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Where do we even start? – politicalbetting.com

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  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,202

    glw said:

    Do people on this site really want all the fighting age men of ukraine to be slaughtered.

    No of course not. We want all the fighting age men of Russia to be slaughtered.
    I don't wish for anyone to be slaughtered, personally.
    Quite. The challenge is how to achieve that. It’s the eternal problem in wars. Pretty sure most Brits in WW2 didn’t want people slaughtered but there comes a point where you have to fight. And sometimes some people end up dead to save the lives of many more.
  • Options
    bigglesbiggles Posts: 4,341

    biggles said:

    glw said:

    Interesting contrast:

    Boris brought down over the party stupidity.

    Trump still going strong despite endless criminality and attempting to overthrown democracy.

    One of the reasons I dislike the Britain Trump or "he's just like Trump" rubbish is not because Boris deserves any credit, but because Trump is far worse than Boris and we shouldn't ever downplay it by comparing Trump with a more run-of-the-mill fool. If only Trump was merely a philandering, dishonest, lazy idiot, unfortunately he is far worse than that with a very dark authoritarian streak that is nothing like Boris.
    Yup. Like him or loath him, Boris is (well) within the bounds of normal democratic politics. Trump is not.
    Can the truth be in between? Johnson isn't as bad as Trump, but he is beyond democratic norms. His resignation statement goes beyond familiar democratic politics in its degree of mendacity and conspiratorial thinking.
    Can I introduce you to David Lloyd-George and Jeremy Thorpe?
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,780
    Scott_xP said:

    @PickardJE

    according to @YouGov snap poll

    46% of 2019 Conservative voters say Johnson was right to quit while only 33% say he was wrong

    Ouch - that one will sting.
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,407
    Miklosvar said:

    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    ping said:

    HYUFD said:

    That Starmer email. No mention of Mid Beds ...

    https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1667448668360695808

    As I said:
    Its been reported quite widely that Starmer and Davey get on very well and have conversations. So I assume that they have already Tehran Conferenced the coming byelections:
    Rutherglen: Labour
    Mid Beds: LibDems
    Uxbridge: Labour
    If the Tories pick a local councillor in nearly 10% Hindu Uxbridge they could even win it under Rishi.

    Would be amusing if Labour lost Uxbridge but the LDs won Mid Beds which I think is possible.

    Leaving Labour's only gain from the SNP not the Tories in Rutherglen
    I don’t know what is more sad.

    Your assumption that Hindus will vote, as a block, for a Hindu, or the fact that your assumption is probably correct.

    Our politics shouldn’t work like this.
    Leicester has the highest Hindu percentage of voters in the UK and the Tories had their best result in the local elections in the UK by far in Leicester in May gaining 17 seats from Labour. Hindus may only be less than 2% of the UK population but for them having one of their own as UK PM is as big as Obama being US President was for African Americans. Where the Hindu population is well above average there may even be a swing to the Conservatives while Rishi is PM

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2023/england/councils/E06000016
    And do you think the opposite could be true? Voters who see brown-skinned Hindu and change their vote from Conservative to something else? Given that Hindus are outnumbered in Uxbridge by Christians, atheists, and Muslims, do you think the PM's ethnicity and religion could count more against than for him?
    No.
    You've never met a racist? Lucky you.
    You desperately want all Conservatives or Conservative-inclined voters to be racist because this would conveniently fit your world view.

    Unfortunately for you, it's not true; your prejudices are just that.
    Not all, but do you think there might be a minority, perhaps 1-2% of the country, who won't vote for a non-white PM?
    The visceral dislike of Rishi Sunak on the right of the Tory Party is quite something. Does his ethnicity play into this in some way? I'd hope not but I think it probably does.
    My parents voted for Truss in the leadership contest because they felt Sunak uncommitted to this country. I don't think this so much racism as his Green card and Non-Dom wife, properties in California, and his comment that if it hadn't been for his political career he would have stayed in California.
    And a double stab in the back myth.
    Also, Rishi is not very tall which seems to trigger some people. And he wears American ties.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,472
    viewcode said:

    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    ping said:

    HYUFD said:

    That Starmer email. No mention of Mid Beds ...

    https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1667448668360695808

    As I said:
    Its been reported quite widely that Starmer and Davey get on very well and have conversations. So I assume that they have already Tehran Conferenced the coming byelections:
    Rutherglen: Labour
    Mid Beds: LibDems
    Uxbridge: Labour
    If the Tories pick a local councillor in nearly 10% Hindu Uxbridge they could even win it under Rishi.

    Would be amusing if Labour lost Uxbridge but the LDs won Mid Beds which I think is possible.

    Leaving Labour's only gain from the SNP not the Tories in Rutherglen
    I don’t know what is more sad.

    Your assumption that Hindus will vote, as a block, for a Hindu, or the fact that your assumption is probably correct.

    Our politics shouldn’t work like this.
    Leicester has the highest Hindu percentage of voters in the UK and the Tories had their best result in the local elections in the UK by far in Leicester in May gaining 17 seats from Labour. Hindus may only be less than 2% of the UK population but for them having one of their own as UK PM is as big as Obama being US President was for African Americans. Where the Hindu population is well above average there may even be a swing to the Conservatives while Rishi is PM

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2023/england/councils/E06000016
    And do you think the opposite could be true? Voters who see brown-skinned Hindu and change their vote from Conservative to something else? Given that Hindus are outnumbered in Uxbridge by Christians, atheists, and Muslims, do you think the PM's ethnicity and religion could count more against than for him?
    No.
    You've never met a racist? Lucky you.
    You desperately want all Conservatives or Conservative-inclined voters to be racist because this would conveniently fit your world view.

    Unfortunately for you, it's not true; your prejudices are just that.
    Not all, but do you think there might be a minority, perhaps 1-2% of the country, who won't vote for a non-white PM?
    The visceral dislike of Rishi Sunak on the right of the Tory Party is quite something. Does his ethnicity play into this in some way? I'd hope not but I think it probably does.
    My parents voted for Truss in the leadership contest because they felt Sunak uncommitted to this country. I don't think this so much racism as his Green card and Non-Dom wife, properties in California, and his comment that if it hadn't been for his political career he would have stayed in California.
    Perhaps we should double-down on not being committed to this country and draft in a political equivalent of Sven-Göran Eriksson to run the government?
    There's a challenge. Here y'go, PB: which politician from another country would you draft in to be PM? Double points if not American. Stephen Harper? Sanna Marin? Leo Varadkar?
    Emmanuel Macron or Michel Barnier.
  • Options
    Another one bits the dust, it's by-election fever...
  • Options
    CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761

    glw said:

    Do people on this site really want all the fighting age men of ukraine to be slaughtered.

    No of course not. We want all the fighting age men of Russia to be slaughtered.
    I don't wish for anyone to be slaughtered, personally.
    Quite. The challenge is how to achieve that. It’s the eternal problem in wars. Pretty sure most Brits in WW2 didn’t want people slaughtered but there comes a point where you have to fight. And sometimes some people end up dead to save the lives of many more.
    I agree with the principle. But the language used in the initial post I didn't, we should not be aiming to slaughter anyone, the point should be as few casualties as possible. It was a very American-feeling post, "slaughter the bastards", I strongly oppose that kind of thing.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,312

    I think qualifying PB contributors should be tagged with “I supported Boris”.

    Only BartyBobbins is open about it, so far as I can tell.

    [Sunil nervously puts his hand up] I voted Boris for London Mayor in 2008 and 2012. In fact, 2008 was the first time I voted Tory.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,472
    Nigel Adams stands down with immediate effect.
  • Options
    Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,543
    edited June 2023
    I've never thought Boris was remotely like Trump. Until last night. His lengthy, hyperbolic statement on his resignation was pure conspiracist nonsense, taking a swipe at a range of targets and evading any personal responsibility for his downfall. This included seeking to blame Parliament, Harman and the Privileges Committee, some Tory backbenchers, Sue Gray, Sunak, and, of course 'remainers' seeking to overturn Brexit. Utter nonsense.

