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Starmer is still struggling to win Tory converts – politicalbetting.com

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  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,094
    Farooq said:

    I don't think Alba will exist in a meaningful way in a few years' time. They are seen as extremist weirdos in most quarters.
    Can you name some of these quarters. They are all the long term Independence supporters who have left SNP. Just spouting shite is pretty dumb even for you.
  • CampuntCampunt Posts: 29
    West is being humiliated by russia now. It is in ukraines interest to push for peace before they lose more of their good men.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    edited May 2023
    Campunt said:

    One thing thats not taken into account for tory prospects is how the ukraine war goes. With our decision to send f16 fighter jets we are pretty much all in and given the sacrifices made by us all over the past year any reversals on the battlefield could well play badly.
    How many of their zero F16s, will the UK be sending to Ukraine?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,563
    Campunt said:

    The writing of Foreign Affairs and National Interest reveals that the USA is already "looking back" on Ukraine NI: WASHINGTON MADE A STRATEGIC MISTAKE BY ENTERING THE WAR AGAINST RUSSIA FA: "It's time for the West to start more actively planning the future of Ukraine, not focusing only on the announced counter-offensive." History shows that some conflicts can be very difficult to end" NI: "The irony of the situation is that the West was drawn into the war against Russia at the very moment when it should have been developing a dialogue with it in order to oppose China... The US is in the mood for a confrontation with two great powers, and only naive optimists believe that Washington can win"

    https://twitter.com/Spriter99880/status/1658740124908126209?s=20

    Give my respects to Vlad when you see him!
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,664
    edited May 2023
    Sean_F said:

    How many minutes before the ban hammer strikes.

    I think we should have some fun with this one.
  • CampuntCampunt Posts: 29
    Hmm not one counter argumentbyet apart from acvusing me of being a russian bot. You all know the truth and are afraid to admit it.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,255
    Farooq said:

    The Saturday bots always seem to me a blend of HYUFD and Dura Ace in tone.

    Maybe that is it. Maybe it is Robert creating these trolls using AI from a mix of PB posters. If he is then I think he is using a very old version of ChatGPT to do it :)
  • CampuntCampunt Posts: 29
    Where is the ukraine spring counter offensive. Why is it repeadetly delayed hmmm
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    Campunt said:

    West is being humiliated by russia now. It is in ukraines interest to push for peace before they lose more of their good men.

    LOL. The only humiliation going on, is that of Vladimir Putin and his Potemkin army.

    Bye bye, troll.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,939
    Campunt said:

    Hmm not one counter argumentbyet apart from acvusing me of being a russian bot. You all know the truth and are afraid to admit it.

    OK.
    I'll play along.
    So why aren't the Russians in Kyiv?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,933
    Campunt said:

    Where is the ukraine spring counter offensive. Why is it repeadetly delayed hmmm

    What are your thoughts on Covid vaccines?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,094

    Will Alba be standing candidates against the SNP? Indeed will their two MPs - originally elected as SNP - be standing for re-election?
    I would hope they stand a few
    Farooq said:

    Yeah, I'll name two: unionists and separatists.

    And sorry, the polling entirely supports this. Alba are bumping along the bottom. Two percent. Three percent. When 5% is the outlier on the upside, you know that something drastic needs to happen. And, honestly, given drastic things HAVE been happening and there's still no breakthrough suggests that I am spot on.
    Politics is a bitch, and Alba are probably doomed. I can't see any evidence to the contrary, only wishful thinking.
    What is a separatist. Unionists is like saying bears shit in the woods.
    People do not instantly flock to new political parties so hard to say at this point what will happen, especially given the state of the largest party in Scotland , the hatred for the London run unionist parties etc.
    I would say as usual you are talking out of your biased unionist arse.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,349
    Campunt said:

    West is being humiliated by russia now. It is in ukraines interest to push for peace before they lose more of their good men.

    At least Lord Haw Haw played the latest jazz sounds between the propoganda.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,255

    I think we should have some fun with this one.
    We could but the trouble is there is no quality to them. No challenge. Some of those from last year were a lot of fun. Some of them even knew how to write coherent English. This latest batch sound like they were dragged off the streets of Vladivostok and taught English by a Mongolian yak herder.
  • CampuntCampunt Posts: 29
    dixiedean said:

    OK.
    I'll play along.
    So why aren't the Russians in Kyiv?
    Russian strategy is to degrade the ukrainian army and air defences not just capture territory. When this is done the way is clear. Fool zelensky fell into the trap.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,094
    Campunt said:

    Hmm not one counter argumentbyet apart from acvusing me of being a russian bot. You all know the truth and are afraid to admit it.

