Did Trump fundraise from his election lies? – politicalbetting.com
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Sometimes though its not fixable if the issue is the network and you are reliant on others. I don't doubt the 500 lost figure in the least it will be the people like anabob that think there is no point to cash so never have any. Now that works if the issue is fixable or fairly localised. But some outages have lasted hours or in some cases days and affected millions.....now imagine you can't pay anywhere for anything for 2 days and cant get money from the atms either and you have no cash....ok the vast majority will have food in cupboards...but there will be people who can't get to work, don't have food, don't have medication because they were going to go refill the prescription etc.eek said:
Comment from my corner shop yesterday - he lost £500 or so of sales when the card machine went down for an hour on Sunday.Pagan2 said:
You would have been stuck last week then here as the local shop to me was cash only for 2 days as their machine wasn't working. Only other option was to get a bus to town or go without.....luckily I pretty much use cash for all my day to day purchases so I was ok......other people expecting to be able to pay cashlessly were so out of luck......next time I will take a deckchair round and some beer and taunt them mercilesslyAnabobazina said:
Everywhere is MOVING TOWARDS cashlessness and to claim otherwise is to deny the clear evidence in front of you. As much as it might not appeal to your prejudices, I leave London regularly – particularly for hiking and biking tours in high-country remote places.ydoethur said:
I use cash, because as has been patiently explained to you before, outside Extortion City there are still lots of places that don't take cards because it's much more expensive particularly for small transactions. I know that a study put forward by the main card clearing house said otherwise but it was patently not telling the truth (as in, had forged its figures).Anabobazina said:
Agree entirely. In fact @ManchesterKurt has given an excellent if saddening counterexample – others just seem to be based on: "I like cash, dunno why".Leon said:
I've gone months in London without using cash. I always do have some, but it can stay unspent in my pocket for entire seasonsAnabobazina said:
Indeed. And it's risky, carrying it around. I imagine 'petty' robberies (in the absence of a more appropriate term) are much more prevalent in those countries where cash is the norm.Leon said:
Plus you can lose cash, it's a hassle to change it, you put it in the washing machine by mistake, and so on and so forthAnabobazina said:
It really is. A total timer waster –– "oh I have to go to the bank machine, where is the bank machine? Dunno, oh it's x miles away"Leon said:
In Thailand it is still 80% cash at least. It is really quite annoying have to go back to paper wads (let alone meaningless coins). It made me realise that cash is definitely doomed. Cash is a total painAnabobazina said:
I haven't carried a wallet for nearly two years. Both my watch and phone make payments so what exactly is the point of carting around a load of pointless plastic and paper?Cookie said:
Really?Anabobazina said:Re: cash, someone said to me the other day, have you seen the 'new' 50pm coin?
I replied that I hadn't seen it, nor a 50p coin of any kind, old, middle-aged or new, for about a decade.
Up until 2020, I had a coin jar, which accumulated change through the year and was periodically taken to the bank - it used to get about £400 a year in change. Since the pandemic, it no longer builds up ,and I have to go out of my way from time to time to get change to keep it stocked. But I do still need coins, for reasons including, er:
- transactions with children (the tooth fairy doesn't bring plastic)
- tips in restaurants (I want my money to go to the specific waiter/waitress who provided the service)
- buskers
- parking (most car parks accept payment by app but that is a massive pain in the arse, particularly if I don't have my glasses with me)
- filling a pint glass with, then pissing in it and throwing it from on high at 15 year old girls who have a different favourite football team to me (joking - I'm not a Liverpool fan).
It's not a massive list. But cash isn't dead yet.
EDIT: All that said, upon meeting a colleague for the first time in 2 years recently, I was shocked to find he no longer even carries a wallet - just does everything on his phone. Does he not worry about running out of battery? Does he not worry about losing his phone? Does he not worry about having his phone but not his glasses? Apparently not. Not for me, Clive.
Absolutely ridiculous persisting with it nowadays.
Cash is doomed, the same way real gold and silver coins were doomed back in the day, and the value of notes and coins became notional
It's rare among my friends that anyone carries cash – as it's pointless in London.
It just seems mad to believe that in twenty years we will still be reaching in purses and counting out bits of paper and circles of metal. I do sympathise with sad stories like that of @ManchesterKurt below - that's awful - but I don't see that stopping inevitable progress
What might kill cash off eventually is the number of bank branches that are being closed, which will make it much more difficult to obtain and secure it. That's what's happening in say, North Wales. And that is not because of the merits or demerits of physical cash but because (1) branches being shut down, however well-used, reduces overheads dramatically and (b) banks can charge more in card transaction fees than in cash deposit fees.
London is not a typical example and should also never be used as such. It's much more crowded, much more expensive and much younger than the average town in the UK, including for things like food and transport (coins are still needed for many bus journeys round here). It's therefore less practical to use cash and the population tends to be more addicted to their phones in any case. That doesn't mean just because London is moving towards cashlessness everywhere else will as well.
I haven't used cash for anything, anywhere in the UK, and haven't needed to. The idea that rural areas are still cash-only holdouts is an utter fantasy.
His annoyance was that his wife didn't call him to ask how to fix it and just said cash only...
Anyone that can afford to and doesn't have a cash in case of emergencies stash is a fool0 -
Used to. A fairly long time ago.Andy_JS said:
You must know that hardly anyone used to only use cash. Most people used cheques for large payments.Anabobazina said:
I struggle with the veracity of such anecdotes. Do they pay their monthly bills by cash, at a post office? Their TV licence? Their mortgage? Their rent? How many people as a proportion of the UK population operate only in cash – and how exactly do they string a life together?Driver said:
Absolutely - I know a few people who like to use cash for budgeting because paying by card doesn't feel like spending money.ManchesterKurt said:
Because there will always be a proportion of the population that require cash as they are unable to deal with more modern ways of budgeting.Anabobazina said:
Why? Would you allow people to pay in postal orders or cheques or similarly obsolete payments?Selebian said:
If there's contactless (hell, even chip and pin) then I'm not too bothered about what else is available. Cash for those who prefer/need that should also be provided, I think.Pulpstar said:
Contactless is great. Phone apps for carparking just shouldn't be allowed. For one thing your debit card won't go out of battery for that 1% of time your phone is out of juice and you can't phone tap the contactless.Tres said:Council round here has moved to phone apps entirely for parking, even though they had machines available which could take contactless payments. Bonkers.
The frustrating thing is that any halfway decent parking app standard would be more convenient for most. Car reg(s) stored in app. Location services pinpoint the car park (or some NFC thing to swipe at worst). Choose your time and go, automatic payment. Extendable without returning to the car park. No queues. Many benefits. The current shit-show is not necessary.
My wife had a very severe stroke 5 years ago and has left her with tremendous mental issues, she cannot understand the difference between up or down, left or right, forwards or backwards. She cannot unlock doors, she cannot leave the house alone.
But she does have a level of financial independence as each month we take some money out of her bank and over the month she manages her spend as she can touch, feel and see her money.
My wife could not deal with a card (if nothing else her eye sight is so poor she cannot see the numbers on the keypads), take away cash and you take away about the only thing in her life that she has any level of independence over.
My wife may be a very extreme case, but there are probably far more people at that end of the spectrum than you would imagine.
Obviously, people who don't need to worry about having month left at the end of the money can merrily tap away.
Lots of things used to happen a long time ago.1 -
Surprising how things have changed in a decade. I was in Stockholm for work in 2010, arrived on delayed flight (snow at UK airport) very late and grabbed a cab from the centre to where I was staying with colleague - original plan was colleague to pick me up, but it was late, his wife was out on shift and young children so he culdn't leave as he would have done earlier. Asked for them to stop at a cash machine on the way so I could pay, only to find they had a card machine on-board. Seemed futuristic at the time; I'd never encountered that in UK.kjh said:
In the last few years I have only used cash for a haircut (yep I don't know why they only take cash). I did a holiday in Iceland a few years ago and never used cash once; I didn't have any. Adnams will not take cash in their pubs.Leon said:
I've just spent about two weeks going around Cornwall - from little villages to bigger towns. I needed cash just once - in a cafe in a remote cove - but that was only because their wifi was down so the machine would not workAnabobazina said:
Everywhere is MOVING TOWARDS cashlessness and to claim otherwise is to deny the clear evidence in front of you. As much as it might not appeal to your prejudices, I leave London regularly – particularly for hiking and biking tours in high-country remote places.ydoethur said:
I use cash, because as has been patiently explained to you before, outside Extortion City there are still lots of places that don't take cards because it's much more expensive particularly for small transactions. I know that a study put forward by the main card clearing house said otherwise but it was patently not telling the truth (as in, had forged its figures).Anabobazina said:
Agree entirely. In fact @ManchesterKurt has given an excellent if saddening counterexample – others just seem to be based on: "I like cash, dunno why".Leon said:
I've gone months in London without using cash. I always do have some, but it can stay unspent in my pocket for entire seasonsAnabobazina said:
Indeed. And it's risky, carrying it around. I imagine 'petty' robberies (in the absence of a more appropriate term) are much more prevalent in those countries where cash is the norm.Leon said:
Plus you can lose cash, it's a hassle to change it, you put it in the washing machine by mistake, and so on and so forthAnabobazina said:
It really is. A total timer waster –– "oh I have to go to the bank machine, where is the bank machine? Dunno, oh it's x miles away"Leon said:
In Thailand it is still 80% cash at least. It is really quite annoying have to go back to paper wads (let alone meaningless coins). It made me realise that cash is definitely doomed. Cash is a total painAnabobazina said:
I haven't carried a wallet for nearly two years. Both my watch and phone make payments so what exactly is the point of carting around a load of pointless plastic and paper?Cookie said:
Really?Anabobazina said:Re: cash, someone said to me the other day, have you seen the 'new' 50pm coin?
I replied that I hadn't seen it, nor a 50p coin of any kind, old, middle-aged or new, for about a decade.
Up until 2020, I had a coin jar, which accumulated change through the year and was periodically taken to the bank - it used to get about £400 a year in change. Since the pandemic, it no longer builds up ,and I have to go out of my way from time to time to get change to keep it stocked. But I do still need coins, for reasons including, er:
- transactions with children (the tooth fairy doesn't bring plastic)
- tips in restaurants (I want my money to go to the specific waiter/waitress who provided the service)
- buskers
- parking (most car parks accept payment by app but that is a massive pain in the arse, particularly if I don't have my glasses with me)
- filling a pint glass with, then pissing in it and throwing it from on high at 15 year old girls who have a different favourite football team to me (joking - I'm not a Liverpool fan).
It's not a massive list. But cash isn't dead yet.
EDIT: All that said, upon meeting a colleague for the first time in 2 years recently, I was shocked to find he no longer even carries a wallet - just does everything on his phone. Does he not worry about running out of battery? Does he not worry about losing his phone? Does he not worry about having his phone but not his glasses? Apparently not. Not for me, Clive.
Absolutely ridiculous persisting with it nowadays.
Cash is doomed, the same way real gold and silver coins were doomed back in the day, and the value of notes and coins became notional
It's rare among my friends that anyone carries cash – as it's pointless in London.
It just seems mad to believe that in twenty years we will still be reaching in purses and counting out bits of paper and circles of metal. I do sympathise with sad stories like that of @ManchesterKurt below - that's awful - but I don't see that stopping inevitable progress
What might kill cash off eventually is the number of bank branches that are being closed, which will make it much more difficult to obtain and secure it. That's what's happening in say, North Wales. And that is not because of the merits or demerits of physical cash but because (1) branches being shut down, however well-used, reduces overheads dramatically and (b) banks can charge more in card transaction fees than in cash deposit fees.
London is not a typical example and should also never be used as such. It's much more crowded, much more expensive and much younger than the average town in the UK, including for things like food and transport (coins are still needed for many bus journeys round here). It's therefore less practical to use cash and the population tends to be more addicted to their phones in any case. That doesn't mean just because London is moving towards cashlessness everywhere else will as well.
I haven't used cash for anything, anywhere in the UK, and haven't needed to. The idea that rural areas are still cash-only holdouts is an utter fantasy.
It was noticeable and I remember it precisely because it seemed so odd - to everyone. Actual Cash!
This is going to be a problem going forward for the very few who have no alternative to cash.
Now it's a shock to be asked for cash in most places. Haircuts are also the one place I usually need cash - are they all dodging tax?0 -
The number who never use cash isn't even 50% of people. The cashless are still the minority cash users are not a tiny proportion.Anabobazina said:
It's going to become a big policy question, probably fairly soon. Cash is dying. A large and growing proportion of the population never or rarely use it. It's like analogue telly – getting the holdouts to switch to digital was vexatious for a while, but it happened. Retaining cash when a tiny proportion of the population use it will be akin to retaining analogue telly.Pagan2 said:
I am curious why you are strident on this issue, most of those saying they should be able to continue to pay cash aren't telling you that you must use cash. They are just saying they want to retain the right to use cash instead of card/phone whatever.Anabobazina said:
I'm not calling you a liar, simply challenging the idea that they wouldn't learn to budget were cash unavailable. People adapt. Seatbelt paradox.Driver said:
Bills go out the day after payday, then they withdraw whatever's left in cash and budget accordingly.Anabobazina said:
I struggle with the veracity of such anecdotes. Do they pay their monthly bills by cash, at a post office? Their TV licence? Their mortgage? Their rent? How many people as a proportion of the UK population operate only in cash – and how exactly do they string a life together?Driver said:
Absolutely - I know a few people who like to use cash for budgeting because paying by card doesn't feel like spending money.ManchesterKurt said:
Because there will always be a proportion of the population that require cash as they are unable to deal with more modern ways of budgeting.Anabobazina said:
Why? Would you allow people to pay in postal orders or cheques or similarly obsolete payments?Selebian said:
If there's contactless (hell, even chip and pin) then I'm not too bothered about what else is available. Cash for those who prefer/need that should also be provided, I think.Pulpstar said:
Contactless is great. Phone apps for carparking just shouldn't be allowed. For one thing your debit card won't go out of battery for that 1% of time your phone is out of juice and you can't phone tap the contactless.Tres said:Council round here has moved to phone apps entirely for parking, even though they had machines available which could take contactless payments. Bonkers.
The frustrating thing is that any halfway decent parking app standard would be more convenient for most. Car reg(s) stored in app. Location services pinpoint the car park (or some NFC thing to swipe at worst). Choose your time and go, automatic payment. Extendable without returning to the car park. No queues. Many benefits. The current shit-show is not necessary.
My wife had a very severe stroke 5 years ago and has left her with tremendous mental issues, she cannot understand the difference between up or down, left or right, forwards or backwards. She cannot unlock doors, she cannot leave the house alone.
But she does have a level of financial independence as each month we take some money out of her bank and over the month she manages her spend as she can touch, feel and see her money.
My wife could not deal with a card (if nothing else her eye sight is so poor she cannot see the numbers on the keypads), take away cash and you take away about the only thing in her life that she has any level of independence over.
My wife may be a very extreme case, but there are probably far more people at that end of the spectrum than you would imagine.
Obviously, people who don't need to worry about having month left at the end of the money can merrily tap away.
You can call me a liar if you want.
So if no one is saying you have to be made to use cash...why are you so fervent on stopping those that want the option to continue having the option to use cash?0 -
My barber doesn't take cards but does take bank transfers, which I've never quite got my head around.Selebian said:
Surprising how things have changed in a decade. I was in Stockholm for work in 2010, arrived on delayed flight (snow at UK airport) very late and grabbed a cab from the centre to where I was staying with colleague - original plan was colleague to pick me up, but it was late, his wife was out on shift and young children so he culdn't leave as he would have done earlier. Asked for them to stop at a cash machine on the way so I could pay, only to find they had a card machine on-board. Seemed futuristic at the time; I'd never encountered that in UK.kjh said:
In the last few years I have only used cash for a haircut (yep I don't know why they only take cash). I did a holiday in Iceland a few years ago and never used cash once; I didn't have any. Adnams will not take cash in their pubs.Leon said:
I've just spent about two weeks going around Cornwall - from little villages to bigger towns. I needed cash just once - in a cafe in a remote cove - but that was only because their wifi was down so the machine would not workAnabobazina said:
Everywhere is MOVING TOWARDS cashlessness and to claim otherwise is to deny the clear evidence in front of you. As much as it might not appeal to your prejudices, I leave London regularly – particularly for hiking and biking tours in high-country remote places.ydoethur said:
I use cash, because as has been patiently explained to you before, outside Extortion City there are still lots of places that don't take cards because it's much more expensive particularly for small transactions. I know that a study put forward by the main card clearing house said otherwise but it was patently not telling the truth (as in, had forged its figures).Anabobazina said:
Agree entirely. In fact @ManchesterKurt has given an excellent if saddening counterexample – others just seem to be based on: "I like cash, dunno why".Leon said:
I've gone months in London without using cash. I always do have some, but it can stay unspent in my pocket for entire seasonsAnabobazina said:
Indeed. And it's risky, carrying it around. I imagine 'petty' robberies (in the absence of a more appropriate term) are much more prevalent in those countries where cash is the norm.Leon said:
Plus you can lose cash, it's a hassle to change it, you put it in the washing machine by mistake, and so on and so forthAnabobazina said:
It really is. A total timer waster –– "oh I have to go to the bank machine, where is the bank machine? Dunno, oh it's x miles away"Leon said:
In Thailand it is still 80% cash at least. It is really quite annoying have to go back to paper wads (let alone meaningless coins). It made me realise that cash is definitely doomed. Cash is a total painAnabobazina said:
I haven't carried a wallet for nearly two years. Both my watch and phone make payments so what exactly is the point of carting around a load of pointless plastic and paper?Cookie said:
Really?Anabobazina said:Re: cash, someone said to me the other day, have you seen the 'new' 50pm coin?
I replied that I hadn't seen it, nor a 50p coin of any kind, old, middle-aged or new, for about a decade.
Up until 2020, I had a coin jar, which accumulated change through the year and was periodically taken to the bank - it used to get about £400 a year in change. Since the pandemic, it no longer builds up ,and I have to go out of my way from time to time to get change to keep it stocked. But I do still need coins, for reasons including, er:
- transactions with children (the tooth fairy doesn't bring plastic)
- tips in restaurants (I want my money to go to the specific waiter/waitress who provided the service)
- buskers
- parking (most car parks accept payment by app but that is a massive pain in the arse, particularly if I don't have my glasses with me)
- filling a pint glass with, then pissing in it and throwing it from on high at 15 year old girls who have a different favourite football team to me (joking - I'm not a Liverpool fan).
It's not a massive list. But cash isn't dead yet.
EDIT: All that said, upon meeting a colleague for the first time in 2 years recently, I was shocked to find he no longer even carries a wallet - just does everything on his phone. Does he not worry about running out of battery? Does he not worry about losing his phone? Does he not worry about having his phone but not his glasses? Apparently not. Not for me, Clive.
Absolutely ridiculous persisting with it nowadays.
Cash is doomed, the same way real gold and silver coins were doomed back in the day, and the value of notes and coins became notional
It's rare among my friends that anyone carries cash – as it's pointless in London.
It just seems mad to believe that in twenty years we will still be reaching in purses and counting out bits of paper and circles of metal. I do sympathise with sad stories like that of @ManchesterKurt below - that's awful - but I don't see that stopping inevitable progress
What might kill cash off eventually is the number of bank branches that are being closed, which will make it much more difficult to obtain and secure it. That's what's happening in say, North Wales. And that is not because of the merits or demerits of physical cash but because (1) branches being shut down, however well-used, reduces overheads dramatically and (b) banks can charge more in card transaction fees than in cash deposit fees.
London is not a typical example and should also never be used as such. It's much more crowded, much more expensive and much younger than the average town in the UK, including for things like food and transport (coins are still needed for many bus journeys round here). It's therefore less practical to use cash and the population tends to be more addicted to their phones in any case. That doesn't mean just because London is moving towards cashlessness everywhere else will as well.
I haven't used cash for anything, anywhere in the UK, and haven't needed to. The idea that rural areas are still cash-only holdouts is an utter fantasy.
It was noticeable and I remember it precisely because it seemed so odd - to everyone. Actual Cash!
This is going to be a problem going forward for the very few who have no alternative to cash.
Now it's a shock to be asked for cash in most places. Haircuts are also the one place I usually need cash - are they all dodging tax?0 -
Cards in Scandinavian taxis, before the global era of Uber, were indeed a joy of business travel particularly as Kronor cash wasn’t any use elsewhere and tended to end up sitting around in drawers at home.Selebian said:
Surprising how things have changed in a decade. I was in Stockholm for work in 2010, arrived on delayed flight (snow at UK airport) very late and grabbed a cab from the centre to where I was staying with colleague - original plan was colleague to pick me up, but it was late, his wife was out on shift and young children so he culdn't leave as he would have done earlier. Asked for them to stop at a cash machine on the way so I could pay, only to find they had a card machine on-board. Seemed futuristic at the time; I'd never encountered that in UK.kjh said:
In the last few years I have only used cash for a haircut (yep I don't know why they only take cash). I did a holiday in Iceland a few years ago and never used cash once; I didn't have any. Adnams will not take cash in their pubs.Leon said:
I've just spent about two weeks going around Cornwall - from little villages to bigger towns. I needed cash just once - in a cafe in a remote cove - but that was only because their wifi was down so the machine would not workAnabobazina said:
Everywhere is MOVING TOWARDS cashlessness and to claim otherwise is to deny the clear evidence in front of you. As much as it might not appeal to your prejudices, I leave London regularly – particularly for hiking and biking tours in high-country remote places.ydoethur said:
I use cash, because as has been patiently explained to you before, outside Extortion City there are still lots of places that don't take cards because it's much more expensive particularly for small transactions. I know that a study put forward by the main card clearing house said otherwise but it was patently not telling the truth (as in, had forged its figures).Anabobazina said:
Agree entirely. In fact @ManchesterKurt has given an excellent if saddening counterexample – others just seem to be based on: "I like cash, dunno why".Leon said:
I've gone months in London without using cash. I always do have some, but it can stay unspent in my pocket for entire seasonsAnabobazina said:
Indeed. And it's risky, carrying it around. I imagine 'petty' robberies (in the absence of a more appropriate term) are much more prevalent in those countries where cash is the norm.Leon said:
Plus you can lose cash, it's a hassle to change it, you put it in the washing machine by mistake, and so on and so forthAnabobazina said:
It really is. A total timer waster –– "oh I have to go to the bank machine, where is the bank machine? Dunno, oh it's x miles away"Leon said:
In Thailand it is still 80% cash at least. It is really quite annoying have to go back to paper wads (let alone meaningless coins). It made me realise that cash is definitely doomed. Cash is a total painAnabobazina said:
I haven't carried a wallet for nearly two years. Both my watch and phone make payments so what exactly is the point of carting around a load of pointless plastic and paper?Cookie said:
Really?Anabobazina said:Re: cash, someone said to me the other day, have you seen the 'new' 50pm coin?
I replied that I hadn't seen it, nor a 50p coin of any kind, old, middle-aged or new, for about a decade.
Up until 2020, I had a coin jar, which accumulated change through the year and was periodically taken to the bank - it used to get about £400 a year in change. Since the pandemic, it no longer builds up ,and I have to go out of my way from time to time to get change to keep it stocked. But I do still need coins, for reasons including, er:
- transactions with children (the tooth fairy doesn't bring plastic)
- tips in restaurants (I want my money to go to the specific waiter/waitress who provided the service)
- buskers
- parking (most car parks accept payment by app but that is a massive pain in the arse, particularly if I don't have my glasses with me)
- filling a pint glass with, then pissing in it and throwing it from on high at 15 year old girls who have a different favourite football team to me (joking - I'm not a Liverpool fan).
It's not a massive list. But cash isn't dead yet.
EDIT: All that said, upon meeting a colleague for the first time in 2 years recently, I was shocked to find he no longer even carries a wallet - just does everything on his phone. Does he not worry about running out of battery? Does he not worry about losing his phone? Does he not worry about having his phone but not his glasses? Apparently not. Not for me, Clive.
Absolutely ridiculous persisting with it nowadays.
Cash is doomed, the same way real gold and silver coins were doomed back in the day, and the value of notes and coins became notional
It's rare among my friends that anyone carries cash – as it's pointless in London.
It just seems mad to believe that in twenty years we will still be reaching in purses and counting out bits of paper and circles of metal. I do sympathise with sad stories like that of @ManchesterKurt below - that's awful - but I don't see that stopping inevitable progress
What might kill cash off eventually is the number of bank branches that are being closed, which will make it much more difficult to obtain and secure it. That's what's happening in say, North Wales. And that is not because of the merits or demerits of physical cash but because (1) branches being shut down, however well-used, reduces overheads dramatically and (b) banks can charge more in card transaction fees than in cash deposit fees.
London is not a typical example and should also never be used as such. It's much more crowded, much more expensive and much younger than the average town in the UK, including for things like food and transport (coins are still needed for many bus journeys round here). It's therefore less practical to use cash and the population tends to be more addicted to their phones in any case. That doesn't mean just because London is moving towards cashlessness everywhere else will as well.
I haven't used cash for anything, anywhere in the UK, and haven't needed to. The idea that rural areas are still cash-only holdouts is an utter fantasy.
It was noticeable and I remember it precisely because it seemed so odd - to everyone. Actual Cash!
This is going to be a problem going forward for the very few who have no alternative to cash.
Now it's a shock to be asked for cash in most places. Haircuts are also the one place I usually need cash - are they all dodging tax?1 -
Exactly there are other independence parties available now and may be even more in future. The gravy trainers are F**kedydoethur said:
I don't think that would matter. The main pro-independence party can rely on 40-odd % of the vote before they've blinked. The trick will be to establish who is the *main* one.eek said:
The new party would lose all it's Westminster (and Scottish Parliament?) money however... Which would make funding the preparation of the next campaign a problem.Nigelb said:
How much would that matter, though ?Leon said:It gets still worse for the SNP
https://order-order.com/2023/04/13/snp-westminster-group-face-losing-1-million-after-auditors-quit/
Might they actually go bankrupt?
Presumably it would be possible to constitute a new pro-independence party. It might even do them a favour by clearing out those implicated, and distancing the new party from the mess.0 -
Plastic notes are fine in the washing machineLeon said:
Plus you can lose cash, it's a hassle to change it, you put it in the washing machine by mistake, and so on and so forthAnabobazina said:
It really is. A total timer waster –– "oh I have to go to the bank machine, where is the bank machine? Dunno, oh it's x miles away"Leon said:
In Thailand it is still 80% cash at least. It is really quite annoying have to go back to paper wads (let alone meaningless coins). It made me realise that cash is definitely doomed. Cash is a total painAnabobazina said:
I haven't carried a wallet for nearly two years. Both my watch and phone make payments so what exactly is the point of carting around a load of pointless plastic and paper?Cookie said:
Really?Anabobazina said:Re: cash, someone said to me the other day, have you seen the 'new' 50pm coin?
I replied that I hadn't seen it, nor a 50p coin of any kind, old, middle-aged or new, for about a decade.
Up until 2020, I had a coin jar, which accumulated change through the year and was periodically taken to the bank - it used to get about £400 a year in change. Since the pandemic, it no longer builds up ,and I have to go out of my way from time to time to get change to keep it stocked. But I do still need coins, for reasons including, er:
- transactions with children (the tooth fairy doesn't bring plastic)
- tips in restaurants (I want my money to go to the specific waiter/waitress who provided the service)
- buskers
- parking (most car parks accept payment by app but that is a massive pain in the arse, particularly if I don't have my glasses with me)
- filling a pint glass with, then pissing in it and throwing it from on high at 15 year old girls who have a different favourite football team to me (joking - I'm not a Liverpool fan).
It's not a massive list. But cash isn't dead yet.
EDIT: All that said, upon meeting a colleague for the first time in 2 years recently, I was shocked to find he no longer even carries a wallet - just does everything on his phone. Does he not worry about running out of battery? Does he not worry about losing his phone? Does he not worry about having his phone but not his glasses? Apparently not. Not for me, Clive.
Absolutely ridiculous persisting with it nowadays.
Cash is doomed, the same way real gold and silver coins were doomed back in the day, and the value of notes and coins became notional1 -
Many small business owners don't realise how cheap card fees have become in recent years. Was probably quoted 7% or so years ago, and hasn't kept up to date.Driver said:
My barber doesn't take cards but does take bank transfers, which I've never quite got my head around.Selebian said:
Surprising how things have changed in a decade. I was in Stockholm for work in 2010, arrived on delayed flight (snow at UK airport) very late and grabbed a cab from the centre to where I was staying with colleague - original plan was colleague to pick me up, but it was late, his wife was out on shift and young children so he culdn't leave as he would have done earlier. Asked for them to stop at a cash machine on the way so I could pay, only to find they had a card machine on-board. Seemed futuristic at the time; I'd never encountered that in UK.kjh said:
In the last few years I have only used cash for a haircut (yep I don't know why they only take cash). I did a holiday in Iceland a few years ago and never used cash once; I didn't have any. Adnams will not take cash in their pubs.Leon said:
I've just spent about two weeks going around Cornwall - from little villages to bigger towns. I needed cash just once - in a cafe in a remote cove - but that was only because their wifi was down so the machine would not workAnabobazina said:
Everywhere is MOVING TOWARDS cashlessness and to claim otherwise is to deny the clear evidence in front of you. As much as it might not appeal to your prejudices, I leave London regularly – particularly for hiking and biking tours in high-country remote places.ydoethur said:
I use cash, because as has been patiently explained to you before, outside Extortion City there are still lots of places that don't take cards because it's much more expensive particularly for small transactions. I know that a study put forward by the main card clearing house said otherwise but it was patently not telling the truth (as in, had forged its figures).Anabobazina said:
Agree entirely. In fact @ManchesterKurt has given an excellent if saddening counterexample – others just seem to be based on: "I like cash, dunno why".Leon said:
I've gone months in London without using cash. I always do have some, but it can stay unspent in my pocket for entire seasonsAnabobazina said:
Indeed. And it's risky, carrying it around. I imagine 'petty' robberies (in the absence of a more appropriate term) are much more prevalent in those countries where cash is the norm.Leon said:
Plus you can lose cash, it's a hassle to change it, you put it in the washing machine by mistake, and so on and so forthAnabobazina said:
It really is. A total timer waster –– "oh I have to go to the bank machine, where is the bank machine? Dunno, oh it's x miles away"Leon said:
In Thailand it is still 80% cash at least. It is really quite annoying have to go back to paper wads (let alone meaningless coins). It made me realise that cash is definitely doomed. Cash is a total painAnabobazina said:
I haven't carried a wallet for nearly two years. Both my watch and phone make payments so what exactly is the point of carting around a load of pointless plastic and paper?Cookie said:
Really?Anabobazina said:Re: cash, someone said to me the other day, have you seen the 'new' 50pm coin?
I replied that I hadn't seen it, nor a 50p coin of any kind, old, middle-aged or new, for about a decade.
Up until 2020, I had a coin jar, which accumulated change through the year and was periodically taken to the bank - it used to get about £400 a year in change. Since the pandemic, it no longer builds up ,and I have to go out of my way from time to time to get change to keep it stocked. But I do still need coins, for reasons including, er:
- transactions with children (the tooth fairy doesn't bring plastic)
- tips in restaurants (I want my money to go to the specific waiter/waitress who provided the service)
- buskers
- parking (most car parks accept payment by app but that is a massive pain in the arse, particularly if I don't have my glasses with me)
- filling a pint glass with, then pissing in it and throwing it from on high at 15 year old girls who have a different favourite football team to me (joking - I'm not a Liverpool fan).
It's not a massive list. But cash isn't dead yet.
EDIT: All that said, upon meeting a colleague for the first time in 2 years recently, I was shocked to find he no longer even carries a wallet - just does everything on his phone. Does he not worry about running out of battery? Does he not worry about losing his phone? Does he not worry about having his phone but not his glasses? Apparently not. Not for me, Clive.
Absolutely ridiculous persisting with it nowadays.
Cash is doomed, the same way real gold and silver coins were doomed back in the day, and the value of notes and coins became notional
It's rare among my friends that anyone carries cash – as it's pointless in London.
It just seems mad to believe that in twenty years we will still be reaching in purses and counting out bits of paper and circles of metal. I do sympathise with sad stories like that of @ManchesterKurt below - that's awful - but I don't see that stopping inevitable progress
What might kill cash off eventually is the number of bank branches that are being closed, which will make it much more difficult to obtain and secure it. That's what's happening in say, North Wales. And that is not because of the merits or demerits of physical cash but because (1) branches being shut down, however well-used, reduces overheads dramatically and (b) banks can charge more in card transaction fees than in cash deposit fees.
London is not a typical example and should also never be used as such. It's much more crowded, much more expensive and much younger than the average town in the UK, including for things like food and transport (coins are still needed for many bus journeys round here). It's therefore less practical to use cash and the population tends to be more addicted to their phones in any case. That doesn't mean just because London is moving towards cashlessness everywhere else will as well.
I haven't used cash for anything, anywhere in the UK, and haven't needed to. The idea that rural areas are still cash-only holdouts is an utter fantasy.
It was noticeable and I remember it precisely because it seemed so odd - to everyone. Actual Cash!
This is going to be a problem going forward for the very few who have no alternative to cash.
Now it's a shock to be asked for cash in most places. Haircuts are also the one place I usually need cash - are they all dodging tax?
At least you know he's not a tax dodger if he takes bank transfers. Or at least is clever about giving the appearance he's not one.0 -
I ahve had few and far between in last few years, last one was Hospice Lottery and I just told them to keep the money.ydoethur said:
For a cheque to be received, somebody has to send it. So it's not *one* person, by definition.Anabobazina said:
So you are the one who still uses them.ydoethur said:
I get paid by cheque.Anabobazina said:
Why? Would you allow people to pay in postal orders or cheques or similarly obsolete payments?Selebian said:
If there's contactless (hell, even chip and pin) then I'm not too bothered about what else is available. Cash for those who prefer/need that should also be provided, I think.Pulpstar said:
Contactless is great. Phone apps for carparking just shouldn't be allowed. For one thing your debit card won't go out of battery for that 1% of time your phone is out of juice and you can't phone tap the contactless.Tres said:Council round here has moved to phone apps entirely for parking, even though they had machines available which could take contactless payments. Bonkers.
The frustrating thing is that any halfway decent parking app standard would be more convenient for most. Car reg(s) stored in app. Location services pinpoint the car park (or some NFC thing to swipe at worst). Choose your time and go, automatic payment. Extendable without returning to the car park. No queues. Many benefits. The current shit-show is not necessary.
Just saying...
I've had quite a lot of cheques recently, if only because for charities it's still simpler to double-authorise by signing a cheque twice than setting up payments online. But I also had one for over £50,000 from Barclays Bank.0 -
This comes from the More in Common thinktank https://www.moreincommon.org.uk/Andy_JS said:"@PollingReportUK
NEW POLL - Westminster voting intention:
LAB: 44%
CON: 30%
LIB: 10%
GREEN: 6%
REFORM: 5%
SNP: 3%
OTHER: 1%"
https://twitter.com/PollingReportUK/status/1646479319839956994
There is an interesting graphic from the poll relating to the different segments of our society.
