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Trump now an evens chance of winning the GOP WH2024 nomination – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,002
edited March 2023 in General
imageTrump now an evens chance of winning the GOP WH2024 nomination – politicalbetting.com

The big move in US Politics of late has been back to Trump for the 2024 Republican Party nomination. At the same time, there has been a decline in the betting on the Florida governor, Ron DeSantis.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,164
    edited March 2023
    First like Arsenal.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,730
    Sadly, evens overstates it.

    I'm starting to think @Dura_Ace was right and only death will stop him from being the nominee.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,206
    Trump v Biden AGAIN

    It’s like some nightmare from which we cannot awake

    Must be even worse if you’re American
  • RunDeepRunDeep Posts: 77
    FPT

    The former CEO of Fujitsu is one Michael Keegan, husband of the Education Secretary. He is a Crown Representative in the Cabinet Office with special responsibility for managing contracts with BaE. The other company he was on the board of, Centerprise Ltd, was awarded some 17 governments contracts during 2019-20. His expertise is, according to him, in Technology, IT, Payment and Banking Services.

    Quite why someone who was in charge of a company intimately involved in and partly responsible for possibly the worst and largest miscarriage of justice in British history is in such a comfortable position when sub-postmasters are having to fight for every scrap of compensation is one to ponder.
  • Amazing 'love in' with Macron and Sunak in Paris at the start of their summit

    Johnson and Truss anti France is history as a new 'entente cordiale' begins and thank goodness for that
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,880
    ydoethur said:

    Sadly, evens overstates it.

    I'm starting to think @Dura_Ace was right and only death will stop him from being the nominee.

    The campaign is going to be the absolute fucking dirt. I can't wait. It's going to be top entertainment.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    edited March 2023
    My long shot prediction is it will end up being Biden-Buttigieg v Pence-Haley.

    Pence will get a shock win in the evangelical heavy Iowa in the caucuses and DeSantis will win New Hampshire. Trump us soon forced to drop out and mends fences with his former VP who he endorses to ensure DeSantis doesn't get the nomination.

    Biden moves Harris to State or the SC and makes Buttigieg his VP nominee instead.

    Remember the last time a President lost after only 1 term of his party in the White House, Carter in 1980, the nominee ended up being his VP Mondale in 1984 to take on President Reagan who faced similar questions on his age as Biden did but famously quipped he 'would not use his opponent's youth and inexperience against him'
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,206
    SNP down 20% in poll shocker


    NEW: Westminster Voting Intention poll (8 Mar):

    🔴 LAB: 42% (-3 from 1 Mar)
    🔵 CON: 23% (-1)
    🟢 GRN: 10% (+2)
    🟠 LDM: 8% (-1)
    🟣 RFM: 7% (=)
    🟡 SNP: 4% (-1)
  • https://twitter.com/ChrisGPackham/status/1634091562907971585

    Odd silence over Lord Sugar's rants on Twitter, also employed by the BBC.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,517

    https://twitter.com/ChrisGPackham/status/1634091562907971585

    Odd silence over Lord Sugar's rants on Twitter, also employed by the BBC.

    Or Packham's own hypocrisy and comments, for that matter. ;)
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,598
    RunDeep said:

    DavidL said:

    darkage said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Since the media don't seem to be reporting it much, here's a report about the Post Office Horizon scandal.

    "IT worker evidence reveals a toxic Post Office IT helpdesk that discriminated against subpostmasters
    IT worker tells public inquiry that the Post Office Horizon helpdesk was toxic, rudderless and racist"

    https://www.computerweekly.com/news/365532063/IT-worker-evidence-reveals-a-toxic-Post-Office-IT-helpdesk-that-discriminated-against-subpostmasters

    YouTube channel featuring videos of each day's hearings.

    https://www.youtube.com/@postofficehorizonitinquiry947/videos

    In the end, this Post office issue is why it is good to live in this country, problems like this get unearthed and eventually resolved.



    Judging by the interviews with various postmasters, the Post Office seemed quite capable of ruining the lives of WWC subpostmasters.

    Seriously - I have little doubt that such a stupidly, malevolent policy was carried out with racism, sexism, homophobia and about every prejudice they could find. Scum are like that.
    The deeply depressing thing about the human condition was that cruel indifference was enough. Nothing else required than an inability to care or empathise.
    The former CEO of Fujitsu is one Michael Keegan, husband of the Education Secretary and a Crown Representative in the Cabinet Office with special responsibility for managing contracts with BaE. The other company he was on the board of, Centerprise Ltd, was awarded some 17 governments contracts during 2019-20. His expertise is, according to him, in Technology, IT, Payment and Banking Services.

    Quite why someone who was in charge of a company intimately involved in and partly responsible for possibly the worst and largest miscarriage of justice in British history is in such a comfortable position when sub-postmasters are having to fight for every scrap of compensation is one to ponder.
    He is part of the New Upper 10,000

    Since they owe their position To Merit, they are there by divine right. Unlike their aristocratic predecessors who were just their by divine right.

    It is nothing less than their due that they receive a big payout and a better job each time they fail.

    This is not limited to this country. The career of Ursula von der Leyen is a perfect example.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,206

    https://twitter.com/ChrisGPackham/status/1634091562907971585

    Odd silence over Lord Sugar's rants on Twitter, also employed by the BBC.

    Or Packham's own hypocrisy and comments, for that matter. ;)
    Indeed. Packham really pushes it. He’s more vocal than Lineker

    I like him a lot as a nature presenter but his online presence is irksome. He’s quite badly autistic (self described as such) so he probably doesn’t realise how much he can irritate
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 2,004
    Some serious 1970s styling with that table and carpet.

    Imagine having a building as beautiful as the Elysee Palace and then filling it with chairs as ugly as this

    https://twitter.com/jrmaidment/status/1634137235174879232
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    London
    Lab 50%
    Con 19%
    Grn 13%
    LD 13%
    Ref 5%

    Rest of South
    Lab 36%
    Con 26%
    LD 13%
    Grn 11%
    Ref 7%

    Midlands and Wales
    Lab 39%
    Con 29%
    Grn 11%
    Ref 7%
    PC 5%
    LD 5%

    North
    Lab 50%
    Con 20%
    Ref 9%
    Grn 7%
    LD 3%

    Scotland
    SNP 47%
    Lab 28%
    Con 8%
    Grn 6%
    LD 6%
    Ref 3%

    (PeoplePolling/GB News; 1,231; 8 March)
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,042
    @Gardenwalker did say that the standard of modern porn had taken a nosedive.
  • @Gardenwalker did say that the standard of modern porn had taken a nosedive.
    It must hurt to see grown ups back in charge
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    Dura_Ace said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sadly, evens overstates it.

    I'm starting to think @Dura_Ace was right and only death will stop him from being the nominee.

    The campaign is going to be the absolute fucking dirt. I can't wait. It's going to be top entertainment.
    I think it was John Oliver who said in 2015, that while he didn’t want Donald Trump to be president, he really, really wanted him to run! Be careful what you wish for.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,206
    AlistairM said:

    Some serious 1970s styling with that table and carpet.

    Imagine having a building as beautiful as the Elysee Palace and then filling it with chairs as ugly as this

    https://twitter.com/jrmaidment/status/1634137235174879232

    That’s so ugly it’s like they’re making a statement

    “Go get the worst chairs possible. As an insult to our British friends”

    Alternatively they sought the smallest lowest chairs possible, so no one will notice these two men are both three foot high
  • Leon said:

    AlistairM said:

    Some serious 1970s styling with that table and carpet.

    Imagine having a building as beautiful as the Elysee Palace and then filling it with chairs as ugly as this

    https://twitter.com/jrmaidment/status/1634137235174879232

    That’s so ugly it’s like they’re making a statement

    “Go get the worst chairs possible. As an insult to our British friends”

    Alternatively they sought the smallest lowest chairs possible, so no one will notice these two men are both three foot high
    Actually they seem to be of similar stature in today's press coverage of their summit
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    ..