    When is the victory parade in Kyiv then
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    Campunt said:
    Putin is now Xi’s bitch. Yet Xi won’t even help him out by sending any weapons.
  • Campunt said:

    Where is the ukraine spring counter offensive. Why is it repeadetly delayed hmmm

    I must have missed the calendar invite they sent out for it
  • CampuntCampunt Posts: 29

    Is there a betting market on when Vladimir Putin will come out of the closet?

    He’s so deep in the closet he’s having adventures in Narnia.




    As the uk demographically transitions i dont think the gay areas in the uk will exist in 30 years.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    Campunt said:

    This is what im worried about.

    An official declaration of Russian victory for the Battle for Bakhmut is expected within the coming days. Given the depletion of reportedly 300,000+ Ukrainian forces combined with their inadequate air defense capabilities, this is expected to be a watershed moment in the war.

    https://twitter.com/WarClandestine/status/1659646546068029440?s=20

    Worried about the Russian victory in Bakhmut being about as successful as the Russian victory in Kherson?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,939
    Standout from the tables in the header for me is this. Apologies if it has been noted.
    The lead amongst 25-49 is almost as great as the 18-24. And there is a lead amongst all age groups of working age.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,933
    Campunt said:

    As the uk demographically transitions i dont think the gay areas in the uk will exist in 30 years.
    What are these gay areas and how does one visit them? They sound fun.
  • CampuntCampunt Posts: 29
    dixiedean said:

    Standout from the tables in the header for me is this. Apologies if it has been noted.
    The lead amongst 25-49 is almost as great as the 18-24. And there is a lead amongst all age groups of working age.

    Yes and from my conversations support for the ukraine war is falling. Zelensky is seen for what he is.
  • CampuntCampunt Posts: 29
    Once the us election cycle starts its over for ukraine aid. Then ukraine will collapse. Trump supports russia too.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,979
    Farooq said:

    Yeah, I'll name two: unionists and separatists.

    And sorry, the polling entirely supports this. Alba are bumping along the bottom. Two percent. Three percent. When 5% is the outlier on the upside, you know that something drastic needs to happen. And, honestly, given drastic things HAVE been happening and there's still no breakthrough suggests that I am spot on.
    Politics is a bitch, and Alba are probably doomed. I can't see any evidence to the contrary, only wishful thinking.
    Problem for Alba is that Salmond draws attention to them and gives them a voice, but he's so personally unpopular that he imposes a low ceiling on their potential vote. A conundrum.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,596
    malcolmg said:

    I would hope they stand a few but their focus will be Holyrood. Westminster is not important other than to disrupt, current mob have gone native thanks to the money poured at them. It is in Holyrood or Scotland at large by Convention . where Independence will be decided. Westminster is a sideshow.
    I hope they stand in a few selected seats where they can get rid of a few of the worst idiots. Pete Wishart, Kirsten Oswald and John Nicolson for example.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    Campunt said:

    Russian strategy is to degrade the ukrainian army and air defences not just capture territory. When this is done the way is clear. Fool zelensky fell into the trap.
    It’s interesting you’re choosing to give Zelenskyy agency.

    I thought he was supposed to be a “puppet” ??
  • CampuntCampunt Posts: 29
    TimS said:

    What are these gay areas and how does one visit them? They sound fun.
    Visit them now they will be gone in 30 years as the west changes.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    Campunt said:

    Yes and from my conversations support for the ukraine war is falling. Zelensky is seen for what he is.
    Where do you live? Where I live, I see thousands of rich Russians who have got the hell out of their failing hellhole of a country, taking their money with them. They won’t be going back when the war finishes either.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,094

    Will Alba be standing candidates against the SNP? Indeed will their two MPs - originally elected as SNP - be standing for re-election?
    I would hope they stand a few
    Farooq said:

    I'm not a unionist, I'm on the fence on independence. I could vote for or against.
    Also, I'm not against the idea of Alba. I think multiple parties on both sides can only be a good thing for Scottish democracy. I just don't think Alba have a future because they have a profound image problem.
    Time will tell, we for sure need an alternative Scottish party to the corrupt SNP and not any of the London lickspittle sockpuppet parties fit the bill. Greens are thick crooks so only leaves ISP or ALBA as real Independence parties at present.
    I will vote for either of those two or not at all.
  • CampuntCampunt Posts: 29
    I think many people who are gay in the uk are not really gay but just want to be fashionable.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,933
    ping said:

    It’s interesting you’re choosing to give Zelenskyy agency.

