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If I could turn back time – politicalbetting.com

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  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,188
    Two thoughts on this.

    Most people's lifestyles benefit from extra daylight in the early evening than early morning.

    When people consider this issue they think of the December when there isn't enough daylight to cover a full working day, and not November, February and March when there's more daylight to play with.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,679
    Natural light in the morning is very good for mental health. If you go to work in the dark and are then stuck inside all day it's not great. I don't see the benefit of lighter evenings instead.

    You could say none of this matters as we* can all choose how we want to organise our time. However there are some who think that having lighter evenings would be a boon for the tourism sector and also there is pressure within the single market for the same timezone. Is that deal going to get done between Dublin and Athens if the former have already gone home for the day? It ignores the point that the daylight hours must be about 2 hours apart.

    * schools, businesses etc
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,197
    Police investigating SNP finances examining high value transactions including vehicle purchases
    Senior figures have been quizzed by detectives about items of spending and also gifts dating back to 2018 as part of the investigation codenamed Operation Branchform.

    Crown prosecutors are now directing the probe which was triggered by at least 19 criminal complaints that £600,000 of donations to a “ring-fenced” referendum fund had been misappropriated.

    The Sunday Mail can reveal how officers investigating £600,000 fraud allegations at the SNP are probing major transactions.
    It has also emerged details of Peter Murrell’s salary are missing from eight years of SNP accounts.
    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/police-investigating-snp-finances-examining-29550904?int_source=nba
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    boulay said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    DavidL said:

    If I could turn back time

    Betting would be a lot easier.

    I've just given a promising chap called Bill Gates his first ten thousand dollars investment....
    In 2007 I was doing some consultancy work for a guy in Burford. He was selling his 1960 Bentley Continental Drophead with really nice provenance, it had previously belonged to Terry-Thomas and latterly Lawrence Harvey, he said "it's yours for £7,000". Do I look like a Bentley kind of a guy? I saw it advertised in Motor Sport magazine some months later for £8.5k at a dealers in the New Forest. Last year an example without such an illustrious previous owner history would cost North of £300,000.

    If I could turn back time. Not a Bentley guy?
    I parted out my 993 GT2 because it got stolen, trashed and probably needed 30 or 40 grand's worth of work which I didn't feel like shelling out for at the time. So I was a bit gutted when a few sold for $1m+ some years later. Then, one went for £1.8m at Sotheby's. Granted, that was a low mileage 100 point car in a unique Porsche Exclusive Manufaktur colour but still...

    The wing is now on my polarsilber 993 slicctop though so I'm glad I never sold that.
    A few years ago I tried to replace a car of mine that was my favourite car I had, not the best car but it had emotional pull. I had sold it for £10k in about 2001. I wasn’t amused how much they go for these days so it was an unfulfilled dream.

    This is exactly the same model and spec.

    https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/14747905
    That car is Dura Ace Approved™.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,679
    To make it more popular I would propose we do two things:

    Have the clocks go forward an hour at 16:00 GMT on the final Friday in March

    Have the clocks go back at 02:00 on the final Monday in October

    Doing it on Sundays means people don't really feel the full benefit of the extra hour in bed. Monday would be much more special. And when the clocks go forward an hour you could get the weekend started early.
  • TresTres Posts: 2,671

    Having just watched Aqua - Turn Back Time again it seems to be filmed largely at Bank/Holborn tube stations and there's an awful lot of Gwyneth Paltrow in it.

    Didn't remember that.

    Sliding Doors soundtrack wasn't it?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,188
    edited March 2023

    Natural light in the morning is very good for mental health. If you go to work in the dark and are then stuck inside all day it's not great. I don't see the benefit of lighter evenings instead.

    You could say none of this matters as we* can all choose how we want to organise our time. However there are some who think that having lighter evenings would be a boon for the tourism sector and also there is pressure within the single market for the same timezone. Is that deal going to get done between Dublin and Athens if the former have already gone home for the day? It ignores the point that the daylight hours must be about 2 hours apart.

    * schools, businesses etc

    The argument is that light in the early evening when you are out and about is more useful than light in the early morning when you're still at home or possibly still in bed.

    Also more people's core working hours are nine to five, which implies noon at one than eight to four with noon at 12.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,497

    boulay said:

    DavidL said:

    If I could turn back time

    Betting would be a lot easier.

    I've just given a promising chap called Bill Gates his first ten thousand dollars investment....
    In 2007 I was doing some consultancy work for a guy in Burford. He was selling his 1960 Bentley Continental Drophead with really nice provenance, it had previously belonged to Terry-Thomas and latterly Lawrence Harvey, he said "it's yours for £7,000". Do I look like a Bentley kind of a guy? I saw it advertised in Motor Sport magazine some months later for £8.5k at a dealers in the New Forest. Last year an example without such an illustrious previous owner history would cost North of £300,000.

    If I could turn back time. Not a Bentley guy?
    I could have picked up a numbered Banksy print or probably an original artwork before he was well known, they used to be sold online, but in those days a few hundred quid was well beyond what we could afford.
    Could be worse, about 25 years ago I shelled out a lot of money for a Rolf Harris original, watched it’s value go up nicely and then one day…
    The first publicised purchase with Bitcoin was 30,000 bitcoin for a pizza.
    Just think what that pizza must be worth now. Shame they ate it.
    Must have had gold flakes atop the pineapple.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,284
    With family in Bangkok, so we’ve often discussed moving to Thailand permanently as we are both feeling the cold more and more now. Younger son reckons he could get ‘care’ for me, much more cheaply than here, and he’s probably right.
    However, Mrs C is opposed to the idea basically because of the heat during part of the year and it was over 40.deg C for quite awhile in the day time last year!
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,356

    I see the governments response to a failing police and judicial system is to criminalise a load more ordinary youngsters experimenting with the drug of the day. Bound to help the police and courts........

    Please, please can we have left hand thinking about right hand a bit more. If we want more people to be categorised as criminals (not really sure why we should) then we need more police, lawyers, magistrates, probation officers etc too. Or decriminalise something else.

    As much as many of the police's problems are self inflicted they cannot be expected to succeed in an environment where every year more and more offences are created, laws become more complex, yet they are given no new resources.

    It all whiffs of Blairs "frogmarching yobs to the cashpoint" doesn't it?

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/mar/25/rishi-sunak-immediate-justice-scheme-to-combat-antisocial-behaviour

    I do hope that Starmer will be able to come up with some better ideas on criminal justice. Its all a bit crap at the moment.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,356

    With family in Bangkok, so we’ve often discussed moving to Thailand permanently as we are both feeling the cold more and more now. Younger son reckons he could get ‘care’ for me, much more cheaply than here, and he’s probably right.
    However, Mrs C is opposed to the idea basically because of the heat during part of the year and it was over 40.deg C for quite awhile in the day time last year!

    I have a (white) retired patient with a significant disability who has moved to India for just that reason. He can hire a couple of live in staff much cheaper than a nursing home here.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,161
    It was noticeable in Barcelona that at 9am hardly anyone stirred but at 11pm the place was buzzing. People respond to Berlin time by doing everything two hours later. Must be even more extreme out in the wild west like Corunna.

    The obvious solution to the clock problem is to work less and sleep longer in the winter and do the opposite in the summer. We all need to get in touch with our inner peasant.

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,207
    Foxy said:

    I see the governments response to a failing police and judicial system is to criminalise a load more ordinary youngsters experimenting with the drug of the day. Bound to help the police and courts........

    Please, please can we have left hand thinking about right hand a bit more. If we want more people to be categorised as criminals (not really sure why we should) then we need more police, lawyers, magistrates, probation officers etc too. Or decriminalise something else.

    As much as many of the police's problems are self inflicted they cannot be expected to succeed in an environment where every year more and more offences are created, laws become more complex, yet they are given no new resources.

    It all whiffs of Blairs "frogmarching yobs to the cashpoint" doesn't it?

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/mar/25/rishi-sunak-immediate-justice-scheme-to-combat-antisocial-behaviour

    I do hope that Starmer will be able to come up with some better ideas on criminal justice. Its all a bit crap at the moment.
    Fear not. The Labour Manifesto will criminalise wearing a loud shirt in a built up area...
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,679
    My Aunty used to have Nitrous Oxide when she went to the dentist. I don't know how much it is used nowadays. Is it ever given to children?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,356

    It was noticeable in Barcelona that at 9am hardly anyone stirred but at 11pm the place was buzzing. People respond to Berlin time by doing everything two hours later. Must be even more extreme out in the wild west like Corunna.

    The obvious solution to the clock problem is to work less and sleep longer in the winter and do the opposite in the summer. We all need to get in touch with our inner peasant.

    Though I do the opposite, and work extra weekends in winter, so I can have more free time in the summer. Not on home match days obviously.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,497
    Foxy said:

    I see the governments response to a failing police and judicial system is to criminalise a load more ordinary youngsters experimenting with the drug of the day. Bound to help the police and courts........

    Please, please can we have left hand thinking about right hand a bit more. If we want more people to be categorised as criminals (not really sure why we should) then we need more police, lawyers, magistrates, probation officers etc too. Or decriminalise something else.

    As much as many of the police's problems are self inflicted they cannot be expected to succeed in an environment where every year more and more offences are created, laws become more complex, yet they are given no new resources.

    It all whiffs of Blairs "frogmarching yobs to the cashpoint" doesn't it?

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/mar/25/rishi-sunak-immediate-justice-scheme-to-combat-antisocial-behaviour

    I do hope that Starmer will be able to come up with some better ideas on criminal justice. Its all a bit crap at the moment.
    Thats a separate pilot scheme, I don't actually mind such trials even if I don't think they will work as long as the outcomes are judged on results rather than predetermined by ideology.

    My complaint was on the criminalisation of nitrous oxide.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,356

    My Aunty used to have Nitrous Oxide when she went to the dentist. I don't know how much it is used nowadays. Is it ever given to children?

    It is being restricted more than in the past, due to effects on staff.

    https://www.england.nhs.uk/long-read/guidance-on-minimising-time-weighted-exposure-to-nitrous-oxide-in-healthcare-settings-in-england/
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,411

    Foxy said:

    I see the governments response to a failing police and judicial system is to criminalise a load more ordinary youngsters experimenting with the drug of the day. Bound to help the police and courts........

    Please, please can we have left hand thinking about right hand a bit more. If we want more people to be categorised as criminals (not really sure why we should) then we need more police, lawyers, magistrates, probation officers etc too. Or decriminalise something else.

    As much as many of the police's problems are self inflicted they cannot be expected to succeed in an environment where every year more and more offences are created, laws become more complex, yet they are given no new resources.

    It all whiffs of Blairs "frogmarching yobs to the cashpoint" doesn't it?

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/mar/25/rishi-sunak-immediate-justice-scheme-to-combat-antisocial-behaviour

    I do hope that Starmer will be able to come up with some better ideas on criminal justice. Its all a bit crap at the moment.
    Fear not. The Labour Manifesto will criminalise wearing a loud shirt in a built up area...
    What about possessing an offensive wife?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,497

    Foxy said:

    I see the governments response to a failing police and judicial system is to criminalise a load more ordinary youngsters experimenting with the drug of the day. Bound to help the police and courts........

    Please, please can we have left hand thinking about right hand a bit more. If we want more people to be categorised as criminals (not really sure why we should) then we need more police, lawyers, magistrates, probation officers etc too. Or decriminalise something else.

    As much as many of the police's problems are self inflicted they cannot be expected to succeed in an environment where every year more and more offences are created, laws become more complex, yet they are given no new resources.

    It all whiffs of Blairs "frogmarching yobs to the cashpoint" doesn't it?

