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Did Trump fundraise from his election lies? – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,737
edited April 2023 in General
imageDid Trump fundraise from his election lies? – politicalbetting.com

The Washington Post is reporting that federal prosecutors probing the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the U.S. Capitol have sought a wide range of Trump documents related to fundraising after the 2020 election,. They are seeking to determine if Trump or his advisers scammed donors by using false claims. about voter fraud to raise money,

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • Options
    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    Test
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,626
    Test
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,368
    Wire fraud conspiracy.
    That’s a lot of jail time if ever proven.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,368
    Another set of liars in court.

    Oops. After twice representing to the court that Rupert Murdoch has no official roll at Fox News, Fox revealed that Murdoch is “executive chair” at Fox News. The mild mannered judge was fairly steaming. He told Fox attorney “you have a credibility problem.”
    https://twitter.com/harrylitman/status/1645939168726618113
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,368
    IanB2 said:

    Test

    I hope you’re not mocking Mike there.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,368
    Nigelb said:

    Wire fraud conspiracy.
    That’s a lot of jail time if ever proven.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mail_and_wire_fraud
  • Options
    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,248
    Nigelb said:

    Another set of liars in court.

    Oops. After twice representing to the court that Rupert Murdoch has no official roll at Fox News, Fox revealed that Murdoch is “executive chair” at Fox News. The mild mannered judge was fairly steaming. He told Fox attorney “you have a credibility problem.”
    https://twitter.com/harrylitman/status/1645939168726618113

    Maybe he has an official role but no official roll.
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,153
    Presumably it wouldn't be illegal for a politician to raise funds on the basis of factually false claims in the UK?
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,665

    Nigelb said:

    Another set of liars in court.

    Oops. After twice representing to the court that Rupert Murdoch has no official roll at Fox News, Fox revealed that Murdoch is “executive chair” at Fox News. The mild mannered judge was fairly steaming. He told Fox attorney “you have a credibility problem.”
    https://twitter.com/harrylitman/status/1645939168726618113

    Maybe he has an official role but no official roll.
    Familiarity bread contempt.

    I’m amused though at the idea an organisation employing Tucker Carlson has any credibility at all.
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,767
    Trump sues former lawyer Michael Cohen for $500m
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-65256568
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,193

    Nigelb said:

    Another set of liars in court.

    Oops. After twice representing to the court that Rupert Murdoch has no official roll at Fox News, Fox revealed that Murdoch is “executive chair” at Fox News. The mild mannered judge was fairly steaming. He told Fox attorney “you have a credibility problem.”
    https://twitter.com/harrylitman/status/1645939168726618113

    Maybe he has an official role but no official roll.
    SNP Treasurer?
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,969

    Nigelb said:

    Another set of liars in court.

    Oops. After twice representing to the court that Rupert Murdoch has no official roll at Fox News, Fox revealed that Murdoch is “executive chair” at Fox News. The mild mannered judge was fairly steaming. He told Fox attorney “you have a credibility problem.”
    https://twitter.com/harrylitman/status/1645939168726618113

    Maybe he has an official role but no official roll.
    Sorry, but this argument just seems barmy to me.
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,738
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Another set of liars in court.

    Oops. After twice representing to the court that Rupert Murdoch has no official roll at Fox News, Fox revealed that Murdoch is “executive chair” at Fox News. The mild mannered judge was fairly steaming. He told Fox attorney “you have a credibility problem.”
    https://twitter.com/harrylitman/status/1645939168726618113

    Maybe he has an official role but no official roll.
    Familiarity bread contempt.

    I’m amused though at the idea an organisation employing Tucker Carlson has any credibility at all.
    Come on use your loaf. Naan can disagree with @leon that Tucker is brilliant. Ciabatta try again.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,665
    kjh said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Another set of liars in court.

    Oops. After twice representing to the court that Rupert Murdoch has no official roll at Fox News, Fox revealed that Murdoch is “executive chair” at Fox News. The mild mannered judge was fairly steaming. He told Fox attorney “you have a credibility problem.”
    https://twitter.com/harrylitman/status/1645939168726618113

    Maybe he has an official role but no official roll.
    Familiarity bread contempt.

    I’m amused though at the idea an organisation employing Tucker Carlson has any credibility at all.
    Come on use your loaf. Naan can disagree with @leon that Tucker is brilliant. Ciabatta try again.
    Just trying to sow seeds of doubt, not a whole meal.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,368
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Another set of liars in court.

    Oops. After twice representing to the court that Rupert Murdoch has no official roll at Fox News, Fox revealed that Murdoch is “executive chair” at Fox News. The mild mannered judge was fairly steaming. He told Fox attorney “you have a credibility problem.”
    https://twitter.com/harrylitman/status/1645939168726618113

    Maybe he has an official role but no official roll.
    Familiarity bread contempt.

    I’m amused though at the idea an organisation employing Tucker Carlson has any credibility at all.
    There's a difference between being a notorious liar, and lying to a judge during legal proceedings, though.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,368
    ydoethur said:

    kjh said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Another set of liars in court.

    Oops. After twice representing to the court that Rupert Murdoch has no official roll at Fox News, Fox revealed that Murdoch is “executive chair” at Fox News. The mild mannered judge was fairly steaming. He told Fox attorney “you have a credibility problem.”
    https://twitter.com/harrylitman/status/1645939168726618113

    Maybe he has an official role but no official roll.
    Familiarity bread contempt.

    I’m amused though at the idea an organisation employing Tucker Carlson has any credibility at all.
    Come on use your loaf. Naan can disagree with @leon that Tucker is brilliant. Ciabatta try again.
    Just trying to sow seeds of doubt, not a whole meal.
    Just sour dough from you.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,368

    Trump sues former lawyer Michael Cohen for $500m
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-65256568

    After the man did time for him, that seems a little ungracious.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,665
    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Another set of liars in court.

    Oops. After twice representing to the court that Rupert Murdoch has no official roll at Fox News, Fox revealed that Murdoch is “executive chair” at Fox News. The mild mannered judge was fairly steaming. He told Fox attorney “you have a credibility problem.”
    https://twitter.com/harrylitman/status/1645939168726618113

    Maybe he has an official role but no official roll.
    Familiarity bread contempt.

    I’m amused though at the idea an organisation employing Tucker Carlson has any credibility at all.
    There's a difference between being a notorious liar, and lying to a judge during legal proceedings, though.
    Well, yes, but to instance Irving again, or indeed Jeffrey Archer, the second often happens when the first appears in court.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,368
    Pentagon leaks linked to young gun enthusiast who worked at military base – report
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/apr/13/pentagon-leaks-og-source-military-base-discord-report
    The man responsible for the leak of hundreds of classified Pentagon documents is reported to be a young, racist gun enthusiast who worked on a military base, and who was seeking to impress two dozen fellow members of an internet chat group...
    ...There is increasing evidence that the leak was not an intelligence operation by a state actor aiming to discredit the US, but more likely the consequence of a Pentagon policy of granting top secret security clearances to huge numbers of service members, civilians and contractors. The number of employees and contractors in the entire US government with top secret clearance is about 1.25 million.

