Did Trump fundraise from his election lies? – politicalbetting.com

Pulpstar said:

Carnyx said:

Driver said:

Andy_JS said:

Cookie said:

Andy_JS said:

"A male GP has been prevented from donating blood to the Scottish NHS after he refused to confirm whether or not he was pregnant.

Steffen McAndrew, who works in Prestwick, South Ayrshire, said he had been turned away from a blood donation centre in nearby Ayr after he refused to answer a “bonkers” question about if he was carrying a baby."

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/04/13/scotland-nhs-male-blood-donor-turned-away-pregnant/

I'm as antiwoke as the next man, but I'll allow that that might fall into the category of a slightly lazily designed form rather than anyone pushing the trans agenda, even if they wanted to. One form for everyone is bound to create some redundancy.
That said, I was quite taken aback to be asked if I was pregnant when filling in the forms when I went for a vasectomy. (I was also asked about my sexuality, which again seemed redundant - vasectomies being pretty much by definition a procedure for heterosexual men.)

This isn't the first time it's happened. This report is from June last year.

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/male-blood-donor-turned-away-after-refusing-to-answer-whether-he-was-pregnant/

It feels like performative "being turned away", tbh - we'll no doubt see a lot more of that in 3 weeks time.

Also - gay men and heterosexual men are not mutually exclusive, hence being snipped does not in itself obviate a sexuality question. Think of the numbers of married men who have been gay on the side.

Wouldn't that be bisexuality ?

Stuartinromford said:

Leon said:

Cookie said:

Leon said:

Interestingly, if you pump the word "British" into your AI porn generator, the girl often has slightly goofy teeth - but goofy in an adorable and also sexy way, because it actually makes them more believable as images - because there is a flaw. Too many of the fake AI girls are simply too perfect to be credible

Leon, your man on the spot

That's true in real life too. Many Americans have teeth too perfect to be credible. A bit of a gap between the front teeth or an overbite can be quite attractive.

Yeah, real life American porn is often off-putting for that reason. Glossy but somehow unbelievable

AI porn knows this, and is cleverly heading for "slightly flawed", as it is supercharged by ten million bored men working hard on their prompts

Never heard it called that before.

Cookie said:

Anabobazina said:

Re: cash, someone said to me the other day, have you seen the 'new' 50pm coin?

I replied that I hadn't seen it, nor a 50p coin of any kind, old, middle-aged or new, for about a decade.

Really?

Up until 2020, I had a coin jar, which accumulated change through the year and was periodically taken to the bank - it used to get about £400 a year in change. Since the pandemic, it no longer builds up ,and I have to go out of my way from time to time to get change to keep it stocked. But I do still need coins, for reasons including, er:
- transactions with children (the tooth fairy doesn't bring plastic)
- tips in restaurants (I want my money to go to the specific waiter/waitress who provided the service)
- buskers
- parking (most car parks accept payment by app but that is a massive pain in the arse, particularly if I don't have my glasses with me)
- filling a pint glass with, then pissing in it and throwing it from on high at 15 year old girls who have a different favourite football team to me (joking - I'm not a Liverpool fan).

It's not a massive list. But cash isn't dead yet.

EDIT: All that said, upon meeting a colleague for the first time in 2 years recently, I was shocked to find he no longer even carries a wallet - just does everything on his phone. Does he not worry about running out of battery? Does he not worry about losing his phone? Does he not worry about having his phone but not his glasses? Apparently not. Not for me, Clive.

Ghedebrav said:

Cookie said:

Anabobazina said:

Re: cash, someone said to me the other day, have you seen the 'new' 50pm coin?

I replied that I hadn't seen it, nor a 50p coin of any kind, old, middle-aged or new, for about a decade.

Really?

Up until 2020, I had a coin jar, which accumulated change through the year and was periodically taken to the bank - it used to get about £400 a year in change. Since the pandemic, it no longer builds up ,and I have to go out of my way from time to time to get change to keep it stocked. But I do still need coins, for reasons including, er:
- transactions with children (the tooth fairy doesn't bring plastic)
- tips in restaurants (I want my money to go to the specific waiter/waitress who provided the service)
- buskers
- parking (most car parks accept payment by app but that is a massive pain in the arse, particularly if I don't have my glasses with me)
- filling a pint glass with, then pissing in it and throwing it from on high at 15 year old girls who have a different favourite football team to me (joking - I'm not a Liverpool fan).

It's not a massive list. But cash isn't dead yet.

Agree with this. Kids like coins and notes too, and the implicit value of a physical item is important in teaching the value of a thing, which is harder to do with digital money.

Side note, but car park apps can get in the sea, in a bin, sealed in concrete and covered in warnings to prevent future generations from ever repeating our mistakes.

kyf_100 said:

Leon said:

AI Porn Update 3

(Don't worry, I'm going out for a meeting in a minute)

There is one guy who is dedicating his life, it seems, to producing the PERFECT image of a naked British girl on a grass tennis court. You can see him honing his prompts over time. He is getting there. Eventually - if he continues on trend - he will produce a better, sexier image of a naked British girl on a grass tennis court than anything that real porn could produce, thus putting a tiny tiny niche genre of real porn out of business

At the risk of being, er, a bit graphic for the mid afternoon session, I personally find my pleasure to be, uhm, considerably enhanced when reviewing sexy pictures or videos sent to me by various partners and former partners than just some generic porn star getting her kit off.

It's as I was saying the other week - you can make the "perfect" image but it can't replace the human connection you feel with a specific person, which is why onlyfans is so profitable - people pay for the interaction with the girl, which is scarce, not the nude photo, which is not. People will choose real relations over AI porn for the same reason.

Now I am aware that the tech is good enough to take a perfectly innocent mug shot of an old flame and digitally create as much porn based on her likeness as possible, but that raises insurmountable ethical issues and probably legal ones too. But my point is that it's the connection, not the image, that most people seek.

By the way, I recently upgraded to GPT4, and while its responses are still full of caveats and dubious moral guardrails, it's strikingly similar to the way GPT3 used to be back in December, which leads me to think a lot of the 'dumbing down' of GPT3 is less its guardrails and more that the GPT3 model has been pruned to prioritise speed over depth.

The GPT4 experience is smarter and much less "beige" even with minimal prompting, although it still feels more limited than the December iteration of ChatGPT.

Leon said:

It gets still worse for the SNP

https://order-order.com/2023/04/13/snp-westminster-group-face-losing-1-million-after-auditors-quit/

Might they actually go bankrupt?

Anabobazina said:

Selebian said:

Pulpstar said:

Tres said:

Council round here has moved to phone apps entirely for parking, even though they had machines available which could take contactless payments. Bonkers.

Contactless is great. Phone apps for carparking just shouldn't be allowed. For one thing your debit card won't go out of battery for that 1% of time your phone is out of juice and you can't phone tap the contactless.

If there's contactless (hell, even chip and pin) then I'm not too bothered about what else is available. Cash for those who prefer/need that should also be provided, I think.

The frustrating thing is that any halfway decent parking app standard would be more convenient for most. Car reg(s) stored in app. Location services pinpoint the car park (or some NFC thing to swipe at worst). Choose your time and go, automatic payment. Extendable without returning to the car park. No queues. Many benefits. The current shit-show is not necessary.

Why? Would you allow people to pay in postal orders or cheques or similarly obsolete payments?

eek said:

Nigelb said:

Leon said:

It gets still worse for the SNP

https://order-order.com/2023/04/13/snp-westminster-group-face-losing-1-million-after-auditors-quit/

Might they actually go bankrupt?

How much would that matter, though ?
Presumably it would be possible to constitute a new pro-independence party. It might even do them a favour by clearing out those implicated, and distancing the new party from the mess.

The new party would lose all it's Westminster (and Scottish Parliament?) money however... Which would make funding the preparation of the next campaign a problem.

Leon said:

kyf_100 said:

Leon said:

AI Porn Update 3

(Don't worry, I'm going out for a meeting in a minute)

There is one guy who is dedicating his life, it seems, to producing the PERFECT image of a naked British girl on a grass tennis court. You can see him honing his prompts over time. He is getting there. Eventually - if he continues on trend - he will produce a better, sexier image of a naked British girl on a grass tennis court than anything that real porn could produce, thus putting a tiny tiny niche genre of real porn out of business

At the risk of being, er, a bit graphic for the mid afternoon session, I personally find my pleasure to be, uhm, considerably enhanced when reviewing sexy pictures or videos sent to me by various partners and former partners than just some generic porn star getting her kit off.

It's as I was saying the other week - you can make the "perfect" image but it can't replace the human connection you feel with a specific person, which is why onlyfans is so profitable - people pay for the interaction with the girl, which is scarce, not the nude photo, which is not. People will choose real relations over AI porn for the same reason.

Now I am aware that the tech is good enough to take a perfectly innocent mug shot of an old flame and digitally create as much porn based on her likeness as possible, but that raises insurmountable ethical issues and probably legal ones too. But my point is that it's the connection, not the image, that most people seek.

By the way, I recently upgraded to GPT4, and while its responses are still full of caveats and dubious moral guardrails, it's strikingly similar to the way GPT3 used to be back in December, which leads me to think a lot of the 'dumbing down' of GPT3 is less its guardrails and more that the GPT3 model has been pruned to prioritise speed over depth.

The GPT4 experience is smarter and much less "beige" even with minimal prompting, although it still feels more limited than the December iteration of ChatGPT.

But with real relations you risk rejection and you need the relations in the first place. There is a serious risk - indeed a near certain risk - AI porn will get so good - so perfectly curated for YOUR personal kinks and desires - people won't bother with the real thing. Then add in VR and sexbots and the rest

Plus of course AI could fake real girls on OnlyFans very very easily. Indeed there are rumours that some people are doing just that, already

Then we come to deepfake vids and pics of real girlfriends, boyfriends, models, actresses, and you can make them do anything you want. On an elephant in the snow, wearing a tam o shanter

I must investigate GPT4 more thoroughly

ManchesterKurt said:

Anabobazina said:

Selebian said:

Pulpstar said:

Tres said:

Council round here has moved to phone apps entirely for parking, even though they had machines available which could take contactless payments. Bonkers.

Contactless is great. Phone apps for carparking just shouldn't be allowed. For one thing your debit card won't go out of battery for that 1% of time your phone is out of juice and you can't phone tap the contactless.

If there's contactless (hell, even chip and pin) then I'm not too bothered about what else is available. Cash for those who prefer/need that should also be provided, I think.

The frustrating thing is that any halfway decent parking app standard would be more convenient for most. Car reg(s) stored in app. Location services pinpoint the car park (or some NFC thing to swipe at worst). Choose your time and go, automatic payment. Extendable without returning to the car park. No queues. Many benefits. The current shit-show is not necessary.

Why? Would you allow people to pay in postal orders or cheques or similarly obsolete payments?

Because there will always be a proportion of the population that require cash as they are unable to deal with more modern ways of budgeting.

My wife had a very severe stroke 5 years ago and has left her with tremendous mental issues, she cannot understand the difference between up or down, left or right, forwards or backwards. She cannot unlock doors, she cannot leave the house alone.

But she does have a level of financial independence as each month we take some money out of her bank and over the month she manages her spend as she can touch, feel and see her money.

My wife could not deal with a card (if nothing else her eye sight is so poor she cannot see the numbers on the keypads), take away cash and you take away about the only thing in her life that she has any level of independence over.

My wife may be a very extreme case, but there are probably far more people at that end of the spectrum than you would imagine.