    All that was missing was the capital letters.
  • Options
    CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761
    What on Earth is going on in the Tories? Even under Corbyn people were not resigning as MPs like this
  • Options
    bigglesbiggles Posts: 4,341
    viewcode said:

    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    ping said:

    HYUFD said:

    That Starmer email. No mention of Mid Beds ...

    https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1667448668360695808

    As I said:
    Its been reported quite widely that Starmer and Davey get on very well and have conversations. So I assume that they have already Tehran Conferenced the coming byelections:
    Rutherglen: Labour
    Mid Beds: LibDems
    Uxbridge: Labour
    If the Tories pick a local councillor in nearly 10% Hindu Uxbridge they could even win it under Rishi.

    Would be amusing if Labour lost Uxbridge but the LDs won Mid Beds which I think is possible.

    Leaving Labour's only gain from the SNP not the Tories in Rutherglen
    I don’t know what is more sad.

    Your assumption that Hindus will vote, as a block, for a Hindu, or the fact that your assumption is probably correct.

    Our politics shouldn’t work like this.
    Leicester has the highest Hindu percentage of voters in the UK and the Tories had their best result in the local elections in the UK by far in Leicester in May gaining 17 seats from Labour. Hindus may only be less than 2% of the UK population but for them having one of their own as UK PM is as big as Obama being US President was for African Americans. Where the Hindu population is well above average there may even be a swing to the Conservatives while Rishi is PM

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2023/england/councils/E06000016
    And do you think the opposite could be true? Voters who see brown-skinned Hindu and change their vote from Conservative to something else? Given that Hindus are outnumbered in Uxbridge by Christians, atheists, and Muslims, do you think the PM's ethnicity and religion could count more against than for him?
    No.
    You've never met a racist? Lucky you.
    You desperately want all Conservatives or Conservative-inclined voters to be racist because this would conveniently fit your world view.

    Unfortunately for you, it's not true; your prejudices are just that.
    Not all, but do you think there might be a minority, perhaps 1-2% of the country, who won't vote for a non-white PM?
    The visceral dislike of Rishi Sunak on the right of the Tory Party is quite something. Does his ethnicity play into this in some way? I'd hope not but I think it probably does.
    My parents voted for Truss in the leadership contest because they felt Sunak uncommitted to this country. I don't think this so much racism as his Green card and Non-Dom wife, properties in California, and his comment that if it hadn't been for his political career he would have stayed in California.
    Perhaps we should double-down on not being committed to this country and draft in a political equivalent of Sven-Göran Eriksson to run the government?
    There's a challenge. Here y'go, PB: which politician from another country would you draft in to be PM? Double points if not American. Stephen Harper? Sanna Marin? Leo Varadkar?
    Current? Mark Rutte.
  • Options
    Are we seriously getting minimum four by-elections this summer? Let joy be unconfined.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,472
    Last result
  • Options

    What on Earth is going on in the Tories? Even under Corbyn people were not resigning as MPs like this

    Adams was standing down at the next GE anyway, so I assume he's just being a drama queen.
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,002
    viewcode said:

    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    ping said:

    HYUFD said:

    That Starmer email. No mention of Mid Beds ...

    https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1667448668360695808

    As I said:
    Its been reported quite widely that Starmer and Davey get on very well and have conversations. So I assume that they have already Tehran Conferenced the coming byelections:
    Rutherglen: Labour
    Mid Beds: LibDems
    Uxbridge: Labour
    If the Tories pick a local councillor in nearly 10% Hindu Uxbridge they could even win it under Rishi.

    Would be amusing if Labour lost Uxbridge but the LDs won Mid Beds which I think is possible.

    Leaving Labour's only gain from the SNP not the Tories in Rutherglen
    I don’t know what is more sad.

    Your assumption that Hindus will vote, as a block, for a Hindu, or the fact that your assumption is probably correct.

    Our politics shouldn’t work like this.
    Leicester has the highest Hindu percentage of voters in the UK and the Tories had their best result in the local elections in the UK by far in Leicester in May gaining 17 seats from Labour. Hindus may only be less than 2% of the UK population but for them having one of their own as UK PM is as big as Obama being US President was for African Americans. Where the Hindu population is well above average there may even be a swing to the Conservatives while Rishi is PM

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2023/england/councils/E06000016
    And do you think the opposite could be true? Voters who see brown-skinned Hindu and change their vote from Conservative to something else? Given that Hindus are outnumbered in Uxbridge by Christians, atheists, and Muslims, do you think the PM's ethnicity and religion could count more against than for him?
    No.
    You've never met a racist? Lucky you.
    You desperately want all Conservatives or Conservative-inclined voters to be racist because this would conveniently fit your world view.

    Unfortunately for you, it's not true; your prejudices are just that.
    Not all, but do you think there might be a minority, perhaps 1-2% of the country, who won't vote for a non-white PM?
    The visceral dislike of Rishi Sunak on the right of the Tory Party is quite something. Does his ethnicity play into this in some way? I'd hope not but I think it probably does.
    My parents voted for Truss in the leadership contest because they felt Sunak uncommitted to this country. I don't think this so much racism as his Green card and Non-Dom wife, properties in California, and his comment that if it hadn't been for his political career he would have stayed in California.
    Perhaps we should double-down on not being committed to this country and draft in a political equivalent of Sven-Göran Eriksson to run the government?
    There's a challenge. Here y'go, PB: which politician from another country would you draft in to be PM? Double points if not American. Stephen Harper? Sanna Marin? Leo Varadkar?
    Julius Malema
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,312

    Nigel Adams stands down with immediate effect.

    Who?
  • Options
    bigglesbiggles Posts: 4,341

    Miklosvar said:

    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    ping said:

    HYUFD said:

    That Starmer email. No mention of Mid Beds ...

    https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1667448668360695808

    As I said:
    Its been reported quite widely that Starmer and Davey get on very well and have conversations. So I assume that they have already Tehran Conferenced the coming byelections:
    Rutherglen: Labour
    Mid Beds: LibDems
    Uxbridge: Labour
    If the Tories pick a local councillor in nearly 10% Hindu Uxbridge they could even win it under Rishi.

    Would be amusing if Labour lost Uxbridge but the LDs won Mid Beds which I think is possible.

    Leaving Labour's only gain from the SNP not the Tories in Rutherglen
    I don’t know what is more sad.

    Your assumption that Hindus will vote, as a block, for a Hindu, or the fact that your assumption is probably correct.

    Our politics shouldn’t work like this.
    Leicester has the highest Hindu percentage of voters in the UK and the Tories had their best result in the local elections in the UK by far in Leicester in May gaining 17 seats from Labour. Hindus may only be less than 2% of the UK population but for them having one of their own as UK PM is as big as Obama being US President was for African Americans. Where the Hindu population is well above average there may even be a swing to the Conservatives while Rishi is PM

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2023/england/councils/E06000016
    And do you think the opposite could be true? Voters who see brown-skinned Hindu and change their vote from Conservative to something else? Given that Hindus are outnumbered in Uxbridge by Christians, atheists, and Muslims, do you think the PM's ethnicity and religion could count more against than for him?
    No.
    You've never met a racist? Lucky you.
    You desperately want all Conservatives or Conservative-inclined voters to be racist because this would conveniently fit your world view.