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/mar/25/rishi-sunak-immediate-justice-scheme-to-combat-antisocial-behaviour

    I do hope that Starmer will be able to come up with some better ideas on criminal justice. Its all a bit crap at the moment.
    Fear not. The Labour Manifesto will criminalise wearing a loud shirt in a built up area...
    What about possessing an offensive wife?
    Bringing up Gove's historic crimes is a cheap shot.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,284
    Foxy said:

    My Aunty used to have Nitrous Oxide when she went to the dentist. I don't know how much it is used nowadays. Is it ever given to children?

    It is being restricted more than in the past, due to effects on staff.

    https://www.england.nhs.uk/long-read/guidance-on-minimising-time-weighted-exposure-to-nitrous-oxide-in-healthcare-settings-in-england/
    I seem to recall it being discussed positively during chemistry lessons and negatively during biology!
    My particular bugbear as a care home inspector was liquid nitrogen.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,139
    On yesterday's run. I passed through Honor Oak / Forest Hill, only to find a road was blocked by a couple of large police vans. and a cordon of police ahead. Behind the police were a load of protestors and flags. Most were apparently counter-protestors to a few right-wing ****s.

    I asked an idling copper what was going on, and apparently it was a protest about a drag artist reading at a pub.

    Lots of noise, lots of placards, and a couple of very friendly policemen. But goodness knows how much policing the events cost.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,411

    Foxy said:

    I see the governments response to a failing police and judicial system is to criminalise a load more ordinary youngsters experimenting with the drug of the day. Bound to help the police and courts........

    Please, please can we have left hand thinking about right hand a bit more. If we want more people to be categorised as criminals (not really sure why we should) then we need more police, lawyers, magistrates, probation officers etc too. Or decriminalise something else.

    As much as many of the police's problems are self inflicted they cannot be expected to succeed in an environment where every year more and more offences are created, laws become more complex, yet they are given no new resources.

    It all whiffs of Blairs "frogmarching yobs to the cashpoint" doesn't it?

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/mar/25/rishi-sunak-immediate-justice-scheme-to-combat-antisocial-behaviour

    I do hope that Starmer will be able to come up with some better ideas on criminal justice. Its all a bit crap at the moment.
    Thats a separate pilot scheme, I don't actually mind such trials even if I don't think they will work as long as the outcomes are judged on results rather than predetermined by ideology.

    My complaint was on the criminalisation of nitrous oxide.
    It’s the logic of the criminalisation of all non-prescribed drugs.

    It seems that the anti-drug message has put a serious chunk of teenagers off alcohol. My daughters see alcohol as a drug and scuzzy etc. The eldest has also pointed out how cheap a high end resteraunt is without alcohol or extras.

    Meanwhile the NU10K get private prescriptions for what ever uppers or downers they require. And then get them converted into NHS prescriptions. So you and I are subsidising drugs for our betters….
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,028

    Foxy said:

    I see the governments response to a failing police and judicial system is to criminalise a load more ordinary youngsters experimenting with the drug of the day. Bound to help the police and courts........

    Please, please can we have left hand thinking about right hand a bit more. If we want more people to be categorised as criminals (not really sure why we should) then we need more police, lawyers, magistrates, probation officers etc too. Or decriminalise something else.

    As much as many of the police's problems are self inflicted they cannot be expected to succeed in an environment where every year more and more offences are created, laws become more complex, yet they are given no new resources.

    It all whiffs of Blairs "frogmarching yobs to the cashpoint" doesn't it?

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/mar/25/rishi-sunak-immediate-justice-scheme-to-combat-antisocial-behaviour

    I do hope that Starmer will be able to come up with some better ideas on criminal justice. Its all a bit crap at the moment.
    Fear not. The Labour Manifesto will criminalise wearing a loud shirt in a built up area...
    What about possessing an offensive wife?
    Bringing up Gove's historic crimes is a cheap shot.
    Speak for yourself, it's Vine with me.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,356

    On yesterday's run. I passed through Honor Oak / Forest Hill, only to find a road was blocked by a couple of large police vans. and a cordon of police ahead. Behind the police were a load of protestors and flags. Most were apparently counter-protestors to a few right-wing ****s.

    I asked an idling copper what was going on, and apparently it was a protest about a drag artist reading at a pub.

    Lots of noise, lots of placards, and a couple of very friendly policemen. But goodness knows how much policing the events cost.

    It sounds a bit like this event:

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/turning-point-drag-storytime-protest-east-dulwich-pub-b1066453.html

    All aboard the outrage bus, first stop the pub.
  • TresTres Posts: 2,671
    Our Tory MP who is very keen on legislation to limit protests turned up an anti ULEX protest at the local high street yesterday.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,284

    Foxy said:

    I see the governments response to a failing police and judicial system is to criminalise a load more ordinary youngsters experimenting with the drug of the day. Bound to help the police and courts........

    Please, please can we have left hand thinking about right hand a bit more. If we want more people to be categorised as criminals (not really sure why we should) then we need more police, lawyers, magistrates, probation officers etc too. Or decriminalise something else.

    As much as many of the police's problems are self inflicted they cannot be expected to succeed in an environment where every year more and more offences are created, laws become more complex, yet they are given no new resources.

    It all whiffs of Blairs "frogmarching yobs to the cashpoint" doesn't it?

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/mar/25/rishi-sunak-immediate-justice-scheme-to-combat-antisocial-behaviour

    I do hope that Starmer will be able to come up with some better ideas on criminal justice. Its all a bit crap at the moment.
    Thats a separate pilot scheme, I don't actually mind such trials even if I don't think they will work as long as the outcomes are judged on results rather than predetermined by ideology.

    My complaint was on the criminalisation of nitrous oxide.
    It’s the logic of the criminalisation of all non-prescribed drugs.

    It seems that the anti-drug message has put a serious chunk of teenagers off alcohol. My daughters see alcohol as a drug and scuzzy etc. The eldest has also pointed out how cheap a high end resteraunt is without alcohol or extras.

    Meanwhile the NU10K get private prescriptions for what ever uppers or downers they require. And then get them converted into NHS prescriptions. So you and I are subsidising drugs for our betters….
    GP’s converting private prescriptions into NHS ones is,IIRC, against their terms of service.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,679

    Foxy said:

    I see the governments response to a failing police and judicial system is to criminalise a load more ordinary youngsters experimenting with the drug of the day. Bound to help the police and courts........

    Please, please can we have left hand thinking about right hand a bit more. If we want more people to be categorised as criminals (not really sure why we should) then we need more police, lawyers, magistrates, probation officers etc too. Or decriminalise something else.

    As much as many of the police's problems are self inflicted they cannot be expected to succeed in an environment where every year more and more offences are created, laws become more complex, yet they are given no new resources.

    It all whiffs of Blairs "frogmarching yobs to the cashpoint" doesn't it?

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/mar/25/rishi-sunak-immediate-justice-scheme-to-combat-antisocial-behaviour

    I do hope that Starmer will be able to come up with some better ideas on criminal justice. Its all a bit crap at the moment.
    Thats a separate pilot scheme, I don't actually mind such trials even if I don't think they will work as long as the outcomes are judged on results rather than predetermined by ideology.

    My complaint was on the criminalisation of nitrous oxide.
    It’s the logic of the criminalisation of all non-prescribed drugs.

    It seems that the anti-drug message has put a serious chunk of teenagers off alcohol. My daughters see alcohol as a drug and scuzzy etc. The eldest has also pointed out how cheap a high end resteraunt is without alcohol or extras.

    Meanwhile the NU10K get private prescriptions for what ever uppers or downers they require. And then get them converted into NHS prescriptions. So you and I are subsidising drugs for our betters….
    Who are the NU10K? The latest band?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,598
    edited March 2023
    malcolmg said:

    Labour surge Klaxon rebuttal, unless they are all paying a penny.......
    Since the independence referendum, Labour’s membership revenue has dropped by 30%, and 2021 accounts highlight only £80k in subs! https://dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/scottish-labour-crisis-after-leaked-23431174

    TBF that's Slab only and in 2021 - though indyref was soon followed by Corbymania which must complicate things in that it presumably went up for a bit.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,139
    Foxy said:

    On yesterday's run. I passed through Honor Oak / Forest Hill, only to find a road was blocked by a couple of large police vans. and a cordon of police ahead. Behind the police were a load of protestors and flags. Most were apparently counter-protestors to a few right-wing ****s.

    I asked an idling copper what was going on, and apparently it was a protest about a drag artist reading at a pub.

    Lots of noise, lots of placards, and a couple of very friendly policemen. But goodness knows how much policing the events cost.

    It sounds a bit like this event:

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/turning-point-drag-storytime-protest-east-dulwich-pub-b1066453.html

    All aboard the outrage bus, first stop the pub.
    Sounds like it was a repeat of this event last month:
    https://southwarknews.co.uk/news/crime/five-arrests-at-protest-over-kids-drag-queen-storytelling-at-the-honor-oak-pub/

    The odious Calvin Robinson was apparently there last month with Turning Point UK, so I pretty much automatically side with his opponents.... :)

    I was quite amused to stumble across it - the run was part of my plan to run from Cambridge to Brighton.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,028
    dixiedean said:

    This very much tallies with my experience.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/mar/26/children-put-at-risk-as-nhs-autism-assessments-are-cut-back

    It isn't just ASD either. It is right across diagnostic services.
    Even with a diagnosis and an ECHP (a legally enforceable document, not a wishlist), there aren't the school places, or funding for staffing. And even where there is, the pay rate is making it nigh impossible to meet statutory obligations.

    That's certainly the case here. Staffordshire have quite openly redefined 'one to one support' as 'there will be a TA somewhere in the room for up to five children' because they simply cannot get enough staff.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,356
    edited March 2023

    Foxy said:

    I see the governments response to a failing police and judicial system is to criminalise a load more ordinary youngsters experimenting with the drug of the day. Bound to help the police and courts........

    Please, please can we have left hand thinking about right hand a bit more. If we want more people to be categorised as criminals (not really sure why we should) then we need more police, lawyers, magistrates, probation officers etc too. Or decriminalise something else.

    As much as many of the police's problems are self inflicted they cannot be expected to succeed in an environment where every year more and more offences are created, laws become more complex, yet they are given no new resources.

    It all whiffs of Blairs "frogmarching yobs to the cashpoint" doesn't it?

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/mar/25/rishi-sunak-immediate-justice-scheme-to-combat-antisocial-behaviour

    I do hope that Starmer will be able to come up with some better ideas on criminal justice. Its all a bit crap at the moment.
    Thats a separate pilot scheme, I don't actually mind such trials even if I don't think they will work as long as the outcomes are judged on results rather than predetermined by ideology.

    My complaint was on the criminalisation of nitrous oxide.
    It’s the logic of the criminalisation of all non-prescribed drugs.

    It seems that the anti-drug message has put a serious chunk of teenagers off alcohol. My daughters see alcohol as a drug and scuzzy etc. The eldest has also pointed out how cheap a high end resteraunt is without alcohol or extras.

    Meanwhile the NU10K get private prescriptions for what ever uppers or downers they require. And then get them converted into NHS prescriptions. So you and I are subsidising drugs for our betters….
    GP’s converting private prescriptions into NHS ones is,IIRC, against their terms of service.
    It is, though continuing private prescriptions as NHS repeat ones is commonplace, unless outside formulary.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,679

    Having just watched Aqua - Turn Back Time again it seems to be filmed largely at Bank/Holborn tube stations and there's an awful lot of Gwyneth Paltrow in it.

    Didn't remember that.

    I remember it being a bit of a change of tempo after the very successful Barbie Girl/Dr Jones. I don't remember them having any more hits after that.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,751
    Foxy said:

    I see the governments response to a failing police and judicial system is to criminalise a load more ordinary youngsters experimenting with the drug of the day. Bound to help the police and courts........