Nigelb said:

Leon said:

kyf_100 said:

Leon said:

AI Porn Update 3

(Don't worry, I'm going out for a meeting in a minute)

There is one guy who is dedicating his life, it seems, to producing the PERFECT image of a naked British girl on a grass tennis court. You can see him honing his prompts over time. He is getting there. Eventually - if he continues on trend - he will produce a better, sexier image of a naked British girl on a grass tennis court than anything that real porn could produce, thus putting a tiny tiny niche genre of real porn out of business

At the risk of being, er, a bit graphic for the mid afternoon session, I personally find my pleasure to be, uhm, considerably enhanced when reviewing sexy pictures or videos sent to me by various partners and former partners than just some generic porn star getting her kit off.

It's as I was saying the other week - you can make the "perfect" image but it can't replace the human connection you feel with a specific person, which is why onlyfans is so profitable - people pay for the interaction with the girl, which is scarce, not the nude photo, which is not. People will choose real relations over AI porn for the same reason.

Now I am aware that the tech is good enough to take a perfectly innocent mug shot of an old flame and digitally create as much porn based on her likeness as possible, but that raises insurmountable ethical issues and probably legal ones too. But my point is that it's the connection, not the image, that most people seek.

By the way, I recently upgraded to GPT4, and while its responses are still full of caveats and dubious moral guardrails, it's strikingly similar to the way GPT3 used to be back in December, which leads me to think a lot of the 'dumbing down' of GPT3 is less its guardrails and more that the GPT3 model has been pruned to prioritise speed over depth.

The GPT4 experience is smarter and much less "beige" even with minimal prompting, although it still feels more limited than the December iteration of ChatGPT.

But with real relations you risk rejection and you need the relations in the first place. There is a serious risk - indeed a near certain risk - AI porn will get so good - so perfectly curated for YOUR personal kinks and desires - people won't bother with the real thing. Then add in VR and sexbots and the rest

Plus of course AI could fake real girls on OnlyFans very very easily. Indeed there are rumours that some people are doing just that, already

Then we come to deepfake vids and pics of real girlfriends, boyfriends, models, actresses, and you can make them do anything you want. On an elephant in the snow, wearing a tam o shanter

I must investigate GPT4 more thoroughly

Time to repost this from yesterday.

プロ驚き屋 ("a professional surprised man", New Slang)
= a person who excitedly shares state-of-the-art tools/technologies like ChatGPT on social media with hyperbole like 神/最強/ヤバすぎ, as well as with hallucination/overstatement at times based on a few cherry-picked examples
https://mobile.twitter.com/takashionary/status/1645371251236503553O

ManchesterKurt said:

Anabobazina said:

Selebian said:

Pulpstar said:

Tres said:

Council round here has moved to phone apps entirely for parking, even though they had machines available which could take contactless payments. Bonkers.

Contactless is great. Phone apps for carparking just shouldn't be allowed. For one thing your debit card won't go out of battery for that 1% of time your phone is out of juice and you can't phone tap the contactless.

If there's contactless (hell, even chip and pin) then I'm not too bothered about what else is available. Cash for those who prefer/need that should also be provided, I think.

The frustrating thing is that any halfway decent parking app standard would be more convenient for most. Car reg(s) stored in app. Location services pinpoint the car park (or some NFC thing to swipe at worst). Choose your time and go, automatic payment. Extendable without returning to the car park. No queues. Many benefits. The current shit-show is not necessary.

Why? Would you allow people to pay in postal orders or cheques or similarly obsolete payments?

Because there will always be a proportion of the population that require cash as they are unable to deal with more modern ways of budgeting.

My wife had a very severe stroke 5 years ago and has left her with tremendous mental issues, she cannot understand the difference between up or down, left or right, forwards or backwards. She cannot unlock doors, she cannot leave the house alone.

But she does have a level of financial independence as each month we take some money out of her bank and over the month she manages her spend as she can touch, feel and see her money.

My wife could not deal with a card (if nothing else her eye sight is so poor she cannot see the numbers on the keypads), take away cash and you take away about the only thing in her life that she has any level of independence over.

My wife may be a very extreme case, but there are probably far more people at that end of the spectrum than you would imagine.

eek said:

Nigelb said:

Leon said:

It gets still worse for the SNP

https://order-order.com/2023/04/13/snp-westminster-group-face-losing-1-million-after-auditors-quit/

Might they actually go bankrupt?

How much would that matter, though ?
Presumably it would be possible to constitute a new pro-independence party. It might even do them a favour by clearing out those implicated, and distancing the new party from the mess.

The new party would lose all it's Westminster (and Scottish Parliament?) money however... Which would make funding the preparation of the next campaign a problem.

Anabobazina said:

Leon said:

Anabobazina said:

Cookie said:

Anabobazina said:

Re: cash, someone said to me the other day, have you seen the 'new' 50pm coin?

I replied that I hadn't seen it, nor a 50p coin of any kind, old, middle-aged or new, for about a decade.

Really?

Up until 2020, I had a coin jar, which accumulated change through the year and was periodically taken to the bank - it used to get about £400 a year in change. Since the pandemic, it no longer builds up ,and I have to go out of my way from time to time to get change to keep it stocked. But I do still need coins, for reasons including, er:
- transactions with children (the tooth fairy doesn't bring plastic)
- tips in restaurants (I want my money to go to the specific waiter/waitress who provided the service)
- buskers
- parking (most car parks accept payment by app but that is a massive pain in the arse, particularly if I don't have my glasses with me)
- filling a pint glass with, then pissing in it and throwing it from on high at 15 year old girls who have a different favourite football team to me (joking - I'm not a Liverpool fan).

It's not a massive list. But cash isn't dead yet.

EDIT: All that said, upon meeting a colleague for the first time in 2 years recently, I was shocked to find he no longer even carries a wallet - just does everything on his phone. Does he not worry about running out of battery? Does he not worry about losing his phone? Does he not worry about having his phone but not his glasses? Apparently not. Not for me, Clive.

I haven't carried a wallet for nearly two years. Both my watch and phone make payments so what exactly is the point of carting around a load of pointless plastic and paper?

In Thailand it is still 80% cash at least. It is really quite annoying have to go back to paper wads (let alone meaningless coins). It made me realise that cash is definitely doomed. Cash is a total pain

It really is. A total timer waster –– "oh I have to go to the bank machine, where is the bank machine? Dunno, oh it's x miles away"

Absolutely ridiculous persisting with it nowadays.

ydoethur said:

Nigelb said:

eek said:

Nigelb said:

Leon said:

It gets still worse for the SNP

https://order-order.com/2023/04/13/snp-westminster-group-face-losing-1-million-after-auditors-quit/

Might they actually go bankrupt?

How much would that matter, though ?
Presumably it would be possible to constitute a new pro-independence party. It might even do them a favour by clearing out those implicated, and distancing the new party from the mess.

The new party would lose all it's Westminster (and Scottish Parliament?) money however... Which would make funding the preparation of the next campaign a problem.

True.
Short Money is a bit over a million a year for them ?

Hardly insurmountable, though.

Sell the motorhome?

ydoethur said:

Nigelb said:

eek said:

Nigelb said:

Leon said:

It gets still worse for the SNP

https://order-order.com/2023/04/13/snp-westminster-group-face-losing-1-million-after-auditors-quit/

Might they actually go bankrupt?

How much would that matter, though ?
Presumably it would be possible to constitute a new pro-independence party. It might even do them a favour by clearing out those implicated, and distancing the new party from the mess.

The new party would lose all it's Westminster (and Scottish Parliament?) money however... Which would make funding the preparation of the next campaign a problem.

True.
Short Money is a bit over a million a year for them ?

Hardly insurmountable, though.

Sell the motorhome?

ydoethur said:

Anabobazina said:

ydoethur said:

Anabobazina said:

Selebian said:

Pulpstar said:

Tres said:

Council round here has moved to phone apps entirely for parking, even though they had machines available which could take contactless payments. Bonkers.

Contactless is great. Phone apps for carparking just shouldn't be allowed. For one thing your debit card won't go out of battery for that 1% of time your phone is out of juice and you can't phone tap the contactless.

If there's contactless (hell, even chip and pin) then I'm not too bothered about what else is available. Cash for those who prefer/need that should also be provided, I think.

The frustrating thing is that any halfway decent parking app standard would be more convenient for most. Car reg(s) stored in app. Location services pinpoint the car park (or some NFC thing to swipe at worst). Choose your time and go, automatic payment. Extendable without returning to the car park. No queues. Many benefits. The current shit-show is not necessary.

Why? Would you allow people to pay in postal orders or cheques or similarly obsolete payments?

I get paid by cheque.

Just saying...

So you are the one who still uses them.

For a cheque to be received, somebody has to send it. So it's not *one* person, by definition.

I've had quite a lot of cheques recently, if only because for charities it's still simpler to double-authorise by signing a cheque twice than setting up payments online. But I also had one for over £50,000 from Barclays Bank.

Leon said:

Anabobazina said:

Leon said:

Anabobazina said:

Cookie said:

Anabobazina said:

Re: cash, someone said to me the other day, have you seen the 'new' 50pm coin?

I replied that I hadn't seen it, nor a 50p coin of any kind, old, middle-aged or new, for about a decade.

Really?

Up until 2020, I had a coin jar, which accumulated change through the year and was periodically taken to the bank - it used to get about £400 a year in change. Since the pandemic, it no longer builds up ,and I have to go out of my way from time to time to get change to keep it stocked. But I do still need coins, for reasons including, er:
- transactions with children (the tooth fairy doesn't bring plastic)
- tips in restaurants (I want my money to go to the specific waiter/waitress who provided the service)
- buskers
- parking (most car parks accept payment by app but that is a massive pain in the arse, particularly if I don't have my glasses with me)
- filling a pint glass with, then pissing in it and throwing it from on high at 15 year old girls who have a different favourite football team to me (joking - I'm not a Liverpool fan).

It's not a massive list. But cash isn't dead yet.

EDIT: All that said, upon meeting a colleague for the first time in 2 years recently, I was shocked to find he no longer even carries a wallet - just does everything on his phone. Does he not worry about running out of battery? Does he not worry about losing his phone? Does he not worry about having his phone but not his glasses? Apparently not. Not for me, Clive.

I haven't carried a wallet for nearly two years. Both my watch and phone make payments so what exactly is the point of carting around a load of pointless plastic and paper?

In Thailand it is still 80% cash at least. It is really quite annoying have to go back to paper wads (let alone meaningless coins). It made me realise that cash is definitely doomed. Cash is a total pain

It really is. A total timer waster –– "oh I have to go to the bank machine, where is the bank machine? Dunno, oh it's x miles away"

Absolutely ridiculous persisting with it nowadays.

Plus you can lose cash, it's a hassle to change it, you put it in the washing machine by mistake, and so on and so forth

Cash is doomed, the same way real gold and silver coins were doomed back in the day, and the value of notes and coins became notional

ydoethur said:

Anabobazina said:

ydoethur said:

Anabobazina said:

Selebian said:

Pulpstar said:

Tres said:

Council round here has moved to phone apps entirely for parking, even though they had machines available which could take contactless payments. Bonkers.

Contactless is great. Phone apps for carparking just shouldn't be allowed. For one thing your debit card won't go out of battery for that 1% of time your phone is out of juice and you can't phone tap the contactless.

If there's contactless (hell, even chip and pin) then I'm not too bothered about what else is available. Cash for those who prefer/need that should also be provided, I think.

The frustrating thing is that any halfway decent parking app standard would be more convenient for most. Car reg(s) stored in app. Location services pinpoint the car park (or some NFC thing to swipe at worst). Choose your time and go, automatic payment. Extendable without returning to the car park. No queues. Many benefits. The current shit-show is not necessary.