    Unfortunately for you, it's not true; your prejudices are just that.
    Not all, but do you think there might be a minority, perhaps 1-2% of the country, who won't vote for a non-white PM?
    The visceral dislike of Rishi Sunak on the right of the Tory Party is quite something. Does his ethnicity play into this in some way? I'd hope not but I think it probably does.
    My parents voted for Truss in the leadership contest because they felt Sunak uncommitted to this country. I don't think this so much racism as his Green card and Non-Dom wife, properties in California, and his comment that if it hadn't been for his political career he would have stayed in California.
    And a double stab in the back myth.
    Also, Rishi is not very tall which seems to trigger some people. And he wears American ties.
    The latter is, of course, unforgivable. I hadn’t noticed it but shall now amend my voting intentions accordingly.
  • Options
    viewcode said:

    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    ping said:

    HYUFD said:

    That Starmer email. No mention of Mid Beds ...

    https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1667448668360695808

    As I said:
    Its been reported quite widely that Starmer and Davey get on very well and have conversations. So I assume that they have already Tehran Conferenced the coming byelections:
    Rutherglen: Labour
    Mid Beds: LibDems
    Uxbridge: Labour
    If the Tories pick a local councillor in nearly 10% Hindu Uxbridge they could even win it under Rishi.

    Would be amusing if Labour lost Uxbridge but the LDs won Mid Beds which I think is possible.

    Leaving Labour's only gain from the SNP not the Tories in Rutherglen
    I don’t know what is more sad.

    Your assumption that Hindus will vote, as a block, for a Hindu, or the fact that your assumption is probably correct.

    Our politics shouldn’t work like this.
    Leicester has the highest Hindu percentage of voters in the UK and the Tories had their best result in the local elections in the UK by far in Leicester in May gaining 17 seats from Labour. Hindus may only be less than 2% of the UK population but for them having one of their own as UK PM is as big as Obama being US President was for African Americans. Where the Hindu population is well above average there may even be a swing to the Conservatives while Rishi is PM

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2023/england/councils/E06000016
    And do you think the opposite could be true? Voters who see brown-skinned Hindu and change their vote from Conservative to something else? Given that Hindus are outnumbered in Uxbridge by Christians, atheists, and Muslims, do you think the PM's ethnicity and religion could count more against than for him?
    No.
    You've never met a racist? Lucky you.
    You desperately want all Conservatives or Conservative-inclined voters to be racist because this would conveniently fit your world view.

    Unfortunately for you, it's not true; your prejudices are just that.
    Not all, but do you think there might be a minority, perhaps 1-2% of the country, who won't vote for a non-white PM?
    The visceral dislike of Rishi Sunak on the right of the Tory Party is quite something. Does his ethnicity play into this in some way? I'd hope not but I think it probably does.
    My parents voted for Truss in the leadership contest because they felt Sunak uncommitted to this country. I don't think this so much racism as his Green card and Non-Dom wife, properties in California, and his comment that if it hadn't been for his political career he would have stayed in California.
    Perhaps we should double-down on not being committed to this country and draft in a political equivalent of Sven-Göran Eriksson to run the government?
    There's a challenge. Here y'go, PB: which politician from another country would you draft in to be PM? Double points if not American. Stephen Harper? Sanna Marin? Leo Varadkar?
    Gustavo Petro
  • Options
    bigglesbiggles Posts: 4,341

    Are we seriously getting minimum four by-elections this summer? Let joy be unconfined.

    We’re very close to Recess. I think they can be delayed well into the Autumn now if so desired. Depends what Rishi thinks. Lose some now and hope they get forgotten, or hope to have recovered some more my October and use some wins to boost the troops?
  • Options
    Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,543

    Nigel Adams stands down with immediate effect.

    That's a huge loss.
    Who is he?
  • Options
    bigglesbiggles Posts: 4,341

    viewcode said:

    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    ping said:

    HYUFD said:

    That Starmer email. No mention of Mid Beds ...

    https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1667448668360695808

    As I said:
    Its been reported quite widely that Starmer and Davey get on very well and have conversations. So I assume that they have already Tehran Conferenced the coming byelections:
    Rutherglen: Labour
    Mid Beds: LibDems
    Uxbridge: Labour
    If the Tories pick a local councillor in nearly 10% Hindu Uxbridge they could even win it under Rishi.

    Would be amusing if Labour lost Uxbridge but the LDs won Mid Beds which I think is possible.

    Leaving Labour's only gain from the SNP not the Tories in Rutherglen
    I don’t know what is more sad.

    Your assumption that Hindus will vote, as a block, for a Hindu, or the fact that your assumption is probably correct.

    Our politics shouldn’t work like this.
    Leicester has the highest Hindu percentage of voters in the UK and the Tories had their best result in the local elections in the UK by far in Leicester in May gaining 17 seats from Labour. Hindus may only be less than 2% of the UK population but for them having one of their own as UK PM is as big as Obama being US President was for African Americans. Where the Hindu population is well above average there may even be a swing to the Conservatives while Rishi is PM

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2023/england/councils/E06000016
    And do you think the opposite could be true? Voters who see brown-skinned Hindu and change their vote from Conservative to something else? Given that Hindus are outnumbered in Uxbridge by Christians, atheists, and Muslims, do you think the PM's ethnicity and religion could count more against than for him?
    No.
    You've never met a racist? Lucky you.
    You desperately want all Conservatives or Conservative-inclined voters to be racist because this would conveniently fit your world view.

    Unfortunately for you, it's not true; your prejudices are just that.
    Not all, but do you think there might be a minority, perhaps 1-2% of the country, who won't vote for a non-white PM?
    The visceral dislike of Rishi Sunak on the right of the Tory Party is quite something. Does his ethnicity play into this in some way? I'd hope not but I think it probably does.
    My parents voted for Truss in the leadership contest because they felt Sunak uncommitted to this country. I don't think this so much racism as his Green card and Non-Dom wife, properties in California, and his comment that if it hadn't been for his political career he would have stayed in California.
    Perhaps we should double-down on not being committed to this country and draft in a political equivalent of Sven-Göran Eriksson to run the government?
    There's a challenge. Here y'go, PB: which politician from another country would you draft in to be PM? Double points if not American. Stephen Harper? Sanna Marin? Leo Varadkar?
    Emmanuel Macron or Michel Barnier.
    I know you’re just trying to wind us up, but is there a vomit emoji on here?
  • Options
    A minimum of 4 by-elections this summer. At what point do you say “sod it” and call a General Election instead?
  • Options
    AramintaMoonbeamQCAramintaMoonbeamQC Posts: 3,600
    edited June 2023
    biggles said:

    Are we seriously getting minimum four by-elections this summer? Let joy be unconfined.

    We’re very close to Recess. I think they can be delayed well into the Autumn now if so desired. Depends what Rishi thinks. Lose some now and hope they get forgotten, or hope to have recovered some more my October and use some wins to boost the troops?
    I was hoping we'd get the Rutherglen one at least. I need the entertainment.

    Apparently Boris nommed him for a peerage, but HOLAC knocked it back, so he's flouncing.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,472
    biggles said:

    viewcode said:

    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    ping said:

    HYUFD said:

    That Starmer email. No mention of Mid Beds ...

    https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1667448668360695808

    As I said:
    Its been reported quite widely that Starmer and Davey get on very well and have conversations. So I assume that they have already Tehran Conferenced the coming byelections:
    Rutherglen: Labour
    Mid Beds: LibDems
    Uxbridge: Labour
    If the Tories pick a local councillor in nearly 10% Hindu Uxbridge they could even win it under Rishi.

    Would be amusing if Labour lost Uxbridge but the LDs won Mid Beds which I think is possible.

    Leaving Labour's only gain from the SNP not the Tories in Rutherglen
    I don’t know what is more sad.

    Your assumption that Hindus will vote, as a block, for a Hindu, or the fact that your assumption is probably correct.