    Please, please can we have left hand thinking about right hand a bit more. If we want more people to be categorised as criminals (not really sure why we should) then we need more police, lawyers, magistrates, probation officers etc too. Or decriminalise something else.

    As much as many of the police's problems are self inflicted they cannot be expected to succeed in an environment where every year more and more offences are created, laws become more complex, yet they are given no new resources.

    It all whiffs of Blairs "frogmarching yobs to the cashpoint" doesn't it?

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/mar/25/rishi-sunak-immediate-justice-scheme-to-combat-antisocial-behaviour

    I do hope that Starmer will be able to come up with some better ideas on criminal justice. Its all a bit crap at the moment.
    Starmer has said Thatcher was right on law and order. Job done surely?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,598
    edited March 2023

    Foxy said:

    On yesterday's run. I passed through Honor Oak / Forest Hill, only to find a road was blocked by a couple of large police vans. and a cordon of police ahead. Behind the police were a load of protestors and flags. Most were apparently counter-protestors to a few right-wing ****s.

    I asked an idling copper what was going on, and apparently it was a protest about a drag artist reading at a pub.

    Lots of noise, lots of placards, and a couple of very friendly policemen. But goodness knows how much policing the events cost.

    It sounds a bit like this event:

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/turning-point-drag-storytime-protest-east-dulwich-pub-b1066453.html

    All aboard the outrage bus, first stop the pub.
    Sounds like it was a repeat of this event last month:
    https://southwarknews.co.uk/news/crime/five-arrests-at-protest-over-kids-drag-queen-storytelling-at-the-honor-oak-pub/

    The odious Calvin Robinson was apparently there last month with Turning Point UK, so I pretty much automatically side with his opponents.... :)

    I was quite amused to stumble across it - the run was part of my plan to run from Cambridge to Brighton.
    Good grief. I do hope nobody tells Mr Robinson about Christmas pantomimes.

    Edit: it must frighten the children. What a thing to do.

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,356
    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    On yesterday's run. I passed through Honor Oak / Forest Hill, only to find a road was blocked by a couple of large police vans. and a cordon of police ahead. Behind the police were a load of protestors and flags. Most were apparently counter-protestors to a few right-wing ****s.

    I asked an idling copper what was going on, and apparently it was a protest about a drag artist reading at a pub.

    Lots of noise, lots of placards, and a couple of very friendly policemen. But goodness knows how much policing the events cost.

    It sounds a bit like this event:

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/turning-point-drag-storytime-protest-east-dulwich-pub-b1066453.html

    All aboard the outrage bus, first stop the pub.
    Sounds like it was a repeat of this event last month:
    https://southwarknews.co.uk/news/crime/five-arrests-at-protest-over-kids-drag-queen-storytelling-at-the-honor-oak-pub/

    The odious Calvin Robinson was apparently there last month with Turning Point UK, so I pretty much automatically side with his opponents.... :)

    I was quite amused to stumble across it - the run was part of my plan to run from Cambridge to Brighton.
    Good grief. I do hope nobody tells Mr Robinson about Christmas pantomimes.

    Oh no they won't!
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,411

    Foxy said:

    I see the governments response to a failing police and judicial system is to criminalise a load more ordinary youngsters experimenting with the drug of the day. Bound to help the police and courts........

    Please, please can we have left hand thinking about right hand a bit more. If we want more people to be categorised as criminals (not really sure why we should) then we need more police, lawyers, magistrates, probation officers etc too. Or decriminalise something else.

    As much as many of the police's problems are self inflicted they cannot be expected to succeed in an environment where every year more and more offences are created, laws become more complex, yet they are given no new resources.

    It all whiffs of Blairs "frogmarching yobs to the cashpoint" doesn't it?

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/mar/25/rishi-sunak-immediate-justice-scheme-to-combat-antisocial-behaviour

    I do hope that Starmer will be able to come up with some better ideas on criminal justice. Its all a bit crap at the moment.
    Thats a separate pilot scheme, I don't actually mind such trials even if I don't think they will work as long as the outcomes are judged on results rather than predetermined by ideology.

    My complaint was on the criminalisation of nitrous oxide.
    It’s the logic of the criminalisation of all non-prescribed drugs.

    It seems that the anti-drug message has put a serious chunk of teenagers off alcohol. My daughters see alcohol as a drug and scuzzy etc. The eldest has also pointed out how cheap a high end resteraunt is without alcohol or extras.

    Meanwhile the NU10K get private prescriptions for what ever uppers or downers they require. And then get them converted into NHS prescriptions. So you and I are subsidising drugs for our betters….
    GP’s converting private prescriptions into NHS ones is,IIRC, against their terms of service.
    And yet it happens all the time….
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,139
    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    On yesterday's run. I passed through Honor Oak / Forest Hill, only to find a road was blocked by a couple of large police vans. and a cordon of police ahead. Behind the police were a load of protestors and flags. Most were apparently counter-protestors to a few right-wing ****s.

    I asked an idling copper what was going on, and apparently it was a protest about a drag artist reading at a pub.

    Lots of noise, lots of placards, and a couple of very friendly policemen. But goodness knows how much policing the events cost.

    It sounds a bit like this event:

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/turning-point-drag-storytime-protest-east-dulwich-pub-b1066453.html

    All aboard the outrage bus, first stop the pub.
    Sounds like it was a repeat of this event last month:
    https://southwarknews.co.uk/news/crime/five-arrests-at-protest-over-kids-drag-queen-storytelling-at-the-honor-oak-pub/

    The odious Calvin Robinson was apparently there last month with Turning Point UK, so I pretty much automatically side with his opponents.... :)

    I was quite amused to stumble across it - the run was part of my plan to run from Cambridge to Brighton.
    Good grief. I do hope nobody tells Mr Robinson about Christmas pantomimes.
    Given the amount of child abuse that has historically occurred in all religions, perhaps we should protest against priests reading to kids. They're a much bigger danger - and it's all part of planned indoctrination. ;)
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,411

    Foxy said:

    I see the governments response to a failing police and judicial system is to criminalise a load more ordinary youngsters experimenting with the drug of the day. Bound to help the police and courts........

    Please, please can we have left hand thinking about right hand a bit more. If we want more people to be categorised as criminals (not really sure why we should) then we need more police, lawyers, magistrates, probation officers etc too. Or decriminalise something else.

    As much as many of the police's problems are self inflicted they cannot be expected to succeed in an environment where every year more and more offences are created, laws become more complex, yet they are given no new resources.

    It all whiffs of Blairs "frogmarching yobs to the cashpoint" doesn't it?

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/mar/25/rishi-sunak-immediate-justice-scheme-to-combat-antisocial-behaviour

    I do hope that Starmer will be able to come up with some better ideas on criminal justice. Its all a bit crap at the moment.
    Thats a separate pilot scheme, I don't actually mind such trials even if I don't think they will work as long as the outcomes are judged on results rather than predetermined by ideology.

    My complaint was on the criminalisation of nitrous oxide.
    It’s the logic of the criminalisation of all non-prescribed drugs.

    It seems that the anti-drug message has put a serious chunk of teenagers off alcohol. My daughters see alcohol as a drug and scuzzy etc. The eldest has also pointed out how cheap a high end resteraunt is without alcohol or extras.

    Meanwhile the NU10K get private prescriptions for what ever uppers or downers they require. And then get them converted into NHS prescriptions. So you and I are subsidising drugs for our betters….
    Who are the NU10K? The latest band?
    New Upper 10,000 - the vaguely useless people who replaced the vaguely useless aristocracy in running the country.

    6 figure salary, and the penalty for failure is a better job in another part of the system.

  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,284

    Foxy said:

    I see the governments response to a failing police and judicial system is to criminalise a load more ordinary youngsters experimenting with the drug of the day. Bound to help the police and courts........

    Please, please can we have left hand thinking about right hand a bit more. If we want more people to be categorised as criminals (not really sure why we should) then we need more police, lawyers, magistrates, probation officers etc too. Or decriminalise something else.

    As much as many of the police's problems are self inflicted they cannot be expected to succeed in an environment where every year more and more offences are created, laws become more complex, yet they are given no new resources.

    It all whiffs of Blairs "frogmarching yobs to the cashpoint" doesn't it?

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/mar/25/rishi-sunak-immediate-justice-scheme-to-combat-antisocial-behaviour

    I do hope that Starmer will be able to come up with some better ideas on criminal justice. Its all a bit crap at the moment.
    Thats a separate pilot scheme, I don't actually mind such trials even if I don't think they will work as long as the outcomes are judged on results rather than predetermined by ideology.

    My complaint was on the criminalisation of nitrous oxide.
    It’s the logic of the criminalisation of all non-prescribed drugs.

    It seems that the anti-drug message has put a serious chunk of teenagers off alcohol. My daughters see alcohol as a drug and scuzzy etc. The eldest has also pointed out how cheap a high end resteraunt is without alcohol or extras.

    Meanwhile the NU10K get private prescriptions for what ever uppers or downers they require. And then get them converted into NHS prescriptions. So you and I are subsidising drugs for our betters….
    GP’s converting private prescriptions into NHS ones is,IIRC, against their terms of service.
    And yet it happens all the time….
    Very difficult to police. Who is going to talk?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,356

    The thing about NO abuse is that I keep on seeing discarded cylinders on the ground in random places. If they want to damage themselves doing drugs, then the least the little sh*ts could do is pick up their litter ... ;)

    Spinal cord injury is increasingly common now from nitrous oxide:

    https://pn.bmj.com/content/early/2023/02/03/pn-2022-003631

    From the article it seems fairly common to use dozens or even hundreds of cannisters per session, so not surprised it is causing litter.

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,028
    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    This very much tallies with my experience.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/mar/26/children-put-at-risk-as-nhs-autism-assessments-are-cut-back

    It isn't just ASD either. It is right across diagnostic services.
    Even with a diagnosis and an ECHP (a legally enforceable document, not a wishlist), there aren't the school places, or funding for staffing. And even where there is, the pay rate is making it nigh impossible to meet statutory obligations.

    That's certainly the case here. Staffordshire have quite openly redefined 'one to one support' as 'there will be a TA somewhere in the room for up to five children' because they simply cannot get enough staff.
    Adding "where possible" on to the "1 to 1 support" on risk assessments.
    You can't do that. If you are mandated and funded for 1 to 1 it's a legal requirement. And therefore needs to be paid for at the market rate. Not minimum wage.
    It's rather like saying that no one will insure my car for the laughably low price I'm prepared to pay. So I'm going to drive regardless.
    I know. And so do they. But they're not willing to do anything about it. I'm not even sure they can afford to.

    To give you some idea of how little room for manouvere they have, they advertised a job managing their social care team (repeat, managing) for £20,000 which would be reduced pro rata as it's mornings only.

    And then were surprised when they had no applicants...
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,163

    Foxy said:

    I see the governments response to a failing police and judicial system is to criminalise a load more ordinary youngsters experimenting with the drug of the day. Bound to help the police and courts........

    Please, please can we have left hand thinking about right hand a bit more. If we want more people to be categorised as criminals (not really sure why we should) then we need more police, lawyers, magistrates, probation officers etc too. Or decriminalise something else.

    As much as many of the police's problems are self inflicted they cannot be expected to succeed in an environment where every year more and more offences are created, laws become more complex, yet they are given no new resources.

    It all whiffs of Blairs "frogmarching yobs to the cashpoint" doesn't it?

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/mar/25/rishi-sunak-immediate-justice-scheme-to-combat-antisocial-behaviour

    I do hope that Starmer will be able to come up with some better ideas on criminal justice. Its all a bit crap at the moment.
    Thats a separate pilot scheme, I don't actually mind such trials even if I don't think they will work as long as the outcomes are judged on results rather than predetermined by ideology.