    ...

    Is Scottish politics undergoing a major shift?

    ➡️Labour seen more favourably (+10) than SNP (-1)
    ➡️SCon vote holding up in polls
    ➡️SNP vote dropping to 39% (-6)(GE)
    ➡️ScotGov performance net negative on all voter priorities
    ➡️Starmer has positive approval among 2019 SNP voters


    https://twitter.com/deanmthomson/status/1633834095917797379

    That is HYUFD level straw clutching. At the next GE the SNP are going to smash Starmer Labour out of the park.
    All this hatred towards SKS because he's not dumb enough to say he'll immediately overturn Brexit once in No10 and give the Tories a lifeline.
    Are you saying those people saying SKS is being economical with the actualité over his real EU intentions are correct?
    I don't think you can overturn Brexit in a single term. It needs to be demonstrably shown it's shit no matter who is running the show.
    And there we have it, Labour’s masterplan: to be so appallingly shit in government that the populace rush to clutch Brussels’ skirt tails.

    Looking at the quality of the Labour front bench, it might just work.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    So trump wins the presidency next year, cuts support for Ukraine and quits NATO. What do we do?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,042

    @Gardenwalker did say that the standard of modern porn had taken a nosedive.
    It must hurt to see grown ups back in charge
    It is quite concerning that the French are after (more) tens of millions in order to continue doing such an amazing job on the small boats, and our useless embarrassment of a PM looks so grateful to be there you can see he'll sign anything if they let him keep the pen. Which obviously they won't, but they won't tell him that.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    Jonathan said:

    So trump wins the presidency next year, cuts support for Ukraine and quits NATO. What do we do?

    Stay in NATO with most of the rest of Europe, Turkey and Canada
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,042
    Jonathan said:

    So trump wins the presidency next year, cuts support for Ukraine and quits NATO. What do we do?

    Try governing ourselves again?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709

    @Gardenwalker did say that the standard of modern porn had taken a nosedive.
    The Macron and Trudeau love ins are worse, they actually hugged and kissed

    https://www.newsweek.com/justin-trudeau-and-emmanuel-macron-reunite-paris-and-are-closest-friends-888885
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,080
    Great run from Dodger there, in the Large ABC agility
  • @Gardenwalker did say that the standard of modern porn had taken a nosedive.
    It must hurt to see grown ups back in charge
    It is quite concerning that the French are after (more) tens of millions in order to continue doing such an amazing job on the small boats, and our useless embarrassment of a PM looks so grateful to be there you can see he'll sign anything if they let him keep the pen. Which obviously they won't, but they won't tell him that.
    Such bitterness
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,522
    Sandpit said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sadly, evens overstates it.

    I'm starting to think @Dura_Ace was right and only death will stop him from being the nominee.

    The campaign is going to be the absolute fucking dirt. I can't wait. It's going to be top entertainment.
    I think it was John Oliver who said in 2015, that while he didn’t want Donald Trump to be president, he really, really wanted him to run! Be careful what you wish for.
    Some Labour MPs from 2015 could tell you a few things about that.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901

    Jonathan said:

    So trump wins the presidency next year, cuts support for Ukraine and quits NATO. What do we do?

    Try governing ourselves again?
    And if Putin then walks into Poland or the Baltic states?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709

    London
    Lab 50%
    Con 19%
    Grn 13%
    LD 13%
    Ref 5%

    Rest of South
    Lab 36%
    Con 26%
    LD 13%
    Grn 11%
    Ref 7%

    Midlands and Wales
    Lab 39%
    Con 29%
    Grn 11%
    Ref 7%
    PC 5%
    LD 5%

    North
    Lab 50%
    Con 20%
    Ref 9%
    Grn 7%
    LD 3%

    Scotland
    SNP 47%
    Lab 28%
    Con 8%
    Grn 6%
    LD 6%
    Ref 3%

    (PeoplePolling/GB News; 1,231; 8 March)

    RefUK 5 to 10% in every region of England and Wales, even London, the main difference between them and other pollsters on why they have a lower Tory voteshare
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Jonathan said:

    So trump wins the presidency next year, cuts support for Ukraine and quits NATO. What do we do?

    Fall back on the “Special Relationship” (sic).

    Ho ho.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,880
    Sandpit said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sadly, evens overstates it.

    I'm starting to think @Dura_Ace was right and only death will stop him from being the nominee.

    The campaign is going to be the absolute fucking dirt. I can't wait. It's going to be top entertainment.
    I think it was John Oliver who said in 2015, that while he didn’t want Donald Trump to be president, he really, really wanted him to run! Be careful what you wish for.
    To the very slight extent that I give a fuck and the even slighter extent to which it affects me personally I'd take Trump over Biden on grounds of comedy potential. They are both unabashed slaves of capital so we might as well have the darkly comic option.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,042
    ...
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    So trump wins the presidency next year, cuts support for Ukraine and quits NATO. What do we do?

    Try governing ourselves again?
    And if Putin then walks into Poland or the Baltic states?
    Because he's done such a great job walking into Ukraine?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    Leon said:

    https://twitter.com/ChrisGPackham/status/1634091562907971585

    Odd silence over Lord Sugar's rants on Twitter, also employed by the BBC.

    Or Packham's own hypocrisy and comments, for that matter. ;)
    Indeed. Packham really pushes it. He’s more vocal than Lineker

    I like him a lot as a nature presenter but his online presence is irksome. He’s quite badly autistic (self described as such) so he probably doesn’t realise how much he can irritate
    Packham has made some excellent autism and aspergers docs though
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,557
    The Canadian justice system is evidently vastly superior to ours.
    At least on the evidence of this decision.

    https://www.canlii.org/en/qc/qccq/doc/2023/2023qccq630/2023qccq630.html
    … To be abundantly clear, it is not a crime to give someone the finger. Flipping the proverbial bird is a God-given, Charter enshrined right that belongs to every red-blooded Canadian. It may not be civil, it may not be polite, it may not be gentlemanly.

    [169] Nevertheless, it does not trigger criminal liability. Offending someone is not a crime. It is an integral component of one’s freedom of expression. Citizens are to be thicker-skinned, especially when they behave in ways that are highly likely to trigger such profanity – like driving too fast on a street where innocent kids are playing. Being told to “fuck off” should not prompt a call to 9-1-1…

    … 174] In the modern-day vernacular, people often refer to a criminal case “being thrown out”. Obviously, this is little more than a figurative expression. Cases aren’t actually thrown out, in the literal or physical sense. Nevertheless, in the specific circumstances of this case, the Court is inclined to actually take the file and throw it out the window, which is the only way to adequately express my bewilderment with the fact that Mr. Epstein was subjected to an arrest and a fulsome criminal prosecution. Alas, the courtrooms of the Montreal courthouse do not have windows.

    [175] A mere verdict of acquittal will have to suffice.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,042

    @Gardenwalker did say that the standard of modern porn had taken a nosedive.
    It must hurt to see grown ups back in charge
    It is quite concerning that the French are after (more) tens of millions in order to continue doing such an amazing job on the small boats, and our useless embarrassment of a PM looks so grateful to be there you can see he'll sign anything if they let him keep the pen. Which obviously they won't, but they won't tell him that.
    Such bitterness
    I tend to actually care about the country, call me zany.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,080
    In the medium, the Mudi's winning run disqualified by missing the last jump; happens remarkably often.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901

    ...

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    So trump wins the presidency next year, cuts support for Ukraine and quits NATO. What do we do?

