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If I could turn back time – politicalbetting.com

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  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,749
    Here's a revolutionary idea: don't change the clock, change the hours of business, or whatever activity, if need be.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,831
    Carnyx said:

    My suggestion for maximum lols is that we move the clocks forward 10 minutes each weekend over a period of 6 consecutive Sundays.

    Just because.

    I think we should change the clock every day so that dawn and dusk are both at 6

    Daytime "hours" would get shorter in the winter, so night-time hours longer

    A nine to five job would only take about four equinox (or "old") hours in the middle of winter, balanced with doing twelve hours in the summer

    Sundials could make a resurgence
    THat's the old style Roman hours. But it wouldn't work for sundials (because the shadows would be in the same place at 0900 and 1800 GMT, which wouldn't work for Roman hours).
    Do you think that Useless will win on the first ballot tomorrow? I suspect that he will get very few transfers from Regan so it might get close if he doesn't. I think he will end up with about 60% myself.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    Scottish Green Party leader warns the SNP "sincere commitment to progressive values cannot be an optional extra in a choice of first minister", saying instead that this was "necessity".

    Suggests the Scottish Greens will withdraw support from the SNP minority government if the SNP elect Kate Forbes their leader tomorrow
    https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/snp-leadership-greens-clearest-signal-yet-they-wouldnt-work-with-kate-forbes-4079467
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    HYUFD said:

    Scottish Green Party leader warns the SNP "sincere commitment to progressive values cannot be an optional extra in a choice of first minister", saying instead that this was "necessity".

    Suggests the Scottish Greens will withdraw support from the SNP minority government if the SNP elect Kate Forbes their leader tomorrow
    https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/snp-leadership-greens-clearest-signal-yet-they-wouldnt-work-with-kate-forbes-4079467

    The loss of Patrick Harvie from frontline Scottish politics would indeed be a blow.
  • TresTres Posts: 2,696
    Chris said:

    Here's a revolutionary idea: don't change the clock, change the hours of business, or whatever activity, if need be.

    Hungary and Spain are in the same timezone. Hungary working days starts before 8. Spain after 10.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838
    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    My suggestion for maximum lols is that we move the clocks forward 10 minutes each weekend over a period of 6 consecutive Sundays.

    Just because.

    I think we should change the clock every day so that dawn and dusk are both at 6

    Daytime "hours" would get shorter in the winter, so night-time hours longer

    A nine to five job would only take about four equinox (or "old") hours in the middle of winter, balanced with doing twelve hours in the summer

    Sundials could make a resurgence
    THat's the old style Roman hours. But it wouldn't work for sundials (because the shadows would be in the same place at 0900 and 1800 GMT, which wouldn't work for Roman hours).
    Do you think that Useless will win on the first ballot tomorrow? I suspect that he will get very few transfers from Regan so it might get close if he doesn't. I think he will end up with about 60% myself.
    To my mind it depends so much on how many of the members are from the pre-rapprochement-with-SGs era and are more likely to vote for Ms Forbes or Ms Regan. The big increase in numbers came about in the immediate aftermath of indyref1 and that was pretty much before the shift to the left and the adoption of gender politics as a figurehead policy (and, it should be said, the comcomitant jettisoning by the Tories of Mrs May's trans reform policy in order to go all wokefinding on it).

    I think if Mr Yousaf doesn't get 50% + 1 there is a good chanve that he has lost it. And I'm not sure he will manage that at all.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,916
    edited March 2023
    Farooq said:

    My suggestion for maximum lols is that we move the clocks forward 10 minutes each weekend over a period of 6 consecutive Sundays.

    Just because.

    I think we should change the clock every day so that dawn and dusk are both at 6

    Daytime "hours" would get shorter in the winter, so night-time hours longer

    A nine to five job would only take about four equinox (or "old") hours in the middle of winter, balanced with doing twelve hours in the summer

    Sundials could make a resurgence
    This is the old way. I believe "noon" comes from Latin for "nine", that is the ninth hour of daylight. Don't quite understand how that can refer to 12pm other than in the far north but that's where it comes from.
    If it's measured by the eariest dawn of the year, and if we call that the time when nautical twilight becomes civil twilight.. in Rome, that happens at five - when the clocks have gone forward, so really four

    The ninth hour starts eight hours later
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    edited March 2023
    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    My suggestion for maximum lols is that we move the clocks forward 10 minutes each weekend over a period of 6 consecutive Sundays.

    Just because.

    I think we should change the clock every day so that dawn and dusk are both at 6

    Daytime "hours" would get shorter in the winter, so night-time hours longer

    A nine to five job would only take about four equinox (or "old") hours in the middle of winter, balanced with doing twelve hours in the summer

    Sundials could make a resurgence
    THat's the old style Roman hours. But it wouldn't work for sundials (because the shadows would be in the same place at 0900 and 1800 GMT, which wouldn't work for Roman hours).
    Do you think that Useless will win on the first ballot tomorrow? I suspect that he will get very few transfers from Regan so it might get close if he doesn't. I think he will end up with about 60% myself.
    To my mind it depends so much on how many of the members are from the pre-rapprochement-with-SGs era and are more likely to vote for Ms Forbes or Ms Regan. The big increase in numbers came about in the immediate aftermath of indyref1 and that was pretty much before the shift to the left and the adoption of gender politics as a figurehead policy (and, it should be said, the comcomitant jettisoning by the Tories of Mrs May's trans reform policy in order to go all wokefinding on it).

    I think if Mr Yousaf doesn't get 50% + 1 there is a good chanve that he has lost it. And I'm not sure he will manage that at all.
    Last SNP members poll had Yousaf on under 50% at 46%, Forbes was on 37% and Regan on 17%, so Regan's transfers would be decisive tomorrow.

    While Yousaf was ahead with well over 50% with SNP members under 50, SNP members 55-64 backed Forbes with 51% on the first ballot. Forbes also led Yousaf by 10% with SNP members over 65
    https://savanta.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/P029532_SNP_Members_Survey_WTD_Tables_20230302_Private-003.xlsx
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,388

    HYUFD said:

    Scottish Green Party leader warns the SNP "sincere commitment to progressive values cannot be an optional extra in a choice of first minister", saying instead that this was "necessity".

    Suggests the Scottish Greens will withdraw support from the SNP minority government if the SNP elect Kate Forbes their leader tomorrow
    https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/snp-leadership-greens-clearest-signal-yet-they-wouldnt-work-with-kate-forbes-4079467

    The loss of Patrick Harvie from frontline Scottish politics would indeed be a blow.
    It would be a tremendous blow for ecology.

    In which direction, I'll leave up to you.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,220
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    My suggestion for maximum lols is that we move the clocks forward 10 minutes each weekend over a period of 6 consecutive Sundays.

    Just because.