1 -
The Wall Street Journal on Macron:
@DJMatthewDalton
Macron has banned 32 civic groups in his six years, more than any other president in modern French history. It's a measure of how expansively he has wielded the vast powers of the French presidency. Some say it's time to rein in the office.
https://twitter.com/DJMatthewDalton/status/16464385172816404501 -
With difficulty - what happens is the BT broadband goes down switching to the backup router - but the card machine doesn't like it so (from what I was told) you need to reboot the card reader in a particular way.OldKingCole said:J
Where do you have to thump one of those machines to get it working?eek said:
Comment from my corner shop yesterday - he lost £500 or so of sales when the card machine went down for an hour on Sunday.Pagan2 said:
You would have been stuck last week then here as the local shop to me was cash only for 2 days as their machine wasn't working. Only other option was to get a bus to town or go without.....luckily I pretty much use cash for all my day to day purchases so I was ok......other people expecting to be able to pay cashlessly were so out of luck......next time I will take a deckchair round and some beer and taunt them mercilesslyAnabobazina said:
Everywhere is MOVING TOWARDS cashlessness and to claim otherwise is to deny the clear evidence in front of you. As much as it might not appeal to your prejudices, I leave London regularly – particularly for hiking and biking tours in high-country remote places.ydoethur said:
I use cash, because as has been patiently explained to you before, outside Extortion City there are still lots of places that don't take cards because it's much more expensive particularly for small transactions. I know that a study put forward by the main card clearing house said otherwise but it was patently not telling the truth (as in, had forged its figures).Anabobazina said:
Agree entirely. In fact @ManchesterKurt has given an excellent if saddening counterexample – others just seem to be based on: "I like cash, dunno why".Leon said:
I've gone months in London without using cash. I always do have some, but it can stay unspent in my pocket for entire seasonsAnabobazina said:
Indeed. And it's risky, carrying it around. I imagine 'petty' robberies (in the absence of a more appropriate term) are much more prevalent in those countries where cash is the norm.Leon said:
Plus you can lose cash, it's a hassle to change it, you put it in the washing machine by mistake, and so on and so forthAnabobazina said:
It really is. A total timer waster –– "oh I have to go to the bank machine, where is the bank machine? Dunno, oh it's x miles away"Leon said:
In Thailand it is still 80% cash at least. It is really quite annoying have to go back to paper wads (let alone meaningless coins). It made me realise that cash is definitely doomed. Cash is a total painAnabobazina said:
I haven't carried a wallet for nearly two years. Both my watch and phone make payments so what exactly is the point of carting around a load of pointless plastic and paper?Cookie said:
Really?Anabobazina said:Re: cash, someone said to me the other day, have you seen the 'new' 50pm coin?
I replied that I hadn't seen it, nor a 50p coin of any kind, old, middle-aged or new, for about a decade.
Up until 2020, I had a coin jar, which accumulated change through the year and was periodically taken to the bank - it used to get about £400 a year in change. Since the pandemic, it no longer builds up ,and I have to go out of my way from time to time to get change to keep it stocked. But I do still need coins, for reasons including, er:
- transactions with children (the tooth fairy doesn't bring plastic)
- tips in restaurants (I want my money to go to the specific waiter/waitress who provided the service)
- buskers
- parking (most car parks accept payment by app but that is a massive pain in the arse, particularly if I don't have my glasses with me)
- filling a pint glass with, then pissing in it and throwing it from on high at 15 year old girls who have a different favourite football team to me (joking - I'm not a Liverpool fan).
It's not a massive list. But cash isn't dead yet.
EDIT: All that said, upon meeting a colleague for the first time in 2 years recently, I was shocked to find he no longer even carries a wallet - just does everything on his phone. Does he not worry about running out of battery? Does he not worry about losing his phone? Does he not worry about having his phone but not his glasses? Apparently not. Not for me, Clive.
Absolutely ridiculous persisting with it nowadays.
Cash is doomed, the same way real gold and silver coins were doomed back in the day, and the value of notes and coins became notional
It's rare among my friends that anyone carries cash – as it's pointless in London.
It just seems mad to believe that in twenty years we will still be reaching in purses and counting out bits of paper and circles of metal. I do sympathise with sad stories like that of @ManchesterKurt below - that's awful - but I don't see that stopping inevitable progress
What might kill cash off eventually is the number of bank branches that are being closed, which will make it much more difficult to obtain and secure it. That's what's happening in say, North Wales. And that is not because of the merits or demerits of physical cash but because (1) branches being shut down, however well-used, reduces overheads dramatically and (b) banks can charge more in card transaction fees than in cash deposit fees.
London is not a typical example and should also never be used as such. It's much more crowded, much more expensive and much younger than the average town in the UK, including for things like food and transport (coins are still needed for many bus journeys round here). It's therefore less practical to use cash and the population tends to be more addicted to their phones in any case. That doesn't mean just because London is moving towards cashlessness everywhere else will as well.
I haven't used cash for anything, anywhere in the UK, and haven't needed to. The idea that rural areas are still cash-only holdouts is an utter fantasy.
His annoyance was that his wife didn't call him to ask how to fix it and just said cash only...
0 -
The "never or rarely" number was 23 million people last year, with only 15% of all transactions in cash. That's expected to fall to 6% by 2032. At what stage do we have a national debate about abolishing it?Pagan2 said:
The number who never use cash isn't even 50% of people. The cashless are still the minority cash users are not a tiny proportion.Anabobazina said:
It's going to become a big policy question, probably fairly soon. Cash is dying. A large and growing proportion of the population never or rarely use it. It's like analogue telly – getting the holdouts to switch to digital was vexatious for a while, but it happened. Retaining cash when a tiny proportion of the population use it will be akin to retaining analogue telly.Pagan2 said:
I am curious why you are strident on this issue, most of those saying they should be able to continue to pay cash aren't telling you that you must use cash. They are just saying they want to retain the right to use cash instead of card/phone whatever.Anabobazina said:
I'm not calling you a liar, simply challenging the idea that they wouldn't learn to budget were cash unavailable. People adapt. Seatbelt paradox.Driver said:
Bills go out the day after payday, then they withdraw whatever's left in cash and budget accordingly.Anabobazina said:
I struggle with the veracity of such anecdotes. Do they pay their monthly bills by cash, at a post office? Their TV licence? Their mortgage? Their rent? How many people as a proportion of the UK population operate only in cash – and how exactly do they string a life together?Driver said:
Absolutely - I know a few people who like to use cash for budgeting because paying by card doesn't feel like spending money.ManchesterKurt said:
Because there will always be a proportion of the population that require cash as they are unable to deal with more modern ways of budgeting.Anabobazina said:
Why? Would you allow people to pay in postal orders or cheques or similarly obsolete payments?Selebian said:
If there's contactless (hell, even chip and pin) then I'm not too bothered about what else is available. Cash for those who prefer/need that should also be provided, I think.Pulpstar said:
Contactless is great. Phone apps for carparking just shouldn't be allowed. For one thing your debit card won't go out of battery for that 1% of time your phone is out of juice and you can't phone tap the contactless.Tres said:Council round here has moved to phone apps entirely for parking, even though they had machines available which could take contactless payments. Bonkers.
The frustrating thing is that any halfway decent parking app standard would be more convenient for most. Car reg(s) stored in app. Location services pinpoint the car park (or some NFC thing to swipe at worst). Choose your time and go, automatic payment. Extendable without returning to the car park. No queues. Many benefits. The current shit-show is not necessary.
My wife had a very severe stroke 5 years ago and has left her with tremendous mental issues, she cannot understand the difference between up or down, left or right, forwards or backwards. She cannot unlock doors, she cannot leave the house alone.
But she does have a level of financial independence as each month we take some money out of her bank and over the month she manages her spend as she can touch, feel and see her money.
My wife could not deal with a card (if nothing else her eye sight is so poor she cannot see the numbers on the keypads), take away cash and you take away about the only thing in her life that she has any level of independence over.
My wife may be a very extreme case, but there are probably far more people at that end of the spectrum than you would imagine.
Obviously, people who don't need to worry about having month left at the end of the money can merrily tap away.
You can call me a liar if you want.
So if no one is saying you have to be made to use cash...why are you so fervent on stopping those that want the option to continue having the option to use cash?
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2022/aug/18/uk-cashless-society-a-step-closer-as-more-than-23m-people-abandon-coins
0 -
I'm surprised. BG switched us onto payments direct to the bank account for FiT payments some time ago now.Selebian said:
Our solar panel FiT payments still come by cheque. Only four times per year and with cheque scanning in bank apps it's not a big issue. About the only cheques we receive now.Carnyx said:
You'd be surprised how many banks insist on sending cheques by post to close accounts. Ditto shares handling companies - I forget the technical term.Anabobazina said:
Then Barclays are hypocrites – the retail banks want cheques abolished and as I recall almost succeeded in their bid several years ago. The government backed down at the last minute if memory serves me right.ydoethur said:
For a cheque to be received, somebody has to send it. So it's not *one* person, by definition.Anabobazina said:
So you are the one who still uses them.ydoethur said:
I get paid by cheque.Anabobazina said:
Why? Would you allow people to pay in postal orders or cheques or similarly obsolete payments?Selebian said:
If there's contactless (hell, even chip and pin) then I'm not too bothered about what else is available. Cash for those who prefer/need that should also be provided, I think.Pulpstar said:
Contactless is great. Phone apps for carparking just shouldn't be allowed. For one thing your debit card won't go out of battery for that 1% of time your phone is out of juice and you can't phone tap the contactless.Tres said:Council round here has moved to phone apps entirely for parking, even though they had machines available which could take contactless payments. Bonkers.
The frustrating thing is that any halfway decent parking app standard would be more convenient for most. Car reg(s) stored in app. Location services pinpoint the car park (or some NFC thing to swipe at worst). Choose your time and go, automatic payment. Extendable without returning to the car park. No queues. Many benefits. The current shit-show is not necessary.
Just saying...
I've had quite a lot of cheques recently, if only because for charities it's still simpler to double-authorise by signing a cheque twice than setting up payments online. But I also had one for over £50,000 from Barclays Bank.
(I assume that the payer, BG, does it this way as some people fail to cash the cheques, but who knows. I've not cared enough to battle customer services to ask about electronic options)0 -
Card transaction fees are more than direct deposit transaction fees.Driver said:
My barber doesn't take cards but does take bank transfers, which I've never quite got my head around.Selebian said:
Surprising how things have changed in a decade. I was in Stockholm for work in 2010, arrived on delayed flight (snow at UK airport) very late and grabbed a cab from the centre to where I was staying with colleague - original plan was colleague to pick me up, but it was late, his wife was out on shift and young children so he culdn't leave as he would have done earlier. Asked for them to stop at a cash machine on the way so I could pay, only to find they had a card machine on-board. Seemed futuristic at the time; I'd never encountered that in UK.kjh said:
In the last few years I have only used cash for a haircut (yep I don't know why they only take cash). I did a holiday in Iceland a few years ago and never used cash once; I didn't have any. Adnams will not take cash in their pubs.Leon said:
I've just spent about two weeks going around Cornwall - from little villages to bigger towns. I needed cash just once - in a cafe in a remote cove - but that was only because their wifi was down so the machine would not workAnabobazina said:
Everywhere is MOVING TOWARDS cashlessness and to claim otherwise is to deny the clear evidence in front of you. As much as it might not appeal to your prejudices, I leave London regularly – particularly for hiking and biking tours in high-country remote places.ydoethur said:
I use cash, because as has been patiently explained to you before, outside Extortion City there are still lots of places that don't take cards because it's much more expensive particularly for small transactions. I know that a study put forward by the main card clearing house said otherwise but it was patently not telling the truth (as in, had forged its figures).Anabobazina said:
Agree entirely. In fact @ManchesterKurt has given an excellent if saddening counterexample – others just seem to be based on: "I like cash, dunno why".Leon said:
I've gone months in London without using cash. I always do have some, but it can stay unspent in my pocket for entire seasonsAnabobazina said:
Indeed. And it's risky, carrying it around. I imagine 'petty' robberies (in the absence of a more appropriate term) are much more prevalent in those countries where cash is the norm.Leon said:
Plus you can lose cash, it's a hassle to change it, you put it in the washing machine by mistake, and so on and so forthAnabobazina said:
It really is. A total timer waster –– "oh I have to go to the bank machine, where is the bank machine? Dunno, oh it's x miles away"Leon said:
In Thailand it is still 80% cash at least. It is really quite annoying have to go back to paper wads (let alone meaningless coins). It made me realise that cash is definitely doomed. Cash is a total painAnabobazina said:
I haven't carried a wallet for nearly two years. Both my watch and phone make payments so what exactly is the point of carting around a load of pointless plastic and paper?Cookie said:
Really?Anabobazina said:Re: cash, someone said to me the other day, have you seen the 'new' 50pm coin?
I replied that I hadn't seen it, nor a 50p coin of any kind, old, middle-aged or new, for about a decade.
Up until 2020, I had a coin jar, which accumulated change through the year and was periodically taken to the bank - it used to get about £400 a year in change. Since the pandemic, it no longer builds up ,and I have to go out of my way from time to time to get change to keep it stocked. But I do still need coins, for reasons including, er:
- transactions with children (the tooth fairy doesn't bring plastic)
- tips in restaurants (I want my money to go to the specific waiter/waitress who provided the service)
- buskers
- parking (most car parks accept payment by app but that is a massive pain in the arse, particularly if I don't have my glasses with me)
- filling a pint glass with, then pissing in it and throwing it from on high at 15 year old girls who have a different favourite football team to me (joking - I'm not a Liverpool fan).
It's not a massive list. But cash isn't dead yet.
EDIT: All that said, upon meeting a colleague for the first time in 2 years recently, I was shocked to find he no longer even carries a wallet - just does everything on his phone. Does he not worry about running out of battery? Does he not worry about losing his phone? Does he not worry about having his phone but not his glasses? Apparently not. Not for me, Clive.
Absolutely ridiculous persisting with it nowadays.
Cash is doomed, the same way real gold and silver coins were doomed back in the day, and the value of notes and coins became notional
It's rare among my friends that anyone carries cash – as it's pointless in London.
It just seems mad to believe that in twenty years we will still be reaching in purses and counting out bits of paper and circles of metal. I do sympathise with sad stories like that of @ManchesterKurt below - that's awful - but I don't see that stopping inevitable progress
What might kill cash off eventually is the number of bank branches that are being closed, which will make it much more difficult to obtain and secure it. That's what's happening in say, North Wales. And that is not because of the merits or demerits of physical cash but because (1) branches being shut down, however well-used, reduces overheads dramatically and (b) banks can charge more in card transaction fees than in cash deposit fees.
London is not a typical example and should also never be used as such. It's much more crowded, much more expensive and much younger than the average town in the UK, including for things like food and transport (coins are still needed for many bus journeys round here). It's therefore less practical to use cash and the population tends to be more addicted to their phones in any case. That doesn't mean just because London is moving towards cashlessness everywhere else will as well.
I haven't used cash for anything, anywhere in the UK, and haven't needed to. The idea that rural areas are still cash-only holdouts is an utter fantasy.
It was noticeable and I remember it precisely because it seemed so odd - to everyone. Actual Cash!
This is going to be a problem going forward for the very few who have no alternative to cash.
Now it's a shock to be asked for cash in most places. Haircuts are also the one place I usually need cash - are they all dodging tax?0 -
If you were living in poverty and had a very limited budget you would know. It mustbe tough at the bottome where you have to count every pound.Anabobazina said:
I struggle with the veracity of such anecdotes. Do they pay their monthly bills by cash, at a post office? Their TV licence? Their mortgage? Their rent? How many people as a proportion of the UK population operate only in cash – and how exactly do they string a life together?Driver said:
Absolutely - I know a few people who like to use cash for budgeting because paying by card doesn't feel like spending money.ManchesterKurt said:
Because there will always be a proportion of the population that require cash as they are unable to deal with more modern ways of budgeting.Anabobazina said:
Why? Would you allow people to pay in postal orders or cheques or similarly obsolete payments?Selebian said:
If there's contactless (hell, even chip and pin) then I'm not too bothered about what else is available. Cash for those who prefer/need that should also be provided, I think.Pulpstar said:
Contactless is great. Phone apps for carparking just shouldn't be allowed. For one thing your debit card won't go out of battery for that 1% of time your phone is out of juice and you can't phone tap the contactless.Tres said:Council round here has moved to phone apps entirely for parking, even though they had machines available which could take contactless payments. Bonkers.
The frustrating thing is that any halfway decent parking app standard would be more convenient for most. Car reg(s) stored in app. Location services pinpoint the car park (or some NFC thing to swipe at worst). Choose your time and go, automatic payment. Extendable without returning to the car park. No queues. Many benefits. The current shit-show is not necessary.
My wife had a very severe stroke 5 years ago and has left her with tremendous mental issues, she cannot understand the difference between up or down, left or right, forwards or backwards. She cannot unlock doors, she cannot leave the house alone.
But she does have a level of financial independence as each month we take some money out of her bank and over the month she manages her spend as she can touch, feel and see her money.
My wife could not deal with a card (if nothing else her eye sight is so poor she cannot see the numbers on the keypads), take away cash and you take away about the only thing in her life that she has any level of independence over.
My wife may be a very extreme case, but there are probably far more people at that end of the spectrum than you would imagine.
Obviously, people who don't need to worry about having month left at the end of the money can merrily tap away.0 -
I would be "rarely". That doesn't mean I think abolishing cash is acceptable.Anabobazina said:
The "never or rarely" number was 23 million people last year, with only 15% of all transactions in cash. That's expected to fall to 6% by 2032. At what stage do we have a national debate about abolishing it?Pagan2 said:
The number who never use cash isn't even 50% of people. The cashless are still the minority cash users are not a tiny proportion.Anabobazina said:
It's going to become a big policy question, probably fairly soon. Cash is dying. A large and growing proportion of the population never or rarely use it. It's like analogue telly – getting the holdouts to switch to digital was vexatious for a while, but it happened. Retaining cash when a tiny proportion of the population use it will be akin to retaining analogue telly.Pagan2 said:
I am curious why you are strident on this issue, most of those saying they should be able to continue to pay cash aren't telling you that you must use cash. They are just saying they want to retain the right to use cash instead of card/phone whatever.Anabobazina said:
I'm not calling you a liar, simply challenging the idea that they wouldn't learn to budget were cash unavailable. People adapt. Seatbelt paradox.Driver said:
Bills go out the day after payday, then they withdraw whatever's left in cash and budget accordingly.Anabobazina said:
I struggle with the veracity of such anecdotes. Do they pay their monthly bills by cash, at a post office? Their TV licence? Their mortgage? Their rent? How many people as a proportion of the UK population operate only in cash – and how exactly do they string a life together?Driver said:
Absolutely - I know a few people who like to use cash for budgeting because paying by card doesn't feel like spending money.ManchesterKurt said:
Because there will always be a proportion of the population that require cash as they are unable to deal with more modern ways of budgeting.Anabobazina said:
Why? Would you allow people to pay in postal orders or cheques or similarly obsolete payments?Selebian said:
If there's contactless (hell, even chip and pin) then I'm not too bothered about what else is available. Cash for those who prefer/need that should also be provided, I think.Pulpstar said:
Contactless is great. Phone apps for carparking just shouldn't be allowed. For one thing your debit card won't go out of battery for that 1% of time your phone is out of juice and you can't phone tap the contactless.Tres said:Council round here has moved to phone apps entirely for parking, even though they had machines available which could take contactless payments. Bonkers.
The frustrating thing is that any halfway decent parking app standard would be more convenient for most. Car reg(s) stored in app. Location services pinpoint the car park (or some NFC thing to swipe at worst). Choose your time and go, automatic payment. Extendable without returning to the car park. No queues. Many benefits. The current shit-show is not necessary.
My wife had a very severe stroke 5 years ago and has left her with tremendous mental issues, she cannot understand the difference between up or down, left or right, forwards or backwards. She cannot unlock doors, she cannot leave the house alone.
But she does have a level of financial independence as each month we take some money out of her bank and over the month she manages her spend as she can touch, feel and see her money.
My wife could not deal with a card (if nothing else her eye sight is so poor she cannot see the numbers on the keypads), take away cash and you take away about the only thing in her life that she has any level of independence over.
My wife may be a very extreme case, but there are probably far more people at that end of the spectrum than you would imagine.
Obviously, people who don't need to worry about having month left at the end of the money can merrily tap away.
You can call me a liar if you want.
So if no one is saying you have to be made to use cash...why are you so fervent on stopping those that want the option to continue having the option to use cash?
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2022/aug/18/uk-cashless-society-a-step-closer-as-more-than-23m-people-abandon-coins0 -
Yes, me too.kinabalu said:The pandemic killed my cash habit. I used to use it a lot, far more than most, just liked doing it, nice crisp notes, nice shiny coins, but come Covid and the consequent urge to not touch things others had touched I went card only, and now the thought of carrying cash around seems weird. I took £20 out of a machine in Feb 2020 and I still have it sitting there in a drawer. I think I do anyway ... let me just go and check ... yep it's still there. £20.
It wasn't the handling money aspect. It was the reset. All my life I'd been handling money most days. Then commercial activity was shut down. Only, in practice, for a few weeks - but when it started back up, those retailers in the vanguard were urging contactless, and the contactless limit had been increased. Before that, cash was a habit. I didn't love cash, but it was perfectly adequate for my uses and didn't require glasses. Now, contactless is the default.
Contactless actually causes me physical discomfort - I have to peer intently at the tiny number on the back of my debit cards to make sure I'm using the right one for the transaction (is this for me, or for us? My account or joint account?) - and with eyesight as rubbish as mine this hurts. But I still do it, because it's the habit now.
I'm sure if there's some massive tech outage which temporarily means cash transactions for a few weeks I'd get back into the habit of using cash, and that would become the default again.2 -
I like to have 50 quid or so in cash on me in case of emergency.kinabalu said:The pandemic killed my cash habit. I used to use it a lot, far more than most, just liked doing it, nice crisp notes, nice shiny coins, but come Covid and the consequent urge to not touch things others had touched I went card only, and now the thought of carrying cash around seems weird. I took £20 out of a machine in Feb 2020 and I still have it sitting there in a drawer. I think I do anyway ... let me just go and check ... yep it's still there. £20.
2 -
No fees on bank transfers, but there are fees for cards?Driver said:
My barber doesn't take cards but does take bank transfers, which I've never quite got my head around.Selebian said:
Surprising how things have changed in a decade. I was in Stockholm for work in 2010, arrived on delayed flight (snow at UK airport) very late and grabbed a cab from the centre to where I was staying with colleague - original plan was colleague to pick me up, but it was late, his wife was out on shift and young children so he culdn't leave as he would have done earlier. Asked for them to stop at a cash machine on the way so I could pay, only to find they had a card machine on-board. Seemed futuristic at the time; I'd never encountered that in UK.kjh said:
In the last few years I have only used cash for a haircut (yep I don't know why they only take cash). I did a holiday in Iceland a few years ago and never used cash once; I didn't have any. Adnams will not take cash in their pubs.Leon said:
I've just spent about two weeks going around Cornwall - from little villages to bigger towns. I needed cash just once - in a cafe in a remote cove - but that was only because their wifi was down so the machine would not workAnabobazina said:
Everywhere is MOVING TOWARDS cashlessness and to claim otherwise is to deny the clear evidence in front of you. As much as it might not appeal to your prejudices, I leave London regularly – particularly for hiking and biking tours in high-country remote places.ydoethur said:
I use cash, because as has been patiently explained to you before, outside Extortion City there are still lots of places that don't take cards because it's much more expensive particularly for small transactions. I know that a study put forward by the main card clearing house said otherwise but it was patently not telling the truth (as in, had forged its figures).Anabobazina said:
Agree entirely. In fact @ManchesterKurt has given an excellent if saddening counterexample – others just seem to be based on: "I like cash, dunno why".Leon said:
I've gone months in London without using cash. I always do have some, but it can stay unspent in my pocket for entire seasonsAnabobazina said:
Indeed. And it's risky, carrying it around. I imagine 'petty' robberies (in the absence of a more appropriate term) are much more prevalent in those countries where cash is the norm.Leon said:
Plus you can lose cash, it's a hassle to change it, you put it in the washing machine by mistake, and so on and so forthAnabobazina said:
It really is. A total timer waster –– "oh I have to go to the bank machine, where is the bank machine? Dunno, oh it's x miles away"Leon said:
In Thailand it is still 80% cash at least. It is really quite annoying have to go back to paper wads (let alone meaningless coins). It made me realise that cash is definitely doomed. Cash is a total painAnabobazina said:
I haven't carried a wallet for nearly two years. Both my watch and phone make payments so what exactly is the point of carting around a load of pointless plastic and paper?Cookie said:
Really?Anabobazina said:Re: cash, someone said to me the other day, have you seen the 'new' 50pm coin?
I replied that I hadn't seen it, nor a 50p coin of any kind, old, middle-aged or new, for about a decade.
Up until 2020, I had a coin jar, which accumulated change through the year and was periodically taken to the bank - it used to get about £400 a year in change. Since the pandemic, it no longer builds up ,and I have to go out of my way from time to time to get change to keep it stocked. But I do still need coins, for reasons including, er:
- transactions with children (the tooth fairy doesn't bring plastic)
- tips in restaurants (I want my money to go to the specific waiter/waitress who provided the service)
- buskers
- parking (most car parks accept payment by app but that is a massive pain in the arse, particularly if I don't have my glasses with me)
- filling a pint glass with, then pissing in it and throwing it from on high at 15 year old girls who have a different favourite football team to me (joking - I'm not a Liverpool fan).
It's not a massive list. But cash isn't dead yet.
EDIT: All that said, upon meeting a colleague for the first time in 2 years recently, I was shocked to find he no longer even carries a wallet - just does everything on his phone. Does he not worry about running out of battery? Does he not worry about losing his phone? Does he not worry about having his phone but not his glasses? Apparently not. Not for me, Clive.
Absolutely ridiculous persisting with it nowadays.
Cash is doomed, the same way real gold and silver coins were doomed back in the day, and the value of notes and coins became notional
It's rare among my friends that anyone carries cash – as it's pointless in London.
It just seems mad to believe that in twenty years we will still be reaching in purses and counting out bits of paper and circles of metal. I do sympathise with sad stories like that of @ManchesterKurt below - that's awful - but I don't see that stopping inevitable progress
What might kill cash off eventually is the number of bank branches that are being closed, which will make it much more difficult to obtain and secure it. That's what's happening in say, North Wales. And that is not because of the merits or demerits of physical cash but because (1) branches being shut down, however well-used, reduces overheads dramatically and (b) banks can charge more in card transaction fees than in cash deposit fees.
London is not a typical example and should also never be used as such. It's much more crowded, much more expensive and much younger than the average town in the UK, including for things like food and transport (coins are still needed for many bus journeys round here). It's therefore less practical to use cash and the population tends to be more addicted to their phones in any case. That doesn't mean just because London is moving towards cashlessness everywhere else will as well.
I haven't used cash for anything, anywhere in the UK, and haven't needed to. The idea that rural areas are still cash-only holdouts is an utter fantasy.
It was noticeable and I remember it precisely because it seemed so odd - to everyone. Actual Cash!
This is going to be a problem going forward for the very few who have no alternative to cash.
Now it's a shock to be asked for cash in most places. Haircuts are also the one place I usually need cash - are they all dodging tax?
Re cash v card, the card fees are probably less than the hassle of cash, but unless you stop taking cash completely you still have at least some of that hassle.0 -
6% is still 6 billion transactions a sizeable number.....23m use cash not at all or just once a month.....therefore 44m use cash more than once a month....as I said you are the minority you cash free hipster....what will happen is the same as with smart phones, cashless will increase to a certain amount and then plateau and you will never be free of cash and its something you really should be grateful for.....you don't need to use cash but if an authoritarian government that would use a fully trackable payments system if it existed gets in you will be able to drop back to cash and think "thank fuck they didn't listen to my evangelism".Anabobazina said:
The "never or rarely" number was 23 million people last year, with only 15% of all transactions in cash. That's expected to fall to 6% by 2032. At what stage do we have a national debate about abolishing it?Pagan2 said:
The number who never use cash isn't even 50% of people. The cashless are still the minority cash users are not a tiny proportion.Anabobazina said:
It's going to become a big policy question, probably fairly soon. Cash is dying. A large and growing proportion of the population never or rarely use it. It's like analogue telly – getting the holdouts to switch to digital was vexatious for a while, but it happened. Retaining cash when a tiny proportion of the population use it will be akin to retaining analogue telly.Pagan2 said:
I am curious why you are strident on this issue, most of those saying they should be able to continue to pay cash aren't telling you that you must use cash. They are just saying they want to retain the right to use cash instead of card/phone whatever.Anabobazina said:
I'm not calling you a liar, simply challenging the idea that they wouldn't learn to budget were cash unavailable. People adapt. Seatbelt paradox.Driver said:
Bills go out the day after payday, then they withdraw whatever's left in cash and budget accordingly.Anabobazina said:
I struggle with the veracity of such anecdotes. Do they pay their monthly bills by cash, at a post office? Their TV licence? Their mortgage? Their rent? How many people as a proportion of the UK population operate only in cash – and how exactly do they string a life together?Driver said:
Absolutely - I know a few people who like to use cash for budgeting because paying by card doesn't feel like spending money.ManchesterKurt said:
Because there will always be a proportion of the population that require cash as they are unable to deal with more modern ways of budgeting.Anabobazina said:
Why? Would you allow people to pay in postal orders or cheques or similarly obsolete payments?Selebian said:
If there's contactless (hell, even chip and pin) then I'm not too bothered about what else is available. Cash for those who prefer/need that should also be provided, I think.Pulpstar said:
Contactless is great. Phone apps for carparking just shouldn't be allowed. For one thing your debit card won't go out of battery for that 1% of time your phone is out of juice and you can't phone tap the contactless.Tres said:Council round here has moved to phone apps entirely for parking, even though they had machines available which could take contactless payments. Bonkers.
The frustrating thing is that any halfway decent parking app standard would be more convenient for most. Car reg(s) stored in app. Location services pinpoint the car park (or some NFC thing to swipe at worst). Choose your time and go, automatic payment. Extendable without returning to the car park. No queues. Many benefits. The current shit-show is not necessary.
My wife had a very severe stroke 5 years ago and has left her with tremendous mental issues, she cannot understand the difference between up or down, left or right, forwards or backwards. She cannot unlock doors, she cannot leave the house alone.
But she does have a level of financial independence as each month we take some money out of her bank and over the month she manages her spend as she can touch, feel and see her money.
My wife could not deal with a card (if nothing else her eye sight is so poor she cannot see the numbers on the keypads), take away cash and you take away about the only thing in her life that she has any level of independence over.
My wife may be a very extreme case, but there are probably far more people at that end of the spectrum than you would imagine.
Obviously, people who don't need to worry about having month left at the end of the money can merrily tap away.
You can call me a liar if you want.
So if no one is saying you have to be made to use cash...why are you so fervent on stopping those that want the option to continue having the option to use cash?
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2022/aug/18/uk-cashless-society-a-step-closer-as-more-than-23m-people-abandon-coins
Go use you devices we don't care and no thoughts of coercing you to use cash. Just keep your hands of our option to use cash if we want.0 -
Interesting. Maybe I should check then. Though inertia may win - finding the right person at BG versus a few seconds to scan a cheque every three months...DayTripper said:
I'm surprised. BG switched us onto payments direct to the bank account for FiT payments some time ago now.Selebian said:
Our solar panel FiT payments still come by cheque. Only four times per year and with cheque scanning in bank apps it's not a big issue. About the only cheques we receive now.Carnyx said:
You'd be surprised how many banks insist on sending cheques by post to close accounts. Ditto shares handling companies - I forget the technical term.Anabobazina said:
Then Barclays are hypocrites – the retail banks want cheques abolished and as I recall almost succeeded in their bid several years ago. The government backed down at the last minute if memory serves me right.ydoethur said:
For a cheque to be received, somebody has to send it. So it's not *one* person, by definition.Anabobazina said:
So you are the one who still uses them.ydoethur said:
I get paid by cheque.Anabobazina said:
Why? Would you allow people to pay in postal orders or cheques or similarly obsolete payments?Selebian said:
If there's contactless (hell, even chip and pin) then I'm not too bothered about what else is available. Cash for those who prefer/need that should also be provided, I think.Pulpstar said:
Contactless is great. Phone apps for carparking just shouldn't be allowed. For one thing your debit card won't go out of battery for that 1% of time your phone is out of juice and you can't phone tap the contactless.Tres said:Council round here has moved to phone apps entirely for parking, even though they had machines available which could take contactless payments. Bonkers.
The frustrating thing is that any halfway decent parking app standard would be more convenient for most. Car reg(s) stored in app. Location services pinpoint the car park (or some NFC thing to swipe at worst). Choose your time and go, automatic payment. Extendable without returning to the car park. No queues. Many benefits. The current shit-show is not necessary.
Just saying...
I've had quite a lot of cheques recently, if only because for charities it's still simpler to double-authorise by signing a cheque twice than setting up payments online. But I also had one for over £50,000 from Barclays Bank.
(I assume that the payer, BG, does it this way as some people fail to cash the cheques, but who knows. I've not cared enough to battle customer services to ask about electronic options)0 -
It wasnt rarely that is Anabob misrepresentingDriver said:
I would be "rarely". That doesn't mean I think abolishing cash is acceptable.Anabobazina said:
The "never or rarely" number was 23 million people last year, with only 15% of all transactions in cash. That's expected to fall to 6% by 2032. At what stage do we have a national debate about abolishing it?Pagan2 said:
The number who never use cash isn't even 50% of people. The cashless are still the minority cash users are not a tiny proportion.Anabobazina said:
It's going to become a big policy question, probably fairly soon. Cash is dying. A large and growing proportion of the population never or rarely use it. It's like analogue telly – getting the holdouts to switch to digital was vexatious for a while, but it happened. Retaining cash when a tiny proportion of the population use it will be akin to retaining analogue telly.Pagan2 said:
I am curious why you are strident on this issue, most of those saying they should be able to continue to pay cash aren't telling you that you must use cash. They are just saying they want to retain the right to use cash instead of card/phone whatever.Anabobazina said:
I'm not calling you a liar, simply challenging the idea that they wouldn't learn to budget were cash unavailable. People adapt. Seatbelt paradox.Driver said:
Bills go out the day after payday, then they withdraw whatever's left in cash and budget accordingly.Anabobazina said:
I struggle with the veracity of such anecdotes. Do they pay their monthly bills by cash, at a post office? Their TV licence? Their mortgage? Their rent? How many people as a proportion of the UK population operate only in cash – and how exactly do they string a life together?Driver said:
Absolutely - I know a few people who like to use cash for budgeting because paying by card doesn't feel like spending money.ManchesterKurt said:
Because there will always be a proportion of the population that require cash as they are unable to deal with more modern ways of budgeting.Anabobazina said:
Why? Would you allow people to pay in postal orders or cheques or similarly obsolete payments?Selebian said:
If there's contactless (hell, even chip and pin) then I'm not too bothered about what else is available. Cash for those who prefer/need that should also be provided, I think.Pulpstar said:
Contactless is great. Phone apps for carparking just shouldn't be allowed. For one thing your debit card won't go out of battery for that 1% of time your phone is out of juice and you can't phone tap the contactless.Tres said:Council round here has moved to phone apps entirely for parking, even though they had machines available which could take contactless payments. Bonkers.
The frustrating thing is that any halfway decent parking app standard would be more convenient for most. Car reg(s) stored in app. Location services pinpoint the car park (or some NFC thing to swipe at worst). Choose your time and go, automatic payment. Extendable without returning to the car park. No queues. Many benefits. The current shit-show is not necessary.
My wife had a very severe stroke 5 years ago and has left her with tremendous mental issues, she cannot understand the difference between up or down, left or right, forwards or backwards. She cannot unlock doors, she cannot leave the house alone.
But she does have a level of financial independence as each month we take some money out of her bank and over the month she manages her spend as she can touch, feel and see her money.
My wife could not deal with a card (if nothing else her eye sight is so poor she cannot see the numbers on the keypads), take away cash and you take away about the only thing in her life that she has any level of independence over.