    Our politics shouldn’t work like this.
    Leicester has the highest Hindu percentage of voters in the UK and the Tories had their best result in the local elections in the UK by far in Leicester in May gaining 17 seats from Labour. Hindus may only be less than 2% of the UK population but for them having one of their own as UK PM is as big as Obama being US President was for African Americans. Where the Hindu population is well above average there may even be a swing to the Conservatives while Rishi is PM

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2023/england/councils/E06000016
    And do you think the opposite could be true? Voters who see brown-skinned Hindu and change their vote from Conservative to something else? Given that Hindus are outnumbered in Uxbridge by Christians, atheists, and Muslims, do you think the PM's ethnicity and religion could count more against than for him?
    No.
    You've never met a racist? Lucky you.
    You desperately want all Conservatives or Conservative-inclined voters to be racist because this would conveniently fit your world view.

    Unfortunately for you, it's not true; your prejudices are just that.
    Not all, but do you think there might be a minority, perhaps 1-2% of the country, who won't vote for a non-white PM?
    The visceral dislike of Rishi Sunak on the right of the Tory Party is quite something. Does his ethnicity play into this in some way? I'd hope not but I think it probably does.
    My parents voted for Truss in the leadership contest because they felt Sunak uncommitted to this country. I don't think this so much racism as his Green card and Non-Dom wife, properties in California, and his comment that if it hadn't been for his political career he would have stayed in California.
    Perhaps we should double-down on not being committed to this country and draft in a political equivalent of Sven-Göran Eriksson to run the government?
    There's a challenge. Here y'go, PB: which politician from another country would you draft in to be PM? Double points if not American. Stephen Harper? Sanna Marin? Leo Varadkar?
    Emmanuel Macron or Michel Barnier.
    I know you’re just trying to wind us up, but is there a vomit emoji on here?
    I admire both.

    I really do,
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,407

    Last result

    A 20,000 majority might be enough to tempt Boris.
  • Options
    kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 3,955
    viewcode said:

    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    ping said:

    HYUFD said:

    That Starmer email. No mention of Mid Beds ...

    https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1667448668360695808

    As I said:
    Its been reported quite widely that Starmer and Davey get on very well and have conversations. So I assume that they have already Tehran Conferenced the coming byelections:
    Rutherglen: Labour
    Mid Beds: LibDems
    Uxbridge: Labour
    If the Tories pick a local councillor in nearly 10% Hindu Uxbridge they could even win it under Rishi.

    Would be amusing if Labour lost Uxbridge but the LDs won Mid Beds which I think is possible.

    Leaving Labour's only gain from the SNP not the Tories in Rutherglen
    I don’t know what is more sad.

    Your assumption that Hindus will vote, as a block, for a Hindu, or the fact that your assumption is probably correct.

    Our politics shouldn’t work like this.
    Leicester has the highest Hindu percentage of voters in the UK and the Tories had their best result in the local elections in the UK by far in Leicester in May gaining 17 seats from Labour. Hindus may only be less than 2% of the UK population but for them having one of their own as UK PM is as big as Obama being US President was for African Americans. Where the Hindu population is well above average there may even be a swing to the Conservatives while Rishi is PM

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2023/england/councils/E06000016
    And do you think the opposite could be true? Voters who see brown-skinned Hindu and change their vote from Conservative to something else? Given that Hindus are outnumbered in Uxbridge by Christians, atheists, and Muslims, do you think the PM's ethnicity and religion could count more against than for him?
    No.
    You've never met a racist? Lucky you.
    You desperately want all Conservatives or Conservative-inclined voters to be racist because this would conveniently fit your world view.

    Unfortunately for you, it's not true; your prejudices are just that.
    Not all, but do you think there might be a minority, perhaps 1-2% of the country, who won't vote for a non-white PM?
    The visceral dislike of Rishi Sunak on the right of the Tory Party is quite something. Does his ethnicity play into this in some way? I'd hope not but I think it probably does.
    My parents voted for Truss in the leadership contest because they felt Sunak uncommitted to this country. I don't think this so much racism as his Green card and Non-Dom wife, properties in California, and his comment that if it hadn't been for his political career he would have stayed in California.
    Perhaps we should double-down on not being committed to this country and draft in a political equivalent of Sven-Göran Eriksson to run the government?
    There's a challenge. Here y'go, PB: which politician from another country would you draft in to be PM? Double points if not American. Stephen Harper? Sanna Marin? Leo Varadkar?
    Nayib Bukele. Detested in the western press, but has a 90% approval rating in his home country...
  • Options
    MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855
    biggles said:

    viewcode said:

    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    ping said:

    HYUFD said:

    That Starmer email. No mention of Mid Beds ...

    https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1667448668360695808

    As I said:
    Its been reported quite widely that Starmer and Davey get on very well and have conversations. So I assume that they have already Tehran Conferenced the coming byelections:
    Rutherglen: Labour
    Mid Beds: LibDems
    Uxbridge: Labour
    If the Tories pick a local councillor in nearly 10% Hindu Uxbridge they could even win it under Rishi.

    Would be amusing if Labour lost Uxbridge but the LDs won Mid Beds which I think is possible.

    Leaving Labour's only gain from the SNP not the Tories in Rutherglen
    I don’t know what is more sad.

    Your assumption that Hindus will vote, as a block, for a Hindu, or the fact that your assumption is probably correct.

    Our politics shouldn’t work like this.
    Leicester has the highest Hindu percentage of voters in the UK and the Tories had their best result in the local elections in the UK by far in Leicester in May gaining 17 seats from Labour. Hindus may only be less than 2% of the UK population but for them having one of their own as UK PM is as big as Obama being US President was for African Americans. Where the Hindu population is well above average there may even be a swing to the Conservatives while Rishi is PM

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2023/england/councils/E06000016
    And do you think the opposite could be true? Voters who see brown-skinned Hindu and change their vote from Conservative to something else? Given that Hindus are outnumbered in Uxbridge by Christians, atheists, and Muslims, do you think the PM's ethnicity and religion could count more against than for him?
    No.
    You've never met a racist? Lucky you.
    You desperately want all Conservatives or Conservative-inclined voters to be racist because this would conveniently fit your world view.

    Unfortunately for you, it's not true; your prejudices are just that.
    Not all, but do you think there might be a minority, perhaps 1-2% of the country, who won't vote for a non-white PM?
    The visceral dislike of Rishi Sunak on the right of the Tory Party is quite something. Does his ethnicity play into this in some way? I'd hope not but I think it probably does.
    My parents voted for Truss in the leadership contest because they felt Sunak uncommitted to this country. I don't think this so much racism as his Green card and Non-Dom wife, properties in California, and his comment that if it hadn't been for his political career he would have stayed in California.
    Perhaps we should double-down on not being committed to this country and draft in a political equivalent of Sven-Göran Eriksson to run the government?
    There's a challenge. Here y'go, PB: which politician from another country would you draft in to be PM? Double points if not American. Stephen Harper? Sanna Marin? Leo Varadkar?
    Emmanuel Macron or Michel Barnier.
    I know you’re just trying to wind us up, but is there a vomit emoji on here?
    Test 🤮
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,202
    Off topic - WTF are the Aussies playing at? Past the world record chase now. Still need to take 10 wickets. Madness. Declare and get bowling.

    I have no idea who will win the Ashes, but it’s clearly going to be a clash of styles.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,358

    Sunak’s government is now the lamest of ducks.

    Wrong again.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,472

    What on Earth is going on in the Tories? Even under Corbyn people were not resigning as MPs like this

    Nah they formed new parties under Jez.
  • Options
    CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761
    Matthew Goodwin continues to be a twat.

    We must move on from Johnson he says, he was Johnson's chief cheerleader from 2019 to 2022!
  • Options
    CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761

    What on Earth is going on in the Tories? Even under Corbyn people were not resigning as MPs like this

    Nah they formed new parties under Jez.
    They did not resign as MPs.
  • Options

    Last result

    A 20,000 majority might be enough to tempt Boris.
    On behalf of the entire north of England - we don't want him.
  • Options
    pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,132

    Last result

    A 20,000 majority might be enough to tempt Boris.
    Johnson is finished.