    I thought he was supposed to be a “puppet” ??
    It’s a case of chucking all sorts of shit at the wall and seeing what sticks.

    “Cam-punt” can I suggest you report back to your line manager saying the PB members would like them to send someone a bit more sophisticated next Saturday. Cheers.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,709

    I'm curious as to how much of this stuff they actually believe.
    Alternatively there's a large number of Russians trying to break into the alt-history genre, and they'd heard PB was frequented by significant figures in the publishing trade ?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,094

    Will Alba be standing candidates against the SNP? Indeed will their two MPs - originally elected as SNP - be standing for re-election?
    I would hope they stand a few

    I hope they stand in a few selected seats where they can get rid of a few of the worst idiots. Pete Wishart, Kirsten Oswald and John Nicolson for example.
    I agree Red, come Holyrood unless big changes people will realise they need to use 2nd vote for Independence parties and not gift shedloads of seats to unionists, assuming SNP are still winning constituency seats that is, big if the way they are going though.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,917
    Campunt said:

    As the uk demographically transitions i dont think the gay areas in the uk will exist in 30 years.
    I think we need a comment from you about Putin's secret gay agenda. The lady doth protest too much, methinks.
  • CampuntCampunt Posts: 29
    Think russia has the right balance on the gay issue tolerate but dont promote and no gay ghettos
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,596
    Campunt said:

    Once the us election cycle starts its over for ukraine aid. Then ukraine will collapse. Trump supports russia too.

    Are you still here? The mods must be having a morning off!
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,835
    Campunt said:

    Once the us election cycle starts its over for ukraine aid. Then ukraine will collapse. Trump supports russia too.

    It's revealing that even you think that Russia's best chance is for its three day speicial operation to last three years and that Ukraine can survive indefinitely with the help of the West.
  • CampuntCampunt Posts: 29

    Are you still here? The mods must be having a morning off!
    How could you do without my wisdom sadly lacking in western leaders
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,928
    Farooq said:

    Yes, that's part of it. But it's not just Salmond. It's where the troublemakers have gone. That's probably not a sustainable beginning.
    The flipside of the "it's where the troublemakers have gone" argument is that what that means for the SNP is it's where the supine, careerist non-rock-the-boats have stayed.

    Alba's main image problem to me is more that it doesn't really have any image, outside of the indy blogosphere. Certainly not beyond Salmond himself, that is.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,359
    Campunt said:

    Incredible losses": the West will not be able to make up for the losses of the Ukrainian army Former adviser to the head of the Pentagon, Douglas McGregor, said that since the beginning of the Russian special operation, the Armed Forces of Ukraine have lost about 10,000 armored vehicles. Such losses are incredible and cannot be replenished.

    https://twitter.com/djuric_zlatko/status/1658009191879933955?s=20

    I'll actually feed the troll in this case. 10,000 seems like an *incredible* amount, and it is certainly a grand claim. However, if we look back, we can see claims that Ukraine 'lost' 2,500 armoured vehicles in two years in the Donbass. Even with the larger scale of this conflict, 10,000 seems a bit of a stretch for the defenders. (1). A lot will depend on the classification of 'armoured vehicle'.

    However, Douglas MacGregor has apparently been making lots of claims during this war that have not exactly panned out. E.g, from three days after the war started:

    "The battle in eastern Ukraine is really almost over," and predicted "If [Ukraine] don't surrender in the next 24 hours, I suspect Russia will ultimately annihilate them." ".

    And a few days later:
    " "The first five days Russian forces I think frankly were too gentle. They've now corrected that. So, I would say another 10 days this should be completely over... I think the most heroic thing he could do right now is come to terms with reality. Neutralize Ukraine."

    He seems to be rather optimistically pro-Russian; but his previous quotes and predictions appear to be far off-base. I'd class him as yet another ex-military bod desperately trying to remain relevant.