My wife may be a very extreme case, but there are probably far more people at that end of the spectrum than you would imagine.
Obviously, people who don't need to worry about having month left at the end of the money can merrily tap away.
You can call me a liar if you want.
So if no one is saying you have to be made to use cash...why are you so fervent on stopping those that want the option to continue having the option to use cash?
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2022/aug/18/uk-cashless-society-a-step-closer-as-more-than-23m-people-abandon-coins
"During 2021 there were 23.1 million consumers who used cash only once a month or not at all" is the quote... once or not at all. Rarely is not once0 -
That's simply not true: the homeless need cash to buy their Tennant's lager.Anabobazina said:
Indeed. And it's risky, carrying it around. I imagine 'petty' robberies (in the absence of a more appropriate term) are much more prevalent in those countries where cash is the norm.Leon said:
Plus you can lose cash, it's a hassle to change it, you put it in the washing machine by mistake, and so on and so forthAnabobazina said:
It really is. A total timer waster –– "oh I have to go to the bank machine, where is the bank machine? Dunno, oh it's x miles away"Leon said:
In Thailand it is still 80% cash at least. It is really quite annoying have to go back to paper wads (let alone meaningless coins). It made me realise that cash is definitely doomed. Cash is a total painAnabobazina said:
I haven't carried a wallet for nearly two years. Both my watch and phone make payments so what exactly is the point of carting around a load of pointless plastic and paper?Cookie said:
Really?Anabobazina said:Re: cash, someone said to me the other day, have you seen the 'new' 50pm coin?
I replied that I hadn't seen it, nor a 50p coin of any kind, old, middle-aged or new, for about a decade.
Up until 2020, I had a coin jar, which accumulated change through the year and was periodically taken to the bank - it used to get about £400 a year in change. Since the pandemic, it no longer builds up ,and I have to go out of my way from time to time to get change to keep it stocked. But I do still need coins, for reasons including, er:
- transactions with children (the tooth fairy doesn't bring plastic)
- tips in restaurants (I want my money to go to the specific waiter/waitress who provided the service)
- buskers
- parking (most car parks accept payment by app but that is a massive pain in the arse, particularly if I don't have my glasses with me)
- filling a pint glass with, then pissing in it and throwing it from on high at 15 year old girls who have a different favourite football team to me (joking - I'm not a Liverpool fan).
It's not a massive list. But cash isn't dead yet.
EDIT: All that said, upon meeting a colleague for the first time in 2 years recently, I was shocked to find he no longer even carries a wallet - just does everything on his phone. Does he not worry about running out of battery? Does he not worry about losing his phone? Does he not worry about having his phone but not his glasses? Apparently not. Not for me, Clive.
Absolutely ridiculous persisting with it nowadays.
Cash is doomed, the same way real gold and silver coins were doomed back in the day, and the value of notes and coins became notional
It's rare among my friends that anyone carries cash – as it's pointless in London.0 -
Interesting that the top three for all segments don't have solutions that could even be described let alone implemented.NickyBreakspear said:
This comes from the More in Common thinktank https://www.moreincommon.org.uk/Andy_JS said:"@PollingReportUK
NEW POLL - Westminster voting intention:
LAB: 44%
CON: 30%
LIB: 10%
GREEN: 6%
REFORM: 5%
SNP: 3%
OTHER: 1%"
https://twitter.com/PollingReportUK/status/1646479319839956994
There is an interesting graphic from the poll relating to the different segments of our society.0 -
I don't get his loony evangelism approach.....no one is telling him he has to use cash ever if he doesn't want to. Why does it bother him so much that some of us are going cashless....nah pass on that thanks for the offerrcs1000 said:
That's simply not true: the homeless need cash to buy their Tennant's lager.Anabobazina said:
Indeed. And it's risky, carrying it around. I imagine 'petty' robberies (in the absence of a more appropriate term) are much more prevalent in those countries where cash is the norm.Leon said:
Plus you can lose cash, it's a hassle to change it, you put it in the washing machine by mistake, and so on and so forthAnabobazina said:
It really is. A total timer waster –– "oh I have to go to the bank machine, where is the bank machine? Dunno, oh it's x miles away"Leon said:
In Thailand it is still 80% cash at least. It is really quite annoying have to go back to paper wads (let alone meaningless coins). It made me realise that cash is definitely doomed. Cash is a total painAnabobazina said:
I haven't carried a wallet for nearly two years. Both my watch and phone make payments so what exactly is the point of carting around a load of pointless plastic and paper?Cookie said:
Really?Anabobazina said:Re: cash, someone said to me the other day, have you seen the 'new' 50pm coin?
I replied that I hadn't seen it, nor a 50p coin of any kind, old, middle-aged or new, for about a decade.
Up until 2020, I had a coin jar, which accumulated change through the year and was periodically taken to the bank - it used to get about £400 a year in change. Since the pandemic, it no longer builds up ,and I have to go out of my way from time to time to get change to keep it stocked. But I do still need coins, for reasons including, er:
- transactions with children (the tooth fairy doesn't bring plastic)
- tips in restaurants (I want my money to go to the specific waiter/waitress who provided the service)
- buskers
- parking (most car parks accept payment by app but that is a massive pain in the arse, particularly if I don't have my glasses with me)
- filling a pint glass with, then pissing in it and throwing it from on high at 15 year old girls who have a different favourite football team to me (joking - I'm not a Liverpool fan).
It's not a massive list. But cash isn't dead yet.
EDIT: All that said, upon meeting a colleague for the first time in 2 years recently, I was shocked to find he no longer even carries a wallet - just does everything on his phone. Does he not worry about running out of battery? Does he not worry about losing his phone? Does he not worry about having his phone but not his glasses? Apparently not. Not for me, Clive.
Absolutely ridiculous persisting with it nowadays.
Cash is doomed, the same way real gold and silver coins were doomed back in the day, and the value of notes and coins became notional
It's rare among my friends that anyone carries cash – as it's pointless in London.0 -
Hello OKC , I was busy at work, seemingly been a fair upsurge in ALBA members. The SNP are in deep sh*t and only the tip of the iceberg in the open so far. They have a long way to fall.OldKingCole said:
Is Malc watching the racing? What about Alba?Leon said:
Well, it would be enormously entertaining, for a start. So there's that?Nigelb said:
How much would that matter, though ?Leon said:It gets still worse for the SNP
https://order-order.com/2023/04/13/snp-westminster-group-face-losing-1-million-after-auditors-quit/
Might they actually go bankrupt?
Presumably it would be possible to constitute a new pro-independence party. It might even do them a favour by clearing out those implicated, and distancing the new party from the mess.
Also, there would surely be a real risk of a split if they had to start a new party. It is already obvious that the Woke Nats should not be in the same party as Forbes and her supporters. A reboot would give them a chance to make the split formal
Actually, I believe that would be better for the long term prospects of indy0 -
Depends who actually owns it.Nigelb said:.
In a bankruptcy that will go to the creditors, surely ?ydoethur said:
Sell the motorhome?Nigelb said:
True.eek said:
The new party would lose all it's Westminster (and Scottish Parliament?) money however... Which would make funding the preparation of the next campaign a problem.Nigelb said:
How much would that matter, though ?Leon said:It gets still worse for the SNP
https://order-order.com/2023/04/13/snp-westminster-group-face-losing-1-million-after-auditors-quit/
Might they actually go bankrupt?
Presumably it would be possible to constitute a new pro-independence party. It might even do them a favour by clearing out those implicated, and distancing the new party from the mess.
Short Money is a bit over a million a year for them ?
Hardly insurmountable, though.0 -
a
Ignorance - you have left out using an ISO standard rubber mallet. Total cowboys use their hand......Carnyx said:
According to the PBplumbers it needs a 5 year apprenticeship to know, and refresher training from the Terminal Thumping Safety Council every 3 years or so.OldKingCole said:J
Where do you have to thump one of those machines to get it working?eek said:
Comment from my corner shop yesterday - he lost £500 or so of sales when the card machine went down for an hour on Sunday.Pagan2 said:
You would have been stuck last week then here as the local shop to me was cash only for 2 days as their machine wasn't working. Only other option was to get a bus to town or go without.....luckily I pretty much use cash for all my day to day purchases so I was ok......other people expecting to be able to pay cashlessly were so out of luck......next time I will take a deckchair round and some beer and taunt them mercilesslyAnabobazina said:
Everywhere is MOVING TOWARDS cashlessness and to claim otherwise is to deny the clear evidence in front of you. As much as it might not appeal to your prejudices, I leave London regularly – particularly for hiking and biking tours in high-country remote places.ydoethur said:
I use cash, because as has been patiently explained to you before, outside Extortion City there are still lots of places that don't take cards because it's much more expensive particularly for small transactions. I know that a study put forward by the main card clearing house said otherwise but it was patently not telling the truth (as in, had forged its figures).Anabobazina said:
Agree entirely. In fact @ManchesterKurt has given an excellent if saddening counterexample – others just seem to be based on: "I like cash, dunno why".Leon said:
I've gone months in London without using cash. I always do have some, but it can stay unspent in my pocket for entire seasonsAnabobazina said:
Indeed. And it's risky, carrying it around. I imagine 'petty' robberies (in the absence of a more appropriate term) are much more prevalent in those countries where cash is the norm.Leon said:
Plus you can lose cash, it's a hassle to change it, you put it in the washing machine by mistake, and so on and so forthAnabobazina said:
It really is. A total timer waster –– "oh I have to go to the bank machine, where is the bank machine? Dunno, oh it's x miles away"Leon said:
In Thailand it is still 80% cash at least. It is really quite annoying have to go back to paper wads (let alone meaningless coins). It made me realise that cash is definitely doomed. Cash is a total painAnabobazina said:
I haven't carried a wallet for nearly two years. Both my watch and phone make payments so what exactly is the point of carting around a load of pointless plastic and paper?Cookie said:
Really?Anabobazina said:Re: cash, someone said to me the other day, have you seen the 'new' 50pm coin?
I replied that I hadn't seen it, nor a 50p coin of any kind, old, middle-aged or new, for about a decade.
Up until 2020, I had a coin jar, which accumulated change through the year and was periodically taken to the bank - it used to get about £400 a year in change. Since the pandemic, it no longer builds up ,and I have to go out of my way from time to time to get change to keep it stocked. But I do still need coins, for reasons including, er:
- transactions with children (the tooth fairy doesn't bring plastic)
- tips in restaurants (I want my money to go to the specific waiter/waitress who provided the service)
- buskers
- parking (most car parks accept payment by app but that is a massive pain in the arse, particularly if I don't have my glasses with me)
- filling a pint glass with, then pissing in it and throwing it from on high at 15 year old girls who have a different favourite football team to me (joking - I'm not a Liverpool fan).
It's not a massive list. But cash isn't dead yet.
EDIT: All that said, upon meeting a colleague for the first time in 2 years recently, I was shocked to find he no longer even carries a wallet - just does everything on his phone. Does he not worry about running out of battery? Does he not worry about losing his phone? Does he not worry about having his phone but not his glasses? Apparently not. Not for me, Clive.
Absolutely ridiculous persisting with it nowadays.
Cash is doomed, the same way real gold and silver coins were doomed back in the day, and the value of notes and coins became notional
It's rare among my friends that anyone carries cash – as it's pointless in London.
It just seems mad to believe that in twenty years we will still be reaching in purses and counting out bits of paper and circles of metal. I do sympathise with sad stories like that of @ManchesterKurt below - that's awful - but I don't see that stopping inevitable progress
What might kill cash off eventually is the number of bank branches that are being closed, which will make it much more difficult to obtain and secure it. That's what's happening in say, North Wales. And that is not because of the merits or demerits of physical cash but because (1) branches being shut down, however well-used, reduces overheads dramatically and (b) banks can charge more in card transaction fees than in cash deposit fees.
London is not a typical example and should also never be used as such. It's much more crowded, much more expensive and much younger than the average town in the UK, including for things like food and transport (coins are still needed for many bus journeys round here). It's therefore less practical to use cash and the population tends to be more addicted to their phones in any case. That doesn't mean just because London is moving towards cashlessness everywhere else will as well.
I haven't used cash for anything, anywhere in the UK, and haven't needed to. The idea that rural areas are still cash-only holdouts is an utter fantasy.
His annoyance was that his wife didn't call him to ask how to fix it and just said cash only...1 -
If you were living in poverty and had a very limited budget you wouldAnabobazina said:
I struggle with the veracity of such anecdotes. Do they pay their monthly bills by cash, at a post office? Their TV licence? Their mortgage? Their rent? How many people as a proportion of the UK population operate only in cash – and how exactly do they string a life together?Driver said:
Absolutely - I know a few people who like to use cash for budgeting because paying by card doesn't feel like spending money.ManchesterKurt said:
Because there will always be a proportion of the population that require cash as they are unable to deal with more modern ways of budgeting.Anabobazina said:
Why? Would you allow people to pay in postal orders or cheques or similarly obsolete payments?Selebian said:
If there's contactless (hell, even chip and pin) then I'm not too bothered about what else is available. Cash for those who prefer/need that should also be provided, I think.Pulpstar said:
Contactless is great. Phone apps for carparking just shouldn't be allowed. For one thing your debit card won't go out of battery for that 1% of time your phone is out of juice and you can't phone tap the contactless.Tres said:Council round here has moved to phone apps entirely for parking, even though they had machines available which could take contactless payments. Bonkers.
The frustrating thing is that any halfway decent parking app standard would be more convenient for most. Car reg(s) stored in app. Location services pinpoint the car park (or some NFC thing to swipe at worst). Choose your time and go, automatic payment. Extendable without returning to the car park. No queues. Many benefits. The current shit-show is not necessary.
My wife had a very severe stroke 5 years ago and has left her with tremendous mental issues, she cannot understand the difference between up or down, left or right, forwards or backwards. She cannot unlock doors, she cannot leave the house alone.
But she does have a level of financial independence as each month we take some money out of her bank and over the month she manages her spend as she can touch, feel and see her money.
My wife could not deal with a card (if nothing else her eye sight is so poor she cannot see the numbers on the keypads), take away cash and you take away about the only thing in her life that she has any level of independence over.
My wife may be a very extreme case, but there are probably far more people at that end of the spectrum than you would imagine.
Obviously, people who don't need to worry about having month left at the end of the money can merrily tap away.
Well he would have to pay for card machine , line rental , etc. Bank transfer is free.Driver said:
My barber doesn't take cards but does take bank transfers, which I've never quite got my head around.Selebian said:
Surprising how things have changed in a decade. I was in Stockholm for work in 2010, arrived on delayed flight (snow at UK airport) very late and grabbed a cab from the centre to where I was staying with colleague - original plan was colleague to pick me up, but it was late, his wife was out on shift and young children so he culdn't leave as he would have done earlier. Asked for them to stop at a cash machine on the way so I could pay, only to find they had a card machine on-board. Seemed futuristic at the time; I'd never encountered that in UK.kjh said:
In the last few years I have only used cash for a haircut (yep I don't know why they only take cash). I did a holiday in Iceland a few years ago and never used cash once; I didn't have any. Adnams will not take cash in their pubs.Leon said:
I've just spent about two weeks going around Cornwall - from little villages to bigger towns. I needed cash just once - in a cafe in a remote cove - but that was only because their wifi was down so the machine would not workAnabobazina said:
Everywhere is MOVING TOWARDS cashlessness and to claim otherwise is to deny the clear evidence in front of you. As much as it might not appeal to your prejudices, I leave London regularly – particularly for hiking and biking tours in high-country remote places.ydoethur said:
I use cash, because as has been patiently explained to you before, outside Extortion City there are still lots of places that don't take cards because it's much more expensive particularly for small transactions. I know that a study put forward by the main card clearing house said otherwise but it was patently not telling the truth (as in, had forged its figures).Anabobazina said:
Agree entirely. In fact @ManchesterKurt has given an excellent if saddening counterexample – others just seem to be based on: "I like cash, dunno why".Leon said:
I've gone months in London without using cash. I always do have some, but it can stay unspent in my pocket for entire seasonsAnabobazina said:
Indeed. And it's risky, carrying it around. I imagine 'petty' robberies (in the absence of a more appropriate term) are much more prevalent in those countries where cash is the norm.Leon said:
Plus you can lose cash, it's a hassle to change it, you put it in the washing machine by mistake, and so on and so forthAnabobazina said:
It really is. A total timer waster –– "oh I have to go to the bank machine, where is the bank machine? Dunno, oh it's x miles away"Leon said:
In Thailand it is still 80% cash at least. It is really quite annoying have to go back to paper wads (let alone meaningless coins). It made me realise that cash is definitely doomed. Cash is a total painAnabobazina said:
I haven't carried a wallet for nearly two years. Both my watch and phone make payments so what exactly is the point of carting around a load of pointless plastic and paper?Cookie said:
Really?Anabobazina said:Re: cash, someone said to me the other day, have you seen the 'new' 50pm coin?
I replied that I hadn't seen it, nor a 50p coin of any kind, old, middle-aged or new, for about a decade.
Up until 2020, I had a coin jar, which accumulated change through the year and was periodically taken to the bank - it used to get about £400 a year in change. Since the pandemic, it no longer builds up ,and I have to go out of my way from time to time to get change to keep it stocked. But I do still need coins, for reasons including, er:
- transactions with children (the tooth fairy doesn't bring plastic)
- tips in restaurants (I want my money to go to the specific waiter/waitress who provided the service)
- buskers
- parking (most car parks accept payment by app but that is a massive pain in the arse, particularly if I don't have my glasses with me)
- filling a pint glass with, then pissing in it and throwing it from on high at 15 year old girls who have a different favourite football team to me (joking - I'm not a Liverpool fan).
It's not a massive list. But cash isn't dead yet.
EDIT: All that said, upon meeting a colleague for the first time in 2 years recently, I was shocked to find he no longer even carries a wallet - just does everything on his phone. Does he not worry about running out of battery? Does he not worry about losing his phone? Does he not worry about having his phone but not his glasses? Apparently not. Not for me, Clive.
Absolutely ridiculous persisting with it nowadays.
Cash is doomed, the same way real gold and silver coins were doomed back in the day, and the value of notes and coins became notional
It's rare among my friends that anyone carries cash – as it's pointless in London.
It just seems mad to believe that in twenty years we will still be reaching in purses and counting out bits of paper and circles of metal. I do sympathise with sad stories like that of @ManchesterKurt below - that's awful - but I don't see that stopping inevitable progress
What might kill cash off eventually is the number of bank branches that are being closed, which will make it much more difficult to obtain and secure it. That's what's happening in say, North Wales. And that is not because of the merits or demerits of physical cash but because (1) branches being shut down, however well-used, reduces overheads dramatically and (b) banks can charge more in card transaction fees than in cash deposit fees.
London is not a typical example and should also never be used as such. It's much more crowded, much more expensive and much younger than the average town in the UK, including for things like food and transport (coins are still needed for many bus journeys round here). It's therefore less practical to use cash and the population tends to be more addicted to their phones in any case. That doesn't mean just because London is moving towards cashlessness everywhere else will as well.
I haven't used cash for anything, anywhere in the UK, and haven't needed to. The idea that rural areas are still cash-only holdouts is an utter fantasy.
It was noticeable and I remember it precisely because it seemed so odd - to everyone. Actual Cash!
This is going to be a problem going forward for the very few who have no alternative to cash.
Now it's a shock to be asked for cash in most places. Haircuts are also the one place I usually need cash - are they all dodging tax?0 -
I worry that if there is a massive tech outage, we wouldn't be able to access our cash, paper, coin or otherwiseCookie said:
Yes, me too.kinabalu said:The pandemic killed my cash habit. I used to use it a lot, far more than most, just liked doing it, nice crisp notes, nice shiny coins, but come Covid and the consequent urge to not touch things others had touched I went card only, and now the thought of carrying cash around seems weird. I took £20 out of a machine in Feb 2020 and I still have it sitting there in a drawer. I think I do anyway ... let me just go and check ... yep it's still there. £20.
It wasn't the handling money aspect. It was the reset. All my life I'd been handling money most days. Then commercial activity was shut down. Only, in practice, for a few weeks - but when it started back up, those retailers in the vanguard were urging contactless, and the contactless limit had been increased. Before that, cash was a habit. I didn't love cash, but it was perfectly adequate for my uses and didn't require glasses. Now, contactless is the default.
Contactless actually causes me physical discomfort - I have to peer intently at the tiny number on the back of my debit cards to make sure I'm using the right one for the transaction (is this for me, or for us? My account or joint account?) - and with eyesight as rubbish as mine this hurts. But I still do it, because it's the habit now.
I'm sure if there's some massive tech outage which temporarily means cash transactions for a few weeks I'd get back into the habit of using cash, and that would become the default again.
3 -
I'm sticking with my position that Labour will not achieve a majority. I realise this may cause Heathener's head to explode.Andy_JS said:This isn't great for Labour. Latest UKPollingReport forecast based on the opinion polls.
Lab 344
Con 210
SNP 47
LD 26
https://pollingreport.uk/seats
I am not yet convinced they will even be the largest party.3 -
Yes and middle of pandemic when people were barricaded in their houses as well. You could use 2021 and say vacations are going out of fashion based on that year.Pagan2 said:
It wasnt rarely that is Anabob misrepresentingDriver said:
I would be "rarely". That doesn't mean I think abolishing cash is acceptable.Anabobazina said:
The "never or rarely" number was 23 million people last year, with only 15% of all transactions in cash. That's expected to fall to 6% by 2032. At what stage do we have a national debate about abolishing it?Pagan2 said:
The number who never use cash isn't even 50% of people. The cashless are still the minority cash users are not a tiny proportion.Anabobazina said:
It's going to become a big policy question, probably fairly soon. Cash is dying. A large and growing proportion of the population never or rarely use it. It's like analogue telly – getting the holdouts to switch to digital was vexatious for a while, but it happened. Retaining cash when a tiny proportion of the population use it will be akin to retaining analogue telly.Pagan2 said:
I am curious why you are strident on this issue, most of those saying they should be able to continue to pay cash aren't telling you that you must use cash. They are just saying they want to retain the right to use cash instead of card/phone whatever.Anabobazina said:
I'm not calling you a liar, simply challenging the idea that they wouldn't learn to budget were cash unavailable. People adapt. Seatbelt paradox.Driver said:
Bills go out the day after payday, then they withdraw whatever's left in cash and budget accordingly.Anabobazina said:
I struggle with the veracity of such anecdotes. Do they pay their monthly bills by cash, at a post office? Their TV licence? Their mortgage? Their rent? How many people as a proportion of the UK population operate only in cash – and how exactly do they string a life together?Driver said:
Absolutely - I know a few people who like to use cash for budgeting because paying by card doesn't feel like spending money.ManchesterKurt said:
Because there will always be a proportion of the population that require cash as they are unable to deal with more modern ways of budgeting.Anabobazina said:
Why? Would you allow people to pay in postal orders or cheques or similarly obsolete payments?Selebian said:
If there's contactless (hell, even chip and pin) then I'm not too bothered about what else is available. Cash for those who prefer/need that should also be provided, I think.Pulpstar said:
Contactless is great. Phone apps for carparking just shouldn't be allowed. For one thing your debit card won't go out of battery for that 1% of time your phone is out of juice and you can't phone tap the contactless.Tres said:Council round here has moved to phone apps entirely for parking, even though they had machines available which could take contactless payments. Bonkers.
The frustrating thing is that any halfway decent parking app standard would be more convenient for most. Car reg(s) stored in app. Location services pinpoint the car park (or some NFC thing to swipe at worst). Choose your time and go, automatic payment. Extendable without returning to the car park. No queues. Many benefits. The current shit-show is not necessary.
My wife had a very severe stroke 5 years ago and has left her with tremendous mental issues, she cannot understand the difference between up or down, left or right, forwards or backwards. She cannot unlock doors, she cannot leave the house alone.
But she does have a level of financial independence as each month we take some money out of her bank and over the month she manages her spend as she can touch, feel and see her money.
My wife could not deal with a card (if nothing else her eye sight is so poor she cannot see the numbers on the keypads), take away cash and you take away about the only thing in her life that she has any level of independence over.
My wife may be a very extreme case, but there are probably far more people at that end of the spectrum than you would imagine.
Obviously, people who don't need to worry about having month left at the end of the money can merrily tap away.
You can call me a liar if you want.
So if no one is saying you have to be made to use cash...why are you so fervent on stopping those that want the option to continue having the option to use cash?
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2022/aug/18/uk-cashless-society-a-step-closer-as-more-than-23m-people-abandon-coins
"During 2021 there were 23.1 million consumers who used cash only once a month or not at all" is the quote... once or not at all. Rarely is not once0 -
Simple you should have one accountCookie said:
Yes, me too.kinabalu said:The pandemic killed my cash habit. I used to use it a lot, far more than most, just liked doing it, nice crisp notes, nice shiny coins, but come Covid and the consequent urge to not touch things others had touched I went card only, and now the thought of carrying cash around seems weird. I took £20 out of a machine in Feb 2020 and I still have it sitting there in a drawer. I think I do anyway ... let me just go and check ... yep it's still there. £20.
It wasn't the handling money aspect. It was the reset. All my life I'd been handling money most days. Then commercial activity was shut down. Only, in practice, for a few weeks - but when it started back up, those retailers in the vanguard were urging contactless, and the contactless limit had been increased. Before that, cash was a habit. I didn't love cash, but it was perfectly adequate for my uses and didn't require glasses. Now, contactless is the default.
Contactless actually causes me physical discomfort - I have to peer intently at the tiny number on the back of my debit cards to make sure I'm using the right one for the transaction (is this for me, or for us? My account or joint account?) - and with eyesight as rubbish as mine this hurts. But I still do it, because it's the habit now.
I'm sure if there's some massive tech outage which temporarily means cash transactions for a few weeks I'd get back into the habit of using cash, and that would become the default again.0 -
Ram raids are a bit 1980s, aren't they? Bollards were the usual solution.Jim_Miller said:On cash and crooks: Washington state legalized marijauna -- but it hasn't been legalized nationally. So the local marijuana shops can't take debit and credit cards. So they have a lot of cash, as well as the marijuana.
Which has made them targets for crooks, even more than jewelers.
In a distressingly common kind of attack, the crooks steal a car, use it to smash into a shop, and then drive away with the loot (which sometimes includes an ATM machine), in another vehicle.0 -
Delivered about 500 leaflets today (weather much more conducive than yesterday, when thunder, lightning and 50 mph horizontal hail made for challenging conditions....)
Meerkat update: the only ones seen were 3 very small and frankly very poorly executed ones, sat on a branch. A branch! What did the designer think they were, blue tits?2 -
We'd rapidly have to move to ropes of seashells or the like.Daveyboy1961 said:
I worry that if there is a massive tech outage, we wouldn't be able to access our cash, paper, coin or otherwiseCookie said:
Yes, me too.kinabalu said:The pandemic killed my cash habit. I used to use it a lot, far more than most, just liked doing it, nice crisp notes, nice shiny coins, but come Covid and the consequent urge to not touch things others had touched I went card only, and now the thought of carrying cash around seems weird. I took £20 out of a machine in Feb 2020 and I still have it sitting there in a drawer. I think I do anyway ... let me just go and check ... yep it's still there. £20.
It wasn't the handling money aspect. It was the reset. All my life I'd been handling money most days. Then commercial activity was shut down. Only, in practice, for a few weeks - but when it started back up, those retailers in the vanguard were urging contactless, and the contactless limit had been increased. Before that, cash was a habit. I didn't love cash, but it was perfectly adequate for my uses and didn't require glasses. Now, contactless is the default.
Contactless actually causes me physical discomfort - I have to peer intently at the tiny number on the back of my debit cards to make sure I'm using the right one for the transaction (is this for me, or for us? My account or joint account?) - and with eyesight as rubbish as mine this hurts. But I still do it, because it's the habit now.
I'm sure if there's some massive tech outage which temporarily means cash transactions for a few weeks I'd get back into the habit of using cash, and that would become the default again.
Cleaners and gardeners and casual labourers still prefer cash. Mostly it is all they will take.
But I can't recall the last time a retail outlet demanded it.0 -
Cheltenham was interesting this year.kinabalu said:The pandemic killed my cash habit. I used to use it a lot, far more than most, just liked doing it, nice crisp notes, nice shiny coins, but come Covid and the consequent urge to not touch things others had touched I went card only, and now the thought of carrying cash around seems weird. I took £20 out of a machine in Feb 2020 and I still have it sitting there in a drawer. I think I do anyway ... let me just go and check ... yep it's still there. £20.
The bookies are cash only, but the entire rest of the course is cashless.0 -
But direct deposit transaction fees alone fail to account for the total costs of dealing with cash.TheScreamingEagles said:
Card transaction fees are more than direct deposit transaction fees.Driver said:
My barber doesn't take cards but does take bank transfers, which I've never quite got my head around.Selebian said:
Surprising how things have changed in a decade. I was in Stockholm for work in 2010, arrived on delayed flight (snow at UK airport) very late and grabbed a cab from the centre to where I was staying with colleague - original plan was colleague to pick me up, but it was late, his wife was out on shift and young children so he culdn't leave as he would have done earlier. Asked for them to stop at a cash machine on the way so I could pay, only to find they had a card machine on-board. Seemed futuristic at the time; I'd never encountered that in UK.kjh said:
In the last few years I have only used cash for a haircut (yep I don't know why they only take cash). I did a holiday in Iceland a few years ago and never used cash once; I didn't have any. Adnams will not take cash in their pubs.Leon said:
I've just spent about two weeks going around Cornwall - from little villages to bigger towns. I needed cash just once - in a cafe in a remote cove - but that was only because their wifi was down so the machine would not workAnabobazina said:
Everywhere is MOVING TOWARDS cashlessness and to claim otherwise is to deny the clear evidence in front of you. As much as it might not appeal to your prejudices, I leave London regularly – particularly for hiking and biking tours in high-country remote places.ydoethur said:
I use cash, because as has been patiently explained to you before, outside Extortion City there are still lots of places that don't take cards because it's much more expensive particularly for small transactions. I know that a study put forward by the main card clearing house said otherwise but it was patently not telling the truth (as in, had forged its figures).Anabobazina said:
Agree entirely. In fact @ManchesterKurt has given an excellent if saddening counterexample – others just seem to be based on: "I like cash, dunno why".Leon said:
I've gone months in London without using cash. I always do have some, but it can stay unspent in my pocket for entire seasonsAnabobazina said:
Indeed. And it's risky, carrying it around. I imagine 'petty' robberies (in the absence of a more appropriate term) are much more prevalent in those countries where cash is the norm.Leon said:
Plus you can lose cash, it's a hassle to change it, you put it in the washing machine by mistake, and so on and so forthAnabobazina said:
It really is. A total timer waster –– "oh I have to go to the bank machine, where is the bank machine? Dunno, oh it's x miles away"Leon said:
In Thailand it is still 80% cash at least. It is really quite annoying have to go back to paper wads (let alone meaningless coins). It made me realise that cash is definitely doomed. Cash is a total painAnabobazina said:
I haven't carried a wallet for nearly two years. Both my watch and phone make payments so what exactly is the point of carting around a load of pointless plastic and paper?Cookie said:
Really?Anabobazina said:Re: cash, someone said to me the other day, have you seen the 'new' 50pm coin?
I replied that I hadn't seen it, nor a 50p coin of any kind, old, middle-aged or new, for about a decade.
Up until 2020, I had a coin jar, which accumulated change through the year and was periodically taken to the bank - it used to get about £400 a year in change. Since the pandemic, it no longer builds up ,and I have to go out of my way from time to time to get change to keep it stocked. But I do still need coins, for reasons including, er:
- transactions with children (the tooth fairy doesn't bring plastic)
- tips in restaurants (I want my money to go to the specific waiter/waitress who provided the service)
- buskers
- parking (most car parks accept payment by app but that is a massive pain in the arse, particularly if I don't have my glasses with me)
- filling a pint glass with, then pissing in it and throwing it from on high at 15 year old girls who have a different favourite football team to me (joking - I'm not a Liverpool fan).
It's not a massive list. But cash isn't dead yet.
EDIT: All that said, upon meeting a colleague for the first time in 2 years recently, I was shocked to find he no longer even carries a wallet - just does everything on his phone. Does he not worry about running out of battery? Does he not worry about losing his phone? Does he not worry about having his phone but not his glasses? Apparently not. Not for me, Clive.
Absolutely ridiculous persisting with it nowadays.
Cash is doomed, the same way real gold and silver coins were doomed back in the day, and the value of notes and coins became notional
It's rare among my friends that anyone carries cash – as it's pointless in London.
It just seems mad to believe that in twenty years we will still be reaching in purses and counting out bits of paper and circles of metal. I do sympathise with sad stories like that of @ManchesterKurt below - that's awful - but I don't see that stopping inevitable progress
What might kill cash off eventually is the number of bank branches that are being closed, which will make it much more difficult to obtain and secure it. That's what's happening in say, North Wales. And that is not because of the merits or demerits of physical cash but because (1) branches being shut down, however well-used, reduces overheads dramatically and (b) banks can charge more in card transaction fees than in cash deposit fees.
London is not a typical example and should also never be used as such. It's much more crowded, much more expensive and much younger than the average town in the UK, including for things like food and transport (coins are still needed for many bus journeys round here). It's therefore less practical to use cash and the population tends to be more addicted to their phones in any case. That doesn't mean just because London is moving towards cashlessness everywhere else will as well.
I haven't used cash for anything, anywhere in the UK, and haven't needed to. The idea that rural areas are still cash-only holdouts is an utter fantasy.
It was noticeable and I remember it precisely because it seemed so odd - to everyone. Actual Cash!
This is going to be a problem going forward for the very few who have no alternative to cash.
Now it's a shock to be asked for cash in most places. Haircuts are also the one place I usually need cash - are they all dodging tax?0 -
So you can't spend your winnings in the bar? That seems like a missed opportunity.Scott_xP said:
Cheltenham was interesting this year.kinabalu said:The pandemic killed my cash habit. I used to use it a lot, far more than most, just liked doing it, nice crisp notes, nice shiny coins, but come Covid and the consequent urge to not touch things others had touched I went card only, and now the thought of carrying cash around seems weird. I took £20 out of a machine in Feb 2020 and I still have it sitting there in a drawer. I think I do anyway ... let me just go and check ... yep it's still there. £20.
The bookies are cash only, but the entire rest of the course is cashless.0 -
What is also not being said here is that a lot of cash transactions are not actually even recorded so they are unreported making cashless seem a bigger proportion. Examples of unrecorded cash transactions and that some cashless transactions have 1 or more cash transactions behind themmalcolmg said:
If you were living in poverty and had a very limited budget you wouldAnabobazina said:
I struggle with the veracity of such anecdotes. Do they pay their monthly bills by cash, at a post office? Their TV licence? Their mortgage? Their rent? How many people as a proportion of the UK population operate only in cash – and how exactly do they string a life together?Driver said:
Absolutely - I know a few people who like to use cash for budgeting because paying by card doesn't feel like spending money.ManchesterKurt said:
Because there will always be a proportion of the population that require cash as they are unable to deal with more modern ways of budgeting.Anabobazina said:
Why? Would you allow people to pay in postal orders or cheques or similarly obsolete payments?Selebian said:
If there's contactless (hell, even chip and pin) then I'm not too bothered about what else is available. Cash for those who prefer/need that should also be provided, I think.Pulpstar said:
Contactless is great. Phone apps for carparking just shouldn't be allowed. For one thing your debit card won't go out of battery for that 1% of time your phone is out of juice and you can't phone tap the contactless.Tres said:Council round here has moved to phone apps entirely for parking, even though they had machines available which could take contactless payments. Bonkers.