Why? Would you allow people to pay in postal orders or cheques or similarly obsolete payments?

I get paid by cheque.

Just saying...

So you are the one who still uses them.

For a cheque to be received, somebody has to send it. So it's not *one* person, by definition.

I've had quite a lot of cheques recently, if only because for charities it's still simpler to double-authorise by signing a cheque twice than setting up payments online. But I also had one for over £50,000 from Barclays Bank.

Driver said:

ManchesterKurt said:

Anabobazina said:

Selebian said:

Pulpstar said:

Tres said:

Council round here has moved to phone apps entirely for parking, even though they had machines available which could take contactless payments. Bonkers.

Contactless is great. Phone apps for carparking just shouldn't be allowed. For one thing your debit card won't go out of battery for that 1% of time your phone is out of juice and you can't phone tap the contactless.

If there's contactless (hell, even chip and pin) then I'm not too bothered about what else is available. Cash for those who prefer/need that should also be provided, I think.

The frustrating thing is that any halfway decent parking app standard would be more convenient for most. Car reg(s) stored in app. Location services pinpoint the car park (or some NFC thing to swipe at worst). Choose your time and go, automatic payment. Extendable without returning to the car park. No queues. Many benefits. The current shit-show is not necessary.

Why? Would you allow people to pay in postal orders or cheques or similarly obsolete payments?

Because there will always be a proportion of the population that require cash as they are unable to deal with more modern ways of budgeting.

My wife had a very severe stroke 5 years ago and has left her with tremendous mental issues, she cannot understand the difference between up or down, left or right, forwards or backwards. She cannot unlock doors, she cannot leave the house alone.

But she does have a level of financial independence as each month we take some money out of her bank and over the month she manages her spend as she can touch, feel and see her money.

My wife could not deal with a card (if nothing else her eye sight is so poor she cannot see the numbers on the keypads), take away cash and you take away about the only thing in her life that she has any level of independence over.

My wife may be a very extreme case, but there are probably far more people at that end of the spectrum than you would imagine.

Absolutely - I know a few people who like to use cash for budgeting because paying by card doesn't feel like spending money.

Obviously, people who don't need to worry about having month left at the end of the money can merrily tap away.

Anabobazina said:

ydoethur said:

Anabobazina said:

ydoethur said:

Anabobazina said:

Selebian said:

Pulpstar said:

Tres said:

Council round here has moved to phone apps entirely for parking, even though they had machines available which could take contactless payments. Bonkers.

Contactless is great. Phone apps for carparking just shouldn't be allowed. For one thing your debit card won't go out of battery for that 1% of time your phone is out of juice and you can't phone tap the contactless.

If there's contactless (hell, even chip and pin) then I'm not too bothered about what else is available. Cash for those who prefer/need that should also be provided, I think.

The frustrating thing is that any halfway decent parking app standard would be more convenient for most. Car reg(s) stored in app. Location services pinpoint the car park (or some NFC thing to swipe at worst). Choose your time and go, automatic payment. Extendable without returning to the car park. No queues. Many benefits. The current shit-show is not necessary.

Why? Would you allow people to pay in postal orders or cheques or similarly obsolete payments?

I get paid by cheque.

Just saying...

So you are the one who still uses them.

For a cheque to be received, somebody has to send it. So it's not *one* person, by definition.

I've had quite a lot of cheques recently, if only because for charities it's still simpler to double-authorise by signing a cheque twice than setting up payments online. But I also had one for over £50,000 from Barclays Bank.

Then Barclays are hypocrites – the retail banks want cheques abolished and as I recall almost succeeded in their bid several years ago. The government backed down at the last minute if memory serves me right.

Carnyx said:

Anabobazina said:

Leon said:

Anabobazina said:

Leon said:

Anabobazina said:

Cookie said:

Anabobazina said:

Re: cash, someone said to me the other day, have you seen the 'new' 50pm coin?

I replied that I hadn't seen it, nor a 50p coin of any kind, old, middle-aged or new, for about a decade.

Really?

Up until 2020, I had a coin jar, which accumulated change through the year and was periodically taken to the bank - it used to get about £400 a year in change. Since the pandemic, it no longer builds up ,and I have to go out of my way from time to time to get change to keep it stocked. But I do still need coins, for reasons including, er:
- transactions with children (the tooth fairy doesn't bring plastic)
- tips in restaurants (I want my money to go to the specific waiter/waitress who provided the service)
- buskers
- parking (most car parks accept payment by app but that is a massive pain in the arse, particularly if I don't have my glasses with me)
- filling a pint glass with, then pissing in it and throwing it from on high at 15 year old girls who have a different favourite football team to me (joking - I'm not a Liverpool fan).

It's not a massive list. But cash isn't dead yet.

EDIT: All that said, upon meeting a colleague for the first time in 2 years recently, I was shocked to find he no longer even carries a wallet - just does everything on his phone. Does he not worry about running out of battery? Does he not worry about losing his phone? Does he not worry about having his phone but not his glasses? Apparently not. Not for me, Clive.

I haven't carried a wallet for nearly two years. Both my watch and phone make payments so what exactly is the point of carting around a load of pointless plastic and paper?

In Thailand it is still 80% cash at least. It is really quite annoying have to go back to paper wads (let alone meaningless coins). It made me realise that cash is definitely doomed. Cash is a total pain

It really is. A total timer waster –– "oh I have to go to the bank machine, where is the bank machine? Dunno, oh it's x miles away"

Absolutely ridiculous persisting with it nowadays.

Plus you can lose cash, it's a hassle to change it, you put it in the washing machine by mistake, and so on and so forth

Cash is doomed, the same way real gold and silver coins were doomed back in the day, and the value of notes and coins became notional

Indeed. And it's risky, carrying it around. I imagine 'petty' robberies (in the absence of a more appropriate term) are much more prevalent in those countries where cash is the norm.

It's rare among my friends that anyone carries cash – as it's pointless in London.

You are beginning to risk sounding just a little like "I'm Wockney Canker and everyone else ought to do as I do because of course there is a Tube station and Oyster Card travel to wherever I want to go"

Leon said:

Anabobazina said:

Leon said:

Anabobazina said:

Leon said:

Anabobazina said:

Cookie said:

Anabobazina said:

Re: cash, someone said to me the other day, have you seen the 'new' 50pm coin?

I replied that I hadn't seen it, nor a 50p coin of any kind, old, middle-aged or new, for about a decade.

Really?

Up until 2020, I had a coin jar, which accumulated change through the year and was periodically taken to the bank - it used to get about £400 a year in change. Since the pandemic, it no longer builds up ,and I have to go out of my way from time to time to get change to keep it stocked. But I do still need coins, for reasons including, er:
- transactions with children (the tooth fairy doesn't bring plastic)
- tips in restaurants (I want my money to go to the specific waiter/waitress who provided the service)
- buskers
- parking (most car parks accept payment by app but that is a massive pain in the arse, particularly if I don't have my glasses with me)
- filling a pint glass with, then pissing in it and throwing it from on high at 15 year old girls who have a different favourite football team to me (joking - I'm not a Liverpool fan).

It's not a massive list. But cash isn't dead yet.

EDIT: All that said, upon meeting a colleague for the first time in 2 years recently, I was shocked to find he no longer even carries a wallet - just does everything on his phone. Does he not worry about running out of battery? Does he not worry about losing his phone? Does he not worry about having his phone but not his glasses? Apparently not. Not for me, Clive.

I haven't carried a wallet for nearly two years. Both my watch and phone make payments so what exactly is the point of carting around a load of pointless plastic and paper?

In Thailand it is still 80% cash at least. It is really quite annoying have to go back to paper wads (let alone meaningless coins). It made me realise that cash is definitely doomed. Cash is a total pain

It really is. A total timer waster –– "oh I have to go to the bank machine, where is the bank machine? Dunno, oh it's x miles away"

Absolutely ridiculous persisting with it nowadays.

Plus you can lose cash, it's a hassle to change it, you put it in the washing machine by mistake, and so on and so forth

Cash is doomed, the same way real gold and silver coins were doomed back in the day, and the value of notes and coins became notional

Indeed. And it's risky, carrying it around. I imagine 'petty' robberies (in the absence of a more appropriate term) are much more prevalent in those countries where cash is the norm.

It's rare among my friends that anyone carries cash – as it's pointless in London.

I've gone months in London without using cash. I always do have some, but it can stay unspent in my pocket for entire seasons

It just seems mad to believe that in twenty years we will still be reaching in purses and counting out bits of paper and circles of metal. I do sympathise with sad stories like that of @ManchesterKurt below - that's awful - but I don't see that stopping inevitable progress

Pulpstar said:

Anabobazina said:

Leon said:

Anabobazina said:

Leon said:

Anabobazina said:

Cookie said:

Anabobazina said:

Re: cash, someone said to me the other day, have you seen the 'new' 50pm coin?

I replied that I hadn't seen it, nor a 50p coin of any kind, old, middle-aged or new, for about a decade.

Really?

Up until 2020, I had a coin jar, which accumulated change through the year and was periodically taken to the bank - it used to get about £400 a year in change. Since the pandemic, it no longer builds up ,and I have to go out of my way from time to time to get change to keep it stocked. But I do still need coins, for reasons including, er:
- transactions with children (the tooth fairy doesn't bring plastic)
- tips in restaurants (I want my money to go to the specific waiter/waitress who provided the service)
- buskers
- parking (most car parks accept payment by app but that is a massive pain in the arse, particularly if I don't have my glasses with me)
- filling a pint glass with, then pissing in it and throwing it from on high at 15 year old girls who have a different favourite football team to me (joking - I'm not a Liverpool fan).

It's not a massive list. But cash isn't dead yet.

EDIT: All that said, upon meeting a colleague for the first time in 2 years recently, I was shocked to find he no longer even carries a wallet - just does everything on his phone. Does he not worry about running out of battery? Does he not worry about losing his phone? Does he not worry about having his phone but not his glasses? Apparently not. Not for me, Clive.

I haven't carried a wallet for nearly two years. Both my watch and phone make payments so what exactly is the point of carting around a load of pointless plastic and paper?

In Thailand it is still 80% cash at least. It is really quite annoying have to go back to paper wads (let alone meaningless coins). It made me realise that cash is definitely doomed. Cash is a total pain

It really is. A total timer waster –– "oh I have to go to the bank machine, where is the bank machine? Dunno, oh it's x miles away"

Absolutely ridiculous persisting with it nowadays.

Plus you can lose cash, it's a hassle to change it, you put it in the washing machine by mistake, and so on and so forth

Cash is doomed, the same way real gold and silver coins were doomed back in the day, and the value of notes and coins became notional

Indeed. And it's risky, carrying it around. I imagine 'petty' robberies (in the absence of a more appropriate term) are much more prevalent in those countries where cash is the norm.

It's rare among my friends that anyone carries cash – as it's pointless in London.

Don't muggers nick phones these days ?

Leon said:

Nigelb said:

Leon said:

It gets still worse for the SNP

https://order-order.com/2023/04/13/snp-westminster-group-face-losing-1-million-after-auditors-quit/

Might they actually go bankrupt?

How much would that matter, though ?
Presumably it would be possible to constitute a new pro-independence party. It might even do them a favour by clearing out those implicated, and distancing the new party from the mess.

Well, it would be enormously entertaining, for a start. So there's that?