    (1): https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-armored-vehicles-significantly-damaged-2-years-of-donbas-conflict/30429979.html
    (2): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_Macgregor
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,709
    Campunt said:

    Russian strategy is to degrade the ukrainian army and air defences not just capture territory. When this is done the way is clear. Fool zelensky fell into the trap.
    Fell into the trap of being invaded ?
    Interesting suggestion that he should have marched on Moscow first.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,012
    edited May 2023
    Guardian headline to savour. Perhaps a Russian chatbot has gone off piste:

    "Couple get payout after water buffaloes fall into Essex swimming pool"
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,094

    Will Alba be standing candidates against the SNP? Indeed will their two MPs - originally elected as SNP - be standing for re-election?
    I would hope they stand a few
    Farooq said:

    Yes, that's part of it. But it's not just Salmond. It's where the troublemakers have gone. That's probably not a sustainable beginning.
    You mean the ones that said the SNP were crooked and not interested in Independence and were troughing and stealing all the cash donated. Right enough, you seem to be really up to speed on how things have gone.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,938
    algarkirk said:

    Guardian headline to savour:

    "Couple get payout after water buffaloes fall into Essex swimming pool"

    This happened to us last year.
  • CampuntCampunt Posts: 29

    It's revealing that even you think that Russia's best chance is for its three day speicial operation to last three years and that Ukraine can survive indefinitely with the help of the West.
    Ukraine will loseceithercway now sadly. A tragedy for their people who i like very much.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,094

    Will Alba be standing candidates against the SNP? Indeed will their two MPs - originally elected as SNP - be standing for re-election?
    I would hope they stand a few

    Are you still here? The mods must be having a morning off!
    They are too busy laughing their socks off.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,709
    Campunt said:

    I think many people who are gay in the uk are not really gay but just want to be fashionable.

    Only Russians are genuinely gay ?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,835
    Campunt said:

    Ukraine will loseceithercway now sadly. A tragedy for their people who i like very much.
    Please explain more about how a Russian victory would be a tragedy for the Ukrainian people. What does Russia have in store for them?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,709
    Campunt said:

    ...Trump supports russia too.

    True dat.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,596

    Problem for Alba is that Salmond draws attention to them and gives them a voice, but he's so personally unpopular that he imposes a low ceiling on their potential vote. A conundrum.
    BBC QT was interesting last Thursday. The reaction to Alex Salmond improved markedly during the programme as people realised he talked sense and wasn’t the ogre depicted by the media. I was particularly intrigued that he was invited onto QT. Is the SNP’s control of the media weakening?
  • CampuntCampunt Posts: 29

    Please explain more about how a Russian victory would be a tragedy for the Ukrainian people. What does Russia have in store for them?
    The loss of ukrainian life is a tragedy for them.
  • CampuntCampunt Posts: 29
    After the hardest fighting in Europe since WW2 Wagner Group stands victorious. A highly trained enemy with hundreds of billions of dollars and the best mercenaries the NATO world can offer. Blood! Honor! Motherland! Courage! still wins in the end. Be True to Yourself!

    https://twitter.com/JamesPorrazzo/status/1659672458482294787?s=20
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,094

    Will Alba be standing candidates against the SNP? Indeed will their two MPs - originally elected as SNP - be standing for re-election?
    I would hope they stand a few
    Farooq said:

    No, I mean the troublemakers. The people who hijack debates and aggressively harangue people. The Momentum of the independence movement.
    Again just sweeping statements of no relevance. Who is being harangued, SNP are on the outrage bus due to people chastising them for being useless and crooks, why would you class that as haranguing.
  • CampuntCampunt Posts: 29
    Farooq said:

    Does the SNP control the media??
    In the same way the bbc is a branch of uk intelligence services
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,094

    BBC QT was interesting last Thursday. The reaction to Alex Salmond improved markedly during the programme as people realised he talked sense and wasn’t the ogre depicted by the media. I was particularly intrigued that he was invited onto QT. Is the SNP’s control of the media weakening?
    He manages to fill up every meeting he attends as well. SNP are scared to hold any meetings now because they cannot fill a telephone box.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,709

    BBC QT was interesting last Thursday. The reaction to Alex Salmond improved markedly during the programme as people realised he talked sense and wasn’t the ogre depicted by the media. I was particularly intrigued that he was invited onto QT. Is the SNP’s control of the media weakening?
    QT welcomes all manner of strange figures, so I wouldn't draw too many inferences.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    Campunt said:

    After the hardest fighting in Europe since WW2 Wagner Group stands victorious. A highly trained enemy with hundreds of billions of dollars and the best mercenaries the NATO world can offer. Blood! Honor! Motherland! Courage! still wins in the end. Be True to Yourself!

    https://twitter.com/JamesPorrazzo/status/1659672458482294787?s=20

    Wagner Group chief Yevgeny Prigozhin, isn’t quite so optimistic.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/04/29/yevgeny-prigozhin-wagner-group-soon-cease-exist/
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,094

    Will Alba be standing candidates against the SNP? Indeed will their two MPs - originally elected as SNP - be standing for re-election?
    I would hope they stand a few
    Farooq said:

    Does the SNP control the media??
    It certainly used to
  • CampuntCampunt Posts: 29
    Us military reputation taking severe blows now.