    Try governing ourselves again?
    And if Putin then walks into Poland or the Baltic states?
    Because he's done such a great job walking into Ukraine?
    Without US support for Ukraine, he might find it a little easier. Heck I would not be surprised if Trump recognised the Baltic states as part of a greater Russia.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    HYUFD said:

    London
    Lab 50%
    Con 19%
    Grn 13%
    LD 13%
    Ref 5%

    Rest of South
    Lab 36%
    Con 26%
    LD 13%
    Grn 11%
    Ref 7%

    Midlands and Wales
    Lab 39%
    Con 29%
    Grn 11%
    Ref 7%
    PC 5%
    LD 5%

    North
    Lab 50%
    Con 20%
    Ref 9%
    Grn 7%
    LD 3%

    Scotland
    SNP 47%
    Lab 28%
    Con 8%
    Grn 6%
    LD 6%
    Ref 3%

    (PeoplePolling/GB News; 1,231; 8 March)

    RefUK 5 to 10% in every region of England and Wales, even London, the main difference between them and other pollsters on why they have a lower Tory voteshare
    There is no more reason to doubt their methodology than there is to doubt Deltapoll’s methodology. But you still trumpet Deltapoll as the word of God and trash pollsters when you don’t like the findings. So very transparent.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    So trump wins the presidency next year, cuts support for Ukraine and quits NATO. What do we do?

    Try governing ourselves again?
    And if Putin then walks into Poland or the Baltic states?
    If Farage or Corbyn were our PM we would do sod all even then
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    So trump wins the presidency next year, cuts support for Ukraine and quits NATO. What do we do?

    Try governing ourselves again?
    And if Putin then walks into Poland or the Baltic states?
    If Farage or Corbyn were our PM we would do sod all even then
    What would you recommend the UK do if Putin did expand with Trump's tacit or explicit backing?
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    FUDHY is just a typical BritNat. Yoons were slagging off Redfield & Wilton last year when they published a poll showing a majority for independence.
    Oddly, they now think R&W are superb chaps. Why would that be?
    Plus ça change.

    Is that the poll done with actuarial precision by the top notch firm,Redfield&Wilton Strategies…2employees,Director Bruno Augusto Kormann Rodrigues,no office ,assets of £846 &exempt from audit.Those polling experts??Nats.You’re having a laugh,surely?

    https://twitter.com/marthasupermum/status/1598092466607263746?s=46
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,840

    RunDeep said:

    DavidL said:

    darkage said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Since the media don't seem to be reporting it much, here's a report about the Post Office Horizon scandal.

    "IT worker evidence reveals a toxic Post Office IT helpdesk that discriminated against subpostmasters
    IT worker tells public inquiry that the Post Office Horizon helpdesk was toxic, rudderless and racist"

    https://www.computerweekly.com/news/365532063/IT-worker-evidence-reveals-a-toxic-Post-Office-IT-helpdesk-that-discriminated-against-subpostmasters

    YouTube channel featuring videos of each day's hearings.

    https://www.youtube.com/@postofficehorizonitinquiry947/videos

    In the end, this Post office issue is why it is good to live in this country, problems like this get unearthed and eventually resolved.



    Judging by the interviews with various postmasters, the Post Office seemed quite capable of ruining the lives of WWC subpostmasters.

    Seriously - I have little doubt that such a stupidly, malevolent policy was carried out with racism, sexism, homophobia and about every prejudice they could find. Scum are like that.
    The deeply depressing thing about the human condition was that cruel indifference was enough. Nothing else required than an inability to care or empathise.
    The former CEO of Fujitsu is one Michael Keegan, husband of the Education Secretary and a Crown Representative in the Cabinet Office with special responsibility for managing contracts with BaE. The other company he was on the board of, Centerprise Ltd, was awarded some 17 governments contracts during 2019-20. His expertise is, according to him, in Technology, IT, Payment and Banking Services.

    Quite why someone who was in charge of a company intimately involved in and partly responsible for possibly the worst and largest miscarriage of justice in British history is in such a comfortable position when sub-postmasters are having to fight for every scrap of compensation is one to ponder.
    He is part of the New Upper 10,000

    Since they owe their position To Merit, they are there by divine right. Unlike their aristocratic predecessors who were just their by divine right.

    It is nothing less than their due that they receive a big payout and a better job each time they fail.

    This is not limited to this country. The career of Ursula von der Leyen is a perfect example.
    What about all the people in top positions who've got there on merit and aren't like this? Are they not part of the "New Upper 10,000"?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,598
    kinabalu said:

    RunDeep said:

    DavidL said:

    darkage said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Since the media don't seem to be reporting it much, here's a report about the Post Office Horizon scandal.

    "IT worker evidence reveals a toxic Post Office IT helpdesk that discriminated against subpostmasters
    IT worker tells public inquiry that the Post Office Horizon helpdesk was toxic, rudderless and racist"

    https://www.computerweekly.com/news/365532063/IT-worker-evidence-reveals-a-toxic-Post-Office-IT-helpdesk-that-discriminated-against-subpostmasters

    YouTube channel featuring videos of each day's hearings.

    https://www.youtube.com/@postofficehorizonitinquiry947/videos

    In the end, this Post office issue is why it is good to live in this country, problems like this get unearthed and eventually resolved.



    Judging by the interviews with various postmasters, the Post Office seemed quite capable of ruining the lives of WWC subpostmasters.

    Seriously - I have little doubt that such a stupidly, malevolent policy was carried out with racism, sexism, homophobia and about every prejudice they could find. Scum are like that.
    The deeply depressing thing about the human condition was that cruel indifference was enough. Nothing else required than an inability to care or empathise.
    The former CEO of Fujitsu is one Michael Keegan, husband of the Education Secretary and a Crown Representative in the Cabinet Office with special responsibility for managing contracts with BaE. The other company he was on the board of, Centerprise Ltd, was awarded some 17 governments contracts during 2019-20. His expertise is, according to him, in Technology, IT, Payment and Banking Services.

    Quite why someone who was in charge of a company intimately involved in and partly responsible for possibly the worst and largest miscarriage of justice in British history is in such a comfortable position when sub-postmasters are having to fight for every scrap of compensation is one to ponder.
    He is part of the New Upper 10,000

    Since they owe their position To Merit, they are there by divine right. Unlike their aristocratic predecessors who were just their by divine right.

    It is nothing less than their due that they receive a big payout and a better job each time they fail.

    This is not limited to this country. The career of Ursula von der Leyen is a perfect example.
    What about all the people in top positions who've got there on merit and aren't like this? Are they not part of the "New Upper 10,000"?
    There are people like that?

    Who won't take the better job and the pile of money as a reward for abject failure?

    If you can find one, Diogenes can put down his lantern at long, long, last.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 4,199
    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    So trump wins the presidency next year, cuts support for Ukraine and quits NATO. What do we do?

    Stay in NATO with most of the rest of Europe, Turkey and Canada
    Trump didn't leave NATO last time, can't see him doing it next time either, if he gets elected. But does Canada stay in if the US leaves? It's not as if Europe is going to declare war on the US if it then invades Canada, is it? So presumably Canada would be more interested in having bilateral treaty with US.

    I can see Trump abandoning Ukraine though. Either that or a nuclear first strike on Russia.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,080
    Classic takes the lead with a clear run, fast at 27 seconds
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,880
    Who knows what the demented piece of shit will do but I don't think DJT is that arsed about NATO. In the Woodward books it was the US military presence in South Korea that really fucked him off. Unless they can come up with the goods on Biden (any Biden will do) Ukraine can look forward to getting gaped.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,557
    Jonathan said:

    ...

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    So trump wins the presidency next year, cuts support for Ukraine and quits NATO. What do we do?

    Try governing ourselves again?
    And if Putin then walks into Poland or the Baltic states?
    Because he's done such a great job walking into Ukraine?
    Without US support for Ukraine, he might find it a little easier. Heck I would not be surprised if Trump recognised the Baltic states as part of a greater Russia.
    The latest intelligence estimate is that it’s possible Russia might be able to sustain its current campaign for as much as two years. Without US support, it’s highly unlikely Ukraine could.