The frustrating thing is that any halfway decent parking app standard would be more convenient for most. Car reg(s) stored in app. Location services pinpoint the car park (or some NFC thing to swipe at worst). Choose your time and go, automatic payment. Extendable without returning to the car park. No queues. Many benefits. The current shit-show is not necessary.
My wife had a very severe stroke 5 years ago and has left her with tremendous mental issues, she cannot understand the difference between up or down, left or right, forwards or backwards. She cannot unlock doors, she cannot leave the house alone.
But she does have a level of financial independence as each month we take some money out of her bank and over the month she manages her spend as she can touch, feel and see her money.
My wife could not deal with a card (if nothing else her eye sight is so poor she cannot see the numbers on the keypads), take away cash and you take away about the only thing in her life that she has any level of independence over.
My wife may be a very extreme case, but there are probably far more people at that end of the spectrum than you would imagine.
Obviously, people who don't need to worry about having month left at the end of the money can merrily tap away.
Well he would have to pay for card machine , line rental , etc. Bank transfer is free.Driver said:
My barber doesn't take cards but does take bank transfers, which I've never quite got my head around.Selebian said:
Surprising how things have changed in a decade. I was in Stockholm for work in 2010, arrived on delayed flight (snow at UK airport) very late and grabbed a cab from the centre to where I was staying with colleague - original plan was colleague to pick me up, but it was late, his wife was out on shift and young children so he culdn't leave as he would have done earlier. Asked for them to stop at a cash machine on the way so I could pay, only to find they had a card machine on-board. Seemed futuristic at the time; I'd never encountered that in UK.kjh said:
In the last few years I have only used cash for a haircut (yep I don't know why they only take cash). I did a holiday in Iceland a few years ago and never used cash once; I didn't have any. Adnams will not take cash in their pubs.Leon said:
I've just spent about two weeks going around Cornwall - from little villages to bigger towns. I needed cash just once - in a cafe in a remote cove - but that was only because their wifi was down so the machine would not workAnabobazina said:
Everywhere is MOVING TOWARDS cashlessness and to claim otherwise is to deny the clear evidence in front of you. As much as it might not appeal to your prejudices, I leave London regularly – particularly for hiking and biking tours in high-country remote places.ydoethur said:
I use cash, because as has been patiently explained to you before, outside Extortion City there are still lots of places that don't take cards because it's much more expensive particularly for small transactions. I know that a study put forward by the main card clearing house said otherwise but it was patently not telling the truth (as in, had forged its figures).Anabobazina said:
Agree entirely. In fact @ManchesterKurt has given an excellent if saddening counterexample – others just seem to be based on: "I like cash, dunno why".Leon said:
I've gone months in London without using cash. I always do have some, but it can stay unspent in my pocket for entire seasonsAnabobazina said:
Indeed. And it's risky, carrying it around. I imagine 'petty' robberies (in the absence of a more appropriate term) are much more prevalent in those countries where cash is the norm.Leon said:
Plus you can lose cash, it's a hassle to change it, you put it in the washing machine by mistake, and so on and so forthAnabobazina said:
It really is. A total timer waster –– "oh I have to go to the bank machine, where is the bank machine? Dunno, oh it's x miles away"Leon said:
In Thailand it is still 80% cash at least. It is really quite annoying have to go back to paper wads (let alone meaningless coins). It made me realise that cash is definitely doomed. Cash is a total painAnabobazina said:
I haven't carried a wallet for nearly two years. Both my watch and phone make payments so what exactly is the point of carting around a load of pointless plastic and paper?Cookie said:
Really?Anabobazina said:Re: cash, someone said to me the other day, have you seen the 'new' 50pm coin?
I replied that I hadn't seen it, nor a 50p coin of any kind, old, middle-aged or new, for about a decade.
Up until 2020, I had a coin jar, which accumulated change through the year and was periodically taken to the bank - it used to get about £400 a year in change. Since the pandemic, it no longer builds up ,and I have to go out of my way from time to time to get change to keep it stocked. But I do still need coins, for reasons including, er:
- transactions with children (the tooth fairy doesn't bring plastic)
- tips in restaurants (I want my money to go to the specific waiter/waitress who provided the service)
- buskers
- parking (most car parks accept payment by app but that is a massive pain in the arse, particularly if I don't have my glasses with me)
- filling a pint glass with, then pissing in it and throwing it from on high at 15 year old girls who have a different favourite football team to me (joking - I'm not a Liverpool fan).
It's not a massive list. But cash isn't dead yet.
EDIT: All that said, upon meeting a colleague for the first time in 2 years recently, I was shocked to find he no longer even carries a wallet - just does everything on his phone. Does he not worry about running out of battery? Does he not worry about losing his phone? Does he not worry about having his phone but not his glasses? Apparently not. Not for me, Clive.
Absolutely ridiculous persisting with it nowadays.
Cash is doomed, the same way real gold and silver coins were doomed back in the day, and the value of notes and coins became notional
It's rare among my friends that anyone carries cash – as it's pointless in London.
It just seems mad to believe that in twenty years we will still be reaching in purses and counting out bits of paper and circles of metal. I do sympathise with sad stories like that of @ManchesterKurt below - that's awful - but I don't see that stopping inevitable progress
What might kill cash off eventually is the number of bank branches that are being closed, which will make it much more difficult to obtain and secure it. That's what's happening in say, North Wales. And that is not because of the merits or demerits of physical cash but because (1) branches being shut down, however well-used, reduces overheads dramatically and (b) banks can charge more in card transaction fees than in cash deposit fees.
London is not a typical example and should also never be used as such. It's much more crowded, much more expensive and much younger than the average town in the UK, including for things like food and transport (coins are still needed for many bus journeys round here). It's therefore less practical to use cash and the population tends to be more addicted to their phones in any case. That doesn't mean just because London is moving towards cashlessness everywhere else will as well.
I haven't used cash for anything, anywhere in the UK, and haven't needed to. The idea that rural areas are still cash-only holdouts is an utter fantasy.
It was noticeable and I remember it precisely because it seemed so odd - to everyone. Actual Cash!
This is going to be a problem going forward for the very few who have no alternative to cash.
Now it's a shock to be asked for cash in most places. Haircuts are also the one place I usually need cash - are they all dodging tax?
Lending a friend a tenner.
Clubbing together to pay for a meal 5 people pay 20quid cash the 6th puts the meal on his card for 80 quid (often used by our games night crew when we have a get together and order chinese, shows as 1 card transaction but is actually 1 card and 5 cash)
Buying something out of the classified ads, a car, a sofa
Buying illicit services such as drugs, prostitution, hitmen, peers of the realm etc
Paying cash in hand, for example if I got my lawn cut and chucked the guy a tenner cash
Cash only businesses that aren't paying tax
Giving cash to a charity via donation box
Giving cash to a beggar or busker
Giving a tip in cash to a waiter
Yes I suspect there are a lot of cash transactions missing from the data5 -
I'm liking the idea of a hitman peer of the realm.Pagan2 said:
What is also not being said here is that a lot of cash transactions are not actually even recorded so they are unreported making cashless seem a bigger proportion. Examples of unrecorded cash transactions and that some cashless transactions have 1 or more cash transactions behind themmalcolmg said:
If you were living in poverty and had a very limited budget you wouldAnabobazina said:
I struggle with the veracity of such anecdotes. Do they pay their monthly bills by cash, at a post office? Their TV licence? Their mortgage? Their rent? How many people as a proportion of the UK population operate only in cash – and how exactly do they string a life together?Driver said:
Absolutely - I know a few people who like to use cash for budgeting because paying by card doesn't feel like spending money.ManchesterKurt said:
Because there will always be a proportion of the population that require cash as they are unable to deal with more modern ways of budgeting.Anabobazina said:
Why? Would you allow people to pay in postal orders or cheques or similarly obsolete payments?Selebian said:
If there's contactless (hell, even chip and pin) then I'm not too bothered about what else is available. Cash for those who prefer/need that should also be provided, I think.Pulpstar said:
Contactless is great. Phone apps for carparking just shouldn't be allowed. For one thing your debit card won't go out of battery for that 1% of time your phone is out of juice and you can't phone tap the contactless.Tres said:Council round here has moved to phone apps entirely for parking, even though they had machines available which could take contactless payments. Bonkers.
The frustrating thing is that any halfway decent parking app standard would be more convenient for most. Car reg(s) stored in app. Location services pinpoint the car park (or some NFC thing to swipe at worst). Choose your time and go, automatic payment. Extendable without returning to the car park. No queues. Many benefits. The current shit-show is not necessary.
My wife had a very severe stroke 5 years ago and has left her with tremendous mental issues, she cannot understand the difference between up or down, left or right, forwards or backwards. She cannot unlock doors, she cannot leave the house alone.
But she does have a level of financial independence as each month we take some money out of her bank and over the month she manages her spend as she can touch, feel and see her money.
My wife could not deal with a card (if nothing else her eye sight is so poor she cannot see the numbers on the keypads), take away cash and you take away about the only thing in her life that she has any level of independence over.
My wife may be a very extreme case, but there are probably far more people at that end of the spectrum than you would imagine.
Obviously, people who don't need to worry about having month left at the end of the money can merrily tap away.
Well he would have to pay for card machine , line rental , etc. Bank transfer is free.Driver said:
My barber doesn't take cards but does take bank transfers, which I've never quite got my head around.Selebian said:
Surprising how things have changed in a decade. I was in Stockholm for work in 2010, arrived on delayed flight (snow at UK airport) very late and grabbed a cab from the centre to where I was staying with colleague - original plan was colleague to pick me up, but it was late, his wife was out on shift and young children so he culdn't leave as he would have done earlier. Asked for them to stop at a cash machine on the way so I could pay, only to find they had a card machine on-board. Seemed futuristic at the time; I'd never encountered that in UK.kjh said:
In the last few years I have only used cash for a haircut (yep I don't know why they only take cash). I did a holiday in Iceland a few years ago and never used cash once; I didn't have any. Adnams will not take cash in their pubs.Leon said:
I've just spent about two weeks going around Cornwall - from little villages to bigger towns. I needed cash just once - in a cafe in a remote cove - but that was only because their wifi was down so the machine would not workAnabobazina said:
Everywhere is MOVING TOWARDS cashlessness and to claim otherwise is to deny the clear evidence in front of you. As much as it might not appeal to your prejudices, I leave London regularly – particularly for hiking and biking tours in high-country remote places.ydoethur said:
I use cash, because as has been patiently explained to you before, outside Extortion City there are still lots of places that don't take cards because it's much more expensive particularly for small transactions. I know that a study put forward by the main card clearing house said otherwise but it was patently not telling the truth (as in, had forged its figures).Anabobazina said:
Agree entirely. In fact @ManchesterKurt has given an excellent if saddening counterexample – others just seem to be based on: "I like cash, dunno why".Leon said:
I've gone months in London without using cash. I always do have some, but it can stay unspent in my pocket for entire seasonsAnabobazina said:
Indeed. And it's risky, carrying it around. I imagine 'petty' robberies (in the absence of a more appropriate term) are much more prevalent in those countries where cash is the norm.Leon said:
Plus you can lose cash, it's a hassle to change it, you put it in the washing machine by mistake, and so on and so forthAnabobazina said:
It really is. A total timer waster –– "oh I have to go to the bank machine, where is the bank machine? Dunno, oh it's x miles away"Leon said:
In Thailand it is still 80% cash at least. It is really quite annoying have to go back to paper wads (let alone meaningless coins). It made me realise that cash is definitely doomed. Cash is a total painAnabobazina said:
I haven't carried a wallet for nearly two years. Both my watch and phone make payments so what exactly is the point of carting around a load of pointless plastic and paper?Cookie said:
Really?Anabobazina said:Re: cash, someone said to me the other day, have you seen the 'new' 50pm coin?
I replied that I hadn't seen it, nor a 50p coin of any kind, old, middle-aged or new, for about a decade.
Up until 2020, I had a coin jar, which accumulated change through the year and was periodically taken to the bank - it used to get about £400 a year in change. Since the pandemic, it no longer builds up ,and I have to go out of my way from time to time to get change to keep it stocked. But I do still need coins, for reasons including, er:
- transactions with children (the tooth fairy doesn't bring plastic)
- tips in restaurants (I want my money to go to the specific waiter/waitress who provided the service)
- buskers
- parking (most car parks accept payment by app but that is a massive pain in the arse, particularly if I don't have my glasses with me)
- filling a pint glass with, then pissing in it and throwing it from on high at 15 year old girls who have a different favourite football team to me (joking - I'm not a Liverpool fan).
It's not a massive list. But cash isn't dead yet.
EDIT: All that said, upon meeting a colleague for the first time in 2 years recently, I was shocked to find he no longer even carries a wallet - just does everything on his phone. Does he not worry about running out of battery? Does he not worry about losing his phone? Does he not worry about having his phone but not his glasses? Apparently not. Not for me, Clive.
Absolutely ridiculous persisting with it nowadays.
Cash is doomed, the same way real gold and silver coins were doomed back in the day, and the value of notes and coins became notional
It's rare among my friends that anyone carries cash – as it's pointless in London.
It just seems mad to believe that in twenty years we will still be reaching in purses and counting out bits of paper and circles of metal. I do sympathise with sad stories like that of @ManchesterKurt below - that's awful - but I don't see that stopping inevitable progress
What might kill cash off eventually is the number of bank branches that are being closed, which will make it much more difficult to obtain and secure it. That's what's happening in say, North Wales. And that is not because of the merits or demerits of physical cash but because (1) branches being shut down, however well-used, reduces overheads dramatically and (b) banks can charge more in card transaction fees than in cash deposit fees.
London is not a typical example and should also never be used as such. It's much more crowded, much more expensive and much younger than the average town in the UK, including for things like food and transport (coins are still needed for many bus journeys round here). It's therefore less practical to use cash and the population tends to be more addicted to their phones in any case. That doesn't mean just because London is moving towards cashlessness everywhere else will as well.
I haven't used cash for anything, anywhere in the UK, and haven't needed to. The idea that rural areas are still cash-only holdouts is an utter fantasy.
It was noticeable and I remember it precisely because it seemed so odd - to everyone. Actual Cash!
This is going to be a problem going forward for the very few who have no alternative to cash.
Now it's a shock to be asked for cash in most places. Haircuts are also the one place I usually need cash - are they all dodging tax?
Lending a friend a tenner.
Clubbing together to pay for a meal 5 people pay 20quid cash the 6th puts the meal on his card for 80 quid (often used by our games night crew when we have a get together and order chinese, shows as 1 card transaction but is actually 1 card and 5 cash)
Buying something out of the classified ads, a car, a sofa
Buying illicit services such as drugs, prostitution, hitmen, peers of the realm etc
Paying cash in hand, for example if I got my lawn cut and chucked the guy a tenner cash
Cash only businesses that aren't paying tax
Giving cash to a charity via donation box
Giving cash to a beggar or busker
Giving a tip in cash to a waiter
Yes I suspect there are a lot of cash transactions missing from the data
Only paid in cash.
Guineas.4 -
Your maths are off because there are several million young children who use no money at all...Pagan2 said:
6% is still 6 billion transactions a sizeable number.....23m use cash not at all or just once a month.....therefore 44m use cash more than once a month....as I said you are the minority you cash free hipster....what will happen is the same as with smart phones, cashless will increase to a certain amount and then plateau and you will never be free of cash and its something you really should be grateful for.....you don't need to use cash but if an authoritarian government that would use a fully trackable payments system if it existed gets in you will be able to drop back to cash and think "thank fuck they didn't listen to my evangelism".Anabobazina said:
The "never or rarely" number was 23 million people last year, with only 15% of all transactions in cash. That's expected to fall to 6% by 2032. At what stage do we have a national debate about abolishing it?Pagan2 said:
The number who never use cash isn't even 50% of people. The cashless are still the minority cash users are not a tiny proportion.Anabobazina said:
It's going to become a big policy question, probably fairly soon. Cash is dying. A large and growing proportion of the population never or rarely use it. It's like analogue telly – getting the holdouts to switch to digital was vexatious for a while, but it happened. Retaining cash when a tiny proportion of the population use it will be akin to retaining analogue telly.Pagan2 said:
I am curious why you are strident on this issue, most of those saying they should be able to continue to pay cash aren't telling you that you must use cash. They are just saying they want to retain the right to use cash instead of card/phone whatever.Anabobazina said:
I'm not calling you a liar, simply challenging the idea that they wouldn't learn to budget were cash unavailable. People adapt. Seatbelt paradox.Driver said:
Bills go out the day after payday, then they withdraw whatever's left in cash and budget accordingly.Anabobazina said:
I struggle with the veracity of such anecdotes. Do they pay their monthly bills by cash, at a post office? Their TV licence? Their mortgage? Their rent? How many people as a proportion of the UK population operate only in cash – and how exactly do they string a life together?Driver said:
Absolutely - I know a few people who like to use cash for budgeting because paying by card doesn't feel like spending money.ManchesterKurt said:
Because there will always be a proportion of the population that require cash as they are unable to deal with more modern ways of budgeting.Anabobazina said:
Why? Would you allow people to pay in postal orders or cheques or similarly obsolete payments?Selebian said:
If there's contactless (hell, even chip and pin) then I'm not too bothered about what else is available. Cash for those who prefer/need that should also be provided, I think.Pulpstar said:
Contactless is great. Phone apps for carparking just shouldn't be allowed. For one thing your debit card won't go out of battery for that 1% of time your phone is out of juice and you can't phone tap the contactless.Tres said:Council round here has moved to phone apps entirely for parking, even though they had machines available which could take contactless payments. Bonkers.
The frustrating thing is that any halfway decent parking app standard would be more convenient for most. Car reg(s) stored in app. Location services pinpoint the car park (or some NFC thing to swipe at worst). Choose your time and go, automatic payment. Extendable without returning to the car park. No queues. Many benefits. The current shit-show is not necessary.
My wife had a very severe stroke 5 years ago and has left her with tremendous mental issues, she cannot understand the difference between up or down, left or right, forwards or backwards. She cannot unlock doors, she cannot leave the house alone.
But she does have a level of financial independence as each month we take some money out of her bank and over the month she manages her spend as she can touch, feel and see her money.
My wife could not deal with a card (if nothing else her eye sight is so poor she cannot see the numbers on the keypads), take away cash and you take away about the only thing in her life that she has any level of independence over.
My wife may be a very extreme case, but there are probably far more people at that end of the spectrum than you would imagine.
Obviously, people who don't need to worry about having month left at the end of the money can merrily tap away.
You can call me a liar if you want.
So if no one is saying you have to be made to use cash...why are you so fervent on stopping those that want the option to continue having the option to use cash?
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2022/aug/18/uk-cashless-society-a-step-closer-as-more-than-23m-people-abandon-coins
Go use you devices we don't care and no thoughts of coercing you to use cash. Just keep your hands of our option to use cash if we want.0 -
Most Britons do not care much, if at all, for the coronation
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1646510460936790022?t=vdQgep81IUwVvmN9GVsYAg&s=190 -
I'm not misrepresenting. If you only use cash once a month then it's perfectly fair to describe that as "rarely".Pagan2 said:
It wasnt rarely that is Anabob misrepresentingDriver said:
I would be "rarely". That doesn't mean I think abolishing cash is acceptable.Anabobazina said:
The "never or rarely" number was 23 million people last year, with only 15% of all transactions in cash. That's expected to fall to 6% by 2032. At what stage do we have a national debate about abolishing it?Pagan2 said:
The number who never use cash isn't even 50% of people. The cashless are still the minority cash users are not a tiny proportion.Anabobazina said:
It's going to become a big policy question, probably fairly soon. Cash is dying. A large and growing proportion of the population never or rarely use it. It's like analogue telly – getting the holdouts to switch to digital was vexatious for a while, but it happened. Retaining cash when a tiny proportion of the population use it will be akin to retaining analogue telly.Pagan2 said:
I am curious why you are strident on this issue, most of those saying they should be able to continue to pay cash aren't telling you that you must use cash. They are just saying they want to retain the right to use cash instead of card/phone whatever.Anabobazina said:
I'm not calling you a liar, simply challenging the idea that they wouldn't learn to budget were cash unavailable. People adapt. Seatbelt paradox.Driver said:
Bills go out the day after payday, then they withdraw whatever's left in cash and budget accordingly.Anabobazina said:
I struggle with the veracity of such anecdotes. Do they pay their monthly bills by cash, at a post office? Their TV licence? Their mortgage? Their rent? How many people as a proportion of the UK population operate only in cash – and how exactly do they string a life together?Driver said:
Absolutely - I know a few people who like to use cash for budgeting because paying by card doesn't feel like spending money.ManchesterKurt said:
Because there will always be a proportion of the population that require cash as they are unable to deal with more modern ways of budgeting.Anabobazina said:
Why? Would you allow people to pay in postal orders or cheques or similarly obsolete payments?Selebian said:
If there's contactless (hell, even chip and pin) then I'm not too bothered about what else is available. Cash for those who prefer/need that should also be provided, I think.Pulpstar said:
Contactless is great. Phone apps for carparking just shouldn't be allowed. For one thing your debit card won't go out of battery for that 1% of time your phone is out of juice and you can't phone tap the contactless.Tres said:Council round here has moved to phone apps entirely for parking, even though they had machines available which could take contactless payments. Bonkers.
The frustrating thing is that any halfway decent parking app standard would be more convenient for most. Car reg(s) stored in app. Location services pinpoint the car park (or some NFC thing to swipe at worst). Choose your time and go, automatic payment. Extendable without returning to the car park. No queues. Many benefits. The current shit-show is not necessary.
My wife had a very severe stroke 5 years ago and has left her with tremendous mental issues, she cannot understand the difference between up or down, left or right, forwards or backwards. She cannot unlock doors, she cannot leave the house alone.
But she does have a level of financial independence as each month we take some money out of her bank and over the month she manages her spend as she can touch, feel and see her money.
My wife could not deal with a card (if nothing else her eye sight is so poor she cannot see the numbers on the keypads), take away cash and you take away about the only thing in her life that she has any level of independence over.
My wife may be a very extreme case, but there are probably far more people at that end of the spectrum than you would imagine.
Obviously, people who don't need to worry about having month left at the end of the money can merrily tap away.
You can call me a liar if you want.
So if no one is saying you have to be made to use cash...why are you so fervent on stopping those that want the option to continue having the option to use cash?
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2022/aug/18/uk-cashless-society-a-step-closer-as-more-than-23m-people-abandon-coins
"During 2021 there were 23.1 million consumers who used cash only once a month or not at all" is the quote... once or not at all. Rarely is not once
(And why do you always sound so angry in your posts?)0 -
A lordship a day?MarqueeMark said:
I'm liking the idea of a hitman peer of the realm.Pagan2 said:
What is also not being said here is that a lot of cash transactions are not actually even recorded so they are unreported making cashless seem a bigger proportion. Examples of unrecorded cash transactions and that some cashless transactions have 1 or more cash transactions behind themmalcolmg said:
If you were living in poverty and had a very limited budget you wouldAnabobazina said:
I struggle with the veracity of such anecdotes. Do they pay their monthly bills by cash, at a post office? Their TV licence? Their mortgage? Their rent? How many people as a proportion of the UK population operate only in cash – and how exactly do they string a life together?Driver said:
Absolutely - I know a few people who like to use cash for budgeting because paying by card doesn't feel like spending money.ManchesterKurt said:
Because there will always be a proportion of the population that require cash as they are unable to deal with more modern ways of budgeting.Anabobazina said:
Why? Would you allow people to pay in postal orders or cheques or similarly obsolete payments?Selebian said:
If there's contactless (hell, even chip and pin) then I'm not too bothered about what else is available. Cash for those who prefer/need that should also be provided, I think.Pulpstar said:
Contactless is great. Phone apps for carparking just shouldn't be allowed. For one thing your debit card won't go out of battery for that 1% of time your phone is out of juice and you can't phone tap the contactless.Tres said:Council round here has moved to phone apps entirely for parking, even though they had machines available which could take contactless payments. Bonkers.
The frustrating thing is that any halfway decent parking app standard would be more convenient for most. Car reg(s) stored in app. Location services pinpoint the car park (or some NFC thing to swipe at worst). Choose your time and go, automatic payment. Extendable without returning to the car park. No queues. Many benefits. The current shit-show is not necessary.
My wife had a very severe stroke 5 years ago and has left her with tremendous mental issues, she cannot understand the difference between up or down, left or right, forwards or backwards. She cannot unlock doors, she cannot leave the house alone.
But she does have a level of financial independence as each month we take some money out of her bank and over the month she manages her spend as she can touch, feel and see her money.
My wife could not deal with a card (if nothing else her eye sight is so poor she cannot see the numbers on the keypads), take away cash and you take away about the only thing in her life that she has any level of independence over.
My wife may be a very extreme case, but there are probably far more people at that end of the spectrum than you would imagine.
Obviously, people who don't need to worry about having month left at the end of the money can merrily tap away.
Well he would have to pay for card machine , line rental , etc. Bank transfer is free.Driver said:
My barber doesn't take cards but does take bank transfers, which I've never quite got my head around.Selebian said:
Surprising how things have changed in a decade. I was in Stockholm for work in 2010, arrived on delayed flight (snow at UK airport) very late and grabbed a cab from the centre to where I was staying with colleague - original plan was colleague to pick me up, but it was late, his wife was out on shift and young children so he culdn't leave as he would have done earlier. Asked for them to stop at a cash machine on the way so I could pay, only to find they had a card machine on-board. Seemed futuristic at the time; I'd never encountered that in UK.kjh said:
In the last few years I have only used cash for a haircut (yep I don't know why they only take cash). I did a holiday in Iceland a few years ago and never used cash once; I didn't have any. Adnams will not take cash in their pubs.Leon said:
I've just spent about two weeks going around Cornwall - from little villages to bigger towns. I needed cash just once - in a cafe in a remote cove - but that was only because their wifi was down so the machine would not workAnabobazina said:
Everywhere is MOVING TOWARDS cashlessness and to claim otherwise is to deny the clear evidence in front of you. As much as it might not appeal to your prejudices, I leave London regularly – particularly for hiking and biking tours in high-country remote places.ydoethur said:
I use cash, because as has been patiently explained to you before, outside Extortion City there are still lots of places that don't take cards because it's much more expensive particularly for small transactions. I know that a study put forward by the main card clearing house said otherwise but it was patently not telling the truth (as in, had forged its figures).Anabobazina said:
Agree entirely. In fact @ManchesterKurt has given an excellent if saddening counterexample – others just seem to be based on: "I like cash, dunno why".Leon said:
I've gone months in London without using cash. I always do have some, but it can stay unspent in my pocket for entire seasonsAnabobazina said:
Indeed. And it's risky, carrying it around. I imagine 'petty' robberies (in the absence of a more appropriate term) are much more prevalent in those countries where cash is the norm.Leon said:
Plus you can lose cash, it's a hassle to change it, you put it in the washing machine by mistake, and so on and so forthAnabobazina said:
It really is. A total timer waster –– "oh I have to go to the bank machine, where is the bank machine? Dunno, oh it's x miles away"Leon said:
In Thailand it is still 80% cash at least. It is really quite annoying have to go back to paper wads (let alone meaningless coins). It made me realise that cash is definitely doomed. Cash is a total painAnabobazina said:
I haven't carried a wallet for nearly two years. Both my watch and phone make payments so what exactly is the point of carting around a load of pointless plastic and paper?Cookie said:
Really?Anabobazina said:Re: cash, someone said to me the other day, have you seen the 'new' 50pm coin?
I replied that I hadn't seen it, nor a 50p coin of any kind, old, middle-aged or new, for about a decade.
Up until 2020, I had a coin jar, which accumulated change through the year and was periodically taken to the bank - it used to get about £400 a year in change. Since the pandemic, it no longer builds up ,and I have to go out of my way from time to time to get change to keep it stocked. But I do still need coins, for reasons including, er:
- transactions with children (the tooth fairy doesn't bring plastic)
- tips in restaurants (I want my money to go to the specific waiter/waitress who provided the service)
- buskers
- parking (most car parks accept payment by app but that is a massive pain in the arse, particularly if I don't have my glasses with me)
- filling a pint glass with, then pissing in it and throwing it from on high at 15 year old girls who have a different favourite football team to me (joking - I'm not a Liverpool fan).
It's not a massive list. But cash isn't dead yet.
EDIT: All that said, upon meeting a colleague for the first time in 2 years recently, I was shocked to find he no longer even carries a wallet - just does everything on his phone. Does he not worry about running out of battery? Does he not worry about losing his phone? Does he not worry about having his phone but not his glasses? Apparently not. Not for me, Clive.
Absolutely ridiculous persisting with it nowadays.
Cash is doomed, the same way real gold and silver coins were doomed back in the day, and the value of notes and coins became notional
It's rare among my friends that anyone carries cash – as it's pointless in London.
It just seems mad to believe that in twenty years we will still be reaching in purses and counting out bits of paper and circles of metal. I do sympathise with sad stories like that of @ManchesterKurt below - that's awful - but I don't see that stopping inevitable progress
What might kill cash off eventually is the number of bank branches that are being closed, which will make it much more difficult to obtain and secure it. That's what's happening in say, North Wales. And that is not because of the merits or demerits of physical cash but because (1) branches being shut down, however well-used, reduces overheads dramatically and (b) banks can charge more in card transaction fees than in cash deposit fees.
London is not a typical example and should also never be used as such. It's much more crowded, much more expensive and much younger than the average town in the UK, including for things like food and transport (coins are still needed for many bus journeys round here). It's therefore less practical to use cash and the population tends to be more addicted to their phones in any case. That doesn't mean just because London is moving towards cashlessness everywhere else will as well.
I haven't used cash for anything, anywhere in the UK, and haven't needed to. The idea that rural areas are still cash-only holdouts is an utter fantasy.
It was noticeable and I remember it precisely because it seemed so odd - to everyone. Actual Cash!
This is going to be a problem going forward for the very few who have no alternative to cash.
Now it's a shock to be asked for cash in most places. Haircuts are also the one place I usually need cash - are they all dodging tax?
Lending a friend a tenner.
Clubbing together to pay for a meal 5 people pay 20quid cash the 6th puts the meal on his card for 80 quid (often used by our games night crew when we have a get together and order chinese, shows as 1 card transaction but is actually 1 card and 5 cash)
Buying something out of the classified ads, a car, a sofa
Buying illicit services such as drugs, prostitution, hitmen, peers of the realm etc
Paying cash in hand, for example if I got my lawn cut and chucked the guy a tenner cash
Cash only businesses that aren't paying tax
Giving cash to a charity via donation box
Giving cash to a beggar or busker
Giving a tip in cash to a waiter
Yes I suspect there are a lot of cash transactions missing from the data
Only paid in cash.
Guineas.0 -
I used Kroner throughout my stay earlier this year - don't trust my bank not to charge exorbitant conversion fees. Didn't have any problem - you've found places refusing cash there?TimS said:
Cards in Scandinavian taxis, before the global era of Uber, were indeed a joy of business travel particularly as Kronor cash wasn’t any use elsewhere and tended to end up sitting around in drawers at home.
Never used Uber either. Different worlds!0 -
TV licence at the PO. Mortgage? - you're having a laugh. Rent - at the council office, or directly to the landlord, or paid by housing benefit.Anabobazina said:
I struggle with the veracity of such anecdotes. Do they pay their monthly bills by cash, at a post office? Their TV licence? Their mortgage? Their rent? How many people as a proportion of the UK population operate only in cash – and how exactly do they string a life together?
If you're very short, and juggling where to minimise debt, then cards/phones can be dangerous - it's really easier, at least for many elderly people, to keep track with cash of what they can actually afford.
Anyway - for most private services I wouldn't make cash a compulsory option - if a company wants to exclude some of its customers, that's up to them. But public services need to be available to everyone.2 -
What loony evangelism? I have said that I don't advocate banning it, simply that it is largely pointless, and actively counterproductive in many cases (see @Leon's points above). You insist on cash if you wish, but you'd struggle around here where many businesses are cashless, and it is rational for them to be so.Pagan2 said:
I don't get his loony evangelism approach.....no one is telling him he has to use cash ever if he doesn't want to. Why does it bother him so much that some of us are going cashless....nah pass on that thanks for the offerrcs1000 said:
That's simply not true: the homeless need cash to buy their Tennant's lager.Anabobazina said:
Indeed. And it's risky, carrying it around. I imagine 'petty' robberies (in the absence of a more appropriate term) are much more prevalent in those countries where cash is the norm.Leon said:
Plus you can lose cash, it's a hassle to change it, you put it in the washing machine by mistake, and so on and so forthAnabobazina said:
It really is. A total timer waster –– "oh I have to go to the bank machine, where is the bank machine? Dunno, oh it's x miles away"Leon said:
In Thailand it is still 80% cash at least. It is really quite annoying have to go back to paper wads (let alone meaningless coins). It made me realise that cash is definitely doomed. Cash is a total painAnabobazina said:
I haven't carried a wallet for nearly two years. Both my watch and phone make payments so what exactly is the point of carting around a load of pointless plastic and paper?Cookie said:
Really?Anabobazina said:Re: cash, someone said to me the other day, have you seen the 'new' 50pm coin?
I replied that I hadn't seen it, nor a 50p coin of any kind, old, middle-aged or new, for about a decade.
Up until 2020, I had a coin jar, which accumulated change through the year and was periodically taken to the bank - it used to get about £400 a year in change. Since the pandemic, it no longer builds up ,and I have to go out of my way from time to time to get change to keep it stocked. But I do still need coins, for reasons including, er:
- transactions with children (the tooth fairy doesn't bring plastic)
- tips in restaurants (I want my money to go to the specific waiter/waitress who provided the service)
- buskers
- parking (most car parks accept payment by app but that is a massive pain in the arse, particularly if I don't have my glasses with me)
- filling a pint glass with, then pissing in it and throwing it from on high at 15 year old girls who have a different favourite football team to me (joking - I'm not a Liverpool fan).
It's not a massive list. But cash isn't dead yet.
EDIT: All that said, upon meeting a colleague for the first time in 2 years recently, I was shocked to find he no longer even carries a wallet - just does everything on his phone. Does he not worry about running out of battery? Does he not worry about losing his phone? Does he not worry about having his phone but not his glasses? Apparently not. Not for me, Clive.
Absolutely ridiculous persisting with it nowadays.
Cash is doomed, the same way real gold and silver coins were doomed back in the day, and the value of notes and coins became notional
It's rare among my friends that anyone carries cash – as it's pointless in London.
Perhaps is is you who is the loony evangelist – for cash. Have you ever considered that?0 -
Switch to Revolut or Monzo. They're pretty good about not charging for foreign currency transactions.NickPalmer said:
I used Kroner throughout my stay earlier this year - don't trust my bank not to charge exorbitant conversion fees. Didn't have any problem - you've found places refusing cash there?TimS said:
Cards in Scandinavian taxis, before the global era of Uber, were indeed a joy of business travel particularly as Kronor cash wasn’t any use elsewhere and tended to end up sitting around in drawers at home.