    Ukraine claims one Patriot launcher was destroyed and one damaged. Russia claims five launchers were destroyed plus a system critical radar set. Who to believe? Destroying launchers will degrade performance, but destroying a radar set blinds the system and renders it inoperable. Either way, it was a brilliantly successful attack. The operators of the 240 (minus 1) Patriot fire units around the world have seen a practical demonstration of how it can be overwhelmed and defeated. That must make them very nervous. Reputationally, the Raytheon "Patriot" brand suffered a very public blow, along with the almighty US military-industrial complex.

    https://twitter.com/CheburekiMan/status/1659779873102258176?s=20
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,917
    edited May 2023
    Campunt said:

    After the hardest fighting in Europe since WW2 Wagner Group stands victorious. A highly trained enemy with hundreds of billions of dollars and the best mercenaries the NATO world can offer. Blood! Honor! Motherland! Courage! still wins in the end. Be True to Yourself!

    https://twitter.com/JamesPorrazzo/status/1659672458482294787?s=20

    I just think the whole war is a tragic mistake that arose because Putin has the hots for Zelensky, who can play the piano with his penis:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-UiadUOrfk

    If Zelensky had only been willing to play the piano with Putin's penis, the whole thing could have been avoided.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,094
    Campunt said:

    After the hardest fighting in Europe since WW2 Wagner Group stands victorious. A highly trained enemy with hundreds of billions of dollars and the best mercenaries the NATO world can offer. Blood! Honor! Motherland! Courage! still wins in the end. Be True to Yourself!

    https://twitter.com/JamesPorrazzo/status/1659672458482294787?s=20

    LOL Wagner could not beat a carpet. OK for murdering women and children but not so smart when they meet soldiers. Good at running back to Russian lines though.
  • CampuntCampunt Posts: 29
    Sandpit said:

    Wagner Group chief Yevgeny Prigozhin, isn’t quite so optimistic.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/04/29/yevgeny-prigozhin-wagner-group-soon-cease-exist/
    Thats from 29th april. What is it with the incompetence of modern brits.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,307

    I don't see any way the Tories can turn their party around in 24 months. All the more if they have managed to prevent Labour securing a majority. They really do need to lose big time for any meaningful change to happen.
    The whole point (and mandate) the Tories had in GE2019 from the Red Wall was that they'd grow The North like a mo-fo with Tory ways, using the private sector, tax breaks, enterprise zones, infrastructure and investment, rather than the "red" public sector subsidies, dependency, resentment and largesse.

    Covid was a crappy hand, but delivery has been no-where near enough to match the scale of ambition.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,709
    Campunt said:

    After the hardest fighting in Europe since WW2 Wagner Group stands victorious. A highly trained enemy with hundreds of billions of dollars and the best mercenaries the NATO world can offer. Blood! Honor! Motherland! Courage! still wins in the end. Be True to Yourself!

    https://twitter.com/JamesPorrazzo/status/1659672458482294787?s=20

    It's not even 2pm in Moscow.
    You need to seriously lay off the vodka.
  • CampuntCampunt Posts: 29
    Wagnerites will take Bakhmut very soon indeed. "Bakhmut has fallen!" - the militants of the Armed Forces of Ukraine are demoralized and say goodbye to loved ones Ukrainian militants began to record panic videos, where they have already come to terms with the defeat and loss of the city. One of the soldiers in the video under the shelling of the Wagner PMC says that "Bakhmut has fallen," and asks "not to commemorate dashingly." A couple of hours earlier, E. Prigozhin said that the Armed Forces of Ukraine had only 0,6 sq km left on the southwestern outskirts of the city, and the Wagner PMC was already close to fulfilling its task of capturing this enemy stronghold.

    https://twitter.com/TVajrayana/status/1659674673796243458?s=20
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,094

    Will Alba be standing candidates against the SNP? Indeed will their two MPs - originally elected as SNP - be standing for re-election?
    I would hope they stand a few
    Nigelb said:

    QT welcomes all manner of strange figures, so I wouldn't draw too many inferences.
    Nothing strange about him Nigel, he is still one of the best politicians in UK and it was a Scottish audience hearing reality rather than mince. Even the unionists in audience got it.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited May 2023
    Campunt said:

    After the hardest fighting in Europe since WW2 Wagner Group stands victorious. A highly trained enemy with hundreds of billions of dollars and the best mercenaries the NATO world can offer. Blood! Honor! Motherland! Courage! still wins in the end. Be True to Yourself!

    https://twitter.com/JamesPorrazzo/status/1659672458482294787?s=20

    Genuine question,

    Who, in the Wagner group, do you find most impressive?