    OG appears to have acted as a leader on a server originally set up in 2020 on the Discord messaging platform by a small group of gun enthusiasts and gamers. The group went by several names, but most often it was known as Thug Shaker Central. Starting last year, OG is reported to have posted the documents on a channel on the server he named “Bear vs Pig”, a reference to the Ukraine war but also a viral video showing pigs fighting off a black bear.


    Bit of a problem in a country where a large number of voters, encouraged by a recent president, actively support dictatorships like Russia.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,593
    Nigelb said:

    Another set of liars in court.

    Oops. After twice representing to the court that Rupert Murdoch has no official roll at Fox News, Fox revealed that Murdoch is “executive chair” at Fox News. The mild mannered judge was fairly steaming. He told Fox attorney “you have a credibility problem.”
    https://twitter.com/harrylitman/status/1645939168726618113

    That's a little harsh. In any organisational structure how easy is it to overlook the executive chair?

    No doubt the lawyers repeated what they were told, that he did not have any "official" position but it is a bit surprising that they overlooked that.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,170
    edited April 2023
    Nigelb said:

    Trump sues former lawyer Michael Cohen for $500m
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-65256568

    After the man did time for him, that seems a little ungracious.
    Well, he’s got to cover his debts somehow!

    Good morning everybody, I see the puns are coming, thick and fast!
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,593
    Nigelb said:

    Trump sues former lawyer Michael Cohen for $500m
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-65256568

    After the man did time for him, that seems a little ungracious.
    Well yes, but client attorney privilege survives the ending of the relationship and writing a book about his client's actions and then making a career of repeating these allegations on TV is not exactly consistent with that obligation. For once, Trump may have a point.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,665
    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Trump sues former lawyer Michael Cohen for $500m
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-65256568

    After the man did time for him, that seems a little ungracious.
    Well yes, but client attorney privilege survives the ending of the relationship and writing a book about his client's actions and then making a career of repeating these allegations on TV is not exactly consistent with that obligation. For once, Trump may have a point.
    He should have hired a different attorney. A sharp, forensic, fearless legal mind like that of Rudi Giuli...ah.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,368
    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Trump sues former lawyer Michael Cohen for $500m
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-65256568

    After the man did time for him, that seems a little ungracious.
    Well yes, but client attorney privilege survives the ending of the relationship and writing a book about his client's actions and then making a career of repeating these allegations on TV is not exactly consistent with that obligation. For once, Trump may have a point.
    Not if that extends to covering up crimes.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,368
    edited April 2023
    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Trump sues former lawyer Michael Cohen for $500m
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-65256568

    After the man did time for him, that seems a little ungracious.
    Well yes, but client attorney privilege survives the ending of the relationship and writing a book about his client's actions and then making a career of repeating these allegations on TV is not exactly consistent with that obligation. For once, Trump may have a point.
    He should have hired a different attorney. A sharp, forensic, fearless legal mind like that of Rudi Giuli...ah.
    I think he's running short of those who are both willing to work for him, and have not yet been sanctioned in the course of doing so.

    Which is going to make it awkward if (as seems likely) he faces another couple of criminal proceedings.
  • Options
    NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,355
    MaxPB said:

    Hmm, lots of upwards revisions in the GDP data this morning. Think that puts us above Feb 2020.

    For the month it looks like the public sector strikes dragged growth down by 0.1-0.2% but there will be an element of catch up in March so we're on course for about 0.6% growth in Q1. Far from the doom and gloom we've been listening to from pundits and international think tanks I'd rate 0.6% growth in Q1 as fairly solid.

    My much ridiculed anecdotes seem to have been correct in predicting economic performance then.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,593
    MaxPB said:

    Hmm, lots of upwards revisions in the GDP data this morning. Think that puts us above Feb 2020.

    For the month it looks like the public sector strikes dragged growth down by 0.1-0.2% but there will be an element of catch up in March so we're on course for about 0.6% growth in Q1. Far from the doom and gloom we've been listening to from pundits and international think tanks I'd rate 0.6% growth in Q1 as fairly solid.

    The usual positive spin from the BBC: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65250170 Reported as no growth in February. But, as you say, there was clearly underlying growth again to offset the effect of public sector strikes. Its not immediately obvious where this growth is coming from when there has been such a drop in real wages but it is there.

    And finally, hopefully a sign of things to come: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65255643
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,193
    Nigelb said:

    Pentagon leaks linked to young gun enthusiast who worked at military base – report
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/apr/13/pentagon-leaks-og-source-military-base-discord-report
    The man responsible for the leak of hundreds of classified Pentagon documents is reported to be a young, racist gun enthusiast who worked on a military base, and who was seeking to impress two dozen fellow members of an internet chat group...
    ...There is increasing evidence that the leak was not an intelligence operation by a state actor aiming to discredit the US, but more likely the consequence of a Pentagon policy of granting top secret security clearances to huge numbers of service members, civilians and contractors. The number of employees and contractors in the entire US government with top secret clearance is about 1.25 million.

    OG appears to have acted as a leader on a server originally set up in 2020 on the Discord messaging platform by a small group of gun enthusiasts and gamers. The group went by several names, but most often it was known as Thug Shaker Central. Starting last year, OG is reported to have posted the documents on a channel on the server he named “Bear vs Pig”, a reference to the Ukraine war but also a viral video showing pigs fighting off a black bear.


    Bit of a problem in a country where a large number of voters, encouraged by a recent president, actively support dictatorships like Russia.

    When a million plus people know it, it doesn't even count as "Secret" let alone "Top Secret".

    In the world of secrets, it seems fewer people in the US know that Prince Harry's marriage is over...
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,593
    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Trump sues former lawyer Michael Cohen for $500m
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-65256568

    After the man did time for him, that seems a little ungracious.
    Well yes, but client attorney privilege survives the ending of the relationship and writing a book about his client's actions and then making a career of repeating these allegations on TV is not exactly consistent with that obligation. For once, Trump may have a point.
    Not if that extends to covering up crimes.
    You still can't profit from it. And he has. You can disclose the information to the relevant authorities. That is not what Cohen has done. In this country he would be struck off for this.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,193

    MaxPB said:

    Hmm, lots of upwards revisions in the GDP data this morning. Think that puts us above Feb 2020.

    For the month it looks like the public sector strikes dragged growth down by 0.1-0.2% but there will be an element of catch up in March so we're on course for about 0.6% growth in Q1. Far from the doom and gloom we've been listening to from pundits and international think tanks I'd rate 0.6% growth in Q1 as fairly solid.

    My much ridiculed anecdotes seem to have been correct in predicting economic performance then.
    My anecdotes (FWIW) suggest that a large number of people during lockdown took the furlough money - but carried on working, tax free, cash-in-hand. Some of that money is fuelling the economy now.
  • Options
    FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,073

    MaxPB said:

    Hmm, lots of upwards revisions in the GDP data this morning. Think that puts us above Feb 2020.