0 -
Should I buy my replacement irony meter with cash, or find a place that takes card?Anabobazina said:
What loony evangelism? I have said that I don't advocate banning it, simply that it is largely pointless, and actively counterproductive in many cases (see @Leon's points above). You insist on cash if you wish, but you'd struggle around here where many businesses are cashless, and it is rational for them to be so.Pagan2 said:
I don't get his loony evangelism approach.....no one is telling him he has to use cash ever if he doesn't want to. Why does it bother him so much that some of us are going cashless....nah pass on that thanks for the offerrcs1000 said:
That's simply not true: the homeless need cash to buy their Tennant's lager.Anabobazina said:
Indeed. And it's risky, carrying it around. I imagine 'petty' robberies (in the absence of a more appropriate term) are much more prevalent in those countries where cash is the norm.Leon said:
Plus you can lose cash, it's a hassle to change it, you put it in the washing machine by mistake, and so on and so forthAnabobazina said:
It really is. A total timer waster –– "oh I have to go to the bank machine, where is the bank machine? Dunno, oh it's x miles away"Leon said:
In Thailand it is still 80% cash at least. It is really quite annoying have to go back to paper wads (let alone meaningless coins). It made me realise that cash is definitely doomed. Cash is a total painAnabobazina said:
I haven't carried a wallet for nearly two years. Both my watch and phone make payments so what exactly is the point of carting around a load of pointless plastic and paper?Cookie said:
Really?Anabobazina said:Re: cash, someone said to me the other day, have you seen the 'new' 50pm coin?
I replied that I hadn't seen it, nor a 50p coin of any kind, old, middle-aged or new, for about a decade.
Up until 2020, I had a coin jar, which accumulated change through the year and was periodically taken to the bank - it used to get about £400 a year in change. Since the pandemic, it no longer builds up ,and I have to go out of my way from time to time to get change to keep it stocked. But I do still need coins, for reasons including, er:
- transactions with children (the tooth fairy doesn't bring plastic)
- tips in restaurants (I want my money to go to the specific waiter/waitress who provided the service)
- buskers
- parking (most car parks accept payment by app but that is a massive pain in the arse, particularly if I don't have my glasses with me)
- filling a pint glass with, then pissing in it and throwing it from on high at 15 year old girls who have a different favourite football team to me (joking - I'm not a Liverpool fan).
It's not a massive list. But cash isn't dead yet.
EDIT: All that said, upon meeting a colleague for the first time in 2 years recently, I was shocked to find he no longer even carries a wallet - just does everything on his phone. Does he not worry about running out of battery? Does he not worry about losing his phone? Does he not worry about having his phone but not his glasses? Apparently not. Not for me, Clive.
Absolutely ridiculous persisting with it nowadays.
Cash is doomed, the same way real gold and silver coins were doomed back in the day, and the value of notes and coins became notional
It's rare among my friends that anyone carries cash – as it's pointless in London.
Perhaps is is you who is the loony evangelist – for cash. Have you ever considered that?0 -
a
Surely a gentleman would only take payment in land?MarqueeMark said:
I'm liking the idea of a hitman peer of the realm.Pagan2 said:
What is also not being said here is that a lot of cash transactions are not actually even recorded so they are unreported making cashless seem a bigger proportion. Examples of unrecorded cash transactions and that some cashless transactions have 1 or more cash transactions behind themmalcolmg said:
If you were living in poverty and had a very limited budget you wouldAnabobazina said:
I struggle with the veracity of such anecdotes. Do they pay their monthly bills by cash, at a post office? Their TV licence? Their mortgage? Their rent? How many people as a proportion of the UK population operate only in cash – and how exactly do they string a life together?Driver said:
Absolutely - I know a few people who like to use cash for budgeting because paying by card doesn't feel like spending money.ManchesterKurt said:
Because there will always be a proportion of the population that require cash as they are unable to deal with more modern ways of budgeting.Anabobazina said:
Why? Would you allow people to pay in postal orders or cheques or similarly obsolete payments?Selebian said:
If there's contactless (hell, even chip and pin) then I'm not too bothered about what else is available. Cash for those who prefer/need that should also be provided, I think.Pulpstar said:
Contactless is great. Phone apps for carparking just shouldn't be allowed. For one thing your debit card won't go out of battery for that 1% of time your phone is out of juice and you can't phone tap the contactless.Tres said:Council round here has moved to phone apps entirely for parking, even though they had machines available which could take contactless payments. Bonkers.
The frustrating thing is that any halfway decent parking app standard would be more convenient for most. Car reg(s) stored in app. Location services pinpoint the car park (or some NFC thing to swipe at worst). Choose your time and go, automatic payment. Extendable without returning to the car park. No queues. Many benefits. The current shit-show is not necessary.
My wife had a very severe stroke 5 years ago and has left her with tremendous mental issues, she cannot understand the difference between up or down, left or right, forwards or backwards. She cannot unlock doors, she cannot leave the house alone.
But she does have a level of financial independence as each month we take some money out of her bank and over the month she manages her spend as she can touch, feel and see her money.
My wife could not deal with a card (if nothing else her eye sight is so poor she cannot see the numbers on the keypads), take away cash and you take away about the only thing in her life that she has any level of independence over.
My wife may be a very extreme case, but there are probably far more people at that end of the spectrum than you would imagine.
Obviously, people who don't need to worry about having month left at the end of the money can merrily tap away.
Well he would have to pay for card machine , line rental , etc. Bank transfer is free.Driver said:
My barber doesn't take cards but does take bank transfers, which I've never quite got my head around.Selebian said:
Surprising how things have changed in a decade. I was in Stockholm for work in 2010, arrived on delayed flight (snow at UK airport) very late and grabbed a cab from the centre to where I was staying with colleague - original plan was colleague to pick me up, but it was late, his wife was out on shift and young children so he culdn't leave as he would have done earlier. Asked for them to stop at a cash machine on the way so I could pay, only to find they had a card machine on-board. Seemed futuristic at the time; I'd never encountered that in UK.kjh said:
In the last few years I have only used cash for a haircut (yep I don't know why they only take cash). I did a holiday in Iceland a few years ago and never used cash once; I didn't have any. Adnams will not take cash in their pubs.Leon said:
I've just spent about two weeks going around Cornwall - from little villages to bigger towns. I needed cash just once - in a cafe in a remote cove - but that was only because their wifi was down so the machine would not workAnabobazina said:
Everywhere is MOVING TOWARDS cashlessness and to claim otherwise is to deny the clear evidence in front of you. As much as it might not appeal to your prejudices, I leave London regularly – particularly for hiking and biking tours in high-country remote places.ydoethur said:
I use cash, because as has been patiently explained to you before, outside Extortion City there are still lots of places that don't take cards because it's much more expensive particularly for small transactions. I know that a study put forward by the main card clearing house said otherwise but it was patently not telling the truth (as in, had forged its figures).Anabobazina said:
Agree entirely. In fact @ManchesterKurt has given an excellent if saddening counterexample – others just seem to be based on: "I like cash, dunno why".Leon said:
I've gone months in London without using cash. I always do have some, but it can stay unspent in my pocket for entire seasonsAnabobazina said:
Indeed. And it's risky, carrying it around. I imagine 'petty' robberies (in the absence of a more appropriate term) are much more prevalent in those countries where cash is the norm.Leon said:
Plus you can lose cash, it's a hassle to change it, you put it in the washing machine by mistake, and so on and so forthAnabobazina said:
It really is. A total timer waster –– "oh I have to go to the bank machine, where is the bank machine? Dunno, oh it's x miles away"Leon said:
In Thailand it is still 80% cash at least. It is really quite annoying have to go back to paper wads (let alone meaningless coins). It made me realise that cash is definitely doomed. Cash is a total painAnabobazina said:
I haven't carried a wallet for nearly two years. Both my watch and phone make payments so what exactly is the point of carting around a load of pointless plastic and paper?Cookie said:
Really?Anabobazina said:Re: cash, someone said to me the other day, have you seen the 'new' 50pm coin?
I replied that I hadn't seen it, nor a 50p coin of any kind, old, middle-aged or new, for about a decade.
Up until 2020, I had a coin jar, which accumulated change through the year and was periodically taken to the bank - it used to get about £400 a year in change. Since the pandemic, it no longer builds up ,and I have to go out of my way from time to time to get change to keep it stocked. But I do still need coins, for reasons including, er:
- transactions with children (the tooth fairy doesn't bring plastic)
- tips in restaurants (I want my money to go to the specific waiter/waitress who provided the service)
- buskers
- parking (most car parks accept payment by app but that is a massive pain in the arse, particularly if I don't have my glasses with me)
- filling a pint glass with, then pissing in it and throwing it from on high at 15 year old girls who have a different favourite football team to me (joking - I'm not a Liverpool fan).
It's not a massive list. But cash isn't dead yet.
EDIT: All that said, upon meeting a colleague for the first time in 2 years recently, I was shocked to find he no longer even carries a wallet - just does everything on his phone. Does he not worry about running out of battery? Does he not worry about losing his phone? Does he not worry about having his phone but not his glasses? Apparently not. Not for me, Clive.
Absolutely ridiculous persisting with it nowadays.
Cash is doomed, the same way real gold and silver coins were doomed back in the day, and the value of notes and coins became notional
It's rare among my friends that anyone carries cash – as it's pointless in London.
It just seems mad to believe that in twenty years we will still be reaching in purses and counting out bits of paper and circles of metal. I do sympathise with sad stories like that of @ManchesterKurt below - that's awful - but I don't see that stopping inevitable progress
What might kill cash off eventually is the number of bank branches that are being closed, which will make it much more difficult to obtain and secure it. That's what's happening in say, North Wales. And that is not because of the merits or demerits of physical cash but because (1) branches being shut down, however well-used, reduces overheads dramatically and (b) banks can charge more in card transaction fees than in cash deposit fees.
London is not a typical example and should also never be used as such. It's much more crowded, much more expensive and much younger than the average town in the UK, including for things like food and transport (coins are still needed for many bus journeys round here). It's therefore less practical to use cash and the population tends to be more addicted to their phones in any case. That doesn't mean just because London is moving towards cashlessness everywhere else will as well.
I haven't used cash for anything, anywhere in the UK, and haven't needed to. The idea that rural areas are still cash-only holdouts is an utter fantasy.
It was noticeable and I remember it precisely because it seemed so odd - to everyone. Actual Cash!
This is going to be a problem going forward for the very few who have no alternative to cash.
Now it's a shock to be asked for cash in most places. Haircuts are also the one place I usually need cash - are they all dodging tax?
Lending a friend a tenner.
Clubbing together to pay for a meal 5 people pay 20quid cash the 6th puts the meal on his card for 80 quid (often used by our games night crew when we have a get together and order chinese, shows as 1 card transaction but is actually 1 card and 5 cash)
Buying something out of the classified ads, a car, a sofa
Buying illicit services such as drugs, prostitution, hitmen, peers of the realm etc
Paying cash in hand, for example if I got my lawn cut and chucked the guy a tenner cash
Cash only businesses that aren't paying tax
Giving cash to a charity via donation box
Giving cash to a beggar or busker
Giving a tip in cash to a waiter
Yes I suspect there are a lot of cash transactions missing from the data
Only paid in cash.
Guineas.0 -
A peer would want payment in sods, perhaps?Malmesbury said:a
Surely a gentleman would only take payment in land?MarqueeMark said:
I'm liking the idea of a hitman peer of the realm.Pagan2 said:
What is also not being said here is that a lot of cash transactions are not actually even recorded so they are unreported making cashless seem a bigger proportion. Examples of unrecorded cash transactions and that some cashless transactions have 1 or more cash transactions behind themmalcolmg said:
If you were living in poverty and had a very limited budget you wouldAnabobazina said:
I struggle with the veracity of such anecdotes. Do they pay their monthly bills by cash, at a post office? Their TV licence? Their mortgage? Their rent? How many people as a proportion of the UK population operate only in cash – and how exactly do they string a life together?Driver said:
Absolutely - I know a few people who like to use cash for budgeting because paying by card doesn't feel like spending money.ManchesterKurt said:
Because there will always be a proportion of the population that require cash as they are unable to deal with more modern ways of budgeting.Anabobazina said:
Why? Would you allow people to pay in postal orders or cheques or similarly obsolete payments?Selebian said:
If there's contactless (hell, even chip and pin) then I'm not too bothered about what else is available. Cash for those who prefer/need that should also be provided, I think.Pulpstar said:
Contactless is great. Phone apps for carparking just shouldn't be allowed. For one thing your debit card won't go out of battery for that 1% of time your phone is out of juice and you can't phone tap the contactless.Tres said:Council round here has moved to phone apps entirely for parking, even though they had machines available which could take contactless payments. Bonkers.
The frustrating thing is that any halfway decent parking app standard would be more convenient for most. Car reg(s) stored in app. Location services pinpoint the car park (or some NFC thing to swipe at worst). Choose your time and go, automatic payment. Extendable without returning to the car park. No queues. Many benefits. The current shit-show is not necessary.
My wife had a very severe stroke 5 years ago and has left her with tremendous mental issues, she cannot understand the difference between up or down, left or right, forwards or backwards. She cannot unlock doors, she cannot leave the house alone.
But she does have a level of financial independence as each month we take some money out of her bank and over the month she manages her spend as she can touch, feel and see her money.
My wife could not deal with a card (if nothing else her eye sight is so poor she cannot see the numbers on the keypads), take away cash and you take away about the only thing in her life that she has any level of independence over.
My wife may be a very extreme case, but there are probably far more people at that end of the spectrum than you would imagine.
Obviously, people who don't need to worry about having month left at the end of the money can merrily tap away.
Well he would have to pay for card machine , line rental , etc. Bank transfer is free.Driver said:
My barber doesn't take cards but does take bank transfers, which I've never quite got my head around.Selebian said:
Surprising how things have changed in a decade. I was in Stockholm for work in 2010, arrived on delayed flight (snow at UK airport) very late and grabbed a cab from the centre to where I was staying with colleague - original plan was colleague to pick me up, but it was late, his wife was out on shift and young children so he culdn't leave as he would have done earlier. Asked for them to stop at a cash machine on the way so I could pay, only to find they had a card machine on-board. Seemed futuristic at the time; I'd never encountered that in UK.kjh said:
In the last few years I have only used cash for a haircut (yep I don't know why they only take cash). I did a holiday in Iceland a few years ago and never used cash once; I didn't have any. Adnams will not take cash in their pubs.Leon said:
I've just spent about two weeks going around Cornwall - from little villages to bigger towns. I needed cash just once - in a cafe in a remote cove - but that was only because their wifi was down so the machine would not workAnabobazina said:
Everywhere is MOVING TOWARDS cashlessness and to claim otherwise is to deny the clear evidence in front of you. As much as it might not appeal to your prejudices, I leave London regularly – particularly for hiking and biking tours in high-country remote places.ydoethur said:
I use cash, because as has been patiently explained to you before, outside Extortion City there are still lots of places that don't take cards because it's much more expensive particularly for small transactions. I know that a study put forward by the main card clearing house said otherwise but it was patently not telling the truth (as in, had forged its figures).Anabobazina said:
Agree entirely. In fact @ManchesterKurt has given an excellent if saddening counterexample – others just seem to be based on: "I like cash, dunno why".Leon said:
I've gone months in London without using cash. I always do have some, but it can stay unspent in my pocket for entire seasonsAnabobazina said:
Indeed. And it's risky, carrying it around. I imagine 'petty' robberies (in the absence of a more appropriate term) are much more prevalent in those countries where cash is the norm.Leon said:
Plus you can lose cash, it's a hassle to change it, you put it in the washing machine by mistake, and so on and so forthAnabobazina said:
It really is. A total timer waster –– "oh I have to go to the bank machine, where is the bank machine? Dunno, oh it's x miles away"Leon said:
In Thailand it is still 80% cash at least. It is really quite annoying have to go back to paper wads (let alone meaningless coins). It made me realise that cash is definitely doomed. Cash is a total painAnabobazina said:
I haven't carried a wallet for nearly two years. Both my watch and phone make payments so what exactly is the point of carting around a load of pointless plastic and paper?Cookie said:
Really?Anabobazina said:Re: cash, someone said to me the other day, have you seen the 'new' 50pm coin?
I replied that I hadn't seen it, nor a 50p coin of any kind, old, middle-aged or new, for about a decade.
Up until 2020, I had a coin jar, which accumulated change through the year and was periodically taken to the bank - it used to get about £400 a year in change. Since the pandemic, it no longer builds up ,and I have to go out of my way from time to time to get change to keep it stocked. But I do still need coins, for reasons including, er:
- transactions with children (the tooth fairy doesn't bring plastic)
- tips in restaurants (I want my money to go to the specific waiter/waitress who provided the service)
- buskers
- parking (most car parks accept payment by app but that is a massive pain in the arse, particularly if I don't have my glasses with me)
- filling a pint glass with, then pissing in it and throwing it from on high at 15 year old girls who have a different favourite football team to me (joking - I'm not a Liverpool fan).
It's not a massive list. But cash isn't dead yet.
EDIT: All that said, upon meeting a colleague for the first time in 2 years recently, I was shocked to find he no longer even carries a wallet - just does everything on his phone. Does he not worry about running out of battery? Does he not worry about losing his phone? Does he not worry about having his phone but not his glasses? Apparently not. Not for me, Clive.
Absolutely ridiculous persisting with it nowadays.
Cash is doomed, the same way real gold and silver coins were doomed back in the day, and the value of notes and coins became notional
It's rare among my friends that anyone carries cash – as it's pointless in London.
It just seems mad to believe that in twenty years we will still be reaching in purses and counting out bits of paper and circles of metal. I do sympathise with sad stories like that of @ManchesterKurt below - that's awful - but I don't see that stopping inevitable progress
What might kill cash off eventually is the number of bank branches that are being closed, which will make it much more difficult to obtain and secure it. That's what's happening in say, North Wales. And that is not because of the merits or demerits of physical cash but because (1) branches being shut down, however well-used, reduces overheads dramatically and (b) banks can charge more in card transaction fees than in cash deposit fees.
London is not a typical example and should also never be used as such. It's much more crowded, much more expensive and much younger than the average town in the UK, including for things like food and transport (coins are still needed for many bus journeys round here). It's therefore less practical to use cash and the population tends to be more addicted to their phones in any case. That doesn't mean just because London is moving towards cashlessness everywhere else will as well.
I haven't used cash for anything, anywhere in the UK, and haven't needed to. The idea that rural areas are still cash-only holdouts is an utter fantasy.
It was noticeable and I remember it precisely because it seemed so odd - to everyone. Actual Cash!
This is going to be a problem going forward for the very few who have no alternative to cash.
Now it's a shock to be asked for cash in most places. Haircuts are also the one place I usually need cash - are they all dodging tax?
Lending a friend a tenner.
Clubbing together to pay for a meal 5 people pay 20quid cash the 6th puts the meal on his card for 80 quid (often used by our games night crew when we have a get together and order chinese, shows as 1 card transaction but is actually 1 card and 5 cash)
Buying something out of the classified ads, a car, a sofa
Buying illicit services such as drugs, prostitution, hitmen, peers of the realm etc
Paying cash in hand, for example if I got my lawn cut and chucked the guy a tenner cash
Cash only businesses that aren't paying tax
Giving cash to a charity via donation box
Giving cash to a beggar or busker
Giving a tip in cash to a waiter
Yes I suspect there are a lot of cash transactions missing from the data
Only paid in cash.
Guineas.0 -
Very useful vantage point if no convenient termite hill. And not very many termites in Devon (though IIRC there are some, adding to the terrors of house-buying).MarqueeMark said:Delivered about 500 leaflets today (weather much more conducive than yesterday, when thunder, lightning and 50 mph horizontal hail made for challenging conditions....)
Meerkat update: the only ones seen were 3 very small and frankly very poorly executed ones, sat on a branch. A branch! What did the designer think they were, blue tits?
https://www.flickr.com/photos/rexness/4390984783
https://focusedcollection.com/172749182/stock-photo-meerkat-sitting-branch-kgalagadi-transfrontier.html
Edit: Correction: Devonian termites ex-termitinated.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/dec/21/a-world-first-devon-calls-victory-in-27-year-war-on-termites0 -
I doubt I would find anywhere I would want to give my custom too that was cashless in any case. They seem to be the sort of place that needs to get over themselves.Anabobazina said:
What loony evangelism? I have said that I don't advocate banning it, simply that it is largely pointless, and actively counterproductive in many cases (see @Leon's points above). You insist on cash if you wish, but you'd struggle around here where many businesses are cashless, and it is rational for them to be so.Pagan2 said:
I don't get his loony evangelism approach.....no one is telling him he has to use cash ever if he doesn't want to. Why does it bother him so much that some of us are going cashless....nah pass on that thanks for the offerrcs1000 said:
That's simply not true: the homeless need cash to buy their Tennant's lager.Anabobazina said:
Indeed. And it's risky, carrying it around. I imagine 'petty' robberies (in the absence of a more appropriate term) are much more prevalent in those countries where cash is the norm.Leon said:
Plus you can lose cash, it's a hassle to change it, you put it in the washing machine by mistake, and so on and so forthAnabobazina said:
It really is. A total timer waster –– "oh I have to go to the bank machine, where is the bank machine? Dunno, oh it's x miles away"Leon said:
In Thailand it is still 80% cash at least. It is really quite annoying have to go back to paper wads (let alone meaningless coins). It made me realise that cash is definitely doomed. Cash is a total painAnabobazina said:
I haven't carried a wallet for nearly two years. Both my watch and phone make payments so what exactly is the point of carting around a load of pointless plastic and paper?Cookie said:
Really?Anabobazina said:Re: cash, someone said to me the other day, have you seen the 'new' 50pm coin?
I replied that I hadn't seen it, nor a 50p coin of any kind, old, middle-aged or new, for about a decade.
Up until 2020, I had a coin jar, which accumulated change through the year and was periodically taken to the bank - it used to get about £400 a year in change. Since the pandemic, it no longer builds up ,and I have to go out of my way from time to time to get change to keep it stocked. But I do still need coins, for reasons including, er:
- transactions with children (the tooth fairy doesn't bring plastic)
- tips in restaurants (I want my money to go to the specific waiter/waitress who provided the service)
- buskers
- parking (most car parks accept payment by app but that is a massive pain in the arse, particularly if I don't have my glasses with me)
- filling a pint glass with, then pissing in it and throwing it from on high at 15 year old girls who have a different favourite football team to me (joking - I'm not a Liverpool fan).
It's not a massive list. But cash isn't dead yet.
EDIT: All that said, upon meeting a colleague for the first time in 2 years recently, I was shocked to find he no longer even carries a wallet - just does everything on his phone. Does he not worry about running out of battery? Does he not worry about losing his phone? Does he not worry about having his phone but not his glasses? Apparently not. Not for me, Clive.
Absolutely ridiculous persisting with it nowadays.
Cash is doomed, the same way real gold and silver coins were doomed back in the day, and the value of notes and coins became notional
It's rare among my friends that anyone carries cash – as it's pointless in London.
Perhaps is is you who is the loony evangelist – for cash. Have you ever considered that?0 -
Yes - I've travelled around a couple of Scandinavian countries and never used cash.Fishing said:
Switch to Revolut or Monzo. They're pretty good about not charging for foreign currency transactions.NickPalmer said:
I used Kroner throughout my stay earlier this year - don't trust my bank not to charge exorbitant conversion fees. Didn't have any problem - you've found places refusing cash there?TimS said:
Cards in Scandinavian taxis, before the global era of Uber, were indeed a joy of business travel particularly as Kronor cash wasn’t any use elsewhere and tended to end up sitting around in drawers at home.
The rates that Revolut use are extremely good - their profit comes from a tiny spread.0 -
J
Full-scale row on local Facebook page between Greens ….. main opposition…..and the Tories over alleged lies in a leaflet. Could get nasty!MarqueeMark said:Delivered about 500 leaflets today (weather much more conducive than yesterday, when thunder, lightning and 50 mph horizontal hail made for challenging conditions....)
Meerkat update: the only ones seen were 3 very small and frankly very poorly executed ones, sat on a branch. A branch! What did the designer think they were, blue tits?
I hope! Fun watching!0 -
"Absolutely ridiculous persisting with it nowadays"?Anabobazina said:
What loony evangelism?Pagan2 said:
I don't get his loony evangelism approach.....no one is telling him he has to use cash ever if he doesn't want to. Why does it bother him so much that some of us are going cashless....nah pass on that thanks for the offerrcs1000 said:
That's simply not true: the homeless need cash to buy their Tennant's lager.Anabobazina said:
Indeed. And it's risky, carrying it around. I imagine 'petty' robberies (in the absence of a more appropriate term) are much more prevalent in those countries where cash is the norm.Leon said:
Plus you can lose cash, it's a hassle to change it, you put it in the washing machine by mistake, and so on and so forthAnabobazina said:
It really is. A total timer waster –– "oh I have to go to the bank machine, where is the bank machine? Dunno, oh it's x miles away"Leon said:
In Thailand it is still 80% cash at least. It is really quite annoying have to go back to paper wads (let alone meaningless coins). It made me realise that cash is definitely doomed. Cash is a total painAnabobazina said:
I haven't carried a wallet for nearly two years. Both my watch and phone make payments so what exactly is the point of carting around a load of pointless plastic and paper?Cookie said:
Really?Anabobazina said:Re: cash, someone said to me the other day, have you seen the 'new' 50pm coin?
I replied that I hadn't seen it, nor a 50p coin of any kind, old, middle-aged or new, for about a decade.
Up until 2020, I had a coin jar, which accumulated change through the year and was periodically taken to the bank - it used to get about £400 a year in change. Since the pandemic, it no longer builds up ,and I have to go out of my way from time to time to get change to keep it stocked. But I do still need coins, for reasons including, er:
- transactions with children (the tooth fairy doesn't bring plastic)
- tips in restaurants (I want my money to go to the specific waiter/waitress who provided the service)
- buskers
- parking (most car parks accept payment by app but that is a massive pain in the arse, particularly if I don't have my glasses with me)
- filling a pint glass with, then pissing in it and throwing it from on high at 15 year old girls who have a different favourite football team to me (joking - I'm not a Liverpool fan).
It's not a massive list. But cash isn't dead yet.
EDIT: All that said, upon meeting a colleague for the first time in 2 years recently, I was shocked to find he no longer even carries a wallet - just does everything on his phone. Does he not worry about running out of battery? Does he not worry about losing his phone? Does he not worry about having his phone but not his glasses? Apparently not. Not for me, Clive.
Absolutely ridiculous persisting with it nowadays.
Cash is doomed, the same way real gold and silver coins were doomed back in the day, and the value of notes and coins became notional
It's rare among my friends that anyone carries cash – as it's pointless in London.0 -
I sound angry because there are fuckwits like you always on every subject going yes I don't need that and all those poor people they don't need it either they can learn to cope. Sometimes from the left sometimes from the right. I particularly loved the way you batted aside the reference to those that have dyscalculia....presumably not so right on as dyslexia where you would be shrieking like a banshee if someone tried to hold them to account for their spelling and saying they they should just use a spellchecker and learn to copeAnabobazina said:
I'm not misrepresenting. If you only use cash once a month then it's perfectly fair to describe that as "rarely".Pagan2 said:
It wasnt rarely that is Anabob misrepresentingDriver said:
I would be "rarely". That doesn't mean I think abolishing cash is acceptable.Anabobazina said:
The "never or rarely" number was 23 million people last year, with only 15% of all transactions in cash. That's expected to fall to 6% by 2032. At what stage do we have a national debate about abolishing it?Pagan2 said:
The number who never use cash isn't even 50% of people. The cashless are still the minority cash users are not a tiny proportion.Anabobazina said:
It's going to become a big policy question, probably fairly soon. Cash is dying. A large and growing proportion of the population never or rarely use it. It's like analogue telly – getting the holdouts to switch to digital was vexatious for a while, but it happened. Retaining cash when a tiny proportion of the population use it will be akin to retaining analogue telly.Pagan2 said:
I am curious why you are strident on this issue, most of those saying they should be able to continue to pay cash aren't telling you that you must use cash. They are just saying they want to retain the right to use cash instead of card/phone whatever.Anabobazina said:
I'm not calling you a liar, simply challenging the idea that they wouldn't learn to budget were cash unavailable. People adapt. Seatbelt paradox.Driver said:
Bills go out the day after payday, then they withdraw whatever's left in cash and budget accordingly.Anabobazina said:
I struggle with the veracity of such anecdotes. Do they pay their monthly bills by cash, at a post office? Their TV licence? Their mortgage? Their rent? How many people as a proportion of the UK population operate only in cash – and how exactly do they string a life together?Driver said:
Absolutely - I know a few people who like to use cash for budgeting because paying by card doesn't feel like spending money.ManchesterKurt said:
Because there will always be a proportion of the population that require cash as they are unable to deal with more modern ways of budgeting.Anabobazina said:
Why? Would you allow people to pay in postal orders or cheques or similarly obsolete payments?Selebian said:
If there's contactless (hell, even chip and pin) then I'm not too bothered about what else is available. Cash for those who prefer/need that should also be provided, I think.Pulpstar said:
Contactless is great. Phone apps for carparking just shouldn't be allowed. For one thing your debit card won't go out of battery for that 1% of time your phone is out of juice and you can't phone tap the contactless.Tres said:Council round here has moved to phone apps entirely for parking, even though they had machines available which could take contactless payments. Bonkers.
The frustrating thing is that any halfway decent parking app standard would be more convenient for most. Car reg(s) stored in app. Location services pinpoint the car park (or some NFC thing to swipe at worst). Choose your time and go, automatic payment. Extendable without returning to the car park. No queues. Many benefits. The current shit-show is not necessary.
My wife had a very severe stroke 5 years ago and has left her with tremendous mental issues, she cannot understand the difference between up or down, left or right, forwards or backwards. She cannot unlock doors, she cannot leave the house alone.
But she does have a level of financial independence as each month we take some money out of her bank and over the month she manages her spend as she can touch, feel and see her money.
My wife could not deal with a card (if nothing else her eye sight is so poor she cannot see the numbers on the keypads), take away cash and you take away about the only thing in her life that she has any level of independence over.
My wife may be a very extreme case, but there are probably far more people at that end of the spectrum than you would imagine.
Obviously, people who don't need to worry about having month left at the end of the money can merrily tap away.
You can call me a liar if you want.
So if no one is saying you have to be made to use cash...why are you so fervent on stopping those that want the option to continue having the option to use cash?
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2022/aug/18/uk-cashless-society-a-step-closer-as-more-than-23m-people-abandon-coins
"During 2021 there were 23.1 million consumers who used cash only once a month or not at all" is the quote... once or not at all. Rarely is not once
(And why do you always sound so angry in your posts?)0 -
Rather different from the last polling which PBRoyalists got so excited about. Will/might watch: probably not/definitely not is the now traditional 48:52.Big_G_NorthWales said:Most Britons do not care much, if at all, for the coronation
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1646510460936790022?t=vdQgep81IUwVvmN9GVsYAg&s=19
On that basis England'd still be a republic!0 -
I have a a Starling account for that purpose. Also get notifications with each one so you see your exchange rate in real time and know when your card is nicked or scammed, provided your phone isn't also nicked!Fishing said:
Switch to Revolut or Monzo. They're pretty good about not charging for foreign currency transactions.NickPalmer said:
I used Kroner throughout my stay earlier this year - don't trust my bank not to charge exorbitant conversion fees. Didn't have any problem - you've found places refusing cash there?TimS said:
Cards in Scandinavian taxis, before the global era of Uber, were indeed a joy of business travel particularly as Kronor cash wasn’t any use elsewhere and tended to end up sitting around in drawers at home.1 -
0
-
He's actually very reasonable on most subjects. But he gets very agitated about cash for some reason. A burning and irrational hatred of it extrapolated from its lower than average use in London to the rest of the country by using forged surveys and waving away all actual evidence that contradicts his views.Driver said:
"Absolutely ridiculous persisting with it nowadays"?Anabobazina said:
What loony evangelism?Pagan2 said:
I don't get his loony evangelism approach.....no one is telling him he has to use cash ever if he doesn't want to. Why does it bother him so much that some of us are going cashless....nah pass on that thanks for the offerrcs1000 said:
That's simply not true: the homeless need cash to buy their Tennant's lager.Anabobazina said:
Indeed. And it's risky, carrying it around. I imagine 'petty' robberies (in the absence of a more appropriate term) are much more prevalent in those countries where cash is the norm.Leon said:
Plus you can lose cash, it's a hassle to change it, you put it in the washing machine by mistake, and so on and so forthAnabobazina said:
It really is. A total timer waster –– "oh I have to go to the bank machine, where is the bank machine? Dunno, oh it's x miles away"Leon said:
In Thailand it is still 80% cash at least. It is really quite annoying have to go back to paper wads (let alone meaningless coins). It made me realise that cash is definitely doomed. Cash is a total painAnabobazina said:
I haven't carried a wallet for nearly two years. Both my watch and phone make payments so what exactly is the point of carting around a load of pointless plastic and paper?Cookie said:
Really?Anabobazina said:Re: cash, someone said to me the other day, have you seen the 'new' 50pm coin?
I replied that I hadn't seen it, nor a 50p coin of any kind, old, middle-aged or new, for about a decade.
Up until 2020, I had a coin jar, which accumulated change through the year and was periodically taken to the bank - it used to get about £400 a year in change. Since the pandemic, it no longer builds up ,and I have to go out of my way from time to time to get change to keep it stocked. But I do still need coins, for reasons including, er:
- transactions with children (the tooth fairy doesn't bring plastic)
- tips in restaurants (I want my money to go to the specific waiter/waitress who provided the service)
- buskers
- parking (most car parks accept payment by app but that is a massive pain in the arse, particularly if I don't have my glasses with me)
- filling a pint glass with, then pissing in it and throwing it from on high at 15 year old girls who have a different favourite football team to me (joking - I'm not a Liverpool fan).
It's not a massive list. But cash isn't dead yet.
EDIT: All that said, upon meeting a colleague for the first time in 2 years recently, I was shocked to find he no longer even carries a wallet - just does everything on his phone. Does he not worry about running out of battery? Does he not worry about losing his phone? Does he not worry about having his phone but not his glasses? Apparently not. Not for me, Clive.
Absolutely ridiculous persisting with it nowadays.
Cash is doomed, the same way real gold and silver coins were doomed back in the day, and the value of notes and coins became notional
It's rare among my friends that anyone carries cash – as it's pointless in London.
Seems a weird thing to get so worked up about, but there we are, everyone's different. After all, Vetinari got worked up about mime artists and there are even those who don't understand the full horror of pineapple pizzas.2 -
In each case he gets 100pc. Cards means banks take a biteDriver said:
My barber doesn't take cards but does take bank transfers, which I've never quite got my head around.Selebian said:
Surprising how things have changed in a decade. I was in Stockholm for work in 2010, arrived on delayed flight (snow at UK airport) very late and grabbed a cab from the centre to where I was staying with colleague - original plan was colleague to pick me up, but it was late, his wife was out on shift and young children so he culdn't leave as he would have done earlier. Asked for them to stop at a cash machine on the way so I could pay, only to find they had a card machine on-board. Seemed futuristic at the time; I'd never encountered that in UK.kjh said:
In the last few years I have only used cash for a haircut (yep I don't know why they only take cash). I did a holiday in Iceland a few years ago and never used cash once; I didn't have any. Adnams will not take cash in their pubs.Leon said:
I've just spent about two weeks going around Cornwall - from little villages to bigger towns. I needed cash just once - in a cafe in a remote cove - but that was only because their wifi was down so the machine would not workAnabobazina said:
Everywhere is MOVING TOWARDS cashlessness and to claim otherwise is to deny the clear evidence in front of you. As much as it might not appeal to your prejudices, I leave London regularly – particularly for hiking and biking tours in high-country remote places.ydoethur said:
I use cash, because as has been patiently explained to you before, outside Extortion City there are still lots of places that don't take cards because it's much more expensive particularly for small transactions. I know that a study put forward by the main card clearing house said otherwise but it was patently not telling the truth (as in, had forged its figures).Anabobazina said:
Agree entirely. In fact @ManchesterKurt has given an excellent if saddening counterexample – others just seem to be based on: "I like cash, dunno why".Leon said:
I've gone months in London without using cash. I always do have some, but it can stay unspent in my pocket for entire seasonsAnabobazina said:
Indeed. And it's risky, carrying it around. I imagine 'petty' robberies (in the absence of a more appropriate term) are much more prevalent in those countries where cash is the norm.Leon said:
Plus you can lose cash, it's a hassle to change it, you put it in the washing machine by mistake, and so on and so forthAnabobazina said:
It really is. A total timer waster –– "oh I have to go to the bank machine, where is the bank machine? Dunno, oh it's x miles away"Leon said:
In Thailand it is still 80% cash at least. It is really quite annoying have to go back to paper wads (let alone meaningless coins). It made me realise that cash is definitely doomed. Cash is a total painAnabobazina said:
I haven't carried a wallet for nearly two years. Both my watch and phone make payments so what exactly is the point of carting around a load of pointless plastic and paper?Cookie said:
Really?Anabobazina said:Re: cash, someone said to me the other day, have you seen the 'new' 50pm coin?