    Put another way;

    If Putin were to die, or be removed or whatever, who would you want to replace him? I’m genuinely interested in your perspective.

    Who, in your opinion, are the runners and riders?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,709
    According to a joint statement issued by the G7 leaders on the eve of the summit in Hiroshima, Japan, the G7 leaders have pledged to ensure that Russia is defeated in its war against Ukraine and to support a just peace based on respect for international law.

    The G7 countries reaffirmed their commitment to provide the financial, humanitarian, military and diplomatic support Ukraine needs "for as long as necessary".

    https://twitter.com/Hromadske/status/1659871471114629120


  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,094
    Enough fun I must be of fand do something relevant, enjoy your Saturday and poking sticks at Ivan
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,626
    Campunt said:

    The loss of ukrainian life is a tragedy for them.
    What should they have done when their country was invaded? Stand by and wave the invaders in? This must be approaching the longest lightening campaign in the history of war.
    There was another war in Eastern Europe, started by a malevolent dictator. That ground to a halt, and the invaders fell into an attritional trap, before succumbing to a gigantic pincer.
    How is Bakhmut going?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,307
    Campunt said:

    West is being humiliated by russia now. It is in ukraines interest to push for peace before they lose more of their good men.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xz6kYe-DUTo
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,626
    Campunt said:

    In the same way the bbc is a branch of uk intelligence services
    Sadly you’ve been banned, but you’ve excelled yourself here, linking the BBC and intelligence in one sentence…
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,307
    Campunt said:

    West is being humiliated by russia now. It is in ukraines interest to push for peace before they lose more of their good men.

    You should never have have overthrown your Tsar and departed from the uneven path to constitutional monarchy and liberal democracy that Russia was following in the 1890s and 1900s.

    That's the mistake you made.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,709
    malcolmg said:

    I would hope they stand a few Nothing strange about him Nigel, he is still one of the best politicians in UK and it was a Scottish audience hearing reality rather than mince. Even the unionists in audience got it.
    I didn't say there was, malc.
    Just that a QT appearance isn't any great validation, given some of the utter dross that gets on the panel from time to time.

    I can't comment on Salmond's performance as I didn't see it.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,938
    edited May 2023

    You should never have have overthrown your Tsar and departed from the uneven path to constitutional monarchy and liberal democracy that Russia was following in the 1890s and 1900s.

    That's the mistake you made.
    The failure of one those first revolutions, for a constitutional monarchy, was a disaster for Russia and the world.

    It could have become a reasonably social democratic state, even while still incorporating a few more Marxist principles, like postwar Sweden, or Finland.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,038
    Campunt said:

    After the hardest fighting in Europe since WW2 Wagner Group stands victorious. A highly trained enemy with hundreds of billions of dollars and the best mercenaries the NATO world can offer. Blood! Honor! Motherland! Courage! still wins in the end. Be True to Yourself!

    https://twitter.com/JamesPorrazzo/status/1659672458482294787?s=20

    Thanks Vlad but Kyiv is still in Zelensky's hands
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,624
    malcolmg said:

    Enough fun I must be of fand do something relevant, enjoy your Saturday and poking sticks at Ivan

    Have a good day Malc.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,917
    edited May 2023
    Chris said:

    I just think the whole war is a tragic mistake that arose because Putin has the hots for Zelensky, who can play the piano with his penis:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-UiadUOrfk

    If Zelensky had only been willing to play the piano with Putin's penis, the whole thing could have been avoided.
    If only Zelensky had been willing to give Putin just one little kiss, all this could have been avoided:
    image
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,307
    edited May 2023
    Campunt said:

    Thats from 29th april. What is it with the incompetence of modern brits.
    And, yet, James Bond owns you in every single film - check out how he lays the smack down on Red Grant and dismantles SMERSH. Real history.

    We currently have dozens of such brilliant agents behind your lines, who also dress impeccably for dinner and seduce your women with their incomparable charm by the way, and you'll never know who they are.

    Be afraid. Be very afraid.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,835
    TimS said:

    That one certainly made the most of his or her half hour or so of trolling. Quite an output.