    My complaint was on the criminalisation of nitrous oxide.
    It’s the logic of the criminalisation of all non-prescribed drugs.

    It seems that the anti-drug message has put a serious chunk of teenagers off alcohol. My daughters see alcohol as a drug and scuzzy etc. The eldest has also pointed out how cheap a high end resteraunt is without alcohol or extras.

    Meanwhile the NU10K get private prescriptions for what ever uppers or downers they require. And then get them converted into NHS prescriptions. So you and I are subsidising drugs for our betters….
    Who are the NU10K? The latest band?
    New Upper 10,000 - the vaguely useless people who replaced the vaguely useless aristocracy in running the country.

    6 figure salary, and the penalty for failure is a better job in another part of the system.

    The useless aristocracy were at least tied to the land, and so had a loyalty to the country that I feel is missing now.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,598
    Foxy said:

    The thing about NO abuse is that I keep on seeing discarded cylinders on the ground in random places. If they want to damage themselves doing drugs, then the least the little sh*ts could do is pick up their litter ... ;)

    Spinal cord injury is increasingly common now from nitrous oxide:

    https://pn.bmj.com/content/early/2023/02/03/pn-2022-003631

    From the article it seems fairly common to use dozens or even hundreds of cannisters per session, so not surprised it is causing litter.

    Is that just something that mimics B12 deficiency, or does it actually cause B12 deficiency? In which case it ties in very nicely with the discussion last night!
  • Tres said:

    Our Tory MP who is very keen on legislation to limit protests turned up an anti ULEX protest at the local high street yesterday.

    Yes of course. His protest was perfectly legal, a shining example of democracy in action. It is the people who disagree with him who are illegal, antidemocratic, traitorous even.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,598
    edited March 2023
    Farooq said:

    @Farooq FPT

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Well... for starters there's no guarantee Biden will even be alive in November 2024.

    He is three years past average life expectancy for a US male so anything he gets from here is a bonus..

    As an 80 yo US male, he has a life expectancy of another 7 years. Overall life expectancy is misleading (very) for someone who is already elderly.
    If you're fit and healthy, you should make it into your 90s, so long as dementia/ alzheimer's don't rear their ugly head, or you succumb to cancer. More likely in your 80s but far from inevitable.

    What you really want is to be pretty good, except for the usual wear and tear, and then go suddenly in your late 90s aka DofE or HMQ.
    Did you know that, on average, vegetarians live years longer than meat eaters?
    Only if they get enough protein to match that lost from meat from other sources
    Well obviously they do because they literally do live longer.
    Perhaps meat eaters aren't getting enough protein? Idk
    The last time I had a discussion on this topic with (afaicr) Foxy, I looked at the research, and actually it comes out overall that morbidity in veggies and non-veggies is the same. Which given that vegetarianism is largely a middle-class preoccupation, so you can consider your vegetarian group to have considerable additional benefits, vs. the meat eaters, is not a great showing for vegetarianism.
    Aye, you're not wrong. It's not the vegetarianism that is the causal driver of longer life. I was deliberately allowing a misleading inference to form in the mind of the reader without actually lying ("doing a HYUFD").
    My main aim was to wind Casino up by calling back to the earlier vegetarianism discussion and implying a major health benefit to quitting meat.
    Especially woke meat such as venison. Must remember that next time I am in London and want a woke dinner - Rules game pie will do nicely (though last time it was whitebait and Belted Galloway beef, I forget the cut).
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,028
    Carnyx said:

    Farooq said:

    @Farooq FPT

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Well... for starters there's no guarantee Biden will even be alive in November 2024.

    He is three years past average life expectancy for a US male so anything he gets from here is a bonus..

    As an 80 yo US male, he has a life expectancy of another 7 years. Overall life expectancy is misleading (very) for someone who is already elderly.
    If you're fit and healthy, you should make it into your 90s, so long as dementia/ alzheimer's don't rear their ugly head, or you succumb to cancer. More likely in your 80s but far from inevitable.

    What you really want is to be pretty good, except for the usual wear and tear, and then go suddenly in your late 90s aka DofE or HMQ.
    Did you know that, on average, vegetarians live years longer than meat eaters?
    Only if they get enough protein to match that lost from meat from other sources
    Well obviously they do because they literally do live longer.
    Perhaps meat eaters aren't getting enough protein? Idk
    The last time I had a discussion on this topic with (afaicr) Foxy, I looked at the research, and actually it comes out overall that morbidity in veggies and non-veggies is the same. Which given that vegetarianism is largely a middle-class preoccupation, so you can consider your vegetarian group to have considerable additional benefits, vs. the meat eaters, is not a great showing for vegetarianism.
    Aye, you're not wrong. It's not the vegetarianism that is the causal driver of longer life. I was deliberately allowing a misleading inference to form in the mind of the reader without actually lying ("doing a HYUFD").
    My main aim was to wind Casino up by calling back to the earlier vegetarianism discussion and implying a major health benefit to quitting meat.
    Especially woke meat such as venison. Must remember that next time I am in London and want a woke dinner - Rules game pie will do nicely (though last time it was whitebait and elted Galloway beef, I forget the cut).
    Looks like the cut was a b...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,411

    Foxy said:

    I see the governments response to a failing police and judicial system is to criminalise a load more ordinary youngsters experimenting with the drug of the day. Bound to help the police and courts........

    Please, please can we have left hand thinking about right hand a bit more. If we want more people to be categorised as criminals (not really sure why we should) then we need more police, lawyers, magistrates, probation officers etc too. Or decriminalise something else.

    As much as many of the police's problems are self inflicted they cannot be expected to succeed in an environment where every year more and more offences are created, laws become more complex, yet they are given no new resources.

    It all whiffs of Blairs "frogmarching yobs to the cashpoint" doesn't it?

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/mar/25/rishi-sunak-immediate-justice-scheme-to-combat-antisocial-behaviour

    I do hope that Starmer will be able to come up with some better ideas on criminal justice. Its all a bit crap at the moment.
    Thats a separate pilot scheme, I don't actually mind such trials even if I don't think they will work as long as the outcomes are judged on results rather than predetermined by ideology.

    My complaint was on the criminalisation of nitrous oxide.
    It’s the logic of the criminalisation of all non-prescribed drugs.

    It seems that the anti-drug message has put a serious chunk of teenagers off alcohol. My daughters see alcohol as a drug and scuzzy etc. The eldest has also pointed out how cheap a high end resteraunt is without alcohol or extras.

    Meanwhile the NU10K get private prescriptions for what ever uppers or downers they require. And then get them converted into NHS prescriptions. So you and I are subsidising drugs for our betters….
    GP’s converting private prescriptions into NHS ones is,IIRC, against their terms of service.
    And yet it happens all the time….
    Very difficult to police. Who is going to talk?
    The first time my GP asked for and re-wrote a prescription I’d received from a private doctor I was surprised.

    It seems to be standard behaviour - then again, it is always domain expert consultants writing the initial prescriptions, in the cases I am personally aware of.
  • TresTres Posts: 2,671
    Farooq said:

    @Farooq FPT

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Well... for starters there's no guarantee Biden will even be alive in November 2024.

    He is three years past average life expectancy for a US male so anything he gets from here is a bonus..

    As an 80 yo US male, he has a life expectancy of another 7 years. Overall life expectancy is misleading (very) for someone who is already elderly.
    If you're fit and healthy, you should make it into your 90s, so long as dementia/ alzheimer's don't rear their ugly head, or you succumb to cancer. More likely in your 80s but far from inevitable.

    What you really want is to be pretty good, except for the usual wear and tear, and then go suddenly in your late 90s aka DofE or HMQ.
    Did you know that, on average, vegetarians live years longer than meat eaters?
    Only if they get enough protein to match that lost from meat from other sources
    Well obviously they do because they literally do live longer.
    Perhaps meat eaters aren't getting enough protein? Idk
    The last time I had a discussion on this topic with (afaicr) Foxy, I looked at the research, and actually it comes out overall that morbidity in veggies and non-veggies is the same. Which given that vegetarianism is largely a middle-class preoccupation, so you can consider your vegetarian group to have considerable additional benefits, vs. the meat eaters, is not a great showing for vegetarianism.
    Aye, you're not wrong. It's not the vegetarianism that is the causal driver of longer life. I was deliberately allowing a misleading inference to form in the mind of the reader without actually lying ("doing a HYUFD").
    My main aim was to wind Casino up by calling back to the earlier vegetarianism discussion and implying a major health benefit to quitting meat.
    on the other hand I believe there is a link to obesity levels.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,598
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Farooq said:

    @Farooq FPT

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Well... for starters there's no guarantee Biden will even be alive in November 2024.

    He is three years past average life expectancy for a US male so anything he gets from here is a bonus..

    As an 80 yo US male, he has a life expectancy of another 7 years. Overall life expectancy is misleading (very) for someone who is already elderly.
    If you're fit and healthy, you should make it into your 90s, so long as dementia/ alzheimer's don't rear their ugly head, or you succumb to cancer. More likely in your 80s but far from inevitable.

    What you really want is to be pretty good, except for the usual wear and tear, and then go suddenly in your late 90s aka DofE or HMQ.
    Did you know that, on average, vegetarians live years longer than meat eaters?
    Only if they get enough protein to match that lost from meat from other sources
    Well obviously they do because they literally do live longer.
    Perhaps meat eaters aren't getting enough protein? Idk
    The last time I had a discussion on this topic with (afaicr) Foxy, I looked at the research, and actually it comes out overall that morbidity in veggies and non-veggies is the same. Which given that vegetarianism is largely a middle-class preoccupation, so you can consider your vegetarian group to have considerable additional benefits, vs. the meat eaters, is not a great showing for vegetarianism.
    Aye, you're not wrong. It's not the vegetarianism that is the causal driver of longer life. I was deliberately allowing a misleading inference to form in the mind of the reader without actually lying ("doing a HYUFD").
    My main aim was to wind Casino up by calling back to the earlier vegetarianism discussion and implying a major health benefit to quitting meat.
    Especially woke meat such as venison. Must remember that next time I am in London and want a woke dinner - Rules game pie will do nicely (though last time it was whitebait and elted Galloway beef, I forget the cut).
    Looks like the cut was a b...
    Duly corrected, ta!
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,320
    edited March 2023
    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    This very much tallies with my experience.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/mar/26/children-put-at-risk-as-nhs-autism-assessments-are-cut-back

    It isn't just ASD either. It is right across diagnostic services.
    Even with a diagnosis and an ECHP (a legally enforceable document, not a wishlist), there aren't the school places, or funding for staffing. And even where there is, the pay rate is making it nigh impossible to meet statutory obligations.

    That's certainly the case here. Staffordshire have quite openly redefined 'one to one support' as 'there will be a TA somewhere in the room for up to five children' because they simply cannot get enough staff.
    Adding "where possible" on to the "1 to 1 support" on risk assessments.
    You can't do that. If you are mandated and funded for 1 to 1 it's a legal requirement. And therefore needs to be paid for at the market rate. Not minimum wage.
    It's rather like saying that no one will insure my car for the laughably low price I'm prepared to pay. So I'm going to drive regardless.
    I know. And so do they. But they're not willing to do anything about it. I'm not even sure they can afford to.

    To give you some idea of how little room for manouvere they have, they advertised a job managing their social care team (repeat, managing) for £20,000 which would be reduced pro rata as it's mornings only.