    I think we should change the clock every day so that dawn and dusk are both at 6

    Daytime "hours" would get shorter in the winter, so night-time hours longer

    A nine to five job would only take about four equinox (or "old") hours in the middle of winter, balanced with doing twelve hours in the summer

    Sundials could make a resurgence
    THat's the old style Roman hours. But it wouldn't work for sundials (because the shadows would be in the same place at 0900 and 1800 GMT, which wouldn't work for Roman hours).
    Do you think that Useless will win on the first ballot tomorrow? I suspect that he will get very few transfers from Regan so it might get close if he doesn't. I think he will end up with about 60% myself.
    To my mind it depends so much on how many of the members are from the pre-rapprochement-with-SGs era and are more likely to vote for Ms Forbes or Ms Regan. The big increase in numbers came about in the immediate aftermath of indyref1 and that was pretty much before the shift to the left and the adoption of gender politics as a figurehead policy (and, it should be said, the comcomitant jettisoning by the Tories of Mrs May's trans reform policy in order to go all wokefinding on it).

    I think if Mr Yousaf doesn't get 50% + 1 there is a good chanve that he has lost it. And I'm not sure he will manage that at all.
    Last SNP members poll had Yousaf on under 50% at 46%, Forbes was on 37% and Regan on 17%, so Regan's transfers would be decisive tomorrow.

    While Yousaf was ahead with well over 50% with SNP members under 50, SNP members 55-64 backed Forbes with 51% on the first ballot. Forbes also led Yousaf by 10% with SNP members over 65
    https://savanta.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/P029532_SNP_Members_Survey_WTD_Tables_20230302_Private-003.xlsx
    As with the Conservative Summer 2022 leadership election, not easy to see a good outcome from those figures.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,329
    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    Labour surge Klaxon rebuttal, unless they are all paying a penny.......
    Since the independence referendum, Labour’s membership revenue has dropped by 30%, and 2021 accounts highlight only £80k in subs! https://dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/scottish-labour-crisis-after-leaked-23431174

    TBF that's Slab only and in 2021 - though indyref was soon followed by Corbymania which must complicate things in that it presumably went up for a bit.
    Afternoon Carnyx, I was pointing out how bad Scottish Labour was after all the hype on here about how they were surging and about to gain 25 seats etc. Meanwhile in teh real world they would struggle to fill a bus.
    But you don't use Scottish labour members to fill a bus, do you? You use diesel.
    Diesel would have more chance of winning than those turkeys for sure
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    Tres said:

    Chris said:

    Here's a revolutionary idea: don't change the clock, change the hours of business, or whatever activity, if need be.

    Hungary and Spain are in the same timezone. Hungary working days starts before 8. Spain after 10.
    Taiwan remains resolutely on Chinese time. So has the same hours as Xinjiang in Central Asia.
    Therefore it gets both light and dark earlier than it really should year round.
    A great deal of shopping and socialising takes place in the dark year round. Can't remember ever going to work in the dark. But regularly came home in it in the Winter.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,329

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    My suggestion for maximum lols is that we move the clocks forward 10 minutes each weekend over a period of 6 consecutive Sundays.

    Just because.

    I think we should change the clock every day so that dawn and dusk are both at 6

    Daytime "hours" would get shorter in the winter, so night-time hours longer

    A nine to five job would only take about four equinox (or "old") hours in the middle of winter, balanced with doing twelve hours in the summer

    Sundials could make a resurgence
    THat's the old style Roman hours. But it wouldn't work for sundials (because the shadows would be in the same place at 0900 and 1800 GMT, which wouldn't work for Roman hours).
    Do you think that Useless will win on the first ballot tomorrow? I suspect that he will get very few transfers from Regan so it might get close if he doesn't. I think he will end up with about 60% myself.
    To my mind it depends so much on how many of the members are from the pre-rapprochement-with-SGs era and are more likely to vote for Ms Forbes or Ms Regan. The big increase in numbers came about in the immediate aftermath of indyref1 and that was pretty much before the shift to the left and the adoption of gender politics as a figurehead policy (and, it should be said, the comcomitant jettisoning by the Tories of Mrs May's trans reform policy in order to go all wokefinding on it).

    I think if Mr Yousaf doesn't get 50% + 1 there is a good chanve that he has lost it. And I'm not sure he will manage that at all.
    Last SNP members poll had Yousaf on under 50% at 46%, Forbes was on 37% and Regan on 17%, so Regan's transfers would be decisive tomorrow.

    While Yousaf was ahead with well over 50% with SNP members under 50, SNP members 55-64 backed Forbes with 51% on the first ballot. Forbes also led Yousaf by 10% with SNP members over 65
    https://savanta.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/P029532_SNP_Members_Survey_WTD_Tables_20230302_Private-003.xlsx
    As with the Conservative Summer 2022 leadership election, not easy to see a good outcome from those figures.
    Anything that means Useless is dumped and sent as far from any decision making as possible is an improvement.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,388
    malcolmg said:

    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    Labour surge Klaxon rebuttal, unless they are all paying a penny.......
    Since the independence referendum, Labour’s membership revenue has dropped by 30%, and 2021 accounts highlight only £80k in subs! https://dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/scottish-labour-crisis-after-leaked-23431174

    TBF that's Slab only and in 2021 - though indyref was soon followed by Corbymania which must complicate things in that it presumably went up for a bit.
    Afternoon Carnyx, I was pointing out how bad Scottish Labour was after all the hype on here about how they were surging and about to gain 25 seats etc. Meanwhile in teh real world they would struggle to fill a bus.
    But you don't use Scottish labour members to fill a bus, do you? You use diesel.
    Diesel would have more chance of winning than those turkeys for sure
    I agree. No need for us to have a bussed up over it.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,388

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    My suggestion for maximum lols is that we move the clocks forward 10 minutes each weekend over a period of 6 consecutive Sundays.

    Just because.

    I think we should change the clock every day so that dawn and dusk are both at 6

    Daytime "hours" would get shorter in the winter, so night-time hours longer

    A nine to five job would only take about four equinox (or "old") hours in the middle of winter, balanced with doing twelve hours in the summer

    Sundials could make a resurgence
    THat's the old style Roman hours. But it wouldn't work for sundials (because the shadows would be in the same place at 0900 and 1800 GMT, which wouldn't work for Roman hours).
    Do you think that Useless will win on the first ballot tomorrow? I suspect that he will get very few transfers from Regan so it might get close if he doesn't. I think he will end up with about 60% myself.
    To my mind it depends so much on how many of the members are from the pre-rapprochement-with-SGs era and are more likely to vote for Ms Forbes or Ms Regan. The big increase in numbers came about in the immediate aftermath of indyref1 and that was pretty much before the shift to the left and the adoption of gender politics as a figurehead policy (and, it should be said, the comcomitant jettisoning by the Tories of Mrs May's trans reform policy in order to go all wokefinding on it).

    I think if Mr Yousaf doesn't get 50% + 1 there is a good chanve that he has lost it. And I'm not sure he will manage that at all.
    Last SNP members poll had Yousaf on under 50% at 46%, Forbes was on 37% and Regan on 17%, so Regan's transfers would be decisive tomorrow.

    While Yousaf was ahead with well over 50% with SNP members under 50, SNP members 55-64 backed Forbes with 51% on the first ballot. Forbes also led Yousaf by 10% with SNP members over 65
    https://savanta.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/P029532_SNP_Members_Survey_WTD_Tables_20230302_Private-003.xlsx
    As with the Conservative Summer 2022 leadership election, not easy to see a good outcome from those figures.
    The good outcomes for the SNP in light of recent events are....


    Ummm...


    Well....


    You know....