    It is actually interesting to get a look in on the lines being taken by Moscow. I assume most efforts are directed at US social media hence the right wing themes and homophobia, as well as the mention of how much the support is costing (which is a very US isolationist style argument).

    One interesting thing that's becoming increasingly clear is that the Kremlin picks up its talking points from the fringes of Western discourse rather than vice versa. They're not pulling the strings but rather trying to ride on the coattails.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,307
    Campunt said:

    In the same way the bbc is a branch of uk intelligence services
    That much of your population listen to when you aren't looking.

    We are all over Russia and know everything about you, and we tie you up in knots.

    Our spies will also beat you at baccarat every single time.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,709
    edited May 2023
    TimS said:

    That one certainly made the most of his or her half hour or so of trolling. Quite an output.

    It is actually interesting to get a look in on the lines being taken by Moscow. I assume most efforts are directed at US social media hence the right wing themes and homophobia, as well as the mention of how much the support is costing (which is a very US isolationist style argument)...

    The strategy (such as it is) seems to be twofold.
    Get some sort of result in Bakhmut that can be presented as a win, and then attempt to stalemate and hold out for a Trump presidency.

    The culture war stuff is definitely targeted at the US right - several of whose leaders are directly echoing some of the Russian lines (presented here in somewhat absurd exaggeration this morning by the lamented Campunt).

  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,596
    I know it’s the Daily Star, but today’s headline is excellent!
    https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/7772/production/_129787503_mediaitem129787502.jpg.webp
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,664

    Sadly you’ve been banned, but you’ve excelled yourself here, linking the BBC and intelligence in one sentence…
    Well Guy Burgess, the country’s most famous intelligence officer, worked for the BBC
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,933

    I know it’s the Daily Star, but today’s headline is excellent!
    https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/7772/production/_129787503_mediaitem129787502.jpg.webp

    The Star has been very good at front pages recently. The only remaining tabloid that doesn’t take itself too seriously. Great one about dunking sausage rolls this week.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,516

    I'll actually feed the troll in this case. 10,000 seems like an *incredible* amount, and it is certainly a grand claim. However, if we look back, we can see claims that Ukraine 'lost' 2,500 armoured vehicles in two years in the Donbass. Even with the larger scale of this conflict, 10,000 seems a bit of a stretch for the defenders. (1). A lot will depend on the classification of 'armoured vehicle'.

    However, Douglas MacGregor has apparently been making lots of claims during this war that have not exactly panned out. E.g, from three days after the war started:

    "The battle in eastern Ukraine is really almost over," and predicted "If [Ukraine] don't surrender in the next 24 hours, I suspect Russia will ultimately annihilate them." ".

    And a few days later:
    " "The first five days Russian forces I think frankly were too gentle. They've now corrected that. So, I would say another 10 days this should be completely over... I think the most heroic thing he could do right now is come to terms with reality. Neutralize Ukraine."

    He seems to be rather optimistically pro-Russian; but his previous quotes and predictions appear to be far off-base. I'd class him as yet another ex-military bod desperately trying to remain relevant.

    (1): https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-armored-vehicles-significantly-damaged-2-years-of-donbas-conflict/30429979.html
    (2): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_Macgregor
    Douglas Macgregor seems to have a residency at this deranged channel:

    https://www.youtube.com/@BeginYourJourneyy/videos
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,307
    Nobody does it better.

    Makes me feel sad for the rest.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,917
    Chris said:

    If only Zelensky had been willing to give Putin just one little kiss, all this could have been avoided:
    image
    I just worry that when Putin sees this picture he is going to feel even more frustrated and things will escalate even more:
    image
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,405
    Campunt said:

    I think many people who are gay in the uk are not really gay but just want to be fashionable.

    When I was growing up, if you wanted to be fashionable people would have assumed you were gay anyway. This was before David Beckham wore a sarong and the decline of the West really began.
    Can't believe I missed this guy BTW.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,709
    edited May 2023
    The Netherlands cancelled a deal to sell its remaining F-16s to Draken International, so yeah, easy to guess where they will actually end up.
    https://twitter.com/oryxspioenkop/status/1659875567712325633
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,405
    Farooq said:

    The homophobia is real. Russia is fascist in a very real sense of the word, and seeks to erase lifestyles that, in its view, do not match the virtues of tradition, conformity, and obedience. A large part of the anti-Western propaganda it churns out for domestic as well as foreign consumption is around immoral decadence harming the fabric of the pure and innocent nation.
    Thank God we don't have anyone pedalling those kinds of lines here, eh?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,307

    When I was growing up, if you wanted to be fashionable people would have assumed you were gay anyway. This was before David Beckham wore a sarong and the decline of the West really began.
    Can't believe I missed this guy BTW.
    Now, of course, it's fashionable to be seen to be vociferously opposed to homophobia and to sneer at patriotism as a bit parochial, which of course sums up @Farooq all over.