Also, there would surely be a real risk of a split if they had to start a new party. It is already obvious that the Woke Nats should not be in the same party as Forbes and her supporters. A reboot would give them a chance to make the split formal

Actually, I believe that would be better for the long term prospects of indy

Pulpstar said:

Anabobazina said:

Leon said:

Anabobazina said:

Leon said:

Anabobazina said:

Cookie said:

Anabobazina said:

Re: cash, someone said to me the other day, have you seen the 'new' 50pm coin?

I replied that I hadn't seen it, nor a 50p coin of any kind, old, middle-aged or new, for about a decade.

Really?

Up until 2020, I had a coin jar, which accumulated change through the year and was periodically taken to the bank - it used to get about £400 a year in change. Since the pandemic, it no longer builds up ,and I have to go out of my way from time to time to get change to keep it stocked. But I do still need coins, for reasons including, er:
- transactions with children (the tooth fairy doesn't bring plastic)
- tips in restaurants (I want my money to go to the specific waiter/waitress who provided the service)
- buskers
- parking (most car parks accept payment by app but that is a massive pain in the arse, particularly if I don't have my glasses with me)
- filling a pint glass with, then pissing in it and throwing it from on high at 15 year old girls who have a different favourite football team to me (joking - I'm not a Liverpool fan).

It's not a massive list. But cash isn't dead yet.

EDIT: All that said, upon meeting a colleague for the first time in 2 years recently, I was shocked to find he no longer even carries a wallet - just does everything on his phone. Does he not worry about running out of battery? Does he not worry about losing his phone? Does he not worry about having his phone but not his glasses? Apparently not. Not for me, Clive.

I haven't carried a wallet for nearly two years. Both my watch and phone make payments so what exactly is the point of carting around a load of pointless plastic and paper?

In Thailand it is still 80% cash at least. It is really quite annoying have to go back to paper wads (let alone meaningless coins). It made me realise that cash is definitely doomed. Cash is a total pain

It really is. A total timer waster –– "oh I have to go to the bank machine, where is the bank machine? Dunno, oh it's x miles away"

Absolutely ridiculous persisting with it nowadays.

Plus you can lose cash, it's a hassle to change it, you put it in the washing machine by mistake, and so on and so forth

Cash is doomed, the same way real gold and silver coins were doomed back in the day, and the value of notes and coins became notional

Indeed. And it's risky, carrying it around. I imagine 'petty' robberies (in the absence of a more appropriate term) are much more prevalent in those countries where cash is the norm.

It's rare among my friends that anyone carries cash – as it's pointless in London.

Don't muggers nick phones these days ?

Anabobazina said:

Leon said:

Anabobazina said:

Leon said:

Anabobazina said:

Leon said:

Anabobazina said:

Cookie said:

Anabobazina said:

Re: cash, someone said to me the other day, have you seen the 'new' 50pm coin?

I replied that I hadn't seen it, nor a 50p coin of any kind, old, middle-aged or new, for about a decade.

Really?

Up until 2020, I had a coin jar, which accumulated change through the year and was periodically taken to the bank - it used to get about £400 a year in change. Since the pandemic, it no longer builds up ,and I have to go out of my way from time to time to get change to keep it stocked. But I do still need coins, for reasons including, er:
- transactions with children (the tooth fairy doesn't bring plastic)
- tips in restaurants (I want my money to go to the specific waiter/waitress who provided the service)
- buskers
- parking (most car parks accept payment by app but that is a massive pain in the arse, particularly if I don't have my glasses with me)
- filling a pint glass with, then pissing in it and throwing it from on high at 15 year old girls who have a different favourite football team to me (joking - I'm not a Liverpool fan).

It's not a massive list. But cash isn't dead yet.

EDIT: All that said, upon meeting a colleague for the first time in 2 years recently, I was shocked to find he no longer even carries a wallet - just does everything on his phone. Does he not worry about running out of battery? Does he not worry about losing his phone? Does he not worry about having his phone but not his glasses? Apparently not. Not for me, Clive.

I haven't carried a wallet for nearly two years. Both my watch and phone make payments so what exactly is the point of carting around a load of pointless plastic and paper?

In Thailand it is still 80% cash at least. It is really quite annoying have to go back to paper wads (let alone meaningless coins). It made me realise that cash is definitely doomed. Cash is a total pain

It really is. A total timer waster –– "oh I have to go to the bank machine, where is the bank machine? Dunno, oh it's x miles away"

Absolutely ridiculous persisting with it nowadays.

Plus you can lose cash, it's a hassle to change it, you put it in the washing machine by mistake, and so on and so forth

Cash is doomed, the same way real gold and silver coins were doomed back in the day, and the value of notes and coins became notional

Indeed. And it's risky, carrying it around. I imagine 'petty' robberies (in the absence of a more appropriate term) are much more prevalent in those countries where cash is the norm.

It's rare among my friends that anyone carries cash – as it's pointless in London.

I've gone months in London without using cash. I always do have some, but it can stay unspent in my pocket for entire seasons

It just seems mad to believe that in twenty years we will still be reaching in purses and counting out bits of paper and circles of metal. I do sympathise with sad stories like that of @ManchesterKurt below - that's awful - but I don't see that stopping inevitable progress

Agree entirely. In fact @ManchesterKurt has given an excellent if saddening counterexample – others just seem to be based on: "I like cash, dunno why".

eek said:

Pulpstar said:

Anabobazina said:

Leon said:

Anabobazina said:

Leon said:

Anabobazina said:

Cookie said:

Anabobazina said:

Re: cash, someone said to me the other day, have you seen the 'new' 50pm coin?

I replied that I hadn't seen it, nor a 50p coin of any kind, old, middle-aged or new, for about a decade.

Really?

Up until 2020, I had a coin jar, which accumulated change through the year and was periodically taken to the bank - it used to get about £400 a year in change. Since the pandemic, it no longer builds up ,and I have to go out of my way from time to time to get change to keep it stocked. But I do still need coins, for reasons including, er:
- transactions with children (the tooth fairy doesn't bring plastic)
- tips in restaurants (I want my money to go to the specific waiter/waitress who provided the service)
- buskers
- parking (most car parks accept payment by app but that is a massive pain in the arse, particularly if I don't have my glasses with me)
- filling a pint glass with, then pissing in it and throwing it from on high at 15 year old girls who have a different favourite football team to me (joking - I'm not a Liverpool fan).

It's not a massive list. But cash isn't dead yet.

EDIT: All that said, upon meeting a colleague for the first time in 2 years recently, I was shocked to find he no longer even carries a wallet - just does everything on his phone. Does he not worry about running out of battery? Does he not worry about losing his phone? Does he not worry about having his phone but not his glasses? Apparently not. Not for me, Clive.

I haven't carried a wallet for nearly two years. Both my watch and phone make payments so what exactly is the point of carting around a load of pointless plastic and paper?

In Thailand it is still 80% cash at least. It is really quite annoying have to go back to paper wads (let alone meaningless coins). It made me realise that cash is definitely doomed. Cash is a total pain

It really is. A total timer waster –– "oh I have to go to the bank machine, where is the bank machine? Dunno, oh it's x miles away"

Absolutely ridiculous persisting with it nowadays.

Plus you can lose cash, it's a hassle to change it, you put it in the washing machine by mistake, and so on and so forth

Cash is doomed, the same way real gold and silver coins were doomed back in the day, and the value of notes and coins became notional

Indeed. And it's risky, carrying it around. I imagine 'petty' robberies (in the absence of a more appropriate term) are much more prevalent in those countries where cash is the norm.

It's rare among my friends that anyone carries cash – as it's pointless in London.

Don't muggers nick phones these days ?

Yep - there was a report yesterday that 91,000 stolen in London in 2022 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-65105199?xtor=AL-72-[partner]-[bbc.news.twitter]-[headline]-[news]-[bizdev]-[isapi]&at_format=link&at_link_origin=BBCNews&at_campaign_type=owned&at_link_id=1A7A565A-D82F-11ED-B875-3CE14744363C&at_link_type=web_link&at_ptr_name=twitter&at_campaign=Social_Flow&at_bbc_team=editorial&at_medium=social

And the Police do little about it because it's hard.

NickPalmer said:

ManchesterKurt said:

Anabobazina said:

Selebian said:

Pulpstar said:

Tres said:

Council round here has moved to phone apps entirely for parking, even though they had machines available which could take contactless payments. Bonkers.

Contactless is great. Phone apps for carparking just shouldn't be allowed. For one thing your debit card won't go out of battery for that 1% of time your phone is out of juice and you can't phone tap the contactless.

If there's contactless (hell, even chip and pin) then I'm not too bothered about what else is available. Cash for those who prefer/need that should also be provided, I think.

The frustrating thing is that any halfway decent parking app standard would be more convenient for most. Car reg(s) stored in app. Location services pinpoint the car park (or some NFC thing to swipe at worst). Choose your time and go, automatic payment. Extendable without returning to the car park. No queues. Many benefits. The current shit-show is not necessary.

Why? Would you allow people to pay in postal orders or cheques or similarly obsolete payments?

Because there will always be a proportion of the population that require cash as they are unable to deal with more modern ways of budgeting.

My wife had a very severe stroke 5 years ago and has left her with tremendous mental issues, she cannot understand the difference between up or down, left or right, forwards or backwards. She cannot unlock doors, she cannot leave the house alone.

But she does have a level of financial independence as each month we take some money out of her bank and over the month she manages her spend as she can touch, feel and see her money.

My wife could not deal with a card (if nothing else her eye sight is so poor she cannot see the numbers on the keypads), take away cash and you take away about the only thing in her life that she has any level of independence over.

My wife may be a very extreme case, but there are probably far more people at that end of the spectrum than you would imagine.

Sympathies, Kurt, that sounds very rough for her (and probably for you too).

This is one of those areas where people in one cultural framework imagine that everyone else is. I know people like Anabob who use phones for everything, and people who use cash for everything. Most of my circle use contactless cards most of the time, and cash now and then. But in terms of avoiding social exclusion, it's important to maintain means of dealing with the world which are not found difficult by a large group of society, and elderly folk who can't handle smart watches (or even laptops) are still very common. When the number diminishes below 1%, it'll be reasonable to phase out cash, but for now it still makes sense to make it a requirement for any public service.

Presumably the trend to electronic transactions has reduced certain types of crime, or at least made them harder - tradesmen wanting to be paid in cash now look fishy rather than normal, though I suspect it's still quite common.

Carnyx said:

Anabobazina said:

ydoethur said:

Anabobazina said:

ydoethur said:

Anabobazina said:

Selebian said:

Pulpstar said:

Tres said:

Council round here has moved to phone apps entirely for parking, even though they had machines available which could take contactless payments. Bonkers.

Contactless is great. Phone apps for carparking just shouldn't be allowed. For one thing your debit card won't go out of battery for that 1% of time your phone is out of juice and you can't phone tap the contactless.

If there's contactless (hell, even chip and pin) then I'm not too bothered about what else is available. Cash for those who prefer/need that should also be provided, I think.

The frustrating thing is that any halfway decent parking app standard would be more convenient for most. Car reg(s) stored in app. Location services pinpoint the car park (or some NFC thing to swipe at worst). Choose your time and go, automatic payment. Extendable without returning to the car park. No queues. Many benefits. The current shit-show is not necessary.

Why? Would you allow people to pay in postal orders or cheques or similarly obsolete payments?

I get paid by cheque.

Just saying...

So you are the one who still uses them.

For a cheque to be received, somebody has to send it. So it's not *one* person, by definition.

I've had quite a lot of cheques recently, if only because for charities it's still simpler to double-authorise by signing a cheque twice than setting up payments online. But I also had one for over £50,000 from Barclays Bank.

