in Bexleyheath, had a car, and only really used it on the weekend - they caught the train to work. That's going to be much more typical in the South than the North.

    As an aside - my town has a good train service to Manchester. Thanks to perverse ticket pricing structures, most Manchester bound commuters drive parallel to the railway for 5 miles and then catch the train from a station slightly nearer Manchester, as the season tickets from there are around half the price...

    Commute distances are remarkably consistent across the country, including London.

    So it basically boils down to a lack of decent public transport provision if mileage is greater in the north (I assume so). If we also assume that public transport needs a certain level of population density to be sustainable, then we find huge variance across England. Birmingham and suburbs bad, Newcastle and suburbs good.
    No. It basically boils down to London's roads are shit, so Londoners are forced off them.

    Everyone else gets to drive, which is better.
    What's wrong with the roads in London?
    Too many people would want to use them as the city is overcrowded.

    See also its appallingly low home ownership rates, the appallingly high housing costs etc - hence why Londoners like @CorrectHorseBattery3 are always moaning.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt

    Americans certainly do like cheese. If you go to a Walmart there will be aisles and aisles of it - but it will all be about 3 varieties - Jack, Monterey Jack, versions of cheddar. “Philadelphia” - the rest will be different forms of this with different shapes, processing and added bits

    What they don’t have is a sophisticated market for cheese nor a taste for runny, pungent, blue, or goaty cheese - ie all the best stuff

    But this used to be true of American beer. It used to be universally shit and gassy and pasteurised. Now they have one of the best beer cultures in the world and you can get excellent craft IPA anywhere in the country - a much better selection than most European countries (which will have 3 or 4 predictable beers)

    So they may wise up to cheese in a similar way

    The speed of that transition was also quite astounding. It felt like it went from only crap like Bud being available through the weird "Pabst Blue Ribbon is cool / hipster" phase, to craft IPA being everywhere from big brands like Sierra Nevada / Lagunitas (unfortunately owned by Heineken now) to regional ones in the matter of a few years...all the supermarkets are filled with massive aisles of choice on this front.
    Yes it was a bit like the British food revolution. Except even quicker. What took us 30 years they did in about 10-15 for beer
    People look at me like I’m mad when I say the Americans brew the best beer in the world. But it’s true, and not even close.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,647

    .

    Eabhal said:

    Pulpstar said:

    theProle said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    @Eabhal , @BartholomewRoberts I wish to check the reality of south/north car ownership but...

    NE, NW, Yorks & Humber are obviously northern regions and SW, SE & London obviously southern.

    But I need to know how are you counting the East of England, East & West Midlands in your South/North discussion.

    Are either of you including Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland ?

    No, I mean England.

    I'd class East of England and East & West Midlands as Midlands, neither North nor South personally.
    Righty-ho.

    I'll check for 'control by density' too. I'll have to assume all households are the same size...

    No car/van %

    https://view.officeapps.live.com/op/view.aspx?src=https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1180877/nts9902.ods&amp;wdOrigin=BROWSELINK

    2022 North East 28% 2.7M Area: 8579 km2
    2022 North West 20% 7.3M Area 14108 km2
    2022 Yorkshire and the Humber 23% 5.5M 15405 km2

    2022 London 41% 9M 1572 km2
    2022 South East 15% 9.2M 19072 km2
    2022 South West 13% 5.6M 23836 km2

    North: 15.5M people, NO cars 22.4% 38092 km2 1 or more car 77.6%
    South: 23.8M people, NO cars 24.3% 44480 km2 1 or more car 75.7%

    Northern car use a bit higher than southern. I expect the difference is probably explained by income.
    Isn't the ownership rate a really poor proxy for use rates? My car does ~20k miles a year. My wife's car does about ~4k miles a year.

    I suspect that the big North - South divide isn't so much in the rates of ownership as in the milages driven. I'd expect to discover that many more people actually use their cars to commute every day in the North, as opposed cars just used for the odd run out to the shops and to take the kids to see the grandparents at the weekend.

    My maternal grandparents lived in Bexleyheath, had a car, and only really used it on the weekend - they caught the train to work. That's going to be much more typical in the South than the North.

    As an aside - my town has a good train service to Manchester. Thanks to perverse ticket pricing structures, most Manchester bound commuters drive parallel to the railway for 5 miles and then catch the train from a station slightly nearer Manchester, as the season tickets from there are around half the price...

    No real difference between car commute %s south and north, ex London. Bexleyheath is considered part of the London region.
    London commutes are surprisingly long too, I found.
    Almost as if low density driving might be a better way to live.

    Now look at home ownership rates?
    You can own flats, not just rent them.
  • Scott_xP said:

    @BethRigby

    On
    @skynews
    now. Our sitdown with the PM
    - GE is "not what the country wants"
    - On HS2, PM is "not going to get forced into making premature decisions"
    - PM denies conf been chaotic & says people have "a spring in their step
    - Will you be PM after the next election? “Of course"

    Well, the polls close at ten and it takes a couple of hours for the results to be declared, I guess.

    (But honestly. What else was he going to say?)

    On topic, isn't Labour needing a 7% lead very sensitive to the tactical and Scottish situations?

    Both of those were almost as bad as they could be for the red team in 2019.
    "On HS2, PM is "not going to get forced into making premature decisions" "

    But of course it wont be "premature" when he announces it in 24 hours time.

    It might take 48 hours for him to announce it.

    Get to the chopper, get to London, then safely announce it away from Manchester. Because that makes everything better.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496

    On what the US does crap in supermarkets #1204243....bread....so much of it is like cake.

    See also:

    Milk in plastic bags
    Sticks of butter
    Milk in plastic bags ... Isn't that more a Canadian thing? Normally US its those mega sized gallon bottles of milk that unless you have an Amirsh sized family you won't get through before it goes off.
    Milk in plastic bags is common in the Southern hemisphere too. We had it in Australia and my wife had it in South Africa.

    Not sure why its not done here, although notably it is for commercial usage (eg Starbucks etc)
    Could it possibly be related to the fact that it is a liquid?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,188
    Eabhal said:

    .

    Eabhal said:

    Pulpstar said:

    theProle said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    @Eabhal , @BartholomewRoberts I wish to check the reality of south/north car ownership but...

    NE, NW, Yorks & Humber are obviously northern regions and SW, SE & London obviously southern.

    But I need to know how are you counting the East of England, East & West Midlands in your South/North discussion.

    Are either of you including Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland ?

    No, I mean England.

    I'd class East of England and East & West Midlands as Midlands, neither North nor South personally.
    Righty-ho.

    I'll check for 'control by density' too. I'll have to assume all households are the same size...

    No car/van %

    https://view.officeapps.live.com/op/view.aspx?src=https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1180877/nts9902.ods&amp;wdOrigin=BROWSELINK

    2022 North East 28% 2.7M Area: 8579 km2
    2022 North West 20% 7.3M Area 14108 km2
    2022 Yorkshire and the Humber 23% 5.5M 15405 km2

    2022 London 41% 9M 1572 km2
    2022 South East 15% 9.2M 19072 km2
    2022 South West 13% 5.6M 23836 km2

    North: 15.5M people, NO cars 22.4% 38092 km2 1 or more car 77.6%
    South: 23.8M people, NO cars 24.3% 44480 km2 1 or more car 75.7%

    Northern car use a bit higher than southern. I expect the difference is probably explained by income.
    Isn't the ownership rate a really poor proxy for use rates? My car does ~20k miles a year. My wife's car does about ~4k miles a year.