    For the month it looks like the public sector strikes dragged growth down by 0.1-0.2% but there will be an element of catch up in March so we're on course for about 0.6% growth in Q1. Far from the doom and gloom we've been listening to from pundits and international think tanks I'd rate 0.6% growth in Q1 as fairly solid.

    My much ridiculed anecdotes seem to have been correct in predicting economic performance then.
    But, but, but …… PB Tories are always saying that the public sector is a drain on the economy, not a agent of growth!
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,020
    MaxPB said:

    Hmm, lots of upwards revisions in the GDP data this morning. Think that puts us above Feb 2020.

    For the month it looks like the public sector strikes dragged growth down by 0.1-0.2% but there will be an element of catch up in March so we're on course for about 0.6% growth in Q1. Far from the doom and gloom we've been listening to from pundits and international think tanks I'd rate 0.6% growth in Q1 as fairly solid.

    So, can it be, that the IMF were … wrong?

    In fact, we are now above Feb. 2020, indeed we went above Feb .2020 in May of last year.

    No one should take much notice of initial GDP estimates, for it is a law as immutable as that of the Medes and the Persians, that GDP gets revised upwards.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,593

    MaxPB said:

    Hmm, lots of upwards revisions in the GDP data this morning. Think that puts us above Feb 2020.

    For the month it looks like the public sector strikes dragged growth down by 0.1-0.2% but there will be an element of catch up in March so we're on course for about 0.6% growth in Q1. Far from the doom and gloom we've been listening to from pundits and international think tanks I'd rate 0.6% growth in Q1 as fairly solid.

    My much ridiculed anecdotes seem to have been correct in predicting economic performance then.
    But, but, but …… PB Tories are always saying that the public sector is a drain on the economy, not a agent of growth!
    And February proves it. But for their reluctance to turn up for work there would have been solid growth in February. 😉
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,665
    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    Hmm, lots of upwards revisions in the GDP data this morning. Think that puts us above Feb 2020.

    For the month it looks like the public sector strikes dragged growth down by 0.1-0.2% but there will be an element of catch up in March so we're on course for about 0.6% growth in Q1. Far from the doom and gloom we've been listening to from pundits and international think tanks I'd rate 0.6% growth in Q1 as fairly solid.

    My much ridiculed anecdotes seem to have been correct in predicting economic performance then.
    But, but, but …… PB Tories are always saying that the public sector is a drain on the economy, not a agent of growth!
    And February proves it. But for their reluctance to turn up for work there would have been solid growth in February. 😉
    So government spending on say, economically viable salaries promotes growth? :wink:
  • Options
    Some odd comments from PB Tories this morning. Had no idea that stagflation was something to celebrate.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,665

    Some odd comments from PB Tories this morning. Had no idea that stagflation was something to celebrate.

    It's just stag, not two deer.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,193
    ydoethur said:

    Some odd comments from PB Tories this morning. Had no idea that stagflation was something to celebrate.

    It's just stag, not two deer.
    Doe!
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,665

    ydoethur said:

    Some odd comments from PB Tories this morning. Had no idea that stagflation was something to celebrate.

    It's just stag, not two deer.
    Doe!
    How can I fallow that?
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,593
    Sean_F said:

    MaxPB said:

    Hmm, lots of upwards revisions in the GDP data this morning. Think that puts us above Feb 2020.

    For the month it looks like the public sector strikes dragged growth down by 0.1-0.2% but there will be an element of catch up in March so we're on course for about 0.6% growth in Q1. Far from the doom and gloom we've been listening to from pundits and international think tanks I'd rate 0.6% growth in Q1 as fairly solid.

    So, can it be, that the IMF were … wrong?

    In fact, we are now above Feb. 2020, indeed we went above Feb .2020 in May of last year.

    No one should take much notice of initial GDP estimates, for it is a law as immutable as that of the Medes and the Persians, that GDP gets revised upwards.
    Its remarkable how almost no one has picked up that story given that it has been a (non-existent) stick with which to beat ourselves for so long.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,193
    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Trump sues former lawyer Michael Cohen for $500m
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-65256568

    After the man did time for him, that seems a little ungracious.
    Well yes, but client attorney privilege survives the ending of the relationship and writing a book about his client's actions and then making a career of repeating these allegations on TV is not exactly consistent with that obligation. For once, Trump may have a point.
    Not if that extends to covering up crimes.
    You still can't profit from it. And he has. You can disclose the information to the relevant authorities. That is not what Cohen has done. In this country he would be struck off for this.
    You don't think his jail time might have got there first?
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,593
    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    Hmm, lots of upwards revisions in the GDP data this morning. Think that puts us above Feb 2020.

    For the month it looks like the public sector strikes dragged growth down by 0.1-0.2% but there will be an element of catch up in March so we're on course for about 0.6% growth in Q1. Far from the doom and gloom we've been listening to from pundits and international think tanks I'd rate 0.6% growth in Q1 as fairly solid.

    My much ridiculed anecdotes seem to have been correct in predicting economic performance then.
    But, but, but …… PB Tories are always saying that the public sector is a drain on the economy, not a agent of growth!
    And February proves it. But for their reluctance to turn up for work there would have been solid growth in February. 😉
    So government spending on say, economically viable salaries promotes growth? :wink:
    Of course it does. But the problem is what is economically viable at any given point in time. We are still living on a lot of borrowed money and the statistics this morning show that the trade deficit grew even further in the last quarter suggesting that we have seriously excess demand here in the UK.
  • Options
    NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,355

    MaxPB said:

    Hmm, lots of upwards revisions in the GDP data this morning. Think that puts us above Feb 2020.

    For the month it looks like the public sector strikes dragged growth down by 0.1-0.2% but there will be an element of catch up in March so we're on course for about 0.6% growth in Q1. Far from the doom and gloom we've been listening to from pundits and international think tanks I'd rate 0.6% growth in Q1 as fairly solid.

    My much ridiculed anecdotes seem to have been correct in predicting economic performance then.
    My anecdotes (FWIW) suggest that a large number of people during lockdown took the furlough money - but carried on working, tax free, cash-in-hand. Some of that money is fuelling the economy now.
    I would also say the jobs market remains very strong. We advertied for a Contracts Manager last month at £60k per year plus car. We got zero applications.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,593

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Trump sues former lawyer Michael Cohen for $500m
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-65256568

    After the man did time for him, that seems a little ungracious.
    Well yes, but client attorney privilege survives the ending of the relationship and writing a book about his client's actions and then making a career of repeating these allegations on TV is not exactly consistent with that obligation. For once, Trump may have a point.
    Not if that extends to covering up crimes.
    You still can't profit from it. And he has. You can disclose the information to the relevant authorities. That is not what Cohen has done. In this country he would be struck off for this.
    You don't think his jail time might have got there first?
    Again it would in this country but the US seems the wild west on professional regulation.
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,807
    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    Hmm, lots of upwards revisions in the GDP data this morning. Think that puts us above Feb 2020.

    For the month it looks like the public sector strikes dragged growth down by 0.1-0.2% but there will be an element of catch up in March so we're on course for about 0.6% growth in Q1. Far from the doom and gloom we've been listening to from pundits and international think tanks I'd rate 0.6% growth in Q1 as fairly solid.