I replied that I hadn't seen it, nor a 50p coin of any kind, old, middle-aged or new, for about a decade.
Up until 2020, I had a coin jar, which accumulated change through the year and was periodically taken to the bank - it used to get about £400 a year in change. Since the pandemic, it no longer builds up ,and I have to go out of my way from time to time to get change to keep it stocked. But I do still need coins, for reasons including, er:
- transactions with children (the tooth fairy doesn't bring plastic)
- tips in restaurants (I want my money to go to the specific waiter/waitress who provided the service)
- buskers
- parking (most car parks accept payment by app but that is a massive pain in the arse, particularly if I don't have my glasses with me)
- filling a pint glass with, then pissing in it and throwing it from on high at 15 year old girls who have a different favourite football team to me (joking - I'm not a Liverpool fan).
It's not a massive list. But cash isn't dead yet.
EDIT: All that said, upon meeting a colleague for the first time in 2 years recently, I was shocked to find he no longer even carries a wallet - just does everything on his phone. Does he not worry about running out of battery? Does he not worry about losing his phone? Does he not worry about having his phone but not his glasses? Apparently not. Not for me, Clive.
Absolutely ridiculous persisting with it nowadays.
Cash is doomed, the same way real gold and silver coins were doomed back in the day, and the value of notes and coins became notional
It's rare among my friends that anyone carries cash – as it's pointless in London.
It just seems mad to believe that in twenty years we will still be reaching in purses and counting out bits of paper and circles of metal. I do sympathise with sad stories like that of @ManchesterKurt below - that's awful - but I don't see that stopping inevitable progress
What might kill cash off eventually is the number of bank branches that are being closed, which will make it much more difficult to obtain and secure it. That's what's happening in say, North Wales. And that is not because of the merits or demerits of physical cash but because (1) branches being shut down, however well-used, reduces overheads dramatically and (b) banks can charge more in card transaction fees than in cash deposit fees.
London is not a typical example and should also never be used as such. It's much more crowded, much more expensive and much younger than the average town in the UK, including for things like food and transport (coins are still needed for many bus journeys round here). It's therefore less practical to use cash and the population tends to be more addicted to their phones in any case. That doesn't mean just because London is moving towards cashlessness everywhere else will as well.
I haven't used cash for anything, anywhere in the UK, and haven't needed to. The idea that rural areas are still cash-only holdouts is an utter fantasy.
It was noticeable and I remember it precisely because it seemed so odd - to everyone. Actual Cash!
This is going to be a problem going forward for the very few who have no alternative to cash.
Now it's a shock to be asked for cash in most places. Haircuts are also the one place I usually need cash - are they all dodging tax?0 -
I’d avoid using Revolut.Malmesbury said:
Yes - I've travelled around a couple of Scandinavian countries and never used cash.Fishing said:
Switch to Revolut or Monzo. They're pretty good about not charging for foreign currency transactions.NickPalmer said:
I used Kroner throughout my stay earlier this year - don't trust my bank not to charge exorbitant conversion fees. Didn't have any problem - you've found places refusing cash there?TimS said:
Cards in Scandinavian taxis, before the global era of Uber, were indeed a joy of business travel particularly as Kronor cash wasn’t any use elsewhere and tended to end up sitting around in drawers at home.
The rates that Revolut use are extremely good - their profit comes from a tiny spread.
They are the SNP of challenger banks.
https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/revolut-auditor-flags-concerns-about-576-mln-revenues-long-delayed-accounts-2023-03-01/0 -
And even fewer care about it.Big_G_NorthWales said:Most Britons do not care much, if at all, for the coronation
0 -
They later appeared in a Discord server frequented by fans of the Minecraft computer game. One user posted the documents during an argument with another member about the war in Ukraine stating: "Here, have some leaked documents"CarlottaVance said:Leaker identified
https://twitter.com/bellingcat/status/1646546839045394434?s=20
!!!1 -
My father charged guineas for private consultant work.Malmesbury said:a
Surely a gentleman would only take payment in land?MarqueeMark said:
I'm liking the idea of a hitman peer of the realm.Pagan2 said:
What is also not being said here is that a lot of cash transactions are not actually even recorded so they are unreported making cashless seem a bigger proportion. Examples of unrecorded cash transactions and that some cashless transactions have 1 or more cash transactions behind themmalcolmg said:
If you were living in poverty and had a very limited budget you wouldAnabobazina said:
I struggle with the veracity of such anecdotes. Do they pay their monthly bills by cash, at a post office? Their TV licence? Their mortgage? Their rent? How many people as a proportion of the UK population operate only in cash – and how exactly do they string a life together?Driver said:
Absolutely - I know a few people who like to use cash for budgeting because paying by card doesn't feel like spending money.ManchesterKurt said:
Because there will always be a proportion of the population that require cash as they are unable to deal with more modern ways of budgeting.Anabobazina said:
Why? Would you allow people to pay in postal orders or cheques or similarly obsolete payments?Selebian said:
If there's contactless (hell, even chip and pin) then I'm not too bothered about what else is available. Cash for those who prefer/need that should also be provided, I think.Pulpstar said:
Contactless is great. Phone apps for carparking just shouldn't be allowed. For one thing your debit card won't go out of battery for that 1% of time your phone is out of juice and you can't phone tap the contactless.Tres said:Council round here has moved to phone apps entirely for parking, even though they had machines available which could take contactless payments. Bonkers.
The frustrating thing is that any halfway decent parking app standard would be more convenient for most. Car reg(s) stored in app. Location services pinpoint the car park (or some NFC thing to swipe at worst). Choose your time and go, automatic payment. Extendable without returning to the car park. No queues. Many benefits. The current shit-show is not necessary.
My wife had a very severe stroke 5 years ago and has left her with tremendous mental issues, she cannot understand the difference between up or down, left or right, forwards or backwards. She cannot unlock doors, she cannot leave the house alone.
But she does have a level of financial independence as each month we take some money out of her bank and over the month she manages her spend as she can touch, feel and see her money.
My wife could not deal with a card (if nothing else her eye sight is so poor she cannot see the numbers on the keypads), take away cash and you take away about the only thing in her life that she has any level of independence over.
My wife may be a very extreme case, but there are probably far more people at that end of the spectrum than you would imagine.
Obviously, people who don't need to worry about having month left at the end of the money can merrily tap away.
Well he would have to pay for card machine , line rental , etc. Bank transfer is free.Driver said:
My barber doesn't take cards but does take bank transfers, which I've never quite got my head around.Selebian said:
Surprising how things have changed in a decade. I was in Stockholm for work in 2010, arrived on delayed flight (snow at UK airport) very late and grabbed a cab from the centre to where I was staying with colleague - original plan was colleague to pick me up, but it was late, his wife was out on shift and young children so he culdn't leave as he would have done earlier. Asked for them to stop at a cash machine on the way so I could pay, only to find they had a card machine on-board. Seemed futuristic at the time; I'd never encountered that in UK.kjh said:
In the last few years I have only used cash for a haircut (yep I don't know why they only take cash). I did a holiday in Iceland a few years ago and never used cash once; I didn't have any. Adnams will not take cash in their pubs.Leon said:
I've just spent about two weeks going around Cornwall - from little villages to bigger towns. I needed cash just once - in a cafe in a remote cove - but that was only because their wifi was down so the machine would not workAnabobazina said:
Everywhere is MOVING TOWARDS cashlessness and to claim otherwise is to deny the clear evidence in front of you. As much as it might not appeal to your prejudices, I leave London regularly – particularly for hiking and biking tours in high-country remote places.ydoethur said:
I use cash, because as has been patiently explained to you before, outside Extortion City there are still lots of places that don't take cards because it's much more expensive particularly for small transactions. I know that a study put forward by the main card clearing house said otherwise but it was patently not telling the truth (as in, had forged its figures).Anabobazina said:
Agree entirely. In fact @ManchesterKurt has given an excellent if saddening counterexample – others just seem to be based on: "I like cash, dunno why".Leon said:
I've gone months in London without using cash. I always do have some, but it can stay unspent in my pocket for entire seasonsAnabobazina said:
Indeed. And it's risky, carrying it around. I imagine 'petty' robberies (in the absence of a more appropriate term) are much more prevalent in those countries where cash is the norm.Leon said:
Plus you can lose cash, it's a hassle to change it, you put it in the washing machine by mistake, and so on and so forthAnabobazina said:
It really is. A total timer waster –– "oh I have to go to the bank machine, where is the bank machine? Dunno, oh it's x miles away"Leon said:
In Thailand it is still 80% cash at least. It is really quite annoying have to go back to paper wads (let alone meaningless coins). It made me realise that cash is definitely doomed. Cash is a total painAnabobazina said:
I haven't carried a wallet for nearly two years. Both my watch and phone make payments so what exactly is the point of carting around a load of pointless plastic and paper?Cookie said:
Really?Anabobazina said:Re: cash, someone said to me the other day, have you seen the 'new' 50pm coin?
I replied that I hadn't seen it, nor a 50p coin of any kind, old, middle-aged or new, for about a decade.
Up until 2020, I had a coin jar, which accumulated change through the year and was periodically taken to the bank - it used to get about £400 a year in change. Since the pandemic, it no longer builds up ,and I have to go out of my way from time to time to get change to keep it stocked. But I do still need coins, for reasons including, er:
- transactions with children (the tooth fairy doesn't bring plastic)
- tips in restaurants (I want my money to go to the specific waiter/waitress who provided the service)
- buskers
- parking (most car parks accept payment by app but that is a massive pain in the arse, particularly if I don't have my glasses with me)
- filling a pint glass with, then pissing in it and throwing it from on high at 15 year old girls who have a different favourite football team to me (joking - I'm not a Liverpool fan).
It's not a massive list. But cash isn't dead yet.
EDIT: All that said, upon meeting a colleague for the first time in 2 years recently, I was shocked to find he no longer even carries a wallet - just does everything on his phone. Does he not worry about running out of battery? Does he not worry about losing his phone? Does he not worry about having his phone but not his glasses? Apparently not. Not for me, Clive.
Absolutely ridiculous persisting with it nowadays.
Cash is doomed, the same way real gold and silver coins were doomed back in the day, and the value of notes and coins became notional
It's rare among my friends that anyone carries cash – as it's pointless in London.
It just seems mad to believe that in twenty years we will still be reaching in purses and counting out bits of paper and circles of metal. I do sympathise with sad stories like that of @ManchesterKurt below - that's awful - but I don't see that stopping inevitable progress
What might kill cash off eventually is the number of bank branches that are being closed, which will make it much more difficult to obtain and secure it. That's what's happening in say, North Wales. And that is not because of the merits or demerits of physical cash but because (1) branches being shut down, however well-used, reduces overheads dramatically and (b) banks can charge more in card transaction fees than in cash deposit fees.
London is not a typical example and should also never be used as such. It's much more crowded, much more expensive and much younger than the average town in the UK, including for things like food and transport (coins are still needed for many bus journeys round here). It's therefore less practical to use cash and the population tends to be more addicted to their phones in any case. That doesn't mean just because London is moving towards cashlessness everywhere else will as well.
I haven't used cash for anything, anywhere in the UK, and haven't needed to. The idea that rural areas are still cash-only holdouts is an utter fantasy.
It was noticeable and I remember it precisely because it seemed so odd - to everyone. Actual Cash!
This is going to be a problem going forward for the very few who have no alternative to cash.
Now it's a shock to be asked for cash in most places. Haircuts are also the one place I usually need cash - are they all dodging tax?
Lending a friend a tenner.
Clubbing together to pay for a meal 5 people pay 20quid cash the 6th puts the meal on his card for 80 quid (often used by our games night crew when we have a get together and order chinese, shows as 1 card transaction but is actually 1 card and 5 cash)
Buying something out of the classified ads, a car, a sofa
Buying illicit services such as drugs, prostitution, hitmen, peers of the realm etc
Paying cash in hand, for example if I got my lawn cut and chucked the guy a tenner cash
Cash only businesses that aren't paying tax
Giving cash to a charity via donation box
Giving cash to a beggar or busker
Giving a tip in cash to a waiter
Yes I suspect there are a lot of cash transactions missing from the data
Only paid in cash.
Guineas.0 -
I have had a week off and not used cash down on the IOW, and haven't used in at least a month in Leicester either. Not even for bus fare.ydoethur said:
He's actually very reasonable on most subjects. But he gets very agitated about cash for some reason. A burning and irrational hatred of it extrapolated from its lower than average use in London to the rest of the country by using forged surveys and waving away all actual evidence that contradicts his views.Driver said:
"Absolutely ridiculous persisting with it nowadays"?Anabobazina said:
What loony evangelism?Pagan2 said:
I don't get his loony evangelism approach.....no one is telling him he has to use cash ever if he doesn't want to. Why does it bother him so much that some of us are going cashless....nah pass on that thanks for the offerrcs1000 said:
That's simply not true: the homeless need cash to buy their Tennant's lager.Anabobazina said:
Indeed. And it's risky, carrying it around. I imagine 'petty' robberies (in the absence of a more appropriate term) are much more prevalent in those countries where cash is the norm.Leon said:
Plus you can lose cash, it's a hassle to change it, you put it in the washing machine by mistake, and so on and so forthAnabobazina said:
It really is. A total timer waster –– "oh I have to go to the bank machine, where is the bank machine? Dunno, oh it's x miles away"Leon said:
In Thailand it is still 80% cash at least. It is really quite annoying have to go back to paper wads (let alone meaningless coins). It made me realise that cash is definitely doomed. Cash is a total painAnabobazina said:
I haven't carried a wallet for nearly two years. Both my watch and phone make payments so what exactly is the point of carting around a load of pointless plastic and paper?Cookie said:
Really?Anabobazina said:Re: cash, someone said to me the other day, have you seen the 'new' 50pm coin?
I replied that I hadn't seen it, nor a 50p coin of any kind, old, middle-aged or new, for about a decade.
Up until 2020, I had a coin jar, which accumulated change through the year and was periodically taken to the bank - it used to get about £400 a year in change. Since the pandemic, it no longer builds up ,and I have to go out of my way from time to time to get change to keep it stocked. But I do still need coins, for reasons including, er:
- transactions with children (the tooth fairy doesn't bring plastic)
- tips in restaurants (I want my money to go to the specific waiter/waitress who provided the service)
- buskers
- parking (most car parks accept payment by app but that is a massive pain in the arse, particularly if I don't have my glasses with me)
- filling a pint glass with, then pissing in it and throwing it from on high at 15 year old girls who have a different favourite football team to me (joking - I'm not a Liverpool fan).
It's not a massive list. But cash isn't dead yet.
EDIT: All that said, upon meeting a colleague for the first time in 2 years recently, I was shocked to find he no longer even carries a wallet - just does everything on his phone. Does he not worry about running out of battery? Does he not worry about losing his phone? Does he not worry about having his phone but not his glasses? Apparently not. Not for me, Clive.
Absolutely ridiculous persisting with it nowadays.
Cash is doomed, the same way real gold and silver coins were doomed back in the day, and the value of notes and coins became notional
It's rare among my friends that anyone carries cash – as it's pointless in London.
Seems a weird thing to get so worked up about, but there we are, everyone's different. After all, Vetinari got worked up about mime artists and there are even those who don't understand the full horror of pineapple pizzas.1 -
Nationwide dittoFishing said:
Switch to Revolut or Monzo. They're pretty good about not charging for foreign currency transactions.NickPalmer said:
I used Kroner throughout my stay earlier this year - don't trust my bank not to charge exorbitant conversion fees. Didn't have any problem - you've found places refusing cash there?TimS said:
Cards in Scandinavian taxis, before the global era of Uber, were indeed a joy of business travel particularly as Kronor cash wasn’t any use elsewhere and tended to end up sitting around in drawers at home.0 -
At least then there's no danger of you two ever meeting over dinner.Pagan2 said:
I doubt I would find anywhere I would want to give my custom too that was cashless in any case. They seem to be the sort of place that needs to get over themselves.Anabobazina said:
What loony evangelism? I have said that I don't advocate banning it, simply that it is largely pointless, and actively counterproductive in many cases (see @Leon's points above). You insist on cash if you wish, but you'd struggle around here where many businesses are cashless, and it is rational for them to be so.Pagan2 said:
I don't get his loony evangelism approach.....no one is telling him he has to use cash ever if he doesn't want to. Why does it bother him so much that some of us are going cashless....nah pass on that thanks for the offerrcs1000 said:
That's simply not true: the homeless need cash to buy their Tennant's lager.Anabobazina said:
Indeed. And it's risky, carrying it around. I imagine 'petty' robberies (in the absence of a more appropriate term) are much more prevalent in those countries where cash is the norm.Leon said:
Plus you can lose cash, it's a hassle to change it, you put it in the washing machine by mistake, and so on and so forthAnabobazina said:
It really is. A total timer waster –– "oh I have to go to the bank machine, where is the bank machine? Dunno, oh it's x miles away"Leon said:
In Thailand it is still 80% cash at least. It is really quite annoying have to go back to paper wads (let alone meaningless coins). It made me realise that cash is definitely doomed. Cash is a total painAnabobazina said:
I haven't carried a wallet for nearly two years. Both my watch and phone make payments so what exactly is the point of carting around a load of pointless plastic and paper?Cookie said:
Really?Anabobazina said:Re: cash, someone said to me the other day, have you seen the 'new' 50pm coin?
I replied that I hadn't seen it, nor a 50p coin of any kind, old, middle-aged or new, for about a decade.
Up until 2020, I had a coin jar, which accumulated change through the year and was periodically taken to the bank - it used to get about £400 a year in change. Since the pandemic, it no longer builds up ,and I have to go out of my way from time to time to get change to keep it stocked. But I do still need coins, for reasons including, er:
- transactions with children (the tooth fairy doesn't bring plastic)
- tips in restaurants (I want my money to go to the specific waiter/waitress who provided the service)
- buskers
- parking (most car parks accept payment by app but that is a massive pain in the arse, particularly if I don't have my glasses with me)
- filling a pint glass with, then pissing in it and throwing it from on high at 15 year old girls who have a different favourite football team to me (joking - I'm not a Liverpool fan).
It's not a massive list. But cash isn't dead yet.
EDIT: All that said, upon meeting a colleague for the first time in 2 years recently, I was shocked to find he no longer even carries a wallet - just does everything on his phone. Does he not worry about running out of battery? Does he not worry about losing his phone? Does he not worry about having his phone but not his glasses? Apparently not. Not for me, Clive.
Absolutely ridiculous persisting with it nowadays.
Cash is doomed, the same way real gold and silver coins were doomed back in the day, and the value of notes and coins became notional
It's rare among my friends that anyone carries cash – as it's pointless in London.
Perhaps is is you who is the loony evangelist – for cash. Have you ever considered that?1 -
Business bank accounts tend to charge for bank transfers received above a certain limit, AFAIK?squareroot2 said:
In each case he gets 100pc. Cards means banks take a biteDriver said:
My barber doesn't take cards but does take bank transfers, which I've never quite got my head around.Selebian said:
Surprising how things have changed in a decade. I was in Stockholm for work in 2010, arrived on delayed flight (snow at UK airport) very late and grabbed a cab from the centre to where I was staying with colleague - original plan was colleague to pick me up, but it was late, his wife was out on shift and young children so he culdn't leave as he would have done earlier. Asked for them to stop at a cash machine on the way so I could pay, only to find they had a card machine on-board. Seemed futuristic at the time; I'd never encountered that in UK.kjh said:
In the last few years I have only used cash for a haircut (yep I don't know why they only take cash). I did a holiday in Iceland a few years ago and never used cash once; I didn't have any. Adnams will not take cash in their pubs.Leon said:
I've just spent about two weeks going around Cornwall - from little villages to bigger towns. I needed cash just once - in a cafe in a remote cove - but that was only because their wifi was down so the machine would not workAnabobazina said:
Everywhere is MOVING TOWARDS cashlessness and to claim otherwise is to deny the clear evidence in front of you. As much as it might not appeal to your prejudices, I leave London regularly – particularly for hiking and biking tours in high-country remote places.ydoethur said:
I use cash, because as has been patiently explained to you before, outside Extortion City there are still lots of places that don't take cards because it's much more expensive particularly for small transactions. I know that a study put forward by the main card clearing house said otherwise but it was patently not telling the truth (as in, had forged its figures).Anabobazina said:
Agree entirely. In fact @ManchesterKurt has given an excellent if saddening counterexample – others just seem to be based on: "I like cash, dunno why".Leon said:
I've gone months in London without using cash. I always do have some, but it can stay unspent in my pocket for entire seasonsAnabobazina said:
Indeed. And it's risky, carrying it around. I imagine 'petty' robberies (in the absence of a more appropriate term) are much more prevalent in those countries where cash is the norm.Leon said:
Plus you can lose cash, it's a hassle to change it, you put it in the washing machine by mistake, and so on and so forthAnabobazina said:
It really is. A total timer waster –– "oh I have to go to the bank machine, where is the bank machine? Dunno, oh it's x miles away"Leon said:
In Thailand it is still 80% cash at least. It is really quite annoying have to go back to paper wads (let alone meaningless coins). It made me realise that cash is definitely doomed. Cash is a total painAnabobazina said:
I haven't carried a wallet for nearly two years. Both my watch and phone make payments so what exactly is the point of carting around a load of pointless plastic and paper?Cookie said:
Really?Anabobazina said:Re: cash, someone said to me the other day, have you seen the 'new' 50pm coin?
I replied that I hadn't seen it, nor a 50p coin of any kind, old, middle-aged or new, for about a decade.
Up until 2020, I had a coin jar, which accumulated change through the year and was periodically taken to the bank - it used to get about £400 a year in change. Since the pandemic, it no longer builds up ,and I have to go out of my way from time to time to get change to keep it stocked. But I do still need coins, for reasons including, er:
- transactions with children (the tooth fairy doesn't bring plastic)
- tips in restaurants (I want my money to go to the specific waiter/waitress who provided the service)
- buskers
- parking (most car parks accept payment by app but that is a massive pain in the arse, particularly if I don't have my glasses with me)
- filling a pint glass with, then pissing in it and throwing it from on high at 15 year old girls who have a different favourite football team to me (joking - I'm not a Liverpool fan).
It's not a massive list. But cash isn't dead yet.
EDIT: All that said, upon meeting a colleague for the first time in 2 years recently, I was shocked to find he no longer even carries a wallet - just does everything on his phone. Does he not worry about running out of battery? Does he not worry about losing his phone? Does he not worry about having his phone but not his glasses? Apparently not. Not for me, Clive.
Absolutely ridiculous persisting with it nowadays.
Cash is doomed, the same way real gold and silver coins were doomed back in the day, and the value of notes and coins became notional
It's rare among my friends that anyone carries cash – as it's pointless in London.
It just seems mad to believe that in twenty years we will still be reaching in purses and counting out bits of paper and circles of metal. I do sympathise with sad stories like that of @ManchesterKurt below - that's awful - but I don't see that stopping inevitable progress
What might kill cash off eventually is the number of bank branches that are being closed, which will make it much more difficult to obtain and secure it. That's what's happening in say, North Wales. And that is not because of the merits or demerits of physical cash but because (1) branches being shut down, however well-used, reduces overheads dramatically and (b) banks can charge more in card transaction fees than in cash deposit fees.
London is not a typical example and should also never be used as such. It's much more crowded, much more expensive and much younger than the average town in the UK, including for things like food and transport (coins are still needed for many bus journeys round here). It's therefore less practical to use cash and the population tends to be more addicted to their phones in any case. That doesn't mean just because London is moving towards cashlessness everywhere else will as well.
I haven't used cash for anything, anywhere in the UK, and haven't needed to. The idea that rural areas are still cash-only holdouts is an utter fantasy.
It was noticeable and I remember it precisely because it seemed so odd - to everyone. Actual Cash!
This is going to be a problem going forward for the very few who have no alternative to cash.
Now it's a shock to be asked for cash in most places. Haircuts are also the one place I usually need cash - are they all dodging tax?0 -
I did a "click'n'collect" order a while back and when I went in to pick up my stuff they'd had to substitute something and owed me two quid. So they gave me two shiny pound coins. I honestly stood for a second or two staring at them in wonder - items from the before times.ydoethur said:
It's around 18-21% only use cash (the figures cannot be exact for obvious reasons). But 83% still use it as a regular part of their lives.Anabobazina said:
Agreed – and I'm not calling for an immediate ban. Simply that, as you say, it's going to dwindle so low that we'll have to make a realistic decision at some point fairly soon about phasing it out.NickPalmer said:
Sympathies, Kurt, that sounds very rough for her (and probably for you too).ManchesterKurt said:
Because there will always be a proportion of the population that require cash as they are unable to deal with more modern ways of budgeting.Anabobazina said:
Why? Would you allow people to pay in postal orders or cheques or similarly obsolete payments?Selebian said:
If there's contactless (hell, even chip and pin) then I'm not too bothered about what else is available. Cash for those who prefer/need that should also be provided, I think.Pulpstar said:
Contactless is great. Phone apps for carparking just shouldn't be allowed. For one thing your debit card won't go out of battery for that 1% of time your phone is out of juice and you can't phone tap the contactless.Tres said:Council round here has moved to phone apps entirely for parking, even though they had machines available which could take contactless payments. Bonkers.
The frustrating thing is that any halfway decent parking app standard would be more convenient for most. Car reg(s) stored in app. Location services pinpoint the car park (or some NFC thing to swipe at worst). Choose your time and go, automatic payment. Extendable without returning to the car park. No queues. Many benefits. The current shit-show is not necessary.
My wife had a very severe stroke 5 years ago and has left her with tremendous mental issues, she cannot understand the difference between up or down, left or right, forwards or backwards. She cannot unlock doors, she cannot leave the house alone.
But she does have a level of financial independence as each month we take some money out of her bank and over the month she manages her spend as she can touch, feel and see her money.
My wife could not deal with a card (if nothing else her eye sight is so poor she cannot see the numbers on the keypads), take away cash and you take away about the only thing in her life that she has any level of independence over.
My wife may be a very extreme case, but there are probably far more people at that end of the spectrum than you would imagine.
This is one of those areas where people in one cultural framework imagine that everyone else is. I know people like Anabob who use phones for everything, and people who use cash for everything. Most of my circle use contactless cards most of the time, and cash now and then. But in terms of avoiding social exclusion, it's important to maintain means of dealing with the world which are not found difficult by a large group of society, and elderly folk who can't handle smart watches (or even laptops) are still very common. When the number diminishes below 1%, it'll be reasonable to phase out cash, but for now it still makes sense to make it a requirement for any public service.
Presumably the trend to electronic transactions has reduced certain types of crime, or at least made them harder - tradesmen wanting to be paid in cash now look fishy rather than normal, though I suspect it's still quite common.
I'd been keen to know what proportion of the population only use cash... I suspect it's very low indeed currently – albeit not as low as 1%.
https://www.thersa.org/blog/2022/04/card-or-cash-patterns-of-cash-use-in-the-uk
It was suggested above that notes will go last. I would expect coins to survive them actually for the simple reason they are more useful in the smaller transactions that will stubbornly cling on.
They're still sat on the hall sideboard months later.0 -
Another CalMac ferry breaks.
Good news for Tories/Lib Dems if they can associate the SNP with letting the Highlands/islands down. But I still think it will only have a marginal impact on overall results - it's all about the central belt.
0 -
They do.Driver said:
Business bank accounts tend to charge for bank transfers received above a certain limit, AFAIK?squareroot2 said:
In each case he gets 100pc. Cards means banks take a biteDriver said:
My barber doesn't take cards but does take bank transfers, which I've never quite got my head around.Selebian said:
Surprising how things have changed in a decade. I was in Stockholm for work in 2010, arrived on delayed flight (snow at UK airport) very late and grabbed a cab from the centre to where I was staying with colleague - original plan was colleague to pick me up, but it was late, his wife was out on shift and young children so he culdn't leave as he would have done earlier. Asked for them to stop at a cash machine on the way so I could pay, only to find they had a card machine on-board. Seemed futuristic at the time; I'd never encountered that in UK.kjh said:
In the last few years I have only used cash for a haircut (yep I don't know why they only take cash). I did a holiday in Iceland a few years ago and never used cash once; I didn't have any. Adnams will not take cash in their pubs.Leon said:
I've just spent about two weeks going around Cornwall - from little villages to bigger towns. I needed cash just once - in a cafe in a remote cove - but that was only because their wifi was down so the machine would not workAnabobazina said:
Everywhere is MOVING TOWARDS cashlessness and to claim otherwise is to deny the clear evidence in front of you. As much as it might not appeal to your prejudices, I leave London regularly – particularly for hiking and biking tours in high-country remote places.ydoethur said:
I use cash, because as has been patiently explained to you before, outside Extortion City there are still lots of places that don't take cards because it's much more expensive particularly for small transactions. I know that a study put forward by the main card clearing house said otherwise but it was patently not telling the truth (as in, had forged its figures).Anabobazina said:
Agree entirely. In fact @ManchesterKurt has given an excellent if saddening counterexample – others just seem to be based on: "I like cash, dunno why".Leon said:
I've gone months in London without using cash. I always do have some, but it can stay unspent in my pocket for entire seasonsAnabobazina said:
Indeed. And it's risky, carrying it around. I imagine 'petty' robberies (in the absence of a more appropriate term) are much more prevalent in those countries where cash is the norm.Leon said:
Plus you can lose cash, it's a hassle to change it, you put it in the washing machine by mistake, and so on and so forthAnabobazina said:
It really is. A total timer waster –– "oh I have to go to the bank machine, where is the bank machine? Dunno, oh it's x miles away"Leon said:
In Thailand it is still 80% cash at least. It is really quite annoying have to go back to paper wads (let alone meaningless coins). It made me realise that cash is definitely doomed. Cash is a total painAnabobazina said:
I haven't carried a wallet for nearly two years. Both my watch and phone make payments so what exactly is the point of carting around a load of pointless plastic and paper?Cookie said:
Really?Anabobazina said:Re: cash, someone said to me the other day, have you seen the 'new' 50pm coin?
I replied that I hadn't seen it, nor a 50p coin of any kind, old, middle-aged or new, for about a decade.
Up until 2020, I had a coin jar, which accumulated change through the year and was periodically taken to the bank - it used to get about £400 a year in change. Since the pandemic, it no longer builds up ,and I have to go out of my way from time to time to get change to keep it stocked. But I do still need coins, for reasons including, er:
- transactions with children (the tooth fairy doesn't bring plastic)
- tips in restaurants (I want my money to go to the specific waiter/waitress who provided the service)
- buskers
- parking (most car parks accept payment by app but that is a massive pain in the arse, particularly if I don't have my glasses with me)
- filling a pint glass with, then pissing in it and throwing it from on high at 15 year old girls who have a different favourite football team to me (joking - I'm not a Liverpool fan).
It's not a massive list. But cash isn't dead yet.
EDIT: All that said, upon meeting a colleague for the first time in 2 years recently, I was shocked to find he no longer even carries a wallet - just does everything on his phone. Does he not worry about running out of battery? Does he not worry about losing his phone? Does he not worry about having his phone but not his glasses? Apparently not. Not for me, Clive.
Absolutely ridiculous persisting with it nowadays.
Cash is doomed, the same way real gold and silver coins were doomed back in the day, and the value of notes and coins became notional
It's rare among my friends that anyone carries cash – as it's pointless in London.
It just seems mad to believe that in twenty years we will still be reaching in purses and counting out bits of paper and circles of metal. I do sympathise with sad stories like that of @ManchesterKurt below - that's awful - but I don't see that stopping inevitable progress
What might kill cash off eventually is the number of bank branches that are being closed, which will make it much more difficult to obtain and secure it. That's what's happening in say, North Wales. And that is not because of the merits or demerits of physical cash but because (1) branches being shut down, however well-used, reduces overheads dramatically and (b) banks can charge more in card transaction fees than in cash deposit fees.
London is not a typical example and should also never be used as such. It's much more crowded, much more expensive and much younger than the average town in the UK, including for things like food and transport (coins are still needed for many bus journeys round here). It's therefore less practical to use cash and the population tends to be more addicted to their phones in any case. That doesn't mean just because London is moving towards cashlessness everywhere else will as well.
I haven't used cash for anything, anywhere in the UK, and haven't needed to. The idea that rural areas are still cash-only holdouts is an utter fantasy.
It was noticeable and I remember it precisely because it seemed so odd - to everyone. Actual Cash!
This is going to be a problem going forward for the very few who have no alternative to cash.
Now it's a shock to be asked for cash in most places. Haircuts are also the one place I usually need cash - are they all dodging tax?0 -
Well possibly not or possibly yes I got this for christmasNigelb said:
At least then there's no danger of you two ever meeting over dinner.Pagan2 said:
I doubt I would find anywhere I would want to give my custom too that was cashless in any case. They seem to be the sort of place that needs to get over themselves.Anabobazina said:
What loony evangelism? I have said that I don't advocate banning it, simply that it is largely pointless, and actively counterproductive in many cases (see @Leon's points above). You insist on cash if you wish, but you'd struggle around here where many businesses are cashless, and it is rational for them to be so.Pagan2 said:
I don't get his loony evangelism approach.....no one is telling him he has to use cash ever if he doesn't want to. Why does it bother him so much that some of us are going cashless....nah pass on that thanks for the offerrcs1000 said:
That's simply not true: the homeless need cash to buy their Tennant's lager.Anabobazina said:
Indeed. And it's risky, carrying it around. I imagine 'petty' robberies (in the absence of a more appropriate term) are much more prevalent in those countries where cash is the norm.Leon said:
Plus you can lose cash, it's a hassle to change it, you put it in the washing machine by mistake, and so on and so forthAnabobazina said:
It really is. A total timer waster –– "oh I have to go to the bank machine, where is the bank machine? Dunno, oh it's x miles away"Leon said:
In Thailand it is still 80% cash at least. It is really quite annoying have to go back to paper wads (let alone meaningless coins). It made me realise that cash is definitely doomed. Cash is a total painAnabobazina said:
I haven't carried a wallet for nearly two years. Both my watch and phone make payments so what exactly is the point of carting around a load of pointless plastic and paper?Cookie said:
Really?Anabobazina said:Re: cash, someone said to me the other day, have you seen the 'new' 50pm coin?
I replied that I hadn't seen it, nor a 50p coin of any kind, old, middle-aged or new, for about a decade.
Up until 2020, I had a coin jar, which accumulated change through the year and was periodically taken to the bank - it used to get about £400 a year in change. Since the pandemic, it no longer builds up ,and I have to go out of my way from time to time to get change to keep it stocked. But I do still need coins, for reasons including, er:
- transactions with children (the tooth fairy doesn't bring plastic)
- tips in restaurants (I want my money to go to the specific waiter/waitress who provided the service)
- buskers
- parking (most car parks accept payment by app but that is a massive pain in the arse, particularly if I don't have my glasses with me)
- filling a pint glass with, then pissing in it and throwing it from on high at 15 year old girls who have a different favourite football team to me (joking - I'm not a Liverpool fan).