    I suspect that the big North - South divide isn't so much in the rates of ownership as in the milages driven. I'd expect to discover that many more people actually use their cars to commute every day in the North, as opposed cars just used for the odd run out to the shops and to take the kids to see the grandparents at the weekend.

    My maternal grandparents lived in Bexleyheath, had a car, and only really used it on the weekend - they caught the train to work. That's going to be much more typical in the South than the North.

    As an aside - my town has a good train service to Manchester. Thanks to perverse ticket pricing structures, most Manchester bound commuters drive parallel to the railway for 5 miles and then catch the train from a station slightly nearer Manchester, as the season tickets from there are around half the price...

    No real difference between car commute %s south and north, ex London. Bexleyheath is considered part of the London region.
    London commutes are surprisingly long too, I found.
    Almost as if low density driving might be a better way to live.

    Now look at home ownership rates?
    You can own flats, not just rent them.
    I thought flats were generally sold leasehold ;)
  • From a time when Brits were FAR less "sniffy" re: "American" cheese

    Cheese Arrives - 1941
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOSM2DXY25M
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860

    On what the US does crap in supermarkets #1204243....bread....so much of it is like cake.

    See also:

    Milk in plastic bags
    Sticks of butter
    Milk in plastic bags ... Isn't that more a Canadian thing? Normally US its those mega sized gallon bottles of milk that unless you have an Amirsh sized family you won't get through before it goes off.
    Milk in plastic bags is common in the Southern hemisphere too. We had it in Australia and my wife had it in South Africa.

    Not sure why its not done here, although notably it is for commercial usage (eg Starbucks etc)
    Probably because it just feels weird. Like cans of mineral water (though these are becoming a little more common).
  • Why, then, do MAGA politicians want to cut Ukraine off?

    The answer is, unfortunately, obvious. Whatever Republican hard-liners may say, they want Putin to win. They view the Putin regime’s cruelty and repression as admirable features that America should emulate. They support a wannabe dictator at home and are sympathetic to actual dictators abroad.

    So pay no attention to all those complaints about how much we’re spending in Ukraine. They aren’t justified by the actual cost of aid, and the people claiming to be worried about the cost don’t really care about the money. What they are, basically, is enemies of democracy, both abroad and at home.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/02/opinion/columnists/maga-republicans-ukraine.html

    It might not help that the actual cost of military aid is inflated by using as-new prices for old stock that would have been scrapped anyway, or at least, that is what is said.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    "Craft" = over-priced keg

    And what is it with Americans and IPA? Do they have a history of exporting ale to the sub-continent?

    https://aeronautbrewing.wordpress.com/2020/04/02/history-of-the-india-pale-ale/

    Basically it was people on the west coast of US that brought this type of beer back to life in the 70/80s, and incorporated varieties of hops that can grown abundantly there.

    Then NEIPA, is obviously New England's / East Coast version of this that came much more recently.
    One of the pivotal beers was Sam Adams Boston lager. Kicked off in 1984 in a microbrewery and probably started the American beer revolution

    It came from an ancient Cincinnati immigrant German brewery recipe, revived on the east coast. By 2000 these beers were all over the USA
  • Ghedebrav said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt

    Americans certainly do like cheese. If you go to a Walmart there will be aisles and aisles of it - but it will all be about 3 varieties - Jack, Monterey Jack, versions of cheddar. “Philadelphia” - the rest will be different forms of this with different shapes, processing and added bits

    What they don’t have is a sophisticated market for cheese nor a taste for runny, pungent, blue, or goaty cheese - ie all the best stuff

    But this used to be true of American beer. It used to be universally shit and gassy and pasteurised. Now they have one of the best beer cultures in the world and you can get excellent craft IPA anywhere in the country - a much better selection than most European countries (which will have 3 or 4 predictable beers)

    So they may wise up to cheese in a similar way

    The speed of that transition was also quite astounding. It felt like it went from only crap like Bud being available through the weird "Pabst Blue Ribbon is cool / hipster" phase, to craft IPA being everywhere from big brands like Sierra Nevada / Lagunitas (unfortunately owned by Heineken now) to regional ones in the matter of a few years...all the supermarkets are filled with massive aisles of choice on this front.
    Yes it was a bit like the British food revolution. Except even quicker. What took us 30 years they did in about 10-15 for beer
    People look at me like I’m mad when I say the Americans brew the best beer in the world. But it’s true, and not even close.
    With the domination of AB-InBev and Heineken, basically all the big traditional "brands" have become bland weaker offerings. We are seeing the same here with first the rise of BrewDog (who putting aside the controversial owner have gone downhill) but loads and loads of others have stepped up. A guess in part because its actually not that much more expensive now to drink beers from "craft" providers compared to an AB-InBev / Heineken brand.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,813
    The HS2 thing is getting ridiculous. We all know he’s cancelling it. Probably together with a toothless pledge to turbo-drive NPR and a number of local infrastructure pledges that likely sit in or near marginal constituencies. Just announce it already.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990

    Scott_xP said:

    @BethRigby

    On
    @skynews
    now. Our sitdown with the PM
    - GE is "not what the country wants"
    - On HS2, PM is "not going to get forced into making premature decisions"
    - PM denies conf been chaotic & says people have "a spring in their step
    - Will you be PM after the next election? “Of course"

    Well, the polls close at ten and it takes a couple of hours for the results to be declared, I guess.

    (But honestly. What else was he going to say?)

    On topic, isn't Labour needing a 7% lead very sensitive to the tactical and Scottish situations?

    Both of those were almost as bad as they could be for the red team in 2019.
    "On HS2, PM is "not going to get forced into making premature decisions" "

    But of course it wont be "premature" when he announces it in 24 hours time.

    @BestForBritain

    Also, at this stage, I'm not sure pretending that, no, genuinely, TWELVE YEARS since we committed to this project, we just need another COUPLE OF DAYS to get the decision right is a better look. ~AA
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,986

    Leon said:

    Fpt

    Americans certainly do like cheese. If you go to a Walmart there will be aisles and aisles of it - but it will all be about 3 varieties - Jack, Monterey Jack, versions of cheddar. “Philadelphia” - the rest will be different forms of this with different shapes, processing and added bits

    What they don’t have is a sophisticated market for cheese nor a taste for runny, pungent, blue, or goaty cheese - ie all the best stuff

    But this used to be true of American beer. It used to be universally shit and gassy and pasteurised. Now they have one of the best beer cultures in the world and you can get excellent craft IPA anywhere in the country - a much better selection than most European countries (which will have 3 or 4 predictable beers)

    So they may wise up to cheese in a similar way

    I think when it comes to food, it is like a lot of US, the two extremes with the "middle" not being great. You have your rich that shop at Whole Foods or regional chains like Publix, which are often a better form of Waitrose...then the other extreme of Walmart / Dollar Tree where they might not even carry any fresh food. The middle like Albertsons are quite shitty in comparison to what we have here.
    Our midmarket has traditionally been pretty decent. The US doesn't seem to have the equivalent of Sainsburys, or M&S, or even Tesco.