    And that's involving the figures or not.
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    Who could possibly have predicted?

    21 Маrch
    Russia & China state: “All nuclear powers must not deploy their nuclear weapons beyond their national territories & must withdraw all nuclear weapons deployed abroad.”

    25 March
    Putin states: Russia planning to station tactical nuclear weapons in Belarus.


    https://twitter.com/BBCSteveR/status/1639726926138056707?cxt=HHwWhoDRkfS8vcEtAAAA

    Not completely sure Russia regards Belarus as "abroad". See also Ukraine, Moldovia, Chechnya, etc etc
    As others have noted that is indeed true, but officially they believe otherwise for Belarus. At least for the moment.

    Not that they mind looking ridiculous, but 'Country X is happy to have forces of Russia there' is an argument they might reflect on when they talk about NATO forces being stationed about the place.
    In fairness, I always thought that the Russians had a point when they were not allowed missiles in Cuba but the US had them in Turkey and western Europe. On one view the US position was more than a tad hypocritical.
    Well, yes, but then that's international relations for you - you can do what you can get away with.
    The strong do as they will, the weak as they must. What's hugely galling for the Russian leadership is to discover that they are now among the weak.
    You mean the Greater Siberia Special Admimistrative Region?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,388
    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    My suggestion for maximum lols is that we move the clocks forward 10 minutes each weekend over a period of 6 consecutive Sundays.

    Just because.

    I think we should change the clock every day so that dawn and dusk are both at 6

    Daytime "hours" would get shorter in the winter, so night-time hours longer

    A nine to five job would only take about four equinox (or "old") hours in the middle of winter, balanced with doing twelve hours in the summer

    Sundials could make a resurgence
    THat's the old style Roman hours. But it wouldn't work for sundials (because the shadows would be in the same place at 0900 and 1800 GMT, which wouldn't work for Roman hours).
    Do you think that Useless will win on the first ballot tomorrow? I suspect that he will get very few transfers from Regan so it might get close if he doesn't. I think he will end up with about 60% myself.
    To my mind it depends so much on how many of the members are from the pre-rapprochement-with-SGs era and are more likely to vote for Ms Forbes or Ms Regan. The big increase in numbers came about in the immediate aftermath of indyref1 and that was pretty much before the shift to the left and the adoption of gender politics as a figurehead policy (and, it should be said, the comcomitant jettisoning by the Tories of Mrs May's trans reform policy in order to go all wokefinding on it).

    I think if Mr Yousaf doesn't get 50% + 1 there is a good chanve that he has lost it. And I'm not sure he will manage that at all.
    Last SNP members poll had Yousaf on under 50% at 46%, Forbes was on 37% and Regan on 17%, so Regan's transfers would be decisive tomorrow.

    While Yousaf was ahead with well over 50% with SNP members under 50, SNP members 55-64 backed Forbes with 51% on the first ballot. Forbes also led Yousaf by 10% with SNP members over 65
    https://savanta.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/P029532_SNP_Members_Survey_WTD_Tables_20230302_Private-003.xlsx
    As with the Conservative Summer 2022 leadership election, not easy to see a good outcome from those figures.
    Anything that means Useless is dumped and sent as far from any decision making as possible is an improvement.
    And if he wins...?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,329
    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    My suggestion for maximum lols is that we move the clocks forward 10 minutes each weekend over a period of 6 consecutive Sundays.

    Just because.

    I think we should change the clock every day so that dawn and dusk are both at 6

    Daytime "hours" would get shorter in the winter, so night-time hours longer

    A nine to five job would only take about four equinox (or "old") hours in the middle of winter, balanced with doing twelve hours in the summer

    Sundials could make a resurgence
    THat's the old style Roman hours. But it wouldn't work for sundials (because the shadows would be in the same place at 0900 and 1800 GMT, which wouldn't work for Roman hours).
    Do you think that Useless will win on the first ballot tomorrow? I suspect that he will get very few transfers from Regan so it might get close if he doesn't. I think he will end up with about 60% myself.
    Only if it is as rigged as it looks David. I think as the game is up they moved to supporting Forbes with guarantee she would give Uselss a job. Forbes is not likely to uncover all the criminal acts that are hanging about. Still some fun to come when the court cases start, see which of the rats will start grassing on each other as the UK fraud squad close in and their local pals cannot help out.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,329
    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    My suggestion for maximum lols is that we move the clocks forward 10 minutes each weekend over a period of 6 consecutive Sundays.

    Just because.

    I think we should change the clock every day so that dawn and dusk are both at 6

    Daytime "hours" would get shorter in the winter, so night-time hours longer

    A nine to five job would only take about four equinox (or "old") hours in the middle of winter, balanced with doing twelve hours in the summer

    Sundials could make a resurgence
    THat's the old style Roman hours. But it wouldn't work for sundials (because the shadows would be in the same place at 0900 and 1800 GMT, which wouldn't work for Roman hours).
    Do you think that Useless will win on the first ballot tomorrow? I suspect that he will get very few transfers from Regan so it might get close if he doesn't. I think he will end up with about 60% myself.
    To my mind it depends so much on how many of the members are from the pre-rapprochement-with-SGs era and are more likely to vote for Ms Forbes or Ms Regan. The big increase in numbers came about in the immediate aftermath of indyref1 and that was pretty much before the shift to the left and the adoption of gender politics as a figurehead policy (and, it should be said, the comcomitant jettisoning by the Tories of Mrs May's trans reform policy in order to go all wokefinding on it).

    I think if Mr Yousaf doesn't get 50% + 1 there is a good chanve that he has lost it. And I'm not sure he will manage that at all.
    Last SNP members poll had Yousaf on under 50% at 46%, Forbes was on 37% and Regan on 17%, so Regan's transfers would be decisive tomorrow.

    While Yousaf was ahead with well over 50% with SNP members under 50, SNP members 55-64 backed Forbes with 51% on the first ballot. Forbes also led Yousaf by 10% with SNP members over 65
    https://savanta.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/P029532_SNP_Members_Survey_WTD_Tables_20230302_Private-003.xlsx
    As with the Conservative Summer 2022 leadership election, not easy to see a good outcome from those figures.
    Anything that means Useless is dumped and sent as far from any decision making as possible is an improvement.
    And if he wins...?
    Will be a wipe out in no time and an election , he really is Useless. He makes Truss look like a genius.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191
    Chris said:

    Here's a revolutionary idea: don't change the clock, change the hours of business, or whatever activity, if need be.

    That's fine if your life revolves around one particular activity or business but if your kids school decides to change and your employer doesn't...
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,828
    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    Who could possibly have predicted?

    21 Маrch
    Russia & China state: “All nuclear powers must not deploy their nuclear weapons beyond their national territories & must withdraw all nuclear weapons deployed abroad.”

    25 March
    Putin states: Russia planning to station tactical nuclear weapons in Belarus.


    https://twitter.com/BBCSteveR/status/1639726926138056707?cxt=HHwWhoDRkfS8vcEtAAAA

    Not completely sure Russia regards Belarus as "abroad". See also Ukraine, Moldovia, Chechnya, etc etc
    As others have noted that is indeed true, but officially they believe otherwise for Belarus. At least for the moment.