    Only question is who beats the Tory. Looks like Labour in this instance.
  • Options
    glwglw Posts: 9,549

    glw said:

    Do people on this site really want all the fighting age men of ukraine to be slaughtered.

    No of course not. We want all the fighting age men of Russia to be slaughtered.
    I don't wish for anyone to be slaughtered, personally.
    Quite. The challenge is how to achieve that. It’s the eternal problem in wars. Pretty sure most Brits in WW2 didn’t want people slaughtered but there comes a point where you have to fight. And sometimes some people end up dead to save the lives of many more.
    I agree with the principle. But the language used in the initial post I didn't, we should not be aiming to slaughter anyone, the point should be as few casualties as possible. It was a very American-feeling post, "slaughter the bastards", I strongly oppose that kind of thing.
    If Ukraine doesn't inflict a lot of casualties they won't drive Russia from Ukraine, as without a lot of casualties Putin will too easily replenish them. Ukraine can't afford a stalemate, they need to go as hard and as fast as possible and that does mean killing a lot of Russian soldiers.
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    On topic I think Chris Bryant is indulging in wishful thinking. As I posted last night, the HoC library is explict that an MP, even one who is expelled from Parliament, can immediately stand again. One MP was expelled 3 times (for different offences) and stood and won again on each occasion.

    I would like to see Johnson simply disappear but that isn't going to happen and I can easily see him making a comeback some time in the future as the supposed 'saviour' of the Tory party.

    Isn't the point that is being made that if he stood again and was elected as an MP he'd immediately be suspended for 10 days and liable to a local petition for a recall which would immediately lead to another election.
    I suspect he would be able to claim that, having been outside of Parliament for much longer than the 10 day suspension he had already effectively been through the recall process. The electors would have chosen him in full knowledge of his verdict. I don't want to see him back but I think he would win any argument on that basis. All the more so if it is a couple of years down the line.

    Remember he sees himself as Churchill so I do think he is playing the long game here. He will disassociate himself from the forthcoming Tory GE defeat and then watch Starmer struggle to make any real impact on the problems the country is facing. Then a nice safe seat for the King over the Water to slip into.

    Except Boris will be 64 by the election after next, and probably not a fit sprightly 64 at that. He'll also be bald as a coot, which matters for Boris. The hair is his brand.

    I'm sure returning from the wilderness is the story he will tell himself. I'm sure he will collect some deluded followers that way. But it is a delusion, and one that will harm the Conservatives until it finally dies.

    Parliament and the public had better blooming well see that report, though.
    When you get older losing your hair
    Many years from now
    Will you still impregnate other people's wives?
    Spreading Covid ruining lives?

    If your barbecue got out of hand
    Sick upon the floor
    Will we still need you, will we still feed you
    When you're sixty-four
    I read the news today, oh boy
    About a thicko man who quit his job
    And though the news was rather fab
    Well, I just had to laugh
    I saw the photograph
    He blew his beans in Princess Nut
    He didn't notice she's a lunatic
    A crowd of people stood and stared
    They'd seen his face before
    Nobody was really sure if he was selling Channel Four

    I saw a film today, oh boy
    The English voters chose the Brexit path
    A crowd of people believed me
    But I just had to cough
    I lied my head off

    Woke up, fell out of bed
    Dragged a broom across my head
    Found my way downstairs and drank a rum
    And looking dumb, I noticed I was late
    Found my coat and grabbed my hat
    Made cabinet in seconds flat
    Found my way upstairs and had a wank
    And somebody spoke and I went into a dream

    I read the news today, oh boy
    Four thousand dead in some old people's home
    And though the dead were rather old
    They had to count them all
    Now they know how many dead it takes to fill the Albert Hall
    I'm not sure I'd be rolling around laughing even if I were familiar with the source material.
    I suspect you aren't my target audience. I would be disturbed if anyone thought you were.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,358
    edited June 2023
    Edited
  • Options
    bigglesbiggles Posts: 4,341

    biggles said:

    Are we seriously getting minimum four by-elections this summer? Let joy be unconfined.

    We’re very close to Recess. I think they can be delayed well into the Autumn now if so desired. Depends what Rishi thinks. Lose some now and hope they get forgotten, or hope to have recovered some more my October and use some wins to boost the troops?
    I was hoping we'd get the Rutherglen one at least. I need the entertainment.

    Apparently Boris nommed him for a peerage, but HOLAC knocked it back, so he's flouncing.
    Him and Dorries? I mean, this process is handily removing a number of problem cases for the party in opposition, and will help them bring fresh blood into safe seats. Unless Boris gets one.
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891

    Nigel Adams stands down with immediate effect.

    Who?
    Who and why?
  • Options
    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,241
    Nigel Wotzit says he has stepped down because his association have just selected an "excellent parliamentary candidate". Yes - who expected to have some time to do summer tea parties and sheep tupping as an introduction before the campaigning started.

    No MP who is standing down immediately quits because the new candidate has been chosen. So what is he up to?
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,339

    Sean_F said:

    https://acoup.blog/2023/06/09/fireside-friday-june-9-2023/

    @Cicero and others. I enjoyed this piece from Brett Devereaux, analysing why Russian military performance has been so poor (and the same may turn out to be true of other vaunted militaries). I also take his point that (counter-intuitively, WMD, especially nukes, save lives.)

    As a counterbalance read this from foreignaffairs.com an unwinnable war.

    https://twitter.com/Chooselife63/status/1667165236518895616?s=20
    That's a good article (if interminably long) - essentially TLDR: Ukraine and Russia will be mutually hostile indefinitely, and no military outcome will change that, Ukraine may well shift the current frontline but is unlikely to win decisively; Russia cannot win decisively at all without nukes and maybe not even with nukes; therefore a parallel diplomatic effort should be made to achieve an indefinite ceasefire coupled with an unambiguous US guarantee to Ukraine in the event of further fighting.

    For those interested in the military detail, Tom Cooper (pro-Ukraine but tries to be factual) is interesting:

    https://xxtomcooperxx.substack.com/p/ukraine-war-10-june-2023-minefields?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email
    No one has a problem with a negotiated settlement Nick. As long as that means Ukraine (all of Ukraine including Crimea and Donbass) gets to decide for themselves as a country who they align with. Joining NATO and the EU as they see fit and Russia has no input at all. That should be the absolute minimum.
    One of the problems is populations don’t stand still. If something has been seized and held for a while, or been a miserable war zone, can there be an approved UN backed negotiated settlement based on votes in the region that doesn’t rubber stamp original evil intent and let them get away with it?

    For example, if you had a vote exactly here in land being fought over today at one point of history, the Cossacks would have won - I believe they were Cossacks, not Russian, Polish, Ukrainian or Lithuanian. But there is nothing in this world today, certainly not the United Nations, who at any point in history would have accepted a Cossack win.
    Yes, that's a very familiar problem from Palestine. I think you have to draw a line somewhere and say that if people have moved (whatever the reason, including ethnic cleansing) they will eventually have more of a stake where they've moved to - certainly after a generation (you don't get a vote on the future of where your grandfather used to live). Right now, though, I think that any regional polling a la Slesvig=Holstein would need to include both current residents and people who have fled. Ultimately the question shouldn't be "where does national pride say the border should be?" but "what do people there actually want?"

    One of the reasons why the war was idiotic is that there are certainly parts of Ukraine where Russia would have had a good shot at a majority vote. Now? Doubtful.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,780

    Last result

    Ok, on this one the gap between LD and Lab probably is large enough to ensure the latter get lead contender status.
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    Just heard Any Questions. Can't remember a more dislikable panel
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,358
    It the moonhowlers self-select and quit it's no skin off my rosy nose.