Then Barclays are hypocrites – the retail banks want cheques abolished and as I recall almost succeeded in their bid several years ago. The government backed down at the last minute if memory serves me right.

You'd be surprised how many banks insist on sending cheques by post to close accounts. Ditto shares handling companies - I forget the technical term.

ydoethur said:

Anabobazina said:

Leon said:

Anabobazina said:

Leon said:

Anabobazina said:

Leon said:

Anabobazina said:

Cookie said:

Anabobazina said:

Re: cash, someone said to me the other day, have you seen the 'new' 50pm coin?

I replied that I hadn't seen it, nor a 50p coin of any kind, old, middle-aged or new, for about a decade.

Really?

Up until 2020, I had a coin jar, which accumulated change through the year and was periodically taken to the bank - it used to get about £400 a year in change. Since the pandemic, it no longer builds up ,and I have to go out of my way from time to time to get change to keep it stocked. But I do still need coins, for reasons including, er:
- transactions with children (the tooth fairy doesn't bring plastic)
- tips in restaurants (I want my money to go to the specific waiter/waitress who provided the service)
- buskers
- parking (most car parks accept payment by app but that is a massive pain in the arse, particularly if I don't have my glasses with me)
- filling a pint glass with, then pissing in it and throwing it from on high at 15 year old girls who have a different favourite football team to me (joking - I'm not a Liverpool fan).

It's not a massive list. But cash isn't dead yet.

EDIT: All that said, upon meeting a colleague for the first time in 2 years recently, I was shocked to find he no longer even carries a wallet - just does everything on his phone. Does he not worry about running out of battery? Does he not worry about losing his phone? Does he not worry about having his phone but not his glasses? Apparently not. Not for me, Clive.

I haven't carried a wallet for nearly two years. Both my watch and phone make payments so what exactly is the point of carting around a load of pointless plastic and paper?

In Thailand it is still 80% cash at least. It is really quite annoying have to go back to paper wads (let alone meaningless coins). It made me realise that cash is definitely doomed. Cash is a total pain

It really is. A total timer waster –– "oh I have to go to the bank machine, where is the bank machine? Dunno, oh it's x miles away"

Absolutely ridiculous persisting with it nowadays.

Plus you can lose cash, it's a hassle to change it, you put it in the washing machine by mistake, and so on and so forth

Cash is doomed, the same way real gold and silver coins were doomed back in the day, and the value of notes and coins became notional

Indeed. And it's risky, carrying it around. I imagine 'petty' robberies (in the absence of a more appropriate term) are much more prevalent in those countries where cash is the norm.

It's rare among my friends that anyone carries cash – as it's pointless in London.

I've gone months in London without using cash. I always do have some, but it can stay unspent in my pocket for entire seasons

It just seems mad to believe that in twenty years we will still be reaching in purses and counting out bits of paper and circles of metal. I do sympathise with sad stories like that of @ManchesterKurt below - that's awful - but I don't see that stopping inevitable progress

Agree entirely. In fact @ManchesterKurt has given an excellent if saddening counterexample – others just seem to be based on: "I like cash, dunno why".

I use cash, because as has been patiently explained to you before, outside Extortion City there are still lots of places that don't take cards because it's much more expensive particularly for small transactions. I know that a study put forward by the main card clearing house said otherwise but it was patently not telling the truth (as in, had forged its figures).

What might kill cash off eventually is the number of bank branches that are being closed, which will make it much more difficult to obtain and secure it. That's what's happening in say, North Wales. And that is not because of the merits or demerits of physical cash but because (1) branches being shut down, however well-used, reduces overheads dramatically and (b) banks can charge more in card transaction fees than in cash deposit fees.

London is not a typical example and should also never be used as such. It's much more crowded, much more expensive and much younger than the average town in the UK, including for things like food and transport (coins are still needed for many bus journeys round here). It's therefore less practical to use cash and the population tends to be more addicted to their phones in any case. That doesn't mean just because London is moving towards cashlessness everywhere else will as well.

Anabobazina said:

ydoethur said:

Anabobazina said:

Leon said:

Anabobazina said:

Leon said:

Anabobazina said:

Leon said:

Anabobazina said:

Cookie said:

Anabobazina said:

Re: cash, someone said to me the other day, have you seen the 'new' 50pm coin?

I replied that I hadn't seen it, nor a 50p coin of any kind, old, middle-aged or new, for about a decade.

Really?

Up until 2020, I had a coin jar, which accumulated change through the year and was periodically taken to the bank - it used to get about £400 a year in change. Since the pandemic, it no longer builds up ,and I have to go out of my way from time to time to get change to keep it stocked. But I do still need coins, for reasons including, er:
- transactions with children (the tooth fairy doesn't bring plastic)
- tips in restaurants (I want my money to go to the specific waiter/waitress who provided the service)
- buskers
- parking (most car parks accept payment by app but that is a massive pain in the arse, particularly if I don't have my glasses with me)
- filling a pint glass with, then pissing in it and throwing it from on high at 15 year old girls who have a different favourite football team to me (joking - I'm not a Liverpool fan).

It's not a massive list. But cash isn't dead yet.

EDIT: All that said, upon meeting a colleague for the first time in 2 years recently, I was shocked to find he no longer even carries a wallet - just does everything on his phone. Does he not worry about running out of battery? Does he not worry about losing his phone? Does he not worry about having his phone but not his glasses? Apparently not. Not for me, Clive.

I haven't carried a wallet for nearly two years. Both my watch and phone make payments so what exactly is the point of carting around a load of pointless plastic and paper?

In Thailand it is still 80% cash at least. It is really quite annoying have to go back to paper wads (let alone meaningless coins). It made me realise that cash is definitely doomed. Cash is a total pain

It really is. A total timer waster –– "oh I have to go to the bank machine, where is the bank machine? Dunno, oh it's x miles away"

Absolutely ridiculous persisting with it nowadays.

Plus you can lose cash, it's a hassle to change it, you put it in the washing machine by mistake, and so on and so forth

Cash is doomed, the same way real gold and silver coins were doomed back in the day, and the value of notes and coins became notional

Indeed. And it's risky, carrying it around. I imagine 'petty' robberies (in the absence of a more appropriate term) are much more prevalent in those countries where cash is the norm.

It's rare among my friends that anyone carries cash – as it's pointless in London.

I've gone months in London without using cash. I always do have some, but it can stay unspent in my pocket for entire seasons

It just seems mad to believe that in twenty years we will still be reaching in purses and counting out bits of paper and circles of metal. I do sympathise with sad stories like that of @ManchesterKurt below - that's awful - but I don't see that stopping inevitable progress

Agree entirely. In fact @ManchesterKurt has given an excellent if saddening counterexample – others just seem to be based on: "I like cash, dunno why".

I use cash, because as has been patiently explained to you before, outside Extortion City there are still lots of places that don't take cards because it's much more expensive particularly for small transactions. I know that a study put forward by the main card clearing house said otherwise but it was patently not telling the truth (as in, had forged its figures).

What might kill cash off eventually is the number of bank branches that are being closed, which will make it much more difficult to obtain and secure it. That's what's happening in say, North Wales. And that is not because of the merits or demerits of physical cash but because (1) branches being shut down, however well-used, reduces overheads dramatically and (b) banks can charge more in card transaction fees than in cash deposit fees.

London is not a typical example and should also never be used as such. It's much more crowded, much more expensive and much younger than the average town in the UK, including for things like food and transport (coins are still needed for many bus journeys round here). It's therefore less practical to use cash and the population tends to be more addicted to their phones in any case. That doesn't mean just because London is moving towards cashlessness everywhere else will as well.

Everywhere is MOVING TOWARDS cashlessness and to claim otherwise is to deny the clear evidence in front of you. As much as it might not appeal to your prejudices, I leave London regularly – particularly for hiking and biking tours in high-country remote places.

I haven't used cash for anything, anywhere in the UK, and haven't needed to. The idea that rural areas are still cash-only holdouts is an utter fantasy.

Leon said:

Anabobazina said:

ydoethur said:

Anabobazina said:

Leon said:

Anabobazina said:

Leon said:

Anabobazina said:

Leon said:

Anabobazina said:

Cookie said:

Anabobazina said:

Re: cash, someone said to me the other day, have you seen the 'new' 50pm coin?

I replied that I hadn't seen it, nor a 50p coin of any kind, old, middle-aged or new, for about a decade.

Really?

Up until 2020, I had a coin jar, which accumulated change through the year and was periodically taken to the bank - it used to get about £400 a year in change. Since the pandemic, it no longer builds up ,and I have to go out of my way from time to time to get change to keep it stocked. But I do still need coins, for reasons including, er:
- transactions with children (the tooth fairy doesn't bring plastic)
- tips in restaurants (I want my money to go to the specific waiter/waitress who provided the service)
- buskers
- parking (most car parks accept payment by app but that is a massive pain in the arse, particularly if I don't have my glasses with me)
- filling a pint glass with, then pissing in it and throwing it from on high at 15 year old girls who have a different favourite football team to me (joking - I'm not a Liverpool fan).

It's not a massive list. But cash isn't dead yet.

EDIT: All that said, upon meeting a colleague for the first time in 2 years recently, I was shocked to find he no longer even carries a wallet - just does everything on his phone. Does he not worry about running out of battery? Does he not worry about losing his phone? Does he not worry about having his phone but not his glasses? Apparently not. Not for me, Clive.

I haven't carried a wallet for nearly two years. Both my watch and phone make payments so what exactly is the point of carting around a load of pointless plastic and paper?

In Thailand it is still 80% cash at least. It is really quite annoying have to go back to paper wads (let alone meaningless coins). It made me realise that cash is definitely doomed. Cash is a total pain

It really is. A total timer waster –– "oh I have to go to the bank machine, where is the bank machine? Dunno, oh it's x miles away"

Absolutely ridiculous persisting with it nowadays.

Plus you can lose cash, it's a hassle to change it, you put it in the washing machine by mistake, and so on and so forth

Cash is doomed, the same way real gold and silver coins were doomed back in the day, and the value of notes and coins became notional

Indeed. And it's risky, carrying it around. I imagine 'petty' robberies (in the absence of a more appropriate term) are much more prevalent in those countries where cash is the norm.

It's rare among my friends that anyone carries cash – as it's pointless in London.

I've gone months in London without using cash. I always do have some, but it can stay unspent in my pocket for entire seasons

It just seems mad to believe that in twenty years we will still be reaching in purses and counting out bits of paper and circles of metal. I do sympathise with sad stories like that of @ManchesterKurt below - that's awful - but I don't see that stopping inevitable progress

Agree entirely. In fact @ManchesterKurt has given an excellent if saddening counterexample – others just seem to be based on: "I like cash, dunno why".

I use cash, because as has been patiently explained to you before, outside Extortion City there are still lots of places that don't take cards because it's much more expensive particularly for small transactions. I know that a study put forward by the main card clearing house said otherwise but it was patently not telling the truth (as in, had forged its figures).

What might kill cash off eventually is the number of bank branches that are being closed, which will make it much more difficult to obtain and secure it. That's what's happening in say, North Wales. And that is not because of the merits or demerits of physical cash but because (1) branches being shut down, however well-used, reduces overheads dramatically and (b) banks can charge more in card transaction fees than in cash deposit fees.

London is not a typical example and should also never be used as such. It's much more crowded, much more expensive and much younger than the average town in the UK, including for things like food and transport (coins are still needed for many bus journeys round here). It's therefore less practical to use cash and the population tends to be more addicted to their phones in any case. That doesn't mean just because London is moving towards cashlessness everywhere else will as well.