    My much ridiculed anecdotes seem to have been correct in predicting economic performance then.
    But, but, but …… PB Tories are always saying that the public sector is a drain on the economy, not a agent of growth!
    And February proves it. But for their reluctance to turn up for work there would have been solid growth in February. 😉
    So government spending on say, economically viable salaries promotes growth? :wink:
    Of course it does. But the problem is what is economically viable at any given point in time. We are still living on a lot of borrowed money and the statistics this morning show that the trade deficit grew even further in the last quarter suggesting that we have seriously excess demand here in the UK.
    Id say thats more a case of we dont make enough of what we consume.
  • Options
    TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,733
    Nigelb said:

    Trump sues former lawyer Michael Cohen for $500m
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-65256568

    After the man did time for him, that seems a little ungracious.
    I presume Trump has simply said to his (current) lawyer, "Sue Cohen for $500m" and his lawyer has dutifully complied.

    Cohen won't have $500m, nor insurance that would cover it. Trump won't have any support for that figure as a loss. Trump won't even expect to get it, or even expect to win.

    It's simply a way to keep Trump in the news cycle, and as big a number as possible does that.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,593

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    Hmm, lots of upwards revisions in the GDP data this morning. Think that puts us above Feb 2020.

    For the month it looks like the public sector strikes dragged growth down by 0.1-0.2% but there will be an element of catch up in March so we're on course for about 0.6% growth in Q1. Far from the doom and gloom we've been listening to from pundits and international think tanks I'd rate 0.6% growth in Q1 as fairly solid.

    My much ridiculed anecdotes seem to have been correct in predicting economic performance then.
    But, but, but …… PB Tories are always saying that the public sector is a drain on the economy, not a agent of growth!
    And February proves it. But for their reluctance to turn up for work there would have been solid growth in February. 😉
    So government spending on say, economically viable salaries promotes growth? :wink:
    Of course it does. But the problem is what is economically viable at any given point in time. We are still living on a lot of borrowed money and the statistics this morning show that the trade deficit grew even further in the last quarter suggesting that we have seriously excess demand here in the UK.
    Id say thats more a case of we dont make enough of what we consume.
    I agree but what we make determines the level of consumption we can afford, or it should. We seem more focused on what we are entitled to.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,020

    MaxPB said:

    Hmm, lots of upwards revisions in the GDP data this morning. Think that puts us above Feb 2020.

    For the month it looks like the public sector strikes dragged growth down by 0.1-0.2% but there will be an element of catch up in March so we're on course for about 0.6% growth in Q1. Far from the doom and gloom we've been listening to from pundits and international think tanks I'd rate 0.6% growth in Q1 as fairly solid.

    My much ridiculed anecdotes seem to have been correct in predicting economic performance then.
    I’ve never been busier than in recent months, although completing property transactions has been tricky.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,020
    edited April 2023
    Nigelb said:

    Trump sues former lawyer Michael Cohen for $500m
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-65256568

    After the man did time for him, that seems a little ungracious.
    Trump does not believe in loyalty to anyone other than himself.

    In a way that’s a good thing, because it renders him ineffectual.

    Screwtape put it thus: “To be truly and effectively wicked, a man needs some virtue.”

    Wicked people who are courageous and who reward loyal followers, are a hell of a lot more dangerous than people like Trump.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,193
    There will always be a core of Trump supporters for whom he is only sinned against. One wonders how many of them were regular voters before, or in Trump found someone to vent their anger at democracy. They certainly seem to be over-represented in the Make Russia Great Again element. In place of Reagan Democrats, we now have Putin Republicans.

    But it is getting ever harder to find Trump apologists. It might have had a mischievous fun to ra-ra-ra for him when he was sticking it to the Man. But he is the Man; the grifter who has worked the gullible in the room for his own advancement - and fuck America in the process. His every pronouncement now further lifts the veil on a mean spirited, thin-skinned, self-interested disaster for the USA. Gradually, they are seeing this.

    If it weren't for the cult of celebrity that the US worships, he would be an embarrassed footnote in Presidential history. But he'll get there.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,986

    Nigelb said:

    Pentagon leaks linked to young gun enthusiast who worked at military base – report
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/apr/13/pentagon-leaks-og-source-military-base-discord-report
    The man responsible for the leak of hundreds of classified Pentagon documents is reported to be a young, racist gun enthusiast who worked on a military base, and who was seeking to impress two dozen fellow members of an internet chat group...
    ...There is increasing evidence that the leak was not an intelligence operation by a state actor aiming to discredit the US, but more likely the consequence of a Pentagon policy of granting top secret security clearances to huge numbers of service members, civilians and contractors. The number of employees and contractors in the entire US government with top secret clearance is about 1.25 million.

    OG appears to have acted as a leader on a server originally set up in 2020 on the Discord messaging platform by a small group of gun enthusiasts and gamers. The group went by several names, but most often it was known as Thug Shaker Central. Starting last year, OG is reported to have posted the documents on a channel on the server he named “Bear vs Pig”, a reference to the Ukraine war but also a viral video showing pigs fighting off a black bear.


    Bit of a problem in a country where a large number of voters, encouraged by a recent president, actively support dictatorships like Russia.

    When a million plus people know it, it doesn't even count as "Secret" let alone "Top Secret".

    In the world of secrets, it seems fewer people in the US know that Prince Harry's marriage is over...
    Has anyone told Prince Harry?
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,193
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Some odd comments from PB Tories this morning. Had no idea that stagflation was something to celebrate.

    It's just stag, not two deer.
    Doe!
    How can I fallow that?
    Don't. Roe backwards....
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,439
    edited April 2023

    Some odd comments from PB Tories this morning. Had no idea that stagflation was something to celebrate.

    There is something of the air of a 5ft 7in shortarse loudly proclaiming that he is in fact 5ft 7&1/4in tall.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,339

    There will always be a core of Trump supporters for whom he is only sinned against. One wonders how many of them were regular voters before, or in Trump found someone to vent their anger at democracy. They certainly seem to be over-represented in the Make Russia Great Again element. In place of Reagan Democrats, we now have Putin Republicans.

    But it is getting ever harder to find Trump apologists. It might have had a mischievous fun to ra-ra-ra for him when he was sticking it to the Man. But he is the Man; the grifter who has worked the gullible in the room for his own advancement - and fuck America in the process. His every pronouncement now further lifts the veil on a mean spirited, thin-skinned, self-interested disaster for the USA. Gradually, they are seeing this.

    If it weren't for the cult of celebrity that the US worships, he would be an embarrassed footnote in Presidential history. But he'll get there.

    Not all Republicans are Putin Republicans. Former VP Pence for example takes a harder line on Putin even than President Biden does let alone Trump or DeSantis.

    In 2012 too remember President Obama dismissed the warnings of his opponent, Republican nominee Mitt Romney about Putin as scaremongering
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,684
    DavidL said:

    Sean_F said:

    MaxPB said:

    Hmm, lots of upwards revisions in the GDP data this morning. Think that puts us above Feb 2020.