    Trump in the WH would see the rest of Europe looking at copying Poland’s 4-5% GDP defence spending.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,753
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    So trump wins the presidency next year, cuts support for Ukraine and quits NATO. What do we do?

    Try governing ourselves again?
    And if Putin then walks into Poland or the Baltic states?
    He would get his arse kicked. Post Ukraine he will no longer have a functioning army for at least a decade. Which is an interesting context for the article @Nigelb linked to in the last thread: what is the British army for?
  • twistedfirestopper3twistedfirestopper3 Posts: 2,059
    edited March 2023
    It's fantastic, isn't? 360 million people, one of the richest nations in the world, a global military and tech superpower....and you get a choice of Biden or Trump to run the place. As Dura says, comedy value alone is worth the threat of chaos!
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Leon said:

    Trump v Biden AGAIN

    It’s like some nightmare from which we cannot awake

    Must be even worse if you’re American

    PB, casual sex, drug abuse, STDs, paranoia, brothels and boring everyone to death are the nightmares from which you cannot awake.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    edited March 2023
    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sadly, evens overstates it.

    I'm starting to think @Dura_Ace was right and only death will stop him from being the nominee.

    The campaign is going to be the absolute fucking dirt. I can't wait. It's going to be top entertainment.
    I think it was John Oliver who said in 2015, that while he didn’t want Donald Trump to be president, he really, really wanted him to run! Be careful what you wish for.
    To the very slight extent that I give a fuck and the even slighter extent to which it affects me personally I'd take Trump over Biden on grounds of comedy potential. They are both unabashed slaves of capital so we might as well have the darkly comic option.
    OT. Calling Dura Ace What do you know of a Harley Davidson 'Napalm'? Or is the Napalm just a name to personalise it? One's arrived next to my 125 Honda and it hasn't moved for weeks.Though immaculate it looks quite ancient.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,080
    Bobe the Mudi just misses the first place time and comes in second
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    DavidL said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    So trump wins the presidency next year, cuts support for Ukraine and quits NATO. What do we do?

    Try governing ourselves again?
    And if Putin then walks into Poland or the Baltic states?
    He would get his arse kicked. Post Ukraine he will no longer have a functioning army for at least a decade. Which is an interesting context for the article @Nigelb linked to in the last thread: what is the British army for?
    Easy peasy: crushing rebellious Scots.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,557
    edited March 2023
    DavidL said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    So trump wins the presidency next year, cuts support for Ukraine and quits NATO. What do we do?

    Try governing ourselves again?
    And if Putin then walks into Poland or the Baltic states?
    He would get his arse kicked. Post Ukraine he will no longer have a functioning army for at least a decade. Which is an interesting context for the article @Nigelb linked to in the last thread: what is the British army for?
    That rather depends on how this year goes.
    In any event, Ukraine’s likely fate will be decided well before November next year.

    And again, it’s not impossible for Russia to rebuild its forces within five, not ten years. Given the right circumstances (Trump lifting sanctions, for example).
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,341
    "One must have a heart of stone not to laugh"

    Monbiot learns to read character, but a little late in the day.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/mar/10/russell-brand-politics-public-figures-responsibility
  • @Gardenwalker did say that the standard of modern porn had taken a nosedive.
    It must hurt to see grown ups back in charge
    It is quite concerning that the French are after (more) tens of millions in order to continue doing such an amazing job on the small boats, and our useless embarrassment of a PM looks so grateful to be there you can see he'll sign anything if they let him keep the pen. Which obviously they won't, but they won't tell him that.
    Such bitterness
    I tend to actually care about the country, call me zany.
    In that case you should support closer relationships with France and Europe and accept Truss was an unmitigated disaster for the country and conservative party
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709

    DavidL said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    So trump wins the presidency next year, cuts support for Ukraine and quits NATO. What do we do?

    Try governing ourselves again?
    And if Putin then walks into Poland or the Baltic states?
    He would get his arse kicked. Post Ukraine he will no longer have a functioning army for at least a decade. Which is an interesting context for the article @Nigelb linked to in the last thread: what is the British army for?
    Easy peasy: crushing rebellious Scots.
    Protecting the Falklands and Gibraltar.

    Plus taking part in UN and NATO operations
  • @Gardenwalker did say that the standard of modern porn had taken a nosedive.
    It must hurt to see grown ups back in charge
    It is quite concerning that the French are after (more) tens of millions in order to continue doing such an amazing job on the small boats, and our useless embarrassment of a PM looks so grateful to be there you can see he'll sign anything if they let him keep the pen. Which obviously they won't, but they won't tell him that.
    Such bitterness
    I tend to actually care about the country, call me zany.
    In that case you should support closer relationships with France and Europe and accept Truss was an unmitigated disaster for the country and conservative party
    You supported Truss.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    edited March 2023
    Jonathan said:

    So trump wins the presidency next year, cuts support for Ukraine and quits NATO. What do we do?

    What we should have been doing for the last seven decades. Arming Europe sufficiently to keep the bear sleeping.

    Instead, we have relied heavily on the US, who are now looking to the East rather than the West, and the bear is awake and angry.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    edited March 2023
    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    So trump wins the presidency next year, cuts support for Ukraine and quits NATO. What do we do?

    Stay in NATO with most of the rest of Europe, Turkey and Canada
    Trump didn't leave NATO last time, can't see him doing it next time either, if he gets elected. But does Canada stay in if the US leaves? It's not as if Europe is going to declare war on the US if it then invades Canada, is it? So presumably Canada would be more interested in having bilateral treaty with US.

    I can see Trump abandoning Ukraine though. Either that or a nuclear first strike on Russia.
    Of course Canada stays in NATO. Russia is closer to Canada than it is to the UK for starters!

    You do seem to have forgotten however the US invaded Canada in the War of 1812 and the Canadians pushed them back only with support from Britain
  • DavidL said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    So trump wins the presidency next year, cuts support for Ukraine and quits NATO. What do we do?

    Try governing ourselves again?
    And if Putin then walks into Poland or the Baltic states?
    He would get his arse kicked. Post Ukraine he will no longer have a functioning army for at least a decade. Which is an interesting context for the article @Nigelb linked to in the last thread: what is the British army for?
    Easy peasy: crushing rebellious Scots.
    Dead easy. Only around 42% of Scots are currently rebellious and most of them will either be pissed, high or out campaigning for more wokery, so I reckon a bunch of local TA could quell them🤡
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,557
    edited March 2023
    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    So trump wins the presidency next year, cuts support for Ukraine and quits NATO. What do we do?

    Try governing ourselves again?
    And if Putin then walks into Poland or the Baltic states?
    He would get his arse kicked. Post Ukraine he will no longer have a functioning army for at least a decade. Which is an interesting context for the article @Nigelb linked to in the last thread: what is the British army for?
    Easy peasy: crushing rebellious Scots.
    Protecting the Falklands and Gibraltar.

    Plus taking part in UN and NATO operations
    The army is largely irrelevant to protecting the Falklands. The protection of Gibraltar is largely irrelevant, too.

    And “taking part in NATO operations” doesn’t determine what aspects of its capabilities we decide to fund. It’s rather the other way around.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,243
    Nigelb said:

    The Canadian justice system is evidently vastly superior to ours.
    At least on the evidence of this decision.

    https://www.canlii.org/en/qc/qccq/doc/2023/2023qccq630/2023qccq630.html
    … To be abundantly clear, it is not a crime to give someone the finger. Flipping the proverbial bird is a God-given, Charter enshrined right that belongs to every red-blooded Canadian. It may not be civil, it may not be polite, it may not be gentlemanly.