Everywhere is MOVING TOWARDS cashlessness and to claim otherwise is to deny the clear evidence in front of you. As much as it might not appeal to your prejudices, I leave London regularly – particularly for hiking and biking tours in high-country remote places.

I haven't used cash for anything, anywhere in the UK, and haven't needed to. The idea that rural areas are still cash-only holdouts is an utter fantasy.

I've just spent about two weeks going around Cornwall - from little villages to bigger towns. I needed cash just once - in a cafe in a remote cove - but that was only because their wifi was down so the machine would not work

It was noticeable and I remember it precisely because it seemed so odd - to everyone. Actual Cash!

Leon said:

Anabobazina said:

ydoethur said:

Anabobazina said:

Leon said:

Anabobazina said:

Leon said:

Anabobazina said:

Leon said:

Anabobazina said:

Cookie said:

Anabobazina said:

Re: cash, someone said to me the other day, have you seen the 'new' 50pm coin?

I replied that I hadn't seen it, nor a 50p coin of any kind, old, middle-aged or new, for about a decade.

Really?

Up until 2020, I had a coin jar, which accumulated change through the year and was periodically taken to the bank - it used to get about £400 a year in change. Since the pandemic, it no longer builds up ,and I have to go out of my way from time to time to get change to keep it stocked. But I do still need coins, for reasons including, er:
- transactions with children (the tooth fairy doesn't bring plastic)
- tips in restaurants (I want my money to go to the specific waiter/waitress who provided the service)
- buskers
- parking (most car parks accept payment by app but that is a massive pain in the arse, particularly if I don't have my glasses with me)
- filling a pint glass with, then pissing in it and throwing it from on high at 15 year old girls who have a different favourite football team to me (joking - I'm not a Liverpool fan).

It's not a massive list. But cash isn't dead yet.

EDIT: All that said, upon meeting a colleague for the first time in 2 years recently, I was shocked to find he no longer even carries a wallet - just does everything on his phone. Does he not worry about running out of battery? Does he not worry about losing his phone? Does he not worry about having his phone but not his glasses? Apparently not. Not for me, Clive.

I haven't carried a wallet for nearly two years. Both my watch and phone make payments so what exactly is the point of carting around a load of pointless plastic and paper?

In Thailand it is still 80% cash at least. It is really quite annoying have to go back to paper wads (let alone meaningless coins). It made me realise that cash is definitely doomed. Cash is a total pain

It really is. A total timer waster –– "oh I have to go to the bank machine, where is the bank machine? Dunno, oh it's x miles away"

Absolutely ridiculous persisting with it nowadays.

Plus you can lose cash, it's a hassle to change it, you put it in the washing machine by mistake, and so on and so forth

Cash is doomed, the same way real gold and silver coins were doomed back in the day, and the value of notes and coins became notional

Indeed. And it's risky, carrying it around. I imagine 'petty' robberies (in the absence of a more appropriate term) are much more prevalent in those countries where cash is the norm.

It's rare among my friends that anyone carries cash – as it's pointless in London.

I've gone months in London without using cash. I always do have some, but it can stay unspent in my pocket for entire seasons

It just seems mad to believe that in twenty years we will still be reaching in purses and counting out bits of paper and circles of metal. I do sympathise with sad stories like that of @ManchesterKurt below - that's awful - but I don't see that stopping inevitable progress

Agree entirely. In fact @ManchesterKurt has given an excellent if saddening counterexample – others just seem to be based on: "I like cash, dunno why".

I use cash, because as has been patiently explained to you before, outside Extortion City there are still lots of places that don't take cards because it's much more expensive particularly for small transactions. I know that a study put forward by the main card clearing house said otherwise but it was patently not telling the truth (as in, had forged its figures).

What might kill cash off eventually is the number of bank branches that are being closed, which will make it much more difficult to obtain and secure it. That's what's happening in say, North Wales. And that is not because of the merits or demerits of physical cash but because (1) branches being shut down, however well-used, reduces overheads dramatically and (b) banks can charge more in card transaction fees than in cash deposit fees.

London is not a typical example and should also never be used as such. It's much more crowded, much more expensive and much younger than the average town in the UK, including for things like food and transport (coins are still needed for many bus journeys round here). It's therefore less practical to use cash and the population tends to be more addicted to their phones in any case. That doesn't mean just because London is moving towards cashlessness everywhere else will as well.

Everywhere is MOVING TOWARDS cashlessness and to claim otherwise is to deny the clear evidence in front of you. As much as it might not appeal to your prejudices, I leave London regularly – particularly for hiking and biking tours in high-country remote places.

I haven't used cash for anything, anywhere in the UK, and haven't needed to. The idea that rural areas are still cash-only holdouts is an utter fantasy.

I've just spent about two weeks going around Cornwall - from little villages to bigger towns. I needed cash just once - in a cafe in a remote cove - but that was only because their wifi was down so the machine would not work

It was noticeable and I remember it precisely because it seemed so odd - to everyone. Actual Cash!

Andy_JS said:

Leon said:

Anabobazina said:

ydoethur said:

Anabobazina said:

Leon said:

Anabobazina said:

Leon said:

Anabobazina said:

Leon said:

Anabobazina said:

Cookie said:

Anabobazina said:

Re: cash, someone said to me the other day, have you seen the 'new' 50pm coin?

I replied that I hadn't seen it, nor a 50p coin of any kind, old, middle-aged or new, for about a decade.

Really?

Up until 2020, I had a coin jar, which accumulated change through the year and was periodically taken to the bank - it used to get about £400 a year in change. Since the pandemic, it no longer builds up ,and I have to go out of my way from time to time to get change to keep it stocked. But I do still need coins, for reasons including, er:
- transactions with children (the tooth fairy doesn't bring plastic)
- tips in restaurants (I want my money to go to the specific waiter/waitress who provided the service)
- buskers
- parking (most car parks accept payment by app but that is a massive pain in the arse, particularly if I don't have my glasses with me)
- filling a pint glass with, then pissing in it and throwing it from on high at 15 year old girls who have a different favourite football team to me (joking - I'm not a Liverpool fan).

It's not a massive list. But cash isn't dead yet.

EDIT: All that said, upon meeting a colleague for the first time in 2 years recently, I was shocked to find he no longer even carries a wallet - just does everything on his phone. Does he not worry about running out of battery? Does he not worry about losing his phone? Does he not worry about having his phone but not his glasses? Apparently not. Not for me, Clive.

I haven't carried a wallet for nearly two years. Both my watch and phone make payments so what exactly is the point of carting around a load of pointless plastic and paper?

In Thailand it is still 80% cash at least. It is really quite annoying have to go back to paper wads (let alone meaningless coins). It made me realise that cash is definitely doomed. Cash is a total pain

It really is. A total timer waster –– "oh I have to go to the bank machine, where is the bank machine? Dunno, oh it's x miles away"

Absolutely ridiculous persisting with it nowadays.

Plus you can lose cash, it's a hassle to change it, you put it in the washing machine by mistake, and so on and so forth

Cash is doomed, the same way real gold and silver coins were doomed back in the day, and the value of notes and coins became notional

Indeed. And it's risky, carrying it around. I imagine 'petty' robberies (in the absence of a more appropriate term) are much more prevalent in those countries where cash is the norm.

It's rare among my friends that anyone carries cash – as it's pointless in London.

I've gone months in London without using cash. I always do have some, but it can stay unspent in my pocket for entire seasons

It just seems mad to believe that in twenty years we will still be reaching in purses and counting out bits of paper and circles of metal. I do sympathise with sad stories like that of @ManchesterKurt below - that's awful - but I don't see that stopping inevitable progress

Agree entirely. In fact @ManchesterKurt has given an excellent if saddening counterexample – others just seem to be based on: "I like cash, dunno why".

I use cash, because as has been patiently explained to you before, outside Extortion City there are still lots of places that don't take cards because it's much more expensive particularly for small transactions. I know that a study put forward by the main card clearing house said otherwise but it was patently not telling the truth (as in, had forged its figures).

What might kill cash off eventually is the number of bank branches that are being closed, which will make it much more difficult to obtain and secure it. That's what's happening in say, North Wales. And that is not because of the merits or demerits of physical cash but because (1) branches being shut down, however well-used, reduces overheads dramatically and (b) banks can charge more in card transaction fees than in cash deposit fees.

London is not a typical example and should also never be used as such. It's much more crowded, much more expensive and much younger than the average town in the UK, including for things like food and transport (coins are still needed for many bus journeys round here). It's therefore less practical to use cash and the population tends to be more addicted to their phones in any case. That doesn't mean just because London is moving towards cashlessness everywhere else will as well.

Everywhere is MOVING TOWARDS cashlessness and to claim otherwise is to deny the clear evidence in front of you. As much as it might not appeal to your prejudices, I leave London regularly – particularly for hiking and biking tours in high-country remote places.

I haven't used cash for anything, anywhere in the UK, and haven't needed to. The idea that rural areas are still cash-only holdouts is an utter fantasy.

I've just spent about two weeks going around Cornwall - from little villages to bigger towns. I needed cash just once - in a cafe in a remote cove - but that was only because their wifi was down so the machine would not work

It was noticeable and I remember it precisely because it seemed so odd - to everyone. Actual Cash!

Do you think it's wise to abolish cash? I'm not sure it is, because it will give too much power to centralised authorities.

Andy_JS said:

Anabobazina said:

Leon said:

Anabobazina said:

ydoethur said:

Anabobazina said:

Leon said:

Anabobazina said:

Leon said:

Anabobazina said:

Leon said:

Anabobazina said:

Cookie said:

Anabobazina said:

Re: cash, someone said to me the other day, have you seen the 'new' 50pm coin?

I replied that I hadn't seen it, nor a 50p coin of any kind, old, middle-aged or new, for about a decade.

Really?

Up until 2020, I had a coin jar, which accumulated change through the year and was periodically taken to the bank - it used to get about £400 a year in change. Since the pandemic, it no longer builds up ,and I have to go out of my way from time to time to get change to keep it stocked. But I do still need coins, for reasons including, er:
- transactions with children (the tooth fairy doesn't bring plastic)
- tips in restaurants (I want my money to go to the specific waiter/waitress who provided the service)
- buskers
- parking (most car parks accept payment by app but that is a massive pain in the arse, particularly if I don't have my glasses with me)
- filling a pint glass with, then pissing in it and throwing it from on high at 15 year old girls who have a different favourite football team to me (joking - I'm not a Liverpool fan).

It's not a massive list. But cash isn't dead yet.

EDIT: All that said, upon meeting a colleague for the first time in 2 years recently, I was shocked to find he no longer even carries a wallet - just does everything on his phone. Does he not worry about running out of battery? Does he not worry about losing his phone? Does he not worry about having his phone but not his glasses? Apparently not. Not for me, Clive.

I haven't carried a wallet for nearly two years. Both my watch and phone make payments so what exactly is the point of carting around a load of pointless plastic and paper?

In Thailand it is still 80% cash at least. It is really quite annoying have to go back to paper wads (let alone meaningless coins). It made me realise that cash is definitely doomed. Cash is a total pain

It really is. A total timer waster –– "oh I have to go to the bank machine, where is the bank machine? Dunno, oh it's x miles away"

Absolutely ridiculous persisting with it nowadays.

Plus you can lose cash, it's a hassle to change it, you put it in the washing machine by mistake, and so on and so forth

Cash is doomed, the same way real gold and silver coins were doomed back in the day, and the value of notes and coins became notional

Indeed. And it's risky, carrying it around. I imagine 'petty' robberies (in the absence of a more appropriate term) are much more prevalent in those countries where cash is the norm.