    They don't reliably vote for or support the Government in Parliament anyway, and provided sensible candidates are selected (big if) there's a chance of swapping them out with someone sane.
  • Options
    pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,132

    Nigel Wotzit says he has stepped down because his association have just selected an "excellent parliamentary candidate". Yes - who expected to have some time to do summer tea parties and sheep tupping as an introduction before the campaigning started.

    No MP who is standing down immediately quits because the new candidate has been chosen. So what is he up to?

    As already suggested downthread, it could be a flounce a la Dorries. I believe he's another one whom Johnson nominated for a peerage that was blocked.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,787
    edited June 2023

    Off topic - WTF are the Aussies playing at? Past the world record chase now. Still need to take 10 wickets. Madness. Declare and get bowling.

    I have no idea who will win the Ashes, but it’s clearly going to be a clash of styles.

    What do you mean, off topic? The Johnsonian flouncing etc discussion is just to fill in the gaps between overs and inningses, it seems more like on PB these days.
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    viewcode said:

    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    ping said:

    HYUFD said:

    That Starmer email. No mention of Mid Beds ...

    https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1667448668360695808

    As I said:
    Its been reported quite widely that Starmer and Davey get on very well and have conversations. So I assume that they have already Tehran Conferenced the coming byelections:
    Rutherglen: Labour
    Mid Beds: LibDems
    Uxbridge: Labour
    If the Tories pick a local councillor in nearly 10% Hindu Uxbridge they could even win it under Rishi.

    Would be amusing if Labour lost Uxbridge but the LDs won Mid Beds which I think is possible.

    Leaving Labour's only gain from the SNP not the Tories in Rutherglen
    I don’t know what is more sad.

    Your assumption that Hindus will vote, as a block, for a Hindu, or the fact that your assumption is probably correct.

    Our politics shouldn’t work like this.
    Leicester has the highest Hindu percentage of voters in the UK and the Tories had their best result in the local elections in the UK by far in Leicester in May gaining 17 seats from Labour. Hindus may only be less than 2% of the UK population but for them having one of their own as UK PM is as big as Obama being US President was for African Americans. Where the Hindu population is well above average there may even be a swing to the Conservatives while Rishi is PM

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2023/england/councils/E06000016
    And do you think the opposite could be true? Voters who see brown-skinned Hindu and change their vote from Conservative to something else? Given that Hindus are outnumbered in Uxbridge by Christians, atheists, and Muslims, do you think the PM's ethnicity and religion could count more against than for him?
    No.
    You've never met a racist? Lucky you.
    You desperately want all Conservatives or Conservative-inclined voters to be racist because this would conveniently fit your world view.

    Unfortunately for you, it's not true; your prejudices are just that.
    Not all, but do you think there might be a minority, perhaps 1-2% of the country, who won't vote for a non-white PM?
    The visceral dislike of Rishi Sunak on the right of the Tory Party is quite something. Does his ethnicity play into this in some way? I'd hope not but I think it probably does.
    My parents voted for Truss in the leadership contest because they felt Sunak uncommitted to this country. I don't think this so much racism as his Green card and Non-Dom wife, properties in California, and his comment that if it hadn't been for his political career he would have stayed in California.
    Perhaps we should double-down on not being committed to this country and draft in a political equivalent of Sven-Göran Eriksson to run the government?
    There's a challenge. Here y'go, PB: which politician from another country would you draft in to be PM? Double points if not American. Stephen Harper? Sanna Marin? Leo Varadkar?
    Macron
  • Options
    londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,196
    kle4 said:

    Last result

    Ok, on this one the gap between LD and Lab probably is large enough to ensure the latter get lead contender status.
    LAB have won in Selby previously and are clearly the main challengers.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,787
    kle4 said:

    Last result

    Ok, on this one the gap between LD and Lab probably is large enough to ensure the latter get lead contender status.
    Shame about the Yorkshire Party though.
  • Options
    Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,305

    Nigel Adams stands down with immediate effect.

    Rishi could do worse than simply refuse to field a Tory candidate in any of these Boris by-lections. He probably won't hold the seats anyway, so that would remove the bigger embarrassment of actually losing them. It would also put the focus on Boris and his cronies' arsing about. Didn't Labour take this approach with DD? Why not?
  • Options
    pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,132
    kle4 said:

    Last result

    Ok, on this one the gap between LD and Lab probably is large enough to ensure the latter get lead contender status.
    A tacit agreement between Labour and LD to carve the seats up - Mid Beds to the yellows, the other two to the reds - and not try too hard in each other's targets would be helpful here.
  • Options
    CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761
    glw said:

    glw said:

    Do people on this site really want all the fighting age men of ukraine to be slaughtered.

    No of course not. We want all the fighting age men of Russia to be slaughtered.
    I don't wish for anyone to be slaughtered, personally.
    Quite. The challenge is how to achieve that. It’s the eternal problem in wars. Pretty sure most Brits in WW2 didn’t want people slaughtered but there comes a point where you have to fight. And sometimes some people end up dead to save the lives of many more.
    I agree with the principle. But the language used in the initial post I didn't, we should not be aiming to slaughter anyone, the point should be as few casualties as possible. It was a very American-feeling post, "slaughter the bastards", I strongly oppose that kind of thing.
    If Ukraine doesn't inflict a lot of casualties they won't drive Russia from Ukraine, as without a lot of casualties Putin will too easily replenish them. Ukraine can't afford a stalemate, they need to go as hard and as fast as possible and that does mean killing a lot of Russian soldiers.
    I'm not doubting that - but just don't like the idea anyone takes pleasure in seeing people killed.
  • Options
    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,461
    viewcode said:

    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    ping said:

    HYUFD said:

    That Starmer email. No mention of Mid Beds ...

    https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1667448668360695808

    As I said:
    Its been reported quite widely that Starmer and Davey get on very well and have conversations. So I assume that they have already Tehran Conferenced the coming byelections:
    Rutherglen: Labour
    Mid Beds: LibDems
    Uxbridge: Labour
    If the Tories pick a local councillor in nearly 10% Hindu Uxbridge they could even win it under Rishi.

    Would be amusing if Labour lost Uxbridge but the LDs won Mid Beds which I think is possible.

    Leaving Labour's only gain from the SNP not the Tories in Rutherglen
    I don’t know what is more sad.

    Your assumption that Hindus will vote, as a block, for a Hindu, or the fact that your assumption is probably correct.

    Our politics shouldn’t work like this.
    Leicester has the highest Hindu percentage of voters in the UK and the Tories had their best result in the local elections in the UK by far in Leicester in May gaining 17 seats from Labour. Hindus may only be less than 2% of the UK population but for them having one of their own as UK PM is as big as Obama being US President was for African Americans. Where the Hindu population is well above average there may even be a swing to the Conservatives while Rishi is PM

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2023/england/councils/E06000016
    And do you think the opposite could be true? Voters who see brown-skinned Hindu and change their vote from Conservative to something else? Given that Hindus are outnumbered in Uxbridge by Christians, atheists, and Muslims, do you think the PM's ethnicity and religion could count more against than for him?
    No.
    You've never met a racist? Lucky you.
    You desperately want all Conservatives or Conservative-inclined voters to be racist because this would conveniently fit your world view.