    And then were surprised when they had no applicants...
    Yep.
    Posts in the cushy Public Sector with an easy life and massive pensions increasingly aren't attracting any applicants whatsoever. We've had an HLTA post (19- 21k for 39 weeks pro rata) advertised since September. Not a sausage. Even unqualified.
    It's somewhat mysterious.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,356
    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    The thing about NO abuse is that I keep on seeing discarded cylinders on the ground in random places. If they want to damage themselves doing drugs, then the least the little sh*ts could do is pick up their litter ... ;)

    Spinal cord injury is increasingly common now from nitrous oxide:

    https://pn.bmj.com/content/early/2023/02/03/pn-2022-003631

    From the article it seems fairly common to use dozens or even hundreds of cannisters per session, so not surprised it is causing litter.

    Is that just something that mimics B12 deficiency, or does it actually cause B12 deficiency? In which case it ties in very nicely with the discussion last night!
    It seems that often blood levels of B12 are often within the normal range. It is not something that I have treated, but is seems that the Nitrous oxide prevents its conversion to the active form.



  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,068
    Foxy said:

    Seriously, when is Winter going to piss off so we can get to some warmth for once?

    This one is dragging out more tediously than an AV thread.

    Spring is definitely here. Daffodils out, and my first Tulips. Forsythia in full bloom and flowering currant busting out.

    March has always been "In like a lion, out like a lamb"

    In terms of temperature, I don't think the British Isles can be beat. A bit more predictable would be useful though for planning events, but I do like a marine climate. The thing that I dislike compared to other places that I have lived is the darkness in winter, particularly when working indoors in windowless rooms. People need natural light to stay sane.

    Spring is here
    A-suh-puh-ring is here
    Life is skittles and life is beer
    I think the loveliest time
    Of the year is the spring
    I do, don't you? 'Course you do
    But there's one thing
    That makes spring complete for me
    And makes every Sunday
    A treat for me

    All the world seems in tune
    On a spring afternoon
    When we're poisoning pigeons in the park
    Every Sunday you'll see
    My sweetheart and me
    As we poison the pigeons in the park

    When they see us coming
    The birdies all try and hide
    But they still go for peanuts
    When coated with cyanide
    The sun's shining bright
    Everything seems all right
    When we're poisoning pigeons in the park

    We've gained notoriety
    And caused much anxiety
    In the Audubon Society
    With our games
    They call it impiety
    And lack of propriety
    And quite a variety
    Of unpleasant names
    But it's not against any religion
    To want to dispose of a pigeon

    So if Sunday you're free
    Why don't you come with me
    And we'll poison the pigeons in the park
    And maybe we'll do
    In a squirrel or two
    While we're poisoning pigeons in the park

    We'll murder them all
    Amid laughter and merriment
    Except for the few
    We take home to experiment
    My pulse will be quickenin'
    With each drop of strychnine
    We feed to a pigeon
    (It just takes a smidgin!)
    To poison a pigeon in the park
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,356
    Carnyx said:

    Farooq said:

    @Farooq FPT

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Well... for starters there's no guarantee Biden will even be alive in November 2024.

    He is three years past average life expectancy for a US male so anything he gets from here is a bonus..

    As an 80 yo US male, he has a life expectancy of another 7 years. Overall life expectancy is misleading (very) for someone who is already elderly.
    If you're fit and healthy, you should make it into your 90s, so long as dementia/ alzheimer's don't rear their ugly head, or you succumb to cancer. More likely in your 80s but far from inevitable.

    What you really want is to be pretty good, except for the usual wear and tear, and then go suddenly in your late 90s aka DofE or HMQ.
    Did you know that, on average, vegetarians live years longer than meat eaters?
    Only if they get enough protein to match that lost from meat from other sources
    Well obviously they do because they literally do live longer.
    Perhaps meat eaters aren't getting enough protein? Idk
    The last time I had a discussion on this topic with (afaicr) Foxy, I looked at the research, and actually it comes out overall that morbidity in veggies and non-veggies is the same. Which given that vegetarianism is largely a middle-class preoccupation, so you can consider your vegetarian group to have considerable additional benefits, vs. the meat eaters, is not a great showing for vegetarianism.
    Aye, you're not wrong. It's not the vegetarianism that is the causal driver of longer life. I was deliberately allowing a misleading inference to form in the mind of the reader without actually lying ("doing a HYUFD").
    My main aim was to wind Casino up by calling back to the earlier vegetarianism discussion and implying a major health benefit to quitting meat.
    Especially woke meat such as venison. Must remember that next time I am in London and want a woke dinner - Rules game pie will do nicely (though last time it was whitebait and Belted Galloway beef, I forget the cut).
    If one takes the view of an ethical vegetarian, then a meal of whitebait is a massacre, while a juicy steak is part of a single animal split multiple ways. Clearly more ethical to eat the steak than the whitebait or prawns.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,477
    edited March 2023

    My Aunty used to have Nitrous Oxide when she went to the dentist. I don't know how much it is used nowadays. Is it ever given to children?

    Nitrous oxide is in entonox (aka "gas and air") which is used for on-demand pain relief for women giving birth, or people undergoing uncomfortable procedures like colonoscopies. The patient is given the mask to hold and they can breathe it as and when they like. I believe it is also still carried in ambulances for the same purpose.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,477
    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    This very much tallies with my experience.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/mar/26/children-put-at-risk-as-nhs-autism-assessments-are-cut-back

    It isn't just ASD either. It is right across diagnostic services.
    Even with a diagnosis and an ECHP (a legally enforceable document, not a wishlist), there aren't the school places, or funding for staffing. And even where there is, the pay rate is making it nigh impossible to meet statutory obligations.

    That's certainly the case here. Staffordshire have quite openly redefined 'one to one support' as 'there will be a TA somewhere in the room for up to five children' because they simply cannot get enough staff.
    Adding "where possible" on to the "1 to 1 support" on risk assessments.
    You can't do that. If you are mandated and funded for 1 to 1 it's a legal requirement. And therefore needs to be paid for at the market rate. Not minimum wage.
    It's rather like saying that no one will insure my car for the laughably low price I'm prepared to pay. So I'm going to drive regardless.
    I know. And so do they. But they're not willing to do anything about it. I'm not even sure they can afford to.

    To give you some idea of how little room for manouvere they have, they advertised a job managing their social care team (repeat, managing) for £20,000 which would be reduced pro rata as it's mornings only.

    And then were surprised when they had no applicants...
    Yep.
    Posts in the cushy Public Sector with an easy life and massive pensions increasingly aren't attracting any applicants whatsoever. We've had an HLTA post (19- 21k for 39 weeks pro rata) advertised since September. Not a sausage. Even unqualified.
    It's somewhat mysterious.
    It is the guaranteed knighthood that puts people off public sector jobs. Shades of Sir Jimmy, you see.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,598
    Foxy said:

    Carnyx said:

    Farooq said:

    @Farooq FPT

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Well... for starters there's no guarantee Biden will even be alive in November 2024.

    He is three years past average life expectancy for a US male so anything he gets from here is a bonus..

    As an 80 yo US male, he has a life expectancy of another 7 years. Overall life expectancy is misleading (very) for someone who is already elderly.
    If you're fit and healthy, you should make it into your 90s, so long as dementia/ alzheimer's don't rear their ugly head, or you succumb to cancer. More likely in your 80s but far from inevitable.

    What you really want is to be pretty good, except for the usual wear and tear, and then go suddenly in your late 90s aka DofE or HMQ.
    Did you know that, on average, vegetarians live years longer than meat eaters?
    Only if they get enough protein to match that lost from meat from other sources
    Well obviously they do because they literally do live longer.
    Perhaps meat eaters aren't getting enough protein? Idk
    The last time I had a discussion on this topic with (afaicr) Foxy, I looked at the research, and actually it comes out overall that morbidity in veggies and non-veggies is the same. Which given that vegetarianism is largely a middle-class preoccupation, so you can consider your vegetarian group to have considerable additional benefits, vs. the meat eaters, is not a great showing for vegetarianism.
    Aye, you're not wrong. It's not the vegetarianism that is the causal driver of longer life. I was deliberately allowing a misleading inference to form in the mind of the reader without actually lying ("doing a HYUFD").
    My main aim was to wind Casino up by calling back to the earlier vegetarianism discussion and implying a major health benefit to quitting meat.
    Especially woke meat such as venison. Must remember that next time I am in London and want a woke dinner - Rules game pie will do nicely (though last time it was whitebait and Belted Galloway beef, I forget the cut).
    If one takes the view of an ethical vegetarian, then a meal of whitebait is a massacre, while a juicy steak is part of a single animal split multiple ways. Clearly more ethical to eat the steak than the whitebait or prawns.
    Quite! On the other hand, prawns are a very abundant species - almost a weed the way things are going in the sea - and the Marine Conservation Society say it's OK to eat as many as you like. And a lot of the larval fish would die in the normal course of things, as these forms are what ecologists call r-selected species (lots of small offspring, each fish giving rise to thousands and even millions of fertilised eggs of which, on average and in a steady state, only one survives).
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,576
    Who could possibly have predicted?

    21 Маrch
    Russia & China state: “All nuclear powers must not deploy their nuclear weapons beyond their national territories & must withdraw all nuclear weapons deployed abroad.”

    25 March
    Putin states: Russia planning to station tactical nuclear weapons in Belarus.


    https://twitter.com/BBCSteveR/status/1639726926138056707?cxt=HHwWhoDRkfS8vcEtAAAA
  • Farooq said:

    Related to the talk of summer/winter earlier... it's actually going to snow here this afternoon, according to the purveyors of weather predictions.
    Seems like like Ullr didn't get the message about the clocks changing or something.

    We've already had some snow this morning...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,028
    kle4 said:

    Who could possibly have predicted?

    21 Маrch
    Russia & China state: “All nuclear powers must not deploy their nuclear weapons beyond their national territories & must withdraw all nuclear weapons deployed abroad.”

    25 March
    Putin states: Russia planning to station tactical nuclear weapons in Belarus.


    https://twitter.com/BBCSteveR/status/1639726926138056707?cxt=HHwWhoDRkfS8vcEtAAAA

    The logic works when you remember Putin thinks of Belarus as part of Russia.
  • Foxy said:

    I see the governments response to a failing police and judicial system is to criminalise a load more ordinary youngsters experimenting with the drug of the day. Bound to help the police and courts........

    Please, please can we have left hand thinking about right hand a bit more. If we want more people to be categorised as criminals (not really sure why we should) then we need more police, lawyers, magistrates, probation officers etc too. Or decriminalise something else.

    As much as many of the police's problems are self inflicted they cannot be expected to succeed in an environment where every year more and more offences are created, laws become more complex, yet they are given no new resources.

    It all whiffs of Blairs "frogmarching yobs to the cashpoint" doesn't it?

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/mar/25/rishi-sunak-immediate-justice-scheme-to-combat-antisocial-behaviour

    I do hope that Starmer will be able to come up with some better ideas on criminal justice. Its all a bit crap at the moment.
    Thats a separate pilot scheme, I don't actually mind such trials even if I don't think they will work as long as the outcomes are judged on results rather than predetermined by ideology.

    My complaint was on the criminalisation of nitrous oxide.
    It’s the logic of the criminalisation of all non-prescribed drugs.

    It seems that the anti-drug message has put a serious chunk of teenagers off alcohol. My daughters see alcohol as a drug and scuzzy etc. The eldest has also pointed out how cheap a high end resteraunt is without alcohol or extras.

    Meanwhile the NU10K get private prescriptions for what ever uppers or downers they require. And then get them converted into NHS prescriptions. So you and I are subsidising drugs for our betters….
    GP’s converting private prescriptions into NHS ones is,IIRC, against their terms of service.
    And yet it happens all the time….
    Very difficult to police. Who is going to talk?
    The first time my GP asked for and re-wrote a prescription I’d received from a private doctor I was surprised.