    Likewise on the continent, certainly in France and Spain (Germany a bit more of a fractured market plus Aldi and Lidl). And in France it's really difficult to discern which are the u or non-u chains. Much less of a class system in French supermarkets: Auchan, Leclerc, Carrefour, Intermarche: more variation between stores than between chains.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,968
    edited October 2023
    algarkirk said:

    On what the US does crap in supermarkets #1204243....bread....so much of it is like cake.

    See also:

    Milk in plastic bags
    Sticks of butter
    Milk in plastic bags ... Isn't that more a Canadian thing? Normally US its those mega sized gallon bottles of milk that unless you have an Amirsh sized family you won't get through before it goes off.
    Milk in plastic bags is common in the Southern hemisphere too. We had it in Australia and my wife had it in South Africa.

    Not sure why its not done here, although notably it is for commercial usage (eg Starbucks etc)
    Could it possibly be related to the fact that it is a liquid?
    What's that got to do with anything?

    In case you've never seen the style of plastic bag basically its a thin plastic cellophane (?) style bag. You'd typically have a solid plastic dispenser you'd keep in the door of your fridge and you could either put the bag into the dispenser, cutting a corner off the bag with a pair of scissors or empty the bag out into it. Then pour as normal from the dispenser like you would a bottle here, washing it out when done.

    Less plastic waste, although of course that style of plastic isn't recyclable and hard plastic is better, so not sure which is more environmentally friendly.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Ghedebrav said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt

    Americans certainly do like cheese. If you go to a Walmart there will be aisles and aisles of it - but it will all be about 3 varieties - Jack, Monterey Jack, versions of cheddar. “Philadelphia” - the rest will be different forms of this with different shapes, processing and added bits

    What they don’t have is a sophisticated market for cheese nor a taste for runny, pungent, blue, or goaty cheese - ie all the best stuff

    But this used to be true of American beer. It used to be universally shit and gassy and pasteurised. Now they have one of the best beer cultures in the world and you can get excellent craft IPA anywhere in the country - a much better selection than most European countries (which will have 3 or 4 predictable beers)

    So they may wise up to cheese in a similar way

    The speed of that transition was also quite astounding. It felt like it went from only crap like Bud being available through the weird "Pabst Blue Ribbon is cool / hipster" phase, to craft IPA being everywhere from big brands like Sierra Nevada / Lagunitas (unfortunately owned by Heineken now) to regional ones in the matter of a few years...all the supermarkets are filled with massive aisles of choice on this front.
    Yes it was a bit like the British food revolution. Except even quicker. What took us 30 years they did in about 10-15 for beer
    People look at me like I’m mad when I say the Americans brew the best beer in the world. But it’s true, and not even close.
    Yes I agree. For variety and innovation - and quality of production - American beer is now likely the best in the world. Happily Britain is following this path

    If you go to somewhere like France or Spain you will get three types of lager and that’s your lot. It will be pleasant cold lager but that’s it
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,647
    edited October 2023
    Pulpstar said:

    Eabhal said:

    .

    Eabhal said:

    Pulpstar said:

    theProle said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    @Eabhal , @BartholomewRoberts I wish to check the reality of south/north car ownership but...

    NE, NW, Yorks & Humber are obviously northern regions and SW, SE & London obviously southern.

    But I need to know how are you counting the East of England, East & West Midlands in your South/North discussion.

    Are either of you including Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland ?

    No, I mean England.

    I'd class East of England and East & West Midlands as Midlands, neither North nor South personally.
    Righty-ho.

    I'll check for 'control by density' too. I'll have to assume all households are the same size...

    No car/van %

    https://view.officeapps.live.com/op/view.aspx?src=https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1180877/nts9902.ods&amp;wdOrigin=BROWSELINK

    2022 North East 28% 2.7M Area: 8579 km2
    2022 North West 20% 7.3M Area 14108 km2
    2022 Yorkshire and the Humber 23% 5.5M 15405 km2

    2022 London 41% 9M 1572 km2
    2022 South East 15% 9.2M 19072 km2
    2022 South West 13% 5.6M 23836 km2

    North: 15.5M people, NO cars 22.4% 38092 km2 1 or more car 77.6%
    South: 23.8M people, NO cars 24.3% 44480 km2 1 or more car 75.7%

    Northern car use a bit higher than southern. I expect the difference is probably explained by income.
    Isn't the ownership rate a really poor proxy for use rates? My car does ~20k miles a year. My wife's car does about ~4k miles a year.

    I suspect that the big North - South divide isn't so much in the rates of ownership as in the milages driven. I'd expect to discover that many more people actually use their cars to commute every day in the North, as opposed cars just used for the odd run out to the shops and to take the kids to see the grandparents at the weekend.

    My maternal grandparents lived in Bexleyheath, had a car, and only really used it on the weekend - they caught the train to work. That's going to be much more typical in the South than the North.

    As an aside - my town has a good train service to Manchester. Thanks to perverse ticket pricing structures, most Manchester bound commuters drive parallel to the railway for 5 miles and then catch the train from a station slightly nearer Manchester, as the season tickets from there are around half the price...

    No real difference between car commute %s south and north, ex London. Bexleyheath is considered part of the London region.
    London commutes are surprisingly long too, I found.
    Almost as if low density driving might be a better way to live.

    Now look at home ownership rates?
    You can own flats, not just rent them.
    I thought flats were generally sold leasehold ;)
    They are, but in Scotland long leases got converted into heritable interest. I think.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    Leon said:

    On what the US does crap in supermarkets #1204243....bread....so much of it is like cake.

    Yes the bread is appalling. Likewise the charcuterie

    In fact most supermarket food in America is seriously bad compared to the west European equivalent. Even if you go to whole foods or a deli you can struggle (and you will pay $$$$$)

    The beer is great tho. And the wine is good
    If you're ever in Capitola, their bread is excellent:
    https://www.gaylesbakery.com/

    And their key lime pie to die for.

  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    @christopherhope

    ** EXCLUSIVE **

    Rishi Sunak does not rule out Nigel Farage joining the Tory Party, saying the party is a “broad church”
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    @RoryStewartUK

    I sometimes think this conference is simply designed to drive the last moderate Tories out. The Conservative Party was the traditional defender of small family farms and rural traditions. How is this globalised hormone-pumped rhetoric conservative?
  • Eabhal said:

    .

    Eabhal said:

    Pulpstar said:

    theProle said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    @Eabhal , @BartholomewRoberts I wish to check the reality of south/north car ownership but...

    NE, NW, Yorks & Humber are obviously northern regions and SW, SE & London obviously southern.

    But I need to know how are you counting the East of England, East & West Midlands in your South/North discussion.

    Are either of you including Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland ?

    No, I mean England.

    I'd class East of England and East & West Midlands as Midlands, neither North nor South personally.
    Righty-ho.

    I'll check for 'control by density' too. I'll have to assume all households are the same size...