It's rare among my friends that anyone carries cash – as it's pointless in London.

I've gone months in London without using cash. I always do have some, but it can stay unspent in my pocket for entire seasons

It just seems mad to believe that in twenty years we will still be reaching in purses and counting out bits of paper and circles of metal. I do sympathise with sad stories like that of @ManchesterKurt below - that's awful - but I don't see that stopping inevitable progress

Agree entirely. In fact @ManchesterKurt has given an excellent if saddening counterexample – others just seem to be based on: "I like cash, dunno why".

I use cash, because as has been patiently explained to you before, outside Extortion City there are still lots of places that don't take cards because it's much more expensive particularly for small transactions. I know that a study put forward by the main card clearing house said otherwise but it was patently not telling the truth (as in, had forged its figures).

What might kill cash off eventually is the number of bank branches that are being closed, which will make it much more difficult to obtain and secure it. That's what's happening in say, North Wales. And that is not because of the merits or demerits of physical cash but because (1) branches being shut down, however well-used, reduces overheads dramatically and (b) banks can charge more in card transaction fees than in cash deposit fees.

London is not a typical example and should also never be used as such. It's much more crowded, much more expensive and much younger than the average town in the UK, including for things like food and transport (coins are still needed for many bus journeys round here). It's therefore less practical to use cash and the population tends to be more addicted to their phones in any case. That doesn't mean just because London is moving towards cashlessness everywhere else will as well.

Everywhere is MOVING TOWARDS cashlessness and to claim otherwise is to deny the clear evidence in front of you. As much as it might not appeal to your prejudices, I leave London regularly – particularly for hiking and biking tours in high-country remote places.

I haven't used cash for anything, anywhere in the UK, and haven't needed to. The idea that rural areas are still cash-only holdouts is an utter fantasy.

I've just spent about two weeks going around Cornwall - from little villages to bigger towns. I needed cash just once - in a cafe in a remote cove - but that was only because their wifi was down so the machine would not work

It was noticeable and I remember it precisely because it seemed so odd - to everyone. Actual Cash!

Yes. There is a lot of ridiculous exaggeration going on on this thread. As if Londoners don't travel. Amazingly, my view of Great Rural Britain is not one where everyone chews on straw and accepts only burnished groats for payment.

But why are you so evangelical about getting rid of cash? It's almost like a religion with some people.

Anabobazina said:

Driver said:

Anabobazina said:

Driver said:

ManchesterKurt said:

Anabobazina said:

Selebian said:

Pulpstar said:

Tres said:

Council round here has moved to phone apps entirely for parking, even though they had machines available which could take contactless payments. Bonkers.

Contactless is great. Phone apps for carparking just shouldn't be allowed. For one thing your debit card won't go out of battery for that 1% of time your phone is out of juice and you can't phone tap the contactless.

If there's contactless (hell, even chip and pin) then I'm not too bothered about what else is available. Cash for those who prefer/need that should also be provided, I think.

The frustrating thing is that any halfway decent parking app standard would be more convenient for most. Car reg(s) stored in app. Location services pinpoint the car park (or some NFC thing to swipe at worst). Choose your time and go, automatic payment. Extendable without returning to the car park. No queues. Many benefits. The current shit-show is not necessary.

Why? Would you allow people to pay in postal orders or cheques or similarly obsolete payments?

Because there will always be a proportion of the population that require cash as they are unable to deal with more modern ways of budgeting.

My wife had a very severe stroke 5 years ago and has left her with tremendous mental issues, she cannot understand the difference between up or down, left or right, forwards or backwards. She cannot unlock doors, she cannot leave the house alone.

But she does have a level of financial independence as each month we take some money out of her bank and over the month she manages her spend as she can touch, feel and see her money.

My wife could not deal with a card (if nothing else her eye sight is so poor she cannot see the numbers on the keypads), take away cash and you take away about the only thing in her life that she has any level of independence over.

My wife may be a very extreme case, but there are probably far more people at that end of the spectrum than you would imagine.

Absolutely - I know a few people who like to use cash for budgeting because paying by card doesn't feel like spending money.

Obviously, people who don't need to worry about having month left at the end of the money can merrily tap away.

I struggle with the veracity of such anecdotes. Do they pay their monthly bills by cash, at a post office? Their TV licence? Their mortgage? Their rent? How many people as a proportion of the UK population operate only in cash – and how exactly do they string a life together?

Bills go out the day after payday, then they withdraw whatever's left in cash and budget accordingly.

You can call me a liar if you want.

I'm not calling you a liar, simply challenging the idea that they wouldn't learn to budget were cash unavailable. People adapt. Seatbelt paradox.

Anabobazina said:

Driver said:

Anabobazina said:

Driver said:

ManchesterKurt said:

Anabobazina said:

Selebian said:

Pulpstar said:

Tres said:

Council round here has moved to phone apps entirely for parking, even though they had machines available which could take contactless payments. Bonkers.

Contactless is great. Phone apps for carparking just shouldn't be allowed. For one thing your debit card won't go out of battery for that 1% of time your phone is out of juice and you can't phone tap the contactless.

If there's contactless (hell, even chip and pin) then I'm not too bothered about what else is available. Cash for those who prefer/need that should also be provided, I think.

The frustrating thing is that any halfway decent parking app standard would be more convenient for most. Car reg(s) stored in app. Location services pinpoint the car park (or some NFC thing to swipe at worst). Choose your time and go, automatic payment. Extendable without returning to the car park. No queues. Many benefits. The current shit-show is not necessary.

Why? Would you allow people to pay in postal orders or cheques or similarly obsolete payments?

Because there will always be a proportion of the population that require cash as they are unable to deal with more modern ways of budgeting.

My wife had a very severe stroke 5 years ago and has left her with tremendous mental issues, she cannot understand the difference between up or down, left or right, forwards or backwards. She cannot unlock doors, she cannot leave the house alone.

But she does have a level of financial independence as each month we take some money out of her bank and over the month she manages her spend as she can touch, feel and see her money.

My wife could not deal with a card (if nothing else her eye sight is so poor she cannot see the numbers on the keypads), take away cash and you take away about the only thing in her life that she has any level of independence over.

My wife may be a very extreme case, but there are probably far more people at that end of the spectrum than you would imagine.

Absolutely - I know a few people who like to use cash for budgeting because paying by card doesn't feel like spending money.

Obviously, people who don't need to worry about having month left at the end of the money can merrily tap away.

I struggle with the veracity of such anecdotes. Do they pay their monthly bills by cash, at a post office? Their TV licence? Their mortgage? Their rent? How many people as a proportion of the UK population operate only in cash – and how exactly do they string a life together?

Bills go out the day after payday, then they withdraw whatever's left in cash and budget accordingly.

You can call me a liar if you want.

I'm not calling you a liar, simply challenging the idea that they wouldn't learn to budget were cash unavailable. People adapt. Seatbelt paradox.

Driver said:

Anabobazina said:

Driver said:

Anabobazina said:

Driver said:

ManchesterKurt said:

Anabobazina said:

Selebian said:

Pulpstar said:

Tres said:

Council round here has moved to phone apps entirely for parking, even though they had machines available which could take contactless payments. Bonkers.

Contactless is great. Phone apps for carparking just shouldn't be allowed. For one thing your debit card won't go out of battery for that 1% of time your phone is out of juice and you can't phone tap the contactless.

If there's contactless (hell, even chip and pin) then I'm not too bothered about what else is available. Cash for those who prefer/need that should also be provided, I think.

The frustrating thing is that any halfway decent parking app standard would be more convenient for most. Car reg(s) stored in app. Location services pinpoint the car park (or some NFC thing to swipe at worst). Choose your time and go, automatic payment. Extendable without returning to the car park. No queues. Many benefits. The current shit-show is not necessary.

Why? Would you allow people to pay in postal orders or cheques or similarly obsolete payments?

Because there will always be a proportion of the population that require cash as they are unable to deal with more modern ways of budgeting.

My wife had a very severe stroke 5 years ago and has left her with tremendous mental issues, she cannot understand the difference between up or down, left or right, forwards or backwards. She cannot unlock doors, she cannot leave the house alone.

But she does have a level of financial independence as each month we take some money out of her bank and over the month she manages her spend as she can touch, feel and see her money.

My wife could not deal with a card (if nothing else her eye sight is so poor she cannot see the numbers on the keypads), take away cash and you take away about the only thing in her life that she has any level of independence over.

My wife may be a very extreme case, but there are probably far more people at that end of the spectrum than you would imagine.

Absolutely - I know a few people who like to use cash for budgeting because paying by card doesn't feel like spending money.

Obviously, people who don't need to worry about having month left at the end of the money can merrily tap away.

I struggle with the veracity of such anecdotes. Do they pay their monthly bills by cash, at a post office? Their TV licence? Their mortgage? Their rent? How many people as a proportion of the UK population operate only in cash – and how exactly do they string a life together?

Bills go out the day after payday, then they withdraw whatever's left in cash and budget accordingly.

You can call me a liar if you want.

I'm not calling you a liar, simply

...struggling with my veracity?

Anabobazina said:

Pagan2 said:

Anabobazina said:

Driver said:

Anabobazina said:

Driver said:

ManchesterKurt said:

Anabobazina said:

Selebian said:

Pulpstar said:

Tres said:

Council round here has moved to phone apps entirely for parking, even though they had machines available which could take contactless payments. Bonkers.

Contactless is great. Phone apps for carparking just shouldn't be allowed. For one thing your debit card won't go out of battery for that 1% of time your phone is out of juice and you can't phone tap the contactless.

If there's contactless (hell, even chip and pin) then I'm not too bothered about what else is available. Cash for those who prefer/need that should also be provided, I think.

The frustrating thing is that any halfway decent parking app standard would be more convenient for most. Car reg(s) stored in app. Location services pinpoint the car park (or some NFC thing to swipe at worst). Choose your time and go, automatic payment. Extendable without returning to the car park. No queues. Many benefits. The current shit-show is not necessary.

Why? Would you allow people to pay in postal orders or cheques or similarly obsolete payments?

Because there will always be a proportion of the population that require cash as they are unable to deal with more modern ways of budgeting.

My wife had a very severe stroke 5 years ago and has left her with tremendous mental issues, she cannot understand the difference between up or down, left or right, forwards or backwards. She cannot unlock doors, she cannot leave the house alone.

But she does have a level of financial independence as each month we take some money out of her bank and over the month she manages her spend as she can touch, feel and see her money.

My wife could not deal with a card (if nothing else her eye sight is so poor she cannot see the numbers on the keypads), take away cash and you take away about the only thing in her life that she has any level of independence over.

My wife may be a very extreme case, but there are probably far more people at that end of the spectrum than you would imagine.

Absolutely - I know a few people who like to use cash for budgeting because paying by card doesn't feel like spending money.

Obviously, people who don't need to worry about having month left at the end of the money can merrily tap away.

I struggle with the veracity of such anecdotes. Do they pay their monthly bills by cash, at a post office? Their TV licence? Their mortgage? Their rent? How many people as a proportion of the UK population operate only in cash – and how exactly do they string a life together?

Bills go out the day after payday, then they withdraw whatever's left in cash and budget accordingly.

You can call me a liar if you want.

I'm not calling you a liar, simply challenging the idea that they wouldn't learn to budget were cash unavailable. People adapt. Seatbelt paradox.

I am curious why you are strident on this issue, most of those saying they should be able to continue to pay cash aren't telling you that you must use cash. They are just saying they want to retain the right to use cash instead of card/phone whatever.