    Not that they mind looking ridiculous, but 'Country X is happy to have forces of Russia there' is an argument they might reflect on when they talk about NATO forces being stationed about the place.
    In fairness, I always thought that the Russians had a point when they were not allowed missiles in Cuba but the US had them in Turkey and western Europe. On one view the US position was more than a tad hypocritical.
    Well, yes, but then that's international relations for you - you can do what you can get away with.
    The strong do as they will, the weak as they must. What's hugely galling for the Russian leadership is to discover that they are now among the weak.
    On the excellent BBC documentary Barroso is critical of Obama for openly designating Russia as a regional power. He pointed out that Putin is a creature of resentment and saying things like that only exacerbated those feelings. But what were we supposed to do? Indulge his fantasies that Russia could be a global power akin to the United States and China? There is a counter argument that we should instead have been speaking home truths to him. That such superpower illusions were ludicrous, that 90% of Ukrainians had voted to leave the Soviet Union and few regretted it. That far from benefiting the all powerful west, the rules based international system acted as a restraint on it and enshrined Russia as by far the largest more resource rich country in the world. If Putin wanted to start playing around with international borders why not China with its historic claim to part of Siberia? Now of course Russia has nuclear weapons. But then what does that mean? That nuclear capability means states can act with impunity and blackmail the world. The logic of that would be mass proliferation and therefore a major weakening of Russian power. I hope someone was telling them the truth.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,749

    Time zones as threat to peace. A row in Lebanon, with the government changing the Summer time date arbitrarily and half the country defying them….

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-65079574

    Can anyone explain to me how a government decision about the time shown by clocks, can affect the actual time that the sun sets, and therefore enable Muslims to break their fast earlier?
  • TresTres Posts: 2,696
    Chris said:

    Time zones as threat to peace. A row in Lebanon, with the government changing the Summer time date arbitrarily and half the country defying them….

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-65079574

    Can anyone explain to me how a government decision about the time shown by clocks, can affect the actual time that the sun sets, and therefore enable Muslims to break their fast earlier?
    The sun sets at the same time but the clock is set to an hour earlier.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,329
    Chris said:

    Time zones as threat to peace. A row in Lebanon, with the government changing the Summer time date arbitrarily and half the country defying them….

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-65079574

    Can anyone explain to me how a government decision about the time shown by clocks, can affect the actual time that the sun sets, and therefore enable Muslims to break their fast earlier?
    Any old excuse to take offence nowadays
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,749
    kle4 said:

    Who could possibly have predicted?

    21 Маrch
    Russia & China state: “All nuclear powers must not deploy their nuclear weapons beyond their national territories & must withdraw all nuclear weapons deployed abroad.”

    25 March
    Putin states: Russia planning to station tactical nuclear weapons in Belarus.


    https://twitter.com/BBCSteveR/status/1639726926138056707?cxt=HHwWhoDRkfS8vcEtAAAA

    On the basis of:
    "Russia is not going to invade Ukraine"
    "Russia is not going to invade Ukraine"
    "Russia is not going to invade Ukraine"
    "Russia is not going to invade Ukraine"
    "Russia is not going to invade Ukraine"
    ....
    "Russia is not going to invade Ukraine"

    And then:
    "Russia invades Ukraine"

    Is there really any reason in expecting a word that comes out of Putin's mouth to be true?
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,749
    edited March 2023
    Tres said:

    Chris said:

    Time zones as threat to peace. A row in Lebanon, with the government changing the Summer time date arbitrarily and half the country defying them….

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-65079574

    Can anyone explain to me how a government decision about the time shown by clocks, can affect the actual time that the sun sets, and therefore enable Muslims to break their fast earlier?
    The sun sets at the same time but the clock is set to an hour earlier.
    I'm just trying to make sense of the BBC's report about this: "If the time remains unchanged, Muslims will be able to break their fast an hour earlier"

    Did they mean to write: "If the clocks remains unchanged, Muslims will be able to break their fast at the same time but the clocks will show a time an hour earlier"?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,388
    Chris said:

    Tres said:

    Chris said:

    Time zones as threat to peace. A row in Lebanon, with the government changing the Summer time date arbitrarily and half the country defying them….

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-65079574

    Can anyone explain to me how a government decision about the time shown by clocks, can affect the actual time that the sun sets, and therefore enable Muslims to break their fast earlier?
    The sun sets at the same time but the clock is set to an hour earlier.
    I'm just trying to make sense of the BBC's report about this: "If the time remains unchanged, Muslims will be able to break their fast an hour earlier"
    We could assume they're talking the non-sense the current poor dupe trying to run Lebanon came up with in a moment of stress and then things become simpler...
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821

    It was noticeable in Barcelona that at 9am hardly anyone stirred but at 11pm the place was buzzing. People respond to Berlin time by doing everything two hours later. Must be even more extreme out in the wild west like Corunna.

    The obvious solution to the clock problem is to work less and sleep longer in the winter and do the opposite in the summer. We all need to get in touch with our inner peasant.

    Impudent peasant!!
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,898
    ydoethur said:

    Chris said:

    Tres said:

    Chris said:

    Time zones as threat to peace. A row in Lebanon, with the government changing the Summer time date arbitrarily and half the country defying them….

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-65079574

    Can anyone explain to me how a government decision about the time shown by clocks, can affect the actual time that the sun sets, and therefore enable Muslims to break their fast earlier?
    The sun sets at the same time but the clock is set to an hour earlier.
    I'm just trying to make sense of the BBC's report about this: "If the time remains unchanged, Muslims will be able to break their fast an hour earlier"
    We could assume they're talking the non-sense the current poor dupe trying to run Lebanon came up with in a moment of stress and then things become simpler...
    Tbf it might make slightly more sense if we consider waking hours versus sleep, so the fast will be broken after X waking hours rather than X+1.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,135
    On topic: I like it that the clocks change twice a year. Life needs its senseless quirks and we'd have one less if we stopped doing this.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Chris said:

    kle4 said:

    Who could possibly have predicted?

    21 Маrch
    Russia & China state: “All nuclear powers must not deploy their nuclear weapons beyond their national territories & must withdraw all nuclear weapons deployed abroad.”

    25 March
    Putin states: Russia planning to station tactical nuclear weapons in Belarus.


    https://twitter.com/BBCSteveR/status/1639726926138056707?cxt=HHwWhoDRkfS8vcEtAAAA

    On the basis of:
    "Russia is not going to invade Ukraine"
    "Russia is not going to invade Ukraine"
    "Russia is not going to invade Ukraine"
    "Russia is not going to invade Ukraine"
    "Russia is not going to invade Ukraine"
    ....
    "Russia is not going to invade Ukraine"

    And then:
    "Russia invades Ukraine"

    Is there really any reason in expecting a word that comes out of Putin's mouth to be true?
    Same with Donald Trump. And ditto Boris Johnson.

    Three toxic peas from the same rotten pod.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,606

    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    Who could possibly have predicted?

    21 Маrch
    Russia & China state: “All nuclear powers must not deploy their nuclear weapons beyond their national territories & must withdraw all nuclear weapons deployed abroad.”