    No car/van %

    https://view.officeapps.live.com/op/view.aspx?src=https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1180877/nts9902.ods&amp;wdOrigin=BROWSELINK

    2022 North East 28% 2.7M Area: 8579 km2
    2022 North West 20% 7.3M Area 14108 km2
    2022 Yorkshire and the Humber 23% 5.5M 15405 km2

    2022 London 41% 9M 1572 km2
    2022 South East 15% 9.2M 19072 km2
    2022 South West 13% 5.6M 23836 km2

    North: 15.5M people, NO cars 22.4% 38092 km2 1 or more car 77.6%
    South: 23.8M people, NO cars 24.3% 44480 km2 1 or more car 75.7%

    Northern car use a bit higher than southern. I expect the difference is probably explained by income.
    Isn't the ownership rate a really poor proxy for use rates? My car does ~20k miles a year. My wife's car does about ~4k miles a year.

    I suspect that the big North - South divide isn't so much in the rates of ownership as in the milages driven. I'd expect to discover that many more people actually use their cars to commute every day in the North, as opposed cars just used for the odd run out to the shops and to take the kids to see the grandparents at the weekend.

    My maternal grandparents lived in Bexleyheath, had a car, and only really used it on the weekend - they caught the train to work. That's going to be much more typical in the South than the North.

    As an aside - my town has a good train service to Manchester. Thanks to perverse ticket pricing structures, most Manchester bound commuters drive parallel to the railway for 5 miles and then catch the train from a station slightly nearer Manchester, as the season tickets from there are around half the price...

    No real difference between car commute %s south and north, ex London. Bexleyheath is considered part of the London region.
    London commutes are surprisingly long too, I found.
    Almost as if low density driving might be a better way to live.

    Now look at home ownership rates?
    You can own flats, not just rent them.
    Leasehold typically, but its much less common.

    Even counting leasehold 'ownership', the rates in overcrowded London are much worse than the rest of the country, just as their roads are.

    We need to invest in towns and cities across the country, give Londoners the opportunity to move elsewhere and find a home of their own as well as being able to enjoy the freedom of the open road the rest of the nation enjoys.
  • Leon said:

    "Craft" = over-priced keg

    And what is it with Americans and IPA? Do they have a history of exporting ale to the sub-continent?

    https://aeronautbrewing.wordpress.com/2020/04/02/history-of-the-india-pale-ale/

    Basically it was people on the west coast of US that brought this type of beer back to life in the 70/80s, and incorporated varieties of hops that can grown abundantly there.

    Then NEIPA, is obviously New England's / East Coast version of this that came much more recently.
    One of the pivotal beers was Sam Adams Boston lager. Kicked off in 1984 in a microbrewery and probably started the American beer revolution

    It came from an ancient Cincinnati immigrant German brewery recipe, revived on the east coast. By 2000 these beers were all over the USA
    Dogfish Head was another that led the charge on the East Coast.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,813
    Scott_xP said:

    @christopherhope

    ** EXCLUSIVE **

    Rishi Sunak does not rule out Nigel Farage joining the Tory Party, saying the party is a “broad church”

    Dear god.

    Farage LOTO after next election. Get your bets on.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,647

    The HS2 thing is getting ridiculous. We all know he’s cancelling it. Probably together with a toothless pledge to turbo-drive NPR and a number of local infrastructure pledges that likely sit in or near marginal constituencies. Just announce it already.

    The M56 will get an extra lane (just after Crossrail 2 gets finished).

    Congestion at Chester will continue to increase.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990

    @PhilipJCollins1

    What a wretchedly stupid party the Conservative party has become.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011
    Eabhal said:

    .

    Eabhal said:

    theProle said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    @Eabhal , @BartholomewRoberts I wish to check the reality of south/north car ownership but...

    NE, NW, Yorks & Humber are obviously northern regions and SW, SE & London obviously southern.

    But I need to know how are you counting the East of England, East & West Midlands in your South/North discussion.

    Are either of you including Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland ?

    No, I mean England.

    I'd class East of England and East & West Midlands as Midlands, neither North nor South personally.
    Righty-ho.

    I'll check for 'control by density' too. I'll have to assume all households are the same size...

    No car/van %

    https://view.officeapps.live.com/op/view.aspx?src=https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1180877/nts9902.ods&amp;wdOrigin=BROWSELINK

    2022 North East 28% 2.7M Area: 8579 km2
    2022 North West 20% 7.3M Area 14108 km2
    2022 Yorkshire and the Humber 23% 5.5M 15405 km2

    2022 London 41% 9M 1572 km2
    2022 South East 15% 9.2M 19072 km2
    2022 South West 13% 5.6M 23836 km2

    North: 15.5M people, NO cars 22.4% 38092 km2 1 or more car 77.6%
    South: 23.8M people, NO cars 24.3% 44480 km2 1 or more car 75.7%

    Northern car use a bit higher than southern. I expect the difference is probably explained by income.
    Isn't the ownership rate a really poor proxy for use rates? My car does ~20k miles a year. My wife's car does about ~4k miles a year.

    I suspect that the big North - South divide isn't so much in the rates of ownership as in the milages driven. I'd expect to discover that many more people actually use their cars to commute every day in the North, as opposed cars just used for the odd run out to the shops and to take the kids to see the grandparents at the weekend.

    My maternal grandparents lived in Bexleyheath, had a car, and only really used it on the weekend - they caught the train to work. That's going to be much more typical in the South than the North.

    As an aside - my town has a good train service to Manchester. Thanks to perverse ticket pricing structures, most Manchester bound commuters drive parallel to the railway for 5 miles and then catch the train from a station slightly nearer Manchester, as the season tickets from there are around half the price...

    Commute distances are remarkably consistent across the country, including London.

    So it basically boils down to a lack of decent public transport provision if mileage is greater in the north (I assume so). If we also assume that public transport needs a certain level of population density to be sustainable, then we find huge variance across England. Birmingham and suburbs bad, Newcastle and suburbs good.
    No. It basically boils down to London's roads are shit, so Londoners are forced off them.

    Everyone else gets to drive, which is better.
    What's wrong with the roads in London?
    Loads of buses getting in the way of good Tory-voting Motorists from the suburbs.
  • Scott_xP said:

    @christopherhope

    ** EXCLUSIVE **

    Rishi Sunak does not rule out Nigel Farage joining the Tory Party, saying the party is a “broad church”

    Bloody hell.

    It's going to be the big reveal tomorrow, isn't it?