It's not a massive list. But cash isn't dead yet.
EDIT: All that said, upon meeting a colleague for the first time in 2 years recently, I was shocked to find he no longer even carries a wallet - just does everything on his phone. Does he not worry about running out of battery? Does he not worry about losing his phone? Does he not worry about having his phone but not his glasses? Apparently not. Not for me, Clive.
Absolutely ridiculous persisting with it nowadays.
Cash is doomed, the same way real gold and silver coins were doomed back in the day, and the value of notes and coins became notional
It's rare among my friends that anyone carries cash – as it's pointless in London.
Perhaps is is you who is the loony evangelist – for cash. Have you ever considered that?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Cannibal-Cookbook-Human-recipes-around/dp/B08SGR2W6M/ref=sr_1_1?crid=XJG31I1NMHG8&keywords=cannibal+cookbook&qid=1681360254&sprefix=cannibal+cook,aps,83&sr=8-10 -
Or they blag a free dinner off the Guardian? No need to worry about how, never mind by whom, the bill is paid.Nigelb said:
At least then there's no danger of you two ever meeting over dinner.Pagan2 said:
I doubt I would find anywhere I would want to give my custom too that was cashless in any case. They seem to be the sort of place that needs to get over themselves.Anabobazina said:
What loony evangelism? I have said that I don't advocate banning it, simply that it is largely pointless, and actively counterproductive in many cases (see @Leon's points above). You insist on cash if you wish, but you'd struggle around here where many businesses are cashless, and it is rational for them to be so.Pagan2 said:
I don't get his loony evangelism approach.....no one is telling him he has to use cash ever if he doesn't want to. Why does it bother him so much that some of us are going cashless....nah pass on that thanks for the offerrcs1000 said:
That's simply not true: the homeless need cash to buy their Tennant's lager.Anabobazina said:
Indeed. And it's risky, carrying it around. I imagine 'petty' robberies (in the absence of a more appropriate term) are much more prevalent in those countries where cash is the norm.Leon said:
Plus you can lose cash, it's a hassle to change it, you put it in the washing machine by mistake, and so on and so forthAnabobazina said:
It really is. A total timer waster –– "oh I have to go to the bank machine, where is the bank machine? Dunno, oh it's x miles away"Leon said:
In Thailand it is still 80% cash at least. It is really quite annoying have to go back to paper wads (let alone meaningless coins). It made me realise that cash is definitely doomed. Cash is a total painAnabobazina said:
I haven't carried a wallet for nearly two years. Both my watch and phone make payments so what exactly is the point of carting around a load of pointless plastic and paper?Cookie said:
Really?Anabobazina said:Re: cash, someone said to me the other day, have you seen the 'new' 50pm coin?
I replied that I hadn't seen it, nor a 50p coin of any kind, old, middle-aged or new, for about a decade.
Up until 2020, I had a coin jar, which accumulated change through the year and was periodically taken to the bank - it used to get about £400 a year in change. Since the pandemic, it no longer builds up ,and I have to go out of my way from time to time to get change to keep it stocked. But I do still need coins, for reasons including, er:
- transactions with children (the tooth fairy doesn't bring plastic)
- tips in restaurants (I want my money to go to the specific waiter/waitress who provided the service)
- buskers
- parking (most car parks accept payment by app but that is a massive pain in the arse, particularly if I don't have my glasses with me)
- filling a pint glass with, then pissing in it and throwing it from on high at 15 year old girls who have a different favourite football team to me (joking - I'm not a Liverpool fan).
It's not a massive list. But cash isn't dead yet.
EDIT: All that said, upon meeting a colleague for the first time in 2 years recently, I was shocked to find he no longer even carries a wallet - just does everything on his phone. Does he not worry about running out of battery? Does he not worry about losing his phone? Does he not worry about having his phone but not his glasses? Apparently not. Not for me, Clive.
Absolutely ridiculous persisting with it nowadays.
Cash is doomed, the same way real gold and silver coins were doomed back in the day, and the value of notes and coins became notional
It's rare among my friends that anyone carries cash – as it's pointless in London.
Perhaps is is you who is the loony evangelist – for cash. Have you ever considered that?0 -
A daft response. Most have given up cash because few if any of their customers ever pay with it, so there is no point retaining it.Pagan2 said:
I doubt I would find anywhere I would want to give my custom too that was cashless in any case. They seem to be the sort of place that needs to get over themselves.Anabobazina said:
What loony evangelism? I have said that I don't advocate banning it, simply that it is largely pointless, and actively counterproductive in many cases (see @Leon's points above). You insist on cash if you wish, but you'd struggle around here where many businesses are cashless, and it is rational for them to be so.Pagan2 said:
I don't get his loony evangelism approach.....no one is telling him he has to use cash ever if he doesn't want to. Why does it bother him so much that some of us are going cashless....nah pass on that thanks for the offerrcs1000 said:
That's simply not true: the homeless need cash to buy their Tennant's lager.Anabobazina said:
Indeed. And it's risky, carrying it around. I imagine 'petty' robberies (in the absence of a more appropriate term) are much more prevalent in those countries where cash is the norm.Leon said:
Plus you can lose cash, it's a hassle to change it, you put it in the washing machine by mistake, and so on and so forthAnabobazina said:
It really is. A total timer waster –– "oh I have to go to the bank machine, where is the bank machine? Dunno, oh it's x miles away"Leon said:
In Thailand it is still 80% cash at least. It is really quite annoying have to go back to paper wads (let alone meaningless coins). It made me realise that cash is definitely doomed. Cash is a total painAnabobazina said:
I haven't carried a wallet for nearly two years. Both my watch and phone make payments so what exactly is the point of carting around a load of pointless plastic and paper?Cookie said:
Really?Anabobazina said:Re: cash, someone said to me the other day, have you seen the 'new' 50pm coin?
I replied that I hadn't seen it, nor a 50p coin of any kind, old, middle-aged or new, for about a decade.
Up until 2020, I had a coin jar, which accumulated change through the year and was periodically taken to the bank - it used to get about £400 a year in change. Since the pandemic, it no longer builds up ,and I have to go out of my way from time to time to get change to keep it stocked. But I do still need coins, for reasons including, er:
- transactions with children (the tooth fairy doesn't bring plastic)
- tips in restaurants (I want my money to go to the specific waiter/waitress who provided the service)
- buskers
- parking (most car parks accept payment by app but that is a massive pain in the arse, particularly if I don't have my glasses with me)
- filling a pint glass with, then pissing in it and throwing it from on high at 15 year old girls who have a different favourite football team to me (joking - I'm not a Liverpool fan).
It's not a massive list. But cash isn't dead yet.
EDIT: All that said, upon meeting a colleague for the first time in 2 years recently, I was shocked to find he no longer even carries a wallet - just does everything on his phone. Does he not worry about running out of battery? Does he not worry about losing his phone? Does he not worry about having his phone but not his glasses? Apparently not. Not for me, Clive.
Absolutely ridiculous persisting with it nowadays.
Cash is doomed, the same way real gold and silver coins were doomed back in the day, and the value of notes and coins became notional
It's rare among my friends that anyone carries cash – as it's pointless in London.
Perhaps is is you who is the loony evangelist – for cash. Have you ever considered that?0 -
See few card only shops here but then I am not a hipster londonite that doesn't give a shit about people that can't do non cash payments.Anabobazina said:
A daft response. Most have given up cash because few if any of their customers ever pay with it, so there is no point retaining it.Pagan2 said:
I doubt I would find anywhere I would want to give my custom too that was cashless in any case. They seem to be the sort of place that needs to get over themselves.Anabobazina said:
What loony evangelism? I have said that I don't advocate banning it, simply that it is largely pointless, and actively counterproductive in many cases (see @Leon's points above). You insist on cash if you wish, but you'd struggle around here where many businesses are cashless, and it is rational for them to be so.Pagan2 said:
I don't get his loony evangelism approach.....no one is telling him he has to use cash ever if he doesn't want to. Why does it bother him so much that some of us are going cashless....nah pass on that thanks for the offerrcs1000 said:
That's simply not true: the homeless need cash to buy their Tennant's lager.Anabobazina said:
Indeed. And it's risky, carrying it around. I imagine 'petty' robberies (in the absence of a more appropriate term) are much more prevalent in those countries where cash is the norm.Leon said:
Plus you can lose cash, it's a hassle to change it, you put it in the washing machine by mistake, and so on and so forthAnabobazina said:
It really is. A total timer waster –– "oh I have to go to the bank machine, where is the bank machine? Dunno, oh it's x miles away"Leon said:
In Thailand it is still 80% cash at least. It is really quite annoying have to go back to paper wads (let alone meaningless coins). It made me realise that cash is definitely doomed. Cash is a total painAnabobazina said:
I haven't carried a wallet for nearly two years. Both my watch and phone make payments so what exactly is the point of carting around a load of pointless plastic and paper?Cookie said:
Really?Anabobazina said:Re: cash, someone said to me the other day, have you seen the 'new' 50pm coin?
I replied that I hadn't seen it, nor a 50p coin of any kind, old, middle-aged or new, for about a decade.
Up until 2020, I had a coin jar, which accumulated change through the year and was periodically taken to the bank - it used to get about £400 a year in change. Since the pandemic, it no longer builds up ,and I have to go out of my way from time to time to get change to keep it stocked. But I do still need coins, for reasons including, er:
- transactions with children (the tooth fairy doesn't bring plastic)
- tips in restaurants (I want my money to go to the specific waiter/waitress who provided the service)
- buskers
- parking (most car parks accept payment by app but that is a massive pain in the arse, particularly if I don't have my glasses with me)
- filling a pint glass with, then pissing in it and throwing it from on high at 15 year old girls who have a different favourite football team to me (joking - I'm not a Liverpool fan).
It's not a massive list. But cash isn't dead yet.
EDIT: All that said, upon meeting a colleague for the first time in 2 years recently, I was shocked to find he no longer even carries a wallet - just does everything on his phone. Does he not worry about running out of battery? Does he not worry about losing his phone? Does he not worry about having his phone but not his glasses? Apparently not. Not for me, Clive.
Absolutely ridiculous persisting with it nowadays.
Cash is doomed, the same way real gold and silver coins were doomed back in the day, and the value of notes and coins became notional
It's rare among my friends that anyone carries cash – as it's pointless in London.
Perhaps is is you who is the loony evangelist – for cash. Have you ever considered that?0 -
I know Wetherspoons in London still take cash.Anabobazina said:
A daft response. Most have given up cash because few if any of their customers ever pay with it, so there is no point retaining it.Pagan2 said:
I doubt I would find anywhere I would want to give my custom too that was cashless in any case. They seem to be the sort of place that needs to get over themselves.Anabobazina said:
What loony evangelism? I have said that I don't advocate banning it, simply that it is largely pointless, and actively counterproductive in many cases (see @Leon's points above). You insist on cash if you wish, but you'd struggle around here where many businesses are cashless, and it is rational for them to be so.Pagan2 said:
I don't get his loony evangelism approach.....no one is telling him he has to use cash ever if he doesn't want to. Why does it bother him so much that some of us are going cashless....nah pass on that thanks for the offerrcs1000 said:
That's simply not true: the homeless need cash to buy their Tennant's lager.Anabobazina said:
Indeed. And it's risky, carrying it around. I imagine 'petty' robberies (in the absence of a more appropriate term) are much more prevalent in those countries where cash is the norm.Leon said:
Plus you can lose cash, it's a hassle to change it, you put it in the washing machine by mistake, and so on and so forthAnabobazina said:
It really is. A total timer waster –– "oh I have to go to the bank machine, where is the bank machine? Dunno, oh it's x miles away"Leon said:
In Thailand it is still 80% cash at least. It is really quite annoying have to go back to paper wads (let alone meaningless coins). It made me realise that cash is definitely doomed. Cash is a total painAnabobazina said:
I haven't carried a wallet for nearly two years. Both my watch and phone make payments so what exactly is the point of carting around a load of pointless plastic and paper?Cookie said:
Really?Anabobazina said:Re: cash, someone said to me the other day, have you seen the 'new' 50pm coin?
I replied that I hadn't seen it, nor a 50p coin of any kind, old, middle-aged or new, for about a decade.
Up until 2020, I had a coin jar, which accumulated change through the year and was periodically taken to the bank - it used to get about £400 a year in change. Since the pandemic, it no longer builds up ,and I have to go out of my way from time to time to get change to keep it stocked. But I do still need coins, for reasons including, er:
- transactions with children (the tooth fairy doesn't bring plastic)
- tips in restaurants (I want my money to go to the specific waiter/waitress who provided the service)
- buskers
- parking (most car parks accept payment by app but that is a massive pain in the arse, particularly if I don't have my glasses with me)
- filling a pint glass with, then pissing in it and throwing it from on high at 15 year old girls who have a different favourite football team to me (joking - I'm not a Liverpool fan).
It's not a massive list. But cash isn't dead yet.
EDIT: All that said, upon meeting a colleague for the first time in 2 years recently, I was shocked to find he no longer even carries a wallet - just does everything on his phone. Does he not worry about running out of battery? Does he not worry about losing his phone? Does he not worry about having his phone but not his glasses? Apparently not. Not for me, Clive.
Absolutely ridiculous persisting with it nowadays.
Cash is doomed, the same way real gold and silver coins were doomed back in the day, and the value of notes and coins became notional
It's rare among my friends that anyone carries cash – as it's pointless in London.
Perhaps is is you who is the loony evangelist – for cash. Have you ever considered that?0 -
I thought they weren't even a bank? Or at least, they aren't holders of a banking licence.TheScreamingEagles said:
I’d avoid using Revolut.Malmesbury said:
Yes - I've travelled around a couple of Scandinavian countries and never used cash.Fishing said:
Switch to Revolut or Monzo. They're pretty good about not charging for foreign currency transactions.NickPalmer said:
I used Kroner throughout my stay earlier this year - don't trust my bank not to charge exorbitant conversion fees. Didn't have any problem - you've found places refusing cash there?TimS said:
Cards in Scandinavian taxis, before the global era of Uber, were indeed a joy of business travel particularly as Kronor cash wasn’t any use elsewhere and tended to end up sitting around in drawers at home.
The rates that Revolut use are extremely good - their profit comes from a tiny spread.
They are the SNP of challenger banks.
https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/revolut-auditor-flags-concerns-about-576-mln-revenues-long-delayed-accounts-2023-03-01/
Starling seem OK but you can't rant at someone on the phone very easily.0 -
I just find the anti-cash brigade very intolerant and impatient. I don't know why they have to adopt such an attitude.Foxy said:
I have had a week off and not used cash down on the IOW, and haven't used in at least a month in Leicester either. Not even for bus fare.ydoethur said:
He's actually very reasonable on most subjects. But he gets very agitated about cash for some reason. A burning and irrational hatred of it extrapolated from its lower than average use in London to the rest of the country by using forged surveys and waving away all actual evidence that contradicts his views.Driver said:
"Absolutely ridiculous persisting with it nowadays"?Anabobazina said:
What loony evangelism?Pagan2 said:
I don't get his loony evangelism approach.....no one is telling him he has to use cash ever if he doesn't want to. Why does it bother him so much that some of us are going cashless....nah pass on that thanks for the offerrcs1000 said:
That's simply not true: the homeless need cash to buy their Tennant's lager.Anabobazina said:
Indeed. And it's risky, carrying it around. I imagine 'petty' robberies (in the absence of a more appropriate term) are much more prevalent in those countries where cash is the norm.Leon said:
Plus you can lose cash, it's a hassle to change it, you put it in the washing machine by mistake, and so on and so forthAnabobazina said:
It really is. A total timer waster –– "oh I have to go to the bank machine, where is the bank machine? Dunno, oh it's x miles away"Leon said:
In Thailand it is still 80% cash at least. It is really quite annoying have to go back to paper wads (let alone meaningless coins). It made me realise that cash is definitely doomed. Cash is a total painAnabobazina said:
I haven't carried a wallet for nearly two years. Both my watch and phone make payments so what exactly is the point of carting around a load of pointless plastic and paper?Cookie said:
Really?Anabobazina said:Re: cash, someone said to me the other day, have you seen the 'new' 50pm coin?
I replied that I hadn't seen it, nor a 50p coin of any kind, old, middle-aged or new, for about a decade.
Up until 2020, I had a coin jar, which accumulated change through the year and was periodically taken to the bank - it used to get about £400 a year in change. Since the pandemic, it no longer builds up ,and I have to go out of my way from time to time to get change to keep it stocked. But I do still need coins, for reasons including, er:
- transactions with children (the tooth fairy doesn't bring plastic)
- tips in restaurants (I want my money to go to the specific waiter/waitress who provided the service)
- buskers
- parking (most car parks accept payment by app but that is a massive pain in the arse, particularly if I don't have my glasses with me)
- filling a pint glass with, then pissing in it and throwing it from on high at 15 year old girls who have a different favourite football team to me (joking - I'm not a Liverpool fan).
It's not a massive list. But cash isn't dead yet.
EDIT: All that said, upon meeting a colleague for the first time in 2 years recently, I was shocked to find he no longer even carries a wallet - just does everything on his phone. Does he not worry about running out of battery? Does he not worry about losing his phone? Does he not worry about having his phone but not his glasses? Apparently not. Not for me, Clive.
Absolutely ridiculous persisting with it nowadays.
Cash is doomed, the same way real gold and silver coins were doomed back in the day, and the value of notes and coins became notional
It's rare among my friends that anyone carries cash – as it's pointless in London.
Seems a weird thing to get so worked up about, but there we are, everyone's different. After all, Vetinari got worked up about mime artists and there are even those who don't understand the full horror of pineapple pizzas.1 -
And if your bank suddenly decides it doesn't like you ...Pagan2 said:
See few card only shops here but then I am not a hipster londonite that doesn't give a shit about people that can't do non cash payments.Anabobazina said:
A daft response. Most have given up cash because few if any of their customers ever pay with it, so there is no point retaining it.Pagan2 said:
I doubt I would find anywhere I would want to give my custom too that was cashless in any case. They seem to be the sort of place that needs to get over themselves.Anabobazina said:
What loony evangelism? I have said that I don't advocate banning it, simply that it is largely pointless, and actively counterproductive in many cases (see @Leon's points above). You insist on cash if you wish, but you'd struggle around here where many businesses are cashless, and it is rational for them to be so.Pagan2 said:
I don't get his loony evangelism approach.....no one is telling him he has to use cash ever if he doesn't want to. Why does it bother him so much that some of us are going cashless....nah pass on that thanks for the offerrcs1000 said:
That's simply not true: the homeless need cash to buy their Tennant's lager.Anabobazina said:
Indeed. And it's risky, carrying it around. I imagine 'petty' robberies (in the absence of a more appropriate term) are much more prevalent in those countries where cash is the norm.Leon said:
Plus you can lose cash, it's a hassle to change it, you put it in the washing machine by mistake, and so on and so forthAnabobazina said:
It really is. A total timer waster –– "oh I have to go to the bank machine, where is the bank machine? Dunno, oh it's x miles away"Leon said:
In Thailand it is still 80% cash at least. It is really quite annoying have to go back to paper wads (let alone meaningless coins). It made me realise that cash is definitely doomed. Cash is a total painAnabobazina said:
I haven't carried a wallet for nearly two years. Both my watch and phone make payments so what exactly is the point of carting around a load of pointless plastic and paper?Cookie said:
Really?Anabobazina said:Re: cash, someone said to me the other day, have you seen the 'new' 50pm coin?
I replied that I hadn't seen it, nor a 50p coin of any kind, old, middle-aged or new, for about a decade.
Up until 2020, I had a coin jar, which accumulated change through the year and was periodically taken to the bank - it used to get about £400 a year in change. Since the pandemic, it no longer builds up ,and I have to go out of my way from time to time to get change to keep it stocked. But I do still need coins, for reasons including, er:
- transactions with children (the tooth fairy doesn't bring plastic)
- tips in restaurants (I want my money to go to the specific waiter/waitress who provided the service)
- buskers
- parking (most car parks accept payment by app but that is a massive pain in the arse, particularly if I don't have my glasses with me)
- filling a pint glass with, then pissing in it and throwing it from on high at 15 year old girls who have a different favourite football team to me (joking - I'm not a Liverpool fan).
It's not a massive list. But cash isn't dead yet.
EDIT: All that said, upon meeting a colleague for the first time in 2 years recently, I was shocked to find he no longer even carries a wallet - just does everything on his phone. Does he not worry about running out of battery? Does he not worry about losing his phone? Does he not worry about having his phone but not his glasses? Apparently not. Not for me, Clive.
Absolutely ridiculous persisting with it nowadays.
Cash is doomed, the same way real gold and silver coins were doomed back in the day, and the value of notes and coins became notional
It's rare among my friends that anyone carries cash – as it's pointless in London.
Perhaps is is you who is the loony evangelist – for cash. Have you ever considered that?
https://www.which.co.uk/news/article/why-banks-are-freezing-accounts-and-what-to-do-if-it-happens-to-you-aPXrh7F1YCx11 -
You can choose by choosing to take your custom elsewhere.Driver said:
Great that you can decide that without knowing them.Anabobazina said:
I struggle with the veracity of the anecdote – they tell you they can't budget without cash. I say most of them probably could.Driver said:
...struggling with my veracity?Anabobazina said:
I'm not calling you a liar, simplyDriver said:
Bills go out the day after payday, then they withdraw whatever's left in cash and budget accordingly.Anabobazina said:
I struggle with the veracity of such anecdotes. Do they pay their monthly bills by cash, at a post office? Their TV licence? Their mortgage? Their rent? How many people as a proportion of the UK population operate only in cash – and how exactly do they string a life together?Driver said:
Absolutely - I know a few people who like to use cash for budgeting because paying by card doesn't feel like spending money.ManchesterKurt said:
Because there will always be a proportion of the population that require cash as they are unable to deal with more modern ways of budgeting.Anabobazina said:
Why? Would you allow people to pay in postal orders or cheques or similarly obsolete payments?Selebian said:
If there's contactless (hell, even chip and pin) then I'm not too bothered about what else is available. Cash for those who prefer/need that should also be provided, I think.Pulpstar said:
Contactless is great. Phone apps for carparking just shouldn't be allowed. For one thing your debit card won't go out of battery for that 1% of time your phone is out of juice and you can't phone tap the contactless.Tres said:Council round here has moved to phone apps entirely for parking, even though they had machines available which could take contactless payments. Bonkers.
The frustrating thing is that any halfway decent parking app standard would be more convenient for most. Car reg(s) stored in app. Location services pinpoint the car park (or some NFC thing to swipe at worst). Choose your time and go, automatic payment. Extendable without returning to the car park. No queues. Many benefits. The current shit-show is not necessary.
My wife had a very severe stroke 5 years ago and has left her with tremendous mental issues, she cannot understand the difference between up or down, left or right, forwards or backwards. She cannot unlock doors, she cannot leave the house alone.
But she does have a level of financial independence as each month we take some money out of her bank and over the month she manages her spend as she can touch, feel and see her money.
My wife could not deal with a card (if nothing else her eye sight is so poor she cannot see the numbers on the keypads), take away cash and you take away about the only thing in her life that she has any level of independence over.
My wife may be a very extreme case, but there are probably far more people at that end of the spectrum than you would imagine.
Obviously, people who don't need to worry about having month left at the end of the money can merrily tap away.
You can call me a liar if you want.
As for me, I rarely use cash myself - but I always carry £20-£30 just in case. I don't like "cash only" or "card only" businesses - let people choose.1 -
Of course it turns out that things like coins and banknotes weren't an important factor in transmitting Covid 19.kinabalu said:The pandemic killed my cash habit. I used to use it a lot, far more than most, just liked doing it, nice crisp notes, nice shiny coins, but come Covid and the consequent urge to not touch things others had touched I went card only, and now the thought of carrying cash around seems weird. I took £20 out of a machine in Feb 2020 and I still have it sitting there in a drawer. I think I do anyway ... let me just go and check ... yep it's still there. £20.
2 -
Even in the desolate North we are becoming a cashless society.Pagan2 said:
See few card only shops here but then I am not a hipster londonite that doesn't give a shit about people that can't do non cash payments.Anabobazina said:
A daft response. Most have given up cash because few if any of their customers ever pay with it, so there is no point retaining it.Pagan2 said:
I doubt I would find anywhere I would want to give my custom too that was cashless in any case. They seem to be the sort of place that needs to get over themselves.Anabobazina said:
What loony evangelism? I have said that I don't advocate banning it, simply that it is largely pointless, and actively counterproductive in many cases (see @Leon's points above). You insist on cash if you wish, but you'd struggle around here where many businesses are cashless, and it is rational for them to be so.Pagan2 said:
I don't get his loony evangelism approach.....no one is telling him he has to use cash ever if he doesn't want to. Why does it bother him so much that some of us are going cashless....nah pass on that thanks for the offerrcs1000 said:
That's simply not true: the homeless need cash to buy their Tennant's lager.Anabobazina said:
Indeed. And it's risky, carrying it around. I imagine 'petty' robberies (in the absence of a more appropriate term) are much more prevalent in those countries where cash is the norm.Leon said:
Plus you can lose cash, it's a hassle to change it, you put it in the washing machine by mistake, and so on and so forthAnabobazina said:
It really is. A total timer waster –– "oh I have to go to the bank machine, where is the bank machine? Dunno, oh it's x miles away"Leon said:
In Thailand it is still 80% cash at least. It is really quite annoying have to go back to paper wads (let alone meaningless coins). It made me realise that cash is definitely doomed. Cash is a total painAnabobazina said:
I haven't carried a wallet for nearly two years. Both my watch and phone make payments so what exactly is the point of carting around a load of pointless plastic and paper?Cookie said:
Really?Anabobazina said:Re: cash, someone said to me the other day, have you seen the 'new' 50pm coin?
I replied that I hadn't seen it, nor a 50p coin of any kind, old, middle-aged or new, for about a decade.
Up until 2020, I had a coin jar, which accumulated change through the year and was periodically taken to the bank - it used to get about £400 a year in change. Since the pandemic, it no longer builds up ,and I have to go out of my way from time to time to get change to keep it stocked. But I do still need coins, for reasons including, er:
- transactions with children (the tooth fairy doesn't bring plastic)
- tips in restaurants (I want my money to go to the specific waiter/waitress who provided the service)
- buskers
- parking (most car parks accept payment by app but that is a massive pain in the arse, particularly if I don't have my glasses with me)
- filling a pint glass with, then pissing in it and throwing it from on high at 15 year old girls who have a different favourite football team to me (joking - I'm not a Liverpool fan).
It's not a massive list. But cash isn't dead yet.
EDIT: All that said, upon meeting a colleague for the first time in 2 years recently, I was shocked to find he no longer even carries a wallet - just does everything on his phone. Does he not worry about running out of battery? Does he not worry about losing his phone? Does he not worry about having his phone but not his glasses? Apparently not. Not for me, Clive.
Absolutely ridiculous persisting with it nowadays.
Cash is doomed, the same way real gold and silver coins were doomed back in the day, and the value of notes and coins became notional
It's rare among my friends that anyone carries cash – as it's pointless in London.
Perhaps is is you who is the loony evangelist – for cash. Have you ever considered that?
Only occasions I use cash these days is in black cabs (99% take cards) but I’m more of an Uber Exec/Lux man these days.0 -
Even when I lived in the south east last year in slough there was more shops cash only than card only in fact I am trying to think of a card only place in slough before I left in september. Its a purely london phenomenon. The pubs I goto sundays take both happily, so do the buses taxis, takeaways, supermarkets and restaurants and you see plenty using cashAndy_JS said:
I know Wetherspoons in London still take cash.Anabobazina said:
A daft response. Most have given up cash because few if any of their customers ever pay with it, so there is no point retaining it.Pagan2 said:
I doubt I would find anywhere I would want to give my custom too that was cashless in any case. They seem to be the sort of place that needs to get over themselves.Anabobazina said:
What loony evangelism? I have said that I don't advocate banning it, simply that it is largely pointless, and actively counterproductive in many cases (see @Leon's points above). You insist on cash if you wish, but you'd struggle around here where many businesses are cashless, and it is rational for them to be so.Pagan2 said:
I don't get his loony evangelism approach.....no one is telling him he has to use cash ever if he doesn't want to. Why does it bother him so much that some of us are going cashless....nah pass on that thanks for the offerrcs1000 said:
That's simply not true: the homeless need cash to buy their Tennant's lager.Anabobazina said:
Indeed. And it's risky, carrying it around. I imagine 'petty' robberies (in the absence of a more appropriate term) are much more prevalent in those countries where cash is the norm.Leon said:
Plus you can lose cash, it's a hassle to change it, you put it in the washing machine by mistake, and so on and so forthAnabobazina said:
It really is. A total timer waster –– "oh I have to go to the bank machine, where is the bank machine? Dunno, oh it's x miles away"Leon said:
In Thailand it is still 80% cash at least. It is really quite annoying have to go back to paper wads (let alone meaningless coins). It made me realise that cash is definitely doomed. Cash is a total painAnabobazina said:
I haven't carried a wallet for nearly two years. Both my watch and phone make payments so what exactly is the point of carting around a load of pointless plastic and paper?Cookie said:
Really?Anabobazina said:Re: cash, someone said to me the other day, have you seen the 'new' 50pm coin?
I replied that I hadn't seen it, nor a 50p coin of any kind, old, middle-aged or new, for about a decade.
Up until 2020, I had a coin jar, which accumulated change through the year and was periodically taken to the bank - it used to get about £400 a year in change. Since the pandemic, it no longer builds up ,and I have to go out of my way from time to time to get change to keep it stocked. But I do still need coins, for reasons including, er:
- transactions with children (the tooth fairy doesn't bring plastic)
- tips in restaurants (I want my money to go to the specific waiter/waitress who provided the service)
- buskers
- parking (most car parks accept payment by app but that is a massive pain in the arse, particularly if I don't have my glasses with me)
- filling a pint glass with, then pissing in it and throwing it from on high at 15 year old girls who have a different favourite football team to me (joking - I'm not a Liverpool fan).
It's not a massive list. But cash isn't dead yet.
EDIT: All that said, upon meeting a colleague for the first time in 2 years recently, I was shocked to find he no longer even carries a wallet - just does everything on his phone. Does he not worry about running out of battery? Does he not worry about losing his phone? Does he not worry about having his phone but not his glasses? Apparently not. Not for me, Clive.
Absolutely ridiculous persisting with it nowadays.
Cash is doomed, the same way real gold and silver coins were doomed back in the day, and the value of notes and coins became notional
It's rare among my friends that anyone carries cash – as it's pointless in London.
Perhaps is is you who is the loony evangelist – for cash. Have you ever considered that?0 -
I have produced the evidence – that 23 million people use it rarely or never.ydoethur said:
He's actually very reasonable on most subjects. But he gets very agitated about cash for some reason. A burning and irrational hatred of it extrapolated from its lower than average use in London to the rest of the country by using forged surveys and waving away all actual evidence that contradicts his views.Driver said:
"Absolutely ridiculous persisting with it nowadays"?Anabobazina said:
What loony evangelism?Pagan2 said:
I don't get his loony evangelism approach.....no one is telling him he has to use cash ever if he doesn't want to. Why does it bother him so much that some of us are going cashless....nah pass on that thanks for the offerrcs1000 said:
That's simply not true: the homeless need cash to buy their Tennant's lager.Anabobazina said:
Indeed. And it's risky, carrying it around. I imagine 'petty' robberies (in the absence of a more appropriate term) are much more prevalent in those countries where cash is the norm.Leon said:
Plus you can lose cash, it's a hassle to change it, you put it in the washing machine by mistake, and so on and so forthAnabobazina said:
It really is. A total timer waster –– "oh I have to go to the bank machine, where is the bank machine? Dunno, oh it's x miles away"Leon said:
In Thailand it is still 80% cash at least. It is really quite annoying have to go back to paper wads (let alone meaningless coins). It made me realise that cash is definitely doomed. Cash is a total painAnabobazina said:
I haven't carried a wallet for nearly two years. Both my watch and phone make payments so what exactly is the point of carting around a load of pointless plastic and paper?Cookie said:
Really?Anabobazina said:Re: cash, someone said to me the other day, have you seen the 'new' 50pm coin?
I replied that I hadn't seen it, nor a 50p coin of any kind, old, middle-aged or new, for about a decade.
Up until 2020, I had a coin jar, which accumulated change through the year and was periodically taken to the bank - it used to get about £400 a year in change. Since the pandemic, it no longer builds up ,and I have to go out of my way from time to time to get change to keep it stocked. But I do still need coins, for reasons including, er:
- transactions with children (the tooth fairy doesn't bring plastic)
- tips in restaurants (I want my money to go to the specific waiter/waitress who provided the service)
- buskers
- parking (most car parks accept payment by app but that is a massive pain in the arse, particularly if I don't have my glasses with me)
- filling a pint glass with, then pissing in it and throwing it from on high at 15 year old girls who have a different favourite football team to me (joking - I'm not a Liverpool fan).
It's not a massive list. But cash isn't dead yet.
EDIT: All that said, upon meeting a colleague for the first time in 2 years recently, I was shocked to find he no longer even carries a wallet - just does everything on his phone. Does he not worry about running out of battery? Does he not worry about losing his phone? Does he not worry about having his phone but not his glasses? Apparently not. Not for me, Clive.
Absolutely ridiculous persisting with it nowadays.
Cash is doomed, the same way real gold and silver coins were doomed back in the day, and the value of notes and coins became notional
It's rare among my friends that anyone carries cash – as it's pointless in London.
Seems a weird thing to get so worked up about, but there we are, everyone's different. After all, Vetinari got worked up about mime artists and there are even those who don't understand the full horror of pineapple pizzas.
Fewer than one cash transaction a month for around half of all adults. Twelve – 12! – cash transactions A YEAR!
I haven't used cash for any transaction for as long as I remember and even when I have it's been very grudgingly to tradesmen who demand it –– I wonder why? This is not just in London but, as I have already said, in many remote areas where I holiday. Others have said similarly.
I think persisting with it is ridiculous for most people and businesses. I wouldn't ban it yet, but if it ends up constituting fewer than 5% of all transactions – which is likely, quite soon – we will need to have a national policy debate about its abolition.
These are rational points.
Much of the pro-cash stuff on here is emotional guff.
0 -
Sounds like you haven't use banknotes for so long you haven't noticed they're now mostly waterproof.Leon said:
Plus you can lose cash, it's a hassle to change it, you put it in the washing machine by mistake, and so on and so forthAnabobazina said:
It really is. A total timer waster –– "oh I have to go to the bank machine, where is the bank machine? Dunno, oh it's x miles away"Leon said:
In Thailand it is still 80% cash at least. It is really quite annoying have to go back to paper wads (let alone meaningless coins). It made me realise that cash is definitely doomed. Cash is a total painAnabobazina said:
I haven't carried a wallet for nearly two years. Both my watch and phone make payments so what exactly is the point of carting around a load of pointless plastic and paper?Cookie said:
Really?Anabobazina said:Re: cash, someone said to me the other day, have you seen the 'new' 50pm coin?
I replied that I hadn't seen it, nor a 50p coin of any kind, old, middle-aged or new, for about a decade.