    It seems to be standard behaviour - then again, it is always domain expert consultants writing the initial prescriptions, in the cases I am personally aware of.
    How could he read it?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,188
    kle4 said:

    Who could possibly have predicted?

    21 Маrch
    Russia & China state: “All nuclear powers must not deploy their nuclear weapons beyond their national territories & must withdraw all nuclear weapons deployed abroad.”

    25 March
    Putin states: Russia planning to station tactical nuclear weapons in Belarus.


    https://twitter.com/BBCSteveR/status/1639726926138056707?cxt=HHwWhoDRkfS8vcEtAAAA

    This says Russia believes Belarus to be its territory. In that case no contradiction.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,320

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    This very much tallies with my experience.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/mar/26/children-put-at-risk-as-nhs-autism-assessments-are-cut-back

    It isn't just ASD either. It is right across diagnostic services.
    Even with a diagnosis and an ECHP (a legally enforceable document, not a wishlist), there aren't the school places, or funding for staffing. And even where there is, the pay rate is making it nigh impossible to meet statutory obligations.

    That's certainly the case here. Staffordshire have quite openly redefined 'one to one support' as 'there will be a TA somewhere in the room for up to five children' because they simply cannot get enough staff.
    Adding "where possible" on to the "1 to 1 support" on risk assessments.
    You can't do that. If you are mandated and funded for 1 to 1 it's a legal requirement. And therefore needs to be paid for at the market rate. Not minimum wage.
    It's rather like saying that no one will insure my car for the laughably low price I'm prepared to pay. So I'm going to drive regardless.
    I know. And so do they. But they're not willing to do anything about it. I'm not even sure they can afford to.

    To give you some idea of how little room for manouvere they have, they advertised a job managing their social care team (repeat, managing) for £20,000 which would be reduced pro rata as it's mornings only.

    And then were surprised when they had no applicants...
    The central mystery of the current public sector pay wars.

    Suppose the government wins a non-trivial reduction in public sector pay compared with prices or the private sector.

    What do they think is going to happen next?

    (And I know, you know, we all know they don't think like that, but the question doesn't go away.)
    There seems to be a certain salary level below which market forces are assumed not to apply.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,576
    Sean_F said:

    I see the governments response to a failing police and judicial system is to criminalise a load more ordinary youngsters experimenting with the drug of the day. Bound to help the police and courts........

    Please, please can we have left hand thinking about right hand a bit more. If we want more people to be categorised as criminals (not really sure why we should) then we need more police, lawyers, magistrates, probation officers etc too. Or decriminalise something else.

    As much as many of the police's problems are self inflicted they cannot be expected to succeed in an environment where every year more and more offences are created, laws become more complex, yet they are given no new resources.

    I would far rather see existing laws enforced, than see politicians create fresh laws that won't be enforced, for purely performative reasons.
    Not eye grabbing enough for politicians. To merely enforce existing laws would be an admission things could have worked if properly resourced/run, whereas making a new law gives the impression that there was nothing they could have done up until now, so its not their fault things are shit.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,576
    FF43 said:

    kle4 said:

    Who could possibly have predicted?

    21 Маrch
    Russia & China state: “All nuclear powers must not deploy their nuclear weapons beyond their national territories & must withdraw all nuclear weapons deployed abroad.”

    25 March
    Putin states: Russia planning to station tactical nuclear weapons in Belarus.


    https://twitter.com/BBCSteveR/status/1639726926138056707?cxt=HHwWhoDRkfS8vcEtAAAA

    This says Russia believes Belarus to be its territory. In that case no contradiction.
    I just feel bad for Lukashenko. Sure he's always had to lean on Russia, but he was his own violent, corrupt authoritarian before Putin even came on the scene, and now he's basically one step up from a regional governor in what used to be his own plaything.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,284

    Foxy said:

    I see the governments response to a failing police and judicial system is to criminalise a load more ordinary youngsters experimenting with the drug of the day. Bound to help the police and courts........

    Please, please can we have left hand thinking about right hand a bit more. If we want more people to be categorised as criminals (not really sure why we should) then we need more police, lawyers, magistrates, probation officers etc too. Or decriminalise something else.

    As much as many of the police's problems are self inflicted they cannot be expected to succeed in an environment where every year more and more offences are created, laws become more complex, yet they are given no new resources.

    It all whiffs of Blairs "frogmarching yobs to the cashpoint" doesn't it?

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/mar/25/rishi-sunak-immediate-justice-scheme-to-combat-antisocial-behaviour

    I do hope that Starmer will be able to come up with some better ideas on criminal justice. Its all a bit crap at the moment.
    Thats a separate pilot scheme, I don't actually mind such trials even if I don't think they will work as long as the outcomes are judged on results rather than predetermined by ideology.

    My complaint was on the criminalisation of nitrous oxide.
    It’s the logic of the criminalisation of all non-prescribed drugs.

    It seems that the anti-drug message has put a serious chunk of teenagers off alcohol. My daughters see alcohol as a drug and scuzzy etc. The eldest has also pointed out how cheap a high end resteraunt is without alcohol or extras.

    Meanwhile the NU10K get private prescriptions for what ever uppers or downers they require. And then get them converted into NHS prescriptions. So you and I are subsidising drugs for our betters….
    GP’s converting private prescriptions into NHS ones is,IIRC, against their terms of service.
    And yet it happens all the time….
    Very difficult to police. Who is going to talk?
    The first time my GP asked for and re-wrote a prescription I’d received from a private doctor I was surprised.

    It seems to be standard behaviour - then again, it is always domain expert consultants writing the initial prescriptions, in the cases I am personally aware of.
    How could he read it?
    Asked a pharmacist!
  • eekeek Posts: 27,939
    edited March 2023
    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    This very much tallies with my experience.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/mar/26/children-put-at-risk-as-nhs-autism-assessments-are-cut-back

    It isn't just ASD either. It is right across diagnostic services.
    Even with a diagnosis and an ECHP (a legally enforceable document, not a wishlist), there aren't the school places, or funding for staffing. And even where there is, the pay rate is making it nigh impossible to meet statutory obligations.

    That's certainly the case here. Staffordshire have quite openly redefined 'one to one support' as 'there will be a TA somewhere in the room for up to five children' because they simply cannot get enough staff.
    Adding "where possible" on to the "1 to 1 support" on risk assessments.
    You can't do that. If you are mandated and funded for 1 to 1 it's a legal requirement. And therefore needs to be paid for at the market rate. Not minimum wage.
    It's rather like saying that no one will insure my car for the laughably low price I'm prepared to pay. So I'm going to drive regardless.
    I know. And so do they. But they're not willing to do anything about it. I'm not even sure they can afford to.

    To give you some idea of how little room for manouvere they have, they advertised a job managing their social care team (repeat, managing) for £20,000 which would be reduced pro rata as it's mornings only.

    And then were surprised when they had no applicants...
    Yep.
    Posts in the cushy Public Sector with an easy life and massive pensions increasingly aren't attracting any applicants whatsoever. We've had an HLTA post (19- 21k for 39 weeks pro rata) advertised since September. Not a sausage. Even unqualified.
    It's somewhat mysterious.
    That’s minimum wage level nowadays…

    £10.42*37.5*52=£20,500 ish
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705
    My suggestion for maximum lols is that we move the clocks forward 10 minutes each weekend over a period of 6 consecutive Sundays.

    Just because.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,356
    Farooq said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    Carnyx said:

    Farooq said:

    @Farooq FPT

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Well... for starters there's no guarantee Biden will even be alive in November 2024.

    He is three years past average life expectancy for a US male so anything he gets from here is a bonus..

    As an 80 yo US male, he has a life expectancy of another 7 years. Overall life expectancy is misleading (very) for someone who is already elderly.
    If you're fit and healthy, you should make it into your 90s, so long as dementia/ alzheimer's don't rear their ugly head, or you succumb to cancer. More likely in your 80s but far from inevitable.

    What you really want is to be pretty good, except for the usual wear and tear, and then go suddenly in your late 90s aka DofE or HMQ.
    Did you know that, on average, vegetarians live years longer than meat eaters?
    Only if they get enough protein to match that lost from meat from other sources
    Well obviously they do because they literally do live longer.
    Perhaps meat eaters aren't getting enough protein? Idk
    The last time I had a discussion on this topic with (afaicr) Foxy, I looked at the research, and actually it comes out overall that morbidity in veggies and non-veggies is the same. Which given that vegetarianism is largely a middle-class preoccupation, so you can consider your vegetarian group to have considerable additional benefits, vs. the meat eaters, is not a great showing for vegetarianism.
    Aye, you're not wrong. It's not the vegetarianism that is the causal driver of longer life. I was deliberately allowing a misleading inference to form in the mind of the reader without actually lying ("doing a HYUFD").
    My main aim was to wind Casino up by calling back to the earlier vegetarianism discussion and implying a major health benefit to quitting meat.
    Especially woke meat such as venison. Must remember that next time I am in London and want a woke dinner - Rules game pie will do nicely (though last time it was whitebait and Belted Galloway beef, I forget the cut).
    If one takes the view of an ethical vegetarian, then a meal of whitebait is a massacre, while a juicy steak is part of a single animal split multiple ways. Clearly more ethical to eat the steak than the whitebait or prawns.
    Quite! On the other hand, prawns are a very abundant species - almost a weed the way things are going in the sea - and the Marine Conservation Society say it's OK to eat as many as you like. And a lot of the larval fish would die in the normal course of things, as these forms are what ecologists call r-selected species (lots of small offspring, each fish giving rise to thousands and even millions of fertilised eggs of which, on average and in a steady state, only one survives).
    Deep philosophical questions at play here. We must be wary of unintentional anthropomorphism. The inner life of a cow is probably very different to that of a fish and the concept of the individual doesn't necessarily map to all species.
    In fact, the ideas I have of individual liberty and sanctity even among humans might not be the same as yours. In other cultures and times the idea of subsuming individual rights to the benefit of the group/tribe/nation/ideology is apparently less problematic than it is to my ears.

    I can't shake the feeling that biomass is an important indicator here. If you ate two whitefish out of a population of several billions, that feels a less problematic than eating the last breeding pair of some exotic bird species. Perhaps we all think, to some extent, that some lives are cheaper than others.
    Yes, I think you last paragraph makes an important point, though I would add a further point. We have the same impact on the last breeding pair of birds via destroying their habitat as eating them directly, which brings us back to chopping down jungle to grow soybeans as cattle feed.
  • eekeek Posts: 27,939

    Foxy said:

    I see the governments response to a failing police and judicial system is to criminalise a load more ordinary youngsters experimenting with the drug of the day. Bound to help the police and courts........

    Please, please can we have left hand thinking about right hand a bit more. If we want more people to be categorised as criminals (not really sure why we should) then we need more police, lawyers, magistrates, probation officers etc too. Or decriminalise something else.

    As much as many of the police's problems are self inflicted they cannot be expected to succeed in an environment where every year more and more offences are created, laws become more complex, yet they are given no new resources.

    It all whiffs of Blairs "frogmarching yobs to the cashpoint" doesn't it?

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/mar/25/rishi-sunak-immediate-justice-scheme-to-combat-antisocial-behaviour

    I do hope that Starmer will be able to come up with some better ideas on criminal justice. Its all a bit crap at the moment.
    Thats a separate pilot scheme, I don't actually mind such trials even if I don't think they will work as long as the outcomes are judged on results rather than predetermined by ideology.

    My complaint was on the criminalisation of nitrous oxide.
    It’s the logic of the criminalisation of all non-prescribed drugs.

    It seems that the anti-drug message has put a serious chunk of teenagers off alcohol. My daughters see alcohol as a drug and scuzzy etc. The eldest has also pointed out how cheap a high end resteraunt is without alcohol or extras.