    Stupid idea, but stupid is as stupid does...
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,986
    edited October 2023
    Leon said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt

    Americans certainly do like cheese. If you go to a Walmart there will be aisles and aisles of it - but it will all be about 3 varieties - Jack, Monterey Jack, versions of cheddar. “Philadelphia” - the rest will be different forms of this with different shapes, processing and added bits

    What they don’t have is a sophisticated market for cheese nor a taste for runny, pungent, blue, or goaty cheese - ie all the best stuff

    But this used to be true of American beer. It used to be universally shit and gassy and pasteurised. Now they have one of the best beer cultures in the world and you can get excellent craft IPA anywhere in the country - a much better selection than most European countries (which will have 3 or 4 predictable beers)

    So they may wise up to cheese in a similar way

    The speed of that transition was also quite astounding. It felt like it went from only crap like Bud being available through the weird "Pabst Blue Ribbon is cool / hipster" phase, to craft IPA being everywhere from big brands like Sierra Nevada / Lagunitas (unfortunately owned by Heineken now) to regional ones in the matter of a few years...all the supermarkets are filled with massive aisles of choice on this front.
    Yes it was a bit like the British food revolution. Except even quicker. What took us 30 years they did in about 10-15 for beer
    People look at me like I’m mad when I say the Americans brew the best beer in the world. But it’s true, and not even close.
    Yes I agree. For variety and innovation - and quality of production - American beer is now likely the best in the world. Happily Britain is following this path

    If you go to somewhere like France or Spain you will get three types of lager and that’s your lot. It will be pleasant cold lager but that’s it
    Copycat US-style craft breweries are popping up around France now. For example this is the local brewery in Cluny

    http://www.brasseriedecluny.fr/

    Most restaurants in the area serve their beers. Taste-wise they are very much standard US craft beer, though most tend to do one or two Belgian style strong varieties too.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,051
    148grss said:

    Why, then, do MAGA politicians want to cut Ukraine off?

    The answer is, unfortunately, obvious. Whatever Republican hard-liners may say, they want Putin to win. They view the Putin regime’s cruelty and repression as admirable features that America should emulate. They support a wannabe dictator at home and are sympathetic to actual dictators abroad.

    So pay no attention to all those complaints about how much we’re spending in Ukraine. They aren’t justified by the actual cost of aid, and the people claiming to be worried about the cost don’t really care about the money. What they are, basically, is enemies of democracy, both abroad and at home.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/02/opinion/columnists/maga-republicans-ukraine.html

    The GOP have been more positive about Russia and Putin since the Obama years - during the time where equal marriage was being secured, Russia was often presented as the real saviour of traditional living and the western way of life. Homophobia, high rates of religiosity, a feeling that men are the head of the family, etc. They look at Putin (and Orban) as the kind of leader they want because they are doing the kind of "anti woke" politics the right wing want.
    High rates of religiosity in Russia is not true: just another Republican fantasy. See https://news.gallup.com/poll/114211/alabamians-iranians-common.aspx Russians are less religious than Americans.
  • Scott_xP said:


    @PhilipJCollins1

    What a wretchedly stupid party the Conservative party has become.

    Swivel eyed loons some might say....
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    @DeltapollUK

    🚨🚨New Voting Intention🚨🚨
    Labour lead has grown to eighteen percentage points in the latest results from Deltapoll.
    Con 26% (-2)
    Lab 44% (-)
    Lib Dem 12% (+2)
    Other 18% (-)
    Fieldwork: 29 September - 2 October 2023
    Sample: 1,516 GB adults
    (Changes from 22nd-25th September 2023)
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926
    Scott_xP said:

    @DeltapollUK

    🚨🚨New Voting Intention🚨🚨
    Labour lead has grown to eighteen percentage points in the latest results from Deltapoll.
    Con 26% (-2)
    Lab 44% (-)
    Lib Dem 12% (+2)
    Other 18% (-)
    Fieldwork: 29 September - 2 October 2023
    Sample: 1,516 GB adults
    (Changes from 22nd-25th September 2023)

    Other on 18%?
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    edited October 2023
    Scott_xP said:


    @PhilipJCollins1

    What a wretchedly stupid party the Conservative party has become.

    They still have a very decent majority so we should, au moins, be grateful that they are too wretchedly stupid to do anything with it.

    Imagine the carnage GOPUK could wreak if they were disciplined and industrious.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    If only we had an anglosphere example of what life would be like if we built our cities for the car.

    Oh, we do...



  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011

    Ghedebrav said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt

    Americans certainly do like cheese. If you go to a Walmart there will be aisles and aisles of it - but it will all be about 3 varieties - Jack, Monterey Jack, versions of cheddar. “Philadelphia” - the rest will be different forms of this with different shapes, processing and added bits

    What they don’t have is a sophisticated market for cheese nor a taste for runny, pungent, blue, or goaty cheese - ie all the best stuff

    But this used to be true of American beer. It used to be universally shit and gassy and pasteurised. Now they have one of the best beer cultures in the world and you can get excellent craft IPA anywhere in the country - a much better selection than most European countries (which will have 3 or 4 predictable beers)

    So they may wise up to cheese in a similar way

    The speed of that transition was also quite astounding. It felt like it went from only crap like Bud being available through the weird "Pabst Blue Ribbon is cool / hipster" phase, to craft IPA being everywhere from big brands like Sierra Nevada / Lagunitas (unfortunately owned by Heineken now) to regional ones in the matter of a few years...all the supermarkets are filled with massive aisles of choice on this front.
    Yes it was a bit like the British food revolution. Except even quicker. What took us 30 years they did in about 10-15 for beer
    People look at me like I’m mad when I say the Americans brew the best beer in the world. But it’s true, and not even close.
    With the domination of AB-InBev and Heineken, basically all the big traditional "brands" have become bland weaker offerings. We are seeing the same here with first the rise of BrewDog (who putting aside the controversial owner have gone downhill) but loads and loads of others have stepped up. A guess in part because its actually not that much more expensive now to drink beers from "craft" providers compared to an AB-InBev / Heineken brand.
    And it costs less for a good pint of cask ale than for the gimmicky craft or the pish.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    edited October 2023
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt

    Americans certainly do like cheese. If you go to a Walmart there will be aisles and aisles of it - but it will all be about 3 varieties - Jack, Monterey Jack, versions of cheddar. “Philadelphia” - the rest will be different forms of this with different shapes, processing and added bits

    What they don’t have is a sophisticated market for cheese nor a taste for runny, pungent, blue, or goaty cheese - ie all the best stuff

    But this used to be true of American beer. It used to be universally shit and gassy and pasteurised. Now they have one of the best beer cultures in the world and you can get excellent craft IPA anywhere in the country - a much better selection than most European countries (which will have 3 or 4 predictable beers)

    So they may wise up to cheese in a similar way

    I think when it comes to food, it is like a lot of US, the two extremes with the "middle" not being great. You have your rich that shop at Whole Foods or regional chains like Publix, which are often a better form of Waitrose...then the other extreme of Walmart / Dollar Tree where they might not even carry any fresh food. The middle like Albertsons are quite shitty in comparison to what we have here.
    Our midmarket has traditionally been pretty decent. The US doesn't seem to have the equivalent of Sainsburys, or M&S, or even Tesco.

    Likewise on the continent, certainly in France and Spain (Germany a bit more of a fractured market plus Aldi and Lidl). And in France it's really difficult to discern which are the u or non-u chains. Much less of a class system in French supermarkets: Auchan, Leclerc, Carrefour, Intermarche: more variation between stores than between chains.
    More than pretty decent, I’d say

    If you travel the world like I do (and I always go into supermarkets coz I find then fascinating) you soon learn that mainstream Western European supermarkets - Sainsbury’s, Leclerc, M&S, Carrefour, Corte d’Ingles etc - are the best in the world for variety and freshness of produce
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,051
    Scott_xP said:

    @DeltapollUK

    🚨🚨New Voting Intention🚨🚨
    Labour lead has grown to eighteen percentage points in the latest results from Deltapoll.
    Con 26% (-2)
    Lab 44% (-)
    Lib Dem 12% (+2)
    Other 18% (-)
    Fieldwork: 29 September - 2 October 2023
    Sample: 1,516 GB adults
    (Changes from 22nd-25th September 2023)

    Parties are meant to get a polling boost during their conferences!
  • Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_xP said:


    @PhilipJCollins1

    What a wretchedly stupid party the Conservative party has become.