    Fortunately, we both oppose Russia's authoritarianism despite our differences.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,516
    Nigelb said:

    The strategy (such as it is) seems to be twofold.
    Get some sort of result in Bakhmut that can be presented as a win, and then attempt to stalemate and hold out for a Trump presidency.

    The culture war stuff is definitely targeted at the US right - several of whose leaders are directly echoing some of the Russian lines (presented here in somewhat absurd exaggeration this morning by the lamented Campunt).

    Its been a steady decline in ambition;

    February 2022 - 'All over in three days' - fail
    Spring 2022 - encircle eastern Ukraine - fail
    Summer 2022 - occupy Donbass - fail
    Winter 2023 - freeze Europe, destroy Ukraine's infrastructure - fail
    Summer 2023 - hold on for 18 months with infantry
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,307
    Farooq said:

    You are Alan Partridge and I claim my free pint of Directors
    I can drive to Vladivostok in my underpants eating a lot of Toblerone and you'd never know.

    At night, I'd look damn fine in black tie and beat all-comers at blackjack, vingt-et-un and poker, make superb puns and have all the Russian women throwing themselves at me begging to work for Britain.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,038
    Trudeau calls out Meloni on LGBT rights at a meeting between the Canadian and Italian PM at the G7
    https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/trudeau-calls-out-italy-on-lgbtq2s-rights-during-meeting-with-meloni-at-g7-summit-1.6405482
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,675
    Nigelb said:

    The strategy (such as it is) seems to be twofold.
    Get some sort of result in Bakhmut that can be presented as a win, and then attempt to stalemate and hold out for a Trump presidency.

    The culture war stuff is definitely targeted at the US right - several of whose leaders are directly echoing some of the Russian lines (presented here in somewhat absurd exaggeration this morning by the lamented Campunt).

    There's also still some dissent on the near-pacifist left like me, who totally dislike Putin's invasion and see it as neo-imperialism, but who aren't comfortable with how we're escalating step by step in order to get an outright win. The Guardian piece from Mariupol (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/may/18/its-like-the-ussr-residents-on-life-in-mariupol-a-year-since-russian-occupation ) is entirely pro-Ukrainian in sentiment, but concedes that a large majority of the people now living there are either pro-Russian or neutral. Are we justified in encouraging Ukraine to fight until they've overrun places like this?

    There are several counter-arguments. First, that Ukraine is indivisible, and we must encourage them to fight for every inch of its soil. Second, that the invasion must be punished by total defeat. And finally, that most of the pro-Ukrainian part of the population has simply fled - I don't think there has been explicit ethnic cleansing, but that's been the effect.

    On the first point, I don't think Ukrainian nationalism with its ongoing sympathy for Bandera et al is so wonderful that we should be assisting its most militant claims - if a segment of the country doesn't want to be run by Kyiv, we should hesitate to help kill people until they're forced to accept it. On the second point, the invasion has obviously failed in its objectives at enormous cost, and Putin won't fool anyone if he claims that a ceasefire on current lines or worse is a victory. The history of enforcing total victory (cf. WW1) isn't always encouraging in the aftermath, and we want Putin's successor to be more sensible, not more revanchist. The third point is the strongest, but I wonder if it's worth indefinitely continuing the war to insist that people who used to live in X are able to return and displace anyone now living there.

    It's not a popular view, and I hesitate to even express it (not least because I don't want to side with idiot far-right trolls), but I'd argue that there should be limits to how committed to total victory at any cost that we want to be.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,813
    Nigelb said:

    According to a joint statement issued by the G7 leaders on the eve of the summit in Hiroshima, Japan, the G7 leaders have pledged to ensure that Russia is defeated in its war against Ukraine and to support a just peace based on respect for international law.

    The G7 countries reaffirmed their commitment to provide the financial, humanitarian, military and diplomatic support Ukraine needs "for as long as necessary".

    https://twitter.com/Hromadske/status/1659871471114629120


    Troll fun aside, I think the G8 used to have a point as a forum for countries who often vehemently disagreed. With the EU being invited and now the country du jour in the form of Ukraine, it seems more of a choreographed publicity exercise, and therefore of less value.
This discussion has been closed.