So if no one is saying you have to be made to use cash...why are you so fervent on stopping those that want the option to continue having the option to use cash?

It's going to become a big policy question, probably fairly soon. Cash is dying. A large and growing proportion of the population never or rarely use it. It's like analogue telly – getting the holdouts to switch to digital was vexatious for a while, but it happened. Retaining cash when a tiny proportion of the population use it will be akin to retaining analogue telly.

eek said:

Pagan2 said:

Anabobazina said:

ydoethur said:

Anabobazina said:

Leon said:

Anabobazina said:

Leon said:

Anabobazina said:

Leon said:

Anabobazina said:

Cookie said:

Anabobazina said:

Re: cash, someone said to me the other day, have you seen the 'new' 50pm coin?

I replied that I hadn't seen it, nor a 50p coin of any kind, old, middle-aged or new, for about a decade.

Really?

Up until 2020, I had a coin jar, which accumulated change through the year and was periodically taken to the bank - it used to get about £400 a year in change. Since the pandemic, it no longer builds up ,and I have to go out of my way from time to time to get change to keep it stocked. But I do still need coins, for reasons including, er:
- transactions with children (the tooth fairy doesn't bring plastic)
- tips in restaurants (I want my money to go to the specific waiter/waitress who provided the service)
- buskers
- parking (most car parks accept payment by app but that is a massive pain in the arse, particularly if I don't have my glasses with me)
- filling a pint glass with, then pissing in it and throwing it from on high at 15 year old girls who have a different favourite football team to me (joking - I'm not a Liverpool fan).

It's not a massive list. But cash isn't dead yet.

EDIT: All that said, upon meeting a colleague for the first time in 2 years recently, I was shocked to find he no longer even carries a wallet - just does everything on his phone. Does he not worry about running out of battery? Does he not worry about losing his phone? Does he not worry about having his phone but not his glasses? Apparently not. Not for me, Clive.

I haven't carried a wallet for nearly two years. Both my watch and phone make payments so what exactly is the point of carting around a load of pointless plastic and paper?

In Thailand it is still 80% cash at least. It is really quite annoying have to go back to paper wads (let alone meaningless coins). It made me realise that cash is definitely doomed. Cash is a total pain

It really is. A total timer waster –– "oh I have to go to the bank machine, where is the bank machine? Dunno, oh it's x miles away"

Absolutely ridiculous persisting with it nowadays.

Plus you can lose cash, it's a hassle to change it, you put it in the washing machine by mistake, and so on and so forth

Cash is doomed, the same way real gold and silver coins were doomed back in the day, and the value of notes and coins became notional

Indeed. And it's risky, carrying it around. I imagine 'petty' robberies (in the absence of a more appropriate term) are much more prevalent in those countries where cash is the norm.

It's rare among my friends that anyone carries cash – as it's pointless in London.

I've gone months in London without using cash. I always do have some, but it can stay unspent in my pocket for entire seasons

It just seems mad to believe that in twenty years we will still be reaching in purses and counting out bits of paper and circles of metal. I do sympathise with sad stories like that of @ManchesterKurt below - that's awful - but I don't see that stopping inevitable progress

Agree entirely. In fact @ManchesterKurt has given an excellent if saddening counterexample – others just seem to be based on: "I like cash, dunno why".

I use cash, because as has been patiently explained to you before, outside Extortion City there are still lots of places that don't take cards because it's much more expensive particularly for small transactions. I know that a study put forward by the main card clearing house said otherwise but it was patently not telling the truth (as in, had forged its figures).

What might kill cash off eventually is the number of bank branches that are being closed, which will make it much more difficult to obtain and secure it. That's what's happening in say, North Wales. And that is not because of the merits or demerits of physical cash but because (1) branches being shut down, however well-used, reduces overheads dramatically and (b) banks can charge more in card transaction fees than in cash deposit fees.

London is not a typical example and should also never be used as such. It's much more crowded, much more expensive and much younger than the average town in the UK, including for things like food and transport (coins are still needed for many bus journeys round here). It's therefore less practical to use cash and the population tends to be more addicted to their phones in any case. That doesn't mean just because London is moving towards cashlessness everywhere else will as well.

Everywhere is MOVING TOWARDS cashlessness and to claim otherwise is to deny the clear evidence in front of you. As much as it might not appeal to your prejudices, I leave London regularly – particularly for hiking and biking tours in high-country remote places.

I haven't used cash for anything, anywhere in the UK, and haven't needed to. The idea that rural areas are still cash-only holdouts is an utter fantasy.

You would have been stuck last week then here as the local shop to me was cash only for 2 days as their machine wasn't working. Only other option was to get a bus to town or go without.....luckily I pretty much use cash for all my day to day purchases so I was ok......other people expecting to be able to pay cashlessly were so out of luck......next time I will take a deckchair round and some beer and taunt them mercilessly

Comment from my corner shop yesterday - he lost £500 or so of sales when the card machine went down for an hour on Sunday.

His annoyance was that his wife didn't call him to ask how to fix it and just said cash only...

Anabobazina said:

Driver said:

ManchesterKurt said:

Anabobazina said:

Selebian said:

Pulpstar said:

Tres said:

Council round here has moved to phone apps entirely for parking, even though they had machines available which could take contactless payments. Bonkers.

Contactless is great. Phone apps for carparking just shouldn't be allowed. For one thing your debit card won't go out of battery for that 1% of time your phone is out of juice and you can't phone tap the contactless.

If there's contactless (hell, even chip and pin) then I'm not too bothered about what else is available. Cash for those who prefer/need that should also be provided, I think.

The frustrating thing is that any halfway decent parking app standard would be more convenient for most. Car reg(s) stored in app. Location services pinpoint the car park (or some NFC thing to swipe at worst). Choose your time and go, automatic payment. Extendable without returning to the car park. No queues. Many benefits. The current shit-show is not necessary.

Why? Would you allow people to pay in postal orders or cheques or similarly obsolete payments?

Because there will always be a proportion of the population that require cash as they are unable to deal with more modern ways of budgeting.

My wife had a very severe stroke 5 years ago and has left her with tremendous mental issues, she cannot understand the difference between up or down, left or right, forwards or backwards. She cannot unlock doors, she cannot leave the house alone.

But she does have a level of financial independence as each month we take some money out of her bank and over the month she manages her spend as she can touch, feel and see her money.

My wife could not deal with a card (if nothing else her eye sight is so poor she cannot see the numbers on the keypads), take away cash and you take away about the only thing in her life that she has any level of independence over.

My wife may be a very extreme case, but there are probably far more people at that end of the spectrum than you would imagine.

Absolutely - I know a few people who like to use cash for budgeting because paying by card doesn't feel like spending money.

Obviously, people who don't need to worry about having month left at the end of the money can merrily tap away.

I struggle with the veracity of such anecdotes. Do they pay their monthly bills by cash, at a post office? Their TV licence? Their mortgage? Their rent? How many people as a proportion of the UK population operate only in cash – and how exactly do they string a life together?

OldKingCole said:

J

eek said:

Pagan2 said:

Anabobazina said:

ydoethur said:

Anabobazina said:

Leon said:

Anabobazina said:

Leon said:

Anabobazina said:

Leon said:

Anabobazina said:

Cookie said:

Anabobazina said:

Re: cash, someone said to me the other day, have you seen the 'new' 50pm coin?

I replied that I hadn't seen it, nor a 50p coin of any kind, old, middle-aged or new, for about a decade.

Really?

Up until 2020, I had a coin jar, which accumulated change through the year and was periodically taken to the bank - it used to get about £400 a year in change. Since the pandemic, it no longer builds up ,and I have to go out of my way from time to time to get change to keep it stocked. But I do still need coins, for reasons including, er:
- transactions with children (the tooth fairy doesn't bring plastic)
- tips in restaurants (I want my money to go to the specific waiter/waitress who provided the service)
- buskers
- parking (most car parks accept payment by app but that is a massive pain in the arse, particularly if I don't have my glasses with me)
- filling a pint glass with, then pissing in it and throwing it from on high at 15 year old girls who have a different favourite football team to me (joking - I'm not a Liverpool fan).

It's not a massive list. But cash isn't dead yet.

EDIT: All that said, upon meeting a colleague for the first time in 2 years recently, I was shocked to find he no longer even carries a wallet - just does everything on his phone. Does he not worry about running out of battery? Does he not worry about losing his phone? Does he not worry about having his phone but not his glasses? Apparently not. Not for me, Clive.

I haven't carried a wallet for nearly two years. Both my watch and phone make payments so what exactly is the point of carting around a load of pointless plastic and paper?

In Thailand it is still 80% cash at least. It is really quite annoying have to go back to paper wads (let alone meaningless coins). It made me realise that cash is definitely doomed. Cash is a total pain

It really is. A total timer waster –– "oh I have to go to the bank machine, where is the bank machine? Dunno, oh it's x miles away"

Absolutely ridiculous persisting with it nowadays.

Plus you can lose cash, it's a hassle to change it, you put it in the washing machine by mistake, and so on and so forth

Cash is doomed, the same way real gold and silver coins were doomed back in the day, and the value of notes and coins became notional

Indeed. And it's risky, carrying it around. I imagine 'petty' robberies (in the absence of a more appropriate term) are much more prevalent in those countries where cash is the norm.

It's rare among my friends that anyone carries cash – as it's pointless in London.

I've gone months in London without using cash. I always do have some, but it can stay unspent in my pocket for entire seasons

It just seems mad to believe that in twenty years we will still be reaching in purses and counting out bits of paper and circles of metal. I do sympathise with sad stories like that of @ManchesterKurt below - that's awful - but I don't see that stopping inevitable progress

Agree entirely. In fact @ManchesterKurt has given an excellent if saddening counterexample – others just seem to be based on: "I like cash, dunno why".

I use cash, because as has been patiently explained to you before, outside Extortion City there are still lots of places that don't take cards because it's much more expensive particularly for small transactions. I know that a study put forward by the main card clearing house said otherwise but it was patently not telling the truth (as in, had forged its figures).

What might kill cash off eventually is the number of bank branches that are being closed, which will make it much more difficult to obtain and secure it. That's what's happening in say, North Wales. And that is not because of the merits or demerits of physical cash but because (1) branches being shut down, however well-used, reduces overheads dramatically and (b) banks can charge more in card transaction fees than in cash deposit fees.

London is not a typical example and should also never be used as such. It's much more crowded, much more expensive and much younger than the average town in the UK, including for things like food and transport (coins are still needed for many bus journeys round here). It's therefore less practical to use cash and the population tends to be more addicted to their phones in any case. That doesn't mean just because London is moving towards cashlessness everywhere else will as well.

Everywhere is MOVING TOWARDS cashlessness and to claim otherwise is to deny the clear evidence in front of you. As much as it might not appeal to your prejudices, I leave London regularly – particularly for hiking and biking tours in high-country remote places.

I haven't used cash for anything, anywhere in the UK, and haven't needed to. The idea that rural areas are still cash-only holdouts is an utter fantasy.

You would have been stuck last week then here as the local shop to me was cash only for 2 days as their machine wasn't working. Only other option was to get a bus to town or go without.....luckily I pretty much use cash for all my day to day purchases so I was ok......other people expecting to be able to pay cashlessly were so out of luck......next time I will take a deckchair round and some beer and taunt them mercilessly

Comment from my corner shop yesterday - he lost £500 or so of sales when the card machine went down for an hour on Sunday.

His annoyance was that his wife didn't call him to ask how to fix it and just said cash only...

Where do you have to thump one of those machines to get it working?