    For the month it looks like the public sector strikes dragged growth down by 0.1-0.2% but there will be an element of catch up in March so we're on course for about 0.6% growth in Q1. Far from the doom and gloom we've been listening to from pundits and international think tanks I'd rate 0.6% growth in Q1 as fairly solid.

    So, can it be, that the IMF were … wrong?

    In fact, we are now above Feb. 2020, indeed we went above Feb .2020 in May of last year.

    No one should take much notice of initial GDP estimates, for it is a law as immutable as that of the Medes and the Persians, that GDP gets revised upwards.
    Its remarkable how almost no one has picked up that story given that it has been a (non-existent) stick with which to beat ourselves for so long.
    It isn't amazing really. It's not a doom and gloom story so expect it to be ignored.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,665

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Some odd comments from PB Tories this morning. Had no idea that stagflation was something to celebrate.

    It's just stag, not two deer.
    Doe!
    How can I fallow that?
    Don't. Roe backwards....
    That comment is no elk.
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,940
    Cost of 4 pints of milk down 10p to £1.55 at Tesco this morning. Kenco up from £6 to £7 at Sainsburys. I sense a Nectar price offer is imminent on that
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,199

    Some odd comments from PB Tories this morning. Had no idea that stagflation was something to celebrate.

    There is something of the air of a 5ft 7in shortarse loudly proclaiming that he is in fact 5ft 7&1/4in tall.
    And 4 3/10 inches long ...
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,339
    Macron taking the Gaullist line of neutrality between Anglo-Saxon world and Communist China there, no doubt also still annoyed that AuUKUS left out France
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,139
    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Another set of liars in court.

    Oops. After twice representing to the court that Rupert Murdoch has no official roll at Fox News, Fox revealed that Murdoch is “executive chair” at Fox News. The mild mannered judge was fairly steaming. He told Fox attorney “you have a credibility problem.”
    https://twitter.com/harrylitman/status/1645939168726618113

    Maybe he has an official role but no official roll.
    Familiarity bread contempt.

    I’m amused though at the idea an organisation employing Tucker Carlson has any credibility at all.
    There's a difference between being a notorious liar, and lying to a judge during legal proceedings, though.
    Yes, even Trump has usually been more careful about what his lawyers claim in court versus what he has them publicly claim. The Fox misrepresentation is weird though. Having read the summary judgement ruling Fox spent a lot of time arguing that the Murdochs have essentially nothing to do with Fox News content even though they run the overall company, attended many of the relevant meetings, were in daily communication about it, and issuing instructions about it.
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,940
    Sainsburys going bold with their Nectar price offer.24 cans of Coke Zero for £5 Not been anywhere near that kind of price since Christmas week 2020
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,368
    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Trump sues former lawyer Michael Cohen for $500m
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-65256568

    After the man did time for him, that seems a little ungracious.
    Well yes, but client attorney privilege survives the ending of the relationship and writing a book about his client's actions and then making a career of repeating these allegations on TV is not exactly consistent with that obligation. For once, Trump may have a point.
    Not if that extends to covering up crimes.
    You still can't profit from it. And he has. You can disclose the information to the relevant authorities. That is not what Cohen has done. In this country he would be struck off for this.
    Surely he would be anyway given the criminal conviction ?
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,139
    Sean_F said:

    Nigelb said:

    Trump sues former lawyer Michael Cohen for $500m
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-65256568

    After the man did time for him, that seems a little ungracious.
    Trump does not believe in loyalty to anyone other than himself.

    In a way that’s a good thing, because it renders him ineffectual.

    Screwtape put it thus: “To be truly and effectively wicked, a man needs some virtue.”

    Wicked people who are courageous and who reward loyal followers, are a hell of a lot more dangerous than people like Trump.
    What's remarkable is despite proving himself a million times over people still seem surprised and willingly go under the bus for him.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,368

    Nigelb said:

    Trump sues former lawyer Michael Cohen for $500m
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-65256568

    After the man did time for him, that seems a little ungracious.
    I presume Trump has simply said to his (current) lawyer, "Sue Cohen for $500m" and his lawyer has dutifully complied.

    Cohen won't have $500m, nor insurance that would cover it. Trump won't have any support for that figure as a loss. Trump won't even expect to get it, or even expect to win.

    It's simply a way to keep Trump in the news cycle, and as big a number as possible does that.
    Makes his "cooling off time" request in another lawsuit look pretty sillly.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,439
    Carnyx said:

    Some odd comments from PB Tories this morning. Had no idea that stagflation was something to celebrate.

    There is something of the air of a 5ft 7in shortarse loudly proclaiming that he is in fact 5ft 7&1/4in tall.
    And 4 3/10 inches long ...
    It always sound bigger in Imperial.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,139

    Nigelb said:

    Trump sues former lawyer Michael Cohen for $500m
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-65256568

    After the man did time for him, that seems a little ungracious.
    I presume Trump has simply said to his (current) lawyer, "Sue Cohen for $500m" and his lawyer has dutifully complied.

    Cohen won't have $500m, nor insurance that would cover it. Trump won't have any support for that figure as a loss. Trump won't even expect to get it, or even expect to win.

    It's simply a way to keep Trump in the news cycle, and as big a number as possible does that.
    In slight fairness (notwithstanding his perennial use of courts to try to punish people, which has seen some of his lawyers sanctioned) it is pretty common to go for eye catching big claims.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,368
    Sean_F said:

    MaxPB said:

    Hmm, lots of upwards revisions in the GDP data this morning. Think that puts us above Feb 2020.

    For the month it looks like the public sector strikes dragged growth down by 0.1-0.2% but there will be an element of catch up in March so we're on course for about 0.6% growth in Q1. Far from the doom and gloom we've been listening to from pundits and international think tanks I'd rate 0.6% growth in Q1 as fairly solid.

    So, can it be, that the IMF were … wrong?

    In fact, we are now above Feb. 2020, indeed we went above Feb .2020 in May of last year.

    No one should take much notice of initial GDP estimates, for it is a law as immutable as that of the Medes and the Persians...
    Aren't both extinct ?

  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,593
    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Trump sues former lawyer Michael Cohen for $500m
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-65256568

    After the man did time for him, that seems a little ungracious.
    Well yes, but client attorney privilege survives the ending of the relationship and writing a book about his client's actions and then making a career of repeating these allegations on TV is not exactly consistent with that obligation. For once, Trump may have a point.
    Not if that extends to covering up crimes.
    You still can't profit from it. And he has. You can disclose the information to the relevant authorities. That is not what Cohen has done. In this country he would be struck off for this.
    Surely he would be anyway given the criminal conviction ?
    He was disbarred in New York in 2019, presumably because of the conviction but what that effect is nationwide is I am unsure. But even as a disbarred lawyer the fiduciary duties remain to his client.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,170
    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Another set of liars in court.