    They still have a very decent majority so we should, au moins, be grateful that they are too wretchedly stupid to do anything with it.

    Imagine the carnage GOPUK could wreak if they were disciplined and industrious.
    The mere thought of GOPUK is enough to make one throw up.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239

    Scott_xP said:

    @christopherhope

    ** EXCLUSIVE **

    Rishi Sunak does not rule out Nigel Farage joining the Tory Party, saying the party is a “broad church”

    Dear god.

    Farage LOTO after next election. Get your bets on.
    LibDem/Tory crossover incoming...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067

    Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_xP said:


    @PhilipJCollins1

    What a wretchedly stupid party the Conservative party has become.

    They still have a very decent majority so we should, au moins, be grateful that they are too wretchedly stupid to do anything with it.

    Imagine the carnage GOPUK could wreak if they were disciplined and industrious.
    The mere thought of GOPUK is enough to make one throw up.
    Onomatopoeic.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    148grss said:

    I would be really interested in the % of the electorate who are likely to vote tactically at the next GE - and what information they plan to base their vote on (GE 2019 results, poll predictions, gut feelings, etc.). I think that understanding how much of the Labour / LD vote share is just a tactical vote to kick out the local Tory would be more useful at the moment at predicting majorities and their size than just the percentage figure.

    Well, I’m a longshot tactical voter. The island here ought to be a LibDem target, now with two seats, but is no longer for reasons too detailed to recount. Labour finds itself the challenger in both seats. Getting me to vote Labour is a stretch, but I’d love to see the Tories lose here. Yet Labour has said nothing on a fairer voting system, next to nothing on re-aligning with the EU, and is jettisoning most of its more radical policies - like abolishing private school charitable status - that as a radical liberal I actually support. The candidates Labour is likely to put up locally are tribal Labour councillors who haven’t excelled in building cross-party relationships on the county council and, in the case of my expected Labour PPC, didnt even bother to turn up to the critical council meeting when the Tories were voted out of control.

    I’d love to see the Tories lose here but, nationally and locally, it is hard to see how Labour could have done less to win over my vote.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited October 2023
    Worst country in Europe for beer....

    My vote would be Portugal...I have been to Lisbon, Porto, Silver Coast, down the Atlantic coast and across the Algarve, and its seems all you can get is Super Bock, Sagres, Cristal, and they are all bloody awful.

    Its like if you went into a pub here and all you could buy was Carling.
  • If only we had an anglosphere example of what life would be like if we built our cities for the car.

    Oh, we do...



    How about British cities that facilitate equally walking, cycling and driving all in harmony?

    image

    That's a new junction in Preston near the city centre with free flowing bikes, cars and pedestrians after the A59 flyover was recently built to relieve the car traffic. The green FYI is cycling paths that are physically segregated from cars (as you can see by the yellow lines if its not clear) and pedestrians too.

    Of course our very own @Eabhal highlighted Preston as a city with high active travel, but quickly went quiet as a mouse when he realised why that is.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,375
    Scott_xP said:

    @DeltapollUK

    🚨🚨New Voting Intention🚨🚨
    Labour lead has grown to eighteen percentage points in the latest results from Deltapoll.
    Con 26% (-2)
    Lab 44% (-)
    Lib Dem 12% (+2)
    Other 18% (-)
    Fieldwork: 29 September - 2 October 2023
    Sample: 1,516 GB adults
    (Changes from 22nd-25th September 2023)

    Looks like the Tory % is closely tracking the final mileage of HS2.
  • Scott_xP said:

    @DeltapollUK

    🚨🚨New Voting Intention🚨🚨
    Labour lead has grown to eighteen percentage points in the latest results from Deltapoll.
    Con 26% (-2)
    Lab 44% (-)
    Lib Dem 12% (+2)
    Other 18% (-)
    Fieldwork: 29 September - 2 October 2023
    Sample: 1,516 GB adults
    (Changes from 22nd-25th September 2023)

    Parties are meant to get a polling boost during their conferences!
    It is Deltapoll, who are not ashamed to let their poll to poll variation show.

    Last time, they had a big boost to the Conservatives, and some people got awfully excited that the petrol car preservation stuff was cutting through.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926

    If only we had an anglosphere example of what life would be like if we built our cities for the car.

    Oh, we do...



    I'm sure you could find many drab images of towns and cities in the UK and Europe, too. You could also find really nice pictures of US cities, despite them being built for the car.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829

    Ghedebrav said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt

    Americans certainly do like cheese. If you go to a Walmart there will be aisles and aisles of it - but it will all be about 3 varieties - Jack, Monterey Jack, versions of cheddar. “Philadelphia” - the rest will be different forms of this with different shapes, processing and added bits

    What they don’t have is a sophisticated market for cheese nor a taste for runny, pungent, blue, or goaty cheese - ie all the best stuff

    But this used to be true of American beer. It used to be universally shit and gassy and pasteurised. Now they have one of the best beer cultures in the world and you can get excellent craft IPA anywhere in the country - a much better selection than most European countries (which will have 3 or 4 predictable beers)

    So they may wise up to cheese in a similar way

    The speed of that transition was also quite astounding. It felt like it went from only crap like Bud being available through the weird "Pabst Blue Ribbon is cool / hipster" phase, to craft IPA being everywhere from big brands like Sierra Nevada / Lagunitas (unfortunately owned by Heineken now) to regional ones in the matter of a few years...all the supermarkets are filled with massive aisles of choice on this front.
    Yes it was a bit like the British food revolution. Except even quicker. What took us 30 years they did in about 10-15 for beer
    People look at me like I’m mad when I say the Americans brew the best beer in the world. But it’s true, and not even close.
    With the domination of AB-InBev and Heineken, basically all the big traditional "brands" have become bland weaker offerings. We are seeing the same here with first the rise of BrewDog (who putting aside the controversial owner have gone downhill) but loads and loads of others have stepped up. A guess in part because its actually not that much more expensive now to drink beers from "craft" providers compared to an AB-InBev / Heineken brand.
    And it costs less for a good pint of cask ale than for the gimmicky craft or the pish.
    I get my beer delivered to the doorstep. Tried one of the internet specialists and their mixed boxes but got fed up of a non-trivial percentage of cans of IPA with pishheid flavourings such as haggis and (separately) Christmas Pudding that I went back to ordering direct from Black Isle - a decent straightforward range of six types and an addition of various optionals such as weissbier. Much safer.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,813
    edited October 2023

    Scott_xP said:

    @christopherhope

    ** EXCLUSIVE **

    Rishi Sunak does not rule out Nigel Farage joining the Tory Party, saying the party is a “broad church”

    Dear god.

    Farage LOTO after next election. Get your bets on.
    LibDem/Tory crossover incoming...
    Not convinced.