    [169] Nevertheless, it does not trigger criminal liability. Offending someone is not a crime. It is an integral component of one’s freedom of expression. Citizens are to be thicker-skinned, especially when they behave in ways that are highly likely to trigger such profanity – like driving too fast on a street where innocent kids are playing. Being told to “fuck off” should not prompt a call to 9-1-1…

    … 174] In the modern-day vernacular, people often refer to a criminal case “being thrown out”. Obviously, this is little more than a figurative expression. Cases aren’t actually thrown out, in the literal or physical sense. Nevertheless, in the specific circumstances of this case, the Court is inclined to actually take the file and throw it out the window, which is the only way to adequately express my bewilderment with the fact that Mr. Epstein was subjected to an arrest and a fulsome criminal prosecution. Alas, the courtrooms of the Montreal courthouse do not have windows.

    [175] A mere verdict of acquittal will have to suffice.

    I hadn't realised prosecutions were still in the name of the crown over there. Makes sense, I guess, with KCIII head of state, but it still stood out to me.

    I'd be mighty pissed if the King of Canada (if there was such a thing*) prosecuted me for flipping the bird in the UK. Will KCIII be done for wasting court time? :wink:

    *Yes, I know, there is - KCIII - but you get what I mean, hopefully
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,880
    edited March 2023
    Roger said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sadly, evens overstates it.

    I'm starting to think @Dura_Ace was right and only death will stop him from being the nominee.

    The campaign is going to be the absolute fucking dirt. I can't wait. It's going to be top entertainment.
    I think it was John Oliver who said in 2015, that while he didn’t want Donald Trump to be president, he really, really wanted him to run! Be careful what you wish for.
    To the very slight extent that I give a fuck and the even slighter extent to which it affects me personally I'd take Trump over Biden on grounds of comedy potential. They are both unabashed slaves of capital so we might as well have the darkly comic option.
    OT. Calling Dura Ace What do you know of a Harley Davidson 'Napalm'? Or is the Napalm just a name to personalise it? One's arrived next to my 125 Honda and it hasn't moved for weeks.Though immaculate it looks quite ancient.

    Not a Harley model. Just some arsehole with limited imagination and faulty sense of aesthetics.

    I have a Harley Pan America and love it. It's got an Akrapovic can and link pipe on it to annoy Leon.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    So trump wins the presidency next year, cuts support for Ukraine and quits NATO. What do we do?

    Try governing ourselves again?
    And if Putin then walks into Poland or the Baltic states?
    He would get his arse kicked. Post Ukraine he will no longer have a functioning army for at least a decade. Which is an interesting context for the article @Nigelb linked to in the last thread: what is the British army for?
    Easy peasy: crushing rebellious Scots.
    Protecting the Falklands and Gibraltar.

    Plus taking part in UN and NATO operations
    The British Empire going out in a whimper.
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 2,004
    algarkirk said:

    "One must have a heart of stone not to laugh"

    Monbiot learns to read character, but a little late in the day.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/mar/10/russell-brand-politics-public-figures-responsibility

    What Monbiot means is that he loved him when he agreed with him. Now that he doesn't agree with him, he has changed his view!
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Petronella Wyatt, former mistress of Boris Johnson and another Spectator scumbag, is making a total arse of herself. Again.

    https://twitter.com/petronellawyatt/status/1633779516559466497?s=46
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    So trump wins the presidency next year, cuts support for Ukraine and quits NATO. What do we do?

    Try governing ourselves again?
    And if Putin then walks into Poland or the Baltic states?
    If Farage or Corbyn were our PM we would do sod all even then
    What would you recommend the UK do if Putin did expand with Trump's tacit or explicit backing?
    What NATO as a whole decides to do
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,243
    Sandpit said:

    Jonathan said:

    So trump wins the presidency next year, cuts support for Ukraine and quits NATO. What do we do?

    What we should have been doing for the last seven decades. Arming Europe sufficiently to keep the bear sleeping.

    Instead, we have relied heavily on the US, who are now looking to the East rather than the West, and the bear is awake and angry.
    I get what you mean, I think, but it takes some parsing (due to US location). They're looking west to The East rather than east to The West, right?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,262
    Ukraine need not fear, Trump will not beat Biden.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,840

    kinabalu said:

    RunDeep said:

    DavidL said:

    darkage said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Since the media don't seem to be reporting it much, here's a report about the Post Office Horizon scandal.

    "IT worker evidence reveals a toxic Post Office IT helpdesk that discriminated against subpostmasters
    IT worker tells public inquiry that the Post Office Horizon helpdesk was toxic, rudderless and racist"

    https://www.computerweekly.com/news/365532063/IT-worker-evidence-reveals-a-toxic-Post-Office-IT-helpdesk-that-discriminated-against-subpostmasters

    YouTube channel featuring videos of each day's hearings.

    https://www.youtube.com/@postofficehorizonitinquiry947/videos

    In the end, this Post office issue is why it is good to live in this country, problems like this get unearthed and eventually resolved.



    Judging by the interviews with various postmasters, the Post Office seemed quite capable of ruining the lives of WWC subpostmasters.

    Seriously - I have little doubt that such a stupidly, malevolent policy was carried out with racism, sexism, homophobia and about every prejudice they could find. Scum are like that.
    The deeply depressing thing about the human condition was that cruel indifference was enough. Nothing else required than an inability to care or empathise.
    The former CEO of Fujitsu is one Michael Keegan, husband of the Education Secretary and a Crown Representative in the Cabinet Office with special responsibility for managing contracts with BaE. The other company he was on the board of, Centerprise Ltd, was awarded some 17 governments contracts during 2019-20. His expertise is, according to him, in Technology, IT, Payment and Banking Services.

    Quite why someone who was in charge of a company intimately involved in and partly responsible for possibly the worst and largest miscarriage of justice in British history is in such a comfortable position when sub-postmasters are having to fight for every scrap of compensation is one to ponder.
    He is part of the New Upper 10,000

    Since they owe their position To Merit, they are there by divine right. Unlike their aristocratic predecessors who were just their by divine right.

    It is nothing less than their due that they receive a big payout and a better job each time they fail.

    This is not limited to this country. The career of Ursula von der Leyen is a perfect example.
    What about all the people in top positions who've got there on merit and aren't like this? Are they not part of the "New Upper 10,000"?
    There are people like that?

    Who won't take the better job and the pile of money as a reward for abject failure?

    If you can find one, Diogenes can put down his lantern at long, long, last.
    C'mon, ultra-cynicism and naivety are two cheeks on the same arse.

    There are plenty of people in top jobs who got them on merit, work hard, have ethics, do not abjectly fail, and if they did would not expect to be rewarded for it, of course there are. And my question - a serious one since I want to know what you're on about with this - is are these good ones in top jobs pukka members of your New Upper 10,000?

    Or can you only be in the New Upper 10,000 if you're one of the bad 'abjectly fail and expect reward for it' ones?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,598
    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    So trump wins the presidency next year, cuts support for Ukraine and quits NATO. What do we do?

    Try governing ourselves again?
    And if Putin then walks into Poland or the Baltic states?
    He would get his arse kicked. Post Ukraine he will no longer have a functioning army for at least a decade. Which is an interesting context for the article @Nigelb linked to in the last thread: what is the British army for?
    That rather depends on how this year goes.
    In any event, Ukraine’s likely fate will be decided well before November next year.

    And again, it’s not impossible for Russia to rebuild its forces within five, not ten years. Given the right circumstances (Trump lifting sanctions, for example).
    hat would also require dealing with the rampant corruption within the Russian armed forces procurement chain. Given that the previous head of the defence ministry was sacked for upsetting too many people with his instance on some kind of relationship between money paid and weapons delivered.....
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    Selebian said:

    Sandpit said:

    Jonathan said:

    So trump wins the presidency next year, cuts support for Ukraine and quits NATO. What do we do?

    What we should have been doing for the last seven decades. Arming Europe sufficiently to keep the bear sleeping.

    Instead, we have relied heavily on the US, who are now looking to the East rather than the West, and the bear is awake and angry.
    I get what you mean, I think, but it takes some parsing (due to US location). They're looking west to The East rather than east to The West, right?
    Trump may be more pro Putin and less pro Zelensky than Biden but
    Trump is even more pro Taiwan and anti Xi's China than Biden is
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    So trump wins the presidency next year, cuts support for Ukraine and quits NATO. What do we do?