    Unfortunately for you, it's not true; your prejudices are just that.
    Not all, but do you think there might be a minority, perhaps 1-2% of the country, who won't vote for a non-white PM?
    The visceral dislike of Rishi Sunak on the right of the Tory Party is quite something. Does his ethnicity play into this in some way? I'd hope not but I think it probably does.
    My parents voted for Truss in the leadership contest because they felt Sunak uncommitted to this country. I don't think this so much racism as his Green card and Non-Dom wife, properties in California, and his comment that if it hadn't been for his political career he would have stayed in California.
    Perhaps we should double-down on not being committed to this country and draft in a political equivalent of Sven-Göran Eriksson to run the government?
    There's a challenge. Here y'go, PB: which politician from another country would you draft in to be PM? Double points if not American. Stephen Harper? Sanna Marin? Leo Varadkar?
    If we're allowed historical ones, Adolfo Suárez of Spain. Rose through the ranks under Franco, became PM after Franco's death under the rules Franco left behind. Then negotiated a transition to a democratic state, using the mechanisms of the undemocratic state to do so in such a way that hardly anyone could complain.

    Clearly a slippery so and so, but on the side of the angels. We could do with someone like that.
  • Options
    CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761
    Now 31
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,856

    It the moonhowlers self-select and quit it's no skin off my rosy nose.

    They don't reliably vote for or support the Government in Parliament anyway, and provided sensible candidates are selected (big if) there's a chance of swapping them out with someone sane.

    Your party looks like a shitshow in a fuck factory.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,976

    Are we seriously getting minimum four by-elections this summer? Let joy be unconfined.

    Typical.
    You wait months for one then four come along at once.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,976

    It the moonhowlers self-select and quit it's no skin off my rosy nose.

    They don't reliably vote for or support the Government in Parliament anyway, and provided sensible candidates are selected (big if) there's a chance of swapping them out with someone sane.

    Your party looks like a shitshow in a fuck factory.
    You're very kind.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,358

    It the moonhowlers self-select and quit it's no skin off my rosy nose.

    They don't reliably vote for or support the Government in Parliament anyway, and provided sensible candidates are selected (big if) there's a chance of swapping them out with someone sane.

    Your party looks like a shitshow in a fuck factory.
    I thought the US was at least 5 hours behind the UK, not ahead?

    Maybe they open early on a Saturday over there. Dunno.
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,856

    It the moonhowlers self-select and quit it's no skin off my rosy nose.

    They don't reliably vote for or support the Government in Parliament anyway, and provided sensible candidates are selected (big if) there's a chance of swapping them out with someone sane.

    Your party looks like a shitshow in a fuck factory.
    I thought the US was at least 5 hours behind the UK, not ahead?

    Maybe they open early on a Saturday over there. Dunno.
    Not a denial. Noted.
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,416

    It the moonhowlers self-select and quit it's no skin off my rosy nose.

    They don't reliably vote for or support the Government in Parliament anyway, and provided sensible candidates are selected (big if) there's a chance of swapping them out with someone sane.

    Weren’t the moonhowlers the future once, with you right behind them?

    If so, what is the lesson from this parable?
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,856

    Now 31

    Includes “Poker Face” by Lady Gaga and “That’s Not My Name” by the Ting Tings, apparently.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,283

    viewcode said:

    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    ping said:

    HYUFD said:

    That Starmer email. No mention of Mid Beds ...

    https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1667448668360695808

    As I said:
    Its been reported quite widely that Starmer and Davey get on very well and have conversations. So I assume that they have already Tehran Conferenced the coming byelections:
    Rutherglen: Labour
    Mid Beds: LibDems
    Uxbridge: Labour
    If the Tories pick a local councillor in nearly 10% Hindu Uxbridge they could even win it under Rishi.

    Would be amusing if Labour lost Uxbridge but the LDs won Mid Beds which I think is possible.

    Leaving Labour's only gain from the SNP not the Tories in Rutherglen
    I don’t know what is more sad.

    Your assumption that Hindus will vote, as a block, for a Hindu, or the fact that your assumption is probably correct.

    Our politics shouldn’t work like this.
    Leicester has the highest Hindu percentage of voters in the UK and the Tories had their best result in the local elections in the UK by far in Leicester in May gaining 17 seats from Labour. Hindus may only be less than 2% of the UK population but for them having one of their own as UK PM is as big as Obama being US President was for African Americans. Where the Hindu population is well above average there may even be a swing to the Conservatives while Rishi is PM

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2023/england/councils/E06000016
    And do you think the opposite could be true? Voters who see brown-skinned Hindu and change their vote from Conservative to something else? Given that Hindus are outnumbered in Uxbridge by Christians, atheists, and Muslims, do you think the PM's ethnicity and religion could count more against than for him?
    No.
    You've never met a racist? Lucky you.
    You desperately want all Conservatives or Conservative-inclined voters to be racist because this would conveniently fit your world view.

    Unfortunately for you, it's not true; your prejudices are just that.
    Not all, but do you think there might be a minority, perhaps 1-2% of the country, who won't vote for a non-white PM?
    The visceral dislike of Rishi Sunak on the right of the Tory Party is quite something. Does his ethnicity play into this in some way? I'd hope not but I think it probably does.
    My parents voted for Truss in the leadership contest because they felt Sunak uncommitted to this country. I don't think this so much racism as his Green card and Non-Dom wife, properties in California, and his comment that if it hadn't been for his political career he would have stayed in California.
    Perhaps we should double-down on not being committed to this country and draft in a political equivalent of Sven-Göran Eriksson to run the government?
    There's a challenge. Here y'go, PB: which politician from another country would you draft in to be PM? Double points if not American. Stephen Harper? Sanna Marin? Leo Varadkar?
    Emmanuel Macron or Michel Barnier.
    Or that Tusk guy, from the EU but originally Poland?
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,856

    It the moonhowlers self-select and quit it's no skin off my rosy nose.

    They don't reliably vote for or support the Government in Parliament anyway, and provided sensible candidates are selected (big if) there's a chance of swapping them out with someone sane.

    Weren’t the moonhowlers the future once, with you right behind them?

    If so, what is the lesson from this parable?
    MoonRabbit 1 MoonHowler 0.
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,416

    Now 31

    Includes “Poker Face” by Lady Gaga and “That’s Not My Name” by the Ting Tings, apparently.
    Only another 68 to go and then a full complement of them floating in the summer sky. And then we really will be in trouble.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,283

    Nigel Adams stands down with immediate effect.

    Internal dissent simply increases the chance of our Heathener actually turning out to be right.
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    Penddu2Penddu2 Posts: 595
    boulay said:

    GIN1138 said:

    I take it with all these threads by TSE that OGH is holiday?

    We should have known the shit was going to his the fan big time... 😂

    It’s going to be a nice quiet weekend topping up the tan. Everything will be nice and quiet. Cocktails in the sun. No need for PB. No need for Malmesbury to get his Davey Crocket out. Not that there is any kind of day that actually needs Malmesbury to get his Davey Crocket out.
    Reminds me of a joke I loved when I was little.

    How many ears did Davey Crocket have?

    3, his left ear, his right ear and his wild front ear.
    Doesnt work in a Welsh accent..
  • Options
    boulayboulay Posts: 3,934

    It the moonhowlers self-select and quit it's no skin off my rosy nose.

    They don't reliably vote for or support the Government in Parliament anyway, and provided sensible candidates are selected (big if) there's a chance of swapping them out with someone sane.

    Your party looks like a shitshow in a fuck factory.
    News just in; Mark Oaten joins the Tory party.
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,416
    IanB2 said:

    Nigel Adams stands down with immediate effect.

    Internal dissent simply increases the chance of our Heathener actually turning out to be right.
    😱 . .
  • Options
    GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,001
    Champions League Final tonight, though I don’t have BT sport so won’t be watching!

    Actually hotter in Manchester than in Istanbul right now, remarkably.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,115
    boulay said:

    It the moonhowlers self-select and quit it's no skin off my rosy nose.

    They don't reliably vote for or support the Government in Parliament anyway, and provided sensible candidates are selected (big if) there's a chance of swapping them out with someone sane.