    25 March
    Putin states: Russia planning to station tactical nuclear weapons in Belarus.


    https://twitter.com/BBCSteveR/status/1639726926138056707?cxt=HHwWhoDRkfS8vcEtAAAA

    Not completely sure Russia regards Belarus as "abroad". See also Ukraine, Moldovia, Chechnya, etc etc
    As others have noted that is indeed true, but officially they believe otherwise for Belarus. At least for the moment.

    Not that they mind looking ridiculous, but 'Country X is happy to have forces of Russia there' is an argument they might reflect on when they talk about NATO forces being stationed about the place.
    In fairness, I always thought that the Russians had a point when they were not allowed missiles in Cuba but the US had them in Turkey and western Europe. On one view the US position was more than a tad hypocritical.
    Well, yes, but then that's international relations for you - you can do what you can get away with.
    The strong do as they will, the weak as they must. What's hugely galling for the Russian leadership is to discover that they are now among the weak.
    On the excellent BBC documentary Barroso is critical of Obama for openly designating Russia as a regional power. He pointed out that Putin is a creature of resentment and saying things like that only exacerbated those feelings. But what were we supposed to do? Indulge his fantasies that Russia could be a global power akin to the United States and China? There is a counter argument that we should instead have been speaking home truths to him. That such superpower illusions were ludicrous, that 90% of Ukrainians had voted to leave the Soviet Union and few regretted it. That far from benefiting the all powerful west, the rules based international system acted as a restraint on it and enshrined Russia as by far the largest more resource rich country in the world. If Putin wanted to start playing around with international borders why not China with its historic claim to part of Siberia? Now of course Russia has nuclear weapons. But then what does that mean? That nuclear capability means states can act with impunity and blackmail the world. The logic of that would be mass proliferation and therefore a major weakening of Russian power. I hope someone was telling them the truth.
    Well Gerhard Schroeder was telling them what they wanted to hear.

    And being well paid for so doing.

    He wasn't the only one either.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,749

    Chris said:

    kle4 said:

    Who could possibly have predicted?

    21 Маrch
    Russia & China state: “All nuclear powers must not deploy their nuclear weapons beyond their national territories & must withdraw all nuclear weapons deployed abroad.”

    25 March
    Putin states: Russia planning to station tactical nuclear weapons in Belarus.


    https://twitter.com/BBCSteveR/status/1639726926138056707?cxt=HHwWhoDRkfS8vcEtAAAA

    On the basis of:
    "Russia is not going to invade Ukraine"
    "Russia is not going to invade Ukraine"
    "Russia is not going to invade Ukraine"
    "Russia is not going to invade Ukraine"
    "Russia is not going to invade Ukraine"
    ....
    "Russia is not going to invade Ukraine"

    And then:
    "Russia invades Ukraine"

    Is there really any reason in expecting a word that comes out of Putin's mouth to be true?
    Same with Donald Trump. And ditto Boris Johnson.

    Three toxic peas from the same rotten pod.
    "It wasn't a party"
    "It wasn't a party"
    "It wasn't a party"
    "It wasn't a party"
    "It wasn't a party"
    ...
    "It wasn't a party"

    "Hell of a party though!"
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,267
    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    Who could possibly have predicted?

    21 Маrch
    Russia & China state: “All nuclear powers must not deploy their nuclear weapons beyond their national territories & must withdraw all nuclear weapons deployed abroad.”

    25 March
    Putin states: Russia planning to station tactical nuclear weapons in Belarus.


    https://twitter.com/BBCSteveR/status/1639726926138056707?cxt=HHwWhoDRkfS8vcEtAAAA

    Not completely sure Russia regards Belarus as "abroad". See also Ukraine, Moldovia, Chechnya, etc etc
    As others have noted that is indeed true, but officially they believe otherwise for Belarus. At least for the moment.

    Not that they mind looking ridiculous, but 'Country X is happy to have forces of Russia there' is an argument they might reflect on when they talk about NATO forces being stationed about the place.
    In fairness, I always thought that the Russians had a point when they were not allowed missiles in Cuba but the US had them in Turkey and western Europe. On one view the US position was more than a tad hypocritical.
    Well, yes, but then that's international relations for you - you can do what you can get away with.
    Even the "your own country" is not a neutral position. A vast continent-spanning country like Russia can get much more strategic benefit from a restrictive rule like "nukes only in your own country". Russia's prescription is, intentionally or not, a recipe for proliferation. Do we want a world where Poland, South Korea, Iran, and Syria have control over nuclear weapons?
    The reactors Poland is buying are quite dual use.

  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    Interesting discussion. Microsoft Bing AI chat doesn't want to talk about China's treatment of Uighurs



    https://mobile.twitter.com/SamuelBickett/status/1639737947707547657/photo/4
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,749
    FF43 said:

    Interesting discussion. Microsoft Bing AI chat doesn't want to talk about China's treatment of Uighurs



    https://mobile.twitter.com/SamuelBickett/status/1639737947707547657/photo/4

    Artificial Intelligence is not stupid (even though not very subtle either).
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,135
    biggles said:

    malcolmg said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    My Aunty used to have Nitrous Oxide when she went to the dentist. I don't know how much it is used nowadays. Is it ever given to children?

    Dentists don't administer general anesthetic in the practice these days. If Mrs DA wants to render a patient unconscious she tells them what their bill is going to be.
    Given bills I just paid for bone grafting and bridge etc for my wife I can imagine they would be out for a considerable period.
    All dentists are lying, money grabbing #####. Lots of people being talked into unnecessary procedures to line their pockets. Nationalise them and give them a salary.
    Yes, last time I went they told me I needed a filling - which I didn't.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    My suggestion for maximum lols is that we move the clocks forward 10 minutes each weekend over a period of 6 consecutive Sundays.

    Just because.

    I think we should change the clock every day so that dawn and dusk are both at 6

    Daytime "hours" would get shorter in the winter, so night-time hours longer

    A nine to five job would only take about four equinox (or "old") hours in the middle of winter, balanced with doing twelve hours in the summer

    Sundials could make a resurgence
    THat's the old style Roman hours. But it wouldn't work for sundials (because the shadows would be in the same place at 0900 and 1800 GMT, which wouldn't work for Roman hours).
    Do you think that Useless will win on the first ballot tomorrow? I suspect that he will get very few transfers from Regan so it might get close if he doesn't. I think he will end up with about 60% myself.
    To my mind it depends so much on how many of the members are from the pre-rapprochement-with-SGs era and are more likely to vote for Ms Forbes or Ms Regan. The big increase in numbers came about in the immediate aftermath of indyref1 and that was pretty much before the shift to the left and the adoption of gender politics as a figurehead policy (and, it should be said, the comcomitant jettisoning by the Tories of Mrs May's trans reform policy in order to go all wokefinding on it).

    I think if Mr Yousaf doesn't get 50% + 1 there is a good chanve that he has lost it. And I'm not sure he will manage that at all.
    Last SNP members poll had Yousaf on under 50% at 46%, Forbes was on 37% and Regan on 17%, so Regan's transfers would be decisive tomorrow.