Up until 2020, I had a coin jar, which accumulated change through the year and was periodically taken to the bank - it used to get about £400 a year in change. Since the pandemic, it no longer builds up ,and I have to go out of my way from time to time to get change to keep it stocked. But I do still need coins, for reasons including, er:
- transactions with children (the tooth fairy doesn't bring plastic)
- tips in restaurants (I want my money to go to the specific waiter/waitress who provided the service)
- buskers
- parking (most car parks accept payment by app but that is a massive pain in the arse, particularly if I don't have my glasses with me)
- filling a pint glass with, then pissing in it and throwing it from on high at 15 year old girls who have a different favourite football team to me (joking - I'm not a Liverpool fan).
It's not a massive list. But cash isn't dead yet.
EDIT: All that said, upon meeting a colleague for the first time in 2 years recently, I was shocked to find he no longer even carries a wallet - just does everything on his phone. Does he not worry about running out of battery? Does he not worry about losing his phone? Does he not worry about having his phone but not his glasses? Apparently not. Not for me, Clive.
Absolutely ridiculous persisting with it nowadays.
Cash is doomed, the same way real gold and silver coins were doomed back in the day, and the value of notes and coins became notional1 -
I think we might be able to discount him as a contender for the VP slot ?
this is quite the word salad from Tim Scott on a national abortion ban
https://mobile.twitter.com/atrupar/status/16465305249602396160 -
Shrugs who cares what you think to be honest, cashless only are a minority and there will never be enough of you to get rid of cash.Anabobazina said:
I have produced the evidence – that 23 million people use it rarely or never.ydoethur said:
He's actually very reasonable on most subjects. But he gets very agitated about cash for some reason. A burning and irrational hatred of it extrapolated from its lower than average use in London to the rest of the country by using forged surveys and waving away all actual evidence that contradicts his views.Driver said:
"Absolutely ridiculous persisting with it nowadays"?Anabobazina said:
What loony evangelism?Pagan2 said:
I don't get his loony evangelism approach.....no one is telling him he has to use cash ever if he doesn't want to. Why does it bother him so much that some of us are going cashless....nah pass on that thanks for the offerrcs1000 said:
That's simply not true: the homeless need cash to buy their Tennant's lager.Anabobazina said:
Indeed. And it's risky, carrying it around. I imagine 'petty' robberies (in the absence of a more appropriate term) are much more prevalent in those countries where cash is the norm.Leon said:
Plus you can lose cash, it's a hassle to change it, you put it in the washing machine by mistake, and so on and so forthAnabobazina said:
It really is. A total timer waster –– "oh I have to go to the bank machine, where is the bank machine? Dunno, oh it's x miles away"Leon said:
In Thailand it is still 80% cash at least. It is really quite annoying have to go back to paper wads (let alone meaningless coins). It made me realise that cash is definitely doomed. Cash is a total painAnabobazina said:
I haven't carried a wallet for nearly two years. Both my watch and phone make payments so what exactly is the point of carting around a load of pointless plastic and paper?Cookie said:
Really?Anabobazina said:Re: cash, someone said to me the other day, have you seen the 'new' 50pm coin?
I replied that I hadn't seen it, nor a 50p coin of any kind, old, middle-aged or new, for about a decade.
Up until 2020, I had a coin jar, which accumulated change through the year and was periodically taken to the bank - it used to get about £400 a year in change. Since the pandemic, it no longer builds up ,and I have to go out of my way from time to time to get change to keep it stocked. But I do still need coins, for reasons including, er:
- transactions with children (the tooth fairy doesn't bring plastic)
- tips in restaurants (I want my money to go to the specific waiter/waitress who provided the service)
- buskers
- parking (most car parks accept payment by app but that is a massive pain in the arse, particularly if I don't have my glasses with me)
- filling a pint glass with, then pissing in it and throwing it from on high at 15 year old girls who have a different favourite football team to me (joking - I'm not a Liverpool fan).
It's not a massive list. But cash isn't dead yet.
EDIT: All that said, upon meeting a colleague for the first time in 2 years recently, I was shocked to find he no longer even carries a wallet - just does everything on his phone. Does he not worry about running out of battery? Does he not worry about losing his phone? Does he not worry about having his phone but not his glasses? Apparently not. Not for me, Clive.
Absolutely ridiculous persisting with it nowadays.
Cash is doomed, the same way real gold and silver coins were doomed back in the day, and the value of notes and coins became notional
It's rare among my friends that anyone carries cash – as it's pointless in London.
Seems a weird thing to get so worked up about, but there we are, everyone's different. After all, Vetinari got worked up about mime artists and there are even those who don't understand the full horror of pineapple pizzas.
Fewer than one cash transaction a month for around half of all adults. Twelve – 12! – cash transactions A YEAR!
I haven't used cash for any transaction for as long as I remember and even when I have it's been very grudgingly to tradesmen who demand it –– I wonder why? This is not just in London but, as I have already said, in many remote areas where I holiday. Others have said similarly.
I think persisting with it is ridiculous for most people and businesses. I wouldn't ban it yet, but if it ends up constituting fewer than 5% of all transactions – which is likely, quite soon – we will need to have a national policy debate about its abolition.
These are rational points.
Much of the pro-cash stuff on here is emotional guff.0 -
So now you resort to personal insults.Pagan2 said:
I sound angry because there are fuckwits like you always on every subject going yes I don't need that and all those poor people they don't need it either they can learn to cope. Sometimes from the left sometimes from the right. I particularly loved the way you batted aside the reference to those that have dyscalculia....presumably not so right on as dyslexia where you would be shrieking like a banshee if someone tried to hold them to account for their spelling and saying they they should just use a spellchecker and learn to copeAnabobazina said:
I'm not misrepresenting. If you only use cash once a month then it's perfectly fair to describe that as "rarely".Pagan2 said:
It wasnt rarely that is Anabob misrepresentingDriver said:
I would be "rarely". That doesn't mean I think abolishing cash is acceptable.Anabobazina said:
The "never or rarely" number was 23 million people last year, with only 15% of all transactions in cash. That's expected to fall to 6% by 2032. At what stage do we have a national debate about abolishing it?Pagan2 said:
The number who never use cash isn't even 50% of people. The cashless are still the minority cash users are not a tiny proportion.Anabobazina said:
It's going to become a big policy question, probably fairly soon. Cash is dying. A large and growing proportion of the population never or rarely use it. It's like analogue telly – getting the holdouts to switch to digital was vexatious for a while, but it happened. Retaining cash when a tiny proportion of the population use it will be akin to retaining analogue telly.Pagan2 said:
I am curious why you are strident on this issue, most of those saying they should be able to continue to pay cash aren't telling you that you must use cash. They are just saying they want to retain the right to use cash instead of card/phone whatever.Anabobazina said:
I'm not calling you a liar, simply challenging the idea that they wouldn't learn to budget were cash unavailable. People adapt. Seatbelt paradox.Driver said:
Bills go out the day after payday, then they withdraw whatever's left in cash and budget accordingly.Anabobazina said:
I struggle with the veracity of such anecdotes. Do they pay their monthly bills by cash, at a post office? Their TV licence? Their mortgage? Their rent? How many people as a proportion of the UK population operate only in cash – and how exactly do they string a life together?Driver said:
Absolutely - I know a few people who like to use cash for budgeting because paying by card doesn't feel like spending money.ManchesterKurt said:
Because there will always be a proportion of the population that require cash as they are unable to deal with more modern ways of budgeting.Anabobazina said:
Why? Would you allow people to pay in postal orders or cheques or similarly obsolete payments?Selebian said:
If there's contactless (hell, even chip and pin) then I'm not too bothered about what else is available. Cash for those who prefer/need that should also be provided, I think.Pulpstar said:
Contactless is great. Phone apps for carparking just shouldn't be allowed. For one thing your debit card won't go out of battery for that 1% of time your phone is out of juice and you can't phone tap the contactless.Tres said:Council round here has moved to phone apps entirely for parking, even though they had machines available which could take contactless payments. Bonkers.
The frustrating thing is that any halfway decent parking app standard would be more convenient for most. Car reg(s) stored in app. Location services pinpoint the car park (or some NFC thing to swipe at worst). Choose your time and go, automatic payment. Extendable without returning to the car park. No queues. Many benefits. The current shit-show is not necessary.
My wife had a very severe stroke 5 years ago and has left her with tremendous mental issues, she cannot understand the difference between up or down, left or right, forwards or backwards. She cannot unlock doors, she cannot leave the house alone.
But she does have a level of financial independence as each month we take some money out of her bank and over the month she manages her spend as she can touch, feel and see her money.
My wife could not deal with a card (if nothing else her eye sight is so poor she cannot see the numbers on the keypads), take away cash and you take away about the only thing in her life that she has any level of independence over.
My wife may be a very extreme case, but there are probably far more people at that end of the spectrum than you would imagine.
Obviously, people who don't need to worry about having month left at the end of the money can merrily tap away.
You can call me a liar if you want.
So if no one is saying you have to be made to use cash...why are you so fervent on stopping those that want the option to continue having the option to use cash?
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2022/aug/18/uk-cashless-society-a-step-closer-as-more-than-23m-people-abandon-coins
"During 2021 there were 23.1 million consumers who used cash only once a month or not at all" is the quote... once or not at all. Rarely is not once
(And why do you always sound so angry in your posts?)
A classic sign that you have lost the argument.0 -
CIFAS markers are a bastard.Carnyx said:
And if your bank suddenly decides it doesn't like you ...Pagan2 said:
See few card only shops here but then I am not a hipster londonite that doesn't give a shit about people that can't do non cash payments.Anabobazina said:
A daft response. Most have given up cash because few if any of their customers ever pay with it, so there is no point retaining it.Pagan2 said:
I doubt I would find anywhere I would want to give my custom too that was cashless in any case. They seem to be the sort of place that needs to get over themselves.Anabobazina said:
What loony evangelism? I have said that I don't advocate banning it, simply that it is largely pointless, and actively counterproductive in many cases (see @Leon's points above). You insist on cash if you wish, but you'd struggle around here where many businesses are cashless, and it is rational for them to be so.Pagan2 said:
I don't get his loony evangelism approach.....no one is telling him he has to use cash ever if he doesn't want to. Why does it bother him so much that some of us are going cashless....nah pass on that thanks for the offerrcs1000 said:
That's simply not true: the homeless need cash to buy their Tennant's lager.Anabobazina said:
Indeed. And it's risky, carrying it around. I imagine 'petty' robberies (in the absence of a more appropriate term) are much more prevalent in those countries where cash is the norm.Leon said:
Plus you can lose cash, it's a hassle to change it, you put it in the washing machine by mistake, and so on and so forthAnabobazina said:
It really is. A total timer waster –– "oh I have to go to the bank machine, where is the bank machine? Dunno, oh it's x miles away"Leon said:
In Thailand it is still 80% cash at least. It is really quite annoying have to go back to paper wads (let alone meaningless coins). It made me realise that cash is definitely doomed. Cash is a total painAnabobazina said:
I haven't carried a wallet for nearly two years. Both my watch and phone make payments so what exactly is the point of carting around a load of pointless plastic and paper?Cookie said:
Really?Anabobazina said:Re: cash, someone said to me the other day, have you seen the 'new' 50pm coin?
I replied that I hadn't seen it, nor a 50p coin of any kind, old, middle-aged or new, for about a decade.
Up until 2020, I had a coin jar, which accumulated change through the year and was periodically taken to the bank - it used to get about £400 a year in change. Since the pandemic, it no longer builds up ,and I have to go out of my way from time to time to get change to keep it stocked. But I do still need coins, for reasons including, er:
- transactions with children (the tooth fairy doesn't bring plastic)
- tips in restaurants (I want my money to go to the specific waiter/waitress who provided the service)
- buskers
- parking (most car parks accept payment by app but that is a massive pain in the arse, particularly if I don't have my glasses with me)
- filling a pint glass with, then pissing in it and throwing it from on high at 15 year old girls who have a different favourite football team to me (joking - I'm not a Liverpool fan).
It's not a massive list. But cash isn't dead yet.
EDIT: All that said, upon meeting a colleague for the first time in 2 years recently, I was shocked to find he no longer even carries a wallet - just does everything on his phone. Does he not worry about running out of battery? Does he not worry about losing his phone? Does he not worry about having his phone but not his glasses? Apparently not. Not for me, Clive.
Absolutely ridiculous persisting with it nowadays.
Cash is doomed, the same way real gold and silver coins were doomed back in the day, and the value of notes and coins became notional
It's rare among my friends that anyone carries cash – as it's pointless in London.
Perhaps is is you who is the loony evangelist – for cash. Have you ever considered that?
https://www.which.co.uk/news/article/why-banks-are-freezing-accounts-and-what-to-do-if-it-happens-to-you-aPXrh7F1YCx1
But the likes of Monzo etc don’t care.0 -
Is\n't that word 'transaction' remarkably loaded? As another of us has pointed out, lots of cash exchange takes place whichn the banks don't count.Anabobazina said:
I have produced the evidence – that 23 million people use it rarely or never.ydoethur said:
He's actually very reasonable on most subjects. But he gets very agitated about cash for some reason. A burning and irrational hatred of it extrapolated from its lower than average use in London to the rest of the country by using forged surveys and waving away all actual evidence that contradicts his views.Driver said:
"Absolutely ridiculous persisting with it nowadays"?Anabobazina said:
What loony evangelism?Pagan2 said:
I don't get his loony evangelism approach.....no one is telling him he has to use cash ever if he doesn't want to. Why does it bother him so much that some of us are going cashless....nah pass on that thanks for the offerrcs1000 said:
That's simply not true: the homeless need cash to buy their Tennant's lager.Anabobazina said:
Indeed. And it's risky, carrying it around. I imagine 'petty' robberies (in the absence of a more appropriate term) are much more prevalent in those countries where cash is the norm.Leon said:
Plus you can lose cash, it's a hassle to change it, you put it in the washing machine by mistake, and so on and so forthAnabobazina said:
It really is. A total timer waster –– "oh I have to go to the bank machine, where is the bank machine? Dunno, oh it's x miles away"Leon said:
In Thailand it is still 80% cash at least. It is really quite annoying have to go back to paper wads (let alone meaningless coins). It made me realise that cash is definitely doomed. Cash is a total painAnabobazina said:
I haven't carried a wallet for nearly two years. Both my watch and phone make payments so what exactly is the point of carting around a load of pointless plastic and paper?Cookie said:
Really?Anabobazina said:Re: cash, someone said to me the other day, have you seen the 'new' 50pm coin?
I replied that I hadn't seen it, nor a 50p coin of any kind, old, middle-aged or new, for about a decade.
Up until 2020, I had a coin jar, which accumulated change through the year and was periodically taken to the bank - it used to get about £400 a year in change. Since the pandemic, it no longer builds up ,and I have to go out of my way from time to time to get change to keep it stocked. But I do still need coins, for reasons including, er:
- transactions with children (the tooth fairy doesn't bring plastic)
- tips in restaurants (I want my money to go to the specific waiter/waitress who provided the service)
- buskers
- parking (most car parks accept payment by app but that is a massive pain in the arse, particularly if I don't have my glasses with me)
- filling a pint glass with, then pissing in it and throwing it from on high at 15 year old girls who have a different favourite football team to me (joking - I'm not a Liverpool fan).
It's not a massive list. But cash isn't dead yet.
EDIT: All that said, upon meeting a colleague for the first time in 2 years recently, I was shocked to find he no longer even carries a wallet - just does everything on his phone. Does he not worry about running out of battery? Does he not worry about losing his phone? Does he not worry about having his phone but not his glasses? Apparently not. Not for me, Clive.
Absolutely ridiculous persisting with it nowadays.
Cash is doomed, the same way real gold and silver coins were doomed back in the day, and the value of notes and coins became notional
It's rare among my friends that anyone carries cash – as it's pointless in London.
Seems a weird thing to get so worked up about, but there we are, everyone's different. After all, Vetinari got worked up about mime artists and there are even those who don't understand the full horror of pineapple pizzas.
Fewer than one cash transaction a month for around half of all adults. Twelve – 12! – cash transactions A YEAR!
I haven't used cash for any transaction for as long as I remember and even when I have it's been very grudgingly to tradesmen who demand it –– I wonder why? This is not just in London but, as I have already said, in many remote areas where I holiday. Others have said similarly.
I think persisting with it is ridiculous for most people and businesses. I wouldn't ban it yet, but if it ends up constituting fewer than 5% of all transactions – which is likely, quite soon – we will need to have a national policy debate about its abolition.
These are rational points.
Much of the pro-cash stuff on here is emotional guff.0 -
Yes, or lost down the back of the sofa in many similar cases.ohnotnow said:
I did a "click'n'collect" order a while back and when I went in to pick up my stuff they'd had to substitute something and owed me two quid. So they gave me two shiny pound coins. I honestly stood for a second or two staring at them in wonder - items from the before times.ydoethur said:
It's around 18-21% only use cash (the figures cannot be exact for obvious reasons). But 83% still use it as a regular part of their lives.Anabobazina said:
Agreed – and I'm not calling for an immediate ban. Simply that, as you say, it's going to dwindle so low that we'll have to make a realistic decision at some point fairly soon about phasing it out.NickPalmer said:
Sympathies, Kurt, that sounds very rough for her (and probably for you too).ManchesterKurt said:
Because there will always be a proportion of the population that require cash as they are unable to deal with more modern ways of budgeting.Anabobazina said:
Why? Would you allow people to pay in postal orders or cheques or similarly obsolete payments?Selebian said:
If there's contactless (hell, even chip and pin) then I'm not too bothered about what else is available. Cash for those who prefer/need that should also be provided, I think.Pulpstar said:
Contactless is great. Phone apps for carparking just shouldn't be allowed. For one thing your debit card won't go out of battery for that 1% of time your phone is out of juice and you can't phone tap the contactless.Tres said:Council round here has moved to phone apps entirely for parking, even though they had machines available which could take contactless payments. Bonkers.
The frustrating thing is that any halfway decent parking app standard would be more convenient for most. Car reg(s) stored in app. Location services pinpoint the car park (or some NFC thing to swipe at worst). Choose your time and go, automatic payment. Extendable without returning to the car park. No queues. Many benefits. The current shit-show is not necessary.
My wife had a very severe stroke 5 years ago and has left her with tremendous mental issues, she cannot understand the difference between up or down, left or right, forwards or backwards. She cannot unlock doors, she cannot leave the house alone.
But she does have a level of financial independence as each month we take some money out of her bank and over the month she manages her spend as she can touch, feel and see her money.
My wife could not deal with a card (if nothing else her eye sight is so poor she cannot see the numbers on the keypads), take away cash and you take away about the only thing in her life that she has any level of independence over.
My wife may be a very extreme case, but there are probably far more people at that end of the spectrum than you would imagine.
This is one of those areas where people in one cultural framework imagine that everyone else is. I know people like Anabob who use phones for everything, and people who use cash for everything. Most of my circle use contactless cards most of the time, and cash now and then. But in terms of avoiding social exclusion, it's important to maintain means of dealing with the world which are not found difficult by a large group of society, and elderly folk who can't handle smart watches (or even laptops) are still very common. When the number diminishes below 1%, it'll be reasonable to phase out cash, but for now it still makes sense to make it a requirement for any public service.
Presumably the trend to electronic transactions has reduced certain types of crime, or at least made them harder - tradesmen wanting to be paid in cash now look fishy rather than normal, though I suspect it's still quite common.
I'd been keen to know what proportion of the population only use cash... I suspect it's very low indeed currently – albeit not as low as 1%.
https://www.thersa.org/blog/2022/04/card-or-cash-patterns-of-cash-use-in-the-uk
It was suggested above that notes will go last. I would expect coins to survive them actually for the simple reason they are more useful in the smaller transactions that will stubbornly cling on.
They're still sat on the hall sideboard months later.
Or not paid at all, as not worth it.
An economic nonsense.
0 -
Because when its pointed out to you a leftie who is meant to care about the poor and disadvantaged and disabled your cashless utopia will cause them issues your response is....they will have to learn to deal....wow just wow. I as a fairly hard right person have more compassion for them than you so yes you are a fuckwit. You are virtue signalling idiot who cares more about seeming like they are hip and the future than the effect on the people you claim to care for, you remember them the down trodden, the dispossessed, the disabled, the poor, the neurodivergent.....your opinion is fuck them they will learn to deal. I can't lose an argument with you because you have no valid point to even argue about you are just a "Aren't I cool I embraced the future" idiot.Anabobazina said:
So now you resort to personal insults.Pagan2 said:
I sound angry because there are fuckwits like you always on every subject going yes I don't need that and all those poor people they don't need it either they can learn to cope. Sometimes from the left sometimes from the right. I particularly loved the way you batted aside the reference to those that have dyscalculia....presumably not so right on as dyslexia where you would be shrieking like a banshee if someone tried to hold them to account for their spelling and saying they they should just use a spellchecker and learn to copeAnabobazina said:
I'm not misrepresenting. If you only use cash once a month then it's perfectly fair to describe that as "rarely".Pagan2 said:
It wasnt rarely that is Anabob misrepresentingDriver said:
I would be "rarely". That doesn't mean I think abolishing cash is acceptable.Anabobazina said:
The "never or rarely" number was 23 million people last year, with only 15% of all transactions in cash. That's expected to fall to 6% by 2032. At what stage do we have a national debate about abolishing it?Pagan2 said:
The number who never use cash isn't even 50% of people. The cashless are still the minority cash users are not a tiny proportion.Anabobazina said:
It's going to become a big policy question, probably fairly soon. Cash is dying. A large and growing proportion of the population never or rarely use it. It's like analogue telly – getting the holdouts to switch to digital was vexatious for a while, but it happened. Retaining cash when a tiny proportion of the population use it will be akin to retaining analogue telly.Pagan2 said:
I am curious why you are strident on this issue, most of those saying they should be able to continue to pay cash aren't telling you that you must use cash. They are just saying they want to retain the right to use cash instead of card/phone whatever.Anabobazina said:
I'm not calling you a liar, simply challenging the idea that they wouldn't learn to budget were cash unavailable. People adapt. Seatbelt paradox.Driver said:
Bills go out the day after payday, then they withdraw whatever's left in cash and budget accordingly.Anabobazina said:
I struggle with the veracity of such anecdotes. Do they pay their monthly bills by cash, at a post office? Their TV licence? Their mortgage? Their rent? How many people as a proportion of the UK population operate only in cash – and how exactly do they string a life together?Driver said:
Absolutely - I know a few people who like to use cash for budgeting because paying by card doesn't feel like spending money.ManchesterKurt said:
Because there will always be a proportion of the population that require cash as they are unable to deal with more modern ways of budgeting.Anabobazina said:
Why? Would you allow people to pay in postal orders or cheques or similarly obsolete payments?Selebian said:
If there's contactless (hell, even chip and pin) then I'm not too bothered about what else is available. Cash for those who prefer/need that should also be provided, I think.Pulpstar said:
Contactless is great. Phone apps for carparking just shouldn't be allowed. For one thing your debit card won't go out of battery for that 1% of time your phone is out of juice and you can't phone tap the contactless.Tres said:Council round here has moved to phone apps entirely for parking, even though they had machines available which could take contactless payments. Bonkers.
The frustrating thing is that any halfway decent parking app standard would be more convenient for most. Car reg(s) stored in app. Location services pinpoint the car park (or some NFC thing to swipe at worst). Choose your time and go, automatic payment. Extendable without returning to the car park. No queues. Many benefits. The current shit-show is not necessary.
My wife had a very severe stroke 5 years ago and has left her with tremendous mental issues, she cannot understand the difference between up or down, left or right, forwards or backwards. She cannot unlock doors, she cannot leave the house alone.
But she does have a level of financial independence as each month we take some money out of her bank and over the month she manages her spend as she can touch, feel and see her money.
My wife could not deal with a card (if nothing else her eye sight is so poor she cannot see the numbers on the keypads), take away cash and you take away about the only thing in her life that she has any level of independence over.
My wife may be a very extreme case, but there are probably far more people at that end of the spectrum than you would imagine.
Obviously, people who don't need to worry about having month left at the end of the money can merrily tap away.
You can call me a liar if you want.
So if no one is saying you have to be made to use cash...why are you so fervent on stopping those that want the option to continue having the option to use cash?
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2022/aug/18/uk-cashless-society-a-step-closer-as-more-than-23m-people-abandon-coins
"During 2021 there were 23.1 million consumers who used cash only once a month or not at all" is the quote... once or not at all. Rarely is not once
(And why do you always sound so angry in your posts?)
A classic sign that you have lost the argument.1 -
Not if you want to buy something that only one place sells and that place excludes you.Gallowgate said:
You can choose by choosing to take your custom elsewhere.Driver said:
Great that you can decide that without knowing them.Anabobazina said:
I struggle with the veracity of the anecdote – they tell you they can't budget without cash. I say most of them probably could.Driver said:
...struggling with my veracity?Anabobazina said:
I'm not calling you a liar, simplyDriver said:
Bills go out the day after payday, then they withdraw whatever's left in cash and budget accordingly.Anabobazina said:
I struggle with the veracity of such anecdotes. Do they pay their monthly bills by cash, at a post office? Their TV licence? Their mortgage? Their rent? How many people as a proportion of the UK population operate only in cash – and how exactly do they string a life together?Driver said:
Absolutely - I know a few people who like to use cash for budgeting because paying by card doesn't feel like spending money.ManchesterKurt said:
Because there will always be a proportion of the population that require cash as they are unable to deal with more modern ways of budgeting.Anabobazina said:
Why? Would you allow people to pay in postal orders or cheques or similarly obsolete payments?Selebian said:
If there's contactless (hell, even chip and pin) then I'm not too bothered about what else is available. Cash for those who prefer/need that should also be provided, I think.Pulpstar said:
Contactless is great. Phone apps for carparking just shouldn't be allowed. For one thing your debit card won't go out of battery for that 1% of time your phone is out of juice and you can't phone tap the contactless.Tres said:Council round here has moved to phone apps entirely for parking, even though they had machines available which could take contactless payments. Bonkers.
The frustrating thing is that any halfway decent parking app standard would be more convenient for most. Car reg(s) stored in app. Location services pinpoint the car park (or some NFC thing to swipe at worst). Choose your time and go, automatic payment. Extendable without returning to the car park. No queues. Many benefits. The current shit-show is not necessary.
My wife had a very severe stroke 5 years ago and has left her with tremendous mental issues, she cannot understand the difference between up or down, left or right, forwards or backwards. She cannot unlock doors, she cannot leave the house alone.
But she does have a level of financial independence as each month we take some money out of her bank and over the month she manages her spend as she can touch, feel and see her money.
My wife could not deal with a card (if nothing else her eye sight is so poor she cannot see the numbers on the keypads), take away cash and you take away about the only thing in her life that she has any level of independence over.
My wife may be a very extreme case, but there are probably far more people at that end of the spectrum than you would imagine.
Obviously, people who don't need to worry about having month left at the end of the money can merrily tap away.
You can call me a liar if you want.
As for me, I rarely use cash myself - but I always carry £20-£30 just in case. I don't like "cash only" or "card only" businesses - let people choose.1 -
You wouldn't ban it yet, but you might ban it in the future perhaps.Anabobazina said:
I have produced the evidence – that 23 million people use it rarely or never.ydoethur said:
He's actually very reasonable on most subjects. But he gets very agitated about cash for some reason. A burning and irrational hatred of it extrapolated from its lower than average use in London to the rest of the country by using forged surveys and waving away all actual evidence that contradicts his views.Driver said:
"Absolutely ridiculous persisting with it nowadays"?Anabobazina said:
What loony evangelism?Pagan2 said:
I don't get his loony evangelism approach.....no one is telling him he has to use cash ever if he doesn't want to. Why does it bother him so much that some of us are going cashless....nah pass on that thanks for the offerrcs1000 said:
That's simply not true: the homeless need cash to buy their Tennant's lager.Anabobazina said:
Indeed. And it's risky, carrying it around. I imagine 'petty' robberies (in the absence of a more appropriate term) are much more prevalent in those countries where cash is the norm.Leon said:
Plus you can lose cash, it's a hassle to change it, you put it in the washing machine by mistake, and so on and so forthAnabobazina said:
It really is. A total timer waster –– "oh I have to go to the bank machine, where is the bank machine? Dunno, oh it's x miles away"Leon said:
In Thailand it is still 80% cash at least. It is really quite annoying have to go back to paper wads (let alone meaningless coins). It made me realise that cash is definitely doomed. Cash is a total painAnabobazina said:
I haven't carried a wallet for nearly two years. Both my watch and phone make payments so what exactly is the point of carting around a load of pointless plastic and paper?Cookie said:
Really?Anabobazina said:Re: cash, someone said to me the other day, have you seen the 'new' 50pm coin?
I replied that I hadn't seen it, nor a 50p coin of any kind, old, middle-aged or new, for about a decade.
Up until 2020, I had a coin jar, which accumulated change through the year and was periodically taken to the bank - it used to get about £400 a year in change. Since the pandemic, it no longer builds up ,and I have to go out of my way from time to time to get change to keep it stocked. But I do still need coins, for reasons including, er:
- transactions with children (the tooth fairy doesn't bring plastic)
- tips in restaurants (I want my money to go to the specific waiter/waitress who provided the service)
- buskers
- parking (most car parks accept payment by app but that is a massive pain in the arse, particularly if I don't have my glasses with me)
- filling a pint glass with, then pissing in it and throwing it from on high at 15 year old girls who have a different favourite football team to me (joking - I'm not a Liverpool fan).
It's not a massive list. But cash isn't dead yet.
EDIT: All that said, upon meeting a colleague for the first time in 2 years recently, I was shocked to find he no longer even carries a wallet - just does everything on his phone. Does he not worry about running out of battery? Does he not worry about losing his phone? Does he not worry about having his phone but not his glasses? Apparently not. Not for me, Clive.
Absolutely ridiculous persisting with it nowadays.
Cash is doomed, the same way real gold and silver coins were doomed back in the day, and the value of notes and coins became notional
It's rare among my friends that anyone carries cash – as it's pointless in London.
Seems a weird thing to get so worked up about, but there we are, everyone's different. After all, Vetinari got worked up about mime artists and there are even those who don't understand the full horror of pineapple pizzas.
Fewer than one cash transaction a month for around half of all adults. Twelve – 12! – cash transactions A YEAR!
I haven't used cash for any transaction for as long as I remember and even when I have it's been very grudgingly to tradesmen who demand it –– I wonder why? This is not just in London but, as I have already said, in many remote areas where I holiday. Others have said similarly.
I think persisting with it is ridiculous for most people and businesses. I wouldn't ban it yet, but if it ends up constituting fewer than 5% of all transactions – which is likely, quite soon – we will need to have a national policy debate about its abolition.
These are rational points.
Much of the pro-cash stuff on here is emotional guff.0 -
I'm struggling to believe you wrote that, and that @Andy_JS 'liked' it.Pagan2 said:
Because when its pointed out to you a leftie who is meant to care about the poor and disadvantaged and disabled your cashless utopia will cause them issues your response is....they will have to learn to deal....wow just wow. I as a fairly hard right person have more compassion for them than you so yes you are a fuckwit. You are virtue signalling idiot who cares more about seeming like they are hip and the future than the effect on the people you claim to care for, you remember them the down trodden, the dispossessed, the disabled, the poor, the neurodivergent.....your opinion is fuck them they will learn to deal. I can't lose an argument with you because you have no valid point to even argue about you are just a "Aren't I cool I embraced the future" idiot.Anabobazina said:
So now you resort to personal insults.Pagan2 said:
I sound angry because there are fuckwits like you always on every subject going yes I don't need that and all those poor people they don't need it either they can learn to cope. Sometimes from the left sometimes from the right. I particularly loved the way you batted aside the reference to those that have dyscalculia....presumably not so right on as dyslexia where you would be shrieking like a banshee if someone tried to hold them to account for their spelling and saying they they should just use a spellchecker and learn to copeAnabobazina said:
I'm not misrepresenting. If you only use cash once a month then it's perfectly fair to describe that as "rarely".Pagan2 said:
It wasnt rarely that is Anabob misrepresentingDriver said:
I would be "rarely". That doesn't mean I think abolishing cash is acceptable.Anabobazina said:
The "never or rarely" number was 23 million people last year, with only 15% of all transactions in cash. That's expected to fall to 6% by 2032. At what stage do we have a national debate about abolishing it?Pagan2 said:
The number who never use cash isn't even 50% of people. The cashless are still the minority cash users are not a tiny proportion.Anabobazina said:
It's going to become a big policy question, probably fairly soon. Cash is dying. A large and growing proportion of the population never or rarely use it. It's like analogue telly – getting the holdouts to switch to digital was vexatious for a while, but it happened. Retaining cash when a tiny proportion of the population use it will be akin to retaining analogue telly.Pagan2 said:
I am curious why you are strident on this issue, most of those saying they should be able to continue to pay cash aren't telling you that you must use cash. They are just saying they want to retain the right to use cash instead of card/phone whatever.Anabobazina said:
I'm not calling you a liar, simply challenging the idea that they wouldn't learn to budget were cash unavailable. People adapt. Seatbelt paradox.Driver said:
Bills go out the day after payday, then they withdraw whatever's left in cash and budget accordingly.Anabobazina said:
I struggle with the veracity of such anecdotes. Do they pay their monthly bills by cash, at a post office? Their TV licence? Their mortgage? Their rent? How many people as a proportion of the UK population operate only in cash – and how exactly do they string a life together?Driver said:
Absolutely - I know a few people who like to use cash for budgeting because paying by card doesn't feel like spending money.ManchesterKurt said:
Because there will always be a proportion of the population that require cash as they are unable to deal with more modern ways of budgeting.Anabobazina said:
Why? Would you allow people to pay in postal orders or cheques or similarly obsolete payments?Selebian said:
If there's contactless (hell, even chip and pin) then I'm not too bothered about what else is available. Cash for those who prefer/need that should also be provided, I think.Pulpstar said:
Contactless is great. Phone apps for carparking just shouldn't be allowed. For one thing your debit card won't go out of battery for that 1% of time your phone is out of juice and you can't phone tap the contactless.Tres said:Council round here has moved to phone apps entirely for parking, even though they had machines available which could take contactless payments. Bonkers.
The frustrating thing is that any halfway decent parking app standard would be more convenient for most. Car reg(s) stored in app. Location services pinpoint the car park (or some NFC thing to swipe at worst). Choose your time and go, automatic payment. Extendable without returning to the car park. No queues. Many benefits. The current shit-show is not necessary.
My wife had a very severe stroke 5 years ago and has left her with tremendous mental issues, she cannot understand the difference between up or down, left or right, forwards or backwards. She cannot unlock doors, she cannot leave the house alone.
But she does have a level of financial independence as each month we take some money out of her bank and over the month she manages her spend as she can touch, feel and see her money.
My wife could not deal with a card (if nothing else her eye sight is so poor she cannot see the numbers on the keypads), take away cash and you take away about the only thing in her life that she has any level of independence over.
My wife may be a very extreme case, but there are probably far more people at that end of the spectrum than you would imagine.
Obviously, people who don't need to worry about having month left at the end of the money can merrily tap away.
You can call me a liar if you want.
So if no one is saying you have to be made to use cash...why are you so fervent on stopping those that want the option to continue having the option to use cash?
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2022/aug/18/uk-cashless-society-a-step-closer-as-more-than-23m-people-abandon-coins
"During 2021 there were 23.1 million consumers who used cash only once a month or not at all" is the quote... once or not at all. Rarely is not once
(And why do you always sound so angry in your posts?)
A classic sign that you have lost the argument.
What vitriolic nonsense.
Again, I haven't said that we should ban cash, simply that if it gets to a position where very few transactions are made in cash we will have to have a national policy debate about it.
That is the reality.
In 20 years, do you still expect people to be counting out cash and coins at Tescos? Rich, or poor? If so, how prevalent do you think that behaviour is likely to be?0
This discussion has been closed.