    Oops. After twice representing to the court that Rupert Murdoch has no official roll at Fox News, Fox revealed that Murdoch is “executive chair” at Fox News. The mild mannered judge was fairly steaming. He told Fox attorney “you have a credibility problem.”
    https://twitter.com/harrylitman/status/1645939168726618113

    Maybe he has an official role but no official roll.
    Familiarity bread contempt.

    I’m amused though at the idea an organisation employing Tucker Carlson has any credibility at all.
    There's a difference between being a notorious liar, and lying to a judge during legal proceedings, though.
    Yes, even Trump has usually been more careful about what his lawyers claim in court versus what he has them publicly claim. The Fox misrepresentation is weird though. Having read the summary judgement ruling Fox spent a lot of time arguing that the Murdochs have essentially nothing to do with Fox News content even though they run the overall company, attended many of the relevant meetings, were in daily communication about it, and issuing instructions about it.
    I don’t think the Murdoch’s themselves have denied their involvement.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,139
    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Trump sues former lawyer Michael Cohen for $500m
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-65256568

    After the man did time for him, that seems a little ungracious.
    Well yes, but client attorney privilege survives the ending of the relationship and writing a book about his client's actions and then making a career of repeating these allegations on TV is not exactly consistent with that obligation. For once, Trump may have a point.
    He should have hired a different attorney. A sharp, forensic, fearless legal mind like that of Rudi Giuli...ah.
    I think he's running short of those who are both willing to work for him, and have not yet been sanctioned in the course of doing so.

    Which is going to make it awkward if (as seems likely) he faces another couple of criminal proceedings.
    He may find it easier to get decent attorneys for that, as arguing criminal defences for various rather technical charges is probably easier and less professionally compromising than his pursuit of nonsense civil claims and the like.
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,807
    edited April 2023
    HYUFD said:

    Macron taking the Gaullist line of neutrality between Anglo-Saxon world and Communist China there, no doubt also still annoyed that AuUKUS left out France
    Macron just needs the cover of communist China to divert from the communists at home who ara about to conduct a guerilla war with him over pensions.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,593
    HYUFD said:

    Macron taking the Gaullist line of neutrality between Anglo-Saxon world and Communist China there, no doubt also still annoyed that AuUKUS left out France
    His vocal support for a one China policy is going to make the French unwelcome pretty much everywhere in the Pacific other than China and North Korea.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,053
    Good morning, everyone.

    F1: if the two qualifying and two race plan goes ahead, unsure how I'll structure the blogging. I might just focus on the race and use the sprint nonsense for assessing pace and passing potential.
  • Options
    squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,401
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Some odd comments from PB Tories this morning. Had no idea that stagflation was something to celebrate.

    It's just stag, not two deer.
    Doe!
    How can I fallow that?
    Don't. Roe backwards....
    That comment is no elk.
    These puns are are getting into a bit of a rut.
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,767

    Sainsburys going bold with their Nectar price offer.24 cans of Coke Zero for £5 Not been anywhere near that kind of price since Christmas week 2020

    Some very aggressive Nectar pricing in-store too. I might have to think about getting a card. Tbh, I'm not really sure how much loyalty cards help the shops if most people use whichever is nearest but no doubt they know best.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,368
    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Trump sues former lawyer Michael Cohen for $500m
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-65256568

    After the man did time for him, that seems a little ungracious.
    Well yes, but client attorney privilege survives the ending of the relationship and writing a book about his client's actions and then making a career of repeating these allegations on TV is not exactly consistent with that obligation. For once, Trump may have a point.
    He should have hired a different attorney. A sharp, forensic, fearless legal mind like that of Rudi Giuli...ah.
    I think he's running short of those who are both willing to work for him, and have not yet been sanctioned in the course of doing so.

    Which is going to make it awkward if (as seems likely) he faces another couple of criminal proceedings.
    He may find it easier to get decent attorneys for that, as arguing criminal defences for various rather technical charges is probably easier and less professionally compromising than his pursuit of nonsense civil claims and the like.
    Unless, of course, your client intends to perjure himself.
  • Options
    squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,401
    edited April 2023

    Cost of 4 pints of milk down 10p to £1.55 at Tesco this morning. Kenco up from £6 to £7 at Sainsburys. I sense a Nectar price offer is imminent on that

    Yup at £6 but you will have to wait 28 days for it...
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,139


    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Another set of liars in court.

    Oops. After twice representing to the court that Rupert Murdoch has no official roll at Fox News, Fox revealed that Murdoch is “executive chair” at Fox News. The mild mannered judge was fairly steaming. He told Fox attorney “you have a credibility problem.”
    https://twitter.com/harrylitman/status/1645939168726618113

    Maybe he has an official role but no official roll.
    Familiarity bread contempt.

    I’m amused though at the idea an organisation employing Tucker Carlson has any credibility at all.
    There's a difference between being a notorious liar, and lying to a judge during legal proceedings, though.
    Yes, even Trump has usually been more careful about what his lawyers claim in court versus what he has them publicly claim. The Fox misrepresentation is weird though. Having read the summary judgement ruling Fox spent a lot of time arguing that the Murdochs have essentially nothing to do with Fox News content even though they run the overall company, attended many of the relevant meetings, were in daily communication about it, and issuing instructions about it.
    I don’t think the Murdoch’s themselves have denied their involvement.
    The seeking of summary judgement in Fox's favour included a lot of argument about Fox Corporation as distinct from Fox News (both were listed iirc) not being involved to the degree Dominion stated, and that the involvement of the Murdochs did not make the former involved to that degree.
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,807
    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Macron taking the Gaullist line of neutrality between Anglo-Saxon world and Communist China there, no doubt also still annoyed that AuUKUS left out France
    His vocal support for a one China policy is going to make the French unwelcome pretty much everywhere in the Pacific other than China and North Korea.
    As soon as his plane took off the Chinese military started a mock blockade of Taiwan,

    He;s getting criticised at home for giving them the green light to do so. Unfair as the Chinese had planned to do it anyway but he left himself open to the accusation.
  • Options
    GadflyGadfly Posts: 1,191

    Cost of 4 pints of milk down 10p to £1.55 at Tesco this morning. Kenco up from £6 to £7 at Sainsburys. I sense a Nectar price offer is imminent on that

    Kenco down to £6 at Morrisons yesterday, and £5.50 for the last month at B&M.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,139
    HYUFD said:

    There will always be a core of Trump supporters for whom he is only sinned against. One wonders how many of them were regular voters before, or in Trump found someone to vent their anger at democracy. They certainly seem to be over-represented in the Make Russia Great Again element. In place of Reagan Democrats, we now have Putin Republicans.

    But it is getting ever harder to find Trump apologists. It might have had a mischievous fun to ra-ra-ra for him when he was sticking it to the Man. But he is the Man; the grifter who has worked the gullible in the room for his own advancement - and fuck America in the process. His every pronouncement now further lifts the veil on a mean spirited, thin-skinned, self-interested disaster for the USA. Gradually, they are seeing this.

    If it weren't for the cult of celebrity that the US worships, he would be an embarrassed footnote in Presidential history. But he'll get there.