    While Yousaf was ahead with well over 50% with SNP members under 50, SNP members 55-64 backed Forbes with 51% on the first ballot. Forbes also led Yousaf by 10% with SNP members over 65
    https://savanta.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/P029532_SNP_Members_Survey_WTD_Tables_20230302_Private-003.xlsx
    If he's in the mid to high 40s and doesn't win that could be quite entertaining. I know some of the comments in the contest have gotten pretty cutting, but people transfer their votes in some unexpected ways (I've seen many a Con-Lab or Lab-Con, or Green-Con or whatever, in some contests), so him getting next to nothing from Regan, even if that would make sense, may not occur.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705
    kinabalu said:

    On topic: I like it that the clocks change twice a year. Life needs its senseless quirks and we'd have one less if we stopped doing this.

    Think how quirky you'd look if everyone else stopped doing it but you continued, though.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    Chris said:

    kle4 said:

    Who could possibly have predicted?

    21 Маrch
    Russia & China state: “All nuclear powers must not deploy their nuclear weapons beyond their national territories & must withdraw all nuclear weapons deployed abroad.”

    25 March
    Putin states: Russia planning to station tactical nuclear weapons in Belarus.


    https://twitter.com/BBCSteveR/status/1639726926138056707?cxt=HHwWhoDRkfS8vcEtAAAA

    On the basis of:
    "Russia is not going to invade Ukraine"
    "Russia is not going to invade Ukraine"
    "Russia is not going to invade Ukraine"
    "Russia is not going to invade Ukraine"
    "Russia is not going to invade Ukraine"
    ....
    "Russia is not going to invade Ukraine"

    And then:
    "Russia invades Ukraine"

    Is there really any reason in expecting a word that comes out of Putin's mouth to be true?
    Statistically I suppose it must sometimes happen, if only by accident.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    kinabalu said:

    biggles said:

    malcolmg said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    My Aunty used to have Nitrous Oxide when she went to the dentist. I don't know how much it is used nowadays. Is it ever given to children?

    Dentists don't administer general anesthetic in the practice these days. If Mrs DA wants to render a patient unconscious she tells them what their bill is going to be.
    Given bills I just paid for bone grafting and bridge etc for my wife I can imagine they would be out for a considerable period.
    All dentists are lying, money grabbing #####. Lots of people being talked into unnecessary procedures to line their pockets. Nationalise them and give them a salary.
    Yes, last time I went they told me I needed a filling - which I didn't.
    That's interesting - how did you discover that you didn't need one?
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705
    edited March 2023
    FF43 said:

    Interesting discussion. Microsoft Bing AI chat doesn't want to talk about China's treatment of Uighurs

    From my limited playing with it last night I found that very often it would generate an answer for a specific question/topic and *then* decide it wasn't allowed to discuss that topic with you, even though you'd been able to read most of the answer before it realised that (and updated the text to say sorry).
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,749
    kle4 said:

    Chris said:

    kle4 said:

    Who could possibly have predicted?

    21 Маrch
    Russia & China state: “All nuclear powers must not deploy their nuclear weapons beyond their national territories & must withdraw all nuclear weapons deployed abroad.”

    25 March
    Putin states: Russia planning to station tactical nuclear weapons in Belarus.


    https://twitter.com/BBCSteveR/status/1639726926138056707?cxt=HHwWhoDRkfS8vcEtAAAA

    On the basis of:
    "Russia is not going to invade Ukraine"
    "Russia is not going to invade Ukraine"
    "Russia is not going to invade Ukraine"
    "Russia is not going to invade Ukraine"
    "Russia is not going to invade Ukraine"
    ....
    "Russia is not going to invade Ukraine"

    And then:
    "Russia invades Ukraine"

    Is there really any reason in expecting a word that comes out of Putin's mouth to be true?
    Statistically I suppose it must sometimes happen, if only by accident.
    Of course. It's so easy to launch an all-out invasion of a neighbouring country by accident. And it can take months - even sometimes years - before you realise you've done it.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,388
    FF43 said:

    Interesting discussion. Microsoft Bing AI chat doesn't want to talk about China's treatment of Uighurs



    https://mobile.twitter.com/SamuelBickett/status/1639737947707547657/photo/4

    Bing has been doing my head in. I tutor using Skype and it first locked me out of my account, then started spamming me with dozens of useless messages. I have deleted it.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    HYUFD said:

    Scottish Green Party leader warns the SNP "sincere commitment to progressive values cannot be an optional extra in a choice of first minister", saying instead that this was "necessity".

    Suggests the Scottish Greens will withdraw support from the SNP minority government if the SNP elect Kate Forbes their leader tomorrow
    https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/snp-leadership-greens-clearest-signal-yet-they-wouldnt-work-with-kate-forbes-4079467

    Could this bring down the Scottish government?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scottish Green Party leader warns the SNP "sincere commitment to progressive values cannot be an optional extra in a choice of first minister", saying instead that this was "necessity".

    Suggests the Scottish Greens will withdraw support from the SNP minority government if the SNP elect Kate Forbes their leader tomorrow
    https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/snp-leadership-greens-clearest-signal-yet-they-wouldnt-work-with-kate-forbes-4079467

    Could this bring down the Scottish government?
    Douglas Ross could give Forbes confidence and supply. On most other issues than the Union the Scottish Conservatives would be closer to a Forbes led SNP than Scottish Labour and the Scottish Greens
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705
    edited March 2023
    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scottish Green Party leader warns the SNP "sincere commitment to progressive values cannot be an optional extra in a choice of first minister", saying instead that this was "necessity".

    Suggests the Scottish Greens will withdraw support from the SNP minority government if the SNP elect Kate Forbes their leader tomorrow
    https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/snp-leadership-greens-clearest-signal-yet-they-wouldnt-work-with-kate-forbes-4079467

    Could this bring down the Scottish government?
    Can't see how, really - Holyrood is designed for predominantly minority government, and the SNP are still only a handful of MSPs short of majority. But might make getting the next budget through interesting.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,250

    It was noticeable in Barcelona that at 9am hardly anyone stirred but at 11pm the place was buzzing. People respond to Berlin time by doing everything two hours later. Must be even more extreme out in the wild west like Corunna.

    The obvious solution to the clock problem is to work less and sleep longer in the winter and do the opposite in the summer. We all need to get in touch with our inner peasant.

    Impudent peasant!!
    If I still had a forelock I'd tug it apologetically.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,635

    Chris said:

    kle4 said:

    Who could possibly have predicted?

    21 Маrch
    Russia & China state: “All nuclear powers must not deploy their nuclear weapons beyond their national territories & must withdraw all nuclear weapons deployed abroad.”

    25 March
    Putin states: Russia planning to station tactical nuclear weapons in Belarus.


    https://twitter.com/BBCSteveR/status/1639726926138056707?cxt=HHwWhoDRkfS8vcEtAAAA

    On the basis of:
    "Russia is not going to invade Ukraine"
    "Russia is not going to invade Ukraine"
    "Russia is not going to invade Ukraine"
    "Russia is not going to invade Ukraine"
    "Russia is not going to invade Ukraine"
    ....
    "Russia is not going to invade Ukraine"

    And then:
    "Russia invades Ukraine"

    Is there really any reason in expecting a word that comes out of Putin's mouth to be true?
    Same with Donald Trump. And ditto Boris Johnson.

    Three toxic peas from the same rotten pod.
    It's an extremely tenuous comparison. They all have completely different backgrounds, personalities and politics.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,329
    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scottish Green Party leader warns the SNP "sincere commitment to progressive values cannot be an optional extra in a choice of first minister", saying instead that this was "necessity".