    Try governing ourselves again?
    And if Putin then walks into Poland or the Baltic states?
    He would get his arse kicked. Post Ukraine he will no longer have a functioning army for at least a decade. Which is an interesting context for the article @Nigelb linked to in the last thread: what is the British army for?
    Easy peasy: crushing rebellious Scots.
    Protecting the Falklands and Gibraltar.

    Plus taking part in UN and NATO operations
    The British Empire going out in a whimper.
    Bit like the SNP post Sturgeon!!!
  • kamskikamski Posts: 4,199
    HYUFD said:

    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    So trump wins the presidency next year, cuts support for Ukraine and quits NATO. What do we do?

    Stay in NATO with most of the rest of Europe, Turkey and Canada
    Trump didn't leave NATO last time, can't see him doing it next time either, if he gets elected. But does Canada stay in if the US leaves? It's not as if Europe is going to declare war on the US if it then invades Canada, is it? So presumably Canada would be more interested in having bilateral treaty with US.

    I can see Trump abandoning Ukraine though. Either that or a nuclear first strike on Russia.
    Of course Canada stays in NATO. Russia is closer to Canada than it is to the UK for starters!

    You do seem to have forgotten however the US invaded Canada in the War of 1812 and the Canadians pushed them back only with support from Britain
    I don't think Russia is closer to Canada than the to the UK.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,279
    DavidL said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    So trump wins the presidency next year, cuts support for Ukraine and quits NATO. What do we do?

    Try governing ourselves again?
    And if Putin then walks into Poland or the Baltic states?
    He would get his arse kicked. Post Ukraine he will no longer have a functioning army for at least a decade. Which is an interesting context for the article @Nigelb linked to in the last thread: what is the British army for?
    Protecting us from dictators in Europe invading other countries when the British Army are not training, deployed on UN peace keeping duties or providing humanitarian aid, just a thought.....
  • @Gardenwalker did say that the standard of modern porn had taken a nosedive.
    It must hurt to see grown ups back in charge
    It is quite concerning that the French are after (more) tens of millions in order to continue doing such an amazing job on the small boats, and our useless embarrassment of a PM looks so grateful to be there you can see he'll sign anything if they let him keep the pen. Which obviously they won't, but they won't tell him that.
    Such bitterness
    I tend to actually care about the country, call me zany.
    In that case you should support closer relationships with France and Europe and accept Truss was an unmitigated disaster for the country and conservative party
    You supported Truss.
    In what way did I support Truss, I have supported Sunak long before Truss's six weeks of disasters

    As a matter of interest do you support my comments abovr

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    Selebian said:

    Sandpit said:

    Jonathan said:

    So trump wins the presidency next year, cuts support for Ukraine and quits NATO. What do we do?

    What we should have been doing for the last seven decades. Arming Europe sufficiently to keep the bear sleeping.

    Instead, we have relied heavily on the US, who are now looking to the East rather than the West, and the bear is awake and angry.
    I get what you mean, I think, but it takes some parsing (due to US location). They're looking west to The East rather than east to The West, right?
    Yes. The US focus is moving towards China, Taiwan and Asia in general, and away from NATO. They’re not going to leave NATO, but European countries will need to be more self-sufficient militarily. As we’ve seen in the past year, stocks of weapons can quickly become depleted once an actual war starts.

    Or, to put it another way, the bear that worries the US most at the moment is Winnie The Pooh.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,598
    edited March 2023
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    RunDeep said:

    DavidL said:

    darkage said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Since the media don't seem to be reporting it much, here's a report about the Post Office Horizon scandal.

    "IT worker evidence reveals a toxic Post Office IT helpdesk that discriminated against subpostmasters
    IT worker tells public inquiry that the Post Office Horizon helpdesk was toxic, rudderless and racist"

    https://www.computerweekly.com/news/365532063/IT-worker-evidence-reveals-a-toxic-Post-Office-IT-helpdesk-that-discriminated-against-subpostmasters

    YouTube channel featuring videos of each day's hearings.

    https://www.youtube.com/@postofficehorizonitinquiry947/videos

    In the end, this Post office issue is why it is good to live in this country, problems like this get unearthed and eventually resolved.



    Judging by the interviews with various postmasters, the Post Office seemed quite capable of ruining the lives of WWC subpostmasters.

    Seriously - I have little doubt that such a stupidly, malevolent policy was carried out with racism, sexism, homophobia and about every prejudice they could find. Scum are like that.
    The deeply depressing thing about the human condition was that cruel indifference was enough. Nothing else required than an inability to care or empathise.
    The former CEO of Fujitsu is one Michael Keegan, husband of the Education Secretary and a Crown Representative in the Cabinet Office with special responsibility for managing contracts with BaE. The other company he was on the board of, Centerprise Ltd, was awarded some 17 governments contracts during 2019-20. His expertise is, according to him, in Technology, IT, Payment and Banking Services.

    Quite why someone who was in charge of a company intimately involved in and partly responsible for possibly the worst and largest miscarriage of justice in British history is in such a comfortable position when sub-postmasters are having to fight for every scrap of compensation is one to ponder.
    He is part of the New Upper 10,000

    Since they owe their position To Merit, they are there by divine right. Unlike their aristocratic predecessors who were just their by divine right.

    It is nothing less than their due that they receive a big payout and a better job each time they fail.

    This is not limited to this country. The career of Ursula von der Leyen is a perfect example.
    What about all the people in top positions who've got there on merit and aren't like this? Are they not part of the "New Upper 10,000"?
    There are people like that?

    Who won't take the better job and the pile of money as a reward for abject failure?

    If you can find one, Diogenes can put down his lantern at long, long, last.
    C'mon, ultra-cynicism and naivety are two cheeks on the same arse.

    There are plenty of people in top jobs who got them on merit, work hard, have ethics, do not abjectly fail, and if they did would not expect to be rewarded for it, of course there are. And my question - a serious one since I want to know what you're on about with this - is are these good ones in top jobs pukka members of your New Upper 10,000?

    Or can you only be in the New Upper 10,000 if you're one of the bad 'abjectly fail and expect reward for it' ones?
    It's an interesting question. They are part of the same Gilded Class. They are subject to the same privileges. How many actually take responsibility for the manifest failures we see? Apart from a token apology and some performative theatre.

    If we want to deal with some the structural issues we talk about in this country, it will require not shuffling the failures in circles.

    EDIT: It rather resembles the question of Starmer under Corbyn. These people sit on the boards, and watch as the guilty are praised, the innocent punished and uninvolved rewarded. Yet they do not speak out. Why?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,753

    DavidL said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    So trump wins the presidency next year, cuts support for Ukraine and quits NATO. What do we do?

    Try governing ourselves again?
    And if Putin then walks into Poland or the Baltic states?
    He would get his arse kicked. Post Ukraine he will no longer have a functioning army for at least a decade. Which is an interesting context for the article @Nigelb linked to in the last thread: what is the British army for?
    Easy peasy: crushing rebellious Scots.
    There seems to be fewer of them every day Stuart.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    So trump wins the presidency next year, cuts support for Ukraine and quits NATO. What do we do?

    Stay in NATO with most of the rest of Europe, Turkey and Canada
    Trump didn't leave NATO last time, can't see him doing it next time either, if he gets elected. But does Canada stay in if the US leaves? It's not as if Europe is going to declare war on the US if it then invades Canada, is it? So presumably Canada would be more interested in having bilateral treaty with US.

    I can see Trump abandoning Ukraine though. Either that or a nuclear first strike on Russia.
    Of course Canada stays in NATO. Russia is closer to Canada than it is to the UK for starters!