    Not all Republicans are Putin Republicans. Former VP Pence for example takes a harder line on Putin even than President Biden does let alone Trump or DeSantis.

    And they'd reject Trump's approach once he was in office again? Like hell they
    would. Damascene conversions all over the place, hallelujah.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,368

    Nigelb said:

    Pentagon leaks linked to young gun enthusiast who worked at military base – report
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/apr/13/pentagon-leaks-og-source-military-base-discord-report
    The man responsible for the leak of hundreds of classified Pentagon documents is reported to be a young, racist gun enthusiast who worked on a military base, and who was seeking to impress two dozen fellow members of an internet chat group...
    ...There is increasing evidence that the leak was not an intelligence operation by a state actor aiming to discredit the US, but more likely the consequence of a Pentagon policy of granting top secret security clearances to huge numbers of service members, civilians and contractors. The number of employees and contractors in the entire US government with top secret clearance is about 1.25 million.

    OG appears to have acted as a leader on a server originally set up in 2020 on the Discord messaging platform by a small group of gun enthusiasts and gamers. The group went by several names, but most often it was known as Thug Shaker Central. Starting last year, OG is reported to have posted the documents on a channel on the server he named “Bear vs Pig”, a reference to the Ukraine war but also a viral video showing pigs fighting off a black bear.


    Bit of a problem in a country where a large number of voters, encouraged by a recent president, actively support dictatorships like Russia.

    When a million plus people know it, it doesn't even count as "Secret" let alone "Top Secret".

    In the world of secrets, it seems fewer people in the US know that Prince Harry's marriage is over...
    Government of the people, by the people, for the people, doesn't work when the people don't trust the government.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,020
    kle4 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Nigelb said:

    Trump sues former lawyer Michael Cohen for $500m
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-65256568

    After the man did time for him, that seems a little ungracious.
    Trump does not believe in loyalty to anyone other than himself.

    In a way that’s a good thing, because it renders him ineffectual.

    Screwtape put it thus: “To be truly and effectively wicked, a man needs some virtue.”

    Wicked people who are courageous and who reward loyal followers, are a hell of a lot more dangerous than people like Trump.
    What's remarkable is despite proving himself a million times over people still seem surprised and willingly go under the bus for him.
    Someone like Hitler would never have got anywhere without the virtues of courage and loyalty. His war record speaks for itself. Winning the Iron Cross, First Class, was most unusual for someone who was not a commissioned officer. And, he was a decent boss, who never forgot anyone who had done him a kindness. That gave him a fervent core of close supporters who stood by him to the end, and would carry out any enormity in his name.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,707
    Nigelb said:

    Another set of liars in court.

    Oops. After twice representing to the court that Rupert Murdoch has no official roll at Fox News, Fox revealed that Murdoch is “executive chair” at Fox News. The mild mannered judge was fairly steaming. He told Fox attorney “you have a credibility problem.”
    https://twitter.com/harrylitman/status/1645939168726618113

    His official roll seems a bit half-baked.
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,940

    Cost of 4 pints of milk down 10p to £1.55 at Tesco this morning. Kenco up from £6 to £7 at Sainsburys. I sense a Nectar price offer is imminent on that

    Yup at £6 but you will have to wait 28 days for it...
    Well I currently have a personalised Nectar Price offer at £5.70 but its only £5.50 at Asda or it was last week when I bought it. I just get the feel this new Nectar price launch will have it at £5 or less very soon. They have Nescafe Gold plus at £4 and that was £8 last week..

    Is 28 days the time it has to be at at the higher price before they use the "was" 'now' trick
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,986
    MaxPB said:

    DavidL said:

    Sean_F said:

    MaxPB said:

    Hmm, lots of upwards revisions in the GDP data this morning. Think that puts us above Feb 2020.

    For the month it looks like the public sector strikes dragged growth down by 0.1-0.2% but there will be an element of catch up in March so we're on course for about 0.6% growth in Q1. Far from the doom and gloom we've been listening to from pundits and international think tanks I'd rate 0.6% growth in Q1 as fairly solid.

    So, can it be, that the IMF were … wrong?

    In fact, we are now above Feb. 2020, indeed we went above Feb .2020 in May of last year.

    No one should take much notice of initial GDP estimates, for it is a law as immutable as that of the Medes and the Persians, that GDP gets revised upwards.
    Its remarkable how almost no one has picked up that story given that it has been a (non-existent) stick with which to beat ourselves for so long.
    It isn't amazing really. It's not a doom and gloom story so expect it to be ignored.
    Many years ago, I recall Norman Tebbit tormenting Brian Redhead about unemployment figures on Radio 4.

    “You always used to ask me about unemployment when I came on the program. But you’ve stopped. Why is that?”

    He basically refused to start the interview until Brian asked the question about unemployment. Which had been going down for 24 months straight, or something like that.
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,738
    kle4 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Nigelb said:

    Trump sues former lawyer Michael Cohen for $500m
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-65256568

    After the man did time for him, that seems a little ungracious.
    Trump does not believe in loyalty to anyone other than himself.

    In a way that’s a good thing, because it renders him ineffectual.

    Screwtape put it thus: “To be truly and effectively wicked, a man needs some virtue.”

    Wicked people who are courageous and who reward loyal followers, are a hell of a lot more dangerous than people like Trump.
    What's remarkable is despite proving himself a million times over people still seem surprised and willingly go under the bus for him.
    I assume the case against Cohen by Trump is just an attempt by Trump to intimidate others from giving evidence against him.

    I know nothing about the US legal system, but I seem to remember Trump had a case thrown out and I believe punitive costs as did his lawyers for wasting court time. Hopefully the same happens here. Maybe someone who understands this better than me can comment?
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,368

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Macron taking the Gaullist line of neutrality between Anglo-Saxon world and Communist China there, no doubt also still annoyed that AuUKUS left out France
    His vocal support for a one China policy is going to make the French unwelcome pretty much everywhere in the Pacific other than China and North Korea.
    As soon as his plane took off the Chinese military started a mock blockade of Taiwan,

    He;s getting criticised at home for giving them the green light to do so. Unfair as the Chinese had planned to do it anyway but he left himself open to the accusation.
    Macron may, or may not have a point when it comes to strategically defining Europe separately from the US, but the timing of his intervention is highly damaging to the interests of both.

    A key problem with Macron's trip to China and comments is that - whatever his intention - they are interpreted in Moscow as signs of the impending fracture of the West, which only encourages digging in over Ukraine... 1/..
    https://mobile.twitter.com/MarkGaleotti/status/1646399926786482177

    France will not benefit from a compromise which sees Russia take sufficient Ukrainian
    territory to retrench for a renewed effort in a few years time.
    If the invasion is not defeated, it is very likely to be repeated - as we saw from 2014.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,193

    Nigelb said:

    Pentagon leaks linked to young gun enthusiast who worked at military base – report
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/apr/13/pentagon-leaks-og-source-military-base-discord-report
    The man responsible for the leak of hundreds of classified Pentagon documents is reported to be a young, racist gun enthusiast who worked on a military base, and who was seeking to impress two dozen fellow members of an internet chat group...
    ...There is increasing evidence that the leak was not an intelligence operation by a state actor aiming to discredit the US, but more likely the consequence of a Pentagon policy of granting top secret security clearances to huge numbers of service members, civilians and contractors. The number of employees and contractors in the entire US government with top secret clearance is about 1.25 million.