    Suggests the Scottish Greens will withdraw support from the SNP minority government if the SNP elect Kate Forbes their leader tomorrow
    https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/snp-leadership-greens-clearest-signal-yet-they-wouldnt-work-with-kate-forbes-4079467

    Could this bring down the Scottish government?
    One can only hope Forbes wins and those creeps are put in with the garbage where they should be.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,220

    Chris said:

    kle4 said:

    Who could possibly have predicted?

    21 Маrch
    Russia & China state: “All nuclear powers must not deploy their nuclear weapons beyond their national territories & must withdraw all nuclear weapons deployed abroad.”

    25 March
    Putin states: Russia planning to station tactical nuclear weapons in Belarus.


    https://twitter.com/BBCSteveR/status/1639726926138056707?cxt=HHwWhoDRkfS8vcEtAAAA

    On the basis of:
    "Russia is not going to invade Ukraine"
    "Russia is not going to invade Ukraine"
    "Russia is not going to invade Ukraine"
    "Russia is not going to invade Ukraine"
    "Russia is not going to invade Ukraine"
    ....
    "Russia is not going to invade Ukraine"

    And then:
    "Russia invades Ukraine"

    Is there really any reason in expecting a word that comes out of Putin's mouth to be true?
    Same with Donald Trump. And ditto Boris Johnson.

    Three toxic peas from the same rotten pod.
    It's an extremely tenuous comparison. They all have completely different backgrounds, personalities and politics.
    But they've ended up in basically the same place. Lying incessantly to placate the tigers they have ridden to the top.

    In biology, it's called convergent evolution.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,220
    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scottish Green Party leader warns the SNP "sincere commitment to progressive values cannot be an optional extra in a choice of first minister", saying instead that this was "necessity".

    Suggests the Scottish Greens will withdraw support from the SNP minority government if the SNP elect Kate Forbes their leader tomorrow
    https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/snp-leadership-greens-clearest-signal-yet-they-wouldnt-work-with-kate-forbes-4079467

    Could this bring down the Scottish government?
    Douglas Ross could give Forbes confidence and supply. On most other issues than the Union the Scottish Conservatives would be closer to a Forbes led SNP than Scottish Labour and the Scottish Greens
    Ross could offer it, but Forbes would have to have a death wish to accept the offer, wouldn't she?
  • NEW THREAD

  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,329

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scottish Green Party leader warns the SNP "sincere commitment to progressive values cannot be an optional extra in a choice of first minister", saying instead that this was "necessity".

    Suggests the Scottish Greens will withdraw support from the SNP minority government if the SNP elect Kate Forbes their leader tomorrow
    https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/snp-leadership-greens-clearest-signal-yet-they-wouldnt-work-with-kate-forbes-4079467

    Could this bring down the Scottish government?
    Douglas Ross could give Forbes confidence and supply. On most other issues than the Union the Scottish Conservatives would be closer to a Forbes led SNP than Scottish Labour and the Scottish Greens
    Ross could offer it, but Forbes would have to have a death wish to accept the offer, wouldn't she?
    Not if it was only way to stay in power
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,329
    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scottish Green Party leader warns the SNP "sincere commitment to progressive values cannot be an optional extra in a choice of first minister", saying instead that this was "necessity".

    Suggests the Scottish Greens will withdraw support from the SNP minority government if the SNP elect Kate Forbes their leader tomorrow
    https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/snp-leadership-greens-clearest-signal-yet-they-wouldnt-work-with-kate-forbes-4079467

    Could this bring down the Scottish government?
    Douglas Ross could give Forbes confidence and supply. On most other issues than the Union the Scottish Conservatives would be closer to a Forbes led SNP than Scottish Labour and the Scottish Greens
    Ross could offer it, but Forbes would have to have a death wish to accept the offer, wouldn't she?
    Not if it was only way to stay in power
    They did specific deals when SNP were minority government before to get budgets through.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,962

    Chris said:

    kle4 said:

    Who could possibly have predicted?

    21 Маrch
    Russia & China state: “All nuclear powers must not deploy their nuclear weapons beyond their national territories & must withdraw all nuclear weapons deployed abroad.”

    25 March
    Putin states: Russia planning to station tactical nuclear weapons in Belarus.


    https://twitter.com/BBCSteveR/status/1639726926138056707?cxt=HHwWhoDRkfS8vcEtAAAA

    On the basis of:
    "Russia is not going to invade Ukraine"
    "Russia is not going to invade Ukraine"
    "Russia is not going to invade Ukraine"
    "Russia is not going to invade Ukraine"
    "Russia is not going to invade Ukraine"
    ....
    "Russia is not going to invade Ukraine"

    And then:
    "Russia invades Ukraine"

    Is there really any reason in expecting a word that comes out of Putin's mouth to be true?
    Same with Donald Trump. And ditto Boris Johnson.

    Three toxic peas from the same rotten pod.
    It's an extremely tenuous comparison. They all have completely different backgrounds, personalities and politics.
    Not dissimilar PB status though, with enthusiastic defenders transformed to stout critics afflicted with amnesia over their cheerleading phase.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,329
    jsut beat me TUD
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838

    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scottish Green Party leader warns the SNP "sincere commitment to progressive values cannot be an optional extra in a choice of first minister", saying instead that this was "necessity".

    Suggests the Scottish Greens will withdraw support from the SNP minority government if the SNP elect Kate Forbes their leader tomorrow
    https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/snp-leadership-greens-clearest-signal-yet-they-wouldnt-work-with-kate-forbes-4079467

    Could this bring down the Scottish government?
    Can't see how, really - Holyrood is designed for predominantly minority government, and the SNP are still only a handful of MSPs short of majority. But might make getting the next budget through interesting.
    SNP have neither a majority nor a minority at present, as the PO is one of the Greens.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    Foxy said:

    I see the governments response to a failing police and judicial system is to criminalise a load more ordinary youngsters experimenting with the drug of the day. Bound to help the police and courts........

    Please, please can we have left hand thinking about right hand a bit more. If we want more people to be categorised as criminals (not really sure why we should) then we need more police, lawyers, magistrates, probation officers etc too. Or decriminalise something else.

    As much as many of the police's problems are self inflicted they cannot be expected to succeed in an environment where every year more and more offences are created, laws become more complex, yet they are given no new resources.

    It all whiffs of Blairs "frogmarching yobs to the cashpoint" doesn't it?

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/mar/25/rishi-sunak-immediate-justice-scheme-to-combat-antisocial-behaviour

    I do hope that Starmer will be able to come up with some better ideas on criminal justice. Its all a bit crap at the moment.
    Fear not. The Labour Manifesto will criminalise wearing a loud shirt in a built up area...
    Certainly if the wearer is exceeding 20mph!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scottish Green Party leader warns the SNP "sincere commitment to progressive values cannot be an optional extra in a choice of first minister", saying instead that this was "necessity".