    I am cautiously optimistic that I live in a country where a simple majority of people will not vote to make Farage PM. But if I live in a country where 40% of the voting electorate can vote to make Corbyn PM then anything is possible.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860

    Ghedebrav said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt

    Americans certainly do like cheese. If you go to a Walmart there will be aisles and aisles of it - but it will all be about 3 varieties - Jack, Monterey Jack, versions of cheddar. “Philadelphia” - the rest will be different forms of this with different shapes, processing and added bits

    What they don’t have is a sophisticated market for cheese nor a taste for runny, pungent, blue, or goaty cheese - ie all the best stuff

    But this used to be true of American beer. It used to be universally shit and gassy and pasteurised. Now they have one of the best beer cultures in the world and you can get excellent craft IPA anywhere in the country - a much better selection than most European countries (which will have 3 or 4 predictable beers)

    So they may wise up to cheese in a similar way

    The speed of that transition was also quite astounding. It felt like it went from only crap like Bud being available through the weird "Pabst Blue Ribbon is cool / hipster" phase, to craft IPA being everywhere from big brands like Sierra Nevada / Lagunitas (unfortunately owned by Heineken now) to regional ones in the matter of a few years...all the supermarkets are filled with massive aisles of choice on this front.
    Yes it was a bit like the British food revolution. Except even quicker. What took us 30 years they did in about 10-15 for beer
    People look at me like I’m mad when I say the Americans brew the best beer in the world. But it’s true, and not even close.
    With the domination of AB-InBev and Heineken, basically all the big traditional "brands" have become bland weaker offerings. We are seeing the same here with first the rise of BrewDog (who putting aside the controversial owner have gone downhill) but loads and loads of others have stepped up. A guess in part because its actually not that much more expensive now to drink beers from "craft" providers compared to an AB-InBev / Heineken brand.
    Brewdog really have gone downhill. Punk - which is effectively a slightly tweaked rebrew of Thornbridge's Jaipur - is a pretty disgusting, chemical-tasting beer now, whereas the beer it ̶r̶i̶p̶p̶e̶d̶ ̶o̶f̶f̶* paid homage to remains one of the best in class (and well worth a trip to the brewery in Bakewell too). But it's also an institutionally stupid company; they blew their chance to be a genuinely excellent mainstream brewery, a la Sierra Nevada in the US.

    One thing that has helped in the US (and doesn't exist here, which is aiding the proliferation of ersatz 'craft beer' from the macros) is a legal industry definition of 'craft beer' linked to the volume produced and the independence of the company. So when e.g. AB InBev buy out Goose Island, they can no longer call it 'craft beer'.


    *That the Brewdog founders worked at Thornbridge before setting up on their own is entirely coincidental.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829

    Scott_xP said:

    @DeltapollUK

    🚨🚨New Voting Intention🚨🚨
    Labour lead has grown to eighteen percentage points in the latest results from Deltapoll.
    Con 26% (-2)
    Lab 44% (-)
    Lib Dem 12% (+2)
    Other 18% (-)
    Fieldwork: 29 September - 2 October 2023
    Sample: 1,516 GB adults
    (Changes from 22nd-25th September 2023)

    Parties are meant to get a polling boost during their conferences!
    Conference not finished yet ...
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    edited October 2023

    If only we had an anglosphere example of what life would be like if we built our cities for the car.

    Oh, we do...



    How about British cities that facilitate equally walking, cycling and driving all in harmony?

    image

    That's a new junction in Preston near the city centre with free flowing bikes, cars and pedestrians after the A59 flyover was recently built to relieve the car traffic. The green FYI is cycling paths that are physically segregated from cars (as you can see by the yellow lines if its not clear) and pedestrians too.

    Of course our very own @Eabhal highlighted Preston as a city with high active travel, but quickly went quiet as a mouse when he realised why that is.
    It’s also fucking hideous. But clearly aesthetics and taste don’t worry you as you live in a redbrick semi Barratt home new build near Warrington
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926
    Carnyx said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @DeltapollUK

    🚨🚨New Voting Intention🚨🚨
    Labour lead has grown to eighteen percentage points in the latest results from Deltapoll.
    Con 26% (-2)
    Lab 44% (-)
    Lib Dem 12% (+2)
    Other 18% (-)
    Fieldwork: 29 September - 2 October 2023
    Sample: 1,516 GB adults
    (Changes from 22nd-25th September 2023)

    Parties are meant to get a polling boost during their conferences!
    Conference not finished yet ...
    Also the fieldwork ended the Monday before last.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,632
    IanB2 said:

    148grss said:

    I would be really interested in the % of the electorate who are likely to vote tactically at the next GE - and what information they plan to base their vote on (GE 2019 results, poll predictions, gut feelings, etc.). I think that understanding how much of the Labour / LD vote share is just a tactical vote to kick out the local Tory would be more useful at the moment at predicting majorities and their size than just the percentage figure.

    Well, I’m a longshot tactical voter. The island here ought to be a LibDem target, now with two seats, but is no longer for reasons too detailed to recount. Labour finds itself the challenger in both seats. Getting me to vote Labour is a stretch, but I’d love to see the Tories lose here. Yet Labour has said nothing on a fairer voting system, next to nothing on re-aligning with the EU, and is jettisoning most of its more radical policies - like abolishing private school charitable status - that as a radical liberal I actually support. The candidates Labour is likely to put up locally are tribal Labour councillors who haven’t excelled in building cross-party relationships on the county council and, in the case of my expected Labour PPC, didnt even bother to turn up to the critical council meeting when the Tories were voted out of control.

    I’d love to see the Tories lose here but, nationally and locally, it is hard to see how Labour could have done less to win over my vote.
    Are you Wight East or West?

    I would think East the better Labour prospect.

    Greens may fancy a crack too
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368
    edited October 2023
    theProle said:

    Eabhal said:

    theProle said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    @Eabhal , @BartholomewRoberts I wish to check the reality of south/north car ownership but...

    NE, NW, Yorks & Humber are obviously northern regions and SW, SE & London obviously southern.

    But I need to know how are you counting the East of England, East & West Midlands in your South/North discussion.

    Are either of you including Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland ?

    No, I mean England.

    I'd class East of England and East & West Midlands as Midlands, neither North nor South personally.
    Righty-ho.

    I'll check for 'control by density' too. I'll have to assume all households are the same size...

    No car/van %

    https://view.officeapps.live.com/op/view.aspx?src=https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1180877/nts9902.ods&amp;wdOrigin=BROWSELINK

    2022 North East 28% 2.7M Area: 8579 km2
    2022 North West 20% 7.3M Area 14108 km2
    2022 Yorkshire and the Humber 23% 5.5M 15405 km2

    2022 London 41% 9M 1572 km2
    2022 South East 15% 9.2M 19072 km2
    2022 South West 13% 5.6M 23836 km2

    North: 15.5M people, NO cars 22.4% 38092 km2 1 or more car 77.6%
    South: 23.8M people, NO cars 24.3% 44480 km2 1 or more car 75.7%

    Northern car use a bit higher than southern. I expect the difference is probably explained by income.
    Isn't the ownership rate a really poor proxy for use rates? My car does ~20k miles a year. My wife's car does about ~4k miles a year.

    I suspect that the big North - South divide isn't so much in the rates of ownership as in the milages driven. I'd expect to discover that many more people actually use their cars to commute every day in the North, as opposed cars just used for the odd run out to the shops and to take the kids to see the grandparents at the weekend.