    Meanwhile the NU10K get private prescriptions for what ever uppers or downers they require. And then get them converted into NHS prescriptions. So you and I are subsidising drugs for our betters….
    GP’s converting private prescriptions into NHS ones is,IIRC, against their terms of service.
    And yet it happens all the time….
    Very difficult to police. Who is going to talk?
    Oh that’s easy - mrs Eek had a private operation that she didn’t quite qualify for on the nhs and if she did would have had to wait years in the queue for.

    The doctor can hardly say no if the operation is for health reasons and (is a vague consequence of their recommendation). I can easily see a lot of drugs being justified that way.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,654
    kle4 said:

    Who could possibly have predicted?

    21 Маrch
    Russia & China state: “All nuclear powers must not deploy their nuclear weapons beyond their national territories & must withdraw all nuclear weapons deployed abroad.”

    25 March
    Putin states: Russia planning to station tactical nuclear weapons in Belarus.


    https://twitter.com/BBCSteveR/status/1639726926138056707?cxt=HHwWhoDRkfS8vcEtAAAA

    Not completely sure Russia regards Belarus as "abroad". See also Ukraine, Moldovia, Chechnya, etc etc
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,576
    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    This very much tallies with my experience.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/mar/26/children-put-at-risk-as-nhs-autism-assessments-are-cut-back

    It isn't just ASD either. It is right across diagnostic services.
    Even with a diagnosis and an ECHP (a legally enforceable document, not a wishlist), there aren't the school places, or funding for staffing. And even where there is, the pay rate is making it nigh impossible to meet statutory obligations.

    That's certainly the case here. Staffordshire have quite openly redefined 'one to one support' as 'there will be a TA somewhere in the room for up to five children' because they simply cannot get enough staff.
    Adding "where possible" on to the "1 to 1 support" on risk assessments.
    You can't do that. If you are mandated and funded for 1 to 1 it's a legal requirement. And therefore needs to be paid for at the market rate. Not minimum wage.
    It's rather like saying that no one will insure my car for the laughably low price I'm prepared to pay. So I'm going to drive regardless.
    I know. And so do they. But they're not willing to do anything about it. I'm not even sure they can afford to.

    To give you some idea of how little room for manouvere they have, they advertised a job managing their social care team (repeat, managing) for £20,000 which would be reduced pro rata as it's mornings only.

    And then were surprised when they had no applicants...
    The central mystery of the current public sector pay wars.

    Suppose the government wins a non-trivial reduction in public sector pay compared with prices or the private sector.

    What do they think is going to happen next?

    (And I know, you know, we all know they don't think like that, but the question doesn't go away.)
    There seems to be a certain salary level below which market forces are assumed not to apply.
    It is important to remember that rich people need to be paid more in order to motivate them, while poor people are better motivated to work by cutting their income.
    You see, rich people have other options and so need coaxing, whereas the poor have fewer options so can just be forced. That makes it a reasonable approach. Somehow.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,576
    edited March 2023
    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    Who could possibly have predicted?

    21 Маrch
    Russia & China state: “All nuclear powers must not deploy their nuclear weapons beyond their national territories & must withdraw all nuclear weapons deployed abroad.”

    25 March
    Putin states: Russia planning to station tactical nuclear weapons in Belarus.


    https://twitter.com/BBCSteveR/status/1639726926138056707?cxt=HHwWhoDRkfS8vcEtAAAA

    Not completely sure Russia regards Belarus as "abroad". See also Ukraine, Moldovia, Chechnya, etc etc
    As others have noted that is indeed true, but officially they believe otherwise for Belarus. At least for the moment.

    Not that they mind looking ridiculous, but 'Country X is happy to have forces of Russia there' is an argument they might reflect on when they talk about NATO forces being stationed about the place.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,320
    edited March 2023
    eek said:

    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    This very much tallies with my experience.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/mar/26/children-put-at-risk-as-nhs-autism-assessments-are-cut-back

    It isn't just ASD either. It is right across diagnostic services.
    Even with a diagnosis and an ECHP (a legally enforceable document, not a wishlist), there aren't the school places, or funding for staffing. And even where there is, the pay rate is making it nigh impossible to meet statutory obligations.

    That's certainly the case here. Staffordshire have quite openly redefined 'one to one support' as 'there will be a TA somewhere in the room for up to five children' because they simply cannot get enough staff.
    Adding "where possible" on to the "1 to 1 support" on risk assessments.
    You can't do that. If you are mandated and funded for 1 to 1 it's a legal requirement. And therefore needs to be paid for at the market rate. Not minimum wage.
    It's rather like saying that no one will insure my car for the laughably low price I'm prepared to pay. So I'm going to drive regardless.
    I know. And so do they. But they're not willing to do anything about it. I'm not even sure they can afford to.

    To give you some idea of how little room for manouvere they have, they advertised a job managing their social care team (repeat, managing) for £20,000 which would be reduced pro rata as it's mornings only.

    And then were surprised when they had no applicants...
    Yep.
    Posts in the cushy Public Sector with an easy life and massive pensions increasingly aren't attracting any applicants whatsoever. We've had an HLTA post (19- 21k for 39 weeks pro rata) advertised since September. Not a sausage. Even unqualified.
    It's somewhat mysterious.
    That’s minimum wage level nowadays…

    £10.42*37.5*52=£20,500 ish
    It's a post which requires 120 hours of study time over a year to qualify. Involves some teaching of Sixth Formers (particularly as cover), and have responsibility for two other staff. Plus to be effectively a form tutor for pastoral issues.
    For minimum wage.
    A quid an hour below Lidl.
    And unpaid holidays.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,001
    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    This very much tallies with my experience.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/mar/26/children-put-at-risk-as-nhs-autism-assessments-are-cut-back

    It isn't just ASD either. It is right across diagnostic services.
    Even with a diagnosis and an ECHP (a legally enforceable document, not a wishlist), there aren't the school places, or funding for staffing. And even where there is, the pay rate is making it nigh impossible to meet statutory obligations.

    That's certainly the case here. Staffordshire have quite openly redefined 'one to one support' as 'there will be a TA somewhere in the room for up to five children' because they simply cannot get enough staff.
    Adding "where possible" on to the "1 to 1 support" on risk assessments.
    You can't do that. If you are mandated and funded for 1 to 1 it's a legal requirement. And therefore needs to be paid for at the market rate. Not minimum wage.
    It's rather like saying that no one will insure my car for the laughably low price I'm prepared to pay. So I'm going to drive regardless.
    I know. And so do they. But they're not willing to do anything about it. I'm not even sure they can afford to.

    To give you some idea of how little room for manouvere they have, they advertised a job managing their social care team (repeat, managing) for £20,000 which would be reduced pro rata as it's mornings only.

    And then were surprised when they had no applicants...
    The central mystery of the current public sector pay wars.

    Suppose the government wins a non-trivial reduction in public sector pay compared with prices or the private sector.

    What do they think is going to happen next?

    (And I know, you know, we all know they don't think like that, but the question doesn't go away.)
    There seems to be a certain salary level below which market forces are assumed not to apply.
    It is important to remember that rich people need to be paid more in order to motivate them, while poor people are better motivated to work by cutting their income.
    Which is why the "Agreeing to work for a fake company for 10k a day" story is so depressingly familiar.

    Failed ministers who really think they are worth so much more than ordinaries.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,463
    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    This very much tallies with my experience.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/mar/26/children-put-at-risk-as-nhs-autism-assessments-are-cut-back

    It isn't just ASD either. It is right across diagnostic services.
    Even with a diagnosis and an ECHP (a legally enforceable document, not a wishlist), there aren't the school places, or funding for staffing. And even where there is, the pay rate is making it nigh impossible to meet statutory obligations.

    That's certainly the case here. Staffordshire have quite openly redefined 'one to one support' as 'there will be a TA somewhere in the room for up to five children' because they simply cannot get enough staff.
    Adding "where possible" on to the "1 to 1 support" on risk assessments.
    You can't do that. If you are mandated and funded for 1 to 1 it's a legal requirement. And therefore needs to be paid for at the market rate. Not minimum wage.
    It's rather like saying that no one will insure my car for the laughably low price I'm prepared to pay. So I'm going to drive regardless.
    I know. And so do they. But they're not willing to do anything about it. I'm not even sure they can afford to.

    To give you some idea of how little room for manouvere they have, they advertised a job managing their social care team (repeat, managing) for £20,000 which would be reduced pro rata as it's mornings only.

    And then were surprised when they had no applicants...
    The central mystery of the current public sector pay wars.

    Suppose the government wins a non-trivial reduction in public sector pay compared with prices or the private sector.

    What do they think is going to happen next?

    (And I know, you know, we all know they don't think like that, but the question doesn't go away.)
    There seems to be a certain salary level below which market forces are assumed not to apply.
    It is important to remember that rich people need to be paid more in order to motivate them, while poor people are better motivated to work by cutting their income.
    £10k per day seems to be the rate for former cabinet ministers:

    Matt Hancock and Kwasi Kwarteng agreed to work for a fake South Korean company for £10,000 a day, footage from a campaign group appears to show.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65077273

    I assume that genuine organisations are paying out that sort of money which leads to the question of what they are getting in return.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,216

    I did not even realise we had flipped to BST :smile:

    In the old days, you would change the clocks the night before. Now, most clocks change themselves so you have to wait and see what looks wrong in the morning, or in my case, three or four days later.
    Or in some cases, what we just have to learn to ignore for the next seven months because goodness only knows how you adjust it.
    I clearly have a preference, as all my such devices are as of this morning correct again.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,654
    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    Who could possibly have predicted?

    21 Маrch
    Russia & China state: “All nuclear powers must not deploy their nuclear weapons beyond their national territories & must withdraw all nuclear weapons deployed abroad.”

    25 March
    Putin states: Russia planning to station tactical nuclear weapons in Belarus.


    https://twitter.com/BBCSteveR/status/1639726926138056707?cxt=HHwWhoDRkfS8vcEtAAAA

    Not completely sure Russia regards Belarus as "abroad". See also Ukraine, Moldovia, Chechnya, etc etc
    As others have noted that is indeed true, but officially they believe otherwise for Belarus. At least for the moment.

    Not that they mind looking ridiculous, but 'Country X is happy to have forces of Russia there' is an argument they might reflect on when they talk about NATO forces being stationed about the place.
    In fairness, I always thought that the Russians had a point when they were not allowed missiles in Cuba but the US had them in Turkey and western Europe. On one view the US position was more than a tad hypocritical.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,463

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    This very much tallies with my experience.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/mar/26/children-put-at-risk-as-nhs-autism-assessments-are-cut-back

    It isn't just ASD either. It is right across diagnostic services.
    Even with a diagnosis and an ECHP (a legally enforceable document, not a wishlist), there aren't the school places, or funding for staffing. And even where there is, the pay rate is making it nigh impossible to meet statutory obligations.

    That's certainly the case here. Staffordshire have quite openly redefined 'one to one support' as 'there will be a TA somewhere in the room for up to five children' because they simply cannot get enough staff.
    Adding "where possible" on to the "1 to 1 support" on risk assessments.
    You can't do that. If you are mandated and funded for 1 to 1 it's a legal requirement. And therefore needs to be paid for at the market rate. Not minimum wage.
    It's rather like saying that no one will insure my car for the laughably low price I'm prepared to pay. So I'm going to drive regardless.
    I know. And so do they. But they're not willing to do anything about it. I'm not even sure they can afford to.

    To give you some idea of how little room for manouvere they have, they advertised a job managing their social care team (repeat, managing) for £20,000 which would be reduced pro rata as it's mornings only.

    And then were surprised when they had no applicants...
    The central mystery of the current public sector pay wars.