    You do seem to have forgotten however the US invaded Canada in the War of 1812 and the Canadians pushed them back only with support from Britain
    I don't think Russia is closer to Canada than the to the UK.
    The Bering Straits between Russia and Alaska are just 82km wide and Alaska's land border is with northern Canada
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,522
    Nigelb said:

    The Canadian justice system is evidently vastly superior to ours.
    At least on the evidence of this decision.

    https://www.canlii.org/en/qc/qccq/doc/2023/2023qccq630/2023qccq630.html
    … To be abundantly clear, it is not a crime to give someone the finger. Flipping the proverbial bird is a God-given, Charter enshrined right that belongs to every red-blooded Canadian. It may not be civil, it may not be polite, it may not be gentlemanly.

    [169] Nevertheless, it does not trigger criminal liability. Offending someone is not a crime. It is an integral component of one’s freedom of expression. Citizens are to be thicker-skinned, especially when they behave in ways that are highly likely to trigger such profanity – like driving too fast on a street where innocent kids are playing. Being told to “fuck off” should not prompt a call to 9-1-1…

    … 174] In the modern-day vernacular, people often refer to a criminal case “being thrown out”. Obviously, this is little more than a figurative expression. Cases aren’t actually thrown out, in the literal or physical sense. Nevertheless, in the specific circumstances of this case, the Court is inclined to actually take the file and throw it out the window, which is the only way to adequately express my bewilderment with the fact that Mr. Epstein was subjected to an arrest and a fulsome criminal prosecution. Alas, the courtrooms of the Montreal courthouse do not have windows.

    [175] A mere verdict of acquittal will have to suffice.

    What a ruling, littered with gems. Here's another:

    [8] For reasons explained below, the Court is resoundingly acquitting the accused. Since I’m hesitant to draft an entire decision in bold and caps-lock characters, I offer the following observations instead.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,753
    fitalass said:

    DavidL said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    So trump wins the presidency next year, cuts support for Ukraine and quits NATO. What do we do?

    Try governing ourselves again?
    And if Putin then walks into Poland or the Baltic states?
    He would get his arse kicked. Post Ukraine he will no longer have a functioning army for at least a decade. Which is an interesting context for the article @Nigelb linked to in the last thread: what is the British army for?
    Protecting us from dictators in Europe invading other countries when the British Army are not training, deployed on UN peace keeping duties or providing humanitarian aid, just a thought.....
    It was an interesting article, definitely worth a read.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,042

    @Gardenwalker did say that the standard of modern porn had taken a nosedive.
    It must hurt to see grown ups back in charge
    It is quite concerning that the French are after (more) tens of millions in order to continue doing such an amazing job on the small boats, and our useless embarrassment of a PM looks so grateful to be there you can see he'll sign anything if they let him keep the pen. Which obviously they won't, but they won't tell him that.
    Such bitterness
    I tend to actually care about the country, call me zany.
    In that case you should support closer relationships with France and Europe and accept Truss was an unmitigated disaster for the country and conservative party
    If I thought there was some magical way where being a craven supplicant and money sponge to everyone, and never taking a tough decision or upsetting any foreign politician or NGO was a great route to national success, I would gladly get behind it as a strategy.

    The EU fees from the UK have stopped. This leaves the EU with a budget problem. The massive fines we coughed up for importing things from China (or something) will tide them over for a while, but they will need some form of wheeze. Sunak will do his best to oblige. His own brand of rigid fiscal responsibility only seems to apply when considering tax cuts for the UK.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,960
    Nigelb said:

    The Canadian justice system is evidently vastly superior to ours.
    At least on the evidence of this decision.

    https://www.canlii.org/en/qc/qccq/doc/2023/2023qccq630/2023qccq630.html
    … To be abundantly clear, it is not a crime to give someone the finger. Flipping the proverbial bird is a God-given, Charter enshrined right that belongs to every red-blooded Canadian. It may not be civil, it may not be polite, it may not be gentlemanly.

    [169] Nevertheless, it does not trigger criminal liability. Offending someone is not a crime. It is an integral component of one’s freedom of expression. Citizens are to be thicker-skinned, especially when they behave in ways that are highly likely to trigger such profanity – like driving too fast on a street where innocent kids are playing. Being told to “fuck off” should not prompt a call to 9-1-1…

    … 174] In the modern-day vernacular, people often refer to a criminal case “being thrown out”. Obviously, this is little more than a figurative expression. Cases aren’t actually thrown out, in the literal or physical sense. Nevertheless, in the specific circumstances of this case, the Court is inclined to actually take the file and throw it out the window, which is the only way to adequately express my bewilderment with the fact that Mr. Epstein was subjected to an arrest and a fulsome criminal prosecution. Alas, the courtrooms of the Montreal courthouse do not have windows.

    [175] A mere verdict of acquittal will have to suffice.

    Maybe, but apparently their police forces (and crown prosecutors?) are even more petty, heavy handed and insistent on doing anything other than their actual jobs, than ours.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    DavidL said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    So trump wins the presidency next year, cuts support for Ukraine and quits NATO. What do we do?

    Try governing ourselves again?
    And if Putin then walks into Poland or the Baltic states?
    He would get his arse kicked. Post Ukraine he will no longer have a functioning army for at least a decade. Which is an interesting context for the article @Nigelb linked to in the last thread: what is the British army for?
    Easy peasy: crushing rebellious Scots.
    Dead easy. Only around 42% of Scots are currently rebellious and most of them will either be pissed, high or out campaigning for more wokery, so I reckon a bunch of local TA could quell them🤡
    The entire TA (outwith Scotland) is approx 30,000. How exactly are they going to invade and occupy Scotland, pop approx 5.5 million?
  • DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    So trump wins the presidency next year, cuts support for Ukraine and quits NATO. What do we do?

    Try governing ourselves again?
    And if Putin then walks into Poland or the Baltic states?
    He would get his arse kicked. Post Ukraine he will no longer have a functioning army for at least a decade. Which is an interesting context for the article @Nigelb linked to in the last thread: what is the British army for?
    Easy peasy: crushing rebellious Scots.
    There seems to be fewer of them every day Stuart.
    It looks like they are doing an excellent job of that between themselves to be fair

    Difficult days for @StuartDickson not only in the civil war in the SNP but Sweden being the worse performing country in the EU
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,955
    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    So trump wins the presidency next year, cuts support for Ukraine and quits NATO. What do we do?

    Try governing ourselves again?
    And if Putin then walks into Poland or the Baltic states?
    He would get his arse kicked. Post Ukraine he will no longer have a functioning army for at least a decade. Which is an interesting context for the article @Nigelb linked to in the last thread: what is the British army for?
    Easy peasy: crushing rebellious Scots.
    Protecting the Falklands and Gibraltar.

    Plus taking part in UN and NATO operations
    The army is largely irrelevant to protecting the Falklands. The protection of Gibraltar is largely irrelevant, too.

    And “taking part in NATO operations” doesn’t determine what aspects of its capabilities we decide to fund. It’s rather the other way around.
    Someone in NATO has to make decent tea....
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,880
    Nigelb said:


    Trump in the WH would see the rest of Europe looking at copying Poland’s 4-5% GDP defence spending.

    Great news for the US economy.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    Endillion said:

    Nigelb said:

    The Canadian justice system is evidently vastly superior to ours.
    At least on the evidence of this decision.

    https://www.canlii.org/en/qc/qccq/doc/2023/2023qccq630/2023qccq630.html
    … To be abundantly clear, it is not a crime to give someone the finger. Flipping the proverbial bird is a God-given, Charter enshrined right that belongs to every red-blooded Canadian. It may not be civil, it may not be polite, it may not be gentlemanly.