    Your party looks like a shitshow in a fuck factory.
    News just in; Mark Oaten joins the Tory party.
    C’mon, he’s not that pervy.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,472

    NEW THREAD WITH A FIRST AVAILABLE

  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,780
    Nigelb said:

    Good thread, setting out very clearly the Johnsonian dishonesty.

    This isn't a resignation statement; it's a temper tantrum.

    And its central claim is untrue.

    Johnson says he was "forced out anti-democratically" by a "kangaroo court".

    So let's remind ourselves of the process from which he has chosen to run away... 🧵

    https://twitter.com/redhistorian/status/1667285583985537024

    Boris is effectively saying that the entire House of Commons, where his party has an overwhelming majority, is a kangaroo court biased against him.

    And that the public could not override that kangaroo court and return him even if it was.

    It's classic Boris - superficially confident blustering which strikes the right note of outrage at 'enemies' to garner plenty of support, despite being nonsense.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,283

    Last result

    A 20,000 majority might be enough to tempt Boris.
    So it hangs on whether Bryant is right about procedure, or not?
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,283
    Roger said:

    Just heard Any Questions. Can't remember a more dislikable panel

    Serves you right for being such an occasional listener.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,976
    edited June 2023
    Those pointing out Labour used to hold Selby, beware.
    They did, between 1997 and 2010. Marginally.
    But it wasn't this Selby.
    That Selby was Selby and a substantial bit of York. Including the University.
    This Selby and Ainsty is Selby and a collection of villages near Harrogate.
    Not the same thing at all.
    Bet accordingly.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,312

    A minimum of 4 by-elections this summer. At what point do you say “sod it” and call a General Election instead?

    Only 4? There were FIFTEEN in NI during January 1986.
  • Options
    Penddu2Penddu2 Posts: 595
    Ghedebrav said:

    Champions League Final tonight, though I don’t have BT sport so won’t be watching!

    Actually hotter in Manchester than in Istanbul right now, remarkably.

    you dont need BT Sport - it will be on BT Sport's Youtube Channel. Free. And Legal.
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,128
    IanB2 said:

    Last result

    A 20,000 majority might be enough to tempt Boris.
    So it hangs on whether Bryant is right about procedure, or not?
    I don't know why people think there is a mystery about this, that Bryant may or may not have some special insight into, denied to mere mortals.

    Anyone can easily look up what the statute says:
    https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/25/body
  • Options
    northern_monkeynorthern_monkey Posts: 1,517
    Ghedebrav said:

    Champions League Final tonight, though I don’t have BT sport so won’t be watching!

    Actually hotter in Manchester than in Istanbul right now, remarkably.

    It’s free to watch on the BT Sport YouTube channel mate
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,462

    viewcode said:

    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    ping said:

    HYUFD said:

    That Starmer email. No mention of Mid Beds ...

    https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1667448668360695808

    As I said:
    Its been reported quite widely that Starmer and Davey get on very well and have conversations. So I assume that they have already Tehran Conferenced the coming byelections:
    Rutherglen: Labour
    Mid Beds: LibDems
    Uxbridge: Labour
    If the Tories pick a local councillor in nearly 10% Hindu Uxbridge they could even win it under Rishi.

    Would be amusing if Labour lost Uxbridge but the LDs won Mid Beds which I think is possible.

    Leaving Labour's only gain from the SNP not the Tories in Rutherglen
    I don’t know what is more sad.

    Your assumption that Hindus will vote, as a block, for a Hindu, or the fact that your assumption is probably correct.

    Our politics shouldn’t work like this.
    Leicester has the highest Hindu percentage of voters in the UK and the Tories had their best result in the local elections in the UK by far in Leicester in May gaining 17 seats from Labour. Hindus may only be less than 2% of the UK population but for them having one of their own as UK PM is as big as Obama being US President was for African Americans. Where the Hindu population is well above average there may even be a swing to the Conservatives while Rishi is PM

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2023/england/councils/E06000016
    And do you think the opposite could be true? Voters who see brown-skinned Hindu and change their vote from Conservative to something else? Given that Hindus are outnumbered in Uxbridge by Christians, atheists, and Muslims, do you think the PM's ethnicity and religion could count more against than for him?
    No.
    You've never met a racist? Lucky you.
    You desperately want all Conservatives or Conservative-inclined voters to be racist because this would conveniently fit your world view.

    Unfortunately for you, it's not true; your prejudices are just that.
    Not all, but do you think there might be a minority, perhaps 1-2% of the country, who won't vote for a non-white PM?
    The visceral dislike of Rishi Sunak on the right of the Tory Party is quite something. Does his ethnicity play into this in some way? I'd hope not but I think it probably does.
    My parents voted for Truss in the leadership contest because they felt Sunak uncommitted to this country. I don't think this so much racism as his Green card and Non-Dom wife, properties in California, and his comment that if it hadn't been for his political career he would have stayed in California.
    Perhaps we should double-down on not being committed to this country and draft in a political equivalent of Sven-Göran Eriksson to run the government?
    There's a challenge. Here y'go, PB: which politician from another country would you draft in to be PM? Double points if not American. Stephen Harper? Sanna Marin? Leo Varadkar?
    Emmanuel Macron or Michel Barnier.
    I like @williamglenn's suggestion - many would argue that Britain’s most successful rulers have always been imports - the Windsors amongst them. The Germans are good at being British -they often do it better than us, with an impressive teutonic commitment. Look at the Goring hotel. Providing loyalty to the British taxpayer is assured, if only within the term of the contract, it beats Boris or Sunak. And providing competency and cunning is assured, it beats Truss.



  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,358

    It the moonhowlers self-select and quit it's no skin off my rosy nose.

    They don't reliably vote for or support the Government in Parliament anyway, and provided sensible candidates are selected (big if) there's a chance of swapping them out with someone sane.

    Your party looks like a shitshow in a fuck factory.
    I thought the US was at least 5 hours behind the UK, not ahead?

    Maybe they open early on a Saturday over there. Dunno.
    Not a denial. Noted.
    I have better things to do with my time than wrestle in shit with you.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,358

    It the moonhowlers self-select and quit it's no skin off my rosy nose.

    They don't reliably vote for or support the Government in Parliament anyway, and provided sensible candidates are selected (big if) there's a chance of swapping them out with someone sane.

    Weren’t the moonhowlers the future once, with you right behind them?

    If so, what is the lesson from this parable?
    No, I never backed the moonhowlers and have never been one.
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775

    It the moonhowlers self-select and quit it's no skin off my rosy nose.

    They don't reliably vote for or support the Government in Parliament anyway, and provided sensible candidates are selected (big if) there's a chance of swapping them out with someone sane.

    Your party looks like a shitshow in a fuck factory.
    I thought the US was at least 5 hours behind the UK, not ahead?

    Maybe they open early on a Saturday over there. Dunno.
    Not a denial. Noted.
    I have better things to do with my time than wrestle in shit with you.
    Factcheck: false
  • Options
    BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,994
    edited June 2023

    Ghedebrav said:

    I think the Tories may hold Mid Beds relatively comfortably. Labour is unlikely to give the LDs a clear run because local activists will not allow it - not just in the constituency itself, but it ones nearby. That should be enough to let the Tories through on a much reduced vote share.

    This will be key - though I think given the appearance of Uxbridge now too makes an informal pact more likely, as the LDs give Labour a clear run there.

    It *is* easy to forget that the rivalry between the Lib Dems and Labour can often be deep and vicious at local level.
    Yes - IIRC the Ukbridge LibDem last time ran on an "only I can win here" slogan, starting at 4%. But I agree that the two by-elections make an unofficial understanding more likely.
    As a registered supporter of the Labour Party I've only received a call-to-arms for Uxbridge.
    Mid Beds isn't mentioned.
    As a member of the LibDems it is the reverse.
    So this will be like the T&H and Wakefield by-elections I think.
This discussion has been closed.