    OG appears to have acted as a leader on a server originally set up in 2020 on the Discord messaging platform by a small group of gun enthusiasts and gamers. The group went by several names, but most often it was known as Thug Shaker Central. Starting last year, OG is reported to have posted the documents on a channel on the server he named “Bear vs Pig”, a reference to the Ukraine war but also a viral video showing pigs fighting off a black bear.


    Bit of a problem in a country where a large number of voters, encouraged by a recent president, actively support dictatorships like Russia.

    When a million plus people know it, it doesn't even count as "Secret" let alone "Top Secret".

    In the world of secrets, it seems fewer people in the US know that Prince Harry's marriage is over...
    Has anyone told Prince Harry?
    They will tell him - when the deal has been cut with Meghan....
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,368

    Nigelb said:

    Another set of liars in court.

    Oops. After twice representing to the court that Rupert Murdoch has no official roll at Fox News, Fox revealed that Murdoch is “executive chair” at Fox News. The mild mannered judge was fairly steaming. He told Fox attorney “you have a credibility problem.”
    https://twitter.com/harrylitman/status/1645939168726618113

    His official roll seems a bit half-baked.
    It got a rise out of the judge.
    And he was proved a liar.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,339
    edited April 2023
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    There will always be a core of Trump supporters for whom he is only sinned against. One wonders how many of them were regular voters before, or in Trump found someone to vent their anger at democracy. They certainly seem to be over-represented in the Make Russia Great Again element. In place of Reagan Democrats, we now have Putin Republicans.

    But it is getting ever harder to find Trump apologists. It might have had a mischievous fun to ra-ra-ra for him when he was sticking it to the Man. But he is the Man; the grifter who has worked the gullible in the room for his own advancement - and fuck America in the process. His every pronouncement now further lifts the veil on a mean spirited, thin-skinned, self-interested disaster for the USA. Gradually, they are seeing this.

    If it weren't for the cult of celebrity that the US worships, he would be an embarrassed footnote in Presidential history. But he'll get there.

    Not all Republicans are Putin Republicans. Former VP Pence for example takes a harder line on Putin even than President Biden does let alone Trump or DeSantis.

    And they'd reject Trump's approach once he was in office again? Like hell they
    would. Damascene conversions all over the place, hallelujah.
    Romney voted to impeach Trump remember. Pence was effectively pivotal to stopping the attempted Trump coup in January 2021 when he was still VP, arguably risking his life to do so as the mob stormed Congress
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,126
    Nigelb said:


    If the invasion is not defeated, it is very likely to be repeated - as we saw from 2014.

    Why won't it be repeated if it is defeated? For whatever value of 'defeated' you care to adopt.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,986

    Nigelb said:

    Pentagon leaks linked to young gun enthusiast who worked at military base – report
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/apr/13/pentagon-leaks-og-source-military-base-discord-report
    The man responsible for the leak of hundreds of classified Pentagon documents is reported to be a young, racist gun enthusiast who worked on a military base, and who was seeking to impress two dozen fellow members of an internet chat group...
    ...There is increasing evidence that the leak was not an intelligence operation by a state actor aiming to discredit the US, but more likely the consequence of a Pentagon policy of granting top secret security clearances to huge numbers of service members, civilians and contractors. The number of employees and contractors in the entire US government with top secret clearance is about 1.25 million.

    OG appears to have acted as a leader on a server originally set up in 2020 on the Discord messaging platform by a small group of gun enthusiasts and gamers. The group went by several names, but most often it was known as Thug Shaker Central. Starting last year, OG is reported to have posted the documents on a channel on the server he named “Bear vs Pig”, a reference to the Ukraine war but also a viral video showing pigs fighting off a black bear.


    Bit of a problem in a country where a large number of voters, encouraged by a recent president, actively support dictatorships like Russia.

    When a million plus people know it, it doesn't even count as "Secret" let alone "Top Secret".

    In the world of secrets, it seems fewer people in the US know that Prince Harry's marriage is over...
    Has anyone told Prince Harry?
    They will tell him - when the deal has been cut with Meghan....
    Have they told Meghan, then?
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,368
    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:


    If the invasion is not defeated, it is very likely to be repeated - as we saw from 2014.

    Why won't it be repeated if it is defeated? For whatever value of 'defeated' you care to adopt.
    It makes it considerably less likely.
    If this one is seen to have achieved positive results, as with 2014, it makes another one easier.
    That's not a complicated point.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,368
    Germany aims to ‘set the record straight’ on China after Macron’s Taiwan comments
    As German Foreign Minister Baerbock heads to China, Berlin is keen to stress that Europe will neither let Taiwan nor the US down.
    https://www.politico.eu/article/berlin-aims-to-set-the-record-straight-after-macrons-taiwan-controversy-aggressive-military-maneuvers/
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,327
    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:


    If the invasion is not defeated, it is very likely to be repeated - as we saw from 2014.

    Why won't it be repeated if it is defeated? For whatever value of 'defeated' you care to adopt.
    There is no guarantee. But a Russian 'defeat' will leave them with a big question; having 'lost' once, how do they win next time? It will also leave Ukraine stronger and more able to defeat another attack.

    A Ukrainian 'win' also acts as a warning for any other states that are thinking of expansionist adventures.

    There's another issue: will the Russians admit 'defeat'? Even if the Ukrainians were to take back all their pre-2014 territory, including Crimea, the Russian media could still claim a 'win'.
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,807
    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Macron taking the Gaullist line of neutrality between Anglo-Saxon world and Communist China there, no doubt also still annoyed that AuUKUS left out France
    His vocal support for a one China policy is going to make the French unwelcome pretty much everywhere in the Pacific other than China and North Korea.
    As soon as his plane took off the Chinese military started a mock blockade of Taiwan,

    He;s getting criticised at home for giving them the green light to do so. Unfair as the Chinese had planned to do it anyway but he left himself open to the accusation.
    Macron may, or may not have a point when it comes to strategically defining Europe separately from the US, but the timing of his intervention is highly damaging to the interests of both.

    A key problem with Macron's trip to China and comments is that - whatever his intention - they are interpreted in Moscow as signs of the impending fracture of the West, which only encourages digging in over Ukraine... 1/..
    https://mobile.twitter.com/MarkGaleotti/status/1646399926786482177

    France will not benefit from a compromise which sees Russia take sufficient Ukrainian
    territory to retrench for a renewed effort in a few years time.
    If the invasion is not defeated, it is very likely to be repeated - as we saw from 2014.
    He;s doing a failed version of creating a foreign distraction to hide problems at home.

    Running though Figaro this morning its strikes; strikes and transport blockages.

    I remain bemused that none of this seems to make its way in to the IMF forecast for France
This discussion has been closed.