    [169] Nevertheless, it does not trigger criminal liability. Offending someone is not a crime. It is an integral component of one’s freedom of expression. Citizens are to be thicker-skinned, especially when they behave in ways that are highly likely to trigger such profanity – like driving too fast on a street where innocent kids are playing. Being told to “fuck off” should not prompt a call to 9-1-1…

    … 174] In the modern-day vernacular, people often refer to a criminal case “being thrown out”. Obviously, this is little more than a figurative expression. Cases aren’t actually thrown out, in the literal or physical sense. Nevertheless, in the specific circumstances of this case, the Court is inclined to actually take the file and throw it out the window, which is the only way to adequately express my bewilderment with the fact that Mr. Epstein was subjected to an arrest and a fulsome criminal prosecution. Alas, the courtrooms of the Montreal courthouse do not have windows.

    [175] A mere verdict of acquittal will have to suffice.

    Maybe, but apparently their police forces (and crown prosecutors?) are even more petty, heavy handed and insistent on doing anything other than their actual jobs, than ours.
    Not to mention the lorry driver protestors, who had bank accounts shut down and credit cards cancelled.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    So trump wins the presidency next year, cuts support for Ukraine and quits NATO. What do we do?

    Try governing ourselves again?
    And if Putin then walks into Poland or the Baltic states?
    He would get his arse kicked. Post Ukraine he will no longer have a functioning army for at least a decade. Which is an interesting context for the article @Nigelb linked to in the last thread: what is the British army for?
    Easy peasy: crushing rebellious Scots.
    Protecting the Falklands and Gibraltar.

    Plus taking part in UN and NATO operations
    The British Empire going out in a whimper.
    Bit like the SNP post Sturgeon!!!
    SNP 47%
    Lab 28%
    Con 8%
    Grn 6%
    LD 6%
    Ref 3%

    (PeoplePolling/GB News; 1,231; 8 March)

    Tories in single figures and the SNP near 50%, after 15 years in government and eleven election victories in a row.

    The lack of self-awareness is stunning.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,557
    edited March 2023
    fitalass said:

    DavidL said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    So trump wins the presidency next year, cuts support for Ukraine and quits NATO. What do we do?

    Try governing ourselves again?
    And if Putin then walks into Poland or the Baltic states?
    He would get his arse kicked. Post Ukraine he will no longer have a functioning army for at least a decade. Which is an interesting context for the article @Nigelb linked to in the last thread: what is the British army for?
    Protecting us from dictators in Europe invading other countries when the British Army are not training, deployed on UN peace keeping duties or providing humanitarian aid, just a thought.....
    That’s not the question the article is asking.
    As the article points out, we have some hard choices about what capabilities we can afford to fund within the budget constraints.
    … In 2021, the Ministry of Defence’s command paper stated: ‘The Army will be designed to operate globally on a persistent basis.’ Such talk has faded since February 2022. Within months of Russia’s onslaught on Kyiv, General Sanders emphasised that Europe would now be the army’s ‘singular focus’.

    Lacking a clear sense of purpose would be less of a problem if the British Army could still field a full suite of capabilities. After all, defence spending is akin to an expensive insurance premium. The UK armed forces have long tried to maintain their status as a ‘tier one’ military, able to deter or tackle any threat – from non-state actors to peer adversaries. The British Army has traditionally prided itself as a ‘reference army’ for many allies and partners. Yet, after decades of falling defence spending (in relative terms), the decision not to specialise seems questionable at best and negligent at worst. For years, the army has traded mass for the promise of better technology (for example, the Ajax reconnaissance vehicle) and has now reached a critical point where it cannot meaningfully do it all…


    We simply can’t afford a full suite of capabilities without doubling what we spend on defence.
    We’ve pretended that we can for the last decade, but as equipment obsoletes, or gets used in Ukraine, we’ve reached the point we have to make those choices.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,042
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    So trump wins the presidency next year, cuts support for Ukraine and quits NATO. What do we do?

    Try governing ourselves again?
    And if Putin then walks into Poland or the Baltic states?
    He would get his arse kicked. Post Ukraine he will no longer have a functioning army for at least a decade. Which is an interesting context for the article @Nigelb linked to in the last thread: what is the British army for?
    Easy peasy: crushing rebellious Scots.
    There seems to be fewer of them every day Stuart.
    Perhaps history will repeat itself and another Stuart will quit his comfortable life on the continent to come and rally the troops.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 4,199
    HYUFD said:

    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    So trump wins the presidency next year, cuts support for Ukraine and quits NATO. What do we do?

    Stay in NATO with most of the rest of Europe, Turkey and Canada
    Trump didn't leave NATO last time, can't see him doing it next time either, if he gets elected. But does Canada stay in if the US leaves? It's not as if Europe is going to declare war on the US if it then invades Canada, is it? So presumably Canada would be more interested in having bilateral treaty with US.

    I can see Trump abandoning Ukraine though. Either that or a nuclear first strike on Russia.
    Of course Canada stays in NATO. Russia is closer to Canada than it is to the UK for starters!

    You do seem to have forgotten however the US invaded Canada in the War of 1812 and the Canadians pushed them back only with support from Britain
    I don't think Russia is closer to Canada than the to the UK.
    The Bering Straits between Russia and Alaska are just 82km wide and Alaska's land border is with northern Canada
    According to this
    https://distancecalculator.globefeed.com/Distance_Between_Countries_Result.asp?fromplace=Russia&toplace=Canada

    The shortest distance between Canada and Russia is 1253 km.
    And between the UK and Russia is 1198 km.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,557
    Endillion said:

    Nigelb said:

    The Canadian justice system is evidently vastly superior to ours.
    At least on the evidence of this decision.

    https://www.canlii.org/en/qc/qccq/doc/2023/2023qccq630/2023qccq630.html
    … To be abundantly clear, it is not a crime to give someone the finger. Flipping the proverbial bird is a God-given, Charter enshrined right that belongs to every red-blooded Canadian. It may not be civil, it may not be polite, it may not be gentlemanly.

    [169] Nevertheless, it does not trigger criminal liability. Offending someone is not a crime. It is an integral component of one’s freedom of expression. Citizens are to be thicker-skinned, especially when they behave in ways that are highly likely to trigger such profanity – like driving too fast on a street where innocent kids are playing. Being told to “fuck off” should not prompt a call to 9-1-1…

    … 174] In the modern-day vernacular, people often refer to a criminal case “being thrown out”. Obviously, this is little more than a figurative expression. Cases aren’t actually thrown out, in the literal or physical sense. Nevertheless, in the specific circumstances of this case, the Court is inclined to actually take the file and throw it out the window, which is the only way to adequately express my bewilderment with the fact that Mr. Epstein was subjected to an arrest and a fulsome criminal prosecution. Alas, the courtrooms of the Montreal courthouse do not have windows.

    [175] A mere verdict of acquittal will have to suffice.

    Maybe, but apparently their police forces (and crown prosecutors?) are even more petty, heavy handed and insistent on doing anything other than their actual jobs, than ours.
    Yes, but TBF, the complainant seems to have lied extensively to get them to arrest the defendant.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,880
    HYUFD said:

    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    So trump wins the presidency next year, cuts support for Ukraine and quits NATO. What do we do?

    Stay in NATO with most of the rest of Europe, Turkey and Canada
    Trump didn't leave NATO last time, can't see him doing it next time either, if he gets elected. But does Canada stay in if the US leaves? It's not as if Europe is going to declare war on the US if it then invades Canada, is it? So presumably Canada would be more interested in having bilateral treaty with US.

    I can see Trump abandoning Ukraine though. Either that or a nuclear first strike on Russia.
    Of course Canada stays in NATO. Russia is closer to Canada than it is to the UK for starters!

    You do seem to have forgotten however the US invaded Canada in the War of 1812 and the Canadians pushed them back only with support from Britain
    Canada will do whatever the US tells them to do as NORAD is more important to them, by a very long way, than NATO. I can't imagine DJT even knows that Canada are in NATO so he probably wouldn't give a fuck if they stayed in.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,557
    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:


    Trump in the WH would see the rest of Europe looking at copying Poland’s 4-5% GDP defence spending.

    Great news for the US economy.
    Or South Korea’s, or Germany’s.
This discussion has been closed.