    Suppose the government wins a non-trivial reduction in public sector pay compared with prices or the private sector.

    What do they think is going to happen next?

    (And I know, you know, we all know they don't think like that, but the question doesn't go away.)
    There seems to be a certain salary level below which market forces are assumed not to apply.
    It is important to remember that rich people need to be paid more in order to motivate them, while poor people are better motivated to work by cutting their income.
    £10k per day seems to be the rate for former cabinet ministers:

    Matt Hancock and Kwasi Kwarteng agreed to work for a fake South Korean company for £10,000 a day, footage from a campaign group appears to show.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65077273

    I assume that genuine organisations are paying out that sort of money which leads to the question of what they are getting in return.
    Of course its neither a new thing or only a Conservative thing:

    MP David Miliband earns more than £410,000 a year on top of his parliamentary income, by carrying out work outside his constituency job, it has been reported.

    The South Shields Labour MP – who rakes in the six-figure sum through consultancy work and speeches – is the second highest earner in a league of MPs’ earnings, behind Gordon Brown who is paid an extra £900,286.55 through a variety of outside interests.

    https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/local-news/south-shields-mp-david-milibands-1369854
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,197
    Dura_Ace said:

    My Aunty used to have Nitrous Oxide when she went to the dentist. I don't know how much it is used nowadays. Is it ever given to children?

    Dentists don't administer general anesthetic in the practice these days. If Mrs DA wants to render a patient unconscious she tells them what their bill is going to be.
    Given bills I just paid for bone grafting and bridge etc for my wife I can imagine they would be out for a considerable period.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,576
    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    Who could possibly have predicted?

    21 Маrch
    Russia & China state: “All nuclear powers must not deploy their nuclear weapons beyond their national territories & must withdraw all nuclear weapons deployed abroad.”

    25 March
    Putin states: Russia planning to station tactical nuclear weapons in Belarus.


    https://twitter.com/BBCSteveR/status/1639726926138056707?cxt=HHwWhoDRkfS8vcEtAAAA

    Not completely sure Russia regards Belarus as "abroad". See also Ukraine, Moldovia, Chechnya, etc etc
    As others have noted that is indeed true, but officially they believe otherwise for Belarus. At least for the moment.

    Not that they mind looking ridiculous, but 'Country X is happy to have forces of Russia there' is an argument they might reflect on when they talk about NATO forces being stationed about the place.
    In fairness, I always thought that the Russians had a point when they were not allowed missiles in Cuba but the US had them in Turkey and western Europe. On one view the US position was more than a tad hypocritical.
    Well, yes, but then that's international relations for you - you can do what you can get away with.
  • My suggestion for maximum lols is that we move the clocks forward 10 minutes each weekend over a period of 6 consecutive Sundays.

    Just because.

    I think we should change the clock every day so that dawn and dusk are both at 6

    Daytime "hours" would get shorter in the winter, so night-time hours longer

    A nine to five job would only take about four equinox (or "old") hours in the middle of winter, balanced with doing twelve hours in the summer

    Sundials could make a resurgence
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,705
    PS – I love Sweden, but my word, what kind of monster prefers the cold of winter over the warmth of summer?

    Please try not to get too obviously silly in your attempts at satire. It spoils the effect.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,670
    dixiedean said:

    eek said:

    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    This very much tallies with my experience.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/mar/26/children-put-at-risk-as-nhs-autism-assessments-are-cut-back

    It isn't just ASD either. It is right across diagnostic services.
    Even with a diagnosis and an ECHP (a legally enforceable document, not a wishlist), there aren't the school places, or funding for staffing. And even where there is, the pay rate is making it nigh impossible to meet statutory obligations.

    That's certainly the case here. Staffordshire have quite openly redefined 'one to one support' as 'there will be a TA somewhere in the room for up to five children' because they simply cannot get enough staff.
    Adding "where possible" on to the "1 to 1 support" on risk assessments.
    You can't do that. If you are mandated and funded for 1 to 1 it's a legal requirement. And therefore needs to be paid for at the market rate. Not minimum wage.
    It's rather like saying that no one will insure my car for the laughably low price I'm prepared to pay. So I'm going to drive regardless.
    I know. And so do they. But they're not willing to do anything about it. I'm not even sure they can afford to.

    To give you some idea of how little room for manouvere they have, they advertised a job managing their social care team (repeat, managing) for £20,000 which would be reduced pro rata as it's mornings only.

    And then were surprised when they had no applicants...
    Yep.
    Posts in the cushy Public Sector with an easy life and massive pensions increasingly aren't attracting any applicants whatsoever. We've had an HLTA post (19- 21k for 39 weeks pro rata) advertised since September. Not a sausage. Even unqualified.
    It's somewhat mysterious.
    That’s minimum wage level nowadays…

    £10.42*37.5*52=£20,500 ish
    It's a post which requires 120 hours of study time over a year to qualify. Involves some teaching of Sixth Formers (particularly as cover), and have responsibility for two other staff. Plus to be effectively a form tutor for pastoral issues.
    For minimum wage.
    A quid an hour below Lidl.
    And unpaid holidays.
    MS Windows admin type I know who works in the education sector posted a job 'match' they'd had via Glassdoor the other week. It was for a gutter cleaner. Much "hoho'ing" about how that wasn't much different to being a Windows admin. Then he realised it was paying > 20% more than he was currently earning. Which rather cut down on the "hoho'ing".
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,307
    edited March 2023
    Tres said:

    Having just watched Aqua - Turn Back Time again it seems to be filmed largely at Bank/Holborn tube stations and there's an awful lot of Gwyneth Paltrow in it.

    Didn't remember that.

    Sliding Doors soundtrack wasn't it?
    While poor films can be around 10-20% better by virtue of casting Michelle Pfeiffer, good films lose a similar amount by casting Gwneth Paltrow.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,068
    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    Who could possibly have predicted?

    21 Маrch
    Russia & China state: “All nuclear powers must not deploy their nuclear weapons beyond their national territories & must withdraw all nuclear weapons deployed abroad.”

    25 March
    Putin states: Russia planning to station tactical nuclear weapons in Belarus.


    https://twitter.com/BBCSteveR/status/1639726926138056707?cxt=HHwWhoDRkfS8vcEtAAAA

    Not completely sure Russia regards Belarus as "abroad". See also Ukraine, Moldovia, Chechnya, etc etc
    As others have noted that is indeed true, but officially they believe otherwise for Belarus. At least for the moment.

    Not that they mind looking ridiculous, but 'Country X is happy to have forces of Russia there' is an argument they might reflect on when they talk about NATO forces being stationed about the place.
    In fairness, I always thought that the Russians had a point when they were not allowed missiles in Cuba but the US had them in Turkey and western Europe. On one view the US position was more than a tad hypocritical.
    Well, yes, but then that's international relations for you - you can do what you can get away with.
    The strong do as they will, the weak as they must. What's hugely galling for the Russian leadership is to discover that they are now among the weak.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,197
    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    Labour surge Klaxon rebuttal, unless they are all paying a penny.......
    Since the independence referendum, Labour’s membership revenue has dropped by 30%, and 2021 accounts highlight only £80k in subs! https://dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/scottish-labour-crisis-after-leaked-23431174

    TBF that's Slab only and in 2021 - though indyref was soon followed by Corbymania which must complicate things in that it presumably went up for a bit.
    Afternoon Carnyx, I was pointing out how bad Scottish Labour was after all the hype on here about how they were surging and about to gain 25 seats etc. Meanwhile in teh real world they would struggle to fill a bus.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,843
    malcolmg said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    My Aunty used to have Nitrous Oxide when she went to the dentist. I don't know how much it is used nowadays. Is it ever given to children?

    Dentists don't administer general anesthetic in the practice these days. If Mrs DA wants to render a patient unconscious she tells them what their bill is going to be.
    Given bills I just paid for bone grafting and bridge etc for my wife I can imagine they would be out for a considerable period.
    All dentists are lying, money grabbing #####. Lots of people being talked into unnecessary procedures to line their pockets. Nationalise them and give them a salary.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,028
    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    Labour surge Klaxon rebuttal, unless they are all paying a penny.......
    Since the independence referendum, Labour’s membership revenue has dropped by 30%, and 2021 accounts highlight only £80k in subs! https://dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/scottish-labour-crisis-after-leaked-23431174

    TBF that's Slab only and in 2021 - though indyref was soon followed by Corbymania which must complicate things in that it presumably went up for a bit.
    Afternoon Carnyx, I was pointing out how bad Scottish Labour was after all the hype on here about how they were surging and about to gain 25 seats etc. Meanwhile in teh real world they would struggle to fill a bus.
    But you don't use Scottish labour members to fill a bus, do you? You use diesel.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,463

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    This very much tallies with my experience.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/mar/26/children-put-at-risk-as-nhs-autism-assessments-are-cut-back

    It isn't just ASD either. It is right across diagnostic services.
    Even with a diagnosis and an ECHP (a legally enforceable document, not a wishlist), there aren't the school places, or funding for staffing. And even where there is, the pay rate is making it nigh impossible to meet statutory obligations.

    That's certainly the case here. Staffordshire have quite openly redefined 'one to one support' as 'there will be a TA somewhere in the room for up to five children' because they simply cannot get enough staff.
    Adding "where possible" on to the "1 to 1 support" on risk assessments.
    You can't do that. If you are mandated and funded for 1 to 1 it's a legal requirement. And therefore needs to be paid for at the market rate. Not minimum wage.
    It's rather like saying that no one will insure my car for the laughably low price I'm prepared to pay. So I'm going to drive regardless.
    I know. And so do they. But they're not willing to do anything about it. I'm not even sure they can afford to.

    To give you some idea of how little room for manouvere they have, they advertised a job managing their social care team (repeat, managing) for £20,000 which would be reduced pro rata as it's mornings only.

    And then were surprised when they had no applicants...
    The central mystery of the current public sector pay wars.

    Suppose the government wins a non-trivial reduction in public sector pay compared with prices or the private sector.

    What do they think is going to happen next?

    (And I know, you know, we all know they don't think like that, but the question doesn't go away.)
    There seems to be a certain salary level below which market forces are assumed not to apply.
    It is important to remember that rich people need to be paid more in order to motivate them, while poor people are better motivated to work by cutting their income.
    Which is why the "Agreeing to work for a fake company for 10k a day" story is so depressingly familiar.

    Failed ministers who really think they are worth so much more than ordinaries.
    But if they are getting that sort of money then the organisations which are paying them must think they are worth it.

    So what are those organisations getting in return for the £10k per day ?

    Or perhaps the £10k per day is instead a payment for services already provided when they were in government.

    This is particularly likely among finance ministers knowing if they 'play nicely' with the financial institutions they can expect many millions in return once they leave office.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,939

    The thing about NO abuse is that I keep on seeing discarded cylinders on the ground in random places. If they want to damage themselves doing drugs, then the least the little sh*ts could do is pick up their litter ... ;)

    They are now dumping the large cylinders too. These cause a bit of a problem when they go bang in Energy from Waste* plants.

    *Incinerators, if you prefer.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,598

    My suggestion for maximum lols is that we move the clocks forward 10 minutes each weekend over a period of 6 consecutive Sundays.

    Just because.

    I think we should change the clock every day so that dawn and dusk are both at 6

    Daytime "hours" would get shorter in the winter, so night-time hours longer

    A nine to five job would only take about four equinox (or "old") hours in the middle of winter, balanced with doing twelve hours in the summer

    Sundials could make a resurgence
    THat's the old style Roman hours. But it wouldn't work for sundials (because the shadows would be in the same place at 0900 and 1800 GMT, which wouldn't work for Roman hours).
This discussion has been closed.