    Suggests the Scottish Greens will withdraw support from the SNP minority government if the SNP elect Kate Forbes their leader tomorrow
    https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/snp-leadership-greens-clearest-signal-yet-they-wouldnt-work-with-kate-forbes-4079467

    Could this bring down the Scottish government?
    Douglas Ross could give Forbes confidence and supply. On most other issues than the Union the Scottish Conservatives would be closer to a Forbes led SNP than Scottish Labour and the Scottish Greens
    Ross could offer it, but Forbes would have to have a death wish to accept the offer, wouldn't she?
    Not if it was only way to stay in power
    They did specific deals when SNP were minority government before to get budgets through.
    As did the other parties, except that Slab preferred to go off in a huff and vote against their own proposals.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    Dura_Ace said:

    DavidL said:

    If I could turn back time

    Betting would be a lot easier.

    I've just given a promising chap called Bill Gates his first ten thousand dollars investment....
    In 2007 I was doing some consultancy work for a guy in Burford. He was selling his 1960 Bentley Continental Drophead with really nice provenance, it had previously belonged to Terry-Thomas and latterly Lawrence Harvey, he said "it's yours for £7,000". Do I look like a Bentley kind of a guy? I saw it advertised in Motor Sport magazine some months later for £8.5k at a dealers in the New Forest. Last year an example without such an illustrious previous owner history would cost North of £300,000.

    If I could turn back time. Not a Bentley guy?
    I parted out my 993 GT2 because it got stolen, trashed and probably needed 30 or 40 grand's worth of work which I didn't feel like shelling out for at the time. So I was a bit gutted when a few sold for $1m+ some years later. Then, one went for £1.8m at Sotheby's. Granted, that was a low mileage 100 point car in a unique Porsche Exclusive Manufaktur colour but still...

    The wing is now on my polarsilber 993 slicctop though so I'm glad I never sold that.
    The guy who I use to MOT our cars had a works Mini Cooper S. It was a Monte car, but not one of the winning ones, he let it go for £2k around 15 years ago. What price now?

    If I could turn back time, I would have emptied every breakers yard of two door Mk 1 Escorts for £50 each, paid for storage and now what? £5 to £10k for a basket case. If you can tell me what automotive investment will repeat that for the next generation, I'm up for it.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,258

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    This very much tallies with my experience.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/mar/26/children-put-at-risk-as-nhs-autism-assessments-are-cut-back

    It isn't just ASD either. It is right across diagnostic services.
    Even with a diagnosis and an ECHP (a legally enforceable document, not a wishlist), there aren't the school places, or funding for staffing. And even where there is, the pay rate is making it nigh impossible to meet statutory obligations.

    That's certainly the case here. Staffordshire have quite openly redefined 'one to one support' as 'there will be a TA somewhere in the room for up to five children' because they simply cannot get enough staff.
    Adding "where possible" on to the "1 to 1 support" on risk assessments.
    You can't do that. If you are mandated and funded for 1 to 1 it's a legal requirement. And therefore needs to be paid for at the market rate. Not minimum wage.
    It's rather like saying that no one will insure my car for the laughably low price I'm prepared to pay. So I'm going to drive regardless.
    I know. And so do they. But they're not willing to do anything about it. I'm not even sure they can afford to.

    To give you some idea of how little room for manouvere they have, they advertised a job managing their social care team (repeat, managing) for £20,000 which would be reduced pro rata as it's mornings only.

    And then were surprised when they had no applicants...
    The central mystery of the current public sector pay wars.

    Suppose the government wins a non-trivial reduction in public sector pay compared with prices or the private sector.

    What do they think is going to happen next?

    (And I know, you know, we all know they don't think like that, but the question doesn't go away.)
    There seems to be a certain salary level below which market forces are assumed not to apply.
    It is important to remember that rich people need to be paid more in order to motivate them, while poor people are better motivated to work by cutting their income.
    Which is why the "Agreeing to work for a fake company for 10k a day" story is so depressingly familiar.

    Failed ministers who really think they are worth so much more than ordinaries.
    But if they are getting that sort of money then the organisations which are paying them must think they are worth it.

    So what are those organisations getting in return for the £10k per day ?

    Or perhaps the £10k per day is instead a payment for services already provided when they were in government.

    This is particularly likely among finance ministers knowing if they 'play nicely' with the financial institutions they can expect many millions in return once they leave office.
    £1,250 per hour is less than the billing rate of a lawyer at a second tier London firm.

    They are very rarely hired for a full day - it’s a couple of hours for a strategy discussion or another meeting. Or some time spent making introductions etc.

  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,135
    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    biggles said:

    malcolmg said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    My Aunty used to have Nitrous Oxide when she went to the dentist. I don't know how much it is used nowadays. Is it ever given to children?

    Dentists don't administer general anesthetic in the practice these days. If Mrs DA wants to render a patient unconscious she tells them what their bill is going to be.
    Given bills I just paid for bone grafting and bridge etc for my wife I can imagine they would be out for a considerable period.
    All dentists are lying, money grabbing #####. Lots of people being talked into unnecessary procedures to line their pockets. Nationalise them and give them a salary.
    Yes, last time I went they told me I needed a filling - which I didn't.
    That's interesting - how did you discover that you didn't need one?
    Ah yes, so nothing to see and no pain, at the time or now 18 months later.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,433
    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    My suggestion for maximum lols is that we move the clocks forward 10 minutes each weekend over a period of 6 consecutive Sundays.

    Just because.

    I think we should change the clock every day so that dawn and dusk are both at 6

    Daytime "hours" would get shorter in the winter, so night-time hours longer

    A nine to five job would only take about four equinox (or "old") hours in the middle of winter, balanced with doing twelve hours in the summer

    Sundials could make a resurgence
    THat's the old style Roman hours. But it wouldn't work for sundials (because the shadows would be in the same place at 0900 and 1800 GMT, which wouldn't work for Roman hours).
    Do you think that Useless will win on the first ballot tomorrow? I suspect that he will get very few transfers from Regan so it might get close if he doesn't. I think he will end up with about 60% myself.
    To my mind it depends so much on how many of the members are from the pre-rapprochement-with-SGs era and are more likely to vote for Ms Forbes or Ms Regan. The big increase in numbers came about in the immediate aftermath of indyref1 and that was pretty much before the shift to the left and the adoption of gender politics as a figurehead policy (and, it should be said, the comcomitant jettisoning by the Tories of Mrs May's trans reform policy in order to go all wokefinding on it).

    I think if Mr Yousaf doesn't get 50% + 1 there is a good chanve that he has lost it. And I'm not sure he will manage that at all.
    Last SNP members poll had Yousaf on under 50% at 46%, Forbes was on 37% and Regan on 17%, so Regan's transfers would be decisive tomorrow.

    While Yousaf was ahead with well over 50% with SNP members under 50, SNP members 55-64 backed Forbes with 51% on the first ballot. Forbes also led Yousaf by 10% with SNP members over 65
    https://savanta.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/P029532_SNP_Members_Survey_WTD_Tables_20230302_Private-003.xlsx
    As with the Conservative Summer 2022 leadership election, not easy to see a good outcome from those figures.
    Anything that means Useless is dumped and sent as far from any decision making as possible is an improvement.
    The betting has remained resolutely in his favour, which to me points to his team having inside info from the leaky as a seive election process. On that basis, I am expecting him to win the competition, though I would prefer Forbes.
This discussion has been closed.