    My maternal grandparents lived in Bexleyheath, had a car, and only really used it on the weekend - they caught the train to work. That's going to be much more typical in the South than the North.

    As an aside - my town has a good train service to Manchester. Thanks to perverse ticket pricing structures, most Manchester bound commuters drive parallel to the railway for 5 miles and then catch the train from a station slightly nearer Manchester, as the season tickets from there are around half the price...

    Which would prove that public transport is rubbish up north. Commute distances are roughly the same.
    Or proves that the roads are so horrible down South that people have to use public transport.

    The truth is probably a bit of a mixture. If Manchester's suburbs had the quality of public transport that London has, probably more people would use it. At the same time, if the South had the largely useable roads we have in the North, far more people would drive instead of using public transport.

    FWIW, I commuted by train from Stockport to Macclesfield for a while around 2009. I had pretty much perfect circumstances - I lived 2 minutes walk from the station at one end, worked 5 mins walk at the other end. I eventually stopped and took to driving because the train cost about £7 a day, and it was actually cheaper (and no slower) to drive the journey in a 1970s diesel landrover.
    I would need to dig up the report but unless public transport is very regular and consistent to the point that a timetable is irrelevant people will eventually revert to personal transport..

    As I said I need the report but I think it was something like the frequency of the service needs to 12 minutes or less...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited October 2023
    Ghedebrav said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt

    Americans certainly do like cheese. If you go to a Walmart there will be aisles and aisles of it - but it will all be about 3 varieties - Jack, Monterey Jack, versions of cheddar. “Philadelphia” - the rest will be different forms of this with different shapes, processing and added bits

    What they don’t have is a sophisticated market for cheese nor a taste for runny, pungent, blue, or goaty cheese - ie all the best stuff

    But this used to be true of American beer. It used to be universally shit and gassy and pasteurised. Now they have one of the best beer cultures in the world and you can get excellent craft IPA anywhere in the country - a much better selection than most European countries (which will have 3 or 4 predictable beers)

    So they may wise up to cheese in a similar way

    The speed of that transition was also quite astounding. It felt like it went from only crap like Bud being available through the weird "Pabst Blue Ribbon is cool / hipster" phase, to craft IPA being everywhere from big brands like Sierra Nevada / Lagunitas (unfortunately owned by Heineken now) to regional ones in the matter of a few years...all the supermarkets are filled with massive aisles of choice on this front.
    Yes it was a bit like the British food revolution. Except even quicker. What took us 30 years they did in about 10-15 for beer
    People look at me like I’m mad when I say the Americans brew the best beer in the world. But it’s true, and not even close.
    With the domination of AB-InBev and Heineken, basically all the big traditional "brands" have become bland weaker offerings. We are seeing the same here with first the rise of BrewDog (who putting aside the controversial owner have gone downhill) but loads and loads of others have stepped up. A guess in part because its actually not that much more expensive now to drink beers from "craft" providers compared to an AB-InBev / Heineken brand.
    Brewdog really have gone downhill. Punk - which is effectively a slightly tweaked rebrew of Thornbridge's Jaipur - is a pretty disgusting, chemical-tasting beer now, whereas the beer it ̶r̶i̶p̶p̶e̶d̶ ̶o̶f̶f̶* paid homage to remains one of the best in class (and well worth a trip to the brewery in Bakewell too). But it's also an institutionally stupid company; they blew their chance to be a genuinely excellent mainstream brewery, a la Sierra Nevada in the US.

    One thing that has helped in the US (and doesn't exist here, which is aiding the proliferation of ersatz 'craft beer' from the macros) is a legal industry definition of 'craft beer' linked to the volume produced and the independence of the company. So when e.g. AB InBev buy out Goose Island, they can no longer call it 'craft beer'.


    *That the Brewdog founders worked at Thornbridge before setting up on their own is entirely coincidental.
    If I remember correctly the "craft brewery" classification was a Gordon Brown tax move to encourage the rise of these breweries, but the problem being becoming too successful you lose all the tax advantages and you still aren't big enough to compete with an AB-InBev production facility.

    I think Brewdog tried to do that leap, but in doing so have cost engineered their beers and of course knackered their supposed principled stance, ruining what actually got them started in the first place.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,624

    If only we had an anglosphere example of what life would be like if we built our cities for the car.

    Oh, we do...



    Milton Keynes is looking rough.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Worst country in Europe for beer....

    My vote would be Portugal...I have been to Lisbon, Porto, Silver Coast, down the Atlantic coast and across the Algarve, and its seems all you can get is Super Bock, Sagres, Cristal, and they are all bloody awful.

    Its like if you went into a pub here and all you could buy was Carling.

    Italy and Greece are pretty bad. But then they don’t really have beer cultures. They drink wine
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,375
    Leon said:

    If only we had an anglosphere example of what life would be like if we built our cities for the car.

    Oh, we do...



    How about British cities that facilitate equally walking, cycling and driving all in harmony?

    image

    That's a new junction in Preston near the city centre with free flowing bikes, cars and pedestrians after the A59 flyover was recently built to relieve the car traffic. The green FYI is cycling paths that are physically segregated from cars (as you can see by the yellow lines if its not clear) and pedestrians too.

    Of course our very own @Eabhal highlighted Preston as a city with high active travel, but quickly went quiet as a mouse when he realised why that is.
    It’s also fucking hideous. But clearly aesthetics and taste don’t worry you as you live in a redbrick semi Barratt home new build near Warrington
    Beat me to it. That picture is my vision of hell on earth.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829
    edited October 2023
    Leon said:

    If only we had an anglosphere example of what life would be like if we built our cities for the car.

    Oh, we do...



    How about British cities that facilitate equally walking, cycling and driving all in harmony?

    image

    That's a new junction in Preston near the city centre with free flowing bikes, cars and pedestrians after the A59 flyover was recently built to relieve the car traffic. The green FYI is cycling paths that are physically segregated from cars (as you can see by the yellow lines if its not clear) and pedestrians too.

    Of course our very own @Eabhal highlighted Preston as a city with high active travel, but quickly went quiet as a mouse when he realised why that is.
    It’s also fucking hideous. But clearly aesthetics and taste don’t worry you as you live in a redbrick semi Barratt home new build near Warrington
    Also makes you wonder why they didn't use orange and purple tarmac while at it. Red-green colour blindness, common in male "motorists".

    Edit: Actually - make that plain blindness.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,986
    RobD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @DeltapollUK

    🚨🚨New Voting Intention🚨🚨
    Labour lead has grown to eighteen percentage points in the latest results from Deltapoll.
    Con 26% (-2)
    Lab 44% (-)
    Lib Dem 12% (+2)
    Other 18% (-)
    Fieldwork: 29 September - 2 October 2023
    Sample: 1,516 GB adults
    (Changes from 22nd-25th September 2023)

    Other on 18%?
    Deltapoll really annoy me with their refusal to show the Green, Ref and SNP numbers. You have to go into the detailed tables. Which show:

    Green: 6
    Ref: 5 (but unprompted UKIP is 2!)
    SNP: 3
    PC: 1

    So LLG 62 vs RefCon 31

This discussion has been closed.